Potential future relocation of the City Hall clock be referred to staff…

1:29:36give her presentation first.

1:29:44Good afternoon, everyone.

1:29:46The public art policy that's before you

1:29:49is our latest recommendation for revision.

1:29:53The policy was first established in 2011

1:29:56and then last revised in 2014.

1:29:59And so the amendments or changes to the policy

1:30:02that are before you largely,

1:30:05to some degree, update references

1:30:06to reporting and accountability relationships.

1:30:10But in addition to that,

1:30:11with the revisions to the policy,

1:30:13we intend to accomplish three things.

1:30:16The first, the policy statement has been revised

1:30:20to center the artist and to recognize

1:30:23that public art encompasses artistic practice,

1:30:26not just the output, like the sculpture,

1:30:28the mural or the song,

1:30:31but the process of making art as well.

1:30:33And through the policy statement

1:30:35and implementation of the policy,

1:30:38we want to demonstrate our respect for artists

1:30:40and recognize the significant impact

1:30:43their work has on community well-being and vitality,

1:30:47place-making and prosperity.

1:30:49The recommended policy updates also align management

1:30:53of the city's public art collection

1:30:55with the museum's robust collection management practices.

1:30:59So from acquisition to conservation and preservation

1:31:02to record keeping to public access.

1:31:05It's our intent to be consistent in how we manage

1:31:09both the material heritage collection

1:31:11that the city has as well as the public art collection.

1:31:14And finally, the revised policy recommendations

1:31:21recommends regular contributions

1:31:22from the city's operating budget

1:31:24to the public art reserve fund

1:31:26to provide a funding mechanism

1:31:28for acquisitions and commissions.

1:31:30Contributions from community benefits charges,

1:31:34federal and provincial grants and private donations

1:31:37will also be used to grow the public art reserve.

1:31:40Currently, there is a budget

1:31:43for the maintenance of the public art collection,

1:31:45but not for acquiring new works.

1:31:47And this approach would ensure available allocations

1:31:51for legacy acquisitions or commissions,

1:31:55such as public art projects to mark the bicentennial,

1:31:58for instance.

1:31:59So at this time, we're asking council

1:32:02for approval of the policy and principle

1:32:04as a guiding document and the actual budget request

1:32:07will be forthcoming through the budget process.

1:32:12Thank you.

1:32:13Are there, I think we don't see any delegations

1:32:17on this topic.

1:32:18So are there any questions for staff on this?

1:32:23Councillor Bousetail.

1:32:25Thank you.

1:32:26And through you, Madam Chair,

1:32:27thank you very much for the report.

1:32:29This is exciting.

1:32:31I have three questions.

1:32:33So the first one, I'm gonna refer

1:32:35to the consolidated report page numbers.

1:32:37So it's on page 43 in it.

1:32:39It's around the funding section 2.1.

1:32:42My question is twofold.

1:32:43The first one is this a fixed formula

1:32:46of 25% for governance.

1:32:48And if you can elaborate a little bit,

1:32:50what exactly is governance?

1:32:52And my interest is the community art initiative,

1:32:56as part of engagement and everything else,

1:32:58and that the process for engagement

1:33:00might be greater than 75, 25.

1:33:02So is that funding fixed?

1:33:05Is it set out in policy?

1:33:06Is it negotiable?

1:33:08By initiative?

1:33:10If you can explain a bit more, please.

1:33:15The ratio set out in the policy are best practices,

1:33:22and they are our targets that we work towards.

1:33:26We do want to ensure that investment in public art

1:33:30is benefiting the artistic community primarily,

1:33:33and we want to ensure that our administration

1:33:37of that work, while important,

1:33:40is secondary to the investment that goes to community.

1:33:49Okay, thank you.

1:33:50The second one is section 3.1, page 44 and 45,

1:33:54and this is the evaluation criteria set out as A to K

1:33:59for sites owned, public art sites owned.

1:34:03So how is community art valued in this process,

1:34:08especially if it's not on a public site?

1:34:10Is that part of the conversation,

1:34:15especially in neighborhood residential areas

1:34:17where there may not be public space?

1:34:25Again, the section of the policy provides guidance

1:34:28for public art and public spaces,

1:34:31and we hope that our practices are modeled

1:34:37for art within private spaces.

1:34:42So again, we're trying to model best practices,

1:34:46but we don't have a mechanism through this policy

1:34:52for insisting on selection and criteria

1:34:57for art in private spaces.

1:35:01Thank you, and I guess I'm thinking of some of the youth

1:35:04in the neighborhood and so on

1:35:05that may not be artistically connected to public spaces,

1:35:09but more other areas in the community.

1:35:13The final question that I had is,

1:35:15and then I have a comment, Madam Chair,

1:35:17is the overlap in planning and funding for community art

1:35:22with community engagement and the city's equity initiatives.

1:35:26And I didn't see any reference to this.

1:35:27It speaks to collaborating and so on.

1:35:31Is there an intentional process for community art?

1:35:37Certainly through the presentation

1:35:41on the culture plan that you will see

1:35:44in just a few moments, community art

1:35:47and equity diversity inclusion in art initiatives

1:35:52is writ large in the culture plan,

1:35:55and that will influence the public art policy and practice.

1:36:02Okay, are there any other questions?

1:36:06Councillor Cato and then Councillor Coron.

1:36:09Thank you, through you, Chair.

1:36:11I was interested in that in a COVID recovery section.

1:36:14I was just wondering what we're doing to address air quality

1:36:17in our culture buildings that we own personally

1:36:20and what we're doing to encourage air cleaning

1:36:22in other locations.

1:36:28Through the chair to Councillor Caton,

1:36:29that really wasn't within the bounds of this study.

1:36:32This was simply looking at public art

1:36:34and not our cultural facilities specifically,

1:36:37but that's certainly a question that we can take away

1:36:39and refer to our corporate facilities staff

1:36:42who sit in this home section

1:36:44and can get back to you specifically

1:36:46about the facility question.

1:36:49Great, thank you.

1:36:50I said one more question.

1:36:51So I saw that there was identified

1:36:55that we had inadequate event structure

1:36:57and some red tape that were issues,

1:37:00but I didn't see where we had listed the solution to that.

1:37:03Is that work that's gonna happen separately

1:37:06or is that in his other document?

1:37:11Through chair Downer, I think you're referencing

1:37:13the culture plan, which is the next item up on the agenda.

1:37:16And so if it's okay, maybe we can answer that question

1:37:19when we get to that next agenda item.

1:37:21Sorry, I'm very excited.

1:37:22Thank you.

1:37:23We are too, it's okay.

1:37:27Okay, is that, have you finished, Councillor Caton?

1:37:32Okay, Councillor Caron.

1:37:34Thank you.

1:37:35It sounds like we're all excited.

1:37:36I know this has been on the work plan for a long time

1:37:38and I just wanna thank you for bringing this report forward

1:37:41and it is comprehensive and I'm too excited.

1:37:45Public art, I'm sure we've all visited cities

1:37:48and seen public art and said,

1:37:50why don't we have more of it in Guelph?

1:37:52And I think there's not a lot of awareness

1:37:55of the public art that we do have,

1:37:56some of the beautiful pieces that we have

1:37:59throughout the city.

1:38:00So I'm excited to add more.

1:38:01I do think it adds to vibrancy

1:38:03and is reflective of who we are as a city.

1:38:07That is my preamble.

1:38:08I know in section 1.2,

1:38:11and I have interacted with staff

1:38:13on some of these questions already.

1:38:14I just think that it does part of our public discourse.

1:38:17It's good to have this information out there.

1:38:20Under roles in the report, section 1.2,

1:38:23the stakeholders listed in the report

1:38:26are community representatives, city staff and city council.

1:38:31I consider community representatives

1:38:33different than the community and citizens at large.

1:38:37I know we use our community engagement framework

1:38:39in everything we do,

1:38:40but I wonder if staff could elaborate

1:38:42on what community engagement practices will be used

1:38:47during the acquisition and display

1:38:50of our public art collection.

1:38:55Through the chair to the Councillor Caron.

1:38:59In terms of acquisition, selection of public art,

1:39:04there is process through the council appointed public art

1:39:09advisory committee to advise on

1:39:15and help us set calls to artists.

1:39:18And then there is a practice

1:39:19of the public art advisory committee,

1:39:22and community members on the public art advisory committee

1:39:25to be involved directly in the during and selection of calls

1:39:29for larger projects.

1:39:32We also engage with the public art advisory committee

1:39:35on smaller public art projects

1:39:37like the artists in residence program.

1:39:40And then for any major investments in public art

1:39:46or unique projects,

1:39:48we would engage with community engagement

1:39:53if there is a decision to be made outside of

1:39:58the direction we already have for public art.

1:40:01And in addition to that, the public art advisory committee,

1:40:06it has a say in all of our activity

1:40:09in terms of determining acquisitions, projects,

1:40:13and how we approach those.

1:40:15Okay, so specifically,

1:40:17other than the public art advisory committee,

1:40:21how would your average citizen who perhaps wants

1:40:24to participate in ideation on a theme?

1:40:28For example, an indigenous space having public art identity

1:40:36to it, how would your average citizen provide input

1:40:40into public art in general?

1:40:44Not specific acquisitions, not an RFPs

1:40:47or purchasing or commissioning specific pieces

1:40:55or a call for an artist competition,

1:40:58but just in general on public art

1:41:01and where a location for future public art

1:41:05or themes for public art,

1:41:06how would our citizens get involved

1:41:09in providing input into those decisions?

1:41:16Through the chair to Councillor Cronn.

1:41:19I think in the last couple of years

1:41:23and informing the culture plan

1:41:27that you will have an opportunity to see,

1:41:31we have had opportunity for community

1:41:35through our community engagement activities

1:41:36on the culture plan to advise us

1:41:39on aspirations for public art,

1:41:42suggestions for where public art should be located,

1:41:46identifying gaps for public art.

1:41:49And so we have received a lot of that input

1:41:51through our community engagement for the culture plan.

1:41:56In moving forward, we always welcome input from citizens

1:42:01and look forward to having one-on-one conversations,

1:42:06conversations with arts organizations

1:42:08and ongoing dialogue with the community.

1:42:10And then again, where there is an opportunity

1:42:13to explore major public art opportunities,

1:42:18we would go through a formal community engagement process

1:42:22as outlined in the community engagement framework.

1:42:25Okay, thanks.

1:42:27My second question had to do with

1:42:32the difference between an art and an artifact

1:42:35because the city collects artifacts,

1:42:38historical artifacts, anything from pieces of architecture,

1:42:44stained glass, carvings, stone gates,

1:42:51lentils or keystones from demolished buildings.

1:42:54We have quite a lot,

1:42:55and I know there's one in the lobby of the museum,

1:42:57there's signage, a beautiful sign from an old building.

1:43:00How does a city asset and become part

1:43:06of our public art collection,

1:43:08how do you determine what is art and what is an artifact?

1:43:14And how do you determine what is just put

1:43:18into a city storage facility

1:43:21versus put into the museum collection for potential display?

1:43:27Through the chair to Councillor Caron.

1:43:30So the difference between art and an artifact,

1:43:36we consider art to be creations

1:43:39that have been developed by artists

1:43:44that contribute to aesthetics,

1:43:49that make artistic statement,

1:43:52that are unique in their creation.

1:43:54An artifact is material,

1:43:56either objects or archival records

1:44:00that have historical cultural value.

1:44:03And so artifacts are,

1:44:09represent material that's acquired by

1:44:12and accepted into the museum collection.

1:44:15There is a process for acquiring that material

1:44:20that is quite robust.

1:44:22The material has to be aligned with the museum's mandate,

1:44:26our collecting mandate.

1:44:28We have to be assured that we have the ability,

1:44:30the storage space and the ability

1:44:32to care for that object and perpetuity.

1:44:36And when we are collecting those objects,

1:44:40they are sometimes for exhibition,

1:44:42oftentimes for research and education value.

1:44:45And so that's what an artifact is.

1:44:47From time to time material that is city property,

1:44:52that is deemed to have a historic value,

1:44:55has been offered to the museum via transfer.

1:45:00That material is considered by our acquisition committee.

1:45:05As we consider all material that's on offer

1:45:07to the museum collection.

1:45:09And if it meets our criteria for collecting,

1:45:13then we accept that transfer.

1:45:14And if it doesn't, we return, we decline the transfer.

1:45:19Okay, thank you.

1:45:20Sorry, my camera just slipped

1:45:21as we were talking some off screen again.

1:45:23I may not be centered,

1:45:24but thank you for that explanation.

1:45:26I know, I did a little bit of what's the difference

1:45:29between an art and artifacts,

1:45:31kind of Google unscientific research.

1:45:33And it's really an interesting conversation

1:45:36in the art community

1:45:37and in the conservation museum community

1:45:40on what the difference is.

1:45:41But so I think you've done a really amazing job

1:45:43synthesizing for me the difference.

1:45:46So thank you for that.

1:45:48And I don't have any more questions,

1:45:53but do we have the motion on the floor, Madam Chair?

1:45:55Because I would like to...

1:45:57No, so if you wanna put the motion on the floor,

1:46:00then if there are no more other questions,

1:46:02then I will go to comments.

1:46:06Okay.

1:46:07I'm happy to move the motions.

1:46:10And then I have one amendment to the report.

1:46:14Okay, wait for a seconder.

1:46:15Yeah.

1:46:16Okay, Councillor Orc is going to...

1:46:18Sure, can I have a question?

1:46:20Oh, Councillor Orc is gonna second it,

1:46:22but she has a question first.

1:46:23So if you could wait,

1:46:24Councillor Rosatel was up first for comments

1:46:27and then I'll come back to you, Councillor Caron.

1:46:33Question, Councillor Orc?

1:46:35Thanks Chair Downer, through you to staff.

1:46:37I have two questions, one about vandalism

1:46:39and one about revenue, which I enjoy.

1:46:43I'm wondering at a very high level,

1:46:46I see that there's a policy around insurance

1:46:49and there's a policy around,

1:46:50if there's a repeated vandalism,

1:46:52there'll be a decision about whether to retain

1:46:54that artwork there.

1:46:57But how do we prevent vandalism in the first place?

1:47:01And I'm thinking specifically of some of those lovely murals

1:47:03that were on the underpass that have been restored or removed.

1:47:07So how do we prevent vandalism in the first place?

1:47:13Through the chair to Councillor Orc,

1:47:16when considering citing public art,

1:47:19we do give consideration to environmental conditions

1:47:23and crime prevention through environmental design.

1:47:26So ensuring or considering lighting conditions,

1:47:31eyes on the site in terms of traffic.

1:47:36And so those are all considerations we make

1:47:38when citing public art.

1:47:43Thank you.

1:47:44And through you Chair Downer,

1:47:45the next question is the policy refers to

1:47:47having planning and building and economic development,

1:47:50talk to business, encourage them to have private art

1:47:54at their locations.

1:47:56And there's also a reference

1:47:57to private sponsorship for public art.

1:48:00So do we have mechanisms,

1:48:03even if we have a public art project that's planned

1:48:06through city funding,

1:48:08do we have a call out to sponsors

1:48:10to see if somebody would like to sponsor that piece of art?

1:48:13And so how do we invite the community in

1:48:17to sponsor public art or to create it on their own premises?

1:48:23Through the chair to Councillor Orc,

1:48:26I would say that we are open to opportunities to partner

1:48:31with private partners and sponsors

1:48:35in the acquisition or commissioning public art.

1:48:38We have not had the opportunity to be proactive about that,

1:48:41but it is certainly something we will consider

1:48:44and this policy allows for in terms of private contributions

1:48:48to the public art reserve fund.

1:48:51We have had experience though with community members

1:48:56stepping up and offering a donation of artworks

1:49:02and two examples that I can share with you.

1:49:07We did have a community group raise funds

1:49:09to develop a soapbox sculpture to honor Alan Pickerscale

1:49:14and offered that sculpture to the city

1:49:17through a public art donation.

1:49:19And so we accepted that.

1:49:21And back in 2013, 2014,

1:49:26there was a very active community fundraising campaign

1:49:30to raise funds that enabled the second casting

1:49:33of the In Flanders sculpture

1:49:36that is cited outside of the Civic Museum.

1:49:38And that sculpture was donated by the community to the city.

1:49:45So we do have precedent of having community member sponsor

1:49:49and donate towards public art,

1:49:54but we haven't had the opportunity to be proactive

1:49:56in developing a system for that.

1:50:03Okay, does anyone else have any questions?

1:50:07Okay, I'm gonna go to comments now,

1:50:09Councillor Busuttil first.

1:50:11Thank you very much and through you Chair Downer.

1:50:14As a European culture, I have sculptures

1:50:17and artists in my family and every doorknob in Genoa

1:50:20is handcrafted and the cemetery in Genoa

1:50:24has beautiful sculptures and so on.

1:50:25So I would hope that Councillor Caron was talking about

1:50:31and even Councillor Arorak about the policy references private,

1:50:35but I didn't see anything explicit about school boards

1:50:38like the upper grand district school board

1:50:40where I think about GCVI and the work that was done there.

1:50:43And for me, culture is everywhere.

1:50:46It's the food you eat and everything that you see.

1:50:48And I didn't see art and I'll speak to this in culture as well,

1:50:52but art is everywhere.

1:50:54It's in the bridges and everything that is done and planned.

1:50:59So I would hope that that happens.

1:51:01My second comment is I was a art gallery

1:51:04at Guelph board member for a number of years.

1:51:07And as a board member, I raise concerns.

1:51:09I live in the West End and I find that community devoid

1:51:14and I just had a European family over

1:51:18who found it very difficult to connect to the community

1:51:23because there weren't those historic and other landmarks.

1:51:26And again, I'll speak to this in culture,

1:51:29but thank you very much for this policy.

1:51:33Okay, thank you.

1:51:34Councillor Caron.

1:51:36Yeah, so I do wanna make one amendment.

1:51:39I was happy to put the motion on the floor.

1:51:41I did hear our staff and I recognize

1:51:45that our community engagement framework

1:51:48is embedded in what we do.

1:51:51But I think it's really important for a policy

1:51:53called public art that we make sure

1:51:58that the policy has the embedded language

1:52:02so that the public know that there is an engagement process

1:52:06at the front end and Mazad can alluded to that,

1:52:09that when it comes to identifying themes

1:52:12or identifying locations or cultural opportunities

1:52:20that the public is invited at the part of the process

1:52:26where we're developing the plan.

1:52:28And so I think we need to be a little stronger

1:52:30in community engagement.

1:52:31So my amendment, I did send it to clerks

1:52:35and I've talked to staff about this ahead of time via email.

1:52:44So my motion is that section 1.2 of the cultural plan,

1:52:51of the public art plan be amended

1:52:53with the addition of clause H

1:52:57that staff will ensure the role,

1:52:58and that's under role of city staff.

1:53:00So the role of city staff includes a list of A through G

1:53:04and I'm adding H to ensure that the community engagement

1:53:07framework is implemented early in the process

1:53:10of identifying opportunities for public art.

1:53:13And what I mean by that is locations and themes,

1:53:15not acquisition and jurying and selection of art,

1:53:20but early in the process

1:53:23as we're developing our public art acquisitions.

1:53:27So if I have a seconder for that,

1:53:28I think that adds some clarity to our policy.

1:53:33And then I have another amendment, another amendment.

1:53:36But I don't think that my other amendment.

1:53:38Councillor Kerron,

1:53:39can we just deal with this one amendment at a time?

1:53:41And I think your second motion is actually an addition,

1:53:44an additional motion, not an amendment.

1:53:46Agreed.

1:53:47But I just want to,

1:53:49was there a seconder for this first motion?

1:53:56Councillor Richardson.

1:53:58Okay.

1:54:00Are there any questions?

1:54:01So have you spoken enough to that, Councillor Kerron?

1:54:05Okay.

1:54:06Are there any questions for that motion?

1:54:10Mayor Guthrie and then Councillor Allt.

1:54:13Thank you very much, Chair Downer.

1:54:14It's actually.

1:54:15I recognize you, Guthrie.

1:54:16Oh, sorry.

1:54:17We're getting ahead of ourselves today.

1:54:19That's it.

1:54:20You're back in your own time zone now.

1:54:24Thank you.

1:54:25Through you Madam Chair.

1:54:27I just need to know what the impact to staff,

1:54:30how they interpret this.

1:54:33So how do you interpret this?

1:54:34What do you interpret it as what it means

1:54:36that you have to do?

1:54:38And what are the impacts staffing, finance, time frames?

1:54:42I'm concerned about,

1:54:44does this add a lot of time frames to something?

1:54:48So I just, I'm not opposed to it

1:54:51until I hear your answer.

1:54:53Thank you.

1:54:53So thank you.

1:54:54So through Chair Downer.

1:54:56So we had very brief sort of email discussions

1:55:00with Councillor Kerron about this earlier,

1:55:02but we, I had actually only until a moment ago,

1:55:04shared the motion with Evans and Ms. Edkin.

1:55:07So we probably need some time to actually better understand

1:55:10the intent and in fairness to speak to our colleagues

1:55:13within our community engagement team,

1:55:14because we have not done that yet today.

1:55:16So if this were to pass today,

1:55:19we would certainly want to take it back

1:55:21and have some further discussions internally between now

1:55:23and the council meeting so that we can get back to you,

1:55:25perhaps with some better response

1:55:26to the questions that you've asked.

1:55:28It would also probably we would benefit

1:55:30from a little bit more clarity

1:55:31on what Councillor Kerron's intent is.

1:55:33I will say that the community engagement framework

1:55:36guides everything that we do at the city already.

1:55:38And so I'm, so well, I can completely appreciate the desire

1:55:43to make sure that we are incorporating community engagement

1:55:46that by design already is embedded

1:55:48in everything that we do.

1:55:49So I think I want better understand the intent

1:55:52to see if this is in fact going to change the process

1:55:55for our public art advisory committee,

1:55:57or if this is something that we already sort of inherently do

1:56:01through our existing corporate community engagement framework.

1:56:03So I'm going to stop and look to my right

1:56:05because I actually haven't spoken to Ms. Evans

1:56:07or Ms. Hopkins about the specific motion.

1:56:10So I'll see if either of them wants to jump in for it.

1:56:13Through the chair.

1:56:14No, thank you, Ms. Clark Bush.

1:56:15I think certainly just understanding the policy

1:56:18does speak to an operational plan,

1:56:20which would talk to location sites,

1:56:23sort of general concepts, and that would be really great.

1:56:25And we absolutely have intent in further communication

1:56:28to make a more robust and publicly available

1:56:32sort of operations plan in relation to public art.

1:56:35Where we'd love to take this offline with the counselor

1:56:38is then, is it in relation to every new possible acquisition

1:56:42or funding or if a sponsor comes forward

1:56:46with an opportunity where again,

1:56:48are we duplicating the work of the current public art committee?

1:56:51That's where we would probably hit some resourcing timing

1:56:54and potentially financial concerns.

1:56:57But I think that taking this offline with the counselor

1:57:00can find some great opportunity to know

1:57:03that the community has opportunity

1:57:04to participate in public art and we love that.

1:57:08So I just...

1:57:08So, I'm not...

1:57:10I just wonder given staff comments,

1:57:12Councillor Ciaran, if you want an opportunity

1:57:15to withdraw that and bring it back

1:57:19and have more discussion with staff on this.

1:57:22Absolutely, I'm willing to do so.

1:57:24So I'll withdraw the motion.

1:57:27My intent is that I don't see the words community,

1:57:31engagement framework, anywhere in the public art policy

1:57:34and maybe I've missed it when I've read it,

1:57:36but I've read it a few times.

1:57:38So I wanna make sure that that language is in there.

1:57:42And the list of stakeholders in the policy

1:57:45says community representatives, staff and council.

1:57:50And I think the public art advisory committee

1:57:53as community representatives isn't broad enough.

1:57:56So that's my intent.

1:57:58I'm willing to withdraw the amendment

1:58:01back at the end of the month

1:58:03once I've had some clarity with staff.

1:58:05Okay.

1:58:05Is the seconder willing to withdraw as well?

1:58:08Councillor Richardson?

1:58:11Yes, okay.

1:58:12So that motion has been withdrawn

1:58:15but understanding that that may come back

1:58:17at the end of the month.

1:58:18So, sorry, Mayor Guthrie?

1:58:21Yeah, could I just have the floor then?

1:58:22Just just one follow-up then.

1:58:23Thank you through you.

1:58:25I just want to understand

1:58:28it's becoming kind of normal practice,

1:58:30which by the way, I actually like,

1:58:32where this discussion is really good and open

1:58:34amongst kind of poking and prodding

1:58:36about different issues that are in front of us.

1:58:38And then staff kind of bring a memo forward

1:58:40at the end of the month with sometimes

1:58:42where we're just needing a little bit of clarity

1:58:44to understand whether or not we do move forward

1:58:46with an actual motion or not.

1:58:48Are staff taking what Councillor Caron mentioned

1:58:51as does it meet sort of your suggestions of a memo

1:58:56to all of council and which includes the public

1:58:59that could then be attached to the updated agenda?

1:59:02I just would rather, because again,

1:59:04I wasn't a no or a yes on what the Councillor was asking.

1:59:08I just wanted more information myself on it too.

1:59:10So is there a way that this could be brought forward

1:59:14as a memo instead of just like emails

1:59:16or conversations with Councillor Caron,

1:59:17just so that we're all in the loop?

1:59:20Through the chair to the mayor,

1:59:21absolutely we will endeavor to make sure we have that out.

1:59:25We're tight on time in October

1:59:27because of the timing of the meetings,

1:59:28but we will try to get that out on the regular agenda

1:59:30and if not on the addendum for sure.

1:59:32But we will work with Councillor Caron

1:59:34within the next week to get a memo completed

1:59:37and out for council and public consideration.

1:59:42Okay, thank you.

1:59:43So I believe Councillor Caron,

1:59:46your next motion is an additional one.

1:59:50It's not an amendment to the main one.

1:59:54So I'm gonna take the vote.

1:59:56Is there any more questions or comments

1:59:58on the main motion for the public art policy?

2:00:02And thanks for staff for bringing this forward.

2:00:05All the work.

2:00:07Okay, so I'm going to ask,

2:00:09is there anyone opposed to this motion, to the motion?

2:00:16Okay, I haven't seen none, that's passed.

2:00:20Okay, and I'm gonna pass the floor over to you.

2:00:22Councillor Caron, you have another motion

2:00:24that you would like us to consider.

2:00:27I do, Madam Chair.

2:00:29And this is a specific,

2:00:34it has to do with the discussion

2:00:36between the difference between art and artifact.

2:00:41And there's some voids in that definition.

2:00:46And specifically, I'm speaking about the artifact

2:00:52of the City Hall Bell from 1857 and the City Hall Clock,

2:00:59which have been in a storage facility for decades.

2:01:01And we talked about it in public about,

2:01:05where are they, what are we doing with them,

2:01:07why are they sitting in storage?

2:01:08And had lots of conversations with city staff about that.

2:01:11So I don't wanna go through all of that.

2:01:13But they're in that gap zone.

2:01:16They're not technically art,

2:01:19they're not part of the museum collection,

2:01:20and they're not part of our public art collection.

2:01:23But they're not artifacts that are in a collection,

2:01:26they're just city assets that belong to the people of Guelph

2:01:30that have been sitting in storage.

2:01:31And one of those items has recently been installed

2:01:38in the interior courtyard in City Hall,

2:01:40which I think is a great news story, it's a beautiful space.

2:01:44But I would like to put a motion on the floor

2:01:48that because we have this policy void for those two items,

2:01:53and because I consider those two items

2:01:55to be two of the most significant pieces

2:02:00of our city's cultural heritage,

2:02:05I also consider them to be art.

2:02:08I think what we need to do is specifically,

2:02:12and just as part of my preamble,

2:02:15this was the only place I could land.

2:02:18This matter, this issue,

2:02:20I know it seems like it's outside of our discussion today,

2:02:23and for that I apologize,

2:02:25but there's really no other place for this to land,

2:02:28and get council direction on.

2:02:30So this was the advice that I was given

2:02:32as the place to land it.

2:02:35So my motion is that the potential future relocation

2:02:39of the City Hall bell and clock be referred back to staff

2:02:43in consultation with the Public Art Advisory Committee,

2:02:46which is what we're talking about today,

2:02:47and the Guelph Museum Board, which deals with artifacts,

2:02:50for costing and prioritization

2:02:52as part of a commemorative celebrations in 2027.

2:02:56There have been a lot of community conversations

2:02:58about the bell and the clock,

2:02:59and I think there's a disconnect in where it's landed.

2:03:03So if this gets referred back to staff,

2:03:06then we can have those conversations

2:03:08in the appropriate place.

2:03:09Is there a seconder for this motion?

2:03:13Councillor Allt.

2:03:16Okay, is there any discussion or questions

2:03:20that anyone else, okay, councillor Orr-Werck?

2:03:24Thank you, Chair Downer.

2:03:25Through you to the mover.

2:03:27I'm just curious, I'm sorry,

2:03:28we've lost the text for the motion.

2:03:32So the bell has been installed in the courtyard

2:03:35for the moment, but are you saying

2:03:37we should prioritize its relocation,

2:03:39or you're saying we should consider

2:03:42what we do with the clock and the bell

2:03:45in the context of the 2027 celebrations?

2:03:50It is that the potential future relocation

2:03:53be referred back to staff.

2:03:56In consultation with our art committee

2:03:59and our artifact committee

2:04:03to review the costing and prioritization

2:04:05of whether or not it would be included

2:04:07in our bicentennial celebrations.

2:04:09There's no predetermined outcome that that would occur,

2:04:14but we haven't had that discussion.

2:04:17And the only way to get it into the discussion

2:04:19is to refer it back to staff.

2:04:21Okay, thank you.

2:04:24Councillor Allt.

2:04:26Thank you very much, Chair Downer.

2:04:29The reason I seconded this is because I think

2:04:31that it's incredibly important that we show

2:04:34that we have, that we're taking,

2:04:37believe faith with the community

2:04:38that is very anxious to get on with 2027.

2:04:42And it seems to me that these two particular artifacts

2:04:45are equally appropriate for really starting

2:04:49City Council to look at these particular items

2:04:52that we might consider as part of the 2027 commemoration

2:04:55and show the public that it's not

2:04:57that we're sleeping on this,

2:04:58we're doing something that matters

2:05:00in the context of city icons that we already have.

2:05:05I think that this is positive.

2:05:07And I think that the other thing that's really important

2:05:08is this will clearly have a cost item associated with it

2:05:12and we'll have staff weigh in on the appropriateness

2:05:15of what we might do with these items as well.

2:05:19Thank you.

2:05:20Other questions?

2:05:21Mayor Guthrie, because I have a question too.

2:05:23Yeah, thank you.

2:05:24Through you, Madam Chair.

2:05:25I just want to make sure I understand the 200th anniversary.

2:05:32Like that, isn't that committee like already going?

2:05:35Isn't there already, is that,

2:05:38or is it about to become established?

2:05:40I forget, I'm so sorry.

2:05:42Just can't remember.

2:05:44So through Chair Downer,

2:05:46so if now that I'm talking,

2:05:48I can provide a couple of points of clarity on the motion.

2:05:51The bicentennial, so Council has received

2:05:54previous information and I will let Ms. Evans jump in

2:05:57on where we're at in the planning process

2:05:58for the bicentennial.

2:06:00But the one note that I want to make sure I make

2:06:02is that the bicentennial in terms of our planning process

2:06:06is in, needs to be referred to the multi-year budget process.

2:06:09So that is kind of the next step.

2:06:11And so it's difficult for us to comment on this motion

2:06:15in advance of that multi-year budget

2:06:16because we don't know what is going to be considered

2:06:20as the budget that we have to work with for the bicentennial.

2:06:23So we're a little bit premature, I would say.

2:06:28The other sort of quick notes that I,

2:06:31it's okay for me to keep going

2:06:33on something that the Mayor didn't ask.

2:06:35Just for clarity on the motion,

2:06:36we don't have a Guelph Museums Board anymore.

2:06:39We do have a Guelph Museums Advisory Committee.

2:06:41It's a really subtle nuance,

2:06:43but the museum is a department of the city of Guelph.

2:06:45So depending on the mover's comfort level with that,

2:06:48there is a little bit of clarity there.

2:06:49And then the other note that I just really want to make sure

2:06:52that I make on the record is that while the bell

2:06:55has been installed in the courtyard and is on display now,

2:06:59I don't want to leave the impression

2:07:01that we have a complete understanding

2:07:03of the state of the clock

2:07:05and what could be done with the clock

2:07:07because it was dismantled many, many, many years ago

2:07:10by none of us who are on staff now.

2:07:12And so, and I provided that clarity,

2:07:14I think in the email to Councillor Caron earlier today.

2:07:17So a next step for us with the clock in particular

2:07:20is probably even looking to see what we have

2:07:23in terms of the pieces

2:07:24because we don't know if the individuals

2:07:26who took it apart many decades ago,

2:07:28whether they kept enough of the pieces

2:07:30that we can actually put it back together

2:07:33as a functional foresighted clock,

2:07:35which is what I believe it was.

2:07:36And so again, it's not that we are being contrary

2:07:39to the motion that Councillor Caron has put forward.

2:07:41We are more than happy to take this away

2:07:43and look at all of those options,

2:07:44but I just wanted to make sure that I had stated that.

2:07:47But if I can come back to the mayor's original question,

2:07:49maybe I'll let Dana or Tammy jump in

2:07:51on the bicentennial planning.

2:07:53Thank you through the chair to the mayor.

2:07:55Yes, we're a little bit ahead of ourselves

2:07:57in the sense of looking for some budget support.

2:08:00We've have suggested to, from staff, to the executive team,

2:08:05a plan that looks at sort of some major events,

2:08:08community partnerships, even legacy naming

2:08:11and some other themes, very much conditional

2:08:13on some budget support for resources.

2:08:16That also, that plan includes a community citizen

2:08:19advisory committee that we would establish in 25,

2:08:23or as Councillor Allt alluded,

2:08:25great interest in wanting to start that,

2:08:26so potentially earlier, that would look to take

2:08:30the sort of funding envelope and reestablish.

2:08:33So just because we have a rough plan,

2:08:35we've presented we're not tied to anything,

2:08:37so there is some flexibility there.

2:08:41I think you'll find it a little more conservative

2:08:43of a budget request versus some of the large asks,

2:08:46multimillion dollar requests that we've had

2:08:48sort of come through from community,

2:08:50but with Council's will, we can provide you

2:08:53some more detail on that going forward.

2:08:57Okay, thank you.

2:08:59Councillor Bruce-A-Tail and then Mayor Gretzky.

2:09:01Nice to have you.

2:09:02Oh, okay, go ahead.

2:09:05Thank you, thank you, Councillor.

2:09:06Thank you through your chair.

2:09:08So I'd like to move an amendment.

2:09:10Sorry, the wording of the original one

2:09:11wasn't up on the screen, so I'm gonna have to send it through,

2:09:14but to strike any reference to the bell,

2:09:17the bell, so I'll just stop there.

2:09:21The bell's been established and it's beautiful where it is.

2:09:25I don't mind the allocation question in regards to the clock,

2:09:30but so I don't know if I have a seconder for that,

2:09:34Madam Chair, but like it's-

2:09:36Is there a seconder for that amendment?

2:09:37It's there, it's done.

2:09:39Is there a seconder for that amendment?

2:09:44I don't see.

2:09:44Okay.

2:09:45Oh, Councillor Gibson.

2:09:49All right, well then if I can just speak for a moment.

2:09:52There, you know, the bell is, it is where it is.

2:10:00I feel that it's in a public enough area

2:10:04and I think it's beautifully displayed

2:10:10in a place where it works.

2:10:12And so, you know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder,

2:10:14so I have a lens that I look through on this

2:10:17and others may have something different,

2:10:19but with a lot of prioritization in regards to finances

2:10:25and where we're putting our energy and money

2:10:28into things in this city,

2:10:29reallocating a bell at this point

2:10:33is just not on a priority list for me.

2:10:36And so I have no problem in referring to the clock issue,

2:10:40but I would hope that my colleagues understand

2:10:43the prioritization of things in front of us here

2:10:47for our community.

2:10:48I just don't see this very high on the priority list

2:10:51of trying to move a bell.

2:10:54Thank you.

2:10:57Councillor Ciaran.

2:10:59Since we're just speaking to the amendment,

2:11:04I'm obviously going to vote against.

2:11:07It's great that we have a lens

2:11:10on where the bell is currently located

2:11:11because we can see it.

2:11:13It is not visible to the public.

2:11:16It is not accessible to the public.

2:11:19Even during operating hours,

2:11:21it isn't an inaccessible location.

2:11:24There are no door openers, no access.

2:11:26You have to book the space.

2:11:27You have to go through security.

2:11:30There was no public consultation.

2:11:31This was a staff decision to relocate the bell.

2:11:34I don't think that this is the place to have that discussion.

2:11:38I think the place to have the discussion

2:11:40for where the bell was located

2:11:43should have been a public discussion.

2:11:45And that is why I want to try to bring it back

2:11:48into a public discussion through this motion.

2:11:52I'm not presupposing the outcome.

2:11:54Don't get me wrong.

2:11:54The outcome to this motion could be that staff

2:11:57and the community and the public art advisory

2:12:00and the Guelph Museum Board decide

2:12:03that this is the appropriate location for the bell.

2:12:05I'd be okay with that if there was a community consultation

2:12:11that led to that conclusion.

2:12:12So if we leave the bell in the motion,

2:12:14we'll have that community consultation.

2:12:16If we take it out, the public cannot weigh in

2:12:21on the most significant piece of the city's cultural heritage

2:12:26that we have in our possession.

2:12:32Thank you, Councillor Lucetill.

2:12:34Yes, thank you.

2:12:35And through you, Madam Chair,

2:12:37I'm turning to staff because I'm new, a new Councillor.

2:12:40I can still use that.

2:12:42I really don't understand the process

2:12:44that was undertaking to where we are right now.

2:12:48Is there a process, a report or something that I'm missing

2:12:52around the decision around the location of the bell,

2:12:55whether it's heritage Guelph or whoever,

2:12:58how did we come to right now

2:13:00so that I have a better understanding of how we got here?

2:13:03Thank you.

2:13:04Thank you.

2:13:05And through the chair to Councillor Lucetill.

2:13:07So as we were going through the design process

2:13:10for the courtyard,

2:13:13one of the ideas did come from our staff

2:13:17to incorporate the bell.

2:13:19We thought that it would be actually a nice,

2:13:22not in a connection between the old city hall

2:13:25and the new city hall.

2:13:28And so we did coordinate with Heritage Guelph staff

2:13:34and the museum staff as well,

2:13:35just to try and get some information

2:13:38and went through the usual approval process

2:13:40that we do through the steering committee

2:13:43and through the executive team.

2:13:46I will say that there was no,

2:13:48it wasn't outside of city staff

2:13:51that we had that collaboration with.

2:13:54It was all internal staff,

2:13:56but we thought that the bell was sitting in storage

2:14:02for the longest time and we thought this was a great way

2:14:05of getting it out into a place of significance.

2:14:08Now, it's not necessarily a public space,

2:14:11as Councillor Caron had mentioned,

2:14:13but we thought it was appropriate

2:14:15just in terms of the connection to the new city hall,

2:14:18but also provides a bit of,

2:14:22as a focal point, if you will, for special events,

2:14:27whether they be weddings, tours, things like that.

2:14:29So again, we did talk to Councillor Caron

2:14:33and we thought we had done a good thing

2:14:35in terms of bringing something

2:14:37that was just sitting at 45 Municipal

2:14:40out into the light, if you will.

2:14:43I know it wasn't intended to be so,

2:14:45but it was a bit of a gut punch when we did hear

2:14:47that it wasn't approved or wasn't accepted.

2:14:53So anyway, it's there now and I think it looks great.

2:14:58The other thing we were also trying to consider as well

2:15:01is the fact that we wanted it in a place

2:15:03where it was protected from vandalism as well,

2:15:06so we thought that might be,

2:15:09we were trying to balance a whole bunch of things

2:15:11by making sure that it saw the light of day,

2:15:15but was not subject to some of the vandalism

2:15:17that we do see for some of the public art.

2:15:19So that's how we got here,

2:15:22but we're happy to take Council's direction

2:15:25on where they want to go next.

2:15:27It will be significant cost

2:15:29because we did have to crane that in.

2:15:30It is doweled into the foundation,

2:15:32so there will be costs associated, of course,

2:15:35with moving it at a later date.

2:15:38Thank you.

2:15:41Councillor Old.

2:15:42Thank you very much, Chair Downer.

2:15:45I too will not support the motion.

2:15:48I think that primary two, Councillor Kerron's motion,

2:15:51actually is the question of where the bell is located.

2:15:54And I too am not presuming the outcome,

2:15:56but there are a couple of things

2:15:58that I think are really to be appreciated.

2:16:01I appreciate that the bell has come out of storage,

2:16:04and I appreciate in my mind

2:16:06that that is a temporary location, possibly,

2:16:09or perhaps a permanent one.

2:16:10I will not presume the outcome

2:16:12of whatever deliberations occur

2:16:14and whatever budget determinations occur,

2:16:17but the bell has always been a public icon.

2:16:21It was in the history of Guelph

2:16:23something that people actually relied on,

2:16:25believe it or not, to tell time.

2:16:27And as a consequence of that,

2:16:29we should recognize that it should be publicly present.

2:16:32It should be something that people can again engage in easily.

2:16:36And maybe, I don't think it's exactly the same,

2:16:39but like the Liberty Bell in Philadelphia,

2:16:42become an icon that people will refer to

2:16:44in their visitations downtown.

2:16:50Are there any more comments?

2:16:51Oh, Councillor Lucitell and then Councillor O'Rourke.

2:16:54Thank you.

2:16:55Again, I just have a question for staff.

2:16:57So I'm clear.

2:16:59Is there the Bicentennial Committee already established?

2:17:02I don't mean the staff one.

2:17:03Is there a public one?

2:17:04And just around the timelines,

2:17:06we're about to start the multi-year budget.

2:17:08If there is a committee to be established

2:17:11and to have this dialogue,

2:17:12they're gonna kind of miss informing

2:17:16any budget considerations.

2:17:17Can you help me understand what already exists

2:17:19and the processes?

2:17:23Through the mayor to the Councillor.

2:17:25We're definitely in a bit of a justice position

2:17:29around looking for something for 2027.

2:17:32Just because we're putting forward some,

2:17:34a budget request that is coming from staff

2:17:36to Council for consideration,

2:17:38does not preclude the community

2:17:40and the community celebration.

2:17:42We can't do it alone anyway, or just on the taxpayer.

2:17:45We need partnerships, we need collaborations,

2:17:48even matching development or sponsorship.

2:17:51We need some programs.

2:17:53In our current resources,

2:17:55though we can't take on that level of work right now.

2:17:58So part of your budget request is for some contract staff

2:18:01to help support and develop that.

2:18:03So currently the committee,

2:18:05the citizen committee is not started,

2:18:08is not established.

2:18:10The sort of compromise for community partnership

2:18:13was a sort of small, quiet,

2:18:16just hearing from folks taking and collaborating.

2:18:19So we did, we have heard from some people

2:18:21last little bit.

2:18:23It is not a robust community engagement plan at the moment

2:18:26and we will take that on in the coming years.

2:18:31Again, from a staffing resource point of view,

2:18:33we needed some support to help fund that.

2:18:35If we do, are successful with some funding from you

2:18:38to help leverage these other opportunities,

2:18:40including even some federal provincial grant funding,

2:18:43then we can not necessarily be tied to any one thing.

2:18:47We would be tied to the funding envelope.

2:18:49So there still would be a lot of flexibility

2:18:51for community to be able to help shape

2:18:55what a celebration in 2027 would look like.

2:18:59Thank you, just so I'm perfectly clear,

2:19:01there is no citizen committee at this point in time

2:19:04and it would have to go through

2:19:05the public appointment process, is that correct?

2:19:08At the moment we're suggesting just a call for a committee

2:19:11rather than the time through public participation,

2:19:16but a clear and open transparent opportunity

2:19:18for lots of community members to participate.

2:19:22And so that would be in Q1, 2024?

2:19:26At this moment we've marked 2025 as starting this work,

2:19:30but recognizing that things are evolving

2:19:33and changing on a daily basis that we may need

2:19:35to move forward as soon as budgets approved.

2:19:42Councillor Wurk.

2:19:45Thank you Chair Downer, I'm just struggling

2:19:48with this motion and maybe I can't get my head around

2:19:52how important the bell is.

2:19:55And I regret that there was no public process to this point,

2:20:00but it has been installed and they have very little appetite

2:20:03and really to pay to move it.

2:20:06So through you Chair Downer, I guess I have a question.

2:20:10Do we not have in our meeting rooms at the back public art?

2:20:14Are there not throughout the city other places

2:20:16where the public can access, not as freely obviously

2:20:20as our main hall or a library or rec center,

2:20:26but do we have other places where there's artifacts

2:20:31that aren't on regular display?

2:20:33I am genuinely struggling with this.

2:20:37And at the same time, I have a concern about priorities

2:20:41and budgets, so through staff, are there other instances

2:20:45where important artifacts are not easily accessible?

2:20:50So through the chair to councillor Wurk,

2:20:52we certainly have other locations even here at city hall.

2:20:54We have our installations in all four of our meeting rooms

2:20:56across the back of city hall that are not publicly accessible.

2:21:00And so sometimes we do make those choices.

2:21:02And I certainly hearing the discussion

2:21:05and like Ms. Holmes said, I think it genuinely

2:21:08caught us off guard because staff took such a great effort

2:21:12to get something that has really been languishing in storage

2:21:16out into what we felt was, as Jane has said,

2:21:19a safe location because that is a huge concern for us.

2:21:23And we are committed to looking and having conversation

2:21:27that the renovation of the courtyard here at city hall

2:21:30has only been finished for about three days, I think.

2:21:33And so we haven't yet even had the conversation

2:21:36about what does access now look like.

2:21:38I think we've had three sets of wedding photos there already,

2:21:40which is fantastic.

2:21:41So we know that it is publicly accessible for wedding photos.

2:21:44We're gonna have some further conversations

2:21:46about what does access to that courtyard look like

2:21:49during the day.

2:21:50It isn't actually the only artifact we have out there.

2:21:54We also have the center ice circle

2:21:56from when this was the Memorial Gardens Arena,

2:21:59as well that was also reinstalled out in the courtyard.

2:22:01And so we have a couple of things in the courtyard.

2:22:04There's been some discussions

2:22:05about how we make sure we commemorate that.

2:22:09Absolutely hearing the feedback about the public process.

2:22:13We are here where we're at right now,

2:22:15I think for all of the best of intentions.

2:22:18Moving forward, the bicentennial,

2:22:20certainly when we talk about the clock,

2:22:23that is a good conversation to have

2:22:25because quite frankly, I don't wanna be sitting here

2:22:27in 15 years and we make a decision about what to do

2:22:29with the clock and we make a similar error.

2:22:32But my concern, as I stated about the clock is,

2:22:34I also don't wanna make promises that we can't deliver.

2:22:37And so, and then the last thing just that I'll say

2:22:39on the bicentennial, there is gonna be a budget reality

2:22:42for the bicentennial, Ms. Evans sort of alluded to that.

2:22:45I don't wanna leave anyone with the impression

2:22:47that the bicentennial budget is going to be able to afford

2:22:49to bear the costs of relocating the bell,

2:22:51even if that's what a community engagement process told us.

2:22:57Because the community engagement process

2:22:59to date on the bicentennial has told us

2:23:01we need millions of dollars to commemorate the bicentennial

2:23:04and that's not what you're gonna see in the budget ask.

2:23:06Staff are coming back with what we feel

2:23:08is a more reasonable budget ask,

2:23:09given the budget pressures that we're facing

2:23:12and balancing all of the importance

2:23:15of celebrating the bicentennial,

2:23:17but also recognizing that we need to do it

2:23:19within the context of a time

2:23:24when we need to be very sensitive

2:23:26to what celebrating some of these more colonial milestones

2:23:28can mean for many, many members of our community.

2:23:30So there's a lot of competing interests

2:23:33and I'm not trying to suggest that that all needs to play

2:23:36into your decision about the bell and the clock right now.

2:23:38Certainly, if you want to send it back

2:23:40to the Public Art Advisory Committee

2:23:42and the Guelph Museum's Advisory Committee,

2:23:44we will come back with a recommendation

2:23:47for both the bell and the clock with all of the information.

2:23:50I just don't wanna publicly sort of leave the impression

2:23:53that, and I know Councillor Caron has already stated that.

2:23:56She's not presuming the outcome and I appreciate that.

2:23:59Neither are we.

2:24:00So if this motion passes, we will take it away

2:24:02and we will do that work and have the conversation

2:24:05with those two committees

2:24:07and then eventually the Bicentennial Working Group

2:24:09or whatever we're calling them.

2:24:10I don't know if we've named them yet,

2:24:12but I just wanna be very open and transparent

2:24:15that I don't know that in either the case of the bell

2:24:17or the clock that we can easily presume

2:24:20a different outcome than we are currently looking at

2:24:23right now.

2:24:27So Chair Downer, I just wanna make sure

2:24:31I'm understanding correctly

2:24:33through you Chair Downer and staff.

2:24:34So if the amendment fails,

2:24:38then people will tell us what the bell means,

2:24:41what the clock means, what some options might be.

2:24:44It would just provide more information

2:24:46and then another opportunity to say,

2:24:48it's great where it is or move it

2:24:50or we could move it what it would be this much

2:24:52and we would have another opportunity to say no

2:24:53at that time, is that correct?

2:24:55So through the Chair, I'm actually gonna admit

2:24:57that I've a little bit lost the plot on the amendment

2:24:59on what we're talking about.

2:25:00So I'll maybe answer in a specific way.

2:25:02Remove the bell.

2:25:03If you do not give us direction about the bell,

2:25:06the bell will stay exactly where it is

2:25:07and we will look at opportunities for public access

2:25:10and education about the bell.

2:25:12If you do nothing today,

2:25:13we are still going to do that work.

2:25:16If you direct us to have conversations about the bell,

2:25:19we will look at whether the bell should be, could be,

2:25:24is it potential for relocation at a later date or not?

2:25:27And we would then consider that and come back.

2:25:31In terms of the clock, at this point,

2:25:34staff have no plans to look at what is going to happen

2:25:39to the clock beyond we continue to store it.

2:25:43We have no immediate plans,

2:25:44although certainly through the bicentennial,

2:25:46I would imagine we might talk about the clock,

2:25:49but regardless of what you do about the clock,

2:25:52the very first step for staff is gonna be figuring out

2:25:56who can help us figure out what we even have

2:25:58in terms of the clock and whether we have something

2:26:01that could be made into an art installation

2:26:04with pieces of the clock or whether we actually have

2:26:06enough pieces that we would ever have

2:26:08a functional clock face and I don't know the answer to that.

2:26:11Sorry, I don't know if that helped.

2:26:13Hey, Councillor Cossin, did you have your hand up?

2:26:18I did, but it was answered in Deputy CAO's

2:26:22clock wishes response after I put my hand up.

2:26:25Thank you.

2:26:26Okay, great, thanks.

2:26:27I am gonna support the mayor's motion.

2:26:29Maybe surprising to some as you know my history with heritage,

2:26:33but I'm okay where it is.

2:26:37It was in the old city hall.

2:26:39It's been moved to the center of the new city hall.

2:26:42I think it creates a sense of space for our place

2:26:45for our staff here, all the staff

2:26:47that come through this building.

2:26:49I think that's great.

2:26:50I think it is visible, I'm a number of angles.

2:26:54I'm not sure, but I think it's even visible

2:26:55from the Margaret McKinnon room,

2:26:59which is where we hold most of the public meetings

2:27:01in city hall.

2:27:03So I'm quite happy with, you know,

2:27:06while I don't like the process and I would have preferred,

2:27:09you know, better discussion about it,

2:27:11I'm quite happy to leave it where it is

2:27:13because it creates that sense of space

2:27:15within the city hall from the old city hall.

2:27:18And I actually chaired the redevelopment committee

2:27:21of this building and I think it, to me,

2:27:24it just sort of makes that nice connection here.

2:27:27And maybe it might have been better out front or not.

2:27:30I don't know, maybe there's something else we can do there,

2:27:32but I'm okay, I'm accepting the decision

2:27:37that was made by staff.

2:27:39And I'm okay with it being where it is.

2:27:42So I will vote in favor of the mayor's motion.

2:27:45So is there anyone opposed to the mayor's motion?

2:27:56So on the screen, I see two, three in here.

2:28:03So three are opposed.

2:28:06That would mean that we have nine in favor, is that?

2:28:11Correct?

2:28:14Oh, 10, sorry.

2:28:16My math, not good.

2:28:1710 in favor, is that correct?

2:28:19Mr. Court, okay.

2:28:21Okay, so that motion passes.

2:28:22So let's go back to the main amended motion.

2:28:31If you could put up the new motion,

2:28:35I guess that's what we'll be seeing.

2:28:37Because I'm not sure if, it has to be amended to,

2:28:41to the, it's not a board, it's,

2:28:46so the potential future relocation

2:28:48of the city hall clock be referred to staff

2:28:51in consultation with the public art advisory committee.

2:28:55And this now needs to read the Guelph Museum

2:28:58advisory committee for costing and prioritization

2:29:02as part of the commemorative celebrations in 2027.

2:29:10I just want to make one thing clear here.

2:29:13To me, the motion sounds like that,

2:29:15that we're making a decision for it to be part of the

2:29:18commemorative celebrations of 2027.

2:29:21It's kind of the way it's worded.

2:29:23And so it's, but I know that's not the intent.

2:29:35Okay.

2:29:37So Mayor Guthrie is, is suggesting an amendment

2:29:41to make that prioritization consideration.

2:29:44Would you be willing to change that also to the?

2:29:46Yes, Madam Chair.

2:29:47Yes.

2:29:49I'd like to make an amendment to change the word

2:29:50prioritization to consideration.

2:29:53And I think we'll be going to, yes.

2:29:55Councillor Busuttil will, will second that amendment.

2:30:02Okay. And would you, and okay.

2:30:05So is there any discussion on that consideration?

2:30:11Okay.

2:30:12Is anyone opposed to that?

2:30:15Okay.

2:30:16And then the second amendment we need is to change that

2:30:20to the advisory committee instead of the board

2:30:22or the museum.

2:30:23Can I have somebody move an amendment for that?

2:30:25Councillor work and councillor Busuttil.

2:30:27Any discussion on that?

2:30:29Okay. Seeing none.

2:30:31Anyone opposed?

2:30:33Okay. That passes.

2:30:35Okay. Let's go back to the main motion as amended.

2:30:44Those were a quick couple of motions there.

2:30:48If we could have that put up.

2:31:41All right.

2:31:42That the potential future relocation of the city hall

2:31:43clock be referred to staff consultation with the public

2:31:46advisory committee and the growth museum advisory committee

2:31:50costing and consideration as part of the current

2:31:52member of celebrations in 20, 27.

2:31:55Okay. I'm not going to, we're not going to discuss this

2:31:58anymore. So is there anyone opposed to this?

2:32:03Okay. That motion passes.

2:32:06Thank you.

2:32:10So now we are going to move on to, oh Councillor Curran

2:32:15do you have another motion?

2:32:17I don't have another motion.

2:32:18I wanted a closing comment.

2:32:19I did not want this discussion to focus on these two matters.

2:32:22So I just want to conclude this public art section of the agenda with positive comments

2:32:29that this is that this just shows you how important expressions of culture through public art

2:32:36are to our community.

2:32:38And thanks staff for the excellent work in bringing this forward.

2:32:43Thanks.

2:32:44Thanks Councillor Caron.

2:32:45Thanks for any of that unpositive note.

2:32:47I agree.

2:32:48Okay.

2:32:49We're going to go on to 9.2 the culture plan 2030 staff report.