Mayor, the service area chairs of Public Services and Infrastructure, Development and Environment…

3:03:00It's the Joint Social Services

3:03:02and Land Ambulance Committee Update Report.

3:03:05Our esteemed Chief Administrative Officer, Scott Stewart,

3:03:09is going to do a little presentation

3:03:13and then kick it back on over to us

3:03:16if we have any questions.

3:03:18And so Scott, thank you so much.

3:03:19I'll turn it over to you.

3:03:22Terrific and good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council.

3:03:25I'm pleased to briefly give you an update

3:03:28on your direction from October 17th.

3:03:30You'll see that on the next slide that comes up

3:03:33just as a reminder.

3:03:35That's where you directed the Mayor and I

3:03:36to work with CEO Wilson and Warden Lennox,

3:03:40and we've done just that and report back to you

3:03:42by no later than Q1 2024.

3:03:45So I think we've come in under the gun there with that one

3:03:49and we've reviewed their direction.

3:03:51And I will say this, the CEO and the warden

3:03:54were very receptive and willing to accommodate your request.

3:03:57And in fact, we're dealing with it this week

3:03:59at the county council.

3:04:00I think if I've got to write myself,

3:04:03it'll be on the 29th this week so that it lands

3:04:06sort of at the same time with both councils

3:04:08getting an update quasi at the same time,

3:04:11but not quite at the same time.

3:04:13So again, if you approve the recommendation before you,

3:04:17we will have created a new committee creatively titled

3:04:20Joint Social Services Land Ambulance Committee,

3:04:23and which will have four members of county council.

3:04:27And I think very exciting for us,

3:04:29we have four members of city council.

3:04:31We had to come up with a way to appoint members

3:04:33of council, of course.

3:04:35And so you will have read that we are recommending

3:04:37that the chairs of public services, IDE and governance,

3:04:40and because the mayor is already on the existing committee,

3:04:44we've defaulted to add in the vice chair of governance.

3:04:48This is yours to accept or change,

3:04:51but we had to come up with some logic and apply it.

3:04:53We didn't feel like we should be in the business

3:04:55of picking folks, so we've tried to address it

3:04:57in a way that feels like there'll be some interaction

3:05:01for those committee members.

3:05:03And again, you could disagree with that,

3:05:05but I will leave that amongst yourselves.

3:05:07If that's where you want to be, we're not married to it.

3:05:10We just picked the process for that

3:05:11so that to move you through it.

3:05:13But I'll just a quick little reminder.

3:05:16You do review the chair of positions on a regular basis.

3:05:19So if that is an issue, it might be accommodated

3:05:22in another way that will come along

3:05:23as you review the chair of positions.

3:05:26For your information, one of the struggles we had,

3:05:29not struggles, but one of the concerns we had

3:05:31is just the staff that will be involved.

3:05:33So you'll see that it will be DCO, Clark Bush, myself,

3:05:37chief doer, and general manager, Vilco,

3:05:40will be the main staff you will see involved.

3:05:42And of course, with some behind the scenes coordination

3:05:45that happens through GM O'Brien

3:05:47with his counterpart at the county.

3:05:49So again, the structure at the county

3:05:51is different than the structure here.

3:05:53Chief doer does, participates differently

3:05:57at the county than he does here,

3:05:58but we've also got a balance with,

3:06:00you don't get participation by all the general managers here

3:06:03at our county, at our committee the whole,

3:06:06but what you do have is you've got the executive team.

3:06:08And so that's an important piece here

3:06:10that especially DCO, Clark Bush has recognized,

3:06:13that will be our senior staffer.

3:06:15I'll play a role with the CEO Wilson, of course.

3:06:18And then we just want to make sure that GM Vilco is involved

3:06:22because it's not just about the paramedic service,

3:06:25it's about the facilities.

3:06:27And of course, it'll be about fleet.

3:06:29So those are also activities that get lost along the way.

3:06:32And we've been on pause way too long.

3:06:34You'll recall the joint session we had in here

3:06:36with the Olive County Council.

3:06:38We've paused way too long on the future of the facilities

3:06:41to service the greater Wellington community

3:06:44and of course, including Guelph.

3:06:45Finally, budgets and decisions of course,

3:06:48will be discussed at this new committee,

3:06:50but all final decisions will be made

3:06:51by the home council who has the actual authority.

3:06:55So EMS will be here,

3:06:57social services will be at the county,

3:06:59but this is a long way.

3:07:00So if you can sort of see it similar to committee

3:07:03to hold discussions and it goes to city council,

3:07:06and it is a bit of a blast to the past.

3:07:08This has happened before.

3:07:09So some council members both here and at the county

3:07:11will remember that there was four and four.

3:07:14And I think this is a great step back

3:07:17to get to this place, greater involvement.

3:07:19You spend so much time on this file.

3:07:22And I'd spend so much time saying,

3:07:24oh, but it's not Arlene.

3:07:26So I think this is that compromise right in the middle.

3:07:28So let's find a way to express some of the things

3:07:31that are happening within Guelph

3:07:33so that that message can be carried collectively

3:07:35from here to county council.

3:07:37And then of course, backwards to council here as well.

3:07:40So the other, the non four of you are also getting informed.

3:07:43Well, what were the four up to?

3:07:44So that we've got to find some ways

3:07:46to deliver some of that back and forth.

3:07:49And it perhaps might not be perfect on day one.

3:07:53So let's not let perfection get in the way

3:07:55of proceeding with this.

3:07:56That would be my advice.

3:07:58Staff and wise, we're all on board for this to work,

3:08:01but we're not quite sure how it will completely work.

3:08:04And then it will be set up in the county

3:08:06of Wellington's chambers.

3:08:08So because they'll be the chairs,

3:08:10and this chair and vice chair initially

3:08:12will follow their rules.

3:08:14And if, when, if and when we get to that,

3:08:16we would be the chair and vice chair,

3:08:17we would follow the rules here.

3:08:19So that's why there'll be lots of coordination

3:08:21behind the scene with Mr. O'Brien and,

3:08:23and Steve and I forget Jen's last name,

3:08:25so I'll just Jen over at the county.

3:08:28And so again, perhaps not perfection,

3:08:30perhaps it'll be slightly different,

3:08:33but I think this is exactly what you asked for

3:08:35in the initial recommendation.

3:08:36So with that, Mr. Mayor, I'll place it back in your hands.

3:08:40Thanks for the presentation.

3:08:41Scott, appreciate it and all the staff

3:08:43that have been working on this to bring this forward.

3:08:46Let me just, first of all,

3:08:48see if I could just get a member of council

3:08:50to lay the recommendations in front of us.

3:08:52Okay, thank you, Councillor Goller and Clawson.

3:08:54Thank you.

3:08:56And now, is there any questions before I go to the,

3:09:02is there any questions at all before I look to any votes?

3:09:05So Gowler, go ahead.

3:09:08And then Karan, after you.

3:09:10Thank you, through you, Mayor Goller.

3:09:14First of all, thank you for all the work

3:09:16that you have been doing in partnership with the county

3:09:19to get us here.

3:09:20I just wanted a bit of clarity on that last thing

3:09:24that you said, if I understand,

3:09:26when it is the county that is the chair,

3:09:28it will be held at the county.

3:09:30And then when it is the city council that is chairing,

3:09:33the meetings will be held here

3:09:34at Gualt council chambers, is that right?

3:09:37So through you, Mr. Mayor,

3:09:39that's the initial discussion

3:09:40with both Ward and Lennox and the CAO Wilson.

3:09:44We weren't sure if this will be a forever thing

3:09:46that the county hosts.

3:09:49So don't forget also the social services part.

3:09:52We've been very interested in the housing component.

3:09:55It is so much more than that as well.

3:09:58So it may stay there.

3:09:59So really my message will be,

3:10:02if they're the hosts, it's their rules.

3:10:04If we're the hosts, it would be our rules.

3:10:06So the four members may have to adjust to,

3:10:08oh, that's not how we do it,

3:10:10to, oh, that's how we're going to do it,

3:10:12when it's there and then vice versa as well.

3:10:14So that might be something that the committee

3:10:16talks about over time,

3:10:18but initially this year the county's the host.

3:10:21So it will be the county procedural by-law

3:10:23and please don't ask me anything about their procedural by-law

3:10:26because I have no clue.

3:10:28Thank you.

3:10:29Thank you for that.

3:10:30That makes sense.

3:10:31My other question was around the decision

3:10:34to appoint the committee of the whole chairs

3:10:38rather than what we do for police or public health

3:10:43or library where we just appoint.

3:10:45So if you can, it seems to me like it's a bit of a departure

3:10:49from how we usually appoint people to committees or boards.

3:10:53So I could understand a bit of the rationale

3:10:55why we're not using the same approach that we do for,

3:10:58say the police board or those other external boards.

3:11:03So through you, Mr. Mayor,

3:11:05there's no more logic than we wanted to do better

3:11:07than sort of putting our thumb up in the air

3:11:10and guessing at it.

3:11:10And we weren't sure people's interest

3:11:12in really picking the chairs the way we have.

3:11:14We didn't ask any of those chairs, are you interested?

3:11:17We just made an assumption.

3:11:19So if you can imagine the chair of public services,

3:11:22there's the interaction.

3:11:23There's, and both what IDE as well,

3:11:25there's the connection to the Elliott,

3:11:28you know, with the long-term care

3:11:30and that's an important piece that comes in.

3:11:32There's been a component of this might then implicate

3:11:35some things in the by-law area.

3:11:37So if you think of public services

3:11:38and the last time we met and spent 12 hours,

3:11:41what shop that might be in.

3:11:43IDE, we went to, also,

3:11:46that's the pickup of facilities and energy.

3:11:48That's the other group that comes into play.

3:11:50And then we went to governance

3:11:52because this felt like a bit of a governance issue

3:11:54and then the mayor was there already.

3:11:55So we went to, well, then the vice chair.

3:11:59But as I said in the presentation,

3:12:01if you want to change that, by all means do that,

3:12:04this wasn't a must-have.

3:12:06It was just from a staff perspective

3:12:08of putting something in front of you

3:12:09to you for you to react to.

3:12:11We just, I didn't know how to do it

3:12:14so that I, well, why did you pick Councillor Goller?

3:12:17Well, he loves bull ties, so do I.

3:12:19So we needed something.

3:12:20And that's all it is, Councillor Goller.

3:12:22So if there's another way to do it, Council,

3:12:24we are putty in your hands.

3:12:26This is just to give you an opportunity to say yes,

3:12:30if it feels like let's just get on with it

3:12:31and we can come back to that another time

3:12:33or deal with it this evening.

3:12:36Thank you very much.

3:12:37I think that makes sense.

3:12:38And I think that's sort of what we do

3:12:40for the management committee for the Elliot, right?

3:12:42It's the chairs that, if I could ask through you,

3:12:46Mayor Guthrie to our clerk,

3:12:50once this decision is approved tonight,

3:12:52what would it look like for Council

3:12:54to reconsider the composition at a later date?

3:13:00Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Goller.

3:13:03My response to this is probably a couple of opportunities

3:13:04for things to come back.

3:13:06I think naturally there'll be an evaluation.

3:13:07I would imagine through the CAOs,

3:13:10along with the Mayor and the warden,

3:13:12after this has been sort of in place for some time

3:13:14to make sure that it's still serving the purpose

3:13:16and the wish and the intent of both councils.

3:13:19But it could be a reconsideration

3:13:21if there was a time that was warranted to do that earlier.

3:13:24So there'll probably be some natural junctures

3:13:26at which you can make that consideration

3:13:28or you could do it yourself and enact that change

3:13:30through a formal reconsideration,

3:13:32if that's what you chose.

3:13:33Okay.

3:13:34Thank you for that.

3:13:36I'm very happy.

3:13:38Look forward to supporting this vote.

3:13:40Thank you, Worship.

3:13:42Thanks, Councillor Goller.

3:13:43Karan, please.

3:13:45Great, thank you.

3:13:45And this is more a question of clarity.

3:13:48And I think I know the answer.

3:13:50And if it's out of order

3:13:54and it's not related to the recommendations,

3:13:56please let me know because the recommendations here tonight

3:13:58are all about the governance

3:13:59and going back to the Joint Social Services

3:14:02Land Ambulance Committee.

3:14:04But our fire often report,

3:14:08respond to medical calls.

3:14:11There's no jurisdiction with this committee

3:14:15on the response of a non-land ambulance department.

3:14:22When those calls, when fire responds to EMS calls,

3:14:27this committee won't have anything to do

3:14:29with that jurisdictional city versus

3:14:34county department.

3:14:36Through you, Mr. Mayor, this committee-

3:14:38That question makes sense.

3:14:39Yes, it does.

3:14:40They won't have ambulances in the title.

3:14:42It should reflect the EMS, but it says ambulance.

3:14:45That's quite clear and fire won't be drawn

3:14:49into any of this discussion at all.

3:14:51And one of the things that you'll see

3:14:53from a staff support perspective is DCEO, Clark Bush,

3:14:56which fire reports up its in Collins and their portfolio.

3:14:59But there shouldn't be any discussion there

3:15:01at that committee over this.

3:15:05That's just you are serving the county for EMS.

3:15:09That's the discussion to have.

3:15:11Sometimes there might be overlap at some incident somewhere,

3:15:16but they shouldn't be having any conversations

3:15:18about wildfire no more than you should be having

3:15:21at that committee conversations

3:15:22about a volunteer fire department in Rockwood

3:15:26or Drayton if I've got them wrong.

3:15:29So I think it's quite clear,

3:15:31Councillor Caron and you're bang on.

3:15:34Thank you.

3:15:35Thank you and a question from Councillor Allt, please.

3:15:40I hope you can hear me okay.

3:15:41It's a question of course.

3:15:43As I'm listening and I appreciate Mr. Stewart's

3:15:48summary of what the intent is,

3:15:50it struck me that there is the potential in the future

3:15:54for us to consider revising, modifying,

3:15:58and perhaps doing away with some

3:16:01of our current standing committees

3:16:03and the way we structure our business

3:16:06at city specific committees.

3:16:08And that even includes the big ones

3:16:10where the chairs are coming from.

3:16:11I was wondering if clerks could perhaps respond to that

3:16:15and perhaps say whether they've considered that need.

3:16:19It strikes me there's going to be some overlap

3:16:21that is going to require the chairs

3:16:24to be doing double business.

3:16:29Through you Mayor Guthrie to Councillor Allt.

3:16:32I'm going to think I've got the question

3:16:34that you posed correctly.

3:16:35You're asking if there's any specific change

3:16:37that may be coming to our own government structures

3:16:39as a result of this adoption, is that correct?

3:16:41Okay.

3:16:43We had considered reviewing the committee

3:16:45the whole terms of reference in and around public services.

3:16:48But realistically this terms of reference

3:16:53that's before you that's being asked

3:16:54for endorsement of council effectively

3:16:58addresses some of those things.

3:16:59And the committee the whole terms of reference,

3:17:03the details in the public services section

3:17:05is relatively light in terms of those details.

3:17:09So we didn't feel there was a drastic need

3:17:11to update that committee the whole terms of reference.

3:17:14That may be the case if we were for example

3:17:17required to host because then our procedural rules

3:17:20would come into effect if we were hosting.

3:17:22But to CAO Stewards comments,

3:17:24it's been agreed upon with the county

3:17:26that they would be hosting unless of course

3:17:28this committee or discussions with the county in Sioux

3:17:31that would see that change.

3:17:32So at this point, no governance changes needed

3:17:35on the part of city around the documentation

3:17:37that you maintain terms of reference, et cetera

3:17:40is required to enact this committee.

3:17:44I hope that answers the question.

3:17:45I wanna make sure that I've done that.

3:17:46Yes.

3:17:47Yes, thank you.

3:17:49I do expect we might have to at some point in the future

3:17:52but that's for the future.

3:17:53The other comment that I think is very important

3:17:56is to appreciate that the most important element of this

3:18:00is still controlled by the city

3:18:03when it comes to ambulance services

3:18:05and the county when it comes to social services and housing

3:18:09and that's going to be something that will require the chairs

3:18:12to really put their best hat on when they think about

3:18:16how to address the challenges of these various areas.

3:18:20Yeah, and through you, Mr. Mayor,

3:18:21if I can just confirm that for council

3:18:25and actually as you'll see in the report,

3:18:26the county is still the CMSM policy matters

3:18:29related to things like housing, childcare, Ontario works,

3:18:34we'll all go through county council

3:18:36in the same way here at city council

3:18:38that as the delivery agent for land ambulance services,

3:18:41those services and policy matters,

3:18:43operational reporting, budget decisions, et cetera,

3:18:46those final decisions would come

3:18:47and flow through city council.

3:18:50Thank you.

3:18:54Great, thank you.

3:18:55Are there any other questions before I continue?

3:18:58Okay.

3:18:59So how about we just do this one at a time?

3:19:09Not my easiest, okay?

3:19:12So I'm going to call the vote on number one,

3:19:14which is that we're endorsing the joint services

3:19:16and land ambulance committee terms of reference,

3:19:18including any attachment dated for February 27th, 2024.

3:19:23We'll just do that one first,

3:19:24then we'll go on to the second one and third.

3:19:26So is there anyone against that?

3:19:29Nobody, unanimous, perfect.

3:19:33Okay, the second one is that the mayor,

3:19:35the service area chairs of public service

3:19:37and infrastructure development environment

3:19:39and the service area vice chair of governance

3:19:41be appointed to the joint social services

3:19:43and land ambulance committee

3:19:45as described in the report dated February 27th, 2024.

3:19:49Let me just ask if there's a point of contention with that

3:19:52or disagreement, does anyone disagree with that?

3:19:55And then I'll have to stop.

3:19:57No, okay.

3:19:58So I'm going to call the vote on that.

3:20:01Is there anyone against that?

3:20:04No.

3:20:05Okay, that's unanimous.

3:20:07And then number three is we got to look to appoint someone

3:20:11to the joint services and land ambulance committee,

3:20:14chair, vice chair.

3:20:15Now I want to be clear on something here

3:20:18just so that we're clear.

3:20:20And I want to make sure that Scott Stewart

3:20:22and you guys and clerks are making sure

3:20:25that I'm saying this right.

3:20:27We're not here today right now to appoint a chair

3:20:31and to then appoint a vice chair.

3:20:35We're here to appoint a chair, let's say a representative.

3:20:38That's probably the better word to use of this council.

3:20:42And then the county will appoint one of their representatives

3:20:47and then at the first joint committee meeting,

3:20:50that committee will then determine

3:20:52who the chair and vice chair is.

3:20:55So the way it was sort of written in the report

3:20:56was kind of like we're going to appoint a chair

3:20:58and a vice chair today.

3:21:00But for clarity reasons,

3:21:02we're appointing somebody to be that representative.

3:21:06And then that somebody will be determined by the joint committee,

3:21:09whether that person is chair or vice chair,

3:21:12when we get there.

3:21:13Clerks, am I saying that right?

3:21:14Yes, Mr. Mayor and through the rest of council,

3:21:17you're correct.

3:21:17Okay.

3:21:18To be chairs slash vice chairs,

3:21:20one by each council appointed respectively.

3:21:22That's right.

3:21:23The county chair would assume the chair responsibilities

3:21:27from April one to November 30th.

3:21:30Yeah.

3:21:30And then there would be the opportunity to rotate and switch.

3:21:33That's right.

3:21:34And that's, yes, as you said.

3:21:36So one from each member, one from each council, sorry.

3:21:39Yeah, that's right.

3:21:40Okay.

3:21:42So I think just as, if you don't mind me just jumping in here

3:21:47as the mayor, as I would like to just give my opinion,

3:21:53to my colleagues, first of all,

3:21:56up to council here for sure.

3:21:58But I would feel very comfortable with councillor Busuttil

3:22:03being the representative, if I could say that,

3:22:07at this new committee.

3:22:10I would just say that she has been,

3:22:12I think every single one basically,

3:22:14since this term has started.

3:22:17And she's got a really keen interest in this.

3:22:21She's created relationships too,

3:22:23which I think are important.

3:22:24I mean, this whole thing is really to me about relationships.

3:22:28So, I, you know, I looked, I can't do it

3:22:31because I'm the chair, but I would look,

3:22:33maybe I know Erin, I'm sorry,

3:22:34councillor Caton mentioned that she might want

3:22:38to do a nomination here.

3:22:40I will definitely follow suit to open it up the floor

3:22:44if there's others that are interested.

3:22:46But I just, you know, I just wanted to just give you

3:22:49my opinion on that.

3:22:50And I'm happy to support,

3:22:53support whatever council decides.

3:22:55But councillor Caton, did you have a,

3:22:58would you like to nominate somebody?

3:22:59Yeah, I was going to nominate councillor Busuttil for sure.

3:23:04Thank you.

3:23:05Is there a seconder?

3:23:06Councillor Goller would be willing to second.

3:23:09So let me just do sort of the formal process here.

3:23:12First of all, councillor Busuttil,

3:23:14would you allow your name to stand?

3:23:18Mayor.

3:23:19You're welcome.

3:23:20I'm going to say everything you wrote out for me.

3:23:21So everything's bird.

3:23:22I'm just kidding.

3:23:24Little levity there.

3:23:25All right.

3:23:26And then is there anybody else that wants to consider

3:23:30putting their name forward for as the representative

3:23:32from this council?

3:23:34No.

3:23:35All right, that's perfect.

3:23:36That works out really well.

3:23:37So with that, if everyone's okay,

3:23:40I will call the vote then as councillor Busuttil

3:23:44being the chair slash vice chair,

3:23:46depending on how it goes.

3:23:48And it's up on the screen here for everybody

3:23:51that councillor Busuttil be appointed

3:23:53as the joint social services

3:23:55and then ambulance committee chair, vice chair

3:23:56for a term ending November 30th, 2024,

3:23:59or until such time as our successor is appointed.

3:24:02So I'll look to call the vote.

3:24:04Is anyone against Linda?

3:24:07No, is anyone against councillor Busuttil?

3:24:10Nobody.

3:24:11Perfect.