Deputy Chief Administrative Officer of Public Services, or designate…

2:46:27and

2:46:28That's so I think we so do we have any more questions of

2:46:33Staff for that so councillor

2:46:40Yes, thank you through you chair

2:46:43Downer to staff

2:46:45Thanks for the presentation. I I really like where the report is going

2:46:49I I like the idea of the goal to increase revenue by 1.8 million and to create

2:46:56a new

2:46:57and that neutral

2:46:59operating model with the Sleeman center

2:47:02I I have I have some questions around the transition

2:47:07And this is this is to do with some of the

2:47:11Correspondence that we have received

2:47:14so my first question is around

2:47:17Um the transition year of 2026 2027 from my perspective right now

2:47:22I'm not entirely sure when the south end rec center is is going to open

2:47:28um and given that the um the contracts for recreational and youth ice

2:47:35Time are from september until

2:47:38March and that is typically how organizations plan their their their schedules for the year

2:47:45I'm curious if there is some thought in place around how we're going to transition those groups that

2:47:53potentially could see with this transition from the Sleeman center over into

2:47:58The new facility, which I I appreciate we're seeing a net increase of 130 hours a week in the system

2:48:05But I'm curious about that transition time and what the potential

2:48:09loss could be in the 2026 2027 season

2:48:14Through the chair to the counselor

2:48:16If I'm undersharing correctly, there would be no loss to current ice standards

2:48:22The facility allocation process that's just been approved

2:48:25Certainly also includes a sort of priority of how we take in bookings and events

2:48:31For one time we will slide in a little asterisk ahead of everything else that ensures that

2:48:38The current users at the south end community center will be maintained at those ice times

2:48:43We know now in our system that sometimes there's some movement year over year

2:48:47And organizations look for efficiencies

2:48:49So an organization may want to go from the single ice pad and move to south end or to west end to be able to run programming

2:48:57Both at the same time across both rinks

2:49:00So they won't lose anymore the facility allocation process as I now I'm entangling both of them together

2:49:07also

2:49:09Definitely will look to organizations for an expression of interest

2:49:14Where they might see growth and opportunity and what more they are looking for and as well as how they continue to serve community and

2:49:22address some equity and maybe potential barriers that exist

2:49:26So through the chair if I can also just jump in here and and just help to provide that reassurance

2:49:31The south end opens September 1st of this year. So 2026 that is the date that we are aiming for for opening

2:49:38So the reason the report before you and I know the two kind of have gotten mucked together

2:49:41But there's a reason why they're here before you this month

2:49:44We need to start allocating the new all the new ice time at the south end

2:49:49And we need to do that in time to get everybody moved there

2:49:53So nobody as as miss evans has said

2:49:55Nobody will lose ice time all of the ice time that will be

2:49:59Shuffled out of sleam and center to accommodate this new business model will be accommodated within the system

2:50:04And in fact, we're growing our ice time

2:50:05But the timing of this report is very very key for us because we need to get those forms out to our user groups

2:50:12So we can make sure we're allocating everybody

2:50:15And also using the allocation policy figure out who's going to get the extra ice time because we're adding ice time into the system

2:50:21So it really is two parts moving the the the hours out of the sleam and center for those long bookings

2:50:28And accommodating them

2:50:30Figuring out who is going to get the additional ice time using the allocation policy

2:50:34And do all of that timely enough so that we can let groups know where they're going to be for September 1st

2:50:40When the south end opens and all of our rinks have ice in so in short nobody's losing ice time

2:50:46We will accommodate all of the existing ice users, but we need to do that

2:50:51We need that approval this month so that we don't leave groups hanging until august and not know where they're going

2:50:57So if we can get this approval this month, then we will be on track to do our normal ice allocation policy

2:51:05And I think to councillor boost till's point all of the other spaces that this covers because this this isn't just simply about ice

2:51:13Thank you. I really appreciate both of those

2:51:16explanations

2:51:18I think that makes a lot of sense and

2:51:20hearing that the

2:51:22south end rec center is going to be opening on september 1st is exciting and

2:51:27And hearing how that course that complements this this plan. I think makes a lot of sense

2:51:35I think that there's a lot of benefit to the public to see to seeing the

2:51:41The sleam and center used more robustly in in sports and in in entertainment

2:51:47It is the I think it's the sports and entertainment center. So

2:51:51I I am really excited about this and I I also want to just recognize that building this capacity takes time

2:51:57I the report really clarifies that

2:52:01So building that that institutional capacity to both build build the infrastructure to support new new types of events, but then also to

2:52:10Get the get the

2:52:13The programming will also take time. So maybe actually my question could you elaborate a little bit on that?

2:52:18Could you talk about the timing and when we hope to see that goal of of increasing revenue by 1.8 million when we might hope to see that?

2:52:29Through the chair to the councillor

2:52:32That's certainly a bigger part of our work as we present a budget

2:52:36adjustment for the 2027

2:52:38budget

2:52:39We hope to present a few opportunities later this fall in that revenue neutral environment

2:52:47But there definitely is a transition involved because we haven't been as flexible or open

2:52:53Mr. Giles

2:52:55Has certainly turned down some opportunities in the last sort of six or eight months because we've had existing

2:53:01Contracts in place. So we'll certainly go back to them and say hey, we've got some time available

2:53:06And and find out where that is a new cheerleading event

2:53:11opportunity for a film and a large sort of sports

2:53:15trade show sale

2:53:16environment just as a couple of examples of the diversity

2:53:20of events or or space larger space that folks are looking for where the Sleeman Center

2:53:25Both with the large floor space and then additional seating can accommodate these events

2:53:33Thank you

2:53:35Okay, good councillor gore and then councillor kate

2:53:38Thank you and three chair downer to staff

2:53:42Thank you so much for the for the clear report. I really appreciate and I really appreciate the direction that this is going

2:53:48I did want to follow up

2:53:50something that you said miss evans is that

2:53:53Youth groups would still be able to book the event that would just pay the the full fee. Is that is that correct?

2:54:00And through the councillor to councillor Goller. Yes, we are proposing that the subsidy rate would not apply

2:54:07So then any rent would not be given the 40 for youth groups would not receive currently

2:54:12They receive the 42 and a half percent discount if the hourly rental rate is in the 300 dollar range

2:54:18They receive that discount where even if they're doing tournaments and

2:54:22Championships, they would not receive that it would pay the full rate

2:54:26We believe that we're offering more of an experience and a premier facility

2:54:32Where we shouldn't then be applying the youth

2:54:34Discount where groups then still have access to the subsidy at other recreation facilities

2:54:40Okay, okay. I I understand the logic and I appreciate that

2:54:43Could you help me understand? What is the impact of of that subsidy?

2:54:48I mean if if say all of the youth groups that currently booked the space this year still say well

2:54:56You know, we still want to have this this premium experience is this larger

2:55:00Space what would be the the impact to you know to us or to them so that I understand how much more

2:55:07We would be asking or we would be getting from those groups

2:55:12Uh through the chair to the councillor

2:55:14Really the difference on the 42 and a half percent but currently to give you some perspective all of our

2:55:21ice rentals so specifically to ice is about 300 000 right now

2:55:26So the difference on the discount doesn't come from another source. It is just purely waived

2:55:32So not all of our ice rentals are youth

2:55:35But on the high high extreme if it's 50 percent dollars there might be another 150 000

2:55:42In revenue that assumes the current

2:55:46About 30 hours a week of youth time that exists

2:55:50So I would say that's a bit inflated but from a reference point of view for for Sleiman on a on a

2:55:58Revenue of 2.4 million. This is the small portion for us. So it is easily or more available mitigated in

2:56:06Other events and programming. Okay. Okay. Thank you for all please through the chair. I just also wanted to um

2:56:12Remind council that this is consistent with what we do at riverrun center. We don't offer the youth discount at riverrun center as well

2:56:19It is about that premier facilities and making sure that we're utilizing them

2:56:24For the best the best purpose

2:56:27So we want to make sure we're accommodating those groups and finding

2:56:31The ice time for them in all of our other facilities at that discounted rate

2:56:35And so I just wanted to keep reiterating that because we've had some feedback that there's a concern that this is

2:56:40impacting groups

2:56:42They will be able to transfer and take that youth discount with them to the other facilities

2:56:47Okay, thank you. Thank you very much for that and something else that that was said in the presentation

2:56:52um, you mentioned not having disruptions to groups so so that I understand if a youth

2:56:59You know learned to skate or or a

2:57:03League books in ice time, but then there's a big event like you know

2:57:07A circus comes to town and they needed for for the week. Would we then cancel cancel the reservations for those?

2:57:14um

2:57:15Leagues in preference for the big events that come

2:57:19Uh through the chair to the counselor. Um, currently we are doing some of that now and making every effort to move

2:57:27organizations to other places

2:57:30Except the demand um, it's certainly on ice timeless on summer floor time

2:57:35Is that there's nowhere else to move folks? We recognize with youth, um ice sport

2:57:41Specifically that they get you you still have a consistent time

2:57:46My granddaughter plays uh every saturday at three and practices every tuesday at five

2:57:52And so that reliance is much more heavy on youth and the expectation we have to youth

2:57:58We feel adults are a little more flexible and can understand what is happening

2:58:03And so continuing with some of those adult programming

2:58:06Will move or push out. Um, but also then in youth sport is tied to competition and

2:58:13Championship schedules so you can't just push out inevitably as well

2:58:17But we also recognize that when there's nowhere to move folks we may have to turn down

2:58:22The large circus event

2:58:24For instance because we're locked into those longer term contracts

2:58:28Okay, so so so that I understand you only push people out if you can find a replacement

2:58:34But you do not say sorry folks this week. There's no ice time because we have another event

2:58:39Uh through the chair. Yeah, that's correct. Yeah

2:58:42Okay, okay

2:58:45And if if I understand if council were to

2:58:48To to support recommendations uh here

2:58:53one and two

2:58:55But if we were to not support recommendation number three the impact

2:59:01Would be about 150 000 dollars in terms of revenue to the city is that ballpark

2:59:08Go ahead

2:59:09So through the chair, I think we can come back to you and try to quantify that before the end of the month

2:59:15And so if it was simply about the differential on the youth discount

2:59:19We can come to you with a firm number because I think miss evans is trying to calculate that on the fly

2:59:23So in fairness, we'll come back to you. Um, but I do still want to emphasize that that the relocation of the groups to the other

2:59:31locations is really what is the important

2:59:34What is the important piece and so

2:59:38It it's almost like one doesn't happen without the other because we are looking to relocate those groups out and take their youth facility

2:59:44Discount somewhere else and apply it. So it's going to be difficult math for us to do

2:59:49Unless you're asking us to assume nobody is being moved out of the Sleeman center and is retaining all of their current rental subsidy

2:59:56What what I would ask is

2:59:59Could we change the booking policy so that if a big event comes the

3:00:04I stand for that week has canceled

3:00:07And we don't have to find them a replacement

3:00:09Which you know given, um, you know in a six month period we might have maybe three or four events

3:00:16Which means that most of the time those sports leagues or groups can still use the ice on a week to week basis

3:00:23And it could be that

3:00:25A few practices have to be missed and and maybe that's just a risk of booking

3:00:29At the Sleeman center versus booking in the south end where you know that you're not going to be cancelled. Is that possible?

3:00:36So we certainly through the chair

3:00:38We certainly would not recommend that the time to accommodate the groups is now when we have available ice time at the south end

3:00:44So the time to move the groups and make sure we get guaranteed ice for those groups within our system

3:00:50Is is now we will still continue to take one-off bookings and we will still continue to look for

3:00:57Opportunities to do those special events

3:00:59But no we are recommending that we not take those long term

3:01:04September to March bookings at Sleeman center

3:01:06Because it's very very difficult both for for miss evans and mr. Giles to be out

3:01:11Trying to attract

3:01:12film shoots and large-scale events and concerts if every time they get an inquiry they then have to go and try to bump

3:01:20Groups to another arena where we may no longer have ice available

3:01:24If we do it now before we allocate for the whole season

3:01:28We can make sure we're getting those groups the ice time

3:01:31So we we certainly would not recommend that that would be an approach that we beneficial either to the user groups

3:01:37Or to our staff's ability to try to sell the Sleeman center to larger events

3:01:42We think that the best thing to do is to accommodate those long terms

3:01:45September to March bookings within our existing ice time now when we're bringing this out then online

3:01:51And so we certainly wouldn't recommend that you change that policy because I think it would be difficult both for us

3:01:57And it would be very hard on those groups because a lot of times they'd end up getting bumped and we'd have nowhere to put them

3:02:02If I could I understand that the subsidies been removed, but they could still book in September to March

3:02:09They would just have to pay the full fee

3:02:12Through the chair to the counselor part of this operating model changes that currently we wouldn't book those longer

3:02:19Sessions that far in advance

3:02:21So right now we issue dates and availability to organizations in may time frame and we get back to them with final

3:02:29Contracts sort of middle of June beginning of July for September to March

3:02:34So if somebody wanted to book today at the arena, they would we would have signed a contract with them last July

3:02:41Thus blocking us in or locking us in

3:02:43Where we're suggesting is we will change the timeline on some of those bookings for our sort of our

3:02:49Individual practices or even for games on rentals so that we would sign those contracts in

3:02:55January or even December for March the third so still opportunities

3:03:00I recognize that there is also then tournaments or larger championships

3:03:04Which would be really fun to play at Sleeman Center with potential more people

3:03:08Those require

3:03:10timelines and bookings that need to go farther out and those are weekend bookings not just one-off hours

3:03:16And so we can do those on longer contracts because they help both the community and the Sleeman Center

3:03:25through your chair, um, I think

3:03:27My question is could we

3:03:30Adjust the policy so that the leagues can still book

3:03:34With the discount, but then they get bumped and actually there's no replacement ice time

3:03:39I'm just thinking unless you're expecting that once this model comes in are we going to have bookings consistently?

3:03:45most weekends

3:03:47Or are we going to expect a couple a season that I think that's what I'm trying to conceptualize

3:03:52Is it possible for the youth leagues to still book the ice time at the discount?

3:03:57And a couple times a month it might be that because you booked this this particular

3:04:02Ice pad you actually don't have a space this week

3:04:06So through the chair anything is of course possible and we will take your direction

3:04:09We're bringing you this operating model because we have heard loud and clear that we need to use Sleeman Center differently and use the space to be more

3:04:16productive

3:04:17Help the businesses downtown reduce the burden on the on the tax base. Of course, we will take your direction

3:04:23We don't recommend that because our time to accommodate these groups is now when we're adding the south end and we're adding inventory in

3:04:30So we don't think it would be beneficial for the groups to do that

3:04:34um, and so

3:04:35We would actually be hurting ourselves on both sides

3:04:38We would be

3:04:39Making it a little bit more difficult for us to use Sleeman Center in this new model and to access additional events

3:04:45And we'd be burdening the groups by bumping them and having nowhere else to put them

3:04:48It's much better for us to do this now and this is a once in a I don't know

3:04:53I don't

3:04:54Decade opportunity where we're bringing two pads of available ice time on

3:04:59Now is the time to do it when we can absolutely

3:05:02Accommodate all of those hours and give the groups their locked in time that they have now and give them that assurance at the youth discount rate

3:05:10If we don't and we say okay

3:05:12We're going to let you keep booking at Sleeman Center

3:05:15You know regardless regardless of what rent has paid because that actually is a little bit secondary to this

3:05:20But we'll bump you if we can get bookings

3:05:23I I still feel that it's probably going to slow Ms. Evans and mr. Giles down and their ability to market Sleeman Center

3:05:28But more importantly now we're going to be going to those groups and bumping them and having nowhere to and canceling their ice time

3:05:34So for me

3:05:36We're bringing an amount of ice time to the Jigwood State

3:05:38Let's do it now. Well, we're bringing two pads of wide open ice time into our inventory get everybody accommodated

3:05:46Everyone's going to have exactly the amount of ice time now and people are going to have more either existing clients

3:05:51Are going to have more ice time or new clients are going to be able to come into our system

3:05:53But this is our window of opportunity to do it

3:05:58Okay. Thank you. I appreciate it. I do understand where you're coming from

3:06:02Chair Downer, when the vote comes,

3:06:05I would like one and two separate from the number three please.

3:06:10Okay. So we had Councillor Ciaran,

3:06:13Councillor Hauser, Councillor,

3:06:18there's somebody else but I'll get,

3:06:20so I'll boost the tail and two and then we have Councillor Catalan at the end.

3:06:28Okay. Councillor, oh, was she?

3:06:30Okay. Councillor Keaton.

3:06:32Thank you. I don't have questions.

3:06:37I only have comments. Can I do those now?

3:06:40Can we save the comments till the end?

3:06:42Can I come back to you?

3:06:43Sure.

3:06:44Thank you.

3:06:45Councillor Ciaran. Great.

3:06:50I'm following up on

3:06:52Councillor Goller's line of questioning just about the youth subsidy because

3:06:56I recognize that we're making a change here and I recognize we have a window of opportunity,

3:07:02but we haven't opened the new facility,

3:07:04the dust hasn't settled and a lot of

3:07:05these youth sports associations have already set their fees and their rates for

3:07:102026. So I'm wondering if you could help me understand the impact,

3:07:14this is a two-part question,

3:07:15the impact of just deferring that clause or amending it to January 2027,

3:07:24whether that youth subsidy would allow a time for the dust to settle and

3:07:29other user groups to then plan not only their regular league play and

3:07:33their budgets and their sign-up process,

3:07:36but also we're talking a lot about ice time here,

3:07:40but the Sleeman Center in the summer months has,

3:07:43if I remember correctly,

3:07:45we've been the site for youth double Dutch skipping championships or dance competition.

3:07:53There have been other non-ice related Sleeman Center bookings where it's youth tournaments,

3:07:59youth practices and training,

3:08:01youth conferences, youth skills camps.

3:08:05I don't want to cut the youth subsidy for ice time when it may impact a lot of

3:08:10other different youth sports and activities.

3:08:12So could you comment on those two items?

3:08:14So through the chair, I think that's work that we can go away and look to see how

3:08:18often were those one-off type events accessing the youth subsidy and

3:08:22if Council chooses to leave the youth subsidy in place for those types of events,

3:08:26we can get you that information in a memo form.

3:08:29I think, yes, Dana is nodding. So good.

3:08:31I think to the broader question though of the groups having already set their rates,

3:08:35if we move their ice time out of Sleeman Center into the other arenas,

3:08:38there will be no impact on their rates because they will be accessing the youth subsidy.

3:08:42So that is really why it's important for us.

3:08:44Again, I'm sure I'm sounding like I'm repeating myself,

3:08:47but to move those groups who booked September to March ice time,

3:08:50we need to do that now to exactly address your concerns.

3:08:53So their rates aren't impacted if they've already set their fees,

3:08:56because by moving them to another arena,

3:08:59they'll be getting the youth subsidy.

3:09:01So I think looking at the youth subsidy for those one-offs,

3:09:05we can do that and get you a memo.

3:09:07Looking at the youth subsidy across,

3:09:10we want the groups to move out of Sleeman Center be accommodated elsewhere,

3:09:15and they will then have the youth subsidy still applied to their fees.

3:09:18Okay. Thanks. So this is more of a process question than for you, Madam Chair,

3:09:22is I don't want to vote for or against item three without that additional information.

3:09:27Can we just defer item number three to the end of the month until we have

3:09:30more information to be able to make an appropriate decision?

3:09:34Would that be a motion of deferral or we just have to pass or fail it?

3:09:37Can we do that?

3:09:39Through you, Madam Chair.

3:09:40I think we've done it before.

3:09:42It really depends what council's intention is.

3:09:44I mean, if you pass it tonight,

3:09:45it's going to come to council at the end of the month and it can be voted on and amended as normal.

3:09:49If you defer it, it's still just going to appear a council at the end of the month.

3:09:52Okay. I think deferral is probably the way to go to the end of the month,

3:09:56because if I were to vote on it today,

3:09:59I would vote against, but I don't want the motion to fail because if it fails,

3:10:02then it doesn't show up at the end of the month.

3:10:04Okay. So we'll take them separately.

3:10:05So deferral.

3:10:06We can do that at that time.

3:10:08Okay. So now I have

3:10:11Councillor Hauser and then Councillor Bousetail and Councillor Chew.

3:10:15Thank you through the chair.

3:10:17We've heard a lot about families that are going out of the city.

3:10:21I know we touched on this briefly,

3:10:23but I'm going out of the city and using ice time in other areas and there are

3:10:26wait lists, the 30 hours that we're using,

3:10:31and now we have 130 hours opening up,

3:10:33was there any accommodation or factoring in those wait lists and

3:10:36those people that have been going elsewhere?

3:10:39Because they're all going to be supposedly coming now to the new booking.

3:10:43So how quickly is that 130 hours going to be taken up?

3:10:49Through the chair to the Councillor,

3:10:51I don't have data on other organizations wait lists.

3:10:55We certainly have heard from one larger organization or

3:10:58a loud voice recently in the community,

3:11:02but I haven't been able to validate or work with them on that.

3:11:06We will knowing that we're adding more ice specifically,

3:11:10but more time both in the pool and in the gyms.

3:11:14When we open the South End Community Center,

3:11:15we will ask organizations what they're hoping for,

3:11:19what would be their dream now and in the future with more time.

3:11:24I'm trust we'll hear from Pickleball that they're looking for more gym time.

3:11:27And so what does that mean and what does that look like to them?

3:11:29Is it truly only one more hour a week for one organization or is it 12?

3:11:34And so getting some real pieces, there is lots of growth in sport and

3:11:39recreation happening across not just Guelph, Ontario and Canada and

3:11:44both indoors and out.

3:11:46And so it's just where and how we can as municipality accommodate,

3:11:50we'll do our very best to work and include growth.

3:11:54And it also include folks that don't currently have any access to our facilities as well.

3:12:00Thank you.

3:12:03Okay, thank you.

3:12:03Councillor Boussa-Till, is that your question?

3:12:05Yes, just so I am clear, I've heard it a number of times.

3:12:13When a user of the Sleeman Center is a youth organization,

3:12:17they will carry that discount to one of the other recreation centers.

3:12:22I just want to be very clear, that is what I'm taking away from here.

3:12:26What I see, and if staff can just tell me I'm on the right path here,

3:12:31is the process of disentangling the youth facility discount

3:12:36isn't just about the Sleeman Center, it's also to make it consistent around

3:12:41River Run Center and through Suzuki String School that book, The River Run Center.

3:12:46The Sleeman Center, the Arts and so on, that don't get that discount in a municipal facility.

3:12:52So what I'm seeing is that, and thank you for this report,

3:12:56because the Sleeman Center for me is an underutilized asset.

3:12:59I want rock concerts and you know, circuses and all sorts of things,

3:13:03and I understand the scheduling and planning, but it's also an underutilized asset

3:13:07where we can be generating some revenue and culturally and sports-wise and so on.

3:13:14So for me, the separation of the youth facility discount

3:13:19makes it consistent with how other youth groups are treated in the city of Guelph

3:13:24around municipal facilities, but also says you're not losing it,

3:13:27we're just moving you here to a different kind of facility and opening it up,

3:13:32opening up the Sleeman Center so that we can create some better revenue opportunities.

3:13:39And from my experience with just the planning and scheduling and bookings,

3:13:44not just at the city, but overall, is the city's going to know two years from now

3:13:48that the circus is coming up the state and it's blocked out.

3:13:52So can you just say yes, I'm on the right path because for me,

3:13:56I am absolutely fine with item number three, the way that it is,

3:14:00because it creates that equity across the system.

3:14:06Through the Councillor to the Chair, yes.

3:14:08And we are also very excited to bring some new opportunities,

3:14:12concerts and events for the community into Guelph as well.

3:14:16Thank you.

3:14:18Thank you, Councillor Chew.

3:14:20Yeah, through you, Madam Chair.

3:14:25I guess there are three buckets that I'm really considering here.

3:14:28I think first of the financial model, there's no question that,

3:14:33that 1.6 million dollar shortfall should continue.

3:14:38It's very unsustainable.

3:14:39I think we're all in agreement here and we appreciate your work as well to kind

3:14:43of bring us up to speed on that deficiency.

3:14:48And the second bucket is the vision for the Sleam and Centre.

3:14:51And I think, of course, we could be utilizing it much better than it is.

3:14:57However, I think to the folks that have young families in the city,

3:15:03like, not only is it like a cultural disposition to have ice time at the Sleam and Centre,

3:15:12but this is a necessity as well.

3:15:15Like, I understand where people are coming from when they say that ice time

3:15:21inevitably will be reduced because the booking is really difficult.

3:15:25So I empathize with people that reached out to me on that point.

3:15:32And then the third is also the transition with the additional capacity

3:15:36at the South End Community Centre.

3:15:39So three buckets there.

3:15:43I guess I'm just going to ask, we don't, we're not in a position yet to really look

3:15:49at the monitoring of the South End Community Centre and just, and the booking system

3:15:53because it's not yet online.

3:15:55But like, have staff considered some kind of a phase transition where, you know,

3:16:02Council could observe the system demand for the, after the pads are open before kind

3:16:08of making a permanent change to the Sleam and Booking model.

3:16:11And maybe you can kind of help me with that piece there because I think some monitoring

3:16:19of the Twin Pads and the Rec Centre I think will help us ascertain as well as whether

3:16:27we would want to keep some kind of exclusive booking at the Sleam and Centre for ice time

3:16:32because that's really what it comes down to for people.

3:16:35It's not about the youth subsidy.

3:16:37In my opinion, it's about the ice time, right?

3:16:40So can you kind of help anchor my thinking a little bit?

3:16:44Through the chair to the Councillor, I think in some of the correspondence

3:16:49that Council's received this week is about some changes to Sleam and Centre,

3:16:55but more about is there enough ice capacity across the City of Guelph?

3:17:00And we're relying on the needs assessment that was attached

3:17:05to the South End Community Centre growth that is looking for that eighth pad,

3:17:10which we haven't budgeted for or even validated whether that's still an accurate number.

3:17:16And in the coming years, and when South End does come online, we will do that work.

3:17:22Those new emerging sports could come along that need more ice or floor or gym space as well,

3:17:28and so we need to be responsible to adapt to all of those needs and uses.

3:17:34We will continue to review annually.

3:17:39We do work with community organisations to help them optimise and find efficiencies

3:17:45in how they use our places and spaces.

3:17:47And so that is maybe that monitoring specifically to South End that you're looking for,

3:17:54and that is happening.

3:17:55We support regular rental clients with some version of sort of legacy,

3:18:00where if they've had a certain amount of time in our facilities, we hope to honour that.

3:18:07It's not necessarily the same like for like place and space as we look to adjust these pieces as well.

3:18:15So think that we are set up to do that support and monitoring for you,

3:18:21and know that future work is and will be ongoing once we get in and settled to South End as well,

3:18:28to look at all of our arena spaces.

3:18:32Okay, and like you're more familiar than I am, but can you just walk me through like how we liaise

3:18:41with dedicated user groups like the Agwalf Linerhockey Association, the Ringette Group and the Women's Group,

3:18:47and like how that legacy component can be carried forward because there are a number of user groups,

3:18:56and I think the concern is that we're inevitably picking as well as to how we go about dedicating time,

3:19:06and I think that's a hard position for you to be put in as I can imagine.

3:19:12So how do we kind of create a system where we don't have to be cherry picking with lack of better words?

3:19:21Through the chair, to the councillor, we're going to rely heavily on the facility allocation policy

3:19:28that will continue to review who isn't and who is getting access to space.

3:19:34And so there has been adjustments.

3:19:36An outdoor sports user has seen a reduction or an adult sports user has seen a reduction of hours in the last couple of years

3:19:44to prioritise youth groups, for instance, outside on a sports field.

3:19:49So you're seeing that almost the list of what order we choose groups in, and so focusing on Guelph,

3:19:56focusing on youth first, doesn't also exclusively mean that we won't take or work with the other ages.

3:20:04If you will, because we need to find a balance across our community, and it is a balance and it is a certain fine line.

3:20:13We don't want to be cherry-poking.

3:20:14We're not taking the largest group just because they're the largest group, but there are large groups that have more time over others for sure.

3:20:22Thank you, and I'm just reminded of that recreation facility allocation process that we just passed.

3:20:27But I think I'm going to follow up with you before the end of the month on just the monitoring period

3:20:33and the transition to the South End Community Centre as we're framing it.

3:20:37And then, yeah, like, so like I understand where all the youth groups are coming from in terms of ice time,

3:20:47inevitably kind of being pushed, shuffled around.

3:20:52So I think if we can be a bit more, we can be intentional about that monitoring period.

3:20:59For me, like, that would give me some peace of mind.

3:21:02But yeah, I'll have some questions for them in the month for you.

3:21:04And I think some of the youth groups and people in the audience here today feel free to engage with us as well.

3:21:10We would highly encourage that.

3:21:11That's what community of the whole is for.

3:21:14So that's all I have.

3:21:16Thank you.

3:21:19Okay, thank you.

3:21:20I'm going to, are there any more questions before I move to comments?

3:21:24Councillor Katelyn, you had a comment.

3:21:26Yes, thank you very much.

3:21:30I think that staff did exactly what we asked them to do.

3:21:33We just passed an 8% property tax increase and we were looking at cost savings,

3:21:40where can we make the most use of our commercial grade facilities?

3:21:46And this report delivers on all of that.

3:21:52Personally, I think that if we don't pass the use family discount,

3:21:57then we're making a decision based on perception rather than the reality.

3:22:03We've got two new ranks coming online.

3:22:06We're waiting until that happens.

3:22:10And we know that there's going to be expanded time.

3:22:13You're not going to be in competition with commercial events.

3:22:18There's free parking.

3:22:19It's going to be easier.

3:22:21It's going to be easier to be in these other facilities.

3:22:25And it's not going to reduce any amount of the time.

3:22:28You're actually getting an increase.

3:22:31We're trying to make a responsible decision here that will lower the future needs

3:22:38for increases on property taxes.

3:22:40And we are increasing value to our families.

3:22:45So I think that this is a great report.

3:22:47And I'm going to be supporting all through motions.

3:22:50Thanks.

3:22:54Are there any additional comments?

3:22:57Councillor Bousta.

3:22:59Thank you, Ditto to Councillor Caton.

3:23:01And perhaps the economic opportunities is the lens that I use to look at this.

3:23:07There are the sponsorship opportunities.

3:23:09And in addition to the emails we've received about having to go to Cambridge

3:23:14to look for ICE, I'm aware of cultural groups that have had to go elsewhere.

3:23:19So there's the economic loss, again, to the arts and culture.

3:23:23And City Council's commitment to the cultural plan, our arts and cultural community.

3:23:28So I see this as an opportunity.

3:23:30It is a different facility.

3:23:31We have a south end recreation opportunity with a youth subsidy that's going to continue

3:23:37for ICE rinks.

3:23:39So I see this as an economic opportunity.

3:23:42Thank you.

3:23:44Councillor Goller.

3:23:46Thank you, Andrea, Chair Downer.

3:23:48I really appreciate that, as my council colleagues have said, staff did what council

3:23:54asked to do to find better use of this facility.

3:23:58I support the changes in the booking.

3:24:00I understand that.

3:24:02I will be voting to defer item number three so that we can understand the impact, the

3:24:09actual impact, so that those youth groups that would come and use the space.

3:24:14And I think that if it is a smaller impact, we should still be affording them the discount,

3:24:19understanding that leagues will not be given the opportunity to book that far in advance.

3:24:23But if it comes to, you know, the end of August and we still don't have something booked for

3:24:29the fall, there may still be an opportunity for them to book in and have those youth programs

3:24:34available at the Justine Munn Centre.

3:24:37Thank you.

3:24:38Are there any other comments?

3:24:43I did want to ask Deputy CEO Crack Butch, if she had any comments before we went to vote

3:24:47and then I have something to say too.

3:24:51Certainly thank you for the opportunity.

3:24:52So certainly I just want to emphasize that we have heard, so we will get a supplemental

3:24:56memo to you that breaks down the difference in how many of those events at Sleeman Centre

3:25:01that would be moved elsewhere are currently receiving the subsidy versus how many are

3:25:05those sort of one-off type events.

3:25:07So we will get you that memo on the agenda for the end of the month and certainly want

3:25:13to continue.

3:25:14Mr. Giles and Ms. Evans are and I are all available to talk to any user groups to help assure

3:25:21how we are going to accommodate that ice time that's moving out of the Sleeman Centre

3:25:25and how we will make sure that we are maintaining the current ice time.

3:25:29And then maybe just the only other comment is we're not the only city that struggles

3:25:33with available ice.

3:25:34That is common.

3:25:35I think there's a recent report coming out of Centre Wellington that they are struggling

3:25:38with having enough ice surfaces.

3:25:41This is a moment in time where we are gaining, let's call it one and a half pads in the south

3:25:46end if we're talking about moving some of the Sleeman ice to there.

3:25:49So it is still exciting.

3:25:51I don't want to lose track of the fact that we are adding ice inventory and thank you

3:25:55to Council for committing to the south end community centre because it is important.

3:25:59We also recognize that it doesn't completely solve the problem and that lots of other

3:26:04municipalities struggle with this.

3:26:06And so I think the commitment from the team is once south end is open and again speaking

3:26:10specifically to ice time, we'll continue to do that evaluation so that we can look and

3:26:15come back to Council about what future needs are going to look like for arenas and if there

3:26:19is additional growth needed and at what point in the future we need to do that because we

3:26:25do recognize that across south western Ontario ice time is a challenge.

3:26:29Okay, thank you.

3:26:31Thank you.

3:26:32Councillor Keaton.

3:26:33So it comes to Coran.

3:26:34Thanks, Chair Downer.

3:26:35I just had one quick question that sparked.

3:26:38Do we have a new ice pad in the capital budget for 2023?

3:26:43Is that in our 10 year capital plan?

3:26:45Through the chair.

3:26:46No, we don't have any additional ice surfaces.

3:26:51And so the intention was that once south end was online and we're looking at capacity and

3:26:56evaluating that needs assessment, we would then come back and determine.

3:27:01We also have a couple of our arenas that are aging infrastructure and so I think more than

3:27:04likely what you're going to see is capital needs related to maintaining our existing

3:27:09arenas that are aging.

3:27:11But we will come back to the future term of Council once we have sort of evaluated that

3:27:16after the south end is open and then start to project out the future needs.

3:27:20Okay, so the comment, so what I would say is having been around I think with Councillor

3:27:27Billings when we opened this, the Sleeman Centre 100 years ago, but it was intended

3:27:34to be a spectator facility.

3:27:37That's why we built it.

3:27:38It was, you know, the storm was looking for a new home, but it was a spectator facility,

3:27:44a premier one that had seating for spectator, not just sports, events and concerts and everything.

3:27:52We haven't been able to achieve that one part of that on the entertainment, on the strictly

3:27:57entertainment and on the side of that, but you know it still is a great facility.

3:28:03And so I think, you know, and Councils all through those years, all through these last

3:28:0725 years have been looking for a way to better utilize the Sleeman Centre to its full potential

3:28:13and we've never really been there.

3:28:15This is actually the first time and thank you to staff that we've actually seen a plan

3:28:20that can bring us there.

3:28:21And part of it's been that we, you know, the delay of the South End Rec Centre and these

3:28:25delays, you know, you don't think about it at the time.

3:28:28You think, oh, we're delaying, you know, that, but you're also, you're also creating other

3:28:33backup problems like we've had at the Sleeman Centre that have not allowed us to meet that

3:28:38potential and has cost us in other ways.

3:28:41So delays cost in many ways, not only in the actual construction process, but then the

3:28:47other, the opportunities lost as well.

3:28:50So I did want to add that and so this is, I think this is a great opportunity.

3:28:54I think it's going to be a transition time and I do want to see some monitoring of how

3:28:59we go through this and I think it's, like I said, I think it's a great opportunity and

3:29:07I'd like to thank staff for bringing forward this work now and hopefully we can work with

3:29:14the groups to work out the issues with the South End Rec Centre booking and how, you

3:29:22know, we can utilize the Sleeman Centre too if there's no bookings and at the beginning

3:29:27of the month and they want to book extra practices in there, that can be done.

3:29:31So I think that allows that kind of flexibility within there too.

3:29:36So I will separate the motions.

3:29:39So I need a mover for 1 and 2.

3:29:44Okay, Councillor Hauser and Councillor Richardson.

3:29:48Seconds that, is there anyone opposed to 1 and 2?

3:29:53Okay, seeing none.

3:29:56Then number three is that the youth is about the youth facility discount.

3:30:01So I know someone to entertain the idea of referral.

3:30:06Councillor Goller and Councillor Caron wanted to put the motion of a deferral.

3:30:11Is it a referral or deferral?

3:30:12Would you prefer?

3:30:13I would ask the clerk.

3:30:15Through you, Madam Chair, typically a motion would be put on the floor and then deferred.

3:30:19So typically you'd have a mover and seconder for number three and then the idea is to add

3:30:22debate and discuss it at the end of the month.

3:30:25Can we ask you to do, no, okay, who would put number three on the floor?

3:30:29So the booster tail, seconded by Councillor Billings.

3:30:32Then Councillor Goller now, Councillor Caron have a referral.

3:30:36Okay, so can we vote on the referral?

3:30:40Is there anyone opposed?

3:30:43Through you, Madam Chair, do we have a seconder on the deferral?

3:30:45I just want to make sure I have that noted.

3:30:46Yes, Councillor Caron.

3:30:47Thank you.

3:30:48Is there anyone opposed to the referral of this?

3:30:50We're going to be voting on this at the end of the month.

3:30:52So 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6.

3:30:57So that passes.

3:30:59Sorry, that fails.

3:31:02That motion, the referral fails and we'll go back to the main number three.

3:31:09And then still at the end of the month, we will still be debating this regardless.

3:31:14So anyone opposed to number three?

3:31:17So there's 1, 2, 3, 3, Councillor, as opposed to that.

3:31:22Through you, Madam Chair, I just need you to verbalize the votes against as the Chair.

3:31:27For vote results, please.

3:31:28So if you can say the name of the members.

3:31:30Okay, Councillor Goller, Councillor Hauser, Councillor Chew and Councillor Caron against.

3:31:40So that passes.

3:31:43Do we need to put the whole all three motions on the floor again?

3:31:46Three, Madam Chair, no, all three motions will appear at council at the end of the month.

3:31:50Okay, I think we're we've completed that.

3:31:54Thank you to city staff for bringing that forward.

3:31:58And then I think we, you know what, I don't have the last page at the agenda in front of me.

3:32:05Do you have it?

3:32:13So there are no votes.

3:32:14Okay.

3:32:15So are there any service area announcements for public services?

3:32:20No.

3:32:21I just need a motion to adjourn then.

3:32:23Councillor Bousetail, seconded by Councillor Richardson.

3:32:27Is anyone opposed?

3:32:29That passes.

3:32:31See you next week.

3:32:32Thank you.

3:32:35I wasn't sure whether there was anything like any other bylaws or anything.

3:32:40By the way, we don't do those, do we?