City Council

3:00All right, good evening everybody. I'm gonna call the meeting to order here. It is

3:05Tuesday June 25th

3:072024 is 5 30. This is our council meeting and as I said, I'm calling it to order

3:12Right off the top. We are looking to move into a closed session

3:20Before I do that is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature there of?

3:26Before we go into closed

3:28Seeing and hearing none. I have regrets today from

3:32councillor Richardson

3:35As is disclosed on the open agenda. We have

3:40The bargaining mandate report

3:44Amalgamated transit union local 1189

3:47That's under section 239 2d of the municipal act labor relations or employee negotiations

3:53We have an appointment to the board of trustees of the Elliott which is under section 239 2b of the municipal act

4:00personal matters about an identifiable individual including municipal or local board employees and

4:06We have Southgate business park lands a revised term sheet section 239 2cf and I of the municipal act

4:13I proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by the municipality or local board

4:19Advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communications necessary for the purpose and trades

4:25For that purpose and a trade secret or scientific technical commercial financial or labor relations information

4:32Which is supplied in confidence to the municipality or the local board

4:37With those in front of us would someone be willing to move to move it go into close for me

4:43Councillor quassan Councillor Caton

4:45Will do that. Is there anything further on those items hearing and seeing none? I will call the vote anyone against

4:53Hearing and seeing none. That's unanimous. We will move into closed session and I will give a high-level summary when we

4:59Return to the open session. Thank you very much

5:02Okay, I'll call the meeting back to order in the open session here and as I mentioned earlier

52:17We did go into a closed session. Sorry. We're starting a little bit late out here in open apologies

52:23We went back for three items. So I'll just go through each of them

52:27the first one is

52:29the bargaining mandate from the for amalgamated transit union local

52:351189 and

52:38council did give direction to staff on that matter

52:43And the second one was Southgate business park lands a revised term sheet and

52:48Council received information about that no direction was given at all

52:54and then on

52:56The appointment to the board of trustees to the Elliott

52:59We're going to do a motion bringing it out from closed session into the open session right now

53:03And I'll go to council or alt to read that out for us. Thank you very much mayor Guthrie

53:09Moved by alt seconded by boosted eel that leaves better edge be appointed to the board of trustees of the Elliott for a term ending June

53:172027 or until such time as a successor is appointed

53:21Great. Thank you. Is there anything further on that?

53:24Appointment don't hear or see anybody. So I'll call the vote is anyone against

53:29Nobody so thank you to lease into the Elliott and that passes unanimously

53:34With that the closed meeting summary out of the way

53:37I'd like to ask everyone to please rise if you are able as we recognize our national anthem

53:42Great. Thank you. And as we continue just a moment of silent reflection

55:16Great. Thank you and for our territorial acknowledgement as we gather

55:33Let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live here and work here in Guelph a city that's built over rich indigenous histories

55:40We're guests here and should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land

55:44The people who live here today and the generations to come for actions today can move us towards reconciliation

55:50We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

55:54This place we call Guelph is traditional lands in a place of refuge for many peoples over time

55:59But more specifically the Anahuanarok and the Hone Shone

56:03This land is held as the treaty lands and territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation

56:08And Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and as part of the long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

56:15Many first nations in you and Métis people who have come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today

56:22And thank you and with that is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature thereof for the items in front of us for open session tonight?

56:31Hearing seeing none and just again we do have official regrets from counselor Richardson

56:39With that we do have a some committee of the whole

56:44flowing reports

56:45from committee that are on consent and

56:48So I'll just kind of go through them all and just see if anyone wants them pulled the

56:532024 corporate asset management plan and levels of service study

56:59Okay, and the joint social services land ambulance committee consent report

57:06Okay, those are the two may I may I ask a

57:11member of council to move consent billings and

57:15Class in hearing nothing more any questions nothing. No, okay. I'll call the vote is anyone against consent

57:25No, don't see or hear anybody so that's unanimous. Thank you so much. Oh, I missed the minutes. Yes, I did. Sorry about that everybody

57:35Let's do the minutes

57:37Open council meetings held May 14th and 28

57:422024 and the committee of the whole meetings held on April 3rd May 7th and 15th

57:472024 to be confirmed as recorded and without being read counselor downer. I saw your hand go up for that. Thank you

57:54Boosetil will second the minutes anything on the minutes

57:59Not hearing or seeing anybody on that so I'll call the votes anyone against

58:05And that's nobody so thank you very much that's unanimous as well

58:08So we are moving into the items for discussion and right off the top

58:13we're going to have some presentations here from our

58:17external

58:19consultants for oh not consultants earlier are our

58:23Oversight team from KPMG

58:26in 20 for the 2023 audited consolidated financial statements and

58:33So I will turn it over to our finance team and

58:38From KPMG to do that for us

58:41Thank you over to you. Thank you

58:50Because you are certainly not Matt. Are you I am not yes, we're yes, please introduce yourself

58:56Okay, I am T. Shekali Berof senior financial analyst in corporate reporting and I'm here to present the

59:042023 financial statements. Okay. Thank you so much

59:07Good evening mayor Guthrie members of council and members of the public joining us today

59:13I am pleased to be able to present highlights from the 2023

59:18consolidated financial statements to you today

59:20Last month council received the 2023 year-end financial results for operating capital and city reserves

59:27The consolidated financial statements combines all of those reports

59:31Plus the all plus our consolidated entities into four financial statements to give a full and detailed picture of the city finances

59:39Today will not repeat the information you heard last month instead. I will be highlighting key items from the 2023 financial statements in

59:46The presentation today. I will discuss the two new financial reporting standards implemented in 23

59:52highlight key items from the statement of financial position and

59:55Discuss some of the key financial indicators the city measures using the financial statements

1:00:01Before I begin I'd like to thank all members of staff and our consolidated entities for their assistance with the city's audit and

1:00:07consolidated statements

1:00:09Preparing the statements requires extensive communication and collaboration from all departments across the city and with our consolidated entities

1:00:16And I truly appreciate all their efforts

1:00:19The municipal act requires the city engage independent auditors to an express an

1:00:24To express an opinion as to whether the financial statements fairly present the city's financial results for the year

1:00:31KPMG is the audit firm for the city and shortly you will hear from Matt Betic

1:00:35Partner at KPMG who will present that findings from their audit

1:00:39The consolidated financial statements are prepared by city staff in accordance with public sector accounting standards

1:00:50Which we refer to as PSAS which are set by the public standard accounting board of CPA Canada

1:00:56As a refresher our consolidated entities include the Guelph police service the Guelph public library the Elliott community

1:01:04Wellington Dufferin Guelph public health the downtown Guelph business Association

1:01:08The Guelph Junction Railway and Guelph Municipal Holdings Inc

1:01:12The methods used for consolidation can be found in note one of the financial statements

1:01:18Public sector accounting standards use full accrual accounting which difference which differs from certain aspects of the city's budget presentation

1:01:25Like consolidated entities and the accounting treatment for capital assets reserve transfers and debt

1:01:30For more information on the differences between financial reporting and budget reporting

1:01:35Please refer to the latest PSAS report approved by council in February 2024 in

1:01:452023 there were two new financial reporting standards implemented by the city the first is PS 3280

1:01:51asset retirement obligation also known as the arrow

1:01:55The city has adopted the standard effective January 1st 2023 using the modified retrospective method

1:02:01This means that the city's 2022 financial statements have been restated to show the arrow in effect as of January 1st

1:02:082022

1:02:10The arrow includes standards

1:02:12Sorry, the arrow standard requires that a liability is recognized when there is a legal obligation to incur retirement costs

1:02:19related to tangible capital assets and a reasonable estimate of the cost can be made

1:02:25Included in the arrow liability are the retirement costs for landfill post closure obligations

1:02:30fuel tanks wells and asbestos removal within city-owned buildings

1:02:34The city engaged consulting support to help with the implementation of the new standard a thorough review of the city's assets was completed to

1:02:42Identify which assets were within scope of the standard and to help with the final valuation of the liability recorded within the statements

1:02:49At the end of 2023 the city has an arrow liability of 10.2 million which consists of 6.1 million for landfill post closure costs

1:02:59153,000 for fuel tanks and wells and 3.9 million for building asbestos removal

1:03:05The previously listed landfill post closure liability is now included within the arrow and is no longer a separate line item on the financial statements

1:03:15Staff will consider whether there are adjustments required to the existing financial strategies

1:03:20Based on new information identified through the arrow work and will report back as part of the 2025 budget confirmation if necessary

1:03:28Our consolidated entities also assess the impacts of the arrow standard on their financial statements and completed adjustments as applicable

1:03:36The second new standard implemented by the city in 23 is ps

1:03:433450 financial instruments and related standards

1:03:46The city adopted the standard January 1st 2023 using the prospective method

1:03:51Which means there were no restatements made in 2022 related to the standard the financial instruments and related standards provides new financial

1:03:58Reporter requirements for various types of financial transactions

1:04:03This standard was analyzed internally by city staff and reviewed by our auditors

1:04:07And it was determined that no financial reporting changes were required in 23

1:04:11Due to the nature of the financial instruments the city holds at December 31st 2023

1:04:16however new risk disclosures were included in the 2023 financial statements and there are in no 21

1:04:23our consolidated entities also assess the impacts of the financial instrument standard and

1:04:28Completed the adjustments applicable as adjustments as applicable

1:04:31I would now like to highlight a few items on the statement of financial position

1:04:43The city continues to have a healthy financial position with strong reserve balances low levels of debt

1:04:49stable investments in gjr and gmhi and growing tangible capital assets

1:04:54It's important to highlight that over the coming years the city expects to see debt levels rise

1:04:59Tangible capital assets increase and reserve balances decrease as significant capital projects are completed

1:05:06Over time these changes may result in a net deficit position as financial liabilities outpace the accumulation of financial assets

1:05:13The conversion of financial assets into tangible capital assets is being driven by the collective work to unlock and execute the capital program

1:05:21At a faster pace than previous years from a high-level perspective the future expected changes on the city's balance sheet

1:05:29Will correspond to the implementation of service delivery master plans and asset management plan

1:05:34The last area I'd like to highlight on the statement of financial position is deferred contributions as there was a significant increase in 2023

1:05:43These funds are received each fiscal year and utter deferred until the expenses incurred

1:05:48The largest items making up deferred contributions are development charges

1:05:52Canada community building grant funds provincial gas tech grants funds

1:05:57Parkland dedication and community benefits charge funds in 2023

1:06:01There was a significant increase in deferred contributions, which was largely driven by development charge inflows

1:06:07various factors drive this increase including

1:06:11Development charge collections interest earned on development charge reserve funds and transfers for legislative exemptions and discounts as part of the

1:06:192024 to 2033 capital plan this revenue has been allocated to projects and staff expect these balances will decrease

1:06:26Over the coming years as the funds are put into use

1:06:28I would now like to end this presentation by discussing some of the key financial indicators the city measures using the long-term financial

1:06:41Framework pillars of sustainability

1:06:45vulnerability and flexibility

1:06:47Sustainability is the city's ability to maintain required services in the president future

1:06:52vulnerability is the city's ability to be resilient to challenges while maintaining city operations and

1:06:58Flexibility is the ability of the organization to adapt to changes and capitalize on opportunities within the operating environment

1:07:07Under the sustainability pillar we look at the cash and invest cash and investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio

1:07:14Consolidated net financial assets and the asset consumption ratio

1:07:18The cash to reserve ratio tells us how well the city is managing cash flow and its ability to meet the city's financial obligations a

1:07:26Higher ratio indicates excess cash flow and the ability to meet current obligations

1:07:31The minimum target for this ratio is one to one which means that for every dollar in cash and investments

1:07:36The city has one dollar in reserve and reserve funds in

1:07:402023 the cash and investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio decrease to 1.17 to one from 1.20 to one as shown by the red arrow

1:07:49But the city still remains above the established target as shown by the green circle

1:07:54Total consolidated net financial assets increased by 1.5 million in 2023 as shown by the green arrow

1:08:01While the city does not have a set target for this metric a lower increase in net assets tells us the city is reversing the historical trend of

1:08:09Accumulating financial assets at a much faster pace than financial liabilities and is converting financial assets into tangible tangible capital assets

1:08:17This demonstrates that the city is making significant progress on its capital plan an asset backlog

1:08:23The asset consumption ratio tells us how our assets have aged within the fiscal year an

1:08:29Increasing ratio tells us that our assets are aging faster than we are replacing them

1:08:33The asset consumption ratio remain the same in 2023

1:08:36While the city has no official target for this ratio

1:08:39No change tells us that the city replaced assets at a faster pace than previous years and reverses a trend of increasing an

1:08:47Increasing asset consumption ratio in previous fiscal years

1:08:50This is again confirmation that strategies put forth are working within the city under the vulnerability pillar

1:09:01The first metric is federal and provincial contributions as a percentage of total revenue in

1:09:062023 contributions from federal and provincial governments was 17.4 percent of revenue

1:09:11This is a decrease from 2022 where the percentage was 17.7 as shown by the green arrow

1:09:17Higher levels of federal and provincial funding were received during the pandemic and throughout the pandemic recovery

1:09:23Which temporarily increased the percentage of revenue from federal and provincial sources

1:09:27The more reliance independence and municipality has on federal and provincial contributions

1:09:32The less flexibility the municipality has and there is a greater financial risk to the organization

1:09:38Should contributions be reduced or eliminated?

1:09:41This is an important metric to continue in monitoring as more grant opportunities are rolled out by upper levels of government and in some cases

1:09:48Partially replacing reductions to city's own source revenues like development charges

1:09:55Tax arrears as a percentage of taxis levied is an important financial indicator of

1:09:59Municipal economic health and indicates the ability of taxpayers to meet their financial obligations

1:10:04tax arrears as a percentage of taxes levied increased to 2.8 percent in 2023

1:10:09Compared with 2.25 percent in 2022 as shown by the red arrow

1:10:13The driver of the increase in 23 was due to a large tax payment for 2023 that was received in 24 instead of 23

1:10:21Even though the percentage increased the city still remains well below the municipal average of 4.7 percent

1:10:27Which is the city's target as shown by green circle and Guelph continues to have extremely low levels of tax arrears

1:10:35The final metric under vulnerability is return on investment

1:10:39In 2023 the city's return on investment was 3.44 percent

1:10:43Which is an increase over the 2022 return on investment of 2.14 percent as shown by the green arrow

1:10:50The increase in 23 is primarily driven by market rates as interest rates remained elevated

1:10:56Market rates are expected to decline in 2024 and future years as the Bank of Canada reduces interest rate

1:11:01The city uses a tiered approach to investing which means elevated levels of returns may continue in the short term

1:11:08But will decline in future years as rates decline and reserve balances are drawn down by capital spending

1:11:14The third pillar of the long-term financial framework is flexibility

1:11:18The metrics associated with this pillar were discussed extensively in the year-end reserve and debt report

1:11:23Which is why those were metrics were not included in today's presentation

1:11:29Thank you for the opportunity to present highlights from the 2023 consolidated financial statements to you today

1:11:35Today I ask you to approve the financial statements and attachment one of report

1:11:392024 dash 272

1:11:42I will now turn the presentation over to Matt Betic partner at KPMG to discuss the findings of the 2023 audit

1:11:48At the conclusion of his presentation both Matt and staff will be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you

1:11:55Well, thank you so much. We appreciate your presentation and Matt. We see you on the screen. Can we just test your audio?

1:12:03How's this sound? Yep, you sound great

1:12:07Perfect

1:12:11You know you're coming through clear so thanks for thanks for

1:12:15Joining us and we'll turn it over to you to walk through this. Okay, that's great. Thank you

1:12:20And good evening to counsel and thank you for for receiving us here today

1:12:25I'll take a few minutes to walk through our presentation

1:12:28Recognizing that counsel has had an opportunity to view the materials in advance

1:12:33I will be available to answer questions throughout if that be the pleasure of counsel

1:12:39But as Tisha said, I will be available for questions at the conclusion

1:12:45Before I get into it, I would like to thank Tisha and Shanna Tara and the rest of the finance team

1:12:51For their cooperation and assistance in allowing us to complete our work

1:12:55certainly we wouldn't be able to be here today to

1:12:59Present this report if we didn't have the excellent cooperation that we did and so if I could get

1:13:05clerks to

1:13:06Advance down three slides, please

1:13:10Sorry one more

1:13:12Well, I won't focus on on any of the technology items

1:13:16Identified here. I will sort of press upon the fact that we do continue to build technology into our audits

1:13:23And using various technological tools

1:13:26to both, you know improve

1:13:29the audit quality and

1:13:32The response to the risks that there may be errors or mistakes

1:13:36in the accounts with an increasing

1:13:40You know volume of electronic financial activity happening we are

1:13:46It's you know, we need to use more technology tools to respond to the fact that there could be risks there

1:13:53Next slide, please

1:13:55So we did prepare this report some weeks ago and at that time we did have a number of items that we were still working on to complete our audit

1:14:04I would say we're

1:14:06You're through most of these things and we're at the sort of the final stages of just cleaning up final matters now

1:14:13We expect to be in a position to issue our audit opinion within the next day or two following approval of the statements

1:14:20by council

1:14:22in the

1:14:24Financial statements our audit report is expected to be a clean audit opinion

1:14:29So no qualifications or modifications and we do know that that draft report is included in the agenda materials

1:14:36Next slide

1:14:39This slide we do touch upon our response to the new accounting standard that was

1:14:45Very well described by staff and this is for asset retirement obligations. And so here we're looking to make sure that

1:14:53How management and staff applied that new accounting standard to the financial statements make sense

1:14:59We tested a sample of the items to make sure

1:15:02That they were both in existence and were complete and we made sure that the estimates that were used were reasonable and based on the best information

1:15:12held by the city

1:15:14next slide as

1:15:16We reported in our planning report back in the fall

1:15:20We are required to consider the risk that there could be a misstatement in the financial statements due to an intentional act

1:15:27By staff

1:15:28We call this the override of internal controls and regardless of how good any control structure may be there still is an opportunity

1:15:37potentially incentive or rationale to

1:15:39You know intentionally mistake the accounts

1:15:42We have a variety of responses including some of our technology tools to look at

1:15:49entries and transactions through the accounts looking for items that appear to be high risk

1:15:54Where those are identified we look at them in their totality to make sure there's no

1:15:59Untoward activity going on and we have no findings to report which is a good good story

1:16:05next slide

1:16:07Here we talk about the various post-employment and retirement benefits that the city has so this is consisting of the sick leave plan

1:16:15the WSIB plan as well as

1:16:19Health and dental benefits that are offered to certain retirees

1:16:23these plans require the accounting

1:16:26Assistance from an actuary to calculate the amounts that will be paid well into the future

1:16:32We do rely on the work that's performed by the third-party actuary and we've identified though that firm in our report

1:16:39But we do look at the underlying

1:16:41Assumptions and data to make sure that the information that's being used to calculate these amounts are reasonable in all circumstances

1:16:48And again, no findings to report

1:16:51Next slide

1:16:53For a tangible capital assets as Tisha mentioned is an area of increasing balance for the city and certainly the largest

1:17:01Single item on your financial statements. So we do look at the process by which the city

1:17:08Includes capital assets on its financial statements. We test a sample of those to underline contracts

1:17:14purchase orders

1:17:16Invoices to make sure they they do make sense and we also test how the amortization

1:17:21Expenses reported that is you know, how the assets come down in value over time and make sure that the presentation and disclosure of that information

1:17:29Is in accordance with the standard?

1:17:32next slide

1:17:33The obligatory reserve funds and deferred revenue again

1:17:37This is primarily the development charges as was described earlier and we do

1:17:42this requires a special response because the

1:17:45Revenue from development charges is recognized in the financial statements on a time frame that's different than the cash received

1:17:52So as we see the cash being received but unspent that accumulates in the deferred revenue account

1:17:57But then as it's spent on the growth related projects, it comes down and is recognized to revenue. So there is some judgment

1:18:04There's also a greater propensity to error in this area

1:18:08But based on the work we performed we didn't find any problems

1:18:12next

1:18:13The liabilities for contaminated sites has been on the statements for a few years now

1:18:19And these relate to sites where there is contamination that requires cleanup by the city for properties that are no longer in productive use

1:18:27This is a little bit different from AROs because those relate to assets that are in productive use

1:18:33Again, these requires a significant amount of judgment and estimate and we look at the underlying

1:18:38Data that builds up builds up those amounts

1:18:41Liability did decrease slightly this year from last year

1:18:44Recognizing that amounts were paid for some remediation as well as some changes to estimates were reported

1:18:51next slide

1:18:52Or taxation and user charges. These are big revenue items. We primarily develop

1:19:00External expectations as to how those should be recorded and compare them to results and make sure that things are checking out the way we expect

1:19:08Next slide

1:19:11payroll and operating expenses again

1:19:13We use a variety of detailed testing as well as predictive analysis for the payroll

1:19:19We look at full-time equivalents. We look at wage rates. We look at contract amounts

1:19:24Recompute what the what the amount should be

1:19:26And then compare them to the actuals to make sure they're within a reasonable tolerance and they were the next slide

1:19:34Here we're just disclosing that as part of our work

1:19:38We did not identify any items that required correction nor remain uncorrected in the statements and so this is a really good thing

1:19:46As I said before there's a clean-audit opinion, which is what you'd expect

1:19:50But what this slide really means is that the information that we received to do our work did not need to be adjusted or amended as a

1:19:57Result of our work to come to the statements that you received in your agenda materials

1:20:02Next slide

1:20:06This is the final slide that I'll report on

1:20:09We are required to identify and report any significant deficiencies in internal control

1:20:16And that we did not so again a good thing. So I I always encourage councils

1:20:21When they're done listening to me that they take away sort of three things from the presentation a clean-audit opinion

1:20:29No uncorrected amounts and no significant control deficiencies

1:20:34We think this is a report card of the finance team based on the information that we saw but certainly not a full-blown

1:20:42Assessment of what they do on a day-to-day basis

1:20:46There are some additional slides in the presentation. I don't think they're worthy of additional attention

1:20:50So I'll pass it back over to the chair for questions or comments. Well, thank you very much. Thank you Matt

1:20:59I think you a Tisha. Thank you very much for your presentation. Was that your first time presenting to us today?

1:21:07Yes, it was you did a good job. Thank you. I practiced a lot

1:21:13Well, I I was wondering I was like, it's the first time so

1:21:18Matt you've been here too long. I don't have to say you did a good job. You did a good job

1:21:22But I can't do you so thank you very much. Appreciate appreciate your work

1:21:26Let me just go to our chair of audit for a moment

1:21:30First so to you councillor all that's wrong. Thank you mayor Guthrie

1:21:34I do have a couple of questions and a comment. Do you want me to put the motion first?

1:21:38Thank you that the city of Guelph

1:21:402023 consolidated financial statements and external audit findings report dated the 25th of June 2024

1:21:47Be approved looking for a seconder

1:21:50seconded by Linda boost deal

1:21:53Apologies

1:21:54Thank you

1:21:55through through you mr. Mayor to

1:21:59Mr. Beddage just three questions I believe

1:22:03The tax arrears trend has been identified as low

1:22:06I was wondering if you could comment on that relative to elsewhere in on Ontario at this point

1:22:12How are we doing in in a relative sense?

1:22:16So from the clients that I work with we are seeing an increase to the tax arrears as a percentage of the tax levy

1:22:23so what you're seeing is not

1:22:26inconsistent a

1:22:28combination of

1:22:30You know worsening financial picture

1:22:34This is true as well as increased

1:22:38Interest rates are causing that drag

1:22:42There is a low risk zone identified by the province of less than 10% and

1:22:49You know the city is well

1:22:51Under that so the comments by staff saying that the city has has got low tax arrears relative to its

1:22:58peer group I said that it's a

1:23:00Quite true. I participated in another presentation yesterday that looked at some other southern Ontario

1:23:08Municipalities mostly lower tier but larger size

1:23:11And the average was about five point

1:23:15five or five point six percent amongst that

1:23:19comparator group so

1:23:21For the wealth to be at under five percent is a good thing

1:23:25Thank you

1:23:26More difficult question, I don't think you can answer this entirely accurately

1:23:31You made note of the liability for contaminated sites my assumption. That's on page 12 of your report

1:23:38That is a challenging

1:23:41A

1:23:42Challenging number to get to zero. We will never see a zero on the contaminated sites

1:23:47We will always have them is that correct and we will always have that liability

1:23:50Well in theory, no, it could be reduced, you know, there's there's a few properties that

1:23:57Comprise the vast majority of that liability and and should the remediation

1:24:03On those properties come to conclusion and there's no further requirement from a legal obligation to further remediate

1:24:10Then that balance would be reduced to zero

1:24:13Okay, thank you. Finally the last question Mayor Guthrie

1:24:16Misstatements just if you could just remind me and remind others. What is the reporting threshold for misstatements?

1:24:23So we would accumulate and report anything over

1:24:27$500,000 we said a materiality the beginning the audit of approximately 10 million and the threshold is 5% of that

1:24:34Thank you very much

1:24:36Mayor Guthrie the last thing that I just want to point out is something that actually

1:24:40Ms Baker had written and I think is

1:24:44Fairly important for us to recognize and

1:24:48That is

1:24:49That 2023 has really demonstrated the unfortunate trending that municipalities continue to be forced to take on downloaded

1:24:56Financial responsibilities from the province and even the private sector municipal development revenues from the

1:25:02Worst stifled through bill 23 shifting even more housing enabling capital costs away from the developer and over to general property taxpayers

1:25:11as homelessness and mental health concerns grew to a state's crisis in Guelph in 2023 provincial social service pandemic response funding ended leaving Guelph taxpayers to fill in that gap as well

1:25:20Most importantly, I think a lot of the

1:25:24Preventual social service pandemic response funding ended leaving Guelph taxpayers to fill in that gap as well

1:25:30Most importantly as Ms Baker states through all this I remain optimistic about our future that we are doing well and I think that this has been reiterated by Mr Betty as well

1:25:42Yeah, thank you so much

1:25:45Do you mind if I just do one quick follow-up it's because I say this every year to Matt as a question

1:25:53It's just based on councillor Allt you have the materiality at the 5% or the $500,000

1:26:00But if you find an error you will drill down and drill down and drill down and drill down to find out where that dollar is

1:26:09Just to make sure that it's stated correctly

1:26:11So I just want to ask this every year because there's always somebody that you know

1:26:15It says like you don't look at everything and why aren't you looking at things that are misstated under $500,000

1:26:21You do if it's brought if you find it you do that work right Matt

1:26:25Correct. Yeah, we bring anything that we find to staff and

1:26:30Every transaction every financial account is subject to testing

1:26:35Thank you. Okay. Sorry. I just I interrupted you were you about to say something?

1:26:38Okay, thank you very much. Thanks councillor work over to you

1:26:43Thank you, Margo three my question isn't for mr. Betteridge. It's for staff

1:26:47So just a question from the staff report

1:26:49It says the city continues to have excellent liquidity with a strong cash position and the ratio of cash and investments to reserves and reserve funds remains in excess of the target of

1:27:00One to one is that situational at the moment where the financial statements were made

1:27:06Going forward do we need to be thinking about is the cash and investment position too high right so I'm trying to think about how we

1:27:15Meet our obligations, but also how we tackle property taxes obviously so what what am I to understand from that statement

1:27:22Or when I worked in insurance, you know, you didn't want to have too much cash because you wanted that that money to be either generating revenue or being put to use

1:27:33And so I can't remember what the the acronym was but can you help me understand that line and what it means now and going forward

1:27:41Sure through the mayor to counselor over

1:27:44So as we look at the next couple of years we are currently executing some really major capital projects in the south end community center the library

1:27:53Major projects in water and elsewhere and so when we're looking at the numbers in the financial statements for reserve positions and then reflected through to the investments in cash balances

1:28:05Those are not factoring in the committed the commitments made through the capital budget so that view is in the May 15th report that you would have seen in the reserves and debt report

1:28:22And so we'll see over the next couple of years those cash and investment balances reduce and our capital asset balances go up as those projects continue to be executed

1:28:35Okay, so so the funds are earmarked their earmarked. Okay. Thanks very much. Thank you

1:28:42Thank you and it's been moved and seconded already so it looks like I might be able to call the vote here. Yep anyone against

1:28:53Nobody that's unanimous. Thank you to you both really appreciate it. Appreciate your time

1:28:58And walking us and the community through that

1:29:02We are on to our next item which is the single use items strategy phase two

1:29:09And we're going to have a quick just a quick verbal update. Are you going to start with us Jane?

1:29:17I'm sure so I can through you Mr. Mayor to council just to give a quick update. I did

1:29:23Send a memo out

1:29:26Just after we had our last meeting just in regards to

1:29:30The addition of the reusable containers what we had originally asked for in that memo is to actually change

1:29:40Revert back to the original

1:29:42Recommendations from council and then add a third amendment that talked to the

1:29:49To going out and doing some engagement

1:29:51So the concern from staff at the time was that we had not had a chance to go and do any

1:29:56Engagement with the restaurant community

1:29:59And we had already already been receiving some calls of concern

1:30:05After that memo

1:30:08Mr. Mayor you

1:30:10Myself staff council class and did have a meeting with some representatives from the the restaurant community

1:30:18Just looking at my notes. They had numerous concerns associated with

1:30:22Allergens

1:30:25Washing hands contamination front of house back of house

1:30:30No standard sizing they were concerned with operational times associated with

1:30:36Dealing with containers that are being brought from the outside which hit their bottom line and and of course they already have a labor shortage

1:30:43So that was a concern for them as well. So

1:30:46Anyway in the end I think where we landed as we were discussing that

1:30:51If we did do engagement it sounded like we were going to end up there anyway and

1:30:57What we would recommend now is reverting back to the original the original recommendations from staff

1:31:03Okay, thank you. How about we just at least get

1:31:11Motions put on the floor to kick things off

1:31:14Councillor Klassen you're willing to move the motions just to put them on the floor. Thank you and

1:31:20Or work. Thank you and

1:31:24I know that there might be a couple amendments going here. So just to kind of help us filter and stay focused as amendments come our way

1:31:31It looks like Councillor

1:31:34Gowler had just sent something around

1:31:38and

1:31:40Maybe I could ask Councillor Goller to maybe just ask our staff some questions maybe just

1:31:45Prior to putting it up but before before I go to you Councillor Goller the clerk just want to speak for a moment

1:31:51Go ahead through you mr. Marin. Thank you

1:31:53I just want to clarify what was just put on the floor if it was the staff recommendations that Miss home miss homes

1:31:57Reference or if it's the committee of the whole recommendations as included on the agenda

1:32:04Well, I

1:32:12Think we better go with the ones from committee

1:32:15It's probably the best way to do it

1:32:18Until a few minutes ago. We weren't going to do that but now that there's a potential amendment

1:32:22I think that's the best way of going about it. So

1:32:26Do you want to say something back to you mr. Marin? That's no problem. It's obviously council's decision

1:32:31It may be easier to build up from the original staff recommendations to make additions

1:32:37Then it will be to amend the committee of the whole ones procedure. Yeah, of course a good idea. Yeah councils discretion

1:32:42Yep, that's a good idea

1:32:45Why don't we do that everybody? So why don't we just go one at a time point of order mega three sure I seconded

1:32:51And I actually thought we were seconding the original staff recommendation from that memo

1:32:57So I'm happy to withdraw

1:33:00Yeah, I was just about to get there

1:33:03I was just go go through the process of having to do what I got to do which is

1:33:07Councillor

1:33:08Claussen, are you willing to withdraw?

1:33:10Just for now

1:33:13We're going back. Sorry. Just so I'm clear to the committee recommendation. So not

1:33:19What's today before us on the agenda just to be absolutely clear? So I

1:33:25Can go back and look at what those are now and I'll withdraw. Thanks. Yeah, perfect

1:33:31I'm just good. I'm basically gonna build the motions one at a time. Okay, so I'm not leaving anything out or anything like that

1:33:37It's just an easier way of going about it. So if you're willing to remove and Dominique

1:33:40I'm sorry councillor O'Rourke has already said willing to remove. I have to officially ask does any member of council against removal?

1:33:48Okay, that's nobody. Thank you very much everybody

1:33:50so now I'm good to ask for tabling of I think the first one which is

1:33:57If you could put up on the screen sir, I'm just pausing for dramatic effect

1:34:01Through you, mr. Mayor

1:34:02So we'll display the approval for clerk staff is a slide 12 that we're looking at these are the original two recommendations put forward by staff at

1:34:09Committee of the whole earlier this month

1:34:14Yes, and so I'm just going to go one at a time just to make it easy. Okay, so

1:34:20With some of the willing to move number one councillor Downer. Okay. Thank you

1:34:26seconded

1:34:28Councillor Claussen, okay

1:34:31so

1:34:32Remember this is this is just the one that flew from from committee. Okay, so I'll call the vote on that as anyone against

1:34:42Nobody okay, we now have two extra. I'm going to call them topics right now

1:34:47We have an amendment that I know councillor or work wants to bring forward on like sleeves and such

1:34:52I'm going to go to that

1:34:54Then the second item I know is like containers. I'll go to that after that and then we're done. Okay

1:35:00So let's let me just turn the floor over to councillor work

1:35:03She can maybe just give us a little bit of a preamble as to why she's tabling something and then we'll table that okay

1:35:09Go ahead. Thank you. Mayor Guthrie. I just want to confirm that the second clause of that initial staff report is also on the floor, right?

1:35:16That the single-use items bylaw 2024 as

1:35:20amended be approved that one is on the floor

1:35:23I

1:35:25Thought we tabled one. I wasn't sure we tabled two through you mr. Murder counselor work. That's correct

1:35:32So only one was tabled. Okay number two is not the table

1:35:35I know there is an amendment coming forward number two should be tabled prior to that correct

1:35:39Yes, I'm sorry

1:35:40I paused because I wanted to stop at number two to give councillor work the opportunity, but yes, you're everyone's right

1:35:45I am wrong. We need to table number two for you to continue with your conversation

1:35:49So would you at least table number two for us? Yeah, I counseler downer. Would you second that? Okay?

1:35:53That's been tabled, but now I am sending it over to council or work for a potential amendment great

1:35:58Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. So over the course of the last couple of weeks

1:36:01We received correspondence from the retail council of Canada and they expressed some concern around

1:36:08Requiring someone to ask for something like a sleeve that goes around a coffee cup

1:36:14Because that sleeve actually makes it easier to hold the cup because the contents are hot and

1:36:20So I I think that's fair

1:36:23I think they have processes and they have reasons why they're putting that sleeve around the coffee cup to protect someone and in fact

1:36:29We shouldn't we shouldn't require someone ordering a cup coffee to ask for that sleeve if they're not aware of that

1:36:36So the first part of my motion is to remove the word

1:36:41Sleeves from the accessory food wear item definition

1:36:46Yeah, and then the second piece of the motion

1:36:51Section 5.1 was not terribly clear

1:36:55with respect to

1:36:57Whether those orders needed to be made in-house or like inside the building or whether the

1:37:04beverage was made inside the building so

1:37:08Staff have proposed some language to make it clear that a business must accept a customer's reusable drink cup for beverage orders made

1:37:17insor for beverages consumed on or off a business premise unless

1:37:21Serve through a window to a customer at a drive-through or purchase for delivery

1:37:26And the reason for that is both the staff and a driver in a vehicle if a hot beverage is being passed through that vehicle and

1:37:34And you know may or may not have a lid on it, etc

1:37:37I think there's a safety component there for both the person serving and the person receiving and so

1:37:45So I am moving the amendment

1:37:48To remove sleeves from the accessory food wear item definition and that clause 5.1 be amended to state a

1:37:55Business must accept a customer's reusable drink cup for beverage orders made in store for beverages consumed on or off a business's premises

1:38:04Unless served through a window to a customer at a drive-through or purchased for delivery

1:38:08Okay, thank you. And Councillor Caron has agreed to second that

1:38:12So can I call the vote on this then pretty straightforward? No Councillor Downer first?

1:38:16Could I just ask for a response from staff on that?

1:38:22Like are we okay with those changes through the mayor

1:38:26Yes, it didn't specifically come up as we were having our engagement

1:38:30And looking at some of the correspondence that has come up. It seems to make sense to us so we're in support

1:38:36Okay, okay, I'll call the vote then on that is anyone against that amendment

1:38:48Nobody that's unanimous. Thank you. So now I'll call the vote on number two as amended. Okay is

1:38:54Anyone against that?

1:38:55No one that's great. Okay, so that passes unanimously too and so then the third and last sort of topic was what was flown from

1:39:04Committee what was around reusable containers?

1:39:08and so

1:39:10I'm good to turn over to Councillor Goller and to quasen in a second, but you know just to give a little bit of

1:39:17preamble

1:39:18There was actually I believe it was unanimous support at committee

1:39:22To look to actually implement this in the bylaw as our acting CAO mentioned a lot has kind of transpired between then and now

1:39:31with a lot of concerns which

1:39:33You know my own opinion my own opinion only was they were quite valid

1:39:37And they were from you know known restaurant owners

1:39:42in our city that

1:39:45Actually are probably some of the best environmental restaurant owners calling

1:39:49And they really explained quite well a lot of the concerns that they had

1:39:54Unfortunately in a way like because you know, I think we're all trying to do the right thing on it

1:39:58So as our deputy

1:40:01Sorry as our acting CAO mentioned

1:40:03You know, there's kind of an option

1:40:05I think this is where Councillor Goller and quasen might want to have a discussion on is

1:40:09You know, is there validity in actually doing engagement between now and next year?

1:40:15around this issue to see if maybe something could happen or

1:40:19Do you think we might end up in the same kind of place that we're at right now?

1:40:24So which is in other words go do an engagement, but you probably won't change anything

1:40:30And then so that's the debate that may be in discussion that we could have

1:40:33Councillor Goller, I'm gonna turn it over to you on this theme and and so why don't you go ahead?

1:40:39With dearest factor worship my fellow councillor had her hand up first. I

1:40:45Could allow her to to say her piece. I have questions stemming mainly from the staff report

1:40:50Which spoke favorably in the support of of the recommendation

1:40:58Okay, well, let me just ask either one of you are you actually wanting to table a motion to try to actually have

1:41:05Formal engagement on containers between now and next year because if you are I'd rather just get to the debate in the discussion

1:41:11By actually formally having it tabled so one of you table it

1:41:18Okay, let's have it up on the screen then

1:41:21That's not be directed to conduct additional

1:41:24Engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable containers as part of the single-use items by-law and

1:41:31Report back to council prior to the effective date of the single-use items phase two timeline of March 1st 2025

1:41:38Okay, so it's been tabled

1:41:41And so is there is there any questions on that from anyone can't also now go to you first

1:41:49Yes, thank you through you mr. Merritt to staff. I just had a question, you know looking through the memo with regard to

1:41:57There's there's some feedback that was collected from the town of Banff

1:42:04And it said that anecdotal feedback from Banff

1:42:06States are

1:42:08Includes the requirement to accept reusable cups and containers and it's been well received by businesses red and residents and they're continued

1:42:17To be encouraged to remember there to bring their reusable container

1:42:20I'm just curious if we've had the opportunity to connect with any of the staff

1:42:25At the town of Banff to talk to them about some of the challenges that they might have been having so far with with the program

1:42:32Other than the anecdotal feedback that seems to be positive

1:42:37So maybe I'll start through the Merida to council class and

1:42:42Again, we we have not had a chance to do any

1:42:45Fulsome engagement on that yet. I don't know if

1:42:50My colleagues here have had a chance to reach out to to Banff in between when we had committee of the whole and and now

1:42:58If and they have so I will let them I will let them comment on that because we had written the memo before we had a chance to do that

1:43:04So I'll turn it over to

1:43:08Through the mayor so we have contacted

1:43:11Staff from the town of Banff and that is their anecdotal feedback since we were here earlier this month

1:43:17So it has been well received

1:43:20However, I think there's still an opportunity for further engagement within our own community

1:43:24As they did extensive engagement with their community as well

1:43:30Okay, and so just to clarify that and there is an opportunity still to do some engagement here with the community

1:43:36I mean not to you know, we did meet with restaurants Canada

1:43:39and we definitely met with some some local restaurants and I

1:43:44Completely respect their opinions and I think there there's some really valid ones here

1:43:48But I'm I guess my question is you know, there's is there still an opportunity to do engagement and

1:43:56Is there potentially an opportunity? This is a second question to create a program

1:44:01That's not necessarily mandatory because in some cases it might not make sense for some businesses to

1:44:07participate in a program like this

1:44:10So maybe maybe I'll start so through the mayor to council class and again

1:44:14There's always an opportunity to do engagement and when we wrote the memo right after the committee of the whole meeting

1:44:21we had heard the the the concerns and

1:44:25That was that was our recommendation is to go out and do into to do engagement because we hadn't done it

1:44:33After that memo had been written

1:44:36We like I said, you were in that meeting council class and with us and we did hear some

1:44:41valid concerns from some of the the restaurant

1:44:44representatives and

1:44:47And so we were starting to think that even if we did do engagement is

1:44:52You know, are we gonna end up in the same place and what we were trying to do is also be you know

1:44:57Cognizant of staff capacity as well because this was not on anybody's work plan

1:45:01So if it's the will of council for us to go and do engagement we had committed to do that

1:45:07Prior to March 1st 2025. That was when the the by-law was to be in place. So you won't lose any time

1:45:15But we're happy to do that. The other the other part of it is to mr.

1:45:19Mayor I forgot to mention was that we also said that we could do an educational component as part of our website as well for those

1:45:27To provide some sort of guidance for those who do want to participate

1:45:31Rather than making a by-law where everybody has to participate

1:45:34So that gives the restaurant some choice on whether they want to continue with a program like that or not

1:45:42Okay, thank you. Yeah, I certainly appreciate that component of it because yeah the mandatory piece

1:45:48I know for some businesses and what we heard from

1:45:51Some of the restaurants is that there are certain components from an operational perspective that could be quite challenging

1:45:58But but the educational piece is something certainly that I think we can take advantage of I

1:46:04Still am I and you know, I'm happy to hear from my my fellow counselors on this as well

1:46:09I still think there's an opportunity here for engagement and for learning from the community

1:46:15I think WALF has always been a leader in sustainability and I think that

1:46:21We're not gonna lower our waste by not looking at programs like this and not promoting these types of behaviors

1:46:29If we had looked at programs like this 25 years ago

1:46:34You know, I think that you know with the use of styrofoam and other

1:46:39Non-recyclable materials, you know, we would have been having a totally different conversation

1:46:42so the conversation needs to continue and I think this is a piece that can help continue the conversation and of course I don't want to

1:46:49Add unnecessary burden to a lot of these businesses who I know are already struggling a lot in the current economic situation

1:46:57however, we do have a very real issue with single-use items and landfills and I think that looking at all

1:47:04opportunities to reduce

1:47:06What's in our landfills and what we're going to have to deal with?

1:47:09For years to come is is something worth exploring but definitely open to hearing from my fellow counselors as well

1:47:19Thank you before I continue I'd like to just ask the movers is your intention to is your motion and intention to engage

1:47:28to encourage or

1:47:30to engage to create a bylaw

1:47:34Like there's a big difference here. I think I'd like to just go back to what the original

1:47:41You know, what's in the agenda for today and I think that

1:47:45in the

1:47:47Memo it was to do engage do the engagement before we approve the budget or approve the bylaw rather, sorry

1:47:59Before we continue, please put the motion back up if we're going to have a discussion and we just need clarity

1:48:07That's all it's okay. Just trying to make sure we're all focused on the right thing

1:48:11Because your motion says to direct them to do additional engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable containers as part of

1:48:20a bylaw

1:48:22But what I'm hearing a lot of and seeing a lot of nodding of heads about is

1:48:27engagement to encourage

1:48:29engagement to see

1:48:31Just to see if there's the ability for some to maybe buy in on this and so

1:48:35I think I just want to make sure that the movers are moving and item moving emotion here

1:48:42That's really what they want to do

1:48:45Do you want an actual bylaw at the end of the day to put to come forward?

1:48:50Because we've heard from our staff that that might be very very difficult if you want an engagement process that includes

1:48:58Communication encouragement website that that is a different thing and I just that wouldn't be

1:49:06Aligned with what you've tabled

1:49:08So it's kind of an it's kind of it's either an either or or it's both

1:49:12Like I'm just trying to help us make sure you're getting what you want

1:49:17So I'll go to the movers one more time cancer quas and then goer. Yes if you go into the

1:49:22I think that perhaps what the appropriate motion would be is the staff recommended motion that is in

1:49:31the motion amendment memo and

1:49:34It says three that staff be directed to conduct additional engagement and research with respect to the inclusion of reusable containers as

1:49:42part of the single use items bylaw and

1:49:45Report back to council prior to the effective date of the single use items phase two timeline of March 1st 2025 and

1:49:56That was the motion that I was referring to I'm not sure how the other one. I think that one was just in the agenda. So

1:50:03Hope that clarifies. I think our clerks are trying to determine that

1:50:09We think that you just read out something that is exactly what you guys tabled

1:50:13Which is fine. I just I just want to make sure if I may

1:50:18Come you are trying just just one second councillor Goller

1:50:20Yeah, so how I think the best way to answer this question right now is how is staff interpreting this motion if it passes

1:50:30Yeah, we would in 3d to the mayor

1:50:38So interpretation of this is that we would engage for the purpose of implementing a bylaw change with respect to reuse containers depending on the feedback received

1:50:47Yeah, and I would agree an education

1:50:50Component for encouraging the use just be a public education campaign. It wouldn't be for the intent of a bylaw amendment

1:50:58Okay, so we have clarity

1:51:00Which is fine. That's what we need here. Okay, what's tabled is to try to actually implement a bylaw

1:51:08Compared to if you want to do something different it would be

1:51:12More education communication encouragement campaign, okay, so I'll go to go to councillor Goller

1:51:19Your worship. We also heard as well as representatives from from food services and from the the food industry

1:51:27Represents from businesses that have reusable container services in our community. There are a couple of different reusable food

1:51:36Container services. So I think this is not necessarily

1:51:39Looking at everyone bringing their own Tupperware, but actually if the takeaway container is

1:51:46Returnable and then through through a third-party service. I think that would be an excellent alternative

1:51:52So if I could ask from staff when when you look at the the motion, would it be exclusively?

1:52:00Takeaway containers that you know that I bring my own Tupperware because that's that's not what I read. I read that it would actually be

1:52:07Any type of reusable containers as takeout

1:52:12Through the mayor to councillor goller, we would consider this motion including all options for reusable containers

1:52:20Thank you. Thank you. And with that in mind your worship

1:52:23I would love to explore the possibility of having this become the bylaw is it possible to and it may very well be that it's not

1:52:31Possible for certain types of businesses, maybe fast food places

1:52:35But it may be a requirement that other businesses

1:52:39Are required to use subservice that provides reusable containers

1:52:45therefore

1:52:46significantly

1:52:47limiting the amount of containers that end up in landfill

1:52:52Okay, I got a few more hands up here in the room

1:52:54So I'd like to try to focus us on getting to a conclusion here

1:52:58So I'm going to go to councillor Allt and then council or work. Thank you mayor Guthrie

1:53:04As the discussion the worthwhile discussion on on

1:53:08Reusable containers goes on I'm getting a bit confused about exactly what it is that we're trying to do here

1:53:14And the question I believe I have to have for clerks is can you have a bylaw that is?

1:53:21Voluntary for certain businesses through through you mr. Mayor

1:53:31I'll do my best to answer that that question you could I suppose put a clause in a bylaw that said

1:53:37Voluntary but then there is no it's a it's a suggestion not a bylaw at that point

1:53:42Of course many of our bylaws have no specific enforcement provisions

1:53:46But that doesn't make them voluntary or non mandatory that lack of enforcement. So generally speaking I think that would be unusual at the very least

1:53:54And thank you very much. I appreciate that clarity actually I

1:53:58Completely support the intent of this but I cannot support the motion as it is presented

1:54:04It strikes me that we're being incredibly ambiguous about it is what about what it is we want to do and we're leaving

1:54:12People with the very peculiar notion that you are subject to a bylaw if you want to be but aren't necessarily subject to the bylaw

1:54:20Thank You councillor arourke

1:54:23Thank You margoth three through you to staff

1:54:26I'm just wondering how this fits with all of the blue box transition that starts

1:54:32January 2025 I believe

1:54:34so

1:54:36Yes, we want to reduce the number of containers that are are used initially right definitely

1:54:43But won't the people who are using or issuing those containers have to find some mechanism to

1:54:49Bring those back and recycle them. So

1:54:52a how does it work with the blue box transition and

1:54:56B

1:54:58Does it become a moot point if the

1:55:02Emitter has to has to take it back sometime right? So I'm just wondering how those things fit

1:55:09So through the marriage counselor arourke the blue box transition

1:55:13The regulation only applies to the residential sector

1:55:16So if a resident brought it home and put it in their blue box

1:55:20it would go through the recycling program if the and

1:55:3040% of the waste generated in Ontario is residential 60% is commercial

1:55:37Okay, I was trying to think is there a way to do this education

1:55:42Through that ICI it's through that blue box transition

1:55:47communication

1:55:48But it doesn't sound like it aligns

1:55:51So another question in that vein. So through you Marga three to staff

1:55:55This is a big change. It's coming to 12

1:55:58What kind of capacity would you have to go and and consult with restaurants on this sort of very specific?

1:56:05Item that's laudable and I'd love to see it in place

1:56:08But do you have capacity to do this in this current context?

1:56:12Throw through the mayor to councillor mark

1:56:14We do have students that were onboarding for the fall for the purpose of the education campaign related to this bylaw

1:56:21If it's to pass and at that time that would be when we be doing the engagement

1:56:26So it's the same stack going out. They're already at the business. They can ask these questions. Okay

1:56:31So three America three have a question for the movers

1:56:34Rather than put it into a bylaw where I think you would have to specify these types of business but not those types of business

1:56:42Why not just leave the education component and make it a competitive advantage for businesses that want to offer this

1:56:49So there's a grocery store near me. They have the friendlier containers

1:56:52I think that's fantastic or I go to bulk barn and I you know bring my spice containers and stuff like that

1:57:00so rather than

1:57:02impose a bylaw that creates a patchwork for businesses across the the province really and

1:57:09It's especially difficult for like franchisees who have very very specific

1:57:15Processes and rules and and they time all their stuff, right?

1:57:20Why not

1:57:21Incent and appeal to the better angels than

1:57:25regulate

1:57:31Yeah, to the mover you can respond. I think from my perspective

1:57:38I was you know just to you know look at what staff provided in the report

1:57:44They did refer to Banff who does have a bylaw that talks about reusable food wear

1:57:50and I did start looking into their bylaw and some of the language that they were using and

1:57:58There's a lot of language around having a policy about reusable containers

1:58:03And having a written policy so in that case

1:58:06I mean, I'm sure I didn't go and look at individual restaurants and and what their

1:58:11Individual policies are and what they can and can't accept

1:58:15but I I personally was curious about how they

1:58:20Implemented it since they were the only example provided

1:58:24From a bylaw perspective. So there there is some precedent with regard to it being a bylaw

1:58:29so that was you know my first line of thought and and and my second line of thought on this is that yeah, I do believe that there is an

1:58:38educational component to this and

1:58:40If it comes to you know, we look into the engagement and we're saying like no, it shouldn't be a bylaw

1:58:46It really should be yes. It's a competitive advantage

1:58:50And I know that there's already a number of people who do use reusable container programs

1:58:56We have a popular

1:58:58Provider here in Guelph a friendlier company and I know that they provide a great service to many of the businesses in Guelph and and people like to use it

1:59:05So I do know that that that's something that that can exist. I think that I just didn't want to

1:59:13Proclude the idea that a bylaw

1:59:17Might be possible. I didn't want to leave that off the table

1:59:21But I'm I'm also happy for the staff to recommend that it not be

1:59:26I don't know necessarily if this is the right moment for it to be mandatory

1:59:30But I definitely think that it is worth exploring and that there might be language that does reflect our intention here

1:59:43Yeah, so just a comment mega three if I may I'm uncomfortable with the language of the motion because it does assume

1:59:51That it would be put into a bylaw

1:59:55For for companies even that would really want to do this like it does create additional work for them to create new policies

2:00:02And all of those things that that a lot of small restaurants couldn't necessarily do

2:00:08So I would I'd like to hear from

2:00:12Staff on how we could appeal to people's better angels through their

2:00:17Their their conversations in the fall I fully support that but I can't support the the amendment that's tabled

2:00:28Okay, look I can I can I can call the vote on this

2:00:34but I know some heads are nodding

2:00:38But

2:00:41I'm trying to actually build consensus a little bit here in compromise

2:00:47I'm wondering if potentially an amendment might be worthwhile to remove the portion in the middle of your motion

2:00:54That talks about the actual crafting of a bylaw

2:00:58Remove that out and let our staff go and just do engagement and then come back with a report with what they find and

2:01:07that's it then

2:01:09Then we take a next step after that

2:01:12I think we I think we'll accomplish what we're looking for kind of kill two birds with one stone here

2:01:17Like you're good to get the engagement you want with the details while the engagement happens

2:01:21You're also getting the education. So that's kind of good. You're getting both of those things over this time frame

2:01:27But there we're not sending staff away to actually, you know draft an actual bylaw

2:01:32So let's get the results back and then have another full some discussion about it and focus just on engagement right now

2:01:37I'm wondering if there was a a counselor that would be willing to move an amendment counselor Boussatil and then and then counselor

2:01:43Oh, now I'm really sorry. I I can't move stuff and I you're gonna need to write

2:01:49You're gonna need to write

2:01:51Write something to the clerks to do that

2:01:53but there's just a just like a basically a line in the middle there that could be removed by clerks and

2:01:59and then I think that amendment might help us get to a

2:02:04Unanimous potential vote here where we just are sending away for engagement only if that if that helps

2:02:10I'm just trying to help us land on something. I'm seeing some

2:02:13Some nods. Can we just get the motion put up on the screen?

2:02:19So basically it would be the remove

2:02:22removal of as

2:02:25part of the single-use items bylaw and

2:02:30And then just say and to report back to council period

2:02:34So once once it's done just report so it doesn't have to be yes our staff for those online

2:02:38Our staff are all nodding their head in the room to see you're aware

2:02:42So it's moved by counselor

2:02:46Boussatil seconded by counselor alt to remove those pieces there and and then we're I think we're landing on a place

2:02:53That's a bit more conducive to what we're trying to trying to accomplish

2:02:57If I could

2:02:59Counselor Gibson, did you want to speak to that amendment?

2:03:03Yeah, just a quick question to staff. That's okay

2:03:06Yes, go ahead. Yeah. Thank you through you. Mr. Mayor question to staff

2:03:10I just want to hear staff say that this is not a redundant

2:03:15Motion that this has not already taken place

2:03:19And that the engagement that's being asked to be done wasn't already part of the previous engagements on this on this item

2:03:25I don't want I don't want this to become out. We didn't get the answer we want so go back and go back and engage some more. Thank you

2:03:32So through the mayor to counselor Gibson, we did not explore single

2:03:38Re-sorry reusable containers

2:03:41With businesses it was mostly focused on beverage containers

2:03:45Thank you

2:03:48Okay, great. I'm very sorry staff out to clerks it. Are we good with that amendment? I know that

2:03:54Through you, mr. Mayor, I'm not sure we've got it in writing, but we will display what we think is

2:03:59Councillor Bush is sending it, but I think if you've captured it we could just ask counselor Bush until she's okay with the

2:04:06The removal there so that stop be directed to can

2:04:08Dr. Additional engagement and research with respect to the use of reusable containers and report back to council. Okay

2:04:15Yeah

2:04:17Does staff need a date in that would you prefer a date at the end?

2:04:26Through the mayor to you mr. Mayor. We our original plan was to do that for March the 1st anyway

2:04:32So you could put a date if you'd like

2:04:35Because if it is going to become part of a bylaw then we'd want to all do it at the same time

2:04:39Okay, but you're not going to do that part the bylaw part, but yeah

2:04:46So again speaking to the amendment go ahead

2:04:49So I think because we've taken out that they're not actually preparing the bylaw this time that it should probably come back

2:04:56In good time so that if we approve it that then they can prepare the bylaw before

2:05:03March right so then it's all done at once right so do we want to see the report back at I

2:05:10Don't know if if you're having students do it this fall then as soon after as possible

2:05:15I guess I don't is there a date that you think you can get the report back to council by so that we can then

2:05:21and I'm thinking of all the report writing issue because

2:05:26You know it may be that how difficult will it be to prepare that amendment to the bylaw once it's once the reports

2:05:33Then I guess is my question

2:05:37Sure, I guess I was throwing James some vague options

2:05:40So typically once we finish the engagement, I think we'd be in a place to know whether or not we had to draft a bylaw

2:05:47You know due to all the work back schedules

2:05:50We would be drafting the report at the same time as drafting a bylaw so

2:05:55In all reality, you know if I have something to do for February I pretty much have to start at beginning of January, right?

2:06:00So but that point in point in time we would already be able to draft the bylaw so so you would probably if you were recommending it

2:06:07You would have a draft in place anyway

2:06:11So yeah, so coming back to be coming back with a bylaw anyway, so this doesn't really change much actually

2:06:18Okay, get it though. Okay, but we're making a decision. We're gonna get a report before we approve it and the bylaw will come as

2:06:26Something we can add on. Okay. Great. Thanks

2:06:30Okay, I'm gonna call I'm gonna call the vote then on this amendment from Councillor Boussatill so

2:06:38Councillor all seconded it. Yeah, so is anyone against that amendment?

2:06:43No, that's great. That's unanimous. That's perfect. And then so now we'll just do it

2:06:48Do it as amended the main motion as amended. I'll call the vote on that. Is anyone against that?

2:06:55No, okay, perfect. That's unanimous and we landed at the right place there. So thank you very much for the discussion and

2:07:01We are I believe we are done that

2:07:06Yes

2:07:08Okay, I don't want to reuse or single use or anything about that ever again. All right, perfect

2:07:14we are at

2:07:16the drill hall and

2:07:18You know what? I know that there's some people that are been waiting

2:07:21But it just is it's worthwhile for us to move around for five minutes. Let's just take a five minute break and

2:07:29And move around a bit go to the bathroom get a drink come on back. So we'll be back here at just before

2:07:37You know between seven forty and seven forty five please five minute break. Thank you

2:07:42Okay, just a bit of one minute warning one to two minute warning. Okay?

2:17:33Okay, everyone. I'll call the meeting back to order

2:17:36Thanks for the little break there

2:17:41Drill hall responses to expression of interest and plan future use

2:17:48We have three delegations. I believe they are all in person

2:17:54Welcome to Stephanie Brinton

2:17:59Michelle peak and Norma Mendoza and so thank you

2:18:06So Stephanie come on down and then Michelle you're in the wings and

2:18:11Just so everyone knows you have up to five minutes and then you have four minutes and thirty seconds

2:18:17You'll hear a chime at your warning

2:18:20Don't go over the don't go over the five minutes or then I have to interrupt you and I hate doing that

2:18:25So just make sure you stick within that and then once you're done if you could stick around just in case there's a follow-up question

2:18:31From colleagues or myself. Okay, so welcome. I'll turn it over to you. You go right ahead

2:18:37Good evening council any bozu Stephanie Brinton indigenous cost such a Jack and Odem while was thinking don't you bow

2:18:43My name is Stephanie Brinton cring clan from Whitefish River First Nations Birch Island, Ontario

2:18:47I first met many of you when I came when you came into office in 2022

2:18:51I hope you can recall the truth and reconciliation

2:18:55Council orientation sessions we did together on Saturday morning where I outlined indigenous community need and calls to action on us

2:19:01as a municipality trying to set you up for success and responsibility to our community as our elected officials at

2:19:07This point it should be no surprise to you that urban indigenous community members have been asking and pleading for decades for indigenous space

2:19:13Gathering space healing space access to land and resources

2:19:17We are often told there's no money and no buildings

2:19:20But today we speak of the drill hall and the expression of interest process that was posted

2:19:24There is indeed a building, but no indigenous consultation or consideration

2:19:29So let me address some of the things I have heard from council

2:19:32Well staff the request for expression of interest process was engaged affording all public the chance to submit interest

2:19:37If you have not heard this yet, then please let me be the first to tell you that this process is not accessible

2:19:42Not equitable and is the very definition of systemic oppression to ask indigenous community or any racialized community to provide a proposal

2:19:50That would be acceptable to the colonial structure that was built to kill us is unacceptable

2:19:55Had the city designed an equitable process to ensure any community member could engage and not experience barriers

2:20:00There would have been more applicants on top of that at the June 4th community the whole meeting a former city counselor was further

2:20:06Advantage by a motion to receive ten thousand dollars to be used to a formal feasibility study

2:20:12No, we're nowhere in the expression of interest process said there would be a ten thousand dollar grant applied to a successful proposal for the formability

2:20:19Feasibility study for the potential use of the drill hall

2:20:22But stuff why does the community have to be in competition with one another can everyone get along and work together if this council cannot acknowledge

2:20:29The systemic and structural existence of discrimination or the harm done to those in equity deserving identity groups

2:20:34Then we have a much bigger issue

2:20:36It is not possible for indigenous folks to be in competition with anyone else as each and every one of you is on stolen land

2:20:43I have heard many municipal staff across municipalities advocate that the municipal as states

2:20:48We must be a political parties and my response to that has always been here only a political and neutral to the system

2:20:56To those the system is currently benefiting

2:20:59I've been pleading with this council as internal staff

2:21:02But now is indigenous community to engage in your truth and reconciliation learning journeys

2:21:06Now is not the time to paralyze and fear as you have the responsibility under call to action number 57 to educate yourselves as public servants on

2:21:13the history of indigenous peoples

2:21:15Including the history and legacy of residential schools the United Nations declaration of the rights of indigenous peoples treaties and indigenous rights on

2:21:22May 1st bill C

2:21:2329 received royal assent and officially became Canadian law the truth and reconciliation

2:21:28Commission calls to action or no longer an option to be ignored

2:21:32Beyond your individual learning journeys called action number 92 calls upon corporate sector in Canada to adopt the United Nations

2:21:38Accolation of the rights of indigenous people as a reconciliation framework and to apply its principles norm and standards to corporate policy and

2:21:45Core operational activities involving indigenous peoples and their lands and resources. I will close on this

2:21:51I have a beautiful wife her name is Chanel der Roche and she is an incredible artist and owner of necessary arts collective downtown Guelph

2:21:57She took over the space at the beginning of the pandemic when the previous owner is going to close the studio when the world was at most unknown

2:22:03And nothing was guaranteed my wife tirelessly applied to every grant and bursary we can find not successful in securing any funding

2:22:11She has single-handedly supported that art space for the betterment of the arts community as we all recognize

2:22:16There's not enough art space in Guelph the proponent the city is considering has misrepresented not only my wife supported the drill

2:22:22Hull proposal, but also many arts organizations across the city

2:22:26Last week I had the privilege of attending my wife's convocation as she earned the rights and privileges of a master of fine arts

2:22:32Alongside her Jason Harrow otherwise known as Canadian rapper Cardinala Fischel earned their honorary doctorate degree for his contribution to the arts

2:22:40During his remarks he spoke to a quote and said the creative adult is the child who survived

2:22:46I felt those words so deeply in my soul as I knew exactly what they went

2:22:51But my heartfelt was so much grief my people and people like have many children that didn't survive

2:22:57We have yet to find all the residential school kiddos that never returned home like the unmarked graves that were discovered in Camlup, CC

2:23:03As you folks consider what is like to be in a creative adult in Guelph

2:23:07Also, remember the indigenous peoples Canada committed cultural genocide of who didn't survive and could never have the privilege of being creative

2:23:15We have work to do you have work to do to take the first step forward to do right by indigenous community

2:23:21I look forward to seeing the indigenous framework the city has hired a consultant to do

2:23:25But the work cannot wait for the framework and needs to start today. We go ahead

2:23:31Thank you very much for your presentation. Is there any questions at this time?

2:23:35Okay, seeing none. Thank you very much

2:23:39Michelle peak is up next come on down and then

2:23:44Norma Mendoza you are in the wings

2:23:53Welcome. Thank you and go right ahead whenever you're ready. Oh, okay

2:24:02I'm dr. Michelle peak. I have a PhD in love and belonging with a focus on queer indigenous and human rights context

2:24:09I have a photographer

2:24:10I've had a photography practice for 12 years and have been working in the community engaged arts for a decade seven of those years as the founder and

2:24:16Executive director of art not shame

2:24:18I've spent a lot of time thinking and writing about belonging through an equity lens and now have the privilege in my work at art

2:24:24Not shame and helping create equitable spaces of belonging through the arts

2:24:27I'm here on behalf of 43 concerned members of the golf arts community about what take place on the Committee of the Whole on Tuesday June 4th

2:24:34Like the city and many in the community

2:24:37We support the use of the drill hall for the arts and culture purposes and are excited by the possibilities such use presents for achieving

2:24:43The goals set out in the city of golf strategic plan culture plan and downtown revitalization efforts

2:24:48We are concerned

2:24:49however with the city's decision to explore working exclusively with the center for

2:24:53Golf Center for visual arts and to provide them with ten thousand dollars from the 2024 community investment strategy account

2:25:00We believe decisions related to the use of the drill hall for arts and culture should be made in a community engaged way and

2:25:06Want to caution against further perpetuating systemic inequity in the sector and contributing contravening the city's own commitment to community engagement

2:25:15The city of gold community engagement policy explains that involving the public in the decision-making process related to matters that affect them

2:25:21And that they can meaningfully influence leads to better decisions that help the community realize its vision

2:25:27The policy outlines the city's commitment to building relationships with and engaging community members from equity denied groups

2:25:33Who have diverse living and lived experiences?

2:25:37In the original RF EOI the city made clear that no funds are available within their long-term capital plan to support further

2:25:44restoration and revitalization of the drill hall

2:25:47Nor would they be responsible for any costs associated with

2:25:51Revising a proposal say through a feasibility study the parameters set forth in agenda item 6.2 point 1

2:25:58Introduced the potential of significant financial investment from the city at the request of council as well as the issuing of ten thousand dollars to the

2:26:06GCVA when many of Guelph's long-standing arts orgs are struggling to stay afloat

2:26:11At the time of the RF EOI's issue to the public then

2:26:16Potential applicants would not have had reason to believe that financial assistance in obtaining a feasibility study or

2:26:22Further financial investment from the city would be available to them and would have made their decision to apply or not to apply based on that knowledge

2:26:29Which is why we believe you have in front of you only one proposal in a city rich with artists and arts organizations

2:26:35While council is at will to make decisions on behalf of its constituents

2:26:38We believe that the process by which we arrived here will exclude and has excluded the very equity denied community members

2:26:45That both our strategic plan and culture plan purport to prioritize in

2:26:49Thinking of action five of the strategic plan to provide excellent equitable and barrier free services

2:26:55action 13 supporting community well-being

2:26:58In the culture plan objective three uphold truth and reconciliation by supporting indigenous community members to reclaim

2:27:05Exercise and share their cultural practices for which they need space

2:27:09Objectives two and four of the culture plan to increase access to affordable space for artists to create rehearse perform and exhibit

2:27:16Prioritize equity deserving artists and audience audiences in municipal cultural programming

2:27:20Significantly space allocation in

2:27:24Considering these actions and objectives we cannot achieve any of these objectives or actions at least not with integrity

2:27:31Transparency and accountability without involving said groups in the process

2:27:35We believe it would be both short-sighted and inequitable for council to move forward with their recommendations outlined in agenda items point to

2:27:42What I would like to acknowledge is the hard work and passion that has gone into getting us to this point where a major city asset is being considered for arts and

2:27:49Culture leases and for that we are grateful for and give credit to the advocacy of the GCVA and their delegates

2:27:56They have opened for the community a very promising window of opportunity

2:28:00The arts community recognizes the timeliness of this meeting and has come together in a constructive way to make sure that collectively

2:28:06We are centering principles of access equity and community engagement

2:28:11It is important that any group collective or organization be set up for

2:28:15Success when presented with such an opportunity as we have before us especially when considering the scale of the city's investment

2:28:22We must ensure that the successful applicant has the organizational history wherewithal and experience to meet the eligibility

2:28:28thresholds of the sector's major arts and capital grants be led by or have existing

2:28:34relationships equity denied community members and have a thorough understanding of an experience working with

2:28:40Working across diverse access needs

2:28:42We strongly urge council to invite any interested groups to prepare a proposal for the drill hall as an arts and culture space

2:28:48Allowing our arts community to pool our extensive experience in the service of a space that is truly for community and

2:28:54Updating the terms to provide any interested applicant with the same resources or benefits being offered to the GCVA and to

2:29:00Reallocate the $10,000 funding to a city-led community engaged feasibility study. Thank you

2:29:05Good timing. Thanks

2:29:07Just before you go I just want to see if there's a question. Oh, yep councillor busitil, please. Thank you

2:29:13Thank you very much for your presentation. So

2:29:16My experience is with music and children's music and the experience with the Guelph Youth Music Center again an asset that came together

2:29:24You know Suzuki strings Suzuki piano or many different groups and they coalesced and they formed the Guelph Youth Music Center

2:29:33Board of Directors to operate is that part of your vision like I'm trying like I see a lot of groups with different strengths and

2:29:41abilities

2:29:42But is there in the community this overarching leader that can take on the operations? I

2:29:50Can speak personally from our

2:29:53Organizations vantage point in our capacity. We certainly as a community engaged arts organization would be very well positioned in terms of

2:30:02Alignment and values, but we also know our limits in terms of capacity

2:30:06So what I imagine and I can't speak for all 43 signatories is that there would be a collective of organizations

2:30:13All of whom could potentially be anchor tenants. We're all paying for space in our various places

2:30:18leases come up

2:30:20So I imagine that that's entirely a possibility, but it would involve

2:30:25collaboration across multiple organizations of which it is like this is already beginning behind the scenes. So yes

2:30:31Just to follow up through the matter. Thank you. That's great. That's wonderful

2:30:35And that's how you know the youth music kind of started as well

2:30:38And so the next step would and what I'm hearing from here is the door is enclosed to coming together as a collective and taking that next step

2:30:47Into governance like who gets what you know the rules and all those kinds of things is that kind of what you're picturing or is it just tenants?

2:30:56That would need more community consultation I would think

2:31:01Thank you very much go ahead

2:31:06Thank you very much

2:31:08Through you mayor Guthrie to dr. Peek dr. Peek. I think I have three questions

2:31:14What I'm going to try to pull together you made reference to equity deserving artists and equity denied groups

2:31:20I was wondering if you could just expand upon those for me, please the difference between the two

2:31:26Or the similarities as well, perhaps. Yeah, I think they're two different terms for the same groups

2:31:31Okay, and so what is it to whom is it?

2:31:34Are we are we referring? Yes, so I would say at least for our organization and for many major arts funders

2:31:41We have what what are called priority groups?

2:31:43And so they have done the research in the sector to determine who are who are the groups that are least advantaged in the

2:31:49Art sector for the OEC for example that would be

2:31:53They call them new generation artists. That's under the age of I believe 30

2:31:58black racialized and indigenous artists

2:32:01artists with visible and invisible disabilities

2:32:04For in their in their case francophone artists and also artists who live outside of Toronto for our group

2:32:09I'm every group will define that somewhat differently, but they would all fall under the parameters of who least

2:32:16Benefits from the system as is to put it rather plainly for us

2:32:20We would also include in that artists with mental health and addiction challenges

2:32:25newcomers street engage folks

2:32:28So just expanding on that

2:32:31You may made reference to 43 groups or members of the arts community

2:32:36Are you talking about those groups? You feel were actually inadvertently excluded from the proposal which we received less than a month ago

2:32:45Yes, okay, and your group is art not shame

2:32:50Just enlighten me a bit

2:32:52What's art not shame?

2:32:54How does it fit into what your your arguments the argument you've been making in terms of our

2:33:00experience and qualifications or

2:33:02The work that we do sure and what anything else that you think might be of value, okay, so

2:33:08Art not shame what is seven years old where a community engaged arts organization in Guelph?

2:33:14I think it might actually be useful a lot of people use the word community engaged or community arts rather loosely

2:33:23But the Ontario Arts Council and certainly our organization actually goes by

2:33:27a specific definition, so I'll just let me just see if I can

2:33:34Oh here we go so

2:33:36Community engaged art practices are forms of collective artistic expression in this field individuals who aren't professional artists actively

2:33:44Participate in the artistic process and the artistic process is considered as important as the final product

2:33:49Both the social and artistic outcomes of community engaged art have value

2:33:53Community engaged art projects are often initiated by artists

2:33:56But also may be initiated by community members or organizations

2:33:59Their projects are undertaken for a variety of reasons, but they aim to strengthen social relationships to mobilize social action to reclaim or

2:34:07Invigorate specific cultural traditions to share artistic practices to create new intercultural artistic forms to tell important stories

2:34:15Or to start a dialogue about a particular issue

2:34:17I won't read the rest of the definition, but the main points being here that

2:34:22By their very nature community engaged arts

2:34:26Engage with equity denied groups and practices to make the arts more accessible so

2:34:34It's not the same thing as sort of like here's a professional watercolor class come and take that

2:34:39It's looking at the whole picture the whole person how can how can we engage community members specifically those who have been excluded from these practices?

2:34:47Or their practices have been historically

2:34:50Denied banned put down

2:34:53How can we do that? How can we create art together? And then the process itself is where you get you know really great?

2:35:00transformation on a social

2:35:02Level and community level. I think I have two two final questions for you first of all

2:35:09I'm not hearing you saying that you are opposed to the principle of using the drill hall as an arts center

2:35:15you you are actually

2:35:18Advocating a broader inclusivity is that correct correct? Okay, that's an easy question

2:35:24the next one

2:35:26Perhaps through art art not shame or whatever

2:35:29One of the concerns is the city has very limited funds in order to support anything going into that center

2:35:36Can you fill me in on how arts groups can maximize funds from elsewhere? Sure?

2:35:43we've been

2:35:44renovating for the last two years a community arts hub in downtown Guelph so I'm intimately familiar with the funding opportunities for these kinds of capital projects

2:35:52the as I mentioned in my statement the eligibility threshold for those

2:35:59Funders requires that an organization have a history that they have project funding already before they're invited for for operating or before they qualify for capital

2:36:08so there are

2:36:10Funds out there at the provincial provincial and federal level

2:36:15The federal level has a more appropriate funding envelope than the provincial right now provincial would just be the OT at Ontario Trillium Foundation

2:36:22But there certainly are funds available

2:36:25But you have to be very well positioned to apply to those funds

2:36:31I have to ask what do you mean by well positioned? You mean you have a track record or you have to have a track record for a lot of these funds you can't

2:36:39If you take operating for example because we're talking about both capital costs and ongoing operating

2:36:44So art not shame is seven years old

2:36:46We you have to get a certain number of projects funded before you can be invited to apply for operating from for example the Ontario Arts Council

2:36:55So we had three successful project

2:36:58Applications and then we're invited to apply for operating and that took six years

2:37:02So you can't apply to those funds if you don't have a history as an organ as an organization or projects

2:37:10Or a track record with that particular funding body typically at the federal government

2:37:16Same thing the thresholds very high

2:37:18I just spoke to the federal granting officer the other day about this very you know possibility and she was walking me through the various options

2:37:25And we've worked closely over the last six months. So I'm yeah pretty familiar with what's required

2:37:29Thank you very much sorry for all the questions. That's okay

2:37:33Thank you, and I'm not seeing any more questions. Thanks for being with us today. Appreciate it. No problem

2:37:38Our final one is a Norma Mendoza

2:37:42Norma come on forward

2:37:58Welcome and yeah, the green light is on in your mic. So you're good to go. Okay. Thank you

2:38:03Good evening everybody. My name is Norma. My pronouns are she her I

2:38:08Appeared before you today as a citizen of Guelph who is not only a supporter of the arts, but a longtime worker in the arts

2:38:14I have worked in the visual arts for profit sector for my entire career

2:38:18Which spans just over 20 years

2:38:21So I'm well aware of the capital obstacles such as real estate monetization of product and sustainability

2:38:27That often confront artists and those supporting the arts for half of my career

2:38:32I have also been active in the not-for-profit sector

2:38:34I am a board member and current board chair of a Toronto based multidisciplinary arts organizations

2:38:41That serves those with lived or living experience and mental health and addictions in the arts sector

2:38:46And I'm also a board member and current co-chair of the Guelph based arts organization that you just heard of art not shame

2:38:53Which is a community engaged multidisciplinary arts organization that for the past seven years as you know has been offering accessible

2:39:01transformative

2:39:02Creative arts programming for equity deserving youth and adults in Guelph and Wellington County

2:39:07In both of these organizations that I am a part of the mission and mandate is to ultimately create space for creativity

2:39:15While in community to bear witness to each other's humanities as we create together in spaces that are co-cultivated as

2:39:22anti-racist

2:39:24anti-oppressive safe caring kind and compassionate and so it is not an understatement to say that these

2:39:30Organizations and organizations like this with community-led ethos and practice quite literally transform and save lives

2:39:38And so I am here today to express my support for the use of the drill hall for arts and cultural purposes and

2:39:45Similar to those who have come before me

2:39:47I am excited by the possibilities that a building of this size and location can offer the citizens of Guelph and nearby counties

2:39:54Particularly for those who are most marginalized and may not have direct access to artistic creative community cultivating spaces

2:40:02But the execution of how this initiative comes to be is incredibly important

2:40:07If we are collectively digging the foundation for a long-term arts and culture center that will best serve our diverse

2:40:13Population are we doing so by our own standards?

2:40:17Are we doing so by the city's standards?

2:40:19I speak about the city's community engagement policy

2:40:23Which outlines that the city will involve the public in the decision-making process

2:40:27Related to matters that affect them and that they can meaningfully meaningfully influence

2:40:31As this ultimately leads to better decisions that help the community realize its vision

2:40:36And so I want to remind everyone here today that it is incumbent upon the city staff

2:40:42To abide by this policy and meaningfully engage with those parties and not just rely on the report or the opinions

2:40:49Of one person or one group as is the GCVA

2:40:53Those parties that I speak of that must be included in this process of conversation and engagement are

2:40:59The emerging current and future artists for whom this infrastructure will most benefit and serve

2:41:04the workers and allies who have

2:41:07tangibly

2:41:08Demonstrated a long-standing commitment and contribution to the sector whose actions are many years long and of course those being the equity

2:41:16Deserving or as is referenced in your policy the equity denied groups that that

2:41:21Excuse me that exists in in our community which are folks being

2:41:26Which are folks that are black indigenous racialized queer and or disabled

2:41:32Your policies which by extension become our policies as supportive citizens aim to be intersectional in their approach

2:41:38Well, then so too must they be in their application

2:41:43Finally, I just want to make a note that as someone who has attended many such council meetings on various topics the last four years

2:41:49I want to point out that the city does not always engage with meaningful parties on community motions when they should

2:41:56such was the case earlier this year when

2:42:00when there was a proposed

2:42:02Public space use by-law as we saw to this controversial proposal that would restrict homeless encampments on city property

2:42:09It drew public outrage and concern

2:42:12Why because the city's utter because of the city's utter and complete lack of engagement with the community that this by-law would most

2:42:20Impact which at that time was the housing insecure community

2:42:24That was in February and here we are at another meeting with council in June

2:42:29discussing the importance of community engagement I

2:42:33Point this out as relatable feedback

2:42:35But I also name it as an opportunity for the city and the staff to activate their practices within the policies and procedures as it relates to this current terms

2:42:43the underpin the underpin these motions

2:42:47So I look forward to and I ask that a thoughtful approach be taken to meaningful community engagement that is transparent and diverse

2:42:56So that all decisions include key stakeholders that are within and outside the community that this infrastructure will best serve

2:43:04Thank you. Thank you Norma for your presentation and let me see there's a follow-up for you. Oh

2:43:11There is not you're good to keep walking. Okay. Thank you

2:43:15Okay council it is it is back to us

2:43:19Now there was

2:43:21There was

2:43:25six motions

2:43:27that came from

2:43:31That came from committee earlier this month

2:43:35They were not

2:43:38They were not staff recommended motions that were

2:43:42captured from committee. They were born from us trying to

2:43:47You know move through this issue as best as that we could

2:43:52I will just state transparently that

2:43:57You know the whole reason for committee is for that sort of

2:44:02Deep dive and discussion and debate to try to figure out like how we could you know move forward in any way and

2:44:09The reason why it's at the beginning of the month and then we're here at the end of the month is to afford us that time

2:44:14To be able to wrestle with what we've done to validate with what we've done consider new information

2:44:21And I just want to state up front that I believe that that has really taken place like sincerely that's that's taken place and

2:44:28Our staff have

2:44:31You know answered a lot of questions from us as counselors that have been

2:44:37Wrestling individually collectively trying to figure out what is the best way forward where there seems to be

2:44:47Unity if I could you know, maybe not unanimous, but there's unity to a point of a majority of counsel anyways where

2:44:55We don't want to see the drill hall be put up for sale right now

2:44:59I think there's some unity around that and also

2:45:03around this

2:45:05Potential for something around arts and culture in that building. I think that there is

2:45:10There's a spark that's been lit there for sure. So

2:45:14In saying that I

2:45:17You know, there is a some counsel

2:45:21Motions of an alternative nature that have been proposed by our staff and

2:45:27I think

2:45:30it would be maybe best for us to look to

2:45:35Not table what has flown from committee to here and instead let's start a discussion

2:45:42Based on some some new new direction that might encompass some of those answers and the wrestling that we've done as

2:45:50As a counsel over over the last few weeks

2:45:54With saying that and thank you for giving me that time

2:45:57I'll just turn over to counselor downer and

2:46:02Recognition through to counselor Koran as well

2:46:05That maybe they can kind of pick the pitana from what I've said to kind of continue the conversation around maybe a

2:46:13Different direction that we go. I'll turn the mic over to you

2:46:16Thank you. So

2:46:19Yes, we've heard a lot in the last month and and you know decisions were made at the last meeting and I think I agree with

2:46:26With you, Mr. Mirror that there's there's a lot of agreement around wanting to just give the opportunity here

2:46:33Realizing the opportunity that we have in front of us that won't probably really happen a game when and that aligns with

2:46:41Our cultural plan not just this cultural plan

2:46:44But the previous cultural plan that was embedded in the parks and rec cultural plan which call for a

2:46:50Visual arts center. So this has been around even before the platform. So and and you know kudos to to the

2:46:59To the Guelph Center for visual arts for so coming forward and keeping this issue alive and saying don't sell it

2:47:06So I do want to acknowledge that but in the time between those motions. We've sort of discovered that okay. There's some gaps here

2:47:14That in our community that we need to do a much more

2:47:19broader and inclusive

2:47:20consultation and that this the city should probably take a leadership rule as I think one of our speakers mentioned in that in

2:47:27That feasibility study and consultation about the cultural arts center. So at that point I'd ask

2:47:33To have the motion put up and I will read it to make sure that that other everybody has a chance to understand

2:47:40And

2:47:42And council Quran is going to second it so it's the staff be directed to allocate up to

2:47:4725,000 from the unspent

2:47:502024 community investment strategy account to be used towards conducting a city-led

2:47:56Feasibility study and community engagement process for potential future arts and culture uses in the drill hall and report back to city council

2:48:04No later than March 31st

2:48:062025 and

2:48:08That the city of wealth continue to own the drill hall building and continue to be responsible to find and maintain the current state of the

2:48:16structural elements and primary systems

2:48:19estimated at approximately

2:48:21125,000 annually

2:48:23so my my expectation is that this this process will

2:48:29include indigenous community and and others

2:48:33and be inclusive so that

2:48:35And it will be a city-led through our engagement process

2:48:40So that we have the time to do this properly and properly engage with the the arts and culture in the community

2:48:47So I really appreciate everybody coming forward and rallying to this point because I do think

2:48:55Having come up with our family of artists

2:48:59It's important

2:49:04Brian did you want to speak to the motion as the seconder?

2:49:07Absolutely, and the counselor downer has

2:49:10Encapsulated a lot of that I mean from what I heard in the community and from this council and from our staff

2:49:16over the last

2:49:17well, not just the last year or the last month but

2:49:22The the whole presentation of the culture plan and the strap plan is that we do care about arts and arts and culture and and

2:49:31proper engagement protocols

2:49:33and community and

2:49:36From this council that the adaptive reuse of the building the

2:49:40Taining of community ownership

2:49:43activating the culture plan bringing

2:49:46Economic development and tourism to the downtown

2:49:50Indigenous reconciliation

2:49:51There's there's a whole package of really great things that can happen here and the time is now if we don't get this right

2:49:59We've lost this opportunity

2:50:01I think forever to have a community art space because there is not another single building that I can think of in the

2:50:08Not just in the downtown, but in our in our city portfolio where this can happen

2:50:13So if we don't take the time to get this right

2:50:16It will be potentially generations before we have another opportunity like this

2:50:22So this isn't just a legacy piece for this council from previous councils

2:50:26This is our gift to the future and let's get it right and take the time we need to do it

2:50:32Great. Thank you councillor Allt and then Pusatil

2:50:36Thank you very much. Mayor Guthrie. I will support these motions and in doing so

2:50:41I want to point out that I do want to thank first of all the creative arts Center

2:50:46For providing the initiative to actually quote save the drill hall

2:50:50I think that that's very important should not be missed

2:50:52But I'd also like to thank the delegates who came forward tonight for the very expansive inclusive and thought-provoking

2:50:59presentations that were made that point out that that art is not just necessarily that which is made

2:51:05quote by by artists that are at the point of

2:51:10Manifesting their arts, but also those that are manifesting many other things

2:51:14I would also be remiss if I didn't point out that the the points that were raised in terms of ensuring that the indigenous

2:51:21Communities are consulted and the important points raised about the need for inclusivity of the indigenous communities is equally important

2:51:28What I see that we have here is a consequence of these motions is the opportunity to build something even better than what we saw in the

2:51:36First proposal which was an important addition to the revitalization of downtown

2:51:41This is an this is an important revitalization with inclusivity at its heart

2:51:47Thank you, Councillor Caton and then Gibson. I'm sorry, you know, I just skipped my friend of the right

2:51:55You're so close

2:51:56Councillor boost till first then Kate and then Gibson. Thank you and through the mayor. Thank you to the delegations

2:52:03I have a question if I may through to the staff in the motion

2:52:08When it speaks about feasibility just if the staff can reassure me does that include governance?

2:52:15Because that is the need to build capacity and cohesion for

2:52:20Sustainability, you know that if you could just reassure me that it's not just the economic feasibility of who can pay what for rent

2:52:27That there is governance included in that

2:52:30Through the mayor to council boost until certainly that would be something that we would consider

2:52:35We haven't done a lot of work on scoping what that would look like

2:52:38But I think that is certainly something that we can take away and make sure that we include yep, Dana and Tammy are nodding. So yes

2:52:45Thank you, that's all

2:52:49Okay, Caten Gibson or work

2:52:55I'll also be supporting this motion. I thought it was really poignant to when I heard the call outs on

2:53:03The types of process and how

2:53:06groups that are equity deserving wouldn't necessarily

2:53:09think that they could apply for more or that the money would be given because I

2:53:15Definitely in that category myself. I would not have thought of those things

2:53:20so I

2:53:22Really I'm looking forward to getting more inclusive feedback from all the groups. I think the delegates

2:53:29I also think the

2:53:30GCBA for the initial push to keep the building because I think it's an important

2:53:37Moment for Guelph. Thanks

2:53:40Thank you Gibson and then or work

2:53:43Thank you through you, Mr.

2:53:45Mayor so maybe I'll just start by saying thank you to the members of the community that came forward to speak

2:53:51About the process that happened at community the whole I know at least myself

2:53:55And I think maybe one other counselor did express a lot of concerns at that community all around the whole process of handing

2:54:02$10,000 to one group without any kind of open open consultation or open consideration of other groups

2:54:07So thank you for being the I guess the conscience for council is that didn't work at community of all

2:54:14Being said I am a little concerned about clause two. I feel like that is pretty presumptuous that we would never consider

2:54:22Selling the drill. I'm okay with clause one. I think doing some more engagement on what could be at the drill

2:54:28Hall is aligned with what we talked about at community the whole but I would just remind counsel that clause two is counsel's is

2:54:35staff's

2:54:37recommendation to us that we that we consider selling that that asset so

2:54:41I'm just wondering why clause two was included and if that is sort of preempting anything that we find out in the

2:54:49In the next couple of months with this public consultation. Are we

2:54:53Are we making a conclusion on the drill hall before any kind of consideration of of

2:54:59Public consultation maybe the outcome is that we don't have a unified group and we should consider selling it

2:55:04Why are we taking the the sale of the item off the table at this time?

2:55:10Through the mayor to councillor Gibson the intention of clause two was simply through the process of clause one so and perhaps the wording

2:55:17Maybe in how we worded it that got missed

2:55:19But that is the intention that we will continue to own the drill hall building until the complete until we report back to council

2:55:26so clause two is

2:55:29Because we need to continue to own it through the time of doing the feasibility study when we report back to council

2:55:35No later than March 31st 2025

2:55:38We will come back to you with a report at which time then the decision is still counsel's on what to do

2:55:43We could be exactly back in the same place that we are now and you could be going back to the original staff

2:55:49Recommendation which is to sell the drill hall when we come back to you with that feasibility study at the end of March 2025

2:55:56So the the intention of clause two is simply to get us to the end of March 2025

2:56:01So the intention is that we will retain ownership of it until then at which time we will come back to you and council retains the decision making authority

2:56:09Okay, thank you. So three mr. I'll ask a very straightforward question

2:56:14So maybe a straightforward response

2:56:18You're regardless of how this consultation goes

2:56:22There will not be a need for a reconsideration vote

2:56:25On that second recommendation

2:56:30Through through the mayor. I do not believe so in the clerk. I I think we are I think everybody is nodding in agreement

2:56:37With what I have said, which is that there will not need to be a reconsideration

2:56:42This simply gets us back before you by March 31st 2025 at which point you will have full decision making authority as to whether to retain the drill hall or

2:56:51to sell it

2:56:53Okay, so maybe I'll ask clerk the same question then just from

2:56:56Straight legitimacy of our of our bylaws and our regulations

2:57:01If the councillors if if another vote comes up to sell the drill hall and a councillor says that we've already voted that we will not be selling drill hall

2:57:08With that can that be requiring a reconsideration vote

2:57:12I don't I don't want to be walked into that situation tonight. Thank you

2:57:18Through you mr. Mayor to councillor Gibson one staff report back in March 2025

2:57:22There would be no reconsideration if there was a motion at that point

2:57:26To sell the drill hall a motion prior to that point would be a different situation, but in that specific scenario, there would be no

2:57:32required

2:57:33Okay, thank you

2:57:36Thank you and councillor roorke has said that she does not need to

2:57:40Ask any questions or say anything at this time. So

2:57:43Thank you

2:57:44I will call the vote then on this

2:57:48And just before I do

2:57:50I

2:57:51I just want to say that I think this is the best the best route to go

2:57:56and

2:57:58I I'm excited. I'm actually excited to see what comes of it. So

2:58:03I I hope it works

2:58:05I actually do I sincerely hope it works out. So with that, I'll call the vote is anyone against

2:58:13No, that's unanimous. That's that's great. Thank you very much

2:58:16yeah

2:58:18And now we're going to go to the bylaws council alt

2:58:22Would you mind moving the bylaws for us please? Thank you and I'll just see if councillor chew would be willing to second

2:58:29Perfect moved alt seconded chew that bylaws

2:58:322024 inclusive 209 38 209 40 209 52

2:58:38209 54

2:58:40209 55 209 57 be approved subject to section 248 point 11

2:58:47Bracket 4 of the municipal act through you mr. Mary and apologies for the interruption

2:58:53I'll just note bylaw 209 38 is being approved tonight as amended that is a single-use bylaw. Thank you as amended. Yeah

2:59:00Thank you

2:59:01As stated as amended for that particular bylaw

2:59:05Already moved and seconded. Is there anything on the bylaws?

2:59:08Hearing and seeing none. I'll call the vote is anyone against the bylaws

2:59:13Hearing and seeing none that passes unanimously

2:59:18Who hasn't moved a motion tonight? I bet you councillor Caton hasn't moved a motion tonight

2:59:25Adjournment yes

2:59:27And chew is good a second

2:59:30All right

2:59:32He wants to stay here all night

2:59:34All right moved and seconded for adjournment. Does anyone against?

2:59:38Nobody that's unanimous as well. Have a good night everyone. Thank you so much