Committee of the Whole

5:37Good afternoon everybody. It's Wednesday, September the 4th, 2024. It's 1 30 and welcome to our committee of the whole meeting.

5:46And right off the top, just calling the meeting officially to order here. I just want to mention that Councillor Alton Councillor Alton screen. Okay, so we're good there.

5:55And then Councillor Caron as also just mentioned, they're on their way. Okay, so those are the what I have right now. If there's anybody else online,

6:04if you could just make sure that you put your video on for us just so we can make sure it's noted in the minutes and that we have enough for quorum and such. Okay, perfect.

6:14Thank you. And with that, any disclosure, pecuniary interest, any general nature thereof for the closed item that we're about to consider?

6:24Hearing and seeing none. On the open agenda, it's titled as Federal Grant Agreement 2024-364. And this is under Section

6:342392F and H of the Municipal Act regarding advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege,

6:40including communications necessary for that purpose and information explicitly supplied in confidence

6:46to the municipality or local board by Canada, a province or territory or a crown agency of any of them.

6:55Who would like to help me by moving that one?

6:58Councillor Quasen and Alt will second that. And is there anything further on moving into closed under that item?

7:05Nothing more. I'll take the vote. Is anyone against moving into closed on that?

7:09Nobody. That's unanimous. So for those joining us right now, we are going to have a

7:14closed meeting of council on this issue just for a moment. And as normal when we're done, I'll come out.

7:19I'll do a high level summary and then we'll continue on with the open agenda. So just bear with us. We'll be right back. Thank you.

22:30Thanks everybody. We're just, as it's described on the open agenda, the open session

22:37starts at two o'clock. So we're just going to take that 10 minutes and

22:42we'll start everything back up. I'll do my summary at two o'clock. Okay. Thank you.

35:19Okay everybody, it's two o'clock. So I'm going to call the open session to order and right before we get right into that.

35:27I'm just going to give the closed meeting a high level summary. So we did meet in closed session just about half an hour or so ago

35:36under what's

35:38presented on the open agenda as federal grant agreement.

35:42And we received information in regards to that opportunity and we gave direction

35:49to our staff in regards to that opportunity. So

35:52that was all we, that was all that we did in there. So more on that will certainly come later.

35:59But that's all that was done today. So with that, if you can, if you're able, please

36:06stand as we recognize our national anthem to kick things off.

36:09Great. Thank you. And just a moment of silent reflection as we continue. Great. Thank you.

37:56And for our indigenous territorial acknowledgement, as we gather, let us take time to reflect on the privilege to live and work here in Guelph, a city that's built

38:05over rich indigenous histories. We're guests here. We should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today and the generations to come.

38:15For actions today can move us towards reconciliation. We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

38:23This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many people's over time, but more specifically the Anwarak and the Hohenosaunee.

38:33This land is held as the treaty lands and the territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation.

38:40Guelph flies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River.

38:49Many First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island, call Guelph home today.

38:56And with that, is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items in front of us on the open agenda?

39:06Hearing and seeing none. As I described before, we went into closed session. Councillor Caron is just running a little bit late.

39:16As a little bit of regrets just for being late, but we'll probably be joining us really soon.

39:24As we normally do, we kick off with some staff recognitions. There's several of them because our staff are awesome.

39:30That's why there's several of them. I thought I would get a laugh there, but apparently I worked all day on that one.

39:37Thank you for laughing at me now. I appreciate that.

39:40I'm going to kick things over to Chair O'Rourke because all of these good news stories fall under her department.

39:49And so, Chair O'Rourke, over to you. Thank you.

39:54Thank you, Marigot 3, through you to all these fine people in the gallery and who are tuning in this afternoon.

40:01So on behalf of Council, it's my pleasure to recognize the following city staff on their recent achievements.

40:07So buckle up because there's a lot of achievements.

40:10First up, I'd like to congratulate Madeline Myhill, Waste Program Coordinator who's currently on parental leave,

40:17Liana Dandrea, Supervisor Environmental Programs and Heather Yates, Manager Compliance Programs and Performance,

40:24recipients of the 2024 Promotion and Education Bronze Award in recognition of its Behavioral Insights Gold Star Pilot Program

40:32from the Municipal Waste Association's Annual Innovation Awards Program. So let me tell you about that.

40:39The pilot program built on the city's Established Curbside Waste Inspection Program with Stacking

40:44Behavioral Insights concepts, specifically small scale rewards for diverting waste appropriately,

40:50being a good sort. Over a two month period, the pilot tested treatments that included a Gold Star

40:55sticker to recognize good sorters and Gold Star sticker with an extra incentive of a prize draw

41:00on 1200 households. Communication material were also updated and incorporated concepts like simplification, salience and framing.

41:08The final element of the program was a community meal.

41:11This event was developed through discussion with staff working with the Smart Cities Initiative and with the Behavioral Insights Team.

41:18Hosting a community event allowed us to introduce another Behavioral Insights concept,

41:23reciprocity and diverted food with minor imperfections, transforming it into a community meal by community feud.

41:30The Municipal Waste Association's Awards celebrate creativity and ingenuity of municipal waste practitioners, promotion and education programs.

41:39So congratulations Madeline, Liana and Heather on this well-deserved award.

41:49We'll do all the photos at the end, but we can clap in between.

41:53Okay, today we're also recognizing the team that worked on the Paisley Pumping Station Upgrades Infrastructure Renewal Project.

42:00Guys, you need like catch your titles. They're long.

42:03City staff Dave Morrison, lead hand water treatment Nathan Sinyowski, supervisor water treatment operations,

42:12Matt Bender, manager water operations, Emily Stahl, manager technical services water services,

42:18Wayne Galleher, division manager water services and Ryan Costello,

42:23SCADA, supervisor together with SEMA Plus were awarded a 2024 Gold Medal of Merit

42:29in the water and wastewater category from the Grand River Chapter of ASEC Ontario

42:35for exhibiting engineering excellence, improving or enhancing the quality of community life

42:41and supporting sustainable growth through ingenuity and creativity in design and construction on the project.

42:48The upgrades almost double the capacity of the Pumping Station and allow much needed residential development within the city to proceed.

42:56The construction and commissioning of the upgrades took place without any interruption to services

43:01and users or any increase in the footprint of the facility. It's amazing.

43:06Upgrades to the Paisley Pumping Station are an important part of the city's long-term water supply plan.

43:11Congratulations to you all. Dave, Nathan, Matt, Emily, Wayne and Ryan on this great work.

43:17Award recognition and demonstrating amazing collaboration.

43:28Next, we'll recognize staff who have obtained or in the final processes of review of their municipal

43:33infrastructure inspectors designation from the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists.

43:40Just one part of the importance of ongoing education.

43:44Kyle Gibson, manager technical services, engineering and transportation services.

43:49Bob Richardson, construction inspector, engineering and transportation services.

43:54So Bob couldn't be here today and I've been asked to tell you why.

43:58He's out on York Road doing the final water connections and so needed to be there to supervise that.

44:04Wanted to be here, but these are our folks out there doing the work. We appreciate it.

44:11Steven Schengler, construction inspector, engineer and transportation services.

44:16Marco Derek, construction contract administrator, engineering and transportation services.

44:21Sammy Mohammed, construction contract administrator, engineering and transportation services.

44:26Adam Wilczak, manager technical services, wastewater services.

44:30Palak Patel, project manager, wastewater services.

44:34Sumant Patel, manager operations wastewater services.

44:37So last October, the city was approached by our engineering technologists partners at the OACETT

44:45to take part in their new municipal infrastructure inspector and municipal

44:49infrastructure contract administrator pilot program, which aims to boost public trust and

44:54build confidence in OACETT members and decrease post construction disruption to citizens

45:00and businesses as infrastructure is verified to be correctly installed

45:04and commissioned by certified staff. Sounds like a good thing.

45:08City staff were required to review documents on the proposed requirements for the two designations,

45:12comment on the proposals and then participate in a forum to discuss the comments provided.

45:17At the end of the pilot, city staff were encouraged to apply for their designation

45:21based on the finalized criteria. The municipal infrastructure inspector designation

45:26is now open to all members of OACETT. For application and the municipal infrastructure

45:32contract administrator designation is still being finalized with a mandatory course proposed to

45:37be offered later in 2024. As newer city staff come on board and grow with the organization,

45:43they will be encouraged to continue to work towards obtaining these new designations as well.

45:49Congratulations again on this achievement in furthering your practice.

45:53Kyle, Bob, Steven, Marco, Sammy, Adam, Palak and Sumont.

46:03Okay. Next and finally, it's with great pleasure that we recognize city staff Monica Silva,

46:09manager corporate asset management, Terry Gaiman, general manager, engineering and transportation

46:14services, Heather Yates, manager, compliance programs and performance, Kevin Nelson, corporate

46:20asset management advisor, Nectar, Tampacopoulos, general manager environmental services together

46:26with their colleagues from Matrix Solutions, Inc. on being the recipients of the Climate Action

46:32Award, Climate Action Award from Ontario Water Works Association and Water Environment Association

46:38of Ontario. The OWWA slash WEO Climate Action Award is an annual award that recognizes and

46:47acknowledges innovations in infrastructure that adapt to climate change or resilient infrastructure

46:53or reduce climate impacts by significantly decreasing greenhouse gas emissions known as

46:58mitigation. The city's climate adaptation plan itemizes and prioritizes the various risks and

47:04known impacts of climate change on water, wastewater and storm water and many other

47:09city service areas providing a priority matrix and framework. The progressive 163 action plan

47:17is innovative in several ways, which includes a rigorous risk assessment process, identification

47:24of a broad range of adaptation measures, alignment with the corporate asset management plan,

47:29inclusive stakeholder engagement and evaluating the disproportionate impact

47:33that climate change has on vulnerable populations. Terrific. Congratulations Monica, Terry,

47:40Heather, Kevin and Nectar on this prestigious award furthering the work of climate action change

47:45within our community. Oh I like that. Okay so you do have a really nice photo on the bridge but we're

47:56going to do each one of the groups down at the uh at the banner there. Okay everybody well that

53:05was great. Congratulations again to everybody for those recognitions. Thank you for thank you for

53:12what you do in our city. It needs to be celebrated uh more often uh the behind the scenes stuff that

53:19happens here. Sometimes people just don't get and so we just that's good to publicly publicly say

53:25thank you so thank you very much again. With that there's only one item under governance and uh

53:33that's me as your chair and it is the Indigenous Relations Framework. We're going to kick some

53:38things off with presentation from our own staff. Kim I think is coming up here and uh

53:43then we also have some delegations as well and then we'll turn it over to the committee uh to

53:50go from there. Kim thank you very much over to you whenever you're ready. Thank you so much and

53:55good afternoon Mayor and Council. My name is Kim Krochek and I have had the pleasure of working

54:00as part of a larger staff team on the development of the City's First Indigenous Relations Framework

54:06which you have in front of you today. I am joined for this presentation by Stephen Van Lafault the

54:11owner of Insight Consulting who provided leadership and guidance throughout each phase of this project.

54:17We are here today to present the results of a year's worth of engagement, discussions and

54:22collaborations with Indigenous peoples living in or connected to Guelph. This framework will

54:28guide the City's actions for the next five years as we seek to advance reconciliation.

54:36This discussion today will provide you with an overview of where we started,

54:42how the project was undertaken, what was heard and learned and most importantly how those

54:48learnings are going to guide our actions into the future. So while the City has been working to

55:01advance reconciliation through initiatives across departments over the past few years,

55:07I really like to think that the journey in developing this framework started with the

55:11refresh of the City's strategic plan. Advancing reconciliation through the development of this

55:16framework was embedded as an initiative within the Advocate for our City objective. This reaffirmed

55:23the City's commitment to advance truth and reconciliation and the desire to work towards

55:28building strong and respectful relationships with Indigenous peoples. This framework is focused on

55:33providing guidance to the City on how we can better learn, understand, prioritize and adopt

55:39actions that will advance reconciliation. This framework also provides an opportunity to align

55:45our actions to government reports, studies and priorities which are relevant to municipalities.

55:51These include the truth and reconciliation calls to action, the missing and murdered Indigenous

55:55women and girls calls to justice and the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous

56:00Peoples. In early 2024, the City embarked on a journey of listening and learning and we value

56:07the collaboration, perspectives and experiences that each participant offered in this process,

56:12many of whom are sitting behind me today. This work would not have been possible without the

56:17diverse voices that answered our calls for participation. This framework is built on a

56:22foundation of engagement that we will rely on as we navigate changes and next steps. So now I'm

56:28going to pass this over to Stephen who's going to walk you through what we heard through this

56:32process, the commitments that were built based on these inputs. Thank you. Good afternoon Mayor,

56:43members of council. My name is Stephen Van Loffels. I'm Anishinaabe from Sagin First Nation Ontario,

56:49former Guelph resident and principal of InSight Consulting. I had the privilege of

56:56helping coordinate the project over the past couple of months and I want to thank

56:59Kimberly for her leadership and dedication. It's been remarkable watching the community

57:06really build around this project. As Kim mentioned, we took a three-phased approach in this project.

57:16We met with the community members to build this framework and through the engagement process,

57:21we used a variety of engagement methods including one-on-one interviews, group sessions,

57:28an online survey, discussions with yourselves as well as discussions with Mr. Saugers of the

57:35Credit First Nation, Six Nations of the Grand River as well as the Grand River Métis Council.

57:39So our outreach was fulsome. We also hosted two all-day events and an evening meeting meal to

57:46facilitate input, review and validate the information that we had gathered throughout the

57:54process and really to celebrate our achievements. Through the engagement, we're able to reach more

58:00people throughout this process. More people started to come out to the engagement, which we see as

58:08an indication that there's a growing desire among community members to participate in this work,

58:13to see this work move forward. In terms of what we heard, I'll start with outreach with the nations.

58:22Our conversations with Indigenous nations included the need for regular communication,

58:28the need for collaboration. That can be outlined in memoranda of understanding, ways to collaborate,

58:37participating in events, economic reconciliation, as well as environmental sustainability.

58:44All of this is underpinned by the importance of nation-to-nation relationships and upholding

58:49treaty rights. So that's what we heard from the Indigenous nations. What we heard from members

58:57of the urban Indigenous community and as well as local organizations is that there's a real desire

59:04for visibility, greater visibility throughout Guelph, greater inclusion. And I think we heard

59:11throughout the need for safe, inclusive gathering spaces. There's a need for Indigenous representation

59:18throughout the city, but also within the public service. Greater representation. Greater need for

59:24access to Indigenous-led services through regional partnerships. There's a lot of organizations

59:29out there that are doing some great work, greater partnerships with those organizations. As well

59:33as emphasis on dismantling barriers, eliminating discrimination, and improving access to city

59:39services. Of course, we met with all of you. Appreciate all of you for having those candid

59:48discussions with us in terms of what you need. And what we heard is that this is really the

59:52beginning of a reconciliation journey. You guys want to get this right. And it starts with acknowledging

59:59the truth and also investing in education, continuous education. There's an emphasis on cultural

1:00:06sensitivity, eliminating racism, and walking together to get this right. In terms of the

1:00:14framework itself, the vision is for the Indigenous reconciliation framework, for Guelph to be a

1:00:21vibrant city, strengthened by solid, collaborative, and transparent relationships with the Mississaugas

1:00:27of the Credit First Nation, Six Nations of the Grand River, the Grand River Métis Council,

1:00:32and urban Indigenous peoples in the city of Guelph, guided by Gido Naganina and Saweito

1:00:42Kwaserat. Those are the show that we're all learning in terms of pronunciation. Or the dish with

1:00:48one spoon. And a shared future of mutual respect, trust, understanding, and prosperity. As we move

1:00:57into the actual framework itself, there are five focus areas. And as I go through the next few

1:01:02slides, I'll be referencing some page numbers for those that want to follow along. These relate

1:01:08to the framework provided as Attachment 1 to the staff report. The framework is made up of a series

1:01:14of five areas of focus found on page six, which were developed to help connect the different themes

1:01:20of commitments that we heard from the engagements. These areas of focus include Indigenous representation

1:01:27and participation, learning together, safe spaces and supports, employment and economic

1:01:35reconciliation, and protecting our environment for future generations. Within each area of focus

1:01:43are a series of commitments, which help to provide direction on priorities for the city to undertake

1:01:48over the next five years. The commitments range in their level of specificity, with the goal of the

1:01:54framework to provide flexibility in continuing conversations and collaborations on the exact

1:02:00solutions that will be undertaken. The next few slides that I'm about to get into will summarize

1:02:06our summarized version of each of these commitments. And in the interest of time, I'll only touch on a

1:02:12few today. For those following along with the attached framework, you can also see how each

1:02:17commitment will help to advance the national calls and articles within reports and studies that Kim

1:02:22had mentioned previously. So in terms of the first one, Indigenous representation and participation,

1:02:30this reflects calls for the city to improve efforts to integrate Indigenous perspectives

1:02:34into the city's services and initiatives. Both the Indigenous nations and urban Indigenous

1:02:39community members are seeking improved representation and relationships, which can be seen in a few of

1:02:45the commitments shown here. More specifically, the Mississaugas of the Credit First nations and

1:02:50Six Nations of the Grand River are seeking to establish relationship agreements between the city

1:02:56and the nations to improve relationship building and better understand our collective and shared

1:03:01priorities. This type of commitment is one that has already been undertaken by other municipalities

1:03:08throughout the GTA and has proven to result in improved relationships between those municipalities

1:03:14and the Indigenous nations. Focus area number two is learning together. Learning together,

1:03:25which is on page nine of the report, includes different commitments that will better enable

1:03:29the city's ability to learn and understand Indigenous experiences and perspectives and

1:03:34improve the visibility of Indigenous cultures, heritage and presence on the land. This was

1:03:40a priority that was heard throughout the engagements, including those with city councils.

1:03:45For commandment 2.1 is shown up on the on the screen by encouraging the prioritization of

1:03:50improved knowledge and understanding among city council and staff. We will all be able to work

1:03:55collectively towards achieving the vision and commitments within this framework. Number three

1:04:02is safe spaces and supports. And this reflects a call from urban Indigenous community members

1:04:08for the city to support and lead initiatives that will have a direct impact on the lives of

1:04:13Indigenous peoples living in Guelph. This includes addressing calls for safe and accessible gathering

1:04:19spaces in the city, which is reflected in commitment 3.1 for both the short and long-term solutions

1:04:27where the city can lead or support different initiatives. In terms of number four, employment

1:04:36and economic reconciliation, which you can find on page 11, this seeks to make economic opportunities

1:04:42available to everyone and ensure that all have a fair chance to succeed and thrive.

1:04:48Commitment 4.1 places importance on ensuring the city is able to incorporate different perspectives

1:04:55by strengthening our employment practices, not only in recruitment, but also ensuring that the

1:05:00city is creating safe spaces to improve the employee experience. And finally, protecting our

1:05:08environments for future generations. This will be found on page 12 in the report. And this is focused

1:05:15on commandments 5.1 and 5.2, which look to work collaboratively by exploring ways to integrate

1:05:21both Indigenous and Western knowledge to protect our relationship with the environment.

1:05:26These collective focus areas and commitments reflect what we heard throughout the engagement

1:05:30process and represent what is feasible for the city to undertake over the next five years.

1:05:36This framework was developed with the flexibility to respond to evolving needs and changing

1:05:41circumstances. And with that, I just want to acknowledge the community members that are here

1:05:47today, all of those that participated throughout this process, those that couldn't be here today.

1:05:52I want to say, big thank you for the trust that they put in me throughout this process.

1:05:58And I'll pass it back to Kimberly to take us through the last few slides. Thank you.

1:06:14So through the development of the framework, we now have a renewed ability to evaluate the work

1:06:19we are already undertaking and use the commitments to strengthen our efforts by prioritizing our

1:06:25actions and clarifying the desired outcomes. As we move forwards, we will continue to work

1:06:30as a city to enhance our work and integrate new approaches and new initiatives. The city is

1:06:36committed to reporting on our collective progress to advancing the commitments. This will help to

1:06:41bring together the efforts of all city departments to show the collective impact of our efforts and

1:06:46ensure transparency in our commitment to achieving the vision for the Indigenous Relations Framework.

1:06:51Before we close, I also wanted to take a moment from the city's perspective to thank all of those

1:06:57who took time to attend engagements and provide inputs. This includes the Mississaugas of the

1:07:01Credit First Nations, the Six Nations of the Grand River, the Grand River Métis Council,

1:07:06all of the urban Indigenous community members that participated, and as well as all of you,

1:07:10Mayor and Council. The development of this framework does not mark the close of a journey,

1:07:16but the beginning of a new chapter. As we approach the National Day for Truthful

1:07:21and Reconciliation on September 30, let us all take time to reflect on the impact that we can have

1:07:27and use this framework and the momentum behind it to move us into a new chapter of the city's

1:07:33reconciliation journey. Thank you. Thank you both for the presentation. Really appreciate it.

1:07:41And for letting that out for everybody here in us. We do have a few delegations. I just want to

1:07:46make sure to clerk the first individuals still unavailable. Okay, so in person we have Verna.

1:07:54Is Verna here? Oh, my glasses on. Okay, perfect. Come on down when you're ready there.

1:08:03And just for everyone that is going to delegate to us, you have no more than five minutes, and so

1:08:10you'll just come up to the microphone here. The microphone will turn green, meaning it's on.

1:08:15And then you have up to five minutes, and you'll hear a chime at the four minutes and 30 second

1:08:21mark, which just kind of gives you a 30 second warning that you're coming close to the five

1:08:26minute time frame there. And then once you're done, if you could also just stick around just in case

1:08:31there's a question from myself or colleagues to whatever you've just delegated to. So hopefully

1:08:36that makes sense. And we'll see who's up after Verna. Is Mora here? Yes. Okay, so you're in

1:08:44the wings just after Verna. Okay, perfect. Great. Thank you again. And please, whenever you're ready

1:09:54to begin, go right ahead. Okay. Thank you. We are offering this water that has been spoken by our

1:10:46May 2 articles figure, knowledge holder and longtime community member, Levenley looking after

1:10:53her children and grandchildren here in Guelph. Hi, hi, Mariana. Sharing this water with everyone

1:10:58is meant to give our spirit nourishment and to brighten ourselves up to be in a place of wise

1:11:05counsel. We like to preface that that we are governor here to share today by sharing first

1:11:23how these particular one palm agreement replicas came to the Guelph indigenous community.

1:11:30Council on July 7 our council along with our coalition of grassroots organizers, protectors

1:11:40and local elders of the Mississaugas of the Credit convened a ceremony to address longstanding

1:11:46harms in the indigenous community here in Guelph. We sent out an invitation to the city council

1:11:52and our in receipt of a letter from the city declining our invitation to witness our efforts

1:11:57of self determination. We acknowledge that there is a good intent portrayed within this letter.

1:12:04However, it was violated by the city staff directing the city parks to interfere and to

1:12:10fight and stop our ceremony. On that day we went to access the secret fire at city

1:12:17with Royal City Park. To our dismay the locks had been changed by city parks at the behest of the

1:12:23Intergovernmental Affairs team responsible for the development of the framework. Rest assured our

1:12:29ceremony was successful. However, we learned later that the city staff had been misinformed by this

1:12:35group who were being called into account. So instead of communicating with our coalition they

1:12:40opted to enforce colonial control to replace the locks and prevent access to the sacred fire site

1:12:47intended for all indigenous community members. This was followed up by confirmation that the

1:12:53Guelph sacred fire is the property of the city to be dictated and controlled by the city and only

1:12:59allowing indigenous access to it through consent of the city. Although this deeply flawed service

1:13:06to the work of building meaningful indigenous relationships took place and our ceremony was

1:13:12slightly delayed we are not we were not hindered entirely. Through the observance of authentic

1:13:19customs and traditions received voluntarily the community bundle was passed over to us.

1:13:25A few weeks later we opened the bundle and to our astonishment these Wampom agreements were in the

1:13:31contents. Yet these actions of the city staff had interfered with our process and constitute a huge

1:13:37violation to the sanctity of these Wampom agreements which are recognized by international law

1:13:44especially the two row Wampom agreement of non-interference. This casts a shadow over the

1:13:50whole framework engagement process and demonstrates an inherent lack of trustworthiness.

1:13:56Since January we have been engaged in the process to address issues of misrepresentation,

1:14:02indigenous identity theft, false teachings, exclusion and manipulation by the former first

1:14:08nations Métis Intuit Circle of Guelph whose primary leadership and membership were in fact

1:14:14not indigenous peoples at all. It is important to understand systematically how this group of

1:14:21individuals have utilized their influence built over decades to prevent recognizably indigenous

1:14:26community members here in Guelph from collectively advancing and how this has contributed to Guelph's

1:14:33languishing behind other jurisdictions in their relations with indigenous people. History is

1:14:39repeating itself here and now in the preference it is is to avoid facing the truth and is highly

1:14:46unlikely true reconciliation will unfold. When the indigenous relations framework engagement

1:14:53sessions began our community had expressed our concern on how these same individuals inserted

1:14:59themselves into the process. Throughout this engagement process we observed how these individuals

1:15:04worked to undermine the collective voice that was being shared by authentic indigenous community

1:15:10members by informing them how this framework would turn out. We observed how the process

1:15:16was not meeting the community needs and they asked when when we asked for a shift in the process.

1:15:24In the spirit of the 94 calls of action and truth and reconciliation the undripped and missing

1:15:29murdered indigenous women and girls women and girls recommendations we do not see how these

1:15:35frameworks have been applied to the unique dynamics of our community. Upon reviewing the

1:15:41framework at its presently exist it is impossible to distinguish what is the voice of the community

1:15:48at the of the community. At the engagements we heard resoundedly the need of a shared space

1:15:54of recognizably indigenous community members to be able to gather plan out community driven

1:16:00initiatives access authentic healing and cultural teachings and the needs of the community were

1:16:06not reflected in the report. The fact remains that the city of Guelph has unsuccessfully attempted

1:16:12to establish the framework for indigenous relations many times before. In this process now we can

1:16:17observe that pattern repeating itself as the framework presently exists. Inevitably the same

1:16:23outcomes will occur and nothing will change. Please note that our intervention here today

1:16:28is one of deep care for the collective well-being of recognizably indigenous community members that

1:16:34live here in Guelph. We wish to see a process that is indigenous led community driven and based upon

1:16:40the practice of care congruent with our fundamental human rights law. The committee needs to look

1:16:46no further than surrounding jurisdictions who have learned these lessons the hard way and have had

1:16:51to take a step back enable the community to lead. We don't need to reinvent the wheel but we do need

1:16:57to learn how to be in better relationships with one another. It starts with learning about the

1:17:02true spirit of these Wampum agreements and in which many of our community members have been

1:17:07prevented access. Who here knows about the Wampum agreements and can work with them in the now to

1:17:14help us navigate these shared relations. We see this as an opportunity to learn together side by

1:17:21side. Who benefits from this framework. Who does this ultimately serve. Here in the Guelph we have

1:17:29a community members living in systematic poverty vulnerable women and children and elderly ones

1:17:34who don't have access to basic care. Most of our population is marginalized. It is critical that our

1:17:41work together that we work together by prioritizing community members who have been excluded and

1:17:46forgotten. This was meant to ensure that everyone was looked after by sharing our provisions

1:17:52of the land. We've so far we have not had the capacity to honor these original agreements.

1:17:59Instead we have witnessed how the Indigenous community involvement was based on a policy

1:18:03of self identification with no real intent to make sure that the voiced opinions were authentic

1:18:09Indigenous community members. Further where it relates to funding we have seen how certain

1:18:14mechanisms of control have created deeply inequitable disparities. This has been a practice

1:18:21for many years and has created the corruption within the city of Indigenous identity theft.

1:18:27In order to go forward we must clear first clean up the mess that has those that have

1:18:31stolen our Indigenous identity and and or have used our Indigenous heritage for the personal

1:18:37gain that goes against our distinct ways and culture. This has a clear and measurable impacts

1:18:43on the increasing vulnerable Indigenous population. For this framework to enable good relations and

1:18:49to learn the hard lessons of the past we see a clear path on our journey of self-determination,

1:18:55truth and reconciliation, community well-being and health. From here we see three vital steps to

1:19:02ensure the spirit of correction and realignment so right relations can happen. One, reparations made

1:19:09by the city for their interference and violation of the community self-determination Indigenous law

1:19:15and the spirit of the framework itself. Two, we invite City Council to make a clear commitment

1:19:20to renewing the framework process in a community-driven way that keeps Indigenous community members safe.

1:19:28Three, we long to see a commitment to learn and polish the chains of these agreements by each

1:19:33new City Council in a way we can ensure that the necessary education to prevent further calm.

1:19:39When we look at Guelph we see a leading and thriving community who is often at the spear tip of

1:19:45innovation, capacity, organization and community-driven initiatives. This framework of good relations

1:19:54can be another opportunity for Guelph to lead provided we enable the spirit of realignment,

1:20:01correction and healing to permeate the good work of the framework that has been put forward.

1:20:07Our recommendations to the Committee of the Whole are meant to provide you all with an opportunity to

1:20:13be on the right side of history. In this way we'd like to invite any interested Council members

1:20:20to our Feast on October 20th where you may witness a spirit-led, heart-driven effort by our community

1:20:29to continue to exercise our self-determination, repair the harms and deepen our learning on this

1:20:37journey. Please consider our words wisely and know that we have come in the spirit of non-interference

1:20:44of an abundant provisional dish and the spirit of peace and friendship our grandmothers and

1:20:51our grandfathers have established for us. Tendakie for your time today.

1:20:57Hi. Thank you. I appreciate that and a couple of things just to counsel and everyone else.

1:21:05Normally the the time limit is five minutes but there was kind of like a presentation going on

1:21:11at the same time. I didn't want to interfere with that, wanted to respect that and also I think I

1:21:16saw a few members come up that were on the list anyway so you were doing it together so I just

1:21:20wanted to allow that space to occur so that's why I didn't want to interrupt you. Okay so please

1:21:28if you can stay just in case there is a question if not we can move on but I'll defer round.

1:21:33There isn't but thank you very much again for your presentation and your gift of this to us

1:21:40as well at the same time so thank you very much. Tendakie. So now Mora was up here with you so what

1:21:51about Randy? Is Randy free here? Okay Randy you're next and then is William Barber here? Okay and then

1:22:02you're in the wings so you're after Randy and just to remember it's no more than five minutes

1:22:12and you'll just have you'll hear that chime that first chime at four minutes and 30 seconds just

1:22:18as the kind of the heads up that the five minutes is coming due and then I'll ask that you stop at

1:22:24that moment so we can see if there's any questions but Randy thank you for coming I'll turn the mic

1:22:28over to you. Sure thank you. Tansi Seigo, Haneboju, Tansi Kiwau, Mino Gizga, Kinoe, Nijaginashi

1:22:42Newsom, Randy Fries, Ndishnikaz is my government name, Nijaginashi Newsom, Mason Kretney Ndishnikaz

1:22:49was my name at birth. Ndishnikaz. Dina Done, Indunjaba is where I live now by way of many other places

1:23:03Daigi Kendo Masi Dodem. I am Plains Cree in Red River Maiti and I've been reconnecting to my culture

1:23:11and family for a little more than 20 years since I met my birth mother in the year 2000

1:23:18and learning in Nishinawabemone for the last few years. Gizichi Keiwin, Mom B. My name is Randy Fries.

1:23:26I'm here today as a member of the GICC that's the Guelph Indigenous Community Council.

1:23:32We aim to bring together the Guelph urban indigenous people through collaboration,

1:23:36consultation, communication, leadership and a unified voice in order to be heard, seen

1:23:42and present as an indigenous community. That being said, the following are my thoughts and feelings

1:23:51towards the indigenous framework exercise and may or may not reflect those of the rest of the council

1:23:58or even other community members. And I will read now the letter that I wrote, Dear Indigenous

1:24:05Relations Framework Team. I have written this letter in response to your acknowledgement letter

1:24:12and invitation to witness our ceremony for community restorative justice and hand over

1:24:20the community to bundle items and tools. First, following the actions and events related to the

1:24:27July 7 ceremony and relating to your team's interference with both the sacred fire site

1:24:33and the ceremony for restorative justice as it violates the relations framework as well as

1:24:39UNDRIK conventions similar to free prior and informed consent among others. Whether or not,

1:24:47as a municipal settler state agent, you recognize as such the sacred fire is considered

1:24:54indigenous land and held sacred. Fires had been put on hold temporarily following a pipe ceremony

1:25:01and a voluntary handover of the locks at the site in order to facilitate the July 7 ceremony.

1:25:09This interference violates indigenous ceremonial protocols,

1:25:14sacred pipe ceremonial protocols and the entire relations framework exercise as it has taken

1:25:20place thus far. Your team's decision to disengage from such an important community ceremonial

1:25:28undertaking and not attend neither as an ally or a settler state witness

1:25:34places your team on the wrong side of history in terms of reconciliation

1:25:38and any commitment to decolonize institutional systems of oppression and suppression of

1:25:43indigenous voices in the Guelph urban community. Our collective hearts are broken at your team's

1:25:49actions and if you wish to make amends at a future time, we will take your team's requests

1:25:56into consideration with kindness and respect following indigenous models of restorative justice

1:26:02as well. This is not to shame your team but to make your team and community members aware of the

1:26:08harms your team have created with intention by disrupting the sacred ceremony and its protocols.

1:26:16As we continue down this path of separate yet equal nations in peace, friendship and respect,

1:26:23these actions yet speak again speak volumes of the settler state's intentions when it comes to

1:26:29honoring agreements such as treaties, wampum and sovereignty of nationhood, as well as individuals

1:26:36among the community who stand up to have a voice in our council and community membership.

1:26:41One treaty does not supersede another as stated by Gesuenta. Together we travel in friendship

1:26:50and peace forever as long as the grass is green, as long as the water runs downhill,

1:26:55as long as the sun shines in east and sets in the west, as long as the mother earth will last.

1:27:03Miigwech, thank you for your time. Thank you. Is there any follow-up at this time?

1:27:10With the delegation? No. Okay, thank you very much for being here. Appreciate it.

1:27:16And William, you are next and you're coming down for us. Welcome. And again, you have no more than

1:27:24five minutes and you can start whenever you wish. Hello, I'm Will Barber. I'm a firekeeper in town.

1:27:33I have had the honor and privilege as a settler to have teachers like Josephine Mandaman.

1:27:38And so when I see Matria extending with water to speak, it's beautiful and it's awesome.

1:27:43My concern with the Indigenous Relationship Framework is it didn't start with the Royal

1:27:49Proclamation of 1763 and pursuant to the Royal Proclamation of 1763, you guys are all obliged

1:27:55to comply with treaty. It's not like this framework is a new step to do that. And as you can see,

1:28:01when you're not complying with treaty, it gets kind of awkward because you're applied to. And

1:28:07specifically, your municipal processes, such as your drinking water from the

1:28:14wastewater treatment plant, you don't consider treaty obligations when you're seeking approval

1:28:19and design. You seek permits from MECP co-accomplices in not cleaning the water that goes downhill to

1:28:27Six Nations. And we need to not be in positions municipally where we're asking stupid questions.

1:28:33And if you can poison the river is a stupid question to be asking. So I just need to

1:28:40have City of Guelph live up to the potential of its populace, of genuinely caring to be progressive

1:28:48and revising this municipal framework to include some accountability because between truth and

1:28:55reconciliation is accountability and consequences. And what this does is presents a reconciliation

1:29:02narrative, but there's no actual legal basis that's obliging you to proceed. And that is a very

1:29:08dangerous territory that far too many operations in Canada are. And we need to keep advancing. So

1:29:14thank you very much. Thank you for your presentation. Now to see if there's a follow up. There is not.

1:29:20Okay. Thank you. I just wanted to ask. Thank you. And that's it for our delegations today. Again,

1:29:27thank you very much for doing for doing that. There was some correspondence attached as well.

1:29:33We have the recommendation in front of us here before we started any questions of clarity or

1:29:39anything else on the matter may ask someone to be willing to to move the Gower and Colosson. We'll

1:29:47do that. Thank you. So the recommendation is on the floor that the Indigenous Relations Framework

1:29:53for the City of Guelph as attached to the report titled Indigenous Relations Framework

1:29:58dated September 4th, 2024 be approved. With that, is there any questions from anyone from committee

1:30:04before I call the vote? Okay. I'll start with Busatil and then O'Rourke. Thank you. Thank you very

1:30:14much to the staff and also to the delegations. I just have some questions about the framework,

1:30:20just clarification because it makes reference to, you know, this is the beginning of the journey.

1:30:27If you can speak to, you know, just like policies, is it in a cycle for revisiting,

1:30:32is it a living document, is it an annual thing? And then I have a follow up question as well.

1:30:40Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Busuttil. The framework is a five-year timeframe for

1:30:45implementation. This represents what we think is possible for the city to accomplish within that

1:30:51timeframe. At the point of five years, this would be refreshed, renewed, revisited, and put forth

1:30:59again for approval from council. As it relates to the framework itself being a living document,

1:31:06that was the purpose in terms of putting it forward as a framework versus an action plan,

1:31:11is because we wanted to embed flexibility in the commitments in front of you to ensure that we can

1:31:16adapt and be flexible to the changing circumstances in the community, changing desires or priorities

1:31:22within the community. And by presenting it in this way, it gives us that opportunity to be able to

1:31:27adapt, change, and renew as we go forward with the specific actions that move those commitments forward.

1:31:34Thank you. Just to be clear then, the conversations, relationships, and so on continue to evolve

1:31:40within the five years. And incrementally, any input and changes would be reflected in that five-year

1:31:48representation back to council. Is that correct? For you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Busuttil, that's

1:31:54correct. Yes. My second question is about on page eight, it's about Indigenous representation and

1:32:02participation. I'm a little bit confused in the 1.1 and 1.2. We talk about a dedicated role. I

1:32:11assume that's a staff role within the city. So through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Busuttil,

1:32:19it represents, so 1.1 or commitment 1.1, represents the responsibility for building

1:32:25relationships with the urban Indigenous community and the need for that to be embedded within roles

1:32:30within the city, both existing and future. We see that there needs to be a bit more of a broad

1:32:37approach with that role. We did look at this as something that needs to be integrated across

1:32:42the organization and not something that's existing within specifically one role, one person. We need

1:32:48to be looking at this as a city-wide effort and where can we embed these types of responsibilities

1:32:53and positions in departments and service areas across the organization. Thank you. I know this

1:32:58is a bit of a comment, but I'm relieved to hear that coming from the education sector, rather than

1:33:02something that is a caboose added on. It is something that is reflective of an education in the math

1:33:10curriculum and so on in there. My second part of the question is, in that same area, it references

1:33:16the Indigenous advisory circle. I'm a little bit confused about roles of the Indigenous advisory

1:33:26circle because it talks about Indigenous relations, cultural guidance, and I'm wondering where the

1:33:31meat and potatoes, I'll be very blunt about it, where the meat and potatoes, where is the connection

1:33:36to governance to governance around planning? Are we heard in the delegation about water and pollution

1:33:42and things? Where are those hard conversations and that authentic engagement? Where is that

1:33:49looped in? Is that the Indigenous advisory circle or is that back with the Mississaugas

1:33:57of the Credit First Nation, the Six Nations, and the Grand River? Can you just help me tease that

1:34:04out because this is a power conversation. It's a power sharing conversation and I'm a little bit

1:34:11confused about that. Thank you. So through you Mr. Mayor to you, Councillor Busuttil. So that's a

1:34:17great question. The Indigenous advisory circle is something that we heard from our engagements.

1:34:23We also, in speaking with other municipalities and agencies who have similar types of whether it be

1:34:30advisory committees or councils that deal with this specific type of responsibility, we saw it as

1:34:36being something that could really help to provide Indigenous perspectives in city decision making.

1:34:42That's really the outcome that we're after with that initiative itself. I would say that

1:34:48when we undertake the implementation of this framework following the approval of this document,

1:34:55that there is a lot of research discussions and just further information gathering that we need

1:35:03to go through with other agencies, municipalities, etc., who have gone through this process and have

1:35:09their own lessons learned. There's no one approach to an Indigenous advisory circle or council. There

1:35:15are so many different approaches just based off the high level research we've done. What we need

1:35:19to do is take a look at what's worked for others and what hasn't worked for others and find a fit

1:35:23that's right for Guelph and right for the Guelph urban Indigenous community as well. And I think

1:35:28to your comment about the Indigenous nations as well, I think that this circle could not

1:35:33proceed without having representation and or support from our treaty and partner nations.

1:35:41Thank you. And last piece to that is just even grassroots kind of experience and gardening and

1:35:48things like that and trying to connect in the West End with individuals in our community and the

1:35:54feedback that we get and we see and we feel is very fragmented. And what we receive back from

1:36:03residents in the West End is that I've had my identity beaten out of me for so many years.

1:36:10I don't even know what sweet grass looks like anymore, right, from from my history and so on.

1:36:14So my question is in this, it's great to say this is where we want to be. There is a development piece

1:36:20here that I feel is missing, which is that reconnection of that community development piece,

1:36:25bringing the community together. I'm not clear here in representation and participation

1:36:32who is the keeper, who is leading that process, who has the responsibility to gather, to bring

1:36:39those pieces together. Is that the Indigenous Advisory Circle because you're talking about

1:36:45relations and cultural guidance? And if so, is that a resource group? You know, we're talking

1:36:51about our framework of advisory councils or yeah, in the city of Guelph. Is that something that is

1:36:57resourced in terms of a relationship building, awareness, knowledge moving to action? Can you

1:37:04help me understand that? Because it's, I know it's a little piece in here in the full report,

1:37:09which I love the report. Thank you for a full year's work, but I'm a little bit confused about

1:37:14the end goal here and what are the pieces to get there?

1:37:19Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Bousetel, I hope I'm answering your question and perhaps I

1:37:22might need a little bit of clarification, but I would say just as a starting point here, each

1:37:26commitment is going to be led by a variety of different departments across the city. We've already

1:37:31begun to have those discussions with staff whose work already touches on these commitments to find

1:37:36ways where we can actually enhance and strengthen the work we're already doing to make sure that

1:37:41what we heard in the engagements is going to be reflected back to us in the work that's already

1:37:46taking place, essentially. So each commitment is really going to have a different level and or type

1:37:53of accountability determined by the type of actions that we take within each commitment.

1:37:58When it relates to the Indigenous Advisory Council, I don't want to presuppose the outcome in terms

1:38:02of what that's going to look like and how that's going to work and what you'll see coming forward.

1:38:06We have a lot of research still to do to make sure that we get that right. That's a really important

1:38:11part of this framework is the establishment of that advisory council. We want to make sure we have

1:38:15enough information in front of us before we make that commitment. I think that as we get down the

1:38:20road of trying to make a decision of what this looks like, you could expect to see something

1:38:25come forward to council that would show whether there'd be resource requirements or otherwise,

1:38:30that we would be bringing that back in front of you as well. Just to clarify on that one as well,

1:38:36we've structured this as an Indigenous Advisory Circle versus an advisory council,

1:38:41so making that separation from council advisory committees and to a more of a staff-led and

1:38:47community participant type of advisory circle.

1:38:52Just through the mayor, thank you for that and I'll watch that as it progresses. Thank you.

1:38:59Thank you, Marga. Three through you to Ms. Kraschek. Just I hear you talking about some staff-led

1:39:05pieces, but we heard from the delegates that they're looking for more Indigenous-led opportunities

1:39:11and feel there were gaps in the creation of the framework. So as we move forward,

1:39:17does meeting these objectives, important objectives like a place to gather,

1:39:22right, more visibility, these things, where's the space for Indigenous folks to lead

1:39:29and for staff to support? What does that look like going forward in the achievement of the goals?

1:39:36So through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Orrwork, I would start by saying that this framework

1:39:41is something that's intended to guide the city. It's a framework that was developed

1:39:45by the city with the participation and collaboration and inputs from the urban Indigenous community

1:39:51and the commitments within this framework are those that are intended to guide our actions.

1:39:56And so as we go forwards, this is just a starting point. This really is just the starting point.

1:40:02The engagements that happened as part of the development of this framework, while they've

1:40:06come to a close in the development of this piece specifically, there is still so much

1:40:10conversation and discussion that has to happen as we start to try and figure out exactly how we

1:40:15want to progress each commitment. And so there's that opportunity for continued co-collaboration

1:40:21and co-development in the solutions that we define as part of the commitments that are in this framework.

1:40:27Thanks. I think that's important. And through you, Mayor Guthrie, just another question. So

1:40:32the framework is clear on its objectives over the next five years. How does this intersect

1:40:38with other city priorities? I'll give examples just from today's agenda, right?

1:40:43When we are redoing the streetscaping downtown, are there opportunities for Indigenous representation

1:40:50in that? When we are looking at the heritage district and those discussions, where is the

1:40:55indigeneity going to be reflected and protected in that? So this is one piece. How does this piece

1:41:02connect to the Strat Plan, to, you know, water waste water? So can you help me understand how

1:41:09this fits in or how this helps to lead other key city documents? So through you, Mr. Mayor,

1:41:16to Councillor O'Rourke, I would start by saying that the city currently has existing processes in place

1:41:23that does seek to engage in a formal way. We seek to engage and consult with the Mississaugas of the

1:41:29Credit First Nations, as well as Six Nations of the Grand River. And given the priorities that we've

1:41:33heard from the nations through the engagements of this process, we understand that there is

1:41:38a value and a desire to have increased communications and to find additional ways

1:41:44to present different perspectives. So for example, I'm trying to remember which one

1:41:48that's in here. I believe it's safe spaces and supports or perhaps representation, but there's

1:41:55a drive and a need for increased visibility of Indigenous histories on the land, cultures,

1:42:03etc. So opportunities where when we have, let's say, a project that's happening, an infrastructure

1:42:10project that's happening, and there's the need to name a specific trail, etc., there are opportunities

1:42:16to work with the nations and the urban Indigenous community to find ways to make

1:42:22indigeneity more visible within the City of Guelph. And so this framework kind of sets some of

1:42:27those priorities aside to say there are specific priorities in some of these commitments that

1:42:33can be brought forward into the existing work that we're doing. So it's essentially strengthening

1:42:36and enhancing the types of process we already have in place. Great. And through you, America,

1:42:42through just the last question from Ms. Krautcheck, some of the correspondence refers to the good

1:42:46work being done by SOHAC. You know, the reference to we need some spaces refers to the fact that

1:42:52Guelph doesn't have a front-hip centre. And so those two aren't identified specifically in this

1:42:59framework. Is that sort of to be researched and developed and come to the fore later? Obviously,

1:43:07we can't tell partners what to do. But are those things that are all sort of in the mix right now?

1:43:14The three of you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor, are work. I would direct you to page 10 in the framework.

1:43:19Commitment 3.1 does speak to the desire and the priority for finding safe spaces to gather.

1:43:26The city is currently exploring actively both interim and short-term solutions,

1:43:30as well as trying to figure out what those long-term solutions look like. There are things that are

1:43:35within our jurisdiction and ability to really influence and guide. And those are things that

1:43:40my colleague, Kira Sara, is already working on. But there's also things like friendship centres,

1:43:44where a municipality doesn't take the lead role in trying to facilitate that process. But what we

1:43:50can do is support and advocate. And that's what we tried to represent in Commitment 3.1.

1:43:55When it comes to other service agencies providing services or Indigenous-led services within the

1:44:01City of Guelph, we recognise the gap in the services that are currently provided here. We did have

1:44:06conversations with many agencies as part of this process, the SOHAC being one of them. And we've

1:44:12made a commitment, I believe it is in 3.3, to continue trying to build relationships with

1:44:18regional service agencies so that we can make sure that we can try and fill those gaps as much as

1:44:22possible. Now, obviously, like you said, we can't force anybody to do anything. But what can we do

1:44:28as a City to incentivise that? Okay, thanks very much. Councillor Allt. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:44:39Through you to staff and to Mr. Van Lefold. I was interested in, particularly, in point 2.2,

1:44:48which relates to UNDRIP Article 13. And the agencies, I think this is important,

1:44:57are we engaging in an active way towards education, the University and the community colleges

1:45:05with regards to the visibility of Indigenous cultural heritage events and restoring Indigenous

1:45:12languages? Through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Allt, just to recap what you're asking there,

1:45:25do you mind just repeating the end part, the last part of your question? The big agencies are the

1:45:31boards of education, the University and the community colleges. Are we engaging on them with

1:45:36regards to 2.2 issues associated with language, cultural heritage and restoring that heritage?

1:45:43Okay, so through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Allt, we did participate or we did engage with

1:45:50the different school boards as well as academic institutions in the City of Guelph to have discussions

1:45:55about alignments between their Indigenous initiatives as well as ours. I think there's

1:45:59still lots of work to be done in terms of aligning and partnerships. I would say that the commitments

1:46:04in our framework definitely speak to culture, language, etc. And so therefore, we would be

1:46:11finding ways to partner with other agencies and or service providers that are doing similar work.

1:46:19I certainly think this is quite important because in my opinion, the universities and the

1:46:25Board of Education are probably years ahead of us on this and we might be able to benefit from

1:46:32that knowledge. I had another question I just need to find. No, just a comment and that is,

1:46:38I appreciate the document because what I'm seeing this and perhaps Mr. Van Lofold can comment on this.

1:46:45This strikes me as a document about a journey rather than an arrival and that this is an unfolding

1:46:53and essentially a rediscovery of a settler obligation through treaty and through ethical

1:47:00principles. Is that correct? Do you, Mayor? To Councillor Allt. Absolutely. I think there was

1:47:08broad acknowledgement that this is really the beginning of a journey. There is no end.

1:47:14There's a lot of good work happening out there among partner organizations. You referenced the

1:47:19academic institutions. People are doing good work. This is how can we leverage what is already

1:47:24happening out there? How can we take direction from the community members from the nations?

1:47:29What does that look like? Let's do it together. Let's leverage those partnerships. Let's fill in

1:47:33those gaps of things that we don't know and let's get this right. Let's check in throughout this

1:47:38process to ensure that we actually are getting it right. Let's reflect with our partners. Let's

1:47:43hear from them and let's move forward in a good way. Thank you and I presume that that would

1:47:49also include faith organizations which in some cases have not been exactly positive in the past.

1:47:55Would I be correct? We actually did have some organizations reach out as part of this process

1:48:06that have expressed willingness to want to engage, that have talked about providing space,

1:48:11wanting to do this right. I think the opportunity is there when the community is ready and when the

1:48:16city is ready to engage in those discussions that those folks are at those faith organizations are

1:48:22ready to play their role. Thank you very much. Appreciate everything you've done. Thank you.

1:48:29Councillor Klassen. Yes, thank you through you Mr. Mayor and thank you to the delegates for

1:48:36coming out today. I've got a question with regard. It came as a result of listening to Councillor

1:48:42O'Rourke's comments with regard to 3.1, the need for safe accessible spaces to gather and it got

1:48:50me thinking about Anishinaabe outreach who had a centre here in Gualph until maybe a couple of years

1:48:57ago and so I was curious as part of our work with establishing and building maybe a potential centre

1:49:03if we're going to look at maybe why they decided to move out of this area because I do know that

1:49:08they were doing some work and education programs in the city of Gualph and I'm curious if we looked

1:49:15into perhaps why they don't have their space here anymore. Through you Mr. Mayor to Councillor

1:49:23Clawson. I think that that's a great point and I think that in that theme of research and information

1:49:29gathering to make sure that we are taking the next steps and the right steps forward that that

1:49:35would certainly be a topic we want to engage on. Okay, thank you and then next I noticed when

1:49:45Councillor Busuttil brought up the timeline for the framework you mentioned five years

1:49:50and then in your presentation you also talked about a reporting framework and so I was just

1:49:54curious about when we can expect to hear back and how we might expect to hear back because I know this

1:50:00isn't necessarily something that comes with with figures but it's it's more relational so I'm curious

1:50:06about how we might hear from you. So through you Mr. Mayor to Councillor Klassen accountability is a

1:50:12really important part of this process in ensuring accountability on the city's behalf in terms of

1:50:16advancing many of different commitments. We've already had discussions internally with our

1:50:21performance team about how we can integrate this framework and the type of reporting and the very

1:50:26unique type of reporting that would take place into the city's existing performance measurement

1:50:31system. So we are planning on having public reporting live and available as projects progress

1:50:38to make sure that we are taking the inputs and the actions and the initiatives from every department

1:50:44and pulling them together to really show how we are collectively trying to advance each commitment

1:50:49and that's the really that's the really key point here is by having that performance framework

1:50:53across the city we're going to be able to show the value and the collective impact of everybody's

1:50:59work as we're all doing individual pieces towards a common goal. Now that we have this framework

1:51:04we can see what that common goal is and be able to measure ourselves against that.

1:51:10Okay great I look forward to hearing more thanks. Great thank you is there any further

1:51:17questions or comments then before I call the vote? Okay I'll just have a quick a couple of comments.

1:51:24One is to staff just to say thank you and to you as well for our consultant that helped.

1:51:32Obviously all of your leadership was really good and it is a journey that we are on here and

1:51:41it's I think it's really important that we are at this or at least at this point where we're

1:51:48having this framework to us which I just want to say thank you to staff for the work that you did

1:51:53and then my second part is that I don't pretend to know like at all about maybe what's happened about

1:52:02maybe some of the the hurt that you feel some of the delegations that came up and your authenticity

1:52:10in that so I just wanted to publicly say I I don't know where to maybe begin other than to say

1:52:17as the mayor I am more than happy to meet with you. I could start there. I don't think I've met

1:52:24with you before but I'm more than happy to do that in a manner that's just authentic on my end

1:52:32too just to hear from you and to maybe learn from you so that you know we can we can have a great

1:52:38relationship too moving forward in the city because that's what I want to so thank you to staff but

1:52:44I want to say thank you to the delegations and I I take that really seriously and I I wouldn't

1:52:48mind understanding a bit more about what's occurred to date maybe where we can move forward from there

1:52:54in a better relationship so I just wanted to publicly say that to you I sincerely mean it okay so

1:52:58please I'll reach out to you or you reach out to me or whatever and we'll try to figure that out

1:53:02okay so thank you very much okay um I will call the vote then uh is anyone against the framework

1:53:10as presented uh nope nobody thank you that's unanimous so thank you very much and we'll move

1:53:15on to the next part of our agenda which actually includes uh not me uh has the chair it's going

1:53:22to be chair or work so I think it's probably a good time to take about a five to five to seven

1:53:27minute break just as we switch chairs and maybe we can get up and walk around for a moment uh and

1:53:32so why don't why don't we just say that we'll come back here and we'll start at 3 30 okay that's 10

1:53:37minutes all right and we'll start in the next section but thank you very much okay this is our

2:02:5720 second warning um if folks are joining us online I'm just going to ask you to turn on

2:03:03your cameras just to ensure that we have quorum thank you councillor all one two three oh there we go

2:03:12look more than quorum look at those smiling faces fantastic thank you very much okay welcome to the

2:03:20ide portion of the meeting of committee the whole this is infrastructure development and

2:03:26environment we have what has been built as a downtown extravaganza this afternoon

2:03:32and you'll find our process is slightly different than than what we usually do at committee the whole

2:03:39we're going to start the downtown renewal update the whole vision and what I like about being

2:03:47councillor sometimes we look at very immediate things like assigned bylaw and sometimes we look at

2:03:54you know things that are way off in the future like 75 years and this afternoon is a bit of a

2:04:02a mix of those two right so we are going to look at very granular things like our recycling program

2:04:09and waste downtown the collection of waste downtown and recyclables and then we're going to look

2:04:16and the reason that things are in this order is we're looking at where do we need to put these

2:04:20receptacles if this is a solution that we're going to take where are we going to put them

2:04:24okay what's the level of service on those streets what's the plan for downtown to be built in the

2:04:30next period of time to last us another 75 years and then some really practical things around how

2:04:38we're going to use those spaces and and we're a bit back to the discussion that we had last week

2:04:44in terms of provision of basic services around the use of washrooms downtown so you're going to see

2:04:50we're doing this elastic thing where there's immediacy there's longer term planning but all

2:04:55those pieces fit together so we said last week there is no perfect bylaw there is no perfect one

2:05:02piece of the puzzle we're looking at all those pieces together so how are we going to proceed

2:05:07though because we have a lot of motions staff are going to provide one presentation and then we are

2:05:13going to go point by point for delegations and questions on those points and we will take those

2:05:19motions at that time otherwise we're going to have all kinds of amendments on things potentially

2:05:25out of sequence okay so that's how I'm going to chair the meeting and so with that I would invite

2:05:32terry gayman our general manager of engineering and transportation services and his team to present

2:05:38the staff presentation on the downtown renewal okay thank you chair work hello council and members

2:05:46of the public i'm terry gayman the city engineer and general manager of engineering and transportation

2:05:51services we have a large team of city staff and attendance here because we are doing things

2:05:55differently today as you just heard we're bringing you five reports related to downtown to help tell

2:06:00the story of what gulf's future downtown could look like i'm excited to be here working with this

2:06:05talented team of professional staff who are dedicated to making downtown wealth renewal

2:06:09efforts a tremendous connected success and i'd like to thank them in advance for all their hard

2:06:15work to date and knowing that there's much more work ahead of us you're going to hear a lot of

2:06:20information today and we want you to learn about these topics collectively so you can continue to

2:06:25focus on the overall downtown vision and not view each piece in isolation that way we can all focus

2:06:32on how we are achieving our strategic plan vision of making downtown a vibrant place for everyone

2:06:37by creating a beautiful community space through this downtown renewal program that's the strategic

2:06:44council approved direction that we are working towards and it is important to keep in mind as

2:06:49you work through today's content with us as i've said before and i want to resay it today we have a

2:06:54rare once in a generation opportunity to examine and build on the things that we love about downtown

2:06:59guelph the downtown that we build will be beautiful refreshed and modernized and with intentional

2:07:05and responsible planning the work we do today through downtown infrastructure renewal connecting

2:07:10all of the dots and finding all of the opportunities will help us create that foundation for future

2:07:14prosperity sustainability and well-being you know help us create a downtown that is truly for everyone

2:07:21so with that i'm going to turn things over to stacey law from guelph's downtown revitalization

2:07:25officer and i'm going to be back at the end of the presentation to just kind of help us pull things

2:07:28back together stacey thank you terry and uh hello everybody so this afternoon we have five different

2:07:41topics coming together to be presented to you in a comprehensive way so that you council and the public

2:07:48can see how our projects work together to reaching that common goal of a thriving and vibrant downtown

2:07:54guelph so we're going to talk about downtown waste collection including the recycling program

2:07:59transition audit and the future of waste collection the future of downtown waste collection is tied to

2:08:04how we design our future streetscapes as well as contributes to how pedestrians experience those

2:08:10future streetscapes so that leads us into talking about the downtown infrastructure renewal program

2:08:15and more specifically how the future streetscapes will look and how we can achieve improvements to

2:08:20the streetscapes based on what we heard from the public as well as what we heard from council at

2:08:24the workshop in may the disruption that construction will cause and how we can mitigate the impacts of

2:08:31that construction is also an area that we will focus on today particularly construction timing

2:08:37the next topic is improving access to public washrooms and this is related to the downtown

2:08:42infrastructure project because through that project we have the opportunity to install the

2:08:46underground infrastructure needed to support the future installation of public washrooms

2:08:52finally we can all recognize that our downtown has a unique heritage character so in the context

2:08:58of all the upcoming change the downtown heritage conservation district study examines what's

2:09:03important to keep and conserve while still allowing for development to occur finance will help us wrap

2:09:10up our presentation today with some information on how all of these things will impact the budget

2:09:18so even though we are presenting you a lot of information and projects today there's still

2:09:23more to the downtown store downtown story baker district and the construction of the

2:09:28central public library are ongoing the seasonal patio program is in full swing and new projects

2:09:34coming up in the next few months include the downtown building height study and the community

2:09:38planning permit system pilot project i don't recommend seeing that a bunch of times

2:09:45overall we have a lot going on in downtown and i'll reiterate reiterate what mr. gayman said

2:09:50we need to continue to connect all of the dots and find all of the opportunities as we integrate

2:09:55these projects and work towards that common goal of creating a vibrant and prosperous downtown

2:10:00that is welcoming for everyone so the projects being presented will work together to achieve

2:10:08the vision for downtown golf that has enhanced streetscaping particularly along our signature

2:10:13main street windham street north and an enhanced public space in st. george's square

2:10:19significantly improve downtown waste collection options that ensure we don't have litter and

2:10:24garbage on our streets options to provide better access to public washrooms and we've made sure

2:10:30to preserve the important cultural heritage aspects that make downtown wealth unique as you

2:10:36watch this video you can see how our downtown could look mature trees in a combination of soil

2:10:42cells and or open planters generous pedestrian spaces for people to get around and move from

2:10:48business to business opportunities to sit and enjoy the activity occurring space for outdoor

2:10:54patios flat curbs with ballards to allow for flexibility and how we use our downtown streets

2:11:00all in a street that's designed to accommodate all modes of transportation walking biking transit

2:11:06and personal vehicles how do we get there to achieve the enhanced streetscaping that you can see

2:11:13and will be described in more detail later and improved waste collection options throughout

2:11:17downtown an additional capital investment is needed over the next 10 years the total capital

2:11:23investment is anticipated anticipated to be 18.12 million dollars with that i'm going to hand it

2:11:29over to robert general manager of internal audit to talk about the solid waste resources recycling

2:11:34program transition audit thank you stacey and good afternoon before i share the highlights of the

2:11:48results for the solid waste resource recycling program transition value for money audit i want

2:11:55to review some of the key elements of the vfm framework vfm audits ensure accountability transparency

2:12:02and efficiency while assessing if programs and initiatives are achieving their intended outcomes

2:12:07considering the three e's of economy efficiency and effectiveness the objective of the review is to

2:12:14provide an overview of the unit's work from vfm perspective and enable council to understand

2:12:23and assess the value to the community for the services provided economy efficiency and effectiveness

2:12:36are all essential components of sound management the goal of which is to deliver

2:12:40on defined program objectives this means that everyone is responsible for carrying out functions

2:12:46and providing services with due regard for the three e's economy and efficiency are interrelated

2:12:53and play a central role in ongoing program management together these two components support

2:12:58the achievement of value for money and typically will lead to effective outcomes how are the projects

2:13:05for this year's audit selected internal audit met with senior management and discussed possible

2:13:10areas to review factors considered in determining the selected projects included financial impact

2:13:16substantial service area program delivery changes do either to legislation or business decisions

2:13:23impact to citizens and level of impactful decisions made or to be made to achieve the

2:13:28expected outcomes solid waste resources are facing a large-scale alteration in their service

2:13:38deliverables with recent legislative changes to municipal recycling programs the review focused

2:13:45on transitional readiness and included a review of the key risks of resource utilization operational

2:13:51efficiency and adjusting service delivery to citizens focusing focusing on both pre and

2:13:56post optimization in preparation for the upcoming changes and service let's go over the key findings

2:14:02from this audit overall solid waste resource resources is managing the recycling program

2:14:09transition plan in a manner that demonstrates regard for value for money principles by maintaining

2:14:14balance between economy efficiency and effectiveness within the department considering the principle

2:14:20of effectiveness existing service levels for the downtown area should be maintained in 2025

2:14:26doing so will ensure key strategic objectives of diversion and maintaining a vibrant downtown

2:14:31remain on course a user fee option should be evaluated and considered once the blue box

2:14:40transition process is completed this supports the vfm principle of economy lastly supporting

2:14:47efficiency staff should review and finalize the staff transition plan to adjust both

2:14:53departmental organizational structure and staff levels to better align with post transition resource

2:14:58aids i'm going to hand it over now to dr good afternoon everyone the downtown infrastructure

2:15:14renewal program provides a great opportunity to rethink how we manage waste in the downtown

2:15:20note issues of full and overflowing waste containers accessibility challenges related to

2:15:24containers and litter crowding pedestrian right of ways poor waste diversion border concerns

2:15:31possible pest control issues and complaints of poor aesthetics the cause is that the

2:15:35infrastructure used is not fit for purpose detrip is a unique opportunity to provide the

2:15:41infrastructure needed the downtown infrastructure renewal program provides a great opportunity

2:15:46to rethink how we manage waste in the downtown we know that overflowing public space containers

2:15:51do not meet our sanitation or environmental objectives in the downtown and detract from

2:15:56the downtown in general and that we need to better match downtown community needs with capability

2:16:02through design solutions the downtown solid waste management master plan sets strategic

2:16:10direction for solid waste in the downtown recommendations coming out of the plan are

2:16:15litter containers for pedestrians only and the dedicated solution for for waste from properties

2:16:21the plan also provided best practice for little containers which were semi permanent

2:16:25locations three streams together smaller openings clear coloring and labeling

2:16:30further engagement through downtown waste project identified that the preferred solution for

2:16:34properties are underground communal containers which create more capacity without taking up

2:16:39high value street level space applied in dense urban settings more commonly found in europe

2:16:46however there are also examples in kitchener brandford cobec city rally north carolina

2:16:52in clear water florida a key change is providing separate litter containers which promote enhanced

2:16:58sorting for pedestrians and casual users larger volume containers for building waste

2:17:04the advantages are improved sorting and a reduction in the number of public space containers

2:17:09while achieving aesthetic sanitation and environmental objectives the design solution

2:17:16focuses on providing adequate volume for the waste needs for the downtown and is not contingent on

2:17:21who collects the waste based on research and engagement this report proposes 20 clusters of

2:17:29three underground communal containers cited throughout the downtown to serve properties

2:17:35and dispersed with 53 stream litter container stations to serve pedestrians the slide illustrates

2:17:41what the design solution may look like in 10 years the figure is to illustrate density and

2:17:46coverage only actual locations would be determined during the renewal program design work the solution

2:17:54factors an important consideration such as spacing to minimize barriers with respect to use while

2:17:59optimizing the ultimate number of containers needed combination of containers and spacing

2:18:04is to be determined as a team works through the renewal program design and implementation over

2:18:09the 10 year planning horizon the litter containers could be installed at once while using underground

2:18:14container construction would be needed to be phased in with the deterp work the system is

2:18:23expected to cost 1.02 million in capital with three quarters of the cost devoted to the underground

2:18:29containers an associated operating and maintenance increase of $410,000 by full implementation is

2:18:35also expected with about half going to service the new litter containers and half augmenting the

2:18:41existing downtown collection budget to service underground containers this cost could be fully

2:18:47or partially borne by the user fees is recommended by the value for money audit

2:18:51with council's approval we would engage with the community in closing we recommend as our portion

2:18:59of the downtown infrastructure renewal program the council approved an enhanced level of service

2:19:04for waste collection in the downtown including new public space containers and communal underground

2:19:10waste containers i'll now pass it on to red dress one good afternoon committee my name is red dress

2:19:23one the manager of design and construction and engineering but for the purposes of today i'm

2:19:28the downtown infrastructure renewal program manager looking after a series of works that

2:19:34will set the city up for success for many years to come we have two main topics for committee

2:19:40today related to the downtown infrastructure renewal program you will recall in late may

2:19:46we held a council workshop to discuss various streetscape elements and how fast the pace

2:19:51reconstruction downtown gulf so as directive staff have reviewed the input received and prepared a

2:19:59report for committee's consideration so about 10 years ago council adopted a vision and goals

2:20:07for streetscape within the city core due to fiscal challenges a streetscape level of service

2:20:14above good the existing condition has not been fully funded we've heard that enhancements are

2:20:20desired above the good condition but that full implementation of the 2014 streetscape manual

2:20:28best was too expensive to find a balance we explored at our may workshop streetscape options

2:20:36by focusing on the windham corridor you will recall that we talked about good better and best

2:20:41levels of service for streetscape that range from no enhancements beyond existing conditions to full

2:20:47implementations of the aspirations within the 2014 streetscape manual the projected costs range

2:20:54from zero additional investment to 15 million for best now the video showing is the translation

2:21:01of the feedback we heard at the workshop i'll discuss in more detail in a little bit what we

2:21:07learned we should note that since the traffic circle as conceptualized in 2014 is no longer

2:21:14being constructed we do need to circle back and update the place making concept plan for

2:21:19st georgia square to satisfy official plan requirements and moreover gather community

2:21:26input and update that input on the use and aspirations for their downtown gathering up

2:21:32now i'm very much looking forward to seeing this vision actually built and realized will be the

2:21:38something that the city can be proud of for many many years to come so at our may workshop we

2:21:45listened closely to the discussion and heard that council prior prioritized improved tree canopy

2:21:51flexible streets areas for public seating and paving stones to highlight elements

2:21:57you've seen the fly through that turned council's priorities into a visual depiction

2:22:03about the suggested enhanced streetscape for phase one of construction

2:22:08windham street north in st georgia square is estimated to cost 7.5 million dollars now given

2:22:14the limited time we had at our main workshop we focused on the streetscape along the windham

2:22:19corridor we need though to keep in mind that the level of service for streetscaping selected

2:22:25for windham should be reflected in the future downtown reconstruction projects extrapolating

2:22:31through the other five streets in the downtown core slated to get enhanced streetscaping within

2:22:36the draft 10-year capital plan brings the total to 17.1 million so on the continuum of good better

2:22:44and best we're solidly on the upper end of better moving to best we were able to avoid some of the

2:22:51more expensive streetscape elements yet realize the essence of council's priorities so we can't

2:22:58forget though about the additional operation of maintenance costs that comes with an

2:23:02an additional enhanced streetscape investment so based on our records and projections we estimate

2:23:08that the annual on m cost operation maintenance cost to be around four percent of the capital

2:23:13investment now i want to emphasize that the streetscape detailed design is not complete

2:23:20and will be tweaked as the infrastructure design matures regardless staff are committed to staying

2:23:26true to council's priorities and the upset budget provided for enhanced streetscaping

2:23:32well in early 2025 we'll be gathering community feedback when we present the proposed initial

2:23:39design i want to speak a little bit more about street trees now of all the streetscape allowance

2:23:48no one can deny that a mature tree companion canopy will have the biggest visual impact

2:23:54the size and health of trees is directly related to tree selection growing condition

2:24:00and moreover the soil quantity provided you know a fifth or more of a tree is underground

2:24:06bigger trees require larger soil volumes with council streetscape investment staff will use

2:24:13a mix of open soil planters sort of shown on the left hand picture and manufactured soil cells

2:24:20the right hand along with being less expensive than soil cells open planters provide informal

2:24:27public seating opportunities using short retaining walls enable tree grouping for interest and plantings

2:24:35and making space for other works such as waste disposal the pictures depict a flexible street

2:24:43design that increases accessibility and uses bullets to separate traffic from cyclists

2:24:50and now the removable bullets will be used to facilitate our patio program so what's on the

2:24:59screen is the recommendation put forward to committee to enable an enhanced level of streetscape

2:25:04based on the priorities of improved tree companion canopy flexible streets public seating and highlighting

2:25:11paving stones we also wish committee to consider the pace of construction we are presenting two

2:25:22general approaches expedited or slow however there are numerous nuance approaches that can bridge to

2:25:29the extremes expedited or fast paced construction means closing all or good portions of windom

2:25:35streets north and st. George's square to enable the contractor to mobilize several crews on site at

2:25:41the same time and work most efficiently this approach uses two construction seasons 2026 and 2027

2:25:50to complete all the works all reasonable efforts will be taken to minimize the closure of wind

2:25:58windom street staff will use various contractual means to incentivize the contractor to minimize

2:26:04the overall construction time and closures slow paced construction on the other hand breaks the

2:26:10corridor into three stages each taking a year or more to complete so resulting in a total of four

2:26:16to five years the reconstruction of our busy downtown is not a typical city reconstruction

2:26:27project thus requires non-typical construction mitigation staff and the consulting team have

2:26:34been visiting other municipalities who have lived this adventure to learn what worked well and just

2:26:39as importantly what didn't work we've learned that the pace of construction is a key strategy that

2:26:45has direct disruption and financial ramifications for both businesses and the city we feel it's

2:26:52important to minimize the time that customers and residents can't drive the entire length of windom

2:26:58to many one block of windom being closed is the same as the whole street being closed

2:27:03yet in quality real world experience will be critical to a successful project of this nature

2:27:08to this end we've shortlisted contractors that will help us prepare the mitigation and staging

2:27:13plan during design now this is a new tactic for the city's linear infrastructure which we expect

2:27:19to result in time disruption and cost savings equally as important as a good mitigation plan is

2:27:27a good mitigation plan is giving our downtown businesses the opportunity to plan for the disruption

2:27:33with council's direction on the pace of construction we can give just that much more certainty to the

2:27:39businesses on what to expect and also we'll be able to mature our construction mitigation and

2:27:44traffic management plans with one less variable based on feedback from the council workshop in

2:27:55the community the general preference is for expedited construction which as noted allows for

2:28:01minimizing the cumulative construction timeline two years versus five up to five avoiding construction

2:28:08fatigue and burnout by our businesses residents customers realizing economies of scale potentially

2:28:15up to eight hundred fifty thousand dollars less than the slow-paced approach now the expedited

2:28:22approach furthermore unlocks opportunities for residential and commercial intensification

2:28:27by improving our underground infrastructure quicker we recognize that every business will

2:28:34experience the construction the construction disruption differently however we feel that an

2:28:40expedited approach on balance helps most businesses manage construction better and lessens the

2:28:47cumulative impact we're actively engaging with businesses and community as part of our diggable

2:28:54downtown campaign including our recently launched monthly construction cafes to inform businesses

2:29:02and the community at large of the project answer questions and learn more about their challenges

2:29:09regarding the next phases of downtown reconstruction our draft 10-year capital

2:29:14budget follows the model of expedited approach so the recommendation is that council direct

2:29:24staff to prepare the design tender of the windom street north reconstruction to expedited

2:29:30construction with reasonable mitigation measures taken to minimize disruption and road closures

2:29:37thank you vinyanik now to hand off to stacey thank you reg so today we are presenting you the

2:29:49report from wealth lab titled somewhere to go improving access to public washrooms in wealth

2:29:55two members of the research team are also here with me today and will be available to

2:29:59answer questions later on the research generally concludes that access to permanent public washrooms

2:30:06facilities sorry should be increased throughout the city however access to public washrooms in

2:30:12downtown wealth is particularly important the recommendations included in the staff report

2:30:17allow the city to make decisions today that will lay the groundwork for future installation of public

2:30:23washrooms in our downtown and throughout the city so we all need somewhere to go right the researchers

2:30:31talk to people with a wide range of experiences different income levels different ages housed

2:30:38unhoused and almost everyone said they've gone outside at some point access to washrooms is a

2:30:44human right and is critical for human dignity there are two main reasons why public raw washroom

2:30:51access matters on an individual level it is a matter of preserving dignity and not creating a

2:30:57situation where people are forced to violate social norms and customs by going outdoors on a more

2:31:02macro scale public washrooms allow people to be in public spaces for extended periods of time

2:31:08in comfort public space is vital to the life of cities and washrooms are essential to an inclusive

2:31:15and accessible public space washrooms are necessary for residents and visitors to the city to enjoy

2:31:21events in public squares to travel on public transit and to access parks trails outdoor

2:31:26rinks splash pads and other public amenities access to washrooms is a complex issue with

2:31:33different consequences for different people the effects of not having access to a washroom can

2:31:39range from mild discomfort to social social isolation to humiliation through the research the

2:31:45needs of different people for washroom began to emerge while this list is not extensive some

2:31:50general groups with differing needs began to emerge including people experiencing homelessness

2:31:56people with disabilities or medical conditions people who don't work jobs in one location such

2:32:01as drivers of all kinds who move around the city throughout the day such as taxi drivers uber

2:32:07or lift drivers canada post drivers bus drivers and also people who are visiting the city so today

2:32:17we've talked a lot about creating a vibrant and thriving future downtown we've also just talked

2:32:22about public washrooms being important for everyone and vital to creating inclusive accessible

2:32:27and well-used public spaces we currently have a notable lack of access downtown to public washrooms

2:32:34on a sunday afternoon in downtown gulf you only have access to one set of permanent washrooms

2:32:39and that's in market square and only when the waiting pool or skating rink is operating in

2:32:45downtown gulf we have experienced the consequences of not having 24 7 access to public washrooms

2:32:51those consequences are that people sometimes have to go outside this can be embarrassing for

2:32:55that person and also has created aesthetic and sanitary concerns and it was this very issue

2:33:01that led staff to contacting gulf lab for input so based on the research conducted by gulf lab

2:33:09a minimum of two public washrooms are recommended for downtown for one washroom staff are recommending

2:33:15that an autonomous prefabricated self-cleaning public washroom be considered these types of

2:33:20public washrooms have recently been installed in surrounding municipalities including allora

2:33:25waterloo and st catharines these types of units offer many different options including options to

2:33:31address accessibility needs and provide access to drinking water both of which are important

2:33:36considerations for our community staff are recommending that the under grounding infrastructure

2:33:41to support an autonomous prefabricated self-cleaning public washroom be installed through the

2:33:46downtown infrastructure renewal work the second washroom being recommended for downtown should

2:33:53address the needs of people experiencing homelessness sometimes a public public washroom is needed to

2:33:58address a range of purposes including personal care and hygiene access to a washroom that fulfills

2:34:05these needs is being pursued by a working group called the provision of basic needs for people

2:34:10experiencing homelessness working group this is a group that was established as a result of the

2:34:15health and housing symposium that was hosted by the county of wellington earlier this year

2:34:21the work being done by members of this group and the county of wellington will continue to reshape

2:34:25the ways in which services such as access to toilets showers warmth and food are delivered to

2:34:31ensure more basic needs are accessible to all community members the research also concluded

2:34:38with recommendations to improve citywide access to public washrooms which include winterizing park

2:34:44washrooms so that they can be used all year round improving signage and information by including

2:34:49public washrooms in the city's wayfinding strategy improving inclusion and accessibility by ensuring

2:34:55that there is a gender neutral and accessible option when providing public washroom facilities

2:35:00and planning for future public washroom facilities as part of future capital projects such as parks

2:35:05or public buildings and with that I will hand it over to jack good afternoon chair and members of

2:35:22council I am jack mallon heritage planner and it is my privilege to bring for your consideration

2:35:27the recommendations of the downtown guelph heritage conservation district study I would like to thank

2:35:33the project team from archaeological services inc for their hard work throughout this project

2:35:38I've learned a lot from working alongside such skilled and passionate heritage professionals

2:35:44to begin what is a heritage conservation district a heritage conservation district is a

2:35:51geographically defined area with distinct heritage character that is protected by municipal bylaw

2:35:56under the Ontario heritage act designation allows the city to protect heritage buildings and guide

2:36:03change in the district through the conservation protection and enhancement of the area's special

2:36:08character heritage conservation district project is divided into two phases the study phase and the

2:36:17development of a plan and guideline we are now at the halfway mark and if you approve the study's

2:36:22recommendations we will enter into the second phase of the project and begin developing a plan and

2:36:27guideline the study area was identified in the cultural heritage action plan as the old downtown

2:36:35cultural heritage candidate landscape and roughly captures the historic commercial core of the

2:36:41downtown community engagement is integral to the success of a heritage conservation district study

2:36:49the study's engagement program encouraged active discussions with community members and property

2:36:54owners and provided various opportunities to participate in the process and provide comments

2:36:58and feedback a range of engagement sessions have been held throughout the study to ensure that we

2:37:04cast as wide a net as possible to hear from citizens with diverse perspectives this included two open

2:37:10houses two walking tours two have your say surveys as well as two mail-outs property owners businesses

2:37:17and residents additionally we engage with mississauga's of the credit first nation and six

2:37:22nations of the grand river and received valuable feedback and advice feedback focused on how people

2:37:31experience the downtown the character of the downtown and boundaries of the district the map

2:37:38on the screen shows the boundaries proposed during public open houses and through the have your say

2:37:42surveys evaluation of the cultural heritage value of a prospective heritage conservation district

2:37:50is based on the entero heritage act and guided by the ministry of citizenship and multiculturalism's

2:37:56heritage toolkit a heritage district must have a concentration of heritage buildings and landscapes

2:38:04a framework of structured elements such as street design and building locations a sense of visual

2:38:10coherence a distinctiveness which enables districts to be recognized and distinguishable from

2:38:16surrounding areas and lastly 25 of the properties in the district must meet two or more of the

2:38:23criteria required for individual designation under the entero heritage act our study found that

2:38:31approximately 68 of the buildings in guelphs downtown met two or more of the criteria the study

2:38:38concluded that downtown is visually distinct from its surroundings it encompasses nearly all of john

2:38:45galt's original 1827 radial plan it includes interconnected collection of historically

2:38:51significant and finely executed buildings streetscapes and landscape features and it demonstrates

2:38:58the evolution of guelph from a small settlement on the shores of the speed river to a thriving

2:39:03community and center for industry and commerce in the heart of a highly productive agricultural region

2:39:10after extensive historical research consultation with the heritage committee in general public

2:39:16and engagement with first nations we are recommending a boundary that encompasses nearly all of

2:39:20john galt's radial plan as well as a portion of the river between mcdonnell and aramosa

2:39:28the proposed district is roughly bounded by fountain street to the east gordon and north

2:39:33folk streets to the south and west and woollich street and the speed river to the north

2:39:38as a heritage planner in the city citizens are constantly reminding me of the demolitions that

2:39:44occurred downtown in the 1960s and 70s especially in st george's square provincial changes to the

2:39:51entero heritage act through bill 23 will remove heritage status from many of the heritage buildings

2:39:56in our downtown at the end of 2026 leaving them vulnerable to demolition this heritage

2:40:04this heritage district presents us with a unique opportunity to learn from the mistakes of the past

2:40:10a heritage district will ensure that our most valuable built heritage resources

2:40:14and cultural heritage landscapes are thoughtfully conserved in a manner that will allow us to grow

2:40:19and develop our downtown in the coming decades this step in the heritage conservation district

2:40:25process is just to affirm the boundary and to receive direction from council to proceed to

2:40:29the second phase of the project the development of a planning guideline the designation of the

2:40:35area will not occur until the planning guidelines are complete chair and members of council i advise

2:40:42that you approve the recommendations of the district study and that you direct staff to

2:40:46prepare a planning guideline for a downtown golf heritage conservation district thank you okay so

2:40:59the enhanced design and amenity decisions that are part of the discussion today create a new

2:41:05procedural consideration when there are budget implications attached to policy decisions staff

2:41:10have been discussing the best way to handle these types of situations under the new uh strong mayor

2:41:15budget landscape in the past council had the authority to direct investments be included in

2:41:21the budget at the time the policy was considered this created a mechanism for staff to track

2:41:26budget additions capped and then capture them in the draft budget um however now with the

2:41:32budget development authority uh changing our historical approach needs to change to reflect

2:41:37our new way of business in the event that a project didn't get included in the budget council still

2:41:42has the ability and the authority to add that investment into the budget but it now happens

2:41:47through the amendment process so for the reason the motions included in the reports today are very

2:41:53intentional and they ask council to approve the policy decision only and that it will then only

2:41:59be implemented if the project is adopted during the budget it's important for council to provide

2:42:04the policy direction and it helps staff and the mayor to understand the level of support that there

2:42:09is to include the investment in the budget in some cases where reserve funds are sufficient to fund

2:42:15an in-year financial decision like just happened last week on august 28th council does have the

2:42:21authority to direct the use of reserves in year in the case before you tonight uh and given the

2:42:28outstanding motion passed by council to balance the capital plan within available revenues that's

2:42:33not possible and these projects will then uh these project increases will need to be considered with

2:42:39the full capital budget in november um so next slide please uh in summary the downtown renewal

2:42:49project enhancements including or sorry excluding the public washrooms will cost 18.1 million in

2:42:57the capital budget and this is a new cost that was not included in the capital forecast adopted by

2:43:02council last november i will note that in budget development discussions to date the mayor has

2:43:08supported this staff recommended streetscaping investment and that's currently being built

2:43:13into the budget given the council direction to balance the capital plan as an outcome from

2:43:19uh the budget meeting in addition to the the the mayoral direction um that we're currently working

2:43:26within our fiscal capacity is constrained and so council will expect to see project deferrals to

2:43:32make room for this investment um the details of all of these project deferrals uh are not yet

2:43:39finalized so i do want to say that and we so we can't provide them today but we will be um as part of

2:43:46the november and the the budget uh process they will be available uh in october from an operating

2:43:53budget perspective staff are estimating a total uh operating budget increase of uh 1.09 million

2:44:01over the 10-year period it would not all occur in one year these are the best estimates we can

2:44:06provide you right now given the streetscape design is not complete um and the the consultants have

2:44:12estimated that that'll be um the operating costs including capital maintenance and replacement

2:44:19to be about four percent of our capital investment the solid waste operating costs could be reduced

2:44:25in the future also depending upon the outcome of the user fee review work as previously discussed

2:44:32and so all of these changes will be worked into the updates to the budget in future years as

2:44:36appropriate once the infrastructure is built and implemented thank you we're just about there

2:44:51you've heard a substantial amount of information no doubt and you know probably digested even more

2:44:57as you've gone through the staff reports over the preceding days so i just want to take a moment

2:45:01to distill it all back and help you answer the question of what is council actually being asked

2:45:05to do today so again our strategic plan directs staff to make downtown a vibrant place for everyone

2:45:11by creating a beautiful community space through this downtown renewal program the various elements

2:45:17you heard about today consistently be summarized you're being asked to approve waste collection

2:45:22for downtown including new container systems streetscaping levels of service based on your

2:45:26feedback during the spring council workshop fast-paced construction to reduce risk support

2:45:32businesses and get downtown renewal done as quickly as possible future installations of public

2:45:37washrooms downtown and throughout the city and affirm the boundary for downtown heritage conservation

2:45:43district while directing staff to start phase two of that important project and when you package

2:45:48that set of work together you're directing staff to take aligned steps towards achieving

2:45:53Guelph's downtown renewal vision and we started today's presentation highlighting that we need

2:46:00to connect all the dots and find all the opportunities as we integrate these projects and work towards

2:46:05a common goal of creating a vibrant and prosperous downtown as we end the presentation we hope you

2:46:10can see how these projects have been integrated to help us achieve that goal we cannot emphasize

2:46:16enough how important downtown is to Guelph we recognize that we are facing challenges today

2:46:20and there will be challenges along the way especially during construction in order to get

2:46:24there but if we continue to work together we can achieve the beautiful prosperous downtown

2:46:28that is welcoming and thriving for everyone now and well into Guelph's future so that is it on

2:46:34behalf of the team thank you for your attention and we'll conclude our presentation great thank you

2:46:45all right so um the first item is a solid waste resources recycling program transition audit

2:46:53I need somebody to move that recommendation for receipt Councillor Goller and Councillor Allt

2:46:59is seconding are there any questions of staff oh Councillor Klassen yep you're allowed doesn't

2:47:07have to be quick you go far uh yes through you uh chair or work uh to staff just had a quick

2:47:14question with regard to the rollout of the um oh wait maybe this is for the next one

2:47:18sorry it is I got the mixed flexible yeah this is for the wrong person though I'm so sorry

2:47:24actually Mr. Jalasek and uh Mr. Walsh are both sitting there and so I think they can okay they

2:47:30can roll with it all right thank you sorry about that um I just had a question regarding the roll

2:47:36out of the underground containers and the timeline uh would it follow the timeline for the whole of

2:47:42the renewal for you Madam Chair I think I'm sort of classing yes that's exactly right

2:47:49great thank you that's all any other questions for Mr. Jalasek

2:47:56so I have one um we know that producer responsibility we know where the ends for

2:48:03Guelph the Guelph is getting out of the blue box program January 1st 2025 right and that then circular

2:48:10materials will collect more things from residential um homes um so I'm wondering the recommendation

2:48:20is extending recycling collection to downtown for 2025 but is that only for the one year so

2:48:28are we going to provide a service the city is going to provide a recycling collection

2:48:32service downtown correct me if I'm wrong anywhere here right because I keep thinking I got it figured

2:48:38out and I keep figuring out that it's not quite there so we're going to extend the service to

2:48:43downtown that is not elsewhere in the city but then we're going to pull back after one year so

2:48:49can you just help me help me understand what in practical terms this recommendation does

2:49:00pardon me um yeah in essence in the value for money audit report it mentioned that um there's a gap

2:49:08relative to the ICI sector uh provincially relative to the organic relative to the framework

2:49:12sorry for the waste front aerial act um this this allows us the time to transition uh and understand

2:49:18better um the ineligible component so there's there's a component of the downtown that's

2:49:24that's missing in this transition and that's the ineligible materials for 160 000 dollars we're

2:49:29able to then provide that service move forward with a user fee uh option assessment

2:49:38while continuing to advocate with our with our industry partners to address the gap that exists

2:49:43in the ICI sector um but yes at the end of 2025 if we don't have a solution for these folks they

2:49:50will be transitioned but transitioned in a way that's in a timeline that's much more kind uh

2:49:58relative to just abruptly transitioning currently so so that's what we're trying to do um we all

2:50:03only just recently found out who our collection um uh partner is uh so that's it that's also a factor

2:50:11in the timing as well so it's really about an orderly transition in in waiting or working to

2:50:18better understand this gap of the ineligible sources in the downtown specifically relative to the

2:50:23constraints of the downtown if that's helpful okay and so to you I guess for me um and it's

2:50:32recognizing that any ICI business organization outside the downtown may have facilities that make

2:50:41it easier for waste collection right so we're trying to figure out what is unique downtown

2:50:45that is exactly it uh councillor work the downtown is unique so we have uh through the master plan

2:50:51created service levels uh and and harmonize that uh outside the downtown the downtown is unique

2:50:58the space constraints and the fact that we have communal containers that are collecting currently

2:51:03eligible and ineligible sources and as we as through the uh downtown infrastructure renewal

2:51:09presentation that you just uh observed um our infrastructure does not support delineating this

2:51:15material uh effectively at this current time and that's why it's a bit of a deeper dive um

2:51:21that we're suggesting uh council approve uh to do this in a more planned way that's cognizant of

2:51:27those constraints okay and then my last question is the $96,000 for the study for user fees or what

2:51:35that model will look like that's not that's just to look at it that's not an approval of a user fee

2:51:41for a drop-off at the waste management resource center right that's correct that that is to do

2:51:47the study to determine essentially what funding models uh may be considered to be brought forward

2:51:53for consideration um it's it's also um to verify uh that um a user fee could be something that's

2:52:02considered at the drop-off uh should there be no options for um depot operations moving forward

2:52:09as well so we would verify that but the primary focus is on developing the funding models for the

2:52:14downtown options relative to the the infrastructure uh you've just seen uh this this afternoon okay

2:52:22thanks very much any other questions oh oh shoot okay all right uh councillor Allt

2:52:30katin gibson thank you very much my my question is as much a comment as anything uh for mr

2:52:38gelasek um mr gelasek when we talked about this uh as when i was as as chair of audit committee

2:52:44one of the things that uh flagged for me was the issue of user fees which i think because

2:52:50there is a political connotation to that should be a concern to all of council uh would you please

2:52:56unpack what it is that we are talking about as this might cause concern for uh residents and

2:53:03businesses downtown as well uh thank you uh through the chair to uh councillor Allt uh again the the

2:53:11focus or the recommendation in the audit is not that user fees be implemented but that the study

2:53:17be conducted to consider user fees as an option um in the in my opinion and from a value for money

2:53:26perspective user fees balance the three e's within value for money so the economy piece the efficiency

2:53:32piece and the effectiveness piece um and so that's why the recommendation is around consideration of

2:53:39user fee um additionally other municipalities and our comparators are utilizing user fees as well

2:53:47for this uh and have done so uh and so the recommendation again is to consider it not to

2:53:52implement it thank you very much i think that was very appropriately framed uh again i will caution

2:53:59my colleagues that people are going to be concerned when they even hear about a study about user fees

2:54:09thank you the recommendation on the floor really just is for receipt and i think it's been clear

2:54:14mr gelastic um that it's the study to look at what those options might be okay uh councillor Caton

2:54:21thank you through you chair uh to mr gelastic are the um receptacles in the underground

2:54:28considered for apartment residents and businesses uh through the chair to councillor Caton i'm going

2:54:35to let cam reply to that uh we would apartments would be part of our multi residential program

2:54:43these would be for buildings in the downtown so it would be a blend of both thank you and another

2:54:50question through uh the chair we saw that there's only three of them um all right is the capacity

2:54:57sort of set up for our current height limits on buildings or are we planning for growth yeah

2:55:08councillor Caton that's a question for mr walch um at the next one but i think there's 20 actually

2:55:13of the in-ground one and then a number of um sidewalk ones great thank you very much okay oh

2:55:23councillor gibson thank you through you chair or work my questions are for staff basically on this

2:55:32entire package but this one is just for receipt the rest of them are for approval so maybe i'll wait

2:55:37for the next item to ask my questions to staff on the sort of the complete package

2:55:4310.1.2 all the way down to 10.1.5 so i'll i'll wait thank you okay uh councillor Goller and then

2:55:51councillor billings thank you and through you chair orc i i think this question has been asked

2:55:58but i think i did not understand the answer um we are transitioning to the pros we'll manage this

2:56:07will they collect the underground recycling a year from now or is there a scenario where the city

2:56:16will have to continue collecting from those underground containers because you required

2:56:21specialized equipment to pick it up thank you councillor Goller um the uh the system is designed

2:56:31to be agnostic relative to who provides the service so it's about creating the creating the space for

2:56:38recycling uh they would continue to pick it up from those receptacles we would continue to pick

2:56:44up from the other receptacles but it's it's meant to be just about um irrelevant in terms of who is

2:56:51picking up so so but in vision that they would pick it up yes okay okay so it's going to be

2:56:56designed in such a way that the whoever ends up doing recycling will be able to pick it up with

2:57:03whatever vehicles they have correct okay thank you thank you chair okay and councillor billings

2:57:12i just wanted to be clear about like the user fee whenever that report comes back

2:57:19if council were to um approve some form of a user fee whether it be partial is it still in time

2:57:27though with respect to the 410 000 that you're asking for to to mitigate that so i'm not really

2:57:35clear as to for 2025 are you asking for the 410 in 2025 or the 160 or what are you specifically

2:57:45asking for for 2025 under operating uh through madam chair to councillor billings um the 160 is

2:57:57a one-time uh asked to just support the transition really and relative to the ineligible sources

2:58:03the 410 i believe uh operating cost is over a 10-year period right so it so there is absolutely

2:58:09time to uh to have a user fee study influence the outcome of that and then when do you think

2:58:15through you madam chair that that report would come back i would think in probably q3 of of next

2:58:24year okay thanks cam okay i don't see any other questions so i would like to call a vote on 10.1.1

2:58:36which is strictly that the solid waste resources recycling program transition audit be received

2:58:43okay i'm calling the vote any opposed councillor all are you opposed no okay no one is opposed to

2:58:52that passes unanimously terrific thank you all right we started to broach 10.1.2 downtown

2:58:59collection area update that last question was with respect to some of those costs um and so

2:59:06are there any questions or sorry i need somebody to table i need somebody to table the recommendation

2:59:14mayor guthrie and councillor Goller are there any questions for staff councillor gibson

2:59:21yeah thank you through you chair rick so uh this is a common question but it's through to

2:59:2710.1.2 the wall all the way through so most of these items now moving forward have budget

2:59:32olympications did hear staff mention in the end of their presentation i think it's upwards of 18

2:59:3818 million dollars will be added to the capital budget this year um and the consequence of that

2:59:45will be deferrals on projects um respectfully i'm really hesitant to approve these things these

2:59:54items without understanding what those deferrals look like i only say that because selfishly i'll

3:00:01say this out loud i i'm nervous about the one major capital project that's been waiting

3:00:07for roads in the east end which is your road i do not want to be seen voting for deferrals today

3:00:15not knowing what they are only to find out in a few months that your growth gets pushed out another

3:00:2010 years so i would like some assurance from staff if they can't give that to me then i unfortunately

3:00:25won't be able to support these items today so i'm only i'm only asking this because we have

3:00:38gone through this exercise before where we we approve things mid-year only to get the sticker

3:00:42shock or shell shock that budget is what it actually means when we get the full picture

3:00:46and then we end up arguing at budget so i'd like to just have that clarification today thank you

3:00:51councillor gibson um is bakers at the podium and she can answer your question um so uh through the

3:00:57chair to councillor gibson i would say specifically to your project that you've just mentioned um we

3:01:05have been working alongside the mayor um prioritizing uh growth related uh capital projects that are

3:01:14going to uh create the capacity for housing in the downtown in g id in particular uh are in the uh in

3:01:24prioritization and so i can say that uh there is no impact on york for york road um and i can say

3:01:30that confidently right now um i would say though that we are not done and so to to um get into

3:01:39a lot of different project details right now would be really difficult to respond in the moment

3:01:45but i i can confirm that york road has not been uh impact okay that gets me about 50 there thank you

3:01:55i i do appreciate the work the staff have done to prepare the report and the prioritization

3:02:01of what we want to do downtown i still i'm struggling with not knowing what's being deferred

3:02:07and i and i also respect that staff aren't prepared to give us that answer today

3:02:11i just we've been through this type of exercise before and um i just it just makes me very nervous

3:02:18not seeing the full picture before approving this type of budget prioritization um maybe i'll just

3:02:25leave it at that and i'll wait for the next items one by one to come up if i have specific items

3:02:31that i want to ask questions about good that's how it works great well

3:02:36councillor oh sorry can't start yeah miss baker could if i could uh through through the chair

3:02:43i would just like to confirm though that um we're really looking for a policy decision today the

3:02:49budget piece of this this will not get approved um and implemented until the budget decision that is

3:02:58later this year so really today is about the policies this the level of streetscaping for

3:03:04example that council uh wants in the downtown like that's really from a staff perspective what

3:03:12we're trying to get confirmation on it's really important that we have policy decisions that then

3:03:17lead into budget so that we know what to capture at the time of budget and so i just want to say

3:03:23that out loud the the the waste receptacle receptacles is another one what is the design what is the

3:03:29policy what do you want in the downtown and then we'll be able to have the wholesome discussion

3:03:34at budget and and i can um i can confidently say you will see all the details about what has changed

3:03:42from last year's adopted budget and so you'll have that wholesome discussion um in october

3:03:48november thank you very much miss baker okay any other uh councillor gibson did you have more

3:03:55questions on 10.1.2 which is strictly the downtown collection area okay just wanted to say those

3:04:01things and thank you miss baker for your answers i don't see any other questions on 10.1.2 so i'm

3:04:09going to call the vote on that is anyone opposed okay see no one opposed that is unanimous thank you

3:04:33so the clerks office informs me that they're unable to get a hold of our delegate so what i'd like to

3:04:39do is to ask uh councillor's um clausen and galler to uh to um first and second the 10.1.3

3:04:51recommendations that's downtown streetscape level of service and construction mitigation

3:04:56and we'll go right to uh questions from councillors and we'll give staff an opportunity to uh come

3:05:03forward and when we have miss Watson on the line we can proceed with her delegation okay

3:05:10so i'll start the speaker list on 10.1.3 the main event today yeah

3:05:15councillor Klassen you go ahead yes thank you i've got a few notes here so might be a couple

3:05:22of little comments in there um i just i want to say thank you to the staff um for all your work on

3:05:28this i've spent a lot of time with you and i know you've spent way more than i have on this

3:05:33particularly around the various types of public engagement that you've done um i've seen you out

3:05:38in the community i know others have too um so so thank you for that i think it means a lot to the

3:05:44community um so i i want to emphasize something that i think uh perhaps maybe some of the businesses

3:05:51downtown will will agree with as well which is the timeline like i really appreciate the shortening

3:05:58the timeline um it is a challenge and i appreciate the work you've done to connect with other communities

3:06:04to ensure that we have as little impact to to folks as possible um i do have a question with

3:06:13regard to the construction mitigation so i know that you've connected with a lot of people already

3:06:18but how can people continue to connect with you i'm sure that there's you know that you haven't

3:06:22talked to everyone quite yet and will there be more opportunities as we go forward through you

3:06:29uh madam chair um yes lots of opportunities we are i talked earlier about our diggable

3:06:37downtown campaign that that isn't going to be ongoing throughout the rest of the fall and

3:06:42through next year as well um with in there continually will be outreach opportunities and uh

3:06:49and uh uh chances for for folks to ask us questions or give us concerns and as you

3:06:57where we're doing the monthly construction cafes so uh we're at canoes in next the september the

3:07:0419th um so please uh anybody that's interested can come there and discuss in the morning and

3:07:11get a coffee and we'll have a chat so we're going to do those monthly cafes as an opportunity just

3:07:16a standing date for anybody to show up that wants to talk to us okay great and then on a related

3:07:24note just overall to this this renewal project so in the municipalities this is a general question

3:07:30how often do we have this type of renewal process in downtown's underground reconstruction

3:07:43underground works last you know in that 70 to 80 ours is over 100 years old um the last

3:07:51but the surface works often you get 20 25 30 years out of them uh the last time there was a

3:07:57significant work on wind them was in the 80s and we've got pictures the lovely pictures going back

3:08:02to the 80s looking at the cars and the and the hairdos of the day um the um but that was that was

3:08:10roadworks and a storm sewer we didn't do the majority of the underdown now we're doing the

3:08:15underground and it's time to do the the road surfaces again so all our infrastructure has

3:08:20slightly different life cycles uh where your your road surface and that needs a full rework every

3:08:2625 to 30 years okay great thank you for that um I just wanted to make one note as well just because

3:08:35I don't believe the the correspondence got put into the package but I know that the downtown

3:08:40golf business association um president chuck uh nash he put in a letter to us also supporting the

3:08:48staff recommendations and letting us know that they also appreciated the shortening of the timelines

3:08:53um and uh I just wanted to add that in there as well thank you thank you councillor goller

3:09:03through you chair arc no questions about our comments okay at this time actually uh councillor

3:09:09down first on my list for comments but I'll put you down for comments councillor boostill you had

3:09:13questions thank you very much to the staff for an excellent presentation um you talked about just

3:09:21now about life cycles of infrastructure and you know future focus and so on and at the open house

3:09:28there were questions about the electrification of downtown that us we're ripping up the streets is

3:09:35other plans where did we end up what's the outcome on electrification again thinking about life

3:09:42cycles and future focus is that part of this project is it incremental or are we going to be

3:09:47back at this place again in a couple of years to electrify downtown yet we are in

3:09:57throughout our all our engagement we've talked about what are what are people wanting regarding

3:10:02electrifications or other services throughout the downtown so that is on the list and we're also

3:10:07having discussions with electra right now too on on what we're doing for servicing downtown

3:10:13the and when you're talking about electrification I've seen you're talking about like EV charging

3:10:18in that so we are having those conversations with uh we're getting into that now we're at that stage

3:10:24of the of the works we're going to start talking more details about what do we actually want to

3:10:29put in the in the final design um so this definitely on our list but we have to understand

3:10:39the want for that right now it's not in our program of works per se and we're having those

3:10:45discussions with electra to see if there's a demand or driver for it thank you and and just

3:10:54a supplemental so what you're saying is that it's it's not actionable right now uh in your work plan

3:11:01and what i'm not clear on is i mean we're talking about future and and infrastructure digging up

3:11:07the roads and so on what i'm not clear on is um is this something that electra is a partner on and

3:11:14saying yes we see the future this is you know something that we want to do downtown and we

3:11:19do not want to be digging up downtown again in five years or is it dovetailing or is it yeah so

3:11:25so i maybe wasn't that clear but we were in our conversations with electra we're at we're talking

3:11:31about putting extra ductworks in the ground that maybe not erecting the you know the charging

3:11:38stations or whatever that would be but we're going to have the ductwork there ready to go

3:11:42when somebody or there's some driver to install the charging stations on the roads we're having

3:11:49those conversations it's it's it's it's easy it's cheap relatively to put lots of ducts in the ground

3:11:55to fish wires in the future um the but we we haven't had a driver for a designer like what do we

3:12:06want for ev charging stations for an example along the the corridor yet mr game i would like to add

3:12:15something yeah yeah and maybe just a few other general things for for council's awareness with

3:12:20respect to all of our utility partners we're having those conversations with them now so that

3:12:25they understand that their needs to service qualms populations think about downtown and the

3:12:29growth that we have coming what do they need to have installed now what do they need us to install

3:12:33so that they can come later what are those elements is all part of the ongoing discussion so that

3:12:38exactly what you're getting at council we're not ripping up brand new infrastructure we'll

3:12:42have those same conversations as it relates to development and growth for anything that we know

3:12:47at the time that we can design so we're going to maximize and optimize as much of that as we possibly

3:12:53can thank you okay i have a couple questions and we'll go to comments um

3:13:02can staff confirm for me that the 17.1 is both the upgrade and expediting the work on both

3:13:10windham and mcdonnell to you uh madam chair the 17.1 is the enhanced streetscaping for all the

3:13:21future downtown projects within within the within the 10-year capital budget so and to

3:13:29specifically to your question yes so what we are proposing within the 10-year capital budget

3:13:36is expedited construction on windham mcdonnell and i'm going to draw a blank on what the next

3:13:44phase is but all the way through our 10 years

3:13:49yeah so that is yeah yeah okay my other question is i'm i'm curious uh why we have the same level

3:13:59of service on the secondary streets as well so it's not clear to me are we saying we've got the

3:14:05same level of service on baker and you know some of the smaller streets than we have on windham

3:14:13and mcdonnell which are sort of the showcase streets and why would that be uh to you madam

3:14:19chair what we've done when we say we extrapolated the level of service um that is sort of designed

3:14:25for windham street is to do that generally in accordance with the direction provided by the

3:14:282014 streetscape manual so you'll see it's sort of our signature streets are windham mcdonnell

3:14:34you'll see streets like cobec and douglas because they're smaller have a slightly different level

3:14:40of service but it's sort of generally in the same tone and keeping there but you won't see

3:14:45like the separated cycle lanes and all of that so we've used the guidance provided by the 2014

3:14:50streetscape manual to help extrapolate what you see for windham street and apply it to those other

3:14:54streets okay um my next question is uh i heard mr resworm say um what was best originally now

3:15:04we're sort of at the upper end of better so the motion on good better best was mine it was a reaction

3:15:08to the cost of the uh streetscaping in a budget a couple years ago so have we refined a little

3:15:14bit what that's going to be like if we have we come down a little bit from what that original

3:15:19estimate was you madam chair uh yes since even since the workshop we've been continually working

3:15:28on the cost estimates and and uh and in refining the cost of that work and and digging into those

3:15:37details so we're very confident in the numbers we're putting forward right now we were probably

3:15:43a little conservative at the workshop but the the probably the single biggest thing we're not seeing

3:15:50in the proposal today that was in the best is paving stones throughout the all the street all the

3:15:55traveled area that's very expensive because essentially you got to build a concrete road

3:16:00underneath and then put paving stones on top so otherwise you'll have the movement like we have

3:16:04out in cardin street so that's the single biggest item so once you pull that out it drops significantly

3:16:11and the other thing is we've done is we backed off on the numbers trees within soil cells and we're

3:16:17you making better use of a mix of the of the uh the planters but those were probably the two biggest

3:16:24items where we could pull back on the level of service quote unquote but yet achieve the priorities

3:16:32council voiced okay thank you and then my last one is with respect to those trees so everybody in

3:16:37the council consultation loved the trees when are we going to see what the allowed building

3:16:45heights are downtown because when i'm sitting in downtown toronto or walking there where they're

3:16:51all tall buildings it's unpleasant it's shady the trees don't grow and it's windy so are we going

3:16:58to invest in this beautiful downtown and then have building heights that don't you know that don't

3:17:04match what these beautiful images are so how does the building height work with the enough sunlight

3:17:10for those trees to to grow and to create the streetscape that we want uh thank you for that

3:17:16question so first of all the downtown building height study we do expect some recommendations

3:17:21early in 2025 as we're working through that process um there are several things that differentiate our

3:17:28downtown streets um from toronto first of all our streets are relatively short and wide compared

3:17:34to toronto's which are sort of longer more narrow corridors so with that it allows that access to

3:17:40sunlight for trees and people um also balancing out you know future building heights with the

3:17:46downtown heritage conservation district um study recommendations we wouldn't expect to see sort of

3:17:51like big giant rows of new towers built we do want to protect that downtown heritage character

3:17:58that we have so those are two sort of significant inputs into our downtown that would still allow

3:18:05for those trees to grow even if we do have some additional building height moving forward excellent

3:18:10thank you and good segue to one of our next okay councillor billings question through you

3:18:18madam chair in the recommendation like improved tree canopy flexible streets public seating

3:18:23paving stones and uh and a design that optimizes public space for the most efficient operating

3:18:29budget so we heard the operating budget would be around um a four percent now that's a four percent

3:18:36increase what we currently have in the budget that's the way i'm reading it is that correct

3:18:42yes councillor billings that is correct okay so and that's quite that's quite an operating increase

3:18:51so what's driving most of that increase is it actually the paving stones the when we went

3:19:05through that exercise around c o and m costs um markably everything came out to around four percent

3:19:12be it street trees or paving stones or or i guess those are probably the two biggest line

3:19:19items on that list but we're right around that four percent mark so it's it's very linear when it

3:19:27comes to the capital budget with respect to what the o and m costs will be the so if we wish to

3:19:34uh remove bring down the o and m costs we bring down the capital cost remember we're only talking

3:19:41about capital costs it's not four percent on the entire operating budget it's it's on the piece we add

3:19:47which is when you look at the overall operating budget i'm sure that number can be produced but

3:19:51it's it's it's much smaller but isn't it around like what you're asking four percent of the 17 no

3:19:59yes it's four percent of the 17 so it's four percent of the capital of the capital budget

3:20:05should be allocated annually within the operating budget to take care of the streetscape okay so

3:20:11through you madam chair then i'm i'm still not clear then because the four percent and then in

3:20:15the presentation it was 18.1 mil so four percent still isn't a mil so so where's the 18 what's the

3:20:24difference in the 18 to the 17.1 so when you look at the overall when you include the the solid waste

3:20:33and the streetscaping together it becomes 18 okay the solid waste has their own o and m cost associated

3:20:39with it and then operating on top of that then right so then the operating is on top of that

3:20:46the four percent

3:20:47okay well for the streetscaping it's at four percent i don't want to quote the uh

3:20:53the the the solid waste report but there's a number in there as well that talks to the operating costs

3:20:59okay thanks for the clarity okay i'm going to go to comments and i've got councillor downer

3:21:07councillor Goller margothry other comments council class okay okay thank you through you

3:21:19madam chair so yes i want to echo councillor class and say about appreciating the work that

3:21:25staff have done i'm a board member of the downtown the dgba and i know they have appreciated the work

3:21:33and engagement that they've had on this project and there's a letter of support for the the

3:21:39streetcape i also want to appreciate how our staff have reflected what i thought from the workshop

3:21:47that we had in may that from all the comments it looks like you know i was a little concerned

3:21:52about that but i'm glad how you've incorporated it and come out somewhere between better and

3:21:58best and found ways to to say funds as well while still looking quite uh quite spectacular i think

3:22:07and i i'm quite happy around the trees i always want to talk about trees you know i know the

3:22:12modular soil cells i actually prefer more open planters to those anyway i think the more

3:22:19downtowns i've been through that have been me done dug bell bill and all kinds of other places

3:22:24wiring recently those i think they look better um than than many others so i'm quite happy with that

3:22:33i also want to say that you know in our downtown is a gem and it's recognized as that outside of

3:22:40guelph by when i was on the destination destination next committee the tourism committee um a couple

3:22:47years ago and the the consultants on the work they did you know finding guelph's reputation that's

3:22:55the way it's viewed outside of guelph we've got one of the best platforms and stages in our

3:23:00downtown for cultural events and for tourism and you only get an opportunity like this um we've heard

3:23:08anywhere from 30 to 50 years to to redo that stage and redo that platform to enhance tourism

3:23:15to enhance not just people coming in but people in the city using the downtown more and and wanting to

3:23:23you know attend cultural events there we saw the potential of that success for our own community

3:23:28with the spirit of the season santa claus parade and how that excited the community to show up

3:23:35downtown by the thousands and so you know i just i want to encourage my colleagues to support this i

3:23:42want to encourage the mayor to keep this um work in the budget um because you know over 10 years when

3:23:49you actually take that as as the letter says you extrapolate that over the lifetime of this work it's

3:23:55it's um it's good work that's what i'll say so thanks okay councillor gollard

3:24:02uh thank you and through you chair work i wanted to echo the sentiments presented by

3:24:10councillor downer and councillor Klassen i i i want to thank staff for all the hard work it

3:24:17really shows and i and i appreciate that it's difficult to make these shifts going from the

3:24:23the status quo the the good level to this enhanced level but i'm hearing from my constituents and

3:24:30we saw the letter from the dgba that supports it so i'm really appreciative in particular to the

3:24:36to the increased tree canopy that we're going to see uh and to the increased pedestrian

3:24:42look and feel of the downtown that is very much appreciated i also wanted to to acknowledge that

3:24:48now that the budget deliberation process has changed a lot of this rests on on the will of

3:24:55mayor guthrie and i wanted to thank the mayor for making sure that this will go ahead as staff

3:25:01mentioned so that we can have a downtown that we are going to be proud of thank you okay mayor guthrie

3:25:13thank you madam chair i just first of all wanted to say that this was probably one of the best

3:25:21laid out agenda items in sequence and rolling out the presentation today that i think i've ever seen

3:25:27honestly this is like one of the best the way it's been presented the way the reports are written

3:25:34the visuals i mean it's just perfect so i can't thank you enough for the work i terry you said

3:25:40this at the beginning with your comments the all the staff work and i i just i really want to

3:25:45recognize staff for putting this all together because there are so many pieces to this and

3:25:51so just a big time thank you um i have as tara indicated during her presentation

3:26:01staff have already talked to me about this item and i've been in favor of it so let's just get that

3:26:05out of the way right away um just a couple few further comments madam chairs just uh

3:26:13let's not forget about place making opportunities and art opportunities as we do this as well

3:26:19because that that can really beautify and make our downtown a beautiful place

3:26:25i'm so thankful that we're doing it in an expedited way i think it was you reg that said hey if you

3:26:30got one little section of the downtown closed everyone's going to think the whole thing's closed

3:26:34or they're just not going to come and so let's uh let's do an expedited get it done once get it

3:26:40done right and be done with it and then at this moment i'll just take a moment to say um you know

3:26:47please support gulf our our business is downtown now but start scrolling some money away that we

3:26:55can really support them uh during this time even under an expedited uh pathway so uh please please

3:27:02do that i want to just echo councillor downer's comments about tourism and once in a generation

3:27:09once in several generations opportunity we have in front of us here we're going to put put it back

3:27:14together let's do it let's do it in the most beautiful possible way that we can because this

3:27:19downtown core generates some of the most economic impact and benefits to our entire city and we

3:27:27often talk about investments here in this city and or sorry this corner of the city in that corner

3:27:31of the city and they're all important but um this is an investment in our downtown to make it so

3:27:38beautiful and inviting that actually i can see investors private sector wise wanting to then

3:27:43continue to see what we're doing and what our plans are and that they're solidified that they're

3:27:48going to say okay you know what i am going to build a building down there for uh for people to live

3:27:54in i am going to invest in that downtown because i see what the city is committing to invest in

3:28:00as well so there's a huge economic factor here not just on the business side but for housing as well

3:28:07um and so uh with that uh madam chair i just want to thank thank you as well for your leadership

3:28:15on this file as the chair i thought you've done an excellent job on this too steering it through

3:28:20to this moment so thank you to you this is a once in a lifetime opportunity let's just do it once

3:28:26and do it right and i think we'll be very very proud of it and uh and thank you thank you for

3:28:32thank you for allowing me to have those comments certainly uh councillor classon great thank you um

3:28:39i don't want to repeat any of the things that my my council colleagues and the mayor have said because

3:28:45i think you've wrapped up a lot of my thoughts really beautifully and i and i won't repeat them

3:28:49however um i i do have a couple of little things as a as a kid who grew up downtown gualph um and

3:28:57who has evolved into this role as city councillor and as the you know official downtown champion

3:29:03i'm i'm really excited about this project and i'm excited about all of the hard work that has

3:29:08gone into it and what it can mean for gualph uh and all of the resident residents here and i just

3:29:13want to echo something that went was said earlier regarding um our strategy and what we set out for

3:29:19this term of council which is creating a downtown for everyone and i think the plans here really

3:29:24integrate you know something for everyone and i know that's a really difficult balance to achieve

3:29:30and you know this is an opportunity to refresh vital infrastructure but it's also this moment for us

3:29:37this special once in a lifetime opportunity um for us to come together and create something special

3:29:43and so i think that that little gal in me is pretty nerding nerding out and pretty excited about

3:29:50what's to come and i i have crossed out all of the things that i have said and what other people

3:29:55have said but i will just add that i have a note that says removable ballards exclamation mark

3:30:01exclamation mark which i think is a really a nerdy thing to say um but i think that will help with

3:30:08what cam and with with maric cam said about um placemaking and having more events downtown

3:30:15and drawing people downtown so when i when i meet with people and when i bring people to gualph and

3:30:19when i talk to newcomers to gualph i bring them downtown and they always liken it to you know

3:30:25characteristic small towns in television shows like stars hollow and things like that and i'm

3:30:30and i'm looking forward to bringing more people downtown and drawing more people downtown um and

3:30:36and having more more more great times together there um so thank you thank you councillor Klassen

3:30:44oh councillor Allt thank you very much chair work um i too would echo many of the sentiments but i

3:30:52think i want to reinforce a couple of things with with some things that have been done in the past

3:30:56i think we need to recognize that what we are talking about is providing a a foundation for

3:31:03institutions that are there already our library the riverrun center the sleam and center uh market

3:31:08square and thank you to to former councillors um bircher and um solsbury for their idea on the

3:31:16reflecting pond uh at market square for that vision otherwise we'd have a parking lot there um

3:31:24in the conversation with mr chuck nash of the downtown board we both agree that the potential

3:31:29for downtown is a tourist um a tourist area is very important but it is not there unless we

3:31:36enhance it uh it provides us also with a tremendous windfall uh because uh the jazz fest art on the

3:31:43street draw people from not just out of town but from where you are councillor or work from the

3:31:48south end and from where uh councillor Busuttil is from the west end we draw people in the city

3:31:54into the core and remember that the core as a as a living dynamic center of life is one of the greatest

3:32:02contributors to the tax base that the city has and as we build more uh accommodations in the

3:32:08downtown in baker street and elsewhere um we need a vital dynamic place for people to live

3:32:15and for people to celebrate with bikes pedestrians with uh with um uh streetside cafes um we have

3:32:24a place that is going to attract people from all over and this uh is nothing more than a compliment

3:32:31everything that has done being done in the past and is still being done including uh two-way all-day

3:32:36go thank you councillor oh councillor Caron followed by councillor chou my colleagues have

3:32:45articulated pretty much everything i wanted to say but i'll just add two quick things this has

3:32:51been an evolution that has been a long time coming from the very first downtown secondary plan to

3:32:57uh you know the modeling of heights i mean this has been decades to get to this point every time

3:33:05a tree gets cut down or something gets moved downtown we all say oh don't don't worry we're

3:33:11going to be ripping up windows street it'll be replanted when we do this when we do that and

3:33:16so this is this is a lot of work that is coming to fruition this evening for our approval um the

3:33:23only other thing i wanted to say is that i have always um and many of my mentors in this role have

3:33:28said lienne don't always think of everything as an expense it's an investment and there's no greater

3:33:34roi than our downtown in terms of not just assessment value but quality of life and culture

3:33:40and tourism and all kinds of other indicators of of our success and and who among us uh in this

3:33:48horseshoe has not visited a downtown elsewhere and picked something like oh i i like that or

3:33:55oh that i noticed something in our travels um that we could implement in downtown gulf we bring

3:34:03that back with us this table so i'm seeing a lot of that in in the plan that we're moving forward

3:34:09with um and and and i think that our citizens all citizens uh who um who live downtown

3:34:18shop downtown play downtown um will benefit from the decisions that we're making tonight

3:34:25thanks councillor chou thank you chair rark um i think just a quick comment i had a friend that

3:34:37came to visit me for a few days um he's from freshman bc and he does a bunch of neighborhood

3:34:44block watch with the city there and um it's just more of a side comment he was very impressed with

3:34:49the downtown uh when we went to take him out for a visit and like it does we like we do have a very

3:34:56historic downtown that leaves an impression on a lot of folks that are outside of the city

3:35:01and i just can't help but think about my constituency in the south end as well um i think

3:35:06geographically speaking like ward six and the other words are quite far from downtown in particular

3:35:13and uh sometimes it's hard for folks to make the connection uh with the vestments that we're making

3:35:19in our core um i'm certainly an advocate for all the downtown renewal work that's taking place but

3:35:25i can't help but think if staff has opportunities to set up um one of those infrastructure cafes

3:35:31outside of this the downtown core when there's opportunities that would be really great um

3:35:36and just i just want to have that comment on the record like i can see opportunities where

3:35:41you have some staff maybe carve out two three hours of the time set shop at cabin coffee or

3:35:46centurion and have have people be more educated and aware of what's actually taking place so they

3:35:53know where their tax dollars are going so i would really love that opportunity if we could have that

3:35:59collaboration and i think a lot of folks in the south end would appreciate it a lot so thank you

3:36:07thank you council shoo okay uh before i call vote i just want to say i i moved to gulf in 1997

3:36:15and probably by 2027 our downtown will have been almost completely transformed when we think about

3:36:25you know the investment in the library the private investment that's going to come to

3:36:30build more residential towers uh this in terms of infrastructure and streetscapes is a $123

3:36:36million investment in the downtown we are seeing a really historic rejuvenation of downtown um

3:36:44i appreciate staff's efforts to be communicating citywide about why people should come downtown

3:36:50i would encourage people citywide as counter choose said uh to engage in all the consultations

3:36:56the downtown is not a ward two or a ward one thing the downtown is a citywide thing and we all have a

3:37:03say in how we like to use the downtown and what attracts us here so please do that and please be

3:37:09sure now during the construction and definitely afterwards to support a vibrant downtown we will

3:37:16all be the richer for it so with that i'll call a vote on 10.1.3 downtown streetscape level of

3:37:24service and construction mitigation is anyone opposed okay i see none that is passed unanimously

3:37:32just great all right it is 5 o 3 p.m and folks have been in meetings now since one o'clock so i'm

3:37:40going to call a 20 minute dinner break it's a 20 minute dinner break because i think when we come

3:37:46back we'll be able to get through the next items rather quickly but i do want to give people a chance

3:37:50to uh uh rejuvenate okay so 20 minutes thanks okay for our folks at home if you can turn off your

4:02:46cameras please gold star for calendar counselors katin and alt yeah like from the first agenda

4:02:58item with the gold stars two gold stars for counselor class then okay all right so i'm going

4:03:09to call us back to order um we're all refreshed the next agenda item is 10.1.4 improving access to

4:03:16public washrooms in gwellf we've heard the staff presentation do we have our delegation

4:03:22clerks no we do not okay so we've tried to reach miss watson a number of times and uh and she's not

4:03:29available we do have correspondence from her on one of the agenda items however so i'm going to go

4:03:33to questions you have a question margothry uh no i was happy to do do you want a table sure okay

4:03:42counselor class then what's the second yeah counselor class in a second and we have motions

4:03:50around this one so go ahead did you have any questions counselor class in yes thank you um

4:04:04okay so my first question is regarding um the inclusion of the appropriate underground

4:04:09infrastructure to facilitate the installation of a self-cleaning washroom um my question is

4:04:17is the reason why it's just the infrastructure and not the full washroom uh through you mad

4:04:25through you madame chair to counselor class the reason was just uh we all recognize that it is very

4:04:31tight uh budget year um so we thought it was important to get that underground infrastructure

4:04:36in place and then be able to make that decision at a later time um when maybe budget was more available

4:04:44okay thank you um it's no secret that i'm bringing forward a motion with regard to this item so

4:04:50i might have been leading a little bit into the next question that i have which is around um

4:04:55a question i actually received from a resident which is around the potential for federal funding

4:05:00grants so uh i was sent um an article from the city of water lou who received i think i you know

4:05:08i don't quote me but probably around 250 000 for the installation of a public washroom and i just

4:05:15was wondering if you could speak a little bit to the availability of those types of funds um and and

4:05:21perhaps you know some of the things that would make us more attractive for those types of funding

4:05:32through the chair to counselor clausen thanks for the question we uh have been looking this

4:05:37afternoon into funding programs that may be available we are aware of one federal government

4:05:41program for which a washroom like this would likely qualify for up to 200 000 that program is

4:05:47currently closed um it closed in june but it is a program that has had multiple intakes and could

4:05:53be expected to have another intake so certainly uh as council considers this matter this evening

4:05:59we could continue to look for future federal and provincial grant programs that could facilitate

4:06:04a portion of of the costs okay thank you and just one more than on that matter um so with regard to

4:06:12i think that the water city of water lou received special funding uh to make their washroom more

4:06:18accessible um and so i was wondering if if we were to approve this motion with regard to a self-cleaning

4:06:24washroom um would that help us qualify for for funding as well uh through you madam chair yes

4:06:31the the funding that jody jody was speaking to was sort of more directed towards the the accessibility

4:06:37aspects of that washroom sorry through you madam chair thank you um and okay and finally

4:06:49so again would and we would so we would be looking through the that lens i i don't have to ask that

4:06:53question again um i think that's all for me and i will just um say that i will be bringing for that

4:07:00motion whenever appropriate and seconded by um mayor Guthrie mayor Guthrie moved the recommendation

4:07:10you seconded this series of recommendations yeah so when we get to your motion you can table it

4:07:16we'll put it up and then we'll do the okay okay all right any other questions on 10.1.4

4:07:27council katin and council billings madam chair um i was just wondering because we've specifically

4:07:35outlined um the self-cleaning washrooms do we need to change that just in case we don't have

4:07:41the self-cleaning washrooms or is it okay to leave that in the motion knowing that those pipes

4:07:47will work for any type of washroom uh through you madam chair the pipes that we would install

4:07:56would work for any type of washer so it could be for a non-self-cleaning one that's just what staff

4:08:02were recommending as a result of what the research that we've done to date great thank you

4:08:08council billings do you madam chair um i just wanted to ask like so for for many years you

4:08:16know we talked about having the washrooms down at uh glow central station so is that money for those

4:08:22washrooms still in the budget or has that been removed um through you madam chair if we can

4:08:36just get some clarification is that sort of the new terminal building that we anticipate in the

4:08:40future so just to be clear any money in the budget right now for washrooms in that location

4:08:52are you referring to the train station or are you referring to the future transit station

4:08:59i'm referring to the future transit but but even before that years ago i believed we had

4:09:05money in there for washrooms so i just want clarity if there's any money in the capital

4:09:12budget for washrooms in that area because in the report it states two locations so it seems that

4:09:20st george's square seems to be an area where one washroom could go and so the second one

4:09:26i'm just asking if are we counting down by you know the uh the the bus and and the train station

4:09:35if we're counting that area as where the second location was going to be and if so is there any

4:09:41money currently in the budget for those washrooms uh so through the chair to council billings um

4:09:49in last year's adopted budget that money for that transit terminal building uh was in there and

4:09:54council would have seen it of course as miss baker said we're not finished the process of

4:09:58completing the budget for this year and so i can't answer as to specifically what will be in the

4:10:04budget that is presented to you but it was included in last year's adopted budget that that transit

4:10:08terminal building uh was still in the forecast um and that does include washrooms the gwell

4:10:14central station current building that is uh not owned by the city anymore i think as everyone is

4:10:20aware um we have been working with metro links to talk to them about the possibility of getting

4:10:25those public washrooms reopened but at this point for safety reasons um they are uh closed

4:10:31and then the only other washrooms just for clarification are the ones that are in the

4:10:35market square pavilion um just if we're talking about washrooms along cardin street and those

4:10:41are currently open uh whenever the rink or water feature is operating correct so through you madam

4:10:49chair i'm i'm still trying to drill down on in the report it asked for at least two locations

4:10:56so let's just maybe assume st georgia square area is one and because you're putting in infrastructure

4:11:04where is the second location uh through you madam chair uh what the way that the recommendation

4:11:11is structured is that through each phase of the downtown infrastructure renewal program we look at

4:11:15opportunities to include the underground infrastructure for washrooms so we would continue

4:11:20to look at where those locations would be appropriate um so i don't have an answer for you on

4:11:25where a second washroom could be but st georgia square certainly presents as an option currently

4:11:31and we would continue to look at this through each phase of the downtown infrastructure project

4:11:37okay and then also through you madam chair i guess i guess to to call in you know you mentioned

4:11:44down market square but we also have the washrooms in city hall like when it's after hours and and

4:11:53like the service desk is closed up is it not possible that we could have those washrooms

4:12:00available for public use after hours through the chair to council billings we certainly have done

4:12:07that during um extreme weather alerts so cold weather or in the summer in heat alerts um there

4:12:13is an added cost of opening the washrooms in terms of staffing because we don't have staff in the

4:12:17building um necessarily at the front desk and so that we do have to uh we would have to factor

4:12:22in the cost of opening the building outside of our regular hours so i say we've done it on a

4:12:26case by case basis when extreme weather either in the summer or the winter has been a factor

4:12:34okay because through you madam chair to calling because it's stated in the report these washrooms

4:12:39were to be staffed to what degree then because you just spoke about what it would have to be if it

4:12:47was at city hall so what's your definition of staff then through you madam chair um the staffing

4:12:58component would would mean that there were regular check-ins on the washroom so um not necessarily

4:13:03somebody sitting right outside the washroom sort of monitoring them constantly but making sure that

4:13:08there is constant checking in on them so um the report also talks about monitoring through um

4:13:14sort of tech technology like um the brave system and those types of things but that would alert

4:13:19potential outreach workers or bylaw or police um if there were somebody needed but having sort of

4:13:25regular check-ins on those public washrooms um when they're open okay thanks okay any other

4:13:33questions on this item i've got a couple the first one is um we are talking about 24 7 access to

4:13:42washrooms downtown but there's also a component that talks about winterized washrooms throughout our

4:13:47park system right so i'm just wondering have we looked at the roi on that and what are the

4:13:55considerations and the reason i ask the question is we have the asset management right plan we know

4:14:02that the more expensive our assets are the more expensive they are going to be to replace in the

4:14:06future so is there a very high use for winterized washrooms are currently three season but what is

4:14:15the cost impact of having to winterize them having to heat them so the pipes don't burst having to

4:14:19maintain them um i'm just curious about that so i'm eager to see a washroom that's planned for

4:14:25ornery park but is this what is the cost difference in terms of winterizing washrooms going forward

4:14:33and then what's our future replacement cost on that to you madam chair um we have been working

4:14:39with our um colleagues in parks on this question um so the parks and rec master plan also provided

4:14:45some direction and recommendations about foresees and use of public washrooms so the approach that

4:14:49we are currently taking is that as we introduce new washrooms or replace washrooms that's when we

4:14:56would sort of have foresees and use rather than upgrading existing ones so again one of the options

4:15:03i know parks has looked at is like again those urban blue type units that have that insulated

4:15:09component so yes they do need to be insulated so that the the pipes don't freeze and those types

4:15:14of things we know based on um the use of portable washrooms that are currently placed where permanent

4:15:21washrooms are for the winter that they are used i can't give you a specific data on numbers or

4:15:27amounts but they are used um so again i think that ROI in terms of quality of life and having people

4:15:35in our public spaces in our parks in four seasons is what we're after here um and that the there is

4:15:42utilization in the winter months and it would hopefully increase with access to those um important

4:15:49things facilities okay thanks and then my other question is for DCO Clackbush i just want to give

4:15:55you an opportunity to perhaps speak to some of the assertions that are made in the research document

4:16:01that was presented and you know one line in particular that struck me and i know it can't be

4:16:06true so um there is an assertion in that document that says the porta potties are not maintained

4:16:13and so can you give me an idea or can you give assurances to the public that they are in fact

4:16:17maintained and what the process is if they notice that they are not at the standard that they should be

4:16:24thank you uh to work for the question um so the porta potties we do contract out through a third

4:16:30party provider um but there is an expectation in terms of maintenance and so um it is not

4:16:36something that we've been receiving regular concerns about but if there are concerns that

4:16:40people have about the porta potties we absolutely want to hear that because then we will make sure

4:16:44that they are getting serviced as quickly as possible um but anytime there ever has been an

4:16:49issue uh the company's really good um we follow up with them and we make sure that they come and

4:16:53and look after it if there's ever an incident but they do regularly service those porta potties

4:16:57that's part of our contract with them um but certainly if anybody ever did uh notice an issue

4:17:02with uh the washrooms then uh they could just probably the best would be to contact uh either

4:17:07through service qualif or through our bylaw department and we make sure that we uh looked into it right

4:17:12away okay great thank you no questions no more comments i know we have amendments

4:17:22so i am going to go to councillor Klassen first it's a new clause uh are there any amendments

4:17:36to the motions that have been tabled councillor Caton yes thank you um i have an amendment to

4:17:451014 number six i'm sure if this staff have that on the screen yep clerks are going to put it up

4:17:57in just a sec so my amendment is that the inclusion of accessible and gender neutral

4:18:07options be prioritized for new modified or upgraded public washroom facilities instead of

4:18:15considered i think that human rights is something that we should be prioritizing and we have

4:18:22less options in the accessible and gender neutral categories than we do anything else

4:18:28so it should be something that we are beefing up in terms of quality do you have a seconder

4:18:35okay councillor Allt any questions

4:18:39yeah mayor guthrie thank you madam chair i'm just wondering why why why did it take a councillor

4:18:46katin to to do an amendment with that word like what was the reasoning behind considered versus

4:18:53the way it's been tabled now it was there must be some reasons for the way it was worded originally

4:19:01through you madam chair really the intent was to make sure that they are included in future the

4:19:06development of future public washrooms so prioritized or continue to be considered i think

4:19:10either works for us but the important thing is that they continue to be considered when we build

4:19:16new washrooms okay so if through you madam chair so if this had not been tabled as an amendment

4:19:30the the human rights and accessibility and all that would have been a default position of staff

4:19:35anyways that's through you madam chair that's correct that's what i thought okay thank you

4:19:41okay i'm going to call the vote on the amendment is anybody opposed

4:19:48mayor guthrie is opposed the motion carries okay um we could vote on all of the motions

4:19:57as presented and then we have two more additional clauses okay so i'm going to call the vote

4:20:03on recommendations one through seven as amended is anybody opposed okay so that's

4:20:11unanimous as well so i'm going to go to councillor Klassen uh yes thank you so

4:20:20i already have alluded to i'm just pulling up the the words for my for myself here um i've already

4:20:25alluded to the fact that i wanted to bring forward um a motion for a self-cleaning washroom

4:20:31as part of the windom and st. george's square redevelopment

4:20:38i think this is really important we've seen it you know i'm just repeating what

4:20:43mrs. Laughlin has has already pointed out there are self-cleaning washrooms in allora

4:20:48in waterloo and i can't remember the third one you mentioned um and i've had the opportunity to

4:20:53also use self-cleaning washrooms first in allora but also in in other places as well

4:20:59and i think that it's a it's an important addition and um in consideration of some of the work

4:21:05that councillor roark has been doing with the basic needs working group i think it aligns

4:21:10really well with our need for public facilities downtown um and i think this prioritizes and

4:21:19also makes it happen and not just the infrastructure right away and i really want to thank staff for

4:21:23working with me on this um kind of done it without you really um so the motion is worded

4:21:30that staff include the installation of a self-cleaning public washroom as part of the windom

4:21:34street st george's square redevelopment subject to budget adoption through the 2025 budget confirmation

4:21:40and i believe that mayor guthrie will be seconding do you second that mayor guthrie i will second it

4:21:51put it on the floor but i just have a follow-up question to um as long as the mover is is done

4:21:57so it's up to you up to you did you want to finish comments um i think i've said it all really i

4:22:05changing the wording makes it happen as part of the redevelopment rather than just putting in the

4:22:10infrastructure um and i think that um we know what happens when we don't commit to washrooms

4:22:18downtown i think that um counselor um sorry i'm spacing out counselor billings thank you

4:22:28alluded to the fact that there was money in in the budget previously for washrooms potentially

4:22:34and it hasn't happened i know we've had some discussion around washrooms there are some currently

4:22:40but having a solution that is both permanent and clean and that has the potential for federal funding

4:22:47for potential accessible unit as well i think would be something that we we should consider

4:22:53in in the immediate future thank you mayor guthrie you had a question and then councillor

4:22:59boost tell yeah thank you and maybe through you uh chair just to staff i just wanted to know i'm

4:23:04just uh maybe a little bit concerned about uh the last line of that motion it says and to be

4:23:10included in 2025 budget but the like the actual construction and everything doesn't even happen

4:23:18until 2026 and then it might not even it might not even be installed until like 2027 so i'm just

4:23:25wondering maybe if uh i could make an amendment to just say within the downtown renewal construction

4:23:33project or something like that that that gives that gives the opportunity to have it have the

4:23:38money placed in the year that it that it's actually coming to fruition instead of you know putting

4:23:46you know 300 000 dollars into a budget for next year but this not even it's not even needed so um

4:23:51can i just get comments from staff on on that am i am i reading that right am i positioning it wrong

4:23:56i just want to make sure i understand yeah through you madam chair it would be unlikely that we would

4:24:01sort of order a unit or anything until closer to the end of like the windom project um because we

4:24:07wouldn't want to install it until construction is nearing completion so again likely that might be a

4:24:132027 um budget impact although in terms of how we tender things i might look to see if miss

4:24:21baker had other comments but i think there would be opportunities for um that to be in the 2027 budget

4:24:28okay so yeah uh through you madam chair we'll just wait for tera i guess to answer then i might

4:24:32just i might just change the ending then uh just uh about that um so uh through through the chair to

4:24:39mayor got three we had complete we had put the 25 budget confirmation in there because that's the

4:24:45process like that's the that's the the confirmation budget will include a 10 year capital plan and

4:24:51so we will put it in to the correct year but through the 25 confirmation was the reasoning for that date

4:24:59very well explained i'll just leave it alone thank you very much

4:25:04okay margaret any other questions i'm going to councillor boostill thank you just to be

4:25:08clear uh for the motion because i i didn't quite read it so this is uh permanent self-cleaning

4:25:15autonomous uh toilets in addition to the community toilet scheme and the public washrooms and all the

4:25:23other downtown developments is is that like it's a permanent after the infrastructure downtown renewal

4:25:31there would be some kind of a self-cleaning permanent is that did i get that right through you

4:25:42madam chair um my understanding is that it would be permanent um and that if i'm if i'm you know i'm

4:25:51looking to staff as well actually right now it would be part of the plans it wouldn't be in addition

4:25:57to it would be one of the recommendations it would just be happening now instead of at some point in

4:26:03the future uh through you madam chair that's correct so the way that the original staff

4:26:09recommendation was worded was that through the downtown infrastructure renewal project we would

4:26:13install the underground infrastructure to support the the self-cleaning or autonomous public washroom

4:26:20and what councillor class in's motion is intended to do is to provide direction to actually install

4:26:26sort of the above ground the the key pieces of the washroom that people need to use it not just

4:26:30the pipes underground so they would be it would work together with the recommendations that were

4:26:35included in the staff report thank you uh through through you madam chair just picking up on what

4:26:40the mayor has said i'm still a little bit confused i understood the motion about the the infrastructure

4:26:45the underground you know pipes and so on but then i'm not clear on when the capital the actual

4:26:52you know um facility comes is it within 10 years because it's a 10-year budget but what i'm

4:27:00hearing and please correct me as it's happening concurrently so i just want expectations it's

4:27:07infrastructure is one and within 10 years comes the piece that goes on top of it just so i'm clear

4:27:13through you madam chair um from my perspective what councillor class in's motion would do would

4:27:19be to say it should be included in the phase of the downtown infrastructure project that is the

4:27:24windom street in st. George's square phase so that's the first phase so it would be yes in the 10-year

4:27:30capital but more specifically um we would be looking to finish that project up in 2027 so the

4:27:35actual capital investment of the public washroom would be 2027 sorry it's just through the clerks

4:27:59kind of the motion back up again sorry i didn't quite finish thank you okay councillor boostill did

4:28:38you have another question you asked to have it put up you still have the floor thank you no i

4:28:44understand the budget adoption the capital budget adoption 10-year forecast i'm just a little bit

4:28:48confused around expectations and i'm hearing you know if there's a grant it'll help with that i'm

4:28:54just trying to uh understand expectations of when this is going to happen how it's funded and what's

4:29:00getting off the the budget um capital budget for for this okay thanks um i'll actually ask staff

4:29:10a question um if we are to apply for a grant then does that project have to be in our capital plan

4:29:19like we have to apply for something that we are planning on doing so just putting it in the capital

4:29:24plan as a project help us in a grant application to you chair work um typically we try to focus

4:29:34our grant efforts on projects that we know our council approved and we look to our 10-year capital

4:29:39forecast to identify those projects and so certainly this motion tonight gives us clarity that this is

4:29:44direction that council wants us to pursue from a granting program um perspective if that's helpful

4:29:49for you that is helpful okay so we have councillor class and motions on the floor america 3 is not

4:29:57amending it uh councillor heyton i know has an amendment councillor all do you have a question

4:30:02or an amendment a question that i believe that for staff um when i read the motion what concerns me

4:30:11two two concerns um one is um the precise location uh the way that it reads is windham slash

4:30:19st george square and i was wondering if staff could comment uh with some consideration of

4:30:26location uh i appreciate that maybe st george is square is the most convenient place for it but

4:30:33i'm also concerned about um the logistics of st george is square and the aesthetics as well

4:30:40or whether we would be looking anywhere on windham street so so councillor Allt the motion says as a part

4:30:45of the windham street st george square redevelopment so it could be anywhere in there could i have staff

4:30:53comment on that please yep through you madam chair um yes we would look at locations through

4:31:01the detailed design of windham street and then we are going to go through an exercise for st

4:31:05george square to develop a concept plan so i think through the concept plan for st george square

4:31:11leading into the detailed design for st george square and the detailed design of windham street

4:31:15as a whole that is where we would look for any opportunity so it could be a long windham and

4:31:19it could be in the square thank you the next question um i think this is perhaps to our

4:31:25environmental and our water staff is because i know nothing about self-cleaning washrooms

4:31:32nor the chemicals that are used nor nor the water consumption uh do we have any concerns about the

4:31:38environmental water impacts mr tampocopolis good evening uh no we don't have any concerns

4:31:49around any environmental impacts thank you okay yeah i just want to take uh a couple of seconds

4:32:01i know councillor Caton has an amendment one of our councillors has had to step out for just a

4:32:05second it's her motion that's on the floor so i just want to take a couple of minutes and give

4:32:10councillor claus and the chance to come back councillor Caton did you want to introduce your

4:32:17or did you want to speak to your amendment before you table it i think all members of council should

4:32:21be present when you table it um is councillor claus and that like i would like to wait for her

4:32:30sorry yep she's back okay thank you through you i really like the the idea and the intent

4:32:39of councillor claus and's motion i think that having a washroom that is uh self-cleaning is

4:32:45fantastic in in theory but currently um there is a lot of accessibility concerns i have with those

4:32:55so myself i have a environmental disability and so i react to perfume products and high

4:33:02voc products and there are three to five percent of the population who has something at my level

4:33:06and 20 who reacts to perfumes in a much more dramatic way than the general population but not

4:33:13as much as me so um while the chemicals used may not have an environmental impact they don't

4:33:19necessarily remove the fact that they could have an accessibility impact so i don't want to jump on

4:33:26that as being the only option when we have standard washrooms that can also be used where we're more

4:33:32in control of the products being used in them so my amendment by substitution is that staff

4:33:39investigate the installation of a self-cleaning public washroom as a part of the windham street

4:33:43st george square redevelopment and report back on cost accessibility aac feedback an environmental

4:33:50impact assessment comparison of a non-self-cleaning washroom in advance of the 2026 budget confirmation

4:33:57and i had discussed this with staff and they said that this would be

4:34:01within the timeline that we could decide and also give them enough time to actually complete the

4:34:05process okay do you have a seconder councillor Caton yes um councillor Allt councillor Allt okay questions

4:34:15merrigath three thank you and through you um this whole project uh not just including the

4:34:20bathrooms that are being discussed right now but everything is it going to flow through

4:34:25naturally through feedback through the aac anyways through you madam chair yes that's correct okay

4:34:34thank you i won't be supporting this then okay any other questions on the amendment um

4:34:46yeah i just have a question for staff in terms of the environmental impact assessment comparison

4:34:55i'm just wondering what kind of workload that is like we know that there are cities that have these

4:34:59right um so i'm just wondering if this increases the workload uh to you madam chair it certainly is

4:35:08sort of an added project or adding component to the project yes okay councillor Klassen has a question

4:35:16yes sorry about that um through you chair or work i just i had a question with regard to

4:35:23um the amendment it's i'm just curious can we can we not have both like does the self cleaning

4:35:31washroom with the accessible options can there be also accessible options explored in the other

4:35:37washrooms or would it not be also explored like i specifically am thinking about the waterloo

4:35:43example again and they have a self cleaning washroom that is accessible to a certain extent i

4:35:48don't have the details of that right in front of me um would that not be part of the the process

4:35:53for looking at these units and if so would we need to report back could we could we leave that to you

4:36:04through you madam chair we do know um that the unit in waterloo was reviewed by accessibility

4:36:10committees um over there so yes there are definitely accessibility options that can be

4:36:15added to these types of units and certainly accessibility would is an important consideration

4:36:21for staff when we're doing any project and we would get into all of those details through

4:36:26detailed design so if council were to provide direction that we actually install one of these

4:36:32through downtown infrastructure that's when we would start to look at all of the details and the

4:36:36supplier and compare whether it is actually the sort of autonomous self cleaning washroom that

4:36:41we want to proceed with or a more traditional washroom um but that would that's sort of a new

4:36:46thing for Guelph to look at those self cleaning washrooms so that's why we've got that wording in

4:36:50there now. Councillor Gibson you had a question? I guess it's just a question slash comment so

4:36:59operational experience is something that's pretty standard either the industry and i'm sure it was

4:37:03across municipalities as well um if waterloo has gone through this process just in order to help

4:37:09things move more efficiently is is there is there an opportunity for information and data

4:37:13sharing between Guelph and Waterloo to determine best practices on this how they achieved accessibility

4:37:21standards and perhaps um help just help to work more efficiently. Through you Madam Chair certainly

4:37:30um but those would be our next steps would be to reach out to municipalities and understand their

4:37:34experiences and again not just Waterloo but also St. Catharines and Ellora and understand

4:37:41their experiences with them so that would inform how we move forward um so yes. Those are my

4:37:46sentiments as well I think that we can take a learned approach to to this process we don't

4:37:51have to start from square one and learn it all ourselves when other municipalities who are good

4:37:56relationships to us have have that information so I appreciate it thank you. Councillor Buse

4:38:01Tilde do you have a question? Yes thank you and through uh Chair or just the staff I think what

4:38:08I just heard I see this motion as exploring the viability through a number of different lenses of

4:38:15the self-cleaning versus I think the words use um a more traditional kind of washroom and what I'm

4:38:22missing is does that come back to council or is that staff's decision to say we explored the two

4:38:28of these and one is more effective in terms of longer life and maintenance I don't know those

4:38:35kinds of things through those lens or uh yeah if you could just clarify. Yeah through you Madam

4:38:42Chair um ahead of tonight we hadn't planned to come back with a recommendation on the exact

4:38:48design of the washroom that we would install um that would sort of be through the detailed design

4:38:53project of Wyndham Street so we hadn't planned to come back with those types of things unless

4:38:58there was a large decision that we felt we needed council direction on. Thank you and through the

4:39:05Chair just to supplement just so I'm clear I'm trying to differentiate between Councillor Clausson's

4:39:10and Councillor Keaton's substitution um do they both achieve the same ends of staff directed to

4:39:20look at self-cleaning versus more traditional and you said you already do the lens of accessibility

4:39:27and cost and operating and so on like are they are they the same except one is more explicit.

4:39:39Yeah so through you Madam Chair I through our detailed design work we would be looking at sort of

4:39:44all of the options um I think for me the difference between the the two motions is that one is that

4:39:49we we would have to report back to council which in terms of detailed design and moving a project

4:39:54forward can sometimes um add time to a project so that would be the main difference for me is

4:40:00the reporting back aspect um between the two motions. Yeah just final just so I'm absolutely

4:40:07clear so regardless of of which motion goes forward staff will take this away do their analysis

4:40:15through all those good lenses you know and make the best decision on those parameters of operating

4:40:22and cost and you know accessibility and everything else is that correct. Through you Madam Chair yes

4:40:28that's correct. Councillor Goller. Thank you through Chair O'Rourke but based on what I've heard

4:40:36and thank you to Councillor Peruzio for asking those questions from staff I'm not going to be

4:40:41supporting the amendment by substitution I believe that it adds unnecessarily time to staff and time

4:40:48to the project when I believe based on what I've heard that they will be doing those reviews and

4:40:53those studies anyways thank you. Okay Councillor Klassen did you have a comment? Yeah thank you

4:41:01Chair O'Rourke just a quick one I really hear what Councillor Katelyn is is doing I really appreciate

4:41:08that we should be prioritizing accessible washrooms as we're looking at places for

4:41:16people to use at them downtown. I think that clause number six of of the overall 10.1.4 actually

4:41:26encompasses this I think we've been told numerous times by staff that we will be considering all of

4:41:33these options and it is also written in another motion so I certainly support the spirit of the

4:41:42motion but I don't think it's necessary so I won't be supporting. Councillor Claes I'm sorry

4:41:50Councillor Katelyn. Thank you very much through you Chair so I understand that people think that

4:41:59everybody considers accessibility the same thing and that's just not true I personally have been

4:42:06injured recently in a bathroom in the city facility because of my environmental sensitivities

4:42:13so I don't necessarily trust that the intent will match the understanding unless it's gone through a

4:42:24more rigorous accessibility process and we missed the vote on the AAC being consulted in our latest

4:42:34bylaw I really want to make sure that that doesn't happen again and even a walking past something

4:42:40that's venting out these chemicals can harm someone like me so if we place this in the square

4:42:49and it's not accessible it's not just accessible to use it's making the square inaccessible to walk

4:42:53around so there are bigger implications here than people realize because of the lack of personal

4:42:59experience and I know that everybody wants accessibility and nobody is against it but the

4:43:06process and the details really matter here and I really hope that you vote for this.

4:43:15Councillor Downer. I just a question I just so hearing some of this I just want to confirm that

4:43:23that when the washrooms come they'll be going through the accessibility advisory committee

4:43:30which through you Madam Chair the overall project like detailed design and including the washrooms

4:43:36would be okay brought forward to the accessibility advisory committee.

4:43:39Yes so they'll be yes that's what I thought I just wanted to get back to that so they'll be

4:43:44considering those things at that committee okay that's correct yeah okay I'm going to call the vote

4:43:53any opposed to Councillor Caton's amendment? Gowler, Claeson, Mayor Guthrie, Councillor Bustill,

4:44:01Councillor Downer, Councillor Billings, Councillor Gibson, Councillor Chew and myself are opposed and

4:44:06so the amendment fails so we're back to Councillor Klassen's main motion and I'd like to call the

4:44:13vote on that motion. Is anyone opposed to Councillor Klassen's motion? I see no one opposed that

4:44:22motion passes unanimously okay we have one more motion one more motion Councillor Klassen are you

4:44:33able to table that motion for me please? So I'm in yes absolutely I'm in play musical chairs

4:44:42Councillor Klassen will move it Councillor Goller will second it.

4:44:48Yes and I can read it out sure yeah clerks are going to put it up great okay I'll just I'll start

4:44:55then that staff explore the incorporation of a drinking water drinking water fountain slash

4:45:01refill station as part of any future self public sorry self cleaning public washroom provided in

4:45:08downtown or as part of any constructed modified or upgraded permanent washroom facilities in city

4:45:13owned park and that in the interim it explores temporary solutions for the provision of drinking

4:45:18water fountains subject to consultation with Wellington Dufferin Guelph public health and subject

4:45:23to budget adoption through the appropriate future budget confirmation. So thank you Councillor Klassen

4:45:30we know that with climate change the summers are getting hotter we know that people need to cool down

4:45:37we know that people who are traveling on their bikes are going to want to fill their water bottles

4:45:41and that a water refill station is not always available I was in Montreal a couple of weeks ago

4:45:48they have temporary ones that sort of plug into the underground infrastructure that our staff know

4:45:54a lot more about than I do I saw the same thing in Burlington but we don't have a lot of drinking

4:45:59water fountains downtown or in our city parks and so all this does is it looks to those basic needs

4:46:06and it tries to accelerate the provision of water fountains both in the short term and then more

4:46:11permanent solutions in the longer term. Mayor Guthrie. Yeah thanks this is great and thank you for

4:46:17bringing it forward Chair O'Rourke and to my fellow Councillors for tabling it just a question

4:46:23through you I've seen we've all seen them we've all seen them for sure I just got maybe I'm just

4:46:29excited to vote this but there's ones that actually have a pet bowl at the bottom as well

4:46:35see there's like the human side up top and then there's actually a pet bowl at the bottom

4:46:40is that something that staff could look into as well could that be incorporated into this

4:46:46because it's like a whole it's like a whole system right through you Madam Chair yes all right there

4:46:51you go we won't talk long doing the amendment for that okay Councillor Gibson yeah thank you just

4:46:58really just an operational question I like the idea I think it's a great idea

4:47:05operationally though are there self-cleaning water fountains my preference would be for a

4:47:11water bottle refilling station rather than a drinking fountain I find them pretty unhygienic

4:47:18but I'm not in this world so can someone help me understand is there ability to keep them hygienic

4:47:24or are we really talking about a water refilling station here like a water bottle refilling station

4:47:33through you Madam Chair to Councillor Gibson certainly some of the the self-cleaning washrooms

4:47:38that we're talking about have these types of things sort of on the outside and operationally as staff

4:47:44check the washrooms they check the the water refill station they are a lot of the times a

4:47:49water refill station or the combination of the water bottle refill station with a fountain

4:47:53should you so choose to to use that option so they certainly are opportunities for those types of

4:48:00things yes okay plain as mud but that's okay I'm not a fan of the water fountain but the the

4:48:09water bottle refilling I'm all for so thank you noted thank you Councillor Gibson Councillor Carran

4:48:17again not our motion but one of the best public drinking fountain found kind of

4:48:22cultural assets that is the Benson bubblers in Port Sanragon and they were provided by a local

4:48:31and just you know I go out and look into costiness there may be an opportunity for

4:48:38downtown businesses to sponsor a surriff fountain I throw that out there as we're exploring it

4:48:44moving forward it forward it may not have to be something that the expense

4:48:51great Councillor Boestel thank you and through

4:48:56Chair O'Rourke I just have a question for staff about process I understand that when

4:49:02parks and playgrounds are revitalized that water water filling stations is part of that process

4:49:09and so my question is is is this motion about the downtown temporary additional water

4:49:17or is it about creating structures downtown in the in the long term and I guess selfishly not

4:49:24being downtown in the west end there is an and being Italian you know I'm thinking of the statues

4:49:32the water fountains and the dearth of art outside and places of interest outside is is there an

4:49:39opportunity outside of the downtown to have something creative incorporated it's not a motion

4:49:47but it's it's you know as we're creating structures can we have something a little bit more interesting

4:49:52than the wall of the washroom somewhere on a trail and so on but I'm a little bit confused as

4:49:59when you talk about these temporary water fills is it linked to the construction or is it temporary

4:50:05forever so it would be both Councillor Boestel so while we wait for some permanent water fountains

4:50:18right or or water bottle refilling stations and the motion is open to both what I saw in Montreal

4:50:26along you know the the festival quarter is they could add them and I just saw some added to ribfest

4:50:32at the boardwalk in Burlington and there are ways to connect these temporary portable stations

4:50:38for peak times right and so it is just to explore that so that we're not saying we're going to wait

4:50:44till 2027 to have a water fountain downtown when we know that it's part of the basic needs so

4:50:51Councillor sorry DCO clock Bush and I've talked about this lots of times same as the washrooms

4:50:56so it's to look at what could be a quick fix that you know wouldn't be problematic wouldn't

4:51:03require permanent infrastructure that could come back at a later date it's also look at what's going

4:51:08to be permanent and I'll you know with you I want to see some water fountains or water bottle

4:51:16refill stations in parks in the city because frankly we don't have them in the southern parks

4:51:23just a point of order madam chair just because and I'm meeting this with all due respect but the

4:51:27motion is about the downtown so I mean we can talk about park stuff like all night long but this is

4:51:33about this is about your idea about something for the downtown so I just want want to make sure through

4:51:40you that we are concentrating on that you raise a point of order but the motion says that staff

4:51:44explore in corporation incorporation of a drinking water fountain or water refill station as part of

4:51:49any future self-cleaning public washroom provided in downtown or as part of any constructed modified

4:51:56or upgraded permanent washroom facilities in city-owned parks it's both yeah it's both

4:52:03okay so we know we know we're gonna need more access to water going forward we got seniors walking

4:52:10lots of people out biking we want this I just want to make sure we've got water fountains

4:52:15or water bottle refill stations I'll just publicly say my apologies if you don't mind to you both you

4:52:21into Councillor Poussatil I'm sorry it wasn't in front of me and I I thought we were only talking

4:52:24about the downtown so my apologies to both of you okay okay can I call the vote I don't see any more

4:52:31questions no comments I'm going to call the vote is anyone opposed no that's unanimous okay and I

4:52:38believe that closes up any additional no Councillor Caton okay going back to you thank you I have one

4:52:46more new motion and I sent it out to everybody earlier today yeah clerks are just going to pull

4:52:57that up if you want to read that for us yes the staff be directed to discuss an innovation

4:53:02opportunity with the University of Guelph to design a fluid alternative to the current

4:53:06perfumed options for portable toilets to increase the accessibility of these options

4:53:11and report back to council in an information report so this is important because I know that any

4:53:16washroom is better than no washroom but again every washroom currently that exists that is a

4:53:21portable toilet has perfume as one of its ingredients for what they consider obvious reasons but

4:53:28doesn't necessarily have to be so so those are inaccessible to again five percent of the population

4:53:35so I would really like it if we could talk to the University of Guelph and potentially work

4:53:41at a plan it would just be great if they were aware of the opportunity because a maiden wealth

4:53:46option for something that was truly accessible would be fantastic Councillor Caton do you have a

4:53:52seconder yes I'm going to second that okay all right and any questions

4:54:01council boost still yes thank you and through you madam chair just a question about when you

4:54:08are procuring these facilities can you be specific in the terms of reference of

4:54:16of the specifications including things like the liquids so through a chair of work I'll jump in

4:54:23here we do con as I mentioned earlier we do contract these out through a third-party provider

4:54:27and I don't want to make that commitment that we would be able to provide provide a third-party

4:54:30provider I honestly don't know a lot about what they use in their porta-potties I'm imagining that

4:54:37there are specific reasons as to why they're using the chemicals that they are but I don't want to

4:54:42presume to speak out of turn because I we haven't done that research with them but my concern would

4:54:47be that even if the University of Guelph can come up with another option we may not be able to impose

4:54:53that on our supplier which would potentially leave us in the position that we would then need to be

4:54:59getting into the business of providing our own porta-potties which again then we're into having to

4:55:06service them and clean them out which is not anything that we as the city have ever done

4:55:10before so I appreciate that maybe there's an opportunity to investigate this but I would be

4:55:15very concerned about our ability to impose this upon a third-party supplier.

4:55:26Councillor Gibson. Yeah again just to reiterate some of my comments from earlier do we are there

4:55:32are staff aware of a best practice in other municipalities that have perhaps gone through

4:55:36accessibility standards and and and have solutions already or are we again having to learn this

4:55:43uniquely in Guelph or is there already a solution out there if there isn't then I'll support the

4:55:48motion but if there are staff aware of some best management practices that are already existing

4:55:53then perhaps we can be more efficient. Through the chair to Councillor Gibson we are at this point

4:56:00I am not we are not aware of any other municipalities who have an alternative for porta-potties

4:56:05we could go away and look into that but to my knowledge I don't know of any other municipalities

4:56:09who are doing any other anything else other than the type of porta-potties with the the

4:56:16chemicals that they are using in them that is from what I know to be standard.

4:56:23Okay maybe a question would staff be amenable to an amendment to the to the motion to just take

4:56:28this question away and and perhaps come back to come back with uh with what they've learned like do

4:56:34a bit of a scan. Through the chair to Councillor Gibson if I can just jump in and say we obviously

4:56:42will take council direction on this this is just a new piece of work that we have not scoped or

4:56:48talked about what the staffing implication would be nor have we talked to the University of Guelph

4:56:52so we will obviously take whatever direction you give us this evening but we we are in a bit of a

4:56:57position that it's I think you're hearing me struggle to answer because we don't know what we

4:57:02don't know on this and so and we have not sort of wrapped our heads around what the what the staff

4:57:09capacity would be to take this on. Councillor Klassen. Yes thank you and through you chair or work

4:57:22so just to build on what Councillor Gibson was alluding to I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with

4:57:26the word directed to discuss I guess if it's just a discussion then then perhaps it doesn't

4:57:33um it doesn't implicate us in a project. My question is how feasible is a project like

4:57:42like this because it it seems to be product development which I'm not entirely sure we

4:57:49we would I mean do typically. Through you Madam Chair again I I am struggling similar to DCAO

4:57:59CLEC Bush like I don't really know what would be involved in a project like this right now to be able

4:58:03to answer that so I think we could explore it a little bit and I look over to Ms. Sales for

4:58:11some help there. Sure so through the chair to Councillor Klassen there are several fronts

4:58:18on which we could explore this with the University I'm certain our partnership with the Guelph Lab

4:58:22is maybe one but product development isn't a space that we we've played more typically in the policy

4:58:28space just given the nature of of our partnership. The University obviously has an innovation space

4:58:37and we've got a great partnership with with them and their research team and we could put this

4:58:41question out to them but whether or not this is a specialty that someone is undertaking

4:58:48through their research program as well I think would be a consideration and it's difficult for me to

4:58:52speak to their research priorities and how those are funded sitting here today so I think we we

4:58:57you know and have a conversation to explore that more fully but to make a commitment beyond that

4:59:03that gets us into a project regardless of the scope I think it's a little early. Okay

4:59:14and then maybe just one more question with regard to the information report back to Council

4:59:19is would this be an appropriate report to go back to the AAC rather than Council?

4:59:30Sorry Councillor Klassen. Maybe I'll just withdraw that one. Okay okay um

4:59:40can I ask clerks to put the motion back up on the screen please? So I have a question for staff

5:00:10the first piece of sales I hear you say we we know who does this at the University we could

5:00:16reach out and ask if anybody is working on this so I'm comfortable with that piece. With respect

5:00:23to doing an information report I'm not sure what the value would be to Council especially if it's

5:00:30just somebody is working on it there's maybe no product development maybe it's not marketed maybe

5:00:35right we don't know what if it's somebody's PhD thesis then it might not ever come to market so

5:00:42I'm struggling with the I'm struggling with the information report

5:00:50and and how quickly it could be applied so I'm just wanting a few comment on that. Sure to you

5:00:57Chair O'Rourke I think you know we report back to Council in several ways and this could be as

5:01:03simple as reporting back via an email if that's appropriate and amenable to Council. Certainly

5:01:09happy to have an initial conversation with the University to understand if this is part of

5:01:13their research work or could be in the future and report back if that's helpful.

5:01:19So Councillor Caiten would that be sufficient I'm just not sure what would go into an information

5:01:26report. Just the outcome of the discussion right I'm not I'm not asking for a product

5:01:31to be made I'm asking for a conversation to be had so it's a seed of a potential plan but there's

5:01:39no plan and the outcome of the conversation would just detail what happened and if there is any

5:01:47potential going forward. Right so could that be an email back rather than information report and

5:01:52the reason I ask is the information report has to go through a couple rounds of approvals and

5:01:57and there is some staff time around that vetted through different departments could be environmental

5:02:02could be intergovernmental so I'm just again thinking about some staff capacity

5:02:07would you would you agree to strike the last portion of your motion or do you want to just

5:02:13vote on that okay all right so clerks I'm going to go rogue can we just strike out the information

5:02:21report portion of the motion I know. Madam Chair as a point of order I'd be happy to just follow

5:02:30process I'd be happy to move an amendment to strike the final I know I know it's a little bit more

5:02:36work but I'm happy to happy to follow the right process I'll move to strike that last portion

5:02:41and thank you Mayor Dastry. Do I have Councillor all to seconding okay I'm just going to call the

5:02:49vote on that all right anybody opposed to striking out the piece about the information report

5:02:55no that passes call the vote on the motion as amended Councillor Gibson do you have a question

5:03:01just a quick comment I think just personally speaking I think the motion would be better if

5:03:05it was a scan like this is a directed conversation to the University of Guelph I'll support

5:03:09for the time being but I think the motion would be better served if it was a scan like a sector

5:03:13scan or an industry scan with our municipal partners to see what they've come up with

5:03:18but I think staff's going to do that work anyway and they'll consult through the AAC for that so

5:03:22if we're asking staff to have a conversation with the University of Guelph it's a narrow

5:03:26conference a narrow motion but I think it I'm happy to support it okay any other comments

5:03:32no I'm calling the vote anyone opposed Mayor Guthrie is opposed okay but that motion passes

5:03:42all right any other motions with respect to improving access to public washrooms in Guelph

5:03:4710.1.4 seeing none I'm going to move to 10.1.5 downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District

5:03:57study with thanks to our staff who've been here since 1.30 we appreciate you being here

5:04:03and the work that you have done we have heard the presentation so we're just gonna let staff

5:04:10come on down and I will start the speaker or the question list okay okay I got Claeson Gibson

5:04:20Kiron questions I'm just doing the question list while people get settled on heritage okay

5:04:31not yet I just want people to have a seat okay do I have a mover for recommendations one and two

5:04:42and items 10.1.5 downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District study Councillor Alton

5:04:47Councillor Goller okay so that is on the floor question from Councillor Klassen

5:04:57yes thank you through you chair O'Rourke to Mr. Malin thank you for the work on this I know that

5:05:03I've attended a couple of the sessions so I know what what degree of public consultation has gone

5:05:09into it my question is specifically around the guidelines and specifically referencing

5:05:19new builds and how they get integrated into our historic landscape so will there be any

5:05:28guidance with regard to design for new builds and how do how they become incorporated

5:05:37into the historic downtown thank you through the chair to the Councillor so tonight is about

5:05:50the boundary and the study area boundary so we're we're trying to focus it on that tonight the

5:05:55guidelines are the next step if council approves us to move forward we'll look at that we will look

5:06:00at new builds and how they interact with existing heritage properties listed and designated but

5:06:06that's not kind of we're not quite there yet I know that's you know kind of the nuts and bolts

5:06:11of everything that people want to see but we're not quite there yet we have to go through the

5:06:15heritage act process and establishing the boundary is first okay thank you that does answer my question

5:06:23Councillor Gibson thank you through you chair O'Rourke okay opinion time and just trigger warning

5:06:31everybody I have I have some questions and please don't let's just put our opinions and

5:06:35personal feelings aside for a second on the surface a conservation district study

5:06:41is set to preserve and I understand there's a really good a moral argument for preserving

5:06:48cultural heritage practically speaking on the ground it is another layer of of of I don't want

5:06:56to call it anything other than just bureaucracy to development and I'm not going to polarize the issue

5:07:05but I do see developments and developers perhaps being a little bit more reluctant to try and do

5:07:14projects within a heritage district because of that because of that layer of complexity

5:07:21I want to ask staff through this process will you be identifying like key city building sites and

5:07:30key city building opportunities that have already been expressed or are you predicting to be expressed

5:07:36and then extra well and reaching out to those landowners proactively to let them know that this

5:07:42this heritage district if it's in effect these are the new these are the new hurdles or new

5:07:47steps that you must take in order to work in this area I just I just want there to be a long leeway

5:07:53long runway for for landowners in the downtown to be aware of what is the potential new layer of

5:08:01of again complexity to developing their sites I'm trying to say that the nicest way possible

5:08:08because I just I know that to be true so maybe I'll hand it over to staff and ask for a response to

5:08:13that miss walkie thank you through the chair to councillor so the short answer is yes we will be

5:08:19reaching out as far as the complexity downtown is already complex with heritage elements and you'll

5:08:25see in the report map to identify it's all the listed and designated properties and as was indicated

5:08:32by staff in the presentation you know 63 percent of the downtown properties are already identified

5:08:37as that you'll also see in the report there's kind of the core downtown area but there's been identified

5:08:44renewal areas and neighborhood fringe areas so I think there's you know we've already kind of

5:08:50starting to set the stage that this is going to be different this is going to be unique and we do

5:08:55recognize that development is going to occur downtown we do want development to occur we want

5:08:59to take advantage of the you know the large infrastructure spending that we've just been

5:09:03talking about so but yes the original question will landowners be notified absolutely okay thank you

5:09:12and do staff see themselves having the capacity to work individually with those landowners

5:09:19in terms of like helping them through the the heritage designation process I only ask that because

5:09:26we selfishly speaking and I think collectively it's it's a comment and I know that it can be taken

5:09:32the wrong way but we do want progress in our downtown to continue and so maybe I'll just ask

5:09:39for staff's reassurance that they believe that progress can continue and that this this will add

5:09:44to the character of the downtown and not slow down what we want to see being done in the downtown

5:09:52so through the chair of the councillor so yes we do have the capacity we don't anticipate that on

5:09:57day one we're going to have a plethora of redevelopment applications that are impacting this

5:10:04as you know we see with development applications there's you know one or two a year maybe five a

5:10:09year so we do have the capacity to work with individual property owners as they go forward

5:10:13as we do in for example our existing heritage conservation district okay thank you last question

5:10:24once this study begins and the study comes forward and staff and councillor are comfortable

5:10:31with it and it is approved is that the point in time in which all conservation sort of regulations

5:10:39and preservation rules apply I'm only asking because our what is the threshold in which these

5:10:50conservation principles apply our do developers have time between now and the completion of this

5:10:55study council's ratification like are we going to see a run on development opportunities downtown

5:11:01because they're trying to avoid this district like I'm just just open air conversation yeah through

5:11:13the chair to the councillor so

5:11:18the properties have already been identified that are designated listed in the district so there's

5:11:22you know already some steps any individuals will have to go through if they're designated

5:11:27listen or adjacent to a designated or listed property which takes up most of downtown so

5:11:32there's already a process they have to go through I don't see a run on development applications

5:11:40we're not really seeing a run on development applications citywide right now so I don't see

5:11:45that will occur but if it occurs we'll go through the the heritage process that we have in effect

5:11:50today okay thanks very much I appreciate your comments Councillor Cronne yes thank you um

5:12:04and just in response because because you know I've helped a preface that it's an emotional issue

5:12:10I know we as a council including Councillor Gibson often you know articulate how important it is to

5:12:17me to make the decisions and my in my experience there's actually no evidence evidence that a

5:12:24heritage conservation district is due to development in fact there's a lot of evidence to the contrary

5:12:31the heritage resource centre out at the out of the University of Waterloo has done studies on

5:12:37on redevelopment restoration work the return on investment in the stability of tax

5:12:46tax rates and stability of property value now I do you know I would agree with Councillor

5:12:51Hudson there may be some down some down to owners who see it as an impediment but the overall

5:12:57general evidence that it actually is not an audit deterrent some investors actually prefer

5:13:05the the certainty of of the regulations in in can be developed and the additional assistance of

5:13:11the planning and helping to guide those those decisions um so so I'm really looking forward

5:13:19to this this is not new this something that has been talked about for a long time so

5:13:24seeing it come forward is is really exciting my my question the only question I did have is

5:13:31um the the quadrant in the boundary getting back to the reason why we're here is here is the map

5:13:37the quadrant in the boundary that includes Goldie Mill, Guelph Youth Music Centre,

5:13:41Nort Street Bridge, Halley's Inn and the Stewart Lumber site is a really hilly hint designated

5:13:50quant where we already have have prognostians I just just I'm I'm not I wonder if you could

5:13:58Councillor Caron your audio is cutting in and out so I'm going to ask you to repeat your last

5:14:02sentence please oh okay quadrant uh we're on Cardigan Street yep where uh Halley's Inn,

5:14:13Stewart Lumber, Goldie Mill, Guelph Youth Music Centre and the Nort Street Bridge,

5:14:21part four designations in that quadrant I just want to stand a little more why that area coming

5:14:29all the way to London is not included in the boundary and I I I really understand the

5:14:36references in the report as to why it's not included yeah help me um yeah through the chair

5:14:45to the councillor thank you I'm going to bring in our consultants on this uh so Rebecca I or

5:14:54I'll maybe have you answer that question if you don't mind sure thank you um through the chair

5:15:02I'm actually going to invite my committee members to uh respond to the question and I'll

5:15:08contribute uh further as movers so yeah Councillor Caron can you mute yourself please

5:15:14because we're getting echo in chambers now through the chair um this area that's north Woolwich

5:15:23Street is has been identified as a separate cultural heritage landscape in the cultural

5:15:30heritage action plan and is um far north from the study area that we were originally tasked to look at

5:15:39our original area um stopped around Woolwich and Aramosa Road at the north and boundary

5:15:48when we brought our findings to the public and to the heritage committee um there was suggestion

5:15:55that we extend the boundary north to the five points intersection at Woolwich, Norwich and Norfolk

5:16:02but there was no discussion about going any further north so that's um why that area has not been

5:16:08included thank you thank you Mayor Guthrie thank you manager I don't have any questions anymore

5:16:21they've been asked so I only have comments when you get to that we can just do the combo now okay

5:16:28very quickly I just want to say that uh I think the study area makes sense to me I think the report

5:16:34both from people who helped outside and internally was was good um and I'll just anecdotally I'll just

5:16:40say that when I do many many tours here of City Hall mostly actually with a ton of kids like from

5:16:48schools and stuff like that that come through and we go through the back hallway here and there's these

5:16:54huge massive green and black and white pictures that line the hallway you know there's always uh

5:17:00with the kids there's always some uh you know parents that are coming along for the ride and the

5:17:05teachers that are there as well and so what I'm trying to say is when they stop and look at those

5:17:10old pictures um the ooze and the awes and the and and comments from the young and the old that are

5:17:16there that say oh I wish I wish that was still here and they point to this and they point to that location

5:17:23so the generational sort of issue of trying to protect those things within our downtown that are

5:17:30important um I mean it it crosses like many generations and I think it's important even just

5:17:36through that simple lens of the kids and the teachers and the parents that walk through a hallway

5:17:41and look at what we've lost and uh and and there's this desire to to keep that that that beauty of

5:17:49the heritage of our downtown and uh and yeah I just think it's really important and I think if I remember

5:17:56correctly we were actually I think council was kind of uh like we we were struggling to figure

5:18:05how were we going to pay for this this study if I recall I remember a counselor downer I believe it

5:18:10might have been there was some extra money somewhere I forget what it was but it was like after budget

5:18:15I think it might have been maybe a surplus or something like that but counselor downer brought

5:18:19it forward and said you know what let's let's move forward with this project without having

5:18:25impact any taxes um might have been a grant or something anyways and uh it was okay sorry I'm

5:18:32maybe saying it wrong but it was anyways my point was it was a good idea counselor downer

5:18:37my point is that is that now we're here today uh and I guess I would just say with sequencing

5:18:43madam chair that this is uh similar to what we've just gone through with all the other reports that

5:18:48were ahead of us like let's get this established before the heights thing comes to us next and

5:18:54and more development starts coming within the downtown and I think my only you know concern

5:19:00and nobody would be surprised about this is that any hindrance to any type of development is going

5:19:04to make my spidey senses go off but I really feel that it is important to to protect this gem that

5:19:11we have down here so anyways I thought I would just tell that story of of the of the pictures in

5:19:16the hallway there because out of this 159 page report which is awesome sometimes it's just a

5:19:22few pictures in a hallway that can drive it home about the importance of trying to protect our

5:19:27downtown and the heritage and the culture that's there I think it's great so thank you very much

5:19:32happy to support this okay counselor downer thank you so just following up on that as a member of

5:19:40the dgba I did want to tell counsel that this has been before the dgba uh meetings several times

5:19:47it's been brought to the meetings uh the dgba is not objecting to it uh we had a good discussion

5:19:53where they thought that they talked about the pros and cons so they decided they what they

5:20:00discussed was they were you know they were concerned about what what barriers there might be but they

5:20:05actually thought those the devil will be in the details and they want to be engaged in the next

5:20:10part of the study uh they were interested in that and they also made note of the like as as

5:20:18mayor Guthrie has said that they recognize that the heritage in downtown guelph is what attract a lot

5:20:25of business into guelph um you look at doors open 7 000 people you look at you know part of the

5:20:32ambiance of the patios is the heritage part of a lot of what goes on downtown is to do with the

5:20:38heritage and they recognize that within the meeting so uh those are just some comments and

5:20:45summaries that I heard in the meeting and there was no motions to oppose it there was no motions

5:20:50not to talk about the boundaries they they just want to continue to be engaged in this process

5:20:58thanks councillor downer councillor Allt

5:21:03our work um I appreciate actually uh councillor downer having stated that because of my discussions

5:21:09with mr. nash it was very clear that uh there was indeed support for this I'd also like to reinforce

5:21:15that essentially we're not doing anything new we're taking the legacy of david crombie and

5:21:19jane jakel from the 1970s in Toronto and preserving heritage while blending it with the modern

5:21:26the best examples of that are actually in downtown Toronto the distillery district and kensington

5:21:31market uh union station was slated to be demolished in the 1970s and it was because of david crombie

5:21:37that's still there and the same with the royal york but we don't need to go that far we can look

5:21:42at allora and we can benefit from that and certainly we can benefit from some of the work of

5:21:47our own um heritage people uh and godfrey and margaret mckinnon who really cut their teeth on

5:21:54trying to preserve downtown wealth and some of the unique heritage features we didn't win them all but

5:22:00certainly we we did a very good job of doing exactly what councillor downer and others have

5:22:05stated uh I think that this is a good proposal and we can blend the modern with the old very

5:22:11effectively thank you councillor all councillor Klassen yes I will be very brief um I think a lot

5:22:21of my fellow colleagues wrapped up what I thought beautifully but I'll just add that um I think

5:22:27heritage is really important for the city of gualph particularly the downtown um and and having

5:22:33having framework in place like um the downtown heritage plan it will give us that sober second

5:22:41thought because once it's gone we don't get it back nobody's building the way we used to

5:22:49one notable thing about older constructions is that they're quite sustainable um and often those

5:22:56materials just end up in landfill so as we build a future we should be looking at how to integrate

5:23:03our old into the new and we can have both and I think uh that this will strike the balance between

5:23:09what we want for the future and how we can grow and incorporate more people into living and working

5:23:14downtown um but also preserving what we already have um and celebrating it so thanks for your work

5:23:20on this and uh looking forward to the next step thanks councillor Klassen so I just want to say

5:23:26I'm going to bring my comments back to the very first agenda item today which was the framework

5:23:31for indigenous relations I really appreciated that in the report we talk about how gualph was

5:23:39place for indigenous people and so we went way back I appreciated that there was reference to

5:23:44Samuel Deschamps-Lens and New France which we don't often acknowledge and so I really appreciated

5:23:52the way that the report was written to give us both a conservation plan for the future but also a

5:23:58really solid understanding of the past so well done to uh to the team that was involved and uh

5:24:07it's true that when we do illuminate gualph it's our old stone buildings that we're illuminating

5:24:11when we have postcards and all those things they are they are the heritage uh buildings that we

5:24:17cherish so we need to continue to do that so with that I don't see any other comments or questions

5:24:23I will call a vote on 10.1.5 recommendations one and two is anyone opposed seeing none that passes

5:24:33unanimously and that is the end of our meeting I am going to ask staff if you have any staff announcements

5:24:42as a service area chair I have no announcements so I'm going to ask for a motion to adjourn

5:24:49Councillor Klassen is going to move and Councillor Gibson is going to second that is anybody opposed

5:24:54no okay well done thanks thanks everybody thanks to our staff too for really putting together a

5:25:00comprehensive meeting we appreciate it