Council Planning

12:03Okay, hey everybody. Thank you very much for joining us. I'll call the meeting to order for our council meeting for the planning

12:09meeting on November the 12th 2025 and

12:15My colleagues online if you're available just pop your cameras on there. Thank you and

12:21With that I'm just said call the meeting to order and we're going to start if you're able to please stand and we can recognize our national anthem

12:30Great. Thanks everyone. Just a moment of silent reflection as we move forward in the agenda

14:04All right, thank you in our territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live here and work in Guelph a

14:21City built over rich indigenous histories as guests here

14:25We should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land and the people who live here today and the generations to come

14:32For actions today can move us towards reconciliation

14:35We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

14:40This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time

14:45But more specifically the Anwarak and the Holm Nishoni

14:48This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and Guelph lies directly

14:54Adjacent to the Haldiman track and as part of a long-established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

15:01Many First Nations Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island

15:06Call Guelph home today

15:10Thank you everybody and any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature thereof for the items that are in front of us

15:17No, don't hear or see anybody popping up their hand there. So consider that matter closed

15:23We have the consent in front of us

15:26Just a few items we have the decision report for the sign by law

15:32We have the notice of designation of 88 Ontario Street

15:38Also a notice of designation for 124

15:41liverpool Street and

15:44With those is there anybody that wants to pull any of those? Okay, Karan, which one do you want to pull?

15:56I like you already

15:58What anyone like to join Councillor Caron and seconding that would be alt. Thank you

16:03Is there anything further on the consent anybody?

16:07No, okay, I'll call the votes anyone against okay that passes unanimously. Thank you

16:14we have the one item for the public meeting for hearing the applications and

16:21that is on an a

16:24Proposed zoning by-law amendment application and council decision on endorsement of a revised

16:30Urban design master plan for 55 Baker Street and

16:34152 and 160 Wyndham Street

16:37North we're gonna have

16:39Looks like our own planner Lindsey's gonna come up with a little bit of an update through a presentation and

16:45Just a few coming forward that have signed up in advance on

16:50This property so I will turn it over to you Lindsey. Thank you very much

16:55Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie members of council staff and members of the public who are here in person or watching online

17:08Today I will be presenting the statutory public meeting report for the proposed zoning by-law amendment and a staff

17:15recommendation regarding council endorsement of the revised Urban design master plan for lands

17:21Municipally known as 55 Baker Street 152 and 160 Wyndham Street North

17:26This zoning by-law amendment application was received for the subject lands from GSP group Inc. on behalf of Baker Street

17:33development or windmill

17:35To facilitate the development of two mixed-use 17 story and 19 story towers containing approximately

17:42401 residential dwelling units with grand floor commercial and underground and podium parking

17:48The subject lands are located on the south side of Woolwood Street between Baker Street and Wyndham Street North

17:57The subject lands are approximately 1.08 hectares in size and have frontage along Park Lane

18:05Baker Street Wyndham Street North and Chaplain

18:08The north portion of the subject lands is vacant and the south portion is under construction with the city's central library

18:14Proposed as part of the Baker Street redevelopment project

18:17This site was previously subject to a zoning by-law amendment which was approved by council in December of 2023

18:28The previously approved design included two 15 story towers with two levels of underground parking two public squares and a future

18:35Development block at the north end of the site intended to be stacked townhouses

18:41Since the approval of the zoning by-law amendment in 2023 the applicant has progressed their development plans

18:47Which has resulted in modifications to the building design

18:51During this time the city completed a downtown height study and this study resulted in official plan amendment 106

18:57Which was approved by council on April 8th 2025 and subsequently approved by the Ontario land tribunal

19:04in august of 2025

19:06OPA 106 changed the permitted height for the mixed-use tower portion of the site from a maximum height of 15 stories to 24 stories

19:15The revised design includes two towers connected by a podium bridge on floors 2 to 4

19:20The proposed north tower is a 17 story mixed-use building

19:24With grand floor commercial space fronting Wyndham Square off Wyndham street and residential units on the grand floor and on floors 3 to 17

19:32A total of approximately 204

19:35Residential units are proposed within the north tower including a range of studio one bedroom and two bedroom units

19:42The proposed south tower is a 19 story mixed-use building with residential and amenity spaces located on the grand floor and floors 5 to 19

19:51One potential commercial space is also like located on the grand floor adjacent to the library urban square

19:57One level of underground parking is proposed with three levels of podium parking on floors 2 through 4 the south tower will include approximately

20:06197 units including a range of studios one bedroom and two bedroom units

20:10The underground and podium parking garage will exclusively serve the residents of the development

20:15A total of approximately 205 car parking spaces are being provided for residents

20:20And long-term bicycle parking is being provided in the underground parking garage as well within a room at grade

20:26One indoor bicycle parking space will be provided for each residential unit within the proposed development

20:32Outdoor bicycle parking will be provided to serve visitors of the site

20:37While the subject application applies to the entire site

20:40No changes are proposed to the library portion of the development, which is currently under construction

20:45Two public squares were also included as part of the proposed development

20:49And are being designed in conjunction with the two towers the portion of the site containing the library and public squares

20:55Will remain in the city's ownership while the private portion tower of the site will be purchased by windmill from the city

21:05The subject lands are designated as mixed-use one in the downtown secondary plan

21:09permissible uses within this land use designation include retail and service uses

21:14multiple unit residential buildings such as apartments and townhouse dwellings and institutional uses

21:19The mixed-use one land use designation requires the creation of active frontages by locating retail service and entertainment uses on the grand floor buildings

21:27Within this designation the zoning by-law is what establishes maximum and minimum

21:33setbacks from the street to help frame and animate adjacent streets

21:37Building heights as approved through official plan amendment 106 are permitted to be a maximum of 24 stories on the mixed-use tower portion of the site

21:45The subject lands are currently zoned a site specific downtown one dash 28 zone

21:54These site specific regulations within this zone were approved by council in December of 2023

22:00The purpose of the zoning by-law amendment application is to establish further site specific zoning regulations and the zoning by-law through a site specific

22:11downtown one zone

22:14In addition to previous site specific regulations approved in 2023 additional site specific regulations proposed include

22:21To permit a building height of 24 stories outside of the protected view corridor

22:26Whereas table 9.4 section 9.3

22:30C requires compliance with schedule b dash 4 in the zoning by-law

22:34Which outlines a building height of three to six stories on the northern and southeastern portions of the site and five to 15 stories on the central and southwest

22:41Western portions of the site

22:43To permit a floor plate length to width ratio of 1.9 to one for the north tower

22:48Whereas the site specific zoning by-law permits a length to width ratio of 1.8

22:55To one for the north tower

22:57To permit an above ground transformer to be located within a sight line triangle

23:02And that section 9.4 point 2a

23:05One of the zoning by-law not applied to the site or only applied to a podium of any building within the downtown exterior finishes overlay

23:13As shown on schedule b6

23:15Whereas the zoning by-law requires exterior facades to include coarse masonry and or materials which replicate coarse masonry

23:34So with the submission of the zoning by-law amendment the applicant also submitted a revised urban design master plan

23:40And in accordance with the policies of the downtown secondary plan the applicant prepared an urban design master plan for the baker district redevelopment

23:47Which was approved by council on july 21st 2021

23:51In consultation with staff the applicant has submitted a revised urban design master plan to reflect refinements

23:57To the proposed built form and circulation of the baker district redevelopment

24:01These refinements are the result of continued project evolution in response to market dynamics and implementation considerations

24:08Planning landscape planning and urban design staff have reviewed and provided comments

24:12On initial changes proposed to the urban design master plan

24:15And the applicant has worked closely with staff over the past several months to address comments provided

24:22Staff are satisfied that previous comments have been addressed and recommend that council approve the revised urban design master plan

24:28Further design and technical details will be addressed at the site plan approval stage

24:32The baker district is a mixed use redevelopment in Guelph's downtown core being advanced through close collaboration between the city of Guelph and the developer

24:40The revised urban design master plan continues to

24:43To represent both the public and private components of the project with recent updates focused primarily on the private development parcels

24:50While design details have evolved the project remains aligned with the city's downtown secondary plan and urban design objectives

24:58And both the architect and planning consultant for windmill will be providing further details of the revised proposal and revised urban design master plan in their presentations

25:10So next steps and staff review

25:11So the next steps for the zoning by-law amendment application will include a full review of the application

25:16And documents submitted in support of the application

25:19Once the application is reviewed and all issues are addressed a report from infrastructure development and environment will with a recommendation

25:27Will be considered at a future meeting of council

25:29So if there are any members of the public who wish to be informed on any revisions or decisions on this application

25:35Please provide your full name and contact details to planning at guelph.ca

25:40And that concludes my presentation

25:45Thank you very much appreciated

25:47I think because we do have some delegations we'll jump to them as normal and then we'll see if there's any questions at the end

25:53uh, and so with that I'd like to call up katelyn mccarthy from

25:58Uh windmill development group who is coming on down

26:02Hugh handi from gsp group is here in person and is in the wings

26:10And because this is uh, both a public and decision meeting it's 10 minutes right now no more than 10 minutes

26:16If you don't need it no problem if you need it no problem

26:19But you'll you'll hear a chime at the nine minute 30 second mark, which is your 30 second warning and then if um

26:26If you get to 10 minutes your mic gets cut off. So don't let it get there. Okay. All right. I'll turn it over to you. Go ahead

26:36Thank you. Uh, good afternoon. Mayor guthrie members of council staff

26:40And those joining us in person and online

26:43My name is katelyn mccarthy. I'm an assistant development manager with windmill developments

26:47And i'm excited to be here today to present the baker district development as part of the statutory public meeting for the zoning by-law amendment

26:56um as mentioned by mayor guthrie and

27:00Lindsay uh, oh, sorry

27:04I'm joined in person by megan tortsa our architect from dta h who will also be providing a delegation

27:10And hugh handi our planner who will also be presenting

27:14Um, I'm joined online by jeremy reeds the president of windmill developments and also in person by

27:20charlotte louington from gsp group and joe zlee from wsp our transportation engineer who are available to answer any questions

27:26Um

27:29As mentioned as well, we don't plan on taking full 10 minutes each with our delegations and we'll be using the same slide deck

27:36So we'll be happy to answer any questions together with the help of our colleagues after hugh's presentation

27:45Um, I'll start quickly by sharing a bit about windmill developments and what we do

27:49Windmill has over 20 years of experience as a real estate development firm and from the very start we have been driven by sustainability

27:56We really prioritize creating communities that are environmentally and socially sustainable and that informs the way that we design and build our projects

28:04One of the ways that we do that is through the one planet living framework that i'll discuss more in one of my upcoming slides

28:12Uh, but first just to highlight the development that we're discussing today

28:16The bigger district is located in downtown gulf and it will be a mixed use development featuring residential and retail space

28:22Along with two public squares that will integrate with the new gulf public library. That's under construction at the south end of the site right now

28:32Like the city of gulf and windmill the baker district has a heavy focus on sustainability and is actually only the second one planet living endorse community in canada

28:41I'd also just like to take a minute to mention that the baker district has been a long-standing joint effort between windmill and the city of gulf

28:48And we're really appreciative of the collaboration with the city including the planning department with lindsay

28:54And many other members of staff who are helping to bring this community to life in the heart of downtown gulf and we look forward to that continued collaboration

29:05So one planet living which i mentioned previously is a holistic framework for sustainable living that was created to help people live

29:12happy and healthy lives within the finite resources of our planet

29:16The framework is guided by 10 principles that are designed to drive innovation and

29:22Encourage action beyond just ticking a box

29:29So at the baker district will embody all 10 principles of the one planet living framework

29:35But some of our main and most impactful initiatives include being a zero carbon building per the canada green building council

29:41And this means that there will be no fossil fuels used on the project and all building systems will be electric

29:47Which will also contribute to the city of gulf's goal to be net zero carbon by 2050

29:53We will have a high performance building envelope assembly with high efficiency windows that will contribute to an overall highly energy efficient building

30:02And 25 of parking will have electric vehicle charging installed while the remaining 75 will be EV ready

30:09We will also be using sustainably focused materials and fixtures on both the interior and exterior of the project

30:15And finally we will use an extensive transportation demand management plan that promotes multimodal transportation

30:21including ride share transit cycling

30:24And to encourage

30:26Excuse me less carbon intensive transportation methods

30:33Now understanding the need for affordable housing in the current market and in an effort to support the city of gulf's affordable housing goals

30:40windmill has recently increased the target for affordable housing at the baker district to 30 percent from the 12 percent that was

30:48proposed in the previous application

30:50And currently we are using the definition of affordability from CMHC

30:55Which could result in up to 120 affordable housing units of the 401 rental units that are proposed at the site

31:06And finally just to provide some background on why we're here in front of you today

31:12in 2021 an urban design master plan for the site was approved by council

31:16And then following a couple of years of design exploration a zoning by law amendment was

31:21Requested and approved by council in 2023

31:25In the following years design efforts on the baker district continued as the market began to shift

31:30leading windmill to explore alternative design approaches including

31:34parking solutions

31:36Changes to the structure and building envelope as well as different phasing strategies

31:41And all of these explorations were informed by our new construction manager van mar

31:47Then in june of this year we presented the revised design at a public open house at the

31:53main gulf public library

31:54Where we received lots of positive feedback from members of the community

31:58Then in september of this year we submitted a revised urban design master plan and new zoning by law amendment to facilitate the new design

32:07For the baker district that you'll see today

32:10Uh, and I'll now pass it off to our architect megan torza from dth to discuss the revised design and urban design master plan in more detail

32:18Thank you for your time

32:23Thank you. Just before you switch. Did you are you just are you sharing the 10 minutes then I just wanted to make sure

32:28No, okay, so you're good then

32:31Okay, and we do have other people here council the main councilmates that are online

32:36That are here to also answer specific questions at the end

32:39So maybe we can just hear them because it looks like it's all planned

32:42So we'll hear them all out and then maybe we can do the questions at the end after

32:46After the applicant is finished all of their

32:49Their presentation. Hi, we'll start the timer for you now

32:52Go ahead. Mr. Mayor

32:54Hello, everyone. My name is megan torza. I'm an architect and partner at dth

33:02So the revised plan in front of you today and captured in the urban design master plan

33:06Uh shares many commonalities with the previously submitted and approved plan

33:12But also a few differences. So the differences include the heights of the towers

33:18From 15 story towers with only underground parking to a 17 story north tower and a 19 story south tower

33:26With the inclusion of some above grade parking

33:31So we continue to have one level of underground parking

33:34But using some portions of the podium above grade to accommodate parking as well

33:40And we are also as uh, katelin just mentioned increasing the volume of

33:45affordable housing units to 30 percent

33:48And there's also a much more aggressive

33:53opportunity and

33:54Ambition to increase the accessible housing units within this development. Well, but beyond beyond and above the

34:01OBC requirements

34:03Still relevant to the project are its ambitions to create a compact walkable

34:10and enriched public realm

34:12and a contributor to the life of downtown gwealth

34:16To provide landscaped open spaces that benefit the entire downtown not just the residents of this development

34:24And animated frontages on all blocks to bring life to the street eyes on the street and more life

34:31to the downtown core

34:36So as katelin mentioned, we submitted our

34:39urban design master plan revision in september having

34:42submitted a draft to staff earlier in the summer and receiving their comments and integrating those comments in the draft

34:52And as mentioned, we are focused on the baker district site

34:57flanked by windom street north baker street park lane north and chapel

35:03And this of course is the site already of the construction of the library

35:07Which is well underway and slated for opening next year

35:12The massing of the new baker district as I mentioned is two towers

35:1617 and 19 stories connected by a bridge at levels two to four

35:21And integrating what used to be known in our previous udmp as the townhouse lands

35:27integrating a portion of podium

35:29residential uses and parking

35:32Along the north side of the block

35:40So the configuration of buildings is not dissimilar to what we have seen before in the previously submitted urban design master plan

35:46The key difference being the connective bridge between the north tower and the south tower

35:51That forms part of the podium and allows for the above-grade parking

35:55As well as shared amenities to span between the two towers

36:00The relationship of the buildings to the urban square is proposed remains the same

36:05So windom urban square facing windom street north is flanked by a podium of the north tower that contains retail uses at grade

36:14Residential uses above an amenity terrace that overlooks windom square brings eyes onto that piece of public open space

36:22And library urban square, which is at the south end of the block

36:26Flanked by a retail space at grade within the south tower

36:30Residential units above providing eyes onto that

36:32Uh open space

36:34There have been improvements to the nature of the landscape in between those two urban squares including baker court

36:41And also improvements to the way in which vehicles enter and are accommodated on the site, which i'll go over in a minute

36:51So windom urban square in more detail, uh windom urban square is now a non stratified public open space

36:58So there is no parking below windom urban square, which is an improvement over the previously submitted plan meaning

37:05The trees that we plant the the landscape that is provided has no impediment to grow to its full and maximum height within this zone

37:14It is also the place where we are integrating stormwater management strategies including a landscape swale to take overland flow of stormwater

37:23A great deal of native plantings as well as the opportunity for public art

37:27And even patio space flanking the retail uses at grade that are within the podium of the north tower

37:37Baker court is uh in the center of the block

37:41And is the location of the two residential lobbies of the private portion of this development

37:47So both the north tower and the south tower have lobbies that face onto baker court

37:52And baker court provides the location of pickup and drop-off convenience

37:57short-term parking for

37:59residents and visitors to the site

38:03It also provides vehicular access to the adjacent parcel of land on windom street that has a parking lot that we are required to provide access to

38:12That's 146 to 150 windom street

38:16And it allows vehicles to enter and exit the site safely for residents to

38:21Provide a pickup and drop-off in a convenient manner

38:24And also allows vehicles to enter into park lane north where the ramp access and loading access are all provided

38:34Cycling circulation is also accommodated through baker court and i'll show you that in more detail in a in a future slide

38:43And of course baker court also supports safe pedestrian access both from windom urban square to baker street

38:50As well as windom urban square south to the library urban square. So we are providing

38:56uh pedestrian crossing markings and the appropriate

38:59public realm connections to allow for pedestrians to move all the way through the site in a safe manner

39:08And library urban square is the south end of the block

39:11Flanking the library as well as the retail space at grade within the south tower

39:17And there is again similar to windom square seating planting

39:20and places for gathering

39:25Access and loading have been reconfigured to focus

39:29Entirely within the park lane north area of the site. So on the northern block

39:35There are two ramps one ramp closest to

39:39Woolwich is

39:41For the underground parking which is about a hundred unit a hundred spaces underground

39:45There's a second parking ramp that takes you to the above grade parking

39:49Also from park lane north and the loading is now consolidated within one interior loading dock

39:56Off of park lane north where garbage pickup and drop off moving

40:00Etc will all be housed. So in the previous iteration that was being proposed as an outdoor loading

40:06Configuration we have now integrated it into the podium of the building

40:12Cycling circulation is provided through baker court to windom square

40:18It proposed as part of the walkway just north of the county of wellington building. So safe

40:24Safe cycling route between baker street and windom street through that connection

40:31There is bike parking below grade for all residential units as well as at grade sheltered bike parking below the

40:39Bridge connecting north tower to south tower and within windom urban square as well as library urban square

40:48The building massing does adhere to the built form requirements of the city of guelph including

40:55Tower step backs above the fourth floor

40:59Tower separation of 25 meters

41:02An appropriate separation of podium residential units as well to flanking buildings and streets

41:13And the uses as previously described there is a

41:16predominance of residential use on the on this property indicated in yellow in these diagrams

41:23retail and residential uses at grade

41:27With parking kind of concealed in between or sandwiched in between and that parking is

41:32Proposed to be screened architecturally so that it is indiscernible from the residential uses adjacent

41:39And using the high quality materials that are required within podium developments here in the downtown

41:45The library in blues at the south end of the site of course a really massive and an important public asset

41:51and amenity spaces for residents are also

41:54strategically located

41:56flanking urban squares as the rooftop I mentioned

41:59Overlooking windom urban square

42:01But also within the top floor of the bridge that connects north sour tower to south tower

42:06As well as the rooftop of that bridge are all amenity areas for the residents

42:14And finally the building materiality that continues to be proposed is a language of brick masonry cladding on the

42:20exterior of the podium portions of the building

42:22It's also the cladding of the library

42:25And the tower portions of the development will be a simple punched window

42:30cladding typology

42:32intended to be a quieter and subdued language relative to the rich

42:37articulation of the podiums

42:39And with that that concludes my presentation and I look forward to your questions. Thank you

42:46Thank you very much

42:48Did you want to take questions or do you want to talk first Hugh and then we'll do questions at the end?

42:54Okay, yeah, come on. No, no problem. Go ahead and start whenever you're ready. Thank you

43:06Thank you, uh, mayor guthrie members of council

43:09staff ladies and gentlemen

43:11My name is Hugh handy and I am a land use planner and vice president at gsp group and here on behalf of windmelt

43:18I move that forward. Yes. Thank you

43:30I'll deal now with the zoning bylaw amendment application that is part of the

43:37Proposal that's before you again some of these details. We've already highlighted

43:42I'll deal with the north tower first and then the south tower

43:46The proposed development consists of the two towers again connected by a podium bridge at two and four

43:52The north tower is slightly less at 17 stories

43:57The idea of commercial space fronting on to windmills square and off windmills street

44:03And then the residential units

44:06On the ground floors

44:07There's one level of underground parking and then the rest in the podium of the second floor

44:13There's a total of 204 units in this building and as we've talked about a range of studio one and two beds

44:20And the idea of this project again and the units are intended to be purpose built rental

44:28The south tower again will be slightly higher and the first just to remind of what lindsay said 15 stories were both before you in

44:372023

44:38This is a 19 story so it'll step down as you head north

44:44again

44:45Provincial potential commercial space is also located in the library urban square

44:51Again one level of underground and then parking in podiums floors two to four

44:56179 residential units are proposed again similar mix and again just to reiterate purpose built rental

45:05The residential amenity space

45:08Megan has touched on this but there'll be some

45:11In the north and south towers for both residents of the buildings

45:16Again on the podium bridge

45:18an indoor amenity space

45:20Ground floor of the south tower will have overlooking baker court and second floor of the north tower overlooking the square

45:29In total about a hundred

45:31Thousand square meters of amenity space is provided to the residents

45:37As mentioned, the big part of this is the city spaces to complement the towers the windom square will

45:44animate off of windom street and sort of draw you in

45:48from windom into those spaces

45:51Library square we see it as a as sort of spilling out from the library

45:56Engaging in that so that as you're kind of walking through the development there'll be different spaces unfolding

46:02and then baker court will be the

46:05Pedestrian as well as cycling and as Megan mentioned

46:09Having vehicles in and out as well

46:14Um, I think I've touched on this but again

46:17Podium parking and underground parking is part of the revised design and that was a big part of how we were going to

46:23Integrate at this bicycle parking

46:26Is also part of this secured bike room

46:30And as well as visitor parking at grade as well the planning framework

46:38Lindsay has touched on

46:40it's in a major trans station area the mixed use one and

46:45Through 106 opa official plan amendment 106 it allows up to 24 stories

46:53the

46:54d1d dot 128 was the previous zoning and

47:01That is being what I would say tweaked

47:04Through our zoning by-law amendment application that is before you

47:10In terms of building height we have

47:13Kept with the 24 stories as permitted in your

47:18Zoning by-law update

47:21We as you'll note we are at 17 and 19

47:25We felt it was appropriate to implement the 24

47:28We're in for site plan approval at the moment at 17 and 19

47:33But should anything change through that process or be tweaked we felt it was appropriate to

47:39Use that the floor plate length again as we've gone through detailed design

47:44There's been some things that have changed on the north tower

47:48And we think this is actually a design improvement that warrants the

47:52difference in

47:53Tower floor plate length to width ratio. So that's what I would call a tweak

48:00the site plan

48:02Through site planning the site triangle at the north end of the site. So this is where it would come off of baker

48:08Onto the site

48:09There is a small transformer box that we need to accommodate there

48:13And that's the reason for that regulation

48:16And then the exterior finishes

48:19this it relates to

48:21Trying to ensure that along your major corridors in the downtown that there is

48:29Materials that reflect that downtown in historic nature

48:33There is some as I said some tweaking that we require on there

48:36but as megan has indicated through the presentation the intent is to

48:41Showcase a building that fits really well and has the tower sort of fading into the into the into the sky

48:49so

48:50With that I think that brings our conclusion or our presentation to a conclusion

48:57I'd be happy to bring

48:58Caitlyn and megan back up to be here to answer any questions that council

49:04May have on the application. Thank you. Okay. Thanks. You and thank you everyone else that

49:09That has come forward. Let's just start with some questions and we'll get right to it. I'll I'll go to the screen first

49:16Caitlyn and a karan, please

49:21Thank you through you mr. Mayor

49:23Um, I thought I saw and please correct me if I'm wrong on the presentation that

49:29um

49:30Only the bachelor and one bedrooms were going to be considered for the affordable units

49:36Is that was I reading that properly?

49:40Uh through you your worship to the counselor. Uh, I I'm not sure Caitlyn. Do you want to come up on that?

49:49Yeah, I might as well come down

49:56through you mayor Guthrie

49:59The actual units that will be considered affordable won't actually be defined at this time that will come at the time of sale

50:05Or I guess rental

50:07So I can't confidently say whether it will be the one bedroom or the

50:12studio units that will end up being affordable

50:15based on the cmhc definition of affordable and the

50:20Rental rate of those units. That's how it's worked out in our plans

50:25But again, that will be determined at the time of sale. Uh, Jeremy, I don't know if you wanted to speak further to that

50:33Yeah, sorry, I assume everybody can hear but just let me know if you can't uh, no, I agree with Caitlyn. Uh, there's no

50:40Current allocation to say these units first of those units will be the affordable units

50:45A lot of it depends on

50:48In a for sale scenario versus a rental scenario the cmhc programs that are available at the time which

50:54I think everybody can appreciate or

50:56ever changing and evolving with the new federal government, but

51:00There's no plan to say one unit is specifically affordable versus another

51:05at this time

51:07Great and through the mayor, I just wonder I love hearing that there could be more than the 15 accessible. I was

51:13Trying not to clap on the screen for that one. Um, and I was just wondering when would you have more information about that?

51:21To know for sure how many

51:23I could jump in on that right now. We're currently

51:28designing to hit

51:2921 percent accessible and a lot of it ties into the cmhc financing programs that are available

51:37I do say that hesitantly in the sense of we're designing to that right now

51:41And it is very much subjective based on whether those financing programs change as a result of build canada homes and the federal government initiatives, but

51:50We've been working very closely with the cmhc as well as hick through bch engagement team to

51:58Ensure that we're aware of what those programs evolve to so that we're ready to adapt as needed, but

52:04Currently that is the design that we're working within

52:08Great, thank you very much. I think it's a fantastic development. So

52:13Happy that you're moving forward with more floors. Hopefully

52:16Thanks

52:18Thanks, councillor caitin and councillor Caron, please

52:21Great. Thank you. Through you, mr. Mayor. I'm sorry. Rick follow me original proposal that there was

52:28additional underground parking

52:30and

52:31Now the parking that is in the podium levels has increased the height now. I also recognize there are additional

52:38Permissions that have come through other

52:40I mean pieces of legislation and changes to city policy

52:44Um, the elimination of the underground parking moving it into the podiums is

52:51It was not the best urban design solution

52:54Was it related to specifically the site conditions or was it it was it was a financial

53:01cost sentence to

53:03Move it to a life-threat

53:10Through you, mr. Mayor

53:12Oh, sorry

53:14Through you, mr. Mayor

53:16Yes, it is related to the site conditions. Um, the seasonal high groundwater level

53:23Was resulting in

53:25permanent dewatering of the underground parking in the previous scheme, which uh,

53:30is obviously

53:32cost prohibitive so

53:35The move to shift parking above ground

53:40Solves that issue and therefore allows us to increase our affordable housing

53:46Provided in the development. Okay

53:48So that confirms that for me. Um, the county parking lot behind the county social services building

53:55Is that set of fence location or is there going to be some permeability?

54:00Or pedestrian through the site from the park where you come into the church areas? Is that going to be

54:08Spends for that

54:11Through you mr. Mayor to the councillor the county parking lot is fenced

54:17There is a screen proposed between the baker district and that parking lot

54:23There is however a pedestrian walkway as part of the library design that runs along the north edge of the library property and does

54:32Emerge onto the very northern end of chapel lane

54:37So

54:38There there would be a pedestrian route into the county parking lot

54:42But the county parking lot is a private parking lot. It is a regulated

54:47use area and therefore

54:50It was not

54:51articulated as being of interest to allow for

54:54massive amounts of pedestrian circulation through that site

54:58So we have pedestrian circulation along the north edge of the county property

55:02Which is where there is currently a walkway, but not

55:07Full porosity between the baker district and the county lot

55:10Okay, thank you for that and the only reason I asked that question is anyone's not really

55:14part of the decision where we move today, but

55:18It I understand the challenge of limiting where you can come up with

55:23Active transportation linkages within your development have been designed around this

55:29Have it

55:31Impediment

55:33Which may or may not change in the future, but it's good for me to be able to keep that secret

55:38um, the since the wind studies were last done and I'm asking this to be confirmed

55:46The we've had new development on the armistry

55:51That has added height had but there've been

55:55Have you packaged you new

55:58Wind studies since new development has been added

56:03Through you, mr. Mayor. Yes, we actually have a full

56:07Quantitative wind study underway by RWDI right now

56:10We submitted a preliminary qualitative wind study

56:14with the udmp zoning bylaw amendment and the quantitative study will be submitted with the site plan applications

56:21Okay, thanks. And my last question

56:24And it's an I've always been impressed by your

56:28organization's commitment to the one

56:31finite living concept and the sustainability this and design of this building and its

56:36its mechanics and its materials

56:39Has always been something I've been looking forward to seeing

56:42come to fruition

56:45And are you still committed to this being a net zero carbon development?

56:51Through you mayor Guthrie. Yes, the development will be net zero carbon per the Canada green building council

56:58So we're pursuing certification through CAGBC

57:01And that means that the development will have no combustion and use entirely electric systems

57:08Thank you. I think that that adds to the affordability for future residents and I want to commend you on that commitment

57:15Thanks, uh, councillor cost and then alt

57:20Yes, um, thank you for the presentations

57:23Um, I I really do like the urban design master plan changes and some of the the materiality particularly around

57:30Making connections to the arts and indigenous um our indigenous communities and I'm I'm curious to see how that may play out

57:37Um further down the road

57:39Um

57:40Councillor Caron did touch on one of my questions which was with regard to the county's parking lot touching the development

57:50And my question is for you and perhaps this will be a question that I ask later to staff

57:55Which is is there a way to work with them?

57:57integrate that in a way that is both functional and

58:01um

58:03Inducive to the type of change that we're trying to make to this area

58:07We're trying to move away from a surface level parking lot Baker district was was a parking lot and and I'm curious

58:13And I know that this is a conversation that has been had in the past

58:16But I'm I'd like to continue to talk about it if that's uh, if you could speak to it a little bit that would be helpful

58:25Thank you through you mr. Mayor to the councillor um

58:30Windmill and the their design team do not have any power over the county of wellington's property

58:37Nothing that we are doing as part of the Baker district prohibits the county from changing their approach to their parking in the future

58:45Uh, and there is as you I think infer great promise and potential for more

58:52interesting and

58:55Perhaps contributing uses that could happen there

59:00So the

59:02landscape that we have along the east side of our development in the in the area of the county of wellington

59:09includes

59:11A provision for a visual screen that's that provides a visual separation between the two uses

59:19In future if the county of wellington changed their approach to their site that screening could potentially be taken down

59:29There are some grading realities to our site

59:34relative to the county of wellington that um

59:37Suggest or that mean that there isn't always a zero slope or zero step relationship between the two properties

59:45But it's certainly not

59:47Outside of the realm of possibility that further connections could be made longer term

59:52But early in the design process, um, there were discussions with the county and the solution that you see presented in the urban design master plan

1:00:02continues to be the solution that is acceptable to

1:00:07And reflective of the conversations within that relationship

1:00:12Okay, thank you. I appreciate that and I'll ask it again later to staff

1:00:17My next question was with regard to the podium. Karon and I are on the same page

1:00:21Um, I looked at the the design and I'm not sure if I quite understand functionally

1:00:27What baker street will look like? I think I saw some images of the windows and then where exactly will the podium?

1:00:34um

1:00:35for the parking

1:00:37Look out to on baker street

1:00:42so starting from the north if we can imagine

1:00:46The northern portion of the building is a three-story

1:00:50Arm, let's call it that stretches north towards the park lane north, uh and baker intersection

1:00:57That arm includes grade related

1:01:02An accessible ground floor units with front doors onto baker street

1:01:07So a full line of residential units animating the streetscape with front doors along that line

1:01:14The second story of that three-story arm is a layer of parking

1:01:21And it provides access to the south tower which has a higher volume of podium parking in levels two to four

1:01:29So it is at the kind of pathway to get to the above grade parking

1:01:35Goes along the north end of the site at the second story

1:01:38The third story of that three-story arm is again residential

1:01:43So there are two stories of residential one story of parking in the northern third of the site

1:01:52The tower of course of the north tower is all residential. There's no parking in the tower

1:01:58And so the the language of the podium portion of the north tower as it

1:02:03Emerges near Baker court

1:02:06Will be represented as if it is all residential

1:02:11Even though there is a one layer of parking going through at an intermediate

1:02:17level two

1:02:19the bridge

1:02:20Is parking at level two parking at level three

1:02:25A gym amenity potentially

1:02:27Or some form of amenity at level four and a rooftop terrace at level five

1:02:33So it has an opaque portion

1:02:36Lower down which is where we have also suggested there might be a public art installation facing Baker on that portion of the bridge

1:02:43And then at the amenity level there would be a large

1:02:47Opening or window of some sort to allow for the users with the amenity to look out onto Baker

1:02:51And of course the rooftop terrace would also

1:02:54Be seen from from the ground you'd see some

1:02:57planting and things like that

1:03:00And then within the south tower

1:03:02Ground floor is all again residential uses grade related with front doors onto Baker street

1:03:11Second floor third floor and fourth floor are parking

1:03:15And they are screened behind a masonry cladding

1:03:18within the podium and we think we can do that in a way that will be

1:03:26appropriate and

1:03:29Compatible with the language of the residential

1:03:32openings within the podium elsewhere in the development

1:03:36And then the tower is above

1:03:39and so

1:03:40At grade as a pedestrian you always have active animating contributing uses against you as you walk from north to south along Baker

1:03:50The two residential lobbies also are like at the corners of Baker court at so you'll you'll walk past front doors of

1:03:57Residential units then you'll walk past the lobby then you'll cross across Baker court another lobby and then more residential uses

1:04:04And at the very south end is the proposed retail unit that faces onto library square

1:04:10so all the way along it would be

1:04:12a comfortable and and kind of residential character

1:04:17and the the parking that is above will be screened from view

1:04:21And integrated into the podium language

1:04:26Thank you. That was an excellent description

1:04:29Um

1:04:31I I was visualizing. I don't know if you could tell I was visualizing at the entire time

1:04:35You might have lost me a little bit on one of the the north tower pieces, but I think I got there

1:04:41Uh, so thank you for that and I also in my mind was thinking it's a parking sandwich

1:04:47So

1:04:49Appreciate that. I have another question with which is with regard to the

1:04:55um retail commercial uses on onto windom

1:05:00Windom

1:05:02court

1:05:04park

1:05:05Sorry urban square urban square urban square. Um

1:05:09I see that it's on an angling, you know, you know angles into sort of the invites you to kind of enter into the Baker district

1:05:17I'm just wondering I know you you spoke about the one unit on the library side

1:05:21How many units do you anticipate on the windom side?

1:05:28Through you, Mr. Mayor to the counselor. Uh, the moment I think we're showing

1:05:32Something like five retail units. There's a larger unit that faces directly onto windom urban square

1:05:39And then a series of smaller units along the walkway that connects windom urban square to Baker court

1:05:45and the idea at the moment is that you know, um some variation in scale

1:05:50might be appropriate and

1:05:53conducive to bringing

1:05:55businesses and retailers to the site

1:05:58But the the demising of those retail units. I think is subject to change

1:06:03depending upon the uh, the market conditions and who might be interested in coming

1:06:08But the design of that walkway between windom urban square and Baker court also

1:06:13There is a canopy proposed along

1:06:16Above all of those retail entrances. There are there a signage proposed that you would see as you go

1:06:21So to to improve the the way finding and visibility of the retailers

1:06:26From windom street just to encourage that that movement into the site

1:06:31And then once you're in Baker court, you would see

1:06:36One of the amenities that we are considering at the northeast corner of the south tower is actually a

1:06:42Co-working amenity. So that would also be visible at the termination of that little walkway

1:06:47So there'd there'd again be more more activity to be had in Baker court through that amenity

1:06:54Thank you, that sounds interesting and like it's a new shopping district and my last question is

1:07:00You know that we're ripping up windom street

1:07:02to accommodate

1:07:04new build and and and this development

1:07:07So

1:07:08With that in consideration, what is your timeline for construction?

1:07:15through you mr. Mayor

1:07:18Currently our timeline to shovels in the ground are is going to be dictated by the approvals process

1:07:25So our amazing design team is moving as fast as they can. We're we're pushing full steam ahead on the design

1:07:32So the site plan application that we've we've just submitted a pre-constation application last week

1:07:37That's really where we have our eyes set on our kind of next step and and that will dictate when

1:07:43We're looking to get shovels in the ground

1:07:45Um, I think another piece of that is the federal funding availability

1:07:51um

1:07:52So that's to be seen

1:07:54Um, but at a high level I would say right now we're targeting early 2027

1:08:02Okay, thank you and and one more chair if you just just with it opened a new question

1:08:09Okay, I do have time

1:08:12Okay, my

1:08:14What do you when do you anticipate to know more about the federal funding?

1:08:20Uh, I can jump in there if that's okay. Um

1:08:25It's an ever-evolving cycle right now unfortunately. Um

1:08:31Current understanding from most, uh, real estate developers and government is that most of the standard programs are going to stay in place and function as they are

1:08:43Uh, build Canada homes for anybody that is falling along with it is a new

1:08:48Call a crown corp entity that's being stood up and it's in the process and

1:08:53Most of their employees are part of hick

1:08:56so it's still

1:08:58I'd say week by week evolving right now

1:09:00We were expecting that more information would have came out of the federal budget that would have provided more clarity

1:09:07uh, unfortunately, it's

1:09:10Kind of two steps forward one step back in the sense of some information keeps becoming available

1:09:14but there's still no certainty or clarity of what that will look like and how it functions but

1:09:20We're currently intending to and most other, uh

1:09:26Developers in the for-profit and non-profit space are all focusing on the aspect of expecting the standard programs to be there

1:09:33and it's just whether they improve or get better so

1:09:37we remain hopeful and

1:09:39We have constant conversations with CMHC as well as bch

1:09:44To ensure that we're active in those conversations

1:09:49I would say we are a leader in the space and a lot of the innovation and sustainability initiatives that align with it

1:09:54So we're trying to be part of those conversations as much as we can

1:09:59Okay, thank you

1:10:02Councillor Allt of all your questions been asked

1:10:05I wish that were true. Thank you very much mayor Guthrie. Um, and through you to

1:10:10particular delegates, but before I do first of all, I would like to thank windmill for being a very important part of downtown

1:10:17revitalization, I think that that needs to be stated that it is it really is the impetus in many respects for

1:10:23What we're doing moving forward

1:10:25First question actually is is one uh for um, mrs. Fortsa

1:10:29And it's an education question as much as anything else and I apologize if it sounds pejorative

1:10:34But the question is why is affordability a con an architectural concern?

1:10:39That implies to me that there's a qualitative difference that's being addressed and I'm hoping you can explain that to me

1:10:48From a design side, I'm not sure that affordability is a concern

1:10:53We're designing all of these units in an equal manner with equal durability and considerations

1:11:00appropriate for rental tenure

1:11:02So, uh, they need to be durable. They need to work things. Can't break all the time because the the obligation to fix it remains with the developer

1:11:12and so

1:11:14affordability in that in that regard is not a is not a concern

1:11:19I think there is a bigger affordability, which is just the realities of

1:11:24affording to be a developer in this day and age

1:11:26and affording to build and so many of the revisions that have happened over the course of the last few years have been very

1:11:34sensitive to

1:11:35How do we continue to uphold the sustainability ambition of this project while actually being able to deliver it

1:11:44And actually being able to rent units at an affordable price point in a meaningful amount of units. So

1:11:52The pro forma is informed by the ambition for affordability

1:11:57But it does not imply

1:11:59or require

1:12:02Some units to be designed in a different way than others

1:12:05I appreciate that because when I saw saw one of the slide deck there. I thought

1:12:11This isn't this isn't adding up your answer was fine. Thank you

1:12:15Um, but related to that as well

1:12:16There was reference to amenities and I don't know to whom this is addressed

1:12:21But I'm presuming the amenities gymnasium the uh,

1:12:24live work office spaces and so on

1:12:27Our user pay is that correct?

1:12:32Sorry, uh, Jeremy, I don't know. Maybe if you can speak to that. I don't I don't think they are

1:12:37To be paid at all. It'll be provided to the residents. Okay. So every resident. That's great. Thanks

1:12:43um, a more difficult question

1:12:45I don't know if anybody can answer this one is that

1:12:48In the downtown there is a dearth of schools

1:12:52We we just don't have them and I am concerned about intensification and

1:12:57um a um a young population moving into

1:13:01These buildings. So I'm kind of uh concerned. What is the projected market? Are we looking at families? Are we looking at

1:13:09empty nesters? Are we looking at a broad spectrum of individuals who would be and families that would be living there?

1:13:17Uh, through you mr. Mayor um at a high level what our understanding is right now is that uh, the building would be

1:13:26um split between empty nesters and potentially students

1:13:30So, uh, we aren't we aren't really considering families at this time and I think that's reflected in the unit mix as well. Um

1:13:38Obviously that's still to be seen, but that's how how we've anticipated it so far

1:13:42So clarification we're talking about post secondary students. Sorry. Yes. Okay. Thanks. Thank you very much

1:13:49All right, is there anything more at all?

1:13:53All right, I have just one question for you

1:13:56because I happen to see

1:13:59one of my old neighbors here who happens to

1:14:02Could be living across the street from you

1:14:04Uh, and I didn't talk to them, but I would imagine maybe one question would be

1:14:09um, how are you going to from uh

1:14:13usability perspective maintain

1:14:16Sort of the construction and the roadway and the access and stuff like that to people across the way respect the people across the way

1:14:23during construction and whatnot

1:14:28Jeremy are you able to speak to that? That's a bit out of my wheelhouse

1:14:32Yeah

1:14:34To be honest, I'm asking Jeremy is how are you going to be a good neighbor? Yeah, uh, so every time you work through

1:14:43Call it the construction cycle and van Mar has been great to date

1:14:47in the pre-con phase, but

1:14:49Always work with them to understand a the city as well as the site constraints and then ensure that there's a plan in place of how that will

1:14:58Effectively function throughout that construction cycle part of it is the site staging and how you just move through the site in this development cycle

1:15:06but

1:15:07it's one of those things that we always

1:15:09focus

1:15:10a lot on

1:15:12The detailed plan for that phase and as well as the engagement with the city and then any neighboring sites to make sure everybody understands how that's going to function

1:15:21And make sure it's well communicated and articulated

1:15:23I think the most important aspect of this in success on any pass site that we've done as well as any good developers

1:15:31Open lines of communication and engagement through that so that people are aware of the process and how it's happening

1:15:38Okay, that's great. Thank you

1:15:40There's no further questions here for us

1:15:42So we appreciate your team coming up and being with us and we'll bring it back to us and just a few minutes

1:15:47I just do have to ask to see if there's any

1:15:50Anybody else that would like to comment on it?

1:15:53Or if someone wanted to call in so thank you again

1:15:56And is there a number that's going to pop up on the screen as well? Let me see if I can remember 519837

1:16:045603

1:16:075198375603 we'll just wait a few moments to see if there's a call in and while we do that

1:16:13It does anyone else in the audience need to speak to this item?

1:16:17No

1:16:18Okay, we'll just wait a few minutes here. Okay. Okay. We've had no one call in at all. So it's back to us

1:19:20council

1:19:21Uh, you know how this works. I need someone

1:19:25Maybe I'll go to the downtown

1:19:28counselors first. I might I don't want to pressure you but do you want to do want to table the

1:19:33approval

1:19:36Okay, okay

1:19:37Colosson and Gawler

1:19:39Make sense and then is there any questions for staff?

1:19:42Okay, Colosson

1:19:45Yes, thank you through you mr. Maric staff

1:19:48um

1:19:48My first question is like a bit of a circle back on the question that I asked the developer which is with regard to the relationship with the county

1:19:57and this development is there

1:20:00Can you speak with them again?

1:20:03with regard to integrating that parking lot into this development in a way that is

1:20:08seamlessly

1:20:09Seamless and with regard to the function that the new functions of the area

1:20:20Through the mayor to

1:20:21counselor Colosson so the county was circulated as part of this development application and also back in 2023. So I believe

1:20:30um, the architect's response was accurate in terms of that there have been numerous discussions at an early stage and the design

1:20:37accurately represents discussions with the county to date. There's been

1:20:41um, we haven't heard from the county

1:20:43um, through our recent circulations

1:20:46um

1:20:46But the design doesn't preclude any future integrations should the county plans change

1:20:56Okay, thank you. Um, appreciate the current state

1:21:01I

1:21:08I'm gonna stop there. I have other questions, but I I need to sit on this one for a second. Sorry

1:21:17That's okay

1:21:19It looks like there's nobody else though. So you might

1:21:22it's

1:21:23Everyone's stare at counselor Colosson

1:21:29Your dear wardmate saving you counselor Guller your worship through you to staff

1:21:36Could you help me understand the one request from the developers about the transformer box that is on the on the view

1:21:42Could you help me understand? You know, what are we looking at in terms of the?

1:21:48The the concern of the view being blocked by that

1:21:52By the utility box

1:21:55Uh through the mayor to counselor Guller

1:21:59Um, that's something that we're gonna have to talk with zoning staff because I don't believe

1:22:03Section 4.6. We did include it in the report, but section 4.6

1:22:08Which deals with the sight line triangles doesn't actually apply to the d1

1:22:12zones. Um, so

1:22:15We'll have to take a closer look through our formal zoning review, but

1:22:19It usually is in other areas with regards to having like a

1:22:23Just so the sight line triangle isn't obstructed for and blocks of view of vehicles entering or exiting a site

1:22:29Okay, okay. I really appreciate that. Thank you

1:22:32Thank you worship

1:22:33Okay, counselor Colosson. Oh, you're good now. Okay

1:22:36perfect

1:22:38All right, I think we're okay counselor busitil and then I'll call the vote

1:22:42Yes, thank you and just uh through the mayor to the staff. I was really surprised that there were no family kind of

1:22:49Units being considered, you know, my my mailbox is full of

1:22:53You know, the

1:22:54Families are outgrowing our cities and and the outflow of families

1:22:59Can you explain that to me when you're having conversations?

1:23:03About the type of units that we really need for families in the city

1:23:11Through the mayor to the counselor. Um, so this is the proposal that the applicant has put forward

1:23:15I think we through pre con applications

1:23:18Um through multiple projects through the city, but we do always encourage applicants to provide

1:23:24Um, you know, three bedroom units two three bedroom units. This one is proposing. Um, I think bachelor is one and two bedroom units, but

1:23:33um, we also don't the zoning bylaw doesn't zone for families. So

1:23:39Um, you could possibly still get

1:23:41This uh some different, you know, parents with children in two bedroom units

1:23:46It's really up to up to the developer

1:23:48But we do always encourage larger units because we know there is a need but we we can certainly have further discussions with the developer on this

1:24:00Thanks. I saw some heads nodding as well. So I appreciate that

1:24:04All right, I'm going to call the vote everybody

1:24:07on both the receive and approval of this

1:24:11and uh

1:24:13I'll just say a quick comment

1:24:15Uh, a lot of people have been waiting for this to just to be done

1:24:19Right. So I really appreciated. I forget who it was. I think it was you councillor crossland that asked the sort of how quickly

1:24:26Could we get going here? And I I appreciate the answer

1:24:29Oh, it's uh, it's how quick the city can help with you know, site plan stuff. I can guarantee you they're ready to go

1:24:35Okay, so I just uh, I think we would love to see those shovels in the ground as soon as possible

1:24:40And I think the shovels in the ground as soon as possible might even help you with the federal

1:24:44sort of ping pong that's happening around

1:24:47Build Canada homes and the other programs that are there. I know exactly what you're talking about

1:24:52I think the quicker you can get in and get that certainty is actually a plus for you. So, um

1:24:58You know getting more people living in our downtown is is what we want as a vibrancy and and I think just having construction in that area

1:25:06end for once

1:25:07would be also a good thing as well and uh, so

1:25:11Uh, we wish you all the best and thank you very much for for coming forward with this

1:25:17With that, um, I'll call the vote who's is anyone against

1:25:23Okay, that's unanimous. Thank you very much. Appreciate it

1:25:28Okay council we're moving on to the next thing

1:25:31Which is just the arthur street on street parking item that I put on to the um onto the agenda for a quick discussion

1:25:41So

1:25:42Works, I don't know if you have an opportunity to throw up

1:25:46the the map

1:25:47Yeah, would you do that maybe for me?

1:25:50and um

1:25:53It's actually the second one. Yeah, that has the little green part on it. That would be the best

1:26:01I'm gonna do as best as I can as I try to table what's in front of us here

1:26:05And I might look to some of my counselors just to validate but uh, not my counselors, but the counselors for

1:26:12Your work, um

1:26:15Yeah, yeah, yeah true

1:26:18so

1:26:19What's what's happened here is that we have this

1:26:24Pretty cool site at the corner the triangle corner

1:26:29That has been created a few years ago into three little micro businesses

1:26:34And historically there was always this kind of parking around the area, but especially where that green line is

1:26:42Okay

1:26:44And yet as I've been told

1:26:49Technically

1:26:52There was not supposed to be parking there

1:26:55It's just that it was not enforced

1:26:58And then all of a sudden

1:27:00Signs went up

1:27:03To to meet to meet the historic

1:27:06You know no parking allowance in that area

1:27:10And that's what triggered sort of the conversation that occurred with coming to the counselors and myself and others

1:27:16Uh for those little micro businesses

1:27:19And so I did engage with staff a little bit. So did so did counselor claus and and caller

1:27:24And this is what's come forward

1:27:27And so what's what's interesting in in in in our proposed proposal here

1:27:33There's there's two motions. I just it's kind of a little bit odd, but the first motion is to sort of

1:27:39Take away. What is there?

1:27:41It kind of have to do this in a two-step process and then the next motion would be to do what you see on the screen

1:27:48Okay, it's it's kind of odd, but that's that's the way it would work and what that is

1:27:54is about

1:27:57Right me if I'm wrong, but maybe six or seven spots for cars like it's

1:28:03That's it. Okay. So it's not

1:28:05You know 50 cars or anything like that and again historically they were always there

1:28:11To be used. It's just that it was never

1:28:14Signed it was never signed and it was never

1:28:18Enforced and so what's happened is is that now no one can park there number one and number two

1:28:25There's been a little bit of some complaints because now the cars that were normally there. They're parking into

1:28:32those residential areas

1:28:34Okay, so

1:28:36We are here

1:28:37Councillor Clausson and galler and I we are here to advocate

1:28:41To allow the parking where it was

1:28:44being used

1:28:46So that those six or seven little parking spaces can be used

1:28:50And and can move forward from there. I hope I've explained it well, but let me just ask

1:28:55Councillor Clausson and galler if there's anything I missed

1:28:59Yes, and thank you three mr. Can I move it?

1:29:02Oh, yeah, okay

1:29:05Okay, and I just would like to add a

1:29:07Some commentary to the area if that's okay

1:29:10I spend a great deal of time in this area and I also used to live across the street

1:29:14So I have like a little bit more of a history since it's become this new

1:29:19Micro business area

1:29:21prior to it

1:29:23Be it was that it was a garage

1:29:25And it was it was there was a semi trailer parked in the area

1:29:30That is currently parked uses parking now

1:29:33And it sat there for I don't know how many years at least the three that I lived across the street from it

1:29:38So it was a very underutilized area that was in fact. I think a subject of complaint for for many other reasons

1:29:46and so

1:29:48This area I haven't received. I've received a couple of complaints, but I've also received an overwhelming amount of of positive

1:29:56Um feedback around this area and so allowing this tiny little section of parking to exist

1:30:04supports

1:30:05The businesses in a way that I think is is positive, but it doesn't create that much turmoil to the area

1:30:13Um, and I think that's it for for now

1:30:19Councillor Allt, please. Thank you very much mayor Guthrie through you to staff

1:30:24And I don't know whether it would be mr. Anderson or mr. Gayman

1:30:27As I saw mr. Anderson there, that's what twig this but um

1:30:32In principle, I have no problem with this. I have to admit I am guilty of having parked there

1:30:37Uh, so and I'll be quite honest about that

1:30:40However, I do wish to hear from the traffic engineers because we're doing this in kind of a

1:30:49Pardon the expression but kind of a haphazard fashion without hearing from staff

1:30:54So and also the other question I'd like to ask is why just this why not more?

1:31:02That these are these are issues that are important. So I know the street pretty well

1:31:05It's a challenging street in many respects. So if mr. Anderson and mr. Gayman could

1:31:10Comment I'd appreciate it. All right. Good afternoon everyone through the mayor to councillor Allt

1:31:18So when this first came to our attention

1:31:20Um

1:31:22just for council

1:31:23Council's benefit who wasn't uh on council at the time and about 2018 or 2019 we brought some updated

1:31:30Parking policies and one of the aspects of the parking policy is

1:31:34Depending on the width of the street. We can accommodate parking on both sides

1:31:38One side or no sides to maintain emergency access. So using that policy. We verified that if we did

1:31:47Introduce and formalize the parking on this portion of Arthur street. There's still sufficient width on the street

1:31:54It will not create any operational

1:31:57Concerns in fact, there's on street parking permitted on the opposite side of Arthur street further north

1:32:03on the map. So from uh from that standpoint

1:32:08It it's permissible. It should not cause any operational concerns on Arthur street

1:32:14As to the second part of the question

1:32:16There is a reasonable amount of parking provided in the neighborhood

1:32:20Again, the the street widths here are narrow to the point. It's very difficult to accommodate parking on both sides of the street

1:32:27So on Arthur street north of this site. There is permitted parking on the called the east side

1:32:32So if you're traveling up to elizabeth street, there's also on street parking permitted in sections of ontario street

1:32:40So the cross street

1:32:41where it is there so

1:32:44I

1:32:45Admittedly staffing go do a comprehensive sweep to ensure that every possible space could be permitted

1:32:52But there is also parking in the vicinity

1:32:56That was a bit long-winded, but I hope that captured what you're asked for

1:33:00Your long wind is fine with me

1:33:03Actually, I I will support this because I actually do believe that

1:33:07Parking on street does provide a modicum of traffic calming as well and as a consequence of that

1:33:13I have no issue with this

1:33:16Thank you, uh, kaiten and uh, and then kaiten and

1:33:20No one else karan and then that will be it

1:33:24Thanks to you mr. Mayor um, so

1:33:28My concern is not necessarily with the content. It's with the process because

1:33:33the only um

1:33:35resident

1:33:37Communication that I received was against this so without

1:33:41Going through the process where we open it up to feedback and then we have

1:33:45Hear back from things like on a staff level of feedback then I don't know

1:33:51What the actual

1:33:53Residence feeling is like I trust that you got the emails that you got. Um, I'm just concerned

1:33:58Um, what would be the alternative to this if we were to go through

1:34:03The proper staff

1:34:05process

1:34:06To have this approved. What would that look like?

1:34:13Sure. Um, yeah, so I'll start and then if if staff want to correct me, which they normally do that's fine

1:34:20So an alternative would be to do an actual survey like a formalized survey of the area

1:34:26which would allow

1:34:28That feedback that you just uh suggested councillor kaiten

1:34:32And then that would become back to us in a report and we but it would take quite a while to do that

1:34:38Q1 q2 of next year maybe at the earliest

1:34:42And so in the meantime these

1:34:44Six or seven

1:34:46Five six seven spaces would then not be able to be used as they as they already normally were

1:34:53So that is the alternative

1:34:57And I think staff are saying yep, they're not in their head

1:35:03Thank you

1:35:05And just one second just on that same points. Let me confer with councillor downer for one second

1:35:21Okay, no, we're good. Sorry councillor Caron over to you

1:35:27Sorry, um, thank you and I've got a question along with similar lines like we've got

1:35:32Neighborhoods and streets who ask for traffic and parking restrictions

1:35:37And we put them through a process

1:35:39um, and there's a queue um

1:35:42and I believe that um

1:35:44The uh that process can take you know a short period of time a survey can go out and a decision can be made within three to six months

1:35:52So when I hear that if we refer this back to staff, it's going to be you know q2 q3

1:36:00Um, I just I wonder if staff could tell us how quickly a process can happen for a modification

1:36:06Of this nature because when it appears on an agenda like this and I'll I'll

1:36:11I'll just lay it on the line it it there's been no public input

1:36:15There's no signage on the property to let residents of the area even know that this is happening unless you are reading

1:36:22A council agenda and you've seen this on a council agenda the residents the area wouldn't know about this

1:36:28I I my concerns are all about process not about function for an extra three months

1:36:34To get that public input there may the reason we have a public process

1:36:38If there may be adverse impacts that we're not aware of

1:36:43And I as a member of council have to make any decision and I count on a public process to help me make that decision

1:36:51So without a public process, I can't vote on this

1:36:55So I have no choice. I'm gonna I'm going to refer this back to staff to follow a

1:37:00Public process for parking restriction removal

1:37:03Um, and and then I can make an informed vote on the matter

1:37:07I know that slows it down potentially by three months, but I'd like to hear from staff how quickly they can do that

1:37:12And the reason just as background there's a reason why there's a no parking zone in this area

1:37:18That wasn't just added to our parking restrictions were no reason

1:37:21It would have been studies when they would have been public process to make this area

1:37:27No, uh, no parking so I mean

1:37:31So let's just let's just

1:37:33Complaint base. I'm sorry, but we'll put the other referral on on the floor. Yeah, let's just let's let's see if we have a seconder for a referral. Okay

1:37:42Next

1:37:43Okay, kate and wills will will refer

1:37:45And then we've heard the question about how fast you might be able to come back

1:37:49Just to be clear when I tried to answer councillor kate's question. I never said q2 or q3

1:37:54I did say q1 or q2, which was the original I think answer from staff

1:37:58So, uh, but let's hear it from staff and not from me

1:38:01And I do have another question for staff. So you got it. Yep questions together

1:38:06The one is how to come back and the second is

1:38:09Because parking is complaint based

1:38:12enforcement

1:38:13If there's no complaints for these parking spaces

1:38:18And people are parking there. You're not you're not doing proactive enforcement in this in this area

1:38:23at this time

1:38:27So through the mayor to councillor Caron. So thank you for the questions with respect to a couple things just to remind council

1:38:33There is a an upcoming citywide parking strategy that is part of staff's work throughout

1:38:382026 and into 2027 and certainly that's part of the future on how we do this

1:38:42You may recall staff have paused on street convenience parking surveys and reviews. Um, and that's been for some time now as we

1:38:48Um, look to that future strategy and consider sort of the competing workload demands

1:38:52And so work like this is not standard on our work plan at this time

1:38:56Which is why it's in front of us

1:38:58through this this motion from the mayor and so

1:39:01With respect to timing if we were asked to to put this work into our work plans

1:39:04We would just need a little bit more time than normal, which is why we're asking for q1

1:39:08That would that would be the time that we require

1:39:12to do that if we were to

1:39:14include the public survey aspect

1:39:17Otherwise, it's something we can operationalize quite quickly. Um, and I think that's the intent behind

1:39:22What's in front of you?

1:39:24Okay, um, and I appreciate that. Um

1:39:28I'm referring it back to staff. I'm hearing that it could come back in q1. It's the middle of november right now

1:39:34So this could come back in january or february

1:39:37potentially

1:39:39Sure the mayor to to the councillor

1:39:42I would like to hold on to the entirety of q1 there. So it may be sort of closer to the end of march

1:39:48Fair enough. Um, okay

1:39:50Again, the referral is because there may be adverse impacts to the neighborhood that i'm not aware of so i can't

1:39:55comfortably vote on this tonight

1:39:57I do recognize the intent and I appreciate the counselors in that area and the micro businesses made this parking

1:40:04And that may be the outcome, but I need to make a informed decision before I vote

1:40:10all right, I

1:40:12Like we're kind of a yes or a no on this

1:40:14So I don't think we need to go like really in depth here. So we're only speaking on the referral. Okay. I know I have downer first

1:40:21On the referral and then Gibson. So to me it I know it feels yes or no to you, but not to me

1:40:29But even on the referral like I am I do feel a bit of a dilemma here because I get lots of requests

1:40:35in my ward for to change parking

1:40:38And and you know and there's a process that you go through to do that

1:40:43And if I now I can just tell them what just just just email the mayor and he'll put it on the agenda

1:40:49It that's what it feels like to me because they all have in unique issues

1:40:55Or or now they can point to what they just had to email their counselors and they got it on an agenda

1:41:01So it it and there's no letters in here even asking for this

1:41:05I haven't seen like this is new to me what's happening in your ward

1:41:10And I and I I appreciate that you're coming and anecdotally telling me that there's issues

1:41:15But I haven't seen a letter of request

1:41:19There's no letter here like in in the package saying that there's a request

1:41:24So it's it's a dilemma for me

1:41:27As a counselor because I don't know the president that I'm sitting here and expectations from my own

1:41:33constituents based on this

1:41:35And and this is what we have to do now because we don't have a formal parking survey

1:41:41Uh thing so, you know, I actually you know, I sort of talking myself into you know into supporting

1:41:47the referral just um

1:41:49Outlining those concerns that I feeling that I have as a counselor

1:41:54All right, uh Gibson and then uh galler and then alt and then I'll let you call the vote on the referral

1:41:59Thank you, uh through

1:42:01I'm Eric Guthrie. Um, I I

1:42:05I feel the same way as counselor downer

1:42:11I've had so many email asking me to have help with parking

1:42:17And I and I always go send them straight to the transportation group

1:42:22I ask for governance. I ask for

1:42:26If stop signs parking traffic lights, everything goes through data driven decision making

1:42:32Within our government within our transportation group and my fear and I'm I'm all for making some

1:42:38Some decisions like I like making decisions. I don't like falling back on buses. I don't know the players here

1:42:44I don't know the personalities. I just know

1:42:47That if I get stopped on the street tomorrow

1:42:50And they say Dan, why'd you do that and you didn't help me with my situation?

1:42:54I I'm stuck. That's that's a that's a one of those ironic moments that I keep I sometimes talked about so I

1:43:01I feel like

1:43:03um

1:43:04In the absence of understanding the situation a little bit better

1:43:09Uh and having that information from staff. I'm gonna fall back on policy a little bit here

1:43:13Just for my own integrity process because I I do want to be able to have those conversations on the street saying

1:43:21Yes, I made that like if I yeah

1:43:24But if I make this decision now, what do I say to the 10 people that have emailed me in the last six months asking me for

1:43:29Help with parking that's hard for me. So um, I hope staff can get it back quickly. Maybe one question to staff though

1:43:36Um, I didn't hear it explicitly in the conversation

1:43:38Why does the no parking there exist? Can you just clarify that for me?

1:43:45Now and is the on street overnight parking exemption applying in this situation?

1:43:50um

1:43:51now

1:43:57Through the matter councillor Gibson. I don't know offhand when that parking regulation

1:44:02Was changed on Arthur street as councillor uh, cause and alluded to

1:44:07Um, we have made a change in that area in quite some time

1:44:10um

1:44:12I know the desire is to vote on this today

1:44:15Um, but I'd have to do a bit of digging with the help of clerks to determine when that particular part of the no parking schedule was amended

1:44:23Uh for Arthur street. It hasn't been recently. I can confirm that

1:44:29Uh as for overnight parking the intent would be that this would be

1:44:33The same as almost every other on street parking in the city

1:44:36No issues in the summer but come december 1st

1:44:40To march 30th

1:44:42You would not be permitted to park overnight in this area on the street. Okay. Thank you

1:44:50Okay, thank you

1:44:52I think I had alt

1:44:54Okay, thank you goer then alt. Okay. Thank you. Thank you through your worship to my fellow

1:45:00council members

1:45:01I think one key key part of the conversation for me that that I think is worth for us to keep in mind

1:45:07um

1:45:08Last year a year ago. I could have gone there and I and I would have parked there and I did I I would park there

1:45:14Um, and even two months ago

1:45:17I would go there and I would park there when I visited either the double rainbow standing room the gallery around the corner

1:45:24Um, and then there was a realization that it was an oversight and then the no parking signs went up

1:45:30So as we heard from mr. Game and there is a citywide on street parking review

1:45:35The city has allowed parking to take place here for the last several years

1:45:41Um, we the business is open there with the premise that there was that additional on street parking

1:45:47I think with this motion all we're asking is let the parking that was

1:45:53permitted there

1:45:54Stay until the citywide on street parking review happens and it could be that new regulations come up

1:46:01Something changes

1:46:03But I think there is a real impact to the community to the neighbors to the businesses in that area

1:46:10And i'm just asking for you to support this to vote against the referral

1:46:14Because there is a review that has been done citywide and that may change things but for now

1:46:20Let this stand so we can continue to use the parking that was there

1:46:24Two three four months ago a year ago two years ago

1:46:28Thank you

1:46:29All right moving right along only on the referral

1:46:33Thank you. Well, kate and hauser. Thank you, mayor guthrie. I have been suitably chastised by my colleagues and I will support the referral

1:46:42Um in reflecting on this I thought this is not an emergency if it ever was we could suspend the rules

1:46:48But parking is not an emergency in this case and as much as I like this

1:46:53I think it is absolutely imperative that do process be

1:46:57Supported less at any point we as a council be accused of favoritism or

1:47:02Unfavoritism if you wish at any point

1:47:04I think counselors gibson and downer expressed it very very well for for four months

1:47:11Let's preserve the integrity of process

1:47:15Uh kate in uh hauser and then I think billings did you have your hand up billings?

1:47:21Yeah, okay, then we'll wrap it up with billings

1:47:24Through you mr. Mayor. Um, I just wanted to call it that there's also been a long-standing tradition of

1:47:30parking at the area in front of that cowboy bar

1:47:33From nonprofits who set up tables in that area and then recently signs went up because it was not listed

1:47:39But it was actually technically so this is the same situation and we're not allowing nonprofits to park there to do for food services

1:47:46so

1:47:47It's not a unique situation and everything has to go through the process

1:47:52So that's why I'm going to be voting for referral because I do think that we would be heavily accused of favoritism for this

1:47:59Thanks

1:48:00All right. Thank you, and I'm sorry. I think I said hauser. Yep hauser and then we'll wrap it up with billings

1:48:07um

1:48:08Through the mayor. Um, thank you

1:48:10Councillor cune for bringing that up as well. I had forgotten about that issue

1:48:14My question is why

1:48:16Our signs going up if there is a pause in the parking strategy and no changes are being made

1:48:20I know that uh in word six are a lot of questions that are asked and we've been told

1:48:25You know, we're just pausing and we're waiting and to come back

1:48:28um for uh after the strategy is over and we put in the request, but we're just waiting and waiting

1:48:33So I'm just wondering why signs are going up if we're waiting for it to be paused

1:48:39That makes sense

1:48:41Through the mayor to the councillor so

1:48:44As councillor coston spoke to earlier the nature of the previous business

1:48:48There was this long gap and there was often this truck parked there

1:48:51So I suspect what happened over the years is an existing sign either got removed and we weren't aware of it

1:48:57Or there was such a gap between the no parking signs

1:49:01That people were parking in the area

1:49:03So what had happened was people started parking there. It came to our attention

1:49:09It had always been restricted in our bylaw

1:49:12So we just reinforced it by putting the sign up. We we hadn't changed any regulation

1:49:18Um, we were either just putting up an old missing sign or because the nature of the business changed

1:49:24It made sense to put a sign up in between a larger gap of the signs if that makes sense

1:49:34um

1:49:35I guess just uh why now like why like because both of those incidents happen within like a recent amount of time

1:49:40So like those businesses of the corner have been there for a few years now

1:49:46And I mean the bench has been operating there for a long time

1:49:50Um through the mayor to the councillor this really first came to our attention. I want to say back in

1:49:56july or august and that's um

1:50:00After the review, that's when we put up the no parking sign

1:50:04which then got the business owner to get in contact with the city and

1:50:08Um, that's why we're here today

1:50:14Thank you. Thank you. All right billings

1:50:17Then I'll call the vote

1:50:19Yeah, I apologize. Councillor howzer asked my question because it didn't make any sense to me for pausing

1:50:24Um, it looks like maybe the referral will pass. However, I won't support the referral

1:50:29Only because this is not a change parking has been going on here for quite a while

1:50:34So therefore I won't support the the referral and then everything else should be paused except for if there's another issue

1:50:42That is similar to this

1:50:44Which I don't think signage should have been put up if there's a pause there's a pause

1:50:48And then I wouldn't have a problem with council hearing that issue as well. So I will not be supporting the referral

1:50:56All right, let's find out where this lands. Let's find out where we park this situation

1:51:04All right, obviously I won't be supporting the referral. I mean, I would I would ask my colleagues to not support it

1:51:09Some of you will that's okay. Um

1:51:12Like literally a couple of months ago not even you could pull up here at park and go and support a business and grab a coffee

1:51:19It's been like that for years

1:51:21So some of the changes some of the some of the pushback here from some of my colleagues

1:51:25I do understand and respect when someone calls and says I want this change

1:51:31To to my to my road or to my area, but the none of that has occurred here. There was already

1:51:38The six or seven parking spots and the very first

1:51:42Question that was answered by staff was we went and checked. There are no operational issues

1:51:48There are no emergency constraints for our vehicles. It is okay to do it here. So it's a historically parked area

1:51:57I would like to try to support these this little micro business area

1:52:01And again, if we if we all

1:52:03Said two months if we all said a month and a half ago. Do you want to have a coffee at double rainbow?

1:52:09I'll meet you there

1:52:11We'd we'd all we'd all be able to park there

1:52:15Until they we can't so I would like the referral not to pass but we'll see where it where it lands

1:52:20So i'll call the vote those against the referral. Please raise your hand

1:52:27Okay, what is it there? So Richardson galler

1:52:31bosson guffrey

1:52:34and

1:52:36billings

1:52:37and

1:52:38Chew and hauser so at seven so that is against

1:52:43So we're going to get back to the main motion

1:52:45And i'll call the vote on the main motion to allow it

1:52:49All those against the main motion to allow it raise your hand

1:52:53Okay, so downer and

1:52:58Alt

1:52:59And

1:53:00Boussatil I think it my first day here

1:53:03Uh, kate and and karan

1:53:05Okay, so that passes

1:53:07All right. Thank you very much everybody. Okay, we're gonna move now into the bylaws counselor alt

1:53:15Would you mind moving those for us?

1:53:17Thank you

1:53:19It will come up on the screen there for you

1:53:24There you go

1:53:34Moved by alt seconded by Richardson that bylaws 2025

1:53:3820 21

1:53:40153

1:53:4121 161

1:53:4321 163 be approved subject to section

1:53:47284.11 bracket four of the municipal act

1:53:52Okay, thank you, and we'll make sure we do a double l for counselor alt there next time on the screen

1:53:57Uh, is there any questions on those anybody? I'm not supporting those. Yeah, that's right

1:54:05All right, I'll call the votes anyone against

1:54:09Okay, no one thank you and uh, that passes now everybody just hold on for a sec because first of all, there's no announcements or anything

1:54:18So we are about to now move into a closed session

1:54:22Um for the closed session items

1:54:24However, we're also going to take a quick break for a bite right now

1:54:29That's fair at the same time. So just for anybody like in the public or anyone watching online and things like that

1:54:35I think what we're going to do is we're going to move the motions to move into closed right now and get that

1:54:40I've conferred with the clerk. This is the best process to do

1:54:43However, we will have a break for dinner and and you know my colleagues at home can get grab a bite and then we will move into closed

1:54:51So right now it's a 547. I would suggest that we uh meet in

1:54:57closed from my

1:54:59council my council colleagues online

1:55:01at

1:55:02615

1:55:04Okay, so that way, you know kind of went to went to actually load on to to online

1:55:09Um with that though the authority to move into closed session vote

1:55:14Would be on two items the status update on downtown land

1:55:18Disposition Baker street redevelopment that's under section 239 to see of the municipal act regarding a proposed or pending acquisition

1:55:26or disposition of land by the municipality or local board

1:55:30And the second one is potential municipal boundary expansion

1:55:34section 239

1:55:352f and k of the municipal act regarding advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege

1:55:41Including communications necessary for that purpose and a position plan procedure criteria or instruction

1:55:48To be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the municipality or local board

1:55:55Um, may I have someone move uh galler and alt with two else? We'll second that and uh, I'll call the vote then on that to move into closed

1:56:05Is anyone against?

1:56:08No, okay, so uh clerks you're good then with all of that. Okay, so we will have uh

1:56:15A break, but then we will move into closed at 615 sharp

1:56:20And then for anyone interested I still will come back out

1:56:23We will come back out to do the high level summary and the adjournment of the in the open session when we're done

1:56:29Okay, thank you very much everyone

3:33:16All right, everybody. I just like to give my uh

3:33:19Close meeting summary we went into closed session on two issues

3:33:24status update on downtown land disposition

3:33:27Baker district redevelopment we gave direction on that matter

3:33:31And on the other one potential municipal boundary expansion

3:33:34There was uh, no direction only information received

3:33:39And so with that that's my summary and I'm looking for an adjournment

3:33:42Which councillor billings is willing to do and councillor caton is willing to second

3:33:46I will call the vote is anyone against adjournment

3:33:50No one that passes unanimously. Have a great night everybody. Thank you so much

3:35:10Good night, leon

3:35:12Leanne, could you please recite in Flanders fields for us?