Councillor Caron called a Point of Privilege regarding comments made by Mayor Guthrie. Mayor Guthrie provided clarifying remarks. That proposed Table 5.3 be amended to require…

1:14:25This is a decision report,

1:14:29which is of the permitting of four dwelling units

1:14:31on a lot city initiated zoning bylaw amendment.

1:14:35We're gonna start with a couple of staff presentations

1:14:38just to set the stage,

1:14:41or since we're talking about building to set the foundation,

1:14:43I'll just do a little dad joke there for everybody.

1:14:46Set the foundation for what we're gonna talk about.

1:14:49And then we have one delegation as well

1:14:53and a couple pieces of correspondence.

1:14:55So why don't I turn it over to staff?

1:14:58To both Kuscha Matthews, our development advisor,

1:15:02Katie Nazbader is our senior development planner.

1:15:06I'll turn it over to you,

1:15:09and you can walk everyone through

1:15:11what we're looking at here for this item.

1:15:12Thank you very much.

1:15:26All right, so thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:15:31Hello, Mayor Guthrie and members of Council.

1:15:34We are here today to present four decision,

1:15:37the recommended zoning regulations to enable four units

1:15:41on low density residential lots citywide.

1:15:45On this particular item,

1:15:46we were last year on April 9th

1:15:48for the statutory public meeting

1:15:50where the draft regulations were presented.

1:16:03Before we get into the recommended regulations

1:16:05and some of the changes that have been made since April

1:16:07to take into consideration public feedback,

1:16:10let's quickly go over a few details.

1:16:13Right now, through provincial direction and legislation

1:16:16provided in November of 2022 through Bill 23

1:16:19and embedded within our comprehensive zoning bylaw,

1:16:22that is currently under appeal.

1:16:24Three units as of right are permitted.

1:16:28In a scan of trends around three units as of right,

1:16:31uptake has been limited.

1:16:34Our approach to these recommended regulations

1:16:37is to balance the low density character

1:16:39of existing neighborhoods

1:16:41through maintaining what is currently permitted

1:16:43for residential buildings through setbacks

1:16:46and height requirements,

1:16:48while also enabling more units to fit

1:16:50within the existing building envelopes.

1:16:54As of right, does not mean that units can be built

1:16:57without first demonstrating adequate stormwater,

1:17:01water and wastewater services.

1:17:04Enabling the potential for more housing

1:17:07where existing housing already exists

1:17:10is one way to use the land that we have

1:17:12with them in our boundary more efficiently.

1:17:15Not everyone who lives on a lot

1:17:18that could support additional units

1:17:20will choose to build them.

1:17:23However, removing one barrier,

1:17:25like going through a zone change,

1:17:27is one way to support accelerating the creation

1:17:30of housing supply and why it is linked

1:17:34to a commitment made through the Housing Accelerator Fund.

1:17:38In addition, more recently,

1:17:41the federal government has indicated

1:17:43that to be able to apply for future housing enabling funding,

1:17:46like the $6 billion Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund,

1:17:51only municipalities that have legalized

1:17:54and implemented four units are eligible to apply.

1:17:59This means the bylaw must be enforced in effect

1:18:01by spring of 2025.

1:18:08So, providing a more flexible environment

1:18:11in which to build additional dwelling units, or ADUs,

1:18:14is only one tool in our toolbox.

1:18:17It is not the solution to the housing affordability crisis.

1:18:21However, there are many reasons

1:18:24why ADUs offer exciting possibilities.

1:18:27ADUs are an affordable housing option.

1:18:30They generate rental income to help cover mortgage payments

1:18:34or simply make ends meet.

1:18:37ADUs are age-friendly.

1:18:39New construction ADUs, or fourplexes,

1:18:41can be created with universal design features,

1:18:44such as zero-step entrances and doorways, hallways,

1:18:48and bathrooms that are accessible

1:18:50to people with mobility differences.

1:18:53ADUs are able to house people of all ages.

1:18:58They offer young people entry-level housing choices.

1:19:02They enable families to expand beyond their primary home.

1:19:07And they provide empty nesters

1:19:08the option of moving into a smaller space

1:19:11within a neighborhood they are comfortable

1:19:13while renting out the larger house.

1:19:17ADUs can be just the right size.

1:19:20Generally measuring between 600 to 800 square meters,

1:19:24or square feet, sorry, ADUs work well

1:19:28for the one and two bedroom homes

1:19:30needed by today's smaller households,

1:19:33which now account for a larger portion

1:19:36of households in North America.

1:19:38And finally, ADUs are community-compatible.

1:19:42They offer a way to include smaller,

1:19:45relatively affordable homes in established neighborhoods

1:19:48without addition to an area of sprawl.

1:19:53So again, just coming back to the Housing Accelerator Fund

1:19:57initiatives, this is one of eight overall initiatives.

1:19:59It falls into initiative number six,

1:20:02which is encouraging missing middle across our city.

1:20:08So a few of the proposed changes included

1:20:10in the Recommended Stoning Bylaw Amendment

1:20:12are an introduction or introducing a definition

1:20:15for four plex, which would apply to a building

1:20:18consisting of four units on a single lot.

1:20:21It also speaks to permitting a maximum of three ADUs

1:20:25on a lot with a single detached primary dwelling

1:20:28to result in a maximum of four units per lot.

1:20:33It also introduces an approach to parking,

1:20:35such that for an ADU, one space is required

1:20:38for the first unit within additional space

1:20:41required for each of the third and fourth units.

1:20:45For a four plex, then, one space per dwelling unit

1:20:48is required to a maximum of three spaces.

1:20:53We're also introducing new ways to configure ADUs

1:20:56within the building envelope.

1:21:01So what could this look like?

1:21:03This is consideration of unit configurations,

1:21:06and they could include, they could include others,

1:21:08but these are some of the examples.

1:21:10They could include four units in a building,

1:21:12either as a four plex, or as a primary dwelling unit

1:21:17with three ADUs.

1:21:19They could be three units in the primary dwelling unit

1:21:22and one ADU in a separate building.

1:21:28Or they could be two units in the primary dwelling unit

1:21:31and two ADUs in a separate building

1:21:34as one two-story unit.

1:21:41So again, I just want you to focus on the top row here.

1:21:44I'll go to the second row in a minute,

1:21:46but the top row here is just images

1:21:48of another way of showing this.

1:21:49So the top row shows a four plex on a mid-block parcel,

1:21:54and then a four plex on a corner lot.

1:21:58For these images, this could be a primary dwelling

1:22:04with two internal ADUs and one detached dwelling.

1:22:08While the image on the right is a primary dwelling

1:22:12with one internal ADU and two detached stacked ADUs.

1:22:26So as we've shared before,

1:22:29wealth has approximately 40,000 lots

1:22:32and 32,000 of them are zoned low density.

1:22:37Without changing anything in our current zoning bylaw,

1:22:40four units could be supported

1:22:42on approximately 11,100 of these lots.

1:22:47With the added flexibility

1:22:49in the recommended zoning bylaw amendment,

1:22:51this could increase to approximately 14,250 lots,

1:22:56so approximately 3,100 units.

1:23:01The majority of this increased flexibility

1:23:04can be contributed to reducing the parking

1:23:07by one required space,

1:23:09which is a middle of the road approach

1:23:11when compared against other municipalities

1:23:14that have already legalized four units.

1:23:17And one of those municipalities that went through

1:23:20was last night with the city of Waterloo,

1:23:21where they also took a three parking space approach.

1:23:28Of the lots that could support four units,

1:23:30a very small percentage could be severed

1:23:33where each of these severed lots

1:23:34could then also support four units.

1:23:42We also wanted to show these maps side by side

1:23:44to illustrate where four units

1:23:46could most likely be accommodated.

1:23:48So the one on the left is showing

1:23:50where gentle density is currently happening

1:23:52with the darker being where it's more prominent.

1:23:56And the one on the right shows

1:23:57where it could most likely be accommodated.

1:24:00And what we really wanted to point out here

1:24:02is that it's very clear that it is dispersed across the city

1:24:06and not tied to only one or two specific neighborhoods.

1:24:14These are some renderings that our consultants

1:24:16also prepared for us in terms of showing

1:24:19what a fourplex could look like,

1:24:21what's called mid-blocks,

1:24:22so sort of put into an existing neighborhood.

1:24:25So here it is.

1:24:26And here's what one way it could be divided

1:24:29into four different units,

1:24:30so two on the main and two on the upper floors.

1:24:37This is a fourplex on a corner lot.

1:24:40And again, showing one way that it could be divided,

1:24:43again, two on the main and two units on the upper floors.

1:24:47It could be various other ways

1:24:48that could be divided as well to create four units.

1:24:54These are some examples of existing dwellings in Guelph

1:24:58in terms of either ADUs or triplexes or fourplexes

1:25:01on the top left.

1:25:02Or as if there are two main units,

1:25:05there are two units in the main dwelling

1:25:08and one detached ADU in the back.

1:25:10The one on the top right is a triplex in Guelph

1:25:13and the one down below in the middle

1:25:15is a existing fourplex in Guelph.

1:25:20In terms of a few more images just for renderings

1:25:22of what this could look like,

1:25:24this is showing on the left,

1:25:26you can see sort of the main dwelling

1:25:28where there could be one internal ADU.

1:25:31And then in the backyard,

1:25:33you could see that there are two detached ADUs

1:25:36that are stacked.

1:25:37There's one on the main and one on the upper floor.

1:25:43In terms of this, this is also,

1:25:45again, there could be one primary dwelling,

1:25:48two internal ADUs in the main dwelling

1:25:52and then one detached ADU in the backyard.

1:25:55That is two levels.

1:25:56This could also be one level as well.

1:25:58These are just examples of what you possibly could see.

1:26:04And finally, for my part,

1:26:05before I hand it over to Katie,

1:26:07these are some existing ADUs in Guelph,

1:26:10detached ADUs in Guelph,

1:26:12showing on the left a single story ADU in the backyard,

1:26:17again, with still trees surrounding it.

1:26:20In the middle and the right

1:26:22are also detached ADUs in the backyard.

1:26:25And now I'm gonna hand it over to Katie

1:26:27to get into a bit more specifics.

1:26:38Thank you, good afternoon everyone.

1:26:43I'm going to be highlighting some key aspects

1:26:46of the proposed planning applications

1:26:48to achieve four units on a lot,

1:26:50either through four plexes or by permitting

1:26:52up to three additional dwelling units on a property.

1:26:56This presentation and report are also part

1:26:59of a statutory public meeting

1:27:00for a city-initiated official plan amendment.

1:27:03Following the initial zoning review in public meeting,

1:27:06it was confirmed that an official plan amendment

1:27:09is needed for an official plan policy

1:27:12that was adopted through OPA 88

1:27:14to allow three units on a lot

1:27:16in keeping with bill 23.

1:27:19Policy 9325, it states that the maximum net density

1:27:25set out in policy 9323 does not apply

1:27:30to multiple unit residential buildings

1:27:33with three dwelling units or less.

1:27:36And similarly, that policy 9323 does not apply

1:27:42to multiple unit residential buildings

1:27:43with three dwelling units or less.

1:27:45So those two policies both need to be updated

1:27:48where it says three to say four now

1:27:51so that four units were not measuring density

1:27:55on individual lots essentially.

1:27:57So that is an administrative change

1:27:58that we need to make through this amendment.

1:28:03In terms of the proposed zoning by law amendment,

1:28:05I'm going to highlight the key areas of change

1:28:08we're recommending to allow up to four units

1:28:10through four plexes or up to three ADUs.

1:28:14I'll also note that there are a couple of errors

1:28:17in attachment two of the report,

1:28:19which is meant to highlight the proposed changes

1:28:21to the zoning by law.

1:28:23Specifically, it still says that semi-detached duplex

1:28:26and triplex dwellings would permit ADUs up to four units,

1:28:30but we're actually not recommending changes to those.

1:28:33That's a carryover from the public meeting.

1:28:36And so those changes are already reflected

1:28:40in the existing by-law that's proposed today.

1:28:43So by-law 2024-21024 in the agenda

1:28:49does set out the correct wording,

1:28:51but we wanted to highlight that there was an error there.

1:28:57In terms of parking, as was already highlighted by Kushla,

1:29:01the staff continued to recommend

1:29:04a reduced parking requirement for ADUs and four plexes,

1:29:07requiring three spaces for four plexes

1:29:10and one space less than the number of ADUs as well.

1:29:14So requiring still a parking space

1:29:16for the main dwelling unit, none for the second,

1:29:20and then a space again for a third or fourth unit

1:29:23if those were built as well.

1:29:25Trying to increase the flexibility

1:29:28and accommodate up to another 3,000 properties,

1:29:32having the ability to accommodate four units

1:29:35just by that change alone.

1:29:47Not good at switching slides ever.

1:29:49Thank you.

1:29:51In terms of height, there are no changes

1:29:54to the overall building heights being made,

1:29:56both for four plexes and houses with ADUs.

1:30:00As the same as single detached dwellings,

1:30:04all are permitted to be up to three stories at night.

1:30:07The one change for detached ADUs,

1:30:11they're currently permitted to be 6.1 meters

1:30:13if they're over a garage.

1:30:15And we're recommending that this height

1:30:17apply more broadly to detached ADUs,

1:30:20allowing them to be two stories in height as of right,

1:30:23up to 6.1 meters.

1:30:26Through additional, and there's also additional regulations

1:30:29that have been added to require a greater setback

1:30:33if there's a two-story unit with a window or door

1:30:37or balcony facing a property line.

1:30:40So increasing the setback to address concerns

1:30:43about privacy and overlook.

1:30:52There was also a question about

1:30:56what three stories looks like at its maximum height.

1:31:01And if I can change the slide, thank you.

1:31:06Including the ultimate height, any single detached

1:31:11or low density lot could be really,

1:31:14including a basement and a peak roof and three full stories.

1:31:18And our consultants were able to illustrate that

1:31:20with this diagram.

1:31:23It illustrates the type of built form

1:31:24that could be accommodated on any low density lot.

1:31:27And that's whether the built form is already allowed

1:31:30through a single detached dwelling as a foreplex

1:31:33or as a main dwelling with ADUs.

1:31:37So this is kind of the already allowed height.

1:31:41And that would also be permitted for a foreplex.

1:31:48And here's kind of how it's divided again.

1:31:50Potentially as a foreplex, though,

1:31:52there's many different ways to divide these lots,

1:31:55to divide units on the lot

1:31:56within the existing permitted building envelope.

1:32:03And since public meeting, there have been two key changes

1:32:06proposed related to ADUs.

1:32:08First, that four units on a lot

1:32:10would be limited to single detached lots.

1:32:14Semi detached on street, town, duplex and triplex

1:32:17would continue to be limited to three units on a lot,

1:32:20which is the current permission.

1:32:22This change is based on concerns we heard

1:32:24through the community engagement

1:32:26and our lot analysis that indicated

1:32:29the minimum lot size and frontage

1:32:31of semi-detached dwellings limited the number

1:32:34that could accommodate four units.

1:32:36Staff's recommendation to focus on four units

1:32:39on single detached lots at this time

1:32:42is intended to be a more incremental and cautious approach

1:32:44to allowing four units on a lot,

1:32:47given the concerns raised by the public,

1:32:49and the ability to meet all the standard zoning

1:32:53regulations on the smallest and narrow list

1:32:55of low density lots.

1:33:02Staff are also recommending that up to two ADUs

1:33:05be permitted in the rear yard,

1:33:07but they must be contained in the same building,

1:33:09whereas at the initial public meeting,

1:33:12two separate buildings were considered.

1:33:14This change addresses concerns about overbuilding

1:33:17in the rear yard, concerns about tree protection,

1:33:22and limiting the overall footprint of the detached ADU.

1:33:32Thank you.

1:33:34Staff continue to recommend that ADUs

1:33:36no longer be restricted by size in the main dwelling,

1:33:39but rather by the overall size

1:33:40of the main building envelope.

1:33:44We also recommend that detached ADUs

1:33:47be limited in size to 80 square meters apiece,

1:33:51and that the number of bedrooms

1:33:52continues to no longer be regulated by the zoning by-law,

1:33:55but rather by the building code.

1:34:02The recommended zoning and official plan amendments

1:34:05would permit four units on a lot,

1:34:06and the additional zoning regulation changes

1:34:09related to reduced parking would provide flexibility

1:34:12to allow approximately 3,000 more lots across the city,

1:34:18and to be able to achieve that four units.

1:34:21These recommendations are in line

1:34:23with federal direction on housing

1:34:24and the city's commitment to permitting four units

1:34:27under the $21 million half agreement,

1:34:31and implementation of these regulations

1:34:33would also make the city eligible

1:34:34for more recent Canada Housing Infrastructure Fund funding,

1:34:39which is a $6 billion potential fund

1:34:41aimed at key infrastructure projects

1:34:43needed to support new housing supply.

1:34:46We're happy to answer any questions you may have.

1:34:49With us today are the leads from our consulting team,

1:34:52Ute, Maya, Gia, Matista, and Cameron Parkin

1:34:55from O2 Planning and Design,

1:34:57and they're also available to answer any questions

1:34:59related to the background report

1:35:01and the recommendations we have before you.

1:35:03Thank you.

1:35:06Thank you to staff for your presentations.

1:35:09We appreciate it.

1:35:10We do have one delegation in regards to this.

1:35:13Is Mary Kate Greig here?

1:35:18Yes, come on down.

1:35:30Welcome.

1:35:31Yeah, thank you for coming.

1:35:33Yeah, the green light is on on the microphone there.

1:35:36You have no more than five minutes if you need it.

1:36:10You good?

1:36:11I'm gonna rewind.

1:36:12Okay.

1:36:13About 10 seconds.

1:36:14Not you.

1:36:16You have 10 minutes.

1:36:18Up to 10 minutes if you need it.

1:36:20And you'll hear a chime at the nine minute and 30 second mark,

1:36:24which would be a warning that your time is almost up

1:36:27if you need it, okay?

1:36:28And is that because I was going to speak about two things?

1:36:33Nope, just on this one item, you have up to 10.

1:36:35Okay, great.

1:36:36Okay, I apologize.

1:36:38I thought it was only up to five.

1:36:40But it's...

1:36:41I don't think I want to tell you.

1:36:42I wanna make sure I do it.

1:36:42Yeah, that's okay.

1:36:43So I'll turn it over to you.

1:36:44You go right ahead.

1:36:45Great, thanks.

1:36:47So thank you for allowing me this space.

1:36:51My name is Mary Kate Craig.

1:36:53I'm part of the Junction Village Community Land Trust

1:36:56and also part of the Junction Village Gualph,

1:37:00which is an urban intentional community here in Gualph.

1:37:04For a long time, we would joke about everything

1:37:07that we were envisioning.

1:37:09We wanted to do it.

1:37:10The Junction Village was illegal.

1:37:13So we applaud what is happening

1:37:16and the direction that things are moving in.

1:37:19We are very thankful that a lot of what we are now envisioning

1:37:25is actually in line with what we will be allowed to do.

1:37:30So thank you for moving in that direction.

1:37:34What we are committed to doing at the Junction Village

1:37:37is to creating spaces that really honor the land,

1:37:42that honor the creation of community.

1:37:45So it's about much more than creating buildings and spaces.

1:37:51It's about really redefining how we are living

1:37:54in our urban spaces so that homes are what we are creating.

1:38:00So that houses are actually allowed to go back

1:38:03to being homes and no longer an investment vehicle

1:38:08that we have here in our city.

1:38:09So we would just encourage everybody to keep rethinking

1:38:16about how we can live together

1:38:19and allow that self-expression,

1:38:23that different neighborhoods to actually take form.

1:38:27What we really want to see is really liveable,

1:38:31walkable communities.

1:38:32They won't all look the same everywhere.

1:38:35We're hoping through the Junction Village Community Land Trust

1:38:38that we will create many pockets

1:38:40of different housing ecosystems here in the city.

1:38:44But we want each one of those to form

1:38:47in a really different, vibrant, individual way

1:38:51so that it actually meets the needs

1:38:53of each different community.

1:38:57And the other thing that I would just put forward

1:39:00is really about parking.

1:39:03So I really applaud that we are rolling back

1:39:07some of the needs around parking

1:39:09so that we're not building just large car parks.

1:39:12We're actually able to create spaces where we can get our

1:39:16hands into the earth and actually create spaces

1:39:19that people want to be in.

1:39:21And I would encourage us to keep pulling that back

1:39:25even further and really rethink our city

1:39:28so that cars are not the central consideration.

1:39:33And so I would ask that we keep increasing ways

1:39:37that we can move around the city

1:39:39and keep making sure that the spaces are liveable

1:39:45and walkable and that we allow shops

1:39:48and different entities to come into spaces

1:39:51that have previously just been only allowing

1:39:56single family homes to develop.

1:39:58So that's the main thing that I really wanted to come here

1:40:01and say is thanks for going in this direction

1:40:04and keep being bold.

1:40:06We're not going to get there through increments.

1:40:09We're in a time of breakdown.

1:40:11We really are.

1:40:12We're in a time of global breakdown.

1:40:14And what we do, and Guelph has always been a city

1:40:19that is bold and on the cutting edge of what is possible.

1:40:23So I would really ask for each one of us

1:40:27to go further, to go right to where the line is

1:40:32and lean over it and let's really create something

1:40:36that puts Guelph on the map,

1:40:38as we have always known it has been,

1:40:40as this really livable, beautiful city that we know it is.

1:40:46So thanks for the time.

1:40:48Great, thank you.

1:40:49I have one follow up question for you.

1:40:51So just a Councillor Gull or go ahead.

1:40:54Thank you and through your worship.

1:40:56Thank you so much for your presentation, Marrake.

1:40:58You mentioned that we're a progressive city

1:41:02and I believe that you have folks in your neighborhood

1:41:05and you have some multi-residential

1:41:08that you're familiar with.

1:41:10The question of reduced parking from your perspective

1:41:13and the folks that you live with, some of your tenants,

1:41:16do we still need one parking spot per unit?

1:41:20Our experience, what we have at the moment,

1:41:23we have actually very few tenants who have cars

1:41:29and we have a community car share on site

1:41:34and we've actually had a contract signed

1:41:36to have a community car share there for about 12 years now

1:41:39and we now have a car and that is very used.

1:41:43So the people who live in our community

1:41:46use that community car share regularly

1:41:49and yeah, we do not require that number

1:41:52of parking spaces in any way, shape or form.

1:41:55Great, thank you.

1:41:56And just so that we understand,

1:41:58when we're talking about the tenants,

1:42:01is it families, single people, a mix of people?

1:42:03So for the Junction Village Guelph,

1:42:06we have two single family homes

1:42:09that are right next door to each other.

1:42:10One is our own home and then across the road from that,

1:42:15we have a six-plex apartment building

1:42:17and the house that is adjacent to us

1:42:19is really a co-living house.

1:42:22So we have many people who are living there

1:42:26at different times, some are students,

1:42:30are there for many, many years,

1:42:32or permanent residents and some are there

1:42:34on a shorter term basis.

1:42:36But I would say the majority of people

1:42:39who live there do not have cars.

1:42:41I really appreciate your sharing those insights.

1:42:43Thank you so much.

1:42:44Thanks.

1:42:45Thank you, Worship.

1:42:46One second, because Councillor Allt has put up his hand as well.

1:42:49So go ahead.

1:42:50Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie.

1:42:52Through you to Ms. Craig and Ms. Craig, first of all,

1:42:54thank you for the vision that you do have in that area.

1:42:57I think it's pretty darn neat, actually.

1:42:59I'm not chicken to say that.

1:43:02But I do have a question, it's a problematic question.

1:43:04I'm going to pose to staff as well.

1:43:07When I started doing the math on what it would cost

1:43:09for additional dwelling units,

1:43:12I'm looking at almost up,

1:43:14almost close to a million dollars for four plexus.

1:43:17And I'm very, very concerned that with how is it

1:43:19at the cost that it is,

1:43:21that what we are going to see is not a vision like yours,

1:43:25which I respect and I think it's fabulous,

1:43:27but rather we are going to see investors come in.

1:43:30And rather than putting in something that is village-like

1:43:33as you've proposed,

1:43:35put in essentially units that are an investment in for profit.

1:43:40How do we deal with that?

1:43:42I can tell you how.

1:43:43I think you should deal with it,

1:43:44which is to encourage something like the Community Land Trust

1:43:50to own as many different properties

1:43:53as we possibly can in Guelph.

1:43:54Like I would be envisioning this,

1:43:57and I know this makes people laugh when I say this,

1:44:00but it should be owning kind of a third of Guelph type of scale

1:44:04because the Community Land Trust underpinning that

1:44:08allows the values off the Community Land Trust

1:44:11to actually be what drives the development.

1:44:14So you could still have houses above the Community Land Trust

1:44:19that are in private ownership

1:44:21through long-term tenancy agreements

1:44:24and the creation of many different units,

1:44:27but you would be underpinning it with very different values

1:44:31than the corporate bottom line investor vehicle values.

1:44:36You'd actually be infusing in it the values off,

1:44:40let's actually create thriving livable, walkable villages

1:44:46rather than spaces that are commodities.

1:44:49So.

1:44:50Thank you very much for the values statement.

1:44:52Okay, thank you.

1:44:53I see nothing more for real this time.

1:44:55You're done.

1:44:56I can't get it.

1:44:57Okay, thank you.

1:44:58I know many people are here in the audience,

1:45:01probably for the, perhaps a couple of the other items

1:45:04that are coming up on the agenda,

1:45:07but as is the process here,

1:45:10we're gonna throw a full number up on the screen

1:45:13and also ask in the room if there's someone

1:45:15that wants to speak directly just to this item

1:45:18about four plexes.

1:45:21I can get the number up there.

1:45:23I know it's 519837 something.

1:45:25There it is.

1:45:265198375603.

1:45:29We're just gonna take a four or five minute break tops

1:45:32just to see if someone wanted to speak on this item.

1:45:36And then is there anyone else in this room

1:45:38that just wanted to speak on this one?

1:45:42Is there anyone at all?

1:45:44Okay, we got one more here.

1:45:46If you wanna wait, just wait two minutes

1:45:48and then I'll call you down.

1:45:49I'll just wait for the,

1:45:50just to see if anyone comes here

1:45:52and then we'll go with you, okay?

1:45:54Okay, thank you.

1:45:55Just let us just take a breath everyone for two, three minutes

1:45:58and we'll come back to our regularly scheduled program.

1:49:58I'll call the meeting back to order

1:50:00and we did not get anyone wanting to call in,

1:50:02but we saw one person that wishes to come down.

1:50:06So we'll take you.

1:50:08And just as the record here in the process,

1:50:11we just require you to say your name for us

1:50:14so it could be captured in the minutes.

1:50:16And then again, you would have no more than 10 minutes

1:50:18if you need it as well.

1:50:20Okay, so go right ahead.

1:50:27Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie

1:50:29and members of Guelph City Council.

1:50:31My name is Dylan Fraser.

1:50:32I'm a broker with Royal LaPage Royal City Realty

1:50:35here in Guelph, past president of the Guelph

1:50:37and District Association of Realtors.

1:50:39And now director on the One Point

1:50:41of Association of Realtors.

1:50:42For those of you who may not know,

1:50:43One Point is our newly formed association

1:50:46which represents over 3,000

1:50:47hardworking real estate representatives.

1:50:51In Bruce, here on Guelph, Wellington,

1:50:54Simcoe, Muskoka and Perry Sound.

1:50:56And One Point has brought together these four associations

1:51:00including the Guelph and District Association of Realtors

1:51:02to offer better services to our members

1:51:04and increase our emphasis on government relations.

1:51:07We're proud to work with our elected officials

1:51:10at all levels of government

1:51:12to help all residents find attainable housing.

1:51:15Today I wish to express One Point's strong support

1:51:18of this critical initiative in front of you.

1:51:21The four units as of right amendment

1:51:24is a meaningful step towards more attainable housing

1:51:27for Guelph residents.

1:51:29The proposed bylaw allowing up to four dwelling units

1:51:32on low density residential lots

1:51:34is a practical forward thinking solution

1:51:37to increase our city's housing supply.

1:51:40By unlocking the potential for over 14,000 lots,

1:51:46this amendment enables property owners

1:51:48to create a diverse mix of housing types

1:51:50such as duplexes, triplexes and fourplexes

1:51:53without the need for rezoning.

1:51:56This approach provides options for families

1:51:58at different life stages,

1:52:00from couples entering the market

1:52:02to seniors looking to downsize.

1:52:04It also supports a small scale development,

1:52:08allowing builders to create housing options

1:52:10faster and more affordably.

1:52:12Maintaining existing setbacks and height limits

1:52:16ensures that these changes integrate seamlessly

1:52:18into the character of our neighborhoods.

1:52:21Overall, this bylaw embodies a balanced approach to growth,

1:52:26addressing urgent housing needs,

1:52:28while respecting our community's values.

1:52:31While some municipalities continue to rest

1:52:34on antiquated housing models,

1:52:36Guelph is a shining light of what is possible

1:52:38when our leaders come together to solve complex challenges

1:52:42like our housing affordability crisis.

1:52:44We urge you to vote in favor of this bylaw amendment

1:52:47and support affordable homes for families

1:52:49in the city of Guelph.

1:52:50Thank you.

1:52:52Great, thank you Dylan for coming.

1:52:54Is there any follow up for, okay,

1:52:55Councillor Boussa-Till please.

1:52:57Yes, thank you.

1:52:58And through the mayor, I apologize.

1:52:59I just heard Dylan, your name.

1:53:00Can you just repeat your name?

1:53:03And I'm not clear if you're speaking

1:53:05on behalf of yourself or if this is a survey

1:53:08of your members or so on, if you can, sorry, I missed that.

1:53:11No trouble.

1:53:11I'm here on behalf of the One Point Association of Realtors.

1:53:16So newly amalgamated, including the former

1:53:19Guelph and District Association of Realtors.

1:53:22You're welcome.

1:53:22And Councillor Boussa, I'm sorry, Councillor O'Rourke.

1:53:26Thank you Mayor Guthrie, through you to the delegate.

1:53:29I'm not sure if you've had the opportunity

1:53:30to read the Gentle Density Study,

1:53:32but it actually does a deep dive into some assumptions

1:53:35around surrounding property values and states

1:53:38that it may in fact enhance surrounding property values.

1:53:41And so I'm just wondering if that's the experience

1:53:43of your association.

1:53:46Sure, yes, I mean, certainly with additional dwelling units

1:53:50with the ability for more revenue

1:53:52that's naturally increases the value of properties.

1:53:56I think at the same time, sort of building off

1:53:59what Councillor Altad had forewarned, if you will,

1:54:04earlier is that it also allows an income option

1:54:08for people to be able to get into property.

1:54:10So it sort of has that additional effect, if you will.

1:54:14That's terrific.

1:54:15Thanks very much.

1:54:16Yeah, for sure.

1:54:17Great, thank you again for coming.

1:54:19Appreciate it.

1:54:21Okay, Council, it is back to us.

1:54:25And so I just wanted, so Councillor O'Rourke had mentioned

1:54:31moving the recommendations,

1:54:32would someone be willing to second them?

1:54:34Councillor Cawson?

1:54:35Yeah, okay, Councillor Cawson.

1:54:37And again, just wanting to highlight to Council

1:54:44the amount of items that we have on our agenda tonight,

1:54:48just be aware of time as we try to move through them.

1:54:51And if we could get to any questions

1:54:53that we have right now, I'll go to Councillor Gibson.

1:54:58Thank you, you three, Mr. Mayor.

1:55:00Appreciate the delegations,

1:55:02appreciate the presentation from staff.

1:55:03I just wanted to unpack one scenario with staff.

1:55:06I heard you say very clearly that this is related

1:55:10to single detached only and that on street

1:55:14and semi-detached homes are three, as of right.

1:55:19I just, I can't get past the follow-up sharing

1:55:24a little bit of a story,

1:55:25then I'll ask how this is going to be mitigated

1:55:27through passing of a four-plex by right.

1:55:31There's a neighborhood,

1:55:31there's neighborhoods in the East End where I go visit

1:55:34and people are telling me that they haven't parked

1:55:36in front of their house in five years,

1:55:38that their neighbor occupies the on-street parking spot

1:55:41and before they leave that on-street parking spot,

1:55:44they have their other car waiting to occupy it.

1:55:48That's how competitive and tight on-street parking is

1:55:52in so many of our neighborhoods

1:55:54where these basement apartments have gone in, these ADUs.

1:55:57How are we going to mitigate and avoid,

1:56:01and I'll just pose that too quick.

1:56:04What is the perceived risk of introducing this four-plex

1:56:08by right with a reduced parking minimum

1:56:10for our suburban neighborhoods

1:56:11and why wouldn't we want to limit this to an area

1:56:14closer to the densities of the downtown and the transit?

1:56:20I think you're going to tell me

1:56:21that it's linked to federal funding,

1:56:23but I'll let you answer that question.

1:56:33Yep.

1:56:34Through you, Margarita, Heather Gibson.

1:56:37I'll start with the last part of your question and yes,

1:56:42in order to fulfill our commitment

1:56:45for the Housing Accelerator Fund,

1:56:47this zoning by all amendment would need

1:56:50to be permitted city-wide across all neighborhoods

1:56:54across our city.

1:56:56And then perhaps I might pass it to Katie

1:57:00for the mitigating parking.

1:57:02Through you, Margarita, Councillor Gibson.

1:57:13They're definitely heard these issues around parking

1:57:17in some neighborhoods, but it's not consistent.

1:57:19It does depend on the existing situation

1:57:25and makeup of that particular street.

1:57:28So where one street, there's a higher demand

1:57:31for parking than another and it really does depend

1:57:33on those owners and neighbors,

1:57:36but in staff's opinion, providing for the flexibility

1:57:41is a really balanced approach to take.

1:57:45Certainly many, many lots across the city

1:57:49already allow for four parking spaces,

1:57:51so it would be no change for many of them,

1:57:53but especially in the downtown,

1:57:55we find adding that reduction in one space

1:57:59does provide more flexibility

1:58:01to potentially allow more supply of these types of units.

1:58:07Okay, I'll just speak from the hard load.

1:58:11I get increasingly uncomfortable

1:58:13with the infill style that I'm seeing

1:58:16when I see it on the landscape.

1:58:18I guess my question is, if we go to four units,

1:58:22three parking spaces, even at this point now

1:58:25where we have three units and three parking spaces

1:58:27for the on street towns, semi-detached,

1:58:31the case I'm thinking of,

1:58:33it really is our committee of adjustment

1:58:35that's holding these neighborhoods together.

1:58:42The committee of adjustment requests go in

1:58:45and the committee of adjustments are the ones

1:58:47that are turning down the parking expansion.

1:58:49So the units go in, but the parking expansion

1:58:51doesn't allow it.

1:58:53How does that, maybe a question

1:58:55through the building department,

1:58:57how do we approve as a right without approving,

1:59:01without having the parking in place?

1:59:02So someone had four units and they only had two parking spaces.

1:59:05What would stop them from being able to move forward?

1:59:09Would the building department not issue the building permit

1:59:12or would they issue the building permit

1:59:15and then tell the applicant,

1:59:17you've got to go through committee of adjustment

1:59:19to get that third one or else

1:59:20you're not allowed to occupy those units.

1:59:22How does that work?

1:59:26At the time of building permit,

1:59:28if it doesn't comply with zoning,

1:59:29they would not issue the permit.

1:59:32Okay, so that's, I guess that's getting to the heart

1:59:36of one question,

1:59:37it's not necessarily completely related to this,

1:59:40but if a homeowner believes that they have a right

1:59:43to put in a basement apartment

1:59:47and just simply put in a building permit

1:59:49to finish their apartment,

1:59:50like is the city following up with those homeowners

1:59:53to ensure that it's not becoming sort of an illegal duplex

1:59:57or a non-compliant triplex?

2:00:00Are we doing checks on building permits for basement finishes

2:00:05that are being quickly converted into apartments?

2:00:07Because I feel like that's happening.

2:00:10People are getting building permits

2:00:12to finish out their basement

2:00:13and then converting them to apartments.

2:00:15And then the street ends up having to accept all the cars.

2:00:20Can you help me?

2:00:21Does the city do spot checks on building permits like that?

2:00:27Through the mayor to the council.

2:00:29So yes, we do, we do follow up on that.

2:00:31And with our final inspections,

2:00:33we'll know if they've done put in a kitchen, for example,

2:00:35or roughed it in during our inspection process.

2:00:38We also do proactive enforcement on units.

2:00:43If you're, maybe our secrets out,

2:00:45but if you advertise on Kijidi or other sites

2:00:47for our apartment for rent,

2:00:48we often follow up on those.

2:00:50And go through a court process potentially

2:00:53to bring them into compliance.

2:00:54So we do that on an annual basis.

2:00:56Those inspection checks for basement apartments.

2:01:00And we also respond to complaints.

2:01:03If we hear concerns from our resident

2:01:06that something has happened illegally,

2:01:07that's usually our tip off point.

2:01:10Okay.

2:01:12I would feel more comfortable if we were allowed.

2:01:15Like I understand this federal funding associated with this.

2:01:17I would feel more comfortable

2:01:18if we were allowed to put a geographic area in place,

2:01:21say the downtown core or just outside the downtown core

2:01:23for these, for this types of foreplex by right.

2:01:27I'll just leave it with,

2:01:28I'm gonna make a comment here.

2:01:29I know Mr. Mayor,

2:01:30but just leave it with the the issuances of building permits

2:01:35in the absence of confirming that parking is available.

2:01:38I can think of one instance in the East end here.

2:01:41It is destabilizing some of these neighborhoods.

2:01:44And just a concern I have ongoing,

2:01:46how to manage this.

2:01:49Again, I don't wanna turn down federal funding,

2:01:51but it's becoming an increasing concern.

2:01:54Again, I went to visit a constituent the other week

2:01:56and I couldn't find a parking spot anywhere.

2:01:59I ended up parking in front of their cars

2:02:03on their driveway on the road

2:02:05and sort of boxing them in just to have a visit with them.

2:02:08Cause there was literally no parking for three or four blocks

2:02:11around their house.

2:02:12It's that tight.

2:02:13So just express my concern and put it out there.

2:02:18Thank you.

2:02:20Thank you.

2:02:21Councillor Downer, then Councillor Allt.

2:02:25I have an amendment.

2:02:26Do you wanna wait till the questions are done?

2:02:30Oh, okay.

2:02:34Just a comment to Councillor Gibson though first is

2:02:41London only allows four units on connector roads

2:02:44and they'll still be getting their federal funding.

2:02:46So like we do have the room to make any changes we want,

2:02:50but that's not my amendment.

2:02:51So if staff could put up the amendment

2:02:54that I worked with staff on,

2:02:58for me it's about an additional dwelling units

2:03:03must be set, I'd move this and I'd look for a second

2:03:06or must be set back from the exterior side lot line,

2:03:09no less than the exterior side yard setback

2:03:12of the main dwelling unit.

2:03:14And is there a seconder for that?

2:03:19Councillor Busuttil.

2:03:20Okay, Bousatil will second.

2:03:22Yeah.

2:03:23So this sort of came about from a situation

2:03:26that can arise and it's not an often situation

2:03:28like a situation that would happen often,

2:03:31but more in a corner lot where the,

2:03:36while visually the house looks like it's

2:03:40on one side of the road.

2:03:41It's kind of difficult to describe,

2:03:43but an ADU was built in what looks like visually a side yard,

2:03:48which is actually from a zoning perspective was its backyard,

2:03:51but anyway, the house faces the road.

2:03:54Looks like it's in the side yard to anybody on that street,

2:03:57but it's about four meters in front of the face

2:04:01of any house on that street.

2:04:03And I know staff from,

2:04:07when they make recommendations,

2:04:08they're often make houses set back

2:04:11about the average of houses on any street

2:04:14to deal with sort of compatibility and streetscape issues.

2:04:17And I, so this is not a common situation,

2:04:20but where it does happen,

2:04:21it does have I think an impact on the streetscape

2:04:26and then creates an unfavorable impression of ADU.

2:04:29So this is about a situation that exists

2:04:32and this would make this,

2:04:36and in this situation,

2:04:38the ADU could have been built back to the face of the wall

2:04:43as to where the garage is, the garage was slightly forward.

2:04:46So it's, I sent pictures to counselors,

2:04:48so I think they know the situation I'm talking about.

2:04:52Okay, thank you.

2:04:53Is there any questions on this amendment at all?

2:04:57Okay, I have one just for clarity.

2:05:00I would imagine that the applicant in a situation like this

2:05:05could come to committee of adjustments.

2:05:10And ask for the variances required

2:05:12to do what counselor downers motion is trying to stop.

2:05:20And I would imagine that if it came to committee of adjustments

2:05:22that staff would probably be in support.

2:05:27So someone would have to pay a couple thousand dollars

2:05:29to come to committee of adjustments

2:05:31to do what's being allowed.

2:05:34And our staff would support it

2:05:35at committee of adjustments anyways.

2:05:38Am I saying that right?

2:05:41Through the mayor, we do look at every application

2:05:44individually and specifically,

2:05:46but if it met the side yard setback in the zoning bylaw,

2:05:49we would have to consider it and we probably support it

2:05:51given that we've supported it publicly in this document.

2:05:54So yes.

2:05:56So I know the one that counselor downer sent around

2:05:59as a picture, in fact, I've gone and spoken

2:06:01to that neighborhood who was upset about that.

2:06:05I'm not gonna support this because one neighborhood

2:06:09with one being built right now

2:06:12that is causing some issues with one neighborhood

2:06:15is not something that I think we should use

2:06:17as a template across the entire city

2:06:20to reduce the options for more housing options

2:06:23for our community.

2:06:24So I do appreciate counselor downer bringing it forward,

2:06:27but I can't support that to limit those types of choices.

2:06:32Back to the mover, go ahead.

2:06:33You have the final say before we call it over.

2:06:35Just in saying that staff had told me

2:06:37that these situations can be rare,

2:06:39which is what I've said.

2:06:40So it's not removing too many options.

2:06:43And in this case, I saw the lot layout of the site

2:06:48and they could easily have made it,

2:06:50still built an ADU and met the face of the wall.

2:06:53It would not have reduced the option for them at all.

2:06:56They wouldn't have had to have gone

2:06:57to the committee adjustment.

2:07:01Okay.

2:07:02So I will call the vote then on the amendment.

2:07:06Anyone against this, please raise your hand.

2:07:10So Richardson and myself and O'Rourke

2:07:16and Colassen and Guller, I think that's it.

2:07:21So that passes.

2:07:23Thank you.

2:07:24Okay, we'll continue to move on.

2:07:25Councillor Allt.

2:07:27Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

2:07:29Through you two staff.

2:07:31A quick question about ADUs at the present time.

2:07:35How many ADUs do we have

2:07:38that are applied for per year?

2:07:40And what is the character of those?

2:07:42Are they individual structures?

2:07:47Are they basement apartments?

2:07:49What are we looking at when we look at per year,

2:07:52the ADUs that we currently are approving

2:07:54or receiving requests to establish?

2:08:00Through the mayor to the councillor.

2:08:02So every month we publish our building statistics

2:08:05and we do identify the number of ADUs

2:08:07and individual detached units.

2:08:10Last year we had about 260 ADUs in total

2:08:15of which 14 were detached ADUs.

2:08:19So that's about the range we see on an average year.

2:08:23Thank you.

2:08:24And the next question is really simple when I hope.

2:08:28I don't know what we categorize as a parking space.

2:08:32And I'll give you the example.

2:08:34When we moved into our house,

2:08:36we could park seven cars in our driveway.

2:08:39We cut the parking down to be able to hold maybe three.

2:08:44And the reason we did that is we didn't need all that asphalt

2:08:47and we only have one car anyway.

2:08:49What is officially or legally determined

2:08:52to be a parking space?

2:09:04Through you mayor Guthrie to councillor Allt.

2:09:06So on most single detached lots,

2:09:10generally the legal off street parking space

2:09:12is one behind the front wall of the house,

2:09:16which generally leaves one space in the driveway

2:09:21because houses are generally required to be setback

2:09:23six meters throughout the downtown

2:09:27and older built up areas though.

2:09:28It's not always consistent.

2:09:30So some, if they predate several bylaws could have

2:09:36parking just in the front yard.

2:09:38And our house pretty well predates Guelph.

2:09:41But the reason I asked the question is that

2:09:45not all parking spaces,

2:09:46it would appear within the city are the same.

2:09:49And that to me is in some sense is a challenge

2:09:51for us getting our heads around what this particular bylaw

2:09:56will mean for parking spaces throughout the city.

2:10:00It seems to me that it could then technically be possible

2:10:04for even with one parking space for three of four ADUs

2:10:09to park more than three cars.

2:10:11Is that true?

2:10:13One behind the front of the house

2:10:15and one in front of the front of the house.

2:10:21Generally in a single detached lot or a low density zoning,

2:10:26the maximum driveway width in those zones

2:10:32is five or six meters,

2:10:33both of which would allow two cars in the driveway.

2:10:38And then one behind the front wall of the house,

2:10:40which is usually in a garage.

2:10:43Okay, so then it would permit for more than one per unit.

2:10:48Okay, thank you.

2:10:50I have comments at some point, Marguerite.

2:10:52Oh, just do it now.

2:10:54Thank you.

2:10:55I am generally in favor of this,

2:10:57but I do have some concerns.

2:10:59I note that we're requesting that we've identified

2:11:02that we have 11,100 lots, but we could add 3,100.

2:11:07But we are only receiving and approving

2:11:09about 380 use per year.

2:11:12When I do the math on that,

2:11:13we are not going to reach a significant total by 2051.

2:11:19And I'm very, very concerned that what we are doing

2:11:21is establishing a panacea for housing

2:11:23that might not necessarily help us

2:11:26in reaching our housing totals.

2:11:29I'm also very concerned about the law

2:11:30of unintended consequences.

2:11:32And I appreciate what Ms. Craig had said

2:11:35about her principles and values and beliefs.

2:11:38I am not certain that that necessarily holds true

2:11:40for the whole city.

2:11:42And I am concerned that this can become

2:11:46for some people an investment paradise

2:11:49and for others a neighborhood nightmare

2:11:52if we are not careful.

2:11:57Okay, Councillor or Rourke and then Guller.

2:12:02And then I'll go to the screen

2:12:04to my colleagues up on the screen.

2:12:05Thank you, Marguerite,

2:12:06through you I have a question

2:12:07and then a couple of comments.

2:12:10So my question is through you,

2:12:12Marguerite, through the staff.

2:12:15Table 33 in the report, hang on,

2:12:19just want to find my question there.

2:12:21It reads maximum of three spaces

2:12:24for a unit property.

2:12:29And so I'm just wondering,

2:12:30is that really a maximum or is there a minimum?

2:12:33Because what kind of comforts me

2:12:35is that the law is big enough,

2:12:37you can't have a driveway down the side

2:12:39and parking in the rear

2:12:40and it's shown in some of your demonstrations.

2:12:43So is there a maximum of three spaces or a minimum?

2:12:49Through you, Marguerite, to Councillor or Rourke,

2:12:54that chart in its entirety,

2:12:56it's actually intended to say

2:12:59the maximum number required.

2:13:02And so what that was really is that

2:13:04we would require no more than three,

2:13:06but certainly we would permit

2:13:09whatever number of parking spaces

2:13:11the law could accommodate.

2:13:12There are no maximum parking requirements

2:13:14related to four plexes or ADUs.

2:13:19Okay, so if somebody, through you, Marguerite,

2:13:21if somebody wanted to provide more parking,

2:13:25four units, six units, rent out units,

2:13:27do the car share, which is a great idea,

2:13:29then it's really at the discretion of that landowner

2:13:33subject to the city's approval, is that correct?

2:13:37That's correct, it is simply that we would require three.

2:13:40Okay, great, thank you.

2:13:41So through you, Marguerite, just a couple of comments.

2:13:44I actually don't share Councillor Alts' concerns

2:13:47about an investor's paradise, the reason being,

2:13:50I've never seen a staff report that provided proformas,

2:13:54where we could really understand what some of the costs were

2:13:57and what some of the constraints would be.

2:14:00So I'm actually not concerned that we're going to see

2:14:03a ton of these across the city.

2:14:06I do acknowledge Councillor Gibson raised it.

2:14:10Figure eight shows us that frontages vary across the city

2:14:14and that streets with narrower lots

2:14:16have less on-street parking.

2:14:18This is true, it's true in the south end,

2:14:19it's true in the east end, and we need to be aware

2:14:22in some neighborhoods, it is gonna be a lot tighter.

2:14:25What I like about this new version, so clearly,

2:14:29I mean, the depth of the report is quite astonishing.

2:14:33I really feel like staff and the consultants

2:14:35have been listening.

2:14:37I really like, you know, I was never comfortable

2:14:40with three units as of right in a townhouse, right?

2:14:45So that makes me uncomfortable.

2:14:48And so these four units are strictly on R1 and R2 lots.

2:14:53I like that you remove the restrictions

2:14:55for internal connections between units

2:14:58because we see it in Montreal all the time,

2:15:00that you've got stairs going down to a basement apartment

2:15:02and stairs going up to the main floor.

2:15:05And so I think that creates some flexibility.

2:15:08I like that you've simplified the requirements for ADUs

2:15:11to be smaller than principal dwelling.

2:15:12I have heard that from folks who wanna convert

2:15:14their own building to add some units.

2:15:18So I think we're taking out a lot of the challenges

2:15:21that folks have had.

2:15:23I appreciate that you increase the side yard separation

2:15:25for second story units for neighborhood privacy.

2:15:28I've heard that a lot in my ward

2:15:30where people are concerned about that.

2:15:32And I really like the note on page 79

2:15:34of the final report because it ties into the affordability

2:15:37piece we're gonna discuss later.

2:15:38And it says to support simplification on ownership models

2:15:42to encourage co-ops and small condominiums.

2:15:45So I really think that the model is a good one.

2:15:51I think that would be fairly limited in the uptake

2:15:54given the lots available and also the performance

2:15:57that were provided.

2:15:58And I just wanna thank staff for really a stellar report.

2:16:03Thanks.

2:16:05Thanks.

2:16:06Again, it's being aware of time everybody,

2:16:07Gowler and then Koran.

2:16:10Thank you through your worship.

2:16:11I'll say Ditto to Councillor Oroch's comments.

2:16:15I do have one question for staff.

2:16:18A lot of the concerns that I hear from my constituents

2:16:21are around the availability of parking.

2:16:24Not directly tied to this,

2:16:26but I believe are we doing an on street parking review

2:16:29this year if I could just have a confirmation

2:16:31that that is happening?

2:16:33To the council we're doing one in 2025.

2:16:37Not yet.

2:16:37Yes, yes, this coming in.

2:16:39Yes, okay, thank you for that.

2:16:41And I am hopeful that that will go a long way

2:16:43to address many of the issues that we're having.

2:16:47And just to confirm semi-detached maximum of three units.

2:16:53Is that correct?

2:16:56Okay, okay, thank you for that.

2:16:58And thank you, Councillor Oroch for your eloquence.

2:17:01Koran and then Gibson.

2:17:04Yes, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:17:05I Ditto to Councillor Goller,

2:17:07Ditto to Councillor Oroch,

2:17:10Ditto to Councillor Downer.

2:17:12I do have an amendment because I do share

2:17:14all of these parking concerns.

2:17:16We're in an ideal world.

2:17:19We could absolutely minimize the amount of parking

2:17:22for all forms of housing.

2:17:25Fully functioning transit system, active transportation,

2:17:28major transit corridors.

2:17:30That's what we're aspiring to, but we're not there yet.

2:17:32And I think our experience has shown

2:17:34in the testimonies today that on-street parking

2:17:37and overflow parking when we don't build enough

2:17:40is significantly challenging our neighbourhood.

2:17:43So I do have proposed amendment that takes us back

2:17:47to our existing regulations with respect to accessory units.

2:17:52And in table 5.3, and I apologize to planning staff

2:17:56that I just kind of sprung this on you

2:17:58at 2.07 this afternoon.

2:18:01But I do feel strongly we need to have that minimum

2:18:06of one parking space per dwelling unit

2:18:12that is consistent with our current policy

2:18:13rather than amending it for one less space.

2:18:17Until such time as we can amend this at a later date,

2:18:21but we heard from our staff that we could potentially

2:18:24at the current parking regulations have 11,000 units

2:18:28and in excess of 14,000 if we went to one less space.

2:18:32I think we need to focus on the 11,000 lots

2:18:36and see how that goes.

2:18:38I don't think we have to go all in

2:18:39in this zoning amendment.

2:18:41I think we can monitor how much parking demand

2:18:45is being taken up on the sites

2:18:48that are approved for accessory units.

2:18:51As we move forward, if you build four parking spaces

2:18:56and you don't need one,

2:18:58it can be converted at a later zoning amendment.

2:19:02That space can be converted to a garden shed

2:19:05or a bicycle parking or a raised garden bed.

2:19:09It can be converted to another use.

2:19:10But if we don't build sufficient parking right up front,

2:19:14we will never get it back.

2:19:16And I think we're seeing the problems

2:19:19that are associated with that.

2:19:21So I do have a parking amendment.

2:19:22Not sure who wants to second it,

2:19:24but we'll put it on the floor.

2:19:26Yes, Councillor Allt will.

2:19:29Okay, are there any questions on this?

2:19:32Okay, I've got one.

2:19:34Oh, sorry, Councillor Gibson, go ahead.

2:19:40Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

2:19:40I just wanted to hear from staff.

2:19:42I believe I heard the calculation right, the expectation.

2:19:45So by my math, we're already adding,

2:19:46we're adding 380 use a year in the city.

2:19:50By my math by 2050, that's over 7,000 units

2:19:53in our residential areas being added.

2:19:56Just simply by people allowed to build 80 use.

2:19:59What would this mean for limiting 80 use across the city?

2:20:05I think I heard, did I hear a number of 3,100

2:20:07or 3,000 less units available?

2:20:09Is that what staff are predicting?

2:20:29Great, through you, Marga three.

2:20:32We're just gonna have our consultants actually answer

2:20:33that question as they have some of the analysis

2:20:35numbers to answer Councillor Gibson.

2:20:38Answer Councillor Gibson.

2:20:42Yes, yes, I just wanted to confirm that the increase

2:20:45with removing one parking would go from 11,100

2:20:50to 14,250.

2:20:53So I think you have the math right there.

2:20:56Okay.

2:21:01Sorry, do you still have the floor?

2:21:03I'll pose one more question and it all depends

2:21:06on how this vote goes.

2:21:09Maybe staff can work on this in the background.

2:21:10Just be ready for a question around what happens

2:21:12if we limited parking, did this motion

2:21:16but only included like a feeder streets.

2:21:19As Councillor Downer had mentioned,

2:21:20collector streets and sort of preserve the more,

2:21:26just preserve the more stable suburban areas.

2:21:30Thank you.

2:21:32That's got nothing to do with this vote.

2:21:34So don't worry about it.

2:21:35If this fails, I'll ask that question.

2:21:40Okay, thank you.

2:21:41So my question here is we need clarity right now

2:21:47on the agreement that we spent months on

2:21:52in negotiating with the federal government.

2:21:56And so the agreement, we've already heard one Councillor

2:22:00indicate, oh, look what London did.

2:22:02Maybe we could do that too.

2:22:03I don't think it's that easy folks.

2:22:05I don't think it's that easy at all.

2:22:07Council needs to understand that we made a Guelph contract

2:22:11specific to Guelph with the federal government.

2:22:15And we've heard our staff indicate

2:22:17that it has to be city wide.

2:22:19So this motion that's been tabled indicates only

2:22:21for the downtown core.

2:22:23So Council needs some clarity here

2:22:25before we start to contemplate this particular motion

2:22:29that what did we actually negotiate

2:22:33with the federal government for $21.4 million

2:22:37to try to unlock more housing in our city

2:22:40and is it easily negotiated on the fly here?

2:22:46So to you, Mayor Guthrie, just before I answer that,

2:22:50I did just want to mention that London is not,

2:22:54is city wide in terms of their permissions for four units.

2:22:57It is not just to collectors.

2:23:01So it is consistent with not only what we're proposing

2:23:05here today, but also other municipalities

2:23:08that have half funding as well.

2:23:12In terms of our agreement with the federal government,

2:23:14we have indicated across the city, which is city wide.

2:23:19Okay, so there's the clarity.

2:23:21Can we just have the motion back up on the screen?

2:23:24And I see the mover wanting to jump in.

2:23:26I recognize you, Councillor Caron.

2:23:29But let's just put that back up.

2:23:31So it's that proposed, the table be amended

2:23:34to require one off street parking space per unit

2:23:38and all zones except downtown zones.

2:23:40Would you staff consider this to be not in alignment

2:23:48with the contract that we made with the federal government

2:23:51because it's not city wide?

2:24:02Through Mayor Guthrie, I think we'd have to have

2:24:04a quick conversation with our CMHC rep

2:24:06to confirm their thoughts on this particular amendment.

2:24:11Okay, so we'll go back to some, thank you for,

2:24:14I think that was important to at least get some clarity,

2:24:16especially around London.

2:24:18So we're gonna go back to questions.

2:24:20And so Councillor Caron, do you want me to come back

2:24:24to you last as the mover or do you have a question?

2:24:27Well, I am willing to move in the exclusion

2:24:30of downtown zones.

2:24:31That was a cut and paste from the existing zoning regulations.

2:24:35So I expected that that's what staff were recommending.

2:24:41And if they're not recommending an exclusion

2:24:44of the downtown, then I'll remove that

2:24:46and just end it at one parking space per dwelling unit period.

2:24:50I'm happy with that.

2:24:51I thought that I was sorry.

2:24:53Sorry, we don't allow that in here.

2:24:54Okay, thank you.

2:24:56So if we could just have staff respond

2:24:58to Councillor Caron's point of clarification.

2:25:04In terms of the parking requirements,

2:25:06there is no required parking downtown.

2:25:09So that part of the motion is appropriate.

2:25:13So it's because the provincial government

2:25:15came in and said there's no parking minimums

2:25:17in the downtown.

2:25:18That's right.

2:25:19Okay, thank you, Councillor Caron.

2:25:21And so I saw a couple of hands go up over here.

2:25:24And again, just being aware of time.

2:25:25Okay, Councillor Goller and then Claeson.

2:25:28Thank you, Chair Worship.

2:25:29To staff, just to understand you said

2:25:32that you would have to check with the rep from the CMHC.

2:25:37So does that mean that if we make a decision

2:25:39we could be putting the half funding at risk

2:25:41and then we'd have to pay it back

2:25:42because we're not reducing the parking

2:25:44like we said we would?

2:26:01Through America, through Councillor Goller.

2:26:04Yes, we could potentially be putting our funding in jeopardy.

2:26:08Again, we'd have to confirm with our CMHC rep.

2:26:10And it could also place our zoning bylaw amendment

2:26:16be appealed as well, which could further jeopardize

2:26:21the ability to be eligible for the upcoming $6 billion

2:26:26Canada Infrastructure Housing Fund as well.

2:26:29Okay, so given this information,

2:26:32I would like to ask whether the mover would like

2:26:35to withdraw it.

2:26:36If not, could we go into close to speak with legal

2:26:39about the implications of making this decision?

2:26:50I think we'll not pose a question to the mover.

2:26:54I mean, the mover heard you, but let's just keep moving

2:26:56through the amendment that's on the floor.

2:26:59Your worship, I'm concerned that we vote on it

2:27:01and it passes it will have legal consequences.

2:27:05Maybe, but process wise, we do have a legitimate

2:27:10amendment on the floor.

2:27:11So as the chair, I just want to continue to move forward on it.

2:27:14It would be up to each of us hearing from our staff

2:27:17to still determine how we would vote based on the answers

2:27:20we heard from our staff.

2:27:21Yeah, could we move into close?

2:27:23I want to understand the cost of the city.

2:27:25No, I don't think.

2:27:27If you really want to move a motion to move into close,

2:27:30then you'd have to talk to the clerks

2:27:33and get the right section of section 239

2:27:35of the municipal act and figure that out if you want to.

2:27:38But I don't think we need to, Councillor Goward,

2:27:40only because I mean, you asked a very direct question

2:27:43and we heard a very direct answer back from our staff

2:27:46that indicated what the answer was, right?

2:27:48So let's see who's on my list next.

2:27:52That would be Klassen and then comment from O'Rourke.

2:27:59Yes, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor,

2:28:01to either the mover or staff.

2:28:04I just want to understand the meaning here

2:28:08of the amendment.

2:28:11When I was in university, I visited a friend of mine.

2:28:14She lived in a basement apartment.

2:28:17There was one parking spot for the upper unit.

2:28:19It was a family of four and her and her partner

2:28:22lived in the basement unit.

2:28:25They did not have parking.

2:28:26It was fine.

2:28:28They walked to school or took the bus.

2:28:31So my question is, does this now exclude,

2:28:35so if the dwelling unit was in the basement,

2:28:38would that unit also, would that require

2:28:41an off street parking space?

2:28:50Just thinking about a single family home

2:28:53who's got a basement apartment in,

2:28:55which wants to put in a basement apartment,

2:28:57is the idea that you would have to have a parking spot

2:29:00for that unit according to this amendment.

2:29:11As the amendment reposes,

2:29:17each dwelling unit, so each,

2:29:19so the main unit, any, you,

2:29:22would require parking in that case.

2:29:26Okay, so in that case,

2:29:27I don't think I can support the amendment.

2:29:28I think regular families often have a basement unit,

2:29:33and I don't think that they necessarily

2:29:35require that parking spot.

2:29:38So as it is, I don't think I'm gonna support it.

2:29:41Okay, thank you.

2:29:42A Rourke, then yeah, I just see you, Karan.

2:29:45I'm gonna do a Rourke, Kate, Gibson, Karan.

2:29:49Thanks, Mayor Guthrie.

2:29:50Just a question for clarification,

2:29:51and then I have a couple comments.

2:29:53So currently, anyone who's gonna add an ADU

2:29:56anywhere in the city, I'm gonna guess outside of downtown,

2:30:00has to provide one parking space.

2:30:02So that's still true, right?

2:30:04Through you, Mayor Guthrie.

2:30:05Sorry.

2:30:06That's correct, yes.

2:30:07Okay.

2:30:08And so through you, Mayor Guthrie, to staff,

2:30:10the only time you would not have to provide

2:30:14one parking space per unit is if you were building

2:30:18four units on a property.

2:30:20Is that correct?

2:30:27How the regulation reads is that

2:30:30when it comes to a four-plex,

2:30:33so four apartment units in one dwelling,

2:30:39three spaces would be required.

2:30:42For ADUs, it depends on the number.

2:30:45So the main dwelling would require the parking space.

2:30:50The first ADU would not,

2:30:53but the second and third would each require a parking space.

2:30:58So there is relief with the first ADU.

2:31:03So through you, Mayor Guthrie, to staff,

2:31:05just to be crystal clear.

2:31:07If I add a basement apartment in my home right now,

2:31:11I have to provide a parking spot, right?

2:31:16That's correct, yes.

2:31:18If I add an ADU in my yard that is just one unit,

2:31:23I also have to provide a parking spot, right?

2:31:27That's correct, yes.

2:31:28Okay.

2:31:29If I add a second story and another unit back there,

2:31:33I now have four units,

2:31:35I don't have to provide a fourth parking spot, right?

2:31:38So you only get that sort of a wave around the parking spot

2:31:41if you build four units.

2:31:43My apologies, I was basing it on the existing regulations.

2:31:48So the existing regulations currently today

2:31:53are one space per unit.

2:31:57The proposed that we're creating

2:32:01would be one space for the main,

2:32:05no space for the second unit or the first ADU,

2:32:11and then one space for each subsequent one.

2:32:14So it is a matter of the order that they come in

2:32:18as proposed.

2:32:19Okay.

2:32:20The idea is to give relief immediately

2:32:22to the first accessory unit.

2:32:25It doesn't require a space.

2:32:27But if you add more than one,

2:32:29then you do need extra spaces.

2:32:32Okay.

2:32:33I apologize, because I'm confused.

2:32:36I thought it was a build three parking spaces

2:32:39and you get the fourth, sort of,

2:32:41you get a buy on the fourth.

2:32:42This applied, sort of the waiver on the parking spot

2:32:45applied only to the four units as of right.

2:32:50So are you telling me, no,

2:32:52this now applies to any ADU,

2:32:56no longer has to provide a parking spot?

2:33:04So ultimately if you're building four,

2:33:08three spaces would be required in either situation.

2:33:11But if you're only building one,

2:33:14you would only need to spot for the main unit

2:33:16and not for the first accessory unit.

2:33:19If you were doing one main unit with two accessory,

2:33:23you would require one additional spot.

2:33:26And if you were doing one main and three accessory,

2:33:32you would require two additional spaces.

2:33:35So the math ends up the same at the end,

2:33:37but the difference is the very first accessory unit

2:33:41doesn't need the spot.

2:33:43Okay.

2:33:43Okay.

2:33:45All right, thank you.

2:33:46I got three.

2:33:46So my comment is everybody who knows me knows

2:33:50I've been a complete fierce advocate for parking

2:33:54in my entire first term of council for the past six years.

2:33:57I worked two years on the comprehensive zoning bylaw

2:33:59to preserve parking in apartment buildings,

2:34:02particularly in intensification zones.

2:34:05I see the overflow parking.

2:34:08My concern is we're really laser focused

2:34:10on what will be only really a few spots

2:34:15when the scale of reducing for a big apartment building

2:34:18to a 0.8 versus a one per unit.

2:34:21I mean, that's a much larger scale.

2:34:25So I actually don't think the impact here,

2:34:27especially with the performance

2:34:29and all the projections in the reports,

2:34:30I don't think that waiver of the parking spot

2:34:33will be particularly significant.

2:34:37And really if there are units where somebody

2:34:39may not need a vehicle,

2:34:41it's probably somebody who's in a garden suite.

2:34:44I lived in a basement apartment in Toronto

2:34:45and walked the subway.

2:34:48And so on that basis, I've been a huge advocate for parking,

2:34:52will continue to be a huge advocate for parking,

2:34:55but I can't condone removing 3,100 units

2:34:58from consideration on the whole.

2:35:02And I can't risk the city losing $21.4 million

2:35:07of investment in housing,

2:35:09which has been our number one topic for at least two years,

2:35:12and potentially infrastructure funding on top of that.

2:35:15So I can't support the motion.

2:35:18Thank you.

2:35:19Kate, please, and then Gibson.

2:35:24You question to staff.

2:35:26I know that we recently were talking about

2:35:28how to incent people to build accessible accessory units.

2:35:35And I know that the province doesn't mandate at this level

2:35:41that there be accessible parking spots.

2:35:44So I just kind of wanted to make a comment

2:35:47that when the parking review happens

2:35:51that accessible on street parking

2:35:54might wanna be something that we take a look at

2:35:56because that's gonna be a gap within the ecosystem.

2:36:02Thanks.

2:36:05Great, thank you.

2:36:06A couple of staff members, heads nodded there.

2:36:08Councillor Caton just to relay that back to you.

2:36:11So that's good.

2:36:12Gibson and then Koran.

2:36:15Thank you.

2:36:16I'll just state that my concerns are,

2:36:21my concerns stand when it comes to townhouses

2:36:23and on street towns,

2:36:24but it's not necessarily what we're talking about here.

2:36:27We're talking about single detached homes.

2:36:28So given the agreement and given the funding

2:36:33that's associated with it,

2:36:34again, I'm increasing the uncomfortable,

2:36:36but I won't be supporting this motion.

2:36:38I'll be supporting the main motion of staff.

2:36:43Okay, and to the mover, Councillor Caron.

2:36:46Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor.

2:36:47I do appreciate all the comments.

2:36:49I mean, I've looked at the agreement

2:36:50and one of the things that we're allowed to do

2:36:53is regulate certain things like setbacks and parking.

2:36:56That's allowed.

2:36:59And we have seen the effects of inadequate parking

2:37:02in our residential areas.

2:37:05I think it's worth reminding that

2:37:08this zoning regulation is new.

2:37:11Allowing the four plexes and the additional ADUs,

2:37:16it's new.

2:37:17So we can change it at any time.

2:37:20If two years from now,

2:37:21we find that parking's not an issue, we can change it.

2:37:26But I would remind Council

2:37:27that one of the other things that's changed

2:37:29in the landscape in the last year

2:37:31is there's no longer a cap,

2:37:33and correct me if I'm wrong, staff.

2:37:35I am willing to be corrected.

2:37:37The cap on the number of bedrooms has changed,

2:37:41which means it used to be that a basement apartment

2:37:43was limited to two bedrooms.

2:37:45That's no longer the case.

2:37:47That the cap on bedrooms has been eliminated.

2:37:49So we could end up,

2:37:51and we know that the rental by bedroom

2:37:55is becoming more of a model than rental by unit.

2:38:00You could have 10 to 12 rental bedrooms per property.

2:38:05If the accessory units have three bedrooms per unit.

2:38:10So when you have 10 to 12 multi-generational families

2:38:14or per bedroom rentals per property,

2:38:17we're gonna end up with a parking problem.

2:38:18So again, I'll keep the amendment on the floor

2:38:21because I do think we're going to have

2:38:23an overflow parking problem

2:38:24if we have an uptake even with the 11,000 units

2:38:28that can accommodate

2:38:31without the one parking spot per dwelling unit.

2:38:35So we'll bring it to a vote and we'll let council decide.

2:38:40Great, thank you councillor.

2:38:41So I'll wrap it up with my,

2:38:44from the hip comments before we vote.

2:38:47So definitely not supporting this.

2:38:51We're putting, we've heard,

2:38:54we've literally heard our staff say

2:38:55that we're putting something at risk.

2:38:58Okay, so we're putting the funding at risk.

2:39:00We're putting potential future funding at risk.

2:39:03Number six in the housing accelerator fund contract

2:39:06said that we had to do four units as of right,

2:39:08but number eight also said

2:39:10we needed to look at reduction of parking.

2:39:14We have also heard our comparators,

2:39:17Waterloo, Kitchener, Hamilton

2:39:19are all doing exactly what is being proposed here.

2:39:24We are in a housing crisis

2:39:25and I continue to hear people say it,

2:39:28but then when the options

2:39:29to actually unlock more housing are before us,

2:39:33we're not taking the stance to actually do it.

2:39:35We're not implementing those things that need to be done

2:39:40to try to bring about choice and affordability

2:39:43and more housing units to our city.

2:39:46And we would be losing out

2:39:47on over 3,000 potential units,

2:39:50choice for people to live somewhere.

2:39:54I will not hesitate to say no to that.

2:39:57That's my opinion because I do not want

2:40:02to be not only putting things at risk,

2:40:04but also reducing choice within our community

2:40:09and more housing options for so many people.

2:40:12So I'll call the vote.

2:40:15I have a point of privilege, Mr. Mayor, point of privilege.

2:40:19You indicated that our, yeah, thank you.

2:40:22And with all due respect,

2:40:23you indicated that our staff told us

2:40:25we would be putting our federal funding at risk.

2:40:28That is not what I heard staff say.

2:40:30I heard staff said they didn't know.

2:40:33So I think that needs to be clarified

2:40:35because my amendment is being framed

2:40:38as something that's putting our city at risk

2:40:40and that is not the case.

2:40:43I'm happy to clarify.

2:40:44And if I misinterpreted that,

2:40:46then you know I'll own it in a heartbeat.

2:40:48That's not a problem.

2:40:50I heard one of these lovely staff members down here

2:40:55answer Councillor Goller.

2:40:57To Councillor Goller's question, are we putting at risk?

2:41:00I think it was Kushla or it might have been Krista,

2:41:02literally said the answer is yes.

2:41:05So if I'm wrong, that's fine.

2:41:07I maybe I misinterpreted that.

2:41:09So can we get clarity on that just before we move forward?

2:41:22Mayor Guthrie, I believe I did say

2:41:25that we would need to clarify with CMHC as well.

2:41:30But I did say there is the potential,

2:41:33but clarity is still required.

2:41:35Okay, then I take that back.

2:41:37Councillor Caron, thank you for calling me out on it.

2:41:39I appreciate it.

2:41:41Can I just also speak?

2:41:45I would say that I through to you Mayor Guthrie,

2:41:49I'm concerned with the risk on this in the sense of

2:41:53if it got appealed and that was the comment by staff

2:41:57is that while the motion itself is, I would say,

2:42:02I agree that the agreement allows for the ability

2:42:08to adjust parking and that itself would not put at risk

2:42:12is that just the risk of that being appealed

2:42:15just given the consultation that was done

2:42:18and that in itself then delaying this bylaw

2:42:23is where for the risk for me comes in.

2:42:26And then that bylaw under appeal then becoming the,

2:42:30a bit of a risk on the federal funding,

2:42:32the additional federal funding opportunity.

2:42:34So I just wanted to state that before the vote.

2:42:36Okay, thank you to our CAO.

2:42:39And so my final comment then before the vote would be this,

2:42:41I'm gonna flip what my colleague Councillor Caron said about,

2:42:45we can look at something in a couple of years,

2:42:47we can measure and get some metrics.

2:42:49I would flip that.

2:42:50I would say, no, let's do what I believe would be

2:42:53the right thing to do,

2:42:54which is not to support this amendment.

2:42:56And let's then dip our toe in the water to see how it works

2:43:00with the 15 or whatever 20 tops per year that is happening.

2:43:05And let us determine the metrics and the data

2:43:08on that side of the equation

2:43:10instead of actually going the other way

2:43:12as being proposed by the mover.

2:43:13So to my colleague, I really do think we should not support

2:43:18this and we'll see how the vote lands.

2:43:20So I'll call the vote.

2:43:21So those not in favor of the amendment,

2:43:24please raise your hand.

2:43:29Okay, so Guthrie, Gibson, Chiu, Billings and Katon,

2:43:36and Gawler and Clausson and O'Rourke and Boussatill

2:43:41and Richardson, so that's 10.

2:43:43Okay, thank you though, Councillor Caron.

2:43:46Good debate, good discussion,

2:43:47got some clarity on some things, so fair enough, thank you.

2:43:52Okay, we're gonna go back to the main motion then.

2:43:56As amended, I would call it because Councillor

2:43:59Downer's motion passed.

2:44:01Is there anything further before I call the vote?

2:44:05Okay, I will call the vote then on the main motion

2:44:08as amended, is anyone against?

2:44:12That is unanimous, thank you very much

2:44:14to our staff, consultants and the public

2:44:16and the engagement on this, we appreciate it.

2:44:19And I'm very excited to vote for you

2:44:22and it says of right happening across our city, that's great.

2:44:26What time is here?

2:44:27We are going to now, let's see,

2:44:29we're gonna take, let me just have a moment

2:44:31to confer with the clerks for a moment.

2:45:12Okay, so this is what we're gonna do everybody.

2:45:16If nobody from council asks anybody any questions

2:45:20of the delegates, which is rare,

2:45:23and every delegate takes 10 minutes,

2:45:26we have like two and a half hours of delegates.

2:45:29So we appreciate everyone that signed up,

2:45:33whoever, from an agenda management point of view.

2:45:38I think we're gonna take a break,

2:45:39that makes sense, everyone, all of us can get up

2:45:41and just walk around and get the blood flowing a little bit.

2:45:45So let's do that, it's 5.37.

2:45:49I would suggest that we take a 10 minute break right now

2:45:54and then come back and we will start into the delegations.

2:46:01And just as a heads up,

2:46:02I might as well just say it right now,

2:46:04just so that if they're in the room.

2:46:08I will go to, let's see here,

2:46:12I will go to like, how about,

2:46:16about halfway through there.

2:46:18So Morgan Dandy is usually here.

2:46:21Morgan, are you here?

2:46:23Oh, I see your hand.

2:46:25Okay, I'm gonna do the delegation list to Morgan

2:46:28and then we're gonna probably do another 20 minute break.

2:46:32And then we'll continue with the rest.

2:46:33I just wanna give everyone that heads up,

2:46:35especially if you are on the list

2:46:37and you are after Morgan.

2:46:38Okay, so let's take a 10 minute break right now

2:46:42and we will see everyone back here in that 10 minutes.

2:46:45Okay, thank you.

2:55:03Okay, everyone, we're gonna call the meeting back to order.

2:55:32Okay, okay, everyone, if everyone could take a seat for me,

2:55:39I'd appreciate it.

2:55:42I do have a gavel.

2:56:07Hey everyone, everyone in the gallery,

2:56:10everyone in the gallery,

2:56:12if I could please ask you to sit down.

2:56:14We've got a long agenda item

2:56:15and that's the third time I've had to ask,

2:56:18like my parents just don't let me get,

2:56:20don't make me count to three.

2:56:23Yeah, so yeah, if you could please take a seat,

2:56:26that would be great.

2:56:28Linda, a counselor, Bousatel has handed me the gavel.

2:56:34I've used it once in 10 years.

2:56:36So don't, I call it the Thor hammer.

2:56:39Don't let me have to use that, okay?

2:56:41I'll put it here.

2:56:42I haven't seen that in a long time.

2:56:44The reason why I haven't seen that in a long time

2:56:46is because we've never had to use it.

2:56:47It's been that good in here.

2:56:48So let's keep it that way.

2:56:51Let's continue on.

2:56:52We are now to the final recommended