Committee of the Whole

8:13All right, good afternoon everybody. It is Tuesday, February the 3rd,

8:172026 and we are meeting here in council chambers for our committee of the whole meeting. So thank

8:23you very much for joining us everybody. Right off the top please stand if you are able as we

8:29recognize our national anthem. Thank you. Just now a moment of silent reflection. Great, thank you.

10:11As we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work here in Guelph,

10:16a city built over rich indigenous histories. As guests here we should reflect upon the

10:21responsibility to care for this land and the people who live here today and the generations to come.

10:26For actions today can move us towards reconciliation we should take pause and make those decisions

10:30with intention and gratitude. This place we call Guelph is served as traditional lands in a place

10:35of refuge for many peoples over time but more specifically the Aniwaterok and the Honol Nishoni.

10:42This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the

10:45Credit First Nation. Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track which is part of a long

10:51established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations

10:56Inuit and M.A.T. people who've come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. And with that

11:03is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature thereof in front of us today by

11:07any of the items? I don't hear or see anybody so I'll consider that matter closed and just to

11:14have it on the record I have potential regrets but I think the councillor Gibson might be just a

11:20little bit late but he at least kind of gave the heads up there that he might be an hour late or so.

11:27With that we're jumping into our staff recognitions which is great this is always a good time of the

11:33agenda to honor and celebrate along the good work our staff have done. So we have a chair

11:40quassan who is actually going to read out several of them and then after chair quassan has done chair

11:47down or is going to do the final one for us today as we do those staff recognitions. So go right over

11:53to you thank you. Thank you Mr. Mayor and good afternoon everyone it's so nice to see so many

11:58of you here celebrating your colleagues. On behalf of council it's my pleasure to recognize the

12:04following city staff on their recent achievements. Firstly congratulations to Bill Bond and

12:09Bavline Carr on receiving their certificate in economic development which is an achievement

12:15jointly issued by the University of Waterloo and the Economic Developers Association of Canada.

12:21The certificate explores Canadian and international models for community economic development.

12:26Subject matter includes the study of the Canadian economy and issues facing local economic development

12:31such as labor and skills development, community marketing, economic analysis, business development

12:37and retention and expansion strategies. Congratulations Bill and Bavline on this achievement

12:42and continuing your professional development. Next I'd like to extend our congratulations to

12:48Kate Berry receiving her project management professional certification which is the world's

12:54leading project management certification. Project management professionals have demonstrated

12:59experience, knowledge and outstanding performance in achieving organizational objectives through

13:03defining and overseeing projects and resources. This industry recognized certification is based

13:10on project lifestyle life cycle leadership from initiating to planning, executing, monitoring

13:16and closing the project. Congratulations Kate on this milestone achievement.

13:21Today we're also recognizing Reza Aming Haferi for completing his PhD in Civil Engineering

13:28Transportation at the University of Waterloo. His thesis titled Quantifying and Mitigating

13:36Uncertainty in Crash Risk Prediction focuses on a major shift in how we keep roads safe by moving

13:43from reactive to proactive safety. Traditionally cities wait for crash history to accumulate

13:49before fixing a road. Reza's research focuses on a proactive alternative called conflict based

13:55analysis which uses near misses and traffic interactions to identify risks before a collision

14:02ever occurs. However a key challenge has been reliability. If you don't collect enough data

14:08quick studies can leave to false results. Reza developed a statistical framework to solve this

14:14creating a method that tells engineers exactly how much data is needed to be confident in their safety predictions.

14:23This research is especially timely for the city. The Vision Zero Action Plan specifically Action 46

14:30commits to using this exact type of conflict based analysis to identify risks. Reza's work

14:36provides the scientific blueprint to ensure that when we use this new data we are using it correctly

14:43preventing guesswork and ensuring our safety investments are targeting the locations that

14:47truly need them the most. This is tremendous work. Congratulations Reza and congratulations to Bill

14:55Bavline, Kate and Reza on your accomplishments and thank you for your commitment to professional

15:01development and excellence at work. I'm done over to you chair downer. Okay thank you so also today

15:19we are proud to recognize the extraordinary act of courage and professionalism of our staff

15:25in October 2025 during a regular day at the ice rink a patron experienced a sudden cardiac arrest

15:32a situation that could have ended tragically. Our staff did not hesitate to intervene in those

15:38first critical moments recreation staff immediately initiated CPR and deployed the automated

15:45external defibrillator the AED working tirelessly until emergency services arrived to take over.

15:53Recreation staff are here to create a safe and enjoyable spaces for our community but on that

15:59day they became first responders their quick thinking and strong training allowed them to

16:04stay calm under pressure and ultimately save a life. This is something truly remarkable. We also

16:12acknowledge the vital role of our emergency service partners fire and paramedics who expertise and

16:17rapid response ensured the best possible outcome. This collaboration among all staff demonstrates

16:25the strength and support to the community when we work together. This incident also underscores the

16:32importance of AEDs in public spaces. These devices are not just another piece of equipment they are

16:39life-saving tools combined with trained staff and community awareness they make a profound

16:46difference. To the hockey player first on the scene Kevin Lyons thank you for your immediate and quick

16:53response and to the recreation staff Jeremy McKenzie, Riley Kirk, Taylor Williams and other

16:59members of the team who responded thank you for your bravery your commitment and your dedication

17:05to safety and the well-being of everyone who walks through our doors. You remind us all what it means

17:13to serve with heart. To the Guelph-Wallington paramedic and Guelph fire teams thank you for your

17:19outstanding care and dedication not only to this patient but to every individual you serve. Your

17:25professionalism compassion and commitment make a profound difference in the lives of our residents

17:31and to the patient who I'm happy to say is here today Dawn Summers is here and he will

17:38join us today and our thanks for staff. So please join me in giving these teams the

17:44recognition that they truly do deserve. Thank you so much to both chairs there and just

18:01for to take a few moments now we do have the the Guelph backdrop over there so we're going to ask

18:06those that have been named maybe we could have the ones that chair Cossin did first kind of come

18:12down and we'll have some pictures over there to celebrate you and then after that we can see

18:18about a picture with everybody for the last one. There's a lot so Colleen is giving me good direction

18:25maybe we'll do it in the middle here where never no one's ever really allowed but we'll let you in

18:30here and we'll take a group photo there. It'll be nice to have the counselors in the background

18:36here too from giving some some team love to the whole situation so let's start off with

18:41counselor Cossin first we'll meet you down over there. All right just as everyone's leaving just

24:37to reiterate what chair Downer said just on behalf of council just that was just a wonderful

24:45a wonderful opportunity there so very grateful to our staff and what chair Cossin said as well to

24:53those furthering themselves with career and education and others to make our city better thank

24:59you very very much. With that we have a presentation now and it's our CAO Tara Baker who is going to

25:09be going over the 2026 CAO objectives just to give us a sort of a highlight of what council has

25:18agreed with to focus on this year and just to sort of follow the bouncing ball we have a subcommittee

25:27that does this work then presents it to all of council council approves that and we always then

25:34have the CAO come out into open session and explain everything that was approved and so this is just

25:41to kind of make sure that it transparently is presented to the public in this form so we really

25:48appreciate first of all can I just say you've got just over a year under your under your belt now

25:53and you're just doing an amazing job so thank you very very much for all you do and now we'll see

26:00what 2026 brings under under your wings so please go right ahead. Great thanks it's a it's hard to

26:07follow what we we we did the celebration that we just had and you know that's really truly

26:15what we do here at the city so so I just thought that was just so wonderful so good afternoon

26:22Mr. Mayor members of council our collective city team and members of the community that may be

26:29watching I'm Tara Baker the city CAO and really pleased to be here presenting the CAO objectives

26:35for 2026 this is an important annual process that unites our almost 2000 person workforce towards

26:42common set of goals this presentation outlines the key deliverables for the year how they align

26:48with our strategic priorities and how our values will guide our success and so we'll start with

26:57how these priorities were developed as the single employee of the city that reports to city council

27:03a subcommittee of council oversees the performance expectations of the CAO these meetings were held

27:10in november and january before the final objectives were approved by the whole of council last week

27:16council's approval of the performance objectives was an important moment that demonstrates alignment

27:21of expectations of administration and also of our collective council and executive leadership team

27:28for me this means we are making a commitment to be focused together a team that is driving

27:33towards the same key outcomes for our community from an administration perspective it's important

27:38to me that each and every department was represented in the development of the priorities

27:43taking guidance from our longer term vision of the strategic plan staff workshop their highest

27:48priority projects that must happen in 2026 or what we referred to as our our big unmovable rocks

27:56referencing Stephen Covey's big rock theory these were then validated from a staffing capacity

28:02perspective with the leadership team and executive team and finalized through the subcommittee

28:15our key objective deliverables fall under the four themes of future gulf foundation city building

28:21environment and people and economy this structure helps us to track progress and ensure everything

28:26we do is an outcome expected from the strategic plan we report annually to the community in june

28:32and july on our corporate performance in combination with our annual financial reporting

28:37bringing together a comprehensive and coveted performance management system

28:42amongst local government agencies while i won't go through everything on the slide

28:50foundations is in 2026 is really about strengthening core administrative and government

28:56governance systems that drive accountability and affordability over time many of the key

29:02deliverables are the result of multi-year projects coming to completion most notably

29:06significant technology enhancement and renewal projects and the adoption of water billing services

29:12from electra one of the most important things we will do this year is administer the 2026

29:18municipal election another project that has been in development for many years there has never been

29:24a more impactful time to unite in our agreement about the importance of our canadian democracy

29:30running an election is no small feat it means recruiting and training over 600 people

29:35readying thousands of ballots and programming hundreds of computers not to mention managing

29:40candidate registration and education processes and delivering the wraparound technology

29:46communication and website supports to make this successful keep pushing the wrong button sorry

29:58okay city building focuses on community infrastructure and growth major deliverables

30:04include finishing the construction and opening of the much anticipated south end community center

30:10construction completion of the new central library shaping the plans for gulf 200 celebration in a

30:16real tangible way and completing the final milestones of the housing accelerator fund

30:22policy work continues to be laser focused on enabling development quickly and our capital

30:27infrastructure plan is prioritized to ensure we are ready for both housing and employment growth when

30:33the economy rebounds before development can happen there has to be water and wastewater

30:38capacity available in the system a number of critical and significant capital projects are now

30:44underway that will transform the city's wastewater systems creating new capacity and driving efficiency

30:50and service delivery for the next generation we will also see investments in new water supply

30:55sources as well as a whole scale renewal of the city's main aquifer coming into the fm wood station

31:02the work that is happening is incredible and is the backbone to enabling the our future growth

31:13environment focuses on our role in environmental stewardship and reduces both corporate and

31:18community greenhouse gas emissions while protecting and improving our green spaces

31:23and building climate resiliency this year leveraging the most significant grant gulf has

31:28has received we will be starting construction on the transit and fleet service facility

31:34a project also many years in the making and is another generational investment that will enable

31:39not only the replacement of diesel fueled buses with electric but also provide maintenance space

31:44for the growing fleet as we increase transit route frequency and add new route connections

31:49across the city from people and economy this which is really centered on community well-being

31:58and economic growth very important this year with international trade policies shifting

32:04we follow the message of prime minister carney on a canada first approach municipal purchasing

32:10power positions us to be a key partner in driving economic growth on top of a significant capital

32:16plan that acts locally as a stimulus the city is also a major employer and holds key employment

32:22lands that we will use in business attraction we recognize that the landscape in which we do

32:28business is and has been changing rapidly we don't shy away from evaluating our policies

32:33our guidelines and our standards if they are counter to our goals this is truly the value

32:39of having a clear objective barriers should be identifiable and our teams are empowered to then

32:44consider alternative options our values shape how we deliver on our objectives just as important

32:52as what we achieve is how we act and operate to get to these outcomes the key objectives we just

32:58went through are quite project-specific while the vast majority of our workforce is focused on

33:04delivering core services to the community it's important to have objectives that are value-driven

33:10and every employee in the city can incorporate into their day-to-day so with that we will be

33:18focused on performance driving affordability through measurement and optimization we're

33:23prioritizing work that delivers measure measurable outcomes aligning with the strategic plan

33:29continuous improvement is at the center of our service philosophy culture emphasizes creativity

33:38helpfulness and pride we care about our customer experiences we expect leaders to support responsive

33:45innovative solutions and we build teams that anticipate issues and collaborate to prevent

33:50service disruptions growth focuses on balancing housing and jobs while responding to global

33:58economic pressures we are self-reflective on how our policies and practices have evolved over time

34:04and are open to collaborative discussions about alternatives and finally relationships reflect

34:11our role as a community member we collaborate with local organizations sharing meaningful stories

34:17celebrating our successes and promote respectful civic participation strong relationships build

34:23trust and help us achieve our goals as a community and so with that in closing I just want to return

34:31to my earlier message of alignment and teamwork council and administration are making a commitment

34:37to be focused together and a team that is driving towards the same outcomes so really look forward

34:43to working with you this year on performance culture growth and relationships and so thank you and

34:49welcome to respond to any questions thank you so much uh ceo terra baker and thank you for the

34:57presentation is there any questions at this time we're good looks like we're okay um so again thank

35:07you very much for presenting that not just for us but for the community too and and we look forward

35:12to updates uh with that uh I'm gonna uh not sit here anymore uh chair Goller is going to sit here

35:20as the chair of audit as we move into uh that discussion and so just give me a moment for

35:28chair Goller and i just response we're moving now into item 5.1 the internal audit work plan

36:14and we're going to start with a presentation from miss robert joseph the general manager of internal

36:20audit i'll turn it over to you robert all right thank you councillor Goller and good afternoon

36:31council and mayor um just want to give you a quick overview of the report without any

36:37formal presentation but uh just to give you a sense of where the report uh some of the things

36:41i want to highlight from the report um so the report presents the 2026 internal audit work plan

36:47and also provides a status update on 2025 activities as well as previewing priorities for

36:53audits in 2027 and beyond the plan supports the city's strategic objectives through improved

36:59governance risk management and internal control evaluations before we get into the details i

37:05wanted to highlight a few things about the process of setting the plan as in prior years the audit

37:10plan was developed using a number of input factors these include feedback from management and council

37:15consideration of emerging trends and results from an internal audit risk assessment utilizing

37:21self assessments completed by all department leaders i also want to sorry excuse me i also want

37:27to assert that all internal audit activity from sitting this plan to executing audits was done

37:33independently and objectively with no undue influence from the management team lastly internal

37:39audit activities do comply with the international internal audit or IIA standards for internal

37:45auditing attachment one of the report lists the 2026 priorities audits that are going to be focused

37:53on uh and these were chosen because of their elevated risk areas and potential governments

37:59improvements in terms of the 2025 audit status update as noted in detachment three four audits

38:07were scheduled two have been completed and two are in progress and are expected to be completed

38:11with the report reports to council in q2226 pre-consulting projects were completed including

38:19enterprise risk management framework advancement as well as an internal departmental compliance

38:24review with the updated IIA standards that became effective for 2025 during 2025 we also

38:35presented the first ERM risk register uh to council and that was done in june of 2025 an update to

38:42this document will be presented in july as part of our continued our commitment to continuous

38:48improvement at the end of each audit we ask clients to complete a customer survey using the

38:53results to identify opportunities to enhance the audit process the benchmark standard is a score of

38:5875 a satisfaction score of 81 was achieved in 2025 executing the audit plan strengthens

39:06strengthens governance accountability and risk management practices for the organization

39:12recommendations made in the audit reports were all accepted by management with action plans plans

39:17in place and followed up by us an internal audit there are sometimes financial implications of

39:22audit findings and these are managed through departmental budgets and council approval

39:27so looking ahead to 2027 and beyond work plan attached in attachment to uh was updated using

39:34the same risk based approach and lastly the internal audit charter remains valid until the end of

39:39current council term it will be updated next year with the uh new term of council

39:44so in conclusion the 2026 internal audit work plan positions the city to proactively manage

39:51risks improve efficiency and maintain compliance with professional standards while supporting

39:55strategic priorities and i'll open up the floor for questions thank you very much for that presentation

40:04i will go to the mayor first he said he wanted to ask a question or move a motion thank you chair

40:10and through you yeah i'm happy i'm happy to move the the work plan for 2026 first uh do we have a

40:17secondary is that councillor was it till that had her hand up okay thank you thank you so yeah just

40:23a couple of questions and then maybe just a little bit of a follow-up um the first one was just a

40:27question on the flow through of the building permits and inspection that's not quite done it's

40:34just kind of moved it moved into 2026 but it will be done in the first uh one or two quarters of this

40:39year i believe am i am i right on that i think so through the chair gollard to you mr. mayor yes

40:44that's correct okay report coming up in may and i was just wondering um is there anything that was

40:50a carryover or anything within your work plan right now where that can kind of scoot to the front of

40:55the line i'm just wondering like or know your plan has to follow the the course that it's on and it

41:02will it will be done when it's done so mr. mayor you referring to that particular audit just that

41:07one yeah just wondering because i know it's it's it's a carryover which we all want to have done

41:12but i'm just wondering like yeah i hope i explained the question right i'm just wondering can it can

41:18be moved moved up and can we get that information sooner than later because if there is anything

41:22within that i'm not not that the other ones aren't important but if there's anything in that one that

41:27does come across as needing some attention i was just wondering about trying to get that done earlier

41:33as quickly as possible so that we can implement the things that we want to have changed sooner

41:38yeah through uh through chair gollard to do uh mr. mayor um that report is actually in its final

41:43winddown phases right now okay that audit work okay so i think leaving it in that may

41:48timeline to have the final report to council is probably advantageous i don't think we can rush

41:53the process okay no no problem because we still have to go through it just a curiosity question so

41:59thank you very much do not rush it thank you okay and then my final one is wouldn't be a surprise

42:04about the winter maintenance one so thank you to staff and to you for acknowledging and putting

42:09this on as a recommendation i don't think anyone's gonna you know second guess that that's something

42:14that maybe we want to have looked at fair enough um but i just want to understand the scope of what

42:20you're doing for a value for money audit compared to what might be and council knows like a secondary

42:28sort of motion that might tie in with uh with where this is going and so when you do a value

42:35for money audit uh you're just looking at the existing policy standards and and how that is

42:42operating compared to it compared to those policies and standards now right nothing out of scope of like

42:50extra engagement or extra options or extra considerations it's just what do we have now

42:58and how is that how is that stacking up against itself am i explaining that okay yes you are

43:05through uh the chair councillor color too yourself mr. mayor yeah absolutely so our audit process does

43:09follow the value for money framework which includes an evaluation of current level of services and

43:15expectation standards to the point of that audit so our audits would not involve adding extra

43:22extra possible work or extra possible resourcing that's needed by the department i think that would

43:27be best served through a more full-sum exercise executed by the particular department in this

43:32case operations to sort of evaluate if that is something that that they're able to do within

43:37their work planning and their opportunity to do that in the near future so you're absolutely right

43:42our audit focus is just on existing sort of standards and practices and we'll assess effectiveness

43:47efficiency and economy to that yep perfect thank you well well stated so if um and i'll you know

43:54obviously i'll table this with my my colleagues to see if there is that that other option

44:01how would you work with how would you scope your work to be because you have a lot of um

44:07blinders in place place for a reason right you're like you're independent right so you want to do

44:13your work but at the same time how could if there was a an added scope on the operation side

44:20can you at least uh align the tabling of that report for council at a certain date you know

44:27down the road in 2026 so it could come together so we get the the internal audit the value for

44:34money audit that shows us how the existing maintenance standards and policies are working

44:40but then the operations can also table their options for what's happening at the same time

44:45and would it at least be done in enough time do you think your audit for um influencing

44:53the next budget if there were any you know impacts to that yeah through uh chair gollard to you

44:59yeah absolutely i mean obviously we haven't had any scoping discussions with the operations team

45:06or even talked about the timeline of the audit but definitely we can work with them and try and

45:13align to make sure that the results of our audit which i think would be beneficial to them in terms

45:18of establishing some baselines on existing services and then using that information to sort of help

45:24and you know at council direction decide if there might be some additional work or focus that

45:30needs to happen on possibly changing or altering or expanding those services so yes we would

45:35definitely work with the operations team to to provide a timeline that works for both of us

45:41i don't know Colleen if you want to i don't think that uh it's up to the chair okay i mean i was

45:47good to ask Colleen a question i mean wc a clock push a question anyways but yeah there's a couple

45:52of other questions but you go ahead so the floor is still yours well i i just because Robert acknowledged

45:59uh wc a clock push i just it saves me asking a question so so why don't you go ahead and say

46:05would you agree with sort of the timelines and the opportunity that would be before us if such a

46:10motion passed then i'll go right back to you chair gollard in case there's questions to the

46:14please go ahead the bco sure thank you for the opportunity so that a couple of things maybe that

46:19would be helpful for context so our operations department is sort of our quarterback for lack

46:24of a better analogy of our winter control efforts but we do have winter control efforts that take

46:27place both within our parks team and within our corporate facilities team so we would want

46:31any review while it would be led by our operations team we would want it to be a fulsome review of

46:35our winter control efforts um and the last time we provided an update to council there was an

46:40information report in uh june 2022 um i think june 17th if anyone wants to go look it up um was the

46:46last time we provided a fulsome update on what our winter control efforts are and at that time

46:51there's also attachments to that report um that anyone can look at because we do have council

46:55approved standards for level of service so council has set out for us and approved what are the

47:00service standards for example um how soon we get to residential sidewalks versus um bus stops versus

47:09streets that sort of thing and so those council approved standards exist um and uh and so uh

47:15the sort of long way around answer would be to say that if there was a desire to change those

47:19levels of service council would need to direct us to change the level of service obviously what you

47:23need from us is a sense of what would that take what would be the costing equipment staffing the

47:28resources that would be needed and so as mr. Jelassica said that would be work that would be

47:33coordinated through our operations department and we could come back to council with a report or

47:38some options for you on what would it take to change those levels of service that are currently

47:43that we're currently always trying to meet um so in answer to the timing question the the one

47:49flag that I do just want to say is that um we it's the same team who does a lot of our reviews

47:53within operations we pulled them off the e-scooter review when council directed us to move the

47:57renovation bylaw our review forward and it is the same staff who would need to do this work and so

48:02we would need to take that away and look at options um in terms of could this wait until after the

48:08renovation bylaw work was done does it need to happen sooner in which case how could we resource

48:13it and so I don't want to give specifics today um just kind of wanted to hear the discussion from

48:18council to see what the sort of direction was and then we'll need to go away and look at how

48:24we either need to adjust our work plans or look at what resourcing we need um because we did hear

48:29from council that the renovation bylaw was a priority um and so we would just need to take

48:33this away and figure out how best to look at that in 2026. Thank you chair and through you and thank

48:41you to uh CAO clock bush for the for that answer there um and and that's that's that's very fair

48:48I think I was told the renovation bylaw would come back may or June so maybe this is something that

48:52happens after that um but I'll I'll go back to the chair to allow if there's any questions on

48:58on the report but as council knows I'd like to move a secondary motion after this one

49:04around the maintenance snow plow issue okay so thank you. Thank you worship I'll go over to

49:10councillor Caron now. Thank you through you uh chair goller my question was um a little broader

49:15rather than specific items on your work plan I just wanted to comment that I really appreciate

49:20the value for money audits I find them very illuminating quite often we find out we're very

49:25efficient sometimes there's always improvements and sometimes um we actually um need more resources

49:31so they're they're very uh important part of us doing our job to the best of our fiduciary ability

49:37so my broader question was um I know in an audit cycle um you can expect that an audit

49:45in any given area would take place every you know seven to ten years we also at a concurrent

49:51policymaking um calendar we have bylaw reviews and I'm wondering if you could just speak to

49:57how we integrate our bylaw reviews with our internal audits and whether they're in all of my

50:05years on council we've never had an internal audit on the same department and the same line item

50:11when when can a department expect to have a review every 15 years uh broader broader question about

50:18the role that you're playing in the in the overall organization um through chair goller to

50:24councillor Caron uh yeah that's a great question and I think part of that speaks to the um the sort of

50:31the sort of time that internal audit has been a function here at the city of golf uh we really

50:36I think started this risk-based approach of a mistake in around 2017 uh and so understanding

50:42that the city is is is large there's a lot of different service areas there's a lot of different

50:46components um and you know quite honestly risks and the emergency emerging risk library or emerging

50:53risk world seems to change regularly and so we try to as much as we try to be proactive a lot of

50:59times I feel like our audits are a little bit reactive as well uh to some of the things that we

51:03should be doing um so I would say it's it's difficult to answer that question in terms of a specific

51:08time period when you know department should expect to to see an internal audit um so it's hard to

51:15say that and again this is why I think we do the annual audit plan setting uh through an avenue

51:20like this uh I know colleagues uh some of my colleagues will do like a five-year audit plan

51:24I think that you know that would be just a little bit too long of a term for us to be able to say

51:28yeah you know what in four years we're going to look at this because there are changes that that

51:32happen um so I think my hope would be that you know once we get through a sort of larger

51:38number of audits and again the ERM framework and policy help in that regard because it helps us to

51:43sort of identify the higher risk areas that we should focus on not only as an organization but

51:48internal audit as a department and so I think that having having gone through the different

51:53processes and functions uh at least as a first crack then we can sort of look to see what type of

51:59you know planning we could do in the future to have some of these repeat audits we also do

52:04counselor have a follow-up process so some of the larger areas that we audit and if we see a lot of

52:10recommendations come out of those we can execute a follow-up audit within a reasonable amount of

52:14time so for example more recently we did a follow-up of the payroll process which with an audit that

52:20was done back in 2017 identified a number of recommendations and so it was felt prudent that

52:24we should put that into our sort of audit plan for a camera year we did that but we did a follow-up

52:29audit within about a five-year window when all of the recommendations were were more or less

52:34completed and so that's something else another tool that we could use to help us sort of move

52:39audits into the the audit sphere if you will and as I always do every year I ask counsel for

52:45their thoughts and opinions on which audits we should execute so certainly I would encourage you

52:49and your colleagues if there's things that you want us to look at let us know what that is

52:54including a possible scope for that and we'll certainly work to add it into the audit plan

52:58depending on the risk assessment that we do. Okay thank you very much and I remember hearing that

53:02there's about 700 distinct services that the organization offers and if you do three to five

53:07a year that could take every 200 years your department gets an audit which of course obviously is

53:12is not good management of our resources so I'm really glad to hear that both regulatory change

53:16and council priorities are helping to steer that work plan so thank you for that. Thank you

53:22Councillor Kerr-on and I'll recognize Councillor Busuttil you're up next. Thank you and through

53:28your chair Goller I think most of my questions were asked by Mayor Guthrie but it's in relation

53:34and thank you to Mr. Jelacic and to your team I know you're a very small team but you're very

53:39effective and really appreciate the work that you do. It's around the scope I'm trying to understand

53:46the continuum of the scope would it include things like communication you know where is the plow

53:53report a problem do you go outside of operations or is operations just the you know hitting the plow

54:01on the road kind of operations? Yes thank you through chair Goller to Councillor Busuttil.

54:10Again we haven't had any detailed scoping discussions yet either internally for us as a

54:14department or with the with the teams that are involved in later maintenance but yes absolutely

54:20we wouldn't limit it to just the pure operations function we would look at the various components

54:25that would be a factor and again we use a risk-based approach so we wouldn't necessarily look at every

54:31single item that might be part of winter control maintenance but we will try to focus in and hone

54:36in on those areas that traditionally have been sort of higher risk in that particular function and I

54:43think certainly you know that sort of customer focus and that complaint dealing with complaints

54:50would be an element that would probably be in the scope of this audit like it is in most of the

54:54audits that we do execute we usually do look at that sort of customer feedback mechanism and

55:00more importantly to us is how those are dealt with and how they're escalated and how they're

55:03sort of action so we would look at that as a as a very strong possibility within the scope of the

55:08winter maintenance audit. Thank you very much. Thank you Councillor Busuttil. Are there any other

55:15questions or comments from my council colleagues? Seeing none I'll turn the floor back to your

55:21worship. Okay that's supplementary okay well thank you very much for this report Mr. Jalasek

55:31we're all very excited to see the work plan for 2026 I really appreciate it I'll call the vote

55:38all those against this report this motion. Seeing none the 2026 work plan is received thank you so

55:51much and with that I'll turn it over to Mayor Guthrie. Okay thank you and it stops the clerks

55:58to throw it up on the screen there for me the secondary motion that ties in with the

56:05value for money audits moved by myself and seconded by Councillor Busuttil that the

56:10operation service staff be directed to investigate and report back on winter control and winter

56:14maintenance service levels including potential additional services that the report back include

56:20financial and resourcing analysis along with the incorporation of community engagement components.

56:25I think I'll just let it stand at that but with a caveat that we've heard from Deputy

56:32CAO Clark Bush that if between now and the end of the month if you're looking at sort of the work

56:37plan and and the scope of you know when to do it and the resourcing and stuff that I'm happy to have

56:44that amend what comes back at the end of the month based on what Deputy CAO Clark Bush says but I'll

56:50let this stand for now as it is. Okay that's it I think everyone wraps it so thank you for that

56:57Mayor Guthrie so far I have questions from Councillor Caron and Councillor Oltt any other

57:01questions on this no okay I'll go over to you go ahead thank you Chair Goller and I guess it's a

57:07question to the mover and I hope it's friendly one of the lines says including one of the things

57:11that isn't included in there is that I think makes a good review is best practice comparison to other

57:18municipalities and I wondered whether that should be included in the review or whether staff would

57:24automatically include that in a review as a matter of process or whether you need direction from

57:29council to include it. Yeah I thought maybe it was maybe captured in the wording that says potential

57:37additional services that those that phrase would allow them to look at best practices but I'm not

57:43sure maybe staff should answer that because if it's required I'm happy to go with you on that.

57:47Please go ahead the PDCO. Through the chair I think we hear the sentiment and we recognize that we

57:53would typically do best practice review anyways but here in this discussion we would certainly include

57:57that. Thank you Councillor Caron I'll go over to Councillor Oltt go ahead Phil. Thank you Chair

58:05Guller actually Mayor Guthrie answered my question in his response. No other questions then to the

58:14motion on the table on the floor then I'll call the vote all those against the motion please raise

58:21your hands. Seeing none it passes unanimously. Thank you Mayor Guthrie and thank you Councillor

58:28Bousatil for bringing that forward. With no other items I will just look to see if there are any

58:35service area announcements I think nothing else besides what we've covered so we're good thank

58:41you so much for coming and for bringing the the audit for 2026. I'll turn this over to Councillor

58:49Caron now. Welcome everyone we are now sitting as the corporate services and offers of the CAO

59:28committee and I have one item on the agenda I have both the privilege and the curse of having

59:34about the most uncomfortable agenda item that we deal with once every four years. You know just as

59:41a preamble I know this is a it can be a politicized topic we're not here to talk about the value of the

59:47role of a Councillor but about the compensation and I'm going to open I will have our two delegations

59:53this afternoon but I'm going to ask DCAO O'Brien to give some introductory comments about this

59:58agenda item. Thanks. Thank you very much Chair Caron and through you to council I've got my

1:00:04colleagues from HR Mr our general manager Mr Andy and staff will join as Councillor Caron

1:00:11Chair Caron noted we we simply are taking the direction from staff in terms of or from Council

1:00:16sorry in terms of the policy approach that is laid out which is to say a set comparative list

1:00:21and the application of what we call a p-line or a percentage line. We're happy in in a position

1:00:26following delegates to answer any questions you might have in regards to different analyses however

1:00:31I would just caution Council just briefly that depending on the level of the analysis it may be

1:00:36more prudent for direction to come to staff to then report back at a future date in terms of

1:00:40changes to a policy approach. We're certainly willing to entertain that we know the the the

1:00:46nuances and the and the challenges with with this matter that's before council and so we're

1:00:50happy to answer any questions as we we move through the discussion with you. Thanks so much

1:00:54Chair Caron. Thank you DCAO O'Brien. We have had one delegate withdraws we have one delegate

1:01:00remaining this afternoon and it's Alec so if Alec is here come on up. Welcome to the podium

1:01:12as I think you may know there's five minutes on the clock for you to present at about the 32nd

1:01:18mark you'll hear a little ping don't let that panic you you still have another 30 minutes to wrap up

1:01:24thanks so much for coming to share your share your thoughts today and the floor is yours.

1:01:29Okay thank you very much I know this could be a testy issue and my intention is not to do that

1:01:34at all but I just wanted to lay out some basic facts and things that I have a concern with

1:01:39and a lot of people that I've talked with over the last week or so. Before I start I'd like to

1:01:43be able to quote from a French philosopher Walter it says in general the Arctic government consists

1:01:49of taking as much money from one class of citizens to give to another. On this date four years ago

1:01:57is city councilors were making $41,412 on the state four years ago. Today four years later

1:02:07is we're having a discussion about raising the salary to $70,218. That's an increase of four years

1:02:17of 69.56% roughly 70% wage increase in four years time. That's a little bit of a concern.

1:02:28The other thing as well is that regarding as far as today is that four years ago

1:02:35we had the same kind of discussion about a 25% raise and the argument of that is well other

1:02:42municipalities have increased their salaries and so we need to be able to increase ours in order to

1:02:48keep up and be compatible with other municipalities. So what ended up happening other municipalities

1:02:56raised their raises four years ago said okay well we have to increase ours by 25% so that we're

1:03:02compatible and that we're providing fair equity as far as to our counselors. Sounds good but now

1:03:09we're in the same position four years later is that those same municipalities now that we had

1:03:14caught up to them they're saying hey wealth is basically caught up to us we're a bigger municipality

1:03:20whatever we're going to increase our salaries so now we're playing the game again that okay we need

1:03:26to catch up so this time it's 33%. It's a game of cat and mouse and the concerns that I have are

1:03:34basically twofold as first of all it seems to be the mentality of having to keep up with other

1:03:40municipalities not based on the work not based on how much time because I know that with the reports

1:03:46and everything coming in that counselors again the two that I've talked with anyway and just

1:03:53even myself going through a lot of reports is that you are putting in more time. It is you know

1:03:59previously it might have been 12 20-year hours a week now for some it's going between 20, 25

1:04:09it's sometimes it's more than that sometimes less than that but you're putting in more hours

1:04:14and you should be compensated for that but concern that I have again is in four years time from 2022

1:04:22on this date to today discussing the pay raises it's roughly 70% increase. Now the second thing

1:04:31that I would like to say about that is that a couple of different people have suggested okay

1:04:36you're not voting for yourselves you're voting for the future council okay that sounds good but the

1:04:43only concerns I have with that is who is going to be the future council we don't know how do we

1:04:49know that their track record is going to be good that they're going to be most beneficial for city

1:04:54we don't know what's their attendance record we don't know but you're voting a 30% increase

1:05:01for a future council that we don't know the track record usually when you hire somebody

1:05:10is you and you're going to give them a raise it's based on their merit on their performance all these

1:05:15different factors come into it but we have this mentality right now that we're given a 30% raise

1:05:20to a future group of people that have no possible track record or anything that's a concern. Now

1:05:29just the other couple of things as well in closing is the fact that you know we've had rising property

1:05:35taxes food banks are increasing at an enormous amount we had store closures we have a lot of layoffs

1:05:42that are happening now across the city we've had you know you guys struggling with the budget

1:05:47and telling different departments they need to make some cuts you're tightening their belts but you

1:05:52yourselves that's not happening. Just a couple of other things as well is the fact that in closing

1:06:02is that the residents is that you know they're concerned about what's happening in today's economy

1:06:09and you're telling them they need to pay more they need to tighten their belts but the suggestion

1:06:15I would like to make to you guys is that okay lead by example if you guys are able to lead by example

1:06:23tighten your belts and even this matter this would have a huge impact and it would send a

1:06:30positive message you know coming this time. Thanks perfect timing right on the right on the dot.

1:06:38Any questions for the delegate? Councillor Busuttil. Thank you and through you Chair Caron

1:06:49to Mr. Perse. Mr. Perse thanks for your delegation I heard you speak a lot about the role of

1:06:55Councillors and it's not specific about any Councillors it's about the role. You didn't

1:07:01speak at all about the role of the mayor and this report recommends a 10% increase to the role of

1:07:09the mayor which I will speak to when I have an opportunity. Do you have any thoughts on that?

1:07:14Well the mayor we only have one one mayor and 10% to me is above the cost of living but it's not

1:07:24really that unreasonable but as far as council itself is a 25% increase and then a 33% increase

1:07:35that you know that sort of riled me up a little bit when I saw that. The other thing as well is

1:07:41that if you go ahead with this increase in the next four years City Council will be paying

1:07:50it will be our the taxpayer will be paying three million three hundred seventy thousand four hundred

1:07:58sixty four dollars to combine 12 members of council for the next four years the next term

1:08:06that's the amount of money that we're paying. Again council does great work and I know they're

1:08:14putting in more hours now than they have in the past and that's all positive but a 33% increase

1:08:22just give you one picture visualize we're talking 33% increase last week a few feet away

1:08:31we had people in the lobby that were sleeping on the floor and on benches

1:08:37and yet we're here discussing on recommendation of keeping up with other municipalities that

1:08:45I just cannot put the two together I'm struggling with that and I would love you know personally

1:08:52to be able to talk with every one of you individually to sit down discuss and maybe you could give me

1:08:58some insight about why but right now I don't see it. Thank you thank you. Any other questions for the

1:09:05delegation? Okay seeing none thank you so much for coming forward. We have Councillor Allt.

1:09:15Thank you Chair Caron in order to explain this I will be I will put the motion on the floor

1:09:26and make my comments now if I have a seconder. Okay do we have a seconder? We have Councillor Goller

1:09:33seconding that motion and thanks that that moves the process forward so the recommendations on

1:09:38their floor. There are two recommendations so I'm going to open it up for questions to staff

1:09:45and and as we usually do in committee the whole questions and comments so I'll start a speakers

1:09:50list. Councillor Goller and put your hand up if you would like to speak. Who's it to you? Yeah okay

1:09:59floor's yours. Thank you through you Chair Caron. I do have a motion that I sent in advance that I

1:10:05want to move but if you want there to be other questions before we table motions I will defer

1:10:09to you. I think so questions first and the reason for that is that once your motion's on the floor

1:10:16we can only speak to that motion and we I think we need to clear the air on some of the other

1:10:21so I do have Councillor Allt, Councillor Boussatiel. Thank you very much Chair Caron.

1:10:29First thing I will make my comments now and I think that we are in a rather challenging

1:10:35position as a consequence of this not being determined by a nonpartisan citizens committee

1:10:42and I do believe that was a mistake. I think that this creates a significant change in optics

1:10:48that it looks like council is indeed creating a raise for themselves or ourselves or however you

1:10:54wish to put it. As much as I say that I would also like to ask staff we are here we heard numbers

1:11:06of about three and a half million dollars I believe and I was wondering if we could please

1:11:11identify what this raise would do to the annual budget and really what is the increase

1:11:21from currently to next year in terms of a number of a dollar value as well.

1:11:33Perhaps I'll start and through you Chair Caron the the tax impact has been calculated and we've

1:11:39noted it that it's about 0.08% based on the recommendations that are before council the

1:11:45the actual quantum and dollar amount of that 0.0% I might defer to my HR colleagues

1:11:52but in the report we did note it's 0.08% for the impact on the on the tax rate.

1:12:03Thank you and if one of your colleagues could provide the actual dollar value of that increase

1:12:09that would be appreciated. So it's to the chair through the chair to Councillor Allt

1:12:16the cost inclusive of the benefits for the upcoming year will be 271,133.

1:12:25And that is inclusive of mayor and councillors is that correct? That's correct.

1:12:32Thank you I have no further questions at this point Councillor Caron. I think my comments speak

1:12:38for themselves I think we acted in error last year by removing the citizens committee determinants.

1:12:45Great thank you I have Councillor Boussetteel next.

1:12:48Thank you Chair Caron and I'd like to just speak to the first recommendation which is the 10.1%

1:12:57for the mayor. I also want to say very clearly I'm not interested in becoming a mayor and this

1:13:04isn't about our current mayor I'm not speaking about Mayor Guthrie but I do want to I do want to

1:13:11support this and when it comes to a vote if we can separate the two motions I do want to support

1:13:17this in my previous kind of public education school board experience executive compensation.

1:13:25I do think that this amount of increase is really quite reasonable and I had the opportunity to

1:13:32look at you know secondary elementary principles with pay raises of our pays of 169,000 to 182,000

1:13:42and when I was reflecting this again not speaking about Mayor Guthrie but my experience through

1:13:48the Association of Municipalities Federation of Canadian Municipalities locally I just feel that

1:13:55the complexity of the role of mayor since we were sworn in the day after has just just exploded.

1:14:04Services are complex dealing with mental health homelessness we heard from the delegation

1:14:10and dealing with issues at local provincial even things like economic development tariffs and so on

1:14:15local provincial national and even international and so you know politicians speak to politicians

1:14:23and so I will be supporting recommendation number one.

1:14:29Okay thank you Councillor Bousatiel so any further questions put your hands up I don't see any other

1:14:34questions. Councillor Caton sorry all yours Councillor Caton.

1:14:42Thank you through you chair, Karan to staff I don't know if you're gonna have this information

1:14:48off hand but I know it happened at least once last year or last term. How many times has the

1:14:55recommendation come up and council voted to decrease the amount for councillors and for the

1:15:04mayor like when the suggested amount was higher and then council voted for a lower amount.

1:15:12Through you chair Caron yeah and appreciate the the precursor there Councillor Caton about

1:15:19not having that detail exactly at our fingertips I think it's an acknowledgement that council does

1:15:24it's a challenging spot to be in for council and staff we certainly empathize so we've seen

1:15:28moments where for example members of council have asked for like a pause or a freeze on on

1:15:33council increases we've seen instances in the past where council has decided or has received

1:15:40recommendations from staff and that you know have instead intended or decided to take a lesser amount

1:15:48than than what was recommended through the the application of the policies that the council

1:15:52sets and so it can vary Councillor Caton it can really depends on really term of council

1:15:59and and perhaps also the the nuances that you're considering now further to Councillor

1:16:02Bucell to this point the the complexity of the issues before you and and such so

1:16:07it has varied over time Councillor Caton to answer your question.

1:16:11Thank you I just it just makes me think that we're kind of in the salary equivalent of an

1:16:16Emma to Earl Street Bridge situation where if the ones in the past had been initiated then it

1:16:22wouldn't be such a big jump but because it's been going such a long time the jump looks large thanks.

1:16:32Yeah I mean in answer to your question I believe the last ever council in 2022 the recommendation

1:16:36was higher and council lowered it for obviously for community input and other reasons so

1:16:43any other questions on the current motion because I believe Councillor Goller you are going to bring

1:16:49forward a different motion if it is contrary to the main motion we may need to put a hold on that

1:16:57and vote on the motion that's on the floor and have that fail before you we can table your motion

1:17:02but I'm not sure of the exact wording so you go ahead.

1:17:05Thank you and through you Chair Caron I have reached out to the clerks and I will ask them if we can

1:17:13do a motion by substitution to introduce the motion that that would substitute number one

1:17:19and two or if we have to vote down the motions on the floor so if and just as a precursor what I

1:17:27intend to do the motion is to to to acknowledge that that we have a policy I think the policy

1:17:33that we have in place does not strike a correct balance for the recommendation of the increase

1:17:40I think it works perfectly well for our management team because we are competing against other GTA

1:17:46municipalities but when we look at that list of municipalities I feel that that it doesn't provide

1:17:52an accurate comparator for the workload and the responsibility that we have here at the

1:17:58City of Welf as council members so my my intention is to not give direction to not have any increase

1:18:08apart from the inflationary cost of living increase that we would see on a year to year

1:18:13so I'll ask the clerk can I table this a substitution or do we have to vote down what's on the floor

1:18:21thank you sorry I will defer to the clerk for an opinion and I think I know the answer but it's

1:18:27always good to have a device from our clerks yeah and thank you chair Cronin through you to to

1:18:32council um it would be my recommendation to deal with the current motion that's already moved and

1:18:37seconded it is the the motion that we have from Councillor Goller is contradictory to that so

1:18:42we could table that as a subsequent motion if this motion were to fail thank you and I concur

1:18:47that unless it's a deferral or a referral back to staff it is contrary to what is on the floor so

1:18:53we would need to fail the current motion first and then we will table table your motion

1:18:58so any discussion on the motions that are on the floor we've had a request to uh to separate them

1:19:07Councillor Caitlin you had your hand up any other comments okay Councillor Caitlin

1:19:14thank you just a moment I got notes all right um so I feel that this is not a part-time job

1:19:23if you show up to every meeting answer every email we get all the posted material have

1:19:28side staff discussions trying to get motions improvements together sit on outside boards and

1:19:32side boards reply on social media go to community events and immerse yourself actively in the

1:19:37community engagement counselors who do the less are paid the same as counselors who do it all

1:19:42and so I can imagine that to the public it would seem like we're overpaid depending on their experience

1:19:47this term we've had way more daytime meetings through equity decisions to respect religious

1:19:52timelines for fasting and prayer we've had a dramatic increase in special meetings additional

1:19:56budget meetings because the provincial changes to that process plus surprise meetings to deal

1:20:01with constant turn of provincial legislation we've only had one august without meetings despite that

1:20:06having been the expectation if we're going to go based on previous community uh committee meetings

1:20:12on how many hours this job requires to do properly then it needs to be revised to fit the new reality

1:20:19as one of the counselors who does this job to the max capacity I can say that it's not sustainable

1:20:24at the current pay I don't even think that the staff suggested pay is adequate because it's not

1:20:28really a part-time job the benefits package for council has a yearly cap of 500 for physical

1:20:33therapy 500 for massage 500 for osteopathy and 500 for psychotherapy with a disability like mine

1:20:42that'll get you maybe two months tops if we vote for keeping the pay at the current level

1:20:49we're voting for it to be austerity pay it's only economically feasible if to hold this job if you're

1:20:56retired with savings or a pension if you're single with limited expenses or the secondary

1:21:01income in a family with my constellation of equity labels I'm a frequent target for

1:21:06for misinformation campaigns and expected to pay for personal lawyers I am the head of my household

1:21:13and I was a single mom for most of my term all of my family members have disabilities

1:21:18it's unaffordable without financial privilege we tell people their lived experiences are not worth

1:21:25a 0.8 percent increase and they either need to pretzelin more jobs to make ends meet or have a

1:21:31full time on job a full-time job on top phone it in show up to one out of three meetings and call it

1:21:37a day I don't think that's acceptable representation for our residents or sustainable for those who

1:21:43have to work twice as hard to participate in democracy it does not stand up to our commitment

1:21:49to equity as a council so I hope you all support the pay increase thank you thanks you councillor

1:21:57kate any further commentary um councillor goller uh thank you and three short chron I I do not

1:22:04disagree with councillor Kate's comments I do believe that that there is room to to look at

1:22:11the equity lens I think unfortunately our policy simply looks at the 55th percentile without looking

1:22:18at those other issues I think something that we will need to do is revisit the the compensation

1:22:25four years ago in 2021 there was a recommendation from consultants with a lot of community feedback

1:22:31that recommended that we go to eight full-time councillors unfortunately the council of the

1:22:36time voted against it with with with me being the the sole member still on council that that

1:22:42voted against keeping the two councillors per word and 12 councillors I think we need to revisit

1:22:49that decision I think it is a full-time job for for for those of us that that put in the time

1:22:55um but I think that we need to do that properly not because the 55th percentile came with this

1:23:01number because we're intentionally working to make this position more accessible to members from

1:23:08all economic classes in our community so I would be looking for the the next room of council to

1:23:14have a another council composition review to make that decision so I will ask my council

1:23:20colleagues to vote against what is effectively a 33 percent pay increase for this position between

1:23:27this term of council and the next term of council and then the next term of council can can get staff

1:23:33to do the work and we can have another review and and maybe reshape how the the positions are are made

1:23:40up thank you uh councillor downer I just I have a can I have a question for staff sort of this

1:23:48has come up so through you chair I remember in our last time that we looked at this that actually

1:23:54the municipal act doesn't say whether it's full-time or part-time it just talks about the role of a

1:24:00councillor it's us that put that construct on it as a full-time or part-time it's the roles of what

1:24:07the duties are in in the job description is that not right through you chair Caron yeah councillor

1:24:12your spot on the act does spell out sort of broad based I would even say like thematic

1:24:18responsibilities for members of council it does not delineate between a full-time or a part-time

1:24:24we know that members of council on this council and indeed across the province some have

1:24:28occupations outside of their role as a as a member of council some of those occupations would

1:24:33require 35 or 40 hour work weeks and the the the reality is is I believe in as you've all experienced

1:24:39more so than I have is that you make this role as you see fit and quite frankly I would I would

1:24:44argue that as your constituents deem appropriate of you and and that's that's evaluated on a

1:24:49four-year cycle when elections come up but to your question councillor downer no delineation

1:24:54in the municipal act with respect to full-time versus part-time and in fact even our delineation

1:25:00in the staff report is is an estimation we attempted to do that to offer a little bit more

1:25:04granularity of the data for council as you consider this this matter

1:25:10so for me like and this is always a a controversial one and I can't think of a time

1:25:19when we haven't all said oh we don't like this response so we don't like what the committee

1:25:23said are we and the last time okay we don't want the committee doing it because every time we get

1:25:27a recommendations from these committees we we change them and we've done that the last two

1:25:33times and so we said okay well let's have staff been forward to recommendation and let's look up

1:25:39you know at this way and so we do that and again we're sort of saying oh no no no let's not do that

1:25:44so I'm I'm just um you know the role has significantly changed and it to me it's it's not

1:25:53even so much the time as much as the responsibility and the uh the and and how in order to be accountable

1:26:05how much more educated you have to be to be in this role around the issues that you're debating

1:26:11and talking about that it just doesn't come from staff reports but you have to be aware

1:26:15and in so many other ways and how we become more involved in provincial matters more than just

1:26:23municipal matters um so I I've sort of been back and forth on this but I think I'm gonna I'm gonna

1:26:29support the recommendation just just on principle I I just think the role it's not full-time or part-time

1:26:35it is how much we all decide to put into it but those demands and those expectations and those

1:26:42accountability the accountability has significantly increased over the last five to six years uh in

1:26:48my estimation and you know it's it's very difficult for those with other full-time jobs to do the

1:26:56job that you know the same the justice and I know many do that do have full-time jobs they they

1:27:02they work on it as hard as they they can but I think it's I think I think you know listening to

1:27:08to what Councillor Caton says if we want to change and and have more equity around and equitable

1:27:16representation in the community I think we have to you know be real about what the job really is

1:27:22because I I don't think I don't think we do I think and I think um unfortunately I think

1:27:29even some in the community still think that it should be a kind of a volunteer job or something

1:27:33that and don't really understand the role as well and and we buy into that if you keep doing this

1:27:38every time this comes up every four years under underestimating the value of the position

1:27:46okay thank you Councillor Downer um I think we've had all comments and questions so I'm going to

1:27:51oh we've got Councillor Busatel yes thank you uh Chair Caron I would agree with uh Councillor

1:27:58Downer about the changed roles much more complex much more involved in not only provincial but

1:28:04federal level of uh decisions and advocacy and so on again thank you for separating the mayor

1:28:12versus Councillor I'm struggling more with the Councillors and it's that 33 percent I absolutely

1:28:18agree with Councillor uh um Kate and and equity I'm struggling with how to get there and I do

1:28:25appreciate that this is Committee of the Whole and so how I decide now may change before the you

1:28:32know the end of the month with some additional information and so on but I would like to support

1:28:39recommendation number one and then um you know I need a little bit more time with recommendation

1:28:45number two but I may keep it active okay thank you Councillor Busatel okay we've been around a few

1:28:51times oh we've got Councillor Billings is there anyone else who wants to speak to that on this

1:28:55matter uh Councillor Billings them so I totally agree Madam Mayor we um sorry Madam Chair with

1:29:02Councillor Goller um we definitely need a policy change uh looking at the comparative list there

1:29:09there are areas that to me should should not be part of what we're looking at for analysis

1:29:17and so I'll just speak to the mayor's position when you take a look at our neighboring municipalities

1:29:25the mayor's pay is in line with those in fact it's not in the report but even if you take a look at

1:29:32the City of London it's a large very large city and that mayor is making less than the Mayor of the

1:29:39City of Guelph so I will not be supporting to increase the mayor's pay and as far as the same

1:29:47thing for members of council if you take a look at other single-tier municipalities like Barrie

1:29:53and Bramford um those councillors are making far less than the City of Guelph councillors so again

1:30:00look at our neighboring municipalities and and we are again in in line so at this time and and also

1:30:09because of the economics of the day um I agree with Councillor Goller and will not be supporting

1:30:15the pay increases okay thank you Councillor Billings um Mayor Guthrie did you say you do

1:30:20want to speak to it okay we are finally going to get to call the vote we have had Councillor

1:30:27Boussatil ask for separation uh so the first recommendation is regarding the salary for the

1:30:33mayor so I'll ask for anyone who is opposed one two three four five six seven eight nine

1:30:45so we have nine so that recommendation fails and we will ask for recommendation number two which

1:30:54is the salary for the position of city council uh any opposed five six seven eight opposed so that

1:31:09also fails so I'm going to turn to you Councillor Goller I believe you had a recommendation of no

1:31:15action which leaves it at a zero percent change from the current um yes to to you chair Caron

1:31:24if I could ask the clerks to please pull up the the motion uh the salaries for the position of

1:31:30mayor and council be maintained at the 2026 current rate for the 2026 to 2030 term of office

1:31:37subject to the annual inflationary increases equal to the non-union municipal employee

1:31:42economic increase approved as part of future council budget deliberations and I believe that

1:31:47Mayor Guthrie said that he wanted to second uh this motion and just check it in if he's still

1:31:54interested. Mayor Guthrie you're being asked if you'd like to second that okay okay sorry I'll just

1:32:01convert um thank you and just uh through through clarity if I if I could ask from from our HR team

1:32:09the the non-union municipal employee that does that work out to be about what three percent per

1:32:14year is that historically what we'd be looking at so through the chair to Councillor Goller

1:32:19it's been between two and three percent typically speaking okay thank you very much I really appreciate

1:32:26uh the the support and I'm happy to answer any questions about this okay so put your hands up

1:32:32members of council if you'd like to speak to this uh Councillor Gibson okay yeah thank you

1:32:42through chair I um I apologize of all things I was had this conflict with my regular

1:32:48employee job because the time start for this for this meeting today so I didn't get a really

1:32:52talk that chance to speak to the last motion but I knew how I was voting when I arrived today

1:32:57in terms of this motion I thank Councillor Goller for bringing it forward with the economic

1:33:04the economic place that our community is in I really feel that we should be holding the line

1:33:11on our own salaries the way I've always felt about the position is that it's a service position

1:33:16that should be a sacrifice of time and effort and energy for those who want to serve you serve

1:33:21with the privilege of your of your constituents and only at the pleasure of your constituents

1:33:27and they hold you accountable every four years so the the idea of sacrificing something of yourself

1:33:33to serve in the role is something that is still an honorable sort of characteristic of a councillor

1:33:40and so with that the pay is always secondary it should never be a position of privilege

1:33:45when it comes to salaries to serve on council that's my position that's how I've always felt

1:33:50about the position so I thank Councillor Goller for bringing it forward I also thank

1:33:55Mayor Guthrie for seconding I had volunteered to second but I was glad to hear there was already

1:33:58a seconder thanks very much we have Councillor Allt thank you very much chair crown as with

1:34:07perspective the first motion I won't be supporting this one because this is a governance issue for

1:34:12me I think that the way that we have brought this forward is problematic I believe that we

1:34:18should reconsider a citizens committee and further I think that there there might be other parameters

1:34:25that we need to provide which is it's either take it or leave it and no amendment coming from that

1:34:31particular committee I do remember that there was a great deal of upset from that committee last

1:34:37year when we played with the numbers or last third last term I think it's problematic for

1:34:44anybody on council to be looking like they are giving him her or their selves raises

1:34:52and so consequently because it's a governance issue for me I cannot support this I would point out

1:34:58that yes we do serve at the at the behest of the constituents but so does our member of parliament

1:35:06prime minister and our member of provincial parliament councillor Klassen yes thank you

1:35:17for your chair perhaps this is not the appropriate time but councillor Goller made mention of another

1:35:23review potentially with the next term of council to look at the process in which

1:35:33councillors are both compensated and also the composition of council I know that there was a

1:35:38report prior to I think it was the previous term of council that looked at it at the composition of

1:35:43council I just want to go back to something that councillor downer said with regard to

1:35:50the position of of counts of what a councillor is from my perspective and in line with the

1:35:56municipal act the role of a councillor is a role it's not really part-time or full-time

1:36:02and so I think when looking at how to best serve the community I think that we need to look in

1:36:07depth at at the role itself and perhaps how how how it's being served and so I think and and perhaps

1:36:17if it's in in I'm not sure but based on my colleagues councillor all I might not support the

1:36:26motion because I prefer to see a review done in the next term of council where where everything is

1:36:35considered holistically rather than looking at at you know kind of at parts of of what of what is

1:36:44happening you know is is a cost of living increase good enough or not and so if perhaps if you would

1:36:56maybe I would either make an amendment or perhaps at a secondary emotion I I'm not sure about timing

1:37:04I can maybe quickly type something out yeah let's okay if you've got something in mind that's an

1:37:11amendment to to zero take no action um by all means if it's contrary to the motion again we're back

1:37:20to where we were before is it was all now we're at a motion of nothing so if we would have to fail

1:37:26the motion of nothing to put a motion of something on the floor does that make sense to everyone we

1:37:31have to fail the zero uh motion and then propose another alternative not knowing what your potential

1:37:38is so if this perhaps fails then I will no uh give me one moment let me let me uh think it through

1:37:47for a second I'm with that okay would everyone like a five minute bathroom break while the wording

1:37:53I mean or alternative staff um we're doing a motion of all and a that failed and now a motion of

1:38:00nothing that failed if there is a moment for councillor classon to bring forward an amendment

1:38:06that is not contrary then we can give her a moment I was seeing. Chair Cronnell defer to you in terms

1:38:12of like a recess but as we've observed so council has defeated them the staff recommended motions

1:38:18you've now got councillor Gallar's motion on the floor which is effectively uh akin economic

1:38:23increases for member of count members of council across the the future term there's certainly

1:38:28an option to councillor classon's question in regards to is there a natural junction point

1:38:33coming in the future where we might evaluate um quite a quite a broad range of factors but

1:38:41uh the council ward bound review is something that we did commit to coming back to uh as part of a

1:38:47touch point in this coming term of council that would be in place for 2030's term of council

1:38:53that could include and if there was a wish at this point you could direct staff to not only

1:38:58complete that ward bound review but also roll in similar to what we saw to councillor Gallar's

1:39:04commentary in 2020 when we presented a sort of a council composition and ward bound review

1:39:10that type of review could be again ward boundary the composition of council which is to say

1:39:15as best in articulation as possible on full time versus part time that review could also

1:39:20carry with it an analysis and we would work I would foresee that the city clerk's office working

1:39:24with the HR team to ensure that there's also an analysis of compensation remuneration for members

1:39:29of council at that time as well and so we do have that docketed as a work plan item in the 2026 to

1:39:362030 term in order to set up a process but if you wanted to give us very specific additional direction

1:39:42to say in addition to simply a ward bound review also revisit that council composition consideration

1:39:49and as part of that contemplate full time part time remuneration etc that could also be done and I

1:39:55think that might be getting at what you're looking to do councillor classon. Okay so councillor

1:39:59classon still has the floor I did have hands go up from uh Kate and Chu and Boussatil but you still

1:40:07have the floor um right now the motion is regarding compensation if your amendment is about that it's

1:40:15in order if it's an amendment about that might be supplementary giving direction to staff following

1:40:23the compensation decision I'll leave that to you to put on the floor and then we can determine where

1:40:28the motion bests lands in terms of our governance process have the floor. Thank you um may I ask

1:40:39a question of clarity um with regard to the 2026 2030 review process um when what is that just a

1:40:48rough timeline it's just for the next term of council to to review. Through uh Chair Caron yes so

1:40:55we would embark upon that I would suggest at some point in the midpoint of this next term

1:40:59so that the work can be done because it is an expansive piece of work we did embark on a pretty

1:41:04expansive project that started in 2020 as an example and then in about 2022 now we did have a

1:41:12significant global event that slowed some things down during that time um but yeah it would it would

1:41:17be a project we would embark on through the sort of the midpoint of this next term so that

1:41:21council would be set to make a decision upon that which would then impact and influence 2030 to 2034

1:41:29as term of council. Thank you and one more um as far as the composition and salary component

1:41:38was that something that I would we would need to provide direction on to include in the boundary

1:41:42review? Through you Chair Caron at this point that level of clarity is certainly appreciated it gives

1:41:48us a good scope and a good understanding of what council's intentions at this point for for that next

1:41:53term's body of work yes. And just as as an aside if if the motion is related to that we also have

1:42:00a motion that was emailed to us by Councillor Caton as an excess as a supplementary motion

1:42:07once the compensation um a vote has occurred. And through you Chair that maybe the may perhaps

1:42:14Councillor Caton's motion is is sort of addresses what Councillor Klassen is looking to to speak to

1:42:19as well. So again Councillor Klassen the floor is still yours did you want me to move to questions

1:42:26or did you have an amendment? No I think this um I I just might I guess then my question I'm so sorry

1:42:32a process question with regard to this specific motion it can pass and this other motion that

1:42:41Caten has brought forward they can exist at the same time. Correct okay thank you okay.

1:42:45So the motion on the floor right now is related to take no action on the increase that's the

1:42:52motion that's on the floor. So I have um Councillor Caton and Councillor Chew with their hands up

1:42:58speaking only to this motion. Councillor Caton. I was just going to be talking about point of

1:43:07order but the last situation because I had my motion on the books already so I'm good. Okay Councillor

1:43:14Chu. Okay through you Madam Chair I guess for me like the issue isn't so much whether we should

1:43:24further compensate ourselves because I I do believe in the principle that pays kind of signal

1:43:30of the responsibility that we have and we do carry a huge fiduciary responsibility of millions of

1:43:36dollars worth of city assets and like I think it's a huge responsibility that comes with the

1:43:42position of being you know like the member and I think the pay is kind of the signal of that

1:43:49and it kind of eliminates any idea of an ethical behavior and misconduct as well and I think the

1:43:57pay is it's symbolic to that. For me the issue really comes down to the the timing and it seems

1:44:04like historically it's always been in the last quarter of the term of council and I understand

1:44:10the principle of that as well that we're setting the pay for the next council but I just wonder if

1:44:15it's possible for us to get staff to do the work to look at the pay increase but have the next council

1:44:23actually decide on it and that way because it's an election year you know it could be settled

1:44:30you know at the doorstep and then further the next council can decide whether to take action or

1:44:36not based on their convictions but I think this decision by nature is always going to be very

1:44:42polarizing so it's just not appropriate to have it during an election year but I wonder if it could

1:44:48be it could happen during the beginning of the term of the next council and but the work the

1:44:53leg of work is already undertaken by staff from this direction that will pass so I just wonder if

1:45:01staff can maybe speak to that if it's logistically even possible to conceive something of this

1:45:07sort of direction I'll let staff address that I believe the timing that we currently use is in

1:45:14policy so again we would have to change the policy I believe the policy says in the year proceeding

1:45:20the the new term of council and in your commentary Councillor Chew you talked about

1:45:27making a decision about ourselves so just want to correct that whatever we decide today will not

1:45:32impact this council it will impact the next council um whoever that maybe maybe some of us

1:45:40maybe none of us capital and staff address the timing through you Councillor Caron to

1:45:45Councillor Chew's questions and I think your commentary was spot on in terms of the policy

1:45:50it's also I would suggest best practice to your point Councillor Caron that that no one term of

1:45:55council is determining their own compensation it is from a previous term of council that then sets

1:46:00that for a future state it's in the same keeping with the decision that or the recommendation and

1:46:06motion that's on the floor under Councillor Gallagher's motion is for the future term of council

1:46:10being 2026 to 2030 and then we would carry out the work of a more broader body of work subject to

1:46:18I believe Councillor Cain's motion that might come forward to then inform what would be in place for

1:46:22the 2030 to 2034 term. Thank you and that's really where my commentary to end would have been is that

1:46:29that if we make the decision now to set the base rate at at zero increase it will not we will not

1:46:36have another opportunity not we even the next term of council won't have another opportunity to review

1:46:41it until about four years approximately four years from now so this is setting the rate for the next

1:46:47four years until that review is is potentially done so any further comments and we'll call the vote on

1:46:55on the I saw Councillor Chew did your hand go back up again yeah just to yeah I think thank you

1:47:03through you Madam Chair um yeah I guess maybe I can take this so I just want to stay on the record

1:47:08too I'd like to kind of take it away and with staff to discuss some options because I really do think

1:47:15that the principle of us setting the the rate for the next term of council is only it's only

1:47:20going to continue to push this conversation further back because I think we have to acknowledge the

1:47:26politics around this and the optics and the optics in my opinion is too hard to overcome some of the

1:47:32practical realities of the evolving role of mayor and council so I think there's a so like I'd like

1:47:38to take it away and kind of take a look but in principle I just don't think it's appropriate

1:47:44right now that we set the set the pay increase so that's just my conflict in my mind I thought I'd

1:47:51just share with all of us so that we can maybe further spell self-reflect as a working group so

1:47:58yeah that's all I have to say thank you thanks so we will don't see any other hands we're going to

1:48:05call the vote on Councillor Goller's motion which is to take no action and keep the base pay at zero

1:48:12for the next term of council is there anyone opposed to that motion

1:48:18Councillor Allt, Councillor Klassen, Councillor Downer, Councillor Hauser

1:48:24so that and and Councillor Cate so that is five five so that passes yeah okay we have supplementary

1:48:40motions that have come forward via email so I will give Councillor Cate in the floor I believe your

1:48:46motion is lined up for our consideration thank you so just very much like Councillor Klassen

1:49:00was bringing up and I kind of touched upon when I was referring to Councillor Goller's motion

1:49:08um we've we've had a lot of changes in the last year and that includes increased growth

1:49:15mandated by the province changes in density in a lot of different areas different zoning and

1:49:22Guelph as it was in the last council composition review and board review is not out how it is

1:49:28and how it's going to be so I think it's warranted that we do another review of that

1:49:36and so my motion is that the city clerk be directed in advance of the 2030 municipal election

1:49:41to conduct a ward boundary and council composition review including a review of pay and benefits for

1:49:48elected officials subject to the provision of funding in the 2028 budget and you have a seconder

1:49:55yes that's Councillor Hauser okay um and uh questions or comments Councillor Gibson

1:50:03Councillor Klassen yeah thank you um I remember this conversation from I think my first term of

1:50:08council and I don't think it's wrong to put a placeholder um in the 2028 budget as a decision

1:50:14point to fund this type of study so I'm happy to support um my only my only creeping thought in my

1:50:22own head is that things haven't changed that much in the last four years at the rate at which we're

1:50:25getting homeless built and started in this city I would argue that the the council composite the

1:50:31council composition and the the dynamics of our growth as the city have uh sped to a halt uh by

1:50:38by and large so I'm not sure the council if it was happening next year I'm not sure the

1:50:42ward boundary review would be something I support but um I'm not going to try and crystal ball out

1:50:46to 2028 at this point so I'm happy to put a placeholder in for a recommendation budget to consider it

1:50:54thanks um and Councillor Klassen uh yes and thank you to um Councillor Caighton for bringing

1:51:03this forward and I apologize that I I hadn't seen the email in advance and so I just wanted to thank

1:51:09you for bringing this forward because I think this is the way to look at at this type of um

1:51:16issue for lack of a better word um I didn't make my this comment earlier but I think that I'll make

1:51:23it now I just wanted to appreciate uh Councillor Caighton's vulnerabilities uh when when speaking

1:51:29about councillor compensation it is difficult to to be vulnerable in this space it is exceptionally

1:51:37challenging and when I think about the types of people that I hope will be around the horseshoe

1:51:43in the future I think about um I think about students who are graduating and who may not

1:51:50have the same socioeconomic backgrounds or privileges as many of the people who sit around

1:51:55this horseshoe and I hope that when we're looking at things like this we're sort of removing our

1:52:00own biases and thinking about those potential humans who would like to be here making changes

1:52:06because their ideas are also valuable and super important um and they may not be able to secure

1:52:12a seat around this table um because they do have to think about financial compensation

1:52:17in order to grow and um build their lives and so when I when I'm thinking through these decisions

1:52:24I I have to think about you know future candidates and um and folks who want to make changes who

1:52:31who don't have the means um and who who need who need to be paid uh so that they can support their

1:52:38families um and so I am grateful for for councillor Caton for being brave and bringing this forward

1:52:46and also for that opportunity for the next council um to think to think more in depth about who they

1:52:51want sitting around the horseshoe thank you councillor claus and any further further comments

1:52:58and just to summarize um uh agreement with those comments that we've talked a lot here about

1:53:04compensation and uh we are policymakers first uh in our role as policymakers if we're politicizing

1:53:12or personalizing compensation when it truly is in in most organizations an HR matter and a very

1:53:18formulaic HR matter you take the job description you assign compensation to to the level of the job

1:53:26we've brought it into the public realm so it's very uncomfortable uh which is which is I can see

1:53:31from the commentary today um we have to think of the future councillors who will hold this role

1:53:36and I think this review is a way to get there so I'm glad that you your thoughts on that were

1:53:40aligned with councillor Caton's initiative as well I have a question before we call the vote

1:53:48just about process to the clerks because we've given an um a motion of no direction this does

1:53:55not come back to council at the end of the month is that correct uh thank you uh to you and through

1:54:05you uh check around these motions um we'll have to come back at council at the end of the month

1:54:11for final approval they're not just receipt motions we have to confirm these at council

1:54:15at the end of the month so uh the motion that was previously passed um by councillor Goller uh

1:54:22related to the new me increase only will come back at the end of the month if the current

1:54:26motion passes that one will also come back at the end of the month okay thanks for that clarification

1:54:30so we'll call the vote on councillor Caton's motion with respect to moving forward on the policy

1:54:34matters related to this issue one clarity question thank you madam chair and through you

1:54:40does does that review also include the number of councillors uh through you chair coronda to

1:54:49mayor guthrie what I first see happening is we will very likely uh bring a report scoping the work

1:54:55um you know initially a thought that I would have is it should absolutely include obviously

1:55:00the ward boundary piece because there is a the want to make sure that that each of you are

1:55:03representing relatively equal electoral populations it it absolutely can include again the size of

1:55:10scouts of the the the scale of council the number of councillors per ward etc similar to what we

1:55:14did before but I would foresee us in in achieving uh the the direction that is sought by councillor

1:55:20caten's motion is we would come back with a report that would sort of scope that body of work

1:55:25then we could include that and incorporate that into budget as as noted in in 2028 and then we

1:55:31would actually carry out that project through again the middle point of of this next term this

1:55:35next coming term of council so that it's in place before council well before uh the sort of the tail

1:55:42end of next term and and with enough runway for the 2030 term thank you and thank you

1:55:49madam chair just a quick comment then before the vote if you don't mind uh so

1:55:54definitely agree with with this thank you councillor Caton for for tabling it and second

1:55:59to councillor hauser um I know that the motion I believe kind of triggers into 2028 but sometimes

1:56:08this scope of work is quite large in financial impact so it could be 150 000 or 200 000 I I

1:56:16don't know but it could be quite a bit so as much as it the motion which I'm going to approve today

1:56:22or support today is for 2028 it might be good for the new council to know what that scope of work

1:56:29might be if they want to start putting the money away in a reserve like a year in advance so it's

1:56:35not a bigger hit to the budget in 2028 so maybe it's a maybe it's a $50 000 line item in 2027

1:56:41and a $50 000 line item and going into 2028 instead of a bigger hit just in one year just to kind of

1:56:47smooth out the the the property tax impact could you at least if this passes inform that next

1:56:55term of council going into 2027 like approximate costs for this scope of work so that they have

1:57:01the choice of putting some money into 2027 even though the work might not occur until 2028 2029

1:57:09through you um Chair Caronta Mayor Guthrie yet certainly we can explore that we would we sort

1:57:17of will factor that in as well and and we can contemplate potential use of reserve funding

1:57:22to support that so incremental amounts we know that the 2020 work that was done was it was in

1:57:29and around 200 to 225 000 for that comprehensive review again that's in 2020 we would be revisiting

1:57:36this as I said again in 2028 dollars so yeah we'll be mindful of that that that that nuance

1:57:44great thank you especially if it's a multi-year budget it can be placed out appropriately for

1:57:49the next term of council to know what that impact would be so thank you thanks ma'am Chair thanks

1:57:55okay we're down to the vote then is anyone opposed to the recommendation to the motion on the floor

1:58:01I see no one opposed that passes unanimously so thanks to council for this very difficult

1:58:09and uncomfortable conversation and we will move forward accordingly I'm going to while I still

1:58:14have the chair before I pass it on to Councillor Klassen I think we're at the two hour mark so

1:58:19we're going to take a quick break while we change chairs over to you Councillor Klassen

1:58:23we'll reconvene in five minutes good evening we are in the infrastructure development

2:08:59environment component of the committee of the whole meeting our first item we're going to work

2:09:06we've got two agenda items and we're going to work through both of them and and I think that we should

2:09:15we should be good so I'm going to hand things over to staff Nectar I see you up there

2:09:22we have our water and wastewater servicing allocation policy which is is a very timely

2:09:29discussion based on what I've heard from staff and and the media about what's happening with the

2:09:34city of Waterloo so I'm really looking forward to the presentation and the discussion so over to you

2:09:40thank you very much so good afternoon Chair Klassen and committee of the whole

2:09:44my name is Nectar Tampacopoulos and I'm the general manager of environmental services

2:09:49uh today we're going to be presenting on the water wastewater proposed service allocation

2:09:55policy for your consideration and review uh with me today to provide a short presentation

2:10:01are Ms. Christo Walki general manager of planning and building and Mr. Wayne Gallower general manager

2:10:07sorry divisional manager of water services great thank you very much Nectar and good afternoon

2:10:24Chair Klassen and members of committee to begin in sharing some background on the report before

2:10:30you today my first slide here essentially bill 185 the cutting red tape and building more homes act

2:10:39was essentially released by the province in 2024 and received royal assent in the Ontario

2:10:43legislature in June 2024 this act aimed to fast-tracked housing development by streamlining

2:10:49approvals cutting bureaucracy and amending 15 Ontario statutes to meet the goal of building

2:10:551.5 million homes by 2031 through the statutes revised by the act use it or lose it servicing

2:11:02provisions were introduced under the municipal act to encourage more housing sooner and provide

2:11:06municipalities with tools for added water and wastewater servicing capacity management should

2:11:11approve developments not proceed to construction in a timely fashion specifically the ability to

2:11:16reclaim capacity holdings of aged approved development and reallocate these service the

2:11:21servicing capacity to shovel ready development furthermore change to the acts identified that

2:11:27local servicing decisions made under council approved servicing bylaws including use it or

2:11:32lose it provisions would not be appealable to the Ontario land tribunal these revisions introduced

2:11:38through bill 185 are in alignment with the city's official plan specifically section 6.1 6.14 and

2:11:466.15 which speak to the needs for adequate servicing or to permit development defining a

2:11:52process for servicing allocation and the land types that allocation would be applicable for

2:11:58I'll now invite Christa walkie our GM of planning and building services to speak to our next slide

2:12:07thanks Wayne so managing growth approvals and servicing needs are becoming more complex

2:12:13from bill 185 60 17 we could go on and other recently regulatory changes that were implemented

2:12:21by the province as well as provincial density changes to our official plan which is our growth

2:12:26management document examples of these include allowing three or four units as a right on properties

2:12:33to allow more housing on an individual property basis this was not planned in our servicing

2:12:40systems and has not been accounted for so we need to ensure that we are accounting for that

2:12:45and tracking it in our systems changes by the province to our density in specific areas of

2:12:51the city such as GID as well an additional units that come forward to this council on individual

2:12:59planning applications for more density that is proposed that is proposed by individual

2:13:04proponents on applications as well as more recent changes to development charges and

2:13:09collection requirements delaying payment and timing of two from building permit to building

2:13:16occupancy thus delaying revenues needed to construct new servicing infrastructure to support

2:13:22future community growth taking into account all of these challenges it's important for the city to

2:13:28maintain a proactive approach to tracking servicing capacity and its existing servicing commitments

2:13:34to best manage our available servicing capacity further continued tracking of our servicing system

2:13:40flows and understanding the pace of development best informs the city of infrastructure timing

2:13:46investments not only to the the larger playlists but to our linear infrastructure as well making

2:13:53the most of our available servicing capacity also includes allocating capacity to those who are

2:13:59shovel ready and as you'll see in the last bullet point we have 176 units that are in

2:14:05registered plans of subdivision that have been there for more than 10 years no permit pulled yet

2:14:11we have 1158 units that are in draft approved plans for more than 10 years and again not

2:14:19advanced to the next step we also know we have 6000 units that are short-term supply so by tracking

2:14:25this better and ensuring we have allocation for those who are shovel ready will better position

2:14:30us to bring housing on quicker and faster back to me great thank you so much christa

2:14:43as discussed with members of council during the may 2025 water and wastewater servicing

2:14:48capacity council workshop the amount of the city's water and wastewater servicing capacity is approved

2:14:53by the ontario ministry the environment conservation and parks and is defined in the form of

2:14:59certificates of approvals or permit to take water amongst other regulatory tools and defines

2:15:05what is a finite volume of servicing in 2025 environmental services and planning and building

2:15:12services staff undertook a project to develop a detailed water and wastewater tracking model

2:15:17to account for servicing capacity allocation on a plant basis through the comparison of current

2:15:22system servicing demands versus what are planned planning and building approvals

2:15:29that we expect to join our system in time through ongoing planning work

2:15:34looking to the city's permitted water supply wells and wastewater treatment processes the model as of

2:15:39year end 2024 identified 16,474 meters cube per day in water servicing capacity and 4,805 meters

2:15:48cube per day in wastewater servicing capacity specifically for in water and the number that's

2:15:54stated there is to note that essentially this does include what is an operational contingency

2:16:01as recommended through the waters there the council approved 2022 water supply master plan

2:16:07which comes to account for what our resiliency needs and our operations when wells may need to be

2:16:11taken offline for what is required maintenance or shut unplanned critical failure of infrastructure

2:16:17occur to support the anticipated growth of our city's water services and wastewater services

2:16:22capital project managers continue to pursue new permits to take water as well as design and construct

2:16:27new servicing capacity in accordance with both the 2022 water supply master plan update and wastewater

2:16:33services master plan or wastewater and biosolids master plan plant capacity based projects of

2:16:41significance that council may recognize from ongoing reporting are the clife water treatment

2:16:46plant again starting construction in 2027 the water resource recovery expansion phase one

2:16:54starting in 2026 as well as the Guelph test well environmental assessment and northeast

2:17:00northeast Guelph test well environmental assessment it's important to note that at this time no

2:17:11council approved water and wastewater servicing policy exists to direct the city's servicing

2:17:16allocation processes in absence of this policy staff see risk to both proponents in the city alike

2:17:22for proponents significant financial and time investments are made to gain planning approvals

2:17:27but serving out servicing allocation is not currently formalized until the time of development

2:17:31agreement approval uh under past processes this could mean that servicing allocation is still at

2:17:37a risk until the time in which a development agreement is executed and creates um you know let

2:17:43that potential risk of execution for the proponent for the city the lack of a robust capacity

2:17:48management system could lead to overallocation of servicing capacity creating the need to halt

2:17:53development allocation approvals and may even introduce level of service impacts to existing

2:17:58customers further servicing capacity and commitment tracking is essential to understand

2:18:03future servicing needs and ensure ensuring the timely budgeting for construction of new

2:18:09infrastructure both on the plant and linear basis in looking to our process to develop the policy

2:18:20here before you today essentially we employed what was a two-phase process through the first

2:18:26phase in May 2025 staff released through the have your say engagement platform a 30-day survey

2:18:33essentially seeking from community stakeholders interest and support for common terms of municipal

2:18:39servicing capacity bylaws as well as seeking suggestions as to what would be best in class

2:18:44municipal policies to consider when forming our own local policy based on stakeholder requests

2:18:51through uh phase one uh from there an interdepartmental staff team with representatives of economic

2:18:57development and tourism engineering and transportation services planning and building

2:19:01services and environmental services worked to develop what was a plain language policy which

2:19:06was then released on september the 22nd for a 30-day public review through have your say

2:19:11which ended on october the 23rd coming from phase two feedback revisions to the policy were completed

2:19:19and a follow-up meeting held with grant highlands home builders association to discuss their comments

2:19:25share revisions completed to the policy since that that was shared through public engagement

2:19:29as well as share the revised policy that would be coming to council through our reporting

2:19:35similarly at this time following the initial engagement in 2025 staff had brought forward

2:19:39the draft servicing allocation policy and report to the economic development and tourism advisory

2:19:44committee of council and planning environment and water advisory committee of council in january

2:19:492026 to discuss changes from the policy coming from phase two of the engagement and plan next

2:19:55steps and bringing this policy to council coming from this both respective council advisory committees

2:20:00received the report and provided endorsement of the draft water and wastewater servicing

2:20:04allocation policy at their respective meetings of january 12th and 13th as far as what we heard

2:20:15through the engagement process request to clarify the scope of capacity checks in the past we may

2:20:21have looked at individual services but through the new process we're looking to validate both on

2:20:26the plant from a water and wastewater standpoint as well as in the system from a water and wastewater

2:20:30standpoint that capacity works in all those circumstances costs or questions of cost of

2:20:37capacity check i would note that more simplistic capacity checks can essentially be completed in

2:20:43house under limited costs whereas higher volume or more complex checks may involve engagements of

2:20:50external engineering consultants who oversee management of our detailed water and wastewater

2:20:54services linear models to complete the checks and those costs would essentially flow through to

2:20:58proponents as far as the work needed to complete those requests in support of their applications

2:21:04the first draft of our policy came to mention the need for independent servicing agreements

2:21:09however through further discussion with legal services on this matter and looking at feedback

2:21:13received through the engagement it was determined that ascension independent servicing agreements

2:21:18would not be needed and that essentially through the modernization of some of our development

2:21:23agreements looking at site plan and subdivision that the lapsing provisions and the capacity

2:21:29holds would be noted through those respective processes through this in turn we were well

2:21:35questions around the lapsing period lengths proposed through the policy and when the clock

2:21:39would start on these respective processes looking to planning applications versus approved

2:21:45applications that are moving head to construction and suggestions were provided as well on the

2:21:51process criteria and future instruction to proponents as far as supporting making those

2:21:56extensions lastly we also received some feedback from the builders association

2:22:03associated just with the narrative around capacity at the city itself and again reflecting that you

2:22:10know the city is open for business although our capacity holdings may be finite for council's

2:22:22awareness just to overview some key terms under the policy itself key to the whole policy itself

2:22:28is early engagement we want to speak to proponents early understand what their the project is what

2:22:32their servicing needs are and provide an early indication that we're in a place to support the

2:22:36project under the policy there are two different types of checks both an informal and a formal check

2:22:45the formal check process is a is essentially a application put forward by the proponent

2:22:51looking at support again of what is a planning application once we've completed that check

2:22:57that would hold the capacity as required for the planning development for 48 months within our

2:23:01model as they progress towards what is an approved application uh spoken to previously capacity

2:23:08checks do have costs and it is based on the scope of those respective capacity checks under the policy

2:23:14you'll also note what is a community economic development investment proposal hold this is

2:23:20looking at our our competitive process between us and other jurisdictions and looking looking to approve

2:23:25or attract new business locally and ensuring that while we're having those discussions that

2:23:31there is a respective hold around the servicing needs for those business again to ensure we can

2:23:36facilitate that from a reputational perspective and continuing those discussions as part of

2:23:42approval of a site plan subdivision or building permit again the capacity hold would be put against

2:23:48that project reaching that milestone for what is a 36 month lapsing term to be defined through the

2:23:53respective agreement those who are reaching the end of a lapsing term either under what is you know

2:24:04development of a planning application or an approved application have the ability to request

2:24:09extensions again if they're unable to deliver within either that 36 or 48 month window through

2:24:18these extensions requests these would come to the gm of planning and building services again the

2:24:24circumstances would be that the lapsing period would have been met for either process without

2:24:30seeking an extension that would be the circumstance under which we'd seek to potentially reclaim that

2:24:35capacity beyond the extension request there is also an appeal mechanism under the policy

2:24:41and through the report today we are seeking council support to delegate authority to the deputy

2:24:46ceo of infrastructure development and enterprise to essentially administer that appeal process

2:24:51furthermore under monitoring and reporting under the policy shared there would be an annual report

2:24:56to council embedded within the existing growth management report to share with council what is

2:25:02our unallocated servicing capacity to inform you in your decisions okay so just looking to next steps

2:25:22beyond the terms of the policies next steps to enact and support administration will be as follows

2:25:28procedurally we'll be seeking approval of the enacting bylaw which will be completed at a

2:25:33future meeting of council and the copy of that bylaws included as an attachment to your report

2:25:37today as discussed within the report following bylaw approval planning and building services will

2:25:43be working to notify stakeholders with age planning approvals over 10 years in age of the lapsing

2:25:48periods requirements of the policy and use it or lose it policy provisions with the intent of

2:25:52looking to reclaim or reallocate servicing capacity holds associated with these projects

2:25:57if not reaching substantial performance in 36 months from the time of notice

2:26:02instruction is being developed to support stakeholders in developing and submitting

2:26:06extension requests and appeals as defined are the policy staff are working to put these in

2:26:11place currently and hope to have them on the web for future instruction and proponents by the end

2:26:15of q1 lastly staff are working to update the initial version of our plant tracking model

2:26:22with most recent customer demands as well as approval and commitment information coming from

2:26:28planning approvals within 2025 I'll now pass thing back to Krista for the final slides great thank

2:26:39you aene so before closing today I just wanted to provide some focus to a continuous improvement

2:26:44in our development process coming from this policy so it is customer focused engaging customers

2:26:50early on their servicing needs and conforming our ability to service and support their project

2:26:56is key to our project throughout the life cycle of an application from pre consultation meeting

2:27:01through to development approvals and then again when a development is ready to move into site

2:27:06plan approval and is getting ready for shovels in the ground we have embedded in the policy notice

2:27:11requirements for an app when an applicant is meeting the end of their hold on allocation

2:27:18so that we can have further discussions on timing of construction and potential extensions of that

2:27:23allocation hold if they're working towards getting toward a permit in the ground capacity

2:27:29tracking for decision makers we're ensuring that our tracking systems are robust to maintain where

2:27:34we stand at capacity holdings so we can inform available capacity decisions and making timing

2:27:41for budgets for infrastructure upgrades and to bring forward more servicing capacity when it's

2:27:46needed transparency this process is transparent it provides stakeholders with a transparent and

2:27:54consistent approach by which capacity allocation is administered maintaining our service resiliency

2:28:01maintaining throughout our capacity tracking and management systems the need needed surplus capacity

2:28:06for routine operational asset management as well as emergency events which may occur

2:28:12and best management of capacity so this allocation tool will give us a tool in which

2:28:17capacity can be reclaimed from those age developments and relocate reallocated to shovel ready developments

2:28:24who are prepared to advance a project or a housing related project today so in the in the council the

2:28:36staff report you'll see resolutions that we are asking council to support today first that they

2:28:43approve the water and wastewater servicing allocation policy as in attachment number one to

2:28:48this report and that the city of gulf council delegate authority to the administration of the

2:28:53water and wastewater servicing allocation policy to the deputy CEO of IDE currently mr. gayman at

2:29:01the end of the end of the table and that the city of gulf approve our water and wastewater servicing

2:29:08bylaw and that is an attachment too and with that i will turn it back to mr. tampa tampa coplas to

2:29:15wrap us up so thank you very much for the presentation i think it's important to also thank the staff

2:29:29that were working on this it was very challenging it was a long road to get here so thank you to them

2:29:33and i think we also need to acknowledge as we did the external stakeholders who are willing to

2:29:38engage us in our outreach and engage us in our engagement and for the feedback they provided

2:29:44those were good discussions they were fruitful discussions and as was mentioned those will continue

2:29:50just to close it out wealth is a groundwater community and we all know that and there are

2:29:56challenges with groundwater communities that other communities with large great you know lake surface

2:30:01based water don't have and when we looked at putting these three recommendations together

2:30:08around allocation policy whether it's water that's needed to maintain our current max level demands

2:30:16whether it's allocated water that's already been allocated to developments whether it's future

2:30:21and allocated water whether it's water that we require as a buffer to ensure we do our operations

2:30:26and maintenance to ensure that we're able to meet our emergency repairs and requirements as needed

2:30:31it's important to track those and the way i kind of look at it there are business decisions that are

2:30:36made and the way we create allocation or we create capacity in the system is through capital budgets

2:30:45so the capital budget that's been approved for water wastewater for this year and beyond is really

2:30:51meant to increase that capacity for future development for future growth for future investment in the

2:30:57city and in order to be able to make those decisions we need to provide you with the data

2:31:03that you need to be able to make those decisions and how you allocate those budget dollars for capital

2:31:09facilities and upgrades and improvements with that when we look at the recommendations again

2:31:19we we kind of look at

2:31:23where's the positive coming out of this what's a good story because there's a good new story coming

2:31:27out of this it isn't about whether or not someone loses capacity if it's 10 years or more the good

2:31:34news is the council has approved budget the good news is there is capacity out there and we have

2:31:39capacity going forward for the next 10 years what we're building to bring business into

2:31:43gulf to bring development into gulf to allow the community to flourish the good new story i think

2:31:49is and when we're looking at our external stakeholders and mr galler mentioned it the city

2:31:55is open for business i think what the what we're showing putting these recommendations together

2:32:02is that uh external developers external business owners want to bring business to gulf

2:32:09want to help develop and grow the community want to revitalize and vitalize the community further

2:32:15they can trust in gulf because we are working together as a business partner they can trust in

2:32:21gulf because we're looking at data that can allow us to create intelligent business decisions

2:32:29i think they can trust in gulf that they can come and invest in development invest in business

2:32:36invest in industry have all those secondary impacts that employment and that kind of investment has

2:32:42in the city and we can ensure that the capacity that they are looking for the capacity that we've

2:32:49allocated the future capacity that's unallocated that when they're shovel ready when they're ready

2:32:54to dig when they need that capacity it will absolutely be there for them and that's what

2:32:59these recommendations allow us to do so on that note i will close it out and open the florida questions

2:33:09thank you mr tampocopolis and mr galler and miss walkley for your presentation

2:33:16um we have uh three recommendations and i i had a hand up from councillor Goller for questions

2:33:24and i'm also wondering if you'd like to move the recommendations yes chair class and i would

2:33:28love to move the recommendations and i see councillor Caton would like to second so they're

2:33:34now on the floor and i'll pass it back over to you for questions thank you so much chair class and

2:33:39uh to staff thank you so much for the report and for all the work that has led up to this point

2:33:44um we did have two pieces of correspondence attached to to this that raised some concerns and i was

2:33:51wondering if you had a chance to review them and if you could speak to to the concerns raised in

2:33:55those two two letters or or if you wanted me to to sort of highlight some of those and walk through

2:34:01those uh through the chair to councillor Goller i'll get started and assume that there may be

2:34:11others who want to speak to this as well um certainly coming from phase two we made a

2:34:17a point to essentially meet with the grand highlands home builders association

2:34:21and discuss the policy there um in addition essentially other questions that we had received

2:34:28through the have your say report we had positioned those and provided direct response as well so

2:34:34i guess what we had heard through the process and and similar to my slide was you know seeking a

2:34:40little more detail around what the extension process would be and uh coming to you know categorize

2:34:47and help coach what those applications may be in the future um we acknowledge that with today's

2:34:53an action of the policy the soonest that we'd be using those extension clauses was three years down

2:34:57the road so um obviously we have some time to again uh implement those have some discussion with

2:35:04the community and uh as well as we you know start to operational operationalize this policy

2:35:10implement this and other changes as we move ahead um beyond this again i talked a little

2:35:16bit around the narrative uh that again was a concern to some of the stakeholders that we had

2:35:21spoke to uh felt that there was just a challenge with some of the mixed messages around work around

2:35:26water were finite based and what type of water do we have to grow within our community so um

2:35:31heard that loud and clear and essentially can understand as we talk of uh servicing into the

2:35:37future and being opening for business and i think the added transparency of communicating what we

2:35:41have for an allocated capacity that these things are coming forward uh beyond this there were some

2:35:47concerns just simply i think looking at the 36 month period that once you have a planning approval

2:35:53and looking again to is this an adequate amount of time to essentially reach completion of my

2:35:59development uh i know through this again from a planning services perspective there was talk of

2:36:04right sizing applications to ensure that again uh we have capacity that we're managing between

2:36:11various parties and various interests um however you know looking to a large uh legacy type application

2:36:18where the intent would be you know over 20 years we're doing so many per year um it makes it challenging

2:36:24if you're committing to you know something over that time frame and then you know working with others

2:36:29again who may have smaller scope projects and you know have a smaller implementation window so

2:36:36um i'll start there and maybe open things up to chris if there's anything else you might like to offer

2:36:41no okay um thank thank you for that i think that that is very helpful um one of the the concerns

2:36:48that that comes to mind uh was the the fact that we don't have a report listing exactly the water

2:36:54capacity at this point but i believe that that's coming in the next couple of months so because

2:36:59this is going to be you know three years before we start enforcing would there be any any benefit

2:37:05or any value to council actually waiting to see the report before approving this policy um through

2:37:15the chair to councillor Goller um as discussed in in my report i guess you know there there is risk

2:37:22present in absence of what is an enhanced process at this time um maybe if i could ask the clerks

2:37:28we did prepare some information that didn't get into the report some additional slides here today

2:37:32that we can bring up um i'll start with the water side of things and my colleague tim robertson here

2:37:39we can speak to wastewater if we can start with slide one please um so the following graph itself

2:37:47comes to define for council i think two things that are important um okay yeah i'm sorry that

2:37:54you're seeing this for the first time but happy to explain it and discuss it further uh essentially

2:37:59the blue lines that you see are what is what is contingency or resiliency based holds within our

2:38:05operation understanding that essentially you know in our planning of systems we have to look at our

2:38:11largest source being offline and looking to the community beyond that to say you know just because

2:38:16we're taking something offline we don't want to see an impact with the customer or with servicing

2:38:21demands within the community so that blue line represents the hold within operations to ensure

2:38:25that again the changes and maintenance that need to happen in our system have adequate capacity

2:38:30to do that the red line represents what is an allocated uh capacity that's available for growth

2:38:37at this time and essentially the uh the orange line that you see there and the figures on top of it

2:38:43represent the years of growth that are remaining um to the point where we construct and implement what

2:38:49are new sources of water supply so um i guess the growth management report for 2025 will be coming

2:38:56ahead for council's information in the near term i understand uh at this time based off staff's figures

2:39:02and looking at what our 2020 what is 2025 we anticipate about 6.3 years of growth and that

2:39:08is based specifically on what is the uh the average goal of the growth management plan of 947

2:39:15residential units per year so i guess a couple things that council may want to consider just

2:39:21with this in mind that um you know water services managing leakage within our system is significant

2:39:27we want to keep that down that means that our capacity goes further so again this would assume

2:39:31that we're managing our losses at current levels um beyond that this is a residential only forecast

2:39:37so we respect that industry is part of the mix as well but based on new industry that comes to the

2:39:42city and service and commitments that may come around this again that may make accelerate what this is

2:39:48but generally essentially we're looking at uh you know 6.3 years with remaining capacity

2:39:54your next new source that will be onboarding is the klythe water treatment plant which will complete

2:39:59design this year and be implemented between 28 and 29 uh thereafter you see gulf southwest which

2:40:07i know is an ea and not a permanent source at this time but um thereafter as we're able to

2:40:13implement a klythe you can see there's just about 8.4 years of growth remaining giving us some more

2:40:19time as well to onboard that next next source this would be something that we take a look at again

2:40:24on a year-to-year basis because we're getting our planning information our commitments

2:40:28understanding the changes in flow things like peak demand as our community grows

2:40:33to validate what is our unallocated capacity and you know stage those future infrastructure

2:40:39investments through the budget accordingly to ensure that again from a capacity standpoint

2:40:44things are ongoing and we're not seeing stops and starts perhaps if we could see slide two now and

2:40:51Tim will allow you to speak to the wastewater side of things

2:40:54sure thanks Wayne good afternoon council I'm Mirgothry uh three years here class and then to

2:41:01council Gullar so a bit less intricate than the water one but uh essentially I guess is some

2:41:08we want to give this slide to provide some confidence so we we know what's going on um you know

2:41:14well we need to build ahead of when capacity is required of course um this the flows that you

2:41:20see here and the flows we build to is everything that comes to the city uh industry commercial

2:41:27residential mother nature with rain and precipitation as well so we always have to is a slightly

2:41:32different look at it than than we do in our water team um we've always been aiming through the master

2:41:39plan to be ready for additional capacity by end of 2028 um this little bit of buffer and and those

2:41:49it's not an exact sign so um through council support we've got some great investment happening

2:41:55at the facility shovel breaking the ground this year on one of the major projects um all four

2:42:01projects if I can take you back to last May we had a bit of a workshop in here for that

2:42:07still on on target to be completed by end of 28 which will put us in good stead to apply for

2:42:14re-rating for the capacity to take us through to uh at least thousand and thirty eight of this moment

2:42:20through the master plan that'll happen between 28 and 38 will determine on what the next phase

2:42:26to expansion is so always staying ahead of it uh I guess you know what we've heard today obviously

2:42:32we there is a restriction on a limitation potentially on water so is always water right we have to

2:42:37make sure we we're staying well ahead of that and we are we're also looking for business so

2:42:42hope that helps uh provide some confidence uh yeah it is it is quite helpful to see that and it

2:42:48could we just go back to the previous slide so that I understand the um the red line that you're

2:42:54presented Mr. Agala heard the um sort of the the um yeah the unallocated capacity is that the unallocated

2:43:01capacity considering all the applications that are being held so the moment that in three years time

2:43:07when this policy comes into effect will that change because we will be freeing up um capacity

2:43:13that is always otherwise tied up by developments that are not being built through the chair to

2:43:20Councillor Goller that's correct and that's what our plant model does that we've spoke of in the

2:43:25report so essentially as we form these commitments it's shown as an intermold and capacity that's

2:43:30held um and I think yeah again through our our May workshop there was a question that had come

2:43:36from Councillor Busuttil as well saying we may allocate a certain volume but is that volume the

2:43:43performance of that built form when in place so moving ahead certainly we'll be monitoring as to

2:43:49when something comes from an application to what is a constructed environment and becomes build

2:43:55demand in our system such that we're not double counting you know those investments at the end

2:43:59of the day but as well we're able to you know sharpen the accuracy of our tool and time as we

2:44:05come to see um again the projected versus what's the actual performance of the building

2:44:11or developed site into the future thank you very much thank you chair class and I

2:44:18I hope we can approve this here and at the end of the month I think it's very important to

2:44:22monitor groundwater allocation so that we we can approve with more certainty down the road thank you

2:44:29thank you Councillor Goller uh Councillor Caiten and then Mayor Guthrie please

2:44:36thank you very much um I think this is great I think especially

2:44:41due to the recent announcements in Waterloo and how they had to stop permits um because

2:44:49they've run out of water pretty much uh this is really prudent to do um I also like how

2:44:57it encourages groups that do have permits out to get shovels in the ground because

2:45:05it's kind of a first come first serve we have a max capacity you know get your stuff built because

2:45:12if someone else builds faster you may not get to and um I was just wondering about one part of it

2:45:19because when I was reading through I didn't see anything about a use case for um folks who have

2:45:29approvals for developments that are in a zone like maybe they've under done for the the zoning

2:45:37level um and then they go to the committee of adjustment and they are able to go up to a

2:45:42certain height like maybe we've rezoned since then we've had a lot of times now we're building heights

2:45:47have just gone up and up and I didn't see anywhere in there that the water servicing plan had to be

2:45:57reviewed if they go to the committee of adjustment because I figured there could be depending on

2:46:02the situation quite a big gap in what they were approved for and what their study showed

2:46:09was necessary versus going to committee of adjustment. Yeah through the chair to to Councillor Caiten

2:46:17so committee of adjustment one of the tests is does it conform to the official plan

2:46:22and that is a test which they have to meet the committee of adjustment so they can't as a right

2:46:27through the committee of adjustment increase their density they can change a height they can change a

2:46:32side yard but they can't increase their density so the density is calculated in our official plan so

2:46:37as far as what that site is planned for we already have that captured um if it's a large

2:46:43development and they go to committee of adjustment for some variances to a side yard or parking or

2:46:49bike parking whatever it may be they still would have to go through the site plan process and then

2:46:55that's where again the allocation policy comes in and they would be captured with that you know at

2:46:59site plan you have 36 months to to move from site plan process to to building permit so we would

2:47:05have captured it and a lot of times they go through the development approval process in which they have

2:47:1048 months before they get to site plan um so it would have been captured at that point in time as

2:47:17well so I do think we I am confident that we do have it covered off great thank you so much thank

2:47:25you Councillor Caiten Mayor Guthrie thank you and through you Madam Chair and uh to staff I just uh

2:47:34I just wanted to try to understand something maybe just rephrased if so I can try to understand it a

2:47:39bit better but Councillor Goller asked about the main kind of water report that's coming in a little

2:47:47bit and I'm wondering why we're not waiting for that to influence what's in front of us now

2:47:57and if there's do you think that that might influence whatever the outcome of that report

2:48:03is to this or no uh are we going to be surprised to find out new information in the other report

2:48:09that then may impact this and so I just wondered if you could just uh lay that out for me a bit better

2:48:20I'll once again start it through the chair to Mayor Guthrie uh essentially the growth

2:48:26management report that'll be coming forward to council in March that speaks to commitments and

2:48:30again as per the policy we would seek to define at that time available capacity in the system

2:48:36um that is the same information that essentially we shared um I apologize for walking those slides

2:48:42in but the slides that we talked about today it's essentially the same information that council

2:48:47will receive uh in one or two months time okay I appreciate that and then my final question

2:48:55just through you Madam Chair to staff is uh maybe it's to Krista maybe just from a planning

2:49:02perspective um you know concerns that are out there that you know development large larger

2:49:10scale developments occur in phases and um it's dependent on the market uh as we all know that

2:49:18right now um so uh that that developers are going to have to jump through hoops every few years or

2:49:27they lose it and then they've got to like come back again when them and I'm just I'm concerned that

2:49:36that the policy isn't taking into effect the market that could fluctuate up and down

2:49:43um where developers are ready to put shovels in the ground and then they've lost the capacity to

2:49:48do that and I think that the policy states that there actually is a pretty good time frame of

2:49:56years and there's some discretion actually allowed within the policy to staff as well

2:50:02can you just state that for the public record so that that you know that can kind of be put to

2:50:08rest somewhat that even in these longer term larger scale developments that are in phases

2:50:16that there's that workability um as Nectar said we're open for business uh to try to make sure that

2:50:24the policy isn't so restrictive that really developers would would come you know butt up

2:50:30against that sort of this policy to make it unattainable to move on to put the shovels in

2:50:36the ground for the next phase through the chair to to America three so yes so the policy has built

2:50:44in extension requests and uh we will take a take a look at those when they come in and if a subdivision

2:50:50application or a site uh multi-phase to site plan application is coming in and they're you know

2:50:55actively kind of continuing to move forward and you know you've got four years from your

2:51:01zoning or plan a subdivision approval to get to a site plan and then you've got another three years

2:51:07after that so you kind of have seven years if you're coming in with a development application

2:51:11and if it's moving along and we absolutely recognize things in phases we have the allocation

2:51:16committed for that development and if they're continuing to to move phase by phase um then we

2:51:22will extend the allocation to that site um if they don't move and we you know we talked about

2:51:29having a plan 1987 there's some locks that have not yet moved forward um that has not demonstrated

2:51:37that commitment that they're ready to move forward but we're going to be reaching out to those those

2:51:41folks and it might hopefully spur a few more to come on which would be great for for the city

2:51:46but yes there's extension provisions and we would see that happening and as Mr. Gallagher

2:51:53said we have capacity in the system right now so we will you know we'll take a look at that on

2:51:58on every application as we move forward and we do expect there will be a significant amount of

2:52:03extensions as we move as we move forward this but it really helps us track the the allocation to

2:52:10make sure that we're making investment decisions when we need to make investment decisions and

2:52:14that we have a really good good handle on the capacity as we change processes but yes lots of

2:52:20capacity available and I see a lot of extensions happening delegated through through the DCO

2:52:26great thank you and I'm very just to ask one more question thank you through you is there anything

2:52:31that's thought of kind of a grandfathered in um or the existing sort of applications the existing

2:52:38developments that are sort of in the works a little bit um that are moving and trying to move

2:52:44along but then the market the housing market is what's impacting them it's not it's there's no

2:52:49lack of effort to try it's just that they've sold nothing for pre-sales and so when the market

2:52:57rebounds they're ready to go so my my question is kind of twofold is there kind of grandfathering

2:53:02in of the stuff that's already in the works and there's effort being made um and also how onerous

2:53:10if this policy comes through is it going to be for a developer to have to come and sort of ask

2:53:15permission you know from a speed of doing business or the speed of the market will it be onerous on

2:53:21them or are they going to be able to get the permissions and go fast I just see uh DCO game in

2:53:27this hand up yeah thank you through you chair class and to the mayor and and so the sort of

2:53:33theming of some of the questions tonight really this policy is is prudent management of the water

2:53:37system council as owner of the water system making those decisions to to ensure that Guelph is

2:53:44poised for growth development investment the things that we've been talking about tonight

2:53:47but part of the idea behind the administrative piece of this is that delegated authority so

2:53:52that we can move at the speed of business this is not about grinding anything to a halt this is

2:53:56about making sure that we're being responsible on our allocations and so that it's transparent and

2:54:00everyone understands exactly where they are in the rules and in the playing field and so that we

2:54:04can keep moving forward at the right speed so that we can see Guelph grow thank you mayor

2:54:13got three and staff I have up two hand three hands that have gone up in order that I saw them was

2:54:19Gibson Bucitil and Karen Koran yeah thank you um through you chair 100 what mayor got three just

2:54:27said we don't want to be stymie and growth and we want to encouraging them but I do want to

2:54:33counterbalance that with like I've heard this from staff but I've also seen this myself

2:54:39when it comes to property and very sophisticated developers you know god bless them they're really

2:54:45good at what they do but a vacant lot with no development plan no no zoning and no site plan

2:54:53approval is not as valuable as a lot that is pre-zoned and site plan is finished and then

2:55:01you're prepared and then you can sell it I've met developers out in western Canada that specialize

2:55:06in this they take over vacant lot they get it zoned they get it serviced with a site plan and

2:55:11then it's ready for market real market and that sometimes takes time so I admit that that happens

2:55:17but what we don't want is for developers with the ability to get it to the zoning get it to the site

2:55:23plan approval and then be able to bank it for 10 15 years knowing that it's a really great savings

2:55:30account for them because it's only appreciating over time I'm not I'm not accusing anyone in Guelph

2:55:35doing that I'm just saying that is kind of a prescription for why we're seeing this policy so

2:55:41I appreciate that from staff it's a delicate balance we don't want to be stymie growth

2:55:46we don't want to be stymie activity but we do have to nudge some of these files along so thank you

2:55:54no question there Councillor Gibson I apologize I should have made it clear it's a statement thank

2:56:01you thanks Councillor Boussotel please yes thank you and through the chair to the staff

2:56:08in the presentation you talked about accessory units and there are the accessory units that we

2:56:14know about and the ones that we don't know about so my question is uh is whether or not the staff

2:56:20are concerned about or is it significant the unknown significant unknown accessory units

2:56:28and that I have some more questions through the chair to the Councillor so I guess for

2:56:37unknown ADUs um I guess if they were unknown we'd be following our process so we do

2:56:44search warrants we do proactive enforcement when we hear about them but certainly there there may

2:56:49be some illegal units out there but we do our best to ensure that we're aware of them and bring

2:56:54them into a conformity we we do would would think that would be very small number would not impact

2:57:01the scale of this proposal thank you that's what I was looking for and through the chair my second

2:57:07question is about in the I think it was a schedule one at the bottom talks about institutional

2:57:13and I know I emailed you Christa about this so my question is about servicing do we hold back

2:57:20servicing for things that are growing community we know we'll need a hospital schools more recreation

2:57:28facilities um given that we know that it takes a long time to get ministry funding or approvals

2:57:34and things like that uh and those are things of a public benefit and I have a supplementary question

2:57:43yeah through the through the chair to the Councillor so one of the provisions that we

2:57:47have set out um in the policy framework is to make those extension provisions for for servicing

2:57:55we know a hospital can take 10 years um four years for zoning amendment and three years for site plan

2:58:01is seven but we know it can take up to 10 years to get through the ministry process and schools

2:58:05are very similar to that so one of the the criteria for extending services and the extension of the

2:58:11allocation is to comply with the OP and we have a section in the OP that is complete and healthy

2:58:17communities which is to provide local services and public service facilities including affordable

2:58:22housing and schools uh so we do feel that the policy addresses uh those uses and as we you know

2:58:28know a school is coming on or a hospital is coming on to ensure we have that capacity so uh yes we do

2:58:34feel that the policy allows for it and extension requests if they're if they're in a process but

2:58:39get delayed at a provincial level as well thank you and your comments dovetail into my next question

2:58:47the policy talks about you know first come first serve you know get to the trough first kind of thing

2:58:54but you also talked about a balanced community um and so if applications come in is there is there

2:59:02a priority in in approvals of we need the hospital we need this uh is there kind of that screening

2:59:16through the chair to Councillor Bustel um there isn't necessarily a screening process

2:59:22uh but like any other applications that come in or come into the city um it's not

2:59:29first come first serve does sound maybe not the best way to put it but the reality is as the

2:59:35applications come in those are the ones that we process those are the ones that we work through

2:59:39and as they proceed we assess whether or not there's capacity that we can allocate to them as they

2:59:46start the planning process there's capacity allocated to them so really it is to some degree

2:59:51first come first serve that being said again there's opportunity for us to look at applications

2:59:58that are coming through there's opportunity for us to gauge our capacity going forward

3:00:03there's opportunity to look at what we want to deal with that capacity so to some degree it is

3:00:10first come first serve but that being said there's always the chance to look at other industry or

3:00:16anyone who wants to come in and gauge the level of readiness and gauge the capacity that we have

3:00:22to allocate to them thank you thank you Councillor Bustel Councillor Caron please yes thank you um

3:00:32my question actually has been answered but I wanted to comment that I'll be absolutely supporting

3:00:37the the recommendation um because you identified that there's there's actually a risk not only to

3:00:43the city but a risk to the developer in an uncertain and unstable market they could make

3:00:49significant progress on an application and then find out after expending all of that

3:00:55that the project can't proceed because of water capacity so I think this is you know this there's

3:01:00there's there's a nice balance to why we're doing this it's not just for the benefit of the city it's

3:01:05also for the benefit of of the project leaders and developers who who need that certainty so

3:01:12thanks for bringing it forward thank you for those comments Councillor Caron I have two questions

3:01:19if you will uh unless there's somebody else who I didn't see a sneaky hand go up so I'll go ahead

3:01:24um I did have a question we we referred to it a couple of times which is the which is Waterloo

3:01:30and the issues that they've been having with their water supply I was just wondering if we could we

3:01:35could share that with the public what what those issues are um and and the situation there uh to

3:01:46the chair um I don't think it would be appropriate for staff to speak to what's happening with our

3:01:54partners I don't know if we have a full assessment of what's actually going on other than you know

3:02:00what's been shared with us publicly or through our peers

3:02:06yeah what if yeah if I if I could just build a little bit um I guess as part of

3:02:14we've been watching this situation with interest as well uh their staff's understanding and it was

3:02:19published as part of an agenda for the Region of Waterloo I believe about two weeks ago that there

3:02:23was a third party review um of the the circumstances and the issues within the system we could certainly

3:02:32share that with Council if you don't have it already for subsequent information from today

3:02:38okay thank you um and then finally my question is with regard to Council's role in in in water supply

3:02:48um it's just it's it's something that I mean I think that it's we know our we know our fiduciary

3:02:53responsibilities to the community but I specifically like get asked ask you to elaborate on our role

3:03:00for maintaining our water supply for current and future growth uh back to the chair as we look at

3:03:12design standards from the Ministry of the Environment Conservation and Parks certainly as we look at

3:03:19water systems and the health of water systems it's having adequate water for growth or the unknowns

3:03:26that come along with that and it's I guess some best practice materials that certainly look to

3:03:31you know at least a horizon of three to five years that we can say we have adequate water for our forecasted needs

3:03:38um I think this information and and what will come through the growth report annually to inform

3:03:44Council of where we stand as far as available capacity both to ensure resiliency of our system

3:03:50as well as to support our our open for business objectives with the public

3:03:56this will supplement the information that we're sharing with you annually around the water system

3:04:01and the performance of the the system um and the various aspects as far as providing water supply not

3:04:08just domestic needs but looking at fire supply and all those things again that are part of the mandate so

3:04:14I think this is a healthy complement to the information that you're getting and allow you as the system

3:04:19owner and the main decision maker again to make informed decisions with respect to investment in

3:04:25the system and understand where we stand from a more detailed basis thank you for that answer and

3:04:34thank you for the respectful discussion that happened and I would like with that to call

3:04:41the vote if that's okay and I nobody's asked me to separate them so I'd like to call them all

3:04:48together so is anyone opposed to the three recommendations from staff um that it passes

3:04:58unanimously and I just want to thank everyone uh for the discussion and we will be moving on to 11.2

3:05:07I'll just give staff a couple of seconds and thank you again very much um with your

3:05:15council with your grace I'd like to move through item 11.2

3:05:22okay all right let's just take a second for staff to come up okay so we're moving on to 11.2 which

3:05:54are the terms of reference for our citywide parking strategy and we have a presentation from staff and

3:06:00I see Jennifer Juist standing in front of me um and I believe the presentation will also hear from

3:06:06Kyle Gibson and Helga Ogabi and um I'll just hand things over to you thank you thank you um

3:06:14so good afternoon members of council um we're pleased to speak to you today about the much

3:06:19anticipated citywide parking strategy the strategy will be our first comprehensive guide to the

3:06:25future of parking throughout the community in a manner that reflects our our unique land uses

3:06:31transportation system and community needs this is a strategy that is anticipated by many across

3:06:37the corporation for members of council and for our community as a whole and sorry I'm just realizing

3:06:43I don't have a mouse and I haven't been up here with the new setup is this my clicker perfect thank you

3:06:53the purpose for today's presentation is to inform council and the public about what the key issues

3:06:59and topics will be included in the scope of work for this strategy before we get started

3:07:04so first let's just quickly orient ourselves on why we need this parking study the city of

3:07:10Guelph has not to our knowledge ever undertaken a citywide study of public on-street parking needs

3:07:16we have studied private parking demand for the purposes of our zoning bylaw update and we've

3:07:21studied the downtown parking ecosystem a citywide parking strategy was first recommended in the 2022

3:07:28transportation master plan as part of an integrated multimodal approach to moving people around the

3:07:33city and since the approval of the tmp and subsequently the downtown parking master plan

3:07:39there have been many changes to our land use transportation and housing policies in Ontario

3:07:44that have impacted the parking ecosystem for example bills 23 17 185 and 60 many of which were

3:07:53passed in the last 18 months all include components to incentivize additional dwelling units and

3:07:58gentle density the city has been introducing changes to our local zoning bylaws to reflect

3:08:04these new regulations but as gentle density in our residential neighborhoods comes online

3:08:09there is potential and some concern that it's going to put pressure onto our on-street parking

3:08:15specific to downtown the introduction of bill 185 means that we need to update our parking

3:08:20analyses and forecasts for this part of the city bill 185 eliminates the right for municipalities

3:08:26to require parking from new developments within a major transit station area which according to

3:08:32the province is our downtown this renders the new payment and loop program void for downtown and has

3:08:38major implications for the downtown parking funding model and our plans to deliver additional

3:08:43parking supply over the next 20 years there have been other changes downtown as well we're closer

3:08:50every day hopefully to all-way two-day-go services meaning more demand from gulf residents and beyond

3:08:55for long-term parking we're working through mayoral directive to convert neve street and

3:09:00potentially fountain street into housing units and there are changes to our on-street parking

3:09:05capacity through the road reconstruction projects for windham street and mcdonnell street and so

3:09:11we're here to present our recommended scope of work for a combined downtown and citywide

3:09:16parking strategy which we have developed with your input the report before you today serves as a

3:09:22starting point to be clear about what is in and out of scope for this large study and to ensure

3:09:28we can respect the needs of the community while staying within a reasonable timeline and budget

3:09:33for this work so just to be abundantly clear up front we are not debating today whether we're

3:09:42whether or not we're going to introduce paid parking on street anywhere in the city or any

3:09:46other actions that we're going to take related to parking that's for the study to determine

3:09:52so we're currently in the project scoping phase and the initiation phase and we have prepared a

3:09:57draft scope of work for the terms of reference and upon your endorsement of today's report

3:10:02we anticipate entering procurement by the end of q1 to formally start the project the study is

3:10:11obviously aligned with a lot of our guiding policies so as i mentioned it's tied to our strategic plan

3:10:16by including components that address building housing implementing the tmp or transportation

3:10:22master plan and maintaining a vibrant downtown the city's housing affordability strategy building

3:10:29on the official plan highlights the importance of increasing the supply of housing including

3:10:33affordable housing and one of the action items in this strategy is to reduce or remove private

3:10:39off-street parking requirements for new affordable housing units so that initiative along with some

3:10:44of the provincial regulatory changes i referenced is influencing the supply and demand dynamics for

3:10:50on-street parking the tmp outlines how people and goods move through the city over the next 30 years

3:10:57and one of its key goals is to reduce the percent of daily trips made by car from 80 percent in 2022

3:11:04to about 58 percent by 2051 parking management and the strategies to manage parking supply and

3:11:11demand play an important role in supporting this target and finally we have the commitment to the

3:11:17united nations race to zero campaign with a target to achieve net zero emissions by 2050

3:11:24transportation is one of the city's largest sources of emissions so the strategy supports

3:11:29sustainable transportation by looking at parking management strategies that align with the tmp

3:11:34mode share targets and by exploring measures to support more uptake of zero emission vehicles

3:11:41and with this context in mind i'll pass it over to helia ogabi our parking and transportation

3:11:46policy analyst to speak to the details of what will be covered by the study and how we developed the

3:11:51scope of work thank you jenny and good afternoon members of council as you have heard this study

3:12:06is intended to take a first time holistic look at the existing policies regulations and operations of

3:12:12our parking ecosystem and advise on opportunities to improve its management in the future the city

3:12:19wide parking strategy uh was initially oh sorry the city wide parking strategy was initially

3:12:27forecasted for 2028 however the rapidly evolving policy landscape around housing and transportation

3:12:33required us to prioritize this study sooner funding for this study was moved forward to 2025

3:12:41the terms of reference for the project will include all the standard tasks we usually require

3:12:46including background information on existing conditions data collection and analysis of

3:12:51future needs community engagement and the development of a series of recommendations

3:12:58the city wide parking strategy will review existing publicly available parking supply

3:13:03and demand across the city and will provide data driven recommendations to achieve appropriate

3:13:08parking management strategies throughout the city it will include a review of existing parking

3:13:14regulations bylaws and policies with recommendations for updates where needed to ensure the city's

3:13:21regulatory framework can support the final recommendations and strategies of the city

3:13:26wide parking strategy the strategy will also update the downtown parking master plan to reflect

3:13:33changes resulting from recent provincial regulatory changes such as bill 185 the city

3:13:43wide parking strategy will recommend a sustainable city wide financial model for municipal parking to

3:13:49ensure long-term financial health um just going to the previous slide okay this includes updates to

3:14:01the downtown parking financial model which was developed before bill 185 came into effect

3:14:06with the passage of bill 185 the city can no longer require minimum parking for developments

3:14:11located within downtown which is designated as a major transit station area and can no longer

3:14:17collect payments in lieu in exchange for reduced parking as a result the study will look at alternative

3:14:23financial model options to maintain fiscal sustainability of the parking system in addition

3:14:29the strategy will provide direction on parking management that incorporates equity considerations

3:14:35as integrated with existing policies and practices and is financially and operationally

3:14:41sustainable supported by an by an actionable and achievable implementation plan equity considerations

3:14:48are embedded throughout the terms of reference from the outset the strategy will apply the city of

3:14:54golf's equity lens checklist across all phases research engagement policy development and

3:15:01recommendations to ensure equitable outcomes this includes assessing impacts on residents with

3:15:08different income levels and abilities racialized and newcomer communities youth and students

3:15:14transit dependent households small business owners and service and gig economy workers

3:15:20while balancing diverse curbside needs finally the strategy will identify where additional or

3:15:27future studies may be required to support ongoing parking planning and management

3:15:33and to complement the findings of the strategy and the previous two slides we outlined what the

3:15:44citywide parking strategy will include to provide clarity i would now like to highlight the matters

3:15:50that are out of scope for this project first a review of zoning bylaw parking standards

3:15:56including minimum parking requirements and driveway widths is out of scope these matters are

3:16:02reviewed and addressed through the city's comprehensive zoning bylaw updates which was

3:16:07completed in 2023 next the requirements governed under the ontario building code requirements

3:16:14which are out of scope while fire route designation can influence parking and right of way planning

3:16:21this item is also out of scope since it's governed under municipal policies and the ontario fire

3:16:27code changes to excel accessible parking requirements are not included as these requirements are

3:16:35regulated under the accessibility for ontarians with disabilities act or a oda all recommendations

3:16:43of the strategy will be in compliance with a oda private off-street parking and related

3:16:50enforcement are also out of scope these matters are governed through the zoning bylaw and the

3:16:56existing traffic bylaw next item is the administrative penalty system or a ps which

3:17:03is excluded from this work the city recently transitioned to the a ps in may 2025 and comprehensive

3:17:10work has already been completed to support its implementation rv and trailer parking are also

3:17:18out of scope as these matters are governed under other existing regulations if recommendations of

3:17:25this study are determined to have impacts on rv and trailer parking the study will recommend a

3:17:30future action item to address it and finally tasks related to internal staff processes such as

3:17:38and governance administrative practices organizational structure changes or the preparation

3:17:44of bylaws are not included in the city by parking strategy these activities will continue to be

3:17:50undertaken by city staff as required this study has been identified to be delivered with the

3:17:59support of a consulting service city staff are currently finalizing the terms of reference that

3:18:04will direct the successful consulting team and the project scope schedule costs and deliverables

3:18:10to ensure the terms of reference reflects best practices across the municipal sector

3:18:15staff reviewed parking strategies and related terms of reference from peer municipalities this work

3:18:20helped establish a baseline scope of work and ensured alignment with current and future best

3:18:25practices in addition to this review and to ensure the terms of reference is tailored to

3:18:30Guelph's unique context staff held a series of drop-in sessions and conducted an online survey

3:18:37with members of council these engagements were used to confirm key issues and priorities

3:18:44identified by council for inclusion in the project scope through council engagement activities

3:18:52staff received over 100 comments from members of council and thank you these comments were reviewed

3:18:58and organized into several key themes i'll start with the first one residential parking management

3:19:05there was interest in exploring citywide residential permit programs

3:19:09parking green investment models to support infrastructure and visitor pass systems with

3:19:14focus on equity and accessibility consideration next was downtown parking revisions council

3:19:21expressed interest and strategies to better manage demand for unsuit parking we're evaluating

3:19:26paid unsuit parking due to challenges related to downtown parking availability for employees and

3:19:31volunteers as well as high demand for curbside space through our work on the transportation

3:19:37master plan we heard interest from the downtown wealth business association in equalizing how

3:19:42parking was managed downtown and outside downtown therefore this task is in part focusing on the

3:19:50gaps and opportunities for improving the parking system in downtown and outside downtown to ensure

3:19:55areas are not impacted disproportionately one of the goals of this strategy is to have a funding

3:20:01model that doesn't single out downtown but considers parking costs and revenues on a citywide basis

3:20:10next theme was winter parking regulations there was relatively high interest in reviewing winter

3:20:15unsuit parking restrictions due to the challenges faced by residents who do not have access to a

3:20:20driveway those with narrow driveway widths and multi-generational households these residents

3:20:27rely heavily on unsuit parking during the winter season we heard from you council that council

3:20:34wants a better understanding of the impacts of parking on residents in need of unsuit parking

3:20:39throughout the winter and opportunities to address emergency response needs if parking were permitted

3:20:45year-round the next thing was policy review council supported the importance of reviewing

3:20:51existing parking policies and regulations to ensure they align with the recommended strategies

3:20:57another thing was equity and accessibility considerations there was strong interest in

3:21:03engaging with equity deserving and accessibility groups to better understand how parking policies

3:21:08affect these users and to ensure recommended strategies do not disproportionately impact

3:21:15them another thing was technology integration council showed interest in exploring the role

3:21:21of park and management technologies that can improve customer service and overall parking

3:21:25demand management short-term parking we heard support for considering short-term parking needs

3:21:32including space for delivery workers visitors and drop-off areas particularly in the downtown

3:21:40another theme was e-v charging infrastructure considerations council provided mixed feedback

3:21:46regarding e-v charging infrastructure while views varied there was clear recognition of growing

3:21:52interest which is reflected in the terms of reference and lastly parking enforcement some

3:22:00council members expressed interest in exploring practices that improve enforcement related to

3:22:06parking non-compliance all of the themes shown on this slide were brought forward in our

3:22:12discussion with members of council during our engagement sessions and have been incorporated

3:22:17into the scope of work for the citywide parking parking strategy terms of reference with respect

3:22:24to next steps staff are seeking council approval of the current report which summarizes the

3:22:31recommended scope of work presented to you today this will close a loop on the project

3:22:36initiation phase subject to council approval staff will proceed with issuing the terms of

3:22:41reference for the citywide parking strategy by the end of the q1 this year with project

3:22:47initiation expected in q2 the strategy is anticipated to be carried out throughout 2026 and 2027

3:22:55with the final report and recommendations expected to be delivered in q4 of 2027

3:23:02I now pass it back to jenny for closing remarks thank you helia so to conclude today's purpose

3:23:14is to confirm the key themes and topics that are going to be covered within the project's

3:23:19terms of reference today's decision is going to help provide certainty to prevent scope creep

3:23:25and budget creep and to make sure that this project can move forward we're not here to solve

3:23:31the parking issues today or debate the solutions that are going to come forward to you in 2027

3:23:37that will be undertaken through the study starting the beginning of this year our goal today is simply

3:23:42to establish a shared understanding of what the study will assess and deliver our recommendations

3:23:48will be developed and brought forward to council once the strategy is completed later next year

3:23:53and with that I want to thank you for your attention to this presentation and we're now happy to

3:23:57answer any questions you might have thank you jenny and helia I think I said it incorrectly the first

3:24:05time so my apologies for that we do have one delegation before we go to questions and comments so

3:24:13I'd like to invite alex prevez to come to the podium and you know the drill you've got five minutes

3:24:22once you get there and

3:24:31thank you once again just a couple of things with the parking strategy thing that should be included

3:24:36or I would like to suggest over the next two years we have a lot of construction downtown and

3:24:42we're starting to see the impact that is that with paid for parking or whatever I work at the royal

3:24:48in and suites and we're being

3:24:52just overwhelmed right now with the parking situation as well on a daily basis we have 16

3:24:59GO trains that are coming and going from guelph and our parking lot is it has become the kiss and

3:25:06ride is that we have roughly 120 to 150 cars every single day coming in dropping off and then leaving

3:25:14the other thing being right across the street from the Sleeman center if you do the page

3:25:18for parking kind of a scenario that you're looking at we're overwhelmed as well with people that are

3:25:24going to the hockey games and they're coming in and spending two three hours taking up all the parking

3:25:30spots and then when we do have hotel guests is that we have to send them over to the Quebec

3:25:36street mall parking lot and basically end up absorbing the cost because of parking issues

3:25:43one of the other things as well just in closing and very short here

3:25:46with the strategy if you're going to do the online parking downtown especially long Mac

3:25:52Danel is you have a lot of hair salons hair places and restaurants that people are there for less

3:25:59than two hours what's the construction that's happening right now you are basically

3:26:05hindering or basically putting your hand coffee in a lot of those businesses that if they have to

3:26:12pay for parking down there to be able to get a haircut whatever they're more likely to be able

3:26:17to go out of the downtown core especially over the next two years even fighting with construction

3:26:23it makes it less appealing for people to want to come downtown we want to be able to support our

3:26:28businesses but if they have to fight traffic and construction and everything else and then pay

3:26:34for parking before to even walk into a door of a business they're more likely to go to a strip mall

3:26:40or go outside of the downtown core that's basically all I want to say is I know it's

3:26:46sort of jumping to come here earlier but I'm just letting you know right now that strategy is great

3:26:52but it is impacting the businesses in the downtown core right now and over the next year year and a

3:26:58half construction it's going to be even more difficult for a lot of those businesses to keep

3:27:03the doors open thank you very much thank you for your delegation mr. preves any questions for the

3:27:12delegate sorry no okay um speakers list so I had goller karan I see gibson any can and katyn

3:27:23anyone else right now okay we'll start with goller and then uh kate karan sorry excuse me thank you

3:27:29chair class and I would like to move the recommendation so it's on the floor yes do you

3:27:34have a seconder downer thank you it's on the floor over over back to you sorry I had a kind of took

3:27:43me a second there I looked at I looked at karan and and then I saw down there so I was like don't

3:27:49say karan don't say karan don't say karan over to you thank you chair class and and thank you to

3:27:57staff for the work that you've done over the last six eight months or two to get this started

3:28:03I really appreciate it seeing that the feedback that that I gave on the other counselors gave

3:28:09reflected in this I think it's great I did have a question about once this gets started so we are

3:28:15proving this today what happens to change requests that come from the public to correct issues I mean

3:28:22will you be sort of putting any future on-street parking changes on hold are they still going to

3:28:29review it on a one-on-one cases I'm just trying to understand what how how those issues will be

3:28:34handled over the next possibly two years through you madam chair there's no change to our current

3:28:45public and public community responses or community service that we provide there are certain

3:28:52decisions that have already been made that have paused some work in order for this project to

3:28:58advance so for example the parking reviews that were based on a complaint basis and needed a

3:29:04referendum or survey to be passed a certain amount in order for staff to go and do something about

3:29:09it that work has been paused to see where this study will land in terms of how we want to manage

3:29:14parking supply in future and we'll look at whether that's the best way to do that work through this

3:29:20work or if there's a better solution to managing parking similarly the RV and trailer parking that

3:29:27has been that was advanced in 2021 further work on that was paused to wait for this study to be

3:29:34completed and determine how that might influence how we manage the parking of larger vehicles on

3:29:39street and on private driveways okay okay that is that is helpful thank you thank you for letting

3:29:45me know that and as I look at this plan between the procurement project initiation when can the

3:29:51public realistically expect to to have opportunities to participate in this

3:30:00through madam chair to councillor goller so as part of the project there is budget allocated to

3:30:07a comprehensive engagement plan since we haven't gone into the tender phase it's premature for us

3:30:13to determine the exact timelines of engagement but there are tasks detailed tasks under our terms

3:30:20of reference for engaging with the public and councillors internal staff to make sure we're all

3:30:25aligned in the strategy and recommendations support the needs of the community okay okay and so thank

3:30:32you for that but so that I understand the timelines procurement is q1 so we should have someone in

3:30:38place and sometime in may june we will know what that timeline is is that correct uh yes that's

3:30:47correct we'll we'll know the exact timelines by the time we get the proposals in and then

3:30:53we have a sturdy like comprehensive schedule for that okay okay I look forward to receiving that

3:30:59and thank you so much that's it for me thank you chair great thank you councillor or to you

3:31:04councillor croc thank you and uh I'm so happy to hear this coming forward I think there's probably

3:31:10if there was number one issue that we all as councillors hear about all the time it's on

3:31:16street parking downtown parking driveway widths whether whatever manifestation of a parking issue

3:31:22we get it on a regular basis so having this comprehensive city wire review is just something

3:31:28I'm really looking forward to especially the public engagement the robust plan that I know

3:31:32you'll bring forward so my question is one of the things I didn't see in the scope so I'm going to

3:31:38scope creep a little maybe add a little bit to your scope is um you talked about policy review

3:31:45with respect to driveway widths and and um the what streets and you know where we have different

3:31:53types of parking um but there's one piece of I believe it's in our land use policy and I don't

3:31:59think we have anyone here from planning perhaps Mr. Gaiman can address it but in our land use planning

3:32:06regulations you can't use your driveway to rent a parking spot to someone else you can let your

3:32:15neighbor borrow it but as soon as there's a financial transaction it's against our land

3:32:20use regulations I don't know if it's just a ward five thing but we have a lot of accessory apartments

3:32:27and rental housing and so um many of those tenants will park on the street until winter and then

3:32:34they will make a financial arrangement with their neighbor to park their street and park their car

3:32:40in their neighbor's driveway in order to get it off street if there's a financial transaction I

3:32:45believe that's against our bylaw so I just wonder if you could um expand your scope to include a

3:32:53review of that bylaw so that we don't have people illegally renting parking spaces or maybe with

3:32:59public engagement we find out that that that's something that our residents want to keep that

3:33:05in our bylaw but I think it should be added to your scope if that's agreeable to you.

3:33:11Through Madam Chair to um Councillor Caron uh thanks for the feedback appreciate it I believe

3:33:17this item is already uh in scope under our policy review so we're going to look into it and also do

3:33:23a best practice review of peer municipalities to see how they treat these situations so

3:33:29this item would be covered under that uh item of work yeah fantastic thanks so much very good

3:33:36question um okay it's legal yeah okay so over to you Coran and I confirm with our um planning staff

3:33:51that it is our land use regulations currently prohibit someone from selling a parking spot

3:33:57on their private property renting sorry renting a spot. Through the chair to excuse me to Councillor

3:34:08Coran uh I believe that that's correct and I'm not aware of a city bylaw that authorizes the

3:34:12renting or selling of parking spaces within a driveway at this time and again as part of the

3:34:17policy work that the team's going to undertake that that type of consideration is certainly

3:34:21something we're going to want to talk to the public about um particularly in the face of the

3:34:25competing demands and growth and intensification challenges that we're facing so um certainly

3:34:30that's something we're taking away. Thank you and I just wanted to comment that when you made your

3:34:36earlier remarks Councillor Caron there was a bit of a collective sigh of relief when when you expressed

3:34:44that you were grateful that this was uh uh coming forward the terms of reference so I just wanted

3:34:49to share that with our colleagues and uh anyone online who's listening um because I thought it

3:34:54was pertinent um okay uh the list is Gibson, Katen and then Chu. Gibson please. Yep thank you. And I

3:35:00see views to tell as well. Through you chair uh comments to staff on the document thanks very

3:35:06much I I don't want to oversell this to my constituents but I do welcome this to them

3:35:12because there's so many complexities with parking that I find a hard time I have a hard time answering

3:35:17their questions that they all have individual needs so creating a policy or a study a study like this

3:35:22allows them to engage bring their concerns forward. I just wanted to maybe give three themes that I've

3:35:28heard um in advance of public engagement you may hear this a lot maybe just be prepared for

3:35:34very warped one sort of centric thoughts are the thought of placing demand management where

3:35:41demand isn't in question so I'm thinking about public spaces like parks or the library the east

3:35:50and branch library or the vicar out rec center where those demands for parking are not in a deficit

3:35:58I I would struggle publicly um supporting and I think the public would generally not support

3:36:04bringing in a paid parking for um for areas where there's not a demand deficit so if there's a surplus

3:36:11of parking there's no big no big crunch on it not like the downtown where there is a shortage of

3:36:15parking but in it so we want to encourage turnover in those situations but in some situations

3:36:20where the residential areas are less populated I don't think that will be publicly supported

3:36:26I'm just flagging that for you I've heard that um in my ward second winter on street parking is a huge

3:36:33issue in residential areas we understand that so I'm happy that we're exploring it hopefully with

3:36:37permits um maybe a precursor to that if you have an on-street parking permit for the winter you need

3:36:44to be supporting us with your phone number so we can text you or get you in touch with you to get

3:36:48your car off the road in like a sort of a text blitz saying you need your car needs to be off the

3:36:52road tonight we're doing a plow out or something like that but I know that there's support for some

3:36:58bend in the winter on-street parking perhaps through an in winter on-street parking permit

3:37:03process the last one is sort of my hybrid ideal for ward one maybe other residential areas agree

3:37:10we all have the few houses on our street that as soon as the summer months come

3:37:15they park one or two vehicles on the road and effectively ask the public space to accommodate

3:37:20their needs um and everyone on the street has to serve around their car this parked on the

3:37:24street all summer long because that's what the demands of their family are are needing I don't

3:37:29begrudge that family I don't begrudge that household what I am saying though is that if you may maybe

3:37:35if you do need an extra parking spot we can introduce a permit process for that I feel like

3:37:39that's kind of where staff are exploring that being said my fear and what I've also heard in the

3:37:46community is like having to make calls on Easter or having to make calls for your kids pool party

3:37:53or your birthday parties or play dates or an overnight guest stay those should not be requiring

3:37:59phone calls to city hall to acquire individual overnight stay permits just because you're going

3:38:04to have three or four cars on your street for one night there's a delicate balance there I

3:38:10understand some people will use the street parking for the full on-street parking window of the summer

3:38:17and those people we can talk to and figure out a way to help help permit that sort of parking need

3:38:23but for the short-term parking I would hope that the policy can be robust enough and accommodating

3:38:30enough to allow for effective use of neighborhood streets that's maybe I'll leave it at that I

3:38:36think those are three messages that um my constituents if they went engaged will echo and

3:38:44do not outlaw road hockey that's all my comments thanks thank you Councillor Gibson

3:38:55I hope we we will not outlaw road hockey it was very important to me growing up in Guelph so

3:39:01it's out of scope put it on the list I should add road basketball too sorry I should have

3:39:05that too thank you for the basketball players amongst us and myself um okay uh thank you and

3:39:12Councillor Caden please thank you through you chair and staff um I have no questions I just

3:39:19want to give you your flowers I loved this process I thought this was so well done I really loved the

3:39:26um getting the feedback in advance for the seven councillors who didn't make it out to the info

3:39:32sessions you missed out they were so brilliantly put together things were being shuffled on the

3:39:37fly got to see your stuff going into categories it was amazing so I have full confidence that this

3:39:42team is going to get a great study done and all of the feedback from the folks it's been one of the

3:39:50biggest topics that I hear from my constituents and uh like the winter parking especially is

3:39:57something that I hear about a lot um and you've heard it all from me before so it's all on the

3:40:02report and I just really appreciate all of the work you've done on this thank you thank you

3:40:10councillor Caden councillor Chew please and then councillor Bustel thank you through you madam chair

3:40:18um just a quick question on the staff report um just the first point like can you help me

3:40:28just visualize what the zone base customization versus the ward base customization would look like

3:40:35and like how would that differ from context to context uh thanks for the question through

3:40:44madam chair to councillor Chew so at this time it's premature for us to comment on

3:40:50what approach the study would take in terms of defining different zones for parking or

3:40:55whether it's a word-based kind of approach so once the study initiates officially and

3:41:03we'll get the recommendations based on data then we can make you know data informed decisions in

3:41:08terms of um how it makes sense to approach defining different you know parking typologies

3:41:14or like different parking zones okay you know I appreciate that and I acknowledge too that this

3:41:20is still at a very high level but um I would just say that's something that interests me quite a lot

3:41:26because I think just acknowledgement that you know we have a very dispersed geography and the

3:41:32downtown and uh where councillor Gibson plays road hockey is very different from the south end

3:41:39and I would say too like there there might be a lot of opportunities to work with some of the

3:41:43commercial plazas just from like a piloting standpoint to see how we can optimize some of

3:41:48the parking because there are a lot of off hours in which um some of the parking spaces in the

3:41:54commercial lots are quite underutilized but I know there's a lot spillover especially on

3:41:58gauzing gardens with the student higher student population that could benefit from

3:42:03what kind of a shared use agreement of some sorts or even something that involves licensing

3:42:10I know that would probably take a lot of capacity to ground truth but it would be nice to see

3:42:17how things materially um like it would be nice to see how things on the ground could

3:42:24line up with how we better utilize our our our our geography that we have um and I think about

3:42:32the Salvation Army as a good example off Gordon Street there's a lot of parking that they have and

3:42:39there's a lot of times in which it's underutilized and unfortunately you have

3:42:43wanted to go police that are sitting there because there's not a lot of visibility but

3:42:48are there ways in which some of the condo corporations within the area could tap into some

3:42:55of these shared use of sorts um so I just speak at a high level I think there's a lot of ways in

3:43:01which we can be creative and and ways in which we can even learn from like Toronto for example

3:43:07because I know there are a lot of unique arrangements that they are very comfortable dealing with

3:43:15so it'd be interesting to see how we could take the study further so again thank you for this

3:43:19high level introduction and I look forward to more discussions on this topic

3:43:25Thank you Councillor Chew, Councillor Bustil please and then Mayor Guthrie

3:43:30Thank you and through you Madam Chair I just want to echo Councillor Caitens not that parking is

3:43:36fun but the session for councillors was fun thank you to the staff for that I do want to reiterate

3:43:42what Councillor Perron was saying about the flyers we see that in Ward 4 as well I did have a

3:43:51question in in the report it talks about technology and innovation and so the first

3:43:59bill it talks about license plate recognition but I didn't see the connection to later in the report

3:44:05on page five about enforcement and I know that I was chatting with Mayor Guthrie about Mississauga

3:44:12and how they have the license plate readers you drive by and automatically a ticket is sent

3:44:21from the reader so it's not get out print out go put on the windshield and that would be

3:44:27nice to see is that kind of can we stretch the technology

3:44:32the other thing is similar to what Councillor Gibson was saying I know I get a lot of complaints

3:44:40about cars parking overnight in a city parking lot park parking lot and when I followed up

3:44:49it is a caregiver for the building across the street and so I'm hoping that in this study that

3:44:56there is some kind of identification so residents say they report a problem car shouldn't be there

3:45:04you know the party it's some way to identify that this person has permission to be there there was

3:45:09nothing in the car to say don't report a problem which for me is a waste of resources and the last

3:45:17piece that I'd like to see in here and I know I had a conversation thank you Kyle today

3:45:23is about parking on the I think it's called the skirts between the road and the sidewalk and

3:45:30visibility lots of complaints about that and again it's around a new development in an area

3:45:38where there may be more elderly households and an inability to see because of parking on the driveway

3:45:45parking on the skirt and then also free parking on the road if that can be incorporated I think it

3:45:53is as part of the study but thank you for this looking forward to it thank you Councillor

3:45:59Boussatill Mayor Guthrie please thank you Madam Chair and through you just a few quick things

3:46:04hopefully the first one is in regards to the downtown so it was actually something I wanted

3:46:10to bring up today just to just to see that it does say that what's in scope is options for managing

3:46:16the high demand from residents like that's all fair employees visitors 100 percent

3:46:21um revaluation of the paid on-street parking models so um I guess I've just uh I'm a little bit

3:46:29concerned just only about what what should the expectations be I think I think that's where my

3:46:34question is because of the construction um and I could argue that you know once the downtown is done

3:46:44it's all beautiful and put back together like even is that the timing to consider any of the

3:46:51recommendations that would come in regards to some of the maybe on-street paid parking

3:46:59so I guess I'm just concerned that the timing of recommendations for that um

3:47:08if it's coming if it's coming out to actually institute that

3:47:17how clear is it going to be for council to make decisions at that time to delay pause defer

3:47:23stop I just want to make sure that we're not on a trajectory for a result that is known in advance

3:47:36through madam chair to mayor Guthrie first thanks for the feedback this issue was or this

3:47:44basically discussion was brought forward through our council engagement session so we're a bit

3:47:50and it's a fair comment so through the through the development of the city white parking strategy

3:47:56there is a task for the implementation plan so that implementation plan and strategy will

3:48:02have you know different items of action items under the implementation with time tags which

3:48:11through that work will consider you know a strategic timeline for if and how to you know

3:48:17implement different strategies again re-evaluating paid on-street parking doesn't mean we're

3:48:22introducing um paid on-street parking it's just one of the options among other options or tools for

3:48:31managing the demand and also as part of the work we're looking at sustainable financial model so

3:48:40again we can't really comment on whether this is an option or when it's coming but

3:48:45once we have the deliverables it will be presented to council and council will have an

3:48:49opportunity to comment on whether the timing is appropriate or not okay well I appreciate that

3:48:58I think it's important to have that out in the public realm as well as you've described it

3:49:02that this isn't a done deal in any in any case at all in any manner at all okay my second part

3:49:09is just around winter parking I'm gonna I'm gonna make a little bit of a a little bit of an educated

3:49:16guess here the winter parking issue has been something that many members of council we've all

3:49:21talked about it you know on and off for a few years now I remember my colleague here bringing

3:49:27emotion a term ago or two terms I can't remember about actually pretty much doing what's kind of

3:49:34being talked about in scope in this in this review my concern is that that this is coming forward in

3:49:422027 and so I'm wondering if there's a way within your scope can you ring to council prior to this

3:49:52coming year's budget and early sort of information on the winter response part so that we can be

3:50:00informed to potentially make differences for winter on street parking issues coming into the end of

3:50:072026 into 2027 winter season because if I look if I was to take a vote today I think with my colleagues

3:50:15here I kind of guessing we'd probably have enough votes to probably get rid of this issue now there

3:50:22is a revenue a problem with that just just so everyone knows because there's a revenue problem

3:50:27but I think I think there's enough kind of angst about this issue that waiting two more winter

3:50:35seasons to me seems a pretty long time when I think that there could be some validity to moving

3:50:42that forward so my question is within the scope can you bring this specific issue earlier to us

3:50:49so it can better inform the next winter season through you madam chair to mayor gulfrey that's

3:50:56something we can definitely take back and definitely consider trying to bring that forward it would

3:51:02uh take a lot of work between us as well as our public services team to be prepared by this fall

3:51:10but it's something we'll take away right now and consider trying to move that forward okay

3:51:16thank you take it away I appreciate that my follow my final comment is just uh

3:51:23seeing some what some other cities have done in implementing sort of on street parking and

3:51:28including a permitting system and I'm just wondering is that in scope of the revenue side

3:51:36options that could come from that of where the revenue goes so as an example there are some

3:51:43cities that have on street permits and 50 percent of the revenue that's created goes back to the city for

3:51:53parking garages that need to be constructed or something like that but the other 50 percent

3:51:58actually stays in the very neighborhood where the permits are for beautification for a new park

3:52:05for new infrastructure for a new trail so that the community that's paying the permitting system

3:52:12actually gets a little bit of some benefit right back to their own neighborhood is that something

3:52:19that's in scope about what to do with revenue if a permitting system is recommended so again

3:52:27I'm not trying to prejudge because I I don't know but if that's recommended and there's a revenue

3:52:32is there going to be options about what to do with that revenue okay through madam chair to

3:52:44mayor go three we can definitely consider that and as part of the work we definitely want to look

3:52:50we definitely want to look into reinvestment models so any type of revenue collected through the

3:52:56recommended financial model we would look into possible or like options options for

3:53:03reinvesting those revenues and portions of the revenue into infrastructure or future parking

3:53:09assets so that's part of the work okay as long as it's identified for options if that's if that's

3:53:15the outcome it's kind of like audits right you never prejudge an audit you never know what's

3:53:20going to come of it so I appreciate you taking those comments away and then I'm just going to

3:53:25echo my colleagues as a comment thank you very much this is a long time coming this we need our

3:53:31community desperately needs this we need some answers on this for sure I'm really glad you

3:53:36mentioned a lot of the provincial changes that are like some of this is really forced upon that

3:53:41but the other part of it is around housing too there is this kind of push pull with parking on

3:53:47street where there is a lot of changes because you want to in in-cent home ownership within like

3:53:55built up areas and you mentioned ad use or basement apartments or infill and stuff like that and so

3:54:02there's a housing component to this issue not just a vehicle component that I think is really a good

3:54:07takeaway that we have to make make some changes there too so I'm very glad that the scope identifies

3:54:12that too so yeah all the best and thank you very much for taking my comments away I appreciate it

3:54:18thank you mega three and I just saw that DCO gayman had a comment as well yeah thank you

3:54:23chair class and just for all of council just maybe a general comment around the way this process

3:54:27will work just to provide some comfort anything that's a future policy anything that's a financial

3:54:32model considerations about revenues reserves those types of things are will all be things that come

3:54:36back to council through this for future votes so just in case you know anyone's wondering you know

3:54:41when is that opportunity coming just to be super clear that those opportunities all come back to

3:54:47the this horseshoe thank you and with that I will just say that you know I think merit got

3:54:56three said it I just want to echo everyone you know you brought great feedback and thank you

3:55:01to staff for the excellent process I feel that the terms of reference reflect the concerns that

3:55:08I've heard from more two residents over the past three and a half years and I'm not going to list

3:55:13them because they're in in in the document so thank you very much and I would like to call

3:55:20the vote and is anyone against accepting the terms of reference I'm seeing no one opposed so that

3:55:29carries unanimously thank you to staff and thank you to my colleagues and thank you for

3:55:38spending the last few hours here with infrastructure development and environment

3:55:44we are moving into I don't believe that there are any service chair announcements on from my part

3:55:50DC O'Gaman I don't think that we we discussed anything else and with that I'd like to call

3:55:56adjournment I'm looking for someone to move Mayor Guthrie and Councillor Caton and anyone opposed

3:56:07no one that carries thank you very much have a wonderful evening