City Council

12:59All right, good evening everyone. It's just after six o'clock. I'm going to call the meeting to order for our council meeting

13:04It's Wednesday, April the 23rd

13:072025 and it's just after six and thank you very much for joining us for our council meeting

13:14Right off the top. I'm gonna ask if you could stand if you are able as we

13:19Recognize our national anthem. Thank you. Thank you. Just a moment of silent reflection as we continue great

15:18Thanks and for the territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on the privilege and our privilege to live and work

15:25Here in Guelph a city that is built over rich indigenous histories

15:28We're guests here and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land and the people who live here today and the generations to come

15:35If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

15:39We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

15:42This place called Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time

15:48But more specifically the Anahuan Rock and the Honan-Nashoni

15:52This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the mississaugas of the credit First Nation

15:56And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

16:04Many First Nations anyway and many people who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today

16:10Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature there of for the items that are on the agenda?

16:18No, okay. Thanks. Now I have official regrets

16:23auror

16:25And clausen

16:27And I think that's it. I think everyone else clerk's is saying yes. So

16:31there you are

16:34And

16:35I'm looking right off the top

16:37For confirmation of the minutes which were held on march 18th 19th and 25th 2025

16:44And the minutes of the open committee of the whole meeting held march 4th

16:482025 be confirmed and recorded as without being read

16:52Would someone like to help me out boost it till?

16:56And uh, sorry alt go. I'll

16:59Jump back and forth from the screen to the room. Thank you. Is there anything further on the minutes?

17:05Hearing none, I'll call the votes anyone against the minutes

17:10Hearing none that is passed unanimously. Thank you

17:13Uh, we have

17:16a larger

17:18Consent agenda here

17:20We have the debenture issue

17:23authority

17:24Would anyone like that pulled?

17:28No, okay

17:29And we have the municipal service and financing agreement policy now

17:34Just to be as a heads up. There was an additional memo that was attached from staff

17:40Because they wanted to clarify some things and embed that in the memo. It's all public

17:44Just want to make sure I get a verbal from everyone

17:48That uh, we're going to be moving the one with the memo. That's

17:52Yes

17:53No one's opposed to that. Just want to make sure okay

17:56Clerks, are you okay? Does that confirm for you? Okay, and we'll continue

18:00How about the results of the feasibility study on the potential future arts and culture uses of the drill hall?

18:08perfect

18:10and

18:13I'll just call the vote on that. Okay

18:15Gullard, are you good?

18:18Green

18:19Someone different on the screen

18:22Gipson

18:24I'll call the vote is anyone against

18:27Nobody thank you and then we have the uh

18:32The council consent agenda

18:34With the one item the grant agreement the funder reporting

18:38Requirement of the housing enabling water systems fund grant

18:43Thank you. Koran

18:46And gipson, okay

18:49And I'll call the vote on that. It would be very weird if people were against the grant, but good. Nobody's against the grant

18:59That's good. I think we all kind of want two million bucks

19:02So that's good

19:03Okay

19:05We are now moving into the items for discussion and the first one is the private tree

19:10protection bylaw update

19:12And only one delegation jonathan harris is here

19:16in uh in person jonathan come on down

19:28And thank you very much for joining us

19:31And uh

19:33So you have five up to five minutes if you need it you'll hear a chime in the room at the four minutes thirty second mark

19:40Uh, and that's like a warning that you only have 30 seconds left

19:45And then the microphone is turned off at five minutes

19:47So so don't don't let it get there and then after you're done if there's any questions

19:51Just hang around in case myself or my colleagues have any questions for you. Okay other than that the timer starts right now and go right ahead

19:57Well, good evening everyone. Thank you very much for including me inviting me in today's discussion

20:02My name is jonathan harris. I am isa certified arborist with a variety of credentials

20:07That work with the ministry of natural resources and forestry's and multiple municipalities from winsor to laxamol jacob jordan kebek

20:16First of all, I would like to take the time to thank the city for having me here as well as to me a filer lea lefler and the committee that

20:23Is proposing updating this outdated tree bylaw

20:27It's something that's passed over due in my opinion and I wholeheartedly agree that our trees need

20:32Further protection to reach a certain canopy size and goal

20:36The original recommendation for the protection of trees up to 50 centimeters by

20:41To me as said at the previous meeting to me made

20:44Justification and made sense

20:47Where I think the bylaw change falters is in two areas and I'll describe them here

20:53I think that regulating the trees

20:5630 centimeters and up as I saw in last meeting

20:59um in the bylaw

21:01What we saw in guelph's private tree protection key issues options report on january 24th

21:07Page six it states that most of guelph's trees are relatively small and under 30 centimeters

21:13What that means is that according to the graph on page six 93 percent of the trees aren't even covered

21:19That's only seven percent that you're looking at covering

21:22Of course, it doesn't include newly planted trees as well as it also does not include

21:28um

21:31Trees that homeowners are planting and that are you're unaware of

21:34um

21:37However, there's a way I believe to make this uh money stretch further is if if you stuck to the original 50 centimeter

21:45bylaw the recommendation by

21:48To me up. I think that there's a critical oversight that we haven't even looked at here

21:52Where is the tree canopy conservation program?

21:55There is nowhere in the bylaw or the recommendations did I that I saw correct me if I'm wrong

22:01Do I see anywhere in a conservation program that is going to?

22:05Help the community and help the people see the vision of getting trees planted on private property and increasing the canopy size

22:14uh

22:15It is important with this goal

22:17Like the city of london has to defer the removal of large trees

22:22To the latest aid possible while allowing for secession planning to catch up

22:26A program like this is an incentive base that offers

22:30rebates to property owners to help them care for trees on their properties. We are seeing this in many modern

22:36municipalities oakville berlington

22:41Uh ramped in london water lou is looking at doing this as well and this is something that's not even touched uh from what I see

22:48This would help people

22:50understand about the programs

22:52That include types of indicated

22:54Integrated pest management

22:55Cabling bracing and fertilizing programs that help benefit and get these small trees to a larger size that then can be covered by the tree bylaw

23:07I believe the amount of money spent changing the regulated trees from 50 down to 30 cent every tree's could be used for these rebates or better allocated

23:14That's simply put that this expenditure is missing

23:19active engagement with the community

23:22We all know the trees are facing many struggles including the diseases and insects that are listed on the city of guelph's website

23:28This is evident from widespread destruction of the ash trees due to the emerald ash borer which the guelph was greatly impacted

23:34Guelph's canopy, I believe was in and around the 32 percent or 33 percent

23:40before uh, the emerald ash borer struck in 2003 in michigan

23:44And now from what I believe in the reports, uh given to us your canopy is only at 26 percent

23:49It is not the private homeowner that's removing these trees

23:52It was a large devastation and without the private homeowner coming in and helping the city reach the initiatives

23:59I don't believe

24:01That the compensation in lew

24:03Will be help plant trees on private property

24:08If guelph had such a program in place before the devastation took place with the emerald ash borer might have saved thousands more trees

24:16There are several diseases and insects that are making the way here that will greatly impact our trees

24:20And if the people can't afford to maintain and keep their trees healthy

24:24They will simply fall under the exemption

24:27Of the bylaw

24:28And have to be removed anyway

24:31The rebate program, uh is a great program and I hope you would consider it

24:35From viewing the public comments and concerns online. There's a bit of distrust for what the city is reaching into

24:41The private bylaw and taking conservation over these regulated trees. I believe that if you include

24:47a preservation plan and a canopy conservation program that you would further

24:53Rout the reach get the outreach and the community would see this more as a tree bylaw

24:58Not just the opportunity

25:07Thank you. I could tell you on your last sentence. So good timing. Thank you

25:11Thank you very much for your delegation. Is there any questions at all for the delegate at this time?

25:16Okay, councillor gore

25:18Thank you and through your worship. Thank you so much for your presentation. Miss Harris

25:22Could you tell me what would this preservation plan or or the the conservation program look like?

25:29You mentioned that there was one in the city of london, but you know this bylaw is before us

25:33So we have to make a vote. I don't have time to go on and look up

25:36Will you be able to tell us a little bit of like specifically what you would ask the city to do?

25:40Yes, so this uh, so generally money taken in the budget by cash and lou from

25:45Uh, healthy trees that are being removed could then be used towards the canopy conservation program

25:53or money that was supposed to be used from the

25:55Uh increase in going from 50 to 30 centimeters

25:59could be used towards

26:02Generous rebates so rebates could be some cities have 250 dollars. Some cities have a thousand dollars

26:08that would be up to to me and the

26:11people who did the report to do

26:14A cost analysis basis, but this level of education in our long term residents is going to build

26:21Uh preservation on top of that they would be able to get data

26:24From the individual homeowner and what trees are there?

26:27What's uh, what's coming and how to protect us from things like oak wilt?

26:32Uh for the beach bark disease and from other pathogens like

26:35Nectaria canker and fungus that are coming and destroying our canopies

26:39As well as the poor soil content of gualf. I mean I really could go on but

26:42I'll probably stop there. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you worship

26:47Thank you and councillor Chew as well, please

26:50Thank you. Thank you, mr. Mayor. Thank you for your delegation

26:53So I just want to get it straight. You're an arborist

26:56And you're telling us that if we go to 30 right away before we have this program and it's by-law

27:03Put into place. It may it's just too fast. I think it's too fast. It creates public

27:09Uh distrust as well as it's going to stop the the public from planting trees on private by-law because they're going to say

27:16Well, I why am I going to do this if my trees don't mind you have to ease into it a bit

27:20You have to create awareness

27:21You also have to show them that you're not just doing this as a punishment to them for cash and lube because that's what a lot of

27:29the public do see

27:31okay, and another question so

27:34The whole reason why we're having this conversation to begin with is because

27:38Uh, there's a rat. There's an argument out there that if we

27:42Uh increase the threshold across the city, it'll cover more of the canopy

27:52So we have less

27:54individual homeowners and landowners that are that would be covered under this by-law

28:00How would we go? How would someone like yourself like with a private consultant go about the education?

28:06to

28:07Kind of make sure people know. Hey, we have a by-law

28:10and

28:11We may move forward towards something

28:14More prescriptive in the future

28:16Excellent question and thank you. So the incentivization for uh

28:21Education and for maintaining healthy trees. What is coming with pathogens disease and our environment and climate change is clearly

28:29Needs to be managed and I believe that

28:32Without managing the trees you have you're going to lose them anyways to these diseases and you're also going to lose track of the canopy

28:38That's here. So a healthy tree only has is defense is its vitality and once his vitality goes a variety of factors from

28:46pests pathogens disease fungus

28:49Many things lead to tree more decline in mortality

28:52So education is key and if you can teach and incentivize and ease your way into the program

28:57You can have more of the public on board

28:59and starting with the youth and with uh

29:02some of the

29:04Long-term residents of guelph help educate them

29:08That also gets somebody on their property to let them know about the trees to make them aware because

29:12People just aren't aware and one of the biggest confusions misinformation. You go to google something

29:16How do you know one thing is true versus one other thing? Everything is opinion-based

29:20But if you have a consultant or somebody come out or if it's from the city website from the truth

29:25Then you can help educate these people and you can help reach your canopy goal

29:29otherwise

29:30I believe that uh through studies and through what we've seen and through conversations with the international society of

29:36Boraculture Ontario chapter. We're seeing a lot of decline because of mismanagement

29:41Okay, and I have another question. Sure. So

29:45Theoretically if this by-law were to be in place without any um changes tonight

29:53People would be more dependent on calling you and your services to be able to cut down a tree

29:59That so that would be more in your

30:01Benefit and you'd be the one to go about the knowledge translation to educate people

30:08However, you're telling us that if we go 30 it's going to actually be

30:14It might not be in your favor as a consultant because

30:19it's just

30:20harder to do the work of

30:23showing people that

30:26So, yeah, basically it's just for you it's

30:30You think it's harder to talk to educate people about what we're doing if we go 30 right away

30:36You're creating a stigma that's making people not want to plant trees number one, right?

30:41And it's not about what's good for me or in business or not

30:44I've not brought any of my business into this aspect. This is about what's good for wealth

30:49For the people of wealth for the community and the trees that live in it

30:52Ethics is higher than than business or standards

30:55Okay, and you're trying to protect the reputation of your services

30:59as well

31:00If you can keep a customer if you can keep a tree you can keep a client. Okay. Yeah, sure. I appreciate that. Thank you

31:08Thank you downer and then karan

31:11Thank you through you mr. Mayor. So just a quick look at london's so that let me understand

31:17So there's his 40 centimeters

31:21But their program so the conservation program

31:24and sort of quick me if I understand is

31:27is to

31:31Take better care of the trees through the management that we have so you you have to hire qualified arborists like yourself

31:38In in london to do what it says pest management

31:43pruning

31:45Cable embracing I have a cable dope in my yard. I understand

31:49Um

31:51And so you so that's the type of program you're talking about and it differs the cutting down of

31:57Not just myself. There's many good professionals and companies in the area. Yeah

32:01Yeah, no, no, I'm not just saying you but arborists. Yes, qualify. Yeah, yeah, qualify

32:10So that's the kind of program that you're thinking that we should be looking at and so that the funds that we collect for

32:16replacements should go to

32:18Um

32:20grants or subsidizing

32:23Residents and I think it's a critical oversight to not even look at uh canopy management management

32:27So it's kind of like well, it's got a tree trust program now, right? Yes. My wife's on the board

32:32Yeah, right. So that's kind of I know they pick a tree every or a couple of trees every year that that

32:38Um, I know they did one in the wood lawn cemetery once and I think at the crey school

32:43They've looked after some and help cable. Okay. So that's the kind of thing that you're talking about

32:48Is the city got on board with that the the public would show greater interest

32:51Absolutely and preserving the tree rather than cutting it down. Yes taking care of better taking care and having healthy trees

32:58before these pathogens and disease

33:00Decline the vitality which leads to

33:03Any number of the exemptions on the current and proposed bylaw

33:08Okay

33:10Coran, please

33:12Thank you through you mr. Jamer

33:14Thank you for your delegation and I don't disagree that more education and more understanding of why we're doing this the importance of canopy for

33:21Not just climate action, but stormwater resilience and all the great things that you spoke about

33:27but you did make a

33:29Correlation between this bylaw and at 30 centimeters and people planting less trees

33:35And yet I wonder if

33:38We're the evidence of that is because in mississauga and oakville

33:43Tree planting is is quite their successful program on private lots and their bylaws 15 centimeters

33:50dbh

33:51in toronto

33:52At 30 centimeters. We don't see a reduction. I don't see a correlating reduction

33:57Based on what your diameter

34:00In the bylaw is and the number of trees being planted by private homeowner

34:04So I wonder if you had any data behind that statement successful successful plantings

34:09So yes, it's the data that comes out is they're planting trees, but is there any follow-up visits? Is there any watering?

34:15uh, it would be

34:17Prudent to take a look at the data if uh any of the urban planners had of the amount of trees that are being replanted

34:23So costs that are being wasted on that

34:26So yes, they may be planting trees. They could plant two trees in one location. Sure. Okay. Um, yeah

34:32I see where you're talking about maintenance and and information and education is important

34:37I'm trying to understand how that correlates to the 30 centimeters

34:41In the bylaw. Oh public interest public trust

34:46easing into a bylaw you can always tighten it absolutely

34:49But if people are afraid of it, they're not going to partake in it and if they don't have the right information

34:55they're likely to

34:57Not investigate

34:58Yeah, through talks that we've had at the international society of war culture in Windsor

35:03um, I met with delegates and people speaking on the board for toronto as well as mississauga and uh,

35:09John hennessey at the city of berlington and we had conversations

35:12So that's where some of my information is coming from because we know this has been coming for two years

35:16And it's a great program what they've started. I think we need something that's robust

35:20That's gonna last if you want to have it for another 15 years or if you want to make it so it's tear upgradeable

35:26not just

35:27We need to do it now

35:28We need to do it right because the right tree should have a 50 year plan for the city

35:33Not a not a two-year plan and replant

35:35In my opinion

35:39Okay, well, thank you very much. We appreciate your uh your delegation and your information. Thank you

35:46Oh, I'm so sorry. Just wait a second jonathan. I didn't see counselor billings hand. Thank you council boost until

35:51I have another question from counselor billings

35:54So real quick through your worship. So I think there's also another amendment to change it to 40 centimeters. So with all your

36:02knowledge and experience

36:04You are saying you do support the 50 centimeters, but I do but no lower

36:11I don't think it's a good idea. I based on the data and I really trust to me and where uh

36:17Her her input. She's been somebody that I've I've known through

36:21Work relations for many years. They put a lot of work into this. They made a recommendation. They did not do it lightly

36:27Okay, thank you. Yeah

36:30Okay, thank you very much. Uh, sorry one more look around

36:34For real this time. I don't see anybody. Thank you. Okay. Thanks a lot jonathan. Thank you very much

36:42Okay, um

36:45Let's see here. We have recommendations

36:48That are ahead of us. Yep. Um, and so like hey, why don't we just why don't we at least put the recommendations?

36:54Flowing from committee on the floor if we if we want to amend refer change whatever we can go after that

37:01But let's put them on the floor uh downer and goer. Okay, so it's on the floor and then I'll start with uh with downer questions

37:09So a question uh through mr. Mayor to staff just I want to hear your comments on the tree canopy conservation program

37:16I'm sure you've looked at the ones um

37:19from london

37:21And I like it I I see it sort of like the tree trust program that sort of but it's only dealing with some trees

37:27And it doesn't help private owners who have big trees mature trees that need to be taken care of

37:33So what are your

37:36Any thoughts on that

37:38Through you may I got three um

37:40It is on our long-term

37:43plan

37:43so it's part of the vision of the ufmp to

37:47carry out proactive maintenance on the canopy in general and

37:51The private property is definitely part of that. We look at the urban forest as a holistic

37:56Uh unit and it would be considered part of that

37:59It's not in the short-term plan, but it's in the longer-term plan potentially in the fourth phase of the ufmp

38:05so the urban forest management plan um that

38:09So you're saying it's in the fourth stage. So that's

38:12We had trouble getting the first stage down within the timeline

38:16Do not due to staff, but I mean budgeting and whatnot

38:20um, so like I like that sounds to me like it's 20 years out like so

38:29So

38:31So it's something that we're in alignment with something we'd like to see and and do you see any benefit now that we're

38:40They're regardless of whether we do 30 40 or 50 tonight. Is there any benefit in?

38:46Looking at that now in at some time in the near future in conjunction with the fees that we would be getting so some would be planting

38:54But some would be also conservation of the

38:58urban forest

39:00Yeah through you mayor gut three that's something we can definitely take away for consideration

39:05Okay, and when you think short-term

39:08Does that mean like two years like or like I just

39:11Have within five probably within the next five years again, there's we have our work plan and we're just updating the ufmp right now

39:20Um, just internally we're working on that and so we are working on our own

39:25proactive

39:27maintenance protocols like our own operations for city-owned trees as well and so it could be

39:33Combined with those conversations

39:35So when is this updated the urban forest management plan coming back to council as far as I know if

39:44Timing goes right. We were looking at

39:48Fall early winter

39:50So could we would it be if we wished it could council move a motion to have the tree panic canopy

39:59conservation program

40:01Identified in this current update to be in the short term

40:06So through the mayor to council, I don't like five years, but anyway

40:11Right and again, we're all starting from a good place here. We want a healthy canopy. So as to me and mentioned

40:16Was something like our urban forest an urban forest management plan the work plan continually evolves right depending on a variety of factors

40:23Including elements invasive species as we heard that may not be immediately on our on our work plan our focus

40:31Recently has been getting caught up on historical work orders as council is aware

40:36That's another factor that makes us look at our work plan

40:38Let us take back this for consideration and get back to council to see what we can do to prioritize other works

40:45To to move this up

40:47We'd want to consider things like our one canopy tree planting strategy which just came to council

40:52And we're looking at again using funds to identify planting priorities across the city. So

40:59In the moment, we just don't want to get too far ahead of ourselves and to commit to something because it could have impacts on other

41:04Bodies of work in the plan that we need to and want to engage. So in short order

41:10We can report back to council with a clearer

41:12Timeline as to when we may may be able to engage hearing that

41:17You know five years and beyond is not something that may be acceptable to council with this specific program

41:23So so with the motion tonight, so I just privately correspond with you now about a motion to bring forward tonight

41:29That would bring this back in the short term

41:32Um

41:35It and tied it tie it tied to the budget and the updated urban forest management plan

41:42Pardon a memo in the budget. I need some help with it

41:49Then that's what would be included and I know I know we're doing

41:52Like a lot of stuff around planting like I know there's programs now and planting on private property

41:57I think those are all great, but I do

42:00I do understand the point that there's no

42:0450 year plan for these trees that we're planting right so

42:08I think that that's sort of we we're we're getting we're doing a lot that way, but how do we look after how do we ensure that

42:16People have the resources or to look after the trees once they've been planted or once they start getting mature

42:22And how they're not interfered with by other activity on the property

42:26Um

42:29I think sort of and to me that gets to the issue that I raised at I've been raising like how

42:35When we do when there's construction happen, even when um developers want to retain trees

42:40We don't have any bylaws that that help us help them

42:45That guide like like around how not having heavy equipment sitting on the roots and things like that

42:51How do we you know work towards conservation with the development industry as well?

42:57So, um, I'd like to see a motion so I might have some quick

43:03Of course blinded with you while others ask questions

43:07Thanks, uh golller and then chew

43:10I see you as well alt thank you

43:12Thank you through your worship

43:15To staff just filling up on the on the some of the points raised by uh by mr. Harris

43:22In terms of the information that is available to to the public about this

43:27Could you help me understand?

43:30At what point are we doing a mapping of of the trees so that we know for sure the trees that exist in

43:37Private properties is that something that we have now an accurate mapping of the trees that are outside the city on private lots

43:44or

43:46So through me erga three, um, we don't have individual trees mapped and that's not something that's feasible at all

43:52What we have is the canopy mapped in terms of the spread across the the city itself

43:59um, there may be um

44:01An instance where we may inventory a single tree if somebody comes in for an exemption or

44:07a violation for uh

44:09Under the tree bylaw, but otherwise

44:12inventorying individual trees on private property

44:16Is infeasible. Um, another exception might be through

44:20Different types of applications where they provide tree plans and such but again, they wouldn't be mapped publicly those are

44:28internal

44:30Documents that we we review as part of applications and such okay, okay, so so whether it is 30 40 or 50

44:37centimeters that we're protecting we still rely on that

44:41Property owner to self report that those three success and that they're asking a permit for them, right?

44:47correct, um, we do have some data from the previous study where we could draw some correlation

44:54um based on the actual plot data for example and maybe in the future study in 2028 we could sort of build off of that and

45:04potentially

45:05Collect data that's a bit more meaningful in terms of the tree sizes

45:09So it's something again. We can look look at down the road when we do our next study. Okay. Thank you for that. Thank you worship

45:18Thank you

45:20to then alt

45:22Thank you through you mr. Mayor um

45:25Just sent you some I was just wondering if

45:28that

45:29tree conservation program rebate program

45:33We can just start to explore

45:36Newspalities and just have that be put in an info report at some point

45:41Like I think we just want to continue to have that conversation so we can massage this bylaw

45:47Towards more of an incentive program than just pure permitting. Is that something that?

45:52Would it be too burdensome for you guys to do?

45:57Through the mayor to councillor chou. We can take that away. Um to me and team do a very good job

46:03In being engaged with our partner municipalities

46:06On this topic. So that's not a stretch to stay informed in terms of reporting back to council

46:11It could may not be an information report could be an email

46:15To council to keep them

46:17Up to speed alt then boost it

46:28Thank you very much. Mayor deathly

46:30Three years staff staff. It's a very simple question, but it does affect

46:35Um, my understanding of the bylaw a little bit. Um

46:41We've been talking about the girth of the trees

46:44That 30 centimeters up to 50 centimeters in the last little while

46:48What is the approximate age of the 30 centimeter tree versus a 50 centimeter tree?

46:55And i'm talking about hardwoods like maple or oak or whatever and I know that there's a variance on those but those are

47:01Those the girth of those trees is is pretty significant and that's why I want to know the age

47:09Through you mayor Guthrie. That's a very difficult question to answer

47:13um

47:15We don't have direct correlations

47:17Between diameter and tree age for gualph yet. It is on our to-do list

47:24Again as part of our next study

47:26That's something we're hoping to do because it would definitely give us some more insight into some of the things that we're talking about

47:33Generally again a 30 centimeter tree depending on species could be 30 years old

47:39But it could be 70 years old as well

47:41Depending on species even the site you could have two of the same species but growing in very different conditions

47:47So I would hesitate to um give you a direct correlation between the two

47:52Thank you. I appreciate your hand or on that

47:55But you actually did help me because I was thinking

47:5830 to 50 years of age are the trees that we're talking about

48:02And I think that is important

48:04In determining

48:06How we support this bylaw

48:10All right, busatil, please

48:12Thank you and through the mayor and thank you to mr. Harris

48:15For the delegation. Um, I have a question for staff. Mr. Harris talked about

48:21Private tree planting and you know the kind of follow-up to know whether or not the two trees that I planted on my private property

48:28And you know, I'm going to ask about take root and the great program and uptake right now of of the great tree planting

48:36And what kind of follow-up? I know with take root. There was the photo. Yes, I planted it

48:41Um, is there some kind of conversation with people who participated in that around the ongoing maintenance care and so on

48:49Or any kind of data from these programs as counsel putting aside

48:55You know money to do the private tree planting is this part of that longer term kind of investment

49:04So through you mayor Guthrie. Um, I can't see for certain other than the initial

49:10Planting of the the backyard tree. Um the backyard trees that there's any other monitoring

49:15That's something staff can follow up on and get back to you though. Um,

49:19Ideally there is longer term monitoring. So with the tree bylaw

49:24We do intend to have a warranty period for trees that are

49:28Replacement trees that are required. Um, it would be for a limited time

49:34For sure because the long term would not be ideal for a typical homeowner

49:38But there is a there is a warranty period built into that

49:43Thank you. Just a supplemental if I may through the mayor when the landscape

49:47Program that the city does do they include trees to say, you know, you can you can support this tree canopy by

49:55Watering more

49:56In this area or things like that. Does it include trees?

50:01Through mega three. I'm sorry. Can you clarify what you mean by the landscape program?

50:05Thank you the healthy landscape

50:08program

50:09Um, I'm sorry. I can't speak. I can't speak to that

50:16Through the mayor. I'm looking to miss holmes, but the healthy landscapes program is not something that the forestry department looks after

50:22So I don't think we have the people here tonight who could likely speak to that

50:26Thank you. My question was just whether or not the residential visits

50:31You know looking at my rain garden and everything else. Are they also looking at the ash trees that I have that are all

50:37Inoculated and and you know help up and going to have to come down eventually

50:41Do they look at trees as well? And are there some synergies there for public education and conversations?

50:48Through you may I got three the answer to that is yes

50:50we

50:51definitely

50:52Partner with the healthy landscapes program when it comes to

50:55Education and outreach and yes very specifically the emerald ash borer program

51:00And other types of programs whether it's the backyard tree planting the the tree giveaways and whatnot

51:05So the answer is an absolute yes

51:09Instead of synergies or should be center trees

51:13Do you like that?

51:15Okay

51:16All right, um counselor to

51:19I think you have advised us that you would like to move an amendment the original

51:25Motion is on the floor

51:27So I can turn it over to you

51:29um, just be aware of your speaking time. Okay, and uh, and

51:33I I would like to know in advance. I

51:36Do you have a seconder for this you do? Yeah

51:40counselor

51:41Gibson

51:42Okay, perfect. Go right ahead

51:45Okay, uh clerics would you be able to put it on the screen so we could all read it together because there's a lot of text here

51:51Um, I'm just gonna keep it short. I sent an email to everybody kind of outlining my intentions, but basically

51:58Through the consultant report through my conversations with staff. I just feel like

52:04Like personally I would love to support a private tree by-law. I think first we need to put it in place like our

52:10Our arborist friend had said and give us some time to mature and I think as well

52:15The initial intent of the original

52:18staff recommendation is so that we can ease

52:21this by-law and educate

52:24Some of our developer proponents and proponents to have larger land parcels first

52:29once we

52:31do that data analysis and process

52:34maturation with with with those people affected

52:39Then we can maybe look at tightening the by-law and I think there's opportunity as well to align this

52:45With a public with a public conversation on how we can incentivize people with rebates

52:50So it's not just a pure permitting process, but it's also a financially incentivizing

52:57piece of

52:58of work that the city is actively working with

53:03With people like our arborist friend and I think as well

53:07We have to understand that we have a culture here in Guelph

53:10Where people are very culturally responsible and

53:14And they like to steward their own properties

53:16And I just feel like we starting at with by starting at 30 and not building up that awareness

53:22It will alienate people

53:24Who want to do the right thing?

53:26but feel forced through compliance to have to

53:31to hire

53:32x y and z and pay

53:34x y and z fees

53:36and I just feel like

53:38We can get to that point where we are where

53:41We need to have more tightening. I think at some point in time. We're going to have to do that

53:45But I think right now, especially with our staff capacity and the historical work orders that they have

53:52Mentioned is on the table. We we should be respectful of that as a council and

53:58That's basically the long story short here

54:01If anyone has any questions

54:04To me or staff, I would be happy to take those questions

54:08Okay, thank you councillor Chew. Does anyone have any questions? Okay, uh councillor billings

54:14On the amendment, please

54:17Sure, because the amendment is 40 centimeters. So through you your worship to staff

54:22so

54:23When staff recommended the 50 centimeters, we knew we were going to run a deficit

54:28However, with the 40 actually

54:31When it at cow it went to 30 we received

54:34We received an email from staff and it talked about

54:38Even at the 30 work plans would have to change

54:41certain planning

54:42Applications wouldn't be processed in time. Of course, we would run out of larger deficit

54:47But what about with the 40? I was wondering could staff comment with respect to the

54:5240 centimeters

54:56Through you may or got three. Yes. Um previously we provided information to council

55:01um with the impact of the 40 centimeter trees

55:06With an estimated funding gap of about

55:08potentially again high level estimate of 16 000 more than the 50 centimeter. So approximately

55:16238 000 of a funding gap. Um

55:20It's it's about going from 4 percent of the tree population of 50 centimeters

55:25We estimated it would be about 8 percent or double the tree population

55:32And with the 40 centimeters with respect to work plans planning applications those issues that staff pointed out with the 30

55:40What about with the 40?

55:47Through you may I got three there will still be impacts. Um, we would have to again

55:52Go back and uh, look at what those would be but there will be impacts very similar to what we're talking about

56:01Okay, thank you. Thank you

56:05Uh Gibson and then alt

56:08Yeah, thank you three mr. Mayor. So when when I spoke to counselor two about this, um

56:14It just it there was a bunch of wins here like on on from somebody perspective like staff have clearly identified the impacts

56:21This would cause for them and to our budget to go as drastic as 30 right off the bat

56:26we've heard from members of the public today and um,

56:30And we all want to get we all want to get there. We all want to protect some some trees

56:35Protectries on private property where it's reasonable. So I saw the 40 as uh,

56:40As a great compromise. I appreciate counselor two bringing it forward. I think it's well thought out. I think it meets

56:47many of our objectives

56:50And uh, and I think it still is a sound is a sound document one that I hope we can be unanimous or

56:59Thank you. Uh, alt and galler

57:02Sorry, excuse me. Mayor Guthrie

57:05I have a bit of a cough. That's why I'm not there tonight

57:07Um, I was waiting for amendment number two could please be put back up on the screen. I have a question for staff

57:20Thank you. Um, uh through you mr. Mayor to the staff

57:24Amendment number two strikes me as being very very technical and as a consequence of that

57:31I was wondering if you could please comment on the deliverability of this by q3

57:382027

57:41Through the mayor to council. Um, much of this is work that staff already do

57:45We had a conversation with councillor Chew

57:49And pointed in this direction because again a lot of this is in our scope of work right now

57:53We may recommend though instead of this report

57:58Just this report may include just to make the intent of the motion accurately but again

58:09Much of this work is already being completed by staff

58:12Thank you very much. I appreciate that it wasn't clear to me. So in in some senses

58:18Uh, the motion is just a reiteration of what is being done. Is that correct?

58:24Through the mayor to uh councillor Allt correct. Thank you very much. Thank you galler than carot

58:34Uh, thank you worship just the comments on this

58:37um, I heard our our delegate present and

58:42Call for us to put in place

58:44Canopy conservation program

58:46What I see in this motion is not that it it would change the the trees that would be protected

58:52So we'd be protecting 8% of our trees as opposed to the 14%

58:57If we kept it at uh at the so with the motion as it is i'm not able to support it

59:04Okay, you can just just jump in

59:07Councillor downer has a motion

59:09Literally kind of speaking to that issue that's coming separately than this whether this amendment or the original passes or fails regardless

59:18That that that kind of a motion is coming separately. It wouldn't be included

59:22And everyone has it already. Okay, so I just want to make sure that people aren't

59:27Tying the two together when it would be a separate thing anyways, okay

59:31Uh, caron, please

59:33Thank you, mr. Mayor. Um, I'd like to request a separation of the two clauses first of all

59:39Because I can obviously accept and and um

59:42Support clause two because it's work already being done and it also gives council data to go back and and do by-law reviews

59:49As which is always good practice for us to do

59:52um, I can't support clause one um because this

59:55Tree by law private tree by law has been well over a decade in the making which my my uh

1:00:02Ward mate knows full well

1:00:05We did a lot of public engagement and in fact on page 12 of the

1:00:10public engagement summary

1:00:12We see that 21 of respondents said less

1:00:16Or at least 10 centimeters in diameter and 39 percent said 20 centimeters for a total of 60 percent

1:00:24Looking for protecting tree diameters below 30 centimeters

1:00:28I think 30 centimeters for me was actually the the compromise

1:00:32um, we have a 40 percent canopy goal and we're just not getting there and this

1:00:38by-law is a step in helping us to get there because it is about preserving what we have

1:00:44Absolutely, we need to maintain our tree canopy and increase through plantings. Those are other mate matters

1:00:51and councillor downer's

1:00:54Future motion that's all about the next phases, but tonight we're just talking about what we're going to protect

1:01:01So I will be supporting the original and uh voting against the amendment

1:01:07Thank you. Happy to uh split that

1:01:10Okay, I'm trying to I'm trying to wrap this amendment up, but I'm now I'm circling and I'm going back to councillor Allt

1:01:17Thank you. Mr. Mary won't be circling. These are just my comments

1:01:20I cannot support clause number one

1:01:24um, the reason I asked staff my question was I wanted to really get an assessment of what maturity some of the trees would be that would potentially

1:01:33Not be protected by this by-law and like councillor Caron the 30 centimeters

1:01:39Would have to be my cutoff and I and I recognize that trees of various types grow at different speeds

1:01:46The cherry trees that I planted 12 years ago are probably only 10 centimeters. The oak trees grow very slowly

1:01:54But when we're getting to talk about trees that are 20 years to 50 years old

1:01:58I'm a bit concerned because we want to get them to to 100 years old and 100 years old in in reasonable time

1:02:06So consequently, I think that the 30 centimeters is a good cutoff

1:02:13Thank you

1:02:15Okay, uh

1:02:17So I I will be supporting the amendment

1:02:21Um, as I as everyone knows at the committee, I didn't support the 30 at all

1:02:26Um, I kind of wanted to go with what the staff recommendation was

1:02:30But I like to try to meet in the middle. So um, that's why I would support this amendment

1:02:35Um, I think it's important just to put on the public record. I'd like I'd like to have um, just some of the staff points that we all know now know about

1:02:42about what the impacts are

1:02:44to um

1:02:46To if we if we do pass the 30 if this if this one doesn't uh go

1:02:52So, um, actually technically procedurally, no, I will if this fails

1:02:57I will speak to this if the 30 centimeters remains. So I will stop myself

1:03:03Uh, so with that, I will just I will be supporting both, uh, both portions of this amendment

1:03:08Uh, and uh, I'll call the vote on number one, which is sort of the middle of the road the 40 centimeters

1:03:15So I'll call the vote on that right now as anyone against that one

1:03:19So goller and busatil

1:03:22and uh, Richardson downer coran

1:03:25and uh, gypsum

1:03:27I'm sorry, not gypsum. Sorry billings and alt and coran

1:03:32Okay

1:03:35K10, I'm sorry. I really need to wear my glasses. I'm very sorry k as well

1:03:40Clerks, are you okay with that? Did you capture it? Okay

1:03:43Through you miss mayor. We have that failing on a three to eight vote. Yep. Okay. Thank you

1:03:48And now I'll call the vote on number two as a standalone

1:03:52And is anyone against that?

1:03:56Okay, that's unanimous

1:03:58Okay, thank you very much

1:04:00So now we're back to the main motion gen as it stood. I'll go to yours after okay. Yeah

1:04:06Um, so we're going back to to that. Do I need to does anyone need to have a round on that one at all?

1:04:11Or are we good to go?

1:04:13Okay, coran and then billings

1:04:18I was anticipating that you were going to speak on the main motion related to

1:04:23Budget and then I was going to respond. Did you you indicated that you were going to speak to it after the motion passed?

1:04:30Yeah, but I'm just uh, that would be councillor downers motion

1:04:33And I'm not to that one yet. I because the amendment to the main motion failed

1:04:37I'm just now calling the vote on the main motion

1:04:39Which is what flowed from committee to hear the 30 centimeters and all that kind of stuff

1:04:43Sorry, did I see another hand come up on this one?

1:04:46Okay, billings

1:04:49Yes, sorry through you through you mr. Mer

1:04:52um, okay, so with the bylaw. I mean it was supposed to be um

1:04:58A bylaw that's not onerous. It's affordable

1:05:01So even at the info sessions

1:05:03I I still have a problem and that's the two things

1:05:08Which actually won't be

1:05:11um

1:05:12modified amended until

1:05:14after the bylaws passed

1:05:16and and into the tree manual and that is

1:05:20the width

1:05:22for in centimeters for the replacement trees

1:05:25And also the timing for the return of the period positive

1:05:29So with respect to the replacement trees

1:05:32It was mentioned in the info session and I think how it was going to be six centimeters

1:05:38However, when a city the city replaces a tree on someone's front yard because it was death whether it was a city-owned tree

1:05:45Or a shared tree it comes in around four centimeters and a pot

1:05:50And and it gets planted the six centimeters does not come in a pot and it's

1:05:57More expensive, but also it needs equipment. So again, there's now another cost to the homeowner

1:06:05So I was just wondering if staff

1:06:09Through you your worship

1:06:10Could respond to the six centimeters and why we couldn't have it at the four and a half just like the city uses

1:06:18um to replace their trees

1:06:23Through you mayor gut three. Um, thank you for your question. Um

1:06:26At this time, I know we've discussed this

1:06:29Previously, but at this time we're going to maintain the standard replacement tree as a six centimeter tree

1:06:37But when we come to updating reviewing and updating the tree technical manual, we will take into consideration

1:06:46The flexibility in sizing or alternate

1:06:50tree replacement sizes

1:06:52And just for information the tree technical manual currently does say that smaller trees are

1:07:00acceptable as an option as long as the

1:07:04as long as the

1:07:06Intent is there again, you can replace two smaller trees for one larger tree and whatnot. So there is some flexibility

1:07:13built in

1:07:15Okay, thank you. Also one last question through your worship. So, um

1:07:21Some counselors have have mentioned and quoted. Oh, but vancouver's doing this in toronto and and they have

1:07:2720 centimeters or 30 centimeters. So I wanted to ask to me, um, the other municipalities that have

1:07:35uh, those centimeters, do they not have I'll call it like a tree department

1:07:41where you've got tree bylaw enforcement officers and and um supervisors like an actual department

1:07:52Through you mayor gut three. Yes, that is true. So again, I can only just off the top of my head think of two specific examples

1:07:59toronto and hamilton

1:08:04have separate tree bylaw departments with

1:08:07uh, supervisory staff

1:08:09overseeing a department of multiple

1:08:12uh, tree inspectors and some of them even have their own

1:08:16uh, tree bylaw inspectors whereas we have a bylaw department and a

1:08:21Forestry department. So we're not set up

1:08:24similar to some of those municipalities

1:08:27So if council decides through your worship to approve the 30 centimeters

1:08:32So then for the 2026 budget confirmation process

1:08:37Then staff would be bringing back yet again another increase to the budget

1:08:46Through the mayor to council, correct. We've been clear through the process that should we move away

1:08:50From staff recommendation

1:08:52There would be increased budget demands and even as we discussed with the current

1:08:56staff recommendation from staff there would be a budget ask, right?

1:09:01But with 30 centimeters just much more

1:09:05Through mayor to council, correct. Thank you

1:09:10All right, thanks. I'd like to try to just wrap this up and and and go ahead and vote on the the main motion

1:09:15as it stood

1:09:16So I won't be supporting this and i'm going to give the reasons why as uh outlined by staff just want to just want it out loud

1:09:25um

1:09:26Moving from 50 to 30 centimeters will result in the bylaw applying

1:09:31But have impacts on city finances staff resourcing and property owners and development costs

1:09:37The amendment poses resourcing challenges for several departments, particularly parks planning bylaw and legal services

1:09:44And this may affect staff's ability to manage existing workloads

1:09:48The proposed amendment to the bylaw will require an increase to the annual operating budgets for parks

1:09:53This represents a 0.4 percent tax levy increase that will now need to be reflected in the 2026 budget

1:10:01Additionally planning will incur a shortfall of an estimated 3.5 weeks of work annually for an existing position

1:10:07And it is anticipated that the increased volume at the committee of the

1:10:11committee of adjustments applications would now uh apply

1:10:15This is anticipated to impact overall review timelines for our planning act applications

1:10:20Bylaw will be impacted

1:10:22Additional support from legal services may now be required

1:10:25In addition to the direct and indirect costs the city's proposed amended bylaw will have economic and timeline impacts on residents

1:10:33and developers

1:10:34The proposed amendment put forward at the committee the whole has the potential to impose

1:10:39additional requirements and costs for smaller residential projects that are not currently subject to the bylaw

1:10:47These costs include arborist services for producing now tree plans

1:10:51Financial securities for cash and lew more properties undertaking smaller scale projects such as

1:10:57construction for ad use or other building additions to their properties

1:11:01The amendment is also anticipated to extend project timelines

1:11:07Potentially beyond the legislated 10 business day turnaround time for building permits

1:11:14So this may impact overall timelines for all construction activities

1:11:18For those reasons I cannot support this

1:11:21I can stay at the 50 which was already a good thing which was already a positive thing that came from staff

1:11:28It already came with some outlined costs, but I cannot move to what what what council is now considering

1:11:36Uh, respectfully, I think these impacts are way too great for our community

1:11:40And so um, I respect of course council is a different opinion and position

1:11:44But for that reason, I will not be supporting. Uh, what's on the screen today

1:11:52Downer and correct excuse me downer than karan

1:11:56Thanks, sir. Mr. Mayor. So I just I just want to confirm with staff you on

1:12:00March 27th, you sent me what and we shared with all of council

1:12:05The difference between the 50 and the 30 from a funding gap

1:12:09So the estimated funding gap with a 50 centimeter tree was 222,000

1:12:14The current uh with the 30 centimeter it was 261,000

1:12:17So a 40 000 difference between the 50 and the 30 centimeter a year

1:12:23Correct

1:12:24Great

1:12:25also the um, estimated fte gap one for uh, 50 centimeters. It was 1.6

1:12:33And for 30 centimeters, it was 1.9

1:12:36So not even half right and have t correct

1:12:40Also the estimated proportion of regulated tree population on private property that would be protected is on the 50 percent

1:12:4850 centimeters was 4

1:12:50And the and under 30 uh, 30 centimeters was 14 percent correct

1:12:56Correct, okay

1:12:58um

1:12:59So and you also indicated that it would rank slightly higher than the others due to the number of trees captured

1:13:06But it would rank lower just to the cost to the city. So that 40 000

1:13:11Correct, correct. Okay. So that's the information we received that I shared with all of council

1:13:17And when you think of in the report it talks to

1:13:20multi multi millions of dollars

1:13:22In infrastructure that trees provide

1:13:26In the terms of runoff flooding and all those things for um, all of us. I think that 40 000 and that

1:13:33one third of an fte

1:13:35Is uh, I understand there are other implications

1:13:38But I think that is certainly worth it and I still will be moving motion around a tree conservation plan

1:13:45And thank you and karan, please. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Mayor. And I appreciate, you know, fiscal

1:13:50Responsibility is part of our jobs and I I know that you take that very seriously

1:13:54But the one thing we do a lot is we talk about the cost and we don't talk about the return on investment

1:13:59And there is lots of data on the return of investment everything from extreme heat water scarcity

1:14:05biological hazards degraded ecosystems

1:14:10Health and well-being clean air and we have city of toronto data along with a td bank who run tree planting programs

1:14:18um, that found that even with with a 30 centimeter

1:14:22bylaw

1:14:23The return on investment works out to about 125 dollars of savings per annum per household

1:14:32Or about eight dollars per tree for those additional benefits to the municipality

1:14:37And I think that when you when you put it into those terms we actually come out ahead

1:14:42So I will be supporting this wholeheartedly and and I hope that that return on investment could be factored in

1:14:49to any budget deliberations or any

1:14:52consideration and and data that you're using

1:14:55Mr. Mayor when you're contemplating

1:14:58The the cost impacts in in the mayor's budget process. Thanks. Yes, of course. Thank you

1:15:03Uh and councillor Chew, please

1:15:10Okay, um through you mr. Mayor

1:15:12Um to staff could you share with the the funding for

1:15:17From four to eight percent just so I remember

1:15:24Through you may I got three sorry. Can you see that like one more time? Sorry. So if we went from 50 to 40

1:15:31diameter

1:15:3316 000

1:15:36That would be the difference, right? Yes. Okay, and can you kind of share with me too? How are you would

1:15:43You're gonna have to rearrange your

1:15:46historical work orders in light of us moving to 30

1:15:52To kind of prioritize this work. Can you share a little bit of that?

1:15:56Through the mayor to councillor Chew

1:15:58As we noted on april 1st that is work that we're going to have to do so staff provided a recommendation

1:16:04on the 50 centimeters

1:16:06With a note to budget

1:16:09Based around being able to continue

1:16:11The workload that we have right now

1:16:14As we move away from that staff recommendation staff are going to need some time to to to find out where we're going to land

1:16:20If it's going to be 30 centimeters or 40 centimeters, there's a difference there for staff as we're hearing

1:16:26That will impact our workload

1:16:28What that will look like, um, you know to mia as an example

1:16:32Her role is responsible for the administration of this bylaw to me is role also handles third party contracts

1:16:39That is the kind of thing the third party contracts that may come off the list

1:16:43That will look like, um slower operational works in the field. Um, and again, we've made significant gains as you know

1:16:51In catching up to those historical workloads

1:16:53That's an example of how we're going to see this and respectfully

1:16:57Staff needs some time to evaluate that once we've landed

1:17:01On the dbh

1:17:04So just to be clear

1:17:06Inevitably work is going to have to be dropped to reprioritize because of this

1:17:11shift in prioritization

1:17:13Through the um mayor to council unless we have resources at budget

1:17:17Okay

1:17:19Okay, I guess I just have a comment

1:17:22Like I like to me personally like i'm a like i'm trained as a landscape architect on the landscape designer at the moment

1:17:29I would love to support this wholeheartedly. I just feel like

1:17:34I don't want to repeat what's been said already, but I just feel like this is happening way too fast

1:17:39And we need to have a framework in place

1:17:41Surrounding the bylaw and I I felt like the 40 would have been a great compromise for everyone so that we're not painted against

1:17:49Not liking trees and and and liking trees because I feel like there's there's more complexity to this than that in order to

1:17:56Steward our tree canopy better

1:17:59So I just feel like I I can't support this

1:18:03But I do want to put on the record that I I absolutely

1:18:07At the support of a tree private tree bylaw as a framework in place, but I can't support it in this current form

1:18:14So I just need to make that clear for everyone. Okay. Thank you

1:18:18Wrap it up councillor ult. I want to call the vote. Thank you very much. Well, we'll have to wait till I'm done

1:18:25I'm

1:18:26Speaking as a grandfather and speaking during earth week. I think it is absolutely essential that we support this

1:18:33My colleagues made mention of the return on investment. I think that's very important

1:18:37When we consider riverways and erosions and the roles that trees play in that when we consider that we have a Guelph greener homes

1:18:45program where we are trying to encourage people to do the environmentally and environment and

1:18:51Ecologically correct things to do and where we pride our city on being a leader in the environment

1:18:57The simple thing that I can say is if London the forest city can do it

1:19:02Then Guelph can do it better and that's why I believe we owe it to generations to come

1:19:08To do this and recognize the return on investment not just for this budget, but for budgets to come is well worth it

1:19:16All right. Thank you

1:19:19All right, then just before I call the vote. Thank you for the opinions everybody

1:19:22This is why we got all elected to have different opinions. That's fine

1:19:26um, and uh

1:19:28I I am feeling no just a tad

1:19:31Just a little bit like it is what councillor chou said like either your four trees or you're against I don't like that feeling

1:19:38I don't like it

1:19:39I just feel a little vibe just a little vibe of that

1:19:42So I just want to say it out loud that

1:19:44The original recommendation from staff that I was going to support was wholesome changes and better protections

1:19:52And so I just want to make it very clear that any of the environmental type of discussions here

1:19:57I am behind them. I think where I feel very comfortable in my position today is because councillor chou's second amendment passed

1:20:06Which is the data the impacts that can come back within two years

1:20:10So

1:20:11All of the the laundry list of all the bullet points that I said about what I'm what I'm concerned about

1:20:16Especially the planning timeline legislative timelines

1:20:19um

1:20:20Maybe in two years that data comes back to us and it's like hey, it wasn't that bad, right?

1:20:24And I can be like, okay. I'm behind this. Let's let's let's go

1:20:27So I think I'm happy that I I didn't know you were bringing that forward councillor chou

1:20:30But I think that's really great that you did that so we can get that data

1:20:33Later on to see how the impacts of something like this is going to be it looks like it looks like passed

1:20:39Um, and so, you know, we could we could play the game a little bit here of like well

1:20:43If you really like trees then make an amendment for 20 centimeters or 15 centimeters

1:20:48Like you know, you could just keep going down and down and down. No councillor crown. Don't do it

1:20:51just kidding

1:20:52But like I just want to make sure that they're you know, uh, it kind of reminded me a little bit of uh

1:20:58Of the online voting thing before the end of the vote. It was like there's nobody here that's against democracy

1:21:03There's nobody here. Like everyone just has a different opinion on it

1:21:06Same thing with the tree thing right here, right? We're going to vote differently on it

1:21:08but we're all behind the environmental initiatives and uh, it's it's to me

1:21:13I just want to make sure that's very clear that we're not pointing fingers at each other and saying well

1:21:17I you know, I'm I'm better than you than on this. I just let's let's let's not go there

1:21:22Okay, uh with that I'll call the vote who is against the main motion as it stands

1:21:30Okay, chou and myself guthrie and gipson and billings

1:21:33Okay, so that passes. Thank you

1:21:36And thank you to staff by the way, I know there was a so much engagement and then uh, these changes in the last month

1:21:43You've done a really great job in informing us. So thank you very much

1:21:46Uh, to you councillor downer, you have this uh standalone one about kind of preservation plan and budget. So go right ahead

1:21:56So it's that staff uh report back on a canopy conservation plan in the short term in the updated

1:22:03urban forest management plan and that

1:22:06Man will be included in the draft

1:22:082026 budget update for further consideration

1:22:11by miragrath re and city council

1:22:14Thanks and gollar seconded that so that's perfect. Yeah, okay. Thank you

1:22:18Um

1:22:19Seems pretty straightforward to me. Can I call the can I call the vote nope councillor Goller?

1:22:24Uh briefly, I just wanted to thank the delegate for bringing this to our attention and letting us know that this is important

1:22:29That we need the conservation plan. So just thank you for being here. Thank you worship. Yeah, thank you

1:22:36Okay, and oh, sorry Gibson go ahead

1:22:38Yeah, um, it I don't think it's gonna affect my vote. I just wanted to know is something that staff are gonna be doing in house

1:22:43or is this going to be um

1:22:46Are we putting

1:22:48Are we adding costs to staff's work plan right now without understanding the cost of it?

1:22:54If it's an if it's an in-house in kind uh report, that's great, but

1:22:57Just like to know through the mayor to council in house

1:23:03Great. Thank you, sir

1:23:06All right, I'll call the vote is anyone against those two motions from councillor downer

1:23:12Unanimous, thank you very much

1:23:15All right, go plant a tree everybody protect trees. We're done. We're done that topic. All right. Thank you very much

1:23:22Okay, we're moving on to the last item

1:23:24The vehicle for higher accessibility fund the request by redtop taxi for vehicle accessibility modifications

1:23:31As it says right on the uh on the agenda

1:23:34Mayor Guthrie will speak regarding this item because it was added

1:23:37Just late last week. So i'm going to speak to it

1:23:40I'm going to set the stage a little bit before the delegations come up and then we can decide what you want to do from there

1:23:45Um, and I will look I'm going to go. I have no notes. So I'm going to go by memory as much as I can

1:23:51I'll look to staff if I am if I'm speaking at a turn

1:23:56So the context of this is that late last week, uh, the accessibility committee

1:24:01Had a decision to make in regards to funds

1:24:05That were being requested by redtop taxi

1:24:08Which is our only mobility accessible taxi service in the city

1:24:13To use funds to go to modifications for a new van so that people could still be able to use accessible

1:24:20mobility services by them both within our city

1:24:24And actually even outside of our city just to be clear. Okay. It's not just for for gulf

1:24:29and uh

1:24:31Where the funds were coming from was you know a reminder to me because I gotta be honest. I forgot about it

1:24:37It was seven years ago

1:24:40That under the new taxi license and ride sharing licensing

1:24:45There was a working group that was established that determined a way that we could help

1:24:51To make sure that we continue with mobility and accessibility

1:24:55Transportation is that we would take fees

1:24:58And we would set up an account that's dedicated

1:25:02to grow

1:25:05To help with then money that would go to modifications for taxis

1:25:10That's it like it is it's as plain as day. That's it

1:25:15and the way it was originally set up was that uh, the money would go into that account

1:25:20And uh to date there's a little over 330

1:25:24thousand dollars

1:25:25That are in that account

1:25:27And it's never been touched

1:25:29It's never been touched. There's no money that's ever come out of it at all

1:25:33and so

1:25:34redtop taxi

1:25:35came to the accessibility committee

1:25:38And they asked for the money as was originally set up

1:25:43Seven years ago

1:25:44Which council approved and at the time the original aac group also approved

1:25:51And the committee has the right to say yes or no and they said no, okay

1:25:57And uh, they said no for their reasons

1:26:00And when I found out about that

1:26:03I felt it warranted coming to council for us to make an ultimate decision

1:26:09Up from the committee to council

1:26:12because I felt

1:26:13That we needed to adhere to what the original intent

1:26:18and the backing of a seven-year

1:26:21fee being collected under a policy

1:26:24Was supposed to be used for

1:26:27And I would like to support accessible mobility transportation services to continue in our community

1:26:33Especially if there is a van that might be coming off the road

1:26:37And so that is why redtop taxi came

1:26:40And that is why this is now before us today

1:26:44I want to also say

1:26:45That I heard in the meeting from the accessibility committee that there were other and separate issues

1:26:51Okay, so I want us to park that issue and I want us to now concentrate on the other issues that I also heard

1:26:58valid

1:27:00Okay valid

1:27:02Is there different way we could help with mobility issues?

1:27:06Is there uh different ways of funding that could occur?

1:27:10Is there different programs that could occur? Could taxi scripts be better?

1:27:15valid 100 but

1:27:18That is separate

1:27:21From the policy

1:27:24And that's why this is in front of us today

1:27:27um

1:27:28We have delegations in regards to this matter

1:27:31And so I just want to set the stage then

1:27:33Um a couple of things one. Thank you for coming

1:27:37You get to speak to us the same as you heard earlier

1:27:40There is our procedural bylaw allows no more than five minutes

1:27:44At the four minute and 32nd mark

1:27:46You will hear a

1:27:50That means wrap it up because at the five minute mark

1:27:53You will have your microphone cut off

1:27:57Um, I am making an exemption for I was previously requested by laura lyreuth

1:28:03Who needs a little bit more time and of course I have accommodated that before and we'll accommodate that tonight

1:28:09um, the other part

1:28:11Is once you are done your delegation there might be questions

1:28:14So go ahead and ask your question if there's a stay just in case there's questions from any of my colleagues or myself

1:28:19And the last thing is I just want to remind everybody that our procedural bylaw is very clear

1:28:25A delegate may only address council or the committee with respect to the item on the agenda

1:28:33They are registered to speak to

1:28:37The item that we are speaking to that's on the agenda

1:28:41Is literally black and white

1:28:43Yes or no

1:28:44Do you want to give money

1:28:46To red top taxi out of a policy that was established seven years ago?

1:28:50Or don't you

1:28:52That's what is on the agenda and that's the parameters as your chair that I have to adhere to

1:28:58By the procedural bylaw that we all voted on that's what I have to do

1:29:03With that, thank you for letting me speak to the item and so we will begin to

1:29:07um, call up the delegations. There's a few and the first one is

1:29:13Uh, Muhammad, uh, Iqbal am I am I saying that right? Yeah, okay. Come on down

1:29:20To the microphone

1:29:25Oh, okay. I'm so sorry. I did you want to

1:29:29Your debbie are you? Oh, sorry debbie and are you christopher? Yes. Okay christopher

1:29:34Thank you. Yeah, if you did you all want to come down at the same time

1:29:37May I just ask are are you doing separate five minute delegations?

1:29:40Or are you all together to speak and then we can only have five minutes for all three of you?

1:29:47Okay, five minutes for all three and then if you want to stay there just in case there's questions. That's fine

1:29:52All right, so whenever you start talking the timer will start going from there. Okay

1:29:57Thanks. Thanks very much everybody

1:30:01Okay, hello. Just I want to say thank you for allowing us just time to speak tonight

1:30:06My name is christopher wilson

1:30:08I'm a

1:30:09mobility van manager redtop taxi for seven years now

1:30:13Aside from golf mobility redtop is the only other mobility service in golf that i'm aware of

1:30:18When we started this program we had two vehicles

1:30:22In the mobility business and it has grown to six vehicles

1:30:26Even at six vehicles. We are still having to turn people away

1:30:31At redtop taxi we also do many rides outside of city limits taking citizens of golf to medical appointments

1:30:37In toronto london kitchens cambridge furgus hamilton

1:30:41We're also their means of transportation to visit their loved ones on holidays outside of the city limits

1:30:47Which golf mobility does not do

1:30:51Seven years ago when I got involved in the mobility part of this taxi service

1:30:55The cost of a vehicle convert converted was around $60,000

1:31:01fast forward to today

1:31:03That cost has risen to

1:31:05Around $100,000 with the conversion

1:31:09It's no longer feasible to purchase a vehicle at that cost to use as a taxi

1:31:13That is why we are requesting funding for the conversion of the vans

1:31:18In those seven years, I can't tell you how many customers

1:31:22Have expressed their gratitude for this service

1:31:25As without it, they would not be able to have the freedom the people without mobility needs have

1:31:30I managed two of the accessible vans one of which is now out of service

1:31:35It has around 700,000 kilometers on it and it is no longer viable to put money into this vehicle

1:31:43I'm looking to replace this vehicle, but the cost is now astronomical

1:31:48Again, that is the reason why we are requesting funding for the conversion part

1:31:52As the baby boomers get older the demand for this service is getting bigger

1:31:57I also own a regular taxi and I can tell you the cost of replacing one of those vehicles versus replacing an accessible taxi

1:32:03Is not even comparable

1:32:06With this funding, I will be able to continue helping the citizens of Guelph that rely on this service

1:32:11I have a passion for this job and would like to see this service continued to exist in the Royal City

1:32:19Without the funding, I don't see this service lasting much longer

1:32:30Thank you very much. That's your that's your time and we appreciate your delegation. And so we'll just start with some questions. Okay, and

1:32:37Perhaps if you don't mind maybe the two of you might if it's comfortable for you

1:32:41If you could just make sure that if there's a question that you have to answer you would come up to this microphone here, okay?

1:32:46Um, uh, boosted till and then go on my side. Okay

1:32:51Thank you and through the mayor

1:32:53And I apologize. This is all new to me about taxi and permits and

1:32:582018 report this is I feel quite ill informed. I'll be very honest

1:33:04So can you help me understand a little bit of the mechanics kind of the structure here?

1:33:09Is mobility services tied to the taxi cab

1:33:14Driver or is it the company red top that has kind of this permit?

1:33:20The mobility services a contract with red top where we

1:33:24Is contracted out and we go and pick the citizens up and drive them around

1:33:29Okay, so it's it's with the company red top. It's not with individual drivers

1:33:33Okay, so my my second question was it's it's about data, right?

1:33:38And you know the mayor is always saying to me get the data, you know get some some data and so on

1:33:44um

1:33:45So from what I've read and what I've received today in a flurry from from staff and so on is that

1:33:51You know the demand is growing outside of the service time when

1:33:57public transit mobility services are

1:34:00So do does a red top keep data you're talking about the increase and baby boomers

1:34:06Are you able to say from this time in the evening or on this?

1:34:10This is what our ridership and it is it directly related to not baby boomer boomer. Sorry. I'm a baby boomer

1:34:19Baby boomers. Is it are you able to directly link it to?

1:34:23disability

1:34:25accessibility services

1:34:37As far as the data is concerned

1:34:40Oh, okay, sure

1:34:44Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to speak

1:34:47As far as the data is concerned

1:34:49last year

1:34:51We have about 14,119 completed rights

1:34:55Um, that's about like 1200 calls per month. That's the average that we do

1:35:02That's not including the the call that turned away

1:35:10Thank you. I guess I was looking for

1:35:12So that is

1:35:14Are you saying that is outside of what?

1:35:17Guelph mobility so what I'm struggling with is I'm hearing from staff is that there is a

1:35:23Transit study that is taking place and we'll probably see the results coming up soon that will include accessibility

1:35:31And I'm I'm not seeing like I would love to have a report from red top

1:35:38That says this is what the service and the demands are and the rationale for why we need to get another

1:35:45Because it feels to me that we're also going to be getting a report from from transit from guelph transit

1:35:51To give us a more full sum

1:35:54overview of

1:35:56Accessibility i'm just going to jump in to be very clear. They are not asking for another

1:36:01They have a current van that is at end of life. Am I right? Yes

1:36:05So so that van will no longer be available

1:36:09The thousands of rides that they do will no longer happen

1:36:13The the the vehicle is gone

1:36:15They are replacing a vehicle in their lifecycle replacement

1:36:18And they need the money that was collected for seven years in an account to be able for them to continue to provide that service

1:36:25So this has nothing to do with additional stuff or additional mobility transportation. We can talk about that in a minute

1:36:32Absolutely, but procedurally

1:36:35We need to really put the blinders on and focus on

1:36:39The question at hand is should red top taxi be allowed to get the $39,500

1:36:46That they require out of an account that was set up seven years ago for this exact thing

1:36:51That's it anything else after that. We can talk about the after we settle this first

1:36:56Thank you. And and through you the mayor

1:36:58I guess I have some additional questions for for the staff because i'm feeling that i'm asked to make a decision blindly

1:37:04I'll be very honest and i'm feeling very uncomfortable about this

1:37:08Okay, so let's get a bit more details before the delegations. I know this is a little bit out of whack

1:37:12But i'm going to allow it unless not someone challenges me

1:37:16To our deputy ceo calling clock bush. Did you want to

1:37:20Fill in any blanks or give a perspective of what council is looking at?

1:37:24Sure

1:37:24So through the mayor, maybe I can fill in a few blanks and then i'll pause and see if there's other questions

1:37:28Obviously the council booths that it'll has so just from a clarification point of view

1:37:33The the funds that come into this account the other thing that I just want to make sure I highlight is this was related to ride sharing

1:37:39programs being offered

1:37:41So not to name companies but uber and lyft

1:37:44And so when that was licensed

1:37:46The decision was because they don't provide accessible vehicles instead they would contribute and I believe it's seven cents a ride

1:37:54I'm looking mr. Dukke godfrey is nodding

1:37:56And so in the time the

1:37:58$332,000 that has been collected has come from those ride sharing companies and they pay into that fund

1:38:04The reason why at the time the working taxy companies

1:38:12I believe from the ride sharing companies

1:38:14Is and as the delegate mentioned

1:38:16Guelph transit is not able to manage the volume of mobility requests that we get

1:38:22And also does not offer services 24 7 which red top does as well as out of town as the delegate mentioned

1:38:29So a lot of the requests that red top is getting do come through

1:38:33Guelph transit mobility services and we have a contract with red top so that they are who we go to when we can't

1:38:40Complete the number of mobility requests that we may get

1:38:44And then obviously after hours on on holidays when we're not offering service out of town

1:38:49And I also don't want to speak on behalf of red top. They may well

1:38:54I assume use their accessible vehicles for clients who don't come in through the Guelph transit

1:39:00Avenue at all

1:39:02And they are simply providing

1:39:04That service and then just the other thing that I wanted to make sure I provided in terms of information that I think has probably helped

1:39:10Is that there are

1:39:1386

1:39:13licensed

1:39:14Taxes in Guelph across all of the companies

1:39:18And so right now the six that are accessible is

1:39:22All of the 86 that are accessible

1:39:24And so if this one is not so six of the 86 and

1:39:30And and so this is to retain that

1:39:32Level of six

1:39:33So that's maybe some background of some of what I've heard

1:39:36But then I'll stop and see if there are other questions that I haven't answered there

1:39:40Thank you and through the mar. Yes, that's very helpful. So do you have a number of the number of call requests that actually come through the city?

1:39:49Through the mayor specific to Guelph transit

1:39:53No that are are directed to

1:39:55So what we can provide and get back to council on and again because this wasn't a transit specific item

1:40:01We don't have the the transit staff here tonight necessarily to speak. I'm doing my best

1:40:06We can get the data in terms of how many

1:40:10Um, so what the what the total value was across 2024 as well as in 2025 for both

1:40:19The the mobility calls that we that we transferred over to red top through the taxi script program

1:40:25What do I know there are some questions about as well as for those overflow where our mobility services couldn't provide them

1:40:32Provide the service and we can we can share that with

1:40:35council

1:40:36The fair strategy, which is what I think you were referring to council busatil that came forward for council approval in 2023

1:40:45So council approved our fair strategy in 2023 which did include

1:40:50Um, uh, the change that staff recommended related to the taxi script program as well as mobility services

1:40:56That fair strategy is now what we operate under and it will be coming back in a few years. Um as part of our our um

1:41:04Our standard process of reviewing the fair strategy

1:41:06But at this point in time it is not on staff's work plan to do an immediate revisiting of that unless we get alternate direction from council tonight

1:41:15So i'm just going to jump in one more time

1:41:18I really feel like your questions just like I said the aac

1:41:22On their other issues are valid and I want to validate your questions

1:41:26But they come after

1:41:28Just the question in front of us

1:41:31Do they do they deserve the 39 500 out of the account?

1:41:37That's it. We can talk about mobility services fairs

1:41:41We can talk about mobility bus other options and programs. We'll do it right after this like literally right after this

1:41:48I want us to concentrate. Please

1:41:50procedurally on just the matter at hand

1:41:53So i'm validating your questions. I want you to sort of if you could i'm going to make a decision here

1:41:57I'd like you to park them and bring them up again

1:42:00Because the question here is just to validate whether or not

1:42:03They deserve the 39 500 for a policy that was established seven years ago and the money's been collected

1:42:11Is that okay?

1:42:12Yeah, and i'm still struggling with the value for money

1:42:16I guess is you know, I've heard about the number of rides

1:42:19And then I've heard from dco clack bush that some go through the portal and some don't so i'm trying to tease this out

1:42:25You're asking for money and i'm not sure i'm not convinced

1:42:30What it is what's the value for money there? So I will stop and i'll i'll ask further. Okay. Thank you

1:42:36um

1:42:38The just supposed of that would be what is the value if a van comes off the road and now we have five instead of six

1:42:44That's literally the reality

1:42:46So, um, who's next caller and please everybody counsel just concentrate on this one and then happy to move to other issues, okay?

1:42:54Thank you to your worship

1:42:56Well, thank you so much for your presentation. Um, just to be totally clear. So you're asking for

1:43:01Almost 40 000 from the city and then you would be putting the other

1:43:0640 50 60 to purchase the van is that correct?

1:43:12Thank you for that. We will be purchasing the van at 39 five is to send it away to get it converted

1:43:17So we can get wheelchairs into the back of it. Okay. Okay. Thank you and um, you mentioned that thank you for sending that additional

1:43:24uh

1:43:25The letter to us that showed how many mobility calls you get in a day and I think that was yesterday

1:43:32Is that your typical day or does it flow a lot?

1:43:38So

1:43:39uh, we making a sheet for tomorrow like every ahead up a day

1:43:44So we make it on time for people. They go into the medical appointments

1:43:48so that was the

1:43:51The sheet that was shared with you was April the 22nd

1:43:55And this is like at that sheet probably we have 32 calls

1:43:59The one that is for tomorrow the dispatcher just sent it to me

1:44:03And I rented out to tomorrow. We have 35 calls out of the 35 calls five of them are going out of town

1:44:10So the first one like okay 4 30 going to make master that is a wait and return

1:44:15So one way one way and we'll be out for the for the whole day

1:44:19The second one from st. Joseph to London

1:44:22That's one of the reasons for medical appointment

1:44:2531 night o'clock from st. Joseph to

1:44:2810

1:44:29state

1:44:30West welwich that would be also probably out for almost four four five hours

1:44:36And then we have a 41 Broadway north state Wellington going coming to gulf and then we had to take him back

1:44:44So it's a constant struggle

1:44:46And we have to put a lot of resources how to micromanage it

1:44:50Like a one-way and okay like today we have almost four calls from st. Joseph

1:44:55Two of them went to grain river and two to want to st. Mary and went to Cambridge

1:45:00So they asked for wait and return me like they're keeping the van there when they finish with their medical appointment

1:45:05Then we have to bring them back. So

1:45:07We advise the driver

1:45:09Not to wait come back service the in town calls

1:45:13And when they're ready they will call for return and we go so that's how we managing it with the five wins

1:45:18So in total we have been operating with the sixth fan

1:45:23Since that one when it's down

1:45:25It's constant struggle. Okay, and therefore we did not get the funding. It means that's for sure. That's count. That would be

1:45:32Okay, okay

1:45:33Thank you for helping me stand at the volume all that you see and

1:45:36So that I've been under you mentioned that sometimes you were not able to meet the demand

1:45:41So so you could likely use another vehicle

1:45:43How often are you telling people that you're not able to pick them up because there's no vehicles available?

1:45:49So most of the people

1:45:51um

1:45:52They've been using us for a long time. We don't turn them away, but we being honest to them

1:45:57Okay, it's going to be a one hour. We try to squeeze them

1:46:00So if we have to pick someone from st. Joseph hospital

1:46:04And we have another booking like okay nine o'clock the second one is nine fifteen

1:46:09So we try to squeeze them we send the

1:46:13They're getting this page fifteen minutes ahead of our time. So if the customer is ready

1:46:18So they get picked up early and then they have that five minute

1:46:22To come back and you know service the

1:46:25The one that calls in

1:46:27Okay, okay. No, that's really helpful to understand that you're you're at full capacity and you need this

1:46:32Uh vehicle to be able to service go residents

1:46:35Yes, and there is a need for more

1:46:37Yeah, like a sex vehicle is not enough. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you worship. Thank you Gibson and then Richardson

1:46:45And then alt

1:46:46Thank you. Sorry, mr. Mayor. My questions actually were just to fall with uh council boost till two

1:46:52I'll miss uh, collect bush. So I'll pause and wait for that time. I'm sorry. I thought that we were engaged in staff

1:46:58I can wait

1:46:59Okay, I'll come back to you

1:47:00Uh, just to the delegates and just remember everyone

1:47:02I mean they're important because they're the ones asking for the money so fair enough

1:47:05But we have other delegates too that that want to speak. So let's just make sure we're moving along

1:47:09Richardson, please then alt

1:47:11Thank you and through you mr. Mayor to the delegates

1:47:14Thank you for clarifying that the money that you're requesting is strictly only for the customization of a van to make it accessible

1:47:21And would I be would it be a fair understanding of mine to assume that as you've done your long-term planning and you're planning for your fleet

1:47:29Replacement that you budgeted and made your plan based on knowing that this funding was available in order to customize that

1:47:36Vehicle

1:47:38Yes, that is correct. Okay. Thank you

1:47:41Thank you and alt please

1:47:43And then kate in uh, my apologies. Mayor Guthrie. My questions are for staff

1:47:48Sounds good. Uh, kate in please

1:47:52You, uh, mr. Mayor

1:47:54I was just wondering were were you aware of the enabling accessibility fund federally?

1:48:02so that um

1:48:04for profit businesses can apply for

1:48:07Funding from the federal government for grants to to help things like your business. I think it's a great business

1:48:13I'm glad you're doing it. I was just wondering were you aware of that fund?

1:48:21Uh, they indicated that they weren't aware. Okay, so my

1:48:26Question is more just a comment. So there's a fund and it will be open again in may you can sorry

1:48:33I'm still sorry. I just want to keep procedure. Tell tell that comment later. We're just at questions right now

1:48:38Okay, it was just to the delegates. So I wasn't sure if they would

1:48:42Get the comments later

1:48:43No, but they'll probably be waiting around and they can hear it

1:48:46So you can even say it later if you want you can re re re come back to that that comment

1:48:50Okay, um

1:48:55Okay, is there any other questions or can I move on?

1:48:58All right. Thank you very much for being here. We appreciate it. We'll move on to the next delegation. Okay. Thank you

1:49:05Uh, who is next? Okay, Lorelai root is going to join us by virtual

1:49:11And so we'll just wait for her to jump on the screen

1:49:17Can you speak for me Lorelai so we can hear you?

1:49:20Yes, hello

1:49:22Yep, we can both see and hear you. Thank you very much for coming

1:49:26And I don't know if you heard me earlier, but yes

1:49:28If there's a little bit of a stretch of time for you to make your delegation fully understand that and

1:49:35You know, hopefully it won't continue on and on but I want to respect that

1:49:38So, uh, I'll turn it over to you. It's no more than five but with a little bit of bump to accommodate. Okay. Go right ahead

1:49:44Thank you. I appreciate that

1:49:46Um, thank you everyone for allowing me to speak here today. My name is Lorelai root

1:49:51I'm the former chair of the accessibility advisory committee

1:49:54I am one of the members who was uh, that the mayor earlier referred to the original group who approved this budget back in 2018 so

1:50:03Um, and I'm a disabled member of the city who's a part-time wheelchair user and when I'm using my wheelchair

1:50:09I actually exclusively rely on red top taxi

1:50:12Um to get around the city to my knowledge. They are the only cab company that has accessible cabs for wheelchair users

1:50:20So I'm very very heavily invested in making sure that there's maximum access possible to wheelchair accessible cabs in this city

1:50:28So if all of that is true, which it is, um, you have to ask yourself

1:50:32Why did I along with the entirety of the accessibility advisory committee unanimously vote against this request from red top taxi last week?

1:50:40For that to be true, there would have to be some sort of missing puzzle piece because it doesn't make a lot of sense

1:50:46And there is there is a missing puzzle piece earlier in this meeting

1:50:50The mayor referred to the original tent for intent for this budget

1:50:54And the aac who originally approved it a group I was part of and said it's as planned as day and that's it

1:51:00But that is not it. Um last week the aac was asked by staff to weigh in on this item at our meeting

1:51:07And we did pass a motion, um, which I'm surprised

1:51:10Uh, I think I'm actually I'm disappointed to see that they decided not to attach that to the report

1:51:15That they submitted to all of you

1:51:17I believe that oversight is

1:51:19Maybe due to the fact that this was added to the agenda kind of at the last second which unfortunately also makes for

1:51:25Much more engagement on this topic than I think the city should be aiming for

1:51:29Because I know a lot of members of the community that care a lot about this and feel very strongly

1:51:33Weren't given enough time to sign up as delegates, unfortunately

1:51:37But whatever the reason, um some vital information and context about this issue are missing which I would like to provide

1:51:42And I would also like to provide the motion from that meeting

1:51:46so as the mayor and Colleen Clapp wash both mentioned in 2018 when this budget was created the aac was approached by the city to weigh in on its use and

1:51:58At that time the aac actually put forward a motion to use it to fund also something called the taxi script program, which I noticed was not

1:52:05included in the report

1:52:07But it basically just offers subsidized cab rides to disabled community members

1:52:12Who face higher than normal cab fares due to our disability?

1:52:15And in recent years the aac was made aware that access to that program is incredibly limited

1:52:21Especially to members of the unhoused community

1:52:23But it's so limited to the point that even I as the chair of the aac who have been told by staff repeatedly that I

1:52:30definitely

1:52:33Like what is the word i'm looking for sorry

1:52:36I as the chair of the aac who definitely should be able to apply for this have been unable to

1:52:43Finish the application myself just due to the the excessive barriers included in applying for the program

1:52:48So due to these barriers, um, we've repeatedly asked for a review of the application process for mobility transit and the taxi script program

1:52:56And for months that request has gone unanswered by the city and we've been told we will get to this eventually

1:53:02Uh, we've looked at comparator municipalities and you are right. We agree the application process is comparatively

1:53:08Disproportionate and we will get to it at some point

1:53:11And then along comes a request from this private for-profit company to use those same funds to modify a taxi

1:53:16Which they will then turn around and charge the disabled community to use

1:53:20And as i've already outlined disabled people paying more than non-disabled people do to use cabs in the city

1:53:25And so we currently and also we currently can't even access the program that is meant to subsidize those cab rides and help offset that cost

1:53:35And somehow that request has been pushed through at break mid break next speed

1:53:39um, so i'm just going to read the uh the

1:53:43Motion that was passed by the accessibility advisory committee a few days ago

1:53:47It says the accessibility advisory committee does not support this request from red top taxi to use these funds intended for the taxi script program

1:53:55To purchase or modify an accessible taxi at this time

1:53:59This budget is meant to subsidize transportation access for disabled residents not to fund capital costs for a private

1:54:05for-profit company that will charge full fare to the disabled community for those services

1:54:10The aac has already called for a review of the taxi script and mobility transit application processes due to significant barriers to accessing both programs

1:54:18And until those issues are resolved we do not believe it is appropriate to consider new funding requests related to this budget

1:54:25When staff initially heard sorry, that's the whole motion

1:54:29When staff initially heard our concerns about this application process for mobility transit and taxi scripts

1:54:35They did agree with us. They said that the application process is incredibly more complicated and invasive and barrier ridden than the processes of comparator municipalities

1:54:44The application for mobility transit is longer than a passport application

1:54:48It asks invasive and ableist questions uses outdated measures for disability

1:54:53And has a final page where the applicant is required to sign over the entirety of all of their medical files to the city of gulf's transit staff

1:55:02Anyways, so to me a lot of what I outlined here tonight is representative of a larger issue of poor communication between the aac staff and council

1:55:09And is a prime example of why myself and so many other members

1:55:13Resigned from the committee in protest of the way we've been overlooked just a few days ago. I appreciate you carrying me up today. Thank you

1:55:21Thank you so much for your delegation. Is there a follow-up question?

1:55:26alt

1:55:28Thank you very much mayor guthrian and I appreciate that

1:55:33Ms. Root is before us and has

1:55:35Done um, yeoman's uh, yeoman's work on the aac in the past. Uh, sorry to see you go

1:55:42Um, I I do have a couple of questions that come from the report on page two of the report under collected funds

1:55:50Uh, the line that causes me concern and I'm going to ask staff for an interpretation as well

1:55:56These funds are collected monthly and provided to the accessibility advisory committee to be used in a grant program

1:56:04For those needing accessibility modifications to their vehicles including taxi cabs

1:56:10Now there's two things about that. Uh, it says it's provided to the accessibility advisory committee

1:56:17And then there is the issue of modifications to vehicles and taxi cabs

1:56:22Could you please explain to me what that means to you because this is an important governance issue to me

1:56:29Yes, um through you may I got three to councillor Allt. I am confused by that line myself

1:56:35I have since 2018 been told that the reason that we collect those funds from the uber and lyft rides is

1:56:41To have access to solve mobility related problems and every year we come back to the budget and say we have a little bit more

1:56:49How would we like to change the taxi script program? We've never before heard a mention of

1:56:54modifications for cabs

1:56:56even up to the

1:56:58Executive planning meeting where we wrote the agenda for this last accessibility advisory committee meeting

1:57:03I asked for clarification again on the budget and its intended purpose

1:57:07And I was never told that it had anything to do with modifying cabs

1:57:10I have only ever known it to be for the taxi script program

1:57:14So whether that's a miscommunication between staff and the aac or whether it's a line that's been left out of this staff report

1:57:20I can't answer that for you. I'm sorry

1:57:23But I'm wondering if you can't answer provided to the accessibility advisory committee

1:57:29That's a significant point for me

1:57:33Yes, thank you. We've always been told and again, we clarified this just this past week as well

1:57:39We have always been told that it was up to us whether or not this these requests get approved

1:57:43And that this is basically the only budget that exists in the city of guelph that is the accessibility advisory committees to completely oversee

1:57:51and because the accessibility advisory committee was so

1:57:54involved in its creation and

1:57:56Um, and in the conversation around should we have ride share programs that don't have accessible

1:58:02Ride options in guelph if so, what should we have them do to offset that?

1:58:07And this was the solution that was come to in the working group with the accessibility advisory committee at that time

1:58:13So to my understanding

1:58:15I have always been told that it was our decision

1:58:18So I was surprised to see this but I do I do trust counsel to make a good decision on it personally

1:58:24I'm saying our I'm not a part of the accessibility advisory committee anymore. So I'm not sure how much I can even speak to this but

1:58:30um

1:58:32Thank you. Um, I I'm asking you as somebody who has passed experience

1:58:36I do have one other question for you and again, I will ask both of these to staff as well

1:58:42Within the report. It says that there is a duty to consult under the municipal

1:58:47responsibility under a

1:58:48Oda

1:58:49I'm wondering if you could explain to me what that means that there is the responsibility to

1:58:56consult

1:58:57I consult is the keyword there

1:59:00Um, I do know that legally the city did have to come and run this by us before it could be

1:59:06brought any further because under the a Oda

1:59:09transit is one of the areas that the accessibility advisory committee does have to be consulted although

1:59:15I'm not sure whether that means our

1:59:17Feedback and motions have to actually be passed on to council or not because it doesn't look like our motions or feedback from this past

1:59:23Meeting were passed on to council unless it happens not attached to the meeting agenda

1:59:28But I haven't seen anywhere that that we were included. Um, so our feedback was heard by

1:59:35We heard delegate we heard the same delegates that you just heard at the aac

1:59:39And we said to them, you know, we would we would love you to come back at some point when these other issues have been resolved

1:59:45but right now it's just a no for now, but uh

1:59:50Yeah, I'm not entirely sure what the scope of the responsibility is there either legally

1:59:56Okay, so, uh, the advisory committee of council staff report

2:00:02Is is the this is coming to us as the title is advisory committee of council staff report

2:00:08So this report are you suggesting did or did not come from the uh, the aac?

2:00:15Um, I the the motion that I just read you is the only feedback the aac provided

2:00:21So when I looked over the agenda and the attached items, there was no mention in there

2:00:25It looked like it was all information coming just from staff of those staff's opinions

2:00:29It didn't reflect our opinions from that meeting at all

2:00:32Okay, unless there's a different document that i'm not seeing

2:00:35I didn't see the aac's feedback at all reflected in that document. All right. I said I will ask staff the same questions

2:00:42Thank you very much for your service in the past. Wishing you're the best

2:00:46Thank you

2:00:49Thank you

2:00:51Uh, I think it's kate and and then busatil and then that's it

2:00:56go ahead

2:00:58Thank you through you mr. Mayor um

2:01:01can you uh explain a little bit more you'd mentioned that it costs more for um

2:01:07wheelchair users and uh people who need to use the mobility taxis

2:01:12More than other folks. Can you explain that a little bit more?

2:01:16Um, yes through you mr. Guthrie to counselor katin. Um

2:01:22There are a number of reasons that disabled people pay more when taking a cab one of them is

2:01:27uh, well the the most prevalent and the the most costly I believe is wheelchair users being loaded into mobility mobility fans

2:01:36We have been made aware by redtop taxi that it is technically not their procedure

2:01:41But I can attest that every single time I've taken a taxi cab by redtop

2:01:45And additionally the reason we initially brought up the taxi script program was because

2:01:51When a person on a wheelchair is picked up by redtop taxi the meter starts running

2:01:56And then they are loaded into the car and it takes quite a few minutes and they're secured and everything

2:02:01And then they're dropped off they're let off

2:02:03Which also takes a few extra minutes and the meter is running that whole time

2:02:06We have been told that that is not technically redtop taxis policy

2:02:10But the lived experience of all of the users at the aac has been that that is what happens every time myself included

2:02:17Um, additionally, there are people who have spinal injuries for example and need to take longer routes to get places due to speed bumps

2:02:24Um, so they end up paying more to get to where they're going

2:02:27There are people who may need to be picked up right at the door or helped to the door by the driver

2:02:33Maybe blind or low vision people for example who can't be dropped off right at the door and need someone to help them get to their

2:02:39Destination and the meter will run during that time as well

2:02:41There are people who use speech to text and or sorry text to speech devices to communicate and

2:02:48The time that it takes them to sit there and type about like their payment method or any other things that they have to communicate to the driver

2:02:54The meter is running during that time

2:02:56so

2:02:58Abrides for disabled people have an inherent like so-called disability tax

2:03:05Um, thank you through the mayor to the delegate

2:03:09If there were a I don't know if this is

2:03:13Possible because I'll be asking staff after this if there are a way to

2:03:18ensure that

2:03:19The meter was only ever running while the

2:03:23ride was occurring for

2:03:25to

2:03:26increase the

2:03:27equity between the two user groups

2:03:32as a part of

2:03:34this payment

2:03:35Would that be something

2:03:37as a mobility

2:03:38rider that would be

2:03:41acceptable to you

2:03:43I don't think it would solve the problem because there are still for example people who have to be dropped off maybe

2:03:49Um a round back or a different place than other people could be dropped off

2:03:53There are people who may have to take a longer route to get somewhere and say please

2:03:57Avoid these streets and these streets because the speed bumps will hurt a spinal cord injury

2:04:01And then their ride gets more expensive. So it wouldn't solve the problem

2:04:05And i'm not sure how

2:04:07For example blind and low vision people would be able to verify that the meter actually wasn't running or people like me who are

2:04:13Loaded into the back of the cab. I can't see if the meter is running or not all of the time

2:04:17Sometimes I can but sometimes I can't so

2:04:20Like during the ride

2:04:23Great. Thank you so much

2:04:25Okay, I just would like to say out loud. I felt a little bit uncomfortable about some of the answer there about

2:04:31allegations that a company may be running a meter or

2:04:35Not providing integrity in the services that they are providing for people. I just I just want to state that out loud

2:04:42Um that I just felt a little bit uncomfortable with that and I just want everyone both questions and answers to please

2:04:47Respect the work that a company in our city is is is doing as we engage on this topic, please

2:04:53Um, let's see who is next busitil. I'm sorry your last go ahead. Thank you and through the mayor

2:04:59Thank you Lorelai for your

2:05:01Delegation it was something I think you uh responded to in your question to councillor Allt

2:05:07I think you said something like, you know, you reviewed this around the budget. Can you help me understand?

2:05:13Does this program come to the aac for review each year as part of a budget process?

2:05:20Uh the taxiscript. Oh, sorry through you mayor Guthrie to councillor busitil. Yes, the taxiscript program does

2:05:26This budget does get reviewed once a year by the aac

2:05:30Every year that I have been on the accessibility advisory committee

2:05:33The discussion has been wow. There's a lot of extra money left in the budget right now

2:05:38We should increase access to taxiscripts until a couple of years ago when we realized wait the reason that people aren't buying these taxiscripts

2:05:45Is because nobody can get approved because nobody can complete the application

2:05:49Um, so that's when we started realizing that there needed to be an overhaul of the the whole system

2:05:54But yes, this this budget has been discussed at the aac once a year lienne warren will bring it to the aac

2:06:01I've never discussed

2:06:03Any changes to taxicabs before though

2:06:08Thank you and just one further clarification. So you see this budget as taxiscript and

2:06:15Uh, the modification to vehicles is one budget. Okay. Thank you. Yes, and and I do think both are important

2:06:23I do think that the aac would agree that we need more accessible cabs in the city

2:06:28It's just that there is a really glaring barrier right now that has not yet been removed

2:06:32And that's the main reason that we're aware of for the budget

2:06:35So, um, it's not that we don't want there to be more accessible cabs. I very badly want there to be

2:06:43Great

2:06:45Thank you, loralei. Thank you very much for joining us and for your delegation and answering questions. Okay

2:06:49Thank you. Thank you

2:06:51Okay, next up is

2:06:54Uh, sarah matheson

2:06:57Is sarah here? Yep

2:07:01Yep, I see it take your time

2:07:10And then an order is going to be on video. It was going to be coming up next. Okay

2:07:26Thank you. Would someone be able just to uh to help with the uh using the button the white button there to move the uh

2:07:34To move the podium down

2:07:37Thank you

2:07:47And sorry, sir. I I know I saw you earlier. I just didn't have my glasses on so I didn't I couldn't see past there

2:07:52So I'm sorry. I knew you were here

2:07:55Thank you for coming. Thank you. I appreciate the five minute as well. Yes. I am. Thank you great start whenever you want. Okay

2:08:04Okay, good evening everybody. Thank you for this opportunity to

2:08:09address this really important issue to me. Um, I came to gulf

2:08:1415 years ago and I was greeted by

2:08:17A taxi at the airport and it was a red top taxi

2:08:21and since that time I've never

2:08:24ever been charged for uh

2:08:27time that uh

2:08:29I'm unloaded or unloaded in the taxi. That's just a fact and I'm totally comfortable sharing that

2:08:37um

2:08:38I'm very much in support of

2:08:41red top receiving funds

2:08:45To uh

2:08:47To create yet another taxi because

2:08:51It's been very difficult, especially in the winter

2:08:54for me to have access

2:08:57to the

2:08:59the facilities here in the city

2:09:01and

2:09:02slightly outside of the city

2:09:04um

2:09:05through transit

2:09:07and and red top

2:09:09They're just really really busy, especially

2:09:13in our snowy winters

2:09:15um

2:09:16I'd like very much to see uh

2:09:19One or two taxis added to their

2:09:23to their fleet at this time because

2:09:25It's been a long time coming. I was sitting on the accessibility advisory committee

2:09:32when

2:09:33what was decided

2:09:35that we would be

2:09:37receiving a stipend from

2:09:39the taxi companies

2:09:41who began serving in Guelph

2:09:44because they weren't going to be able to serve the disabled community

2:09:49um

2:09:50So I left the committee at that time

2:09:53uh feeling really pleased that uh

2:09:57that

2:09:58That this was going to be a possibility. That was um

2:10:02That was 2018

2:10:05um

2:10:09So of course what I've come here to say is that

2:10:12I am very much in support of this

2:10:15um, it's a very important service

2:10:18um

2:10:19There are many misconceptions in our community about what the different services are

2:10:26and uh

2:10:27I think that

2:10:29More education about that would be really helpful for everyone involved

2:10:37And I think that uh

2:10:40That's all I have to share at the moment

2:10:43Well, thank you, uh, Sarah for your delegation as well. And let me just look to my colleagues if there's any follow-up questions for you

2:10:49Um, there isn't thank you for waiting around for this and thank you. Thank you for your service uh previous on the committee as well

2:10:56We thank you

2:10:58Okay, uh an ordinal Cameron is going to join us by video and then morgan I do I can see you barely

2:11:03But I can see you in the front row there. You're in the wings. So an ordinal is going to join us by video

2:11:20And an ordinal I I just want to make sure you yep, you just beat me to the punch

2:11:24So yet there's your there's your camera and can you just test your mic for me? Hello

2:11:28Yep, you're coming through great. Thank you very much for joining us and I'll turn it over to you whenever you're ready

2:11:35Hello, um, my name is an ordinal Cameron. My pronouns are they them

2:11:41I am a lifelong disability advocate and resident of Guelph

2:11:47Uh, last week I resigned in protest from my position as vice chair from the accessibility advisory committee

2:11:56Um, I'm here today to talk uh some about

2:12:01this decision

2:12:03um, so we

2:12:05voted

2:12:07uh not to turn down the

2:12:11um

2:12:13modification of the van

2:12:16permanently but to

2:12:18not at this time

2:12:20As Lorelai said earlier

2:12:23We had been told reprie repeatedly and frequently by city staff that the budget was first and foremost for the taxi script

2:12:31program

2:12:33And with many people being unable to use it

2:12:36It just didn't seem right for us to be taking from a budget

2:12:44That wasn't being used to its full potential at the time

2:12:49So we voted to try to

2:12:53Are voted to say that the budget should be left for the taxi script program once

2:12:58The issues with that were resolved if there was money left over we would be happy to consider

2:13:04um

2:13:05funding for modifying the cap

2:13:08But not until then

2:13:10um

2:13:20so

2:13:21There I believe if you go back and check the videos of the aac meetings

2:13:28um

2:13:30You'll be able to see clips

2:13:32Where it is actually mentioned that the budget in question does tie to the taxi script program

2:13:43and

2:13:44some of these miscommunications

2:13:47um

2:13:49Like at the top of the meeting and in the presentation here

2:13:53are part of the reason that

2:13:56uh volunteering with the aac became so stressful and I was

2:14:01Found myself needing to resign

2:14:07so

2:14:08I would ask

2:14:10That when you go to vote today, please

2:14:14listen to us listen to

2:14:16our

2:14:18lived experience and expertise

2:14:21The disabled community so often feels that our voices

2:14:26don't matter

2:14:28so

2:14:29please

2:14:30Listen to us and prove that notion wrong

2:14:36Thank you. Thank you very much. I just want to confirm you're done your delegation. I can see if there's any questions

2:14:46Okay, thank you. Thank you in order. Let me just see if there's any questions

2:14:50Uh, there is not so thank you for joining us today

2:14:54Uh, morgan dandy. I think uh you are next

2:14:58Yep, and then morgan ash is is hi morgan. You're you're gonna be up next okay?

2:15:22And welcome morgan take your time and whatever you're ready the the clock will start there for you. Okay

2:15:27Uh clerks if you could just make sure the microphone's on

2:15:36mayor, i'm sorry, um

2:15:39I'm gonna take a second setting up because my computer has um

2:15:46Accidentally been impacted

2:15:49By some stuff and there is a large section

2:15:54That is just gobbledygook. I just have to get through it delete it. So I've got my words

2:15:58That's no problem. How about we go to moraine next and then you know, i'm i'm done. I'm done. Oh, you're good. Okay. Yeah, okay

2:16:04It just was a matter of I wanted you to be aware. Yeah. Yeah, no, that's okay. Yeah

2:16:10So good good evening and my hope is this discussion is at least as involved as the conversation about trees

2:16:16I was excited for the opportunity to submit my application for a couple of the advisory committees of council following the review

2:16:26Until I watched the last meeting of the aac the voice of the disabled community

2:16:32It is a fact that for the vast majority of people disability is not a question of if

2:16:38I'm sorry morgan. I'm sorry. I did indicate at the beginning

2:16:42That the delegates with our procedural by-law can only address council and I'm speaking to disability, sir

2:16:49Okay, just one second. Please don't interrupt me as the chair. Let me just finish we can be respectful as we talk back and forth

2:16:55and your your time's not being

2:16:57Allotted here. It's all good

2:17:00A delegate may only address council

2:17:02With respect to the item that is on the agenda that they are registered to speak to

2:17:07So I don't need to and none of us need to hear anything else other than the item

2:17:11Which is around the amount of money that is going to be requested

2:17:16From red top taxi

2:17:18From the account that was set up

2:17:20That's the only focus and that we need to have and I and I actually hate that I had to interrupt you

2:17:25It it bothers me

2:17:26But as the chair I have to uphold the procedural by-law that all of council voted on

2:17:31So we're going to start your time all over again

2:17:34And I want you to take take your time to start if you wish

2:17:36But please be prepared for your delegation to make sure you're adhering to what the topic is at hand. Okay

2:17:41So clerks if you can make sure you start the time over. Thank you

2:17:46The item before us today was not supported by the AAC for a very good reason

2:17:51There's an upcoming review of the AAC account and the use of the funds collected through the program scheduled in

2:17:572026 and the AAC wants those funds to be used to the best benefit of the disability of people

2:18:09Disability is not a question of if but when

2:18:12Whether it's a temporary disability like when I had a tibial plateau fracture

2:18:17Or a permanent disability like the yet to be diagnosed condition making me have to sit today

2:18:23During their delegation to the AAC

2:18:25The representatives from red top stated they have an average of 46 rights per day

2:18:30With six vehicles that is approximately eight trips per vehicle per 24 hour period

2:18:37With trips per vehicle

2:18:43Does it seem unreasonable to have each vehicle do one more one additional trip for 24 hours for a period of time?

2:18:52Additionally

2:18:53ODSP is also a user of red top as a provider for medically necessary trips

2:18:59I was grateful to have the service to take me to university health network in Toronto

2:19:04So I question why the AAC is the only group being asked to provide the subsidy

2:19:12Given that the review of the AAC account and the use of those funds is scheduled for next year

2:19:17I agree with the AAC that the request from red chop not be supported

2:19:24I understand the way the bylaw is written provides for the fitting of vehicles including taxi cabs

2:19:29And I understand that the AAC membership would like to understand if the funds are being put to their best use

2:19:35Before agreeing to the request from red top

2:19:40at this time

2:19:41handing nearly $40,000 to a for-profit business for five trip differential per 24 hours

2:19:47Seems a poor use of funds until such time as the 2026 review has been completed

2:19:54And it can be confirmed. This is a good use of the funds provided to the AAC for the benefit of the disabled community

2:20:03Honoring the requests of the AAC on the behalf of the wider disabled community is important

2:20:11Because nothing about us should be decided without us

2:20:18Thank you, Morgan. Let me just see if there's a follow-up question for you

2:20:24There

2:20:26There is not. Thank you very much

2:20:29And Maureen come on come on down if you're ready and Maureen's our last

2:20:50Okay, welcome Maureen and whenever you're ready to the clock will start. Okay. Thank you. Of course. It's not cooperating now

2:21:11Okay, thank you

2:21:22So I was wondering about

2:21:24This question being so presented as so black and white

2:21:29Yes or no and why that would have to be decided

2:21:33In this moment

2:21:35I think that it's interesting to me having heard all of the in the previous delegates as well as

2:21:42um, hearing some other information that I have

2:21:47In the community I work as a volunteer within the community

2:21:51especially in the downtown

2:21:53um, and I also have mobility issues myself

2:21:57Not to the set not yet to the stage where I would require a mobility taxi yet

2:22:05But there are many people like me

2:22:07That are on their way to that potential

2:22:10So I'm just wanting to make it clear that we are we're having a an aging population. So I understand

2:22:17wanting to have a

2:22:20another mobility unit within red top taxis

2:22:26um fleet

2:22:27And I understand that they are the only ones that provide that in the city of Guelph

2:22:33My issue is that as a citizen

2:22:37Is

2:22:39There a for-profit company

2:22:41um, and the money that was gathered from the

2:22:45Uber situation

2:22:47was for public use

2:22:50And so I understand that they want some support in getting their

2:22:55um, their van

2:22:58Modified, but I don't understand why that would be their responsibility

2:23:03With this particular fund

2:23:05So I'm just asking you to talk

2:23:08Talk to me about or at least make it

2:23:11I'm trying to make it on some sort of sense of why a for-profit business

2:23:17wouldn't do this

2:23:19on their own

2:23:21Because it's a good business decision

2:23:24to have that uh to have modified. Um, they have all of the all of the business of the disability community

2:23:32um, and they have

2:23:36And they have exclusive

2:23:39Exclusive use of that of their vans for the disability community

2:23:44Especially in wheelchairs

2:23:46So I'm wondering why it wouldn't just be a good business decision to ensure that they had the funds set aside to do that

2:23:53So that they could continue to provide that service

2:23:56That's one of my situations my um misunderstandings about the situation the funds in question

2:24:02Were you were utilized or were gathered for the purpose?

2:24:07um

2:24:08of

2:24:09You know because it was a ride share program uber and the funds were gathered in order for

2:24:16That to be utilized with the diverse needs of the disability community

2:24:20So these taxis help people in wheelchairs

2:24:24And they are and it's a benefit absolutely and it's probably something that should happen

2:24:30um

2:24:32You know forthwith

2:24:33but not

2:24:35from the

2:24:36origins of this particular fund because my understanding is that it was for

2:24:40uh public purpose as opposed to

2:24:43for

2:24:45Private or for profit purpose

2:24:47That these funds were gathered they wanted to support

2:24:51The people who need it the most the most vulnerable people in our community

2:24:55So the people that aren't able to access it

2:24:58Are the ones that the taxis strip program specifically

2:25:03Are the ones that need it the most they need to be able to access the

2:25:07The cabs um and I have to even though we're not supposed to talk to any of these other situations

2:25:13I do believe that we have a lot of vulnerable people who have been

2:25:18pushed out to the margins of the city and who

2:25:22In order to access the supports that they require in downtown

2:25:26need to access that program and be able to take

2:25:31Taxis or take transit and if they need mobility transit

2:25:36How do they get mobility transit?

2:25:38And if they can't get mobility transit, how do they access the taxi script program?

2:25:45um

2:25:46The barriers are the things that bother me the most around having to be able to

2:25:51Presupp provide all that information

2:25:54That they would have to provide that they would have to fill out a form. That's

2:26:00massive

2:26:01um and access a doctor to help them with that

2:26:04in order for them to be able to

2:26:07even access that program and you have to have a doctor

2:26:11And you have to have a little bit of money in order to be able to

2:26:15Get those things happening

2:26:18They could I know I'm going to run out of time

2:26:21They could have

2:26:23They could have a lot more access to

2:26:27Just access to

2:26:29To those calves and to any of the calves and I'm not sure

2:26:33I I understand. I'll have to stop you there. Sorry. I just I was just trying to understand that why red top taxi was the choice

2:26:40But I understand that now from what I know. Yeah, no problem. Yeah, kind of a default

2:26:44Okay, yeah, just a little I was a little worried about the optics there when you have other. Yeah, no problem. Thank you

2:26:50Thank you for your delegation

2:26:53So, uh, is there a follow-up question for this delegate at all?

2:26:57Guller, please

2:26:59Thank you through your worship. Thank you for your presentation. Um, I um

2:27:05In what I read and what I've heard from

2:27:08Red Top, they've

2:27:11As I understand it

2:27:13They don't actually generate enough revenue to build up the capital for for the van

2:27:18So that what what I hear them tell us is that unless the city puts forward these 40 000 dollars

2:27:24They cannot afford to replace it with the cost to operate it

2:27:29So with that information and knowing that on their own as a business

2:27:34They're not generating enough revenue to replace the vans. Would that change your your position on on the support of?

2:27:43and the other part of this I also had the question of

2:27:46um

2:27:47There's 288 000 dollars in this in this fund if we give 40 000 dollars to red

2:27:55Cab today reds up today. They're still going to be

2:27:59You know over 200 for the taxiscript and and to me you feel that you know, we're

2:28:08Well, but but my sorry bounce about I gotta correct you on two things

2:28:11First one is no, I'm gonna crush on two things because I think you're I think you're out of out of

2:28:15Procedure here. You're talking about a separate issue which we will get to

2:28:19And there was 330 000 dollars in the account. Thank you the 39 500 that's being requested will bring it down to the 288

2:28:26Just want to make sure everyone is hearing the right data. You still have the floor

2:28:31So with that information how much money's on the account left for the taxiscript and that

2:28:36They would not otherwise be able to would that change your position on this?

2:28:40I'm not entirely sure that it would and I think that the the issue is not

2:28:45it's

2:28:46It's that the people that are the most in need of

2:28:50They're not all wheelchair

2:28:53Users so it's not about having access to that necessarily that wheelchair trans van

2:29:01Or wheel you know, you can't get you can't get approval for mobility

2:29:07Transit and then if you don't get that you can't access this grip print program

2:29:13And I think that those barriers are what most people are worried about in the community

2:29:19And you have to have an address and you have to have a doctor and those things

2:29:22That's why I'm I'm mentioning those things in order to access the the uh the program as it is

2:29:29And I think when people have been

2:29:31Have been asked to review it and they they have to review it down the road

2:29:37Um, but they're not doing it right now and we're making a decision right now

2:29:41Why are we making this decision so quickly?

2:29:44When

2:29:45There could be other things that happen first before the decision is made. Okay. Okay. I appreciate that that makes sense

2:29:52Thank you so much. Thank you worship

2:29:56All right. Thanks everybody. So, um, I think it would be apt at this point. Thank you to all the delegates

2:30:04Our staff have heard

2:30:06What I said

2:30:08And our staff have heard what

2:30:10Our delegates have said

2:30:13staff

2:30:15Over to you

2:30:17Who would it be?

2:30:19Okay, cao clackbush. I would I think

2:30:22I think we need staff

2:30:25to qualify verify

2:30:28clarify

2:30:29and

2:30:30Speak into what's been said so that we are all foundationally on the same page

2:30:37So that we can make a decision moving forward on just

2:30:41What's going to be put on the screen in a moment?

2:30:44CA o clock CA o clock. So thank you deputy CA o clock. Sorry about that Tara. Thank you

2:30:51So there's a number of things that I won't comment on at this moment because I understand and respect the mayor that

2:30:57We're going to focus on this item

2:30:59There are certainly other things that have been said

2:31:01Related to transit and mobility services that when we get to I'd like the opportunity to comment on but on the specific

2:31:06Item before you related to red top taxi. I just want to make sure that I'm very clear because I do

2:31:13Yep

2:31:13Sorry

2:31:15Um, I want to be very very clear about what is

2:31:18Allowable under the council approved vehicle for hire schedule in the business licensing bylaw

2:31:24Because it is very clear so the funds are collected and I mentioned that at the beginning

2:31:28And they are put into in essence a reserve fund and that is what the balance is as you know of about

2:31:33332 000 and it is very clear that those funds are to be used for vehicle modifications

2:31:40So it says right in the original staff report

2:31:44Rideshare vehicles that cannot commit to the limitation regarding making their vehicles accessible

2:31:50Will pay a fee to a general fund which can be used by taxi owners to offset the price of making their taxis accessible

2:31:59The other thing that I'll just again within the bylaw

2:32:01It is specifically right in that schedule in the bylaw that the obligations of the issuer of the licenses

2:32:08And this speaks to they have to remit the funds to us

2:32:11And it's right in the bylaw to be used in a grant program for those needing accessibility modifications to their vehicles

2:32:18So I would say that at this moment council cannot actually do anything other than answer yes or no to the request

2:32:26And then you as council of course have the prerogative to change the specifications of that schedule under the bylaw

2:32:33And as the mayor says that's a separate issue

2:32:35But right now under the terms of the current bylaw neither staff

2:32:39Nor the aac

2:32:41Had the authority to do anything other than consider the request and it be a yes or a no

2:32:46I know there's been a lot of discussion about taxi script and I'm more than happy to speak to that

2:32:51Um because I think there's also some confusion about where the taxi script funding is coming from

2:32:55It is not coming from this fund and when we increased from two booklets to three booklets

2:33:00It did not come from this fund

2:33:02It came from the transit operating budget

2:33:04And so happy to continue the conversation and help to clear up that misunderstanding of the history of that taxi script program

2:33:10But to be very clear it has not been funded out of this reserve because it can't be

2:33:16Under the current schedule that is in the bylaw as approved by council

2:33:20so I so um, hopefully that helps that for this specific matter red tops requests

2:33:25Council has the authority to approve it or decline it and then if you want to as the mayor says, um give

2:33:33Direction on us revisiting that and but at this moment in time

2:33:37It is very very clear that that is the only thing it can be used for is vehicle modifications to make the vehicles

2:33:43Taxicabs in this case accessible

2:33:46Thank you

2:33:47Yep, I see everyone's hands

2:33:50But the first thing procedurally we got to do is we got to get the motion on the floor

2:33:55Councillor Richardson and Gibson

2:33:58moved and seconded

2:34:00And the motion is that the request from red top taxi for 39,500 to modify one vehicle for wheelchair accessibility

2:34:08be approved

2:34:10I would like us to move quickly, please

2:34:13Through these items so we can get to the end to the conclusion

2:34:17This one as our staff have said is literally a yes or no

2:34:21But if you have questions of clarity before the yes or no come I respect that

2:34:25But let's get to the questions right away. No long preambles, please starting with Councillor Gibson

2:34:30Thank you

2:34:33Yeah, thank you through mr. Mayor. I'll be brief

2:34:36Councillor alts and

2:34:38calling clock bush have

2:34:40have

2:34:41Um answered my question. So I'll just I'll lean into their answers a little bit. Um

2:34:47I I sympathize with the decision makers at the at the

2:34:51advisory committee level

2:34:54They have stated over and over again that it was out of a desire to fix the taxi script

2:34:59Issue that they felt was in place. Um, is the reason why councillor Gibson. I'm so very sorry to interrupt you. Is there a question?

2:35:06No, I I I made clear I'd already asked I had heard the answers to my question. I was going to comments

2:35:12No problem. So I'll just so all of council is on the same page

2:35:14I will allow comments or questions at this time just so we can get to the vote. Okay. I'm sorry

2:35:19You have the floor. I'll start the timer again. Go ahead. I just heard it loud and clear and and I heard loud and clear that the

2:35:25dissatisfaction with the taxi script

2:35:27Program or funding was the rationale for voting against

2:35:31This line item. Um, I I believe that was a little misguided that being said I understand there was a lot of confusion around the issue

2:35:38So I'm glad it's before council. I'm glad that we're making this decision

2:35:43I wholeheartedly support the program was intended to

2:35:46create a fund a slush fund for

2:35:49taxi companies to come forward and

2:35:51Apply and request this funding and that's exactly what it's for. So there may be issues elsewhere in the accessible transit

2:36:00Scripts or a program, but this is a very straightforward question. Yes or no, and I'll be voting yes

2:36:07Okay, thank you

2:36:09Goal or then boost a till

2:36:11Thank you through worship. Just comments. Um, I I was I was very concerned when I watched the uh the aac meeting

2:36:19After the fact and and my intention today was to come and to not not support this

2:36:24However, now that I've understood that the tax script and this funding are separate budgets. That really helps me out

2:36:31So I will be

2:36:32Supporting this and then I look forward to other motions to clarify the the uh application process for the tax script

2:36:39Thank you. Thank you. Absolutely. Councillor Goller. Thank you. Uh boost a till then alt

2:36:43Thank you. First, thanks to the mayor for clarifying the balance amount in the fund. It's a little bit confused there

2:36:49Thank you to dco clack bush for the clarification on page three of the staff or the report

2:36:55It's got the bylaw in there. If you can help me just clarify for me. It says the committee

2:37:02To be used in a grant program for those needing accessibility modifications

2:37:08To their vehicles comma including taxicabs

2:37:11So is this grant is it also intended if I have a vehicle that I personally and am eligible?

2:37:19Can make

2:37:20application to modify

2:37:22I I wasn't around in 2018 if you can clarify that thank you for clarifying the bylaw and then I do have one final clarification question

2:37:31Through the mayor to council boost a till um, so uh, no, uh, it's not for private individuals

2:37:36It is for any vehicle for hire so it could be a limo. It could be a ride share

2:37:40So it vehicle licensed under the vehicle for hire section of the bylaw could apply

2:37:51Any other applications?

2:37:53Thank you, and I guess my clarification question is is there ever a call for applications and further in the report in the

2:38:00financial implications

2:38:01The staff who prepare the report say that

2:38:05You know speaking to the sustainability of the grant program careful management

2:38:09Periodic reviews and can you tell me when the reviews happen of this program?

2:38:15You know to fund as it says as many accessibility modifications as possible

2:38:20Can you tell me what the review cycle usually with bylaws you you know you have a review cycle in there?

2:38:27So through the mayor

2:38:30View of this as of yet

2:38:32And I am uh, I am also at this moment going to suggest that probably mr. Godfrey and mr. Goss are going to need to come down

2:38:38Because I'm also going to probably need help from both of them. Mr. Godfrey here on the bylaw side and mr. Goss on the accessibility side

2:38:46So it would be typical that we would look approximately every seven years or so which would

2:38:53Time about now, but we have not done a review

2:38:56And in answer to your earlier question there is not a process for a formal call

2:39:00Um, it is simply on an as requested basis

2:39:04And then just the clarification related to the accessibility advisory committee

2:39:07This this fund is under the control and authority of counsel

2:39:11You through this report delegated the decision making to the accessibility advisory committee

2:39:16It isn't a budget line that that's renewed every year

2:39:20It's simply a fund that continues to accumulate that is under the the control of counsel

2:39:27Other than uh, other than the approximate time as counsel busadil just asked is

2:39:33Do do you Doug need to say anything further to that or is that the answer?

2:39:38And dco clack bush got it right. Okay. Thanks for coming down. We appreciate you

2:39:45All right, um

2:39:47Thank you, and I think it's important to note that all of counsel is aware that in the you know

2:39:52Once we deal with this issue there already is going to be motions to consider about reviews

2:39:57Everyone knows that right so it's coming. Yeah, did you you still have the floor?

2:40:02Yeah, I I wasn't aware of that. So thank you for for okay

2:40:07And so that was my question is you know hearing the aac and the delegations

2:40:12It seems to me that it would be something that should be reviewed asap

2:40:19Thank you. Uh, ult then shoot

2:40:23Through you to staff

2:40:26um

2:40:27With all due respect, I did find a couple of points in the report presented to us

2:40:33Uh, that accompanies these motions to be confusing

2:40:37Uh, so I'm going to ask

2:40:40The report is this a recommendation coming from staff or the committee or both?

2:40:49So uh through the mayor to the counselor. Thank you for the question. Um, yeah, so the the report

2:40:56That's before you this is the report that was initially presented to the accessibility advisory committee

2:41:03dated april the 15th and so that was

2:41:06The staff recommendation

2:41:08being put forward as a result of the request to the uh accessibility advisory committee

2:41:14Thank you because and and perhaps it's miss clack that needs clarification of this

2:41:20Just prior to you miss clack bush stated the decision making is delegated by council to the aac

2:41:28I'm wondering if that could be explained, please

2:41:36Through the mayor to counselor alt that is in the 2018 report. Um, that was what the recommendation was was that

2:41:44the the uh applications were to be reviewed by the accessibility advisory committee for vehicle modifications

2:41:52And thank you because that's where i'm struggling and i'm really struggling with this as a governance issue

2:41:57Uh, if the decision making is delegated to the aac and they did not recommend this

2:42:02Are we not in violation of our own procedures?

2:42:07Through the mayor to counselor alt it is my understanding and I would look to I don't know the clerk uh that anything that you have delegated

2:42:14Um can always come back to council. Um, I don't know if let's let the clerk answer, please

2:42:20Through you mr. Mayor to to counselor alt so it is delegated through the bylaw to the aac

2:42:26generally speaking

2:42:27Delegations that council makes to staff or other bodies do not prevent city council procedurally or legally

2:42:33From making a decision on that topic in the future

2:42:36So it has been delegated to the aac but that does not mean that council is not able to

2:42:40Review or make a different decision if it desires. Yeah, and thank you. I do appreciate that. Um, I think however

2:42:47It's a nuance. It's probably lost on a lot of people and and another nuance and I think I need to

2:42:54Mayor Guthrie, this is a procedural question as well probably for the clerks

2:42:59What does the term consult actually mean under the municipal?

2:43:04responsibility under the aod a is that reporting to the um

2:43:10accessibility advisory committee that this is the report going forward or is it discussion and

2:43:17Perhaps some sort of consensus

2:43:20I because I I'm I'm really unclear on this

2:43:25Through you mr. Mayor to to counselor alt generally speaking in legislation and I don't have a specific section

2:43:31Up in front of me to refer to but consultation would mean bringing to a body for discussion a particular item

2:43:37But it would not bind whoever or whatever the decision making authority is

2:43:41Based on the results of that consultation

2:43:44Much engagement consultation doesn't bind city council when it comes back to you for a decision

2:43:49And I completely understand that

2:43:52Uh, the the challenge that I've got is that I think again, there's a nuance

2:43:56It's fairly ambiguous to most people and that's that's part of our problem here. Um, I think the rest of my questions

2:44:05Have been answered

2:44:07But I think that we have some governance issues that are very apparent from this that we need to clear up

2:44:13I do have one last question for staff. I think I know the answer

2:44:17But I think again, it's important for this to be made public

2:44:20Why on this program are on the request from uh, the the taxi

2:44:26Company which is made in in in all sincerity. Why would there not be an rfp for this?

2:44:37Through counselor alt um, I just want to make sure I understand your question on rfp for the modifications

2:44:42They're seeking to make or why would we not why would we not be like?

2:44:47It's it's unc this is this one is neither fish nor foul to me. That's that's what's confusing me in a way

2:44:53Um, why are they coming to us asking us for a grant?

2:44:57To the mayor to counselor alt because that's what specified within the vehicle for higher uh, uh report and through that schedule the business licensing

2:45:05Bylaw that this is the process and so red top is simply following the process that was set out and approved in 2018

2:45:12And just the last point on that so if

2:45:15Canadian cab or think there's perhaps another cab company or even red top were to apply for these funds. They are equally as eligible

2:45:23Through to mayor to counselor alt. Yes, absolutely any vehicle for higher that again to counselor boost the till's earlier question

2:45:30limos um other via other rideshare any uh, anyone that is licensed would be um, uh

2:45:38Uh eligible to apply for funds under the current the current the way it's structured currently

2:45:44And and thank you very much because like counselor boosted till I did have some uh concerns

2:45:48I was confused by the expression statement cars and taxis

2:45:54That struck me as anybody could apply for a modification and and I would encourage us to um to clarify that that's cars for higher

2:46:03In any future report of this nature

2:46:08Okay, that okay

2:46:11We can get to sort of that comment

2:46:13in the next phase

2:46:15Trying to keep us focused

2:46:18Counselor karan and then katyn please

2:46:21Questions or comments? Okay

2:46:23um in

2:46:25I'm just trying to get the jurisdiction correct here and in on page five of the report. We have some excerpts from the bylaw

2:46:33It does say

2:46:34288,000 has been collected but I did hear mayor guthrie say it's over 300,000 minus 39,000 equals 288

2:46:43Could you just clarify that?

2:46:45To the mayor to counsel it's the difference on when the report was written and versus the balance in the account now

2:46:51So as of today the balance in the account is the 332,000 and if you were to uh, uh,

2:46:57Accept the request from redtop then that would drop the balance by the 39,000 and again i'm rounding

2:47:03But the current balance in the the fund is

2:47:06332,000 and I think the difference is just the timing of when the report was originally written

2:47:11Okay, thank you

2:47:12And also at the bottom of page five out of six in the report speaking to counselor alts line of questioning

2:47:20It doesn't say the fund the man that the fund the decisions are delegated to the aac

2:47:27It actually says the funds are managed by the aac

2:47:30And I just wonder if you can clarify the difference if it's just that

2:47:37Are they a delegated authority and we are sitting here as an appeal body?

2:47:42Or are they actually the managers of the fund?

2:47:46And we don't have a role I heard I just want to clarify the language. Thanks

2:47:54So through the mayor i'll start and I don't know if dylan wants to jump in um, I have been uh going

2:47:59We're we're um

2:48:02Giving you advice is based on what is in the schedule within the bylaw

2:48:06And so if the wording in the report has caused that confusion

2:48:10It is that the

2:48:12That this has been delegated to the aac to make a decision or to evaluate the applications the suitability of the applications and make a recommendation

2:48:21Back, um, but that ultimately as counsel you have the responsibility for this fund and the final decision

2:48:29Making authority. Okay, and then my last question. I just want to be clear

2:48:33So I don't have the minutes of the aac committee in front of me and I haven't watched the video

2:48:39But it was my understanding

2:48:42um that

2:48:44the

2:48:45the motion

2:48:47was not to

2:48:49Decline the application to red top for this amount. It was to pause

2:48:55until there had been a review

2:48:58to ensure that there was some

2:49:01Fairness in the application process

2:49:04And that there were criteria established because what one of the things that we don't have right now is

2:49:09Any criteria for how a vehicle for hire would apply for these funds and they were requesting a pause until we have criteria

2:49:18Not a out and out decline. No

2:49:22Never statement. Is that

2:49:24Accurate so through the mayor. I think to to clarify the motion from the aac was not related to the application process for the

2:49:32modifications to vehicles under the vehicle for hire their motion related to that was related to the taxi script program which

2:49:40Recognizing the mayor has said will still be considered tonight

2:49:43But it the taxi script program is not something that can be funded currently out of this account

2:49:49It is only vehicle modifications. And so again the mayor brought this to the agenda tonight

2:49:54So i'll leave it to him to speak to why he opted to bring it here

2:49:58But the recommendation as passed by the aac

2:50:02That they've referenced the taxi script program and that isn't what this by-law currently can fund or the schedule of this by-law

2:50:09okay

2:50:11Thank you. It's become apparent to me in the discussion that

2:50:15We have two separate issues here. We absolutely need a review of mobility transit accessibility taxi script program

2:50:22And i'm i'm trying really hard to keep the two separate

2:50:26Thank you. Uh, kaiten. I think you're last go for it. Thanks through you mr. Mayor. Um, so I understand that

2:50:36Given the way that the by-law is currently written. This is the only thing the funds can go for

2:50:41Um, I'm not against them having money or increasing their accessibility. I think that's great of them

2:50:48But because I do feel that the by-law needs to be reviewed

2:50:53I'm reluctant to lower the budget because we have other items that I think

2:50:59Would also increase best bang for the buck once that review is completed

2:51:05um, I know that

2:51:06in the last

2:51:08In 2024 we spent

2:51:11$46,000 on redtop taxi because we couldn't accommodate mobility transit users

2:51:19and so that's a cost from the city and

2:51:24It's four hundred thousand dollars for a new mobility bus

2:51:28It's about forty four thousand dollars for a part-time driver. It's about a hundred and three for a fully kitted out full-time driver

2:51:36so

2:51:38the reason why i'm going to be voting against this is because

2:51:40I think that

2:51:43once

2:51:44it's reviewed and there are the ability for us to

2:51:49Use this fund for other things that the best bang for the buck is to put it into

2:51:55mobility transit because

2:51:58We clearly have a gap. We've got an overflow

2:52:01and

2:52:02We've got affordable bus programs

2:52:05so

2:52:06This would be the best way

2:52:09to get people moving

2:52:11Who have these needs throughout guelph?

2:52:13Thanks

2:52:16Okay, thank you

2:52:18Very quickly. I'm circling now

2:52:21But except for councillor downer. So i'm gonna i'm gonna allow it, but I would like to call the vote

2:52:26So i'm circling very quick to gibson very quick to caller

2:52:30Take your time councillor downer. It's your first time around

2:52:33but but

2:52:36Please please council. Let's let's let's get to the decision because you know, I'm going to speak for a minute and a half

2:52:40So

2:52:42Gibson and then goller. Yeah, thank you through mr. Mayor. So first of all, I'll say thanks for bringing this for mr

2:52:51For saw this being somewhat of a difficult conversation, but I appreciate it because it is ultimately looking at solutions oriented

2:52:58decision-making

2:52:59We have an identified issue. We're trying to improve accessibility in our city

2:53:04And that's ultimately what this debate is is about now. I will say this on the issue that we're debating now

2:53:11Council we have a bylaw

2:53:13a bylaw with very clear

2:53:15Very clear sort of mission statement to help outfit these vehicles to increase accessibility

2:53:22We have had an operator come forward requesting funds out of that out of that bylaw reserve

2:53:28and now i'm hearing

2:53:30From multiple counselors that we need to we don't like this process. We need to review this bylaw

2:53:35Before we make any decisions. We need to have a fulsome review of it. That's not how it works

2:53:40We have created a policy that allows this to this transaction

2:53:45We've been collecting this fee for seven years

2:53:47And now we have an applicant coming forward looking to utilize it and and all of a sudden we're not in favor of the bylaw

2:53:53We want to review it

2:53:54I just that doesn't give me a good feeling reputationally as a city and that and that doesn't give me a good feeling

2:54:00With the with the applicant in the room

2:54:03Quite frankly listening to this conversation saying that now we want to review the bylaw and and go back to square one and potentially

2:54:09remove

2:54:10Their application from the process. So i'm really struggling with any kind of justification as to why we

2:54:17Other than saying fly that no, I don't want to give this money to rent out any justification around reviewing the bylaw

2:54:23Does not seem appropriate at this time. This is a policy that we've established

2:54:28They're here. It's a yes or no. Thank you

2:54:31Okay, thank you

2:54:33Guller then downer

2:54:35Thank you through your worship to staff

2:54:37Just following up on something that councillor caitlin said

2:54:42Could the funds in this budget line be used for wealth transit to purchase a vehicle?

2:54:51Through the mayor to councillor Goller. No, we we wealth transit is not under the vehicle for higher bylaw

2:54:56We are actually not a licensed vehicle

2:54:59And then I would also just note that we also don't provide service 24 hours a day seven days a week or outside of the city

2:55:06Okay, thank you. Thank you worship

2:55:09Thank you councillor. Okay councillor downer, please

2:55:12Yes, through you mr. Mayor, so i'm gonna support the funds going to um red top

2:55:19Taxi I sort of I have to sort of agree

2:55:23with councillor gibson's position that

2:55:26The fund was put in place and it was under a report called the taxi vehicle for how higher report

2:55:33It was all about taxis and regulating taxis and and how we do that and and I sort of somewhat remember the

2:55:40conversation at time that the difficulty it was in order to um, you know have have

2:55:47Modified taxis within the city and for that option. I would not want to see that option reduced

2:55:54My own mother used to use that option quite frequently

2:55:58Um, as it was the only one that she could use many years when she was alive

2:56:03a while ago

2:56:05so I just um

2:56:08I just i'm really struggling with the with some of the discussion here there's

2:56:14There's a process in place. We had a policy. I understand they desire to review

2:56:19I do understand that but they have come here under the existing policy

2:56:25that's been in place

2:56:27And it's to change it now when they've come forward with that. It just seems completely unfair

2:56:35And somewhat to me lacks integrity when the policy is still in place and that is what we're here

2:56:41You know, that's what they're doing. They're following our policy and they're here looking for that decision

2:56:47They're offering a much needed service within our city that other

2:56:52providers

2:56:55Accessibility providers don't provide the out-of-town trips and things like that and and the 24 7

2:57:02so I think I think it's an important that

2:57:05That this that this move forward if if we're having a review

2:57:09I'm happy to do to support that as well. But at this time

2:57:13It's it's the policy that's in place. It's about, you know, the predictability that we we give our community

2:57:22As well and we talk about a lot of unpredictability in businesses these days

2:57:26I think, you know, we should at least be predictable to the policy that we have

2:57:31In place and I think it's a very worthwhile

2:57:35Asset for our city and I don't quite see the issue with it. It was quite specific back then that it was around

2:57:43The funds were going

2:57:45To modify vehicles and if I was one of those companies that contribute to this fund

2:57:51I would be somewhat

2:57:54Disturbed that the funds were not going to be going to what it was the intended use

2:58:01I'd have to say

2:58:02So, um, I will support this. I would also support a review going forward

2:58:07That's about time to review it, but I think it's important that we um, we create some predictability around this for now

2:58:15Okay, thank you

2:58:17Make sure I time myself

2:58:19I'll just speak then before I call the vote. Okay everyone. So obviously I'm going to support this. I mean, I brought it forward

2:58:26um, I brought it forward because of

2:58:29Two to three reasons one was and I kind of spoke to this when I when I spoke about the item at the beginning before delegations

2:58:35But I felt like this issue to me

2:58:39Needed to come to council because of the policy in place and we needed to make sure in my view

2:58:44That we needed to follow that after seven years of of fees being collected and speaking fees

2:58:50I just got to say in my opinion. I I don't I don't personally like the consistent

2:58:56narrative of for-profit for-profit for-profit companies can be very nice

2:59:00Companies for-profit companies can be great great community builders in our company in our city and um,

2:59:08What's special about this fund is guess guess what everybody? There's no tax dollars

2:59:12There's no property tax dollars that come into this

2:59:16It's from a for fun. It's from for-profit companies

2:59:20That their fees from for-profit can go flow through to another for-profit company. So be it

2:59:26There's no property tax taxes involved in this at all

2:59:30um

2:59:31I want to thank you red top taxi for your service to this community because I too like sarah has

2:59:37indicated in her delegation have heard multiple times the over and above service that you've done to our community

2:59:43So thank you very much. I think that the aac made a and perhaps because of some confusion which I respect

2:59:51A difficult yet wrong decision. I have the right to to say that and that's why I've brought it here

2:59:56Because council is the ultimate decider and I think we need to adhere to the policy

3:00:02I also brought it here because I agreed with some of the issues that the aac also brought up

3:00:07Which we're about to talk about in a second

3:00:10Okay, I'm looking for a win win here tonight. That's the entire reason why I brought this forward

3:00:18I didn't want this to be controversial at all. I want to help people get around this city and outside of the city for their medical appointments

3:00:25I want to help them have mobility transit

3:00:28options

3:00:29That is being provided. I don't want to reduce that. I don't want to cut that

3:00:33I don't want to make it difficult for our people and our citizens in our community to not be able to get around

3:00:38That's why I'm going to be voting yes to the request

3:00:42That the entire account was set up for to begin with

3:00:46And then we'll talk about the other stuff which I also fully agree that I think we need to also discuss too

3:00:52And that's where the next win hopefully can come

3:00:55I'm here tonight for a win win and I hope the council can also do a win win tonight

3:01:00Let's give the money through the request and let's talk about the next issues after that

3:01:05So with that, I'll call the vote is anyone against the request for red top taxi to get $39,500

3:01:13To modify their vehicle to make it an accessible vehicle to continue their service in the community

3:01:18Okay

3:01:21Councillor Caton

3:01:24And that's it. So that passes

3:01:26Thank you very much everyone. Okay. Thank you very much

3:01:30Now we're going to go to the next topic, but I just heard it probably is wise

3:01:37We're going to take a break. We're going to take a 10 minute break

3:01:41It is 8 51. Let's come let's be nine minutes. Let's come back at nine

3:01:47But council, can I can I encourage us?

3:01:51Then we know it's coming next it's all about review

3:01:54This in a in in a way those motions are also a yes or no kind of option

3:01:59So let's maybe rally around getting to that decision as well. And let's have that nine minute break. Okay. Thank you very much everyone

3:09:59Okay, everybody. This is your 30 second warning

3:10:5220 seconds

3:11:14Just before we're to start

3:11:16I just want to correct something that I said that was wrong earlier just so it's on the record

3:11:22We'll be here for the next five hours because no, I was getting

3:11:28Thank you to staff in my bullet points of the tree bylaw

3:11:33I accidentally said 0.4% impact when it was 0.04

3:11:39Just I I accidentally said that that wrong and so just in case our media partners here are writing that

3:11:44I just wanted to make sure on the record that it was corrected

3:11:47So my apologies and thank you to staff for letting me know I apologize for that mistake

3:11:53Okay, moving along

3:11:55We have two more motions to consider

3:11:58And as I said at the beginning

3:12:01I I felt like the issue we've just settled was one of the wins that I was looking for

3:12:06And I also felt and I'll use the same terminology that I used

3:12:11Which was I thought that some of the things that were brought up by the AAC because I too watched the meeting were

3:12:17valid

3:12:18And I want to validate that through some of the motions that might be ahead of us

3:12:24One of them is from myself this and the next one is from counselor. Kate

3:12:28Um, I want to thank counselor. Kate for working on on on the one that she will uh to bring to bring forward after this one

3:12:36But this this next one is specifically about the taxi script

3:12:40It's that staff be directed to review the taxi script program for potential modifications

3:12:46and enhancements

3:12:47Through the 2026 budget confirmation process ensuring feedback from the AAC and just so everyone knows

3:12:55Sorry, just to be procedurally correct

3:12:57Busatil will move it and Richardson will second it

3:13:02The word like modifications

3:13:04Can include some of the things that I heard from the AAC members like the process the application like

3:13:11You know just all of that could be reviewed and then is there also

3:13:16An opportunity to speak about these scripts even though they've been

3:13:20Um, kind of increased already

3:13:23Is there is there a demand for more? Is there not and so between now and the end of the year for the budget

3:13:29It gives staff enough time to review that

3:13:31Get that answers and to

3:13:35In the in the late fall

3:13:37So with that is there any questions on that one?

3:13:40Because if not, I can

3:13:42Call the vote. Yes, counselor kate

3:13:47So I've just uh, I was thinking about doing an amendment uh to it

3:13:51But can we have it on the screen again just one more time because I want to make sure if it would make sense with the way it's written

3:13:56Yes, absolutely

3:13:59We'll have that put up and take your time

3:14:02Thanks

3:14:07Oh, yeah, we talked about this. I'm so sorry last night. You might have wanted to add

3:14:11Yeah, I was just going to add um the taxis group program

3:14:15and um

3:14:17mobility transit applications

3:14:21I think that's valid

3:14:23Can I can so can I just have you move that kate?

3:14:26Yes for us. Yes

3:14:29I think uh busatil will be happy to second that

3:14:32Katen, I'm really sorry. Can you just take the time to also just make sure you email that to the clerks?

3:14:37But they've captured it, but just just make sure you do so we're adding and mobility transit

3:14:43Applications those are the words so let me call the vote on the amendment, please. Is there anyone against that?

3:14:50Nobody thank you and now we'll call the vote on that motion

3:14:54As amended is that okay? Sorry can I ask a question too? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. You have the floor go ahead

3:15:00um

3:15:01When when this is being reviewed would all the past feedback from the aac's

3:15:07Be included as a part of that process

3:15:11So through the mayor to council kate and absolutely and I just do also want to clarify that the

3:15:16Review and by no means does that take away from the motion?

3:15:19I just want to make sure that it is stated that um as committed to the aac transit staff are already doing the review of the mobility application

3:15:25So this just reinforces that but that's actually work. That's already underway

3:15:29And the review of the mobility application probably doesn't have budget impact or not necessarily

3:15:34We were bringing that forward anyways

3:15:37With the feedback from the aac and so I just want to make sure that I sort of stated that out loud because I didn't want to leave

3:15:45In particular those who were on the aac the impression that we hadn't honored our commitment to already be doing this work

3:15:52So the motion before council of course just reinforces that but that work is already underway

3:15:57The taxiscript program that is where there could be budget impact

3:16:01Because increasing the taxiscript program would have a financial implication right now as stated earlier that's funded out of the transit

3:16:08Base budget and so that motion then would

3:16:11Allow us to bring that forward and to your question council kate and it would absolutely

3:16:15Include the feedback that we've heard from the aac on this

3:16:19Great and I know that we've actually we've had conversations about the application process before so I knew that you're all working on it

3:16:25I just wanted to make sure it was in there. So I appreciate that you're all working on that. Thanks

3:16:30Thank you. Just a clarity question. I'm so sorry when when was great staff are already working on it

3:16:35And I'm fine to you know solidify it with our own motion from council, but when was it coming back?

3:16:41In other words, is this motion going to accelerate that?

3:16:45To council the review of the mobility application that won't change the timeline on it

3:16:49I don't want to commit to a firm timeline tonight because I don't have transit staff here

3:16:53And so I just don't want to speak out of turn, but that work was already underway and we it was going to be coming

3:16:58Back in terms of the recommendations that we'd be bringing for the aac

3:17:03To see the recommendations that we're making and then ultimately that's not an application that would need to come to council for approval

3:17:08Anyways, it's operational and we would simply be implementing it

3:17:12But the taxary script that isn't something that we were necessarily planning to bring back in advance of budget

3:17:17So that will accelerate this so that you have that information in advance of budget

3:17:21Okay, so I'm very sorry council, but I'm just trying to make sure we're kind of doing this correctly

3:17:26Um

3:17:27What I I appreciate that you're not speaking on behalf of the transit staff that aren't here

3:17:32But I think that there was some valid points from the aac and and we even heard it tonight

3:17:37Not just what they listened to you in the last week. So what like I guess I'm just trying to understand

3:17:43Is it is this a one year wait?

3:17:45It is this and I'm exaggerating on purpose

3:17:48And I guess what I'm trying to also get at depending on your answer

3:17:51Is should we actually create another motion?

3:17:53In other words, should we have a motion that's just the taxi script because it's budget related and has a memo attached to it

3:17:59And there's budgetary and then should we have a separate one? That is the mobility

3:18:04process and and and and review on that and and we can still do both, but should they be separate because

3:18:11Sorry, you understand what I'm saying. Go ahead

3:18:13Yeah, to the mayor

3:18:15I I don't I'm not sure that it's an issue that they're together

3:18:17Our memo will simply state that there isn't a budget impact to the mobility application changes

3:18:21And yes, I have confirmed with transit staff that that is something that we will be bringing forward in 2025

3:18:27Part of it is we want to make sure that we're respectful of the the feedback from the aac

3:18:31So we need to time it to when they're meeting and we can bring that forward for their consideration

3:18:36But that is something that we will be looking to update in 2025

3:18:40Towards the end of the year once we have a chance to do that review with the aac

3:18:43I'm so sorry everybody. I just wanted to make sure I understood that. Thank you very much

3:18:47And uh, I'm glad to hear that it is coming back this year because I think there is validity in in trying to get that process done

3:18:53Changed as quickly as possible. Okay, so I'm going to call the vote then on this motion as amended. Okay. Is there anyone against that?

3:19:01Nobody perfect. Okay. We're moving to the last motion. I'm going to go to councillor Caton

3:19:08Thank you again for bringing this forward

3:19:10We talked last night and uh, we were kind of on the same page on some things. I threw it over to you

3:19:17And so happy to have you table the motion go ahead

3:19:23We could get that on the screen, please

3:19:26Thank you very much

3:19:27That staff be directed to report back to city council with proposed amendments to the vehicle for higher schedule

3:19:33Of the business licensing bylaw would ensure the best use of funds with regards to publicly accessible mobility options

3:19:42And I'm doing this basically for the reasons why I said I think that there is a lot of ways that we could be using this money

3:19:50That would improve mobility

3:19:53For our residents and I think that we need to just expand that use

3:19:58Thanks

3:20:00Thank you. Does someone want to second that?

3:20:02Alt, thank you

3:20:06Can we just have the motion up on the screen one more time? Thank you

3:20:11So that staff be directed

3:20:13Or good so far

3:20:14To report back to city council

3:20:17With proposed amendments. I gotta be honest with you. I might have a little bit of a problem there

3:20:21To the vehicle for higher schedule of the business licensing bylaw that would ensure the best use of the funds with regards to publicly accessible mobility options

3:20:30So um, hey, I

3:20:33I'm the chair. Does anyone have questions on this before I ask just a question. I'll go alt and then go

3:20:41Mayor Guthrie, it's not a question, but I think I know what your concern is and I think that it might be

3:20:48Um, addressed if the word proposed is changed to possible

3:20:55Uh council, uh alt

3:20:57We are aligned tonight

3:20:59Well done. I'm gonna let the camera focus in on me so you can see what I'm doing

3:21:02And the reason for that is if we don't do that then we have

3:21:07predicted the outcome

3:21:09That staff is going to come back with and I don't think we should preclude staff from making the recommendations independently

3:21:17Thank you council. Oh, would you be willing just to move the amendment then on that word for us?

3:21:22Thank you. So you're changing the word, um, uh,

3:21:25Proposed to potential potential. I guess we need to give the breath the breadth of the room to staff to be like

3:21:31I mean, I don't know they could come back and say you should leave it alone because of whatever abcd

3:21:37Um, so I think thank you council. Oh, we're on the same page on that and who's seconding that uh amendment

3:21:43Richardson, thank you

3:21:44Okay, can I just call the vote on that amendment or that word please? Yes. Is anyone against the word changed potential?

3:21:51Thank you that passes

3:21:53We're back to the main motion now as amended. Does anyone have any questions on that for the review caller? I had you next

3:21:58You're good now. Okay. Busatil. I was just curious if staff wanted to comment on a timeline for that

3:22:07Uh, so through the mayor, um, I think one of the things that we would want to do and mr

3:22:10Godfrey may want to comment is when this was created in 2018

3:22:13It wasn't consultation with the the very companies who would be paying into this fund

3:22:19As well as potentially accessing accessing the fund

3:22:21And so we want to make sure that we're taking the time to go back and be respectful and have the conversations with

3:22:26The taxi companies the the the ride share companies. Um, and so I think

3:22:30That wasn't an answer on the timeline simply to say that it is not something that we would be coming back to you on in

3:22:362025 I think this is an into early 2026 because we would need to take that time

3:22:40And also just recognizing there's work plan

3:22:43We I need to make sure that mr. Godfrey's team

3:22:46Has the time to put into this so I don't know dug. Is there anything else you want to say on timelines?

3:22:51Through you, uh, mr. I grew the what councillor dco. Uh, claq bush indicated. I would recommend q2 of 2026

3:23:00Wow councillor, uh, uh, c8. Oh

3:23:03Wow, so it's definitely c8. Wow. Sorry. It's a demotion. You know that, right?

3:23:10All right, uh, thank you councillor Busuttil. Quran is next

3:23:14Yeah, normally a bylaw review would have stakeholder and community engagement

3:23:19I don't think we are looking for an entire bylaw review process to happen here, but community engagement as well

3:23:26I'm assuming

3:23:30Thank you

3:23:31And I just want to say i'm going to vote for this. Uh, I talked with erin about it last night. Councillor caitlin about it last night

3:23:36um

3:23:38Like one of the things that kind of surprised me was number one. It's been seven years. I kind of forgot about it

3:23:43Like I don't know if anyone else did I see heads nodding. Um, so it felt ripe for a review anyways

3:23:49And then the other thing was like there's 300 and somewhat thousand dollars in there like my my

3:23:53My issue a little bit was like well, what if like no one comes and asks

3:23:57For years

3:23:59And it just keeps accumulating and accumulating and accumulating and there's like a million and a half

3:24:03You know what I mean? Like I just don't know what the uptake is on it

3:24:06So I think it's very fair to do the review which is again

3:24:09This is part of the win of why I wanted to bring this topic here tonight

3:24:14So thank you very much

3:24:16Um with that I'll call the vote then is anyone against the main that main motion as amended

3:24:21Nobody perfect that's unanimous

3:24:24Um, we have bylaws. I've add two things. I just got to say about the bylaws

3:24:29Councillor downer just to say them out loud one is on the

3:24:337.2

3:24:35It's the traffic and parking bylaw number

3:24:3820698

3:24:40As amended to regulate the highways within the city of gulf and the traffic and parking there on it's

3:24:45We got an email from staff today that that just has to be parked

3:24:49That's a bad pun but uh, but uh until another time uh, because it's just delayed

3:24:55Clerks am I saying that right? Um before I ask councillor downer to move everything as amended

3:25:00Through you mr. Mayor, we just want to know that there's an amendment to 7.2

3:25:04I'll are located there versus what was included on the agenda to make one small amendment to leave a set of temporary

3:25:10Traffic lights at a location for longer

3:25:13So it's a slight change versus what was on the agenda and just needs to be moved as amended

3:25:18And and so um to the clerks. Do you need a formal amendment of that or just to note it verbally?

3:25:24Okay, anyone against that note notion of verbal?

3:25:28changes, okay, um, and then the second thing is

3:25:34Councillor goller is asked for

3:25:37a bylaw to be

3:25:40Pulled out

3:25:47Oh, uh 7.3 am I right?

3:25:50Okay, so councillor downer would you move everything except for 7.3?

3:26:08I move by myself and seconded by councillor richardson that bylaws 2025

3:26:1321059 and 2025

3:26:1621072

3:26:18through to

3:26:195

3:26:2121078 be approved subject to section

3:26:25284

3:26:28dash

3:26:29Sorry 284 11

3:26:33Four of the municipal act and as amended and that's pulling out

3:26:387.3

3:26:40Thanks. Um, okay. Oh

3:26:42councillor kipson, do you have a

3:26:44Just uh, just a funny thought came to my mind about the amended bylaw and the temporary lights staying up a little longer

3:26:52No one is complaining about those lights staying up

3:26:58Okay, thank you for the comments for now. I'm going to call the vote. They are just bylaws and we have to get them through

3:27:04So is anyone against all those?

3:27:07No, okay. Thank you. That's passed. I'll now have you uh, have you just uh,

3:27:12I'm just you already moved 7.3 is just pulled out to vote on separately. So I'll call the vote on that as anyone against

3:27:21Just goller. Okay. Thank you. So that passes

3:27:24um, I am not going to call adjournment yet even though maybe everyone wants us to because

3:27:31councillor Caron

3:27:34Has been very gracious

3:27:36This is why people need to come to our council meetings in person more often

3:27:40Um, happy birthday to our city. There's cake

3:27:46Adam's like hey

3:27:49So yeah, I just uh, thank you councillor Caron for thinking of our city and us

3:27:55And uh, it's a little nudge of a reminder that hey, we're two years away now

3:28:00It's sneaking up on us on the bicentennial

3:28:04We will have a much larger cake

3:28:06So I will make sure that's in the budget

3:28:09And so I just wanted to say thank you to you for bringing that

3:28:13unhappy birthday to our great city

3:28:16And with that who wants to help me with adjournment

3:28:19Bucitil and katin would like to help with that. Is there anyone against adjournment?

3:28:25Nobody. Okay. Thanks everybody. Have a great rest of the night. The meeting is formally adjourned. Take care