Committee of the Whole

6:24All right, good afternoon everyone.

6:26I'd like to call our committee meeting to order.

6:29Thank you very much for joining us.

6:32And it is September the 6th, 2023.

6:36As I said, this is our committee meeting.

6:37It's just after 1.30.

6:40And right off the top, we have our closed agenda

6:45that's in front of us to consider.

6:47And I'm looking for a motion for council

6:50to direct us to go in for a closed discussion

6:53on what's titled on the open agenda here,

6:57Downtown Riverfront Park Acquisition Plan.

7:00And that is under section 239-2C of the Municipal Act

7:04relating to proposed or pending acquisition

7:07or disposition of land by the municipality or local board.

7:13That is the only item that's on our closed for this.

7:17And I was wondering, I got councillor Goller

7:20that would be happy to move it.

7:22And Colson would be happy to second it.

7:26Would anybody like to discuss that manner anything further?

7:31I don't hear or see anything.

7:32So I will call the vote.

7:33Is anyone against moving enclosed for that subject?

7:37Don't hear or see anything.

7:39So I will call that vote over with that's unanimous.

7:43And for those watching online or seeing this later,

7:48we will just have a closed meeting of council

7:50to discuss this privately,

7:51but we will come back when done.

7:53I'll give a high level summary at that time.

7:55So council, let's move into closed.

48:09All right, good afternoon everybody.

48:11And especially those kind of waiting around,

48:13wondering where we are.

48:14I apologize on behalf of council.

48:16We did go into a closed session earlier.

48:20And this is where I would give my high level summary.

48:22Not much to summarize right now, because we're not finished.

48:28We are gonna come back after our open session

48:32to discuss further the item that we went closed.

48:35So there's no summary right now, one will be later.

48:38So thank you very much for that.

48:40And now I will call the meeting order officially

48:43for this meeting.

48:45And I am just going to start by muting for a moment.

48:59There we go, I found the right paperwork.

49:04Let's stand as we recognize, oh Canada, thank you.

50:35Great, thank you.

50:36And as we continue,

50:36we'll just have a moment of silent reflection.

50:47Great, thank you.

50:49And as we gather, we are reminded that Guelph is situated

50:52on treaty land that is steeped in rich indigenous history

50:55and home to many First Nations in mateable today.

50:58As a city, we have a responsibility for the stewardship

51:01of the land in which we both live and work.

51:04So today we acknowledge the Mississaugas

51:06or the Credit First Nation,

51:07the Initiative Back Peoples

51:08on whose traditional territory we are meeting.

51:12Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest

51:14or any general nature there of the items

51:15in front of us here today, Council?

51:18Hearing and seeing none, we'll move past that then.

51:22And we will jump right into some great staff recognitions,

51:27but I am going to ask Chair O'Rourke, please,

51:31to go ahead with those recognitions, go right ahead.

51:35Mayor Guthrie.

51:37So on behalf of Council, it's my pleasure

51:39to recognize the following city staff members

51:42on their recent designations and certification.

51:45First off, I'd like to congratulate Babawali Okei,

51:50engineering records technician

51:51in the city's engineering and transportation department

51:55on earning the Project Management Institute's

51:57Project Management Professional Certification, or the PMP.

52:02This is the world's leading

52:03Project Management Certification.

52:05This industry recognized certification

52:07is based on project lifestyle leadership

52:10from initiating to planning, executing, monitoring,

52:13and closing the project.

52:14Project management professionals

52:16have demonstrated experience, knowledge,

52:18and outstanding performance

52:20in achieving organizational objectives

52:22through defining and overseeing projects and resources.

52:25Congratulations on achieving this milestone

52:29in your career, Babawali.

52:30That's awesome.

52:37So we are also recognizing today Phil McIntyre,

52:40supervisor lab service and environmental compliance

52:43in the Wastewater Services Division

52:45of Environmental Services

52:47for successfully achieving the designation

52:49of Certified Engineering Technologist

52:52from the Ontario Association

52:53of Certified Engineering Technicians and Technologists.

52:57Phil's pursuit for higher education

52:59speaks to his commitment to this industry

53:01and his passion for the job he performs each and every day.

53:04Phil is and has been a consummate professional

53:08taking on multiple acting role opportunities,

53:10mentoring, and coaching the staff he leads

53:13while continuing to ensure environmental compliance

53:15is adhered to throughout the city of Guelph.

53:18Thank you, Phil, for all that you contribute

53:20and congratulations to you both

53:22on these amazing achievements.

53:24Mayor Guthrie is gonna join me for photos

53:27and by the backdrop.

53:29So if you'd like to join us, please, congratulations again.

55:33Great, thank you, Chair O'Rourke.

55:36And so let's keep moving through here.

55:40And up next is my service area for governance.

55:45And we have a couple of items that we need to go through.

55:49The first one on the strong mayor powers

55:52and the governance overview of that,

55:54especially as it goes with our procedural bylaw.

55:56And the second one is the 2024 to 2027

56:01City Council committee and meeting schedules.

56:05So let's start with, obviously,

56:08the updates resulting from the extension of strong mayors.

56:13Now that we have no delegations for that,

56:17nor do we have any for the committee.

56:18So let me ask everyone here, does anyone, it's on consent.

56:23Does anyone need to have them pulled?

56:25If not, we can just move a motion on consent.

56:28Okay, it looks like I can do consent.

56:30Linda, sorry, Councillor Pusantil will move for us.

56:33Second, Councillor Coller,

56:36is there anything further on those items?

56:39Hearing and seeing nothing further,

56:40I'll call the vote, is anyone against?

56:43Not hearing anything.

56:45Okay, those are passed.

56:46Thank you very much.

56:49We will now move to a presentation

56:54onto the third item for governance,

56:56which is the Refresh Territorial Acknowledgement.

57:00And so we're gonna have a couple presentations

57:03from our staff and how this came forward.

57:08And I'll turn it over to you.

57:10And thank you very much for coming and doing it.

57:13Go right ahead.

57:27It was, okay, now it's green.

57:30Thank you.

57:31Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie and Council.

57:34I'm here today with my colleagues, Kim Krojczyk,

57:36Manager of Policy and Intergovernmental Relations

57:39and Dawn Ovan, Curator with Guelph Museums,

57:42to present to you today the Refresh Territorial Acknowledgement

57:45for the City of Guelph for your approval.

57:51Over the past year, we have worked together internally

57:53across departments and with external partners

57:56to bring this presentation to you today.

57:59This year long journey we undertook

58:01was just as important as the final words

58:03that we are presenting to you today

58:04in our Refresh Territorial Acknowledgement.

58:07Today we hope to take you on a condensed version

58:09of this journey.

58:11The city's territorial acknowledgement is established

58:14with different intent than the traditional custom

58:16of many First Nations, as we described in the report.

58:20What we present today acknowledges

58:23that the lands where Guelph is situated

58:24had a rich history, culture and governance structure,

58:28which existed long before settler contact.

58:31We began this process thinking it was a relatively simple task

58:35of adjusting a few phrases to improve

58:36the historical accuracy and recognition.

58:39Through input and consultation, we quickly realized

58:42that there was much more depth and importance

58:44to the words that we bring before you today.

58:46And as we move through our journey,

58:48we listened, reflected, unlearned and reflected some more.

58:52We opened our hearts and mind, and I can say with certainty

58:55that each of us involved in this process

58:57felt a roller coaster of emotions.

59:01There is a heaviness of responsibility

59:03and also the satisfaction of having started the journey

59:05of learning and relationship building.

59:08Each word we have included is significant and intentional,

59:12reflecting our commitment to building

59:14and strengthening relationships

59:16and moving forward on the journey of reconciliation.

59:31So the museum is entrusted to represent

59:34the full and truthful stories of our community

59:36from perspectives as plentiful and diverse

59:39as the community itself, and to amplify voices

59:42that have traditionally been underrepresented.

59:45As such, the museum had a role to play in the process

59:48that led to the city's 2016 territory acknowledgement.

59:53The Truth and Reconciliation Commission's report

59:55and the 94 Calls to Action released in 2015

59:59ignited action within the museum and the city

1:00:02to extend deep in and make new relationships

1:00:06with the local indigenous community,

1:00:09and to set our commitment to learning

1:00:11and sharing all historical truths

1:00:13of the place we call Guelph.

1:00:15The Calls to Action centered the importance

1:00:18of collaboration with indigenous peoples and communities.

1:00:22The museum hosted a blanket exercise

1:00:24for city staff and council created

1:00:26by the Aboriginal Rights Coalition.

1:00:29The blanket exercise uses indigenous methodologies

1:00:32to help rather to build understanding

1:00:35about our shared history as indigenous

1:00:37and non-indigenous peoples in Canada

1:00:40by walking participants through the experience

1:00:43of pre-contact, treaty making, colonization,

1:00:47and resistance.

1:00:49The blanket exercise centers truth before reconciliation.

1:00:54As colleagues in this work, Guelph museums

1:00:57and the city of Guelph understood

1:00:59that the 2016 territorial acknowledgement

1:01:02was one part of a continuous journey toward reconciliation.

1:01:07Centered in truth and an ongoing commitment

1:01:10to nurturing relationships,

1:01:12both with the people and the land,

1:01:15in the place we call Guelph.

1:01:23The 2016 territorial acknowledgement

1:01:25was the first iteration of where the city understood itself

1:01:28to be in its understanding of reconciliation.

1:01:36As I stepped into my new role as senior advisor,

1:01:39I had received a letter from Six Nations of the Grand River

1:01:42that highlighted the historical complexity of this region

1:01:45and the complexity of our relationships

1:01:47with indigenous communities.

1:01:49This was the start of my personal learning journey

1:01:51around the importance of the territorial acknowledgement

1:01:54and the history of the place we now call Guelph.

1:01:58Even before engagement for the refresh had started,

1:02:02we heard from the community

1:02:03that our territorial acknowledgement

1:02:04and related information on the website

1:02:07held in historical inaccuracies through omission.

1:02:11We also heard that the words felt sterile

1:02:13and lacked any real emotion

1:02:14and that the acknowledgement felt more like a checkbox exercise

1:02:18rather than holding any true meaning.

1:02:20And so together with my colleagues,

1:02:21we initiated the first of many engagement sessions

1:02:24to address what we had heard.

1:02:26We received input from those you can see listed on the slide.

1:02:30Above, the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation

1:02:33and Six Nations of the Grand River Elected Council

1:02:35provided us with an overview

1:02:36of the complex history of this region.

1:02:39And we learned about the rich culture and legacy

1:02:41of the many nations they call this region home.

1:02:45We took a day to visit Ekina Magaya-Gamik,

1:02:48the Lodge of Learning,

1:02:49to learn more about history and governance.

1:02:52And we spoke to local community members

1:02:54for the need for accuracy and representation

1:02:57of those who continue to call this place home

1:03:00and those whose personal journeys brought them here

1:03:02from other places.

1:03:04Mostly we learned that we have much more listening,

1:03:06understanding and learning to do in order to move forward

1:03:10and that that responsibility was ours.

1:03:19With this guidance in hand,

1:03:20we took the time to listen, reflect and learn.

1:03:23Dr. Waykamp at the University of Guelph

1:03:25was most gracious in getting us started

1:03:27with resources to read and watch,

1:03:29which led to more reading questions and reflections.

1:03:32Some of those documents and articles are listed here,

1:03:35which I encourage you to read in your time.

1:03:38We also contacted surrounding municipalities

1:03:40and the universities and asked local organizations

1:03:43about their engagement and processes

1:03:45to ensure we were using best practices.

1:03:52Through this process, we took the time

1:03:54to understand the complex histories

1:03:55and relationships between nations,

1:03:58to learn the meanings of the terms we used

1:04:00and to ensure we use them correctly.

1:04:02We took note that First Nations did not just exist

1:04:05in some distance past, but are very much present

1:04:07and an important part of the future.

1:04:10We noted that pronunciation matters

1:04:12as does language and grammar.

1:04:14Through this entire process,

1:04:16we also took the time to step back and reflect,

1:04:18to further our knowledge based on the information

1:04:20and inputs we gathered

1:04:22and to understand how to best proceed.

1:04:29Most significantly, we learned about the importance

1:04:31of being personally involved

1:04:33and connected to the words spoken and acknowledgement.

1:04:36We asked ourselves questions like,

1:04:38what is our relationship to the land as individuals,

1:04:41staff members, and as a city?

1:04:43How do we benefit from this relationship

1:04:45and where are we in the journey to reconciliation?

1:04:48And even before we put a single word to paper,

1:04:50we reflected deeply on these questions.

1:04:52And so partway through the journey we pivoted

1:04:55and we realized the end goal was not just

1:04:56a refreshed territorial acknowledgement,

1:04:58but this was part of a journey towards reconciliation.

1:05:02And so what did we learn and where did this take us?

1:05:05We now have a better understanding

1:05:07of how important learning and education is

1:05:09for the city to move forward

1:05:10and incorporating reconciliation in our daily work.

1:05:14We have arrived at strengthened relationships,

1:05:17building, relationship building through engagement.

1:05:20It is important to clarify that obtaining full support

1:05:22from indigenous communities was not the intention

1:05:25or outcome we sought.

1:05:26We focused however on strong collaboration

1:05:29and gathering inputs from both our treaty partners

1:05:31and indigenous natives.

1:05:33These relationships are of vital importance

1:05:35as we advance reconciliation.

1:05:37It is important to remember that the territorial acknowledgement

1:05:39was created for the city and is used by the city

1:05:42as a way to acknowledge the history

1:05:44and traditional uses of this land.

1:05:47And finally, as we present the territorial acknowledgement

1:05:49today, we want to make sure we can reflect

1:05:51the evolution of guide direction

1:05:54by ensuring this remains a living process

1:05:56open for reflection and revisions.

1:06:06And so now we would just like to take a pause

1:06:09with the meeting and allow for each of you

1:06:11to read and reflect on the refresh territorial acknowledgement

1:06:14that you have in front of you.

1:06:16I encourage each of you to read the words with intention,

1:06:19acknowledging their purpose, their meaning, and their impact.

1:06:50The acknowledgement you just read

1:06:52represents phase one of our process.

1:06:55It's intended to be used in formal settings

1:06:57such as these as we're here today

1:06:59where decisions are being made.

1:07:01We are also committed to establishing

1:07:03a second phase to this process.

1:07:06This additional phase will provide an opportunity

1:07:08to speak about a more personal connection land.

1:07:11This more personal version would be used

1:07:13in more informal settings,

1:07:15such as being out in the community

1:07:16where no decisions are being made.

1:07:18Phase two will also be accompanied by training,

1:07:21learning, and guidance to support staff and council

1:07:24when using this extended option.

1:07:31Reconciliation is both an ongoing and non-linear process

1:07:35with no defined end.

1:07:37The city is committed to reconciliation

1:07:40and continues to advance initiatives

1:07:42such as the selection of the sacred fire site

1:07:44in Royal City Park,

1:07:46hosting sharing circles with indigenous communities,

1:07:49and now with the process

1:07:50to refresh the territorial acknowledgement.

1:07:53While these initiatives show progress

1:07:55and a commitment to working together,

1:07:57our journey must continue forwards.

1:07:59And that's why on September 20th,

1:08:01staff in partnership with the organization Kairos

1:08:04will be facilitating a blanket exercise workshop

1:08:07with council.

1:08:08Just as Dawn spoke about the museum's experience

1:08:11with the blanket exercise,

1:08:13this will be an important and immersive hands-on experience

1:08:17to help build knowledge and understanding

1:08:20of indigenous histories and current experiences.

1:08:24Given the city's desire to continue advancing reconciliation

1:08:28through learning, knowledge, and understanding,

1:08:30we are also in the process of initiating the city's

1:08:33indigenous relations framework

1:08:35to guide the next chapter in our journey.

1:08:42The indigenous relations framework

1:08:44will be undertaken with the guidance of a consultant

1:08:46and the input and collaboration

1:08:48from our indigenous treaty partners,

1:08:50neighbors, and community members.

1:08:53The framework will provide guidance and structure

1:08:55to the city to improve indigenous relations

1:08:57and reconciliation as part of an organization-wide effort.

1:09:01It also creates the foundation for the city to adopt actions

1:09:05from international and national documents

1:09:07such as the Truth in Reconciliation calls to action

1:09:10and the United Nations Declaration

1:09:12on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples.

1:09:14This framework will help identify where Guelph

1:09:16can adopt changes or take action to work towards achieving

1:09:20a shared vision for the city's indigenous relations.

1:09:23Currently, we are forecasted to be able to share

1:09:25this framework with you in 2024,

1:09:27in time for the National Day of Truth and Reconciliation

1:09:31in September.

1:09:33Now, before we turn this back over to all of you

1:09:35for further discussion,

1:09:36we wanted to close this presentation

1:09:38with a quote from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission

1:09:40of Canada, which you can see on the slide here.

1:09:43It helps to remind us why we're all here today

1:09:46and why we must continue and are committed

1:09:49to continue on the journey ahead.

1:09:51Thank you.

1:09:54Thank you so much to staff and all the partners involved

1:10:00in this refresh.

1:10:01I'm sure I speak on behalf of council

1:10:03that we appreciate the work that's gone into this.

1:10:07So thank you very much.

1:10:09I'm just gonna look to vice chair of governance,

1:10:13would you be willing to move the recommendation?

1:10:15So Councillor Bousintil will move it

1:10:18with someone who will be willing to second it.

1:10:19Thank you, Councillor Klassen.

1:10:22Is there any questions at all?

1:10:25Question, I'm gonna go to Gibson, Karan and then O'Rourke.

1:10:29Thank you.

1:10:31Yeah, thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:10:32Question for the presenter.

1:10:34Just the territorial acknowledgement.

1:10:37I understand the sensitivities of the topic we're discussing

1:10:40and I know means, I'm asking this from a place

1:10:44of wanting more knowledge.

1:10:47The term, we are guests here.

1:10:50Can I ask for some clarity?

1:10:52Simply because I know there will be many people

1:10:55in this city that call this place home

1:10:58and acknowledge this place as multi-generational home

1:11:01for them and their families.

1:11:04How does this message resonate with generations of people

1:11:09that would consider a wealth their home?

1:11:11And now we're being told we're guests.

1:11:17Yeah, through the mayor to Councillor Gibson,

1:11:20thank you for that question.

1:11:21And as we said, each and every word,

1:11:24we thought about this with great intent

1:11:27and thought process put into this.

1:11:30And as we learned more about the Indigenous ways of learning

1:11:33and being, their concept of ownership

1:11:36and not taking more than they need from the land

1:11:41was very much in the fore.

1:11:43And with that concept, and given the current state

1:11:48of our environment, we thought it was important

1:11:51to try to make that come through,

1:11:54that we are all guests on the land

1:11:57and that we need to treat it in the manner

1:11:59as you would a guest in somebody else's home.

1:12:02So regardless of whether you build your home here

1:12:05or multi-generational generations,

1:12:06I myself have four generations of families

1:12:10for over 30 years now.

1:12:12So that comment resonates with me as well.

1:12:17And I do consider this my home,

1:12:18but as such, I also would like to treat it

1:12:22with that same propriety in knowing

1:12:25that we preserve it for our future generations.

1:12:28Thank you. That's a great response.

1:12:31That's a great answer.

1:12:32I guess my follow-up question is,

1:12:34at the outset of the statement,

1:12:36we are recognizing that we collectively

1:12:39are meeting on historical Indigenous land.

1:12:44So we are acknowledging that we are settlers,

1:12:46we collectively are settlers

1:12:48and we're meeting on Indigenous land.

1:12:51It's a difficult transition to then say collectively

1:12:54all of society are guests here

1:12:56because I think we're insinuating that we are acknowledging

1:13:04we're meeting on traditional land,

1:13:05but then we as in all of society are guests to the land.

1:13:10Is there a way to create that distinction

1:13:13where the we, the second time we use we,

1:13:16is a much more inclusive of all people,

1:13:19our guests on the land,

1:13:20not just what many people will interpret

1:13:23to be newcomers to the land.

1:13:34Thanks through the mayor to Councillor Gibson.

1:13:36Yeah.

1:13:38So I think certainly this is the city's territorial

1:13:42acknowledgement and the person who is reading it

1:13:44gives this as they speak for themselves

1:13:47and the group they are gathered with.

1:13:49That's why you'll see the territorial acknowledgement

1:13:52has this potential to be extended

1:13:55in more less formal circumstances, frankly,

1:13:59where you can speak to your connection to the land

1:14:01and to the community if you have an Indigenous connection

1:14:05that is meaningful and you want to share it

1:14:07as part of the land, the territorial acknowledgement,

1:14:12that's perfectly fine.

1:14:14And so I think that's why we've found it appropriate

1:14:17to do sort of a phase one

1:14:19that we've worked carefully with our partners

1:14:22to ensure is respectful and appropriate

1:14:24for where we are right now

1:14:26and then leave some room for a more personal reflection

1:14:29of your connection to the land and the community.

1:14:36Okay.

1:14:37Maybe I'll just, my comments for the record,

1:14:39I would have preferred it to say we are all guests here.

1:14:43All members of society are guests on the land

1:14:45rather than what I believe seems to be an insinuation

1:14:49that only some of us are guests here.

1:14:51I'll leave it at that.

1:14:53I won't be voting against,

1:14:54but I would have preferred it to be a bit more

1:14:57of an inclusive comment that all members of society

1:15:00are guests on the land.

1:15:01But those are just my comments.

1:15:03Thank you.

1:15:06Thanks and through the mayor,

1:15:07we'll certainly take that away between here

1:15:08in the end of the month.

1:15:12Okay. Thank you so much.

1:15:15I believe Councillor Kerrion was next please.

1:15:20I appreciate the question and the any answer

1:15:22to the question that was just posed

1:15:24because I think it speaks to the reality

1:15:27that when we each use the acknowledgement.

1:15:32Councillor Kerrion, I'm so sorry to interrupt you.

1:15:34We're just having trouble hearing you in here.

1:15:36And I don't think it's you.

1:15:38I think it's been some audio issues already today

1:15:42a little bit.

1:15:43So maybe could you try moving a bit closer

1:15:45and just to see if you can speak up a bit more?

1:15:49Again, I'm sorry to ask you of that

1:15:50because I don't think it's you.

1:15:51There's been other audio things happening

1:15:53in the meeting here,

1:15:54but go ahead, I'll turn it back over to you.

1:15:56Sure. I'm actually right in front of my microphone and camera.

1:16:00So I'm not sure how much closer I can go.

1:16:05I can try turning off my video.

1:16:08No, you've already increased volume by about 25% there.

1:16:13So keep going. You're great.

1:16:14Okay. Great.

1:16:16I just want to thank our staff

1:16:18for the answer to previous Councillor's question

1:16:21because what it underlines to me

1:16:24is that the interpretation of our words

1:16:27is very personal and very intentional.

1:16:29And so this is leading to a question.

1:16:32I know that I have some Métis background in my family,

1:16:37but I was not raised in an Indigenous culture.

1:16:41So I don't feel that I can speak

1:16:43or reflect any Indigenous knowledge in my role

1:16:47as a Councillor or as a member of society.

1:16:50But what I do do is I phrase my words

1:16:55so that it is understood.

1:16:56And I certainly have always felt

1:16:58that even though 400 years later,

1:17:01I'm still a guest on this land

1:17:04and that I'm only here for, you know, God willing,

1:17:07I'm only here for 80 years.

1:17:08So I'm a temporary guest on this planet.

1:17:12And so I will speak words that allude to that relationship.

1:17:18So my question is along those lines

1:17:21is that this is an evolving process

1:17:23and my nature would have been to actually wordsmith

1:17:26the territorial knowledge

1:17:28to change all the we shoulds, to let S's

1:17:30and change some words.

1:17:31And then I stopped myself and said, no,

1:17:33no, this is a city acknowledgement.

1:17:35And some really great work by our staff

1:17:38is reflected in this recommendation

1:17:39and I'm not going to change a single word.

1:17:42But the staff have alluded to an evolutionary process

1:17:47and a process where there will be changes

1:17:50as we move forward for different types of events.

1:17:53And I'm just wondering now that this phase is complete,

1:17:57when is the timing for that next phase?

1:18:00When will phase three occur

1:18:02and how often will the acknowledgement be reviewed?

1:18:09Through you, Mr. Mayor and to Councillor Caron.

1:18:12In terms of timing for our second phase

1:18:14of the acknowledgement process

1:18:16that speaks more to the person's actions,

1:18:18we would be looking to really begin that phase

1:18:20with the blanket exercise on September 20th.

1:18:23So the workshop with really be able to kick off

1:18:26that secondary phase to enable us to undertake that learning,

1:18:32that training and that guidance

1:18:34to really start the process on that second piece.

1:18:37Okay, that's great.

1:18:38We enthusiastically supporting this recommendation.

1:18:43Great, thank you, Councillor.

1:18:47I believe my next Councillor on the list is O'Rourke.

1:18:52Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:18:52I have a very straightforward question.

1:18:55I'm just looking at the slide that talks about engagement.

1:18:58Sorry, it's jumping around here.

1:19:00And I don't see the Grand River Metis Council.

1:19:04And I'm just wondering if they've been engaged,

1:19:06like we do the little flag raising,

1:19:09they were amazing at the end of June

1:19:13at the First Nations celebration.

1:19:15And so we see them fairly regularly.

1:19:17And I'm just wondering what the level of engagement

1:19:19was with the Metis.

1:19:22Through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke,

1:19:24we did reach out to the Metis Council

1:19:26in our original round of engagements

1:19:29in September and October of 2022.

1:19:34At that time, they were going through elections

1:19:36and asked us to reach back out

1:19:37just to make sure we were speaking to the same council

1:19:41and elected folks.

1:19:43After that, we were not able to connect with them

1:19:45for a number of reasons on there.

1:19:48And there was some health issues

1:19:51or something else that went on.

1:19:53I did leave a number of emails with them.

1:19:55And so we do have a number of outreach attempts.

1:20:00But I have heard through others that they did read

1:20:04and received the emails that we did send them.

1:20:09Through you, Mr. Mayor, and to Councillor O'Rourke,

1:20:11we also had some engagement with the Metis Council

1:20:15in prior experiences, like Sara had described.

1:20:18And one of the pieces of feedback

1:20:20that we did receive from them is that

1:20:21while they enjoy being included,

1:20:24number of the different engagements we do

1:20:25on Indigenous relations,

1:20:27when it comes to the territorial acknowledgement,

1:20:29they don't have any land rights or land claims

1:20:32here in Ontario in this situation,

1:20:34and therefore did not feel like they should be included

1:20:37in the territorial acknowledgement specifically.

1:20:40Okay.

1:20:41So through you, Mayor Gathrop,

1:20:42they will be involved in other dimensions

1:20:44of our Indigenous framework.

1:20:46That's correct, yes.

1:20:47Thanks very much.

1:20:48Okay, and Claeson, please.

1:20:51Thank you, and through you, Mr. Mayor, to staff.

1:20:54Thank you for this work.

1:20:55This is hard, challenging work,

1:20:58and I often find myself confronted with it

1:21:01when making decisions here around the horseshoe,

1:21:03so I appreciate it.

1:21:05In the spirit of keeping it short,

1:21:09maybe this is a question to take away,

1:21:10but as a council, as we move forward

1:21:14towards reconciliation as a staff

1:21:16and with the territorial acknowledgement,

1:21:18and also the blanket exercise,

1:21:21my question is how else can we support?

1:21:24How else as a council can we support you,

1:21:28but also be more active in our role in reconciliation?

1:21:37Through Mayor Gathrop to Councillor Klassen,

1:21:39thank you very much for the support,

1:21:41and for your comments.

1:21:42We'll certainly be able to engage Council in a fulsome way

1:21:45as we work through the Indigenous relations framework,

1:21:47and our community celebrates many important days

1:21:52with the Indigenous community,

1:21:53one of which is at the end of this month,

1:21:55and so we'll make a point of sharing with you

1:21:58some opportunities to engage with our community

1:22:00and better understand from them and with them

1:22:03how they wish to be recognized,

1:22:05but certainly the Indigenous relations framework

1:22:07is another important milestone

1:22:09in working with our colleagues in human resources.

1:22:11We'll also look for training beyond the blanket exercise

1:22:14to continue to bring to council on this topic.

1:22:18Thank you, it's appreciated.

1:22:21Any resources to be shared, I think would be very helpful.

1:22:25Thank you.

1:22:27Great, thank you.

1:22:28Seeing nothing further off questions,

1:22:31would it be okay for me to call the vote,

1:22:35or would anyone like to say something before?

1:22:38It looks like I can call the vote.

1:22:39Oh, Erin, I'm sorry, Councillor Katelyn, sorry,

1:22:41go right ahead.

1:22:43No worries, through you to staff.

1:22:44I just wanted to say thank you very much.

1:22:46It was really great work.

1:22:47And I think it's important to recognize

1:22:50as non-Indigenous people,

1:22:52if that is your personal situation,

1:22:54that our feelings are not the important ones right now,

1:23:01and that centering the Indigenous community

1:23:03is the point of reconciliation.

1:23:06So I'm really glad that you did that,

1:23:08and I appreciate all of the hard work that went into it.

1:23:11Thank you.

1:23:13Thank you so much.

1:23:15Okay, I'll call the vote then.

1:23:16Is anyone against the refresh

1:23:19of this territorial acknowledgement?

1:23:22That is nobody, that is unanimous.

1:23:24Again, Ditto, thank you so much to everyone involved,

1:23:28we really appreciate it.

1:23:30Okay, I don't think I have any other

1:23:33further announcements at this time.

1:23:37Actually, yeah, I am gonna do a quick announcement

1:23:40at this time because,

1:23:42don't go yet, Councillor Downer,

1:23:44because you're gonna wanna stay for this one,

1:23:48because it looks like I'll have another chair

1:23:50actually adjourning our whole committee meeting tonight,

1:23:53so this is my only chance.

1:23:54So, Juan, I didn't know this until this morning.

1:24:01This is Juan's last day here with us.

1:24:05Yeah, does anyone wanna move a motion

1:24:07that he's not allowed to leave?

1:24:09Yeah, so I am gonna take this time

1:24:12on behalf of Council and the entire community,

1:24:14and I'm sure staff, everyone.

1:24:17Thank you so much for all you've done for us here.

1:24:20And I was pretty astonished to hear that you're leaving,

1:24:25and hey, I get it, I get it,

1:24:28and wishing you nothing but the best in another community

1:24:33that you're gonna rock it there,

1:24:36you're gonna bring so much knowledge there

1:24:39from here and adopt it in this new community

1:24:42that you're going to,

1:24:43we're gonna miss you, we're really gonna miss you,

1:24:46and just an absolute pleasure to be with you,

1:24:49and we wish you nothing but the best, Juan,

1:24:52and with that, let's just give,

1:24:56give Juan a huge round of applause

1:24:57for all you've done,

1:25:02and yeah, all the very, very best to you, okay?

1:25:05We really will be watching from afar.

1:25:08No one you're gonna do good work, okay?

1:25:12That's it from a governance point of view

1:25:14from me, everyone, thanks for letting me jump in on that.

1:25:17You're allowed to leave now, Councillor Downer.

1:25:20So let's just take a two to three minute break,

1:25:24kind of as we're switching over with the chairs here,

1:25:27and we are gonna move it over to Council,

1:25:31or sorry, Chair O'Rourke for, no, not you, is it?

1:25:42No, you missed it.

1:25:44It was moved on consent, and no questions asked,

1:25:47no comments, nothing, it's done.

1:25:49You missed that.

1:25:51So yeah, we're the downtown parking master plan.

1:25:55Okay, and that would be, I believe that's you, am I right?

1:25:59Yep, that's what my agenda says.

1:26:01So let's two to three minute break, everybody,

1:26:03as we move chairs, okay?

1:27:25What happened to those seats that were always three?

1:27:29Oh, is that right?

1:27:30I don't know what's that.

1:27:45I don't know.

1:27:52I don't know.

1:27:53I enjoy the ride.

1:27:54All right, what else is there?

1:27:56Yeah, okay.

1:27:57All right, well, I will call us back to order.

1:33:18If you're just joining us, we are now in the IDE portion

1:33:25of the meeting, and we only have one agenda item today,

1:33:29but it's a meaty one, and this is the downtown parking

1:33:32master plan.

1:33:33So we will begin our meeting,

1:33:37we will begin this portion of the meeting

1:33:39with a presentation by Jamie Zettel,

1:33:42Steve Anderson, and Terry Gaiman.

1:33:50Okay, good afternoon, everyone.

1:33:52Mayor Guthrie, council, members of the public,

1:33:53and colleagues, my name is Terry Gaiman.

1:33:55I'm the general manager of engineering

1:33:57and transportation services.

1:33:59I'm pleased to be here today to share the update

1:34:01to the downtown parking master plan.

1:34:03Joining me today for this presentation is Steve Anderson,

1:34:06manager of transportation engineering,

1:34:08Jamie Zettel, program manager of parking.

1:34:10We are also joined by the city's downtown revitalization

1:34:13officer, Stacy Laughlin, and of course,

1:34:15the city's executive team.

1:34:18And to begin, this committee of the whole meeting

1:34:20is also the statutory public meeting

1:34:22for proposed city-initiated amendments

1:34:24to both the 1995 and the 2023 zoning bylaws.

1:34:31Currently, both the 1995 and 2023 zoning bylaws

1:34:34require one parking space per residential unit

1:34:37in the downtown zones.

1:34:39The purpose of the proposed zoning bylaw amendments

1:34:42is to implement a new parking minimum required

1:34:45for residential units in downtown of 0.85 parking

1:34:48spaces per unit, as recommended in the downtown parking master

1:34:51plan.

1:34:52No other changes are proposed to parking regulations.

1:34:55Visitor parking rates will remain the same at 0.05 spaces

1:34:58per unit for buildings containing more than 20 dwelling units.

1:35:02And we ask that interested members of the public request

1:35:04receive further notice related to these applications

1:35:07by contacting the city clerk's office.

1:35:10So today, staff will present to you

1:35:12the updated downtown parking master plan.

1:35:14And for the last 13 months, our consultants, BA Group

1:35:17and Coming-in Company, have been expert partners with the city

1:35:19in developing this updated plan.

1:35:21Our consultant team is here today as well.

1:35:24In terms of agenda today, staff will share with you

1:35:26how the master plan aligns with the big priorities of the city.

1:35:30The master plan itself is centered

1:35:31on a theme of transformation through renewal

1:35:33of the parking system, responsive to and informed

1:35:36by robust public consultation.

1:35:39The master plan pivots on strategies

1:35:41to use parking as a tool to drive economic growth

1:35:44and to accelerate housing starts towards achievement

1:35:47of the city's commitments in its housing pledge.

1:35:50This document is a strategic forward-looking statement

1:35:52which outlines the vision for parking downtown.

1:35:55It's not an operational or tactical document

1:35:57with completed programs or plans.

1:35:59Those bodies of work will follow the council

1:36:01approval of the master plan.

1:36:03And during preparation of the master plan,

1:36:05public consultation was extensive and meaningful.

1:36:08Staff will share key messages from this consultation

1:36:11and the priority areas which emerged

1:36:12in these public conversations.

1:36:14And finally, and importantly,

1:36:16staff will outline the financial considerations

1:36:18and options to ensure the system is viable,

1:36:20physically responsible and provides good value

1:36:22for our taxpayers.

1:36:27In terms of strategic alignment,

1:36:28the downtown parking master plan is guided

1:36:30by the city's strategic plan.

1:36:32The parking master plan connects the primary themes

1:36:33of our current and forthcoming strategic plan

1:36:35by focusing on strategies to build our future wealth,

1:36:39powered by a focus on our constituents

1:36:41and a strong local economy,

1:36:43while ensuring decision-making considers

1:36:45and prioritizes our commitment to the environment

1:36:47and builds on our capacity to adapt clean technologies.

1:36:51Moreover, this master plan is aligned with the objective

1:36:54and timeline of work

1:36:54in the downtown infrastructure renewal program.

1:36:57This important renewal program will transform downtown

1:37:00and the parking operation is a contributor,

1:37:02enabler and beneficiary of that renewal work.

1:37:05By aligning the transformation of the parking operation

1:37:08with the outcomes of the downtown infrastructure work,

1:37:10the city will deliver an invigorated downtown position

1:37:13for cultural vibrancy and economic vitality

1:37:16while implementing future-looking transportation strategies.

1:37:21The downtown parking master plan

1:37:22strengthens our collective efforts to build wealth.

1:37:26This plan focuses on providing attractive, affordable

1:37:29and reasonable transportation options

1:37:32for all while maintaining our community assets.

1:37:34Significantly, for the first time,

1:37:36this master plan contemplates policies and strategies

1:37:39which can help increase the availability of housing

1:37:41to meet our community needs.

1:37:43The financial options recommended in this presentation

1:37:45aim to advance the long-term financial and resource strategy

1:37:48that is both achievable and affordable.

1:37:52Now at a regulatory and policy level,

1:37:54the downtown parking master plan

1:37:56pivots on three strategic city statements

1:37:58about housing and transportation.

1:38:00The downtown parking master plan responds to shaping wealth,

1:38:03our official plan amendment 80,

1:38:05with its call for increased building heights,

1:38:07reduced residential parking rates, promotion of transit

1:38:10and other planning and housing directives.

1:38:13Even greater focus is put on delivering the commitments

1:38:15made in the city's housing pledge.

1:38:17The master plan anticipates how parking ecosystem

1:38:20can advance, support and accelerate

1:38:23the construction of new residential housing units downtown

1:38:26through sound land use strategies,

1:38:28residential parking ratios,

1:38:29by creating policies which incentivize developers

1:38:32to build more housing downtown.

1:38:35Finally, the downtown parking master plan

1:38:37accelerates the achievement of the goals outlined

1:38:39in the transportation master plan.

1:38:41The parking master plan responds to the call

1:38:43to shift modes of travel by constituents

1:38:45to balance vehicular needs and vehicular parking

1:38:48with good land use, equity, accessibility

1:38:51and support for other modes of transportation

1:38:53along with climate resiliency

1:38:55and the adoption of public transit.

1:38:57I'm not gonna turn it over to Jamie Zettle,

1:38:59program manager of parking to continue our presentation.

1:39:11The development of this master plan

1:39:13was tuned exclusively to goals priorities

1:39:16led by engaged community voices.

1:39:19The solutions and recommendations contained in the plan

1:39:22reflect an understanding of the unique challenges

1:39:25of our downtown, its economic and business environment,

1:39:29its restrictions, limitations, corporate strategic priorities

1:39:33and our collective vision for Guelph's future.

1:39:37Underpinning this focus is deep technical analysis

1:39:40of our user behaviors, changing economic circumstances,

1:39:44utilization, occupancy and turnover rates,

1:39:47policy and legislative directives,

1:39:49rate structures, capacity and land use studies

1:39:53and more all driven by extensive data scrutiny

1:39:57while being situated within the broader industry best practices.

1:40:04Where did all this work lead us?

1:40:06The central theme of this master plan

1:40:08is on transforming the parking ecosystem

1:40:11for the future through strategic renewal.

1:40:14This focus on renewal aligns with the city's overall emphasis

1:40:18on renewing our downtown over the next decade and beyond.

1:40:23The downtown revitalization program

1:40:26and the downtown infrastructure renewal program

1:40:29are two key leading and transformative programs

1:40:33changing the fabric of downtown.

1:40:36This community, business and residential transformation

1:40:38of our downtown will shape Guelph for our generation.

1:40:42This transformation is founded on deliberate,

1:40:46purpose driven renewal of our downtown infrastructure.

1:40:50These linear and underground assets

1:40:53with the associated redesign to complete streets

1:40:55and public spaces are critical investments by the city

1:41:00to support the vibrancy of the residential, commercial,

1:41:03cultural and institutional elements of our downtown.

1:41:08Parking assets are a critical piece of this renewal.

1:41:11Indeed, parking assets can enable residential growth,

1:41:14flexible use of the curbside for commercial,

1:41:17cultural and tourism initiatives,

1:41:20can transform into related and embedded uses

1:41:25and can determine through their presence

1:41:27or through their absence what the nature

1:41:29of our future downtown will be.

1:41:31The downtown parking master plan reimagines

1:41:34parking's rural downtown, shifting it from an experience

1:41:38and a service which houses vehicular parking

1:41:41to a set of land assets, policies, programs

1:41:45and strategic decisions.

1:41:48Seen in this light, parking assets have become

1:41:50an important integrated and indispensable tool

1:41:54to deliver on the city's priorities.

1:41:59The master plan proposes the introduction

1:42:01of a payment in lieu of parking program

1:42:04within the historic fabric of downtown

1:42:06to accelerate housing starts.

1:42:09Such a policy can activate underused real estate

1:42:12to add housing supply.

1:42:15By purposefully using current access supply

1:42:18in our off street facilities,

1:42:20a payment in lieu program can support residential developers

1:42:24to invigorate our downtown housing stock

1:42:27by adding, renovating and transforming these buildings

1:42:31with new uses while maintaining the heritage fabric

1:42:34of these buildings.

1:42:36This program can unlock potential sites for redevelopment

1:42:40while ensuring that the cost to build parking

1:42:42to support these residents does not deter investment.

1:42:46A payment in lieu of parking program can also be tailored

1:42:50to encourage types of residential units

1:42:53the city would like to see built downtown

1:42:55through potential targeted policies

1:42:57which may encourage additional exemptions

1:43:01for affordable student or senior housing units

1:43:05and can require housing amenities,

1:43:07the line with the modal shift targets

1:43:10in the transportation master plan,

1:43:12including bicycle parking, transit subsidies

1:43:15for residents and other programs

1:43:17which further reduce the demand for vehicular parking.

1:43:23The downtown parking master plan challenges us

1:43:25to examine how to best use our assets

1:43:27to achieve our building, our city building goals.

1:43:31Through strategic real estate decision making,

1:43:34we can reimagine parking as housing.

1:43:38Given the changes to height permissions

1:43:39in the official plan amendment 80,

1:43:42the rezoning of related land for denser development

1:43:45and support for multiple uses on those sites,

1:43:48downtown's parking assets could be transformed.

1:43:52Imagine the Fountain Street parking lot

1:43:54reimagined as housing.

1:43:56Could this site be renewed with residential housing

1:44:00student or affordable housing given its proximity

1:44:03to the new Conestoga College campus

1:44:06while including perhaps two stories of public parking

1:44:09and expanded secure bike parking for residents

1:44:13and all the while being within walking distance

1:44:17to Guelph Central Station, Burgo Train

1:44:19or Guelph Transit Travel?

1:44:21Or could this site be transformed

1:44:23into residential housing units,

1:44:25space for community based agencies

1:44:27to have office and programming space,

1:44:30public parking and more secure bike parking?

1:44:34Users of these community spaces could benefit

1:44:36from its proximity to related community agencies downtown,

1:44:39to city services and to the Guelph Farmers Market

1:44:43while having equitable access by Guelph Transit,

1:44:47walking, cycling and vehicles.

1:44:51Letting our creativity expand,

1:44:53how might the parking asset on Macdonnell Street

1:44:56be reimagined with potential housing in mind?

1:44:59Imagine this site with a residential tower,

1:45:02a retail podium, public parking

1:45:06and expanded secure bike parking.

1:45:09It too would benefit from its proximity

1:45:11to Guelph Transit and Go Transit.

1:45:14Equally important in these examples

1:45:16is a significant economic impact on our business community

1:45:20as more people reside downtown,

1:45:23residents who shop, dine, socialize

1:45:27and engage with our cultural, social and community fabric.

1:45:32The expansion of residential development

1:45:34densifies the tax based downtown,

1:45:37while at the same time shaping and changing the nature

1:45:40of our transportation preferences.

1:45:43While none of the examples that I've provided today

1:45:45are planned projects,

1:45:47by reimagining parking as housing,

1:45:50the master plan lays out an approach

1:45:52to integrate parking into the downtown fabric

1:45:56while focusing first on the achievement

1:45:59of our transportation and housing goals.

1:46:03Continuing our focus on transportation and housing,

1:46:07the master plan recommends reducing

1:46:09the residential development parking rates

1:46:11in the existing bylaw.

1:46:14The consulting team conducted

1:46:15an extensive residential parking utilization study

1:46:20to determine the current actual usage of parking stalls

1:46:23in multi-residential buildings

1:46:25within the downtown secondary area.

1:46:28The findings suggest that the city can reduce

1:46:30the required parking spaces per unit from one to 0.85.

1:46:36This recommended reduction not only meets one of the outcomes

1:46:41of the amendment 80 of our official plan,

1:46:43but such a reduction can drive more housing growth

1:46:46and housing density.

1:46:48Further reductions to this rate can be achieved

1:46:52by the inclusion of robust transportation demand

1:46:54management measures included in development applications

1:46:58and can be further reduced if appropriate

1:47:01by accessing the payment in lieu

1:47:03of parking proposed program.

1:47:06This recommendation moves the city closer

1:47:09towards a pedestrian first, less car dependent downtown

1:47:14while still recognizing the current need

1:47:16for personal vehicular access and parking.

1:47:20As downtown develops, further reductions

1:47:22to the residential development parking rates

1:47:25can be contemplated in future master plan updates

1:47:28as residents shift their travel preferences in the future.

1:47:35Strategic land use planning and policies

1:47:38such as the payment in lieu of parking program,

1:47:40new residential housing and reduced residential parking rates

1:47:45support transit growth.

1:47:47These reimagined parking strategies

1:47:49support the accelerated achievement

1:47:51of the goals outlined in the Guelph

1:47:54transit future ready action plan.

1:47:57Higher housing density supports modal shift

1:47:59by purposely entrenching transportation

1:48:01demand management tactics and policies

1:48:05into our approach to land use,

1:48:07and in this case, to our parking assets.

1:48:10Combined, these strategies advance the city's commitment

1:48:14to reducing our environmental footprint,

1:48:16to meeting our 100 RE commitments

1:48:19of using only renewable energy sources

1:48:22and to shifting constituents transportation preferences

1:48:26to more sustainable solutions.

1:48:31The creation of a campus for Conestoga College

1:48:34will further transform downtown.

1:48:37It will also change parking behaviors with shorter stays,

1:48:41more movement of people throughout the day and evenings,

1:48:44and a deep reliance of the transportation

1:48:47of students and faculty by multiple means,

1:48:51including walking, transit, cycling,

1:48:54and other micro mobility options for students and faculty

1:48:58who live in or move to Guelph temporarily

1:49:02during their program.

1:49:04Campus users will also arrive by GO train,

1:49:07local and inter regional bus services,

1:49:09and in personal vehicles.

1:49:12Parking has an important role to play

1:49:14in developing transportation solutions

1:49:16to support Conestoga College

1:49:19in the promotion of local and inter regional transit

1:49:22and GO train use,

1:49:24to deliver longer term parking for faculty

1:49:26and support staff,

1:49:28and in creating policies and programs

1:49:30which can support the related parking concerns

1:49:34for any housing associated

1:49:36with this new downtown population.

1:49:40Land use, planning, strategic use of existing assets,

1:49:44wayfinding and other technologies,

1:49:47and a keen focus on encouraging modal shift

1:49:50from vehicular use are strategies

1:49:53the parking operation can employ

1:49:55to ensure the success of the arrival

1:49:57of Conestoga College downtown.

1:50:02Finally, on street parking can be reimagined

1:50:05as more than a space just for cars.

1:50:08The parking master plan encourages

1:50:10the flexible use of the curbside.

1:50:12The approach to the parking system should be dynamic

1:50:16and responsive to the changing needs of our downtown.

1:50:19As the patio program has demonstrated,

1:50:22parking stalls can spur and transform commercial activity,

1:50:26allowing businesses to try new service and product models

1:50:30to meet changing customer preferences of buying habits.

1:50:34By using the supply of on street spaces,

1:50:37businesses have proven that patios

1:50:39can be an economic generator of growth.

1:50:43While patios support certain types of businesses

1:50:45predominantly, flexible use of the curbside across downtown

1:50:51allows for other businesses to imagine their uses

1:50:55of those spaces to meet their business perspective.

1:50:59Flexible and active use of the curbside

1:51:01can ensure equity among business types

1:51:05as on street parking spaces are reimagined

1:51:08for complimentary uses.

1:51:11Delivery pickup and short stopping,

1:51:14this I shouldn't have written it this way,

1:51:17short shopping stay services,

1:51:20use the curbside in minutes rather than in hours.

1:51:27These on street parking stalls can be also transformed

1:51:31into social event and cultural spaces,

1:51:35bringing artistic dynamism to our public spaces.

1:51:39Visitors and tourists can interact with parking spaces

1:51:42that have been transformed to support placemaking,

1:51:44cultural exhibits, or could supply rest taking spaces

1:51:48where temporary Muskoka chairs may encourage lingering

1:51:52shopping and dining, encouraging tourists

1:51:54and visitors to stay longer.

1:51:57The master plan acknowledges and encourages

1:52:00the flexible use of the curbside

1:52:02and the related parking spaces.

1:52:07The preceding comments have been outlined,

1:52:09have outlined the major themes woven

1:52:11through the parking master plan.

1:52:14These themes and the related tactical recommendations

1:52:17to be discussed later were informed

1:52:19by our public consultation.

1:52:22Public consultation was robust, extensive, and meaningful.

1:52:27Over 1700 public, internal, and external stakeholders

1:52:33participated in the public consultation.

1:52:37This consultation ranged from online surveys

1:52:39and virtual town halls to in-person, in-depth interviews

1:52:44workshops, and direct email feedback

1:52:46to the engagement team.

1:52:48The Downtown Guelph Business Association,

1:52:51the Guelph Chamber of Commerce, Downtown Stakeholders,

1:52:54the Storm Hockey Organization, Conestoga College,

1:53:00the Accessibility Advisory Committee,

1:53:02and the Guelph Coalition for Active Transportation,

1:53:05among others were key participants

1:53:08in this consultation exercise,

1:53:11ensuring that their unique perspectives

1:53:13and needs were fully understood.

1:53:17There were three key findings

1:53:19which emerged during the public consultation,

1:53:22which speak to the appetite for change,

1:53:24and which helped to tune the approach to the roadmap

1:53:27for the master plan over the next five years.

1:53:31Over 75% of respondents drive downtown

1:53:35and don't see that changing soon.

1:53:38This finding established for the master plan

1:53:41the starting point in building a roadmap

1:53:43for the parking operation to transform to a future state.

1:53:48Working in partnership with other initiatives

1:53:50emerging from the Transportation Master Plan

1:53:52to achieve a modal shift in Guelph's travel preferences,

1:53:57the master plan developed a nuanced approach

1:54:00to achieving those modal shifts

1:54:02while acknowledging the current user behavior

1:54:05of vehicle users.

1:54:07The other key findings center on cost.

1:54:11Over 60% see cost as very important

1:54:14in their travel choices.

1:54:16A clear majority of respondents continue to support

1:54:19using tax dollars to fund complementary parking

1:54:21on downtown street.

1:54:23These findings suggest that the cost of parking

1:54:26and the availability of complementary short stay parking

1:54:29on street remains an important factor

1:54:32in determining a user's travel preferences

1:54:35when deciding where to shop, dine or visit.

1:54:41The public consultation also revealed several themes

1:54:43focused on theme, access, community services,

1:54:48commerce and connections to transit.

1:54:51The master plan contemplates new tactics

1:54:54and reinforces planned improvements

1:54:56which respond to these themes.

1:54:59The plan focuses on safety for users,

1:55:02vehicles and bicycles,

1:55:04sees the links between affordability and availability

1:55:07for all users, volunteers, services and residents

1:55:12who access the system

1:55:14and identifies under-serviced areas downtown

1:55:17while demonstrating how housing, commerce, transit

1:55:21and flexible use of public space work together.

1:55:27The master plan suggests creating targeted discounted permits

1:55:31for volunteers, local business owners, healthcare providers

1:55:36and not-for-profit and cultural organizations.

1:55:39It seeks to balance vehicle parking

1:55:42with improved cycling and pedestrian assets.

1:55:45Finally, the master plan reaches out in partnership

1:55:48to other groups to improve accessible parking options

1:55:52and encourages deeper strategic integration

1:55:55with Guelph Transit to achieve the modal shifts outlined

1:55:59in the transportation master plan.

1:56:03The master plan lays out a nuanced approach

1:56:05to achieve those modal shifts

1:56:07by recognizing the pace of change

1:56:09of our current vehicular users in the parking system.

1:56:13The plan supports the installation

1:56:15of more secure bike parking facilities

1:56:18in more locations downtown.

1:56:20It encourages aligning policies and promotions

1:56:23where appropriate to encourage transit ridership,

1:56:26extending our creativity like in programs

1:56:31such as riding transit to sporting events

1:56:33rather than driving and parking.

1:56:35The plan acknowledges the need to plan

1:56:38for more installations of electric vehicle charging stations

1:56:42as adoption increases and finally seeks

1:56:45to identify more solutions such as the installed LED lighting

1:56:50and solar panels in our facilities to contribute

1:56:53to the city's move to renewable energy sources,

1:56:56a key alignment to our 100RE commitments.

1:57:01Finally, the master plan outlines several tactics

1:57:04to improve the customer experience of the parking system.

1:57:07Planned painting, lighting and security upgrades

1:57:11in the parkades will improve safety

1:57:13and the customer experience.

1:57:15Rates, fees and charges will be examined

1:57:18to identify where the operation can support employees

1:57:22currently working in hybrid working environments,

1:57:25programs to support GO train users,

1:57:27the needs of volunteers, service agencies

1:57:30and medical professionals,

1:57:32and how a digital first mindset can create solutions

1:57:35for wayfinding, payment, knowing availability

1:57:39and event attendance.

1:57:41The master plan focuses on customers

1:57:43and offers a broad view of the nature

1:57:46and often competing need of the many users in our system.

1:57:53Given the scope of the master plan

1:57:54and a need to balance the competing

1:57:57identified during our public consultation,

1:58:00the master plan concentrates on three areas

1:58:03for the next five years.

1:58:06Accelerating housing starts is a primary outcome

1:58:09of the master plan.

1:58:11The approval of a payment in lieu of parking program,

1:58:15a change to the residential parking rate

1:58:18and reimagining parking as housing

1:58:20through strategic land use will directly contribute

1:58:24to the achievement of the city's housing pledge.

1:58:28A laser focus on maintaining downtown's economic vitality

1:58:32is the second outcome.

1:58:34The parking operation would work closely

1:58:37with partners at Conestoga College

1:58:39to ensure their direct and indirect parking requirements

1:58:43are met during their arrival and expansion downtown.

1:58:48Continued relationships between the parking operation

1:58:51and the downtown wealth business association

1:58:53and other downtown stakeholders

1:58:55will identify new opportunities to transform parking.

1:59:00Finally, the master plan will emphasize

1:59:03the resident experience.

1:59:05Given that the Baker Underground garage

1:59:07will not be operational until 2006

1:59:11and the coming disruptions

1:59:12from the downtown infrastructure renewal project,

1:59:16the plan will seek to improve customers' experiences

1:59:20and customer safety.

1:59:22Staff will develop and recommend targeted affordability programs

1:59:27and improve access through the creation

1:59:30of a residential on-street permit program.

1:59:34In collaboration with the Accessibility Advisory Committee,

1:59:38staff and members will identify opportunities

1:59:41to improve accessibility and advanced equity within the system.

1:59:47Now I'll turn it over to Steve Anderson,

1:59:49Manager of Transportation Engineering to continue.

1:59:59Afternoon, everyone.

2:00:01The truth is that parking has costs.

2:00:03It's why we talk about complimentary parking

2:00:06and not free parking.

2:00:08Our parking system and parking assets need to be funded

2:00:11and maintained through a tax-supported investment,

2:00:14through user fee investments, or a combination of both.

2:00:18During the development of this master plan,

2:00:21various funding approaches were examined.

2:00:24Current and plan budgets, user behavior,

2:00:27economic and commercial conditions,

2:00:29and other planned capital and renewal projects downtown

2:00:33were important considerations

2:00:35when developing any proposed financial models.

2:00:41The financial model for the parking operation accounts

2:00:44for its operating expenses,

2:00:47as well as its long-term capital needs and services,

2:00:50any debts associated with new construction activities

2:00:54to expand capacity, such as the market parkade

2:00:58and the upcoming underground garage

2:01:00at the new public library on Baker Street.

2:01:03The financial models suggest possible revenue sources,

2:01:07which cover the costs of the operation,

2:01:09including monthly permit and daily revenues,

2:01:12residential permit revenues, and tax investment,

2:01:17force crack.

2:01:22The current financial model does not include revenue

2:01:25from paid on street, following council's decision

2:01:30to remove it from the funding model in 2018.

2:01:33The model currently in place

2:01:35receives an annual investment from tax

2:01:38to support the existing day-to-day

2:01:40and future capital needs of the parking operation.

2:01:45For the purposes of accurate comparison,

2:01:48the two models presented here

2:01:50reflect the anticipated revenues in 2026.

2:01:54As we will see in subsequent slides,

2:01:57either financial model requires continued investment

2:02:01from tax funds in 24 and 25 during the implementation phase.

2:02:07In the tax-supported model,

2:02:0976% of the operations funding

2:02:13comes from monthly permit and daily revenues.

2:02:17Another marginal amount is anticipated

2:02:19from the proposed residential permit program.

2:02:22The remaining 23% of the operations fundings,

2:02:26or just over $1.1 million,

2:02:29comes from tax funds to cover the shortfall

2:02:32between earned revenues

2:02:34and the operating capital and debt expenditures

2:02:39of the operation.

2:02:43As is demonstrated in the second model,

2:02:46a full cost recovery model includes the introductions

2:02:49of revenues from paid on street parking

2:02:51in addition to the revenue streamed already outlined

2:02:54in the existing tax-supported model.

2:02:57In this model, revenues from paid on street

2:03:01represent 26% of the total funds required

2:03:04to recover the full cost of the operation.

2:03:08This model would continue to earn revenues

2:03:10from monthly permits, daily revenues,

2:03:13and the proposed residential permit program.

2:03:19In either financial scenario,

2:03:22the operation continues to require

2:03:24an investment of tax funds.

2:03:27In the full cost recovery model,

2:03:29there is an anticipated phase in period

2:03:32to tender, award, procure equipment,

2:03:35complete needed infrastructure,

2:03:38such as cabling and fiber upgrades,

2:03:40communicate and launch the payment processes

2:03:43to support paid on street parking.

2:03:47In the other model, investment of tax funds

2:03:50would remain as a continued investment

2:03:52into the operation as a tool for transformation and renewal.

2:04:01It is the recommendation of staff

2:04:04to approve the continuation of the existing financial model

2:04:07with an annual investment from tax

2:04:09to support the operation.

2:04:12While staff are committed to moving the operation

2:04:14to a full cost recovery model,

2:04:17it is not the right time to introduce paid on street parking.

2:04:21Downtown is experiencing disruption

2:04:23with the construction of the Baker Street project

2:04:27and the loss of parking on Baker and Chapel Lane.

2:04:30The Baker Street Underground Garage

2:04:33is not anticipated to be operational until 2026.

2:04:38When the Downtown Infrastructure Renewal Project begins,

2:04:41its work on Wyndham Street, further disruption

2:04:44to downtown will occur and continue to occur

2:04:48as that program completes its body of work.

2:04:51Staff are sensitive to the economic challenges

2:04:53and fragility downtown businesses are experiencing

2:04:57as they rebuild following disruptions from COVID

2:05:00and its lingering effects.

2:05:04Staff instead as indicated in recommendation three,

2:05:09that staff reexamine paid on street parking

2:05:11once the Baker Street Garage becomes operational

2:05:14and assess the appropriateness of implementing payment

2:05:17for parking on newly redesigned streets

2:05:20emerging from the Downtown Infrastructure Renewal Program

2:05:24during the next Downtown Parking Mass Plan Update

2:05:26scheduled for 2028.

2:05:30For the next five years, staff recommend maintaining

2:05:32the existing financial model,

2:05:34attack supported investment in parking

2:05:36as an investment in housing, period.

2:05:40The model anticipates a 5% annual increase

2:05:43to monthly permit rates and other associated fees

2:05:46and services, but does not contemplate annual increases

2:05:50to hourly parking rates or event parking rates.

2:05:54Anticipated revenues from a proposed residential permit

2:05:58program identified as a clear priority

2:06:01in the public consultation,

2:06:04contributes revenues beginning in 2025

2:06:06after its development and introduction.

2:06:10Finally, this model forecast contributions

2:06:13to a payment in lieu of parking reserve

2:06:16to fund future capital construction costs

2:06:19of approximately $605,000 annually.

2:06:24That's enough math for now.

2:06:26I will let Terry Gaiman come back

2:06:28to wrap up the presentation.

2:06:32Thank you, Steve.

2:06:34All right, folks, we are almost there.

2:06:36So Council's approval of the master plan

2:06:38and the financial model supported by annual tax funding

2:06:41is really an investment in growth.

2:06:44Council supported the renewal of the parking operation

2:06:46supports the transformation of our Downtown

2:06:48and advances the strategic priorities of the city.

2:06:52It's an opportunity to accelerate housing starts Downtown

2:06:55while identifying other assets with housing potential.

2:06:58Parking can be an active partner in spurring commercial growth

2:07:01and cultural and public use of the curbside

2:07:03by focusing on flexible and imaginative uses.

2:07:07The investment in parking strategies and policies

2:07:09can further deepen our climate resiliency

2:07:11by progressing achievement of our modal shifts splits

2:07:15while prioritizing equity and expanding access

2:07:17to our services and ways that work

2:07:18for our communities, means and abilities.

2:07:24Over the next five years,

2:07:25the proposed master plan parking should be viewed

2:07:28as a change agent through the strategic renewal

2:07:31and reimagine transformative possibilities

2:07:34of our parking assets present.

2:07:36A continued investment in tax funds

2:07:38multiplies future tax density Downtown for increased housing,

2:07:41increased foot traffic of shoppers, diners

2:07:43and users of services.

2:07:45Public funds invested today and over the next five years

2:07:49lead to private dollars spent Downtown

2:07:51multiplying the economic vitality of the area.

2:07:56And so to close, we appreciate the opportunity

2:07:58to present the Downtown parking master plan.

2:08:00Let's reimagine parking

2:08:02and explore the creative opportunities

2:08:04our city parking assets offer to transform Downtown.

2:08:07An investment in parking is an investment in housing.

2:08:10It's an investment in the economic vitality

2:08:12of Downtown business.

2:08:13It's an investment in the future of our taxation density.

2:08:17It supports the arrival of Constable College.

2:08:20It's expanding equity for our constituents,

2:08:22steepening our climate resiliency

2:08:24as we keep our eye towards the future.

2:08:26Thank you very much.

2:08:29Thank you, Mr. Gaiman.

2:08:31So before we table the motions,

2:08:33I'd like to go to our delegations.

2:08:36Our first delegation is Richard Overland.

2:08:55You have 10 minutes.

2:08:56Welcome back.

2:08:58There will be a chime.

2:08:59We've got some new tech in the council chambers.

2:09:02So you'll hear a chime.

2:09:03I promise to be under the tan.

2:09:05I have one thing. Fantastic.

2:09:06We appreciate that too.

2:09:07Thanks very much.

2:09:09Go ahead.

2:09:10Good afternoon.

2:09:11My name is Richard Overland.

2:09:12I'm the treasurer for the Downtown

2:09:14Wealth Business Improvement Association.

2:09:17And I'd like to speak to you today

2:09:18on behalf of the DGBA.

2:09:22First, I'd like to thank city staff

2:09:24for involving the DGBA

2:09:25in the process of developing the master plan.

2:09:28Myself and other board members

2:09:29were happy to be invited to several workshops

2:09:31and meetings with the staff

2:09:32and consultants over the last year.

2:09:35We are thankful to have a voice at the table.

2:09:38After our initial review of the proposed master plan,

2:09:41we see no immediate objections and we

2:09:43may have more detailed input at the next

2:09:46at the end of the month when it goes to council

2:09:49after more in-depth review by the board

2:09:52and input from our membership

2:09:53after they have had a chance to go over

2:09:55the master parking plan.

2:09:58We are pleased to see the mention

2:10:00of the proposed targeted parking pass program.

2:10:04We ask that we move forward with this sooner

2:10:06rather than later.

2:10:09We understand, will the master,

2:10:11we understand my own improvements

2:10:13to existing parking space may not be part

2:10:15of the actual master plan discussion today.

2:10:18We ask the city staff continue to work with us

2:10:21to find every possible extra parking space we can

2:10:24for our membership in the interim.

2:10:27Thank you for your time.

2:10:29Thank you very much.

2:10:30Stay put.

2:10:31Are there any questions for Mr. Overland?

2:10:35I don't see anything.

2:10:36Thank you very much for delegation.

2:10:37We appreciate that.

2:10:38Oh, sorry, hang on.

2:10:39No.

2:10:39Councillor Hall.

2:10:40Just a point of order for you, Madam Chair.

2:10:42Yes.

2:10:43The question was both Councillor Goller

2:10:45and I were speculating why is it 10 minutes

2:10:47as opposed to five minutes?

2:10:49Well, I'm glad you asked, Councillor Hall.

2:10:50Thank you.

2:10:51Because this is considered to be a statutory public meeting

2:10:54because we are looking at a reduction of parking minimums

2:10:56for the downtown area.

2:10:59And Mr. Clerk, did I miss anything?

2:11:02No, Madam Chair, you nailed it.

2:11:03There we go.

2:11:04Well, isn't that lovely?

2:11:05Thank you very much.

2:11:06Thanks very much for asking.

2:11:07It provides some clarity for folks who are watching.

2:11:09Thanks very much, Councillor Hall.

2:11:11OK, our next delegate is Victor Labresch, from whom

2:11:16we've also received correspondence.

2:11:27Welcome.

2:11:29You'll also get 10 minutes.

2:11:30If you get to nine minutes, 30 seconds, you'll hear a chime.

2:11:34And then stay put and we'll see if there are questions

2:11:35from members of the council.

2:11:37Thank you, Chair O'Rourke.

2:11:38And for the pronunciation of my last name,

2:11:42Mayor Guthrie and committee members, city staff,

2:11:46and public in attendance.

2:11:48My name is Victor Labresch, Associate Director

2:11:50of Planning Lead for Arcadis, formerly IBI Group,

2:11:54located in Waterloo.

2:11:56We're here specifically on behalf of our clients,

2:11:59Woodhouse Investments, and Woodhouse Group,

2:12:02who own properties in the core and outside the core area.

2:12:06I would note that slide seven in the PowerPoint presentation

2:12:10is a snapshot street view of our client's property

2:12:13at the corner of Cork and Wyndham.

2:12:16We want to thank staff for meeting with us

2:12:20and their openness for discussions.

2:12:22We also attended the stakeholders workshop and felt,

2:12:27listened to and engaged and we appreciate that.

2:12:33I'll sort of cut to the conclusion of our comments

2:12:35that respectfully, we believe the outcome, again,

2:12:39respectfully doesn't go far enough

2:12:41to really lead to much needed housing.

2:12:46In the downtown core.

2:12:49Firstly, a little bit of background.

2:12:50Woodhouse Group is a family-run business,

2:12:53started over 50 years ago in Kitchener,

2:12:56has expanded throughout Waterloo Region,

2:12:59and certainly in Southwestern Ontario.

2:13:02Now offering general contracting, environmental services,

2:13:06and real estate services on behalf of their portfolio

2:13:10and their clients.

2:13:12Again, one of the properties that they own here

2:13:14is in the downtown core at Cork and Wyndham.

2:13:18Based on our experience with our client

2:13:19and our firm on infill development

2:13:22and downtown master plans, which IBI Group,

2:13:25now Arcadis has been involved with throughout Ontario,

2:13:29the program that's proposed here

2:13:32is to speak to a couple of objectives.

2:13:36Meet the City of Guelph's housing supply goals,

2:13:38including repurposing of underutilized spaces

2:13:41within existing buildings for new housing

2:13:43in downtown Guelph.

2:13:45Provide additional housing units

2:13:47for post-secondary students, walking proximity

2:13:49to the Conestoga College campus,

2:13:51which is very exciting for Guelph, of course,

2:13:55and also coupled with demands for housing

2:13:58for the University of Guelph that's ongoing.

2:14:00The current zoning and approved by-law

2:14:05requires a minimum and more recently approved by-law,

2:14:08requires a parking rate of one space per downtown core,

2:14:11with two broad exemptions, however.

2:14:14Firstly, those exemptions would be for non-residential,

2:14:17including office, retail, commercial,

2:14:18and hotels, interestingly enough,

2:14:21would be required, no parking.

2:14:24Also, new residential uses that go within

2:14:28existing constructed buildings prior to June 1971,

2:14:32so approximately 52 years ago.

2:14:35The city's consulting team retained to assist

2:14:39in this study, first exemption continued

2:14:43the long-standing economic exemption

2:14:46for commercial-type uses and hotel uses,

2:14:49but wasn't including any further exemptions

2:14:54for residential or expansion of that date to,

2:14:57for example, 2003, for exemption of new residential

2:15:02that would coincide with your most recent zoning by-law.

2:15:06In our opinion and experience,

2:15:07the effect of exemption two,

2:15:10if applied to residential uses,

2:15:12would make it economically feasible

2:15:15for older existing buildings to repurpose,

2:15:17underutilize spaces for new housing.

2:15:21For example, more recently,

2:15:25Kitchener's City of London have zero parking requirement

2:15:29for residential uses.

2:15:31Northdale neighborhood of Waterloo is 0.25

2:15:36and 0.6 in and around the core of Waterloo.

2:15:40Many zoning by-laws are leaning that way.

2:15:44In our opinion and respectfully,

2:15:47the proposed changes will not provide

2:15:48the required reduction in costs,

2:15:50but rather substantially add to the costs

2:15:53and make it unfeasible to enable

2:15:55the repurposing of existing buildings underutilized spaces,

2:15:59whether they're constructing today

2:16:02or even in buildings prior to 1971.

2:16:06To support the consultant and the city staff recommendation

2:16:09for a very modest reduction,

2:16:11staff had noted there was 10 apartment buildings

2:16:15within the downtown core that were surveyed.

2:16:18However, we note that only half of these apartment buildings

2:16:20were actually located in the defined downtown core

2:16:23where a minimum parking reduction,

2:16:26a marginal parking reduction is proposed.

2:16:29We'd further note that none of these apartments

2:16:31are within existing residential buildings.

2:16:34So in short, as a new zoning by-law

2:16:37has recently been enacted by the city in April,

2:16:40we recommend that the date of June 7th, 1971,

2:16:45that was in the previous by-law,

2:16:47be extended to April of 2023 for those existing buildings.

2:16:53This change would effectively support

2:16:55the repurposing of underutilized buildings

2:16:58and the built infrastructure

2:16:59and meaningfully lead to further immediate short-term

2:17:04injection of housing that the city certainly requires.

2:17:09The effect of not providing this extension

2:17:11is that underutilized spaces and existing buildings

2:17:14will likely remain vacant

2:17:16and as repurposing of these spaces

2:17:19for residential uses is not viable feasibly,

2:17:22which would further hamper the growth

2:17:26and vitality of downtown Guelph,

2:17:29which we all need to support, of course.

2:17:32Respectfully, the proposed does not go far enough.

2:17:36In conclusion, Guelph has a great opportunity

2:17:39to recognize and enable existing buildings

2:17:41in the downtown core to be reinvested in, revitalized,

2:17:45be a much needed resource to significant needs

2:17:48of both students, housing and housing in general,

2:17:53that is very much needed, again,

2:17:54as soon as possible in downtown Guelph.

2:17:57To enable this, we respectfully request

2:18:00that the same parking exemption for non-residential uses

2:18:04be applied as they are for office, hotels

2:18:07and commercial uses built prior to April of this year.

2:18:12We'd be very happy to answer any of your questions.

2:18:15We hope to continue, we will continue discussions

2:18:18and dialogue with city staff leading up

2:18:20to the recommendation that you'll consider

2:18:23at the end of this month on September 26th,

2:18:27and again, appreciate your time and considerations

2:18:29and available to answer your questions.

2:18:31Thank you.

2:18:32Sit tight.

2:18:34Okay, I have questions from Councillor Klossin

2:18:36and then Councillor Goller.

2:18:40Thank you for you, Madam Chair.

2:18:43Thank you for the presentation.

2:18:45I really appreciated it when I read the letter through,

2:18:48I had some questions.

2:18:50So I'd like to get a little bit more details,

2:18:54just maybe for my own clarification understanding.

2:18:58So if I'm saying this correctly,

2:19:01please bear with me.

2:19:02So buildings before 1973, like your clients,

2:19:06if they were built, they require the same parking minimums

2:19:11as a new built.

2:19:12Is that accurate?

2:19:15Anything built actually in 1971,

2:19:17sort of through your chair,

2:19:18I'll record to the Councillor,

2:19:20anything built prior to 71 are exempted.

2:19:24Prior to 71.

2:19:25Was in your previous zoning bylaw,

2:19:27that's carried over in April,

2:19:2923 zoning bylaw.

2:19:31Okay.

2:19:32Our client, interestingly enough,

2:19:33that building at the corner of Cork

2:19:35and when built in 1980.

2:19:37So it's nine years short, right?

2:19:39So if it was nine years older,

2:19:42we'd be good to go to repurpose that entire building

2:19:46for residential uses.

2:19:48Okay, and I'm assuming that the building

2:19:51is underutilized at this point, right?

2:19:54Through your chair.

2:19:55Through the count.

2:19:58Yes, the TD Canada Trust has vacated the grounds space

2:20:03and about 50% of that building space

2:20:05is vacant at this time.

2:20:07Our client has certainly got it actively listed

2:20:10for release and repurpose.

2:20:14But with COVID hits to commercial, et cetera,

2:20:17office space, it's not going very well.

2:20:20Thank you.

2:20:21And one more through you and I'm sure.

2:20:23So the idea then, just to really be clear,

2:20:27sometimes it helps when I say it out loud.

2:20:28So the idea is that potentially a building

2:20:31that's already in existence,

2:20:33that previously been used for commercial

2:20:36with an exemption could potentially be converted

2:20:38into residential units, potentially.

2:20:42Through your chair, Rourke.

2:20:43Yes, and not be subject to the $27,000 cash

2:20:48and lieu of parking requirement per unit

2:20:51that would have to be paid that obviously goes rate directly

2:20:54against the construction repurposing costs.

2:20:57Right.

2:20:58Woodside group being a general well-established

2:21:02general contractor has run the numbers certainly

2:21:05and they've done others like that in Kitchener

2:21:07where example, the parking requirement is zero

2:21:12for residential retrofits.

2:21:14That added $27,000, $28,000 per unit

2:21:18just doesn't make it feasible to retrofit the building

2:21:21to residential plus all the other costs involved.

2:21:26Thank you.

2:21:27I appreciate the clarifications

2:21:31and I might have a comment for that later as well.

2:21:35Okay.

2:21:36Question from Councillor Goller for the delegate.

2:21:39Thank you through chair O'Rourke.

2:21:41Well, thank you for your presentation.

2:21:43I'm going to take us up a little bit to a higher level

2:21:45not to talk about your specific development

2:21:48because we're talking about the byline general

2:21:50but based on your experience working with developers

2:21:55that build with zero parking in say Kitchener,

2:21:59what is the impact to those units going sold

2:22:02or does it create negative impacts for the community

2:22:07when there are buildings with zero parking built

2:22:10in your experience?

2:22:13Through you chair O'Rourke to Councillor Goller

2:22:15in our experience because you're in the downtown core

2:22:18much of the decision to either rent or purchase down there

2:22:21is because it's not driven by the fact

2:22:25that you have one car or two cars.

2:22:27In most cases you don't have a car.

2:22:29So it's already an open playing field for you.

2:22:33So that's typically the types of people

2:22:35that would move downtown core these days

2:22:38especially in medium to larger size urban areas

2:22:41such as Guelph has evolved into having a rapid transit

2:22:45good transit system of course LRT in certain communities

2:22:49again Kitchener Waterloo London has the BRT

2:22:54but Guelph Transit has a very good system of course

2:22:57and with Go available to it.

2:23:01It's a sort of a longer answer to your question

2:23:03but the people that want to come down there

2:23:05are typically not reliant on a car.

2:23:08Shoppers as I think we saw in some of the surveys

2:23:11in our point presentation, they're coming down.

2:23:14I happened to live in Cambridge.

2:23:16We come to downtown Guelph many, many times

2:23:20to go to the restaurants and shops.

2:23:22We drive our one car and the four occupants go.

2:23:25So I think the survey is more skewed by

2:23:28and again respectfully I think the survey is more skewed

2:23:30by those people that are coming down to commercial retail

2:23:33and shopping and not really for the purposes

2:23:36of living downtown.

2:23:38Okay, thank you very much for that.

2:23:41And through your chair or work with regards

2:23:45to the staff recommendation, they did studies.

2:23:50They found that parking utilization in Guelph

2:23:53for parking lots was 80% where there was one parking requirement.

2:23:57So that's where they ended up with 0.8 units.

2:24:01Seeing as this is going to be redeveloped

2:24:05as a residential development

2:24:07where people are going to live there,

2:24:09how do we reconcile this recommendation

2:24:14that the current status would require about 0.85 parking spaces

2:24:19for building, why should we be looking

2:24:24at having no parking requirements

2:24:26when currently the use is you need about 0.85 parking?

2:24:30So do we have, what is changing about the situation

2:24:35that would allow for no parking?

2:24:37Through your chair or to the counselor.

2:24:40Again, I certainly defer to staff

2:24:43to answer that question as well,

2:24:44but in looking at the methodology surveys

2:24:47and the parking demands of reaching 0.85,

2:24:52as we noted, the sites that were surveyed

2:24:56weren't in for existing buildings in the downtown core

2:24:59to be repurposed for residential.

2:25:01I think there needs to be a specific question

2:25:03put out to the public or surveyed to the public

2:25:05that if you were to choose to live downtown,

2:25:09would you need to be reliant on the car?

2:25:12I think those who would answer that question would say,

2:25:15why wouldn't choose to live downtown

2:25:17in the first place if I needed a car?

2:25:19Because we all know a society that's changing.

2:25:22So if you answered the question, yes, I would live downtown.

2:25:25I think it would be heavily influenced

2:25:26by the fact that I don't need a car.

2:25:28So therefore you don't need that space.

2:25:32Again, I defer to staff to clarify the survey results

2:25:36if that 0.85 was informed also by a question

2:25:39related to residential users coming downtown

2:25:42or was that just commercial?

2:25:44So I think I meant they did a scan of current use,

2:25:48but I thank you for your feedback.

2:25:50I really appreciate it.

2:25:52Thank you, Chair Ork.

2:25:53Okay, we have one more question

2:25:54or a couple of questions from Councillor Boosetil.

2:25:58Yes, thank you.

2:25:59And through you, Madam Chair,

2:25:59thank you to the delegation.

2:26:01I'm gonna build a little bit more

2:26:03on Councillor Rodriguez's question.

2:26:06Again, not from the perspective of your specific client,

2:26:10but from your experience from other jurisdictions

2:26:14in the redevelopment, the residential retrofits,

2:26:18were there alternative modes of transportation

2:26:20included into that development,

2:26:22whether it's bike, a visitor bike kind of things,

2:26:26just so I can picture that.

2:26:29Through you, Chair Ork, to Councillor,

2:26:31yes, I was remiss to say that,

2:26:33definitely in the downtown cores of the cities

2:26:36we've mentioned, again, medium, even smaller size,

2:26:40most municipalities have transportation design

2:26:44management requirements.

2:26:46And for example, in Kitchener Waterloo,

2:26:49they require one secured bicycle parking space per unit.

2:26:54So as historically used to be one parking space per unit,

2:26:57it's now one secured indoor parking space per unit.

2:27:01And other things like bus pass subsidies,

2:27:05car sharing, car pooling programs within these buildings.

2:27:10And these are set by the related site plan approval

2:27:16agreements that municipalities enter into with developers.

2:27:20Thank you, that's all, Madam Chair.

2:27:22Thank you, Councillor.

2:27:23Okay, any other questions on screen in the room?

2:27:26No, great.

2:27:27Thank you very much for your delegation

2:27:29and for the correspondence, we appreciate it.

2:27:31Thank you again, all, thank you.

2:27:32Okay, our next, some screens are touch screens

2:27:36and others are not.

2:27:37Our next delegate is Aiju.

2:27:39Sorry, and again, welcome back.

2:27:47You get 10 minutes, if you hit nine minutes

2:27:50and 30 seconds, you'll hear a chime.

2:27:52Excellent, thank you, Madam Chair.

2:27:54Afternoon, Madam Chair.

2:27:56Mayor Guthrie, esteemed councillors

2:27:58and respected city staff.

2:28:00My name is Aiju and Salvatore

2:28:02and I'm here today in my capacity

2:28:05as the chair of the Guelph Coalition

2:28:06for Active Transportation.

2:28:08We greatly appreciate having been engaged

2:28:10as part of the downtown parking master plan process

2:28:13and are happy to see that secure bike parking is highlighted

2:28:16in the report as presented.

2:28:18We do, however, have some other concerns.

2:28:21But first, let me share with you

2:28:23GCAT's vision for downtown.

2:28:25Our vision is to have a destination downtown,

2:28:28a place to spend time and enjoy all that

2:28:30our excellent downtown businesses have to offer.

2:28:34A place to spend time with family and friends,

2:28:36a safe place to go to round on foot or by bike

2:28:39and move from shop to shop, store to store,

2:28:42restaurant to restaurant, and so on.

2:28:45Of course, there's a spectrum of views

2:28:48in how this manifests on our board.

2:28:50Is downtown pedestrianized car-free?

2:28:52Perhaps car light?

2:28:54Is there a safe, separate cycling infrastructure,

2:28:56race pedestrian cross-rocks?

2:28:58Regardless, the main theme is safety.

2:29:02Searching for on-street parking

2:29:04can be a stressful situation

2:29:06and it greatly divides a driver's attention.

2:29:08I'm sure many of you can relate to this,

2:29:10thinking you found an open parking space,

2:29:12starting to pull in only to find it's filled

2:29:14by a smart car or a motorcycle.

2:29:16Then you have to back out, into live traffic,

2:29:19make a sharp turn, or another unexpected maneuver.

2:29:25Street parking creates many potential points of conflict

2:29:28and certain types, such as slant parking, are worse than.

2:29:32From the perspective of an Active Transportation user,

2:29:34whether walking, cycling, rolling, or otherwise,

2:29:38having more drivers choose the park aides

2:29:40as their primary parking option

2:29:42would be an excellent improvement.

2:29:44Unfortunately, the incentives are mismatched

2:29:47and the park aides are grossly underutilized.

2:29:50Advertisements instructing drivers to stop circling,

2:29:53counters that show space in the park aides,

2:29:55303 when I got here, and other promotional material,

2:29:59thus far, doesn't seem to have changed this fact.

2:30:03The downtown parking master plan did identify

2:30:06some improvements that could be made

2:30:08to make the park aides more attractive,

2:30:10such as safety and maintenance.

2:30:12Though, as long as there's clear financial incentive

2:30:15to search for free street parking,

2:30:17we don't believe that these measures are sufficient

2:30:19to increase park aides use.

2:30:21Our ask is that the city be bolder

2:30:23and take real action to shift parking demand away

2:30:25from street spots and towards the underutilized park aides

2:30:29by changing the financial incentives.

2:30:32On the proposed amendments to the zoning by-law,

2:30:34which would reduce minimum parking requirements

2:30:37for residential developments,

2:30:38we are very happy to see this.

2:30:40Though we believe it doesn't go far enough,

2:30:43we hope the city can take a more holistic approach

2:30:45and assess actual transportation needs,

2:30:48not presumed to vehicle storage needs.

2:30:51Downtown has many great amenities within walking distance,

2:30:57plenty of transit options,

2:30:59and for some, not all,

2:31:01living without a car is not only possible, but desirable.

2:31:06An excellent example of this is the development

2:31:08at 120 year on, where council approved a request

2:31:11for less surface parking,

2:31:12and the developer in turn included a bike ramp

2:31:14connecting to secure indoor bike parking.

2:31:17Two of our previous GCAT chairs delegated

2:31:19in support of this.

2:31:21The parking reduction supported the inclusion

2:31:23of a fifth floor with affordable units.

2:31:26In the end, we know that the cost

2:31:28of this mandated parking will be passed along

2:31:30to the occupants of the resident,

2:31:32and especially in the current housing climate,

2:31:35giving them the burden of paying for a parking spot

2:31:37they may not want, need, or use is a gross miservice.

2:31:42Ultimately, we see the very modest reduction

2:31:44in parking minimums and continuation

2:31:47of large tax subsidy to parking

2:31:49as counter to the city's strategic plan goals

2:31:51on climate, transportation,

2:31:53and building affordable housing stock.

2:31:55We hope that council uses this opportunity

2:31:57to take a step in the right direction,

2:31:59provide real incentive to shift to the park aides,

2:32:02and further reduce minimum parking requirements

2:32:04as many of our municipal peers have done.

2:32:07Thank you, and I appreciate everyone's time.

2:32:10Thank you, Mr. Salvatore.

2:32:11I believe councillor Allt has a question for you.

2:32:13Thank you very much, Chair O'Rourke.

2:32:15Thank you, Mr. Salvatore.

2:32:17I listened with interest because I am a cyclist,

2:32:21and I noted your comments about the search

2:32:24for on street parking as being stressful.

2:32:27What wasn't clear to me,

2:32:29are you suggesting eliminating on street parking?

2:32:35Through you, Madam Chair, to councillor Allt.

2:32:38No, at this time, the GCaP Board is not suggesting that.

2:32:41We simply would like to have the incentives corrected

2:32:44so that park aides parking is more attractive

2:32:47than the high demand, low supply on street parking.

2:32:52Okay, thank you.

2:32:52So the next part of that question actually

2:32:54is an important one.

2:32:56Are you, if you're suggesting reducing on street parking,

2:32:59my concern is that that would create

2:33:01an even greater stressful situation

2:33:04as you would have the same number of people

2:33:06still searching for fewer parking spots.

2:33:09Was that the intention?

2:33:11Through you, Madam Chair, to councillor Allt.

2:33:14No, again, we're not suggesting a decrease in total parking,

2:33:18just having folks choose the park aides

2:33:21as their primary mode.

2:33:23Part of the reason I,

2:33:25or we weren't very prescriptive about this,

2:33:27in fact, suggesting say, charge for on street

2:33:30and make the park aides free or something to that effect is,

2:33:33we do know already, and as was presented earlier today,

2:33:36there's quite a large amount of subsidy

2:33:38from the taxpayer going towards the park aides,

2:33:40and I know there'd be quite a lot of implications to that,

2:33:43that frankly, I don't feel qualified to speak on.

2:33:46Thank you very much.

2:33:48Okay, hang on, Mr. Salvatore,

2:33:49any other questions for the delegate?

2:33:52Seeing none, thanks very much.

2:33:54Thank you.

2:33:55Have a great afternoon.

2:33:56Okay, councillor committee,

2:33:58this recommendation comes back to us now.

2:34:01Is anyone willing to move

2:34:02and second the staff recommendations?

2:34:04Councillor Allt?

2:34:07Oh, yes, sorry, I forgot.

2:34:10We can put the motion on the floor,

2:34:11but I would need to take a break

2:34:13because we are in a statutory public meeting

2:34:15to allow people to phone in,

2:34:17in case they wanna participate,

2:34:18or if anybody in the gallery would like to delegate,

2:34:21you're welcome to do so.

2:34:23Thank you, Mr. Clark.

2:34:24All right, so if you're listening

2:34:26and you wanna call in to delegate,

2:34:28you can call 519-837-5603.

2:34:31We'll take a 10 minute,

2:34:35five minute break,

2:34:36and we'll be back in five.

2:40:28Okay, folks, my watch says five minutes,

2:40:32during which time we did get a caller,

2:40:35and so we have a caller, Mr. Maurizio Cannebo.

2:40:41I hope I pronounced your name right, sir,

2:40:43please correct me if I'm wrong.

2:40:46You have 10 minutes,

2:40:47so thanks very much for calling in.

2:40:48We'll give you 10 minutes,

2:40:49as this is a statutory public meeting.

2:40:51There'll be a chime at nine minutes and 30 seconds

2:40:54to let you know you have 30 seconds remaining,

2:40:57and after your delegation,

2:40:58please stay on the line as members of council

2:41:00may have questions for you, okay?

2:41:05Excellent, so you go ahead and you're ready.

2:41:07Yep.

2:41:08Yeah, so I call in to speak on the downtown parking master plan

2:41:14and I think there are some good points

2:41:17that staff recommended.

2:41:19However, I fully agree with no,

2:41:23we're not going forward with the full abolition

2:41:27of parking minimums.

2:41:29I think in downtown, we shouldn't be focusing on parking,

2:41:32we should be focusing on building a place

2:41:34where people want to eat and live and spend time,

2:41:39and I don't think we have a choice of parking either,

2:41:42like all the parking are 50% capacity on a good day.

2:41:50I honestly don't want to start rushing out

2:41:51for keeping on three parking.

2:41:54I do understand that sometimes delivery drivers

2:42:00might need to park goes by and so forth,

2:42:04but the exception shouldn't be,

2:42:07the exception shouldn't be the norm, in my opinion.

2:42:12On three parking shouldn't be free either, right?

2:42:15That's crime real estate in the city.

2:42:18All parking, pulling out in the city,

2:42:20it's worth around $1 billion in downtown alone.

2:42:24So we're feeling in the gold mine

2:42:27that we don't know how to use them best.

2:42:31And my other concern was the opposition for,

2:42:37there were variants on tax subsidies

2:42:45for parking infrastructure.

2:42:47If we're going to build parking downtown,

2:42:49it should be self-sustaining.

2:42:51I don't see a reason why it shouldn't be,

2:42:54especially because we have a powerful downtown,

2:42:57it generates a good chance of a tax revenue.

2:43:00I don't know the numbers for 2022 or 2023,

2:43:05but when we went through the analysis,

2:43:09downtown basically, the rating from downtown was around 40%,

2:43:16if I'm not mistaken.

2:43:18So 10% of the land area growth generates

2:43:22more to a tax revenue, more to a tax revenue by far.

2:43:30That's the case even when we have so much parking,

2:43:33we have so much on street parking,

2:43:34so much on surface block,

2:43:37and we have so much low density in downtown

2:43:40and around downtown.

2:43:43I'd put it for that,

2:43:46maybe we should consider what is parking minimums,

2:43:48and maybe we should consider actually

2:43:50charging people at cost of the parking on the,

2:43:55because this is not any area of wealth.

2:43:57The most important area of wealth

2:43:59where most of the wealth is right,

2:44:03and we should be focusing on,

2:44:08wasn't sharing that,

2:44:09making that the main point,

2:44:14making a place for people to read and stay.

2:44:18Yeah, that's what I wanted to say, Clay.

2:44:22Okay, well thank you very much.

2:44:23Appreciate that you called in.

2:44:25We're having a little bit of trouble hearing you,

2:44:27but I've heard clearly that you think

2:44:30that we should be focusing on places for people to live.

2:44:32You have some concerns about the cost of parking

2:44:35in our park aides and pointed out

2:44:37that there's quite a lot of availability.

2:44:39Did I miss anything else that you'd like to add?

2:44:48That was the core of my argument,

2:44:50which is that we have to focus on making

2:44:52downtown a place to be,

2:44:54and not a place to just park a car,

2:44:57and just pass around.

2:44:59Like it should be a place where people want to be,

2:45:01and they want to stay,

2:45:02and they're willing to pay a price

2:45:03over the cost of the infrastructure,

2:45:05because I don't think it's fair for

2:45:09the new tax rates of wealth to be subsidizing

2:45:11downtown parking,

2:45:14when it's such a bad land use.

2:45:19Great, well I appreciate the summary,

2:45:20and you made it very clear that downtown

2:45:22should be a place to live,

2:45:23and not a place to park a car.

2:45:24So I really appreciate you providing that summary statement.

2:45:28I'm just gonna see if there are any members of council

2:45:30who have a question for you.

2:45:34And seeing none,

2:45:35just want to thank you very much for calling in.

2:45:36We appreciate it.

2:45:42Okay, council, I had councillor Allt

2:45:44willing to move the motion.

2:45:45I need a seconder.

2:45:49Councillor Downer, excellent.

2:45:50And then council alt wanted to kick it off

2:45:52with some questions.

2:45:53Thank you very much, chair Oror.

2:45:57First of all, I do wish to thank staff for a task,

2:46:01which I believe really does require the wisdom of Solomon

2:46:04to deal with all of the various concerns

2:46:07that we have associated with parking,

2:46:09everything from merchants to residents,

2:46:12to cycling and active transportation.

2:46:16Mr. Anderson brought up something for me

2:46:19that is a bit of a concern.

2:46:21And that is, and I don't know to whom

2:46:24this should be addressed, so just to staff.

2:46:28Mr. Anderson may use the words downtown disruption

2:46:31will reduce parking further,

2:46:34referring to infrastructure redevelopment.

2:46:38What concerns me is that the ratio recommended by staff

2:46:42makes a lot of sense to me.

2:46:44What seriously concerns me is if we were to reduce

2:46:49that, are we able to predict what kind of a negative impact

2:46:53that would have on parking in the downtown,

2:46:56possibly also retail and really just the logistics

2:47:02of getting cars around downtown,

2:47:04looking both for parking and also moving through

2:47:07the downtown, I think the windows street infrastructure

2:47:09redevelopment is a serious concern for us

2:47:12as we address parking.

2:47:19So through you, councillor Rock to council,

2:47:23certainly the downtown infrastructure renewal program

2:47:26is gonna be disruptive, the downtown construction always is

2:47:29and we're gonna continue to work with the community

2:47:31around how do we best handle that?

2:47:34How do we phase it correctly?

2:47:35How do we sequence it correctly?

2:47:37Of course, there's technical sides

2:47:38and design and construction considerations there.

2:47:41And so we're gonna have to work within

2:47:43sort of the limitations of that,

2:47:45but that's all part of the community engagement

2:47:46that's happening through that program

2:47:48because to your point, certain street segments

2:47:51are gonna have certain impacts

2:47:52and certainly the parking ecosystem overall

2:47:54has to be ready to handle that.

2:47:57So that's the approach that we're taking for now

2:47:59and as we keep going forward.

2:48:01And thank you because I can certainly predict

2:48:04that the parking ratio will be significantly lower

2:48:07than 0.85 at many different points through redevelopment.

2:48:11Will that also be affected by increases in density

2:48:15in the downtown as we see Baker Street

2:48:18and elsewhere being constructed?

2:48:26Through the chairman, I'm sure that I understand the question.

2:48:29Do you mind repeating that?

2:48:30As the density in the downtown area increases

2:48:33through various construction projects,

2:48:35such as Baker Street, the old federal building

2:48:39across the police state, do we need to address issues

2:48:43of the parking ratio related to density as well?

2:48:47Sorry, okay.

2:48:48Thank you through your chair or work.

2:48:50I think the master plan itself contemplates

2:48:52the ultimate 2051 population protection.

2:48:54So it considers the land use planning,

2:48:55it considers the density, it forecasts additional need

2:48:59for parking supply and the ecosystem overall.

2:49:01Of course, the timing depends on the actual construction

2:49:04and development downtown.

2:49:06At the same time, the ratios itself combined

2:49:09with things like the parking and loop program,

2:49:11TDM measures, increased transit use

2:49:14are kind of all working in balance with each other.

2:49:16And thank you very much

2:49:17and just one final comment, chair or work.

2:49:20I wanna thank staff again.

2:49:22I think the ratio that-

2:49:23If we could keep comments till the end.

2:49:25Absolutely.

2:49:26For our questions, appreciate that.

2:49:27Thank you.

2:49:28Mayor Guthrie has a question.

2:49:33Yes, thank you and through you, Madam Chair,

2:49:35through you to staff.

2:49:37Do you think that parking requirements

2:49:42can hinder developments

2:49:46for residential homes in our downtown core?

2:49:55Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie,

2:49:57I think every site is sort of site specific

2:50:00in terms of how it does plan and grow and develop.

2:50:04Again, I think the sort of package of tools

2:50:07predicted from the parking master plan

2:50:09allow greater flexibility than we've had in the past

2:50:12to help growth in downtown

2:50:14and to help each development nuance its way

2:50:17through the different options available to it.

2:50:23Okay.

2:50:29Okay, I'll accept that answer, of course.

2:50:34Do you think through you, Madam Chair,

2:50:37that required parking within a downtown core

2:50:41close to a GO station, close to main transit,

2:50:45to a walkable downtown core community,

2:50:48do you think that housing people in the exact same space

2:50:54that cars would take up would be of more importance

2:50:57in a housing crisis?

2:51:06Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie,

2:51:08I think in response to that,

2:51:10the downtown parking master plan

2:51:12tries to look holistically at the growth,

2:51:13it tries to look holistically at the competing needs

2:51:16for downtown overall,

2:51:18and it tries to take steps towards making

2:51:22creation of more housing more attainable.

2:51:28Okay, through you, my last question then would be though,

2:51:31to make housing more attainable,

2:51:33do you think it would not be incumbent then

2:51:36to not require parking?

2:51:39If instead of the parking, again, residential,

2:51:42I'm not talking about commercial side of things,

2:51:45but on residential, if you wanna make it attainable,

2:51:49there's multiple, there's multiple and multiple reports

2:51:54and evidence where not requiring parking

2:52:01for residential will translate

2:52:04into more affordable housing for people.

2:52:08So I'm just wondering like where is staff,

2:52:11where was staff's headspace about trying to draw

2:52:16that connection between the trade-off of housing

2:52:21and the parking requirements where the parking space

2:52:27is actually going to be taking up

2:52:30an actual unit for people to live in.

2:52:32So some of the, just to bake my question a bit more,

2:52:38the research that I've done is that for every 1.5 parking space

2:52:44that's required mandatory for people to provide,

2:52:52that if you take into consideration those spaces,

2:52:54including the aisles and the turning and the ramps

2:52:57and whatnot, you will lose a 900 square foot apartment.

2:53:03So I'm just wondering where staff

2:53:05and the consultant's headspace was where the choice

2:53:10about going to this type of a parking arrangement

2:53:13and the recommendations that are coming out of it

2:53:17felt that that was necessary.

2:53:20If there was any comparison made to that compared to a unit

2:53:24for somebody to live in instead.

2:53:28So through the chair to you, Mayor Guthrie,

2:53:30a couple of things for me and then I see our chief planners

2:53:33joined us as well here.

2:53:35The downtown parking master plan overall,

2:53:38I think moves in the direction of added flexibility

2:53:42when you think about the reduced ratio,

2:53:43you think about programs like Payment and Loo.

2:53:45It also gives staff the ability, for example,

2:53:47if an application were to come in

2:53:50that could be incentivized further for transit,

2:53:52TDM affordable housing to look at things

2:53:54like site specific zoning by law amendments,

2:53:56where perhaps staff would recommend based on

2:53:58the total package of a development,

2:54:01maybe that that would be appropriate,

2:54:02but I'll turn it over to our chief planner

2:54:04to see if there's anything further.

2:54:08Thank you, Mr. Gaiman through a chair to Mayor Guthrie.

2:54:14So it's not a for us, it's not a one or the other.

2:54:18You can have both.

2:54:20You can have required parking.

2:54:22You have parking that people still want in the downtown

2:54:26and you cannot.

2:54:29It's certainly open for anyone.

2:54:30So this is 0.85 at a market rate housing is the norm.

2:54:36If someone wants to come in

2:54:37and in fact, next month, the planning committee,

2:54:40you will have someone coming in asking for a reduction

2:54:42in that number because they're providing transit passes

2:54:47and they're doing a car share program.

2:54:50So they're going to be coming through asking for a reduction

2:54:52because they have other incentives to encourage not parking.

2:54:58If someone comes in with an affordable housing project

2:55:00and we've seen it on other sites,

2:55:02we reduce that parking number.

2:55:04But if we just provide a smaller number,

2:55:08that means at market rate,

2:55:11there is no incentive to do anything else.

2:55:14There's no incentive to reduce the cost of a home

2:55:18by $130,000 instead of providing an underground parking.

2:55:24So there's still an option for people to come back

2:55:27with a reduction in parking that's supported

2:55:29by other TDM programs.

2:55:31But for market rate housing,

2:55:33the number is what we have surveyed

2:55:36and what our best practices are

2:55:37based on our consultants report.

2:55:40Okay, Madam Chair, then just a follow-up, thank you.

2:55:44I respectfully disagree with some of that,

2:55:46but that's okay, thank you.

2:55:50I guess my question is that how,

2:55:55maybe I've just lost the question.

2:55:59What did you say?

2:56:00You said a lot there.

2:56:02I'm just trying to remember what you said

2:56:03to prompt my question.

2:56:06I can't remember.

2:56:07It was good, it was really good, everybody.

2:56:09Let me just think about it, Madam Chair,

2:56:12I'll get back to you.

2:56:14Oh yeah, I remember it now, thank you.

2:56:16Thank you for the extra couple of seconds.

2:56:19So I'm hearing that the payment in lieu of parking,

2:56:25that stuff is kind of coming.

2:56:27And you rightly told Council that I think it might be

2:56:32next year sometime that sort of the way

2:56:34that program would work would come.

2:56:38But you also just said that we're gonna be hearing

2:56:40from a developer in a month about some sort of

2:56:43incentive programs and stuff like that to reduce parking.

2:56:46When can we expect as a Council then for us to,

2:56:52I guess my point is that I don't want to hear

2:56:55from that developer to come and ask us for something.

2:56:59I would like the policies to be in place

2:57:02or the delegated authority to allow staff

2:57:05to have that happen.

2:57:07We need to get housing built faster.

2:57:09So having a developer have to come here

2:57:11and ask permissions for this and that,

2:57:14it is bogging down the process.

2:57:16So how fast can this payment in lieu process

2:57:20be completely wrapped up in a bow

2:57:23with all the different parameters involved in it

2:57:26so that that policy is in place

2:57:29and we can eliminate that as an issue for somebody

2:57:33to have to come and ask permissions for at Council.

2:57:40Through you, Chair Rock-Tim, Erica Three.

2:57:42So we are currently piloting payment in lieu

2:57:45as a program that we can apply

2:57:47to different developments that come in.

2:57:49So the development that Ms. Wauke spoke about

2:57:53is actually hoping to also take advantage of that pilot.

2:57:56So they're gonna come here,

2:57:57they're gonna ask for a parking reduction

2:57:58in terms of the zoning requirement.

2:58:00And they're also proposing to take advantage

2:58:02of using that pill process for downtown.

2:58:06In terms of developing a program that's in place

2:58:08without having to maybe come to you for approval,

2:58:11we are hoping to do that work this fall

2:58:15and have engagement on it and then come back.

2:58:18We're aiming right now for February 2024

2:58:21for Council's approval of that program.

2:58:24Okay, thank you.

2:58:25I just didn't think I saw through you, Madam Chair.

2:58:29Is there anything in the recommendations

2:58:31that reflects that February time

2:58:35that we can expect that to come back?

2:58:39And I didn't think I saw one in there.

2:58:44So how would we be assured that it's coming back?

2:58:48So through you, Madam Chair, Mayor Guthrie,

2:58:52that you will not see the recommendations.

2:58:55The consults were not prescriptive about it.

2:58:57It is work that would be in sort of my body work

2:59:00to do immediately.

2:59:02I have not underestimated the importance of it.

2:59:05I have instruction to make sure that it's on the committee

2:59:08of the whole meeting for the February meeting.

2:59:10So that's our target date.

2:59:12There is a little bit of complexity

2:59:14that we need to work through the restrictions

2:59:15within the Planning Act.

2:59:16So we'd like to wanna make sure that that's done correctly.

2:59:20And we wanna make sure that we have a bit of engagement

2:59:23but you will see it on the agenda forecast

2:59:25for February of next year.

2:59:28Okay, Madam Chair, thank you.

2:59:30I'm so sorry, I have only one more question.

2:59:32Thank you for your indulgence.

2:59:34So my last question is this.

2:59:37You know, I was just talking to my colleague here

2:59:40about everyone knows that we're in a housing crisis

2:59:44and we gotta do stuff fast, except has there been any thought

2:59:50about a timeframe where we don't do any parking requirements

2:59:58in the downtown for like a four year period

3:00:02or a five year period to make a major incentive

3:00:07to get housing built.

3:00:10And I say that because so often, you know, changes

3:00:13that we make, by the way, any level of government makes

3:00:17sometimes take such a long time to actually come to fruition.

3:00:22It's like, you don't see the results sometimes

3:00:25of things for such a long time.

3:00:27But the urgency of the issues that we're all facing right now

3:00:31and we all acknowledge, would it not precipitate?

3:00:35Yeah, the right word, whatever, would it not compel us

3:00:38to is there a way that we could, that staff thought of?

3:00:43Did staff think about not requiring any parking minimums

3:00:48for residential within the downtown core

3:00:53for a time period because the urgency is now

3:00:57so that we can actually see about that

3:00:59as an immediate incentive to get more housing built?

3:01:10Sure, work I may start and then pass it over.

3:01:14You know, first of all, I have to say

3:01:15I was really excited about this process

3:01:17where we brought a zoning bylaw as part of a parking study

3:01:22and didn't recommend that staff go back and look at zoning.

3:01:25We broke down the walls and the silos

3:01:28and brought it all together and we were really excited

3:01:30because I think we just saved a year and a half of time.

3:01:33So I got to say that first.

3:01:37But then we'd have to look at the financial model

3:01:39because if we say there's zero parking,

3:01:44then the city's gonna have to potentially build

3:01:48another parking or park aid to cover that in the future.

3:01:52If two people come in with a 23 story building,

3:01:55150 units a pop, yada, yada, yada, we're short parking.

3:01:58So if that is the case, we'd have to certainly look

3:02:02at the financial model to see if that's a cost

3:02:06that the city's willing to take.

3:02:10Okay, thank you, Madam Chair.

3:02:13I guess in that assumption though, through you Madam Chair,

3:02:16in that assumption though,

3:02:18that a couple 23 story buildings,

3:02:20you're assuming though that everybody

3:02:24that wants to live in that building has to own a car.

3:02:27Like you're making that assumption, right?

3:02:29Like why would the city have to provide parking for people

3:02:33in that assumption?

3:02:35I'm sorry, you're only, you're suggesting

3:02:38that the city would have to build parking

3:02:40because you're assuming that everyone has to have a car

3:02:43to live in those buildings.

3:02:45When did market be able to dictate that?

3:02:51I'll maybe let Mr. Azadel conclude

3:02:53that the parking today that we've done,

3:02:56have recently done, said 0.85% of those units

3:03:00have a parking space.

3:03:02So thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:03:06Thank you to staff, Councillor Busuttil.

3:03:10Yes, thank you.

3:03:11And through you Madam Chair,

3:03:11and I thank you to Ms. Wauke for joining the table over there.

3:03:17I was intrigued by the delegation from Arcadis,

3:03:22just about the residential retrofits.

3:03:26And I guess I'm hoping you can walk me through.

3:03:29And I think you already answered this,

3:03:31that there's site-specific zoning amendments

3:03:35and conversations that can happen,

3:03:37but just at a very high level, not specific.

3:03:40If a developer came in and said,

3:03:41we want to convert this, it is possible to do.

3:03:45And it is possible to achieve the same outcome

3:03:48as the June 7th, 1971 exemption.

3:03:53And I guess for me, what is rooted here,

3:03:56for me, I use the word affordability crisis,

3:03:59housing crisis.

3:04:00And what I really caught that you said,

3:04:02that I really respect is that,

3:04:04it is a conversation with the developer.

3:04:07And I'm really concerned about blanket exemptions

3:04:10because now you've eliminated that opportunity

3:04:13to have a conversation with the developer

3:04:16about our needs and about affordability.

3:04:19And I would love to say that all developers

3:04:21understand affordability.

3:04:24I haven't seen that.

3:04:25So if you can walk me through that

3:04:27and just kind of reassure me that that is

3:04:32an outcome that's possible.

3:04:36Through the chair, to the counselor.

3:04:38So your train of thought is similar to what we're thinking,

3:04:43that absolutely a straight up development,

3:04:47the 0.85 was recommended based on a market rate.

3:04:52But there's absolutely a conversation to have,

3:04:54if someone is building affordable housing,

3:04:56then let's reduce that number.

3:04:59If someone's providing bus passes

3:05:01to the future residents of that building,

3:05:03let's talk about what the reduction can be

3:05:05so that it's not a blanket reduction

3:05:09where we're not seeing those elements

3:05:11that are key to the city,

3:05:12such as that really affordability is being implemented.

3:05:15So we're happy to have those conversations.

3:05:18We're with Mr. Zettel,

3:05:20we're going to be working on that cash and lieu of program

3:05:23and what it looks like.

3:05:24And if there's a tiered status for that as well,

3:05:26depending on what you provide,

3:05:28is probably something that we're going to be bringing back

3:05:30to council later this year

3:05:32and for final approval in the new year.

3:05:35So yes, we're happy to have those conversations.

3:05:39So that would apply for new builds

3:05:41as well as residential retrofit.

3:05:44And I know there's an additional step

3:05:45around the zoning change of a commercial employment

3:05:49kind of building,

3:05:50but that opportunity to have those conversations

3:05:53and arrive to something that's good for the community

3:05:56is something that you're open to.

3:05:59Through the chair, that is correct.

3:06:01Thank you.

3:06:04Thank you, Councillor Pustil.

3:06:06Councillor Goller.

3:06:08Thank you and through you Chair Ararok.

3:06:12I would like to go back to one of the questions

3:06:14from the delegate regarding the date of 1971.

3:06:17Could you help me understand what the rationale is

3:06:21for accepting parking requirements

3:06:23from building built before that date

3:06:25versus say buildings built before this year?

3:06:32Through the chair to Councillor Goller.

3:06:33So 1971 was when the city completed

3:06:36its first comprehensive zoning bylaw.

3:06:39Before 1971, there was no requirement for parking.

3:06:43So that's when the requirement for parking came into place.

3:06:47So anything prior to 1971 was grandfathered

3:06:49because they weren't required to do that.

3:06:51But since that time, parking in has shown

3:06:56that we do require parking for those residential units

3:06:58and that's why the change came about.

3:07:05I understand that and I appreciate it.

3:07:07And because of that, we have to maintain that exemption

3:07:13for that date.

3:07:14So is that correct?

3:07:15Or could we, for example, eliminate that date

3:07:17and say that there's no exceptions?

3:07:22Through the chair to Councillor Goller.

3:07:24So if we eliminate that date and we've not done the math

3:07:27or calculated all the buildings downtown

3:07:29that could then be converted from office space

3:07:33to residential and then what would that parking need be

3:07:38and how many parking spaces we may actually have to provide

3:07:41that are extra for residential parking.

3:07:43So that's not been done.

3:07:45But again, if they're converting a building

3:07:48and providing other measures that support

3:07:50a lower parking number, we're happy to look at that.

3:07:54And we're also looking at introducing the cash

3:07:56and loo of parking program so that they actually don't have

3:08:00to physically construct in most cases,

3:08:03which would be an underground parking space.

3:08:05Okay, okay.

3:08:06Thank you for that.

3:08:07So then I'd like to move ahead through your chair of work

3:08:11to the assumption that I'm hearing over and over again

3:08:16that the city must be responsible for providing parking spaces

3:08:21for residents who live downtown.

3:08:25We know that we have 5,000 students

3:08:28from Conestoga College coming.

3:08:29They told us that we're going to be international students.

3:08:31So we can presume that the vast majority of them

3:08:34will not be coming with a vehicle.

3:08:37So when we think about that,

3:08:39when we think about University of Guelph students

3:08:41who can also be here without a vehicle,

3:08:44and those are two big groups

3:08:49that are looking for places to live in Guelph,

3:08:52why are we thinking that we must provide parking for people?

3:08:56I mean, if there is a building, say 23 stories,

3:08:59and there's no parking requirement,

3:09:02the developer would choose to build

3:09:05whatever the market would command.

3:09:06Maybe they'll only, you know, 500 units,

3:09:09they'll build 50 parking spots

3:09:10because they think that's what they can sell.

3:09:13So how do we reconcile that?

3:09:16Why are we saying that we are responsible?

3:09:18We already have a limit of two hour parkings.

3:09:21So people will know that they cannot park in the streets

3:09:24and they cannot park overnight.

3:09:25If you park overnight, you get a $65 ticket.

3:09:27So it's not, I'm just trying to understand

3:09:31why we're assuming that the city is responsible

3:09:33for providing parking for everyone in the downtown core.

3:09:37Through you, Chair O'Rourke to Councillor Goller.

3:09:41So everything that we've seen through this study

3:09:44shows us what the current demand for parking is.

3:09:47So even if we decide to reduce the parking requirement

3:09:50in zoning bylaw, that doesn't mean that the demand

3:09:54is automatically going to decrease to zero

3:09:57or whatever it is.

3:09:58So there would be a time, at least until we move through

3:10:02sort of this transition period,

3:10:04there would be a demand for parking.

3:10:06So I mean, if the city doesn't provide it,

3:10:09that's also not good for our downtown

3:10:12in terms of like those potential residents

3:10:14are taking up the on-street parking spaces.

3:10:16They're taking up the spaces that are for visitors,

3:10:19are for employees.

3:10:20So if the residential units that are coming

3:10:23don't provide the parking that they would demand.

3:10:26And again, all of the utilization work

3:10:28that we did for buildings in the downtown

3:10:31showed that the utilization rate is 0.85.

3:10:34So if those units aren't providing those residential spaces,

3:10:38then they'll happen somewhere

3:10:42and it's either gonna happen to the detriment

3:10:44of other existing uses downtown

3:10:46or the city's gonna have to provide those parking spaces

3:10:50and pay for those parking structures.

3:10:51So, okay.

3:10:53Okay, I understand that, that is the current state.

3:10:57What I'm trying to reconcile is when I see

3:10:59that downtown Kitchener has no parking minimum requirements

3:11:02in their downtown core,

3:11:04that means that developers are building

3:11:06to what they think they'll be able to sell

3:11:09without parking spaces.

3:11:11And there are other communities.

3:11:12There's about what 35 communities across North America

3:11:15that no longer have parking requirements for building.

3:11:19So I'm trying to understand when we look at the status quo

3:11:22and we say this is the number of parking spaces

3:11:27that are needed in Guelph today

3:11:29and in parking lots for developments,

3:11:32are we also looking at those other communities

3:11:34and we say, how does Kitchener get away

3:11:36with having no parking requirements?

3:11:38How do these other communities manage to do it?

3:11:42But we're not looking at what they're doing

3:11:48and how they make it work.

3:11:53Through the chair of the Councillor Goller.

3:11:54So one thing I'll say is we just certainly worked

3:11:57with the third party consultant

3:11:59who has expertise across sort of North America

3:12:01and the way that they review

3:12:02and conclude some of the recommendations in the report.

3:12:06So we certainly look at other cities.

3:12:07If you think about Kitchener-Warloo, for example,

3:12:09as neighbors, their city is slightly different than Guelph.

3:12:13They have an LRT, they have a different density

3:12:17in terms of jobs and institutions downtown,

3:12:19but Guelph is growing and moving towards these things.

3:12:21So the downtown parking master plan tries to reflect

3:12:23sort of that prudent step in the right sort of direction

3:12:26for now and then comes back and says,

3:12:28and in five years we need to do this again

3:12:30when we know more with more certainty.

3:12:33Constructed colleges impact, two ALD goes impact.

3:12:36Where are we with the downtown reconstruction program,

3:12:39et cetera.

3:12:40And so it really is trying to bridge the gap

3:12:42to a period in time where we have a better understanding

3:12:45of all of the different elements that impact it.

3:12:47And again, appreciating Guelph is slightly different

3:12:49than maybe Mississauga or GTA or those other areas.

3:12:55Okay, okay.

3:12:56Thank you.

3:12:57Thank you very much for that.

3:12:58I really appreciate that this is a stage approach

3:13:01and that we have to do move forward.

3:13:04I would like as a request, you mentioned that you will be

3:13:08coming back to talk more about the cash in the program

3:13:10and that it's not always just cash.

3:13:12It's benefits in lieu is what I understand.

3:13:16I would like that to have a real consideration of,

3:13:19what are the conditions that require no parking minimums?

3:13:22Like you said, affordable housing, student housing,

3:13:25things like that.

3:13:26Thank you.

3:13:27Okay, Councillor Klassen and then Councillor Caton.

3:13:33Yes, thank you through you, Madam Chair to staff.

3:13:36My first question was asked and answered already.

3:13:40I did have a quick question just with regard to,

3:13:45there's a section on page six about affordability.

3:13:48And I thought that was really interesting.

3:13:50And I just hope that maybe you could say more about that.

3:13:56Through you, Madam Chair to the Councillor.

3:14:00So I don't have page six in front of me.

3:14:01I assume, and I will make this assumption,

3:14:03please correct me if I'm wrong.

3:14:05I assume you're talking about affordability

3:14:06in terms of the targeted permit programs.

3:14:08Okay, so some of the thinking in the downtown parking

3:14:11master plan is to create targeted programs,

3:14:16incentives and rates for groups that we heard

3:14:20through public consultation.

3:14:21So we have medical professionals downtown who come

3:14:24and go from medical offices who have a very unique need.

3:14:27We have an employment group of people working downtown

3:14:31who are adding to the vibrancy of downtown,

3:14:34but find our current rates.

3:14:36We have local businesses who would like to support

3:14:40the city's efforts to free up on street parking.

3:14:42And they would like sort of their employees in themselves

3:14:44to be able to come off the streets into off street facilities.

3:14:47So the notion is to work with the downtown board

3:14:51and with stakeholders to understand how can we create

3:14:55discounted or incentivized rates for particular groups

3:15:00that we could first solve some of their parking issues,

3:15:03but also as a strategy to move some of that parking

3:15:06off of the streets and into our underutilized

3:15:09off street facilities.

3:15:13Okay, great, thank you.

3:15:14And maybe I'll just pull back for a second,

3:15:17because I just, I wanna ask a bigger picture question.

3:15:20I just, I really do appreciate all the work

3:15:22that went into this strategy.

3:15:24Reading through it and asking questions,

3:15:27I realized that this is just so complex

3:15:30to try to meet the needs of so many different

3:15:32conflicting needs.

3:15:34And so I really saw that reflected in the report

3:15:37and the timeline.

3:15:38There's so many little pieces that I found really interesting

3:15:43and I can save those for the comments.

3:15:46But I did just wanna ask and to clarify,

3:15:48this is a strategy for a long period of time.

3:15:51So we have these, the big picture,

3:15:55how often are we gonna be checking in?

3:15:57Like, I know that this is an ongoing conversation.

3:15:59This is a living document.

3:16:01And I just think it's really important to talk about how,

3:16:05we're trying to address the needs of the future

3:16:07and how we are definitely going to need to continue

3:16:09to input as we learn more.

3:16:12And I just wanted to ask, what are those main touchpoints

3:16:16coming back to us in the next one year, two year,

3:16:19three year, five year, 10 year kind of planning timeline?

3:16:26The chair to councillor class.

3:16:28So in terms of best practice,

3:16:30the master plans are set to be renewed on

3:16:32or updated on a five year cycle.

3:16:35And so that would be the sort of most significant update

3:16:38in touch point with council.

3:16:39This master plan itself has a recommended set of tasks

3:16:42for staff to complete.

3:16:44And so certain tasks like the cash in the policy

3:16:48would also require us to come back to council

3:16:50and we're forecasting that for Q1 of next year.

3:16:53So it really just depends on sort of the topic

3:16:56at the same time.

3:16:58The master plan seeks to have us continue to modernize.

3:17:00We'll be collecting more data,

3:17:01we'll have better understanding of usage,

3:17:03we'll start to build in more technology and wayfinding

3:17:05and all of the good things that we covered

3:17:07in the presentation today.

3:17:08So as that information sort of comes to a point

3:17:12where it's appropriate to report, we would of course do that.

3:17:16Okay, then thank you.

3:17:18And I just have one more final question on that.

3:17:24And I don't know why this is cutting out so much.

3:17:26Maybe I have to talk a little closer.

3:17:30Well, actually asked the clerk to just have

3:17:32a public service announcement on the mics.

3:17:34Thank you, Chair O'Rourke.

3:17:36The mics are sensitive to voice distance,

3:17:39so further is better.

3:17:42And turning of heads, it's trying to cancel out

3:17:44a noise surrounding noises.

3:17:46So straight at the mic with a good distance

3:17:49between you and the mic will be most effective.

3:17:52Thank you.

3:17:53Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

3:17:54Councillor Glassom.

3:17:55I'm only slightly embarrassed and appreciate

3:17:57the clarification.

3:18:03My last question is then around the paid parking.

3:18:06I know you talked about the pay-in lieu,

3:18:09but there's a, I'm sorry, I have it right open

3:18:12in front of me.

3:18:13There's the develop recommendations

3:18:14for paid parking on street

3:18:16as infrastructure renewal projects complete.

3:18:18I'm just thinking about major infrastructure changes

3:18:21happening in the impact to businesses and to flow.

3:18:24And it's not just about parking,

3:18:27it's about how people will be accessing our businesses

3:18:29as we build these big projects in the oncoming years.

3:18:34Will we be hearing back with regard to that,

3:18:37you know, those new recommendations

3:18:40as we finish up that Baker Street project?

3:18:43And I think, yeah, it's page 11.

3:18:46It just says develop recommendations.

3:18:48I'm assuming that would come back to council.

3:18:51Through the chair to council class.

3:18:53And so the recommendations around paid on street parking

3:18:56certainly would come back to council.

3:18:57So our intention at this time to do that

3:18:59through the next cycle in terms of the master plan update

3:19:02itself, where we have a better understanding

3:19:04of the total downtown infrastructure renewal program.

3:19:06Baker Street itself is a little bit unique

3:19:08in terms of being at the gate already

3:19:10with the respect of that development,

3:19:11but stepping back to the whole broader downtown,

3:19:14you know, the recommendation on whether that's appropriate,

3:19:17we think will be in the next master plan.

3:19:28Okay.

3:19:30I think we're all learning how to use the tech.

3:19:33So appreciate everyone's flexibility.

3:19:37Councillor Katelyn, you're next on my list.

3:19:40Then I have no other questions.

3:19:43Is that correct?

3:19:43I'm just gonna take a look.

3:19:44Okay, Councillor Kerron.

3:19:46I know I have a couple going once.

3:19:50All right, you have time to think about it.

3:19:51Councillor Katelyn, take it away.

3:19:53Thank you very much through you, Chair Ork.

3:19:56So first off, I like the new tech.

3:19:58It's nice to not talk to a miniature version

3:19:59of the back of someone's head.

3:20:01So I love this.

3:20:02I can see faces.

3:20:03It's great.

3:20:04And I was just wondering, are there any estimates

3:20:06for how much the cash in lieu fees would help pay

3:20:09for infrastructure upgrades,

3:20:12transit or other municipal services needed

3:20:14for the new residential downtown

3:20:15and potentially save current residents property taxes?

3:20:23So through you, Madam Chair, to Councillor Katelyn.

3:20:27The current financial model that's been predicted

3:20:29with the growth numbers that we expect to see

3:20:32in residential downtown,

3:20:34we expect on average about $605,000 a year.

3:20:40That money needs to go into a dedicated parking reserve

3:20:43that's associated with that program.

3:20:44So that reserve will be quite prescriptive

3:20:48about what that funds can be used for in the future.

3:20:51It is likely ended to be for future capital projects

3:20:56related directly to parking.

3:20:57So I don't know that we can answer you yet

3:21:01until we know for certain the other uses

3:21:04that some of that funding can be used for,

3:21:06but primarily and perhaps exclusively,

3:21:09those funds in that reserve would be used

3:21:11for capital projects related to parking in the future.

3:21:16Thank you for that.

3:21:17And I said one final clarifying question.

3:21:20So when we talk about the cash in lieu program,

3:21:25this doesn't negate the necessity to build accessible parking

3:21:31by the provincial standards

3:21:33and they will still have to do those minimum parking spots.

3:21:36Correct?

3:21:39Through you, Madam Chair, to Councillor Katelyn.

3:21:40Yes, that is correct.

3:21:42Thank you very much.

3:21:44Thank you, Councillor Katelyn, Councillor Caron.

3:21:47Madam Chair, great report.

3:21:52I prefer to make data-driven decisions

3:21:54when there is a lot of data to digest in this report.

3:21:59Some very quantifiable, some very qualitative.

3:22:03In the technical report that's attached to the main report,

3:22:08a list of all the stakeholders was included.

3:22:10And in your presentation,

3:22:11you made reference to a lot of students,

3:22:14student housing, student faculty,

3:22:16or faculty for the university and the college,

3:22:21anticipating that that is a significant part of the growth

3:22:23but also demand for parking is very different

3:22:26for different types of housing.

3:22:29I noticed one of the stakeholders was from Conestoga,

3:22:32but I didn't notice any stakeholders

3:22:34from the University of Guelph,

3:22:35whether that's the Central Students Association,

3:22:38who are normally stakeholders

3:22:40on any of our transit decisions.

3:22:42And I just wondered whether that was still to come.

3:22:46Was it that they didn't participate, but they were invited?

3:22:51It's a significant demographic in our downtown.

3:22:56And just wondered about the stakeholder engagement

3:23:00with that particular group.

3:23:05Through you, Madam Chair, to Councillor Keran.

3:23:08Yes, the University Student Association

3:23:10is an important stakeholder in this work.

3:23:12We didn't engage them in the initial work

3:23:15when we worked with Conestoga College.

3:23:17We actually worked with a number of faculty and professionals

3:23:20at Conestoga College to understand their overall parking need

3:23:24and their parking behaviors.

3:23:26They also participated in the stakeholder workshop.

3:23:29The intention is, as we start to flesh out solutions

3:23:35for student parking, we would engage more broadly

3:23:38and make sure that the University Student Associations

3:23:40are joined in those conversations

3:23:42as we have the conversations with Conestoga College.

3:23:46Okay, great.

3:23:48Looking forward to having that additional data

3:23:50added to the decision-making and the conversation.

3:23:53Second question.

3:23:56We've, for decades, at least 20 years ago,

3:23:59we had a member of Council, Councillor Laidlaw,

3:24:01talking about the transformation of car ownership

3:24:05to other modes of transportation.

3:24:07But what we didn't envision is the rise of e-scooters,

3:24:11e-bikes, autonomous vehicles that,

3:24:15the need for personal transportation

3:24:18in all of its new forms,

3:24:21would still require some piece of real estate,

3:24:24albeit smaller than that of a car.

3:24:28In your, I didn't see anything in the report,

3:24:30and I know that a crystal ball

3:24:32and maybe a couple episodes of Star Trek in your mind,

3:24:35what other alternative modes of transportation

3:24:42are being talked about in your sector

3:24:47that haven't been invented yet?

3:24:51I know you don't have a crystal ball,

3:24:52but we're not talking about personal vehicles.

3:24:59We're, in the report, we're talking about

3:25:01the personal type of vehicles that exist today.

3:25:04But there's not, that may not be what we have 10 years,

3:25:0920 years from now.

3:25:11And we're making a long-term decision here.

3:25:12We're not making a decision for the next five years.

3:25:15We're making a much longer-term decision.

3:25:20So through you, Madam Chair to Councillor Caron.

3:25:23So I'll start not intending to be flippantly responding to you,

3:25:28but if I knew that answer,

3:25:30I could probably make a lot of money and retire.

3:25:34Other boards, invest in other boards.

3:25:36I will say this.

3:25:38From an industry perspective,

3:25:40a transportation perspective, obviously we look at,

3:25:43there's a lot of emerging technologies and solutions

3:25:46for microbiality and shared use, those sorts of things.

3:25:52If we go a little bit broader,

3:25:53there are of course now companies getting ready

3:25:56to launch services that are electric powered,

3:26:00vertical liftoff and landing sort of taxis

3:26:04that's happening in California.

3:26:06Expect to be in the marketplace by 2026, 2027.

3:26:08So I think my comment to you would be the master plan

3:26:14is trying to be as flexible and nuanced for the next five years,

3:26:19giving us an opportunity five years to come back

3:26:21and respond to how things have changed.

3:26:24Unfortunately, I don't know that I can predict for you

3:26:26what transportation will look like in 20 years in downtown Guelph.

3:26:32I appreciate that.

3:26:33And as I said, regardless of what it looks like,

3:26:36it still needs real estate on the ground.

3:26:37So I appreciate the fact that this does not presuppose

3:26:42and outcome to what that vehicle might look like.

3:26:45Thanks for the good work on this.

3:26:49Okay, thank you, Councillor Caron.

3:26:51I wanna go to Councillor Billings.

3:26:56Reading the report,

3:26:57I just had the one quick question about process

3:27:01and staff know what I'm talking about

3:27:02given the correspondence.

3:27:04So just high level, can council move an amendment

3:27:07to the zoning bylaws 95 and 2023 at this time?

3:27:16Sorry, Councillor Billings, we couldn't hear that very clearly.

3:27:19I'm just wondering if you could speak up

3:27:20or just sort of not move your head, I might help.

3:27:23Okay, and can you hear me?

3:27:26I can.

3:27:27Okay, so it's just the process question

3:27:30given the correspondence in our package.

3:27:32So can council move an amendment to the zoning bylaws

3:27:361995 and 2023 at this time?

3:27:45Through the chair to Councillor Billings.

3:27:49So the correspondence that you received on that

3:27:51is I think from the home builders

3:27:54is the one you're probably referring to.

3:27:56So the 1995 bylaw, yes, we can make that change.

3:27:59And yes, the 2023 bylaw is under appeal.

3:28:03It's under appeal at the OLT.

3:28:07So there is a little bit of conflict with that, absolutely.

3:28:11That it is under appeal,

3:28:15but we certainly want any decisions we make on laying use

3:28:18to be brought forward to the OLT at that time.

3:28:22The minister, when they approved our OP,

3:28:25provided policy direction for us to reduce parking

3:28:28in the downtown.

3:28:29So we're kind of in this, for lack of a better word,

3:28:32darned if we do and darned if we don't situation.

3:28:36If council wants us to move forward with a parking reduction,

3:28:39then I think we have to make our intention very clear

3:28:42that that's what we want to do.

3:28:45And we are trying to make it easier to build housing.

3:28:47We're trying to come up with what we can control

3:28:51through policies and programs.

3:28:54And one of it is a reduction in parking.

3:28:57And that's something that we can control

3:28:58and that we want to put forward.

3:29:01And the next step in the process is a cash and lieu program.

3:29:06Our hope is that the cash and lieu program is based on 0.85

3:29:09and not one, because then that doesn't help

3:29:12with affordability a little bit.

3:29:14So 0.85 does help with affordability.

3:29:17We have spent thousands and thousands of hours on housing

3:29:22and we do think this is a step to move that housing forward.

3:29:27And our hope is that it also moves affordable housing forward.

3:29:31So our ask is that we make our intentions clear.

3:29:36The decision's not to the end of the month.

3:29:38And obviously because it is an act of OLT hearing,

3:29:41there may be some further correspondence

3:29:42with council due to that.

3:29:45But we certainly would want it known

3:29:48that we do want to reduce parking in the downtown.

3:29:50And we're trying to follow the directions

3:29:51that we have been given.

3:29:53No, that's great through you, Madam Chair.

3:29:55I just wanted to touch base with staff given clause four

3:29:59and five, whether you wanted any changes to the wording.

3:30:03But if not, and you're comfortable,

3:30:05that's all I wanted to know.

3:30:06If you're comfortable with what we have in front of us.

3:30:14Okay, staff are indicating us, they are comfortable with that.

3:30:16Thanks very much, council.

3:30:17Okay, I just have a couple.

3:30:19All right, I just have one other quick question.

3:30:20And I've heard everything, I've read the report.

3:30:23I hear, Christa, I understand why staff are recommending

3:30:28the reduction to 0.85.

3:30:30However, we also know that the new build,

3:30:34so for example on Arthur Street, it's much closer to one.

3:30:38So I'm talking the parking requirement.

3:30:40It's much closer to one parking spot that's required.

3:30:44So is there any way that we could for the,

3:30:50so I'm not talking about affordable housing

3:30:52or student housing, but when we know

3:30:54there're gonna be market rate units,

3:30:57is there any way that we could require them,

3:30:59the parking in lieu to be at one instead of the 0.85?

3:31:09Through the chair to councillor Bill,

3:31:10and so the study that was conducted said 0.85

3:31:14is kind of the average number that we have.

3:31:16We certainly have developers

3:31:18who are providing market rate condos,

3:31:20especially that provide 1.25

3:31:23or provide much more than the one.

3:31:25So that can continue.

3:31:25There's no penalty at this point to providing more parking.

3:31:30So we expect some of those developments

3:31:33that are trying to ensure that they can sell the units,

3:31:35will probably have more parking.

3:31:38Okay, thanks, Christa.

3:31:42Thank you, okay.

3:31:44Any other questions?

3:31:44I have a couple of questions

3:31:46and then I know the mayor has an amendment.

3:31:48So that's how I'd like to proceed.

3:31:50So a couple of questions I have for staff.

3:31:53The first one is around the assumption that the city,

3:31:57this is page 124 in the actual plan.

3:32:02There seems to be an assumption

3:32:04that the city would have to provide

3:32:06electrical vehicle parking

3:32:10to the same amount as the zoning bylaw.

3:32:13So I'm just wondering,

3:32:15so we have an electric car and we charge it at home

3:32:17when we come into town,

3:32:18I don't need the city to pay for my power.

3:32:21So I'm just wondering if you can help me understand

3:32:24where the numbers come from.

3:32:26Cause these are big numbers around 250

3:32:31and then commenced to design 20% of the parking spaces,

3:32:33508 designed EV parking spaces.

3:32:36So why such a big number when people will soon be able

3:32:40to charge at what were formerly gas stations,

3:32:44they can charge at home,

3:32:45they can charge at a Canadian tire.

3:32:48So I'm just wondering why,

3:32:51why that the city, the taxpayer would subsidize

3:32:54someone else's fuel to this extent.

3:32:59So if you can just help me understand

3:33:01where that assumption is coming from,

3:33:02it seems like a really high number.

3:33:08So if I may share a work,

3:33:10is that to clarify the individual buildings

3:33:12parking requirement for the EV?

3:33:15No, I'm looking at section 7.6

3:33:20and it talks about,

3:33:21we currently have four EV parking spaces

3:33:23in each parkade downtown.

3:33:25So we have 12 EV spaces,

3:33:27then there's going to be a shortfall

3:33:29of approximately 250 EV parking spaces.

3:33:33Like is the assumption that the city will build

3:33:37those EV chargers or make them available?

3:33:40And I'm wondering why that number would be so high,

3:33:44when the private sector is doing it,

3:33:48and when the vast majority of people

3:33:50who have an EV are charging at home?

3:33:57So Chair Ork, I can say that the number that's provided

3:34:01is based on the 2023 bylaw,

3:34:05so that it's for individual developments

3:34:06to have a percentage provided on day one,

3:34:10and then the rough ends or the cable

3:34:14for the balance of parking, EV parking.

3:34:17Okay, so this is not the city providing those.

3:34:19What, my understanding is there's an expectation

3:34:22from the public that we will be providing

3:34:24more EV charging stations.

3:34:26If you could clarify that for me,

3:34:27what is the, what are the facts around that?

3:34:32What is our plan?

3:34:33And my question really is,

3:34:35yes, we need to provide more,

3:34:38just as we currently have at the library

3:34:39and a couple parks and those types of things,

3:34:42but do we need to provide this much?

3:34:44Like we don't currently provide people's gas.

3:34:50So to you, Chair.

3:34:54So I wanna clarify, so the EV charging stations

3:34:59that are located in our public facilities

3:35:01are actually run by a third party company.

3:35:03They come in, they install it,

3:35:05they are responsible to supply the service to the customer

3:35:10for whom they buy a membership and they pay for that use.

3:35:14In terms of supply, I think the zoning bylaw

3:35:16gives us guidance on where we may need to end up,

3:35:19and if we were doing future construction,

3:35:21we would wanna ensure that we can support it.

3:35:23But the parking group is working quite closely

3:35:26with the climate group with Brian Hoey,

3:35:28and I think we are of a similar mind,

3:35:31the two of us, that we would like to begin,

3:35:34monitor, assess usage,

3:35:36and only add actual capacity delivered

3:35:38by third party suppliers as the demand rose to it.

3:35:42If it turned out 10 years from now,

3:35:44we don't hit these numbers because supply

3:35:47of the services being supplied by the private industry,

3:35:49then I think that's fine.

3:35:50It's not a business that we wanna be into,

3:35:53but we wanna be able to ensure that if demand

3:35:56in the off-street facilities, based on the usage

3:35:59of the current third party services that are in place,

3:36:02is growing and we hear demand from customers,

3:36:05we would wanna ensure that we have the ability

3:36:07to add the capability for a third party supplier

3:36:11to come in and give that service.

3:36:13Okay, thank you.

3:36:14So we are not going to subsidize people's EV charging.

3:36:19Is what I'm hearing you say.

3:36:21We're not in that business.

3:36:22That is correct.

3:36:23Okay, great.

3:36:24Thank you.

3:36:26The other question that I have for staff

3:36:28is around Metrolinx assumption

3:36:31that they only need 70 parking spaces for GO train users.

3:36:37So our transportation master plan

3:36:41tries to reduce vehicle use within our city boundaries,

3:36:46but a lot of people actually prefer to maybe park downtown

3:36:52and then take the GO train into Toronto.

3:36:54It's a lot better way to travel.

3:36:57We know that people from the surrounding area,

3:37:00Fergus, or just out of Aberfoil, right?

3:37:03We know that people are going to do that.

3:37:05We know the first bus doesn't get to the GO train

3:37:10in time for people to catch that first GO train.

3:37:12So we know that people are going to wanna park

3:37:16to take the GO train,

3:37:17and that is part of a broader modal shift,

3:37:19not within our boundaries maybe, but broader.

3:37:23So what is our advocacy plan with Metrolinx

3:37:29to identify that?

3:37:30I mean, we're talking about overflow parking

3:37:32for apartment buildings if there's no provision of parking.

3:37:36I would anticipate there'd be significant overflow parking

3:37:39around the GO station.

3:37:41So what's our advocacy look like with Metrolinx?

3:37:44To me, the numbers don't seem to add up.

3:37:50To your chair or work.

3:37:52We advocate with Metrolinx through a few different avenues.

3:37:59Principally involved, probably by monthly, we have meetings

3:38:02and also Jennifer Juice Transportation Planning Group,

3:38:06which sits on a regional roundtable, meets regularly.

3:38:10So at this point, the Metrolinx study

3:38:15is the Metrolinx study, and we continue to work with them

3:38:18on all things enhanced rail service into the downtown.

3:38:22So we will continue to advocate

3:38:26and challenge them on their numbers.

3:38:28We challenge them on a number of things.

3:38:30So we'll just continue to stay on top of this file.

3:38:37Thank you.

3:38:37Okay, I'm in on real granular stuff,

3:38:40but it's things that I've heard from constituents.

3:38:44In fact, constituents who do now go into Toronto

3:38:47or Kitchener once or twice a month or once a week.

3:38:52So we know post COVID, there's a lot of hybrid work.

3:38:56These folks can't necessarily get a monthly pass

3:38:59because the monthly passes are sold out at Fountain

3:39:02and a number of lots, but the daily rate is $30,

3:39:06which is quite high.

3:39:08So what's the timing?

3:39:10I understand there's work to be done

3:39:12to better align the monthly pass system surges.

3:39:15Visually, you've heard the delegates say

3:39:20the parkade has lots of capacity,

3:39:23but people can't get a lower daily rate

3:39:27because the monthly parking passes are sold out.

3:39:30So how soon before we have an answer for those folks

3:39:33who are really trying to do the right thing?

3:39:35They're really trying, maybe it's raining

3:39:39and they don't want to take the e-scooter

3:39:40or whatever it is, seasonality, kids to get off

3:39:43and they're gonna drive.

3:39:45So if we're trying to encourage that mixed mode,

3:39:49what's the timeline to provide some relief in that respect?

3:39:53Because I've heard this from a few people.

3:39:57So to you, Chair Ork.

3:40:01In terms of a timeline, I think it's a near term piece

3:40:04of work that needs to be done as we review the rates.

3:40:07As you illustrate, there are a few operational challenges

3:40:11to overcome first.

3:40:13So many of our off-street facilities,

3:40:15well, all of our off-street facilities,

3:40:16of course, now are gated and controlled.

3:40:18So it's a way to identify that that person is arriving

3:40:21to take the GO train.

3:40:23And then some analysis around what revenue

3:40:26might be cannibalized from people who stay all day

3:40:28paying the full rate that we currently have in place

3:40:30and what does that look like?

3:40:32So there's a bit of tactical work to do,

3:40:35but in the operation we do hear a lot of feedback

3:40:39from customers that would like to see that service offered.

3:40:41So you can expect to see that perhaps not in time

3:40:46for the multi-year budget this fall,

3:40:48but certainly in the fee bylaw for the next.

3:40:51Okay, thanks, Mr. Zettel.

3:40:53I'm curious also, Mr. Salvatore raised the notion,

3:40:57and I heard from a couple of business owners downtown

3:40:59about how can we incentivize people to use the park aid?

3:41:03So clearly we want people to take transit or walk or bike,

3:41:07but some people are gonna drive, which is fine.

3:41:11And one of the downtown business owners said to me,

3:41:13what if the first hour or half hour in the park aid was free,

3:41:17then people wouldn't be circling,

3:41:18they'd go straight to the park aid,

3:41:20they would realize, oh, it's not that long a walk,

3:41:23and they would get used to that behavior.

3:41:25And then over time, you say, okay,

3:41:27it used to be the first hour, now it's the first half hour,

3:41:30now it's, you know, now you have to pay,

3:41:32and you think, well, it's three bucks.

3:41:34So have we looked at those kinds of nudge models

3:41:39to get people to maximize the utilization of the park aid?

3:41:45So through you, Chair, the master plan does outline

3:41:50a number of possible strategies to do that.

3:41:54I think the approach that would be most prudent

3:41:56is to pilot a number of different incentives like that,

3:41:59perhaps the first hour is free in an off-street facility,

3:42:01perhaps the first two hours.

3:42:02Of course, we want to be fiscally prudent

3:42:05so that we could identify is there a risk to the revenue

3:42:07that's being earned in that facility right now

3:42:09because most of our stays are under two hours.

3:42:13But certainly we can pilot a number of those things,

3:42:15track it, and understand what the data's telling us

3:42:17about change.

3:42:19Okay, thank you.

3:42:20In my last question, I know we want to believe

3:42:24that apartment buildings don't necessarily need parking,

3:42:27and we want to believe we're at that state.

3:42:30But this is a data-driven report.

3:42:33We know that when there's even a big conversation

3:42:36on transit, big consultation,

3:42:39well, the parking lot's full cars of people

3:42:41who were there to talk about transit

3:42:42or climate or other things.

3:42:44We know the cyclists want to drive to the trailhead

3:42:46so they can bike the gulf to Godridge, right?

3:42:50So do we have evidence that there is a wholesale change

3:42:56in behavior that people are no longer requiring

3:42:59a parking space?

3:43:01Is that what the data is telling you?

3:43:08To the chair, again, all our recommendations

3:43:11are out of real time, the last couple of months,

3:43:17golf examples, and even just the concept around students,

3:43:24I think we all agree there's definitely some student-oriented

3:43:27buildings up and down Gordon Street

3:43:29where we have our best transit,

3:43:31and we still see a similar rate of parking usage there.

3:43:35So I think we all agree,

3:43:39we'd love to get where we all want to go,

3:43:43but we're nudging in a direction.

3:43:46We're recommending a 15% reduction here today before you.

3:43:51And I don't anticipate that number increasing in the future,

3:43:57but we have to take the steps at the right time.

3:44:02Thank you, I appreciate that.

3:44:04All right, those are my questions.

3:44:06Any other questions?

3:44:09I'm gonna go back to Mayor Guthrie.

3:44:12Thank you, and through you,

3:44:13I just want to follow up on,

3:44:15I think Councillor Billings' question.

3:44:19So is there an ability for us to make an amendment

3:44:26around this 1971 business

3:44:30versus April 1st of this year,

3:44:33so that the existing stock of buildings

3:44:36in the downtown core that might be redeveloped

3:44:40for residential aren't held to a new,

3:44:44aren't held to the parking regime?

3:44:50Through the chair to Mayor Guthrie.

3:44:53We can look at that and report back with the,

3:44:56at the end of the month,

3:44:57so that there's more clarity around the purpose of 1971

3:45:01and the parking numbers tied to that.

3:45:04Okay, thank you.

3:45:05As long as there's like a memo that comes back

3:45:07that touches on that,

3:45:08I think that would help not only myself,

3:45:10but probably some others around that question too.

3:45:12So thank you very much.

3:45:15And then I just a follow up question about this,

3:45:18your own question, Chair.

3:45:21Staff indicated that they might look

3:45:23at doing some pilot projects about the nudge,

3:45:25as you would call it,

3:45:27for people to be using the park gates.

3:45:29So when is that gonna happen?

3:45:36Through you, Chair O'Rourke.

3:45:38I apologize, America.

3:45:40I only heard the second half of your.

3:45:42That's okay, it was the best half.

3:45:44Okay.

3:45:46My question was, is that Chair O'Rourke

3:45:49asked a question about what kind of nudges or incentives

3:45:51we could give to people to try to be more using

3:45:55the park gates,

3:45:57especially if they're coming to frequent the downtown

3:45:59more often.

3:46:02And you indicated as your answer

3:46:04that there could be some pilot projects

3:46:05in regards to those opportunities

3:46:08and that you would report back.

3:46:09So my question was, when is that gonna happen?

3:46:13Now, three year Chair O'Rourke to Mr. Mayor.

3:46:17I expected that was some of those things

3:46:19were already in planning.

3:46:20So we've had conversations with downtown stakeholders

3:46:23with the DGBA and just intern at work.

3:46:26You'll likely start to see a lot of those piloting exercises

3:46:30begin as soon as the master plan is approved.

3:46:32We've kind of held off on some of them,

3:46:34knowing that this was coming to council now.

3:46:37Once it's approved, it would go into work plan

3:46:38and we'd start to execute those things.

3:46:41Okay, and would you at least have a little bit

3:46:44of a communication thing about that to not only us,

3:46:46but to the public and just so everyone knows

3:46:50that the stuff is, yes, you'd have a whole communication

3:46:52plan for that.

3:46:53Yeah, okay, all right, thank you.

3:46:55And then, I don't know how you wanna do this, Chair,

3:46:59but I do have an in-camera component to this

3:47:03that I would like to ask a few questions.

3:47:05So I don't know if I'm happy to have this part wrapped up

3:47:09and then we can move in camera if that would be okay,

3:47:12just to ask some further questions,

3:47:15or if you would like to do in-camera further questions

3:47:18and then come back and wrap it up.

3:47:21My questions are not based on anything

3:47:24that would deal with what's in front of us here.

3:47:28It still has to do with parking downtown,

3:47:31but it has nothing to do that would amend what's here.

3:47:34Okay, so I just need to know under which clause

3:47:39we would be going into close,

3:47:40whether it was advice from a solicitor

3:47:43or whether it was disposition.

3:47:46Yeah, it would be, I think both,

3:47:50I know our deputy CAO had mentioned

3:47:53that that wording would be available for us,

3:47:54so I'm happy to go to our deputy CAO

3:48:00to help with that,

3:48:02but again, I just wanna be really clear for everyone.

3:48:04In my view to the clerk,

3:48:06from a process point of view and to you as the chair,

3:48:09I am happy to wrap up this conversation.

3:48:12I just have a further parking question

3:48:15as I'm not even looking for direction camera,

3:48:19but I am looking for some questions to be tabled

3:48:22and maybe some more information,

3:48:23but that has to be an in-camera discussion,

3:48:25but it wouldn't amend or do anything

3:48:29with what's in front of us and live on the floor right now.

3:48:31Right, so I think that we need a motion to go into close.

3:48:35We actually were going to break for dinner at 5.30 anyways,

3:48:39but then we need to come back to vote in the event

3:48:42that anything discussed in close

3:48:43would generate more questions or amendments

3:48:45or anything here, right?

3:48:47Because the matter's on the floor.

3:48:49So if-

3:48:50Yeah, that's what I'm asking you.

3:48:51If you wanna do it in that route, that's fine with me.

3:48:53Yeah, so what I would suggest is that we

3:48:56have the motion to go into closed.

3:49:00And so I just know which clause that is.

3:49:03Yeah, oh, thank you.

3:49:03For the municipal act.

3:49:04Thank you.

3:49:05We can go into closed just for people

3:49:07who are following at home,

3:49:08following closed will take a 30-minute dinner break.

3:49:12Okay, we were gonna take a 30-minute dinner break at 5.30,

3:49:15then we'll come back.

3:49:17We will close out the parking master plan conversation

3:49:21and then we will go back to the first closed.

3:49:24Okay, so-

3:49:27So I would just ask through you Madam Chair for,

3:49:29I don't know if staff have the wording

3:49:31that could come up for council to consider.

3:49:33Yes, it's coming up.

3:49:36Thank you, Chair O'Rourke.

3:49:38We will make some notes and put them on the slide

3:49:41so we can hold them up,

3:49:42but the motion would effectively be in relation obviously

3:49:45to the agenda topic being downtown parking master plan

3:49:49that council of the city of Guelph now hold a public,

3:49:52or a meeting that is closed to the public

3:49:53pursuant to section 239 to C of the municipal act

3:49:57relating to proposed depending acquisition

3:49:58disposition of land.

3:50:00And also I believe we would be adding in clause D,

3:50:04labor relations and employee negotiations.

3:50:06I believe that's also was part of the factor as well,

3:50:08Mayor Guthrie.

3:50:13It could be, it wasn't my intention for that,

3:50:15but I guess it could be if one dominoes to the next,

3:50:19then I guess you could put that in as cover, but-

3:50:21And there also will be Chair O'Rourke

3:50:23likely legal staff joining as well.

3:50:25So there may be to receive advice

3:50:28that is subject to solicit or client privilege,

3:50:29including communications for that purpose.

3:50:31And that's clause 24 of section 239.

3:50:34So yes, please.

3:50:35Those would be adequate then, thank you.

3:50:43Okay.

3:50:45So I need a motion, I need a seconder.

3:50:47Councillor Bruce Till, does anyone oppose

3:50:50to moving into closed session?

3:50:52See no one opposed.

3:50:54So we'll go to closed.

3:50:55If you were following at home or you're in the gallery,

3:50:58we're going to have a conversation meeting.

3:51:00Then we're gonna have dinner break.

3:51:02My expectation is we should be back around six.

3:51:06So that would give you some time to then go

3:51:08and get some dinner of your own.

3:51:10And we will meet back here.

3:51:12Thank you.

3:51:13We're enclosed.

4:38:07Okay. If I can just ask people to take their seats,

4:38:09we'll start in about a minute.

4:39:02Great.

4:39:04Welcome back folks.

4:39:06We did have a closed meeting of council.

4:39:09Just prior to a brief dinner break,

4:39:11we received information from staff,

4:39:14but no direction was given.

4:39:15So we'll resume the open portion of our meeting.

4:39:19Are there any other questions for staff

4:39:21on the motions that are on the floor?

4:39:24Mayor Guthrie.

4:39:26Thank you.

4:39:27Yes, I just have just some questions of staff

4:39:29as a potential takeaway,

4:39:31if that's how they want to treat it through Madam Chair.

4:39:34But I also have sort of a comments

4:39:38that I would love to have as well if possible.

4:39:41It doesn't have to be right away.

4:39:42It depends on if others want to speak first.

4:39:45That's fine.

4:39:46So I guess I just wondered through you,

4:39:49if we've been told a memo might come back,

4:39:52which is kind of normal practice.

4:39:53It's been really great actually.

4:39:54Sometimes stuff comes up at committee.

4:39:56It's you hear us and you bring back something

4:39:59for the end of the month.

4:40:00So I really appreciate that.

4:40:02I'm wondering if you could capture something

4:40:06along the lines of the first one would be,

4:40:09what would point five parking ratio look like?

4:40:15And what's the sort of domino effect of that?

4:40:17If you could help me on that.

4:40:22The second thing was,

4:40:25do we have to wait until February,

4:40:28I think we heard where this cash in lieu

4:40:32for parking is coming back?

4:40:34Do we have to wait for that moment in February

4:40:39to give direction if we wanted to now,

4:40:44well at the end of the month,

4:40:46say we want to make sure that there's no parking requirements

4:40:50for affordable housing and or supportive housing

4:40:53and whatever you would feel.

4:40:55So sort of everything that's non-market residential.

4:41:00I'm just thinking that maybe my colleagues and I

4:41:02are of the opinion that we don't need to wait for that.

4:41:05Like let's make that decision now.

4:41:08And just in case between now and like,

4:41:10by the end of February, March comes along,

4:41:12there are these options for affordable

4:41:15and supportive housing and other types of housing

4:41:16where we would not want to require parking anyways.

4:41:19Let's just make that decision is just kind of where I'm going.

4:41:23And then the final one is,

4:41:31and this is where my comments would come in,

4:41:33I'll just state this as the takeaway now

4:41:35and then I'll go back to you Madam Chair,

4:41:36but is around the no parking minimums

4:41:43and why we did not decide to do that.

4:41:47And what would the financial

4:41:54impact be then on the tax base if we did that?

4:41:59Because then we would be foregoing the cash in loop, right?

4:42:02So I guess I want to understand what that difference is

4:42:10because I have no idea what that would be.

4:42:12So if you could just do the math on that for us,

4:42:13I think that would help us have a clear line of sight

4:42:16as to what would the investment be from the tax base

4:42:22to accommodate no parking,

4:42:25but the trade off would then could be other benefits.

4:42:28I just wouldn't mind a little bit of some dialogue on that

4:42:32with that information.

4:42:33That's it, thank you.

4:42:34I know Councillor Goller, I think was thinking

4:42:37along the same lines of some of those questions

4:42:39and but I see WPCA homes hand up.

4:42:43So through you Madam Chair, go ahead.

4:42:45Thank you.

4:42:46So through the chair,

4:42:47I'm such some clarification on the first one, Mr. Mayor,

4:42:49just the 0.5 parking ratio.

4:42:52Are there, is that for affordable housing?

4:42:54Is that, does that take heights into consideration?

4:42:57I just, there's a lot of different scenarios.

4:42:59So just given the limited amount of time

4:43:01that we have to get a memo to you

4:43:02because we want you to make a informed decision,

4:43:04are there certain things that you want us to take into account?

4:43:08So thank you through you Madam Chair.

4:43:11I get my point is, is that first of all,

4:43:14if between now and the end of the month,

4:43:16for some reason, if staff were of the opinion

4:43:19that we don't have to wait till February to say yes

4:43:23to no parking minimums for supportive housing,

4:43:26affordable housing, senior students,

4:43:28I don't know what the criteria would be,

4:43:30but there is a number that staff want to hold on to

4:43:36for market-based residential.

4:43:41It's that portion of 0.5.

4:43:44I would like to understand what it would be.

4:43:47And is that, is that bring the clarity?

4:43:49Is that okay?

4:43:50That's interesting.

4:43:51Okay, okay, thank you.

4:43:53Okay.

4:43:54Councillor Goller has comments.

4:43:56Anybody else?

4:44:01Thank you through your chair or work.

4:44:03Well, thank you for all the work that staff has done on this.

4:44:07I think it's quite promising.

4:44:10I am particularly appreciative of the recommendation

4:44:14for a parking permit system

4:44:18for the neighborhood surrounding downtown.

4:44:21A lot of my constituents have been asking for that,

4:44:23so I'm very grateful that that is included

4:44:24and that is something that is moving ahead right away.

4:44:27So I really appreciate that.

4:44:29I do have concerns, however,

4:44:33as was raised by the delegates

4:44:35from the Guelph Coalition for Active Transportation

4:44:38that we're not putting enough incentives to make that shift.

4:44:43And I am hardened by the comments from Ms. Joaquin and Amy

4:44:49that in the coming months,

4:44:52we're going to consider that cash and loop program

4:44:55will consider given those benefits.

4:45:00However, I am concerned that we're approving this now

4:45:04and that may not come for the next six months a year.

4:45:10So I'm really struggling here with whether this goes far enough.

4:45:16With the consultants, when we met with council,

4:45:19I asked, well, what about those municipalities

4:45:22that have had no parking requirements?

4:45:24And in the report, I don't see that reflection.

4:45:26I feel that we are building this based on the current state today

4:45:32but not really looking at the future

4:45:34and that is really concerning to me,

4:45:36you know, five years, 10 years on the road.

4:45:38How do we achieve that model shift to get people

4:45:43to not require the private car

4:45:47if we keep on building private parking spaces

4:45:51with every development?

4:45:52So this is where I'm really struggling.

4:45:54So I will be voting in support at this point,

4:45:58but depending on what that staff member says

4:46:01at the end of the month,

4:46:02I may not be supporting the recommendation

4:46:04at the end of the month

4:46:05because I am concerned that we are moving too slowly

4:46:08to support that model shift and moving too slowly

4:46:12to encourage and support the building of affordable

4:46:16and housing in our downtown corner.

4:46:21Thank you.

4:46:22Councillor Klassen.

4:46:24Thank you.

4:46:28I just wanted to say thank you.

4:46:30I think there are some great considerations

4:46:33for the infrastructure upgrades that are going to be happening

4:46:37and what that might do to small businesses in the short term.

4:46:40And I do see that reflected here in the plan

4:46:43and I am grateful for that.

4:46:47And I just wanted to say thanks for your work on this.

4:46:51Thank you, Councillor Klassen.

4:46:53Councillor Allt.

4:46:54Thank you very much, Chair Awerke.

4:46:56Thanks very much to staff.

4:46:59I think what you've done so far has been very respectful

4:47:02of businesses, residents, visitors to downtown

4:47:05and recognizes as well,

4:47:07I believe that we are addressing multimodal issues.

4:47:10As a cyclist, my dream is to reduce traffic as much as possible.

4:47:15But I also have to recognize that we must acknowledge that downtown,

4:47:20the downtown is going to be redeveloped

4:47:22and that we have reduced parking with this particular scenario.

4:47:26There are many variables, many balls up in the air right now

4:47:29that we can't really factor in.

4:47:32So in the future, I look forward to what we will do

4:47:35with relationship to parking.

4:47:38But concerns like Conestoga and the uncertain variables of parking

4:47:42and also the future of even cars.

4:47:44I'm not unlike Councillor Cronin,

4:47:47not going to be taking my transporter beam out of this holodeck

4:47:50anytime soon.

4:47:51But I think it is worthwhile for us to consider

4:47:54what the changes will be to public transit

4:47:59and other forms of transportation.

4:48:01So to revisit parking in the future,

4:48:03once many of these uncertainties have been being addressed,

4:48:06I think is really important.

4:48:08But right now, I think staff have done a very, very good job

4:48:11of getting us to a solid recommendation

4:48:13that addresses all of the factors and the concerns

4:48:16that we need to deal with in the downtown area.

4:48:19We must recognize there is a lot of unintended consequences

4:48:23and that if we do not look forward to what some of those will be,

4:48:28especially with one very big elephant in the downtown,

4:48:32which is Conestoga College, and it's a good elephant,

4:48:35we're going to have some serious problems.

4:48:38So I think in this case, we should go very, very slow

4:48:42and an evolutionary parking policy

4:48:44as opposed to a revolutionary parking policy,

4:48:47I believe will serve the public well.

4:48:50Councillor Poustill.

4:48:52Thank you.

4:48:53I'm going to speak a little bit as a new Councillor

4:48:56and as a new Councillor the day after being...

4:48:59I didn't move.

4:49:01I've seen a lot of developer interest-driven development

4:49:05and I really want to say thank you to the staff

4:49:08because you speak to the whole city, the whole community,

4:49:13the interests of the public,

4:49:15and I just want to say thank you for that.

4:49:17And I look for a balance sheet, right,

4:49:20the interests of development, but the public interest.

4:49:22Who is the keeper of the public interest?

4:49:25So I'm very reassured by, you know,

4:49:27Christos' comment and planning about the focus

4:49:30on the common good and the public interest.

4:49:33I do not support a blanket kind of exemption.

4:49:37I think that is one of very few disappearing sticks

4:49:40and ways that our staff can engage developers

4:49:44to have conversations about our community's best interests.

4:49:47So I really am pleased to have heard that

4:49:51and I'm going to advocate for that to stay in place.

4:49:54Thank you.

4:49:56I believe Councillor Caitlin, did you have your hand up?

4:49:59Yeah. Thank you through you to staff.

4:50:03I really like the balance here.

4:50:06Personally, I was for paid on-street parking,

4:50:10but I can see that with the construction downtown

4:50:14and a lot of the infrastructure upgrades

4:50:16that, you know, waiting on that piece

4:50:18until we have more parking options

4:50:21is going to be better for the businesses downtown.

4:50:23So I think that's a good compromise there.

4:50:26And I just wanted to kind of put forth that I know that

4:50:30the funds for the cash and Lou are meant to go towards more parking,

4:50:34but if we are going to be moving towards a kind of an incremental

4:50:38less and less parking model,

4:50:40then I think putting it towards transit and other parking alternatives

4:50:45might be a way to achieve that goal faster.

4:50:48Thank you, Councillor Caitlin. Councillor Gibson.

4:50:55Councillor Cork, I just want to confirm everyone can hear me okay.

4:50:58I'm on these earbuds.

4:51:00Are you okay? Okay.

4:51:02If you could speak up, it's helpful.

4:51:04It sounds a little tinny on our end.

4:51:06I'm feeling with the cold this week.

4:51:08So thank you to staff for the time spent putting this together.

4:51:13I know it's not a small short-term project.

4:51:15This is a long-term and long-visioned project.

4:51:18I do support the payment and Lou idea.

4:51:20I do support reducing parking in the downtown core specifically

4:51:23to try and help with affordable housing starts.

4:51:26There are two comments that I do two comments that I'm going to make though,

4:51:29and this is not reflected on my vote.

4:51:31I am going to support this,

4:51:32but the first one is the one the comment through the report about climate resiliency.

4:51:36And I've been getting a lot of pushback in the community about what are you doing

4:51:40and what are you not doing?

4:51:41Are we doing it or are we not?

4:51:42And sometimes I think the comment around climate resiliency,

4:51:46there's a disconnect there.

4:51:47We're subsidizing what quote unquote three parking in the downtown for the next five years.

4:51:52So we're not encouraging the modal shift.

4:51:54Like we say, we are going to do.

4:51:56So to say that it's a climate resolution decision.

4:51:59I don't see the connection there.

4:52:01And I know that I didn't ask these questions because I didn't want to get into the debate,

4:52:05but I really don't see the connection towards the decision we're making today

4:52:09and having more climate resilient city in the future when we're really not promoting the modal shift too much.

4:52:14The second piece again, this is not, this is not taking away my vote.

4:52:18I'm supporting this file.

4:52:19This is just a comment for staff.

4:52:22The second piece is, you know, I have the privilege of being here in 2018 when we last talked about this file.

4:52:29When we put a line item in our budget to go by parking meters for downtown,

4:52:33even though we talked about not implementing paid on street parking for the time being,

4:52:38we were still going to buy the equipment.

4:52:40So we were right on the threshold of making that decision to reduce the taxpayer funded parking in the downtown.

4:52:48And we backed down on that decision a few months later.

4:52:51I was disappointed at the time, but I knew that this review was coming.

4:52:55And while I acknowledge the understanding and acknowledge the rationale to not bring it back until 2028,

4:53:04because of the disruptions in the downtown,

4:53:06I just wanted to point out the language in the report and how far we have come from implementing paid on street parking in the downtown where five years ago,

4:53:15we talked about buying the equipment and installing it over time,

4:53:21only to back it off and take it out of the budget.

4:53:23Today, the line in the report says or the line in the presentation says in 2028,

4:53:28we're going to investigate the appropriateness of implementing on street paid parking.

4:53:33Not in 2028, we're going to implement on street parking.

4:53:37Not even in 2028, we're going to investigate implementing paid parking.

4:53:42It's now we're going to investigate the appropriateness of paid on street parking.

4:53:48I've been around city hall long enough.

4:53:50I can read the language that is that is a lot of language that speaks to how far we have drifted from considering moving to an elevated parking system in the downtown, one that is paying for itself.

4:54:06So, I'm exhausted, but I'm just pointing out that that's that's lying which has historically been a lot stronger.

4:54:15And it seems very passive at this point to be talking five years from now, as we're only we're only committing to investigating the appropriateness of implementing parking in five years.

4:54:26I feel like we're moving away from it.

4:54:28So the point where I don't even want to talk about.

4:54:31Thanks.

4:54:33Any other comments.

4:54:37John.

4:54:38Thanks.

4:54:40Sorry, I know on screen it's hard for you as chair to see those of us who have our hands up.

4:54:45So, thank you.

4:54:47What I what really resonated with me for this report and the presentation was the word ecosystem.

4:54:55The synergy between business needs and uses residential needs and uses institutional needs and uses.

4:55:05Institution, including city hall, as well as the surrounding area. So like counselor Guller, I'm really happy to hear that a permitting system in what used to be part of the old ward five we counselor downer and I would get all kinds of complaints about people who just couldn't have

4:55:22deliveries and have family over Monday to Friday because it was it was a parking lot for about a half a kilometer from the downtown.

4:55:30So that that ecosystem analogy really resonated with me and so I just want to thank staff for again and reiterating my colleagues comments balance.

4:55:42This the outcome of this really needs to be about balance serving as many needs as possible and that's our role as council as well is to ensure we have as many of our constituencies covered in the decisions that we make.

4:55:57So, thanks.

4:56:00Thank you, counselor Cron.

4:56:02So I will echo.

4:56:04You have more to say.

4:56:07Yes, I just was waiting to do my comments because I did my questions and then I apologize. I thought you'd piggyback your comments.

4:56:14Go ahead.

4:56:15Is it okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Well everyone knows I'm kind of passionate about this issue. I'm a little not. I'm a little bit not on side on the direction that this is.

4:56:27I feel like contrary to my colleague across the aisle here that we do need a revolution when it comes to parking.

4:56:37And, you know, I speak. I speak that way because I so often hear us speak about race to zero. Well, it's not slow to zero. It's raised to zero. You got to go fast.

4:56:52And that's what a revolution would require of us, not just from a climate perspective as counselor Gibson just brought up those issues, but but also with with a housing issue on our hands as well.

4:57:06And I've been doing a lot of research. I'm just going to bear with me here.

4:57:10It's good.

4:57:12Speak about some of the reports that I've been reviewing from other cities.

4:57:16This is from April of this year says the current parking regulations are onerous and complicated for staff and the public to understand implement and regulate parking minimums have.

4:57:28The parking minimum have contributed to urban sprawl lack of abundant and affordable housing automobile dependency.

4:57:35The proposal is to eliminate parking minimums from this zoning will not prohibit property owners from building parking spaces on their property.

4:57:44Moreover, this changes will allow property owners to determine the amount of parking that is needed to support their proposed development and allow the market to determine the appropriate amount of parking.

4:57:58Our cities goals and objectives and strategies to create a thriving environment and equitable transportation network and inclusive housing parking minimums in the zoning ordinance are considered an auto centric approach to development.

4:58:12This is a plan that can cause harm to both quality of our air and water through automobile exhaust road runoff reduce the amount of land available for housing and commercial uses.

4:58:23Eliminating parking space minimums help reduce urban heat improve water quality and increase the amount of land available for reduce for redevelopment by reducing the eliminating and eliminating the practice of having the government direct the amount of parking a development needs.

4:58:40This plan strives to create a safe reliable equitable and sustainable transportation network that prior prioritizes the people over vehicles. Government mandated parking minimums ensure that parking is provided even if the parking is not needed.

4:58:59Off street parking spaces especially those in structures are expensive requiring parking spaces based on the number of dwelling units on floor areas can directly increase the costs for residents and business owners.

4:59:13The space used for parking cars takes away space that could be used for additional housing.

4:59:21Parking minimums can be a cost burden on small businesses and discouraging them from establishing here in our city.

4:59:29Furthermore apartment dwellers in another report proposed projects that had fewer parking spaces and it lowered the cost of construction.

4:59:43So such projects began offering rents below the market's established levels new studio apartments which typically went for $1,200 a month in the city are now being offered for less than $1,000 a month.

4:59:58Some have tied new policies specifically to spur on affordable housing.

5:00:03Seattle this past spring eliminated parking requirements for all nonprofit affordable housing developments in the city among other provisions.

5:00:12A couple of years ago Portland, Oregon waived parking requirements for new developments containing affordable housing near transit in 2016 New York eliminated parking requirements for subsidizing senior housing and in large swaths of the city also done by transit.

5:00:28Another report we prefer to build houses for people and not cars when it comes down to choosing space for people or parking we're going to choose people.

5:00:43Affordable housing projects with their lower rent revenue streams are already challenging to finance.

5:00:49So parking is an increasingly key factor in whether or not a project works financially but to developers reducing or removing parking requirements does not mean eliminating parking supply.

5:01:02It simply allows developers to decide how many spaces built on the market and the location and demand.

5:01:09Madam Chair I could go on and on and on there are hundreds of cities in North America now hundreds that have removed parking requirements and as I said in one of my questions to staff.

5:01:24The amount of space that a parking takes 1.5 spaces is equivalent to a 900 square foot apartment that could house somebody.

5:01:36And in a housing crisis I think we should be doing everything we can to encourage more roofs over people's head than for parking mandates.

5:01:48And so with that I cannot support this as it is.

5:01:53I will wait for the memo for the end of the month.

5:01:56If we believe in climate change action which we say we do as a council if we believe that we are in a housing crisis if we believe in we want affordable housing.

5:02:08Then we should be revolutionary in regards to the parking.

5:02:13We should get rid of it and allow the market to determine it and open up our downtown core for the most walkable pedestrian focus type of area and not accommodate the automobile all the time.

5:02:27And so I'm going to end because I wrote this down because I found this quote from a mayor in Spain.

5:02:34It's not my duty as mayor to make sure you have a parking spot.

5:02:39For me it's the same as if you bought a cow or a refrigerator and then asked me where you're going to put them.

5:02:45And I feel exactly the same way here.

5:02:48We should not be forcing people to have an automobile to have to live somewhere in the city and especially in the downtown core.

5:02:56I think we can as a council really embrace all the aspirational things that we want to embrace about housing and climate change and more.

5:03:06And we can do it through less parking.

5:03:10And so hopefully between now and the end of the month maybe I can have some more conversations about it.

5:03:14The memo might inform us including myself even more.

5:03:17But I really think this is a shot for this term of council Madam Chair.

5:03:22This term of council to say we're not going to accommodate the automobile and we're going to help people housing.

5:03:31And I'm hoping that we can get there at the end of the month. Thank you very much.

5:03:35Councillor Bustel.

5:03:37Yes thank you. I just want to say thank you to the mayor for all the independent research.

5:03:41Would it be okay to share those links so that I can do my own kind of reading or all of council do because I always need the context when I read things.

5:03:50Thank you. Thank you again.

5:03:54Okay. Any other comments? I don't see anything online. Looking around the room. All right.

5:04:01Oh. All right. Councillor Chew.

5:04:07I'm a little sick so I'm not going to speak for too long but I just want to echo some of the sentiments that the mayor has shared.

5:04:15I and Councillor Cain as well for the matter of fact I do think we can be a little bit more aggressive with how we go about downtown parking in general.

5:04:25I appreciate the pragmatic approach and the context sensitive approach is given downtown renewal taking place these next five years.

5:04:33But I do think maybe there can be a different approach in which we further disseminate, you know, what is the difference between live work compared to residential use so that we can further have a conversation about perhaps reducing parking minimums for those land uses.

5:04:53I do think there's a lot of opportunity for us to have further discussion perhaps at the end of the month for where we as a council want to press our focus in terms of strategizing ways in which we can maximize this new cash and leave program that we want to implement.

5:05:13I think if it's any kind of government investment that we make investments into downtown is always the best return on investment.

5:05:24Anybody regardless of whether you drive or not and for me, I used to take transit quite a bit now I mostly drive if I'm to be honest.

5:05:34I would still prefer to take transit if I were to go downtown. I go for wings all the time at Royal Electric, and I want to make it for me more easy to get there and take the bus, or if I were to take my car, use the parking instead of the on street parking so I don't think what any of us have discussed today is quite novel but I do think we can.

5:06:00We have an opportunity right now to reset expectations for how we think about parking so I do want to support some of the sentiments that the mayor has alluded to and I also want to thank staff as well just for being very thorough with some of the context and relationships we're dealing with, especially with the businesses downtown so thank you so much.

5:06:21And I will be supporting this for the record.

5:06:25Thank you, Councillor Chew.

5:06:27Thank you to staff for this and it's hot on the heels of the comprehensive zoning bylaw that we saw in April.

5:06:34So, in my mind there's been a lot of research and there's a lot of data and I like the data driven approach.

5:06:40I think we are in a transition but the transition for some people will mean an electric vehicle or a cargo bike and a cargo bike also needs room to be stored.

5:06:49And I think what happens when we are perhaps premature in reducing some of those spaces is the expectation that people will then park on city streets or in city parkades just as we have developers saying I don't have to provide

5:07:05outdoor amenity space because there's a park up the street.

5:07:09I don't need to provide parking because the city is doing transit and bike lanes but that is an externality and so while I absolutely support reduction of parking minimums for really affordable like county affordable housing,

5:07:24I'm going to be really cautious around how we define that affordability.

5:07:28In our own comprehensive zoning bylaw there is a clause that said if you are too aggressive then you will have spill or effect.

5:07:37The former ED of the DGBA used to say if you don't provide the parking they're not going to take a different mode they're going to go somewhere else.

5:07:45So I think staff have shown interesting problem solving around pilots.

5:07:51I like the payment in lieu.

5:07:53I think it's respectful to downtown businesses to wait until after the reconstruction to bring in on street parking but then I do think appropriate.

5:08:01And I think that staff are trying to balance the people who are in for a day for employment or education, the residents who are there, the tourists and the people coming to buy downtown and to solicit the shops.

5:08:13So it's not an easy conversation.

5:08:16It is in the pressure of the housing crisis absolutely and I think the transition on race to zero can look a lot of different ways.

5:08:24So thanks for the work.

5:08:25We've had a really good respectful conversation as well which is what committee is all about.

5:08:30So I appreciate that.

5:08:32So I will call a vote on the motions that have been tabled.

5:08:36Is anyone opposed?

5:08:39Okay. I see Mayor Guthrie is opposed.

5:08:43Okay. So that passes with one opposed.

5:08:48Did staff have any announcements?

5:08:54I don't see any announcements from staff.

5:08:56I'll just because I have the chair to say it's been a really hard summer for municipalities experiencing flooding and fires.

5:09:04We've seen mayors and council and their staff really pulled together in really difficult situations.

5:09:10And I just want to say Gwelfstands and solidarity with those folks.

5:09:13It's not easy being in a municipal sector in a context like that.

5:09:16I think that's a good point.

5:09:18Okay. I need motion to adjourn.

5:09:21Councillor Boussatill.

5:09:23Oh, that's right. We do have to go back and closed.

5:09:25What does that look like?

5:09:27We just go back and close.

5:09:28Okay.

5:09:30All right. So the chair goes back to Mayor Guthrie, I think.

5:09:33And we are going back into close before we come back for adjournment.

5:09:37Madam chair, if I may, you can swap seats with Mayor Guthrie if you'd like, but a motion to move back into close is.

5:09:44So I need a motion to go back and closed.

5:09:46Councillor Goller seconded by Councillor Allt.

5:09:49Anybody opposed?

6:32:26All right, everyone.

6:32:27I'm going to call the meeting in the public session here back to order, please.

6:32:32And so let me just get everything ready here.

6:32:37Earlier today, we went in camera under one item and just as a reminder that

6:32:44title on the agenda was downtown riverfront park acquisition plan.

6:32:53And so as my summary coming out of that meeting, council did give direction to staff in regards to that matter.

6:33:04And that's all I can say at this time.

6:33:07But thank you for sticking out to hear the summary there with that.

6:33:12That's everything.

6:33:14And I will now go to, well, actually that would be it.

6:33:29No bylaws for this section, right?

6:33:32Because it's done.

6:33:33Okay.

6:33:35That's it.

6:33:36Motion to adjourn.

6:33:38Michelle is, I mean, Councillor Richardson is looking at me.

6:33:40So she's happy to move that.

6:33:42And Councillor Goller is happening.

6:33:45Happy to second that.

6:33:47Is anyone against adjournment?

6:33:49That is unanimous.

6:33:51Everyone have a wonderful night.

6:33:53Thank you for joining us.

6:33:54Bye bye.