2023 Development Charge Results and Background Study report dated October 17…

2:50:52Tara, just as you're coming down with staff

2:50:54and getting ready, I'm just wondering about how long

2:50:58you think your presentation is.

2:51:00Would this be a good moment for a little bit of a break?

2:51:03It looks like it's a natural break

2:51:05because you're getting set up with your presentation

2:51:08and everything.

2:51:08Let's do only five minutes, okay, everybody?

2:51:11So I've got nine o'clock on the dot on my clock,

2:51:14which means let's come back here for nine o' five, please.

2:51:16Thank you.

2:57:40Okay, guys, just before I call the meeting back

2:57:42to order, Tara, we just have a quick question

2:57:46that's totally off topic, but we're gonna ask it anyways.

2:57:49November the seventh is when the budget gets presentation

2:57:52gets done, right?

2:57:54Correct, yeah.

2:57:55And then what's the ninth?

2:57:56There is nothing on the ninth.

2:57:58It's like a hold.

2:57:59That date, that was a hold and it's gonna be a race.

2:58:01Am I right?

2:58:02It was a hold just in case the seventh?

2:58:03Yeah, so the ninth's gonna be,

2:58:05there's your answer, everybody.

2:58:13We will be as long as the seventh as we make it.

2:58:18It's usually a pretty long presentation

2:58:20because it has to go through everything.

2:58:22Okay, back to the agenda.

2:58:25Back to the agenda.

2:58:27Here we go.

2:58:28Everyone's had their break.

2:58:29And here we go to the development charges,

2:58:35results and background study.

2:58:38For anyone here or watching later,

2:58:42this is really to receive.

2:58:46I just wanna say that up front, okay?

2:58:48Approval is next year.

2:58:51I think early next year sometime.

2:58:53So just everyone remember that, okay?

2:58:58Thank you to staff for a lot of the kind of meet and greet

2:59:02opportunities that we had up until this moment.

2:59:05And the memo that was sent, I mean,

2:59:07just so much around this.

2:59:10So Tara looks like she's gonna walk us through

2:59:14this update of the presentation.

2:59:17And thank you very much to staff

2:59:19and we'll turn it over to you.

2:59:22So thanks, Mayor Guthrie and good evening

2:59:26to you and to members of council.

2:59:29Today is the mandatory public meeting

2:59:31for the development charge background study.

2:59:35The content for the presentation builds on the information

2:59:38that you did receive in July at the education session

2:59:42for DCs and then the special council meeting

2:59:45that we first presented the draft study.

2:59:48So tonight we're gonna explain the purpose

2:59:50of the public meeting, review,

2:59:53and then just review a few of the changes

2:59:55that have happened since July.

2:59:59Okay, so to get to this stage in the DC bylaw update,

3:00:03we went through the process shown on the slide

3:00:05which exceeds the requirements

3:00:07of the Development Charges Act.

3:00:09We take pride in trying to be as engaging as possible

3:00:12through this long-term project.

3:00:14We have found that engaging a peer review group

3:00:17has been very successful in the past

3:00:18and brings together all key parties

3:00:20that have a keen interest in the study.

3:00:22Due to the complexity of the topic,

3:00:24we need the group to be part of the journey

3:00:26and provide input over a number of meetings.

3:00:29It's difficult to engage on the DC study

3:00:31through more traditional tactics

3:00:34because of the needed baseline education

3:00:37that's needed to kind of come through it with us.

3:00:39So with that being said, it is noted

3:00:41we were last with council in July

3:00:44where we presented the draft preliminary study

3:00:49to take questions from council

3:00:51on that body of work.

3:00:52Members of the public were also invited

3:00:53to delegate at that meeting and then again tonight.

3:00:56The DC background study was released on September 27th

3:01:00in accordance with the Act 20 days prior to this meeting

3:01:04and then that brings us to today

3:01:05which is the mandatory meeting.

3:01:07The final step in this process will be

3:01:09when council approves the bylaw

3:01:12which is planned for January 2024.

3:01:15Council approval must be at least 60 days after this meeting

3:01:18and before the expiry of the bylaw on March 1st.

3:01:24This public meeting is to provide a review of the proposed DC

3:01:28and to receive public input on the proposed policies

3:01:31and charges and is a mandatory step as we've noted.

3:01:35As discussed, our process did exceed

3:01:38the engagement as prescribed by legislation.

3:01:41Council in the public has also had many opportunities

3:01:45of feedback including then the have your say engagement

3:01:49that we offered immediately following the July meeting

3:01:53and the results of that are in the report.

3:01:57Two main changes that we've made

3:01:59since the time you've seen it in July.

3:02:01First, the growth allocations for linear water projects

3:02:04were refined.

3:02:05Our consultants have updated the growth allocation

3:02:08using detailed age and size information

3:02:11to better reflect the growth allocations of these projects.

3:02:14While the impact of the changes

3:02:15on the calculated DC rate is minimal,

3:02:17the refinements are more accurate

3:02:19and strengthen the study's results overall.

3:02:21The Guelph Transit Terminal has also been added

3:02:24to the DC Capital Program using Dillon Consulting

3:02:28which is the author of the technical appendix

3:02:31for transit of the background study.

3:02:34Determine that the terminal would expand the capacity

3:02:37of the system to accommodate growth

3:02:39and therefore is eligible.

3:02:44This next section, we will review the changes

3:02:46to the rate since you last seen them.

3:02:48In July, we presented a calculated rate of 68,902

3:02:53for single and semi-detached.

3:02:55The rates now calculated at 69,300 per unit.

3:02:59The rates in this table reflect a 0.6% increase

3:03:02from the last rates shared in July.

3:03:08Nearing that rate to just single detached homes,

3:03:12the current rate today is 47,839

3:03:16and the calculated rate will be 69,300.

3:03:19It should be noted that due to the mandatory 20% discount

3:03:23from bill 23, the applied rates will be 55,440

3:03:27for the first year of the new bylaw

3:03:30with the discount decreasing by 5% each year

3:03:32to reach the full rate in year five.

3:03:35And we've talked a lot about that in the budget meeting

3:03:38so we won't dive into that more today.

3:03:42Similarly, this table compares

3:03:44the current non-residential rate

3:03:46which is $16.24 per square foot

3:03:50and the calculated rate will be 27,44.

3:03:53Due to the mandatory 20% discount,

3:03:56the applied rate will start at $21.95 for the first year

3:04:01and then decreasing each year as noted

3:04:04with the full rate going into effect in year five.

3:04:11This chart shows the DC rates

3:04:13compared with municipal comparators

3:04:16and it was first presented in July

3:04:18but at that time council requested staff

3:04:20to provide information on municipalities

3:04:22that have bylaws that will expire within a year.

3:04:25Typically when municipalities update their bylaws

3:04:28their rates increase to reflect increasing cost

3:04:31of infrastructure.

3:04:32Our consultants have assembled this data

3:04:34marking the municipalities with updates

3:04:36within this year with purple diamonds.

3:04:39This slide shows that the single and semi-detached unit rates

3:04:42for Guelph and compare municipalities

3:04:46and the municipalities are from our approved,

3:04:48the council approved list of comparators.

3:04:51Guelph's calculated rate is in the middle

3:04:54of our municipal benchmark group.

3:04:57However, there are many municipalities with lower rates

3:05:00that will update their bylaws

3:05:02which would be expected to bring their rates closer to

3:05:04or in excess of ours.

3:05:06It can be expected that with this shift

3:05:08will end up on the kind of lower end of below average

3:05:14by the time those updates occur.

3:05:20This chart shows the same information

3:05:22for commercial rates for comparator municipalities.

3:05:25Some municipalities break out their non-residential rates

3:05:27into further categories, commercial and industrial

3:05:31while Guelph only has one category encompassing both.

3:05:34Since Guelph has a single non-residential rate

3:05:37our rate is lower for commercial development

3:05:39as other municipalities update their rates.

3:05:42Guelph will remain on the lower end

3:05:44of development charts driving our competitive advantage.

3:05:49Here are the industrial rates

3:05:52for comparator municipalities.

3:05:54Guelph is currently on the lower end

3:05:56of industrial rates as well.

3:05:58The rate update with the phase

3:06:00and will bring us to the middle of our comparator group.

3:06:03The fully phased in rate will bring us more on the upper end

3:06:08compared to the middle of the pack.

3:06:11Guelph standing moved more for the industrial rates

3:06:14because the rates are a lot more similar

3:06:15across their comparators.

3:06:17Our calculated rates remain very close to average

3:06:20and as identified by the purple diamonds

3:06:23there are several bylaws that are gonna be updated

3:06:25in the coming year and so we expect those rates

3:06:28to also shift upwards.

3:06:34Okay, so under the Development Charges Act

3:06:35municipalities can impose either a uniform charge

3:06:39or an area specific charge.

3:06:41A uniform charge means that the same charge

3:06:44is applied throughout the entire city

3:06:45versus an area specific charge

3:06:47where there would be a different rate for certain areas.

3:06:51Staff committed to providing an evaluation

3:06:53of an area specific charge specifically for Claremalpy

3:06:57as an outcome of the Claremalpy secondary plan.

3:07:00Overall, after assessment we recommend proceeding

3:07:04with a uniform development charge

3:07:06rather than the specific area charge.

3:07:09The uniform rate will keep a level playing field for growth

3:07:12and provides the most flexibility for financing

3:07:15and promoting development across the entire city.

3:07:20Over the next few slides we'll review the analysis

3:07:23in a little more detail that led to that recommendation.

3:07:26This slide shows the calculated rate for a citywide rate

3:07:30applied against for the whole city for three service rates

3:07:34and so when we look at the area rate it's also,

3:07:38you need to know that the consultants have recommended

3:07:41that it would only apply to these three rates

3:07:44and not for the rest of the services.

3:07:47And so the assessment's done just on those three services.

3:07:52And so when we look at the DC related cost

3:07:57across the whole city that totals 23,459.

3:08:04And then to the right of the citywide rate

3:08:07as a calculation split out taking the class

3:08:10for Claremalpy and divided by the growth for Claremalpy

3:08:13and to arrive at that rate.

3:08:18You can see that the results show Claremalpy

3:08:20to be slightly lower than the citywide rate

3:08:23and this was surprising for staff

3:08:25and because of this we took more time

3:08:27to assess these results and worked out details

3:08:30with our consultants and our internal housing team

3:08:33to provide the recommendation of the uniform rate.

3:08:39The answer to why Claremalpy area rate is lower

3:08:42comes back to how infrastructure is built

3:08:44in a greenfield area versus an intensification area

3:08:48like the downtown.

3:08:49Growth related infrastructure is a combination

3:08:52of infrastructure built by the city

3:08:53and then local service infrastructure built by developers.

3:08:57For example, major common infrastructure

3:08:59like arterial roads, water mains and catch basins

3:09:02are built using DCs as they're needed for all development

3:09:06and then the local subdivisions then connect in

3:09:09to this big common infrastructure with local roads,

3:09:12pipes and stormwater ponds and those are funded

3:09:15by the developer.

3:09:16With Claremalpy being a greenfield development

3:09:19it has a significant amount of local service infrastructure

3:09:22that will not be eligible for DCs

3:09:25and where this infrastructure will be built by developers

3:09:27and then assumed by the city when it goes into use.

3:09:31This nuance of who pays for a certain infrastructure

3:09:35impacted the outcome of our analysis.

3:09:38This slide depicts the total local service policy

3:09:42infrastructure cost projected for Claremalpy

3:09:45with the historical actual city wide compared

3:09:48to the actual city wide infrastructure assumed

3:09:51over the past five years and you can see

3:09:53that the difference is quite significant.

3:09:57So if developers are paying for local service infrastructure

3:10:00how does that impact us in the city?

3:10:03And so the answer is that once the local service

3:10:05infrastructure is built it's assumed by the city

3:10:08and then it needs to be maintained and replaced over time

3:10:11and so it will become part of our asset inventory

3:10:14and it gets added to our infrastructure renewal costs.

3:10:17So even though assessment growth revenue increases

3:10:20as these properties come online

3:10:23to pay for additional services,

3:10:26we also the development of the greenfield area adds

3:10:29much higher cost to maintain

3:10:31and replace all the assumed infrastructure and perpetuity.

3:10:36So if the development charge rate is lower for Claremalpy

3:10:40the rate will create an advantage to build in this area

3:10:43over other areas in the city

3:10:45and a uniform rate will keep a level playing field

3:10:47for growth that is expected to have less of an impact

3:10:51on the tax rates and user rates overall.

3:10:56In addition to not wanting to create unintended incentives

3:10:59for one growth area over another

3:11:02there are also strategic and administrative considerations

3:11:04to the recommendation.

3:11:07So first is the alternative development charge

3:11:09payment agreements or front-ending agreements.

3:11:12So area specific charges are sometimes a tool

3:11:14that can assist with implementing alternative development

3:11:18payment agreements.

3:11:21If all the projects within an area specific charge

3:11:24are proposed to be front-ended

3:11:25the entire area specific DC would be used to pay back

3:11:30these front-ending projects.

3:11:32This removes the decision from staff of deciding

3:11:34which projects to fund first from DC revenues

3:11:36and be considered a benefit.

3:11:38However, area specific charges also remove flexibility

3:11:42to build infrastructure that crosses the area boundaries

3:11:45and limits flexibility to find willing partners

3:11:48in the front-ending agreements.

3:11:50Importantly having a uniform rate will not prevent the city

3:11:53from implementing front-ending agreements

3:11:56as a financing tool if it's determined to be desirable.

3:12:01So secondly, we have to consider the administrative

3:12:04or the administration of the reserve funds themselves.

3:12:08Administratively separate reserve funds

3:12:10for the services covered by the area specific charge

3:12:13would need to be set up and funds collected

3:12:16for those services can only be spent

3:12:17for those services in that area.

3:12:20This limits flexibility across all services

3:12:22but also limits the ability to move forward

3:12:25with infrastructure projects in the area covered

3:12:27by this charge.

3:12:29And borrowing between area specific

3:12:32and city-wide reserve funds is restricted.

3:12:36A uniform rate allows for more flexible resource management

3:12:39and reduced administrative burden

3:12:41as there are fewer restrictions

3:12:43on inter-DC reserve fund borrowing

3:12:46and it significantly minimizes the need for debt

3:12:50to manage cash flow issues.

3:12:58So there are four major areas of the city that are,

3:13:01sorry, I just wanna go back one slide, sorry.

3:13:04There are four major areas of the city

3:13:05that are contributing to growth.

3:13:07The Claremont secondary plan area,

3:13:09the Guelph Innovation District secondary plan,

3:13:12the downtown secondary plan area,

3:13:15and finally the Dolan quarry area.

3:13:17We don't recommend introducing a rate in one area

3:13:20without considering the intensification areas

3:13:23and it's our best policy recommendation

3:13:25to maintain equity in our rates

3:13:27for the best financing flexibility

3:13:29and to reach our development goals.

3:13:31For all of these reasons previously noted,

3:13:33we are recommending continuing

3:13:35with uniform rate for development charges

3:13:38and this has been incorporated

3:13:39into the DC background study and draft bylaws.

3:13:45So the final piece of the presentation

3:13:47that we wanna draw your attention to is the bylaw update.

3:13:52So staff are recommending a new bylaw structure

3:13:55as recommended by our consultants

3:13:57and reviewed by internal and external legal counsel

3:14:00in response to the mandatory rate phase in requirements

3:14:03introduced through bill 23.

3:14:05The proposed bylaws will include one parent bylaw

3:14:09that contains all the general provisions

3:14:11that will apply to the city's development charge regime.

3:14:16There will then be a series of child bylaws

3:14:18for each individual service in the development charge

3:14:21that specify the rates for that service.

3:14:24The objective of this approach is to build in the flexibility

3:14:27to update the rates on an interim basis

3:14:30for one service without updating them for all services.

3:14:34And so this is needed because if it's determined

3:14:38to be financially beneficial to do so,

3:14:42every time you change the rate or you update the bylaw,

3:14:45that phase in kicks in again

3:14:46and we're cut back to the 20%, reduction of 20%.

3:14:50So this is meant to protect the rates

3:14:54that don't need to be updated,

3:14:56say in the interim of the 10 years.

3:15:01So however, staff have recommended that we direct a review

3:15:06of the need for a five year interim update

3:15:08to the background study and summer all of the bylaws

3:15:11as part of the next multi-year budget.

3:15:16If this review is undertaken and it's deemed to be necessary

3:15:19to update the rates for one or more services,

3:15:21but not all of them are new bylaw structure

3:15:23will protect those rates that are fine

3:15:26and can continue on at the current or the approved rate

3:15:29at the time.

3:15:32It is important to note that this is a new approach

3:15:35evolving from bill 23 and Guelph is among

3:15:38the first municipality to consider adopting this approach

3:15:41given the timing of our bylaw update,

3:15:43which was already in progress at the time of bill 23.

3:15:47We feel it's of utmost priority to respond

3:15:50to these legislative changes as it relates

3:15:53to the mandatory lost revenues with each bylaw update

3:15:56and we need to forge new path to protect the revenues

3:15:59needed to enable new housing.

3:16:05To conclude the presentation,

3:16:07there's three recommendations before you today.

3:16:09And as the mayor had mentioned,

3:16:11the first one is just to receive the development study

3:16:15and we're continuing to take feedback through this meeting,

3:16:19but also after this meeting as we prepare

3:16:21for the final meeting in January.

3:16:25The second one is that Council direct staff

3:16:27to investigate the use of front-ending agreements

3:16:29as a growth financing tool,

3:16:31including the impact on staffing

3:16:35the impact on our credit rating,

3:16:36delegated authority structure

3:16:38and the risks and benefits of this approach.

3:16:41And then finally that Council direct staff

3:16:44to review the need of a five year update

3:16:46to the DC bylaw as part of our next budget process.

3:16:51And so I did just wanna briefly say about recommendation two

3:16:54that we've talked a lot about front-ending agreements

3:16:56in the chamber, but we're now asking Council

3:16:59to formalize the request for staff to report back on this

3:17:03with more detailed information

3:17:05on how we would actually action these agreements in Guelph

3:17:08and what it will mean to our processes,

3:17:12policies and financial capacity.

3:17:14This is needed work to get done

3:17:16and there'll be cross-functionally

3:17:17between finance, legal, planning

3:17:19and our development engineering groups.

3:17:21And it will be the focus of our work plan in 2024

3:17:26once we get past this bylaw update.

3:17:29And so then the final step of the process is in January,

3:17:32like I said, we'll be back with the final DC bylaw

3:17:36at that time for your approval.

3:17:39And any further adjustments after this public meeting

3:17:42that may warrant refinement of the study

3:17:46prior to bylaw adoption will be accompanied

3:17:48by a memo to Council at that time in January.

3:17:52And so with that concludes our presentation,

3:17:55we're happy to take questions with us today.

3:17:59We do have our finance team,

3:18:00but then also we have our consultant Byron Tan

3:18:06from Watson & Associates also here to support.

3:18:11Well, Tara and team, thank you sincerely.

3:18:14Thank you very, very much

3:18:17for kind of holding our hand all the way

3:18:19even to this moment, right?

3:18:22It's, you know, at the end of the day,

3:18:25people just see a number,

3:18:28but there is so much that goes on underneath that

3:18:32to get to that number.

3:18:34And it's complicated.

3:18:36And it's an interesting mathematical equation.

3:18:39And I think that can't be lost.

3:18:41So thank you.

3:18:43And what's to see if I can at least get the recommendations

3:18:46on the floor or Rourke and Downer will do that for me.

3:18:52Oh, there's delegations.

3:18:53I'm so sorry.

3:18:54Yes, there is.

3:18:56Just one, I have just one.

3:18:57Is that right?

3:18:59Yeah, but yes, and it's five minutes.

3:19:02But because this is a statutory meeting on this,

3:19:06we have to allow anyone to call in as well,

3:19:08but it's only five minutes on that as well.

3:19:10Thank you for reminding me, everyone.

3:19:14Let's go to the delegation then first that we know of.

3:19:18And that's Dustin Davis.

3:19:20And Dustin, I think is gonna join us by video.

3:19:25So Dustin, it's Mayor Guthrie and you have popped on.

3:19:29So thank you very much.

3:19:31Go right ahead, Dustin.

3:19:32You have up to five minutes.

3:19:34Thank you.

3:19:35Good evening, your worship, Mayor Guthrie

3:19:36and members of Guelph City Council.

3:19:39Thank you for the opportunity to address you today.

3:19:42My name is Dustin Davis.

3:19:43I serve as a chair for the government

3:19:45and external affairs committee

3:19:47for the Guelph District Association of Realtors.

3:19:50Today, Jeter is here to advocate

3:19:52against the steep increase in development charges

3:19:55in the city of Guelph outlined

3:19:56by the development charge background study

3:19:58being discussed today by council.

3:20:01While the development charge by law

3:20:03isn't scheduled to be voted on by council

3:20:05until January of 2024,

3:20:07we urge council to reconsider such a steep increase

3:20:10to residential development charges.

3:20:13As this council knows, Guelph is currently facing

3:20:15an unprecedented housing affordability crisis.

3:20:19The average home prices surged to $836,000,

3:20:23a staggering 58% increase in just five years.

3:20:27For many, finding an affordable place to call home

3:20:29has become an overwhelming and very daunting task.

3:20:33The median household income in Guelph stands at $94,000,

3:20:37with families spending up to 60%

3:20:39of their pre-tax income on housing costs.

3:20:41The primary driver for our affordability crisis,

3:20:45as echoed here many times tonight,

3:20:46is the insufficient supply of homes.

3:20:49To address this issue, the provincial government

3:20:51has set a goal of constructing 18,000 new homes in Guelph

3:20:54by 2031.

3:20:55However, we are falling far short of this target,

3:20:58having completed only roughly 15%

3:21:00of our annual goal this year.

3:21:02On that note, we'd like to commend our mayor

3:21:04and supporting members of council

3:21:06for backing bold changes to Guelph's zoning bylaws

3:21:09to allow for more infill and gentle density.

3:21:12These changes will go a long way

3:21:13to improving affordability in our city.

3:21:16With respect to development charges,

3:21:18the increases outlined in the background study

3:21:20will effectively take Guelph backwards

3:21:22when it comes to housing affordability.

3:21:25According to GDR's calculations,

3:21:27the background study is proposing

3:21:28to increase development charges

3:21:30on residential units, excuse me,

3:21:32by anywhere from 38 to 56%.

3:21:36Perhaps what's more concerning is that

3:21:38some of the steepest increases

3:21:39around what we would normally say

3:21:41are the most affordable units for families.

3:21:43On semi-detached homes,

3:21:45development charges will go up $19,000.

3:21:48On multiplexes, they will go up $13,000.

3:21:51On two-bedroom apartments,

3:21:52they will go up nearly $14,000.

3:21:55These costs, one way or another,

3:21:57will get added directly to the final selling price

3:21:59of a new home and therefore passed on to the end user,

3:22:02homeowner, making it even more challenging

3:22:05to afford a home in our community.

3:22:07Moreover, development charges act as a deterrent

3:22:10to new housing supply,

3:22:12since they translated to higher construction costs,

3:22:14making it even more challenging for developers

3:22:16to create homes our community desperately needs.

3:22:20While we do acknowledge the city's need for revenue

3:22:22to support and upgrade essential services as needed,

3:22:25as well as the challenges presented by Bill 23,

3:22:28we must break a balance between generating funds

3:22:30and ensuring housing remains affordable.

3:22:33Most importantly, golf must be consistent.

3:22:36We can't work to end an exclusionary zoning

3:22:38while then piling on government fees

3:22:40to new home construction.

3:22:41We can't pass a multiplex zoning by-law

3:22:43just to turn around and add thousands of dollars

3:22:45in new costs to these new units.

3:22:47These policy decisions are seemingly at odds with each other,

3:22:52but they're definitely at odds with our end goal,

3:22:54which is to build more homes

3:22:55and return affordability to our market.

3:22:58In conclusion, the housing affordability crisis

3:23:01is a significant challenge that demands bold action.

3:23:04And as such, we urge you to reconsider

3:23:07the proposed increase in development charges

3:23:09and focus on policies that will increase housing's

3:23:11blank wealth.

3:23:12As a future success and prosperity of our city

3:23:15depends on our ability to provide affordable housing options

3:23:18for all of its residents.

3:23:20Thank you for your time, consideration.

3:23:25Thank you, Dustin.

3:23:28Sorry, Dustin, are you still with us?

3:23:32Yeah, I'm still here, sorry.

3:23:33Oh, OK.

3:23:33All right, perfect.

3:23:35Thank you very much for your delegation.

3:23:38And just wondering if there's any questions.

3:23:40I have Councillor O'Rourke, please.

3:23:44Thank you, Mayor Guthrie, through you to our delegate.

3:23:46Thanks very much for your delegation.

3:23:48So we talk about this a lot around the horseshoe, right?

3:23:51The costs of infrastructure for growth,

3:23:55they're outlined in the development charges by-law

3:23:57in quite a lot of detail.

3:23:59So does GDR and its members, is there a mechanism

3:24:03that if we said, you know what, yeah,

3:24:05let's reduce those development charges?

3:24:09Do you have a mechanism to pass those reductions

3:24:11onto the buyers, or would you sell at market rate?

3:24:16And similarly, how would you keep somebody

3:24:20from just flipping a house?

3:24:22So the first time home buyer gets the,

3:24:26first person to buy a new home gets the savings,

3:24:29let's call them savings, on the development charges.

3:24:33The global taxpayers on the hook to pay for the infrastructure

3:24:36that didn't get funded through the DCs,

3:24:38and then they just flip their house and sell it at market rate.

3:24:40So this is the stuff we're trying to navigate.

3:24:43And I'm wondering whether the realtors have a solution

3:24:48or a suggestion around that.

3:24:52Sure, it's not, I think we all agree

3:24:56that it's not really an easy water to navigate,

3:24:59necessarily there for sure.

3:25:00I think that, you know, definitely there's some common ground

3:25:04we could find there without a risk of hijacking

3:25:06the whole meeting here and batting around a million things.

3:25:08But I think what I'm seeing more of currently,

3:25:10which led to this delegation specifically,

3:25:12is projects are at the point where they're getting canceled

3:25:15now due to these charges.

3:25:17And more so, it will happen with future

3:25:20if they rise this much.

3:25:21So I definitely can appreciate your perspective there

3:25:26on how do we insulate those first-time buyers,

3:25:29those house whippers, all those things.

3:25:31I just at this point where I can think of two specific projects

3:25:35that would provide roughly 400 units or so

3:25:39that won't put shovels in the ground

3:25:40because it's too expensive for them to do it.

3:25:42So I think they're kind of two different problems

3:25:44or maybe the same problem deeper down the pathway there.

3:25:48But I think that at this point,

3:25:49what we're faced against is people just fly out

3:25:53and not building.

3:25:54I think that that's more of a concerning issue

3:25:56than two years or three years down the road.

3:25:59Okay, thanks very much.

3:26:03Okay, thank you.

3:26:04Thank you, Dustin, for coming to Council Chambers

3:26:07on behalf of GDR.

3:26:08We appreciate it.

3:26:10Thank you.

3:26:10Thank you.

3:26:12And let me now just read out the number

3:26:15for a potential anybody who wants to call in.

3:26:19The screen will come up.

3:26:20Five, one, nine, eight, three, seven,

3:26:255603.

3:26:29You saw what I did there, right?

3:26:30I tried to memorize it, yeah.

3:26:32Five, one, nine, eight, three, seven, 5603.

3:26:36If you'd like to speak your mind on this issue,

3:26:39we'll just wait three or four minutes here

3:26:41to see if anyone wants to call in.

3:26:43Is there anyone in the room wants to talk about this one?

3:26:46Nope, okay.

3:26:47So it's just we'll just wait for somebody

3:26:50to call in if they wish, okay?

3:26:52So we'll just pause for three or four minutes.

3:31:15Okay, I'll call the meeting back to order, everybody.

3:31:19And we have no call ins

3:31:21and no one else that wanted to speak to this.

3:31:25So thank you.

3:31:28I think it was the clerks and a couple of my colleagues

3:31:30to the right here that yelled at me

3:31:32that I forgot about the delegation, so thank you.

3:31:36All right, so it is back to us.

3:31:37Could I have someone please move the recommendations?

3:31:40I think I saw over here.

3:31:44Okay, so you captured who did it, moved and seconded.

3:31:50Yeah, I didn't think so.

3:31:51I'm pretty sure it was Councillor Orr-Rourke and Downer

3:31:55that moved the motions, the three recommendations for us.

3:31:59So thank you.

3:32:01Is there any, what we'll do here is questions

3:32:07and if you have comments to say it at the same time.

3:32:11But I just wanna just please look at the time as well.

3:32:15And I'm saying that only just out of respect,

3:32:17we've got this to deal with,

3:32:19we've got another one to deal with as well.

3:32:21And then we're heading up,

3:32:23getting into the 10 o'clock range up to 11 o'clock

3:32:25where we have to move past 11 o'clock with a motion,

3:32:28which I don't think we'd like to do if we can help it.

3:32:32It's been a long day for us.

3:32:33We wanna make sure our brain is working good there for us.

3:32:38So questions, comments, if need be.

3:32:42Orr-Rourke, I'll start with you.

3:32:44And then Gibson, I see you.

3:32:46Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:32:47So the comments are really appreciated being part of the,

3:32:50I'm sorry, I'm not very tall.

3:32:53Really appreciated being part of the group

3:32:56that was looking at the DCs all the way along.

3:32:58So thank you for doing that.

3:33:00And it was great to hear from folks in the community.

3:33:03I'm thrilled that we're looking

3:33:05at those front-loading agreements.

3:33:07I would encourage members of the public

3:33:09to look at the DC study report.

3:33:13I know nobody's sitting at home thinking,

3:33:15oh, maybe I should read that.

3:33:17But every buoy, every picnic table,

3:33:21every ambulance is itemized in there.

3:33:25And so when you think like,

3:33:26how do they get to these numbers?

3:33:28That DC bylaw really lays out quite a lot of detail

3:33:31around how we get to those numbers.

3:33:33So it is a very interesting read

3:33:36and very prescribed bylaw.

3:33:38My question for staff is the province just released

3:33:42a new proposed definition around what affordability will be.

3:33:46That's going to trigger some exemptions for the DC bylaw.

3:33:52And so do we have a sense of what the impact is

3:33:56of that new definition?

3:33:57Is it better from a financial perspective?

3:34:00Is it problematic?

3:34:03Do we know how it's gonna work?

3:34:04And if you can't answer tonight,

3:34:05when would we know more about that?

3:34:11Through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke,

3:34:12we expect actually that it will be better.

3:34:15So the new proposed definition includes an income-based measure

3:34:20for affordability and the previously proposed legislation

3:34:25only entertained a market-based rate.

3:34:29So we expect the number of affordable housing units

3:34:33that meet that definition to get that exemption

3:34:36would be lower with that income-based measure added,

3:34:39but that's an off the top response

3:34:42and further analysis is required.

3:34:47Thanks for asking that question.

3:34:48That's great.

3:34:49Gibson, please.

3:34:50Yeah, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor.

3:34:52So again, I agree that the number

3:34:55kind of jumped off the page at me a little bit

3:34:56when I was reading the reports,

3:34:57but it is justified.

3:34:59And I think the staff have done a great job here.

3:35:01I guess the question is, and again,

3:35:03I'm not pushing aside the comments from G-DAR.

3:35:05I think they're valid.

3:35:06The cost to build and the cost to get things started.

3:35:12A question based on some things I keep hearing,

3:35:15I keep hearing about people who have put down down payments

3:35:18two years ago on a condo and then go back to the bank now

3:35:21and the condo is saying, no,

3:35:22we're not going to qualify for that mortgage anymore

3:35:23and people are losing deposits.

3:35:26The cost of building is multifaceted to staff.

3:35:31Are you worried at all about the temperature

3:35:35of these increases affecting home building,

3:35:38affecting new startups?

3:35:39Again, I don't think that there's going to be a huge change.

3:35:42I think the bigger piece is interest rates with lending.

3:35:46Quite frankly, I keep hearing that over and over again.

3:35:49So I guess my question to staff is,

3:35:52have you taken a temperature?

3:35:54Have you thought about how this may impact

3:35:57the cost of building relative to the fact that,

3:36:01you know, we're looking at 8% interest rates

3:36:03at the banks right now.

3:36:06So through the mayor to Councillor Gibson,

3:36:11we did absolutely have that lens

3:36:14while we were doing the study update

3:36:16and, you know, just trying to balance though

3:36:20the cost of getting the infrastructure

3:36:23and the servicing in the ground

3:36:24so we can enable that housing that we need.

3:36:27So I would say that, you know,

3:36:30that was the important piece of us

3:36:32doing that comparative analysis too.

3:36:34We really look to ensuring that, you know,

3:36:38we're staying within our comparative municipalities

3:36:43and I feel like we are and we are kind of right in line

3:36:47with the market from that sense.

3:36:51And then I guess just to echo your comments

3:36:56about the economic environment and the interest rates,

3:36:59I think that that's a significant factor right now

3:37:04in terms of the cost to build.

3:37:07And I think that, you know, has to be considered

3:37:12just it's not just the cost of DCs,

3:37:15it's not just these costs,

3:37:16there's a lot of costs like you said

3:37:18that go into those proformas.

3:37:22Sure, I guess my fear is anything

3:37:25that would potentially slow down home building

3:37:28is just that we want to keep our eye on.

3:37:30But again, I think the economic environment out there

3:37:33right now is having a bigger role to play.

3:37:36Thoughts, Mr. Mayor, I'll just be quickly on my thoughts.

3:37:40I guess anything that like when we talk about

3:37:44potentially nibbling away at some policies

3:37:46and trying to reduce overall costs of building,

3:37:50I just have never seen a lot of success

3:37:53in those sort of attempts to reduce housing costs.

3:37:57I know I'm very, it seems very,

3:38:01I'm trying to think of the word.

3:38:03I'm not sure how much people put stock in their relationship

3:38:06but I really do believe that supply

3:38:08and increasing the supply of housing

3:38:10is going to be the answer here

3:38:12to reducing overall cost of the housing market.

3:38:16So I'm reluctant to sort of nibble away

3:38:19at development charges and trying to reduce prices that way.

3:38:23I think ultimately supply will drive that market

3:38:27downside, sort of that market downgrading

3:38:30in pricing of housing.

3:38:31We have to work on the supply.

3:38:32So thanks very much to staff.

3:38:34This keeps us moving in the right direction.

3:38:37It just keeps us moving in the right direction

3:38:38as in giving our developer certainty

3:38:41on what it's going to cost

3:38:42and so they can do their performance to getting housing built.

3:38:47Okay, thank you.

3:38:48Is there anything more or can I wrap up some comments here?

3:38:53It looks like I can't.

3:38:54Okay, I just want to say one comment

3:38:55because I think it's really important.

3:38:58It actually took me a little while to get to this point.

3:39:01It's kind of learnings for me several years ago

3:39:04but if we as a council want to try to help with incentives

3:39:11or waving things or lowering things,

3:39:16that can be done outside of the DC bylaw.

3:39:22Okay, so the DC bylaw is there, it's math.

3:39:30It's baked in math and it just kind of spits out

3:39:35the number of what it is for everything that we need.

3:39:40And leave that alone.

3:39:43Like that's what that is.

3:39:46And then if we want to eat away at costs

3:39:50to have specific focused incentives

3:39:53on certain types of builds or things like that

3:39:56outside of a provincial regulatory that would mandate it,

3:39:59so our own, then we create policies for that.

3:40:03We can create one, two, three, four,

3:40:0510 of them if we wanted to.

3:40:07And that's the way we can try to figure out

3:40:10how to help with lowering costs

3:40:13if we had to or give incentives towards those things.

3:40:16But the DC bylaw is very much,

3:40:20I hate to use the word but regulated

3:40:23and administrative type of policy

3:40:27that sets that standard across the city

3:40:30that gives certainty for exactly what people are up against.

3:40:34And you kind of leave it alone.

3:40:37It's just, it is this animal that gets updated

3:40:40every few years.

3:40:41And remember, councillor works at something here,

3:40:44it's kind of based in the bylaw, which is correct.

3:40:48But it's based on provincial,

3:40:50this is provincial legislation through that,

3:40:54that this is catered after.

3:40:56So it's not like we're just kind of

3:40:58making our own little thing up here.

3:41:00And so I just, I think it's an important thing to remember.

3:41:04And as I said, I openly admit,

3:41:06it took me a while to be like,

3:41:07well, why can't we do this?

3:41:08And why can't we cut around the edges here?

3:41:10Do that in policies that are separate outside of this.

3:41:15And I think that if you kind of think of it that way,

3:41:17not only us as a team, but for people maybe looking

3:41:21in on this a little bit, it can help us address

3:41:25some of the, maybe the commentary that came from GDAR

3:41:27or others about trying to help, we can.

3:41:31But we can do that outside of this process, okay?

3:41:36And this policy.

3:41:37All right, thank you.

3:41:38That's my comments.

3:41:40I'm looking forward to this coming back,

3:41:42especially the front-ending agreement stuff.

3:41:43I appreciate that.

3:41:45All right, anyone against this?

3:41:46That's me calling the vote here.

3:41:47Anyone against this?

3:41:50Nobody?

3:41:51Okay, that's unanimous.

3:41:52Thank you so much.

3:41:53We are, I think we're at our last thing.

3:42:03We are.

3:42:05Okay, we've been here together long enough today.

3:42:08We're almost becoming heritage ourselves.

3:42:12Okay, two, eight, two, one, eight, seven, Gordon Street.

3:42:17The notice of intention to designate.

3:42:22Stephen Robinson is here, our senior heritage planner.