Council Planning

12:12All right, good afternoon everyone.

12:14It is Tuesday, December 10th, 2024.

12:17It is three o'clock.

12:18We do have regrets from Councillor Richardson

12:21and Gibson today.

12:24But with that, I'll just call the meeting to order.

12:27And right off the top, just looking to see

12:30if there's any disclosure of pecuniary interest

12:32or any general nature there for the items

12:35in front of us for closed session.

12:39I don't hear or see any, oh, I'm so sorry.

12:43I will go to Councillor Caron, please.

12:47Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

12:48Item 7.2, 37 Christy Lane.

12:52My employer has tied funding for that project

12:56to future student housing.

12:58So I'll be declaring a conflict.

13:00I believe I had previously submitted documents.

13:03So let me know if I need to resubmit.

13:07Okay, thank you.

13:08I was only asking for the closed items.

13:11So we're not quite there for the open,

13:14but it's okay.

13:15You've preemptively told us, so that's good.

13:17I'll say it out loud again to make sure everyone knows.

13:20We start the open session at four.

13:22So maybe I'll just have you go through the rigmarole again

13:25just so it's captured properly for you, okay?

13:27But yeah, nothing on the closed, I don't think, from anybody.

13:31Okay, I am going to just read what the title is,

13:36which is 201 Elmira Road, South Ontario Land Tribunal Update.

13:42And that is going to be under section 239,

13:462E and F of the Municipal Act regarding litigation

13:50or potential litigation, including matters

13:52before administrative tribunals,

13:54affecting the municipality or local board,

13:56and advice that is subject to solicitor-client privilege,

13:59including communications necessary for that purpose.

14:02Would someone be willing to move that for me?

14:04Bousatil and Ault will move to go in closed.

14:08Is anyone against that?

14:11Nobody?

14:11We'll go into closed then quickly,

14:13and I'll do a high-level review and summary when we come out.

14:16Thank you very much.

1:08:56All right, good afternoon, everyone.

1:08:57I'd like to call the meeting to order.

1:08:59It is Tuesday, December the 10th, 2024.

1:09:01It is four o'clock.

1:09:03And just before we go right into the open session agenda,

1:09:07as I normally do, I just want to bring about the summary

1:09:11and the high-level summary from the closed session.

1:09:13So we did move into a closed session earlier tonight,

1:09:17and it was only on one item, 201 Elmira Road South,

1:09:21Ontario Land Tribunal.

1:09:23So we did receive information on that item from our staff,

1:09:27and then we did give direction to our staff on that item.

1:09:31And that was all that was discussed

1:09:33and talked about in closed session.

1:09:35And so with that, that gives the wrap-up

1:09:37of the closed session summary.

1:09:39And now, if you are able, please stand

1:09:41as we recognize our national anthem.

1:11:12Thank you.

1:11:13Just a moment of silent reflection.

1:11:26Thank you so much now for our territorial acknowledgement.

1:11:30As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege

1:11:33to live and work here in Guelph, a city that's built

1:11:35over rich indigenous histories.

1:11:37We're guests here, and we should reflect

1:11:39upon the responsibility to care for this land

1:11:42and the people who live here today

1:11:43and the generations to come.

1:11:45For actions today, can move us towards reconciliation.

1:11:48We should take pause and make those decisions

1:11:50with intention and gratitude.

1:11:52This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands

1:11:55and a place of refuge for many people over time,

1:11:58but more specifically, the Anwaranarok

1:12:00and the Honanashoni.

1:12:02This land is held as the treaty lands and the territory

1:12:04with the Mississaucas of the Credit First Nation.

1:12:07And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track

1:12:10and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds

1:12:12for the Six Nations of the Grand River.

1:12:14Many First Nations Inuit and Métis people

1:12:16who have come from across Turtle Island

1:12:18called Guelph Home today.

1:12:20And with that, thank you so much,

1:12:21and we'll continue on with asking

1:12:24if there's any disclosure of pecuniary interest

1:12:27or any general nature thereof.

1:12:29I believe Councillor Corrine wanted to jump in on that.

1:12:32So I'll turn it over to you.

1:12:34Yes, thank you.

1:12:34Just consistency on 7.2, 37, Christy Lane.

1:12:40My employer has tied funding to that project

1:12:43to student housing, so I'll be declaring a conflict.

1:12:50Okay, great, thank you.

1:12:52With that actually being in the agenda,

1:12:54Councillor Corrine, as the last item in the agenda,

1:12:57I guess you might be able to just, if you need to,

1:13:00you can, yeah, lucky you, I see the smile.

1:13:03We all see the smile.

1:13:04Yeah, that could be the end of it for you.

1:13:06Have a good night if we get to there.

1:13:08Thank you so much with that disclosure.

1:13:10I see and hear nobody else, so I'll keep moving along.

1:13:14We have a consent agenda, everybody.

1:13:17The first one being 106 Cardin Street.

1:13:22It's the objection to notice of intention

1:13:24to designate 106 Cardin Street,

1:13:27dated October 8th, 2024.

1:13:30From Kristine, I'm sorry if I'm saying this wrong,

1:13:33Uchiyama of LHC Heritage Planning and Archeology Inc.

1:13:37on behalf of the property owner,

1:13:39which is Master's Choice Capital Inc. to be received,

1:13:43and that the designation bylaw,

1:13:454106 Cardin Street be approved.

1:13:48Does anyone need that pulled?

1:13:51Hearing and seeing none.

1:13:53How about somebody look to move that for me?

1:13:56I'll go here, Councillor O'Rourke.

1:14:00I'll go to my left here.

1:14:02Councillor Busuttil will second that,

1:14:04and I'll call the vote.

1:14:05Is anyone against that consent item?

1:14:09Hearing and seeing none, that's unanimous.

1:14:11Thank you so much.

1:14:13We are jumping right into the public meeting

1:14:15to hear applications under section 1734 and 51

1:14:20of the Planning Act under item 6.1.

1:14:25This is a decision report,

1:14:29which is of the permitting of four dwelling units

1:14:31on a lot city initiated zoning bylaw amendment.

1:14:35We're gonna start with a couple of staff presentations

1:14:38just to set the stage,

1:14:41or since we're talking about building to set the foundation,

1:14:43I'll just do a little dad joke there for everybody.

1:14:46Set the foundation for what we're gonna talk about.

1:14:49And then we have one delegation as well

1:14:53and a couple pieces of correspondence.

1:14:55So why don't I turn it over to staff?

1:14:58To both Kuscha Matthews, our development advisor,

1:15:02Katie Nazbader is our senior development planner.

1:15:06I'll turn it over to you,

1:15:09and you can walk everyone through

1:15:11what we're looking at here for this item.

1:15:12Thank you very much.

1:15:26All right, so thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:15:31Hello, Mayor Guthrie and members of Council.

1:15:34We are here today to present four decision,

1:15:37the recommended zoning regulations to enable four units

1:15:41on low density residential lots citywide.

1:15:45On this particular item,

1:15:46we were last year on April 9th

1:15:48for the statutory public meeting

1:15:50where the draft regulations were presented.

1:16:03Before we get into the recommended regulations

1:16:05and some of the changes that have been made since April

1:16:07to take into consideration public feedback,

1:16:10let's quickly go over a few details.

1:16:13Right now, through provincial direction and legislation

1:16:16provided in November of 2022 through Bill 23

1:16:19and embedded within our comprehensive zoning bylaw,

1:16:22that is currently under appeal.

1:16:24Three units as of right are permitted.

1:16:28In a scan of trends around three units as of right,

1:16:31uptake has been limited.

1:16:34Our approach to these recommended regulations

1:16:37is to balance the low density character

1:16:39of existing neighborhoods

1:16:41through maintaining what is currently permitted

1:16:43for residential buildings through setbacks

1:16:46and height requirements,

1:16:48while also enabling more units to fit

1:16:50within the existing building envelopes.

1:16:54As of right, does not mean that units can be built

1:16:57without first demonstrating adequate stormwater,

1:17:01water and wastewater services.

1:17:04Enabling the potential for more housing

1:17:07where existing housing already exists

1:17:10is one way to use the land that we have

1:17:12with them in our boundary more efficiently.

1:17:15Not everyone who lives on a lot

1:17:18that could support additional units

1:17:20will choose to build them.

1:17:23However, removing one barrier,

1:17:25like going through a zone change,

1:17:27is one way to support accelerating the creation

1:17:30of housing supply and why it is linked

1:17:34to a commitment made through the Housing Accelerator Fund.

1:17:38In addition, more recently,

1:17:41the federal government has indicated

1:17:43that to be able to apply for future housing enabling funding,

1:17:46like the $6 billion Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund,

1:17:51only municipalities that have legalized

1:17:54and implemented four units are eligible to apply.

1:17:59This means the bylaw must be enforced in effect

1:18:01by spring of 2025.

1:18:08So, providing a more flexible environment

1:18:11in which to build additional dwelling units, or ADUs,

1:18:14is only one tool in our toolbox.

1:18:17It is not the solution to the housing affordability crisis.

1:18:21However, there are many reasons

1:18:24why ADUs offer exciting possibilities.

1:18:27ADUs are an affordable housing option.

1:18:30They generate rental income to help cover mortgage payments

1:18:34or simply make ends meet.

1:18:37ADUs are age-friendly.

1:18:39New construction ADUs, or fourplexes,

1:18:41can be created with universal design features,

1:18:44such as zero-step entrances and doorways, hallways,

1:18:48and bathrooms that are accessible

1:18:50to people with mobility differences.

1:18:53ADUs are able to house people of all ages.

1:18:58They offer young people entry-level housing choices.

1:19:02They enable families to expand beyond their primary home.

1:19:07And they provide empty nesters

1:19:08the option of moving into a smaller space

1:19:11within a neighborhood they are comfortable

1:19:13while renting out the larger house.

1:19:17ADUs can be just the right size.

1:19:20Generally measuring between 600 to 800 square meters,

1:19:24or square feet, sorry, ADUs work well

1:19:28for the one and two bedroom homes

1:19:30needed by today's smaller households,

1:19:33which now account for a larger portion

1:19:36of households in North America.

1:19:38And finally, ADUs are community-compatible.

1:19:42They offer a way to include smaller,

1:19:45relatively affordable homes in established neighborhoods

1:19:48without addition to an area of sprawl.

1:19:53So again, just coming back to the Housing Accelerator Fund

1:19:57initiatives, this is one of eight overall initiatives.

1:19:59It falls into initiative number six,

1:20:02which is encouraging missing middle across our city.

1:20:08So a few of the proposed changes included

1:20:10in the Recommended Stoning Bylaw Amendment

1:20:12are an introduction or introducing a definition

1:20:15for four plex, which would apply to a building

1:20:18consisting of four units on a single lot.

1:20:21It also speaks to permitting a maximum of three ADUs

1:20:25on a lot with a single detached primary dwelling

1:20:28to result in a maximum of four units per lot.

1:20:33It also introduces an approach to parking,

1:20:35such that for an ADU, one space is required

1:20:38for the first unit within additional space

1:20:41required for each of the third and fourth units.

1:20:45For a four plex, then, one space per dwelling unit

1:20:48is required to a maximum of three spaces.

1:20:53We're also introducing new ways to configure ADUs

1:20:56within the building envelope.

1:21:01So what could this look like?

1:21:03This is consideration of unit configurations,

1:21:06and they could include, they could include others,

1:21:08but these are some of the examples.

1:21:10They could include four units in a building,

1:21:12either as a four plex, or as a primary dwelling unit

1:21:17with three ADUs.

1:21:19They could be three units in the primary dwelling unit

1:21:22and one ADU in a separate building.

1:21:28Or they could be two units in the primary dwelling unit

1:21:31and two ADUs in a separate building

1:21:34as one two-story unit.

1:21:41So again, I just want you to focus on the top row here.

1:21:44I'll go to the second row in a minute,

1:21:46but the top row here is just images

1:21:48of another way of showing this.

1:21:49So the top row shows a four plex on a mid-block parcel,

1:21:54and then a four plex on a corner lot.

1:21:58For these images, this could be a primary dwelling

1:22:04with two internal ADUs and one detached dwelling.

1:22:08While the image on the right is a primary dwelling

1:22:12with one internal ADU and two detached stacked ADUs.

1:22:26So as we've shared before,

1:22:29wealth has approximately 40,000 lots

1:22:32and 32,000 of them are zoned low density.

1:22:37Without changing anything in our current zoning bylaw,

1:22:40four units could be supported

1:22:42on approximately 11,100 of these lots.

1:22:47With the added flexibility

1:22:49in the recommended zoning bylaw amendment,

1:22:51this could increase to approximately 14,250 lots,

1:22:56so approximately 3,100 units.

1:23:01The majority of this increased flexibility

1:23:04can be contributed to reducing the parking

1:23:07by one required space,

1:23:09which is a middle of the road approach

1:23:11when compared against other municipalities

1:23:14that have already legalized four units.

1:23:17And one of those municipalities that went through

1:23:20was last night with the city of Waterloo,

1:23:21where they also took a three parking space approach.

1:23:28Of the lots that could support four units,

1:23:30a very small percentage could be severed

1:23:33where each of these severed lots

1:23:34could then also support four units.

1:23:42We also wanted to show these maps side by side

1:23:44to illustrate where four units

1:23:46could most likely be accommodated.

1:23:48So the one on the left is showing

1:23:50where gentle density is currently happening

1:23:52with the darker being where it's more prominent.

1:23:56And the one on the right shows

1:23:57where it could most likely be accommodated.

1:24:00And what we really wanted to point out here

1:24:02is that it's very clear that it is dispersed across the city

1:24:06and not tied to only one or two specific neighborhoods.

1:24:14These are some renderings that our consultants

1:24:16also prepared for us in terms of showing

1:24:19what a fourplex could look like,

1:24:21what's called mid-blocks,

1:24:22so sort of put into an existing neighborhood.

1:24:25So here it is.

1:24:26And here's what one way it could be divided

1:24:29into four different units,

1:24:30so two on the main and two on the upper floors.

1:24:37This is a fourplex on a corner lot.

1:24:40And again, showing one way that it could be divided,

1:24:43again, two on the main and two units on the upper floors.

1:24:47It could be various other ways

1:24:48that could be divided as well to create four units.

1:24:54These are some examples of existing dwellings in Guelph

1:24:58in terms of either ADUs or triplexes or fourplexes

1:25:01on the top left.

1:25:02Or as if there are two main units,

1:25:05there are two units in the main dwelling

1:25:08and one detached ADU in the back.

1:25:10The one on the top right is a triplex in Guelph

1:25:13and the one down below in the middle

1:25:15is a existing fourplex in Guelph.

1:25:20In terms of a few more images just for renderings

1:25:22of what this could look like,

1:25:24this is showing on the left,

1:25:26you can see sort of the main dwelling

1:25:28where there could be one internal ADU.

1:25:31And then in the backyard,

1:25:33you could see that there are two detached ADUs

1:25:36that are stacked.

1:25:37There's one on the main and one on the upper floor.

1:25:43In terms of this, this is also,

1:25:45again, there could be one primary dwelling,

1:25:48two internal ADUs in the main dwelling

1:25:52and then one detached ADU in the backyard.

1:25:55That is two levels.

1:25:56This could also be one level as well.

1:25:58These are just examples of what you possibly could see.

1:26:04And finally, for my part,

1:26:05before I hand it over to Katie,

1:26:07these are some existing ADUs in Guelph,

1:26:10detached ADUs in Guelph,

1:26:12showing on the left a single story ADU in the backyard,

1:26:17again, with still trees surrounding it.

1:26:20In the middle and the right

1:26:22are also detached ADUs in the backyard.

1:26:25And now I'm gonna hand it over to Katie

1:26:27to get into a bit more specifics.

1:26:38Thank you, good afternoon everyone.

1:26:43I'm going to be highlighting some key aspects

1:26:46of the proposed planning applications

1:26:48to achieve four units on a lot,

1:26:50either through four plexes or by permitting

1:26:52up to three additional dwelling units on a property.

1:26:56This presentation and report are also part

1:26:59of a statutory public meeting

1:27:00for a city-initiated official plan amendment.

1:27:03Following the initial zoning review in public meeting,

1:27:06it was confirmed that an official plan amendment

1:27:09is needed for an official plan policy

1:27:12that was adopted through OPA 88

1:27:14to allow three units on a lot

1:27:16in keeping with bill 23.

1:27:19Policy 9325, it states that the maximum net density

1:27:25set out in policy 9323 does not apply

1:27:30to multiple unit residential buildings

1:27:33with three dwelling units or less.

1:27:36And similarly, that policy 9323 does not apply

1:27:42to multiple unit residential buildings

1:27:43with three dwelling units or less.

1:27:45So those two policies both need to be updated

1:27:48where it says three to say four now

1:27:51so that four units were not measuring density

1:27:55on individual lots essentially.

1:27:57So that is an administrative change

1:27:58that we need to make through this amendment.

1:28:03In terms of the proposed zoning by law amendment,

1:28:05I'm going to highlight the key areas of change

1:28:08we're recommending to allow up to four units

1:28:10through four plexes or up to three ADUs.

1:28:14I'll also note that there are a couple of errors

1:28:17in attachment two of the report,

1:28:19which is meant to highlight the proposed changes

1:28:21to the zoning by law.

1:28:23Specifically, it still says that semi-detached duplex

1:28:26and triplex dwellings would permit ADUs up to four units,

1:28:30but we're actually not recommending changes to those.

1:28:33That's a carryover from the public meeting.

1:28:36And so those changes are already reflected

1:28:40in the existing by-law that's proposed today.

1:28:43So by-law 2024-21024 in the agenda

1:28:49does set out the correct wording,

1:28:51but we wanted to highlight that there was an error there.

1:28:57In terms of parking, as was already highlighted by Kushla,

1:29:01the staff continued to recommend

1:29:04a reduced parking requirement for ADUs and four plexes,

1:29:07requiring three spaces for four plexes

1:29:10and one space less than the number of ADUs as well.

1:29:14So requiring still a parking space

1:29:16for the main dwelling unit, none for the second,

1:29:20and then a space again for a third or fourth unit

1:29:23if those were built as well.

1:29:25Trying to increase the flexibility

1:29:28and accommodate up to another 3,000 properties,

1:29:32having the ability to accommodate four units

1:29:35just by that change alone.

1:29:47Not good at switching slides ever.

1:29:49Thank you.

1:29:51In terms of height, there are no changes

1:29:54to the overall building heights being made,

1:29:56both for four plexes and houses with ADUs.

1:30:00As the same as single detached dwellings,

1:30:04all are permitted to be up to three stories at night.

1:30:07The one change for detached ADUs,

1:30:11they're currently permitted to be 6.1 meters

1:30:13if they're over a garage.

1:30:15And we're recommending that this height

1:30:17apply more broadly to detached ADUs,

1:30:20allowing them to be two stories in height as of right,

1:30:23up to 6.1 meters.

1:30:26Through additional, and there's also additional regulations

1:30:29that have been added to require a greater setback

1:30:33if there's a two-story unit with a window or door

1:30:37or balcony facing a property line.

1:30:40So increasing the setback to address concerns

1:30:43about privacy and overlook.

1:30:52There was also a question about

1:30:56what three stories looks like at its maximum height.

1:31:01And if I can change the slide, thank you.

1:31:06Including the ultimate height, any single detached

1:31:11or low density lot could be really,

1:31:14including a basement and a peak roof and three full stories.

1:31:18And our consultants were able to illustrate that

1:31:20with this diagram.

1:31:23It illustrates the type of built form

1:31:24that could be accommodated on any low density lot.

1:31:27And that's whether the built form is already allowed

1:31:30through a single detached dwelling as a foreplex

1:31:33or as a main dwelling with ADUs.

1:31:37So this is kind of the already allowed height.

1:31:41And that would also be permitted for a foreplex.

1:31:48And here's kind of how it's divided again.

1:31:50Potentially as a foreplex, though,

1:31:52there's many different ways to divide these lots,

1:31:55to divide units on the lot

1:31:56within the existing permitted building envelope.

1:32:03And since public meeting, there have been two key changes

1:32:06proposed related to ADUs.

1:32:08First, that four units on a lot

1:32:10would be limited to single detached lots.

1:32:14Semi detached on street, town, duplex and triplex

1:32:17would continue to be limited to three units on a lot,

1:32:20which is the current permission.

1:32:22This change is based on concerns we heard

1:32:24through the community engagement

1:32:26and our lot analysis that indicated

1:32:29the minimum lot size and frontage

1:32:31of semi-detached dwellings limited the number

1:32:34that could accommodate four units.

1:32:36Staff's recommendation to focus on four units

1:32:39on single detached lots at this time

1:32:42is intended to be a more incremental and cautious approach

1:32:44to allowing four units on a lot,

1:32:47given the concerns raised by the public,

1:32:49and the ability to meet all the standard zoning

1:32:53regulations on the smallest and narrow list

1:32:55of low density lots.

1:33:02Staff are also recommending that up to two ADUs

1:33:05be permitted in the rear yard,

1:33:07but they must be contained in the same building,

1:33:09whereas at the initial public meeting,

1:33:12two separate buildings were considered.

1:33:14This change addresses concerns about overbuilding

1:33:17in the rear yard, concerns about tree protection,

1:33:22and limiting the overall footprint of the detached ADU.

1:33:32Thank you.

1:33:34Staff continue to recommend that ADUs

1:33:36no longer be restricted by size in the main dwelling,

1:33:39but rather by the overall size

1:33:40of the main building envelope.

1:33:44We also recommend that detached ADUs

1:33:47be limited in size to 80 square meters apiece,

1:33:51and that the number of bedrooms

1:33:52continues to no longer be regulated by the zoning by-law,

1:33:55but rather by the building code.

1:34:02The recommended zoning and official plan amendments

1:34:05would permit four units on a lot,

1:34:06and the additional zoning regulation changes

1:34:09related to reduced parking would provide flexibility

1:34:12to allow approximately 3,000 more lots across the city,

1:34:18and to be able to achieve that four units.

1:34:21These recommendations are in line

1:34:23with federal direction on housing

1:34:24and the city's commitment to permitting four units

1:34:27under the $21 million half agreement,

1:34:31and implementation of these regulations

1:34:33would also make the city eligible

1:34:34for more recent Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund funding,

1:34:39which is a $6 billion potential fund

1:34:41aimed at key infrastructure projects

1:34:43needed to support new housing supply.

1:34:46We're happy to answer any questions you may have.

1:34:49With us today are the leads from our consulting team,

1:34:52Ute, Maya, Gia, Matista, and Cameron Parkin

1:34:55from O2 Planning and Design,

1:34:57and they're also available to answer any questions

1:34:59related to the background report

1:35:01and the recommendations we have before you.

1:35:03Thank you.

1:35:06Thank you to staff for your presentations.

1:35:09We appreciate it.

1:35:10We do have one delegation in regards to this.

1:35:13Is Mary Kate Greig here?

1:35:18Yes, come on down.

1:35:30Welcome.

1:35:31Yeah, thank you for coming.

1:35:33Yeah, the green light is on on the microphone there.

1:35:36You have no more than five minutes if you need it.

1:36:10You good?

1:36:11I'm gonna rewind.

1:36:12Okay.

1:36:13About 10 seconds.

1:36:14Not you.

1:36:16You have 10 minutes.

1:36:18Up to 10 minutes if you need it.

1:36:20And you'll hear a chime at the nine minute and 30 second mark,

1:36:24which would be a warning that your time is almost up

1:36:27if you need it, okay?

1:36:28And is that because I was going to speak about two things?

1:36:33Nope, just on this one item, you have up to 10.

1:36:35Okay, great.

1:36:36Okay, I apologize.

1:36:38I thought it was only up to five.

1:36:40But it's...

1:36:41I don't think I want to tell you.

1:36:42I wanna make sure I do it.

1:36:42Yeah, that's okay.

1:36:43So I'll turn it over to you.

1:36:44You go right ahead.

1:36:45Great, thanks.

1:36:47So thank you for allowing me this space.

1:36:51My name is Mary Kate Craig.

1:36:53I'm part of the Junction Village Community Land Trust

1:36:56and also part of the Junction Village Gualph,

1:37:00which is an urban intentional community here in Gualph.

1:37:04For a long time, we would joke about everything

1:37:07that we were envisioning.

1:37:09We wanted to do it.

1:37:10The Junction Village was illegal.

1:37:13So we applaud what is happening

1:37:16and the direction that things are moving in.

1:37:19We are very thankful that a lot of what we are now envisioning

1:37:25is actually in line with what we will be allowed to do.

1:37:30So thank you for moving in that direction.

1:37:34What we are committed to doing at the Junction Village

1:37:37is to creating spaces that really honor the land,

1:37:42that honor the creation of community.

1:37:45So it's about much more than creating buildings and spaces.

1:37:51It's about really redefining how we are living

1:37:54in our urban spaces so that homes are what we are creating.

1:38:00So that houses are actually allowed to go back

1:38:03to being homes and no longer an investment vehicle

1:38:08that we have here in our city.

1:38:09So we would just encourage everybody to keep rethinking

1:38:16about how we can live together

1:38:19and allow that self-expression,

1:38:23that different neighborhoods to actually take form.

1:38:27What we really want to see is really liveable,

1:38:31walkable communities.

1:38:32They won't all look the same everywhere.

1:38:35We're hoping through the Junction Village Community Land Trust

1:38:38that we will create many pockets

1:38:40of different housing ecosystems here in the city.

1:38:44But we want each one of those to form

1:38:47in a really different, vibrant, individual way

1:38:51so that it actually meets the needs

1:38:53of each different community.

1:38:57And the other thing that I would just put forward

1:39:00is really about parking.

1:39:03So I really applaud that we are rolling back

1:39:07some of the needs around parking

1:39:09so that we're not building just large car parks.

1:39:12We're actually able to create spaces where we can get our

1:39:16hands into the earth and actually create spaces

1:39:19that people want to be in.

1:39:21And I would encourage us to keep pulling that back

1:39:25even further and really rethink our city

1:39:28so that cars are not the central consideration.

1:39:33And so I would ask that we keep increasing ways

1:39:37that we can move around the city

1:39:39and keep making sure that the spaces are liveable

1:39:45and walkable and that we allow shops

1:39:48and different entities to come into spaces

1:39:51that have previously just been only allowing

1:39:56single family homes to develop.

1:39:58So that's the main thing that I really wanted to come here

1:40:01and say is thanks for going in this direction

1:40:04and keep being bold.

1:40:06We're not going to get there through increments.

1:40:09We're in a time of breakdown.

1:40:11We really are.

1:40:12We're in a time of global breakdown.

1:40:14And what we do, and Guelph has always been a city

1:40:19that is bold and on the cutting edge of what is possible.

1:40:23So I would really ask for each one of us

1:40:27to go further, to go right to where the line is

1:40:32and lean over it and let's really create something

1:40:36that puts Guelph on the map,

1:40:38as we have always known it has been,

1:40:40as this really livable, beautiful city that we know it is.

1:40:46So thanks for the time.

1:40:48Great, thank you.

1:40:49I have one follow up question for you.

1:40:51So just a Councillor Gull or go ahead.

1:40:54Thank you and through your worship.

1:40:56Thank you so much for your presentation, Marrake.

1:40:58You mentioned that we're a progressive city

1:41:02and I believe that you have folks in your neighborhood

1:41:05and you have some multi-residential

1:41:08that you're familiar with.

1:41:10The question of reduced parking from your perspective

1:41:13and the folks that you live with, some of your tenants,

1:41:16do we still need one parking spot per unit?

1:41:20Our experience, what we have at the moment,

1:41:23we have actually very few tenants who have cars

1:41:29and we have a community car share on site

1:41:34and we've actually had a contract signed

1:41:36to have a community car share there for about 12 years now

1:41:39and we now have a car and that is very used.

1:41:43So the people who live in our community

1:41:46use that community car share regularly

1:41:49and yeah, we do not require that number

1:41:52of parking spaces in any way, shape or form.

1:41:55Great, thank you.

1:41:56And just so that we understand,

1:41:58when we're talking about the tenants,

1:42:01is it families, single people, a mix of people?

1:42:03So for the Junction Village Guelph,

1:42:06we have two single family homes

1:42:09that are right next door to each other.

1:42:10One is our own home and then across the road from that,

1:42:15we have a six-plex apartment building

1:42:17and the house that is adjacent to us

1:42:19is really a co-living house.

1:42:22So we have many people who are living there

1:42:26at different times, some are students,

1:42:30are there for many, many years,

1:42:32or permanent residents and some are there

1:42:34on a shorter term basis.

1:42:36But I would say the majority of people

1:42:39who live there do not have cars.

1:42:41I really appreciate your sharing those insights.

1:42:43Thank you so much.

1:42:44Thanks.

1:42:45Thank you, Worship.

1:42:46One second, because Councillor Allt has put up his hand as well.

1:42:49So go ahead.

1:42:50Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie.

1:42:52Through you to Ms. Craig and Ms. Craig, first of all,

1:42:54thank you for the vision that you do have in that area.

1:42:57I think it's pretty darn neat, actually.

1:42:59I'm not chicken to say that.

1:43:02But I do have a question, it's a problematic question.

1:43:04I'm going to pose to staff as well.

1:43:07When I started doing the math on what it would cost

1:43:09for additional dwelling units,

1:43:12I'm looking at almost up,

1:43:14almost close to a million dollars for four plexus.

1:43:17And I'm very, very concerned that with how is it

1:43:19at the cost that it is,

1:43:21that what we are going to see is not a vision like yours,

1:43:25which I respect and I think it's fabulous,

1:43:27but rather we are going to see investors come in.

1:43:30And rather than putting in something that is village-like

1:43:33as you've proposed,

1:43:35put in essentially units that are an investment in for profit.

1:43:40How do we deal with that?

1:43:42I can tell you how.

1:43:43I think you should deal with it,

1:43:44which is to encourage something like the Community Land Trust

1:43:50to own as many different properties

1:43:53as we possibly can in Guelph.

1:43:54Like I would be envisioning this,

1:43:57and I know this makes people laugh when I say this,

1:44:00but it should be owning kind of a third of Guelph type of scale

1:44:04because the Community Land Trust underpinning that

1:44:08allows the values off the Community Land Trust

1:44:11to actually be what drives the development.

1:44:14So you could still have houses above the Community Land Trust

1:44:19that are in private ownership

1:44:21through long-term tenancy agreements

1:44:24and the creation of many different units,

1:44:27but you would be underpinning it with very different values

1:44:31than the corporate bottom line investor vehicle values.

1:44:36You'd actually be infusing in it the values off,

1:44:40let's actually create thriving livable, walkable villages

1:44:46rather than spaces that are commodities.

1:44:49So.

1:44:50Thank you very much for the values statement.

1:44:52Okay, thank you.

1:44:53I see nothing more for real this time.

1:44:55You're done.

1:44:56I can't get it.

1:44:57Okay, thank you.

1:44:58I know many people are here in the audience,

1:45:01probably for the, perhaps a couple of the other items

1:45:04that are coming up on the agenda,

1:45:07but as is the process here,

1:45:10we're gonna throw a full number up on the screen

1:45:13and also ask in the room if there's someone

1:45:15that wants to speak directly just to this item

1:45:18about four plexes.

1:45:21I can get the number up there.

1:45:23I know it's 519837 something.

1:45:25There it is.

1:45:265198375603.

1:45:29We're just gonna take a four or five minute break tops

1:45:32just to see if someone wanted to speak on this item.

1:45:36And then is there anyone else in this room

1:45:38that just wanted to speak on this one?

1:45:42Is there anyone at all?

1:45:44Okay, we got one more here.

1:45:46If you wanna wait, just wait two minutes

1:45:48and then I'll call you down.

1:45:49I'll just wait for the,

1:45:50just to see if anyone comes here

1:45:52and then we'll go with you, okay?

1:45:54Okay, thank you.

1:45:55Just let us just take a breath everyone for two, three minutes

1:45:58and we'll come back to our regularly scheduled program.

1:49:58I'll call the meeting back to order

1:50:00and we did not get anyone wanting to call in,

1:50:02but we saw one person that wishes to come down.

1:50:06So we'll take you.

1:50:08And just as the record here in the process,

1:50:11we just require you to say your name for us

1:50:14so it could be captured in the minutes.

1:50:16And then again, you would have no more than 10 minutes

1:50:18if you need it as well.

1:50:20Okay, so go right ahead.

1:50:27Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie

1:50:29and members of Guelph City Council.

1:50:31My name is Dylan Fraser.

1:50:32I'm a broker with Royal LaPage Royal City Realty

1:50:35here in Guelph, past president of the Guelph

1:50:37and District Association of Realtors.

1:50:39And now director on the One Point

1:50:41of Association of Realtors.

1:50:42For those of you who may not know,

1:50:43One Point is our newly formed association

1:50:46which represents over 3,000

1:50:47hardworking real estate representatives.

1:50:51In Bruce, here on Guelph, Wellington,

1:50:54Simcoe, Muskoka and Perry Sound.

1:50:56And One Point has brought together these four associations

1:51:00including the Guelph and District Association of Realtors

1:51:02to offer better services to our members

1:51:04and increase our emphasis on government relations.

1:51:07We're proud to work with our elected officials

1:51:10at all levels of government

1:51:12to help all residents find attainable housing.

1:51:15Today I wish to express One Point's strong support

1:51:18of this critical initiative in front of you.

1:51:21The four units as of right amendment

1:51:24is a meaningful step towards more attainable housing

1:51:27for Guelph residents.

1:51:29The proposed bylaw allowing up to four dwelling units

1:51:32on low density residential lots

1:51:34is a practical forward thinking solution

1:51:37to increase our city's housing supply.

1:51:40By unlocking the potential for over 14,000 lots,

1:51:46this amendment enables property owners

1:51:48to create a diverse mix of housing types

1:51:50such as duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes

1:51:53without the need for rezoning.

1:51:56This approach provides options for families

1:51:58at different life stages,

1:52:00from couples entering the market

1:52:02to seniors looking to downsize.

1:52:04It also supports a small scale development,

1:52:08allowing builders to create housing options

1:52:10faster and more affordably.

1:52:12Maintaining existing setbacks and height limits

1:52:16ensures that these changes integrate seamlessly

1:52:18into the character of our neighborhoods.

1:52:21Overall, this bylaw embodies a balanced approach to growth,

1:52:26addressing urgent housing needs,

1:52:28while respecting our community's values.

1:52:31While some municipalities continue to rest

1:52:34on antiquated housing models,

1:52:36Guelph is a shining light of what is possible

1:52:38when our leaders come together to solve complex challenges

1:52:42like our housing affordability crisis.

1:52:44We urge you to vote in favor of this bylaw amendment

1:52:47and support affordable homes for families

1:52:49in the city of Guelph.

1:52:50Thank you.

1:52:52Great, thank you Dylan for coming.

1:52:54Is there any follow up for, okay,

1:52:55Councillor Boussa-Till please.

1:52:57Yes, thank you.

1:52:58And through the mayor, I apologize.

1:52:59I just heard Dylan, your name.

1:53:00Can you just repeat your name?

1:53:03And I'm not clear if you're speaking

1:53:05on behalf of yourself or if this is a survey

1:53:08of your members or so on, if you can, sorry, I missed that.

1:53:11No trouble.

1:53:11I'm here on behalf of the One Point Association of Realtors.

1:53:16So newly amalgamated, including the former

1:53:19Guelph and District Association of Realtors.

1:53:22You're welcome.

1:53:22And Councillor Boussa, I'm sorry, Councillor O'Rourke.

1:53:26Thank you Mayor Guthrie, through you to the delegate.

1:53:29I'm not sure if you've had the opportunity

1:53:30to read the Gentle Density Study,

1:53:32but it actually does a deep dive into some assumptions

1:53:35around surrounding property values and states

1:53:38that it may in fact enhance surrounding property values.

1:53:41And so I'm just wondering if that's the experience

1:53:43of your association.

1:53:46Sure, yes, I mean, certainly with additional dwelling units

1:53:50with the ability for more revenue

1:53:52that's naturally increases the value of properties.

1:53:56I think at the same time, sort of building off

1:53:59what Councillor Altad had forewarned, if you will,

1:54:04earlier is that it also allows an income option

1:54:08for people to be able to get into property.

1:54:10So it sort of has that additional effect, if you will.

1:54:14That's terrific.

1:54:15Thanks very much.

1:54:16Yeah, for sure.

1:54:17Great, thank you again for coming.

1:54:19Appreciate it.

1:54:21Okay, Council, it is back to us.

1:54:25And so I just wanted, so Councillor O'Rourke had mentioned

1:54:31moving the recommendations,

1:54:32would someone be willing to second them?

1:54:34Councillor Cawson?

1:54:35Yeah, okay, Councillor Cawson.

1:54:37And again, just wanting to highlight to Council

1:54:44the amount of items that we have on our agenda tonight,

1:54:48just be aware of time as we try to move through them.

1:54:51And if we could get to any questions

1:54:53that we have right now, I'll go to Councillor Gibson.

1:54:58Thank you, you three, Mr. Mayor.

1:55:00Appreciate the delegations,

1:55:02appreciate the presentation from staff.

1:55:03I just wanted to unpack one scenario with staff.

1:55:06I heard you say very clearly that this is related

1:55:10to single detached only and that on street

1:55:14and semi-detached homes are three, as of right.

1:55:19I just, I can't get past the follow-up sharing

1:55:24a little bit of a story,

1:55:25then I'll ask how this is going to be mitigated

1:55:27through passing of a four-plex by right.

1:55:31There's a neighborhood,

1:55:31there's neighborhoods in the East End where I go visit

1:55:34and people are telling me that they haven't parked

1:55:36in front of their house in five years,

1:55:38that their neighbor occupies the on-street parking spot

1:55:41and before they leave that on-street parking spot,

1:55:44they have their other car waiting to occupy it.

1:55:48That's how competitive and tight on-street parking is

1:55:52in so many of our neighborhoods

1:55:54where these basement apartments have gone in, these ADUs.

1:55:57How are we going to mitigate and avoid,

1:56:01and I'll just pose that too quick.

1:56:04What is the perceived risk of introducing this four-plex

1:56:08by right with a reduced parking minimum

1:56:10for our suburban neighborhoods

1:56:11and why wouldn't we want to limit this to an area

1:56:14closer to the densities of the downtown and the transit?

1:56:20I think you're going to tell me

1:56:21that it's linked to federal funding,

1:56:23but I'll let you answer that question.

1:56:33Yep.

1:56:34Through you, Margarita, Heather Gibson.

1:56:37I'll start with the last part of your question and yes,

1:56:42in order to fulfill our commitment

1:56:45for the Housing Accelerator Fund,

1:56:47this zoning by all amendment would need

1:56:50to be permitted city-wide across all neighborhoods

1:56:54across our city.

1:56:56And then perhaps I might pass it to Katie

1:57:00for the mitigating parking.

1:57:02Through you, Margarita, Councillor Gibson.

1:57:13They're definitely heard these issues around parking

1:57:17in some neighborhoods, but it's not consistent.

1:57:19It does depend on the existing situation

1:57:25and makeup of that particular street.

1:57:28So where one street, there's a higher demand

1:57:31for parking than another and it really does depend

1:57:33on those owners and neighbors,

1:57:36but in staff's opinion, providing for the flexibility

1:57:41is a really balanced approach to take.

1:57:45Certainly many, many lots across the city

1:57:49already allow for four parking spaces,

1:57:51so it would be no change for many of them,

1:57:53but especially in the downtown,

1:57:55we find adding that reduction in one space

1:57:59does provide more flexibility

1:58:01to potentially allow more supply of these types of units.

1:58:07Okay, I'll just speak from the hard load.

1:58:11I get increasingly uncomfortable

1:58:13with the infill style that I'm seeing

1:58:16when I see it on the landscape.

1:58:18I guess my question is, if we go to four units,

1:58:22three parking spaces, even at this point now

1:58:25where we have three units and three parking spaces

1:58:27for the on street towns, semi-detached,

1:58:31the case I'm thinking of,

1:58:33it really is our committee of adjustment

1:58:35that's holding these neighborhoods together.

1:58:42The committee of adjustment requests go in

1:58:45and the committee of adjustments are the ones

1:58:47that are turning down the parking expansion.

1:58:49So the units go in, but the parking expansion

1:58:51doesn't allow it.

1:58:53How does that, maybe a question

1:58:55through the building department,

1:58:57how do we approve as a right without approving,

1:59:01without having the parking in place?

1:59:02So someone had four units and they only had two parking spaces.

1:59:05What would stop them from being able to move forward?

1:59:09Would the building department not issue the building permit

1:59:12or would they issue the building permit

1:59:15and then tell the applicant,

1:59:17you've got to go through committee of adjustment

1:59:19to get that third one or else

1:59:20you're not allowed to occupy those units.

1:59:22How does that work?

1:59:26At the time of building permit,

1:59:28if it doesn't comply with zoning,

1:59:29they would not issue the permit.

1:59:32Okay, so that's, I guess that's getting to the heart

1:59:36of one question,

1:59:37it's not necessarily completely related to this,

1:59:40but if a homeowner believes that they have a right

1:59:43to put in a basement apartment

1:59:47and just simply put in a building permit

1:59:49to finish their apartment,

1:59:50like is the city following up with those homeowners

1:59:53to ensure that it's not becoming sort of an illegal duplex

1:59:57or a non-compliant triplex?

2:00:00Are we doing checks on building permits for basement finishes

2:00:05that are being quickly converted into apartments?

2:00:07Because I feel like that's happening.

2:00:10People are getting building permits

2:00:12to finish out their basement

2:00:13and then converting them to apartments.

2:00:15And then the street ends up having to accept all the cars.

2:00:20Can you help me?

2:00:21Does the city do spot checks on building permits like that?

2:00:27Through the mayor to the council.

2:00:29So yes, we do, we do follow up on that.

2:00:31And with our final inspections,

2:00:33we'll know if they've done put in a kitchen, for example,

2:00:35or roughed it in during our inspection process.

2:00:38We also do proactive enforcement on units.

2:00:43If you're, maybe our secrets out,

2:00:45but if you advertise on Kijidi or other sites

2:00:47for our apartment for rent,

2:00:48we often follow up on those.

2:00:50And go through a court process potentially

2:00:53to bring them into compliance.

2:00:54So we do that on an annual basis.

2:00:56Those inspection checks for basement apartments.

2:01:00And we also respond to complaints.

2:01:03If we hear concerns from our resident

2:01:06that something has happened illegally,

2:01:07that's usually our tip off point.

2:01:10Okay.

2:01:12I would feel more comfortable if we were allowed.

2:01:15Like I understand this federal funding associated with this.

2:01:17I would feel more comfortable

2:01:18if we were allowed to put a geographic area in place,

2:01:21say the downtown core or just outside the downtown core

2:01:23for these, for this types of foreplex by right.

2:01:27I'll just leave it with,

2:01:28I'm gonna make a comment here.

2:01:29I know Mr. Mayor,

2:01:30but just leave it with the the issuances of building permits

2:01:35in the absence of confirming that parking is available.

2:01:38I can think of one instance in the East end here.

2:01:41It is destabilizing some of these neighborhoods.

2:01:44And just a concern I have ongoing,

2:01:46how to manage this.

2:01:49Again, I don't wanna turn down federal funding,

2:01:51but it's becoming an increasing concern.

2:01:54Again, I went to visit a constituent the other week

2:01:56and I couldn't find a parking spot anywhere.

2:01:59I ended up parking in front of their cars

2:02:03on their driveway on the road

2:02:05and sort of boxing them in just to have a visit with them.

2:02:08Cause there was literally no parking for three or four blocks

2:02:11around their house.

2:02:12It's that tight.

2:02:13So just express my concern and put it out there.

2:02:18Thank you.

2:02:20Thank you.

2:02:21Councillor Downer, then Councillor Allt.

2:02:25I have an amendment.

2:02:26Do you wanna wait till the questions are done?

2:02:30Oh, okay.

2:02:34Just a comment to Councillor Gibson though first is

2:02:41London only allows four units on connector roads

2:02:44and they'll still be getting their federal funding.

2:02:46So like we do have the room to make any changes we want,

2:02:50but that's not my amendment.

2:02:51So if staff could put up the amendment

2:02:54that I worked with staff on,

2:02:58for me it's about an additional dwelling units

2:03:03must be set, I'd move this and I'd look for a second

2:03:06or must be set back from the exterior side lot line,

2:03:09no less than the exterior side yard setback

2:03:12of the main dwelling unit.

2:03:14And is there a seconder for that?

2:03:19Councillor Busuttil.

2:03:20Okay, Bousatil will second.

2:03:22Yeah.

2:03:23So this sort of came about from a situation

2:03:26that can arise and it's not an often situation

2:03:28like a situation that would happen often,

2:03:31but more in a corner lot where the,

2:03:36while visually the house looks like it's

2:03:40on one side of the road.

2:03:41It's kind of difficult to describe,

2:03:43but an ADU was built in what looks like visually a side yard,

2:03:48which is actually from a zoning perspective was its backyard,

2:03:51but anyway, the house faces the road.

2:03:54Looks like it's in the side yard to anybody on that street,

2:03:57but it's about four meters in front of the face

2:04:01of any house on that street.

2:04:03And I know staff from,

2:04:07when they make recommendations,

2:04:08they're often make houses set back

2:04:11about the average of houses on any street

2:04:14to deal with sort of compatibility and streetscape issues.

2:04:17And I, so this is not a common situation,

2:04:20but where it does happen,

2:04:21it does have I think an impact on the streetscape

2:04:26and then creates an unfavorable impression of ADU.

2:04:29So this is about a situation that exists

2:04:32and this would make this,

2:04:36and in this situation,

2:04:38the ADU could have been built back to the face of the wall

2:04:43as to where the garage is, the garage was slightly forward.

2:04:46So it's, I sent pictures to counselors,

2:04:48so I think they know the situation I'm talking about.

2:04:52Okay, thank you.

2:04:53Is there any questions on this amendment at all?

2:04:57Okay, I have one just for clarity.

2:05:00I would imagine that the applicant in a situation like this

2:05:05could come to committee of adjustments.

2:05:10And ask for the variances required

2:05:12to do what counselor downers motion is trying to stop.

2:05:20And I would imagine that if it came to committee of adjustments

2:05:22that staff would probably be in support.

2:05:27So someone would have to pay a couple thousand dollars

2:05:29to come to committee of adjustments

2:05:31to do what's being allowed.

2:05:34And our staff would support it

2:05:35at committee of adjustments anyways.

2:05:38Am I saying that right?

2:05:41Through the mayor, we do look at every application

2:05:44individually and specifically,

2:05:46but if it met the side yard setback in the zoning bylaw,

2:05:49we would have to consider it and we probably support it

2:05:51given that we've supported it publicly in this document.

2:05:54So yes.

2:05:56So I know the one that counselor downer sent around

2:05:59as a picture, in fact, I've gone and spoken

2:06:01to that neighborhood who was upset about that.

2:06:05I'm not gonna support this because one neighborhood

2:06:09with one being built right now

2:06:12that is causing some issues with one neighborhood

2:06:15is not something that I think we should use

2:06:17as a template across the entire city

2:06:20to reduce the options for more housing options

2:06:23for our community.

2:06:24So I do appreciate counselor downer bringing it forward,

2:06:27but I can't support that to limit those types of choices.

2:06:32Back to the mover, go ahead.

2:06:33You have the final say before we call it over.

2:06:35Just in saying that staff had told me

2:06:37that these situations can be rare,

2:06:39which is what I've said.

2:06:40So it's not removing too many options.

2:06:43And in this case, I saw the lot layout of the site

2:06:48and they could easily have made it,

2:06:50still built an ADU and met the face of the wall.

2:06:53It would not have reduced the option for them at all.

2:06:56They wouldn't have had to have gone

2:06:57to the committee adjustment.

2:07:01Okay.

2:07:02So I will call the vote then on the amendment.

2:07:06Anyone against this, please raise your hand.

2:07:10So Richardson and myself and O'Rourke

2:07:16and Colassen and Guller, I think that's it.

2:07:21So that passes.

2:07:23Thank you.

2:07:24Okay, we'll continue to move on.

2:07:25Councillor Allt.

2:07:27Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

2:07:29Through you two staff.

2:07:31A quick question about ADUs at the present time.

2:07:35How many ADUs do we have

2:07:38that are applied for per year?

2:07:40And what is the character of those?

2:07:42Are they individual structures?

2:07:47Are they basement apartments?

2:07:49What are we looking at when we look at per year,

2:07:52the ADUs that we currently are approving

2:07:54or receiving requests to establish?

2:08:00Through the mayor to the councillor.

2:08:02So every month we publish our building statistics

2:08:05and we do identify the number of ADUs

2:08:07and individual detached units.

2:08:10Last year we had about 260 ADUs in total

2:08:15of which 14 were detached ADUs.

2:08:19So that's about the range we see on an average year.

2:08:23Thank you.

2:08:24And the next question is really simple when I hope.

2:08:28I don't know what we categorize as a parking space.

2:08:32And I'll give you the example.

2:08:34When we moved into our house,

2:08:36we could park seven cars in our driveway.

2:08:39We cut the parking down to be able to hold maybe three.

2:08:44And the reason we did that is we didn't need all that asphalt

2:08:47and we only have one car anyway.

2:08:49What is officially or legally determined

2:08:52to be a parking space?

2:09:04Through you mayor Guthrie to councillor Allt.

2:09:06So on most single detached lots,

2:09:10generally the legal off street parking space

2:09:12is one behind the front wall of the house,

2:09:16which generally leaves one space in the driveway

2:09:21because houses are generally required to be setback

2:09:23six meters throughout the downtown

2:09:27and older built up areas though.

2:09:28It's not always consistent.

2:09:30So some, if they predate several bylaws could have

2:09:36parking just in the front yard.

2:09:38And our house pretty well predates Guelph.

2:09:41But the reason I asked the question is that

2:09:45not all parking spaces,

2:09:46it would appear within the city are the same.

2:09:49And that to me is in some sense is a challenge

2:09:51for us getting our heads around what this particular bylaw

2:09:56will mean for parking spaces throughout the city.

2:10:00It seems to me that it could then technically be possible

2:10:04for even with one parking space for three of four ADUs

2:10:09to park more than three cars.

2:10:11Is that true?

2:10:13One behind the front of the house

2:10:15and one in front of the front of the house.

2:10:21Generally in a single detached lot or a low density zoning,

2:10:26the maximum driveway width in those zones

2:10:32is five or six meters,

2:10:33both of which would allow two cars in the driveway.

2:10:38And then one behind the front wall of the house,

2:10:40which is usually in a garage.

2:10:43Okay, so then it would permit for more than one per unit.

2:10:48Okay, thank you.

2:10:50I have comments at some point, Marguerite.

2:10:52Oh, just do it now.

2:10:54Thank you.

2:10:55I am generally in favor of this,

2:10:57but I do have some concerns.

2:10:59I note that we're requesting that we've identified

2:11:02that we have 11,100 lots, but we could add 3,100.

2:11:07But we are only receiving and approving

2:11:09about 380 use per year.

2:11:12When I do the math on that,

2:11:13we are not going to reach a significant total by 2051.

2:11:19And I'm very, very concerned that what we are doing

2:11:21is establishing a panacea for housing

2:11:23that might not necessarily help us

2:11:26in reaching our housing totals.

2:11:29I'm also very concerned about the law

2:11:30of unintended consequences.

2:11:32And I appreciate what Ms. Craig had said

2:11:35about her principles and values and beliefs.

2:11:38I am not certain that that necessarily holds true

2:11:40for the whole city.

2:11:42And I am concerned that this can become

2:11:46for some people an investment paradise

2:11:49and for others a neighborhood nightmare

2:11:52if we are not careful.

2:11:57Okay, Councillor or Rourke and then Guller.

2:12:02And then I'll go to the screen

2:12:04to my colleagues up on the screen.

2:12:05Thank you, Marguerite,

2:12:06through you I have a question

2:12:07and then a couple of comments.

2:12:10So my question is through you,

2:12:12Marguerite, through the staff.

2:12:15Table 33 in the report, hang on,

2:12:19just want to find my question there.

2:12:21It reads maximum of three spaces

2:12:24for a unit property.

2:12:29And so I'm just wondering,

2:12:30is that really a maximum or is there a minimum?

2:12:33Because what kind of comforts me

2:12:35is that the law is big enough,

2:12:37you can't have a driveway down the side

2:12:39and parking in the rear

2:12:40and it's shown in some of your demonstrations.

2:12:43So is there a maximum of three spaces or a minimum?

2:12:49Through you, Marguerite, to Councillor or Rourke,

2:12:54that chart in its entirety,

2:12:56it's actually intended to say

2:12:59the maximum number required.

2:13:02And so what that was really is that

2:13:04we would require no more than three,

2:13:06but certainly we would permit

2:13:09whatever number of parking spaces

2:13:11the law could accommodate.

2:13:12There are no maximum parking requirements

2:13:14related to four plexes or ADUs.

2:13:19Okay, so if somebody, through you, Marguerite,

2:13:21if somebody wanted to provide more parking,

2:13:25four units, six units, rent out units,

2:13:27do the car share, which is a great idea,

2:13:29then it's really at the discretion of that landowner

2:13:33subject to the city's approval, is that correct?

2:13:37That's correct, it is simply that we would require three.

2:13:40Okay, great, thank you.

2:13:41So through you, Marguerite, just a couple of comments.

2:13:44I actually don't share Councillor Alts' concerns

2:13:47about an investor's paradise, the reason being,

2:13:50I've never seen a staff report that provided proformas,

2:13:54where we could really understand what some of the costs were

2:13:57and what some of the constraints would be.

2:14:00So I'm actually not concerned that we're going to see

2:14:03a ton of these across the city.

2:14:06I do acknowledge Councillor Gibson raised it.

2:14:10Figure eight shows us that frontages vary across the city

2:14:14and that streets with narrower lots

2:14:16have less on-street parking.

2:14:18This is true, it's true in the south end,

2:14:19it's true in the east end, and we need to be aware

2:14:22in some neighborhoods, it is gonna be a lot tighter.

2:14:25What I like about this new version, so clearly,

2:14:29I mean, the depth of the report is quite astonishing.

2:14:33I really feel like staff and the consultants

2:14:35have been listening.

2:14:37I really like, you know, I was never comfortable

2:14:40with three units as of right in a townhouse, right?

2:14:45So that makes me uncomfortable.

2:14:48And so these four units are strictly on R1 and R2 lots.

2:14:53I like that you remove the restrictions

2:14:55for internal connections between units

2:14:58because we see it in Montreal all the time,

2:15:00that you've got stairs going down to a basement apartment

2:15:02and stairs going up to the main floor.

2:15:05And so I think that creates some flexibility.

2:15:08I like that you've simplified the requirements for ADUs

2:15:11to be smaller than principal dwelling.

2:15:12I have heard that from folks who wanna convert

2:15:14their own building to add some units.

2:15:18So I think we're taking out a lot of the challenges

2:15:21that folks have had.

2:15:23I appreciate that you increase the side yard separation

2:15:25for second story units for neighborhood privacy.

2:15:28I've heard that a lot in my ward

2:15:30where people are concerned about that.

2:15:32And I really like the note on page 79

2:15:34of the final report because it ties into the affordability

2:15:37piece we're gonna discuss later.

2:15:38And it says to support simplification on ownership models

2:15:42to encourage co-ops and small condominiums.

2:15:45So I really think that the model is a good one.

2:15:51I think that would be fairly limited in the uptake

2:15:54given the lots available and also the performance

2:15:57that were provided.

2:15:58And I just wanna thank staff for really a stellar report.

2:16:03Thanks.

2:16:05Thanks.

2:16:06Again, it's being aware of time everybody,

2:16:07Gowler and then Koran.

2:16:10Thank you through your worship.

2:16:11I'll say Ditto to Councillor Oroch's comments.

2:16:15I do have one question for staff.

2:16:18A lot of the concerns that I hear from my constituents

2:16:21are around the availability of parking.

2:16:24Not directly tied to this,

2:16:26but I believe are we doing an on street parking review

2:16:29this year if I could just have a confirmation

2:16:31that that is happening?

2:16:33To the council we're doing one in 2025.

2:16:37Not yet.

2:16:37Yes, yes, this coming in.

2:16:39Yes, okay, thank you for that.

2:16:41And I am hopeful that that will go a long way

2:16:43to address many of the issues that we're having.

2:16:47And just to confirm semi-detached maximum of three units.

2:16:53Is that correct?

2:16:56Okay, okay, thank you for that.

2:16:58And thank you, Councillor Oroch for your eloquence.

2:17:01Koran and then Gibson.

2:17:04Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:17:05I Ditto to Councillor Goller,

2:17:07Ditto to Councillor Oroch,

2:17:10Ditto to Councillor Downer.

2:17:12I do have an amendment because I do share

2:17:14all of these parking concerns.

2:17:16We're in an ideal world.

2:17:19We could absolutely minimize the amount of parking

2:17:22for all forms of housing.

2:17:25Fully functioning transit system, active transportation,

2:17:28major transit corridors.

2:17:30That's what we're aspiring to, but we're not there yet.

2:17:32And I think our experience has shown

2:17:34in the testimonies today that on-street parking

2:17:37and overflow parking when we don't build enough

2:17:40is significantly challenging our neighbourhood.

2:17:43So I do have proposed amendment that takes us back

2:17:47to our existing regulations with respect to accessory units.

2:17:52And in table 5.3, and I apologize to planning staff

2:17:56that I just kind of sprung this on you

2:17:58at 2.07 this afternoon.

2:18:01But I do feel strongly we need to have that minimum

2:18:06of one parking space per dwelling unit

2:18:12that is consistent with our current policy

2:18:13rather than amending it for one less space.

2:18:17Until such time as we can amend this at a later date,

2:18:21but we heard from our staff that we could potentially

2:18:24at the current parking regulations have 11,000 units

2:18:28and in excess of 14,000 if we went to one less space.

2:18:32I think we need to focus on the 11,000 lots

2:18:36and see how that goes.

2:18:38I don't think we have to go all in

2:18:39in this zoning amendment.

2:18:41I think we can monitor how much parking demand

2:18:45is being taken up on the sites

2:18:48that are approved for accessory units.

2:18:51As we move forward, if you build four parking spaces

2:18:56and you don't need one,

2:18:58it can be converted at a later zoning amendment.

2:19:02That space can be converted to a garden shed

2:19:05or a bicycle parking or a raised garden bed.

2:19:09It can be converted to another use.

2:19:10But if we don't build sufficient parking right up front,

2:19:14we will never get it back.

2:19:16And I think we're seeing the problems

2:19:19that are associated with that.

2:19:21So I do have a parking amendment.

2:19:22Not sure who wants to second it,

2:19:24but we'll put it on the floor.

2:19:26Yes, Councillor Allt will.

2:19:29Okay, are there any questions on this?

2:19:32Okay, I've got one.

2:19:34Oh, sorry, Councillor Gibson, go ahead.

2:19:40Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:19:40I just wanted to hear from staff.

2:19:42I believe I heard the calculation right, the expectation.

2:19:45So by my math, we're already adding,

2:19:46we're adding 380 use a year in the city.

2:19:50By my math by 2050, that's over 7,000 units

2:19:53in our residential areas being added.

2:19:56Just simply by people allowed to build 80 use.

2:19:59What would this mean for limiting 80 use across the city?

2:20:05I think I heard, did I hear a number of 3,100

2:20:07or 3,000 less units available?

2:20:09Is that what staff are predicting?

2:20:29Great, through you, Marga three.

2:20:32We're just gonna have our consultants actually answer

2:20:33that question as they have some of the analysis

2:20:35numbers to answer Councillor Gibson.

2:20:38Answer Councillor Gibson.

2:20:42Yes, yes, I just wanted to confirm that the increase

2:20:45with removing one parking would go from 11,100

2:20:50to 14,250.

2:20:53So I think you have the math right there.

2:20:56Okay.

2:21:01Sorry, do you still have the floor?

2:21:03I'll pose one more question and it all depends

2:21:06on how this vote goes.

2:21:09Maybe staff can work on this in the background.

2:21:10Just be ready for a question around what happens

2:21:12if we limited parking, did this motion

2:21:16but only included like a feeder streets.

2:21:19As Councillor Downer had mentioned,

2:21:20collector streets and sort of preserve the more,

2:21:26just preserve the more stable suburban areas.

2:21:30Thank you.

2:21:32That's got nothing to do with this vote.

2:21:34So don't worry about it.

2:21:35If this fails, I'll ask that question.

2:21:40Okay, thank you.

2:21:41So my question here is we need clarity right now

2:21:47on the agreement that we spent months on

2:21:52in negotiating with the federal government.

2:21:56And so the agreement, we've already heard one Councillor

2:22:00indicate, oh, look what London did.

2:22:02Maybe we could do that too.

2:22:03I don't think it's that easy folks.

2:22:05I don't think it's that easy at all.

2:22:07Council needs to understand that we made a Guelph contract

2:22:11specific to Guelph with the federal government.

2:22:15And we've heard our staff indicate

2:22:17that it has to be city wide.

2:22:19So this motion that's been tabled indicates only

2:22:21for the downtown core.

2:22:23So Council needs some clarity here

2:22:25before we start to contemplate this particular motion

2:22:29that what did we actually negotiate

2:22:33with the federal government for $21.4 million

2:22:37to try to unlock more housing in our city

2:22:40and is it easily negotiated on the fly here?

2:22:46So to you, Mayor Guthrie, just before I answer that,

2:22:50I did just want to mention that London is not,

2:22:54is city wide in terms of their permissions for four units.

2:22:57It is not just to collectors.

2:23:01So it is consistent with not only what we're proposing

2:23:05here today, but also other municipalities

2:23:08that have half funding as well.

2:23:12In terms of our agreement with the federal government,

2:23:14we have indicated across the city, which is city wide.

2:23:19Okay, so there's the clarity.

2:23:21Can we just have the motion back up on the screen?

2:23:24And I see the mover wanting to jump in.

2:23:26I recognize you, Councillor Caron.

2:23:29But let's just put that back up.

2:23:31So it's that proposed, the table be amended

2:23:34to require one off street parking space per unit

2:23:38and all zones except downtown zones.

2:23:40Would you staff consider this to be not in alignment

2:23:48with the contract that we made with the federal government

2:23:51because it's not city wide?

2:24:02Through Mayor Guthrie, I think we'd have to have

2:24:04a quick conversation with our CMHC rep

2:24:06to confirm their thoughts on this particular amendment.

2:24:11Okay, so we'll go back to some, thank you for,

2:24:14I think that was important to at least get some clarity,

2:24:16especially around London.

2:24:18So we're gonna go back to questions.

2:24:20And so Councillor Caron, do you want me to come back

2:24:24to you last as the mover or do you have a question?

2:24:27Well, I am willing to move in the exclusion

2:24:30of downtown zones.

2:24:31That was a cut and paste from the existing zoning regulations.

2:24:35So I expected that that's what staff were recommending.

2:24:41And if they're not recommending an exclusion

2:24:44of the downtown, then I'll remove that

2:24:46and just end it at one parking space per dwelling unit period.

2:24:50I'm happy with that.

2:24:51I thought that I was sorry.

2:24:53Sorry, we don't allow that in here.

2:24:54Okay, thank you.

2:24:56So if we could just have staff respond

2:24:58to Councillor Caron's point of clarification.

2:25:04In terms of the parking requirements,

2:25:06there is no required parking downtown.

2:25:09So that part of the motion is appropriate.

2:25:13So it's because the provincial government

2:25:15came in and said there's no parking minimums

2:25:17in the downtown.

2:25:18That's right.

2:25:19Okay, thank you, Councillor Caron.

2:25:21And so I saw a couple of hands go up over here.

2:25:24And again, just being aware of time.

2:25:25Okay, Councillor Goller and then Claeson.

2:25:28Thank you, Chair Worship.

2:25:29To staff, just to understand you said

2:25:32that you would have to check with the rep from the CMHC.

2:25:37So does that mean that if we make a decision

2:25:39we could be putting the half funding at risk

2:25:41and then we'd have to pay it back

2:25:42because we're not reducing the parking

2:25:44like we said we would?

2:26:01Through America, through Councillor Goller.

2:26:04Yes, we could potentially be putting our funding in jeopardy.

2:26:08Again, we'd have to confirm with our CMHC rep.

2:26:10And it could also place our zoning bylaw amendment

2:26:16be appealed as well, which could further jeopardize

2:26:21the ability to be eligible for the upcoming $6 billion

2:26:26Canada Infrastructure Housing Fund as well.

2:26:29Okay, so given this information,

2:26:32I would like to ask whether the mover would like

2:26:35to withdraw it.

2:26:36If not, could we go into close to speak with legal

2:26:39about the implications of making this decision?

2:26:50I think we'll not pose a question to the mover.

2:26:54I mean, the mover heard you, but let's just keep moving

2:26:56through the amendment that's on the floor.

2:26:59Your worship, I'm concerned that we vote on it

2:27:01and it passes it will have legal consequences.

2:27:05Maybe, but process wise, we do have a legitimate

2:27:10amendment on the floor.

2:27:11So as the chair, I just want to continue to move forward on it.

2:27:14It would be up to each of us hearing from our staff

2:27:17to still determine how we would vote based on the answers

2:27:20we heard from our staff.

2:27:21Yeah, could we move into close?

2:27:23I want to understand the cost of the city.

2:27:25No, I don't think.

2:27:27If you really want to move a motion to move into close,

2:27:30then you'd have to talk to the clerks

2:27:33and get the right section of section 239

2:27:35of the municipal act and figure that out if you want to.

2:27:38But I don't think we need to, Councillor Goward,

2:27:40only because I mean, you asked a very direct question

2:27:43and we heard a very direct answer back from our staff

2:27:46that indicated what the answer was, right?

2:27:48So let's see who's on my list next.

2:27:52That would be Klassen and then comment from O'Rourke.

2:27:59Yes, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor,

2:28:01to either the mover or staff.

2:28:04I just want to understand the meaning here

2:28:08of the amendment.

2:28:11When I was in university, I visited a friend of mine.

2:28:14She lived in a basement apartment.

2:28:17There was one parking spot for the upper unit.

2:28:19It was a family of four and her and her partner

2:28:22lived in the basement unit.

2:28:25They did not have parking.

2:28:26It was fine.

2:28:28They walked to school or took the bus.

2:28:31So my question is, does this now exclude,

2:28:35so if the dwelling unit was in the basement,

2:28:38would that unit also, would that require

2:28:41an off street parking space?

2:28:50Just thinking about a single family home

2:28:53who's got a basement apartment in,

2:28:55which wants to put in a basement apartment,

2:28:57is the idea that you would have to have a parking spot

2:29:00for that unit according to this amendment.

2:29:11As the amendment reposes,

2:29:17each dwelling unit, so each,

2:29:19so the main unit, any, you,

2:29:22would require parking in that case.

2:29:26Okay, so in that case,

2:29:27I don't think I can support the amendment.

2:29:28I think regular families often have a basement unit,

2:29:33and I don't think that they necessarily

2:29:35require that parking spot.

2:29:38So as it is, I don't think I'm gonna support it.

2:29:41Okay, thank you.

2:29:42A Rourke, then yeah, I just see you, Karan.

2:29:45I'm gonna do a Rourke, Kate, Gibson, Karan.

2:29:49Thanks, Mayor Guthrie.

2:29:50Just a question for clarification,

2:29:51and then I have a couple comments.

2:29:53So currently, anyone who's gonna add an ADU

2:29:56anywhere in the city, I'm gonna guess outside of downtown,

2:30:00has to provide one parking space.

2:30:02So that's still true, right?

2:30:04Through you, Mayor Guthrie.

2:30:05Sorry.

2:30:06That's correct, yes.

2:30:07Okay.

2:30:08And so through you, Mayor Guthrie, to staff,

2:30:10the only time you would not have to provide

2:30:14one parking space per unit is if you were building

2:30:18four units on a property.

2:30:20Is that correct?

2:30:27How the regulation reads is that

2:30:30when it comes to a four-plex,

2:30:33so four apartment units in one dwelling,

2:30:39three spaces would be required.

2:30:42For ADUs, it depends on the number.

2:30:45So the main dwelling would require the parking space.

2:30:50The first ADU would not,

2:30:53but the second and third would each require a parking space.

2:30:58So there is relief with the first ADU.

2:31:03So through you, Mayor Guthrie, to staff,

2:31:05just to be crystal clear.

2:31:07If I add a basement apartment in my home right now,

2:31:11I have to provide a parking spot, right?

2:31:16That's correct, yes.

2:31:18If I add an ADU in my yard that is just one unit,

2:31:23I also have to provide a parking spot, right?

2:31:27That's correct, yes.

2:31:28Okay.

2:31:29If I add a second story and another unit back there,

2:31:33I now have four units,

2:31:35I don't have to provide a fourth parking spot, right?

2:31:38So you only get that sort of a wave around the parking spot

2:31:41if you build four units.

2:31:43My apologies, I was basing it on the existing regulations.

2:31:48So the existing regulations currently today

2:31:53are one space per unit.

2:31:57The proposed that we're creating

2:32:01would be one space for the main,

2:32:05no space for the second unit or the first ADU,

2:32:11and then one space for each subsequent one.

2:32:14So it is a matter of the order that they come in

2:32:18as proposed.

2:32:19Okay.

2:32:20The idea is to give relief immediately

2:32:22to the first accessory unit.

2:32:25It doesn't require a space.

2:32:27But if you add more than one,

2:32:29then you do need extra spaces.

2:32:32Okay.

2:32:33I apologize, because I'm confused.

2:32:36I thought it was a build three parking spaces

2:32:39and you get the fourth, sort of,

2:32:41you get a buy on the fourth.

2:32:42This applied, sort of the waiver on the parking spot

2:32:45applied only to the four units as of right.

2:32:50So are you telling me, no,

2:32:52this now applies to any ADU,

2:32:56no longer has to provide a parking spot?

2:33:04So ultimately if you're building four,

2:33:08three spaces would be required in either situation.

2:33:11But if you're only building one,

2:33:14you would only need to spot for the main unit

2:33:16and not for the first accessory unit.

2:33:19If you were doing one main unit with two accessory,

2:33:23you would require one additional spot.

2:33:26And if you were doing one main and three accessory,

2:33:32you would require two additional spaces.

2:33:35So the math ends up the same at the end,

2:33:37but the difference is the very first accessory unit

2:33:41doesn't need the spot.

2:33:43Okay.

2:33:43Okay.

2:33:45All right, thank you.

2:33:46I got three.

2:33:46So my comment is everybody who knows me knows

2:33:50I've been a complete fierce advocate for parking

2:33:54in my entire first term of council for the past six years.

2:33:57I worked two years on the comprehensive zoning bylaw

2:33:59to preserve parking in apartment buildings,

2:34:02particularly in intensification zones.

2:34:05I see the overflow parking.

2:34:08My concern is we're really laser focused

2:34:10on what will be only really a few spots

2:34:15when the scale of reducing for a big apartment building

2:34:18to a 0.8 versus a one per unit.

2:34:21I mean, that's a much larger scale.

2:34:25So I actually don't think the impact here,

2:34:27especially with the performance

2:34:29and all the projections in the reports,

2:34:30I don't think that waiver of the parking spot

2:34:33will be particularly significant.

2:34:37And really if there are units where somebody

2:34:39may not need a vehicle,

2:34:41it's probably somebody who's in a garden suite.

2:34:44I lived in a basement apartment in Toronto

2:34:45and walked the subway.

2:34:48And so on that basis, I've been a huge advocate for parking,

2:34:52will continue to be a huge advocate for parking,

2:34:55but I can't condone removing 3,100 units

2:34:58from consideration on the whole.

2:35:02And I can't risk the city losing $21.4 million

2:35:07of investment in housing,

2:35:09which has been our number one topic for at least two years,

2:35:12and potentially infrastructure funding on top of that.

2:35:15So I can't support the motion.

2:35:18Thank you.

2:35:19Kate, please, and then Gibson.

2:35:24You question to staff.

2:35:26I know that we recently were talking about

2:35:28how to incent people to build accessible accessory units.

2:35:35And I know that the province doesn't mandate at this level

2:35:41that there be accessible parking spots.

2:35:44So I just kind of wanted to make a comment

2:35:47that when the parking review happens

2:35:51that accessible on street parking

2:35:54might wanna be something that we take a look at

2:35:56because that's gonna be a gap within the ecosystem.

2:36:02Thanks.

2:36:05Great, thank you.

2:36:06A couple of staff members, heads nodded there.

2:36:08Councillor Caton just to relay that back to you.

2:36:11So that's good.

2:36:12Gibson and then Koran.

2:36:15Thank you.

2:36:16I'll just state that my concerns are,

2:36:21my concerns stand when it comes to townhouses

2:36:23and on street towns,

2:36:24but it's not necessarily what we're talking about here.

2:36:27We're talking about single detached homes.

2:36:28So given the agreement and given the funding

2:36:33that's associated with it,

2:36:34again, I'm increasing the uncomfortable,

2:36:36but I won't be supporting this motion.

2:36:38I'll be supporting the main motion of staff.

2:36:43Okay, and to the mover, Councillor Caron.

2:36:46Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor.

2:36:47I do appreciate all the comments.

2:36:49I mean, I've looked at the agreement

2:36:50and one of the things that we're allowed to do

2:36:53is regulate certain things like setbacks and parking.

2:36:56That's allowed.

2:36:59And we have seen the effects of inadequate parking

2:37:02in our residential areas.

2:37:05I think it's worth reminding that

2:37:08this zoning regulation is new.

2:37:11Allowing the four plexes and the additional ADUs,

2:37:16it's new.

2:37:17So we can change it at any time.

2:37:20If two years from now,

2:37:21we find that parking's not an issue, we can change it.

2:37:26But I would remind Council

2:37:27that one of the other things that's changed

2:37:29in the landscape in the last year

2:37:31is there's no longer a cap,

2:37:33and correct me if I'm wrong, staff.

2:37:35I am willing to be corrected.

2:37:37The cap on the number of bedrooms has changed,

2:37:41which means it used to be that a basement apartment

2:37:43was limited to two bedrooms.

2:37:45That's no longer the case.

2:37:47That the cap on bedrooms has been eliminated.

2:37:49So we could end up,

2:37:51and we know that the rental by bedroom

2:37:55is becoming more of a model than rental by unit.

2:38:00You could have 10 to 12 rental bedrooms per property.

2:38:05If the accessory units have three bedrooms per unit.

2:38:10So when you have 10 to 12 multi-generational families

2:38:14or per bedroom rentals per property,

2:38:17we're gonna end up with a parking problem.

2:38:18So again, I'll keep the amendment on the floor

2:38:21because I do think we're going to have

2:38:23an overflow parking problem

2:38:24if we have an uptake even with the 11,000 units

2:38:28that can accommodate

2:38:31without the one parking spot per dwelling unit.

2:38:35So we'll bring it to a vote and we'll let council decide.

2:38:40Great, thank you councillor.

2:38:41So I'll wrap it up with my,

2:38:44from the hip comments before we vote.

2:38:47So definitely not supporting this.

2:38:51We're putting, we've heard,

2:38:54we've literally heard our staff say

2:38:55that we're putting something at risk.

2:38:58Okay, so we're putting the funding at risk.

2:39:00We're putting potential future funding at risk.

2:39:03Number six in the housing accelerator fund contract

2:39:06said that we had to do four units as of right,

2:39:08but number eight also said

2:39:10we needed to look at reduction of parking.

2:39:14We have also heard our comparators,

2:39:17Waterloo, Kitchener, Hamilton

2:39:19are all doing exactly what is being proposed here.

2:39:24We are in a housing crisis

2:39:25and I continue to hear people say it,

2:39:28but then when the options

2:39:29to actually unlock more housing are before us,

2:39:33we're not taking the stance to actually do it.

2:39:35We're not implementing those things that need to be done

2:39:40to try to bring about choice and affordability

2:39:43and more housing units to our city.

2:39:46And we would be losing out

2:39:47on over 3,000 potential units,

2:39:50choice for people to live somewhere.

2:39:54I will not hesitate to say no to that.

2:39:57That's my opinion because I do not want

2:40:02to be not only putting things at risk,

2:40:04but also reducing choice within our community

2:40:09and more housing options for so many people.

2:40:12So I'll call the vote.

2:40:15I have a point of privilege, Mr. Mayor, point of privilege.

2:40:19You indicated that our, yeah, thank you.

2:40:22And with all due respect,

2:40:23you indicated that our staff told us

2:40:25we would be putting our federal funding at risk.

2:40:28That is not what I heard staff say.

2:40:30I heard staff said they didn't know.

2:40:33So I think that needs to be clarified

2:40:35because my amendment is being framed

2:40:38as something that's putting our city at risk

2:40:40and that is not the case.

2:40:43I'm happy to clarify.

2:40:44And if I misinterpreted that,

2:40:46then you know I'll own it in a heartbeat.

2:40:48That's not a problem.

2:40:50I heard one of these lovely staff members down here

2:40:55answer Councillor Goller.

2:40:57To Councillor Goller's question, are we putting at risk?

2:41:00I think it was Kushla or it might have been Krista,

2:41:02literally said the answer is yes.

2:41:05So if I'm wrong, that's fine.

2:41:07I maybe I misinterpreted that.

2:41:09So can we get clarity on that just before we move forward?

2:41:22Mayor Guthrie, I believe I did say

2:41:25that we would need to clarify with CMHC as well.

2:41:30But I did say there is the potential,

2:41:33but clarity is still required.

2:41:35Okay, then I take that back.

2:41:37Councillor Caron, thank you for calling me out on it.

2:41:39I appreciate it.

2:41:41Can I just also speak?

2:41:45I would say that I through to you Mayor Guthrie,

2:41:49I'm concerned with the risk on this in the sense of

2:41:53if it got appealed and that was the comment by staff

2:41:57is that while the motion itself is, I would say,

2:42:02I agree that the agreement allows for the ability

2:42:08to adjust parking and that itself would not put at risk

2:42:12is that just the risk of that being appealed

2:42:15just given the consultation that was done

2:42:18and that in itself then delaying this bylaw

2:42:23is where for the risk for me comes in.

2:42:26And then that bylaw under appeal then becoming the,

2:42:30a bit of a risk on the federal funding,

2:42:32the additional federal funding opportunity.

2:42:34So I just wanted to state that before the vote.

2:42:36Okay, thank you to our CAO.

2:42:39And so my final comment then before the vote would be this,

2:42:41I'm gonna flip what my colleague Councillor Caron said about,

2:42:45we can look at something in a couple of years,

2:42:47we can measure and get some metrics.

2:42:49I would flip that.

2:42:50I would say, no, let's do what I believe would be

2:42:53the right thing to do,

2:42:54which is not to support this amendment.

2:42:56And let's then dip our toe in the water to see how it works

2:43:00with the 15 or whatever 20 tops per year that is happening.

2:43:05And let us determine the metrics and the data

2:43:08on that side of the equation

2:43:10instead of actually going the other way

2:43:12as being proposed by the mover.

2:43:13So to my colleague, I really do think we should not support

2:43:18this and we'll see how the vote lands.

2:43:20So I'll call the vote.

2:43:21So those not in favor of the amendment,

2:43:24please raise your hand.

2:43:29Okay, so Guthrie, Gibson, Chiu, Billings and Katon,

2:43:36and Gawler and Clausson and O'Rourke and Boussatill

2:43:41and Richardson, so that's 10.

2:43:43Okay, thank you though, Councillor Caron.

2:43:46Good debate, good discussion,

2:43:47got some clarity on some things, so fair enough, thank you.

2:43:52Okay, we're gonna go back to the main motion then.

2:43:56As amended, I would call it because Councillor

2:43:59Downer's motion passed.

2:44:01Is there anything further before I call the vote?

2:44:05Okay, I will call the vote then on the main motion

2:44:08as amended, is anyone against?

2:44:12That is unanimous, thank you very much

2:44:14to our staff, consultants and the public

2:44:16and the engagement on this, we appreciate it.

2:44:19And I'm very excited to vote for you

2:44:22and it says of right happening across our city, that's great.

2:44:26What time is here?

2:44:27We are going to now, let's see,

2:44:29we're gonna take, let me just have a moment

2:44:31to confer with the clerks for a moment.

2:45:12Okay, so this is what we're gonna do everybody.

2:45:16If nobody from council asks anybody any questions

2:45:20of the delegates, which is rare,

2:45:23and every delegate takes 10 minutes,

2:45:26we have like two and a half hours of delegates.

2:45:29So we appreciate everyone that signed up,

2:45:33whoever, from an agenda management point of view.

2:45:38I think we're gonna take a break,

2:45:39that makes sense, everyone, all of us can get up

2:45:41and just walk around and get the blood flowing a little bit.

2:45:45So let's do that, it's 5.37.

2:45:49I would suggest that we take a 10 minute break right now

2:45:54and then come back and we will start into the delegations.

2:46:01And just as a heads up,

2:46:02I might as well just say it right now,

2:46:04just so that if they're in the room.

2:46:08I will go to, let's see here,

2:46:12I will go to like, how about,

2:46:16about halfway through there.

2:46:18So Morgan Dandy is usually here.

2:46:21Morgan, are you here?

2:46:23Oh, I see your hand.

2:46:25Okay, I'm gonna do the delegation list to Morgan

2:46:28and then we're gonna probably do another 20 minute break.

2:46:32And then we'll continue with the rest.

2:46:33I just wanna give everyone that heads up,

2:46:35especially if you are on the list

2:46:37and you are after Morgan.

2:46:38Okay, so let's take a 10 minute break right now

2:46:42and we will see everyone back here in that 10 minutes.

2:46:45Okay, thank you.

2:55:03Okay, everyone, we're gonna call the meeting back to order.

2:55:32Okay, okay, everyone, if everyone could take a seat for me,

2:55:39I'd appreciate it.

2:55:42I do have a gavel.

2:56:07Hey everyone, everyone in the gallery,

2:56:10everyone in the gallery,

2:56:12if I could please ask you to sit down.

2:56:14We've got a long agenda item

2:56:15and that's the third time I've had to ask,

2:56:18like my parents just don't let me get,

2:56:20don't make me count to three.

2:56:23Yeah, so yeah, if you could please take a seat,

2:56:26that would be great.

2:56:28Linda, a counselor, Bousatel has handed me the gavel.

2:56:34I've used it once in 10 years.

2:56:36So don't, I call it the Thor hammer.

2:56:39Don't let me have to use that, okay?

2:56:41I'll put it here.

2:56:42I haven't seen that in a long time.

2:56:44The reason why I haven't seen that in a long time

2:56:46is because we've never had to use it.

2:56:47It's been that good in here.

2:56:48So let's keep it that way.

2:56:51Let's continue on.

2:56:52We are now to the final recommended

2:56:57housing affordability strategy.

2:56:59Now we're gonna have staff again kick us off

2:57:03with a presentation.

2:57:05And then there's quite a few delegations.

2:57:09And so I would really ask, especially the delegates,

2:57:14to really, really listen to our staff presentation,

2:57:19especially the reason why we are here tonight,

2:57:22so that your delegations can actually align

2:57:27with what we're talking about tonight.

2:57:29I am going to be a stickler on that as the chair.

2:57:33So please listen to what our staff

2:57:36are indicating in their presentation.

2:57:39And make sure, of course, you've read the reports, I'm sure.

2:57:42And that's the reason why we are here tonight.

2:57:45And that's where we wanna make sure

2:57:46that we maintain the conversation.

2:57:49With that, Kuschel is gonna come right back on up again.

2:57:55And Lucas as well, you're getting ready.

2:57:57So the two of you can take us through the presentation.

2:58:00Go right ahead.

2:58:02Okay, great.

2:58:03Hello again, Mayor Guthrie and members of council.

2:58:06So we are pleased again to be here this evening

2:58:09to present to you the final recommended 10 year

2:58:12housing affordability strategy,

2:58:14which has been about a year in the making,

2:58:16has been developed with significant community conversations,

2:58:20as well as with the team at the city,

2:58:22and various, and works to complement

2:58:25various other municipal plans and strategies

2:58:27to address housing supply,

2:58:29including our growth management strategy and official plan.

2:58:33This strategy is also a complimentary piece

2:58:36to the county's 10 year housing and homelessness plan.

2:58:43So let's start by creating a common understanding

2:58:46of the focus of this strategy.

2:58:50As we've talked about before,

2:58:51the term affordable housing can have multiple meanings.

2:58:56For some, it can mean housing for people on social assistance.

2:59:00For others, it can mean housing

2:59:02that is owned by the government.

2:59:05Or it can mean housing not built

2:59:07by the development industry.

2:59:10However, as we have been clear

2:59:12with from the launch of this project,

2:59:14this strategy focuses on private market

2:59:17or just below market affordable housing.

2:59:20And the reasons for this are very specific.

2:59:24First, we need to be consistent

2:59:26with the province's definition,

2:59:28which I'll go over in a minute.

2:59:30Second, the tools that we have available to us

2:59:34as a municipality.

2:59:35So things like research and policy creation,

2:59:38capacity building, advocacy,

2:59:41and some financial resources

2:59:43allow us to best contribute to bring on units

2:59:47that target this range of affordability.

2:59:51So while this is the focus of the strategy

2:59:53that private market and just below market,

2:59:57we will continue to work with and elevate

2:59:59how we collaborate with the county and partners

3:00:03to support the creation of housing units

3:00:05that may not fall within what is affordable market ownership

3:00:10or affordable market rentals.

3:00:15So turning our eyes towards Guelph's overall housing need

3:00:19from 2024 to 2051.

3:00:21And as a reminder, this was shared

3:00:24at the October 8th meeting.

3:00:26We need approximately 26,000 units

3:00:28to accommodate our projected population

3:00:31of 208,000 residents by 2051.

3:00:36These approximately 26,000 units are in addition

3:00:40to the approximately 60,000 units

3:00:43that we have in Guelph today.

3:00:46Our colleagues at Watson and Associates

3:00:47who are here with us virtually today,

3:00:49should you have any questions on the analysis,

3:00:52broke this need down even further

3:00:55using the provincial definition of affordability.

3:00:58And these numbers are what you see

3:00:59in this table on the screen.

3:01:02So zeroing in on the top row, the affordable row,

3:01:06we can see that 2,640 affordable ownership units are needed.

3:01:126,060 affordable rental units are needed

3:01:16for a total of 8,700 affordable units needed overall.

3:01:22And before we leave this slide,

3:01:23I wanted to emphasize a few things.

3:01:26First, the need that we see here is significant

3:01:30and the leading contributing factor is arguably

3:01:34a lack of significant investment

3:01:36in social and subsidized housing

3:01:38by upper levels of government since the 1990s

3:01:42when this used to be the case.

3:01:45Second, achieving these numbers is largely aspirational.

3:01:49Again, because it would mean we would need millions

3:01:52upon millions of dollars on an annual basis

3:01:55from those upper levels of government.

3:01:58Finally, achievement of these units

3:02:01is a collaborative effort with the city

3:02:04being one of the contributors,

3:02:05but not the only contributor to achieving these units.

3:02:12So because this strategy is about affordability,

3:02:16let's quickly go over what can sometimes be

3:02:18an area of confusion.

3:02:20So is there a difference between how the federal government

3:02:23and provincial governments define this term,

3:02:26more specifically from an income-based perspective?

3:02:30The short answer is no.

3:02:32In both the federal and provincial definitions,

3:02:35a unit is affordable if it costs less than 30%

3:02:39of a household's before tax income.

3:02:42The province, however, does add more specificity

3:02:46by stating that this 30% is for low

3:02:49to moderate income households.

3:02:52This means that those households that fall

3:02:54within the 30th to 60th income percentiles

3:02:59are what are considered low to moderate income households.

3:03:02So to ground this a bit more for Guelph,

3:03:05from an ownership perspective,

3:03:07those households that make between 68,000 to 125,000

3:03:14are what's considered affordable, low to moderate,

3:03:18from an ownership perspective.

3:03:20And this captures approximately 40% of Guelph's population.

3:03:24From a renter's perspective,

3:03:26this means a household income of low to moderate

3:03:30of between 46,000 to $83,000.

3:03:34Again, that is the focus of this strategy.

3:03:38As a municipality, we are required to use

3:03:40the definition of affordable provided by the province.

3:03:44And subsequently, this also means that the analysis

3:03:47that we completed to determine housing need

3:03:49to the year 2051 also uses this definition.

3:03:57The province also released a bulletin

3:03:59that summarizes both market-based

3:04:00and income-based prices for housing units.

3:04:03And you'll recall that through the provincial definition

3:04:06of affordability, we are to take whatever threshold

3:04:09is lower as that year's affordability benchmark.

3:04:14So in the case of ownership units,

3:04:16because the income-based prices are lower,

3:04:20this is what becomes what is considered

3:04:23an affordable unit price in 2024.

3:04:26In Guelph's case, an affordable unit price

3:04:29is $398,800 for ownership.

3:04:36So going back a few slides to the one

3:04:39with the overall need, the table,

3:04:41with all the numbers in it.

3:04:44So going back to that, from an ownership perspective,

3:04:47this means having actions that best facilitate 2640

3:04:51affordable ownership units by 2051.

3:04:55In terms of the 10-year lifetime of this strategy,

3:04:58that's the equivalent of facilitating about 980 units.

3:05:06So similarly, the province has determined

3:05:09what is considered affordable based on rental units.

3:05:14In this case, because the market-based threshold

3:05:16is lower than the income-based threshold,

3:05:20it is the market-based rental prices

3:05:22that prevail as shown in the blue column.

3:05:25This is what is considered

3:05:26an affordable rental price in Guelph.

3:05:29We are fully aware that both the ownership

3:05:32and rental prices as shared in the provincial bulletin

3:05:35are not what our community are actually able to afford.

3:05:40It is extremely rare that units are sold

3:05:44for below $398,800.

3:05:48And at the same time, it is also extremely rare

3:05:51to find units that are rented

3:05:53at the prices that you currently see on the screen.

3:05:56So as embedded within the actions of this strategy,

3:06:00we will continue to advocate for better alignment

3:06:03between the definitions.

3:06:05However, we are still required to use the definition

3:06:07as provided by the province.

3:06:13So in terms of looking at rent,

3:06:15we just looked at ownership needs and now rental needs.

3:06:18We broke this down even further

3:06:20for the overall 6,060 units needed.

3:06:23And this table illustrates need along a range of affordability

3:06:27based on average market rents.

3:06:30So as mentioned earlier,

3:06:32and throughout the drafting of the strategy,

3:06:35the actions will focus on facilitating the creation

3:06:38of those units in the 80% to 100% average market rents

3:06:43or just below market.

3:06:46And so what's really important to remember

3:06:49is we will continue to support the creation of units

3:06:52that are outside of this range.

3:06:55The actions in this strategy

3:06:56have been crafted to ensure that we will continue

3:06:58to be open to and potentially elevate our ability

3:07:01to work with others in partnership.

3:07:07So before we move into the actions

3:07:10and how they've been prioritized,

3:07:12we wanted to quickly touch on what the city can do

3:07:14and cannot do when it comes to housing supply.

3:07:19We can determine how land is used.

3:07:22We can and have created policies that speak

3:07:25to how many, what type,

3:07:28and where units can be built around the city.

3:07:31We can provide financial incentives

3:07:33to encourage housing development,

3:07:35recognizing that municipalities

3:07:37are under incredible financial pressures

3:07:40due to recent legislative changes

3:07:42that have limited how we can pay for growth.

3:07:46We can and have created policies

3:07:48that speak to supporting a full range of housing types.

3:07:54Where we are limited is that we cannot make someone build

3:07:58affordable housing.

3:08:00We cannot make a builder build within a certain timeframe.

3:08:04We have no control over provincial

3:08:06or federal legislation.

3:08:09As part of our engagement,

3:08:10we've heard from many people about the importance

3:08:14of affordable housing for specific demographic groups.

3:08:18For example, seniors, single parent households,

3:08:22youths, and students.

3:08:24While from a policy perspective, we cannot people zone.

3:08:29The city has supported a number

3:08:30of affordable housing projects in partnership

3:08:33with our colleagues at Wellington County

3:08:35to deliver housing to these groups.

3:08:38To provide a few examples of these partnerships,

3:08:41a dedicated seniors community at Silver Maple,

3:08:44Michael House that provides pregnancy

3:08:46and parenting support services.

3:08:48And most recently, on October 8th,

3:08:50we initiated the process

3:08:52for an affordable housing demonstration project

3:08:54on Forty-Neddenboro Road,

3:08:56where council passed a motion

3:08:58that a minimum of three units

3:08:59in this project be wheelchair accessible.

3:09:03As you'll hear from Lucas in a few minutes,

3:09:05the framework that is offered through this strategy

3:09:09continues to enable these partnerships.

3:09:13The final point that we are limited is in terms

3:09:15of we have no ability to influence the sale

3:09:18or rental prices within the private market.

3:09:25So as just mentioned, one of the areas we do have

3:09:28some influences with a policy tool.

3:09:30And that is the reason why this is a formal public meeting.

3:09:34We are proposing an official plan amendment

3:09:36to align our current official plan policy

3:09:39on affordable housing targets based

3:09:41on the updated analysis.

3:09:44We are proposing to increase the target

3:09:45for new residential development of affordable housing

3:09:48to 33% from 30% and are offering an amended breakdown

3:09:54between affordable ownership units

3:09:56and affordable rental units

3:09:58that better reflects the projected need

3:10:00for more primary rental units to 2051.

3:10:04Again, here we need to emphasize

3:10:07that these targets take into consideration

3:10:09the overall housing, affordable housing need.

3:10:13And it includes contributions that the city can make,

3:10:16but it is not isolated to only the city.

3:10:20This target always has and will continue

3:10:23to include the contributions that the county makes

3:10:26as our consolidated municipal service manager

3:10:29to the administration and delivery

3:10:31of deeply affordable housing and affordable housing

3:10:33like supportive housing, social or rent gear

3:10:36to income housing.

3:10:42So moving into the strategy and the vision,

3:10:45this vision was written from the perspective

3:10:47of where we would like to be in 10 years

3:10:50once we have implemented the actions from this strategy.

3:10:54It speaks to being a welcoming community

3:10:56that leans in on Guelph's commitment

3:10:59to the availability of diverse housing options

3:11:01as a human right.

3:11:03Options that are affordable, accessible and suitable

3:11:06regardless of one situation in life.

3:11:09It speaks to partnerships

3:11:11and it also speaks to emerging as leaders.

3:11:18This strategy is also organized

3:11:20around three high level goals

3:11:22that speak to access to housing that again,

3:11:24it's affordable across the city

3:11:27that contributes to diverse and inclusive housing options

3:11:31and that everyone's aware and shares the importance

3:11:33of long-term housing options.

3:11:36And with that, I'd like to invite Lucas up

3:11:38to go over the actions and how they've been prioritized.

3:11:45Thank you, Kishle.

3:11:46So as a reminder, the actions

3:11:48in our housing affordability strategy

3:11:51were crafted with significant public engagement

3:11:54over the past few months.

3:11:56As part of this engagement,

3:11:57we did hear from a number of folks

3:11:59who do not typically intend city engagement events

3:12:02including folks with lived experience.

3:12:04This includes individuals who are a part

3:12:06of our housing affordability strategy focus group.

3:12:09And I wanted to take some time tonight

3:12:11to thank them publicly for their vigorous

3:12:13and spirited engagement in the process.

3:12:16Throughout all of the engagement events we did hold,

3:12:19we consistently heard the same message, be bold.

3:12:23For us, boldness means considering

3:12:25and implementing actions that push beyond

3:12:28what the city has done in the past

3:12:31to consider and determine how we can be a change maker

3:12:34for affordable housing policy and development.

3:12:37We also have more actions in this strategy than ever before.

3:12:42As this is a 10 year strategy,

3:12:44we need to prioritize the actions

3:12:46so we have clarity on what work will happen

3:12:48and when that work will happen.

3:12:51Since we prepared the draft housing affordability strategy

3:12:55on October 8th, we've been preparing

3:12:59that prioritization of the actions

3:13:00through an implementation and monitoring plan.

3:13:03You can find that as appendix one

3:13:05of the housing affordability strategy.

3:13:07We've also isolated that plan as attachment three

3:13:10just for ease of reference.

3:13:12As I mentioned on the previous slide,

3:13:14prioritization will set up the work plan

3:13:16over the next 10 years.

3:13:18So as we have conversations tonight

3:13:20about how the actions have been prioritized,

3:13:22it is critical to remember that staff applied

3:13:25specific criteria to determine that prioritization

3:13:29and that all actions in the housing affordability strategy

3:13:32are important.

3:13:34That's why they've made it into the final version

3:13:35that staff are recommending.

3:13:41So the prioritization assessment criteria staff applied

3:13:44are shown on this slide.

3:13:45We're gonna focus in on the first three

3:13:47as budget came in at the end

3:13:49and we didn't want it to color the primary assessment

3:13:51of the actions.

3:13:53So these criteria are impact

3:13:56or what actions have the greatest potential

3:13:58to create more units, including affordable units

3:14:00that meet the definition that Kusla just went over.

3:14:04Timeline, how long will it take

3:14:06for staff to complete the action?

3:14:08Is it a quick win or is it something

3:14:10that needs careful planning and analysis

3:14:12before implementation?

3:14:15Alignment, has council provided direction on this already?

3:14:18Do we have any short-term contractual commitments

3:14:21to implement certain actions?

3:14:23Does the action align with our strategic plan

3:14:26or have we made any commitments

3:14:27to various agencies in our community?

3:14:30So I mentioned that budget came in at the end.

3:14:33For most of the actions in our housing affordability strategy,

3:14:36we do have existing financial resources to do this work,

3:14:39but some of the actions will require more analysis

3:14:43and evaluation to be completed first

3:14:46and then we would be coming back to council

3:14:48with subsequent reports

3:14:50that would have more specific budget asks.

3:14:55So our first priority or bucket of actions

3:14:58are our housing accelerator fund or half related actions.

3:15:02The reasons for this is that we have a short-term

3:15:05contractual obligation

3:15:06under our housing accelerator fund action plan.

3:15:09As council is aware, many of these actions

3:15:12have been in front of council in some form,

3:15:14are undergoing public engagement

3:15:16or have sought a decision tonight.

3:15:19Two of the actions in particular,

3:15:21I wanna highlight our action 1.1.3 and 1.2.1.

3:15:27As part of our engagement process,

3:15:29we've heard from many individuals that it is time

3:15:31for the city to start building affordable housing ourselves,

3:15:34potentially on city-owned land.

3:15:37We wanna seriously evaluate that option early

3:15:39in our implementation of the strategy,

3:15:41as there are many actions that depend on the outcome

3:15:44of that particular action.

3:15:46Also, for the benefit of council,

3:15:48we do expect that this evaluation would come back

3:15:50through subsequent staff report

3:15:52and it would consider potential options

3:15:54as well as the financial implications for those options.

3:16:01So the next two slides cover timelines

3:16:03for housing accelerator fund related actions.

3:16:06It's very fair to say that a lot of housing work

3:16:08is going on at the city right now,

3:16:09which will have long-term benefits for getting more housing,

3:16:12including affordable housing built faster.

3:16:17Many of the actions on this slide

3:16:18include infrastructure-related work

3:16:20that will enable development growth

3:16:22in key strategic areas of the city,

3:16:24including our downtown, the Guelph Innovation District,

3:16:27and the Claremulti Secondary Plan area.

3:16:30This work will take more time to implement,

3:16:32but we'll set up these areas for growth for the long-term.

3:16:40Our next bucket of actions is our high priority actions.

3:16:43Also wanted to clarify that we use the term bucket

3:16:46as the listing of the actions in this table

3:16:48and in the tables to come are not in any particular order

3:16:51in terms of how or when they're implemented,

3:16:53they're grouped together.

3:16:55As Kuchla mentioned,

3:16:56our affordable housing targets are aspirational,

3:16:59but that doesn't mean that all of us won't be doing our best

3:17:01with the tools that we have to support all kinds

3:17:04of affordable housing in the city.

3:17:06We also know that sometimes tools may rest

3:17:10in other levels of government,

3:17:11and that's why continued and ongoing advocacy

3:17:14is so important,

3:17:15so we have the resources available to achieve those targets.

3:17:20As we move to the medium priority actions,

3:17:23I just want to remind Council again

3:17:25of the prioritization criteria we used,

3:17:27impact, timeline, alignment, and budget.

3:17:32As I mentioned earlier tonight,

3:17:33we are open to having conversations on the prioritization

3:17:36and we'll ultimately seek Council direction

3:17:38on where actions end up.

3:17:41Some of the actions here have already been done before,

3:17:44such as issuing a call for land.

3:17:46However, we know considerations and decisions

3:17:48on property can change,

3:17:50so the city wants to be at the top of the list

3:17:52for when a property owner is considering

3:17:54dispossessing their land.

3:17:55As well, other actions here require more information or data

3:17:59before we can have a clear indication on potential impact.

3:18:03Again, staff are understanding

3:18:05that the prioritization criteria or other considerations

3:18:09may not align with what others think

3:18:11of what actions we should be taking and when,

3:18:14but this is what staff is presenting to Council

3:18:16using the criteria I mentioned,

3:18:18and we look forward to hearing

3:18:19about those other considerations tonight.

3:18:24Finally, as we get to our last bucket of actions,

3:18:27I also want to reiterate again

3:18:28that all actions in the strategy are important to us.

3:18:31However, some of the actions in our low priority bucket

3:18:35may depend on outcomes of high priority actions,

3:18:37or they may not have the most significant impact

3:18:40in delivering affordable housing.

3:18:41They may require more data to achieve,

3:18:44or their ongoing work.

3:18:46So for example, action 1.2.2 regarding equity deserving

3:18:50housing is dependent on the outcome of us evaluating our role

3:18:55in the city's land strategy.

3:18:56So that work needs to come first

3:18:58so we can make informed decisions

3:19:00on where this equity deserving housing may go

3:19:03and how involved the city may be in the development.

3:19:08So that is the prioritization of the summarized actions.

3:19:11If you read through Appendix 1

3:19:12or Attachment 3 of the staff report,

3:19:14there's a lot more information there,

3:19:16including full action titles,

3:19:18the scope of work involved,

3:19:19whether the action is resourced,

3:19:21links to our State of Housing report,

3:19:23which was the catalyst for this strategy,

3:19:26and what municipal tools we are using

3:19:28to support each action.

3:19:30As well, we also have approximately 50 unique indicators

3:19:34to monitor action outcomes

3:19:35in the housing affordability strategy.

3:19:38These indicators will be reported on

3:19:40the practice council and the public.

3:19:42Most of these indicators have data available

3:19:45on an annual basis,

3:19:46but we've also noted specific instances of cadence,

3:19:49and some of the indicators may also be limited

3:19:51by data quality,

3:19:53which will be mentioned as part of that future reporting.

3:19:58Finally, Attachment 4 contains several proformas

3:20:02for seven affordable housing development scenarios.

3:20:05A proforma is an economic projection tool

3:20:08that estimates potential revenues,

3:20:10expenses, and profitability of a development project.

3:20:13Proformas are based on assumptions and calculations,

3:20:17and they must be based on reliable information

3:20:20to create an accurate projection

3:20:22of the viability of a development.

3:20:24I wanna stress to council that the proformas included here

3:20:27should be considered very preliminary,

3:20:29and are just to provide some high-level information

3:20:32on potential costs and revenues

3:20:34associated with the various scenarios.

3:20:36More work will certainly be required,

3:20:38including introducing significant sensitivity tweaking

3:20:41for these scenarios to potentially become

3:20:43a real project in Guelph,

3:20:45which will then have further implications

3:20:48on the costs and revenues shown.

3:20:52So with that, I can close the presentation.

3:20:54These are staff's recommendations,

3:20:55and we're happy to answer any questions

3:20:57at the appropriate time.

3:20:59Thank you both for a very thorough presentation,

3:21:03and we really do appreciate it.

3:21:08As I said that we have many delegations,

3:21:10so we're gonna jump into that,

3:21:12and then we'll save questions that might come up

3:21:15to you as well.

3:21:17So again, no more than 10 minutes,

3:21:20and you will hear a chime at the nine-minute 30-second mark

3:21:24as a warning.

3:21:26If we get there, Susan Watson is already here.

3:21:30Thank you for joining us.

3:21:31Daniel Siegel is Daniel here?

3:21:34Video? Okay, maybe you heard me.

3:21:36You'll be in the wings on video.

3:21:40So welcome, Susan.

3:21:40Now you know the drill, I'll turn it over to you.

3:21:42Go ahead, head.

3:21:43Thank you.

3:21:44Mayor Guthrie and members of council,

3:21:46I'm gonna start with a pretty straightforward ask.

3:21:49Please put forward a motion this evening

3:21:52to move a vacant home tax and a vacant home registry

3:21:56from the medium priority bucket to the high priority bucket

3:22:01before you approve the overall

3:22:03housing affordability strategy.

3:22:06This is such low-hanging fruit that it's a no-brainer.

3:22:10Even Doug Ford's spring budget speech

3:22:12contained the line, an unoccupied home is unacceptable

3:22:17in a housing crisis.

3:22:19To draw a parallel, you can't buy a farm

3:22:22and take the farmland out of production

3:22:25without paying a hefty price through increased taxes.

3:22:28That tax disincentive recognizes

3:22:31the public benefit of productive farmland.

3:22:34Likewise, there is a negative impact on a community

3:22:37when buildings that could house people

3:22:39are withdrawn from the rental or sale market.

3:22:43Other municipalities are leaving us in the rearview mirror

3:22:46when it comes to taking action on this file.

3:22:49Toronto, Ottawa, Hamilton, Windsor, and Sault Ste. Marie

3:22:53currently all have vacancy taxes.

3:22:56We don't even have to reinvent the wheel.

3:22:59There are nine unoccupied homes

3:23:02within one kilometer of my house in the downtown.

3:23:06One of them is a beautiful detached brick heritage house

3:23:10which has sat vacant for 15 years.

3:23:15It was astounding to me that the consultants report

3:23:18we paid for on a vacancy tax

3:23:19failed to account for the public money

3:23:22that is saved when existing housing is optimized.

3:23:26Under new legislation, in certain cases,

3:23:29development charges can be completely waived

3:23:32for affordable or attainable housing,

3:23:35which means citizens can find themselves on the hook

3:23:37for a whopping public subsidy of $86,000 per detached house.

3:23:45Activating the nine houses in my neighborhood

3:23:48could save $774,000, three quarters of a million dollars

3:23:54of public money of what it would cost

3:23:56to subsidize nine new houses in a green field.

3:24:00Doug Ford isn't talking about his housing program anymore

3:24:04because it's been an abject failure.

3:24:07This past year has had the lowest housing start seen

3:24:10in almost 70 years.

3:24:13So I think it would be a good idea

3:24:14to start focusing on optimizing the housing

3:24:17we already have built,

3:24:19rather than participating in Doug's Ford's

3:24:21delusional fantasies about the private sector.

3:24:25And what if the owners of these nine houses

3:24:27decided to keep them vacant?

3:24:29If we assume a nice round figure

3:24:31that each house has an M-PAC assessment

3:24:33of half a million, $500,000 each,

3:24:36and then is taxed at Sault Ste. Marie's rate of 4%,

3:24:41those nine houses would generate revenue

3:24:43of $180,000 annually.

3:24:47That would be more than enough to pay for a staff person

3:24:49to administer this program,

3:24:51likely with lots left over.

3:24:54In two years, 2022 and 2023,

3:24:57the City of Toronto generated $106 million

3:25:01from their vacant home tax.

3:25:03For 2024, they've jacked the rate to 3%,

3:25:06and this year they expect to generate $105 million

3:25:10for this year alone.

3:25:12More importantly, the City of Toronto website

3:25:15states the following.

3:25:17The city anticipates that the higher taxation rate

3:25:21will encourage more previously vacant homes

3:25:23to be put on the market,

3:25:25helping to increase housing availability.

3:25:29So my message around a vacant home's tax

3:25:32is prioritize it and just do it.

3:25:37And now I wanna pivot to the humanitarian crisis

3:25:42that is unfolding in front of all of us,

3:25:45and the older I get and the more I see it,

3:25:47I don't find it any easier to deal with.

3:25:50There's an encampment of around 25 tents

3:25:54at the church I attend in Toronto,

3:25:56right beside the Toronto Eden Centre.

3:25:57This is an issue everywhere,

3:25:59and on every block there's someone sleeping

3:26:02on top of a heating vent, just trying to stay alive.

3:26:08Overall, in OECD countries,

3:26:11an average of 7% of the housing stock

3:26:14is government-owned social housing.

3:26:17Canada's rate is half that, at 3.5%.

3:26:23I learned from a recent Toronto Star article

3:26:25that Helsinki, Finland has essentially solved

3:26:29their homelessness problem with constant government

3:26:32investment, which now puts public social housing

3:26:35at 15% of their housing stock.

3:26:39In Vienna, Austria, that city's government

3:26:42owns and manages 25% of the housing stock,

3:26:47220,000 units, which are primarily

3:26:51for lower income residents.

3:26:54The fact that unprecedented numbers of Canadians

3:26:59cannot afford a roof over their heads,

3:27:03and are sleeping in tents or on heating vents

3:27:06simply to survive, is the culmination of 30 years

3:27:10of abject policy failure at all three levels of government.

3:27:16This experimentation with the private sector

3:27:19has been a complete and utter disaster,

3:27:21and it is time for it to end.

3:27:25Mayor Guthrie, you should be calling on Doug Ford

3:27:27to declare a state of emergency,

3:27:29not to invoke the notwithstanding clause.

3:27:33And I wanna be crystal clear for everyone

3:27:36what invoking that clause involves.

3:27:39It means overriding the charter rights

3:27:43of some of our most vulnerable citizens.

3:27:46So I'm gonna just jump in.

3:27:47Are we gonna talk about the affordable housing strategy?

3:27:52This is related in terms of where?

3:27:54Okay, keep going.

3:27:55I just wanna make sure we're on track.

3:27:57Go on, keep going.

3:27:58Thank you very much.

3:28:00Municipal governments have the right to clear encampments,

3:28:04but only if there is appropriate housing available

3:28:07for the individuals living in the encampment.

3:28:11What Mayor Guthrie is asking for is the right

3:28:14to dislocate unhoused people who are just trying to survive

3:28:18when they have no place else to go.

3:28:25The section of the charter that is at stake here,

3:28:28section seven, is our individual right to life,

3:28:32liberty, and security of person.

3:28:35And the charter exists precisely to protect us

3:28:38from government decisions.

3:28:39Again, are we gonna get to the meat of the report

3:28:42and the strategies that are ahead of us?

3:28:45I just wanna make sure,

3:28:46because we can't have two hours of people

3:28:50not speaking to the report.

3:28:51And I am just doing my job as the chair.

3:28:54We gotta make sure we're speaking to the report.

3:28:57So are we gonna get to that?

3:28:58Yes, if we're having an affordable housing strategy,

3:29:02it needs to focus on housing people who are homeless,

3:29:06not just people who are making between $60,000

3:29:09and $90,000 a year.

3:29:15What we're seeing is our mayor asking Doug Ford

3:29:18to allow him to override people's right to life.

3:29:22This would not just be a profound violation

3:29:25of our collective and individual rights,

3:29:27but a violation of internationally recognized human rights.

3:29:33Article three of the Universal Declaration

3:29:35of Human Rights exactly mirrors section seven of our charter.

3:29:40Everyone has the right to life, liberty,

3:29:44and security of person.

3:29:46And Mayor Guthrie, if you are unwilling

3:29:48to uphold Canadians' charter rights

3:29:52and internationally recognized human rights

3:29:55for the citizens of Guelph,

3:29:57as they pertain to simply staying alive,

3:30:01if you're not willing to do that,

3:30:02then I think you should resign.

3:30:06Okay, so we didn't get to the,

3:30:09we didn't get to anything in the report then, you're done?

3:30:12Did you hear what I had to say about the vacancy tax?

3:30:14I certainly did, but we'll leave it at that then.

3:30:17Is there any questions?

3:30:18And I do understand that there is a motion pertaining

3:30:21to this coming forward relating to the housing strategy.

3:30:24Today I read about that in Guelph today.

3:30:26Yeah, so you're wrong, that's tomorrow,

3:30:28that's not on the report for today,

3:30:29it's not on the agenda at all for today,

3:30:31which is why three times had to interject,

3:30:35because you're not speaking to the report.

3:30:36And I made it very clear to everyone here,

3:30:38as the chair, we need to make sure

3:30:41that we are maintaining our speaking to the report.

3:30:43You didn't do that, you're done now.

3:30:46So we're gonna stop there.

3:30:47So everyone can think about what you said

3:30:49for tomorrow's agenda, not today's,

3:30:52but is there any questions to the delegate at all?

3:30:56Okay, thank you very much.

3:30:57We're gonna move on to Daniel Siegel,

3:30:59who's gonna be joining us by video.

3:31:02And I would just ask that everyone please,

3:31:06don't put me in the position,

3:31:08to have to do what I already indicated,

3:31:11which is please speak to the actual agenda item

3:31:13that is in front of us.

3:31:14That's what we have to do here, okay?

3:31:16So speak to the agenda item that is in front of us.

3:31:19Is Daniel...

3:31:21Yep, hi there.

3:31:23Sorry, is it Daniel?

3:31:24Yes, Daniel.

3:31:25Daniel, thank you for inviting me this evening

3:31:27to your council meeting.

3:31:30My name is Daniel Siegel.

3:31:31I'm a Tarion builder who's been doing laneway houses

3:31:34and garden suites in Toronto and Hamilton since 2020.

3:31:38I've done one of the first garden suites in Toronto,

3:31:40one of the first laneway houses in Toronto,

3:31:42one of the first laneway houses in Hamilton.

3:31:45This is about my 45th delegation

3:31:48that I've done on affordable home ownership.

3:31:51And I wanted to directly jump in.

3:31:55My goal is to build 1000 units at or below

3:31:58the provincial detached purchase price

3:32:02for an affordable house,

3:32:03which in Guelph as in your presentation

3:32:06was $398,000 roughly,

3:32:10which is interesting because,

3:32:12when you compare that number to Toronto,

3:32:13it's actually higher than Toronto.

3:32:14And I'm not sure how they came up with these numbers,

3:32:16but in any case, that's my goal.

3:32:20I wanted to start with hope.

3:32:23I think that there's really good models south of the border

3:32:26for creating affordable housing.

3:32:28I would first point to Muskegon, Michigan,

3:32:30and Jake Eckhart who's been very successful

3:32:35at creating affordable houses since 2016.

3:32:38He's built about 200 of them,

3:32:40which I think would be comparable

3:32:42to what Guelph is looking to achieve.

3:32:44And they're doing it as a municipal developer.

3:32:48And I think that we could literally copy and paste

3:32:52successful policies, bylaws directly

3:32:56from our neighbor south of the border,

3:32:58that everything's fully available.

3:32:59And I'd be happy to go through staff with staff

3:33:02to highlight the appropriate sections

3:33:05and figure out how it's done.

3:33:07I've had a little bit of help developing this model

3:33:09from a fellow named James Tischler.

3:33:12He's at Michigan Lang Bank.

3:33:15But basically my goal here is to come before

3:33:17different municipalities and say,

3:33:18hey, I build tiny houses and I've been doing that

3:33:24for a while and I think I could help you.

3:33:27And in doing so, I wanna just very superficially go

3:33:33through some of the tenants that allow

3:33:35for affordable home ownership.

3:33:37The first principle is if you detach the value of the land

3:33:41from the value of the house, it becomes a long year.

3:33:43Sorry, Daniel, I'm gonna ask the clerk to stop the time

3:33:48that you have.

3:33:49Daniel, we don't allow people to come forward

3:33:53that are trying to sell us something,

3:33:56a product or a service that they are.

3:33:59We need people to speak to the actual agenda item

3:34:02and the report that is in front of us.

3:34:04And so I just wanna be cautioned.

3:34:06I wanna caution you that you stick to actually speaking

3:34:10to the report and not to kind of merge into the services

3:34:15that you provide, this isn't a form for that.

3:34:18So can you just acknowledge that

3:34:21and I'll let you the time continue for you.

3:34:23But you can't be kind of speaking

3:34:25about the services that you provide, okay?

3:34:28I don't think I even went into the services,

3:34:30but I will take that into account.

3:34:34Let's continue the time.

3:34:35Thank you so much.

3:34:36Yeah.

3:34:37So based on, if you're able to separate the value

3:34:43of the land from the value of the house,

3:34:44it becomes feasible to sell at or below a purchase price

3:34:48of $398,000.

3:34:51And I wanted to pick up from where Ms. Craig was talking

3:34:54about community land trusts and using special vehicles

3:34:58to ensure long-term affordability of houses

3:35:01that I think is really the future.

3:35:04And I think that one of the obstacles municipalities

3:35:07across the province come across when they wanna become

3:35:10developers is that they lack the internal staff.

3:35:13And this is where municipal housing corporations come in

3:35:17and they work with community land trusts to use principles

3:35:20of equity sharing as property values go up

3:35:24to maintain future affordability.

3:35:25So when I had a presentation with the mayor of Newmarket,

3:35:30John Taylor, he said, Dan, I don't really like your model

3:35:33because it's kind of like a lottery.

3:35:36And I think that is a significant risk

3:35:38when you do create affordable housing

3:35:41that the first person who's able to buy that affordable house

3:35:44gets a deal.

3:35:45And what we have to figure out is how to make sure

3:35:48that when you make an affordable house,

3:35:50it doesn't just get flipped three years later

3:35:52for three times the price.

3:35:54And so with that, I just wanna talk about something

3:35:58that counselor Alts mentioned, or at least was getting at

3:36:01when he was asking Ms. Craig about how do we make homes

3:36:06and not investment properties?

3:36:08And the key to that is then subdividing the idea

3:36:11of doing four units on a property from somebody

3:36:14who could afford to build a million and a half dollars

3:36:17worth of houses to being able to have shares

3:36:21in that particular lot either set up as a condo corp,

3:36:26community land trust, a co-op,

3:36:28or even as they do in Rideau Lakes

3:36:32where they have a cluster of tiny dwellings.

3:36:35And I think there really has to be a little bit more

3:36:38discussion about how we steer creation of housing

3:36:45towards homes and not investment vehicles for people.

3:36:49And I think really the future is community land trust,

3:36:53co-ops, condos and these tiny dwelling communities.

3:36:56So with that, I'm not gonna take up any more of your time

3:36:59but I seriously applied the work that you're doing.

3:37:02I think it's super important.

3:37:04I put you up there with some of the most progressive

3:37:06municipalities that I've done delegations for.

3:37:09And I think affordable home ownership is a very strong

3:37:14solution to the housing crisis.

3:37:16It's a supply-driven solution.

3:37:17And I think there's very good data supporting

3:37:22creation of new houses as a solution.

3:37:25So with that, I wanna thank you for your time.

3:37:28And I'm here to answer any questions you may have.

3:37:32Thank you so much for your presentation.

3:37:33Thanks for getting through that with us.

3:37:35Councillor Allt has a question for you.

3:37:38Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

3:37:40Through you to the delegate.

3:37:42Mr. Siegel, you piqued my interest,

3:37:45especially when you raised my name.

3:37:47But I'm hoping that you can help me to understand

3:37:50a little bit the co-op ownership model

3:37:53and the legality of it in Ontario,

3:37:55especially combined with land trusts.

3:37:58I need a little bit of education on this,

3:38:00somewhat familiar, but not enough to really get a grasp.

3:38:05So,

3:38:08let's just break it down to a very simple idea.

3:38:13So you own a property you might have paid

3:38:16a million dollars for,

3:38:17and then you put an ADU in the basement,

3:38:19maybe that's 200,000.

3:38:21And then you put an attached ADU

3:38:23and maybe that's 350,000.

3:38:25So now you have a property worth one and a half million dollars.

3:38:28And normal people can't do this.

3:38:31You need access to capital.

3:38:33And normally you can only borrow three to four times

3:38:36what your annual income is.

3:38:38And so under this scenario,

3:38:40this is an investment property.

3:38:42This isn't homes.

3:38:43And so the way to take a multi-unit residential property

3:38:47and chop it up into homes is to allow ownership of that.

3:38:51And in doing so,

3:38:52when you set up an alternative structure like a condo corp,

3:38:55you then divide that whole property into shares.

3:38:59And then you could say, well, you could have three shares

3:39:01and you could have three shares

3:39:02and you could have three shares and I'll keep one.

3:39:04And there were at 10.

3:39:05And then we have votes and we have annual meetings.

3:39:07And so using these alternative structures

3:39:10for multi-residential properties

3:39:13allows for people to have ownership.

3:39:16And Canada is based on home ownership.

3:39:18We have preferential tax treatment for homes,

3:39:22primary residence exceptions.

3:39:23And that's where most of Canadians equity wealth lies.

3:39:28And it's their source of the growth of that wealth.

3:39:31And so this has happened in Toronto.

3:39:34I don't know how successful it was,

3:39:35but somebody took a three-unit house in East York

3:39:41and turned it into a condo corp

3:39:43and tried to sell off the little pieces.

3:39:45Unfortunately, it's not a viable option.

3:39:48The resale market for ADUs is not great.

3:39:52Traditional banks don't underwrite those type of deals.

3:39:55They'll value an ADU like a garage.

3:39:59I've tried to refinance them, they don't work.

3:40:01And so using these alternative structures

3:40:04like a condo corp, a community land trust or a co-op

3:40:07allows to take this one and a half million dollar property

3:40:11and then allow other people to own different parts of it.

3:40:14So for a community land trust,

3:40:15they'd be interested in holding the land.

3:40:19I like to think of community land trust

3:40:21similar to environmental protection agencies.

3:40:25Whereas I would say an environmental protection agency

3:40:31is responsible for protecting the environment,

3:40:34a land trust does the same thing

3:40:36for affordability of houses.

3:40:38And so the way that it works with the community land trust,

3:40:40you might buy a share of the house

3:40:42and might go up by a certain percentage over time.

3:40:44And then when you eventually sell it,

3:40:46a portion of that increased equity

3:40:48goes right back to the community land trust

3:40:50to make the next generation,

3:40:52be able to afford that house

3:40:53at that affordable purchase price.

3:40:55And then the last thing I really wanna go into

3:40:56is the cluster of tiny dwellings

3:40:59that they have in Rideau Lake subject to bylaws,

3:41:01section 2.4.5E, which is a really interesting idea

3:41:06that allows for basically ground leases

3:41:09as far as I could tell,

3:41:10it's something I'm currently looking into,

3:41:12but it allows people to own the house that they live on,

3:41:17but not necessarily on the land,

3:41:19which is beneficial because as I mentioned

3:41:20during my presentation,

3:41:21if you're able to separate the value of the house

3:41:23from the value of the land

3:41:24and you could get a mortgage on the house,

3:41:27the numbers start to work again,

3:41:28kind of like they did 15 years ago.

3:41:31Thank you very much, Mr. Stegel.

3:41:33Thank you very much.

3:41:34I appreciate that and I appreciate your reference

3:41:36to Rideau Lakes, that part of it,

3:41:39I'll look at online, I apologize.

3:41:42We do have a ton of people we have to hear from as well

3:41:44and thank you again.

3:41:46My pleasure.

3:41:48Thank you, let me just see

3:41:49if there's another follow-up question for you.

3:41:53There isn't, but thank you very much, Daniel,

3:41:55and have a good night, okay?

3:41:57Thanks for your time.

3:42:00So Adam, C. Goel is, I don't know if they're related or not,

3:42:04but Adam is going to join us by video.

3:42:08So Adam actually won't be joining this evening.

3:42:11Oh, okay, perfect.

3:42:14Thank you.

3:42:15David McCauley, I know I saw David sitting over there,

3:42:18so, and then is Mike Lab here?

3:42:22Okay, right in the front row, perfect, you're in the wings.

3:42:24Okay, Mike?

3:42:29Thanks for coming, David, and I'll turn it over to you

3:42:31whenever you're ready, okay?

3:42:32Thank you, Mr. Marin, I don't think I'm going to take

3:42:34even five minutes.

3:42:36So I first want to congratulate staff, consultants,

3:42:38and council for the work you've done to combat

3:42:41the housing crisis and golf,

3:42:42including the Affordable Housing Strategy.

3:42:45I attended a pop-up engagement event

3:42:47at Victoria Road Center and went to the virtual event as well.

3:42:51And what I want to address is item 5.3,

3:42:54the high priority action item, paragraph 222,

3:42:58page 32, which reads,

3:43:01explore other types of housing that are right for golf.

3:43:05So, though I'm not conversant with financing,

3:43:07developing affordable housing,

3:43:09I have expertise in designing emerging housing models

3:43:14and have lived in watershed co-housing for over two years,

3:43:16now, believe it or not.

3:43:18So when I graduated from architectural school,

3:43:20I chose golf very carefully because of the nature

3:43:23of the community, the impressions, the location,

3:43:26and the diversity that we have in terms of the architecture,

3:43:29where you have small, newer homes interlaced

3:43:33with heritage homes and that type of thing.

3:43:37I like the mixture of the community

3:43:38and the small apartment buildings and businesses

3:43:41that are interjected into a lot of the older neighborhoods

3:43:43in golf and they're very walkable

3:43:45in tree-lined streets and established neighborhoods.

3:43:48And golf remains an attractive place to live, work,

3:43:52raise a family, and run a business.

3:43:54In my opinion, mixed use, complete neighborhoods

3:43:57with all types of housing, including the mixing missile,

3:44:00is the answer to address the need for affordable housing

3:44:03and is right for golf.

3:44:06Luxury rise, high rise luxury condominiums,

3:44:10large institutional long-term care and retirement homes,

3:44:13wherever they are, down tone or in suburbia,

3:44:16do not foster community to the detriment

3:44:19of outdoor spaces, sidewalks, streets, parks,

3:44:22and natural environment heritage and surrounding housing.

3:44:25For my over 50 years practicing architecture in golf,

3:44:29the design, most of my designs have been for not

3:44:32for profit facilities and I won't go through a list,

3:44:34I'll just mention Grace Gardens, Windham House,

3:44:37Hospice, Humane Society, Women in Crisis,

3:44:39Salvation Army, et cetera.

3:44:41So there are many types, many models, housing models,

3:44:44which have been proven to be foster communities,

3:44:46such as co-housing, co-living, lodging houses, group homes,

3:44:51and communal spaces, care homes, Abbey Field,

3:44:54we had the second one in Canada actually here,

3:44:57small 12 bed long-term care, which they're doing

3:44:59in Alberta now, which takes away the institutionalization

3:45:03of that field, and communal places with compact,

3:45:06much more compact individual units and shared kitchens

3:45:09and other support facilities.

3:45:12Some of these homes are short-term, some permanent,

3:45:15and some address urgent needs

3:45:16and others anticipated future needs even.

3:45:19Most of us are blessed to have housing choices, unfortunately.

3:45:23Many have few options, and that's the most urgent need,

3:45:26as we know.

3:45:28All Hasling that is designed to support community

3:45:30have documented sustained benefits to health,

3:45:33fitness, happiness, longevity, safety, security,

3:45:36engagement, value and sense of belonging and ownership,

3:45:40and a lower cost of living, that's proven.

3:45:43People who work in support of community housing facilities

3:45:46also share the same benefits in their career,

3:45:48where they have employees.

3:45:50There are a lot of examples of local community living,

3:45:53and I've mentioned a number of those,

3:45:56and we can go on, other people will talk

3:45:57about some of those as well, so I'm not gonna provide a list,

3:45:59and you could probably supplement that in any case.

3:46:03Many of these projects, I just wanna say,

3:46:05have had lengthy and costly planning approval processes,

3:46:09and we need a plan for mixed use, inclusionary zoning,

3:46:13and for instance, allow as of right residential uses

3:46:17in underutilized office and commercial zones,

3:46:19which I have on my section of Warwick Street,

3:46:21just north of London Road.

3:46:24So organizations that are achievable in community living

3:46:28include neighborhood associations,

3:46:30such as West Village Co-op, Habitat for Humanities,

3:46:33Stepping Stones, Community Health Center,

3:46:35Hope House, YMCA, and Places of Worship, et cetera.

3:46:39After completing the Wellington County's

3:46:41Affordable Housing Workshop series last week,

3:46:44just last Monday, several local individuals and stakeholders

3:46:47with experience and expertise networked,

3:46:49and we intend to dedicate with dedication to collaborate,

3:46:53innovate, and implement the complement,

3:46:55completion of affordable housing with many people

3:46:58and organizations represented in this room

3:47:00and elsewhere in our community.

3:47:02So this was the tenor of the completion of the event

3:47:04that some of the consultants were at.

3:47:06And we look forward to working with the city's leadership

3:47:09to address the dire need for achievable housing for all.

3:47:11And that's the conclusion of my remarks.

3:47:13Yeah, thank you so much, David.

3:47:16We appreciate that.

3:47:16Is there any follow-up for David at all?

3:47:20There isn't, but thank you very much.

3:47:22We appreciate your presentation.

3:47:24Thank you, and I hope to hear from other people as well.

3:47:26I'm happy to be part of a collaborative group

3:47:28that brings some of these people together

3:47:29and provide expertise.

3:47:31We have a resource that's starting

3:47:33and happy to work with staff, council, neighborhood groups,

3:47:36whatever it does, but it might be a very large forum.

3:47:39And it's a good thing to do.

3:47:40Okay, thank you.

3:47:41Thank you.

3:47:42We'll bring the pizza.

3:47:43Sounds like a good group.

3:47:46Mike, you're up, thank you.

3:47:49And then next in the wings is Adrian Dingell,

3:47:52who is going to be joining us by video.

3:47:54So Mike, thanks for coming, and I'll turn it over to you.

3:47:58Yes, Mayor Guthrie, members of council.

3:48:01I will be brief.

3:48:04I want to thank staff for their report,

3:48:07and I actually enjoyed the presentation.

3:48:09I thought they did a good summary of what was in the report

3:48:12and has actually given me a few things to think about.

3:48:15So I'm here.

3:48:15I'm pleased as one of the nonprofit delivery agencies

3:48:19active in Guelph to be speaking at council today

3:48:22in support of the affordable housing strategy.

3:48:25For those who don't know,

3:48:26I'm president of Home Opportunities.

3:48:29We agree with the need for at least 26,000 units by 2021,

3:48:35and would like to confirm that we believe

3:48:37that a significant number of these units

3:48:38should meet the rental affordable housing guidelines

3:48:41in the report.

3:48:42We also believe that there is a backlog

3:48:44of affordable housing, which the city should address

3:48:47through the housing affordability strategy.

3:48:51So we're actually saying that there should be

3:48:52more affordable units because there's

3:48:55old units from the past.

3:48:58We also support the direction that council

3:49:00is taking with respect to the CIP

3:49:03and the use of the affordable housing accelerator funding.

3:49:06As mentioned at the November 13th meeting,

3:49:09we recommend that in addition of a workforce housing stream

3:49:13to the affordable housing strategy be considered.

3:49:17We support referring the development

3:49:19of this workforce, home ownership housing stream to staff

3:49:22in order to provide a comprehensive report

3:49:24back to council early next year.

3:49:27We have provided additional information

3:49:29in our council package on the definition of affordable

3:49:33for this housing stream, and are now suggesting

3:49:36that we synchronize with the recommendations

3:49:38of the strategy for affordable rental

3:49:40as it applies to workforce housing ownership

3:49:44developed by nonprofit delivery agencies.

3:49:46The definitional stuff will take some work.

3:49:48It's, you can even tell from the presentation

3:49:50that it's quite complex.

3:49:53Our request for providing incremental property tax

3:49:55funding and municipal application fee deferrals remains.

3:49:59Use of these financial tools will accelerate

3:50:02affordable housing production while protecting

3:50:04taxpayers from increases related

3:50:06to achievable home ownership models.

3:50:09We look forward to working with staff

3:50:11on this major addition to the housing affordability strategy

3:50:16that will eventually allow all of the nonprofit housing

3:50:19delivery agencies in Guelph to deliver a thousand units

3:50:22per year of critically needed affordable housing.

3:50:25And finally, I wanna take advantage of my age

3:50:27and I wanna mention that this feels to me a lot like 1991.

3:50:33In 1991, we were all feeling good about all the programs

3:50:37that were there, everything was moving smoothly.

3:50:39In Toronto, we were up to 10,000 units a year

3:50:42of affordable housing and two changes of government later

3:50:45in 1993, everything was shut off.

3:50:47And what we hadn't done was planning to have programs

3:50:51that didn't need that subsidy in order to continue

3:50:54moving forward.

3:50:55And part of what we're trying to build

3:50:57into your housing strategy is something that will work

3:50:59without grants and subsidies so that regardless

3:51:02of what upper levels of government,

3:51:03you can continue to serve both your industries

3:51:06and the housing needs of the city.

3:51:09And that is my presentation.

3:51:12Great, thank you very much.

3:51:15I was 16 in 1991.

3:51:20So is there any follow-up questions?

3:51:22Councillor Goller.

3:51:24Thank you and through your worship, Mr. Alibay.

3:51:26Thank you for your presentation.

3:51:28I just wanted to be clear on what you mentioned

3:51:31about the reliance on government grants.

3:51:33So we have the housing affordability fund

3:51:36that has come to us, but I think there is a concern

3:51:40that if the government changes,

3:51:43the rest of the funding may not be available.

3:51:46How would the tax incremental deferrals be different

3:51:49than the grants that are being provided

3:51:52through what we see here in the housing affordability

3:51:56strategy and the CIP?

3:51:59Yeah, as we envisage it, once we work this through

3:52:03with staff is that the tax incremental grants are grants.

3:52:08That's not something that the taxpayers of wealth

3:52:11can manage for large numbers of units.

3:52:13So our intention is to set up a program whereby which,

3:52:16through the resale of the units, the taxes get repaid

3:52:20so that we're dealing with cash flow,

3:52:22not out-of-pocket expenses to the taxpayer.

3:52:25Okay, and so what would be the length as we talk?

3:52:34Oh, yeah, absolutely.

3:52:35No, I'm thinking about a program for when the funding

3:52:41that we have for the half runs out,

3:52:43because it sounds like this would be something

3:52:46that does not have to be funded,

3:52:49but there is a cost to deferring those tax payments.

3:52:55So what would be the length that you're seeing

3:52:58with these deferrals?

3:53:00So the math we've done in general,

3:53:02not on a specific project,

3:53:04would mean that the taxes would be,

3:53:09the deferral be less and less each year.

3:53:11So over a period of 10 years, it would go down to zero.

3:53:16Once you get to zero or after 10 years,

3:53:17you'd need another three years to catch up

3:53:19for the ones that were deferred prior to the 10th year.

3:53:22Okay, and are other municipalities in Ontario

3:53:27using this model to support affordable rental

3:53:31or affordable ownership bills?

3:53:33They're using it for both,

3:53:37but they still do it in a lot of cases as waiving

3:53:41rather than deferrals.

3:53:42It's more common to waive than defer,

3:53:45but then they can't do as many units,

3:53:47except for the City of Toronto,

3:53:48it seems to have an infinite tax base

3:53:50and they're willing to waive taxes for 99 years

3:53:52to get their affordability, but that's City of Toronto.

3:53:55That's not the rest of you.

3:53:57Okay, thank you very much.

3:53:59Thank you, Worship.

3:54:00Thank you.

3:54:02Let me just see if there's anything further.

3:54:03There is not.

3:54:04Again, thanks Mike, thank you very much for your presentation.

3:54:08Adrian Dingle is going to join us by video, I believe.

3:54:16Good evening, everybody.

3:54:18Good evening, and thank you very much for joining us

3:54:22and you as well have up to 10 minutes.

3:54:25If you do need it, please go right ahead.

3:54:27Thank you Mayor Guthrie.

3:54:27Thank you Council and staff for hosting me here tonight.

3:54:30My name is Adrian Dingle and I'm representing in my capacity

3:54:32as the Head of Housing Development at Raising the Roof.

3:54:35We're a registered non-profit national charitable organization.

3:54:39I am a citizen of Guelph,

3:54:41although we have a national scope of Raising the Roof.

3:54:43I just wanted to show up here tonight in this forum

3:54:46and say thank you to staff and to Council

3:54:47for all the work that's been done

3:54:48to put forward this report tonight

3:54:51and show my support generally

3:54:52as a potential housing service delivery provider

3:54:55for Guelph in the future.

3:54:56There's a ton of terrific initiatives

3:54:58that are being put forward here.

3:55:00I would highlight in particular the prioritization

3:55:03of existing municipal housing resources

3:55:06or land resources that could be considered

3:55:09for housing in the future,

3:55:10as well as those opportunities to find ways to save costs

3:55:14for the developers, including waiver of permit fees,

3:55:18tax increment financing and things like that in the future.

3:55:20I really hope that this is the first step on the path

3:55:24to additional programming that can be made available

3:55:27specifically for affordable housing,

3:55:28deeply affordable housing and supportive housing

3:55:30that can benefit people that might be at risk of experience

3:55:33homelessness in our community.

3:55:35And I just wanted to put my hat in the ring

3:55:37as a potential affordable housing developer

3:55:40and say that this programming and these initiatives

3:55:42have caught the attention of groups like Raising the Roof

3:55:45and others across Canada that will be looking

3:55:47to develop affordable housing in the community.

3:55:49Thanks very much for your time.

3:55:50I'll be very brief.

3:55:51I know there's a long list of people behind me

3:55:53and very happy to speak with members of Council

3:55:55and staff regarding our own initiatives across Canada

3:55:58and potentially in Guelph in the future.

3:56:00Thanks very much.

3:56:03Thank you very much, Adrienne.

3:56:05We appreciate you joining us tonight in your presentation.

3:56:09Is there any further questions for the delegate or anybody?

3:56:13There isn't, so thank you very much for stopping by.

3:56:16Appreciate it.

3:56:19Mary Kate, come on down again.

3:56:25Frequent flyer card for you tonight.

3:56:27Have like a stamp on your card.

3:56:32So you're up and then, hey, Morgan Dandy,

3:56:35you are in the wings, so go right ahead.

3:56:39Okay, thank you and thanks for giving me the space

3:56:42to speak again.

3:56:43Again, I'm here on behalf of the Junction Village

3:56:47Community Land Trust, so please go to our website

3:56:51and check out our vision and mission

3:56:54and some of the work that we've been doing.

3:56:56But I just wanted to point to what the Junction Village

3:57:01Community Land Trust and the Land Trust model,

3:57:04and this is what Daniel was pointing to, what it can do,

3:57:10it is a way to actually remove properties

3:57:15from the speculative market and to hold them

3:57:18in permanent affordable housing.

3:57:21So I think, we actually took a long time to get to this model

3:57:26as the model to move forward, and I have been looking

3:57:30at this internationally and looking at this in Canada,

3:57:33and in Canada this did not start to move forwards

3:57:37because really, as we've been talking about this 30 year gap

3:57:40that has meant that models like this just could not exist.

3:57:44Now we're seeing this acceleration,

3:57:46and I feel very honored, proud to have helped

3:57:52to create this, but it is now here to be used, right?

3:57:56We created it because we could see it could help

3:57:59solve some of the problems that we were facing

3:58:02in the Junction Village where we were holding this question

3:58:05of how do we decommodify land and how do we create

3:58:10long-term affordable housing?

3:58:12Having got to this, it's now an offering.

3:58:15It's like we want this to become something that is large.

3:58:19We want this to be across the city,

3:58:22but in order for something like the Junction Village

3:58:25to keep acquiring more and more lands,

3:58:29we will need an acquisition fund, and that is the one thing.

3:58:33It's embedded in that, and I have been part of the process

3:58:36of creating this, but we need an acquisition fund.

3:58:40There needs to be money that's available to rapidly acquire

3:58:44existing properties and existing spaces

3:58:47where we could develop more housing

3:58:49so that this is not lost now.

3:58:52So that's my one thing that I would like to see highlighted

3:58:58in this more, and I really applaud what has already happened.

3:59:04And as I said, I've been embedded in this process

3:59:08and giving feedback all the way through,

3:59:11but I really feel like for us to actually do this quickly,

3:59:15we need to mirror what has happened elsewhere.

3:59:20And yes, we can do it on a property by property basis,

3:59:25and we can talk about how we create this,

3:59:28but we need large amounts of cash

3:59:30that are available right now, and this won't be ongoing

3:59:35because the beautiful thing about a model

3:59:37like a community land trust is you are actually changing

3:59:42the acquisition of funds, like the acquisition of wealth,

3:59:47changes from an individual who is creating wealth

3:59:52through holding properties into communities

3:59:57are actually getting that wealth.

3:59:59So we're removing properties from the speculative market,

4:00:04and then we're actually building wealth for the community

4:00:07and we're building it with the value

4:00:12that will not allow this to keep happening.

4:00:14So what I'm asking for is how do we inject

4:00:18an acquisition fund in some sort of way

4:00:21so that we can rapidly acquire many, many properties

4:00:26in order to actually allow gentle density

4:00:30to move forwards rapidly and affordable

4:00:33and deeply affordable housing to move forwards really rapidly,

4:00:37and it allows for affordable ownership.

4:00:41So everything that we want to create

4:00:44could, I'm not saying it's the only thing,

4:00:46but could be solved through these community land trusts.

4:00:51And so I'm just here to say we're here to partner,

4:00:54we're here to help collaborate and create this,

4:00:57and this, what we have created is ready to go.

4:01:02We've got a great board of directors,

4:01:04we've done the work over the last year to have this happen,

4:01:08and it's a call out, please come and help us,

4:01:11and let's make funds available to acquire

4:01:15as many existing affordable properties and protect them,

4:01:20and that's together, responsibly steward

4:01:23and responsibly develop properties

4:01:26to actually create this vision rapidly.

4:01:29That's all I got.

4:01:31You didn't look at notes once, did you know that?

4:01:34Well, they're here.

4:01:37All right, thank you.

4:01:37I got Linda, I got Linda, House or Busatil,

4:01:40and then I saw another hand go up, where was it?

4:01:42Qasim, okay.

4:01:44The two of you, go ahead, Linda.

4:01:45Thank you, I'm through the mayor.

4:01:46Thank you for your delegation.

4:01:48And I think what you're speaking to is about cooling

4:01:50the demand on opposite ends of the housing continuum.

4:01:55And I just want to be clear that,

4:01:58so you're talking about deeply affordable,

4:02:00and the retention, this is a retention strategy,

4:02:03or are you also talking about affordable purchase?

4:02:09And my last question is whether or not you're familiar

4:02:12with union co-op and union co-ops work in Waterloo.

4:02:16I know the mayor in my community role,

4:02:19a number of years ago, we invited them to come

4:02:21and speak to us.

4:02:22So if you could just clarify.

4:02:24Yes, we are aware of union,

4:02:26and we've been chatting to Sean over the years.

4:02:30So we're actually talking across the board, right?

4:02:33So community land trust can underpin anything.

4:02:39It is just holding the land.

4:02:42It's holding the land, and then it's creating the solution.

4:02:45So on a community land trust owned property,

4:02:48you can create deeply affordable housing,

4:02:52but you could also create just below market housing.

4:02:56So you can do everything.

4:02:57You can have co-ops, you can have co-living.

4:03:00Like it's about removing the land

4:03:04from the speculative market,

4:03:05and then working together to create the solutions

4:03:09that make sense for each community

4:03:10and in different parts of the city.

4:03:13So it's everything, yeah.

4:03:18Thank you, Councillor, and then Councillor Clausson.

4:03:20Yes, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor,

4:03:22to the delegate through your presentation

4:03:25and for your passion and the work

4:03:26that you're doing in the community.

4:03:27It's inspiring.

4:03:29I'll just jump right to the point.

4:03:30So you talked about an acquisition fund

4:03:32needing money to do this kind of thing.

4:03:35So my specific question is,

4:03:36do you know of governments doing this,

4:03:38specifically municipal governments?

4:03:40And maybe you could just elaborate

4:03:42and talk a little bit more about that.

4:03:43Yeah, so there is no community land trust

4:03:47that I know of in Canada

4:03:49that has not been able to do this through municipal support.

4:03:53So they are all partnered with municipalities,

4:03:56every single one of them.

4:03:58And in Toronto, the municipality,

4:04:02I'm gonna get the exact number wrong,

4:04:04but it's like 87 houses were recently gifted

4:04:09to the community land trust.

4:04:10And the community land trust is now renovating

4:04:13and creating them.

4:04:14There are five or six community land trusts

4:04:16that now exist in Toronto.

4:04:20And in Vancouver, there's a number.

4:04:22Ottawa just purchased a building with municipal support.

4:04:25Hamilton has a community land trust and is purchasing.

4:04:29So it always is in partnership with the municipality.

4:04:34So we're here and we're like, we've got the vehicle,

4:04:37let's partner, let's do this,

4:04:39and let's do it on a large scale.

4:04:40So definitely, and we have had very few in Canada,

4:04:46but now that we've got the Canadian network

4:04:49of community land trusts,

4:04:50which formed out of a CMHC funding proposal,

4:04:53we now have this network, it's happening rapidly.

4:04:56Muskoka's got a community land trust,

4:04:58like they're popping up everywhere.

4:05:01When I started this, there were three community land trusts

4:05:07in Canada and now it's like they're popping up everywhere.

4:05:11I think there's probably 50 or 60 in works

4:05:17and moving forward.

4:05:18So yeah, this is a model, let's go.

4:05:21Okay, really appreciate the answer.

4:05:23Thanks, Rikki.

4:05:25Sure, sure, Councillor O'Rourke.

4:05:26And then, yeah, we'll finish with you, go ahead.

4:05:29Through you, Marga, through to the delegate.

4:05:30This is really interesting model.

4:05:33I thought that Toronto had started their land trust

4:05:38because under the old rules that have changed,

4:05:42a municipality could collect development charges

4:05:45for housing.

4:05:47And so it was my understanding that when

4:05:50the provincial government eliminated that ability

4:05:53to collect development charges for housing of any kind,

4:05:58that the ability to collect some development charges

4:06:02in order to preserve some affordable land or gift land,

4:06:06that type of thing or acquire land is vanished.

4:06:12So I'm just curious if you know the other municipalities

4:06:16that are starting land trusts or contributing to land trusts,

4:06:20would you know where their funding is coming from?

4:06:23So I don't necessarily know where their funding

4:06:29is coming from, probably a number of different sources.

4:06:33But to my understanding, municipalities aren't starting

4:06:39land trusts for the most part.

4:06:42Land trusts are being started because they're grassroots.

4:06:44They come from need.

4:06:47Most of the ones that have started in Toronto

4:06:50have started because a group has a building that is at risk

4:06:56and it's at risk of gentrification

4:06:58and a developer coming in and they know

4:07:00that they're about to be unhoused

4:07:03and that their housing is,

4:07:04and that group of people are coming together

4:07:07and that's usually what's forming the community land trust.

4:07:11So it's fairly place-based.

4:07:14This community land trust that has formed here in Guelph

4:07:16hasn't formed out of that.

4:07:18It's formed out of the Junction Village Guelph

4:07:22and it's been incubated inside of that.

4:07:24But it could be used for anything

4:07:26that we want to use it for in this solution.

4:07:28But where the funding comes from to support it

4:07:33is very different in different places.

4:07:34Sometimes the municipalities supporting through gifting land.

4:07:38So sometimes they're saying,

4:07:40okay, we could put affordable housing here

4:07:42and we will gift this land to the community land trust

4:07:46who holds it and then partners with the developer.

4:07:49Often the community land trust

4:07:50isn't managing those properties either.

4:07:53They're like often there's a large partnership

4:07:58that looks different in different places.

4:08:00Sometimes it's orphan houses

4:08:02that the municipality has taken back

4:08:07and are in need of repair.

4:08:10Circle community land trust is completely based

4:08:13on renovating and then refilling houses

4:08:17that were orphan housing.

4:08:19So it's a variety of different things.

4:08:21But a lot of it will be also helping those community land

4:08:25trust to access funds through CMHC

4:08:28or through other mechanisms.

4:08:31Okay, thank you.

4:08:32I'll connect to learn more.

4:08:33Thanks.

4:08:36Thank you so much again.

4:08:37Okay.

4:08:38You're not in the next item, are you?

4:08:40No, you're not.

4:08:41So you get to go home.

4:08:42Okay.

4:08:44Morgan Dandy, come on down.

4:08:47And as I had said earlier, everyone,

4:08:49we were gonna take another 20 minute break after Morgan.

4:08:53Okay.

4:08:54So we're gonna take a 20 minute break after this

4:08:56and then come back.

4:08:58So we'll just hear Morgan and then we'll go from there.

4:09:01Okay.

4:09:02Go ahead, Morgan.

4:09:04Council, staff, fellow Gwalfites,

4:09:07today we mark an important point in the journey

4:09:10to the next step in housing over 200,000 people by 2051.

4:09:18We have an affordable housing strategy

4:09:21to guide our growth inclusive of all the people who do

4:09:26and will call Gwalf home.

4:09:29My involvement with the housing affordability strategy

4:09:32began in April, when the house was first presented

4:09:36to the Planning Advisory Committee

4:09:38and staff invited everyone to attend a workshop

4:09:41the following day.

4:09:43I had recently begun consulting on an initiative

4:09:46which had a housing component

4:09:48and wanted to learn what the house was about

4:09:51and how the initiative's concepts might be introduced

4:09:55and included.

4:09:58The various reports that informed the housing

4:10:00affordability strategy show what anyone trying to rent

4:10:06in Gwalf knows.

4:10:09We need more purpose built rental units.

4:10:16I'm one who prefers to rent.

4:10:20I want more choice as to the type of home

4:10:25I have than is currently available.

4:10:31As the housing affordability strategy was drafted

4:10:34my passion for the initiative grew

4:10:38and I became one of the principles

4:10:40of Lilypads communities.

4:10:44Lilypads is committed to creating routes

4:10:48toward low cost attainable homes

4:10:51geared toward well-being

4:10:54for low income individuals and families.

4:10:58Leveraging the benefits of land recycling

4:11:01and sustainable living designs,

4:11:03we reduce housing insecurity

4:11:06and increase access to basic needs.

4:11:11The staff report outlines the areas of housing

4:11:14that the city cannot control

4:11:16and Lilypads is prepared to help leap over those gaps.

4:11:22By working with property owners across the city

4:11:25to build quickly using low cost energy efficient materials

4:11:29in a streamlined process, thereby accelerating timelines.

4:11:34Lilypads is committed to providing attainable

4:11:38affordable units for home seekers

4:11:40in as little as eight weeks from approvals.

4:11:45The Gwalf housing affordability strategy engagement

4:11:47experience has been one where I have felt hurt.

4:11:52It leaves me feeling that the housing affordability

4:11:54strategy team has reflected what the community wants

4:11:58to see and provide while remaining clear

4:12:03about the role the city can play.

4:12:06With the implementation of the housing affordability strategy,

4:12:10coming at the point when Lilypads is prepared

4:12:12to begin conversations with property owners,

4:12:15we are looking forward to continuing to steward

4:12:18a strong relationship with staff

4:12:20to bring more attainable affordable homes

4:12:24to more people faster.

4:12:27Thank you.

4:12:28Thank you, Morgan, for your presentation.

4:12:31And I'm just gonna see if there's any follow up for you.

4:12:34There is not.

4:12:36So thank you very much for coming.

4:12:39All right, everyone, it is 7.05.

4:12:41We're gonna come back here at 7.25.

4:12:45And we're gonna start with Ryan,

4:12:48who I think I saw here earlier,

4:12:51way at the back there.

4:12:51You're gonna be the first one back.

4:12:54I'm sure it will be riveting, everyone.

4:12:55So make sure you're back here right at 7.25

4:12:58to hear what their presentation is from Ryan, okay?

4:13:00Thank you very much.

4:32:42Okay, everyone, this is your one minute warning, okay?

4:32:47Everybody, one minute warning.

4:32:49Thank you, Councillor Caton for the wind.

4:33:03Jumping on there right away.

4:33:04Oh, in close second, Councillor Kerron.

4:33:09One, two, three, four, five, six, seven.

4:33:14I'm gonna call the meeting officially back to order.

4:33:16We have quorum.

4:33:18Thank you so much.

4:33:20And let me go back to my list.

4:33:21Ryan, Ryan Deska from Habitat for Humanity is here.

4:33:26Is Stan Kozak here?

4:33:29Stan, I see you.

4:33:30Thank you, you're in the wings, okay?

4:33:32So, Ryan, come on forward.

4:33:35And again, same rules apply, everybody.

4:33:37No more than 10 minutes, okay?

4:33:39So go ahead, thank you for waiting, Ryan.

4:33:41Go ahead.

4:33:41Yeah, thank you so much, Mayor Guthrie and Council, staff.

4:33:46Thanks for having us here today to delegate.

4:33:49And congratulations to all on the affordable housing strategy

4:33:54and pulling that together.

4:33:55Habitat is certainly as a not-for-profit builder

4:33:59in the community.

4:33:59We're appreciative of the leadership

4:34:01that the municipality or the city is taking rather

4:34:05on this front.

4:34:07And we are certainly eagerly exploring all avenues

4:34:14presented in the report to see how they can support

4:34:16the work that we do.

4:34:18We have been building in the community for over 30 years.

4:34:21We've built 49 units of affordable home ownership

4:34:26for families through O'Glealth and Wellington.

4:34:29And in the next couple of years, we will be more than doubling

4:34:32our production in terms of units that we're bringing online.

4:34:41So I wanted to say a few quick notes

4:34:44on the housing affordability strategy

4:34:46and leave it at that.

4:34:49Having worked in municipal and provincial government

4:34:51for some time and as a facilitator of strategic plans,

4:34:55I certainly understand the challenge that there is

4:34:57to bring those to life.

4:34:59And it's really encouraging to see some of the action-oriented

4:35:03outcomes from this plan through the CIP,

4:35:06through the demonstration project.

4:35:07All of these things are really encouraging to see.

4:35:11And it's our hope at Habitat that this plan remains

4:35:14a living document.

4:35:16And it's not one that goes on a shelf

4:35:18and is not continually reviewed.

4:35:24In that vein, I think there's a great opportunity.

4:35:27We've seen all of the amazing and impassioned speakers

4:35:31here this evening thus far with really good ideas

4:35:34across the spectrum.

4:35:36At Habitat, we've said for a long time

4:35:40that we're not a silver bullet solution

4:35:42that we can act as a facilitator for other types of housing.

4:35:45And we want to in all of our projects

4:35:48and we have a vision for what that looks like

4:35:52to really expand the scale

4:35:57and the repeatability of our projects.

4:36:00So we would encourage staff and council

4:36:03to bring us to the table to keep us part of the conversation.

4:36:07And I know everyone in the room here

4:36:09would also come forward in that vein.

4:36:15There's been some great ideas brought forward.

4:36:17The land trust model, Habitat effectively operates

4:36:20as a land trust in a lot of ways.

4:36:24We do hold a second mortgage on our properties over time.

4:36:27And so someone mentioned that,

4:36:29it's not a winning lottery ticket for someone to get a home

4:36:33where they can turn around and sell it.

4:36:34We're able to maintain it for 20 years or in perpetuity,

4:36:38we could hold that second mortgage

4:36:39and effectively act as a land trust.

4:36:41So there's some really interesting crossovers

4:36:43of different models and there's all kinds of different ways

4:36:46that we could do that.

4:36:47And I think bringing the creative energies

4:36:48of the people to the table to look at other solutions

4:36:53is an important part of this.

4:36:54I would be nice to see something in the strategy

4:36:59that creates a process or a structure for that.

4:37:04But when we look at the construction of housing,

4:37:05even at the cost to build,

4:37:07most or all families still require additional supports

4:37:11or subsidies to achieve the affordability

4:37:14of ownership or rentals.

4:37:16So within our model,

4:37:17we do have that equity sharing support.

4:37:20And this allows us to ensure that payments

4:37:22are tied to household income over time.

4:37:26We wanted to point out,

4:37:28it was brought up at the last meeting,

4:37:30it was brought up again today, tax increment financing.

4:37:33It's a great idea.

4:37:34We would also be able to leverage that.

4:37:37And not to say that that's a silver bullet solution either,

4:37:41but it's an idea that came forward.

4:37:43We don't fully understand the ins and outs

4:37:45of the other delegates' models,

4:37:50but we know that with our model,

4:37:51that is one thing that we could leverage in,

4:37:56again, the array of tools that we have available to us,

4:38:02we would love to explore that.

4:38:04So I'll leave it at that.

4:38:06It's really encouraging to see the energy

4:38:09and the passion in the room and the ideas.

4:38:12And I think that everyone would agree

4:38:14that there is no silver bullet solution.

4:38:16We strongly believe in the values

4:38:19of affordable home ownership,

4:38:21for wealth building, for the security, for the family,

4:38:25and for the investment in the community

4:38:28from a workforce retention perspective

4:38:30for our major employers.

4:38:33It's incredibly important,

4:38:35but we would also stand up and advocate

4:38:37for all the other forms of housing along the continuum.

4:38:39So thank you so much for your time.

4:38:42Yeah, thank you very much, Ryan,

4:38:44and for what habitat for him and that he does.

4:38:47We always appreciate that.

4:38:49Is there any follow-up though with Ryan at all?

4:38:53Not at this time.

4:38:54Thank you again for waiting around in your presentation.

4:38:57Stan is already on his way down,

4:38:59and Mike Ashkwiy is going to be next after Mike.

4:39:05So I'm sorry, after Stan.

4:39:07So Stan, welcome and over to you.

4:39:09Great, I'll have some slides

4:39:11and how does the clicker work on this?

4:39:14The green is go.

4:39:16That's great.

4:39:17Mayor and council, as always, thank you for your work.

4:39:21And tonight, thank you for your stamina

4:39:24with the marathon agenda that you've got.

4:39:26I'll be very brief.

4:39:29About three weeks ago, Get Involved, Guelph

4:39:31put out a call to our supporters

4:39:33to identify vacant homes in their neighborhoods

4:39:37and to submit them so that we could post them

4:39:40in the gallery of vacant homes,

4:39:42which is on the getinvolvedguelph.ca website.

4:39:47All lower case, no spaces.

4:39:50So very briefly, let me just walk you through the gallery,

4:39:55and they're not all in the category of affordable housing.

4:40:02The first one here is Yorkshire South and College Avenue.

4:40:13Point of order, Mayor Guthrie.

4:40:15With your respect to the delegate and the slides,

4:40:18are we violating any privacy by showing these slides?

4:40:32I am uncomfortable about it

4:40:34from a risk management point of view,

4:40:36to be very honest with you.

4:40:38A publicly disclosing vacant homes

4:40:40in a manner like this makes me feel very uncomfortable.

4:40:45But I would prefer that you didn't appeal

4:40:53with people's properties

4:40:55and then publicly announce to the world that they're vacant.

4:40:59I just, you can understand why.

4:41:00Like there could be vandalism, other,

4:41:03I got my old insurance hat on as I say.

4:41:05It's already happening.

4:41:06And just a point of order to continue.

4:41:09I certainly do appreciate it.

4:41:10I was wondering if it would be appropriate,

4:41:12and I don't know if even this is the answer,

4:41:14for this to be emailed to Mayor and Councillors,

4:41:17then we can keep the privacy, and we already do have it.

4:41:21I didn't see it.

4:41:22I just wanted to ask the clerk's councillor all something.

4:41:23This is attached to our doctor invitation.

4:41:29So it's already public.

4:41:31So I appreciate you bringing it up.

4:41:33I didn't put it down or anything like that,

4:41:36but it's already attached publicly

4:41:38through the correspondence.

4:41:40So just maybe you could just say,

4:41:44and here's another one,

4:41:45instead of saying the actual road that it's on.

4:41:47Can we meet in the middle?

4:41:48Fair enough, whatever your most, we'll meet in the middle.

4:41:49What you're comfortable with.

4:41:51Five units, another.

4:41:59One that you've dealt with in the past.

4:42:05One in my neighborhood.

4:42:10One that's been very visible for a very long time.

4:42:18One near the, possibly near the junction, I think,

4:42:26also over in that area.

4:42:30And then in the ward, also in the ward, my neighborhood,

4:42:47and several others that have come in

4:42:50that haven't been posted yet.

4:42:53So, you know, we're promoting the idea of a vacant home tax.

4:42:59It is something that will certainly pay for itself

4:43:03and provide additional revenue.

4:43:07The province has given you the means and ways of doing that.

4:43:13And you have the experience of six or so communities.

4:43:20I would point out that Sault Ste. Marie lists all the homes

4:43:24and only lists the owners if they are corporate.

4:43:29So that is a practice that is followed out there.

4:43:34The question is, how many vacant homes do we have in Guelph?

4:43:38Toronto has a rate of 1.2%.

4:43:45If we applied that, we would have hundreds here in town.

4:43:48We probably don't have that many.

4:43:49But I can say that just from the 20 in the gallery

4:43:52that we have at present,

4:43:55that's a significant number from looking at the strategy

4:43:58tonight because you're looking at 98 a year.

4:44:03We're covering a portion of those.

4:44:06So, I would say consider moving the vacant home tax option

4:44:12up to a more higher priority.

4:44:15I think it would be very beneficial.

4:44:17As I said, it will pay for itself.

4:44:20And we could start that right away in 2025,

4:44:23even on a communication basis

4:44:25because that would probably start moving people along.

4:44:30And on that, I'll end.

4:44:31Thank you very much.

4:44:33All right, and thank you very much.

4:44:35Is there any follow-up at all?

4:44:38Okay, I just have one question.

4:44:40Do you think that there's thousands across the city at all?

4:44:43No, my personal guess is between one and 200.

4:44:47If we can include condos and the like.

4:44:51We don't, Toronto has a tremendous number of condominiums

4:44:54that could have foreign buyers.

4:44:58I don't think we have any wealth.

4:45:00But we'll see as this unfolds,

4:45:02what you saw were mostly single family.

4:45:05And my guess is they're going to be double that in town

4:45:08by the time they all roll in.

4:45:10That's a significant number.

4:45:11And those are also ones that the city can take a roll in

4:45:15of maybe linking with the land trust with owners

4:45:19and saying, hey, we've got a possible way forward here

4:45:23to feed a number of birds with one seed.

4:45:27Okay, great.

4:45:27Thank you.

4:45:29And I appreciate your presentation.

4:45:35Let's see.

4:45:36Mike, you're coming up.

4:45:37Thank you very much.

4:45:40And is Cora here?

4:45:44Cora, Patra?

4:45:47Cora, thank you.

4:45:48You're in the wings, okay.

4:45:50And Mike, thank you so much for waiting.

4:45:52And we look forward to your presentation.

4:45:54Go right ahead.

4:45:55So first off, Odesia being an estacoste macododum.

4:45:58My name is Mike, heart of the river, clam bear, ashkwee.

4:46:03I'm mostly a disability, poverty,

4:46:05and indigenous advocate here in the city.

4:46:08And I've been working with the housing affordability strategy

4:46:13for quite some time, since it pretty much came online.

4:46:16And I'm also on ODSP.

4:46:19And one thing I feel the strategy does not do,

4:46:22does not represent people like myself.

4:46:25I do not see the disabled.

4:46:27I do not see people who live in extreme poverty.

4:46:30And if I saw anything in this report,

4:46:33I will never be a homeowner.

4:46:35I will die in rental housing, and I am not okay with that.

4:46:40And I know many of you are not okay with that either.

4:46:44And when I look at this, I don't see my community represented.

4:46:49When I looked at those numbers that were presented earlier

4:46:53for what a one bedroom would cost, what a bachelor cost.

4:46:56A single person on OW makes about $390.

4:46:59On ODSP, that's 582.

4:47:02Where can we rent these apartments?

4:47:05Home ownership is completely out of a possibility for me.

4:47:10And that is demoralizing.

4:47:12When I look at my apartment that I live in right now,

4:47:15there are rooms in my apartment I've never seen.

4:47:18And that sucks, to say the very least.

4:47:22And I wonder what can be done with the affordable housing

4:47:27strategy, and it has to change.

4:47:29There has to be things that are meant for people like myself.

4:47:33Like I said, home ownership is just not gonna be it.

4:47:36But there can be things that could be done

4:47:38to help find rental properties for us,

4:47:40things that could be done.

4:47:41Like one thing I was thinking about,

4:47:43obviously this vacant home tax seems to be

4:47:45a bit of a hot topic tonight.

4:47:47That'd be cool.

4:47:49But what about something to do renovations?

4:47:52Obviously we know what happened in the city with Brandt.

4:47:55And we have a person in my building

4:47:58who had to leave his apartment to,

4:48:01so three households had to come together to support one.

4:48:05That's a problem.

4:48:05This is utterly broken.

4:48:07And I've had many people mention that we stopped

4:48:10building social housing in the 90s.

4:48:13I don't know what you can do.

4:48:14I'm not an expert like all these people.

4:48:16I don't run a knot for profit.

4:48:17I don't have the expertise that I didn't go to university

4:48:20for all this sort of thing.

4:48:21Like I'm primarily a media guy.

4:48:23You need to ask me about Star Wars?

4:48:25I'm your guy.

4:48:25Ask me about public policy?

4:48:27I've got some ideas maybe.

4:48:29But it's like, when one of the delegates came up,

4:48:34I think her name was Susan,

4:48:35and she got very, very passionate.

4:48:37I felt that too.

4:48:39And part of me, like I said,

4:48:41is holding back a lot of emotion right now

4:48:43because I know this city can do something.

4:48:47But my question is, will it?

4:48:49And there's gonna be a lot of uncomfortable decisions

4:48:52that are gonna have to be made.

4:48:54But I'm asking you to do the bold decision.

4:48:57And I'm asking you guys to be on the right side of history

4:48:59to help people like myself

4:49:01to help the disabled community find places

4:49:04where we feel safe, where we feel secure.

4:49:07One of the things that came to me about this thing was like,

4:49:12housing is not a privilege.

4:49:13Housing is a right.

4:49:15Somebody in an abusive situation should have a place to go.

4:49:19They should be able to easily find a place to rent

4:49:21if they need to get away from an abusive partner.

4:49:24Someone who has a disability

4:49:26should be easily able to find an accessible place to live,

4:49:29especially in this COVID, post-COVID world

4:49:31that we live in now.

4:49:33You're gonna see those numbers jump pretty dramatically

4:49:35in the next couple of years.

4:49:37And I think we can do something.

4:49:40I just, I hope you guys will.

4:49:41And like I said, I really,

4:49:45I want housing to be something more.

4:49:49Your house should be where you feel secure, safe, loved.

4:49:53And ultimately, I shouldn't be paying

4:49:58for a prison where I feel trapped

4:49:59because I can't get out of it.

4:50:01And I'm hoping with more affordable housing,

4:50:03I will have that choice

4:50:05to choose where I spend whatever time I have left.

4:50:08And with that, I guess that's my delegation.

4:50:11Thanks, Mike.

4:50:12Thank you very much.

4:50:14Is there any follow-up for Mike at all at this time?

4:50:18Seeing none, but thank you very much.

4:50:25We are now to Cora.

4:50:27Cora is in the wings coming down.

4:50:31And is a Tay Anton here.

4:50:37You're up, you're in the wings, okay, Tay?

4:50:42Welcome, thank you very much.

4:50:43I'll turn it over to you whenever you're ready, okay?

4:50:46Thank you, Mayor Guthrie and members of council.

4:50:49My name is Cora Pacheco

4:50:50and I'm a parent of a 26-year-old daughter

4:50:53with Down syndrome.

4:50:54I'm also a member of and here representing

4:50:57the Guelph-Wollington Family Network.

4:51:00This is a group comprised of family members

4:51:02and unpaid caregivers who support a person

4:51:05with a developmental disability.

4:51:07The network is peer-based and led by families.

4:51:10On February 5th of this year,

4:51:12Mayor Guthrie and Councillor Orr-Werck

4:51:14actually came to speak at one of our network meetings

4:51:18where families shared their stories

4:51:20and the fact that our adult sons and daughters

4:51:23face overwhelming barriers

4:51:24to accessing affordable homes in our community.

4:51:28Myself and another parent from the network

4:51:30also attended one of the engagement meetings

4:51:33for the housing affordability strategy held by the city.

4:51:36And we gave our verbal and written feedback

4:51:38relating to the need for affordable housing

4:51:40for adults with developmental disabilities

4:51:43to the staff there.

4:51:45I'm here today to bring to the council's attention

4:51:47the absolute need for people with developmental disabilities

4:51:51to be explicitly included in this housing strategy

4:51:54because the current focus on below average rentals

4:51:58and home ownership is not attainable

4:52:00for this group of people.

4:52:02In this way, they are being excluded or relegated

4:52:07to the section of low priority actions.

4:52:10Such as action 3.13, enhanced social equity and inclusion,

4:52:163.15, promote affordable and inclusive housing priorities

4:52:20or principles rather, 3.14, work with health support

4:52:24and service providers.

4:52:26As you may know, people with developmental disabilities

4:52:28live on a fixed income being ODSP benefits.

4:52:32This income does not afford people

4:52:34even the lowest cost rental in our city.

4:52:37You may have also heard in the media

4:52:39and through letters to the editor of Guelph Today

4:52:41that agencies such as Community Living Guelph Wellington

4:52:45and Hople Services are not receiving the necessary funding

4:52:48from the Ministry of Children, Community and Social Services

4:52:52in order to provide housing and support services

4:52:54to this population of people.

4:52:57Recently, Community Living Guelph Wellington

4:53:00put out an information pamphlet that outlines these issues.

4:53:04And in it, they profile one individual

4:53:06with a developmental disability

4:53:07who lives with her 86 year old mother

4:53:10and has been on the housing wait list for 22 years.

4:53:14And they also stated that they on their wait list

4:53:17have more than 140 people.

4:53:21I noticed that Hopewell also submitted a letter

4:53:24to for tonight's meeting and they indicated

4:53:28they have 120 adults on their wait list.

4:53:32The only other subsidized housing option in Guelph

4:53:34is to get on the waiting list for subsidized housing

4:53:36at the County of Wellington.

4:53:38And we all know how taxed that system is.

4:53:41You cannot even apply to get the Canada Ontario housing

4:53:44benefit through the county

4:53:45if you have a developmental disability.

4:53:48I know this because I tried to do that for my daughter

4:53:50a couple of months ago and was denied.

4:53:53I know it's easy for the city to say

4:53:55that this group of people fall under the county's jurisdiction

4:53:59or under the ministries

4:54:00or under developmental services jurisdiction.

4:54:02But the sad reality is that it's all just a mirage

4:54:05from the very far off distance.

4:54:07And we're all waiting for something

4:54:09that never materializes for our adult sons and daughters.

4:54:13I'm therefore respectfully asking that council consider

4:54:16and explicitly include the needs of this group of adults.

4:54:19The issue of fairness and inclusivity

4:54:22demand that their needs be represented

4:54:24in this housing affordability strategy.

4:54:27If you deny them this, you're then excluding them

4:54:29from benefiting from this initiative.

4:54:31Even though they fall within the group of residents

4:54:34who can least afford to pay for housing and wealth.

4:54:37And this would go against the vision and goals set on

4:54:40on page four of the proposed housing affordability strategy.

4:54:44Goal number two says our community can contribute

4:54:47to diverse and inclusive housing options for everyone.

4:54:51As outlined in the letter that I submitted

4:54:54for today's meeting, I'm asking council

4:54:56to include the city's affordable housing

4:55:00to include in the city's housing affordability strategy,

4:55:04specific provisions for citizens of Guelph

4:55:06with developmental disabilities.

4:55:08Such measures can include setting aside dedicated units

4:55:13reserved for individuals with developmental disabilities,

4:55:16mandating that a percentage of units

4:55:18in all new affordable housing developments

4:55:20be reserved for people with DD,

4:55:23costing no more than 30% of the tenants income.

4:55:27Partnering with developmental services organizations

4:55:30and families that support individuals

4:55:33and focusing on housing projects that integrate people

4:55:35with developmental disabilities into the broader community

4:55:38and thereby promoting inclusion.

4:55:42I respectfully refer to the calls to action set out

4:55:45in my letter, especially to include specific targets

4:55:48and funding allocations for deeply affordable housing

4:55:51for people with DD in all upcoming housing plans

4:55:55and in this housing affordability strategy.

4:55:57And to establish a working group with representation

4:56:00from housing providers, developmental service organizations

4:56:04and individuals with lived experience to work together

4:56:06and to advocate at the provincial and federal levels