Feedback provided through the Zoning By-law Amendment process be included and considered during the site plan approval process for 1 Clair Road East.

3:48:05minutes for delegations okay and our first delegation actually has withdrawn so um is it

3:48:13awes camille awes come on down you are going to be our only delegation because it looks like

3:48:23everyone else on the list I've been told is here for questions only just in case am I right okay

3:48:31so welcome and again five minutes you'll hear the time at four minutes and 30 seconds as a warning

3:48:37and uh I'll turn it over to you and the time starts whenever you're ready good afternoon

3:48:52mayor guthrie and council my name is awes camille I'm a partner with mhbc planning representing

3:48:56first capital the owners of pergola commons shopping center um what I'd like to do is provide a brief

3:49:03summary and be available for questions along with our consultant team who's here to help

3:49:09today's presentation will cover a very brief overview of the proposal given I only have five

3:49:13minutes a summary of comments from the september 9th public meeting and key updates to the draft zoning

3:49:19bylaw in terms of the proposal um some key details uh proposed heights range from 10 to 14 stories

3:49:28consistent with opa 80 for this area there is an 1800 square meter park to be conveyed over 2100

3:49:35square meters of commercial space proposed 715 residential units 850 parking spaces which allow

3:49:43at least one space per unit and 819 bicycle parking spaces in the site plan here four buildings are

3:49:52proposed each with a 14-story component and rooftop amenity space I note that the southmost

3:49:56tower is only 10 stories as it approaches the lower density development to the south

3:50:02but north south one earth style internal road which you can see through the middle of the site is

3:50:07proposed to help promote walkability through the site the ground floor the ground floor plan shows

3:50:13how spaces are designed to activate the site commercial spaces are shown in that um along

3:50:19clear road and along the uh wrapping around the corner of the private road which is the

3:50:24considered the farley road extension residential lobbies are shown in yellow uh face which face

3:50:30the private road intersection there's town home shown in uh the aqua green color uh that line the

3:50:36one earth Hawkins drive and part of poppy drive and both indoor and amenity indoor and outdoor

3:50:42amenities are located next to the park and one earth um what I'd like to do here is just show

3:50:49a couple of renderings so this is a rendering this is looking up the one earth from poppy drive you

3:50:55can see to the east this is this image is across the private access road from farley drive this is

3:51:10a view of the retail spaces fronting clear road and this is a full view in context which shows the

3:51:19other relatively recent tri-car developments on the left side of the page so the public meeting

3:51:28was held on september 9th allowed council and the public to share feedback

3:51:33at this meeting the following questions uh key questions and concerns were raised

3:51:38loss of commercial space and recreational use building heights and built form considerations

3:51:43traffic and site access and parking there were concerns about the loss of commercial and recreational

3:51:51uses particularly the potential closure of the theater when you exclude the theater which is more

3:51:57of a recreational community community use pergola commons as a whole currently has 115,400 square feet

3:52:04of commercial space with a proposed development this increases to 121,000 square feet in place of

3:52:12the theater the development offers high quality amenities for both future residents and the surrounding

3:52:17community including a public park and a flexible winter space space that can serve various community

3:52:24functions it's important also to note the theater will only leave the site if the operator chooses

3:52:32to close the other the other comment that was raised was building heights and built form considerations

3:52:41the site is located in within the strategic growth area which is intended for intensification

3:52:46the proposed heights fully conform to op 80 permissions the site has been organized so that

3:52:51the height decreases moving from clear road east towards the surrounding low density residential

3:52:57development and proposed parkland each building includes a 14-story component with podiums

3:53:03along the park limited to six stories and townhomes on poppy drive east limited to two stories creating

3:53:09an appropriate transition to lower density areas and minimizing shadow impacts the building

3:53:14massing and podium design correct creates a strong pedestrian scale and positive public realm illustrated

3:53:20in this rendering the other concern was traffic and site access that was also raised

3:53:30the site layout optimizes internal and external locations external circulation maintaining

3:53:37existing access conditions along the Farley extension and Hawkins drive the north south road

3:53:41internal road conceptually aligns with 1888 Gordon street the development is designed to be pedestrian

3:53:48friendly an active space encouraging walking and cycling if I could have just a couple more minutes

3:53:53just to finish unfortunately I can't allow you to do that I'm sorry I would have to sort of

3:54:02maybe some of the questions that come from my colleagues might hold out what's in your

3:54:06in your presentation but I just have to kind of none of them stay the course okay but but hey

3:54:12we got the just a bit for sure so we do appreciate that let me see if there's any questions right

3:54:17away I did see a hand go up somewhere goller and then alt please thank you through your worship

3:54:25to the elegant thank you for your presentation I'm looking at the the ground floor image could you

3:54:31help me understand the the traffic layout and we have the the main access road but there's the

3:54:40pedestrian walk could you just describe what the traffic globe would look like for for this area

3:54:47yeah so the main there's an east west access that's located just parallel to Claire road within the

3:54:56site then there is a north south access that that intersects with that internal east west road

3:55:05that that north south access is to act as a one-earth which focuses more of pedestrians

3:55:13you see things like that at university campuses I've seen developments like this where you have

3:55:1914 story or 10 12 14 I've seen 18 20 stories in Montreal where you have this synergy of walkability

3:55:28and cars just go very slowly if they use that space but typically what you'll find is that it's

3:55:34the east west access that accesses the underground garages and the loading spaces are located further

3:55:41to the north end so that that one-earth can really function as more of a pedestrian priority access

3:55:47point okay okay I appreciate that now with regards to your comments about the the the theater

3:55:56only being built over if they no longer use it what would the facing of this look like then

3:56:01would you start on the on the block that is closest to to Claire road

3:56:09so there's you heard it from other presentations there's various factors in terms of phasing

3:56:15phasing in this instance hasn't really been determined what we're trying to do here is get

3:56:20the zoning in place because it does take some time to get zoning in place should in the case be that

3:56:27some of the existing tenants decide not to renew their leases or extend their leases

3:56:32then we would be looking at potentially phasing the development in an orderly fashion but there's

3:56:37no preconceived plan of how of how that would be achieved okay okay no I I appreciate that

3:56:45another question if I could through your worship yeah with with regards to the public amenity space

3:56:54I noticed that some of them are almost a but the the park how how would that work if you have the

3:57:00amenity space for the building right next to to the park would there be a you know what it just be

3:57:07public space that the public is using or would those areas be you know isolated for the residents

3:57:13in those buildings to use the the idea is that it creates this synergistic approach to the public

3:57:20space from the private amenity space there isn't a plan to fence it off it would be the idea is

3:57:27that that amenity space is really for the residents but it's shared with the public space so when you

3:57:31factor that in it creates the seamless impression that anyone can go wherever and it creates almost

3:57:38a larger space for the general area that that they can utilize okay thank you very much for that

3:57:45those are my questions thank you worship no problem thank you alt please

3:57:51thank you mayor Guthrie um I appreciate this and I think that I'm actually teeing up

3:57:57councillor chewed us and questions as well maybe just to stop um I was through you to the delegate

3:58:04I was wondering for the benefit of people who are unfamiliar with the winter what it is what

3:58:10its purpose how does it conform to active transit it's not a sidewalk it's not a trail it's not a

3:58:16road it's not a ball it's a winter and I know about them because I lived in delft where they were

3:58:21developed but if you could please uh talk about the advantages and why this matters um so and I might

3:58:32ask BA group to come up and assist me with this but um my experience with one or is that they are

3:58:39located um they're not public roads the in this instance it's a private road um and the idea is

3:58:47that it allows for oftentimes what you see is um developments are very automobile oriented and

3:58:55automobile centric uh this is a way of balancing um balancing the the ability for people to have

3:59:04an urban environment because this is an urban development um whereby they can utilize it for

3:59:12for walking for cycling and that instance for those instances and at the same time still have it used

3:59:20functionally um should should there be a need for um management or things of that nature which

3:59:27will go up the street in a very slow manner um I see BA groups up here too maybe perhaps they can

3:59:33add to that absolutely um yeah I think a lot of the key points that Oz had kind of touched on there

3:59:41are definitely true um if I were to describe it succinctly it's essentially a flexible space

3:59:47that is really geared towards all modes of travel um so you know you're not delineating

3:59:52different spaces for different users it's really meant to kind of accommodate all users

3:59:57and what this does is it encourages people you know if you are for example do end up driving on

4:00:03that space to be paying attention you're going to be traveling slowly in many cases it actually

4:00:07discourages uh vehicular activity uh on those connections because there are you know other

4:00:12modes kind of using that space um it's really designed to be a seamless kind of connective

4:00:17space between kind of you know pedestrian cyclists and vehicles uh not a primary vehicular access

4:00:26point and those primary vehicle accesses would be located on the east west

4:00:31service street which are serviced by Farley Drive extension and Huckins Drive

4:00:36and if I'm correct we are not as familiar with them in North America as Europeans are where

4:00:42they're far more commonplace now is that correct uh yes that is correct they are generally much more

4:00:50common in in uh Europe and then there are you know they are certainly an emerging um kind of

4:00:57mobility space uh in urban areas um particularly where I have higher densities mixes of uses

4:01:03they provide you know kind of strong connectivity uh for active uses while also providing some of

4:01:08the necessary vehicular circulation on an as-needed basis but they really are geared towards

4:01:13um kind of active connections uh generally thank you okay I don't see anybody else for the applicant

4:01:31and team so I'm going to say thank you thank you thank you for clearing up a lot by the way I just

4:01:40I appreciated how you went through your presentation personally like this is what we have this is what

4:01:45we heard I I liked I liked that format and I appreciate you on the second part of your

4:01:51presentation getting at some of the stuff that you heard I actually heard some answers back to

4:01:55some of the questions we did have there a month or two ago when you were here when were you here

4:01:59like a month ago um I think it was just over a month ago yeah that's pretty fast eh make sure you

4:02:04tell your friends about how fast our planners are all right okay thank you very much I'm going to go

4:02:11back to staff but before I do is there anyone that would be willing to move the recommendation

4:02:17that is ahead of us I don't know if the ward six counselors would like to do that it's in their

4:02:21ward yeah is that okay yeah okay how's our and chew we'll we'll move the recommendations

4:02:29for approval okay and uh questions to staff down did you have a question to staff no

4:02:35chew did you have a question for staff yep okay go ahead thank you through you mr mayor

4:02:41I'm not going to ask all the questions I sent through email but I just want to just put out

4:02:47there that there are a lot of people out there that are concerned about the Wooner of access

4:02:53not with the Wooner of itself but just with the access towards poppy I was just wondering um when

4:02:59staff were doing the review and the comments um did they did did you guys consider maybe keeping

4:03:10that access as like a one-way only or or just restricting it for service only okay you kind of

4:03:18just walk me through how you concluded that this would be adequate uh for the this proposal here

4:03:30to mr. Mayor to councillor chew so like this application has been like multiple pre-submissions

4:03:36and a formal application so this access was reviewed by our traffic engineering staffs at various

4:03:43submissions and it has been confirmed that it meets our dm requirements and in terms of like

4:03:50accessing like you know as this was brought up in the public meeting it was discussed after that

4:03:55so at the site plan state it can be determined like you know with more technical details those

4:04:01that can be determined how we can keep that access more control for only you know servicing or

4:04:07emergency vehicles with any other traffic calming measures to you know discourage the vehicular

4:04:11traffic on that and yeah like at the site plan state it will be where we have more enforceable

4:04:16measures permitted through approval process that's the staff recommendation to be reviewed at that

4:04:22stage okay um I just need to know um and I'm trying not to get into site specific details

4:04:32but there is an overwhelming amount of people that have reached out to me since the public meeting

4:04:39indicating that they feel especially within towers one two and three of goren square that this

4:04:47access in private particular at this present time uh could be problematic because there are already a

4:04:55lot of issues during peak hours when it comes to waste um when it comes to school pick up and

4:05:01drop offs and we can only foresee that poppy drive is going to be um more busy with the buildout of

4:05:09the rec center and with the full extension of poppy drive and for me my issue is I feel like this

4:05:15the access itself not the street is redundant because you have hawkins and you have farley

4:05:22so I'm wondering if we were to table an amendment to provide uh some some suggestion to staff

4:05:33to take this away um is that something that could be worked on that is that something that you

4:05:41guys can work around through the mayor to the councillor so I guess first off I have to say that

4:05:48this is a rezoning application and we don't have detailed designs it's clearly labeled in the report

4:05:53that this is a concept plan so and I believe when they were at the public meeting last month they

4:05:58didn't have a timeline on when this would be built so at this point I believe it's premature to make

4:06:03those site specific recommendations when it does come through site plan um and in the you know

4:06:08traffic review comments it said through detailed design we'll take a look at it further but we

4:06:13also have to look at good engineering practices and it's not always ideal to offset or not line

4:06:18up driveways as well so I think we'll take a look at it detailed design but really focus on the

4:06:24zoning tonight and at the site plan stage we'll we'll consider it but we as we heard last last

4:06:30month we do not have a time timeline when this will come forward yeah and and through you Mr.

4:06:35Mayor I just want to respect that as well because I know right now the plans are quite preliminary

4:06:39in high level having said this is not going to come back to us anytime soon right and yeah exactly

4:06:48and with that and under the assumption that this the site is going to be built out more or less

4:06:54the same way with the Woonerfin place as the one of the underlying concepts like how can we

4:07:03make how are we able to ensure that some of the spirit of the feedback that's received tonight

4:07:11and in the last meeting it's kind of being captured like I think people are looking for

4:07:16some reassurances and there's an opportunity right now to do that so and then again I'm trying to be

4:07:22gentle with providing direction but I just feel like I have a duty to make sure that these comments

4:07:29are being satisfied because a lot of people are looking at these plans and they think okay there's

4:07:35some issues right now with it and it's quite and the issues are quite obvious and glaring

4:07:42at least from our perspective so I guess is there a way to kind of satisfy you know both sides here

4:07:50through the mayor and the councillor so Poppy Drive is identified as a collector road so it is

4:07:55intended to carry carry traffic to Gordon Niclare so that is the purpose of Poppy Drive obviously

4:08:03when they they move forward with a development of application the next phase a site plan and then

4:08:10potentially condominium depending on time I will be looking at a full TIS and we'll look at traffic

4:08:16volumes and identify or if there's any traffic related concerns at this time but we don't have

4:08:23we don't have a timeline and we don't have any doubt those determinations at this point in time

4:08:30maybe I can make maybe I can make a suggestion a little bit on the fly but maybe what I would do

4:08:36sir I'm sorry I'm making this up on the fly but I'm just trying to help maybe what we could do is

4:08:42we could we could vote on the motions to potentially council will have council to approve what's here

4:08:50and get that like done and then as a separate motion completely separate from the approval

4:08:56you could move a motion we've done this before in the past a couple of times where

4:09:04do you remember do you remember many of you on council do you remember when we had

4:09:08everyone remember when Nestle had to come forward to us a couple times for the water certificate

4:09:15the water taking certificate updates and what we did is we passed a motion at the end of the meeting

4:09:21that said something to the effect of and the feedback that was collected through the delegations

4:09:29and the application process be included for future consideration and it was sent to the province and

4:09:35stuff like that so maybe that might satisfy you councillor chew that we could like look to approve

4:09:40this and get get it approved and it's done and then a follow-up motion could be something to the

4:09:46effect of and that and that council respectfully requests that the feedback making it up here on

4:09:54the fly but that the feedback through the council you know through the through the zoning process

4:10:01be captured and reflective for further consideration within site plan in the future period and then

4:10:08that satisfies because I understand like as a councillor I told I totally respect that like

4:10:13as a councillor you want to you want to show go back and say like hey I heard you I took the

4:10:18my concerns on your behalf to council I had a motion that was passed and does that

4:10:24does that help a little bit on the on the on the staffing side I don't want to I don't want to wreck

4:10:30anything but I'm just trying to to balance where we can go on this yeah through the mayor it's

4:10:37certainly not typical um you know obviously if counts council puts that motion forward staff

4:10:42will abide by it I will not meet my time we timelines for site plan approval so I will put

4:10:46that out there if that is a if that is an issue um but we'll we'll allow council to the will of council

4:10:55and that you know I obviously support what we've heard from councillor chew and we do have

4:10:59recommendations in there for full review at TI at the time of site plan so um I you know from

4:11:06staff's perspective that is the appropriate time to look at it at the technical level but if council

4:11:11wants to do something else then we'll let that go forward I don't think I think the commentary

4:11:24that's been stated is captured already by staff it's also on the public record right like it's

4:11:29it's clear but if you want to try to you know encapsulate that into emotion that that doesn't

4:11:37wreck the site plan it doesn't like you can't you can't do that um but it's it's like a nudge in the

4:11:44future for a reminder to staff that that the conversation took place I mean that might be

4:11:49something to satisfy you and your residents yeah through you mr. mayor I do have an amendment that

4:11:55can be put in as part of the existing recommend list of recommendations but taking some of your

4:12:02comments away perhaps I could take that recommendation that I have in the email but also add in be

4:12:10considered for future consideration that that way staff have some latitude to work with and to assess

4:12:16as well based on your judgment at site plan whether this is worth its weight and its merits

4:12:23so I'm really trying to make sure we can focus and get this done um can I just ask do you have

4:12:29two things then I'm not I'm a little bit confused do you have an actual amendment to what's on the

4:12:35floor right now and a separate one like you just are talking about or do you have one issue that

4:12:40you want to bring forward I just want to make sure I understand so I'm going to look to Dylan

4:12:45because he has that amendment that's ready to go okay so I'm I'm not quite sure what's happening

4:12:51right now but it's okay we'll wait through it can you put up on the screen then what

4:12:58mr. mayor so we'll display what was sent in but noting that it's not moved or seconded yet

4:13:03no no I know so so is is is the is the bolded part your amendment yeah and everything else is

4:13:16is the same yeah but through you mr. mayor if I may like I'd be happy to add in the end with a

4:13:24comma be considered for future consideration okay so I'm just going to put I'm just going to play

4:13:33the rules really strict here is there a seconder for that you're seconding that amendment

4:13:42okay councillor Goller is seconding that all right so I have a lot of concerns with that

4:13:51I'm just going to state that up front um but councillor alti you go first thank you mayor Guthrie

4:13:58and through you to you I equally have the concerns about that and my concerns relate to the

4:14:05responsibilities professional responsibilities of staff and I would like to hear from staff

4:14:11about that because I've heard very clearly that you can entertain concerns like this

4:14:17as site plan so um I need to hear from you about this one this one's probably thank you

4:14:31through the mayor to the councillor so I think we've we've definitely heard it

4:14:35in the staff review and summary they're in the traffic section it already indicates that we'll

4:14:39be looking for a revised TIS and information as we go forward for it from a site plan perspective

4:14:46staff feel satisfied that they'll take a look at it and the professional engineers in the city

4:14:51which you know we didn't expect to have here this this evening we'll we'll do their job and

4:14:56their due diligence to ensure that any accesses are safe and and represent the community is appropriate

4:15:04thank you very much and with that I cannot support the amendment um I've heard loudly and

4:15:08clearly that staff and their professional judgment will assess what is necessary and is appropriate

4:15:17so any other questions on this before I call the vote then no okay so my advice is to revert back

4:15:26to maybe the possibility of a separate motion that is outside of the approval process that can try to

4:15:33capture you know something something separate but not this is very this is in the weeds this is really

4:15:41in the weeds and it should should not be uh should not be endorsed in my in my opinion so I'll call

4:15:47the vote is anyone against the amendment please raise your hand okay um so hauser and

4:15:57karan and wasan and downer and guthrie and busitil and everyone on the screen

4:16:06alt katyn billings gibson so that does fail okay so do you want to try to do something

4:16:13councillor chude that was my idea just just yeah I think whatever would if you do if you do hold

4:16:19that thought then I'll come I'll come back to you if you don't mind sure I'd like to I'd like to wrap

4:16:24up the recommendations that are on the floor so that we can just approve that or or vote the way

4:16:29you want sorry vote the way you want okay so I'm going to call the vote on the motions that have

4:16:34come from from our staff okay is anyone against the approval of this applicant okay nobody that's

4:16:42unanimous so that part's done okay and um so can I can I help you with with that that separate one

4:16:49did you like sort of the wording that I had I understand I understand so um I don't know if

4:16:59the clerks were listening to me rhyme off sort of some high-level wording there before but

4:17:05something to the effect of that planning staff taken to consideration the feedback that was

4:17:12captured through the rezoning process for future consideration here that the feedback provided

4:17:31through the zoning bylaw amendment process being included and considered during the site plan

4:17:34approval process for one clear road east that sounds good to me councillor chude how about you

4:17:40move it to make sure that you're on the record for it all right how's her sticking with ward six

4:17:48okay I'm going to call the vote on that everybody is that okay okay is anyone against that additional

4:17:54motion nobody that's unanimous okay thank you councillor chude and thank you to the applicants

4:18:01thank you for answering as I said some of those questions that were lingering I especially liked

4:18:07the math that you did on the commercial square footage before to next it's actually

4:18:12five six thousand seven thousand more um other than the the

4:18:18movie theater I saw Tron there last week it's quite a good movie everybody by the way

4:18:24uh so thank you very much okay um we are going to the bylaws

4:18:32and um I'm going to councillor Klassen please to look to move the bylaws for us thank you