Staff to identify potential sources of capital funding for the development of a mixed use space including an arts and cultural centre in the former Drill…

3:28:57And we will have a presentation.

3:29:00We're gonna have Dana Evans speak

3:29:02and also Deputy CEO Colleen Clackbush.

3:29:08And we have three delegations.

3:29:39Chair Dana.

3:29:40Yes.

3:29:42I'm ready when you are.

3:29:43We're ready.

3:29:46Ms. Evans, go ahead.

3:29:47Thank you.

3:29:48Good afternoon.

3:29:49As indicated, I am Dana Evans.

3:29:50I'm the general manager for culture and recreation

3:29:54with the city.

3:29:55We're here to share some information

3:29:58as it relates to the Dural Hall

3:30:00and a potential arts and culture hub.

3:30:02We wanna thank artists and cultural organizations

3:30:05for the support through this process,

3:30:07through our community engagement.

3:30:08And also the tremendous amount of base work

3:30:11and foundational work that has happened

3:30:13from our colleagues across facilities,

3:30:15community engagement, many other city departments,

3:30:18and certainly our friends

3:30:19at the visual arts centers of Guelph.

3:30:21Since 2017, the city acquired the property

3:30:24at 52 Far Core Street, known as the Dural Hall,

3:30:27after Metrolinx included it as a part of a land exchange

3:30:31to help with two-way all-day go transit.

3:30:34The property has been designated

3:30:36as cultural heritage value or asset of interest.

3:30:40The city has invested major structural repair

3:30:44into the building.

3:30:46Market sounding report has been completed.

3:30:49SAF provided an update in real estate assets report,

3:30:52and we've conducted a request for expression of interests

3:30:56linked to not-for-profit organizations.

3:30:59Through an update in June last year,

3:31:02there was interest from two proponents,

3:31:04and we reviewed those in session with council.

3:31:07In the end, it was discovered

3:31:09that neither would be feasible to continue

3:31:11as an not-for-profit operator of this location.

3:31:15At that time, council directed this feasibility study

3:31:18for the potential future arts and culture hub.

3:31:22We've conducted community engagement

3:31:23that focused on cultural and community leaders,

3:31:26or with our cultural community leaders,

3:31:28as possible end users of the space

3:31:31to collect what could be and what would be

3:31:33to imagine the building as it might become.

3:31:37Through the cultural plan

3:31:38and the Indigenous Relations Framework,

3:31:41we heard from local, urban, Indigenous community members

3:31:44for the need to access for space,

3:31:47access to space to gather and practice art,

3:31:50cultural traditions, and for ceremony.

3:31:53It is acknowledged that these needs

3:31:55would be incorporated into any future space

3:31:57and should be prioritized.

3:32:00In Guelph, there is a significant gap

3:32:02in need for a creation space, exhibition space,

3:32:05for local professionals, early career and visual arts,

3:32:09and professionals, particularly an environment

3:32:12that encourages collaboration

3:32:14and a broad community participation.

3:32:16The drill hall has most of this, if not all of it,

3:32:20of the characteristics required to address

3:32:22this community need for arts and culture spaces.

3:32:25With the support from government and community and business,

3:32:28and the provisions of a wide range

3:32:30of arts and culture programming,

3:32:33we could realize an arts and culture hub at this location.

3:32:38This model relies heavily on participation

3:32:41and funding from the city.

3:32:43Currently, these funds are not readily available.

3:32:47There is a need, there is a desire

3:32:49for a culture hub in Guelph to cultivate community,

3:32:51collaboration, and to support local,

3:32:55this cultural economic community.

3:32:57In accordance with the culture plan 2030,

3:33:00staff will continue to work with the cultural community

3:33:02to identify the needs and gaps in the cultural spaces

3:33:06and places and across all artistic disciplines

3:33:09to collaborate into solutions that might address

3:33:12some of the challenges across the sector.

3:33:15I'd like to pass things across to Deputy CAO,

3:33:17Ms. Clack Bush, with further information and comment.

3:33:21Thanks, Ms. Evans, and thanks to the committee of the whole

3:33:25for this opportunity today.

3:33:27So I just want to acknowledge, again,

3:33:29the work that Ms. Evans' team at Tammy Adkin is here as well,

3:33:33and the work that they've done

3:33:34on responding to this council motion.

3:33:36We also have Antivilco here,

3:33:38who can assist with any questions

3:33:39that are specific more on the facility side of things.

3:33:43This was very fulsome in gaining,

3:33:47reduced this report, and I really do hope

3:33:49that it goes without saying that as champions of culture,

3:33:52and I think you all know to me to be that,

3:33:54we would love to see more arts and culture space.

3:33:56That's not in question here.

3:33:58And as you'll see from the consultants report,

3:34:00they have indicated that this space is feasible

3:34:03for this type of usage.

3:34:05However, feasible does not necessarily mean viable.

3:34:10And so for this space to be viable,

3:34:12it needs public sector investment from the city,

3:34:15and most likely from other levels of government.

3:34:18This report does contain preliminary estimates,

3:34:20and of course those could be refined further

3:34:22if we had an identified partner

3:34:24who had specific plans that we could then cost out.

3:34:27But regardless, we know based on the previous market sounding

3:34:30and the request for proposals

3:34:32that were undertaken for this site,

3:34:34that public investment is going to be needed

3:34:36for this project to be viable.

3:34:39And I also just want to emphasize that as you all know

3:34:41from the difficult conversations we had

3:34:43during last year's budget processes,

3:34:45we grappled with overall affordability.

3:34:47A number of existing projects were deferred

3:34:50in our 10-year plan

3:34:51as part of our capital prioritization work.

3:34:53And so that's why the staff recommendation before you

3:34:56comes from that current priority,

3:34:59which is to balance affordability

3:35:01with the need for significant investments in housing,

3:35:03critical infrastructure upgrades

3:35:05and maintaining existing levels of programs

3:35:07and services were possible.

3:35:08And this does leave little capacity

3:35:10to commit to further capital investment

3:35:12or ongoing operating support for the drill hall.

3:35:16We will of course respond in action

3:35:17whatever direction you give us today.

3:35:19My one flag is that we do only have council approval

3:35:22to retain this asset and continue investing

3:35:25in the annual maintenance until today,

3:35:27until this report came forward.

3:35:28So we would just remind you that there is,

3:35:31if there is interest in retaining the asset,

3:35:34we do need that direction today

3:35:36to continue on maintenance and upkeep of the building.

3:35:38And lastly, I of course, want to assure you

3:35:40that regardless of what decisions are made today,

3:35:43our team has a commitment to continue working

3:35:45with the culture community and Guelph

3:35:46to identify and creatively address needs and gaps.

3:35:49Thank you.

3:35:52Thank you.

3:35:53We're gonna move right through to the delegations.

3:35:55We have three of them.

3:35:56So is Susan Reckliffe here?

3:36:02I don't see her.

3:36:04Okay, maybe she'll.

3:36:07Michelle Peek.

3:36:22Hi, Ms. Peek.

3:36:24So I'll give it a drill, no pun intended.

3:36:27But you have five minutes

3:36:32and there'll be a warning at the 32nd order.

3:36:36Okay, thanks.

3:36:37Thank you.

3:36:37Good afternoon everyone.

3:36:38Thanks for having me.

3:36:40You probably know me by now.

3:36:41Dr. Michelle Peek founder and executive director

3:36:43of Art Not Shame.

3:36:44And but just as a sort of recap reminder,

3:36:47Art Not Shame is a community driven art space initiative

3:36:50dedicated to creating inclusive trauma informed spaces

3:36:54where everyone belongs.

3:36:56And after nearly eight years

3:36:57of delivering programming and Guelph,

3:36:58we recently transformed a rundown

3:37:002,600 square foot storefront into an accessible

3:37:03art filled community hub.

3:37:05An achievement met with enthusiasm from the community.

3:37:08The recently released feasibility study

3:37:10exploring potential arts and culture uses for the drill hall

3:37:13names potential operating partners and tenants

3:37:15as well as a potential developer

3:37:16who have come forward or been identified.

3:37:18And we're just here to sort of publicly say

3:37:20that Art Not Shame is that potential operating partner

3:37:22and the local developer and funder

3:37:24is a dedicated patron of our work.

3:37:26This is a donor we have been cultivating a relationship with

3:37:29for the past couple of years

3:37:30and sees the potential of this collaboration

3:37:31due to our eight years of experience

3:37:33in navigating the municipal, provincial,

3:37:35federal arts funding landscape

3:37:37and our ability to start, manage

3:37:38and finish a major capital project.

3:37:41What they bring is a wealth of knowledge

3:37:42from the development world and an interest in funding

3:37:44something that will have a long lasting impact

3:37:46in the community.

3:37:47Their expertise in development combined

3:37:49with our deep community connections

3:37:51makes this an exciting and viable opportunity

3:37:53but one that requires more time.

3:37:56We therefore urge council not to sell the drill hall

3:37:58but instead allow more time to develop

3:38:00a comprehensive proposal with confirmed partners

3:38:02and funders.

3:38:04So why Art Not Shame?

3:38:05We have a full plate.

3:38:06We admittedly did not see ourselves in this position

3:38:08and we wouldn't be here if we didn't see enormous potential

3:38:11for the city of Guelph and the arts community

3:38:13and we believe we're positioned to lead for three reasons.

3:38:16Our history, our mandate

3:38:17and our experience with capital projects.

3:38:20We are a community led organization

3:38:21committed to making arts accessible for individual,

3:38:24social and economic benefit

3:38:25and our work aligns very closely

3:38:27with the Guelph's culture plan priorities.

3:38:29And if you're not familiar with the work

3:38:30I just highly encourage you to check out the exhibit

3:38:32at the Guelph Civic Museum

3:38:33which features three of our major projects

3:38:35over 200 local creators

3:38:37and kind of just really beautifully exemplifies

3:38:39what we try to do

3:38:40which is to bring people together

3:38:41to create tangible change in their lives

3:38:43bridging art for wellbeing and community care

3:38:45and prioritizing the sharing of knowledge

3:38:48for more just practices.

3:38:50So we have the organizational history wherewithal

3:38:52and experience to meet the eligibility thresholds

3:38:54of the sector's major arts and capital grants

3:38:56were the city to pursue a private public partnership

3:38:59which is key.

3:39:00We believe that any use of the drill hall

3:39:02for arts and culture must consider all aspects

3:39:04of accessibility including socio-cultural

3:39:06and cognitive accessibility.

3:39:08For instance, providing space for cultural programming

3:39:10led by indigenous community members,

3:39:11general-neutral bathrooms and so on.

3:39:14We are also led by or have existing relationships

3:39:16with equity-denied community members

3:39:18and have a thorough understanding of experience

3:39:20and working with across diverse access needs.

3:39:22But I should just pause here and say that

3:39:24our role in these early stages

3:39:26is we see as research-driven and strategic.

3:39:30Ensuring this project serves the broader arts community.

3:39:33If it no longer aligns with our collective needs

3:39:35we're prepared to step aside.

3:39:37Our own community arts hubs started as the what if

3:39:40can result in something beautiful

3:39:41and that's what we see here.

3:39:43But our space like many's in town is also precarious

3:39:46given our status as renters and we're subject

3:39:50to the whims of landlords who have already threatened

3:39:52to double our rent in the four years that our lease is up.

3:39:55I recently had a conversation with a prof

3:39:57who specializes in large-scale infrastructure projects

3:40:00and the value of public-private partnerships

3:40:02about the viability of this particular project.

3:40:04And by the end of the conversation

3:40:06he was in the dream with me while holding the very honest

3:40:08reality of what kind of undertaking this would be.

3:40:10At multiple times he resisted me in the conversation

3:40:13but by the end he was all in.

3:40:15And so there is much work to be done

3:40:17to explore whether this is indeed a viable opportunity

3:40:19that genuinely uplifts the arts community

3:40:21and what we need for that is more time.

3:40:24While some initial renderings that I've done

3:40:25show promise for a multi-use art space

3:40:27we do not, for example, have clear answers from heritage

3:40:30about what is and isn't possible.

3:40:32And we think if council is serious

3:40:33about seeing an arts and culture use for the drill hall

3:40:35we need the time to explore this in further depth.

3:40:37So it's with all this in mind that we humbly ask the council

3:40:40to reject the staff recommendation to sell the drill hall

3:40:43and allow us more time to work with his developer

3:40:45slash funder to see what might be possible.

3:40:50Thank you.

3:40:51Are there any questions?

3:40:54Okay, Mayor.

3:40:55Point of order, Mayor.

3:40:56Point of order Chair Downer.

3:40:59I'm rising on a point of order

3:41:01because I'm a bit concerned about this pitch.

3:41:04And I was wondering if staff could please comment.

3:41:06I appreciate the integrity of the organization

3:41:10and this initiative, but I think it is significantly

3:41:14premature as we are in a position that we would have

3:41:17to address this through an RFP.

3:41:20Would that not be true?

3:41:24Yes, of course it would be true that it's an RFP.

3:41:27They're just asking what their ask is, is not to sell it

3:41:31because they have a vision for it that they would want

3:41:33to be part of the solution down the road.

3:41:36Okay, thanks.

3:41:39Okay, no Gatry.

3:41:41Yeah, thank you.

3:41:42I mean, it was almost a little bit along the lines

3:41:44of what councillor Altus said through you, Madam Chair.

3:41:48So I'll just show my cards right now.

3:41:50I don't want to sell the building.

3:41:51Okay, so that's where I'm at.

3:41:53But why are we just hearing about some developer

3:41:57that might be interested?

3:41:58Which is great.

3:42:00But why wasn't that done through the other RFP

3:42:04and all this other open processes

3:42:06that have happened over a couple of years?

3:42:08I guess that's where I'm at on this.

3:42:11It's just like, I love what I'm hearing.

3:42:12Don't get me wrong.

3:42:13I just, like, my gosh, we've had open RFPs

3:42:17and expressions of interest and it all has to be

3:42:21on the up and up and it's so, I'm astonished

3:42:25to hear all of a sudden out of the woodwork,

3:42:27there's just someone that's interested.

3:42:29Which is great, but I just wonder why isn't this person

3:42:32dying all the other stuff that we've had on the table

3:42:35and open doors for this kind of stuff for a couple years?

3:42:40So I'm as astonished because we weren't looking

3:42:44to be in this position or take on this role.

3:42:47We're sort of rolling with things as they roll out.

3:42:49But I think an answer to your question,

3:42:52finding that kind of funder takes time

3:42:55because you have to have a trusted relationship

3:42:58with the funder.

3:42:59So this just happened to be someone

3:43:00that we've been creating a relationship with

3:43:03over the past couple of years as a patron of our work.

3:43:07And so I can't just cold call someone out of the blue

3:43:10and say, hey, do you wanna put in many millions of dollars

3:43:13to this thing?

3:43:14You don't know me or trust me.

3:43:15And not even that I had that strategy in mind,

3:43:18it's just a person we started to get to know.

3:43:20Yeah, so it's not, I hear you and that was if I'm like,

3:43:24I'm sure they're gonna ask why now.

3:43:26And it's just, it's not really in our control.

3:43:28It's just sort of serendipity that this funder came up

3:43:31and in a conversation about he came to our space

3:43:34and I was explaining the process,

3:43:37this other thing going on.

3:43:38I don't know if this is something you're interested in.

3:43:40And it kind of just happened organically,

3:43:42but I also like to Phil's point,

3:43:47like we are not ashamed does not need to be a lead in this.

3:43:51We just see this potential

3:43:53and this funder happens to come through our relationship,

3:43:58but genuinely just don't wanna miss this opportunity.

3:44:02Yeah.

3:44:03Thank you very much for clarifying that.

3:44:05I think I'll just leave it at that

3:44:08because I think we should be cautious a little bit

3:44:11about how far over the nose of our skis we get here

3:44:14a little bit, but again,

3:44:16my questioning was not in a manner to dismiss it at all.

3:44:22So thank you for the clarification.

3:44:24Okay.

3:44:24Are there any other questions?

3:44:27Okay, thank you very much.

3:44:28No problem.

3:44:29Okay.

3:44:32Norma Mendoza.

3:44:51Okay.

3:44:52I think you probably heard me say the five minutes

3:44:55with the 32nd warning.

3:44:58So much.

3:44:59My name is Norma Mendoza.

3:45:01I've been before this council before.

3:45:03My pronouns are sure and I'm here today

3:45:06like Michelle Peake from Art Not Shame

3:45:09to ask that the council pause

3:45:12and reject any motions to sell the drill hall.

3:45:17Obviously, as you've heard from Michelle,

3:45:18there is real interest and potential

3:45:20in realizing the drill hall as an arts and culture space

3:45:23that's actually rooted in support

3:45:25and demonstrated experience from within the community.

3:45:28And I do feel that Art Not Shame could be a lead in that

3:45:31and could also involve other organizations

3:45:34and other stakeholders,

3:45:35given that this land developer has recently come forward

3:45:38to express interest.

3:45:41A little bit about me.

3:45:43For those who may not remember, it's been a little bit.

3:45:46I've been in the arts my entire life.

3:45:48I currently work as a television producer

3:45:50and as a content producer in the visual arts,

3:45:52but I'm also on the board of a much larger organization

3:45:55that's very similar to Art Not Shame

3:45:57located in Toronto called Workman Arts.

3:46:01I've been with that organization for almost 10 years

3:46:04and in 10 years have been part of the strategic initiatives

3:46:09to not only double the programming,

3:46:12triple the membership,

3:46:14but to also make it a viably sustainable,

3:46:17long-term organization that relies on federal,

3:46:20provincial funding,

3:46:22but also well-aligned anchor donors and patrons.

3:46:27I think that instead of offering a lot of what Michelle,

3:46:31or supporting what Michelle has said,

3:46:33I'd like to speak a little bit to the process

3:46:37of the feasibility report.

3:46:41I was involved in the community engagement workshops,

3:46:45which I thought were wonderful.

3:46:47We got to tour the space, got to tour the drill hall.

3:46:51There were a number of other arts-minded folks

3:46:54in those workshops,

3:46:56but one of the things that was not,

3:46:59I don't think deeply addressed,

3:47:02given that it was a workshop

3:47:04and it was just one point in time

3:47:06of a few hours of people gathering

3:47:08was what could the space truly be

3:47:11from a community perspective?

3:47:13We had a lot of folks there who were

3:47:16from dance organizations, visual arts organizations,

3:47:19filmmaking organizations,

3:47:21and there wasn't a consensus necessarily

3:47:24around truly what the drill hall could be

3:47:27to then be able to really meaningfully discuss

3:47:29what that governance model would look like

3:47:31or what that financing path could be.

3:47:33So I think that what Michelle is speaking to

3:47:38with this serendipitous moment

3:47:41of this land developer coming forward

3:47:43is actually the deep dive into that.

3:47:46What could it truly be from a numbers perspective,

3:47:50from a tangible perspective?

3:47:52Not from a consultation with 20 people,

3:47:57of the 20 what-ifs,

3:47:59but what could it genuinely become

3:48:01if we were to budget it,

3:48:03if we were to timeline it,

3:48:04if we were to involve a real construction company?

3:48:07What does that meaningfully look like?

3:48:09Because I actually don't think

3:48:12that we've gotten to that level yet.

3:48:14What I'm aware of in reading the Feasibility Report now

3:48:17is that the building has been put up for sale

3:48:20or it's been offered to the public.

3:48:22It's got a great deal amount of limitations,

3:48:24it's heritage designation, proximity to the railroads.

3:48:27So it doesn't make it a desirable building

3:48:30for purchase in the for-profit space.

3:48:32But what it does do for the not-for-profit space,

3:48:35not just for an organization like Art Not Shame,

3:48:37who is constantly clamoring for pennies

3:48:39to keep their doors open,

3:48:41like many other arts organizations here in the city,

3:48:44is allow for a potential legacy building

3:48:47that is downtown, close to services, close to transportation,

3:48:51and allows for a real hub to be created

3:48:54that can be around for a long time

3:48:57and not have to fight those for-profit constraints

3:49:02that often come with rental, leasing,

3:49:05and the navigation of property.

3:49:07So I'm here to support that.

3:49:09I'm also here to offer that,

3:49:11as some of the, that does currently sit

3:49:13on the Board of Art Not Shame,

3:49:15given that this land developer has come forward.

3:49:17I've been a part of those conversations.

3:49:20I also myself at the executive level

3:49:23do have a wealth of connections and a lot of knowledge

3:49:28in terms of governance models, fiduciary and legal

3:49:32supports for something like this

3:49:34if it was truly a viable project.

3:49:38So thank you very much.

3:49:40Thank you.

3:49:40Are there any questions for Ms. Mendoza?

3:49:46Okay, thank you.

3:49:47Thanks.

3:49:50Okay, are there any questions for staff?

3:49:54Okay, let's put the motion on the floor.

3:50:02I'll put the motion on the floor

3:50:05just to get it on the floor.

3:50:07Or maybe the clerk could jump in.

3:50:12I'm concerned that there's motions coming up

3:50:14that are contrary to this.

3:50:15That's right.

3:50:16So I'm wondering if we could just,

3:50:18it's not normal process,

3:50:20but I'm wondering if we could just go straight

3:50:21to the other motions,

3:50:23if there's really no appetite for us to agree respectfully

3:50:27to the staff position.

3:50:32Okay.

3:50:33Up to you, obviously.

3:50:34That is our normal process,

3:50:35but I think the amendments would be,

3:50:38they're not amendments, they're actually contrary.

3:50:44Let's do the first motion

3:50:46that the drill hall feasibility study be received.

3:50:57Okay.

3:50:58And let's go into questions from that.

3:51:01Are there any questions before we get into the motions

3:51:05of staff?

3:51:08Ms. Guthrie?

3:51:09Thanks, and through you, Madam Chair.

3:51:14I just want to be,

3:51:17I just want staff to maybe just help guide

3:51:20where this might go based on the delegations we just heard.

3:51:24I just want to make sure that

3:51:29the excitement of what we heard

3:51:32doesn't get us ahead of proper processes,

3:51:36transparency, disposition, partnerships,

3:51:41like contracts.

3:51:43So can you just make sure from a staff position

3:51:45that you let everyone know right now,

3:51:47so we're all on the same page,

3:51:49that we'd be careful of where we're waiting into some things

3:51:53in regards to either doing something with the building

3:51:57and or operating.

3:51:59I just think those two things,

3:52:01we just need to be very careful about what we do.

3:52:03And I would love to hear from staff

3:52:04about making sure that we're playing

3:52:06in the right arena right now.

3:52:09Thank you.

3:52:10So through the chair, absolutely.

3:52:12As I said in my opening remarks,

3:52:13one thing that would be vitally important for you to do

3:52:15is if you do have the desire to retain this building,

3:52:18you need to pass that motion giving us direction

3:52:20for Mr. Vilko's team to maintain this building

3:52:24beyond this month.

3:52:25So that would be step one.

3:52:27And then I guess to the question from the mayor,

3:52:29part of why we are here is because the last time

3:52:32that this report came forward and staff recommended

3:52:34declaring the building surplus,

3:52:35there was a different group came to the podium

3:52:39and delegated and made suggestions

3:52:40about what the building could be used for.

3:52:42And you sent us a way to go and do

3:52:43an independent feasibility study.

3:52:46That's what we've delivered.

3:52:47And so recognizing and hearing that there may still be

3:52:50potential in the community for the development

3:52:53of this building, that's great and that's exciting.

3:52:55But from a process point of view,

3:52:57we would certainly recommend that council first,

3:53:02my recommendation would be that you would address

3:53:04the financial because we have already gone out

3:53:06and done a market sounding and a request for proposal

3:53:08with no city involvement financially.

3:53:11And we didn't get a lot of responses

3:53:12and we heard from delegates last time this came forward

3:53:15that that was one of the impediments.

3:53:17So I would suggest that you need to tackle the,

3:53:20is the city prepared to put money into this?

3:53:23And when I say city, I mean as council,

3:53:25are you prepared to put an investment into this building?

3:53:29And then the step would be issuing a follow up request

3:53:33for proposals through an open and transparent process

3:53:36where we tell everyone what the boundaries are.

3:53:40What is the funding if there's capital

3:53:42and or operating available?

3:53:43What is the purpose that you're looking for,

3:53:47the building to be used for?

3:53:48We would then suggest that you give us that direction.

3:53:52So I guess to recap, step one,

3:53:54tell us to retain the building and maintain it.

3:53:57Step two, make a decision about if,

3:54:01and then step three would be to issue an open

3:54:03and transparent RFP direct us to do that

3:54:07so that it is clear to the community

3:54:08and anybody who might be expressing interest.

3:54:11You've heard from delegates today that there is interest,

3:54:13but I think we need to be very, very clear

3:54:15and issue that in an open and transparent way.

3:54:18Okay.

3:54:19Okay, thank you so much.

3:54:20And that's my only question.

3:54:22Okay, I'm gonna go to councillor class and to put,

3:54:26she, okay, let's do a vote on the receipt.

3:54:29Is there, is anyone opposed to the receipt?

3:54:32No one's reposed.

3:54:33Okay, for the rest of the motions,

3:54:36I'm gonna go to councillor class and to put a motion

3:54:39on the floor.

3:54:41Yes. Okay, thank you.

3:54:42And thanks camp for that question

3:54:43because I think it answered a question

3:54:46that I had for staff regarding the primary reason

3:54:53for not recommending the drill hall

3:54:55as a visual art space being the cost.

3:55:00So I'm just gonna read the motions

3:55:01and then I'll speak to my just to pick up some rationale.

3:55:05And I also will apologize.

3:55:07I have a bit of mumbra

3:55:08and I'm 10 weeks postpartum.

3:55:11So please bear with me.

3:55:12So I've got two motions.

3:55:14I've got three motions.

3:55:16I have since been potentially informed

3:55:18that maybe motion two isn't necessary,

3:55:21but I'm gonna read them out

3:55:22just because they're up on the screen already.

3:55:24So the first motion addresses the retention of the drill hall

3:55:29so that we retain 72 Farcora Street as a city owned asset

3:55:33and continue to be responsible and fund

3:55:36and maintain the current state of the structural elements

3:55:38and primary systems estimated at approximately $125,000

3:55:42a year annually.

3:55:44So that just first of all keeps it in our possession

3:55:47and addresses CAO Clackbush's direction.

3:55:55The second part is with regard to funding

3:55:58and identifying potential sources of capital funding.

3:56:01So again, what I've heard from people who applied for the RFP

3:56:07and also from the various studies that have been done

3:56:09is that there needs to be some capital addressed to this.

3:56:13So the second is that staff be directed

3:56:16to identify potential sources of capital funding

3:56:19for the development of a mixed use space,

3:56:21including an arts and cultural center

3:56:25in the former drill hall,

3:56:26as well as to identify the operating budget implications

3:56:29as part of the multi-year budget

3:56:32and to respectfully request that the Americans

3:56:33that are allocating funds to move the project forward

3:56:36in the 2026 budget.

3:56:38And then the third part,

3:56:40I think would address what some of our delegates

3:56:42have come to speak to today

3:56:44in that open and transparent process

3:56:47that once these funds have been identified

3:56:49that city staff will develop an open process

3:56:52to evaluate, identify community partner or partners

3:56:55to transform the drill hall into a mixed use space,

3:56:58including an arts and cultural center,

3:57:00but also respecting the heritage attributes of the building.

3:57:04So those are the three motions.

3:57:06And over the past week,

3:57:09I've been sort of immersing myself

3:57:11in sort of the history of this building

3:57:13and the history of the city's acquisition of it.

3:57:17And I've had discussions with community members,

3:57:20some folks who have been involved

3:57:22in the various parts of the RFPs,

3:57:25they've done walkthroughs,

3:57:26they've been involved in the sounding studies,

3:57:28and they've kind of helped me to get to these motions.

3:57:32And to be short, my perspective is that it's time for council

3:57:36to, and pardon the expression,

3:57:39but to poop or get off the pot with regard to the drill hall.

3:57:43So we acquired it in 2017

3:57:46and we've put a lot of resources into this building.

3:57:49Like financially, we've put already $5 million into it.

3:57:53So I mean, I think that's also saying

3:57:54that we are serious about this building.

3:57:57But we've also heard that to take it any further,

3:58:01it requires more.

3:58:04And by what we've heard from the private sector already,

3:58:07it's challenging to use the building in its current state,

3:58:13but there's still a lot of potential there.

3:58:15And I think that we owe it to the community

3:58:18and to the people who have done a lot of the work

3:58:20over the past eight years in this building

3:58:23to explore that potential use.

3:58:26And finally, like I think there's a lot of creative energy

3:58:33that could be applied to this space.

3:58:35You know, there's potential as an art center,

3:58:38as a cultural center,

3:58:40and I don't wanna speak for my colleagues

3:58:42who have helped input into this,

3:58:44but even for our local business community

3:58:46to be part of this process.

3:58:48And I think it's a real opportunity.

3:58:51And finally, I think, you know,

3:58:55what I hope for this is that we kind of come

3:58:59to the end of the process.

3:59:00We decide, okay, we're going to invest in the drill hall.

3:59:04This is the moment and it's going to be this,

3:59:07and we provide that clear direction to staff,

3:59:09or we absolutely know now that it's not gonna go ahead.

3:59:13So that's the work that I've done.

3:59:16And I hope you consider these motions

3:59:21today, thanks.

3:59:24Okay, and I want to confirm that we did have a seconder

3:59:26with Councillor Kerron.

3:59:29So questions, I had Councillor Gow,

3:59:31I think Councillor Kerron.

3:59:34Thank you, and through you, Chair,

3:59:36thank you, Councillor Klassin.

3:59:38I'm very happy to support this.

3:59:39I did want some clarity about the second motion.

3:59:44The staff report indicates that the cost to renovate

3:59:47the drill hall would be $7.4 million,

3:59:49and they estimate that the city would have to provide

3:59:51$2.5 million of that.

3:59:53So to be clear, does the second motion that's on the floor,

3:59:58does that then direct staff to put $2.5 million

4:00:02from the 2026 budget towards the drill hall?

4:00:05I'm just trying to understand what we're asking exactly.

4:00:11Thanks for the question.

4:00:13Through you, Madam Chair, to Councillor Goller,

4:00:17the language has been suggested.

4:00:19It's not prescriptive with regard to dollar amounts.

4:00:24So there needs to be further,

4:00:27the Visibility Report identifies, and staff can jump in,

4:00:31that Visibility Report identifies cost

4:00:34for developing an institution that is run in whole

4:00:38by the city.

4:00:39So that would mean completely redeveloping the building

4:00:42with capital from the city.

4:00:45And so this language is a little bit more open

4:00:50where we are looking to identify sources of capital

4:00:53that are not just within the city budget.

4:00:56So looking potentially at the province,

4:00:59looking at federal funding as well.

4:01:02If you look into the feasibility study as well,

4:01:05a lot of the operational dollars,

4:01:08and I know I said operational,

4:01:10and I know we're talking about capital,

4:01:12but I think that it's a good point,

4:01:14is that there's mixed funding at multiple levels.

4:01:19So for the arts center,

4:01:21so there's a in the feasibility study,

4:01:23there's four different comparator art centers,

4:01:26and they all have various funding sources.

4:01:29So there's funding from the municipal government,

4:01:33the provincial government, the federal government,

4:01:34and as well as the private sector

4:01:36in the form of things like capital,

4:01:39capital annual capital projects,

4:01:41and other sources of income.

4:01:44So my hope with this is that we would be doing

4:01:47a robust look at what might be available

4:01:50to run a project of this nature,

4:01:55but not necessarily as a council at this juncture,

4:02:00providing that specific number,

4:02:02because I think that we need to have some room

4:02:05for flexibility at this point.

4:02:09Thank you very much, councillor Gals,

4:02:10and I really appreciate that.

4:02:12And if I could just ask the question of staff

4:02:16with the motions that are on the floor,

4:02:21what would it look like?

4:02:23How would you go about that step too

4:02:25in terms of doing the research

4:02:27and involving the community or not for that process?

4:02:32So through the chair,

4:02:33I would not foresee us doing further involvement

4:02:36with the community.

4:02:37That's what this feasibility study did.

4:02:39If this motion were to pass,

4:02:41and obviously there's a connection through to the mayor's,

4:02:45the mayoral direction on the budget,

4:02:46and we would need to work with him on that.

4:02:50But we would take this away and look to see

4:02:52if there were other sources of capital funding,

4:02:55for example, grants,

4:02:57if we think that there's potential for sponsorship,

4:02:59but we would bring that forward as,

4:03:01we would look at sort of different models,

4:03:03and then we would bring that forward

4:03:04through the budget process.

4:03:06First, obviously for the mayor's consideration,

4:03:08and then to come forward to all of council.

4:03:10And it could be a model,

4:03:12and I don't wanna pull numbers out of the air right now,

4:03:14so I won't, where there was,

4:03:16this portion came from the city,

4:03:18and this portion is presumed to be coming

4:03:20from other levels of government,

4:03:21and we would then issue any sort of open call based on that.

4:03:27So I think it's a little bit premature,

4:03:30but we would need to take that away

4:03:32and work that through.

4:03:33But no, we have completed the feasibility study,

4:03:36and I just wanna be clear,

4:03:38we would not be intending to go back out

4:03:40and have further community conversations

4:03:41until we got to the point of having that open proposal.

4:03:46That is very helpful.

4:03:47Thank you very much.

4:03:47I will be happy to support this motion

4:03:49to keep this building in the public space.

4:03:52Thank you, Chair.

4:03:55Thank you, Councillor Caron.

4:03:57Just thank you, Chair Downer.

4:04:00I do have some comments afterwards,

4:04:02but I did wanna amend motion too.

4:04:04As the mover, Councillor Clausson, said,

4:04:07it may be redundant,

4:04:08but I think that there's value in restating it,

4:04:11but the mayor did give some budget direction this morning

4:04:14on staff working to identify potential sources

4:04:17of capital funding.

4:04:19And this motion asked the mayor to add that

4:04:23to his mayoral direction.

4:04:25So it's a very slight amendment,

4:04:27saying that Council supports the mayoral direction

4:04:30that was given this morning to investigate those funds.

4:04:34So it's a minor amendment,

4:04:36and I'll ask for a seconder.

4:04:37I believe the mayor has seconded.

4:04:40And then once the amendment has been voted on,

4:04:43I do have some comments as well.

4:04:45Okay, is there a seconder for that motion?

4:04:49Mio-Gretri?

4:04:50Yeah.

4:04:52Can you do that?

4:04:55Anyway, is there any question or comment on that?

4:04:58So...

4:04:59I support myself, yeah.

4:05:00Okay, is there any opposition to that amendment?

4:05:04Okay, so that passes.

4:05:07Okay.

4:05:09I had a long narrative here,

4:05:10and I know I don't wanna use up my five minutes.

4:05:13So I've just distilled it down to five main points.

4:05:16First, I wanna thank the mover,

4:05:17Councillor Klossin, for bringing forward the recommendations.

4:05:22I think we have a unique opportunity here.

4:05:24It's not just a once in a lifetime.

4:05:26I can't think of a singular property anywhere

4:05:28in the downtown that could potentially yield

4:05:30the same public benefit that this building does.

4:05:33So there's five main points I wanna make.

4:05:35And the first is that we have a designated building

4:05:38under the Ontario Heritage Act

4:05:40that we have already invested in

4:05:42because we have deemed it worthy of conservation

4:05:45as a cultural heritage asset.

4:05:47Number two, we know that adaptive reuse

4:05:50of heritage buildings for community use has proven,

4:05:52and lots of research to show,

4:05:54out of the Heritage Resources Centre

4:05:57and our own experience with the Guelphier Music Centre,

4:06:00the Boathouse, et cetera,

4:06:02that's proven to have positive economic development,

4:06:05tourism, commercial and social benefits.

4:06:08The third point, we have a longstanding

4:06:10and well-documented need going back to 2004

4:06:15with a feasibility study by the Arts Council

4:06:18of the need for community arts space.

4:06:20In fact, we used to run community arts programs

4:06:22decades ago to the Delhi Rec Centre.

4:06:25And I remember my children more than 30 years ago

4:06:29going to some of those programs.

4:06:31And not just community art space,

4:06:33we have a longstanding and well-documented need

4:06:37space for celebrating, sharing and conserving

4:06:40Indigenous knowledge, and the potential for that is here.

4:06:43Reconciliation has been on our agenda

4:06:46as part of our Indigenous framework.

4:06:47Here's our opportunity.

4:06:49We have the bicentennial coming.

4:06:51This is our opportunity.

4:06:53We also, number four, have a feasibility study

4:06:56that concludes that the Drill Hall is appropriate,

4:06:59is feasible for use as a community arts and cultural space

4:07:02and that it can be potentially functionally

4:07:06sustainable over the long term.

4:07:08We have a cultural plan, action plan.

4:07:11We have a, it is part of our strategic plan.

4:07:15It's embedded in our strategic plan.

4:07:17And my whole first page of notes was every single pillar

4:07:20of our strategic plan, from downtown to social infrastructure

4:07:25to hereditary retention, to investing in community space.

4:07:30It's embedded throughout our strategic plan.

4:07:33And finally, the affordability and the livability

4:07:37and the quality of life of all residents,

4:07:39including children, seniors, youth, housed, unhoused,

4:07:44minorities, differently abled,

4:07:46marginalized and racialized communities.

4:07:49All of those are key components of city building.

4:07:52And city building includes social infrastructure.

4:07:56So that's what we're doing today.

4:07:58That's why I'm supporting this wholeheartedly

4:08:00and I look forward in, and thank you to our delegations

4:08:02for sharing their visions.

4:08:04Cause I look forward to those visions becoming reality.

4:08:10Other, any, Councillor Allt and then Councillor Caden.

4:08:17Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie.

4:08:19Sorry, I'm in my car.

4:08:20I'm waiting to help a neighbor come back from hospital.

4:08:23He just had a hip operation.

4:08:26I am very, very happy to support this motion.

4:08:29I think it's fundamental to downtown revitalization.

4:08:33I think it also as, as Councillor Caron stated,

4:08:36it is, is elemental in the 200th anniversary of wealth.

4:08:40And there's many people that will be positively gleeful

4:08:43that there's something that can be looked forward to

4:08:45in that period.

4:08:47But there's other reasons as well.

4:08:48And I think one of the first ones is that I believe

4:08:50it was in 2011, at least two members of this council

4:08:54who were on council at that point,

4:08:56endorsed the idea of the, of retaining the drill hall

4:09:00in some form because of its heritage attributes,

4:09:03which had already been identified by Metrolinx

4:09:07when the province declared it a heritage structure worthy

4:09:11of preservation.

4:09:12Equally not to be lost is that this links Wyndham street.

4:09:16It links the new library all the way down to, to beyond

4:09:21the Metrolinx CN lines and provides a foundation

4:09:24for economic tourism.

4:09:26And not to be missed is the idea that we do have

4:09:29the capacity now for a true cultural center

4:09:33that recognizes indigeneity, which we should not lose.

4:09:37Similarly, it's a fun fact about Guelph.

4:09:39Guelph's main street at one point was actually the rail line

4:09:44leaving Guelph heading to Cambridge.

4:09:46That now you'll see if you go down Kent street

4:09:49is bordered on each side by Kent.

4:09:52This is a cultural center that is returning to Guelph's roots,

4:09:56something that is very important.

4:09:58So for this reason, I thank both the delegates

4:10:00and I thank the mover for having, having the wherewithal

4:10:04to point out that this matters.

4:10:06I'd also point out this is clearly a ward two day,

4:10:09both ward two counselors got in

4:10:11in the public service aspects of, of our meeting.

4:10:17Councillor Caton.

4:10:24Thank you.

4:10:26Through you chair, Downer.

4:10:27I just had a question for staff.

4:10:29And I spoke with the mover and I believe the intent

4:10:33for the culture component to contain

4:10:38like indigenous content.

4:10:40And I heard that from Councillor Caron as well.

4:10:44And I just wanted to clarify if staff will take that on

4:10:48as they're creating their RFP process, if this passes,

4:10:53or if that's something that we have to direct staff to do.

4:11:02Yeah, so certainly through the chair,

4:11:04as we bring this forward, first assuming these motions pass

4:11:07first through budget, the first would be that sort of business

4:11:10model or that proposal for how it's get considered

4:11:13through budget, but then if that, if that were to pursue

4:11:16beyond the budget step, and we were moving on to the step

4:11:20of issuing an RFP or some sort of looking for an open call,

4:11:24we would absolutely use our equity lens, including

4:11:28indigenous sort of considerations, I would say,

4:11:32when we look to develop that open call.

4:11:36Great, thank you very much.

4:11:38With that in mind, then I completely support these motions

4:11:41and I'll be voting for them.

4:11:46Are there any other comments or questions?

4:11:51Mayor Gretchen.

4:11:52Yeah, thank you.

4:11:53And just a heads up, I do have some additional motions

4:11:56for consideration after the bulk of this goes to Madam Chair.

4:12:00But yeah, I just want to say that for me,

4:12:03like from the beginning really, the crux of this issue

4:12:07is that we spent like $5 million on this building

4:12:11just like three years ago.

4:12:13And like there's just, to me it would be completely,

4:12:19it's kind of a darn if you do darn if you don't moment,

4:12:21but like we spent $5 million on this building,

4:12:25and then to basically say, you know,

4:12:26we're not gonna do anything with it now,

4:12:28it just, I can't go there.

4:12:30I just, I cannot go to that place.

4:12:33So yeah, it means that we're gonna have to try

4:12:35to figure out something as we move forward.

4:12:37And that's on capital at a minimum.

4:12:41And so, but I also wanted to say,

4:12:44it's gonna mean choices, right?

4:12:45Like, and that happens every year regardless.

4:12:48So it's not, I'm not telling you,

4:12:50telling council anything we don't already know.

4:12:52But it means some things are not gonna be in

4:12:55for something like this to get in, right?

4:12:58Because we did already defer a billion dollars.

4:13:05We already deferred a billion dollars in capital

4:13:08and infrastructure and renewal upgrades.

4:13:11So it, this is important.

4:13:14I think we're all nodding our head that this is important,

4:13:18but it just means that choices are gonna be coming, okay?

4:13:21So just, you know, be aware.

4:13:23And we as a group, as a team, we'll wade through that, okay?

4:13:26We'll do that when that moment comes.

4:13:29But I think I just would like to say thank you

4:13:31as Councillor Caron said, Councillor Klassen, you know,

4:13:37has championed this.

4:13:40And I think she's done a great job on that.

4:13:44Moving this forward with discussions

4:13:46with a lot of us and community too.

4:13:50I'm really glad that we did.

4:13:56Like I think, I don't even know I'm so sorry,

4:14:00but I felt the report was quite good.

4:14:03And so I just really appreciated that, how that landed.

4:14:08And I'm excited to actually just not have a building

4:14:13that's boarded up and costing $150,000 a year doing nothing.

4:14:18It's got, we gotta own it and we gotta move forward

4:14:23on something that's gonna be beneficial to the city.

4:14:26And so yeah, I'm really glad that I think,

4:14:31I think many of us are on the same page on this.

4:14:33And so anyways, we'll let you call the vote

4:14:36and then we'll, I don't know, I can too.

4:14:41So my just final comment would be, you know,

4:14:44it's Kudlow's Councillor Klassen for bringing this forward.

4:14:49I think it would be a missed opportunity for us

4:14:51to not go as far as we can with this building.

4:14:57And as Councillor Caron says, this has been on the books

4:15:01for many, many, many, many years

4:15:03to have some kind of a cultural center.

4:15:04We have an opportunity, a synergy here.

4:15:08And I just keep been thinking for the last couple of weeks

4:15:11of, you know, other missed opportunities in the city,

4:15:15namely the post office and how that was once to be the library

4:15:19and it would have been a Main Street library.

4:15:20And so I sort of think of those lost opportunities

4:15:24and there's been others that this would go down

4:15:27in the city books as one of those,

4:15:29if we did not pursue something that has been on the books

4:15:34for a long time in our city and would cost us,

4:15:37because it's on the books, down the road at some point,

4:15:41a lot more than this, because we've already invested

4:15:44the money and this is something I do think

4:15:47we can get community partners for.

4:15:48And I was happy to see the mixed juice in there

4:15:50because that brings even more partners

4:15:53that it could be parts of an art center

4:15:56and something else as well.

4:16:01So I will call their vote.

4:16:03Is there anyone opposed to the motion?

4:16:08Seeing none, that does pass unanimously.

4:16:10Thank you.

4:16:11And Mayor Guthrie, you have some follow up motions.

4:16:14Yeah, thank you.

4:16:15I don't have a seconder, so I'll make my.

4:16:17Or a point of order.

4:16:19Go ahead.

4:16:20Go ahead.

4:16:21I just, I wanted to clarify, did we pass both motion one,

4:16:24two and three as part of that vote as amended?

4:16:29So the all three of them can't.

4:16:34Yes.

4:16:35Okay.

4:16:35Thank you.

4:16:36Yes, we did.

4:16:37Perfect. Thanks.

4:16:38Thanks for the clarification.

4:16:43Madam Chair, is that okay if I take the phone out?

4:16:45Thank you.

4:16:47So, shouldn't surprise anybody.

4:16:50I'm trying to think of the box a little bit,

4:16:52but still maintain everything that we just did.

4:16:55Okay. So everything that we just passed,

4:16:57I want to try to keep, not try, I want to keep that.

4:17:01But one of the permissions that's not available there

4:17:04right now is the permission for residential.

4:17:08And there can be, there can be opportunities

4:17:13for potential residential there

4:17:15if we get permissions from the province.

4:17:17So I'd like to, I'd like to just put the motions on the,

4:17:22the motion on the, on there.

4:17:23I'll read it out here that the chief administrative officer

4:17:26be directed to advocate to the provincial government

4:17:28for the necessary permissions to allow residential development

4:17:31at this site.

4:17:33And if necessary, permissions are not obtained

4:17:36or if no potential development proposals are received

4:17:38by September 30th, 2025,

4:17:40that no further staff time to advocate

4:17:42for these permissions is required.

4:17:43Basically a six month like kind of window.

4:17:46Okay. I don't want to prolong it.

4:17:48And, and I just want to be very clear.

4:17:50It's keeping the structure.

4:17:52It's keeping the structure of the heritage,

4:17:54everything about it.

4:17:56There, there can be ways, I think,

4:17:59of ability to do residential above it

4:18:02by maintaining the heritage structure.

4:18:04And, you know, I saw a stop there.

4:18:08I have lots more to say,

4:18:09but I would need a seconder, so I'll just be quiet.

4:18:12Okay. Councillor Boussatilla,

4:18:14you okay with that chair downer?

4:18:16Councillor Boussatilla?

4:18:17Councillor Boussatilla is seconding it.

4:18:18Yeah. Okay. Thank you so much.

4:18:20So I'll just continue a little bit.

4:18:21So I don't know if it's doable.

4:18:23I don't, I have, I don't know if this is doable,

4:18:26but I think we owe it to at least ask.

4:18:29And if the, if the answer comes back and it's no,

4:18:31I, that's fine.

4:18:32We still are doing everything that we just agreed to do.

4:18:34Keep it, you know, get fine, try to find some capital,

4:18:37try to find some operating, do another RFP.

4:18:39That's fine.

4:18:40I often hear about artists and those in arts

4:18:47that have difficult finding places to live.

4:18:49We could create an RFP if we got the permissions back

4:18:54to make it affordable housing as an example.

4:18:57So I don't know what the heights would be.

4:19:00That could all come back.

4:19:01That could all come back to us for,

4:19:02because we're in charge.

4:19:03We would be in charge of what the RFP position would be,

4:19:06would be like if we get those permissions.

4:19:09But I would love to just at least have the ability

4:19:13to look people in the eye and say,

4:19:15we also asked to see if some residential permissions

4:19:17could be here.

4:19:18And if it's a no go, that's fine.

4:19:20Then at least we can say we asked.

4:19:23If it was possible, and if the stars aligned,

4:19:26and we could also do residential above it,

4:19:28now we are, now we are turning an underperforming asset

4:19:32from a revenue perspective into a performing asset

4:19:35that would start to actually year over year in perpetuity,

4:19:38bring property tax dollars to that site.

4:19:41And so I would like us to at least explore it with the CAO

4:19:45and me advocating to the province to see if it's doable.

4:19:49And if it's not, it's not.

4:19:51And that's what my motion is.

4:19:54I'll stop right there.

4:19:56Thank you.

4:19:57Councillor Corrine.

4:19:59Yes, thank you.

4:20:01A question about the motion to the mover,

4:20:04it said provincial government.

4:20:06And it is my understanding that the regulations

4:20:09that prevent us from exploring residential

4:20:12are Metrolinx.

4:20:14So do you want to clarify that?

4:20:17Should we add Metrolinx to the motion?

4:20:19What do you think about the amendment?

4:20:24I can see staff wanting to jump in.

4:20:26I'm happy to say it,

4:20:27but maybe you'll best hear from staff.

4:20:29So through Chair Downer,

4:20:32it's our understanding that that is a provincial agency.

4:20:34And so we would take that, take the wording as is

4:20:37and not need to specify the actual name of the entities.

4:20:41Yeah, we'd be at the provincial level of government.

4:20:43That's right.

4:20:44That's good.

4:20:45And just as a comment, I do agree it's worth exploring.

4:20:51I have reservations about the challenges of building up

4:20:54and into a larger structure above the existing structure,

4:20:58just due to the heritage elements

4:21:00and the structural work we've done.

4:21:01But the idea of live work studios within an art center

4:21:06requires some residential permissions.

4:21:09So I think at that level,

4:21:10there's some merit to the motions.

4:21:14Thank you.

4:21:17Okay. Are there any other questions?

4:21:18Councillor Caton.

4:21:22Thank you. Through you, Chair Downer.

4:21:24I have a question to staff.

4:21:26Can you explain what the current rules

4:21:30from Metrolinx kind of state

4:21:32as to why residential is not allowed there?

4:21:39Through the mayor, through Councillor Caton.

4:21:41Our understanding is that Metrolinx

4:21:44does have development guidelines

4:21:47that do restrict development

4:21:50that's too close to the rails due to potential rail

4:21:56trained derailments.

4:21:56So they have different setbacks

4:21:59for different kinds of buildings.

4:22:02So we would have to take a look at what we'd like to build

4:22:06or what we'd like to propose

4:22:07and then explore that with Metrolinx.

4:22:13Thank you. Second question.

4:22:19This is to staff.

4:22:20Given how many complaints we get from other residential

4:22:23that is close to tracks,

4:22:28is what kind of impact do you think this is gonna have

4:22:32on bylaw and noise complaints

4:22:34and other kind of residential feedback

4:22:38residential were to be in that location?

4:22:43Through the mayor to Council,

4:22:44Katen that's something we'd have to take a look at.

4:22:46One of the things that as you look through,

4:22:48I just took a quick look through the development guidelines

4:22:51for Metrolinx and one of the things that they do look at,

4:22:54the other things they do look at other than proximity

4:22:57to the rail lines is also air quality and a noise.

4:23:01So they're concerned about that too.

4:23:02So we would have to somehow demonstrate

4:23:05that we were going to mitigate those concerns.

4:23:09The issue with this is that the building is existing.

4:23:12So if this was a new development,

4:23:13there would be opportunities to put in things

4:23:16like crash walls or noise attenuation walls

4:23:19or things like that.

4:23:21Because this is an existing building,

4:23:23those possibilities might be somewhat limited,

4:23:27but we'd have to take a look at it

4:23:29because we haven't looked at it for this site yet.

4:23:32We'd also have to do from a planning perspective,

4:23:35look at the zoning of that site as well

4:23:36because right now it's not zoned residential.

4:23:41Thanks, final question.

4:23:43So with the zoning change,

4:23:45would that be reopening our official plan?

4:23:48Would that, how would that process work?

4:23:54Through the Mayor to Council, Kate,

4:23:55and what we could do is come back to you

4:23:57with just a process of what that looks like.

4:23:59It would be an official plan amendment

4:24:01and a zoning bylaw amendment.

4:24:04So we would have to go through the planning process

4:24:07to complete that just like we would with any other,

4:24:11any one of those planning processes.

4:24:15And I'm sorry, I lied.

4:24:16This is my final question now.

4:24:18So if we were to do that and go through the process,

4:24:22would public feedback be a part of that process

4:24:25before any changes were made?

4:24:27Through the chair to Council, Kate and Edward.

4:24:30Okay, thank you very much.

4:24:33Thank you, Councillor Allt, did you have a question?

4:24:39You're muted.

4:24:40You're muted.

4:24:42Councillor Allt, we can't hear you.

4:24:50No, we can't hear you, Councillor Allt.

4:24:54Councillor Allt, we can't hear you.

4:24:57Can you hear me now?

4:24:58Yes.

4:24:59Can you hear me now?

4:25:00Perfect. Yes, I can.

4:25:02Okay, I was plugged into the car.

4:25:04I'm actually going to speak in favor of the motion.

4:25:07When I originally saw it,

4:25:08I was a bit concerned that it was implying

4:25:10that it would be residential

4:25:12as a substitution for a cultural arts center.

4:25:16But the way that the mayor explained it,

4:25:19it makes perfect sense to examine co-op lofts

4:25:23or possibly live work units,

4:25:26the type of which that he's talked about.

4:25:29There might be some incredible impediments to it,

4:25:31but the short runway that has also been provided

4:25:35makes this something that is not,

4:25:37something that will delay a potential cultural center,

4:25:40but will actually expedite what it could be

4:25:43and seeks an original use for it

4:25:46that also complements the need for housing.

4:25:50Okay, thank you.

4:25:51Are there any other comments or questions?

4:25:53I'm going to go right to the question then.

4:25:56Is there anyone opposed to the motion?

4:26:01Seeing none, that passes.

4:26:03Boy, we're in a lot of agreement today.

4:26:08And that's it then I think.