Additional phase 2 recommendation for the Single-Use Items Reduction Strategy, as included in report 2025-84, dated March 4, 2025… be approved

3:16:11break we passed an item on consent that was the 2024 water services annual report the summary report

3:16:17and water efficiency strategy progress report all page turners that I highly recommend and we are

3:16:23moving to item 12.1 the single use item strategy phase two reusable containers and we're kicking

3:16:30that off with a presentation by our general manager environmental services nectar tabocopolis

3:16:37and our manager business and technical services Heather Connell good morning good morning chair

3:16:48members of council I'm excited to be here today to share an update with respect to the recent

3:16:53findings related to the city's single use items reduction strategy and more specifically on reusable

3:16:59containers as you may recall council directed staff to explore viable options to reduce single

3:17:05use plastics and wealth as part of the solid waste management master plan the plan recommended a phased

3:17:11approach in phase one single use plastic shopping bags and polystyrene phone cups and containers

3:17:18were banned as of january 1st 2023 in phase two council approved that as this past saturday on march

3:17:271st businesses must accept a customer's clean reusable cup offer only single use accessory

3:17:33food wear items such as utensils and food packets by request only or at solve surf stations and if

3:17:40providing paper shopping bags they must contain 40% post consumer content additionally council

3:17:47directed staff to further look at ways to to with respect to reusable containers staff consulted

3:17:54with the wealth economic development and advisory committee as well as local food businesses in 2024

3:18:00and into 2025 city staff spoke to over 200 businesses in december and january about the phase two

3:18:08requirements and requested feedback on reusable containers of those that responded to the survey

3:18:15approximately 47 already accepted reusable containers and 87 had responded that they

3:18:24had positive experiences with reusable containers staff acknowledged that some businesses identified

3:18:32issues with cleanliness health and safety concerns lack of sanitization equipment for third party

3:18:38containers procedural interruptions such as storage and space and staff constraints as well as

3:18:46operational process disruptions based on the food safety concerns staff have consulted with wellington

3:18:53dufferin wealth public health to provide recommendations for accepting reusable containers while also

3:18:58meeting the requirements for the food service operators to meet the food promises regulation

3:19:04based on these consultations staff are recommending that the council approve the recommendation

3:19:09starting to september first 2025 that businesses must accept a customer's clean reusable container

3:19:16or provide a reusable container either through their own business or through a third party service

3:19:21with noted exceptions for drive-thrus or food purchase for delivery as you know we have heard

3:19:27concerns and additional feedback from stakeholders with recent correspondence related to this

3:19:32council item and we want to thank those who have responded and met with us and taken the time

3:19:37to do a thorough review feedback is important and feedback matters we acknowledge their concerns

3:19:43and have prepared an amendment for your consideration thank you very much for your time and I'll pass it

3:19:48back to the chair thank you miss connell okay we have some delegates uh chris barnier of restaurants

3:19:59canada mr clerk they're online great they're coming through on video thank you councillor

3:20:12welcome mr barnier thank you um again i'm from uh i'm from restaurants canada and the vp for central

3:20:19region uh in the brief time i have i want to touch on three key points first is the troubled state of

3:20:26our industry that is literally being made worse today with the us trade war i'll speak to our

3:20:31concerns on accepting customer provided reusable containers uh and to the merits of programs like

3:20:37friendlier but their limitations that don't work for all restaurants um to give you a sense of where

3:20:42we're at free pandemic you would have had about 12 percent of restaurant businesses operating across

3:20:48canada say i am operating at a loss or i'm barely breaking even today it is north of 50 percent that's

3:20:55even before a trade war uh why is that well things like our food costs are up 25 percent in the last

3:21:01two years alone uh we have seen wages increased by upwards of 20 percent in the last couple years

3:21:07alone plus every other cost center in terms of customer spending it is down from pre-pandemic

3:21:14about 200 per capita uh and as we head into a trade war literally today governments are taking

3:21:20action to make the things that our businesses rely on to run their businesses more expensive

3:21:26and as consumers face higher cost in other areas they will continue to pull back on restaurant

3:21:31spending and we will see a lot of jobs lost in our sector we just can't take anything else right now

3:21:37so we'll talk first about the proposal to compel a restaurant to accept a customer's reusable container

3:21:44first if somebody wants to have their leftovers loaded into a container uh that they bring from

3:21:49home very seldom would a restaurant have an issue with that but if we're talking about

3:21:54compelling the restaurant to serve the meal into a customer provided container that's where we have

3:21:59a concern so reading through the documents provided the bylaw and public health guidance as we

3:22:06understand it relies on a restaurant employee often a team to determine if the customer provided

3:22:12container is of sound construction visually clean never mind sterile which you know you can't

3:22:18determine with the naked eye uh is in good repair and is suitable for its intended purpose

3:22:24which again leaves a lot of ambiguity where you put young restaurant employees at risk of coming

3:22:30into conflict with uh with customers um but let's say that the container does make it into the back

3:22:36of house in the food prep area we have again it may look clean but we don't know if it's sterile

3:22:43based on the naked eye it could be allergies it could be other contaminants and anything that that

3:22:49container touches could contaminate the next thing posing health risks for uh employees and for

3:22:55patrons the the guidance could be wash your hands more or use single use latex gloves thus

3:23:03you're creating waste in order to prevent it which is a concern for us beyond that there are other

3:23:09health and safety risks everything from burns to broken containers like glass containers that

3:23:14could create shards that could get into uh food or were arm workers um then there comes customer

3:23:21service standards in many cases the packaging itself is the portion control it's also designed to

3:23:27protect customer safety quality of experience excuse me and temperature etc um if you're

3:23:36introducing something like that it will impact profitability uh and customer service experience

3:23:42and speed uh during a time when we're already very vulnerable uh your staff also asks us about the

3:23:47possibility well can we just designate a space at the front of a restaurant where staff could

3:23:52walk the the food maybe in hot pots and pans or on a tray into the customer dining room area and

3:24:00we'd say no uh reason for that being is a table a two-seater table in a restaurant where it's

3:24:06premium space might be about 40 000 dollars in revenue to that restaurant they cannot forego that

3:24:13uh and imagine again imagine a restaurant employee going walking through with hot pots and pans

3:24:19and some customer trying to load their food into into a vessel um that creates a safety risk and

3:24:26and again it's going to be a pleasantness experience for the rest of the uh the customers there

3:24:31the other one is a concepts like friendlier which are again for companies who use them are

3:24:36absolutely great where there is where there is that ability to have a third party provided container

3:24:41that is reusable on deposit that can be sterilized for some businesses that works for other businesses

3:24:48and we do have some who have multiple locations including you know in in wealth um in Waterloo

3:24:54region where they are using it in some of their locations but not others because just the physical

3:24:59constraints and operating environments in the restaurants just don't allow for that uh so in

3:25:05short thank you council um certainly applaud much of what uh wealth is doing in in environmental

3:25:10stewardship this is not the time for this and this is not the right process forward but we do

3:25:16welcome the opportunity uh to work with the city to promote leaders in the industry wow that was

3:25:23perfect close there mr barnier sit tight i want to see if any of the members of council have questions

3:25:28for you councillor Allt's going to kick us off thank you very much uh chair work and uh thank you very

3:25:35much to the delegate uh mr barnier uh through you to mr barnier um you made reference to something

3:25:42that i think is very important here and that's the quote troubled state of the industry and you

3:25:48also stated quote not the time um so i'm i'm somewhat confused about how the troubled state

3:25:56and the trade war to which you had made reference and not the time uh fit into this are you implying

3:26:04that there is a time when this could occur here sorry what i'm saying councillor is is that again

3:26:15this is not the time uh just given that the state of the industry but the other side is is that what

3:26:20is presented right now has a lot of ambiguity um and it just it's it's not ready to go uh there

3:26:28this is something that is fairly no i understand that there is something in banff that is similar but

3:26:35not as defined as this where there hasn't been a lot of experience yet and um there are a lot of

3:26:41concerns being raised by our members out there uh so no rather than brush with something i think it's

3:26:49slow down uh and certainly let's have an opportunity to see what goes on in banff and other jurisdictions

3:26:56and we can come back to it maybe at some point but again we do have serious concerns about what

3:27:01is proposed here uh both from a health and safety perspective and from a timing perspective thank you

3:27:09very much um i'd like to do a couple of follow-ups uh the first one relates and i will ask staff the

3:27:15same question um in a um a letter from mr. court does it tell who is i believe on on the executive

3:27:24to which you serve um he had addressed the possibility of a pilot project as being something

3:27:31that would be worthwhile i was wondering if you could comment on the principle of a pilot project

3:27:37that would therefore um draw out the time limit more and would give us the data well i think on

3:27:46on the pilot project where you have something like a friendlier concept where you can um you know

3:27:53again where it works for some businesses uh you know do more of that where there might be funding

3:27:59to help uh more businesses integrate those sort of services i think that's the sort of thing that

3:28:05we that we would welcome and certainly a program that would um you know where restaurants cana or

3:28:12other organizations could work with the city to say if you're a consumer and this is an offering

3:28:17that matters to you and you want to find a business that matters to them too let's work to promote

3:28:22those so that consumers know where to find those businesses that are doing things that they value

3:28:27and that they believe are the right thing to do and the last question councillor work it's a really

3:28:33simple one uh years ago i worked in in food prep back a couple of hospitals and uh we were constantly

3:28:42assaulted with new uh new ways to deal with public health which were quite meaningful

3:28:47you made mention of latex gloves our latex gloves currently in common use in food preparation

3:28:55and food services i'll be frank with you sir i don't know the answer to that as a general rule

3:29:03but in some of the conversations i had with our members about this they raised the prospect of

3:29:09if i have a employee with strawberry allergies or if i have an employee with any kind of

3:29:17allergy sort of a thing what i would do to protect that employee is have them use a single

3:29:22use latex glove which they would then have to dispose and thank you again very much thank you

3:29:29also for speaking with me yesterday as well thank you for your time councillor and appreciate your

3:29:33questions thank you councillor all councillor Caron so and thank you for your presentation i do

3:29:43understand the challenge but i'm looking at other jurisdictions i know europe is well advanced in

3:29:48this area but even closed systems thinking specifically of the university of guelph they use a

3:29:55program called reusables and it's it it's again it's a closed system where it's repeat customers

3:30:01and it's on a on a geographically defined area but up to 20 000 customers a day uh where you swap

3:30:08you're constantly swapping your reusables within that system um is there is there anything in the

3:30:14fast food industry that your industry is talking about not just here in guelph but this is this is

3:30:19going to be a national international movement in this direction and so i'm wondering more globally

3:30:25is your industry talking about um how to eliminate single use um packaging from from your entire

3:30:34industry certainly um and again i do have a i do have a colleague who recently left on

3:30:41parental leave who really is a former more of an expert on this but i'll do my best councillor um i

3:30:47think you know we have uh there there certainly are things that federal government is pursuing around

3:30:52single use plastics that will impact our industry um you know i know that there certainly are a lot

3:30:58of things that our industry has done voluntarily to reduce its its carbon footprint on packaging

3:31:05there have been a lot of rules obviously on straws uh utensils and things that guelph itself has has

3:31:11led on including the recent bylaw um there also is extended producer responsibility which currently

3:31:17is above 50 but we are looking at that and we understand the plan is for that to go to 100

3:31:23percent and to include multi residential um and uh public spaces in the foreseeable future so all

3:31:32those things are there to incent the industry uh to try to reduce its footprint and we are we are

3:31:38seeing those things um again i i have i'll practically i have limited understanding of

3:31:44what is in baff what i understand is is that's kind of more or less two parts one is in that kind

3:31:50of park environment what they have uh or in the municipality is um if you go into the restaurant

3:31:58you and you order in the restaurant they have to serve your meal to you on reusable ceramics

3:32:05and things like that um but if you say i'm going to take my food for egg out then you can have it

3:32:13in the packaging that is uh call it not reusable um on the on the piece around the containers

3:32:23um them so the customer provided containers um my understanding and one of my members sent this to

3:32:29me just like 10 15 minutes ago uh and i'm reading from the policy that was shared said any business

3:32:36falling within the business license category of restaurants bars retail transportation

3:32:41and the other uh under town a bank license number by law 2210 must have in place a written reusable

3:32:49food policy that permits customers to supply their own reusable foodware in which the business

3:32:54can serve food or drinks to the customer so to me i i see that as very vague i don't know um i i'll

3:33:02be frank with you i don't know what further might be behind that but i think what is proposed here

3:33:07is a little bit more prescriptive that said still fairly vague

3:33:16council caron did you have a follow-up okay any other questions uh councillor billings

3:33:26through you madam chair i just wanted to be clear because in our report it says that 47

3:33:31percent of wealth businesses already accept a customer's clean reusable food container

3:33:37what i'm hearing you say it's more about accepting it to go into back of house i

3:33:43wear the food is cooked and prepped i don't i don't have access to the information that

3:33:52the specifics of the report provided from your staff i don't know what questions they asked i

3:33:57don't know if they asked it in the context of will you accept a customer provided container for

3:34:03um take for leftovers i don't know if they spoke if they specifically targeted friendly

3:34:11or customers so i all i can speak to is what my members have shared and our members are again

3:34:18that's going to be a lot of the mcdonald's recipes so all of the biggest quick serve brands and some

3:34:25of the bigger independent brands as well and as you know uh court front is is a national one of our

3:34:32national board members so businesses like his are our members and what those members who we've

3:34:38engaged with have told us is is that they have concerns with this so i can't speak to anything

3:34:43that um your staff went through or would have heard from uh from the business community otherwise

3:34:50i can only tell you what my members said but your concern is the reusable food containers going into

3:34:57the back of the restaurant where the where the food prep is that is where the health risk concern

3:35:05primarily is um and you know at the same time there if you were to go on a um i don't believe

3:35:14that this really proposes that idea to say you have to provide the customer with a reusable container

3:35:23that being the other side of it um you know if you're if you're going on something like if you're

3:35:28going down that road then that potentially adds a significant cost and i don't know what that might

3:35:34necessarily look like if it might be something like what um i understand pamph is doing but there's

3:35:40two parts to it there's the cost which we cannot absorb anything which is uh going to force restaurants

3:35:46to um go to and if even if it is something like a friendlier that carries a lot of cost and all of

3:35:53those wares have to be stored somewhere um so again a member like uh like court who i think by all means

3:36:00is one of the most respected leaders and sustainability in the restaurant industry in in canada what he

3:36:05would tell you is is i use friendlier in three of my businesses but not two because i just don't

3:36:11have the space or the capacity in order to make that work so i think what we're saying is is where

3:36:16you do have businesses who can do this uh and want to do it they should they should be promoted uh

3:36:22and people in wealth should know where they can find those businesses uh that want to deliver on that

3:36:29so then for you madam chair what you're saying is you'd prefer this to be on a voluntary basis

3:36:36yes okay thank you thank you council billings councillor caton

3:36:44for you uh madam chair uh so i think there's like multiple issues that you've brought up

3:36:51um and so i kind of want to tap them one by one if you don't mind um so the the costs that you're

3:36:58mentioning is that mainly in providing the reusable containers which are more expensive than

3:37:04disposable containers uh a number of different costs so there is the reusable containers themselves

3:37:11which are more expensive um if you go with something like friendlier and it is a deposit

3:37:17based system but nonetheless it does carry a cost for the restaurants to use those

3:37:22the other side is is if you were to have something where you're saying a restaurant would have to

3:37:28have a part of its business where if a customer says i want you to do load my uh order into a

3:37:37container that i provide front of house then the restaurant would have to designate space for that

3:37:43and in a restaurant a typical chair is 14 to 20 thousand dollars in revenue so if you're saying

3:37:50you have to designate a table where a customer can uh have somebody walk out from the back

3:37:56with their food and have it loaded into that customer's container then you're asking the

3:38:00restaurant to uh forgo probably two chairs each at 14 to 20 thousand dollars revenue so

3:38:07like 40 thousand dollars revenue a typical restaurant is going to be about two million dollars in revenue

3:38:14pre-pandemic it maybe would have made 120 to 200k pre-tax profit today it is lucky if it's making 40k

3:38:22so something like this could be pretty devastating to a restaurant um there also is going to be the

3:38:28whole element of what it does to slow speed and what it does where you're demanding that you know

3:38:35there's there's retraining of staff that's involved um costs associated with that uh and your slowing

3:38:41production which can impede the customer experience and can impede a restaurant revenue so again all

3:38:48those costs that they're they're multifold but they all add up in a time um you know where we

3:38:54really are entire straight in our industry and it is literally as of today is getting a whole lot worse

3:39:00thanks um through through the chair so that that's all assuming a very specific process right and

3:39:08from what public health has said and I'm on the board of health so I'm I have full confidence

3:39:16if public health says that it's doable and it's not a concern and we've got it going on in a lot

3:39:21of restaurants right now that I believe that they they have made an assessment that uh considers all

3:39:28the risk because that's that's literally their job to make sure that all of our restaurants are safe

3:39:32in that way um and they had mentioned having trays so if someone puts something down on a tray

3:39:39and then it gets moved to the back no one's touching the the container rather than the

3:39:46person who's brought it in so there's no contamination on anything they're using tools in order to put

3:39:51the food in there there's no extra tables needed for this because the kitchen exists if they do

3:39:56to go food at all then it's the same amount of space needed to do that so in that case wouldn't

3:40:03the restaurants be saving money because people are bringing in their own containers

3:40:07so would eventually offset so council I'm trying to understand so you're saying that

3:40:14the customer would have their their container put on a tray and then it would be walked to

3:40:20the back of house uh and then someone is going to then load their meal while it's sitting on that tray

3:40:28yeah I I um respectfully I I don't see I think y'all the same issues still exist

3:40:38from a from a contamination perspective I I'm not understanding how that solves it because

3:40:45you put it on on a tray um you know the restaurant still is bringing this container into the back

3:40:51of house where other food like you know raw uh ingredients are being prepared and it still

3:40:58raises concerns and you could still so again I don't think that solves the at least my

3:41:04perspective is that doesn't solve the issue um I think you know from a custom from if restaurants

3:41:10saw this as cost saving uh and if they could do it in a way that they felt was safe then they would

3:41:16embrace it but they're not um and again I think where you're talking about programs like friendlier

3:41:22where restaurants can do that because again the container is taken away it's clean and it is

3:41:29sterilized that's something that works but it will work for some restaurants and not others

3:41:35thank you is that all council caton okay I'm going to look around the horseshoe

3:41:43I have a few questions for you Mr. Barney this motion requires a restaurant to provide a reusable

3:41:52container I'm just curious to know how many members do you think right now already provide

3:41:57compostable ones I don't know the answer to that okay um my next question is we know we have producer

3:42:08responsibility in Ontario and that is requiring restaurants to be looking at all of their

3:42:17their materials reducing their plastics etc how are restaurants um integrating the requirements of

3:42:25producer responsibility they are they're complying again so it is uh basically it's you're asking

3:42:35restaurants to cover the cost of waste and of uh of materials that they put out so that

3:42:41absolutely does create an incentive for restaurants to try to uh do a better job and select appropriate

3:42:48packaging um that there there still are a lot of challenges about you know what people at the

3:42:54household level do in terms of sorting their waste and whatnot but um but again there are certainly

3:43:00a number of incentives and things that are already in place to encourage restaurants to make

3:43:04different choices and I think you've already seen the industry move move significantly away

3:43:10from single-use plastics to again recyclable materials but you know they and we've seen the

3:43:19movement away from plastic straws and from utensils and things like that and there certainly are

3:43:25things that that wealth has done itself that you know literally got implemented in the last week or so

3:43:32um and just my last question for you um we're looking as Canadians at inter-provincial trade

3:43:39barriers and trying to bring those down can you describe for me a challenge for a restaurant that

3:43:45operates in different jurisdictions that may have uniform standard operating processes or standard

3:43:51training what happens when individual municipalities start requiring something that is not sort of

3:43:59uniform what's the operational cost or the the challenge there yeah you're right I think you

3:44:04raised a very important point and that's why you know we are as an industry what we're trying to say

3:44:09is on things like EPR and and yeah and I sit on the uh on the Manitoba um body that is similar to

3:44:17you know what you what you have in Ontario for EPR uh and the goal is there to say national

3:44:23integration so that there is a consistency in the materials that we use and the consistency

3:44:28in the rules because if you have differing materials from jurisdiction to jurisdiction

3:44:34that absolutely can add cost it can add process and to the extent where we can have

3:44:39national integration or at least provincial integration um that helps ensure that restaurants

3:44:46can prepare accordingly and can have economies of scale when we're when we're purchasing things

3:44:54so I think to your point councillor and absolutely that is an important one for our industry

3:44:59if you have a national chain that has to deal with different vendor relationships or processes

3:45:07with having to integrate individual training and all those things that come along with those

3:45:12additional costs it does create challenges for industry so thank you and Inya that is

3:45:17an important point thank you for raising it yeah uh so my last question is do you know I'm not an

3:45:24expert I'm not a lawyer don't know a lot about franchises are franchisees allowed to write their

3:45:30own processes? I think as a general rule that you're going to have most of those processes

3:45:37would come from a head office again I don't have line of sight into any specific business but I

3:45:43would think that generally that would be the case okay all right thank you thank you very much for

3:45:50your time and your expertise we appreciate it have a great day okay um Mr. Barnier was our

3:46:00only delegate we have correspondence from Restaurants Canada the neighborhood group

3:46:04and a couple of things that came in through email are there any questions for staff?

3:46:10Okay councillor Downer I've got Mayor Guthrie. Thank you I had asked some of these of staff

3:46:18previously but I wanted to sort of do it in the public realm as well so first of all there's um

3:46:25not sort of an indirect insinuation that we're not we're violating some what it's some health

3:46:31act some of the health acts so if I could are we violating the Ontario Health Protection Information

3:46:36Act or the Food Premises Regulations? So no our bylaw would not oh through you the chair

3:46:42Councillor Downer I by our law would not preclude a restaurant for meeting their requirements under

3:46:47the Ontario Premises Regulation or any other regulatory matter for them okay so they'd be

3:46:53required to do that absolutely anyway right so um in the public engagement so what percentage of

3:47:02respondents to the surveys who were from the fast food industry because that seems it's a bit of a

3:47:09pinch point but the the we all only lobby mostly by McDonald's but McDonald's was the one that was

3:47:16referenced particularly the 47 percent number who are already doing this so how many of the fast

3:47:23food industries were actually doing this? So in our survey we had a place that they could check on

3:47:30the type of food restaurant and it was called quick server fast food and it meant to counter and

3:47:36further explained a counter with either a sit down or no sit down available and approximately 33%

3:47:42of the respondents said that they do accept reusable containers that were part of that

3:47:4847% so 33% of them were fast food quick serve okay okay and then so there are other communities

3:47:56that Banth has been referenced um that are doing a similar policy are there any other

3:48:04countries or areas in Canada that are also doing this? The only one that staffers aware of is the

3:48:12town of Banth there are other locations there is the city of Victoria that is doing it inside where

3:48:19inside the premises of a person's eating it has to be reusable container or reusable

3:48:25serving ware and there's places in the states that also have that requirement but not for

3:48:30reusable containers and do you know any fast food industries that are actually you know doing

3:48:36this voluntarily already? We know that A&W accepts their own reusable cups and what about other

3:48:46local or even yeah there is local groups as the delegation commented the neighborhood group

3:48:53does have it at some other restaurants the cornerstone downtown there's Lisa Schwarma that also

3:49:00provides them Farm Boy has a friendlier company I think those ones I can think off top of my head

3:49:09okay thanks those are my questions thank you hey Mayor Guthrie thank you I just wanted to follow

3:49:18up on Councillor through you Madam Chair just wanted to follow up on Councillor Alts

3:49:22question around a pilot project just was wondering what staff's position is on that

3:49:30through the chair to Mayor Guthrie we would not be recommending a pilot as it's already

3:49:35seems to be fairly common practice in Guelph there's already I think over 45% that

3:49:41are already accepting reusable containers so I'm not sure how much a pilot would you know

3:49:47improve that needle or yeah okay that's all my questions thank you Councillor Alts

3:49:54thank you very much for your work actually my questions were asked by Mayor Guthrie and by

3:50:00Councillor Downer but it led to another one as I was listening we have 45% approximately that are

3:50:06using reusable containers and one of the issues that certainly came up for Mr. Bernier was

3:50:12essentially a cost benefit analysis question do we have any idea of what the cost benefit

3:50:18might be for various restaurants are we able to calculate this or is it just beyond the scope

3:50:25I don't think we would have the insight into their numbers or be privy to their numbers to do that

3:50:31what we do know is when we looked at other subscription services that the cost for providing

3:50:38reusable container would be more than say like a polystyrene cup but that's already been banned

3:50:44and more than like paper container but it would be less than like a more sturdy type of container

3:50:51so I would say it's in the range of what kind of prices that they're paying depending on the

3:50:57type of item that they're using and there's also no cost for them to dispose of the waste too right

3:51:01so thank you any other questions I have a few questions do you have you have a motion okay

3:51:11Miss Connell I had a couple of questions so this motion requires a food like a restaurant to provide

3:51:18reusable containers does it ban them from using a compostable container

3:51:23so the bylaws contemplated is that they must accept a customer's reusable container

3:51:29or provide their own reusable container and it would be assumed that it was upon request of the

3:51:37customer so it's not preventing anyone from using single use items it's more that if it was presented

3:51:43by the customer that they're either accepting it or providing an alternative in a reusable container

3:51:49so I'm sorry I'm not understanding though because some places instead of providing a reusable

3:51:55friendlier container in their takeout have a compostable container that would go straight into

3:52:02the green correct are we seeing they're no longer able to do that because the bylaw says you have

3:52:08to provide a reusable container or accept a customer's reusable container so they would

3:52:14have to provide reusable container if they refused the customer's reusable container so it's not

3:52:19preventing them from providing a compostable or single use item if it was never presented to them

3:52:25to take the reusable container so would they then potentially have to stock both it would be their

3:52:33option so they can either accept a customer's reusable container or in lieu of that provide a

3:52:38reusable container okay so I'm I'm going to ask a question around enforcement I know that there's

3:52:45folks who want to make this more voluntary or soften it up or have different processes and if

3:52:52the goal is to have people reduce their plastics how how do we begin to enforce that like why have

3:53:00a bylaw you can't enforce through them to you madam chair in terms of enforcement then this would

3:53:09be complaint based so if a complaint came in then then we would have enforcement officers go to the

3:53:19premises and as per usual practice we would engage in sharing information and education before we

3:53:30start giving tickets to everybody but again that would be a complaint like this would be

3:53:37prioritized against all the other complaints that our bylaw enforcement staff get so that leads me

3:53:45to my next question why not then just promote the organizations that have this and consumers who feel

3:53:52strongly about bringing their own container or obtaining a reusable container we could promote

3:53:57those businesses and I would add crafty ramen to the list that was already shared because you can

3:54:03when you do your takeout order you can ask her for friendlier containers why not just encourage

3:54:09through promotion rather than impose a cost a process change well I think you're seeing that the

3:54:16restaurants that are already doing a voluntary approach are already taking it so it's would be

3:54:20moving the needle for more environmental sustainability for those that may just not have

3:54:24thought of providing reusable containers but yet also balancing environmental outcomes with you

3:54:30know economic and opportunities right and my last question is do we know those reusable containers

3:54:40the friendlier do we know what the rate of return is on those I've heard from mr. Desotel that you

3:54:48know people mistake the box for trash can and then they throw stuff in there so there's lots

3:54:53contamination there and then there's no real guarantee that those containers are actually

3:54:56making it back to friendlier for the recycling yeah we did speak with friendlier company I can't

3:55:02remember the exact number but I feel like it was around 80% or more but I can double check that and

3:55:09get that back to council okay thank you councillor Gullar with the motion I believe I would like to

3:55:17move the staff recommendation with an amendment as suggested by by staff a couple of days ago

3:55:24if I could ask for that yeah can we do this staff recommendation first and then I need a seconder

3:55:29councillor Allt will second and now you can table your motion yeah if I may table an amendment

3:55:37and I'll ask clerks to put it up but it is that there are two exemptions two

3:55:45sections that the new sections of the single use item by law one for self-serve self-serve

3:55:51restaurants like buffet salad bars and all you can eat restaurants and the other one is for food

3:55:56service businesses that have written their own reusable container policy and I'll look for a

3:56:05seconder to that sure councillor caton will second that and if I may speak briefly I believe that

3:56:16thank you to staff for the work that you have done you have gone out you have engaged with a lot of

3:56:22businesses in the community and and I think you've done a third job and as you said we have to move

3:56:28the needle forward this council has identified that we are in a climate crisis and I think we need

3:56:35to act accordingly and I think with the provisions suggested by staff in this amendment it is making

3:56:44it more flexible for businesses and I'll let them to write a policy so that they have to acknowledge

3:56:51that this is important to the community so I think there's lots of room for organizations to

3:56:57comply in different ways but I think it will move the needle in our community.

3:57:04Okay councillor Allt has a question. Thank you very much chair work if I could please have the clerks

3:57:12put the motion back up just a question about wording because I'm not clear and I think it's

3:57:18just the nuances of the grammar in B food service businesses written their own reusable container

3:57:24policy outlining specific and limited conditions under which this bylaw will not be complied with

3:57:31if you could just clarify what the intent is it's rather difficult a bit of a word salad

3:57:36upon even though I'll turn this over to staff as it was that warning was recommended by them if I

3:57:42could yeah so it's basically saying that a food service business can write their own policy on

3:57:51how they are able to comply with the requirements under that reusable container section five or

3:57:57where they're not there were the writing processes that would exempt them from those requirements

3:58:05just to follow up to staff I'm having some problems then because this almost seems to be

3:58:12contradictory to the notion of a bylaw that there will be some restaurants that are outside the

3:58:20bylaw because they're doing their own thing so we're we're allowing people in some senses to

3:58:27buy out of it with their own ideas is that correct is that what I'm here so I would say it is

3:58:32softer language than the more prescriptive language of either accepting or providing reusable

3:58:39container but it still allows the business to think of their operations where they can and cannot

3:58:45accept a reusable container so again I feel like it's still staff would still support it that it

3:58:51is furthering the needle but also taking into account the types of processes and maybe some

3:58:56burdens that that restaurant may be having thank you very much appreciate the clarification

3:59:01thank you margothry then councillor downer yeah thank you so much

3:59:07I just wanted to ask through you about sort of how are we how are we so I'm trying to move from

3:59:13the enforcement question to more like how are we monitoring so normally bylaws whatever they are

3:59:20they come back every five years or something like that right for review how are how are we

3:59:26determining the the uptake on this how are we determining that we're actually making a difference

3:59:32because there's one thing about creating a bylaw and then maybe not having enforcement tools

3:59:36there's also creating a bylaw and then not knowing if it's even working like then why do we even do

3:59:41it so I just wondered how is staff going to be monitoring and evaluating and reporting back

3:59:48to council in the community that this bylaw is even moved moved the needle at all

3:59:53in what we're trying to achieve to the chair to count margothry yes so we would obviously go out

4:00:00and do a first education first policy it could be you know it's up to basically we're waiting for

4:00:06council to determine whether you know the motion will pass but you know within a year from now we

4:00:11could go out and survey again to see which restaurants have implemented or improved their

4:00:15policies and then report that back either on our website or to council how they may choose

4:00:20okay so through you madam chair so did I just hear you say within a year you said

4:00:24okay on a one-year basis yeah I would say would a year after implementation okay

4:00:31and so did you need that to be within a motion or not I'm okay with not if you if

4:00:37you're if it's a takeaway and you're good and then how would that be reported back like an

4:00:41information report or even just an email or in a is there an annual we do the annual

4:00:46environment and climate change and mitigation report do you think we could start to see some

4:00:52of this data uptake and and and compliance maybe mentioned within that annual report

4:01:00yes we could put it in our sustainability report okay that was the word I was looking for thank

4:01:04you I used environment climate change I was almost there okay so I think that's a good

4:01:08takeaway then at least we can get some feedback on an annual basis on the uptake of this because

4:01:14that isn't that is that is important so okay thank you very much that was the only question that I had

4:01:19councillor down it yes so so I'm concerned about how much this motion compromises the original

4:01:26intent but I hear that staff feel fairly comfortable with this motion now and then and as our staff

4:01:34that are going to be able to assess the policies that the processes that they come up with for

4:01:40themselves too it'll be our staff that see how in how they can be out of compliance

4:01:46yes so it again it would be an education first but we would be going and asking for the written

4:01:50policy um you know or you know letting them ask if they are accepting their usable containers

4:01:55are providing it and you feel confident this will still move move us in the right direction

4:01:59in 47 percent is still a good number I would say but you're going to move this we're going to be able

4:02:04to move the needle even with this that is where we're hoping to achieve okay good

4:02:10let's see we'll see you in a year okay thank you okay any other questions from council um yeah I

4:02:21think I have a question um just to pick up on you know when you think you have a question but you're

4:02:28not sure anyways just to pick up on councillor Downer's question how are staff resourced if there's

4:02:36a complaint to go into a restaurant and to ask for their written policy and to assess whether that

4:02:42policy is good enough um my question is how are we going to how are we going to apply this and then

4:02:52will that bylaw person say well the restaurant down the street actually had a better policy the

4:02:58bylaw officers not equipped to know what the health and and and safety rules are that the

4:03:05restaurant could say we're going to do reusable containers but not at rush hour we're going to

4:03:10do reusable containers but not at certain moments so who is the judge of whether that policy then

4:03:17meets the intent to the bylaw so the bylaw as the proposed amendment is to provide a written

4:03:25policy um so it wouldn't be comparing whether one restaurant's doing a better job or another

4:03:30restaurant it's whether or not they have a written policy and that they're following their written

4:03:34policy okay may i got three you have a comment thank you and three you my chair just very quick i

4:03:46i am compromising right now i i was going to try to move a motion to take no action at all

4:03:54based on the conversations and what i thought were legitimate concerns from some of the operators

4:04:00um and some of the operators like restaurant owners that are local like to us uh so i felt

4:04:09like a little bit this is a little bit big brotherish a little bit heavy on the regulatory side

4:04:17but i feel that the compromise and where i'm comfortable is where councillor callers amendment

4:04:26has been placed um through staff giving that wording i think staff acknowledged it too that

4:04:33there's there's there's somewhat of a meet in the middle opportunity here um and then i would so

4:04:39i'm i'm i'm good to go um because i do think it's the right thing to do to at least try to

4:04:46push us in that direction so that's where i'm kind of hanging my hat uh but i will say that i will be

4:04:52looking for this sort of annual feedback uh to make sure that we are not creating

4:05:00an arena or a regulatory environment that is creating more burden and not getting the outcomes

4:05:08that we want at all and so i would love to see this actually become something that we can be

4:05:14proud of that the restaurants themselves can be proud of that the patrons can be proud of

4:05:19and we can kind of coalesce around this idea that we're doing an honorable and good thing

4:05:24but that it's actually making a dent in in why we why we've done all this and then finally

4:05:30madam chair through you um this is my second time maybe harnessing councillor clausen but i

4:05:36just want to give her a little bit of a pat on the back like she she she kind of you know push this

4:05:40forward oh a year ago or whenever it was i remember we were in kind of committee like this and we're

4:05:45thinking oh maybe we could do this and and so i think her idea had warrant was warranted there

4:05:51we've seen it through two revisions until today to the second phase um there's been a lot of work

4:05:57and engagement on it so i feel like it deserves a chance and uh so i just want to thank staff and

4:06:03thank councillor clausen um as well and i feel comfortable at least at this compromise position

4:06:09to date on this so thank you madam chair okay uh i was going to go to council all but uh dc al

4:06:16holmes wants to say something um thank you and through the through the chair to committee so i

4:06:21just want to mention in terms of the reporting um this is a bylaw that will be starting on september

4:06:27the first of this year so to get a full year of reporting is going to be september 2026

4:06:33and that will be after the sustainability report for 2026 you're actually not going to see reporting

4:06:37until 2027 so i just i just wanted to provide that clarification and we will also take back between now

4:06:44and council just the resource requirements what's that going to take to get that reporting because

4:06:48i don't think we've fully thought that through yet i think we're interested in we're interested in

4:06:52kpi's we're always interested in seeing how things um how things materialize after we put a bylaw in

4:06:59place and i agree if it's not measured it's not done um so we need to know that we're making a

4:07:04difference but i between now and and council we'll just take a look and see what it's going to take in

4:07:09terms of uh resourcing to make sure that we get you some meaningful results

4:07:15hey councillor Allt thank you very much uh chair work uh like mayor guthrie i am going to support

4:07:21this um i initially was not going to because i actually thought that the uh recommendation

4:07:26stood well the way that it was however what i think is really important about this is that

4:07:31guelph has been a leader in many areas such as the smoking ban uh which we went with baby steps

4:07:38until finally provincially and federally we have uh smoking bans uh if it takes baby steps and it

4:07:45takes unanimity of council to point that we're going in the right direction i would rather go

4:07:51with something that i think doesn't get me all the way but gets me toward the goal so with that i'd

4:07:56certainly like to thank the mayor and others for supporting this i i think it's it's a start

4:08:01even though i didn't entirely understand the language until you explained it to me thank you

4:08:07any other comments okay then i will call the vote on the amendment is anyone opposed to the

4:08:15amendment okay none opposed so that passes unanimously and i'll call vote on the main motion

4:08:25as amended um is anyone opposed to the main motion as amended okay that passes unanimously okay

4:08:38we move on to the vision zero action plan 2025-12 we have a presentation a trio of presenters