Committee of the Whole

1:33All right, everyone. Thank you very much for joining our committee meeting.

1:37It is Wednesday, July 5th, 2023.

1:39It is 2 o'clock p.m.

1:40So I'm calling the meeting officially to order.

1:43And with that, we're going to go right to our agenda, which means we're going to start with O Canada.

1:50Thank you. And as we continue, let's have a moment of silent reflection.

3:22Great. Thank you.

3:36And as we gather, we're reminded that Guelph is situated on treaty land that is steeped in rich Indigenous history

3:42and home to many First Nations, Inuit and Métis people today.

3:45As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship of the land in which we both live and work.

3:50Today, we acknowledge that Mississaugas are the credit First Nation of the Initia-Bak peoples on whose traditional territory we are meeting.

3:57Any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof?

4:02Hearing and seeing none.

4:06Thank you very much. We'll move on.

4:08And we have a staff recognition to kick things off here today for us.

4:13It is my pleasure to recognize someone that we work with very closely, especially as members of council.

4:20I'm excited to share that Dylan McMahon, the city's manager of legislative services, and one of our deputy city clerks,

4:29has received his accredited Ontario Municipal Clerk designation from the Association of Municipal Managers, Clerks and Treasurers of Ontario.

4:38The AOMC designation certifies the core education, experience and professional contributions achieved by the recipient

4:47and supports the rigor required to serve as a municipal clerk in Ontario.

4:53The designation...

4:55I'm probably repeating myself now. I lost myself. Sorry, Dylan, you've got to help me.

5:00Oh, here we go. It establishes professional standard for municipal clerks.

5:04It drives the profession forward and ensures a continued professional commitment to continuous learning and development.

5:11The clerks role, and indeed our deputy clerks role, is a statutory one.

5:16It's required under legislation by each of Ontario's municipalities.

5:21Municipal clerks and deputy clerks play a very important role.

5:27Sorry, I'm just having trouble seeing right now. Something's going on with my eye.

5:32Sorry, everybody, just one second. I'm just emotional because it's Dylan, you know.

5:57He's so near and dear to my heart. Sorry about that. Something really weird just happened with my eye.

6:05I'm going to repeat. Municipal clerks and deputy clerks play an important part in the effective management and operation of municipal organizations.

6:13The AOMC designation establishes a high standard by promoting the unique value, elements and professional requirements for municipal clerks in Ontario.

6:23These duties require strong leadership, organizational, political and legislative knowledge in order to effectively manage services,

6:31policy processes and various matters of legislative compliance.

6:35Please join me in congratulating Dylan McMahon on receiving this accreditation and for the mayor finally getting to the end of reading this.

6:43Thank you, Dylan.

6:47We have a certificate here that you've received and hopefully I can see my way up to meeting you and I think we'll meet with the CAO over by the wall here.

7:03Okay, thank you. And maybe you as well, Stephen, as our clerk as well.

7:08Great.

7:09All right, everybody. Thank you for that time. And again, congratulations to Dylan.

8:54All right, we're starting off our committee with the first section, which lucky everybody, it's me. It's governance.

9:04And I'm actually, I'm pretty, I'm pretty excited about this.

9:09This one, it's the Future Guelph Strategic Plan. It's our, our OUR, it's everybody's strategic plan here that we've been working on for several months together as a team.

9:20And I would just say that's a team of input from, yes, the community of course, but for both our staff and council together.

9:29And this is really our, our, our guidebook for the next few years together as a team about the things that we know are important for everybody and are going to help guide us as we make decisions.

9:42And, you know, it's been a lot of heavy lifting, I would say, to get us to this point. I think it's, it's really exciting.

9:49And I'll have a bit more to say about it, obviously, but we do have presentation, several presenters from our staff that are going to kind of walk us through it on where we've landed a couple delegations as well.

10:00And then we'll come back to us hopefully to approve. It'd be a great document to see established. So at this time we'll turn over to our CAO, Scott Stewart to kick us off.

10:11Great. Thank you very much, Mr. Marin. I'm especially pleased with your last comments there as well. So let's not forget that, but good afternoon, Council.

10:19Today, I'm excited to present to you the city's strategic plan for 2024 to 2027 Future Guelph.

10:26I'm of course joined by our executive team and several members of our general managers or our corporate management team to take you through the strategic themes and objectives, as well as to highlight a few strategic initiatives.

10:39Future Guelph is the next evolution of the 2019 to 2023 Guelph Future Ready strategic plan.

10:46And while we're transitioning to a new chapter, Future Guelph carries forward long-term initiatives from Guelph Future Ready initiatives like the climate adaption plan and projects like the South End Community Center.

10:58They are still council priorities and part of Future Guelph as they will help us shape our city for years to come.

11:06Over the next four years, Future Guelph will be an important tool for communicating council priorities to city staff in the community.

11:13And Future Guelph is a living document and as things change and progress, it is designed to be flexible and adaptable and sure and we're ready for the future.

11:22And we can change when needed.

11:24Before we move into the presentation, I certainly like to thank members of council and staff for the important contributions made over the last nine months to get us here today.

11:33I'm very articulated.

11:34I can't thank you enough.

11:36We've spent lots of time on it, but we needed that time and we're here with this final product for you today.

11:41Just as a little reminder, after the April 25th strategic plan council workshop, individual follow-up happened with council through staff that worked diligently to incorporate your feedback.

11:52So I'd also like to recognize the incredible work done to buy our community to develop Guelph's community plan.

12:00So again, a lot with us, but also a lot with community members.

12:03And so that community plan, a united vision and the community engagement team in the work done across our master plan and projects.

12:11The voices that have guided that work are embedded in Future Guelph.

12:16The participation and support across the organization as well as the community over the last few years have led to the creation of a plan that we can proudly call our own.

12:25One that is truly Guelph-y.

12:28I speak for staff and myself when I say that I'm excited to work alongside council to see the actions in Future Guelph come to life and continue to make Guelph a great place for people to live, work and play.

12:39Now, just before I jump into this strategy, I want to speak for a moment about how important the plan is, especially in light of how quickly things can change around us.

12:50We've been experiencing some of that lately.

12:52The plan are collective ambition.

12:54You've heard of how to call it our North Star.

12:57And whether it's leading with accountability to increase trust and transparency in local government or maintain in our city's healthy financial position.

13:05This plan is built on a solid foundation that we will rely on to guide us through all kinds of change and certainly in times of these change.

13:14So let us move into the main event.

13:16First, let's look at the overview of Future Guelph.

13:20On page five, our strategy at a glance covers the major parts of the plan.

13:24Mission, vision, values and the strategic themes and objectives.

13:29These postcards that are before you, all these little postcards here, pocket sized versions of the plan.

13:35And a well structured strategic plan begins with its vision, mission and values set in a tone for how we go about doing our business.

13:42While objectives and initiatives can change over the years, our vision, mission and values are long term.

13:49Our vision, the overarching direction for our organization is for Guelph to be an inclusive connected, connected, prosperous city where we look after each other and our environment.

14:00Our mission, the purpose of our organization is working together to deliver responsible, responsive and professional public services to Guelph's grown and diverse community.

14:12And our values, the approach we take in our decisions and actions are embedded in five areas, integrity, service, inclusion, wellness and learning.

14:21So when we begin the strategic plan and process for Future, when we began it for Future Guelph, we engaged staff on how relevant our vision, mission and values were.

14:30And we were thrilled to hear that staff overwhelmingly indicated that they still resonated with them and it regularly helped them guide their work.

14:39Our vision, mission and values carries us forward into the future.

14:43To guide us through the rest of the Future Guelph strategy at glance, I'd like to invite Jody Sales, our general manager for strategy innovation and intergovernmental services to run us through the rest of it.

14:53Jody.

14:54Thanks, CAO Stuart. And for those of you following us at home, the page numbers that we will be referring to throughout the presentation can be found on attachment one of our presentation today.

15:07As mentioned Future Guelph is an evolution of our previous plan. Immediately you can see that our pillars have evolved into what we're now calling strategic themes.

15:15We actually have one less theme than before and that's because navigating our future has been combined with building our future into what we're calling city building.

15:23This helps us tell a more holistic story about how our objectives are a team effort from across the corporation.

15:30Our themes for Future Guelph are foundations, city building, environment and people in economy.

15:36And on page three of the plan you'll see definitions of the components of our strategy.

15:41Our strategic themes are the broad areas we're focusing on that connect the strategic initiatives and actions together.

15:47The strategic objectives are how we're achieving the vision and our council priorities.

15:53The initiatives are those supporting actions and what we're doing to realize those objectives.

15:58Future Guelph's themes, objectives and initiatives are all interconnected and as you'll hear the progress made in one theme supports progress made in the others.

16:07I'm now thrilled to turn it over to my colleagues who are going to guide us through a deeper dive into each strategic theme.

16:14I'll first introduce Stephen O'Brien, general manager of the city clerk's office to talk about our foundations.

16:20Thanks GM Sales and I can say that it was a really exciting and beneficial and rewarding opportunity to be involved in the development of the strategic plan.

16:34On page six you'll find the foundations theme.

16:38It's an important theme for staff as it focuses internally on how we do things as an organization and where we need to improve.

16:45This foundation or this theme story is how we as an organization prioritize culture and staff, advocate for issues affecting wealth and improve ourselves internally to make better decisions.

16:57It is how we responsibly manage our resources and assets and how we work to provide excellent service to our community.

17:03While we won't have time to review every initiative in Future Guelph, we will be highlighting a select few to counsel that help us tell the story of each theme.

17:11So for the foundations theme under lead with accountability on page 10, we have initiative 3.4, which is foster a culture of continuous improvement.

17:20Continuous improvement is an important part of our city and embodies our corporate value of learning that Scott Stewart spoke about earlier.

17:27By fostering this improvement culture, we strengthen the mindset that helps us more value, sorry, that helps us provide more value to the community.

17:36Since the continuous improvement office first opened in 2019, their lean belt program has been a positive force in our organization.

17:43Last year the lean yellow belt program helped my own team and my own department establish an improved commenting process for planning applications, minor variances and consents.

17:53And as an international team excellence award finalist, led by a gentleman sitting at the center of the table there, Mr. Juan de Silva.

18:01The project saved 4.75 hours of staff time per cycle and reduced extra staff communications by 72%. And that's well above the 15% target that we had.

18:12Imagine what we could accomplish as we support and promote these types of improvements on an ongoing basis.

18:19The fostering of a continuous improvement culture will continue to help us build on how we do things across all of the city's service areas.

18:27Moving on to page 12. Our next initiative is 5.1 improve customer service through the service simplified strategy.

18:33And what I can say is ongoing implementation of our service simplified strategy. As you well know, will help us work toward ensuring employees understand the city's commitment to customers and colleagues, wealth, good service standards, and how we as an organization collectively meet those standards.

18:49By working together, we can increase the public's trust in city government, which is foundational to service simplified through good service experiences.

18:56Using performance data and customer feedback, the city can improve how we design and deliver services, meaning that our customers can receive consistently good service using whatever their preferred channel is, whether that's online, by email, phone, or in person.

19:10Service simplified is what we're doing internally to benefit everything we do as a city.

19:15I'll turn your attention out to page 13. An important part of provide excellent service is initiative 5.3, which is remove barriers by integrating Guelph's equity lens into everything we do.

19:26Our community plan acknowledges that racism, discrimination, and exclusion unfortunately exist in many forms.

19:34As an institution, we need to strive to eliminate racism and colonialism that's embedded in our structural systems.

19:40Building on this acknowledgement, our equity lens is the first step in taking concrete actions toward eliminating barriers that are embedded in city policy, programs, and services.

19:50The equity lens will help us ensure that everyone in our community feels welcomed and able to meaningfully participate in all the places and spaces that we offer that participation.

20:01As you can see, foundation supports and enables the other three theme areas. It aims to improve everything we do as a city.

20:09If progress does not happen in this theme, there will be limited success in the other themes identified city building environment and people in economy.

20:17At this point, I'll hand it over to my colleague Terry Gaiman, general manager of engineering and transportation services to discuss city building. Thank you.

20:31Thank you, Mr. O'Brien and good afternoon council. I'm excited to be here to talk about something that is near and dear to my heart and that is city building.

20:39The city building aspects of the strategic plan are incredible and you have an incredible city staff that is very passionate about this line of work and about making meaningful change in our community.

20:49For those of you who've seen me speak before, you know that I'm passionate about this work as well and we work hard to deliver in this space every day.

20:56So let's jump in starting on page 14 city building focuses on supporting housing growth and wealth.

21:02While also investing in city infrastructure and programming to grow our services and improve how we get around.

21:09They also look at the people aspect of city building by celebrating culture and improving our cities parks and recreational services.

21:17So let's jump to page 19 and the objective make it easy to get around.

21:22I'll direct your attention to initiative 8.2 improve movement across the city by implementing the transportation master plan, which is focused on building a local transportation network that can work for everyone, no matter how you move around our city.

21:36While navigating is no longer a theme in future golf, it still plays a significant role in city building and the transportation master plan informs infrastructure improvements, policy developments and programs to establish alternative transportation, like biking, walking and taking transit.

21:53This also means we're improving golf active transportation network through investments, and we're also improving transit and trails.

22:00And it's important to note that this initiative is made up of supporting actions that are needed for its success.

22:05Our first supporting action is to make it easier for people getting around through vision zero.

22:10Bringing this global initiative to go up will help ensure everyone gets around more safely by changing our road system designs and policies. We can help reduce the chance of death or serious injury from collisions.

22:23Next, we'll align our fair structure for transit parking and other potential paid transportation options like e scooters to make it more appealing for people to choose alternative methods of transportation.

22:34This will help us achieve Council's directives for managing congestion and achieving our race to zero carbon reduction goals.

22:41It's truly amazing how many strategic alignments there are with this particular set of work.

22:47Our third action is to ensure wheeling and walking routes are available and accessible year round so people have easy and affordable transportation options any day of the year.

22:57And lastly, we'll make transit more affordable, attractive, accessible and equitable by connecting this work through Guelph Transit Future Ready Action Plan and Transit's Fair Strategy.

23:08We'll improve commute times, lessen congestion and reduce harmful vehicle emissions.

23:13Initiative 8.2 is another great example of how initiatives from one theme, in this case city building, help contribute to the success of another theme like environment.

23:23As we improve transportation across Guelph, we make it easier for people to walk to work or bike to the park.

23:29These activities improve people's health, reduce emissions from driving and make it better for the environment overall.

23:36I'll now hand it over to Doug Godfrey, General Manager of Operations to cover the rest of the city building highlights.

23:42Thank you, Mr. Gaman. Let's now flip to page 18 and take a look at grow and care for our community spaces and places.

23:55Initiative 7.1, Building Self End Community Center.

24:00This is a major infrastructure project that will support growth in the south end of Guelph as well as improve the health and wellness of the surrounding community.

24:08With construction expected to begin in fall 2023 and doors opening in late 2026, this multi-use facility will provide the community with more access to recreational services and a community hub for people to gather, connect and engage with the community.

24:24Interconnected with our environment theme, the South End Community Center is also designed to be a net zero carbon standard helping mitigate climate change.

24:37The South End Community Center will further improve the quality of life and well.

24:43Another large component of the grow and care for our community spaces and places on page 18 is initiative 7.3.

24:52Attract more people to our parks and programs by making them easier to access and enjoy.

24:59Parks and recreation spaces play an important role in supporting the physical and mental well-being of our community.

25:05With our facility spaces being well used and loved by the people of Guelph, they will also provide venues for larger sporting and non-sporting events supporting our people and economy theme.

25:18Communities also need parks, recreation facilities and programs that are inclusive, adaptable and have the built-in ability to respond to a growing and diverse community.

25:29As these things help connect people to each other and promote healthier living.

25:34It is important to note that this initiative is made up of supporting actions that are needed for its success, bringing together actions for both parks and recreation.

25:44Our first supporting action is to complete our outdoor sport field and surface strategy.

25:49This strategy will provide guidance on where and how to invest in our outdoor sports facilities to support the health of our community including outdoor sports services like soccer, baseball, cricket, tennis and pickleball.

26:06The next supporting action is to implement our culture plan 2030.

26:10Arts and culture contribute to a vibrant, healthy and safe community where people feel connected, included and celebrated.

26:18We expect Guelph's culture plan to increase opportunities for artists to create and present their work and for locals and visitors to engage in cultural experiences that are accessible, inclusive and thought-provoking.

26:31Artists and presenters will have access to funding, coaching, space and other resources that contribute to their success, making Guelph an ideal community for creative people and events.

26:43Our last action under growing care for our community spaces and places is implementing our Guelph Trail Master Plan.

26:51Trails are essential for recreation, health and mobility.

26:54The development of an inclusive, connected, sustainable trail network offers the community diverse experiences, fosters an active and healthy lifestyle and showcases Guelph's natural and cultural assets.

27:07In 2027, Guelph's active transportation network will connect the city from all points with a 54-kilometer network of paths and trails.

27:17People of all ages and abilities will be able to use the network all year round, supporting the reduction of harmful vehicle emissions.

27:25What we accomplish in city building also elevates what we will work toward an environment as well as in people and economy.

27:42Let's over to our next theme, beginning on page 20, the environment.

27:46This theme focuses on the city's role in environmental stewardship to reduce corporate greenhouse gas emissions and energy use, protect and improve our green spaces and support community climate change action.

28:00Our corporate responsibilities to address climate change include several exciting things like expanding our tree canopy, investing in green technology, and ensuring our assets and infrastructure are ready for the impacts of a changing world.

28:14Looking at page 23, be a leader in climate action is an initiative that is near and dear to me.

28:20Initiative 9.5 reduced Guelph's carbon footprint by investing in zero emissions vehicles for our fleet. This supports our commitment to meet our race to zero target.

28:31Well, first electric bus is currently on the road as we speak.

28:35I had the privilege of riding in it with many members of council when it arrived earlier this year.

28:41Electrifying and scaling Guelph's fleet helps reduce Guelph's carbon footprint and is an investment in green infrastructure that supports long term city growth.

28:50This initiative brings electric buses, electric and hybrid light vehicles, electric ice surfacers, resurfacers and electric work utility carts to Guelph with simpler EV designs reducing maintenance costs throughout its life.

29:04These investments set the stage beyond 2027 as technology matures to transition our heavy works vehicles and equipment such as sweepers, backhoes and waste trucks.

29:15Our electric buses are just some of the things we're doing to become leaders in climate action.

29:19As I said, Guelph is the first Canadian property to receive the Nova bus LFSE plus large battery bus.

29:26We now have three on property and lead smaller municipalities in the industry and get our orders fulfilled.

29:33I would like to introduce, I would now like to introduce Nectar, Tampa, Coppola's general manager of environmental services to further discuss our environment.

29:47Thank you very much, Mr. Godfrey.

29:49Well done on the name.

29:51Continue on page 23 with be a leader in climate action. We have initiative 9.3 mitigate the impacts of climate change by increasing tree canopy coverage.

30:05Focusing on the expansion of Guelph's tree canopy coverage.

30:08Our trees for a part of the city's green infrastructure, which sustains the community by filtering air pollution, providing shade contributing to flood control.

30:17Reducing local energy use and sequestering carbon and bringing nature to the city.

30:22Long term investments in Guelph's tree canopy requires new funding models and leveraging grants and partnerships for its success.

30:30Improving the sustainability of Guelph's urban forest includes increasing Guelph's canopy covered to 40% of total land area in the city by 2070.

30:40While a sustainable urban forest provides environmental benefits.

30:44It also adds social cultural and economic benefits as our community continues to grow.

30:50You cannot have a healthy city without healthy people.

30:53So while this lives under the environment theme, our trees are also crucial to city building.

30:58Moving to page 25 under empower the community to help create a sustainable city.

31:04We have initiative 10.2 make homes.

31:08More energy efficient by implementing the Guelph greener homes program.

31:13This is how we're supporting the community to invest in green technology to reduce climate change impacts.

31:18Until now we have focused on what we're doing to address climate change.

31:22Here is where we focus on what we're doing to empower our community.

31:26The Guelph greener homes program will assist residents reduce their greenhouse gas emissions and make their homes more energy efficient.

31:33Comfortable and climate friendly.

31:36This program will help spur economic growth within the city's clean tax sector.

31:40This program is an important step toward bringing the city and community together to make Guelph a greener, more sustainable city.

31:47As we advance our environmental theme and our race to net zero goals.

31:51Our recently released environmental sustainability report highlights our outcomes, accomplishments and opportunities for improvement.

32:00Now to take us through our final theme. I'd like to introduce Stacy Dunnegan acting general manager for economic development and tourism.

32:13Thank you, Mr. Dan, preropolis.

32:15I'm excited to kick us off for the people and economy theme. So let's start on page 26.

32:21This theme focuses on what we're doing to support our people, including creating a healthy downtown with beautiful community spaces and convening to address systemic gaps, challenges and opportunities in Guelph.

32:33In addition, by supporting our businesses through various means, including circular economy work, we make Guelph more attractive for new and existing businesses.

32:43So let's go to page 28 initiative 11.1 support businesses, tourism and investment attraction to Guelph by implementing the economic development and tourism strategy.

32:54Focused on our next steps for supporting the economy and how we're addressing obstacles faced by our local businesses.

33:01From that strategy, we're working toward becoming a backbone organization for local business intelligence and coordination.

33:08This helps us inform grow Guelph partners such as the innovation Guelph and the University of Guelph as we collectively build a resilient economy and make policy and programming decisions together.

33:20We're also taking action by developing marketing plans for investment attraction and tourism.

33:26This will help us communicate Guelph's value proposition and raise our profile to attract visitors and businesses.

33:34As Guelph continues to grow, we're proactively working to connect our landowners to potential investors to see underutilized land developed to bring in new jobs and businesses and innovations.

33:46And as we look to diversify and strengthen our economy, we're establishing targeted training and support for the tourism industry to help businesses become more resilient, connected and well informed.

33:59This helps our tourism industry become more competitive and contributes to Guelph becoming a must see visitor destination.

34:07Finally, by focusing on public space planning, design and management and investing in infrastructure that contributes to Guelph visitor experience, Guelph becomes a city where people want to live, work, play and visit.

34:20To take us through the people side of people and economy and some of the things we're doing there, I'd like to invite Miss Sales.

34:26Thanks, Miss Dennegan. We're almost there.

34:32So now let's look at page 29 as we shift our attention from what we're doing to support our economy to what we're doing to support our people.

34:38Initiative 13.1, convene the community to advance the goals of Guelph's community plan under support community well-being.

34:45Focuses on our role as conveners together with local organizations, governments, communities and people to collaborate on achieving our community vision.

34:54With Guelph's community plan as the guide, we seek to create a cycle of convening, identifying and co-creating equitable solutions that call upon organizations, stakeholders, communities and people to come together to bring about positive and lasting change.

35:09Our role as conveners helps achieve the objectives of future Guelph and is an important way that we can support Guelph's community plan goals.

35:17What we do in people and economy is interconnected in our city building and environment themes.

35:23For example, Miss Dennegan mentioned the growing number of local businesses involved in the circular economy.

35:29When this happens, we help our businesses grow, we promote the reuse of materials and we reduce the environmental impacts of waste.

35:37To wrap this up, I'll add that while our general managers have presented a few initiatives from each of our strategic themes, we all work together both across the organization as well as through our community to achieve future Guelph's objectives.

35:50We're one city with a shared purpose, but we know our future successes will be achieved together.

35:56So let's discuss the next steps for future Guelph.

35:59Upon council's adoption of the plan, staff will begin the process of departmental business plans and work plans, having already begun our multi-year budget planning.

36:07These phases are in line with our strategic planning cycle where first we plan, then we budget, later on we report.

36:14The strategic planning cycle is a recognized best practice to keep planning, budgeting and reporting interconnected.

36:19And we continue to enhance and adopt this approach and improve it. We take pride in knowing that our efforts are being recognized by local municipalities who've reached out to us to ask us for advice in how they can.

36:32Adapt their planning and multi-year budgeting and reporting processes.

36:36Over the summer, staff will also work to refine and update the key performance indicators for future Guelph.

36:41An information report will be shared with council in the fall regarding the final key performance indicators, including targets for the next four years.

36:48And with that, I'll hand it over to Miss Baker to talk about the 2024 and 2022-2027 multi-year budget process.

37:00Thanks. So over the two years, we've worked to align our budget with the strategic plan to complete the full cycle strategic planning, the full circle of strategic planning.

37:11Future Guelph will be the guiding plan for the city's first four-year multi-year budget. And like it's always been, it will be the tool that sets the pace and scope at which we can action the plan.

37:22This approach will help us to balance affordability with progress.

37:27Our collective commitment to balance progress with affordability and fiscal responsibility is part of Future Guelph.

37:34Initiative 4.1 foundations maintain our financial health.

37:39The budget process with council starts in October, beginning discussions on how Future Guelph will be resourced.

37:45Our commitment is that the budget requirements, the timing and expected outcomes from that investment are clearly presented for council to make informed implementation decisions.

37:57By December, it's anticipated the budget will have been adopted with Future Guelph implementation moving forward immediately following.

38:04While the public budget process starts in October, behind the scenes staff across the entire organization are doing full-scale budget planning now.

38:13We have listened to you and the community and made adjustments and improvements to the process.

38:18We will continue to provide a variety of options to engage with staff and the community during this process. Budget education sessions, town halls will all be part of that.

38:28We have developed a new website that is more contained, easier to navigate and more streamlined for that budget material for your review.

38:37And finally, while we are maintaining a strong alignment with Future Guelph, we will also return to a more departmental layout in the dashboard that we heard loud and clear was a significant challenge in navigation.

38:52So like always, the continuous improvement approach to budget builds confidence in our process, enhances clarity and transparency of our budget process, and enables council to make informed decisions.

39:04Future Guelph is our North Star, a living document and our budget spanning the same timeframe is the tool that puts it all into action.

39:12I like, I like many other staff are proud to have been part of the development of Future Guelph.

39:17The collective work of both council and staff have helped to set the stage for meaningful budget conversation and decisions.

39:25And 2024 will be an exciting year when we can begin or continue these initiatives in Future Guelph. Thank you for your time and attention this afternoon.

39:34And I'll now hand the floor back to our mayor.

39:41All right. Hey, thanks everyone for walking us through that with the highlights really, really appreciate it.

39:47And for those at home, you aren't holding, you know, the actual hard copy in your hand of holding it up here but I know it's part of our package but just good work on the printing of this it's a nice little document to have and again thank you for everyone all the work that you've done.

40:05We do have a couple of delegations. And so I'm going to start with John Fisher who's no known here.

40:18And John is with the Guelph Hiking Trail Club, wanting to speak on the strategic plan in front of us here. John, thank you very much for coming.

40:29And I will, you have everyone has five minutes and I will start the clock as soon as you start talking. John again, thank you. Go right ahead.

40:40Sorry, John, I'm going to stop the clock there just to hit the button there for the green to go on. There you go. You start you go ahead.

40:46Mr. Mayor, councillors, city staff.

40:50Congratulations on the on the work you did on the on Future Guelph. It's a wonderful document.

40:57I want to talk about the Future Guelph strategic plan refresh and its relationship to the G to G gap. A segment of the Guelph Trailway.

41:06The strengths weaknesses opportunities and threats attachment number six specifically named the Guelph to Godridge trail as an example to improve connections to other communities.

41:18To take advantage of that opportunity. The city has to safely close the G to G gap between Woodlawn and Silver Creek.

41:26The Future Guelph document informs departmental planning work plans and the 2024 2077 multi year budget.

41:35Parks have place marked funding to address the G to G gap beyond the 2027 multi year budget window.

41:44In 2021, council approved the trails master plan that made closing the G to G gap. The number one city building trails priority.

41:55It was number one, because it was a high impact project with a high profile because it connected a stranded piece of the transgender trail.

42:04And because it had a huge public appeal and support. The city cannot let the number one priority be a future ready tomorrow initiative.

42:15It's not just a parks opportunity. Closing the G to G gap requires the Guelph junction railway to be an active participant.

42:24The 2022 G J R annual report mentions grading improvements and trail connectivity opportunities that are being taken into consideration for a potential trail system between Woodlawn Road and its end of track in 2023.

42:43A safe G to G connection is critical now because the historic informal trailway pedestrians and cyclists used to use to access the G to G is closed.

42:54Closure is the result of G J R installing rail infrastructure for a new trans loading customer.

43:02G J R has a responsibility to the city of Guelph taxpayer, another key customer to complete the grading and connectivity improvements, which are a prerequisite to building the new trail on their R o W independent of other customers development timing.

43:20Parks needs to complement that construction timeline, which means it must cycle. Economic and development and tourism, which includes G J R would all benefit from closing the gap.

43:38For example, tourism, a priority sector for economic development has targeted initiatives like bike tourism expansion, Ontario by bike, bike friendly Guelph. All those initiatives would benefit from a safe, intuitive G to G downtown connection.

43:57The transport master plan says the city will support the ongoing enhancement of a bicycle network, which includes providing bicycle paths along rail lines.

44:08It also says the city will support connections to and from provincial and regional cycling routes that facilitate opportunities for tourism and travel to from and through Guelph.

44:24Separated trailways like the G to G are the holy grail of bike infrastructure. We already have separation from Mcdonald's speed bill. We can add to that network by completing the G to G gap and positively impact vision zero, mode share targets and race to zero.

44:45The trail user groups ask that council make this connectivity link part of this future ready strategic plan by directing staff to adhere to the trails master plan number one priority.

44:58Close the gap and pull forward that the place mark funding from his current status as a tomorrow project to inclusion in the 2024 2027 multi year budget.

45:12The safety, health and economic vibrancy of citizens and businesses, businesses of the city of Guelph will all benefit from your leadership. Thank you.

45:24Thank you. Great. Thank you, John. Appreciate you coming and presenting today. Let me just see if there's a follow up before we go to our next delegation.

45:32Okay, not at this time, but thank you very much. Thank you.

45:36And the next one is Lorenz.

45:39Lorenz. I think joining us by video, if I recall. So yeah, Lorenz, it's Mayor Guthrie. There you are. I can see you. I just want to make sure we can hear you. Can you just check your audio for me?

45:56Can you hear me?

45:58Yeah, you're coming through great. I'm just going to start the clock here for you whenever you're ready. And again, you have up to five minutes if you need it. Go right ahead.

46:04Hello, everyone. My name is Lorenz Calcagno. I'm the chair of the Guelph Trailway, which is the Guelph section of the Guelph to Godrich Rail Trail, a charitable nonprofit.

46:14The rail trail is roughly 145 kilometers to Godrich from here. It's also a spur connector of the Trans Canada Trail, the G to G, and it's broken into five sections.

46:24The smallest lands in the city en route ours, Guelph. It's 7.6 kilometers long, which connects downtown Guelph to the Kissing Bridge Trailway.

46:34The Guelph section is the gateway for the Golden Horseshoe to the Toll G to G. However, as mentioned, there's a three kilometer missing section that puts users onto Silver Creek Parkway.

46:44Therefore, many users bypass Guelph altogether and begin their journey of the Guelph to Godrich Rail Trail outside of Guelph, starting on Silver Creek.

46:54That includes most Guelphites and a few counselors I've seen. It's worth mentioning that this missing gap is the only missing piece of the Trans Canada Trail in Ontario.

47:04Funding is available to complete this, but the city hasn't sought it yet.

47:07We, the G to G organization of volunteers, resurfaced the G to G Rail Trail from Silver Creek to Godrich in 2020 with a complete roadbed foundation rebuild between Elmira and Milverton at a cost of $253,000 with $76,000 grant from Amaphrah,

47:27and which included wayfinding signs every kilometer.

47:31We currently hold 20 legal landowner agreements with an additional 60 curated handshake agreements. Our partners in this project, as you mentioned earlier with John Fisher and the Guelph Hiking Trail Club, hold 48 legal landowner agreements.

47:46I've been working with this Guelph City staff since 2019 to complete this three kilometer missing section of the G to G TCT connection.

47:57As you know, future Guelph sets the direction and goals for Guelph's coming budget.

48:02Although the G to G TCT connection has been in trail master plans since 2005 and was scheduled to have been completed in 2010, it still has no budget allocation in this next multi-year budget.

48:15The G to G Rail Trail wishes to take this opportunity to emphasize the values outlined in future Guelph's strategic plan to ensure that Council's explicit wishes and direction for the number one priority project of the Guelph Trails Master Plan has funding in this coming budget.

48:30So it might be implemented in a timely manner.

48:33As it currently stands, it will not be completed in the career span of the current staff overseeing it.

48:39Very few parks and trails projects can boast a return on investment. This one can.

48:44And more than most other city projects.

48:48An entire town in Florida boasts its economic success is completely due to investing in a rail trail that ran through it.

48:55It's important to know that the largest population cohort, the ones with all the money, the ones with pensions and paid off homes, the baby boomers, they are all mostly retired and they want to stay active.

49:07By and large, their knees aren't great and they like to ride bikes.

49:10They don't like traffic and they're not fond of hills.

49:13They're vacationing and touring around, visiting interesting places and spending their money.

49:18Rail trails are full of gray-haired people who have no problem getting a comfy room and a lovely dinner before heading out again the next day.

49:26Guelph is missing out on all of that and we have the data to support it.

49:31We delivered economic impact statements from those jurisdictions inside Canada and the U.S. that show an incredible return on investment for rail trail development.

49:38I worked with John Regan, the head of economic development to illustrate the great gains for the city and he assured me he would bring these findings to Council Mayor, senior staff and other departments.

49:50I hope you've seen those.

49:52For less than the price of a soccer field or a baseball dime, this project can be completed.

49:56This needs to be in the parks trails budget now.

49:59However, this is also an economic development tourism project, a downtown project as well.

50:03It needs the cooperation from multiple departments and city-held assets.

50:09Speak with anyone from the following towns en route and you'll be told of the positive economic impact from the GDG.

50:16Elmira, Wallenstein, Linwood, Millbank, Milburton, Monkton, Walton, Blythe, Auburn and Godrich.

50:22And they'll also ask you, why hasn't Guelph finished its section yet?

50:26The only thing left to do is to complete the Guelph section of the GDG to open the gateway to this proven economic success.

50:33Please follow the strategy outlined in the future Guelph strategic plan and ensure the multi-year budget has funding to complete the Guelph section of the GDG.

50:43Thank you very much. It's a really good plan and I appreciate all the work everyone's done on it.

50:48Thanks, Lorenz. I appreciate it.

50:51I have one question from Councillor Klassen. Please stay on the line.

50:55Sure.

50:57Hi, Mr. Calca. I appreciate the delegation.

50:59I do have a question. You mentioned funding opportunities and I was just curious if you could elaborate a little bit on that.

51:09I'm assuming they would be external to city funding. Is that correct?

51:14That's correct. Yeah.

51:16Through the TransCanada Trail, I'm not there, certain are official moniker, but applications can be made, I believe, federally and provincially for the TransCanada Trail.

51:27I know there was a lot of programs available during the pandemic for exactly this kind of project as well.

51:34Okay. Thank you for the elaboration.

51:37And just to stay with me as well, Councillor Busuttil has a follow-up.

51:42Okay.

51:44Thank you very much. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, thank you.

51:47Yeah, thank you. So I'm one of the new councillors. I'm in Ward 4. And I guess when I hear your presentation, I, what resonates for me is, you know, the individuals in the families that I work with who are not able to delegate language and a number of other barriers.

52:02And when we, when I have conversations about connectivity, it's about basic need, getting to public services, doctor's appointments to a job and so on.

52:12So can you help me understand or your understanding of how this benefits Ward 4 that has absolutely no connectivity, absolutely no underpass and things like that.

52:23And just for context, I was an avid cyclist, you know, through Egypt and Turkey and Greece all over the world. So cycling and hiking is not something that I'm opposed to.

52:35But where I sit now in terms of equity and priority, and you know, this being number one for me, I'll be very honest, is absolutely not number one.

52:44Okay. I can appreciate that.

52:45It's interesting to note, I think if you go into our parks, provincial parks, our municipal parks and the G to G, you will see it on the weekends in the evenings during the day packed with new Canadians.

53:01New Canadians are using this, a lot of these parks more than a lot of the historic families in the area.

53:09It's, we have videos of just someone riding down the whole trail. The diversity is incredible.

53:19It's quite something to see.

53:22Now, specifically to Ward 4, very interestingly, this project was the number one priority, you're correct.

53:29During the deliberations of the updated trails master plan, Council directed one connection to move up ahead of this, which was the connection to Ward 4.

53:44The Guelph Hiking Trail Club actually worked to try to make that connectivity to Ward 4 because you're right.

53:53And previous Councillors before you also were very upset that that connection had not been made and it had been on the table for years and everybody wants it to be connected.

54:04So there has been some work done to make that connection to bring the trail network, the multi-use path network closer to you.

54:16It hasn't been done without the help of the volunteer organization.

54:23And I would say the first delegation, John Fisher was primary in getting that done.

54:30If it's not done to a greater liking for yourself and your constituents, I think you should bring that up with Guelph staff because we've been working on it as hard as we can with zero funding.

54:46So I agree with you.

54:47And once that connection is made even better from Ward 4 into the regular multi-use path system and we have a connection, like I said, it's only three kilometers and we're talking about less than the price of a soccer field.

55:02And like I said, if you please get out there and have a look at these things, they're used all day long, whereas a lot of our sports fields are sitting empty all day long.

55:11And for at least the winter months, they're completely unused in a lot of our bigger facilities.

55:20You will see these trail systems used by everybody all year long and the diversity I cannot emphasize is well represented.

55:30Thank you, Lawrence. And I guess I should have clarified that the part of Ward 4 is, you know, the Willow Westwood Road area where social determinants high poverty.

55:39And these are people who don't have access to bikes, no place to park bikes and so on. So at some point we can have a conversation around there. But again, the priority for me is.

55:49I'm totally on side with that. In fact, I'm working. I'm also the president of Gorba and I've been working with city staff to make sure that your neighborhood is accessible.

55:58And I've been fighting for a bike park in your neighborhood for a very long time because there are a lot of, you'll know this, a lot of young men, young women don't have the same experience.

56:09And I think the way they're doing access is a lot of folks in the other parts of the city. But if they, they will be riding a bike of some sort and that is their main transportation. They don't have parents taking them around or skateboards is another one they like to use.

56:23So access from that point of view, that infrastructure needs to be in place for those young people. Absolutely.

56:29Thank you. Okay, I don't see any more, I think. So thank you.

56:36Oh, did Leanna, I saw Leanna's.

56:40I didn't see your, your hand go right ahead.

56:45Same lines as Councillor Bousseteal's question is, as you know, and we've discussed this.

56:50Lorenz is the barrier along Silver Creek to get to the south end of the city, which isn't necessarily a G to G issue is getting over the speed limit.

57:00And so, I think that's the priority of the G to G trail for the G to G trail for its economic development.

57:08For two decades since MTO constructed the Hanlon overpass, the city has had this as a priority and something I've advocated, linking word for to word five, getting on both under the Hanlon and over the speed.

57:18And so, I think that's a great way to get a supporter of the G to G trail for its economic development and the packages that it provides. But my priority, and I know again we've talked about it is we've got to get people to work and to school.

57:34And that connection over the speed and under the Hanlon is linked to our employment lands, but it's also linked to the G to G. So, when we're looking at resources to fund trail connections and bridge connections.

57:48My question is, how can we balance the need to have both recreational and tourism priorities overlap with our with our active transportation get people from point A to point B.

58:05Yeah, that's a great question. I think, as you know, the multi use path system that's in place the ones that are getting the great use that they're getting.

58:17And the numbers are high.

58:19Not because people are just picking them as recreation they're using them to get around town.

58:26Most of us are age folks on council. We rode bicycles to school. If you go to a bike school right now you won't see the kind of bike racks and bike numbers that we saw parents don't want their kids riding on the roads with bicycles the off road.

58:45Separated bike lane multi use past system is the golden standard for sure gold standard and the networks we have are being used far beyond recreational use. It is how people are choosing to get through through the city.

59:02And there is great electronic data available to give you time of day, gender, age, direction, it's it's phenomenal.

59:13What's available and we can provide that a staff has been given some of these tools. They haven't taken them up. It's available for municipalities and nonprofits.

59:23I'm not sure why they haven't taken that up but the reports are quite quite astounding. So some of those paths might have been built with recreation in mind, but the fact is they're being used as commuter routes as well, because people are staying off of the roads where they can.

59:40Now, obviously, they're not thorough and complete throughout the city, but where they can and the more we can add the better off. I think our active transportation network becomes now, you know, versus one project versus another.

59:57This one and I believe you're going to get some more economic impact data coming up this stuff that I'm talking about this one particular connection out of 100 and almost 50 kilometers.

1:00:12We're talking we're the last three kilometers is not done every community along the way has managed to get it and do it and install it and finish it except us for three kilometers. That's all we're talking.

1:00:23And these things make money on average. The $1 in is $7 out. Some jurisdictions are going way above that and the economic impact stands and it's there. So you it's almost like I would prioritize this because this will pay for other things.

1:00:42We're installing all sorts of other parks and rec facilities that, you know, we need them because that's what we do with our taxpayers dollars for ourselves. And do they have that kind of return on investment? Of course not.

1:00:58But we know that's what we need. We have baseball diamonds sitting empty during the day.

1:01:05Soccer fields sitting empty during the day.

1:01:08Is that fine? Absolutely, because we want to use them at night. Now, if we could say that about something else that people will use another recreation. This isn't just for a few people.

1:01:19This is for hundreds of thousands of people a year and it and I would rival it against most of our other parks facilities from my like I said, you're going to get some economic data shortly and the numbers are there to support it.

1:01:34Once you see it, it's almost wise not to invest in it. It makes this city money. We've also joked that there's people who don't like bikes and it's like great invest in this because it's not for the bikes.

1:01:46It gets them off your road or it it takes money out of their pocket and it puts it back into the coffers of the whole city, the whole population.

1:01:54I think it's it's an investment that's hard to ignore and it will help facilitate and pay for other investments or other projects.

1:02:06Thank you, Councillor Caron.

1:02:11All right, seeing nothing further, I believe. Thank you, Lorenz for joining us in your presentation. Okay.

1:02:18And we're going to move on to make a make Thurburn.

1:02:26And just before make speaks, I just want to respectfully remind Council, we are here about a strategic plan.

1:02:35We need to kind of hone ourselves and focus ourselves at a higher level today.

1:02:40Okay, we are not here to pick apart a potential project specifically on something that can be discussed at budget time within the entire context of a budget.

1:02:54That's where we should be having conversations like that.

1:02:57So I just want to make sure I'm reminding everybody about that, not just because of the delegations, but because we could be hours here about our favorite little thing that we want to talk about.

1:03:06I don't want that because it's not right. We need to be here about a strategy at a strategic level. That's why it's called the strategic plan. Okay.

1:03:14So with that, Meg, can you hear me okay? It's Mary Guthrie.

1:03:18Yes, I can hear you.

1:03:19Thank you so much for joining us. Are you going to turn your video on or did you want to just do.

1:03:23Oh yeah, I'll turn it on. There we go.

1:03:25Okay, no problem.

1:03:26Yes, there you are. Thank you for joining us and I'll start the clock as soon as you start speaking. Okay, go right ahead.

1:03:30Okay. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, members of council and staff. Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.

1:03:37And I also want to thank you for your excellent work on the future wealth strategic plan and I'll quickly apologize because I am going to go on this one specific project a little bit more.

1:03:48I'm the chair of the wealth trail user groups coalition and hearing your questions. I want to try to shift your lens about the G to G connection.

1:03:56I said, well, cost of it, but it's a moneymaker for the city in your package is an economic impact analysis. I prepare for completing the G to G wealth trailway also known as the TCT connector.

1:04:07As mentioned, like my colleagues, this project has been listed as a top priority for the city since 2005, yet nothing has happened.

1:04:15We have to wonder why the thought perhaps that if you understood what an economic winner it is, you might develop the political will to make it happen.

1:04:22Quickly, what are my qualifications to do this analysis? I'm a retired professor of epidemiology with the university of Guelph, who's were concluded microeconomics with an emphasis on economic decision making.

1:04:33I've completed benefit cost analysis from multiple levels of government in several countries and on the side through my involvement with the trail organizations throughout the province. I have specifically authored some full trail system, trail system feasibility and economic impact studies.

1:04:47Future Guelph outlines the strategic directions and objectives for Guelph over the next four years and informs the multi-year budget. That's why we came today.

1:04:56The parks department has not included the G to G TCT gap in its four year budget. We argue that no other possible tourism or recreational project in Guelph can yield greater economic benefits than this one.

1:05:09It needs to be in parks trail budget, but it isn't just a parks project. It also falls under economic development and tourism and culture and recreation and demands cooperation and transparency from GJR.

1:05:21It is a future Guelph project. There are hundreds of studies documenting the positive impact, economic impact of rail trails and rails with trails. I have briefly summarized several of them in the submitted paper.

1:05:33All of these studies show net gain with an annual return on investment of over $7 per dollar spent.

1:05:40I base the estimates in my analysis on those studies that have rail and through trails, most similar to the G to G in terms of population density, trail length and level of remoteness.

1:05:51The estimates I've provided are conservative. In the initial years alone, closing the gap will lead to approximately $1.4 million per year in increased revenue to local merchants.

1:06:05Other economic benefits which have been thoroughly documented from hundreds of trail towns include new businesses, increased property values, job creation and increased tax revenue, among others.

1:06:18Don't be fooled thinking closing a gap will just benefit a few cyclists and hikers.

1:06:23Think of downtown Guelph, the closed storefronts, the struggling businesses and I suspect the declining property tax revenues.

1:06:30Cycling tourism is huge and growing exponentially. The difficult and unsafe nature of riding from downtown Guelph currently deters visiting cyclists from starting their journeys there.

1:06:42Picture instead if we had a welcoming route from our center. With our vicinity to the Golden Horseshoe, we would become a magnet for thousands and thousands of cycling tourists.

1:06:51The majority of whom are retirees with disposable incomes looking for a whole experience which involves dining, shopping and accommodation at the start and finish of the journey.

1:07:02I have not taken the time to describe the many non-economic benefits of trails. The physical, mental and emotional health benefits that Guelph residents will derive from easy and safe access to a lengthy and delightful trail.

1:07:14I hope you already understand those.

1:07:17One of the themes in future Guelph is people and economy. By closing the G2G and TCG gaps, the Guelph trail way will profoundly and positively impact three items within that component.

1:07:30Bro Guelph's economy make downtown a vibrant place for everyone, support community well-being. Please make this happen. Thank you.

1:07:41I have to stop the clock there. Thank you very much. And anybody else have a question at this time? No, okay. Thank you very much, Meg. Have a great rest of the day.

1:07:53Thank you.

1:07:54All right, everybody. That is our delegations for our strategic plan.

1:08:05And just before I look to have a mover and a seconder for this, he already got a little bit of a sneak peek into my preamble.

1:08:14We're here at a strategic level, council.

1:08:17Months of work to get to a strategic document that is going to be the guidebook on what we're looking to do.

1:08:24The specifics and the drill down can happen at the appropriate time and that is budget within the whole context of a city budget that will be in front of us. Okay.

1:08:35So let's just remember that as we start to get into this. The other thing I would just say is we've done a lot of kind of, I would just high level say word smithing, you know, over the last several months.

1:08:44And this, this to me at this time is not the time to be getting into wordsmithing like this is the this is the document now that I think we need to be trying to rally around as best we can.

1:08:55And there's, you know, there's three, I think. Yeah, there's three motions here for us. And so rightly so there might be questions about costs. Well, guess what the second motion speaks specifically to that again we're going to see it in the context of the budget.

1:09:12And then there's things about KPIs again, everyone's in favor of that that's coming in the fall. And there's the context that will help us with that before we move into the multi year budget. So at that with those kind of preamble remarks.

1:09:27I just want everyone to try to focus as we discuss this and look to consider approving and I am going to go to counselor all to said that he would be willing to move the strategic plan for us and Clawson is willing to second thank you.

1:09:42And let's stick to questions only questions only please on the start with alt. Is that right.

1:09:49Actually, I don't have any question I have a comment. I will go to you first for comments but boost it till I'm going to go to you for questions.

1:09:57This is in reference to the budget comments that were made about all the improvements and so on. I just would like some acknowledgement from staff that I have asked for a budget binder and I didn't hear that.

1:10:11And I know my learning style is different and some other counselors have asked as well if I can get a comment on that please.

1:10:17So through the chair I can confirm yes that is part of the improvements and we are working on that currently and hope to have that available prior to the education session in October.

1:10:33Thank you.

1:10:34All right.

1:10:37Perfect. We've got our fingers dirty in that binder. I know we will.

1:10:41Corrine is next and then a Rourke.

1:10:47Actually, it's not a question. It's just a congratulations. I know we've seen several draft iterations as we've enrolled this and I feel really inspired by the final product.

1:11:00I hope our community sees that reflected in the budget and big two thumbs up for staff for bringing this to us today and I hope it gets lots of media attention and I'd be circulated to the community as part of our communications outreach.

1:11:15Great. Thank you, Councillor Alder put you second.

1:11:20Councillor O'Rourke questions.

1:11:23I do have questions. Thank you, Marga, through you to staff. First, I think probably to Mr. Brian who's moved so it might be somebody else.

1:11:30Just looking at the removing barriers in the service simplified piece.

1:11:35Do we have confirmation that we're going to be AODA compliant by 2025, which is the deadline for the legislation. So, you know, I just want to make sure that that's really top of mind because it happens in this window.

1:11:48I can start. I know that staff are working diligently towards AODA compliance. I believe that that's so the AODA compliance lives outside of the city clerk's office and the service simplified work.

1:12:01It's more it's much more broad and more corporately focused. It lives in our infrastructure development enterprise family, but I can say that my understanding is that they are working towards AODA compliance.

1:12:12But I will defer to executive team members or Miss sales if there's any further comments.

1:12:17So you Mr. Mayor. Yes, we'll be in compliance.

1:12:20Perfect. Thank you. And through you, Marga, through just another question. So I love, especially the one pager sort of the really high level. I think it hits everyone shared goals.

1:12:31I had a question with respect to the foundations piece 3.4, which is the culture of continuous improvement.

1:12:38So the language talks about improving service processes and servicing customers, etc.

1:12:46My concern and so I'm asking, well, we see that on the KPIs. My concern is that does this become a list of things that we are going to do?

1:12:53Regardless of the cost, because this is our checklist for the next four years. We used to have some language around sort of affordable taxation.

1:13:03And we, we know what's coming down the pike with different changes. So is there an opportunity to strengthen some language around affordability of taxes and sort of fiscal restraint?

1:13:17My concern is we start pulling on the blanket in terms of what gets paid for.

1:13:22And is there opportunity to be able to include stronger language around a concern for what it all costs.

1:13:28So through the mayor to council or work, I'll, I'll start here and then the miss Baker wants to join in. So, although we aren't talking about KPIs this evening, I can tell you that one of the KPIs that we are going to bring forward as part of future wealth is total tax and rate burden as a percentage of household income.

1:13:47And that is currently our affordability measure for the current strap plan and for consistency purposes will continue to be our affordability measure for the next strap plan. I'm not sure if.

1:14:00Does that answer your question? Are you looking for some more clarity?

1:14:06Well, I'm just watching miss Baker nod. So I didn't know if she had something to add.

1:14:10So through the mayor, I don't have anything more to add. I would just re just confirm that that's the intention that we'd continue to have that KPI as affordability target.

1:14:21Thank you. So three America three.

1:14:24When we're going to get to the KPI stage, I know some of them are going to be sort of higher order KPIs, right? They help us make governance decisions. Will that KPI be one of the sort of high level KPIs to help guide us in our decision making?

1:14:39Yes, it's absolutely will be reflected as part of the strategic plan measurement set that you'll see every June as part of our annual reporting.

1:14:47Thank you.

1:14:48Thank you. Is there any other questions? Councillor Billings, please.

1:14:54I know I've asked this before, but it was brought up again with the multi year budget. It's great. We're going to get a binder. However, with the strategic planning initiatives, will we have something.

1:15:09That is easy to read. So, for example, with all the initiatives, there'll be like a chart with all the costing so that we don't have to go from department to department or way through the capital to try to find one thing.

1:15:23All the initiatives would be there, say, for example, in chart form. Will we will.

1:15:29Will council be presented with something that's that's easy and clear to to read and decipher.

1:15:35Through the mayor to council or Billings, one of the improvements that we're working on as part of the strategic plan leading into the multi year budget process is that we absolutely want to identify and make it more clear both for council and for the public how investments that are being made through the budget process advance the strategic plan.

1:15:54So, absolutely where there's an investment proposed as part of the strategic plan through the multi year budget, that connection will be made quite clearly as part of the presentation. So we're going to outline it from the get go going forward.

1:16:09And I think Miss Baker may have some additional comments about the budget process.

1:16:15So, yeah, we're working really hard. Sorry, through through the mayor to council buildings, we're working really hard to make sure that that presentation is very clear and serves council in terms of decision making and clear linkage to the strategic plan.

1:16:29Just in terms of the clarity on the binder.

1:16:32It won't be, I mean, it'll be a printable document you could put in your binder into a binder, but I just wanted to clarify that that we're working on that to be released in advance for more of the, the foundations of budget development and how we do it.

1:16:47And it'll be a reference document and then as we get into the budget itself, it will continue to be a web based product and that's really where the website investment was coming from so I just really want to clarify that that what will be kind of splitting it into two phases.

1:17:01And, and yeah, and the focus continues to be on the strategic plan and making that linkage really clear.

1:17:08Okay, thanks very much.

1:17:10Okay.

1:17:13Councillor Aldo start with you if you have any comments.

1:17:16Thank you, Mayor Guthrie and my, my comments are merely complimentary, but I think that they are very important. I do want to thank staff, both for this particular document and also for the exercise that we've gone through.

1:17:30I certainly won't speak for any of the new counselors, but I do believe that this has been extremely beneficial for new counselors, some of whom said to me, what the heck is this strategic plan thing anyway, when they first got elected.

1:17:42The broad strokes. I think it's great. And, and I think that's all that we need to know about the strategic plan rate now.

1:17:49I think that we need to look at what the flow of this particular document is we move from strategic plan to assessing reassessing our priorities to the multi year budget.

1:17:59And I could make all sorts of comments on connectivity net zero downtown cycling and active transportation related to this document, but the most important thing that I feel about this is that I have a hard copy.

1:18:14And I truly do request that we get hard copies out as much as possible as much as I don't like cutting down trees. I think there's a real value in this that I can keep it here and then I can flip through it.

1:18:27So thank you very much. This is great and appreciate all the effort that's gone into it.

1:18:33Thank you so much and Councillor Gibson I saw your hand go up for a comment.

1:18:41Yeah, thank you through Mr Mayor just to comment to staff I think the strategic plan balance as well the sort of the corporate goals that we felt needed to be needed to be in a strategic plan around, you know, being a being a hiring being an employer of choice and those goals I think are well established in the plan, but

1:19:00I think it also covers off some of our more ambitious desires as a council over the next four years or three, three, four years to sort of achieve some of our dreams and some of our bigger picture so unless we put it on paper as a goal it can't be realized so I think it's a good balancing act and job well done.

1:19:22Closs and then a rock.

1:19:24Thank you. I'll be very brief but I really appreciated the strap planning process. I thought it was really great to be involved in and I think I've said it to number of you I love strap planning and I think it's amazing. I really just wanted to say thank you as well to see a

1:19:39great group of people for the comment regarding that fact that it's a living document. You know, we're going to be revisiting these over the next four years and some of the objectives will change and maybe we'll need to expand some of them and grow as well.

1:19:52And I'm excited for that it's, you know, these that things are to help guide us forward not necessarily like drag us down as if we if we can't accomplish them so thank you for everyone for your for your inputs and I also love the pictures.

1:20:07Thanks. Thanks, Councillor Councillor work.

1:20:11Thank you, Margarit through you to staff.

1:20:14It is a great document I think it really clearly lays out the extraordinary transformation we're going to see in this city over the next four years so four years from now Baker Street will be complete will have a south end rec center.

1:20:25We will have seen some the beginning at least of downtown revitalization.

1:20:30Clearly improving the housing supply is number one in this plan and so is leadership and climate action so it sets us up really for a very ambitious transformation the city in the next four years a lot of these things have been teed up for the last 20 or 10 or five years but it's really exciting to see them

1:20:47to fruition.

1:20:48And I'm especially happy to see the prevalence of economic development as a key focus we know that our economy was growing slowly compared to our regional peers.

1:20:58And then in 2021 our economy grew by 5.4%, which almost offset the pandemic related contraction, but was not actually expanding so real focus there on great jobs in the city.

1:21:10We got a great start with Conestoga coming to the cooperators building but I mean the downtown in five, seven, 10 years will be totally different in this city and I think that's really exciting so I appreciate they're on this path.

1:21:23I appreciate that we have some levers to guide how quickly we get there and and how we're doing that strategically but really happy to see economic development there and also moving some big blocks.

1:21:34Thank you.

1:21:37Thank you.

1:21:42Thank you.

1:21:43Through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:21:45So I was really, really happy with the process.

1:21:48Same with Councillor Klassen.

1:21:51And I also really appreciated seeing all of the mentions of equity and diversity, especially the anti racism and the mentions of our hiring processes and within our corporation.

1:22:05I'm really looking forward to seeing the more tangible pieces that are going to come out in separate documents later on, but I just wanted to say thank you very much for including those.

1:22:15And I felt that the process was really, really great.

1:22:20Thank you. And chew.

1:22:24Yeah, just a quick word of thanks to staff for facilitating this process. I think you brought all of us together and that's not an easy task that a job well done for that.

1:22:35I just want to highlight to members of the public what the real intention of the strap line is.

1:22:41Like I'm very simple minded. So I really think of the strap plan as a dictionary. It's a living document a dictionary for us to speak the same language. And I think that's half the battle already right just being able to use the same verbiage when we talk about priorities

1:22:57things that we care about that we want to pursue for their activism towards and there's also real commitment pieces while like the South and rec center, which Councillor Ork and I are very proud of

1:23:06be set in stone in language and also for folks in the downtown Baker Street library for myself personally I really am happy that we there are not the transportation master plan and work around vision zero.

1:23:23That for me personally is a success and a takeaway that I can bring to my constituents at the door and tell them hey we're actually being intentional about how we're going to about road safety so folks that down the

1:23:39road, they have some hope that we're actually going to consider something long term and feasible for the folks over there. So again thank you so much for all the work that has been put in and like Councillor Klossin I love the

1:23:54imagery as well.

1:23:56Most of us are visual people so a job well done and that department.

1:24:01Thank you and a boost until I think I saw your hand go up there for a comment go ahead.

1:24:06Yes, thank you I didn't want to I wanted to say ditto to everything else all my colleagues have said, but I think for me, I want to really think the staff for creating a safe space in the street.

1:24:20I think I have a couple of questions about equity. Yes, then the strategic plan but also, you know, looking forward to that in the budget process as well. And thank my colleagues for all of our conversations are collaboration on this and to the staff

1:24:35for I think it's an excellent document and the consultant. I love the current trends and the SWAT analysis all of that analysis that substantiated the strategic plan so thank you ditto.

1:24:49And ditto ditto right back at you. Thank you. Okay, I don't hear anything else. So you just get me so good. Lucky you get to hear me say ditto to everything that's been been said. So there's only one thing left to say because I don't need to repeat what

1:25:04everyone else said. And that's actually I just want to speak to my colleagues on Council. One of the things I would really like to see us do is as much as we hold this document up for speaking to our citizens or our businesses.

1:25:17When we are bringing ideas forward as a team over the next few years, we need to clearly state out and show each other where does it align with the strategic plan.

1:25:28And we need to hold each other accountable to that as we move forward. So if you have an idea, if I have an idea, and I bring something forward, show us in your motion or in your preamble, where does it align with the strategic plan.

1:25:41It will make it as much more accountable to as because we're going to be talking to our constituents and our citizens about what is in or what is not in based on what we're approving here today.

1:25:51The same thing goes for for me and for you as well. So as we're trying to trying to come up with new ideas that will naturally happen over the next few years, show in the document show where it actually aligns.

1:26:04And that will make the conversation, I think a lot easier for all of us to get around new ideas that will all bring together as a as a as a group, because it's it's actually shown in the in the document that we're trying to align to.

1:26:16Okay, so that's the only thing I would say on that. And with that, I will call the vote. Is anybody against the new strategic plan for this Council 2024 to 2027 hearing and seeing none unanimous is I am thrilled with that.

1:26:33That is a message to our community that we are very aligned. I'm really, really pleased. I'm sure staff are too. So thank you very, very much.

1:26:42And to all the staff that aren't in this room that might listen to this later on or hear about it, if you could spread the word, we as a Council we see you.

1:26:50We see you in the strategic plan. You are the ones you are the feet on the ground, the hands at work that are going to be implementing this.

1:26:59You are important to how this gets implemented in our city in everything that you do. So I want you to be, I want you to know you're seeing in this, your fingerprints are all over this to and they will be over the next two years as we collectively try to reach our goals.

1:27:15So thank you very much to staff really, really appreciate it.

1:27:19Okay, let me move on. I think I'm out of here.

1:27:24I am.

1:27:26Am I out of here?

1:27:28I'm out of here.

1:27:30Let's take a five minute break.

1:27:32It is three, let's let's call it 330. And so let's come back at 335.

1:27:38Let's make sure we start on time and chair or Rourke from IDE will be sitting here as we continue with our agenda. Thank you very much.

1:35:32Hey, ladies and gentlemen.

1:35:35Welcome to the IDE portion of our meeting. Are we back.

1:35:44Hey.

1:35:46So we have one item on the IDE infrastructure development and enterprise services portion of the agenda and that is consideration of making the seasonal patio program permanent.

1:35:57And we start with a presentation from Chris to walkie who is our acting.

1:36:02Oh, she's acting deputy chief administrative officer infrastructure development and enterprise services.

1:36:07And usually our GM of planning and building.

1:36:10Okay, and she'll be joined by Alex Jarowski, our manager of tourism and destination development. Go ahead and Krista.

1:36:18Thank you chair. Yes, I am definitely trying to fill some big shoes today.

1:36:23But I'm pleased to be here today to introduce the next item on the agenda and that's the seasonal patio program.

1:36:29When COVID hit, we appreciated council's approval of the temporary outdoor patio program to support local businesses that had to limit the number of people they could welcome inside their establishments.

1:36:41Businesses and people who live in and visit wealth would come to appreciate the program and seek out our patios even after those restrictions were lifted.

1:36:51In fact, 97% of those who participated in our most recent communities engagement survey expect the program to continue.

1:37:00Now, thanks to council's approval of the economic development and tourism destination strategy.

1:37:06We have your ongoing support to make wealth a must see visitor destination of choice and approving a permanent seasonal patio program and using the municipal accommodation tax to subsidize it will help us get to that goal.

1:37:20The city of wealth is among the 1st municipalities to come to council with a proposed permanent program.

1:37:27And we believe our program satisfies the expectations of our community of our businesses of the people who live, work, visit and play in our downtown.

1:37:38There are some key factors to consider of course with this program.

1:37:42Parking is an important issue for many people, especially in the downtown, yet our recommendations today aim to balance these expectations while still providing a program that animates our downtown.

1:37:54Downtown wealth is a charming diverse, exciting, historic, cultural, accessible and welcoming space.

1:38:04A permanent seasonal patio program will absolutely support and enhance our downtown.

1:38:11So with that, I'm going to turn it over to Alex Dorsky, the manager of tourism destination development.

1:38:18Thank you, Krista. All right, let's see.

1:38:25Perfect.

1:38:27So let's first take a look at the pilot seasonal patio program.

1:38:32So the seasonal patio pilot program was approved by council in 2021 after the first after first implementing the emergency temporary patio program in 2020.

1:38:42The economic development team brought forward options for the pilot program approved for three years between 2021 and 2023 as a pandemic recovery measure.

1:38:53Paddy's have been active annually between October or April 1st to October 31st, which is consistent with other municipalities that offered seasonal patios as a coven 19 relief measure for patios on public land in the downtown.

1:39:06The city lands encroachment by law was updated to permit permit this fact flexible use of public space, while the Ontario government allowed for a temporary use by law to be implemented for private property patio extensions.

1:39:20As temporary use by law is set to expire at the end of 2023.

1:39:24In 2020 full street closures were implemented during the temporary patio program, and the budget impacts for road closures were brought to council in 2021 that included options for special event only seasonal closures and weekend closures.

1:39:38These costs were presented to council with a $317,000 impact for seasonal road closures and 182,000 for weekend road closures.

1:39:47In 2021 council motioned and passed the weekend road closure option, but it was determined that for 2022 and 2023 the transit impacts and associated costs with seasonal or weekend closures would not be maintained and that the special event option would be implemented.

1:40:04The original startup costs for the program were funded through the tourism operational budget and supported by the safe restart fund, as well as the tourism recovery fund.

1:40:18Additional operational dollars required to implement and maintain the program each year were incorporated into the multi or budget process for 2022 and 2023.

1:40:27For all three years of the pilot program, the approved application and agreement fees were waived. However, in 2023, the council approved on street parking fee was implemented at $3 per square meter for the season.

1:40:42Where improvements could be made during the pilot program staff collaborated to address the main concerns around parking spaces that were taken offline due to patio activation in the downtown.

1:40:52The stop circling in park campaign was launched in 2022 and carries into 2023, which saw the conversion of the Mack Dennell Street lot from permitted parking to the on street model offering two hours for free.

1:41:05For the recommendations of the accessibility advisory committee, inspection staff received accessibility training and accessibility staff will be attending inspections and have attended inspections to ensure built requirements for patios are maintained through activation, which brings us to engagement.

1:41:22We are pleased to see that our external engagement survey, which included feedback from patio users received 900 and 907 responses through the have your say portal.

1:41:32We asked for feedback from patio operators, non patio operating businesses and patio patrons to gain a holistic view of the program and the ways that we can improve a permanent offering.

1:41:43We also consulted with the downtown golf business Association, the tourism advisory committee and the accessibility advisory committee for feedback on how we can better support businesses and patio users for more inclusive, activated and beautiful spaces.

1:41:57In addition to our external engagement opportunities. We also hosted a series of internal engagement options for the many city staff who support the seasonal patio program to provide feedback and recommendations for improvements.

1:42:09We also reached out to municipalities across Ontario to gain insight into their operations, as well as ways that they were developing a permanent program.

1:42:17So here are some of our takeaways from the community engagement survey we gained insight into the economic impacts from businesses that operated a seasonal patio and from those who did not.

1:42:3091% of businesses who operated a seasonal patio indicated positive revenue and employment opportunities and commented on the expanded customer base and enhanced visibility for their businesses during the program.

1:42:42For businesses without a patio 71% reported the program had a positive or no impact on their businesses employment opportunities.

1:42:51And when asked if survey respondents would like to see the program continue past 2023 91% of patio operators, 65% of non patio operators and 97% of patio patrons and users said yes or yes with modifications.

1:43:13We also saw consistent themes and comments around where folks identify the most value in the program and hope to see a permanent program in the future.

1:43:22For many the activation of public space gave our historic downtown a European atmosphere and ambience which contributed to a strong sense of community.

1:43:31Respondents also remarked on the added busyness to the downtown and the value this brought to businesses and the real and perceived vibrancy to residents and visitors.

1:43:40But of course improvements can always be made and feedback from our engagement activities mostly revolved around the themes that you see here.

1:43:55There is an expectation that the program not be provided to businesses for free with user fees that reflect program sustainability and cost recovery.

1:44:03This requires finding a balance with affordability for businesses to ensure that activation of public space still occurs and contributes to that community feel and vibrancy.

1:44:13The length of the program was seen as a strength but reduced usage during April and October indicated that adjusting the dates for a shorter season would see more people use the patios when they're installed and keep parking spots online during these reduced usage times, which brings us to parking.

1:44:30Improving parking options downtown during the seasonal patio program is probably the most frequent theme from businesses and patio users alike and we've worked with city staff throughout the piloted program to improve access and education on how and where to park.

1:44:44We also heard about beautification and activation businesses and community members suggest incentivizing and partnerships between the city and the businesses themselves to improve the quality of patios and encourage consistent usage and activity.

1:44:56And we also received recommendations around education that provides regular training and accessibility as resources for participating businesses to consider and implement.

1:45:06This brings us to the recommendations for the permanent program and the spirit in which they were developed.

1:45:18We are shifting the focus of the seasonal patio program from our pandemic recovery measure to a valuable destination development asset and economic opportunity that is led by the business community.

1:45:30We support their investments with investment of our own to ensure patron safety while remaining flexible in how the program can evolve as we look to the downtown infrastructure and renewal program and what it will mean for public space activation both during the work during the work and after.

1:45:45The recommendations brought forward are also in consideration of what it means to apply fair value to the use of public space as a commercial space.

1:45:53And the fees that we propose are meant to balance the needs and expectations of businesses downtown while we try and build in cost recovery for the city services required to facilitate the program.

1:46:04And we are also looking to improve the program for users through improve waste management plans accessibility education and resources for businesses as well as parking information and guidelines that can be shared with patrons.

1:46:17In this context we bring forward the following recommendations for the permanent seasonal patio program.

1:46:22The updated program dates reflect the usage rates of installed patios and better balance winter control and repair work with patio rollout and activation so that city staff can deliver better customer service to our community.

1:46:33The adjusted fees reflect the user fees by law and the annual user fee schedule while also applying a fair valuable fair value to the flexible and commercialize use of public space.

1:46:45Oops, maybe not.

1:46:52We recommend. Yeah, we recommend the removal of private property patios from the seasonal patio program as the building permitting process and the updated zoning by law can better support these application types.

1:47:03We are updating the design specifications of the patios and providing businesses with pre approved patio drawings that are in line with the Ontario building code and remove COVID-19 distancing requirements.

1:47:14And we have added mandatory waste management plans and accessibility inspections with expanded resources for businesses.

1:47:20Diving deeper into the program dates, we will open patio applications and renewals each year on February 1st while applications and renewals for existing businesses will close April 1st.

1:47:33This provides enough time for applications to be circulated and coordination among city staff for the programs rollout each season.

1:47:39The rollout would occur over the first weekend in May for barrier drop offs while installation and barrier filling will occur throughout the week.

1:47:46Then the closeout of the program would be the final weekend in September.

1:47:50One area to note is that is with the as with the 2021 to 2023 seasonal patio program.

1:47:56New businesses who open during the patio season will be able to put in an application up until August 15th.

1:48:03Application approvals are contingent on barrier availability availability each year and there is budget within the program for investment in new barriers in the case of damage or an influx of applications.

1:48:13The updated fees for the permanent program are proposed with a focus on cost recovery and attributing fair value to the use of public space as commercialized space.

1:48:30These fees will be reflected in the user fees bylaw and updated annually as approved in the multi-year budget process later this year.

1:48:37The seasonal patio application fee and an encroachment agreement fee have been adjusted from the 2021 to 2023 program to reflect legal and reality services fees that are currently present in the user fee bylaw.

1:48:50These will only be applied once at the start of the tenure encroachment agreement within applying business.

1:48:55The annual seasonal patio inspection fee will be incorporated into business licenses where able and will cover the costs associated with ensuring that patios reflect the building code and the submitted drawings.

1:49:06And the on street fee has been updated in consultation with parking services for from $3 per square meter to $10 per square meter per month charged annually to the patio operator.

1:49:17This number balances the average commercial rental price in Guelph with the temporary nature of a seasonal patio as added commercial space for participating businesses.

1:49:26To place these fees in context, let's consider a patio that uses 60 square meters of on street space, which is about the average of those currently installed as a part of the 2021 2023 program.

1:49:45As the application and agreement fees are charged only once every 10 years in alignment with the standard tenure encroachment agreement for public property, this patio operator would pay $3660 in year one and $3260 each following year in inspection and on street parking fees.

1:50:03Once approved during the application and renewal window, they will be invoiced and their fees processed, then their barriers will be allocated and dropped off on the first weekend in May for installation.

1:50:13Considering these fees and the cost of operating the program over the past three years, we have anticipated the financial impacts of the seasonal patio program to be brought forward during the multi-year budget process.

1:50:35Using the rate of participation from 2023, we anticipate that the $70,000 in user fees will be collected to offset the total program costs of $175,000.

1:50:45With a focus on bringing forward a program with no impact to the tax levy, we are recommending that $105,000 from the annual revenues of the municipal accommodation tax be used to fund the remaining budget needed for the seasonal patio program as a destination development and place making initiative.

1:51:02This concludes the presentation component of our report. Stacy Dunn again, and I would be happy to answer any questions you have around the recommendations we have brought forward for a permanent seasonal patio program.

1:51:14Thank you very much, Mr. Roski.

1:51:19If I can have somebody just put the motion on the floor and then we'll go to delegations. Okay.

1:51:24Okay.

1:51:25Mr.

1:51:26Councillor Klassen, I seconder.

1:51:29Mayor Guthrie. Okay, so the motions on the floor. I understand that we have Dario Dorenzo on the phone.

1:51:36Hi, Dario, can you hear us?

1:51:44Can you do star six in case you're muted? Okay. Actually, we're having some trouble lining up the folks on the phone. So if we can go to Richard Overland who's here in person.

1:52:05No need to star six, but if you want to come on down, we'd appreciate that.

1:52:20So welcome.

1:52:22And you have five minutes for your delegation.

1:52:24Thank you. Before I started with the patios, I was just like to say something to council and the staff sitting here this afternoon watching you guys discuss that strategic plan.

1:52:34We'd be happy to be from golf. Thank you guys. Great job staff council. I'm impressed.

1:52:41Now, what the party is.

1:52:44Thank you for your time today.

1:52:48I, most of you may know my own and the kitchen and bar. I'm one of the owners of any kitchen bar. Sorry.

1:52:54I've been there downtown golf here operating for 18 years.

1:52:58The patios came at a time when we were desperate.

1:53:02It has changed everything.

1:53:0818 years have been downtown.

1:53:11We didn't open during the day in the summertime, because you could let a cannon off down here all summer.

1:53:18Right. It was not worth it. We tried several times in our the first 15 years to open through the day and it just wasn't worth it.

1:53:26We actually didn't open until six o'clock.

1:53:29Saturday Sunday, because there was nobody here.

1:53:33pandemic comes. We have this emergency patio program.

1:53:38We are now open.

1:53:40Noon until 2am, seven days a week all year.

1:53:46The patios have increased the traffic flow so dramatically that it's actually worth it for me in December months after the patios close.

1:53:54There's still enough people coming downtown to make it worthwhile to be open during the day.

1:54:00At the spring, we had 28 staff members.

1:54:03Today I have 52.

1:54:0652 28 to 52.

1:54:10It is so beneficial, not just to me.

1:54:15It's beneficial to my neighbors.

1:54:18I love interacting with the guest.

1:54:21That's what I do best.

1:54:23I talked to everybody.

1:54:25I had no idea.

1:54:27Wolf was a mecca.

1:54:29A bridal supplies.

1:54:31Did you know this?

1:54:32They come from Western New York, Northern New York State. They come from Toronto. They come from London. They come from all over to go up because we have five.

1:54:41They have bridal salons here.

1:54:43They carry the top five designers.

1:54:46Not in that business.

1:54:48How do I know that?

1:54:50Because I engage with the guest that tell me.

1:54:53They came from these places.

1:54:55It has been harmony.

1:54:58I don't want to speak for my neighbors specifically because I'm not here for them.

1:55:02But they tell me.

1:55:04How good it is. How much more traffic it is.

1:55:07I'm a firm believer in downtown Guelph. I own my building. I own my restaurant.

1:55:12I spent the last 18 years of my life down here.

1:55:15I'm a firm believer that in order for me to do well, everybody around me has to do well.

1:55:22I recommend Eric the baker.

1:55:24I recommend Fleet Street Bakery, which is a newer place on Cork Street. If any of you haven't gone, please go.

1:55:30I'm going to talk to two young kids that are knocking it out of the park, working their butt off and doing some really great stuff.

1:55:37Unique, interesting stuff.

1:55:39For me, I need the guest to have two reasons to come downtown. Not just me.

1:55:44So when they come to my place and they have a nice time and I send them to Eric the baker or to If Footwear.

1:55:51And if you know it's a New York City style shoe store in downtown Guelph, we are blessed to have Joel and his store here.

1:56:00What happens is then when people are waiting to make debate or to do, they say, well, let's go to Guelph.

1:56:06And maybe the husband's thinking about a burger at my place and I'm thinking about shoes or vice versa.

1:56:12Right. And it gives people two reasons to come downtown or three reasons Eric the baker Fleet Street Bakery If Footwear.

1:56:19I see it every single day, every single day. I'm on the patio. I'm talking to people. I see people from Toronto, from Mississauga.

1:56:28I've seen people move from Toronto to Guelph in the first year. They came and looked at houses the second time they were here.

1:56:34I saw a couple of seniors couples that were friends from London and from Toronto and Guelph was the halfway point.

1:56:42Right. They made Guelph halfway point because we had a patio program.

1:56:46Do you know where those two couples live now? And the new tower downtown. Where are they regular customers at my place every single week.

1:56:54Every other week. I see them all the time.

1:56:56Right. And I can go on and on. It's just the number of people I've seen and the number of people I see every week.

1:57:04My business is over 20% new people. I had a couple or husband, mother and daughter.

1:57:10Last week, the mother has lived in the South End for 20 almost 20 years.

1:57:15Daughter was out of town. They were looking for a mother of the bride's dress.

1:57:19The daughter came to Guelph, went to one of the bridal salons and took the mother for the first time in almost 20 years to downtown Guelph.

1:57:27She had never been here. She lived in the South End 20 years.

1:57:30And the mother thought this is so beautiful. How did I not know it existed?

1:57:34And the daughter and annoyingly we said, now mother, I've been telling you for a long time.

1:57:38I hear this. Mr. Overland.

1:57:41Am I not on time? That's five minutes. Yes.

1:57:44One 30 seconds.

1:57:46I did a CBC radio show.

1:57:51Yesterday morning, I did one on the morning show today.

1:57:54I got a phone call just before I came here today from a gentleman named Blaze.

1:58:00From Buffalo, New York. He heard the radio show on CBC.

1:58:04They were here two weeks ago with his mother. They came to the butterfly museum.

1:58:08The butterfly museum said, you have to go downtown Guelph for lunch.

1:58:13But then they came, they saw the church, they went to the church.

1:58:16The priest took them out on the steps of the church and said, go downtown. It's wonderful.

1:58:20They tried to get into my place and couldn't.

1:58:23I will stop now though.

1:58:25No, I will stop now.

1:58:27Mr. Overland.

1:58:29Fun fact, I had my first date with my husband when it was black mustard.

1:58:32So we love your place.

1:58:34I appreciate learning about the bakery. Two words that, that make my heart sing our new bakery.

1:58:41Stay put. Do you have any questions? Councillor Goller.

1:58:44Thank you. And through you, chair or work.

1:58:47Mr. Overland, thank you for the, the support to, to, to the party program.

1:58:52Just wanted to clarify, were you here?

1:58:54We purely to say we should approve it or did you have any other requests or comments?

1:59:01Of course I want you to approve it. I think it's the best thing for downtown Guelph.

1:59:05One of my comments is about the new fees.

1:59:10We went from $3 a square meter annually to $10 a square meter.

1:59:16Monthly.

1:59:18I absolutely understand the city has to worry about cost and we have to be responsible.

1:59:23My concern is if we raise the, and I understand the inspection fees, I get it. Right.

1:59:28But if we raise the fees too high, too fast, we run the risk of losing some of the smaller operators.

1:59:36And I think the smaller operators like taste with Andy on Cork street, add a huge amount of the flare and the impact to our thing.

1:59:43Would the people at the butterfly conservatory, which is could have sent them to Cambridge or Kitchener would they have sent them to Guelph if we had half of our operators.

1:59:52And I don't want us to lose that impact.

1:59:54So please take under and I thank staff for doing their work because I think they've got a wonderful job.

2:00:01Please take into consideration if we lose some of the smaller operators, we could lose some of the impact and the butterfly conservatory and the ones like them will most say come to Guelph will say go to Kitchener.

2:00:13Okay, I appreciate that. Thank you.

2:00:17Okay, thank you. I'm just checking the screen there for questions. Thank you, Mr. Overland. Have a great day. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

2:00:24Okay, next up. We have Dario Dorenzo who is joining us over the phone. Mr. Dorenzo, can you hear me?

2:00:31Hey, we can't hear you. Oh, we can. Thank you. All right. Yeah. Welcome. You have five minutes. I'll start your time now.

2:00:44Yeah. So sorry about that in the beginning. I tried to unmute myself. I didn't know how to hit star six here and I didn't. I got caught up here. So sorry, my apologies.

2:00:54I just like to first off say thank you to city council city staff for having the patio program. It's been obviously very impactful for the downtown core.

2:01:08I'm going to just introduce myself as one of the owners of Frankenstein's and we do own the building as well and we are next door to Envy next to Rich and I don't want to take up a lot of the time.

2:01:23I just want to reiterate the points that Rich has made. It's been super impactful. It's changed the downtown scene. It's brought more people more foot traffic downtown, which has been impactful.

2:01:37Not just for the bars and restaurants, but all the merchants. And so it's brought a lot of life that we didn't have.

2:01:46Like I said, myself and my business partner have been downtown for a better part of over 20 years and we've seen a huge change.

2:01:55People that never frequented downtown are coming downtown and obviously we're getting, as Rich mentioned, people from out of town, which has been absolutely amazing for everyone.

2:02:08So thank you for helping us during a time of need. Obviously COVID was tough on everybody and we appreciate helping us out through the two or three years that was obviously very tough for all of us.

2:02:26The only concern I have is obviously, as Rich mentioned, is the cost. It is about a 1600% increase of what we've encouraged or how we've been occurring now.

2:02:42And that will obviously affect some of us. Myself, I don't see us moving forward if that's going to be the cost. Okay. If the cost was more reasonable, we would definitely consider keeping the patio going.

2:03:02So, you know, it's just a heavy cost to incur. And again, Rich mentioned, yes, there has to be some sort of cost moving forward for that, but the increase is really too great at once. That's all I have to say.

2:03:22I appreciate your delegation clocking in at two minutes and 39 seconds. So, Tite, I just want to see if there's any questions from council here for you.

2:03:31And seeing none. Thanks very much for your delegation. I hope you have a fantastic summer.

2:03:37Thanks for joining us.

2:03:38Thank you so much. And thank you for the opportunity. Appreciate it.

2:03:41Wonderful. Absolutely. Okay. Do we have Mr. Martindale?

2:03:46No, Chair O'Rourke. We attempted to reach Matt Martindale and Dino Serenity. I believe I'm pronouncing that correctly, but we were unable to reach them.

2:03:56So then council, it's back to us with questions for staff at this point and comments at the end. And I'll go to Mayor Guthrie first.

2:04:04Thank you so much and through you, Chair.

2:04:10Actually, no, I'm good. No questions. Thank you.

2:04:17Okay, Councillor Goller.

2:04:20Thank you through Chair O'Rourke to staff.

2:04:24The letters and the comments that I've received are overwhelmingly in support and they really appreciate that we are making this permanent.

2:04:32The question as was raised about the fees. Could you help me understand when we were setting the fee, did we do an assessment of how many of the businesses because would actually be able to have a patio next season, given the proposed fee?

2:04:50Is there a chance that we set this fee in the next year only 20% of the businesses apply for patios? So I just wanted to hear about that.

2:05:00Through you, Chair O'Rourke, the fee itself was not provided to businesses in consultation to determine the affordability at the time.

2:05:12The fee was developed with feedback from businesses through our community engagement survey, where there was the expectation from businesses who did not have a patio that folks who did operate a patio would be charged fair value for using public space as commercial space.

2:05:32So the fees were developed in consideration of the commercial, the average commercial value of a square meter in Guelph. And we then tried to strike a balance recognizing that they are not permanent structures.

2:05:47So the temporary nature of that, we did reduce the square meterage so it was not reflected or reflective of the actual commercial average, which was depending on the source between $17 and $20 per square meter on average.

2:06:05Okay, thank you. Thank you very much. I appreciate that.

2:06:10Thank you, Chair.

2:06:12Thank you, Councillor Goller. Councillor Caron and Councillor Buse-Till.

2:06:18Thank you. My question has to do and I know that Alex, you were able to get some stats for me, but I do want to put it on the public record because we did receive a letter from Theresa McKean, I think was the name.

2:06:33I'm expressing some concern about the lack of public space because what we are doing with this program is we are taking what is now public space and we are turning it into, you know, in effect rented private space.

2:06:47So can you talk about what other public amenities are available? How many benches where the public can grab some takeout, grab a coffee, they don't have to use a private patio.

2:07:04I think it's really important if we're truly trying to create what in the presentation you called a European feel toward downtown.

2:07:14In European cities, you can sit anywhere. You know, you can, there's small parquettes, there's lots of piazza space, there's lots of places where the public can use the public space without having to purchase a product from a specific

2:07:31bar or patio. Can you talk about the remaining public space?

2:07:39So the, sorry, through you, chair. The public space. So as some stats that came back, there are just under 50 public benches in the downtown area most populated by patios, as well as some table and chair space in Market Square and in St.

2:07:59George's Square. And then with downtown renewal efforts and the municipal accommodation tax, we are looking at ways that we can use municipal accommodation tax to invest more in public infrastructure as we contemplate these large infrastructure projects.

2:08:17Okay, thank you. And on the heels of that, I know we didn't do any research. There weren't any other municipalities that have any data we could use about whether seasonal private patios were open to the public and whether there was any kind of an

2:08:36incentive tools such as a discount on the square footage fee or a discount on the application fee for patio operators who made their space available to the public.

2:08:52In the absence of that, and I know it's not in the recommended plan, my question is, are we going to continue to monitor this program? Are we going to continue to refine it over time? Or once we've passed this recommendation, we're no longer collecting data.

2:09:09We're no longer collecting feedback. We're not doing satisfaction surveys on customers and downtown residents.

2:09:17I just want to know, is this the end? Is today's decision the end? Because I think if we, as we remove public space, especially during construction of Windham Street, I want to know whether we're going to still have an opportunity to collect feedback about the impact on the loss of public space.

2:09:44So we, oh, sorry, through you, we are looking at ways to expand our data collection to support the storytelling around this program and the impacts as it relates to the installation of the patios in the parking spaces.

2:10:04When it comes to the activation of public space in these renewal efforts, then I imagine that as we come to council with reports on those updates and how the program changes as a result of these investments in these programs, we will see updates on how the seasonal patio program is responding to these changes and those updates as a result.

2:10:29Okay, that's great because there are non-patio operators, retailers, other types of businesses, offices. I don't feel as though, I feel the need to continue to collect data on their behalf about the impact because if we have more seasonal patios, if this expands and we have, you know, 75% of a street where the impact is being felt, I'm glad to hear that we're still going to collect that data,

2:10:58still have that feedback, which leads to my final question. We're calling it permanent, but we all know nothing is ever permanent in the city of Guelph because we're going to be ripping up Windham Street.

2:11:09So, you know, I prefer not to use that language because it sets up an expectation that there will be patios everywhere all the time every year.

2:11:20There will be times when we are doing work where we're a business owner who may traditionally have had a patio cannot have a patio. Is that correct?

2:11:33Yes, that is correct.

2:11:35Okay, thanks.

2:11:37Okay, I'm going to go to Councillor Bucethel.

2:11:40Thank you very much and through you, Madam Chair. My first question, I believe Councillor Goller asked and my second question is very similar to Councillor Cairn.

2:11:50So, I'm an immigrant. I come from Italy and Malta. And so when we talk around this horseshoe about, you know, the European kind of way of doing things, my family had hotel and restaurants and bakeries and things like that.

2:12:05And there was a ground tax that we paid. We paid a ground tax when we went on to the public property. So, I have no problem with that because what I've also seen with relation to Councillor Cairn is that encroachment on to public space where if you go to an Italian beach, you're paying for a chair on the beach.

2:12:27Unless you want to sit on the rocks. But if you want to be on the beach, you pay for that kind of thing. So, I'm very sensitive to that, the public realm.

2:12:37And I, so I'd like to hear the staff's thinking on that balance of public and private interest in this consideration. And also a little bit more about this map tax because I am not feeling that there is a need to use something like that.

2:12:55So, I would prefer to use the map tax on things like public infrastructure, public and so on. So if the staff can just give me a little bit more information, that would be great. Thank you.

2:13:05Through you chair.

2:13:09So, the, I will start with the municipal accommodation tax question, perhaps.

2:13:16So, the, the program as proposed is being proposed as a place making and destination development activity, which is in line with the economic development and tourism strategic plan.

2:13:28That was approved last year, where those kinds of investments in place making way finding infrastructure enhancements were included as outcomes of implementing the municipal accommodation tax.

2:13:43And that's why that we have brought this program forward to reduce impact of the tax levy, but as well as a valuable destination development activity as well.

2:13:54When it comes to the, the balance of commercial space as public space and that and the pursuit of us trying to balance that we really are trying to, or we really were trying to develop a program with fees.

2:14:12That businesses could afford to pay so that we are offering a program that folks can choose to opt into so that we do see the downtown animated consistently while still acknowledging that, you know, public space does have value and the occupation of it for commercial purposes does need to be considered.

2:14:33Thank you, Madam Chair, I would also just like to jump in and add just maybe some clarity. When we're speaking about public space in the context of the patio program where we're speaking about on street, and most predominantly we're speaking about parking spaces.

2:14:52So the, the costs per square meter would not be applied to the patio space that space that is sitting on a sidewalk, it would only be applied to the on street space that they're utilizing Council.

2:15:09You still follow up through the chair just a supplemental. So what I'm hearing is that there is no value to the sidewalk space no quantitative value. Is that what I heard?

2:15:20We are not applying a commercial value to the sidewalk space in this instance we're applying it to the on the use of the on street space, which in some cases is a parking stall and other spaces because this is a citywide program is not a parking space but it's the on street space.

2:15:38So the other fees associated are attributed to their inspection and the encroachment fees, and those are attributed to the sidewalk spaces.

2:15:47Thank you and through you, Madam Chair, just my final question is, and I think Councillor Ciarán was asking this, will there be an evaluation of this because for me this is and again I come from, you know, the island of Malta where you go to the island and you cannot find a space to sit that is free.

2:16:05And so for me it's that that tension between public and private commercial. Will there be an evaluation of this?

2:16:13We will continue to evaluate how we can make investments as economic development in tourism to ensure that public space that is open to folks as we go through downtown renewal is still made available and I apologize, Chair O'Rourke, through you.

2:16:35Sorry, you said through me and I was waiting for something else. Okay. Thank you. I'm going to go to Councillor Klassen and then back to Marigot 3.

2:16:51Thank you, Madam Chair. Let me know if this question is on is in order. I do have a question about the barriers. Is this the appropriate moment?

2:17:03So why don't you ask the question and we'll see we know it's part of the program because they have to be paid for it and delivered etc. So go ahead.

2:17:10Sure. Thank you. So through you, Madam Chair to staff. I had a question about some of the barriers and and how that works in function to the build of the patios. Do they have to be integrated into the design or or other design options part of the of what's possible

2:17:31through you chair.

2:17:34First time.

2:17:37So the the barriers are there for traffic mitigation and safety. So we do require as a part of risk mitigation and I believe through traffic laws that where folks are seated has to be at least one meter from the roadway.

2:17:57These barriers also help in protecting folks from that. As we go through downtown renewal projects, we are working city staff is collaborating phenomenally well to try and explore options where the barriers may not be necessary.

2:18:13But at this time I can't comment on not using the barriers because the way our roads are currently implemented.

2:18:21We do want that safety protection.

2:18:25Great. Thank you. And one more if you'll permit me.

2:18:30I have a question with regard to the public space.

2:18:34When I was at FCM, I, when Mayor Catherine four years, she's the mayor of Longyue, she presented some of the things that they did in their downtown spaces, one of which was a public co-working space with, you know, you could go and you could work in that in that area is to have

2:18:50a public space. And we explored public options like this, you know, temporary structures that can be built that aren't for private use but could be invested in through things, you know, like our our mat tax and could provide public benefit and would be free to use for all residents.

2:19:12I do think that with a program that goes forward on a more permanent basis or a future program that we know about.

2:19:21It will allow staff to make investments where we could utilize the public space like the on street space to make investments of our own to complement what is also happening with business investment.

2:19:36Great. Thank you.

2:19:38Okay, I'll go to Mayor Guthrie. I didn't mean to say at the beginning of questions that everyone had to say private property patio permitting process and all of their questions. So, Mayor Guthrie, the challenges to you.

2:19:51Well, P squared.

2:19:55I thank you, chair.

2:19:59My only question is just to be to bring clarity. There's nothing about the program now that's speaking to close streets.

2:20:06Just for clarity that would be a requirement of like a third party or something to get a special events permit to do something like that. I just want to make sure that I'm understanding that right through you chair. Yes, the special events street closure process is the process we have been using.

2:20:23And patios are considered in the activation of street closures.

2:20:28Okay, great. Thank you.

2:20:30And then again through you chair.

2:20:32I was just wondering about this is kind of a fee question, but also a process question on how things will be implemented.

2:20:41I'm sure you and many others probably have been following along on the not so good implementation of Toronto patios over the last month.

2:20:52It's been a huge problem for them. Huge uproar for businesses that had basically zero problems throughout the pandemic and are now experiencing, you know, government issues in regards to trying to move forward on them now.

2:21:07So, I just wanted to say, I'll stick to that line of questioning on the process side.

2:21:14I can understand for a brand new patio where there may be some logistics involved in figuring everything out. But for those patios that are going to be consistently the exact same thing year over year.

2:21:31How, how are you going to be able to provide people with that that sort of accountability for a quick process on making sure those things are boom they're ready to go every year it's like it's the same thing every single year.

2:21:45Nothing's changed they got to sign off on it nothing's changed. They just want to build their patio. How are you guys addressing that.

2:21:53Thank you chair. Great question. So the dates that were presented in the presentation. So we have a two month window where applications and renewals are put forward.

2:22:07Just for clarity the tenure encroachment agreement that businesses would would sign into with the city for the encroachment on public lands. It's 10 years. So that that drawing is good for 10 years we.

2:22:21Oh, sorry.

2:22:22Okay, so once that is settled

2:22:28and we have the renewals,

2:22:30so the business lets us know that they are interested

2:22:33in setting up again for the year,

2:22:35we will work with city staff.

2:22:37And the reason we have proposed the dates that we have,

2:22:39which is that weekend installed that first weekend in May,

2:22:42is so that rollout is consistent.

2:22:44We can do it all together.

2:22:45Everyone gets their barriers as consistently as we can.

2:22:49And then they're able to set up, build that week,

2:22:52barriers get filled and the process moves forward.

2:22:57Yeah.

2:22:59Okay, great.

2:23:00So that would be great.

2:23:02I think, yeah, okay, that would be great.

2:23:05And I trust that staff will do it that way.

2:23:07So thank you.

2:23:09And then my final question, Chair,

2:23:11the other second part of that was about fees.

2:23:14I'm just trying to understand,

2:23:16where is this $260 inspection fee coming from?

2:23:25And I mean that very honestly,

2:23:27like why isn't it 270 or why isn't it 250?

2:23:31Like I'm just trying to understand,

2:23:32like how did this $260 amount come to be?

2:23:38Through you, Chair.

2:23:39So that fee covers the inspection staff

2:23:43and the for fire and our bylaw and security staff,

2:23:47both of which are rates that are included

2:23:49in the user fee bylaw combined,

2:23:51where it is my understanding that we could not otherwise

2:23:56incorporate it into the business license for that business.

2:24:00Okay, that makes sense.

2:24:02You explained that very well.

2:24:04All right, thank you so much, Chair.

2:24:07I see Councillor Billings has questions.

2:24:12In the report, this model includes to some degree,

2:24:15the cost recovery, which is supplemented

2:24:18by the tourist tax.

2:24:20So my question is, if, and I do mean if there are amendments

2:24:24to reduce the fees and Council decides not to take an increase

2:24:29from supplementing with the tourist tax

2:24:31and it hits say the operating budget,

2:24:36does that then become bonusing?

2:24:40Or then we not bonusing private businesses with tax dollars?

2:24:48Through you, Madam Chair,

2:24:49I actually don't know the answer to that question.

2:24:52I'd have to consult our legal colleagues to see

2:24:56where the implications around bonusing my land

2:24:58is on something like that,

2:24:59but happy to get back to Council as a whole with that answer.

2:25:02Yeah, that would be great,

2:25:03especially for the, before the end of the month.

2:25:06Thank you.

2:25:07Thanks, Councillor Billings.

2:25:08So I have some questions

2:25:09and then I know Councillor Goller has a motion.

2:25:11I also have a motion that Councillor Katelyn has agreed

2:25:14to put on the floor.

2:25:17I have a question probably from Ms. Baker.

2:25:20So we just approved our user fee policies,

2:25:23all of our financial policies we just approved.

2:25:26And I thought we were trying to make programs revenue neutral.

2:25:30So I thought our user fees were subsidized in certain cases,

2:25:35but not necessarily, right?

2:25:37So we will subsidize a kid going to the swimming pool.

2:25:41We will subsidize some things that would be really onerous,

2:25:44but we are going to take public land

2:25:47and then offer to subsidize a user fee

2:25:53for a commercial enterprise.

2:25:54So can I just hear from Finance

2:25:56how this aligns with our user fee policy?

2:26:03So to the chair,

2:26:06so our revenue budget and policy

2:26:07that we brought forward in March,

2:26:10set guidelines and considerations

2:26:14when departments or services look at their user fees.

2:26:20And there was a whole scale within that document

2:26:23in terms of considering the benefit

2:26:27of the service being provided.

2:26:29And so there was a scale

2:26:30and in terms of our best recommendation

2:26:34from a staff perspective, in this case,

2:26:3640% is being covered by user fees and 60% by the mat.

2:26:41And so really there was a shared,

2:26:45we looked at that benefit

2:26:46and who's benefiting from the value

2:26:48and felt that it was the appropriate

2:26:51or the best advice from staff

2:26:54for the funding of this program.

2:26:56And so I would say it's in alignment with the user,

2:27:00with the policy considering the benefit of that service.

2:27:07Thank you, Ms. Baker.

2:27:08So just further question on the use of the mat.

2:27:12My recollection when we approved

2:27:13the municipal accommodation tax,

2:27:15whether it would be used for things

2:27:17like wayfinding or really cool playground

2:27:20that was a tourist attraction,

2:27:21but something to be used by the general public, right?

2:27:25And not necessarily to subsidize an individual business.

2:27:29So I'm all for the patio program.

2:27:31I'm quite opposed to using the mat for it.

2:27:36I did ask staff what our expected mat revenues are

2:27:41for the city and the total is 820,000 annually,

2:27:45410,000 goes to the chamber for promotion,

2:27:48we keep $410,000.

2:27:51So can ask why we're gonna spend a quarter of the mat tax

2:27:55on the patio program on subsidizing private business?

2:28:00Through you, Madam Chair, but to you, Madam Chair.

2:28:06At the end of the day,

2:28:07we decided staff looked at the successful pilot program

2:28:13and the value that's it's created in our downtown

2:28:16and how it's truly become a destination driver

2:28:19and a visitor and a visitor and a tourism asset.

2:28:21And it's really the first one out of the gate

2:28:23and it's very, very successful.

2:28:26So ideally in the use of the mat tax,

2:28:29that allows us to create a sustainable program

2:28:33out of the gate now that could potentially go a long way

2:28:36to helping the businesses in our downtown core

2:28:39while they're still very much in recovery time.

2:28:42The other piece of that was to also again,

2:28:48address the fact that we are working with businesses

2:28:51who are getting the direct benefit to a program.

2:28:54And we thought it was a good balance between the use of mat

2:28:58and then applying the user fees that would

2:29:01and be seen as a partnership between businesses

2:29:03and the city in terms of the use

2:29:05of the municipal accommodation tax.

2:29:08There are plans to bring a draft,

2:29:10a high level draft budget around the plans

2:29:13for the municipal accommodation tax

2:29:15in partnership with our DMO partner to council

2:29:19as part of multi-year budget.

2:29:21And it will be able to provide more detail at that time

2:29:24around what those aspirations and plans are

2:29:26for the use of mat.

2:29:28But right now out of the gate,

2:29:29we see this as a really valuable destination development tool

2:29:32and a good way to use funds.

2:29:36Thank you.

2:29:37And Ms. Dunnigan, I would just ask you,

2:29:40would you like to clarify that it's not strictly

2:29:42for downtown patios, but actually anywhere in the city?

2:29:44Correct, yes, it is for all of Guelph.

2:29:46Thank you for that clarification, Madam Chair.

2:29:49So I have a question about parking.

2:29:51So a lot of the letters, a lot of concerns

2:29:53were regarding use of on-street parking spaces

2:29:57and removing those.

2:29:59Do we know what the utilization rates

2:30:00of the parkades were during the program?

2:30:02So I mean, is there still plenty of space in the parkades?

2:30:08Through you and to you, Madam Chair.

2:30:10So the rates of the parkades have remained

2:30:16relatively consistent at about 55 to 65% empty.

2:30:23Where we have seen, where parking services staff

2:30:26have noted an increase is in the MacDonell lot for parking.

2:30:30But that again, has been changed to the two hour

2:30:34on-street free model to support the loss of parking spaces

2:30:41in the downtown.

2:30:46So I just wanna be sure I've understood.

2:30:49So the city's gonna lose revenues

2:30:51on the MacDonell parking lot as well and subsidized.

2:30:55Is that what I'm hearing?

2:30:58Through you, to you, Madam Chair.

2:31:01Only to the end of 2023 as a pandemic recovery measure,

2:31:08not beyond.

2:31:09Okay, thanks.

2:31:11My other question is with the accessibility advisory committee.

2:31:14So they were advocating for fines.

2:31:16And I'm wondering if you've explored a model

2:31:19where after a certain number of warnings,

2:31:21there would be a fine, right?

2:31:23So under AODA, we need to be totally accessible

2:31:27in Ontario by 2025.

2:31:29Do we have a plan for that if there are sort of usual people

2:31:34who are consistently not accessible?

2:31:38Through you, to you, Madam Chair.

2:31:43Instead of implementing a fine

2:31:44because this is an encroachment agreement on city land,

2:31:47we do have the right to revoke that encroachment agreement

2:31:51if they are not in compliant with policies

2:31:53that implement the patios,

2:31:55including AODA, Compliancy and Accessibility.

2:31:59Great, okay.

2:32:00And my last question for you, Mr. Roski,

2:32:02as you said, it's a 10 year encroachment agreement,

2:32:07but we're going to be doing massive downtown infrastructure

2:32:10works.

2:32:11I was just in Kitchener, they're doing a beautiful job

2:32:13in their downtown with big, wide, dirt patios, right?

2:32:16Which would change the necessity perhaps to encroach.

2:32:18So how will this program, permanent program work

2:32:23through the downtown works?

2:32:26And then do we have an opportunity afterwards

2:32:28to revise how the whole plan works

2:32:31because the space will be quite different in say 10 years.

2:32:35Through you, to you, Madam Chair.

2:32:37Yes, so we will be working with businesses

2:32:42along impacted corridors during the downtown renewal work

2:32:45to identify where patios can still be set up

2:32:49and where they won't be able to

2:32:50as we rip up the streets and reinstall them.

2:32:53But we will be looking at ways that we can use

2:32:57flexible public space to activate

2:33:00in collaboration with our business community

2:33:03once the streets are put back together

2:33:05and ways that we can revitalize that.

2:33:08Okay, thanks very much.

2:33:10Any other questions from Council?

2:33:14I don't see any, I know Councillor Goller has a motion.

2:33:17Councillor Goller?

2:33:20Thank you, and through you, Chair O'Rourke,

2:33:24I would like to move a motion

2:33:25if I could ask the clerk still to pull it on.

2:33:27And as it comes on, I'm really hearing from the delegates

2:33:32and the folks that have written letters

2:33:35and my constituents who use the patios,

2:33:37they all support the improvement to the feel

2:33:41and the look of the downtown.

2:33:43My concern is that the sharp change will mean

2:33:47that the few businesses that are doing quite well

2:33:51with the patios will keep the patios,

2:33:53but we might lose maybe half of the patios.

2:33:56And so for that reason, I'm moving this motion,

2:34:00that the monthly fee per square meter

2:34:02will be faced in over the next three years

2:34:05with the understanding that the additional costs

2:34:08would be put on the municipal accommodation tax.

2:34:12And as I table this,

2:34:13I would just like to give a moment for staff

2:34:15to let us know if the funds

2:34:18for the municipal accommodation tax

2:34:20have been earmarked for something or if there's leeway,

2:34:23but I will wait for a second there before that happens.

2:34:29Okay, Mayor Goller, three seconds.

2:34:31Any questions?

2:34:35And questions?

2:34:37Yeah, the question I would like to ask staff first,

2:34:40give me an opportunity to comment

2:34:41and to ask if we were to face this in over a couple of years,

2:34:44has the municipal accommodation tax that other 75% of it,

2:34:48has that been earmarked or spoken for,

2:34:50or is there room for this to take place?

2:34:55Through you chair to Councillor Goller.

2:34:59So we look forward to coming to council later on this year

2:35:03with the multi-year budget,

2:35:05which includes the municipal accommodation tax

2:35:07and how it has been allocated.

2:35:10The economic development and tourism strategy

2:35:12does outline how we plan to use

2:35:14the municipal accommodation tax,

2:35:16and that includes through police making

2:35:19and wayfinding strategies, infrastructure investments,

2:35:23as well as programming and financial support

2:35:28for tourism product development,

2:35:31which we look forward to implementing.

2:35:35So to answer your question, succinctly, yes,

2:35:39we have allocated however, if council would like us

2:35:44to come back with what it would look like,

2:35:47we're happy to do that for the end of the month.

2:35:50Thank you very much for that.

2:35:52Councillor Alder has a point of order.

2:35:54Thank you very much. Just a quick point of order.

2:35:56I saw the resolution that Councillor Goller emailed,

2:36:00and then I saw the resolution on screen,

2:36:02and I'm just trying to figure out which is it

2:36:04that we are voting on.

2:36:05If we are voting on both parts,

2:36:06I would request that they be separated.

2:36:13For clarification, when I sent the email,

2:36:15it was the original motion from staff,

2:36:16and then I added my second motion.

2:36:19So perhaps Councillor.

2:36:21The amendment is only on the fee per square meter.

2:36:25Fazed in over three years.

2:36:27Could we therefore have the motion on screen?

2:36:29Second. There you go.

2:36:30So, okay, so the motion is on the floor.

2:36:33This is the only thing we're voting on right now.

2:36:35That's correct.

2:36:36Thank you very much.

2:36:38Speaking to the motion then.

2:36:41You have a question?

2:36:42Yes.

2:36:44Yes. Chair.

2:36:46So I can see where Councillor, thank you, through you.

2:36:48I can see where Councillor Allt's going here.

2:36:51This is kind of like a standalone motion.

2:36:54It's not really an amendment.

2:36:56So I think what Councillor Allt is going is to say,

2:36:59like, should we just at least call the vote

2:37:02on the main motion?

2:37:03And then if this is a separate one, then so be it.

2:37:06But if it's an amendment, we should have,

2:37:09I think that's where Councillor Allt's going.

2:37:11I'm just wondering.

2:37:12I'm not sure actually,

2:37:13because we're talking about the entire program,

2:37:15which talks about a bringing in the fees.

2:37:17So I'll actually allow.

2:37:19So you're going to stand as an amendment?

2:37:21As an amendment?

2:37:22Yes.

2:37:22I just wanted to clarify.

2:37:23The plan that is being discussed right now,

2:37:25doesn't talk about a phasing in.

2:37:27And so I'll let that motion stand.

2:37:30Councillor Allt, the email had both the original motion

2:37:36and this new motion.

2:37:37So actually, rather than explain things for you,

2:37:40could you would like to clarify your intent?

2:37:42Yes, my intent was to split it.

2:37:45It's kind of funny the way we're going about this now.

2:37:47My intent was to split it because I actually wasn't even

2:37:50certain that we had the original motion on the floor.

2:37:52And okay, so it's been moved in second.

2:37:54That's fine.

2:37:56My concern therefore about this is I do know

2:37:59there's another motion that is coming forward as well.

2:38:02And it strikes me that both this and the other motion

2:38:05should really be referred to staff,

2:38:07because at this point I'm not comfortable

2:38:09because I don't know what the implications of this might be.

2:38:13But at the end of the month,

2:38:14if these were to both go to staff,

2:38:16we could see the implications of those

2:38:19with a report back from staff.

2:38:22So that is a great question for staff

2:38:25and would perhaps affect the outcome of the vote

2:38:28or have the mover reframe his...

2:38:30Yes, I couldn't support it without knowing that.

2:38:33Okay, so that wasn't a question.

2:38:36It was still the point of order.

2:38:38So staff can't answer, but I will ask staff to respond,

2:38:41please, to whether it be helpful to wait till the end

2:38:44of the month to look at some different options,

2:38:48including a phase in.

2:38:50So through you, Madam Chair,

2:38:51can I get to you, Councillor Aalto, to repeat it?

2:38:54I was talking to our CFO about what is this on the screen.

2:38:57And so I'm not sure we completely heard the question.

2:39:00So if you just repeat the question,

2:39:02we were probably talking about the same thing,

2:39:03but just that will help us just jump right in

2:39:06with an answer here.

2:39:08Thank you very much, CAO Stuart.

2:39:12What is this thing called love?

2:39:14I think that we're probably on the same page on this.

2:39:17I wasn't clear at that point.

2:39:19And so consequently, I couldn't support the motion.

2:39:21It strikes me that it's an amendment,

2:39:23which is requiring a phase in over three years

2:39:26from what I've heard.

2:39:28So if you can answer that, or if someone can answer that.

2:39:33So through you, Madam Chair, I'll start here.

2:39:35And I think the clarity for me, because I'm a bit,

2:39:38I want to be simple on this as well.

2:39:39I think on page nine of your report, the big dollars,

2:39:43the 170, let me go there,

2:39:46so I'm actually working from it as well.

2:39:48That's the important stuff for I,

2:39:49and that's what Ms. Baker and I were talking about.

2:39:51The program costs 175,000.

2:39:54The motion says phase in,

2:39:55but I'm not sure where you're starting from of that amount.

2:39:59And then I'm not sure what you anticipate it to be each year.

2:40:02And maybe it's just divide 70,000 by three.

2:40:06And then it should actually stipulate

2:40:09that you would like it to come from Matt,

2:40:12because the only choices on that list are its user fees,

2:40:15it's Matt, or it's the taxpayers of Guelph.

2:40:18So I think clarity is also helpful

2:40:20so that this doesn't get lost.

2:40:22And I'm not saying you weren't trying to get clarity,

2:40:24I'm just want us to all get there.

2:40:27And maybe we can either, you get the general gist today,

2:40:30or that's something that we bring as a recommendation

2:40:33when it's at council at the end of the month,

2:40:35so that we're not doing math on the fly.

2:40:37And then we could also maybe talk to councillor Goller

2:40:40directly about this,

2:40:41so that we get it 100% correct on those bigger numbers,

2:40:45because I don't want to get any math lost

2:40:46in the transition from a square meters to,

2:40:49the program's $175,000,

2:40:52and it's got to be covered or the program can't go.

2:40:56So actually, CEO Stewart,

2:40:58I'm just wondering, Councillor Goller,

2:41:02we have two questions.

2:41:03So I have a motion coming that is about the funding source.

2:41:06And your question is about timing and phasing in.

2:41:10So I'm wondering if you would consider rewarding your motion

2:41:16so that staff have an opportunity before the end of the month

2:41:20to come back with options on how it's paid for,

2:41:23and then whether phasing in is an option or not.

2:41:30To your chair, Rourke,

2:41:31yes, I'll work on rewarding so that it's clear

2:41:34that my intention is that the additional funds

2:41:37do come from the municipal accommodation tax

2:41:39and not from the property tax base.

2:41:43And the phasing, currently,

2:41:45there is a cost of $3 per square meter for the season,

2:41:49and it's going up to $10 per square meter per month.

2:41:54And however, staff figure that that could be divided,

2:41:58just so that instead of going from 180 bucks a year

2:42:01to $3,000 per year, we might go in a couple of steps.

2:42:06That is my intention.

2:42:07Okay, so would you like to withdraw the motion?

2:42:10I will, and then I'll send an email momentarily

2:42:15to everyone else.

2:42:16Okay, so I need your seconder to also withdraw,

2:42:19agree to withdraw.

2:42:24Is your mic on?

2:42:27So is your microphone on?

2:42:28I'm happy to withdraw, and I'd like to also chair

2:42:30just make a suggestion if you don't mind

2:42:33after you remove the motion.

2:42:35Okay, anyone opposed to removing of the motion?

2:42:39No, okay, Mayor Guthrie, your comment.

2:42:43Thank you, just to help, ignore me if you wish,

2:42:46but Councillor Goller has sort of this financial question.

2:42:50You have a financial question chair,

2:42:53and then I heard earlier Councillor Billings ask

2:42:55sort of an impact of financial questions

2:42:57that may even include legal.

2:42:59So it seems to me like we have three things going on

2:43:02where we just collectively need more information.

2:43:04I think we could all agree with that.

2:43:07And so I'm just wondering how staff would feel

2:43:10through you, Chair, how they would like to

2:43:16come back before the end of the month

2:43:17with an updated memo or something like that

2:43:19that could become public for the addendum.

2:43:21Do you require motions on all three of those things

2:43:27or in normal sort of working together,

2:43:29teamwork arena here, are you hearing what our comments are?

2:43:35Could you take them away and at least provide us

2:43:38with that information without the need of motions

2:43:40before the end of the month?

2:43:41Because you can kind of tell where we're going.

2:43:44Three Madam Chair, we could absolutely deal

2:43:46with our motions for the end of the month.

2:43:48On the three items, Councillor Billings was bonus in,

2:43:51Councillor O'Rourke, you're asking,

2:43:53really both of you are asking about who pays the tab.

2:43:56So I think we could do that and give you the memo

2:44:00and give you lots of clarity,

2:44:01and then you could vote to your heart's content

2:44:04on however you want to do this.

2:44:07Okay, so to be clear, I think Councillor Goller

2:44:11and I are going to be an opposite end to the spectrum.

2:44:12I don't support use of the MAT far in excess

2:44:16of what the user fee is and to erode that amount.

2:44:19So I'll give it back to staff,

2:44:21take a look at what those options are.

2:44:23I don't think that was certainly my original understanding

2:44:26of how the MAT tax was going to be used.

2:44:29Councillor Katelyn, you also had a motion.

2:44:33So my motion would also fit into the takeaway

2:44:36because I was going to ask that the city staff

2:44:38be directed to report to city council

2:44:41at the end of the month meeting regarding the fee structure

2:44:44and broader impact of a three season patio program

2:44:47because the lowering of the times of the patio program

2:44:52impacts the equity and use of those who,

2:44:56because as much as a lot of folks are no longer

2:44:59taking COVID safety protocols, we still have COVID.

2:45:03And for a lot of folks,

2:45:05that means that the patio is the only place

2:45:07that they can safely eat and participate

2:45:11in the downtown economy.

2:45:12So I was interested in having a expansion

2:45:16of the patio season rather than closing it down.

2:45:22So it doesn't need to be a motion

2:45:23if that's something that can also be brought back.

2:45:25So I, Councillor Katelyn, I'd have a point of order

2:45:27and I need to go to the point of order first.

2:45:29I apologize, Councillor O'Rourke and Councillor Katelyn

2:45:32and Councillor Goller and Councillor everybody.

2:45:36But I am looking at the recommendation

2:45:38as it currently stands.

2:45:40And I am wondering whether this recommendation

2:45:42because of all of the extra information

2:45:45should now be tabled, referred to for whatever

2:45:49until the end of the month.

2:45:52The recommendation as it stands strikes me

2:45:54as not necessarily entirely viable

2:45:57as we're sending staff away to do a number of things.

2:46:00Is that appropriate?

2:46:02I'm asking the chair.

2:46:06Are you making a motion to refer?

2:46:08I would make a motion to, do we call it refer or defer?

2:46:13No, defer stops everything.

2:46:16Refer, refer to the end of the month

2:46:18with a report from staff.

2:46:19Is open to debate and can be amended.

2:46:22Mr. Clerk, I'll seek your advice here.

2:46:23Yeah, if I may chair O'Rourke and thank you.

2:46:26The only advice I would provide is for council

2:46:28and committee to understand that really committee

2:46:31the whole moving on to council is in effect

2:46:33a referral in and of itself based

2:46:35on sort of our governance model.

2:46:36So if this is, if the recommendation on the agenda

2:46:39is adopted tonight, then it will flow

2:46:42to the end of the month as is.

2:46:44And if staff per CEO, stewards comments

2:46:47are willing to come back with information

2:46:49that can give more context and responses

2:46:51to some of the questions that council may have

2:46:54then that will come to fruition at the end of the month

2:46:58in July here when this comes back to council.

2:47:00So a referral is perfectly in order

2:47:02if chair O'Rourke you choose for it to be permitted

2:47:05but in effect the recommendation on the agenda

2:47:07is in effect a referral to council

2:47:09at the end of the month for final decision.

2:47:10Great, so I'm feeling it's not necessary

2:47:12because in effect we've given some not formal direction

2:47:16but raised a number of questions that need to be answered

2:47:20before we can codify everything at the end of the month.

2:47:23Okay, so folks we're back to the main motion

2:47:28with the exception.

2:47:29I wanna go back to Councillor Caton though

2:47:30because Councillor Caton's question is not about funding it

2:47:33it is about its duration.

2:47:35So Councillor Caton the floor is yours again.

2:47:39Yeah, so basically I wanted to make sure

2:47:41that we had options for people

2:47:45to have a longer season of patio usage.

2:47:49But my question was about the fee structure

2:47:51and the broader impact of a three season patio program.

2:47:55So I don't know if we need to do that as a motion now

2:47:58or if that's something that staff can take away

2:48:00and come back with just as information on their own.

2:48:04So I'm wondering if staff would like to comment

2:48:06on the length of the program

2:48:07and why you landed where you did,

2:48:09what some options might be for all season dining

2:48:13and then the financial part can come back

2:48:16at the end of the month, so that makes sense.

2:48:18Is that suitable Councillor Caton?

2:48:24Through you chair to Councillor Caton.

2:48:27So the development of the dates

2:48:31for the seasonal patio program were developed

2:48:34because of the use of patios,

2:48:37particularly in the first month, April

2:48:39and the last month, October of the program

2:48:42that is currently in operation right now.

2:48:45With those reduced activation times,

2:48:50taking patios off the streets

2:48:51and reinvesting that parking was part of that decision

2:48:56in consideration of businesses

2:48:58who do not operate patios as well as those who do.

2:49:02In addition, we also are in consideration

2:49:06of our operations staff who are in winter control

2:49:09until April 15th every season.

2:49:12And then we often have things like concrete repair

2:49:15that has to occur, and those kinds of things

2:49:18aren't really available until at least the end of April.

2:49:21So that's where that beginning date kind of came from.

2:49:26And then October leaf collection

2:49:29and those kinds of things in preparing for winter

2:49:31as well as the reduced use of the patios

2:49:34was where we kind of came together

2:49:36with those dates that we've presented.

2:49:40In reference, I do think it would be great

2:49:42for a staff to take it away

2:49:44and consider what it would look like

2:49:46and what the impacts would be cost wise

2:49:48and operationally for an extension.

2:49:54Okay, so procedurally any Councillor can put a motion down.

2:49:58And as long as you have a seconder, we need to vote,

2:50:00but I just wanna make sure Councillor Caton,

2:50:01are you okay with the response that you got

2:50:04and then waiting till the end of the month

2:50:05for more detail on that?

2:50:08Yes, I'm fine to wait till the end of the month.

2:50:10Thank you very much.

2:50:11Okay, Councillor Klassen also has a motion.

2:50:15Thank you.

2:50:17So I wanna just say, I love the patio program

2:50:21before I continue with my motions.

2:50:23I think it's great.

2:50:25I don't need to be long about it.

2:50:27It's bringing life to downtown and that is what we need.

2:50:31People like Richard connecting with people in our communities

2:50:34and making it a vibrant place.

2:50:36So I'm all for it.

2:50:39I hear both sides of the arguments

2:50:43and so that's when where this motion comes up.

2:50:46So I've had a number of conversations with folks downtown,

2:50:49business owners who don't have a direct benefit

2:50:53from the patio program.

2:50:56Doesn't mean it's not great.

2:50:57It just means that they're feeling,

2:51:00they're not feeling the love.

2:51:02So in reference to that,

2:51:04I've had a number of conversations with regard to parking

2:51:06and I think that potentially this motion

2:51:08might address some of that.

2:51:09So I'll just read it out since it's on the screen.

2:51:15That in preparation for the seasonal patio program,

2:51:17staff be directed to research and report back to council

2:51:20by Q1 2024.

2:51:22On the following options for businesses impacted

2:51:24by reductions in downtown parking.

2:51:27Oh, sorry, I didn't get a seconder.

2:51:29Thank you.

2:51:30Yeah, no, I'm reading it still, right?

2:51:32Okay.

2:51:33I'm just reading it's course.

2:51:34Go ahead.

2:51:35The conversion, so the first part,

2:51:37the conversion of a small number of two hour parking spots

2:51:40to temporary short term parking spaces during business hours

2:51:43and or the creation of a program where businesses

2:51:46can offer free parking to their customers

2:51:48in the city parkades to offset the reduced

2:51:50on street two hour parking.

2:51:53I think this might address some of the concerns

2:51:56from the other side.

2:51:59Thank you, councillor class.

2:52:00And here's what I will propose

2:52:01because these are really about parking

2:52:03and not about the permanent patio program.

2:52:09I would like to call a vote on the permanent patio program

2:52:13permitting process and then come back to your motion.

2:52:17And do you have a secondary?

2:52:18So we're all lined up.

2:52:20So you can see councillor Goller is going to second that.

2:52:22Okay.

2:52:22So I'd like to call a vote on the main motion.

2:52:30Okay.

2:52:31We can pull up the main motion.

2:52:34And then what we'll do is we'll just go to the parking piece.

2:52:36Okay.

2:52:38So the seasonal patio program as described

2:52:40in the permanent seasonal patio program report

2:52:42due to July 5th be approved pending budget approval

2:52:45as part of the 2024 or 2027 multi-year budget.

2:52:49Is anyone opposed?

2:52:53Okay.

2:52:54That passes.

2:52:56And then we'll go back to councillor Klassen

2:52:59for your motions, which are related

2:53:00to the property, but not a little bit separate.

2:53:03Okay.

2:53:04So those motions are on the floor.

2:53:06They have been read.

2:53:08Councillor Goller seconded.

2:53:10Are there any questions?

2:53:11Mayor Guthrie.

2:53:13Thank you.

2:53:14I just want to through you chair to staff

2:53:16especially on the second one.

2:53:21I just wanted to ask maybe to the mover first,

2:53:25are you trying to implement something like immediate

2:53:28like this summer?

2:53:29I think if this gets,

2:53:30if your motion passed at the council meeting

2:53:32at the end of this month,

2:53:33are you looking for something to hit on August the first?

2:53:37What was your intent behind the timing

2:53:39of your second motion?

2:53:42So the timing is, I think to report back by Q122 and four.

2:53:47So it's not for this summer.

2:53:50I don't think that would be a sufficient amount of time

2:53:53to explore some of the options,

2:53:55especially if there's price tags associated with them.

2:53:58So I think an appropriate amount of time

2:54:00would be necessary.

2:54:02I'm so sorry to you, Councillor Klassen.

2:54:06I missed the first part on Q1.

2:54:08So my apologies for asking a very redundant question,

2:54:12but I still have a second question then.

2:54:16And that would be just then through the staff chair

2:54:19through you.

2:54:21How does that timing align

2:54:23with the downtown parking master plan?

2:54:26And could both of those just be instead referred?

2:54:33So it's still passing the motions,

2:54:34but referred to the downtown parking master plan.

2:54:40And then that way it's embedded

2:54:42within that wholesome report

2:54:44where we get a full comprehensive view on everything,

2:54:48how everything's moving in regards to parking

2:54:50if it comes before Q1 next year.

2:54:56Through the chair to Mayor Graf 3.

2:54:57So yes, the downtown parking plan is coming in September

2:55:00and some of this information,

2:55:01plus a lot of other information

2:55:03will be available in that report.

2:55:06Okay, as a follow up through you chair, if you don't mind.

2:55:10You just said some of this information

2:55:12will be already embedded in that report.

2:55:15So I just need to drill down on that.

2:55:17Are you specifically saying exactly

2:55:19what Councillor Klassen has moved

2:55:21will already be addressed in that report?

2:55:26Yes, it will.

2:55:27Oh, okay.

2:55:31So maybe through you chair,

2:55:33based on that answer from staff,

2:55:35now that you know that your exact two things

2:55:37are going to be addressed in September,

2:55:39do you, I'll leave it to you chair

2:55:42to determine whether this is a needed motion then or not.

2:55:46I'll go to the mover.

2:55:51I think my intention was specifically with regard to,

2:55:56you know, the folks downtown,

2:55:58it's in reference to the patio program specifically,

2:56:02the downtown master plan,

2:56:03I'm assuming is, you know, all,

2:56:06so it is just downtown.

2:56:07So will there be this type of exploration of program

2:56:12or do I still need the motion to explore options

2:56:17for those who are impacted by the patio program?

2:56:22Through the chair to Councillor Klassen.

2:56:24So yes, the downtown parking plan is just for downtown,

2:56:29but if you want us to explore beyond that,

2:56:31it would be additional work,

2:56:32which we would that could report in Q1 2024,

2:56:36if the concern is beyond the downtown.

2:56:44What would you like to do, Councillor Klassen?

2:56:46I think I would let it stand as it is,

2:56:49just because it's an exploration

2:56:50and it's not, we're not spending any money

2:56:53at this point in time, right?

2:56:55So if it's already being, right, I'm sorry.

2:56:59It's okay, we can ask staff what the,

2:57:01what the like workload looks like

2:57:03and what the implications are if you'd like to do that.

2:57:07You can certainly let your motion stand.

2:57:15Chair O'Rourke, I just, thank you so much.

2:57:18Thank you.

2:57:19I just want to ask one more time.

2:57:20So we're all really clear

2:57:21because maybe I'm the one that's not clear.

2:57:23I just heard staff say that in the report

2:57:25that's coming forward in September,

2:57:28that the very two things you've tabled

2:57:30are going to be addressed in that report.

2:57:32So I'm not understanding why we need a motion

2:57:36for something that we've just heard our staff say

2:57:38is coming back in September.

2:57:50Okay, so maybe then can you just clarify

2:57:53what will be in the parking master plan

2:57:56with regard to those two issues?

2:58:01You know, I know if it's,

2:58:02if there's already a structure in place for that,

2:58:04just so that I know that it's being,

2:58:06when it comes across,

2:58:07it will be addressing some of the patio concerns specifically.

2:58:14Through the chair to Councillor Klassen.

2:58:16So the downtown parking master plan

2:58:18is talking about utilization rates

2:58:23and time of usage.

2:58:23So it's going to cover off a lot of information

2:58:26that may already be what you're looking for.

2:58:30I think perhaps just to get certain clarity,

2:58:33we all can meet with you between now

2:58:35and the end of the month

2:58:35and make sure you're comfortable with where

2:58:38if we have the information covered off

2:58:41and if not, then the motion can continue

2:58:45on at the end of the month

2:58:46because it was a Q1 reporting date.

2:58:49Okay, yes.

2:58:51Because yeah, I'd love to see like a subsection

2:58:53in the master plan that references the, you know,

2:58:57the patio program.

2:59:00Okay, so if that's suitable,

2:59:03would you like to withdraw the motion?

2:59:05Cause you can bring it at the end of the month

2:59:06or you can bring it when actually

2:59:08the downtown parking master plan comes back

2:59:10if it's not in there, right?

2:59:12So I'm just asking what you'd like to do with the motion.

2:59:16Sure, by the end of the month, we all,

2:59:18okay, so we're gonna withdraw the motion.

2:59:21Councillor Goller, do you agree?

2:59:23Okay, is anyone on council opposed

2:59:25to withdraw all of that motion?

2:59:26It's a little messy today.

2:59:27All right, wonderful.

2:59:30So we have voted on the main motion.

2:59:32It is passed.

2:59:34So, and we will pick up the debate again

2:59:36at the end of the month.

2:59:38That is the only agenda item for IDE.

2:59:42I will require everyone now,

2:59:44every time we talk about patios, say private patio,

2:59:46private property patio permitting process,

2:59:49every single time we talk about it,

2:59:51and it should be part of the permitting process.

2:59:53Okay, that is approved.

2:59:55We are going to take, is it a 30 minute dinner break?

3:00:00So it is five o'clock.

3:00:02We are gonna take a dinner break.

3:00:04Councillor Chew, did you have a question about a dinner break?

3:00:11Well, through you, through you, Madam Chair,

3:00:15I was just wondering if we can perhaps

3:00:17go through the consent agenda first

3:00:19and then pause for dinner.

3:00:22So then our ambulance chief can go home.

3:00:26Yes, that's an excellent suggestion.

3:00:28Thank you very much.

3:00:29Okay, it's actually not my committee

3:00:32on that consent agenda.

3:00:34Pardon?

3:00:35It's Councillor Chew's committee.

3:00:36So Councillor Chew, you wanna trade places?

3:00:40Yeah, you can do it.

3:00:40Yeah, just go for it.

3:00:43Okay.

3:00:45Let's just make life easier, right?

3:00:46I feel so much younger all of a sudden.

3:00:48I'm Councillor Chew, awesome.

3:00:50Okay, so our consent agenda on the public services agenda

3:00:55is item 10.1, Paramedic Services Response Time 2022

3:00:59and Performance Plan 2024.

3:01:03There are two recommendations.

3:01:05Did anybody wanna pull that report?

3:01:08Looking around, I see nobody wanting to pull a report.

3:01:12Anyone, oh, Councillor Billings, are you moving?

3:01:16Moving, do I have a seconder?

3:01:18Councillor Allt, is anyone opposed?

3:01:22I see no one opposed.

3:01:23Thank you very much, Chief Dewar,

3:01:25for your work, for the paramedics work,

3:01:27and for your ongoing commitment, we appreciate it.

3:01:30Okay, now I will call the dinner break.

3:01:3430 minutes, it's exactly five, so we'll come back at 5.30.

3:35:00All right, everybody.

3:35:02I'd like to call the meeting to order

3:35:04for the public services portion of our meeting.

3:35:08Hope everyone had a great dinner.

3:35:10Hope you guys showed me some grace as well.

3:35:12I'm first time in the driver's seat,

3:35:14so I don't wanna steer the ship ashore.

3:35:19All right, I guess just to recap for those joining us online,

3:35:22we already went through the consent agenda

3:35:25prior to our dinner,

3:35:26and that was for the Paramedic Services Response Time 2022

3:35:30and Performance Plan 2024.

3:35:33And now, I guess we can move into items for discussion.

3:35:3911.1, Biola review update 2023-256.

3:35:45I believe we have some delegations.

3:35:49Or okay, Councillor Goller,

3:35:51you'd like to speak to this item.

3:35:53Thank you, and through your chair too.

3:35:58I have sent motions to Council and to Clerk,

3:36:01so perhaps if it would be appropriate

3:36:04in advance of the delegations,

3:36:05if we can just show the motions

3:36:06and maybe put them on the floor,

3:36:07so the delegations are speaking to the motions,

3:36:11if that is okay with you.

3:36:14Yeah, sure.

3:36:15We're all on the same page.

3:36:16No problem.

3:36:17And I'll take a moment as we,

3:36:21to read these out, so we're all on the same page.

3:36:24And this stems back to from a staff report,

3:36:27that an information report from June 9th

3:36:30that had a list of the current Biolas

3:36:32that City Staff is working on

3:36:34and updating on their work plan.

3:36:39And over the last five years,

3:36:43I've heard from my constituents

3:36:44that have asked for some of these things on and off

3:36:47to be looked at by the City.

3:36:49So as we have received the report

3:36:52with the schedule of Biolas that the City is working on,

3:36:57this was an opportunity for us to say,

3:37:00maybe add some other ones to the workload,

3:37:02maybe take some off.

3:37:03So the first part of my motion,

3:37:05it's that staff report back by October 2023

3:37:08on any Biola reviews that are recommended

3:37:10to be removed from the work plan

3:37:12in order to free up resources.

3:37:14Looking at that work plan,

3:37:15there are some Biolas that are going to be considered

3:37:20and direction was given from a previous term of council,

3:37:25going back to 2010, 2014.

3:37:28So this is an opportunity for us to tell us

3:37:31if they are still relevant current

3:37:33or if some of them can be taken off

3:37:35from the future work plan.

3:37:37Number two is that staff report back by October 2023

3:37:41on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

3:37:44in order to add in an update to the noise Biola

3:37:48to explore the use of vehicle noise cameras in Guelph.

3:37:52Vehicle noise cameras are currently being used in Toronto

3:37:54and Edmonton and in other cities across North America.

3:37:58And with this motion specifically,

3:38:01it is to explore the use of vehicle noise cameras.

3:38:05I don't know what the regulatory changes

3:38:08would be required at the city level

3:38:10or at the provincial level.

3:38:11So number two is asking staff to look into it

3:38:14and to tell us if we could bring vehicle noise cameras

3:38:20to Guelph or not and what it would take.

3:38:23Number three is that staff report back by October 2023

3:38:27on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

3:38:29in order to add in the creation of a Biola

3:38:32that contains smokeless recreational wood burning fires.

3:38:36At present, the city prohibits all wood burning fires

3:38:41in recreational wood burning fires.

3:38:43However, I know that many wealth residents

3:38:46have in fact backyard fires.

3:38:49And this is a way to bring those people into compliance.

3:38:53I did do a look around neighboring municipalities

3:38:57and about a dozen municipalities in Ontario have guidelines.

3:39:01Some of them are very prescriptive.

3:39:03You need to get a permit from the fire chief.

3:39:05Some of them say if you have this specific device

3:39:08that doesn't allow for smoke

3:39:11or within this distance from property lines,

3:39:14you're allowed to do it.

3:39:15So at this point, there's just direction for staff

3:39:17to explore what it would take

3:39:20to allow recreational backyard fires in the city.

3:39:24Number four is that staff report back

3:39:27by October 2023 on the proposed timelines

3:39:30for changes to the work plan

3:39:32in order to add in the creation of a Biola

3:39:35banning the use and sale of fireworks.

3:39:37With this one here, I get complaints every year

3:39:45leading up to those couple of days

3:39:47that we're allowed to use fireworks.

3:39:48And after that, while most residents understand

3:39:53that we have fireworks for Canada Day,

3:39:56for New Year's Eve,

3:39:59the concerns that I'm hearing from my residents

3:40:01is that there is a use of fireworks

3:40:05in the week leading up and the week leading

3:40:08after those special events.

3:40:10So here the direction is for staff to look at

3:40:14what it would take to ban the sale of fireworks in the city

3:40:18and perhaps allow the use of drones

3:40:22to be used for light shows

3:40:24or allow fireworks on those specific dates.

3:40:28But I would be looking to ban the sale

3:40:31to the public of large within the city limits.

3:40:35So if I could have a seconder to put these on the floor.

3:40:39Yes, do you have Councillor Allt?

3:40:42Yeah, Councillor Allt would like to speak.

3:40:45It's okay, I'll let you speak to it first as well,

3:40:48just so we're kind of on topic.

3:40:49And then when we get to the delegation

3:40:51right after this quick.

3:40:53Thank you very much, Chair Chew.

3:40:55I appreciate that.

3:40:57I think the motions that have been presented

3:40:59by Councillor Goller are worthy of consideration.

3:41:03It is not necessarily the case

3:41:05that I will ultimately support all of them,

3:41:07but I think that we have to address the rationale

3:41:12and the reasoning behind many of the things

3:41:14that we do and don't do.

3:41:15For example, I've always been a fan of fireworks.

3:41:19I think they're wonderful, they're fun,

3:41:21but I also recognize that fireworks are getting bigger

3:41:24and they're louder and they are now no longer

3:41:29just the fireworks that we might have set off

3:41:31in our backyards, but many people are buying fireworks

3:41:35that are going beyond the pyrotechnics

3:41:37to being actually in some cases, dangerous.

3:41:41Similarly, yes, we have many citizens

3:41:44who do like to have backyard fires.

3:41:47I think there are some sound reasons for not having them.

3:41:50If we only merely reiterate why we are doing things,

3:41:54this is an important opportunity for council

3:41:58to determine what's still right

3:42:01or whether as times change,

3:42:03we have to bend with the times as well.

3:42:06Okay, thank you for that commentary.

3:42:09Why don't we get to our delegations

3:42:10just so we can get that moving?

3:42:14Because we have a few moving parts here,

3:42:16but all encompassing, we're talking about the bylaw review.

3:42:19But yes, let's go to the delegate.

3:42:24I see we have Donna Jensen from No More Noids Guelph.

3:42:35Can you hear me?

3:42:36Hi, this is Councillor Chew, can you hear me?

3:42:39Yes, I can.

3:42:41All right, so you have five minutes to speak

3:42:46and your time starts now.

3:42:49Okay, thank you so much.

3:42:50Good afternoon, everyone,

3:42:52and thank you for the opportunity to speak today

3:42:54and for the great discussion I've been listening in

3:42:56for since two o'clock,

3:42:57and I love what you're all bringing to the table.

3:43:00So thank you.

3:43:02I am part of No More Noids Guelph.

3:43:04We are a group of residents who want to see the city

3:43:06and the police take coordinated and considerate actions

3:43:10to address the problem of excessive noise vehicles

3:43:13on the city streets.

3:43:15And to that end,

3:43:15we strongly support bringing the Noids bylaw review forward

3:43:19into this year's review process

3:43:21in order to explore a noise camera pilot program.

3:43:25That the excessive noise is on the rise

3:43:27and second only to air pollution

3:43:29as the top environmental health has.

3:43:32Studies show that excessive noise triggers

3:43:42excessive noise triggers a taskative reactions in the body

3:43:48beyond our control,

3:43:49including the release of stress hormones,

3:43:52which over time lead to heart disease,

3:43:54high pretensions, weak disturbances and others.

3:43:57Serious health issues.

3:43:58Now the intermittent noise produced by extreme vehicles

3:44:02and aggressive driving habits like stunt driving

3:44:05breaks through background level noise

3:44:07and is even more detrimental to public health

3:44:09even if the average decibel levels are comparable.

3:44:13And since COVID, there's been a sharp increase

3:44:16in the excessive noise of stunt driving,

3:44:18revving of motorbikes, extreme car engines

3:44:21and altered mufflers,

3:44:22using loud exhaust pipes and modifications

3:44:25to intentionally make noise.

3:44:27These drivers travel along our city streets day and night,

3:44:31disturbing hundreds if not thousands of people

3:44:33in their wake.

3:44:34According to OPT Sergeant Terry Smith,

3:44:38stunt driving alone increased in excess of 120% since COVID

3:44:43and 140% since the beginning of 2022.

3:44:47Stunt driving, speeding, extreme vehicles

3:44:50and aggressive driving are all very closely linked,

3:44:54are increasing and due to a general lack of enforcement,

3:44:58are seemingly being accepted and normalized,

3:45:01sitting for just 10 minutes at almost any busy intersection

3:45:05or near a high school.

3:45:07On a sunny Sunday afternoon or one summer evening,

3:45:11one will be exposed to multiple noisy vehicles

3:45:15whose drivers are breaking the law

3:45:17and having their fun at our expense.

3:45:21One of our group members recently wrote

3:45:28one of these in my time, oh no.

3:45:31He's still live about three minutes.

3:45:34Okay, one of our group members recently wrote,

3:45:39the disregard these drivers have for the places we live

3:45:42is sadly astounding.

3:45:44When summer comes around,

3:45:46bending time outdoors and in one's yard

3:45:48should be enjoyable and not a stress-inducing activity.

3:45:52Which should have to come.

3:45:54Noise cameras are a tool that many cities around the world

3:45:58are piloting to deal with this growing public health issue.

3:46:02The technology includes microphones,

3:46:04calibrated to start recording at a certain noise level.

3:46:08The microphones can trigger a camera

3:46:12that snaps an image of the enemy vehicle

3:46:14whose owner is subsequently detected and signed.

3:46:17I believe he has been successfully deployed

3:46:20in New York City where fines are $1,000

3:46:23for first-time offenders and increased by 1,000

3:46:26for each subsequent offense.

3:46:29There's a growing body of evidence that demonstrates

3:46:32that this technology can support public health policy,

3:46:36free up the police and pave the way for safer, quieter streets

3:46:40as well as stimulate further important research

3:46:43on urban noise.

3:46:44An alternative to noise cameras is decreasing

3:46:47the police budget in order to hire more officers

3:46:50in the traffic division,

3:46:51which by all accounts is a very short staff.

3:46:54But most of us however, don't support the increase

3:46:58in the police budget quite the opposite in fact.

3:47:02As part of the role of dealing with this growing problem,

3:47:04we ask the city to consider the following,

3:47:07forming a noise committee to conduct a yearly analysis

3:47:11of the various offenders

3:47:13and explore the challenges around this regime.

3:47:16Launching a public education campaign

3:47:18about the health effects of excessive noise

3:47:20with the focus on noisy vehicles and enforcement.

3:47:24Research and noise camera technology

3:47:26and taking the required steps to deploy a pilot program.

3:47:30This will likely require amending existing bylaws

3:47:34to specify the safe, flexible level and testing conditions.

3:47:39And finally exploring raising fines

3:47:41that as a sufficient deterrent.

3:47:44However, research clearly shows that the certainty

3:47:47of being caught is a vast and more powerful deterrent

3:47:50and punishment.

3:47:51This is again where noise cameras can help.

3:47:55As our city grows and as we intensify development

3:47:58along busy corridors,

3:48:00as the numbers of cars, trucks and motorcycles

3:48:03on our roads increase and as they get bigger and louder,

3:48:06the problem of noise pollution and aggressive driving

3:48:09will only increase.

3:48:12To protect residents and ensure safe, respectful

3:48:15and pleasant city streets for everyone,

3:48:17I hope city council will agree to take action now

3:48:20and bring our noise bylaw forward for review this year

3:48:24and every year.

3:48:26Thank you so much for your time.

3:48:28Okay, thank you, Donna, for your delegation.

3:48:31I just want to look to members of council

3:48:33if there's any questions.

3:48:37Oh, Councillor Awerke.

3:48:39Thank you, Church.

3:48:40Through you to staff.

3:48:45Oh, sorry, not to the delegation.

3:48:46No, my apologies.

3:48:47Thank you very much.

3:48:49Okay, seeing that there's no questions,

3:48:51thank you for your delegation.

3:48:53We've also received your correspondence as well

3:48:55and we'll make sure that members of council

3:48:57give that a read.

3:48:59Besides that, hope you have a good day.

3:49:03Thank you, you can.

3:49:04Okay.

3:49:08Okay, seeing that there's no more delegations on this file,

3:49:13I will open it up to members of council

3:49:15for any questions or comments.

3:49:17Mayor Guthrie.

3:49:19Thanks, Chair.

3:49:20And I just only have this as a suggestion for flow,

3:49:23for us, we kind of have different topics.

3:49:27So maybe what we could do is I could immediately ask,

3:49:30it's been moved and seconded already,

3:49:33maybe I could immediately ask for them all to be separated

3:49:35and then Chair, if it's up to you obviously,

3:49:37but maybe we could just stick on one topic,

3:49:40take the vote, go to the next topic, take the vote.

3:49:42And then that way we just kind of go with the flow on that,

3:49:46if that's all right with you.

3:49:48Yeah, I actually would prefer that.

3:49:49So we can be a little more focused.

3:49:51So we have four items here.

3:49:52So if we can get that separated,

3:49:54I think that would be appreciated.

3:49:57I can look to clerics for that.

3:50:01Councillor Orr.

3:50:05Thank you, Councillor Chew.

3:50:06So just while we're splitting that out,

3:50:07the first one is about staff reporting back

3:50:10on bylaw reviews recommended to be removed

3:50:12from the work plan to free up resources.

3:50:14I just have a question for staff.

3:50:15Two questions actually through you, Chair Chew.

3:50:18How do we prioritize our bylaw reviews, right?

3:50:22So when people call and they say,

3:50:25oh, can I have traffic calming on my street?

3:50:28We have hard data and thresholds and we have a sense,

3:50:32is it a problem affecting thousands of people,

3:50:36a couple of people?

3:50:37And until we have really a better 311 system, I think,

3:50:42we don't have that fine degree of detail.

3:50:45So I can't tell from these motions

3:50:50whether these are priorities or not.

3:50:52And I'd like to understand how we prioritize

3:50:54and what these would displace.

3:51:00Through the chair to Councillor Orr-Rourke,

3:51:03a number of these reviews have either been directed

3:51:05by council through past meetings

3:51:08or have been identified staff as being needed

3:51:12to be amended as administrative in nature.

3:51:15For example, the business licensing bylaw

3:51:18was in effect since 2009.

3:51:20There's been changes in technology

3:51:23and ability to do some of the work

3:51:26and that bylaw needs to be updated.

3:51:28So it's on that list.

3:51:29So the way that we prioritize it is

3:51:31we try to find out the most effective means

3:51:34as to move it forward.

3:51:36And we always are working on one bylaw

3:51:38that is usually longer in nature and one that is shorter.

3:51:42For example, short term rentals,

3:51:45which was directed by council to do.

3:51:47That was a longer review that we conducted.

3:51:50At the same time, we conducted a smaller one.

3:51:53So it's prioritized based on what council's asked for

3:51:58and some of the efficiencies that can be created.

3:52:04Through you, Chair Chew, to Mr. Godfrey.

3:52:08So some, I'm guessing are directed by council.

3:52:11Others are things that just have been badly out of date

3:52:15or something has shifted.

3:52:16But when a recommendation comes from council,

3:52:19do we have a mechanism to quantify

3:52:21just how, why would these proposals leapfrog others?

3:52:28Is what I'm trying to understand.

3:52:29Maybe there's 10,000 people who are concerned.

3:52:32I'm just trying to understand how do we,

3:52:35as a board of governors, decide on priorities

3:52:39in the absence of that data and do you have that data?

3:52:43Through the chair to council,

3:52:44I'll work usually when there's a direction for council

3:52:47to look at a bylaw or look at a topic

3:52:50we often report on the number of calls

3:52:52that we received, some past history, you know, and that.

3:52:57So that's how the decision is made.

3:53:00All volumes and other information.

3:53:03Thank you.

3:53:04And then through you, Chair Chew, two more.

3:53:07One is we just approved a strat plan.

3:53:11And I'm wondering how these align

3:53:12with the top level priorities of the strat plan

3:53:16and how you align your work to move the strat plan forward.

3:53:22Through you, Chair to council,

3:53:24I'll work city building deals with a lot of safe

3:53:29and vibrant community and these bylaw reviews reflect

3:53:33into that and we prioritize that work plans based on that.

3:53:38And last question I have just on them generally,

3:53:43councillor Goller, the motions are very specific

3:53:46and sort of directive.

3:53:47They're not sort of, can we explore smokeless recreation?

3:53:50It says allow it.

3:53:52Number four says ban the use of sale and fireworks.

3:53:57Are you providing direction to staff

3:53:58on what the outcome of their research should be?

3:54:01Because I can't support that without really information

3:54:05on whether that's the best solution.

3:54:08Before councillor Goller speaks,

3:54:10I just want to clarify as well that in the motion

3:54:13that says report back.

3:54:15So I think there is that intention there.

3:54:18If councillor Goller would like to speak to that too.

3:54:21Thank you and through you, Chair to councillor O'Rourke.

3:54:24So the first thing that I'm looking to do today

3:54:27is get a sense from council

3:54:29if we want to actually direct staff to look at these.

3:54:33I think depending on the bylaw,

3:54:37I would just want it to make it clear what the issues are

3:54:40that my constituents are bringing forward.

3:54:43And all of these are to be brought back in October

3:54:48of this year as part of the multi-year budget.

3:54:51And at that time, we would actually be given direction

3:54:53for those bylaws to be actioned.

3:54:56So we have a runway of how long would it take,

3:54:59a runway between now and October

3:55:01for staff to tell us how long it would take

3:55:03and whether there is room in their work plan to look at these

3:55:08and what would need to come off for them to do it.

3:55:11I think between now and then we can work around the wording,

3:55:17whether it is to allow some fireworks,

3:55:20but not allow others.

3:55:22My intention was to get this on the floor,

3:55:25be clear about what it is that the world was looking,

3:55:29but I am not necessarily tied to the particular wording.

3:55:33At this point, I would like to check with my council colleagues

3:55:37to see if there's an appetite to even direct staff

3:55:40to look at these things.

3:55:42I brought them forward because they are concerned

3:55:44that my constituents have been asking me

3:55:45to work on, so I know that there are concerns

3:55:48that many members of our community feel strongly about.

3:55:52But to your point, I'm not tied to the particular wording.

3:55:56And that's something that between now, perhaps,

3:55:58and the end of the month, we can have a conversation

3:56:00and then modify these as need be.

3:56:04So through Chair Chew to Councillor Goller,

3:56:08I'm actually wondering, because we do want to deal

3:56:11with this stuff in committee,

3:56:13whether you would consider modifying the language

3:56:16because those three, so the one is explore.

3:56:21Number two talks about can you explore

3:56:23vehicle noise cameras and Guelph.

3:56:25That's fine.

3:56:26The other one says allow the contained smokeless

3:56:27recreational wood burning fires.

3:56:29And the other one says ban the use and sale of fireworks.

3:56:32So to me, those are not saying to staff,

3:56:35can you go and take a look?

3:56:37And then we have a public engagement.

3:56:38It's outlining what the outcome will be

3:56:42without any consultation, without any sort of...

3:56:45So for me, those two are much too directive.

3:56:47And for me, I need to answer clause one,

3:56:52because we've had people who are operating a tow truck

3:56:54in front of somebody's house as a business

3:56:56and we have no bylaw to address that.

3:56:58We've got cameras that are pointing in neighbors' homes.

3:57:01So we all have complaints from constituents

3:57:05about different things.

3:57:07So personally, I need number one in order to know

3:57:12what could be displaced to do those.

3:57:14And I'm not sure we also have a fulsome list

3:57:16of what some other potential bylaws might be.

3:57:18So I'm a bit of a loss,

3:57:20but I'm just wondering if you would consider

3:57:22modifying the language so that

3:57:25it's not a foregone conclusion in the motion.

3:57:27Absolutely.

3:57:28Do you have any suggestions, councillor?

3:57:31Or what would make you feel comfortable

3:57:33with these motions?

3:57:38Yeah, I mean, I think it's...

3:57:39Sorry, chair two.

3:57:41So I think it's something along the lines of,

3:57:44that staff review the backyard fire bylaw.

3:57:51I don't even know what the words are,

3:57:54to explore the use of contained

3:57:57smokeless recreational wood burning fires.

3:57:59Right?

3:58:00And that actually could be done pretty quickly in a meeting.

3:58:02If the fire chief says, yeah, that's great.

3:58:04And we can just add this one clause.

3:58:06So I don't know what the scope of them are.

3:58:08And similarly, you could say that staff report,

3:58:11staff report back on proposed timelines

3:58:14in order to explore the bylaw surrounding

3:58:17use and sale of fireworks.

3:58:20I don't even know that we're allowed to ban

3:58:22the sale of fireworks because it's a legal product

3:58:25in the city.

3:58:26So I don't know what I don't know about this at this point.

3:58:32Okay.

3:58:33I'm just gonna go to Mayor Guthrie

3:58:35and then councillor Allt.

3:58:36We can continue this discussion,

3:58:38but I do think we should kind of separate

3:58:40the discussion one item by one item.

3:58:42I don't think the first clause

3:58:44should be that controversial.

3:58:45So I also get staff to speak to this,

3:58:48but how about Mayor Guthrie go first

3:58:50and then councillor Allt.

3:58:53Thanks chair and through you.

3:58:56So my question, my question is going to be

3:59:00a little bit of a repeat,

3:59:01but just a little bit firmer than my colleague

3:59:03to my right here.

3:59:05I don't mind first of all reviewing the three

3:59:10that you proposed.

3:59:10Okay.

3:59:11So just to be on,

3:59:12but there could be five things or 10 things

3:59:16or 11 things or only even one,

3:59:19but I need you to tell me and council

3:59:24what's happening with number one

3:59:27because everything flow,

3:59:29everything is dependent on number one.

3:59:32If you come back and say that we're not removing anything

3:59:35from the work plan

3:59:36or we don't suggest that we remove anything

3:59:38from the work plan,

3:59:39then it's a mute point,

3:59:41whether we have one thing or 10 things or three things.

3:59:44That's where I'm just a little bit held up.

3:59:47So what I'm trying to understand is like,

3:59:50can you answer number one now?

3:59:55Can you answer that one for us now?

3:59:56Like what would you suggest that we remove

3:59:58from the work plan for you to fill in these other three?

4:00:03Through you chair and America three,

4:00:05there are some items on here

4:00:07that we can talk about.

4:00:09And there's some items that we could possibly bring back

4:00:13and say back in October,

4:00:14these are why we believe they should come off the list

4:00:17and give you the reasons why.

4:00:19For example, I'll pull in exotic dancers.

4:00:23That was an issue years and years ago,

4:00:26councils directed staff to defer the licensing.

4:00:34I know what that means.

4:00:36All right, thank you.

4:00:38So in other words,

4:00:39another words not holding you to it through you chair,

4:00:43there is some moveability here on the list,

4:00:49on your work plan to potentially fit in some of the things

4:00:52that council are always bringing forward.

4:00:54And you would identify that when you come back.

4:00:57Through the chair of the council,

4:00:58to make her go through that is correct.

4:00:59All right, perfect.

4:01:00That's good.

4:01:01That settles that part.

4:01:02Okay, that's great.

4:01:03Okay, so then I would suggest then to you chair that,

4:01:09yeah, I mean, I'm ready to call the vote on number one.

4:01:12I mean, if now that we got that settled in my view,

4:01:16everything goes from there,

4:01:17then we can attack number two and three and four from there.

4:01:20Councillor, all did you want to speak to that at all?

4:01:22Or are you?

4:01:23No, I think that my colleagues have probably expressed

4:01:26my concerns.

4:01:27The key to me is that there should be no foregone

4:01:30conclusions on any of these.

4:01:32And the issue of work plan and what is practical are my issues.

4:01:38Okay, and those on screen, you guys are good as well?

4:01:42Okay, perfect.

4:01:43Let's call the vote on number one,

4:01:45that staff report back by October 2023

4:01:48on any bylaw reviews that are recommended

4:01:51to be removed from the work plan

4:01:52in order to free up resources.

4:01:55And let's change things up and be a little fun here.

4:01:58All those approve, raise your hand.

4:02:04All right, perfect.

4:02:06Number one's passed.

4:02:08Now let's go on to number two

4:02:10and have some discussion on that.

4:02:13You gotta change things up, right?

4:02:15We've been here for a couple hours now, right?

4:02:18All right, so let's have a discussion on number two,

4:02:21that staff report back by October 2023

4:02:23on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:02:26in order to add in an update to noise bylaw

4:02:29to explore the use of vehicle noise cameras in Guelph.

4:02:33So, okay, Councillor Allt.

4:02:36Thank you very much.

4:02:37I'll speak to this because it did come before

4:02:40Mayor Guthrie and me and the Police Services Board.

4:02:44And we had a, I think a very effective debate on this

4:02:49as to whether this was properly in front of police

4:02:51or whether this should be considered to be

4:02:53a function of the city and bylaw.

4:02:56Noise is clearly a problem for some people

4:03:00in some neighborhoods within the community.

4:03:02The issue here that I think I think I'm speaking

4:03:05similarly to Mayor Guthrie is,

4:03:07is this through bylaw,

4:03:10through establishing a budget for noise cameras

4:03:13and the potential to enforce this something

4:03:16that the city should consider.

4:03:19So, I'm glad that Councillor Goller brought it here.

4:03:22But again, for me, it's review, explore,

4:03:25and also as part of the exploration

4:03:27to determine what kind of a budget do we need

4:03:29and how practical is this?

4:03:33Thank you.

4:03:34I'll just point out as well,

4:03:35like I like the language that says explore.

4:03:39So we're very clear to staff on what the intention is.

4:03:42In my opinion, if we have had exotic dancers

4:03:45on the list for many years now,

4:03:47I don't see how this went to be an issue as well.

4:03:51However, we just need to be conscious

4:03:53of the time constraints as well

4:03:55that we're dictating to staff as well.

4:03:57So if there's some latitude as well to staff,

4:04:01then this shouldn't be that big of a problem in my opinion.

4:04:05But I'll let my colleague Councillor O'Rourke

4:04:07who has some comments speak.

4:04:11Thank you.

4:04:12Through you, Councillor Chew to staff,

4:04:13just because we've had two comments

4:04:14about the exotic dancers, through you to staff,

4:04:18is the reason we want to look at that

4:04:20because it's a factor in sex trafficking.

4:04:25Through you, Chair, to Councillor O'Rourke,

4:04:28it was a request years and years ago by Council

4:04:31to look at that in a couple of years

4:04:33that has been deferred by Council as well.

4:04:35So I think the information is we put it forward,

4:04:40provide all the facts as to why it was on the list

4:04:42to begin with, if there's been any changes

4:04:45and Council can make the decision.

4:04:48So through you, Chair Chew,

4:04:50before we remove that from the list,

4:04:53will you be able to tell us whether that's still

4:04:55a consideration in terms of sex trafficking?

4:04:57Cause like it's kind of funny, but it's really not.

4:05:00Through you, Chair, to Councillor O'Rourke,

4:05:02as part of the review is when we report back

4:05:04in October 23rd, or October 2023,

4:05:07we would give all the reviews that are on the list,

4:05:10why they were there and if staff feel

4:05:14that they still need to be reviewed

4:05:16and the reasons why or why not.

4:05:18Thank you.

4:05:19And through you, Chair Chew, question to Mr. Godfrey.

4:05:25Are there other things in your opinion

4:05:27that need to be added to the noise by-law?

4:05:29I'm thinking of refrigerated trucks running all night

4:05:32and those types of things.

4:05:33So is the motion too restrictive

4:05:36in terms of only looking at vehicle noise cameras?

4:05:40Do you want a broader motion to allow you to include

4:05:44other things that perhaps are also happening

4:05:47at the same time?

4:05:49Through you, the Chair, to Councillor O'Rourke,

4:05:51as you can see in the report,

4:05:52there is a request for staff to review

4:05:54the noise by-law now for to reevaluate the map.

4:05:59That's attached to it where other and non-use are.

4:06:01So staff would rather have more general.

4:06:07Then Chair Chew, I would propose an amendment

4:06:11that I actually don't have,

4:06:12I have an email with an old version,

4:06:14but I don't have the new version.

4:06:15Do I have the new version of the motion?

4:06:18Just before we go to the possible amendment,

4:06:21I just want to clarify to our general manager.

4:06:24So you are currently looking at noise complaints overall

4:06:29as it stands, correct?

4:06:33To you, Mr. Chair, the noise by-law review

4:06:37with respect to mapping is scheduled for 2025.

4:06:41Okay, do you have a seconder for your amendment,

4:06:44Councillor O'Rourke?

4:06:46Sorry, Chair Chew, I'm just typing it out now, actually.

4:06:50Okay, I'll go Councillor Goller to add a comment.

4:06:55Thank you, and through you, Chair Chew.

4:06:57And Councillor O'Rourke, I did just send the email

4:06:59with the updated wording.

4:07:02I just wanted to add that this motion

4:07:06is responding to new technology

4:07:09that has been available recently,

4:07:11which is much like a radar camera

4:07:15or a stop red light camera.

4:07:17There are now vehicle noise cameras

4:07:21that have been used by many jurisdictions,

4:07:25by a few jurisdictions in the world,

4:07:26like the city of Paris, New York, Edmonton,

4:07:32to track the loudness of vehicles.

4:07:35So we do have other technology to be able to look at

4:07:40the noise of say an air conditioner unit

4:07:43or the noise caused by a car that is on a driveway.

4:07:47But this is the first time that we would be talking about

4:07:51something that is tracking

4:07:52the loudness of vehicles on the road.

4:07:54And this is primarily a concern for my constituents

4:07:58who live on the main roads, like Victoria Road, Aramosa,

4:08:02those roads that are hilly and cars

4:08:06are often going by quite loudly.

4:08:10Just that is my comment.

4:08:11And that is why this is particularly prescriptive.

4:08:15So as staff said,

4:08:17they're already looking at the noise control by-law.

4:08:19This we just make sure that when they do that,

4:08:21they're also looking at how

4:08:25road vehicle cameras could be used

4:08:29or could not be used in the city of Guelph.

4:08:32Okay, I'm just gonna go to our CAO's, Stuart.

4:08:35Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:08:37Just to maybe perhaps help, hopefully help.

4:08:40I think what, if you did two, three, four,

4:08:44and then we did one, what staff are going to review

4:08:46is in October, we will report back.

4:08:49Number two will take us 170 hours, $2 million,

4:08:55and then a temporary thing becomes a permanent thing,

4:08:57and it's a capital budget of 500,000.

4:09:01Making that big leap of faith

4:09:02that just because it was done on Alberta,

4:09:04it can actually be done in Ontario.

4:09:06We might get to that very conclusion.

4:09:08It's not legitimate in Ontario.

4:09:10Why would we have to spend any time on that?

4:09:12And then I think what Mr. Godfrey or GM Godfrey will do,

4:09:16he then has got to then try to equate the existing by-laws

4:09:20that are on our books to be reviewed.

4:09:22Our bandwidth is we cannot do everything all of the time.

4:09:26So if it takes 170 hours, what has to come out?

4:09:29And I think, Councillor O'Rourke,

4:09:31that's what you're getting at,

4:09:32and Mayor Godfrey, with your questions.

4:09:35What would come out?

4:09:36And is it just an exchange of hours?

4:09:38Which clearly it's not,

4:09:39because these things were put in place

4:09:40for some purpose at some point.

4:09:42And that has to be clear.

4:09:44So I think we've got to bring this back to you

4:09:46on all of these in that explore kind of way,

4:09:49but only explore to tell you, can we proceed?

4:09:52We can't answer tonight,

4:09:54as that technology actually has it made its way

4:09:56from France and the States to here.

4:09:58It feels like it has, and two big cities,

4:10:01like in Canada, I think, in this particular one.

4:10:04Edmonton in Toronto,

4:10:05is there something specific in the Toronto Act

4:10:07that's allowed it to take place in Ontario?

4:10:09I don't know, but that would have to be part

4:10:11of the discussion in October.

4:10:13So I think you can't solve everything that's in here tonight

4:10:16because we're not exactly sure what's really been asked.

4:10:20We have to go away and explore and bring that back to you.

4:10:23But with a view that if this comes back to you,

4:10:26you've got to then vote on it at some point to say,

4:10:28yay or nay, and if you say nay, fair enough.

4:10:31But if you say yay, it'll be attached to,

4:10:33but something has to come out.

4:10:35These things were priorities of previous councils.

4:10:38So it might not be a priority today,

4:10:41but we're gonna have to try to answer that for you as well.

4:10:43So I think this will be a complicated discussion in October,

4:10:47let alone this evening.

4:10:48If this evening is really about just guiding us a little bit,

4:10:52great, but you can't get to,

4:10:54I'm with the councillor Hark here.

4:10:57There isn't a fire chief around us

4:10:59that's really gonna jump in and say,

4:11:00let's get into some of this backyard burning

4:11:03without some detail on it.

4:11:04Others do it, but there's a lot of detail on why others do it,

4:11:08and guff might not replicate why others do it.

4:11:11So all I'm trying to say is you might force your way

4:11:13through this this evening,

4:11:14if the words explore are in there,

4:11:16with a realisation you are gonna have to dig deep

4:11:19and dig into this when it comes back in October.

4:11:22Tonight might be the night to spend a number of hours on it.

4:11:25It might just be if you're interested, yes.

4:11:27If you're not, say that now.

4:11:28There's no point in having staff go away and chase this

4:11:31if you really aren't interested.

4:11:33And that's difficult for you to answer

4:11:35because we haven't got answers for you.

4:11:37So you're all stuck in that sort of cat 22,

4:11:39but I think tonight is, all right, go away,

4:11:42but realise what we're coming back with.

4:11:45We do not have enough staff that's in bylaw,

4:11:47let alone traffic and all the other places.

4:11:50You know, that camera piece might be interesting,

4:11:53but we will hire more traffic staff

4:11:55to do the work behind the scenes on a permanent basis.

4:11:58Perhaps when you see the bill,

4:11:59you might not be for the number of complaints

4:12:02that are attached to it.

4:12:03So I'm just, I'm trying to help

4:12:05so that you're not into this for about two hours this evening.

4:12:08You might get there a little sooner

4:12:10with that general generalities that I put on the table,

4:12:14if that's helpful.

4:12:14If not, continue on if I've just muddied the waters.

4:12:18Thank you, Mr. Chair.

4:12:19Yeah, just some quick comments.

4:12:22Is it possible that Councillor Goller,

4:12:24you explore October 2023 and maybe perhaps remove that?

4:12:31Yes.

4:12:32Through you, Chair Chew,

4:12:33this was based on the recommendation from staff

4:12:35to put in that timeline so that we make this decision

4:12:38and lock and step with the multi-year budget.

4:12:41So if there is an ask on bylaw says,

4:12:43we can do this, we need two more bylaw review officers,

4:12:47and then they would add that to the budget.

4:12:48So then if we push this off, then it throws the budget off.

4:12:53Okay, Councillor Allt.

4:12:55I think it's important for us to put this forward right now.

4:12:57There are citizens who have spoken quite passionately

4:13:03about this particular issue.

4:13:05And I think that CAO Stewart has outlined

4:13:09what the challenges might be quite well.

4:13:12I think we owe it to the community to come back

4:13:16with something to say whether this is something

4:13:19that is reasonable or something

4:13:20that is just beyond our capacity.

4:13:23And I hope it doesn't take 170 hours,

4:13:26but if it does, it might be 170 well spent

4:13:29so the community understands where we're coming from.

4:13:32I just have a couple of questions

4:13:34my colleagues who ever wants to jump in.

4:13:37Would you guys be okay if hypothetically

4:13:41we had some of this information tied into an information report

4:13:44instead of it coming back to council on October 2023?

4:13:49Because there's still a heavy research component to this

4:13:52that would take some staff capacity, right?

4:13:55So Councillor Goller.

4:13:57Through you chair.

4:13:58So for clarity, we're not asking

4:14:00that the bylaws actually be developed by October.

4:14:03We're just asking how many staff hours will it take?

4:14:06And then in October, we can make a decision

4:14:08if we actually want to invest that staff resources

4:14:12to develop these.

4:14:13So that is the exploration.

4:14:15So this is the pre-work for us to know

4:14:18how much work it would be to develop each of these bylaws.

4:14:21And at this point, if say there is no appetite

4:14:25to address the issue of loud vehicles,

4:14:28council votes it down

4:14:29and then we're not asking staff to do any work.

4:14:31But I personally feel strongly that

4:14:35I've heard from enough constituents

4:14:36that live on main roads

4:14:37that this is a significant issue for them

4:14:39that we should at least look and see

4:14:42what it would take to put these laws in the box.

4:14:45Okay. Does our CAO have any final remarks

4:14:49before I go to the amendment?

4:14:51So through you, Mr. Chair.

4:14:52I mean, information reports are a way to bring things to you

4:14:55but I would suggest that we're gonna look for direction

4:14:58from you as a board in October.

4:15:01We cannot just go ahead and start work

4:15:03and take things off without your permission.

4:15:06These are in here for a reason.

4:15:08And so if the existence schedule that staff gave to you,

4:15:11that has to be amended to put something new in

4:15:14or on top of it, yes, hire two more staff.

4:15:18You know, I've sort of seen a bit of a draft

4:15:21on this budget that's coming.

4:15:23You know, maybe you'll be interested in two more staff here

4:15:25but maybe you'll be interested in staff

4:15:28in other areas like housing priorities and things like that.

4:15:30So you've got some decisions coming.

4:15:33So I wouldn't make them tonight

4:15:35but make the assumption we can report back

4:15:37and we need your blessing on direction.

4:15:39So we need to get that in front of you

4:15:41so that you can say yay or nay as a board of governors.

4:15:45And it probably seems to me it should come back

4:15:48as a report to you directly

4:15:49because that's going to be the easiest way

4:15:50for Mr. Godfrey and others to put some detail to this.

4:15:55And you're gonna have, look at the questions you have tonight.

4:15:58Imagine when we give you all kinds of details.

4:16:01It feels like it'll be a long evening in October

4:16:03for you on this and I think you need it

4:16:05in front of you at a committee

4:16:06so that you can spend the time on it if you so desire.

4:16:10But we need to hear from you directly, do you want to?

4:16:13And if you don't, that's easy.

4:16:15If you don't now, again, I'll repeat that.

4:16:16Don't direct us to go do this research.

4:16:19But if you want some research

4:16:20so you can make the determination in October,

4:16:22that's what we're committing to Mr. Chairman tonight.

4:16:26And then we have to bring it back to you

4:16:27with your eyes wide open on a decision.

4:16:30Okay, let's go to Councillor Work with the amendment.

4:16:32Do you have a seconder?

4:16:36Mayor Guthrie says he'll second.

4:16:38Okay, motion's on the floor.

4:16:43Claire, do you want to put this on screen as well?

4:16:45And we said we're reading them.

4:16:49Sorry, I don't have a strike through function

4:16:50on my computer for some reason.

4:16:53So the new motion is that staff report back

4:16:55by October, 2023 on potential timelines

4:16:59for changes to the work plan in order to explore

4:17:01and update the noise by-law,

4:17:03including potential inclusion

4:17:05of the use of vehicle noise cameras and Guelph

4:17:07and other issues related to the noise by-law.

4:17:10Councillor, sorry, Mayor Guthrie's seconded.

4:17:16All right, does anyone have any comments on this?

4:17:22I do want to make a quick comment.

4:17:24For me, and I think a lot of us here,

4:17:27we get complaints about noise all the time.

4:17:30And I think there's an opportunity here

4:17:32to kind of address the tenor of how we're going

4:17:35about this exploration.

4:17:36And I'm not too sure personally

4:17:38that the noise cameras is the only avenue

4:17:42in which we can approach this issue.

4:17:44However, to some of my colleagues' points,

4:17:49it is an option that is worth exploring,

4:17:52but to our CAO's point,

4:17:54we also need to be focused as well

4:17:57in how we commit staff hours to research and development.

4:18:01So I think I'm happy to support

4:18:05what Councillor Orwork has put forward.

4:18:08And I guess if there's no comment,

4:18:10I guess we can just call a vote on this.

4:18:13Any opposed?

4:18:17Okay, this motion is carried.

4:18:22Then, sorry, the amendment is carried.

4:18:26And I guess we can call a vote now

4:18:29if we can on the actual motion here.

4:18:33As amended.

4:18:36There's so many nuances to this, eh?

4:18:38All right, any opposed?

4:18:43Not okay, that's carried.

4:18:45Perfect.

4:18:47So, okay, let's go to number three now.

4:18:50And we'll have clerks put that on the screen again,

4:18:54and I'll just read it out.

4:18:56That staff report back by October 2023

4:18:58on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:19:01in order to add in the creation of a bylaw

4:19:04that allows contained smokeless recreational wood

4:19:07burning fires.

4:19:09Councillor Goller, do you want to speak to this as well?

4:19:13Thank you and through you, Chair Orwork.

4:19:14Based on feedback from, Chair, sorry, sorry.

4:19:18I was through you, Chair Chew.

4:19:20Based on the comments from Councillor Orwork about this,

4:19:25I was wondering if Council would feel better

4:19:28if instead of using the word of add,

4:19:31we changed that for explore.

4:19:33If that would make us so that we explore the creation

4:19:38of these bylaws rather than the prescriptive add,

4:19:41it's still clear on what the goal is,

4:19:44but it makes it more flexible.

4:19:47And okay, so.

4:19:49Councillor Orwork, do you have any comments to that?

4:19:53Nope, because Councillor Goller just amended his own motion

4:19:56and Marigot three just seconded.

4:19:58I have a question.

4:19:59Okay, Councillor Orwork.

4:20:02Through you, Chair Chew, to your public services,

4:20:05your public services tonight.

4:20:07Okay, Mr. Godfrey, do we know what the chief of,

4:20:10what the fire chief's position is on this?

4:20:12Does the fire chief already have an established position?

4:20:17Through you, Chair, to Councillor Orwork.

4:20:19I had not spoken to him about this matter.

4:20:21Obviously he's new and when he arrives,

4:20:24it'll be part of the conversation we have

4:20:26and report back in October, 2023.

4:20:29Okay.

4:20:31Does this also need to be broader?

4:20:36Through you, Chair, to Councillor Orwork,

4:20:38if you wish to, it can be just broader

4:20:41and outside burning, including smokeless fires.

4:20:44Back outside burning.

4:20:46Councillor Goller, would you consider that?

4:20:48Okay.

4:20:50Do I need to type that out?

4:20:53So Mr. Godfrey, could you repeat that please?

4:20:56It allows, contains smokeless recreation,

4:20:59wood burning fires and outside burning.

4:21:04Through you, Chair, to Councillor Orwork,

4:21:05outside burning in general, I guess.

4:21:07Just outside burning.

4:21:08Okay, coming up, thanks.

4:21:10Okay.

4:21:11Mayor Guthrie followed by Councillor Allt.

4:21:15Yes, through you, Chair.

4:21:16I just have a question.

4:21:17What's, I don't understand what is,

4:21:19what is outside burning?

4:21:22I just, we keep adding and adding and adding

4:21:25and it just, I'm getting confused.

4:21:28So through the chair to the mayor and again,

4:21:31we're trying to do this live with you as well.

4:21:33So this table is a bit of an issue for me here

4:21:36with the GM Godfrey.

4:21:39We've just gone through issues with wildfires

4:21:41and smokes in this part of the province.

4:21:42I can't imagine that a fire chief is going to come in,

4:21:45let alone an existing CEO and tell you,

4:21:47that makes a lot of sense,

4:21:48put more smoke into the air.

4:21:50We've got some environmental policies as well.

4:21:53So it's more than just a fire issue.

4:21:56It's connected to, because a lot of the rural communities

4:21:59have a fire permit that allows you to burn

4:22:02in the rural areas, just because it's significant.

4:22:05It's usually about 150 meters away from any structures.

4:22:08So again, think about who we are,

4:22:10not who we were, but who we are.

4:22:12Do we have that kind of ability to do open burn permits?

4:22:17Other municipalities do it just because of the rural nature

4:22:19of the other municipalities.

4:22:21So if you expand it, I can't,

4:22:23I just think that it opens the door to a lot more work

4:22:27that you're likely going to see no on.

4:22:29The smokeless piece sort of felt like

4:22:31maybe that's something that's possible.

4:22:34And I'll look to Doug if he wants to add anything else,

4:22:36but wood burn and permits are usually in the rural communities

4:22:40or they're in an urban setting

4:22:42that's got a large urban or rural component to it.

4:22:47We don't seem to have that here.

4:22:48So to expand it, I'm not sure that's good wise

4:22:51of sort of your directional time to us.

4:22:56So through you, Chair, is that the answer

4:23:02to where my confusion was?

4:23:03Because I thought we were walking in today

4:23:05to talk about some backyard little fires.

4:23:08But then I heard an outdoor burning.

4:23:10I'm like, well, what does that mean?

4:23:12Is that where you were going?

4:23:14I was confused.

4:23:15Mr. Chair, the councillor, as to Mayor Guthrie,

4:23:17whenever my small, not backyard burning as bush

4:23:24and everything like that,

4:23:25like we're talking about this outside burning.

4:23:28However, the smokeless fires still may produce

4:23:34flame, may still produce that.

4:23:38And that's why I was saying open it up.

4:23:39It wasn't intended to say we want to open up water,

4:23:42just saying that smokeless fire may still generate heat

4:23:46and safety risks that we need to explore.

4:23:51Okay, so clip for clarity then through you, Chair.

4:23:55I need to know whether or not your line of questioning

4:23:58and where you're going with councillor Oror

4:23:59is required to have you satisfied to go away.

4:24:03Do you need that extra verbiage of and outdoor burning

4:24:07added to this motion for review?

4:24:09Or were you comfortable with just the little tiny backyard,

4:24:13little smokeless things that might be okay?

4:24:15Through you, Chair, the councillor Guthrie

4:24:17don't need the addition.

4:24:18Okay, all right, thank you.

4:24:20I'm sorry, everybody.

4:24:20I just really needed that.

4:24:21Mayor Guthrie.

4:24:22Yeah, I don't care, whatever.

4:24:23Yeah, I assume that was kind of implied there.

4:24:26Okay, so, sorry if I cut the floor one more time then.

4:24:29I only have one more question.

4:24:32I'm absolutely willing to explore this

4:24:34because I've actually wanted to explore this

4:24:36for about 10, 12 years that have been here.

4:24:39But every single time I have brought this forward to staff,

4:24:44it has always come down to what does the chief say?

4:24:49And so I just wanna be on the record right now.

4:24:52If the fire chief, if our new one between now and October

4:24:56comes and says no, then I'm sorry, like that's the expert.

4:25:01That's our chief.

4:25:03And I'm gonna rely on that advice from the chief,

4:25:06especially fires and all that kind of stuff

4:25:08that's going on, even though I may wanna do it.

4:25:10Even though I may wanna do it,

4:25:11I'm gonna rely on the experts of the chief.

4:25:13So I would really request that,

4:25:14although I'm gonna vote for this

4:25:16because I think the review is a good idea,

4:25:18if between now and October,

4:25:22the chief says there's no way we're ever gonna do this,

4:25:26how does council feel about you just telling us

4:25:30prior to October, could you do an information report?

4:25:33Like I just don't know why we'd have to wait for October

4:25:35if in three weeks the new chief just says,

4:25:37I'm not even gonna go there.

4:25:39So through the chair to the mayor,

4:25:42you might get that in a lot of these instances.

4:25:44So, Mayor Guthrie, I completely agree with you.

4:25:48If our new chief arrives and just said, what is this?

4:25:51We can't do that, we shouldn't do that, there it is.

4:25:54If our transportation staff arrive and say,

4:25:57that product's not available in Ontario,

4:25:59you might get that from us too.

4:26:00So you might get some instant answers

4:26:02because you're asking us to explore it.

4:26:04We won't wait till October, if the answer's no,

4:26:07the answer's no and then we don't have to worry

4:26:09about the things that we have to take out.

4:26:11So you'll get a fairly strong no from us

4:26:13and then you'll have decisions to make at that point.

4:26:16Do you really want to create a liability issue

4:26:19around if the fire chief is telling you,

4:26:21and I think you're in a sensible place to say,

4:26:23let's listen to the experts,

4:26:25whether it's a fire chief or one of our professional

4:26:27engineers on the transportation side as well.

4:26:29Okay, and I just want to be very clear through you, chair.

4:26:32Like I actually do, I would love to see these reviewed.

4:26:35I honestly, I very much would like to see these reviewed.

4:26:38And so I just want to make sure that we're not,

4:26:41you know, stepping in something here

4:26:43that's going to be ending up worse.

4:26:45So I appreciate that those answers,

4:26:47I'll turn it back to you, chair.

4:26:51Yeah, just a quick comment.

4:26:52I think just to provide some context and clarity

4:26:55for the intent of this motion here.

4:26:59If you just go on Amazon or if you go on Google

4:27:02and search up smokeless recreational wood burning fires,

4:27:05most of these products are quite well contained.

4:27:08And I think there's a balancing act

4:27:10that we have to play here on council.

4:27:12Yes, we've had forest fires.

4:27:14Yes, we've seen what's happened out West,

4:27:16but at the same time we've seen our neighbors

4:27:18in Kitchener as well apply some creative measures

4:27:22in order to allow such a product to be available.

4:27:25I think there's a lot of safety

4:27:29that we have to look into.

4:27:30And I think our staff is always going to err

4:27:33on the side of caution always.

4:27:36But I think if we were just to explore this,

4:27:39it would show the community,

4:27:40hey, we're actually being a little creative here

4:27:43and we're not being too prescriptive

4:27:44just because wood burning fires in general

4:27:48are harmful to the environment.

4:27:51I'll also let my colleague, Councillor Goller,

4:27:54just say a few words that followed by Councillor Kloss

4:27:56and if you still have any comments.

4:27:59Okay, everyone has comments now.

4:28:00So we'll do the two first.

4:28:03Thank you, three, two.

4:28:05I would ask my councillor colleagues to support this.

4:28:09My main concern is that backyard fires happen in Guelph.

4:28:12They happen legally and they happen in any way

4:28:15that those residents put them on

4:28:18because there's no proper guidelines.

4:28:20You go to the city website and it says it's just not allowed.

4:28:22So many people just do it

4:28:24and they may not be doing it in a safe way.

4:28:26By having strict regulations saying you can do this

4:28:29that you're going to do anyways,

4:28:30but it has to be within these particular containers,

4:28:34this particular way to prevent the fire from expanding.

4:28:37I think it's safer for a community.

4:28:39I look at this as a harm reduction approach

4:28:42to allowing something that the community is doing.

4:28:46Thank you.

4:28:47Councillor Klosson.

4:28:48Yeah, I'll keep it very brief.

4:28:49And I think I echo everything that my colleague,

4:28:53Councillor Goller said,

4:28:54folks are already doing it

4:28:55and many constituents of mine have asked about it.

4:28:58So I think exploring it is great.

4:29:01And I mean, again, structure is everything,

4:29:03rule following great.

4:29:05And I think it's also important for the community

4:29:07to hear that we hear you, we see you,

4:29:10but let's be cautious.

4:29:14Councillor Allt.

4:29:15Thank you very much.

4:29:17Mayor Guthrie said a number of the things

4:29:19that I was going to say.

4:29:20The issue is exploring

4:29:22I struggled with smokeless and backyard fires as well.

4:29:26I thought that those are loaded terms,

4:29:28but true confession, I had a backyard fire last night.

4:29:33It was for my dinner.

4:29:34It was my charcoal that I lit for my barbecue.

4:29:38I also sometimes have a propane fire

4:29:41and I'm going to loan my propane fire pit

4:29:44to another Councillor

4:29:45so that Councillor can have a legal backyard fire.

4:29:49I think one of the things that we need to recognize

4:29:51is there are nuances in fires

4:29:54and I believe that will come back.

4:29:56The issue of exploring is very, very important.

4:30:00By the way, I should have invited you over for dinner last night.

4:30:02It was delicious, but I'll also tell you

4:30:05that while the air quality was bad,

4:30:07that charcoal barbecue did not get lit once

4:30:10because that's a huge issue for us right now.

4:30:13And we need to be aware that as we are exploring this,

4:30:16there are many residents in Ontario

4:30:18who don't even want to hear the words backyard fire.

4:30:25Councillor O'Rourke.

4:30:27Thanks, Church.

4:30:28I am trying to stay at the direction exploration level

4:30:34because the rules around what the Ontario Fire Code allows

4:30:39are on our website, which you can have a propane fuel

4:30:42or natural gas fuel appliance

4:30:43that simulate a campfire fireplace.

4:30:46The only thing I would remind council of

4:30:49is the lots are getting smaller and smaller

4:30:51as we increase the density

4:30:53and our bylaw always applies citywide.

4:30:55We don't have area specific bylaws.

4:30:59So we're gonna have a situation again

4:31:00where if you've got a great big backyard,

4:31:02which right now is happening,

4:31:03got a great big backyard and it doesn't bother the neighbors,

4:31:06there's no problem at all.

4:31:08But if you suddenly say we're gonna allow it across the city,

4:31:11you're gonna have people in townhomes

4:31:13having a campfire back there, which could be problematic.

4:31:17So that's my concern.

4:31:18There is a bit of an equity piece around this.

4:31:20It's the same question around,

4:31:22can you park your RV in your driveway?

4:31:25Well, if you have a huge double car garage

4:31:27and you've got a 60 foot frontage

4:31:29and you've got a huge setback, it doesn't bother anybody.

4:31:32You have a six foot driveway

4:31:34and you put a big RV in there, it bothers people.

4:31:37So we're regulating for the whole city

4:31:40and we need to be thinking about what it means

4:31:43as the lots get smaller and more dense

4:31:47and whether that risk increases.

4:31:49Because right now the people who are doing it,

4:31:51it's by complaint and it's really only,

4:31:56if somebody is concerned, they will call

4:31:58and there's different options.

4:31:59So I just wanna remind us that we are regulating

4:32:03for the whole city, it's not the couple of people

4:32:04who do it and it's not a problem.

4:32:08I just wanna ask staff as well.

4:32:09I mean, part of these considerations as well

4:32:12will be accounted for in the review

4:32:15if this is the direction that we provide, correct?

4:32:18So you Mr. Chair and again, I'll look to, yeah, I'm Godfrey.

4:32:23Look, respectfully, it'll be more than a Google search.

4:32:27You will get advice from us.

4:32:29Are you in compliance with a multitude of codes

4:32:31and as Councillor O'Rourke is alluding to,

4:32:33you have got to put your hat on for the entire city.

4:32:36So could we do it?

4:32:38We're gonna go through all that,

4:32:40but when we get to know you shouldn't do it,

4:32:41you're gonna hear it's because

4:32:43and it won't be because we don't like the color of the shirt

4:32:46that you wear in tonight.

4:32:46It'll be because the fire code says you shouldn't do it

4:32:49within X-ammonimeters to other structures

4:32:52because there is rules here that we have to comply with.

4:32:57We'll bring that to you.

4:32:58And yes, we see stores that sell all kinds of things

4:33:00where you could put it in your backyard

4:33:03and we might actually question why they're actually

4:33:04allowed to be sold, but that's not us.

4:33:06That's another level of government.

4:33:08But we have rules for a reason

4:33:10and it's usually not to annoy.

4:33:12And then I would just caution council

4:33:14as you get into this discussion tonight,

4:33:15just be aware of statements that you might make

4:33:18if you are now breaking some of these bylaws,

4:33:20just be aware of that so that you don't walk

4:33:22into some other issues yourselves

4:33:24with now we're aware of something.

4:33:26So again, it's reactionary these bylaws,

4:33:28but I think tonight keep that conversation up here.

4:33:31You want us to explore it

4:33:33and know that you'll get the best professional advice.

4:33:36You're not just gonna get us looking something up

4:33:37and telling you, it'll be fact based and data based.

4:33:41And then you connect it to what councillor just did.

4:33:44What are the lots you're approving

4:33:47and are any of them likely to be in compliance with it?

4:33:49And if not, then no.

4:33:51And I think we'll get to that in October.

4:33:53And I think that's where you're trying.

4:33:54I think that's why you're all trying to get us,

4:33:56but I looked at councillor Aurek,

4:33:57she's starting to keep us to that higher level

4:34:01versus you cannot solve it tonight

4:34:02because you don't have all the facts.

4:34:06Okay, councillor Aurek, did you have a possible amendment

4:34:09to this that you wanted to bring forward?

4:34:12I have sent one that's possible amendment,

4:34:15but honestly, it's not up to me to be revising the amendments.

4:34:21So I'm trying to keep us moving along, truly, right?

4:34:24Like, truly.

4:34:28So Mr. Godfrey, does this work?

4:34:31Like we, the other thing is we already have a bylaw, right?

4:34:35For fire, Mr. Godfrey?

4:34:40Through you, chair to councillor Aurek

4:34:43or outside burn, there's regulations,

4:34:49there's multiple regulations.

4:34:50I don't want to answer at this point in time,

4:34:52but for recreational fires to be permitted,

4:34:56there needs to be a bylaw,

4:34:58but this is something that we would take away.

4:35:00There's fire code and everything else that we would explore

4:35:03and provide information on,

4:35:04but the motion appears to be good.

4:35:08And just a quick comment.

4:35:11Is it possible just behind the scenes and for information?

4:35:16We can look at some other municipal comparators

4:35:19within the region just to see what they're doing.

4:35:22So it could just be potential lessons learned or...

4:35:29So maybe, so councillor Chew, we will do all of that.

4:35:32When, if you tell us to go away and do it,

4:35:34that's a given that that takes place.

4:35:36So we won't just pretend we exist in a vacuum

4:35:39like we do on all kinds,

4:35:40like we'll bring it to you to tell you,

4:35:42here's what happens in other places.

4:35:45That's a given.

4:35:46All you've got to do is direct us if you're interested.

4:35:48Say no, if you're not direct us, if you're interested,

4:35:51the big decisions come,

4:35:52and we won't get you to October

4:35:54where you get to not make a decision.

4:35:56We're going to spend a lot of time and energy on this.

4:36:00You've got to decide come October,

4:36:02well, now I have all the facts.

4:36:04We will not bring this to you without all the facts

4:36:06because we don't need another four months

4:36:07of going away to review more.

4:36:09We will bring you everything in our power

4:36:11to allow you to make decisions that evening on October.

4:36:15Thank you, CAO Stewart.

4:36:17Yeah, I think just for my own personal clarity

4:36:19and just to put it on the public form as well,

4:36:22it would be nice to have some comparators

4:36:25in that information that we're given.

4:36:28Okay, how about we move on from this?

4:36:30And when we vote on the amendment,

4:36:32if we can put that on the screen.

4:36:35Okay, we need a seconder, Councillor Goller.

4:36:40Okay, motion amendments on the floor.

4:36:44That staff report back by October 2023

4:36:46on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:36:48in order to review the outdoor recreational fire burning

4:36:52bylaw, including the potential use of smokeless

4:36:54recreational wood burning fires.

4:36:58Okay, I'm going to call the vote.

4:37:00Those opposed, Councillor Caton.

4:37:05Okay, that motion is carried.

4:37:09And back to the actual motion.

4:37:12If we put that on the screen, it's a lot of reading here.

4:37:25Yeah.

4:37:29Yeah, Councillor, or sorry, Chair Chew,

4:37:31just for Councillor Benefite,

4:37:32I mean, it's the motion that was shown on screen earlier,

4:37:35lest the bolded font now is sort of our way

4:37:37of delineating between an amendment.

4:37:39So committee can vote on that per your direction.

4:37:44Okay, I'm just going to call the vote for the motion as is.

4:37:48Do I have to read it?

4:37:50Okay, those opposed.

4:37:54Councillor Caton, okay, motion is carried.

4:37:58Okay, I think we're going to our last one now.

4:38:02That staff report back by October 2023

4:38:04on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:38:07in order to add to the creation of a bylaw ban,

4:38:10meaning the use of and sale of fireworks.

4:38:13Okay, anyone have, okay, Councillor Goller.

4:38:19Thank you, and through you, Chair Chew.

4:38:21This has come to me from constituents who suffer PTSD,

4:38:26and from constituents who have pets

4:38:28that are significantly affected by the loud noise

4:38:31of the banging of the gunpowder fireworks.

4:38:36Now we have different technology available

4:38:39that drones could be used to produce the light shows

4:38:43for Canada Day, for nears.

4:38:46So this would be requesting staff to explore a bylaw

4:38:51that prohibits the use and the sale

4:38:55of the explosive fireworks that we have.

4:38:58Currently, their sale is allowed

4:39:02on the week before and the week after,

4:39:05or the week before some special events,

4:39:07and we only allow fireworks to be used

4:39:09on three days a year, I believe.

4:39:12The challenges that they're being used for the week after,

4:39:16on and off during, in the community.

4:39:19So that is my intention here.

4:39:23And yeah.

4:39:25Okay, Councillor Allt.

4:39:27Yeah, thank you very much.

4:39:28And again, this is another one where as much

4:39:30as I love fireworks, I think that we have to face facts,

4:39:33that perhaps this is the time that has come.

4:39:35I recognize that it could be challenging

4:39:37for staff to ban this.

4:39:39And I think that truly the only way that this can happen

4:39:41is if the provincial government

4:39:42banned backyard fireworks across the province.

4:39:46On the other hand, I think we do need to consider

4:39:48many things such as, well,

4:39:52wealth amongst other places is becoming tender many times,

4:39:55much earlier in the year.

4:39:57We saw that, we went to Code Yellow for our water.

4:40:01Similarly, I will not hesitate to state

4:40:04that fireworks are far more powerful

4:40:06than they were when I was a kid.

4:40:08And our laws around fireworks changed substantially.

4:40:12When I was a kid, we used to be able to buy firecrackers

4:40:15that were larger than our fingers.

4:40:17As a few kids got their fingers blown off, we banned those.

4:40:20Maybe it's time for us to consider that as well.

4:40:25Okay, I'm just gonna go to Mayor Guthrie,

4:40:27then we'll go back to Councillor Gaulder.

4:40:30Thanks, Chair, and through you.

4:40:31So I just don't know.

4:40:33And I'm just gonna ask this question then.

4:40:35If you know the answer to staff, I'd love to know it.

4:40:38Are we allowed to ban the sale of fireworks in our cities?

4:40:42Through you, Chair, Councillor Guthrie

4:40:44is part of the review, we would research that.

4:40:46That's part of the review to come back in October.

4:40:48So you don't know that answer?

4:40:49You don't know the answer?

4:40:50Okay, that's fine, okay.

4:40:52So I guess I just have a question through to the mover,

4:40:59if you don't mind, through you, Chair.

4:41:05Are you steadfast in wanting to stay on banning, done?

4:41:10That's it.

4:41:11Because I think there may be some others

4:41:14that are okay with limiting or certain times of use.

4:41:21Like a good, a good, a good, a good fulsome review

4:41:24and engagement on the bylaw to allow some use

4:41:28under certain circumstances,

4:41:29or maybe there's a permitting process.

4:41:31I'm just making it up.

4:41:32But I just wanna know like how open you are,

4:41:35because if staff come back with a saying that we could ban,

4:41:41I mean, whatever, but that just means people in Guelph

4:41:45will just jump to Fergus and buy fireworks

4:41:47and come here or jump to Kitchener

4:41:49and come back here or jump to Cambridge

4:41:50and come back here.

4:41:51So it doesn't matter.

4:41:53So I guess I just wanna know what the appetite is

4:41:55of the mover on the intent, ban, done,

4:41:58or was it to have a fulsome review?

4:42:03Through you, Chair, currently the City of Caledon

4:42:06and the City of Brampton have banned the possession statement

4:42:09possession, sale and use of consumer fireworks.

4:42:12They did that last year.

4:42:13So it is possible.

4:42:16I don't know the details of how they did it

4:42:18or what hopes they had to jump through.

4:42:21And currently the City only allows it to be used

4:42:23on a couple of days.

4:42:25The problem is that people don't follow those restrictions.

4:42:29They're easily, relatively easily available.

4:42:32And the complaints that I get,

4:42:34some of them are about the big light shows

4:42:37for Canada Day, but most of the concerns,

4:42:40I would say 90% of the complaints that I'm getting

4:42:43is about the use of fireworks outside

4:42:46of those specific times and dates.

4:42:49So I think as part of the staff review,

4:42:52the intention is to have a ban.

4:42:55But if staff present options and they could say,

4:42:57you could ban it or you could restrict it,

4:42:59then I think that would be for Council to decide.

4:43:03Okay, thank you.

4:43:04Thank you, Chair.

4:43:05I think you're wanting to be steadfast

4:43:08in what's been presented and seconded.

4:43:10Okay.

4:43:12Yeah, I don't know.

4:43:13I might consider maybe an amendment to see

4:43:15if somebody else would consider seconding.

4:43:17I have no idea, but I wouldn't go to a full outright ban

4:43:21myself, but I certainly location more limited enforcement.

4:43:28I don't know, I feel like that's all worthy.

4:43:31But an outright ban,

4:43:32I just feels like sort of the fun police is coming up

4:43:38for you a little bit.

4:43:39So I'll leave it at that.

4:43:41Thank you, Chair.

4:43:44Councillor Orrick.

4:43:47Thanks, Chair Chew.

4:43:50Through you to staff, Mr. Godfrey,

4:43:52we already have restrictions on fireworks.

4:43:56And then you've got people following day,

4:43:59following week who are putting them off.

4:44:01Like in my mind, it makes no sense to bring in a bylaw

4:44:05that we can't enforce.

4:44:07So can you just give me an idea?

4:44:09How easy is it to enforce a ban on fireworks?

4:44:12Because once they get the call by the time you're there,

4:44:14they're probably gone.

4:44:16Through you, Chair, to Councillor Orrick.

4:44:18Currently we do have a fireworks ban in place

4:44:21that regulates the sale as well as the use.

4:44:26The purpose of the report coming back in October 23,

4:44:31in October would be to provide council direction

4:44:34on how long it would take to do.

4:44:36And part of the review would,

4:44:39part of if council says, yeah, go ahead

4:44:41and go do that review, part of the review

4:44:43would determine how enforcement would work

4:44:47in the effectiveness of that.

4:44:48That would be part of the review itself to report back.

4:44:51Okay, thank you.

4:44:52And so through Councillor Chew to you, Mr. Godfrey,

4:44:55I think you've just answered my second question.

4:44:58Because I want to be crystal clear.

4:45:00You're not coming back in October with,

4:45:03these are all considerations for these things, right?

4:45:06You're coming back to say, wow, this fireworks thing

4:45:08would require massive consultation

4:45:11with the Rotary Clubs and the cultural communities.

4:45:14And my neighborhood does a great big fireworks display

4:45:17that replaced a big fun fair that is a,

4:45:20you know, they have a permit,

4:45:23it's a pyrotechnics guy who's licensed, all that stuff.

4:45:27So you're gonna come back in October and say,

4:45:29we can look at this, but it's gonna displace

4:45:32on street parking or something else.

4:45:34That's correct, right?

4:45:35You're just coming back to say,

4:45:36it's gonna take this much time and this would move out.

4:45:40To chair to Councillor Roark, that is correct.

4:45:43The intent is back in, when we come back in October,

4:45:45we'll give you the list of items,

4:45:47how long it would take and what can be removed.

4:45:50Okay, thanks.

4:45:51I did want to pose a question if I may to my colleagues here.

4:45:56How, and I guess a GM Godfrey,

4:46:00if you wanna jump in as well, this would be appropriate.

4:46:04Like how feasible and is it possible as well

4:46:07for us to apply some kind of area specific provisions

4:46:11for fireworks to be allowed?

4:46:12Because there are cases in neighborhoods

4:46:15where fireworks are going off.

4:46:17We get the complaints, we can't really enforce it.

4:46:20Bylaws kind of useless.

4:46:22But if we apply some kind of expectation that,

4:46:25yes, you can go to certain locations around the city

4:46:29to have fireworks, then I think a standard would be set

4:46:34and that's something that we could possibly apply

4:46:37moving forward.

4:46:39I just opened this up to my colleagues

4:46:40and to GM Godfrey for a response.

4:46:45To you, Chair, as when we report back in October,

4:46:48we would give you the timeline of how long it would take us

4:46:52to conduct a full some fireworks review.

4:46:55Part of that review would be looking at the sale,

4:46:58the deployment and where it can be used on that.

4:47:01That would be part of the review.

4:47:04Okay, and I got Councillor Keaton.

4:47:09Thank you, it's for you, Chair.

4:47:12So there's more than just the consideration of noise, right?

4:47:15Like these are also a large amount of air pollution

4:47:19and they are part of our missions.

4:47:22So when we're looking to reduce community emissions,

4:47:25which is something that a lot of people

4:47:26have been asking us to do, this is one way to do it.

4:47:29Now, I'm sure last time that this was reviewed,

4:47:32there wasn't the availability of some of the new technologies

4:47:35that we have up there right now.

4:47:37Many, many cities have changed over to drone shows

4:47:40and this past Canada day, I was taking a bike ride

4:47:43with my daughter and there is kids setting off fireworks

4:47:46in the woods right near me.

4:47:48So I think that the availability of them in the city

4:47:52is a very large problem.

4:47:54So I would consider the full ban to be something

4:47:58that we are moving forward with.

4:47:59And it's not the fun police because there are alternatives.

4:48:02There's just less impactful on the environment,

4:48:05less impactful on people.

4:48:07And we need to kind of go with the times.

4:48:13Mayor Guthrie.

4:48:15Yes, I have an amendment, Chair,

4:48:16and I've sent it to the clerks.

4:48:18I don't know if I have a seconder,

4:48:19but I'd like to just amend a few of the wording in there,

4:48:23just to see if a committee would be on board.

4:48:27So maybe I'll just ask clerks to put up on the screen.

4:48:31I'm happy to read it out.

4:48:32And then just as it's coming up on screen,

4:48:44I'll read it now.

4:48:46That staff report back by October 2023

4:48:49on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:48:52in order to facilitate a full engagement process

4:48:56on the deployment, use, and sale of fireworks

4:48:59within the city of Guelph.

4:49:03Just for my own personal clarity,

4:49:05can you maybe define full engagement if you may?

4:49:09Sure.

4:49:10Well, I'll leave it to maybe Mr. Guthrie to say,

4:49:13but I remember at the beginning,

4:49:15they talked about efficiency of their work plan,

4:49:17how they have like a large and then a smaller one

4:49:19to accommodate their work plans as they move forward.

4:49:22I think in October, I would imagine that

4:49:24if this motion or this amendment were to pass,

4:49:27that then those details of what a full engagement would mean

4:49:30would come before us.

4:49:31And then that way, Mr. Guthrie can,

4:49:35and us at the same time,

4:49:36can understand what that would actually mean,

4:49:38cost-wise, timeline-wise, all that kind of stuff.

4:49:41But Mr. Guthrie, am I saying the right thing or not?

4:49:44Through you, Chair, to Mayor Guthrie,

4:49:46in the actual bylaw review,

4:49:49and for report, it shows the questions that staff ask

4:49:53every time we do a review in the public engagement

4:49:56that we undertake.

4:49:58So there's a framework for each bylaw review

4:50:04that we do.

4:50:05Okay, I'm comfortable with that.

4:50:07I'm seeing nods around the table as well.

4:50:11Yep, okay, this is seconded by Councillor Allt.

4:50:14Okay, yes.

4:50:17So through you, Mr. Chair,

4:50:18I like this WhatsApp on the screen.

4:50:19So let me say that, but I want to get clarity too.

4:50:22This isn't moving away from what I think

4:50:24the original intention was.

4:50:25The original intention had the word ban in it.

4:50:27You've removed it purposely.

4:50:29That opens it up for other options.

4:50:32You get the ban, it's just ban.

4:50:34This one has a little bit more flex,

4:50:37I suppose, than what we might bring back.

4:50:38So just for clarity, I just want to make sure

4:50:41if you were hoping for full out ban,

4:50:44this isn't directly to full out ban,

4:50:46which I still think is appropriate.

4:50:48This is a better one, I think,

4:50:49for your decision making later,

4:50:50because you are going to hear from some groups

4:50:53that are not going to be happy with consideration.

4:50:56So this at least gives you a bit of room

4:50:58to be able to have those discussions.

4:50:59So I just, Councillor Chew,

4:51:00I just want to make sure that's okay with everybody,

4:51:03because that's how we are seeing it here.

4:51:05You're not getting to the full stop of ban.

4:51:08It might get you there,

4:51:09because it brings you sort of choices on a menu,

4:51:12but earlier your only choice was ban.

4:51:15Right, okay, thank you.

4:51:19I'm going to ask Councillor Goller,

4:51:20did you have anything to add or you're okay?

4:51:23Through you, Chair Chew,

4:51:25just one question to Mr. Garfrey.

4:51:28As part of this direction,

4:51:30would one of the options that your team considers,

4:51:33would it be an outright ban

4:51:35on the sale of consumer fireworks,

4:51:37given the wording ended by council?

4:51:39I would understand that there would be other options,

4:51:41but just that one of them.

4:51:44I just wanted to make sure that.

4:51:47To you, Chair, to Councillor Goller,

4:51:50as part of our review,

4:51:51we would look at deregulation as well as Danny.

4:51:56You look at both sides.

4:51:59Okay, why don't we just call the vote?

4:52:01I think there's some consensus in the room

4:52:03on the direction of this.

4:52:04So, I can clerk's put this on the screen one more time.

4:52:14Okay, I'll just read it out.

4:52:15So it's crystal clear for everyone,

4:52:18that staff report back by October 2023

4:52:20on the proposed timelines for changes to the work plan

4:52:22in order to facilitate a full engagement process

4:52:26on the deployment, use, and sale of fireworks

4:52:29within the city of Guelph.

4:52:31All those opposed?

4:52:35Okay, motion is carried.

4:52:39Oh, and as amended, still getting used to this.

4:52:44Okay, now we're gonna vote on the actual motion.

4:52:46All those opposed?

4:52:50None, motion is carried.

4:52:52Okay, I think that concludes the bylaw review update.

4:52:59Now we're gonna move on to the e-scooter bylaw

4:53:02on under section 11.2.

4:53:06And why don't we just get to the delegations?

4:53:11I believe we have Adrian Salvatore.

4:53:25I could just get one of those beautiful

4:53:28strategic plan booklets after, make it worth my time.

4:53:33Thanks for coming and thanks for waiting this long.

4:53:36Your time starts now, whenever you're ready.

4:53:38Great, thank you.

4:53:40Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie, esteemed members of council

4:53:43and respected city staff.

4:53:45My name is Adrian Salvatore.

4:53:48And I'm here today in my capacity

4:53:54as the chair of the Guelph Coalition

4:53:56for Active Transportation.

4:53:58We are very happy to see this recommendation

4:54:00has come back to join the Ontario pilot

4:54:04and allow economical, sustainable micro-mobility

4:54:08for our city.

4:54:10The Guelph Coalition for Active Transportation's opinion

4:54:13remains that electric kick scooters are a member

4:54:17of the Active Transportation family

4:54:19and an excellent transportation option

4:54:22to help reduce car dependency.

4:54:25We recently put out a survey to our membership

4:54:28requesting feedback for them to inform our advocacy.

4:54:32A major point that arose was nearly two thirds

4:54:35of the respondents were concerned about ambiguities

4:54:38and gray areas in bylaws around micro-mobility.

4:54:41A clarification that we believe would be helpful

4:54:44with e-scooters is defined rules around bike lane use.

4:54:48We hope that e-scooters will be allowed

4:54:49to be used in cycle lanes and we don't see any concern

4:54:52with them mixing with similar speed cycle traffic.

4:54:56Additionally, there was a clear consensus

4:54:58from our survey respondents with nearly 95%

4:55:01in support of e-scooters sharing bike lanes.

4:55:05With respect to limitations placed on e-scooter use

4:55:08in trails and multi-use pathways,

4:55:10we understand staff's concerns,

4:55:12though we see a few situations,

4:55:14particularly with multi-use paths

4:55:18where this may place an e-scooter in an unsafe position.

4:55:22A prime example of this is Woodlawn Road,

4:55:25where the 60 kilometer an hour speed limit,

4:55:28volume of vehicle traffic, truck traffic,

4:55:30slip lanes and highway connection

4:55:33presents a serious hazard to vulnerable road users.

4:55:37The adjacent multi-use path presents a much safer route,

4:55:40where there is already an expectation

4:55:43of cycle traffic traveling at similar speeds to e-scooters.

4:55:47Hamilton, for example, has a specific carve out for this

4:55:50in their bylaw, allowing e-scooters

4:55:53on Boulevard adjacent multi-use pathways.

4:55:56Our ask is that consideration are made

4:55:59for situations such as this,

4:56:01to ensure that vulnerable road users

4:56:03will be as safe as possible.

4:56:05Regarding education, as a community organization,

4:56:08we also aim to do our part,

4:56:10educating our members and the public

4:56:12about responsible safe e-scooter operation.

4:56:15We are very happy to see our city catching up

4:56:17with our municipal peers.

4:56:19Thank you for your time.

4:56:21Okay, thank you, Ms. Adrienne.

4:56:24I'm gonna open the floor to members of council

4:56:27for any questions.

4:56:29Yeah, Councillor Goller.

4:56:31Thank you, through you, Chair Chew, Mr. Salvador.

4:56:34Thank you for bearing with us.

4:56:36And I wanted to just follow up within your membership.

4:56:41How many people would you say about

4:56:43are you using e-scooters in Guelph?

4:56:47We haven't done broad research

4:56:49on how many of our members are e-scooter users.

4:56:53At a recent bike valet

4:56:54that we operated at the Multicultural Festival,

4:56:57we did see about two dozen e-scooters come through

4:56:59out of, I think it was 250 bicycles.

4:57:03So there is some representation there.

4:57:05I mean, that is considering that they're,

4:57:07at this point, technically not allowed for use.

4:57:10Okay.

4:57:11Thank you very much, I appreciate that.

4:57:14I do have a question.

4:57:16Agent, just from my understanding of how GCAT works,

4:57:21how are you guys educating your members

4:57:24on safety and liability of e-scooters

4:57:26and just micro mobility in general,

4:57:28within Guelph and even outside the city walls?

4:57:32Thank you for the question.

4:57:34Safety and education is a big part of our mission.

4:57:37Of course, we want to expand the quantity, quality

4:57:39and safety of all our active transportation,

4:57:41infrastructure and education is a huge part of that.

4:57:44Some of our board members support safe cycling courses.

4:57:48I believe Canbike is the name of that course.

4:57:51We also put out regular updates, both to our newsletter.

4:57:55It's about 750 subscribers on our newsletter,

4:57:58our website, our social media.

4:58:00So there's multiple factors that we use

4:58:02to put out messaging about being safe

4:58:05and how to properly use infrastructure.

4:58:09Okay. Any other additional questions?

4:58:13No. Thank you for your time.

4:58:15Thank you.

4:58:18Okay. I guess we can open up for discussion.

4:58:21Mayor Guthrie.

4:58:24Thanks to you, Chair.

4:58:25Only got one question.

4:58:27Multiuse path issue.

4:58:29That's it.

4:58:32Are we good to go?

4:58:34How are you thinking how you design the bylaw right now

4:58:38versus the concerns that are up there?

4:58:41Because I've heard some concerns

4:58:42about the exact same thing outside of GCAT

4:58:44and I appreciate GCAT coming.

4:58:47I've heard the same concerns as well

4:58:49for people trying to get around

4:58:50and then they're not allowed to use multiuse paths.

4:58:55Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie,

4:58:58as indicated in the report,

4:58:59obviously it's been a quick turnaround for this.

4:59:02Staff hadn't had the opportunity to look

4:59:05into this, the resources.

4:59:06However, I can take it back to the transportation staff

4:59:09who are back at the end of the month, if not in October.

4:59:13We have not had the opportunity

4:59:14to explore the safety aspect of it.

4:59:18Okay, just through you, Chair.

4:59:20Not, you don't have to say the October part

4:59:22because this is gonna be,

4:59:23this isn't something that's gonna come back on October.

4:59:25I don't think this is something that we can actually approve

4:59:27by the end of July, right?

4:59:30Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie,

4:59:32we can report back at the end of the month if it's possible.

4:59:34And if not, perhaps recommend that it be reviewed again

4:59:37in October.

4:59:39Okay.

4:59:41Well, I'm certainly not wanting that.

4:59:43I think we need to get people into compliance

4:59:47with the e-scooters,

4:59:48the hundreds of them that are out in our city right now

4:59:50and not wait three, four more months.

4:59:52But so, okay, Councillor, through you, Chair,

4:59:57I think Councillor Goller has a potential amendment

5:00:01on that issue.

5:00:02And I think we should just give the direction

5:00:04to make it clear now.

5:00:04Yeah, and just to clarify,

5:00:06this is an amendment to the initial motion

5:00:08or is this an additional motion?

5:00:12Through you, Chair, too.

5:00:12It would actually be an amendment to the motion

5:00:16that I've sent it to the clerks.

5:00:19Currently the motion reads that the Council approve

5:00:23the draft by-law,

5:00:24which would be coming to the end of the month.

5:00:27And part of the staff report indicates

5:00:30that e-scooters would only be allowed on city roadways.

5:00:33I'll based on feedback from the public

5:00:39and looking at the provincial regulations

5:00:41that e-scooters should be allowed

5:00:43wherever bicycles are allowed.

5:00:45I am moving number one,

5:00:48that e-scooters usage be limited to city roadways

5:00:52and multi-use paths.

5:00:55And then this would allow city staff

5:00:58to come back at the end of the month with a by-law

5:01:00that includes multi-use paths

5:01:02or rationale why that would be folly.

5:01:05So, but I just wanna make it clear

5:01:08before we send them down the road to say,

5:01:10you said only city roadways.

5:01:13We also want you to use multi-use paths.

5:01:17If Council does not believe

5:01:18that we should use multi-use paths,

5:01:19now's the chance to vote this down

5:01:21and then staff doesn't have to do.

5:01:23So, my amendment to the motion is that e-scooters usage

5:01:26be limited to city roadways and multi-use paths.

5:01:29I don't know if I have a second there.

5:01:32His worship, Mayor Guthrie, a second there.

5:01:34Mayor Guthrie.

5:01:35Okay, before we get to that,

5:01:37I do wanna give staff an opportunity to respond

5:01:40and I'll just preface maybe the response

5:01:43by saying this,

5:01:45we only have around six formal multi-use pathways

5:01:48around the city.

5:01:50Is this really going to be a hindrance

5:01:52in terms of liability and safety

5:01:55when it comes to drafting,

5:01:57scoping out the legal mechanisms

5:02:01associated to your review?

5:02:05To you, Chair, as indicated in the report,

5:02:07the transportation staff,

5:02:08the active transportation staff

5:02:10had not had the opportunity to review

5:02:12the impact of e-scooters on the multi-use paths

5:02:15with different levels of speed

5:02:18and that of the or engage the other users

5:02:21of those multi-use paths.

5:02:23My recommendation is that I speak to them

5:02:26and report back at the end of the month.

5:02:29Hope you won't.

5:02:30Okay, CEO Stewart.

5:02:34Through you, Mr. Chair, sorry,

5:02:35I guess I'm feeling like I'm always grouchy

5:02:38about these things this evening.

5:02:40I think because of the way you phrased that,

5:02:43I think we ought to check with our legal folks.

5:02:46Because you've asked the public like that,

5:02:48we've got the answer, what a liability attaches to it.

5:02:51I completely understood what the delegate was talking about

5:02:53when he was speaking about the one example.

5:02:55It would make more sense.

5:02:57And I think that's what GM Godfrey's gonna have to do,

5:03:00is now that you've asked it that way,

5:03:01we're gonna have to report back on,

5:03:04because the really good news is here,

5:03:05staff got this in front of you

5:03:07so that you could approve the e-scooter bylaw.

5:03:09That's the really positive news.

5:03:11But now if we want to extend it to other places,

5:03:13we haven't signed it, we haven't done any of those things.

5:03:17And yes, it's happening today,

5:03:19but there is a bit of a little bit of ignorance

5:03:21as bliss component to that, as you know.

5:03:24But now that we're talking about liability publicly,

5:03:26I'd actually like to get an opinion on that,

5:03:29so that at the end of the month,

5:03:30your eyes are wide open on that one too.

5:03:32And it's just the way that you're prefaced it.

5:03:34I thought, well, that's problematic now,

5:03:36because now the way you've asked it,

5:03:37we have to tell you, we don't have that answer tonight,

5:03:40but we should get it for you now.

5:03:42So I would just say you can vote for that,

5:03:43and we would be able to answer that at the end of the month

5:03:46when it goes to full council as well.

5:03:49Mayor Guthrie followed by Councillor O'Rourke.

5:03:51So through you, Chair, and to my colleagues, perhaps then,

5:03:55this is the exact same formula,

5:03:58as was the original discussion around patios,

5:04:00which is to ask staff,

5:04:03do you require a motion from us right now,

5:04:07or because you understand what we're asking,

5:04:10that you would go away and be before the end of the month,

5:04:12you'll provide a memo attached to the addendum,

5:04:15at least, telling us of the concerns

5:04:18that maybe are raised from a liability point of view,

5:04:21but also on the usage of multi-use paths,

5:04:24and then we can make the final decision

5:04:25at the end of the month.

5:04:26Through you, Mr. Chair, we were listening intently.

5:04:28We'll come back at the end of the month without any motions,

5:04:31and let's not add to that this evening.

5:04:32We'll just get that in front of you.

5:04:34Okay, so I'll leave it to you, Chair,

5:04:36to talk to the mover.

5:04:38Okay, I'll let Councillor Wurk say something.

5:04:42You have a comment?

5:04:45So no, my question was whether Councillor Goller

5:04:47would then consider removing the motion,

5:04:50because as it stands, and having heard C.O. Stewart,

5:04:54we're trying to make a decision with zero,

5:04:57like there's no staff report,

5:04:59there's no recommendation, I don't know, right?

5:05:01So I don't want to support it today,

5:05:03but if you withdrew it, and there was more information,

5:05:05maybe I support it at the end of the month,

5:05:07with zero information around, what does that mean for,

5:05:12parents with strollers and that kind of stuff,

5:05:13or how many multi-use paths do we have,

5:05:15or how do we define a multi-use path?

5:05:17Are they paved?

5:05:18Is it a recreational trail?

5:05:20I don't know, right?

5:05:21So it makes sense.

5:05:22If I can have my e-bike along the Hanlon Creek Boulevard,

5:05:26that's a beautiful multi-use path, it's paved,

5:05:28that makes sense to me,

5:05:29but I don't have enough information to vote on this tonight.

5:05:32So I'm just wondering if you would consider withdrawing.

5:05:36And through you, Church,

5:05:37having heard from city staff that we will get more information

5:05:41on multi-use paths,

5:05:42I'm happy to withdraw the amendment.

5:05:49Okay, perfect.

5:05:50So the initial motion is on the floor.

5:05:53I do want to say just to provide some clarity,

5:05:57I also don't want to be a Debbie Downer here,

5:05:58like maybe our CAO is, for legal reasons,

5:06:02and for just to provide some clarity.

5:06:07That's just a joke, by the way.

5:06:09I see a new handle for me around city hall now.

5:06:11Debbie Downer, thank you very much, Church.

5:06:15I just want to say,

5:06:16I think this is also similar to the wood firing,

5:06:20recreational, yeah, the wood firing discussion we just had.

5:06:29I think let's put this in this perspective.

5:06:31We have limited multi-use paths,

5:06:33and there is an opportunity here for us

5:06:36to raise some expectations around the safety

5:06:39and usability of micro-mobility.

5:06:48Losing my words here.

5:06:49Just around micro-mobility overall,

5:06:52I'm just thinking right now in my ward, ward six, Nisgar Road.

5:06:56We have some multi-use paths already.

5:06:58They're not being used as frequently

5:07:01as they were intended to,

5:07:03but perhaps if this bylaw review,

5:07:06where if this was being considered,

5:07:11maybe there's an opportunity to talk about safety

5:07:14and also even reduce the probability

5:07:18of illegal trucking traversing through Nisgar,

5:07:21which we get complaints about all the time.

5:07:24I'm just trying to put everything

5:07:25into perspective as well.

5:07:27We shouldn't be too restrictive,

5:07:28because front-facing, it does seem very innocent,

5:07:32but at the same time, just acknowledge our CAO.

5:07:35There are a lot of liability issues

5:07:36that we need to consider

5:07:38before we make a sober decision at the end of the month.

5:07:42So with that being said,

5:07:44let's just put the motion on the floor.

5:07:46I'll read it out and when we have the vote.

5:07:50Clarke's can put this up on the screen.

5:07:54Okay, e-scooter bylaw.

5:07:56That council approved the draft bylaw

5:07:59and any required amendments to traffic bylaw number 2002-2069.

5:08:05Eight to permit the operation of personal use,

5:08:09e-scooters effective August 1st, 2023.

5:08:13Any opposed?

5:08:15Okay, motion is carried.

5:08:19All right, I think that leads us to adjournment.

5:08:25Does anyone wanna move in second adjournment?

5:08:27Okay, moved by councillor Allt,

5:08:29seconded by Mayor Guthrie.

5:08:33Okay, have a great evening, everybody.

5:08:36Oh, right, can't leave just yet.

5:08:41Any opposed?

5:08:43Hey, none carried.

5:08:44Okay, have a good evening, everybody.

5:08:46Thank you for your patience.