Private Tree Protection By-law be amended such that the definition of a Regulated Tree includes any tree greater than 10 centimetres in diameter at breast height…

19:03Okay

19:05We are now moving into the items for discussion and the first one is the private tree

19:10protection bylaw update

19:12And only one delegation jonathan harris is here

19:16in uh in person jonathan come on down

19:28And thank you very much for joining us

19:31And uh

19:33So you have five up to five minutes if you need it you'll hear a chime in the room at the four minutes thirty second mark

19:40Uh, and that's like a warning that you only have 30 seconds left

19:45And then the microphone is turned off at five minutes

19:47So so don't don't let it get there and then after you're done if there's any questions

19:51Just hang around in case myself or my colleagues have any questions for you. Okay other than that the timer starts right now and go right ahead

19:57Well, good evening everyone. Thank you very much for including me inviting me in today's discussion

20:02My name is jonathan harris. I am isa certified arborist with a variety of credentials

20:07That work with the ministry of natural resources and forestry's and multiple municipalities from winsor to laxamol jacob jordan kebek

20:16First of all, I would like to take the time to thank the city for having me here as well as to me a filer lea lefler and the committee that

20:23Is proposing updating this outdated tree bylaw

20:27It's something that's passed over due in my opinion and I wholeheartedly agree that our trees need

20:32Further protection to reach a certain canopy size and goal

20:36The original recommendation for the protection of trees up to 50 centimeters by

20:41To me as said at the previous meeting to me made

20:44Justification and made sense

20:47Where I think the bylaw change falters is in two areas and I'll describe them here

20:53I think that regulating the trees

20:5630 centimeters and up as I saw in last meeting

20:59um in the bylaw

21:01What we saw in guelph's private tree protection key issues options report on january 24th

21:07Page six it states that most of guelph's trees are relatively small and under 30 centimeters

21:13What that means is that according to the graph on page six 93 percent of the trees aren't even covered

21:19That's only seven percent that you're looking at covering

21:22Of course, it doesn't include newly planted trees as well as it also does not include

21:28um

21:31Trees that homeowners are planting and that are you're unaware of

21:34um

21:37However, there's a way I believe to make this uh money stretch further is if if you stuck to the original 50 centimeter

21:45bylaw the recommendation by

21:48To me up. I think that there's a critical oversight that we haven't even looked at here

21:52Where is the tree canopy conservation program?

21:55There is nowhere in the bylaw or the recommendations did I that I saw correct me if I'm wrong

22:01Do I see anywhere in a conservation program that is going to?

22:05Help the community and help the people see the vision of getting trees planted on private property and increasing the canopy size

22:14uh

22:15It is important with this goal

22:17Like the city of london has to defer the removal of large trees

22:22To the latest aid possible while allowing for secession planning to catch up

22:26A program like this is an incentive base that offers

22:30rebates to property owners to help them care for trees on their properties. We are seeing this in many modern

22:36municipalities oakville berlington

22:41Uh ramped in london water lou is looking at doing this as well and this is something that's not even touched uh from what I see

22:48This would help people

22:50understand about the programs

22:52That include types of indicated

22:54Integrated pest management

22:55Cabling bracing and fertilizing programs that help benefit and get these small trees to a larger size that then can be covered by the tree bylaw

23:07I believe the amount of money spent changing the regulated trees from 50 down to 30 cent every tree's could be used for these rebates or better allocated

23:14That's simply put that this expenditure is missing

23:19active engagement with the community

23:22We all know the trees are facing many struggles including the diseases and insects that are listed on the city of guelph's website

23:28This is evident from widespread destruction of the ash trees due to the emerald ash borer which the guelph was greatly impacted

23:34Guelph's canopy, I believe was in and around the 32 percent or 33 percent

23:40before uh, the emerald ash borer struck in 2003 in michigan

23:44And now from what I believe in the reports, uh given to us your canopy is only at 26 percent

23:49It is not the private homeowner that's removing these trees

23:52It was a large devastation and without the private homeowner coming in and helping the city reach the initiatives

23:59I don't believe

24:01That the compensation in lew

24:03Will be help plant trees on private property

24:08If guelph had such a program in place before the devastation took place with the emerald ash borer might have saved thousands more trees

24:16There are several diseases and insects that are making the way here that will greatly impact our trees

24:20And if the people can't afford to maintain and keep their trees healthy

24:24They will simply fall under the exemption

24:27Of the bylaw

24:28And have to be removed anyway

24:31The rebate program, uh is a great program and I hope you would consider it

24:35From viewing the public comments and concerns online. There's a bit of distrust for what the city is reaching into

24:41The private bylaw and taking conservation over these regulated trees. I believe that if you include

24:47a preservation plan and a canopy conservation program that you would further

24:53Rout the reach get the outreach and the community would see this more as a tree bylaw

24:58Not just the opportunity

25:07Thank you. I could tell you on your last sentence. So good timing. Thank you

25:11Thank you very much for your delegation. Is there any questions at all for the delegate at this time?

25:16Okay, councillor gore

25:18Thank you and through your worship. Thank you so much for your presentation. Miss Harris

25:22Could you tell me what would this preservation plan or or the the conservation program look like?

25:29You mentioned that there was one in the city of london, but you know this bylaw is before us

25:33So we have to make a vote. I don't have time to go on and look up

25:36Will you be able to tell us a little bit of like specifically what you would ask the city to do?

25:40Yes, so this uh, so generally money taken in the budget by cash and lou from

25:45Uh, healthy trees that are being removed could then be used towards the canopy conservation program

25:53or money that was supposed to be used from the

25:55Uh increase in going from 50 to 30 centimeters

25:59could be used towards

26:02Generous rebates so rebates could be some cities have 250 dollars. Some cities have a thousand dollars

26:08that would be up to to me and the

26:11people who did the report to do

26:14A cost analysis basis, but this level of education in our long term residents is going to build

26:21Uh preservation on top of that they would be able to get data

26:24From the individual homeowner and what trees are there?

26:27What's uh, what's coming and how to protect us from things like oak wilt?

26:32Uh for the beach bark disease and from other pathogens like

26:35Nectaria canker and fungus that are coming and destroying our canopies

26:39As well as the poor soil content of gualf. I mean I really could go on but

26:42I'll probably stop there. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you worship

26:47Thank you and councillor Chew as well, please

26:50Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you for your delegation

26:53So I just want to get it straight. You're an arborist

26:56And you're telling us that if we go to 30 right away before we have this program and it's by-law

27:03Put into place. It may it's just too fast. I think it's too fast. It creates public

27:09Uh distrust as well as it's going to stop the the public from planting trees on private by-law because they're going to say

27:16Well, I why am I going to do this if my trees don't mind you have to ease into it a bit

27:20You have to create awareness

27:21You also have to show them that you're not just doing this as a punishment to them for cash and lube because that's what a lot of

27:29the public do see

27:31okay, and another question so

27:34The whole reason why we're having this conversation to begin with is because

27:38Uh, there's a rat. There's an argument out there that if we

27:42Uh increase the threshold across the city, it'll cover more of the canopy

27:52So we have less

27:54individual homeowners and landowners that are that would be covered under this by-law

28:00How would we go? How would someone like yourself like with a private consultant go about the education?

28:06to

28:07Kind of make sure people know. Hey, we have a by-law

28:10and

28:11We may move forward towards something

28:14More prescriptive in the future

28:16Excellent question and thank you. So the incentivization for uh

28:21Education and for maintaining healthy trees. What is coming with pathogens disease and our environment and climate change is clearly

28:29Needs to be managed and I believe that

28:32Without managing the trees you have you're going to lose them anyways to these diseases and you're also going to lose track of the canopy

28:38That's here. So a healthy tree only has is defense is its vitality and once his vitality goes a variety of factors from

28:46pests pathogens disease fungus

28:49Many things lead to tree more decline in mortality

28:52So education is key and if you can teach and incentivize and ease your way into the program

28:57You can have more of the public on board

28:59and starting with the youth and with uh

29:02some of the

29:04Long-term residents of guelph help educate them

29:08That also gets somebody on their property to let them know about the trees to make them aware because

29:12People just aren't aware and one of the biggest confusions misinformation. You go to google something

29:16How do you know one thing is true versus one other thing? Everything is opinion-based

29:20But if you have a consultant or somebody come out or if it's from the city website from the truth

29:25Then you can help educate these people and you can help reach your canopy goal

29:29otherwise

29:30I believe that uh through studies and through what we've seen and through conversations with the international society of

29:36Boraculture Ontario chapter. We're seeing a lot of decline because of mismanagement

29:41Okay, and I have another question. Sure. So

29:45Theoretically if this by-law were to be in place without any um changes tonight

29:53People would be more dependent on calling you and your services to be able to cut down a tree

29:59That so that would be more in your

30:01Benefit and you'd be the one to go about the knowledge translation to educate people

30:08However, you're telling us that if we go 30 it's going to actually be

30:14It might not be in your favor as a consultant because

30:19it's just

30:20harder to do the work of

30:23showing people that

30:26So, yeah, basically it's just for you it's

30:30You think it's harder to talk to educate people about what we're doing if we go 30 right away

30:36You're creating a stigma that's making people not want to plant trees number one, right?

30:41And it's not about what's good for me or in business or not

30:44I've not brought any of my business into this aspect. This is about what's good for wealth

30:49For the people of wealth for the community and the trees that live in it

30:52Ethics is higher than than business or standards

30:55Okay, and you're trying to protect the reputation of your services

30:59as well

31:00If you can keep a customer if you can keep a tree you can keep a client. Okay. Yeah, sure. I appreciate that. Thank you

31:08Thank you downer and then karan

31:11Thank you through you mr. Mayor. So just a quick look at london's so that let me understand

31:17So there's his 40 centimeters

31:21But their program so the conservation program

31:24and sort of quick me if I understand is

31:27is to

31:31Take better care of the trees through the management that we have so you you have to hire qualified arborists like yourself

31:38In in london to do what it says pest management

31:43pruning

31:45Cable embracing I have a cable dope in my yard. I understand

31:49Um

31:51And so you so that's the type of program you're talking about and it differs the cutting down of

31:57Not just myself. There's many good professionals and companies in the area. Yeah

32:01Yeah, no, no, I'm not just saying you but arborists. Yes, qualify. Yeah, yeah, qualify

32:10So that's the kind of program that you're thinking that we should be looking at and so that the funds that we collect for

32:16replacements should go to

32:18Um

32:20grants or subsidizing

32:23Residents and I think it's a critical oversight to not even look at uh canopy management management

32:27So it's kind of like well, it's got a tree trust program now, right? Yes. My wife's on the board

32:32Yeah, right. So that's kind of I know they pick a tree every or a couple of trees every year that that

32:38Um, I know they did one in the wood lawn cemetery once and I think at the crey school

32:43They've looked after some and help cable. Okay. So that's the kind of thing that you're talking about

32:48Is the city got on board with that the the public would show greater interest

32:51Absolutely and preserving the tree rather than cutting it down. Yes taking care of better taking care and having healthy trees

32:58before these pathogens and disease

33:00Decline the vitality which leads to

33:03Any number of the exemptions on the current and proposed bylaw

33:08Okay

33:10Coran, please

33:12Thank you through you mr. Jamer

33:14Thank you for your delegation and I don't disagree that more education and more understanding of why we're doing this the importance of canopy for

33:21Not just climate action, but stormwater resilience and all the great things that you spoke about

33:27but you did make a

33:29Correlation between this bylaw and at 30 centimeters and people planting less trees

33:35And yet I wonder if

33:38We're the evidence of that is because in mississauga and oakville

33:43Tree planting is is quite their successful program on private lots and their bylaws 15 centimeters

33:50dbh

33:51in toronto

33:52At 30 centimeters. We don't see a reduction. I don't see a correlating reduction

33:57Based on what your diameter

34:00In the bylaw is and the number of trees being planted by private homeowner

34:04So I wonder if you had any data behind that statement successful successful plantings

34:09So yes, it's the data that comes out is they're planting trees, but is there any follow-up visits? Is there any watering?

34:15uh, it would be

34:17Prudent to take a look at the data if uh any of the urban planners had of the amount of trees that are being replanted

34:23So costs that are being wasted on that

34:26So yes, they may be planting trees. They could plant two trees in one location. Sure. Okay. Um, yeah

34:32I see where you're talking about maintenance and and information and education is important

34:37I'm trying to understand how that correlates to the 30 centimeters

34:41In the bylaw. Oh public interest public trust

34:46easing into a bylaw you can always tighten it absolutely

34:49But if people are afraid of it, they're not going to partake in it and if they don't have the right information

34:55they're likely to

34:57Not investigate

34:58Yeah, through talks that we've had at the international society of war culture in Windsor

35:03um, I met with delegates and people speaking on the board for toronto as well as mississauga and uh,

35:09John hennessey at the city of berlington and we had conversations

35:12So that's where some of my information is coming from because we know this has been coming for two years

35:16And it's a great program what they've started. I think we need something that's robust

35:20That's gonna last if you want to have it for another 15 years or if you want to make it so it's tear upgradeable

35:26not just

35:27We need to do it now

35:28We need to do it right because the right tree should have a 50 year plan for the city

35:33Not a not a two-year plan and replant

35:35In my opinion

35:39Okay, well, thank you very much. We appreciate your uh your delegation and your information. Thank you

35:46Oh, I'm so sorry. Just wait a second jonathan. I didn't see counselor billings hand. Thank you council boost until

35:51I have another question from counselor billings

35:54So real quick through your worship. So I think there's also another amendment to change it to 40 centimeters. So with all your

36:02knowledge and experience

36:04You are saying you do support the 50 centimeters, but I do but no lower

36:11I don't think it's a good idea. I based on the data and I really trust to me and where uh

36:17Her her input. She's been somebody that I've I've known through

36:21Work relations for many years. They put a lot of work into this. They made a recommendation. They did not do it lightly

36:27Okay, thank you. Yeah

36:30Okay, thank you very much. Uh, sorry one more look around

36:34For real this time. I don't see anybody. Thank you. Okay. Thanks a lot jonathan. Thank you very much

36:42Okay, um

36:45Let's see here. We have recommendations

36:48That are ahead of us. Yep. Um, and so like hey, why don't we just why don't we at least put the recommendations?

36:54Flowing from committee on the floor if we if we want to amend refer change whatever we can go after that

37:01But let's put them on the floor uh downer and goer. Okay, so it's on the floor and then I'll start with uh with downer questions

37:09So a question uh through mr. Mayor to staff just I want to hear your comments on the tree canopy conservation program

37:16I'm sure you've looked at the ones um

37:19from london

37:21And I like it I I see it sort of like the tree trust program that sort of but it's only dealing with some trees

37:27And it doesn't help private owners who have big trees mature trees that need to be taken care of

37:33So what are your

37:36Any thoughts on that

37:38Through you may I got three um

37:40It is on our long-term

37:43plan

37:43so it's part of the vision of the ufmp to

37:47carry out proactive maintenance on the canopy in general and

37:51The private property is definitely part of that. We look at the urban forest as a holistic

37:56Uh unit and it would be considered part of that

37:59It's not in the short-term plan, but it's in the longer-term plan potentially in the fourth phase of the ufmp

38:05so the urban forest management plan um that

38:09So you're saying it's in the fourth stage. So that's

38:12We had trouble getting the first stage down within the timeline

38:16Do not due to staff, but I mean budgeting and whatnot

38:20um, so like I like that sounds to me like it's 20 years out like so

38:29So

38:31So it's something that we're in alignment with something we'd like to see and and do you see any benefit now that we're

38:40They're regardless of whether we do 30 40 or 50 tonight. Is there any benefit in?

38:46Looking at that now in at some time in the near future in conjunction with the fees that we would be getting so some would be planting

38:54But some would be also conservation of the

38:58urban forest

39:00Yeah through you mayor gut three that's something we can definitely take away for consideration

39:05Okay, and when you think short-term

39:08Does that mean like two years like or like I just

39:11Have within five probably within the next five years again, there's we have our work plan and we're just updating the ufmp right now

39:20Um, just internally we're working on that and so we are working on our own

39:25proactive

39:27maintenance protocols like our own operations for city-owned trees as well and so it could be

39:33Combined with those conversations

39:35So when is this updated the urban forest management plan coming back to council as far as I know if

39:44Timing goes right. We were looking at

39:48Fall early winter

39:50So could we would it be if we wished it could council move a motion to have the tree panic canopy

39:59conservation program

40:01Identified in this current update to be in the short term

40:06So through the mayor to council, I don't like five years, but anyway

40:11Right and again, we're all starting from a good place here. We want a healthy canopy. So as to me and mentioned

40:16Was something like our urban forest an urban forest management plan the work plan continually evolves right depending on a variety of factors

40:23Including elements invasive species as we heard that may not be immediately on our on our work plan our focus

40:31Recently has been getting caught up on historical work orders as council is aware

40:36That's another factor that makes us look at our work plan

40:38Let us take back this for consideration and get back to council to see what we can do to prioritize other works

40:45To to move this up

40:47We'd want to consider things like our one canopy tree planting strategy which just came to council

40:52And we're looking at again using funds to identify planting priorities across the city. So

40:59In the moment, we just don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves and to commit to something because it could have impacts on other

41:04Bodies of work in the plan that we need to and want to engage. So in short order

41:10We can report back to council with a clearer

41:12Timeline as to when we may may be able to engage hearing that

41:17You know five years and beyond is not something that may be acceptable to council with this specific program

41:23So so with the motion tonight, so I just privately correspond with you now about a motion to bring forward tonight

41:29That would bring this back in the short term

41:32Um

41:35It and tied it tie it tied to the budget and the updated urban forest management plan

41:42Pardon a memo in the budget. I need some help with it

41:49Then that's what would be included and I know I know we're doing

41:52Like a lot of stuff around planting like I know there's programs now and planting on private property

41:57I think those are all great, but I do

42:00I do understand the point that there's no

42:0450 year plan for these trees that we're planting right so

42:08I think that that's sort of we we're we're getting we're doing a lot that way, but how do we look after how do we ensure that

42:16People have the resources or to look after the trees once they've been planted or once they start getting mature

42:22And how they're not interfered with by other activity on the property

42:26Um

42:29I think sort of and to me that gets to the issue that I raised at I've been raising like how

42:35When we do when there's construction happen, even when um developers want to retain trees

42:40We don't have any bylaws that that help us help them

42:45That guide like like around how not having heavy equipment sitting on the roots and things like that

42:51How do we you know work towards conservation with the development industry as well?

42:57So, um, I'd like to see a motion so I might have some quick

43:03Of course blinded with you while others ask questions

43:07Thanks, uh golller and then chew

43:10I see you as well alt thank you

43:12Thank you through your worship

43:15To staff just filling up on the on the some of the points raised by uh by mr. Harris

43:22In terms of the information that is available to to the public about this

43:27Could you help me understand?

43:30At what point are we doing a mapping of of the trees so that we know for sure the trees that exist in

43:37Private properties is that something that we have now an accurate mapping of the trees that are outside the city on private lots

43:44or

43:46So through me erga three, um, we don't have individual trees mapped and that's not something that's feasible at all

43:52What we have is the canopy mapped in terms of the spread across the the city itself

43:59um, there may be um

44:01An instance where we may inventory a single tree if somebody comes in for an exemption or

44:07a violation for uh

44:09Under the tree bylaw, but otherwise

44:12inventorying individual trees on private property

44:16Is infeasible. Um, another exception might be through

44:20Different types of applications where they provide tree plans and such but again, they wouldn't be mapped publicly those are

44:28internal

44:30Documents that we we review as part of applications and such okay, okay, so so whether it is 30 40 or 50

44:37centimeters that we're protecting we still rely on that

44:41Property owner to self report that those three success and that they're asking a permit for them, right?

44:47correct, um, we do have some data from the previous study where we could draw some correlation

44:54um based on the actual plot data for example and maybe in the future study in 2028 we could sort of build off of that and

45:04potentially

45:05Collect data that's a bit more meaningful in terms of the tree sizes

45:09So it's something again. We can look look at down the road when we do our next study. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank you worship

45:18Thank you

45:20to then alt

45:22Thank you through you mr. Mayor um

45:25Just sent you some I was just wondering if

45:28that

45:29tree conservation program rebate program

45:33We can just start to explore

45:36Newspalities and just have that be put in an info report at some point

45:41Like I think we just want to continue to have that conversation so we can massage this bylaw

45:47Towards more of an incentive program than just pure permitting. Is that something that?

45:52Would it be too burdensome for you guys to do?

45:57Through the mayor to councillor chou. We can take that away. Um to me and team do a very good job

46:03In being engaged with our partner municipalities

46:06On this topic. So that's not a stretch to stay informed in terms of reporting back to council

46:11It could may not be an information report could be an email

46:15To council to keep them

46:17Up to speed alt then boost it

46:28Thank you very much. Mayor deathly

46:30Three years staff staff. It's a very simple question, but it does affect

46:35Um, my understanding of the bylaw a little bit. Um

46:41We've been talking about the girth of the trees

46:44That 30 centimeters up to 50 centimeters in the last little while

46:48What is the approximate age of the 30 centimeter tree versus a 50 centimeter tree?

46:55And i'm talking about hardwoods like maple or oak or whatever and I know that there's a variance on those but those are

47:01Those the girth of those trees is is pretty significant and that's why I want to know the age

47:09Through you mayor Guthrie. That's a very difficult question to answer

47:13um

47:15We don't have direct correlations

47:17Between diameter and tree age for gualph yet. It is on our to-do list

47:24Again as part of our next study

47:26That's something we're hoping to do because it would definitely give us some more insight into some of the things that we're talking about

47:33Generally again a 30 centimeter tree depending on species could be 30 years old

47:39But it could be 70 years old as well

47:41Depending on species even the site you could have two of the same species but growing in very different conditions

47:47So I would hesitate to um give you a direct correlation between the two

47:52Thank you. I appreciate your hand or on that

47:55But you actually did help me because I was thinking

47:5830 to 50 years of age are the trees that we're talking about

48:02And I think that is important

48:04In determining

48:06How we support this bylaw

48:10All right, busatil, please

48:12Thank you and through the mayor and thank you to mr. Harris

48:15For the delegation. Um, I have a question for staff. Mr. Harris talked about

48:21Private tree planting and you know the kind of follow-up to know whether or not the two trees that I planted on my private property

48:28And you know, I'm going to ask about take root and the great program and uptake right now of of the great tree planting

48:36And what kind of follow-up? I know with take root. There was the photo. Yes, I planted it

48:41Um, is there some kind of conversation with people who participated in that around the ongoing maintenance care and so on

48:49Or any kind of data from these programs as counsel putting aside

48:55You know money to do the private tree planting is this part of that longer term kind of investment

49:04So through you mayor Guthrie. Um, I can't see for certain other than the initial

49:10Planting of the the backyard tree. Um the backyard trees that there's any other monitoring

49:15That's something staff can follow up on and get back to you though. Um,

49:19Ideally there is longer term monitoring. So with the tree bylaw

49:24We do intend to have a warranty period for trees that are

49:28Replacement trees that are required. Um, it would be for a limited time

49:34For sure because the long term would not be ideal for a typical homeowner

49:38But there is a there is a warranty period built into that

49:43Thank you. Just a supplemental if I may through the mayor when the landscape

49:47Program that the city does do they include trees to say, you know, you can you can support this tree canopy by

49:55Watering more

49:56In this area or things like that. Does it include trees?

50:01Through mega three. I'm sorry. Can you clarify what you mean by the landscape program?

50:05Thank you the healthy landscape

50:08program

50:09Um, I'm sorry. I can't speak. I can't speak to that

50:16Through the mayor. I'm looking to miss holmes, but the healthy landscapes program is not something that the forestry department looks after

50:22So I don't think we have the people here tonight who could likely speak to that

50:26Thank you. My question was just whether or not the residential visits

50:31You know looking at my rain garden and everything else. Are they also looking at the ash trees that I have that are all

50:37Inoculated and and you know help up and going to have to come down eventually

50:41Do they look at trees as well? And are there some synergies there for public education and conversations?

50:48Through you may I got three the answer to that is yes

50:50we

50:51definitely

50:52Partner with the healthy landscapes program when it comes to

50:55Education and outreach and yes very specifically the emerald ash borer program

51:00And other types of programs whether it's the backyard tree planting the the tree giveaways and whatnot

51:05So the answer is an absolute yes

51:09Instead of synergies or should be center trees

51:13Do you like that?

51:15Okay

51:16All right, um counselor to

51:19I think you have advised us that you would like to move an amendment the original

51:25Motion is on the floor

51:27So I can turn it over to you

51:29um, just be aware of your speaking time. Okay, and uh, and

51:33I I would like to know in advance. I

51:36Do you have a seconder for this you do? Yeah

51:40counselor

51:41Gibson

51:42Okay, perfect. Go right ahead

51:45Okay, uh clerics would you be able to put it on the screen so we could all read it together because there's a lot of text here

51:51Um, I'm just gonna keep it short. I sent an email to everybody kind of outlining my intentions, but basically

51:58Through the consultant report through my conversations with staff. I just feel like

52:04Like personally I would love to support a private tree by-law. I think first we need to put it in place like our

52:10Our arborist friend had said and give us some time to mature and I think as well

52:15The initial intent of the original

52:18staff recommendation is so that we can ease

52:21this by-law and educate

52:24Some of our developer proponents and proponents to have larger land parcels first

52:29once we

52:31do that data analysis and process

52:34maturation with with with those people affected

52:39Then we can maybe look at tightening the by-law and I think there's opportunity as well to align this

52:45With a public with a public conversation on how we can incentivize people with rebates

52:50So it's not just a pure permitting process, but it's also a financially incentivizing

52:57piece of

52:58of work that the city is actively working with

53:03With people like our arborist friend and I think as well

53:07We have to understand that we have a culture here in Guelph

53:10Where people are very culturally responsible and

53:14And they like to steward their own properties

53:16And I just feel like we starting at with by starting at 30 and not building up that awareness

53:22It will alienate people

53:24Who want to do the right thing?

53:26but feel forced through compliance to have to

53:31to hire

53:32x y and z and pay

53:34x y and z fees

53:36and I just feel like

53:38We can get to that point where we are where

53:41We need to have more tightening. I think at some point in time. We're going to have to do that

53:45But I think right now, especially with our staff capacity and the historical work orders that they have

53:52Mentioned is on the table. We we should be respectful of that as a council and

53:58That's basically the long story short here

54:01If anyone has any questions

54:04To me or staff, I would be happy to take those questions

54:08Okay, thank you councillor Chew. Does anyone have any questions? Okay, uh councillor billings

54:14On the amendment, please

54:17Sure, because the amendment is 40 centimeters. So through you your worship to staff

54:22so

54:23When staff recommended the 50 centimeters, we knew we were going to run a deficit

54:28However, with the 40 actually

54:31When it at cow it went to 30 we received

54:34We received an email from staff and it talked about

54:38Even at the 30 work plans would have to change

54:41certain planning

54:42Applications wouldn't be processed in time. Of course, we would run out of larger deficit

54:47But what about with the 40? I was wondering could staff comment with respect to the

54:5240 centimeters

54:56Through you may or got three. Yes. Um previously we provided information to council

55:01um with the impact of the 40 centimeter trees

55:06With an estimated funding gap of about

55:08potentially again high level estimate of 16 000 more than the 50 centimeter. So approximately

55:16238 000 of a funding gap. Um

55:20It's it's about going from 4 percent of the tree population of 50 centimeters

55:25We estimated it would be about 8 percent or double the tree population

55:32And with the 40 centimeters with respect to work plans planning applications those issues that staff pointed out with the 30

55:40What about with the 40?

55:47Through you may I got three there will still be impacts. Um, we would have to again

55:52Go back and uh, look at what those would be but there will be impacts very similar to what we're talking about

56:01Okay, thank you. Thank you

56:05Uh Gibson and then alt

56:08Yeah, thank you three mr. Mayor. So when when I spoke to counselor two about this, um

56:14It just it there was a bunch of wins here like on on from somebody perspective like staff have clearly identified the impacts

56:21This would cause for them and to our budget to go as drastic as 30 right off the bat

56:26we've heard from members of the public today and um,

56:30And we all want to get we all want to get there. We all want to protect some some trees

56:35Protectries on private property where it's reasonable. So I saw the 40 as uh,

56:40As a great compromise. I appreciate counselor two bringing it forward. I think it's well thought out. I think it meets

56:47many of our objectives

56:50And uh, and I think it still is a sound is a sound document one that I hope we can be unanimous or

56:59Thank you. Uh, alt and galler

57:02Sorry, excuse me. Mayor Guthrie

57:05I have a bit of a cough. That's why I'm not there tonight

57:07Um, I was waiting for amendment number two could please be put back up on the screen. I have a question for staff

57:20Thank you. Um, uh through you mr. Mayor to the staff

57:24Amendment number two strikes me as being very very technical and as a consequence of that

57:31I was wondering if you could please comment on the deliverability of this by q3

57:382027

57:41Through the mayor to council. Um, much of this is work that staff already do

57:45We had a conversation with councillor Chew

57:49And pointed in this direction because again a lot of this is in our scope of work right now

57:53We may recommend though instead of this report

57:58Just this report may include just to make the intent of the motion accurately but again

58:09Much of this work is already being completed by staff

58:12Thank you very much. I appreciate that it wasn't clear to me. So in in some senses

58:18Uh, the motion is just a reiteration of what is being done. Is that correct?

58:24Through the mayor to uh councillor Allt correct. Thank you very much. Thank you galler than carot

58:34Uh, thank you worship just the comments on this

58:37um, I heard our our delegate present and

58:42Call for us to put in place

58:44Canopy conservation program

58:46What I see in this motion is not that it it would change the the trees that would be protected

58:52So we'd be protecting 8% of our trees as opposed to the 14%

58:57If we kept it at uh at the so with the motion as it is i'm not able to support it

59:04Okay, you can just just jump in

59:07Councillor downer has a motion

59:09Literally kind of speaking to that issue that's coming separately than this whether this amendment or the original passes or fails regardless

59:18That that that kind of a motion is coming separately. It wouldn't be included

59:22And everyone has it already. Okay, so I just want to make sure that people aren't

59:27Tying the two together when it would be a separate thing anyways, okay

59:31Uh, caron, please

59:33Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, I'd like to request a separation of the two clauses first of all

59:39Because I can obviously accept and and um

59:42Support clause two because it's work already being done and it also gives council data to go back and and do by-law reviews

59:49As which is always good practice for us to do

59:52um, I can't support clause one um because this

59:55Tree by law private tree by law has been well over a decade in the making which my my uh

1:00:02Ward mate knows full well

1:00:05We did a lot of public engagement and in fact on page 12 of the

1:00:10public engagement summary

1:00:12We see that 21 of respondents said less

1:00:16Or at least 10 centimeters in diameter and 39 percent said 20 centimeters for a total of 60 percent

1:00:24Looking for protecting tree diameters below 30 centimeters

1:00:28I think 30 centimeters for me was actually the the compromise

1:00:32um, we have a 40 percent canopy goal and we're just not getting there and this

1:00:38by-law is a step in helping us to get there because it is about preserving what we have

1:00:44Absolutely, we need to maintain our tree canopy and increase through plantings. Those are other mate matters

1:00:51and councillor downer's

1:00:54Future motion that's all about the next phases, but tonight we're just talking about what we're going to protect

1:01:01So I will be supporting the original and uh voting against the amendment

1:01:07Thank you. Happy to uh split that

1:01:10Okay, I'm trying to I'm trying to wrap this amendment up, but I'm now I'm circling and I'm going back to councillor Allt

1:01:17Thank you. Mr. Mary won't be circling. These are just my comments

1:01:20I cannot support clause number one

1:01:24um, the reason I asked staff my question was I wanted to really get an assessment of what maturity some of the trees would be that would potentially

1:01:33Not be protected by this by-law and like councillor Caron the 30 centimeters

1:01:39Would have to be my cutoff and I and I recognize that trees of various types grow at different speeds

1:01:46The cherry trees that I planted 12 years ago are probably only 10 centimeters. The oak trees grow very slowly

1:01:54But when we're getting to talk about trees that are 20 years to 50 years old

1:01:58I'm a bit concerned because we want to get them to to 100 years old and 100 years old in in reasonable time

1:02:06So consequently, I think that the 30 centimeters is a good cutoff

1:02:13Thank you

1:02:15Okay, uh

1:02:17So I I will be supporting the amendment

1:02:21Um, as I as everyone knows at the committee, I didn't support the 30 at all

1:02:26Um, I kind of wanted to go with what the staff recommendation was

1:02:30But I like to try to meet in the middle. So um, that's why I would support this amendment

1:02:35Um, I think it's important just to put on the public record. I'd like I'd like to have um, just some of the staff points that we all know now know about

1:02:42about what the impacts are

1:02:44to um

1:02:46To if we if we do pass the 30 if this if this one doesn't uh go

1:02:52So, um, actually technically procedurally, no, I will if this fails

1:02:57I will speak to this if the 30 centimeters remains. So I will stop myself

1:03:03Uh, so with that, I will just I will be supporting both, uh, both portions of this amendment

1:03:08Uh, and uh, I'll call the vote on number one, which is sort of the middle of the road the 40 centimeters

1:03:15So I'll call the vote on that right now as anyone against that one

1:03:19So goller and busatil

1:03:22and uh, Richardson downer coran

1:03:25and uh, gypsum

1:03:27I'm sorry, not gypsum. Sorry billings and alt and coran

1:03:32Okay

1:03:35K10, I'm sorry. I really need to wear my glasses. I'm very sorry k as well

1:03:40Clerks, are you okay with that? Did you capture it? Okay

1:03:43Through you miss mayor. We have that failing on a three to eight vote. Yep. Okay. Thank you

1:03:48And now I'll call the vote on number two as a standalone

1:03:52And is anyone against that?

1:03:56Okay, that's unanimous

1:03:58Okay, thank you very much

1:04:00So now we're back to the main motion gen as it stood. I'll go to yours after okay. Yeah

1:04:06Um, so we're going back to to that. Do I need to does anyone need to have a round on that one at all?

1:04:11Or are we good to go?

1:04:13Okay, coran and then billings

1:04:18I was anticipating that you were going to speak on the main motion related to

1:04:23Budget and then I was going to respond. Did you you indicated that you were going to speak to it after the motion passed?

1:04:30Yeah, but I'm just uh, that would be councillor downers motion

1:04:33And I'm not to that one yet. I because the amendment to the main motion failed

1:04:37I'm just now calling the vote on the main motion

1:04:39Which is what flowed from committee to hear the 30 centimeters and all that kind of stuff

1:04:43Sorry, did I see another hand come up on this one?

1:04:46Okay, billings

1:04:49Yes, sorry through you through you mr. Mer

1:04:52um, okay, so with the bylaw. I mean it was supposed to be um

1:04:58A bylaw that's not onerous. It's affordable

1:05:01So even at the info sessions

1:05:03I I still have a problem and that's the two things

1:05:08Which actually won't be

1:05:11um

1:05:12modified amended until

1:05:14after the bylaws passed

1:05:16and and into the tree manual and that is

1:05:20the width

1:05:22for in centimeters for the replacement trees

1:05:25And also the timing for the return of the period positive

1:05:29So with respect to the replacement trees

1:05:32It was mentioned in the info session and I think how it was going to be six centimeters

1:05:38However, when a city the city replaces a tree on someone's front yard because it was death whether it was a city-owned tree

1:05:45Or a shared tree it comes in around four centimeters and a pot

1:05:50And and it gets planted the six centimeters does not come in a pot and it's

1:05:57More expensive, but also it needs equipment. So again, there's now another cost to the homeowner

1:06:05So I was just wondering if staff

1:06:09Through you your worship

1:06:10Could respond to the six centimeters and why we couldn't have it at the four and a half just like the city uses

1:06:18um to replace their trees

1:06:23Through you mayor gut three. Um, thank you for your question. Um

1:06:26At this time, I know we've discussed this

1:06:29Previously, but at this time we're going to maintain the standard replacement tree as a six centimeter tree

1:06:37But when we come to updating reviewing and updating the tree technical manual, we will take into consideration

1:06:46The flexibility in sizing or alternate

1:06:50tree replacement sizes

1:06:52And just for information the tree technical manual currently does say that smaller trees are

1:07:00acceptable as an option as long as the

1:07:04as long as the

1:07:06Intent is there again, you can replace two smaller trees for one larger tree and whatnot. So there is some flexibility

1:07:13built in

1:07:15Okay, thank you. Also one last question through your worship. So, um

1:07:21Some counselors have have mentioned and quoted. Oh, but vancouver's doing this in toronto and and they have

1:07:2720 centimeters or 30 centimeters. So I wanted to ask to me, um, the other municipalities that have

1:07:35uh, those centimeters, do they not have I'll call it like a tree department

1:07:41where you've got tree bylaw enforcement officers and and um supervisors like an actual department

1:07:52Through you mayor gut three. Yes, that is true. So again, I can only just off the top of my head think of two specific examples

1:07:59toronto and hamilton

1:08:04have separate tree bylaw departments with

1:08:07uh, supervisory staff

1:08:09overseeing a department of multiple

1:08:12uh, tree inspectors and some of them even have their own

1:08:16uh, tree bylaw inspectors whereas we have a bylaw department and a

1:08:21Forestry department. So we're not set up

1:08:24similar to some of those municipalities

1:08:27So if council decides through your worship to approve the 30 centimeters

1:08:32So then for the 2026 budget confirmation process

1:08:37Then staff would be bringing back yet again another increase to the budget

1:08:46Through the mayor to council, correct. We've been clear through the process that should we move away

1:08:50From staff recommendation

1:08:52There would be increased budget demands and even as we discussed with the current

1:08:56staff recommendation from staff there would be a budget ask, right?

1:09:01But with 30 centimeters just much more

1:09:05Through mayor to council, correct. Thank you

1:09:10All right, thanks. I'd like to try to just wrap this up and and and go ahead and vote on the the main motion

1:09:15as it stood

1:09:16So I won't be supporting this and i'm going to give the reasons why as uh outlined by staff just want to just want it out loud

1:09:25um

1:09:26Moving from 50 to 30 centimeters will result in the bylaw applying

1:09:31But have impacts on city finances staff resourcing and property owners and development costs

1:09:37The amendment poses resourcing challenges for several departments, particularly parks planning bylaw and legal services

1:09:44And this may affect staff's ability to manage existing workloads

1:09:48The proposed amendment to the bylaw will require an increase to the annual operating budgets for parks

1:09:53This represents a 0.4 percent tax levy increase that will now need to be reflected in the 2026 budget

1:10:01Additionally planning will incur a shortfall of an estimated 3.5 weeks of work annually for an existing position

1:10:07And it is anticipated that the increased volume at the committee of the

1:10:11committee of adjustments applications would now uh apply

1:10:15This is anticipated to impact overall review timelines for our planning act applications

1:10:20Bylaw will be impacted

1:10:22Additional support from legal services may now be required

1:10:25In addition to the direct and indirect costs the city's proposed amended bylaw will have economic and timeline impacts on residents

1:10:33and developers

1:10:34The proposed amendment put forward at the committee the whole has the potential to impose

1:10:39additional requirements and costs for smaller residential projects that are not currently subject to the bylaw

1:10:47These costs include arborist services for producing now tree plans

1:10:51Financial securities for cash and lew more properties undertaking smaller scale projects such as

1:10:57construction for ad use or other building additions to their properties

1:11:01The amendment is also anticipated to extend project timelines

1:11:07Potentially beyond the legislated 10 business day turnaround time for building permits

1:11:14So this may impact overall timelines for all construction activities

1:11:18For those reasons I cannot support this

1:11:21I can stay at the 50 which was already a good thing which was already a positive thing that came from staff

1:11:28It already came with some outlined costs, but I cannot move to what what what council is now considering

1:11:36Uh, respectfully, I think these impacts are way too great for our community

1:11:40And so um, I respect of course council is a different opinion and position

1:11:44But for that reason, I will not be supporting. Uh, what's on the screen today

1:11:52Downer and correct excuse me downer than karan

1:11:56Thanks, sir. Mr. Mayor. So I just I just want to confirm with staff you on

1:12:00March 27th, you sent me what and we shared with all of council

1:12:05The difference between the 50 and the 30 from a funding gap

1:12:09So the estimated funding gap with a 50 centimeter tree was 222,000

1:12:14The current uh with the 30 centimeter it was 261,000

1:12:17So a 40 000 difference between the 50 and the 30 centimeter a year

1:12:23Correct

1:12:24Great

1:12:25also the um, estimated fte gap one for uh, 50 centimeters. It was 1.6

1:12:33And for 30 centimeters, it was 1.9

1:12:36So not even half right and have t correct

1:12:40Also the estimated proportion of regulated tree population on private property that would be protected is on the 50 percent

1:12:4850 centimeters was 4

1:12:50And the and under 30 uh, 30 centimeters was 14 percent correct

1:12:56Correct, okay

1:12:58um

1:12:59So and you also indicated that it would rank slightly higher than the others due to the number of trees captured

1:13:06But it would rank lower just to the cost to the city. So that 40 000

1:13:11Correct, correct. Okay. So that's the information we received that I shared with all of council

1:13:17And when you think of in the report it talks to

1:13:20multi multi millions of dollars

1:13:22In infrastructure that trees provide

1:13:26In the terms of runoff flooding and all those things for um, all of us. I think that 40 000 and that

1:13:33one third of an fte

1:13:35Is uh, I understand there are other implications

1:13:38But I think that is certainly worth it and I still will be moving motion around a tree conservation plan

1:13:45And thank you and karan, please. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. And I appreciate, you know, fiscal

1:13:50Responsibility is part of our jobs and I I know that you take that very seriously

1:13:54But the one thing we do a lot is we talk about the cost and we don't talk about the return on investment

1:13:59And there is lots of data on the return of investment everything from extreme heat water scarcity

1:14:05biological hazards degraded ecosystems

1:14:10Health and well-being clean air and we have city of toronto data along with a td bank who run tree planting programs

1:14:18um, that found that even with with a 30 centimeter

1:14:22bylaw

1:14:23The return on investment works out to about 125 dollars of savings per annum per household

1:14:32Or about eight dollars per tree for those additional benefits to the municipality

1:14:37And I think that when you when you put it into those terms we actually come out ahead

1:14:42So I will be supporting this wholeheartedly and and I hope that that return on investment could be factored in

1:14:49to any budget deliberations or any

1:14:52consideration and and data that you're using

1:14:55Mr. Mayor when you're contemplating

1:14:58The the cost impacts in in the mayor's budget process. Thanks. Yes, of course. Thank you

1:15:03Uh and councillor Chew, please

1:15:10Okay, um through you mr. Mayor

1:15:12Um to staff could you share with the the funding for

1:15:17From four to eight percent just so I remember

1:15:24Through you may I got three sorry. Can you see that like one more time? Sorry. So if we went from 50 to 40

1:15:31diameter

1:15:3316 000

1:15:36That would be the difference, right? Yes. Okay, and can you kind of share with me too? How are you would

1:15:43You're gonna have to rearrange your

1:15:46historical work orders in light of us moving to 30

1:15:52To kind of prioritize this work. Can you share a little bit of that?

1:15:56Through the mayor to councillor Chew

1:15:58As we noted on april 1st that is work that we're going to have to do so staff provided a recommendation

1:16:04on the 50 centimeters

1:16:06With a note to budget

1:16:09Based around being able to continue

1:16:11The workload that we have right now

1:16:14As we move away from that staff recommendation staff are going to need some time to to to find out where we're going to land

1:16:20If it's going to be 30 centimeters or 40 centimeters, there's a difference there for staff as we're hearing

1:16:26That will impact our workload

1:16:28What that will look like, um, you know to mia as an example

1:16:32Her role is responsible for the administration of this bylaw to me is role also handles third party contracts

1:16:39That is the kind of thing the third party contracts that may come off the list

1:16:43That will look like, um slower operational works in the field. Um, and again, we've made significant gains as you know

1:16:51In catching up to those historical workloads

1:16:53That's an example of how we're going to see this and respectfully

1:16:57Staff needs some time to evaluate that once we've landed

1:17:01On the dbh

1:17:04So just to be clear

1:17:06Inevitably work is going to have to be dropped to reprioritize because of this

1:17:11shift in prioritization

1:17:13Through the um mayor to council unless we have resources at budget

1:17:17Okay

1:17:19Okay, I guess I just have a comment

1:17:22Like I like to me personally like i'm a like i'm trained as a landscape architect on the landscape designer at the moment

1:17:29I would love to support this wholeheartedly. I just feel like

1:17:34I don't want to repeat what's been said already, but I just feel like this is happening way too fast

1:17:39And we need to have a framework in place

1:17:41Surrounding the bylaw and I I felt like the 40 would have been a great compromise for everyone so that we're not painted against

1:17:49Not liking trees and and and liking trees because I feel like there's there's more complexity to this than that in order to

1:17:56Steward our tree canopy better

1:17:59So I just feel like I I can't support this

1:18:03But I do want to put on the record that I I absolutely

1:18:07At the support of a tree private tree bylaw as a framework in place, but I can't support it in this current form

1:18:14So I just need to make that clear for everyone. Okay. Thank you

1:18:18Wrap it up councillor ult. I want to call the vote. Thank you very much. Well, we'll have to wait till I'm done

1:18:25I'm

1:18:26Speaking as a grandfather and speaking during earth week. I think it is absolutely essential that we support this

1:18:33My colleagues made mention of the return on investment. I think that's very important

1:18:37When we consider riverways and erosions and the roles that trees play in that when we consider that we have a Guelph greener homes

1:18:45program where we are trying to encourage people to do the environmentally and environment and

1:18:51Ecologically correct things to do and where we pride our city on being a leader in the environment

1:18:57The simple thing that I can say is if London the forest city can do it

1:19:02Then Guelph can do it better and that's why I believe we owe it to generations to come

1:19:08To do this and recognize the return on investment not just for this budget, but for budgets to come is well worth it

1:19:16All right. Thank you

1:19:19All right, then just before I call the vote. Thank you for the opinions everybody

1:19:22This is why we got all elected to have different opinions. That's fine

1:19:26um, and uh

1:19:28I I am feeling no just a tad

1:19:31Just a little bit like it is what councillor chou said like either your four trees or you're against I don't like that feeling

1:19:38I don't like it

1:19:39I just feel a little vibe just a little vibe of that

1:19:42So I just want to say it out loud that

1:19:44The original recommendation from staff that I was going to support was wholesome changes and better protections

1:19:52And so I just want to make it very clear that any of the environmental type of discussions here

1:19:57I am behind them. I think where I feel very comfortable in my position today is because councillor chou's second amendment passed

1:20:06Which is the data the impacts that can come back within two years

1:20:10So

1:20:11All of the the laundry list of all the bullet points that I said about what I'm what I'm concerned about

1:20:16Especially the planning timeline legislative timelines

1:20:19um

1:20:20Maybe in two years that data comes back to us and it's like hey, it wasn't that bad, right?

1:20:24And I can be like, okay. I'm behind this. Let's let's let's go

1:20:27So I think I'm happy that I I didn't know you were bringing that forward councillor chou

1:20:30But I think that's really great that you did that so we can get that data

1:20:33Later on to see how the impacts of something like this is going to be it looks like it looks like passed

1:20:39Um, and so, you know, we could we could play the game a little bit here of like well

1:20:43If you really like trees then make an amendment for 20 centimeters or 15 centimeters

1:20:48Like you know, you could just keep going down and down and down. No councillor crown. Don't do it

1:20:51just kidding

1:20:52But like I just want to make sure that they're you know, uh, it kind of reminded me a little bit of uh

1:20:58Of the online voting thing before the end of the vote. It was like there's nobody here that's against democracy

1:21:03There's nobody here. Like everyone just has a different opinion on it

1:21:06Same thing with the tree thing right here, right? We're going to vote differently on it

1:21:08but we're all behind the environmental initiatives and uh, it's it's to me

1:21:13I just want to make sure that's very clear that we're not pointing fingers at each other and saying well

1:21:17I you know, I'm I'm better than you than on this. I just let's let's let's not go there

1:21:22Okay, uh with that I'll call the vote who is against the main motion as it stands

1:21:30Okay, chou and myself guthrie and gipson and billings

1:21:33Okay, so that passes. Thank you

1:21:36And thank you to staff by the way, I know there was a so much engagement and then uh, these changes in the last month

1:21:43You've done a really great job in informing us. So thank you very much

1:21:46Uh, to you councillor downer, you have this uh standalone one about kind of preservation plan and budget. So go right ahead

1:21:56So it's that staff uh report back on a canopy conservation plan in the short term in the updated

1:22:03urban forest management plan and that

1:22:06Man will be included in the draft

1:22:082026 budget update for further consideration

1:22:11by miragrath re and city council

1:22:14Thanks and gollar seconded that so that's perfect. Yeah, okay. Thank you

1:22:18Um

1:22:19Seems pretty straightforward to me. Can I call the can I call the vote nope councillor Goller?

1:22:24Uh briefly, I just wanted to thank the delegate for bringing this to our attention and letting us know that this is important

1:22:29That we need the conservation plan. So just thank you for being here. Thank you worship. Yeah, thank you

1:22:36Okay, and oh, sorry Gibson go ahead

1:22:38Yeah, um, it I don't think it's gonna affect my vote. I just wanted to know is something that staff are gonna be doing in house

1:22:43or is this going to be um

1:22:46Are we putting

1:22:48Are we adding costs to staff's work plan right now without understanding the cost of it?

1:22:54If it's an if it's an in-house in kind uh report, that's great, but

1:22:57Just like to know through the mayor to council in house

1:23:03Great. Thank you, sir

1:23:06All right, I'll call the vote is anyone against those two motions from councillor downer

1:23:12Unanimous, thank you very much

1:23:15All right, go plant a tree everybody protect trees. We're done. We're done that topic. All right. Thank you very much

1:23:22Okay, we're moving on to the last item