Council Planning

1:35just checking my audio.

1:39Hi Councillor Busuttil this is Dillon in the clerk's office.

1:41We can hear you and see you but your audio was quite quiet.

1:44I'm not sure if you have maybe have a headset you could use might improve things.

1:46Yeah you know what wrong headset too many heads on my desk is this better?

1:51We can hear you loud and clear thank you.

1:53Thank you very much.

10:36All right good afternoon everyone like to call the meeting to order this is our planning meeting.

10:40It's February 13th 2024 and right off the top we are looking to go into a closed session as

10:49described on the open agenda but before I do that is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest

10:54or any general nature thereof of the item we're looking to discuss enclosed seeing and hearing

11:01none so it is titled status update on downtown land disposition the Baker Street Development

11:08and this is under section 239 to see an F a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition

11:14of land by the municipality or local board and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege

11:20including communications necessary for that purpose would someone be willing to move

11:25motion to move enclosed uh councillor Alton councillor Klosson will oh and happy birthday happy

11:34celebrations to you councillor all and thank you and is there anyone against that

11:41seeing none more balloons in the air it was a unanimous decision we will see each other

11:47in closed session and I'll do a summary when we come out thank you very much all right good

2:02:07after good evening everyone almost 5 30 coming out of closed session we went into closed session

2:02:15just a little bit earlier on one issue status update on the downtown land disposition Baker

2:02:21Street Development so we received a lot of information from staff and after discussion

2:02:29and receiving that information we actually did get direction to staff on that item and so with

2:02:38that that's the summary and from here until let's see here is it six o'clock or six thirty I can't

2:02:48remember six o'clock we are taking a break so I will see everyone back here for the open session

2:02:54of planning starting at six o'clock thank you very much okay good evening everyone I'd like to call

2:40:00the the meeting to order it is February the 13th it's six o'clock and uh it's for we're here for

2:40:07our planning meeting kick things off stand if you if you're able please as we recognize our

2:40:13national anthem all right thank you so much and just as we continue a moment of silent reflection

2:42:01great thank you and for our indigenous territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to

2:42:07reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph a city built over rich indigenous histories

2:42:12we are guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land people who

2:42:17live here today and the generations to come for actions today can move us towards reconciliation

2:42:22we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude this place we call

2:42:28Guelph has served as traditional lands in a place of refuge for many people over time but more

2:42:32specifically the Anoanarok and the Honolunashoni this land is held as the treaty lands and territory

2:42:39with the mississaugas of the credit first nation and Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldum

2:42:45and Tract and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations

2:42:49of the Grand River many first nations Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island

2:42:57called Guelph home today any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature thereof

2:43:05not hearing not seeing anybody so i'll continue we got the consent agenda in front of us with the

2:43:13decision report on 14 stevens and street north with the official plan and zoning bylaw amendment

2:43:20and also the hearings under section oh no that's it just the one sorry so is there

2:43:28anyone that needs to pull that or could i call the vote on the consent

2:43:34councillor gullard are you willing to move consent yes your worship i did have one question about

2:43:39that 14 stevens did anyone else have questions on this or just councillor gullard and it's quick

2:43:46okay why don't we address that first would you be at least willing to move the motion

2:43:51okay moved seconded by councillor quassan and quick question on that before i call the vote then

2:43:57go ahead thank you through your worship through your worship to staff i've had a some questions

2:44:02from constituents about traffic management with the addition of the 10 units in that what is

2:44:09one house at the moment so if i could just hear at what point does that get considered

2:44:16the the additional flow of traffic that will result on to stevenson through the mayor to the

2:44:35councillor so at 10 units our standard approach would not be to require a traffic impact study for

2:44:4110 units we would have to have a higher volume than that 10 units divided by the am peak period

2:44:46and pmp period is is you know probably three tops at the peak period in the morning so we would not

2:44:52require a traffic study for that okay so to be clear through your your worship we expected that

2:45:00traffic impact would be negligible because of the number of units that is right for the road and

2:45:07the ability to accommodate those number of vehicles perfect thank you very much thank you worship of

2:45:12course no problem okay well thank you with that then i will call the vote on that item

2:45:18i'll call the vote now is anyone against that one hearing and seeing none that's unanimous so thank

2:45:26so if anybody was here for 14 stevenson street north you're done you're good to go

2:45:33that might have been you okay bye bye we are moving into the public session now under the

2:45:39planning act and the first one is the public meeting and decision for official plan amendment

2:45:45to implement the york elizabeth land use study we're going to have a presentation from one of

2:45:51our staff members and in our package there's some correspondence from one individual uh

2:45:56betris is here i think this is your first uh presentation so thank you for being here we

2:46:03look forward to hearing from you i'll turn the mic over to you and the presentation over to you go

2:46:07right ahead good evening mayor and members of council this is the statutory public meeting

2:46:19and decision meeting for a proposed official plan amendment to implement the york elizabeth

2:46:24land use study designations approved by council through opa 80 council brought into effect

2:46:31the recommended changes along york road this opa will capture the land use mapping changes

2:46:36close to victoria road south and elizabeth street the york elizabeth land use study

2:46:46an urban design concept was initiated in january of 2020 on may 10th of 2021 council approved the

2:46:53york elizabeth land use study which included recommendations to redesignate the lands as

2:46:58outlined in the study this rest re designation was to occur as part of the city's municipal

2:47:05conference of review an official plan review process also known as opa 80 council adopted opa

2:47:1280 on july 11th of 2022 and opa 80 was approved by the province on april 11th of 2023 while lands

2:47:22along york road were redesignated as part of opa 80 lands through the north close to victoria

2:47:29road and elizabeth street were not included as part of the staff's work to implement opa 80 this city

2:47:35initiated official plan amendment is being brought forward to ensure that council's approval of the

2:47:41york elizabeth land use study is reflected in the official plan land use schedule and that these

2:47:46lands can be developed efficiently as some of council may remember the york elizabeth land

2:47:57use study brought forward recommendations that included redesignating lands in the study area

2:48:02to accommodate residential intensification while protecting existing employment areas the york

2:48:07elizabeth land use study area was divided into four sub areas west of victoria road along victoria

2:48:14road east of victoria road and parts of york road frontage east of victoria road note that land use

2:48:21changes along york road have already been included as part of opa 80 the left map in front of you is

2:48:31the now existing land use designations that are in place with opa 80 the right map is the re

2:48:36designation of approved land uses from york elizabeth land use study to schedule to land use plan of

2:48:43the city's official plan mapping changes that we are capturing now include redesignating lands to

2:48:49mixed office commercial along elizabeth street at the northwest corner of empire street and gary

2:48:55baldy street along the southerly side of york road and at the block bounded by johnson street

2:49:00alice street and stevensson street these lands are proposed to be redesignated to recognize

2:49:07long-standing non-residential uses while also allowing for residential intensification council

2:49:13also approved recommendations to amend the northwest corner of york road and victoria road south

2:49:20and 48 victoria road south to mixed business as residential uses would not be compatible in these

2:49:26areas as noted changes along york road corridor including the northwest corner of york and victoria

2:49:34were already captured through opa 80 these are our recommendations for item 6.1 both myself

2:49:44lucas and melissa are here to answer any of your questions thank you let's see oh i got a hand up

2:49:59already from councillor uh gibson and maybe before we uh we go to that uh councillor gibson would you

2:50:08be willing to move the recommendation yes it's seconded by councillor oh yes we do have to have

2:50:16call ins for this i'm sorry it's first time my apologies so i'll get back to you uh you too for

2:50:22for tabling it we have no signed up delegations but let me ask the room and go online as well to

2:50:28see if there is any call ins first um is there anyone here in the room that wanted to talk about

2:50:33this specific item and is there anyone online i'm happy to put up a phone number here and i'll read

2:50:40that out as well 519-837-5603 again it's uh 519-837-5603 and we will just take about you know four or

2:50:54five minute little break here just to see if anyone wants to call in okay just give us a moment thank

2:54:18you mr mayor we didn't receive any call ins okay well thank you uh considering the public

2:54:26session there then over back to us as a council moved by councillor gibson seconded by councillor

2:54:34gullard and it looks like councillor gibson you said you had a question as well go right ahead

2:54:39questions only yeah thank you through you mr mayor i'm sorry i'm having a little bit of a connection

2:54:43issue so if i start cutting it at your end just let me know uh through you mr mayor to staff i was

2:54:50doing the read today and i was going back and forth between the properties looking at

2:54:55the zoning proposed zoning and the properties and is it safe to say that you made the comment early

2:55:01in your preamble that you were largely reflecting the land use that is existing now on those properties

2:55:07these these amendments so largely encapsulating just what's already existing on those properties

2:55:18through the mayor to councillor gibson through the york elizabeth land use study we did look at what

2:55:24what was existing on the ground in terms of some of the properties so recognizing their existing

2:55:29land uses but also looking at future potential so in some areas the designation was updated to ensure

2:55:36that there was potential for change to occur on those properties but mostly recognizing existing uses

2:55:42okay thank you last question through mr mayor and just cognizant of the um

2:55:47the correspondence that we received if a proposed change that's being amended through this opa update

2:55:55um is not exactly what's happening on the land today those existing um tenants to those properties

2:56:03they're they're not considered um non-legal at this point it's just that the the amendments to the

2:56:09the the amendments to the plan are just allowing that change to happen over time is that correct

2:56:17through the mayor to councillor gibson as long as the uses comply with the existing zoning bylaw

2:56:23then they would still be allowed to continue okay that that's the clear day I was looking for

2:56:29thanks very much is there anyone else I had a question on this no looks oh sorry councillor work

2:56:37go ahead thanks mr guthrie through you to staff I'm just wondering since opa 80 is uh

2:56:44still under appeal when would you expect these changes to work their way through and and be enacted

2:56:52through the mayor to the to councillor warwick opa 80 is now in effect there are no appeals permitted

2:56:57to opa 80 um so these changes would come into effect following an appeal period for this specific

2:57:04official plan amendment okay great thanks seeing nothing further I think I'll call the vote

2:57:12looks like I'll do that is there anyone against this item no all right I consider that matter

2:57:19closed and that's unanimous as well thank you so we got some items for discussion here and the first

2:57:24one up is 1563 to 1576 gordon street 42 and 48 loes road west and 164 to 182 don avenue

2:57:35it's the proposed zoning bylaw amendment and this is a decision report and we have um

2:57:43three delegations pat looks like everyone might be in person here so patrick quirk

2:57:49jones furgusson and emily elliott patrick you are first feel free to come on down

2:57:59and then jones wherever you are you're in the you're in the wings okay thank you thank you for being

2:58:04here and emily is emily in the room too okay you're here gonna be up next so it's no more than five

2:58:12minutes and you'll hear a chime at the four minute and 30 second mark which is your warning

2:58:19to that you only have 30 seconds left okay and then stick around just in case there is any questions

2:58:24from myself or colleagues before you head off okay so whenever you're ready you go right ahead

2:58:30good evening mr. mayor members of council i'm pat quirk and i've lived at 159 don avenue for

2:58:36almost 20 years i moved in around the same time that the places to grow act came to be at that time

2:58:42i didn't know anything about it it was also at that time that the bulldozing began just around the

2:58:48corner on the west side of gordon five detached homes were taken down and replaced by approximately

2:58:54100 townhouses i think i emailed counselors of the day but don't remember any real concern

2:59:01shortly after that two beautiful 1950s era ranch bungalows on the east side of gordon

2:59:07were bulldozed and replaced by approximately 100 units this is when i began to learn about

2:59:13intensification corridors built boundaries density and infill it was also at this time i heard the

2:59:19phrase respecting mature stable neighborhoods i don't hear much of that anymore so my tiny little

2:59:26neighborhood loes and dawn came under attack this has not been an infill addition to a neighborhood

2:59:32it has been the removal of a mature stable neighborhood every single house on the north side

2:59:38of loes road from dawn to gordon has been bulldozed every house on the south side of loes from dawn

2:59:44to gordon has been or will be bulldozed under this application with the exception of two homes

2:59:50which i understand have developed development plans in the works on the east side of dawn

2:59:56from the old road of alms to loes road one home will remain standing on the northeast corner of

3:00:02dawn and loes one house has become three what was once a mature stable neighborhood is no longer

3:00:0910 to 20 homes in this small neighborhood have become hundreds the reason i'm before you is not

3:00:17to object to this intensification development i'm here to let you know our little neighborhood

3:00:22has done more than its fair share of intensification i am asking you to consider two amendments that

3:00:28will have no material effect on densification but will show a little respect to what's left of our

3:00:34neighborhood i'm asking you to consider moving the emergency road entrance from dawn avenue to

3:00:40dawn avenue to gordon street just like the two emergency access roads across the road in gordon

3:00:45street placing this access on dawn avenue negatively impacts our streetscape but more importantly

3:00:52it will become a walkway for residents of the new development to their new dawn avenue parking lot

3:00:58everyone knows these types of developments are underserviced in terms of parking providing easy

3:01:03access to parking on dawn avenue is less than fair don avenue do not have to support this

3:01:08application by providing parking there was already a proposed pedestrian access to gordon

3:01:14street from this development i am quite confident there are enough smart people involved with this

3:01:18that can figure out how to get squeezed in emergency access to gordon street

3:01:25the second thing i'm asking you to consider is reducing the number of detached homes on

3:01:28dawn avenue from eight to six the current proposal wants the eight lots to have frontages of approximately

3:01:3532 feet for perspective the three homes on dawn avenue that will be bulldozed each have frontages

3:01:41of 100 feet i'm not asking you for that the average of all frontages on the mature portion of dawn

3:01:48from the road allowance north to the dead end is approximately 79 feet i'm not asking for that

3:01:54the average of all frontages on the entire street from clearfields to the dead end is

3:01:59approximately 70 feet 67 feet i'm not asking for that the builder of three new homes on the corner

3:02:06of dawn and loaves was told by the city in 2020 that they would only support three new homes not four

3:02:12these three lot frontages have approximately 65 feet i'm not asking for that i am asking for six new

3:02:1950-foot lots this would double the number of homes that are there right now and would make an attempt

3:02:24a small attempt to respect what's left of the neighborhood the first request to move the emergency

3:02:30access has no impact on density the second request will reduce the intensification of the neighborhood

3:02:36by two units and again please remember that this small neighborhood has already added hundreds

3:02:42we have done our part so i'm not here to complain or object to the development but i would like to

3:02:48point out most of us consider infill to be developing an old school site a hotel a factory a

3:02:56commercial establishment a church or similar thing that is tucked up to an existing neighborhood

3:03:01if you live on a street that has larger lots you may experience one house becoming two that's the

3:03:06world we live in now this is not the case with the neighborhood of dawn and loaves my neighborhood

3:03:12has been erased and hundreds of units have been added i'm asking you to consider two small changes

3:03:18thank you for your consideration thank you very much and just let me see if there is a question

3:03:24as a follow-up to the delegate okay oh yeah uh councillor busetil please

3:03:31yes thank you to the delegation just a question of um uh did you raise these suggestions uh

3:03:38to in the planning process in the public process at all and what was the response back from the

3:03:43city and or the developer so i did not contact the developer i did contact every member of council

3:03:51and michael wittner back in june of 22 i think when it first came here and then i with mr wittner

3:04:00a couple months ago and he was very polite and respectful helpful but the message i got was

3:04:06it was a shrug and this is the way it is okay okay councillor busetil yes thank you okay perfect

3:04:20seeing nothing further thank you very much your delegation appreciate it and uh next up is uh

3:04:27june jone furkison i think many many of us here recognize you we appreciate you coming here you've

3:04:41always been uh here for you know a lot of these uh if i recall developments in the area so

3:04:48thank you for coming again and you two have up to five minutes okay okay um we're we live on don

3:04:53avenue we've been here numerous times the council for all of the applications we understand the

3:04:59intensification but don't fix the housing issue by creating parking issues your what i'm seeing is

3:05:09you're adding 150 homes onto a street that cannot afford to have extra cars parking on it

3:05:18first of all if you do lo's road has a flooding issue it's it's any heavy rain

3:05:26snow melting event you have the city operations department will come out and pump the road

3:05:32into gordon waste a taxpayer money it it should have been fixed and in this what we submitted to you

3:05:40we show that they took the drainage ditches out there were 12 of them that drained into very deep

3:05:47deeper trench ditches now there's only seven left so that water's got no place to go it can't

3:05:55climb a hill and the excess water still flows down don avenue to our area which we were told was

3:06:02not going to happen you can see the water when it rains come out of ferris circle down to don avenue

3:06:10it just trickles right down and when the lo's ponds uh get high enough they contribute to the

3:06:17water flowing down don avenue as well um the uh issue about the houses on um don avenue was

3:06:28actually brought up on the first meeting about uh this being uh not conducive to the street um

3:06:35just a reminder that was brought up previously um we'd also like um something done about the um

3:06:42since you're putting 150 units and 150 more cars onto a short street what traffic

3:06:52implementations are going to be there like speed bumps a traffic signal at gordon or at dawn and

3:06:58lo's the influx like this our road down to claire fields is like a shortcut people instead of driving

3:07:06down to claire fields will cut down lo's to dawn and they don't go slow nor do they stop at the stop

3:07:13sign most of the time like we actually i guess it would have been late last year when we realized

3:07:21this development was coming uh we put forth a traffic study for our half a dawn avenue which

3:07:27would be from the corner of lo's down to the dead end conservation we actually talked to our

3:07:33neighbors what can we do and we've changed our street to no parking overnight from lo's road

3:07:39down to the end conservation we had a long discussion what we could do so we've prevented

3:07:45overnight parking on our part of the street to help with the traffic issues um we're concerned about

3:07:53where the extra water from this new development is going to end up because it's 100 going to

3:08:01guaranteed make lo's road worse um which makes dawn avenue worse and there is no solution that we've

3:08:11seen put forth to correct the problem yet they did put a storm water management pond at the in the

3:08:19conservation which eventually does drain but it still ponds it still ponds and if they don't come in

3:08:29and clean the i don't know the inlet for that from all the debris that washes down dawn

3:08:35it still floods the street it does anyway because it wasn't put low on but we just would like you

3:08:43to consider our thoughts and the impact it will have on our neighborhood again we're not against it

3:08:49and we don't want to see parking be the outcome problem from building houses

3:08:58great thank you yeah thank you thank you very much is there anyone that has um further questions

3:09:05with the councillor boosted till is up again up to up to bat go for it thank you uh thank you very

3:09:10much for the delegation same question that i asked the previous delegation um did you meet with the

3:09:17developer did you meet with city staff around the three issues that you've raised the traffic

3:09:22parking and the water collection and what were the responses we were here at the last council we

3:09:28brief met we briefly met with a developer at the end of the council meeting last time and they told

3:09:33us about the storm water pond which sounded great but has not fixed the issue and we've spoken to

3:09:41michael wittmer and he's been very helpful for what he can help with apparently there's somebody

3:09:47new doing a study on it study doesn't fix the problem action does sorry just a clarification study on

3:09:59water problem along the water problem and with reference to the traffic in the parking

3:10:04absolutely we've been here for ferris circle um delegation and we're here for this one and for

3:10:14rain condos as well we were here as well sorry i'm missing it so for traffic and parking had

3:10:20there been conversations with city staff and or the developer and what what was the essence of

3:10:25the conversation i haven't spoken to them i would have thought a study would properly assess the

3:10:30increase in traffic and it meets the criteria from what i've heard that's more than 10 units

3:10:39we're just concerned that a that many cars in that little street is going to be crazy it's

3:10:46the street is not like it's a gordon street or clearfields it's it's a short street

3:10:53lois road through the mayor thank you very much thank you is there anybody else at this time

3:11:02no and thank you again for coming down and raising the concerns we do appreciate thank you

3:11:07and uh the last one we have is emily eliot and i think i saw your hand go up so come on down and

3:11:14you have uh five minutes as well okay good evening uh merrick athrian members of council my name is

3:11:33emily eliot and i'm uh with mhbc planning and we are the applicants with respect to this zoning

3:11:38bylaw amendment application and we're here tonight on behalf of reed's heritage homes to express

3:11:43support for staff's recommendation with me tonight is trevor frazier from stand tech the

3:11:48engineer on this application and jeff robinson from reed's heritage homes and i just like to start

3:11:54by thanking michael whitmer for his thorough staff report we've been working on the zoning

3:11:58bylaw amendment application for about two years and have appreciated all the effort and collaboration

3:12:03with city staff i'll try to keep my comments fairly brief as things are pretty well covered off in

3:12:07the planning report the zoning bylaw amendment application proposes the redevelopment of the

3:12:13lands bounded by gordon street uh loes road in don avenue there's a concept plan in the staff report

3:12:19as attachment nine the proposed development includes eight single detached dwellings fronting on don

3:12:25avenue and 150 stacked townhouse units the stacked townhouse units include two different unit types

3:12:31and there's conceptual renderings of these in the staff report as well there are 16 uh stacked

3:12:37townhouses units on gordon street and 10 stacked townhouse units along loes road both of which

3:12:43feature integrated rear garages um and front doors and front porches facing the streets

3:12:50this was done to provide a strong visually appealing street edge the stacked townhouse

3:12:55units internal to the site are more of a traditional style um oriented along a private roadway the site

3:13:02has also been designed to integrate with the surrounding neighborhood there's an aerial

3:13:06rendering of the proposed development included in the staff report as well that shows how the

3:13:11development uh is integrated with the surroundings the singles along don avenue uh provide an

3:13:18appropriate transition from the existing single detached dwellings on don as well as to the

3:13:24multiple residential development proposed and the rain condominiums the proposed lot sizes of these

3:13:29singles are similar to development to the south along don as well as to the uh herstone circle

3:13:37development to the north the front yard setbacks proposed are consistent with uh surrounding

3:13:42development and the buildings are proposed to be two stories in height which is a similar height to

3:13:46the surrounding one and two story houses the uh block of stacked townhouses along gordon was

3:13:53designed with a consistent setback to the rain uh development to the north in order to create a

3:13:58continuous street edge um and really contribute to the design of that gordon street intensification

3:14:03corridor there is surface parking internal to the site that's screened uh from view from the public

3:14:10streets um and there's ample opportunities for landscaping and amenity space in terms of parking

3:14:17the proposed development uh has surface and garage parking spaces so each of the single detached

3:14:23units will have a driveway and a garage parking space the 26 stacked townhouses with garages will

3:14:29also have a garage and a driveway parking space and then there are 141 surface parking spaces

3:14:34including 15 visitor spaces uh there's vehicular access to the development from a driveway connected

3:14:41to los road and an emergency access to don there are pedestrian connections to all surrounding streets

3:14:48and throughout the site there is a large central amenity area within the development

3:14:54as well as a smaller central amenity area and private amenity space for each of the dwelling

3:14:58units the site can be serviced through connections to existing infrastructure and through the review

3:15:03of the application engineering staff confirmed that the development can be supported by full

3:15:08municipal services and their sufficient capacity with respect to stormwater management all storm

3:15:15water for this development will be infiltrated on site such that there's no runoff to adjacent

3:15:20streets or properties we've worked with staff through the stormwater management strategy

3:15:26so that environmental and engineering planning are now satisfied that all storm water can be

3:15:32managed directly through infiltration and it eliminates any current drainage of water to

3:15:37those road and restricts any drainage to don avenue as well and like I said engineering and

3:15:42environmental planning staff have signed off on the stormwater management approach in terms of the

3:15:49process this application has been through a very extensive review process like I said the zoning

3:15:54bylaw amendment was initially submitted in april and the public meeting april of 22 and that public

3:15:59meeting was in july of 2022 through that process we've worked collaboratively with staff to address

3:16:06all technical comments and made modification to the plan including the reduction of four units to

3:16:13accommodate a larger amenity space and additional landscaping we're now initiating the site plan

3:16:18process so that reads can start sales in march and start servicing the site in the summer so thank

3:16:23you for your consideration this evening and we'd be happy to answer any questions and thank you to

3:16:30you as well uh councillor or roark please and then chew thanks very much margithry

3:16:38i just want to circle back to talk about the flooding because while you've given us an explanation

3:16:42about infiltration etc the residents in this area have every reason to be concerned about flooding

3:16:48when it rains a lot there's actual current on that road it is true the city has to send out

3:16:54trucks to pump into gordon and it's it is quite deep so councillor chew and i have sent

3:17:00you know videos and emails and all those things so um what can you say in a non-planning language

3:17:08okay to reassure people that this development is not going to contribute to the flooding on

3:17:16loaves and on through the mayor thank you for your question um the stormwater management strategy

3:17:24for this uh this development keeps all water on site essentially so all water for these lands will

3:17:32be infiltrated on site and not discharged to adjacent lands okay three you margithry um

3:17:39so it's my understanding that where there is runoff it's going to run off to the south to where

3:17:46there is a natural heritage is that correct and there's a stormwater pond there or there there

3:17:52tanks there through there that's correct there is a small area where there is some existing

3:18:00conditions where there's runoff offsite that will go to the city open space block where there is

3:18:06infiltration potential um but that is an existing condition and it won't be discharging to the

3:18:15adjacent streets okay and three you margithry um so you're also the the developer for the rain

3:18:25condos and ferris circle and the little plaza so when you're looking at the runoff for these sites

3:18:30are they being looked at in the cumulative because i think we've gone from you know like

3:18:3515 houses maybe to um twice 158 right so are we looking at at all of that runoff

3:18:43in the cumulative the delegates are quite right this has taken a lot of intensification

3:18:49yep and through the mayor uh the stormwater management strategy that was presented looked at the

3:18:57current conditions including the existing development at rain and ferris circle okay

3:19:03um through you margithry just another question about the possibility of going from eight to six

3:19:11lots um can the community can the community appeal that at committee of adjustment like

3:19:20do they have an opportunity to come and present their case when those lots will be severed

3:19:26through the mayor the creation of those lots will go through the committee of adjustment consent

3:19:31process the consent will be related to the uh division of land to create those lots as opposed

3:19:38to the zoning specifically uh the committee of adjustment is a public process and so notice will

3:19:43be given to everyone within the prescribed radius and they'll have an opportunity to speak at the

3:19:49committee of adjustment and you know if they have concerns they can also voice them there

3:19:53okay thank you and then my last question is around uh two sorry um is there any

3:20:01anything that the developer is doing to mitigate the reduction in the visitor parking and the

3:20:06potential for overflow parking on two adjacent streets through the mayor uh we had a transportation

3:20:13impact assessment done in support of this development and part of that included

3:20:17parking analysis uh the parking analysis supported the proposed reduction uh in this location there's

3:20:25great access to transit along gordon um and then in terms of tdm measures transportation

3:20:30demand management measures uh the uh traffic report recommended that parking be unbundled from the

3:20:39um from the unit so a purchaser would buy their parking space separate from the unit and that's

3:20:46a you know pretty common transportation demand management strategy to reduce parking uh demand

3:20:51on site okay thanks and then my last question through you mayor guthrie is is there an opportunity

3:20:56at site plan to review where that uh emergency access um comes out from whether that can come out

3:21:04from gordon as opposed to dawn through the mayor we've looked at the emergency access in quite a

3:21:10bit of detail um the emergency access is located on dawn so that it can accommodate uh servicing

3:21:17connections and um also assist with the grading and the internal road layout but it's something

3:21:22we can take a look at at site plan thank you councillor chou do you have any follow-up questions

3:21:29yeah i'll um through you mr mayor i'll keep it relatively brief um my colleague cancer

3:21:35rark has answered most of my questions uh this might be a question to our city engineer but

3:21:41i just was wondering from your end as an applicant uh how have you coordinated uh discussions on

3:21:52the stormwater catchment post development um for the units fronting dawn avenue i'm just curious

3:22:00because i'm aware as well through the studies that you guys are uh tied in with um our stormwater

3:22:07management master plan and some of the discussions on the lid that will be um put put in in the future

3:22:16at the end of dawn um and i'm just raising this because i'm just curious about the timing of

3:22:25your um clients development in light of our work on um dawn and loze road to address some

3:22:35of the ponding issues um that's legacy of the bungalows that have pre-disted um the development

3:22:44through the mayor i i think you're asking um how we've coordinated the stormwater management

3:22:50strategy for the units long dawn um so the stormwater management strategy for this development

3:22:56was a comprehensive stormwater management strategy so we would have considered that um at the time uh

3:23:01the stormwater management report was prepared and through the back and forth with city staff

3:23:06that occurred okay and just to the best of your knowledge not to put you on the spot but

3:23:14can you kind of elaborate maybe on you know the person where the high point is um for the units

3:23:22on dawn because there's going to be a portion of the frontage that's going to be uh sloped down

3:23:28towards dawn avenue um i understand there's those french french screens and but and some of them

3:23:35will infiltrate to that gallery that's being proposed uh but like i'm just curious like how

3:23:41much like roughly will uh kind of flow into dawn avenue uh through the mayor i don't know the high

3:23:50point on dawn avenue we do have trevor frazier the project engineer if you'd like he can answer

3:23:55that question regarding the high point on dawn avenue um but there is not intended to be any

3:24:01stormwater discharge onto dawn avenue okay yeah that's sufficient for me thank you okay

3:24:09seeing nothing further uh no councillor busetel go ahead yes thank you and through the mayor um

3:24:17thank you councillor aurorke i had some similar questions um again i'm going to bring it back

3:24:23to the stormwater um if you can explain a little bit more what i heard is that there's going to be in

3:24:29you know the design is an infiltration uh so that i would assume that would be absorbed into

3:24:35the groundwater and then you you said that if there is excess it would be redirected to where

3:24:41there's capacity in city stormwater could you just clarify that did i hear that correctly

3:24:48through the mayor uh the site is intended to be almost entirely infiltrated uh the infiltration

3:24:54is a combination of many different low impact development features like infiltration galleries

3:25:00a storm storage system and um something like a green uh or sorry a rain garden there is one small

3:25:07area um if i can just take a look at the engineering report where there is an existing condition um

3:25:15where there's uh runoff off the site and that is the only um water that will not be infiltrated on

3:25:24site is is that existing condition so the vast majority of water will be infiltrated on the site

3:25:32and it's just that that one small area which represents an existing condition and sorry just

3:25:40for clarification then that existing condition for runoff would not uh exacerbate the problems that

3:25:46the residents have raised is what you're saying through there that's correct it won't be to the

3:25:51road it will it's to the the city-owned open space to the south of the development not to

3:25:56any of the adjacent roadways thank you so i will be asking staff a little bit more on that city space

3:26:05the open space for clarification on that and the last question i have is about um communication

3:26:11and working with the neighborhood and the residents can you elaborate a bit on the engagement and the

3:26:18conversations that you've had with the residents throughout this process thank you through the

3:26:24mayor we had the public meeting back in july um and we have not been approached by any of the

3:26:30residents um otherwise we did hear uh the comments that were raised about pawning on lows and like

3:26:36i said we've worked really collaboratively with city staff to come to a storm water management

3:26:41solution that the city supports but we haven't heard directly from any of the residents at public

3:26:46meeting thank you mr mayor that's all okay that's it then thank you so much thank you okay it's back

3:26:55to us council and before i go to um some uh questions maybe of staff just for clarification

3:27:04is there uh can i just get someone to at least look to move the motions ahead of us for this

3:27:09development this this recommendation sorry counselor chiu and counselor katin thank you

3:27:15i'm going to start with counselor oror i believe just wanted to do some follow-up with staff

3:27:20and then i'll go alt to busitil uh thank you mayor guthrie through you to staff

3:27:28i remember clearly the statutory public meeting for this one and i remember

3:27:33counselor bell saying the intent people understand the intensification corridor the

3:27:38intensification corridor is meant for gordon street but now we're starting to intensify

3:27:45on dawn which is sort of the street behind right so i'm just wondering what is the i understand

3:27:52it aligns with the provincial policy statement all those things but what is the justification for

3:27:58really this intensification reaching back onto dawn and and should residents expect more of that

3:28:12through the mayor to the counselor so from you know the initial concepts which was stacked towns

3:28:18along dawn to uh proposed at this time eight still attached i think they have moved the

3:28:26plan to address some of those neighborhood concerns i will say that since even the application came

3:28:32in the planning act and our planning regime has changed so three units as of right are able to

3:28:39be on any lot through the comprehensive zoning bylaw we also change the lowest density zones to

3:28:44allow single semis triplex towns um so that end could end up being permitted and they could take

3:28:52a single detached and have three units as of right right now that's not risk proposed that's not the

3:28:57models shown um and it's certainly our hope that that the applicant comes uh follows through with

3:29:03that but given the planning act regime um and our comprehensive zoning bylaw with all those uses

3:29:09permitted they could amend the plans to allow for more okay thank you and uh through you merga

3:29:16through the other you know massive question for this area is the flooding on lows and so if i can

3:29:22just ask our engineering staff because they knew i was going to ask um what is the mitigation plan

3:29:30for lows a fully understanding that this developer is saying all the all the infiltration will be

3:29:36contained on the site or or flow to the south um what are the plans to to correct the issues that

3:29:44are currently occurring on lows so through the mayor to councillor roe good evening um so with

3:29:51respect to lows and gordon um through the city's multi-year budget process council has approved

3:29:56capital funding for the city to upgrade the infrastructure there to bring the the lows road

3:30:00design uh to a more current best practice or standard for stormwater management and so that

3:30:06work is underway now the design is nearly complete so the next steps for the city are permitting

3:30:11tendering and then the construction work itself that could we could see groundbreaking as early as

3:30:16this year or more likely into the early part of 2025 depending on the timing of those other steps

3:30:22okay thank you very much and uh through you mayor Guthrie how will that work align with the

3:30:26gordon street um uh improvements with the addition of the center turn lane is that does that all

3:30:32work together and we're going to see the beginning of that uh towards the end of this year so through

3:30:36the mayor to councillor roe yes you're correct uh sort of stage one if you will uh would be the

3:30:41work on lows with the work on gordon to follow thanks thank you uh alt and then shoo

3:30:52councillor ask my question and i heard the answer great thank you and councillor shoo then busatil

3:31:03thank you mayor Guthrie uh through you um okay i think i found the answer to this but i just

3:31:10want to clarify on the record uh to our city engineer um it looks like there's gonna be a

3:31:15drop structure uh on dawn avenue to the north of the site i was wondering uh is that essentially

3:31:22going to line up with the plans on the timeline uh for those improvements on lows and dawn that

3:31:28are highlighted through that uh through our storm water management master plan so through the mayor

3:31:38to councillor chou with respect to the the city municipal improvements on lows that design work

3:31:44is still being finalized now um but with respect to the development application in front of you

3:31:49the the water itself is is infiltrating within the site boundary with the safe except of the small

3:31:55portion at the south end of the property that was highlighted by the developers consultant which

3:32:00will drain to the city's right away um our green space property below that which already has existing

3:32:05infiltration infrastructure in place with capacity to take that existing runoff and so everything

3:32:11else is maintained in the site boundaries with the ability to drain through a series of catch basins

3:32:16and pipes into infiltration galleries which then restores the water to the groundwater

3:32:21okay and just the follow-up like my concern really is that dawn avenue well it has the

3:32:27capacity that lows doesn't to uh infiltrate the closest catch basin on dawn avenue is on clear

3:32:37is from clared fields drive west um and it reaches 100 meters into dawn avenue if you're going north

3:32:45i'm just concerned that if this development comes in and we don't have any contingent plans in place

3:32:53to do some work on dawn um as scheduled um as part of the neighborhood improvement study

3:33:01we may or we may be at risk for um some ponding issues in the future because um what's existing

3:33:09right now is support is there to support some of the existing um homes with the big lots um so

3:33:18i think it's just something to consider right because i think the residents here have been very

3:33:23understanding and accepting that development's going to take place but i think if there are

3:33:27ways in which we can line up some of our improvements um obviously it's all contingent on the budget

3:33:36right but it's something that we need to seriously take a look at um so i just leave my comments there

3:33:44so yeah thank you for your time thank you uh boost until then downer thank you um i have a storm

3:33:53water uh infiltration question as well so what i hear if you could just validate is that it is the

3:34:00south end of the development the rest will be infiltrated on the site itself and that this excess

3:34:07will go to the city's existing green space property that the city has so my question is

3:34:15number one my first question is is this parkland uh the city's quote green space and the second

3:34:21question is does this will this occur without any changes to existing catchment basins or other

3:34:31i guess infrastructure and the last one is how will this be monitored

3:34:40so through the mayor to council boost until i think i'll hopefully get all three of those

3:34:43questions in the right order so first the area in part is a an easement for trail and so that's the

3:34:50this portion of property to the south of the site the drainage infrastructure that's already there

3:34:54has capacity and is already taking some of the existing condition um so there's no upgrades to

3:34:59the infrastructure required which i think is what you're getting at there and then with respect to

3:35:03all of this um there are monitoring requirements for all city storm water management infrastructure

3:35:08through our permit that we have with the ministry of environment and so that's how we would take care

3:35:11of that through the mayor thank you thank you and uh let's go with downer thank you through you

3:35:20mr mayor uh one of the the residents talked about the emergency access and the possibility of moving

3:35:28it to gordon would do you think that's feasible at all and just the rationale for that was because

3:35:34people would cut through there but my guess is that you would probably have a walkway going to

3:35:41dawn avenue anyway because that just creates more access to the site for people wanting to go

3:35:47up for a walk on dawn instead of gordon so i just asking about that question through your

3:35:57america 3d councillor downer uh engineering staff and maybe they could speak to that out further but

3:36:02looked at the possibility of having the emergency access go to gordon street early in the review

3:36:06of this application and ruled out that feasibility just due to a conflict with traffic and the

3:36:11geometrics um there are there is going to be a walkway to both gordon street and and dawn avenue

3:36:18here uh and as emily elliott the applicant stated there there's also servicing connections

3:36:25primarily to the site coming from that emergency access to dawn i was going to ask that question

3:36:34so you took that from me that's okay all right i just have a closing comments it looks like

3:36:40if anyone needs to i'm just going to go with councillor O'Rourke please uh thanks mere guthrie

3:36:46i just want to thank the furgussians who've been here for every application

3:36:50on loz and dawn and mr quirk as well i said this at this at the statutory public meeting this is

3:36:58not a nimby scenario this is there's real flooding concerns you can see the work that they've done

3:37:04city staff have acknowledged and actually have created space and budgets and accelerated timelines

3:37:10to address that because there's a real acknowledgement of that problem um and it's true this is a short

3:37:15street that is seen roughly 20 homes converted into 316 units right and so they they are really

3:37:24probably the first of what the intensification corridor is going to be and and i think they

3:37:29have raised in a constructive way some really valid concerns so i want to thank you for that

3:37:34and because they love their neighborhood right so then and they have never said not this they have

3:37:38said could we maybe do like there's a few fewer and could we just really be careful about the parking

3:37:44which i appreciate so i just wanted to say um this isn't a case in nimby this is you know people

3:37:50who've seen a lot a lot of intensification just this development is 17 times the density that

3:37:55they currently have there um and i just want to thank them for raising it in a constructive

3:38:00way and to let them know the flooding will be fixed soon as soon as we can get to it

3:38:10all right and oh councillor chou has a comment as well uh it looks like boosted till as well

3:38:14after chou thank you thank you mayor guthrie and through you yeah thank you to the residents that

3:38:23have spoken up um i think we all appreciate your the constructive nature of your comments

3:38:29i think i just want to reiterate uh to staff and um like what councillor said we are trying

3:38:36our best to fix up loewe's avenue and also prevent um any future ponding events on don avenue

3:38:44so i trust that our staff will be prudent and watchful um and monitor any opportunities

3:38:50that may arise uh when preventing takes place for this development but i do want to challenge

3:38:58our staff and the developers as well through the site plan considerations to maybe take a second

3:39:05look at that uh emergency access off gordon street uh it's well over 200 meters from the next

3:39:13intersection on clear and well beyond that of loewe's road and it's your regarding proposing

3:39:20a sidewalk i think if there is opportunity to evaluate the easement for that to be a reality

3:39:29it could really be of service to the neighbors and show that we are working constructively to

3:39:35take in the comments at council even though it's supposed to be high nature and high high

3:39:42level of nature so i just leave my comments there thank you for everyone who's been working

3:39:46part at making these revisions thank you busatil then karan thank you and through you

3:39:55mr mayor um this is just an overarching kind of comment as we see more intensification overall

3:40:01in the city um thank you to the staff for attention to storm water and water and the impact and the

3:40:08limitations of our existing infrastructure and i want to include parks in that infrastructure

3:40:14it's a bit of a double-edged sword as we're intensifying housing units there is going to be an increase

3:40:20in the um need and demand uh for green space and while a water feature you know a storm water pond

3:40:28is categorized as parkland i really want to and i hope that staff are paying attention to

3:40:34green space and not a water pond retention pond as a water feature and that's my comment thank you

3:40:43thank you councillor karan mr mayor um i just want to cover uh the same topic that i cover at

3:40:51every planning application that is the community energy initiative um letter that came from the

3:40:57developer to council as part of the package i know that many of these uh uh aspects of the

3:41:05development are handled at site plan that i would like to in my closing statements prior to the vote

3:41:11highly encourage the developer to implement more of our community energy initiatives towards net

3:41:17zero and renewables with a recent oeb decision about uh gas fired energy and the costs of energy

3:41:29rising and the cost of renewables becoming on par now is the time during the construction

3:41:37to get those new technologies into this development affordability is something our community

3:41:44is talking about daily and the cost of utilities in perpetuity is part of the affordability equation

3:41:51and so i highly encourage our staff and the developer to um to do better on uh on the net zero goals

3:41:59thanks thank you hearing nothing further um i'll just say ditto to everything that's been asked

3:42:10one of the things about going last is that sometimes everything is asked and the comments

3:42:14as well have been captured the biggest issue for me was around the just the flooding in the area

3:42:20which i knew in advance staff have been really really addressing and the capital project that's

3:42:27coming up this year i was uh actually we asked about that i think myself councillor rork asked about

3:42:32that uh specifically during budget anyways and so there was um some real certainty there about

3:42:39that project coming forward to terry i just want to say thank you and your team and the planning team

3:42:44for making sure that that wasn't glossed over uh for for this issue because you know frankly getting

3:42:50the videos or the pictures sent at all hours um you know points to the problem that is there

3:42:59so actually this i actually feeling this problem is finally actually going to be addressed which is

3:43:04which is good and it combines with sort of the the development that that will be occurring

3:43:09there as well and you know i you know i think it was mr. kirk that said that this area has taken in

3:43:17a lot of that intensification that that's actually a really good point that that that area really has

3:43:24so you know thank you i guess i'll just say thank you to the ones that are here from from the

3:43:29from the neighborhood but for those that are listening as well you actually have taken a lot

3:43:33in that area uh now that i think about it and you know in a housing crisis and and such with

3:43:39intensification this this is going to happen and sometimes you'll see it happening in in other

3:43:44areas more spread out or more intensely happening in the area that you happen to be in and this is

3:43:51one of those areas so i just wanted to know that i recognize that and i also want to recognize that

3:43:57the kind of consistent and constant sort of construction can can can wane on people

3:44:02i get that too once it's done uh once it's you know landscaped once once the neighbors are coming

3:44:12out the door and you're waving to each other across the street like it it it starts to feel

3:44:17back to that sort of neighborhood that many have been there for a long time would start to feel again

3:44:22but with new neighbors which is really positive but it's just it just takes a long time to sort of

3:44:27get to that and i i i respect that so um yeah anyways just thank you for having me have a few

3:44:33comments there at the end too so with that i'll call the vote um is there anyone against

3:44:39seeing none that's unanimous then as well thank you again to the community who's been involved

3:44:44the whole time uh okay we are now at the intention to designate of 331 Claire

3:44:57sorry oh sorry i thought you were talking to me notice of objection i'm sorry i should say that

3:45:02that title a bit better notice of objection to intention to designate 331 Claire road east

3:45:11under section 29 part 4 of the Ontario Heritage Act we're going to have uh uh just a couple

3:45:19presentations from uh from people we have a delegation one and a couple pieces of correspondence

3:45:29jack well on is here yes come on up jack and uh a heritage planner and you can go right ahead

3:45:37with your presentation whenever you're ready good evening erga three members of council tonight i

3:45:45will be providing a presentation on the notice of objection to the intention to designate 331

3:45:51quare road east since you're all likely familiar with this property i will provide a very brief

3:45:57overview of the reasons for designation including the history of the property the statement of

3:46:02significance and the heritage attributes identified in the notice of intention to designate the

3:46:12Hanlon family took possession of the property in 1832 only four years after the founding of Puslench

3:46:19like many settlers the Hanlins would have lived in a log house until they acquired the resources

3:46:25necessary to construct a proper home the farmhouse that stands on the property today was built by

3:46:31James Hanlon in 1864 in the gothic revival style that was popular in the mid 19th century

3:46:38the house is built of granite field stone which means that it is constructed from stones sourced

3:46:43directly from the surrounding landscape each hold by john and his sons james and jack through our

3:46:50evaluation of the Hanlon farmhouse staff determined that the house meets four of the nine criteria

3:47:01required for designating a property under part four of the Ontario Heritage Act only two criteria

3:47:08only two criteria are required for a property to be eligible for designation to summarize the house

3:47:14has designed value as an excellent example of a 19th century gothic revival stone farmhouse

3:47:21built with a high degree of craftsmanship the Hanlon farmhouse has historic value because of its

3:47:28association with the early settlement of Puslench Township lastly the property has contextual value

3:47:35because it is important in defining and maintaining the historic character of the

3:47:39Quare Road streetscape staff have worked closely with the property owner's consultant to identify

3:47:48the heritage attributes that would ensure the most important features of the house are conserved

3:47:53while permitting flexibility for adaptive reuse of the structure the heritage attributes listed

3:47:59in the notice of intention to designate cover the exterior of the main house but do not include

3:48:04the summer kitchen at the rear of the building or any interior features if council withdraws the

3:48:14intention to designate the property will be removed from the municipal register on january 1st 2025

3:48:21if the property owner then decides that they would prefer to demolish the farmhouse there

3:48:25will be nothing the city can do to prevent demolition as the city of gual developed further south

3:48:32is it is imperative that we retain the few built heritage resources that remain south of Quare Road

3:48:38the James Hanlon farmhouse is one of these resources that will not only provide a unique

3:48:42amenity space to the proposed townhouse development but will anchor the community in the agricultural

3:48:47history of the area in closing i recommend that council issue the proposed designation bylaw for

3:48:55331 quare road east thank you for your time thank you and now is there going to be another

3:49:05presentation attached to this or just you that we do have a member from heritage gulf

3:49:10here to present yeah okay good so that's that's next okay great now i'm i'm so sorry i how do we

3:49:17say your name i'm so sorry is it uh jodat am i saying that right pretty close okay i'm i'm so sorry

3:49:26i tried no way yeah and uh thank you for being here and thank you for being on heritage gulf as

3:49:31well we appreciate that again i'm so sorry i i didn't say your name too well i'm so sorry about

3:49:36that but thank you for being here and uh and you can go right ahead with your presentation as well

3:49:41okay uh mr mayor uh members of the city council allow allow myself to introduce myself for you

3:49:50my name is jowdat abujawdi and i'm an architect and an urban planner as being a member of the heritage

3:49:56gulf's advisory committee i was delegated to reflect the heritage committee's recommendations

3:50:02with respect to the notice of objection to the mention to the intention to designate the

3:50:08hanlon farmhouse at 331 clear road east property at the june 12 2023 meeting of heritage gulf the

3:50:17committee passed the following motion that the comments provided by heritage gulf on the cultural

3:50:24heritage evaluation report related to the hanlon farmhouse at 331 clear road east be provided to

3:50:32staff and council for their consideration at the october 10 2023 meeting of heritage gulf the

3:50:40committee passed the following motion that heritage gulf supports the heritage attributes identified

3:50:46for the hanlon farm uh property mentioned okay uh in the staff report dated october 10 2023

3:50:56as you know a property may be designated under section 29 part 4 of the ontario heritage act if

3:51:02it meets two or more of the criteria used to determine cultural heritage value or interest

3:51:09as set out on ontario regulation 906 as amended by ontario regulation 569 22 now the hanlon farm

3:51:19at 331 clear road east meets four criteria it meets criteria one and two being a representative

3:51:27example of the ontario vernacular farmhouse style of the 19th century that is with a high degree of

3:51:34craftsmanship and the execution of its original stonework and exterior work trim and are clearly

3:51:42identified through 10 heritage attributes it also meets criteria four with the historical

3:51:48associative ties to the hanlon family an important settler family at buslinch township and what is

3:51:57now the city of gulf it equally meets criteria seven being of contextual value as it is part of

3:52:05the historical character of the clear road east streetscape and there's a vestige of early farming

3:52:12landscape of buslinch township and what is now gulf the designation of the hanlon farmhouse at 331

3:52:22clear road east also aligns with the city of gulf's official plans policy and strategy now heritage

3:52:31gulf is totally convinced that the hanlon farmhouse at 331 clear road east has significant cultural

3:52:38heritage value and its heritage attributes should be protected by designation under part four of the

3:52:45ontario heritage act as my colleague mentioned now should the council with all the notice of

3:52:52intention to designate the city will not be able to refuse demolition of the house should an application

3:52:59be received on after january 1st 2025 as the property will be removed from the municipal register

3:53:07of cultural heritage properties in accordance with the changes to the ontario heritage act

3:53:13affected by bill 23 designation will enable the council to review the proposed alterations for the

3:53:20property enforce heritage property standards and maintenance and refuse demolition based on that

3:53:28heritage gulf recommends that the city council proceeds with the designation of the helton

3:53:34farmhouse at 331 clear road east pursuant of part four section 29 of the ontario heritage act

3:53:44thank you do you have any questions thank you thank you very much we just see if there is any

3:53:49follow-up questions there isn't any and thank you again for being here appreciate it thank you

3:53:56we do have one delegation as i said a barbara skinner is barbara here yep barbara's coming down

3:54:02hi barbara thank you for coming thank you and feel free again four minutes uh 30 seconds you'll

3:54:23hear a chime and then you've got five minutes in total you could go right ahead okay thank you

3:54:28thank you mayor guthrie and city council for hearing me tonight regarding the delegation

3:54:34for heritage at 331 clear road east well formally lot 11 concession eight push Lynch

3:54:43my name is barbara skinner the man that built the house at 331 clear road east in 1860 was my was

3:54:54james handlin it was my great great grandfather his father john handlin and his mother

3:55:02ellen my great great great grandparents came over from county carlow ireland in 1832

3:55:10with three young children that was sorry i'm a little nervous that was 192 years ago

3:55:20they settled in push Lynch like many of their relatives

3:55:27in this area my great great grandfather john purchased 100 acres as per the archives

3:55:37in 1849 from the crown as it has been written and they lived on the land as early as 1832 when

3:55:48they arrived at this time in history canada was a colony not a country he paid for the land

3:55:56in pounds and shillings over several years he wasn't allowed to clear the land except build a house

3:56:03to live on it until he purchased until the purchase was paid in full which took several years

3:56:10after the final payment john built the barn he farmed the land with his sons when james was in his

3:56:17twenties he built this beautiful stone home that we're talking about tonight he married marie more

3:56:23handlin they bought the home from his parents james and marie had 10 children and they raised

3:56:29these children in the home on the farm i can only imagine the life and times that they endured

3:56:36in the 1800s on the farm and in this house with his parents and 10 children uh there's several

3:56:44newspaper articles and other documents in various archives that i have found about james handlin

3:56:53senior his life and times with the family in this community they had a hard life on the farm but

3:57:01back then that's all they knew they worked hard lived a hard life family their faith in the community

3:57:09in push lynch was what was important to them from all the articles in the archives that i have read

3:57:16if only the walls in this house could tell us the stories of life back then and what it was like

3:57:22in that area i can only imagine one of the many articles i found in the archives on james handlin

3:57:29was a newspaper clipping with the headline push lynch pioneer dead in capitals mr james handlin

3:57:37senior passes away in a 74th year that was in 1904 it goes on to say how kind and respected he was

3:57:45in the community being never known being never known to turn his back on anyone needing help

3:57:52he was ever the poor man's friend i'm going to end on that because the last six weeks i have been

3:57:58going through several archives books historical society libraries the basilica of our lady immaculate

3:58:06reading and gathering wonderful information on the handlands i can only say how proud i am to be

3:58:13a great great granddaughter the handlin family their home and the farm are very important part

3:58:21this area three generations lived and worked on the farm and raised their children this house is

3:58:28an important part of history for my family and for the community of guelph i'm hoping that the

3:58:34historical value of this home is valued and that is designated a heritage home thank you very much

3:58:41for your time thank you you didn't even get to the chime so that's all good you did great

3:58:49let me just see if there's a follow-up question okay there oh there is one from council or work

3:58:55go ahead through you margoth read to miss skinner would you please also thank uh

3:59:00katelyn for her correspondence and uh thank you for just sort of bringing the history alive

3:59:05thank you and there was a few pictures i hope you all receive them thank you so much

3:59:11yes they were in the correspondence so thank you yeah we just always saw them

3:59:15uh oh it looks like councillor coran on the screen and then alt after coran okay so coran first

3:59:22sure uh not a question for the delegation this is to place the motion on the floor and then make

3:59:26some comments okay well i'm i haven't dismissed the delegate yet so if you could just wait a second

3:59:33that'd be great councillor Allt you had a hand up uh did you want to ask a question to the delegate

3:59:39you didn't either okay so just if everyone could just wait until you hear me say you know okay thank

3:59:45you to the delegates that'd be good so we can close that off thank you to the delegate we're good

3:59:49and we appreciate your time here all right and so councillor coran is moving and it looks like alt

3:59:56with probably second am i right perfect and then i can go to any questions at this time

4:00:03go downer any other questions then queson uh so just clarity with staff so uh heritage go off the um

4:00:15the the owner of this property came with their own consultant recommending designation right

4:00:21and say if since changed their mind uh i know they're objecting to the designation because city

4:00:27heritage staff have been generally supportive of relocation of the farmhouse and it's not needed

4:00:32is that what they're saying is that their only argument uh i think through count through you

4:00:39mr. mayor to councillor downer yes that's my understanding so they're not objecting to any

4:00:44other criteria which is what the designation is so i i'm just trying to okay so just sort of maybe

4:00:50speaking out lion like process that because how do you go how do you make a peel based on

4:00:55why i'm working well with staff instead of the criteria sort of uh anyway i guess that's more

4:01:01of a comment than uh i you know than than anyway okay i just wanted to clarify that thing

4:01:09perfect uh queson it's a similar question i guess but uh yeah and then a roark okay yep go ahead

4:01:17thank you through you merit to staff um i think i had a similar question to councillor downer

4:01:21i think i just wanted to understand you know we sat here a few months ago you know

4:01:26talked about the plan seemed like a good plan um you know we were excited i even remember the road

4:01:31you know the orientation the movement of the the building so that it could still be visible from the

4:01:35road you know we kind of sat here and we're like yay this is a great case for adaptive reuse especially

4:01:41in consideration of what's coming next um and i i think i just would like to understand what

4:01:45happened between then and now through the mayor to councillor Klassen um i i can't get into the

4:01:57objector's mind and they're not here to delegate but what i can tell you is before the heritage

4:02:02act changed we would have worked through the development process with an applicant and considered

4:02:09designation when they were through that process we no longer have that available to us we have to act

4:02:15when when there is a prescribed event and the prescribed event is a development application

4:02:20so there is a process available to um landowners under the heritage act to go through an objection

4:02:28and to an appeal to allow discussions to happen with staff while they're going through an application

4:02:36my understanding is they're using the tools available to them under the act okay um to follow

4:02:48then what then you know i know you can't get into the head of the developer but then what would be

4:02:53the intention of the of using this tool to you know what do they want to tear it down do they

4:03:00want to build more units like what is the intention there through the mayor i i can't respond to what

4:03:07their intention is but the process does allow under an appeal for discussions to occur around what

4:03:14attributes would be designated or not and to allow for changes to occur to a notice of intention

4:03:20to designate through the appeal process as opposed to having the designation in place and then coming

4:03:27back to council and seeking amendments to a designation bylaw so it's just a process under

4:03:32under the act that allows for for them to to go to an appeal okay thank you thank you thank you

4:03:42um i am so sorry it's a work that's right thank you anyone else uh just before i go further no

4:03:50just a work okay go ahead thanks mega three through you to staff i just want to be certain i

4:03:54understand what the risk would be of not proceeding with the designation so actually just at the

4:04:01handlin corner there right um gordon and arkall um the original developer was a local person they

4:04:08had given land for the for the high school all this stuff it was all going to be lovely

4:04:12but it's up for sale now right so if we don't designate and the land changed hands and there's

4:04:18no protection at all right regardless of what the original plans are is that a risk

4:04:24through the mayor to councillor auroric if council chooses to not designate at this time we lose our

4:04:30opportunity to designate this property because of the wording of the act that only allows us to

4:04:35consider it at a prescribed event that's very clear thank you thanks and karana as well please

4:04:43with a question yeah no questions just comments all right we're at we're at uh comments go ahead

4:04:49okay great um thank you uh and i really appreciate it i i knew i couldn't ask a question of the

4:04:54delegation but i did want to express my sincere thanks to both katelin and barba for bringing

4:04:59forward additional photographs um that helped to frame the importance of this house i recall

4:05:06touring this house prior to it changing hands into developer hands from private hands to

4:05:11development hands so i can i can attest to its heritage value i was one of those who would have

4:05:16liked to have saved the summer kitchen and would have liked to have the house remain in situ and

4:05:20would have liked to have the neighborhood um designed around it but i gave up all of those

4:05:26dreams yeah because i knew that the designation would proceed and that at least we would get the

4:05:31main house protected in some form or another um for my ward six um colleagues well for all of my

4:05:39colleagues um we had a when we annexed this portion part of the south end of the city

4:05:45we had an agreement i don't know if it was a gentle person's agreement or a formal agreement with the

4:05:50township of pus lunch that we would protect the heritage that was there at the time of annexation

4:05:55uh Doyle Eustace uh Monroe Claire uh Farley um and uh Hanlon were all farmhouses that existed

4:06:07at that time all all the two are gone um some of them are the the Claire farmhouse is a replica

4:06:13the Tolton farmhouse is a traffic circle um this this farm uh 331 Claire is one of only two that

4:06:21remain out of this quadrant um that we uh agreed to protect so i see that this designation is is

4:06:28just a uh imperative part of that agreement uh and uh the the developer as counselor downer said

4:06:35agreed that it met the criteria and was willing to move forward so i i implore this um to be a

4:06:42unanimous um signal to both the development community uh and the community as a whole that

4:06:48we value our heritage and we will um go through the proper process to protect it

4:06:55thank you counselor old did you have a comment as well thank you very much mayor Guthrie yes i do

4:07:02um my my comment about the people and about building um because uh there is as counselor

4:07:09cron rightly pointed out uh such an absence of heritage markers in the south end i believe it

4:07:17does behoove us to support this unanimously but i think we also have to do that because of the

4:07:22families that we need to remember as well i remember when i was a high school student working

4:07:28with a john hamlin at st joseph's hospital uh washing dishes in the hospital and uh and his

4:07:35brother as well the hamlin's were a significant part of this community and one of the pad hamlin

4:07:41was also a counselor uh for the city of guelph actually an alderman at that time as well it's

4:07:47not just about building it's about people and the way we remember people is with structures

4:07:57we're also recognizing just as we're coming up to st patrick's day some of guelph's irish history

4:08:03by remembering the hamlin's and the fireleys and everyone else who have settled this area so uh let's

4:08:09make it unanimous okay thank you so much all right hearing and seeing nothing further on this uh i

4:08:19will call the vote is anyone against the designation and the and to not accept the objection

4:08:27that's unanimous thank you so much uh we're going to move on it looks like uh why don't we uh

4:08:35do ditto here uh to the next one on the list is notice of objection to intention to designate

4:08:432187 gordon street under section 29 part four of the ontario heritage act and we got a couple

4:08:53of presentations on this one as well with a correspondence in our package i will turn the

4:09:01microphone over to you steve go ahead good evening mayor guthrie and members of council

4:09:14through this staff report you've been made aware of the property owner's notice of objection to

4:09:20council's intention to designate 2187 gordon street under the ontario heritage act i'm here

4:09:27this evening to present staff's recommendation that council continue with its intention to designate

4:09:32the barn and the farmhouse at 2187 gordon street and issue a heritage designation bylaw in order

4:09:40to meet the prescribed deadlines of the legislation according to section 29 of the

4:09:47ontario heritage act council has until february 22 of this year to decide whether to proceed with

4:09:54the designation and if so may pass a bylaw proposed bylaw that that proposed bylaw is included in the

4:10:02staff report as attachment four so i want to just very briefly run through a recap um

4:10:14information and imagery that was shown to you at my last staff report on this property

4:10:20that recommended the intention to designate the stone the kid barn on the property is a barn

4:10:27with two parts it's a bank barn meaning it's built into the bank the the landscape itself

4:10:33and the stone barn at the rear is the original barn itself which is known as a stone slot barn

4:10:40the additional barn that faces gordon street is a heavy timber bank barn and again that's the addition

4:10:47to the original stone building so a statement of significance about this property um uh

4:10:57goes goes like this and again this is is recapping the heritage planning staff in consultation with

4:11:02heritage gulf we've prepared a cultural heritage evaluation of the property and it's worthy of

4:11:08designation under section 29 of the heritage act because it meets six of the prescribed criteria

4:11:15that six of the nine prescribed criteria for determining cultural heritage value or interest

4:11:21the heritage attributes of the property display design or physical value historical or associative

4:11:27value and contextual value the james kid barn is an early and rare example of a stone slot bank

4:11:38barn built by 1842 it was constructed using local fieldstone with slots in the walls this building

4:11:46is now the only one of its kind within the city of gulf it displays a high degree of craftsmanship

4:11:51that is rarely preserved preserved and it's linked with the kid family who occupied the

4:11:56property from the mid late mid to late 19th century james kid settled in the township of

4:12:02post linch in 1830 and contributed to the agricultural community at that time the property the

4:12:09two buildings on the property are connected with the marco longo farm across the road which is a

4:12:15protected cultural heritage landscape the barn was built into the bank and retains its function

4:12:24in this specific location the barn itself is a landmark when traveling on gordon street

4:12:34the what's known as the blair farmhouse has cultural heritage value it's an early and rare

4:12:40example of a material or construction method and in this case it's the use of formed concrete for

4:12:46wall construction in a rural residential building it's connected to the blair family and early another

4:12:52early settler family of the post linch area and the blairs emigrated from scotland in the 1870s

4:12:59and had farms on both sides of gordon street as mentioned the family was well known for their

4:13:04extensive orchards the farmhouse is the concrete farmhouse is a historically linked to its surroundings

4:13:12and it too is a landmark along gordon street the barn and farmhouse support the agricultural

4:13:18landscape of the surrounding area the property of 2187 gordon street maintains and defines the

4:13:26surrounding use for agricultural purposes and it was and as it has for the past two centuries

4:13:35i i don't want to read out too much in this and a lot of this is reviewed but the pictures

4:13:42most of these pictures still hold true as to the condition of the the building itself it's important

4:13:49to point out though that the attributes that would be protected by this designation bylaw

4:13:55and those would include the three door openings on the south wall

4:14:00the upper door in the south wall the original form of the bank barn with an end gable roofline and

4:14:05single story north wall and a two-story south wall so again that's that too it's sort of a walk-in

4:14:13basement if you will for a barn um the exterior i'm sorry the location and orientation of the stone

4:14:19bank barn is important as an attribute to maintain the building is being built across a slope

4:14:26the exterior and interior of all the extant stone walls of the slot bank barn should be attributes

4:14:31and i say extant stone walls because unfortunately one of those walls is no longer standing

4:14:37all original slot ventilation slot ventilation openings and window door opening seen in the

4:14:43exterior and interior of the extant stone walls would be heritage attributes

4:14:50with the james kid barn in the heavy timber barn addition the original form of the addition

4:14:57is important as an attribute with its roofline and walls the location and orientation of that

4:15:04addition along the slope the vertically oriented exterior wood board cladding is important

4:15:13and most of it is still there extant cutouts in those vertical boards in the upper north and south

4:15:19gable walls create the shape of a florian cross and if there was a quiz in this presentation i might

4:15:25ask you know if we remember what that cross means uh the the stonework uh has tape pointed stone walls

4:15:34in the timber frame addition and on the interior many heavy timber framing members including pole

4:15:40rafters hand-hewn posts and beams and original joinery as you can see in this image the imbrication

4:15:47pattern created by pressed metal sheets clad the roof so quickly the Blair farmhouse does have its

4:15:58heritage attributes that would be protected as well and that includes the two-story original form of

4:16:03the house with its hip roof and l floor plan and the exterior walls constructed a formed in place

4:16:09concrete covered with a render that is ensized with a pattern that mimics ashlar stone so in

4:16:17closing i'll i'll reiterate staff's recommendation and that is that staff recommends council continue

4:16:24with its intention to designate 21 87 gordon street an issue the proposed heritage designation bylaw

4:16:31bylaw number 2024-20901 which is an attachment for for 21 87 gordon street in order to meet the

4:16:40prescribed deadlines of the legislation thank you i'd be happy to answer any questions if you have

4:16:45any questions at this time i know that we've we've sort of had this before when you were here before

4:16:53on this one but it looks like we have couple three so alt karan busatil please thank you very much

4:17:01margat three through you to staff i appreciate your presentation on this particular barn and my

4:17:07understanding is the barns of this particular vintage uh and particular design are increasingly

4:17:15rare in ontario i believe there's one just outside of allora and perhaps two others uh in uh southern

4:17:22ontario it's wondering if you could just expand on that and why this inside guelph is of particular

4:17:29significance through you mr marot to councillor Allt uh councillor you're correct in that this is a

4:17:41seems to be a vanishing type of uh barn of barn in our part of ontario and as i have said it's the

4:17:49only stone barn especially stone slot barn left in guelph um it's very rare that that barn construction

4:17:58completely in stone it's very rare within wellington county uh and an additional example

4:18:05outside of the county but in the waterloo region would be in the area of blair and cambridge at the

4:18:11rare site where there is a quite successful rehabilitation of that stone slot barn but

4:18:18you're correct it is a uh when i state that it's a rare type of building that is the truth

4:18:25thank you very much america not to belabor it i would be happy to move this in my comments are

4:18:30in a city that prides itself on its agricultural college i think it behooves us to uh support the

4:18:36preservation of this kind of uh in uh agricultural institution okay thank you just again we're

4:18:44getting ahead of ourselves this is the second time tonight we're kind of getting it just a

4:18:47little bit ahead of ourselves but i've made a note to come back to you councillor Allt not a

4:18:51back to you councillor Allt not a problem but we still have some questions and um and we we have

4:18:57another delegate uh delegate not a delegate but another presenter still as well so this is just

4:19:02questions um to our heritage planner steven robinson at this time we have another presenter

4:19:08after that and then we're going to get to uh questions and we can table the the recommendations

4:19:15at that time okay so this is just questions to steven robinson and i believe i have uh caron

4:19:20next and then uh busital quick questions to stop the first is the timing of uh this site being on

4:19:28the register usually outbuildings like barns are not on a heritage register can you confirm that this

4:19:34was on the heritage register um at uh this property recently changed hands from private hands to

4:19:42developer hands and that it was known to the purchaser that this would have been uh of interest

4:19:48to the city uh for protection through you mr mayor to councillor caron i believe the answer to

4:19:58the question is how long the the kit barn or the property has been listed on the municipal

4:20:04register of cultural heritage properties and that is since 2009 when council expanded that register

4:20:12great and my second question mostly because it's you mr robinson and i know that you have extensive

4:20:18um um credentials across ontario on adaptive reuse of barns because one of the things that

4:20:24i've heard um in conversation uh is that what are you going to do with a barn is there's no

4:20:30adaptive reuse potential and and and you gave a good example in blare where there's community space

4:20:36there's event space um that there there is an adaptive reuse potential for a barn and that

4:20:44this site lends itself very well to that through you mr mayor i just want to confirm if the

4:20:55councillor is asking a question i completely agree with the councillor's comment okay i i believe

4:21:02that the the kid barn uh building itself although it was designed for agricultural purposes it's

4:21:10it's a large a large structure that has an incredible history architectural character and

4:21:19a large amount of an incredible amount of adaptive reuse potential it would not be something that

4:21:26could be done inexpensively clearly but it is something that could i i see that as being

4:21:33something that has the potential to be very successful uh the the reuse of the building

4:21:40to be successful i think would have to be carefully and sensitively integrated into

4:21:46the land use that's already been approved for that area but i believe that's something that is

4:21:50possible okay and kind of a follow-up to that and maybe it's it's for our planning staff more than

4:21:56our heritage staff but the the block plan for this larger piece of property has not yet been

4:22:04approved or come forward so this site could be residential it could be commercial it could be

4:22:11it it could be parkland it could be that that hasn't been determined what what the potential

4:22:18range of uses could be at this time through the mayor to councillor caron the

4:22:25clarimony secondary plan does designate this property as high density residential

4:22:31and and that is the expectation for future use of that property

4:22:36keeping in mind that the the plan also looks to conserve the heritage resources on that property

4:22:43with a future redevelopment ambusatil for questions yes thank you and through the mayor

4:22:52uh to um mr robinson thank you very much for the presentation i just have a question about

4:22:58the designation process it was distressing to hear about the wall not standing and you know the

4:23:04slats not being there but so does the designation process if designated elevate the responsibility

4:23:12for present uh preservation and does it elevate the consequences of not preserving so what does

4:23:22this do in terms of respecting and maintaining the property through you mr mayor to councillor

4:23:31busatil that currently with the the building or the the property being listed as non designated

4:23:38on the register the only controls that that council or the municipality would have would be through

4:23:43actual demolition with a property becoming designated under the heritage acts not just

4:23:50demolition but alterations are controlled through i'd rather say guided through the heritage permit

4:23:58process so that those attributes that are identified in the heritage designation by-law

4:24:04are truly conserved it designation does is a way to protect those heritage attributes

4:24:13and it when when we consider things like property standards and other related by-laws that when a

4:24:21property is designated that's it officially identifies those attributes that need particular

4:24:28consideration thank you very much okay seeing no further questions at this time we're going to

4:24:37call up uh david uh kemeletti hopefully i'm saying that uh last name right there and uh from heritage

4:24:44gulf thank you very much uh david for joining us and uh go right ahead and uh did i say your

4:24:49last name correctly good thank you mr okay good all right and and you go right ahead with your

4:24:54presentation as well oh yes i'll be very brief uh most points have been covered um heritage gulf

4:25:00had a very passionate um debate in september about um accelerating the designations for these

4:25:08properties um basically our role is to assess whether or not property meets any of the criteria

4:25:16for heritage designation there was a home run because the home of the barn collectively meets

4:25:22six criteria when you only have to be two we're also supported by the fact that um these properties

4:25:29have been approved on the claire malpy plan as a site to conserve we also felt that it's about

4:25:37time to get around to this as mentioned this has been on the registry since 2009 and finally um

4:25:45what's given a bit of um emphasis here is how rare stone barns are there's this as mentioned

4:25:53it's only one of two in uh county of wellington so just to try and give some perspective i

4:25:59contacted Hugh Fraser who's written a letter of support tonight and he's with uh the interior barn

4:26:05preservation and i asked him do we know how many stone barns there are in Ontario and he answers

4:26:10his follows i wish i knew how many old stone barns were still standing and that's a question many of

4:26:16us at Ontario barn preservation would like to better understand my guess is it's not many

4:26:22and even fewer that are in good shape he says i have very little experience with stone barns

4:26:28since they're in my agraria where i live at work so for all of these particularly the rarity of this

4:26:34type of property heritage wealth was strongly in support of the designation thank you very much

4:26:41david any follow-up questions for david no hearing and seeing none so you were very truthful you

4:26:49said you'd be brief and you worked so thank you very much okay uh so that is uh all of the

4:26:56presentations and so uh councillor alde I did tell you I wrote your name down there to to move

4:27:03the recommendations on this one so can I get a thumbs up from you that you're still good with

4:27:06that thank you uh and uh a vertical second yeah okay thank you and is there any other questions

4:27:14then at this time that need to be considered by council oh okay councillor work okay actually no

4:27:23questions so it's just comments i'll start with councillor work thank you mayor gathby

4:27:29councillor Allt was talking about our agricultural heritage and today is canadian ag day and I recall

4:27:36you know I came I ran for council in part because I was so interested in the clear mall

4:27:40i'll be secondary plan and what was going to happen there and there was a lot of conversation

4:27:43at the time about those two barns potentially being a gateway but that it was a clear nod to

4:27:50our heritage so as the last stats show there's 7 000 jobs in gulf that are derived from agriculture

4:27:57we're canada's food university like this is an important thing for us my colleagues know I'm not

4:28:03you know the number one heritage champion around this table but this is really significant this is

4:28:10definitely a landmark not only for ward six but for the city and is an important part of the gateway

4:28:15and you know I hope we don't see these treasures as a burden because we should be seeing them as

4:28:23a resource so tear review in their heart uh village area they have restored the heart farmhouse it's

4:28:30turned into a community room it's got some short-term rentals available for the residents in that

4:28:34community uh when we were in London for AMO we visited west five that's a high density area

4:28:42and they've got this sort of common area park space with an amphitheater where people can gather

4:28:47and so there could be a spectacular amphitheater with that stone wall there could really be something

4:28:53quite stunning that's real place making so Councillor Bousetel talks about place making

4:28:58all the time around where is our where's our piazza where is our heritage and I think this has an

4:29:04opportunity to be exactly that so I think there's a lot of potential and I think there's definitely

4:29:11a compelling reason to preserve it great thank you very much Councillor O'Rourke

4:29:19seeing nothing further looks like I will call the vote is anyone against this

4:29:25it's unanimous as well okay thank you moving right along we have the bylaws now there's a couple that

4:29:37had to be amended and added so they're just going to come up on the screen and Councillor Chew you're

4:29:45in charge of yelling these out for us tonight so if you wouldn't mind just reading them out just

4:29:52so that they're captured with those amendments please please go right ahead so today that bylaws

4:30:0520889 20893 through 20896 20901 20907 20912 20917 and 20918 be approved subject to section 284

4:30:25dot 11 of the municipal act perfect and will your word mate second thank you

4:30:35O'Rourke will second the bylaws any questions on those comments hearing and seeing none I'll call

4:30:43the vote on the bylaws is anyone against nobody that's unanimous as well thank you very much

4:30:52we are at the end of our planning meeting today there are no mayors announcements other than to say

4:31:00I will see everyone here tomorrow morning at 10 o'clock for our special council meeting so have

4:31:08a great night and we'll see everybody that can make it for tomorrow okay take care bye bye

4:31:13oh did I do adjournment no kind of jumped I kind of jumped the gun uh

4:31:22councillor billings you are definitely moving adjournment aren't you yes and councillor

4:31:26kaiten is definitely seconding adjournment right yes let's say you went against adjournment

4:31:33nobody okay for real we're out of here see you tomorrow bye