Council Planning

6:40Good afternoon everyone. It is October the 8th, 2024 at four o'clock which means I'm going to call

6:47this meeting to order. Thank you very much for joining us for our planning meeting. Right off

6:52the top, I'm going to just ask if you're if you're able to stand as we recognize our national anthem.

6:57Great, thank you and now just a moment of silent reflection. Thank you and now our tariff for

8:40acknowledgement. As we gather, let us take time to reflect on the privilege that we have to live

8:45and work here in Guelph, a city built over rich and dissonant histories. We are guests here and

8:50we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, people who live here today and the

8:55generations to come. For actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause

9:00and make those decisions with intention and gratitude. This place we call Guelph has served

9:06excuse me as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time,

9:11but more specifically the Aniwana Rock and the Honolenshoni. This land is held as the

9:16treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly

9:21adjacent to the Haldeman Tract and is part of a long-established traditional hunting grounds

9:25for the six nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations Inuit and Métis people who have come

9:31from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. And with that, I'll just ask my colleagues on

9:39council here if there's any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the

9:45items in front of us. We'll see you're here Annie, so we'll continue on. We have a consent agenda in

9:54front of us here. The first one being 302 and 306 Enboro Road South which is an application to remove

10:02properties from the municipal heritage register. Does anyone need to pull that? No, okay. And we

10:09also have the grant opportunity endorsement request for the community sport and recreation

10:14infrastructure fund applications and that's specific to Lions pool rehabilitation for that area.

10:21Does anyone need to pull that one? Oh, Councillor Caton, give a question on that one for a staff member?

10:30Yes, I do. Okay, let me just ask if I can have 302 and 306 Enboro Road moved then for me.

10:39All right, Alt and Koran. And I'll call the vote on that. Is there anyone against that removal?

10:49Seeing none, so that passes. May I just ask Councillor Caton, is this something I need to

10:58put at the very end of the agenda because I have some delegations or is it something quick?

11:04No, it's fast. Okay, go for it. Thanks. Through you to staff, I believe Ms. Clackbush,

11:12I was just wondering in the accessibility review that will come with this, will there be any

11:19consideration towards making the pool saltwater because we do not have any yet in the city?

11:26To the mayor to Councillor Caton, certainly as part of our review, we will look at accessibility

11:31options that are possible within the scope of the budget for this project. We have not done any

11:36detailed investigation at this time and we're going to do that quickly. I do want to just caution that

11:42there is a timeline that we're under in terms of time pressure because we do have to submit this

11:49application in about two and a half weeks. So we have to be very clear about the scope of work

11:54when we do submit this application, but we will through staff look at all of those options for

12:00how we can consider accessibility at this location. Great, thank you very much. All right, thank you,

12:07Councillor Caton. Seeing that, could I have someone move a motion to try to see if we can get some

12:14funding for that pool? Boosatil and O'Rourke? Okay, great. Well, let's cross our fingers on this one.

12:21Hopefully, I'm going to call the vote, but no one's against that, right? Good. Okay, that was an easy

12:27one. So if the province is listening to us, please give us that money. Please, I said please. Yes,

12:36thank you. That's good. Okay, we're going into the next section. That's it for our consent.

12:42So we're now going to go into the next section, which is for our public meetings. And the first

12:49one we have up is for 8 Mitchell Street, which is a proposed zoning bylaw. And we're going to have a

12:57presentation from one of our own planners. And then we have one, two, three, four, we got five

13:03delegations that have signed up in advance for this item. Eric, you're at the podium. I will

13:10turn it over to you to kind of give us a presentation on this before we move forward. Further, go ahead.

13:16Thank you, Mr. Mayor. Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie, members of the City Council, staff, and members

13:22of the public. The City has received an application for a zoning bylaw amendment from Van Hart and

13:27Surveying to rezone the property known municipally as 8 Mitchell Street to permit the development of

13:32two semi-detached dwellings with four semi-detached dwelling units, uh, um, running onto Arthur

13:39Street on four separate lots. The applicant's intention is to provide two additional dwelling

13:43units on each of those lots within the main structure for a total of 12 dwelling units on

13:48the subject lands. Today's meeting is a statutory public meeting, uh, required under the Planning

13:53Act, and no decisions will be made on that, this application, uh, today. The subject site is an

14:01existing through lot with approximately 28 meters of frontage on Mitchell Street and 37 meters of

14:06frontage on Arthur Street North. The site is located west of Aramosa Road, and a former church building

14:12fronting onto Mitchell Street currently occupies the site. The subject lands are immediately bound

14:17on all sides by low density residential dwellings as well as one convenience commercial building

14:23located to the east fronting onto Aramosa. The lot has a size of approximately 1,815 square meters.

14:32The subject property is designated as low density residential in the official plan.

14:36This land use designation applies to residential areas within the city, which are low density in

14:40character. The low density residential designation is intended to provide a variety of low density

14:46residential housing forms and types, including detached, semi-detached, duplex dwellings,

14:52as well as multiple unit residential dwellings such as townhouses and apartment buildings.

14:56A small number of non-residential uses like the previous place of worship use are also permitted.

15:04The subject lands are zoned neighborhood institutional and I in the 2023 comprehensive

15:09zoning bylaw. The surrounding properties are all zoned low density residential RL1, except for one

15:15convenience commercial property fronting onto Aramosa Road that you can see just to the south

15:19of the subject property on the site. A portion of the subject lands are located in the zoning

15:24bylaws floodplain overlay. The portion of the lands closer to Arthur Street North. Development within

15:30this floodplain overlay is permitted, provided that the specific area flood proofing requirements

15:35are met as established by the Grand River Conservation Authority. The zoning bylaw amendment

15:42to change the zoning of the lands from neighborhood institutional and I to low density residential

15:47RL1 is required to facilitate the proposed development. The proposed development largely

15:57conforms to the RL1 zone as passed by council in April of 2023. However, as portions of the

16:03bylaw remain under appeal, 11 site specific provisions that actually conform with the RL1

16:08zone as passed by council are required. I can go into further detail on these if requested,

16:14but to be clear, these provisions are identical to those required in the RL1 zone as passed by

16:20council last year. These 11 site specific provisions are required as they're currently

16:24under appeal with the Ontario Land Tribunal. The following two provisions are the only

16:33requested site specific provisions that do not conform with the RL1 zone as passed by council

16:37last year. These are firstly that the front line shall be the Arthur Street frontage and the rear

16:43lot line shall be the Mitchell Street frontage of the properties, whereas the bylaw currently

16:48recognizes both frontages on a through lot as front lot lines. And secondly that the second

16:54ADU may contain a maximum of four bedrooms, whereas the bylaw currently limits ADUs to two

16:59bedrooms in size or two bedrooms in size unless they are located within a basement, in which case

17:04three bedrooms may be permitted. Here you can see the proposed site plan for the development

17:12with Mitchell Street at the top of the screen and Arthur Street north at the bottom of the screen.

17:16The existing structure on the site would be removed and two semi-detached buildings

17:20would be constructed at fronting onto Arthur Street. Each of the four lots would be through lots

17:25and have frontage on both Mitchell Street and Arthur Street north. Here's a bit of a zoom in on the

17:34site plan. Each of the four lots would have five meter wide driveways and attached garages, allowing

17:40for three legal parking spaces per lot. This would meet the zoning bylaw's minimum parking

17:45requirements of one space per unit for the main dwellings and the two ADUs per lot that are proposed.

17:54Here's a potential proposed building rendering and a second option.

18:01Staff's review of this application will address the following issues. The evaluation of the

18:06proposal's conformity and consistency to the 2024 provincial policy statement, evaluation of the

18:12proposal's conformity with the official plan, review of the proposed zoning, review of the built

18:17form compatibility with adjacent and established land uses, review of supporting documents submitted

18:22with the development application, review how the proposed development addresses applicable sections

18:27of the community energy initiative update, review alignment with the city's affordable housing

18:33strategy and address all comments and issues raised during the review of this application.

18:38Once the application is reviewed and all issues have been addressed,

18:42staff report with the recommendation will be considered at a future meeting of council.

18:47Any issues raised at today's public meeting, either verbally or in writing, will be noted by

18:52planning staff for future consideration as we evaluate and review this application. And if

18:57anyone in attendance at tonight's meeting wishes to stay informed via regular mail of the application,

19:02including when the application is scheduled to return to council for a decision, please make sure

19:06that you provide your contact information to the clerk's office via email at clerks at wealth.ca

19:12or by calling 519-837-5609. Thank you very much and I'll be pleased to answer any questions council

19:19may have. Great, thank you very much. As is normal, I'll save questions for staff until after

19:27delegations. Okay, but thank you very much for your presentation to sort of set the stage here

19:32of what's in front of us. As I said, we have a few delegations and under this section,

19:39individuals would have up to 10 minutes if they wish to speak for this matter. Okay,

19:44doesn't mean you have to take the full 10 minutes, but you can if you if you wish.

19:48After we're done with that, I'll also do an open call to see if there's anyone else that needs to

19:52add anything that's new to the discussion. So coming to us in person is Jeff Buseman

20:01from Van Hart and surveying and not here, but you are Chris. Okay, because you're next on

20:08list Chris Krosky from Van Hart and surveying is coming over. May I just ask then is Jeff just not

20:15here tonight then? It's only you. Okay, okay, I'll just cross that name off the list then.

20:20Okay, and is Marcel here? Okay, you're in the wings. Okay, so you'll be up next.

20:27So again, no more than 10 minutes. You'll hear a chime at the nine minute 30 second mark just to

20:34kind of give you that 30 second warning. And then I'll ask the clerk actually from here on out that

20:40at the 10 minute mark we can turn off the microphone. So there's no no more speaking at the 10 minute

20:45mark. So go ahead, Chris over to you. Okay, thank you, Mr. Mayor. I know some of you, not all of you.

20:51My name is Chris Krosky. I'm a land use planner. And I'm acting on behalf of eight Mitchell Street

20:58Inc. which is the who are the proponents of this application. And I thought Eric did a very good

21:05job summarizing basically what the request is. And I just wanted to reinforce a few points.

21:14First of all, the site is designated low density residential and what we're proposing are

21:21two semi detached structures each containing two dwellings with related ad use. That complies with

21:29the low density residential designation of the property. The requested zoning that we've asked

21:36for is RL one and the zoning schedule is briefly up on the screen. Most of this neighborhood and

21:44quite a few neighborhoods in the city are zoned RL one. And that is the category that we're

21:50requesting here. We have requested a few special regulations. Really, most of those except for

22:00the two that Eric mentioned, are regulations verbatim from the new city of golf zoning bylaw

22:082023 20970. And the reason we're having to request those is because parts of the new bylaw

22:17are not yet in effect or approved because they're still under appeal. So basically we're mirroring

22:24those regulations that would apply if the bylaw was approved and in effect.

22:31In submitting the application, I have taken a look at the policy applicable to the site and to the

22:37application both at the provincial level as well as the official plan. And I believe that the

22:43application does conform with upper tier policy in the provincial policy statement and the growth

22:50plan as well as the planning act. And at the local level, I believe it complies with the official

22:57plan. Eric noted that he'll be reviewing the application under the new provincial policy

23:05statement, which comes into effect on October 20th of 2024. So not long from now. And I've taken a

23:14look at that as well. And I believe we fully conform and comply with that. And that the new policy

23:21document contains very supportive language for the type of proposal that this is, which is infill

23:28and intensification section 2313 says planning authority shall support general intensification

23:35and redevelopment to support the achievement of complete communities, including by planning for

23:41a range and mix of housing options. And that's what's proposed here. I would also note that

23:48ADU's additional dwelling units are permitted as of right in the old bylaw and in the new bylaw.

23:56And this application does include two ADU's each within the semi detached units. So there will

24:07be a total of 12 one semi unit with two ADU's times four. The official plan actually encourages

24:16intensification on lots such as this and states that 46% of all new housing in the city is to occur

24:26within the existing built up area. And that's that's a definition within the official plan.

24:31And this property is within the existing built up area. And I had it's also a very quick walk

24:38to the downtown, which has its own status in terms of planning that further encourages intensification.

24:48Aside from the official plan in the zoning bylaw, the city's been very active in terms of encouraging

24:53this type of development. There was a housing pledge March 10th 2023, where there was a commitment

25:01to try and add 18,000 new housing units by 2031. And that's quite ambitious.

25:09Historically, you know, the maximum number of building permits issued within the city,

25:15if you use that number and apply that going forward to 2031, you wouldn't hit the number

25:21that you want. So, you know, I think an intensification application like this

25:27addresses what the city's identified as a key need. And one of the comments in that housing pledge

25:35was one of the strategies to try and implement this 18,000 new units was to finalize your new

25:41zoning bylaw, which you now have done for the most part, aside from those sections

25:47that are under appeal. And really that bylaw sets a framework for intensification. It permits

25:54various unit types within the RL1 zone, single semis, and some even higher density type units

26:01and that. So, this application fits, as I mentioned, exactly within the zoning framework that the

26:08city has adopted, and that is almost approved with those two minor exceptions. In closing,

26:15we believe that this application delivers the type of intensification proposal that the city

26:22is inviting through your official plan, which encourages it, and through your zoning bylaw,

26:28which sets a framework for it. Thank you. Thank you very much for your presentation.

26:36Any follow-up at this time? Councillor Klassen, and then Koran, and then Alt, and then Guller.

26:43Yes, through you, Mr. Mayor, to the delegate. I just had a question with regard to the units

26:51and how they're laid out within each semi-detached unit. So, I think I heard that there's

26:5712 dwelling units. Would that mean there's three per building, or are there?

27:03Well, because there are semis, the semi-structure contains two units,

27:08which is then severed down the middle. So, there's two semi-structures, each with two units, so

27:14there's four, and each of those units will contain two ADUs within. Okay, so the main dwelling unit

27:24and then the two extras, so there are three, like one on each level. Yes, okay, thanks. I just wanted

27:29to clarify that piece, and I think that was all. Thank you.

27:37Great, thank you, Councillor. Councillor, Koran, and then Alt.

27:41Thank you for my question, and I just want to clarify, and the back of the property that

27:49offers onto Mitchell, is that suitable under R01, or is that going to be based? What is the

28:00plan for rear Mitchell frontage? Is there an additional future planned at a 4-3-U, the later date?

28:11What we've applied for is to have the entire property rezoned to R01,

28:18and we are not proposing any additional development on the Mitchell frontage as part of this application.

28:31Can you help me understand then what the Mitchell frontage would just be fenced back?

28:39Well, initially it would be landscaped, and that would be it, and the one existing lot of today,

28:50in order to accommodate the semis, would be severed into four separate parcels,

28:57and each of those four separate parcels would go basically extend from Arthur up to Mitchell Street,

29:03and yeah, there would be nothing on the Mitchell frontage other than landscaping.

29:10Okay, I'm just trying to, maybe this is a question for staff, I'm just trying to get an idea whether

29:16there's enough land for you then to sever the back portion to create a separate lot on Mitchell.

29:26But you're saying that that's not your intent at this time?

29:29No, no, Councillor, it's not part of this application.

29:33Okay, thank you. Councillor Allt and then Guller.

29:43I'm just going to turn off my video. I'm a bit concerned about the additional dwelling units.

29:52As I am considering this application, it strikes me that this will have a significant impact

30:00on the character of the neighbourhood, transforming it with the inevitability of Conestoga College

30:06coming down in town into, as much as anything else, a dormitory for Conestoga College.

30:14I'm equally concerned about the traffic off Arthur Street, as that is a challenging intersection

30:21already, and I'm wondering as a consequence of both of those, if we could have some comments

30:27on intensification and on whether these are intended to be rentals by room?

30:35With respect to intensification, as I mentioned, I reviewed all the policies,

30:42including those that relate to compatibility, and I visited the street. I've lived in Guelph

30:49since the mid-1980s. The street is described in the Planning Justification Report as

30:58kind of a very eclectic mix of dwelling types. There's some bungalows, there's some

31:06two or two and a half storey dwellings, there are some apartment type structures very close by,

31:12and so there is quite a mix. The definition of addability, which is contained within the official

31:22plan, says development or redevelopment, which may not necessarily be the same as, or even similar

31:30to, the existing development, but can coexist with the surrounding area without unacceptable

31:37adverse impact. I think that that definition puts a little bit of context to a fairly subjective

31:46consideration of what fits and what doesn't fit. There'll be semi-detached dwellings. Clearly,

31:54in my mind, those are compatible with what's on the street in terms of unit types. The look of

32:01the dwellings, there'll be larger structures, and Eric showed the renderings. There are a mix of

32:09house sizes on the street as well, some larger, some smaller, so again, I don't think it's really

32:15out of character in that respect. Parking, what I know is that we comply with the zoning by-law.

32:25One space per unit is required, and based on the preliminary plan that we've got,

32:33we can meet that, we can meet that reg, we can meet that requirement. In terms of renting by the room,

32:42I mean, I didn't look at the application from that perspective. I looked at it based on the type

32:49of unit that's being proposed, and I know that that complies with the by-law and with the official

32:55plan, and I can't really answer the question on how it's going to be rented, or it will be a rental,

33:04they will be rental properties, but I'm not sure how the proponent plans to rent them out.

33:16Thank you very much. Caller, then a Rourke. Thank you, and thank you Mayor Guthrie.

33:24Thank you to the delegate for your presentation. I do agree that we need more densification,

33:33and that we need more housing units. I think the question here is taking the lot and divided

33:37into four lots, supposed to say three lots, and the impact that that would have, in particularly,

33:46as other folks mentioned on the character of the street, and I think what I'm hearing from people

33:54is the concern about parking. If you were to build a foreplex in that space without subdividing it,

34:02you would have x number of cars. By having several units, there will be that many more

34:09vehicles on the streets. Have you done a traffic impact study or a parking impact study to determine

34:16whether dividing this lot into four separate lots is appropriate for that street?

34:22Councillor, we have a pre-consultation meeting with the city. I don't believe traffic was one of

34:33the requested studies as identified by staff, so we haven't. No.

34:40Okay, okay, that's fair. Thank you very much. Thank you, Worship.

34:45Thank you, Councillor Oroarke, then Downer. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Mr. Krosky,

34:50through you, Mayor Guthrie, can you just help me understand, in this oath, and we've got a couple

34:56of similar designs, but there's an ADU in the yard, right? Is that what you're proposing here?

35:01Because I heard you answer, Councillor Klassen, are the three units in the same half of the semi?

35:12Yes. Okay, all right, so there's no separate accessory building? No, none is proposed.

35:19Okay, one of my colleagues, through you, Mayor Guthrie, one of my colleagues asked you about

35:23the layout. Do you have an idea of how many total bedrooms are going to be in each unit?

35:31I don't have a floor plan, and I mean, at this point, any floor plan would be sort of preliminary.

35:40We're really just trying to address the zone change component. I can definitely

35:49discuss with the proponent if there are floor plans available and share those with staff.

35:55Okay, and then through you, Mayor Guthrie, my last question really is, you're asking for,

36:01well, I'll have to, that you're asking for one of the ADUs to have four units, and I don't have a

36:06good sense of the size of this property. So, excuse me, but the one parking space per ADU

36:13is based on the two bedrooms, right? So, do you have any ability to increase the parking that's

36:19available on site? And I'm just reflecting back to you what we're hearing in our community.

36:25You know, essentially, it's another ADU, right? But you're doubling the number of people there. So,

36:31is there capacity on the site to add parking? That's something that we could look at. I know,

36:37you know, some sites lend themselves to maybe shifting the building back a little bit further.

36:43So, you know, you get the one spot within the garage for the main unit, and then they're,

36:49for each unit, would have two stacked spaces behind the garage.

36:55Or no, sorry, they'd be two side by side because they're five meter driveways.

37:00If you could push the unit back enough, which is something we could perhaps look at,

37:06then you could get one in the garage, two side by side in behind the garage,

37:11and then another two before the road allowance. I'm not sure, based on the grades, if there's room

37:17to do that, but that would be one thing we could take a look at. Okay. Three, thank you. I think

37:25the folks in the neighborhood would really appreciate that. My other question was with

37:29respect to the size of the garage, you said that's in compliance with the zoning bylaw.

37:36I'm just wondering what the plan is for the storage of all the waste containers,

37:40because you've got three units on each side, right? So,

37:46like, is there an intention on where those will be? Again, just feedback that we're hearing from

37:51concerns on other projects, similar projects. Fair enough. And again, we're kind of in early

37:58stages in terms of the actual, what is going to be physically constructed. So, I, to be honest,

38:05I don't know that we have thought about that specific part of this, but I can tell you that I

38:14know the company will retain a property management service that will help, not just with landscaping,

38:22but manage basically the look of the property to be sure that they're sort of neat and tidy.

38:29Great. Okay. Thanks, Meg. Great. Thank you. I have Downer and then Busatil and that's all on my list.

38:38Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor. So, Chris, I'm just reading from the staff report on the

38:44provisions. So, and I know you, how you answered Councillor O'Rourke's question, but this is sort

38:50of confusing me, given your answer. So, that it says that a maximum of two additional residential

38:55units be permitted on a lot, one within the same building as the primary dwelling unit,

39:01and one located in a separate building on the same lot, or two additional residential units

39:08within the primary dwelling unit. Trying to square that with what you just said,

39:14like there's nothing else on the lot. Right. I think it's an either or, the by-law provision,

39:19you can have two ADUs, one internal and one external, or you can have two both internal.

39:27I'll check with staff, but they're making that consistent then with our by-law with this.

39:32Yeah. So, we're proposing the latter two ADUs within the same unit.

39:36Okay. I was just kind of square what you'd said. Great. Thank you.

39:42Great. Thank you. And just your microphone there, Councillor Downer. And last is Councillor

39:47Bousetel. Thank you. I am familiar with the property. My kids did Suzuki School in the church

39:53for many years. So, just a question. I'm a little bit confused because, you know, the word on the

39:57street is, the developer is Spruce Living. And I thought I heard, and I gone back into the,

40:03it's Eight Mitchell Corporation. Is that correct? Or is it Spruce Living and?

40:07Sorry, Eight Mitchell Street, Inc. is the proponent. Okay. All right. And I just heard you as well.

40:17So, the intention here is that the property, these will all be rentals.

40:23Correct. Yes. Okay. And then the last question, I'll ask this of staff as well,

40:27is I'm familiar with the property and the slope there and the comment about the GRCA and making

40:33the units flood proof. And my question is about the, I guess you talked about the slope there.

40:41Is there an opportunity to move the units back? Does that improve the potential flooding?

40:49And are the garages also going to be flood proof? If you can just provide a little bit

40:54more detail. I'm not familiar on how or if that's possible to do, to change the site. So, that

41:00potential flooding doesn't happen on the Arthur Street. Okay. As a general comment,

41:09you know the property, you know that it slopes upward from Arthur to Art Mitchell. So,

41:15theoretically, the further back you push it, the better it would be for flood relief.

41:22Regardless of where it is, it would have to be above the floodline. Habitable rooms,

41:28I'm not sure the garage has to be. But in any event, I think the intention is to ensure that

41:35the entire building is above the flood level as defined by the GRCA. Thank you. That's all.

41:46Great. Thank you very much. Appreciate answering all that. Appreciate your presentation. Thank you.

41:53Marcel, Marcel, am I saying this right? Sclaf? Okay. The way, the way, I meant to say it the way

42:00you said it there. And Sarah? Is Sarah here? Yes. Okay. Sorry, I got to get my glasses on.

42:09You are in the wings. Okay. And the nor is the nor here? Okay. Great. So, that's the three that

42:17I have remaining that have signed up. So, thank you and welcome. And you have the microphone and you

42:22have up to 10 minutes if you need it. Okay. Go right ahead. Mayor Guthrie, counselors, ladies and

42:26gentlemen, first of all, thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak here today. My name is

42:30Marcel Schlaf. I live at 166 Arthur Street North, which is actually directly opposite of the proposed

42:35site. I understand that there's enormous pressure to build more housing. So many more people have

42:40moved to Canada in the last few years. And I do not object to any reasonable development and would

42:44in fact welcome it, welcome it, provided that it actually fits into the character of the neighborhood

42:48that is any development must also consider the already existing structures organically grown

42:52over the last 100 plus years. It does not too negatively impact on the people who have lived

42:56there and paid taxes for decades. I think that's basic fairness. A little bit of historic and

43:01historical geographic context. So it's an old neighborhood with no structure remotely like the

43:05two new two new massive buildings proposed anywhere in the neighborhood. The heritage committee is

43:11supposed to consider the neighborhood for heritage citizen in your future after they finished assessing

43:15the ward and many on the street, how this on the streets, including our own over 100 years old.

43:20Now, the development is labeled as low density. However, in the context of the actual spatial

43:26features of the site and the street, this is in my mind complete nonsense. In the context of the

43:30neighborhood, this is in fact a very high density with by my estimate at least 40 bedrooms and

43:35therefore likely 40 plus residents on a single lot. That's not low density. Furthermore, in one

43:42paragraph, the PJR says that no further development is planned for Partials 123 due to GRC regulations.

43:47But in the very next paragraph, the PJR, it says that further discussions with the GRC will try

43:52to change that. So what are we to make of that? It sounds to me like they're planning to shoehorn

43:58more structures on Partials 123 later on. The proposed structures have no green space whatsoever

44:05and will also destroy some of the extant old growth tree canopy, which is in direct opposition to

44:10what the city is supposedly championing at this point, meaning grow more trees.

44:15Loss of green space and addition of large roof spaces triggers fast runoff,

44:20which will likely lead to more flooding on the street, which already happens during large

44:24thunderstorms and it's bound to get worthless climate change. Now, I personally have lived

44:29through this where I've been personally on the street knee deep in water, shoveling garbage out

44:32of the drainage holes to make sure that the water doesn't come over the curb and flood into the houses

44:37on the south side of the street, including ours. So as far as the traffic goes and things like that,

44:44Arthur Street North is very narrow, effectively one lane street with therefore already very

44:48constricted traffic. The south side of the street used for on street parking,

44:51and much more on this issue in a moment, the proposed structures do not fit into the spatial

44:56and geographical reality and would be more suited to a larger wider street. I think a more reasonable

45:00and fitting and even welcome development would be three to four single family homes similar to

45:05fill infill constructed on other lots in the neighborhood in recent years or a series of

45:09low rise townhouses. All of this brings me to the most disconcerting issue, which is in fact parking.

45:15In my understanding, the proposed structures will provide a total of two garages and four

45:20relatively narrow outdoor parking spaces, two of which will effectively block the garages.

45:25Again, with an estimated total of 40 or more residents, one can project that there will be a

45:29lot more cars than six owned by these residents. Where will they park? Where will any visitors go

45:35with their cars? So on the street, at present, street parking regulations are two hours per day

45:42on a day Monday to Friday between 0800 and 700 hours and no restrictions on weekends or outside

45:48of these times. Also, there's no parking between two in the morning and six in the morning during

45:52the winter month. However, these regulations are fairly enforced in the street is routinely parked

45:56full all day and all night. I submitted some visual evidence of that to the councils by email

46:02earlier. We counted a total of 12 street parking lots on the street between Aramosa and Norwich

46:08with five historical houses having no driveways. Because of this, we and our neighbors at 164 and

46:12others have all day and year round parking permits for which we pay the city. However,

46:17coming when we come home from work after 1700 hours, you often find that the street is already

46:21full. That is, we have to park far away so that others who either do not live there, for instance,

46:26visitors to the Pilates studio or downtown or have driveways, but do park on the street for

46:31convenience can do so. And all this is before another 40 plus residents are added to the street.

46:38This will inevitably mean that we who live there and will have nowhere to go, the situation will

46:43be worse in the winter when there's no banks and packs on the streets. And I believe the situation

46:48on Mitchell Street was similarly dire. This has serious implications because ultimately what this

46:54could mean for people is no parking equals no car means I can't live there because I can't have a

46:59job if I don't have a car that I need to go to work. This law so, of course, be true for any new

47:04residents. So how is this supposed to work? Will the city issue parking permits for another 10 or

47:13more residents on Arthur Street? I can foresee the argument, oh, the majority of any new residents

47:18will not have vehicles anyway. But this is in my anticipation completely naive and nonsense because

47:24almost everyone has a car these days, even students and I'm a professor, I know that,

47:29and they need the cars to conduct their lives and their work. So the question is,

47:34where do they go? So I've submitted earlier in writing some comments of what counter arguments

47:41would be. So why don't we just get parking in the public parking lots and across Aramosa at the

47:46end of the street by the Norwich Bridge? And this would not be fair because in fact it would be

47:53careless because it would mean that people who don't live there and don't pay taxes on the street

47:58would be given preference for parking over actual long-time residents who are also, by the way,

48:03prime customers for downtown businesses within walking distance. So it would mean that elderly

48:07residents or would have to haul their shopping through the snow for hundreds of meters or parents,

48:13their kids. So all of that so that some other people who don't live there can park. So this,

48:20of course, is always not limited to our street as a more general issue because I think in the

48:24downtown court there's a number, not very many, but there's a significant number of houses that face

48:30the same issues. So I think in the long run the city should reconsider how on-street parking

48:37permits are issued and maybe consider giving dedicated parking spots to residents who actually

48:44live there. And this is very important in the long run because we're all supposed to switch to

48:48electric cars. Now this only works if you can charge your car. And in particular in the winter

48:53you actually have to charge your car overnight because you actually have to heat the battery to

48:56charge it. I can tell you that's true as a chemist. So the status quo of how residential

49:03parking permits for on-street parking are handled is no longer working, at least not in the next

49:07five to ten years. So this is a good opportunity to change this or start changing this right now.

49:12So to summarize, we heard the presentation from the representative from 8 Mitchell Street, Inc.

49:19So I got to use my favorite Canadian word, not withstanding, one size fits all legal and planning

49:24definitions. The development as proposed is in the special and historic context of the neighborhood.

49:29In fact, the high density and totally unsuitable for the site and the neighborhood.

49:33And the traffic and parking realities will make life very difficult for people who already live

49:38there if you add this many people and their cars without changing regulations or giving

49:43dedicated parking spots. So also the development as proposed will destroy quite a few old trees

49:50that have been there for a long time. And I think some other delegates will speak to that in more

49:54detail, create a lot more fast runoff with the potential to cross flooding of our houses

50:01on the south side of the street. So overall this parking issue has the potential to completely

50:07change the livability for us on the street and make basically life impossible because again,

50:13ultimately what this could mean for residents, if you can't have a parking, you can't have a car.

50:17If you can't have a car, your whole life gets very difficult, especially if you need the car to get

50:22to and from work or to conduct other business or just your life in general. So from our perspective,

50:28solutions would be build something else that has lower density with fewer residents and actually

50:33fits into the character of the neighborhood or provide a lot more parking and including for

50:40visitors to the site, whatever gets built. And ultimately in terms of looking in the future,

50:48five to 10 years out or even right now, give residents who have historic homes which make

50:53wealth such a beautiful place to live in the opportunity to have dedicated parking and put

50:58in chargers. And this is not a, this is a simple technical issue. And because for instance, our,

51:03in our case, we would have bought an electric car years ago, but when we asked for this years ago,

51:07and I think Councillor Goller can speak to that, we were basically so, no, this is not going to

51:11happen. But I think this thinking has to change. If we go to electric cars, it has to change.

51:18Thank you for your attention. All right. And thank you for your presentation. Just one second.

51:22I'll just ask if there's any follow up there. Okay. There is there is a with Councillor Klassen.

51:27Go ahead. Yes. Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, to the delegate Mr. Schlaff. Thank you for your

51:32delegation. I just had one question. You mentioned neighborhood character a number of times and I

51:38know this area, it's a historical area. But what, what does that mean to you? Like, what would you

51:43like to see from a structural point of view? Maybe, I mean, you did mention either three or four

51:49single family homes or low rise townhouses, but from a neighborhood character perspective,

51:53I don't think that's necessarily how many units or how many people live there. So I just wanted

51:58to hear a little bit more about that. Yeah. I didn't mean to imply any nimbyism in a sense,

52:02but the structures are very large with no green space. And if you look at them,

52:08the sizes of the houses, this is a very different kind of development that you more likely would

52:12find on a large thoroughfare. Okay. So it's primarily a comment with regard to the size.

52:18Yeah. I mean, the big concern is the number of residents and the cars that they will bring,

52:22regardless of this idea that, okay, this is going to be rental and they won't have cars,

52:26this is naive, because I know that students have cars and they use them to make money as

52:31Uber drivers or whatever. So everybody has a car. We're in North America. That's just the way it's

52:36going to be. Yeah. Thank you. Appreciate that. All right. Thank you. Seeing nothing further.

52:42Thank you very much. Sarah, you are up next. You're coming up here and then Lenora is in the wings.

52:59Sarah Wutun, thank you very much for coming and the microphone is over to you. Go right ahead.

53:05Okay. Good evening, Mayor Guthrie, counselors and other attendants. So actually, Marcel did a

53:11really great job of summarizing all the issues that we are faced in the neighborhood, but

53:16maybe just reiterate some of these. So my name is Sarah Wutun and I'm a resident of 164 Arthur

53:21Street. So I am a neighbor of Marcel and Linda and I live directly across from the proposed

53:25development. And there are four major issues or issues that I'd like to bring up. One is the

53:31parking. Two is the traffic. Three is the fit with the neighborhood. And then four is the impact on

53:37the tree canopy. So Marcel did a very good job of describing the issue with parking. So again,

53:41there are five houses that are historic homes that do not have driveways. And as a consequence,

53:47we pay for parking. And at this point in time, there are 12 to 13 spots that are available.

53:53And usually by 5pm, when you get home, you're able to get a spot, but there's about one or two spots

53:58that are open. So this is not sustainable with the addition of 20 to 40 people moving into these

54:05units. Again, it was very vague in the outline that was provided by the city, but you can count

54:10anywhere from 20 to 40 bedrooms. So a couple solutions for that are as Marcel alluded to,

54:17we could have dedicated parking for the five residents on the street that don't have driveways,

54:22or there could potentially be put, there could be a parking lot put at the back of the property. So

54:28that could be entered through Mitchell Street and that can include visitor parking as well.

54:33So there are solutions to this problem and it definitely is a problem. And this is not just

54:38an issue from Arthur Street. This is also going to trickle down to King Street to Mitchell Street

54:43to Norwich. So this will affect the entire neighborhood. The traffic issue, yeah, that

54:49I that is actually a major issue. So if anyone has tried to turn on or turn off, turn from Arthur

54:55Street on to Aramosa at any time during the day, this is a very dangerous endeavor. And if you have,

55:02you know, 20 or 40 people, extra people trying to get into, get on to Aramosa from Arthur Street,

55:09this is definitely going to end in a terrible accident. And a lot of children walk to school

55:14along the street. In fact, I don't let my daughter walk along Aramosa because it's just too dangerous.

55:20And then fit with the neighborhood again, Marcel alluded to this, there were two render

55:24renderings provided and the second of which which has the brick and the stone facade would fit much

55:29better within our neighborhood. So again, if we have a choice, we would definitely prefer

55:34one that fits with the aesthetic of our neighborhood. And then finally is the tree canopy. So when

55:40this property was owned by the church, we worked together to plant a number of trees on the property.

55:46And it now is quite a lovely property with a lot of mature trees. And a lot of these are along the

55:52perimeter of the property. So if it's possible for the developers to preserve some of these trees,

55:57that would be greatly appreciated. And then once the development is built, if they could provide

56:03more green space and try to replace these trees and potentially plant more trees than are already

56:09there, that would be greatly appreciated. And I think that's about it. Yeah. Great. Yeah, thank you,

56:17Sarah. And is there any questions or follow up for this delegate? There isn't. But thank you very

56:24much. Appreciate it. And Lenore, when there Ross is here, hi, thank you for coming. Thank you for

56:40having us. Yeah, I'll turn it over to you whenever you're ready. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead. We've got

56:44three members of council and members of the audience. I thought about how I would open this

56:52presentation and I was a bit conflicted of how I would do that. I'm a resident on Arthur Street,

56:58175 Arthur Street immediately adjacent to the proposed development. I have an 1860s stone cottage

57:06and I have some concerns about the development primarily related to two issues. One is trees and

57:13one is the scale and functionality of the project. And I'm not coming to this application without any

57:22basis. I am a registered professional planner. I work as a planner for the City of Kitchener.

57:27So I understand a little bit about how we need housing and how housing is provided.

57:35I also understand the framework that the province has and what we have is a city

57:41and some of the limitations that we're faced with. And I also recognize that the development group is

57:48not asking for a lot. And they're not asking for anything different from what I have. And I find

57:54that hard because I can put ADUs in my yard. But I do have concerns about trees. I have

58:06very large walnut trees on my property that will be severely impacted. I've had

58:14those trees assessed by arborists and with a foundation 1.2 off 1.2 meters off the property

58:21line they will not survive. Two of those trees will not survive. There are additional large trees

58:29on the property that will also be impacted by the foundation and the excavation and construction.

58:34And those will not survive. They will have to be removed. I understand from the development group

58:40that there will be a tree management report submitted at some time this fall. And I am hoping

58:46that that tree management report can reflect a slightly different building footprint to

58:54to offer better protection to these trees. And I would also encourage the city to have tree by

59:01laws that offer that protection to adjacent property owners. If I cannot persuade the development

59:09group to take responsibility for the impacts to my trees, the responsibility and the financial

59:18implications will fall to me to be addressed through civil court. And that's not correct.

59:24There should be a responsibility on the city's part for any application where there is impacts to

59:30neighboring properties through tree canopy that property owners provide that ascent and consent

59:38to those impacts. And I hope that will happen through the new tree bylaw. My second concern is

59:49my second concern is about scale and function. These are these are large semi-detached buildings.

59:58They will extend if you look at the site plan from the minimum lot set back from the front yard set

1:00:05back right to near the property line that is back of the dividing line between Mitchell and Arthur.

1:00:15That will be a whole wall of building along my property line and on the other side next to

1:00:23the Yerimasa street units and properties. They will have a little bit more separation because

1:00:30of the irregular lot line there and a little bit more relief from that building facade.

1:00:37With the number of bedrooms that are in this development with three units on each side of

1:00:43the development proposal on each side of the semi each of those buildings will need to have

1:00:51access fire access out of those bedroom windows. So there will be overlook on to my property.

1:00:59And because there's semis the opportunity to have those windows on the ends or the front

1:01:07is limited. I think by reducing the number of bedrooms permitted through the additional

1:01:16ADU that is a special request for zoning will reduce some of that overlook will reduce some

1:01:22of the mass of that building and help with that. As part of the written submission that I had made

1:01:31I had included some suggestions for the the zoning bylaw amendment and I would certainly encourage

1:01:39council to have a specific lot area included as part of the zoning bylaw amendment so that the

1:01:48bylaw is not further severed and I would also include regulations that I did not include because

1:01:57these are not in effect yet to address the possibility of four day ADUs that will be coming

1:02:03through the province. Thank you. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure you were done. Thank you.

1:02:13Is there any follow up questions for this delegate? Seeing none. Thank you very much. Appreciate you

1:02:21coming. Okay at this time we're going to put a full number up on the screen and see if there's

1:02:29anyone that needs to call in on this matter and in the room is there anyone that wants to add

1:02:33anything that maybe hasn't been said? Okay what we'll do is we'll just wait four minutes or five

1:02:43minutes and three to five minutes just to see if there's anyone that also calls in the numbers

1:02:48519-837-5603 and we'll come back to you first and then go to the phones if there's anybody there

1:02:55so we'll just take a three to five minute break just one second. Okay this is just your 10 second

1:05:44heads up. Looks like we didn't have anyone call in so we're going to go with the one individual here

1:05:53put up their hand if you could come forward and just state your name please. Sorry if you could

1:05:59come forward and state your name please that would be great and then you as well have up to 10 minutes

1:06:07so you can go right ahead. Thank you. My name is Andrew Arkley. Hi everyone my name is Andrew Arkley

1:06:24and I am co-founder and principal of Spruce Living. I live in downtown Guelph with my wife and family

1:06:29three kids and we know firsthand why we need affordable housing in this community. We're fortunate

1:06:34enough to be able to walk downtown to events when we have free time. On the way home from

1:06:39a well-storn game this past Friday my seven-year-old asked why so many people are camping together

1:06:45in his childish wisdom he said he liked the idea of camping outside with his friends.

1:06:51Our community needs rental housing and our community doesn't need bachelor units and

1:06:55micro units that are typical of high-rise buildings. We've been told and the demand

1:06:59shows that we need larger rental units. With this development provided the property is resumed to fit

1:07:04the neighborhood anything that is developed on the site will meet all the requirements as settled

1:07:10by the city bylaws. From lot coverage setbacks engineering parking and GRC requirements with a

1:07:16specific site these bylaws were approved unanimously by city council. We are simply following the rules

1:07:23which have been set out for us. City staff does not have any concerns regarding traffic. We have

1:07:29met with neighbors regarding trees that have agreed to pay for any tree removal fence repair or any

1:07:33other impact to neighbors. We completed the traffic study on another property that has a similar

1:07:39design and the result was a negligible increase in traffic so much so that a consultant questioned

1:07:44why we were even completing the study. That being said we're happy to complete the traffic study for

1:07:50this site as well. With this property we have committed to two affordable rental units which

1:07:55will comply with the regulations and rent guidelines set up by provincial and federal levels.

1:08:00For reference this rent rate is approximately $1450 per month. This is truly affordable and

1:08:06we're committing two units that will have a minimum of two bedrooms to this program.

1:08:10In addition we're looking at ways in which any ground level units could be 100 accessible

1:08:15as we have in other sites. Further to this we're implementing separate HVAC systems into our design

1:08:21to limit order transfer in any cross contamination in the air quality across units. We're not asking

1:08:26for rules to be changed. We're asking for the city to commit to the density that it needs it is asking

1:08:32for. Thanks. Great thank you Andrew. Is there any there is two questions? I have Kate and a downer please.

1:08:44To the delegate what will the other units be renting for? The other units will be market rent.

1:08:54I can't say what the exact number will be that could change by the time the project is completed.

1:08:59Great thank you very much. Thank you and downer. Thank you through you Mr. Mayor.

1:09:05Andrew you talked about trees and paying for trees that might have to come down. Sometimes

1:09:12that takes five years when roots are damaged. We know that. So will your tree management plan

1:09:21have like provisions for that type of damage to roots that can happen? I mean they don't come down

1:09:27the trees just get very sick after their roots are damaged to that extent.

1:09:33Yeah so I'm not sure exactly what the two report will say. We met with

1:09:37Lenore sir I don't know her last name the other day and we agreed and we will keep that commitment to

1:09:44either taking down the trees proactively if she wishes or if other neighbors wish if there's an

1:09:50issue with trees as well taking them down proactively and paying that cost even though they're 100%

1:09:56on the other property or we're happy to enter into agreement that if the tree dies

1:10:02in a reasonable time frame like there wouldn't be 20 years but five years or whatever our

1:10:07our tree study shows that that could be up to a certain amount of years we're happy to do that as

1:10:12well. And then would you be willing to I mean this I know this probably is a civil negotiation but I

1:10:17don't know what what can be included in the zoning but to replace trees I guess we don't can't

1:10:24replace trees on private property it's mostly public property but would you be able to put that

1:10:32your plan would because trees will be coming down on the property too that they will in that

1:10:37backyard seeing as you have a significant backyard there will there be extra plantings be able to

1:10:42go into those backyard? We typically try to plant as many trees as possible in our designs we have

1:10:47done that in the past I can't say specifically as we don't have that you don't have plan. We haven't

1:10:52developed that far yet but we're happy to do as much planting as possible and also talk to the

1:10:58neighbors about replanting the trees that we have. Replanting the trees that's one thing yeah that's

1:11:02I understand that'll be a civil matter between yeah we didn't specifically talk about that but we're

1:11:06happy to talk about it. Yeah I mean I think any tree loss that they that there should be maybe

1:11:10over close around to their property right okay thanks. Thank you Oroch please and then Karan.

1:11:17Thank you Margot 33 to Mr. Oakley I'm just wondering you have a few

1:11:22developments like this in the city and what's the parking experience like so you know that the

1:11:28unit that you have coming up in in my neck of the woods there's a lot of concerns around parking

1:11:33but you have a couple units that are occupied and what is your what's your experience with that and

1:11:38recognizing this one's closer to downtown and that they're all a little different but are you finding

1:11:43that every resident has their own vehicle like what does that look like? We are very clear with

1:11:50everything we have rented to date that with how many parking spots are included in the specific

1:11:56unit most of the time it's one there has been some cases where it's two but we are very clear about

1:12:03that and so so far we have not had any parking issues I mean again offered one parking space

1:12:12and we're meeting the bylaw the city doesn't have city staff doesn't have issues with that

1:12:17and we don't foresee a problem. Okay thank you and then through you Margot 33 I'm just curious

1:12:23I think in one of your developments you've got some energy efficient features and do you have any

1:12:29of those in this? We do actually I didn't mention that so we are building to a spec that will

1:12:35essentially be net zero ready so all electric electric heat pumps we are sealing the space

1:12:46roughing conduit in for solar for future we haven't planned solar yet but we're planning for that in

1:12:51the future so we're essentially building net zero safe for the solar. That's great thanks.

1:12:57Thank you and Karan. Oh sorry Leigh Ann, Councillor Caron you're muted I believe.

1:13:14Can you hear me now? Yes you're coming through good now thank you. Okay thank you I just had to

1:13:19switch my phones. Thank you Councillor O'Rourke for asking my favorite question. I'm Mr. Oakley

1:13:26you indicated to have projects on the go and some already occupied. I know the one that I'm

1:13:33familiar with in World 5 the garage is not used parking it's a UTA and for waste ends would that

1:13:44be the intent on this party as well? We haven't again got that far on this plan on that one site

1:13:53on forest yes we are using the garb or the garages for more of a storage component than

1:13:58parking but I can't say for certain on this specific site. Second question the back half

1:14:06of the pretty fronting onto Mitchell is is considerable is it the fourth ADU approved by

1:14:15the city for you to build a DTA detached ADU half the property? We don't have plans right now we're

1:14:22looking just to divide this or well really we're just here for the zone change so we don't have

1:14:27plans developed far enough to answer that question. Okay great thank you and with that

1:14:40I only have this one question just on the fly here but based on what you're looking at

1:14:47would it be fair to say that if our zoning bylaw was not under appeal right now you might not even

1:14:54have to be here? Well it's a zone change there's a couple sort of slight regulations but yeah so I

1:15:02mean this is the zone change so we'd still have to do that. Oh yeah the zone changes still have to

1:15:06be done yeah that's right yes yes so yes we would but everything we're doing to sort of to your point

1:15:14is as of right so in the 2023 bylaws we are meeting again like I mentioned all the setbacks

1:15:21a lot coverage parking requirements we're meeting everything that has been set out by the city.

1:15:28Okay thank you so much. Okay that's it there's no further questions and thank you for coming up

1:15:33appreciate it. Okay council it's back to us and just as a reminder to everyone

1:15:38whether watching or listening and being here tonight there's no decisions being made tonight

1:15:42at all okay so it's just we're the whole point of this is to listen and to gather feedback and then

1:15:47it comes back to our staff to take it away and to discuss further with the developer of NAB

1:15:54so to council as is typical this is your moment to bring anything up that has not already been

1:16:01brought up is there anything further that needs to be stated to staff for them to consider council

1:16:06or work? Thank you Margot through you to staff just a couple of questions if we permit four bedrooms

1:16:14in the ADU as opposed to two one does that set a precedent and two does that require additional

1:16:22parking? Through the mayor to the councillor so when the province introduced ADUs in three

1:16:32units of right the maximum number of spaces we could require per ADU was one it did not specify

1:16:39the number of bedrooms tied to that but the provincial regulation is one space per ADU

1:16:45we will also be coming back this fall hopefully with four units potentially

1:16:53the province does allow three as of right right now they have draft regulations out for ADUs

1:16:58and the draft regulations would indicate that they're removing bedroom caps on ADUs as well

1:17:04thank you and through you Margot three I'm just curious if this property is with

1:17:08what's the distance from this property to the gulf central station and does that fall on the new

1:17:13radius we may have to report back on that I don't have the number right off the top great thanks

1:17:25sorry just just on that this area isn't in the downtown secondary plan I don't think

1:17:31do we know that answer? Through you Mr. Mayor know it is not in the downtown secondary plan

1:17:39so it's probably not in the capturement area for the new provincial laws of no

1:17:45parking requirements but because that's kind of the the boundaries of the secondary plan so

1:17:50uh Claussen and then Boussatil and then Downer and then Guller and a reminder it's only something new

1:17:57thank you yes through you Mr. Mayor to staff I've got two questions for clarification

1:18:04one I've just you know the delegate Marcel Schlaff brought up the potential to develop

1:18:11the lower portion with permission of the GRCA I just wanted to get some clarification language

1:18:17on that that's my first question and then my second question is is that I've heard um

1:18:22you know multiple bedroom numbers being thrown around 28 to 40 and 40 or more residents so I

1:18:29just wanted to get some clarification around what what is the range and potential through the

1:18:39mayor to Councillor Claussen so the GRCA has submitted comments regarding this proposal they

1:18:45have no objection to the Zoning By-law Amendment as per as presented but they will require uh

1:18:50that a GRCA permit be pulled before any building permits are received they've also indicated that

1:18:56they are not supportive of any severances that remove safe access to Mitchell Street which is

1:19:01why the proposal is is for four through lots rather than having lots fronting onto Mitchell

1:19:06Street and Arthur Street separately can can you just clarify why so I think that the reason why

1:19:19the frontage along Arthur Street is partially within the floodplain the floodplain overlay in

1:19:24the city's zoning by-law and official plan so having access to a public right of way that is

1:19:29outside of that floodplain is the intention okay thank you and so would the protection then of that

1:19:35lower portion also mitigate some of the concerns around flooding in that area I think I would need

1:19:43some clarification on on that question uh protection of which lower area the area right

1:19:49on to Arthur Street yeah I think so because I think it's on a slope right that's correct so the

1:19:54proposed semis would be on the lower end of the uh of the lot okay thank you um and then my other

1:20:04question was with regard to the number of bedrooms versus residents and what we can can't know and

1:20:12control absolutely uh through the mayor so the the proposal here before us today would uh would

1:20:20propose three bedrooms per basement adu and then four bedrooms for the second adu uh and then there

1:20:27would be the main dwelling unit which there is no cap in the zoning by-law for the number of of

1:20:32bedrooms in the main dwelling unit so that's where there's a little bit of variability on to how many

1:20:38bedrooms total would be permitted okay so would that 28 to 40 be correct

1:20:48based so for the for the 880 us there would be uh 28 bedrooms maximum permitted and then there would

1:20:58be four semi-detached main dwelling units and that's where the variability rolls in so it depends

1:21:03on how many how many bedrooms would be in each of those main semi-dwelling units okay thank you for

1:21:10the clarification boosted till downer gallward chew thank you very much and through the mayor

1:21:21very similar to um councillor claus and i had a question about the severing of the lots

1:21:27and if there was a potential to sever horizontally as well but what you're saying is

1:21:32just so i'm clear the g rca requires that the severance still provide access at the Mitchell

1:21:40street so it's a long severance and so they're they're saying you cannot sever in the middle

1:21:46horizontally um so my my follow-up to that would be the did the g rca have any restrictions

1:21:53on what happens on the Mitchell street whether it's further development with roofs and water

1:21:58retention and all those other kinds of things given that it is a sloped um property through the

1:22:06mayor to councillor boosted till to my knowledge they haven't requested any conditions for the

1:22:12Mitchell street frontage of the properties but staff will review jrc's comments in further detail

1:22:18ahead of the decision report being presented to council thank you am i my second question is about

1:22:23there was reference to um one of the delegates spoke about the heritage committee in homes a

1:22:29hundred years of age you know it can you place for me is there a review of that neighborhood

1:22:35happening through the heritage committee any kind of designation and what is the timeline

1:22:43through the mayor to the council so yes there is um but it is not uh in effect yet so any heritage

1:22:49conservation district policies do not apply at this time to the site and i think that's it thank

1:22:56you very much through the mayor and thank you councillor downer than goer thank you through

1:23:00you mr mayor uh two staffs can so just um i appreciate some of the other questions but

1:23:07just going back to the trees in the tree management plan are in conditions can we we can put in about

1:23:13protection of trees tree roots and things like that because right now under our tree bylaw we

1:23:19don't have protection or would this property be under the protection over half half an acre

1:23:27no so are those things can they be put into or can they be requested to be put into the tree

1:23:33management plan protection of the trees that are there not like not if they have to come down but

1:23:39the tree i'm talking about tree roots and things like that through the mayor to the councillor so

1:23:46the tree the site is under 0.2 hectares in size so the tree bylaw does not apply to this site

1:23:52as we understand now tonight they're going to be doing a tree protection plan so we will take a

1:23:56look at that um what we can do and the only comment we can make on that is when they apply for

1:24:03demolition of the existing structure we'll put in comments about any city streets in the misbel

1:24:08right away that we do have the ability to enforce and and comment on and then we have a general

1:24:13comment about boundary trees and uh the provisions of boundary trees under the forest react and what

1:24:19we can and cannot do so that'll just be written into the um conditions of demolition but there's

1:24:24we can't condition zoning so we can't do because it's under the half an acre we can't do the

1:24:30cash and louis even right so and require extra planting okay well i'll take it on the good faith

1:24:37of the developer that thank you they said that they'll work on that thank you thank you i just

1:24:45a reminder of your microphone there uh galler then two is there anybody else because that's the only

1:24:50two i have left and then Gibson okay galler thank you through your worship to uh to staff

1:24:57um the developer mentioned that you did not have concerns with regards to uh to parking or or traffic

1:25:06um the impact of traffic on the street um we've heard from some of the delegates that they have

1:25:10concerns about the ability to turn into aeramosa and the added um number of residents may may have

1:25:19an impact to that could you could you speak to comment to to this and whether you will be asking

1:25:23for a traffic impact study on the street or or not the manner to councillor Goller so there was a

1:25:32pre-consultation meeting that took place with various city staff and the developer prior to

1:25:37this application coming forward uh traffic engineering staff did review this application

1:25:41at that time and did not deem it necessary to require transportation impact study as such staff

1:25:48did not require that as a requirement for the submission okay okay uh okay i understand that

1:25:56and what about parking understanding that there will be people that that live there that may

1:26:03have a car that needs to go on the street but the parking non-street parking situation is is quite

1:26:08challenging for for the residents of both Mitchell and Arthur is that is that something that will

1:26:14be addressed through the studies uh through the mayor to councillor Goller again so the

1:26:22proposal does conform with the parking requirements in the zoning bylaw so there aren't any studies

1:26:27being conducted uh about the demand parking that this proposal will have on the street okay okay so

1:26:34then this brings me to to a question about the the size of the lots that were being asked to

1:26:42to subdivide into one of the delegates mentioned that perhaps we should have had um minimum lot

1:26:49sizes where a fourplex could be or or a um a duplex width to additional building units could be put

1:26:56in uh is there any consideration to exploring having a minimum size um for for this development

1:27:04so that it does fit into the neighborhood i suppose so that the what has been proposed which

1:27:09is the the minimum size that a lot can be subdivided into with the mayor to councillor Goller so the

1:27:17the proposal uh for semi-detached dwellings the minimum lot size is 230 square meters per lot

1:27:23and the uh and the proposed uh lots do comfortably exceed that that minimum okay okay no thank you and

1:27:31just one more clarification there's no request for any exemptions on setbacks or side yards or

1:27:37anything like that it's all in compliance with our guidelines is that correct that is correct yes okay

1:27:44thank you very much thank you and so last i have is to bring it home for us there councillor shane

1:27:53oh i got oh gibson okay don't bring it home for us just ask your questions i'll be quick thank you

1:27:59mr. mayor just the staff i just want to expand a little bit on parking um and just indulge me here

1:28:07this is a bit of a hypothetical like right now we're here really just for the two semis

1:28:12and obviously we're looking at uh three parcels on mitral street i'm just thinking is there like a

1:28:20possibility that we can reconfigure um the site plan so that we can optimize parking and if the

1:28:32proponent does wish to add additional parking um would that be possible through the mayor through

1:28:42the mayor to councillor chou um the design of the site is ultimately up to the proponent the proponent

1:28:49to come forward with what they are proposing uh if they do wish to alter the proposal to

1:28:54provide additional parking via mitral street that is something that staff will take into

1:28:58consideration but at this time it's not proposed by the applicant and sorry mr. mayor if i can add

1:29:05to that to the councillor so we also cannot look at site plans for anything with 10 units or less

1:29:11on individual lots so once this goes through the severance process there'll be three units so we

1:29:15do not have the ability as a result of provincial changes to have this go through site plan anymore

1:29:20like we used to in the future previously three units could go through site plan but uh they cannot

1:29:25go through site plan anymore okay no that's good to know uh just if we're just looking at the semis

1:29:34just looking at the rear the um rear yard or actually the side yard sorry is there

1:29:43more than enough space maybe if the proponent wanted to uh put in an additional parking spot

1:29:53through the mayor to councillor chou so they the proposed semis currently have the minimum

1:29:58required setback of 1.2 meters to the lot line and the maximum driveway width or semi-detached

1:30:04lots is five meters which is what they're currently providing so without a further amendment to the

1:30:09bylaw there is no uh possibility to do to do additional parking um on the site without pushing

1:30:16the uh the dwellings back as uh i think mr. karroski did say would be a possibility okay yeah no thank

1:30:23you just for clarifying that all right councillor gibson you're the one bringing it home for us so go

1:30:31right ahead thank you through mr. mayor just a comment for staff to take away i've heard it from

1:30:38the delegates and i've heard it from the the ward counselors i think parking is a front of mind for

1:30:43everyone it looks like those are going to be a number of on-street parking spaces that are

1:30:46going to be removed as part of this development i'm assuming that parking is already tight

1:30:51uh personal experience i drove around our neighborhood last night my ward

1:30:55spoke with the residents who hadn't parked in front of their own home in five years because of

1:30:59how many people were parking on the street um so i know that the applicant has brought forward

1:31:05a proposal that looks like it accommodates all the parking needs which i appreciate and i would

1:31:09just encourage them to continue to get creative and look to accommodate all of the parking needs

1:31:14of this development on their own plot i think um putting any more pressure on public space public

1:31:20streets is uh is just going to create a lot of angst and frustration for the neighborhood

1:31:26so i know it's a challenge but i'll just i'll leave that with staff that those concerns are heard

1:31:31and uh i encourage the the proponent to continue working hard on that park thank you thank you and

1:31:39while i while i got you would you be willing to move just receipt of the application for me

1:31:44councillor gibson sure no problem thank you thank you and councillor too you were the second last

1:31:49to speak would you be willing to second that then yep okay there's nothing further i'll call the

1:31:55vote then just to receive okay i'll call the vote is anyone against just receiving the application

1:32:03no one okay thank you very much to all the delegates and to staff and to the

1:32:07applicant as well and we'll see what happens when it comes back and working working at all

1:32:12so thank you very much um can i just i may i just ask uh through to staff and maybe just a

1:32:47little bit let me try and read the room here a little bit uh is is do you think tonight is a

1:32:56night where we're going to have to have a long discussion on the affordable housing demonstration

1:33:02project item only because i see a staff member here here only one staff member here on that item

1:33:10and i i see a lot of delegations on the other one i'm just wondering how quickly we could

1:33:16accommodate that other motion or sorry that other agenda item because it it seems straightforward

1:33:23to me but that's just me so i just wanted to make sure does this council have a lot to say

1:33:29on that particular one just a couple quick questions yeah that's right um and so i was just

1:33:41thinking uh if we could uh and i just want to ask luke uh luke were you going to also be involved

1:33:50in the housing strategy report as well no you weren't okay um if it's okay with um with with us

1:34:01in the room here i think i'd like to just quickly move to that item for okay and then we can end

1:34:05the evening on the housing uh strategy sorry to staff there that moved down just getting some

1:34:12blood flow for you uh so let's let's do that because then we can also take a break um after that

1:34:17i'm sure the timing would work well for a break okay so if i could ask uh luke and james to come

1:34:24down we'll just quickly move uh thank you for the accommodation everyone to the affordable housing

1:34:29demonstration project there's just a quick presentation and then i saw only council or

1:34:35orc have just a couple questions of clarity caller and then and then maybe the two of you might even

1:34:41be willing to move move that and then uh we can take that break afterwards luke am i putting you

1:34:48on the spot is that okay okay i just think that might might get to just through to the the final

1:34:54one that has a little bit of a longer uh agenda item to it so thank you everyone for that luke

1:35:00i'll turn it over to you thank you mayor guffrey just let me get uh make sure i'm in order here okay

1:35:15minor revision i guess this is still afternoon good afternoon mayor and members of council

1:35:19my name is luke jepperson i am the strategic property advisor with the city of guelph i'm here

1:35:24today to talk about the housing accelerator fund initiative 4.4 that is to create an affordable

1:35:31housing demonstration project this is an initiative that is a requirement as part of the overall

1:35:41housing accelerator fund program of work this report is being presented to council as a follow-up

1:35:47to maryl direction b3 strategic real estate partnerships on underutilized city-owned assets

1:35:54um and so basically we as staff are thinking more creatively about housing and how the city

1:35:59can support more housing i'm here to share some information on that ongoing body of work

1:36:05some of the work that has been completed and recommend a city-owned site for a four affordable

1:36:11housing that we can start to action immediately this work is supported by the strategic plan

1:36:18specifically city building improved housing supply and foundations maximize guelph's real

1:36:23estate opportunities to support growth so staff have completed a few key actions to evaluate

1:36:36city land inventory and and we continue to advance evaluation criteria to help inform future land

1:36:43decisions on september 19th so i'm referring to the map on the left there on september 19th the

1:36:49city and county owned land assets map was finalized and posted publicly on the city of guelph housing

1:36:55accelerator fund website this work is a housing accelerator fund deliverable and was completed

1:37:01with input from wellington county staff on october 4th staff circulated an information report that

1:37:09included information on ongoing work that included land inventory evaluation this work is very

1:37:16preliminary and there's a lot of work remaining to complete and this information is provided as an

1:37:22update on that the map you're seeing in the middle there is a starting point and the purpose is to

1:37:28identify sites that can identify that can accommodate potential development natural heritage sites

1:37:35parks right-of-ways and other similar sites have been removed and sites that could have development

1:37:40potential are included there are more sites that will be removed from consideration as the work

1:37:45continues some of these sites have built facilities on them and staff will continue to review this

1:37:50inventory our capital project forecasts to narrow the potential development sites down to

1:37:56actionable developable sites so there's more to come on that one lastly and i'm referring to the

1:38:03the image on the right there staff are completing work on an evaluation framework to help make informed

1:38:09decisions on lands that are underutilized or projected to change use this work will be reviewed

1:38:15by the gulf strategic property committee and is expected to be implemented in november

1:38:21so the work i'm sharing is a lot of the background work that informed the recommendations on the

1:38:25report before you today and staff are recommending actions on city owned lands to initiate an

1:38:31affordable housing demonstration project the site we're bringing forward today is 14 enboro road south

1:38:45this is the target site for the report and it's been on previous real estate assets report reports

1:38:50sorry it has a defined use that is being relocated and based on the inputs from planning and other

1:38:56staff it can potentially accommodate up to 12 residential units this fits the criteria for

1:39:01the housing accelerator fund identified affordable housing demonstration project so 14 enboro road

1:39:09south is the current location of the gulf pottery center this use is being relocated to the west

1:39:15and community center in the summer fall of 2025 and the site is approximately one half acre in size

1:39:22previously it was assumed that this site would be required to support the rail crossing

1:39:27environmental assessment work that is ongoing this this was communicated in the 2023 real

1:39:33estate assets report in consultation with engineering staff it has been identified that

1:39:39the recommendation before you could continue and development or sale of the site can occur

1:39:44without impacting that study so these are just some views of from the street of of of the site

1:39:54the half agreement obligates that the city will initiate an affordable housing project

1:39:59that has a minimum of 12 units this work must be actioned by the end of 2026 bringing more housing

1:40:05units online and finding creative uses for vacant lands or actions that are supported by our strategic

1:40:11plan starting in summer or fall 2025 this site will be vacant because the the use is being

1:40:18relocated as I mentioned and the site has residential zoning in place

1:40:23declaring 14 enboro road south surplus allow staff to undertake the work necessary now to

1:40:29action this development so staff are recommending initiating a request for a proposal process to

1:40:43find a developer operator to develop 14 enboro road south into an affordable housing demonstration

1:40:49project so in summary the purpose of the recommendations in the report is to identify a site

1:40:55to initiate this project affordable housing demonstration project

1:40:59we're targeting a site that has a history of interest a history of being repurposed

1:41:04and it will be vacant starting in the summer fall of 2025

1:41:10by confirming the site and confirming the rfp process now staff can immediately action these

1:41:16processes and bring new affordable housing units online so the recommendations are the council

1:41:22direct at 14 enboro road south be declared surplus land and the council direct staff to

1:41:27initiate a request for proposal for the development of a minimum of 12 affordable housing units at

1:41:3214 enboro road south thank you thank you luke appreciate your presentation it's all good news

1:41:43in my opinion uh i believe i'm going to have goller and ororak move and second this i think

1:41:50that's where we're going to go okay ororak you had you've had put your hand up when i

1:41:55initially said hey is there anybody that wants to ask questions so you go first and then i saw

1:42:00katin and now i got more goller and clausen okay uh thank you margithory through you to staff

1:42:09that that old trope about the thing about land is they're not making anymore do we have any

1:42:15ability to just do a land lease and keep the land in the city's possession in perpetuity

1:42:27through the mayor to council ororak um there's always the ability to do that but what we've

1:42:33identified in the report is that partnership agreements agreements like what you're describing

1:42:38do take time and and that the housing accelerator funds um deliverable articulates a pretty strict

1:42:46timeline that development will occur by the end of 2026 and so we've a staff we've evaluated that

1:42:52we've we've looked at it and and we feel that the best opportunity to meet that project timeline is

1:42:57through a disposition okay so through you margithory um to staff the recommendation is that those

1:43:06units remain affordable for 25 years does the city have the ability to say

1:43:1399 years lots of cottages are on crown land and and they have a 99 year lease or can we

1:43:20make that um those units affordable in perpetuity well through the mayor um we can take whatever

1:43:31direction council was just to provide us but what we were doing when we developed the rfp we're

1:43:37going to limit the um proposals to not for profits hopefully that would address perhaps some of your

1:43:44concerns about the duration of the affordability period um we were looking for a minimum of 25

1:43:50years of affordability with a five-year phase out of that um as part of the evaluation criteria we

1:43:57we were going to weigh proposals that have that longer affordability duration higher

1:44:05so i think that addresses your comments but if council wishes to provide direction to staff to

1:44:11um you know one of the requirements of the rfp if it's going to be for affordable housing

1:44:17in perpetuity then we we can take that as direction okay um so through you margithory i

1:44:23i'll state my intention to do that um because my concern is what would prevent a proponent

1:44:30of a affordable housing development to non-profit maybe but lots of non-profits fall on hard times

1:44:36and need to liquidate their assets they would then own the building and the land right and it's

1:44:43like the g rca right people thought that all that land was going to stay in the g rca and now

1:44:48they're going to sell a piece so um through you to staff can can you provide some guidance whether

1:44:56perpetuity is better 99 years is better what what's my move here and i apologize that i didn't

1:45:02suss this out earlier this week you know in perpetuity or 99 years it's pretty much the

1:45:19same thing i don't think there's a lot of difference there so okay then i would like to

1:45:23move that motion and then following that vote i have another question mega three great i know

1:45:28councillor Allt would like to uh to second the in perpetuity motion while you craft that and send

1:45:35it to clerks if you don't mind i council just want to jump in on one quick question would we also be

1:45:41able to jump in on on this where we could work into the contract first right or refusal back to

1:45:50the city if we wish to have to repurchase it so if a non-profit falls on hard times if there's

1:45:57something that happens in 50 years and it needs to be put up for sale can we have that we would

1:46:02have the first right or refusal yes to the mayor definitely we can look at that okay so before you

1:46:09send that motion then councillor rork would you mind putting both of those items in your motion

1:46:17in perpetuity and first right or refusal i just i just hit send so let me uh let me do that it's

1:46:23not up on the screen yet no councillor Allt are you okay with that seconding that as well the first

1:46:28right or refusal portion great whoo you got radie moji's going on there okay thank you okay uh i i see

1:46:36you on my list too councillor Allt for sure yeah i got you down no problem all right we're just

1:46:40going to go through this vote and uh and then we'll we'll move on thank you everyone i'm sorry

1:46:46sorry if this maybe i've took took a little longer but those are two important points uh

1:46:51to to grasp so that's good all right i think we know what that that this is it's the in perpetuity

1:46:57and the first right or refusal so i would like to call the vote on that even though it's not up on

1:47:01the screen yet but what's going to come up is anyone against those two thanks point of order

1:47:07america through i think we have to put it up we have to read it because it's not in the agenda so

1:47:18folks who have a screen reader can't yeah i got it i was still going to allow it to come up on the

1:47:22screen i was just getting the vote out of the way okay and i'm i want to make sure the wording i used

1:47:27is okay if i could mr america do we just have a moment with the draft motion because i'm getting

1:47:37some input here all right we'll save we'll save the poll on that yep that's fine maybe we can

1:47:42answer some other questions did you see you had a second question councillor i do america three

1:47:46okay let's keep moving here through you to our staff i i know i i did ask this question uh earlier

1:47:51this week in person but i know there's folks in the community here wondering why this property

1:47:56could not have been used for the tiny homes coalition for their pilot and i would i would

1:48:00just like that answer um to be made public so that people understand why this wasn't ultimately an

1:48:06appropriate lot for that through the mayor of the councillor um so the site is within the metro

1:48:14links area that they would have to comment on so anything within 30 meters cannot be residential

1:48:20so the proposal would be to have the buildings at the front of the property with parking in the

1:48:25rear which is permitted in the metro link setback but we could not have put tiny homes or residential

1:48:31uses or a habitable space in that parking area and that's why it was not uh included as the temporary

1:48:40encampment site thank you i really appreciate the explanation because folks driving by you know we

1:48:46make assumptions we see this big fence lot so i appreciate that and would it be okay if i just

1:48:53go to the next question as you contemplate the motion still james yeah okay thank you gollard

1:49:00i can't work ask everything i was going to ask i'm good you worship perfect claustin

1:49:09those were also my questions so thank you love you all this is fantastic uh kate and then buildings

1:49:18question um so through you uh mr chair i was just wondering do we have any percentage or a

1:49:25number of units that need to be accessible in this rec counter kate and i just want to apologize

1:49:36i missed your question could you just ask it one more time for me yes uh three staff do we have a

1:49:42number of units that need to be accessible to wheelchair users in the rec great thank you all

1:49:50go to staff luke uh through the chair so our report today is is really focused on um identifying

1:49:59the site confirming the site and um confirming the rp process will be initiated i think that we

1:50:04can look at specifics or formulation of built form things like that as criteria so i would i

1:50:09think the answer right now is that no we have not identified um anything um related to minimum

1:50:17accessible units within the report itself however we equally have not started really

1:50:22crafting the rfp and so really the recommendation is to is to get that action and so we can certainly

1:50:28take that away and and look at it but i think that the direct and simple answer is that hasn't been

1:50:32looked at right now um but it's something we can consider is that something that if i don't

1:50:41make an amendment for it it won't happen or should i be type an app an amendment may i just ask i

1:50:52thought they're under the yantere building code there's like a 10 10 percent rule um because

1:50:58it's 12 units or more that 10 percent would have to be accessible anyways i'm not suggesting that it

1:51:04couldn't be more of course but i just want to make sure that that might already be embedded into

1:51:08any kind of project anyways through the mayor at this point in time without having received

1:51:15submissions from the not-for-profit organizations and their plans not knowing exactly what it's

1:51:21what's proposed we we can't we don't know that for sure it depends on the type of configuration

1:51:26if they're townhouses if they're singles or summaries no if they're an apartment yes so

1:51:31or we do have to wait do we receive those submissions to determine what it would be and how it would

1:51:36meet Ontario building code um if required through Ontario Building Code we'd certainly enforce it

1:51:42based on that answer i would suggest that Councillor Caighton and council might want to

1:51:50actually provide publicly in a public realm like this right now at least some sort of a statement

1:51:56that a portion um should be allotted or there that the council has a desire to to meet some sort of a

1:52:05accessibility units within this project so that's stated publicly everyone knows up front even before

1:52:11the rfp is even put out i'll leave it to you Councillor Caighton if you want to maybe work

1:52:16with staff on that consideration and i'll just see if there's any other councils uh sorry questions

1:52:22and then i can come back to you if you want to move that as an amendment as well okay perfect

1:52:27um alt you were next thank you thank you mayor Guthrie two questions uh one question one comment

1:52:39first question i think is very important for the longevity of this project um i'm speculating but

1:52:46speculating with reason metro links has suggested they would like to put an underpass at Edinburgh

1:52:51road what would be the impact of that on this particular project luke did you uh you talked

1:53:02about that in the presentation right you want to just restate it again for us just to make sure

1:53:08but through the mayor i'm happy to defer to our uh acting DCO over there he might have more

1:53:12expertise but we we have talked about it we we we do believe that what we're contemplating

1:53:18is not going to negatively impact the environmental assessment um but maybe i'll i'll turn it over to

1:53:24sure if he's got further comment yeah through the mayor to councillor Allt i think it is as simple as

1:53:28just recognizing that those processes are also happening in parallel to the rfp process so we

1:53:33can't presume the outcome or presuppose the outcome of an ea but it's important for anyone

1:53:38responding to the rfp to understand that that ea process is ongoing and so um that is certainly

1:53:43something that needs to be factored in to people's plans in the future i i guess i'm going beyond the

1:53:49ea to the inevitability of this which i hope doesn't happen uh i would be incredibly disappointed

1:53:56if we put something in the ground that uh because of the uh an ea um finding warrant to what

1:54:03metro links is stating that an underpass goes there and defeats the whole purpose of this

1:54:08pilot project i'll leave it at that uh in terms of perpetuity and the first right to refuse i

1:54:14do thank both councillor rick and mayor guthrie for these uh having worked uh considerably in

1:54:21nonprofit and co-op housing in the past i'm well aware that organizations that put houses in the

1:54:29ground that uh are operating on a not-for-profit basis are very vulnerable to markets and we see

1:54:36that in wealth as well there does lie the risk that we could lose nonprofit housing and affordable

1:54:45housing to market if we do not put in our own um protections great thank you council roll the clerks

1:54:54have indicated that the motion um not to councillor katens but the original one with those two items

1:54:59is now ready to be put up on the screen and i'll read that as councillor work

1:55:03uh rightly called me out on uh number one that council direct okay so number one and number

1:55:10two are the same um number three is the new one so that the new affordable housing units will

1:55:18remain affordable for 99 years and that the city of gulf be granted right of first refusal should

1:55:24the property be put up for sale and just so everyone knows there's some there's some legal

1:55:28reason here which is why we had to change that to 99 years okay so um imperpatuity was just not

1:55:35exactly allowed the intent was certainly there uh but from a formality point of view it has to state

1:55:42for 99 years so um can i call a vote on that everybody okay um on all three in your worship

1:55:50yep can i please understand why it cannot be in perpetuity um our staff have indicated from a

1:55:58legal perspective that language can't be used um but i'll turn it to staff to say that out loud if

1:56:04if niby that's the one that wants to jump in uh through the mayor it was requested through our

1:56:12city solicitor that we put a number on the duration and not use the word perpetuity okay great uh okay

1:56:24sorry i'm not not going to call the vote billings and then katin clause three through your worship

1:56:33i'm just asking at the very end there in case something does happen down the road the city has

1:56:38first right or refusal so what what does that mean with respect to the value of the land

1:56:45is that at market rate at the time whether it's five ten twenty fifty years or whatever or is that at

1:56:53the the current purchase price through the mayor that's something we can take away and

1:57:03then we'll come back as part of the the agreement that we enter into as part of the rfp process

1:57:09but understanding um yeah the value of that land is going to continue to raise over time so maybe um

1:57:17yeah we'll put some affinity around that okay thanks great thanks for asking council buildings

1:57:26and now katin uh just on the motions right not not yours katin so i was just going to ask if this is

1:57:34happening that i can still move my motion after this yeah absolutely i'm going to just get these

1:57:39three out of the way and then yours is going to be number four okay and then uh billings and then

1:57:45chew sorry because you're going to be asking for all three clauses so i just had another quick question

1:57:51so even you know 99 years doesn't matter 25 99 my question is then because this is a demonstration

1:57:59project through your worship by the city who then enforces or oversees the affordability criteria

1:58:08of the residences is met is that the the city like or is it the ultimate like non-profit or the

1:58:16builder who then oversees going forward in time that it really truly will be for the lower lower

1:58:24income earners who oversees or enforces that through the mayor something this agreement will be

1:58:33registered on title and you know and that is something that we can have the housing provider

1:58:39provide to the tenants to ensure that they understand that they're in an affordable housing unit

1:58:44and something that i think you can spot check through the years to ensure that those units

1:58:48remain at that affordability level okay so three yeah okay that part i understand so three

1:58:56you're worship i understand we can check in so yes the rent is still x amount which which meets the

1:59:03criteria but the people living there the residents that live there how do we make sure that they are

1:59:10the lower lower income earners like can can can we ask for you know you know tax returns like

1:59:31how do we how do how do we enforce this or oversee this issue well through the mayor i think that

1:59:41you know we're getting some good questions here and definitely something that we can

1:59:45you know take away and consider further as part of any agreement that we entered into through the

1:59:50rfp process in terms of how we'll administer this on the on the back end okay thank you you wish

1:59:58yeah no um just just you know in the room there's lots of heads nodding uh thanking you

2:00:04councillor billings for asking those questions just so you're aware okay chew you had a question

2:00:12on on something or a comment and then i'd like to please call the vote everybody yeah it will be

2:00:17very quick i promised you uh through you mr mayor i'm just wondering if like this can be somehow

2:00:24documented into our affordable housing strategy as like a future addendum because this is very much so

2:00:31a demonstration project so even just how we're facilitating some of the financing is there a

2:00:37way in which that could be documented like in the future not saying now or anything

2:00:45through the mayor yes that's the idea of this project is to learn from it and um

2:00:52then when it's successful we'll repeat it again okay and i just wanted that on the public

2:00:57forum so thank you for that obvious answer great thank you councillor okay i'm going to call all the

2:01:03vote for all three coming right back after that to katin for her fourth on the accessibility

2:01:09issue um so is there anyone against uh the three motions

2:01:16no one giddy up let's go let's go shovels in the ground okay uh councillor Caton do you have

2:01:26yours already sent to clerks yes we're pulling it up great so um i see those three

2:01:35three where is it's number four that three units be accessible i don't see number oh

2:01:44that's why i can't see it my monitor cut off number four sorry and that three units be accessible

2:01:52to wheelchair users um oh okay does someone want to second that um i had to second our

2:02:00councillor Allt alt okay i guess i kind of went um because i don't know i just would rather i would

2:02:11rather it be a little bit more open like what if someone comes and says they want to do six

2:02:16so i was told the max that we could do um from i want to i think councillor quasen wants to amend

2:02:23it to add the words a minimum of three yes three mr mayor if i can propose an amendment to add um

2:02:32a minimum of a minimum of yeah if somebody would like yeah and busatil will will um will second that

2:02:39amendment to add that wording so it's not limited to three if you could please email that to the

2:02:44clerks right away or the clerks have grabbed that the clerks can put it up on the screen

2:02:50i'll then call the vote on just councillor Klassen's amendment again the amendment is just adding the

2:02:57words a minimum of perfect i'm going to call the amendment on only adding the words a minimum

2:03:26of is anyone against that nobody now i'm going to call the vote uh councillor work has a question

2:03:37um thanks madda 33 you to staff so in a previous life i was involved in rfps and when you have an

2:03:44rfp you can have a score sheet and in that score sheet you could say a number of accessible units

2:03:50degree of affordability because because it could be that the whatever the province deems

2:03:56but that whatever the province threshold is is not necessarily a rent geared to income like it

2:04:00could be a lot of models so my concern is whether it is better to have the number of accessible

2:04:08units be part of the rfp grid that gives you more points the more accessible units you have

2:04:14or whether this motion constrains uh proponent too much right so we don't know what the built

2:04:22form is going to be here could be townhomes could be an apartment building so like i'm all for

2:04:28accessibility before a councillor kate and join this council i was usually the accessibility

2:04:33proponent so i'm just wondering from staff does this constrain a proponent too much

2:04:40um and is another way to deal with it to put it in the rfp grid um to the mayor i

2:04:50i don't think it constrains it too much it's a minimum of three so if people want to provide

2:04:56additional accessible units they can score higher as part of the rfp process but right now i don't

2:05:02think a minimum of three will constrain the the pool of applicants okay i'm going to call the vote

2:05:12to vote on councillor katens motion right now is anyone against that nobody we are done all of it

2:05:25now as amended the clerk has reminded me i'm going to do really i voted on all three and then that

2:05:33was just done and then we added a number four and that was a standalone and we just most we just

2:05:39voted on that no okay i'll cover it off i'll call them vote on the main motions as amended anyone

2:05:48against nobody okay bear with me give me grace for one second i just want to say something

2:05:56thank you to staff this is awesome thank you very much thank you to council i took a little bit

2:06:03longer than i thought there but the stuff that we all brought up i think is something that the

2:06:08almost like a lesson learned as a takeaway for the next one and the next one so you can see

2:06:14you can kind of feel what the pulse check is of our of our council here with like all of us adding

2:06:20some layers to it of takeaway of different things that might be important to us as we move forward

2:06:26for other things you know the the accessibility part um first right a refusal the 99 years like

2:06:35this kind of stuff is probably something that should now be thought of as we move forward kind

2:06:40of a kick what councillor two was was bringing up a little bit so thank you very much that's great

2:06:45we are going to take a break now as i mentioned and then we're going to finish our evening off on

2:06:50still some good news here on the affordable housing strategy the draft we had already earlier today

2:06:58had a few people already back out on delegations so our delegations will kick us off when we come

2:07:05back after the presentation dominica i don't know if i saw dominica here earlier but let's see what

2:07:11time is it right now it's six o'clock so um we're going to come back here at six thirty okay so we'll

2:07:19see everybody here in about 28 minutes thank you very much everyone i'm just calling the meeting

2:36:19back to order if i could have everyone online just put their videos on for us so we know who's with us

2:36:34great we have everybody coming back on thank you

2:36:38all right we're on our last item for tonight everybody it's the draft housing affordability

2:36:43strategy strategy and we're going to kick things off with a presentation from our staff

2:36:53kushla is here and lucas is here um may i just say off the top

2:37:00no no no no no you can go up i'm going to be eight seconds uh i have seen the two of you running

2:37:07around everywhere since you've been given this file and may i just say right up front this is

2:37:14excellent work thank you very very much for what you've done and i'm really looking forward to the

2:37:19we're all looking forward to your presentation uh but i it is not uh it's not not noticeable by

2:37:27not noticeable by anyways me being here in the building all the time i see the amount of work

2:37:32you've done on this both internally and externally and so i just want to thank you very much for

2:37:36this draft that's before us so yeah if anyone is here in the room or anyone's listening online

2:37:41this is draft the whole reason for this being draft is uh the process is to get more feedback

2:37:47and then uh engagement will happen and i'm sure that we'll get get uh discussed today over the next

2:37:53couple of months or so and then it's going to come back for actual final uh approval okay with

2:37:58whatever that however that looks like after more engagement so kushla thank you very very much

2:38:03for what you've done i just wanted to state that right at the top it's this is good work so go right

2:38:07ahead that's on right yep okay great thanks so much um for the introduction margat three so

2:38:13hi margat three and members of council planning just a little bit closer there

2:38:32second is that better that's better okay um so uh thanks again so uh lucas and i are here today

2:38:43to provide you with a brief summary actually maybe not so brief about 20 minutes um of the

2:38:48draft actions contained in the draft housing affordability strategy so these actions were

2:38:54crafted over the spring and summer of this year with the support of our consultants still in

2:38:59consulting and watson and associates but before we get into the draft actions let's quickly go

2:39:05back to the beginning for context and then go somewhat over some of the analysis that has

2:39:09been completed since the spring this project was initiated in september of 2023 and between

2:39:19september to december staff worked on the state of housing and guelph report that can be most

2:39:24easily explained it's a document that identified the gaps as it relates to housing needs in guelph

2:39:31focusing primarily on market housing the five key issues that were generated from this report

2:39:37became the foundation for the draft actions that are presented in the draft strategy

2:39:42essentially we needed to figure out using the tools that we have at our disposal at the municipal

2:39:47level how we can help to close the gaps or alternatively how to stop the gaps from growing

2:39:54bigger so the five key issues that were identified in that report are listed there on the slide and

2:40:02it's going over it very quickly that we're working towards achieving our affordable housing targets

2:40:08that there is a need for smaller units there's a need to increase the supply of primary rental

2:40:13units that the secondary market offers more affordable choices but could benefit from

2:40:20from stability offered by the primary rental market and finally there is a need for an increased

2:40:26supply of non-market rental housing and before we get into the draft actions we will always

2:40:35start with talking about what we mean when we say the words affordable housing we are required

2:40:42and mandated to use the province's definition which very recently changed to a very modest degree

2:40:48so let's first focus on affordable housing ownership so the definition and it's up there on

2:40:55your screen i'll go over it very quickly is the least expensive of housing for which the

2:41:01purchase price results in an annual accommodation cost which does not exceed 30% of gross annual

2:41:07household income for low and moderate income households and i'll go over that low and moderate

2:41:13in a second or housing for which the purchase price is at least 10% below the average purchase

2:41:19price of a resale unit in the municipality we know that the term low and moderate income

2:41:26households is used to define those whose incomes lie within the 30th to 60th income deciles and

2:41:36this would account for approximately 40% of guelph's population so 40% of guelph's population

2:41:42lie within that those income deciles the top end of that 60th income desal range in terms of actual

2:41:50household income is around and it's approximate here 125 000 annually when looking at this from an

2:41:57ownership perspective so with the modified provincial definition also came a provincial

2:42:06bulletin and bulletin is essentially a whole bunch of numbers which will be which we are told

2:42:14will be updated annually and that breaks down what the thresholds are both market and income

2:42:20based for market income based housing and then indicates what the affordable housing benchmark

2:42:26price is depending on what is least expensive so in the case of ownership again we can see

2:42:34that the market based thresholds so those ones in that second to the left column

2:42:39are higher than the income based thresholds so the one next to it to the right so in this case

2:42:46because income based is lower those are the numbers that apply those are the thresholds that apply

2:42:52now if we bring together the information that we have on low and moderate income households

2:42:58which are those again i'm just going to keep repeating similar types of information but

2:43:03those are the households that lie between that 30th and 60th income desal ranges

2:43:07we know a couple of things first we know that 20 percent of Guelph's households are captured

2:43:14in that up to 30th income desal and secondly and this is a repeat again of information but we also

2:43:20know that 40 percent of current households in Guelph fall within the definition of low and moderate

2:43:27so the answer to the question on the slide about what a low and moderate income household

2:43:32could afford in Guelph the answer is that only those in the 60th income desal or higher can afford

2:43:41to purchase a home in Guelph at 398 thousand dollars and would need an estimated minimum income

2:43:49of approximately 125 thousand dollars so we need to stress that this is based again on the provincial

2:43:58definition these numbers are based on the provincial definition not on realistic prices

2:44:02of units which as you can see based on mark the market threshold they do not align and that is

2:44:09ultimately the challenge that we will continue to butt up against as we work through the housing and

2:44:14housing affordability portfolio similarly what do we mean when we say or when we talk about

2:44:22affordable housing from a rental perspective so similarly for the definition of rental it is

2:44:27also the least expensive of a unit for which the rent does not exceed 30 percent of income

2:44:33or a unit for which the rent is at or below average market rent and again we're going to go back to

2:44:43a table of numbers which is again is the provincial bulletin and we can see here that the

2:44:49market-based rents in this case are lower than the income-based rent thresholds so in this case

2:44:56the market-based threshold is what is used to define what is affordable rent for 2024

2:45:03so let's bring in the incomes again for low and moderate income households to see what is

2:45:09affordable in Guelph if we look at the bachelor which is about 1160 dollars the minimum annual

2:45:17affordable annual income is about 46,400 dollars for that and we know that about 70 percent of

2:45:24renter households in Guelph can afford a bachelor unit at that price in terms of a one bedroom which

2:45:33is 1508 up here the minimum affordable annual household income for that would be about 60,320

2:45:41and we know that about 50 percent of renter households in Guelph can afford a one bedroom

2:45:46apartment for two bedrooms the annual household income would be 65,840 approximately and again

2:45:5450 percent of renters and rental households in Guelph could afford that and finally for the three

2:46:00plus bedrooms a minimum annual household income of about 67,800 would be necessary and again 50

2:46:09percent of renter households in Guelph can afford that unit price so I know I'm giving you a lot

2:46:19of numbers I'm going to give you some more but you're certainly welcome to have questions on them

2:46:25afterwards but now let's take a look at some of the data that we've received on housing needs in

2:46:31Guelph beyond what was provided in the state of housing report in Guelph in December so as we've

2:46:37been working on drafting the actions we have also been working on determining how many affordable

2:46:42units both ownership and rental would be needed to support our population to the year 2051 and

2:46:51again it's according to that provincial definition that we just went over so our colleagues from

2:46:55Watson and associates have provided these figures and what it is showing is that out of approximately

2:47:0126,000 units that are needed to be built to 2051 to support a population approximately 8,700 of

2:47:10those are about 33 percent will need to be affordable this 8,700 figure is broken down even

2:47:19further to show that 2640 units or about 18 percent will need to be affordable ownership units

2:47:29and around 6,060 or 53 percent of the total will need to be rental units so we know this is a

2:47:37significant number and while it will be challenging to achieve this number we know that the community

2:47:44need is strong so this is essentially what happens when we've had decades of disinvestment

2:47:53in subsidized and social housing mixed with socio-economic indicators and factors this is the

2:48:01these are the numbers that we're seeing for our community and these are not singular to our community

2:48:06Guelph is in the same boat as many other communities across Canada it's a big number however now

2:48:13knowing these numbers allows us to approach this affordability crisis with open clear eyes

2:48:20knowing these numbers is critical as we work towards achieving these goals with our county of

2:48:25Wellington colleagues community agencies home building community nonprofits and many many others

2:48:37we're able to take the step these numbers one step further in terms of breaking them down

2:48:42for the rental target of that approximately 6,060 units a range of affordability types will be needed

2:48:50this is this table illustrates that range based on a specific percentage of average market rent or AMR

2:48:59by so that blue is highlighted there so by focusing on the 80 to 100 percent AMR we can bridge between

2:49:06the housing offered by the county which is already facing increased pressures and typical market rate

2:49:14and above market rents by supporting that portion that 80 to 100 percent we can cool the pressure on

2:49:19both on throughout the affordability needs by focusing on the area where there is the largest

2:49:27majority of need and in terms of doing a little bit more math if you break on 2120 over 27 years

2:49:37which is 2024 to 2051 that's approximately 78 units per year that would need to be

2:49:43affordable rental that need to be built in terms of ownership the city will need to continue to

2:49:51work collaboratively to facilitate the creation of about 2,640 affordable ownership units by

2:49:582051 and that is approximately 98 units annually to 2050 so briefly I just want to go over the

2:50:08this the vision this is a vision that was created through again much of the public engagement that

2:50:14we did from the beginning of the year till till June this is in terms of what people would like

2:50:21how people would like to see us Guelph in the future so I'll just read it very quickly that Guelph

2:50:26is a welcoming community where diverse housing options are available for residents as a human

2:50:31right we have homes that are affordable accessible and suitable regardless of income age or situation

2:50:39by working with our private and not-for-profit part sector partners and other levels of government

2:50:44we will emerge as leaders in addressing housing affordability current and future residents will

2:50:49thrive in their ideal homes we also came up with three goals that we collaborated on with the

2:50:58public and many of the people that we in our terms of our housing affordability strategy focus

2:51:03group as well so we've identified three goals and our actions in the draft strategy are structured

2:51:08under these three goals the first goals that our community is able to access affordable housing or

2:51:14housing that is affordable throughout the city goal two is that our community can contribute to

2:51:20diverse and inclusive housing options for everyone and finally our community knows and shares the

2:51:27importance of long-term housing options so in terms of the draft actions that you that sorry the

2:51:39draft actions that you're going to see are based on what we heard again through public engagement

2:51:44from spring through june of this year we are also able to capture voices during that engagement that

2:51:50typically do not participate in this type of project the draft actions focus on what we can do

2:51:58there are some actions that push the envelope and others that speak to ensuring that it is clear

2:52:04that we will need to continue to work together towards increasing the supply of housing in

2:52:10wealth as lucas will take you through some actions are already underway because we have

2:52:16received funding to advance them ultimately there also needs to be a recognition that that any actions

2:52:24that we advance need to be done so as thoughtfully and as prudently as possible we cannot do everything

2:52:31all at once so when we come back to you in december with the final recommended strategy we will

2:52:37provide some details through an implementation plan that will speak to prioritizing the draft actions

2:52:43so lucas will provide some more details around that and happy to hand it over to lucas now thank

2:52:55you kushla so here are some examples of strategic actions that the city has already started working

2:53:01on some of which have already been in front of council or are coming to council in the coming months

2:53:08so for example the city is currently working on permitting more housing options such as four units

2:53:13as of right in low density residential zones once the province finishes amending ontario

2:53:18regulation 2 9 9 slash 19 for additional residential units city staff will be coming back with a final

2:53:25decision report later tonight well earlier tonight you heard about an affordable housing

2:53:30demonstration project on 14 edembro road south to get to that point staff needed to first create

2:53:37an inventory of city land assets to determine what lands could be used for affordable housing

2:53:43on november 13th council planning meeting city staff will present work on an affordable housing

2:53:48community improvement plan or cip which will include a number of programs to incentivize

2:53:53more affordable housing development including affordable ardu development

2:53:59then finally on september 17th council discussed an information report that contained background

2:54:05information on renovation bylaws staff heard similar commentary during our engagement sessions

2:54:11held as part of the draft housing affordability strategy that kushla mentioned and are now

2:54:15presenting a suite of options to be considered to protect existing affordable housing stock

2:54:21so this could include a renovation bylaw as well as a rental replacement bylaw and a targeted

2:54:27penalty fee or fine system for known vacant homes in the city staffer of the opinion that these

2:54:34three pieces should be evaluated and reported on together as one comprehensive program so these

2:54:45actions in front of council are brand new to the city when it comes to affordable housing development

2:54:49so while some of these actions are new they do include roles that will be familiar to many of

2:54:55us and make use of existing strengths such as an educational role through the development of yimby

2:55:01principles to build community support for new affordable and inclusive housing proposals

2:55:06a policymaker role through changing minimum parking requirements for affordable housing

2:55:11developments to make it easier for those developments to be financially feasible

2:55:16an asset manager role by considering if any new or existing city-owned land asset could include

2:55:22housing and finally a decision maker role by evaluating whether the city should move beyond

2:55:28providing financial assistance and incentives to determine if there's another model to accelerate

2:55:34the building of affordable housing so the city can't do all of these actions alone we need to

2:55:42collaborate with a variety of groups organizations and community members to create that affordable

2:55:47housing so for example this could include working with an equity deserving group to access specific

2:55:53funding opportunities from cmhc for affordable housing development we also want to investigate

2:55:59and evaluate alternative and creative affordable housing types such as community land trusts

2:56:04and target and support funding for these housing models we can also work with places of worship

2:56:10to identify those community assets to develop affordable housing a good example of this is

2:56:15kindred works who specifically works with the united church of canada and they build affordable

2:56:20housing on their place of worship sites we also know that housing is just one part of a community

2:56:26so we want to work with our neighborhood groups community leagues social agencies and others

2:56:31to build that social equity and inclusion so that everyone knows that they belong in guelph

2:56:38so this draft housing affordability strategy is quite large it contains more actions on

2:56:43affordable housing than ever before that's been presented to council a strategy gives us the ability

2:56:48to be proactive and targeted in our approach to these actions so that we have a strong basis to

2:56:53make decisions on what works and what doesn't work this strategy however does not contain all of our

2:57:00housing efforts but is targeted specifically at affordable housing however those other efforts

2:57:05are not stopping our development planning team continues to find efficiencies in application

2:57:10process time we're doing a height study to determine if more heights can be accommodated

2:57:14in our downtown and development planning work on the guelph innovation district

2:57:19claire mulpy and dole lime is ongoing so as we consider these actions and how to prioritize

2:57:24we need a strong implementation plan staff are now building that implementation plan as well as a

2:57:31monitoring and evaluation framework this important component of the draft housing affordability

2:57:37strategy will establish the work plan for how to see these actions through over the next 10 years

2:57:42it will include what will be needed from staff for each action what city staff will be responsible

2:57:48for implementing the action how we track how each action is coming along and what financial

2:57:53implications on budget will be for each action so when it comes to past strategies this particular

2:57:59component is something new but it's just as critical it's the key to making sure that each

2:58:04action is well thought out is reasonable and effective often monitoring and evaluation can

2:58:10be an underappreciated component of strategy related work so although we have significantly

2:58:15expedited the delivery of a strategy of this size and we all want to get to work right away

2:58:20there are differences in actions that are the quick wins and actions that are more complex

2:58:25and thus need more time to develop the implementation plan gives us that full clear picture and

2:58:31something that will inform work plans as well as future reporting so during the next half of October

2:58:38staff will be doing a number of engagement events including some of the dates shown on the slide

2:58:44so this list has already grown and changed we've recently added a pop-up event tentatively for

2:58:49the Mitchell Woods public school in the west end on October 21st so really for the most accurate

2:58:54information on where we will be and if any of the dates change want to encourage everyone to follow

2:58:59our have your say page at www.haveyoursay.gwelf.ca slash housing affordability we'll also be presenting

2:59:07the draft housing affordability strategy to several advisory committees including the accessibility

2:59:11advisory committee the planning advisory committee and the housing affordability strategy focus group

2:59:17as kushla mentioned the final recommended housing affordability strategy which will include that

2:59:21implementation plan and monitoring framework will be presented to council on December 10th 2024

2:59:28and so this is the recommendation before council tonight and kushla and i are happy to

2:59:32answer any questions or take back any comments as needed thank you to you both awesome presentation

2:59:39and uh i'm sure we'll have lots of questions and such and when we get to that point but again

2:59:44thank you very much we do have a few delegations and uh so dominica mcpherson who we know very well

2:59:52is from the guelpham allington uh poverty task force for sorry task force for poverty elimination

2:59:59i said it the wrong way come on down and this is this just so everyone knows is delegating this is

3:00:05five minutes uh not 10 so we've kind of changed to a different thing so it's five minutes no more

3:00:11you'll hear a beep uh or a chime at four minutes and 30 seconds uh and then the microphone will

3:00:16be turned off five minutes so don't let it get to that uh and then to stick around just in case there

3:00:21is uh any uh questions okay dominica thanks and nice to see you go right ahead good evening uh thank

3:00:29you uh mayoring counselors for the opportunity to speak today on this critical issue on behalf

3:00:34of the poverty task force the housing affordability crisis in guelph has reached a scale that demands

3:00:40significant bold action this draft housing strategy presents a strong vision and sets the stage for

3:00:47guelph to become leader in housing affordability i want to commend council and city staff especially

3:00:54kushla and lucas uh for your commitment and work to date in this regard and the state of housing

3:01:01report revealed that only 30 of households in guelph can rent a unit at what would be considered

3:01:06affordable based on their income combined with pressures households face in being able to purchase

3:01:11and own a home this means the vast number of guelph residents are living with housing stress

3:01:18and for many the situation is dire though most impacted it's not just those living with the

3:01:24lowest incomes who are struggling recent research from the canadian center for policy alternatives

3:01:30found that even full-time minimum wage workers cannot afford to rent in guelph housing affordability

3:01:36is a challenge that cuts across all sectors affecting our community's overall well-being and

3:01:42economic vitality while i recognize the important role the county of wellington plays as the

3:01:47municipal service manager it's also clear that the city has a vital role to play in supporting and

3:01:53enabling the creation of affordable housing including deeply affordable housing through the

3:01:59city's policies planning decisions and financial tools which you control you hold significant power

3:02:06in dictating how impactful the county's work and an update housing and homelessness plan can be for

3:02:11guelph this strategy is a tremendous opportunity to not only be responsive but bold and proactive

3:02:19over the next 10 years you have the power to shape the future of housing and guelph that means

3:02:24creating the right planning and policy context and offering financial and administrative support to

3:02:29advance affordable and deeply affordable housing in tandem with the county and community's efforts

3:02:35the choice you make now will have long-lasting effects and whether people can realize their

3:02:39human right to housing in this community moving forward i urge you to prioritize the following

3:02:46stop the loss of affordable housing you must act swiftly on preventing the further loss of existing

3:02:52affordable housing stock through advancing proposed actions including a renovation and

3:02:57rental replacement bylaw as you know when affordable units are lost to renovictions or

3:03:03dem evictions they are often replaced with market rate units that many can no longer afford

3:03:08your leadership in this area is critical in ensuring that our city doesn't grow and develop

3:03:13at the expense of people losing their homes second create more affordable housing it's

3:03:20essential to level the tools available to you to increase affordable housing stock including

3:03:24unlocking city-owned land for affordable housing development by advancing actions that include

3:03:29the development and implementation of a land strategy offering regulatory and financial

3:03:35incentives that make affordable housing projects feasible including fast-tracking approvals

3:03:40investing in incentives in the affordable housing reserve as you've done in the past

3:03:44and supporting a favorable planning environment that removes barriers for affordable housing

3:03:48development it's also crucial that you are forward thinking and also considering the direct role the

3:03:54city could play in developing affordable housing and in playing a more intentional role in project

3:04:00partnership third prioritize deeply affordable housing while partnerships with private sector

3:04:07with the private sector can help with land donations inclined support or upper level

3:04:11affordability we must recognize that the nonprofit co-op and public housing sectors are best positioned

3:04:17to create deeply affordable housing if we are serious about addressing the needs of those most

3:04:22impacted by this crisis we must bolster these sectors by prioritizing their projects for city

3:04:28support and ensuring these key players have the capacity to respond both now and into the future

3:04:35in conclusion addressing our community's housing needs is a monumental task that requires

3:04:41collaboration across all levels of government which as you know can be challenging but each

3:04:46must activate the tools available to them this housing strategy is your opportunity to do just

3:04:52that the decisions you make will shape whether wealth becomes a place where everyone can thrive

3:04:57or one that only those with higher incomes can afford as you continue with this process I urge

3:05:03you to be bold and visionary this is really exciting and I hope that you use this opportunity to

3:05:09advance solutions that ensure housing is truly a human right for all in our community thank you

3:05:17thank you Dominica appreciate you coming down for your presentation and we got two questions

3:05:25one from council start with councillor Allt please and then to councillor arourke

3:05:31Guthrie thank you mismic first in for your presentation

3:05:36anecdotally I was wondering if you could provide a couple of examples of how bad you consider it

3:05:43to be and I'm wondering if you can break it down in terms of demographics seniors young people

3:05:50or whomever how bad is the problem with yeah I mean that's a big question

3:06:00but I would say it's it's to the extent that historically it's been uncommon to see

3:06:06different populations experiencing the depth of pressure that they are today I often link this

3:06:11to the type of income programs and and realities that are available for people in the past you

3:06:18know a minimum wage worker could afford a place to live in Guelph and we've seen increasingly

3:06:23through that rental wage research of the Canadian Center for Policy Alternatives that workers would

3:06:28need to work more and more and more hours at minimum wage far exceeding what's legal to be able to

3:06:35actually afford the rental rates in our community so it's having a significant impact on our on

3:06:39our economy more broadly and and people being available to work but I would also say in the

3:06:45past we didn't see older adults experiencing the depth of housing precarity or homelessness as we

3:06:51are today we have some some basic income tile supports for that in our country and and we're

3:06:58realizing that a lot of that social safety net's no longer working for populations who previously

3:07:03weren't facing those pressures and then beyond that data we know that most of the populations you see

3:07:09coming from more marginalized groups racialized communities you know lone parent households

3:07:14women we're seeing a lot of those intersections continue in terms of the pressure that people

3:07:20are facing we've seen an increase in family homelessness in our community which is something

3:07:25that we have not seen to this depth at all in the past as well as increased pressures for

3:07:31for newcomers or people even claiming refugee status in our communities so it this is dire

3:07:39it's serious I know many of you know this already and just in general just really excited about the

3:07:44prospect of this really being your opportunity to you know choose rather than managing the issue

3:07:49to actually solve it and play a really pivotal role in in addressing that type of pressure that

3:07:55we're seeing inequitably distributed across our population right now thank you very much I'm

3:08:00extremely concerned about elder poverty and I think that you you identified that as a concern

3:08:06there are a couple of other concerns our staff experts who just presented

3:08:12raised some important points about the types of housing that are necessary in wealth I believe

3:08:20that we're we're missing one and that is large family housing and I think maybe you just alluded

3:08:26to that right now are we seeing challenges with larger families requiring two three and even four

3:08:34bedroom units and and that not being addressed or am I incorrect no I would say that's correct

3:08:40based on the data that I've seen is is when we're looking at core housing need data in particular

3:08:45as you get to kind of the higher end of the the income affordability level there what we see

3:08:52disproportionately is who's facing that core housing need pressure our larger family sizes

3:08:57so to your point I appreciate the the research staff have talked about in terms of smaller units

3:09:02and some of those things on a broader scale definitely pertinent but I think when we're

3:09:07looking specifically at the deepest pressures to your point if there's some nuance built

3:09:12within that when you're looking at the specifics of what people can afford so I would say that's

3:09:17true but I would still say we continue to see that who's facing the greatest pressure our single

3:09:21adults who you know are living off social assistance rates and and just not able to get by let alone

3:09:28afford a roof over their head thank you very much for for um parsing that as well I

3:09:34I appreciate that I think the work of staff has been excellent one other area that I think

3:09:39you're a bit of an expert on is renovations what's the climate like out there with that

3:09:45from your experience is it getting worse in my experience it's it's definitely getting worse

3:09:52again there's no formal kind of data on this that I have access to at this time

3:09:57but we do know from data and trends across the country this isn't something that's isolated to

3:10:01gulf alone it's why we've seen other municipalities do measures like renovation and rental replacement

3:10:07but I would say just talking to the legal clinic recently they've seen an increase in those types

3:10:11of of evictions and I think just anecdotally from the community it's increasingly I'm hearing

3:10:17about it more and more we heard recently from brant residence just about how many of the buildings

3:10:22in that neighborhood alone are at risk of broader renovation um measures so

3:10:29yeah the last question is is about the planning environment you made references to barriers

3:10:36that need to be broken down and I'm going to ask the same question to planning because I suspect

3:10:41many of those barriers are legal obligations uh what are the barriers that you see that you would

3:10:47like to see broken down so that's a great question and now you're now you're reaching the limitations

3:10:52of my planning nerdness and I'd actually to be honest I'd like to commend staff um just for

3:10:59identifying some of those barriers and and taking taking efforts to try and move in

3:11:04directions to do that I know a lot was learned through partnering with uh some of the nonprofits

3:11:08in recent years who who are building supportive housing um and to staff's credit especially

3:11:13Christa um I just want to acknowledge that staff have been really looking about that I think some

3:11:18of the measures that will lead to those barriers increasingly being removed are reflected in the

3:11:22actions that you see in this draft policy or strategy thank you for being a better nerd than me

3:11:29yeah and that's hard to do so sorry I'm up for the challenge all right now thank you please

3:11:39stay with us because I have two more counselors that have questions uh ororc and then busatil

3:11:44thank you margathri uh through you to miss person just a quick question I had a friendly

3:11:49disagreement with the developer a couple weeks ago about um quantity of units on the market and I

3:11:55said well we're a drive to the qualify kind of town and so people are gonna come here if the

3:12:02homes are cheaper so we're never meeting the needs in this community right so because you've got this

3:12:08breadth of experience and a broader lens on this than we do are there communities that navigate that

3:12:16better so what the developer said is well obviously every city has to be doing this right but if so

3:12:23what works in a community when they add the units to make sure they're meeting the needs first

3:12:28that they're a local population like people have freedom of mobility but how do we make sure we're

3:12:34meeting the needs that we're identifying today despite the fluidity of all the situations yeah

3:12:39so that's a great question and as somebody that went to the University of Guelph who's the majority

3:12:45of my friends no longer live here because they couldn't afford to live here that rings really

3:12:51true with me personally and and what I would say just in addition to that is a lot of the successful

3:12:57measures around those pieces in particular speak to really bolstering the the the sector that's

3:13:04positioned best to to build that deeper affordability so communities that have prioritized public

3:13:09housing projects non-profit housing projects obviously there's space partnership in that with

3:13:15with the private sector there's also some really creative more community oriented private sector

3:13:18players but it's really about creating measures for the those sector players who are best positioned

3:13:24to be able to enact that deeper affordability level and to be honest I would also say staff

3:13:29have done a really great job of kind of scanning those measures at other municipalities and you

3:13:33see some of that reflected in the strategy as well in terms of some of the levers that are available

3:13:38to you yeah and busitil thank you thank you and through the mayor good to see you thank you for

3:13:47the delegation I have a question the first thing when you were listing of the actions in order of

3:13:53priority is the stop of the loss of affordable housing and I guess I'm very familiar with

3:14:00union co-op and Kitchener Waterloo that purchases and retains rental buildings to keep them rental

3:14:08buildings are you aware of anyone in Guelph who is doing this as an organization that is actively

3:14:14I mean I mean it's each other policy that is actually putting money into the purchase and the

3:14:19retention not particularly off the top of my head at the same time I do know there's key players

3:14:29in our community that have considered acquisition and have looked at that I don't want to speak out

3:14:34of place here but I know the county as a as a good municipal service manager is always kind of

3:14:39considering that and the balance is always the cost involved with it because often depending on

3:14:45the property or the opportunity you can have a pressure point of it actually being cheaper to

3:14:50build purpose built so it really depends on the specific site or location but I would say that

3:14:56in speaking in favor of the city having a land strategy I would hope that that also considers

3:15:00acquisition whether it's the city doing direct acquisition or the city partnering with the county

3:15:06around ensuring that we have an active practice of considering acquisition it's there's a lot

3:15:13involved with it it's complex but I do think it's really pertinent and prudent to be to be really

3:15:18considering acquisition if we're losing projects when we did those affordable housing projects

3:15:24we saw almost more units than what we built lost in terms of deeper affordable housing in our

3:15:30community for a number of reasons so I think considering that is is super important but it

3:15:35needs to be considered in tandem with so many other factors because those situations are

3:15:39nuanced and and require um you know that that internal expertise to be able to assess whether

3:15:44or not that makes most sense under those circumstances thank you for that response and that balance

3:15:50sheet is not only the purchase plot price but that homelessness and all those other kinds of

3:15:55bigger bigger costing so thank you very much thank you thank you and with that thank you very

3:16:03much thank you so much okay michael craig is going to now join us by video I believe and michael craig

3:16:14is from the junction village community land trust hello a good evening can you see me we can hear you

3:16:25video there we go and we

3:16:30yeah see you yet but we can definitely there we go all right we can both see and hear you thank you

3:16:36very much for joining us uh mike you have up to five minutes if you need it go right ahead

3:16:41yeah it's great timing um just with that last question because i'm going to be speaking about

3:16:47community land trusts and um so i'm i'm mike craig i've been living in guelph for

3:16:54about 30 years and i have a family here with my wife mary kate me have three kids

3:17:01and my current role is managing property and housing to build community in guelph we're

3:17:08we're in a community called the junction village which is in the junction neighborhood it's it's

3:17:13quite near the proposed site at 14 ediver road south and we so we're building this intentional

3:17:24community inside of an existing neighborhood and we used to recommend that people purchase houses

3:17:32in the neighborhood as a way to become part of the community or or rent apartments and that used to

3:17:38work even 10 years ago but as we know it's becoming increasingly difficult and inaccessible um so

3:17:51what we decided to do was to start a community land trust it's called the junction village

3:17:59community land trust so it's based here in guelph it's almost a year old now and it's so we have a

3:18:07really amazing board it's a non-profit and we have built our bylaws and we we've actually received

3:18:16three grants so far to build the foundation of the land trust and really i'm here to plant

3:18:26seeds with the city council just so you know that we're here and even the question that was just asked

3:18:33you know are there any organizations that are looking to acquire land to preserve affordable

3:18:39housing like that's our mission so um and my wife and i tried to do it on our own but it just we

3:18:48didn't have a powerful enough vehicle and community land trusts have been used in the united states for

3:18:54many many years um and they've they're new to canada um but it's a very powerful vehicle to be able to

3:19:04acquire land um for the purpose of preserving and developing affordable housing

3:19:12and we use the word imperpatuity so maybe that's 99 years plus but um but the idea is that that

3:19:22land is actually removed from the speculative market um and there's a formula that's worked out

3:19:29what it's valuable so it does increase slightly um but that allows it to remain affordable

3:19:39because it's not based on market rates um so the challenge is initially the land needs to be purchased

3:19:49on market rates um and that's where kind of the partnerships really are valuable and this is where

3:19:57um you know us working with the city of wealth becomes a really strong team and and all the other

3:20:03you know organizations that would would contribute um and like we just heard it's not only building

3:20:11new units but it's preserving the existing ones um there's we're actually we haven't even

3:20:20told many people that we exist yet but we're already getting people asking us to

3:20:26purchase their property partly particularly owners who already have affordable housing rates

3:20:33and they really care about their tenants and they don't they want to sell their properties but they

3:20:37don't want to they want to protect their tenants um a good example is uh phil osburn at 41 norwich

3:20:44we've been speaking with who he has the the property that used to be the sewing mill and he's got

3:20:5128 one bedroom apartments and they're all affordable rates and he's basically running an

3:20:58affordable housing unit he even has a percent of supportive and rent to gear to income and he's 80

3:21:06and he would like to move on and he he's built a community there and he really cares about his

3:21:13tenants and he would prefer if an organization like us could purchase it to maintain the affordable

3:21:21housing and develop more there's potential to develop more there as well um so we're just a

3:21:29natural partner um and the challenge is the market value of the property is the numbers don't work

3:21:40so if someone oh i'm just gonna i'm just gonna jump in there uh uh mike your your five minutes is up

3:21:51uh and so don't think that and you you muted mike so maybe we'll just have you unmute right now

3:21:57just as i'm speaking to you um your five minutes is up there mike oh just you can you can feel

3:22:02free to unmute there mike there you go yeah sorry i just want to make sure you could hear me uh your

3:22:08five minutes is up we we really appreciate your presentation um and uh just as a side note i was

3:22:15just in Toronto last week for a couple of days and i actually learned about uh the land trust stuff

3:22:21that you're talking about it is quite interesting and a good vehicle as you say uh let me just see

3:22:25if there's any follow-up questions though at this time on your presentation councillor Allt please

3:22:34mike thanks for joining us i appreciate it uh appreciate um all the information you've provided

3:22:39me in the past on land trust as well uh i want to focus particularly on mr osborn's site um

3:22:49my fear and i think that you would be in a better position to assess it is that this particular site

3:22:54if it does not get turned into something uh that is social capital uh is ripe for renovation would

3:23:03i be correct in that and then we'd lose it that that's my fear as well yeah that's it thank you very

3:23:12much thank you and uh finally uh councillor Busuttil has a question thank you very much mike and through

3:23:20the mayor uh for your presentation just wondering if you have connected with some of the organizations

3:23:26that have been doing this for a while like union co-op that are the structure and the financing

3:23:31and those kinds of things in place to really retain housing stock affordable housing stock

3:23:37um not specifically with union co-op but there are other successful community land trusts now

3:23:45that are um in the united states and in canada that we have been learning from um they have a whole

3:23:53conference now of community land trusts across canada there's one in happening at west in a couple

3:24:00weeks um but we're we're learning we're we're kind of young so part you know learning from the union

3:24:08co-op locally is a great idea and i'll reach out to them as well great thank you there's nothing

3:24:18further uh just to also say interesting timing i actually got an email today for me to reach out to

3:24:24you and your wife about exactly what you're doing so i can see a i can see a coffee in our future so

3:24:32mike thank you very much uh uh we appreciate you coming and presenting okay all right take care

3:24:40morgan dandy is now going to also join us by video and is uh cora read out here is cora here in the room

3:24:50no okay so morgan uh dandy is next and then daniel daniel here yeah i see a daniel you're

3:24:59going to be up next after morgan okay morgan we see you and uh just maybe test your mic for us

3:25:06can you hear me yep you're coming through great thank you very much for joining us you have up to

3:25:12five minutes and you can go right ahead council staff fellow guelphites thank you for the opportunity

3:25:17to speak to you today on the draft housing affordability strategy this report demonstrates to me

3:25:23that staff and consultants are truly listening this report demonstrates to me that there is a

3:25:31commitment within the city to divine and quote identify actions within its control and quote

3:25:38on the housing affordability issue this report demonstrates to me there is the desire to continue

3:25:47the conversations required to understand the truths of the issue while working toward permanent

3:25:52solutions there are definitely places for more conversations especially when it comes to affordable

3:25:58rentals for low and moderate income earners in guelph from the house engagement summary july 2024

3:26:05page six it states quote when asked what they would improve about housing options in guelph 74

3:26:12percent of survey number one respondents selected the availability of housing options for low and

3:26:20middle income individuals and families and quote and quote 68 percent of survey respondents

3:26:30identified unaffordable rent increases as the greatest issue renters in guelphies and quote

3:26:38interestingly on page eight it's noted 56 percent own their own home own the home they live in

3:26:47and 47 percent said they live in housing they can afford it also notes the most represented

3:26:54household income range amongst survey responses respondents was $100,000 or more which brings

3:27:03me back to recommending everyone concerned about anything on housing read the tenant class by

3:27:08rickardo truncant given that the majority of respondents own their home in almost half state

3:27:13they can afford the place they are in what the author brings to our attention on page 20 is even

3:27:18more poignant when we discuss rental affordability and that is quote 30 percent affordability

3:27:23affordability threshold ignores the long-term financial security of tenants the 20 percent

3:27:30below market standard for affordable rental units overlooks that housing markets are out of sync

3:27:36with the rest of the economy the omission of landlords and their profit margins

3:27:43maintains a false veneer of neutrality in housing debates reinforcing the idea of a technical problem

3:27:50for which no one is to blame end quote i believe the draft housing affordability strategy is moving

3:27:57in the appropriate direction with identifying actions which gives me great hope for more conversations

3:28:04first and foremost exploring moving from a housing continuum to a housing spectrum the

3:28:10expounding of the canadian dream of home ownership being the goal of life by governments and the

3:28:16financially incentivized homebuilding industry perpetuates a systemic stigma toward tenants

3:28:22of being less than seeing housing as a spectrum is closer to the reality of life where the billionaire

3:28:29landlord class cannot exist without the tenant class identifying the hidden costs of being a

3:28:35tenant is so important when working to understand what affordable means especially when you're

3:28:41looking at low fixed income earners additional costs at the average a homeowner doesn't necessarily

3:28:48have to consider like laundry tenant insurance key deposits parking and storage my two favorites are

3:28:55community through housing and increased accountability by creating social connections

3:28:59through proximity to daily needs neighborhoods are created which enhances life enjoyment through a

3:29:05true sense of belonging within community in demanding increased provider accountability i

3:29:10believe there are many positive potential outcomes one of the greatest being a database of the

3:29:15actualities for tenants in gual as a university town when it comes to affordability on the ground

3:29:21the current reality is bleak on september 29th kijiji had 444 rental listings in gual 69 were

3:29:29$1,695 or less non-worth three bedrooms many were first shared rooms and approximately one dozen

3:29:39were commercial by implementing a landlord strategy a renovation bylaw a rental replacement bylaw

3:29:45and a vacancy tax as key parts of this strategy the city will also create opportunities for closer

3:29:52community through increased accountability when tenants and landlords all know their rights and

3:29:57responsibilities everyone can live more comfortably a registry would also provide the chance to educate

3:30:03newcomers who are income property owners about the permitting process for renovations like with my

3:30:08previous landlord who notified the household on a friday after 4 p.m that he would be in on sunday

3:30:19hello uh morgan uh morgan it's it's cam i'm sorry your time is up there so sorry to cut you off

3:30:25but that's your that's your limit uh well let me just see and thank you very much for your

3:30:29presentation just wondering if there's any questions from the uh for our delegation tonight

3:30:36okay seeing none so again thank you very much for joining us okay uh and so we have daniel

3:30:44is here you're coming on down nice to see you again daniel thank you nice to see you again yeah okay

3:30:57i'll turn it over to you you got your five minutes if you needed okay go right ahead all right thank

3:31:01you yeah so i kind of happened on to be able to read this uh draft for the affordable housing

3:31:07strategy and i thought it was really good it was very informative i took the couple hours to read

3:31:12it highlight some stuff um but the one thing i wanted to bring to the attention of the council

3:31:16and just generally city planning is that there was almost no mention of the student population

3:31:20when going through the report the word student only came up five times the whole time reading the

3:31:25strategy um i think it's an important uh demographic to consider when considering affordable housing

3:31:31and wealth the student population of wealth just going by what i found online for the population of

3:31:37the university of wealth is 29 000 people now not all of those necessary living glove or a local

3:31:42but when you consider that number and potentially how many of those are living in wealth to the

3:31:46150 000 people living in wealth it's not a small proportion of the market especially considering

3:31:52in the report it shows that 34 percent of the market is rental so a lot of that is taken up by

3:31:58students everybody here knows that the population of wealth fluctuates a lot with students throughout

3:32:03the year so just generally the one thing that i think would be very helpful in the strategy

3:32:08towards affordable housing is working with the schools or of private builders and such to build

3:32:14more purpose built housing for students a lot of students right now are living in those single

3:32:20family homes that we would like to have on the market um there's three to five people in many

3:32:25homes here in wealth if we had spaces that are actually built purposely for students we could

3:32:30save a lot of space first of all because students don't need a whole house to live in together

3:32:34if you you could just give them a room and a shared space it'll save space and then open up

3:32:38those single family homes to potentially be brought back onto the market for other residents to be able

3:32:43to get and just through that increasing the supply because if we go to build homes for families

3:32:50i mean we already have that so that's just the general thing i wanted to touch on there is

3:32:56incentivizing the council to work with the community and schools here in wealth

3:33:01to be able to build more houses for them yeah because also another thing that i noticed in

3:33:09the report there is that the vacancy rate in wealth is very low right now 1.3 percent when the

3:33:15acceptable average that was stated was about 3 percent for a healthy thing so we're not even

3:33:19quite eating half of that it's very hard to find a place right now and because of the squeeze

3:33:24it's making it so that rental prices that are being asked are much higher the market isn't

3:33:28something that's set the market fluctuates the market is something dynamic so if we're able to

3:33:33change how the supply is distributed for example by adding competition and more supply

3:33:40we could see prices stabilized more because i've had friends that go to school i work at a

3:33:44grocery store i worked with a lot of people that are students and they've moved out of one place

3:33:50paying 700 and now they're paying a thousand for a room i feel like especially if we had purpose

3:33:57built housing for them that was properly regulated and under more of one roof is the best way to put

3:34:03it there's less cases where students fall through the cracks and where housing can be better

3:34:10towards their income levels i also noticed that there was the proposal for a fund for students

3:34:17that are going to need help with rental assistance well that will be because it is higher rents

3:34:22that's a great thing but that's also a bandit on the problem i think we need to get ahead of it

3:34:26or otherwise those funds will quickly be dried up by markets increasing in value

3:34:31and i'd say that's most of what i'd like to speak on on that uh yeah thank you okay thank you daniel

3:34:39very much for sticking out right to the very end because you're our last so is there a follow-up

3:34:43question for daniel no uh yes there is councillor too has a question for you thank you mayor gutery

3:34:52and to you through you um i just want to make sure you're aware we do have um a policy planning

3:35:00exercise called the community planning permit system and there's a engagement piece in that through

3:35:06Have Your Say are you aware that this exists because it talks a little bit about you know

3:35:11unlocking that private public partnership that you alluded to i believe there was mention of that

3:35:16as well in the uh draft working towards building out primarily i just wanted to address students

3:35:22specifically when working at the community and building that housing specifically to open up

3:35:26those single-family homes that are currently taken up in guelph by that to then be better you

3:35:31know accessible on the market yeah and i think yeah i really appreciate you saying that um and

3:35:37you're probably aware too that there's a whole of community approach that's needed and

3:35:44not only address the student population but just housing in general i would just encourage you as

3:35:49a comment uh to really look into that community planning permit system because i think some of

3:35:54your comments could be valuable great thank you thank you daniel i'm putting you on the spot a

3:36:01little bit yes and we you know we haven't discussed this but you were here a few weeks just two or

3:36:06three weeks ago specifically about the rent eviction yeah bylaw uh at that time council

3:36:14kind of referred the matter for a discussion and it's already come up both by both staff

3:36:18delegations um to have have it sort of land here at this very very moment um do you have any uh

3:36:26update for us on what you and others are going through and i don't don't mean for you to go

3:36:32into too many details but is there still a desire amongst you and others to make sure that we are

3:36:38you know in the engagement process now that's what this dates for to start another engagement

3:36:42process um that we are still looking at that is that an important issue for you just wanted to

3:36:46hear your thoughts yeah so funny enough actually because i was told on the a to b coming back to

3:36:51this i looked at the agenda and i didn't see it explicitly there so i called in to uh the city

3:36:58uh city council or like city uh yeah and they said no it's not specifically on the agenda however

3:37:04there is this thing about affordable housing would you like us to put you on that to delegate

3:37:09so i wasn't sure to what extent to actually at that point i thought perhaps that you know the day

3:37:13had gone pretty busy you decided to defer it to another date and i was prepared for that so that's

3:37:18why if i could just jump in and thank you for bringing that up just make it just so everyone

3:37:22knows it's deferred to now which means yeah we can actually still address it now yeah uh you might not

3:37:27see it on the agenda which i can see where some of the confusion yeah that's worth maybe that's good

3:37:31then that i asked just to see if there's you know just just a minute of your time where's your thoughts

3:37:37and that of maybe others that you're working with in regards to the rent eviction or the rental

3:37:41replacement issue that's been brought up um as an option as of now as we discussed the

3:37:47renovation bylaws i think most of them are good like i said before i largely talked about transparency

3:37:52and that's the kind of stuff i'd like to be seeing implemented uh our current struggle right now still

3:37:58is the fact that a lot of people do feel very discouraged um i feel like we have lost a lot

3:38:02of tents unfortunately in our building to that i guess best word is despair of not knowing

3:38:08you know if basically put the city's got their back as long as we don't have these rent eviction

3:38:13bylaws in place a lot of people are still gonna feel that way a lot of people don't know if it's

3:38:17gonna make it in time or something like that people get numbers floated around all at them some

3:38:21people thought we'd have to be out in November 30th some people understand that we have more time than

3:38:26that so yeah great thank you and so yeah i'm sure you know we might have that come up uh we might

3:38:35come up in conversation now um so we appreciate you and thank you i know you i know you put i put

3:38:39you on the spot no no no thank you very i appreciate it thank you very much appreciate your presentation

3:38:45okay um it's back to step back to us and staff for our conversation and as we know this is just to

3:38:51receive um i believe councillor Allt you said you'd be willing to move for receipt for now

3:38:57and clauson will second thank you and then let's just uh uh just be aware of timing on this

3:39:05because i know we can kind of go on and on on this because and by the way by the way i know we

3:39:09can go on on because there is so much stuff to talk about here which is a good thing so that's

3:39:13that's fair um but uh there's been a lot of questions already so just be aware of time

3:39:18councillor alts could have kicked us off with some uh questions to staff and then i'll start looking for

3:39:24i'll go i'll stick on the screen first so i'll go with alton uh caron okay and then we'll we'll move

3:39:29around thank you mary guthrie through you to staff and this will be for various staff uh one of my

3:39:37concerns which i uttered to miss mcpherson is the the challenge of seniors uh who are experiencing

3:39:46high costs and having some challenges with either their rent or with uh with with their housing

3:39:53affordability in general i think this might be best for um our ceo um with seniors uh what

3:40:03we've had challenges with tax deferral how can we make that a great a more attractive option for

3:40:10seniors to keep them in their homes um just i'm particularly concerned about it um so uh through

3:40:22the mayor to councillor alts i would just say that we can take that feedback here at this point

3:40:27it wasn't part of um the action plan but i think uh we don't we're here to listen today and we'll

3:40:32we'll take that away yeah thank you very much and perhaps uh maybe this is more for feedback

3:40:39because i'm hearing more and more of seniors using food banks and i think this is a canary in the

3:40:44coal mine i hope that we would take into consideration in the final report how do we encourage people

3:40:49like me now being a senior to downsize and uh how uh what kind of incentives might we be able to offer

3:40:56um as well the other concern that i do have is um focusing as much on larger rental units

3:41:04in particular i know of new canadiens in the west end who are having a great deal of difficulty

3:41:09housing larger families uh is there any comment that staff might wish to make on that uh perhaps

3:41:15mrs mathews or uh lucas uh three america three to councillor alts sorry could you um repeat that

3:41:28yeah uh in i know of new canadian families um i'm going to turn off my camera in case there's a

3:41:36problem i know of new canadian families especially in the west end who are having difficulty finding

3:41:41appropriately sized housing and and i think that we've identified very clearly that that there are

3:41:48challenges with small single bedroom units what about the large units can we expand our work on

3:41:55that as well i think that's a that's an important area so get through america three to councillor

3:42:03alts um yeah i think in in the state of housing report that was that was um done in december so

3:42:09it was yes the single or this the smaller size units were identified as the biggest need and to

3:42:162051 but i think there was also some commentary in there as well on that family size or multi

3:42:23multi um bedroom units were also part of part of that need so in terms of the housing affordability

3:42:29strategy and the action draft actions that are included within that um it speaks to looking at

3:42:35a diverse range of housing options in which um larger sized units would be included within that

3:42:41yeah thank you i believe about councillor Busuttil might even raise this as well she's had some

3:42:47similar challenges um another takeaway if our staff could look at uh if i'm not barking up the wrong

3:42:55tree uh some tax relief for co-ops and non-profits uh who are are seeing challenges because of the

3:43:02states of their property and finally uh to the planning staff i don't believe miz mcpherson meant

3:43:08anything other than positives but there are people that believe that there are barriers put in the way

3:43:13by our planning staff and i wanted to give staff an opportunity to talk about legal obligations and

3:43:19best practices that regardless what we are doing must be implemented through the matter to the

3:43:30councillor so um staff and council have been working for the past few years specifically on

3:43:36ensuring that we can move development applications for affordable or supportive housing more quickly

3:43:42um we through the comprehensive zoning bylaw we removed uh we added sorry supportive housing

3:43:48as of right in any residential zone uh we know we had challenges with that on some sites and

3:43:55appeals to OLT but most recently the county of wellington was able to take advantage of that

3:44:00provision and bring forward norfolk manner so through the actions of council we have been able

3:44:05to bring on affordable housing and social housing much more quickly uh council also provided us a

3:44:11direction i think two years ago to bring forward any affordable or social housing uh projects within

3:44:1890 days we we took that to heart and we've been able to move that forward uh and a recent example

3:44:23was the uh Habitat for Humanity project on on Speedvale that needed an OPA as well and that's why

3:44:29it was a larger project so staff can and council continue to move these things forward uh depending

3:44:35on the use we do have legislative requirements that are in the planning act such as notice

3:44:40requirements which we we do have to provide um and we are starting to see housing developers

3:44:46on their own uh talk about affordable housing and you know we heard it earlier this evening

3:44:52with the developer of 8 Mitchell saying he would be providing two affordable housing units which

3:44:57staff weren't aware of but we will be looking at that when we bring back the zoning the zoning

3:45:02bylaw so um i think the discussions through council um have elevated this and we're starting

3:45:09to see it a little bit more and we've had some great success success stories in the community

3:45:13with um landlords also and uh developers providing land such as the Shelldale project so i think uh

3:45:21councillor altow i'm not sure if i uh really got the question but i think uh we've seen the support

3:45:26in support of groups like Dominique's to to help us advance those priorities and make sure that

3:45:31we're addressing it as quickly as we can when we when we're able to yeah and i appreciate it you did

3:45:36answer the question i think what you've said is that we make every effort possible to accomplish

3:45:42what is necessary in glove and and i'd like to say mayor guthrie that i think that that is the

3:45:48glove factor we are getting things done and we are expediting things as we can all right thank you

3:45:58councillor Caron please uh thank you through you mr. mayor i want to address some questions that

3:46:05one of the delegations raised about the mention of of student housing within the report

3:46:12and i i mean i just want to declare as most people know i work for the university so this is not a

3:46:17planning application there's no pecuniary interest in in addressing these questions but i want to

3:46:22give staff an opportunity to respond to that because whenever we're talking about any matter of

3:46:27planning we don't we don't people's zone and we don't talk about a certain demographic and yet

3:46:32when we talk about affordable housing we do talk about seniors we do talk about um supportive low

3:46:40income housing demographic and we do talk about multi-generational families in new canadian so

3:46:47i do see students mentioned in the report but i wonder if staff could further address it through

3:46:52the lens of um first of all um university towns across canada um a significant portion of their

3:47:04affordable housing stock uh is is for the post-secondary market um and how does that affect affect our

3:47:13ratio of affordable housing in the community or are we are we built for that and then the second lens

3:47:19is the purpose built lens my understanding is that we have about 2000 identified purpose built

3:47:29student housing projects um in on the books or zoned and ready to go and what are the impediments

3:47:37of moving those forward because i know we're not seeing those get built and i know staff have been

3:47:42on top of that issue for quite some time so if you could address that delegation when it comes

3:47:47specifically to that market and how that market affects our affordable housing um as as outlined in

3:47:54this report. Through you migratory to councillor Caron um thank you for bringing up the question on

3:48:07student housing and you're right we do talk about um sort of more equity deserving groups um in terms

3:48:13of housing like like older adults or aging adults or um immigrant families that sort of thing um and

3:48:20yes student students could be captured within that um in terms of how that can affect uh the

3:48:29affordability i think is your question in in in guelph as a city and how that population can affect

3:48:34affordability overall and might is that sort of capturing what you're kind of i mean in a city without

3:48:40university there they with with no demand on its affordability there may be a lower number of

3:48:50affordable units but i think guelph and all the university and college towns um have a high

3:48:59market for um rental units because so it's kind of it's supply and demand because we're a university

3:49:06town we have more rental units is that the case or not that i think we'd need to to to look into

3:49:15two more in terms of getting you some more um firm uh answers on that um i think in some some respects

3:49:24yes i think a university town the students can um they do need they do need homes around the university

3:49:32or rental places around the university and it can affect our housing market um but in terms of your

3:49:38question i don't think i can answer that right now but i can certainly take that away and we can we

3:49:43can have a look at that and get back to you okay i appreciate that and then i guess my my second

3:49:48question was the number of purpose built units identified specifically for students when they

3:49:53were zoned i think there's probably about 2000 um are they more expensive to develop i mean we're

3:50:01not seeing them get built and i just wonder if you could publicly provide any information about

3:50:06why that is is it just market labor materials interest rates bank financing um just to address

3:50:13the delegation um regarding that question uh through the marriage to the counselor so um i

3:50:24don't think we have a firm answer on that certainly there's been a reach to some of those property

3:50:28owners and ask about timing some have been have been zoned for a decade and ready to go

3:50:34um and i don't think we have a a clear answer from the property owners on that on that particular

3:50:41situation and why they have not moved forward i appreciate that being in the public discourse

3:50:46thank you thank you so much i have two more busitil and caution and then no roark can i go

3:51:00yes yeah thank you and through the mayor thank you to the south this is an amazing report

3:51:04i have a couple quick questions some of them are yes and no quick responses um so the first one

3:51:10for me what's most urgent is creating some movement in not-for-profit subsidized social housing um

3:51:17and so from where i sit in the community huge needs huge waiting lists there so my question is in the

3:51:22process of developing this report um did you consult with or engage with you know co-op other

3:51:29housing not-for-profit operators and so on and i don't like the word but to right size you know

3:51:35we hear a lot from housing managers that um we have individuals who are over housed but we can't

3:51:41move them out because we don't have single kinds of units um and then at the same time you know

3:51:47housed individuals that really need supportive housing was there a lens to this and i think about

3:51:53this as a housing parking lot to create some movement in in that supportive housing kind of

3:52:01area was that a bit of was this included in the process um through America 3 to council post

3:52:08till um so we didn't to answer your first question on engagement um there we had a large variety of

3:52:18people that that we engage with including um those who sit on our housing affordability strategy

3:52:24focus group um those with live experience those from uh the county and then through engagement

3:52:30we've also talked um people from nonprofits as well came um in terms of your second question

3:52:36about creating movement um specifically around supportive housing um so the focus of the housing

3:52:44affordability strategy really is on the private is on private market because that is where we have

3:52:51as a municipality the most ability to influence um housing so where movement could be created would

3:52:57simply in creating not simply but um for this answer simply in creating more housing supply

3:53:04and then the movement would be through that but in terms of the focus on supportive housing that

3:53:09really um didn't factor in um in terms of the creation of this housing affordability strategy

3:53:18because that that wasn't the focus thank you for that response i and i i read the report so i

3:53:24understand about where our tools are and where they're not but my concern remains not for profit

3:53:29subsidized in social housing and in the order of priorities from where i see um our vulnerable

3:53:35population needs that the most and relying on the market and relying on you know the governments

3:53:40that haven't provided the funding is in addressing that so that to me is it's critical i it's critical

3:53:47at this point um and so that's why i was asking about uh the consultation with those organizations

3:53:54and people who manage that housing stock to say how can we help you where's any how can we create

3:53:59some movement here um how how is that incorporated into the plan because quite honestly i i don't

3:54:06think i've been to you know some of the the city sessions i you know i i don't have huge amounts

3:54:12of uh faith in the market adjusting and meeting the needs of our most vulnerable population

3:54:18who cannot afford market rent in any way so that's uh the first question my second question is

3:54:26in your presentation in the earlier one as well speaking about public parks and lands and city

3:54:32owned property uh there was reference to a framework and evaluation and we all know that

3:54:38evaluation and frameworks are value laden so my question is will that be coming back to council

3:54:43or is this something that staff is taking and the values that staff have around the table

3:54:48will determine what the recommendations are and then i have one more um through you mayor

3:54:59got three two councillor bruce still so we will have to report back to you on the evaluation and

3:55:03whether that will be coming back to council um but i would flag that it is part of the half um

3:55:10sorry the housing accelerator fund uh work program that that was one of the initiatives

3:55:15included within that but we can get back to you on that thank you it's not the evaluation it's the

3:55:20framework of and i think back to you know parks and recreation saying what is valued in a park is

3:55:28bookings versus from my perspective might be the organic picnics that you know the new

3:55:34canadian women in the community organize and so on so it is value laden and how you create a framework

3:55:41that then you use as a lens to evaluate yes no so a little bit question about that um i just

3:55:49follow my arrows here oh um the last one is about the affordable housing when you were

3:55:55referring to developers you know the 25 years after the dc's for affordable housing and other

3:56:01planning concessions are made can you speak to what kinds of measures are in place to make sure

3:56:07whether it's 25 or 99 years in the market rent developers and that's all thank you

3:56:30for the mayor to counselor um so i think you're maybe a step ahead of us on some of these in

3:56:37the implementation plan so these are the draft actions to go out for consultation and get more

3:56:41feedback and we report back to council it's the implementation plan um as well as the prioritization

3:56:47so i think you know we're maybe just you're might be a step ahead of us um implementation plan and

3:56:53agreements on title and and how we secure that is is important and certainly conversations were

3:56:58we're already into but we're just not there with the with the details that we can put out until

3:57:03we're at that implementation plan yet if i might have supplementary know is that our community

3:57:08engagement with some developers it would be great to not only have you know boards about incentives

3:57:14and money and so on but also the expectations around what we as city as expect of the developers back

3:57:23take that away great thank you very much okay again just being aware of time everyone

3:57:31clausen orork and katin yep through you mr. mayor uh to staff um i just i had a question with regard

3:57:39to um 6.0 monitoring and implementation so i think partially my question was answered here

3:57:45by counselor busatel uh with a response to your previous question um but i just wanted to understand

3:57:52when when those kpis would be set up and how often i think it's yearly but when would we

3:57:59start to expect to see uh reporting back thank you uh through america three to council class and

3:58:08so again i think we're still we're still in that figuring out phase right now so um between now

3:58:15and when we report back in in december with the final strategy that's when we will have a

3:58:21uh an answer for you on when specifically specifically we would report back on the

3:58:27elements of the monitoring and evaluation component of this work okay thank you just wanted to

3:58:33clarify we should it or work and then katin and i just wanted to remind her of kind of the

3:58:42the outlook on this report is a receive report uh takeaway feedback now which is important um and

3:58:48just make sure that our questions are you know starting with questions not not long preambles

3:58:54let's get to the questions thank you everybody thanks margaret three three you to staff i just

3:58:59want to ask a question on behalf of a constituent who sent me this uh message that the the uh strategy

3:59:07alludes to different types of households but the income data is aggregated so her question was

3:59:15because the number of lone adult-headed households which are primarily women-headed

3:59:21and guelph's motion to declare intimate partner violence and epidemic she wanted to know if it's

3:59:27possible to disaggregate the calculations around income at least at a gender level because we know

3:59:34there's a wage gap right so it's just to get a better sense of um how much more difficult it can be

3:59:43or could be women could be newcomers so not to create a whole more world of work because the

3:59:49province's threshold is what it is but is it possible to illustrate that and you know we're

3:59:56we're going to a meeting tomorrow on county social services and we know there's lots of

4:00:01people in violent situations waiting for subsidized housing so they can't get subsidized

4:00:05housing they can't necessarily get affordable housing so um would you consider adding that to

4:00:11the final report that disaggregated data if it's available through you mr. mayor uh to councillor

4:00:19rourke um that data would be available through statistic Canada but that would be through a

4:00:24custom run and i wouldn't be able to guarantee that we would have that in time uh for the final report

4:00:30okay through you mayor Guthrie could we get it anyway through you mr. mayor yes we could yes

4:00:37thank you because my next question through you mayor Guthrie is this is obviously a

4:00:43dynamic situation right so folks build at gordon and stone we have 900 units primarily for students

4:00:50and so do we foresee updates and with what frequency to this plan um through you mayor

4:00:59gathry to councillor O'Rourke so again i think we currently do updates annually on growth management

4:01:07and affordable housing through the modern report that that jason jason does here um in terms of any

4:01:13additional um uh indicators or kpis or targets that we may introduce through this housing

4:01:21affordability strategy work again um some may be on an annual basis and some may be on a five-year

4:01:29basis but again i think we're still trying to um trying to determine what those those indicators

4:01:35are and and report back to you through the final strategy great thanks and through you mayor Guthrie

4:01:40to staff there's lots of evidence that shows that cities that have universities that built more

4:01:46student housing um saw the rental rates decrease in the surrounding neighborhood which frees up

4:01:53those townhomes for newcomer families or young families instead of renting by the room um has

4:01:59the university been invited to participate or comment uh or to provide you know some direction

4:02:06on whether they intend to do that so so i'm asking where's the university in in this report

4:02:10as you know as daniel pointed out sure through mayor Guthrie to councillor O'Rourke so we do have a

4:02:16housing affordability strategy focus group and we do have a representative from the real estate

4:02:22division of the university sitting on that focus group who does participate and does provide

4:02:26comments for us um on the work that's being completed okay and to katin please thank you

4:02:36through you mr mayor um so we know that folks who have various disabilities are in need of housing

4:02:44and i was wondering if we had data on the breakdowns of the different types of disabilities

4:02:50and the needs that are not being met so that we could have targets and find out where the gap is

4:02:56in what's currently in the market versus what we need and where we need to be uh through you

4:03:06mr mayor uh to the councillor we don't currently have that data uh i do know that there is the

4:03:12canadian survey on disability that uh that we could perhaps review in greater detail but

4:03:19that that hasn't previously been a source for for our data in the past is that something that i can

4:03:25chat you all about um on the side about yes absolutely yes thank you very much thank you

4:03:34council katin seeing nothing further i just councillor billings um i just wanted to ask um

4:03:46well let me let me start it this way so one just one of the takeaways i got from the report was that

4:03:52i believe from further financial incentives will be recommended coming forward in the report in

4:03:59december is that is that accurate that stuff will be recommending further financial incentives

4:04:07yeah through the mayor to the councillor so um we'll be bringing several um incentive packages

4:04:18associated with the housing affordability fund that we already have money for so the cip for example

4:04:26and there's some adu policies and incentives in there so that's what's coming forward in the in

4:04:31the short term is incentives of which we have budget through the federal government already for

4:04:40okay and then the other one was the with the comment the need to reduce or essentially eliminate

4:04:45parking requirements so right now we'll just take the adu's um there's only one parking

4:04:54spot that's required and so we even this evening so in the basement you can have three bedrooms

4:05:03there's a request for the second one to have four bedrooms and we're only requiring right now one

4:05:09parking spot per adu so how can we justify eliminating even that one parking spot through

4:05:24the mayor to the councillor so we'll be looking at several parking reductions one of which we had

4:05:29already implemented by the time we applied for the half funding to receive it which was the

4:05:34downtown parking reduction which then was further reduced to the province by to zero so downtown

4:05:40so that's one of the parking reductions we've also talked about parking reductions for affordable

4:05:45housing so what is the what is the true number we're looking at for affordable housing so we'll

4:05:49be looking at that through that and when we came forward with the you know four units as a right

4:05:56public meeting we had also suggested a reduction of one parking space for four units so

4:06:02depending on what the province does with the regulation that recently was released on accessory

4:06:07dwelling units that may come back to council in a form as well once that regulation is brought

4:06:12forward so we're considering all different types of options and different types of parking

4:06:18regulations based on the use so through you mr. mayor so then essentially maybe you're

4:06:23saying we'll be relying on whatever it is the province is going to tell us what we have to

4:06:29whatever the province tells us for for downtown for example we're relying on but the number we're

4:06:34bringing forward for four that we took to the public meeting was one less than what the province

4:06:38had recommended okay and then so and it's just well it's just it's just a question with respect

4:06:48to the report because we're going to be going out for further community input there were no

4:06:53financial implications attached to this package so for example even when we're looking at the

4:07:01affordable housing and waving DCs we would know how much that is whether it's an apartment or a

4:07:08town home or a semi but that that information wasn't even included in the report so that people

4:07:16could see to give input as to this is the amount that we're waving so far and that and that we

4:07:22are picking up so I was just wondering would that information be part of this next round of

4:07:29community input so that people could see that those dollars amount yeah through the mayor of the

4:07:36councillor you know I certainly hear that and that would have perhaps shed a little bit better

4:07:43picture but at this point we want to you know engage on the items first and find out which

4:07:50ones go forward before we do the financial calculations on each one and then prioritize them

4:07:55for council and then when it comes back when we you know as part of that prioritization exercise

4:07:59there is potentially a financial component to that and that's where council will have to

4:08:05consider those financial components and and you know probably agree or disagree with the

4:08:11prioritization based on that and then what year some of those would land in as well

4:08:16at the time depending on the short, medium and long term but I absolutely hear you and we are

4:08:21working on that right now I can say that. Okay thanks Kristen. Thanks councillor Billings.

4:08:30Okay nothing further except some very short ones for me I'll try to ask them all as best as I can

4:08:36in quick manner. So in some of the research I've done I've seen some other cities actually do like

4:08:48MOUs partnership agreements with non-profit developers so that the process of them actually

4:08:59working upfront and collaboratively with city staff as their identifying land as an example

4:09:06the developer can actually be working in parallel to get stuff done quicker. I'm just going to say

4:09:15it out loud the city of Kitchener with Habitat for Humanity Habitat for Humanity has some sort of

4:09:20agreement with Whitby and so as things come up then that that local developer gets to be actually

4:09:30like working alongside quickly to get shovels in the ground for those needed homes. Is that

4:09:36something that is being looked at locally here? I guess it's not through MECA 3 it's to MECA 3.

4:09:49So yeah I think in terms of the draft actions that are presented in the housing affordability

4:09:54strategy so the 1.1.2 which is looking at evaluating the city's role in developing affordable housing

4:10:03I think that one speaks to your question in terms of MOUs.

4:10:08We could look at that and see if that's an option but we just need to do that first and it does come

4:10:15with a cost in terms of all of these as we know in terms of the draft actions. Also the land

4:10:21strategy as well would also be one of the draft actions that may address what you're seeing in

4:10:28other municipalities as well and what we could what we are hoping to do here. Okay perfect and by

4:10:35the way I just I said Habitat for Humanity just as an example it doesn't matter to me like whoever

4:10:40wants to get it done I don't care if it's a co-op I don't care but you know instead of the sort of

4:10:46constant let's put it an RFP for this and an RFP for that one and we're always waiting 30 60 days

4:10:54you have an agreement up front with whoever that is and they are working in parallel to get those

4:11:01things and get going so thank you that's a takeaway for you and then the final thing is is that the

4:11:07prioritization that's been discussed and this I was wondering how is that going to come back for us

4:11:13is it literally because you know we have like 25 30 ideas and you're going to come back and go hey

4:11:18here's here's the best bang for your buck here's the top five or whatever that is

4:11:25are you going to divide that into sort of the best top five of of keeping existing housing stock

4:11:32that we need and then sort of a top five for what we need to do for new stock new supply

4:11:38or is it going to be a mix of the both in that in that prioritization so it will be a mix of both

4:11:49yeah so we in terms of prioritization okay and then the final this takeaway from me is something

4:11:54I know that I've said before but I'm going to say it again because I think this is the opportune time

4:11:58to do it I would really really appreciate an actual little bit of a deeper dive into determining

4:12:09whether wealth municipal holdings Inc. GMHI can be used as a vehicle to help us build

4:12:19exactly what we're talking about here tonight. One of the things that we are consistently talking

4:12:26about is partnering with these people and partnering with those people and waiting for

4:12:31upper levels of government all agree I agree on all of that and we often say you know when someone

4:12:39comes to the microphone like a habitat for humanity again as an example we're like great put the

4:12:43shovels in the ground when is there an opportunity for us to talk about us putting our own shovels

4:12:51in the ground and not having to can always wait on the county or always wait on private or always

4:13:00wait on non-profit I really think as you get these land asset land things together is there an

4:13:09opportunity for the city to start actually becoming a developer and us putting our own shovels in the

4:13:15ground and getting going on these types of things and I don't know who's the best okay our new CAO

4:13:22thank you so to you Mr. Mayor I would say we're absolutely in terms of investigating the city's

4:13:30role in housing that's like first and foremost in terms of what we want to look into and if the

4:13:34model of a housing corp is the right way to do it versus you know there's other ways it can just do

4:13:40that as a division of the city as well like like the the administration of a housing corp is actually

4:13:46you know expensive yeah and and so what does that what is the value that comes out of that

4:13:51so I would say I just wanted to say that is that is part of the the action in that I think you said

4:13:57it was one point one point two so and anyway so I just I wanted to just confirm that that is that

4:14:05is being addressed in that item great thank you yeah and again gmhi department doesn't again

4:14:12none of that bothers me what what what matters to me is getting it done fast right that's what

4:14:19that's what gets to me so I appreciate that you've acknowledged that that's being looked into

4:14:24because I I firmly believe that we have to have a greater role in the actual either purchasing

4:14:33and operating or building housing stock I believe the time is actually now for that

4:14:41but okay with that I appreciate everyone's comments and feedback there has been this

4:14:49already been moved and seconded I believe yes yes clerks are saying yes so I will look to call

4:14:55the vote now is there anyone against the receiving of this hey mirror go three oh I wasn't aware that

4:15:02we were doing just calm questions and comments did I just do a very quick comment very quick I

4:15:08really want to bring it's okay I will allow a very quick comment okay thank you I'm gonna call

4:15:13the vote I know everyone wants to go home but I think to Mayor Guthrie's plan to everyone's point

4:15:20like I would love to draw everyone's attention to item 1.1 one and it's the creation of a

4:15:28community planning permit system I think this is the ultimate way in which we can be a convener

4:15:34of these conversations and personally like this is what brought me to municipal world

4:15:40and I think there's opportunity to bring the university there's probably public stakeholders

4:15:45and everyone should be aware of this and go on have your say and thank you yep I'll leave it at that

4:15:53no problem no problem thank you okay I'll call the vote is anyone against receiving this report

4:16:00nobody thank you very much staff that is excellent work appreciate it okay we are done we got bylaws

4:16:08could throw those up on the screen for me there the bylaws 2024-20999 and 2024-21000 be approved

4:16:19subject to section 284.114 of the municipal act who would like to downer and a Rourke are going to

4:16:28move and second that for me is anyone against those bylaws nobody thank you and I have no

4:16:36mayor's announcements so thank goodness for that and who wants to do adjournment for me tonight

4:16:42I see a Klassen and I see a Boussatil thank you is there anyone against adjournment

4:16:49nobody excellent everyone have a great night thank you very much