City Council

12:06All right, good afternoon everybody. I'd like to call the meeting to order

12:12and right off the top of the agenda we are looking to move into a closed a closed session of council

12:20and it will pop up on the screen and I was reading out loud that the council of the city of Guelph

12:25now hold a meeting that is closed to the public pursuant to section 2392 b and c of the municipal

12:32act regarding personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board

12:37employees and proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by the municipality or local

12:44board the titles here are july 2025 public appointments to advisory committees of council

12:54and the downtown land acquisition consideration with that is there any disclosure of pecuniary

13:02interest any general nature there for the closed items before I look to call the vote

13:07nope don't hear or see any um can I have someone moved to go into closed uh alton busatil will

13:12help me out with that and I'll call the vote is anyone against moving into closed that's unanimous

13:19that's great so we will have a closed meeting of council just for probably half an hour and we will

13:24be back out and we'll start the open session at that time thank you okay everyone this is going to

40:34call the meeting to uh order out here thank you so much for uh joining us it is tuesday

40:42july 22nd 2025 for it is five o'clock not four thirty it is five o'clock and we are starting

40:50our open meeting so thank you very much for being here uh right off the top we're just going to

40:56ask if you can stand if you are able uh and we will have our national anthem great thanks everybody

42:28just a moment of silent reflection as we continue through the agenda

42:44thank you and our territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on our

42:48privilege to live and work here in gulf a city built over rich indigenous histories

42:53we're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land the people who

42:58live here today and the generations to come if our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

43:03we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude this place we call

43:08gulf has served as traditional lands in a place of refuge for many peoples over time but more

43:12specifically the anna monorock and the holand shoni this land is held as the treaty lands and

43:18territory with the missus august of the credit first nation and gulf lies directly adjacent to

43:22the holand min track and is part of the long established traditional hunting grounds for the

43:26six nations of the grand river many first nations inuit and mat people who have come from across

43:32turtle island call gulf home today uh thank you is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any

43:40general nature there of for any of the items in front of us hearing and seeing none so i'm just

43:46going to give a quick summary of the closed session we went into a closed session under

43:52two items the first one was uh july 2025 public appointments to advisory committees of council

44:00and the second one was downtown land acquisitions consideration so just on the second one i'll

44:05talk about that one first we uh did give direction to staff on that particular matter and the first

44:11one which is the public appointments i'm going to ask councillor ritchardson to please bring that

44:16forward out and open for us thank you mayor and through you are we going to put it up on the

44:22on the thanks clerks thanks i'm pleased to move and seconded by uh councillor gibson that susan j

44:29ferguson prior jennifer potke kathleen bites charles stacey and dean martin be appointed to

44:34the accessibility advisory committee for a term ending november 2026 or until such time as successors

44:40are appointed great thank you to you both and uh is there anything further on that before i call the

44:45vote no okay i'll call the vote then is anyone against nobody that's unanimous so thank you

44:53very much and thank you again for people that are continuing to look to fill some of our vacancies on

44:57some of our accessory uh not accessory are on this particular one which is the accessibility

45:05but there's also other council committee appointments available too so continue to

45:09you know look around see if there's something that that you might be interested in as we move forward

45:15there's minutes now for us to consider from the open council meetings held june 10th 17th and 24th

45:22of 2025 and also the committee the whole meeting minutes on june 3rd 2025 to be confirmed as recorded

45:30and without being read with with my colleagues thank you uh councillor Allt will move and and boost

45:35it till we'll we'll second is there anything further on the minutes nobody okay great i'll call the

45:41vote is anyone against those nobody so that's unanimous as well okay jumping right in there's

45:49the first one is a public meeting to hear applications under the planning act and it is in

45:56accordance with uh one that i'm bringing forward under the maril decision and it is uh the location

46:03is called it is is address is 343 waterloo avenue it's an official plan and is owning bylaw amendment

46:10that's in front of us and this is a public and decision meeting at the same time um we do have

46:17one delegation that has signed up which happens to be the applicants the property owners uh i will

46:24just give a very high level uh sort of introduction here so this um this came to light for me just a

46:32few months ago and i i didn't know until i met these people that their place had actually uh

46:40had arson so in the middle of the day somebody came in and uh well let let their office on fire

46:47with staff there and um they luckily everyone was able to get out but their place was completely

46:53destroyed in having to rebuild they're looking to rebuild their office space so the commercial

47:00would still stay but they're looking to add residential units above and to do that uh they're

47:08based on the project that they're proposing uh there is uh some there's variances that are

47:14requested uh there's uh parking issues as well there from a from a um less parking that would

47:21be required so i'm just i'm just tabling those so it's very transparent so everyone knows that

47:26however on on sort of the scale of what i believe is a huge benefit to the city is not only can

47:33these people get their business back up and running after what they've gone through but they're

47:38actually looking to provide uh nine units of residential which we all know we need but two

47:44of them will be dedicated to meeting our affordable housing um strategy which is what's

47:51to be honest is kind of rare we have don't have people that are coming forward with that right

47:54now and that's a huge need in our community um they're also willing to actually build this project

48:00completely environmentally friendly no no gas all heat pumps that's a dedicated project

48:08that is going to specialize in environmental um use and they really want to market it that way so

48:14you know bicycle parking is available uh and they're going to as i said have those two units

48:20that are going to be dedicated to our affordable housing strategy um i want to just uh mention that

48:26uh all of the planning act provisions were done appropriately so you have to give 20 days notice

48:34that was done the mailing to the entire neighborhood was done in accordance with what's required and

48:41in fact we actually even did a mailing in the in the in the media as well so all of that was

48:47all done appropriately um we did receive um i think four or five pieces of correspondence

48:54one had some concerns about it um i have talked to that individual and actually um i i feel like

49:01i've been able to answer some of the questions for that individual one is the direct neighbor

49:07to the proposed site who was actually supporting what's in front of us here today to get these

49:13homes built and uh the the rest have been supportive uh from a from an advocacy group with a gcat about

49:21the bicycle parking and whatnot as well there's been no other correspondence to me at all no

49:27other questions at all no delegations have signed up um other than just the applicants that are here

49:32although because it's a public meeting we can always see if anybody wants to to jump in with

49:36their opinions too i'm going to stop there i am looking for my colleagues to see if there's some

49:41support on this and just to make sure everyone knows there are two ways that any mayor can bring

49:48forward uh a report like this they can bring it forward in a manner that only requires one third

49:56of council to vote on this and i have not done that i've brought it forward because i feel

50:02based on the benefits that are in front of us here i think it's worthy of all of us supporting it

50:08and all of this is a regular vote of council so it requires a regular majority of council to

50:14vote on it and i hope i'm doing it justice but perhaps the applicants can do it better than me

50:20so i'll ask the applicants to come forward and introduce themselves at this time uh they have

50:25a presentation for us as well and just so you know there's no more than 10 minutes there'll be a

50:31time at the nine minute and 30 second mark to give you a warning so welcome to morgan and martha

50:37adams and uh when you need things changed on their presentation i think you could just ask clerks

50:43to go to the next slide and i will uh the timer will start whenever you start so thank you for

50:49coming and presenting to us today over to you thank you mayor guthrie um first of all we just

50:55want to introduce ourselves my name is morgan adams i'm martha adams and um before we get going i

51:00just want to ask your grace we you know we we've never done this before um not in our wildest

51:06dreams that we thought we'd be in this position um and so as we go through fumble along we just

51:11sort of ask for your grace in that so thank you so much in advance for for your understanding and

51:17so i i want to share with you a little bit about what 343 waterloo avenue was we affectionately

51:25call it 343 and so i ask for your patience when i default to calling it 343 our building wasn't

51:34just a commercial building if i sum it up in a word it was a community our tenants weren't just

51:42local small businesses that operated out of our space we really did nurture a sense of community

51:50in our building whether it was regular potlucks that we all had or celebrating milestones that

51:56community was very much there then came the day that an arsonist entered our building looking to

52:05attack one of our tenants and thankfully we are still incredibly grateful today that everyone was

52:12safe however morgan and i uh are still dealing with the hardship of the loss of our building

52:22and more than that the community that we built and nurtured if i could ask for the help this one

52:29give the screen one okay great again thank you for your understanding in that and so today council

52:36members we're coming to present to you a redevelopment of 343 because from adversity comes opportunity

52:47the tragic loss of 343 to arson was a moment of true hardship from morgan and i but today we

52:53stand with a renewed vision one that aligns with guelph's leadership in sustainability affordability

53:02and growth here you see a site plan it's part of the documentation that we provided in it you can see

53:12the existing building and what we're proposing is a slight shifting of the property which we have the

53:18letter from our neighbor as well just to provide us with some more parking on the site as well

53:23as we all know um canada ontario even guelph we have a housing crisis and with it we have very

53:36low vacancy rates and the cost of living is rising one of the things that we thought to ourselves when

53:42we um you know had to pick ourselves up from this was how can we help the community uh in this need

53:49and so that's where we came up with the idea of saying okay how do we um you know provide some

53:54residential units for the community and so 343 is the location where we propose a new

54:04environmentally responsible development this project would include three residential floors

54:10with nine units directly contributing to guelph's housing supply the first floor i'd like to note

54:17will be rebuilt to get morgan and i back to business i also want to know that the uh the

54:26commercial space would just be morgan and i no other commercial tenants morgan and i have pride

54:37in the fact that we live in guelph and we work in guelph and one of the aspects that we're incredibly

54:43proud of is that the city of guelph is a leader in environmental solutions we also believe that

54:52a community is built by partnering really hands joining and so today council members we want to

55:00share with you how we're joining hands with the city of guelph and the initiatives that the city

55:07champions 343 the redevelopment of it really is built on three key pillars of community

55:16environment and well-being council members i'd love to share with you a little bit about

55:22the community aspects that we propose the first are accessible units barrier free

55:30grounds and interior and having an elevator that is accessible to all floors so all floors are

55:35accessible to all individuals we're also very excited about accessible bike parking and focusing

55:43on public transportation we have access to busing directly in front of the building and it provides

55:50easy access to both downtown guelph and the greater guelph area we also are excited about

56:00our commitment in zoning to two truly affordable units that meet the council's approved standards

56:08and we are committed to environmental initiatives as well and investment in the community by bringing

56:13in a local regional contractor for the environment you know we're very proud to be in guelph and the

56:23fact that this is a focus in the community we want to contribute to that need as well and so

56:30i'll have commitment to renewable energy and efficiency within the building some of the

56:33proposals that we have in terms of our building is having a naturally heated driveway and walkway

56:38eliminates the use of salt it protects our groundwater quality it also makes sustainable

56:43winter maintenance great electric charging stations solar panels in the building heat pumps with no

56:50gas and increased insulation including the walls but also the windows and much more things in the

56:57building council members when it comes to well-being we're excited about having green space that I

57:07affectionately call the zen garden for the tenants in addition to that a shared balcony space

57:16to yes focus on well-being and that sense of community as well we're also focused on financial

57:23well-being stat after stat year after year finances are cited as one of the greatest

57:30stressors that Canadians face and here in guelph that's no exception we face finances as being

57:40one of our greatest sources of stress and again over half of Canadians report

57:47negative effects from financial stress specifically linked to shelter costs so what are we doing

57:54we are helping with two significant life expenses which is rent affordability and because we are

58:01environmentally focused reducing those utility costs for tenants as well and then looking at

58:08sustainable transportation taking steps towards guelph's positive goal there whether that's in

58:16bike public transit or car share potential in any project you need partners and we're proud to

58:27partner with guelph with the cip grant application to be submitted upon a positive change in zoning

58:34here if this is what happens it shows our commitment not only to the affordable units but an actual

58:39length in time for that affordability within the community furthermore we've partnered with CMHC

58:45they have a focus on affordability accessibility and environmental sustainability with my liaison

58:51at CMHC they have expressed a real interest and an excitement for this project because it's one that

58:58can be done now most of the projects that they see have a five to ten-year time frame and that's

59:03not their goal their goal is to get people in houses now and so they are really excited about

59:07this project happening council members the heart and intention of this project is to utilize our

59:21resources to join hands with the initiatives of the city of guelph in order to be of service to

59:27our community morgan and i could have just built back our commercial space but what we want to do

59:36is to give back to our community in a positive manner 343 is a development project that balances

59:46growth sustainability and affordability and i do want to mention that we will also respect and

59:55delegate to the authority of the city planner and the chief city engineer and so with grateful hearts

1:00:03we want to thank you all so much for the opportunity to to talk with you today great thank you morgan

1:00:14and uh and martha we appreciate that and um just before i turn over to my colleagues if there's

1:00:20any questions just as a follow-up um you'll notice council that the uh the motions uh in front of you

1:00:29is yes the first one is more technical in nature around the zoning allowances to allow this project

1:00:35to take place um but just as uh martha just said the second one is that a complete site plan

1:00:42application be submitted to the satisfaction of the city chief planner and the city engineer prior

1:00:48to issuance of the building permits um so in a way i think it's kind of a failsafe that if there's

1:00:54anything that's required it will still have to go through uh christa terry and and such within our own

1:01:00staff um also that the zoning will only be contingent upon and the permits will only be allowed if

1:01:08the affordable housing agreement is penned in in a contract with the city of guelph and that there's

1:01:14no no skirting any fees here at all so everything would still be done appropriately there um in regards

1:01:21to the um you know there's some stuff that was attached to the to the application like records

1:01:28of site condition and all this stuff which we would normally never see that would normally take

1:01:32place excuse me take place at site plan and things like that um but that's all attached for you um as

1:01:38well uh so with that um i will turn it over to my colleagues to see if there's any questions at all

1:01:44oh um before i do that though i'll just see if there's anybody sorry um just wait a second okay

1:01:50um we just have to no no i can't no steven i'm going to go to questions of the applicant and

1:01:54then i'll i'll turn it over to that so questions questions of the applicant so uh councillor billings

1:02:01and then busitil and karan so through you mr mayor um my understanding is there is a short

1:02:10fall in in parking the number of spaces that are required so i was just wondering if you

1:02:16could speak to that and how you're addressing that issue yeah so thank you for your question

1:02:22yeah thank you um we do recognize there is a short fall in the parking requirement

1:02:28one of the things that we uh wanted to do was to provide other alternatives for people

1:02:34in the building including the accessible biking uh parking the access to the transportation

1:02:39you know one of the things that we also want to focus on is the wealth transportation master plan

1:02:44and the goal there of course is to get people into uh walking biking bus routes by 2051

1:02:51and uh to do that through policy to through development along transit corridors and and

1:02:57we feel this is a great project to be able to um uh you know do that with the city um as well

1:03:05in terms of um you know other things that we're looking to do in terms of reducing the need for

1:03:10a car a car share um um is proposed um delivery lockers for things like you know people order food

1:03:19and have a deliver they can don't have to go out to go get it they can have things delivered to

1:03:22these lockers that are there um in the buildings available for people um in addition to that the

1:03:30commercial space that we're using um you know we're not there in the evenings and we're not there

1:03:36in the weekends so there's additional parking that can be there uh and furthermore we're looking to

1:03:41do tandem parking um so the ability to have sort of two cars parked in in one spot for those that

1:03:48don't need to leave right if i'm there all day working i don't need to leave someone can park

1:03:51behind me um and so that can create some additional parking in that site so through your worship

1:03:59are you not also proposing that maybe i don't know one two three units uh in the lease agreement

1:04:06it'll be stated that there is no parking for those units or is that not the case and i'm

1:04:12misunderstood thank you for that clarification uh council member if yeah no that is correct uh

1:04:19your understanding is correct that they're in the lease agreements that we're going to have

1:04:24there will be notifications that there is no parking um associated with each unit so there

1:04:30there will be parking there it'll be based on either a needs basis or a first come but they

1:04:34they will know that there's there's no parking necessarily with the the unit itself and if i

1:04:40may councillor a part of the um the thought process and action plan of this building is that it is

1:04:49an environmentally friendly building and so it is um it is marketed as that um that is that is not

1:04:58only our focus but our uh steps in our in our execution um as well okay thank you

1:05:07okay uh busatil and then karan thank you and thank you morgan for the call today taking my call

1:05:16so councillor billings asked my question about tandem parking and parking and i was thinking

1:05:22about tending it's like family parking right yeah put all the keys and who gets out first

1:05:27kind of thing so thank you for that morgan in your presentation you mentioned cmhc and i wasn't clear

1:05:34i didn't quite hear where you are in the application process you mentioned that you're connected

1:05:39with can you just help me with that and also tie in whether or not this decision impacts that process

1:05:46so uh the application process for cmhc uh it's clearly delineated in their uh website on on the

1:05:54steps we have to do one of the steps to do the application process is um having the site plan

1:06:00application submitted along with zoning and other pieces so this is one piece of that puzzle

1:06:06the other pieces that we've done the um environmental stage one phase one rather phase two the rsc

1:06:11geotechnical all have come back with flying colors um and so uh we've had many calls they have a

1:06:18liaison individual uh that works with cmhc that sort of helps guide us in the application process

1:06:24and gives us feedback on our project itself and so that's where we are in that process so

1:06:29Liz is the lady that we're working with and and she's been helping us um compile the data we need

1:06:34for the application and then is uh you know waiting with baited breath to uh submit it to the next

1:06:41stage which is underwriting oh so you had a second question i'm sorry no that was uh tandem park and

1:06:47you just say family parking kind of thing okay thanks and karan please thank you and i want to

1:06:57thank the proponents because actually everything you've described everything from the transportation

1:07:02transit oriented development to the affordable housing to the environment of the heat pumps the

1:07:09carbon neutral uh building like everything that you've described is exactly what we as a council have

1:07:14been encouraging and trying to incentivize uh throughout this entire term of council is part

1:07:19of our strategic plan so um so i commend you on that um the other thing is that um you know the

1:07:27planning process requires a number of studies and i understand that's going to happen and i understand

1:07:31site plan's going to happen and i understand that all of the other planning processes are going to

1:07:36happen so i know that one of the concerns i have is not about the project but about the process so

1:07:44why i mean i'll just be blunt why aren't you following the normal process

1:07:49so when i met with cam i went to the the city sorry mayor gretteri my apologies um i went to the

1:07:59state of the city right the event that happens in the city every year and there were some comments on

1:08:06um the process of doing proposals and and how a building gets done and obviously we were only

1:08:12four months into the the fire at that point maybe six months in the fire and i asked a couple

1:08:17questions and he had asked me if i would come and talk to him afterwards right and so when that's

1:08:21sort of the first time that i had met with mayor gretteri and uh he asked me to come to his office

1:08:26we we met and and the it was clear that uh we both felt that this was a good project and please

1:08:35mayor gretteri i don't want to speak for you um and and uh and so the thought process was this could

1:08:42save us some valuable time we weren't trying to avoid any kind of fees to the city we weren't trying

1:08:47to avoid any kind of um study that needs to happen to make sure everything is safe and compliant

1:08:53but it was a matter of saying look we were we've been out of our building our business has been

1:08:57affected uh we need to get back as soon as possible and the suggestion for this route was from mayor

1:09:05gretteri and so yeah sorry i apologize please no it's just gonna say thank you thank you for

1:09:11for for that that's that's really the root of my question was whether or not this is this is

1:09:17is not about circumventing process a good project is a good project yeah and uh yeah i don't want

1:09:24to i don't have any more questions so i don't want to get into commentary i'll um i'll ask

1:09:28some questions to staff but uh i do want to commend you on on the project itself is exactly the

1:09:33type of development that i think council would have supported so um um i'm glad you're here i

1:09:39just don't like how you got here okay thank you if i could just jump in as well council to yourself

1:09:47and others they cannot do the application with cmhc unless the zoning is done so that that is a huge

1:09:55hold up and i think speed under these circumstances is exactly why i i've brought it here this way

1:10:01i'm still following all the regular public process issues so that that hasn't been um amended at all

1:10:08i have nothing further so i'd like to open it up then to um anybody else that wants to speak to

1:10:14the matter thank you very much you can have a have a seat and and we'll see what happens so thank you

1:10:20and i'll just yell out a number on the screen here for anyone that wants to call in

1:10:24and it will come up on the screen as well it's 519 uh 837 5603 we'll wait three four minutes or so

1:10:32like we normally do to see if anyone wants to call in okay we're good there's been no calls in on

1:12:52this matter either are you okay yeah you're you're allowed yep if you yeah and come on down

1:13:00yep okay and just state your name please thank you hi i'm daniel kaufman great thanks for coming

1:13:14go right ahead well really i'm just speaking because of what i've just heard here i think it's

1:13:18something that's really great um especially in a time where depending on the way that things are built

1:13:23you can encourage or discourage community i think with something like them where they're

1:13:28already trying to focus on getting tents together and building community there i think that's great

1:13:32i'm not going to get deep into it but i do have my own landlord where it's a bit difficult for us

1:13:37to make community it's hard to communicate with them the space isn't necessarily built for that

1:13:41and we'd like to move forward with that but for this kind of situation where they'd like to put

1:13:46that first and forward i think that's really great and i just wanted to say that and just

1:13:51support that as a citizen i think that's great great that's all thank thank you very much appreciate

1:13:57no no questions from any of my my colleagues no okay thank you very much for coming thank you

1:14:03okay so it's back to us council and um councillor Goller you said that you would move thank you and

1:14:11richardson i think i've had others but richardson said second thank you so it's on the floor are

1:14:17there any questions for me um at all councillor alts thank you mayor guthrie i have questions

1:14:23for you but also for staff and i i recognize planning staff are not here but mrs jane homeziz and i

1:14:30was wondering if i could understand why planning staff are not in attendance and why the report

1:14:36was not written by planning staff at this point um through the mayor through the mayor to council

1:14:42alts um our planning staff um as with most most professional staff are guided by a code of conduct

1:14:49that do require them to go through certain processes and in order to be able to

1:14:55provide an opinion to council on how to move forward with an application

1:14:59in this case there's a there was this some studies and technical analysis that still

1:15:05needs to be done we don't have that yet there is also a we would also need an opinion on the

1:15:12conformity with the provincial planning statement that's that we don't have so the reason why you

1:15:18don't see planning staff here today we don't have that information so they would not be able to

1:15:24provide an opinion at this time what you do see though we're happy to see that with some of the

1:15:30recommendations though that that information will be coming as part of site plan um with the um to

1:15:37the satisfaction of of the chief planner just another concern um i'm wondering uh through you

1:15:43mr. mayor to staff i am as i'm listening i'm wondering because you're saying that these things

1:15:49still must come up whether this expedites the process much if at all through the through the

1:15:55mayor to council all i would say for the overall process from beginning to end um it probably

1:16:01doesn't um add that much um efficiency to it i would say though that i'm just in hearing what the

1:16:07mr um what the mayor was saying just in regards to um the requirements for the cmhc um that it

1:16:16does provide the the applicant with some certainty that council is in support of this of this application

1:16:25thank you and uh through you mr. mayor to you um one of the concerns that i have about this is

1:16:32very similar to council coran and it is very much um a question of due process i have no problems

1:16:39with the with what i've heard the pitch being made and uh to the to the owners of the property

1:16:45and to your tenants i'm truly sorry that uh that that unfortunately arson was committed

1:16:52in that there were victims of a dangerous and crime against property and also potentially against

1:16:58the lives as well which puts many many people in danger but the the real concern from me mayor

1:17:03guthrie actually is the process and uh so i i need to understand why as as you said there is a

1:17:13community benefit from this and it strikes me that anything that comes before our council

1:17:18through the normal process has community benefit how does this differ uh thanks counselor uh so

1:17:28two affordable housing units that will be um enforced through the zoning that would not happen

1:17:35without without this uh in front of us um i would say the pace is important here and i i will

1:17:44respectfully just say that i was told that it would probably save them anywhere between four

1:17:49to six months by being here today um speed is important especially for i felt a business that

1:17:56had their place burned to the ground and um and the fact that they're willing to do those extra units

1:18:03meeting our affordability policy which we unanimously passed and we haven't had any of those types of

1:18:10units come forward at all and so here we are with the opportunity for that

1:18:14and then finally i would just say the um the environmental aspect of it as well i think is

1:18:20is a huge benefit that i've heard this council for 10 years say that they're looking for exactly

1:18:24this type of project um and i just felt like it was worthy to try to bring it forward um and

1:18:31finally i would just say on the speed aspect of the benefit of that is they can finally get that

1:18:36application into cmhc if we do not give them the zoning for what they are required it might

1:18:41actually affect their application process and that's a parallel process to sort of speed so

1:18:47there's our internal processes that they still have to comply with but there's also the speed at

1:18:52cmhc as well so the sooner we can get going conch this the sooner they can get going on what they

1:18:57need to get done it also aligns with cmhc and their application process too so um i i feel it's

1:19:03warranted because it meets what i feel is not only my own internal sort of checkboxes of the

1:19:08things that we're looking for in this community but i felt like i was harnessing in a way um everyone

1:19:13else um what i continue to hear from counselors year over year over year over year of what they're

1:19:18looking for uh and that's exactly why i brought it for all of council to vote on um in this manner so

1:19:25all the public processes uh were were met um and so i would say that we actually are fulfilling the

1:19:32right processes it's just the speed part that i think is warranted and and thank you very much for

1:19:39that it's again one of those things where i think we're going to have to agree to disagree um i think

1:19:44regrettably the cmhc probably has some processes that are uh inappropriate uh when it comes to

1:19:50speeding up housing and certainly the federal and provincial governments are aware of some of these

1:19:54now because we recognize across canada we're not going to get our complement of affordable housing

1:20:00however i do have to say in my remarks that i cannot support this because i think at the

1:20:06city level and at the council level there are procedural concerns that really are part of due

1:20:11process that exist for a reason and as i said i think it's tragic and i think it's it's shameful

1:20:17and it's certainly criminal that arson has occurred but i think that we do need to be mindful

1:20:23of our processes because every development that comes to us has a community benefit

1:20:28and many of them have a cmhc application that is pending and my concern is that the argument will

1:20:35be made that many proposals can come before us that can forgive me for the term jump the queue

1:20:42as a consequence of asking for a mayoral order um and that creates a problem for us in my opinion

1:20:51so i will not be supporting this and just to respond as a point of personal privilege um they

1:20:57did not jump the queue by asking for a mayoral order no no let me finish i have the floor okay

1:21:02they did not come to me with that at all it was my suggestion to do that to help people in these

1:21:07circumstances that's why it's in front of us okay just want to make sure that that's very clear

1:21:11and just just point of personal privilege i i acknowledge that it is nothing against you

1:21:16it is my concern in the future that people will perceive it as a precedent and will make

1:21:22similar arguments that are either appropriate or inappropriate and then we have a conundrum

1:21:26for council okay but we're not here to debate the strong mayoral process here no thanks to you

1:21:32for doing your personal privilege yeah um who else wanted to speak to this if if necessary

1:21:39no okay i'll call i'll call the vote then oh sorry councillor kate and sorry go right ahead

1:21:45thank you through you um i think to you um i was just wondering about the public feedback

1:21:54like like counselors alt and um cron i also think it's a great project and i'm just kind

1:22:00of a little bit concerned about the process um is there any way just because this happened so

1:22:07quickly is there any other way to have more public feedback kind of put into the process

1:22:17thanks councillor there there isn't um all the public feedback process was followed

1:22:22so there's nothing about this process that has been changed at all the 20 day notice was done

1:22:28appropriately the notice in the paper or the media was done appropriately um i would say on

1:22:35further to that there was lots of sort of media coverage on on this as well um so everyone has

1:22:40known that this has come um there yeah so i i don't think that i don't think there's any reason

1:22:46to add anything more because everything has been met under the planning act for the public notification

1:22:52okay thank you okay thank you okay i will call the vote then is anyone against okay just councillor

1:23:03alt all right thank you very much your project approved or the zoning is approved and we wish

1:23:09you all the best invite us all to do the ribbon cutting at some point okay we want your business

1:23:14to succeed so thank you very much and thank you to council um okay we're going to continue to move

1:23:19along and the next one in front of us here hold on a second okay we're at the consent

1:23:34portion of the agenda and so that is i'm going to just yell them out here so paramedic services

1:23:41first quarter 2025 budget variance report again if anyone wants any of this just just put your hand

1:23:47up and yell at me here paramedic service response performance 2024 and performance plan recommendation

1:23:53for 2026 we also have the administrative penalty system for the automated speed enforcement and

1:24:00red light camera violations i have one question on that so just one nothing to further it but just

1:24:06one question um would some of you willing to just uh actually do you mind council if i just ask my one

1:24:13question on that and then we can maybe look to thank you so much i this is a takeaway because i feel

1:24:19very bad for forgetting to tell you in advance that i was going to ask this question i just wondered

1:24:24if as a takeaway you could get back to us is there a way of having the speed enforcement cameras

1:24:31when they are moved to new areas or new ones are added that for a time being it is only a warning

1:24:41that is sent out and not a ticket i have seen some communities start to talk about that and so they

1:24:49still get the the sort of scare in the mail the mail comes to the house and they open it up and they

1:24:54see the picture and they know they've done something wrong but instead of an automatic

1:24:59financial penalty it is like a warning and i just wondered if you could explore that for another time

1:25:07but maybe get back to council just with an answer on that it's just a that's all that's all i'm asking

1:25:13to you mr mayor so i will take that back i will just note though whenever we do put up

1:25:18any sort of automated speed cameras or the light red light cameras we do put

1:25:24there's a lot of notice periods in terms of signage and advertising so this yeah it's it's

1:25:31it shouldn't be a surprise that they're there but i'll certainly take back the ability to

1:25:35send out a warning as opposed to a ticket at the beginning and i'll let i'll let council know okay

1:25:40i appreciate that thank you council for letting me ask that question that was it on that so would

1:25:45someone be willing to move consent for me uh alt and uh richardson great and if there's nothing

1:25:51more i'll call the vote then is there anyone against no okay so that passes on consent thank you

1:26:00we also have the council consent we have the integrity commissioner report code of conduct

1:26:05complaint and that is it does anyone need that pulled can i call that one as a vote

1:26:12i would like to do that so thank you linda sorry councillor Busuttil and downer will move

1:26:17and second that is there anything further on that no i'll call the vote is there anyone against

1:26:26nope that passes unanimously thank you very much and now we are items for discussion we're

1:26:34going to kick things off with the gulf storm 2027 memorial cup bid then after that we'll move to

1:26:42the temporary accessible ramps and then we will go to the windham street north st george's square

1:26:52and then a quick one from council caron and then we're good so let's start with the gulf storm

1:27:01calling our deputy for this area calling clock bush is going to kick us off great

1:27:07head good evening everyone and thank you for the opportunity to make some introductory remarks

1:27:14tonight uh first i want to start by acknowledging the strong partnership relationship that we have

1:27:19with the gulf storm as our principal tenant at the sleam and center and as an existing

1:27:23strong economic driver for our community and specifically for the downtown with us this

1:27:28evening is matt newbie vice president business operations for the gulf storm and he's going

1:27:32to make a few introductory remarks in a moment i also want to acknowledge scott walker who is here

1:27:37from the gulf storm ownership group and also scott's waving and also just draw your attention to the

1:27:43fact that our new sleam and center manager is with us this evening ryan giles you can also wave

1:27:47and so ryan and scott are both in the gallery in support tonight as well um after our introductory

1:27:52remarks then mr newbie will be available for your questions and then we also of course have miss

1:27:58evans from culture and recreation and miss jaworski and mr good room from economic development

1:28:02and tourism and they're happy to also answer any questions you may have at this stage you are simply

1:28:07being asked to consider endorsing the support for the gulf storms bid for the 2027 memorial cup

1:28:13there is no cost to the city to participate in the bid and our financial commitment only occurs

1:28:19if the bid is successful in response to the questions we've received about the impact on the

1:28:24municipal accommodation tax we wanted to provide clarification that if gulf was selected for the

1:28:30memorial cup then there are budget conversations we can have about deferring capital items that

1:28:36were originally earmarked for the mat and so this would avoid us going into a deficit in the mat

1:28:42reserve so we wanted to provide you that reassurance reassurance for clarity there is an annual operating

1:28:48budget associated with the mat as well as a reserve fund for larger financial asks and capital

1:28:54projects and so while the memorial cup ask would draw on the reserve there would still be funding

1:29:00available through the annual operating budget for our current funding streams and that would still

1:29:05be applied to other events so again we just wanted to provide that reassurance that the potential for

1:29:10the memorial cup does not impact the availability of funding for other events or initiatives for

1:29:15example the bicentennial and then lastly we just wanted to really emphasize that we see great benefit

1:29:22in hosting the memorial cup in 2027 as part of our efforts to ensure a healthy and vibrant downtown

1:29:28throughout the construction projects and obviously you're considering that later this evening on the

1:29:32agenda we would be putting in place traffic management parking and transit plans to ensure that

1:29:38all events at Sleiman Center and Riverrun Center as well as elsewhere in the downtown

1:29:42can continue throughout this time period and we're going to be actually actively seeking any and all

1:29:47special events that we can to help bring people to our downtown to support restaurants and businesses

1:29:53and so I just want to close by saying that we see that the memorial cup would be a great opportunity

1:29:58to bring visitors to our downtown and with that I'll turn it over to Mr. Newby. Good evening Mayor

1:30:15Gowthrey and members of council as mentioned I'm Matt Newby and I'm the vice president of

1:30:19business operations for the Gwalt Storm. I've been with the team for over 26 years and I started right

1:30:24here uh exact virtually right here with a former memorial garden student 1999. Over the years we've

1:30:31run from a team that sometimes struggled to fill the arena into one of the CHL's model franchises

1:30:36and we're and we're proud of what we've become that way. Now we have a chance to give back to our

1:30:40fans in our city by bidding to host the 2020-2027 memorial cup. We believe this is likely our last

1:30:47and our best chance to bring the memorial cup to Gwalt with a capacity of under 5,000 the Sleiman

1:30:52Center faces increasing competition from newer larger venues across the province. Several have

1:30:58already opened in the past decade and more on the way. The window to host this prestigious event is

1:31:04closing but Gwalt is something truly special. We have a passionate fan base. We have a great

1:31:10downtown right outside the doors of the arena. We have a once in a generation opportunity to

1:31:15align the memorial cup with our city's bicentennial. It's a chance to showcase Gwalt on the national

1:31:20stage not just as a hockey town but as a vibrant welcoming community ready to celebrate 200 years

1:31:25of history. The memorial cup is more than just a hockey tournament. It's a national celebration

1:31:31of junior hockey, its community pride and its Canadian heritage. In 2027 it could be the centerpiece

1:31:37of Gwalt's 200th anniversary. A chance to celebrate our past, our present and future on a national stage.

1:31:45Yes, our arena is smaller than some but it's full almost every game. It's loud, it's electric and

1:31:50it's home to some of the most dedicated fans in the league. Our downtown is because it was brought

1:31:55up I know on the 10th. Our downtown is a huge part of our bid. The Sleiman Center is surrounded by

1:32:00everything visitors could and could want with unique restaurants, local businesses, direct

1:32:05go train access, direct VAC rail access for millions of people just steps away from the Sleiman Center,

1:32:11the Riverund Center and the nearby green space beside the Riverund Center are a perfect space for

1:32:17memorial cup events and we really we envision the transformation of the old Correx Street shops

1:32:23into what would become the Memorial Cup Entertainment District and really a vibrant hub for fans and

1:32:27families. We want this event to tell a story that's uniquely Gwalt in 2027 and that story is simply 200

1:32:36and nearly everything in our downtown is within 200 steps of the Sleiman Center

1:32:40or take 200 steps so to the spot where John Galt cut the first tree down to found Gwalt in 1827.

1:32:46With 20,000 visitors joining us from outside our region we can celebrate 200 years of Gwalt

1:32:51together. This is our chance to shine not just as a hockey town but as a welcoming dynamic city ready

1:32:57to host a national celebration. We're bidding to create something that brings people together, boosts

1:33:02our economy and leaves a lasting legacy. Again thank you for your time, thank you for allowing me

1:33:07allowing me the opportunity to speak on behalf of the team and I hope that together we can bring

1:33:10the 2020-2000, 27 Memorial Cup to Gwalt. Thanks a lot Matt. Maybe I could just have you to stay at

1:33:19that microphone if you don't mind. Just in case there's any any questions of my colleagues

1:33:26or myself as well I'll start with Councillor Galt please and then Koran.

1:33:31Thank you very much Mayor Guthrie and thank you Mr. Newberry for standing in front of us and presenting.

1:33:39As a person who attends probably 50% of the home games I look forward to winning hockey in Gwalt

1:33:48but I note within the report that there is a statement about financial implications. If there

1:33:54is any further profit this would go into the Sleiman Center. With all due respect that that

1:33:59somewhat sounds self-serving and I was wondering if you could comment on that because I'm going to

1:34:03ask staff about the the MAT tax as well and how how it's supposed to operate. There's some

1:34:10philosophical questions so that that's why I'm asking this. If you could comment on that that'd be great.

1:34:15Yeah of course and I think Dan I could speak to this as well but it's the intention being that it's

1:34:20if there were profits they would go back and Sleiman Center just to build just infrastructure

1:34:25allow the city our hope is that the subsidy that's currently in place the annual subsidy would be

1:34:30reduced but becoming it maybe that the you know you increase capacity maybe that you increase

1:34:36one of the big problems I know that they have in the Sleiman Center having to work with them for as

1:34:39long as I have is it's they just don't have the food prep area so I think the idea in terms of

1:34:44profits is that you redirect that into projects that allow it to become a little bit less reliant on

1:34:50that subsidy. And thank you. It also notes that the the the Gulf Storm is a for-profit organization

1:34:59and I'm with all due respect again I hope you can comment on that because I have to ask staff

1:35:04about the principles and philosophy of the MAT tax directly related to for-profit organization.

1:35:10We are a for-profit organization the intent with this bid is it's a not-profit bid so I do

1:35:15understand what you're saying if that answers your question. So that goes back to the profits

1:35:19being redirected to the Sleiman Center. Again it's a ton of work for us and probably thousands of

1:35:24hours volunteers in our time and for a zero zero dollar event so I can certainly with that like

1:35:31I think that's the best way to explain why we're doing it. And I can respect that because

1:35:36I worked on the grand slam a bit and I can tell you that you're quite correct it's a lot of work.

1:35:40Now if you could just expand a bit on the last best chance for the Memorial Cup what's happening

1:35:50what's the vibe in Ontario that's leading to this challenge I understand it's the size of

1:35:56arenas but give me more details. Yeah it's the size of the arena it's also again for me it's

1:36:02personally I parked at the Neve Street lot for years and years and years I kept walking by that

1:36:06sign walking by that sign and everything didn't align because until COVID the Memorial Cups didn't

1:36:10line up to where it came we knew that it was going to be coming to the OHL for this cycle for 2027.

1:36:16In terms so without that I think if we went in and tried to bid in a competitive bid situation

1:36:21with our building and the size of our building it would be a no win situation for us and that's

1:36:26why I talk about that. As far as around the province Kingston's a building that's bigger

1:36:31that's it would a great community that's that's never hosted the Memorial Cup.

1:36:34Niagara's at St. Catharines is another new building that's never hosted the Memorial Cup larger building

1:36:39Oshawa larger building never hosted the Memorial Cup so there's a number of teams that have already

1:36:43got buildings that if we went dollar for dollar in a competitive bid we just wouldn't measure up.

1:36:48That doesn't also speak to the fact that Sudbury has a new arena coming Ottawa has a new arena coming

1:36:54Randford has a new arena coming all of which are bigger than ours so you start to stack up those

1:36:58different you look at once every three years with the cycle which is tough on its own and then

1:37:02you think even if they're all 20 teams bid which there just a lot of teams aren't in position to

1:37:06do so because the size of their buildings I think when you start to look at the teams that have the

1:37:11buildings that haven't had a Memorial Cup the ones that are getting buildings that haven't had a

1:37:15Memorial Cup I think it puts us at the end of a long line. Okay and thank you for that now you

1:37:20mentioned a number of cities where they haven't had the Memorial Cup but these cities have bid upon

1:37:25it and been unsuccessful. Oshawa has a new building they bid upon it they received it for the during

1:37:31and it was cancelled during COVID Kingston has bid and just didn't have the team in the eyes of this

1:37:37the and in a lot of cases the business model as well and again if you spoke to me 15 16 years ago

1:37:43it might have been a tough case for us to do that from business standpoint. I think we're looked at

1:37:48as and held up from the league standpoint not just us as a team but our relationship with the city

1:37:52and how we've managed to it's not just there's a lot of cities that we go and a lot of teams when

1:37:56we go to our meetings and it's a fight over this pie who gets what slice of the pie. I think the

1:38:01relationship we've had that's worked really well is that it's we've working together with the city

1:38:05and Rich Pryor and and you know moving forward with Dana and Colleen it's been let's grow the pie

1:38:12let's make it so you're making more on concessions you're making more off license fees you're making

1:38:15more on there and we couldn't have done that and that's we're able to kind of reinvest and succeed

1:38:21and and so I think that's part of why it's it's it's worked and where like I said Kingston's they've

1:38:27struggled that way to fill the building. Oshawa is probably wouldn't bid they're getting a 40 million

1:38:32dollar I believe infrastructure or redevelopment grant for the building to do some renovations so

1:38:38I think they would I suspect they would hold off until then. I'm trying to think of a Niagara has

1:38:43just been if you've been if you go to half the games you probably know about the OHL Niagara has

1:38:48their own issues and I would let the people of Niagara kind of speak to that but from a business

1:38:53from a business standpoint again and I think that's a big issue so I think some of it is because

1:38:57where we are now in terms of a business and as you know with the fan following that we've built

1:39:01and we're very we've worked our butts off to do so and very proud of what we have built within this

1:39:06community a mid-sized market that I think we stack up against and I'm proud to do it stack measure

1:39:11stack up against most of the communities in our league that are a lot bigger than ours but I think

1:39:16that's the big reason why some of the ones that have the new buildings they haven't been

1:39:20lucky enough I guess to be able to bid successfully to bring it there.

1:39:23And thank you very much for standing up in front of us today and presenting I appreciate that and

1:39:28let's hope that the storm has as good a season as the blue jays are having right now. That would be

1:39:32fantastic. Thanks and I can I can confirm that councillor Alton's a big well storm fan just so

1:39:40you know okay take my word for it. Yeah yeah so uh councillor, councillor Caron please over to you.

1:39:50Thanks and I echo and probably haven't been to as many games as Bill Olt admittedly that come from

1:39:55a hockey family and uh Hall of Famers in the family uh so Ghost Storm. One of the things that you

1:40:03probably if you watched the last meeting a council that I raised was that you know when we bring a

1:40:08big event it's a national event it's a national spotlight to Guelph we want to we want to look

1:40:13our best we want to wear our finest clothes. Our downtown will not be wearing its finest clothes

1:40:20during the memorial cup it'll all be ripped up and I just wondered how you're going to manage that in

1:40:26any bid how you're going to manage it if it's successful. I am worried that that actually

1:40:32it won't show us in our best light and so I'm hesitant to support for that reason not because

1:40:38I'm not a huge supporter of the Ghost Storm. If I recall in the last meeting you asked if we would

1:40:44disclose that as well I think if that would be part of it. The CHL president was born in Guelph

1:40:53was raised in Guelph he currently lives in Guelph so he'll know full well what Guelph will be going

1:40:57through at that moment so there's even if we wanted to hide it I can assure you we couldn't.

1:41:02That being said as we're going through our playoff drive at any point I mean generally we'll

1:41:07average 4,700 fans so it's we'll learn to work through it I do fully understand in terms of

1:41:13anytime you watch the national broadcast you see those great shots where they pull out and it's

1:41:18and it would be you know the the speed river or whatever they're showing or the river on center

1:41:22it's tough when you know that they're not going to show that street because of what it's going through

1:41:26but I think that's just something we have to work through and again we'll learn as a team

1:41:31we'll learn I think with our partners at the at the city and specifically the Sleeman Center

1:41:36how to and our fans even kind of going through that year it'll be 27 26 27 our fans will be

1:41:41coming you know we expect to let you know have 4,500 fans a game or whatever learning to work

1:41:46through that and again it's part of being a community and making the best of a bad situation

1:41:50I think but again having said that I do fully respect that it'll be a real kick in the pants

1:41:56when you're when you're seeing those great shots on TSN and it's and they can't show the downtown

1:42:00they can't show the front of old Cruick Street Mall because of what's going through there but I

1:42:04don't think it's unique to go off that there's infrastructure that needs to be done it's just

1:42:09no doubt it's bad timing but I think without this tie into the 200s and to what I said to

1:42:14council to mention to councillor all I don't know that there's a better time to do it or maybe another

1:42:18time yeah I certainly want our 200th to be you know a grand spectacle and draw that national

1:42:26attention um you probably if you listened to the last meeting you also know that I raised

1:42:30concern about hotel rooms and whether we have the capacity whether there'll be spill over to other

1:42:35municipalities and whether those other municipalities are are putting anything in in in the bucket to

1:42:44bring it to Guelph if they are economically benefiting from Guelph's successful bid.

1:42:52From our end we haven't made any calls to any other senators so we're working with a couple

1:42:56different hoteliers and working with with tourism. We'll fill every room in Guelph and then if that's

1:43:01not enough then we'll look to others but at this point we're not making those calls. Our

1:43:06same priority is what you're saying it's let's make sure Guelph is completely full if there's

1:43:11a spill over then we'll make those calls but at this point we're with the numbers we have and with

1:43:15the calls we're making and the due diligence we're working through it would be to make sure

1:43:19we're filling with Guelph. On the fallback I think in that case looking 25 minutes away you'd get to

1:43:24the ones in Cambridge it might be a cross-separate when you when you get to it but our hope is that

1:43:29yes and knowing that it's high numbers and knowing that it probably doesn't add up the way we'd want

1:43:34it you start to get into other different types of accommodation potentially to fill some of that gap

1:43:40but yeah our priority would be to fill the ones in Guelph those are the calls we're making now

1:43:44those are the numbers we're crunching now after that the spillover we'll look to go elsewhere if

1:43:49need be but we hope that it doesn't. Thank you Councillor Caron. Anything for this delegate at all?

1:44:00Yes Councillor Caron. Yes thank you through you Mr. Mayor to the delegate. My question is so if we're

1:44:08successful with the bid well any of the investment provided longer-term benefit to the community.

1:44:14I know you mentioned like the food prep area I'm just curious about you know hosting an event of

1:44:19this scale I think is new to Guelph and with that will come some infrastructure upgrades to what we

1:44:26have so will that also prime us potentially for doing other I mean not the memorial cap again maybe

1:44:31for a long time but for similar type events? Yeah that would certainly be the hope if there were

1:44:37profits. Part of the CHL the bid process they do require legacy some legacy left behind in our case

1:44:44I think the first thing that comes to mind is really like a first skate thing that's not an

1:44:48infrastructure thing that's not a thing that's going to bring people into into the building and

1:44:53other events in the building but I think it's an opportunity for especially in diverse communities

1:44:57to to get people on skates once and it might be working with coaching but it's I think our hope is

1:45:02that if there's legacy that comes from it it's funding to set up a program like that with the

1:45:06profits PCS and that would be where you'd start whether it's improving kitchen stuff and that's

1:45:11discussions with with Dana and you know managing that CRA if it's if and when it's set up to how

1:45:16it's best spent to improve the the I guess just to improve the Seaman Center for lack of a better

1:45:23term and its ability to host these events because they're certainly out there. Thank you. Great thank

1:45:33you. There's no further questions so thank you very much. We appreciate you coming down. I appreciate

1:45:40the opportunity. So back to us then everybody would someone be willing to move the motion

1:45:48for the recommendations? Gibson and Alt please thank you and is there anything further on this?

1:45:56Sure. Councillor Allt. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. I'm happy to move the motion

1:46:03because I think that we're at the early stages on this but there are questions that I do have

1:46:07about the MAT fund and economic social and other forms of development. So my big concern is the

1:46:16impact of one big withdrawal now you had mentioned that there would be the deferral of capital items

1:46:22and I was wondering if we could please expand on that because I have to admit that I think in some

1:46:27senses the intent of the MAT was to to to allow us to fund many many different things over time and

1:46:37I think that in some senses we're departing from that with this. Through the Mayor to Councillor

1:46:48Ault. So as we're as we're taking a look and and as Deputy CAO Clark Bush indicated you know we

1:46:56will have more discussions about this if if the bid is successful too. So staff have taken this way

1:47:03and so as we indicated in the report you know we are working on a citywide wayfinding strategy

1:47:09right now in the current year and with plans in 2026 to maybe do a first phase implementation of a

1:47:17tourism oriented destination directional gateways those kinds of things. If we are successful in the

1:47:22bid then we push that out a few years but it doesn't mean the wayfinding strategy is an action

1:47:27that sort of thing because it is citywide. You know there are other you know several of the capital

1:47:35like future capital requests might come through might might be deferred but for the most part like

1:47:42that's the big one that we would be looking to defer and then maybe altering some like operational

1:47:48plans to contribute more to the reserve so that we we don't go into a deficit and then

1:47:55after 2027 that's when we would see those capital projects hopefully come back online.

1:48:01Thank you just with regards to that one of the big event is exciting there's no doubt in my mind

1:48:09but also the big event carries with it in some senses a bit of a hangover afterward

1:48:14and that would be a concern for me with the the various hotels that are essentially responsible

1:48:21for funding the MAT. Are we aware of any opposition from any of the the well the businesses right now

1:48:33that would say well this is this is a one-shot deal but it's not going to long term provide us

1:48:39with any benefit are we aware of any of that right now? Through the mayor to Councillor Halt

1:48:46not formally no. Will we be investigating it just so that we've got a feel from those that are

1:48:52contributing to the MAT? Through the Mayor to Councillor Halt not at this time. Okay thanks

1:49:01now I think that the storm are completely within their rights in the MAT to ask for this but I was

1:49:07wondering if you could outline the MAT principles and objectives especially as they might relate to

1:49:12for-profit organizations? Through the Mayor to Councillor Halt so so first I'll address the

1:49:21like the MAT policy and what the MAT reserve is for so I will say this this event aligns which

1:49:28is why the staff recommendation is what it is so the MAT operating budget like through our funding

1:49:34stream programs like that's really for you know those smaller asks the under 25 000 the intention

1:49:40of the reserve was to be able to come to council with anything over that ask for things like sport

1:49:46event conference attraction that sort of thing and and other projects of course as well in that

1:49:51infrastructure space you know it is it is a much larger ask but it is still in alignment with the

1:50:00MAT. When it comes to the for-profit you know that that was in there for for transparency but I

1:50:08think just echoing what our our friends from the storm indicated is the event itself is operating as

1:50:16a not-for-profit and and maybe we can speak a little bit more to the Sleiman reserve and that

1:50:22sort of thing but it's a it's community impact it's economic impact and and so there there is

1:50:30there is a lot of benefit and we only have one OHL team right so that's also a piece of this it's

1:50:38you know there there wouldn't be other bidders on the memorial cup for Guelph which I think helps

1:50:44and I'm going to ask a really out there question but it's a very serious one as well

1:50:49the FIFA World Cup is coming to Toronto are we expecting any economic benefit from that and is

1:50:55provision in the MAT and it's a serious question because when the Olympics were bid for Guelph we

1:51:00looked at Guelph Lake as hosting the rowing so it's it's not that far-fetched. Through the

1:51:06Merida Council our alt I am I am chatting with colleagues in in Toronto and around the corridor

1:51:14we don't we don't have economic impact numbers for surrounding communities do I think there

1:51:19will be spillover yes you know there we have a go line into Toronto we have hotels here but

1:51:36oh I think you got cut off that I think she was done speaking yeah yeah yeah you're good

1:51:46James did you want to jump in go ahead just really quickly in terms of the hoteliers we are still

1:51:52going to have as Mr. Worski said we're still going to have the smaller funding stream programs that

1:51:58we have every year including one program where we can invest up to $25,000 in an event and keep in

1:52:05mind too that the Chamber of Commerce splits this funding with us as well so there are funds

1:52:13you know in the chambers arena where we could you know potentially partner on projects going

1:52:19forward anything else from anyone yeah sorry Councillor Cate sorry about that Councillor Cate

1:52:29thanks sorry through you Mr. Mayor are you taking comments now or is it just questions

1:52:33no you can do both let's go ahead okay thank you through you I really feel strongly that the

1:52:39Wayfinding project is an accessibility piece and for the reasons that we have mentioned before

1:52:46in that not putting all of our eggs in one basket and if it has to be kind of refunded out of a

1:52:49capital project like that then I do think it's an important project I wish them all the best

1:52:55but I just can't support it at this time

1:52:58the problem thank you Councillor okay so I looks like I can call the vote on this one

1:53:05it's been moved and seconded and all just five seconds of comments from me

1:53:09I think this is great I really would love to see this be successful and if council agrees

1:53:16I will do everything I possibly can to make this the best the best for our city and for

1:53:23the Guelph storm and yeah I just I really want to put our best foot forward so hopefully if

1:53:29council agrees here we'll we'll get that bid and I didn't know that the guy lived in the city so

1:53:35tell me where he lives uncle knock on his door all right all right so with that I will call

1:53:41the vote is anyone against okay Koran and Caten okay so that passes so thank you very much

1:53:52thank you and all the best moving right along to temporary accessible ramps in the city of Guelph

1:54:00and just as a heads up everyone will do this one and then I'm going to take a break after that okay

1:54:05so I just want to acknowledge that we have a couple delegations here but

1:54:12um as is normal uh process we had the motions that were referred from committee fly to today

1:54:21to the council agenda but councillor quassan who was not here uh unfortunately for the committee

1:54:27has amended and brought forward something a little bit different so you're kind of seeing

1:54:31everything on the agenda here but councillor quassan would uh will be speaking um to this as

1:54:37well so before I call off the delegates I just think it's appropriate for councillor quassan is

1:54:44sort of the originator um of this motion and this idea maybe just to speak to it for a moment

1:54:50to get the foundation out there what we're actually speaking about then I can go to the

1:54:54delegations and then come back to us okay sorry I didn't give you a heads up on that but hope

1:54:58that's okay sure yeah that's fine I've prepared a couple of things um and I just would also like

1:55:02to thank you and my colleagues for referring I wasn't able to attend last minute and so thank you

1:55:08for sending it forward to this one so that I could speak a little bit to it um and and also I just

1:55:14wanted to say thank you mr. mayor for your help um in getting this idea forward um and to the delegates

1:55:20as well and everyone who wrote to me to express their support uh this work has brought me closer

1:55:25and uh to the broader accessibility landscape in our city and I've had so many conversations and

1:55:30made connections that have deepened my understanding of the barriers that so many people face when

1:55:35trying to access spaces every day so I just thank you to everyone who has reached out to me or had

1:55:41a conversation with me or sent me an email um and and thank you Cindy we have spoke several times

1:55:47and say with James so thank you for that I really appreciate um you taking the time for for this

1:55:53I want to acknowledge that staff didn't um support my original motions which asked them to explore a

1:55:58pilot program with the stop gap foundation which is an initiative that provides affordable portable

1:56:04ramps for uh spaces uh in the city that are inaccessible if they have one single step um I brought

1:56:11forward this these motions because I believe that there is a role for the city to play in supporting

1:56:16these types of accessibility improvements and in fact many cities do uh support these types of

1:56:21of projects um often small businesses lack the resources and time to meaningfully address

1:56:28accessibility and many don't know where to start I've heard from residents that more ramps could

1:56:33make a big difference in where they can go and what they can participate in in Guelph especially in

1:56:40our downtown and older areas uh there are many storefronts that are still physically inaccessible

1:56:45due to that one step and of course there's a few that have more than just one step and higher single

1:56:50steps um that one step is a barrier for people using wheelchairs walkers canes crutches and strollers

1:56:58um because staff and several counselors weren't supportive of the original proposal I don't want

1:57:03to spend too much more time defending it here instead I'd like to offer a revised approach

1:57:09with two emotions and they're in our agenda package I'm not I hope that you've had a chance

1:57:13to look at them so there's two and I'll just read them one that council endorsed a community led

1:57:18approach to increasing the accessibility of businesses in Guelph with initiatives such as the

1:57:23stopgap foundation and two that the downtown Guelph business association and the chamber of

1:57:28commerce be encouraged to raise awareness about these initiatives and grant opportunities

1:57:33with Guelph businesses to enhance accessibility for all um and and just for your knowledge as well

1:57:39my next step is going to be to bring this to the dgba and to propose a community led project um and

1:57:46to take it and and hopefully there's some community members who will support me and I think there

1:57:50already are there's a number of folks who have said that they would be up for for this as well as

1:57:55some of my council colleagues so I just wanted to say thank you for your consideration and

1:58:00reconsideration of of these uh new motions great thanks councillor costum appreciate that and and

1:58:08and that context for what we're actually going to be discussing here today and so with that context

1:58:13thank you so much for the delegations for waiting if you would like to come up the first one

1:58:21is going to be James uh no no walk please and then uh Cindy McLean I see Cindy here as well

1:58:28so you're in the wings there and come on down James whenever you're ready go right ahead

1:58:47and uh it's uh five minutes total and you'll hear the the wonderful chime at four minutes and

1:58:53thirty seconds as the as the warning okay so thank you very much and over to you whenever you're ready

1:59:00okay dear councillors mayor Guthrie city staff and fellow citizens thank you for having me I was

1:59:16encouraged to see some of the changes in the alternate motion however I still think it should

1:59:21be revised and retabled in the fall in its current form the motion still does not address the main

1:59:26concerns I raised on July 8th namely it does not situate these temporary stopgap measures in relation

1:59:33to a broader push for permanent accessibility it does not and it does not name landlords as

1:59:39responsible parties I think it is important to establish this context in the motion doing so now

1:59:45will help the groups mentioned therein avoid the pitfalls inherent to temporary fixes and support

1:59:51them in realizing the ultimate goal of the stopgap stopgap program permanent accessibility

1:59:58consider this photograph taken on July 16th it shows the raised entrance to a retail building

2:00:05in Guelph with a stopgap ramp in front of the door the condition of the paint and the plywood

2:00:10suggests the ramp was part of the 2015 pilot project what have 10 years of apparent regular

2:00:16use led to what awareness has been raised observe the near farcical litany of obstacles which make

2:00:24the ramp itself inaccessible you need a ramp to get to the ramp let's be generous though for a

2:00:32minute and imagine that another ramp is in fact waiting inside to be brought out when needed

2:00:38how is a wheelchair user going to let someone know they want in you can't knock the door is out of

2:00:44reach there is no doorbell no number to call no sticker no intercom no automatic door opener

2:00:51no sign evidently the awareness raising impacts of this particular ramp have been

2:00:58to put it mildly limited this is disappointing because so much care and organizing by people

2:01:05who are here today went into these stopgap ramps which were always meant to raise awareness about

2:01:11the need for permanent accessibility for this to happen however something needs to change this time

2:01:19these temporary measures which i support need to be accompanied by a push for permanent solutions

2:01:25aimed at the people with the means and the obligation to pay for them landlords this issue

2:01:32would ideally i know be remedied by provincial policies that said the city occasionally steps

2:01:37in when these policies fall short for example council is presently considering bylaws to discourage

2:01:44and even to punish illegal renovations by residential landlords in theory the landlord

2:01:49tenant act should protect tenants but in practice it isn't working so the city is preparing to

2:01:54intervene this is good the present issue is similar provincial laws the aod a and the ohhcr

2:02:02are supposed to prevent discrimination but they are not working well enough i therefore think that

2:02:08the city should step in and examine what existing municipal powers might be creatively leveraged

2:02:13to pressure commercial landlords to make their buildings permanently accessible now

2:02:19i am not alone in thinking that temporary ramps work best in conjunction with creative uses of

2:02:25municipal powers indeed the founder of stopgap luke anderson just this month proposed an amendment

2:02:32that is going before toronto city council tomorrow thanks to luke that motion now includes a request

2:02:39that the city advocate for changes to the building code particularly to the distinction

2:02:43between extensive and minor renovations and there are other examples in 2016 a city of

2:02:50san francisco ordinance empowered the city to quote push property owners to remodel the front

2:02:55entrances of businesses that are inaccessible end quote these examples show that other advocates

2:03:01for accessibility and their municipal counterparts near and far are thinking along similar lines

2:03:08that temporary ramps need to be accompanied by creative uses of municipal powers in order to

2:03:13push landlords to provide permanent accessibility now with these examples in mind i humbly request

2:03:20that the mover add to the motion a commitment to explore the feasibility of similar proactive

2:03:25approaches approaches here in guelph i realize that the specifics of this will take time to formulate

2:03:32i therefore ask that you please refer the present motion back to staff and retable or revised version

2:03:36in september without proper contexts these temporary ramps will be less effective the motion

2:03:44should not endorse a temporary fix with also endorsing the need to develop innovative ways

2:03:50to push landlords to provide permanent accessibility solutions now lest you get more of this thank you

2:03:57i welcome your questions and comments i've come prepared to respond and thank you very much for

2:04:03coming again and for your for your presentation as well and is there any follow-up question

2:04:09alt and kate thanks america three and to the delegate james thanks once again for for presenting

2:04:19to us as i was listening to you one of the things that struck me was that you're focusing upon what

2:04:27is perceived to be a temporary adaptation until something permanent comes along if we were in

2:04:35guelph however it's done whether it's by the community or by the city to reconstitute the the

2:04:42ramp program would you be suggesting that we put a time limitation on this so that it not become a

2:04:51permanent solution and that we are we move with certain speed whatever that might be to the permanence

2:04:59that's one idea i i think you all are more familiar with you know what midst municipal powers exist

2:05:06and my request is that a commitment made be made to explore the feasibility of using some municipal

2:05:13powers maybe like the one you're suggesting to put some pressure on this because right now it

2:05:18functions as a pressure release valve and there's no commensurate pressure coming down to make permanent

2:05:23change thank you very much i actually don't know what authority we have to do this or whether it is

2:05:29provincial sure thanks for the question thank you thank you councillor Allt got to katin please

2:05:36thank you three mr mayor um i just texting back and forth with uh councillor claus and

2:05:44i agree with what you're saying mr noak and i was just wondering would something

2:05:49tagged on to the end of the first motion like and permanent solutions be amenable to what you're

2:05:55discussing because i think that uh the spirit of this is not to only look at the stop gaps it was

2:06:02suggestions like stop gaps but also if we added in and permanent solutions would would that give you

2:06:10the the clarification that you're needing that it wouldn't just be looking at the temporary options

2:06:18it would be better i would like to see a commensurate endorsement to use the language of the motion

2:06:24to explore the feasibility of similar of the city exploring the feasibility of similar proactive

2:06:31motions here in guelph other cities have said or have identified municipal creative uses of

2:06:41municipal powers as a potential way to bring about permanent change faster that's what i would

2:06:47like to see the just to just to endorse the commitment to explore the feasibility okay for

2:06:54for right now the suggestion i'm offering up because i understand what you're saying in terms of the

2:07:01municipality but this is i would just be doing this for purely with the the chamber and the dgba

2:07:07as a side rather than it being municipal to be clear it's better it's not what i'm asking for

2:07:14i it's better though than nothing okay thank you very much thank thank you councillor Caton

2:07:21seeing nothing further uh thank you very much and thank you for just raising awareness around

2:07:28the toronto motion that might be coming forward tomorrow oftentimes when toronto especially

2:07:33does motions and if it passes it usually gets actually forwarded to like associations and other

2:07:38municipalities and stuff like that so i think maybe not just myself but many of us will maybe

2:07:43look be looking to see what happens with that so thank you for bringing that up thank you all

2:07:48and finally we have uh c is coming forward i think welcome again cindy good to see you thank you

2:08:23for coming and whenever you're ready the time will start whenever you're ready okay thank you

2:08:38that's great thank you hi everybody hi mr mayor counselors city staff and fellow citizens

2:08:47my name's cindy mclean i'm i'm going to start because i have a terrible feeling i'm going to

2:08:51run out of time i'm thanking councillor Klassen for revisiting this temporary

2:08:58ramp initiative um and her interest and desire to make the community more accessible and more

2:09:05inclusive i um have to admit i am the culprit who is responsible for the 2015 ramp project

2:09:14so whether you think it's a good thing or a bad thing i take responsibility for it um

2:09:20i want to give you a little bit of context i have listened to some of the discussion i thought that

2:09:26i could bring some accurate historical um information and also give you some ideas on lessons learned

2:09:35back in 2015 myself and a group of friends all who face mobility challenges formed a very grassroots

2:09:43organization called gulf accessibility project acronym gap and our intention was to address gaps

2:09:51that we saw in accessibility within the city and the biggest one we saw was access to buildings

2:10:01and businesses particularly that had steps and we noticed that nobody seemed to take responsibility

2:10:09for it so we had this aod a and at that point we were 10 years into it we had landlords as james has

2:10:17very appropriately identified we'd had business or business owners and we had the city and what

2:10:24was happening was nothing and um it was frustrating and so we decided to take it upon ourselves so

2:10:30i knew luke from stopgap reached out to him found a construction company that wanted to do a very

2:10:39good deed and they committed all the materials and all the construction for 40 ramps which is

2:10:46approximately 10 to 12 000 dollars they do not to this day want to be named um the other thing that

2:10:55we did um i traveled to stratford which was the city that had most recently implemented a stopgap

2:11:02program and learned about what they were doing so they had a program that was approved by council

2:11:08and it facilitated through their accessibility advisory committee i approached our city accessibility

2:11:15services hoping to replicate the same process i was told they were not interested i approached

2:11:22the downtown guelph business association and i found a very willing and enthusiastic partner

2:11:28and so over a month we literally went door to door driving all over the city not limited to

2:11:36downtown to try to find businesses that would be interested we were dealing predominantly with

2:11:43business owners um and i would say the bulk of people were quite interested so very quickly

2:11:52we created an inventory we um had to do very extensive measurements so it's not an easy process

2:11:59there's a lot of time consuming effort i give full credit to my father um he was my partner in crime

2:12:06and um businesses were able to choose from four different color ramps so there was some standard

2:12:13as well um and we knew that we had to come up with signage because just in even in the process

2:12:19of trying to recruit businesses i literally was banging on doors and windows because of course

2:12:26i couldn't get in so we created signage we created the ramps and we created an instruction package

2:12:33on how to best use it the great part about it we felt at the time was it was an opening

2:12:41to start to have conversations around accessibility and it was an opportunity to also talk to

2:12:47businesses about how they could create interior spaces that were more inviting and to be truthful

2:12:55had not personal things happened to me and a change of leadership at at the downtown gulf

2:13:02business association megan marty who is who i'm talking about we probably would have continued

2:13:07to do some amazing accessibility um initiatives but things happen but unfortunately here we are

2:13:15yet another 10 years later and we're in the exact same boat so lessons learned the stopgap's not

2:13:21going to work for everybody we know that we need to have different alternatives funding is a major

2:13:27issue because most for-profit organizations are not eligible for a lot of granting um and we need

2:13:35leadership and so i am running out of time so i respectfully ask you to consider a community-led

2:13:43city-supported project wow right on the top of the top thank you very much thank you uh to uh

2:13:52clausen and then to boost it till please i'm gonna move a bit because i can't see this side of the

2:13:59room if that's okay thank you thank you and through you sir mr. mayor to um to the delegate

2:14:06cindy thank you first of all thank you so much for spending so much time on the phone with me in the

2:14:11the past a while and i know that we we're we're continuing our conversation later this week so

2:14:16i'm i'm excited to keep keep working with you um my question is is um you were talking about lessons

2:14:22learned and i'm not sure if you were able to finish those so i would like to ask you know could you

2:14:28finish your thoughts with regard to the lessons learned yeah we i mean i think the biggest thing

2:14:33is there needs to be real leadership and it needs to have continuity and i think that unfortunately

2:14:39if there was a lesson learned things happen with people whether they be at a personal level or within

2:14:45organizations that have them move on and so i think it needs to be embedded in the values of the city

2:14:53have the consistency of knowing that this accessibility is a priority of the city

2:15:00and that it should be seen as a leader throughout the community um i think the other thing i will

2:15:07just say is that this problem is not going to get easier it's going to get harder we have an aging

2:15:11population um by the city's own data by 2031 you know 30 percent of our population will be 55 years

2:15:20or older and we know that 25 percent of the population um greater than 65 live with mobility

2:15:28disabilities so we're trying to build a downtown that is vibrant and inclusive and yet it doesn't

2:15:37align with the needs of people with any type of mobility issue thank you thank you thank you

2:15:46and pucitil yes thank you to the delegate just a quick question you ended your presentation

2:15:53with community led city supported and can you kind of reflect back for me what does city

2:15:59supported look like for you well i think that comes back to you i mean i i read the report

2:16:06from the accessibility services and i read the report report from economic development

2:16:11and tourism and recognize that there are you know limitations in people's work volume but i

2:16:19think fundamentally it needs to be um seen as being important to the city and that it has

2:16:28continuity so that it won't be a one-off project that then we never hear again and and then the

2:16:36ramps disintegrate and you know we you know in in fairness to the picture that james showed

2:16:43that wasn't an original site that was given that ramp so these ramps have floated around

2:16:51downtown um as businesses have come in and gone out so i just think we need continuity we need

2:16:57this to be a priority we you know the aod had on target ontario to be fully accessible by this year

2:17:07right um but we're not we're not close to that and as i said i i just think the problem's going

2:17:13to get harder and and it's going to become more important and without the leadership of the city

2:17:20behind it i just worry that this will be another incident where it's a great moment and then

2:17:31we need to have you know repeat repeat repeat and and and i obviously all along the stop gap

2:17:39was a stop gap right it was never intended to be a permanent solution it was it was the means to get

2:17:48to another stage and and i do worry that we we aren't thinking enough about the next stage

2:17:55the important stage thank you and i would agree about the permanence just to be very clear so

2:18:01i'm gonna extract this from what you've shared is that you believe that this should be city

2:18:07resourced city staffed is that kind of is that fair yes yes actually that is fair yeah now it

2:18:16doesn't mean that there can't be some creativity built in there again there's there's people like

2:18:20myself i'm sure i don't want to talk for james but i'm sure james is uh you know excited as well

2:18:26about being a supporter so i think you're gonna find a lot of community um interest but in the end

2:18:34we do need it to be anchored and i think the city is the anchor thank you great thank you um seeing

2:18:45nothing further cindy thank you very much thank you again you too um so it's back to us council now

2:18:54what i would like us to do uh if it's okay with my colleagues is to to move and second the

2:19:02the referral that came from committee and then we can defeat that okay just so just so that only

2:19:10that gets tabled is is what the new motions are from councillor quassan okay okay i i see hands up in

2:19:20the air i'm so i've conferred with clerk the clerk would rather that we follow this process

2:19:30so that it's referred here and then we defeat it and move on um clerk that was the advice given

2:19:42uh through you mr marita council and to yourself quite frankly i either or you you can go either way

2:19:48i mean what we wanted to do is make sure that the motions were constituted on the agenda

2:19:52so that there was a referral from committee so it was clear from a history standpoint that they

2:19:56landed on the agenda tonight for council but if you wanted to move those and defeat them

2:20:01let's presume that council will do that alternatively you can simply move the revised motions that came

2:20:06from from councillor i would rather that so sorry everybody if i said that the wrong way my apologies

2:20:15can move a motion and defeat me if you want whatever you want to um so i will uh let's just

2:20:22say that we're good with that okay the regular ones that got referred we're just not going to touch

2:20:26them we're good with that okay uh councillor quassan i would imagine you would like to move

2:20:31your motions at least to get them on the floor and want to go to the screen does somebody on the

2:20:36screen want to want to look to second it coran thank you okay um and the first thing i think i'm

2:20:48going to look at is maybe councillor Caton uh for an amendment please go ahead councillor Caton

2:20:54thank you i have a hopefully friendly amendment uh to add

2:20:58and permanent solutions to the end of the sentence on number one okay a gogler gogler's got that for

2:21:06a seconder thank you so we'll just uh we'll let that throw itself up onto the screen okay there you go

2:21:22those those are the words added there at the end and permanent solutions i believe i could call a

2:21:27vote on that i'm seeing lots of heads nod anyone against that amendment nobody perfect so that's

2:21:34unanimous thank you back to the main motions now as amended i saw coran's hand go up but was that

2:21:42maybe just a second earlier lian yeah thank you and so councillor gogler uh thank you through

2:21:49your worship i think what i heard from the delegates is that they're looking for some

2:21:53substantial support from the city so i was wondering i think the original um intent from

2:22:00councillor Klassen included a line to allocate some funding to this so i was wondering if we

2:22:06revisit that conversation and and how my council colleagues would feel about it uh so i'll work

2:22:12to pull that up to add another amendment to look for some funding to be included in this um

2:22:19which so i just wanted to well and and just yeah um do you mind council if i just jump in

2:22:34mr you some thoughts just on that thank you so in my view and you guys know you guys know i'm not

2:22:42like trying to say no okay but if we're going to allow the community even a moment to grab on to this

2:22:50and do something with it i would much rather the our direction for the community to lead this

2:22:56to them to at least have the chance to to wrap their arms around it and then we can between now

2:23:03and the end of the year um we can hear back from the dgpa or hear back from the chamber or hear back

2:23:10from another contractor in the city who wants to remain nameless who wants to donate money or

2:23:16or something different completely different to try to fill fill this issue um before us sort of

2:23:22preemptively going ahead with an unknown amount of money and so i'm not saying i'm not saying no

2:23:29by any means but i think that i hope that i hope you're following my train of thought on that

2:23:34that i think we should sort of kickstart that in my view we should kickstart this allow it to kind

2:23:39of breathe a little bit get some legs and kind of move on and see what happens after that

2:23:44councillor Goller i'll move it back to you're you're okay with yeah that that that works it just wanted

2:23:48to make sure that we're not closing the door to to that support thank you and thank you is there

2:23:55anything further than i'll call the vote then um as as amended okay everybody so um is anyone against

2:24:04the motions as amended no that's unanimous so thanks councillor Klassen for bringing it forward

2:24:10into the delegates as well it's not an ended conversation i can guarantee you so thank you

2:24:15for your input we really appreciate it okay i promised uh a break and so we're gonna do that

2:24:22right now uh it is 645 um i'm gonna make an executive decision that we come back at seven

2:24:31is that okay 15 minutes i just think i think maybe perhaps the next conversation might be

2:24:37a little longer so just seven o'clock okay and then we'll jump right in on that okay thank you

2:24:42very much everyone all right everyone this is your three minute warning this is your one minute

2:39:24warning everybody okay everyone i'd like to call the meeting back to order please

2:40:41and uh we are going to now discuss the windham street north and st george's square

2:40:48preparing for and mitigating construction and we did have our delegation the one delegation

2:40:57withdraw so there are no delegations there was some uh correspondence

2:41:06which means it's directly to us and so right off the top wondering if someone would be willing

2:41:13to move the motions to at least just get them on the floor all right i'll go downer and boost

2:41:20it till as moving in second day and um i already am aware of some amendments that want to come

2:41:27forward so council if you don't mind it wouldn't mind just sort of walking through them just

2:41:31just the best way to sequence through them okay um with the first one i'd like to go to councillor

2:41:38clausen who again was not here uh at the committee meeting and some of her uh motions that were passed

2:41:48at committee have flown now to the council but she would like to just address that with an

2:41:54amendment so i'll turn it over to councillor Klassen and then after that i'll go back to uh

2:42:00to us as council maybe over to councillor downer um yes thank you through you mr mayor um my

2:42:08consideration to council is just to rethink the my understanding is that we changed the direction

2:42:16from direct to encourage and i would just like to turn that back to direct and i'm just seeing it

2:42:24in two places uh under three i in three uh sorry three one and three two so i was reading it uh

2:42:34literally um and i would just suggest that i think that the word direct is appropriate in these

2:42:42circumstances perhaps um it's not going to be everywhere but it will be in some places

2:42:49and so i don't think encourage is is necessary um and i'm just looking potentially for a seconder

2:42:55thank you goller okay councillor goller has seconded so as simple as it is in front of us

2:43:01i will obviously open it up to any questions or comments but it's very simple we are changing

2:43:07two words from encourage back to direct uh and i will ask if anyone has questions

2:43:14if not i councillor Allt thank you mr mayor it is to you uh council clausen used the word

2:43:22reconsideration uh and i'm wondering if this is a motion of reconsideration because it changes the

2:43:28vote count no i think her commentary about reconsider is just to reconsider our position

2:43:35not to reconsider a vote of council since it came from committee it's not actually uh the

2:43:41will of council yet until it's ratified here so it's just a motion i think i made sense there

2:43:47i was that was that was pretty good yeah okay so um i'm gonna call the vote then on this amendment

2:43:55please and is anyone against that all right katyn and gibson and billings thank you so that does

2:44:06pass uh i'll change it over to councillor downer now who has a sequence of amendments that show

2:44:14both table and uh present to us go ahead yeah so i have um four motions uh and uh

2:44:22to the amendments and then a new motion at the end and if staff would clerk's office would like

2:44:28to put them up so one two and three will be in addition to number three this is how it's gonna

2:44:34go it's what i've been told and then the number four will be a final one at the end but i'll speak

2:44:40to them to them all now except number two which was a suggestion of the mayor and i'll let him

2:44:46speak to that after i've spoken to it so um i watched the committee the whole meeting i wasn't

2:44:52here i was i was away um and then i i've met with staff and thank you uh stacey lachlan for all

2:44:59the patients with me meeting with them and i've talked to colleagues i've talked to

2:45:03councillor crassan and councillor Goller and and the mayor on on this matter and it's um so the

2:45:10first one was around the playground a concern around the playground in sort of agreeing that

2:45:15yeah the size of it um and maybe the misplacement of it is a concern for flexibility the play

2:45:23structures that we saw in there were probably for very young children so you know you're not looking

2:45:28at youth 13s it's sort of um only a very young age group and and um what i would prefer to see and

2:45:36the sort of what i think is more appropriate is to reduce it to a one interactive place making

2:45:42structure um something like just if it's just a chickadee if it's a chickadee that's fine but that

2:45:48will be at that the uh design stage that that would be decided but it would be interactive that

2:45:54children could climb through it so it's partly a play structure it's partly a place making structure

2:45:58where people could have their pictures taken with it it could be instagram moments those types of

2:46:02things um i have no problems with kids in the downtown i think it's great the dgba does a lot

2:46:08of children's programming like the egg and um the Santa Claus parade they do halloween so there's

2:46:15lots of that going on and i'd like to see a lot more of that going on in the downtown once we've

2:46:19done this work as as well so i think it's um i think you know the square has a lots of opportunity

2:46:26for that um maybe just for sequencing we could just go one at a time okay it just makes it simpler

2:46:36just even if there's questions right if that's okay first of all is it council clausen are you

2:46:41willing to second uh yes council clausen okay thank you so why don't we just look at at the first

2:46:46amendment which is number one which councillor downer just described is there any questions on

2:46:51this item okay just kate and go ahead thank you terry i just have a question to staff um so the

2:47:01the feedback that we got when we were doing the extensive feedback that we've done on this is

2:47:05that people wanted a play space and uh this feels like it's removing the play space um and i assume

2:47:17that this would be like making sure that it's interactive and also already could be done in

2:47:22the design phase does this reduce it so that there's no more play space and there's only just one art

2:47:28piece uh through the mayor to councillor Caton um actually the type of thing that councillor downer's

2:47:35talking about like an interactive place making structure is the type of thing that we were

2:47:39considering for the play area for play and in fact we are designing the whole square so that kids

2:47:46can play throughout it like the planters and all those types of things they're designed for play but

2:47:50this specific area while the motion would reduce the overall area it still provides that opportunity

2:47:56for play thanks and through miss the mayor um so this isn't really prescriptive and like do we have

2:48:06like a specific dimension on the play space already like what does this do uh through the mayor

2:48:14to councillor Caton um we don't have a specific dimension on the concept but um you can see on

2:48:21the concept sort of that one interactive place making structure plus a few other little structures

2:48:26so the motion is clear that it would be reduced to sort of including one which provides that um

2:48:32sort of that instagram opportunity a place to take pictures also provides the opportunity for play

2:48:37but you will be able to see that the area will be reduced so that we're increasing the flexibility

2:48:43around it for other types of events and things to occur in the square thank you so it would just be

2:48:52one structure instead of a couple of structures so like you'd get like a conglomerate of children

2:48:58rather than more spaces for them to be free is that the uh my understanding it sorry

2:49:09through the mayor to councillor Caton um so we would have one um structure specifically designed

2:49:15as an interactive place making structure which children are encouraged to climb on and all of

2:49:19that um but as I said we are designing the whole square so that it's you know open for sort of

2:49:25playfulness like the design of the planters children can walk sort of go up the sides walk

2:49:30along if they're able all all those sorts of things so I think we are designing the whole square

2:49:36to be fun and interactive but this would be one area dedicated to that okay so we're not

2:49:42we're reducing the playability of the area we're just defining that there's going to be an interactive

2:49:48structure that's correct okay great thank you so much great thank you I'm going to call the vote

2:49:57then on this one okay is there anyone against this particular motion nobody so that's unanimous thank

2:50:06you so let's go on to the second one what can you pull it back up on the screen oh this one's mine

2:50:15okay so it's been moved and seconded I'll be very quick um so in talking with staff I just I I brought

2:50:22up the sort of discussion that we in my in my mind anyways we were kind of not on purpose but sort of

2:50:31forgetting about what the space could look like beautifully at night as well and so I was thinking

2:50:39about interactive lights uh placemaking lighting that can be throughout the whole square um and so

2:50:46some of that might be incorporated into the pavers and into the roadway and the sidewalks uh and then

2:50:53also I was thinking about is there an opportunity for interactive uh projectors that are I've we've

2:51:01all I've we've probably all seen them they they're up high and they can project down onto the ground

2:51:05into a large area um you know different different things for different seasons and different

2:51:12opportunities and some some of it now from a technology point of view can also be interactive

2:51:16too you know you you step on something that is projected and it it goes away or like I just think

2:51:24there's a lot of opportunity in in lighting I'll just keep it very high level there you go and so

2:51:30staff were I hope I'm not speaking at a term but they they thought it was a good idea um

2:51:36in talking to some colleagues as well just quickly about it they they agreed as well

2:51:40and they they thought that it would be good to bring that forward now so thank you counselor

2:51:44downer I'm bringing it forward I'll stop there and see if there's any questions no okay I'll call

2:51:52the vote then on on the lighting piece is there anyone against that no one okay great and if we

2:51:59could go to the third one third one is about the fountain so I'll just stop right now and I'll go

2:52:06back to counselor downer so this is asking staff to explore modifying the size and materiality of

2:52:11the lower basin of the family fountain so that it is consistent with the design in St. George's

2:52:17Square and accommodate off-season intervention that contributes aesthetically to the St. George's

2:52:22Square includes place place making lighting and honors the integrity of the artwork so this is

2:52:29just to further explore that um it would be good to see that that lower base is the part of like

2:52:34around it um that that that would be consistent with other um planter maybe things in the square

2:52:41that are going to be happening as well and you know something like that too I I suspect will come

2:52:47back and that the more detailed design stage as well if that is possible so great thank you so

2:52:53speaking to this one is there any questions specifically on the fountain no okay I'll call

2:53:00the vote on that is anyone against that nobody that's unanimous as well uh we're to number four

2:53:10which is actually not an amendment you said it was so this is an additional one that would go at

2:53:16at the end yeah and this is uh so so in this when I discussed this with uh with staff um since a lot

2:53:24since the committee of the whole meeting they had they had had some internal discussions and

2:53:30and I don't want to put words in their mouth but they had decided that they wouldn't need to bring

2:53:35back the um uh that the fine because design could come back to council as they wouldn't need it to

2:53:42go to for tender in November that type of detail is am I correct in saying that miss Loughlin

2:53:49through the mayor to councillor Downer but we would still plan to go to tender at the end of

2:53:54October um we can um tender it in different ways we would ideally like to tender it with like the

2:54:02overall concept being included because that will give us sort of the most love um the most degree

2:54:07of certainty with respect to what's being tendered and the price that comes back but we can um structure

2:54:13the tender in a way so that some of the final details can be decided after um so that there's

2:54:20opportunity for council to have input after we tender it so the concept that we're doing

2:54:25tonight is what's really important is right so and I just wanted to say too that I had some

2:54:30concerns around the renderings that were provided to council the sort of the blank white wall behind

2:54:36them and the not clarity around the pavers um and I've asked that I asked staff about that when it

2:54:42comes for engagement with the public on the design that the actual buildings be shown within the

2:54:49renderings and and the pavers because I think that context uh makes more much more effective input

2:54:56from the public on that and um I think councillor Cossin and I are going to suggest to the dgba

2:55:01that they actually hold the town hall for the whole membership on the design and not just for the

2:55:06board so um uh so I think I think um I think that would be good so I'll be talking to staff about

2:55:14that in the dgba at our meeting next week so that's um that's uh that's that number four and I

2:55:21remember in the discussion that was an issue for council that they want to design yeah is there any

2:55:28questions on that being brought back then that particular emotion as a standalone okay I'll call

2:55:35the vote then on that uh anyone against that detailed design coming back for council no okay so that

2:55:43is uh passed as well is there any other questions on the matter uh just questions

2:55:53okay is there any comments at all before we move forward council billings

2:56:00so mr. mayor clause three still has the concept plan uh be approved however number three is

2:56:08different from cow because it goes on to say including the following so I'd still like to

2:56:14separate three out not one two three four and everything else just number three the recommended

2:56:23concept plan for st. georgia square is outlined in the report dated July 8th be approved if that

2:56:29could be separated out and voted separately I would I would really appreciate that okay yeah

2:56:37yeah just like it was at cow and there and and the reason I voted against it at cow and will

2:56:42still I know it's the concept plan I'm very happy with respect to what councillor downer has put

2:56:48forward but I still disagree with respect to the the fountain in the washroom in front of the the

2:56:54mall and the um in the drugstore um I supported the reducing the play structure only because it's

2:57:02better but I still think the play structure should be more like uh by the new library and not in the

2:57:08in the square and there's there's other issues but but those are the two big ones and and I really

2:57:14do think that in front of the mall instead of the fountain and a washroom we're missing an

2:57:20opportunity with respect to uh because of the natural slope I think it could be an amphitheater

2:57:26and we could work with the owner of the mall and have events there we heard from um the downtown

2:57:32board that where the fountain currently is there won't be a lot of space there anyways for four

2:57:38events so anyway I just think it's a this concept plan is just a missed opportunity so I'm just

2:57:45going to vote against it again okay thank you thank you so much and I'll make sure that's separated

2:57:52then so what I'm going to look to call the vote on then is one which is the renewal program

2:58:00oh I'm sorry sorry Councillor Cossin my apologies go right ahead yes uh thank you through you Mr

2:58:11Marin I appreciate the um the opportunity to speak I don't have anything prepared but I

2:58:16I wasn't at the committee of the whole and I and I did uh want to share some of the thoughts

2:58:22that I had around these motions um I'll just be blunt for me the concepts it just it wasn't it wasn't

2:58:31there for me um I I there's a great cost to this project for the city and for business owners and

2:58:41I I really had hoped that within the designs I could see something that I was really excited about

2:58:49that I would want to pitch to to to everyone I spoke to but there's something within the

2:58:54renderings as as as Councillor Downer has picked up that is just it just doesn't quite uh hit the

2:59:00mark for me and so I do think that many of these motions start to address some of the holistic

2:59:08issues that I have with the design overall um there's just lack of cohesiveness for me like a theme

2:59:15there's like some of the storytelling elements some of the strategies that we've invested in as a

2:59:19city I think could be better reflected however I do I think that with these motions um we'll get a

2:59:27little bit closer to what I hope and I also just want to thank Councillor Downer for bringing back

2:59:32the design I do hope that when we have a design back that perhaps I will change my mind um and I'm

2:59:38gonna I'll I'll hold out for that um because there is another opportunity but um I would

2:59:44love to see some designs and I've I've spoken to staff about you know some of the images that we

2:59:49have for the library and some of the squares that um are included within those designs as well as some

2:59:55of the detailed floor plans there's just imagery in my mind that tells the story whether or not

3:00:02you like the architecture whether or not you like the design I think there's an elevated design

3:00:08story within within those images and I hope to see something similar as we come back in the fall

3:00:14and um and I think I'll I'll end it there but I I do thank you for the for the work because I know

3:00:21there's so many different pieces that have gone into this so much community engagement so many

3:00:26layers to this project and I overall am deeply excited about the opportunity to create something

3:00:34special within our downtown with st. George's square and I think that that's the intent and I'm

3:00:39and I'm hopeful that when we come back with some designs that I can also uh cheer uh with excitement

3:00:49great thank you maybe just before I call the vote on everything can I just ask a quick question

3:00:54on going out to the public and doing the engagement for the detailed design can you just explain like

3:00:59how will that be promoted and how can how can you rely on us to amplify that to get like a lot

3:01:06of people involved just wondering what the next steps are on that piece to you mr. mayor

3:01:13we will be promoting it in many of the ways that we've promoted our other public open houses so

3:01:17through our downtown update newsletter through social media we can make sure that we email

3:01:24counsel about it and provide social media messaging that you can share and amplify using your own

3:01:28accounts should you wish to do so but again we we have a communications strategy and plan

3:01:33um for all of our public engagement events um so we would be making sure that we follow all

3:01:39of those different types of things okay great and maybe you could in some cases you guys do a proactive

3:01:46thing to counsel it has a little nudge and maybe you could do that on this as well just so we can

3:01:51get as much uh you know interaction uh around this before the detailed design that'd be great

3:01:57yeah thank you very much I think that these amendments also speak to um a better place

3:02:05where we landed in my opinion and I think that uh there's still I think I said at the committee

3:02:14it didn't feel like sort of a wow moment or something like that at committee but

3:02:18I think the wow moment is to come with the detailed design so I think uh I think that

3:02:24that will be an exciting moment so it's sort of a stay tuned moment for us and hopefully that we

3:02:29can hear from um from everyone uh both some feedback before that comes back so what I'll do

3:02:35is I'll call the vote on one two and the the new number well and four and five and six and seven

3:02:46I think number eight would then be the new one of having the detailed design come back

3:02:53okay you want to put on the screen okay and then and then after that I'll call the vote

3:02:57separately on number three okay so basically I'm calling the vote on everything except for number

3:03:04three which I will vote on separately for councillor Bounds okay is everyone good I'm good at calling

3:03:10it a call to vote okay um so is anyone against everything except for number three okay so that's

3:03:19unanimous and then I'm going to call the vote now separately on number three which was as amended

3:03:25because there was a few changes there so call the vote on that is anyone against okay um we have

3:03:36Guller and Richardson and Klosson and Billings and two or five I got five so that passes okay thank you

3:03:55and um thank you to staff as well and just a just a side note I think I think

3:04:08the closeness of the vote of council I think speaks to the importance of the detailed design

3:04:14so I say that as encouragement I do not expect that to be that close

3:04:20so I think that's kind of a wake-up call maybe for everybody that there's work to do on that

3:04:24details designed to have it come back so that we maybe have a bit more unity around what we can

3:04:28rally around okay thank you uh we are on the last one I think

3:04:38yes councillor Kerrion over to you you're going to speak to this quick item for us on public

3:04:44appointment policy update it's going to be very quick this is a housekeeping uh clauses um I went

3:04:52in fact there shouldn't be any mystery to it even our local press Richard called and asked me all

3:04:58the details and I gave him some background and he called me back and said there's no story here so

3:05:04nothing got in the local press but basically um our terms of our advisory committees of council

3:05:11we've created some terms of reference to brand new we reappointed committees I had some questions of

3:05:16staff about definitions specifically a definition of resident because there's a lot of

3:05:22acts in the provincial and municipal field that define a resident as a property owner or a

3:05:29tenant of property and there's lots of staff have a broader interpretation that could include

3:05:36occupants of a tenancy a spouse or a child of a tenant over 18 people who physically reside in

3:05:43Guelph but may be unhoused and so if we are going to define some of our terms within our policy

3:05:51broadly I think that council should have that broad interpretation in its policy so that we

3:05:57can be very clear about the definition of resident so I there's no identifiable individuals uh that

3:06:06I'm bringing forward uh but uh the motions on the agenda are that we suspend the terms of reference

3:06:14in their current form um specifically related to eligibility and qualifications

3:06:19and then staff return back to council with some further definition for that particular

3:06:28eligibility criteria great thank you as easy as that is who wants to second this one

3:06:38okay uh alt will thank you any questions

3:06:42vote no I'll call the vote is anyone against that unanimous and we're done thank you councillor

3:06:51farah um m2 the bylaws councillor Busuttil you get to read them out for us they're on the screen for

3:07:06that bylaws 2025 21 0 86 to 2025 21 0 88 uh 2025 21 0 94 2022 2025 21 0 96 2025

3:07:2421 109 2025 21 117 bylaws 2025 to 21 123 to 2025 21 129 and bylaw you did this on purpose

3:07:38and bylaw 2025 21 131 be approved subject to subsection to section 28 dot 4 1 1 subsection

3:07:49for the minis black thank you I think you missed a dash but I'll let it go

3:07:58your council ward me billings I'm sure will second that right perfect anything more on the bylaws

3:08:08nobody is anyone against the bylaws nobody thank you very much and

3:08:16we are at mayor's announcements I have none isn't that a nice thing so that means we have

3:08:27adjournment suit up tomorrow this is what my colleagues are saying

3:08:38um clausen and galler are going to move adjournment for me right thank you anyone against

3:08:46adjournment nobody see you tomorrow same bat time same bat channel take care