Committee of the Whole

3:13Hello everyone this is a 30 second heads up if I could have my colleagues online look to

3:19just turn their their cameras on for us so we can just check to make sure we have

3:24quorum that'd be great thank you okay we're good to go and so I'd like to call the meeting to order

3:38we're at the committee of the whole meeting today is Tuesday March the 4th 2025 it is 9 30 in the

3:44morning and thank you for joining us right off the top is there any disclosure of pecuniary

3:49interest or any general nature there of especially for the item that's in front of us for potentially

3:54going in on closed don't see or hear anybody and so looking for approval from council to go into

4:05closed session there's one item it is 601 Scottsdale Drive the Ontario land tribunal update

4:12this is under section 239 2 e excuse me and f of the municipal act regarding litigation or potential

4:19litigation including matters before administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local

4:25board and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communication is necessary

4:30for that purpose and councillor Gowar will move that for me and Richardson will will second that to

4:37move into closed is there anything further on that item hearing none and just for being up front I do

4:48have regrets from councillor Klosson obviously and so with that I'll call the the vote as anyone

4:56against moving into closed session nobody that's great that passes that's unanimous so we will

5:02see everybody in closed session and then from a public point of view when that is done I'll come

5:07back out high level summary and we'll continue with the open session thank you so much okay I'd like

35:00to call the meeting to order in the open session if I could just have my colleagues online just at

35:07least put on their cameras for us I'd appreciate it just before I give the summary of the in-camera

35:17item that we went in and says a council I just want to be very very clear that

35:24councillor Caron did not partake in any of the discussion at all in camera in fact she left

35:31the meeting in its entirety so there was only one item that we had in there it was 601 Scott

35:37Steel Drive and and so councillor Caron was not a part of that discussion at all she did disclose

35:45a pecuniary interest there and and she's done so in the past on the same item just so everybody

35:51knows as well but to give you the high level summary on that we did receive information

35:57from our staff in regards to that topic and in turn council did give direction on that very item

36:04to staff as well to to follow through on so that that's it for the summary on that and with that

36:12we will kick off the open meeting if you could stand if you're able please and we can recognize our

36:18national anthem probably no better time than to be really thinking about our our country today

37:52with that national anthem that's for sure so anyway sorry that was

38:00completely not in my notes but there you go let's continue let's have a moment of silent

38:05reflection before we move on okay thanks everyone and now for our indigenous territorial acknowledgement

38:23as we gather let us take time reflect on our privilege to live and work here in Gualt for

38:27city built over rich and dissonant histories we're guests here and we should reflect upon

38:31the responsibility to care for this land the people who live here today and the generations to come

38:37if our actions today can move us towards reconciliation we should take pause and make

38:41those decisions with intention and gratitude this place we call Gualt has served as traditional lands

38:47and a place of refuge for many peoples over time but more specifically the Anahuanarok and the Honolun

38:51Shoni this land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the mississaugas of the credit

38:56First Nation and Gualt flies directly adjacent to the Haldaman track and is part of a long

39:01established traditional hunting grounds for the Six Nations of the Grand River and many First Nations

39:07Inuit and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island called Gualt home today

39:13and with that thank you very much is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general

39:17nature there of for any of the items in front of the committee for today not hearing or seeing

39:24anybody again I do have formal regards from Councillor Klosson for today's meeting to kick

39:32things off we have staff recognition and it is for the Ontario Association of Certified Engineering

39:40Technicians and Technologists the Municipal Infrastructure Contract Administrator designation

39:48and with that I will turn it over to continue with this recognition from Chair O'Rourke

39:55Thank you Mayor Guthrie it's my pleasure on behalf of Council to recognize the following

40:01city staff for their recent awards and achievements I'd like to recognize Kyle Gibson manager

40:06technical services and Bob Richardson construction inspector for completing the requirements to

40:12earn the Municipal Infrastructure Contract Administrator designation from the Ontario

40:17Association of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologies OACET's aim in creating municipal

40:25infrastructure designations is to boost public trust and build confidence in the qualifications

40:30that is it a asset do they spell it out I don't know members hold it is also expected to decrease

40:38post construction disruptions to citizens and businesses as infrastructure has been verified

40:43to have been correctly installed and commissioned by municipal infrastructure inspectors and

40:49municipal infrastructure contract administrator certified staff so congratulations Kyle and Bob

41:03so you want to come down come on down and you're the next contestants for the photo

42:30well thank you very much and congratulations again I see your entourage is leaving now

42:36back to work thank you very much Chair O'Rourke and with that we're going to move right into our

42:45service area starting with governance and the office of the Chief Administrative Officer

42:50the first one is just a consent item which is the 2025 property tax policy does anyone wish to

42:57pull that one it's sort of our annual administrative yep good no one's pulling that good I like it

43:06Councillor Busuttil was willing to move that item for consent and would some be willing to second

43:12that one for me Richardson thank you any questions or any comments before I call the vote no okay I'll

43:19call the vote anyone against against that item nobody that's unanimous thank you so much

43:27and moving right along we do have items for discussion under the governance and office of

43:31the Chief Administrative Officer starting with the redesigning of the advisory committees of Council

43:37and right on here it says the final report and so Dylan is going to give us our presentation I guess

43:47the final presentation as well and then we have we do have no delegations now on this item so

43:56a couple pieces of correspondence and then we'll get into this topic so Dylan I'll turn it over to

44:02you and then it's back to us go right ahead thank you very much Mr. Mayor and good morning

44:07members of City Council I'm very pleased to be here to present to you the final report of the

44:12redesigning advisory committees of Council project this work has taken place over two years and in two

44:18phases the first phase culminated with Council's approval of an advisory committee governance

44:23framework that framework is a best in class example of how to manage advisory committees

44:29at the local level we know it's best in class because dozens of other municipalities in Ontario

44:34are looking to emulate it and several municipalities outside of Ontario including large urban

44:39centres like Vancouver have also expressed an interest in adopting elements of the framework

44:43within their legislative environments the approach that this council has chosen to take

44:48regarding advisory committees reaffirming your support to them increasing resources

44:54approving a framework clearly outlined roles is a model for other municipalities to follow

45:00phase two of the project and what I'm here to talk about today was the application of that

45:05framework to the city's current advisory committees as part of this project city staff engaged heavily

45:11with current committees committee members and City Council and I want to highlight the engagement

45:16that's taken place as part of this project we met with all 14 advisory committees three times

45:22for a total of 42 public meetings with advisory committees we completed a survey that was completed

45:28by 50 advisory committee members we interviewed seven advisory committee members we interviewed

45:32eight members of council we held three public engagement sessions including a dinner with

45:37residents from equity deserving groups we formed a working group of eight current advisory committee

45:42members from seven different committees which met four times to provide feedback on the development

45:46of the governance framework we held two information sessions for committee members to ensure they

45:51understood the new governance framework after it was approved by City Council we held two sessions

45:56specifically for chairs and vice-chairs of committees to discuss different scenarios for the

46:01future of their groups we had participation from chairs representing 10 out of 14 committees

46:07and we conducted small group sessions with seven members of City Council

46:11to get their feedback on topics believed to be a priority for advisory committees

46:16based on this engagement and staff's expertise the final report before you today recommends

46:21the city moves forward with seven advisory committees all 14 of the city's current advisory

46:26committees have passed resolutions in support of those proposed changes and those resolutions along

46:32with any other feedback from current advisory committees is included in the staff report

46:37there has never been a holistic review of advisory committees conducted in the city of

46:42gualph before now some committees have existed for decades with sporadic or no updates or reviews

46:48others have occasionally been merged expanded other terms of reference updated but always in

46:53isolation from the broader advisory committee program of work that lack of systematic review

46:59and continuous improvement is over each of the seven proposed committees will be reviewed once

47:04per term of council including feedback from the committee itself and we expect that each of those

47:09four-year reviews is going to yield changes it could be no changes to some committees it could

47:14be terms of reference tweaks to others it could be significant mandate mandate shifts for some

47:19committees or it could be the dissolution of committees if that particular topic is no longer

47:24a priority for city council this reflects the reality that there is no perfect list of topics

47:30for advisory committees and the topics that committees consider should change over time

47:34as council priorities shift if the proposed changes are approved by council at the end of the month

47:40staff will immediately begin a public recruitment campaign and aim to bring back appointment

47:44recommendations to city council in may following those appointments our new committees can begin

47:48meeting as early as june or july of this year i want to thank two groups for helping us complete

47:53this review phase one of the project in particular was completed collaboratively with the guelph lab

47:59by partnering with the guelph lab we not only leveraged their academic and engagement expertise

48:03but we doubled the amount of funding available for this project by taking advantage of grants

48:07only available to educational institutions and i want to thank the guelph lab for the time and

48:11effort they put into making this project a success secondly and most importantly i want to thank our

48:17current advisory committee members at one time the city has somewhere between 100 and 110 committee

48:24members these are residents who freely volunteer their time taking time away from work friends and

48:30family life to make the city they already love even better city council advisory committees and staff

48:36won't agree on every policy issue and that's the point respectful respectful disagreement is the

48:43cornerstone of our democratic decision making disagreement is not a symptom that needs to be

48:47treated it's the expected result of the systems that we've put in place for this particular work

48:53however i am grateful to have the support of all 14 of our current advisory committees and i want

48:58to thank the city's volunteers for the work they do to make guelph such a great place to live work

49:02in play thank you and i'm happy to answer any questions well thank you so much uh dylan before

49:10we then get to any uh questions can we have someone move the uh item for us okay uh we'll go gipson

49:20and billings thank you just saw them both there so um and is there any uh is there any questions

49:29from anybody at okay i see gipson and we'll start with you go ahead to miss marrick do you know what

49:38i i'll i'll defer to your chairing i have comments not questions okay uh you we can wrap it all up in

49:48one okay thank you everyone can do questions or comments yeah but through you mr mayor i just i

49:55just wanted to give my thanks and uh credit to the clerks department and all the work that they've

50:00done in this file this is a very complex file one that i know council has been looking at for for

50:07terms quite frankly about the the committee structures and how they're formed and and how

50:11many we need and how many we should have in place so uh credit to you and your team um dylan for the

50:19work you've put in i appreciate it after going through the report this week i do appreciate the

50:23fact that we'll be reviewing it every term but at the at the end of the day this is uh this is a

50:28significant amount of work and uh structuring for the city and it is appreciated it doesn't go

50:33unnoticed thank you okay thank you uh oh rark please uh thank you mayor guthrie through you to

50:42mr mcman just a quick question and it's because it adjusts the position between this report

50:47and the responsibility the chair is presenting to council occasionally and then our procedural

50:52bylaw is coming shortly so i can't find it quickly but there's a mention that that a chair of an aoc

51:00can come and present to council that there's no time limit right but then in our procedural

51:05bylaw there is a five or uh 10 minute limit for delegations and there's even a maximum suggested

51:14for staff presentations so i'm curious to know why there isn't at least a recommended maximum i think

51:20it's 20 minutes for staff presentations um i'm just wondering why the same doesn't apply through you

51:27mr mayor to councillor rark so the same restrictions that would apply to staff would advise to chairs

51:32or representative representatives of advisory committees that are presenting so it is a 10

51:36minute limit for staff presentations they are not treated as delegates so they are not subject to

51:41the time limits or registration requirements that are placed on uh members of the public looking to

51:45delegate okay so three america three to mr mcman so just so it's clear to me if a chair of an advisory

51:51committee comes to present to council then sort of the procedural bylaw kicks in and they're considered

51:57at that point that that's correct and i would just add that when advisory committee chairs or

52:03committee reps come to speak to council they are always welcome to speak not as a delegate on any

52:07item where their committee has already provided feedback so it is not just any item that comes

52:12before city council but one where their committee has provided feedback that's included in the staff

52:16report or something like that okay thank you thank you is there anything further at all on this item

52:26okay oh sorry i'm very sorry uh councillor uh ron please we're going to delegations now

52:36nope there's no delegations it's been moved and seconded i was just about to call the vote

52:42yeah i had i had amendments yeah please you have the floor you can

52:48take the amendments that i had sent to clerks um i saw that there were two delegations on the

52:54agenda so i had been holding back my amendments so just confirming i'm on the right item here

53:01which is the final report of the advisory committee okay yeah just to be clear there's no

53:08delegations anymore and it's over to you and you can absolutely table your amendments right now

53:15okay great thank you and and they're fairly simple they're administrative in my opinion

53:20i noticed as i was reading through each of the terms of reference that the membership section

53:26had different language and i just wanted to align all that language so it was consistent

53:31i also felt that in the list of skills-based committees there were certain

53:38areas of expertise on some of the committees that that could be enhanced

53:43um i feel that widening the breadth of potential applicants is a good thing um and um i i don't know

53:55we we had we did have some feedback specifically i think economic development and um committee

54:00of adjustment where we're happy with those additional um membership and composition um

54:07on the heritage gulf there was a real focus on skills-based but i do think that additional

54:13areas of expertise and education could solicit applications from teachers librarians

54:20their education is a wide area we we do a lot of part of the mandate of heritage gulf is to educate

54:28the public celebrate community engagement is and heritage organizations are arts organizations

54:33doors open organizers um um architectural conservancy museums historical societies that

54:40do a lot of research a lot of expertise is in that um and then lived experience i thought that you

54:46know some of the best um uh members of that committee um have been those with lived experience

54:53so i'm just aligning all the terms of reference to be consistent and so i'll place these amendments

54:59on the floor thank you thank you so much would some of you will need to second these

55:08eight and we'll do that thank you and is there any questions on the amendment okay okay gipson

55:18and orark again gipson go ahead thank you three mr mayor obviously i don't want to distract from

55:23the work that's already been done from my staff so i do want to give them an opportunity to weigh in

55:28on their thoughts um how much how much restructuring of our of the report of the proposal does this

55:39represent how much change does it represent does it represent any more does it open this up to

55:45um removing the final designation from the report and turning it back into a working document i

55:52just like to know that this does not represent additional work that needs to now be done through

55:56consultations or anything like that through you mr mayor to councillor gibson um the the short

56:05answer to your question is no these will be changes to the terms of reference which are included as

56:09attached documents to to this report they would still be approved and it wouldn't cause any delay

56:14to the project moving forward um as councillor Caron pointed out with regards to the economic

56:19development and tourism advisory committee and property standards and committee of adjustment

56:23we have no concerns with these particular changes um staff did share some comments and

56:30notes regarding heritage gulf and we do have planning staff available to answer questions

56:34more specifically if if council likes okay thank you through through you mr mayor biville perhaps

56:41ask the same question to planning staff on on their thoughts on the the heritage gulf comment

57:00through the mayor to the councillor um the concerns we raised about the additions to the

57:05heritage gulf committee um relate to the expertise required to provide technical advice on heritage

57:11planning matters at the city um it wasn't apparent to me how education um and community

57:19engagement directly relate to an expertise in heritage planning or heritage conservation

57:29okay i i appreciate that perhaps mr mayor if you don't mind before taking the vote then we could

57:33separate we could separate the items a little bit so that we have an opportunity to vote up or down

57:38on on some of these amendments sure um you know before i go to councillor or roark i just want to

57:47kind of try to make things flow as best as possible maybe i saw the mover put her hand back up maybe

57:52just as a response to that and then i'll go to ororak um i thought i saw you your hand go up

57:58councillor caron did you want to just quickly respond to that yeah it was more um responding to

58:03mr mallin's comments and it's not intended that um it's to widen the breadth of applicants

58:10ultimately staff make recommendations on who's appointed to the committee based on the needs of

58:14the committee at that time and the needs of the committee change over time so for example right now

58:19the committee is very focused on port forward designations due to the expiry of the heritage

58:24register so research and designation and planning and all of all of those skills that are that are

58:29in their terms of reference are very much needed on the committee and they'll make recommendations

58:32to council accordingly and council will appoint accordingly but there's other times where the

58:38committee has a need for a different wider set of skills and again staff will make those

58:43recommendations to us um but excluding i mean education means librarians and and organizers

58:51community engagement is people who like organize doors open arts organizations there's a there's a

58:58wide range of experience in our community and ultimately all this does is invite nominees

59:05the actual appointments and the skills that they bring to the committee will will happen at the staff

59:12recommendation level but opening it up to a wider breadth of nominees can only be a good thing

59:19in my opinion thank you and just before i go to council for our work our deputy ceo gene homes

59:26would like to also reply um through the through the mayor to um to the committee um so a couple of

59:34things that just jump out for us and i appreciate what council caran is saying we do want to make

59:39sure that we're opening um opening up to um a wider group of applicants so we we welcome that

59:49we just wanted to point out to when we see community engagement so that is not

59:54a specialty that's related to the mandate of the of the heritage committee so that is that is not

1:00:00something that necessarily the heritage committee would take on and i just wanted to point out to

1:00:05that um this is a more technical committee than perhaps some of the other committees the heritage

1:00:10act is very prescriptive um so we would be looking to um have those members on the committee who have

1:00:16that knowledge who can apply that to uh some of the the heritage issues that are coming forward to

1:00:22that uh that committee so i just wanted to add that thank you okay thank you so i'll go to council

1:00:28or work and then i'll call the vote on this amendment but i'll split it as been requested okay so

1:00:33council or work same question you had the same question oh okay well that was easy i will then

1:00:38call the vote then on the amendment um i have a feeling can i just have it up on the screens uh clerk

1:00:45i have a feeling it's just the heritage one that i think is just popped out so i have a feeling we

1:00:50don't have to actually vote on all of them differently am i seeing the room agree with me yeah okay

1:00:57okay yeah we're just waiting for it to go up yeah uh mr. mayor uh through you and to the committee

1:01:07we'll we'll pull them up on screen here for you uh we'll have two slides one for clause one one for

1:01:13clause two that you have just mentioned we can vote on uh together and then clause three will be separate

1:01:18okay okay so what you'll see on the screen is one and then you'll see on the second screen number two

1:01:24those can be one vote and then the third one will be separate am i saying that right okay

1:01:31so i will call the vote then on screen on the motions from screen one and two for the amendment

1:01:37from councillor caron okay i'll call the votes anyone against those no perfect let's go to the

1:01:45third screen then which is the one uh directly for the heritage advisory committee okay so i'll

1:01:55call the vote then on that it oh gibson go ahead did you did you want to no no i'm just

1:02:02preemptively putting my hand up i'm voting against okay okay it's always just wait for always just

1:02:08wait for me to call the vote yeah can you just put the screen up one more time for me uh clerk's

1:02:14that'd be great just uh put that back up one more time no one needs to see me there you go okay so i'll

1:02:40call the vote if anyone is against these amendments please raise your hand okay all right so we have

1:02:48oror and downer and guthrie and richardson and billings and um gibson that's six i believe

1:03:01so if it's a six six tie that means the motion fails yep so it's failed point of order yeah go ahead

1:03:11i know it's it is probably too late because you put clause a and clause b i take i'm gonna make the

1:03:18assumption that it's b that's causing the most dissension is it too late to separate a and b or

1:03:23can i bring that back at council i can bring it back at the end of the month yeah i think uh i'm so

1:03:32sorry then let's just it's okay the vote's already been taken yeah i'll bring it back we could we could

1:03:37look at maybe just throw it up on the screen though just so everyone's not bringing it back at the end

1:03:42of the month yeah so i plan to bring it back anyway yeah no i know i know that part but just for the

1:03:49sense of the context of the discussion we're in throw it back up just so i can see it just so

1:03:54everyone can see it just so we can know what to expect at the end of the month yeah so it could

1:04:00have been a might have been okay as you're as you're saying education you know see heritage

1:04:04organizations might have been okay but it might have been more of the b one that uh that jumped out

1:04:08everyone so yeah just think about that one then in that context for possibly the end of the month

1:04:13okay i'll look to you thumbs up perfect thank you okay is there anything further on this one

1:04:23if not i could call the vote then as amended i'm going to do it i will call the vote then

1:04:30on the redesigning of advisory committees of council the final report but as amended

1:04:38is anyone against that nobody dylan staff good job all right appreciated

1:04:49councillor downer is clapping we will all we will all do this because it is a lot of work

1:04:54thank you thank you to the three of you that joined in with me on that that's appreciate it

1:05:01all right let's keep moving along then the 2025 governance review dylan you're up again

1:05:10so you can go right ahead and after that laura-lairut will also join us as well so dylan you're first

1:05:20thank you very much mr mayor i'm happy to be here to present the 2025 governance review to city council

1:05:26for consideration this is the fifth governance review the city clerk's office has conducted

1:05:31since we began the process close to a decade ago and i want to spend just a couple of minutes this

1:05:35morning outlining the impact that these reviews have had governance reviews in guelph are conducted

1:05:41twice per term of council once early in the term and once in the midterm mark like today's report

1:05:47any governance related policy procedure or bylaw is on the table for each review and the city clerk's

1:05:52office uses the reviews to ensure that all of the city's governance related documents are up to date

1:05:57and reflect best practices in municipal governance by combining governance updates into a single report

1:06:03we ensure that matters of governance are never considered in isolation but as part of the broader

1:06:07system of government in guelph as part of previous governance reviews over the last 10 years city

1:06:13council has amended updated or approved the procedure bylaw five times the closed meeting

1:06:18protocol variety of policies and procedures related to ceo recruitment selection and performance

1:06:24policies and procedures related to the recruitment and hiring and contract administration of

1:06:28municipal officers like the treasurer or clerk several amendments to the delegation of authority

1:06:32bylaw the committee of the whole terms of reference the code of conduct for council and local boards

1:06:37policies and procedures impacting advisory committees we approved a petition policy we

1:06:42approved a city council vacancy policy and that's just a snapshot of the work that we've been able

1:06:46to move forward using this process most of these updates are made proactively not reactively to

1:06:52something happening in the city at the moment to highlight the value of this approach we can look at

1:06:57the recent ceo recruitment process as part of the 2021 governance review city council approved a

1:07:04variety of policies and processes related to ceo recruitment and selection in 2021 there was no

1:07:10expectation that those policies would be immediately used but when the ceo position did become vacant

1:07:15in 2024 city council was able to efficiently effectively and transparently hire a new ceo

1:07:21without the need to review or amend any policies or processes we had the playbook ready to go it

1:07:26was approved by council and staff went out and executed it that's the value of these reviews

1:07:31they ensure that wealth governance system is effective and efficient in the face of changing

1:07:35legislative environments changing technological environments and changing resident expectations

1:07:41topics included in the 2025 governance review have been added in one of two ways staff include

1:07:47proactive changes to ensure the resilience of our systems moving forward and we also respond to

1:07:51requests from individual members of city council city council as a body and advisory committees

1:07:57of council where they've passed relevant motions the significant staff recommended changes in this

1:08:03review are in response to what we see impacting other municipalities across the province not issues

1:08:08that gulf currently faces we're very lucky in gulf to have a council that treats each other staff

1:08:13and community members with respect and the procedural changes proposed today will ensure

1:08:17that council and meeting chairs can continue to effectively manage meetings should that ever cease

1:08:22to be the case in the future also included in this report are updates to the city of gulf code

1:08:27of conduct as recommended by the city's integrity commissioner in response to resolutions of council

1:08:32passed in 2024 laura dean from aird and burles the city's integrity commissioner is available today

1:08:37to answer any questions that members of council have finally there are also resolutions from the

1:08:42accessibility advisory committee included in this review and laura ly route the chair of the aac is

1:08:47here to speak about those resolutions so i will pass things over to chair root thank you so much

1:08:55uh chair root we'll just wait for you to uh come on screen virtually to uh

1:09:02hello yeah we can hear you i'm having trouble with my webcam this morning so we might have to just

1:09:08stick to hearing me is that all right oh yeah of course and you're coming through yeah you're

1:09:13coming through very clear so uh you can go right ahead uh whenever you're ready thank you so much

1:09:21thank you all for hearing me out again today it's always a pleasure to be here i don't have a lot

1:09:27to go over so this should be pretty quick i'm just here today representing the aac in this discussion

1:09:34in october as dylan as click mcman mentioned we passed a number of motions regarding our

1:09:40governance and i'm happy to answer any questions that you have about those motions here today i

1:09:45believe they were all included in the information package you all received just as a brief overview

1:09:51the general theme of these motions was a desire um to be more involved in our own governance

1:09:57essentially in a lot of ways the aac is very different than other acocs and we believe that

1:10:03those differences are important to keep in mind in this conversation firstly the aac is a statutory

1:10:10acoc our involvement in city business and our existence are mandated by the provincial government

1:10:16under the accessibility for ontarians with disabilities act um but perhaps the most

1:10:21important factor is that we are a group made up of marginalized people the a the aac membership

1:10:27must be comprised by a majority of people with disabilities under the aod a so we're all subject

1:10:34matter experts in disability rights and accessibility and with equity being important to the city of

1:10:40gulf it's also very important to involve us pretty heavily in decisions that impact our impact our

1:10:46membership and our governance it brings to mind the saying nothing about us without us um which

1:10:52outlines how no decisions impacting disabled people should be made without heavy involvement of those

1:10:57same people so in october of this year we passed four motions relating to our governance um we

1:11:04asked for increased engagement with staff we asked to be involved in the reworking of some of the

1:11:10orientation documents for the aac um we asked to be more involved in the scheduling of our meetings

1:11:17and finally we asked for council to revisit the process through which the aac members are appointed

1:11:22to include more involvement from the aac we would really like the opportunity to make recommendations

1:11:28to council about the membership the same way that staff do and we'd also like to be made aware of

1:11:34the staff recommendations as well um this is not at all born out of a lack of trust in staff's

1:11:39ability to recommend good members it's instead coming from a place of the aac wanting to be

1:11:45involved as well since our lived experience may help us identify gaps or highlight things that

1:11:50people without our lived experience might not see as easily collaboratively with staff we think we

1:11:55could work together to make very good recommendations that could strengthen the representation of

1:12:00individuals in our city um i don't want to presume what will work best for staff or for

1:12:05council in terms of what this collaboration would look like operationally so we'd be very

1:12:10interested in just working with staff on setting up a system that works well uh from an operational

1:12:14standpoint um but yeah that's pretty much it just the city has an accessibility advisory committee

1:12:21for expressly this purpose to advise on ways to strengthen accessibility in our city and what

1:12:27our membership looks like when we meet and what our training looks like are all things that

1:12:31fall under our purview so we hope you will consider drawing us drawing on us more heavily in these

1:12:37matters thank you so much thank you for your presentation is there a follow-up question i've

1:12:43got galler and then uh busatil please go ahead um thank you and through your worship uh thank you

1:12:50mrute for for the presentation um i i really uh understand where you're coming from staff did

1:12:57let us know that there may be there may be a question concern here what happens when the

1:13:03accessibility advisory committee recommends someone say and then council because we have

1:13:08made these decisions in in a closed uh meeting what happens if we decide not to follow the

1:13:13recommendation and that happens in a closed meeting how would that actually impact the relation

1:13:19between members of the accessibility advisory committee knowing that perhaps that the person

1:13:24that was appointed was not the one that was recommended by the committee and and per our

1:13:31the way that council works we would not actually be able to give a rationale or explain why we make

1:13:35decisions that happened in a closed meeting so i'm just going to jump in uh rely on and council

1:13:44i feel a little bit like your question might be out of order only because nothing has been

1:13:51tabled yet in regards to that matter councillor i believe kate might look to move some amendments

1:13:58in regards to that then at that time it could be um if your questions could be there i understand

1:14:05probably why you're asking it now because the representative is here yeah so i'm following

1:14:09you on that um so um i'll i'll allow this one okay but but i i'd rather not be going back and forth

1:14:20on something that is not technically on the floor yet but we do know something's coming and with

1:14:25making sure we have engagement i understand so go go ahead i'll allow it but just be aware okay everyone

1:14:38okay laura light i think you just have to press star six or unmute oh just unmute sorry just unmute

1:14:44not star six oh you're right thank you so much you're there you're there go go ahead and answer

1:14:48councillor goller thank you very much maria gathry um through you maria gathry the councillor goller

1:14:54we we are very used to um sometimes making recommendations that aren't we i think i can

1:15:01speak for everyone on the aac that we have a lot of faith in council and um we would we would be

1:15:09very used to making recommendations that aren't followed through because we only can recommend

1:15:16from our experience and our place of expertise whereas council and staff have a lot more expertise

1:15:23in these areas a lot of the time so i don't i don't foresee that being an issue but um

1:15:29i i hope that answers your question it does thank you very much i appreciate it thank you worship

1:15:35thank you in yourself uh councillor busadil yes thank you and thank you for your presentation

1:15:42i just have a question about kind of the operation of the aac and again i come from you know school

1:15:47board and education and and school councils in may of each year school councils have an

1:15:53opportunity to say these are the kinds of skills that we hope for a principal that the school board

1:15:59will appoint to a school so i i see a difference between a process where the aac says we see some

1:16:08skills gaps in the aac some representation and so on that then informs the you know staff selection

1:16:16i see a difference between that versus a specific individual and looking at individual applications

1:16:23do you currently do that as a committee that looks at how how you can be more effective

1:16:30in general without any specific applications and providing that kind of input i've done it again

1:16:42i couldn't find my unmute button i'm sorry uh through you mayor got three two councillor

1:16:47yes we we do already actually do that um when new applications are opened the staff liaison

1:16:54comes to the aac and says are there any current service gaps that you would like us to address

1:16:59and look for in these applications so for example if we notice we no longer have any

1:17:05individuals who remember the blind community we might bring that up um but that still leaves

1:17:12area for us to not be heavily involved in if say there is an organization that members of the

1:17:18community are aware um is not an organization that members of that community are comfortable

1:17:25with representing us for example um that might not be something that staff are aware of and if

1:17:32they put forward a recommendation and we would be able to highlight that and say that might not

1:17:37be something that represents the disabled community well that organization um

1:17:42whereas we can't do that currently because we don't see applications and we aren't aware of any

1:17:47specific recommendations so we were hoping for added involvement past what we have now

1:17:54sorry just to follow up if i may through the mayor so what what i'm hearing is that

1:18:00gaps in the operation of the aac representation service um you currently do and you provide that

1:18:08to staff but it sounds like it's the other side of the coin which is um somehow advising to staff

1:18:15that and correct me if i misunderstood that there may be representation that is not as desired to

1:18:23reflect the needs of the community is that is is that what's missing is the uh the concern on the

1:18:30flip side yeah and not necessarily just um that there are like problematic things but just that

1:18:38with us only having the ability to identify service gaps and not to really look at at

1:18:45applications and say wow this person would actually be fantastic and fill a gap that we

1:18:49haven't thought of but now that we see that application that makes a lot of sense um there

1:18:55are just some things that we might catch that that folks who aren't members of the disabled

1:18:59community might not and sorry through the mayor just my last final clarification so when you

1:19:06identify gaps it's not only representation but also skills that might benefit the operation of the

1:19:13aac um and do you see space to have those kinds of company yeah so it's both skills and representation

1:19:21is that correct yes they do ask us for that however i you know before i joined the aac i i doubt

1:19:29anybody thought like it would be great to have a disabled disability like um digital accessibility

1:19:35specialist on you know what i mean but if someone saw that on an application they might think wait

1:19:40a minute we don't have anyone with specific skills around digital accessibility involved in the aac

1:19:46so um yeah that that is what we're looking for thank you thank you see nothing further thank you

1:19:56very much for joining us today and and with that we're going to move into delegations so our first

1:20:04is uh mike ashkoui is going to come on up see there might come on down when you're available is more

1:20:11is more in uh ashkoui here as well is more in here no and so more in is not here and then

1:20:24morgan is here we just heard from you there so thank you for joining us morgan uh mike will go

1:20:30with you and then morgan you're in the wings we'll just turn the mic on there for you mike

1:20:37where is it is it on now oh beautiful in surround sound just uh just so everyone knows uh five minutes

1:20:44is yeah is the allotted time you'll hear the time at the four minutes thirty second mark okay beautiful

1:20:49microphones do get turned off at five minutes so just be aware go ahead mike okay so good morning

1:20:54council and mr mayor so my name is mike ashkoui i'm representing myself but also as a member of the

1:20:59disabled community one of the reasons that i'm delegating today is um i want to acknowledge the

1:21:06great work that staff has done with working with us on the aac but as others laura lie had mentioned

1:21:14we're looking to strengthen the relationships within our community when i was asked to join the aac

1:21:20it wasn't by staff it was members of the community outreaching to me had said mike you have a wonderful

1:21:26set of skills in media you have a very strong voice and you're willing to stand up and as part of

1:21:32my indigenous teachings that i've learned over the course of through the community here in guelph

1:21:37and recognizing recognizing there's a number of disabled indigenous individuals it's community

1:21:43that helps build us so the thing that i'm looking to build with staff and the city is very much along

1:21:49the lines of nothing about us without us and by having those community strength relationships

1:21:55we can help you find the gaps that exist find people in communities that are maybe under service

1:22:01because we as disabled individuals we know our community better than some members of staff

1:22:08potentially and we're only looking to strengthen that relationship so we can help the aac serve the

1:22:14city better to serve this community better and as this city has demonstrated through its actions

1:22:19with staff our communications we've had through multiple people and chairs and vice-chairs myself

1:22:24included at one point we just want to help make things better by having a voice in that room

1:22:31we can help deepen community bonds we can help strengthen community relationships and that may

1:22:36open us as i think uh councillor busatel had mentioned finding other people in the community who

1:22:42may not be represented so by having a voice in that room and helping selecting members and helping

1:22:48be present in that conversation we really can help make this a more collaborative cooperation between

1:22:56us and city staff and like i said i really want to see us embrace that nothing about us without us

1:23:01because i really think by all of us working together by having voices in that room with

1:23:05different lived experience and helping staff make better informed decisions we can really make some

1:23:11powerful work here in guelph and that's primarily what i want like i said it's one thing i've learned

1:23:16through my indigenous side is we grow stronger as a community through talk through listening

1:23:24and yeah there's going to be some disagreements from now and again but we learn from that because

1:23:28confrontation can lead to conversation and that's always a good thing when we can talk

1:23:34we can make better decisions and that's ultimately what i want i want all of us to make better

1:23:38decisions for everybody to make guelph the most accessible place it possibly can be so i really

1:23:43hope that other delegates will speak to this as well and like i said i really think there is a

1:23:49powerful moment for all of us to have a voice in that room to make a better aac and to make a better

1:23:55city for guelph its residents and for those who don't have a disability right now but for the future

1:24:00as well i will thank you thanks a lot mic no thank you very much uh councillor roark is just

1:24:08going to follow up with a question to you thank you margith through you through our delegate

1:24:13i'm just curious um i've been on on boards where we you know want a constant outreach to people

1:24:21because we know we're looking for certain skill sets and so we'll say hey is this of interest

1:24:26and then we encourage them to apply through the process that exists so i'm wondering and it sounds

1:24:32like that was the case with you somebody said to you you would be great on this committee you should

1:24:37really apply so i'm wondering why is that kind of outreach uh in addition to a conversation with

1:24:46staff to say we're really looking for this skill set why is that insufficient um because i mean

1:24:55it worked for you and we also want to try and keep an open process so anybody can apply i think

1:25:01having a disabled voice in the room because we have a lived experience that you don't we're able

1:25:06to identify people in our community that you don't necessarily know like there could be someone for

1:25:11example when i go down to a sake a sacred fire for example that's a space it's not that you're not

1:25:18welcome in but you're not necessarily there so that's more expertise that i bring to the table

1:25:24that you wouldn't have and having a community voice in that room allows us to give you a more

1:25:28breadth of experience and knowledge and information you may not necessarily have have access to so we're

1:25:34just asking to supplement whatever staff has whenever they want to make or a recommendation

1:25:41having a voice with that lived experience that relationship with community is something that

1:25:46may not necessarily exist at the staff level we have the personal relationships okay thanks nothing

1:25:56further for you mike but we appreciate you being here thank you and then morgan dandy you're you're

1:26:01able to come down after mike now welcome morgan and uh you know the the drill i think here again

1:26:40just no more than five minutes the warning chime at four minutes and 30 seconds and uh thank you

1:26:46for being here go right ahead i never realized how much easier the world would be for everyone

1:27:00if disabled people were at the table until i accepted i am disabled

1:27:07as one of the first in canada to be diagnosed with fibromyalgia in 1991 i had been living with a

1:27:14disability and using an ableist mindset until i met some of the disabled community here in 2022

1:27:24after i accepted i am disabled i became more aware of all the things i had never noticed

1:27:33mayor counselors staff by having members of the accessibility advisory committee be in addition

1:27:40to the selection of its members i believe only good can come of it guelph and the county of

1:27:48wellington have begun to include my unhoused neighbors in conversations about homelessness

1:27:54responses and solutions and i believe by including disabled lived experience in the selection process

1:28:00we will only enhance our responses and solutions to issues regarding our disabled community

1:28:07this council is fortunate to have disability advocate counselor katin and i'm grateful for

1:28:14their expertise in bringing more awareness to various measures that have already been taken

1:28:20within the city my hope is that this council will recognize the value of having such a

1:28:27expertise now and how future councils will benefit from that no one on council is expected

1:28:36to be an expert on everything that's why we have staff to help you make decisions

1:28:43and i believe that we should provide the same ability to receive information from the community

1:28:48we are serving through the aac i'm so glad staff are so cautious and proud of our community

1:28:55staff are so cautious and brought forward concerns about all acocs having this ability

1:29:02and my belief is that the advisor accessibility accessibility advisory committee is a special

1:29:10acoc in that it's struck for a specific segment of the population which is one of the most

1:29:16marginalized communities in our city you know my friend kate would have stood here and stood up for

1:29:24the dis but disabled community because not only is it an equity deserving community but also the

1:29:31intersectionalities with our homeless neighbors are significant the concerns of staff can be

1:29:39mitigated by limiting the collaboration between staff and acocs in making new member recommendations

1:29:48to the accessibility advisory committee in recognition of the complex nature of disabilities

1:29:56and how we as disabled people are forced to interact in the world by providing staff with the

1:30:03knowledge of those with lived experience i believe we will enhance the quality of advice

1:30:09coming from the accessibility advisory committee which will enhance the quality of life for everyone

1:30:16and guave thank you very much morgan and is there any follow-up questions for this delegation

1:30:25i don't see any thank you very much for your perspectives okay it is back to us then

1:30:33could someone at least just move the six motions that are on the floor uh sorry that's

1:30:38that are recommendations would someone at least move those busitil and downer okay thank you and

1:30:45now just to be um aware of flow i think the fact that um we have the integrity commissioner

1:30:52available if needed i would like to concentrate any questions to the integrity commissioner

1:30:58on anything that's in the report that you need any kind of update on because then we can get rid of

1:31:04not rid of but we can we can we can get through that process and then we can go back to some other

1:31:09stuff um as well so uh galler you had your hand up so maybe what we'll do is we'll get um

1:31:16is it laura dean available is it just by phone or video okay laura you could join us you are

1:31:24hi laura thank you very much for joining us morning members of council thank you um so there's just

1:31:31a few hands that went up here i thought we would just get to your um expertise first so i'll just

1:31:37concentrate the questions on that we'll go with galler and then katin okay go right ahead uh thank

1:31:44you to your worship to miss zine um i wanted to ask about the recommendation uh specifically

1:31:51that in social media uh during a time of election um for members that maintain two accounts um in

1:32:00their in their election account they're not to mention their title so help me understand how is

1:32:07that workable if if uh if it's an an election campaign um and people are talking about their

1:32:14track record and they're not allowed to mention anywhere in their social media that you know what

1:32:19they have done as a city councillor because they're not allowed to say the words city councillor so if

1:32:24you can help me understand that and um and also help me understand you know which other municipalities

1:32:30have implemented this ban that people are not allowed to talk about and specifically i understand

1:32:35the logos the city resources all of that makes sense the only question that i have is that on

1:32:40you can talk about what you have done as a city councillor or that you have been a city councillor

1:32:48through you your worship and thank you for the question um the idea behind

1:32:54having the two separate accounts is is to ensure that when members of the public are

1:33:01uh looking at or on social media they would see that a particular uh councillor isn't um

1:33:10it comes from the idea that a member of councillor already has an advantage in an election over others

1:33:16who are not recognizable as members of council and so uh the suggestion is that there be a distance

1:33:23in the social media um from uh a reference to the position as a member of council and and that's

1:33:31just so that it evens the playing field but that doesn't mean that you can't talk about your track

1:33:37record it's more of an identification in the handle um so that it's clear that uh there's a specific

1:33:44um uh account that is is uh for the election and then there would be another account that is for

1:33:55you as a member okay okay i i appreciate that um and and to me that makes sense however the

1:34:02recommendation that came from your office to us said a member's title is not to be used in a member

1:34:07social media for election campaign purposes so if i am not to have my title anywhere then how can i

1:34:14realistically talk about so that's what i'm trying to understand uh it feels like the recommendation

1:34:19is not workable in the real world um so to this is there a possibility you know have you looked

1:34:26at other municipalities that have this restriction yes so this particular restriction on election

1:34:33matters um is modified from the city of toronto's uh code of conduct uh they have a policy document

1:34:40that provides guidance for election campaigns and so there are um in this we've we've created um

1:34:50approaches so the first approach of course is maintaining a separate election account

1:34:54and so that it's clear that one account relates entirely to election purposes um and and that you

1:35:02would have another account that serves you as a member um when you're interacting with constituents

1:35:07in the community where election matters would not be um discussed um and then of course there's

1:35:14the other option which is maintaining a single account um that would be subject to restricted use

1:35:19um and then in that case there are some more um specific guidance uh around how that would be

1:35:27managed okay i i i appreciate that now from from your perspective and i totally understand

1:35:34having a separate account or if you have one account not using it um for for the for the election

1:35:41or or removing instances of who you're for the election but i'm going back to this one sentence

1:35:48that says a member's title is not to be used in a member's social media for election campaign purposes

1:35:55okay that that makes makes sense to me that you're not going to to leverage you're not going to use

1:36:00the city logos but if i'm not to use the title then i can't say over the last four years as a

1:36:07councillor i have supported traffic coming policies because by saying that i'm in contravention

1:36:13so from your perspective if we were to remove that one restriction but leave everything else

1:36:19this is would that still create that separation i i think it could i think um it's more maybe just

1:36:27about the actual handle where it would say you know councillor x city of guelph um that i think is

1:36:34where the issue arises less so in discussing your track record in your history that is not what this

1:36:41is intended to cover okay okay thank you thank you for that explanation and i i think when i

1:36:48read this it gives me concern that any one that has held an office if they talk about it

1:36:54and anywhere in a in a in a video in a in a response to someone they say this is what i did

1:37:00as a city councillor they can co-point to this policy and they said in this election campaign

1:37:06you mentioned that you were a city councillor so you're in contravention so so yeah so i'm going to

1:37:13maybe be moving a motion to change that and i hear that the concern is that it shouldn't be the

1:37:17handle it shouldn't be councillor reelected i appreciate that thank you

1:37:24thank you good good question uh katin alt or rork thank you through you mr mayor um i have a

1:37:33number of questions on this so i apologize in advance uh so i personally have 4 306 accounts

1:37:42blocked on my personal twitter and 242 blocked on my council twitter so what is the estimated cost

1:37:50to council if i am going to be checking in with the integrity commissioner each time i'm confronted

1:37:54with bigger tree and need to block someone thank you for the question through you your mayor uh

1:38:00your worship there in this document we've of course suggested that members of council could

1:38:08if there's uncertainty refer those those questions to the integrity commissioner where there's a

1:38:15situation and there's uh you're you're not sure whether a member of the public should be blocked

1:38:21so the suggestion isn't that every time that action is taken a member comes to the integrity

1:38:26commissioner it's more to suggest that we are here so that if in the future a member of the

1:38:32public who has been blocked comes to the integrity commissioner with a complaint the member of council

1:38:37can say i have this advice from the integrity commissioner and then if a code of conduct

1:38:42complaint were to be filed the member is able to rely on the advice of the integrity commissioner

1:38:48so i think there will be cases where it's it's clear that you are being harassed you're being

1:38:53bullied and that can't stand and so the policy i think strikes a balance between allowing

1:39:00members to block members of the public in situations of abuse and clear abuse while maintaining

1:39:07uh an accessible forum for for members of the public to express dissent and so definitely

1:39:17members of council have the the wherewithal and understanding and contact with the community

1:39:22to understand when the line has been crossed and so in that case there would be no need to come to

1:39:27the integrity commissioner the suggestion is that if there are situations that may be borderline

1:39:33there's uncertainty the integrity commissioner is you know statutorily able to give that kind of

1:39:38advice and then members can rely on it and have the comfort so that if anyone comes back with

1:39:42complaints there would be no question about the the action taken by the member and that it was permitted

1:39:53thank you and so what would be the litmus test of the amount of harassment or language that

1:39:59someone like myself a multiply marginalized person would be expected to endure

1:40:04is there examples like specific slurs are okay but others are not i it's confusing because there's

1:40:12not a lot of specifics right and and i think that every would be decided on a on a case by

1:40:18case basis according to your discretion um and so you know the way that it would if there was a

1:40:24complaint that was raised the integrity commissioner would take account of the entire situation what

1:40:29was said in the context including um personal factors um that are unique to that member

1:40:36and in making the determination and so we would use a reasonable person test typically um and and so

1:40:47that would be what would guide the members can you elaborate a little bit more on what an

1:40:55reasonable person would be and who makes that assessment and is that comprised of

1:41:01marginalized groups or is it based on a law it it's not based on any law um but in this case

1:41:10that would be the standard i think that would have to be applied uh we don't want to get into too

1:41:16much detail in the um code itself about what would constitute um you know a situation in which a

1:41:23member could be blocked we have put some language in about um bullying harassment um and so those

1:41:32would be the key words that you would look to in determining whether or not somebody has crossed

1:41:37the line and and in some cases i understand that it would be subjective um based on your own lived

1:41:43experience um so so so so yeah i think what we've done again is is strike a balance where members

1:41:54can use their own discretion um and uh if a complaint was made then we would look to the

1:42:00circumstances to see whether or not um a line was crossed whether it did constitute harassment

1:42:06bullying abuse which would not be uh tolerated thank you and through the mayor um would there

1:42:15be consideration on things like different social media platforms that are no longer

1:42:21handling harassment so there's no real tools for you to report those

1:42:25within those or other ones that have rolled back protections such as meta on non binary and transgender

1:42:32people yes i would think so for sure where there is no moderation on a website and it becomes uh

1:42:40up to the users to to make those kinds of determinations then yes that would factor into

1:42:46the integrity commissioners determination as to whether the the blocking was justified in a

1:42:52particular instance thank you and uh through the mayor i was also wondering uh it wasn't clear to me

1:43:02on the the rules for personal private accounts versus um council accounts in the letter that

1:43:11was written up i saw that there was a clear distinction but in the code of conduct it seemed

1:43:14like the code was applying to to both um so i was just wondering in terms of the uh political

1:43:22opinions during elections are we being barred from having political opinions on elections and

1:43:29leadership races on both of our accounts or is it just meant to be on our council specific accounts

1:43:39so the suggestion that we've put forward is that um there's a definition you'll see on on page five

1:43:44of the opinion um where we've defined members social media and we have traditionally taken a

1:43:50very broad view of what a member's social media account is in such a way that there is almost

1:43:56no distinction between what is a personal social media account and a private social media account

1:44:01as long as a member can be identified as a member of council because for the public it's very unclear

1:44:07i think when they when they look to a member social media is this member speaking as uh

1:44:14you know my my my neighbor down the street or is this a member of council speaking in

1:44:19an official capacity and so for that reason we've always taken a broad view of what is

1:44:23a member social media and so in this case there would be some restrictions that would be placed

1:44:32on on discussion of um elections and voicing opinions in support of a particular candidate

1:44:42thank you and through the mayor um so this also would be applying to um our local boards and

1:44:49committees so we would be expecting all of our volunteers to not voice their political opinions

1:44:57on any elections and they also would not be allowed to be posting events depending on there

1:45:04there's a very specific area of events whereas i found it incredibly confusing because we say we can't

1:45:11post anything about events except events you know when you read it through and it's like

1:45:17just these local ones but not other things it's it's really unclear where the actual lines are

1:45:24meant and so um my question is um how can we expect any marginalized person to want to be a part of our

1:45:37committee or council or any of our volunteer groups if we're going to restrict their personal

1:45:42freedoms like that through your worship um this code of conduct yes i agree it applies to council

1:45:53members and of course members of local boards and so i i agree that it could place um some restrictions

1:46:00on um members of the public who would be used to voicing these opinions publicly um but the way

1:46:06that this is drafted it would cover um those individuals as well as drafted and so if there

1:46:13is some concern that it's overly broad for local members of local boards um then it could be looked

1:46:20at again but the idea is that this is meant to ensure that uh that the from the public's perspective

1:46:31um no member of council is uh or anybody that is close to the municipality in a certain way is

1:46:37exerting um sort of undue influence um based on their position and and so that's that's what we

1:46:44had in mind when when this was prepared and then in terms of events um yes so there is a carve out

1:46:52that would permit members to discuss events that they have attended ceremonies um and activities

1:46:58that are you know more relate to local matters that they have been involved in um while um

1:47:07not including other kinds of events that might be less related to the actual business of the city

1:47:16through the mayor so uh there is recently a bunch of protests against transgender rights and

1:47:25um there were counter protests for people speaking up for their human rights and we've had

1:47:32protests for the rights of people from Palestine we've had environmental protests we've had any

1:47:39number of protests uh my reading of this is that those would not be allowed to be posted on our

1:47:48social media is that correct um through you your worship i i don't read that this way um

1:48:00it it the code as as as drafted this draft it does permit um content that publicizes

1:48:07the members attendance at a ceremony event um content that will size of the members

1:48:13interactions with constituents content that raises awareness of local events and activities

1:48:18I think that would cover something in the nature of a protest so I don't see this as prohibiting

1:48:24members from communicating those types of uh um community activities to the public

1:48:33thank you very much and to the mayor so the the first two where it says we're not allowed to do

1:48:39these things seems to me to be conflicting with what we are allowed to do because it's not

1:48:48very clear or direct what is covered by the not allowed versus the allowed so um I I would I have

1:48:58some big concerns about marginalized communities and the specifics on this so I would want a lot more

1:49:09detail and clarity to to find out what exactly the intent is versus the open interpretation

1:49:16thank you thanks council kate and uh alt then or work thank you very much mayor guthrie um

1:49:26I'm struggling with this one as I do believe that a code of conduct for social media is important

1:49:32but I'm finding that there are tremendous numbers of ambiguities that are presented here

1:49:36that prevent me from supporting section eight in its entirety um but I want to start with a few

1:49:43questions and the first one is uh on page five of 17 section eight general first paragraph the

1:49:51members conduct on social media is subject to the code regardless whether the member pays for the

1:49:56social media account regardless whether the member considers the account to be personal or private

1:50:02social a social media account I'm struggling with that because it seems to me that if a person is

1:50:08in an election whether they are a candidate or a currently sitting member of council they are

1:50:14presenting from a private account and yet we are asking them to respond as if they are currently

1:50:22a member of a council and that seems inherently contradictory with page uh with what was said

1:50:29and on page um uh uh six six of 17 where a member's title is not to be used in a member's

1:50:38social media for election campaign purposes I'm I'm not clear on that ambiguity it makes no sense

1:50:46to me at all which paragraph takes precedence that you that everything is uh currently um to be

1:50:55scrutinized under this policy or that there that there are some areas that can be carved out because

1:51:02it's striking me that that if I were taking exception with any counselor here that I would go to the

1:51:07integrity commissioner and say section one applies this is on their personal stuff and the examples

1:51:13that I'll give are some of the criticisms that I've made of American politician Robert F. Kennedy

1:51:18people can take exception with that and they can take exception saying that I've stepped over the

1:51:23line I don't think I have how do we address that sort of thing and does that actually have an impact

1:51:29on my position as a counselor and possibly a counselor running for reelection

1:51:36through you marica three so just turning to page five and that provision that was was just cited

1:51:43um a member's conduct on social media subject to the code regardless of whether the member

1:51:47pays for the social media account and regardless of whether the member considers the account to be

1:51:51personal or private social media account so the idea here is the way we have always interpreted

1:51:57the code is that a member is a member at all times and so the the labeling of the account as

1:52:06personal or private is is somewhat arbitrary from our perspective because if the member is um

1:52:12making certain statements and it's understood a member of the public sees that and understands

1:52:17that that person is a member of council uh the member of the public I think is um

1:52:24uh it could be forgiven for thinking that that comment was made by the member as a as a member

1:52:30of council and so that's in the general section and then when we get to the the provisions that

1:52:36would guide the use of social media um the idea is that at an election during an election time

1:52:43the idea is that the member's title isn't used in their social media account for election

1:52:47campaigning purposes so they remember they remain a member uh in all times but um the the account

1:52:54itself is is not to be identified with the member as a member of council so you know members of the

1:53:01public will still know that that person is a member of of council but um the idea is that

1:53:07they're not promoting their title along with the campaign and I certainly understand that there is a

1:53:14higher expectation of a member of council no debate on that but the real problem here for me is that

1:53:21I'm not even clear right now whether I could put uh on a website reelect uh fill or whether that's in

1:53:29contravention if can I put that in without using the term counselor uh I would think I would think

1:53:37so yes and and we see that this comes from this these provisions are taken from the city of Toronto

1:53:42and that's certainly something that you would see on election signs within the city of Toronto

1:53:48okay thank you um a few other questions that I want to go through as well and and I do want to

1:53:53deal with the the issue of hate speech and arbitrariness um there are many things that I

1:53:58consider to be offensive and uh I would consider to be hate speech and I wonder how do we actually

1:54:05determine what line is crossed if I or if any member of council is being harassed for a particular

1:54:11view or a particular lifestyle um through your worship um I'm not sure that I understand the

1:54:22question if somebody is harassing me on my social media site and I go to block them because I consider

1:54:31it to be something that is both offensive and possibly dangerous what is the line determine

1:54:37whether something is hate speech uh or is attacking a particular way of life or a particular principle

1:54:46I understand so this is similar to the question that was raised previously um about you know what

1:54:50is the test and what is the line again it would be up to each individual council member to determine

1:54:56what that means for them um the code talks about bullying harassment and abuse and so if the

1:55:04comments that are being made rise to that level then there would be no issue with the blocking of

1:55:10that member of the public um so that that would be the test it's it's abuse harassment

1:55:19um

1:55:23abuse and harassment hateful insightful communication thank you now uh just related to that blocking

1:55:32somebody every once in a while just out of who knows where I get somebody from Australia or

1:55:38New Zealand or whatever that wants to visit my site and when I look further I discovered

1:55:44that there's something particularly heinous about that person am I okay to just block that person

1:55:50there's no hate speech they're not in the community I'm not clear on what my right is in that situation

1:56:01the way that this is drafted again we talk about members maybe justified and blocking users where

1:56:06necessary to preserve the utility of the member's social media page by preventing it from being

1:56:11overrun by spam bots or from disseminating abusive hateful and insightful communication

1:56:16so I I understand that what you said probably wouldn't be covered by this provision so it

1:56:22could be broader you know and I think it's about protecting your website your your social media

1:56:33you know and preserving the integrity of your your social media page if you believe that there

1:56:38might be some uh various purposes or or this person is you know inciting as as it says abusive

1:56:48communications then I could understand why there would be a reason to block that person

1:56:54and again the only time that um blocking is going to become an issue is if somebody makes a complaint

1:57:03certainly I understand that but what I'm talking about is that there could be people here who are

1:57:08going to be very very cautious about blocking anybody lest a complaint occur and we are I suppose

1:57:15the best way of putting it is in dangerous times if I were to talk about tariffs right now someone

1:57:20could take exception with that I might decide to block them and that might not be considered to be

1:57:25appropriate of course I don't know why we're talking about tariffs nothing's happened today

1:57:30the next question I have and it's the last one and I thank you for everything does this code apply

1:57:36to prospective candidates or candidates who have signed up to run it does not

1:57:44so would you be members of council I do have a second question then would you be of the opinion

1:57:49that we have a double standard there through your worship I I wouldn't I think members of

1:57:57council already have uh the upper hand when it comes to um elections and uh there's there's simply

1:58:07no way to apply this code of conduct to individuals that are running for for election for for council

1:58:16so no I don't believe that there is a double standard and just practically it would be um

1:58:23a real challenge to try to impose a code of conduct on non-elected individuals

1:58:31and fair enough I absolutely understand where you're coming from the the concern for me is though

1:58:37that we could actually see people who are currently sitting counselors being essentially

1:58:46well subjects of spurious attacks and I don't think anybody here would do it but not being on a level

1:58:55playing field and that that's a concern I recognize exactly what you said there is no way to to enforce

1:59:01that but nonetheless it strikes me as an inconsistency thank thanks councillor ult uh last is ororak please

1:59:12through you america 3 I'm curious it's clearly laid out in our documentation what the genesis

1:59:20of other changes are and I I understand the election one and I've always taken great pains to have

1:59:28a separate account and to start back from zero I'm curious about the general provisions though so

1:59:37there's the during the election how we comport ourselves but then the section on page six says

1:59:46uh this is sort of generally right this is all the time a member of council or a local board

1:59:53must not post the following content using any social media that at the time of posting may

1:59:59be recognized as the member social media which the documentation establishes anything could be my

2:00:05my linkedin could be my personal page um so you wouldn't be allowed to post content that

2:00:13promotes or appears to promote any third party interest including events product services or goods

2:00:19but my question to you is there are members of council who are small business owners

2:00:24or sole proprietors so is the is the intent that they then can't on a separate account

2:00:31they just have the same name maybe everyone's in a while they cheer on you know a policy for

2:00:36small business that they could not have a business uh social media account like and I'm wondering

2:00:45whether part of the complexity you can speak to this is that Toronto is a full-time council

2:00:50we're a part-time council um and it seems like the expectation here is really significant in terms of

2:00:57especially those who might have a small business and I'll have another question after

2:01:02through you your worship the the key word in this provision here is a third party interest

2:01:08so in my opinion this code would not prohibit a member from um discussing their a small business

2:01:18it's where a member appears to be promoting a uh a non-related um business within the the city or

2:01:26anywhere else that I think a member would run afoul of this provision so three America three again

2:01:33so for years I did wear and ward six and promoted a small business in the ward and at the holidays

2:01:39especially during COVID promoted shopping local by going in and featuring a new small business that's

2:01:44in the ward would this preclude a member of council from doing this or any member of a local board

2:01:52from doing something like that through you mr. Mayor looking down at the policy um so again on

2:02:01page six um there is some carve outs for content that can be posted as long as it's occasional

2:02:07voluntary unsolicited and otherwise in accordance with the code of conduct and so that includes a

2:02:12provision for content that publicizes the members interactions with constituents including local

2:02:17businesses and so I think what you're describing in terms of buying local and supporting local

2:02:23businesses would be caught by that particular carve out okay uh through you I just have another

2:02:31couple of questions mayor Guthrie I'm looking at um sorry and I've got notes and in a couple of

2:02:37different places the the definition of members social media um let's see I'm just trying to find

2:02:51it here okay contains sufficient information to enable a reasonable person to identify the members

2:02:58or current member of Gulf City Council so the reference in the handle name is not a problem

2:03:02the username not a problem the profile description or through content posted by the member

2:03:09so can you help me understand what that looks like say for example it's a a linkedin page

2:03:16or you know so I'm I'm really trying to separate out uh because I think the others are easy no

2:03:23logos no titles no handles no no referring through different engines but through content posted

2:03:32by the member so what I'm what I'm struggling with and I'll get to that in a sec say you're on

2:03:40the library board and in your content at some place it says I'm so excited that this vote

2:03:46happened I'm so proud to be on the library board and then later on you post something about you

2:03:53know this political party um has great policies supporting libraries like I'm just really confused

2:04:01about what the expectation is for members of local boards and members of a part-time council

2:04:08who wear lots of hats to have no intersecting content so I'm just wondering whether that is

2:04:16an addition to other codes uh that would be you know do you have to go through and then scrub

2:04:23everything that's that's in your even your personal uh social media content I'm really at a loss

2:04:32yeah well so this is provided as a definition of member social media and so it's it's uh the

2:04:41purpose of this section is to try to understand what might be a member's account and so uh if it

2:04:50contains sufficient information for a person to identify that person as a member of um here we have

2:04:57council uh then then that becomes their their account clearly um and so that the content that's

2:05:06posted by a person also might give away the fact that they are a part of a member a local board or

2:05:12council and so that's what this provision is intended to do is just describe when a social

2:05:19media account is clearly a member's social media account um and so um yeah I wouldn't want to conflate

2:05:29the content of what they've um I guess there's a sorry I'm just having a little bit of trouble

2:05:37separating the question between um sorry um so this is a general provision that applies at all

2:05:48times it's not election related correct so through you omega three it's in the general provisions

2:06:01right um that any member of council or of a local board would be prohibited from doing that

2:06:09and the way that we would decide whether they were I don't know a member of a a local board or council

2:06:17I don't know how we take off these hats when I go to back to my personal social media that I've had for

2:06:22you know since it launched um and in particular it's through content posted by the members so

2:06:30one could assume that throughout the city there are members of local boards and members of council

2:06:36who on their personal social media have said I'm really excited about something in the provincial

2:06:42election or are clearly a supporter of a political party let's used in the provincial election

2:06:49and we're saying now that those people who have not taken an oath of being non-partisan

2:06:55can cannot express support even for another councillor so in the past election

2:07:02there are councillors who supported their ward mate and so they would be precluded from doing that

2:07:08a member of a local board or a member of council who would know somebody who lives down the street

2:07:13who's running for council couldn't say they'd make a great councillor so I'm just concerned

2:07:19by the reach of what is proposed

2:07:29I will leave it at that

2:07:31okay thank you I have one more for questions thank you Laura for staying with us thank you Laura

2:07:36for staying with us I have one more well you might get some from me lucky you but but

2:07:42Councillor Busatel go ahead yes thank you and thank you to Councillor Oroch for

2:07:48raising the point that City of Toronto councillors are full-time but they also have full-time staff

2:07:53and I guess my question is whether or not section 8 was put through the lens of the reality of how

2:07:59we operate you know I'm sitting here and I'm thinking about the amount of documentation

2:08:05that you know for blocking a social media account that I am now responsible for retaining and

2:08:11retaining the records and so on and somehow incorporating that into my part-time role as

2:08:16I'm running around and doing everything so can you explain to me operationally when you develop this

2:08:25looking at City of Toronto versus ourselves in the roles and the time that we have to do things

2:08:33yes certainly

2:08:36this isn't meant to be overly prescriptive when it comes to the the question of blocking

2:08:41and so the idea is that members should exercise due restraint but there is justification for

2:08:50blocking and so again if somebody comes forward with a complaint that they've been blocked

2:08:57in that instance the member of the public who comes forward would be the one who would be required

2:09:02to provide sufficient justification for their complaint and I think a lot of those the evidence

2:09:08would come from that member themselves so we wouldn't then just go you know when we receive

2:09:14complaints we do quite a rigorous review and many of the complaints that come to us never see the

2:09:19light of day they never are even forwarded to the member of council we dismiss them and and so they

2:09:26end there in a situation where somebody comes forward with a complaint they would be expected to

2:09:32actually be able to justify their their complaint with evidence so in that case that they would be

2:09:38the ones coming forward with the you know their description of what happened in that case and

2:09:45so we're hoping that that would not be overly onerous for the member themselves because they

2:09:50wouldn't we wouldn't go to the member to say oh on you know September 4th you blocked user xyz it

2:09:56really wouldn't work that way and so the idea is that again only in the case of a complaint

2:10:03would with the question of blocking come forward and then in that case it would be the complainant

2:10:07that would be providing the evidence thank you so I guess from my perspective this there is no

2:10:17documentation requirement is what you're saying for me to retain records or a log saying you know

2:10:22on this day I blocked and so on I guess I'm struggling with the entire section eight and the

2:10:29conversation and the comments and concerns that I've heard and I'm wondering oh maybe after them

2:10:34the mayor I'm wondering if if we can co-section eight and and have some kind of an education

2:10:41workshop or or something on this because there are questions that have been raised that I hadn't

2:10:47even thought about that I'm oh okay I didn't see it that way but I do have concerns a lot of concerns

2:10:53about section eight thank you and your worship what I would say as well as codes of conduct are meant

2:11:01to be they need to have the buy-in of members of council of course this is your code of conduct

2:11:06and so these are productive discussions that are being had in order to ensure that the rules have

2:11:14buy-in okay thank you um so before me councillor Allt has one more question and then then then you get

2:11:27me and thank you I I hope that you don't think that this is a trivial question but it's very serious

2:11:33I have a Facebook account that goes back almost two decades is everything in that Facebook account

2:11:40subject to this particular policy again I think it would so that this wouldn't then require members

2:11:52of council to go back in time and edit everything that has been posted for the last 20 years and

2:11:58again this is a complaint based system so when issues come to light and complaints are received

2:12:05that's when the integrity commissioner kicks in and would be taking a look and so I think the answer

2:12:13to your question is it depends but I would be very unlikely that there would be a situation that would

2:12:17arise in which a member of the public would be making a complaint over something that happened

2:12:2220 years ago and I'm sorry I don't know how long you've been on council but something that was said

2:12:27before a member was even elected I just can't see how that could possibly be uh subject of a

2:12:34of a complaint that could be um actually opened or investigated okay thank you I guess wouldn't the 60

2:12:49day you get you get me now thanks Laura for sticking with me thanks council too isn't there like a 60

2:12:57day time frame though so if council are all 19 years ago said he didn't like cam I mean he's

2:13:03totally changed his mind now but if he if he said 19 years ago he didn't like cam and then

2:13:11like that's past the 60 day window right yes that's right however and usually the question is when

2:13:21when a matter came to the attention of a member of public um wow yeah when they were discovered

2:13:28because I'm just looking at the code okay when the events were discovered by the complainant so

2:13:33it is it is a you know a valid question but I think the likelihood of something coming to light from

2:13:38that time um that would actually be able to move a complaint forward it's very unlikely okay I hope

2:13:51I'm gonna I hope I'm gonna frame this question correctly to you Laura so if we completely eliminated

2:14:03every single thing that you've recommended for us to adopt if council the will of council would say

2:14:10thanks but no thanks would you still adjudicate a complaint using the code of conduct even though

2:14:18we removed the social media policy yes your actions would as members of council would it was it was I

2:14:28knew I was being facetious a little bit just wanted to make sure that everyone knew that even in the

2:14:34absence of a policy you're still going to adjudicate a code of conduct complaint regardless

2:14:42correct there are provisions in the code of conduct that would apply regardless of the fact that it

2:14:49does not currently specifically address social media have you heard of anything that's coming

2:14:57from the provincial government that may address some of this we had your colleague John here

2:15:04a week ago I think and some of the code of conduct stuff was sort of put on a balance a little bit

2:15:14deferred at this time while we know that a general code is being created across Ontario

2:15:22do you see any would it be valid for us to take a pause on even what's before us today

2:15:30to await the outcome of the provincial legislation on codes and see how that would reflect on the

2:15:37social media policy prior to the election call the province had introduced bill 241 and that was

2:15:50called the municipal accountability act and as part of that there was a suggestion that there

2:15:55would be or a proposal that there would be a standardized municipal code of conduct for all

2:15:59Ontario municipalities but that bill of course died on the order paper once the election was called

2:16:04so it will be interesting to see whether or not the province in the government now that it's been

2:16:10reelected whether it takes on this initiative once again so it's sort of a way to see for the time

2:16:16being to understand what the agenda is going to be for the next the next four years and so

2:16:25might just have to wait a little while to understand whether this is going to be resurrected

2:16:32okay that's fair and so now I'm just going to try to dumb down the questions for me

2:16:39so based on what you're proposing and I haven't done this so I don't think I have

2:16:49you're you're basically saying then I can't go on any of my social media at all

2:16:56and say I really think Bill in the blank would make a great premiere I can't I can't say that

2:17:07the way that this is drafted no and if we were again that would be up to council to decide whether

2:17:13that that is appropriate in this circumstance or whether you would want it to be modified in order

2:17:18to allow that kind of statement to be made okay I appreciate that you keep saying the word this

2:17:24is a draft or as you just said this could be modified by council but then I then I revert back

2:17:31to my initial question to you a couple minutes ago whether it's changed omitted like completely

2:17:37removed you're still gonna you're still going to judge us on what we say so in other words if I if

2:17:45we remove that complete section and then all of us can all 13 of us can say on our social media

2:17:51we think X would be a great person to be the premier of Ontario

2:17:58then because that section's been removed we're okay to say it

2:18:02I would have to take a look at the provisions of the code of conduct to see whether or not

2:18:06a statement like that would actually contravene it if it was written in the code as as I as

2:18:12drafted in in my memorandum then it would be clearly prohibited whereas if there is no provision

2:18:23and you would be relying on the code as it is currently drafted we would look to see whether

2:18:29there are any provisions of the current code that would prohibit that kind of statement from being

2:18:33made and I don't know off the top of my head whether or not that would be currently permitted

2:18:39so in in one case it would be very clear whereas in the other there would be some ambiguity for that

2:18:46okay okay where have you given this same advice what are the councils is this best is this best

2:19:05practices is this new is this kind of advice new for from you just to our council or has this been

2:19:14adopted elsewhere so as I mentioned this is uh take it this this was taken from the city of

2:19:21toronto it was a pioneer in in codes of conduct and there are other municipalities that have adopted

2:19:28policies for social media including use of social media during election campaigns I would say that

2:19:34most municipalities have yet to include these kinds of provisions in their code

2:19:39dealing with some have social media but you know less so use of social media during elections

2:19:46so you would be not unique but you would be among a smaller group of municipalities that

2:19:53have these types of provisions directly in the code of conduct but in the memorandum you'll see on

2:20:00page two I've listed this city of mississauga also has provisions for the use of social media

2:20:07as well as the town of caledon and

2:20:13city of greater Sudbury okay thank you where does my freedom where does our freedom afforded to us

2:20:22under the canadian charter for our freedom of expression come into play here like I just feel

2:20:30like this is such overreach to stifle each of our opinion I can't I can't get over how

2:20:41I I am not allowed to say something that I have an opinion on or I think is an important

2:20:50that like I can't say that I think councillor Busuttil would be a great councillor I can't say

2:20:56that I can't say the X person party would be a good policy I mean this like where where is this

2:21:05do you not do you not feel like this is stifling the freedom of expression under the canadian

2:21:12charter because I certainly do I I would disagree I think that members of council when you have

2:21:25uh decided to take the oath of office and enter into the public realm in this way there are

2:21:34different expectations that are placed upon you by members of the public and so this is meant to

2:21:40ensure that there's no undue influence that elected officials have okay hey we appreciate

2:21:56you I honestly this is this is a good discussion I mean I may not agree with a lot of this stuff but

2:22:02it's good to have it out there in the open and people can lean one way or another

2:22:07Dylan did you want to just jump in on anything that you've heard from a clerk perspective

2:22:13thank you thank you mr. mayor and to all of city council I think it's it's pretty clear from the

2:22:17discussion that you've got significant concerns about the current wording of the of the code

2:22:22I don't think trying to amend or rewrite that code on the fly right now will do us any good

2:22:28my recommendation at this point would be refer it back to city staff

2:22:32we'll take a look at it based on the comments provided today and bring it back as expeditiously

2:22:36as we can but not to council at the end of this month it will take us longer than that

2:22:41yeah okay I know that councillor Allt is willing to move a referral on this item

2:22:47and and and I think it's been a it's been a healthy discussion I mean this is what this is what

2:22:51committee is for right it's to throw stuff out debate and discuss and so that our staff and

2:22:57you Laura our integrity commissioner can can hear the concerns that we have and then look at it

2:23:02through a lens in a in a in a more broader sense to maybe look to see if there's any changes

2:23:07that could come back or not I mean it's it's it's with the advice of staff and our integrity commissioner

2:23:14so I think I'm going to go I already had councillor Allt indicate that he would like to move

2:23:22something now so I'm going to go to the clerks to put that up on the screen

2:23:26I just want to go in order of sort of how stuff is coming and then councillor Goller

2:23:29you're going to be after councillor Allt okay Mr. Mayor to you there's been multiple motions

2:23:37going around I think the intent on on many of them are the same I yeah that's fine we can put one

2:23:44up on the screen now and and if if council alt is in agreement then we can move that

2:23:50so I'll just read it out that the code of conduct for council and local boards include

2:24:12is attachment three to the report 25 20 25 44 be referred to staff for amendments to address

2:24:19concerns raised by city council just before I look for a seconder are you okay with that

2:24:25wording Dylan yes okay who would like to second that galler will second that okay it's on the floor

2:24:33we'll get back to all the other stuff but this is why I just wanted to get rid of this integrity

2:24:38commissioner code of conduct social media stuff first so just just be aware we'll get to that

2:24:43other stuff later I got a question from Gibson on the amendment or on the motion to refer sorry

2:24:50thank you it's a two you mr. Mayor it's a pretty broad amendment or referral sorry which I appreciate

2:24:58thank you councillor Goller I have not been here for the entire discussion I have been here since

2:25:02the motions floor and I'm sorry I have family commitments I do want to express one more concern

2:25:07that I came to dawn on me while listening to my fellow counselors and that is during the election

2:25:12there will be in my view it seems like there are elected counselors counselors who are existing

2:25:17seats running for reelection that would be bound by this code of conduct and then there'll be members

2:25:22of the public who are not elected what are they bound by on their on their social media platforms

2:25:29and that that is something that dawned on me that we're creating this the situation where we may

2:25:34have unelected individuals in our community doing whatever they want on their social media trying

2:25:39to get elected and elected counselors being bound by this artificial code so I appreciate it that's

2:25:48just one of my concerns that dawn on me while listening and I'm happy to support this motion

2:25:53thank you yeah I think councillor Allt might have raised a similar question there before just before

2:25:59I go to the mover of the referral if you don't mind it just to do have one extra question on the

2:26:04matter thank you councillor Allt through through to you Laura so what happens if a member of council

2:26:12announces that they're not going to seek reelection so there's a seven eight month a year maybe runway

2:26:20where a councillor announces I'm not running again

2:26:24and then they're they're so through the entire election a period period you know getting into

2:26:33the fall you know the time of the municipal election that councillor who's announced they're

2:26:38not running again says you know I really think this mayor would be a great mayor to support

2:26:43or this councillor would be a great councillor to replace me in my ward you're saying that that

2:26:50person has no right to say any of that kind of stuff because they'd be deemed under the code of

2:26:54conduct is breaking breaking the rules they would continue to be subject to the code of

2:27:00conduct for as long as they are a member of council okay all right thank you I'm going to go to the

2:27:06mover of the referral and then let's call the vote and wrap this up everybody thank you very much

2:27:10mayor Guthrie I think that I'm probably speaking for many on council when I say first of all thank

2:27:16you to staff Ms Dean and the office of the integrity commissioner for the efforts on this

2:27:21I think it is a belief of many on council if not everyone that there is a higher expectation of

2:27:28counselors that there's a standard of behavior that we as leaders must aspire toward and that

2:27:35that's important I think that what we have to do is balance out that particular standard with some of

2:27:42the nuances that were found in section eight that are not as palatable as we might have seen that

2:27:47we feel actually are an impingement on on the right of expression as well and can create a bit of a

2:27:54conundrum for people as as councillor rark said if you're sponsoring something in your ward and

2:28:00it's therefore deemed to be political by someone is that a violation of the the code of conduct and

2:28:06I think these are the things that we need to address so I want to thank everybody including staff

2:28:10and the integrity commissioners office and all my colleagues for understanding that we have miles

2:28:15to go before we sleep but we're going to get this right thank you very much so I'll call the vote then

2:28:22on the referral is there anyone against the referral okay great I've just been asked from

2:28:32staff at this time before we get kind of move our brains back into the other update of the

2:28:38procedural bylaw and all that kind of stuff just to have a five five minute break okay I think that's

2:28:45let's make it 10 okay I'm gonna make it an executive decision and make it to make it 10

2:28:50so before Laura goes can I just ask confirmation and clarity we don't need the integrity commissioner

2:28:56here anymore no member of council I just want to make sure you can go Laura yeah you can go Laura

2:29:02thank you thank you for the discussion yeah thank you very much have a great rest of the day to you

2:29:08we it is right now what time is it it's 11 55 let's come back here at 12 0 5

2:29:13okay and then we'll finish finish this this section up and can I just ask one question just quickly

2:29:20and maybe you don't have the answer but based on the referral based on what you kind of heard

2:29:23back from us could do you have an idea of when we might be able to get that that back is that is

2:29:29it's a a two month time frame a three month time frame and not looking for you to uh

2:29:36under promise over deliver over a promise under deliver but I just wondered if you have any sense

2:29:40of when it might come back through you mr. marrider members of council all aim for may we'll bring

2:29:46it back as quickly as we can I think that's a reasonable time frame to make sure that we can

2:29:50do the work we need to do okay all right perfect all right well we really appreciate it thank you

2:29:54very much let's see everybody back here at 12 0 5 thank you okay this is your 30 second warning

2:39:31for all my friends online okay I'd like to call the meeting back to order please and we are back to

2:40:23we're going to move our brains back to the procedural bylaw and and and and that portion of

2:40:29what is on the floor clerks you can confirm there was already a mover and a seconder to put all of

2:40:34those on the floor right yeah okay perfect um so uh councillor katyn did you want okay I'm sorry

2:40:42I'm going to you without uh asking but I think you're sort of the only one that maybe wanted to propose

2:40:49some amendments can I go to you now is that okay yes please over to you thank you if uh staff could

2:40:56please put the um motions that I'm moving thank you very much um number one that the city clerk be

2:41:05directed to review and recommend amendments to the public appointment policy in in consultation

2:41:11with the accessibility advisory committee to enable the accessibility advisory committee to

2:41:15provide input regarding appointment recommendations to city council reporting back to the city council

2:41:21no later than q1 2026 and number two that the implementation of the revised accessibility

2:41:29advisory committee terms of reference be paused including all recruitment until amendments to

2:41:34the public appointment policy are considered by city council and thank you oh sorry I had to see

2:41:43if there's a seconder yes councillor Goller thank you and you can continue you have the floor thank

2:41:50you um so I want input on the AAC on applicants and membership for the same reason that we have the

2:41:58AAC because people with a lived experience of disability have distinct and valuable information

2:42:04and I'd like to address some concerns that I've heard which are all valid it's my understanding

2:42:09that voting as a group must be done in public so to avoid internal conflicts I would expect there to be

2:42:15a process where people uh simply get feedback either on composition red flags specific virtues

2:42:23or various applicants and as the ability to provide feedback on applicants was one of the

2:42:29four governance motions recently requested by the AAC I imagine that they would be very interested

2:42:35in working with staff to create a process that allows them to provide information to council

2:42:41to help us make our decisions while respecting that we have a need for privacy of applicants

2:42:46and understanding that council makes our selections based on all available information

2:42:50and we heard this from Cherute this could be as simple as an online poll with questions about

2:42:56candidates or just a field to provide thoughts about each this method would allow members to

2:43:01give opinions to council confidentially so other members do not see each other's responses but I

2:43:06specifically did not want to be prescriptive in my motion because I have full confidence

2:43:12that the AAC and staff can come up with a process that addresses all of their collective concerns

2:43:18and while the AAC did not bring up these changes during the AAC reviews the option wasn't brought

2:43:23up by the scope of the facilitator so it really makes sense that it wasn't thought of at the time

2:43:28however they have since asked and their motion made me realize that we're missing critical

2:43:33information in our decision-making processes the lived experience and awareness of disability issues

2:43:39plus a diversity of opinion would complement staff's recommendations within disability circles

2:43:45there are some differences in views on organizations disability therapies and more and I know some

2:43:52people think they're fine and some people think they're akin to conversion therapy so I personally

2:43:56want to know about these issues when I'm selecting someone for a role to ensure that we're considering

2:44:01accessibility and being responsible to the disability community in wealth in the spirit of

2:44:06nothing about us without us I see this as an obvious point of inclusion for a group that

2:44:12centers a marginalized community the AAC is different than our other groups and they're not

2:44:17centered around human rights and access needs we made a commitment to equity and I believe that

2:44:22the outcome of furthering that goal is worth some time to figure out the process thank you

2:44:28okay thank you is there any questions from the committee before I call the vote on this amendment

2:44:35okay seeing none then I will call the vote all those against please raise your hand

2:44:42a Downer and Guthrie and O'Rourke and Busatil and Richardson and Chu and Billings

2:44:54okay so that fails thank you very much and so now what we'll do is we'll move oh sorry just

2:45:03before I go to the main the main motion to vote on I do want to just honor a request from counselor

2:45:14Klassen and I'm just going to read something that she would like me to state for on her behalf so

2:45:21it says here I want to extend my thanks to staff for developing the parental and pregnancy leave

2:45:29policy for members of city council I fully support this recommendation while I am not quite ready

2:45:35to return to city council meetings after welcoming my baby at the end of January I want to highlight

2:45:42the importance of this policy to the community I am pleased to see that the city of Guelph is

2:45:48committed to supporting its council members as someone who has always aspired to both parenthood

2:45:54and public service I am grateful that a balance can be struck between these two roles it is essential

2:46:01that we have a diverse range of voices around the horseshoe including those that are pregnant

2:46:06individuals and new parents although I may not be present in council chambers today I am staying

2:46:12engaged by following agendas and finding ways to participate in the ongoing governance of our

2:46:18community I look forward to returning to council meetings in the coming months as I transition

2:46:23into my new role as a mother last week I connected with the clerks to ask whether those on parental

2:46:32leave could be listed as such rather than marked as absent in our meeting minutes and I was assured

2:46:40that once this policy is passed my attendance will be recorded accordingly for the duration of my

2:46:47parental leave okay so we just just wanted to make sure that I stated that on behalf of

2:46:54Councillor Clawson and lots of heads nodding in the room so thank you to Councillor Clawson for

2:47:00providing that with that then I think if there's nothing further I'd like to call the vote then

2:47:06on the rest of the governance review and so I'll do that now is there anyone against

2:47:14no one Dylan and staff thank you very much for that and so with that finished we're going to

2:47:23move now just get ready staff just hear me all the way to the end we're going to move

2:47:28next into the infrastructure development and enterprise and environment department or yeah

2:47:35sorry service area and on that we just actually have a consent item first I'm just trying to

2:47:44respect staff that are here under water services that maybe we could look to to move that as consent

2:47:51I'll move it over to chair or work to maybe just quickly do that and ask whether or not anyone

2:47:57needs to pull that because if not we can at least move that consent and get our staff

2:48:02they don't have to wait around here so I'll move it over to you chair or to see if there's anyone

2:48:07that wants thank you Marica three are there any members of council who would like to pull this agenda item

2:48:14seeing none I actually just really wanted to thank the the water staff for their work we have full

2:48:20confidence in our water system every year I'm so impressed that our population is growing and our

2:48:26water consumption is either holding steady or decreasing I wanted to encourage the public that

2:48:32might be watching to be aware that the city does offer some water conservation programs for both

2:48:39residential multi-residential and commercial and industrial that really go a long way towards

2:48:45water conservation in the city so if you love water as we all do and you know we're a groundwater

2:48:50community please take a look take a look at those reports from our water folks and also

2:48:55participate in the consultation around our one water approach which is a new approach to how we

2:49:02manage our water and storm water I'm missing one wastewater and and and we're in this period of

2:49:11consultation now and so I just really encourage people to participate in that and to understand

2:49:17how those systems are integrated so as always well done thanks very much thank you do you mind

2:49:23if I just resume chair just to do to move the motion by all means yeah councillor oh would you

2:49:28be willing to move consent thank you how about yourself arorca as the seconder of consent thank

2:49:33you I'll call the vote then on that is there anyone against that report nobody so that's

2:49:40unanimous who from water is glad that I did that yeah yeah yeah all right because we are going to

2:49:48take lunch now so please be aware that we will come back here at 12 35 we're taking a 20 minute

2:49:57break at 12 35 we will come back and we will do the last two items which is the single use item

2:50:04strategy and the vision zero action plan so see you in 20 minutes thank you okay folks we'll call

3:16:00this meeting back to order we are now in the infrastructure development and environment

3:16:05committee portion of the meeting the first item for discussion we just passed before the lunch

3:16:11break we passed an item on consent that was the 2024 water services annual report the summary report

3:16:17and water efficiency strategy progress report all page turners that I highly recommend and we are

3:16:23moving to item 12.1 the single use item strategy phase two reusable containers and we're kicking

3:16:30that off with a presentation by our general manager environmental services nectar tabocopolis

3:16:37and our manager business and technical services Heather Connell good morning good morning chair

3:16:48members of council I'm excited to be here today to share an update with respect to the recent

3:16:53findings related to the city's single use items reduction strategy and more specifically on reusable

3:16:59containers as you may recall council directed staff to explore viable options to reduce single

3:17:05use plastics and wealth as part of the solid waste management master plan the plan recommended a phased

3:17:11approach in phase one single use plastic shopping bags and polystyrene phone cups and containers

3:17:18were banned as of january 1st 2023 in phase two council approved that as this past saturday on march

3:17:271st businesses must accept a customer's clean reusable cup offer only single use accessory

3:17:33food wear items such as utensils and food packets by request only or at solve surf stations and if

3:17:40providing paper shopping bags they must contain 40% post consumer content additionally council

3:17:47directed staff to further look at ways to to with respect to reusable containers staff consulted

3:17:54with the wealth economic development and advisory committee as well as local food businesses in 2024

3:18:00and into 2025 city staff spoke to over 200 businesses in december and january about the phase two

3:18:08requirements and requested feedback on reusable containers of those that responded to the survey

3:18:15approximately 47 already accepted reusable containers and 87 had responded that they

3:18:24had positive experiences with reusable containers staff acknowledged that some businesses identified

3:18:32issues with cleanliness health and safety concerns lack of sanitization equipment for third party

3:18:38containers procedural interruptions such as storage and space and staff constraints as well as

3:18:46operational process disruptions based on the food safety concerns staff have consulted with wellington

3:18:53dufferin wealth public health to provide recommendations for accepting reusable containers while also

3:18:58meeting the requirements for the food service operators to meet the food promises regulation

3:19:04based on these consultations staff are recommending that the council approve the recommendation

3:19:09starting to september first 2025 that businesses must accept a customer's clean reusable container

3:19:16or provide a reusable container either through their own business or through a third party service

3:19:21with noted exceptions for drive-thrus or food purchase for delivery as you know we have heard

3:19:27concerns and additional feedback from stakeholders with recent correspondence related to this

3:19:32council item and we want to thank those who have responded and met with us and taken the time

3:19:37to do a thorough review feedback is important and feedback matters we acknowledge their concerns

3:19:43and have prepared an amendment for your consideration thank you very much for your time and I'll pass it

3:19:48back to the chair thank you miss connell okay we have some delegates uh chris barnier of restaurants

3:19:59canada mr clerk they're online great they're coming through on video thank you councillor

3:20:12welcome mr barnier thank you um again i'm from uh i'm from restaurants canada and the vp for central

3:20:19region uh in the brief time i have i want to touch on three key points first is the troubled state of

3:20:26our industry that is literally being made worse today with the us trade war i'll speak to our

3:20:31concerns on accepting customer provided reusable containers uh and to the merits of programs like

3:20:37friendlier but their limitations that don't work for all restaurants um to give you a sense of where

3:20:42we're at free pandemic you would have had about 12 percent of restaurant businesses operating across

3:20:48canada say i am operating at a loss or i'm barely breaking even today it is north of 50 percent that's

3:20:55even before a trade war uh why is that well things like our food costs are up 25 percent in the last

3:21:01two years alone uh we have seen wages increased by upwards of 20 percent in the last couple years

3:21:07alone plus every other cost center in terms of customer spending it is down from pre-pandemic

3:21:14about 200 per capita uh and as we head into a trade war literally today governments are taking

3:21:20action to make the things that our businesses rely on to run their businesses more expensive

3:21:26and as consumers face higher cost in other areas they will continue to pull back on restaurant

3:21:31spending and we will see a lot of jobs lost in our sector we just can't take anything else right now

3:21:37so we'll talk first about the proposal to compel a restaurant to accept a customer's reusable container

3:21:44first if somebody wants to have their leftovers loaded into a container uh that they bring from

3:21:49home very seldom would a restaurant have an issue with that but if we're talking about

3:21:54compelling the restaurant to serve the meal into a customer provided container that's where we have

3:21:59a concern so reading through the documents provided the bylaw and public health guidance as we

3:22:06understand it relies on a restaurant employee often a team to determine if the customer provided

3:22:12container is of sound construction visually clean never mind sterile which you know you can't

3:22:18determine with the naked eye uh is in good repair and is suitable for its intended purpose

3:22:24which again leaves a lot of ambiguity where you put young restaurant employees at risk of coming

3:22:30into conflict with uh with customers um but let's say that the container does make it into the back

3:22:36of house in the food prep area we have again it may look clean but we don't know if it's sterile

3:22:43based on the naked eye it could be allergies it could be other contaminants and anything that that

3:22:49container touches could contaminate the next thing posing health risks for uh employees and for

3:22:55patrons the the guidance could be wash your hands more or use single use latex gloves thus

3:23:03you're creating waste in order to prevent it which is a concern for us beyond that there are other

3:23:09health and safety risks everything from burns to broken containers like glass containers that

3:23:14could create shards that could get into uh food or were arm workers um then there comes customer

3:23:21service standards in many cases the packaging itself is the portion control it's also designed to

3:23:27protect customer safety quality of experience excuse me and temperature etc um if you're

3:23:36introducing something like that it will impact profitability uh and customer service experience

3:23:42and speed uh during a time when we're already very vulnerable uh your staff also asks us about the

3:23:47possibility well can we just designate a space at the front of a restaurant where staff could

3:23:52walk the the food maybe in hot pots and pans or on a tray into the customer dining room area and

3:24:00we'd say no uh reason for that being is a table a two-seater table in a restaurant where it's

3:24:06premium space might be about 40 000 dollars in revenue to that restaurant they cannot forego that

3:24:13uh and imagine again imagine a restaurant employee going walking through with hot pots and pans

3:24:19and some customer trying to load their food into into a vessel um that creates a safety risk and

3:24:26and again it's going to be a pleasantness experience for the rest of the uh the customers there

3:24:31the other one is a concepts like friendlier which are again for companies who use them are

3:24:36absolutely great where there is where there is that ability to have a third party provided container

3:24:41that is reusable on deposit that can be sterilized for some businesses that works for other businesses

3:24:48and we do have some who have multiple locations including you know in in wealth um in Waterloo

3:24:54region where they are using it in some of their locations but not others because just the physical

3:24:59constraints and operating environments in the restaurants just don't allow for that uh so in

3:25:05short thank you council um certainly applaud much of what uh wealth is doing in in environmental

3:25:10stewardship this is not the time for this and this is not the right process forward but we do

3:25:16welcome the opportunity uh to work with the city to promote leaders in the industry wow that was

3:25:23perfect close there mr barnier sit tight i want to see if any of the members of council have questions

3:25:28for you councillor Allt's going to kick us off thank you very much uh chair work and uh thank you very

3:25:35much to the delegate uh mr barnier uh through you to mr barnier um you made reference to something

3:25:42that i think is very important here and that's the quote troubled state of the industry and you

3:25:48also stated quote not the time um so i'm i'm somewhat confused about how the troubled state

3:25:56and the trade war to which you had made reference and not the time uh fit into this are you implying

3:26:04that there is a time when this could occur here sorry what i'm saying councillor is is that again

3:26:15this is not the time uh just given that the state of the industry but the other side is is that what

3:26:20is presented right now has a lot of ambiguity um and it just it's it's not ready to go uh there

3:26:28this is something that is fairly no i understand that there is something in banff that is similar but

3:26:35not as defined as this where there hasn't been a lot of experience yet and um there are a lot of

3:26:41concerns being raised by our members out there uh so no rather than brush with something i think it's

3:26:49slow down uh and certainly let's have an opportunity to see what goes on in banff and other jurisdictions

3:26:56and we can come back to it maybe at some point but again we do have serious concerns about what

3:27:01is proposed here uh both from a health and safety perspective and from a timing perspective thank you

3:27:09very much um i'd like to do a couple of follow-ups uh the first one relates and i will ask staff the

3:27:15same question um in a um a letter from mr. court does it tell who is i believe on on the executive

3:27:24to which you serve um he had addressed the possibility of a pilot project as being something

3:27:31that would be worthwhile i was wondering if you could comment on the principle of a pilot project

3:27:37that would therefore um draw out the time limit more and would give us the data well i think on

3:27:46on the pilot project where you have something like a friendlier concept where you can um you know

3:27:53again where it works for some businesses uh you know do more of that where there might be funding

3:27:59to help uh more businesses integrate those sort of services i think that's the sort of thing that

3:28:05we that we would welcome and certainly a program that would um you know where restaurants cana or

3:28:12other organizations could work with the city to say if you're a consumer and this is an offering

3:28:17that matters to you and you want to find a business that matters to them too let's work to promote

3:28:22those so that consumers know where to find those businesses that are doing things that they value

3:28:27and that they believe are the right thing to do and the last question councillor work it's a really

3:28:33simple one uh years ago i worked in in food prep back a couple of hospitals and uh we were constantly

3:28:42assaulted with new uh new ways to deal with public health which were quite meaningful

3:28:47you made mention of latex gloves our latex gloves currently in common use in food preparation

3:28:55and food services i'll be frank with you sir i don't know the answer to that as a general rule

3:29:03but in some of the conversations i had with our members about this they raised the prospect of

3:29:09if i have a employee with strawberry allergies or if i have an employee with any kind of

3:29:17allergy sort of a thing what i would do to protect that employee is have them use a single

3:29:22use latex glove which they would then have to dispose and thank you again very much thank you

3:29:29also for speaking with me yesterday as well thank you for your time councillor and appreciate your

3:29:33questions thank you councillor all councillor Caron so and thank you for your presentation i do

3:29:43understand the challenge but i'm looking at other jurisdictions i know europe is well advanced in

3:29:48this area but even closed systems thinking specifically of the university of guelph they use a

3:29:55program called reusables and it's it it's again it's a closed system where it's repeat customers

3:30:01and it's on a on a geographically defined area but up to 20 000 customers a day uh where you swap

3:30:08you're constantly swapping your reusables within that system um is there is there anything in the

3:30:14fast food industry that your industry is talking about not just here in guelph but this is this is

3:30:19going to be a national international movement in this direction and so i'm wondering more globally

3:30:25is your industry talking about um how to eliminate single use um packaging from from your entire

3:30:34industry certainly um and again i do have a i do have a colleague who recently left on

3:30:41parental leave who really is a former more of an expert on this but i'll do my best councillor um i

3:30:47think you know we have uh there there certainly are things that federal government is pursuing around

3:30:52single use plastics that will impact our industry um you know i know that there certainly are a lot

3:30:58of things that our industry has done voluntarily to reduce its its carbon footprint on packaging

3:31:05there have been a lot of rules obviously on straws uh utensils and things that guelph itself has has

3:31:11led on including the recent bylaw um there also is extended producer responsibility which currently

3:31:17is above 50 but we are looking at that and we understand the plan is for that to go to 100

3:31:23percent and to include multi residential um and uh public spaces in the foreseeable future so all

3:31:32those things are there to incent the industry uh to try to reduce its footprint and we are we are

3:31:38seeing those things um again i i have i'll practically i have limited understanding of

3:31:44what is in baff what i understand is is that's kind of more or less two parts one is in that kind

3:31:50of park environment what they have uh or in the municipality is um if you go into the restaurant

3:31:58you and you order in the restaurant they have to serve your meal to you on reusable ceramics

3:32:05and things like that um but if you say i'm going to take my food for egg out then you can have it

3:32:13in the packaging that is uh call it not reusable um on the on the piece around the containers

3:32:23um them so the customer provided containers um my understanding and one of my members sent this to

3:32:29me just like 10 15 minutes ago uh and i'm reading from the policy that was shared said any business

3:32:36falling within the business license category of restaurants bars retail transportation

3:32:41and the other uh under town a bank license number by law 2210 must have in place a written reusable

3:32:49food policy that permits customers to supply their own reusable foodware in which the business

3:32:54can serve food or drinks to the customer so to me i i see that as very vague i don't know um i i'll

3:33:02be frank with you i don't know what further might be behind that but i think what is proposed here

3:33:07is a little bit more prescriptive that said still fairly vague

3:33:16council caron did you have a follow-up okay any other questions uh councillor billings

3:33:26through you madam chair i just wanted to be clear because in our report it says that 47

3:33:31percent of wealth businesses already accept a customer's clean reusable food container

3:33:37what i'm hearing you say it's more about accepting it to go into back of house i

3:33:43wear the food is cooked and prepped i don't i don't have access to the information that

3:33:52the specifics of the report provided from your staff i don't know what questions they asked i

3:33:57don't know if they asked it in the context of will you accept a customer provided container for

3:34:03um take for leftovers i don't know if they spoke if they specifically targeted friendly

3:34:11or customers so i all i can speak to is what my members have shared and our members are again

3:34:18that's going to be a lot of the mcdonald's recipes so all of the biggest quick serve brands and some

3:34:25of the bigger independent brands as well and as you know uh court front is is a national one of our

3:34:32national board members so businesses like his are our members and what those members who we've

3:34:38engaged with have told us is is that they have concerns with this so i can't speak to anything

3:34:43that um your staff went through or would have heard from uh from the business community otherwise

3:34:50i can only tell you what my members said but your concern is the reusable food containers going into

3:34:57the back of the restaurant where the where the food prep is that is where the health risk concern

3:35:05primarily is um and you know at the same time there if you were to go on a um i don't believe

3:35:14that this really proposes that idea to say you have to provide the customer with a reusable container

3:35:23that being the other side of it um you know if you're if you're going on something like if you're

3:35:28going down that road then that potentially adds a significant cost and i don't know what that might

3:35:34necessarily look like if it might be something like what um i understand pamph is doing but there's

3:35:40two parts to it there's the cost which we cannot absorb anything which is uh going to force restaurants

3:35:46to um go to and if even if it is something like a friendlier that carries a lot of cost and all of

3:35:53those wares have to be stored somewhere um so again a member like uh like court who i think by all means

3:36:00is one of the most respected leaders and sustainability in the restaurant industry in in canada what he

3:36:05would tell you is is i use friendlier in three of my businesses but not two because i just don't

3:36:11have the space or the capacity in order to make that work so i think what we're saying is is where

3:36:16you do have businesses who can do this uh and want to do it they should they should be promoted uh

3:36:22and people in wealth should know where they can find those businesses uh that want to deliver on that

3:36:29so then for you madam chair what you're saying is you'd prefer this to be on a voluntary basis

3:36:36yes okay thank you thank you council billings councillor caton

3:36:44for you uh madam chair uh so i think there's like multiple issues that you've brought up

3:36:51um and so i kind of want to tap them one by one if you don't mind um so the the costs that you're

3:36:58mentioning is that mainly in providing the reusable containers which are more expensive than

3:37:04disposable containers uh a number of different costs so there is the reusable containers themselves

3:37:11which are more expensive um if you go with something like friendlier and it is a deposit

3:37:17based system but nonetheless it does carry a cost for the restaurants to use those

3:37:22the other side is is if you were to have something where you're saying a restaurant would have to

3:37:28have a part of its business where if a customer says i want you to do load my uh order into a

3:37:37container that i provide front of house then the restaurant would have to designate space for that

3:37:43and in a restaurant a typical chair is 14 to 20 thousand dollars in revenue so if you're saying

3:37:50you have to designate a table where a customer can uh have somebody walk out from the back

3:37:56with their food and have it loaded into that customer's container then you're asking the

3:38:00restaurant to uh forgo probably two chairs each at 14 to 20 thousand dollars revenue so

3:38:07like 40 thousand dollars revenue a typical restaurant is going to be about two million dollars in revenue

3:38:14pre-pandemic it maybe would have made 120 to 200k pre-tax profit today it is lucky if it's making 40k

3:38:22so something like this could be pretty devastating to a restaurant um there also is going to be the

3:38:28whole element of what it does to slow speed and what it does where you're demanding that you know

3:38:35there's there's retraining of staff that's involved um costs associated with that uh and your slowing

3:38:41production which can impede the customer experience and can impede a restaurant revenue so again all

3:38:48those costs that they're they're multifold but they all add up in a time um you know where we

3:38:54really are entire straight in our industry and it is literally as of today is getting a whole lot worse

3:39:00thanks um through through the chair so that that's all assuming a very specific process right and

3:39:08from what public health has said and I'm on the board of health so I'm I have full confidence

3:39:16if public health says that it's doable and it's not a concern and we've got it going on in a lot

3:39:21of restaurants right now that I believe that they they have made an assessment that uh considers all

3:39:28the risk because that's that's literally their job to make sure that all of our restaurants are safe

3:39:32in that way um and they had mentioned having trays so if someone puts something down on a tray

3:39:39and then it gets moved to the back no one's touching the the container rather than the

3:39:46person who's brought it in so there's no contamination on anything they're using tools in order to put

3:39:51the food in there there's no extra tables needed for this because the kitchen exists if they do

3:39:56to go food at all then it's the same amount of space needed to do that so in that case wouldn't

3:40:03the restaurants be saving money because people are bringing in their own containers

3:40:07so would eventually offset so council I'm trying to understand so you're saying that

3:40:14the customer would have their their container put on a tray and then it would be walked to

3:40:20the back of house uh and then someone is going to then load their meal while it's sitting on that tray

3:40:28yeah I I um respectfully I I don't see I think y'all the same issues still exist

3:40:38from a from a contamination perspective I I'm not understanding how that solves it because

3:40:45you put it on on a tray um you know the restaurant still is bringing this container into the back

3:40:51of house where other food like you know raw uh ingredients are being prepared and it still

3:40:58raises concerns and you could still so again I don't think that solves the at least my

3:41:04perspective is that doesn't solve the issue um I think you know from a custom from if restaurants

3:41:10saw this as cost saving uh and if they could do it in a way that they felt was safe then they would

3:41:16embrace it but they're not um and again I think where you're talking about programs like friendlier

3:41:22where restaurants can do that because again the container is taken away it's clean and it is

3:41:29sterilized that's something that works but it will work for some restaurants and not others

3:41:35thank you is that all council caton okay I'm going to look around the horseshoe

3:41:43I have a few questions for you Mr. Barney this motion requires a restaurant to provide a reusable

3:41:52container I'm just curious to know how many members do you think right now already provide

3:41:57compostable ones I don't know the answer to that okay um my next question is we know we have producer

3:42:08responsibility in Ontario and that is requiring restaurants to be looking at all of their

3:42:17their materials reducing their plastics etc how are restaurants um integrating the requirements of

3:42:25producer responsibility they are they're complying again so it is uh basically it's you're asking

3:42:35restaurants to cover the cost of waste and of uh of materials that they put out so that

3:42:41absolutely does create an incentive for restaurants to try to uh do a better job and select appropriate

3:42:48packaging um that there there still are a lot of challenges about you know what people at the

3:42:54household level do in terms of sorting their waste and whatnot but um but again there are certainly

3:43:00a number of incentives and things that are already in place to encourage restaurants to make

3:43:04different choices and I think you've already seen the industry move move significantly away

3:43:10from single-use plastics to again recyclable materials but you know they and we've seen the

3:43:19movement away from plastic straws and from utensils and things like that and there certainly are

3:43:25things that that wealth has done itself that you know literally got implemented in the last week or so

3:43:32um and just my last question for you um we're looking as Canadians at inter-provincial trade

3:43:39barriers and trying to bring those down can you describe for me a challenge for a restaurant that

3:43:45operates in different jurisdictions that may have uniform standard operating processes or standard

3:43:51training what happens when individual municipalities start requiring something that is not sort of

3:43:59uniform what's the operational cost or the the challenge there yeah you're right I think you

3:44:04raised a very important point and that's why you know we are as an industry what we're trying to say

3:44:09is on things like EPR and and yeah and I sit on the uh on the Manitoba um body that is similar to

3:44:17you know what you what you have in Ontario for EPR uh and the goal is there to say national

3:44:23integration so that there is a consistency in the materials that we use and the consistency

3:44:28in the rules because if you have differing materials from jurisdiction to jurisdiction

3:44:34that absolutely can add cost it can add process and to the extent where we can have

3:44:39national integration or at least provincial integration um that helps ensure that restaurants

3:44:46can prepare accordingly and can have economies of scale when we're when we're purchasing things

3:44:54so I think to your point councillor and absolutely that is an important one for our industry

3:44:59if you have a national chain that has to deal with different vendor relationships or processes

3:45:07with having to integrate individual training and all those things that come along with those

3:45:12additional costs it does create challenges for industry so thank you and Inya that is

3:45:17an important point thank you for raising it yeah uh so my last question is do you know I'm not an

3:45:24expert I'm not a lawyer don't know a lot about franchises are franchisees allowed to write their

3:45:30own processes? I think as a general rule that you're going to have most of those processes

3:45:37would come from a head office again I don't have line of sight into any specific business but I

3:45:43would think that generally that would be the case okay all right thank you thank you very much for

3:45:50your time and your expertise we appreciate it have a great day okay um Mr. Barnier was our

3:46:00only delegate we have correspondence from Restaurants Canada the neighborhood group

3:46:04and a couple of things that came in through email are there any questions for staff?

3:46:10Okay councillor Downer I've got Mayor Guthrie. Thank you I had asked some of these of staff

3:46:18previously but I wanted to sort of do it in the public realm as well so first of all there's um

3:46:25not sort of an indirect insinuation that we're not we're violating some what it's some health

3:46:31act some of the health acts so if I could are we violating the Ontario Health Protection Information

3:46:36Act or the Food Premises Regulations? So no our bylaw would not oh through you the chair

3:46:42Councillor Downer I by our law would not preclude a restaurant for meeting their requirements under

3:46:47the Ontario Premises Regulation or any other regulatory matter for them okay so they'd be

3:46:53required to do that absolutely anyway right so um in the public engagement so what percentage of

3:47:02respondents to the surveys who were from the fast food industry because that seems it's a bit of a

3:47:09pinch point but the the we all only lobby mostly by McDonald's but McDonald's was the one that was

3:47:16referenced particularly the 47 percent number who are already doing this so how many of the fast

3:47:23food industries were actually doing this? So in our survey we had a place that they could check on

3:47:30the type of food restaurant and it was called quick server fast food and it meant to counter and

3:47:36further explained a counter with either a sit down or no sit down available and approximately 33%

3:47:42of the respondents said that they do accept reusable containers that were part of that

3:47:4847% so 33% of them were fast food quick serve okay okay and then so there are other communities

3:47:56that Banth has been referenced um that are doing a similar policy are there any other

3:48:04countries or areas in Canada that are also doing this? The only one that staffers aware of is the

3:48:12town of Banth there are other locations there is the city of Victoria that is doing it inside where

3:48:19inside the premises of a person's eating it has to be reusable container or reusable

3:48:25serving ware and there's places in the states that also have that requirement but not for

3:48:30reusable containers and do you know any fast food industries that are actually you know doing

3:48:36this voluntarily already? We know that A&W accepts their own reusable cups and what about other

3:48:46local or even yeah there is local groups as the delegation commented the neighborhood group

3:48:53does have it at some other restaurants the cornerstone downtown there's Lisa Schwarma that also

3:49:00provides them Farm Boy has a friendlier company I think those ones I can think off top of my head

3:49:09okay thanks those are my questions thank you hey Mayor Guthrie thank you I just wanted to follow

3:49:18up on Councillor through you Madam Chair just wanted to follow up on Councillor Alts

3:49:22question around a pilot project just was wondering what staff's position is on that

3:49:30through the chair to Mayor Guthrie we would not be recommending a pilot as it's already

3:49:35seems to be fairly common practice in Guelph there's already I think over 45% that

3:49:41are already accepting reusable containers so I'm not sure how much a pilot would you know

3:49:47improve that needle or yeah okay that's all my questions thank you Councillor Alts

3:49:54thank you very much for your work actually my questions were asked by Mayor Guthrie and by

3:50:00Councillor Downer but it led to another one as I was listening we have 45% approximately that are

3:50:06using reusable containers and one of the issues that certainly came up for Mr. Bernier was

3:50:12essentially a cost benefit analysis question do we have any idea of what the cost benefit

3:50:18might be for various restaurants are we able to calculate this or is it just beyond the scope

3:50:25I don't think we would have the insight into their numbers or be privy to their numbers to do that

3:50:31what we do know is when we looked at other subscription services that the cost for providing

3:50:38reusable container would be more than say like a polystyrene cup but that's already been banned

3:50:44and more than like paper container but it would be less than like a more sturdy type of container

3:50:51so I would say it's in the range of what kind of prices that they're paying depending on the

3:50:57type of item that they're using and there's also no cost for them to dispose of the waste too right

3:51:01so thank you any other questions I have a few questions do you have you have a motion okay

3:51:11Miss Connell I had a couple of questions so this motion requires a food like a restaurant to provide

3:51:18reusable containers does it ban them from using a compostable container

3:51:23so the bylaws contemplated is that they must accept a customer's reusable container

3:51:29or provide their own reusable container and it would be assumed that it was upon request of the

3:51:37customer so it's not preventing anyone from using single use items it's more that if it was presented

3:51:43by the customer that they're either accepting it or providing an alternative in a reusable container

3:51:49so I'm sorry I'm not understanding though because some places instead of providing a reusable

3:51:55friendlier container in their takeout have a compostable container that would go straight into

3:52:02the green correct are we seeing they're no longer able to do that because the bylaw says you have

3:52:08to provide a reusable container or accept a customer's reusable container so they would

3:52:14have to provide reusable container if they refused the customer's reusable container so it's not

3:52:19preventing them from providing a compostable or single use item if it was never presented to them

3:52:25to take the reusable container so would they then potentially have to stock both it would be their

3:52:33option so they can either accept a customer's reusable container or in lieu of that provide a

3:52:38reusable container okay so I'm I'm going to ask a question around enforcement I know that there's

3:52:45folks who want to make this more voluntary or soften it up or have different processes and if

3:52:52the goal is to have people reduce their plastics how how do we begin to enforce that like why have

3:53:00a bylaw you can't enforce through them to you madam chair in terms of enforcement then this would

3:53:09be complaint based so if a complaint came in then then we would have enforcement officers go to the

3:53:19premises and as per usual practice we would engage in sharing information and education before we

3:53:30start giving tickets to everybody but again that would be a complaint like this would be

3:53:37prioritized against all the other complaints that our bylaw enforcement staff get so that leads me

3:53:45to my next question why not then just promote the organizations that have this and consumers who feel

3:53:52strongly about bringing their own container or obtaining a reusable container we could promote

3:53:57those businesses and I would add crafty ramen to the list that was already shared because you can

3:54:03when you do your takeout order you can ask her for friendlier containers why not just encourage

3:54:09through promotion rather than impose a cost a process change well I think you're seeing that the

3:54:16restaurants that are already doing a voluntary approach are already taking it so it's would be

3:54:20moving the needle for more environmental sustainability for those that may just not have

3:54:24thought of providing reusable containers but yet also balancing environmental outcomes with you

3:54:30know economic and opportunities right and my last question is do we know those reusable containers

3:54:40the friendlier do we know what the rate of return is on those I've heard from mr. Desotel that you

3:54:48know people mistake the box for trash can and then they throw stuff in there so there's lots

3:54:53contamination there and then there's no real guarantee that those containers are actually

3:54:56making it back to friendlier for the recycling yeah we did speak with friendlier company I can't

3:55:02remember the exact number but I feel like it was around 80% or more but I can double check that and

3:55:09get that back to council okay thank you councillor Gullar with the motion I believe I would like to

3:55:17move the staff recommendation with an amendment as suggested by by staff a couple of days ago

3:55:24if I could ask for that yeah can we do this staff recommendation first and then I need a seconder

3:55:29councillor Allt will second and now you can table your motion yeah if I may table an amendment

3:55:37and I'll ask clerks to put it up but it is that there are two exemptions two

3:55:45sections that the new sections of the single use item by law one for self-serve self-serve

3:55:51restaurants like buffet salad bars and all you can eat restaurants and the other one is for food

3:55:56service businesses that have written their own reusable container policy and I'll look for a

3:56:05seconder to that sure councillor caton will second that and if I may speak briefly I believe that

3:56:16thank you to staff for the work that you have done you have gone out you have engaged with a lot of

3:56:22businesses in the community and and I think you've done a third job and as you said we have to move

3:56:28the needle forward this council has identified that we are in a climate crisis and I think we need

3:56:35to act accordingly and I think with the provisions suggested by staff in this amendment it is making

3:56:44it more flexible for businesses and I'll let them to write a policy so that they have to acknowledge

3:56:51that this is important to the community so I think there's lots of room for organizations to

3:56:57comply in different ways but I think it will move the needle in our community.

3:57:04Okay councillor Allt has a question. Thank you very much chair work if I could please have the clerks

3:57:12put the motion back up just a question about wording because I'm not clear and I think it's

3:57:18just the nuances of the grammar in B food service businesses written their own reusable container

3:57:24policy outlining specific and limited conditions under which this bylaw will not be complied with

3:57:31if you could just clarify what the intent is it's rather difficult a bit of a word salad

3:57:36upon even though I'll turn this over to staff as it was that warning was recommended by them if I

3:57:42could yeah so it's basically saying that a food service business can write their own policy on

3:57:51how they are able to comply with the requirements under that reusable container section five or

3:57:57where they're not there were the writing processes that would exempt them from those requirements

3:58:05just to follow up to staff I'm having some problems then because this almost seems to be

3:58:12contradictory to the notion of a bylaw that there will be some restaurants that are outside the

3:58:20bylaw because they're doing their own thing so we're we're allowing people in some senses to

3:58:27buy out of it with their own ideas is that correct is that what I'm here so I would say it is

3:58:32softer language than the more prescriptive language of either accepting or providing reusable

3:58:39container but it still allows the business to think of their operations where they can and cannot

3:58:45accept a reusable container so again I feel like it's still staff would still support it that it

3:58:51is furthering the needle but also taking into account the types of processes and maybe some

3:58:56burdens that that restaurant may be having thank you very much appreciate the clarification

3:59:01thank you margothry then councillor downer yeah thank you so much

3:59:07I just wanted to ask through you about sort of how are we how are we so I'm trying to move from

3:59:13the enforcement question to more like how are we monitoring so normally bylaws whatever they are

3:59:20they come back every five years or something like that right for review how are how are we

3:59:26determining the the uptake on this how are we determining that we're actually making a difference

3:59:32because there's one thing about creating a bylaw and then maybe not having enforcement tools

3:59:36there's also creating a bylaw and then not knowing if it's even working like then why do we even do

3:59:41it so I just wondered how is staff going to be monitoring and evaluating and reporting back

3:59:48to council in the community that this bylaw is even moved moved the needle at all

3:59:53in what we're trying to achieve to the chair to count margothry yes so we would obviously go out

4:00:00and do a first education first policy it could be you know it's up to basically we're waiting for

4:00:06council to determine whether you know the motion will pass but you know within a year from now we

4:00:11could go out and survey again to see which restaurants have implemented or improved their

4:00:15policies and then report that back either on our website or to council how they may choose

4:00:20okay so through you madam chair so did I just hear you say within a year you said

4:00:24okay on a one-year basis yeah I would say would a year after implementation okay

4:00:31and so did you need that to be within a motion or not I'm okay with not if you if

4:00:37you're if it's a takeaway and you're good and then how would that be reported back like an

4:00:41information report or even just an email or in a is there an annual we do the annual

4:00:46environment and climate change and mitigation report do you think we could start to see some

4:00:52of this data uptake and and and compliance maybe mentioned within that annual report

4:01:00yes we could put it in our sustainability report okay that was the word I was looking for thank

4:01:04you I used environment climate change I was almost there okay so I think that's a good

4:01:08takeaway then at least we can get some feedback on an annual basis on the uptake of this because

4:01:14that isn't that is that is important so okay thank you very much that was the only question that I had

4:01:19councillor down it yes so so I'm concerned about how much this motion compromises the original

4:01:26intent but I hear that staff feel fairly comfortable with this motion now and then and as our staff

4:01:34that are going to be able to assess the policies that the processes that they come up with for

4:01:40themselves too it'll be our staff that see how in how they can be out of compliance

4:01:46yes so it again it would be an education first but we would be going and asking for the written

4:01:50policy um you know or you know letting them ask if they are accepting their usable containers

4:01:55are providing it and you feel confident this will still move move us in the right direction

4:01:59in 47 percent is still a good number I would say but you're going to move this we're going to be able

4:02:04to move the needle even with this that is where we're hoping to achieve okay good

4:02:10let's see we'll see you in a year okay thank you okay any other questions from council um yeah I

4:02:21think I have a question um just to pick up on you know when you think you have a question but you're

4:02:28not sure anyways just to pick up on councillor Downer's question how are staff resourced if there's

4:02:36a complaint to go into a restaurant and to ask for their written policy and to assess whether that

4:02:42policy is good enough um my question is how are we going to how are we going to apply this and then

4:02:52will that bylaw person say well the restaurant down the street actually had a better policy the

4:02:58bylaw officers not equipped to know what the health and and and safety rules are that the

4:03:05restaurant could say we're going to do reusable containers but not at rush hour we're going to

4:03:10do reusable containers but not at certain moments so who is the judge of whether that policy then

4:03:17meets the intent to the bylaw so the bylaw as the proposed amendment is to provide a written

4:03:25policy um so it wouldn't be comparing whether one restaurant's doing a better job or another

4:03:30restaurant it's whether or not they have a written policy and that they're following their written

4:03:34policy okay may i got three you have a comment thank you and three you my chair just very quick i

4:03:46i am compromising right now i i was going to try to move a motion to take no action at all

4:03:54based on the conversations and what i thought were legitimate concerns from some of the operators

4:04:00um and some of the operators like restaurant owners that are local like to us uh so i felt

4:04:09like a little bit this is a little bit big brotherish a little bit heavy on the regulatory side

4:04:17but i feel that the compromise and where i'm comfortable is where councillor callers amendment

4:04:26has been placed um through staff giving that wording i think staff acknowledged it too that

4:04:33there's there's there's somewhat of a meet in the middle opportunity here um and then i would so

4:04:39i'm i'm i'm good to go um because i do think it's the right thing to do to at least try to

4:04:46push us in that direction so that's where i'm kind of hanging my hat uh but i will say that i will be

4:04:52looking for this sort of annual feedback uh to make sure that we are not creating

4:05:00an arena or a regulatory environment that is creating more burden and not getting the outcomes

4:05:08that we want at all and so i would love to see this actually become something that we can be

4:05:14proud of that the restaurants themselves can be proud of that the patrons can be proud of

4:05:19and we can kind of coalesce around this idea that we're doing an honorable and good thing

4:05:24but that it's actually making a dent in in why we why we've done all this and then finally

4:05:30madam chair through you um this is my second time maybe harnessing councillor clausen but i

4:05:36just want to give her a little bit of a pat on the back like she she she kind of you know push this

4:05:40forward oh a year ago or whenever it was i remember we were in kind of committee like this and we're

4:05:45thinking oh maybe we could do this and and so i think her idea had warrant was warranted there

4:05:51we've seen it through two revisions until today to the second phase um there's been a lot of work

4:05:57and engagement on it so i feel like it deserves a chance and uh so i just want to thank staff and

4:06:03thank councillor clausen um as well and i feel comfortable at least at this compromise position

4:06:09to date on this so thank you madam chair okay uh i was going to go to council all but uh dc al

4:06:16holmes wants to say something um thank you and through the through the chair to committee so i

4:06:21just want to mention in terms of the reporting um this is a bylaw that will be starting on september

4:06:27the first of this year so to get a full year of reporting is going to be september 2026

4:06:33and that will be after the sustainability report for 2026 you're actually not going to see reporting

4:06:37until 2027 so i just i just wanted to provide that clarification and we will also take back between now

4:06:44and council just the resource requirements what's that going to take to get that reporting because

4:06:48i don't think we've fully thought that through yet i think we're interested in we're interested in

4:06:52kpi's we're always interested in seeing how things um how things materialize after we put a bylaw in

4:06:59place and i agree if it's not measured it's not done um so we need to know that we're making a

4:07:04difference but i between now and and council we'll just take a look and see what it's going to take in

4:07:09terms of uh resourcing to make sure that we get you some meaningful results

4:07:15hey councillor Allt thank you very much uh chair work uh like mayor guthrie i am going to support

4:07:21this um i initially was not going to because i actually thought that the uh recommendation

4:07:26stood well the way that it was however what i think is really important about this is that

4:07:31guelph has been a leader in many areas such as the smoking ban uh which we went with baby steps

4:07:38until finally provincially and federally we have uh smoking bans uh if it takes baby steps and it

4:07:45takes unanimity of council to point that we're going in the right direction i would rather go

4:07:51with something that i think doesn't get me all the way but gets me toward the goal so with that i'd

4:07:56certainly like to thank the mayor and others for supporting this i i think it's it's a start

4:08:01even though i didn't entirely understand the language until you explained it to me thank you

4:08:07any other comments okay then i will call the vote on the amendment is anyone opposed to the

4:08:15amendment okay none opposed so that passes unanimously and i'll call vote on the main motion

4:08:25as amended um is anyone opposed to the main motion as amended okay that passes unanimously okay

4:08:38we move on to the vision zero action plan 2025-12 we have a presentation a trio of presenters

4:08:54nico conic transportation safety specialist Steve Anderson manager of transportation engineering

4:09:00and terry gayman our general manager engineering and transportation services whenever you're ready

4:09:25mr gayman okay thank you so much so good afternoon chair rick mere guthrie members of council i'm

4:09:31terry gayman the city's general manager of engineering transportation services and city

4:09:34engineer and so in january 2022 as part of council's approval of the gulf transportation master plan

4:09:41wealth became a vision zero city vision zero is a strategy to eliminate all traffic fatalities

4:09:48and severe injuries while increasing safe healthy and equitable mobility for all we are here today to

4:09:55present wealth's first vision zero action plan in this presentation we're going to provide you an

4:10:00overview of the action plan as well as some background information to advance two of the vision

4:10:05zero specific actions the expansion of our community safety zones and the automated speed

4:10:10enforcement camera program you'll hear from road safety staff experts who are dedicated to improving

4:10:16wealth transportation system and i'd like to thank them for delivering such a high quality plan

4:10:21for this community as you'll have noticed the plan is leading edge in terms of data analysis and

4:10:26insights the data tells a story of how to gain the best return on investment for road safety and

4:10:32the story is quite compelling vision zero is part of wealth's plan in 2022 through the council

4:10:41approval of the transportation master plan council approved adoption of a vision zero policy vision

4:10:47zero is also prioritized in our strategic plan and in gulf's community plan and since council's

4:10:52approval staff have worked to create a road safety team and the vision zero wealth action plan for

4:10:57safe streets which is attached as attachment one to the committee report the action plan was developed

4:11:03by the vision zero team with the transport within the transportation engineering department

4:11:07with support from multiple departments across this organization as well as from our vision zero

4:11:12steering committee made up of representatives from the city of guelph wellington deffern gulf

4:11:17public health the ministry of transportation and gulf police services with members providing

4:11:22messages of support which are written at the beginning of the action plan our presentation

4:11:26today focuses on highlights focuses on highlights from the 68 action plans with actions within the

4:11:32plan later you'll hear from steve anderson the city's manager of transportation engineering

4:11:37and we're also joined by our road safety supervisor dr lares freedman but first i'd like to

4:11:43introduce guelph's transportation specialist nico conan to present the action plan to you

4:11:48before we turn it over nico i'd also just like to recognize that there's members from the vision

4:11:52zero committee in the gallery with us today so with that we're over to you nico good afternoon

4:12:07i'm nico conan the transportation safety specialist we'll now draw your attention to the

4:12:12action plan itself the action plan offers an introduction to vision zero and its related

4:12:17safe system approach an overview of local collision and public health findings and a

4:12:23list of 68 cross departmental actions that the city of guelph will take to meet its commitment on

4:12:28reaching um zero serious injuries and fatalities on its roads here is a brief overview of each

4:12:35of these parts vision zero is introduced on page 14 of the action plan it is guided by the following

4:12:43principles no loss of life is acceptable on our roads protecting people must take priority

4:12:50over all other aspects of our transportation system deaths and serious injuries are preventable

4:12:56we have the knowledge expertise and tools to anticipate and prevent all injury causing collisions

4:13:03everyone makes mistakes roads should be designed to account for human error and minimize harm

4:13:11people are vulnerable collisions may happen but the impact should never exceed what our fragile

4:13:17human bodies can withstand vision zero is guided by what is called the safe system approach which

4:13:23directs our attention towards a new way of understanding and addressing road safety for

4:13:28example the traditional approach to road safety often focuses efforts on making driving safer

4:13:34using the safe system approach we need to instead consider how to make transportation

4:13:39safe for all road users the action plan introduces each part of the safe system approach using

4:13:48guelph data on pages 17 to page 38 here are some key findings between 2018 and 2022 the number of

4:13:59reported collisions in guelph was 9392 in the same period there were 1430 collisions causing

4:14:09injury in guelph resulting in 460 million dollars in cost to society these costs include

4:14:17health care mixed work vehicle damage and time in pollution due to traffic delay the total

4:14:24number of people killed and seriously injured due to these collisions was 101 of which 83

4:14:32occurred on just 10 percent of guelph's roads between 2002 and 2022 all injuries and fatalities

4:14:41due to collisions have decreased for drivers and passengers but have not shown the same reduction

4:14:46for other road users as you can see in the slide while only 12 percent of guelph's residents walk

4:14:54bike or use motorcycles for the daily commute those who travel using these modes account for 63

4:15:00percent of all serious injuries and deaths that occurred between 2018 and 2022 most of these

4:15:07collision related injuries occurred on arterial roads and finally 72 percent of all collisions

4:15:14in guelph in the same five-year period happened at intersections as did most collisions involving

4:15:20people who are walking biking or using a motorcycle the action plan contains a total of 68 cross

4:15:29departmental actions which are organized into the following eight focus areas plan better ways to

4:15:36grow identify risk protect vulnerable people design safe streets reduce speeds be data driven

4:15:49work together and finally learn together beginning on page 46 each focus area begins with an

4:15:58aspirational description and includes a few featured actions and relevant made in guelph

4:16:03solutions a full list of 68 actions along with timelines and deliverables for each are included

4:16:10in appendix section of attachment one starting on page 58 one focus area is to identify risk

4:16:20let us briefly discuss how we plan to do this documenting and addressing the risk of collisions

4:16:27causing serious injuries and fatalities is essential for the success of guelph's action plan

4:16:33to meet this direction the city of guelph created a new way to evaluate our roads called the high

4:16:39risk network introduced on page 48 of the action plan and featured separately as attachment to

4:16:47well high-risk network is the first municipal led map of its kind in canada every kilometer of

4:16:54well 600 kilometer street network was evaluated evaluated using known risk factors that increase

4:17:00the frequency and severity of collisions causing serious injuries and deaths a high risk network

4:17:07helps us prioritize our actions in ways that maximize impact and it helps guide 10 of our

4:17:1468 vision zero actions as a preliminary data set it is intended to evolve over time as more data

4:17:21becomes available and our efforts become show results staff also created a public survey to

4:17:31inform appropriate vision zero actions and future communication strategy in total 1021 survey

4:17:39responses were collected a summary of the survey results are included in attachment for the engagement

4:17:47report to vision zero actions the the action to expand community safety zones beyond school zones

4:17:56and to administer evaluate and expand the automated speed enforcement camera program are tied to

4:18:03recommendations number two and number three put forth to you today here is the background regarding

4:18:10the development of community safety zones and automated speed enforcement in guelph also known as

4:18:15as e highway traffic act permits a council of a municipality by bylaw to designate part of a highway

4:18:24under its jurisdiction as a community safety zone if in the council's opinion public safety is a

4:18:32special concern automated speed enforcement programs are allowed in community safety zones

4:18:38and fines associated with the highway traffic act violations are doubled in these zones

4:18:42in 2022 in preparation for future ase programs guelph city council revised the traffic bylaw to

4:18:50include 57 community safety zone designations overlaying every elementary school zone 46 are with

4:18:59school zones with speed limits of 30 kilometers per hour and 11 are in school zones with flashing

4:19:04signage of 40 kilometers per hour in august 2023 the ase camera program began operating in four

4:19:12community safety zone locations staff have determined that the presence of ase cameras

4:19:18encouraged a positive change in driver behavior resulting in an average speed reduction of 20

4:19:24percent or nine kilometers per hour while the city of guelph has directed the use of community

4:19:31safety zone designations to encompass school zones there's no policy that identifies where public

4:19:37safety is of special concern outside of these areas collision related serious injuries and

4:19:43fatalities due to vehicles are consistently found outside of school zones based on the collision

4:19:51analysis detailed in attachment one the majority of these collisions occurred on roads with high

4:19:56vehicle volumes and high vehicle speeds both proven risk factors which increase the likelihood

4:20:03of collision related injuries and fatalities in response to these issues

4:20:11staff developed a community safety zone policy seen here as attachment three to identify criteria

4:20:19to establish community safety zones outside of school zones and prioritizing roads with high risk

4:20:26of collision related serious injuries and fatalities in doing so the city of guelph will

4:20:32be one of the first few municipalities in ontario to expand community safety zone designations

4:20:37outside of school zones guelph's community safety zone policy establishes the following criteria

4:20:45a community safety zone designation is recommended for all primary and secondary schools all educational

4:20:52institutions and all major healthcare centers and hospitals high risk roads according to the

4:20:59high risk network that are near to a community facility such as a community center will now

4:21:05be reviewed for potential community safety zone designation the impact of the community safety

4:21:11zone policy will be closely monitored and reviewed every five years good afternoon everyone i'm

4:21:27steve anderson and i'll take the presentation home from here there are 12 existing school zones

4:21:34with flashing 40 kilometer an hour speed limits in effect during school arrival and dismissal time

4:21:40province of ontario does not permit automated speed enforcement operation within these flashing

4:21:4540 kilometer an hour zones as these school zones around arterial roadways which are proven to have

4:21:51higher risk staff propose to convert all flashing 40 kilometer an hour zones to static 24 hours a

4:21:58day seven days a week 40 kilometer an hour speed zones once approved by mayor and council all 40

4:22:05kilometer an hour school zones will be converted to static 40 kilometer an hour school zones during

4:22:11july and august 2025 while school is out we will then give one full year to allow for driver behavior

4:22:19changes before any of these zones will have an automated speed enforcement camera implemented

4:22:26these zones will therefore be eligible for an automated camera beginning the 2026 2027 school

4:22:33year the expansion to 12 cameras was noted in the 2023 budget approval and operationalized as a

4:22:44base budget item during the 2025 budget the asc program is expanding from our four cameras to

4:22:5112 cameras beginning august 1st 2025 the measures of effectiveness of our automated programs is clear

4:23:00although today we're talking specifically about asc it's worth noting we're seeing a 10 times

4:23:07societal return on our investment that's 40 million dollars in societal cost savings

4:23:13from our red light camera program through just the first three years of operation with our asc

4:23:20program we are seeing a decrease in operating speeds in our school zone and that reduction

4:23:25remains even after the camera leaves studies 60 days after the removal of the camera still finds a

4:23:3314 percent reduction in speeds from before the camera began operating in 2025 our daily operating

4:23:43rates to the vendor have decreased in q3 2025 the court system will be switching from the POA system

4:23:51to the administrative penalty system and that will be beneficial by making court costs more

4:23:56efficient these two factors project to see an increase in funds coming back to the city of

4:24:02gulf to benefit funding for future road safety work currently the city operates four mobile

4:24:10asc cameras that rotate through existing school zones every three months by the end of the 2024

4:24:172025 school year so that's right now an asc camera will be placed in each elementary school

4:24:24zone where it is feasible to do so for the 2025 2025 or 2026 school year the 12 asc cameras will

4:24:34continue to rotate through elementary school zones on non-arterial roads either on a four or six month

4:24:41rotation in august 2026 locations that have a new community safety zone or had a flashing 40 kilometer

4:24:51an hour speed limit replaced with a 24 740 k speed limit will be eligible for asc staff will use a

4:24:59combination of mobile semi permanent and permanent cameras our asc program will focus on roadways

4:25:07with combinations of high operating speeds high injury collision history and likelihood of continued

4:25:14high injury related collisions and high vulnerable road users the deployment using a combination

4:25:21of camera types will broaden the coverage area to the city thereby increasing the likelihood of

4:25:26drivers obeying posted speed limits staff will continue to monitor the effectiveness of the

4:25:33asc program to ensure it continues to achieve its goal of reducing speeds and injury severity on our

4:25:40roadway we know the program is contentious however it has proven to be an extremely effective tool

4:25:49in our road safety toolbox okay you've heard a lot of about plans to improve road safety

4:25:59so what are we asking for in terms of money well i'm happy to say there are no direct

4:26:04financial implications associated with the approval of the action plan any additional

4:26:11investments in road safety beyond today's action plan will be presented for council

4:26:17consideration during future budget cycles i'd like to just correct the wording on this slide

4:26:23and confirm all all 68 of the actions are already in the improved approved in the city's forecasted

4:26:30capital plan in our operating budgets and of course we know the budget sets the pace for our work

4:26:37of the 68 actions 53 are already embedded into our daily staff work plans the remaining 15 actions

4:26:46the remaining 15 are actions related to capital projects

4:26:51the vision zero action plan items tied to capital projects are small pieces related to

4:26:55bigger capital projects for example we may install more concrete than asphalt to tighten up a curb

4:27:02radius thereby having a minimal impact on the overall project cost it's difficult to give an

4:27:09exact number at this time as detailed design work is still ahead of us but i reiterate the impact to

4:27:15capital budgets is minimal there is also a dedicated capital budget tf 0037 for standalone

4:27:23road safety items there is no additional tax support funding required in approval of this plan

4:27:32additionally the transportation reserve fund is also available for projects related to road safety

4:27:37the proposed expansion of the a sc program beginning in august 2025 continues to be

4:27:43budgeted to be revenue neutral if any additional revenues are generated from our automated programs

4:27:49they will be allocated to the transportation reserve fund in closing today is the most recent

4:27:57step in our journey as noted on page 13 of the action plan just a few highlights from the introduction

4:28:05of our first traffic condom policy 27 years ago through the creation of our adult school

4:28:11crossing our program the adoption of the community road safety strategy the investment in our road

4:28:16safety staffing the introduction of automated enforcement programs the adoption of vision zero

4:28:23as part of the tmp and now today we're excited to present our first action plan on vision zero

4:28:30a guiding document for our community and council to reference as we strive to improve the safety

4:28:36of all road users in our community our investments are bearing fruit severe and fatal injury

4:28:43collision trends are decreasing operating speeds are decreasing but there's still more work to be

4:28:50done we will continue to strive towards our goal of zero severe or fatal injury related collisions

4:28:59on our roadway and with that we have three recommendations before you on the floor that

4:29:05are shown on the screen thank you thank you very much okay stay tuned for some council questions

4:29:14who wants to go first council boosetel oh yes sorry go to delegates yeah all right i jumped the gun

4:29:26we have delegates uh three delegates the first one being charles castillo my video conference

4:29:36great okay sorry is it mr castillo yeah oh yes sorry i'd cut out when you called the name so i wasn't

4:29:59sure if it was me okay so welcome to gulf city council our meeting about vision zero you'll have

4:30:04five minutes for your delegation you'll hear a chime when you have 30 seconds remaining okay okay

4:30:10so and when you're ready okay um so um i was sitting in my office working a few months ago

4:30:19after dropping off my kid at school and the house started rumbling uh sometimes planes fly low and

4:30:24that can rumble the house a little but this one was noticeably stronger i thought a plane must be

4:30:29flying lower than usual and and didn't think much of it but a few hours later my phone started buzzing

4:30:36and it turns out a parent from our school one of my son's classmates was hit by a car and that

4:30:42rumbling was the sound of an orange air helicopter landing in the park a couple blocks away i saw the

4:30:48news that uh someone was hit uh that was this incident and it wasn't fatal uh and that got me

4:30:55thinking like what does not fatal mean losing an arm isn't fatal a lifetime of chronic pain

4:31:01isn't fatal and losing your ability to earn an income isn't fatal imagine reaching your retirement

4:31:10age and looking forward to playing tennis every day but within a couple of years of your retirement

4:31:15day a car crash results in an injury to your rotator cuff that prevents you from raising your arm

4:31:20above your head uh that one happened to my father and uh yeah he doesn't play tennis that much anymore

4:31:28it's it's uh pickleball now um you can ask anyone and they'll tell you how drivers are terrible and

4:31:37pedestrians don't care about their own life and you know everybody has their own opinions

4:31:42uh i work as a software developer and the most successful teams i've worked on i've worked with

4:31:50we have a no-blame system if something went wrong we we don't point fingers or name names we identify

4:31:57where the process broke down or what was wrong in our design and and we identify different ways we

4:32:03can fix it uh in other words it's not about individuals it's about the system and this

4:32:10kind of system approach has improved safety in other industries uh the aviation industry is famously

4:32:16much more safer than our roadways um the professionals know this and the principles behind vision zero

4:32:27adopt this approach uh this weekend i i had an errand and i wanted to run down town but i didn't

4:32:36feel safe taking my youngest with me on my bike i knew we'd be fine we've we've done it before

4:32:41there's a trail that goes close to my house and close to downtown but um that day thinking about

4:32:48all the little barriers we have to cross it didn't feel safe so we stayed home and that's a kind of

4:32:55scenario that comes up all the time especially in the winter because we're a one-car family

4:33:00and the non-motorized infrastructure in this city is frankly kind of trash

4:33:07uh it's incredibly frustrating but being a one-car family um gives us

4:33:15a level of economic freedom so i'm i'm going to keep it up

4:33:19um the average cost of a car according to rate hub uh is now apparently over 16 000 a year

4:33:29which kind of blows my mind um let's take out the luxury cars and all that stuff from that and

4:33:34let's call it eight thousand dollars a year um that's eight thousand dollars a year on something

4:33:39that will turn into junk in just over 12 years is is the average these days if you're if you have

4:33:45good maintenance if you're lucky and here we are in the middle of an affordability crisis

4:33:51and day one of a terrafore um that's a lot of money uh that people have to spend

4:33:58um looking at the planning better ways to grow protecting vulnerable people

4:34:03just two themes in the vision zero plan um the city of guelph can offer some relief to people

4:34:09who aren't as hard-headed as me and being one-car family making streets safer could save many families

4:34:16thousands of dollars uh if they feel safe enough to forgo the extra vehicle and that's not to mention

4:34:21the cost of car on car collisions um but that's not going to happen as long as we keep hearing about

4:34:28people getting hit while they're on their bikes or crossing the streets or walking through a parking

4:34:32lot some people will say that injuries on the road are the price we pay for having freedom of

4:34:39movement and a good economy uh a necessary evil they'll call it it's easy to find excuses in opposition

4:34:46to this plan uh it'll cost too much money emergency response times will be too slow fire trucks

4:34:52can't fit through you know narrowed lanes or what have you or um some people also claim

4:34:59you're trying to create an open-air prison these are not serious blockers to this proposal

4:35:05there are valid points um these things can be managed mitigated or solved

4:35:14if any of your constituents brings okay mr. kestio thank you for your excellent delegation

4:35:22i'm going to look around and see if there are any members of council okay councillor Goller has a

4:35:26question for you uh thank you and through you uh chair roark uh to mr. kestio just wanted to

4:35:32to make sure that i understood um you're supporting vision zero are there any requests for changes or

4:35:39or um any different than what staff is recommending no it was a lot right i think there were 68 action

4:35:46items i didn't see anything too specific i mean i i'm more i'm more concerned about the like changing

4:35:55the environment things like narrowing lanes uh bulb outs to make crossings easier uh a big thing

4:36:02that i didn't talk about was it was really brought to light when i had kids um the the time it takes

4:36:09to cross the streets like i i i think i sent an email to city staff at the time like the the average

4:36:16a walk speed for like the elderly and kids is something like just under a meter or a second

4:36:23and the lights were timed for a walk speed over that so it didn't like it was baked in that it

4:36:28didn't have time enough for people to cross the streets and you know stuff like that is really

4:36:32frustrating and i don't see that those kind of details there but i would i would hope that

4:36:38those are the kind of details that you'd focus on and prioritize with this new approach thank you

4:36:44for that thank you chair okay any other questions for mr. kestio saying none thank you very much

4:36:50for your delegation have a great day thank you okay our next delegation is matt bolson also by

4:36:57video conference here we go okay hi mr. olson i'm chair auror you'll have 30 sorry you'll have five

4:37:16minutes for your delegation after when you have 30 seconds left you'll hear a chime and then once

4:37:22you're done stick around because there might be questions for members of council good afternoon

4:37:27everyone my name is matt olson and i'm here today as a parent and a proud member of family of six

4:37:32who relies entirely on cycling and public transportation to get around our great city of

4:37:37guelph for us safe streets aren't just a policy goal they shape every aspect of our daily lives

4:37:43so i'm here to represent all of them and to express our full support for vision zero vision zero is

4:37:49based on a simple but powerful idea that no loss of life on our roads is acceptable as a family we

4:37:56feel this really deeply every time we ride our bike to school to work grocery store we we face risks

4:38:02that no one should have to accept as just part of the system parents shouldn't have to wonder if

4:38:06their kids will make it safely across the crosswalk seniors should feel safe walking to the bus stop

4:38:11and cyclists whether you're eight or you're eighty shouldn't have to gamble with their lives just to

4:38:15get where they need to go as a family that sold our cars and stopped driving five years ago we see

4:38:21firsthand where guelph is doing well and where it can improve we appreciate the city's investments

4:38:26in active transportation but we also know the challenges we see the sidewalks that just end

4:38:31we know which roads are heavily traveled where protected lanes are located and which intersections

4:38:35to avoid at all costs i've had closed cars with cars on clear fields on the bike a road that doesn't

4:38:42have a lot of traffic calming measures in it gordon street is always a nightmare for us to go down

4:38:48two very different roads but both are heavily traveled and they lack the kind of safe cycling

4:38:52infrastructure that would make riding feel truly secure one of the scariest moments we had uh was

4:38:58last year at the intersection of gordon and clear road where a bike stroller was actually hit while

4:39:01we were crossing we were waiting to cross the crosswalk waited for our turn on coming cars and

4:39:07we still ended up being hit in the stroller being destroyed because the driver wasn't paying

4:39:11attention as he was turning thankfully no one was injured but it was a terrifying reminder of how

4:39:16vulnerable we are when drivers aren't paying attention and when intersections aren't designed

4:39:19with cyclists and pedestrians in mind for us these aren't minor inconveniences they determine

4:39:24whether we can get to school on time whether we can visit friends and whether our kids can grow up

4:39:28feeling independent and confident in our city vision zero isn't just about bike lanes it's about

4:39:33designing a city that works for everyone that means lower speed limits for people to walk and

4:39:37cycle safer intersections and protected bike infrastructure it means investing in transit so

4:39:42taking the bus is a real reliable alternative to driving other cities that commit to vision zero

4:39:46see fewer crashes fewer industries and fewer tragedies they also see a stronger community

4:39:51better air quality and more vibrant streets wealth has the chance to be a leader in making

4:39:56transportation safer and i urge the city to take bold steps towards this vision as a family we don't

4:40:01take safety for granted every day we make choices about where and how we travel based on what feels

4:40:06safe but safety shouldn't be a privilege it should be given i urge the city to keep pushing forward

4:40:11with vision zero because no one should have to risk their life just to get where they need to go

4:40:15thank you very much thank you mr olson hang on we'll see if we can get uh any questions for you

4:40:21nope it was clear as day thank you very much for your delegation thank you wonderful day yep

4:40:28just before we go to our next delegate i'm just wondering if mr anderson wants to address the

4:40:34comment about um not having enough time to cross the road i'm just i just want any sort of allegations

4:40:42to be corrected in the moment if we can uh thanks jarrow work for the opportunity to comment on that

4:40:51right now the provincial recommendation for traffic signal walking speed is 1.2 meters per

4:40:57second the golf standard is one meter per second but there are areas where we know like around the

4:41:03evergreen center for instance where we have higher concentrations of pedestrians that may require

4:41:08more time we use 0.8 meters per second to get across the street so and um i'm happy to say that we

4:41:17have a full traffic signal team staffed up again and that's one of the things in our work plan this

4:41:21year is to continue to review those walk times and make sure we're doing what we need to do to protect

4:41:28our road users perfect thanks very much and i'll call our last delegate uh andrea a bit good please

4:41:36she's with the golf coalition for active transportation welcome so you've been here before

4:41:46you know you have five minutes you'll hear a chime when you have 30 seconds left okay uh good afternoon

4:41:52council and mayor uh today i'm not just here as the chair of the golf coalition for active

4:41:59transportation but as someone who has lived the consequences of our unsafe streets i'm here today

4:42:06to voice my strong support for city staff's recommendations on the vision zero action plan

4:42:12the action plan is not just a recommendation it is a necessary response to a growing crisis

4:42:20in 2021 i was struck as a cyclist in a right hand a right hook by a pickup truck

4:42:28the driver while i was in truck yelled at me the police unfortunately felt like they were

4:42:33fixated on the rubber handle bar mark on the truck's door rather than my own well-being

4:42:41and they told me that the next time i might not survive i was not sent for medical attention

4:42:47like i should have been and i thought i was fine as well behind the shock what i didn't know

4:42:53was that a vertebrae in my lower spine had shifted within days i could barely move or care for myself

4:43:00in that first year i spent around three thousand dollars just on chiropractic care alone to regain

4:43:06my ability to walk today the costs and consequences are still ongoing still cycling remains my lifeline

4:43:16being one of the only pain-free and affordable ways for me to get around even though it feels

4:43:22like i'm gearing up for battle for every ride surprisingly as well i feel safer on two wheels

4:43:28than i do on my own feet in the city this past summer was particularly busy with gcat with advocacy

4:43:35work with an influx of incidences including children and seniors unfortunately we also lost

4:43:41the life of susan barred who had known through gcat volunteer work an unfortunate update is that a

4:43:4716 year old pedestrian was struck this sunday just within 500 meters from where susan was struck

4:43:55both in proximity of school on october 1st just three days after helping to organize

4:44:02that susan's ghost ride i was hit again a right hook again and a hit and run despite my experience

4:44:11despite the bright colors the flashing lights i was stuck five months later we haven't identified

4:44:18the driver and i am waiting on a specialist for my right arm the intersection at gordon surrey

4:44:25and the drive-through is well known for its dangers for vulnerable road users i got to

4:44:31witness first hand mcdonald's um having their collision response down to an art although this

4:44:40incident rate is high here the vision zero report acknowledges that not everything is being reported

4:44:49a month after my second incident i came across an elementary school student

4:44:53whose bike was under a car in the same intersection had i not been there it was highly likely that

4:44:59this incident would not have been reported at all because the child was scared about being late for

4:45:04school before we claim that the protective infrastructure doesn't work i have fully supported

4:45:12that the protected section slowed down the vehicle um enough to prevent more serious injuries for myself

4:45:19and this kid and the infrastructure here is saving lives as it probably saved my life

4:45:26but the infrastructure is limited in the city and slow rolling vision zero is not about taking

4:45:33away from one group or prioritizing one group over another it is not a war on cars it's about

4:45:40making our streets safer for everyone these incidences are real lives disrupted families

4:45:48devastated and leaves communities grieving even non-serious injuries represent a lot of income

4:45:56medical costs physical and psychological trauma that can extend beyond just the individuals involved

4:46:03by adopting the vision zero action plan and sticking to it we are making a commitment to

4:46:09preventing further harm thank you excellent timing thank you very much miss bidgood and

4:46:16condolences on the loss of your friend and colleague are there any questions for miss bidgood

4:46:23okay thank you for your work conchicat okay then it's back to us i would like somebody to

4:46:30move the motion councillor Goller seconded by councillor downer and i've got on the speaking

4:46:36list councillors boost till and alt thank you and through you madam chair and to the staff thank

4:46:48you for all the work on this i think it's excellent um i i really appreciate that the community safety

4:46:54zones around schools and the um autospeed cameras as well um i do have some questions around those

4:47:03school areas um i'm west end so willow westwood road kind of area and lots of concerns and complaints

4:47:12around speeds and it's not in your high priority area so i'm wondering around the timing of things

4:47:18like complaints uh from from parents and the work that you do to coordinate with i know i notice i

4:47:25found the number number 54 active and safe routes to school where schools have to do long term

4:47:30accommodation plans and updates to those plans annually every spring and submitted to the ministry

4:47:35of education where they look at and enrollments and where to realign students so students previously

4:47:42who were on that side of the handlin now walk over the bridge over the handlin and cyclists as well

4:47:49to get to school so those are elementary school children um how the conversations happen with

4:47:54either active safe routes to school or school boards to ensure that those kids are are getting to

4:48:00school safely and i believe in the city of guelph that's the only school group that has to walk over

4:48:04a bridge over the handlin to get to their school as well right now boundary reviews going the opposite

4:48:11way to our lady of your lures grade 78 those kinds of conversations that doesn't happen at active and

4:48:16safe routes to school that's after the decision's been made if you are part of those boundary review

4:48:22conversations with the sit with the school boards to say you know we can work with you we can make

4:48:27that happen um so i was a little bit surprised i thought in your presentation in the document it

4:48:32said the review happens every five years because those things happen in between those five year

4:48:38periods and if you're waiting for changes uh to those community safety zones or putting in

4:48:46additional crosswalks you heard about it during the splash pad conversation on westwood road

4:48:51concerns there if you're waiting every five years to review this if it's kind of out of sync or is

4:48:56it more a living document so if you can speak about that and the last piece is enforcement

4:49:03i honestly every morning i get calls and emails from parents around schools parking safety things

4:49:12like that enforcement enforcement enforcement thank you thank you councillor through the chair

4:49:21on the on the first item the intent is that the the formal policy reviewer for community

4:49:27safety zones will happen every five years however the actual community safety zones

4:49:34can be amended really at any time through a traffic bylaw amendment so what we're committing to

4:49:39there is the policy review every five years but in between should the road network change and

4:49:45require a change we will bring that forward to council on the second item of enforcement um

4:49:52there's no i mean it's a challenge right we have the resources we have between bylaw and police

4:50:00and what we do is try to support them with all the data we collect so they can get out to those

4:50:05hot spots that are are proven to be hot spots supported by data um we're trying to work hand in

4:50:12hand um you see colleagues of ours uh from golf police that we interact with daily are here supporting

4:50:19us in the gallery we do what we can to give them the best data to go to the spots where we're

4:50:24having the biggest issues sorry just through the chair one of the other things i asked was about

4:50:29consultation i saw number 54 in the plan about active in-state routes to school which are not

4:50:35your planning body that's more kind of your communication and so on is there a tie to the

4:50:41planning uh whether it's boundary reviews and so on with with the school boards not the committee

4:50:49thank you councillor brisettill through the chair um if you don't mind i'd love to take that away i think

4:50:54i know the answer but i don't want to speculate i know we have a couple touch points with the

4:50:59school board but if i can follow up before the council meeting um so i've got the fact sorry

4:51:05i'd love to do that for you okay councillor Allt thank you very much chair work through you to staff

4:51:13um i appreciate the statement that there's no direct financial implication but uh

4:51:20uh i'm going to contradict you a bit i actually think that there's a positive one

4:51:24and it relates to policing paramedics and ambulances do we have any idea of what the impact might be

4:51:31on issues associated with um with the well essentially first response and uh and uh reducing

4:51:38speed limits and therefore lowering the potential for more significant accidents is there anything

4:51:44that we could report that is a dollars and cents issue uh through the chair to council again

4:51:54let let me take that way and see what we can get back to you it's probably a bit

4:51:58difficult i will point again we we highlighted just in the first three years of the red light camera

4:52:03we've seen a 40 million dollar savings in societal costs related to injury severity of

4:52:09collisions there so that that's a significant number to report thank you very much it's not

4:52:15to mention the savings on helicopters as well um with regards to the community safety zones

4:52:21uh councillor Busuttil and i did converse a little bit on the the boards but there are a couple of

4:52:26other aspects of this that are equally as important um i note that conestoga college at speedvale

4:52:32is one of the areas that will be identified uh because it is a an educational institution

4:52:38and i think that that one has to be uh annoyingly difficult to address similarly i would think that

4:52:44the university of guelph at stone road and to a lesser extent college at the arboretum would be

4:52:50equally challenging and then there's one that's about the nuance i believe it's the calvary baptist

4:52:56school at the corner of speedvale and knightswood those are all three fairly hot traffic areas have

4:53:03we been able to address how we can deal with those four and sometimes five lane roads and

4:53:09help hopefully to reduce traffic in those areas uh through the chair to councillor Allt uh presently

4:53:19our traffic calming policy um precludes us from traffic calming arterial roads having said that we

4:53:26do have some tools in our community road safety strategy um but thus far on arterial roads they've

4:53:33proven to have not quite the desired results we hope to achieve um i don't want to say the

4:53:40suggestion of a sc is sort of a last resort on those arterial roads but it's certainly um probably

4:53:48one of the best tools we can put in our toolbox to try to at least ensure the vehicles that are on

4:53:55our arterial roads which are supposed to be on the arterial roads are driving at the appropriate

4:53:59speed and and thank you for that the one that really is flagged for me is conestoga college

4:54:07because it is a tremendously heavily used area for larger vehicles as well i hope we can somehow

4:54:13address that one thanks hey councillor goller uh thank you and through your chair to staff

4:54:24first of all thank you for for the huge amount of work that has been done it's really appreciated

4:54:30all of the research um and the focus on on pedestrian and cyclist uh safety i really

4:54:37appreciate it i've heard from a lot of my constituents that really support this um and

4:54:42and there's a couple of questions about clarification about how this will be rolled out

4:54:48one of them and it's it's come up more recently in the last couple of days because the of the current

4:54:55uh trade situation that that is happening um the the firm that that provides the ASC

4:55:04as i understand that the products are made south of the border could you tell us a little bit about

4:55:09that that process whether there were you know do we have the ability to to explore Canadian

4:55:17vendors are there anyone in in Canada producing this could you tell us a little bit about that

4:55:22so through the chair to councillor goller yeah thanks for obviously very timely question

4:55:27i think what i can say of course uh you know with respect to trade and what's going on in the world

4:55:33um there's a lot of real-time live things happening and certainly the city is monitoring that

4:55:39through our under governmental department through our finance team um what i can say with respect

4:55:43to the work that we've got it is certainly procured work we're in contract with companies

4:55:48the company that supplies the cameras for example is an american-based company with

4:55:52the canadian headquarters but again all that work was done consistent with the city's

4:55:59chairman bylaw and so with respect to how the contracts are made and entered we're following

4:56:03cities standard processes and i think anything beyond that is really more what we're monitoring

4:56:08as an organization um has a whole okay okay no i i appreciate that and maybe this

4:56:17let me know executive team if this is not a question for today but are we going to be

4:56:21reviewing our procurement bylaw to make the priority of Canada first is that something

4:56:27that we're even allowed to do under uh Ontario regulations no okay thank you chair but if i could

4:56:35ask i think it has been an issue publicly that was certainly on social media i've seen that

4:56:46some of the procurement is from the us for the speed cameras so i just i would say that it is

4:56:52somewhat so if you can keep your question specifically to the speed cameras and not to

4:56:56a broader procurement process then i'll allow it thank you thank you so so through that if i could

4:57:01rephrase do we have the ability to review so that the next eight cameras that we purchase

4:57:09come from from canada is that possible so through the chair to councillor goller again i think the

4:57:18the process through the city's procurement bylaw has been followed we're in contract with a vendor and

4:57:23so um the contract stipulations apply and certainly reviewing anything outside that

4:57:29contract from an additional purchasing perspective is not something on our work plan we're focused

4:57:33on the work that is in the action plan that you have in front of you and that's where staff's

4:57:37attention is okay okay i appreciate that i'll follow offline on this but but thank you for that

4:57:45um related to this uh there was there was a newspaper article that talked about the revenue

4:57:51that actually comes back to the city um from those tickets if if you could please help me understand

4:57:57for every ticket that is issued how much of that actually comes back to the city and i know that

4:58:03last month we approved an administrative penalty system bylaw how will that actually shift the

4:58:10revenue to the city to to support more traffic calming through the chair to councillor goller so

4:58:20for 2024 68 percent of the ASC revenue came back to Guelph so the 32 percent that

4:58:32got sort of peeled out that covered our daily operating cost to the vendor and also our commitment

4:58:39to process the violations which is currently down in Toronto we owe the MTO some money for

4:58:46license plate information on every ticket whether it's a speeding ticket from a police officer

4:58:51there's a victim surcharge we collect that we put that money back to the province so 68 percent of

4:59:00the 2024 ASC revenue quote unquote stayed in Guelph okay i i really appreciate that i had read

4:59:07different numbers on some of the letters sent to us so i appreciate hearing that that is the what

4:59:12comes back to the city um and along with this there was also a comment from someone that wrote in

4:59:20about this being uncaring machines that are penalized and drivers can i verify when when um

4:59:27an image is taken is there an actual human that is looking at this and that is a proving ticket

4:59:35through the chair to councillor goller yes thank you very much for that i really appreciate it and

4:59:41i look forward to seeing those additional um cameras coming in uh with regards to the high risk network

4:59:51i understand that i was looking at a couple of the images that you provided there's a high risk

4:59:55network uh you also had a list of the incidents of serious injury or death and a list of the

5:00:03pedestrian cyclist collisions can you help me understand how those inform and you know for

5:00:08example when i look at the map the section between between on woodland between victoria road and

5:00:16woollett street um they uh it seems that there were no pedestrian cyclist collisions there were no

5:00:24serious injuries or deaths and yet it is identified as a both a highest prior road and a high prior

5:00:32road uh whereas other sections uh i mean as i look at that map of um of both casualties and

5:00:40collisions the entire gordon street to through downtown woollett it it's all littered with with

5:00:49incidents of collisions so i'm wondering why is that whole stretch not part of the high priority

5:00:55network uh to you councillor rork uh thank you for your question um so the high risk network

5:01:05is a concentration of a number of risk factors and we kind of we outlined some of these risk factors

5:01:11on page 47 so each segment every little part of the roadway was analyzed for its historical

5:01:17collision data average daily vehicle volume average vehicle speed average daily pedestrian

5:01:23volume average daily cyclist volume percentage of population over the age of 65 and percentage of

5:01:29low income in that area so it's trying to identify the risk of potential whether there's been a

5:01:34collision collisions are there but also it's more thinking about what potential future collisions

5:01:40could involve so in the high risk network we're trying to show the highest potential for that risk

5:01:45so in some places where there were conditions uh collisions specifically with car on car or maybe

5:01:51there was a collision with a car on a person who was walking on unless it was a higher risk it

5:01:57wasn't included in the high risk network so there's a number of different factors that were included

5:02:01so the high risk network is different than perhaps the first visual that you see which is the the

5:02:05number of collisions resulted in deaths and serious injuries okay okay okay i appreciate that it is

5:02:10is the risk factor then as we look at the community safety zone policy how will both of those play

5:02:19into into effect well i mean so just because i don't see a section of of wallet street here

5:02:26identified as a high highest priority road or a high priority road will they still be considered

5:02:33for community safety zones do you councillor work back to you go already yeah so the that's a good

5:02:42question because right now what you see on page 48 is the highest of the high so this is these are

5:02:48the areas of the highest potential now what our community safety zone policy addresses is that

5:02:53any like on top of the recommendations to have primary education centers and hospitals also

5:03:00roads that are near community facility and near the average of the the high risk network so anything

5:03:05that is high ish compared to all the risk of all the segments of every roadway whatever is high

5:03:11from the average onwards can be considered as long as it's 300 meters away from a community facility

5:03:16so i can't tell you specifically and i can get back to you if that would include but i do the

5:03:23i would say that community safety zones could is much more broader can be broader

5:03:27considered with that not just within this high risk network it's a broader number of segments

5:03:31that are considered okay okay thank you for that and i will follow offline a couple about a couple

5:03:36of the the roads that my constituents tell me that they have the most concern about because many of

5:03:40them are listed but some of them are not i appreciate that and just in terms of the timing i see in

5:03:47the report that the new community safety zones for the purposes of the new automated speed cameras

5:03:54will be in place for um september 2026 and we're approving the community safety zones policy today

5:04:03with five implementation steps on page three when do we actually see those new community

5:04:09safety zones being brought back to us uh through the chair to council galler i i appreciate

5:04:18i should have included a calendar as an attachment so the uh let's assume the community safety zone

5:04:25policy is approved on march 25th we will then come back between march 25th and july 1st and inform

5:04:32council what those initial locations will be you will approve a traffic bylaw amendment to confirm

5:04:38that we will then implement the signs this call it summer july and august 2025 and again we want to

5:04:48give a full year for everybody to understand something has changed here before we would consider

5:04:56putting a camera in so signs bylaw enactment summer 2025 actual enforcement kind of fall 2026

5:05:07okay okay i really appreciate that um no that that's that's wonderful uh this brings me to to the

5:05:13actual action plan 68 action items fantastic will there be a dashboard on the website that actually

5:05:21lists them until start progress or how do we envision the community tracking what is being

5:05:25actioned um to you councillor rohrick back to you go great question uh communication strategy is

5:05:33listed in one of our actions we anticipate once this is approved if this is approved by by the

5:05:39community the whole and also by council this will move forward to be presented publicly on our vision

5:05:44zero website on gulf dot ca slash vision zero currently there is a dashboard which lists all of

5:05:49our public all of our data related to some of our key actions previously previous to this approval

5:05:56as well as all of our collision data so we hope to promote our our many of these actions through

5:06:02that dashboard okay okay i i look forward to seeing that that that's wonderful um and if you could

5:06:08help me understand sorry councillor gallard you have many more questions because you are edging

5:06:13up to that five minute limit i have a couple of more uh chair but you let me know when my time

5:06:19stopped make that quick yep yes um thank you um with with regards to to the complaints that

5:06:28are from my constituents uh there is a lot of concerns about tailgating dangerous driving

5:06:34could you tell me i saw that a couple of the action items talk about uh working with police

5:06:39on driver education could you tell us a little bit about what that would look like um through

5:06:49madam chair to councillor Goller currently we work with gulf police as part of our vision

5:06:53zero steering committee so we need um about four times a year to talk about issues as a whole

5:06:59that affect the city part of our vision zero plan is really looking at equity and and looking at that

5:07:05we are of course interested in what the community is telling us they're on the ground they're looking

5:07:09at these day-to-day issues but we're also trying to rely on a lot of the data that we see through

5:07:15things like the high-risk network by looking at speeds collision history and things of that nature

5:07:20and then working with police on that back end so that it supports some of their enforcement work

5:07:26okay okay no i i i really appreciate that um and through you chair my my last question uh i got this

5:07:34from a couple of the of the letters on a couple of constituents when we have uh the speed radar

5:07:40signs is it possible to put in the speed limit because i hear from many people that they see

5:07:46a flashing they know they're going too fast but they don't know they're supposed to be going 50

5:07:49or 40 or 30 when it's flashing at them through the chair to councillor Goller yes we've also

5:07:55heard that feedback it's something on our work plan this year thank you very much okay

5:08:02mayor guthrie followed by councillor Chew well thank you uh thank you chair and through you

5:08:11couple of my questions were covered off by my friend here thank you very much

5:08:16saves everybody more time um let's see here crossing guards just wondered if we could bring

5:08:22that question up um some of the some of the information i want to give credit where credits

5:08:29do here chair or or sent an email to everybody uh this morning from a constituent that just wanted

5:08:36to highlight as part as we as we look to implement uh like tech technology a lot of this is technology

5:08:43or uh that we're talking about there's also you know the real-life human interaction of a

5:08:48crossing guard just wondered if you could speak to how are we doing with that program how is that

5:08:53program interrelated with what what's happening here um is are we in a problem spot with with

5:09:01crossing guards is there a problem with hiring retention do we need more uh how does that intersect

5:09:09with with this report through the chair to mayor guthrie uh thanks for the question i'll just

5:09:19bit of groundwork we're we're celebrating the 20th year of our adult school crossing

5:09:23your program in wealth this year i think our longest serving guard has been with us for 16 years so

5:09:30we have a great staff we have 35 current locations and between full-time guards and spare guards we

5:09:38have 53 uh part-time staff supporting the program um mayor guthrie you've addressed all the things

5:09:47uh uh recruitment retention um is a bit of a challenge for this program um just with the

5:09:54the nature of the job the hours of work outside year around um it tends to attract uh people who

5:10:01are retired who want to give back to their community um but therein lies you know it's it's

5:10:07difficult sometimes for them to be out in the the dead of winter and the worst of their conditions so

5:10:13um we do our best with the program but all the things you highlighted are our challenges that

5:10:19we've been encountering for several years in terms of recruitment retention staff turnover

5:10:26but those who are in the program um are super dedicated um and we do the best we can with it

5:10:36thank you so much you know sometimes uh you know i think about certain

5:10:43hirings that the city does throughout the year uh lifeguards as an example um staff will kind of

5:10:49throw that to all of council to amplify so if you're if you're doing things that would help

5:10:55with this you know if you could let us know we can amplify that to try to see if we can

5:10:59help with recruiting if if that's a need um i just wondered about the reaction time no pun intended

5:11:06to staff with being able to go to problem areas that arise in the moment with potential

5:11:13infrastructure and or technology that can be used in other words do we have on hand a roaming

5:11:23flashing speed signs and do we have enough of them do we have roaming speed enforcement that

5:11:29can be dedicated to roaming to certain areas where they're needed where we get in the moment

5:11:35sort of problem uh for for certain areas do we have those things on hand through the chair to

5:11:45marigot three i would say yes like we have some devices that we can deploy for instance if we get

5:11:51uh an unplanned long-term road closure we could very easily get into a neighborhood with some

5:11:57temporary measures um to reinforce traffic coming selfishly we could always have more

5:12:03but we work within you know the budgets and means in which we have um am i i think my last

5:12:11question through you madam chair is this is that um when you implement certain features within

5:12:18certain and on certain roads and you're gathering that data and that feedback which is great

5:12:25is there any look at capturing some of the feedback and or real-life scenarios that sometimes play

5:12:33we might get um complaints about this where the speed or the diversion of certain things

5:12:40on a certain street or a school is is doing really really great but the ripple effect of that is that

5:12:48other side streets now we've got a bunch of cars that are going in different areas of

5:12:53residential neighborhoods because they don't want to be in those areas how are you capturing

5:12:59that uh that data and how are you addressing that

5:13:05through you madam chair to mayor gethry one of the things that we do is we do baseline and

5:13:11pre post data collection on adjacent roadways now of course that's going to vary neighborhood by

5:13:15neighborhood some neighborhoods there's a more obvious three way where the volume can shift from

5:13:20one location to another but that's why we've looked at um volume data on those adjacent roadways

5:13:26one of the things that we notice is on average we're seeing about a 15 percent uh if you look at

5:13:31automated speed enforcement as an example we're seeing a 15 percent reduction on volume on the

5:13:35roads that have ASC that being said again it's going it'll be variable so there'll be other roads

5:13:41where the adjacent roadways may have um an increase or a decrease and so we sort of monitor the area

5:13:48as a whole and the network as a whole to see how we can look at safety for that entire region

5:13:53okay thank you my last question is just to ask this now not knowing if this is the right place

5:14:00and if it's not i'm fine with that but through you madam chair um a lot of a lot of delegations

5:14:07today a lot of feedback around bicycling infrastructure fair enough that's that's fine

5:14:14um i am getting overly concerned about planned construction where infrastructure is being

5:14:24implemented where there are vehicular lanes that are being taken away or on street parking

5:14:30that is being taken away and i am wondering if that is being captured in any of the kpis and data

5:14:39that is occurring in the overall implementation of those types of that type of infrastructure

5:14:45as it relates to vision zero if it's accomplishing like the outcomes from a vision zero perspective

5:14:52that we're looking for so i'll it's and i'm just wanting to know i'm fine if this is not the right

5:14:57place for it but i i am getting more and more concerned about this and i just didn't know if

5:15:03this is the right place or or or not so through you chair or to mayor guthrie thanks it's a great

5:15:10question it's certainly all linked right in terms of the built environment and vision zero being a

5:15:15principle that goes into the way we design things the way we track um the collision history the impacts

5:15:20all the things that we've talked about today and so um they are linked we do have a council workshop

5:15:25and education and engagement session coming up on march 19th where there is a bit more connection

5:15:30to things like neighborhood bikeways and other techniques that we're looking at implementing

5:15:35commentary around updates to cycling master plans and things of that nature and so there is more

5:15:39information coming to council um so certainly it's all linked together certainly we are collecting

5:15:45stats and data and tracking the impacts of all these things um so it's an appropriate question

5:15:51okay i'll leave it at that then and we'll leave it at that conversation to start maybe a bit more

5:15:56on march the 19th all right thank you uh my final question is is this if people do not

5:16:02want to get speeding tickets they should not do what oh um is this a riddle uh through the

5:16:12chair and the mayor i'd suggest drivers are 100 in control of whether or not they get a speeding

5:16:17ticket thank you all right over to councillor chou then councillor Caton thank you through you

5:16:28madam chair uh i just wanted to ask um where can we find that volume data is that internal or is that

5:16:35on the dashboard uh through the chair to council right right now it's internal um we have longer

5:16:45term plans of looking at more open data transparency around volume speed all that stuff but right now

5:16:52it's just internal okay um and i just want to clarify so the um questions made through uh

5:17:00councillor Goller so that high risk network uh basically what we're seeing um is just the most

5:17:07severe uh locations but is that correct to chair to you too um yes that's the most the highest risk

5:17:17index score as what we're calling it uh according to our own risk index okay and how do we uh

5:17:25channel conversations around where we'd like to expand community safety zones because it seems

5:17:31like there's some uh discretion as well now uh if the new um designations passed um

5:17:46well i'll say um through the chair to councillor chou as i stated earlier our plan is um let's get

5:17:56the policy approved then we'll come back with our initial roll out based on our recommendations

5:18:02if council wishes to add a street to lead a street as as nico indicated in the highway

5:18:11traffic act they are at the discretion of council so uh motion could be put on the floor but

5:18:17again we'll come back with all the supporting information on why we've selected the locations

5:18:22we've selected okay yeah no that's that's fair and i and i i just want to respect your guys's

5:18:29process as well so i just asked that to clarify for so i can take back to folks to so they understand

5:18:37you know where you guys are at because you have to service the whole city not just word six um

5:18:43i did kind of want to touch on how we're able to collectively address some of the cultural

5:18:49expectations that are built around some of our roadways because you know in my in council

5:18:55recognize uh neck of the woods we do have uh streets that are historically meant to be

5:19:01like large arterial roads um but that's no longer necessarily the purpose but we do get a lot of

5:19:07thoroughfare traffic and you can probably infer where i'm talking about and you know there's

5:19:13tarmigan downy road and even nisca now um and it's really hard for me to kind of capture

5:19:22some of the concerns and rectify that necessarily through that community safety zone designation

5:19:28if i were to advocate from our constituents and say okay like maybe we can designate nisca

5:19:34at the community safety zone um it doesn't necessarily get captured through the criteria

5:19:40that is prescribed so i just i'm just very curious like how we can kind of work through

5:19:45some of the gray areas that's not necessarily acknowledged through the formal uh policy but

5:19:51you know there's a great uh cultural uh expectation that we rectify this and there are a lot of folks

5:19:58that don't necessarily go through the channel of the service requests and so forth that do come to us

5:20:04and we're having to come to you but we want to make sure it's legitimate as well what we're

5:20:09trying to say so um it's it's a loaded question but i'm just curious like how like with this new

5:20:18policy moving forward like how do we work together in this public realm and even you know back a house

5:20:29to you chair to uh councillor chou i'll i'll say what i think i'm hearing is how do we speak to

5:20:37people and communicate this idea of vision zero and how do we communicate risk as well um we we

5:20:43prepared a survey to which was responded to by a thousand residents and trying to understand what

5:20:49their current understanding of vision zero not vision zero but what is what is safety um is it

5:20:55okay to speed a little bit faster what roads should be prioritized should be prioritized local roads

5:21:00or faster roads so we try to understand what people's thinking was and their perception on road safety

5:21:06and then we we were we're now analyzing that data based on where people live

5:21:10based on how they get around based on their age and we're having some interesting findings so I

5:21:14think over the next year we'll have a communications report that's listed as part of the vision

5:21:19superaction to be able to be more clear on how do we communicate more appropriately to people's

5:21:24lived experience and hopefully get get them on board as well okay and yeah I appreciate a lot of

5:21:35what I I had initially was answered but I guess I'll just leave with like a final remark if that's

5:21:40okay with you um I think we just need a way to provide more clarity as to what the expectations

5:21:51are when folks do come through with a service request and if they come to us directly as counselors

5:21:58like I do need to emphasize there are a lot of folks that don't go through the channel that

5:22:04we're promoting and that I I'm actively promoting and they're looking to us to kind of be able to

5:22:11communicate these concerns and at the end of the day people just want to see things get put on the

5:22:18ground as well so I'm trying to strike the balance between making sure we're going through this

5:22:24objective process which we're trying to articulate that's you know data driven but ensure that you

5:22:30know we're not just leaving people with some word salad at the end of the day so if you guys can

5:22:35give me some more comfort on that note I can then forward these conversations we're having to my

5:22:43constituents. Thanks for the question through the chair to council. One of the things we are

5:22:53desperately working to achieve is to be more proactive and not rely on waiting for the phone

5:22:59ring or an email to come in to tell us where a problem is however the reality is we have some

5:23:05catching up to do on on this work we have hundreds of outstanding service requests

5:23:11we're working our way through so I would say in the in the interim we appreciate the support

5:23:17continue to to pass those messages along my friend to my left here has been on me since he became

5:23:26my boss about how do we be more proactive and we will get there we just need to kind of get caught

5:23:33up with a bit of the backlog so that that's where I would say to that. Okay councillor Katyn.

5:23:43Thank you through you chair work. First out I love it like great job this is an amazing report

5:23:51and you all have done a lot of work and it's an incredibly important topic. I was wondering

5:23:58as we're just kind of on the end hopefully of winter has there been a difference between

5:24:05seasonal accidents things that are caused by like snowdrifts being high and people like jetting

5:24:11out and things like that versus others or is that something that we're not looking into?

5:24:18Through the chair to the councillor that's actually something I've flagged right to make a point to

5:24:25identify these couple of weeks in the calendar there is a lag to get collision data in so we

5:24:30might not know that answer till into the summer but it's certainly something now we have the

5:24:35capability to do analysis on that we that we didn't years ago. Great thank you and I as you I'm sure

5:24:46you've heard big on pedestrian crosswalks and am I assuming correctly that that's like the the plan

5:24:53for those in expansion is kind of rolled up in the pedestrian master plan? Through the

5:25:00the chair to the councillor yes and as Terry noted we have a workshop coming on March 19th and one

5:25:06of the the topics you'll see on that is on that very subject around pedestrians and getting around

5:25:12the city. Great and through the chair final question I know that staff had made a commitment to the AAC

5:25:21to be using speed humps as sparingly as possible due to concerns they had with folks in disabilities

5:25:29kind of going over them I was just wondering has the rollout of the automated speed cameras helped

5:25:35with that commitment at all? Through the chair to the councillor we're seeing well I don't want to

5:25:47sound like I'm kicking the hand down the road we have some positive data and you'll see it when

5:25:51the workshop agenda comes out and we're going to we're going to talk about that and we are also

5:25:56committed to doing a review of our traffic calming policy this year so certainly again we'll be reaching

5:26:02out to the AAC as with all the public around any updates to that policy. Great thank you very much

5:26:11okay Councillor Billings. Okay so the speed cameras and I realize we're we're going to have more of

5:26:22they operate 24-7. One of the biggest complaints that I receive is someone getting a ticket

5:26:33three in the morning so we're going to have more of the speed cameras on arterial roads

5:26:40if there's a high school for example and so okay these cameras are they capable at all

5:26:49and only operating at certain times of day? Through the chair to Councillor Billings yes.

5:27:00But you are proposing the 24-7 on an arterial road where there's a high school so that you'll

5:27:06still get a ticket in the middle of the night is that correct? Through the chair to Councillor

5:27:12Billings to clarify the speed limit will be consistent all hours of the day it doesn't speak

5:27:20to the enforcement hours it'll be the speed limit that's in effect all hours of the day.

5:27:25So on arterials that's going to be a 40 then in the school zone? Through the chair yes.

5:27:35But the cameras are still going to operate 24-7? Through the chair

5:27:46respectfully I'd rather not disclose what hours we're enforcing I don't want to get into that

5:27:56respectfully we have the option to not enforce 24 hours. Okay next question then one of the

5:28:06action plans to investigate implementing no right turns on a red policy red light policy along high

5:28:14risk network that I agree with but then it says also for the policy to go throughout Guelph

5:28:20why wouldn't we just concentrate on the high risk or is it throughout Guelph in there in case

5:28:26something comes up with an area that's not in the high risk area but yet there's been an accident?

5:28:34Yeah the policy is to explore no right turn on red as is being explored by a few other municipalities

5:28:44in Ontario at the moment I believe where the idea would be that we would need to explore if it's

5:28:51feasible to do it across the city or if it's also we should be focusing specifically on high risk

5:28:56network from a communications lens it's helpful for people to know across the city that it's

5:29:02that no no right turns on reds are permitted it just helps with people's understanding of the

5:29:08rules of the road. Okay so it's an assessment that you're going to do? Yeah we're going to

5:29:13explore the feasibility of this. Okay and then through you I will thank you for the clarity

5:29:19on that one. Through you Madam Chair I do want to go back to decreasing lanes so again one of the

5:29:27actions is the conversion of general traffic lanes to dedicated transit lanes so I guess my question

5:29:37is more process if this plan is approved because the time frame of that is three to five years

5:29:46will staff be coming back to council to to approve where where this decrease will be

5:29:53or are you or will staff just implement and and put in the the dedicated transit lane

5:30:00without council approval? Through the chair to council billing so so that work was approved as

5:30:09part of the transportation master plan and those areas identified in the city are are within that

5:30:15document. There's budgeted items for that in the three to five year window and I will confirm to you

5:30:24about your question in terms of how that is coming back to council. I don't have that on me

5:30:30right now. Okay yeah that's all I wanted to know if it was going to come back. Thank you. Okay who's

5:30:38on the board? Councillor Goller I'll give you 30 seconds to ask your question. Thank you very

5:30:44generous chair. When will we go be going down to 30 kilometers per hour on residential streets?

5:30:51When we approve 40 you said that there will be a review and we will consider going down to 30.

5:30:59Through the chair to council Gowler my recollection is we committed to doing that review in 2027.

5:31:06Appreciate that thank you. Thank you so I have a number of questions myself. Further to councillor

5:31:13Billings question when the transportation safety transportation master plan came to council I had

5:31:20a motion to ask that when the conversation about taking lanes off of Corden for a transit corridor

5:31:27have that come back to council. I believe that motion failed but I would like to reiterate

5:31:34my desire to see that come back to council for a fulsome conversation about the elimination of

5:31:40two lanes of traffic on Gordon Street which is one of the only north south arterials in the south end.

5:31:45So if you need a motion we could bring a motion at the end of the month. I have a question again

5:31:52similar to councillor Billings regarding the new high school that's going to be at Victoria and

5:31:57Arkle. So how does a 40 kilometer on Arkle and a 40 kilometer on Victoria work would those be the

5:32:07neighborhood zones where fines are doubled? Would those be areas for speed cameras? Because I've

5:32:12got some concerns about somebody who late at night you know is coming across the city from the way

5:32:20in the north end all the way down to Claire Road and they're going to hit multiple zones of 60,

5:32:2740, 50 like the speeds really vary a lot. I think it would be challenging for a motorist to be honest

5:32:34I know that rode really well. What's the plan for intersections like that that are also I believe

5:32:40truck routes? To you chair or RORC we haven't totally finalized the high school but you're quite

5:32:53right they would they would fall within our policy and be posted as a community safety zone and be

5:32:58posted as 40 kilometers an hour and therefore be eligible for an automated speed enforcement camera.

5:33:06One of the action items is to review like our speed limit policy. One of the things we'll be

5:33:13doing this summer is cleaning up. We've heard about College Avenue for instance it kind of

5:33:17bits and bobs the whole way along so certainly where there's opportunities to make speed limits

5:33:22more uniform along the same roadway that's one of the things we're actively looking to do.

5:33:31Thank you really quick one can we use automated speed enforcement for speed racing?

5:33:39Street racing rather? Through the chair yes provided the street racing happens

5:33:48where the camera is installed. I'll reiterate if anybody exceeds the threshold I'm looking it's

5:33:57either 40 or 50 kilometers an hour then they go through a more punitive penalty system it's not

5:34:05just you get a speeding ticket you get a knock at the door from one of my friends in the gallery

5:34:10there so street racing is captured through the speed enforcement cameras as well.

5:34:24I'm thinking the reports that 72% of the collisions are occurring at intersections so I'm

5:34:29wondering how automated speed enforcement helps that because what I'm seeing myself in terms of

5:34:37near misses there's people there they're rushing the intersection to get through before the pedestrians

5:34:42can and we I mean it's horrifying the number of pedestrians who've been hit so what is the

5:34:48improvement to the intersections there is a reference in the report about leading pedestrian

5:34:53intervals are we going to see more of those? To you chair or work there's a whole suite of options

5:35:02that we can implement at intersections to improve the safety of all road users and to your specific

5:35:08question yes the expansion of leading pedestrian intervals is on our work plan in 2025.

5:35:14Great to piggyback on one of my colleagues questions also what happens to existing traffic calming

5:35:23requests and service requests are folks that have been waiting for a while for

5:35:27some reports and maybe some some calming in their neighborhood.

5:35:33To you chair we're we're going to explore that conversation in depth on March 19th.

5:35:39Great super quick the high-risk network shows Gordon leading to Claire will be

5:35:46is part of the high-risk network but won't that be addressed by the Gordon Street improvements?

5:35:55To you chair or work possibly we haven't done detailed design yet again the beauty of the

5:36:02implementation of some of these zones is they can change over time.

5:36:06Okay one more question and then two comments real quick.

5:36:15We get a lot of questions around the speed of processing the tickets so if our friends in the

5:36:21gallery pull me over I know immediately that I've been going too fast it's been a long time though

5:36:27so glad to see them only in the gallery so people are really concerned right they're

5:36:33they're coming through a neighborhood kind of frequently and all of a sudden they've got six

5:36:36tickets in the mail and admittedly they've been speeding can we increase the speed of processing

5:36:42since the goal is changing a behavior and not being punitive? To you chair or work we continue

5:36:51to work with both our vendor and the processing center on speeding that up we've made a few

5:36:58changes to the way we roll out the cameras and I'll say on our end that concern has largely

5:37:05been dissipated over the last six to eight months. That's great news to hear okay and then my two

5:37:12takeaways are with respect to action four for the quality transit network there may be a motion at

5:37:18the end of the month to to require that to come back to council and then on action seven is there

5:37:24a reason that that does not currently involve economic development? The reason I raise it

5:37:32is because we do need truck routes we do need goods movement and I'm wondering if our friends

5:37:38from economic development are involved? To you chair or work the project was project managed

5:37:44through our transportation planning division and it within that they reached out to all sorts of

5:37:50different groups both internal and external and definitely economic development was one of them.

5:37:57Okay great all right so those are my questions anyone else? No the motion is on the floor any

5:38:03amendments? No I see no amendments no need to split the recommendations okay anyone opposed?

5:38:15Okay then that vote carries all right I'm going to go to Mayor Guthrie and then we have a staff

5:38:22announcement. Great thank you chair I just wanted to at the end of the meeting here just give a little

5:38:29update for just one second just in regards to the tariff issue and I'm going to send it over to

5:38:34our CAO as well to speak on this matter but it was probably a couple of weeks ago I think at the

5:38:42end of a council meeting I had mentioned that you know I was very proud that our city has already

5:38:49been looking into our procurement policies and our purchasing policies that I've been I've been

5:38:54trusted that was staff and I can just let you know they are doing that like almost daily they

5:39:00are working on this issue they they are on top of this issue I was very pleased to know all of

5:39:06council was pleased to know which I said to the community that 98.5 percent of what we are currently

5:39:13purchasing is already Canadian however they are looking to see if there's more that they can do

5:39:18like this we don't just stop there and especially with today there's an opportunity to continue the

5:39:24work that they're doing to look to see if there's options for us and if there are our staff are

5:39:29going to be definitely bringing that back I'm working with the mayor's groups with FCM with

5:39:36AMO I'm constantly in contact with all of these types of groups and we will be bringing things

5:39:43forward if need be because this is a moment for us to join probably with other cities all of Canada

5:39:52FCM and AMO to really raise this the profile on this issue I'll stop there I'll maybe just turn

5:39:59it over to our CAO to see if there's anything I missed or anything she'd like to add. Sure I just

5:40:04wanted to I guess probably reconfirm that we're working very very closely with FCM AMO and our

5:40:11municipal counterparts to make sure that you know what our response is connected and in

5:40:19amplifying what's happening across the province. We council should likely see more information today

5:40:27our intergovernmental staff are pulling together a briefing right now and I also just wanted to

5:40:35bring attention to our economic development team we're continuing to gather feedback on

5:40:40the business experience in Guelph and that we've launched a tariff survey and so you can find that

5:40:47on our website and so please I would just encourage the you know our business community and

5:40:52council if you can amplify that to get us as much data as we can that will help us inform our strategy

5:40:59and and then based on the briefing and the information that we're we're receiving right now

5:41:06kind of live it's happening live so we're trying to keep up and we'll get that information to council

5:41:12and then we will work on bringing in what that might look like coming back to council for direction

5:41:18at some point so thank you. I can just follow up with that just one more statement if you don't mind

5:41:25one of the things that I've been learning in speaking to many of the groups and last week

5:41:31in speaking with Minister Champagne is that the importance of a coordinated approach having a

5:41:40municipality sort of go one off here or there is actually not helpful and everything is going

5:41:46through global affairs Canada and so it's it's very important that our language is correct what we

5:41:54are fighting for is correct and I'm sure it all is but there's a coordination behind the scenes to

5:42:01make sure that we are all saying and doing the right things and that that is very key and obviously

5:42:08the federal government is taking like the lead and then it goes to the province and then it comes

5:42:13down to mostly associations and then municipalities but we're all singing from the same song sheet

5:42:19and so I appreciate you chair and and and council just let me brief you very quickly on that at the

5:42:24end of the the meeting today thank you to Tara and the executive team and Ekdev as well we're on it

5:42:30and if there's something we need to do we will bring it forward at the maybe the end of the month

5:42:34or or another time but at the right time with the right language making sure we're we're saying

5:42:39the right things okay over to you though thank you very much chair great okay I need a motion to adjourn

5:42:47Councillor Richardson seconded by Councillor True is anybody opposed

5:42:52have a great afternoon