Statutory Public Meeting Report regarding proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-law Amendment applications submitted by MHBC Planning Limited, on behalf of the owner… be received

3:04:17on that preliminary concept is there will be sidewalk connections through from poppy to clear

3:04:21and also within the development so if you live in one of the units and you're visiting someone

3:04:25at another unit there will absolutely be connectivity and sidewalks but uh in terms of public streets

3:04:32there will not be public streets permitted they wouldn't be able to kind of punch through to those um

3:04:38I said one's emergency services and one's a storm water management block okay so it's not that

3:04:43they're intended to extend especially to the to the east towards gordon street correct okay um and uh

3:04:52I know I know that mademy has a number of projects right now that the that are our net zero can you

3:04:57please assure us that this will be a I know it's still many years to come but uh that this will

3:05:04contribute to our community energy goals and be a net zero development uh through mr. mayor so I can't

3:05:11commit that it will be net zero they have submitted their sort of summary of all their

3:05:17sustainability initiatives there are a number of things that mademy does um automatically in

3:05:22their developments it's probably too early to say if there will be for sure any net zero but it's

3:05:27certainly one of the things that we will be looking at as we go through the process thanks

3:05:39thank you mayor guthrie um through you to the delegate and uh thank you very much for the

3:05:46presentation I'll be asking similar questions of staff um block one and block two the corporate

3:05:52business and the urban reserve um strike make me think that this is in your words it's not

3:06:00zoning relief this is significant rezoning and I was wondering if you could please explain why

3:06:05you consider this to be zoning relief um through you mr. mayor so in terms of the zoning relief I was

3:06:16really referring to the site specific types of um things we're asking for in terms of the block one

3:06:22it is definitely a full rezoning from the uh office type designation to residential but as I mentioned

3:06:31since the time that draft plan of subdivision was submitted there's been quite a change in policy in

3:06:36terms of what this area and we felt residential is appropriate here the other block block two that

3:06:45already came forward to council that block already had residential permissions including the stacked

3:06:50towns that we are proceeding with so when that application came forward it was really just an

3:06:55application to reduce the minimum density because you couldn't actually um hit that density with

3:07:01towns and that's really because the block size was approved before the new zoning by-law and the

3:07:06densities changed so um so apologies if I misspoke but the zoning relief that we're asking for in terms

3:07:14of specific regulations are fairly minor but it is a full rezoning to uh residential use

3:07:21thank you and the other thing I'm struggling with is a is a number of units per hectare uh if I've

3:07:27got the the numbers correct the the proposal is to increase it from 150 units per hectare to 250

3:07:34or thereabouts is that correct that's correct yeah and that strikes me at a huge number of units

3:07:49just that's just a comment but I was wondering if you could please elaborate further on the

3:07:54natural heritage protection that's proposed so I'll take those uh sort of as two separate so on

3:08:02the density portion of it um the strategic growth areas or strategic priority areas of the city

3:08:09are around in and around that 250 units per hectare and as I mentioned um we're adjacent to that area

3:08:16the block that's actually within that area will not could not meet that density so it's

3:08:21significantly lower it's at 60 so and as I mentioned there was also supposed to be high

3:08:25density on the south side of poppy so because those two areas are not going to be developed as

3:08:30high density we've really redistributed it to this block um it is a maximum so the concept plan that

3:08:36was included in the package is not hitting that 250 it may be that we come in lower I believe the

3:08:42minimum is 100 units per hectare and we're not um proposing to change that so it will be at least 100

3:08:49but uh as I mentioned one of the things we're looking at is mid-rise and if this all went to

3:08:54sort of six-story apartments then I would suspect will be a fair bit under that 250 but given the

3:09:00uncertainties in the market not knowing where things are going um it was really just wanting to have

3:09:06some flexibility and we think the block is situated such that it can accommodate some

3:09:10heightened density without really having negative impacts on the surrounding community and then in

3:09:15terms of the natural heritage protection when the existing draft plan of subdivision was approved

3:09:22the wetland was staked um a 30 meter step back was established and through that draft plan of

3:09:28subdivision that staffer in the process of reviewing for registration there was a requirement to do

3:09:34all the compensation um any compensation planting as well as planting within the buffer to kind of

3:09:40add additional heritage features so that's all outside of the lands that are proposed to be

3:09:45designated residential and is staying designated and zoned for natural heritage and open space

3:09:51thank you appreciate that last question it's it's really crisp of all gazing in some senses

3:09:59when given the market and given workforce challenges at the present when is this being

3:10:05proposed to be built out start and when finished it's a good question and yes i think all of my

3:10:15developer clients would love to have a crystal ball right now um madame's very motivated so as i

3:10:21mentioned the draft plan of subdivision that was already approved on claire road um we are trying

3:10:26to have that registered before the end of the year the initial stacked townhouse block that was

3:10:31before council earlier this year um we've made several site plan submissions it needs the registration

3:10:37of the subdivision to plan approval but i would say we're very close in terms of satisfying all of

3:10:44staff's comments so they'd like to if possible start servicing of that stacked townhouse block

3:10:50as early as the end of the year um the poppy drive construction and servicing is already underway

3:10:56with poppy drive construction intended to be finalized next year and then those uh the lands

3:11:03within the subdivision obviously that subdivision has to be approved and registered that would

3:11:07sort of be next but um in terms of the lower rise in the stacks madame's fairly confident that

3:11:14those can go forward in this market the block one and potential higher density i think is the

3:11:20is the slower to come back and um but what we want is to make sure that the zoning and the

3:11:25designation is in place so that when the market starts to rebound we're not starting from scratch

3:11:31then so as everyone knows it takes a long time to work through all the various planning processes

3:11:35but uh they are hoping to start construction on this site on parts of 132 as early as next year

3:11:42thank you for trying to read the tea leaves that's appreciated

3:11:49all right thank you councillor Chew and then kate thank you through you mr mayor so i'm just

3:11:57trying to understand so is poppy drive going to be fully built out next year and is it going to be

3:12:05a portion of it that's going to be completed um for block two block one i'm just trying to understand

3:12:12the timing just from your standpoint so the first phase of construction of poppy drive will um include

3:12:19will start at gosselin gardens so that'll provide access to the stacked townhouse block so that once

3:12:24that portion of poppy drive is constructed and we have full site plan approval those could go um in

3:12:30terms of building permit and could be could start being constructed as soon as next year

3:12:36the full extent of poppy drive will have to be constructed for the subdivision that's proposed

3:12:40the south as well as block one but that all of all of the plans for the poppy drive extension

3:12:47are part of the draft plan of subdivision that staff are working through registration right now so

3:12:53it's um very far along in terms of all the engineering and all the servicing plans have been

3:12:57approved so it's really um a matter of getting the registration the subdivision registered and

3:13:03tenders already out there they're motivated to complete poppy drive thank you i see nothing further

3:13:14except for councillor billings through you mr mayor um i'm sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry

3:13:21sorry christine councillor Caton first then billings sorry thank you through you mr mayor um

3:13:30to the delegate uh is the intention for these to just all be for sale market value

3:13:39um through mr mayor so in terms of the south poppy subdivision lands on the south side of poppy

3:13:45road those would all be ownership um in terms of block one potentially ownership there could be

3:13:52some rental the sort of final determination of that block is really still undecided at that point

3:13:58at this point sorry um so just based on the required versus proposed um within the staff

3:14:10right up it just looks like you're asking for a lot you know in terms of the additional population

3:14:17and everything so i would imagine um in that regard that there would be something specifically of

3:14:25value in terms of affordability extra accessibility um things like that so like as is for me personally

3:14:34it just feels like a lot of asks without a lot of give and so i would just uh have that as feedback

3:14:41right now thank you noted thank you now billings please true your worship i apologize because the

3:14:52feed is cutting in and out for me so some of the verbiage you used i i missed so i apologize so i

3:14:59may be asking the same question but it has to do with block one so block one my understanding it's

3:15:08not in a strategic growth area because it was employment lands am i incorrect uh through the

3:15:16mayor that is correct it's not within the strategic growth area not necessarily because it was um

3:15:21employment lands but the strategic growth area kind of cuts off at the edge of the block two in the

3:15:27same subdivision plan which was the which is the block where the stacked towns are proposed to go

3:15:33okay so then taking employment lands out of the op what's the criteria that you used in order to

3:15:42justify that so there's um a significant distinction between protected employment and other forms of

3:15:50employment so they're not protected employment so it's not considered a conversion under the Planning

3:15:56Act there are policies that look to whether or not uh in redesignating new lands for high density

3:16:04residential so we've looked at the criteria for where you should locate high density residential

3:16:09and these this property does meet that criteria but obviously um at this point we don't have staff's

3:16:16comments we are still waiting for feedback on this but in terms of previous discussions with staff and

3:16:22in particular what's happened with Claire Malpy and the switch to residential um i think it was

3:16:26generally agreed that that does make some sense for residential here and that if there is residential

3:16:32here it should be higher density because of some of the other areas where that high density is not

3:16:36being achieved so so then with your dialogue with staff then i i guess what i'm struggling with is

3:16:48high density 150 units per hectare 10 stories high and you were talking about maybe coming in

3:16:55maybe 100 or less than 100 units per hectare but your request is for 250 units per hectare

3:17:03and 14 stories and it's not in a sort of sorry strategic growth area that's where i'm having a huge

3:17:11problem with your application because what we had before i know you're asking for a change

3:17:18was only a small little area of high density and now okay you want to change that but then block

3:17:24one is is is quite large and then you want that to be 250 instead of 150 so i'm really struggling with

3:17:34with what you're requesting so is your feedback that you received from staff that this is okay

3:17:39we were still waiting for circulation comments so we'll take back all of this feedback including

3:17:45those comments from council but um given sort of where the city's going in terms of within

3:17:51Claremont be they're looking at a little bit higher densities and heights um considering that

3:17:56there are areas that we know are not hitting this um it was really intended to provide flexibility

3:18:02but that doesn't mean that we're fixed on this specific density we'll see all the comments that

3:18:08come back including comments from the public and remain open to looking at this and considering it

3:18:14further okay okay thanks okay thank you councillor billings nothing further from myself so you're

3:18:25good there um we'll just now open it up to the rooms anyone in the room want to talk about this

3:18:30okay we'll throw up the phone number on the screen

3:18:35i don't even have to look at it 519-837-5603

3:18:40i'm right 519-837-5603

3:18:47we'll wait three four minutes or so to see if anyone wants to call in on this one

3:18:52thank you okay there's been no call in so we are good it is back to us again this is another

3:21:37receive only so uh councillor hauser has agreed to move and councillor chou has agreed to second

3:21:46receive only is there any other feedback that has not been stated yet at all for staff to take away

3:21:55galler than alts than billings thank you through worship to staff um one of the comments that

3:22:02heard was that this is not a strategic growth area but could you clarify for me is the corner of

3:22:09um gordon and claire not a strategic growth area through the mayor to councillor Goller

3:22:19this particular block is not within a strategic growth area claire and gordon so it does cut off

3:22:25we're um block two if you were recall back in um april there is that stacked townhouse block so

3:22:31that is technically the last piece in the subdivision that is part of the strategic growth area for

3:22:36the claire gordon okay so this is adjacent to it yeah so so there's like the stacked townhouse block

3:22:43which is within the strategic growth area and then right to the left i guess if you're on claire road

3:22:49facing it it's to the right is will be the future storm water management block and then block one

3:22:54this block okay thank you would it be possible that when this comes back to us uh that we have

3:23:01a mock-up of what it would look like at the maximum allowed density like what what that

3:23:07block would look like at 150 versus that 250 because i think it's a little bit hard to conceptualize

3:23:13just how much more density that is in terms of you know what the buildings will look like is that

3:23:18is that something that maybe i don't know if it would be to you or to the developer uh that we

3:23:23could make that request uh through the mayor to councillor Goller we can certainly take that back

3:23:28and ask the developer to provide some different concepts that would show the different development

3:23:33scenarios okay okay thank you um i i appreciate the the comments now through your worship um

3:23:42the need for the greater density i do feel that this is within close walking distance of that major

3:23:49urban square uh with the the grocery stores and and the other amenities um i do have concerns

3:23:56about the reduced amenity yeah i feel that it is quite a significant reduction for people that

3:24:01will be living there in terms of of places for our kids to play and for families to to to be

3:24:09and i do have concerns about some of the setbacks to the street i would appreciate you know seeing

3:24:15what that would look like to to be there so on principle i i do not object to the increased

3:24:23density and increased heights because of the location if the amenities are available for the

3:24:28residents to to be a livable space thank you okay all 10 buildings thank you mayor Guthrie um

3:24:38my purpose to staff is i am struggling with this proposal significantly i'd heard the word

3:24:45zoning relief and i don't consider this zoning relief at all and this is why i need staff to weigh in

3:24:52i do believe the developer but this knowing how it's zoned and zoning relief is asking for minor

3:24:58changes this is asking for a lot and i'm inclined at this point not to support this so i need staff

3:25:05to actually please weigh in on such things as blocks uh one and two and the the significant

3:25:13changes in my opinion that are being asked for there and also the fact that there's a likelihood

3:25:21this won't be built out for a long time i think councillor kate and quoting her says this is asking

3:25:28for a lot and councillor billings basically saying the same thing are on the right path here this is

3:25:34asking for a lot it's not zoning relief so if staff could comment on that it would truly be appreciated

3:25:44through the mayor to councillor Allt um yeah that's something we can review and comment on

3:25:49in our final recommendation um so the applicant did apply for an official plan amendment and zoning

3:25:55bylaw amendment so um i think in terms of what the applicant had said in terms of zoning relief in

3:26:01terms of zoning relief for the specific zone that they're asking for um however we do review that um

3:26:09comprehensively through the planning justification report and everything else that they've submitted

3:26:15and we'll provide a full um analysis in our final report to council um

3:26:26sorry thank you very much i don't think i need to really say anything more i truly

3:26:30am struggling with this one as zoning relief uh thank you and billings through you mr mayor um

3:26:41just a couple of issues uh the reduced minimum lot area don't like that and then also reduced

3:26:48minimum interior of the garage um we had another planning issue where the request was to reduce the

3:26:57interior of the garage and i can't even remember if that came back to council um or or not that

3:27:04specific application i was just wondering where staff are landing on this because it's not the

3:27:10first time we've had this request and i don't like reducing um the interior from from 20 square

3:27:18meters to 18 through the mayor to councillor billings um that's something we'll have to report

3:27:25back on um i believe the other project you're referring to hasn't been brought back to councillor

3:27:31yet for consideration but it is something that we do um look at as part of our review okay and then

3:27:40also because it's not a strategic growth area i don't like the idea actually of taking these lands

3:27:46out of the employment use however and saying that if if staff feel that's um justified the people

3:27:53even across the street i mean they bought in when this was corporate business it's employment lands

3:28:00two stories and so then to to support 14 stories is i i believe um a little thick and so i was hoping

3:28:09that if staff does uh support um residential here high high density residential that we could keep

3:28:19two the zoning and the op 10 stories um at at the most and 150 units per hectare it's just a request

3:28:30okay uh thank you is there any other feedback all right um i would just uh you know a little bit

3:28:40of an echo of what we heard but i just want to say to andrea you being representative of the of the

3:28:46builder um that i think i could i could tell that you were authentically wanting to listen to the

3:28:55feedback to take it back that's my that's my take so just want to appreciate that if you did take

3:28:59the feedback that you heard from us tonight to consider it um and also i do know that you know

3:29:04madame wants to build and the market has very much shifted everybody like every developer everywhere

3:29:12is very much very scared of high rise all over the place now and only that so the fact that i'm

3:29:21hearing that there could be a mix of other housing forms here to me is actually something we desperately

3:29:27need um so i'm actually pleased about that i think the flip makes a lot of sense sure we can talk

3:29:33about the density and stuff so that's fine but the flip of where that is makes a lot of sense to me

3:29:39and so hopefully we can get the comments back uh from staff to you and you can maybe try to

3:29:44accommodate what you've heard and we can see how this moves forward from there so i just would encourage

3:29:48both staff and yourself to to take what was said here tonight and and to see how we can get this

3:29:53this moving along to maybe a different outcome that can have uh you know a good a good vote of

3:29:58confidence from council in the future so thank you very much we appreciate that it's been moved

3:30:03and seconded so i will call the vote is anyone against receiving only only fill only counselor

3:30:10alt is against receiving and kate okay other than that it still passes so thank you very much

3:30:18and we'll move on to the next one uh and that will be for signed by law variance 705 south gate