Staff to review and compile options on addressing and defining graffiti, both impacting city and private properties…

1:19:54and you have there is no staff report this is the motion that the mayor has brought forward

1:20:01and you have a motion in front of us which I presume he will move.

1:20:06Thank you Chair and through you to my colleagues. Well right off the bat I just want to say thank

1:20:12you I've talked to a few of you talked to a few of you even just before the meeting I have

1:20:17an hour ago I think or so I sent an email to everybody just indicating that I've listened

1:20:23to some of my colleagues feedback and I agreed with you on on that feedback and so I've actually

1:20:30I'm going to change the direction to go here today if it's the will of committee

1:20:39and here it is here so before I read it out loud it's just that I

1:20:48originally was more very prescriptive I guess that's probably the better word to say

1:20:52and really giving direction to do something create an actual bylaw draft bylaw and come back

1:20:59and speaking to some of my colleagues it's more like I guess I'm just kind of going a

1:21:03little bit higher level without being as prescriptive and asking staff to review and compile options

1:21:09and to come back and and then you know maybe a bylaw is is right maybe it's not maybe it's a

1:21:15combination of both or something else I don't know that's that's their prerogative to give us

1:21:20their best advice on that when they come back they're still okay with the end of Q1 2026

1:21:26on the time frame and since you know this kind of has bubbled up in the community over the last

1:21:32little while there's been some reach out for people to be like hey is there an opportunity

1:21:37for volunteerism to come together as a community to engage in cleaning some things up what about

1:21:42murals and art and so I put some of that in there at public education campaigns

1:21:49and and the final thing I would just say the partnerships with faster removal on private

1:21:53property you know most of the things that are being tagged are like either provincial like you

1:21:59know bridges and and and concrete columns and such all the canada post boxes the hydro boxes like

1:22:06and and those actually aren't city assets right you think about what many of us got emails about

1:22:14over the last little while with the Metrolinx bridge and stuff like that our staff are doing a

1:22:21great job when they are notified that they are they are actually contacting the owner of of those

1:22:27assets but then there's like this huge like delay and it's like well maybe you should do it or

1:22:33they're responsible and so I'm just wondering if there's a ways while staff are being directed

1:22:39to go and review this to come back with maybe better ways of having some partnerships and

1:22:44agreements with other owners of those assets to be a bit more diligent if I could say that word

1:22:51in in in the removal um yeah I just you know look I I'll just end on this I I have found

1:23:01that this is a growing problem and I'm getting a lot more complaints about it and uh in all this

1:23:10I'll be blunt there's some there's some in the public realm especially in our downtown core

1:23:15some buildings that are vacant that are are not to the standard of what I think our public realm

1:23:22should be inviting towards and uh so there could be a property standards and get a connection here

1:23:30and I don't know that's why that's why we I think the direction here is the best

1:23:34it's higher level for our staff to come back I did I want to acknowledge Colleen Quackbush to

1:23:39help me with the wording here a little bit uh and then my colleagues as well for sort of

1:23:44redefining it a bit so with that I'll move it Councillor Goller has agreed to second it for me

1:23:49and I'll just stop there thank you chair okay thank you so I'll just go around um for the questions so

1:24:02Councillor Caron and then Guller and then Alt

1:24:11on this side Bousatil okay Councillor Caron great thank you um and thank you

1:24:19Margaritory for bringing it forward it certainly I think we all Aaron sorry yeah we visually see

1:24:25um kind of did the what happens when graffiti kind of crosses a line so um I do think it's worthy

1:24:33of a of a civic discussion um thank you as well for changing the scope of what your recommendation

1:24:39was going to be you know if if you and if I missed your call I'm sorry but if you had called me I

1:24:44would have encouraged you to go in this direction of broadening the scope um I also think that there's

1:24:51probably bylaws out there already so when in clause one where you've put bring back options

1:24:58I don't know whether it's an amendment but options and best practices because I do think that when

1:25:03we do a bylaw review we often look at other existing bylaws and other municipalities so that

1:25:09we don't have to reinvent the wheel so that would be hopefully a friendly amendment to add the word

1:25:14and best practices to that motion um apparently if staff think that's needed as direction uh

1:25:25otherwise if that's what you're going to do normally we don't do a best practice review until the

1:25:29bylaw um process is underway so is that something that you would be awaiting council direction to

1:25:38actually go out and do public engagement on a bylaw or would you do a best practice review before

1:25:44you enter into a public engagement process so through council or through chair downer to

1:25:49councillor Caron um we actually we brought an information report to council back in 2017

1:25:54regarding a graffiti bylaw that at that time we did do a scan um we will update that given given the

1:26:00motion the way that it is worded now our intent is to bring you back a report in q1226 it'll probably

1:26:05be an update to that 2017 information report we will include a fairly high level scan of what

1:26:12other municipalities are doing um but really bring back those options for your consideration

1:26:17and take that direction from at that time in terms of community engagement i think we would wait till

1:26:24after the q1 report because after the q1 report you may say put your pens down and stop versus

1:26:30proceed with bringing back a bylaw at that point that's when we would undertake the broader community

1:26:35engagement so what i am understanding the motion to be and obviously if the mover agrees is that

1:26:40this is us bringing you back a report in q1 with options it will include a high level scan of

1:26:45sort of other other best practices as you've referred to it and then uh seek your direction

1:26:51at that time as to whether to proceed further okay great so i'm hearing that you don't need

1:26:56an amendment to the motions on the floor which is great um and then another question to staff

1:27:02is that we heard the last time i believe mr godfrey was before us that the capacity of the

1:27:08department to enter into bylaw reviews was limited so i'm wondering what is coming off the work plan

1:27:16or what is being delayed in the work plan in this department in order to do this uh this additional

1:27:23work uh through uh chair downer at this point we can accommodate this the wording of this motion

1:27:29and bringing back the report in q1 2026 primarily because we have that pre-work already done from

1:27:34the previous information report um if you give what we will do at that time is let you know that if

1:27:39you want us to proceed with the development of a bylaw and the community engagement process

1:27:43that's where we will have to identify what would come off the work plan i will also say that at

1:27:48that time we will also be identifying what budget resources are required um because uh we do not

1:27:54proactively remove graffiti off city property right now because uh we are not obligated to

1:27:59and if you direct us to bring forward a bylaw then we would also be uh letting you know that we

1:28:04would need to have budget resources added into the 2027 operating budget because we would then

1:28:08need to comply with our own bylaw as well we do we do deal with a graffiti that is offensive

1:28:15more quickly but we don't deal with more run-of-the-mill uh graffiti as quickly as we would need to

1:28:20have this bylaw were to come into effect so we will identify resources to get the work done as well

1:28:25as budget resources to then implement the bylaw at the time that we bring you this report uh in

1:28:30q126 okay great thanks and and given that there the scope has changed i think i can support

1:28:40okay uh thank you so the next one is council goer thank you and three turn down there um

1:28:46your worship thank you for bringing this forward i've heard from many of my constituents who were

1:28:51quite supportive of this i did have a question about the second clause uh and that does work

1:28:56under way uh for faster removal on private property be considered could you or maybe if this came

1:29:02from staff help me understand uh why it's on private property and not private and public property

1:29:08because as i understand it the bulk of the the graffiti that that that happens is on on on either

1:29:16municipally owned land or land owned by metro links or other agencies uh through the chair i can comment

1:29:24and then i'll turn to margothry we do as i stated previously we do not proactively remove graffiti

1:29:30and we don't have the budget resources to do that now so if you were to direct us to remove the

1:29:35graffiti faster we would in fact need the budget resources now to do that what i'm asking is the

1:29:42second clause says to explore solutions for partnerships for removal on private property

1:29:49could those partnerships not also work for public property i'm just wondering why we define that

1:29:56otherwise i would have a friendly amendment to say for faster removal on public and private

1:30:02property so through the chair to councillor goller we can't have private citizens are removing

1:30:07graffiti off of public property for liability reasons we would have to have city staff or contracted

1:30:12um uh support to do that um and so again i'll i'll defer to margothry um obviously because

1:30:19it's his motion um but specifically for the city operations um we don't have the ability within

1:30:26our current budget resources to go any faster with the graffiti removal until we come back to you and

1:30:30seek that direction thank you and then as a follow-up to that what when we say private property

1:30:37i understand non-minicipal what about federal or provincial property is that also considered to

1:30:43be private property to us yes okay perfect so so this could include volunteer groups or partnerships

1:30:51to do a removal of mailboxes and off those other public spaces that are not city owned

1:31:02through if through through the chair if the private property owner agreed if i understand

1:31:06the second wording it is that we are to consider it and we will look at options we cannot compel a

1:31:11private property owner um we can just work with them and i will say publicly most private property

1:31:18owners now work with us very well um we have we do not have a lot of concerns and i want to make

1:31:23sure that i do state that we have a lot of great private property owners who already work very well

1:31:28with us regarding the removal of graffiti we will amplify those efforts we'll do the public

1:31:33education campaign i think it's already on the gps website if you go look there's resources there

1:31:38about graffiti and talking about the faster removal is better so we will continue to work with

1:31:44private property owners okay okay thank you so much um and so that i understand the timing

1:31:49a report comes to us by the end of q1 between now and the end of q1 2026 will this consultation with

1:31:57community volunteer groups happen to see what's possible as part of the second motion or is that

1:32:02happening after the report through the chair after so we will consider what those options are

1:32:14if there's anything that we can do i apologize for using the phrase low hanging fruit if there's

1:32:19anything we can continue to do in the meantime we will um but we we will come back to you at the

1:32:25end of q1 2026 with the broader suggested plan okay thank you for that clarification i'm happy

1:32:30to support this motion thank you councillor old thank you very much chair downer i will also

1:32:38support the modified amendment that's being brought forward i think it is very important this is a

1:32:44bit long-winded as usual to remember that not all graffiti is created equally and and i think what's

1:32:52really important is for us to remember that one of the principal foundations of christianity the best

1:32:57way to put it is that jesus finished found in the catacombs of roam which was graffiti and so

1:33:03consequently we need to look at banksy the owners wishes of a particular property the burlin wall

1:33:09and many other places where graffiti was sanctioned officially or not sanctioned but approved

1:33:16regardless and this is one of one of my significant concerns the rail lines throughout toronto are

1:33:22littered with graffiti on private property and i don't expect that we are going to be taking any

1:33:28action against that similarly i have and i hope that count what that staff will consider this

1:33:34the there are issues of freedom of expression certainly you can't go around spray painting

1:33:39city hall or whatever but i do believe the city in the past actually sanctioned graffiti on storm

1:33:45water grates and that was fish at one point to show that that water was was for fish and nobody

1:33:51took it down my other concern about volunteers is the use of toxins if toxins are being used on

1:33:57public and private space that has an impact on storm water i think we have another question

1:34:03all together and i appreciate that's a lot of work for staff i hope that we can round it all up

1:34:08by q1 because this is a massive issue hey thank you um i think our skateboard park

1:34:20sanctions graffiti that's another good one yes it's permissive yes yes unless it was offensive

1:34:27and then it would be removed um okay uh council class and then council katin uh thank you

1:34:37through you chair um i i have a few comments and first of all i'll just start with thanks for

1:34:44bringing this forward america 3 i also you know ward 2 we hear a lot of complaints about graffiti so

1:34:49having it addressed i think publicly is important and i appreciate the amendment that you made to

1:34:55take away the onus from business owners that is something that i heard from constituents as a

1:34:59real concern and uh last week i was sitting in an attractions committee meeting um and i heard from

1:35:06the you know you know not in an official capacity but i heard some of the concerns uh that business

1:35:12owners had uh with putting it on to them many business owners downtown guelph have had to

1:35:18repaint the walls several times to a great cost to them individually and so i do appreciate the

1:35:24adjustment and i also would like to just take a minute to talk about some of the work that had

1:35:29been done historically on the attractions committee um i want to shout out to lauren from bars and

1:35:34bells who who has been talking about mural art as a form of prevention graffiti prevention for a

1:35:41long time and that was in the previous iteration of the attractions committee and so it's been

1:35:46something that's been you know talked about ongoing um and then um to to move forward um to last

1:35:54week i was speaking with um a few a few of the members of the attractions committee about crime

1:35:59prevention through environmental design and so this is a real school of thought around how our

1:36:05spaces our public spaces are set up um to encourage people to to respect them and to not

1:36:12from commit crime so i'm gonna you know quickly shout to to to counsellor all i think there's a

1:36:19real distinction between graffiti and mural art and when we have when we have asked you know

1:36:25community members in the past to spray paint our you know pothole or our our pot covers it that it's

1:36:32intentional it's created you know in through intention and um on purpose and now there is a

1:36:38you there is like some flexibility in in in that definition agreed um but i think that for a

1:36:44there's a lot of offensive and unwanted um art i don't think it's art i think it's graffiti um when

1:36:51we when we put something intentional into a space so going back to in crime prevention through

1:36:55environmental design when we use good lighting and when we use art and we use other you know public

1:37:00art as a mechanism to avoid these things we we actually create spaces that people want to be

1:37:05in and the eyes are on and so i think it's really important that we actually put our eyes on spaces

1:37:09that are um that are constantly being um graffiti there's there's a few places that i think you

1:37:15know have it have it happen constantly and so i'm gonna you know round about in a very strange round

1:37:20about way make a plug to our culture plan that needs funding um you know art and and lighting

1:37:27and the work that is being done by you know our various various groups um needs funding so that we

1:37:34can we can you know be intentional about this type of work um you know that's just a little bit of a

1:37:40plug on the side and i you know like phil i feel like i'm i'm i'm starting to ramble however um i

1:37:47would also just like to say the Attractions Committee also funded five murals that will be

1:37:53installed in in some of these sensitive areas um where graffiti is happening so that was also done

1:37:59with intention and that was part of the plug when we pitched it to the dgba was that we were going to

1:38:04install these eight by four mural panels in sensitive areas so that instead of there being you know

1:38:11unwanted art that there was wanted art um and so i think we need to ask ourselves like what are we

1:38:17putting out there i think that having a bylaw is great but really what we would like to see

1:38:23and what i would like to see is prevention and making safe safe and inviting spaces for people

1:38:30to to spend their their time and um so when it comes back to budget i i i hope that we can kind

1:38:37of think about some of these things and um i'm not sure and maybe this is a question to staff

1:38:41is crime prevention through environmental design something that is part of um our you know any of

1:38:47our master plans or is it something that's embedded in any of our plans and could it be going forward

1:38:54um through the chair to council class and so um using the septet principles is is baked into

1:39:01all of our projects actually so just i think that's the answer you're looking for

1:39:06yes thanks okay thank you uh council kate thank you through your chair downer um

1:39:17the question is to staff and i think that i heard this uh in the answer from

1:39:21councillor Caron but i just want to clarify because uh so this won't have impact on the previously

1:39:29prioritized works for bylaw like the renovation bylaw for example and things that we've kind of

1:39:36already put a high priority on uh so through the chair to the councillor um uh speaking about the

1:39:44the the bylaws that are approved now for proceeding those will not be impacted by this work being

1:39:51directed to come back in q1226 at that time we will report to you on what would need to be paused

1:39:59or adjusted in terms of the schedule um if you do direct us to proceed with a graffiti bylaw

1:40:05so this first step we're fine with the resources we have we will let you know in q1226 what would

1:40:11need to come off of the work plan um related to um other bylaws if you would like us to proceed

1:40:17with a graffiti bylaw um just in regards to the renovation bylaw i think uh staff are coming back

1:40:22with an update uh in november on that so i'm not responding specifically about the renovation

1:40:27bylaw just about bylaws in general perfect thank you and um i think this is just more of a i don't

1:40:34know if you need direction on this because it's for the report but um a lot of graffiti removal

1:40:39involves high pressure washing and we've recently had water warnings um i would just ask that that's

1:40:47be a consideration in the report um if you're looking at you know impacts that this sort of work

1:40:56would have we'll take that away thank you okay thank you are there any other questions councillor Chew

1:41:08thank you through you madam chair just a quick comment um i just want to stress the partnership

1:41:12approach and i just send everyone quick email and this is credit to councillor Hauser who came

1:41:17well researched so the city of vancour has a partnership with dulex paints and it's it's

1:41:24practically free advertising for them and their products at the same time residents do our web

1:41:30portal can access that free resource so there's just a lot of local playing for you here i think we

1:41:36all would appreciate um staff focusing their attention to look into council fassins you have

1:41:45your hand up again okay is there anyone else okay we'll go to the vote thank you thank you it's a

1:41:52good discussion um is there anyone opposed to the motion on the that was on the floor not the one

1:41:59in the report but the one the alternative one seeing none that has passed and are there any

1:42:07and are there any uh staff announcements okay thank you i think we're going to