Staff to discuss an innovation opportunity with the University of Guelph to design a fluid alternative to the current perfumed options for portable toilets to increase…

4:03:16public washrooms in gwellf we've heard the staff presentation do we have our delegation

4:03:22clerks no we do not okay so we've tried to reach miss watson a number of times and uh and she's not

4:03:29available we do have correspondence from her on one of the agenda items however so i'm going to go

4:03:33to questions you have a question margothry uh no i was happy to do do you want a table sure okay

4:03:42counselor class then what's the second yeah counselor class in a second and we have motions

4:03:50around this one so go ahead did you have any questions counselor class in yes thank you um

4:04:04okay so my first question is regarding um the inclusion of the appropriate underground

4:04:09infrastructure to facilitate the installation of a self-cleaning washroom um my question is

4:04:17is the reason why it's just the infrastructure and not the full washroom uh through you mad

4:04:25through you madame chair to counselor class the reason was just uh we all recognize that it is very

4:04:31tight uh budget year um so we thought it was important to get that underground infrastructure

4:04:36in place and then be able to make that decision at a later time um when maybe budget was more available

4:04:44okay thank you um it's no secret that i'm bringing forward a motion with regard to this item so

4:04:50i might have been leading a little bit into the next question that i have which is around um

4:04:55a question i actually received from a resident which is around the potential for federal funding

4:05:00grants so uh i was sent um an article from the city of water lou who received i think i you know

4:05:08i don't quote me but probably around 250 000 for the installation of a public washroom and i just

4:05:15was wondering if you could speak a little bit to the availability of those types of funds um and and

4:05:21perhaps you know some of the things that would make us more attractive for those types of funding

4:05:32through the chair to counselor clausen thanks for the question we uh have been looking this

4:05:37afternoon into funding programs that may be available we are aware of one federal government

4:05:41program for which a washroom like this would likely qualify for up to 200 000 that program is

4:05:47currently closed um it closed in june but it is a program that has had multiple intakes and could

4:05:53be expected to have another intake so certainly uh as council considers this matter this evening

4:05:59we could continue to look for future federal and provincial grant programs that could facilitate

4:06:04a portion of of the costs okay thank you and just one more than on that matter um so with regard to

4:06:12i think that the water city of water lou received special funding uh to make their washroom more

4:06:18accessible um and so i was wondering if if we were to approve this motion with regard to a self-cleaning

4:06:24washroom um would that help us qualify for for funding as well uh through you madam chair yes

4:06:31the the funding that jody jody was speaking to was sort of more directed towards the the accessibility

4:06:37aspects of that washroom sorry through you madam chair thank you um and okay and finally

4:06:49so again would and we would so we would be looking through the that lens i i don't have to ask that

4:06:53question again um i think that's all for me and i will just um say that i will be bringing for that

4:07:00motion whenever appropriate and seconded by um mayor Guthrie mayor Guthrie moved the recommendation

4:07:10you seconded this series of recommendations yeah so when we get to your motion you can table it

4:07:16we'll put it up and then we'll do the okay okay all right any other questions on 10.1.4

4:07:27council katin and council billings madam chair um i was just wondering because we've specifically

4:07:35outlined um the self-cleaning washrooms do we need to change that just in case we don't have

4:07:41the self-cleaning washrooms or is it okay to leave that in the motion knowing that those pipes

4:07:47will work for any type of washroom uh through you madam chair the pipes that we would install

4:07:56would work for any type of washer so it could be for a non-self-cleaning one that's just what staff

4:08:02were recommending as a result of what the research that we've done to date great thank you

4:08:08council billings do you madam chair um i just wanted to ask like so for for many years you

4:08:16know we talked about having the washrooms down at uh glow central station so is that money for those

4:08:22washrooms still in the budget or has that been removed um through you madam chair if we can

4:08:36just get some clarification is that sort of the new terminal building that we anticipate in the

4:08:40future so just to be clear any money in the budget right now for washrooms in that location

4:08:52are you referring to the train station or are you referring to the future transit station

4:08:59i'm referring to the future transit but but even before that years ago i believed we had

4:09:05money in there for washrooms so i just want clarity if there's any money in the capital

4:09:12budget for washrooms in that area because in the report it states two locations so it seems that

4:09:20st george's square seems to be an area where one washroom could go and so the second one

4:09:26i'm just asking if are we counting down by you know the uh the the bus and and the train station

4:09:35if we're counting that area as where the second location was going to be and if so is there any

4:09:41money currently in the budget for those washrooms uh so through the chair to council billings um

4:09:49in last year's adopted budget that money for that transit terminal building uh was in there and

4:09:54council would have seen it of course as miss baker said we're not finished the process of

4:09:58completing the budget for this year and so i can't answer as to specifically what will be in the

4:10:04budget that is presented to you but it was included in last year's adopted budget that that transit

4:10:08terminal building uh was still in the forecast um and that does include washrooms the gwell

4:10:14central station current building that is uh not owned by the city anymore i think as everyone is

4:10:20aware um we have been working with metro links to talk to them about the possibility of getting

4:10:25those public washrooms reopened but at this point for safety reasons um they are uh closed

4:10:31and then the only other washrooms just for clarification are the ones that are in the

4:10:35market square pavilion um just if we're talking about washrooms along cardin street and those

4:10:41are currently open uh whenever the rink or water feature is operating correct so through you madam

4:10:49chair i'm i'm still trying to drill down on in the report it asked for at least two locations

4:10:56so let's just maybe assume st georgia square area is one and because you're putting in infrastructure

4:11:04where is the second location uh through you madam chair uh what the way that the recommendation

4:11:11is structured is that through each phase of the downtown infrastructure renewal program we look at

4:11:15opportunities to include the underground infrastructure for washrooms so we would continue

4:11:20to look at where those locations would be appropriate um so i don't have an answer for you on

4:11:25where a second washroom could be but st georgia square certainly presents as an option currently

4:11:31and we would continue to look at this through each phase of the downtown infrastructure project

4:11:37okay and then also through you madam chair i guess i guess to to call in you know you mentioned

4:11:44down market square but we also have the washrooms in city hall like when it's after hours and and

4:11:53like the service desk is closed up is it not possible that we could have those washrooms

4:12:00available for public use after hours through the chair to council billings we certainly have done

4:12:07that during um extreme weather alerts so cold weather or in the summer in heat alerts um there

4:12:13is an added cost of opening the washrooms in terms of staffing because we don't have staff in the

4:12:17building um necessarily at the front desk and so that we do have to uh we would have to factor

4:12:22in the cost of opening the building outside of our regular hours so i say we've done it on a

4:12:26case by case basis when extreme weather either in the summer or the winter has been a factor

4:12:34okay because through you madam chair to calling because it's stated in the report these washrooms

4:12:39were to be staffed to what degree then because you just spoke about what it would have to be if it

4:12:47was at city hall so what's your definition of staff then through you madam chair um the staffing

4:12:58component would would mean that there were regular check-ins on the washroom so um not necessarily

4:13:03somebody sitting right outside the washroom sort of monitoring them constantly but making sure that

4:13:08there is constant checking in on them so um the report also talks about monitoring through um

4:13:14sort of tech technology like um the brave system and those types of things but that would alert

4:13:19potential outreach workers or bylaw or police um if there were somebody needed but having sort of

4:13:25regular check-ins on those public washrooms um when they're open okay thanks okay any other

4:13:33questions on this item i've got a couple the first one is um we are talking about 24 7 access to

4:13:42washrooms downtown but there's also a component that talks about winterized washrooms throughout our

4:13:47park system right so i'm just wondering have we looked at the roi on that and what are the

4:13:55considerations and the reason i ask the question is we have the asset management right plan we know

4:14:02that the more expensive our assets are the more expensive they are going to be to replace in the

4:14:06future so is there a very high use for winterized washrooms are currently three season but what is

4:14:15the cost impact of having to winterize them having to heat them so the pipes don't burst having to

4:14:19maintain them um i'm just curious about that so i'm eager to see a washroom that's planned for

4:14:25ornery park but is this what is the cost difference in terms of winterizing washrooms going forward

4:14:33and then what's our future replacement cost on that to you madam chair um we have been working

4:14:39with our um colleagues in parks on this question um so the parks and rec master plan also provided

4:14:45some direction and recommendations about foresees and use of public washrooms so the approach that

4:14:49we are currently taking is that as we introduce new washrooms or replace washrooms that's when we

4:14:56would sort of have foresees and use rather than upgrading existing ones so again one of the options

4:15:03i know parks has looked at is like again those urban blue type units that have that insulated

4:15:09component so yes they do need to be insulated so that the the pipes don't freeze and those types

4:15:14of things we know based on um the use of portable washrooms that are currently placed where permanent

4:15:21washrooms are for the winter that they are used i can't give you a specific data on numbers or

4:15:27amounts but they are used um so again i think that ROI in terms of quality of life and having people

4:15:35in our public spaces in our parks in four seasons is what we're after here um and that the there is

4:15:42utilization in the winter months and it would hopefully increase with access to those um important

4:15:49things facilities okay thanks and then my other question is for DCO Clackbush i just want to give

4:15:55you an opportunity to perhaps speak to some of the assertions that are made in the research document

4:16:01that was presented and you know one line in particular that struck me and i know it can't be

4:16:06true so um there is an assertion in that document that says the porta potties are not maintained

4:16:13and so can you give me an idea or can you give assurances to the public that they are in fact

4:16:17maintained and what the process is if they notice that they are not at the standard that they should be

4:16:24thank you uh to work for the question um so the porta potties we do contract out through a third

4:16:30party provider um but there is an expectation in terms of maintenance and so um it is not

4:16:36something that we've been receiving regular concerns about but if there are concerns that

4:16:40people have about the porta potties we absolutely want to hear that because then we will make sure

4:16:44that they are getting serviced as quickly as possible um but anytime there ever has been an

4:16:49issue uh the company's really good um we follow up with them and we make sure that they come and

4:16:53and look after it if there's ever an incident but they do regularly service those porta potties

4:16:57that's part of our contract with them um but certainly if anybody ever did uh notice an issue

4:17:02with uh the washrooms then uh they could just probably the best would be to contact uh either

4:17:07through service qualif or through our bylaw department and we make sure that we uh looked into it right

4:17:12away okay great thank you no questions no more comments i know we have amendments

4:17:22so i am going to go to councillor Klassen first it's a new clause uh are there any amendments

4:17:36to the motions that have been tabled councillor Caton yes thank you um i have an amendment to

4:17:451014 number six i'm sure if this staff have that on the screen yep clerks are going to put it up

4:17:57in just a sec so my amendment is that the inclusion of accessible and gender neutral

4:18:07options be prioritized for new modified or upgraded public washroom facilities instead of

4:18:15considered i think that human rights is something that we should be prioritizing and we have

4:18:22less options in the accessible and gender neutral categories than we do anything else

4:18:28so it should be something that we are beefing up in terms of quality do you have a seconder

4:18:35okay councillor Allt any questions

4:18:39yeah mayor guthrie thank you madam chair i'm just wondering why why why did it take a councillor

4:18:46katin to to do an amendment with that word like what was the reasoning behind considered versus

4:18:53the way it's been tabled now it was there must be some reasons for the way it was worded originally

4:19:01through you madam chair really the intent was to make sure that they are included in future the

4:19:06development of future public washrooms so prioritized or continue to be considered i think

4:19:10either works for us but the important thing is that they continue to be considered when we build

4:19:16new washrooms okay so if through you madam chair so if this had not been tabled as an amendment

4:19:30the the human rights and accessibility and all that would have been a default position of staff

4:19:35anyways that's through you madam chair that's correct that's what i thought okay thank you

4:19:41okay i'm going to call the vote on the amendment is anybody opposed

4:19:48mayor guthrie is opposed the motion carries okay um we could vote on all of the motions

4:19:57as presented and then we have two more additional clauses okay so i'm going to call the vote

4:20:03on recommendations one through seven as amended is anybody opposed okay so that's

4:20:11unanimous as well so i'm going to go to councillor Klassen uh yes thank you so

4:20:20i already have alluded to i'm just pulling up the the words for my for myself here um i've already

4:20:25alluded to the fact that i wanted to bring forward um a motion for a self-cleaning washroom

4:20:31as part of the windom and st. george's square redevelopment

4:20:38i think this is really important we've seen it you know i'm just repeating what

4:20:43mrs. Laughlin has has already pointed out there are self-cleaning washrooms in allora

4:20:48in waterloo and i can't remember the third one you mentioned um and i've had the opportunity to

4:20:53also use self-cleaning washrooms first in allora but also in in other places as well

4:20:59and i think that it's a it's an important addition and um in consideration of some of the work

4:21:05that councillor roark has been doing with the basic needs working group i think it aligns

4:21:10really well with our need for public facilities downtown um and i think this prioritizes and

4:21:19also makes it happen and not just the infrastructure right away and i really want to thank staff for

4:21:23working with me on this um kind of done it without you really um so the motion is worded

4:21:30that staff include the installation of a self-cleaning public washroom as part of the windom

4:21:34street st george's square redevelopment subject to budget adoption through the 2025 budget confirmation

4:21:40and i believe that mayor guthrie will be seconding do you second that mayor guthrie i will second it

4:21:51put it on the floor but i just have a follow-up question to um as long as the mover is is done

4:21:57so it's up to you up to you did you want to finish comments um i think i've said it all really i

4:22:05changing the wording makes it happen as part of the redevelopment rather than just putting in the

4:22:10infrastructure um and i think that um we know what happens when we don't commit to washrooms

4:22:18downtown i think that um counselor um sorry i'm spacing out counselor billings thank you

4:22:28alluded to the fact that there was money in in the budget previously for washrooms potentially

4:22:34and it hasn't happened i know we've had some discussion around washrooms there are some currently

4:22:40but having a solution that is both permanent and clean and that has the potential for federal funding

4:22:47for potential accessible unit as well i think would be something that we we should consider

4:22:53in in the immediate future thank you mayor guthrie you had a question and then councillor

4:22:59boost tell yeah thank you and maybe through you uh chair just to staff i just wanted to know i'm

4:23:04just uh maybe a little bit concerned about uh the last line of that motion it says and to be

4:23:10included in 2025 budget but the like the actual construction and everything doesn't even happen

4:23:18until 2026 and then it might not even it might not even be installed until like 2027 so i'm just

4:23:25wondering maybe if uh i could make an amendment to just say within the downtown renewal construction

4:23:33project or something like that that that gives that gives the opportunity to have it have the

4:23:38money placed in the year that it that it's actually coming to fruition instead of you know putting

4:23:46you know 300 000 dollars into a budget for next year but this not even it's not even needed so um

4:23:51can i just get comments from staff on on that am i am i reading that right am i positioning it wrong

4:23:56i just want to make sure i understand yeah through you madam chair it would be unlikely that we would

4:24:01sort of order a unit or anything until closer to the end of like the windom project um because we

4:24:07wouldn't want to install it until construction is nearing completion so again likely that might be a

4:24:132027 um budget impact although in terms of how we tender things i might look to see if miss

4:24:21baker had other comments but i think there would be opportunities for um that to be in the 2027 budget

4:24:28okay so yeah uh through you madam chair we'll just wait for tera i guess to answer then i might

4:24:32just i might just change the ending then uh just uh about that um so uh through through the chair to

4:24:39mayor got three we had complete we had put the 25 budget confirmation in there because that's the

4:24:45process like that's the that's the the confirmation budget will include a 10 year capital plan and

4:24:51so we will put it in to the correct year but through the 25 confirmation was the reasoning for that date

4:24:59very well explained i'll just leave it alone thank you very much

4:25:04okay margaret any other questions i'm going to councillor boostill thank you just to be

4:25:08clear uh for the motion because i i didn't quite read it so this is uh permanent self-cleaning

4:25:15autonomous uh toilets in addition to the community toilet scheme and the public washrooms and all the

4:25:23other downtown developments is is that like it's a permanent after the infrastructure downtown renewal

4:25:31there would be some kind of a self-cleaning permanent is that did i get that right through you

4:25:42madam chair um my understanding is that it would be permanent um and that if i'm if i'm you know i'm

4:25:51looking to staff as well actually right now it would be part of the plans it wouldn't be in addition

4:25:57to it would be one of the recommendations it would just be happening now instead of at some point in

4:26:03the future uh through you madam chair that's correct so the way that the original staff

4:26:09recommendation was worded was that through the downtown infrastructure renewal project we would

4:26:13install the underground infrastructure to support the the self-cleaning or autonomous public washroom

4:26:20and what councillor class in's motion is intended to do is to provide direction to actually install

4:26:26sort of the above ground the the key pieces of the washroom that people need to use it not just

4:26:30the pipes underground so they would be it would work together with the recommendations that were

4:26:35included in the staff report thank you uh through through you madam chair just picking up on what

4:26:40the mayor has said i'm still a little bit confused i understood the motion about the the infrastructure

4:26:45the underground you know pipes and so on but then i'm not clear on when the capital the actual

4:26:52you know um facility comes is it within 10 years because it's a 10-year budget but what i'm

4:27:00hearing and please correct me as it's happening concurrently so i just want expectations it's

4:27:07infrastructure is one and within 10 years comes the piece that goes on top of it just so i'm clear

4:27:13through you madam chair um from my perspective what councillor class in's motion would do would

4:27:19be to say it should be included in the phase of the downtown infrastructure project that is the

4:27:24windom street in st. George's square phase so that's the first phase so it would be yes in the 10-year

4:27:30capital but more specifically um we would be looking to finish that project up in 2027 so the

4:27:35actual capital investment of the public washroom would be 2027 sorry it's just through the clerks

4:27:59kind of the motion back up again sorry i didn't quite finish thank you okay councillor boostill did

4:28:38you have another question you asked to have it put up you still have the floor thank you no i

4:28:44understand the budget adoption the capital budget adoption 10-year forecast i'm just a little bit

4:28:48confused around expectations and i'm hearing you know if there's a grant it'll help with that i'm

4:28:54just trying to uh understand expectations of when this is going to happen how it's funded and what's

4:29:00getting off the the budget um capital budget for for this okay thanks um i'll actually ask staff

4:29:10a question um if we are to apply for a grant then does that project have to be in our capital plan

4:29:19like we have to apply for something that we are planning on doing so just putting it in the capital

4:29:24plan as a project help us in a grant application to you chair work um typically we try to focus

4:29:34our grant efforts on projects that we know our council approved and we look to our 10-year capital

4:29:39forecast to identify those projects and so certainly this motion tonight gives us clarity that this is

4:29:44direction that council wants us to pursue from a granting program um perspective if that's helpful

4:29:49for you that is helpful okay so we have councillor class and motions on the floor america 3 is not

4:29:57amending it uh councillor heyton i know has an amendment councillor all do you have a question

4:30:02or an amendment a question that i believe that for staff um when i read the motion what concerns me

4:30:11two two concerns um one is um the precise location uh the way that it reads is windham slash

4:30:19st george square and i was wondering if staff could comment uh with some consideration of

4:30:26location uh i appreciate that maybe st george is square is the most convenient place for it but

4:30:33i'm also concerned about um the logistics of st george is square and the aesthetics as well

4:30:40or whether we would be looking anywhere on windham street so so councillor Allt the motion says as a part

4:30:45of the windham street st george square redevelopment so it could be anywhere in there could i have staff

4:30:53comment on that please yep through you madam chair um yes we would look at locations through

4:31:01the detailed design of windham street and then we are going to go through an exercise for st

4:31:05george square to develop a concept plan so i think through the concept plan for st george square

4:31:11leading into the detailed design for st george square and the detailed design of windham street

4:31:15as a whole that is where we would look for any opportunity so it could be a long windham and

4:31:19it could be in the square thank you the next question um i think this is perhaps to our

4:31:25environmental and our water staff is because i know nothing about self-cleaning washrooms

4:31:32nor the chemicals that are used nor nor the water consumption uh do we have any concerns about the

4:31:38environmental water impacts mr tampocopolis good evening uh no we don't have any concerns

4:31:49around any environmental impacts thank you okay yeah i just want to take uh a couple of seconds

4:32:01i know councillor Caton has an amendment one of our councillors has had to step out for just a

4:32:05second it's her motion that's on the floor so i just want to take a couple of minutes and give

4:32:10councillor claus and the chance to come back councillor Caton did you want to introduce your

4:32:17or did you want to speak to your amendment before you table it i think all members of council should

4:32:21be present when you table it um is councillor claus and that like i would like to wait for her

4:32:30sorry yep she's back okay thank you through you i really like the the idea and the intent

4:32:39of councillor claus and's motion i think that having a washroom that is uh self-cleaning is

4:32:45fantastic in in theory but currently um there is a lot of accessibility concerns i have with those

4:32:55so myself i have a environmental disability and so i react to perfume products and high

4:33:02voc products and there are three to five percent of the population who has something at my level

4:33:06and 20 who reacts to perfumes in a much more dramatic way than the general population but not

4:33:13as much as me so um while the chemicals used may not have an environmental impact they don't

4:33:19necessarily remove the fact that they could have an accessibility impact so i don't want to jump on

4:33:26that as being the only option when we have standard washrooms that can also be used where we're more

4:33:32in control of the products being used in them so my amendment by substitution is that staff

4:33:39investigate the installation of a self-cleaning public washroom as a part of the windham street

4:33:43st george square redevelopment and report back on cost accessibility aac feedback an environmental

4:33:50impact assessment comparison of a non-self-cleaning washroom in advance of the 2026 budget confirmation

4:33:57and i had discussed this with staff and they said that this would be

4:34:01within the timeline that we could decide and also give them enough time to actually complete the

4:34:05process okay do you have a seconder councillor Caton yes um councillor Allt councillor Allt okay questions

4:34:15merrigath three thank you and through you um this whole project uh not just including the

4:34:20bathrooms that are being discussed right now but everything is it going to flow through

4:34:25naturally through feedback through the aac anyways through you madam chair yes that's correct okay

4:34:34thank you i won't be supporting this then okay any other questions on the amendment um

4:34:46yeah i just have a question for staff in terms of the environmental impact assessment comparison

4:34:55i'm just wondering what kind of workload that is like we know that there are cities that have these

4:34:59right um so i'm just wondering if this increases the workload uh to you madam chair it certainly is

4:35:08sort of an added project or adding component to the project yes okay councillor Klassen has a question

4:35:16yes sorry about that um through you chair or work i just i had a question with regard to

4:35:23um the amendment it's i'm just curious can we can we not have both like does the self cleaning

4:35:31washroom with the accessible options can there be also accessible options explored in the other

4:35:37washrooms or would it not be also explored like i specifically am thinking about the waterloo

4:35:43example again and they have a self cleaning washroom that is accessible to a certain extent i

4:35:48don't have the details of that right in front of me um would that not be part of the the process

4:35:53for looking at these units and if so would we need to report back could we could we leave that to you

4:36:04through you madam chair we do know um that the unit in waterloo was reviewed by accessibility

4:36:10committees um over there so yes there are definitely accessibility options that can be

4:36:15added to these types of units and certainly accessibility would is an important consideration

4:36:21for staff when we're doing any project and we would get into all of those details through

4:36:26detailed design so if council were to provide direction that we actually install one of these

4:36:32through downtown infrastructure that's when we would start to look at all of the details and the

4:36:36supplier and compare whether it is actually the sort of autonomous self cleaning washroom that

4:36:41we want to proceed with or a more traditional washroom um but that would that's sort of a new

4:36:46thing for Guelph to look at those self cleaning washrooms so that's why we've got that wording in

4:36:50there now. Councillor Gibson you had a question? I guess it's just a question slash comment so

4:36:59operational experience is something that's pretty standard either the industry and i'm sure it was

4:37:03across municipalities as well um if waterloo has gone through this process just in order to help

4:37:09things move more efficiently is is there is there an opportunity for information and data

4:37:13sharing between Guelph and Waterloo to determine best practices on this how they achieved accessibility

4:37:21standards and perhaps um help just help to work more efficiently. Through you Madam Chair certainly

4:37:30um but those would be our next steps would be to reach out to municipalities and understand their

4:37:34experiences and again not just Waterloo but also St. Catharines and Ellora and understand

4:37:41their experiences with them so that would inform how we move forward um so yes. Those are my

4:37:46sentiments as well I think that we can take a learned approach to to this process we don't

4:37:51have to start from square one and learn it all ourselves when other municipalities who are good

4:37:56relationships to us have have that information so I appreciate it thank you. Councillor Buse

4:38:01Tilde do you have a question? Yes thank you and through uh Chair or just the staff I think what

4:38:08I just heard I see this motion as exploring the viability through a number of different lenses of

4:38:15the self-cleaning versus I think the words use um a more traditional kind of washroom and what I'm

4:38:22missing is does that come back to council or is that staff's decision to say we explored the two

4:38:28of these and one is more effective in terms of longer life and maintenance I don't know those

4:38:35kinds of things through those lens or uh yeah if you could just clarify. Yeah through you Madam

4:38:42Chair um ahead of tonight we hadn't planned to come back with a recommendation on the exact

4:38:48design of the washroom that we would install um that would sort of be through the detailed design

4:38:53project of Wyndham Street so we hadn't planned to come back with those types of things unless

4:38:58there was a large decision that we felt we needed council direction on. Thank you and through the

4:39:05Chair just to supplement just so I'm clear I'm trying to differentiate between Councillor Clausson's

4:39:10and Councillor Keaton's substitution um do they both achieve the same ends of staff directed to

4:39:20look at self-cleaning versus more traditional and you said you already do the lens of accessibility

4:39:27and cost and operating and so on like are they are they the same except one is more explicit.

4:39:39Yeah so through you Madam Chair I through our detailed design work we would be looking at sort of

4:39:44all of the options um I think for me the difference between the the two motions is that one is that

4:39:49we we would have to report back to council which in terms of detailed design and moving a project

4:39:54forward can sometimes um add time to a project so that would be the main difference for me is

4:40:00the reporting back aspect um between the two motions. Yeah just final just so I'm absolutely

4:40:07clear so regardless of of which motion goes forward staff will take this away do their analysis

4:40:15through all those good lenses you know and make the best decision on those parameters of operating

4:40:22and cost and you know accessibility and everything else is that correct. Through you Madam Chair yes

4:40:28that's correct. Councillor Goller. Thank you through Chair O'Rourke but based on what I've heard

4:40:36and thank you to Councillor Peruzio for asking those questions from staff I'm not going to be

4:40:41supporting the amendment by substitution I believe that it adds unnecessarily time to staff and time

4:40:48to the project when I believe based on what I've heard that they will be doing those reviews and

4:40:53those studies anyways thank you. Okay Councillor Klassen did you have a comment? Yeah thank you

4:41:01Chair O'Rourke just a quick one I really hear what Councillor Katelyn is is doing I really appreciate

4:41:08that we should be prioritizing accessible washrooms as we're looking at places for

4:41:16people to use at them downtown. I think that clause number six of of the overall 10.1.4 actually

4:41:26encompasses this I think we've been told numerous times by staff that we will be considering all of

4:41:33these options and it is also written in another motion so I certainly support the spirit of the

4:41:42motion but I don't think it's necessary so I won't be supporting. Councillor Claes I'm sorry

4:41:50Councillor Katelyn. Thank you very much through you Chair so I understand that people think that

4:41:59everybody considers accessibility the same thing and that's just not true I personally have been

4:42:06injured recently in a bathroom in the city facility because of my environmental sensitivities

4:42:13so I don't necessarily trust that the intent will match the understanding unless it's gone through a

4:42:24more rigorous accessibility process and we missed the vote on the AAC being consulted in our latest

4:42:34bylaw I really want to make sure that that doesn't happen again and even a walking past something

4:42:40that's venting out these chemicals can harm someone like me so if we place this in the square

4:42:49and it's not accessible it's not just accessible to use it's making the square inaccessible to walk

4:42:53around so there are bigger implications here than people realize because of the lack of personal

4:42:59experience and I know that everybody wants accessibility and nobody is against it but the

4:43:06process and the details really matter here and I really hope that you vote for this.

4:43:15Councillor Downer. I just a question I just so hearing some of this I just want to confirm that

4:43:23that when the washrooms come they'll be going through the accessibility advisory committee

4:43:30which through you Madam Chair the overall project like detailed design and including the washrooms

4:43:36would be okay brought forward to the accessibility advisory committee.

4:43:39Yes so they'll be yes that's what I thought I just wanted to get back to that so they'll be

4:43:44considering those things at that committee okay that's correct yeah okay I'm going to call the vote

4:43:53any opposed to Councillor Caton's amendment? Gowler, Claeson, Mayor Guthrie, Councillor Bustill,

4:44:01Councillor Downer, Councillor Billings, Councillor Gibson, Councillor Chew and myself are opposed and

4:44:06so the amendment fails so we're back to Councillor Klassen's main motion and I'd like to call the

4:44:13vote on that motion. Is anyone opposed to Councillor Klassen's motion? I see no one opposed that

4:44:22motion passes unanimously okay we have one more motion one more motion Councillor Klassen are you

4:44:33able to table that motion for me please? So I'm in yes absolutely I'm in play musical chairs

4:44:42Councillor Klassen will move it Councillor Goller will second it.

4:44:48Yes and I can read it out sure yeah clerks are going to put it up great okay I'll just I'll start

4:44:55then that staff explore the incorporation of a drinking water drinking water fountain slash

4:45:01refill station as part of any future self public sorry self cleaning public washroom provided in

4:45:08downtown or as part of any constructed modified or upgraded permanent washroom facilities in city

4:45:13owned park and that in the interim it explores temporary solutions for the provision of drinking

4:45:18water fountains subject to consultation with Wellington Dufferin Guelph public health and subject

4:45:23to budget adoption through the appropriate future budget confirmation. So thank you Councillor Klassen

4:45:30we know that with climate change the summers are getting hotter we know that people need to cool down

4:45:37we know that people who are traveling on their bikes are going to want to fill their water bottles

4:45:41and that a water refill station is not always available I was in Montreal a couple of weeks ago

4:45:48they have temporary ones that sort of plug into the underground infrastructure that our staff know

4:45:54a lot more about than I do I saw the same thing in Burlington but we don't have a lot of drinking

4:45:59water fountains downtown or in our city parks and so all this does is it looks to those basic needs

4:46:06and it tries to accelerate the provision of water fountains both in the short term and then more

4:46:11permanent solutions in the longer term. Mayor Guthrie. Yeah thanks this is great and thank you for

4:46:17bringing it forward Chair O'Rourke and to my fellow Councillors for tabling it just a question

4:46:23through you I've seen we've all seen them we've all seen them for sure I just got maybe I'm just

4:46:29excited to vote this but there's ones that actually have a pet bowl at the bottom as well

4:46:35see there's like the human side up top and then there's actually a pet bowl at the bottom

4:46:40is that something that staff could look into as well could that be incorporated into this

4:46:46because it's like a whole it's like a whole system right through you Madam Chair yes all right there

4:46:51you go we won't talk long doing the amendment for that okay Councillor Gibson yeah thank you just

4:46:58really just an operational question I like the idea I think it's a great idea

4:47:05operationally though are there self-cleaning water fountains my preference would be for a

4:47:11water bottle refilling station rather than a drinking fountain I find them pretty unhygienic

4:47:18but I'm not in this world so can someone help me understand is there ability to keep them hygienic

4:47:24or are we really talking about a water refilling station here like a water bottle refilling station

4:47:33through you Madam Chair to Councillor Gibson certainly some of the the self-cleaning washrooms

4:47:38that we're talking about have these types of things sort of on the outside and operationally as staff

4:47:44check the washrooms they check the the water refill station they are a lot of the times a

4:47:49water refill station or the combination of the water bottle refill station with a fountain

4:47:53should you so choose to to use that option so they certainly are opportunities for those types of

4:48:00things yes okay plain as mud but that's okay I'm not a fan of the water fountain but the the

4:48:09water bottle refilling I'm all for so thank you noted thank you Councillor Gibson Councillor Carran

4:48:17again not our motion but one of the best public drinking fountain found kind of

4:48:22cultural assets that is the Benson bubblers in Port Sanragon and they were provided by a local

4:48:31and just you know I go out and look into costiness there may be an opportunity for

4:48:38downtown businesses to sponsor a surriff fountain I throw that out there as we're exploring it

4:48:44moving forward it forward it may not have to be something that the expense

4:48:51great Councillor Boestel thank you and through

4:48:56Chair O'Rourke I just have a question for staff about process I understand that when

4:49:02parks and playgrounds are revitalized that water water filling stations is part of that process

4:49:09and so my question is is is this motion about the downtown temporary additional water

4:49:17or is it about creating structures downtown in the in the long term and I guess selfishly not

4:49:24being downtown in the west end there is an and being Italian you know I'm thinking of the statues

4:49:32the water fountains and the dearth of art outside and places of interest outside is is there an

4:49:39opportunity outside of the downtown to have something creative incorporated it's not a motion

4:49:47but it's it's you know as we're creating structures can we have something a little bit more interesting

4:49:52than the wall of the washroom somewhere on a trail and so on but I'm a little bit confused as

4:49:59when you talk about these temporary water fills is it linked to the construction or is it temporary

4:50:05forever so it would be both Councillor Boestel so while we wait for some permanent water fountains

4:50:18right or or water bottle refilling stations and the motion is open to both what I saw in Montreal

4:50:26along you know the the festival quarter is they could add them and I just saw some added to ribfest

4:50:32at the boardwalk in Burlington and there are ways to connect these temporary portable stations

4:50:38for peak times right and so it is just to explore that so that we're not saying we're going to wait

4:50:44till 2027 to have a water fountain downtown when we know that it's part of the basic needs so

4:50:51Councillor sorry DCO clock Bush and I've talked about this lots of times same as the washrooms

4:50:56so it's to look at what could be a quick fix that you know wouldn't be problematic wouldn't

4:51:03require permanent infrastructure that could come back at a later date it's also look at what's going

4:51:08to be permanent and I'll you know with you I want to see some water fountains or water bottle

4:51:16refill stations in parks in the city because frankly we don't have them in the southern parks

4:51:23just a point of order madam chair just because and I'm meeting this with all due respect but the

4:51:27motion is about the downtown so I mean we can talk about park stuff like all night long but this is

4:51:33about this is about your idea about something for the downtown so I just want want to make sure through

4:51:40you that we are concentrating on that you raise a point of order but the motion says that staff

4:51:44explore in corporation incorporation of a drinking water fountain or water refill station as part of

4:51:49any future self-cleaning public washroom provided in downtown or as part of any constructed modified

4:51:56or upgraded permanent washroom facilities in city-owned parks it's both yeah it's both

4:52:03okay so we know we know we're gonna need more access to water going forward we got seniors walking

4:52:10lots of people out biking we want this I just want to make sure we've got water fountains

4:52:15or water bottle refill stations I'll just publicly say my apologies if you don't mind to you both you

4:52:21into Councillor Poussatil I'm sorry it wasn't in front of me and I I thought we were only talking

4:52:24about the downtown so my apologies to both of you okay okay can I call the vote I don't see any more

4:52:31questions no comments I'm going to call the vote is anyone opposed no that's unanimous okay and I

4:52:38believe that closes up any additional no Councillor Caton okay going back to you thank you I have one

4:52:46more new motion and I sent it out to everybody earlier today yeah clerks are just going to pull

4:52:57that up if you want to read that for us yes the staff be directed to discuss an innovation

4:53:02opportunity with the University of Guelph to design a fluid alternative to the current

4:53:06perfumed options for portable toilets to increase the accessibility of these options

4:53:11and report back to council in an information report so this is important because I know that any

4:53:16washroom is better than no washroom but again every washroom currently that exists that is a

4:53:21portable toilet has perfume as one of its ingredients for what they consider obvious reasons but

4:53:28doesn't necessarily have to be so so those are inaccessible to again five percent of the population

4:53:35so I would really like it if we could talk to the University of Guelph and potentially work

4:53:41at a plan it would just be great if they were aware of the opportunity because a maiden wealth

4:53:46option for something that was truly accessible would be fantastic Councillor Caton do you have a

4:53:52seconder yes I'm going to second that okay all right and any questions

4:54:01council boost still yes thank you and through you madam chair just a question about when you

4:54:08are procuring these facilities can you be specific in the terms of reference of

4:54:16of the specifications including things like the liquids so through a chair of work I'll jump in

4:54:23here we do con as I mentioned earlier we do contract these out through a third-party provider

4:54:27and I don't want to make that commitment that we would be able to provide provide a third-party

4:54:30provider I honestly don't know a lot about what they use in their porta-potties I'm imagining that

4:54:37there are specific reasons as to why they're using the chemicals that they are but I don't want to

4:54:42presume to speak out of turn because I we haven't done that research with them but my concern would

4:54:47be that even if the University of Guelph can come up with another option we may not be able to impose

4:54:53that on our supplier which would potentially leave us in the position that we would then need to be

4:54:59getting into the business of providing our own porta-potties which again then we're into having to

4:55:06service them and clean them out which is not anything that we as the city have ever done

4:55:10before so I appreciate that maybe there's an opportunity to investigate this but I would be

4:55:15very concerned about our ability to impose this upon a third-party supplier.

4:55:26Councillor Gibson. Yeah again just to reiterate some of my comments from earlier do we are there

4:55:32are staff aware of a best practice in other municipalities that have perhaps gone through

4:55:36accessibility standards and and and have solutions already or are we again having to learn this

4:55:43uniquely in Guelph or is there already a solution out there if there isn't then I'll support the

4:55:48motion but if there are staff aware of some best management practices that are already existing

4:55:53then perhaps we can be more efficient. Through the chair to Councillor Gibson we are at this point

4:56:00I am not we are not aware of any other municipalities who have an alternative for porta-potties

4:56:05we could go away and look into that but to my knowledge I don't know of any other municipalities

4:56:09who are doing any other anything else other than the type of porta-potties with the the

4:56:16chemicals that they are using in them that is from what I know to be standard.

4:56:23Okay maybe a question would staff be amenable to an amendment to the to the motion to just take

4:56:28this question away and and perhaps come back to come back with uh with what they've learned like do

4:56:34a bit of a scan. Through the chair to Councillor Gibson if I can just jump in and say we obviously

4:56:42will take council direction on this this is just a new piece of work that we have not scoped or

4:56:48talked about what the staffing implication would be nor have we talked to the University of Guelph

4:56:52so we will obviously take whatever direction you give us this evening but we we are in a bit of a

4:56:57position that it's I think you're hearing me struggle to answer because we don't know what we

4:57:02don't know on this and so and we have not sort of wrapped our heads around what the what the staff

4:57:09capacity would be to take this on. Councillor Klassen. Yes thank you and through you chair or work

4:57:22so just to build on what Councillor Gibson was alluding to I'm not sure if I'm comfortable with

4:57:26the word directed to discuss I guess if it's just a discussion then then perhaps it doesn't

4:57:33um it doesn't implicate us in a project. My question is how feasible is a project like

4:57:42like this because it it seems to be product development which I'm not entirely sure we

4:57:49we would I mean do typically. Through you Madam Chair again I I am struggling similar to DCAO

4:57:59CLEC Bush like I don't really know what would be involved in a project like this right now to be able

4:58:03to answer that so I think we could explore it a little bit and I look over to Ms. Sales for

4:58:11some help there. Sure so through the chair to Councillor Klassen there are several fronts

4:58:18on which we could explore this with the University I'm certain our partnership with the Guelph Lab

4:58:22is maybe one but product development isn't a space that we we've played more typically in the policy

4:58:28space just given the nature of of our partnership. The University obviously has an innovation space

4:58:37and we've got a great partnership with with them and their research team and we could put this

4:58:41question out to them but whether or not this is a specialty that someone is undertaking

4:58:48through their research program as well I think would be a consideration and it's difficult for me to

4:58:52speak to their research priorities and how those are funded sitting here today so I think we we

4:58:57you know and have a conversation to explore that more fully but to make a commitment beyond that

4:59:03that gets us into a project regardless of the scope I think it's a little early. Okay

4:59:14and then maybe just one more question with regard to the information report back to Council

4:59:19is would this be an appropriate report to go back to the AAC rather than Council?

4:59:30Sorry Councillor Klassen. Maybe I'll just withdraw that one. Okay okay um

4:59:40can I ask clerks to put the motion back up on the screen please? So I have a question for staff

5:00:10the first piece of sales I hear you say we we know who does this at the University we could

5:00:16reach out and ask if anybody is working on this so I'm comfortable with that piece. With respect

5:00:23to doing an information report I'm not sure what the value would be to Council especially if it's

5:00:30just somebody is working on it there's maybe no product development maybe it's not marketed maybe

5:00:35right we don't know what if it's somebody's PhD thesis then it might not ever come to market so

5:00:42I'm struggling with the I'm struggling with the information report

5:00:50and and how quickly it could be applied so I'm just wanting a few comment on that. Sure to you

5:00:57Chair O'Rourke I think you know we report back to Council in several ways and this could be as

5:01:03simple as reporting back via an email if that's appropriate and amenable to Council. Certainly

5:01:09happy to have an initial conversation with the University to understand if this is part of

5:01:13their research work or could be in the future and report back if that's helpful.

5:01:19So Councillor Caiten would that be sufficient I'm just not sure what would go into an information

5:01:26report. Just the outcome of the discussion right I'm not I'm not asking for a product

5:01:31to be made I'm asking for a conversation to be had so it's a seed of a potential plan but there's

5:01:39no plan and the outcome of the conversation would just detail what happened and if there is any

5:01:47potential going forward. Right so could that be an email back rather than information report and

5:01:52the reason I ask is the information report has to go through a couple rounds of approvals and

5:01:57and there is some staff time around that vetted through different departments could be environmental

5:02:02could be intergovernmental so I'm just again thinking about some staff capacity

5:02:07would you would you agree to strike the last portion of your motion or do you want to just

5:02:13vote on that okay all right so clerks I'm going to go rogue can we just strike out the information

5:02:21report portion of the motion I know. Madam Chair as a point of order I'd be happy to just follow

5:02:30process I'd be happy to move an amendment to strike the final I know I know it's a little bit more

5:02:36work but I'm happy to happy to follow the right process I'll move to strike that last portion

5:02:41and thank you Mayor Dastry. Do I have Councillor all to seconding okay I'm just going to call the

5:02:49vote on that all right anybody opposed to striking out the piece about the information report

5:02:55no that passes call the vote on the motion as amended Councillor Gibson do you have a question

5:03:01just a quick comment I think just personally speaking I think the motion would be better if

5:03:05it was a scan like this is a directed conversation to the University of Guelph I'll support

5:03:09for the time being but I think the motion would be better served if it was a scan like a sector

5:03:13scan or an industry scan with our municipal partners to see what they've come up with

5:03:18but I think staff's going to do that work anyway and they'll consult through the AAC for that so

5:03:22if we're asking staff to have a conversation with the University of Guelph it's a narrow

5:03:26conference a narrow motion but I think it I'm happy to support it okay any other comments

5:03:32no I'm calling the vote anyone opposed Mayor Guthrie is opposed okay but that motion passes

5:03:42all right any other motions with respect to improving access to public washrooms in Guelph

5:03:4710.1.4 seeing none I'm going to move to 10.1.5 downtown Guelph Heritage Conservation District