Council Planning

4:42Well, good afternoon everyone. It is Tuesday, January 21st, 2025. It's 3.30. And thank you very

4:50much for joining us for our planning meeting. We have, as listed on the open agenda, the opportunity

4:58to move into a closed session. And it's only under one item. It's described as 1242-1270,

5:07Gordon Street and Nine Valley Road, Ontario Land Tribunal Update. This is under Section 239-2E

5:14and F of the Municipal Act regarding litigation or potential litigation, including matters before

5:20administrative tribunals affecting the municipality or local board, and advice that is subject to

5:26solicitor client privilege, including communications necessary for that purpose.

5:32Before I look to my colleagues to consider moving that motion to move into closed, is there any

5:39disclosure of pecuniary interest or any general nature there for that potential item? I don't

5:46hear or see any. And also, I did get formal regrets from Councillor Richardson. Might join later,

5:53but I'll just state that out loud. Obviously, we have regrets as well for Councillor Clawson.

6:00And also, potentially, Councillor Downer. With that, would I look to a colleague to move? Thanks,

6:09Councillor Allt and Councillor Goller will move for the in-camera portion. That item,

6:14is there anything further on that before I call the vote? There is no. I'll call the vote. Is

6:20anyone against moving in closed for that? Nobody. That's unanimous vote. So thank you very much.

6:27We will go and deal with that issue. And as usual, when we are done, I'll come back out with any

6:31high-level summary if necessary. Thank you. Okay, everyone. I'd like to call the meeting back to

36:24order here in an open session. Now, just before we start the formal open session at four o'clock,

36:32I did want to just give a high-level summary of us moving into a closed session

36:38about a half an hour ago under the title 1242-1270 Gordon Street and 9 Valley Road,

36:46the Ontario Land Tribunal update. So just as a summary for that, Council did receive

36:52legal advice and information from our staff in regards to that item. And we did give direction

36:59to staff on that item as well. And that's it for the closed session summary. So moving into the

37:08open session, if you can, if you're able, I'd love it if you could rise as we recognize our

37:15national anthem. Thank you, everyone. And now, just as we continue a moment of silent reflection.

38:57Great. Thank you for our Indigenous territorial acknowledgement. As we gather, let us take time

39:03to reflect on our privilege to live and work here in Guelph, a city that's built over a rich

39:08Indigenous histories. We're guests here, and we should reflect upon the responsibility to care

39:13for this land and the people who live here today and the generations to come. If our actions today

39:18can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention

39:23and gratitude. This place we call Guelph has served as traditional lands and a place of refuge for

39:29many peoples over time, but more specifically, the Anuwanarok and the Honolashoni. This land is held

39:35as the treaty lands and the territory with the Mississaugas of the Credit First Nation, and Guelph

39:40lies directly adjacent to the Haldunman track and is part of a long-established traditional hunting

39:44grounds for the six nations of the Grand River. Many First Nations Inuit Métis people who have

39:50come from across Turtle Island call Guelph home today. Thank you. Is there any disclosure of

39:56pecuniary interest or any general nature thereof for the items on the agenda for us today?

40:02Not hearing or seeing anybody jump up and down there, so we'll move right into the consent

40:08portion of our agenda. There's just the one. It's 56-58 Glasgow Street South. It's the intention

40:15to demolish the cultural heritage resource. There is a recommendation from staff that it be approved.

40:22Is there anyone that needs to pull that? No? Okay, how about someone to move it?

40:29Councillor O'Rourke will move. Galler will second. And I'll look to call the vote.

40:38Thank you for coming, Councillor Downer. And I'll call the vote. Is anyone against?

40:45Nobody. So that's great. Thank you that passes. If anybody was here in the room for that item,

40:52that item is done. It's passed. So thank you very much. And now we're getting into this.

40:58It's just a public meeting now to hear about the draft official plan amendment

41:06and the draft community planning permit by law. And so we're going to have some presentations from

41:13our staff that have been working on this. No delegations signed up in advance, but there is

41:19some correspondence that was attached to the agenda. So this is a unique sort of planning tool

41:27opportunity for the city that other cities have started to use and look into. But we're going to,

41:32as I say, hear from our staff first as a presentation to sort of lay out the groundwork on that.

41:39Get some feedback from us and then staff will take it away from there and come back at another time.

41:45I'll call staff up. I just don't know if I'm going to anybody for opening remarks before we do the

41:50presentation. Nope, we're good to go. All right. So Brenna McKinnon is the project manager and Justine

41:56Giancola. Am I saying that right? Really? Thank you. From Dylan Consulting is here.

42:03We'll just turn it right on over to you. Go right ahead. Thanks.

42:26Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie, members of council, staff and members of the public.

42:32This is a statutory public meeting on the draft official plan amendment and community planning

42:39community planning permit bylaw for the Stone Road, Edinburgh Road area. And it is a bit of a

42:46mouthful. So we'll keep saying community planning permit system or community planning permit bylaw

42:53rather than truncating it to CPP as we planners tend to truncate and shorten everything.

43:02My name is Brenna McKinnon. I'm a project manager in planning services. I'm joined by a member of

43:07our consulting team for this project, Justine Giancola from Dylan Consulting. And we will be

43:12taking you through the project to date. First, we will be giving you a background on the project

43:19followed by a summary of engagement to date. Next, we'll give you a brief overview of what a CPPS is

43:26and a summary of the benefits of a community planning permit system. Finally, we will discuss

43:31what the next steps are for this project. This project is part of the city's eight commitments

43:46of the Housing Accelerator Fund action plan, which is the 21.4 million dollars granted by the

43:56federal government just, I believe, almost a year ago. The city selected the Stone Road, Edinburgh

44:03area as well as the downtown secondary plan area as areas to help meet its aspirational planning

44:09goal of our housing target of 18,000 units by 2031 as set by the province. In late spring 2024,

44:17the city initiated the community planning permit system pilot project for the downtown Stone Road,

44:23Edinburgh Road areas to help advance this goal. The pilot project has the goal of helping to

44:29achieve the creation of 35 affordable housing units. The project is advancing in two phases

44:36with the current focus on the draft community planning permit bylaw and official plan amendment

44:40for the Stone Road, Edinburgh area that is before you today. The second phase will be the development

44:46of a community planning permit bylaw for the downtown secondary plan area once the downtown

44:52height study is complete. To date, there have been a variety of engagement events, including four

45:05open houses with two held in person, one in October 2024 and one in November 2024 at Priority Part

45:14Public School. There have been two virtual open houses, one on November 21st, 2024 and as late as

45:21last week on January 14th, 2025 via Zoom. We've also been at a variety of pop-up events, including

45:30the Shelldale Center, Guelph Farmers Market and Victoria Road Community Center alongside the housing

45:37affordability strategy pop-up events. In addition, there was also a mapping activity and survey

45:43available on the Have Your Say project page. Feedback we received during these pop-up events and

45:50others included transportation and accessibility, so looking at investing more in bike lanes and

45:57pedestrian spaces, improving transit options and addressing traffic congestion and road safety,

46:04parking and traffic management such as reducing large parking lots for other types of development,

46:11implementing red light cameras and better lane markings and balancing parking needs for all users.

46:16Urban design issues such as reflecting Guelph's character and its qualities, creating unique

46:21spaces that fit the local context, promoting durable high quality building materials and

46:27designing to the human scale. Other items include community involvement in this process, providing

46:35clear information on the costs and benefits of such a program, looking at a shift to multi-use

46:43commercial and residential buildings in the area, repurposing some retail spaces for housing or

46:49community needs, of course looking at affordable housing affordability, developing a diverse

46:57affordable housing type and style and promoting higher density housing and addressing issues with

47:03student rentals. On safety and infrastructure again, looking at improving street designs for

47:10pedestrian and cyclist safety, slowing down traffic for safer streets, ensuring accessibility

47:16for all, and finally on community and public spaces, creating a more walkable main street,

47:24so particularly around Stone Road, with family and pet amenities, increasing green spaces and urban

47:32art and supporting small businesses with pop-up areas, better streets, scapes and landscaping.

47:39I'm going to turn the presentation over to Justine to provide information on what a community

47:45planning permit system is, how the process works, and how a community planning permit system

47:50can benefit the City of Guelph. Thank you, Brenna, and thank you, Mayor and Council, for having me

48:02here today. So a community planning permit system is a land-use planning tool available to municipalities

48:11in Ontario, and it was previously known as Development Permit System, or DPS, and so some

48:19municipalities that have gone forward with this tool continue with that language, Development

48:23Permit System. It is interchangeable with Community Planning Permit System. It offers an

48:29alternative way to regulate land uses within a municipality and can be applied to a very specific

48:36area or to an entire municipality. The current project aims to implement a community planning

48:45permit system specifically for Stone and Edinburgh and then for the downtown area,

48:52and when you do have a community planning permit system, when you desire to use one, you need

48:58official plan amendment that forms the enabling policies, as well as a community planning permit

49:04by-law, which ultimately replaces a municipal zoning by-law for that subject geography.

49:13The tool itself has the ability to streamline development approvals, and one of the ways it

49:18does that is by combining zoning, minor variants, and site plan applications into a single development

49:25application process and a single review. That review period is tied to a 45-day review period

49:34compared to those current separate processes that can be upwards of 180 days.

49:41The system itself is more flexible, so municipalities have been asking for a while to have

49:48the ability to do conditional zoning. This tool provides an ability to do that, where you can

49:54indicate criteria conditions where something may be permitted or a certain standard may apply.

50:04So it does allow some flexibility and support local objectives, such as affordable housing,

50:10sustainable design, and environmental protection. This project will create a new land-use planning

50:16tool for the city, is the first time the city is using this tool and is intended really to accelerate

50:22housing supply while providing predictability and stability for the development approvals.

50:29Completing this work will fulfill a commitment made through the receipt of the Housing Accelerator

50:35Fund. So on the screen you'll see a little bit more about the process, the current process,

50:43those separate concurrent processes versus a community planning permit system on the bottom

50:48half. And when you're using a community planning permit system, the draft community planning

50:55permit by-law, which is now being released and was subject to a number of comments in the

51:03open house last week, defines what is permitted and what development standards are applicable to

51:11the subject area. It's often organized into multiple classes, and so in the draft by-law

51:19we have three classes of applications that help organize how an application may need to be processed

51:28and what support studies could need to be required. So class one is intended to capture

51:35applications that meet all the requirements of the by-law. In this case it would be approved by,

51:42based on the draft by-law by the general manager of planning and building services,

51:46or a delegate, and the application still could have complete application requirements in terms of

51:53some support studies and any conditions of approval could still be added on to that application,

52:01and that would be for all development application classes. A class two captures applications that

52:08generally meet the overall by-law standards but requires some amount of variation within the

52:15staff variation threshold established by the by-law itself. So you might think about this as

52:21similar to the minor variance process, but in this case a class two application would be approved by

52:27the general manager of planning and building services or its delegate and be required to

52:32demonstrate adherence with criteria established by the by-law itself. A class three application

52:39captures all applications that generally meets the by-law standards but requires a variation

52:47that's beyond that class two threshold established by the by-law. And in this case a council or committee

52:53approval would be required. Critical to communicate is that anything that would require an official

53:01plan amendment is outside of the ability, this implements the official plan so it's outside

53:06of the ability to deal with through this, and that building permit is also not part of this process.

53:13And lastly anything that requires subdivision of land is also unimpacted by this process.

53:23In terms of why a community planning permit system for the city of Guelph, Guelph's housing

53:29housing affordability strategy targets 18% or 2,640 units of the new ownership homes to be

53:38affordable based on the provincial bulletin benchmark of 398,000 for an ownership unit

53:45or 1,160 to 1,695 for a rental unit depending on the size number of bedrooms part of me.

53:55To help achieve this the city is looking to streamline the development approvals process

53:59and provide a framework to permit additional density which is where the community planning

54:05permit system can come into place. A community planning permit system is a planning tool that

54:11allows the municipality to facilitate additional heightened density in exchange for what's called

54:20facility services and matters but what you might think of as community benefits such as affordable

54:25housing. In a strategic growth area the tool helps to establish clear yet flexible development rules,

54:34facilitate growth while reducing the likelihood of appeals which in turn supports consistency

54:40in implementation of the vision for the area. It helps speed up development approval timelines

54:47and secure community needs such as affordable housing. Specifically for Stone and Edinburgh area

54:57the plan envisions a compact urban area with vibrant main street affordable housing parks

55:03community spaces and strong transportation connections to support the active transportation

55:09and bus routes aiming for a minimum density of 160 people and jobs per hectare by 2051

55:19and with that I will hand it back to Brenna to go through some of the specific elements of the draft

55:23plan. This is a map that shows the boundaries of the community planning permit bylaw area

55:36as well as the revised boundary of the Stone Road Edinburgh strategic growth area which is why

55:42one of the reasons why we need the Official Plan Amendment. Through the drafting of the Official

55:47Plan Amendment it was determined that a few properties could be redesignated through the

55:52Official Plan Amendment to facilitate and accommodate a broader range of uses particularly

55:57residential. This Official Plan Amendment is attached to the report and is a number of pages.

56:06So just to highlight some of the lands I know I don't have a pointer but that are identified in

56:13the report itself. There are a number of parcels of lands that we have looked at re-designating

56:19through this through this process. So number one the Official Plan Amendment will amend the policies

56:24in the Official Plan to enable the ability to have a development a community planning permit

56:29system. Number two we're looking at changing the boundary of the strategic growth areas identified

56:36in the Official Plan Amendment to include a broader area. Currently it only goes in and around Scottsdale

56:42and we've brought it out to college in the Hanlon and three to the site specific re-designations.

56:49There are a number of institution there are two institutional uses on either side of Torch Lane

56:54that are currently designated for institutional uses and we are looking to consider

57:01amending that designation to permit higher density residential uses on those properties.

57:08There's a facility right now in the Prairie Park Town Home Unit complex that is basically a kind of

57:15a community center. We are looking to re-designate that property to permit some residential higher

57:22density residential uses there as well and there are a number of single detached homes

57:28that front onto College Street that are currently low density residential in the plan

57:34in the current Official Plan and we're looking to re-designate those up to medium density residential.

57:47As Justine said a community planning permit bylaw implements the Official Plan and replaces the

57:54existing zoning bylaw for the area. In Guelph since the Official Plan through OPA 80 and the

58:03Zoning Bylaw Amendment have been recently updated in most cases the community planning permit bylaw

58:09carries forward the existing permissions and uses and setbacks and everything else from that 2023

58:16bylaw. As shown in the figure the area along Stone Road is still mixed use corridor and is aligned

58:24with the City's Official Plan allowing such uses as commercial office retail and medium to high

58:30residential development. The area along Edinburgh and some parcels along Janefield are high density

58:37residential permitting apartment buildings as well as convenience and commercial uses.

58:41The corner of College in Edinburgh is a neighborhood commercial site as per the Official

58:46Plan allowing commercial retail and mixed use residential buildings so a number of these things

58:52aren't changing. There's also parks in open space of course a significant park public park behind

58:58the mall and a small silver of the existing natural heritage system along Edinburgh adjacent to

59:03the University lands that have been carried forward. The remainder of the area is low to medium

59:10density residential permitting a range and height of residential buildings. The feedback received

59:23today and through other engagement activities moving forward will be taken back and reviewed by

59:28staff to be incorporated into the final version of the community planning permit bylaw. Comments

59:34and concerns received and posted with the revised agenda on Friday included such items as providing

59:40adequate bicycle parking infrastructure and public notification of the community planning permit

59:46application. A planning consultant on behalf of a property owner did note some site specific

59:53concerns and we anticipate meeting with the consultant and the property owner to discuss further.

59:59We do request that any additional comments on the draft bylaw and draft Official Plan amendment

1:00:04be submitted to staff no later than January 28th. It is anticipated that the final

1:00:11community planning permit bylaw and Official Plan amendment will be brought to council

1:00:16on April 8th. For any additional comments or questions please feel free to reach out to me.

1:00:23My email is on the screen. Thank you for your time today and we look forward to answering any

1:00:30questions you may have. Great thank you very much to the both of you for your presentation.

1:00:37Just let me confer with the clerk for one moment. I'm just going to choose to do the

1:00:47potential call in for anybody because I know we had no one here signed up but is there anybody in

1:00:53the room that wanted to talk to about this item at all before we move on? No okay but I will put

1:00:59up the number on the screen. It's 519-837-5603 and we'll just leave that up there for three,

1:01:08four minutes or so just to see if anyone wants to call in on this before we turn it back to us

1:01:12to ask questions of staff. Okay thank you. Okay thanks everyone. I'll just call the meeting back

1:04:38to order. We didn't have anybody want to call in on that so it is back to us as a council.

1:04:45As I indicated and as our staff and consultant have indicated it is a motion to receive.

1:04:54May I at least just get that on the floor would that be okay? Councillor Busuttil and Downer

1:04:59will do that part for us. Thank you. So just to confirm this is the moment we've done this before

1:05:06where you're looking for our feedback and it's a takeaway. Okay so let's start. Who's got feedback?

1:05:15I'll start with you Boussatil then Karan. Thank you very much and thank you for the presentation

1:05:21and through the mayor. I'm sure it's my spatial understanding here. I just had a question about

1:05:27it's schedule B the colored map of the area. I'm curious about the two schools that are on

1:05:34the property in that area and the green space that's Park Space so Prairie Park and Rene Goupi.

1:05:43I believe share a park space behind their property and if you I just don't see it in here. I see the

1:05:50yellow that is low density residential. I'm just curious about that if I'm in the wrong place

1:05:55in the wrong street in the wrong area and then I have a follow-up. Through you Mayor Guthrie

1:06:02there is a trail in behind the schools you're correct but I believe it is owned by the school

1:06:07properties and is not a you know a function of the of the city of Guelph's Park system

1:06:12but it is connected there and we can see it and we did hear from the community that they would like

1:06:17that to be enhanced. Thank you and just a clarification because you've then indicated that area as low

1:06:23density residential and so are you suggesting that the school board property is low density

1:06:29residential to be developed? The designation is what is currently in the in the official plan so

1:06:37there's schools typically do have a residential designation on them but their zoning would be

1:06:43institutional. Sorry rather than institutional. Their zoning would be institutional but their

1:06:50designation would be residential. Got it thank you and my second question is earlier in the slide

1:06:54presentation and I know I was asked about this the sorry just lost it the one that shows the what is

1:07:04a CPPS and you've got current approval process and the CPPS process. I'm wondering if in when

1:07:13you do more work on this if there is a third slide that shows about the public process in here if it's

1:07:20impacted if it's not impacted and I know that individuals when they're going through planning

1:07:25processes they don't find out until the very last minute you know what's going on and so on

1:07:30and a little bit concerned just about the Titan time line by the time so from a public engagement

1:07:38for a public information if there should be another slide that is and this is the process and the

1:07:44opportunities for the public to get information to be engaged provide feedback because it's compressed

1:07:51in there. We can certainly take that back just in terms of context upfront engagement

1:08:02when establishing the rules of development is a really important point for public engagement

1:08:07and that is where we're at right now but we can certainly take that back in terms of how to

1:08:11communicate effectively communicate the notification requirements. Thank you just a clarification

1:08:18through the mayor so what you're saying is that the only opportunity is the CPPS policy framework

1:08:24and if I have a residence in the area I'm no longer going to receive a notification saying come out

1:08:29to this meeting or anything like that this is it and the public will only have an opportunity here

1:08:35in this policy framework rather than the on the ground.

1:08:42Through you the mayor so thanks for the follow-up question and to clarify so in terms of the

1:08:49legislative requirements there are no minimum notice requirements within the legislation

1:08:56as it relates to when a community planning permit bylaw is in effect. However the city of Guelph

1:09:05has proposed a number of notice requirements through this bylaw itself that go above and beyond those

1:09:13there's no statutory requirements but the city has gone above and beyond to recommend

1:09:19through the community planning permit bylaw notice requirements which are shown on figure

1:09:26uh I believe it's 1.1 let me just make sure I got the right one here um actually table 1.1

1:09:35which shows the class and the corresponding public notice procedures which we have received some

1:09:42additional feedback on as well. Thank you. Great thank you councillor uh Koran and then Downer.

1:09:51Thank you and thank you for the segue Councillor Bousetil because my feedback

1:09:55was specifically related to table 1.1 um I know that this is just the feedback stage so I'm not

1:10:03making a motion but my feedback is that we for for the class two and class three where it does not

1:10:11exactly conform to the zoning that we've established that we add signage to one of the notice

1:10:18required to the notice requirements I know the city website and is is already on that and that it

1:10:23is above the minimum um but it's not something that people who live in the area would be looking

1:10:29for they wouldn't be going to the city website to see whether or not there's a live application so

1:10:35signage on site and again I don't know if we would specify in the bylaw what that signage looks like

1:10:41I'm not talking about a big zoning amendment sign the big billboards that we put up but some kind

1:10:45of on-site notification that directs people to the city's website. We're looking to break

1:10:53through uh Mayor Guthrie we're looking to bring that back we have done a quick municipal scan to

1:10:58see where other municipalities are in their community planning permit systems and what types

1:11:04of notification and signage go up and it's it's it's sort of variety um and we have heard from

1:11:10members of the public that they would like to see signage on the property so it's something we will

1:11:14consider. Okay great and just for my own clarification um just so that it's on the public record I

1:11:22know that when we zone and we zone for types of residential medium low and high we're not people

1:11:28zoning can you there were some there was some commentary that uh alluded to a certain demographic

1:11:35group in the in the presentation I just want to make sure that we're not people zoning in the work

1:11:40that we're doing today for a certain demographic. No we are not. Thank you Councillor Downer than

1:11:50Guller. Thank you so ditto to the questions around notification I think that I've heard a lot of

1:11:57feedback about that but I was going to ask I know the financial implications are coming with the final

1:12:01report more detail on that but would we be requiring more staff because I'm just assuming that things

1:12:07are going to be moving a bit faster that we're going to need to have the capacity to deal with that.

1:12:11Through the Mayor to Councillor Downer um we don't anticipate a rush on applications okay we think

1:12:20this will be relatively small we already are talking to some developers in the area and have been

1:12:25for a while so we don't believe this will change our our planning process and the um ability for

1:12:30staff to manage the applications that come in over the next 30 years. Okay great so any other

1:12:36thing I would say is like there's um quite a good comprehensive letter from Public Health and I

1:12:42think they've made a lot of very good points um in there that I would like to see taken into

1:12:47consideration I won't highlight which ones they're all generally pretty good thanks.

1:12:54Thank you Guller and then O'Rourke. Thank you through your worship. I wanted a clarification

1:13:08if I could from staff one of the letters mentioned that um four places were not allowed but but I

1:13:13didn't see that in the document so I just wanted to clarify in in this area would a unit with two

1:13:21additional uh with with up to you know like four units in one residential property be allowed?

1:13:30Through you Mayor Guthrie it was really just a timing issue so the uh the notice the appeal

1:13:37period for the four units was still uh still out there prior to the publishing of this uh CPP

1:13:45bylaw so the CPP bylaw will be updated to include the ability to have four units in the in this area.

1:13:53Thank you for that clarification I appreciate that. I also um I just just to second what

1:13:59Councillor Caron said about the the public notices I am interested in seeing those with

1:14:06regards to to the letters that we got many of them talked about bicycle parking spaces.

1:14:13Is this something that you would be looking at to to explore adding those additional larger bicycle

1:14:18parking spaces? Through you Mayor Guthrie it is certainly something we can consider and try and

1:14:25try to address uh currently the uh my understanding is the the parking in general is is still under

1:14:33appeal with the overall comprehensive zoning bylaw so it's it's certainly something that

1:14:40we can talk to GCAT and others about on how to facilitate enhanced bicycle parking and

1:14:45parking infrastructure for the the cargo bikes that they noted. Perfect thank you very much for that

1:14:52and my last question through your worship is about the the two letters that we receive from

1:14:57developers in the in the agenda talking about concerns about whether this would in fact

1:15:05encourage development or not could I just get confirmation from staff you mentioned that you

1:15:09have spoken to some developers so from your perspective are there developers that that do see

1:15:15this as a way to enable more units being being built? Through you the mayor um so we have received

1:15:29a number of a couple letters from developers one was more a home builders builder association one was

1:15:36more representing individual developer interests and as it relates to overall the tool and facilitating

1:15:45growth this is absolutely a tool that we think can streamline development approvals and reduce

1:15:52the efforts on behalf of the development industry. There are a few kind of specific things that were

1:15:58mentioned in both letters would you like me to take that down to a more detailed level and respond to

1:16:05those but maybe maybe not here but maybe when it comes back if we can have a little more information

1:16:10about that to address those concerns I would appreciate it absolutely thank you very much

1:16:16that's it for me your worship thank you councillor O'Rourke thank you mayor Guthrie through you to

1:16:24staff just to piggyback I would actually like to know because that's where I've scrolled down to

1:16:29we're hearing concerns from developers that this adds complexity that they didn't have enough time

1:16:35to go through the the cpp and we're at the stage of consultation so I'm guessing there's time but

1:16:42I'm wondering if you want to respond to the the two letters one from the home builders association

1:16:48and the other from wood development company and and how we're going to work through that because

1:16:52they're the people who are going to build right so how do we make sure that they really believe

1:16:57this will be a streamlined and attractive process thank you for the comment I through you the mayor

1:17:05to start off um Brenda did mention that there will be a number of ongoing one-on-one meetings

1:17:09and so I think um to continue to get to the root of some of the issues and concerns raised um that

1:17:15will be a key step um in terms of some of the the key uh comments around adding complexity

1:17:21um there was a comment around uh a concern around so currently um any development that's 10 units

1:17:27or less is exempt from site plan application and through a community planning permit system

1:17:33there is an ability for the municipality to have development control and take

1:17:40you know letters of credit and and securities for development even if it is 10 units and under

1:17:46so that was one of the things that was raised in terms of concerns um one of the pieces more

1:17:51specifically is around the need for additional studies so as part of the implementation of this

1:17:58new tool um there is an ongoing process to look at um you know this is a change management exercise

1:18:06and there will be a need to update internal processes as well um the official plan does

1:18:13identify complete application requirements and things a municipality may request um the develop

1:18:19the comment was about the need for planning justification reports um I think something

1:18:25that we can take back is um as we look at applicate uh using the tool whether if an

1:18:31application comes in and meets all the requirements under class one do we really need to ask for a

1:18:36planning justification report um or perhaps it can be scoped for those variations in a class two

1:18:43so certainly some of that feedback around how best to implement the tool and make sure that um you

1:18:50know the asks are reasonable um I think there are opportunities for that um there was a second

1:18:56point highlighted around permitted and discretionary uses um and uh to provide context the um current

1:19:04zoning bylaw uh does have a number of instances where um a use um uh does have a condition associated

1:19:12with it and for the purposes of this draft bylaw we wanted to keep things very similar and we carry

1:19:18them all forward um and did identify anything that had a condition um as a discretionary use

1:19:25I think based on the feedback and conversation there there is an opportunity to look back at

1:19:29some of those and say is that extra subjectivity necessary could we in fact make it permitted

1:19:36subject to that same condition um I can provide an example if I'm getting too arbitrary would that

1:19:44be helpful okay um so for example um uh apartment dwelling is is um permitted in your zoning bylaw

1:19:54in a mixed use corridor um it well it's permitted in your um designations in your mixed use corridor

1:20:01and in your current zoning bylaw um we've carried it forward as a de discretionary because um in

1:20:09mixed use corridor it's not permitted on the main floor um we may be able to look back at that and

1:20:16say is that subjectivity necessary or could we in fact say it's permitted just not on the main

1:20:24floor and we don't need to push it to a class two so there might be some opportunities to um kind of

1:20:31as we get into the details of applying this to two sites and having these conversations with

1:20:36specific developments about their interests and their site parameters um to to um uh look at the

1:20:43what is discretionary versus what is permitted and make sure that it is meeting our overall

1:20:48objective of streamlining development approval and clarity okay thanks better for you to square

1:20:56that with them than for me to understand but I am trying to understand and and this has been uh

1:21:00it's been a little bit challenging so through you Mayor Guthrie I'm going to come back to a higher

1:21:04level higher order question um your slide four in the presentation says uh the goal is 35 housing

1:21:11units it only says housing units am I correct to assume we want affordable housing units

1:21:17in this area okay and so why so few of them so 35 were only identified in the housing accelerator

1:21:33fund so that's in the next two years um beyond the two years we expect more but the 35 was uh to the

1:21:40end of 2026 okay that's helpful um and through you Mayor Guthrie I've got a bunch to just sort of

1:21:49download um the feedback yeah so when we did the comprehensive zoning bylaw we had two years like

1:21:57go through and see what was what is can you just give me a high order of what the key differences

1:22:03are between the the community permit plan zone and those changes and the comprehensive zoning

1:22:11bylaw that I thought I had a handle on so what are the big changes um through you the mayor um so we

1:22:21have uh picked so uh there are a few specific subject properties where uh redesignation is proposed

1:22:29and you will find those in your official plan amendment um figure I believe it was two or B

1:22:36let me find that for you you will find those highlighted on figure two of the official plan

1:22:51amendment so those are specific sites where our redesignation is proposed um as relates to the

1:22:58rest of the area um we are implementing um we have picked up your existing zoning standards

1:23:05and put them into a community planning permit bylaw the the fundamental differences here is that

1:23:13in by being able to deal with potential variations through this tool there's an ability for you to

1:23:20say um uh what might be a staff variation so um if you have a front yard setback you can say

1:23:28whether you're going to allow some staff variation in certain circumstances or parameters um so uh

1:23:35on table um 6.1 you'll find permitted and discretionary uses um discretionary use

1:23:50is a term um that is not from your current zoning bylaw that is getting picked up because of that

1:23:55ability to provide flexibility and and um through this tool um on table 6.2 the development standards

1:24:06are um very much exactly as they exist in your current zoning bylaw um the class two staff variation

1:24:13threshold that limit that um is unique to this tool and is um something that you would want to

1:24:19look at and uh and make sure you understand and then the last very important item is the ability to

1:24:26do facility services and matters in exchange for height and density and that you'll find on

1:24:32table 1.2 where we're looking at um uh where some additional height and density could potentially be

1:24:40um uh provided for in exchange for affordable housing units and that is something that you

1:24:45can't do under current zoning bylaw um Brenna was there any other key highlights you can think

1:24:56about facility services and matters a little bit like the old density bonusing yeah so uh or

1:25:02inclusionary zoning in some regards a little bit because uh what we're looking at and uh

1:25:09are working through right now is um a financial analysis we just recently uh initiated that work

1:25:17with with Watson uh associates and and Dillon to determine you know what percentage of those of

1:25:25those residential units that are being proposed that are new would have to be affordable housing

1:25:29units in order to reach that 35 uh units unit goal for instance so uh under the old density

1:25:37bonusing or section 37 of the planning act it was um and Mr. Ormiss developer if you want to have

1:25:44extra extra height you have to provide uh could be affordable housing units could be public art

1:25:51it could be any number of things this is uh facility services and matters relate specifically to

1:25:55height and density so it's a proportional relationship or an exchange for that extra height

1:26:00to get the units or alternatively what we're looking at is is cash and lieu of those affordable

1:26:05housing units that could go into the affordable housing reserve and and look at other lands

1:26:12so through you merga three that's my next question to staff uh is Watson looking at that

1:26:17cash and lieu policy how do we assure ensure it's a robust enough amount uh because we hadn't updated

1:26:24the parkland dedication for 30 years and and we're short in terms of what it costs so

1:26:30what does that cash and lieu policy look like and how do we make sure we have enough

1:26:38through you the mayor uh we have Watson and associates doing some financial analysis currently

1:26:45to explore our development proformas of a couple subject sites um and scenarios within this area

1:26:51and um part of that analysis is to provide guidance and direction on a cash and lieu level that would

1:26:57be appropriate for this area and as soon as that's available we'll be putting it on um the

1:27:02miss pally's website um and and sharing that okay um thank you my next question may i go through

1:27:11through you to staff is the uh plan refers to 601 scott's dale they have an approved development

1:27:18application so does this speed up their process do they look at a new process how does that work

1:27:22when this proposal applies to a property that's currently under development

1:27:30so i believe that may be the only active application we have we do have some that are already along

1:27:36jane field they're in the building permit stage but they already have gone through the zoning

1:27:39process 601 scott's dale's gone through the zoning process and they're in for site plan so i i think

1:27:45they'll be ahead of this process okay terrific um and just a question around um

1:27:53um page 170 line 2 says dwelling units are not permitted in the basement or the first story

1:28:00of a building a lobby amenity space and residential components of live work units are permitted so i'm

1:28:05just wondering why that is my in-laws live in a lovely building in toronto there's a concierge

1:28:11desk there's the you know elevator bank and then there's apartments on that first floor so i'm

1:28:17wondering why we wouldn't allow apartments on the first floor or the basement especially at the

1:28:21grade allowed it so thank you through you the mayor um that is directly carried over from

1:28:29your current zoning bylaw in terms of a requirement force lands within certain areas to facilitate

1:28:37more activated first floor uses such as retail and other non-residential uses and to maintain

1:28:46the commercial function in the long term so i'm given that number of these sites that are

1:28:51muc are entirely commercial today the desire would be to maintain a commercial function

1:28:58for the associated neighborhood and area as well as the residents within that mixed use building

1:29:05in the long term okay thanks and the america if i can just flag a couple other observations

1:29:12i'm going to see clarity separately around uh parking requirements for additional residential

1:29:18dwelling units how the the first one the third one the fourth one work um page 34 of our package

1:29:28it says section 1.4.1 says repeal of existing bylaws within cpp area so i don't know if it should

1:29:34say planning bylaws or all bylaws you may want to take a look at that um i have a concern

1:29:41we'll shock no one about parking uh 5.5 section c says apartment buildings mixed use dwellings

1:29:48with less than 20 dwelling units are not required to provide visitor parking spaces

1:29:53i and that works if it's in a mixed use and there is other spaces where they can be but

1:29:58i have a concern if you have a you know 16 units and zero visitor parking it says in multi-unit

1:30:06buildings with four dwelling units or less if no legal off-street parking space can be provided

1:30:11for the existing dwelling dwelling unit then no parking spaces are required so i understand that

1:30:18in a historic downtown context where there is no parking i'm not sure i understand it in

1:30:25this part of the city where if you're redeveloping a site uh for residential you should be able to

1:30:31provide some on some off-street parking so i i just um a concern about mine has always been to

1:30:38provide enough parking um i don't like maximum widths on garages anywhere in the city i think

1:30:45they should build what uh what is needed and oh last one is a real question it says within the HDR12

1:30:55precinct this is for apartment buildings the definition of a lodging house as defined by

1:31:00this bylaw does not apply and i'm just curious why that is it's a carryover too from from the

1:31:12existing zoning bylaw okay i just didn't understand it the first time around i guess and maric gots

1:31:17from my last question is uh was there a question you expected us to ask that we have not asked

1:31:23and if so what is that question through the mayor thank you for that already long list of questions

1:31:40all right last here i have is councillor Caton please thank you through you mr mayor to staff

1:31:50so this is just a comment i know this is not the biggest part of this um but i was going through uh

1:31:56on i think it's page 85 and then a couple under that in figures 4.7.5 and beyond um i just this is

1:32:08a request to add in some ramps in some of these pictures and i know that we can't enforce them

1:32:14but i think that the more that developers see them in the documents it kind of makes them feel

1:32:19more possible so that we end up getting more accessible options in these medium density areas

1:32:26thanks great thank you okay before we call the vote um i will just quickly ask my questions then

1:32:40um i just want to say i think it's really important that the performers and the financial analysis

1:32:46is getting done you have no idea how many times i hear it doesn't pencil and so you can say well

1:32:54here's the height we think we should have on this land but if it doesn't pencil you're never going

1:32:59to get anything so the financial analysis has to be done to actually start to trigger thoughts of

1:33:08actually oh i can actually now move forward with this because it's starting to pencil so that those

1:33:13types of um that type of information will be very important um you gave a really good example that

1:33:20i was going to bring up about the site plan issue with 10 units or less but how it could be implemented

1:33:27if we had it under this regime i just want to stay as a blanket statement anything anything at all

1:33:35in my view that hinders or adds new regulations is a non-starter for me so if we should not be adding

1:33:45anything to this to these areas that is going to become a hind a hinder or a hurdle where under

1:33:53another regime just on the other side of the road it wouldn't apply so let's try to really think about

1:34:00about about that if we can um the last question i had is when are these types of bylaws reviewed

1:34:09is it a trigger like every five years or or i just don't know if there's something like that i

1:34:17wouldn't mind an answer i'm um well not through you directly to you um fantastic question so um it

1:34:25would be typical that um uh you would want to review it every five years at least um however

1:34:32in talking to and working with other municipalities that have used this tool um because it is a new

1:34:38tool for a municipality um it's not um it is likely that you might have some uh kind of staff um

1:34:46you know minor technical uh adjustments within the first year or two of things that you know need

1:34:52to be tweaked a little bit in terms of implementation um but one thing that um is helpful from uh policy

1:34:59stability perspective is that um there isn't a um there's no ability for a proponent driven

1:35:07amendment to the community planning permit bylaw within the first five years unless there's a

1:35:13council resolution to do so so maybe you could just staff could bring back some flavor on that like

1:35:22do we treat it as a living document that can have some delegated authority on the administrative

1:35:27technical side for updates but also is there flexibility early on if we're seeing that there's

1:35:34a problem that you know staff could bring something to council to say like hey we we need to we need

1:35:41to amend this to make this easier whatever that thing is so um it might be need to have like a hard

1:35:47a hard fast rule that hey every five years we're for sure going to review this in its entirety

1:35:51but also treat it that it's new enough and new with other municipalities that we can also

1:35:57trigger some changes if if we're finding that we need to do that um I will say in some of the

1:36:01research I've done with other communities that have done this some of them have had charts where

1:36:06they've kind of laid out the all the benefits of what what's happened and then the next column

1:36:12over is like oh some of the some of the growing pains like they're they're very transparent about

1:36:16some of the stuff that hasn't exactly worked out or whatever so um if you can even I can try to

1:36:21find that too I think it might have been Peterborough or Waterloo I think it might have been Waterloo

1:36:25I can't remember um that that kind of information might even be good to to put in the final thing

1:36:31just to show where some of the best practices are in some of these other communities that are a little

1:36:35bit ahead of us and then the final question I had was just on I don't mind the what Councillor

1:36:40Caron was saying and even Councillor Boussatill was saying around like engagement with the community

1:36:45or whatever um signage things like that just from an information point of view but but I guess my

1:36:50question is and then what so let's say there's a sign that goes up that says and I know there's the

1:36:56three sort of categories right like level one level two level three so let's say there's a level one

1:37:02or you know category and there's a sign that goes up and then the community drives by walks by

1:37:07bikes by and sees the the thing and then then what like is it it's just for information right it's

1:37:14not for them to be like I object because the whole point of this whole regime the whole point of all

1:37:22this regulation is to actually make things upfront knowing to applicants of exactly where they have

1:37:28to meet and if they meet it they can put a shovel on the ground they can just keep they can keep

1:37:32going so I just want to make sure that you know yes I don't have zero problem with informing people

1:37:38and making sure that people are in the know that's not a problem but it shouldn't also trigger

1:37:44like all of a sudden tactics to delay so am I right in how I'm describing that um yeah so there's

1:37:52no third party appeals for any application that fits within the the bylaw only like if it needs

1:37:59a bylaw a mentor then in an open process again in a class three where something would come to

1:38:06council it would be typical that you would you could take delegations and feedback from members

1:38:12of the public yeah no issue with that level three yeah yeah okay those are there my my only points

1:38:20please just look well you know please just look at it through a lens of this is supposed to make

1:38:24things easier faster very upfront transparent everyone knows the rules of engagement as I would

1:38:32call it um so you know take to heart some of the the feedback that you got I would also just publicly

1:38:39say they're not in the room but maybe they'll listen to this later on um that for those that have

1:38:43been writing in you know I would suggest like this is your moment between now and April much before

1:38:49April to please engage with our planning staff and our consultant and others around some of the

1:38:54issues you might have um I but I think uh I think that there's a reason why this is an available tool

1:39:02there's a reason it's to make things easier so let's please make sure that we that is the end

1:39:07result is a policy that makes things easier um okay with that I'll call the vote is anyone against

1:39:15staff and us receiving this information nobody okay that's great thank you very much for the

1:39:21presentation and the work you're doing that's great um with that we're going to take a break

1:39:28for exactly 55 minutes so um we have one extra item and then that's it it's the 115 Watson Parkway

1:39:37north proposed uh zba file uh as everyone knows that's uh a very important site for

1:39:46counselor Gibson and uh kate so they will certainly be back here for six o'clock

1:39:52for for this one and I hope to see everyone else back here for that one too so we'll take a break

1:39:56and we'll start that item in 55 minutes all right good evening everybody just if I could ask

2:34:29my fellow colleagues online just to put your camera on for everyone just so I can see who's

2:34:34with us that would be great but I am calling the meeting to order thank you everybody um we are

2:34:41back here for the planned meeting and this is the the last item on the agenda it is 6.2 public

2:34:49meeting report for 115 Watson Parkway north it's the proposed zoning uh and other amendments

2:34:56in ward one we're going to have a presentation from our own staff and then we have uh I'll get to

2:35:02kind of describing some of the delegations uh afterwards but Lindsay come on up and uh

2:35:09you can kind of give us a lay of the land there no pun intended on this application uh before us

2:35:17something that uh I think a lot of people in the city have been waiting for something

2:35:21for a long time before so I'll turn it over to you good evening mayor Guthrie members of council

2:35:28staff and members of the public my name is Lindsay Sula Tickey and I'm a senior development planner

2:35:32with the city and I will be presenting this statutory public meeting report tonight so tonight

2:35:42is the statutory public meeting for 115 Watson Parkway north it is with regards to a proposed

2:35:47zoning bylaw amendment and this is um just the statutory public meeting so there's going to

2:35:52be no decisions on the application tonight so an application for a zoning bylaw amendment

2:36:00was received for the subject lands from Zelenko Priamo Limited on behalf of the owner Gwelf Watson

2:36:06Holdings Inc to permit the development of four mixed use buildings with 928 dwelling units

2:36:12ranging in height from 9 to 14 stories and 2818 square meters of ag grade commercial space

2:36:1931 on street townhouse units 170 back-to-back townhouse units for a total of 1129 dwelling

2:36:26units in total a neighborhood park and conservation of the natural heritage system the subject lands

2:36:37are located at the intersection of starwood drive and Watson Parkway the subject lands are

2:36:42approximately 6.44 hectares in size with approximately 324 meters of frontage along Watson Parkway

2:36:49north the subject lands are currently vacant with limited vegetation the applicant is proposing

2:37:06a mixed use residential and commercial development comprised of four mixed use buildings with 928

2:37:12dwelling units ranging in height from 9 to 14 stories and 2818 square meters of ag grade commercial

2:37:18space 31 on street townhouse units 170 back-to-back townhouse units for 1129 dwelling units in total

2:37:28a neighborhood park and conservation of natural heritage system lands

2:37:34the internal road network is proposed to be privately owned and maintained and starwood

2:37:38drive is proposed to be extended at the intersection with Watson Parkway north to create the main

2:37:42access to the subject lands which is proposed to be flanked by the mixed use buildings creating

2:37:47a gateway feature into the development additional accesses are proposed along Watson Parkway north

2:37:52and went from Watson Road north adjacent to the proposed park a combination of underground surface

2:37:57and structured parking levels are proposed for the residential visitor and commercial

2:38:02parking needs of the mixed use building so i'm just putting up the proposed conceptual site plan

2:38:12which shows the mixed use buildings and the layout of the park and the main access into the site

2:38:19i'm not going to get into too much detail about this because i know the applicant's going to

2:38:23speak to it a little bit in more detail than me the subject lands are predominantly designated

2:38:38as commercial mixed use center with a small portion to the south and east being designated

2:38:43as significant natural areas and natural areas in the official plan the commercial mixed use

2:38:47center land use designation is intended to develop over time into distinct areas with

2:38:52centralized public spaces that provide a range of uses including retail and office uses

2:38:57live work opportunities and medium to high density residential uses permissible uses within

2:39:02this designation include medium and high density multiple unit residential buildings

2:39:06institutional uses commercial uses community uses retail and service uses the subject lands

2:39:13are also located within a strategic growth area as shown in the official plan schedule

2:39:171a urban structure strategic growth areas are classified for community mixed use nodes or

2:39:22intensification corridors and are envisioned to provide higher density to development lands

2:39:27designated as commercial mixed use center within a strategic growth area are permitted to have a

2:39:31maximum net density of 250 units per hectare for freestanding residential and residential mixed

2:39:37use buildings and a maximum building height of 14 stories is permitted the significant natural

2:39:43areas and natural areas land use designation does not permit development within a war in its

2:39:48minimum or established buffers development is not proposed within this land use designation

2:39:53and the applicant has submitted an environmental impact study to demonstrate no negative impact

2:39:57for the proposed development within the adjacent commercial mixed use center land use designation

2:40:06the majority of the subject lands are currently zoned a site specific commercial mixed use center

2:40:10with a parking adjustment and holding provisions a small portion of zone natural heritage system

2:40:21the purpose of the purple was zoning bylaw amendment is to establish site specific zoning

2:40:25regulations through a site specific commercial mixed use center with the parking adjustment zone

2:40:30implement the boundary of the natural heritage system adjust the flood plain overlay and zone

2:40:35the public park as a neighborhood park zone so site specific regulations to the commercial

2:40:46mixed use center zone requested by the applicant include regulations that would apply to the

2:40:52whole of the lands regulations that would apply for just the mixed use buildings and

2:40:56regulations for the on street townhouses and regulations for back to back townhouses

2:41:02so I'm just going to highlight a few of these site specific regulations that are listed up on the

2:41:13screen the full list is included in the staff report but I'm not going to go through the full list

2:41:20and I believe the applicant will also be touching on a few of them

2:41:26so site specific regulations requested for the whole of the lands include to permit the

2:41:32regulations of the commercial mixed use center zone to apply to the whole of the lands despite

2:41:38any future severance or condo registration this is often referred to as the severability

2:41:42provision that we put in a lot of larger sites to allow for residential density of 250 units per

2:41:50hectare so the current zoning permits a maximum residential density of 150 units per hectare

2:41:56however as I noted previously strategic growth areas do allow up to 250 units per hectare

2:42:05and to allow for a minimum commercial gross floor area of 2818 square meters

2:42:10where section 7.3.2 requires a minimum commercial gross floor area of 0.15 floor space index

2:42:19and as part of the complete application the applicant has submitted a commercial function

2:42:23study that was actually done as part of a pre-submission and we have a third party

2:42:28peer reviewer who reviewed the commercial space being proposed

2:42:34site specific regulations requested for the mixed use buildings include

2:42:39to allow for a building height of 14 stories and the current zoning allows 10 stories but as I

2:42:45mentioned previously since this is within a street strategic growth area the official plan

2:42:50does allow up to 14 stories in this land use designation and site specific regulations requested

2:42:57for the on-street and back-to-back townhouses include but are not limited to to permit a

2:43:02minimum dwelling unit width of 5.9 meters for the back-to-back units whereas the zoning bylaw

2:43:07requires a minimum unit width of seven meters to permit a minimum dwelling unit width of 5.4 meters

2:43:13for the on-street townhouse units whereas the zoning bylaw requires six meters and to allow for the

2:43:19maximum lock coverage of 70 percent for back-to-back townhouses whereas the zoning bylaw permits lock

2:43:25coverage of 40 percent and as I said there are some additional regulations that are outlined

2:43:33in the staff report so the next steps on the application would be to receive public and

2:43:40council input tonight at the statutory public meeting and do a full review of the application

2:43:45including all of the supporting documents we will be bringing forward a recommendation of staff

2:43:50once all the issues have been reviewed and with with a full recommendation to council on the

2:43:57application so if there's anyone in the audience here or watching from home who want to be stay

2:44:04informed and be notified of any future revisions or decisions you can email planning at gulf.ca

2:44:12provide your full name and contact information so that concludes my presentation I'd be happy

2:44:17to answer any questions great thanks Lindsay thank you very much for your presentation what we'll

2:44:24do is we'll just head head through to our our delegations and and then we'll see if anyone

2:44:30wants to call in about it as well and then we'll get back to us if there's any follow-up with you

2:44:36in just speaking with the list of delegates just before the meeting started I was told that even

2:44:41though we have about six people listed actually there's only going to be one person that's going

2:44:47to come down and actually do the delegation and then everyone is back up and they're all from the

2:44:52applicant side of things so just in case there's any questions from council on a specific item or

2:44:57specific issue they have brought their whole team here to be engaged with us tonight to be able to

2:45:04help facilitate any answers that might need to come okay so I'm so sorry is it Jonathan is

2:45:10is it you that's going to be the one yeah okay thank you Jonathan Roger is going to come down now

2:45:18you have 10 up to 10 minutes to see you know you will hear a chime in the room here at the nine

2:45:24minute and 30 second mark which is your 30 second warning that you only have 30 seconds left and then

2:45:31don't get mad but the the mic goes off at 10 minutes all right so don't get there so it just

2:45:38then after that just hang out just in case there is any follow-up questions from any of my colleagues

2:45:42okay and then for you that have come as well from the applicant side you can be ready as well

2:45:49so with that I'll turn it over to you and you have up to 10 minutes go right ahead

2:45:52just to be sure the the triangle here is to forward the presentation wonderful thank you so

2:45:57much so Jonathan Roger from Zalinka Priamo Limited in the city of Toronto we represent the owner

2:46:03Guelph Watson Holdings Inc. I'm joined by Joe Vallele and David Coliano from Guelph Watson Holdings

2:46:10Inc. while the consultant engineering consultant Jeff Lurch from MTE and the consultants from

2:46:15the architectural side Anita Yu and Ali Afriyazibe of Turner Fleischer Architects are attending

2:46:21through Webex. On behalf of the owner Zalinka Priamo submitted a zoning bylaw amendment application

2:46:27for lands known municipally at 115 Watson Parkway North to permit a mixed use development with housing

2:46:34commercial space and a park and building upon the staff presentation we have a brief presentation

2:46:40for you this evening and our presentation will cover the existing conditions the planning context

2:46:47the development proposal the required planning approvals community benefits supporting studies

2:46:52and reports and a timeline the lands of approximately 6.44 hectares are vacant with frontage on both

2:47:02Watson Parkway North and Watson Road North. The southerly boundary of the lands is adjacent to the

2:47:07Clithe Creek stream and natural heritage system as well as existing stormwater management pond

2:47:13the neighborhood is largely characterized by low density residential development along with

2:47:17support of local commercial and public services including the east side library directly abutting

2:47:23the lands to the north is an existing seven-story residential apartment building an 11-story

2:47:29mixed use residential development was recently completed at the southwest corner of starwood

2:47:33in Watson the lands south of York Road are comprised of commercial and industrial uses

2:47:40here we see a view south from starwood drive will where the adjacent seven-story

2:47:45residential apartment building can be seen and just building upon what Lindsay had mentioned

2:47:52previously the lands are located within a strategic growth area and a predominantly designated

2:47:57commercial mixed use center with small areas designated significant natural areas and natural

2:48:03areas the commercial mixed use center designation permits a range of commercial and residential

2:48:07uses and forms including medium and high density residential multi residential buildings and according

2:48:14to the growth strategic growth area policies the lands are permitted to develop up to a maximum

2:48:19density of 250 units per hectare and buildings up to 14 stories the lands are his own site specific

2:48:29commercial mixed use center with the parking adjustment and holding provisions as well as

2:48:33natural heritage system under zoning by a lot 2023 to 20790 which is under site specific appeal by

2:48:41the owner a portion of the land's along Watson Road north is shown within a flood plain overlay

2:48:50the proposed mixed use development is comprised of approximately 1129 dwelling units inclusive of

2:48:56a range of housing types approximately 2818 square meters of commercial gross floor area is proposed

2:49:04at grade fronting along Watson Parkway north four residential buildings ranging in height from nine

2:49:11to 14 stories are proposed atop two building podiums fronting directly along Watson Parkway north

2:49:19internal to the site approximately 31 on street townhouses and 170 back to back townhouse dwellings

2:49:28are proposed approximately one hectare of lands is proposed to be conveyed to the city comprised of

2:49:34about 0.7 hectares for the public park and 0.3 3 hectares for conservation purposes starwood drive

2:49:45is proposed to be extended at the intersection of from with Watson Parkway north to create the main

2:49:51access two additional accesses are proposed along Watson Parkway north including a loading only access

2:49:58one access from Watson Road north is proposed adjacent to the park the internal road network

2:50:04is proposed to be privately owned and maintained a combination of underground surface and mezzanine

2:50:10parking levels are proposed each back to back an on street townhouse is provided with a minimum

2:50:17one driveway parking space and one garage parking space an indoor and outdoor bicycle

2:50:21parking are provided or proposed for all uses in addition to the outdoor amenity spaces in public

2:50:27park a new connection to the municipal trail network along the perimeter of the park and natural

2:50:33heritage system is proposed and some conceptual renderings were prepared here we can see a view

2:50:40from Watson Parkway north towards buildings a towards buildings a and b including the proposed

2:50:45commercial space along the ground floor here we can see a view from starwood drive between

2:50:52buildings b and c a gateway into the proposed development along the central private road

2:50:58aligned with the extension of starwood here we can see a view from starwood between buildings b and

2:51:06c oh sorry here we can see a view from Watson Parkway north towards building c and d including

2:51:12the proposed commercial space again on the ground floor here we have a view of buildings c and d

2:51:20where the two-story deck parking can be seen here we can see a view of the proposed back to

2:51:29back townhomes located along a private road the proposed zoning bylaw amendment seeks to modify

2:51:40the provisions of the cmuc 9 pa zone as adopted by council on April 18th 2023 which is under appeal

2:51:47as it pertains to the lands the zoning bylaw amendment would expand the range of permitted

2:51:52housing forms determine appropriate specific regulations implement the boundary of the natural

2:51:58heritage system zone the public park as neighborhood park refine the floodplain overlay and remove the

2:52:03holding provisions there are the requested site specific regulations for the entirety of the

2:52:08lands the mixed-use buildings as well as the on-street townhomes and back-to-back townhouses

2:52:12that were previously outlined by staff and detailed in the staff report as well as the materials that

2:52:17were submitted in support of the application the site specific regulations are to be confirmed

2:52:22and refined through the review of the application by staff the proposed development results in a

2:52:30range of community benefits for example there is the proposed park of approximately 0.7 hectares

2:52:36which will be supplemented with cash and lieu of parkland approximately 0.3 hectares of natural

2:52:41heritage system lands will be conveyed to the city a preliminary trail design has been provided

2:52:46for connection from Watson road north to Watson parkway north with direct access to the proposed

2:52:52park commercial space is proposed which would accommodate use as permitted under the CMUC zone

2:52:58which could include a grocery store daycare drugstore etc the proposed development will lead to the

2:53:05signalization of the existing intersection at starwood drive in Watson parkway north the zoning

2:53:13bylaw amendment application is supported by materials prepared by the consulting team which is

2:53:19currently under review by city staff and the agencies following the pre-consultation meeting

2:53:28in may 2022 and the acquisition of the lands in september 2022 a neighborhood meeting was held

2:53:35in june 2023 to introduce the project and receive public feedback a pre-submission was made in

2:53:43november 2023 followed by a formal application in october 2024 and the owner anticipates the

2:53:49submission of a site plan approval at the earliest opportunity this year in our submission the

2:53:57lands are well suited for the proposed mixed use development and the proposed zoning bylaw amendment

2:54:02is consistent and conforms to the applicable provincial and municipal land use planning

2:54:07policies and represents good plant land use planning and we're certainly available to answer

2:54:12any questions and thank you very much great and thank you very much for your presentation on

2:54:20behalf of the applicant we appreciate you being here okay maybe just stay there just in case there

2:54:27is any questions and okay uh doesn't surprise me uh counselor uh Gibson I saw your hand go up why

2:54:35don't I go I stick with ward one I go Gibson then katin and then uh uh coran and uh orork

2:54:43okay and then if any anyone on the screen that's here on behalf of the applicant or anyone in the

2:54:48room feels like you need to also uh have a chance to answer something if you need to

2:54:53feel free to come up and and join your colleague here counselor Gibson over to you thank you and

2:54:58through you mr mayor thank you very much for the presentation I uh I'll just be there first

2:55:04to have child care conflict but um that's what makes virtual so so great um series of questions for

2:55:13you uh just from the production control can you expand on justification for studies completed today

2:55:28counselor Gibson we're really sorry but your connection is is not working um well you're

2:55:35cutting up as you try to explain your question there can you try one more time for us just get

2:55:43right to the question so that we can maybe hopefully hear it so I'll turn it over to you

2:55:51yeah just yeah sure give that a try uh the the reduction in the

2:56:01studies can you just expand on that a little bit I think he asked can you expand on the commercial

2:56:10um study and the reduction in the commercial like square footage allotment I believe that's

2:56:19what he asked oh I see a thumbs up okay I did that justice who would like to answer that you

2:56:25certainly I can answer that so that the amount of commercial from the when that we came forward

2:56:29at the neighborhood meeting is more than doubled about doubled um and the commercial that we

2:56:33submitted a commercial function study uh and that was peer reviewed by the by the city's peer

2:56:38reviewer uh the amount of commercial in the node would exceed the minimum threshold for the area

2:56:44for the center so in terms of the the component that would be provided by this project it's it

2:56:49exceeds the the target that's in the official plan um so there's no there's no reduction proposed

2:56:56it's the proposal itself would exceed the the minimum for the for the threshold for the center

2:57:02okay thank you councillor kibson did you want to try anything else or

2:57:09yes thank you I'm back does that sound a little bit better yes it does yeah I joined on my other

2:57:15other uh device um so thanks for that I appreciate because that was a question that came um through

2:57:21the public consultation that you held last year so I do I do appreciate you walking us through

2:57:25that justification um the second question I have is probably one that others will have too it's the

2:57:30idea of the um slight parking reductions that you've asked for I'm just wondering if you could help me

2:57:37understand how the commercial residential parking allotments that you provided again help complement

2:57:43each other and how um the justification for the slight reduction in parking just to be clear that

2:57:53for the town house units there's actually a surplus of parking so we're just speaking as to the

2:57:57the mixed use buildings proper um in terms of the we submitted a parking study as part of the

2:58:02transportation impact study that was supported that was submitted with the application it's

2:58:06currently under review by city staff in terms of the the slight reduction in the parking requirement

2:58:11um there are there are some synergies between the commercial and the mixed use or the residential

2:58:16units in terms of the time of day that those would be used but there's also the transportation

2:58:20demand management that's been identified uh that the building and the sites the sites and the

2:58:26buildings are located with on three bus routes um there's there'll be a a significant amount of

2:58:31bicycle parking proposed as well so from the point of view of of of justifying the slight

2:58:36reduction in the rate that certainly we've outlined that in the material submitted with the application

2:58:40and we'll look forward to having some comments back from staff about that and working through

2:58:43that that we're working them through during the process right thank you and and for the record I

2:58:48do agree with your word some of your justifications especially on the on the commercial residents

2:58:53because they will complement each other as as um as people leave the commercial units the residential

2:58:59maybe since bill over happens we know that that's possible um on the on the picture of your stacked

2:59:05townhomes at the back or so your back to back townhomes on the back side of the property on

2:59:09the outside of the property in the images you shown um there's not a lot of front lot space

2:59:15and I'm just wondering is this the noted private road that is going in and and how do we I'm just

2:59:21looking at snow storage and snow removal for the area have you started to think about where that

2:59:25would go um for the for the townhouse units and certainly that in terms of snow removal that's

2:59:33something that would be dealt with during site plan approval but the architects have thought

2:59:36that through with snow locations all located on site and once again that's those materials where

2:59:41we're showing that are under review by staff and so we'll keep working with staff on that to make

2:59:45sure that everything's satisfactory from a from a snow removal process point of view great thank

2:59:50you just a few more the the the parking the residential parking one garage one driveway

2:59:56spot that's pretty standard I get that and I appreciate that we have a slightly relaxed bylaw

3:00:02in our city now that allows residents to slightly expand the driveway to allow for some more space

3:00:07maybe a walkway down the side maybe a comment back or question back when you're designing those

3:00:13those garages this is a heavily a heavily suburban area a lot of two car families

3:00:20a lot of commuters so just the idea of potentially creating garage space that is

3:00:25adequate for a family size vehicle just just as a common as a takeaway if you haven't finalized

3:00:30your architecture of all your designs think mini van syndrome in garages that's all I can say

3:00:36for the east end of the city it's um it's it's what we're doing out here so I appreciate that

3:00:43my last question and I don't mean to pry thank you so much for the engagement that you've already

3:00:47had with the community on this and more importantly thanks for listening to the community's comments

3:00:51about the commercial space are you willing to divulge or talk more about the the commercial

3:00:56interest on the site I mean I drive by the site every day and see that you're you're

3:01:01promoting it for a grocery retail can we discuss or is there potential for discussing any of the

3:01:07potential tenants that are coming I'll turn that over to Joe if that's okay sure good evening

3:01:12hi my name is Joe Valola I'm the owner of the company um yes there you know since the community

3:01:19meeting there's been a lot of interest we've hired a local broker and we certainly have interest

3:01:26especially grocers but we can't do much unless we get an approval so it's critical to get the zoning

3:01:33approval they're waiting for that and so we can move forward to the next stages so yes there is a lot

3:01:39of interest and we'd like to get started on that as soon as we can thank you great thanks so much

3:01:46mr. Valola I'll save my comments for the end but those are my questions mr. mayor thank you

3:01:51okay thank you uh councillor kate and over to you thank you through you mr. mayor um so I'm I'm

3:01:58also glad to hear about the commercial it's one of the most talked about questions I get from residents

3:02:04in the area they also asked me a lot about the traffic so I'm wondering if you could talk about

3:02:10plans for the intersection in terms of the intersection there was a conceptual design that

3:02:18was proposed were prepared for the the zoning but by law amendment application then again that's under

3:02:22review by staff there was a traffic impact study that was prepared with the justification for the

3:02:28intersection and for all the intersections on that are proposed on site once again that's under

3:02:33review by staff so certainly staff have what they need in terms of that for that review

3:02:38and does that answer your questions sufficiently or do you want me to speak a little bit further

3:02:43um so basically the the answers are forthcoming once staff reviews the the plan

3:02:50essentially yes I mean we've made a proposal we've have a conceptual design

3:02:53and then we'll look for staff's input into that and then we'll address any comments

3:02:57great and uh similarly I saw that your design had quite a lot of trees especially in the

3:03:05the areas with the townhouses do you have a number of trees that you're going to be planting that

3:03:11you know of right now or is that something that is also going to be found out in the future

3:03:17in terms of the trees that we submitted a master concept landscape plan

3:03:21that provides an overall look and certainly the the details of trees and those kinds of

3:03:26matters are dealt with at site plan approval but certainly in terms of in terms of the the

3:03:30master concept plan and the urban design brief that we're prepared that's what we're showing in

3:03:34terms of in terms of the trees that are proposed but certainly that's that's that that represents

3:03:39the intention great and uh through the mayor just final question and I we've talked a lot about in

3:03:46the past as we've kind of gone through this process about different accessibility features

3:03:51that you're putting in I was wondering if you could outline some of those in terms of accessibility

3:04:02if it's you're speaking as to parking the minimum parking would be required

3:04:07underneath the the zoning bylaw would be would be would be achieved in terms of the accessible

3:04:12accessibility in terms of the units I believe it's 15 percent of the units have to meet

3:04:17underneath the OBC have to meet accessibility requirements so that would be the that would

3:04:20be the threshold as well and again at this point in terms of some of those details those would be

3:04:26at site plan approval I know I'm saying that a lot but that this is the zoning stage and certainly

3:04:30that's the time when those details are really really thought through and work through with staff

3:04:33as well through their detailed review great thank you very much thank you counselors going over to

3:04:42Koran and then O'Rourke great thank you the park that's shown I think in the southern east

3:04:49eastern portion um that would be accessible to say the high density development across

3:04:56starwood that's already built that would that park is open to anybody is that correct yes

3:05:02it's the intention is for a public park and that would be dedicated to the city through the process

3:05:07so that park would be for the for the for the for the public anyone from the public can come and

3:05:12visit the park it's not just for the for the development proper so feeding into that park and

3:05:18for those who live across the street and live in the high density buildings that front onto

3:05:23to Watson and starwood they would have to walk through the complex which is privately owned in

3:05:27order to be able to access that park is that correct for the most part I mean I know there's

3:05:31some trail linkages but anyone who lives there anyone who lives across the street who crosses in

3:05:37and goes through the the high rises has to walk through the private development to be able to

3:05:42access the park with is and so really what I the reason I'm asking that question is is about

3:05:47accessibility in terms of sidewalks and and road safety because a lot of that development is going

3:05:53to have cars going in and out it goes through a parking lot and I didn't see on the renderings

3:05:58really what the pedestrian work looks like for people to be able to walk through the complex

3:06:03both those who live there and those who are coming from outside in order to be able to access the

3:06:08park our sidewalks integrated through all of the townhouses and back-to-back towns

3:06:18in terms of in terms of sidewalks there is an urban design brief that was prepared

3:06:22to support the application and if you review that it's with the materials there is a pedestrian

3:06:26plan that's shown there with all the pedestrian connections but certainly the permeability

3:06:31for pedestrians is a component of the design in terms of municipal sidewalks certainly

3:06:37the park itself isn't that far from those from the new buildings that have just been constructed

3:06:41there the park would be accessible through the through the municipal sidewalks as well

3:06:46so certainly the there's pedestrian connections that would be prepared and proposed

3:06:51and those again those details would be determined as we move along but that certainly is the

3:06:55attention to have make sure that there's a linkages through the site and again there is also that

3:07:00the trail connection that that would be facilitated as well which helps increase the permeability

3:07:05in that neighborhood as well. Okay I'll have to look outside of the the application site then to

3:07:12look for those those pedestrian linkages and then I know again this is site plan and it's really

3:07:18about architecture and design and it's not something we as council or tonight we're here to talk about

3:07:23land use zoning but so many of the private parking spaces with garages take they take up a lot of

3:07:30room in the complex and I see what you where you're going with the back-to-back towns in the back-to-back

3:07:36design you know things like barbecues or putting in a play structure for kids those will go in

3:07:42the front and the driveways and the garages will become the amenity space for the unit.

3:07:50You know an older design that's working well in some of our older townhouse developments is the

3:07:55idea of communal parking where you have a parking lot for 20 cars five units numbered spaces much

3:08:02better use of land use and then that front area of the house because I saw the rendering of the

3:08:08townhouse thinking oh children can play there but they can't play there because it's a roadway that

3:08:14is accessed by cars and driveways and garages have you thought about communal collective

3:08:19parking instead of private parking? We can turn to the to the owner if that's necessary but certainly

3:08:26that's not something that's contemplated and the types of units the back-to-back and that are set

3:08:30are different than the the town the street towns the street towns would have a larger front area

3:08:36but I'll turn it over to Joe. We have looked at it but I believe in our opinion from a marketing

3:08:45standpoint people really want to park where they live I mean you think about a communal somebody

3:08:51coming home today in this winter with kids and shopping and then getting from that communal

3:08:57parking space to their home it just it's not marketable it doesn't work it doesn't work in

3:09:05today's world they want to be able to get to the park if they leave you know if they leave

3:09:10something in their car sorry they want to be able to get at instead of walking a block over or two

3:09:14blocks over to go back to the car to get something that they may have missed there because I know I

3:09:18do it all the time I always leave stuff in my car and then I'm running back you know you know like I

3:09:23live in a car though I have to come back 24 floors to go to you know like to my car people want to

3:09:30have their cars near them and so you know we've looked at it for other sites I'll be honest we

3:09:35didn't look at it here we just don't think that it works here people love their cars it's Guelph

3:09:40right yeah and I guess I wasn't thinking one large communal lot I know we have in in ward five we

3:09:46have a 350 townhome complex that has smaller communal lots that are walkable to those townhouses

3:09:53and the reason I mentioned that is with the back-to-back units which is something that's on the table

3:09:58to talk about tonight is that the amenity space the barbecues the kids you know climbers those are

3:10:05going to be in the front and the units that I'm aware of you know again using an example from our

3:10:11ward they actually have a fenced-in yard in the front in the back-to-back units so that so that

3:10:16they can have the that amenity space in the front with the driveway that's not really so yeah those

3:10:22are all good points but we really designed for the market that we believe is going to buy here and so

3:10:28this is what we've come up with and on that note you're you're thinking that the market is families

3:10:35yeah definitely for sure yeah it's going to be a large part families thank you um counselor or work

3:10:43please thank you mega three so through you to the proponents um you're asking for many variances

3:10:52right so I've counted 24 on the buildings and 15 on the town so give or take um higher density

3:10:5914 stories were tenor permitted no step backs no angular planes longer buildings uh significantly

3:11:05reduce common amenity areas and a much higher maximum lot coverage like this is a tight tight

3:11:11development and then your slide titled community benefits I'm curious are any of those over and

3:11:18above the minimum that's required by our policies so community benefit under the old planning act was

3:11:26we would like additional you know stories and so we will provide these affordable units

3:11:32or we will provide additional park space so on your slide titled community benefits like is there

3:11:37anything over and above really what is required to help to offset uh the variances that you're

3:11:44seeking in terms of the community benefits perhaps we could have framed that differently it's not meant

3:11:51to be like community benefits under the planning act or something to that effect it was more to

3:11:56speak to the aspects of the proposal that are benefit to the community in terms of

3:12:00what's being provided so it wasn't supposed to be a specific thing dealing with with building

3:12:04heights but I would note that the building heights for example there are there are aspects of the

3:12:09site specific regulations that are required um more on a technical basis like the 14 stories

3:12:15would implement the official plan that had changed after the city had approved the the new zoning

3:12:20bylaw the same with the maximum net density there the site itself in terms of the proposal

3:12:27it's the site is an awkward site it's difficult to accommodate buildings in certain ways it doesn't

3:12:33that the new bylaw and the cmc zone doesn't necessarily anticipate that and trying to achieve

3:12:38the densities that the city is looking for on the site while accommodating a park while accommodating

3:12:43commercial while accommodating a road network and the all the other aspects that are proposed the

3:12:48natural heritage system lands that that that a point three hectares as well it really shrinks

3:12:53the site and and uh and that we're looking for ways to try to accommodate a proposal and the

3:12:59proposal itself when you see the images like it's not something that looks odd it's just that the

3:13:04site specific zoning is required because the number of regulations that are very prescriptive

3:13:09don't necessarily accommodate what's being proposed so we're just adjusting those as he's as need be

3:13:14for the proposed development that we have right thank you so through you merga three just another

3:13:18question then your slide deck also refers to affordability um are there any affordable units

3:13:26in development or are you thinking just adding more units in the city uh you know supply and

3:13:32demand affordability but are there any affordable units i might turn over to joe for that question

3:13:37thank you we designed the site with affordability in mind so the buildings we're looking at for

3:13:50example purpose built rental uh there's going to be condos and if you notice there's no singles here

3:13:55this is we're dealing with a smaller type of a product that's where we're trying to hit affordability

3:14:02okay so market affordability yes yeah and through volume mostly yes okay um so through you my

3:14:09gut through to have a couple more i'm i've always said i'm a south end counselor we get more height

3:14:15there the people in the highest density should have the best backyards uh the people in the

3:14:20buildings won't be able to have a barbecue and that kind of stuff is there any room to consider

3:14:26moving that park space to be more central to the development so that it's closer to the buildings

3:14:32and to councillor Caron's point easier for sort of neighboring neighboring kids to access that park

3:14:39space in terms of the park the location it was carefully considered uh there's the there is a

3:14:46requirement and staff can speak to that about having a park with frontage along the public road

3:14:51so having a park that would be interior to the site wouldn't be possible because the development

3:14:55itself will be will be a will will have private roads so we have to have it on the exterior of the

3:15:00site it's it's adjacent to the natural heritage system to have the benefits of being connected to

3:15:05there and there's the the trail as well that would be proposed through there too to connect it

3:15:09so that's why having it within the development proper like in the middle of it it's it's more

3:15:14difficult and it wouldn't be a public park at that point i don't believe is either um so we're

3:15:18really trying to work with all of these different aspects of the design to try to to try to achieve

3:15:23a park the commercial the higher densities the building heights um it's it's we're trying to

3:15:29accommodate many different things and by moving it in it just makes it even more difficult okay thanks

3:15:34and through you merga through my last questions about parking obviously so you're asking for some

3:15:38parking reductions and it works it works in a uh mixed use neighborhood um can you tell me two

3:15:46questions on parking can you tell me where the visitor parking will be for the back to back

3:15:50towns because it looks pretty tight like there won't be any on street and then for folks in the

3:15:55buildings is there anything or will there be anything in any of the agreements so that they

3:16:01know that they or their visitors can park in the commercial spaces um just so they have that

3:16:08assurance because obviously there's no overflow road you can't go park on Watson right so um

3:16:13just wondering about those additional parking spaces where those will be in terms of visitors

3:16:19parking the visitor parking for the back to back towns yeah there is visitor parking proposed as

3:16:24part of the plan um on site so that that you'll if you don't have we don't have the plan in front

3:16:29of us on screen but there is parking that's shown there and in terms of in terms of agreements between

3:16:34the commercial do you mean the townhouse residents being able to park no so so then if you're in a

3:16:39counselor Gibson referred to it that uh when you're in a mixed use development right you're parking

3:16:47at night and so folks going to the dentist or the hair salon or you know god help us a grocery store

3:16:53um they're not there at that time and so you can use that parking because what the

3:16:59residents need is different than what the commercial users need in the agreements will there be anything

3:17:05to give comfort to the folks in those in those apartment buildings in the mixed use buildings

3:17:10that they will be able to use those commercial parking spaces they are their visitors i see

3:17:15Joe coming down so i'll let him answer that thank you so yes we are going to plan and deal with that

3:17:23when the time comes we when we figure out who the commercial players are then we're

3:17:29going to look at that and we'll come up with agreements where they'll be able to share the

3:17:33facility that's great okay yeah and we can't come through you merguez we know we can't compel you to

3:17:38do that right but where there are challenges with parking with overflow then you know then we hear

3:17:45about that in the community so we just want to know that we're thinking about that ahead of time

3:17:49and we've thought about the parking very carefully and that's why we have above ground parking if you

3:17:55looked at the plans uh and there are two levels and you know we've actually seen these built and

3:18:02they work very well for those purposes the idea is not to have spillover on to private and public roads

3:18:08okay thanks and then just sorry if i may add the physical parking to requirement we actually

3:18:15are meeting we're providing to meet the demand it was the reduced parking for the residents

3:18:24so and that is that they're intended to be located at grade like on the ground level

3:18:31okay thank you and last i have councillor Allt thank you very much uh mirigathri through you i'm just

3:18:41going to ask the delegates a perennial question um as mr valela said uh some people are in love

3:18:48with their cars but guelph also in love with uh any environmental improvements that we can do

3:18:54we take very seriously the idea of moving toward net zero and 100 renewable and any other

3:19:00environmental considerations i was wondering if you could comment on net zero 100 renewable and

3:19:06anything else that would make this a a leader in environmental improvements i might turn to

3:19:13joe for it for the net zero aspect but in terms of the proposal itself there's ev chargers that

3:19:17are proposed there's an invitation gallery the bird friendly grazing glazing would be proposed

3:19:24there'd be energy efficient lighting fisters and things like that dark dark sky compliant

3:19:28lighting outside so there's a number of measures that would be accommodated and perhaps joe if

3:19:33he says he doesn't need to talk you're doing it all oh okay in terms of net zero i i i don't have

3:19:38an answer for that at this time um so we're not considering at this time that's zero but we're

3:19:58going to do everything we can to get as close as we can to well thank you um i guess uh oh i i see i

3:20:09have a councillor billings of the question and then i did i have a follow-up with you councillor gibson

3:20:15nope okay councillor billings then uh council gives and touched on this but it's the interior

3:20:25parking space floor the request is 18 square meters where we require 20 square meters so with respect

3:20:33to um council gives and talked about a larger vehicle but we also have the the bins the waste

3:20:39bins so given that you have to have the bins plus a vehicle and you're asking for 18 what would

3:20:47that accommodate then just a small vehicle i might turn to anita to answer that question if that's

3:20:58sorry anita's on on on the on webex so sorry uh can you just repeat the last question regarding the

3:21:06the parking spaces i didn't quite catch the last you're asking for 18 square meters for the garage

3:21:14space instead of the required 20 square meters so if you have bins in the garage the waste bins in

3:21:21the garage then what does that lead to with with respect to is it just a small vehicle then that

3:21:28can fit in we haven't gone into like the detailed design of the townhouses units but then these

3:21:35are essentials that like we will have like maybe a little cut out or a little recess within the

3:21:40units to accommodate those garbage bins we're not like thinking of that like those garbage

3:21:45bins are going to be too big um but your concerns about the bigger vehicle um we will look into that

3:21:53yes i don't i don't i don't think that is particularly a small vehicle that we're thinking about

3:22:00okay i just want you to consider the bins plus the larger vehicle and and the square meters that

3:22:06you require noted thank you great thank you um so i just have one question and put ever put you all

3:22:17on the spot um you're here today we receive it goes back to staff staff come forward quickly i hope

3:22:28with an approval let's say recommendation how fast are you looking to start this project

3:22:39so we'd like to start the site plan process as soon as we can you know um there's a vacant land

3:22:48condo application that we need to that we need to come up with so we need to be sure that what

3:22:55we've designed is basically what's going to get approved so we can start that process and then

3:23:00the next process will be site plans so as quickly as the staff will allow us that's how quickly we're

3:23:05going to move right thank you we're not going to hold back we're going to go 100 miles an hour

3:23:11okay with my car as fast as yes small car okay all right no problem uh well thank you to you and

3:23:20your staff and the the applicants and and all your supporting colleagues here we appreciate that

3:23:25what's going to happen now is i'm just going to have a phone number go up on the screen um and

3:23:29i'm just going to yell that out for people just in case there's anyone um at home that might have

3:23:33been watching or whatever that would like to comment on it so it's 5198375603 and we're just

3:23:41going to pause for like three four minutes or so just to see if anyone wants to call in to speak

3:23:45about it and then after that we can come back and look to move a motion to receive thank you

3:26:24all right i'll call the meeting back to order um we have no calls and no other delegations

3:26:30which to me speaks volumes because uh this was an infill project you know there'd be

3:26:38more people here so anyways this is uh this is good how about just a motion to at least put on the

3:26:45on the floor just for now uh for receiving i'm going to go to my board one mates here Gibson

3:26:51and kate okay i saw your hand uh others but it makes sense so Gibson and kate and have moved and

3:26:56seconded um now staff have heard all of our questions so now is an opportunity for us to

3:27:03give commentary to staff before i call the vote on receiving on anything new and anything new that

3:27:09they they need to write down uh i'll go Gibson and kate and again and then i'll come into the room

3:27:17thank you through you mr mayor just um just weighing in on the park location conversation

3:27:25i think it's a good conversation to have uh just maybe some local perspective from from my point of

3:27:30view um i like the location of the parkland that's being proposed and i'll tell you why um if not

3:27:37if not along Watson parkway which i know is a really hard sell because that's great commercial

3:27:42and great uh frontage for for the development i think it should go on uh front to go on to a

3:27:48roadway uh for public for public access just as a comparison the stacked town home development to

3:27:55the north at uh law and skinner a law drive and skinner drive has a sort of public square

3:28:01or public park right in the middle of the of the development it's a very central location it's beautiful

3:28:05but it does very few people know about it and it no no fault to the residents there but um it

3:28:13does function as a bit of a private private park just because it doesn't uh front onto any

3:28:17major roadway so no one very few people outside the people who live around the park know that

3:28:22it's there so i do like the idea of having it front onto a roadway so Watson and i believe Watson

3:28:28in our capital plan is set to be repaved and redeveloped um in the in the sort of semi-distant

3:28:36future but um so it will become even more of an important roadway for people to get in and out of

3:28:41the city um my thoughts in general on the on the development uh obviously this is a long time coming

3:28:49um 20 years to to sit vacant is far too long for the area of the city that's growing as fast as we are

3:28:56and to not have the commercial amenities um that the rest of this quite frankly the rest of the city

3:29:01enjoys is um is something that has long been known as a shortcoming for the east end so i think

3:29:08you know granted in the last few years we have had a gas station come out to the east end we have

3:29:13a cafe for that morning coffee run it's not important but it's something for residents i think those

3:29:19are all important sort of um getting bi amenities the minor amenities but we do miss that key anchor

3:29:26amenity of a grocery store and potential pharmacy or drug store i think that just speaks volumes to

3:29:32um the need for this development and you know i encourage staff to work with the developer i know

3:29:38that there are a number of exemptions or requests that they've made i don't i don't see any major

3:29:44hills here but i i do hope that we see this file again in the next few months and that we can be

3:29:50working towards uh saying yes on this one i i just i can't look past as well the co-benefit

3:29:59compounding benefit of a plan where i think in recent years or even in in past years we thought

3:30:04of a primarily like a one-story ground oriented standard box grocery store and that was what we

3:30:10wanted and that's what we had to have and now we're getting a stacked benefit uh a more rural um

3:30:17sorry a more urban approach to groceries where you have residences on top of the grocery store on

3:30:24top of the pharmacy on top of the drug store which is just something that is new and i think is um

3:30:29is this it's going to be a charm to that and it's going to create a bit more of an urban

3:30:34center over here in the east end and i think it um i think it's welcome so i look forward to the

3:30:40next time we see this and i know staff have taken lots of notes i and i i'm trusting in their

3:30:46capable hands so thanks very much thank you a kate and then karan please for you um i like

3:30:56councillor gibson i'm thrilled about there being something in this space um because we need more

3:31:04commercial in the area and i think that commercial on the ground floor is a great way to achieve that

3:31:11my my hope for the area is that there is an accessible surface playground because we've got

3:31:17a lot of really tall buildings and this is the only way that we can kind of guarantee accessible

3:31:23housing with the Ontario build code as it is currently so we have the likelihood of more

3:31:30people who need accessible surfaces in that playground in this area than anywhere else in

3:31:35the east end due to the building heights so i'm just kind of hoping for that um and i like the fact

3:31:40that the the park is going to be off of the sidewalk because i know that there's a lot of

3:31:44walkability especially to the library and a lot of new families and people with young children

3:31:50are constantly kind of back and forthing to the programming that they have there thanks

3:31:56thank you very much and to karan please yeah thanks i share that sentiment the sooner the

3:32:01better that this gets built it's been it's been waiting for this development for a long time but

3:32:05our job as councillors is to get the best development that we possibly can so my comments are the

3:32:11back-to-back units are are a little different than what we're used to um and uh i i believe we need

3:32:18to make sure that we have regulations and conditions in whatever agreement or our zoning we approve

3:32:25that very specifically states barbecues are not permitted because the fire regulations don't allow

3:32:29it has to be three minutes three meters from combustible wall and any other combustible material

3:32:35including a car which means no barbecues in the townhouse units and i think we without storage

3:32:41in the front for things like strollers or bicycles um that there needs to be some you know some

3:32:47communal space for for those units so we're trying to build the best possible unit and i hope the

3:32:52developers in the gallery you know take these comments as um as you know positive contributions

3:32:59and then again i know we're working on green development standards and i know we don't have a

3:33:04building code uh that that requires it but a zero development now using heat pumps for low and medium

3:33:12density is on par with traditional gas infrastructure and hVAC systems and i'm really you know i'm

3:33:19frustrated to hear that that the developer said that they're not even considering a net zero development

3:33:25and i'd like us to push that envelope a little bit more because affordability also includes

3:33:30monthly utilities we did here in the presentation that this was going to be rental or partially

3:33:35rental which means that those bills will be passed on to the tenants in perpetuity unless net zero

3:33:42renewable heat pumps are part of the proposal so i'd like to push that as much as we can as we

3:33:47work towards a final agreement and recommendation from staff in their final report thank you is there

3:33:54anybody else before i call the vote sure count sir busatil please yes thank you um my parents are

3:34:00at market square downtown toronto church in front and so i'm quite used to in their two buildings they

3:34:05have restaurant grocery store cinema shoe repair and a bank in the basement are on the main floor

3:34:12of their two buildings which quite quite great for the community there and i'm hoping that the

3:34:18commercial absolutely commercial needed i just want to echo my concerns around uh council

3:34:23buildings that raise the questions about parking uh echo that and also the back-to-back unit says

3:34:29someone who started our family in a townhouse with three kids eventually uh you know a place for a

3:34:35swimming pool and a birthday party and uh you know um a playground kind of thing i think is really

3:34:41important to think about in families uh and our our townhouse had a community room where we could

3:34:47go and have the birthday party and and those kinds of things i don't see that identity here and that's

3:34:52just a concern from my my perspective and my work with families thank you councillor uh councillor Chew

3:35:03thank you through you mr. mayor um just the delegates i just want to acknowledge that

3:35:07this is a pretty well prepared presentation and i appreciate the slide deck as well and how you

3:35:12guys ran through the questions it's probably one of the better ones that we've received um i just

3:35:18want to acknowledge that um i just i was just ruminating a little bit about councillor giblin

3:35:24and councillor rorick's comments about the park land space i think for me if there are ways in which

3:35:30you could enhance the viewshed towards the public library so it become if there's a way to make it

3:35:36more prominent um i think that would be very well appreciated and well received uh so that's

3:35:43just some comments i have but overall i i like the layout and everything that's been proposed so thank you

3:35:53okay thank you is there anything further okay well then with that um my comments are i would just echo

3:36:01say ditto to what many of my colleagues would say um especially what councillor Chew just ended on

3:36:07as well i will say that this is probably one of the better presentations i've ever seen um the

3:36:12instant outreach and proactive work that you and your staff did um with the community too like

3:36:19meeting at the victoria road rec center there gathering feedback taking that actually taking

3:36:24that feedback to heart changing some things working with staff to get to this point does not go unnoticed

3:36:30and so i think i just would like to thank you for that um my only comment to staff is uh you know i'm

3:36:36hopeful that this can come back as soon as possible um if everything is you know met to the criteria

3:36:43that needs to be met um so that we can um actually see this site come to fruition for for once um i

3:36:51don't know how to operate earth moving excavator machines but i would love to jump in one help you

3:36:59with this site because this has been a long time coming so i i i just i think i speak on behalf of

3:37:06especially um those in the east end that uh i've been looking for this literal vacant piece of like

3:37:14it's just mud it's just been mud for years to actually finally see something to come come to

3:37:20fruition here and i would just say also that uh there's this possibility of of of jobs here too

3:37:26right we haven't even talked about that there's some economic development portion to this as along

3:37:31with the housing side of it lastly and this is just a council it has nothing to do with the uh just

3:37:35it's a funny story i just remembered because i've been here long enough i remember before i was on

3:37:41council i was a council watcher at the time and i remember councillor sowsbury asking legitimately

3:37:49to the walmart um proposal could you build um could you build a housing on top of your site

3:38:01and i also remember another councillor asking where the at the corner of uh what would that be

3:38:09wellington and gordon like where the lcbo is and the bread bar and all in there like could you not

3:38:15build could you not build residential units above and i remember in those times it was like no

3:38:22that's not what we do we're not going to do that and at that time like we're talking like a long

3:38:27time ago counselors here were thinking about this sort of mixed use opportunities in the city

3:38:33and then boom here we are today well we have an actual in an actual opportunity to actually do this

3:38:41in a way that was talked about a long time ago it's very i just i just remembering back to those

3:38:46days where it was a flat out instant no and now we have an application here where we have you know

3:38:51commercial and mixed use and people living and jobs and a site that really needs to get done

3:38:57and i'm very very excited about this and so hopefully everything can be worked out and we get

3:39:03an approval back here recommendation from staff as soon as possible and we can get going so with

3:39:09that i'll call the vote uh is anyone against the receiving of this nobody that's unanimous that's

3:39:17great we leave it to you guys to figure out the rest of it and thank you for being here uh

3:39:22councillor Goller i have you on my list uh my friend for the bylaws would you mind reading

3:39:28those out for me that's on the screen there for you hello 2025 21 031 and 2025 21 034 be approved

3:39:41subject to section 284 dot 11 section 4 of the municipal act seconded by

3:39:50councillor roark is going to help you out there all right and uh i i'm going to call the vote is

3:39:57anyone against that nobody thank you that's unanimous i have no mayor's announcements other than to

3:40:03say have a good night i'll see you tomorrow morning um nine o'clock i believe yes see it nine

3:40:10everybody have a good rest of the night uh oh i guess i need adjournment that would help when it

3:40:15clerks councillor downer is going to help me with moving adjournment boost until on my side here

3:40:19is going to help with seconding is anyone against adjournment nobody have a good night for real this

3:40:24time i'll see you at nine o'clock take care