Recommendations of the Downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District Study Report (prepared by ASI and dated June 2024) be approved. That staff be directed to prepare a…

5:03:57study with thanks to our staff who've been here since 1.30 we appreciate you being here

5:04:03and the work that you have done we have heard the presentation so we're just gonna let staff

5:04:10come on down and I will start the speaker or the question list okay okay I got Claeson Gibson

5:04:20Kiron questions I'm just doing the question list while people get settled on heritage okay

5:04:31not yet I just want people to have a seat okay do I have a mover for recommendations one and two

5:04:42and items 10.1.5 downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District study Councillor Alton

5:04:47Councillor Goller okay so that is on the floor question from Councillor Klassen

5:04:57yes thank you through you chair O'Rourke to Mr. Malin thank you for the work on this I know that

5:05:03I've attended a couple of the sessions so I know what what degree of public consultation has gone

5:05:09into it my question is specifically around the guidelines and specifically referencing

5:05:19new builds and how they get integrated into our historic landscape so will there be any

5:05:28guidance with regard to design for new builds and how do how they become incorporated

5:05:37into the historic downtown thank you through the chair to the Councillor so tonight is about

5:05:50the boundary and the study area boundary so we're we're trying to focus it on that tonight the

5:05:55guidelines are the next step if council approves us to move forward we'll look at that we will look

5:06:00at new builds and how they interact with existing heritage properties listed and designated but

5:06:06that's not kind of we're not quite there yet I know that's you know kind of the nuts and bolts

5:06:11of everything that people want to see but we're not quite there yet we have to go through the

5:06:15heritage act process and establishing the boundary is first okay thank you that does answer my question

5:06:23Councillor Gibson thank you through you chair O'Rourke okay opinion time and just trigger warning

5:06:31everybody I have I have some questions and please don't let's just put our opinions and

5:06:35personal feelings aside for a second on the surface a conservation district study

5:06:41is set to preserve and I understand there's a really good a moral argument for preserving

5:06:48cultural heritage practically speaking on the ground it is another layer of of of I don't want

5:06:56to call it anything other than just bureaucracy to development and I'm not going to polarize the issue

5:07:05but I do see developments and developers perhaps being a little bit more reluctant to try and do

5:07:14projects within a heritage district because of that because of that layer of complexity

5:07:21I want to ask staff through this process will you be identifying like key city building sites and

5:07:30key city building opportunities that have already been expressed or are you predicting to be expressed

5:07:36and then extra well and reaching out to those landowners proactively to let them know that this

5:07:42this heritage district if it's in effect these are the new these are the new hurdles or new

5:07:47steps that you must take in order to work in this area I just I just want there to be a long leeway

5:07:53long runway for for landowners in the downtown to be aware of what is the potential new layer of

5:08:01of again complexity to developing their sites I'm trying to say that the nicest way possible

5:08:08because I just I know that to be true so maybe I'll hand it over to staff and ask for a response to

5:08:13that miss walkie thank you through the chair to councillor so the short answer is yes we will be

5:08:19reaching out as far as the complexity downtown is already complex with heritage elements and you'll

5:08:25see in the report map to identify it's all the listed and designated properties and as was indicated

5:08:32by staff in the presentation you know 63 percent of the downtown properties are already identified

5:08:37as that you'll also see in the report there's kind of the core downtown area but there's been identified

5:08:44renewal areas and neighborhood fringe areas so I think there's you know we've already kind of

5:08:50starting to set the stage that this is going to be different this is going to be unique and we do

5:08:55recognize that development is going to occur downtown we do want development to occur we want

5:08:59to take advantage of the you know the large infrastructure spending that we've just been

5:09:03talking about so but yes the original question will landowners be notified absolutely okay thank you

5:09:12and do staff see themselves having the capacity to work individually with those landowners

5:09:19in terms of like helping them through the the heritage designation process I only ask that because

5:09:26we selfishly speaking and I think collectively it's it's a comment and I know that it can be taken

5:09:32the wrong way but we do want progress in our downtown to continue and so maybe I'll just ask

5:09:39for staff's reassurance that they believe that progress can continue and that this this will add

5:09:44to the character of the downtown and not slow down what we want to see being done in the downtown

5:09:52so through the chair of the councillor so yes we do have the capacity we don't anticipate that on

5:09:57day one we're going to have a plethora of redevelopment applications that are impacting this

5:10:04as you know we see with development applications there's you know one or two a year maybe five a

5:10:09year so we do have the capacity to work with individual property owners as they go forward

5:10:13as we do in for example our existing heritage conservation district okay thank you last question

5:10:24once this study begins and the study comes forward and staff and councillor are comfortable

5:10:31with it and it is approved is that the point in time in which all conservation sort of regulations

5:10:39and preservation rules apply I'm only asking because our what is the threshold in which these

5:10:50conservation principles apply our do developers have time between now and the completion of this

5:10:55study council's ratification like are we going to see a run on development opportunities downtown

5:11:01because they're trying to avoid this district like I'm just just open air conversation yeah through

5:11:13the chair to the councillor so

5:11:18the properties have already been identified that are designated listed in the district so there's

5:11:22you know already some steps any individuals will have to go through if they're designated

5:11:27listen or adjacent to a designated or listed property which takes up most of downtown so

5:11:32there's already a process they have to go through I don't see a run on development applications

5:11:40we're not really seeing a run on development applications citywide right now so I don't see

5:11:45that will occur but if it occurs we'll go through the the heritage process that we have in effect

5:11:50today okay thanks very much I appreciate your comments Councillor Cronne yes thank you um

5:12:04and just in response because because you know I've helped a preface that it's an emotional issue

5:12:10I know we as a council including Councillor Gibson often you know articulate how important it is to

5:12:17me to make the decisions and my in my experience there's actually no evidence evidence that a

5:12:24heritage conservation district is due to development in fact there's a lot of evidence to the contrary

5:12:31the heritage resource centre out at the out of the University of Waterloo has done studies on

5:12:37on redevelopment restoration work the return on investment in the stability of tax

5:12:46tax rates and stability of property value now I do you know I would agree with Councillor

5:12:51Hudson there may be some down some down to owners who see it as an impediment but the overall

5:12:57general evidence that it actually is not an audit deterrent some investors actually prefer

5:13:05the the certainty of of the regulations in in can be developed and the additional assistance of

5:13:11the planning and helping to guide those those decisions um so so I'm really looking forward

5:13:19to this this is not new this something that has been talked about for a long time so

5:13:24seeing it come forward is is really exciting my my question the only question I did have is

5:13:31um the the quadrant in the boundary getting back to the reason why we're here is here is the map

5:13:37the quadrant in the boundary that includes Goldie Mill, Guelph Youth Music Centre,

5:13:41Nort Street Bridge, Halley's Inn and the Stewart Lumber site is a really hilly hint designated

5:13:50quant where we already have have prognostians I just just I'm I'm not I wonder if you could

5:13:58Councillor Caron your audio is cutting in and out so I'm going to ask you to repeat your last

5:14:02sentence please oh okay quadrant uh we're on Cardigan Street yep where uh Halley's Inn,

5:14:13Stewart Lumber, Goldie Mill, Guelph Youth Music Centre and the Nort Street Bridge,

5:14:21part four designations in that quadrant I just want to stand a little more why that area coming

5:14:29all the way to London is not included in the boundary and I I I really understand the

5:14:36references in the report as to why it's not included yeah help me um yeah through the chair

5:14:45to the councillor thank you I'm going to bring in our consultants on this uh so Rebecca I or

5:14:54I'll maybe have you answer that question if you don't mind sure thank you um through the chair

5:15:02I'm actually going to invite my committee members to uh respond to the question and I'll

5:15:08contribute uh further as movers so yeah Councillor Caron can you mute yourself please

5:15:14because we're getting echo in chambers now through the chair um this area that's north Woolwich

5:15:23Street is has been identified as a separate cultural heritage landscape in the cultural

5:15:30heritage action plan and is um far north from the study area that we were originally tasked to look at

5:15:39our original area um stopped around Woolwich and Aramosa Road at the north and boundary

5:15:48when we brought our findings to the public and to the heritage committee um there was suggestion

5:15:55that we extend the boundary north to the five points intersection at Woolwich, Norwich and Norfolk

5:16:02but there was no discussion about going any further north so that's um why that area has not been

5:16:08included thank you thank you Mayor Guthrie thank you manager I don't have any questions anymore

5:16:21they've been asked so I only have comments when you get to that we can just do the combo now okay

5:16:28very quickly I just want to say that uh I think the study area makes sense to me I think the report

5:16:34both from people who helped outside and internally was was good um and I'll just anecdotally I'll just

5:16:40say that when I do many many tours here of City Hall mostly actually with a ton of kids like from

5:16:48schools and stuff like that that come through and we go through the back hallway here and there's these

5:16:54huge massive green and black and white pictures that line the hallway you know there's always uh

5:17:00with the kids there's always some uh you know parents that are coming along for the ride and the

5:17:05teachers that are there as well and so what I'm trying to say is when they stop and look at those

5:17:10old pictures um the ooze and the awes and the and and comments from the young and the old that are

5:17:16there that say oh I wish I wish that was still here and they point to this and they point to that location

5:17:23so the generational sort of issue of trying to protect those things within our downtown that are

5:17:30important um I mean it it crosses like many generations and I think it's important even just

5:17:36through that simple lens of the kids and the teachers and the parents that walk through a hallway

5:17:41and look at what we've lost and uh and and there's this desire to to keep that that that beauty of

5:17:49the heritage of our downtown and uh and yeah I just think it's really important and I think if I remember

5:17:56correctly we were actually I think council was kind of uh like we we were struggling to figure

5:18:05how were we going to pay for this this study if I recall I remember a counselor downer I believe it

5:18:10might have been there was some extra money somewhere I forget what it was but it was like after budget

5:18:15I think it might have been maybe a surplus or something like that but counselor downer brought

5:18:19it forward and said you know what let's let's move forward with this project without having

5:18:25impact any taxes um might have been a grant or something anyways and uh it was okay sorry I'm

5:18:32maybe saying it wrong but it was anyways my point was it was a good idea counselor downer

5:18:37my point is that is that now we're here today uh and I guess I would just say with sequencing

5:18:43madam chair that this is uh similar to what we've just gone through with all the other reports that

5:18:48were ahead of us like let's get this established before the heights thing comes to us next and

5:18:54and more development starts coming within the downtown and I think my only you know concern

5:19:00and nobody would be surprised about this is that any hindrance to any type of development is going

5:19:04to make my spidey senses go off but I really feel that it is important to to protect this gem that

5:19:11we have down here so anyways I thought I would just tell that story of of the of the pictures in

5:19:16the hallway there because out of this 159 page report which is awesome sometimes it's just a

5:19:22few pictures in a hallway that can drive it home about the importance of trying to protect our

5:19:27downtown and the heritage and the culture that's there I think it's great so thank you very much

5:19:32happy to support this okay counselor downer thank you so just following up on that as a member of

5:19:40the dgba I did want to tell counsel that this has been before the dgba uh meetings several times

5:19:47it's been brought to the meetings uh the dgba is not objecting to it uh we had a good discussion

5:19:53where they thought that they talked about the pros and cons so they decided they what they

5:20:00discussed was they were you know they were concerned about what what barriers there might be but they

5:20:05actually thought those the devil will be in the details and they want to be engaged in the next

5:20:10part of the study uh they were interested in that and they also made note of the like as as

5:20:18mayor Guthrie has said that they recognize that the heritage in downtown guelph is what attract a lot

5:20:25of business into guelph um you look at doors open 7 000 people you look at you know part of the

5:20:32ambiance of the patios is the heritage part of a lot of what goes on downtown is to do with the

5:20:38heritage and they recognize that within the meeting so uh those are just some comments and

5:20:45summaries that I heard in the meeting and there was no motions to oppose it there was no motions

5:20:50not to talk about the boundaries they they just want to continue to be engaged in this process

5:20:58thanks councillor downer councillor Allt

5:21:03our work um I appreciate actually uh councillor downer having stated that because of my discussions

5:21:09with mr. nash it was very clear that uh there was indeed support for this I'd also like to reinforce

5:21:15that essentially we're not doing anything new we're taking the legacy of david crombie and

5:21:19jane jakel from the 1970s in Toronto and preserving heritage while blending it with the modern

5:21:26the best examples of that are actually in downtown Toronto the distillery district and kensington

5:21:31market uh union station was slated to be demolished in the 1970s and it was because of david crombie

5:21:37that's still there and the same with the royal york but we don't need to go that far we can look

5:21:42at allora and we can benefit from that and certainly we can benefit from some of the work of

5:21:47our own um heritage people uh and godfrey and margaret mckinnon who really cut their teeth on

5:21:54trying to preserve downtown wealth and some of the unique heritage features we didn't win them all but

5:22:00certainly we we did a very good job of doing exactly what councillor downer and others have

5:22:05stated uh I think that this is a good proposal and we can blend the modern with the old very

5:22:11effectively thank you councillor all councillor Klassen yes I will be very brief um I think a lot

5:22:21of my fellow colleagues wrapped up what I thought beautifully but I'll just add that um I think

5:22:27heritage is really important for the city of gualph particularly the downtown um and and having

5:22:33having framework in place like um the downtown heritage plan it will give us that sober second

5:22:41thought because once it's gone we don't get it back nobody's building the way we used to

5:22:49one notable thing about older constructions is that they're quite sustainable um and often those

5:22:56materials just end up in landfill so as we build a future we should be looking at how to integrate

5:23:03our old into the new and we can have both and I think uh that this will strike the balance between

5:23:09what we want for the future and how we can grow and incorporate more people into living and working

5:23:14downtown um but also preserving what we already have um and celebrating it so thanks for your work

5:23:20on this and uh looking forward to the next step thanks councillor Klassen so I just want to say

5:23:26I'm going to bring my comments back to the very first agenda item today which was the framework

5:23:31for indigenous relations I really appreciated that in the report we talk about how gualph was

5:23:39place for indigenous people and so we went way back I appreciated that there was reference to

5:23:44Samuel Deschamps-Lens and New France which we don't often acknowledge and so I really appreciated

5:23:52the way that the report was written to give us both a conservation plan for the future but also a

5:23:58really solid understanding of the past so well done to uh to the team that was involved and uh

5:24:07it's true that when we do illuminate gualph it's our old stone buildings that we're illuminating

5:24:11when we have postcards and all those things they are they are the heritage uh buildings that we

5:24:17cherish so we need to continue to do that so with that I don't see any other comments or questions

5:24:23I will call a vote on 10.1.5 recommendations one and two is anyone opposed seeing none that passes

5:24:33unanimously and that is the end of our meeting I am going to ask staff if you have any staff announcements

5:24:42as a service area chair I have no announcements so I'm going to ask for a motion to adjourn