Committee of the Whole

14:22Okay, everyone I'd like to call the meeting to order with those my friends online if you don't mind just popping your

14:29Camera on there if you can thank you, and I do have regrets from Colosson and

14:36I think Councillor Caron will be joining us soon, but right off the top. We're looking to move into a

14:43closed session and

14:45And I'll just read that out for us there the first one titled proposed parkland acquisition

14:51advancing affordable housing on city-owned properties that the Council of the City of Guelph now hold a meeting that is closed to the public pursuant to section

14:592392CK and

15:01F of the Municipal Act regarding a proposed or pending acquisition or disposition of land by the municipality or local board a

15:09Position plan procedure criteria or instruction to be applied to any negotiations carried on or to be carried on by or on behalf of the

15:16Municipality or local board and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege and couldn't communications necessary for that purpose

15:25There's also a second one as well

15:30Oh, it's on both sorry that's on both sorry my apologies that's two there's two items covered under that one right there

15:36Who on council is going to move that for me?

15:40Guller

15:41Alt is seconding. Thank you before I do that though in the open session

15:45Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest any general nature there of for those items of closed?

15:51Hearing and seeing none. I'll then call the votes anyone against going into close on those two items

15:57That's nobody that's unanimous. Thank you very much. We will move into closed session and I'll do a summary

16:03Where I can when we return

16:06Mike test Mike test testing one two three Mike test one two three testing testing

1:43:56Mike test one two three Mike test one two three. All right. Good afternoon everybody and

1:55:31welcome

1:55:33It is our committee of the whole meeting for October. It is October 7th

1:55:36And it is just after two o'clock story. We started a little bit later

1:55:40We had a little bit of a hydro issue, but that's all been sorted out

1:55:43and so to kick things off if you could stand please as we

1:55:48Recognize our national anthem great. Thank you now just a moment of silent reflection as we continue

1:57:23Great. Thank you

1:57:38And now our territorial acknowledgement as we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work here in

1:57:45Guelph a city that's built over rich indigenous histories as

1:57:49Guests here we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for the land and the people who live here today and the generations to come

1:57:56If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

1:57:59We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

1:58:03This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for many peoples over time

1:58:08But more specifically the Aniwana Rock and the Hone and Ashoni

1:58:12This land is held as the treaty lands and the territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation and

1:58:18Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of the long established traditional hunting grounds for the six nations of the Grand River

1:58:25Many first nations Inuit and Métis peoples who have come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today

1:58:34Thank you. Is there any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for any of the items in front of us?

1:58:42Don't hear or see anybody jumping up and down. So consider that matter closed

1:58:47I do have official regrets from counselor

1:58:51Closent today who's unable to join us

1:58:54and I'd like to just do

1:58:57One summary here from our closed

1:59:01session that we had with counsel a little bit earlier and so earlier we did go into

1:59:08closed session under two items

1:59:11The first one was called proposed parkland acquisition

1:59:15And in regards to that we did give direction to staff on that matter and

1:59:21On the second one, I actually have been given permission

1:59:26from counsel to just read a small statement

1:59:31out in regards to that

1:59:33And so here it is now city council received information

1:59:39From staff about a new financial model

1:59:42That could enable the city to develop affordable housing on city owned lands

1:59:49A report will be coming forward to city council next month

1:59:54with the first two

1:59:57potential properties that could leverage this new approach

2:00:01And so those are the sets the high-level summary

2:00:05From our in-camera discussion that we had earlier

2:00:09Thank you for that

2:00:11And so now we're just going to jump right in to our staff recognitions

2:00:16We have about four things to go through and

2:00:22We're going to start here. I think

2:00:25Chair vice chair to you have

2:00:28Some to read I know that I do as well, and I think chair downer does as well. So

2:00:35Vice chair to go right ahead

2:00:37Thank you through you mr. Chair. Good afternoon on behalf of council. It's my pleasure to recognize

2:00:43city staff on recent awards and achievements

2:00:46First congratulations to leafa lia leftler planner three environment in the cities

2:00:52Planning and building services department for achieving her project management professional PMP certification

2:00:58Which is the world's leading project management

2:01:01certification

2:01:02project management professionals have demonstrated

2:01:04experience knowledge and outstanding performance in achieving organizational objectives through defining and overseeing projects and resources

2:01:12This industry recognized certification is based on project life cycle leadership from initiating to planning executing

2:01:20Monitoring and closing the project

2:01:22Congratulations, lia on this milestone achievement and next

2:01:34Congratulations to her vendor

2:01:36Marjana

2:01:37Clerical assistant to with the city's engineering and transportation services department her vendor received her Ontario college

2:01:44certification and bookkeeping from connoisseur good college

2:01:47Conestoga's bookkeeping program provides a holistic sets of skills and knowledge

2:01:52Offering fundamental skills and financial accounting personal income tax and payroll the program also works to develop critical

2:01:59interpersonal and collaborative skills which will help her vendor continue to build

2:02:03Relationships across the city

2:02:05Congratulations her vendor on this important achievement in your career development. All right. Thank you and moving on to the third one

2:02:19Just your acknowledgement chair

2:02:22Karan is just not able to be in the room

2:02:25She's here in spirit and on screen and she she said that I could just read it out here for everybody

2:02:31So thank you to chair Caron. So this is a two

2:02:36City of Guelph planning initiatives that were aimed at improving housing affordability and they have earned the 2025

2:02:44plan

2:02:46O N which is plan Ontario vision award of excellence

2:02:50From the Ontario professional planners Institute

2:02:54The award was presented to staff from the City of Guelph and Dylan consulting limited at the plan O N

2:03:01Awards event on September the 18th and recognized the housing affordability strategy

2:03:07Which was approved by city council in December of 2024 as well as our introduction

2:03:14Of a planning tool called a community planning permit system

2:03:19That system streamlines approvals for roughly from roughly 180 days down to 45 days

2:03:27Guelph is setting a precedent for other cities across the province

2:03:32As we are the first urban municipality in Ontario to have this planning tool

2:03:38The awards recognize exceptional planning work and our team's commitment to advancing the profession in Ontario

2:03:46They are OPPI's highest honor

2:03:50Please join me in congratulating

2:03:53Christa walkie kushla mathews

2:03:56Lucas Malam

2:03:57Dosson Mackenzie

2:03:59Jason Downham and Kelly Guthrie

2:04:02For the work that highlights the city's commitment to delivering real

2:04:07Lasting solutions for people and families in our community when it comes to housing affordability

2:04:15Congratulations

2:04:22And finally i'll turn it over to chair downer. Hi, thank you. And so this award is for

2:04:28Jay Cranstone who is the recipient of the 2025

2:04:33Henry Cox stewardship award presented by the Guelph urban forest friends

2:04:37So jay joined the natural area stewardship team in 2019 after over 25 years in the private sector

2:04:46Much of which was focused on master planning with municipalities

2:04:50holders and community groups across Ontario and several other provinces

2:04:54Since then the expertise and professionalism jay brings to the team has contributed to the natural area

2:05:01Areas stewardship teams success of planting nearly

2:05:05100 000

2:05:07Native trees and shrubs as well as 20 000 native perennials in Guelph

2:05:13City staff share this success with a growing group of community volunteers who we see out on weekends now

2:05:20Who annually plant a third of the trees provided by the city's natural areas stewardship program

2:05:26Each year these plantings are spread across Guelph in over 50 locations

2:05:31Including 20 to 30 city supported community events

2:05:35It is truly a team effort to plan schedule roll out and care for the plantings

2:05:41Which jay is having the best time working with his nas team to accomplish such a real example of

2:05:48Collaboration with the community. I would add to

2:05:51Jay loves working with community groups here in Guelph where he raised his family and has lived for 40 years

2:05:56He finds great reward in seeing projects imagined

2:06:00Implemented and growing hearing Guelph that contribute to ecological health and biodiversity in the city

2:06:06And to see those in the community learn and become fellow stewards of the trees

2:06:12Please join me in congratulating jay as a recipient of the henry cox stewardship award presented by the Guelph urban forest friends

2:06:20And thanking him for his unwavering

2:06:22Dedication to caring for Guelph's urban trees. We are so lucky to have you

2:06:36Now for those that are here, maybe just to have a quick moment

2:06:40We can do group shots over here in front of the Guelph backdrop

2:06:44Please come on down and the vice chair myself and chair will meet you down there

2:10:47All right, thank you very much everyone and congratulations again

2:10:54We're moving into our service areas now on the agenda with the first being the service area of audit now. It is a consent

2:11:02agenda item

2:11:03Councillor, I'm sorry chair Goller. Are you okay just to maybe take care of that from where you're sitting?

2:11:09Yeah, okay. I'll turn it over to you

2:11:12Uh, thank you worship. I would like to move items 7.1 the appointment of the external auditor

2:11:20and

2:11:21We have two motions here that kpmg

2:11:24Lp be appointed as the external auditor for the city of Guelph for the fiscal year something in 2025 through

2:11:302029 and that the treasure be authorized to annually execute the engagement letter

2:11:36With kpmg lp subject to the terms approved

2:11:39If I could have a second mover and a second there

2:11:43Yes, so yeah, yeah, so yeah, we have uh

2:11:46You you you chaired me. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Councillor Richardson. Thank you for for moving on a second there. I didn't see councillor hauser

2:11:53Thank you. Uh, any questions

2:11:57No, thank you everyone. Uh, we'll call a vote anyone against

2:12:03Okay, that passes. Thank you everyone. Great. Thank you chair moving right along to our next service area

2:12:09It is the infrastructure development and environment. This will be uh more than likely a longer one

2:12:16So I think maybe we should change seats to vice chair uh, chiu to be chairing this portion of the meeting

2:12:22So just give us a moment

2:13:18Okay, everyone ready? I'll buckle up everyone

2:13:23Okay, so we're just gonna go out to our consent agenda

2:13:27And does anyone want to pull any of the items on this consent agenda?

2:13:32Thank uh, councillor ron. Yes. Yeah, the floor 10 10.1. Uh, the naming have an additional

2:13:39Addendum

2:13:41Okay, do you want to move the motion as well?

2:13:44Sure. I'll move the main motion and then I can um add the additional motion

2:13:49After you've passed the other consent item. Okay, and I see councillor

2:13:54Gawler, uh, by the second through you chair. I would like to actually pull the other item

2:13:58On the consent agenda. Okay. Well

2:14:02Okay, we'll do we'll pull we'll pull the motion and then we'll do uh counter carotten's motion

2:14:07And you have a councillor caron. Okay, great. I'm moving the main motion

2:14:13And I just want to thank staff for the work they've done and I know this is the last um

2:14:17Uh, kind of iteration of our naming committee as it currently stands as we've we've already given direction to to modify the way naming is done

2:14:26Um, when this report came out, there was a notable absence at least in my mind of a park that's remained unnamed since 1910

2:14:34Um, and I had done um a lot of back and forth communication with staff over over many years

2:14:40um beginning believe it or not 14 years ago in in 2010

2:14:45about the triangular park that is bounded by um,

2:14:49albert street water street and um, martin avenue

2:14:53It's known in the neighborhood as curly slide park purple hippo park triangle park

2:14:58brooklyn park

2:15:00and um

2:15:02That conversation over the past 14 years has gone through through no fault of staff

2:15:06I know staff have have not had their hands. No one person has had their hands on this file

2:15:12um, but it is a situation where it went from parks

2:15:17department, um

2:15:20to

2:15:21The planning department to heritage planning

2:15:24then to the naming committee and then back to heritage it's it's seen a number of of uh

2:15:29Of circular motions because it's located in the brooklyn conservation

2:15:34brooklyn and college health conservation district

2:15:37So, um, it may have been my misunderstanding that I thought that it had been on the list for naming assets this time around

2:15:45Um, because it was part of the commemoration of the heritage conservation district

2:15:50So when this report came out and I saw that it wasn't on I started that conversation with staff

2:15:55So I have worked on a on a

2:15:58On an amendment or a second clause to the report that puts the brooklyn park site back on staff radar

2:16:05Um, I do not want to bypass public process. I just want to state that publicly

2:16:10There has been a lot of community engagement. It was first raised in the 2005

2:16:16Community improvement plan. It was also raised during the 2015 heritage conservation district study

2:16:21So the name brooklyn park has come up from the community

2:16:26But I do want to make sure that there are there are public process eyes and staff eyes on the process

2:16:30So I sent a motion to staff. So

2:16:34Forgive the preamble and forgive the scratchy voice. I'm I'm homesick today

2:16:38but I just wanted to get this for consideration on committee the whole and um

2:16:43I'm I'm happy to provide any more historical information that's needed about this site

2:16:47Between now and the council meeting if anyone needs more information

2:16:51Uh, so I believe the motion is on the

2:16:57screen

2:16:58Pardon me for the interruption

2:17:00Councillor Caron. We don't have a seconder for the main motion. So before we can consider an amendment

2:17:04We do need that seconded so it's on the floor. Oh, of course. Yes. Um, I know my amendment is seconded by mary guthrie

2:17:10But you're right. We need a main motion

2:17:13yeah, so councillor

2:17:16Downer is going to second the main motion and I'm just gonna call a vote on that

2:17:20And then we can go to the second motion which you have

2:17:24And now oh councillor cain and sorry I didn't see your hand was up. Did you have something you want to say?

2:17:32Yes, I just wanted to

2:17:34through you say how happy the neighborhood is about the naming of

2:17:39uh, Sloan Hill park and they're really excited about the upcoming design process

2:17:45And so she wanted to thank the naming committee for getting that through and I know that they're they're all pretty appreciative

2:17:52Thank you

2:17:54Okay, any other comments? Okay calling the vote anyone opposed?

2:18:01None that's carried

2:18:03Okay, and now to councillor Caron's motion

2:18:07um

2:18:08Let's and do you have a seconder for that

2:18:12Um, yes, I believe um my discussions with mayor guthrie. I'm assuming you're still okay with the modified motion

2:18:20Okay, uh, I think mayor guthrie is gonna second that motion

2:18:24Um, does anyone have any comments? Maybe staff?

2:18:28We get staff maybe provide some commentary on that this as well because I think there's some history attached to this

2:18:38No, okay

2:18:40Okay, well, we just call the vote. I don't think there's much

2:18:43discussion that's needed on this one

2:18:45Uh, anyone opposed?

2:18:48None that's carried. Okay

2:18:51Great now moving on

2:18:54Councillor goller, you wanted to pull the baker library, right? Yes, sir, too. I thank you for

2:19:03Allowing me to to speak to this

2:19:05I have a motion that I would like to move if I could have it on the on the screen

2:19:10And do you have a seconder for that? Um, soon as soon as it goes up councillor Richardson has agreed to second it

2:19:16um

2:19:16And this motion is that on behalf of the city of wealth that deputy cio infrastructure development and environment subject to the

2:19:23satisfaction of the city solicitor and city treasurer be directed to enter into a lease for the baker library facility

2:19:30for

2:19:32A 40 year term that has two 10 year renewal terms

2:19:36Or a 30 year term that has two 15 year renewal terms at the discretion of the wealth public library board

2:19:43So the the main change here is that the

2:19:47Preview staff recommendation is for a 30 year term

2:19:51With two five year renewals at the discretion that has to be mutually agreed between the city

2:19:57And the library board. So the change here is that we are allowing

2:20:02Conversations to happen for a longer term

2:20:06And for those renewals to be at the discretion of the of the tenant of the library board

2:20:13What this effectively does is it gives the library the ability their reassurance that they can stay in the space

2:20:20for the length of the

2:20:22Of the lease plus the renewal terms

2:20:25And and it gives them that ability

2:20:28One of the concerns that was raised at the library board was that having a 30 year term

2:20:34With the renewal depending on approval by the city

2:20:39meant that at the 30 year term

2:20:41The library could be asked to vacate the space and they would not have a ability to

2:20:46To to challenge that so this gives more stability for the library knowing that they're going to be in the purpose built building

2:20:53That we are building for the main branch library today

2:20:57Um, and it also gives the ability

2:21:00With that greater stability it increases the ability for the library to know where they're going to be to do fund racing for the library

2:21:07Um, I would be happy to to answer any questions about this

2:21:13Okay, we can go to questions. Yeah, answer. We'll sit till thank you and through you chair too

2:21:19I'm just curious if staff can provide

2:21:22Some comments on this

2:21:25I'm I'm trying to have a discussion, but I'm feeling a little bit kind of blindsided on the

2:21:31The duration and the addition of at the end at the discretion of the gulf public library if if staff is able to please comment

2:21:39Yeah, no problem. Why don't we have staff just come up and provide some commentary for us?

2:21:50Uh, thank you and through you chair chou

2:21:53um to councillor Busuttil

2:21:55um

2:21:56we when staff was preparing this lease we really tried to align the

2:22:01Lease term to what a typical life cycle of the building would be and what I mean by life cycle is where there would be required

2:22:09Um investment to continue operations within the building

2:22:13So we expect the building to last longer, but in 30 to 50 years you will need to reinvest in a lot of the

2:22:19um, you know capital intensive components of the building to continue operations within the building

2:22:25and so the

2:22:26The lease term as originally contemplated would align to that 30 to 50 year life cycle where we expect that intensive capital investment

2:22:35um

2:22:36the goal of the

2:22:39mutual agreement between the city and the library board was

2:22:42um under the

2:22:44Intent that we would be working together in partnership as we both are co-tenants of that building in essence

2:22:50The city runs the parking garage the library runs the library portion obviously and so

2:22:55um, we were looking to work together and also the city

2:23:00You know as we sign up for these longer terms

2:23:02We also need to be prepared to be responsible for that term

2:23:05So for signing up for a 60 year term city council just needs to realize that they have a responsibility as that under the lease

2:23:15Thank you. Just follow up. Thank you. Thank you through the chair. Thank you very much for that

2:23:20um

2:23:21Just a question. So going from 30 and two fives is 40 years to 40 and two 15s is 70 years

2:23:29From a staff perspective and just what you've shared about the you know the the building the life of the building

2:23:34Is there a concern about uh going?

2:23:38From 30 to 40 and 10 to 30

2:23:42So through the chair, um

2:23:45there's

2:23:47Really we're looking at that 30 to 50 year window and there's multiple ways to get to that

2:23:51But we would recommend as staff staying within that window for the for the term of the lease

2:23:57Thank you. Okay councillor Allt

2:23:59Thank you very much. Councillor Boustele's questions were similar to mine

2:24:03But I mean i'm going to start off with one to

2:24:05Councillor goller the mover and to ask respectfully

2:24:09Have you been delegated from the library board to speak on behalf of the library?

2:24:16Is there a formal motion formal request for you to do this?

2:24:21Uh through your chart two

2:24:23There's no formal motion from the library board. I am on the library committee that looks at the disposition and

2:24:31At the last library meeting we did give direction for our cao to negotiate a longer term lease with the city

2:24:40So that direction was given. Uh, so subsequently, uh, mr. Atkinson

2:24:45Mr. Ian and myself we met to discuss this and as part of that conversation

2:24:51This this is where the cao and I agreed that we would bring this forward to the city

2:24:58Thank you. I have no problem with you bringing it forward

2:25:00I am reluctant to support it at this point because I think the principles that have been enunciated by staff on the life

2:25:08Lifespan of the building and a standard lease extending up to about 50 years is actually quite sensible

2:25:16And I would also be very concerned that

2:25:18By doing anything beyond this without having

2:25:22significant input from the library board including a solid rationale in front of me beyond the verbal rationale that I would be

2:25:30potentially

2:25:31Supporting something that puts both the city and the library in in some kind of jeopardy down the road

2:25:36So I will support the original recommendation

2:25:41Mayor Guthrie

2:25:43Thank you through your chair. I just need to yes or no

2:25:47Is what councillor Goller presented here is staff comfortable with?

2:25:51Uh through the chair to you mayor guthrie

2:25:57um, I would recommend sticking within that 30 to 50 year window and so

2:26:03Going out to there was a couple of different options there

2:26:06And so going out past kind of that 50 year into a 60 or 70 year window staff would not

2:26:11Recommend that okay, then thank you very much. I am in agreement with councillor Allt

2:26:16I think the staff recommendation that was originally negotiated between

2:26:21In good faith between both parties. I think is the one that we should we should stick with

2:26:25But I appreciate

2:26:27um

2:26:28The idea isn't concerned that councillor Goller has brought forward on it, but I feel comfortable with what staff originally recommended

2:26:35Okay councillor downer

2:26:37Could I see the motion again, please before we vote on it?

2:26:54Well, I just I'm just curious if it can be amended to a

2:26:5940 year with just one 10 year renewal term. I don't know

2:27:04If you want to stay within the 50

2:27:06um

2:27:08If that's if the intent is to create more predictability, would you be more comfortable with that?

2:27:14through you miss uh chair to staff

2:27:17I'm just gonna look to clerks. We do an amendment to the amendment

2:27:21We do that

2:27:23Through through you mr. Chair um

2:27:25Because this wasn't moved as an amendment. It's just a motion on the floor. It can be amended any way that comes

2:27:31Okay, do you want to put that on the floor?

2:27:34I'm asking

2:27:36Yeah, I'm asking staff uh through you to through the chair to you. Uh

2:27:47I would say that

2:27:48there

2:27:52We're within that window, but there's

2:27:54um

2:27:55the discretion of the

2:27:57The library is also a bit of a concern here going back and forth and

2:28:03Ultimately if we have that direction kind of within that window that staff is comfortable with we could take that back to them

2:28:09um, so

2:28:13I think we can work with that if that's where council's leaning towards

2:28:20Okay, mayor guthrie

2:28:24I'm just wondering if maybe there's a meet in the middle option at this moment

2:28:28Where it has been raised respectfully respectfully it's been raised

2:28:32This is committee

2:28:35Would councillor downer's idea which ties into your idea was what you present presented maybe be of takeaway for staff

2:28:43They've kind of heard is there a way that we can do the math that might might

2:28:48And it gives you like a month almost to work with the

2:28:51CEO and the chair and and such at the library and come back with a memo at the end of the month

2:28:56To all of council to determine. No, we should stick with what you originally did

2:29:00Or maybe there is a meet in the middle option and we can make that decision maybe better at the end of the month

2:29:06Just wondering what what staff would feel on that option instead of just trying to drive home

2:29:11Sort of on the on the fly changes

2:29:15Uh through the chair. Yes, we can definitely do that

2:29:19So maybe through you chair

2:29:22I'm just wondering if maybe

2:29:23Maybe the mover would be willing to then just remove the motion that's on the floor right now

2:29:28But definitely the conversation has been captured staff have agreed that they'd come back with a memo before

2:29:33The end of the month with more dialogue with the library and we can be better informed

2:29:38And councillor Goller you good with that? I am I am good with that still the conversation. Yeah. Thank you

2:29:44Okay, and you're pulling them in

2:29:46I'll I'll remove them in just for clarification

2:29:49To staff do they need any direction at this point because we'll come to the council meeting without

2:29:56recommendation from committee

2:29:58CEO Baker, are you good with that?

2:30:03I would thank you, uh, mr. Chair. I would like to defer to the city clerk to speak to

2:30:09the removal of the motion

2:30:13through you

2:30:15Mr. Chair, I think council has two options you can pass the staff recommendation

2:30:18Which just means that recommendation will be a council, you know facility staff and others are going to do that work and come back with a memo

2:30:24Alternatively, you could just refer this item in its entirety to council and not vote on any particular motions and wait for that memo

2:30:31Either one of those. Yeah, well, we do that latter than yeah

2:30:36Um through you chair. I'll move deferral of this item to the count

2:30:41Referral of this item to the council meeting at the end of this month

2:30:47That and seconded by councillor Allt. Okay anyone opposed?

2:30:53Okay, great. Thank you everyone

2:30:58Okay, we're gonna move forward with uh, the macdenow and allen structures and I think we have a staff presentation

2:31:05So we'll give them a minute to come forward

2:31:47Okay

2:31:48Good afternoon mayor gathrey and members of council. My name is terry gayman

2:31:52I'm the city's general manager of engineering and transportation services and city engineer. I'm joined today by some colleagues

2:31:58I have andrew miller the city's project engineer for our downtown renewal work

2:32:02Reg res formed the city's general manager or excuse me manager of design construction

2:32:07And on his way down is jack malin the city's heritage planner

2:32:11So we're excited to be here today to give you an update on the status of a very significant and impactful project within our downtown

2:32:18Replacing improving the public realm infrastructure in downtown golf is a fundamental component of golf's overall long-term

2:32:25sustainable city building vision

2:32:27The infrastructure investment will support anticipated new growth and replace existing and aging infrastructure

2:32:34As a reminder the work to renew downtown is significant and has been underway for many many years

2:32:40The downtown infrastructure renewal program

2:32:43builds on a vision set out in the downtown secondary plan

2:32:46Which was completed in 2012 and the 2014

2:32:50streetscape manual

2:32:52Significant effort over the past decade has gone into preparing the city to undertake this generational renewal

2:32:57of municipal downtown infrastructure

2:32:59And with intentional and responsible planning the infrastructure we build today will create foundation for prosperity

2:33:06sustainability and well-being

2:33:08For many generations to come

2:33:14So the image on the screen is one of my favorite images just to give you a sense of how complex and

2:33:18You know interquined downtown renewal planning is

2:33:22And it also gives you a sense of sort of the duration of time in which we've been working on this great work

2:33:27And the future that is still to come

2:33:29The downtown renewal program is a massive undertaking by by the city to transform how downtown golf looks

2:33:35Feels and functions while also preserving its unique cultural heritage

2:33:39The city is making significant investments in infrastructure redevelopment and transportation to make downtown golf an even stronger cultural and civic hub

2:33:47For the city and the wider area

2:33:49Our renewal efforts will create the foundation for future prosperity sustainability and well-being downtown

2:33:56We are in the implementation phase of the program and we are making good progress

2:34:00We have already unlocked housing capacity through the wellington and windham

2:34:04Capacity improvements project and are in the process of issuing construction tender for the windham street north project

2:34:11While we prepare for construction on windham street in the new year

2:34:14We are also initiating the detailed design of the following project the macdenow street reconstruction, which is planned for 2028

2:34:21This is the topic that we are here today to present with you

2:34:24I'm now going to turn it over to andrew miller the city's project engineer to walk you through the environmental assessment findings and results

2:34:39The downtown infrastructure renewal program

2:34:42began with three planning assignments the windham street north environmental assessment and the capital implementation plan have both reached

2:34:49completion and been approved by council

2:34:52The macdenow and allen structures environmental assessment is the final piece of the planning puzzle

2:34:57The macdenow ea as i will refer to it from here on

2:35:01Is a study to assess options for treatments to the existing structures and potential new structures

2:35:07To maintain and improve the safe and connected transportation system at the speed river crossing of macdenow street and the surrounding area

2:35:16Five structures were assessed through this study and the study considered

2:35:21How to best integrate the potential solutions of each structure into one overall recommended solution

2:35:28As a quick reminder of how the municipal class environmental assessment process works. There are several phases of progression

2:35:35Bay's one of the maxinell ea began in 2021 with the development of the problem opportunity statement that governed the entire study

2:35:43This was followed by evaluating the options where a long list of potential options was developed and narrowed down until we reached the preferred option

2:35:51We're now at the point of preparing the project file report for public review

2:35:56Following approval of the recommended solution by council

2:35:59The notice of completion will be filed with the ministry of environment conservation and parks at which point there will be a 30-day review period

2:36:06Following the 30-day review period the environmental assessment will be considered complete

2:36:11And the project can move forward into the implementation phase

2:36:15The study area for this project included all city-owned structures in the area of the macdenow street crossing of the speed river

2:36:24These structures include the macdenow bridge which conveys macdenow street across the river

2:36:29The allen's bridge which was formerly used as a pedestrian bridge until being closed to the public due to structural condition

2:36:37The allen's dam spillway which can be seen underneath the macdenow bridge the allen's dam sluice way

2:36:44A concrete channel and gate on the east side of the river and the warded downtown bridge

2:36:48Which has not yet been built however is an important piece of the transportation network in the study area

2:36:55This study does not include an assessment of the gulf junction railway bridge

2:36:59Which crosses the river to the south of the allen's bridge or the metro links railway bridge

2:37:04Which crosses the river in this location at a higher elevation

2:37:08The five structures were studied in conjunction to determine the optimal recommended solution for the structures altogether

2:37:17The first of the structures to be considered is the macdenow bridge

2:37:20This bridge is in poor condition and will be in need of replacement

2:37:24Within the next five to ten years the macdenow bridge currently supports four lanes of vehicular traffic with narrow sidewalks on either side

2:37:31The macdenow bridge is currently designated as a truck route providing connection for truck traffic from elizabeth street to the east

2:37:37To wellington street on the west side of the river

2:37:40and a transit route

2:37:41Additionally the 2022 transportation master plan designated macdenow street from norfolk street to elizabeth street

2:37:47as both pedestrian priority network and cycling spine network

2:37:53The short list of options for the macdenow bridge are as follows

2:37:56To do nothing allow the bridge to continue to deteriorate

2:38:00Rehabilitate the bridge and extend its life cycle

2:38:04Rehabilitate the bridge with a widening to meet the transportation master plan goals of providing active transportation crossing

2:38:11Replace the bridge for vehicular traffic only

2:38:15So replace the bridge effectively as it is or replace the bridge and widen it to accommodate active transportation

2:38:22This would include widening to the north and adding a multi-use path

2:38:25connecting from one side of the bridge to the other

2:38:28Ultimately the recommended solution is replace and widen the bridge to accommodate active transportation

2:38:36The allen's bridge is a pedestrian bridge located directly under the metro links railway bridge immediately south of the macdenow bridge

2:38:47This bridge has been closed for several years due to structural degradation and the risk to public safety

2:38:53The structure is listed as a heritage structure. However, it is not designated

2:38:57The short list of options for the allen's bridge include the following

2:39:01Do nothing and allow the bridge to continue to deteriorate

2:39:05undertake minor rehabilitation for heritage purposes only but not open the bridge for public crossing

2:39:11Rehabilitate the bridge for pedestrians and cyclists, which would include replacing the entire superstructure of the bridge

2:39:18or remove the bridge entirely

2:39:23Here you can see the evaluation matrix for the allen's bridge based on the evaluation criteria developed as part of the

2:39:30It was determined that removal of the bridge was the recommended solution

2:39:34From the perspective of the structural integrity the social environment

2:39:39Heritage and cultural impacts and costs the removal of the allen's bridge with the inclusion of a commemorative strategy

2:39:45Is the recommended approach to the bridge? I'll now invite jack up to talk about the heritage aspects

2:40:01As we look ahead to the future of guelph's infrastructure, it is important that we also honor the stories and structures that have shaped our cities past

2:40:10For generations the bridges in this location

2:40:13Referred to as allen's bridge have served not just as a physical crossing over the speed river

2:40:18But as a symbolic gateway to the heart of guelph

2:40:22Its presence has anchored the eastern approach to the city and holds a deep historical residence for many residents

2:40:29The study area for this ea

2:40:31Has been in a constant state of evolution ever since john guld fell to sugar maple at this location to signify the founding of guelph

2:40:40The bridge we are considering today is the fifth bridge constructed in this location with mcdonnell street bridge being the sixth

2:40:48allen's bridge is a significant structure in our city's history

2:40:53According to a consultant's report completed as part of this ea. It meets the criteria for designation under the ontario heritage act

2:41:01I want to note that while the heritage advisory committee did not recommend designation

2:41:05They did recommend that the bridge retained and preserved in its current location

2:41:11As noted in the previous slides retaining the bridge in this location for pedestrian use would require complete dismantlement and replacement

2:41:19Of all original material except the railings

2:41:23Replacing everything but the railings means the bridge would become a replica

2:41:28Not a conserved heritage asset

2:41:32I walk past allen's bridge every day on my way to city hall

2:41:36I share the strong emotional attachment that many residents in the city feel for this bridge

2:41:41The challenge we are faced with is to find compromise between the need to remember our past and the need to move forward in the present

2:41:49I believe staff are recommending an approach that will ensure the memory of allen's bridge lives on for future generations

2:41:55While creating pedestrian crossings that better serve the citizens of guelph

2:42:00First we propose retaining and conserving the bridge's ornamental railings

2:42:04And any salvageable structural elements

2:42:07These components will be repurposed and integrated into the surrounding area near the original crossing

2:42:13Ideally as components of a viewing platform

2:42:16accompanied by commemorative signage

2:42:19Retaining and conserving the railings and utilizing them to tell the story of allen's bridge will allow us to maintain a tangible and visible link to the past

2:42:29Incorporating the railings into the redesigned public space will not only preserve the most significant

2:42:34architectural feature of the bridge

2:42:36That will foster a sense of place by anchoring community memory and identity in the landscape

2:42:43Secondly staff propose that we collaborate closely with the art and culture advisory committee and the heritage advisory committee

2:42:50Their expertise will help guide commemorative opportunities as staff enter the design phase of this project

2:42:56Ensuring that the bridge's historical significance is meaningfully reflected

2:43:00in the final design

2:43:03It is staff's intention to bring the final design forward to council for approval

2:43:08By preserving key elements of allen's bridge and integrating them into a modern design

2:43:13We honor our city's heritage while building infrastructure that meets today's needs

2:43:17This balanced approach reflects our shared responsibility to both history and progress

2:43:23Back to andrew

2:43:29Thank you jack

2:43:32All right

2:43:32So the allen's dam is a historic feature of downtown gualph and has had and has had a significant impact on the environment of the speed river upstream of the dam

2:43:43The two key structures of the dam are the sluice way pictured above with the

2:43:47Flow control gate visible and the spillway where water typically flows over the dam under the maxinell bridge as shown in the lower right picture

2:43:55The structures are currently showing signs of structural degradation and an assessment was necessary to determine how the structure should be resolved

2:44:02The short list of options are as follows do nothing and continue to deteriorate

2:44:08Rehabilitate the sluice way and spillway to to extend the service life of the structures

2:44:13Remove the sluice way and spillway and naturalize the river

2:44:17Or remove the sluice way and spillway and build a new dam upstream with an active transportation underpass

2:44:23The fourth option draws inspiration from a community proposal championed by late counselor bob bell

2:44:28The concept includes turning the new dam into a waterfall to create a visual highlight while entering downtown from the east

2:44:34And provides for an active transportation underpass to avoid the upgrade crossing of mac denel street on the downtown trail

2:44:41The recommended option is to rehabilitate the sluice way and spillway based on the criteria of structural

2:44:48and technical feasibility social environment the natural environment and cost

2:44:54Option four was considered. However, it is anticipated that the new waterfall design would not comply with g rca policy

2:45:00And has the estimated capital cost of approximately 15 million dollars

2:45:04Based on rock construction costs based on these considerations

2:45:07It was determined that rehabilitating the structures and preserving the established ecosystem upstream of the dam is the preferred solution

2:45:15The war to downtown bridge was originally conceptualized in the downtown secondary plan approved by city council in 2012

2:45:25The intention of the bridge is to provide a safe and direct crossing

2:45:29Between downtown gulf and the ward neighborhood and tends to be part of a future trail connection from downtown to the gulf innovation district

2:45:36As illustrated in the trail master plan

2:45:39A design of the bridge was completed and tendered in 2023

2:45:43However, this project was cancelled and the concept was added to the mac denel and allen structures

2:45:48Ea to assess it as part of the network of structures in the study area

2:45:53One of the major concerns of the area is the unauthorized use of the gulf junction railway bridge by pedestrians

2:45:59The bridge is not intended or designed for public use and creates a significant safety risk to those crossing the bridge

2:46:06The short list of options for the bridge are as follows

2:46:11Do nothing and do not

2:46:13construct the bridge

2:46:15construct the 2023 tendered bridge

2:46:18construct a modified structure on the south side of the gulf junction

2:46:22Rail bridge or construct a modified structure on the north side of the gulf junction rail bridge

2:46:27The recommended solution is to construct a modified structure on the south side of the gulf junction railway bridge

2:46:32This approach allows for the construction of the bridge to create a dedicated

2:46:37Active transportation connection across the river while providing a safe alternative to using the gulf junction railway bridge

2:46:43This crossing would reestablish a historic pedestrian crossing

2:46:47that was located here from the mid 19th century to the 1970s.

2:46:51The modified design will see reduced space requirements

2:46:54for the footings at either end of the bridge,

2:46:56protecting the heritage structures on both sides of the river

2:46:59and be designed with a simple structure to control costs.

2:47:05Throughout the life of the Maxinellea public engagement

2:47:07has taken place at Key Milestones.

2:47:10The project team hosted two open house engagement events,

2:47:12both in person and online in December 2022 and December 2024

2:47:17in alignment with the assessment of the long list

2:47:19and short list of alternatives.

2:47:21Engagement summaries from both events

2:47:23are available on the project webpage

2:47:25and respondents were generally in favor

2:47:27of the recommended solutions

2:47:29when presented in December 2024.

2:47:34The project team has consulted with First Nations partners

2:47:36in accordance with the process prescribed

2:47:38in the Indigenous Relations Framework.

2:47:41Further engagement and coordination

2:47:42with First Nations will be undertaken

2:47:44throughout detailed design work and archaeological investigations.

2:47:51The overall recommendation combines the five preferred options

2:47:54to create one cohesive network of structures.

2:47:58The short list options were evaluated with consideration

2:48:00for how one solution would impact another,

2:48:03resulting in a solution that provides

2:48:05the best overall solution.

2:48:07The overall recommended solution is to replace and widen

2:48:11the Maxinellea Bridge to accommodate active transportation,

2:48:14providing an active transportation connection

2:48:16on the north side of Maxinelle Street connecting downtown

2:48:19to Arthur Street and the St. George neighborhood.

2:48:23Construct the Ward to Downtown Bridge

2:48:25south of the Guelph Junction Railway Bridge

2:48:27with a simplified structure providing an active transportation

2:48:30connection to the south of the Maxinelle Bridge

2:48:32from downtown to the Ward neighborhood

2:48:34and providing a suitable alternative

2:48:35to the Guelph Junction Railway Bridge.

2:48:38Remove the Allens Bridge and implement a heritage commemoration

2:48:41and rehabilitate the Allens Dam's looseway and spillway

2:48:45to maintain the status quo of the Speed River water levels

2:48:48and preserve habitat upstream of the dam.

2:48:51The overall recommended solution meets the goals

2:48:54of the Downtown Secondary Plan

2:48:56in constructing the additional pedestrian crossing

2:48:58over the Speed River and the Transportation Master Plan

2:49:01and Trail Master Plan goals of enhancing the pedestrian realm

2:49:04and providing safe cycling connections from downtown

2:49:07to the east end while preserving the city's structural assets

2:49:11and maintaining access into and around downtown.

2:49:15And I'll hand it back to Terry.

2:49:22We're almost there.

2:49:23I can appreciate that this is a lot of information

2:49:26to take in Council, but this is an extremely complicated

2:49:29environmental assessment with, I would argue,

2:49:31probably the most complex infrastructure arrangement

2:49:33that we have to deal with as a municipality.

2:49:36So appreciating that there's a lot in there.

2:49:39Let me just help kind of conclude where we are with

2:49:42with respect to the EA.

2:49:43So next steps.

2:49:46Once this recommendation has been established,

2:49:48the next steps completing the environmental assessment

2:49:51include Council's approval to submit the notice of completion

2:49:56for the project file with the Ministry of Environment,

2:49:58Conservation, and Parks.

2:49:59The MECP will allow for a 30-day public review

2:50:02following the filing during which the public may comment

2:50:05on the recommended solution.

2:50:07In parallel with this process, we've begun the procurement

2:50:10process for a detailed design consultant for the project

2:50:13as part of the MacDennell Street reconstruction.

2:50:15So after we finish with Wyndham Street,

2:50:17we are then turning our attention to MacDennell

2:50:20and working our way through MacDennell,

2:50:22including this area at the bridge.

2:50:26And so to conclude with that, the MacDennell and Allen

2:50:28Structures Environmental Assessment represents a thoughtful

2:50:30and forward-looking approach to renewing

2:50:32Gloss downtown infrastructure.

2:50:34By balancing commemoration and placemaking

2:50:36with modern transportation needs,

2:50:38the recommended solutions, they enhance connectivity,

2:50:40safety, and sustainability for generations to come.

2:50:43Staff's recommendations represent our commitment

2:50:46to responsible city building, honouring the past,

2:50:48what we prepare for a vibrant future.

2:50:50And with Council's approval, we'd

2:50:51be poised to move confidently into the next phase

2:50:54of the project.

2:50:57The recommendations in the staff report

2:50:59are shown on screen here.

2:51:00And essentially what staff are requesting today

2:51:02is Council's direction to submit the notice of completion

2:51:05and then to enter into the next phase of the work, which

2:51:08are the detailed design work, along with the commemoration

2:51:11and placemaking components that we're recommending

2:51:14through the staff report.

2:51:16With that, we conclude our presentation.

2:51:20Thank you, Terry and Andrew.

2:51:22Not too long.

2:51:23That's good.

2:51:26Yes, why don't we first go to our delegations,

2:51:31and then we'll go to questions from Council.

2:51:35And first, we have Mike Darman.

2:51:38All right, you got five minutes whenever you're ready.

2:51:52Thanks.

2:51:53Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie, Councillors and city staff.

2:51:56My name is Mike Darman, and I'm co-chair of GCAT at the Gusset

2:51:59Committee.

2:52:00I've referenced the Ward downtown bridge

2:52:02and most of my recent delegations at Council

2:52:04as the most important AT connection

2:52:06for a continuous active transportation network

2:52:09pathway into and outside downtown,

2:52:11connecting people to places of work, shopping, food, and play.

2:52:16However, you vote on the recommendations of the EA study

2:52:19will also determine a vision for the place where

2:52:21Guelph was founded.

2:52:22So I recommend going further, making the Macdonnell bridge

2:52:25and especially the Ward to downtown bridge pedestrian

2:52:28bridge, not just a safer means of transportation,

2:52:31but designed for placemaking, a destination in itself,

2:52:34a place that connects neighborhoods and a place

2:52:36to stop and meet friends and build community

2:52:38in a beautiful stretch of the Speed River,

2:52:40a place we can be proud to show off to friends and visitors

2:52:43alike.

2:52:44On Allen's bridge, quote, the preferred alternative

2:52:47is to remove the bridge because there are risks that

2:52:49weigh the level of service provided to the community,

2:52:52e.g. the structure does not provide a service level

2:52:55for active transportation that is commensurate with the capital

2:52:58and operating costs incurred.

2:53:00I agree.

2:53:01Now, I'd personally love to have both the Allen's and Ward

2:53:04bridges, but the Ward bridge satisfies AT desire lines

2:53:08for safety and enjoyment and the city cost concerns

2:53:10and using the GJR tracks to cross the river.

2:53:16The new Macdonnell bridge will have wider sidewalks

2:53:19and be more safe to use than the current bridge

2:53:21and is only a few meters away from the Allen's bridge.

2:53:23Regarding the spillway dam and underpass trail,

2:53:26the recommended alternative of rebuilding the dam, quote,

2:53:30was selected as the most cost effective alternative

2:53:32while also maintaining the status quo of the river's water

2:53:35level upstream of the Allen's dam.

2:53:37And a particular note is that a potential trail

2:53:40underpass of the Macdonnell bridge

2:53:41was evaluated as envisioned by community members.

2:53:45While feasibility from an engineering perspective,

2:53:47an underpass would involve significant rehabilitation

2:53:50or removal of the spillway plus related works.

2:53:53And moreover, the cost of removal and construction

2:53:55is prohibitive and will not be well received

2:53:58by those who currently enjoy the mill pond.

2:54:01For these reasons, a trail underpass was not preferred,

2:54:03end quote.

2:54:05So the underpass is highly desirable for AT safety

2:54:10and vehicular traffic.

2:54:11So I would like to see some clarification regarding parts

2:54:14of those statements by including the analysis of the cost

2:54:17breakdown report of partial full dam removal and an upstream

2:54:22dam to investigate the possibility of an underpass

2:54:25that is not clear if the prohibitive costs are

2:54:27mainly attributed to removing the dam upstream.

2:54:31On my many site visits with the late Bob,

2:54:34Councillor Bob Bell, who also represented Council

2:54:36on the GRCA, our discussion included the advantages

2:54:40of an underpass and moving the spillway upstream.

2:54:43But the advantages would also include partial or complete

2:54:47removal of the spillway dam, including better flood control

2:54:50and increased flow due to more higher height under the bridge,

2:54:53lower risk to GJR infrastructure in the area,

2:54:57less water pressure from lower water levels

2:54:59resulting in long-term damage of water undermining

2:55:02the foundation and structure of the GO train pillars,

2:55:05a potentially shorter and less expensive bridge

2:55:07length due to increased flow capacity,

2:55:08less risk to the residential development and the flood fringe

2:55:11areas of the speed river, and in line with the GRCA goals

2:55:15to remove dams and naturalized valleys.

2:55:18We will be installing an underpass at the Speedveld Bridge,

2:55:21so let's not make it impossible to install one

2:55:23to the Mac-Tunnel Bridge.

2:55:24Now or in the future, as funding maybe becomes available.

2:55:27On the EA recommendations for the Ward to Downtown Bridge,

2:55:30I am extremely happy that the Ward to Downtown Bridge

2:55:33is recommended in the EA.

2:55:35Is the gateway to the extension of the downtown trail

2:55:37that will finally connect to existing and new neighborhoods

2:55:40developments like the Woods 2 and the Fusion GID,

2:55:43as advocated by GCAT and mentioned in the EA study.

2:55:47I have three recommendations.

2:55:49Please make it wide enough to accommodate cyclists

2:55:51and pedestrians passing each other,

2:55:52and two, please make its design worthy of future heritage

2:55:56designation due to its prominent location

2:55:59and not just a simplified bridge as mentioned in the study.

2:56:03We are approaching the 200-year anniversary,

2:56:05and it should be an opportunity for placemaking,

2:56:07as it will be crossed by residents of the existing

2:56:10and new neighborhoods on both sides of downtown,

2:56:12for practical and recreation purposes for decades to come.

2:56:17Number three, GJR is planning to rehabilitate portions

2:56:21of the rail crossing bridge in the near future.

2:56:23I agree with the recommendation to not combine the GJR

2:56:26and more bridges, but is it more efficient

2:56:31and cost-effective to coordinate installation

2:56:34of both bridges at the same time?

2:56:36I hope this recommendation is considered.

2:56:38Bob Bell's vision and GCAT's vision

2:56:40is a continuous active transportation network

2:56:42from the north end of the city at Riverside Park

2:56:44to and through our downtown to the JID,

2:56:47offering an enjoyable and safe trail-like experience

2:56:49with minimal on-street crossings of busy arterial roads

2:56:52by utilizing underpasses.

2:56:54I hope this is your and our city of Gualfusion

2:56:56for a more sustainable, equitable, and livable future.

2:57:02Thank you, Mike.

2:57:04Yeah, any questions to, okay,

2:57:07when we do Councillor Goller first?

2:57:09Thank you, Chair Chew.

2:57:10Thank you, Mr. Darman, for your presentation.

2:57:13I hear that the GCAT still feels

2:57:16that having the active transportation underpass

2:57:18into the bridge would be beneficial.

2:57:20One of the arguments that I've heard from staff

2:57:23is that it would have a negative impact on the mill pond

2:57:26because if we were to push it back or to take down the dam,

2:57:31do you have any comments about that?

2:57:32I think you said that you've spoken to some of the neighbors

2:57:34that live on Arthur Street about this.

2:57:36I never spoke to the neighbors,

2:57:38but in conversation with Councillor Bell at the time,

2:57:40we had spoken with the neighbors

2:57:41and they were, in his opinion, okay with actually,

2:57:46well, at least moving the dam upstream.

2:57:49I'm not sure about removing the mill pond completely.

2:57:51So removing the dam would change the picture of course,

2:57:58but from what I believe from another discussion

2:58:01with another neighbor recently,

2:58:04they didn't have any problem with that actually either.

2:58:06So, but that's what I'm hearing.

2:58:09Okay, and we are at this stage in the project

2:58:12where we have the EA at its completion.

2:58:15If we were to give direction for staff

2:58:19to reconsider the removal of the dam and the pushing it back,

2:58:24it would delay the build on this project.

2:58:29What are GCAT's concerns about maybe pushing back

2:58:33the McDonnell reconstruction for a couple of years?

2:58:37Well, it would obviously be a concern.

2:58:39I guess that will have to be decided,

2:58:41but yeah, it wouldn't be the greatest solution,

2:58:44but and I'm disappointed that would actually happen

2:58:47that we'd have to revisit the EA.

2:58:50I'd still like to know what the actual figures were actually,

2:58:53just to know actually what we're dealing with here.

2:58:56Okay, thank you.

2:58:57With regards to the active transportation bridge,

2:59:00you mentioned that you wanted it to be wider,

2:59:03not a simple structure.

2:59:04Do you have any examples of other river crossings in Guelph

2:59:08that you would like maybe to be closer to

2:59:12in shape and form?

2:59:15Well, ideally it would be as wide

2:59:16as the Norwich Street pedestrian bridge.

2:59:18That's really comfortable.

2:59:20I see neighbors stopping on the bridge all the time.

2:59:22I cross it almost every day.

2:59:24I'm not sure if it's feasible in this location,

2:59:26but as wide as possible would be the cast obviously.

2:59:29So no conflict between cyclists

2:59:31and people wanting to just stay there and talk.

2:59:34Perfect, okay.

2:59:35Thank you very much.

2:59:36Thank you.

2:59:37Thank you, Chair.

2:59:38Okay, Councillor Allt.

2:59:40Thank you very much, Chair Chew.

2:59:42Through you to Mr. Darman.

2:59:45Mr. Darman, I was wondering if you would be able

2:59:48to provide us with what you consider to be

2:59:50a reasonable estimate of costs for the proposal

2:59:53to memorialize Councillor Bell's vision.

2:59:57Sorry, could you repeat the cost of what?

2:59:59How much will it cost to memorialize

3:00:01Councillor Bell's vision?

3:00:05I have no idea.

3:00:06I mean, how would I?

3:00:07I'm struggling with this,

3:00:08but essentially I'm being asked to sign a blank check.

3:00:12And I'm reluctant to do that

3:00:14without a cost benefit analysis.

3:00:16And I reflect on some of the things my colleagues say

3:00:18about trail connectivity throughout the city,

3:00:20in particular Ward 4

3:00:22and into other areas of the city as well.

3:00:25And for me personally,

3:00:27I think we have a massive trail network

3:00:29that we need to address.

3:00:31And this cost is very particular to one area.

3:00:34So consequently, I guess the last question

3:00:36I have to ask you is,

3:00:37what do you prioritize?

3:00:39Improving the trail network that exists right now

3:00:42or continuing to develop a trail network

3:00:45that needs improvement long into the future?

3:00:49Well, obviously all of these priorities

3:00:51are very high on GCATs.

3:00:53They're a big concern for GCAT.

3:00:54I mean, we can't pick one over another,

3:00:56but this one in particular is right downtown.

3:00:59And particularly we're talking about an underpass,

3:01:01for instance, right?

3:01:02It eliminates that horrible crossing right now.

3:01:05Even if it's improved,

3:01:08I still think it's going to be something

3:01:10that's not ideal for anybody actually crossing there.

3:01:13So I can't balance between saying,

3:01:16hope this is better than that.

3:01:18And again, I'm just asking for what the actual real costs were.

3:01:22I'm not necessarily talking about Bob's vision

3:01:25for moving the dam upstream.

3:01:27What I'm asking now is,

3:01:29what would be the cost for just removing the dam

3:01:31and turning the river back into its natural state?

3:01:35What would that cost be?

3:01:36And that would actually give you enough room then possibly

3:01:39to have an underpass,

3:01:42just because the river would be much lower.

3:01:44We need clearance, in other words,

3:01:45underneath the bridge, headroom clearance.

3:01:47So removing the dam might give us that much.

3:01:51We may have to excavate a small amount,

3:01:52but I'm just wondering what that cost alone would be.

3:01:56And thank you very much.

3:01:57I'll ask staff similar questions related to that.

3:01:59I appreciate you bringing forward the ideal vision.

3:02:03I'm not certain that I feel it as strongly as you

3:02:06at this moment.

3:02:08I think in particular the Nart Street Bridge,

3:02:10which I use to actually go around that area

3:02:12and use it quite successfully right now.

3:02:14Yep, they're all important.

3:02:16I just had to bring this up

3:02:17because I felt it was something we've advocated for so long

3:02:20and Councillor Raebel championed so long

3:02:23that I just didn't want to give up at this point.

3:02:25I think it's worth investigating.

3:02:28Thanks.

3:02:29Okay, does anyone else have anything for Mike?

3:02:33Oh, okay.

3:02:33Thank you, Mike.

3:02:34Thank you.

3:02:36Could we first get a mover and seconder

3:02:38for the recommendations?

3:02:39Councillor Boussatel, then second by Mayor Guthrie.

3:02:43And yeah, who wants to start?

3:02:45Councillor Goller.

3:02:48Thank you, Chair Chew.

3:02:50I appreciate this for staff.

3:02:54First with regards to the war to downtown bridge,

3:02:59Mr. Darman spoke about the width of the bridge

3:03:03being hopefully wide enough to accommodate both

3:03:06bicycles and pedestrians.

3:03:09You know, I know you're early stages,

3:03:10but could this possibly be as wide

3:03:12as the Norwich Street Bridge?

3:03:15I believe that's at three meters wide to allow for for.

3:03:24Through the chair to Councillor Goller.

3:03:26So the original or the preliminary concept shows the bridge

3:03:30closer to three and a half, 3.7 meters wide at this time,

3:03:33subject to detailed design and any restrictions

3:03:35and constraints we may run into, but that's the goal.

3:03:38Okay, okay.

3:03:39That's reassuring to know that it would not be

3:03:42a pedestrian bridge like the one at Riverside Park,

3:03:45but it would be a wide bridge.

3:03:46Yeah, thank you for that.

3:03:48With regards to the active transportation and their pass,

3:03:51I understand that the option that was considered

3:03:54as part of the EA looked at removing the dam

3:03:57and replacing another dam farther up.

3:04:00What would be the cost of removing the dam

3:04:03and not replacing it?

3:04:04So allowing the mill pond to go back to be a creek

3:04:09or a river instead of a pond.

3:04:14Through you chair to Councillor Goller,

3:04:17we have an estimate in the report of $2 million

3:04:21for hard construction costs to remove the dam alone.

3:04:24That doesn't factor in additional costs,

3:04:26the additional assessment of the Metrolinx Bridge

3:04:29that would need to go into that,

3:04:31additional assessment of the natural heritage

3:04:33or natural heritage of the area,

3:04:37additional costs that would come with having to dredge

3:04:40out the river, things like that,

3:04:42that cost is solely based on the dam itself.

3:04:45So there is potential that if we were to go down this route,

3:04:47the cost would balloon significantly

3:04:49as many of those additional costs

3:04:51are unknown at this point in time.

3:04:53Okay, thank you for that.

3:04:54But as a base to $2.5 million to just remove the dam.

3:04:59And in terms of process, we are here today,

3:05:02if this council were to give direction to go through

3:05:06with the active transportation underpass, removing the dam,

3:05:10what would that mean for the timelines of this project?

3:05:16Through you chair to Councillor Goller.

3:05:17So yeah, certainly with respect to timelines

3:05:20in the project, we're moving forward

3:05:22as part of an overall downtown program.

3:05:23So we have capital implementation plan that's approved.

3:05:26We've got a sequence of events.

3:05:27We've got other bridges and other construction works planned

3:05:30throughout the city's capital forecast

3:05:32that are optimized and sequenced in an order.

3:05:34And so when you think about traffic control

3:05:36and management, when you think about state of good repair

3:05:39and where the highest risks are on the timelines

3:05:41that we have to work within, everything is optimized already.

3:05:45So any delays, I think have a significant risk

3:05:48to the city with respect to things like,

3:05:52maybe we would have to close the Macdonald Bridge,

3:05:54for example, if the structural integrity continued

3:05:56to degrade before we could get to it.

3:05:58So I think there's a number of factors like that

3:06:01that would weigh into a decision.

3:06:02Certainly staff would not recommend any sort of deferral.

3:06:05Okay, okay.

3:06:06And with approval of the staff recommendation

3:06:10at the end of this month,

3:06:12when would we see the Macdonald Bridge be replaced

3:06:17and widened and the pedestrian bridge be built?

3:06:21So through you, Chair, to Councillor Goller,

3:06:26the idea is that the Macdonald project

3:06:28in terms of sort of the entirety of the Macdonald stretch

3:06:31will start construction in 2028.

3:06:34So the design work, the place making work

3:06:36would happen over the next two or so years.

3:06:39And then the sequence of exactly how we construct Macdonald

3:06:42from sort of the far west end to the far east end

3:06:45is still sort of to be determined

3:06:47as we go through the detailed design.

3:06:50And how about the active transportation

3:06:52war to downtown bridge?

3:06:53What is the time mean on that?

3:06:56So through you, Chair, to Councillor Goller,

3:06:59same thing in terms of when we sort of figure

3:07:01out the right sequence of pieces for the overall network,

3:07:04it may be near the front end, it may be near the back end,

3:07:07but it would be sort of no sooner than 2028

3:07:10and certainly somewhere in the two to three year range

3:07:13from there, I would think.

3:07:14Okay, thank you.

3:07:16Thank you, Chair Chew.

3:07:18Okay, and then we have Councillor Kerron.

3:07:26You're muted.

3:07:27Yeah, I'm muted.

3:07:30Thank you, and thank you, staff.

3:07:31And certainly, I mean, this has been a huge project.

3:07:34It's part of an even larger project.

3:07:36So I wanna acknowledge all the work that's been done here.

3:07:40My questions are much more specific,

3:07:42so I don't wanna lose the forest for the trees,

3:07:46which is often inevitable in large projects like this.

3:07:50But I do wanna totally supportive of replacement

3:07:53of McDonnell Bridge, that's fine.

3:07:54When it comes to the spillway, the sluiceway and the dam,

3:07:58I don't even wanna entertain what the scope

3:08:00of changing that would be.

3:08:02I agree with the recommendations there.

3:08:05The delegate mentioned the original configuration

3:08:07of the river.

3:08:09Well, the original configuration of the river

3:08:11would have been back to the 1828 configuration

3:08:15because the Canada Company Mill,

3:08:17which predated the Allen's Mill, built the mill pond.

3:08:20And there was already a drop in the river's configuration,

3:08:25which is exactly why Galt chose that site,

3:08:27is because it could power a mill.

3:08:29So we were completely forested at the time.

3:08:32I mean, the changes since 1828 are just too enormous

3:08:35to even engineer a renaturalization

3:08:39through an urban area of that magnitude.

3:08:41So I don't think that that's even something

3:08:43that I would entertain.

3:08:45So moving on then, since the only real aspect

3:08:49of the project that's causing me some reflection

3:08:53and concern is the act of transportation link

3:08:56on the south side of the McDonnell Bridge,

3:09:00the word to downtown versus the Allen's Bridge.

3:09:03So my understanding, and correct me if I'm wrong,

3:09:05but the viaduct, the Metrolinx, the train bridge

3:09:10is designated under the Ontario Heritage Act under part three.

3:09:16So has Metrolinx fully, like they have been,

3:09:22they have conducted their own heritage impact assessment

3:09:25or will they be conducting

3:09:27their own heritage impact assessment?

3:09:30And I know this question is preference on my,

3:09:34perhaps misunderstanding of the link between

3:09:38a cultural heritage evaluation report,

3:09:41which has been completed 160 pages, great work,

3:09:44lots of great pictures and really thorough research

3:09:49and a heritage impact assessment.

3:09:51Because my understanding from the cultural heritage

3:09:54evaluation report and from the requirements of this project

3:10:00is that a heritage impact assessment is required

3:10:05as part of the EA before we make any decisions

3:10:11on demolition or replacement.

3:10:13And I just wonder if you could,

3:10:14I know there's been emails back and forth,

3:10:16but can you go through that with me?

3:10:18Because I believe it's a requirement

3:10:20and I wanna make sure that I'm fully informed.

3:10:23Like I think an HIA, not a C-H-E-R

3:10:31is part of the EA checklist.

3:10:34Through the chair, to the councillor.

3:10:40Staffer of the opinion that the cultural heritage

3:10:44evaluation report satisfies the requirement of the EA.

3:10:48However, we do intend to conduct

3:10:53a heritage impact assessment during detailed design.

3:10:57A cultural heritage evaluation report is intended

3:11:00to evaluate the cultural heritage value of a structure.

3:11:05A heritage impact assessment is

3:11:07intended to determine the possible negative impacts

3:11:14to a cultural heritage resource

3:11:15as well as recommend mitigation strategies.

3:11:20So I was in contact with staff at Metrolinx this morning

3:11:25to discuss a heritage impact assessment

3:11:28to ensure that there are no negative impacts

3:11:30to the MacDenell viaduct,

3:11:33which you are correct is designated under part three

3:11:35of the Ontario Heritage Act.

3:11:37Though it is considered a provincial heritage property,

3:11:41not a provincial heritage property

3:11:44of provincial significance,

3:11:46which I know I may be getting into the weeds here.

3:11:50But I think this answers your question.

3:11:53Yes, we intend to conduct a heritage impact assessment

3:11:57as part of detailed design.

3:12:00Okay, and I appreciate that answer,

3:12:03but I know that, I mean, it's always been my,

3:12:06my understanding that things could have changed,

3:12:07but under the municipal heritage bridges assessment checklist

3:12:14that was in 2013, it's part of the engineers association,

3:12:19municipal engineers association,

3:12:21that the heritage impact assessment is on the EA checklist.

3:12:27And in our own cultural heritage evaluation report,

3:12:31I don't have the exact page number,

3:12:33but it's in part C,

3:12:34it's part of the environmental assessment checklist.

3:12:38It says under a column, yes,

3:12:42it says heritage impact assessment, yes,

3:12:46as a requirement of the EA.

3:12:49So again, what part am I missing?

3:12:53Is that's not a requirement, that's just a guideline.

3:12:56Am I incorrect in my knowledge

3:12:59of what a municipal class ES assessment,

3:13:02a environmental assessment is specifically

3:13:04for heritage bridges,

3:13:05because I know it's different for heritage bridges

3:13:07than it is for other types of EAs.

3:13:10I just wanna make sure that we're not,

3:13:12we're checking all the boxes and I haven't missed anything.

3:13:16Yeah, through the chair to councillor Caron,

3:13:18certainly staff are confident

3:13:19that we're following good due process,

3:13:21but why don't we take this away from this meeting?

3:13:24We'll prepare a memo for you that sort of outlines

3:13:27the steps that we're taking here,

3:13:28and we can report that back

3:13:29before council at the end of the month.

3:13:32Yeah, that would be great, Mr. Gaiman, thank you very much,

3:13:34because I just, I don't wanna move forward

3:13:36with voting on anything if I'm not 100% sure

3:13:39that we've checked all those boxes,

3:13:41and I'm going on historical knowledge,

3:13:45not maybe the most up-to-date knowledge

3:13:48on what is required.

3:13:52The other part of that is that we are talking

3:13:57about a commemoration,

3:14:01and we're making a decision here tonight about demolition

3:14:06without knowing what that commemoration,

3:14:09I know that site design is still something that's to come.

3:14:13Wondering, I know when we did a site visit,

3:14:15I did ask if there's any examples that you might have

3:14:18of commemorative bridges or

3:14:21restorations and overlooks that might give us

3:14:29a better visual of what we're talking about here.

3:14:32I think, and I did say that the Norwich Bridge

3:14:36rehabilitation is perhaps not our best example

3:14:40of heritage restoration or commemoration,

3:14:46but it is well engineered,

3:14:48and we wanna make sure that the public

3:14:51and the community understand that anything

3:14:53that we do moving forward is truly appropriate

3:15:00for the Allens Bridge restoration.

3:15:03So can you give me any examples that we could look to

3:15:06for what you envision as appropriate commemoration?

3:15:12Councillor Kerron, could this be part of the memo

3:15:14for end of the month?

3:15:15Is that be okay?

3:15:16If staffed, just take that away for then.

3:15:20Sure, absolutely.

3:15:24I think that's all my questions for now.

3:15:26Okay, Terry did have a follow up for you.

3:15:30Yeah, sorry, thank you Chair Chew.

3:15:32Just with respect to what's being asked for,

3:15:35certainly ultimately that is the thing

3:15:37staff can certainly provide.

3:15:38It's just that at this stage in an EA process,

3:15:41we don't have a number of those types of

3:15:46samples ready to go so that we could offer

3:15:48that level of certainty for you

3:15:50in terms of what's envisioned,

3:15:51but that is the exact reason why we have

3:15:53sort of recommendation three in the staff report

3:15:55so that there's assurance to council

3:15:57that that work will be done

3:15:58and that those public processes will occur in the future

3:16:01around the place making to make sure

3:16:03that we're taking proper care in the area there.

3:16:07Okay, and then finally, if I could,

3:16:09one more question was just about the cost.

3:16:12So 1.9 million to rehabilitate, restore Allens Bridge

3:16:18and 740,000 K to remove it is what I saw in the report.

3:16:23So about a $1.1 million difference.

3:16:26The ward to downtown bridge as part

3:16:28of the community building fund was originally $6 million

3:16:31and then the latest memo we received,

3:16:34it was $3.3 million.

3:16:36How did it get down?

3:16:38How did it get, how did we get a half price discount on that?

3:16:43Is it just that the design scope has changed?

3:16:49I'm trying to compare the option of rehabilitating

3:16:52Allens Bridge to the ward to downtown bridge

3:16:54and I just really need accurate costs

3:16:56in order to be able to compare option A and option B.

3:17:02Through you the chair, the new version

3:17:05of the ward to downtown bridge is significantly simplified

3:17:08compared to other bridges that have been done in the fast.

3:17:11We're using a very simple structure

3:17:13that creates a much easier construction method

3:17:17for the new bridge and reduces the amount

3:17:20of complexities in the design itself.

3:17:25So the intention is that this bridge will be much easier

3:17:30to build, have much less impact on the area around it

3:17:33and therefore comes in at a much lower cost.

3:17:37Okay, and so thank you for that.

3:17:40That makes sense and always good to get best value

3:17:45out of our projects.

3:17:47I did see some renderings of what that might look like

3:17:51and we're talking a lot about placemaking.

3:17:55I don't see any placemaking in the simplified design.

3:17:58So is that something that we would add on?

3:18:01Like is that icing on the cake

3:18:03that you need council direction for?

3:18:05If we were to make it a more in a style that is wider

3:18:11and can add placemaking elements, landscape elements,

3:18:15that's something that you would need direction

3:18:17from council to do.

3:18:23Through the chair to councillor Caron,

3:18:26I do think through the placemaking recommendation,

3:18:28there will be a number of different public touch points

3:18:31as we work through the area.

3:18:33And then through that process,

3:18:35we certainly do intend to come back to council

3:18:37with the commemorative and placemaking elements

3:18:39overall for the area.

3:18:40So the vision right now would be that anything related

3:18:43to the bridge would be part of that process.

3:18:47So I hope that gives you the certainty

3:18:48that you're looking for

3:18:49that that would be a future council touch point.

3:18:53And a future council budget decision?

3:18:59Through the chair to councillor Caron,

3:19:00certainly anything that came out of the design

3:19:02and placemaking that's not contemplated

3:19:05to within the existing capital budget forecasts

3:19:07that will come through the mayor's budget later this year

3:19:10would be an adjustment in a future budget.

3:19:12Okay, thanks.

3:19:14That's all, Mr. Chair.

3:19:16Okay, thank you.

3:19:17Councillor Lucid-Till.

3:19:20Thank you.

3:19:21And through the chairs, chair to staff,

3:19:25I just, I have some questions of clarification

3:19:27and thank you for the opportunity to come on site

3:19:29for the site version visit.

3:19:31So the first one is the Allens Bridge

3:19:33and I really struggled when I was there on site,

3:19:36building a new pedestrian bridge versus the Allens Bridge.

3:19:40And as councillor Caron was saying,

3:19:43the capital cost to rehabilitate and so on,

3:19:47are there other considerations around keeping the Allens

3:19:51versus building the new pedestrian bridge?

3:19:53And then I have another question.

3:19:59Through you, through you the chair.

3:20:03The Allens Bridge is considered to be less optimal

3:20:06for the transportation network in general.

3:20:09The word to downtown bridge is intended to fill in the gap

3:20:13on the trail between downtown and the GIT lands

3:20:15to create that continuous off-road active transportation

3:20:19corridor that connects that whole area

3:20:22without having to be in conflict with vehicles.

3:20:27The Allens Bridge in its current location

3:20:31has very minimal public right of way available

3:20:35on the east side of the bridge.

3:20:37So it connects into a narrow sidewalk

3:20:40as we go through the complexities

3:20:41of the Elizabeth Arthur-McDonnell intersection.

3:20:45So based on the route that active transportation users

3:20:49can take, it is a less optimal bridge

3:20:52in comparison to the word to downtown bridge

3:20:55on top of the other factors.

3:20:59Thank you.

3:20:59And through the chair, just another clarification.

3:21:01During the presentation I heard,

3:21:04I thought it was the sluiceway and spillway alternatives.

3:21:08This is the removal and build a new dam.

3:21:10I thought I heard a cost of 15 million.

3:21:13Is that 15 million to remove the dam

3:21:17and build this active transportation underpass?

3:21:21Like I missed the 15 million.

3:21:25Through you the chair, the $15 million

3:21:27was an estimate for moving the dam.

3:21:31So it would include removal of the dam

3:21:33and then building the new waterfall feature

3:21:35for their upstream.

3:21:36However, we do wanna make sure that it's known

3:21:39that that is only the core construction costs.

3:21:44Doesn't include those other factors mentioned earlier,

3:21:46permitting and other investigations.

3:21:49And some aspects like that that haven't been fully investigated

3:21:53at this point in the EA process

3:21:56and would become a detailed design exercise.

3:22:00Thank you.

3:22:01It sounds like doing renovations at home.

3:22:02Just keep the money flowing, right?

3:22:05And so I just wanted to kind of echo Councillor Caron's comments

3:22:09on the structural feasibility.

3:22:11I will be supporting the staff's recommendations,

3:22:13rehabilitate the sluiceway and the spillway.

3:22:16And I think I asked that at the site meeting as well.

3:22:19So thank you to staff for this.

3:22:23Okay, Councillor.

3:22:26Alt.

3:22:28Alt, thank you.

3:22:29Thank you, Chair Chew, to staff.

3:22:34I think I'll just start off where I left off with Mr. Darman.

3:22:38I'd heard an estimate of approximately $2 million

3:22:41coming out for what he has proposed.

3:22:43I assume that that is the bare minimum

3:22:45or am I incorrect on that?

3:22:52Through you, Chair, yes.

3:22:53$2 million was the bare minimum estimated cost

3:22:57for simply the removal of the dam.

3:22:59Again, not including all of those other factors

3:23:03that were listed, that would just be the core construction cost

3:23:06of actually removing the concrete in the way,

3:23:09not including anything else.

3:23:12So I'll ask a naive question because I'm naive.

3:23:15That $2 million, would that be in one budget cycle?

3:23:21Is anybody able to answer that?

3:23:26Through you, the Chair, yes.

3:23:27That would be in one budget cycle.

3:23:29That would be in the total budget of the project.

3:23:33So that's aligned in 2028 at this point in time.

3:23:35That would be a fairly significant number

3:23:37than from the mayor's budget.

3:23:38Thank you.

3:23:39With regards to Metrolinx, with the proposed,

3:23:45suppose a dam removal, do we need to seek Metrolinx approval

3:23:51because there may be structural concerns there

3:23:54and would that delay anything?

3:23:57Through you, the Chair, yes.

3:23:59Metrolinx would need to be contacted

3:24:01and obtain a Metrolinx work permit

3:24:03as we would be working directly beneath their bridge.

3:24:07They have rights to the area because

3:24:08of the placement of the footings of their bridge.

3:24:12So we would need to ensure that we were not impacting

3:24:15their bridge in any negative way,

3:24:17which takes us through the full permitting process,

3:24:20which can have a drawn out timeline.

3:24:24We can't estimate it right at this point in time,

3:24:26but we have taken over a year

3:24:29to receive a Metrolinx permit in the past.

3:24:31And thank you.

3:24:32I was wondering whether you could estimate the time or not,

3:24:34actually, so you appreciate that.

3:24:36Switching gears, reference was made, I believe,

3:24:39by Mr. Mallon that a great deal of truck traffic

3:24:42from Elizabeth Street uses the Macdonald Street Bridge.

3:24:47That peaked for me an issue that most of the heavy industry,

3:24:51I believe, is approximately in the Victoria York area.

3:24:55And the question becomes, why wouldn't York Road

3:24:59be an alternative and more appropriate access way

3:25:02for that heavy truck transit?

3:25:10Through the chair to Councillor,

3:25:12I'll also couple of points with respect

3:25:14to the city's transportation master plan

3:25:16and the goods movement strategy

3:25:18that was developed through that plan

3:25:19certainly has this area as a key goods movement corridor

3:25:24for the city.

3:25:24And so that will remain the same.

3:25:25You also see things with respect to emergency services,

3:25:27transit, those types of vehicles moving through the area.

3:25:29So the intersection designs and things that come with

3:25:33this type of infrastructure renewal are all part of it.

3:25:35They're just not part of the EA scope,

3:25:37but there's certainly that will be part of detailed design

3:25:40and work on both sides of the bridge.

3:25:41Okay, thank you very much.

3:25:42The next are heritage questions, I believe.

3:25:46The first one that I was made aware of by individuals,

3:25:49the Heritage Advisory Committee had two votes

3:25:51on Allen's Bridge.

3:25:52One was a negative vote and one was a positive vote,

3:25:55both with the similar outcome.

3:25:57And this perplexed me as to why a motion would have come

3:26:01forward that was in the negative,

3:26:02and then another motion would come forward

3:26:04in the positive, both of which tied.

3:26:06And I think that I wouldn't mind some commentary

3:26:10on the designation of Allen's Bridge

3:26:12and just what happened there.

3:26:19Through the chair to Councillor Allt.

3:26:24It is not my recollection that there was a negative vote

3:26:28on Allen's Bridge.

3:26:29I'm looking at the minutes from our April

3:26:32Heritage Advisory Committee meeting.

3:26:37Though the cultural heritage evaluation report determined

3:26:41that the bridge met the criteria for designation,

3:26:45it was not staff's recommendation

3:26:48to the Heritage Committee that the bridge be designated.

3:26:53And as I said during the presentation,

3:26:55that's mostly because in order for the bridge to be usable,

3:26:59it would need to be completely deconstructed.

3:27:01And I do not believe that replication

3:27:05is a valid means of conservation.

3:27:09So that's why staff are recommending.

3:27:11And I believe I won't speak for the Heritage Advisory Committee,

3:27:15but I'm looking at their motion right now.

3:27:19They advised that the bridge be retained,

3:27:23that the geographic location of the existing bridge

3:27:25is important, and that the bridge not be moved.

3:27:30But they did not recommend designation either.

3:27:34And thank you.

3:27:36As it turned out, Councillor Downer corrected me.

3:27:37I was wrong.

3:27:38That was the wrong motion.

3:27:39But it does, at least for the record,

3:27:41point out that the Heritage Committee did entertain this.

3:27:44They had a particular perspective,

3:27:46and they only provided advice to council.

3:27:48Is that correct?

3:27:52Through the chair.

3:27:54They provided advice to council,

3:27:55but staff can also consider their advice.

3:27:58Yeah, thank you.

3:28:00Now, there are one or two last things.

3:28:03And this one again is as much for public consumption

3:28:06as anything.

3:28:08Why commemorate the fifth bridge that's there?

3:28:12What is it that we're commemorating?

3:28:14The area that was there, the bridge that was there,

3:28:17or recollections of the past?

3:28:19I'm struggling with this,

3:28:21because I'm trying to figure out

3:28:22what we're going to do with any of the remaining pieces.

3:28:24You'd mentioned a viewing platform,

3:28:26but I'm not certain what people are going to view.

3:28:31Through the chair, to the councillor.

3:28:32Thank you for this question.

3:28:34We will look towards developing

3:28:37a comprehensive commemoration strategy

3:28:39for the area and its entirety.

3:28:42As I mentioned before,

3:28:43this area is actually steeped in the history of this city.

3:28:48As you know, it was just meters away

3:28:50that John Galt and his axmen cut down

3:28:54the sugar maple, founding the city.

3:28:57I see this as an opportunity to tell

3:29:00a broader story of this area.

3:29:02We'll be using components of the bridge

3:29:05that currently exists,

3:29:06because there is heritage value,

3:29:08especially in the railings from the 1930s.

3:29:10They're really the defining architectural feature

3:29:12of this bridge.

3:29:14But I hope that we'll be able to tell the history,

3:29:18not just starting in 1827,

3:29:20mind you, the history from before then,

3:29:23as well as the succession of bridges and industry

3:29:26that have been located in this area.

3:29:29Thank you very much.

3:29:32Okay, councillor Keaton.

3:29:37Thank you, through you, Mr. Chair.

3:29:40So I've heard within the memos and spoken in council

3:29:43that the cost for the ward to downtown pedestrian bridge

3:29:48would be about 3.3 million.

3:29:51And I wasn't around in 2012 when that was voted on,

3:29:59was because for me right now,

3:30:02with the widening of the bridge that staff are recommending

3:30:07and the addition of the pedestrian

3:30:09and the active transportation on the north side,

3:30:14it feels redundant to me.

3:30:16It feels like we're spending 3.3 million for 60 meters

3:30:21at the furthest eastern distance for people to walk there

3:30:27rather than walk on the new widened bridge.

3:30:31And so for me, I'm trying to think of priorities,

3:30:36not that that wouldn't be nice eventually,

3:30:38but we have a lot of things that we're trying to get done.

3:30:44So have there been any studies on the crossings of the bridge

3:30:52and how many people cross the bridge like we would do

3:30:55for kind of other crossing warrants?

3:31:02Through the chair to councillor Keaton.

3:31:04So yeah, this is a slightly different circumstance

3:31:06with respect to how we would look at warrants

3:31:10throughout the city and other areas

3:31:12in terms of say pedestrian crossings of a roadway

3:31:14or a mid block crossing,

3:31:15things like that that we've discussed at council in the past

3:31:18with respect to the direction here.

3:31:20So because we have council direction

3:31:22through the downtown secondary plan,

3:31:24the trail master plan, the transportation master plan,

3:31:26that's why this bridge is part of this EA in the first place.

3:31:31And so we didn't do it based on a traditional warrant study

3:31:34or some of the other types of engineering studies

3:31:36we've done in other circumstances.

3:31:38At the same time with a river crossing,

3:31:41what we're seeing here with respect to DJR

3:31:43and the existing infrastructure is a safety concern

3:31:46from a public perspective as well

3:31:47that will be addressed through this.

3:31:49So I think with the past policy and council direction

3:31:52and sort of the safety concerns that we have,

3:31:54that's the reason why the bridge is recommended here.

3:31:58Thank you.

3:31:59Through the chair, is there any other way

3:32:01to address the safety issues

3:32:02that doesn't cost 3.3 million?

3:32:06Through the chair, we have spoke with DJR

3:32:09with respect to options in the past

3:32:10and certainly they've continued to look at that.

3:32:13They've improved signage,

3:32:13they've looked at other deterrents

3:32:15but I think that they've exhausted the options

3:32:19that they have to make any changes to their existing bridge

3:32:23while they continue to maintain

3:32:24the function of their railway.

3:32:29Thank you.

3:32:31So I understand that it is part of the master plan

3:32:33but we've got lots of other things on the master plan

3:32:35that we've pushed off in terms of timing.

3:32:37So for me, it's not overall value,

3:32:40it's more about priority and other things

3:32:42that we have on that plan.

3:32:44Like for example, we've got bike lanes,

3:32:48protected bike lanes on Grange Road

3:32:51and that's within 10 years.

3:32:53And I hear a lot about safety concerns

3:32:56from people in Ward 1.

3:32:57We've got an entire area in Ward 1 in City View South

3:33:01that doesn't have any sidewalks

3:33:03and people who are wheelchair users

3:33:05have to use mobile transit to get down from the hill

3:33:08and there's no crossing over the railway there.

3:33:12So I'm struggling with the cost and the timing

3:33:18versus the priority and other projects

3:33:22that we could be working on.

3:33:25Can you comment on that?

3:33:29Through the chair to Councillor Caden.

3:33:31Yes, certainly staff understand the need

3:33:32to balance multiple priorities

3:33:34and our capital forecast continues to change

3:33:36and evolve to adapt to things like affordability pressures.

3:33:39And so that I can certainly understand

3:33:42with respect to what's in front of Council,

3:33:44this is an environmental assessment decision

3:33:46and so the environmental assessment

3:33:47has to treat the entire solution as a whole,

3:33:49which is why it's being presented to you

3:33:51in the way that it's being presented.

3:33:53It's currently forecast in the future capital budget,

3:33:57I believe in 2028.

3:33:58And again, we'll review that each year as we get closer.

3:34:04Thank you to the chair.

3:34:05So for the most part, I'm in agreement

3:34:08with all of the choices you've made aside from that one.

3:34:10Is there no way to break it out

3:34:11or do I have to vote against the whole thing

3:34:14if I disagree with one item?

3:34:15Because it sounds like there's some people

3:34:17who are interested in the Allen's Bridge versus I think,

3:34:20is there any way to vote on this more piecemeal?

3:34:26Councillor Caden, we can separate the motions

3:34:29if that makes it easier for you.

3:34:33Are there recommendations?

3:34:34Yeah, currently there's just like one,

3:34:38except the proposal and they're not broken down per item.

3:34:42Is there a way to have the motion written out

3:34:44so that there were more options to vote on?

3:34:48Could I just ask,

3:34:51is there, do you have exception to a particular clause

3:34:56in any of the recommendations or?

3:34:59So the whole parcel is considered in motion number one, right?

3:35:05So there's no way for me to vote

3:35:07against the pedestrian bridge, for example.

3:35:10There's no way for someone to vote for restoring Allen's

3:35:14pedestrian bridge.

3:35:15So those are the two pieces that I'm hearing

3:35:18from other counselors that have more questions

3:35:25or potentially concerns.

3:35:26So I was wondering if there was a way to have those two

3:35:29broken out to be voted on separately?

3:35:32If you want, you could put amendment,

3:35:37it kind of changed the language

3:35:40if it's in recommendation one

3:35:42that you have a concern with, particularly,

3:35:45I think an amendment would probably be best

3:35:51or you could do it at the end of the month.

3:35:52That's for Mayor Guthrie's suggestion.

3:35:59Or could we, would you be interested

3:36:02if we did a memo of some sorts, Terry?

3:36:08Yeah, the chair to counsel, okay.

3:36:09And I think I know, I understand what you're getting at.

3:36:12I think the challenge is the EA has an ultimate solution

3:36:15and that is what the EA process is based on.

3:36:17I think if we were sent back to the drawing board,

3:36:19for example, for a different solution,

3:36:22either in this instance or in the other instances,

3:36:24like the underpass idea that's been discussed,

3:36:27what we're effectively doing is delaying the entire EA.

3:36:30And so we have to come to solution with the EA

3:36:33as an entire outcome based on the opportunity statement

3:36:38and that's all sort of regulatory based.

3:36:39And so that's a long answer.

3:36:41I think the short answer is no to your question.

3:36:45And maybe I have a question that could maybe clarify something.

3:36:49Could you make some of these determinations

3:36:52during the detailed design of the EA?

3:36:55Like you guys do that all the time, right?

3:36:57To chair, so certainly after the EA

3:37:00selects the recommended solutions

3:37:02and the notice of completion is done,

3:37:04then we move into detailed design for the individual pieces

3:37:07and figure out how to best fit them

3:37:08in terms of actual construction and construction timing.

3:37:12And those are the parts that are currently budgeted for 2028

3:37:15may be adjusted as the detailed design

3:37:18and sequencing and phasing comes together.

3:37:20And is there a way in which you could keep council informed

3:37:25when we're at that point, maybe inform court memo, email?

3:37:30Yes, certainly through you chair,

3:37:32to the downtown infrastructure new program overall

3:37:35has a number of communicative touch points throughout.

3:37:38Council can, we welcome any questions

3:37:40as we get closer and closer.

3:37:41There'll be public touch points with the designs

3:37:44as we bring them forward public open houses,

3:37:47that type of thing for the infrastructure

3:37:49that we're debating today.

3:37:51And so there's a number of opportunities for that discussion.

3:37:54And then again, each budget cycle, that opportunity arises.

3:37:58Okay, and I guess just my comment,

3:38:00there's still a long way away, away's the way.

3:38:04And there are a lot of opportunities

3:38:05or touch points for public engagement.

3:38:08So I'm just wondering, Councillor Kain,

3:38:10would that satisfy some of your contemplation?

3:38:16So what I'm hearing is, and correct me if I'm wrong,

3:38:21I can't pull out anything from the motion.

3:38:26So I have to either vote for all of it or none of it.

3:38:32Like I'm just, I think the confusion is if you're,

3:38:36if you have any exception to the EA itself,

3:38:38because if you have an exception to the EA,

3:38:41that encompasses a lot of items.

3:38:43But if it's just, number two and number three,

3:38:47the salvage retain and the engagement with the arts community,

3:38:51that's easily separated, separable for us here.

3:38:56Does that make sense?

3:38:58Yeah, my opposition is to the 3.3 million

3:39:03for the pedestrian bridge, because I feel it's redundant

3:39:07because we're gonna be having pedestrian options

3:39:10on the other side.

3:39:10And I feel that money could be used in other projects

3:39:14that I think are a higher priority given that.

3:39:16So my advice, yeah, I hear you.

3:39:19And I think my advice would be,

3:39:20you could vote against the EA recommendation

3:39:23because that's a pretty big component.

3:39:24I vote against everything to vote against

3:39:26one small part of it.

3:39:28Well, you could vote against recommendation one

3:39:31and then phone in favor of two and three.

3:39:35Like we could separate those out for you.

3:39:38Yeah, it just, it feels heavy handed

3:39:45for something that has so many parts

3:39:48to not be able to piecemeal them.

3:39:54Yeah, Terry, through the chair and to Council Kate.

3:39:57And again, I think what I understand you're trying to get at

3:40:00is timing of other priorities

3:40:02versus the downtown board pedestrian bridge.

3:40:05And again, I think the opportunity to discuss the timing

3:40:08for that will continue to arise

3:40:10as we go through detailed design,

3:40:11as we go through other council touchpoints on place making

3:40:14as we go through budget.

3:40:15And so the EA is sort of the solution

3:40:18to the problem on opportunity statement,

3:40:20but the timing for all of the individual

3:40:22infrastructure works is still to come.

3:40:25And so I think there are touchpoints for that opportunity

3:40:28in the future, if that makes sense.

3:40:31Okay, great.

3:40:32Thank you.

3:40:34Thank you, is there any, oh, Councillor All.

3:40:36Thank you.

3:40:37I was going to ask that this, they be separated out

3:40:40as you suggested, but I do have concerns with number two.

3:40:44Similarly, are we free to make comments yet?

3:40:47Because there might be other questions.

3:40:48Yeah, why don't we separate them out

3:40:50and then we can go to comments.

3:40:52Okay, thank you.

3:40:53Thank you very much.

3:40:54I'm going to vote in favor of number one and number three.

3:40:57Number two, because it uses the words salvage

3:41:02and conserve in the same sentence,

3:41:04which I find to be somewhat paradoxical.

3:41:06I cannot support number two.

3:41:09My inclination is to preserve the bridge if at all possible.

3:41:14And like Councillor Caton,

3:41:16I think that there is some concern for elements

3:41:20of what is being proposed here

3:41:22that can't be pulled out at this particular time,

3:41:26but nonetheless do bear scrutiny and consideration

3:41:29at a later date by Council.

3:41:33Councillor Goller.

3:41:35Do you chair just a question of clarification?

3:41:39Just what I'm hearing from my colleagues.

3:41:41If we were to vote in favor of number one,

3:41:43which includes removing the historic bridge,

3:41:47but not voting favor of number two,

3:41:49would that mean that we would just get rid of

3:41:52all of the structure and throw everything away

3:41:55if we don't approve number two?

3:42:01Through the chair, the Councillor Goller.

3:42:07That would be my interpretation is that the conclusion

3:42:11of the EA would recommend that outcome.

3:42:13The work would be to remove it

3:42:14and the additional place making

3:42:16would not be directed for staff to do.

3:42:19Okay, thank you very much.

3:42:21I will be supporting all of the staff recommendations.

3:42:25I do believe that we should commemorate the historic bridge

3:42:29and remember what was there.

3:42:33And I'm still very much interested

3:42:35in the possibility of the active transportation underpass.

3:42:38So between now and the end of the month,

3:42:39I will be working with my council colleagues

3:42:41to see if there are seven of us who are in favor

3:42:45of making that change

3:42:47and putting in the active transportation connection.

3:42:50But I've heard that there are significant concerns.

3:42:52So we may not have the numbers to move

3:42:56that at the end of the month.

3:42:58Thank you.

3:42:59Point of personal privilege, Mr. Chair,

3:43:01because of the statement from staff that was made,

3:43:04I will regrettably have to vote against all of it.

3:43:08It is not clear within the motion

3:43:09that this is saying that we are demolishing anything,

3:43:12but because of the interpretation,

3:43:15I must vote against the demolition of that bridge.

3:43:20I just have to ask,

3:43:21do you have a possible amendment to make to make it?

3:43:24My amendment would be in direct contradiction to the motion.

3:43:27Okay, that's fine.

3:43:29Councillor Gibson.

3:43:33Hi, thank you through Chair Chew.

3:43:36Been listening to the whole conversation.

3:43:38I just wanted to maybe just reiterate

3:43:41what council has been told by staff

3:43:43that this is an EA solutions planning process.

3:43:47It's a class EA, it's a necessary step

3:43:50to create the solution for the whole area.

3:43:52I know there's elements that people aren't liking

3:43:54or people are wondering if it's worthwhile spending money

3:43:57along those timelines.

3:43:59Those are budget conversations

3:44:01that I think staff have been very clear on.

3:44:03So if there's a bridge aspect

3:44:04or a piece of this project that you don't want to support,

3:44:09you can change that in the prioritization of the budget.

3:44:12You can delay that in the budget.

3:44:14You can do those conversations in another year,

3:44:17but to get the process started

3:44:19on the planning of this project,

3:44:20we do need to submit this EA,

3:44:22or at least notice a completion for the EA,

3:44:25so that we have the solution set,

3:44:27then we can start tackling it one piece at a time.

3:44:31I think staff have reiterated

3:44:32that they want to tackle it all at once,

3:44:34but if there is an appetite of council

3:44:36to change that sort of,

3:44:39to change that after the fact,

3:44:40to change that the amount that we do,

3:44:43or the timeline, or the speed at which we do it,

3:44:45you can have that conversation in budget.

3:44:47I think I've heard that pretty clear from staff.

3:44:49I'll be supporting the whole process

3:44:50just to keep it moving,

3:44:52but I am always open during the budget deliberations

3:44:55to look at reprioritizing projects.

3:44:57Thank you.

3:45:01Councillor Kerr-on.

3:45:04Yeah, it's not often, I think, Councillor Gibson,

3:45:06but thank you, Councillor Gibson,

3:45:07because you kind of clarified things for me

3:45:10to put into focus that the recommendation, number one,

3:45:14is to direct staff to issue the notice of completion.

3:45:17And one of the key things

3:45:19that I still don't have the information

3:45:22that I need to be able to vote in favor of that

3:45:24is whether or not a heritage impact assessment

3:45:26is required, not only for the existing structures,

3:45:29but for the impact on the MacDenell viaduct

3:45:34owned by Metrolinx.

3:45:35So I know staff have committed to a memo,

3:45:39which I appreciate,

3:45:41and it'll come back before the end of the month,

3:45:42but I don't think that I can vote on recommendation one

3:45:47until I have that information

3:45:48so that I can make a fully informed vote.

3:45:50So I am going to, I know we can't abstain,

3:45:53and an abstention is automatically a negative vote,

3:45:56so I'm going to vote against just based on that.

3:45:59I may change that vote with new information

3:46:01by the end of the month,

3:46:02but thank you, Councillor Gibson,

3:46:05for giving me clarity of focus.

3:46:10Okay, if anyone else have any comments?

3:46:14No, okay, just very simply,

3:46:17I do think there are a lot of opportunities

3:46:20to ground truth this further down the line.

3:46:22Staff have just provided us with a glimpse

3:46:25of what to foresee,

3:46:27including the conversations on heritage

3:46:31once the EA is underway.

3:46:33Like I know firsthand, dealing with Terry

3:46:35and with staff at IDE,

3:46:37with the Gordon Street improvements,

3:46:38that EA had set sail many terms of councils ago,

3:46:44but you guys are still doing the detailed design,

3:46:46and there's opportunities for me as a councillor

3:46:49to provide touch points

3:46:51so that you guys can contemplate

3:46:53what's the best course of action

3:46:55for that stretch of Gordon,

3:46:57and just know similar being too,

3:46:59like this is just a first step,

3:47:02and I just hope that we can continue

3:47:05to have these conversations down the road,

3:47:06and not preemptively say no to the entire process

3:47:10because we do need to keep this project going,

3:47:13and we need to make some decisions as a council,

3:47:15so that's just my take,

3:47:18but perhaps we could call the vote,

3:47:19and we can do recommendation one first.

3:47:22Yeah, can we vote on recommendation one?

3:47:25All those against?

3:47:30Okay, Councillor Allt, Councillor Cairon against.

3:47:35Okay, moving to recommendation two.

3:47:39All those against?

3:47:41Councillor Allt, and that's Councillor Allt.

3:47:46Okay, that's it, okay.

3:47:47Recommendation, Councillor Cairon,

3:47:49did you vote against or are in favour?

3:47:53No, I did not vote against.

3:47:54Okay, so I just called for a vote.

3:47:56Okay, and third recommendation,

3:47:59all those against?

3:48:03Okay, no one against, okay.

3:48:06All right, while we move on to our next one,

3:48:10thank you, Terry and team.

3:49:09Okay, why don't we just do a minute,

3:49:11give them a minute, three, you want three?

3:49:13Okay, we'll do three minutes, and then we'll get going.

3:49:16It's the presentation.

3:52:22All right, guys, I think we should get started.

3:52:25See James is falling asleep there.

3:52:36Okay, why don't we get our presentations going?

3:52:41I think we have James coming up.

3:52:51Thank you, Chair Chew, Council Mayor.

3:52:54We're here today to talk about the utility billing

3:52:56and collections project and update council.

3:53:01We recall back in 2021,

3:53:08a lecturer advised us that they would no longer

3:53:11be completing water billing on behalf of the city of Guelph.

3:53:15In October of 24, we brought forward to council

3:53:19direction to bring utility billing in-house.

3:53:24That was aligned with the city's strategic vision

3:53:28and ensuring cost efficiency, customer experience,

3:53:34leveraging existing technology,

3:53:36and also to ensure a smooth transition.

3:53:42I'm gonna now introduce Michelle Hesslip,

3:53:44manager, supervisor of utility billing and collections

3:53:50to finish the presentation.

3:53:56Hello, I'm gonna talk about the current status

3:54:00of the project.

3:54:02So the city is currently transitioning water billing

3:54:04and collections in-house using central square technologies,

3:54:08CST, the utility billing system.

3:54:11It's currently being used for the property tax billing

3:54:14and collections, as well as our online customer portal.

3:54:17So we found that the integration speech

3:54:18between those systems would be extremely beneficial to us.

3:54:22So currently staff are in the process of implementation,

3:54:24data validation, and training on the new utility billing

3:54:28system to support our in-house billing and collections team.

3:54:33The in-house billing and billing cutover has been set

3:54:37for the end of May, 2026.

3:54:40As of right now, staff are working diligently

3:54:42with a lecture to tax roll any outstanding water rears

3:54:45on the lecture accounts, just to reduce the overall rears

3:54:49balance prior to that cutover of May, 2026.

3:54:52So collecting these outstanding amounts for services

3:54:55already provided is essential to ensure financial stability

3:54:58and maintain affordable rates for all customers.

3:55:01Once this process becomes in-house,

3:55:04we will have a much more streamlined process

3:55:06for timely collections on any unpaid balances.

3:55:11So in regards to communications,

3:55:13with this transition information regarding the transition

3:55:18of water billing from a lecture to the city,

3:55:21has now been, it's now being communicated to the public

3:55:24through bill messages, bill inserts,

3:55:27and our website information.

3:55:29So I have some samples of the current communications

3:55:32on the websites right now.

3:55:33So this one right here is the Electra website.

3:55:37So it's just a very general statement about what's coming

3:55:41in the summer of 2026, and it allows

3:55:44electric customers to take a look to see what's

3:55:47going to be happening with their electricity bill,

3:55:49as well as that water bill transition to the city of Guelph.

3:55:52And on there, it just gives a direct link to our website,

3:55:55which also provides some general information

3:55:58to our customers as well as to what's going on.

3:56:02If you want to switch to our website,

3:56:05and if just scroll down a little bit there, there's a button.

3:56:09So coming summer of 2026,

3:56:10your water bill will come from the city.

3:56:12So this is just a first look at communications

3:56:17out to the public.

3:56:18It's very general, and as we move forward,

3:56:20it will be a lot more in depth.

3:56:23And then back to that presentation.

3:56:25Thank you.

3:56:26So staff have developed this communications plan

3:56:29to ensure customers are aware of the upcoming changes

3:56:32to their water billing, and we are working directly

3:56:34with Electra on that.

3:56:36In addition to the communication with the public today,

3:56:40bringing this presentation to council

3:56:42to provide some context and insight ahead of what is upcoming,

3:56:46and just offering a preview of what's anticipated in 2026.

3:56:53One of the major things that will be coming in 2026

3:56:55is the customer accounts bylaw.

3:56:58So the previous water and wastewater customer accounts

3:57:00bylaw designates Electra as our billing agent.

3:57:04So that would have to be repealed

3:57:06as it's no longer applicable

3:57:08following the in-house transition.

3:57:10The new customer accounts bylaw is coming to council

3:57:13for approval in early 26 to provide the authority

3:57:16for in-house activities and set the framework

3:57:19for our utility billing and collections.

3:57:21The new bylaw will be applicable to all properties

3:57:24that receive water, wastewater, and storm water services.

3:57:30In addition, or including included in this bylaw

3:57:34would be user fees.

3:57:35So these fees are charged directly

3:57:37to the requesting account holder that required action

3:57:40and are designed to recover the cost of providing the service.

3:57:45These user fees ensure that the cost

3:57:47of the individual service requests

3:57:48are borne by the requesting customer

3:57:51rather than being distributed across all account holders.

3:57:54Some examples of some user fees

3:57:56would be a change of occupancy.

3:57:57So when a customer moves in and out of their property,

3:57:59there would be a fee to process that transaction

3:58:03or that those changes.

3:58:06Additionally, a request of utility certificates

3:58:08showing the balance on water accounts

3:58:10at the time of the property purchase and sale.

3:58:13Unpaid water charges transferred

3:58:15to the property tax account.

3:58:17Payments that are rejected or returned

3:58:19from financial institutions and fees for any appointments

3:58:23that were scheduled for water meter activity

3:58:26if they didn't show up.

3:58:32In the bylaw, there's going to be some legislation.

3:58:34That legislation comes from the Municipal Act,

3:58:37specifically sections 391, 398, and 446

3:58:41to establish billing for services

3:58:43provided to the properties.

3:58:45It also states legislation and authority

3:58:47for collecting arrears through transfers

3:58:48to property tax through section 398 in,

3:58:51as well as the Ontario regulation.

3:58:54Additionally, consequences for non-compliance

3:58:56of the customer accounts bylaw are going to be outlined

3:59:00and they include enforcement and fines

3:59:02that are already aligned with our current bylaw in place,

3:59:05which regulates the supply of water in the city of Guelph.

3:59:11So just our framework of the customer accounts bylaw,

3:59:14so we've identified some efficiencies

3:59:16in having only property owners hold the water account.

3:59:19With the transition into in-house billing

3:59:21and collection staff are proposing

3:59:23that tenant accounts be phased out.

3:59:25How we're going to do that is when there is a change

3:59:27in occupancy or upon request, a new account

3:59:30will be set up in the name of the property owner.

3:59:33There will be options for a duplicate copy of a bill

3:59:36subject to additional fee, and that's mostly in place

3:59:39for tenant and landlord relationships.

3:59:42This change would ensure transparency for property owners

3:59:45who are legally responsible for any water billing arrears.

3:59:52Additionally, with the transition in-house,

3:59:55we are billing and collecting on stormwater.

3:59:58So following the transition of billing

4:00:00and collection in-house, the city will continue

4:00:02to impose fees and charges on residents

4:00:04for the stormwater services and activities

4:00:06as outlined in the schedule of a bylaw 2023-208-39.

4:00:12These fees and charges will be billed monthly

4:00:14to property owners, along with their water,

4:00:16wastewater and other charges.

4:00:18So the amendment to the bylaw is simply

4:00:21to ensure clarity and transparency.

4:00:23And it just confirms that monthly billing

4:00:25is calculated based on a 30-day month.

4:00:30And that concludes my presentation.

4:00:32Thank you.

4:00:35Okay, thank you.

4:00:37Let's put the recommendation on the floor.

4:00:40Yeah, Councillor Allt, seconded by...

4:00:45Yeah, no problem.

4:00:47Is there a seconder for this?

4:00:48Yeah.

4:00:49Councillor Boosterhill, okay.

4:00:51Why don't we go with Councillor Allt first?

4:00:53Thank you very much.

4:00:54Two questions.

4:00:55One, I don't know whether Mr. Crowder can comment on this,

4:00:59but I think it was with him I was talking

4:01:01when a resident called me,

4:01:03discovering that the resident owner

4:01:05of a property didn't live there,

4:01:07discovered that he slash she had a $4,000 water bill.

4:01:12I'm really happy with the customer accounts bylaw framework.

4:01:16I think that clarifies what can happen

4:01:19when essentially a scoff law leaves a property

4:01:22and leaves an owner.

4:01:23And I was wondering if you could...

4:01:25Leaves an owner hanging for a cost of water.

4:01:27I was wondering if you could comment on that.

4:01:28Is that an acute issue that the city has to deal with?

4:01:37Through Chair Chew to Councillor Allt.

4:01:40It's an issue that is prevalent all across Ontario.

4:01:43And legislation allows for the transfer of utility arrears

4:01:49supplied to a particular property,

4:01:52water, wastewater, stormwater, to the tax account.

4:01:56And it's not unique in Guelph.

4:02:00The uniqueness in Guelph right now

4:02:02is that we have a third party billing entity

4:02:05that is billing for us.

4:02:06And when we bring that in-house,

4:02:10our transparency to the property owner

4:02:12with bills going out directly to the property owner

4:02:14will increase and our timeliness for collections

4:02:17will also increase.

4:02:18Thank you for that.

4:02:19And that leads to the next question,

4:02:21which was a comment that was made about water,

4:02:25wastewater and other charges.

4:02:27What are those other charges?

4:02:29Are they things like arrears?

4:02:30Is that what we're referring to?

4:02:34So stormwater would be one of those other charges.

4:02:38Similarly, there are miscellaneous charges

4:02:41on the water side, for instance,

4:02:44for missed meter redea or meter replacement charges,

4:02:48et cetera, so those types of charges.

4:02:51Thank you very much.

4:02:52I really didn't know what we were talking about.

4:02:56Okay, Mayor Guthrie.

4:02:58Okay, thanks, Chair, and through you.

4:03:01I'm just wondering about,

4:03:03maybe my colleagues will agree with me, I don't know,

4:03:05but this is like so administrative in nature, right?

4:03:08Like it's kind of like, we have to do this, right?

4:03:11Like there's no choice.

4:03:14So I'm just kind of wondering why,

4:03:17like how is this coming back to us in Q1 of next year?

4:03:21I understand we have to change bylaws.

4:03:23You need counsel vote to change bylaws, I get that.

4:03:26But can it just be like a bylaw at the end of an agenda

4:03:30that we just vote on?

4:03:33Why does it need to come back,

4:03:35like as a report or something like that?

4:03:37And if there's valid reasons why it does need to come back,

4:03:40is that I'll take that.

4:03:42Well, I'm sure we'll take that,

4:03:43but I just, I'm just wondering why,

4:03:46how are you wanting to bring it back to us next year?

4:03:48Were you thinking of an actual report?

4:03:50And because this is just all so administrative in nature,

4:03:54I just feel like we could just delegate this to you

4:03:59to implement.

4:04:03Through Chair Chew to Mayor Guthrie.

4:04:06Great question.

4:04:10One of the reasons we're doing these public staff reports

4:04:14is to inform the public also along the process.

4:04:19It is very administrative in nature, you're correct.

4:04:24And we will take that comment back

4:04:26and look to see how we go about bringing that bylaw forward

4:04:30in Q1.

4:04:31It may just come as an attachment at the end of the agenda.

4:04:36It may also come with information report also prior to that,

4:04:41just to update council as well as the public

4:04:45on the status of the process.

4:04:48Okay, thank you.

4:04:50Chair DeMarva, I just have a quick comment then.

4:04:52Thank you.

4:04:54You know, this sort of a whole issue arose a couple of years ago,

4:05:00kind of a little bit out of the blue, right?

4:05:01So not only Guelph, but the other shareholders

4:05:06were all sort of caught with this issue.

4:05:09And I think everyone understood why it was happening.

4:05:13The line of business that Electra was in is not this business.

4:05:16And so from their financial obligations

4:05:19and running their business, we understood it.

4:05:23But it was definitely complicated.

4:05:26And it was, I just wanna acknowledge and recognize

4:05:30like you and the staff and others behind the scenes

4:05:33that have had to, you know, boom,

4:05:36this is kind of on your desk, right?

4:05:39And it's taken a while to wade through all of this

4:05:42to get to this point.

4:05:43And as administrative in nature as it is,

4:05:46it really did take a long time to sort of figure out

4:05:50the best route forward.

4:05:51And I think you've landed at a really good spot

4:05:54on how this is going to move forward.

4:05:56And even though it's quite,

4:05:57I would say like technical in nature billing,

4:06:01you've married it with this customer service side of it

4:06:05as well that I think is brilliant as you move forward.

4:06:09I just wanna really recognize that.

4:06:12And then finally, it's to comment on what councillor

4:06:15all brought up, which I wanted to bring up as well.

4:06:17I think all of us are getting some calls recently

4:06:23of some members of the public that are landlords

4:06:27that are waking up to councillor Aldous right.

4:06:31I had a lady last week, $4,500.

4:06:36Okay, $4,500.

4:06:38Most of them are in like the 1,000 to $1,500 range.

4:06:42And I just wanted to say this out loud.

4:06:46There is the ability,

4:06:48because I'm now very knowledgeable on this,

4:06:51there is the ability under the provincial government

4:06:54through the landlord and tenant act,

4:06:55I think it's called an N10, am I correct?

4:06:59An L10, sorry, an L10,

4:07:02which the province changed in the last little while

4:07:04to allow sort of tenants and landlords to be able to try

4:07:09and well, especially for the landlords

4:07:12to be able to try to get some of that, that arrears back.

4:07:16The other issue is that at the end of the day,

4:07:19it is quite a civil matter.

4:07:21Like it's a civil matter between a landlord and a tenant.

4:07:25And so we at the city are sort of,

4:07:29we're out of that end, we're not in that lane, right?

4:07:32And anything in regards to landlord tenant issues

4:07:35is all under the province.

4:07:36And so I just, I think I speak on behalf of all of council

4:07:40here, the empathy is massive from all of us that,

4:07:43of people, including staff,

4:07:44that find out that these issues have arisen,

4:07:49but our staff have looked into it.

4:07:52There is the ability, as I said, on the civil side

4:07:55or on the landlord and tenant board side

4:07:56for people to address it.

4:07:58And the last thing is, is that in looking at this

4:08:01through staff's help and some citizen's help too,

4:08:05it's what we're doing is already best practice

4:08:08across the entire province.

4:08:10Like Guelph is not an outlier at all on this issue,

4:08:14as bad as it is for those people that wake up to those issues.

4:08:18And I just wanted to chair and to council just to say that

4:08:22all the sort of out loud,

4:08:23just to sort of make sure it was in the public realm

4:08:25that we understand how difficult that would be for sure.

4:08:30I'd freak out too, we all would,

4:08:33but there is ways outside of sort of the municipality

4:08:36to be able to try to address those.

4:08:39And so I appreciate that.

4:08:40And yeah, happy to support all this work that you've done.

4:08:43And hopefully we can just sort of wrap it up next year,

4:08:46then when you come back to us.

4:08:48Okay, Councillor Cain.

4:08:51Thank you, through you chair.

4:08:54So my understanding is that the landlord's

4:08:56gonna get the main bill.

4:08:59So are there, I know this is not necessarily us

4:09:03is potentially provincial,

4:09:04but is there something that we can point renters to?

4:09:09Cause how do they know that they're being charged

4:09:11the correct amount for their water usage

4:09:14if they're not getting a bill for their own usage?

4:09:22So through chair Chew to Councillor Cain,

4:09:26that would be covered within the landlord tenant agreement

4:09:32and what is required from a perspective of

4:09:35whether the utilities would be included within the rent,

4:09:40or separate, and that's a contractual obligation

4:09:42between the landlord and the tenant.

4:09:46So they would have to deal with it through their landlord

4:09:50and find out if they've got their stuff individually metered.

4:09:56Through chair Chew, correct.

4:10:00Okay, thank you.

4:10:04Okay, I'm just gonna provide a few quick comments.

4:10:08Oh, and Councillor Billings.

4:10:11Yes.

4:10:12So through you, Mr. Chair, I just have a quick question

4:10:16because I didn't see this.

4:10:19So this was in the last report,

4:10:21it talked about some of the costs for this transition.

4:10:28And so I was wondering, I think it was,

4:10:30and who cares if I don't have the exact numbers,

4:10:34but I think it was around 700,000.

4:10:36So I'm not talking capital, just operating around 700,000.

4:10:41So are we still in that ballpark

4:10:43or in the report with the financial implications?

4:10:46Are we going over that as far as the operating financial

4:10:52implications are concerned with this transition?

4:10:58Through chair Chew, the Councillor Billings, great question.

4:11:02As we continue to roll out the go live

4:11:06that will be occurring in June,

4:11:07we're looking at ways to continue to mitigate

4:11:10the additional costs with regards

4:11:12to bringing utility billing in-house.

4:11:15The largest cost is that of postage.

4:11:18So previously we shared postage with Electra for every bill

4:11:22and the delivery of those bills.

4:11:24We now bore that main cost solely on ourselves.

4:11:30So we will be working at ways to convince

4:11:36and entice property owners to sign up for e-billing

4:11:41and other services such as that that increase efficiencies.

4:11:45So at this time, that estimate of 700,000 still stands,

4:11:50but we are working at all possible ways to mitigate that.

4:11:55So that's good because actually that was going to be

4:11:58my next question about postage

4:12:00because it is going to cost us quite a bit.

4:12:03So is there a way we can speed up that process

4:12:06to get more property owners to sign up

4:12:10so that I'll just receive an email with my bill

4:12:13instead of we have to pay for postage?

4:12:15Is there a way that we can implement that quicker?

4:12:20And through chair Chew, the Councillor Billings,

4:12:22you're starting that process right now.

4:12:25You're talking about it.

4:12:28You can continue to talk about that to the public

4:12:31and as soon as we have those channels set up,

4:12:34they will be available on our website

4:12:38through social media, et cetera.

4:12:40Okay, and when do you think that,

4:12:42you know, that I could sign up for e-billing?

4:12:45When do you think, what month?

4:12:50Through chair Chew in the new year.

4:12:54Okay, so one more thing I just wanted, well, thank you for that.

4:12:57So clarity through you, Mr. Chair.

4:13:00When it came to in the presentation with the fees,

4:13:03when you move out, when you move in,

4:13:06so will there be two separate fees for me moving out

4:13:09and the other person moving in,

4:13:11or is there just one fee with respect to this issue?

4:13:16So through chair Chew, the Councillor Billings,

4:13:19it may depend.

4:13:21So there will be a new owner fee

4:13:26similar to any other utility that is in place.

4:13:32From a move out perspective,

4:13:33depending on the timing and requirement for a final read,

4:13:41there may be like a last minute move out fee

4:13:44where, you know, the customer contacts us

4:13:47and they need a final read to occur tomorrow, for instance,

4:13:51versus in a timely fashion,

4:13:54which would be like within a two week cycle

4:13:57or something like that.

4:13:58So those fees are not yet baked out,

4:14:01but there may be fees from that perspective on a move outside.

4:14:05Okay, and then last question through you, Mr. Chair,

4:14:07on that, when you bring back the bylaw,

4:14:10will that have the fee schedule then attached to that bylaw?

4:14:14So we see what it is.

4:14:16So through chair Chew to Councillor Billings,

4:14:19the fee schedule will be coming

4:14:21as part of the budget package this year.

4:14:25Okay, thank you, James.

4:14:29Okay, just again, any more comments first?

4:14:31Nope, okay, I have mine.

4:14:33So thanks for all this.

4:14:36I know that you're in a tough business right now

4:14:38and we've had a couple of conversations

4:14:40and I really appreciate your team's work

4:14:43to navigate this for I-SALF

4:14:45and members of the Council and members of the public.

4:14:50I'm just curious, like moving forward

4:14:51with the framework in place,

4:14:53like how frequently will we be collecting arrears

4:14:57and is that something that can be made known to the public

4:15:00or is that something that's in-house for you to discern

4:15:03on a case-by-case basis?

4:15:12To you, Chair Chew,

4:15:15if I understand your question correctly,

4:15:19we will have a process in place

4:15:21where if payment is not made on the due date,

4:15:26reminder notices will go out.

4:15:29If payment continues to be unpaid

4:15:32for a 60-day timeframe,

4:15:34then that amount would be transferred to a tax account.

4:15:38So that would be baked into the utility billing

4:15:43and collections policy, those timelines.

4:15:46Okay, no, I appreciate that.

4:15:48And I guess I'm curious for the transition

4:15:51because folks are being caught off guard

4:15:54about these arrears because of the gap

4:15:59between us and Electra.

4:16:01How are we going about collecting arrears

4:16:04during this transition period

4:16:05where Electra still has some ownership in this process?

4:16:10Yeah, through you to, Chair Chew.

4:16:12That's where Michelle and her team

4:16:14are really working very well with Electra

4:16:18to put in place the process of tax rolling

4:16:23and collection of those arrears.

4:16:26The process starts with Electra notifying

4:16:30and trying to back on track program also.

4:16:34And in those situations where the accounts

4:16:37have been finalized or that isn't working

4:16:41from an Electra standpoint,

4:16:42then those are being internalized with the city

4:16:46and put on property taxes for collection.

4:16:49Okay, yeah, no, I appreciate all that.

4:16:51And I would just up to size the communications piece

4:16:54of this is going to be very important

4:16:57because this has a direct impact on people's tax bills.

4:17:00So maybe we can work on that

4:17:02and even have all those resources listed on the webpage

4:17:06very clearly and very simply

4:17:09that would do people a lot of service.

4:17:13Anyways, appreciate the work you guys are doing.

4:17:16I'm gonna call a vote.

4:17:18Anyone against?

4:17:20Okay, no, that's carried.

4:17:23Okay, and I think Mayor Guthrie has a little announcement

4:17:27to make before we adjourn.

4:17:29Thank you, Chair.

4:17:29And I hope you don't mind me jumping in here.

4:17:31I just wanted on behalf of council to congratulate

4:17:37Stephen O'Brien, who is our new deputy CAO

4:17:41for infrastructure development and environment.

4:17:47Corporate services.

4:17:48Sorry, that's right.

4:17:50And corporate services, sorry.

4:17:52And, but maybe you could take it all on, whatever.

4:17:55No, we appreciate you for what you have done

4:18:00in the clerk's office for so many years.

4:18:03And we're very happy to hear of your new role

4:18:07on the executive team as well.

4:18:10And we always thank you for your service

4:18:13and we wish you all the best in this new role.

4:18:16You're suited for it, you deserve it.

4:18:18And let me tell you, I go to many conferences

4:18:27and other municipal events.

4:18:30And Stephen is asked about a lot.

4:18:36And so there's many municipalities and others

4:18:40that really look up to you and what you've done.

4:18:44And so we're very fortunate to have you here.

4:18:47So just thank you, Chair.

4:18:49Just wanted to make sure that we acknowledge

4:18:50to that new role for you.

4:18:52Congratulations.

4:18:57Okay, just me then.

4:18:59I'll call adjournment.

4:19:04Councillor Allt, you wanna keep going?

4:19:06And then Councillor Allt.

4:19:07Councillor K, we're adjourned.

4:19:09Thank you, everyone.

4:19:13Anyone oppose?

4:19:14Great, thanks.