Council Planning

12:02All right, good afternoon everybody. I'd like to call the meeting to order if I could just have

12:07I'm gonna do counting now one two three four five six seven we have eight we have nine do I hear 10

12:15okay good uh thank you everybody for joining us for our city council meeting now we're right

12:21off the top looking forward to go into a closed session and the item that we are looking to go

12:29into closed session four it's only one is titled comprehensive zoning bylaw appeals Ontario land

12:36tribunal updates section 239 to E and F of the municipal act regarding litigation or potential

12:44litigation including matters before administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local

12:49boards and advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communications necessary

12:54for that purpose is there anyone that has any disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general

13:00nature thereof for that one item before I look to call the vote no and look just before I do that

13:07just to have it on the on the record here um uh a downer coran um well I didn't hear from Gibson

13:20so downer and coran have indicated that they weren't going to be able to probably make it

13:24for this howzer also indicated councillor howzer also said that she wouldn't be able to make this

13:29portion of the meeting so just so it's just noted in the minutes um and so with that uh would someone

13:35be willing to move uh to go into closed I'll go to my friends online here today busitil and alt

13:42we'll move and second that is there anyone against moving into closed that's nobody so that's unanimous

13:48so we will have a closed meeting on that matter described it's the only item we will discuss and

13:56as usual when it is done I will do a high level summary uh but I will do that at the beginning

14:02of the open meeting that starts at four o'clock okay so at this point uh we will probably see you

14:09back here at four o'clock thank you all right good afternoon everybody thank you very much for

1:40:12joining us it is February 10th 2026 and it is four o'clock and so we are looking to uh start

1:40:22our open session meeting if I could just have making sure my colleagues on screen turn their

1:40:29cameras on just so that we have quorum so that we can at least have the meeting that would be great

1:40:36uh and just so everyone knows I do have regrets at this time councillor hauser

1:40:44will probably be making her way down so she'll be joining us soon um uh quorum is unavailable

1:40:52uh downer I believe is unavailable as well I think that's it that I have that I was told about

1:41:00so um just before I call the meeting to or officially to order for the open session

1:41:07we did go into a closed session at 2 30 and it was listed on the on the agenda for us

1:41:14and the title of that one item that we went into closed for was comprehensive zoning by law

1:41:21appeals for the Ontario land tribunal update and so just as a high level summary out here

1:41:27in the open session council did give direction to staff on that matter okay so just so everyone

1:41:33knows that but that's uh that's it for the summary and so with that if you could please

1:41:40join me in standing as we if you're able if we could recognize our national anthem that would be

1:41:46great thank you I don't know who that was that how's that wonderful voice who was that was

1:43:19oh I don't have my glasses on okay well done I don't know if you know but uh we allow people to

1:43:28come and do the national anthem for us or not listen to the to the recording so I'll put you

1:43:35on the list that was quick good thank you very much all right with that just as we continue just a

1:43:40moment of a silent reflection okay great thank you and our territorial acknowledgement as we gather

1:44:01let us take time to reflect on the privilege to live and work here in Guelph a city that's built

1:44:05over rich indigenous histories as guests here we should reflect upon the responsibility to care for

1:44:11the land and the people who live here today and the generations to come if our actions today can

1:44:17move us towards reconciliation we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and

1:44:23gratitude this place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a price of refuge for many

1:44:28peoples over time but more specifically the Anahuanarok and the Hone Shoni this land is held

1:44:34as the treaty lands and territory with the mississaugas of the credit first nation and Guelph lies

1:44:40directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established traditional hunting

1:44:44grounds for the six nations of the Grand River many first nations Inuit and Métis people who have

1:44:51come from across Turtle Island called Guelph home today thank you and is there any disclosure of

1:45:00interest any general nature there of for the items that are in front of us today council

1:45:08don't hear or see anybody you know not one of you could sit over here not one of you to balance it

1:45:15out if Catherine if a councillor house or comes we'll make her sit over there okay um with that

1:45:24we have a consent agenda we've got 38 Clinton street the notice of intention to designate

1:45:3144 Enbril road north the notice of intention to designate and could I have someone just first

1:45:38of all does anyone want to hold those for any reason no councillor Klassen you want to move

1:45:43those for us for consent yeah bowler you're good to second that anything further on those items

1:45:49hearing and seeing none I'll call the vote is anyone against the consent agenda today

1:45:56hearing and seeing none that's unanimous thank you now we're moving under items for discussion

1:46:04you'll see on the agenda just to call it out loud the public meeting on the claire road proposal

1:46:11but that application was deferred and it was requested by the applicant okay so

1:46:17just to make sure everyone knows that we're not going to be discussing that one as

1:46:20it's been deferred as requested by the proponent there so into items for discussion the first

1:46:27one out of the gate is the designation of Ontario reformatory heritage conservation district

1:46:34we're going to have a presentation from steven robinson our planner for the senior planner for

1:46:41for heritage for the city and we have two three four we got five people that have signed up as

1:46:50delegations so steven we'll start with you and uh and then we'll move on to our delegations after

1:46:58that okay so thank you very much steven thank you mayor Guthrie mayor Guthrie and members of council

1:47:10senior staff and all who have joined us for this meeting in person and online i am very pleased to

1:47:18bring you the to bring your heritage planning staff report on the final major step in the

1:47:25Ontario reformatory heritage conservation district designation project i want to start by introducing

1:47:32myself or maybe reintroducing myself i'm steven robinson the senior heritage planner for the city

1:47:38i'm joined to my right by heidi shop of wsp heidi has been the consultant team lead for the entire

1:47:47second phase or the plan phase of the or hcd project the staff report before you provides

1:47:55background on the work completed to date a summary of consultation and engagement activities

1:48:02feedback received and actions taken in response to comments and concerns raised

1:48:09i just want to touch on what i feel are a few key points in order to help inform council's

1:48:15consideration of staff's recommendations regarding the or hcd staff's recommendations are to proceed

1:48:24to designate the area within the approved boundary as the or hcd under part five of the

1:48:29Ontario heritage act and also to adopt the associated or hcd district plan and guidelines

1:48:37as presented in attachment to of the staff report it has been a long and winding road

1:48:46that we started on together five years ago in 2021 when council directed staff to initiate a

1:48:53heritage conservation district study for the former ontario reformatory lands the or hcd

1:49:00project has included community consultation and key audience engagement to better understand the

1:49:07community association and other connections with the ontario reformatory site and to identify key

1:49:13considerations and priorities for the or hcd plan the following audiences were involved in the

1:49:20engagement they would be the heritage advisory committee the community and landowner group

1:49:26which is made up of key community groups and owners of property within the hcd study area

1:49:32who have a special interest or involvement in the with the study area members of the public

1:49:39people who live in work in and visit guelph and people from other communities with a connection to

1:49:45or interest in the study area the mississaugas of the credit first nation and the six nations of

1:49:51the grand river elected council in addition virtual engagement tools were used throughout the or hcd

1:49:59study and plan to gather feedback on the hcd process and that virtual and virtual engagement

1:50:06tools were hosted on the city's have your page engagement website the community engagement

1:50:12feedback received as part of the or hc study has informed the development of the or hcd plan

1:50:21so you'll remember that back in march 21st 2023 city council approved the recommendations from the

1:50:27or hcd study as well as the proposed boundary and that's you can see that as attachment one of the

1:50:36staff report the council also directed that a heritage conservation district plan and guidelines

1:50:42be prepared for the lands within the hcd boundary the initial draft of the or hcd plan and guidelines

1:50:50was released for council and public review and comment on november 1st 2024 and considered at

1:50:57the council planning meeting held november 13th and continuing on november 26th the meeting served

1:51:04as the statutory public meeting for the project under the provisions of the ontario heritage act

1:51:10at the public meeting council considered the petition for the establishment of a national

1:51:14urban park within the or hcd boundary and indicated support in principle staff continue to hold the

1:51:22position that although the national urban park initiative has received support in principle from

1:51:28council and subsequently from the heritage advisory committee the urban park is not a city led project

1:51:35and it's important to understand that the urban park initiative would be subject to a federal

1:51:40application process that is separate from the or hcd plan and project comments and feedback from

1:51:48the public meeting on in november of 2024 the the heritage advisory committee's workshop session in

1:51:56january of 2025 and the public and from the public through the may 2025 public open house

1:52:02and online engagement have been considered by staff and the consultant in the preparation of the

1:52:08revised and final draft of the or hcd plan that's presented in attachment to the report

1:52:16some key revisions to the plan include the following the final plan has been updated to

1:52:23include stronger language throughout words like should and seek to or terms like seek to

1:52:30have been replaced with shall where appropriate plain language summaries were added throughout

1:52:36the plan to help readers understand the intent of policy and guideline heavy sections the community

1:52:43value placed on greenspace and recreational use has been noted and i want to point out that it's

1:52:49important to understand that as per the approved gid secondary plan adaptive reuse already permits

1:52:57a mix of uses including institutional educational commercial office light industrial and open

1:53:05space and park in a form that respects the heritage attributes of the or hcd section 5.1 of the plan

1:53:14proposes an overlay for adapt for land use in the adaptive reuse area of the gid including the

1:53:24three areas called the or chl core the adaptive reuse areas a and b now you can see these you

1:53:35probably have them bookmarked already i'm sure but uh if you'd like to look at them again in

1:53:40attachment to they're on page 48 otherwise known as pdf page 56 so the the areas i'm referring to

1:53:50the core area is signified in yellow the adaptive reuse area a is a light green and the adaptive

1:53:59reuse area b is dark blue all within a black dashed line that indicates the adaptive reuse

1:54:07area established by the gid secondary plan so the intent of this overlay is to illustrate the

1:54:17recommended policies in section 5.1 of the or hcd plan so new development and significant

1:54:25landscape alterations are not proposed by the plan in the chl core area they're they're not

1:54:32proposed but if those were would be proposed those would be carefully considered as the core is really

1:54:41as its name signifies it's really the core area of the the reformatory heritage conservation district

1:54:49the or hcd plan recommends that from a heritage conservation perspective the recommended land

1:54:55use for adaptive reuse area a which is sometimes known as the front yard is open space and park

1:55:03in a form that respects and aligns with the presence of landscape heritage attributes in this portion

1:55:09of the hcd the plan recommends land use options within adaptive reuse area b the larger dark blue

1:55:18area to the rear and side of the main block of reformatory buildings that those land use options

1:55:26include in institutional educational commercial office and residential policy recommendations

1:55:35presented in this section and in the associated guidelines they still include parameters for

1:55:41development so the city staff have the ability to contemplate and control residential or other

1:55:49use and have underlined this if if proposal of this type were to arise this has changed from

1:55:57the public meeting and staff have made changes to contemplate residential if it were to arise

1:56:05we know this is controversial but since the secondary plan was approved there is federal

1:56:10provincial and local attention to housing the lack of housing and affordability staff feel it is

1:56:17important to have in the or hcd policies that address residential if it were to occur versus

1:56:25having no policies related to housing and thus the hcd not being applicable if the block plan for

1:56:34process proposed to change the land uses already approved in the adaptive reuse area within the

1:56:41gid secondary plan council would have to decide and council would have to decide whether to support

1:56:48the changes through amendments to the zoning bylaw and the official plan if that were to occur the

1:56:55or hcd would already contain policies that would help to control the built form of that land use

1:57:01change the change in land use would not occur because of the or hcd plan it would be a result

1:57:08of council changing course in its official plan and gid secondary plan so in in order to provide

1:57:17time for the public to review the final draft of the plan and guideline the release was announced

1:57:23at the january 15th meeting of the heritage advisory committee and it was made available on the or hcd

1:57:30project engagement page on have you say and also on the city's or hcd web page i have to apologize

1:57:38for constantly repeating those acronyms but it's better than rhyming out the entire words

1:57:46the heritage advisory committee indicated unanimous support for the or hcd plan at their meeting of

1:57:52february 5th in 2026 so next steps if council passes the proposed heritage designation bylaw

1:58:02for the or hcd which you can see as attachment three in the staff report notice would be published

1:58:10and a 30 day appeal period would begin if no notice of appeal is received the bylaw comes

1:58:16into force the day following the last day of the appeal period that's not really new information

1:58:25but what's also very important is something i refer to often as prevent provincial exemption

1:58:31it's important to understand that municipal heritage designation bylaws and the requirement

1:58:37of heritage permit approvals under part four and part five of the entera heritage act are not

1:58:44in force in effect on property that is under provincial ownership province of anterio is

1:58:50currently the owner of 785 york road the largest property within the or hcd boundary which contains

1:58:57most of the existing built heritage resources so finally i'd like to to address what i've

1:59:05subtitled losing non designated properties on the heritage register many of the heritage

1:59:11attributes in the or hcd have pending protection by the city of guelph in its approval in 2021

1:59:19of a heritage designation bylaw for 785 york road however not all built heritage resources

1:59:26or cultural heritage landscapes within that property were named as heritage attributes to

1:59:31be protected by that bylaw at the time that council at that same time council directed staff to list

1:59:38additional resources as non designated properties on the municipal register of cultural heritage

1:59:44properties council motion included built heritage resources that the province has since demolished

1:59:52and has plans to demolish and those being the the reformatory wooden trestle railway bridge

1:59:59and more recently the powerhouse chimney stack and service tunnel to the powerhouse

2:00:07in november 2022 the government of anterio made changes to the heritage act through bills 23 and

2:00:13185 that would remove that will remove all non designated properties from the municipal registers

2:00:21as of january 1st 2027 so that's next year therefore the following built heritage resources

2:00:28and cultural heritage landscape would be removed from our municipal heritage register and have no

2:00:34heritage status or protection under the heritage act those would be the chapel building the wood

2:00:40kiln building laning mill and stores the woollen mill building and the reformatory quarry area

2:00:48which is a cultural heritage landscape being part of 80 dunlop drive

2:00:54as these extant built heritage resources and cultural heritage landscapes have been included

2:00:59as heritage attributes in the or hcd they would be protected by the approval of the proposed

2:01:07hcd plan or and by or bylaw i should say i will be happy to provide any clarification

2:01:15for you or to answer any questions that you may have thank you great thank you very much for

2:01:22that overview we appreciate it well what we'll do is we'll get right into the delegations and then

2:01:27come back to see if there's any questions afterwards just so we can hear the delegations first and so

2:01:32with that i did say that we have about five are you going to join me on this side thank you very

2:01:40much i feel lonely over here um susan ratt cliff i think susan here in person no okay we'll jump to

2:01:54the next one uh and that is is it lin uh pistare yep i'm just waiting for it to come on the video

2:02:09can you see me oh uh not yet but we can hear you okay yeah thank you very much for joining us

2:02:17it's maria gathry speaking and just for yourself and for anyone else that's going to come up or

2:02:21join us today uh it is no more than five minutes that you're allowed to speak at the four minute

2:02:29and thirty second mark there's like a chime or a bell that goes off to give you a thirty second

2:02:34warning uh and unfortunately at the five minute mark you are cut off your microphone is turned off

2:02:40so let's not get there and then uh uh stick around just in case that there is any questions from

2:02:45myself or my colleagues okay so your time starts then whenever you're you're starting okay you go

2:02:51right ahead okay uh thank you to the mayor and council for providing this opportunity for me to

2:02:58speak today i am the chair of york lands green hub and come as a representative to speak with you

2:03:04all and as many of you know we have been working to preserve this site for over 12 years and are in

2:03:09full support of establishing a national urban park there as others um as as others will have be

2:03:18addressing the inclusion of parameters around residential development in the orcd plan which

2:03:25is actually not included in the list even mentioned earlier we also do not support any residential

2:03:30development on the orlands now or in the future and given that this plan will likely take precedence

2:03:37over other planning documents in the event of a conflict with existing municipal zoning and other

2:03:43bylaws that were in place before the orcd we respectfully request that council refrain from

2:03:49approving the final draft until residential development guidelines are replaced with the

2:03:54natural cultural heritage guidelines to reflect the significance of the site and the public's wishes

2:04:01i also want to point out some concerns about the project to widen york road and the potential

2:04:07impacts on clive creek if it if it is realigned to clarify we are very glad to hear that sidewalks

2:04:14and bike lanes will be added as the current conditions on the road are quite hazardous

2:04:19to any pedestrians or cyclists however realigning clive creek is a different matter as this section

2:04:25of the or property contains some of the richest heritage features in this home to many wildlife

2:04:30species including turtles mink otter ducks herons and other extra species we understand that the

2:04:37current historic weirs in the creek are destructive to cold water fish like brook trout and that ideally

2:04:43for the sake of maximizing biodiversity they should be removed however oversight and careful examination

2:04:50is needed to determine the best way forward and to examine the latest information available but what

2:04:56was there originally before the creek recently maps have been found on the property as far back as

2:05:021847 by brian scarrett which shows that the creek led into a large wetland called cedar swamp this

2:05:09indicates that we don't know for sure if brook trout ever swam through that creek out also are the

2:05:15findings of the recommendations in the clive creek sub watershed study going that is going on right now

2:05:22and whether that is going to be part of the planning and design process this study ties

2:05:27into the whole residential development question as the sub water state states on page 221 under

2:05:34current conditions there are significant flood risks for property infrastructure and persons

2:05:38during a significant storm event within lands associated with york road watson parkway north

2:05:45watson road north reformatory lands and other lands within the golf innovation district

2:05:51what we are advocating for is much more fulsome examination of clive creek with public input to

2:05:57determine the best way forward to ensure both biodiversity is enhanced and the cultural heritage

2:06:03features are preserved as much as possible as well as the implementation of heritage permits

2:06:09for any changes being proposed for the to the heritage features also it's very unclear whether

2:06:15provisions in the or hcd plan will apply to this strip of land being purchased or not

2:06:21other questions we have are what happens to get what happens to getting access to the property

2:06:26during this construction many people rely on this space for walking daily with their dogs and

2:06:31families to connect with nature and relieve stress in conclusion we urge council to take the

2:06:36necessary time to carefully consider the long-term impacts of all proposed changes to the or lands

2:06:43our community hugely values the unique natural and cultural heritage of this site

2:06:48and it's essential that future decisions prioritize ecological integrity public access and

2:06:53the preservation of heritage features for generations to come and we look forward to

2:06:58ongoing dialogue and collaboration to ensure the or lands remained a vibrant healthy and

2:07:03accessible green space for all residents thank you thank you so much for your delegation

2:07:10is there a follow-up for our delegate okay councillor Gibson please hi thank you through

2:07:17mr. mayor and thank you Lynn for joining us today i'll commit to asking staff that same question

2:07:23i was under the impression in the capital budget of a few years ago that the the york road

2:07:29redevelopment approach was significantly rescoped to avoid the um realignment of plight creek

2:07:34but i'll commit to asking that to staff during question periods as well okay thank you

2:07:40councillor Allt and then councillor Goller questions of the delegate please thank you very much mayor

2:07:46gathley through you to the delegate mrs. basbari you made reference to concerns for residential

2:07:56development and your opposition to it i was wondering if you could outline what the foundations of

2:08:02your opposition might be please um it's it's because of the the well the issue around the flood

2:08:10plains um and the the um statement in the clive creek sub watershed study characterization report

2:08:19that says that any large event of a storm event could you know could cause quite a lot of flooding

2:08:29in that area um as estates in that in that study that's that's uh currently been released that the

2:08:35characterization report um and also just the sheer biodiversity um that's in that piece of land

2:08:44it's it's just we're losing more and more biodiversity um and we're facing climate change

2:08:49and we're just you know we keep paving over everything and it's just i don't think this is the right

2:08:56piece of land to put more housing and i don't i don't personally believe that the housing that

2:09:03will go there will be affordable it will be large 1.4 million houses most likely if anything goes there

2:09:10um and so i'm just that's why we're very much opposed and plus it will will have a huge impact on

2:09:18all of the the um the green space that's there the biodiversity the um the you know all of the

2:09:25features the heritage features um that are there it will you know it will have an impact on that so

2:09:34thank you very much i might ask this question staff and perhaps even another delegate

2:09:40great thank you councillor Allt and just as a reminder this is not an official plan report in

2:09:45front of us to change or add any zoning of residential at all okay just as a reminder

2:09:51um and i think i had one more question was it you councillor go ahead uh thank you

2:09:56through your worship to to the delegate thank you thank you so much um for your delegation

2:10:01i i heard um our senior planner say clearly that if the city does not include provisions

2:10:11to address the eventuality of of the province saying you can build housing here then the plan

2:10:17would not apply so just just wanted to hear your thoughts on that lin would it be worth to you

2:10:23risking having the plan not be applicable um by by removing the provision of what to do if we have to

2:10:32if this is sold privately and it is you know the province says this is now residential

2:10:38well it it i think it by including it it implies that that the city is on board for residential

2:10:46development they're good to be going there um it introduces the idea um in the first place um

2:10:56and i think that that and it doesn't wouldn't necessarily like if if the or hcd plan was put

2:11:04in place then um that would be the the ultimate word and and nobody would be able to provide any

2:11:13input into any um after that so um sorry i'm not a planning expert um and i'm you know trying to

2:11:24answer the question the best of my ability at this point but for that's my understanding that the or hcd

2:11:29plan would take precedence over any other um kind of um planning processes where public the public

2:11:38is allowed input okay okay no thank you for that and i will be asking that question of staff when

2:11:43it comes time to that thank you so much thank you thank you there's nothing nothing further at this

2:11:50time lin thank you as well for joining us we appreciate it great thank you and i saw susan

2:11:58wrackliffe walk in tada come on down yep yep come on down yeah thanks for joining us uh you were uh

2:12:13you were number one on our list you're now number two you're still in the top two so that's good uh

2:12:18you know the drill here no more than five minutes okay susan and uh you'll hear the chime at four

2:12:24minutes thirty second mark the time starts when you start go right ahead at the city of guelph we

2:12:29believe that meaningful engagement is the cornerstone of progress this is why we ensure that your voice

2:12:36is part of the city's decision-making process as we work towards making guelph an inclusive connected

2:12:44prosperous city where we look after each other in our environment why should you engage because your

2:12:52voice matters i'm quoting from the community engagement policy meaningful engagement is the

2:12:59cornerstone of progress we ensure that your voice matters really i mean really since 2013 you have

2:13:10ignored citizen voices on the matter of the ontario reformatory lands since 2013 yorkland's green hub

2:13:18has been advocating for the preservation of the orc land or lands since 2013 we have conducted

2:13:27walks arranged talks run summer camps and even cleaned the garbage weekly in june 2021 we gathered

2:13:3531 delegations over 300 letters and emails that advocated for this hdcd plan citizens applauded

2:13:45the decision and participated in great numbers in the consultations for this plan 15 pages on have

2:13:54your say 125 citizens at the first public meeting but did our voices really matter according to the

2:14:04staff report for today's meeting no not at all we specifically insisted not just on stronger

2:14:14language and correct grammar and spelling we insisted on removing all references to allowing

2:14:21or managing residential or commercial commercial development on these lands now the final draft

2:14:29says numerous comments subjected to the proposed residential land use in the orcd especially

2:14:37in the adaptive reuse area the community highly values the green space and recreational character

2:14:45of the or lands and do not see residential land use as an appropriate land use designation

2:14:53our meaningful engagement has been once again been dismissed the staff report acknowledges the

2:15:00community's robust engagement in all stages of the process the staff report then dismisses

2:15:08both the value of the or lands and the input of the community with the following sentence the policy

2:15:17record recommendations presented in section six still include the parameters for development

2:15:25so that city staff have the ability to contemplate and control residential or other uses if a

2:15:33proposal of this type were to arrive the public does not want residential or community development

2:15:41commercial development where else in Guelph is there a property with two lakes a heritage river

2:15:48community trails unique stone walls a place to take your whole family including dogs to fish kayak

2:15:56fly kites go rock climbing or have outdoor concerts in the limestone amphitheater bridal

2:16:04parties would not have to stand in front of fake red hearts they can pose on a lovely arched bridge

2:16:11or a beautiful causeway between two lakes allowing residential development on these lands

2:16:19would totally destroy any economic and tourism potential in Kingston penitentiary tours

2:16:27bring in millions of dollars every year to the local community and recent research shows that

2:16:33kids and adults who spend more time in nature are happier and healthier across Canada doctors are

2:16:41now involved in Canada's national evidence-based nature prescription program these lands with

2:16:49their mature forests and extensive open areas offer unique opportunities for time in nature

2:16:56so I ask you as an engaged citizen of Guelph to remove all reference to development from this

2:17:04hcd plan I ask you to follow your own strong statements on citizen engagement and I ask you

2:17:13to listen to citizens reject the staff report recommendations and this unacceptable hcd plan

2:17:22recommendation for residential use thank you great thank you very much and is there a follow-up

2:17:29for Susan countercard thank you very much for your presentation Ms. Radcliffe we heard at the

2:17:40beginning that we are under a timeline that we have until January 1st 2027 to get many of these

2:17:47buildings protected otherwise they they will not have protection I wanted to understand from you

2:17:53if you're calling for us to to reject the plan all right and send it back are you do you feel

2:17:59concerned about the risk of of this then going back and being another year or two and and then

2:18:05leaving those lands without protection once that prevents show deadline lapses I understand we're

2:18:12paying this company a lot of money so surely they could accelerate it all we have to do is take off

2:18:17the second half of the plan that that discusses planning for residential okay and just take it

2:18:26off and the rest is fine okay that's what we ask for thank you to leave the plan but take off

2:18:33the redevelopment section thank you thank you okay thank you councillor Chew okay through you

2:18:39Mr. Mayor thank you Susan for delegating today I'm just trying to hone in on the definitions that

2:18:47are in front of the plans and it doesn't state residential it talks about adaptive reuse are

2:18:53you opposed to any any conception of you know commercial spaces that's kind of reimagined

2:19:01within the footprint of the Ontario Reformatory and and I just ask that because you know I've

2:19:07seen a lot examples like in Seattle where there's a lot of adaptive reuse but you're actually promoting

2:19:12microbreweries and tourism based commercial activities in the space it depends on the kind

2:19:19of adaptive reuse and what kind of preservation there will be Toronto says it has adaptive reuse

2:19:25when it holds up the front wall of a building and builds 20 stories on top of it that's not adaptive

2:19:33reuse so it's a it's a negotiation on what how you can protect 110 year old buildings limestones

2:19:44pretty solid it stands up and so it can be easily reused I agree but that I'm talking about the

2:19:53residential along the very front of the land and up in the area that's all the wetlands that's what

2:20:01it seems to suggest okay I appreciate that thank you great thank you very much I see nothing further

2:20:09appreciate your time thank you sorry for being me that's okay I'll let it go this time

2:20:16all right uh it's uh is it Eva uh Kuchinsky here yeah come on down

2:20:26did I say your last name right that was perfect thank you oh not bad that doesn't happen very often

2:20:31no it does not so thank you thank you very much and you've been here so you heard the spiel no more

2:20:36than five minutes yes time starts when you're ready go right ahead okay thank you you'll notice

2:20:42a similar theme here so good afternoon Mayor Gatherian counselors my name is Eva Kuchinsky

2:20:49and I'm here tonight as a board member of Yorklands Greenhub and also a resident of board too

2:20:55so I'm asking you also to defer approval of the ORHCD plan and to direct staff to remove the

2:21:01residential development provisions in adaptive reuse areas A and B to us the issue is straightforward

2:21:09this plan is being used to introduce residential development where none currently exists and where

2:21:14it doesn't belong the purpose of hcd plans is to ensure cultural heritage value is protected

2:21:21managed and enhanced through managing changes to existing heritage resources not by introducing

2:21:27new land uses that contradict existing zoning and planning documents but that's exactly what's

2:21:33happening here once this plan is approved it establishes residential as an acceptable use

2:21:40once the province sells the land and they will this policy framework will then guide further

2:21:46rezoning decisions the fundamental land use question will already have been answered

2:21:52we understand that the city's intent is that the plan is not changing current zoning just

2:21:57preparing for it if it were to arise but here's the problem residential doesn't conform to the

2:22:04official plan or the GID secondary plan for the area so why are we preparing for a use that

2:22:11isn't currently permitted unless the intent is to enable it through the hcd plan the land use

2:22:18the land use decision will ultimately get made tonight not through tonight or today not through

2:22:24proper public consultation later the community has been clear your own hcd plan acknowledges

2:22:31that numerous comments objected to the proposed residential land use and that the community

2:22:35highly values this green space and recreational character of the property despite this overwhelming

2:22:42feedback these residential provisions remain yorklands has worked for years alongside urban

2:22:47park gulf and hundreds of residents to protect the site you'll hear from brian scarott after me

2:22:54we're united in our goal of permanent protection we support the national urban park initiative

2:22:59as one strong path forward but we're open to any mechanism that achieves the same outcome

2:23:05permanent protection is accessible green space we're asking you to support our vision and not

2:23:10to undermine it i'm going to share why this matters to me personally beyond my role with

2:23:15yorklands i grew up in guelph when the city had a reputation for being green a city that cared

2:23:21about its natural spaces and its parks especially i moved away for a little over 10 years and when

2:23:27i came back it just doesn't feel the same anymore i understand the pressures you're under we need

2:23:35housing we need a new hospital these things are critically important but we're asking you to be

2:23:40strategic about where development happens this we believe this is not the right site this is

2:23:45significant green space heritage landscape natural habitat and trails in the heart of our city these

2:23:51don't come back once they're gone you can't recreate these old stone walls matured tree canopies and

2:23:57aquatic ecosystems once they're developed so on behalf of yorklands and the broader community we

2:24:03represent we're asking you to do something that takes political courage to protect the site not

2:24:08just talk about protecting it in principle while simultaneously enabling its development the city

2:24:14has a real opportunity to champion the site's protection to work with the federal government

2:24:18on the the national urban park initiative or to partner and or to partner with conservation groups

2:24:24to secure this site for current and future residents as the kind of place that makes guelph special

2:24:31so please defer approval of this plan and direct staff to remove the residential provisions

2:24:36focusing exclusively on heritage conservation which is what an hcd plan is supposed to do

2:24:42thank you thank you thank you eva and is there any follow-up questions for eva

2:24:49there is not so thank you very much did you have

2:24:54hi my hand is out sorry i'm sorry eva can you come back for a second sorry councillor clauson

2:25:00i just didn't see you there my apologies um it's probably because of that big bright window behind

2:25:06you you're i didn't see your hand when it was in the window uh go right ahead it's over to you

2:25:12yes uh thank you through you mr. mayor uh to the delegate eva thank you for coming to delegate

2:25:17alongside of your um members at yorklands green green hub and thank you for the work that you've

2:25:25done um for so many years to protect the land my question is around some of the language use

2:25:34it's clear to me that the group is opposed to all residential and including the mention of

2:25:40residential for um the adaptive reuse sites so that part is is really clear to me um if i'm

2:25:47understanding you know staff's intentions with with that policy i i am imagining a world in which

2:25:56the the province sells the land to a developer and it becomes you know they use their own

2:26:05provincial powers to create residential land maybe that wasn't super well said and i'm sorry for that

2:26:11my question is for for the group for you what if we remove all of all the references to residential

2:26:18and we lose that potential opportunity what what would be the next step what would yorklands green

2:26:24hub be doing what would the community from your perspective of course um what what would what would

2:26:30be next so i'm not a planner in terms of my education or work but we're concerned primarily that this

2:26:42opens up the this basically paves the way for so to speak for development and next i think we need to

2:26:50see the all the different there's many conservation groups and many community members that have been

2:26:55working on this for a long time and i think this warrants a conversation for everyone to come

2:26:59together and talk about what is the next step especially if we have the city as a champion

2:27:03on this issue or at least a major supporter i think there's a lot of different groups out

2:27:08there that work that can come at this from different um different views and i think there's a lot of

2:27:15potential for the site okay thank you um i think i think that answers that answers my question

2:27:28and as far as um i don't want to speak too long but as far as the existing plant

2:27:34preserve the heritage buildings you've heard my colleague ask another board member with regard

2:27:39to like preserving that the heritage buildings that are on that site we know that a lot of those

2:27:43buildings are in in in bad shape and um there are concerns about um losing more of them and so i i am

2:27:53wondering around around the timeline like is that something that are there parts of the plan

2:27:58that we want to move forward with to preserve those buildings and will will the suggestions

2:28:04that you made in your delegation will that will that be enough do you want to help me answer this

2:28:13one is it over no is that okay i'm sorry we just yeah our rules don't allow that i'm sorry yeah

2:28:20do you want to restate the question councillor quas and so maybe the delegate can answer

2:28:28and if not that's fine yeah i mean i don't want to leave it open-ended um i i think i think maybe

2:28:37i'll have some some questions for staff with regard uh to to some of the concerns that we're

2:28:42hearing here um and maybe i'll i'll leave this one uh for now okay is there anything else further

2:28:52for this delegate nothing further for real this time so thank you very much for coming thank you

2:28:59all right and brian scarott is here as well coming on down and then is alexander smith here

2:29:05okay perfect so you're in the wings okay thank you and brian your time will start whenever you're

2:29:10ready to okay terrific thank you good afternoon mayor and councillors my name is brian scarott i'm

2:29:16with urban park gulf and i'm delegating to share a concern with the heritage conservation district

2:29:22conservation plan specifically the facilitation of residential development contrary to the gid

2:29:30secondary plan when the draft conservation plan was introduced urban park gulf retained dan schneider

2:29:36heritage consulting for commentary on the plan and his comments were generally positive with one

2:29:42exception the introduction of residential land use and i quote which clearly contemplates new

2:29:48residential building construction and wrestles sometimes uncomfortably with the introduction

2:29:54of new development on the property the most problematic section is section 5.1 development

2:30:02he goes on to say that while an hcd plan trumps other municipal plans in the event of a conflict

2:30:09it is better to avoid such situations what we have here is a situation where the conservation plan

2:30:17is putting itself in conflict with our secondary plan and takes precedence precedence over our own

2:30:23zoning our secondary plan and our official plan the adaptive reuse area in the secondary plan

2:30:30was intended to be employment land the conservation plan however has divided the adaptive reuse area

2:30:36into two zones with specific building height recommendations and adaptive reuse area b is

2:30:43clearly designated residential the conservation plan claims this is designed to contemplate and

2:30:51control residential development adding the caveat if it were to arise without acknowledging that by

2:30:58adding it to this document it is by default being considered it is a self-fulfilling prophecy

2:31:06as to the concept of control adaptive reuse area b has no building height recommendations or

2:31:12restrictions the words if it were to arise are doing a lot of heavy lifting here i've heard it said

2:31:19that this somehow means the conservation plan won't take precedence over the secondary plan

2:31:24but i quote from the Ontario heritage toolkit which is very clear on this once the district plan

2:31:30is adopted its policies and objectives will take precedence in the event of conflict over our

2:31:36municipal existing zoning and other bylaws our zoning bylaw does not identify the area for

2:31:44residential use as you heard from mr. Robinson to consulate the secondary plan identifies

2:31:50adaptive reuse and defines it as institutional educational commercial office light residential

2:31:57open space and park residential is not included in that definition if we introduce residential

2:32:06land use in this plan it is adding a land use that was specifically avoided by previous councils

2:32:12and without the usual process of citizen engagement and commentary on that future use

2:32:18the conservation plan says the gid secondary plan does not identify residential land use

2:32:25since block plan four has not been prepared on the other hand it also says a block plan is required

2:32:31to be developed to specifically implement the policies of the gid secondary plan a block plan

2:32:38is subordinate to the secondary plan and is supposed to conform to the secondary plan not to rewrite

2:32:45it in this instance the secondary plan clearly envisioned a future use it identified the employment

2:32:52lands and even provided an employment target of 750 jobs in block plan area four in the column

2:33:01for residential the secondary plan reads not applicable this conservation plan would not

2:33:08only shift the lands on residential development but throws into question what happens to the

2:33:13anticipated jobs that were supposed to be here urban park wealth is not opposed to residential

2:33:21development being contemplated here it isn't even antithetical to a national urban park

2:33:27we are opposed to rezoning by other means and rewriting the secondary plan through the mechanism

2:33:32of a conservation plan this shouldn't be a forum for a discussion about residential use and

2:33:38amendments to our secondary plan a conservation plan was never intended to replace proper land

2:33:44use planning and importantly consultation introducing residential uses this way deprives

2:33:51citizens of the deliberation public participation and transparency of a zoning by-law change or

2:33:58an official plan amendment we urge council to avoid a planning conflict with our secondary plan

2:34:04and amend the conservation plan to remove residential uses this doesn't mean they can't

2:34:10be contemplated it would mean they're contemplated fully let let him put his microphone back on

2:34:18to say the last sentence one more time thank you mr mayor we mean they're contemplated fully

2:34:23and with due deliberation and public participation perfect i'm not that strict

2:34:33thank you brian um let me see if my colleagues have questions i'll go to i see councillor Allt's

2:34:39hand and councillor Goller okay so alt first please thank you very much mr mayor um i think i'll

2:34:47proceed from the last points raised by mr scarott first of all mr scarott you said that urban park

2:34:55wealth is not opposed to residential but as opposed to rewriting the official plan and yet land

2:35:02use planning so your concern is about um uh municipal democracy would that be correct i would

2:35:09say yes it's about process um we actually haven't had a meeting or a vote on whether we

2:35:17like residential or not in this context uh i think the word contemplate is very specific and

2:35:23that's what i use that i don't i didn't say we either agree with or disagree with residential here

2:35:29but we need to contemplate it specifically in a bigger context okay thank you i think you've

2:35:36answered another one of my questions so i'm just going to actually flip to the start of your presentation

2:35:41there has been discussion and i think that councillor claustin was going to raise the issue

2:35:46of timeline and i don't know whether you have any comments on that or not um if i recall what

2:35:54councillor claustin was inquiring about correctly um it was concerns about other structures being

2:36:01protected i see her nodding um the timelines that mr robinson referred to in the changes in

2:36:11the heritage act as far as i know and you can ask him more specifically uh don't really apply to a

2:36:16heritage conservation district we can uh drop an umbrella of a conservation district over the zone

2:36:22at any time and at that time the the elements within the district get protected it's not like

2:36:30there's a ticking clock waiting and and that we never get a chance to go back i think that's that's

2:36:36my understanding of the process at this point it's it's a little dissimilar to the items that we

2:36:41have on the heritage register uh which will you know disappear from the register but if if anything in

2:36:47the heritage register not unlike we are doing right now with the downtown conservation district

2:36:52or the future ward west conservation district uh if the ward west conservation district doesn't get

2:36:57established in time when it does get established the buildings that get achieve its protection

2:37:05will still be protected thank you and i think it's the last question uh mr mayor through you to

2:37:12mr scott i'm going to forego the specifics of the housing i heard you say that there's not concerns

2:37:19about housing per se but the adaptive reuse is intriguing to me there's been great debate on

2:37:25adaptive reuse in a hospital in this space uh how does this fit into the the notion that you've

2:37:31been presenting for i think about 10 years of an urban park in that area uh you know with due respect

2:37:40councillor this isn't a conversation about the national urban park i think staff was very clear

2:37:45about that um you know i'm happy to have another conversation with anybody here about that but

2:37:51this is about specifically the land use planning in a heritage conservation district and you know

2:37:56urban park wall happens to have a level of expertise on this site and that's why we

2:38:00chosen to delegate to this apologies to you apologies to everybody i think i could have

2:38:06asked that question another way then thank you thank you mr mayor yep no problem thank you councillor

2:38:12uh goller and that's it thank you and through your worship to mr scarrot thank you for your

2:38:17presentation um and um thank you for the letters that you wrote i wanted to go back to the comment

2:38:23that i heard from staff that unless we um include that consideration for a residential if the province

2:38:31next week were to say okay we're going to make it residential and then we're going to sell it to

2:38:35a private developer there would be no protections in place for for the parcel so could you tell me you

2:38:41well my understanding is that if it were sold let's say that the province simply sells it okay there's

2:38:47no caveats they don't make any land use changes if the province sells it to a developer uh the

2:38:54developer and and there was nothing here in the conservation plan to speak to uh protections

2:38:59or development the developer still has to go through due process we have to change the secondary

2:39:06plan we have to change the zoning bylaws and that's where we get the fulsome discussion and the public

2:39:11participation which i think everybody wants so that's part of the the safety mechanism that we see

2:39:18that we're not we're not trying to remove safety mechanisms we're trying to ensure that a they are

2:39:23there and that be the public gets that chance to participate and then the the corollary to that is

2:39:29that if we insert this here it removes all those that that opportunity to participate in that engagement

2:39:38okay i appreciate that thank you great thank you i just one more uh brian from council or

2:39:43richardson please and thank you through you mr mayor too mr scarrett um i agree with you i i think

2:39:50that you know we do want due process and we want it done uh democratically i think part of my concern

2:39:57is that the province has total control and can change the zone change the zoning at any time so

2:40:02they can sell it to a developer change the zoning and i'm concerned that and please correct me if

2:40:09i'm wrong or if you have a different opinion that if we don't have any parameters in there that speaks

2:40:13to residential we would have very little control over that you too um although

2:40:23if the province indeed has that level of control they'll exercise it anyway right they can actually

2:40:31abolish the hergers conservation district they can choose not to to obey any of the rules that we set

2:40:37out so what we do really by introducing it here there's a concept called anticipatory obedience

2:40:45and uh you know this is this is planning for something and we're anticipating

2:40:49that this is going to come down so we're going to obey and and put this into the

2:40:52the conservation plan even though we we know it doesn't belong even though it creates conflict

2:40:58with our own planning documents seeing nothing further thank you very much thank you and last is

2:41:07uh alexander smith who's coming on down thank you your worship counselors staff members of the public

2:41:37i'm grateful for an opportunity to make some brief submissions i want to begin by

2:41:43acknowledging that the reformatory plan is largely an excellent excellent document

2:41:50but in my respectful submission it contains a serious flaw that is the inclusion of residential

2:41:57development in the plan the plan acknowledges the feedback from the public express concerns with

2:42:06the inclusion of residential land use within the adaptive reuse area that concern was loud and

2:42:15unanimous i note parenthetically that every written submission received by council for today

2:42:21today's discussion raised the same concern how did the reformatory hcd plan respond to these

2:42:29concerns it doubled down on the inclusion of residential development by elevating it from

2:42:36a potential land use on a list to a recommended land use in the present iteration staff takes

2:42:46the position that by approving the report as prevented presented council will not be making

2:42:53a land use planning decision rather the plan includes and i quote parameters for development

2:43:00so that city staff have the ability to contemplate and control residential or other uses if a

2:43:08proposal of this type were to arise with the greatest of respect that position is naive in

2:43:15the extreme not only does the inclusion of residential development in the adaptive reuse

2:43:22areas inform any future planning decision by council it also constrains future planning

2:43:30decisions having recommended residential development as an adaptive reuse council can

2:43:38hardly resist an application to approve a residential zoning in the reformatory hcd if the city reaches

2:43:47the conclusion at some future date that residential development is not appropriate in the reformatory

2:43:54hcd because it is not compatible with the preserve preservation of the cultural heritage assets

2:44:02that the city is protected under part four of the heritage act or for general zoning reasons

2:44:10the reformatory hcd plan as written will prevent the city from mounting a credible legal argument

2:44:17that no portion of the reformatory hcd should be zoned residential approving this plan with the

2:44:25inclusion of a recommendation for residential development as potential land use will represent

2:44:32number one bad planning the reformatory hcd plan is intended to and i quote ensure that the cultural

2:44:41heritage value or interest of the anterior reformatory is protected managed maintained

2:44:47and enhanced over time introduction of a land a new land use residential in the cultural heritage

2:44:56plan is bad planning particularly when the city has already had a land use planning document the gid

2:45:05secondary plan that does not approve residential development within the area now identified as the

2:45:12proposed reformatory heritage conservation district if you decide to change the proposed land use

2:45:20that decision should be made through the land use planning process not through the cultural heritage

2:45:27protection process and i should say the staff suggestion that if you do not control

2:45:36residential development through the plan it will be vault you won't will not be able to control it

2:45:44in the future in my respectful submission is fallacious you will still have the land the same

2:45:51land use planning and zoning tools that you have to any residential development secondly

2:45:59it shows lack of due diligence there are foreign theory hcd plan consents no analysis as to why

2:46:06the residential development should be included in the adaptive reuse areas as no analysis of the

2:46:12impact that residential development will have on the cultural assets as such it provides a

2:46:19perilous record to defend any decision council may make and finally i would urge that you amend

2:46:26the report by deleting the reference to residential development and approving it and that can be

2:46:35thank you sir thank you i appreciate that that can be done very easily by revising two barographs

2:46:44in section five and one heading and in my respectful submission could be done very quickly indeed

2:46:51thank you sir is there any questions for this delicate at all uh seeing and hearing none thank

2:46:58you very much thank you okay everyone it's back to us and um just at the very least can i ask

2:47:10someone to at least just move the recommendation so richardson and galler has moved the recommendation

2:47:17and you know what i just wouldn't mind just for a moment i'm putting you on the spot i

2:47:23didn't even give you a heads up but to our planning staff and and maybe to our consultant as well i

2:47:30think the the issue in the room is what we're hearing from the delegations and the and some of

2:47:35the questions that are coming from my colleagues around this residential issue so would you like

2:47:41to respond to that first before questions go to council please and if you don't want to that's

2:47:49fine just tell me i'll go to questions but guess what i can guarantee one of them's gonna ask anyways

2:47:54so anybody want to respond thank you uh merica three um so yes it's absolutely a complicated

2:48:05issue and we have had the provision for residential in this hcd um it was an is staff's belief that

2:48:14ensuring that we have a heritage conservation district that anticipates it was the prudent

2:48:20thing for staff to bring forward um it is known that this whole plan is not applicable to the

2:48:26province um if the province was to sell the land and we have no indication currently that they are

2:48:34although i think it's very well known that they previously had this land up for sale so if it was

2:48:41sold given this recent changes to the planning legislation i would suspect it would come with

2:48:46it with a minister zoning order and the zoning would be in place um it was staff's desire to

2:48:52ensure that we had policies that would protect any type of future land use in the heritage

2:48:58conservation district so that's why we do have it in there if contemplated um if the province

2:49:03sold the land without an mz or any conditions um then there's the standard planning process first

2:49:11you have to do the block plan similarly similar to what was brought before council recently on

2:49:16gid one and two with here's our overall concept plan and then they would come back with this is

2:49:21the official plan request and zoning request so um if it's a traditional process process excellent

2:49:28but if it's not a traditional process i believe staff have ensured that we have heritage protections

2:49:34for the uses that are there too in the natural landscapes as they go forward any future development

2:49:39would have to do a comprehensive plan they'd have to look you know we we heard comments about the

2:49:44natural environment you'd have to do an eis and ensure you know where those you know final lines are

2:49:50so all of that would have to happen but it could come forward with uh with a different land use

2:49:55and staff wanted to ensure that we had covered that that off i did like the the term that you

2:50:03know mr scarrett used the uh anticipatory obedience um but in this day and age i i do think it's a fair

2:50:11a fair comment for us across the across the river um we did have a change by the province

2:50:18in land use in height in density and um we so yes so yes we put it in there as a consideration if

2:50:25considered um it does not mean it has to happen um you know we also could see uh on those lands to

2:50:33you know as it went forward we could see a fulfillment center like a large industrial

2:50:38fulfillment center would also be permitted on those lands if it went through again the traditional

2:50:43process or come forward as an as an m zero so um yes we have put that in there and i was purposeful

2:50:52and we are planning for what could come down the pipe in the future and depending what path um

2:50:58it goes forward if it's sold then um i feel that we've covered off this the city's interests and

2:51:05the heritage conservation policies which is is truly what this is about um if it's retained by the

2:51:10province um it it's not applicable and is um was indicated by by staff that you know the the province

2:51:17is looking at removing a few other of the um buildings on that site and that may continue as well

2:51:26thank you before i go to go to council or all just after this as a follow-up if you don't mind then

2:51:31so um what's the i'm trying to get i think to another part of the the question which is

2:51:39um so thank you for the response to what you've heard from our delegates but

2:51:42um give us give us the scenario then if residential is removed if council decides right now to remove

2:51:50residential and then the province does um do what you said um then the impacts to that land

2:52:01from us from a like a tool or a mechanism point of view would be what would happen then so thank

2:52:09thank you mr mayor for that follow-up um so without having the contemplated uh residential the policy

2:52:16we do we'd have no residential policies in a heritage conservation district if it were to become

2:52:20residential and the heritage conservation policies are not applicable to that particular use

2:52:31meaning it's much easier i'm sorry just trying to so meaning meaning what then i mean if uh

2:52:37development came forward with an mz o from the province like with policies in place

2:52:42then the hcd would not apply if it was residential okay thank you uh i'll go to councillor Allt first

2:52:51and then uh and then councillor Goller please thank you very much mayor guthrie um i think my question

2:52:57or questions are um short but the answers might be longer um miss walkey uh through you mr mayor

2:53:05and miss walkey um the statement was made that its staff's belief that this is a more appropriate

2:53:13approach um i have to ask you a question because what i'm hearing in state is this is for all

2:53:20intents and purposes a calculated gamble and i'm looking at what kind of certitude is there in

2:53:28what staff has recommended in the resolution uh before i make a decision yeah through through

2:53:37the mayor councillor Allt um i don't think it was a calculated gamble from staff's perspective i think

2:53:46it was um if you want to use the word calculated a calculated decision to ensure we had protected

2:53:52against what could happen in there to ensure the long protect long term protection of the heritage

2:53:59resources that are there uh the structures as well as the natural landscape i'm sorry if you thought

2:54:07i was suggesting staff made the calculated gamble it was it was me who was going to make the

2:54:12calculated gamble based on staff's belief i apologize for that the the the next question

2:54:18that comes from there and it's the only one that i have from what i understand of this land

2:54:23this will be terrifically challenging to to convert into residential for a myriad of reasons

2:54:30um uh toxicity and and bottom land uh i stand to be corrected and i guess i'm asking you to

2:54:37correct or confirm for me yeah through the mayor so we do know there are some can there is existing

2:54:47contamination on site and i think the province is looking at that now and that's why they're proposing

2:54:51to remove a couple of the buildings so we do know that we also know that there is the like creed

2:54:58sub-buttershed and that work that's going on so there are environmental impacts as well

2:55:02but there is land on our portions of the rather large area that could have development of of

2:55:09various sorts as um in the future thank you very much thank you gollar please

2:55:19thank you through your worship uh just before you continue i see you as well

2:55:23councillor Caton you'll be next okay go ahead thank you and and thank you to to staff and to all

2:55:29the community that has provided input into this into this plan i thought that the plan clearly

2:55:35articulated all the comments against the residential and um and what i'm trying to understand here is

2:55:43if the province issues the ministerial sort of order and says this is now residential

2:55:50what exactly does that mean does that mean that none of the plan the whole document goes out the

2:55:56window and then there's no protections for any natural or any of the uh it's like either natural

2:56:02or the built heritage features is that what we're saying uh through through the mayor to the to the

2:56:09councillor in fact almost almost the opposite so if if we keep the residential provisions in and the

2:56:16province happened to do an MZO for a residential then the heritage policies and the heritage

2:56:20conservation districts still apply but if we move a motion and say take residential mention out

2:56:27then then what would happen then there are no heritage conservation policies related to the

2:56:33residential uh there are some policies still related to the open space and natural environment

2:56:38so those are still applicable but there would be nothing specific for residential on these lands

2:56:46okay so and then so that i understand with a ministerial sorting order would there be any

2:56:52other processes that come back to the city or would that allow a developer then to

2:56:57submit a building permit to tear down some of the historically protected buildings

2:57:04and because we didn't include the words residential they would not be protected is that is that correct

2:57:16yeah through the mayor to the councillor so the properties that are designated already the part

2:57:21for designation those would keep their heritage status so if a developer wanted to remove one of

2:57:27those buildings it would come to council for one of those buildings but depending on the contents

2:57:35of the the MZO and if it's very detailed if you know height stepbacks um four plates parking

2:57:44it may be able to go right to site plan unless they're proposing to remove one of the designated

2:57:49structures okay that council did in 2021 okay okay thank you for that clarification

2:57:54um one of the other comments that was raised by by some of the delegates was that the

2:58:00heritage conservation district plan takes precedence over other planning documents

2:58:05so if there was no ministerial sorting order and the province sold us out we approve the plan as

2:58:13has been presented by by the consultant and by staff would the inclusion of the words

2:58:20residential not mean that when an application comes forward we would have to adapt the official plan

2:58:27because it contemplates residential through through the mayor to councillor Goller

2:58:38I you began your question with the um the reference to the the situation where there's a conflict

2:58:46between the heritage district plan well that that that it takes precedence over the official plan

2:58:54right so if it's residential is contemplated in the in the conservation district plan then when

2:59:00someone applies for a permit to build residential even though it's not in the official plan we have

2:59:06to say yes because it's been contemplated in the conservation district plan through the mayor to

2:59:12councillor Goller I think it's important to point out in the Ontario Heritage Act in section 41 of

2:59:19part five which is the section dealing with heritage conservation district plans and if if

2:59:25you'll allow me I'd like to read out one sentence from the legislation it's it's from section 41.2

2:59:34and it's it's in um subsection two of that it's entitled conflict in the event of a conflict between

2:59:44heritage conservation district plan and a municipal bylaw that affects the designated

2:59:51district the plan prevails to the extent of the conflict but in all other respects the bylaw remains

2:59:57in full force so in the Ontario Heritage Act there actually is no reference to the heritage district

3:00:03plan trumping an official plan or a secondary plan within that OP I just wanted to clarify that

3:00:13it does have precedence over a bylaw and as we all know the zoning bylaw is one of our biggest

3:00:20bylaws um yeah and sorry mr. mayor if I may add to that too so if there wasn't no if there was not

3:00:27an MZO issue there is provisions in our official plan like you have to come forward with the block

3:00:31plan then they would have to come forward with the official plan amendment and zoning bylaw

3:00:36with that there'd have to be you know the planning justification reports to support whatever type of

3:00:41land use so at that time council would consider the land use so the HCD does not give permissions

3:00:48for residential um it if it can't it contemplates what it could happen but it does not give

3:00:54permission so the permissions would either come from the minister or from a development

3:01:00application that would come before council okay I I appreciate that I appreciate that so just to

3:01:08be clear that the inclusion of the word residential as a potential adapted reuse does not mean that it

3:01:16does not establish residential as an acceptable use short and sweet that is correct okay okay um yeah

3:01:26no that that is that is really helpful um that that is yeah I really appreciate it thank you thank

3:01:32you worship okay great last year I have councillor Caton please and then closet thank you through

3:01:40you mr. mayor um so most of my questions regarding the resident residential have been

3:01:47answered so thank you on that one um I have some questions about the ponds in the creek

3:01:56so with the city's natural heritage plan overriding the heritage just a conservation district plan

3:02:04could the decision be made to drain the ponds or straighten the creek in future

3:02:09without a heritage permit or heritage golf review or would those follow let's fall under

3:02:15requiring a review through the mayor to the counselor it's uh it's important to understand

3:02:28the the difference between a proposed intervention or a proposed change within a heritage district

3:02:36it's important to understand if it's can if it should be considered repair or maintenance

3:02:41uh because most in most situations maintenance is does not require the approval of a heritage

3:02:48permit whether you're talking about an individually designated property like 785 York Road or a

3:02:56property that's designated within a district however if if the intervention is reviewed and

3:03:02it and it's determined that that intervention would really change the characteristics or the

3:03:08heritage attributes of of what's being protected that's seen more as it could be seen as a major

3:03:15as an alteration or major alteration or in some cases it could be seen as a removal or even a

3:03:23demolition though all those situations do require review by heritage staff obviously but also review

3:03:31by the heritage advisory committee and approval either by the general manager of planning or

3:03:38in some situations as in demolition approval by council so there there is kind of a scale

3:03:45that's already as well established with all of the protected heritage properties that we have

3:03:50across the city and and within our one heritage just I'm sorry our two heritage districts in in

3:03:56our city but if the question is whether changing the nature of the ponds substantially in a way

3:04:08that that equals an alteration or removing them or draining them that that is definitely

3:04:13something that would be major enough to require the approval of a heritage permit under the

3:04:19appropriate section of the Heritage Act great thank you and when we're done questions circle

3:04:26back to me please mr. mayor you got I got two more questions then happy to come back to you

3:04:33looks like I now have three more questions clausen richardson gipson yes thank you

3:04:41through you mr. mayor um to staff I believe that my question is is restating councillor

3:04:48galler's question in my words um and so please bear with me I understand where the public is coming

3:04:57from with regard to the concerns around residential uses and I also at the same time understand

3:05:03staff's argument for maintaining it within the within the hcd so my question is my intention

3:05:16as a as a city councillor in supporting this hcd is that this land be maintained for public use as

3:05:23as conservation land and for public use as much as possible and that's what my intention was when

3:05:30I supported the urban park initiative and that's what I want to do when I'm supporting this this

3:05:37hcd and so my question is is if we support the hcd with the residential uses in it

3:05:45is there a concern that in the future that could be interpreted by the provincial government or

3:05:53other legal entities as as a recommendation that that's what this council wanted to do

3:06:07through the mayor to the the councillor so we absolutely appreciate the intent to maintain it

3:06:14maintain it as open space or parkland or or conservation area however this council is not

3:06:21the owner of those lands the provincial government is the owner and has the final say on what happens

3:06:28to the future of those lands so I just not to be clear on that that we as staff are not able to

3:06:35make those recommendations or changes and I can only go on in the you know certainly in the past

3:06:42when the government had offered it up for sale and it was for sale as as residential development

3:06:48so that is where staff are coming from and it's you know trying to be strategic and forward

3:06:54thinking on what could happen there and to ensure we have policies that protect the site as much as

3:06:59possible and allow us to be able to comment on those policies as we move forward the question was

3:07:06asked of of staff you know what what act kind of overrides the other act so if we happen to get a

3:07:16minister's owning order it was sold for for residential land the heritage policies still apply

3:07:22and the minister of municipal affairs is is not amending those the province can make changes to

3:07:28the site before it's sold but once it's sold then the policies that the municipality have are in

3:07:35in in force and effect okay thank you for that it sort of answers my question but I

3:07:53think that I will reiterate that as a councillor and as a councillor and I hope you'll indulge me

3:08:00with this Mr. Mayor is that when and if I support this it is with the clear intent for this land

3:08:11to be for conservation and public use as intended and and I can I can leave it at that for now

3:08:19um and I need to just reflect on the information that you've just shared with me so thank you

3:08:26thank you uh councillor Cawson so Richardson and then uh Gibson and then I'd like I think we need

3:08:32to we need to circle to uh you know to a move forward position here I haven't forgotten about you

3:08:38as well uh councillor Keaton okay so Richardson then Gibson and thank you um through you Mayor

3:08:45to staff and I know you can see how much we're struggling with this and that we really want

3:08:50to get it right because we all want to protect uh those lands as much as we can so two staff um

3:08:57probably Ms. Walkie if I'm understanding it correctly if residential use is already contemplated

3:09:03in the HCD plan the province will actually have less jurisdiction to override the heritage controls

3:09:10is that correct thank you councillor Richardson I may have to have you

3:09:26ask it in maybe a different way um yes maybe so there seems to be an innate risk if we don't

3:09:33and and as councillor Cawson said our intent with having residential in there is not to support

3:09:39residential but to be preemptive so that if it does get rezoned by an MZO that we're looking

3:09:47to have some protection in there so that we have some controls to uh you'd be able to have input

3:09:54into what's actually done on those lands so by having it in there it's actual that's what I'm

3:09:59saying it's actually um giving us more controls through the Heritage Act but not through the planning

3:10:06act through the mayor of the council so yes uh councillor Richardson that is is correct and

3:10:13Mr. Mayor if I may just councillor Cawson at the end commented that again she wants to protect

3:10:20this is conservation land um I do have to remind council that the large you know blue swath covering

3:10:29up the majority of the site is already adaptive reuse and adaptive reuse um in the official plan

3:10:35and the secondary plan recognizing you have to go through other planning mechanisms

3:10:40included institutional education commercial office light industrial open space and park

3:10:44so yes open space or park were there but so were the other uses and you know we talked about a

3:10:49large fulfillment center or something that is also could be contemplated on those lands so it's

3:10:55it's not one or the other it could be a combination of both so I just wanted to clarify that

3:11:03okay I am I'm sorry I should have written it down I believe it's Gibson

3:11:08yep yeah thank you and then I'm going to go right to Keaton after you okay Gibson go ahead yep

3:11:13just to clarify a commitment I made to the delegate about asking about the York Road project

3:11:18the redevelopment of York Road was rescoped a few years ago I think the budget for it was

3:11:23almost taken down by half to no longer require four lanes and I think I believe in talking to staff

3:11:30that remove the necessity to realign Clathford can I just have staff confirm that through mayor

3:11:36got through to Councillor Gibson yes that's correct with the rescoping from four lanes

3:11:41in the previous I'm going to say 2024 budget cycle the realignment of Clath Creek is no longer

3:11:46contemplated in that scope thanks very much I appreciate it okay so thank you for clearing

3:11:57that up I think that was actually a very important question I had nothing to do with the residential

3:12:01part but but there was you know there were people rightly asking by the way but completely

3:12:07rightly asking about like what's going on with this piece along along the road and the creek and

3:12:13so very important to get that that factual information out there Terry thank you for doing that

3:12:19okay Councillor Keaton I think so we have the main motion on the floor and I think you're looking

3:12:25at presenting an option for an amendment Councillor Keaton please yes thank you

3:12:31if uh Thurks could throw it up on the screen please I like to move that staff remove mentions

3:12:41and provisions for residential development from the Ontario Reformatory Heritage Conservation

3:12:45District Plan and guidelines included is at attachment two of the staff report and that staff

3:12:51bring the amended Ontario Reformatory Heritage Conservation District Plan and guidelines

3:12:55and subsequent bylaw to a future council meeting for approval and my my reasoning behind this

3:13:02is I just just one second I need to find a seconder which I have found in Councillor Goller

3:13:09okay so now you can go for it go for it speak to it thank you um I I totally I understand what

3:13:16staff is trying to do here I really do and I I recognize it and I I don't think they're complying

3:13:22in advance I think that what they're asking for is is reasonable given um the actions of the province

3:13:31and what we've just seen from our current government it doesn't seem unreasonable to me

3:13:36but I also think that this is the wrong place for residential and I think that we should be

3:13:42strongly opposed to it in all of our plans and to the province and to very clearly state to them

3:13:52that that's not the right place for that and um I I don't necessarily think it's the right place

3:13:58for the adaptive reuse either but that's not um there's already in our plans and potentially we

3:14:04can look at that later uh but I also think that right beside Carville and the Waste Processing

3:14:12Center is not a place for residential I don't think that this would be glorious mansions I think

3:14:17this would end up being you know low-income housing that could not complain about the environment

3:14:23that they're living in and I think that it's the wrong place for it and even with the provisions

3:14:31to help the heritage attributes in that area we still wouldn't be helping the people who would

3:14:40end up there and I I just think it's the wrong thing to do so that's why I'd like to remove the

3:14:47uh mentions of residential in this plan thanks okay no problem thank you for explaining your

3:14:53position on that is there any questions of staff on the amendment that's in front of us

3:15:00no problem councillor Goller again only questions of staff only on the amendments that are in front

3:15:05of us go ahead thank you and through your worship to staff um I understand that uh it was the the

3:15:13staff recommendation that there would be two causes I'm trying to understand why would you would

3:15:20want us to have this come back as opposed to making the change to remove residential and

3:15:25then approving it tonight through the mayor to the councillor so we are we're suggesting it come back

3:15:35so council can take a look at it council could just ask us to remove all reference to residential

3:15:40and bring back the bylaw so the bylaw is not in a position to go forward tonight

3:15:43okay thank you and and what would be the the timeline uh for staff to bring back

3:15:50the uh the plan and the bylaw through the mayor to the council it would be it be some time in

3:16:01q2 there's a fair amount to update the documents get them aod8 and a fair bit of polishing that

3:16:07would need to be done again okay but it would be this year yes okay thank you so much thank you

3:16:12worship and I just asked my council colleagues to to to listen to what the community's saying and I

3:16:18I really appreciate and I I'm grateful for for staff's advice to prepare for the eventuality of

3:16:25a ministerial zoning order but I do do hear the concerns from the community that by included

3:16:30in the document we're putting it out there that you know at some level there's some support for

3:16:34residential so if we remove it all together I think it does send a stronger message as

3:16:38councillor Caton said that we do not want to contemplate residential in this area at all

3:16:45great thank you very much for your opinions as well any any other comments before I call the

3:16:51vote then on the amendment please all right Gibson and then uh uh clausen yeah thank you

3:16:59through mr mayor all my comments will be brief I just I'm struggling with the language and even

3:17:04contemplation of residential when I I've proved to see voters to support the national urban park

3:17:10initiative so I'll be wanting to remove a residential from the language in the in the document

3:17:17thank you and clausen please and then uh and then how's her yes thank you through you mr

3:17:24mayor to staff I do have I do have a question um I am my question is with regard to the adaptive

3:17:34reuse area so thank you um miss walkie uh for the for the clarity with regard to the the heritage

3:17:42buildings and the recommendations for adaptive reuse there are a lot of structures that are

3:17:49recommended for protection and I wanted to clarify that um what no I think I think I'm I think I'm

3:17:59going to pause I I'm not going to ask that question and I'm I'm going to just pull pull

3:18:04up and pull my uh my question off the floor and let my vote uh support this or not thanks okay no no

3:18:11problem no problem thank you and how's her please thank you um through the mayor to staff I'm just

3:18:18going to double back and I just would like a clear explanation of what happens if the province says

3:18:25okay it's residential now and we have nothing I know you've talked about this but with this exact

3:18:31wording could you just tell us where what would we be looking at through the mayor to

3:18:43counselor howzer it would leave us with with less to less tools to use less power to negotiate

3:18:55in an environment that would likely be a very difficult time to negotiate uh it's and as well

3:19:04I'd like to reiterate what I said in my opening comments but also what's actually in the plan

3:19:09itself is that the that the resident the suggestion or recommendation of residential land use it

3:19:17it it is limited to the adaptive reuse area b that's the dark blue area

3:19:25behind largely behind the administration building so it's really I mean if if we could

3:19:31if you don't mind I simplifying it I do refer often to the front yard and the front yard we're

3:19:37recommending be uh open space and park the backyard this is really where where our recommendation

3:19:45is remains that residential should be considered as one option but not necessarily the preferred option

3:19:55in the event that re that a minister's zoning comes in it would give us some capability to

3:20:04to help guide what come what comes and just thank you for that just to follow up could I

3:20:15ask a question about the area that uh councillor caton did remind us of where the residential if

3:20:21it was residential or adaptive use is it that area that's over by where cargo in the waste

3:20:27everything is over there not it's we're not talking about like the park area the front yard

3:20:35through the mayor to counselor howzer uh that the adaptive reuse area b is quite a large area

3:20:44it's really in the overlay which we've presented as plate eight in the the Harris district plan

3:20:51it essentially is the dark blue area which equals about half of the adaptive reuse area

3:20:57and it's behind or let's say to the southeast of the main block of reformatory buildings

3:21:05and yes it is between that block of buildings and cargill and the city's facility

3:21:11hoping that answers your question thank you for clarifying all right chew please councillor chew

3:21:22thank you through you mr. mayor um i i chris so we have our our our bi-monthly check-ins all the

3:21:29time and you talk about how much extensive work you guys you and staff put into this

3:21:34body of work can you just confirm to me that the the essence of this work is to protect

3:21:42as much heritage provisions as possible so we can so when the province goes through the Heritage

3:21:50Act separate from the planning act there's a lot more checks and balances that allows us to

3:21:58define the characteristics for any future on this site is that a good characterization

3:22:08through the mayor to the counselor so yes that is so staff we're trying to ensure we looked at

3:22:14any future scenario and be strategic in putting those scenarios forward if if the province chose

3:22:20to do something um you know the whole plan is not applicable as long as it's in the provincial

3:22:26ownership but it's if they chose to dispose of it that we had looked at all all alternatives that

3:22:32may come our way and and just a follow-up because i know you guys put a lot of work studying this

3:22:39are there any comparator municipalities you guys have looked at that are using this avenue of

3:22:45of just really fine tuning your process through the Heritage Act so we can again provide as much

3:22:55protection as we can is this something other places are doing and just within your professional

3:23:01networks thank you for your question like yes we have looked at other scenarios um i think going

3:23:12back to uh steven you had mentioned when we went back to revisit this and take into account the

3:23:18comments we received from the community and the different perspectives as well as staff's goals

3:23:23to protect and be able to have a say in what whatever may come our way um this was set definitely

3:23:31top of mind um i think what's uh there's been a lot of discussion but really want to reiterate

3:23:39that that adaptive reuse area a the front yard the recommendation is now for that to be open

3:23:45space in park as the preferred land use from a cultural heritage perspective because we know

3:23:50how valuable that is to the community but again looking at that the big section of buildings

3:23:55that are we've already noted a few times are in disuse they're empty um what could happen there

3:24:03i think that was the question from a heritage conservation perspective um we have looked at

3:24:07other municipalities other similar types of developments um you know there's the distillery

3:24:14district in toronto brickworks which is another industrial site which is a really thriving community

3:24:19hub like there are really fantastic examples of adaptive reuse not necessarily residential

3:24:26some of them do include residential where the buildings are are wonderful places for people

3:24:31to go in they're not for private developments the public still has access to them but those

3:24:36different land uses are integrated in a way that's really interesting and it makes the space usable

3:24:41and i think that's a big risk um just being a heritage consultant disuse and empty buildings are

3:24:48just it's it's demolition by neglect they're such at risk so i think use here you know any

3:24:54type of adaptive reuse that concerns the heritage attributes is a big win actually and so that's why

3:25:00the adaptive reuse area b is really focused where those disused buildings are located and we're not

3:25:08saying this whole site is going to be residential like that's not the intent here if you look at that

3:25:13plate a or sorry plate eight i believe it was where we went back and we mapped out the heritage

3:25:19attributes we put on and overlaid the adaptive reuse area and then we actually shrunk it even more

3:25:26to be like okay this is highly valued as an open space area we've heard that from the community

3:25:32so that is a recommendation from a heritage perspective and also to respond to the community

3:25:38but hey this other area adaptive reuse area b we have a lot of buildings that are in disuse

3:25:44which could be great candidates for commercial institutional or maybe some residential i'm not

3:25:50sure but just having those provisions in there give something should something come our way

3:25:55that there will be some controls and oversights and checks and balances to deal with it so that's

3:26:00the intention and it is a conservation and a protection first it's just contemplating of sort

3:26:06of wider trying to give some broader tools for if this comes our way thank you i appreciate that

3:26:12and we want to empower you with with as many tools as possible i'm not sure if you're aware but is

3:26:19city of kincston kind of doing something similar as well currently and if you might have any knowledge

3:26:26on that i'm just throwing it out in the air if you don't it's okay no no problem i'm not familiar

3:26:31with that one i'm sorry yeah okay um maybe just some comments but to be honest with you i think

3:26:37we have to support our staff they we have probably the most dedicated heritage planners and heritage

3:26:43team uh in in all the municipalities that i've i've come across in my professional network

3:26:50this is a pragmatic uh decision and i understand there's a lot of politics attached to definitions

3:26:57but we have to be we cannot be dogmatic here there's a lot of work that went into this

3:27:03and and i know chris that talks about this all the time with me so i think we have to

3:27:08acknowledge the authority that the province has whether we like the government or not

3:27:13understand that there are areas within the heritage act the legislation of the heritage

3:27:20act that we need to we need to utilize tools through so that we're not just caught in the middle

3:27:28with nothing to hold against because the mzdo overrides everything within the planning act

3:27:35and we have if we have no no no work or framework that governs these lands then nothing happens

3:27:41so i think it's important for us to recognize the significance of this body of work that staff

3:27:46have put forward understand this is a very pragmatic decision that comes from very good

3:27:51intentions and i think we could argue that in the public realm but we have i believe we have to

3:27:58help our staff here because it's a lot of work that will go to waste if we don't do anything

3:28:03that's just my comments thank you okay i would like to call the vote but i'm not going to because

3:28:11i saw two more hands go up counts are katin and then billings you get council billings covers

3:28:19because it just says the mover i was like to have a final comment before we vote sounds good i will

3:28:25allow that billings and then katin please so through you mr. mayor to staff uh when we were

3:28:34dealing with this issue a while ago i uh you know read the report and made a comment at council with

3:28:39respect to i felt that staff were going to bring back um residential within the plan and another

3:28:47member of council uh anyways was upset and and questioned christa with with respect to that

3:28:54issue and and christa you mentioned that oh no that's not necessarily true that we would be bringing

3:29:00back uh residential within the plan the reason why i was opposed to residential in the plan because

3:29:07a few years ago i inquired with planning staff and that planner is no longer with the city about

3:29:13residential on these lands and the comment was that they weren't supportive because there can be um

3:29:23an odor from time to time in this in this area and so that staff wouldn't um uh recommend uh

3:29:31residential so i was wondering christa if you could comment on on this issue because that planner

3:29:37was very clear to me uh a number of years ago through the mayor to to council billings so the

3:29:46the property is is quite long and there's there is quite a distance from um the processing plant

3:29:55but any residential development would have to do a noise and odor study that would have to

3:30:04determine what the setback is from that avatar that we do have um on the land so they would have to

3:30:10do that um but there is probably a for sure there is potential for for residential there i don't know

3:30:17what the setback would be out of that study um but they would have to do a study to determine what

3:30:22the what the setback is okay um and then from everything else through you mr. mayor that you've

3:30:29said i want to drill down the province can do whatever they want right now they can remove

3:30:35whatever they want right now can they not you know and i'm talking in this area uh the redacted

3:30:42reuse area for residential or possible residential they could do whatever they wanted to make their

3:30:49land more valuable if they're if they are going to sell it correct is that correct or am i wrong

3:30:56uh through the mayor to the councillor so uh yes they can within reason they can't you know move a

3:31:06creek or alter some of the the natural features but they can remove the buildings yes um yes they

3:31:12they could yeah that's what i meant the the buildings in order to make their land more valuable

3:31:18to to sell okay thank you christa all right thanks councillor billings uh kateen as the mover uh

3:31:26you're gonna bring us home thank you so much for indulging me um so i know i've talked about it

3:31:33before y'all know that i'm a person who has environmental sensitivities i am the hound dog

3:31:37on council i can smell everything it is not fun um and that includes cargill you know from most

3:31:47locations uh that i've walked on that property and and as much as you know there would be environmental

3:31:55impact studies and everything else the the likelihood that that would end up as low income

3:32:00housing for people with disabilities who potentially have more sensitivities that would not necessarily

3:32:04like i've had to field so many issues with folks who have my disabilities in terms of proximity

3:32:13and everything else i i just think that even though it is a kind of a wraparound piece and that's

3:32:22not staff's intent i know it's not i just think it's too big of a signal and uh i think that it

3:32:32is outside of what we've already approved in these plans and that any amount of indication is going to

3:32:40signal that we would be okay and we wouldn't fight this as a council and so i would prefer we don't

3:32:45have that in there um because i think that it kind of goes against what we've already decided

3:32:52and i think it's not in the best interest of anyone to have residential in that area thanks

3:32:59okay no no problem thank you for tabling it that's what the debate in the the horseshoe here is for

3:33:06so i am going to call the vote on on these two does anyone want them separated

3:33:12okay i'm not suggesting that i just wanted to know so okay we'll keep them the same

3:33:16and uh yeah so to me this comes down to to protect or not to protect and i'm going to vote to protect

3:33:25because we've heard it like seven times till sunday that our staff have said if you want more

3:33:30protection we've got to have this noted in there okay so i'm not going to support what's in front of

3:33:38us by councillor Caton because i want to protect more i want to have levers that our staff can

3:33:47protect more and so uh that is exactly where my vote's going to land because i want to actually

3:33:54protect uh these these attributes especially um it's been very clear really the to me anyways it

3:34:02comes to be very clear it is a choice do you want extra protections or do you not that's basically

3:34:08what this vote is for me so with that i'll call the vote those against the amendments raise your

3:34:14hand please all right so we've got boosted till richardson got three and two okay by the way you'll

3:34:26notice how i said people's names out loud there that's very important when taking votes we'll talk

3:34:31about that later in the agenda okay so your amendment passes so um clerks if we go back

3:34:41to the main motion now we're good to call the main motion as amended but but are we uh

3:34:48you're good with that uh thank you miss marron through you to you um we'll get it up on screen here

3:34:55just to note clause number one very similar to what was in the staff recommendation although as

3:35:01amended there and then clause two and three are the motions for council katens amendment would just

3:35:06pass which uh replaces clause two in the staff recommendation yeah did everyone understand that

3:35:14okay so it's as it's as on the screen then okay so i and hold on oh oh oh as much as everyone likes

3:35:26to see me on the screen can you put that back up thank you okay so i will uh i will call the vote on

3:35:47this because of the amendment i will not be supporting this now um so that's just just to make

3:35:55that uh my position pretty clear on that one whatever anybody else wants to do so be it um

3:36:01before the vote is taken i just will say i got a vent this is the most complicated piece of land

3:36:12ever i mean what are we doing it's an urban park oh well maybe not an urban park because maybe it's

3:36:23going to have some some other stuff over here i mean our official plan still it's still real

3:36:28but it's an urban park but we want heritage stuff here but maybe not this and oh by the way the

3:36:37province owns it they could do whatever the heck they want in an instant i mean literally at 6 30

3:36:45today there could be an announcement that the province is like leveling the whole place and yet

3:36:52i will just say that this whole thing is in front of us right now when all of those things were being

3:36:59juggled in the air and i remember asking staff like why are we sending staff away to do all of this

3:37:06work when it's not our land and so i appreciate that this is here because of the protections well

3:37:14i thought that there would be some more protections but but the way it is at least now um but yeah i've

3:37:21just i'm just concerned that that this is we're we're rudderless on this

3:37:29we're completely rudderless on this as a community and uh and the captain of the ship is the province

3:37:39they will lead it where it's going to go so i was hoping that uh that we would have a different

3:37:45outcome for today but i respect i do i actually i fully do i respect the the community input

3:37:50and i respect the will of council on this i 100 do that's i'm being authentic on that but i just

3:37:55wanted to say it's very it's very confusing what's happening with this land i kind of wish the

3:38:01province would actually make up their mind on it so that we actually i think you're a planner is

3:38:06nodding in in improvement so that we can actually know what's going on here

3:38:13so uh anyways with that thanks thanks everybody i vented for a couple of minutes

3:38:18i will um can i have the motion back up for a second maybe my venting made me rethink something

3:38:24can i just look at the motions again thank you yeah you know what now that the amendment has passed

3:38:38i'd rather vote for it because you get at least at least i would get like everything except for

3:38:45that portion that's been removed so i i made my vote clear on the on the residential part

3:38:51but i think i will vote for this because at least at least the other stuff is in there that

3:38:56that is important it was kind of like all we've talked about is this residential thing

3:39:01but there's there's a great stuff in the plan too there's and we can't forget about that right

3:39:04so there's great stuff in the plan okay i i will be voting for this don't know if anyone cares but

3:39:10i'm voting for this uh i will call the vote is anyone against beauty okay unanimous thanks thanks

3:39:20everybody that's great okay um i'm gonna take a break for everyone and there is hold on here hold on

3:39:32there is okay we got two more things to go here so why don't we take a break until 6 30 just

3:39:46because it is kind of dinner time so we'll take a break until 6 30 and then we will come back

3:39:53and we will start with that official plan update phase one the decision report okay see everybody

3:40:00back here at 6 30 to plow through everything here okay thank you okay everyone this is your

4:08:29one minute warning if you could uh just take your seats or get ready to turn your camera on for my

4:08:35colleagues online that would be great thank you okay this is your four second heads up we're about

4:10:55to start clerks are you good everyone online good heads shaken awesome okay i will call the meeting

4:11:05back to order out here we are at the agenda item official plan update phase one official plan amendment

4:11:12decision report we are going to have a little bit of a presentation from staff and then we have

4:11:19three delegations on this matter and so i'll turn it over to staff terry are you kicking us off on this

4:11:29lucas is yeah lucas is okay no it just said to my thing to terry so uh over to you lucas thank you so

4:11:34much thank you mayor guthrie uh good evening mayor members of council in the public uh my name is

4:11:43lucas malami and i'm a project manager in policy planning i'll be leading the presentation tonight

4:11:49so tonight is the decision meeting of council for guelph's official plan update phase one

4:11:53titled laying the groundwork as council and the public may remember from our statutory public

4:12:01meeting in october there have been many changes to provincial legislation provincial policies

4:12:06and municipal plans and policies since our last official plan update in turn we have proposed official

4:12:13plan changes to respond to and to provide consistency and conformity between the official plan

4:12:19in this new legislation policies and plans our last major official plan update was official

4:12:25plan amendment 80 also known as shaping guelph or opa 80 opa 80 was the city's last growth management

4:12:32strategy which took a comprehensive look at growth to the year 2051 opa 80 was adopted by city council

4:12:40in july 2022 and approved by the ministry of municipal affairs and housing with modifications

4:12:45on april 11th 2023 the city continues to use opa 80 and this current phase of the official plan

4:12:52update is not proposing significant changes to where how or when guelph grows so for our timeline

4:13:01starting back in 2022 council approved two important master plan documents the transportation master

4:13:07plan and the parks plan these plans need to be integrated into our official plan to reflect

4:13:13new direction for transportation and parks policies in the city there have also been several

4:13:18provincial legislative changes over the last number of years such as bill 23 which made changes

4:13:23to the planning act and the ontario heritage act in addition on october 20th 2024 a new provincial

4:13:30planning statement or pps came into full force in effect the pps 2024 is a consolidation of the

4:13:37previous provincial policy statement 2020 and the growth plan for the greater golden horseshoe

4:13:43decisions made by planning authorities must be consistent with this new pps 2024 and so our

4:13:49official plan must be updated to reflect this new policy document with these changes the goal of phase

4:13:55one was to provide certainty and clarity on what policies are being maintained what policies have

4:14:01been removed and what policies are changing in our official plan staff also wanted to reiterate to

4:14:10council in the public what the scope of phase one was phase one included implementing the new

4:14:15provincial planning statement 2024 and aligning policies with recent changes to the planning

4:14:20act and the ontario heritage act this includes changes to official plan policies and definitions

4:14:26phase one also included adding recommendations and updating mapping from the transportation master

4:14:30plan the parks plan and the trails master plan we've also taken the time to improve our cultural

4:14:37heritage policies both to respond to provincial changes and to make cultural heritage policies

4:14:42more readable and accessible finally as per its title phase one lays the groundwork for future

4:14:48phases of the official plan update by providing a policy base and identifying areas within the

4:14:54official plan that may need further review and work to be consistent with provincial direction

4:15:00or to reflect recommendations from city master plans phase one did not include large changes to

4:15:06where how or when wealth grows this includes changes to growth set out in our existing growth

4:15:12management strategy or preparing a new growth management strategy it did not include changes

4:15:18to policies that require separate additional study this includes changes from the province or from

4:15:24master plans that may require more targeted work and are not immediately needed to facilitate

4:15:28short-term growth it also did not remove cultural heritage protections the ontario heritage act

4:15:34continues to be enforced through our official plan it also did not include the creation of a brand

4:15:40new official plan overall phase one can be characterized as an administrative exercise

4:15:48the timeline for phase one included two information sessions in july 2025 followed by the statutory

4:15:55public meeting with the draft official plan amendment 110 presented in october in november

4:16:00draft opa 110 was available on the project's have your say page for comment over the course of december

4:16:06staff made small adjustments to respond to comments received and today we're presenting the final

4:16:11recommended opa 110 with this being phase one it is expected that the official plan update will

4:16:22occur over multiple phases looking forward from phase one phase two is planned to take place over

4:16:28the rest of 2026 and will include amendments to respond to employment policy changes from the

4:16:33province and incorporating other recommendations from our transportation master plan future phases

4:16:39will commence in the years to come and our plan to include review on specific topics these future

4:16:44phases are still being scoped so some of what's highlighted in this particular slide may be subject

4:16:49to change as counsel in the public may remember from our from our october presentation we have

4:16:58divided the changes in phase one across seven different themes i'll be spending the rest of

4:17:03the presentation going over what has changed under each theme if any from the october draft to now

4:17:11so just before i do that we just wanted to explain how to read this amendment

4:17:15opa 110 has overall been presented in a table there are five columns in this table the item

4:17:21number the location of the policy in our existing official plan what that current policy says the

4:17:27amended words and finally staff comments for accessibility purposes text that is changing

4:17:33is denoted through the use of the strong or bold styling this bold styling is used in the second

4:17:39column to denote words that are being removed through this amendment and in the third column

4:17:44to denote words that are being added also for accessibility purposes all italics have been

4:17:50removed which are used in the official plan to denote words that are defined terms the fifth

4:17:55column notes what's word what words are currently defined and what words are proposed to be defined

4:17:59through this amendment so starting with cultural heritage following motions from the heritage

4:18:07advisory committee we've made the following changes from draft opa 110 so those are to include a

4:18:13policy objective on supporting adaptive reuse using existing language from the guelph innovation

4:18:18district secondary plan and revising the definition of heritage conservation district

4:18:23to clarify that properties listed within an hcd are designated on the city's heritage register

4:18:33for employment no changes have been made since october employment will be one of the two

4:18:37focuses for phase two with a large focus of that being understanding what guelph's current

4:18:41employment area needs are following changes by the province to permitted uses in employment areas

4:18:50but the theme of environment no changes have been made since october the natural heritage system

4:18:54will be a focus of a future phase of the official plan update moving to complete community no changes

4:19:03have been made since october following engagement with the mississaugas of the credit first nation

4:19:08and the six nations of the grand river planning staff have committed to undertaking an indigenous

4:19:12engagement project as part of a future phase of the official plan update at a high level this

4:19:17project will look at how indigenous communities are engaged on development applications for

4:19:25supporting growth staff have made a small change to strengthen the language on requirements for

4:19:29potential settlement area boundary expansions in a response to a motion from the planning

4:19:34environment and water advisory committee currently guelph's corporate boundary and our settlement

4:19:39area boundary are the same but if that were to change we want to be clear at the official plan

4:19:44level what the requirements are to expand our settlement area boundary for transportation we're

4:19:54making some corrections to schedule five which is our road and rail network from the draft so that

4:19:59the correct street hierarchy from the transportation master plan is included and those corrections

4:20:04have been noted in the staff report and finally with parks staff have made one minor change in

4:20:13response to a comment received so under our parkland dedication policies within our official plan

4:20:18we're clarifying that parcels of land where the sole function of that land is for trails or

4:20:22active transportation connections are not acceptable and not considered as parkland dedication

4:20:27this clarification is consistent with the parkland dedication criteria in the 2022 park plan since

4:20:36october staff have done a number of engagements with advisory committees of council including the

4:20:40heritage advisory committee and the planning environment and water advisory committee who

4:20:44both provided comments and motions which have been reflected in the final recommended opa 110 in

4:20:48front of you today as well our have your say page was open for comments from october 16th

4:20:53to november 14th and one comment was received there which staff have responded to as part of the

4:20:57staff report with that i'll pass it over to christa for some closing remarks thanks lucas

4:21:09so i just wanted to to close and bring us back to the the previous slide on what this is and what

4:21:15this is not we recognize there's been a lot of correspondence since the public meeting on the

4:21:19niska lands and tying a property specific amendment to this current official plan policy work as

4:21:25lucas has indicated there are not site specific property amendments associated with this amendment

4:21:31and we request that council keep the items separate and allow for the official plan work to proceed

4:21:36the work that staff has been doing over the past year is a conformity inconsistency exercise

4:21:42what policies definitions and mapping need to change to respond to specific provincial changes

4:21:47and municipal changes it has not been to look at site specifically and uses requests to how

4:21:54where wealth grows we've done that work most recently with official plan 80 which was a year

4:22:00long process with a lot of time and resources dedicated to it we've also based a lot of other

4:22:05city master planning work on opa 80 so this phase of the op update takes a look at what's changed

4:22:13since official plan amendment 80 at a provincial level and a municipal level to see what we can

4:22:19implement while keeping that comprehensive growth planning work intact so that is the the end of

4:22:26our presentation and we're happy to answer any questions following the delegations great thank

4:22:32you to staff very much for setting the stage for the report and what's ahead of us we appreciate that

4:22:39we have three delegations signed up for this one and just as our staff reminded council

4:22:49at the end there Christa reminded council I'm out about what's actually in front of us with the

4:22:57the scope of what we sent them away to do and what we're discussing about here and to keep the

4:23:02niska land issue separate because that is a separate agenda item it is uh it's important that we have

4:23:10our delegates do the same just that we respect that but up for up first sorry is Susan Watson who's

4:23:18going to join us by telephone and then we have Hugh Whiteley by video and Laura mirror also by

4:23:22telephone Susan I see you on the screen I think you know the drill here it is I believe star six to

4:23:30unmute and then you have up to five minutes same with every delegation in front of us here and a

4:23:36chime at four minutes and thirty second mark will be your warning before cut off at five minutes

4:23:43thank you for joining us Susan and we appreciate it and I'll turn it over to you yeah we can hear

4:23:47you good yep you're coming through great yep go ahead now about three and members of council

4:23:53the official plan update phase one includes incorporating key updates from the 2022 map

4:23:59park master plan in that plan staff identified a looming parkland deficit of 174 hectares or 430

4:24:07acres relative to population by 2051 in particular staff identified an increasing demand for playing

4:24:15fields and the overuse of the turf of some of our existing fields shortly after that 2022 report

4:24:21Doug Ford cut in half the amount of parkland dedication or cash in lieu that developers have

4:24:27to provide the high density buildings so the amount of parkland we will be able to get from

4:24:31development has actually been reduced on the population side a majority of this council approved

4:24:37a significant zoning change in the innovation district changing employment zoning to housing

4:24:42and thereby increasing the number of future wealth residents on top of that you now have increased

4:24:48density limits in the downtown core and the new provincial policy statement requires more

4:24:52intensification in existing built-up areas so my question is has the 2022 parkland shortfall

4:24:59figure been updated to reflect both reduced parkland acquisition opportunities as well as

4:25:05added population both these changes will have aggravated the future parkland shortfall

4:25:12174 hectares is the equivalent to five riverside parks and to give you a scale of the sense of the

4:25:19scale of the challenge of meeting our future parkland targets even the proposed acquisition of the

4:25:23court right waterfowl land from the GRCA will only address 30 percent of the originally projected

4:25:29shortfall which we now know is bigger so I would appreciate knowing it that shortfall figure has

4:25:34been updated and if yes what is the current number and I apologize if this has already happened that

4:25:40I've somehow missed it the other role of this OP update is to integrate the new provincial planning

4:25:46statement and the key goal of this policy is to increase housing supply and one of the requirements

4:25:52is that municipalities support redevelopment and intensification within existing built-up areas

4:25:59however I am extremely concerned about where we're heading with our water supply

4:26:03given the current crisis that is unfolding in Waterloo region they are 80 percent dependent on

4:26:09groundwater we are 100 dependent on groundwater the 2021 water supply master plan predicted

4:26:16that demand would exceed supply by 2051 and I'm not clear if that plan accounted for the 5000 new

4:26:22residents in the Doe line quarry lands which were annexed to the city it's my understanding that the

4:26:28additional 5000 population from Doe line exceeded our targets of 203 residents by 2051 then in 2023

4:26:37six of you still at the council table voted to allow fusion to change the zoning in the

4:26:41innovation district from employment land to housing Ms. Walske told you at that meeting that the

4:26:47water supply master plan was calculated to have quote barely squeaked by by 2021 and that was in

4:26:54jeopardy former CAO Scott Stewart said that he had a fiduciary duty to tell you there wasn't enough

4:27:00water for this additional housing and if you were going to add housing into the innovation district

4:27:05you would have to take it out elsewhere and where is the additional population growth triggered by

4:27:11downtown intensification and increasing density across the city being trapped this is the big

4:27:17boo boo in Waterloo region that they didn't include the increased demand from intensification and

4:27:23infill in their calculation the specter of quote illegal liability is now being raised in Waterloo

4:27:30region although it hasn't been said explicitly that will mean developers suing the region

4:27:36this council is even more vulnerable from a legal perspective because a majority of you

4:27:41voted to add housing against the explicit advice and advice of staff and this that could be framed

4:27:47as willful negligence if we find ourselves in the same water crisis as Waterloo region

4:27:53so two of your decisions this evening give and gave you the opportunity to rebalance

4:27:57wealth projected housing with our actual water budget by subtracting housing I'm not a lawyer but

4:28:04I'm thinking these could be important actions to minimize legal risk for the city and help us to

4:28:09live within our means when it comes to our water budget if the Ford government wants to impose MZO's

4:28:15and assume the legal risk of exceeding our water capacity I'd say let them but please don't you

4:28:21put wealth tax dollars at risk thank you thank you very much for your delegation is there a follow-up

4:28:28at this time by any my colleagues there is not so thank you very much and I know that I see your

4:28:34name on the next item so stay tuned we'll come back to you in a moment thank you Dr. Hugh Whiteley

4:28:41is going to join us by video next and we do see you joining Hugh I think you just need to turn on

4:28:53the camera if you wish and if the camera isn't working for you if you want to try just unmuting

4:29:07you could do it oh no here you go we see you now and do you want to try unmuting for us

4:29:25there I think I'm both visible and audible well we do we do see your forehead

4:29:32uh yeah uh and we hear you as well so there you go that's awesome perfect uh thank you

4:29:41thanks you for joining us and whenever you're ready to go you go right ahead okay okay I'm

4:29:48elegant uh delegating today on proposal OPA 110 because I think it's an obligation of the city

4:29:58whenever it's adjusting its official plan to take account of any errors in the official plan in terms

4:30:06of contradictions between the official plan and its adopted master plans and there's an instance

4:30:14which has I will outline below that occurs at the time of 110 that should be allowed to be incorporated

4:30:26into the change as an emergency response city council and city staff have received extensive

4:30:35correspondence from citizens requesting as a matter of urgency that OPA 110 contain a redesignation

4:30:47in open space to open space parkland of an eight heck there parcel acquired by the city

4:30:55in the g rca as parkland the redesignation would correct an erroneous designation of the parcel

4:31:05for housing the designation for housing was a planning error because it ignored the parcel

4:31:13having permanent designation as open space permanent zoning as conservation and the specific

4:31:23mention in future functions for this parcel in an adopted master plan that still remains active

4:31:35my request is that in view of the failure of staff to respond to these extensive submissions

4:31:43in OPA 110 and explaining to people how the city was going to take account of these comments on

4:31:53deficiencies in the official plan the circulation and instead has circulated background information

4:32:05that grossly represents misrepresents past actions of city council regarding this parcel of land

4:32:13because of all those functions i'm asking that council withhold consideration of approval of OPA 110

4:32:22until a further public meeting is held under the planning act to consider whether redesignation

4:32:30of the eight heck there's should be included in OPA 110 so i'm just going to stop your time for one

4:32:39sec dr waley i have stopped the time to make sure that i'm respecting your your delegation time limit

4:32:46okay i i see that you are only talking about a site specific issue which we have a separate item on

4:32:55the agenda in which i also see that you've signed up to delegate for that and so i'm just wondering

4:33:03why you're speaking about that separate agenda item that's coming up in in your delegation now

4:33:11i will uh make clear that what i'm talking about is the lack of response to a valid set of comments

4:33:24on OPA 110 what i'm objecting to is okay just one second just one second i'm not i'm i'm gonna

4:33:33can i'm gonna make sure that i tell the clerks to continue with your clock because i don't want

4:33:37you to lose your time okay but but i respectfully ask that you try your best to speak to this item

4:33:49and the details that are in front of us and try to focus your attention on a site specific issue

4:33:57under the agenda item that you've already signed up to delegate on okay you know me well enough to

4:34:03know that i hate interrupting people on this stuff i sincerely do so i'm gonna start the time i'm

4:34:08gonna let you continue but please make sure that you are trying to speak to this item and not trying

4:34:15to marry the two together or to double up just so that we have a fair for everybody okay your

4:34:21time continues to start right now in making your decision on OPA 110 i remind council that every

4:34:30official plan adopted by a city council determines how land in our community should be used choosing

4:34:39the best use for each parcel to ensure that future planning and development will meet the specific

4:34:46needs of our community where council has been informed of a deficiency in the official plan

4:34:54every official plan should be prepared with consideration of inputs from the community

4:35:01please adhere to this principle and listen to your community in this comments on OPA 110

4:35:13okay great thank you very much and and and i appreciate you and i kind of going back and

4:35:19forth there i didn't i did not want to interrupt you so thank you is there any questions then for

4:35:24dr wightley at this time okay seeing none and again just like i said to the last delegate i will see

4:35:32you and hear from you very soon uh now the meg thorburn has not is not on this particular one

4:35:41and we are are having a trouble connecting with laura murray now uh is that correct clerks you

4:35:47just told me that okay so what i'm going to do is i'm going to move on back to council right now

4:35:54but if you do get a hold of laura murray all of a sudden just interrupt me and let me know just so

4:35:59we can honor that that delegation okay um so uh at this time it is back to us

4:36:08council is there at least someone that would be willing to move the recommendation

4:36:13that's in front of us okay i'll go to the screen gipson and busitil okay thank you uh questions

4:36:21of staff and or comments you want to blend them together let's let's do that okay so gipson and

4:36:28katin thank you through you mr mayor um just a question i can't remember the slide that it was

4:36:35on to staff um it was about maybe we could just unpack this a little bit for me it was about the

4:36:42multi-use paths and the trail connections not being counted as parkland dedication because

4:36:48staff to broaden that i've just got a few case studies in my mind or that may be a maybe a little

4:36:55bit problematic but i just wanted to hear from staff um the rationale for that did i get that right

4:37:03through the mayor to councillor ipson so that that's correct so at a at a staff level for parkland

4:37:09dedication we do not accept trails so our trails are planned along the natural heritage system and

4:37:16within rail corridors where land can be secured but at no cost to the city unlike with parkland

4:37:22dedication so for example we have partnerships with the gulf junction railway that they've

4:37:27developed allowed us to develop trails at low cost to the city um developers typically convey

4:37:33the natural heritage system to the city at no cost through the development approval process

4:37:38since these areas can't be developed um because trails are permitted within buffers for natural

4:37:44heritage system land and because these lands are already transferred to the city um we do have

4:37:49already a reliable and cost effective method for securing land for new trails that doesn't then draw

4:37:55from parkland dedication requirements okay i i completely understand that rationale i guess

4:38:01my question is when a trail connection is sort of requested or needs to go across a developer's

4:38:11site and it's in it's in it's conveyed to the city but it's not through green space how does the city

4:38:17interpret that i i'm just i'm i know i'm i'm not going to zero in on one specific development file

4:38:23but i can't think of one where there's a parkland that's been created on the site and there's a

4:38:29trail connection going through it and i'm just it's definitely on the developer's land parcel

4:38:35not on city's parcel um and it looks like it's been able to use path or a trail that's connecting

4:38:41one one side of the property to the other and i'm just wondering other other exceptions to to this rule

4:38:48or um is it sort of uh this is the rule but there may be some exceptions

4:38:56i can take these questions offline i just i regret not asking them a little bit in advance so

4:39:05good evening so um so through the mayor generally we do not accept trails as parkland

4:39:11dedication as lucas has mentioned there are cases where a trail connection a small portion

4:39:17would need to go through developable land and in that case the city will generally

4:39:21purchase an easement uh from developers which is generally quite low cost so in most

4:39:28using that mechanism we are able through sub through subdivision applications to utilize the

4:39:35um parkland dedication for a park block and secure a trail okay that that gives me a peace of mind

4:39:42i appreciate it thank you um i'll i'll give the site specific details to staff at a later date

4:39:49but i just wanted to get that that clarified thank you very much great thank you uh kateen then alt

4:39:56thank you through you mr mayor um first i just want to say thank you so much to our planning staff

4:40:01um with this and every other project you've gone through and the amount of shifting legislation

4:40:08and council decisions like overall you are all just working constantly so i just appreciate

4:40:15that you've kind of consolidated all of the things that you've been through in the last

4:40:19term into this document um my question is about the transportation area and i just see

4:40:27there's a lot of streets um in ward one and throughout the city that are kind of shifting

4:40:33between being a collector and an arterial and existing collectors and i was just wondering if

4:40:40you could give a little bit of an overview of what those changes mean materially to the people

4:40:46on those streets i know a lot of folks who've been asking for like traffic calming and other things

4:40:50like that um there's different rules and regulations depending on what the street name is so could you

4:40:55give us a little bit of an outline on what those changes mean to the people on those streets

4:41:01mayor to to council kateen so the the transportation master plan related um connection and alignment

4:41:15to this official plan update is really around um recognizing the schedules and the transportation

4:41:20master plan um and putting them into the official plan so whether that's where where the city could

4:41:25for example take a road wedding so if a development application came forward and um the city was

4:41:31required to take a road wedding for example it's that type of alignment that we're now

4:41:35recognizing in the official plan um pursuant to that 2022 master plan approval for the transportation

4:41:41master plan so what would in terms of the road widenings just because i'm seeing a lot of

4:41:53and i know that there's a lot of easements on folks front lawns and things like that um

4:42:01can can you describe a little bit more about

4:42:07what that actually would what the impact would be of the road widenings and

4:42:11where specifically we're looking at that and how soon so through the mayor to to the council

4:42:20i mean certainly with with the respect to the entire transportation network the the nuances

4:42:25to your question can vary from street to street and then again this is really around giving staff

4:42:30the authority when development applications do come in to require the road widenings for those

4:42:35specific purposes so whether um you know depending on the schedule and the transportation master plan

4:42:40whether it's a local road arterial road collector road um that's it's just about aligning the

4:42:45opportunity to obtain those lands um to protect the future ultimate road design for a given corridor

4:42:52so it's kind of hard to answer your question in a site specific kind of manner um but that's why

4:42:57the official plan update is required thanks and i read that we're going to hear more about that in

4:43:04part two so there'll be more opportunities to discuss through the mayor to councillor kate and

4:43:11that is correct thank you very much great so we have only three more uh alt goller and then chew

4:43:22thank you very much mr mayor um just a quick question uh to staff with regards to

4:43:29comments on trails um councillor gibson actually piqued me on this a bit and i am just wondering

4:43:36do we follow a similar protocol to other municipalities when it comes to assessing our trail

4:43:44needs and establishing those trails or is what we do you need to go off staff is making their way

4:44:02down councillor Allt just so you don't know they decided to take a few trails to get here that's

4:44:06fine thank you yeah thank you for the question so our our approach is very much aligned with most

4:44:12municipalities in ontario great answer thank you all right thank you uh what do i have here i

4:44:26two more caller and chew thank you three worship the staff thank you so much for the presentation

4:44:32and for all this work i i do note that on on the third page of your presentation you mentioned that

4:44:38what is included in phase one included key updates from the transportation and parks master plans

4:44:43one of the delegates asked if the the projections of the parkland needed was updated is that something

4:44:50that has been updated through in this uh so not through this process but we are planning to bring

4:44:59back a parkland acquisition strategy for council consideration in 2027 perfect thank you so much

4:45:04thank you worship thank you thank you councillor glower and chew thank you thank you mr mayor first

4:45:12i want to thank that staff as well i think a lot of changes here to the classification of the trails

4:45:17on the road classification actually helps with a lot of case work and a lot of advocacy that's

4:45:25been done behind the scenes i just have to ask for my own ward i noticed for the trails there are

4:45:32changes within preservation park and also for the road classification there's uh there's a change to

4:45:39court right east and then also scott stalin you maybe mallory this is a question for you you can

4:45:44kind of hit a picture for the for the public on what we can expect with these changes um

4:45:52materially down the road just at a very high level yeah sure so through the mayor uh the changes

4:45:58schedule six the trail network generally follow updates that were approved through the

4:46:04guelph trail master plan so that update that mapping now reflects our guelph trail master plan

4:46:10mapping other updates to schedule six included um where trails have now been developed they're now

4:46:17shown as existing rather than proposed there was some cleanup to the legend and some map symbols

4:46:23and then in phase two we'll do a little bit more cleanup to that map to identify which lines are

4:46:29actually the trail network and which are part of the cycling network okay i appreciate this and

4:46:36maybe this might be a question more to terry on the scott stalin court right east changes

4:46:43will that have any implications on folks within the the traffic calming request queue

4:46:50uh for the warrants and kind of prioritization yeah so through the mayor to council true i would

4:46:58i would view that as separate the city has an updated traffic calming policy coming to council

4:47:04in q2 of this year and so that that conversation is to come okay thank you with that um it's been

4:47:15moved and seconded i'd like to call the vote then uh before i do thank you very much

4:47:23actually this was one of the most kind of laid well laid out easily read sort of changes so

4:47:31i don't know who was responsible for that but think oh who was responsible say it out loud

4:47:38lucas well done thank you if i can understand you're doing a very good job so we appreciate it

4:47:47all right i'll call the vote then on this is anyone against this new update there is no one

4:47:57that is unanimous thank you very very much we really appreciate it okay uh where are we next

4:48:08okay the next one is an item that i added to the agenda based on the

4:48:17the uh community interest in this it felt like we needed to have a dedicated space

4:48:24and a dedicated agenda item to the to this and so uh i appreciate both council staff and the

4:48:33community understanding why adding a specific agenda item just made a lot more sense so that

4:48:38we could focus on one issue uh and with that we have uh quite a few delegations that have come

4:48:47forward so thank you very much for that but just before the delegations come up there is a recommendation

4:48:56that's been well it was originally noted like a week and a half or so ago and then on friday

4:49:02i actually changed it again uh but at least you know everyone could see it but i just want

4:49:10to just before the delegations come up or the before the delegation speak i just want to set

4:49:17the foundation of what is coming and i thought i'd just be super transparent right now in advance

4:49:22of the delegations and i'm going to ask staff to throw this up on the screen so anybody at home

4:49:29anybody in the audience here can look at it now is your time to take out your camera if you want

4:49:33to take a picture or whatever so you can look at it okay um i'll read it i'll read it out loud

4:49:40just so i'm setting the stage here okay that staff be directed to report back no later than q2

4:49:462026 with the city initiated amendment to the city's official plan and zoning bylaw pursuant

4:49:54to section 17 and 34 of the planning act it doesn't need the parcel of land i am not going to say

4:49:59the address as open space and parkland okay so that that is what will be tabled and it's up to

4:50:12it's up to the will of council after that of course but i'm just telling you that's what's

4:50:16going to be tabled after we hear from all of you i just wanted to set sort of the tone

4:50:24and i feel i feel bad i know i do actually feel bad because a lot of people you know you prepare

4:50:29your five-minute delegation you prepare sort of the route you might want to state some things

4:50:34which a hundred percent you can keep to the script of whatever you whatever you've done if you wish

4:50:40but now that you know that that's coming forward it may it may just change a little bit of how we

4:50:48how we move forward in this conversation as a community together i hope you're you understand

4:50:52and you're with me okay so with that in mind knowing that this is going to be tabled

4:51:01i'd like to call up our first delegation on this and i think we could we can have like more

4:51:09comments and questions after i and i have a lot of that but i want to respect that the delegation

4:51:15should go first okay so i have a lot more to say about why i kind of crafted it that way

4:51:24but i'm going to save it i'll save it for later okay so the first one is on telephone it is

4:51:30susan watson again and then and more is and here in the room i just don't have my glasses on

4:51:37okay you're in the wings okay and okay so susan if you're yeah i can see you on screen there for

4:51:42your phone uh you unmute and you start right away go right ahead so susan i don't know if you can

4:52:01hear me it's cam i just wondered if you're still with us uh if you want to try unmuting okay

4:52:16we'll go on to the next one but don't worry if if she's available i'll come back like i always do so

4:52:21for an why don't you come on forward okay thanks an and then i'll try susan after after after you

4:52:30an friends of court right foul waterfowl park lands by the way uh is what an is here representing

4:52:41i should have said that so uh and have you been here uh for the last little while or no because

4:52:46there's no more than five minutes okay got that and you'll get the the chime at the four minutes

4:52:50and thirty second mark okay thank you okay go right ahead okay thank you mayor and and members

4:52:56of council for the opportunity to speak today about the court right waterfowl park or niska lands

4:53:02and specifically about park part lot 13 concession five which i will call the 20 acres

4:53:12my name is an mure and i'm a citizen of guelph and a member of the friends of the court right

4:53:16waterfowl park we have a following of almost 400 people on facebook and counting i can assure you

4:53:23there are many people in this community who care deeply about this land i visited the park with

4:53:29my children back in the day and i'm painfully aware that the park was boarded up and not maintained

4:53:35by the g rca for the last 20 years the city announcement on january 23rd to sell the 20 acres

4:53:42and protect the rest is not a good deal for guelph i am asking the city to protect all of the land

4:53:50including the 20 acres i will explain why this publicly held land was purchased with taxpayer

4:53:58funds with a fairly stated intention that remains in the public record to create parkland to be

4:54:05protected in perpetuity it is our green space legacy for present and future generations of humans

4:54:12and wildlife to enjoy crucial to protect at a time when climate change is upon us

4:54:20the 20 acres is a buffer zone for sensitive ecosystems as human populations increase the

4:54:26wild things are pushed back to the valley lands if we only protect the rivers and streams the

4:54:32impact on sensitive ecosystems will be catastrophic court right park contains an astounding 31 unique

4:54:40eco sites including over 161 species of birds and 12 species of fish including brook trout

4:54:47and so much more if the 20 acres is developed the constitution the construction and additional

4:54:54human traffic will be another death knell for the wildlife in the tier three uh source water

4:55:03report the 20 acres was identified as a high volume recharge area so any re reduction of

4:55:10groundwater recharge and flow will be felt on the surrounding area including the speed river

4:55:17there has never been a full study done of the speed river watershed given the shortage of water

4:55:22that has emerged as a critical critical issue in water leachin wouldn't it be important to

4:55:27determine the role these 20 acres play in recharge of the surrounding area if not are we not

4:55:34potentially risking the degradation and loss of the natural wetland and possibly compromising our

4:55:41own water supply is the city so desperate for land to develop housing that we need to begin to sell

4:55:48off our parkland i believe not gulf today said that over 8 000 unused land approvals are sitting

4:55:56there and some of them are dating back to 1987 there's no lack of land for building homes in

4:56:02gulf land at the city's edge far away from services and supports is not a place to put

4:56:09affordable housing developing land at the edge of the city is expensive the city will be left

4:56:15with the high cost of infrastructure to link this valley to the rest of the city so let's not pretend

4:56:22that this is a good idea for housing the g rca says that the 20 acres has no ecological value as a

4:56:30rationale for selling it i believe that all land has ecological value the 20 acres could easily be

4:56:37restored to grassland or reforested people need places to play learn and grow selling this land

4:56:44will only increase the parkland shortage in gulf these 20 acres could contain sports fields playgrounds

4:56:50picnic areas camping pollinator gardeners i could go on in other words it could be a park as was intended

4:57:00the mayor counselors and city staff need to stand firm on what is good for gulf the g rca is about

4:57:06to be dissolved if sold the money from the sale is about to go into a conservation authority that

4:57:12spans both most of southwestern ontario down to winzer selling this land makes no sense and it's

4:57:19a bad deal for gulf i appreciate the motion and revision of the motion that's been put forward

4:57:27let's make the protection of this parkland the legacy thanks so much all right thanks and

4:57:34any questions for an well she's here nope you're lucky no so it's a bit oh you got to come back in

4:57:42i'm sorry counsel or two or are you through you mr. mayor and thank you for coming i just

4:57:49have to ask uh what are your thoughts on the recent amended motion i'm hopeful thank you thank you so

4:57:59much yeah great that could have been worse so that's good it's such an open-ended question

4:58:06all right thank you uh let's try susan watson again yeah okay we're gonna try susan watson again

4:58:12clerks are saying that you might be on susan are you able to unmute can you hear me yes you're

4:58:21coming through great and over to you start anytime great now got three members of council thank you

4:58:27for those updates to the motion because that was exactly the two changes i was going to ask for

4:58:34bringing the motion back in a more timely manner because the land has been declared surplus by the

4:58:42g rc a and so it was really uh we were we were looking at a situation where conservation land

4:58:49purchased with public money was it is it imminent risk of being private private type so thank you

4:58:54for understanding that urgency and and moving that forward and then my other request was the

4:58:59removal of the word potential so that so that council is really committing to um correcting

4:59:06this historic designation error um archival minutes show that both the g rc a and well city

4:59:12council approved a master plan for the ham and creek conservation area which included both

4:59:17agricultural fields and as far as i know that decision has never been rescinded and i'm not

4:59:23clear if the council who changed the zoning of the southern field to housing in 2012 was made aware

4:59:29of the history of the property mistakes happen uh council caught and fixed a similar error in 2022

4:59:37when you corrected the zoning on the arm tech land from high density to medium density and i'm not

4:59:42sure here anyone quite knew how that happened but it was clearly not what council intended and you

4:59:49fixed it um and now there's the opportunity to do the same thing for the field that was purchased

4:59:55to be held in trust as parkland and open space for wealth citizens um again as i

5:00:02intimated in my previous uh delegation this is an opportunity for you to remove housing

5:00:07from the official plan as former cio scott stewart said you would need to do when you

5:00:13approve the innovation district zoning change and importantly i think this will reduce legal

5:00:19exposure for the city in water matters the fundamental premise of the clearingland surplus

5:00:25is that it is no longer needed for the purpose for which it was acquired no one can make the case in

5:00:322026 that either parkland or conservation land is not needed wealth has at least 174 hectares

5:00:40shortage of parkland and especially playing fields and the g rca's own reports document

5:00:46increasing demand and public pressure on conservation areas so in order to cash out the

5:00:53court right lands the g rca engaged in decision-based evidence making and fabricated a false

5:00:59acquisition history they claimed that the land was acquired for the hefzler reservoir project

5:01:05and is therefore no longer needed the g rca hasn't produced one shred of evidence linking that project

5:01:13to the purchase of court right whereas in contrast there is a mountain of documentation

5:01:18tracking the true acquisition of the waterfell park for the handland creek conservation area

5:01:24including letters minutes backrounders ledgers and archival news clippings and i sent you

5:01:31as part of the agenda the letter from the mnr that i obtained by f o i specifically allocating the

5:01:37grant money towards land purchased or the handland creek conservation area and i also included the

5:01:44archival news clipping published three days later announcing that the grant and the fact that the

5:01:49purchase of the waterfell park was being made for parkland and open space in perpetuity the other

5:01:56fact that puts the lie to the gc rca narrative is this if the land was to be acquired for the

5:02:02hefzler reservoir then guelph never would have contributed tax dollars to the purchase those

5:02:09of you who have served on the g rca know that infrastructure and flood control projects are

5:02:14not funded by individual municipalities they are funded on a watershed basis through levies and

5:02:21apportionments the g rca's own disposition policy requires that the original terms of the acquisition

5:02:28be honored while the civic leaders of the day were clearly too trusting to get things in writing

5:02:33the public record is unequivocal about how and why this land was acquired the land deal currently

5:02:41being negotiated with the g rca asks council and the public to look the other way while the g rca

5:02:47caches out one sixth of the original court right land holdings if you punch the historic numbers

5:02:53the g rca contributed five thousand dollars in 1977 towards the purchase of that field today the g

5:03:01rca could be poised to sell it for as much as 20 million dollars and pocket the entire amount

5:03:08and again this plan is predicated on a lie glove city council must not support and enable the

5:03:15unethical conduct of the g rca this is a raw deal for the citizens of guelph and for future generations

5:03:23and a potential betrayal of the legacy that norm jerry and ken and ilean hamill sought to leave for

5:03:28the city citizens of guelph so thank you for moving forward with a strong great uh sorry sorry

5:03:36susan i let you go over time a little bit there i also hate cutting you off whenever you're set

5:03:41and starts with the word thank you but uh but we we we hear you stay on the phone with me just in

5:03:47case there is a follow-up is there any questions for susan at all no okay uh we're going to move on to

5:03:55our our next uh delegation um is uh renetta mayors here come on for just as renetta is coming here

5:04:05i just i i'm sorry uh i i just i just want us to be careful with our language here when we're

5:04:12talking about other entities you know lying they're unethical like i just let's let's have a

5:04:20respectful conversation about an important topic without sort of the that sort of heightened

5:04:29commentary that i just i think i i don't i don't accept that i think as a council we shouldn't

5:04:34accept that type of narrative against other entities that we we have a relationship with

5:04:39at this time so um let's just be careful i i think that's just an appropriate thing for

5:04:43me to say as the chair here in this room that we're respectful and and careful as we move forward so

5:04:48please let's let's be careful with that type of language i i don't subscribe to that i don't

5:04:52think my colleagues do either um so with saying that uh thank you for coming down and uh it's over

5:04:59to you go ahead good evening to council the mayor city staff and my neighbors my name is ronetta mayors

5:05:08and i'm a gulf resident since 96 and a healthcare professional for 18 years i begin with words from

5:05:14katrina graham an indigenous nurse and healthcare leader here in gulf wellington who's reminding

5:05:20our decision makers about the trc efforts and gulf's promise to protecting natural ecosystems

5:05:27i'm also a volunteer with the canadian association of physicians for the environment

5:05:31the ontario chapter i can tell you that science is very clear nature heals for the past five years

5:05:40over 20 000 licensed healthcare providers doctors nurses physiotherapists and alike across canada

5:05:47prescribed parks to an estimated 1.5 million canadians who are now directly benefiting from nature

5:05:55according to the evidence nature heals nature prevents physical and mental harms

5:06:00nature allows for people to age well and protect the planet natural health infrastructures like

5:06:07the court right waterfowl parklands as intended is gulf's living medicine it is the most effective

5:06:15way to counter urban heat islands filter air pollutants and offer measurable mental health

5:06:20benefits according to the gulf public library they did a 20 25 study the second most accessed

5:06:28library of things so beyond books and dvds was actually free day use vehicle permits to

5:06:35ontario parks in 2025 the first was mobile hotspots wealth have pride in their green space

5:06:43continued urban sprawl is not the answer to our hyzen crisis we have abandoned lots vacant

5:06:50homes sit idle across the city with our existing infrastructure do we not care about these existing

5:06:57footprints there are hundreds of these spaces and could be part of gulf housing needs however

5:07:04once we pave overgreen spaces it is lost our community cares deeply about keeping comfort

5:07:11conservation parkland as intended my late father was an amateur photographer who taught me about

5:07:16the parklands and in his memory we do have a bench on the west side of the river and we visited

5:07:23daily my nephews are 13 and 14 years old and they constantly hear about the climate crisis

5:07:28and loneliness epidemics and they worry and i worry for our children's future once we build

5:07:36into farmland wetland conservation it is gone forever we need housing yes but we also need

5:07:42healthy livable communities where nature is treated as an essential public health infrastructure

5:07:49not after the fact so decision makers choose long-term health over short-term pressures

5:07:55we ask as you have mentioned that revised recommendations but i would like to tweak

5:08:01it just a little bit and make it april of 2026 because a quarter is three months so i understand

5:08:09that i might be asking for too much and i am a bit new so thank you for your time and i'm open to

5:08:13questions is this your first time delegating yes you did great thanks it's fine we're easy going

5:08:21it's all good yeah so thank you very much is there any is there any questions okay uh councillor

5:08:27chou has one thank you through you mr. mayor ronata thank you for coming i did hear that you

5:08:34may mention that you have a dedicated family bench within the speed river trail is that correct

5:08:41it's it's the um uh good question now i'm forgetting my rivers but it's actually the crane park the

5:08:50river that cuts through crane park we're on the um uh john woods property um side so the west side

5:08:57of the river i think that's okay and i i preface that because my fault question is what do you think

5:09:02of the gyr c and the city partnering to clean up the trails i am hopeful about it i'm excited and

5:09:12i hope that we keep that 20 acre um eight vector 20 acre part part of the the whole um area and

5:09:24we're planning to do that so are you happy with that yes and i hope it's in april okay thank you

5:09:30thank you so much okay we don't see anything further thank you very much for coming

5:09:37lin grist i see you i see you right in the front

5:09:41and ron i see you as well welcome no problem come on down when you're ready um i don't think there are

5:10:00it should just open up yeah okay over to you lin whenever you're ready okay um yes

5:10:22before i start um mech gathry would you mind putting your revised second revision up for me

5:10:29because i may save you a whole pile of my time please put it up very quickly no problem thank you

5:10:39and i'll read i'll read it out loud one more time just if people are listening in and such online

5:10:44or whatever that's to be directed to report back no later than q2 2026 with a city initiated

5:10:50amendment to the city's official plan and zoning bylaw pursuant to section 17 and 34 of the planning

5:10:55act to designate the lands i'll just call it um as open space in parkland that's really helpful um

5:11:07and so i'm not actually going to read my whole delegation now because i'm sure there will be

5:11:14other people who will be much more eloquent than i am but i do and i really appreciate that you have

5:11:23changed the debt you know the what you're bringing to council twice that's really great um however

5:11:33uh i would really like to see is there a date april 2026 on it because i'm really concerned that this

5:11:43might get lost in the weeds so during the i'm just just just to follow process and our procedural

5:11:51bylaw we can't i can't kind of do a back and forth with you right now it's your time okay i'm sorry

5:11:57you know i want to but i just want to make sure i'm following the rules so um i can i can definitely

5:12:03answer that later though i will make sure i answer it out but this is your this is your up to five

5:12:07minutes that you need just to tell us what you think okay so then in that case what i'm going to

5:12:12say because i don't know who's going to vote in favor of your process i'm going to say i would ask

5:12:18however that council strengthen the directive so that this open space and by that i mean the court

5:12:27waterfowl reserve because i'm not a planner so i can't actually do that whole lot thing for you

5:12:34as most people in guelphan we're we're planners are a minority in guelph that this open space be

5:12:41protected by revising its recommendation to say that staff be directed to report back no later

5:12:50than april the 15th 2026 with a staff report and a process for a site specific

5:12:59council initiated land use amendment for the redesignation to open space parkland purposes

5:13:06for the eight-hectare parcel of land with the legal description of part lot 13 concession five

5:13:13fuselage pt 1 6 1 r 1 4 8 3 great thank you i'm sorry i just want to make sure i'm not interrupting

5:13:23you is that okay you're good i'm good i'm good thank you yeah okay thank you for your delegation

5:13:30councillor Goller has a quick follow-up for you okay okay thank you through your worship i

5:13:37thank you so much for coming and for everyone that has written could you help me understand

5:13:41the the rationale for april versus may or or june this coming back to council the rationale for

5:13:48so could you repeat for us to come back in april as supposed to may or or or i guess to be quite

5:13:56honest i'm just anxious it doesn't get lost in the weeds weeds and if it's actually in an amendment

5:14:02i know that it's going to come back okay okay i appreciate that thank you great seeing nothing

5:14:08further thank you then you're welcome and ron do you want to come on up next

5:14:15and then after ron we got kate mccorka dale i hope did i say that right did i say that right

5:14:22i'm two for two tonight and uh catherine hamill is catherine hamill with okay i'm sorry i don't have

5:14:29my go so i see the hand though friends of the court rate waterfowl conservation lens so ron

5:14:33you're coming up next thank you it's over to you on okay um and because you've just brought uh the

5:14:45motion forward um again i'm in complete agreement and would encourage uh everyone to vote in favor of

5:14:54it so i won't i don't go through all my delegation at this moment because easy you've already uh done

5:15:04it so yeah i i just also uh would like to reiterate what my better half has just uh presented to you

5:15:16which is if you could uh bring it back by the 15th of april um as she stated already

5:15:26that would be much appreciated as well otherwise i'm funk thank you thank you ron

5:15:33we might do a council vote later to uh confirm that lin is your better half

5:15:42so all right thank any questions for ron

5:15:46no okay thank you very much kate and kathryn are coming down and then

5:15:54andrea baker is going to join us by telephone welcome and you'll you'll share the five minutes

5:16:06yes we are if you need or whatever okay start whenever you're ready okay good evening mayor

5:16:16guthrie city counselors staff and concerned citizens and thank you for the update this

5:16:22evening much appreciated my name is kathryn hamill i am ken and eileen hamill's daughter

5:16:29i'm horris max granddaughter a number of you here this evening you may be new my parents

5:16:36perhaps you chatted with them on the phone about local issues or even had a cup of tea at their home

5:16:43one of my last outings with my parents was on the bridge of the court right property

5:16:50the sun was shining mom and dad were identifying all the ducks on the water we reminisced about the

5:16:57land and our family and as they both reiterated the importance about this space for future generations

5:17:05in essence my family's legacy for the citizens of guelph so my daughter here is holding the award

5:17:13presented to my mom in 1963 from the u gca in honor of my grandfather horris mac and the work

5:17:21that he did my grandfather understood the importance of protecting wildlife and land

5:17:28even in 1948 he knew that forward thinking and protecting land was important

5:17:34is even more important today as hundreds of acres of farmland and parkland are lost forever to

5:17:41development recently my six-year-old granddaughter asked what the award meant i spoke about looking

5:17:49after the land the importance of taking care of things or they would be gone forever we discussed

5:17:56the legacy of her great-grandparents and her great-great-grandfather we gave the plaque a good

5:18:02polish and she carried the plaque out to my car last night after she gave me a hug and a kiss

5:18:08and with a little whisper she said maybe someday i can find a spot for this plaque in my house

5:18:16thanks elspeth even at six years old you're beginning to get the message that was passed down

5:18:21from your hamel mac legacy community in particular the community of guelph was important to my parents

5:18:31my father ken hamel was an alderman for 29 years and continued to actively support numerous

5:18:37charity charities and community programs even up to his death in direct quotation from my mom

5:18:44from the guelph tribune in 2014 she spoke about the court right land it's been she quoted it's

5:18:51been purchased by public money and i'd like to see it utilized for young people and the general public

5:18:58my mom went on to say that some of the fields would make ideal sites for sports fields this evening

5:19:05mayor guthrie and each of the counselors you have an opportunity to do the right thing protect our

5:19:11community plan responsibly and return the land to its original intention so my name is kate mcorkadel

5:19:21and i am ken and ilean hamels granddaughter it was important to my grandparents that they

5:19:26live their lives with integrity and left a legacy that would benefit future generations this is

5:19:31exactly what the court right waterfell park lands achieve it is a benefit to the citizens of guelph

5:19:37providing natural space in the city it also speaks to my grandparents foresight 50 years ago to know

5:19:43that action would be needed to protect lands from development they are the example i tried to emulate

5:19:50in my own life with forward thinking and community contributions my grandmother shared her many memories

5:19:55of court right and spending time with her father and the wildlife and there's even a connection

5:20:00with the city of strafford and my great-grandfather um i live and work in strafford and he donated a

5:20:06pair of black swans to strafford um back in the day strafford's well known for its strong swans

5:20:12um there this is the time for the mayor and counselors to take positive action in a world

5:20:18where headlines are often negative and decisions are driven by economic gain this is the time to

5:20:23protect natural land because they're not making any more of it they also have the opportunity to

5:20:28honor the legacy of former citizens who had the forethought and initiative to ensure that guelph

5:20:33had amenities that benefited its citizens 50 years ago today and hopefully 50 years from now thank you

5:20:42great thank you uh to you both really kind when you mentioned had tea in your in the house

5:20:49i've i enjoyed that one time so that was great um any questions for these teleguests at this time

5:20:55counselor chu thank you through you mr mayor i i thank you for coming to the space i'm actually

5:21:02a huge fan of your family's legacy and it's no coincidence that my name's also ken um

5:21:08um so you get extra bounty points for me um i'm just curious to see if you guys would be interested

5:21:17in some capacity to uh continue sharing your family's legacy um as part of the agreement that the

5:21:25gc and the city had reached to restore some of the trails and active transportation network uh

5:21:31so i'm just curious if there's any interest uh after tonight to consider um sharing some of

5:21:38your family history with the city and with officials like myself right absolutely and i

5:21:44should mention my cousin is behind me who resides in guelph so absolutely okay now i look forward

5:21:50to chatting more with you guys and i would like to mention as well that um my background is in

5:21:55landscape architecture and i'm still very closely tied with the university of guelph's

5:21:59landscape architecture program and there are a lot of students that um are researching a lot of

5:22:03your history so it would be fantastic if you can share with them just some of that lived experience

5:22:09that you guys possess because i think that's quite valuable and can build on top of a lot of that

5:22:13trail network work that our staff is looking to undertake with the u r c a thank you thanks

5:22:20great nothing nothing further thank you very very much for coming we appreciate it okay

5:22:27so we're having a little bit of trouble getting a hold of andrea baker right now by telephone

5:22:32but for round two we have dr. he whitely that would like to join us so dr. whiteley i don't

5:22:39know if you there you are and we'll just wait to see if you can put the camera on and unmute for us

5:22:47hmm well you've unmuted a little better and you're you're we see your whole face which is perfect

5:22:54so over over to you dr. whiteley go ahead i'm delighted to say that i'm overwhelmed by the

5:23:05motion that council i hope will pass because it represents an amazing tribute to past city

5:23:15councilors to pick up the work again that has between 1965 and 1985 allowed this opportunity for

5:23:27the city of guelph to acquire a really treasured natural and cultural heritage location for the

5:23:37benefit of the ongoing generations so congratulations to everyone who formulated this motion it's amazing

5:23:48i would caution that the quality of the information that's been resented to the public on this issue

5:23:59has not been satisfactory and i'm hoping that the city might well adjust the

5:24:09the most recent web material to actually reflect what has gone on in the past and

5:24:19better guide council when they receive the proposed official plan and its uh zoning amendment

5:24:29but uh beyond making those improvements to the background information i again congratulate

5:24:38everyone who formulated this amazing motion thank you dr. whiteley let me see if there's a follow-up

5:24:48for you from my council colleagues there is not and again thank you very much for joining us very good

5:24:56uh is andrea baker no okay how about sarah christie by phone can you hear me

5:25:06hi sarah it's cam so yeah we can hear you you're coming through great thank you for joining us and

5:25:10i'll turn it over to you great thank you mayor gutery and counselors for allowing me to speak

5:25:16today and thank you for the updates before delegations began i am speaking today in support of

5:25:22the most recent updated recommendation that you just put forward for the 20 acres and we'll echo

5:25:26these previous delegates and uh their request to put forward for april 15th as well um a bit of a

5:25:34story i moved from atobico to guelph almost two years ago and since moving here i've jumped on

5:25:40every opportunity to brag about how much i love this city as you mentioned mayor gutery off the

5:25:45top it is a privilege to live here in guelph living in the gta was taking a toll on both my

5:25:50mental and physical health i lived on the side street where you think it would be saved from

5:25:55congestion but i was constantly honked at while trying to get into my own driveway uh the unpredictable

5:26:01traffic meant that running a basic airing could be 20 minutes it could be an hour and a half and

5:26:07towards the end of my time there i rarely had energy for any extra curricular outside of work

5:26:12so that meant that i didn't have energy to connect with my community i knew where my closest grocery

5:26:16store was i had one go to coffee shop but that's really about it when i moved to guelph i felt like

5:26:22i could finally put my shoulders down and breathe i live in word six near the court right

5:26:26waterfowl parkland and knowing that there's conservation land nearby has given me an excuse to

5:26:31get outside explore meet my neighbors and feel connected to my community one that i want to

5:26:37support and continue to be a part of one of the most exciting differences about walking around the

5:26:41area has been the volume of people who not only acknowledge you as you're walking by but are

5:26:46actually willing to stop and talk because that doesn't happen in congested areas your brain

5:26:50just goes into survival mode to complete the task and get home as fast and efficient as possible

5:26:56now as we've heard twice this evening doctors in canada have the authority to prescribe time in

5:27:01nature when i was living in a tobaccos this is one of the first suggestions a healthcare professional

5:27:06recommended for me now that i live in guelph i truly understand why i am proof that nature heals

5:27:13since moving here one pastime that i look forward to the most is walking around the corners of the

5:27:18handling creek and speed river and listening to the water and box breathing which you may know is a

5:27:23form of meditation or in my case it's prescribed medicine this has become a way for me to reset

5:27:29so i can continue to show up for my family my job and my community which is now guelph specifically

5:27:35my neighbors around the court right waterfowl park last year the un habitat issued a guidance paper

5:27:42on healthier cities and communities through public spaces in it their key takeaways were that green

5:27:47and open public spaces are crucial for enhancing the health and well-being of urban communities

5:27:52investing in public spaces and urban spaces can yield significant economic benefits by

5:27:57reducing health care costs incorporating public spaces into urban planning helps address spatial

5:28:02and environmental inequalities and public spaces play a vital role in fostering social cohesion

5:28:08and community engagement essential for mental health public green space is free medicine climate

5:28:14anxiety can feel paralyzing and it's something i know i'm not alone in feeling which is why i was

5:28:18so hopeful to learn that your government officially condemned ontario's bill five that tells me that

5:28:24you believe in the importance of living in harmony with healthy biodiversity i also know that i'm not

5:28:29alone in putting guelph on an environmental stewardship pedestal guelph is seen as green leaders

5:28:34and this is a critical opportunity to prove true to the name the privatization of public lands will

5:28:39negatively affect our mental health physical health put a strain on our community and is not in the

5:28:44best interest of guelph citizens so i again thank you for your recently updated recommendation

5:28:49and urge council to redesignate the 20 acres back to open space parkland thank you for your time

5:28:57thank you very much sarah and welcome to guelph

5:29:03let me see if there's a question for you okay there there is not at this time but we all hope

5:29:10to run into you on the street and actually have a conversation thank you okay take care

5:29:16uh next is phil oh hold on do we get a hold of andrea baker no okay we'll keep checking in

5:29:22is phil poffin poffin i hope i'm saying that right phil from environmental defense is going to join

5:29:27us by video um either um so phil i think i can hear you just don't see your video going on

5:29:40oh yeah we can see and hear you very nice to meet you thank you for uh for joining us tonight

5:29:49i'll turn it over to you you go right ahead good afternoon now when i started with the afternoon

5:29:55now evening uh mayor dothry and counselors uh i'm phil poffin and i um work on housing and land

5:30:04development and land use planning issues i manage the work and environmental defense along with uh the

5:30:11work regarding the whole environment Ontario environment program and environmental defense

5:30:16which is a national charity i've got years of experience prior to that as a private bar land

5:30:21use and environmental lawyer and as the land use uh planning environmental lawyer for government

5:30:27we have the go-to organization without any cuniery conflict of interest advise you on what

5:30:34laws and policies must change in cities like wildland provinces like Ontario in order to

5:30:39actually boost housing supply and and the housing shortage just go to warholmsbaster.ca

5:30:46all of you will have received my note addressing some of the serious and potentially harmful

5:30:52legal and technical misunderstandings that came into circulation over the past few weeks regarding

5:30:57the legal status of the current zoning that absurdly leaves the door open for residential

5:31:03development on a key part of the corporate waterfowl and i'm here to speak in support of the

5:31:10amended language of mayor dothry's motion which is aimed at addressing that issue that languages

5:31:18that staff be directed to report back with a city initiated amendment to fix that gap

5:31:26based specifically on the language of that proposed amendment and based on what

5:31:32concerned residents heard from the mayor and counselors i think most of you have understood

5:31:38you know the issues that we raised in our letter and taken them on board so that's good news

5:31:42just to reiterate first the logic that often makes municipalities reluctant to withdraw permissions

5:31:49granted at a proponent's request just doesn't apply at all because for whatever reason that due

5:31:57to some misguided thinking uh it's counsel itself that dreamed up this bad zoning on the site and

5:32:03that means the good news is that this mayor and counselor are purposely entitled to alter the

5:32:08city's policy in response to change conditions or simply a more complete understanding of

5:32:14wealth circumstance and secondly the city's wealth authority to protect lands that are now vulnerable

5:32:22as a result of new provincial regulations is not diminished by the fact that one such piece of land

5:32:28the land that's referred to uh in this particular motion from the mayor was the subject of an oil

5:32:34tea cell that's because due to the misjudgment of the previous mayor and council it was the city of

5:32:40wealth itself that made and was defending this risky zoning there this was a settlement where

5:32:46wealth this was not a settlement wealth was acquiescing to zoning uh demanded by a developer

5:32:54and it having given that concession it can't take effect uh this was wealth pushing for this

5:33:01and someone else not deciding not to proceed enforcing wealth to try and fix this so the

5:33:08fact that a few residents didn't continue forcing wealth to abandon the old policy a decade ago

5:33:14plainly it doesn't mean that wealth can't shift voluntarily uh knowing better now to a different

5:33:21and in in residence in residency better policy today these amendments to the official plan and

5:33:28zoning really should have been included in the same package of amendments as the rest of phase one

5:33:33of wealth's official plan update but given where we are in the agenda we've already voted on that

5:33:39question and given that this issue was overlooked in the original set of work

5:33:46this seems like a half decent alternative and so I'm urging you to vote right so even

5:33:55I just want to underline that the reason it would have been a good fit with the overall policy review

5:34:00is that because just like all the other amendments that are included in the official

5:34:04plan are included these amendments are necessary to protect wealth's interest in real changes to

5:34:10provincial law that have happened since the last opium and in particular Ontario regulation 594

5:34:17slash 22 plus 22 means that wealth can't any longer just rely on the fact that this is publicly

5:34:25owned conservation authority owned land uh as just common sense protection against development

5:34:32that means that what was a bad idea but didn't actually pose much risk to the property back in

5:34:382012 it was essentially a kind of a a soft or chen move now it really does endanger the property

5:34:46so the same rule that you know didn't pose much risk before now does and so in order to just

5:34:51restore the same level of protection under the new laws you have to

5:34:56okay uh uh Phil I'm sorry to interrupt Phil uh but that was your five minutes okay

5:35:05so I'm sorry I hate doing that but I did have to cut you off there I just wanted just a little bit

5:35:09over the five minutes but we definitely get the gist of what you're saying for sure let me just

5:35:14ask if there's a follow-up for you okay there is not at this time but thank you for waiting all night

5:35:22to be able to delegate we appreciate it thanks thanks for having thank you and uh Andrea Baker

5:35:30keep checking in no okay so our last uh delegation is uh Gina Lamel is Gina here

5:35:39okay thanks Gina thank you for coming and I'll turn it over to you okay thank you

5:35:54so my name is Gina Lamel and I am a lifelong resident of the city of Guelph much of what I am

5:36:02going to say or want to say has already been covered by the chorus of delegates speaking this evening

5:36:08and so I will be succinct but especially more so now that you've amended the motion

5:36:14thank you for having given a second sober thought to the unfortunate decision that was made years

5:36:21ago to designate this parcel of what was part of the court right waterfell park as residential

5:36:28circumstances in our community province and on the planet have changed dramatically since that

5:36:34fateful day I appreciate and am grateful for the amended motion and would encourage you all to vote

5:36:41in favor in support of it the decision you made today with respect to this amended motion

5:36:49recognizes present-day pressures needs and best practices including but not limited to our shortage

5:36:56of and need for parkland urban densification water supply and green spaces that support our health

5:37:03and well-being as well as our ability to deal with extreme heat the current housing residential

5:37:11designation on this parcel makes this piece of land incredibly valuable to a cash strapped GRCA

5:37:18and therefore puts it at risk of development thank you for recognizing this by press by sorry

5:37:26thank you for recognizing that this is a pressing issue and by moving up the timeline that said

5:37:32I too am requesting that this investigation into the process of redesignation be moved forward to

5:37:40April 2026 in my opinion there should be no discussion needed about whether or not the

5:37:47property should be redesignated but rather when and how the amended motion makes me hopeful that

5:37:54you agree finally as a taxpayer I'm very concerned annoyed and frustrated that a parcel of land

5:38:02purchased for the most part with my parents tax dollars is now being sold by the GRCA I don't

5:38:09want the privatization of conservation lands and based on what I'm hearing from others in this city

5:38:15I would say that Guelph doesn't want the privatization of conservation lands either

5:38:20I appreciate the financial pressures put on conservation authorities but disposing of and

5:38:26privatizing land that they have been entrusted with and to protect and conserve is counterintuitive

5:38:33I'm also worried that while the GRCA is the first to sell off land that it won't be the last

5:38:38conservation authority to do so for this reason my final ask to all of you is that you all advocate

5:38:46at the provincial level whenever and wherever possible for the restoration of funding mandates

5:38:53and jurisdictions to local conservation authorities so that they can continue their work that being

5:38:59to protect and preserve environmentally sensitive and significant lands and ecosystems and green

5:39:06spaces that they have that have been entrusted to them and to do this for all of us but also for

5:39:13future generations thank you great thank you Gina thank you very much you've uh you've finished us

5:39:20off but just before you go is there any questions for Gina at all no so again thank you very much

5:39:28okay everybody um so it is back to us I want more time Andrea Baker not available okay

5:39:35so it's back to us um so just uh I did say I would kind of speak to this a little bit

5:39:42at the beginning and so I just want to speak a little bit to it before we move on

5:39:48first of all I just want to say that I heard the kind of thank you Mayor Guthrie thing a few times

5:39:59but as a politician you know how much I love that but I just want to be really clear this is not a

5:40:07me thing okay it's an everybody thing and uh I do really want to say thank you to Councillor

5:40:15Billings like she really did help with this issue she's she's been she's been on this with me working

5:40:23along kind of side with me on this for quite some time and sometimes it's just a slow crawl a little

5:40:31bit just to kind of get to where where you need to go okay so um anyways so thank you very much

5:40:37to Councillor Billings and in helping with that but then there's been conversations amongst all of

5:40:43council too you know like independently staff and then of course the community okay so I just want

5:40:49to like make sure that that's stated out loud that this is an everybody issue and I think it's

5:40:56just only fair to make sure that that is is stated um I also want to just clarify a few things too

5:41:03and maybe I'll go to staff I don't know who but can jump in if I'm saying something incorrect here

5:41:09but uh you know obviously I've kind of worked on this issue uh to bring it forward and uh I'm

5:41:16just going to call it out right now um April can't happen um I asked okay uh it can't happen and the

5:41:25staff can maybe jump in on that a little bit but it is just uh it is a it is a capacity issue

5:41:32and and let me tell you this is how I kind of try to run my life independently which is I hate

5:41:37over promising and under delivering and you what you want to do is not to do that so uh I want you

5:41:45want to make sure that if you're bringing something that there's it's something that's doable and from

5:41:50staffing capacity issue April April's just it's not going to happen and I'm just being just up front

5:41:55about it just to tell everybody straight up about that um even q2 is very it's very difficult like

5:42:03there's a lot of work that is involved in this and there's a lot of work that's happening in the

5:42:08city already and this has kind of been added on for right reasons like that's not that's not under

5:42:14debate for right reasons but I just want to make sure that everyone is aware of that sort of timing

5:42:20issue because I did I did ask staff and engage with staff on that uh the other thing too is is that

5:42:26this is a process right like we have to we have to meet the planning act processes and that's a good

5:42:36thing because there are still touch points for public engagement for other people to be involved

5:42:43for feedback in the way the way that kind of the bouncing ball works on this issue you have to do

5:42:50certain things you can't you can't just skip stuff so it's a process it's a public one there will be

5:42:58people that are engaged on it maybe you here or maybe others which is a good thing right but we

5:43:03have to have that that process kind of moving forward um and so I just wanted to make sure like

5:43:09I did hear one counselor and I think it might have been an accident but say like because we're

5:43:14doing this like okay that is maybe the intent okay I wouldn't I wouldn't say anything otherwise

5:43:21but there's a process behind it that has to be fulfilled okay so I just want to make sure that

5:43:27that's an eyes wide open moment for everybody on this I think that's actually about all I wanted

5:43:33to make sure I talked about and so I think I'm good with that I'll go to staff to see if they

5:43:41want to say anything before I open it up for questions but I do know that counselor Billings

5:43:47and counselor Chu were willing to move in second the motion but is anyone on staff want to say

5:43:52anything or correct anything okay to our CAO yes so thanks mr. mayor I just wanted to there's a few

5:44:01other things that I just wanted to speak to based on the delegations that we heard um I did

5:44:06want to just say that we don't dispute the public record and how the land was acquired we absolutely

5:44:12respect that history um however it was in accordance with provincial municipal funding

5:44:19requirements of the day and that did not give the city or any of the municipality's ownership

5:44:28interest in that land so I just really wanted to clarify we are not as a city on title of that land

5:44:35and nor we acted as a land owner through the process the GRC owns all the lands and they

5:44:42control when and if that land is to be sold and just for clarity the remaining eight hectares or

5:44:50the 20 acres were not put up for sale with the rest of the land that we have previously announced

5:44:58moving forward on even though that land had been declared surplus so the work advanced by city staff

5:45:04to date has been consistent with the goals of what we heard today and that you know that the city can

5:45:12protect these lands for park and open space into the future understanding that they had been declared

5:45:19surplus to the GRCA's core legislative business and so this is really good news and I just I really

5:45:25wanted to say that out loud the work done today it really is great news as we're increasing our park

5:45:29land uh for a growing community um just to the point about um the the historical chronology

5:45:38I just really wanted to encourage the community that the city's website gulf.ca nisca parkland

5:45:44is where we have put um all the facts and the history about um all of the decisions related

5:45:51to the official plans over time and we'd really encourage the community to go there um also on

5:45:57our website is the link to the GRCA's website that also includes even more information on the work

5:46:05they've done over time on those lands um and and there's really I just also want to say this

5:46:12there's no historical error in the development of that 2012 official plan um nor any of the

5:46:20subsequent updates to the official plan since that time um all of the work has been uh there's

5:46:26been so much community engagement and professional planning advice gone into all those policies that

5:46:31we have today um and and that however does not prevent uh any future consideration or amendment

5:46:40but it doesn't call into question the um the excellent comprehensive op that we have in place

5:46:47so I just really wanted to say that um and and then there was also a comment about uh

5:46:53gulf's water capacity uh and I just wanted to remind the community that just last week at

5:46:58committee the whole we did present plans to ensure our water and wastewater capacity remain ahead of

5:47:04our plant growth uh out to 2051 including the dole lime areas so also just for clarity we do not have

5:47:14a concern in terms of the capacity for water uh and um we take it really very seriously because

5:47:22we are a groundwater community and so we are on it and there's even new policy coming into play

5:47:27to to further ensure that we've got the internal control mechanisms to manage that capacity for

5:47:33growth so um and then finally thank you Mary Guthrie for for clarifying the timeline uh April

5:47:40would really not be uh manageable um and even the the current Q2 is even quite aggressive for the

5:47:47for what you just said about community engagement in the process here so we will do our best uh we

5:47:52will be considering work plan uh impacts and uh you know we'll be in touch with the council on the

5:47:59on the timeline great thank you very much so um can I officially say out loud it's been moved

5:48:07and seconded by councillor Billings and councillor Chew yes okay is there any questions now to staff

5:48:15no oh just councillor Goller go ahead your worship just a point of clarification uh the original

5:48:23motion that was also on the website was to investigate a process I want to clarify the

5:48:27motion that's on the floor now is not to investigate a process but it's to make the change is that

5:48:31correct yeah let's throw the throw the motion right back up you'll see that that that's been removed

5:48:37okay you throw the throw it back up one more time third three third time's a charm okay and I think

5:48:49actually I'm glad if you don't mind can I speak for a second sorry so yeah process has been it's

5:48:53gone okay that that word is gone and it's it's um someone said uh one of the delegates said I think

5:49:00that that council should direct this that is that is exactly what it is when it when you see the

5:49:05word city initiated city initiated is by the direction of council okay so just just to be

5:49:12really clear on that and it is to amend okay so um but the process still has to play out

5:49:19okay the process has to play out so I just want to make sure that uh our like our planning staff

5:49:26just so everyone understands like our planning staff under their professional designation they

5:49:32have to have that sort of independence to be able to to do this work right so we got to let them

5:49:40gotta give them that room to breathe to be able to do this work through that process right and so

5:49:45and it does say right here to designate the parcel of land and then there's the address as open space

5:49:52in parkland not the residential that it is now does that help you go ahead yeah so and I just wanted

5:49:57to clarify when this comes back in q2 it will be for us to approve the change to to make that so

5:50:03there will be there'll be no other touch points we send it off to staff now and then it comes back

5:50:09as an update for us to approve is that correct that is the intent of this motion however we have

5:50:15to give the independence to our professional staff I don't want to I'm saying it properly just trust

5:50:22me on this I have to we we have to respect our professionalism of the staff and give them that

5:50:27space to do the report okay please just it's the way it works okay so I think that's just the way

5:50:35it has to be including that public engagement part as well okay um no other questions any

5:50:42comment before I call the vote okay councillor billings only because mr. mayor moving the motion

5:50:49so actually maybe I have too many comments but I've been dealing with this for quite a while

5:50:55so let me explain a bit ago the grca board dealt with the management plan for the niska lands

5:51:03and afterwards the media contacted me and said and I'm talking about the lands to the south

5:51:09that we're dealing with right now if I was happy with the decision and I commented saying I wouldn't

5:51:16exactly say I'm happy it was a predicament at the time because in the city's official plan we know

5:51:23that it is designated the site is designated uh residential and so I knew that the op update was

5:51:32coming to council soon so I figured I could just move an amendment at that time and then I was told

5:51:39by staff uh no and so now we have a separate item which is which is a good thing and I'm and I'm very

5:51:47thankful for but I do want to um give wholeheartedly thanks to dr. whiteley and susan watson for their

5:51:55persistency on the matter I mean they even delegated many times at the the g rca and Hugh I want to

5:52:02thank for sending all of the historical data to us and for susan I really appreciate you filing that

5:52:10freedom of information request as it was most helpful for me uh not only was it the financial

5:52:19contribution by the city of guelph were originally purchasing the niska lands the times have changed

5:52:25and because of recent legislation we as a city cannot acquire as much parkland dedication as we

5:52:31used to which makes the niska lands now even more valuable for future generations to come and enjoy

5:52:40so mr. mayor in 1998 pan hamill took me out to the court right lands and gave me a history lesson

5:52:49and also former mayor joe young said to me you know if you work hard and play well together

5:52:57it's amazing at what you can accomplish so mr. mayor I cannot thank you enough for listening to me

5:53:05and listening to me and all your hard work behind the scenes and taking the proposed

5:53:11redesignation idea to fruition it means a lot so we've all heard a lot we've all read a lot

5:53:19and at the end of the day sometimes you have to do the right thing and this motion in my opinion

5:53:25is doing the right thing so thank you mr. mayor okay thank thank you very much and councillor Allt

5:53:32as well please yeah thank you very much mr. mayor I do want to reiterate what councillor billings said

5:53:39but also express my thank you to our representatives on the g rca but most importantly

5:53:47with slightly apologies to the literally hundreds of people that wrote to me to whom I could not

5:53:55respond I want to thank them also for their advocacy on this issue it is really clear how much these

5:54:02lands mattered to the residents of guelph and how much personal history there is in these

5:54:08that led to this particular motion by you I appreciate that a ton as well that that we

5:54:16have before us it's the right thing to do and we are heeding well all those who are playing in the

5:54:24sandbox together thank you again to councillor billings for her remarks okay thank you very quick

5:54:36I lean and can handle story before I call the vote okay oh yes after councillor two goes first

5:54:47thank you mr. mayor I might not want to speak anymore but I will just because I've been tied

5:54:52to the hip with this file since I ran the first time almost four years ago now um ever since I

5:54:59saw that no trespassing sign on then on niska wrote I knew immediately we gotta get rid of this thing

5:55:04why is it sitting there for over a decade it shouldn't be this way two decades I'm mistaken

5:55:13I just want to say as well just to reiterate uh councillor Allt's comments uh there are a lot of

5:55:20things that happen behind the scenes that I wish I could share with you in full transparency as I

5:55:26try to do with my reports um but we have to follow governance and we have to respect our

5:55:33authorities and our staff within the GRCA not the city and in the time especially where

5:55:40governance and institutions are being challenged quite heavily we I believe we have a duty to

5:55:46reinforce integrity of our organizations I just want to say as well that we have a lot of staff at

5:55:53GRCA which I've gone to know over the past four years through attending the board meetings in

5:55:58Cambridge every month and I have to tell you a lot of them they work at the organization

5:56:03as a calling and a lot of them they're not looking to make money off of this okay and I think it's

5:56:10very important to stay on the public record because as a planner and as a landscape architect

5:56:16for a practitioner someone who's a designer it I I make courage my students all the time to look

5:56:23at the constraints around them and see what you can make out of it okay and that involves strategy

5:56:28that involves due diligence and that also requires a lot of good faith principles and I just say that

5:56:35as well because all the communications I put forward to the public on what we can do with the

5:56:42crystal ball in front of us is based off of planning framework planning principles best practices

5:56:49precedence and we have to follow those things okay we can't deviate from what the historical

5:56:55matter is and I think I want to also just say thank you to councillor Billings because she has

5:57:04that wealth of institutional knowledge so in my like myself wouldn't be able to catch up in and

5:57:10recall so I just want to thank her as well for the for the many conversations I've had with her

5:57:16and with the mayor and with my colleagues as well on this file and again it's not that we want we

5:57:21don't want to be transparent there's just a lot of legal confidential matters behind the scenes that

5:57:27we had to really ground truth and as a council that majority is newly elected from the last term

5:57:35or from the last election it's important for us to follow governance and I think that's been

5:57:43hammered in by my colleague councillor Busuttil who sits on the governance board right so

5:57:53I come to respect as well that we have to follow process we have to be strict we cannot deviate

5:58:00from process and for someone like myself who's young and who's very anxious to get things done

5:58:05it's very painful I could tell you but I think we have to honor the principle of

5:58:13reinforcing the integrity of our institutions because without that

5:58:17none of this great work could exist so I just again thank you for indulging me in this time and

5:58:22I look forward to hearing more about the history from the Hamilton's that are attended here today

5:58:27so thank you so much for being here and thank you for indulging me in

5:58:31of course comments yeah thanks councillor to thank you and so um thank you and I'm sorry I

5:58:36forgot to go to you um I just want to just very quick uh can and I mean him all uh story um

5:58:44I got a two two two of them I got elected first time as mayor and uh no one called me no one

5:58:55knocked on my door and uh but the first person to ever reach out to me was Ken

5:59:03and um he said I want to take you out for lunch I want to get to know you and um

5:59:10uh he took me around to all of the businesses in the city uh and to to meet all of the like

5:59:18owners and and I will never forget that like I couldn't believe it it was just uh such an honor

5:59:26but the second time it was to have tea in their house uh in the in the arboretum and um

5:59:34while it was there there was only two topics that they brought up the library

5:59:39and these lands like all like all of them right and I gotta find it it's it's somewhere I know I

5:59:47have it because I know I did not throw it out um but they had already pre photocopied for me

5:59:54a whole bunch of like the same articles that we've been kind of been sending on on this land

5:59:59and stuff like that we've been sent by others on this land and it gave me like a little like a

6:00:04little package and um and they they yeah they sat me down for the cup of tea and and they talked to

6:00:12me about the importance of of this land and and so it's always been sort of just kind of hanging

6:00:18there like like a fog in the background like it's just kind of hanging there and um and so anyways

6:00:25it just uh I just wanted to I guess I wanted to tell that story because I wanted to validate that

6:00:30it's accurate like this the stuff that that we've heard so I hope that these types of comments and

6:00:35this historical narrative is taken away seriously by staff as we continue to move forward on this

6:00:41and the public as well so thanks thanks for giving me that opportunity just to validate that okay

6:00:48we are at that time to call the vote is anybody against that's unanimous perfect so thank you

6:00:56very much we have one more very quick um it's just fixing something uh counselor Gibson uh brought

6:01:08the attention of our clerks um and to me um about some uh draft minutes that were accidentally

6:01:19written down incorrect and before they become permanent we need to correct the the record

6:01:25sort of now now what's happened since that was brought to our attention is that a few days later

6:01:33I found out that I was all also marked down incorrectly and then guess what a few days later

6:01:39after that counselor helzer also found out uh marked incorrectly uh accidents happen it's fine uh

6:01:48in my view it's fine it's up to council here but we have done we have we have corrected things

6:01:53like this in the past and I think uh it just bodes well for us to make sure that we are are correcting

6:01:59as we move forward uh and before I go to counselor Gibson um I just wanted to make sure that just

6:02:07just as a standard sort of practice moving forward uh for anybody that's chairing a meeting

6:02:14when a vote is called please make sure you when you say is anyone against that you don't just do

6:02:23account and then say pass or fail that you you say the last name okay like you actually say you know

6:02:31howzer guthrie goller richardson and chew and then and then that way it's on the record like it's

6:02:37it's actually captured and and the clerks have a better opportunity to sort of write that down um

6:02:44just because of the way hybrid works sometimes it sometimes the video doesn't show by accident

6:02:50like on the screen and so our clerks can't go back and sort of validate or whatever

6:02:55so it's really important as a chair just moving forward make sure you always state the last name

6:02:59of the people that are against that way it's just really clear and captured well all right with that

6:03:04I'll go to counselor Gibson uh to speak and move the motion for us please yeah thank you

6:03:12through you mr. mayor and seconded by councillor billings the following uh recommendations are

6:03:18put before you woke up last wednesday morning with a dozen or so notifications on my phone asking me

6:03:25why i voted the way i had had and i had spoken against the motions but i seemed to have voted for

6:03:29them i ran it down um it was reported wrong honest error i went back to the video to look to see if

6:03:37you could correct it just by video evidence and lo and behold i was not one of the four across the

6:03:42banner on the video and unfortunately the chair at the time didn't didn't say the names of the people

6:03:49who were for or against so we find ourselves in this predicament thank you very much to

6:03:54accounts sorry to clerks for bringing this forward so quickly on my behalf and i also wanted to thank

6:04:00our media partners who i've been discussing with i appreciate you correcting the record on this

6:04:06it goes to say it so that it was a consequential vote and i'm happy to make sure that my vote was

6:04:11recorded properly i appreciate it okay thank you um so it's for yourself and me and councillor

6:04:19hauser councillor Klassen did your hand go up or were you didn't want to move it or seconded

6:04:25i'm happy to move it but i think i need to propose a clause for because okay unfortunately i think

6:04:33that i was one of the people who was incorrectly um uh noted i voted in favor um for both clause one

6:04:45of the main motion and for clause two of the main motion yeah i actually remember seeing your hand i

6:04:52was sitting across away from you what's it say right now councillor Klassen i don't have it in

6:04:56front of me it does say that i voted against for both on both yeah interesting okay so um um

6:05:06can we just uh can we just have the clerks just write a clause for then would you do that okay

6:05:12just give us a moment everybody it doesn't change the outcome by the way anybody so we can still

6:05:18debate it at a council at the end of the month right so not a biggie okay just give clerks a

6:05:25second they're just writing it for you it might be better and cleaner if we just do all four in

6:05:34one vote so councillor gibson and billings would you mind just removing the motion that's on the

6:05:39floor sure and then i'm happy to move all four yeah okay christine you're good with that yep and then

6:05:48and and all second yep no problem uh to my council colleagues you're okay with the motion

6:05:54the main motion being removed right now okay great so yep so now we have the four that are up there

6:06:02including councillor Klassen at the end okay so all four have been moved by councillor gibson

6:06:09seconded by councillor billings anything further on this nope okay i'm gonna call the vote anyone

6:06:16against nobody okay unanimous councillor richardson lucky you you're doing our bylaws tonight

6:06:31oh hold on a second speak to the bylaws go for it yeah thank you mr. mayor and sorry for the

6:06:36interruption just a point of clarification because of the previous motions in regards to the or lands

6:06:44the first bylaw that was indicated on the agenda has been removed because we've given direction to

6:06:49come back oh yeah okay so just so that was aware we've we've already updated on the slide here but

6:06:54okay just want to but different from the printed agenda because we made that different decision

6:06:59correct earlier in the meeting no problem okay so if you could just read out loud what's on the

6:07:03screen for us councillor richardson then that would be correct yep that bylaws 2026-21197

6:07:0921211 21212 we approve subject to the sex to the section 284.11 subsection four of the municipal act

6:07:20okay great thank you uh seconded by councillor Allt thank you and i'm gonna call the vote is that okay

6:07:26everybody anything on those nope okay i'm gonna call the vote anyone against it's nobody so that is

6:07:33unanimous as well i bet you councillor hauser would love to move uh for adjournment and i bet our

6:07:43friends that are on screen councillor Caton would love to second that and so i will call the vote on

6:07:50adjournment does anyone against stopping this meeting okay that's nobody so that's unanimous

6:07:58as well thanks so much everyone have a great rest of the night