5 Queen Street – Notice of Intention to Designate – 2025 – 240 be deferred to permit continued consultation with the property owner on the crafting…

1:40:54We have one delegation, which is Meg Thornburn.

1:40:57This Meg here.

1:40:58Hello.

1:41:18Hi Meg.

1:41:19How are you?

1:41:20Good.

1:41:21Good.

1:41:21Thank you very much for waiting and welcome.

1:41:24And you have, so this is a bit different now.

1:41:26You have up to five minutes, not the 10.

1:41:28Okay.

1:41:29So you'll hear a chime at the four minutes and 30 second mark giving you the 32nd warning.

1:41:33So don't get there because your mic gets turned off.

1:41:35Okay.

1:41:36And not at four 30 at five.

1:41:37No, at five.

1:41:38At five.

1:41:38Yeah.

1:41:39And then, and then just stick around just in case any of my colleagues or myself have a question for you when you're done.

1:41:44Okay.

1:41:44So the timer will start whenever you're ready.

1:41:46Go right ahead.

1:41:48Mr. Mayor and Chancellor's, thank you for this opportunity to speak.

1:41:51I hope you have found time to read the letter I submitted.

1:41:55My husband and I do not support this unsolicited designation of our home.

1:41:59However, we do strongly support heritage.

1:42:02As anyone aware of the meticulous work we have done to restore our previously derelict home will know we have devoted ourselves to the restoration project.

1:42:10We call home, but due to budgetary constraints and our high standards, we have done almost all of the thousands of hours of work ourselves.

1:42:19And it's still going on.

1:42:21You should know we have collaborated with heritage glove previously.

1:42:24And staff has commended us on the extensive careful and thoughtful work we have undertaken as stewards of this property.

1:42:32So frankly, it was a shock to receive the unsolicited designation letter and the extremely tight timeframe it forced upon us.

1:42:39We are definitely not an at risk property.

1:42:42We had no warning, no prior opportunity to consult, discuss or negotiate.

1:42:47The process has been rushed and staff has not provided us with important information.

1:42:51We were not notified in time to delegate at heritage Guelph.

1:42:55We were not informed that we would be subjected to the enhanced property bylaw standards.

1:42:59Staff did not offer to consult us on the heritage elements to be named in the proposed designation, which has been done for other property.

1:43:07Staff did not have some inform us that we have the right to contest the intention to designate or to appeal to council if it votes to issue the notice.

1:43:15Nor did they ever ask us if we supported or opposed the proposed designation.

1:43:20Staff did not suggest that we consult with our insurance company.

1:43:23We decided on our own that we should.

1:43:26The agent said, and I quote, we do not ensure individually designated heritage properties and further explain that the company makes no exceptions.

1:43:35You may argue that this is wrong or shouldn't happen, but for us, it is a fact.

1:43:41My husband and I have full time commitments and have been forced to figure out heritage designation with little free time.

1:43:46We were given a few weeks to understand what this designation process entails and to repair our response.

1:43:52Meanwhile, staff has had years to educate the public about designation and reach out to heritage homeowners, but haven't done so.

1:43:59Yes, we understand the time pressure of bill 23, but it does not justify this hasty autocratic process.

1:44:05In staff's letter, they suggest that we contact them about the benefits of designation. So we did.

1:44:11They admitted that, in fact, there are none other than a plaque.

1:44:15How is that possible when many other municipalities in southern Ontario offer incentives to the owners of designated properties, such as property tax breaks and home restoration improvement grants?

1:44:25Why has this not been a priority for heritage staff?

1:44:28For responsible, dedicated and long term homeowners, heritage designations can add unnecessary oversight delays and expense.

1:44:37Add to that no incentives and it's very clear why there has been little uptake of voluntary designation.

1:44:44We also feel that the selection process for this forced designation has possibly been inequitable or just not transparent.

1:44:50Staff prepared a list of 50 properties for 2024 Part 4 designation priorities, which was reiterated in the 2025 designation strategy.

1:44:59Our home was not on the 2024 list, but three well appointed and restored properties further up Queen Street were.

1:45:06These properties have not been brought forward for designation, even though staff has had a year longer to do so.

1:45:12Have they received non voluntary designation letters? If not, why not? And if yes, why have we been moved ahead of them?

1:45:18We are not arguing that our home does not qualify for designation. It does.

1:45:24And indeed, we considers ourselves merely the current curators of the special home and understand staff's concern that possible future owners in spite of our efforts may not share our values.

1:45:35But that can be said of any heritage property. Why rush to designate us ahead of at risk properties and properties whose restorations are complete.

1:45:44We have clearly demonstrated our commitment and dedication to restoring and maintaining our home true to its heritage.

1:45:51And we have no intention to sell the house in the next 15 years.

1:45:55But we are not finished with the restoration we so painstakingly began 30 years ago.

1:46:01And we do not want our progress to be hindered by increased paperwork delays oversight people with probably less hands on experience than us and possibly increased expenses.

1:46:13Does the city not want to see our work completed?

1:46:17There are proven flaws and possible inequities in this process in the process we have experienced after discussion with our lawyer. We propose this.

1:46:26Pause our designation and give us time to finish our restoration.

1:46:31This will give staff time to come up with incentives for dedicated property owners like ourselves.

1:46:35We would then be happy to voluntarily designate our home provided we can find insurance until then improve the process and please focus on the at risk and fully restored properties. Thank you.

1:46:49Wow, that was perfect timing. So well done. Thank you very much for your delegation. Let me see if I have a follow up.

1:46:57I'll start with Karan and then Gowler. I see several hands. I'll just start with Karan and Gowler. I'll start a list. Go ahead.

1:47:04Great. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. And thank you for your delegation.

1:47:08I also want to recognize the incredible work that you and Lorenz have done over the past three decades.

1:47:13In my notes, I put two decades. It has been three decades and I remember some of that work when I was, when I was chairing Heritage Gualt before I was a city councillor.

1:47:22So it is truly remarkable the care and attention to detail that you've given to your property. So I do want to acknowledge that that publicly.

1:47:30I do have a few questions though, because you did mention in your delegation that Guelph, you know, does not provide benefits to designated properties like other communities do. And I just wondered if you had some examples of what those benefits might be.

1:47:46Yes, I actually have a list because I was hoping somebody would ask that. I mean, it's a very extensive list, but just as a few examples, I think the one people look to most is Peterborough, which has a heritage property tax relief program of 40%, which is the maximum allowed by the province.

1:48:02And they've been doing this for decades and it's been very, very, very successful in enticing home owners to voluntarily designate their properties.

1:48:12So much so that there's been a couple of academic papers done on it to then look at the spin off benefits to the community of Peterborough due to all these voluntary heritage designations.

1:48:24Neighboring communities, Kitchener has a heritage grant property grant program for conservation, restoration and reconstruction.

1:48:33Provides access to the Waterloo Regional Heritage Foundation grant and does provide tax refunds up to 40%. Hamilton has heritage property tax rebate of 40% and heritage property grant for conservation in Toronto.

1:48:46And restoration reading it. Toronto has a similarly heritage grant program, heritage tax rebate program.

1:48:53Owens Sound also has a heritage property tax relief program and facade and structure grant program. Waterloo, Niagara on the lake, Collingwood also have these kinds of programs, tax rebates and or improvement grants.

1:49:09And I think you need to know in future discussions that few municipalities that provide tax relief relief, it's for the municipal and education portion, but the province funds the educational portion of that problem, property tax relief.

1:49:24Yeah, thanks. That's a comprehensive list. I know Guelph is an outlier in not having that program and we do have it in our in our cultural heritage asset plan, our CHAP, we call it that recommendation was cast by council and lots of reasons why that work has been stalled, but we do have that in the future planning.

1:49:48The other thing you outlined a lot in your presentation is just concerns with with process. What do you feel would need to be different about the process for you to voluntarily designate your home?

1:50:02So a couple things, both improving the process and then what we specifically think that we need. You know, for process, I found the process really disturbing.

1:50:18First off, don't drop the bombshell on on homers, homeowners out of the blue. I mean, we work with them with plenty of lead time.

1:50:28And, you know, give them a chance to negotiate the designate elements. Could we have done that staff never told us.

1:50:34What we got from staff was to contact them if we had any questions, but it's taken us with minimal free time the entire few weeks we've been allowed to even figure out what questions to ask.

1:50:45We I mean, we don't know what we didn't know we didn't give homeowners time to thoroughly understand the applications.

1:50:54And then give them a list of insurance providers and times will work that out.

1:51:02You know, I think the whole process could have been much more transparent and proactive.

1:51:11One thing I found in my research is that many municipalities have developed comprehensive guides to heritage designation for property owners in the municipality on sound as a really nice one.

1:51:20And there were a couple others that I'm not going to recall now that that were very impressive.

1:51:26So those are my general statements about the process. I guess I'd also see, you know, in with the time pranks that priorities given to more at risk properties, and then secondarily properties that aren't in the midst of restoration.

1:51:43So for us personally, as I say, we are quite interested in voluntarily designating down the road.

1:51:52We would want to finish our restorations first.

1:51:56We would like to sit the city to offer some incentives for this.

1:52:02We need to be sure that we can secure new property insurance that we can afford. I'm pretty sure it's out there, but it could take weeks and months to figure that out.

1:52:13And then I just it needs to be more collaborative like why didn't staff talk to us before they wrote the letter, you know, and, and I mean, we're not designation experts. So we didn't even know what questions to ask when we got the letter.

1:52:25I need to feel that this is to trans that there will be a transparent and streamlined permitting process. I don't know much about that.

1:52:38And personally, I need some time to pass to feel comfortable and that the new enhanced property standard by bylaws are and well be applied fairly and within their awareness that some heritage homeowners have budgetary restrictions.

1:52:56Thanks.

1:52:57Two more quick kind of interrelated questions. I feel indulge me, Mr.

1:53:03Like, not yet.

1:53:05Sorry.

1:53:06Yeah.

1:53:08Hopefully this will be a.

1:53:10No, no, not going there. Don't worry. No.

1:53:13It was just to the delegate and just about this property.

1:53:16So notwithstanding everything you've you've said and everything that's in your letter.

1:53:21Do you agree that five Queen Street meets the criteria for part four designation under the yes, I certainly, I certainly wouldn't deny that that so timing is a huge.

1:53:31It's the timing distribution.

1:53:33You know, I wish that there was some way I could sign a letter that was legally binding that I well designated in 10 years.

1:53:41But I don't think there's that.

1:53:42Bill 23, the doors closing. What I know that you see as timing. What do you see as the appropriate timing to bring this back for designation?

1:53:51Well, you finish all of your restorations before bill 23 closes the door on heritage protections for registered properties.

1:53:58I doubt it.

1:54:00But two things.

1:54:02Because again, I'm not an expert.

1:54:04About them next to me.

1:54:06My understanding that for sort of non voluntary designation that can be brought back five years after.

1:54:17The closing of that door.

1:54:19So that's 2032.

1:54:23And I believe that they're not closing the door on voluntary designation.

1:54:29Ever.

1:54:31Right. So, so, you know,

1:54:34My husband has been promising me for.

1:54:3710 years, we would finish the restoration this year.

1:54:42Yeah.

1:54:46But as I say, you know, I, I, I wish I had brought a slideshow of the work. I wish I had brought a slideshow of the work.

1:54:56I mean, there was one summer when we hired his brother and friend who's a teacher and we took it was the summer we dismantled the porch because it was completely rotten when we bought it and it took us, you know, there's more pressing projects, but we finally got around to it.

1:55:12We took the porch off.

1:55:14And, and then there's all sorts of parts were, of course, restoring from that porch.

1:55:19And a lot of them had to be fixed. And then I had to figure out a place from Germany where I could get a blaster heat blaster where I could strip the paint off all the little details that we still have stacked aside to put back up.

1:55:30But so there's no porch. So we start scaffolding because the house hadn't been repointed for a long, long time. And it was way past the point of repointing like it was just sand between between the rocks.

1:55:46Or the stones. And then you have to find this proper quarry to get the proper stones. And so for an entire summer we had scaffolding up the whole side of the house and would move around as we as as they replace the stones and and found the heritage mortar to put it all back together.

1:56:11And so at the time we had a hole in the property that was really bigger than me and Lorenz assured me that that's a large enough, you know, the stones, the rest of the stones could hold it up but it's, it's a slow process.

1:56:25Okay, so the timing is unknown. So, okay, thank you very much.

1:56:30Thank you.

1:56:33So, thank you for your time and making sure we can kind of get through this to to some kind of resolution. Okay, I've got quite a few people here go lower than alt, then gloss and then downer.

1:56:45So, please just get right to the questions. Okay, thank you.

1:56:48Thank you through worship. Thank you for your presentation.

1:56:52You mentioned that I think you had concerns with the enhanced property standards by law.

1:56:57When I asked staff about it, they let me know that they would only be enforcing buildings that are left completely derelict. So can you help me explain your concerns with the by law.

1:57:06Well, the by law was only passed a year ago, the enhanced by law. So we have yet to see how it will be used really.

1:57:14I, I'm sure that current staff have good intentions to use it judiciously to guard against neglect. I trust them, but staff do turn over and who knows what personalities will be in power in the future.

1:57:27Because it is the by law, not the intention of the by law that ultimately rules. And this by law has strict and costly requirements about replacing or repairing heritage elements, which is nearly everything in our house.

1:57:41Okay, that is helpful. Thank you so much. I have a follow up question your worship.

1:57:46You had also mentioned concerns with the increased time and restoration, if it were to be designated. Could you help me understand why it would take more if it was designated to do the restoration work.

1:57:58Yeah, so part for designated properties require a heritage permit. If a renovation affects the named heritage elements, which seems to be almost everything on our house.

1:58:11Even if those rentals wouldn't normally require building permit. So when you're in the midst of a long term restoration that the paperwork increased paperwork alone would be quite time consuming.

1:58:23And while I trust the heritage staff will process such permits.

1:58:27Relatively quickly, some of them may require consultation with heritages, Guelph, which meets and frequently as well as the manager of building and planning services and even counsel sometimes.

1:58:38And we're also just worried again, you know, we've been thrown into this line. We're a little concerned about restrictions and increased policing. So I was watching the heritage wealth meeting that I didn't get to designate that.

1:58:52And one of the things Jack Malone said in the discussion about Alan's mill bridge is that mechanistically the purpose of heritage designation is to compel property owners to do certain things with their property.

1:59:04Now, I think this was used as a justification to not designate Alan's mill bridge.

1:59:11But that statement just sounds extremely intimidated to regular property owners, you know, what are we getting into.

1:59:18And I really appreciate it. Thank you so much for your presentation on from your letters. Thank you, worship. Thank you all to then Cossin.

1:59:26Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor through you to the delegate. Miss Thorburn. I do want to thank you very much for your presentation. I've actually learned more in the last 15 minutes about heritage designation and I probably have learned in all of my life.

1:59:43But that leads to a number of other questions.

1:59:47Just because you have talked about yourselves as current curators and your restoration not being complete. And I don't know if you can answer this or not. But what do you need to do?

2:00:00There is, I wish Lorenz was here for that, but there's still quite a bit of work on the porch at the main structure is up, but you know, there's all the the knickknacks he hasn't finished the wiring.

2:00:19Yeah, he would have to answer that, but I think there's probably a lot of painting to do.

2:00:26There's gutters to put up all sorts of things. Heritage designation at this point would constrain those efforts.

2:00:34Well, the gutters, for instance, require a permit.

2:00:39So I know I suspect they would get done, but I wish Lorenz was here to answer this. He's concerned because he's the one who's building everything.

2:00:48Okay, I'm going to switch gears to incentives were raised through questions and answers with Councillor Caron.

2:00:58And from what I've heard you said, I think you've been working on this for 30 years.

2:01:03Are you asking for incentives? Is that what you're looking for? Or are you just frustrated that you're not finding what you need?

2:01:13I think it would really help.

2:01:18But heritage owners get on board if there were incentives, it would not be an absolute reason for us not to not to designate.

2:01:29But it is surprising that there aren't any incentives and it would be much more palatable if if there were.

2:01:38Okay, I have two last questions. You'd made reference to insurance providers and respecting respectfully possibly a list of insurance providers.

2:01:49That leads me to a question. My house is not on the heritage list, but it is a very old house and I was refused insurance because it's too old.

2:01:59I was wondering, like you were refused. Are there other people that you are aware of who are very clearly being refused or being told that something will happen to their insurance?

2:02:09I have certainly read a number of sort of case reports about that. I don't personally.

2:02:17I don't kind of don't have a Facebook. We've been designated group to ask that question to.

2:02:24But I've certainly, it's very conflicting information when you go on the web.

2:02:31But there are certainly, you know, I recently read an article in Cabbage Town, which is actually a designated district.

2:02:39So it's not even type four. It's type five designation, which is quite a bit more lenient that a number of the homeowners in the Cabbage Town have suddenly had their insurance.

2:02:53Just to follow up to that. And then one last question on Ontario dot C a statement is made with regards to property insurance premiums.

2:03:01Insurance premiums should not go up because of a heritage designation. I'm wrestling with that because it says it should not go up.

2:03:10Are you aware of insurance premiums going up because of heritage designations?

2:03:17Again, all I could say is that our insurance provider explicitly stated to me that his company doesn't ensure heritage designated homes.

2:03:28And I'm asking why it's up to me to have to solve that problem. Why am I not being given a list of companies that well ensure heritage designation homes that are over 150 years old for reasonable premium.

2:03:49It was very difficult as you're finding for us to find insurer for our old house 30 years ago, even without heritage designation.

2:03:59So I just started to think how much time and effort. I'm really almost less worried about the cost of it than the time. I don't have a lot of time.

2:04:08And if we're forced to designate the property might not be insured for a period of time while we search for a new provider.

2:04:16Again, this force process has been very rushed. And had we not done our research and were we designated, we would suddenly normally had no insurance coverage.

2:04:25And then what, you know, how much does that protect a precious, you know, a designated property if it's uninsured.

2:04:34And certainly one thing I'd say is that most of us with homes like this can no longer afford full replacement coverage.

2:04:42That's an interesting point.

2:04:45Oh, yeah, no, that's that's that's a fact.

2:04:48Just just with regards to last question, somewhat unrelated, but as I said, I've learned an awful lot today.

2:04:55What should we as a city do to address your concerns regarding being informed being informed and learning about heritage designation?

2:05:03What would you like to see because sounds like you didn't receive notice in what you consider to be an appropriate time and so on?

2:05:11What more? What do you want from us?

2:05:13Well, I've heard of I would like to be able.

2:05:16Oh, sorry, I didn't I didn't hear the answer or maybe maybe you need to expand upon.

2:05:21I think Councillor Kerron, that was the first question out of Councillor Kerron's mouth.

2:05:24If I recall what you would like to see is it I believe you answered that question already. Do you need to repeat that for Councillor Alton?

2:05:30No, that's okay. Okay.

2:05:33And thank you very much for illuminating me.

2:05:38Great. Thank you.

2:05:39Councillor Klassen and then I have Downer.

2:05:44Yes, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor, to the delegate just thank you for for delegating today and actually Councillor Kerron answered my question.

2:05:53So I'm not going to further elaborate.

2:05:56Okay, thank you. Downer, please.

2:05:59Thank you. Thank you.

2:06:01So I you may not be able to answer this because you already referred to that.

2:06:05Lorenz would maybe be the best one, but there's eight items that are heritage attributes.

2:06:11So it's not everything that's that's designated at C's attributes in the report.

2:06:17They've listed the eight of them.

2:06:19What is the restoration that you have left to do because it's it sounds like you've done like the limestone exterior walls.

2:06:27I mean, the porch, you've got something to finish, but you're already talking to staff about that.

2:06:35The the central gable barge board, the hip roof and central gable. Are you planning to change all those things like that?

2:06:43So the rest of these are the things that are designated that that you would have to consult on.

2:06:49So I'm just trying to think like, is there really anything left in your restoration?

2:06:53That's not that's that's not already like that you're going to be doing these types of work and changing them drastically.

2:07:00I don't understand.

2:07:04Well, who were involved very involved when we made did the building permit was 10 years ago.

2:07:15And again, Lorenz does all of this work, but there is still some significant work left to do on the porch, as well as we have a window we're planning to turn into a door we've already started that process.

2:07:37You know, so the exterior walls are all in there and and there are, I mean, I can promise any changes we do.

2:07:49Well, well be true to heritage.

2:07:53And yet, but you've been consulting with heritage.

2:07:57We did have anyway, right. So, for all this work for the porch, for the porch, for the porch.

2:08:06But if you were turning a window into a door, you'd need a building permit anyway, and that would automatically trigger heritage review. Would it not not?

2:08:17You're not designated.

2:08:20Well, I think I think yes, I think even if you're not designated if you're turning a window into a door, you'd still need a permit.

2:08:27Oh, you need a building permit. Yes. But that doesn't involve her as well.

2:08:32I think it might if it was that might get wood. So, Jack's not going to say. Yeah, I think it would in that case, but anyway, okay.

2:08:41I'm not suggesting there's going to keep us from doing things, but I just think there's still going to be a lot of paperwork. And I don't.

2:08:50I understand about the bill, but I just don't understand the rush with our house. Okay. Thanks.

2:09:01Okay. Thank you, counselor downer.

2:09:05At this time I have nothing further. I'm just going to go to.

2:09:14Yeah, I would, I would think that this would be so they get the right to make it the recommendations at least thrown on the floor and then I can go to you counselor. If you want to do that.

2:09:24Yes. Oh, sorry.

2:09:27Yes. How are you? Yes, I am. Thank you very much. I'm so sorry. Thank you very much for staying with us and giving us your thoughts. We appreciate it.

2:09:39So, would someone be willing to just at least move the recommendations to designate as described in the busitil and does anybody else wants to.

2:09:48Yeah, thanks for on thank you, Um, is there any questions? We just need to ask a staff before anything further.

2:09:54Okay ga despair.

2:09:58Yes. For you. Mr Mayor to Jack, Um, this whole insurance issue, do we have insurance nor insurance companies that I mean we have a lot of designated properties in Gulen in Ontario.

2:10:15that, like what, can you just sort of elucidate this issue

2:10:19around insurance for us?

2:10:24Thank you, through the mayor to Councillor Downer.

2:10:28The issue with ensuring designated properties,

2:10:32it was an issue when I worked at the city of Ottawa.

2:10:35Since I've been working at the city of Gualph,

2:10:37I've only had one conversation with an owner

2:10:40of a designated property that has expressed

2:10:44problems with insurance.

2:10:47However, staff are currently working on compiling a list

2:10:51of insurance companies that may be friendly

2:10:54to designated properties.

2:10:56We can't know for certain,

2:10:58but we're working on creating resources for property owners

2:11:01that may be struggling with this.

2:11:07And are you, I don't know, that wasn't aware,

2:11:11but like you know the building fairly well,

2:11:14this list of heritage attributes are,

2:11:17well maybe you don't know this.

2:11:19I'm just wondering like, do you know,

2:11:20are they during restoration on those in your discussions

2:11:24with the applicant's spouse?

2:11:32I'm not aware of any ongoing discussions about these other

2:11:37discussions or renovations to any of the listed attributes

2:11:40where the attributes as listed.

2:11:42Okay.

2:11:43Well, aside from the ongoing work on the porch.

2:11:46Aside from the ongoing work on the porch.

2:11:50Okay, I think that was,

2:11:53my only question.

2:11:56Councillor Caron, please.

2:11:57Thank you.

2:11:58I want to follow up on the question of timing

2:12:02because I am torn.

2:12:04As you all know, I'm huge proponent of designation

2:12:07to protect our cultural heritage assets.

2:12:09I like our designations to be voluntary.

2:12:12That's always a better approach.

2:12:16If we were to defer this for say three to six months

2:12:21to allow the owner time to put insurance into place,

2:12:29though to kind of clear up some of the details

2:12:31that the timing has caused.

2:12:33Would staff have any concerns about a six month deferral

2:12:37to sort out some of the details?

2:12:44Through the mayor to the counselor,

2:12:46we would support deferral and continue to work

2:12:48with this applicant to address some of the concerns

2:12:50that were raised today and talk about the elements

2:12:52that were put forward.

2:12:54I think based on what we heard from the applicant

2:12:57or the property owner today,

2:12:58I don't think I'd prefer to put a timeline on it,

2:13:01but continue to work with them to support designation

2:13:05as we go forward.

2:13:06Okay.

2:13:08That's great.

2:13:09I'll compose something and get it to clerks

2:13:11because I do think we want to proceed with designation.

2:13:15We want it on the floor and we want emotion here tonight

2:13:17saying that we intend to designate this property.

2:13:20It absolutely meets the criteria.

2:13:22I think we all would like to see them placed

2:13:24before the window of bill 23 and losing the register happens.

2:13:29But I think it sends a good message to the community

2:13:31as we're working with property owners

2:13:33that we can have those discussions in the interim.

2:13:37So before I put a motion to defer,

2:13:42I would also like to ask a question

2:13:44about the timing of our heritage property tax relief program.

2:13:48I know we've been talking about it for probably two decades,

2:13:52ever since the Ontario Heritage Act was amended in 2004

2:13:56to allow tax relief programs.

2:13:58We've been talking about it in Guelph.

2:13:59It's part of our chat.

2:14:00There's already a motion on the floor.

2:14:02Do you need direction from council to modify a work plan

2:14:06or to get resources in place to bring it forward

2:14:08for the 2026 budget?

2:14:10If you'd like motion and direction from council,

2:14:13just let us know.

2:14:16So through the marriage to the counselor.

2:14:18So the motion that we have,

2:14:20it's tied right now to the word West Heritage District,

2:14:23which is coming up very shortly this evening.

2:14:26Yes.

2:14:27And so well, tonight's the boundary,

2:14:28but then as part of that,

2:14:30there would be a recommendation regarding incentives,

2:14:31but it would not be part of the 2026 budget.

2:14:36So if council wants to consider something in advance

2:14:38of the 2026 budget,

2:14:39you could do that at budget deliberation time,

2:14:43but it would not be that based on the timing

2:14:46of the word West,

2:14:47it would probably be for the consideration

2:14:49for the 2028 budget period.

2:14:51Okay. I'll work with staff on that,

2:14:53because I do think if you need resources to do that,

2:14:56it's a conversation we've had numerous times

2:14:58in the community.

2:14:59And considering the agenda tonight

2:15:01that we're ramping up our designation.

2:15:03So for the course of the next year,

2:15:05as we close that window on the expiry of the register,

2:15:09I think that property tax relief program

2:15:11will be highly desirable.

2:15:14So I'll work with staff on that.

2:15:15For tonight, I think I'd like to defer

2:15:17this notice of intent to designate,

2:15:19to allow time for staff to work with the property owner

2:15:22to sort out some of the details related to insurance

2:15:24and renovations that are currently underway.

2:15:27If there's a seconder, do you need a long?

2:15:29The councillor will second.

2:15:31Clerk, so do you want to raise that out

2:15:33or it's just a...

2:15:34They can handle that one.

2:15:38And as our staff said, there was no timeframe around it.

2:15:41We'll work with the property owner.

2:15:45So there's no debate and no further discussion

2:15:49once the deferral motion is tabled.

2:15:52So all the best to staff and to yourself.

2:15:55Thank you for coming here.

2:15:57If anyone against the deferral motion?

2:16:03Nobody, so that passes.

2:16:04So it's a deferred, okay?

2:16:06Do you understand?

2:16:07Yeah?

2:16:09Okay, you talked to them.

2:16:11It means we didn't make a decision.

2:16:13It means we deferred a decision

2:16:15so that you and staff can kind of work together

2:16:17over the next little while to figure out next steps, okay?

2:16:21Okay, perfect.

2:16:25We are on to...

2:16:28Oh yeah, the Horde West Heritage Conservation.

2:16:31You know what, we're gonna do a five minute break.

2:16:34Okay?

2:16:36Yeah, we'll be back here in five, six minutes, tops.

2:16:39Okay, thank you.

2:24:46Okay, this is a 30 second warning.

2:25:13All right, I'll call the meeting back to order here.

2:25:18Okay, we just have quorum.