Application from AGORA Research Group Inc. on behalf IJK Holdings Inc. for an Official Plan Amendment to redesignate a portion of the subject lands from Industrial… be received

56:56Public and Decision Meeting for 81 Royal Road, proposed Official Plan and Zoning Bylaw Amendment.

57:01Eric, you get to come right back up. And whenever you're ready, go right ahead.

57:08Excellent. Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

57:13The city has received an application for an Official Plan Amendment and Zoning Bylaw Amendment from Agora Research Group to redesignate and rezone the property known as 81 Royal Road to permit the development of a commercial building defined as an industrial supply outlet on a portion of the subject lands.

57:30The proposed commercial building will be located at the corner of Woodlion Road West and Royal Road.

57:35Today's meeting is a statutory public meeting as well as the decision meeting for the proposed application.

57:48I can't seem to move this forward. Thank you.

57:57The portion of the subject site that the proposed amendments would apply to has an area of approximately 1.2 hectares with 85 meters of frontage on Woodlion Road West and approximately 145 meters of frontage on Royal Road.

58:10The remaining 1.3 of the property would remain industrial with no amendments.

58:14The portion of the land subject to the proposed applications are currently vacant.

58:18Industrial land uses are located to the west, south, and east of the subject lands, including an access easement to 350 Woodlion Road West over a portion of the subject lands that are currently not subject of the application.

58:31You can see it in the area over there.

58:34Service commercial uses are located to the north of the subject lands across Woodlion Road West.

58:38The proposal would see the construction of a one-story commercial building located at the corner of Royal Road and Woodlion Road West, and the site would be accessed directly from Royal Road.

58:54Here you can see the concept plan showing the proposed development with Woodlion Road West located to the left-hand side of the screen and Royal Road located at the bottom of the screen.

59:05The subject property is currently designated industrial in the official plan.

59:11This land use designation is intended to accommodate a range of industrial uses, or industrial-related employment uses, so that would include manufacturing, repair and servicing operations, research and development, and warehousing uses.

59:24The industrial designation does not permit commercial uses like the proposed industrial supply outlet use.

59:30For this reason, a site-specific official plan amendment is requested to permit the proposed industrial supply outlet use on the industrial designated lands.

59:39For some further context, the subject site is located within Guelph's Northwest Industrial Park, a provincially designated employment area.

59:49You can see the subject lands outlined in red on the screen, with the surrounding land shaded in purple forming the remainder of the designated employment area.

1:00:00The subject lands are currently zone industrial B in the comprehensive zoning bylaw, and the proposed zoning application would change the zoning to B-18 industrial to facilitate the proposed development.

1:00:13The industrial B-18 zone would permit the proposed industrial supply outlet use, and additionally the applicant has requested two site-specific provisions.

1:00:26Firstly, to permit a principal entrance to be located towards the interior lot line of the property, and also to permit a minimum off-street parking rate of five spaces per 100 square meters of commercial floor area for the industrial supply outlet use.

1:00:41Staff's review of this application includes evaluation of the proposals conformity and consistency to the 2024 Provincial Planning Statement, evaluation of the proposals conformity with the official plan, review of the proposed zoning, review of the built form compatibility with adjacent and established land uses, and review of supporting documents submitted with the development application.

1:01:01As of this afternoon, no comments from the public have been received regarding the proposed application.

1:01:07As outlined in the staff report, staff have significant concerns about the proposed commercial use located within industrial lands.

1:01:14In staff's professional opinion, the proposed use in the designated employment area does not conform with the Provincial Planning Statement or official plan policy that requires the city to preserve employment lands for permitted employment uses.

1:01:27As such, staff recommend refusal of the proposed Official Plan Amendment and zoning bylaw amendment applications.

1:01:33Thank you, and I would be pleased to answer any questions Council may have.

1:01:39Thank you so much, Eric.

1:01:41Is there, you can feel free to have a seat if you want, we can engage with you from there.

1:01:47Is there, there's no delegations on this one, but I will just again allow anyone to call in, let's just see if there's anyone.

1:01:55And would you like to speak to it?

1:01:57Okay, come on up. We'll just do you first and then, and then I'll put the full number up and just feel free to state your name. If you don't mind for the record.

1:02:11Yeah, just give me a second here.

1:02:12Okay.

1:02:27Thank you, Mayor Guthrie and Council members.

1:02:29I just remember there'd be no more than 10 minutes. Okay.

1:02:32Right.

1:02:33So please, please go ahead state your name.

1:02:35Thank you.

1:02:36My name is Claudio Belbino from the Agora Research Group.

1:02:39We're land use planners and market analysts representing the registered owner of 81 Royal Road.

1:02:44Also joining me tonight is Brad Ireland, IJK Holding, the property owner, and my Matt Weiser, which is the project architect from the JCR architects.

1:02:56We have read the staff planning report and respectfully disagree with the recommendation.

1:03:01As I'm sure you're aware, the proposed tenant is Princess Auto.

1:03:05Princess Auto is a Canadian industrial supply outlet chain specializing in farm, industrial, garage, hydraulics, and surplus items.

1:03:14The outlet supplies components, spare parts, accessory and equipment that a company or industry needs, both for their own facilities, as well as tools and supplies for its production processes.

1:03:26Headquartered in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Princess Auto owns and operates 55 outlets in 10 provinces, along with three distribution centers in Canada.

1:03:35Princess Auto serves a customer base that is composed of contractors, mechanics, farmers, tradespeople, and industrial workers, total of approximately 20% of the outlet sales.

1:03:46That purchase tools and equipment for their shops and farms.

1:03:50It's a use that does not detract from and is compatible with the development and operation of industrial uses.

1:03:57Princess Auto is a unique retail commercial offering, as the majority of its customer base is non-retail.

1:04:04As mentioned, the sales split is 70% business oriented, while 30% is retail.

1:04:09And just to further define retail sales to make a distinction, Stats Canada defines retail purchases as purchases for home use or consumption.

1:04:17So in the case of Princess Auto, 70% of the sales are for non-home use.

1:04:21From a market and store location perspective, combined with its value proposition, Princess Auto seeks locations within employment zone clusters, versus being located in neighborhood, community, or regional shopping centers.

1:04:35Almost all of the Princess Auto company locations in Ontario are situated in employment land clusters and on busy arterials away from residential uses.

1:04:45Specifically, the proposal is to construct a one-story commercial building measuring 30,000 square feet on the northern portion of the site with appropriate setbacks, parking, and landscaping.

1:04:56The balance of the site, 40%, will remain undeveloped and will be dedicated to future existing industrial use zone uses.

1:05:04Supporting the proposal is a sign 25-year lease between the property owner and Princess Auto conditional upon receiving the appropriate municipal approvals.

1:05:14The site is situated within Guelph's Northwest Industrial Area Municipal Lands.

1:05:20The surrounding lands are mostly developed and can be generally described as predominantly industrial and service commercial uses.

1:05:27Based upon consulting studies, Northwest Industrial Park Employment Lands represent approximately 70% of the employment lands square footage in the Guelph Market.

1:05:37The Northwest Industrial Park is approximately 90% built out with some green field parcels remaining on the southwest and the northwest.

1:05:48Structural changes in the economy, such as increased demand for manufacturing, warehouse, data centers, cold storage facilities, and e-commerce distribution centers are changing the nature of employment areas in Ontario, including the built form and character.

1:06:04Most of these high value uses require large sites typically measuring at least 20 acres.

1:06:09The smaller sites, such as Royal Road, with less than five acres of land, are not viable for the emerging advanced industrial uses.

1:06:16In this case, a supportive use catering to employers and employees within the employment zone cluster appears to be a practical solution.

1:06:24The following section refers to the official plan policies.

1:06:28So the requested site specific official plan amendment and zoning bylaw amendment only apply to the northern portion of the state, which measures approximately 1.2 hectares.

1:06:38In terms of industrial uses, there is clearly a need for employment areas to provide a wide range of employment supported uses that serve the needs of employers and employees within the employment areas.

1:06:49In support of the industrial supply outlet, the following is a recommendation from the executive summary related to the employment land strategy shaping Guelph, the growth management strategy of November 27, 2020, which is used to create the new official plan.

1:07:05The recommendation is from page nine of the executive summary and states as follows.

1:07:10The intention of employment supportive uses in employment areas should be to serve the needs of employers and employees within the employment area, as opposed to the broader population.

1:07:19The recommendation further states that the city should continue to assess the provision for commercial community and institutional uses within employment areas on the degree to which the use supports and compliments employment uses within employment areas and does not a first adversely affect the stability of employment areas.

1:07:38Excuse me.

1:07:44There's not adversely impact other designated employment uses and is compatible with neighboring land uses. Furthermore, page four of the shaping Guelph employment land strategy staff report dated December 11, 2020 provides the following recommendation.

1:07:59There is a need for employment areas to provide for a wide range of amenities and employment supportive uses such as retail service and institutional uses to serve the needs of employers and employees within the employment areas as opposed to the broader population.

1:08:13The recommendation further states to provide clarity on the intent of these uses a maximum retail area should be considered.

1:08:21In terms of retail size the Guelph official plan states that the major retail uses are not permitted within employment areas. Employment lands include industrial corporate business park and institutional and research park.

1:08:33Major retail uses as defined by the official plan glossary states that retail uses that are greater than 35,000 square feet are permitted.

1:08:42The proposed industrial outland measuring 30,000 square feet is smaller than the 35,000 square feet threshold defined in the official plan.

1:08:51In terms of employment density targets.

1:08:55The industrial component of the employment lands official plan policy is projected to achieve a density target of 35 jobs per hectare.

1:09:02The total number of employees that are proposed to work in the industrial supply will be 55.

1:09:08The most money measured on the jobs per hectare metric will be 45 jobs per hectare which exceeds the policy requirement of 35.

1:09:17For comparison purposes if uses such as the warehouse and manufacturing were located on the site within the same building size they would generate far less than the 55 jobs that are being created.

1:09:32In terms of the provincial policy statement it states that the planning authorities may remove lands from employment areas under certain criteria.

1:09:41One of the key criteria is related to the municipality having sufficient employment lands to accommodate projected employment growth.

1:09:49In terms of surplus employment lands the staff report indicates that there were 35 surplus hectares of employment lands when the 2020 strategy report was completed.

1:09:58The approval of the Guelph Innovation District Secondary Plan re-designated 26 hectares of the employment lands to other uses.

1:10:06As a result the surplus of 35 hectares of employment lands has been reduced to a surplus of 9 hectares.

1:10:13As there are currently 9 surplus hectares of employment lands in Guelph the outlet development would marginally reduce that number to approximately 8 hectares.

1:10:24Now in terms of the requested site specific zoning bylaw amendment we notice that there is a concern related to parking.

1:10:33We understand that staff prefer a smaller ratio based upon a three spaces per 100 square meters.

1:10:39However we've contacted Princess Auto and they have provided traffic and parking analysis indicating that operationally the Princess Auto outlet requires five spaces per 100 meters squared.

1:10:50In fact none of their outlets have a ratio of less than 4.5.

1:10:55We're happy to share this information that with staff is required.

1:10:59So in summary the site is situated in a central location for use that supports employers and employees within the northwest industrial area of Guelph.

1:11:09The site is generally flat, does not contain any significant nature natural features and is part of a stable and mature industrial and commercial service area.

1:11:19The site will be connected to municipal services and is of the appropriate size to accommodate suitably designed industrial commercial building along with appropriate parking and landscaping.

1:11:30The industrial supply outlet does not interfere with or disrupt the industrial and commercial service characteristics of the area.

1:11:37In fact the outlet of this nature enhances the quality of the employment zone by providing much needed industrial supplies and equipment to local trades and manufacturing establishments in the surrounding area.

1:11:48The findings of the technical reports support the proposed development and specifically support the requested site, specific official plan and zoning bylaw amendments.

1:11:59In conclusion it's a professional opinion that the proposed development will support the efficient build out of the site and Guelph's mature northwestern industrial area and is representative of good land use planning.

1:12:12Thank you and we will be pleased to answer any questions you may have.

1:12:17Thank you.

1:12:18Great, thank you.

1:12:20I have, it looks like two questions. I'll start with Councillor Caiten and then Gibson please.

1:12:28Thank you. Through you Mr. Mayor.

1:12:31When I was looking online at Princess Auto on Indeed it seems that most of their employment is at minimum wage and their higher management for customer service staff was only listed at $20 which is less than the livable wage in Guelph.

1:12:51Is that their intent to be doing minimum wage jobs?

1:12:57I can't speak for the company.

1:12:59Yeah, I'm going to just jump in there. I'm going to just call that out of order and our staffer in agreement with me in the room, Councillor Caiten, this is a planning decision, not a wage decision for a private company.

1:13:11So, you still have the floor but that's not relevant to planning justification.

1:13:16I was just commenting because they mentioned the amount of employment it would be. So, if we're comparing industrial employment wages versus retail employment wages, that was my thought but I understand.

1:13:31Okay, so do you have a question?

1:13:33No, that was it. Thanks.

1:13:35Okay.

1:13:36Councillor Gibson.

1:13:38Yeah, thank you for Mr. Mayor. I'm going to follow up with staff on this as well but I wanted to give the delegate an opportunity.

1:13:44The employment numbers are intriguing because we are in designated employment land. I just want to give you the opportunity to expand on the number of jobs you're proposing.

1:13:54I'm going to take this question to staff next but it sounded to me like you were exceeding the desired employment for the area under an industrial use and it's really just, we're talking about the type of employment rather than the actual number of employment.

1:14:08It sounds to me from the staff recommendation. Do you want to expand on that at all?

1:14:13Well, yeah, so let me just get there.

1:14:16Second.

1:14:18So the employment density targets for the industrial area of the employment lands in the official plan is 35 jobs per hectare.

1:14:34The total number of employees that are proposed to work at the industrial supply it will be 55. So but what we have to do is because the, there's 1.2 hectares, we have to basically reduce that metric on a per hectare basis.

1:14:51So that works out to 45 jobs per hectare. So it's basically 55, the number 55 divided by 1.2 will give you 45. So you can compare that 45 with the 35.

1:15:01That's recorded in the official plan policy.

1:15:04Thank you. One more follow up.

1:15:06Another aspect that I was thinking about was the fact that repair shops, it sounded like repair shops and repair suppliers or to that nature were allowed in the industrial space.

1:15:17But for some reason we came to the conclusion that Princess Repair, Princess auto didn't fall into that type of use.

1:15:23I'm going to follow that up with staff because it sounds very similar to our York Road corridor in the East End where we have service commercial designations and there's auto repair and auto repair suppliers all through that corridor.

1:15:36I just want to give you an opportunity to sort of talk about the practicality of your support to industrial lands, perhaps not perfectly fitting into a industrial manufacturer, but you are in fact supporting industrial uses.

1:15:52Right. So, so that's exactly right. So that's why I brought in the example, the actual fact that 70% of the Princess auto sales, right, are business oriented, only 30% are retail.

1:16:08Basically the 30% is for home consumption or home use. Right. So the 70% basically goes to trades people, mechanics, whatever they use the parts or whatever they purchase for their manufacturing process or their shops.

1:16:25And basically what what it's being set up is is is is basically an employment supportive use for the the area that is on the Northwest part of Guelph.

1:16:41Now it's not only that area, but it's also the surrounding areas, such as farmers that require material. And what is also happening when you when we get down to the real research, you're getting quite a bit of outflow going to the Kitchener market from from Guelph that shop at these princess autos that the princess auto shop in in in Kitchener.

1:17:04So, not only are you getting the golf going to Kitchener, you're also getting the surrounding area individuals going to Kitchener instead of obviously spending their money in Guelph.

1:17:14Right.

1:17:15I appreciate it. Thank you.

1:17:17Thank you. Is there anything more? Yes.

1:17:20Okay, Councillor Billings.

1:17:22Councillor

1:17:24Okay, so through you, Mr Mayor, I just wanted to to ask on attachment nine in the report.

1:17:31City staff have issues and concerns. And with respect to engineering the functional servicing reports stormwater management.

1:17:41And I was just wondering, do you believe if these issues and concerns can be addressed the concerns that staff have pointed out in the report.

1:17:51Through you, Mr Mayor, all those issues are related to site plan approval issues. And we've we've looked at them. We've talked to engineers and architects. They can.

1:18:00They can be resolved and will be resolved.

1:18:03Okay, thank you for that. And then also back to the 70% sales non home use.

1:18:09So within that 70% you do cater to industrial workers.

1:18:15So my question is, you do sell some major equipment for the industrial workers. Like, can you give me an example for example, like concrete mixers, like.

1:18:26What, what major equipment would you be selling for the industrial workers?

1:18:32Yeah, so, yeah, so Brad, would you.

1:18:36Yeah, I think I could speak to that as being a part of manufacturing and purchasing items from that facility.

1:18:44They offer things like hydraulic pumps, cylinders, tools, air compressors, trailer components, even in the automotive area, this, you know, tires, rims, axles, springs, brakes into the paints, paint, booze, sandblasters.

1:19:05So on. So you do supply you some major equipment. Yes. Yes. Yes. Okay. Thank you for that. That's all Mr. Mayor.

1:19:15All right. Thank you, Councillor Billings.

1:19:17So I just have one question just to stop the questions after me. I just want to make sure I understood something that you said about the parking.

1:19:25So, you know, what we have in front of us here today is obviously a staff position, which we respect of the, of not wanting to recommend for the reasons that they laid out.

1:19:36Sure. But in the public report, staff actually offered an approval motions for us to consider.

1:19:43Right. Within those approval motions that may be tabled. Do they address your parking issue that you brought up?

1:19:54No, because we just seen this parking issue a few days ago. Actually, when the staff report was issued, we didn't, we had no prior knowledge of this.

1:20:04Our request was for four, excuse me, for five spaces per 100 square meters. Okay.

1:20:10Then we found out that staff recommended the three per 100 meters, went back to, to, to Sissato, and they were able to provide us a list of their Ontario stores.

1:20:25And, uh, square footage, number of parking, and their ratios are all above four and a half per 100, per 100 square meters.

1:20:35So, um, so I will, I will ask staff a little bit about that just in a moment, but, um, is that, is that a big deal?

1:20:46I believe that it is being here long enough to understand those ratios and the build out

1:20:52that would be required.

1:20:53So I believe it's a big deal, but I just I need to understand from you guys if that is

1:20:58a big deal as well.

1:21:00And the reason why is because if we do table motions to consider to approve this, we need

1:21:06to understand if we need to look to try to also capture those changes in the parking ratios

1:21:11within the approval motions that we might be tabling.

1:21:14So I just need to understand, you know, the friction there that you have if it's make it

1:21:19or break it moment.

1:21:20I can speak to that, Mayor.

1:21:23So in conversation when this was brought up in this report, I addressed it with Princess

1:21:29Auto and they haven't taken any I asked them if they had any concessions in any other

1:21:34other facilities in any of the other cities and they said no, only one that they know

1:21:40of and it was in Quebec and they've struggled with the lower number, which is in around

1:21:45four spots.

1:21:49And they were very adamant that it's needed for their seasonals and their ebbs and flows

1:21:55of sales sales days.

1:21:59Thank you.

1:22:00I appreciate the clarity.

1:22:02That's important for us to know what we might have to table if we if we go there.

1:22:06So thank you very much.

1:22:08Is there anything further?

1:22:09No.

1:22:10Thank you very much for coming down.

1:22:13And I'll just now put the phone number up on the screen just in case someone else wants

1:22:17to call in and give their opinion on the matter.

1:22:20And I'll just deal the number out loud.

1:22:22It's 519-837-5603.

1:22:27So again, we'll just wait three, four minutes.

1:22:29Okay.

1:22:30Until we see if anyone calls in.

1:22:32Thank you.

1:25:15Thank you.

1:25:16And no one's called in, right?

1:25:17So we're good.

1:25:18Okay.

1:25:19So I'll call the meeting back to order here.

1:25:22Okay.

1:25:23So as is sort of our regular process, I'll ask to see if there's a member of council

1:25:28that would be willing to move the staff recommendation to be tabled.

1:25:33So Kate and we'll move that.

1:25:36Does someone want a second alt?

1:25:38Kate and alt will move in second.

1:25:41So this is a motion then to to refuse.

1:25:45Okay.

1:25:46The application.

1:25:47Is there any questions before I call the vote?

1:25:49Alt, please.

1:25:53Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

1:25:57Just through you two staff, the question that I have is whether one of the principal

1:26:03objections that you might have to this is precedent and the lack of conformity or consistency

1:26:12with zoning and planning it.

1:26:16And by way of that, how out of sync is this?

1:26:20Through the mayor and the council, there are alt.

1:26:25So staff's concern is that the proposal does not conform with the provincial policy statement

1:26:29passed by the provincial government as well as staff's official plan policies.

1:26:35So in staff's opinion, the use is fine if it was located in a service commercial area,

1:26:40but because this is in employment lands, specifically industrial employment lands, staff think that

1:26:45this is inappropriate and inappropriate use.

1:26:48Quick follow up.

1:26:49I appreciate that.

1:26:52It then gets back to how far out of sync actually is that with the issue of employment lands.

1:26:59Is there a nuance to it or is it significant?

1:27:02Through the mayor and council, all so when the provincial planning statement came into

1:27:10effect, they added a new definition for employment lands.

1:27:14So as the applicant appropriately noted, when we did our employment lands need assessment,

1:27:20we had a different lens.

1:27:22The definition of employment land came through after that, which was a 2022-2023 report.

1:27:28And the definition of employment does now exclude institutional and commercial uses,

1:27:35including retail and office.

1:27:37So that is why you have the recommendation in front of you this evening that staff feel

1:27:42this is a retail use and the province did change the definition to employment lands

1:27:47since ROP was approved.

1:27:49And thank you very much.

1:27:50Last question then.

1:27:52So if this application came before us in 2021, would we have a different perspective from

1:27:58staff?

1:28:01Through the mayor and council, I can only comment on the policies that I have in front of me

1:28:04at the time.

1:28:06I guess that's a good answer.

1:28:08I was hoping for more.

1:28:09Thank you.

1:28:14Okay.

1:28:15I'll go to Gibson and then Kate and then looks like I can call the vote.

1:28:20Thank you.

1:28:21Thank you, Mayor.

1:28:22And this is a, that's a good segue to my question that I gave to the delegate.

1:28:26I'll just use that example in the East End on York Road service commercial, I believe

1:28:31is the zoning, but we do have a lot of repair shops and industrial suppliers.

1:28:39Here we have industrial only, but I heard that we could have repair shops in there,

1:28:45but this doesn't seem to qualify.

1:28:47You gave the context in your previous answer, but can you just help me understand like that

1:28:54the, I'm seeing a real gray area here, but I need to hear from staff why they don't believe

1:29:00it's so cut and dry or though I believe it is cut and dry.

1:29:07Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Gibson.

1:29:09So the definition of repair and servicing establishment in the official plan is different

1:29:13from the definition of a vehicle repair establishment.

1:29:16So a vehicle repair establishment use is not permitted within the industrial zone, but

1:29:20is permitted in the service commercial zone or designation rather.

1:29:24Thank you.

1:29:25So repair, this company seems to be supplying repair parts.

1:29:31So that's still not considered an industrial process.

1:29:36Like if I'm selling components that are for the purposes of repairing industrial equipment,

1:29:43can I not be considered an industrial supplier?

1:29:48Through the mayor again to Councillor Gibson.

1:29:50So the repair and servicing establishment definition would be for a business that does

1:29:54the actual repairing and servicing on the site, not for a business that supplies equipment

1:30:00to such an establishment.

1:30:02Okay.

1:30:03I do appreciate staff's clarity on this.

1:30:05I still, I personally see this a large gray area here, but I do appreciate the answers.

1:30:10Thank you.

1:30:12Thank you.

1:30:13And then just a follow up with a busitil.

1:30:17Thank you.

1:30:18Through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:30:20Do we have enough commercial space that is vacant that Princess Otto could start up their

1:30:28company somewhere else in a different location than Guelph?

1:30:31Through the mayor to Councillor Caton.

1:30:36I don't have specific numbers on the amount of vacant commercial lands, but I know there

1:30:40are vacant commercial lands spread throughout the city.

1:30:43I can name a few new locations if you would like, but suffice to say there are vacant

1:30:47commercial lands available that would permit a use such as a Princess Otto as a threat.

1:30:55Thank you.

1:30:56And do we have an average of the wages that are made usually in industrial lands versus

1:31:03retail?

1:31:06Yeah.

1:31:07Through the mayor, I'll have to say that the planning staff would not have that information

1:31:11available and would not look at it as part of a land use application.

1:31:16Thank you.

1:31:17Thank you.

1:31:19And final question through the mayor to staff.

1:31:25With the new tariff responses that we're doing and the increased manufacturing and research

1:31:34and development that we're trying to kind of create within Guelph, what would converting

1:31:42this to a retail use due to our availability for new manufacturing?

1:31:54Through the mayor to Councillor Caton.

1:31:57So again, I think we just from planning staff, we have to go back to the definition of an

1:32:01employment and it would reduce lands that were pure employment if this, you know, as

1:32:07staff would consider this a retail operation.

1:32:12Thank you.

1:32:15Thank you.

1:32:16We'll then just come into a comment from alt before we call the vote.

1:32:20Okay.

1:32:21Sorry, class, do I see your hand too?

1:32:23Yep.

1:32:24Okay.

1:32:25Don't worry.

1:32:26I'll go to you as well.

1:32:27Okay.

1:32:28Thank you.

1:32:29And through the mayor, thank you.

1:32:30I don't have an issue at all with the definition of the type of industry or the site, but I

1:32:34did have a question.

1:32:35I wanted a little bit better clarification on the parking conversation.

1:32:40If you can help me understand that, please.

1:32:42Sure.

1:32:43Through the mayor to Councillor Busuttil.

1:32:46So the recommendation from staff is if, if Council were to approve it, this application

1:32:52that they would approve it with a parking rate of three spaces per 100 square metres,

1:32:56which is in line with retail uses throughout the city.

1:33:00And that would be a minimum parking rate.

1:33:02There is no maximum parking rate.

1:33:04So if Princess Otto wanted to provide five spaces or six spaces, they could do so.

1:33:11Thank you.

1:33:12Go ahead.

1:33:15Councillor Oltway, you should have a quick comment.

1:33:17Then I'll go to Claesden.

1:33:18Just a comment with apologies to staff.

1:33:23I put the motion, I seconded the motion because I believe that proper protocol should be that

1:33:28if a motion appears before us on the order paper that it should be put forward on the

1:33:33agenda before anything else is considered.

1:33:35However, I think that we have staff in between a rock and a hard place on this, that two,

1:33:40three years ago, it is my conjecture without any evidence of this at all that possibly staff

1:33:47might have had a different perspective on this.

1:33:49I don't know about that.

1:33:50I just have to read between the lines.

1:33:52The irony of this is that this Looney-Left Council has often been told that we run contrary

1:34:01to the provincial government.

1:34:03And here we're going to run contrary to the provincial government in order, possibly,

1:34:08if we reject the staff recommendation to support a business coming into Guelph.

1:34:13And I think it would behoove us well to do that and show that we're not a Looney-Left

1:34:19Council.

1:34:20We're a council that is looking at the best interest at Guelph.

1:34:23I can't wait for comments.

1:34:32No, I was just kidding.

1:34:33I'm totally kidding.

1:34:34Councillor Claesden, bring us home there.

1:34:37Go ahead.

1:34:38Councillor Lutzen will actually ask my question.

1:34:40So.

1:34:41Okay.

1:34:42Sorry, Billings.

1:34:43Did I hear your voice?

1:34:45Yes.

1:34:46Okay.

1:34:47I asked you, Mr. Mayor, to staff, under the existing zoning, as a complementary use, we

1:34:54allow like restaurants, a bank.

1:34:57So with your definition of an employment use, would that still be allowed, a bank or a restaurant?

1:35:03So complementary uses in the zoning bylaw are only permitted to a certain size, as well

1:35:12a complementary use has to be complementary to an existing permitted use on that property.

1:35:17There is no other existing permitted use proposed for this land.

1:35:22I know, but if it was a restaurant that was asking for approval, then you're saying as

1:35:29a complementary use, you would not approve a bank or a restaurant?

1:35:40Through the Mayor to Councillor Billings.

1:35:43If it was a permitted use as a complementary use, then it would be permitted in association

1:35:47with a permitted use.

1:35:50That would be the primary use on that site.

1:35:52So if it was standalone, then no staff would not support it.

1:35:56Okay.

1:35:57Well, Mr. Mayor, I will not be supportive of this motion on the floor.

1:36:06Okay.

1:36:07Thank you.

1:36:08Okay.

1:36:11So the staff recommendation has been tabled.

1:36:14There's two parts to the motion.

1:36:16Okay.

1:36:17I'm going to split them because the first one is just to receive the application.

1:36:23That's fine.

1:36:24I think everyone's nodding their head.

1:36:26We've got to receive the application.

1:36:28The second motion is to refuse.

1:36:32So just to be very clear, for my members of council with me here, if you vote in favour

1:36:39of that motion, that means you're agreeing with staff that we should refuse.

1:36:42Vote against means obviously you're against that recommendation.

1:36:47So with my chance to give an opinion to me, this is an elbows up moment for our city.

1:36:55We draped ourselves in the flag a couple months ago here to say go Canadian, pro-Canadian,

1:37:02buy Canadian, support Canadian.

1:37:04We have a Canadian company that has come to our city and wants to put millions of dollars

1:37:10into a build on a piece of land that's been sitting there for a very long time in a zone

1:37:16that I believe is very complementary to exactly what they need to do.

1:37:21To me, this is reputational for the city.

1:37:24Are we open for business?

1:37:25Are we actually going to try to help with these types of people and businesses that

1:37:30want to come here and create jobs?

1:37:33All jobs are important.

1:37:35And so I think that, I think, you know, in my view, we definitely should not support

1:37:40the staff recommendation.

1:37:42And I say that respectfully.

1:37:43I've talked to you prior.

1:37:44You know, I say that very respectfully.

1:37:48And that we should look to pass a motion after this if it's refused of approval.

1:37:53And I'll just leave the comments at that.

1:37:55So I hope this, as I said, is an elbows up moment for us.

1:38:00I'll call the vote on number one, which is just to receive the application.

1:38:04Is anyone against just receiving it?

1:38:08No one.

1:38:09That's unanimous.

1:38:10And then I'll call the vote on number two, which is to refuse.

1:38:14So if anyone is against that, please raise your hand.

1:38:19OK.

1:38:21So it's probably easier if I just say the one person that's against, which would

1:38:27be in favour of that would be Councillor Caton.

1:38:30So everyone else is in favour to refuse.

1:38:33OK, so that fails technically.

1:38:36And so Councillor Goller is going to move a motion, which would be to approve.

1:38:43I'll give the floor to you.

1:38:45Thank you, Worship.

1:38:47Through you, I'd like to move a motion to approve the application subject to

1:38:51attachments five and six of this document.

1:38:56If I may have a second there.

1:38:59Yes, class.

1:38:59Yes.

1:39:00Yes.

1:39:02Billings.

1:39:03OK, Bill.

1:39:05There we go.

1:39:05OK, Billings, Clawson, all that.

1:39:07Lots of people had their hands up here.

1:39:09So thank you.

1:39:10Go continue.

1:39:11You still have the floor.

1:39:13Thank you, Worship.

1:39:13And I wanted to thank staff for doing the work to prepare both of these options

1:39:18for us.

1:39:20And I just wanted to point us to the provisions in the package.

1:39:28With this motion, we would be authorizing this build by making the necessary

1:39:33changes to our zoning bylaw and to our official plan.

1:39:36I did have a question of staff, if I could.

1:39:40Yeah, thank you.

1:39:40And I believe this was asked previously.

1:39:43I just wanted to ask one more time in attachment six.

1:39:48It talks about parking, parking minimums.

1:39:50Just wanted to be a hundred percent.

1:39:52If they want to go ahead and have seven parking spots per, would that be allowed?

1:39:58If they want to go above the minimum that's listed there?

1:40:01Through the mayor to Councillor Gollard, that is correct.

1:40:03Yes.

1:40:05Thank you very much.

1:40:06Thank you, Worship.

1:40:07With that, is there anything further before I call the vote to approve?

1:40:11Nothing further.

1:40:12Okay.

1:40:12I will call the vote then.

1:40:15Is anyone against the approval?

1:40:17Okay.

1:40:19Just Councillor Caton.

1:40:22Okay.

1:40:23That means it has passed.

1:40:25And looking to staff, is there anything more you need to get this project going from us?

1:40:31No.

1:40:32Great.

1:40:32Congratulations.

1:40:33Thank you for coming and look forward to seeing a shovel on the ground and jobs.

1:40:39So thank you.

1:40:40So thank you.

1:40:42With that, we're going to keep moving along for the next item, which is five Queen Street.

1:40:51This is a notice of intention to designate.

1:40:54We have one delegation, which is Meg Thornburn.

1:40:57This Meg here.

1:40:58Hello.

1:41:18Hi Meg.

1:41:19How are you?

1:41:20Good.

1:41:21Good.

1:41:21Thank you very much for waiting and welcome.

1:41:24And you have, so this is a bit different now.

1:41:26You have up to five minutes, not the 10.

1:41:28Okay.

1:41:29So you'll hear a chime at the four minutes and 30 second mark giving you the 32nd warning.

1:41:33So don't get there because your mic gets turned off.

1:41:35Okay.

1:41:36And not at four 30 at five.

1:41:37No, at five.

1:41:38At five.

1:41:38Yeah.

1:41:39And then, and then just stick around just in case any of my colleagues or myself have a question for you when you're done.

1:41:44Okay.

1:41:44So the timer will start whenever you're ready.

1:41:46Go right ahead.

1:41:48Mr. Mayor and Chancellor's, thank you for this opportunity to speak.

1:41:51I hope you have found time to read the letter I submitted.

1:41:55My husband and I do not support this unsolicited designation of our home.

1:41:59However, we do strongly support heritage.

1:42:02As anyone aware of the meticulous work we have done to restore our previously derelict home will know we have devoted ourselves to the restoration project.

1:42:10We call home, but due to budgetary constraints and our high standards, we have done almost all of the thousands of hours of work ourselves.

1:42:19And it's still going on.

1:42:21You should know we have collaborated with heritage glove previously.

1:42:24And staff has commended us on the extensive careful and thoughtful work we have undertaken as stewards of this property.

1:42:32So frankly, it was a shock to receive the unsolicited designation letter and the extremely tight timeframe it forced upon us.

1:42:39We are definitely not an at risk property.

1:42:42We had no warning, no prior opportunity to consult, discuss or negotiate.

1:42:47The process has been rushed and staff has not provided us with important information.

1:42:51We were not notified in time to delegate at heritage Guelph.

1:42:55We were not informed that we would be subjected to the enhanced property bylaw standards.

1:42:59Staff did not offer to consult us on the heritage elements to be named in the proposed designation, which has been done for other property.

1:43:07Staff did not have some inform us that we have the right to contest the intention to designate or to appeal to council if it votes to issue the notice.

1:43:15Nor did they ever ask us if we supported or opposed the proposed designation.

1:43:20Staff did not suggest that we consult with our insurance company.

1:43:23We decided on our own that we should.

1:43:26The agent said, and I quote, we do not ensure individually designated heritage properties and further explain that the company makes no exceptions.

1:43:35You may argue that this is wrong or shouldn't happen, but for us, it is a fact.

1:43:41My husband and I have full time commitments and have been forced to figure out heritage designation with little free time.

1:43:46We were given a few weeks to understand what this designation process entails and to repair our response.

1:43:52Meanwhile, staff has had years to educate the public about designation and reach out to heritage homeowners, but haven't done so.

1:43:59Yes, we understand the time pressure of bill 23, but it does not justify this hasty autocratic process.

1:44:05In staff's letter, they suggest that we contact them about the benefits of designation. So we did.

1:44:11They admitted that, in fact, there are none other than a plaque.

1:44:15How is that possible when many other municipalities in southern Ontario offer incentives to the owners of designated properties, such as property tax breaks and home restoration improvement grants?

1:44:25Why has this not been a priority for heritage staff?

1:44:28For responsible, dedicated and long term homeowners, heritage designations can add unnecessary oversight delays and expense.

1:44:37Add to that no incentives and it's very clear why there has been little uptake of voluntary designation.

1:44:44We also feel that the selection process for this forced designation has possibly been inequitable or just not transparent.