City Council

19:46Okay, let's go

19:50Okay

19:53Okay, call to order the meeting council meeting of

19:59Tuesday, June the 23rd 2006 and it was supposed to be at 6 p.m. So I'd like to

20:06Apologize to those who have been waiting for us to start we had a rather long previous meeting

20:12But we will start now. So first

20:14Call to order is the old Canada so you can stand if you're able

20:19Thank you

21:45I kept wanting to turn around to see who

21:52Thank you, so we'll take a moment for silent reflection now

21:56You know, I'm going to read the indigenous territorial acknowledgement

22:13As we gather let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live and work in Guelph

22:19So a city built over rich indigenous histories

22:22We are guests here and we should reflect upon the

22:26Responsibility to care for this land the people who live here today and the generations to come

22:32If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation

22:35We should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude

22:41This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place for refuge for many people

22:48Over time but more specifically for the Adder Wonderong and the Haudenote Choney

22:54This land is held as a treaty lands and territory for the missus with the missus agas of the credits first nation

23:01Guelph lies directly adjacent to the Haldeman track and is part of a long established

23:07Traditional hunting ground for the six nations of the Grand River

23:11Many first nations in New it and mateys people have come from across Turtle Island to call Guelph home today

23:18So are there any disclosures of

23:26Pecuniary interest

23:29Seeing none

23:31Could I have the confirmation of the open minutes of the meetings held May 12th?

23:3826 20 26 and

23:40made fifth

23:43That was committed but open committee the whole held May 5th be confirmed as recorded in well being read

23:50Counselor class and seconded by cons of Lucidville any questions comments

23:57None is any anyone opposed

24:00That carries

24:02Okay, we're gonna go first to the committee of the whole consent report now only

24:09Not the council when we do that separately

24:12to see if anybody wants any of the

24:17These items pulled so I'll just quickly read through what they are

24:223.1 the appointment of the closed meeting investigator 3.2 Ontario health

24:28multi-sector service accountability agreement declaration of compliance

24:32the procurement by law update

24:36The with glowing hearts program employer recognition of City of Guelph

24:42The outside water use by law update

24:46The recommendation report new fee structure for building permit applications would anybody like any of those items pulled

24:55Okay seeing none could I have a motion to approve them all Councillor Goller Councillor Richardson second

25:05Going once going no comments no questions great

25:09As anyone opposed to the consent

25:13No, thank you

25:15That carries

25:16So then we go to the council consent agenda where there's only one item

25:224.1 the paramedic service response performance 2025 and performance plan recommendation for 20 27

25:30To 20 26 and I know that Councillor Goller has a question regarding this

25:36Councillor Goller, would you like to put the motion on the floor first? Okay council seconded by Councillor Bursi

25:42Thank you through chair. I just to confirm. It's not a question just a comment if I may I

25:47wanted to thank city staff and our

25:52Paramedics team for the fantastic work that they're doing I wanted to highlight that between 2021 and 2025

25:58They have been able to increase the response times

26:01in the city of Guelph the

26:04For the 90th percentile and for the average response time by by nearly a minute in both cases

26:10So I think it's very impressive

26:11I think it's important for us to celebrate these

26:14These achievements and the great work that our first responders and our paramedics do in the city of Guelph and across

26:21Wellington County

26:22Thank you. Well said any other questions or comments

26:29Yeah, go to the motion is anyone opposed to the recommendation

26:34Seeing none that passes

26:38Okay, now we have the items for discussion and

26:41Presentation so the first one is the 2025 consolidated financial statements and external audit findings report and we'll have a

26:51Presentation from Tisha Kali Belgrave

26:55And

26:57Brendan Hall

27:01Welcome

27:02Good evening mayor Guthrie members of council and members of the public who are joining us

27:15I am pleased to be here today to present highlights from the 2025 consolidated financial statements

27:20I would like to thank all members of staff and our consolidated entities for their contributions to the city's audit and consolidated statements

27:28The audit process and preparation of the financial statements is a significant undertaking

27:32And I truly appreciate all the communication and collaboration with staff across the city and with our local boards

27:39The municipal act requires the city to engage independent auditors to an express and

27:44To express an opinion as to whether the financial statements fairly present the city's financial results for the year

27:51Every five years we put the audit work out to tender and 2025 is the first year of the new cycle

27:57The city undertook a competitive RFP process in 2025 for the appointment of the city's auditors for a five-year contract ending in

28:042029

28:06LLP was a successful

28:09Proponent and at the conclusion of my presentation Brendan Hall partner at KPMG will present the findings from their audit

28:16The consolidated financial statements present a full picture of the city and its consolidated entities finances which includes its assets

28:23liabilities revenues and expenses

28:27Last month the city presented the year-end budget focused results for operating capital reserves and debt

28:33The consolidated financial statements use the same set of data

28:36But adds in our consolidated entities results and presents the information in accordance with public sector accounting standards

28:47Along with the city's financials the consolidated statements include the Elliott community the downtown Guelph business Association

28:54Wellington Dufferin Guelph public health the Guelph Public Library Board the Guelph police services board Guelph Junction Railway and Guelph municipal holdings

29:03The statements are prepared by city staff in accordance with public sector accounting standards, which we refer to as PSAS

29:13These standards are set by the public sector accounting board of CPA Canada and require full accrual accounting

29:19Which differs from the city's budget focused reporting particularly in the areas of capital asset accounting debt and reserve transfers

29:27The financial statements received an unqualified opinion from KPMG

29:31Confirming they present fairly in all material respects the financial position and results of operations for the city

29:37As part of the audit process three corrected misstatements were identified all were below

29:43Materiality and were fully resolved before the draft financial statements were prepared

29:47Two of these were identified early in the audit by KPMG and staff are confident

29:51These would have also been identified through our normal year-end closed processes

29:55The third related to a capital project progress payment was identified through KPMG year-end transaction review

30:03Staff have developed enhanced processes to proactively identify similar items in future audits

30:09Overall the city maintains a strong system of internal controls and structured year-end closed processes

30:15Supported by multiple levels of review throughout the year as reported and approved by council in May for the 2025 year-end

30:26The city changed the revenue recognition method for development charge funded projects that are debt financed

30:32Under the revised revenue recognition policy

30:35Development charge reserve funds are drawn down as debt principle and interest payments are made

30:40This change improves alignment between cash flows and debt repayment more accurately reflects the actual availability of

30:47Development charge reserve fund balances and better aligns financial forecasting and financial reporting

30:53This required a retrospective restatement and the 2024 year-end balances have been restated accordingly

30:59The statement of financial position is a snapshot of what the city and its consolidated entities own along with everything that is owed

31:10In 2025 the city continued the trend of increasing financial assets faster than financial liabilities

31:17Overall net financial assets increased by 14.5 million as growth in financial

31:22assets outpaced increases in financial liabilities on

31:26The financial assets side growth and accounts receivables related to grants from upper levels of government

31:31the timing of debt issuance for major capital projects under construction and strong 2025

31:37financial performance from gjr and gmhi contributed to the increase on

31:42The financial liability side the city's debt balance increased due to new debentures issued to fund the south end community center and Baker district projects

31:51Employee future benefits increased by 8.3 million largely due to an updated wsib actuarial valuation

31:58reflecting current claims experience a

32:00Reduction in the deferred contribution liability

32:03Offset those increases mainly due to a recognition of development charge revenues for growth related infrastructure

32:09The investment in tangible capital assets increased by a hundred seventeen million year over year a

32:18Significant driver of this increase is progress on the construction of the south end community center and Baker district

32:24The city continues to invest heavily in its capital program

32:27Which will result in a changing financial position over the coming years

32:31Including drawing down capital reserves and increased reliance on debt financing consistent with the debt with the approved debt strategy

32:38The city may transition into a net debt position over time as capital investment continues

32:43But is well positioned to manage these transitions

32:46The statement of operations lists all revenues earned and expenses incurred within the fiscal year

32:57Overall revenues increased by seventy nine point five million in twenty twenty five compared with twenty twenty four

33:02The key revenue lines contributing to this increase are grant revenues which increased by twenty six point eight million as a result of multiple grants from provincial and federal

33:11Governments that are supporting capital investment in the golf community

33:15Taxation revenues which increased by twenty four and a half million and development charge revenues which increased by twelve point six million

33:22This slide shows the city's revenues by type from the chart

33:29We can see that taxation and user charge revenues account for the majority of revenue that the city receives

33:35These two sources alone make up approximately sixty seven percent of total revenues

33:39We can also see the significant increase in government contributions and developer revenues from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five

33:55Overall expenses increased by thirty one point six million in twenty twenty five

33:59With twenty five point eight million of that growth attributable to compensation

34:04As noted in last month's year-end operating budget report key drivers include new collective agreements for QP 973 and 241

34:12increased temporary staffing

34:14Overcomplement hires and overtime to support city operations amidstaffed leaves and recruitment challenges

34:21Employee future benefits, which is also reported in the compensation section of the funding of the statement of operations

34:27Rows by eight point three million primarily due to higher workplace safety and insurance board claims

34:33Outside of compensation

34:35operational expenses vary year to year based on service needs in

34:392025 purchase services increased mainly due to overall higher capital projects spending a

34:44Portion of which is not defined as tangible capital assets under p.s. S

34:49This chart shows expenses by type and we can clearly see that compensation remains the largest driver of year-over-year expense growth

35:00followed by purchase services as a reminder

35:10Sustainability vulnerability and flexibility are the city's three long-term financial framework pillars used to assess financial health and resilience

35:18I will now go through a few key metrics that we have not already already previously discussed through the budget reporting last month

35:25The first metric under the sustainability pillar is the cash and investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio

35:35The cash to reserves ratio is the indicator of the city's ability to meet its obligations

35:40The minimum target for this ratio is one to one which means for every dollar in reserve and reserve funds

35:45The city has one dollar in cash and reserves a higher ratio indicates stronger ability to meet current obligations in

35:522025 the cash and investments to reserve and reserve funds ratio is one point zero two to one

35:58Which remains above the minimum target?

36:00This is a decrease when compared to 2024 and as a result of new debt issuances in 2025 and the change in revenue recognition

36:07policy for development charge debt

36:10The next metric is net financial assets

36:13Total consolidated net assets increased by fourteen point five million in 2025. This increase was due to financial assets increasing more than financial

36:22Liability this sorry this increase was due to financial assets increasing more than financial liabilities

36:28Due to gross and accounts receivable the cash and investments balance as well as the city's investments in GMH and GJR

36:36The final metric under this pillar is the asset consumption ratio

36:39Which tells us how our assets have aged in the fiscal year an increasing consumption ratio tells us that our assets are aging faster than we are replacing them

36:48The asset consumption ratio decreased in 2025 which tells us that the cities

36:53The the cities invested in capital assets at a higher rate than previous years

37:03Within the vulnerability pillar the first metric is federal and provincial contributions as a percentage of total revenues and

37:102025 the contributions from federal and provincial governments increased to 18.5 percent of revenue

37:15This increase is related to several investments in capital infrastructure from upper levels of government

37:21This percentage can vary year to year based on the type and amount of government funding received in the year and the timing of revenue

37:28recognition for capital projects which is linked to the execution of capital projects that the grant funding is supporting

37:35These grants are extremely helpful to move the city's capital program forward

37:39However a significant number of these grants provided our application based one-time grants rather than stable ongoing sources of funding

37:47The city monitors this metric to maintain visibility over reliance on grant funding versus own source revenues

37:55Taxers as a percentage of taxes levy is an important financial indicator of municipal economic health and

38:01Indicates the ability of taxpayers to meet their financial obligations

38:05This metric decreased to three point two nine percent in 2025 from three point six three percent in 2024

38:11In comparison with other municipalities the cities continues to have extremely low levels of tax arrears

38:17Further information on the city's taxes receivable can be found in the 2025 property tax receivables and collection information report

38:25released in February 2026

38:27The final metric undervolunt vulnerability is the return on investment the city's return on investment was three point five six percent in

38:352025 which is a decrease from 2024 the decrease is primarily driven by declining market rates as

38:43well as

38:44strategic investment

38:46dispositions for one time realized gains in 2024

38:50The third pillar of the long-term financial framework is flexibility

38:54The metrics associated with this pillar are related to the city's reserve and reserve funds

38:58Which were included in the 2025 year and reserve and reserve fund report provided in May

39:03So we have not included those metrics in today's presentation

39:10Thank you for the opportunity to present highlights from the 2025 consolidated financial statements

39:15My hope is that you were able to take away that the city remains in a stable position at the end of 2025

39:21Although there are challenges ahead on many fronts

39:23We continue to monitor and manage risk

39:25Report on progress and provide our best advice to council as we work towards sustainable delivery for our community

39:32Today we are asking you to approve the consolidated financial statements and attachment one of the staff report. I

39:38Will now turn the presentation over to Brendan Hall partner at KPMG to discuss the findings from the 2025 audit at the conclusion of his

39:46Presentation both Brendan and staff will be happy to answer any questions you have. Thank you

39:53Thank you very much

39:54Just looking can my slides come up or just looking to confirm the presentation here

40:28Maybe just give us a minute or two. We'll make sure we can pull up the right for it. Thanks

40:57Perfect. Thank you very much. Thank you for the introduction as well Teja. So my name is Brendan Hall

41:02I'm a partner with KPMG and with me

41:04I have Madhu who is a senior manager and an instrumental on the audit this year for Guelph and many of the

41:10subsidiary entities as well that are consolidated into these consolidated financial statements

41:15Our plan will be to walk through our audit findings report and happy to take any questions that

41:22That you may have so really as overall highlights here

41:32Teja indicated we do have some corrected adjustments that have been reflected in in the consolidated financial statements

41:39We're gonna walk through some of the significant risks that we

41:43Operated with during the audit and we're also gonna focus on what we refer to as areas of audit focus where the team spent

41:49large areas of time based on either materiality levels or

41:54Areas that are deemed to be a bit more complex within the financial statements in terms of the status of where we are at today

42:08We are what I would call at the 95%

42:11Completion standpoint so there are few administrative elements that we would expect to be

42:15Outstanding at this stage

42:17Receive a few of the final legal letters

42:19So we communicate with the lawyers that the city uses to ensure we're aware of any outstanding litigations

42:25And in topics of such the other items on here with respect to the testing of journal entries testing of TCA additions and

42:33Development charges I can happily report have all been completed in the past week since this report was shared

42:38For mailing purposes, so we're getting very close to being in a position to issue our opinion on the financial statements

42:44And Madhu I'll get you to walk through a couple slides and then I'll take it back over

42:53Thanks Brenda

42:55Starting with management override of controls

42:57this is a presumed risk in all the audits and we have completed the procedures

43:04Now since we issued the report for the for the filing purposes

43:09So the procedures included we tested the design and implementation over the controls around the journal entries and

43:16We selected procedures the selected journal entries where we think the significant risk and

43:23We tested hundred percent of all the high risk criteria journal entries and we perform

43:30completeness procedures over the journal entries and

43:33There were no issues or findings identified in this procedure and the next one is the

43:45Post-employment benefits this area involves significant estimate and

43:51management we assessed the key assumptions used to

43:56Come up with the post-employment benefits

43:58We tested the underlying data and leveraged the actual real specialist as a part of the procedure

44:04Based on the completed audit work. We did not identify any audit findings or misstatements in this area

44:11Now I'll hand it over back to Brenda. Thank you

44:16Tangible capital assets is a very material number in the consolidated financial statements

44:22And we do a number of procedures to ensure that that figure is accurate

44:27Additions the city each year obviously constructs significant assets

44:32Also does repairs and maintenance to existing assets

44:35So we have a few different procedures that the engagement team performs

44:37We run statistical sampling on the additions that have been capitalized during the year to ensure that those meet the definition of a

44:44Tangible capital asset and shouldn't have been expensed in the statement of operations

44:48We also on the inverse side of that

44:51We're looking at what has been expensed in repairs and maintenance type general ledger accounts to ensure there aren't items that are

44:58Actually being expensed that would have a multi-year benefit

45:01It should have been capitalized onto the balance sheet. We also perform

45:06Substantive analytical procedures on the amortization expense that's recorded during the year so again

45:12Under PSAB were required to capitalize those capital assets and then we basically reflect the consumption

45:19Or deterioration of those assets over a period of time so in these financial statements

45:23You have amortization expense a sizable number. That's really a non-cash expense

45:28But reflecting the utilization of your assets over time so in capital assets. We perform a number of different procedures

45:36Again really from the standpoint that that's such a large number on your on your statement of financial position

45:41No issues were identified in the performance of our testing in this area

45:48obligatory reserve funds and deferred revenue again significant topic as Tisha indicated the city went through a process this year

45:56in terms of changing their accounting policy for the recognition of

46:01Development charges specifically related to projects that are funded

46:04With external with external debt and so our team was involved in working through that adjustment

46:10That's reflected in the financial statements, but on a recurring

46:15Normal side of the testing

46:17There's again a host of procedures that we are doing so our team again on a statistical sample basis was involved in testing

46:25What I'll use casual language and refer to the inflows to the obligatory reserve so testing the developers

46:31Contributions the DC collections ensuring we're vouching those back to cash

46:35And and executed agreements and then on the other side the realization of of DC revenue

46:41ensuring that there's evidence that

46:44Projects were expended within fiscal 2025 and those projects met met the definition

46:51And were development in nature right so the only way that we can record that DC revenue is if the funding was used for a DC

46:57eligible

46:59Expenditure so testing is performed on both sides

47:01The inflows and the outflows

47:04To get comfortable with the ending balance of the obligatory reserves as at December 31st 2025

47:13Contaminated sites was was a new accounting standard that came into into play a couple years ago

47:18Again there. There's definitely estimation involved there the activity in terms of the 2025 financial statements

47:25For the most part reflect accretion or the passage of time and so our team

47:30Reviewed the entries that have been recorded to increase that obligation on your financial statements to reflect that

47:37obligations

47:38To to satisfy today are more expensive than they would have been a year ago

47:42So that accounting standard requires us to present value those obligations

47:46And so you would expect that that obligation is going to accrete or grow over time until

47:52elements are settled

47:56asset retirement obligations

47:59Some similarities to arrow. Sorry to contaminated sites

48:03Again, we reviewed management estimates for the arrow

48:07We tested any of the new additions to the arrow and we tested the calculations with respect to the accretion of those

48:14Obligations in the financial statements and we did not identify any issues in the performance of our testing procedures

48:21Cash and investments a large asset on your balance sheet or statement of financial position

48:28our team maintains full custody of

48:31Confirming those balances with the financial institutions that hold the city of Guelph's investments and cash balances

48:37We maintain the submission and receipt of those of those

48:41Confirmations and we ensure that what is reflected in the city's financial statements and general ledgers consistent with what we're receiving directly from

48:48Those financial institutions and there were no no issues identified with respect to those procedures

48:54We also tested significant government contributions

49:00To ensure that the criteria in those transfer agreements have been met by the city in order to realize the revenue that's been recorded in fiscal

49:082025 in addition to testing the revenues that are recorded in 2025

49:13Our team specifically around revenue and grants in particular

49:17We focus on a cutoff standpoint as well

49:19So we actually look at some of the transactions that are happening late in 2025 to ensure that they are appropriate to be recorded in

49:262025 and we also actually look at some of the first transactions in

49:292026 to make sure those shouldn't have actually been accrued for or reflected in 2025 and we didn't identify

49:36Issues with respect to the testing in those procedures either so we don't have any new accounting policies

49:45We do have a change with respect to the

49:48Development charges that we've spoke to and that Tisha spoke to as well before our presentation

49:53But really not a new standard year like some of the previous years have been with respect to contaminated sites

50:00arrow financial instruments

50:02And things like that quieter year on the PSAS PSAS front

50:06So the last section that I will

50:13Plan to walk through here

50:15Just trying to get to the slide

50:18Would be with respect to the adjustments that Tisha indicated have been corrected for in these financial statements

50:23So again, I would agree with the statement that a couple of these adjustments really were identified as we're performing

50:31Testing on the general ledger balances and I do feel that a couple of them would have been identified through the consolidation process

50:38again the

50:40One related to just a reclass between where an entry was parked so

50:45Accounts receivable as opposed to inventory no impact on the statement of operations or the P&L

50:51The item three on the list is with respect to again, I would call that a bit of a cutoff

50:58Timing entry so there's TCA that we feel were understated at the end of the year and also in a cruel

51:03So we've got an asset and a liability

51:05No impact on the statement of operations and then the first item on the list

51:09Was really a duplication of an entry that again?

51:13I think would have been identified at the consolidated

51:16Level but again, we found it in our testing and we have to report it to this group

51:20So I'd be happy to answer any questions if there are any from the group

51:26Okay. Thank you very much the presentation. Are there any questions for the

51:33Councillor Karen

51:36Yes, thank you a great presentation and

51:39As chair of corporate services, I'm not surprised at the at the results because I know you're measuring not just our statements themselves

51:46But all the processes and in the background of the foundation of how they're built and I know we have an amazing

51:54Financial team at the city. So this just underlines the good work that they're doing

51:59My question is, you know, one of the things that this council is very proud of

52:04And that we work really hard to protect is our triple a credit rating

52:08And I just wondered whether there was and debt to reserve ratio and our processes are part of what what is built into those standards and

52:18Poor's measurements and I know you are not standards and poor's but I'm just wondering if there's anything and anything you found

52:24That might have impact on us maintaining our triple a credit rating

52:30Yeah, so I

52:32As an auditor, I don't know that's really an area that I can speak to in terms of the credit rating

52:37I think you know when I'm looking at a set of financial statements, and I'm seeing you know positive positive incomes generated growth in financial

52:45Assets as the finance team indicated those would be two positive

52:50indicators in my in my view, but really don't feel I'm kind of

52:54Credited to speak to how a credit rating would would be derived, right? Yeah, no, I understood I just

53:01Any of those flags in a report like this

53:05We would take back to our finance team in order to protect that credit rating

53:08So thanks very much for your findings and good news all around

53:13And thank you mayor Guthrie

53:16question

53:19Thank You Madam Chair

53:21No, I just wanted to

53:24Quickly respond to councillor Caron, which is not a question to our good people of auditing

53:30So I will stop there and let you continue with counselors that might have questions

53:35But come back to me for a comment if you don't mind before wrap up

53:39I'll think about that

53:42Is there any other questions for

53:47Particia or Brendan

53:50Seeing none Wow, I think we're all talked out

53:53So

53:56Okay, thank you very much and we'll go right to our motion. Thank you for your time. Thank you

54:06So we do have a motion to

54:09For the it to be approved for their consolidated financial statements and external audit finding report be approved

54:16We have somebody online who wants to do that

54:19Councillor Billings seconded by mayor Guthrie

54:25Okay, so I'll go to you mayor Guthrie. Okay. Thanks madam chair

54:34Look, look just this is a reminder to everybody

54:38For two years in a row now at every budget

54:42Council has passed unanimously a recognition

54:46That our triple-a credit rating may be under risk

54:50It was a unanimous vote of everyone

54:54Because of the efforts we've been putting into infrastructure and the housing crisis and

55:01We were balancing the acts of of sort of what we could do within our pro policy within the capacity that we have

55:09Which by the way were under

55:12Policy from the province well under sort of that space that capacity that's there

55:17We're very financially good there

55:20but

55:22You know, I will say it was

55:25It's something that is you know on our minds and on our radars both collectively as a council and as staff

55:32Two years in a row now and it's been maintained as a triple-a credit rating

55:38Which is we should all celebrate in high five and virtual high five to everybody on that

55:43but

55:44just I just want to make sure that

55:46I just want to make sure that there's a little bit of a nudge here for all us to recall

55:51that

55:52We have unanimously two years in a row stated there could be

55:56A little bit of a a change in our credit rating, but it was methodical

56:02It was a

56:03Balanced risk as to the why

56:06We would do that for the good reasons and benefits as to why so just want to make sure that that was reminded

56:14To everybody before we kind of move forward just in case in august

56:19is when the credit ratings come out for us and

56:24You know, what's you know, we'll hope that everything is fine there, but uh, you know, just just be aware and

56:30I can leave it with staff if they think i'm saying something wrong

56:33But I just wanted to make sure that reminder was was tabled just because the conversation was brought up. Thank you

56:42Thank you. Does anybody on staff want to say anything to add to that?

56:48Through you or to chair downer to the mayor

56:51Yeah, thank you for saying that the only thing I would add is just that also the

56:55In our strategic plan the strategic priority in the the kpi is actually to

57:00To at least maintain a double a plus rating and so we are above our target

57:06And so just just to add to the the data side of of that

57:12We are targeting we are above our target right now. So thank you

57:17Thank you. Are there any other questions?

57:22Okay, so we'll let's go right to the vote is um, is anyone opposed

57:28To the motion on the floor. Okay. Nope that carries. Thank you. Thank you very much for coming out tonight

57:35And I gain apologies for having to wait so long

57:39Um, okay, we're going to go on to 5.2 usage of city hall as an overnight warming and cooling center

57:47And this item was pulled from the may 22nd

57:51Information items and councillor Caton will speak to the site and beat and then we'll go to the dell to the dell

57:58delegations

58:02Thank you. I have a motion

58:05seconded by councillor busetel that I'd like to have

58:08So can we just hold on the motion yet? I just well we'll have the motions after the delegations

58:15But if you could sorry but for before the delegations speak if you want to speak a bit to this item

58:21To introduce it to them

58:23Because there's no reports or anything

58:26Yeah, um, so

58:28We just saw a record number of people using city hall as an overnight shelter when it was open

58:34At night during extreme weather warnings and those who reached out to me listed a number of barriers. They had

58:40accessing the services

58:42There was a lack of clarity on alternatives in the case of access barriers

58:47from the residents that I spoke with so

58:50I'm just looking to talk about having

58:54The county provider review of their processes provide a publicly available document

58:59So prop so processes are transparent to those who need the services or are supporting them

59:04and potentially creating a 24 access

59:07line for people in need who can't physically attend the shelters who need help either for long-term planning

59:12Or for an immediate need in case of extreme weather

59:15And I know that like all the municipalities and agencies involved in the service want to ensure everyone has a safe

59:21Access for a place to sleep and I think that clear processes will help achieve our shared goal

59:26So that's why I pulled this motion or pulled this report to talk about

59:31Great. Thank you. Okay. We're going to go to our delegations now and the first one is morgan

59:36Dandy is she here or is she online?

59:41She's online. Okay

59:54Through you madam chair. We have the delegate morgan dandy online morgan. You'll just need to

59:58Unmute and turn on your video if you'd like to participate with video

1:00:07Do you hear us morgan?

1:00:13Perhaps madam chair. We could go to the next delegate and then circle back with morgan at that. Okay. Let's go to michelle bowman

1:00:20and then we'll

1:00:33so miss bowman, you know the

1:00:36The rules right there five minutes and then 30 seconds before you'll get a warning. Thank you go ahead

1:00:42Okay, thanks very much for the opportunity to speak

1:00:46Today I came with a very simple ask

1:00:50that council consider recommending

1:00:53That the information

1:00:55on fed through or weather alerts related to adverse health outcomes

1:01:01Be published on the city's website and also on the county's website. So these are yellow orange and red alerts that

1:01:10represent increased risks of adverse health outcomes

1:01:15I just want to clarify that

1:01:18throughout this whole process of

1:01:20um

1:01:22Putting the delegation together that I never expected

1:01:26This information to trigger any kind of response that is outside that described in

1:01:34Councillor Caton's motion or the staff report

1:01:37So it was simply for information that I think is really important

1:01:43For unsheltered people and their support networks to have and to be aware of

1:01:50Um, so before I start with that, I just like to say I support

1:01:54Councillor Caton's motion. I think it's really important that

1:01:58We ensure that no individuals fall through the cracks. We know that people have been falling through the cracks

1:02:05Um, but I support the motion with one caveat and that is that the city

1:02:11And think about a backup plan if the county is unable to deliver

1:02:17on filling those cracks

1:02:19So it's been clear for a number of winters

1:02:23Um, that the public has no appetite to leave people out in the cold and these adverse

1:02:30weather

1:02:32situations

1:02:33so on to

1:02:35Weather events the focus on the city website and also on the county website

1:02:41especially the county website

1:02:44Is on heat and cold alerts

1:02:47But there are many other alerts issued by the federal government

1:02:52um

1:02:53And I'd like to draw particular attention to

1:02:57the orange alerts. So these

1:03:00Events are uncommon, but we do see them through every season

1:03:05And they are consequential to unsheltered people

1:03:09so

1:03:10Things examples include in the winter ice and snow accumulation

1:03:15Um, and it was actually during one of our typical ice storms that we get a couple times of winter

1:03:22When I rectinize this disconnect in focusing on temperature alone

1:03:28Anytime we can have

1:03:30increased winds or decreased visibility

1:03:33And in the summer we have thunderstorms and heavy rainfalls. I think this summer will be

1:03:40particularly

1:03:42Important to consider these because we're now officially in an El Nino event, which means

1:03:48It'll be a wetter and cooler summer

1:03:51And thunderstorms and heavy rainfalls will be more significant

1:03:56Um, so just a couple of examples of how this might relate to unsheltered people

1:04:02Tents collapsing or washed away a lot of people camp right near the rivers

1:04:07Which can be really dangerous rivers can

1:04:10increase flow very quickly

1:04:13Especially in saturated conditions if we get lots of rainfall

1:04:17So those are just two examples of how this matters to unsheltered individuals and the people trying to support them

1:04:25So I'll just repeat where I started

1:04:27I'm hoping that council will recommend that the information on how these federal weather alerts relate to adverse health outcomes

1:04:36Can be published on the city and county websites

1:04:40And it would simply be a short paragraph a couple two or three

1:04:45Um sentences

1:04:46With the links that I've provided in my written delegation. Thank you

1:04:52Thank you. Are there any questions of miss bowman?

1:04:56Seeing none. Thank you very much

1:04:59Do we want to go back to uh, mcgin dandy?

1:05:04Okay, morgan. Are you there?

1:05:08You press uh

1:05:11I'm mute six

1:05:20Hello, I think it has there we go

1:05:23There you go. Okay, we can hear you

1:05:27The video might start. I don't know

1:05:31Thank you so much chair downer for this opportunity to address council with regard to

1:05:37having

1:05:39a report

1:05:40on

1:05:41how people

1:05:43Are let into or not let into our current shelter provider

1:05:48One of the things that I have learned

1:05:51through being

1:05:53within the community

1:05:55spending time at royal city mission

1:05:57spending time at stepping stone talking to people on the street

1:06:01Talking to people that are living in tents in various locations throughout the city

1:06:08There are definite barriers and a lot of people don't understand

1:06:14Why

1:06:15they're being

1:06:17Disallowed from going into places

1:06:20I've recognized that this has become more difficult post covet. It's become more difficult

1:06:28since

1:06:29There are more people

1:06:31needing

1:06:32shelter

1:06:34And when there is a conflict

1:06:36between one individual and another individual

1:06:40That's happened elsewhere

1:06:43Sometimes they're not aware

1:06:46that that person's in the shelter and then they arrive there

1:06:51And they're turned away

1:06:54There are so many different reasons

1:06:56That people need to go into a shelter and I have told council before

1:07:02I've been at a point where

1:07:05I was afraid I was going to lose where I was living

1:07:11At which point I would not be able to go into the shelter system because I have a service dog

1:07:16My service dog alerts

1:07:18Every time somebody moves around me in an unfamiliar space

1:07:22That would not be fair to everybody else that is accessing the space

1:07:28So I don't feel like I can actually use the shelter if it's something that I really needed

1:07:36By having a full accounting of why

1:07:42people are turned away

1:07:44It gives individuals a better opportunity to be able to manage their lives

1:07:51I really hope that council will support this motion by councillor Caton

1:07:58because

1:08:00The city needs to have a better understanding

1:08:03Of how the shelter system functions. Thank you. Thank you. Are there any questions for

1:08:12Miss dandy seeing none. Thank you

1:08:18We'll go now to alex purts

1:08:21Yeah, first of all

1:08:39There was a report came out. It was on may 26

1:08:43I need to apologize first of all to some of the city staff

1:08:47Because I read that wealth today post in the morning

1:08:50As soon as I woke up had to had my first coffee and I was a little bit upset when I read it

1:08:55And the first thing I did is that I came down to city hall did a video right off the bat

1:09:00Did it all in one take and it was a little bit sharp

1:09:04But is it I was angry when I read it and there's some points I want to be able to make

1:09:10First of all, we're talking basically about 30 40 people at the max

1:09:15That right now in the winter time

1:09:18That when the weather's bad they have nowhere to go

1:09:21To be able to say that they could just go to stepping stones. They can't

1:09:26Some of the people that won't go to stepping stone is because they are trying to deal with their drug addiction and everything else

1:09:33And there are people that are within the housing system

1:09:36Shelter system that

1:09:38Are detrimental to them

1:09:40There's at least four girls that I know personally that they will not go there because their formal abusers

1:09:47Are actually in those systems. So to re victimize them saying you have to go there

1:09:55where they are is

1:09:58It puts them in a really bad position

1:10:00There's at least two couples that I know that

1:10:03He or she is either 25 26 and the other one is 23 and 24

1:10:10That stepping stone has a policy you have to be 25 years of age in order to go into their housing

1:10:16So for them to be able to do it, they have to be split up. They can't be together. So there's that age about their variance

1:10:22It comes in as well

1:10:25One of the other things is that

1:10:27Um in the report that was given by golf today. It said that it cost

1:10:32$2,700 a night

1:10:34In order to house them in the lobby here

1:10:38Uh, I do a little bit of auditing and I tried to work the numbers in my head for one security guard to be coming on board

1:10:45And it said two bylaw officers and to flick three or four switches

1:10:52$2,700 a night seemed

1:10:55I I couldn't make the math work

1:10:57Even later on when they brought in a paramedic

1:11:01As well because there was one issue in the in the washroom that took place

1:11:05So they brought in a paramedic for the last two or three times

1:11:10Again, I wonder if that was necessary the paramedic stations a block away

1:11:14The police stations a block away the fire stations two blocks away is that they have more than enough ample time to be able to come here

1:11:23um

1:11:24the other thing

1:11:26To to just say that we're going to close

1:11:30City hall without having an alternative for these people

1:11:35That's what that's what got me angry

1:11:38If there was an alternative like, you know, hey, we're going to open up 20 of the cells

1:11:43at the police station

1:11:45And they can go there and do whatever or we're going to

1:11:50You know allow them to be able to go somewhere else. I could completely be on board with that

1:11:55But just to be able to say we're shutting down city hall and we don't have an alternative

1:12:01And we're you know, we'll just deal with as we go along

1:12:05is

1:12:06it's just bad planning and

1:12:10Just two other things as well is last winter

1:12:14We got down the minus 27 degrees wind chill was minus 32 33

1:12:20depending when you looked at it

1:12:22is that

1:12:24Twice I had to call city hall to find out whether the warming center was going to be open or not

1:12:29This one it got down to minus 20 and the decision had not been made

1:12:33At 1 32 o'clock in the afternoon

1:12:36These people end up going to the royal city mission

1:12:39For lunch and for supper

1:12:41Someone will go to stepping stone

1:12:43Then you know till 2 o'clock and then they're going to be moved out of there

1:12:48It would be better if we had a threshold

1:12:51Toronto does it berry does it kinkston does it london does it own sound does it

1:12:58So a Sudbury does it

1:13:00Most cities have a threshold

1:13:02That when you get down to minus five degrees or minus 10 degrees whatever that target is going to be

1:13:08That people know that the warming center is going to be opened up

1:13:12Is we had two three o'clock in the afternoon

1:13:16People didn't know whether a warming center is going to be open should be a mandatory threshold

1:13:21No matter what the result is going to be or where these people end up going

1:13:25That they know most of them don't have a phone. They don't have internet

1:13:29They rely on people from royal city mission or the library or stepping stone telling them

1:13:36Hey, yeah, it is this place is going to be open. Okay. Thank you. Time is up. Are there any questions of the

1:13:43Don't it. Okay. Thank you very much

1:13:47Um, I just before we go to councillor kate and I just want to know if there's anything staff want to say in regards to what delegations have said

1:13:55I mean, I'm I'm aware that it's not that they don't have other places to go. So I just want to have that quarter by

1:14:02Sure, uh through the chair to councillor so certainly, um

1:14:05I think what the report that is was before you the information report

1:14:09Recognizes that there is need in the community

1:14:12But also looks to make sure that the service providers that should be meeting that need

1:14:18Are in fact the ones who are who are addressing are addressing the needs and the gaps

1:14:23We've had a number of conversations with the shelter providers through the county

1:14:28stepping stone and windham house being the two that the county contracts with

1:14:32And certainly look to the county's expertise in terms of acknowledging if there are gaps and how they're going to address those gaps

1:14:38City hall

1:14:40Is not a safe or conducive location?

1:14:43For individuals

1:14:44It will still remain as a warming in a cooling center throughout daytime hours

1:14:49But that the overnight

1:14:51The overnight experiences. Uh, it's it's just not a safe environment

1:14:56And so ultimately

1:14:58Looking to our service provider as the county of wellington

1:15:02Who provides those emergency shelter services?

1:15:05To to address the needs and any gaps that exist here in the community

1:15:09I'll certainly say that a lot of other municipalities

1:15:12Who do provide warming centers that it is done by their cms or their social services provider or it's contracted out for example in kitchens

1:15:19It's contracted out through a third party who has the trained and qualified staff who are able to safely staff

1:15:27The location and have the necessary facilities to meet those needs. So again through the county

1:15:32We would look to that uh that expertise to provide that service

1:15:35Okay, thank you. Okay, councillor cate

1:15:38Did you want to put your motion down and?

1:15:41Yes, please

1:15:43Okay, and do you have a seconder?

1:15:45Yes, councillor busetel

1:15:47councillor busetel

1:15:50Okay, so i'm just going to

1:15:52I'm just going to read it because I think it's pretty self-explanatory. I think that I kind of spoke to it in the in the opening of the

1:15:59The topic on the information report

1:16:02um, so i'm looking that the city of guelph

1:16:05Sorry the guelph city council respectfully requests that the county of wellington as the area social services manager

1:16:12share the review of services and entry processes for overnight shelter admittance for individuals where barriers and restrictions exist

1:16:20Ensuring alternative options are available

1:16:23Accessible and offered as a due course of process

1:16:25And a 24 7 phone line is available for residents to call for immediate help in case of need for extreme weather events

1:16:32Or for those unable to physically attend available shelters due to special circumstance barriers

1:16:38And while respecting privacy laws consider data collection for annual review by the joint social services and land ambulance committee

1:16:46That includes general reasons for refusal restrictions or other barriers to help inform

1:16:51ongoing adjustments and opportunities to improve the overnight shelter system

1:16:58And that if any changes are considered that these be implemented prior to the upcoming

1:17:052026 2027 winter response program commencing

1:17:10okay

1:17:13I have questions from calpster goller

1:17:15mayor

1:17:16Guthrie

1:17:18Oh, you're oh, we have a second. Oh, you do okay perfect. Okay

1:17:22council busetel

1:17:24any no comment

1:17:25Okay, mayor guthrie

1:17:29Thanks and through you chair

1:17:31Could you just throw that motion back up on the screen for me corks?

1:17:35It I think the language said

1:17:39That well council respectfully requests that the county of Wellington as the area social services manager

1:17:45Share their review

1:17:49So they've done a review

1:17:54It was my understanding through uh, councillor busetel that it was brought up at a joint

1:18:01social services and land ambulance committee that they do regular reviews of their processes

1:18:06And so this is something that

1:18:08exists in some form

1:18:13So do we know this for a fact then from the

1:18:18The county of Wellington that they've done a review of

1:18:22Of the things that you've outlined here

1:18:26I'll let councillor busetel speak to that as the chair of that committee

1:18:32Okay, and just before councillor busetel speaks to that

1:18:37Where i'm going on this is that I think that should be changed to we respectfully request the county of Wellington

1:18:45To provide a review of like we're actually asking them to do an up-to-date review

1:18:53Um, I I don't know of any review

1:18:57That's actually been

1:18:59Like done that addresses the actual things that are in

1:19:04This wording of the motion

1:19:06That's my concern. Yeah, you've said that and so

1:19:10I'm going to go to councillor busetel

1:19:12Thank you. Thank you, mayor Guthrie. And and I think the members of the joint social services land ambulance committee. We've heard verbally

1:19:20that staff

1:19:21Have an understanding have reviewed have looked at it have said to us

1:19:26There's no concern and so on and you're right. I think if they are

1:19:31verbally

1:19:32Sharing that then there has to be some kind of a basis so, you know, can they share their data?

1:19:38Can they share the information that they've collected and I thought it was um timely that the county housing

1:19:46Has received three awards for data

1:19:50Housing data just recently so we know there's data there

1:19:55And I think what the intent here is if you have this please share it with us

1:20:00So that we're able to engage meaningfully in a conversation

1:20:04around

1:20:06the service delivery and

1:20:08Also respond to residents when we hear that there are

1:20:12gaps in the service

1:20:17Okay

1:20:19So my question

1:20:21I'll leave it. I'll leave my sort of

1:20:23I'll leave it dangling out there for everybody my question in regards to this but

1:20:28I think it would be more suitable to have the language say that we are respectfully requesting information

1:20:34about

1:20:36But when you say the review

1:20:38It's like it's like I could go to a link or any of us could go to a link right now and we could click on a report to find a review

1:20:46There is none

1:20:48So I just think it would be better off to say

1:20:52share information

1:20:54Or to do a review

1:20:57But I don't think like none of us can go to a link right now and actually look at a report that has a review

1:21:03And by the way, I believe that the county is doing

1:21:06You know verbal verbal reviews and check I believe all of that

1:21:10But there's nothing we can hold in our hand today to show the public

1:21:14a report about

1:21:17The specific things that you're asking for in your in your emotions. I'll leave it at that. Thank you

1:21:22Okay, are there any other questions or comments councillor goller

1:21:30Thank you, uh, and through you chair, I'm not sure if this question is for I think it's it's for staff

1:21:35I just wanted to follow up on the questions from the delegates

1:21:38Uh, one of the delegates made a request to change the language on the weather alerts

1:21:44Could you please confirm for me who puts those together?

1:21:47So through the chair to councillor goller, so the cold weather and um and warm weather response plan is not something that the city does

1:21:56That's done um through the poverty elimination

1:21:59Collaborative I believe is the new name

1:22:01And so they handle that it's not done through the city

1:22:03We can certainly have that conversation with them and make sure that they're aware of this feedback

1:22:08In terms of what's posted on the city's website, um because we are no longer offering

1:22:13City hall is an overnight warming or cooling

1:22:15Shelter those environment canada thresholds are no longer relevant because we will always be opening city hall

1:22:22During those daytime hours regardless of the temperatures

1:22:24So I think what makes most sense is for and I'm happy to take that away

1:22:28To follow up directly with the poverty elimination collaborative and to share that feedback with them. I know temperature

1:22:34I know environment canada alerts and temperature thresholds, you know, there's

1:22:38Should it be a specific temperature? Should it be a specific weather condition?

1:22:41I'm no expert on climatology. And so I'm certainly we've always looked to environment canada

1:22:47To guide those decisions. And so I'll certainly pass that feedback along

1:22:51Thank you very much for that. Um and through your chair

1:22:55The the other delegate asked questions about the cost. Could you help understand how to set it up to 27 54 per night for

1:23:04For keeping city hall open

1:23:06Sure through the chair to councillor goller. So um that was an average

1:23:09So we actually did have a paramedic here. I think almost every night

1:23:13I think the first one we didn't but then we very quickly realized

1:23:16It was far more than one one medical incident that led to that

1:23:20From a safety point of view and from a comfort of the individuals who are here

1:23:24As well as we did we don't have staff on site overnight

1:23:28And so again from a staffing ratio in terms of the number of clientele because we were up in the 50 and 60 range

1:23:34A lot of the nights

1:23:34So we were putting two bylaw officers and a paramedic in

1:23:38And because we never knew when the weather alert was going to uh was going to need that

1:23:43It meant we were bringing staff in on overtime. And so those were um those those those 12 hour costs for two bylaw officers

1:23:50And a paramedic as well as we put on additional cleaning staff

1:23:54Because the wear and tear on the building and on the washrooms

1:23:56Did necessitate us bringing in additional cleaning staff every morning to make sure that the building was clean

1:24:02Was free of anything that might cause harm to others because we did we did experience that

1:24:07And so that was just based on an average cost over all of the nights that we opened city hall

1:24:12Okay, okay, that is really helpful. Uh through you chair

1:24:16The question about

1:24:17When um the decision is made that that there will be um the overnight space

1:24:24That you know, sometimes the decision had not been made into the afternoon. Could you speak to that please?

1:24:30Sure through chair downer. So um again, we won't be doing this moving forward

1:24:34But last winter we were reliant on those environment Canada weather alerts

1:24:38And so we were waiting each day until those alerts were issued and they're typically issued in the early afternoon

1:24:43And so again that that's information that I can pass along to the poverty elimination collaborative

1:24:47If there are others who are using those thresholds

1:24:49But it is generally around 1 30 or 2 o'clock in the afternoon that those alerts would be issued

1:24:54Again last winter we would then typically scramble to see if we could get staff to come in

1:24:59And so again to the other because I also don't um if you look at that if that infographic city hall is not the only

1:25:05Location um in the community as a warming and cooling center. So again, we'll pass that feedback along to

1:25:11To those who produce that infographic. Um, just make sure that the most accurate information is available to the community

1:25:17Okay, okay. Thank you. And my last question through you chair

1:25:21There were also

1:25:22Comments about the ability of people to access

1:25:25emergency shelter

1:25:27And I understand that you know, sometimes a location is not

1:25:31Suitable for for some people, but could you confirm how many different locations are there in the in the city of wealth?

1:25:37broadly

1:25:38That people can access should there be

1:25:42It was my understanding that if someone ever showed up at a shelter and it's full they'll put you up somewhere

1:25:46Is that still the case?

1:25:48So through the chair to councillor gallo. Yes, that is our understanding

1:25:51There is one overnight emergency a shelter location for adults that is provided by stepping stone and then windham house also

1:25:57Has the emergency overnight shelter for youth?

1:26:00But again, I don't want to speak for the county but our understanding is that if there was anybody

1:26:05So stepping stone opened up additional spaces, especially in the cold weather alerts to make sure that they weren't turning anyone away

1:26:12And the assurance that we have been provided by the county is that if there is somebody who has a service restriction or for whatever reason can't

1:26:19you know safety

1:26:21As an example

1:26:22That they do have the mechanism through stepping stone to alert the housing staff at the county of wellington

1:26:28Who can then make alternative arrangements hotels, etc. So again

1:26:32Something that we would look to the county as our service provider to make sure that those gaps are being filled

1:26:37But it is our understanding

1:26:39That that that they have a process for that

1:26:42Thank you. And just following up on that seen as well into county is responsible. We pay them to deliver these services

1:26:49What is the appropriate place for community members who have concerns about how the emergency shelter system is running to to speak to?

1:26:56Would that be the joint land ambulance and social services committee? Is that correct?

1:27:02Through the chair. Yes, I would believe that is the joint social services land ambulance committee

1:27:06Or of course directly through the housing services office at the county of wellington. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you chair

1:27:14Yeah, thank you very much. Um, I am quite happy to support this

1:27:18A resolution because essentially of everything that I've heard from

1:27:22From my colleagues, uh, council caten, councillor Busuttil and mayor guther

1:27:26Even though there there was some bantering back and forth

1:27:28And I think that that tends to reflect that while the information might be out there

1:27:33It is not necessarily accessible

1:27:36In in a fashion that that makes it

1:27:39Understandable and appreciated

1:27:41By both the community and and by um by city staff

1:27:46City staff clearly confirm why why we need this detail just uh in the last

1:27:51Two seconds, and I think we do need quantifiable and verifiable

1:27:55Information because I have heard many many times from on street workers mental health workers and social workers

1:28:02That this is indeed the case, but I have no foundation for confirming it

1:28:06So, uh, let's get the details and if there is a report great

1:28:09And if there isn't a report then I think what mayor guthery has stated is is quite correct

1:28:14But we need to get something so that we have a foundation for starting to deal with this

1:28:25Councillor Busuttil

1:28:26Yes, thank you. I'm going to start first with that councillor Goller just to reassure you

1:28:32I did forward the delegates motion to the poverty

1:28:37Collaboration I can the poverty task force

1:28:41They were not aware of it at the time and I know that councillor Caton did put the delegate in touch with

1:28:46Them as well for a more constructive and appropriate kind of conversation

1:28:51um

1:28:52I agree with everything that everyone has said here

1:28:55I think that we need to get some kind of a report or some kind of a memo or some kind of numbers here

1:29:01Because we have absolutely nothing right now. So, um, it's it's really difficult to respond to nothing

1:29:09And anyone else

1:29:13Mayor guthrie

1:29:15Thank you chair. I mean we're gonna leave the language the way it is. That's fine. I think my point's been made

1:29:21But I just want to say

1:29:23Thank you very much to the mover and to others

1:29:26for not

1:29:28trying to

1:29:30Reopen city hall as a warming as an overnight shelter space

1:29:35um

1:29:36The report very clearly stated why it should not be

1:29:41It's not conducive to

1:29:43To those that need it nor um, we do not have the appropriate staffing. It's not appropriate at all

1:29:50and so I

1:29:51Really like where this is focused now

1:29:54About getting sort of a review or information or report or data and moving forward. I really really like that

1:30:02And so I just want to say thank you very much that we're not here debating tonight

1:30:07And I'll be I'll be blind. I thought we were going to not not before the motion came out but before it came out

1:30:12I thought for sure. Oh great. We're gonna have we're gonna have a discussion about reopening city

1:30:17All and I I'm so glad that we're not because I think what we are talking about tonight is highly appropriate

1:30:23For us to get some information to then move forward from there with whatever that information is

1:30:28As outlined in the motion. So thank you very much

1:30:35I would just say that as a member of the joint social services

1:30:40Land ambulance committee at the last meeting that they did

1:30:44share their and one of their their annual report which will be coming

1:30:49To council actually I have a pop with me

1:30:52Will be coming to I think council at the end of july with with the other boards

1:30:58Is that so the report will be coming but I don't think their staff will be coming

1:31:02They did you know indicate too that they they believe that they had the capacity

1:31:08Um anybody who was not allowed in in usual circumstances would be sent to a hotel

1:31:15Um, but that there were there were instances where this did not occur and um

1:31:22But there was no real data like like as uh council kate is asking for on on the wise or necessarily how many so

1:31:30I think it would be good to get a little more information on all this

1:31:33Thank you council kate

1:31:36Thank you through you. I just wanted to close this out with um

1:31:40we can't

1:31:41improve or fix things if we don't know what's wrong and

1:31:46um

1:31:47All all we need is information and transparency people want to know

1:31:52What the rules are what are all the circumstances if then then what and um and what we want is for people to be able to

1:32:02Have a safe overnight place in a bed

1:32:05with access to services and train staff nearby in case of issues

1:32:10and systems where they can eventually move on to more permanent housing and I think that this is the first step in kind of

1:32:18Working towards finding those solutions and I would really appreciate it if if y'all would support my motion. Thank you

1:32:27Okay

1:32:28anything else

1:32:30Seeing none we'll go to the question then

1:32:33Uh is anyone opposed?

1:32:37Seeing none that passes. Thank you. Thank you council kate

1:32:41Okay, we're going to move forward with uh 5.3 the parking mitigation opportunities downtown

1:32:47Um councillor classon. Did you want to just say a few words about and introduce this item before we go to the delegations?

1:32:55Yes, thank you chair downer. Um, I am asking my council colleagues this evening

1:33:02to to support expanded free parking for downtown

1:33:07during the windom

1:33:09component of construction so that is in 2026 and 2027

1:33:17This is our challenging time for our businesses downtown

1:33:20It's not just the businesses but the people who access them and the people who also attend

1:33:25um appointments downtown who need to get from uh, you know, for example, taxi to

1:33:30You know another part of of of town

1:33:33It is more challenging to move around and we know that it is having an economic

1:33:38impact on

1:33:40Uh many people right now. There are there are a lot of challenges

1:33:43And so I have been working with staff and so firstly I would like to say thank you to staff because I this has been an ongoing

1:33:50collaboration since I started on council

1:33:53Um, there have been many discussions and there are many mitigation strategies in place

1:33:57So I don't want to take away from any of the work the hard work that's being done

1:34:02There are many conversations happening and I know that

1:34:06I know that it's it's an ongoing discussion and I think that it's something that requires us

1:34:12Uh to have some flexibility and nimbleness. I'm I'm asking this of

1:34:17Of our council this evening and I have worked with staff on these motions

1:34:21I will also share that concurrently I have been working with the dgba on a number of other things

1:34:26And I know that they have also put this

1:34:30This you know if this motion passes tonight, they've also got a motion in the agenda

1:34:35They're a meeting tomorrow evening to match the 25 000. So they're ready

1:34:39They're willing to to match and support and I think that it would be a really good

1:34:45public

1:34:47representation of our partnership

1:34:49And and our support of the businesses and all of our community who access our downtown during this time

1:34:56And I'll leave it at that because I know we have delegations and I know that there might be some questions and further discussion

1:35:03Okay, thank you. So let's go to delegations first one is morgan dandy is uh she online

1:35:12morgan, are you there?

1:35:24There we go. Hello. You can hear me. I can hear you

1:35:29Excellent. Thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to this. I spend a lot of time in the downtown

1:35:35I gave up my car in 2020. I don't need parking

1:35:39and I would really love to see a mitigation

1:35:45for

1:35:46more individuals by

1:35:48promoting transit one of the things that

1:35:52I see the dgba not doing

1:35:56Is having any mention of the fact that

1:36:00There's transit that brings you into the downtown

1:36:04Half of our buses come into the downtown

1:36:07There are no stops where the construction is currently

1:36:13And they are all the way around where the construction is

1:36:20I would absolutely support

1:36:23having further mitigation for

1:36:26some

1:36:27additional parking

1:36:28But I think that that should be on the dgba

1:36:31There are businesses that have already gone ahead and they validate two hours worth of parking

1:36:38They've been eating it

1:36:40themselves

1:36:41in order to have their patrons

1:36:45Come into their businesses

1:36:49I believe that if we could do something with transit

1:36:54It would also help as we go through

1:36:58The next almost decade of construction that is happening on various streets through the downtown

1:37:04This isn't only a two-year project the reconstruction

1:37:08revitalization of downtown is ongoing

1:37:12past

1:37:132030 past the end of the next term of council so

1:37:19To be putting that much of the mitigation budget into

1:37:24Parking at this time when there's so much more time going on

1:37:29I believe that if we were to do something with transit

1:37:33That would

1:37:34Help to increase the ridership with transit

1:37:37It would help to increase people being in the downtown and once all of the construction is finished

1:37:44People will already be accustomed to using transit which will only enhance the way our downtown functions

1:37:53Maybe a little bit of parking if the dgba wants to do that on their own

1:37:57I think the city should be supporting transit. Thank you

1:38:02Thank you. Are there any questions of morgan dandy?

1:38:06Seeing none. Thank you and we're going to go to

1:38:11Alec pervs again, and thank you again for letting me be able to speak

1:38:29Downtown wealth business association not only do they pay higher commercial taxes right now

1:38:35But on top of that they have a special levy that they

1:38:39Enforced all the businesses downtown and on top of that you have a couple of businesses that have an extra

1:38:46Tax that they have to pay as far as the math tax

1:38:49So, you know a lot of the downtown businesses they already are paying an awful lot of money

1:38:55And I just have a little bit of a hard time saying

1:38:59Understanding the optics of it is that we want to be able to help downtown businesses

1:39:06And we're going to pitch in 25 000 dollars

1:39:09But we want them to be able to match in to pitch in 25 000 dollars as well

1:39:13When they are already paying and it goes over the amount of money through

1:39:20Commercial property taxes

1:39:22Then they have their levy as far as their own tax that they have on top of that the levy that they have

1:39:27And then you have the math tax on top of that which is 4

1:39:33That's just the first thing the second thing is just the precedent that you're setting right now

1:39:38Is that we're talking windham street

1:39:40And in a couple of years then we're going to start working on mac danel

1:39:43Are we going to do the same thing with mac danel?

1:39:45Then what happens with businesses that if you're going to start construction on gordon street?

1:39:51Or on wood lawn and they don't have a bia

1:39:55Are you going to also say hey, we're going to pitch in with you guys as well?

1:39:59But they don't have a bia that they're organized

1:40:03So you're basically setting some businesses that you're going to help

1:40:07And you're setting yourself up that other businesses

1:40:11They're you're not going to be able to help it's

1:40:14There's a precedent that's being set here

1:40:18That you might be favoring certain things through downtown stores absolutely needed. Yes

1:40:24Are some of the businesses not going to make it through this construction? Yes, we know that

1:40:30But there has to be

1:40:32Possibly some other things. I'm just concerned about the precedent that's being set

1:40:37And then to say that we're here to help downtown businesses. So we're going to give them

1:40:42$25,000 to help with mitigation. Okay

1:40:46Annual parking for downtown revenue is three hundred thousand dollars

1:40:49So we're not talking a lot of money here, but more importantly the biggest thing is is that through the mitigation

1:40:57Is that

1:40:59Then to ask for the downtown golf business association

1:41:03Hey, can you guys pitch in even more money on top of everything that you're already paying?

1:41:09It's a little bit of a struggle that I'm having with

1:41:11Regarding that that's basically all I'm just concerned about the precedence that being set

1:41:17Because when you're having further construction, gordon wood lawn, wherever it's going to be

1:41:22You have a lot of businesses that aren't part of a bia

1:41:26That they're going to say well, why couldn't they do that with us?

1:41:31Why did they just do it for this small segment downtown that they already have their own levy

1:41:37That's looking after things and that levy as well is to use

1:41:42To be for the downtown core to be able to beautify to be able to bring a tourism santa claus fray

1:41:48Spirit of the season that levy is used for that not to be able to mitigate parking

1:41:54And so those are just concerns that I have about that

1:41:57It's the fact that the idea is good in principle, but you're setting a precedent

1:42:03That down the road

1:42:07Some businesses are going to say hey, what about us?

1:42:11Why how come we're you're not pitching in for us?

1:42:14And uh, so that's just my concern that I have thank you very much. Okay. Thank you. Are there any questions of the dealer?

1:42:22Okay, see none. Thank you. Okay, uh

1:42:27Councillor cuss and would you like to put your motion on the floor and do you have a seconder?

1:42:30And I understand you have four now recommendations. Yes

1:42:36I believe councillor Goller agree to second okay, so

1:42:42Okay

1:42:44Are there any questions or uh, councillor busatel?

1:42:48and councillor ult

1:42:50Thank you. I discuss this with councillor Klassen and also with staff a minor amendment

1:42:57to

1:43:00I'm done. Okay

1:43:03adjournment

1:43:04Can I get the motions back up sorry? Do you want them red?

1:43:13Oh, sorry go ahead

1:43:16Councillor Goller is asking for them to be read

1:43:19Okay, that's that's a good idea right. I don't mean that step. Okay. Can we just hold for a minute and let councillor Klassen say that?

1:43:29Um, okay, so I'm reading these out loud

1:43:31Um, so there are four unless there's I didn't quite understand if you just want me to speak to it

1:43:36So one the council rep requests that the dgba works with staff to determine operationally feasible parking mitigation opportunities

1:43:44To support customers of downtown businesses during construction activities on windham street

1:43:48Above and beyond the existing parking mitigation already in place and at the cost of up to 25 000 dollars be paid from the deter

1:43:56Instruction mitigation budget which we already have in place while council respectfully request matching funds of up to 25 000 dollars

1:44:03For a total of 50 000 dollars towards mitigation from the dgba

1:44:08To that council acknowledged that increasing parking mitigation funding means that other construction mitigation actions will not be delivered unless the construction mitigation is topped up through the 2027

1:44:18confirmation budget process

1:44:20and that three

1:44:23Sorry, I don't have it in front of me. So I'm just waiting for the screen. Thank you

1:44:27And that council request that the dgba provide an update to council on their own mitigation efforts related to downtown construction

1:44:33And outline a plan for how they're contributing funds to support these efforts, which I believe if is not done. It's in process

1:44:40Um to be provided and for that council respectfully requests that the incoming mayor consider continued investment in similar measures for inclusion in

1:44:492027 confirmation budget

1:44:51um

1:44:52And I I would like if it's okay through you madam chair

1:44:56um

1:44:57I would just like to clarify something that came up in the previous delegation

1:45:01Which is with regard to the taxes. There's no new taxation here

1:45:04This is this is coming from our existing mitigation budget that is in place for the downtown

1:45:09Um, and I would just like to add to that that our downtown is is our most tax dense land

1:45:15And so when we're looking at mitigation efforts, I think that it is appropriate to look at mitigation efforts for all of our projects

1:45:21But in particular the downtown where a lot of people are very a varying sorts businesses

1:45:27People who visit businesses and also the people who live there are are impacted

1:45:31um

1:45:32And then I did add the last one in because I would like an opportunity for a future council

1:45:38um to have have a discussion about this in the next term of council because I think it should be an ongoing discussion

1:45:48Thank you. Okay. Councillor rusa tail and then councillor gollum

1:45:51Thank you

1:45:53um

1:45:54Through the chair, I did a conversation with councillor our clausen and with staff about this and thank you to our councillor Klassen for sharing the

1:46:03mitigation

1:46:04downtown support plan

1:46:06I I would like to propose a small amendment

1:46:09Uh to item number one

1:46:12So that council request that the dgba works with city staff to determine

1:46:17operationally

1:46:19feasible

1:46:20transit

1:46:21And or parking mitigation and the rest is the same. So it's just the addition of transit and or

1:46:27Parking mitigation when I look at the mitigation plan for downtown for wealth transit

1:46:34It just it says to keep buses running well during downtown construction. So there's no added incentive

1:46:40No redirection from cars to transit

1:46:44And and I agree with the delegate that I think if we can

1:46:50Influence some behavior now. There are some longer term down the road benefits, especially we know that

1:46:57downtown corridors parking

1:47:00You know the the development that's happening is with reduced parking and so on. So let's let's

1:47:06Allow the dgba and and city staff to have a conversation on what is in the basket of options. So that is um

1:47:14the

1:47:15Amendment that I've put forward and I do have a seconder in councillor uh, kate

1:47:20Okay, councillor kate. Great. Okay. So uh, first we have so on the amendment first

1:47:27Is there any

1:47:28Comment or questions about the amendment adding transit?

1:47:32Okay seeing none. I'll just go right to that question then is anyone opposed

1:47:37Nope that carries then okay. So for the the rest of the motions and I have councillor garland or councillor Allt

1:47:45Uh, thank you. I think I've got three in and three you chair downer

1:47:50um

1:47:51Regarding the the the wording that we acknowledge that there may be other mitigations that do not happen unless we put additional budgets

1:47:58Could I ask for staff? What are those mitigations or?

1:48:02Is it something specific that we know that we don't want to have the money to do or is it just in general a year from now?

1:48:08We may not have money available

1:48:11With regards to the if we put that 25 000 towards the parking what do we not get to do?

1:48:17down the road

1:48:20Through the through the chair to councillor Goller. So certainly right now what I could say is the construction

1:48:24mitigation budget for the downtown

1:48:26Renewal work is fully allocated

1:48:29And so there's a number of tactics within that councillor Goller and they have a range in terms of the order of magnitude of cost

1:48:35and so if if council were to

1:48:38Allocate some of these funds towards the motion that councillor

1:48:42Classin has put forth a staffer going to have to go back and take a look at that list and make that determination

1:48:47It could be things like way finding it could be things like signage. It's going to have to fit within the funding envelope

1:48:53Whereas some of the you know special events and things like that

1:48:56We might have larger funds set aside to support some of those items

1:48:59And so it'll probably be some of those more

1:49:01Day-to-day more operational items. Okay. Okay. I appreciate that and I appreciate that there's flexibility with those

1:49:07And to the mover if I could just have a confirmation because you are on the dgba

1:49:14Could you confirm that there will be no new dgba levy for the downtown that they already have enough money in a fund set aside for that 25,000?

1:49:26Yes, they do there is a reserve and so

1:49:30My intention is to suggest that we use that

1:49:33As as the funding source so no new no new levy no additional

1:49:39percentages

1:49:40Thank you for that. I just for for the members of the public. They did not make it in time but

1:49:46The chair of the dgba did send council an email earlier. I think it was yesterday

1:49:51Confirming that they are in support of this

1:49:54Motion and that they welcome it

1:49:56Thank you chair

1:49:58Thank you. Okay, councillor Allt

1:50:01Thank you very much chair downer. Uh, first of all through you to the mover and then I have some questions of staff as well

1:50:07um

1:50:08with regards to

1:50:11The the phrase and I'll ask staff the same question

1:50:15operationally feasible. What do we mean by that?

1:50:18It's it's it's a bit of a tongue twister for me

1:50:21Thank thank you through you chair

1:50:24To councillor Allt. I think that it's likely in response to a previous motion that I put forward because

1:50:31It did ask, uh, it was I did some a different type of calculation which was based on hours

1:50:38Um, which would have been and and using the honk

1:50:41App and it would have just been a little bit more complicated

1:50:44So what staff asked me and they provided this wording so you could have confirmed it with them as well

1:50:49But um, I my understanding is that by having the flexibility

1:50:54They're able to uh put put the the funds where it is going to best serve

1:51:01the downtown

1:51:03Okay, thank you. Um, the next one is is that

1:51:07It's probably because it's been a long meeting so far

1:51:10uh clause number two

1:51:12um

1:51:14Is causing me concern because i'm not exactly certain

1:51:18Precisely what it means and I was wondering if you could clarify that for me, please

1:51:25Number two is with is the um that we we acknowledge that one

1:51:30Yes, I would I would ask staff to speak to that one because that was that was provided. Um, I think it just

1:51:38Okay, from my understanding

1:51:40It it is it is what it is. I mean, I think that my understanding and that I was I was as as

1:51:48councillor Goller was asking

1:51:50Mr. Gaiman about

1:51:53The allocation of the mitigation funds

1:51:56It's allocated but not spent so there is flexibility there

1:52:00So I think by acknowledging we acknowledge that it's a finite budget

1:52:05That so if something comes up later on down the road

1:52:08That we're not going to be blindsided or the future council won't be blindsided by the fact that we took this 25 000 and we allocated it elsewhere

1:52:15At this time we we prioritized it for an earlier part of the construction

1:52:20Okay, thank you that actually helps a lot

1:52:23But what it does is it it lays out for me the law of unintended consequences might be at work here as well

1:52:29Which is which is a concern? Um, uh before I go to staff

1:52:34a councillor downer at this point unless

1:52:37Unless I'm satisfied with the answers I would ask that these be separated out, please

1:52:42I might be supporting some and not others

1:52:44Um, uh through you to staff

1:52:47uh staff, uh with

1:52:50With regards to the current mitigation the statement was made that this is fully allocated at the present time

1:52:57What uh, what will be the consequence if we

1:53:01Remove funds from that can we get some specific examples?

1:53:07So through the chair to councillor also similar to to my response to councillor Goller

1:53:11We've we've got the the mitigation funds

1:53:15Allocated to a number of different tactics and so

1:53:18Depending on the order of magnitude and cost here so for 25 000 there's a number of tactics that could be

1:53:24Impacted so I suggest things like wayfinding things like signage

1:53:28We do have funds set aside for other larger tactics things like how do we reopen construction areas for temporary

1:53:35Periods of time to support special events. You think by centennial you think memorial cup things like that

1:53:40Um, we have funds set aside for things like marketing strategies

1:53:43So those types of funds wouldn't be impacted it would be more of those day to day operational things

1:53:47I think the things that people would look and feel the only other comment I may make

1:53:52With respect to the construction mitigation funds is to remind council though that there is about 200 000 right now towards

1:53:59Parking as part of that construction mitigation fund and that's with respect to the macdenal law in the two-hour free parking there

1:54:05So we're looking from from the city's perspective at about a 7 percent

1:54:10Potential increase in this if these resolutions were to pass

1:54:14Would that be accurate

1:54:16Through the chair to the council outside

1:54:18I don't have the numbers in that in that way

1:54:19But what I could say is if the funds weren't replaced in the future and I think that's part of

1:54:24Sort of what councillor Klassen is after there if those if those funds weren't replaced in a future

1:54:29Budget then we would have no choice

1:54:30But to simply just reduce the tactics that are implemented in terms of you know, how we're supporting

1:54:35Downtown and businesses through the mitigation

1:54:38Is there there any cautions that you can give us on that at this point or

1:54:43Is it will it just come to rise as they come about?

1:54:48So through the chair to to council out, I think from from a construction perspective

1:54:52You know, we understand that downtown is is impacted by this construction

1:54:56You've heard folks speak in terms of the the time duration. This is going to be a long time

1:55:01We're at the beginning of construction now and so

1:55:04You know, there's economic uncertainty out there

1:55:06We do support ideas to help you know drive people towards downtown help

1:55:10Those downtown businesses and help them thrive and certainly we would you know

1:55:15Continue to want to get the message out to the general public

1:55:17You know shop local and come downtown and support those businesses

1:55:21But there is only so much we can do with the funds that we do have and again, I'll I'll just note that

1:55:26Council has already put some funding towards parking

1:55:28Um

1:55:29DCl clock push may want to comment on just you know, how much of an impact the 25 000 plus 25 000 from dgba actually

1:55:38provides in terms of parking

1:55:40And perhaps for busing as well

1:55:43Sure, so through the chair to council all perhaps I can cover a few of the things that you've asked so

1:55:48I mean as as uh, mr.

1:55:49Gaiman has said of course we recognize that the impact this is having on the businesses and we want to encourage people to come

1:55:54Downtown and support our businesses

1:55:57Any time, you know, I will say philosophically free parking or transit is not something that typically staff are recommending as as

1:56:06As good practice because those things do have value and we want to make sure that we're reflecting that value back to the community

1:56:13um, and so I think

1:56:15That you know 25 000 plus 25 000 that's another 50

1:56:20It's it it it may make a dent

1:56:22But we're also very conscious of not putting a tactic in place that has unintended consequences

1:56:28We want to make sure that whatever we do drives people downtown to spend money

1:56:32That's where we so when we use the phrase operationally feasible

1:56:36We want to make sure that we work with the dgba to figure out how this can be allocated in a way to make sure

1:56:42It's getting in the hands of the people who are coming downtown to

1:56:45To frequent our downtown businesses

1:56:48And so we asked councillor Klassen for that flexibility the words operationally feasible. We're quite intentional

1:56:55And i'll use transit as an example we can't

1:56:59We can't mandate who gets on a bus and where they go

1:57:02And so we're going to need to figure out how do we incent people to come downtown on transit in a way that makes sure

1:57:08They're coming downtown because we we we can't police when people get on a bus to say well

1:57:13Where are you getting off if you're not getting off downtown you can't use this free voucher

1:57:17So we're going to need to work with the dgba

1:57:19Likewise on the parking we want to make sure I mean one of the reasons that we we have

1:57:25Measures in places we want to encourage turnover of parking spots downtown

1:57:29We want people to come downtown shop eat and then leave the parking spot for someone else

1:57:34So we're going to need to work with the dgba

1:57:37Part of it comes down to the technology that's available to us through our

1:57:41Parking app through the honk app as well as our pay stations as well as our transit apps

1:57:46We're going to need to figure out how to do this operationally feasible in conjunction with the dgba that enables them to have their businesses

1:57:53Giving out the vouchers or the coupons in a way that makes sure

1:57:57That they're getting in the hands of the people who are going to come downtown and actually benefit the downtown businesses

1:58:02So we asked for that freedom and that flexibility so that we can go away

1:58:06Also are grateful that it's an and or for transit and parking because we need to go away and have conversations with the dgba to figure out how best

1:58:14to navigate this

1:58:18With regards to that you made mention of support for customers and I guess that's where the operationally feasible comes in

1:58:26Is is there a subtext that you're concerned about others?

1:58:29Actually taking advantage of this is is that what i'm hearing

1:58:33Through the chair, I don't I don't want to sort of make that assumption without talking to the dgba

1:58:37But if I understand the intention behind this it's to support people coming downtown

1:58:42And and supporting the downtown businesses. So I think whatever our tactic is that we use

1:58:47We want to work with the dgba to make sure that it's done in a way that is most beneficial to

1:58:52Getting customers into their businesses

1:58:56I think finally the last question and I don't know to whom to ask it. So i'm just going to ask it to any one of you for

1:59:01um

1:59:03Because I'm downtown pretty well every day

1:59:05Either biking or driving my car. I don't see a whole lot of capacity

1:59:11For extra parking. I was wondering if anybody could comment on that

1:59:15It strikes me that parking is going to be quite a distance from downtown in many cases

1:59:21Uh through the chet of councillor Allt I would say uh, and I'll look back to mr. Godfrey

1:59:26But I think the market square park aid generally has vacancy almost every day

1:59:30And it really is not that far

1:59:32And so I would actually say there's lots of parking available downtown

1:59:35There'll be even more coming online when the the library opens

1:59:40in a few

1:59:41Early next year. I was going to say a few months

1:59:45But certainly the market square park aid has available parking pretty much every day. So there is

1:59:51Part of it is also just encouraging people

1:59:55To maybe change their patterns. It might be another block that they need to walk

1:59:59But we we do have despite the construction there is availability of parking in the downtown core

2:00:04So last point and so what I'm hearing you say there

2:00:08The subtext is directing people into market square and ultimately into library parking as alternatives

2:00:15That either weren't there before or were not palatable to some

2:00:20Through the chair. Absolutely. We recognize that on street parking is difficult through the construction period the market square park aid

2:00:26The east and the west park aid. Those are all great options for people

2:00:31And and are really

2:00:32It's really not that far and the in kudos to the team who's done incredible work on the way finding signage and helping

2:00:38Pedestrians navigate their way through downtown. So we just need to make sure we keep encouraging people to come down and use those options

2:00:45Thank you very very much and chair down. I don't think I need them separated

2:00:50Great. Thank you. Okay. Mayor Guthrie

2:00:53And then thank you. Thank you madam chair through you

2:00:56Um, I just want to really clarify this with uh through you to potentially Terry maybe

2:01:03The mitigation budget was a two-year

2:01:07budget of approximately a million dollars

2:01:11And if we decide

2:01:14to use 25 000 today out of that already

2:01:18existing budget

2:01:21and

2:01:22councillor claustin's fourth motion

2:01:26Of having that replenished

2:01:29For the new mayor and council to determine

2:01:32It really would actually mean

2:01:35That it's a wash

2:01:37in other words any

2:01:41Any funds that are being

2:01:45questioned about not going to this or not going to that

2:01:50Um

2:01:51Would be replenished within about six months

2:01:56If it was already a two-year budget

2:02:00and the and the the

2:02:03mitigation budget was to go out over a two-year span

2:02:07If using 25 000 now and then replenished in february next year

2:02:13It the budget kind of remains whole if that scenario works out as I described it, correct

2:02:21Through the chair to the to the mayor. So I think sort of fundamentally you may be on on the right track there

2:02:26My only caution would just be with respect to

2:02:29If the funds are moved now and so there is a bit of a lag in terms of time

2:02:33There just may be some tactics where you know, we may have gone to implement them sooner

2:02:38We may have to delay them or if those budget if that budget isn't

2:02:42impacted

2:02:43Sorry, isn't replenished in the future. Then maybe some of those tactics don't get delivered. I'll give you an example

2:02:49So, you know business delivery access plans. So as we move further through the staging, you know, we have funds set aside to help support business

2:02:57You know deliveries. So maybe maybe that's the topic that we have to remove some funds from on a temporary basis

2:03:03while we await that replenishment and then if the replenishment doesn't come perhaps

2:03:07An opportunity lost there. So there's just those kinds of things that we would have to work through

2:03:11If council moves this direction. So

2:03:14That's that's sort of the spirit of just the acknowledgement that there there are some risks to the tactics being executed

2:03:20If funds are temporarily or or permanently diverted to something else

2:03:24so

2:03:26Terry if you don't mind me just

2:03:28Restating my question

2:03:29If you have a million dollar budget over a two-year span

2:03:34So what you've just described is making it sound like you're using the entire one million dollars this year

2:03:41You're saying that it wouldn't be

2:03:44Reestablished next year

2:03:46In other words, you'd be out like how how how can you say there might be things that are not implemented?

2:03:52If you're not if it's a two-year one million dollar budget

2:03:56Yeah, so through the church to the mayor. So again, so the the million dollar budget is fully allocated to tactics right now

2:04:04So all I'm suggesting that is that if if funds are diverted towards this additional

2:04:09parking then we have to

2:04:12Reduce twenty five thousand dollars of tactics

2:04:14elsewhere so simply that if

2:04:17If the funds are diverted now if they don't get replaced then there is that risk

2:04:21And again because there's a period of time in there there may be some shuffling in terms of tactics and the timing in which we were going to do

2:04:28Certain things but staff have to go back and do that analysis if this were something that council

2:04:34moves forward with

2:04:37Okay, okay

2:04:39And then finally can you please make sure that it stated out loud?

2:04:43That the mat tax is not paid for by businesses and or properties in the downtown

2:04:51The mat tax is paid for by 99.9% visitors

2:04:57To the city that then pay their three four percent

2:05:02On their hotel and or Airbnb stays

2:05:06If businesses in the downtown or property owners in the downtown are not paying

2:05:12An extra levy. I think that needs to be stated because I believe that the delegate was

2:05:17In my view saying something wrong. I don't want hanging out there in the public because I think that needs to be

2:05:24Restated can I please have staff just make sure that that's stated properly?

2:05:30Yes, so can staff just confirm what the yeah through the through the chair to the mayor

2:05:34No, you're correct in that the mat tax is ultimately paid by the guests or the visitors staying in the accommodations

2:05:41Great. Thank you. Do you mind if I just do a little comment right now and then I'm just done

2:05:46Madam chair, okay

2:05:48Thank you. I'm going to support this

2:05:50Um, I do not believe the entire one million dollars of the mitigation budget is going to be used by

2:05:56February whatever of next year. I am hopeful as a citizen watching from afar

2:06:03That council would maybe see the uh

2:06:06The benefit of of this move now to then consider replenishing

2:06:12Next year

2:06:13Maybe even the dgba could help with that next year. So there's an option option there that doesn't have any tax implications at all

2:06:21Um, so I would like to have this uh voted on I have spoken to many businesses downtown

2:06:29And it is the number one

2:06:32Issue and I'm just going to say it out loud because I'm blunt. It's not transit

2:06:36It's parking people might want to say it's transit and I get it. Hey, I supported the and or so that that's a great idea

2:06:44I don't mind that at all to be flushed out, but I'm telling you right now

2:06:48Every single business I go to isn't saying gee. I wish I had more transit opportunities in the downtown

2:06:53They their customers either aren't coming or the narrative of the downtown right now is because of

2:07:01Harking issues. So I am fully supportive of this. Thank you councillor quassan for bringing it forward

2:07:08And I'm hoping that this can be supported

2:07:11During this rough time within

2:07:14With it with the partnership of the dgba. So thank you very much

2:07:18Hey, thank you. Uh councillor capen

2:07:21Thank you. Surrey madam chair, uh, my question first is to staff

2:07:27Um, have we spent any money on mitigation for other construction?

2:07:31projects like for york road or for the businesses just on the east side of the speed veal bridge

2:07:40through the chair to to councillor Caton it's

2:07:43maybe slightly different with respect to other

2:07:46Um construction projects outside the downtown area in the sense that cap the that council approved a specific construction mitigation budget

2:07:53Through this downtown infrastructure renewal program and so staff are allocating those funds in this ways

2:07:58But on any project, you know, we would certainly see to do certain things like keep access is open to businesses

2:08:03Sometimes we put certain types of signage up. So there has been sort of maybe on the more minor scale

2:08:10Tactics put in place on different projects. So hopefully that answers your question

2:08:15It does. Thank you. Um in terms of percentage wise, how far along are we in terms of completion?

2:08:25through the chair to councillor Caton with respect to

2:08:29Um construction of windom street

2:08:31So that's approximately a two-year project and we're in month

2:08:35Roughly three right now of that project. So still in the early stages

2:08:38Um first sort of quarter of the project in terms of downtown renewal overall, you know, I think you we have the better part of a decade or so

2:08:46still to go

2:08:48okay, and

2:08:50Was the mitigation budget only meant to last for the two years or is it supposed to be for the full duration?

2:09:02So through the uh through the chair to councillor Caton

2:09:10I think I need a moment to just confirm the answer to that question

2:09:14My recollection is that it is just for the windom piece. But if you can just give me a moment, I'll I'll need to get back to

2:09:21Okay, I have a question for the mover

2:09:23So

2:09:24We'll do that in the meantime

2:09:26um

2:09:28Do you know if the the dgba has employee sponsored bus passes like some of the other businesses across the handlin

2:09:36Does I'm just thinking in terms of when we're talking about like having a quick turnover of cars in the parking lot

2:09:41I imagine that it's very hard for employees to kind of park

2:09:45In these circumstances. So I'm just wondering if that's something that the dgba does

2:09:53Through the chair to the councillor

2:09:55I don't believe that is a strategy that is taken by the dgba

2:10:00But may I ask a point of clarification?

2:10:02So do the businesses sponsor the bus passes or is it another is it the vi?

2:10:08Is there like another is like the city that?

2:10:11Sponsors is that I'm just wondering the

2:10:14clarity there

2:10:16My understanding is there like like we have with the universities and with the new conastoga

2:10:21That they're kind of like you get a bulk discount sort of thing

2:10:23And so I'm just wondering if maybe the the dgba

2:10:27Had something for all of the businesses who are down there

2:10:31And their staff to get kind of like a bulk discount on bus passes

2:10:36Um, that is not my understanding

2:10:39At this time, but it might be a good question to bring out to a future meeting

2:10:45Okay, don't know if I gave staff enough time

2:10:49Through the chair to council, okay, and yeah, I can confirm that that's just for windham street. Okay

2:10:56um

2:10:59So I I believe in supporting the mitigation for downtown. I think that's why I voted for it in the first place

2:11:06um

2:11:07I would like to have the the final motion or yeah the final motion kind of separate it out because I'm I'm not opposed to

2:11:14Like if this is what the dgba wants this budget for I you know

2:11:18I believe in supporting what their wishes are because that's what it's meant for it's meant to help the dgba and the businesses that are in the

2:11:24Downtown

2:11:25But I do think that it should be a finite budget so that it's not a continual top up on taxes

2:11:31um

2:11:32And you know, we've got the million dollars and and we've got two years for it

2:11:36So if if you use it all within a certain amount of time

2:11:40Then it's then it's gone

2:11:41But I do think that it's a good motion and if this is what the dgba

2:11:44I know I would db the dgba wants a long meeting

2:11:49And I'm happy to support the first three in the list

2:11:55Okay, are there any other questions or comments?

2:11:58councillor curran

2:12:01Yeah, no questions just a comment

2:12:03I am going to be supporting the motion because I do think behavior

2:12:07Is established in year one and although I recognize that the the fund is is for an extended period of time

2:12:13If we can get people downtown in year one

2:12:16That will establish. Hey, that wasn't so bad. This is doable. I was able to find parking. I'm going to go back again

2:12:22So I think uh, you know, it'll be good to see how this rolls out and um, collecting

2:12:29Data is really important to being able to add it to a future budget

2:12:34Or increase any amounts towards towards uh parking for downtown businesses. We need to collect the data as well

2:12:41Okay, thank you. So I'm going to go to the question now

2:12:45And we're going to do one two three

2:12:47Is anyone opposed

2:12:51seeing none those three carry number four

2:12:54is

2:12:56Can you put four back up on the screen please?

2:13:00It's a one about the future mirrors

2:13:05Okay, number four is back up on the screen

2:13:08Is anyone opposed to number four?

2:13:17Okay, councillor caton is opposed to number four

2:13:20Okay, and so that passes so thank you. Okay

2:13:24We're moving on

2:13:27And now the advancing energy equity in Guelph and we have one delegation a morgan dandy and the recommendation

2:13:35in front of us

2:13:37Just a reminder to council that this was fully discussed at earlier committee the whole meeting

2:13:57Along with the next one as well

2:14:00We're gonna you there

2:14:06Yes, it has just finally cycled through thank you so much

2:14:12I am so pleased that I was able to be part of

2:14:18the community engagement

2:14:20for the energy equity

2:14:23Since the time that this was presented to council I have become aware of some corporate landlords that

2:14:31have sent out

2:14:33essentially contracts

2:14:36to the residents of their buildings

2:14:39And these individuals pay their own electricity

2:14:42So this particular corporate landlord that I will not name

2:14:47has sent out

2:14:51Contracts

2:14:52demanding to know how many air conditioning units residents plan on using

2:15:00And stating that

2:15:02For each unit they've got to pay x number of dollars per month or a flat

2:15:09over the summer

2:15:10Which essentially amounts to

2:15:13an above guideline rent increase

2:15:17The one that I saw was a hundred and seventy dollars for the summer or fifty dollars per unit per month

2:15:26And these are people that already pay their own electricity

2:15:30So why the landlord is doing this? I really don't understand

2:15:37But

2:15:38It's just another example of how energy

2:15:43costs most especially

2:15:46when we're in

2:15:47A heat wave, you know, I'm sure everybody's heard about what's happening over in europe right now

2:15:53It is feasible that that is going to happen in southern ontario over this summer

2:15:58And if you're an individual that lives on the legislate lives in the legislative poverty of od sp

2:16:06Air conditioning is essential. It's not a luxury

2:16:12And

2:16:14I love that this energy equity

2:16:19Program is something that has been presented to council golf labs did an amazing job

2:16:26Working on this and I'm very glad that council is voting on this. I hope it is

2:16:33Just wanted to make everyone aware that there are corporate landlords that are essentially

2:16:39doing above

2:16:42guideline rental increases

2:16:44Because people need their conditioning

2:16:49Thank you

2:16:50Okay, thank you. Are there any questions of the delegate?

2:16:54Okay seeing none we'll go right to the motion

2:16:57that's in front of you for the

2:17:00advancing energy equity in guaf and

2:17:03One of them is to receive

2:17:05And then the second the motions are up on the screen. So that's perfect

2:17:11Is there a mover?

2:17:13councillor hauser

2:17:14councillor Goller seconds

2:17:17Are there any questions?

2:17:19council mayor Guthrie

2:17:22I'm sorry chair. No questions. I just have a comment

2:17:25Okay

2:17:26Is that okay?

2:17:27Yep, go ahead

2:17:28Okay, thank you through you

2:17:30So I just wanted to tell everybody I'm very glad we're voting on this. I hope it's unanimous

2:17:36um

2:17:38I here's here is it hot off the press

2:17:42This is the gulf energy equity action plan booklet that I have right here

2:17:48And I am at the global covenant of mayors right now in the heat wave in europe

2:17:53right now

2:17:55And I have already been able to speak to people

2:17:59I just had a meeting today a quick meeting with the european

2:18:04commissioner for energy

2:18:06And I am presenting this work

2:18:09by the city of guelph by

2:18:11Toronto university

2:18:13Guelph labs university of guelph. I am presenting this to many many mayors across the world tomorrow

2:18:19um at my meeting

2:18:21So I just want to say thank you to our staff for bringing this forward. Thank you to council for unanimously supporting it at

2:18:28um committee of the whole

2:18:30And um, I can tell you in the couple conversations I've had today at the conference

2:18:35That it's gone over very very well

2:18:39And so guelph is on the national stage because of of this work that we're doing and so

2:18:45Congratulations to everybody

2:18:47For that if you don't pass it

2:18:49I have to bring these 25 uh brochures home with me. So please don't do that

2:18:54All right. Thank you very much. We don't want that to happen. Okay. Are there any other comments or questions?

2:19:00Before we go to the vote

2:19:02Okay, uh, is anyone opposed to this motion?

2:19:08Seeing none that passes. Thank you

2:19:11We're going to move on to the community investment strategy update and we have one delegation melanie flake

2:19:17Uh, she here and she's been here a long time

2:19:22So we're some other delegates so and you've heard the the rules wait the five minutes and 30 seconds warning. Thank you

2:19:39Good evening mayor and members of council

2:19:41My name is melanie flake and I am the chair of the eden mills writers festival

2:19:46Today i'm speaking on behalf of the guelph arts advocacy alliance

2:19:50A coalition of guelph arts and cultural organizations working together to advocate for meaningful and sustained municipal investment in guelph's arts and culture sector

2:20:00We've seen firsthand how arts and culture can strengthen communities support local economies deep in civic engagement

2:20:08Create a sense of belonging

2:20:10And contribute to the quality of life that matters. Sorry that makes guelph a remarkable place to live

2:20:16The evidence is clear the arts and culture sector is an economic driver

2:20:20It supports jobs attracts audiences and visitors

2:20:24Animates our downtown and neighborhoods and generates direct and indirect economic activity in cities across

2:20:31Ontario and canada

2:20:33excuse me

2:20:35We believe the contribution made by our sector should be recognized and better supported for the full value it brings to the city

2:20:42Arts and culture organizations also play a significant workforce development role

2:20:47offering hands-on training skill development

2:20:50mentorship volunteer opportunities and professional experience that equip residents with transferable skills in leadership communications

2:20:58technology project management and entrepreneurship

2:21:02These opportunities help retain talent support creative and cultural industries and contribute to the long-term economic prosperity of guelph

2:21:11We believe that city council staff understand the importance of arts and culture and how it supports the well-being and quality of life of guelphites

2:21:19This is reflected in the city's proposed changes to the community investment strategy

2:21:24Including the priorities identified through that process and the expansion of funding programs

2:21:30We particularly appreciate the shift towards broader access for arts and culture organizations

2:21:36As well as the recognition that different kinds of community organizations may require different kinds of support

2:21:42These proposed priorities align with much of the work the guelph arts advocacy alliance has been advancing including

2:21:50More flexible and responsive approach to supporting the sector

2:21:55We appreciate the work that has gone into developing this strategy as well as the city's willingness to engage with us throughout the process

2:22:03Building on this progress. We believe this is the moment to move from recognition to stronger more concrete action

2:22:10For several years. We have consistently advocated for the community fund to be divided into two distinct streams

2:22:17One for social service organizations and one for arts and culture organizations

2:22:22Both sectors do vital work. Both deserve support

2:22:26The two stream model with increased funding would better reflect each sector's distinct role and the scale of need across our community

2:22:34We also strongly believe that municipal funding for community based organizations

2:22:38Including arts and culture organizations should be sustainably increased with current funding levels

2:22:45At least doubled to better reflects the scale of need the cost of delivering this work and the vital contributions these organizations make to our community

2:22:55This fall we will be engaging with council and mayoral candidates and inviting them to endorse a set of four municipal arts and culture commitments

2:23:04These commitments outline practical achievable actions

2:23:07The city can take to strengthen wealth's already vibrant and resilient arts community

2:23:13And to help ensure the sector can continue to serve residents support artists and contribute to the city's economic and social well-being

2:23:21We thank you for your attention to these priorities and we look forward to continuing to work with you towards a city where

2:23:28Arts and culture thrive

2:23:30Thank you for all you do for our city

2:23:32Respectively submitted on behalf of the gulf arts advocacy alliance

2:23:39Thank you. Are there any questions get council to boost till and then mayor Guthrie

2:23:46Thank you for your patience. You've been here a very long time

2:23:50Through the chair, I just wanted can you tell me I'm familiar with you know gulf arts council on tarot prologue for the arts all those kinds of

2:23:58Organizations. I am admitting I am not familiar with the gulf arts advocacy alliance. Can you just very briefly bring me up to date?

2:24:07um the

2:24:08organization has been working together for

2:24:12Several years. I have just become chair of the uh eat and mills reddish festival in december

2:24:17So I haven't been a part of it. So I can't speak to uh any of their long-term work other than I can name

2:24:24And it was included in the submission name many of the organizations. So this is a voluntary group

2:24:30Who meets periodically to discuss, you know, uh shared issues

2:24:37Thank you mayor Guthrie

2:24:40Thank you. My question was exactly the same as

2:24:43Councillor Busuttil as I've never heard of this uh this group. So interesting to hear it now. Thank you very much

2:24:49Thanks. Are there any other questions?

2:24:52council classa

2:24:57Thank you to the delegate and I wanted to firstly I'd like to say thank you for bringing attention

2:25:03to council's attention, um the report that you referred to

2:25:06um, I think it's from the chamber of the canadian chamber of commerce

2:25:10that talks about how um

2:25:13The arts can arts and culture contribute 65 billion dollars a year to the canadian economy and I

2:25:19met with uh the chamber

2:25:21My when I was at fcm and I really appreciate the work that went into that report because I think that we we underestimate how how economically important our arts and culture

2:25:33Community is to the economy. So there's that and then I do have a question with regard to the request about splitting

2:25:41The the grants so it's my question is have you worked with staff? Have you have you provided that direct feedback to them as as um

2:25:49You know in them, you know the few years that you've been meeting

2:25:53Uh, it's my understanding that uh, there is a staff member and um, we had a meeting uh last week, uh that

2:26:01provides feedback and

2:26:03give some insight to uh, what what's being worked on um, and uh,

2:26:10So they were aware in that meeting that that this was something that uh,

2:26:15The group has been wanting

2:26:17We just feel that it's um

2:26:20When there's when we're asking for funds for you know, for instance my festival and then there's also maybe the food bank also

2:26:27looking for funds in the same with the same pot. It just

2:26:31Doesn't doesn't feel good

2:26:37appreciate that that that uh

2:26:40That response. Um, I will talk to staff about that afterwards

2:26:49Are there any other questions or comments? Thank you very much

2:26:52Thank you for the work you do

2:26:54Okay, so um, I'm going to look for a mover to put the motion on the floor

2:27:01counselor crossin seconded by clown sir

2:27:04karan

2:27:06um

2:27:07and

2:27:08it's to approve the

2:27:11recommendations in the community investment strategy

2:27:14And that the implementation of future grant program streams and other inflationary adjustments are subject to being added through future budget updates

2:27:23So, uh, is there anyone? Oh council class and you have something to say

2:27:29Yes, I would just like to ask that question quickly to staff if if not

2:27:33I don't necessarily need to move a motion

2:27:35But I would just like to hear from staff with regard to the splitting of the funds and if that's something that has been considered

2:27:41I know that it isn't I think because that's not what we're approving today

2:27:44So I was just wondering if staff could provide a comment on that and then maybe consider it

2:27:49um

2:27:50For for the future for each of the years. Hey everybody. Thanks for the question. Um, so through the chair to the counselor

2:28:08Um, yeah, it it was something that was considered by staff. So, um with the community investment strategy update

2:28:16Um, it was really focused around the three priorities and within a single pool of funding

2:28:23Um, so this was considered by staff and ultimately we did not recommend the approach for a variety of different reasons

2:28:29Um, one being the size of the pool of funding and the number of sectors seeking an increase in funding

2:28:37Um, as well, we determined that the multiple funding pools separated by sector could become too restrictive

2:28:43Um and divided and would move away from the priorities

2:28:48Um as the focus for the funding

2:28:51Um, and for the outcomes that we're hoping to achieve with the program

2:28:58Thank you

2:28:59Out of curiosity through you chair

2:29:02What would the size of the pool be better for a split?

2:29:10Through the chair to the counselor we haven't explored exact

2:29:14Number of what the total pool would need to look like

2:29:18We were yeah, we were looking at within within existing pools and what we could do with uh with those funds with those programs

2:29:31Are there any other questions comments?

2:29:34Okay, is uh, uh, counselor boosted hill

2:29:37Yes, thank you and uh through the chair just uh clarification that the micro grant program still includes the split

2:29:46Uh between the arts focus development and community development kind of

2:29:51Uh through the chair to the counselor. Yes, that's correct. So the micro grant program would still split between the arts and um,

2:29:58And non-arts applications

2:30:01Okay

2:30:03Anyone else?

2:30:05Okay, then the motion has been moved and seconded and so I will go to the question. Are there anyone opposed?

2:30:13Seeing none that carries

2:30:16Okay, we've been pretty

2:30:19Pretty unanimous tonight

2:30:22Impressive so the last item is the mccollin's bridge municipal class environmental assessment and we have three

2:30:30Delegations so I will start with

2:30:33Uh, Mr. Scarrett. Hello, can everybody see me hear me?

2:30:43Yes, I can

2:30:45Terrific, thank you. Hello chair downer and counselors. Mr. Mayor. My name is Brian scarrett. I'm delegating on behalf of urban park 12

2:30:53supporting the staff recommendation to rehabilitate and strengthen mccollin's bridge

2:30:58There have been many conversations about mccollin's bridge since the committee of the whole meeting where you voted in favor of the preferred alternative

2:31:06Most of them have focused on the cost of repair and restoration versus the cost of replacement

2:31:11Those conversations have reduced the complexity of a cost-benefit analysis to a two-dimensional punch line

2:31:18old bridge expensive new bridge cheap

2:31:21In 2004 the bridge was designated under the ontario heritage act

2:31:26And was ranked third out of 60 in the report grand old bridges the grand river watershed bridge inventory

2:31:32In regards to the heritage river status of the grand river, which includes the aramasa

2:31:38The report quotes grca chair peter krauss

2:31:42The loss of one feature or value does not warrant the loss of the heritage river status

2:31:48It is the cumulative effect of the loss of many of these features

2:31:51Which would cause the canadian heritage rivers board to reevaluate the status of the grand river

2:31:58Identifying those heritage bridges bridges important to the designation

2:32:03provides a better context for consideration in this regard

2:32:07In 2013 the bridge was listed in an even more extensive grand river bridge inventory

2:32:12It ranked second in significance of 167 bridges with eight out of nine heritage act criteria

2:32:21And just yesterday june 22nd

2:32:242026 the ontario reformatory heritage conservation district bylaw took effect

2:32:31In which city council further protected mccollin's bridge as a heritage asset in the conservation district

2:32:38And that word asset is the key to this discussion and is the aspect of the cost benefit analysis that is missing

2:32:44An asset has implied value

2:32:47A stock holding is an asset in your portfolio a player is an asset to their team

2:32:52A violin is an asset to the orchestra

2:32:55But unlike those a heritage asset cannot be acquired

2:32:59It cannot be ordered from amazon hired or manufactured. It cannot be trained for or traded and it cannot not be engineered

2:33:07Heritage assets can only result literally from the test of time to be managed and valued or lost

2:33:15Suggesting a steel fabricated bridge can be sympathetic to the old design is true

2:33:20It's also kind of silly. It simply cannot replace a heritage asset

2:33:24So the decision matrix for repairing mccollin's bridge shifts from old versus new to value for money

2:33:32Yes, a new bridge gets us cross river connectivity

2:33:35But restoring mccollin's bridge gives us literally an irreplaceable asset and cross river connectivity

2:33:45Like its role in the grand river bridge inventory mccollin's bridge is an asset in the ontario reformatory hcd

2:33:52It is a thread in that fabric

2:33:54The loss of one of those threads doesn't jeopardize the hcd

2:33:57But the cumulative effect of the loss of too many of these features would be to erase the conservation district itself

2:34:04And with stone walls failing the chimney and powerhouse planned for demolition

2:34:08The greenhouses collapsed the native sun's murals peeling from the walls and the trestle bridge having been demolished just last year

2:34:15We have to ask how many more threads can be removed

2:34:18The cost benefit analysis is an important conversation and the councillor is calling for it to be examined and done well to raise it

2:34:25But for that analysis to be meaningful it must account for all benefits

2:34:30In regards to cost there is another element of the conversation that is raised

2:34:34The staff report refers to the canadian highway bridge code standards

2:34:39Kate berry in the engineering department has been very helpful in helping me navigate this aspect of the discussion

2:34:46But the short version is that the restoration as presented

2:34:49Restores mccollin's bridge to be capable of carrying a five-axle transport truck

2:34:55On the other hand there is a standard for pedestrian bridges which does not anticipate heavy vehicle loading

2:35:00And if cost is truly the issue then I would suggest investigating the benefit of restoring mccollin's bridge to canadian standards association

2:35:08as seven specifications

2:35:11In missing the heritage value of the bridge

2:35:14And not investigating the pedestrian standards for a potentially less expensive option

2:35:19These conversations have been missing the bridge for the bridge work. Thank you

2:35:24Thank you. Are there any questions of the delegate?

2:35:30Seeing none. Thank you. Mr. Scarab. The second one. Thank you

2:35:37The second one is uh james smith

2:35:40Good evening and uh, thank you for the opportunity

2:36:03Thank you for the opportunity. My name is james smith and I want to thank city staff

2:36:07For the recommendation to restore the mccollin's bridge and for the committee of the whole for accepting these recommendations

2:36:14I respectfully urge council to ratify the decision of the committee of the whole

2:36:20So i'm here is something of a reverse mark anthonies funeral oration as i'm here to praise the bridge and not bury it

2:36:29um last week I missed the

2:36:32Lancaster snowbirds fly by in hamilton and my connection with the Lancaster

2:36:39And the appreciation appreciation of it is a based part on my wife's great uncle

2:36:44An rcaf's youngest wing commander who died in action at the controls of one and as a kid growing up in atobico

2:36:51We had a neighbor who was also a lank pilot who had worked for the avro company

2:36:58I think both men's would both men would be pleased to know a lancaster is being preserved in air weirdly condition

2:37:04although i'm sure

2:37:06Like many of us they would have loved to have seen at least one version of the avro arrow

2:37:12preserved as well

2:37:14I raised the parallel between these historic aircraft and their preservation or lack thereof

2:37:19In this context in part due to the unique wing like design arch

2:37:25Design of the arches of the mcclellan bridge, but also to underscore how pennywise and pound foolish decisions

2:37:33often

2:37:34Can

2:37:35Similar to the loss of the avro arrow lead to sincere sense of loss in years to come

2:37:41If they're not retained used and kept in working conditions

2:37:45I appreciate the difference in cost between replacement and restoration and as counsel your responsibility to be prudent with our finances

2:37:54Respectfully, I contend that replacement versus restoration cost difference is not as simple as one would have you believe

2:38:01replacement only achieves one outcome a bridge

2:38:06Restoration of mcclellan's bridge achieves five additional outcomes

2:38:11preservation of a heritage asset as we approach our bicentennial illustrates consistency and leadership on the heritage file that's really part of

2:38:20golf's brand

2:38:22Two it honors the overwhelming view of the citizens who participated in the engagement process

2:38:29number three it avoids a reconsider of motion as

2:38:34We heard earlier mcclellan's bridge status under part five of the heritage act has just been passed

2:38:41Four as renovations can begin quite quickly compared to a new bridge design and construction

2:38:48restoration reconnects a safe trail crossing of the aramosa in a more timely fashion

2:38:54And number five it retains the upfront carbon in the existing structure

2:39:01And if you're not familiar with the concept, I'd be happy to answer some questions about that in conclusion

2:39:07Given the rarity and significance of mcclellan's bridge

2:39:10There may be opportunity to access funds from upper levels of government to accomplish this renovation

2:39:17I respectfully submit that value engineering may also be undertaken to reduce possible costs

2:39:24As was mentioned earlier. I heard

2:39:28Reducing the standard to a pedestrian bridge rather than a highway bridge

2:39:34As architect author and tmu professor of design loyte alter has written generally renovations versus new construction

2:39:42have two 80 20 rules

2:39:45renovation projects tend to be weighted 80 towards labor and 20 towards material

2:39:52so renovation will help

2:39:55employ people more than a

2:39:58replacement

2:39:59The other 80 20s rule is canadian content

2:40:03Generally speaking according to to professor alter

2:40:09A renovation project will have

2:40:12A much greater amount of canadian content compared to a

2:40:19New bridge

2:40:21Respectfully, I urge council to ratify the decision of the committee of the whole

2:40:26Thank you

2:40:28Thank you. Are there any questions for the

2:40:32Seeing none, thank you very much. Thanks for the opportunity

2:40:36I would call upon alexander smith now

2:40:51Madam chair, mayor guthrie and members of council

2:40:54I come before you to plead for the life of my hypothetical client mcquillan's bridge

2:41:00I've pled a great many cases during my professional career

2:41:04But this is my first capital case where the very life of my client is at stake

2:41:10You're about to vote on whether to demolish mcquillan's bridge and bury it in a landfill

2:41:16mcquillan's bridge has served us well for 110 years

2:41:20embodying the the tradition from horse drawn vehicles to motorized forms of transportation

2:41:26And is an important link to the city's pattern of growth and development

2:41:31For the last two decades mcquillan's bridge has served as an act of transportation crossing of the armosa river

2:41:39Serving a vital connection for hiking and cycling trails in the city's east end

2:41:46How the city how has the city responded to 110 years of faithful service?

2:41:52It has not spent a dime to maintain the structural integrity of the bridge limiting spending to

2:41:59minor maintenance issues including litter cleanup brush cleanup and routine bridge

2:42:05bridge inspections

2:42:07In other words the city's maintenance policy for mcquillan's bridge has been demolition by neglect

2:42:15The heritage value of mcquillan's bridge is well documented

2:42:20This council last confirmed on May the 12th of this year when it passed a bylaw that formally designated

2:42:28the Ontario reformatory heritage conservation district under part five of the

2:42:33Ontario heritage heritage act and recognize mcquillan's bridge as a heritage attribute that supports the cultural heritage value

2:42:41or interest of that hcd

2:42:45And to quote and I quote the bylaw ensure that heritage assets are not diminished

2:42:52Or run the risk of

2:42:54demolition as a result of neglect

2:42:57I

2:42:58Rhetorically asked those counselors who are considering voting to demolish mcquillan's bridge

2:43:05Are you not concerned about the hypocrisy of voting to safeguard a heritage asset and then a mere six weeks later

2:43:14Voting to demolish it

2:43:16Do you not care about the thousands of taxpayers dollars the process to clear the way for demolition of a designated heritage asset will cost

2:43:27The staff report estimates

2:43:29The design and construction costs for option two to be 2.9 million dollars

2:43:35The design and construction costs for option four to be two or sorry 1.2 million

2:43:42It is clear. I submit that the 1.2 million dollar figure is nowhere near the actual cost to replace mcquillan's bridge

2:43:51First of all, it doesn't include the hundreds of thousands of dollars

2:43:54required to demolish and dispose of mcquillan's bridge

2:43:58More significantly the staff report for the emma url pedestrian bridge

2:44:03Estimated the cost of designing and building a single spute steel span for that project to be 3.23 million dollars

2:44:13in

2:44:152020 construction prices

2:44:17How can it be that the city's estimate for an 81 foot single steel span bridge emma url

2:44:24was 3.23 million in 2020

2:44:29Whereas the estimate for a 70 foot single spills steel span for stone road is only 1.2 million

2:44:38dollars

2:44:39in

2:44:40Sorry in 2026

2:44:43I have no idea what the actual cost to replace mcquillan's bridge will be

2:44:48But I respectfully submit neither do you we all know it will be much greater than 1.2 million

2:44:56In my respectful submission

2:44:58council should do the right thing

2:45:01And rehabilitate mcquillan's bridge as the staff as your staff recommend

2:45:07Giving the people of guelph not just a way to get across the river

2:45:12But also preserving a significant heritage landmark for future generations. Those are my respectful submissions

2:45:21Thank you. Are there any questions?

2:45:26Seeing none, thank you. Thank you. Thank you and thanks to your patients too

2:45:30Um

2:45:32Okay, so we'll go to the if we could put the motion down and then we'll go to questions

2:45:40Somebody put the

2:45:44Pass somebody. Okay

2:45:46Could I have a mover?

2:45:48At councillor classon seconded by council coran

2:45:53Are there any questions of staff?

2:45:57Councillor gollard

2:46:00Thank you and to your chair, donor

2:46:03Perhaps before I get into my questions, there were a couple of statements made by the last

2:46:08Delegated if I could just have clarity on that on the

2:46:13The price and the distance between the two bridges that were mentioned so just so that we could understand

2:46:18Um, what the difference between the cost of the emma to arrow versus the mcquillan bridge

2:46:24Proposal for a steel option

2:46:30Through you chair to the councillor. Okay, so

2:46:33Um

2:46:34to L bridge is a span of 81 meters

2:46:38The total project cost to date is five point one million dollars for that bridge

2:46:45It's a steel girder bridge with a concrete deck

2:46:49The type of construction

2:46:50It's on piled foundations and so in contrast to the recommended solution for mcquillan's bridge the rehabilitated

2:46:57Uh reinforced concrete boasting that has a span of 21 meters. So it's about a quarter of the span

2:47:05um

2:47:06And the estimate at this stage in the ea study is 2.7 million

2:47:11construction

2:47:14And you would also like the

2:47:16alternative for

2:47:18Replace with steel

2:47:19Yeah, so for that one, it's assuming a prefabricated steel truss on concrete footings

2:47:26Um, it would have a longer span

2:47:28Um, it would be we'd do a longer span bridge than the existing

2:47:33So it'd be around 35 to 40 meter spans about half of the emma to arrow span

2:47:39And that the estimate for that one is 1.13 million dollars in this ea study

2:47:47Thank you and that estimate it does include the demolition cost as well as the rebuild

2:47:51That's correct. All of the options that require removal of the existing include for that

2:47:57Okay. Okay. Thank you for that. Um, you did mention the the cost of the the staff recommendation which is to

2:48:05Strengthened and to to rebuild the cement bridge

2:48:09Now a couple of the delegates they mentioned this

2:48:12That that it would to rebuild it up to the standard for vehicle traffic

2:48:17But that there were alternate standards

2:48:19Is it possible that as part of the process you could look to

2:48:23Rebuild it to a pedestrian standard for a lower cost?

2:48:29Through you chair to councillor goller

2:48:32Um, yeah, so if I can just elaborate on that a little bit. So this ea study we've used

2:48:37This csa s6 code loading code

2:48:41We've used the same loading for all six options

2:48:44For consistency and that assumes that the bridge will support pedestrians and maintenance vehicle loading

2:48:51Um, this is really a conservative and a consistent approach for us to use to costing and comparing the options

2:48:58And it ensures that we can use vehicles to maintain the structure, you know for sweeping cleaning processes

2:49:06the um

2:49:07The alternative loading that was mentioned the pedestrian loading. It's called csa s7

2:49:13It is a lighter loading class

2:49:16Um, it would just mean that the bridge would not be used by any vehicles whatsoever

2:49:21um

2:49:23It could result in some cost savings. We think they would be minimal for the

2:49:28rehabilitation solution

2:49:30um

2:49:32For this stage of work at ea study, we've we've used the more conservative approach. We've applied it consistently if we were to

2:49:40Use the lighter loading case for the rehabilitation. We would also apply that to the other options too. So you could see

2:49:47um

2:49:48Cost savings for all of the options we'd keep, you know, we'd look to keep that consistency

2:49:54um

2:49:55so

2:49:57We have we don't propose to um, we wouldn't recommend

2:50:00So changing the loading case that we're using at this ea study stage

2:50:04But it's certainly something that we would look at as part of our regular value engineering once we get into detailed design

2:50:11Work in the future. Okay. So so through you chair for the purposes of tonight

2:50:17Not to ask you to go back and to recost it but

2:50:20If council were to go with the staff recommendation

2:50:24Does that mean that as part of the next steps you would be looking at possible ways to reduce the cost from the 2.9 million dollars to

2:50:32to a lower amount

2:50:36Through the chair to councillor Goller. Yes through detailed design, we will always look at, you know, are there cost savings?

2:50:42We will need to take into consideration the future use

2:50:46whether it makes sense

2:50:48to actually

2:50:50Reduce the loading of that bridge or not

2:50:54While we look through

2:50:56Detailed design and value engineering

2:50:58Okay, okay, and um through that process would any of that come back to council us?

2:51:04information once you've done that review so that

2:51:07We know before the the bridge reconstruction happens. How much it would cost

2:51:15Uh through the chair to council galler that that's not something we would typically bring back

2:51:21If we found cost savings on any project through the value engineering we would

2:51:26Do that

2:51:27Again, I go back to we want to make sure we're designing the bridge for its future life in the best state

2:51:34That we can okay. Okay. I appreciate that

2:51:38and and through you chair

2:51:40One of the considerations that that we have on the

2:51:44On the cost of this project is the timeline until when it would actually get built as I understand it if we

2:51:51Go ahead and support the staff recommendation today. We are looking at the bridge being constructed in

2:51:582028 is that is that correct or

2:52:03Through the chair to council galler. That's correct 2028 construction construction. Yeah, and and if we were to say

2:52:10actually

2:52:11We are not sure about the criteria used

2:52:13We want to send it back to for a reevaluation of the criteria because I understand

2:52:18We cannot choose an outcome

2:52:20We have to set the criteria and if we change the criteria send it back for a review

2:52:25When does that potentially you know knowing that the community as they have told us if we send it back

2:52:31There would be challenges to the to the heritage

2:52:34To removing the heritage designation

2:52:36When would that possibly have us looking at the construction of the bridge if given the delays of

2:52:44Of redoing the process

2:52:49Through the chair to council galler if everything were to line up and and all the processes to fall into place

2:52:57and

2:52:59Heritage processes start design

2:53:02construction would it would still be planned for 2028 again, that's if everything

2:53:07Falls into place

2:53:10as expected

2:53:12Okay, okay. Thank you very much for that. Thank you chair

2:53:17Are there any other

2:53:19Questions or comments? Okay, council caron and then council gibson

2:53:25Thank gibson and hate and had their hands up before you council gibson. Sorry. I think I did go to you first before

2:53:33Thank you through you chair downer and thank you to staff for clarifying that the the cost of the replacement was in fact

2:53:40included in the demolition of the

2:53:43Existing bridge. So that was a bit of misinformation there. I really take exception to

2:53:47Anything that we hear at council from delegates. I did take a little exception tonight with the

2:53:52insistence of the hypocrisy and the hypocritical positions that

2:53:57were stated

2:53:59And I just wanted to bring back some a little bit of corporate history

2:54:04I don't have to go very far back

2:54:06February 25th

2:54:08of 2025

2:54:10Council voted to designate the I just looked it up on my phone council looked to death

2:54:15He they voted unanimously to designate the dm. Rutherford family conservatory

2:54:19On christie lane on the university of wealth and then immediately voted to demolish it and preserve some of its steel

2:54:26We are not being hypocritical by looking at a heritage designated landmark

2:54:32Looking to commemorate it moving forward unless we are all being hypocritical on this entire council

2:54:38None of us are being hypocritical by suggesting that we can replace the bridge and pay homage to the heritage

2:54:44Of the site because we all did it a year and a half ago at the university wealth with the conservatory

2:54:50I wanted to confirm but I found it through the news article that we did in fact designate that

2:54:56that

2:54:56Conservatory as a heritage

2:54:59asset and then we also permitted for the demolition of that asset

2:55:03so

2:55:05My vote is my vote. I don't intend to rehash the entire argument from committee the whole

2:55:10I think I don't think any of us have changed our minds, but I think it's very important

2:55:15That we reserve the word hypocrite

2:55:18So only the real instances of where that occurs

2:55:21This council is not being hypocritical by proposing or having differences of opinion on this asset because we have acted this way in the past

2:55:29Thanks for English

2:55:34council caron

2:55:39Thanks

2:55:41This goes back to 2004 for me

2:55:44So, you know, this issue is is something the community has been following for a long time

2:55:50When first designated under part four there was a commitment to the community to restore

2:55:55And and cost was minimal to to continue the maintenance

2:56:01On a regular annual basis, they continued to ask about the ea and the the process and the timelines

2:56:08uh and uh and and the designation under part five in the gid which was most most recent and I I

2:56:16The the comment about hypocrisy is is curious to me because the again very very different situations that there was no

2:56:25Rehabilitation or restoration potential for the conservatory. There was a very different

2:56:32situation we were not the owners

2:56:34And and the maintenance and future use was was certainly a different circumstance

2:56:40So I don't want to use the two as comparison

2:56:42I think really this comes back to a long standing commitment to the community that that we would preserve and maintain this bridge and restore it

2:56:51Those commitments were made in 2004 along with our partners with the post-lynch township who I recall

2:56:58speaking with as chair of heritage wealth at the time about

2:57:02conserving their heritage as well

2:57:04because it's built between just after world war one

2:57:08and

2:57:10I think that I don't want to talk to the heritage attributes because that's been well articulated

2:57:14Not only in the designation but by previous delegates

2:57:18my last comment is

2:57:21The number of bridges we've lost so we we lost the tress bridge last year year before within the last two years

2:57:27um allen's bridge

2:57:29we voted um about

2:57:31replacement of allen's bridge

2:57:34there's there's very few examples where we can continue to

2:57:39preserve our river crossing heritage

2:57:43And we've just spent a lot of time talking about the trail system

2:57:47On the gid lands and the trails that link to this bridge. So I think I really hope council supports that

2:57:53I I certainly I don't want to say that cost

2:57:57Is not a factor but cost was a factor in the ea as well and our consultants looked at all of the factors

2:58:04together and came up with a recommendation that restoration

2:58:08When all those factors were taken into consideration was still their recommendation

2:58:14My question though is one of the the the um questions about

2:58:19demolition

2:58:21talked about the cost of demolition being included and I understand that that is the case

2:58:26but the cost of the in of doing another ea

2:58:30in the um removal of the footings is something that I would like clarification on and then we did just have a

2:58:38comment about

2:58:40all of the if everything goes as planned with removing heritage designations that 2028 would still be the

2:58:47Potential date of a new bridge, but I want to also clarify that is if everything goes

2:58:55According to plan as in the removal of the designation if there's a legal challenge to that designation that is not a smooth transition

2:59:03Of those processes. So if there is a legal challenge to that designation

2:59:07And then the decision is upheld that it does meet part four and part five

2:59:12And it should be conserved if that's the the the outcome of the legal challenge

2:59:18Where would that put us in terms of timing for?

2:59:22Reconstruction if we have to go with option two three years from now after a ruling of the ol team

2:59:30We'll pose that to staff

2:59:43through the chair

2:59:45to house the current

2:59:48We do believe the best estimate that

2:59:51um

2:59:52If if there was a legal challenge to this that we would most likely lose at least a year

2:59:59If not potentially longer

3:00:02to either

3:00:04construction or

3:00:05rehabilitation

3:00:07Should the legal outcome result back to that?

3:00:12So that's our best estimate at this time

3:00:15On if there was a legal challenge

3:00:20Okay, and then the second question does the the footing if the footings of the existing bridge have to be removed

3:00:26Is there additional ea work that would need to be done?

3:00:32um

3:00:33through the chair to councillor cloran the the ea study assumes that um

3:00:40Obviously if we're rehabilitating the bridge, we're keeping the footings if we're replacing the bridge

3:00:45Um, the new one would have a wider span the existing footings

3:00:49The assumption is that they would be kind of trimmed off at at ground level at grade

3:00:54So we wouldn't be excavating removing varied structures

3:00:59um, so that's the basis of how it how it's been uh, costed for their

3:01:05replacement options

3:01:18Do you have any other questions?

3:01:19No further questions. Those were just clarifications. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Okay, uh, councillor to

3:01:28Thank you through you madam chair

3:01:31I guess for me like i'm just trying to be as objective with this as possible based on the numbers and the memo the staff provided to us

3:01:38They're in my opinion. There are two choices one from an asset management lens

3:01:44And maintenance lens and the second as a design choice

3:01:47Look just looking at the math from our staff the current option is 2.7 million dollars to rehabilitate

3:01:54This brutalist bridge and there's also a 30 year light service life. That's estimated

3:02:01with

3:02:02$5,000 in annual maintenance costs

3:02:05And then the other option which we've talked about alternative four is 1.13 million dollars

3:02:12with an estimated 75 year design life

3:02:15and two

3:02:17$2,000 annual maintenance costs

3:02:20And this is also less likely to be tagged up by graffiti

3:02:24Both options maintain the trail connection and provide safe access

3:02:28Which is what we all ultimately want than the day

3:02:32And even after accounting for the additional ea and heritage work along with the high end estimate for potential appeal

3:02:40If this were to be appealed

3:02:43There's still one million dollars

3:02:46More in savings for the for this contemporary

3:02:49Steel trust bridge if we were to go with that

3:02:52So I think my urging to council tonight is we let's just

3:02:57consider the options before us

3:03:00and exercise some restraint towards our taxpayers because

3:03:04There are options here at the table and we don't have to go with this recommendation

3:03:09if it were to

3:03:10fail

3:03:12So that's just my two cents. I have a feeling that

3:03:15everyone's

3:03:17Decisions have been made, but I just thought I'd make that case

3:03:19Okay, thank you. Mr. Chu. Councillor Chew

3:03:23Councillor Caden

3:03:25Thank you through you madam chair to staff

3:03:34So the the medium option if we

3:03:39If we end up in court

3:03:44Is about one year you'd said

3:03:46but

3:03:47The maximum I had heard is

3:03:51Is about three years

3:03:54Is that correct?

3:03:58Through the chair

3:03:59to councillor Caden

3:04:01That is correct. You know, it might take a year to

3:04:05It may take up to a year to even get to court and then it could take potentially one to three years

3:04:10So so we're anywhere from, you know, potentially a year to to three or four

3:04:16to work through that

3:04:18And then construction would be after that so probably like six months more to complete it

3:04:24I don't know how long it would be

3:04:29Through the chair to council Caden

3:04:32That would be assuming that we would move ahead with a detailed design

3:04:39While we're in that process

3:04:42risking that

3:04:44Risking the outcome

3:04:46Would add an additional most likely six to eight months of construction after that. That's correct

3:04:52And

3:04:54During this time stone road in that section always has to be 40 kilometers per hour, right?

3:05:02Through the chair to council Caden that is correct. Okay, and

3:05:10And the the high end for legal fees on this is about 300 thousand

3:05:17dollars, right if we if we go through the two

3:05:21times that folks can take us to the OLT

3:05:25In the heritage processes

3:05:27It could be about that much additional cost

3:05:35Through the chair to council Caden that is the potential cost that has been provided to council

3:05:42Okay, and we could lose at the OLT we could be told that we have to rehabilitate the bridge anyway

3:05:52Through the chair to council Caden that that could be the ultimate outcome. That is correct

3:05:59And

3:06:00Say we were to go through it

3:06:02We go through the OLT because one of the delegates, you know

3:06:06Literally did court proceedings for us. So I I just think it's it's a

3:06:11Some likely potential

3:06:15So if we go through all that and we do keep permission and we've done all the extra costs for the environmentalists and stuff like that

3:06:21There there's a habitat issue, right? This is what I heard in the last meeting is that one of the reasons that this was

3:06:28selected as having having a better outcome is because

3:06:34That's a natural heritage area

3:06:36And we would have to be in the river

3:06:38In whatever habitats are there as well as dealing with stuff on the outside areas, correct?

3:06:53Through the chair to councillor Caden the

3:06:56the overall evaluation and the natural environment criteria was quite

3:07:01evenly scored across the options

3:07:04um

3:07:05When you look into the details of the different like sub criteria for natural environment, there are differences

3:07:12um, I can take a look at that if

3:07:14um, if you want more information

3:07:18You just mentioned in the last meeting that there was habitat

3:07:21Things and that's why one of the reasons why it was scored higher. So I was just asking

3:07:27If we had to demolish the bridge and then rebuild it

3:07:31There's going to be more of a footprint

3:07:35Than if we just restore the bridge

3:07:42through uh through the chair to councillor Caden. I'm just uh, I'm just taking a look at our

3:07:48detailed evaluation here

3:07:51um

3:07:52So we can just to recap on the comparison between

3:07:57the recommended alternative to rehabilitation and the

3:08:01uh, second place our preferred solution of remove and replace

3:08:07um

3:08:08So the main yeah the main places where there's a differences

3:08:12um

3:08:13Sub criteria number three was temporary or permanent impact on wildlife habitat

3:08:19um alternative for remove and replace

3:08:22um

3:08:23scored slightly higher

3:08:26um

3:08:29That was the opportunity to incorporate wildlife crossing in the new bridge

3:08:37And um, which you don't really have that opportunity with with the existing

3:08:43um

3:08:45and in terms of wetland

3:08:48um

3:08:50Removed that they they they scored the same

3:08:53In those categories

3:08:56um

3:08:59And I think the rehabilitation option score slightly better in terms of impacts on

3:09:05habitat of species at risk

3:09:08Um, but really the the differences are not significant between the two options

3:09:13I was just remembering the habitat. So I'm just glad that I remember that correctly

3:09:18um

3:09:21So

3:09:23For me

3:09:25It seems that

3:09:27We could end up spending

3:09:30three four extra years before being able to

3:09:33um

3:09:35Get this started if we're allowed to get it started we could do that whole amount of time

3:09:40And keep everything in limbo and not have kids crossing

3:09:45a pedestrian bridge and

3:09:49Then we could lose in court we could spend 300 000 and then we've saved nothing and

3:09:57It just feels that because we've designated our own

3:10:02Bridge twice

3:10:05And there are a lot of risks and they're real risks

3:10:08They're not just is it not a given that we end up getting to build that other bridge. There's other stuff involved

3:10:15I I think it's um prudent for us. I think it's

3:10:20Fiscally prudent and I think it's very conscientious of the drivers who are having to drive

3:10:26Very slowly in a one area on a

3:10:29Normally higher speed road

3:10:32I think it's important for us to vote for the staff recommendation. Thank you

3:10:38Thank you. Are there any other comments?

3:10:42Questions counselor alt and we do have to have a at 11

3:10:47I think we're we need a motion then right? Okay, so and then counselor how's her? Thank you very much chair

3:10:54Downer I will be supporting the staff recommendation and I'm not going to deal with the aesthetics brutalism from the 1970s

3:11:02Not brutalism from 1916 when this bridge was built by either returning veterans from

3:11:09From world war one or those who could not serve for whatever reason is worth preserving

3:11:15But what's really most important about this for me is governance

3:11:18And the governance part of this that is really elemental is that if we look at the history of wealth putting delays on

3:11:24Decisions to renovate to build to rebuild

3:11:28We cost ourselves an extraordinary amount of money

3:11:31And we cost it for the riverrun center. We cost it for the library

3:11:35We move the library as a consequence of having lost a building. We cost it for a city hall

3:11:40We cost it for a police station and the list goes on

3:11:44Consequently, I am not prepared at this point

3:11:48To defer on something that is a decision that was made long ago by another council

3:11:54But I have to accept that that decision was made with the best of intentions and that our to attend our intention right now

3:12:02Is to consider whether this bridge is worth conserving?

3:12:05And furthermore recognize that the reason that this bridge was recommended to be conserved in the first place

3:12:11Was to save money

3:12:14On the span that is there right now

3:12:16Which I have not yet heard being factored in to any of the costs that we're talking about

3:12:21I think we owe it

3:12:23To those councils that came before us that recognized that they could save money

3:12:29On the span there and recognize that there was value in a heritage structure from 1916

3:12:35Which would recognize the veterans of world war one and others from world war one that built this

3:12:40And that we could honor those individuals and whether I like the bridge or not. It's immaterial

3:12:46It's about governance and it's about making common sense out of finance

3:12:51Thank you councillor hauser

3:12:54I was close to about that but um

3:12:58Through you chair, I just wanted to remind everyone as well that uh

3:13:01Like this decision was made decades ago. It has been part of the capital plan for decades

3:13:06So I don't understand why it's such a question now and this has been the plan

3:13:10So that's all

3:13:12Yeah, that's it's in the budget. Is there any other questions or comments?

3:13:17Mayor Guthrie

3:13:20Hey, thanks everyone and thank you madam chair appreciate it

3:13:23um

3:13:24I just have one question and then and then I'll ask if you want to

3:13:28Comments or I can go put me at the end or if other people want to go ahead and me. I don't care

3:13:33My question through you is just an easy kind of yes or no

3:13:37um through you to staff

3:13:40Were the actual financial

3:13:43amounts and impacts

3:13:46Known to anybody prior to when the committee

3:13:50Of the whole report was released

3:14:06through you

3:14:08the chair to

3:14:10mega three

3:14:11so the um

3:14:13The committee of the whole package and the staff report is the first time that the the detailed dollar amounts have been

3:14:20published and shared shared with members of council and

3:14:25You know available for review by council and the public. That's right. Thank you for answering it. So

3:14:32Succinctly I appreciate that

3:14:34You've answered it accurately and succinctly. I appreciate it. So madam chair. Oh, that was my only

3:14:40That was my only uh question

3:14:43Um, so I'll leave it there. I do have comments, but I'll let you choose if I'm now a leader

3:14:48Go ahead now

3:14:51Okay, thank you madam chair through you. Um

3:14:54So, uh, I think we all know where this might be going which is fine

3:14:58It's a good debate and a good discussion. Uh, it's not a problem

3:15:03We all have differences of opinion on this and that's totally totally fine

3:15:08You know the uh first delegate mentioned it shouldn't be as simple as

3:15:13Old bridge expensive new bridge cheap

3:15:17Um, well for for me it kind of it

3:15:21It actually kind of is that and I I have no problem kind of hanging my hat on that

3:15:26um based on my question

3:15:29Which was just validated by staff

3:15:33Um

3:15:35Nobody knew the costs

3:15:37Until the committee of the whole report came out

3:15:41So, you know for me

3:15:43I don't want to go back to

3:15:47Hanging my hat on a 2004 decision of council or even the six week ago decision of gid lands

3:15:55Because we only knew about the actual costs

3:16:01About a week and a half before the committee of the whole meeting at the beginning of this month

3:16:06So I just I just can't get my head around how we should ignore and I'm not going to ignore

3:16:14The costs that we didn't know before

3:16:17But now we do and for me it's way too much

3:16:21And for the people that I speak to and I know we have different people that we all speak to

3:16:27But I can tell you that this issue

3:16:32Is an expensive issue

3:16:34And a lot of people are watching this one

3:16:39This is one that many people are watching

3:16:42And they think that the amount of people I've talked to have said

3:16:47That this is too much money at this time

3:16:51And so people might have a difference of opinion and want to land on spending it because of the heritage value

3:16:58And I honor that for if that's your opinion

3:17:01But I'm I'm looking at it through a different lens that it is too much money

3:17:07I think the bridge is needed for

3:17:10The connection from one side to the other

3:17:13And we can honor that history in a different way

3:17:17And save a lot of money

3:17:21I also really appreciate

3:17:23Councillor Gibson

3:17:25Asking the question or some commentary around the hypocrisy statement that was mentioned

3:17:31That really bothered me. I must just admit that I'm loud right now

3:17:35To me, that's not a hypocrisy issue when you don't know what the costs were

3:17:39So we only knew what the costs were for the committee of the whole

3:17:44So now that we are armed with that information

3:17:46I would submit that we are now making information armed fully with the right information to make decisions moving forward

3:17:54Um, I also appreciate Councillor Goller asking about whether or not the demolition costs were included and they were

3:18:02So I appreciate that too

3:18:04Um, and then I you know, I I don't think I you know

3:18:07I'm a opposite of my colleague

3:18:10Councillor Allt that we owe it back to councils from 2004

3:18:15I'm sorry. I want to owe it to the taxpayers today. It's too much money

3:18:21And I I do not think that spending that money now on this bridge

3:18:27It is not it to me is not worth it

3:18:30And I think I know where the vote is going and I fully respect that of all my colleagues

3:18:34But I wanted to be on record

3:18:36To say I think this is one that's being watched

3:18:40And I think that this is way too much money to spend at this time and it's not worth it. Thank you

3:18:47Thank you. Uh, councillor Chew had a question and then we'll go to councillor Plassen

3:18:53Thank you through you madam chair. Just the staff. I'm I'm just

3:18:57Taking a close look at that matrix that you put together and I also see for option four that

3:19:04There is an opportunity for an improved wildlife crossing

3:19:08uh to be

3:19:09Put incorporated into the bridge

3:19:11Can you just speak more to that because this is something new that I that actually just caught my eye that

3:19:17Made me and sent

3:19:19option four a little bit more

3:19:25Through the chair to councillor Chew. Um, yeah, any of the options that involve

3:19:30Constructing a new bridge

3:19:32I'll see we have the detailed design process to

3:19:35Determine what we want that to look like and what features it would have so it does have that opportunity to

3:19:40You know, it could be something like the the shape of the

3:19:44The beams are they underside girders have

3:19:48You know, like an edging that animals can use to to cross the river is it's that kind of thing

3:19:53It's what's being referred to there

3:19:56So there's an opportunity to add into the design as we

3:20:00Get into if we were to choose the new bridge and I just another follow-up too

3:20:05I noticed that it says that the new bridge would allow for greater hydraulic capacity

3:20:11Uh and greater ability to convey future storm flows. What does that mean?

3:20:18That sounds pretty important to me in my opinion

3:20:23Yeah, yeah through through the chair to councillor Chew

3:20:27Um, the options with a new replacement bridge would have a wider span

3:20:31So you have a greater size of opening for to carry river flow. So that's what is being

3:20:38Referred to when we talk about hydraulic capacity

3:20:42Okay, thank you and I would just implore my colleagues. We have a great option. We have a great set of options before us

3:20:50let's

3:20:51Try to be reasonable

3:20:53Respectfully, thank you

3:20:57councillor Plassen

3:21:00Thank you chair downer

3:21:02Just with respect to being reasonable. I think that um, you know, we're the same council who invested three quarters of a million dollar

3:21:10dollars in a hockey tournament next year

3:21:14And I fully supported that and I think is really important for the celebration of

3:21:20Our bicentennial to have the memorial cup hosted in Guelph. I think it's going to leave a great legacy

3:21:25I am I I was supportive of that and I continue to be when I look at this bridge

3:21:31I also see an opportunity for legacy. I see a history of legacy already that has been put in place

3:21:38Whether or not you want to honor that is your decision

3:21:41But I I think that when we look at our assets as a city and as a council, we have to

3:21:48think about

3:21:51A long term about what are those places? What are those?

3:21:55Those things that make Guelph Guelph and I want to harken back to something

3:21:59I think it was I can't remember. Was it council or katin? Was it was it ward?

3:22:05Ward five deserve we deserve nice things too in ward one

3:22:08It was that and and I think that's true

3:22:11I think that's like that was a really funny and and and and real statement

3:22:17That's the piece of heritage that exists in ward one and it it cannot potentially not be there next year

3:22:23And I think that you know given the other discussions that we've had this evening around gid that that bridge serves as and it served until very recently

3:22:34As an important connection point for the trails in our city

3:22:37And I think if we if we look at it that getting it back up and online

3:22:41I think it's going to immediately benefit people

3:22:44it's going to return a connection where a safe connection where there was not one and

3:22:50You know if I want to back out even further

3:22:52I do see the economic benefit of having heritage assets because I see

3:22:57tourism and cycle tourism

3:23:00specifically as being something that is significant for our city maybe not every single day but certainly as we

3:23:07expand our trail networks and

3:23:09Connections to larger trails like the trans canada the g to g

3:23:14I think that's something that we should we should certainly be considering

3:23:17Because those those points those connection points heritage are not people are looking for those things

3:23:21They're like oh, we you know they they open a guidebook and they're like oh there is this bridge

3:23:25And that's a point of interest maybe we can stop and have lunch there

3:23:28And if we are intentional about the maintenance and connection to the trails, I think it would be

3:23:33Um, it would be important, uh, and it will be important if we support it this evening

3:23:40Okay, thank you. Is there anyone else?

3:23:43councillor gibson

3:23:45We're starting to circle

3:23:47We are circling and that's okay. I just these these conversations are prompting other things

3:23:52Every argument that I've heard this evening through you chair down every argument

3:23:55I've heard this morning to restore the bridge was relevant on february 25th last year

3:24:00Well, we voted to allow for the demolition of the conservatory at the university of guelph

3:24:05All these all these arguments are true to this day. These are all

3:24:09Attributes to our city that we have made decisions on in the past

3:24:12And you're respectfully cats councillor grove. I know that you declare a conflict of interest in that meeting

3:24:16Thank you very much. I'll just state that the obvious but there was an option to force the university of guelph to restore that

3:24:22Conservatory is a five million dollar quoted price from the university of guelph

3:24:26The board of governors came to us stating very clearly

3:24:29There's a five million dollar cost to restore the conservatory to 250 000 annual maintenance fee

3:24:35We kindly request you not make us do that

3:24:39And they ricks they respectfully asked us to give them a demolition permit

3:24:43And we obliged we obliged based on cost for them

3:24:47So the idea that there's anything other than a policy like anything other than an asset management decision here

3:24:55We can't have it both ways. We can't talk about being affordable as a city if we're not willing to make affordable decisions

3:25:00so the the

3:25:02The arguments for are the justice prudent today as they were back in february 25th when this entire council voted to allow

3:25:09A heritage designated asset be destroyed with some commemorative plaque attributing to it

3:25:15This is the same scenario where so again not going back on the word hypocrisy, but this is a simple decision of council

3:25:22And it's not a precedent setting decision of council either again

3:25:27Trying to be affordable need to make affordable decisions. Thank you

3:25:31Councillor goller

3:25:35Thank you, and if you could like we are certainly I I appreciate that

3:25:40And through you to staff I I want to follow up on the question of you know

3:25:44Of the the amount of money and where it is coming from

3:25:48So as I understand it we have the reserves for this. Can you confirm?

3:25:53when

3:25:55The decision is made and if we go for the the staff recommendation

3:26:00Does that mean that there would be no impact to the tax base because this is all coming from reserves already in place

3:26:08Or will it mean that new taxation needs to be

3:26:13Put into this to pay for the build

3:26:15I just from from the the response. I understand that we already have the money set aside in the reserves for the

3:26:24The detailed design, but can you confirm for the construction?

3:26:27Those that have to be allocated as part of the capital budget or are we drawing entirely from

3:26:35existing reserves that have already been

3:26:38Collected and are sitting in in the bank per se

3:26:45through the chair to councillor goller

3:26:48We had provided that information. I believe

3:26:55Missal Dwyer is here. Maybe she can come down and just 100 confirmed for you

3:27:11Good evening. Thanks. Uh, so through the chair

3:27:15The there is an allocation for this project in the 2027 capital budget

3:27:20There's part of it budgeted for detailed design in 2026 that's approved

3:27:24And then the construction is included in the 2027 forecast

3:27:29As part of the 2027 budget update, we will be recommending

3:27:34Updates to the budget to work within updated reserve forecast information

3:27:39And so there will be some deferrals and adjustments

3:27:42So there is

3:27:43An allocation that's sufficient right now to support any of the options that were explored through the EA process

3:27:50That's included in the budget

3:27:52but the prioritization of projects

3:27:56And the opportunity cost is still an important consideration for council in this decision

3:28:02Okay, and thank you. So just so that I understand when you say that there have to be the referrals

3:28:07So we have money in a reserve, but if we spend the

3:28:132.7 million dollars on this

3:28:16Then there's something else that is not getting built that is already planned in the tenure forecast. Is that right?

3:28:23Through the chair, um, so we have a reserve forecast and the reserve forecast for capital includes

3:28:31tax supported and rate supported and development charge supported projects

3:28:35And we prioritize all of our capital projects in alignment with that capital prioritization framework moving the most most important

3:28:44priorities of count as established by council ahead

3:28:48and so the

3:28:50development charge

3:28:52collections are

3:28:53seriously lagging

3:28:55This year and so that is the driver of the updates that will be required

3:29:00So to say that there's money allocated in a reserve for this specific project is not quite accurate

3:29:07If there's money

3:29:09Allocated in a capital reserve to support the most important capital priorities of council

3:29:14And we'll be bringing forward recommendations through the next update. Does that help clarify?

3:29:20It does so this then would be competing for those resources with every other

3:29:26project in the the billion dollars of

3:29:28Capital backlog that we have is that correct?

3:29:31Through the chair. Yes, that is

3:29:34Okay, okay. Thank you. And so so just so that i'm perfectly clear

3:29:38It's not that it's going to be new tax dollars, but it's going to be that

3:29:42We have to shift other projects and and put this one in their place

3:29:48So through the chair this one is already part of the plan

3:29:52So it's already part of the plan. It's just it has to be it will be considered in

3:29:57comparison with all the other projects in terms of the

3:30:01Updating of that plan so so I understand how could it already be part of the plan when we didn't actually know what the dollar value

3:30:08Would be until two months ago

3:30:12Through the chair. So there was an estimate and an allocation and the engineering team can

3:30:17Speak to that in more detail and how they do that but those those

3:30:22Plans become more precise as this type of work is done and as design progresses over time

3:30:27Okay, okay. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. I just wanted to get totally clear that that we're not

3:30:34Increasing property taxes to pay for this, but we're just prioritizing between different projects. Thank you. That is helpful

3:30:42Is there anyone else okay, so I have a question

3:30:47So in the memo we received so this is around the cost at the public engagement

3:30:52So the the memo receives as the information presented at the open house number two did not include the detailed cost estimates

3:31:00But it did describe estimated relative costs for each alternative in terms of high

3:31:05Moderate and low so was this already given told to the public that this would be one of the higher cost options

3:31:15Through the through you chair to the chair

3:31:18To counselor down. Yes, that's right. So

3:31:22We had an information board for each option it provided

3:31:27The the scores in each of the criteria

3:31:29So it had to score for the financial criteria and it had some notes to explain

3:31:34How the option compared to the others in terms of it being higher or lower

3:31:38Yeah, so people knew at that open house that it was going to be a higher cost

3:31:42The other thing I just I have to correct

3:31:46Whether it's around hypocrisy or not around the conservatory

3:31:50So I just want to correct some of the the history of that because I was greatly involved

3:31:56So we didn't end up designating the whole building. We designated components of it

3:32:02because

3:32:05Because of it was in such bad shape. So we had to

3:32:10We reduced the features that were designated to the steel and certain certain other things

3:32:18And that they were to be incorporated into

3:32:21Some design in it. So the conservatory itself was not

3:32:25um

3:32:29Designated sort of in situ as it was that it could be rehabilitated at what was going to have to be taken apart anyway

3:32:36um, so I did want to just sort of correct that history and whether it's hypocrisy or not. I mean it

3:32:43The word is offensive sometimes to something so I I hear that I would say the bridge is

3:32:49significantly different in that it is

3:32:53um

3:32:54It's had a part five and it had a part four and it has an Ontario designation on it as well

3:33:01So I'm going to go to the vote now because I'm not going to circle around anymore on this issue

3:33:07um

3:33:11Are those who are opposed?

3:33:13Can you put up your hand?

3:33:17so mayor guthrie

3:33:19counselor gibson counselor chu

3:33:22counselor billings and counselor richardson

3:33:26so that is

3:33:30Through you madam chair that book carries eight to five five eight to five so that path this motion passes

3:33:38Okay, that concludes that and now we're going to go to the bylaws and counselor gibson

3:33:44Would you bring forward the bylaws?

3:33:50Thank you very much. I was just reaching for my agenda again

3:33:54The bylaws 2026 21216

3:33:582026 21241 2026 21245

3:34:032026 21249 2026 21253

3:34:09uh 2026 21265 2026 21266

3:34:142026

3:34:1621269 2026 21273 and 26 2026 21274 would be approved

3:34:24subject to section 284

3:34:272111 subsection 4 of the municipal

3:34:30law

3:34:31And do we have a seconder?

3:34:34Councillor busichail

3:34:35any comments questions

3:34:38Anyone opposed that carries so we just made it to the

3:34:44A couple of minutes before 11

3:34:47We need to adjourn really fast because I have a motion to adjourn

3:34:50Counselor all seconded by counselor how is her we are no adjourned. Thank you everybody and thank you for your patience