Urban Design Master Plan (UDMP) for 64 Duke Street “Mid-town Village” Concept Plan in Attachment 1, be supported.

6:26:58for 64 Duke Street.

6:27:00And just as a heads up, I did have one delegation, Ken Thompson emailed and mentioned that he

6:27:05was not able to do the delegation just to recognize that.

6:27:10But we have a presentation from Scott, who's going to be our Scott.

6:27:16Is it plant, plant or plantae?

6:27:18I'm going to say.

6:27:20Okay.

6:27:20Plant.

6:27:21Thank you.

6:27:21Who's a project manager with the planning development who's going to do a presentation

6:27:25for us.

6:27:26And then we have one, two, three, four, five, six different delegations.

6:27:33And then it comes back to us to discuss a little bit.

6:27:37Okay.

6:27:37Scott, thank you for coming forward.

6:27:40I'll turn it over to you whenever you're ready.

6:27:42Okay.

6:27:50And respective council's time.

6:27:51I'll keep this presentation short and concise tonight.

6:27:54Good evening, everyone.

6:27:55My name is Scott.

6:27:56I'm a project manager in planning and building services.

6:27:59Thank you for listening in tonight on this important future project in the city of Guelph.

6:28:04The purpose of this report is to seek council support and the urban design master plan for

6:28:10the Midtown Village project.

6:28:12It is noted that council support does not approve any zoning or strict design details

6:28:17tonight as this is a conceptual document that will provide a framework to guide future development

6:28:23applications.

6:28:31The subject properties municipal addresses are 33, 37, 39 and 45 Elizabeth Street,

6:28:3864 Duke Street, 69 here on street and 60 Al Street.

6:28:43The support of this master plan will be required before the applicant submits a formal development

6:28:48application through the city's downtown community planning permit system.

6:28:52Again, the recommendation before you does not approve any zoning, which will be evaluated

6:28:57in detail at a future community planning permit application.

6:29:01An urban design master plan is required to proactively manage large scale growth on the

6:29:11existing industrial lands that will support the arrangement of land uses, infrastructure

6:29:16and public spaces to ensure a high quality of life and environmental sustainability for

6:29:20the neighborhood.

6:29:22Generally, there is a positive public reception in the community and generally this urban design

6:29:28master plan supports the city's growth targets and urban design objectives.

6:29:3339 Elizabeth Street on the north of the site is included within the project area, which is a

6:29:38more recent small land addition to the boundary area of the master plan.

6:29:42The number of proposed dwelling units is estimated at approximately 800 to 875 in total,

6:29:49which on the topic of growth would help the city meet its growth targets.

6:29:53The square footage estimate for commercial space has not yet been specified and the buildings

6:29:57will primarily be residential with opportunities for small scale commercial and community uses

6:30:02serving the neighborhood and ground floor spaces oriented to the public.

6:30:07In the downtown secondary plan land use schedule, the lands are currently designated

6:30:20residential one, residential two, mixed use one and parks designations.

6:30:26In the downtown secondary plan maximum building height schedule, a concept plan includes

6:30:35seven buildings that range in height from two stories to 23 stories with the tallest buildings

6:30:41on this project being located at the center of the site transitioning to lower building

6:30:46heights at the edges. Four stories along Elizabeth Street and three stories along Duke Street.

6:30:51The Guelph Junction Railway runs through the urban design master plan area generally from

6:31:04west to east influencing the phasing of the lands. Since the north parcel is independent

6:31:12from the south parcel in terms of access and servicing, this phase may develop independently

6:31:16at any time once a community planning permit has been approved. Phase two includes the

6:31:22redevelopment of the north parcel with three new buildings. A new vehicular access Elizabeth Lane

6:31:29will be built and the existing access lane to the east will be rebuilt. The northern portion

6:31:34of the park will also be developed in this phase. On the south parcel the work in phase one will

6:31:44see the demolition of the existing warehouse structure while preserving the historic factory

6:31:48building and will see stormwater and sanitary infrastructure to be built within the rail corridor.

6:31:53In phase two the west block will be developed with two large buildings and a pedestrian muse.

6:31:59Land for the enhanced schoolyard is intended to be dedicated to the school board which could

6:32:04commence improvements to the public open space. In phase three the heritage building will be

6:32:08restored and the 16 story residential building will be developed on the east block. Here on lane

6:32:15will be built in its ultimate location and the final improvements at the edge of the enhanced

6:32:20schoolyard can be completed. This phase will conclude with completion of the park including

6:32:25the rail trail extension, construction of a public square and improvements to here on street.

6:32:32The existing zoning bylaw regulations will be enforced in effect until there is a resolution

6:32:45of the appeal of the community planning permit bylaw. The existing under appeal community

6:32:50planning permit regulations are not yet in effect. The existing bylaw regulations will be

6:32:54planned for the next year. These proposed community planning permit system regulations

6:33:01are to be determined at a future community planning permit submission by the applicant.

6:33:11Based on the timeline of the woods projects it is anticipated that the community planning permit

6:33:16bylaw will be in effect when development projects are ready to proceed. Three in-person public open

6:33:23houses have occurred since June 2024 including in November 2024 and June 2025. This public feedback

6:33:31helped to shape the current urban design master plan. If you wish to be notified of any future

6:33:42revisions or decisions on these applications please email planning at gulf.ca. Thank you for

6:33:49listening that is the end of the presentation. Great thank you very much. Well if we have any

6:33:57questions or comments to you we'll get them to you and staff right after okay sounds good.

6:34:04Scott was that your first was it was that your first time at the microphone for us? Really nice to

6:34:14meet you. Is it now this is where I get in trouble how long have you been with the city? Just over a

6:34:25year I'm in trouble thank you. Okay well this you did a great job presenting for us thank you very

6:34:31much that's great. Okay we have several delegations we're looking forward to hearing from you all.

6:34:37Susan Frazen from the wood development group is first actually it looks like we have three from

6:34:44the wood development group so we have Susan Frazen, Tim Smith and Ian Panabaker and are you all coming

6:34:51as a team? Yeah okay no problem okay so yeah this is five minutes not 10 minutes

6:35:07and again you'll hear the chime at the four minute 30 second mark with the warning just before you

6:35:14hit the five minute mark so Susan over to you and every you are ready and thank you so much for

6:35:19joining us. Good evening Honorable Mayor Guthrie and members of council I'm Susan Frazen I'm

6:35:28president of wood development group and it is truly a pleasure to be here tonight to present to

6:35:33our urban design master plan consisting of 64 Duke Street 69 Huron Street a small sliver of Alice

6:35:40Street 33 35 37 39 and 45 Elizabeth Street this is a site that is how do I go back?

6:36:00This is a site that is steep in history for the past well for over 100 years it has been industrial

6:36:08the majority of this site has seen various factories on it over the years

6:36:12but the city recognized the need for residential development in 1990 and re-zoned the site in

6:36:211990 for residential recognizing the contribution that this site had the potential to give to

6:36:28downtown so while you will see that our urban design master plan we've worked on this for four years

6:36:35the reality is that our family has been reimagining this site for the past 36 years

6:36:39and there's been a lot that's changed in 36 years but one of the things that has not changed

6:36:46is the incredible complexity of this site in fact with every year it continues to become

6:36:51more and more complex it's a brownfield site that has a railway that runs right through it

6:36:58it has a private easement on it it has a historical heritage building on it

6:37:04it has an elementary school sitting adjacent to it and most significantly it is a high density

6:37:12residential site that exists in a low-rise residential neighborhood so unless you specialize

6:37:20in brownfield or heritage which we don't most people would take advantage of the high density

6:37:29and heights that the city have given us on this site and sell it to maximize their ROI

6:37:36our family and our staff chose not to we signed up for this challenge because we honestly believe

6:37:42that what we can deliver to this community and to this city on this site is better than anyone else

6:37:51one of the reasons that we believe that is because we've been accumulating properties

6:37:58throughout this neighborhood for the past number of years to ensure that this site touches all four

6:38:08corners all four streets on this block and that will allow us to open up the site to both the

6:38:17community who live there and and rent there and they can access the neighborhood and the downtown

6:38:24through this site but we also wanted to be able to welcome the community into this site because

6:38:30we believe that what we will build here would be very special we'll create new public spaces

6:38:37including a dedication of land to the catholic school board to allow them to increase their

6:38:44play yard and potentially grow that school as the community around them grows we will clean up the

6:38:51site we will green up the site and we will also help to protect their neighborhood from potential

6:38:59floods so we will try and floodproof the neighborhood as well we'll build a mix of housing units

6:39:07in both in size and in type to allow for a broader range of homeowners and tenants to be interested

6:39:16in living here we recognize that you can't you just continue to put up high rise condo

6:39:23buildings and expect that everyone is going to want to live there so we'll be very intentional

6:39:27and very careful about what it is we develop here we restore the historic building on this site to

6:39:34celebrate the history that existed within those walls and we'll do our best to reflect and compliment

6:39:43the character of the ward in the spaces that we create will it be different for sure but different

6:39:52doesn't always mean bad remember that we live in this community and we work in this community

6:39:59and we can be held accountable for what it is that we develop here thank you very much uh Susan

6:40:07any follow-up uh for Susan at this point or did you want to maybe we I can do that or I can let

6:40:14uh Tim and Ian like all from the wood development group speak and then I could do questions to all

6:40:20like to all three so that makes sense okay yeah do you mind if I do that okay perfect so yeah

6:40:25let's do that so uh Tim Smith you're next and then Ian and then and then all three of you can come

6:40:32together and get get ready for questions welcome Tim go ahead thank you Mr. Mayor um members of

6:40:40council pleasure to be here again to talk about this exciting project my name is Tim Smith I'm the

6:40:46planner for the wood development group who has been part of the team let's put this together over

6:40:51the last few years what I'd like to do is kind of build on what Scott outlined in his presentation

6:40:55and some of the things that Susan touched on to describe give you a bit of an overview if I can

6:41:00in five minutes it's a lengthy document uh an overview of the what's in the plan which really is at

6:41:06its heart a concept that has informed a set of guidelines that we expect future development to

6:41:12to adhere to um you see on this slide really just a list of those sort of key elements key

6:41:17features that we see being built on the site as Susan mentioned a mix of housing types different

6:41:24unit sizes townhouses some embedded into the base of the buildings we're restoring converting that

6:41:30historic factory building doesn't look like much today but believe me underneath that and once you

6:41:35open up the windows it's going to be quite fantastic we'll be adding two stories to that for more

6:41:40housing um a new neighborhood park uh expanded schoolyard for the sacred heart school which I'll

6:41:47talk about in a moment other public open spaces and as you heard from Scott there will be opportunities

6:41:52for some small-scale commercial and community uses that we think the community will really appreciate

6:41:59and finally as Susan said we're opening up the site bringing people into what we're creating here

6:42:05also allowing them simply to get through the site and in many ways that opening up the site I think

6:42:10will be as uh a significant a change to the neighborhood as the the development itself

6:42:15we're building here let me talk a little bit about those connections you see them in the

6:42:19orange lines here a pathway from Alice Street up through the site the crossing of the tracks

6:42:27so that people can go right up to Elizabeth Street there's a muse off of Duke Street allowing people

6:42:32to come in from that direction there'll be some private but publicly accessible streets with sidewalks

6:42:37on them you see in gray here so lots of porosity and can't forget the rail uh rail corridor um

6:42:46will have an extension of the multi-use path that one day we all hope will continue eastward

6:42:52eventually reaching all the way over to um the Guelph Innovation District uh three key open spaces

6:43:01I want to highlight here a new park in the rail corridor uh an enhancement to the Sacred Heart

6:43:09School Yard and what we're calling here on Square a new open space on here on street in front of the

6:43:14heritage building let me talk a little bit about the park here this is really going to be about

6:43:19bringing nature back into the city the idea is a heavily vegetated green space we have 50 meters

6:43:25between the future buildings on either side of the rail corridor to work with yes the tracks

6:43:30will run through it we'll keep those we're sure there's safety barriers against that but the green

6:43:35space we have on either side will be lushly planted there'll be opportunities for public art for

6:43:41calling recreation nodes where you might find a ping-pong table or or something for kids to climb on

6:43:48simply seating for people to hang out in places where we can interpret the site's heritage the

6:43:53ward's heritage you've heard so much about today the enhanced schoolyard is a really big idea we've

6:44:02had lots of discussions with the Catholic School Board about this to really see how we could actually

6:44:07not just expand the schoolyard which will be a great benefit to the students as you can appreciate

6:44:12but actually how the space that after school hours and in the summertime can actually be opened up

6:44:18and available to the community and the school board has agreed that we don't they don't need to

6:44:22build fences around the schoolyard it can be managed through landscaping to ensure that the

6:44:27kids are corralled during the school day but you can get into that space and really make it function

6:44:32like a park with flexible play play yard playground more space for basketball and other court sports

6:44:43here on square will actually be a private space privately owned but it will be landscaped and

6:44:48have amenities in it for the public as you can see from the rendering here trees will line it

6:44:54that will have seating under the trees or people can come and meet and socialize with their neighbors

6:44:59we do hope to have a cafe perhaps other uses in the base of this historic factory building

6:45:04that's spill out onto this space we may need a little bit of parking in the front to support

6:45:09those commercial uses but we also see an opportunity to remove those parking so that the space can be

6:45:16used for community events now I do need to speak about the buildings briefly and to really emphasize

6:45:21here what we've done to push the taller buildings toward the heart of the site and provide transitions

6:45:27down to the neighborhood we've varied heights they're all well under 24 stories one to 23 stories

6:45:32the remainder are at lower heights as as scott mentioned and i'll just kind of wrap up i do want

6:45:40this this image gives you a sense of how the development will blend with the neighborhood

6:45:47yeah so just just one just one just one second sorry your time is is up

6:45:56um i'm going to look to my colleagues just to just okay you've gone off screen there did the screen

6:46:03just go off can you put the screen back on yeah for me thank you so much um to my colleagues

6:46:13this is an important sort of i think is anyone as the chair i'm going to make a call just to

6:46:20allow this last slide to be talked about um does anyone want to challenge me on that

6:46:26no okay please like 20 seconds talk about this because we got to go to the next delegate okay

6:46:32go ahead and talk about this last slide thank you mr i appreciate i'd be less than 30 seconds i do

6:46:36have just a few slides but very quickly we go through them there are three images i want to

6:46:40show to really emphasize what we see as how people will experience this site and why the transition

6:46:46how the transitions and the design of the edges of the site will really contribute so the view you

6:46:51have of duke street today is this looking south i'm sorry i'm having trouble advancing the screen

6:46:58there we go um it will look something like that in the future these are renderings you have to

6:47:03take renderings with a grate of salt but what we've done is line duke street with three-story

6:47:07townhouses and then if you look at the rail corridor today imagine it being widened lushly planted

6:47:14and lined with buildings with units that face the space with winding paths and and so forth

6:47:20and then this is the favorite view really this is what looks like from here on street today

6:47:25but imagine something that looks like this with that restored building more green space

6:47:30taller buildings in the heart of the site at a distance and really a lot more space for the

6:47:35community to meet and gather and have a higher quality of life perfect thank you very much

6:47:42for wrapping that up i appreciate it uh go and take your seat and ian's going to come up and

6:47:49then all three of you can be ready for any questions okay so ian over to you um i gave a

6:47:53little bit of grace there but please know no more grace for the evening you got it you got to get

6:47:58in in your five minutes okay go for it thank you your worship members of council staff and

6:48:04members of the audience i'm just going to i'm trying to kind of try and truncate what i said

6:48:08because there's been a lot that i could repeat but just obviously council tonight is being asked to

6:48:14support the uh the urban design master plan which is a requirement of the secondary plan for these

6:48:18large sites within the area and at 10 acres almost we are the largest of those areas to be planned

6:48:25in this kind of collaborative way there has been a lot of work to date to get here

6:48:34a number of years multiple pre-consultations with staff and agencies an extensive community

6:48:40engagement program and along the way the navigation of provincial and city policy changes and

6:48:45evolutions including the opa 106 that the city undertook for the downtown heights and the

6:48:52mentioned downtown cpps developments over the last year this uh decision tonight this decision to

6:49:00support is the first step believe it or not in us solidifying a vision which then creates a whole

6:49:07myriad of projects for us to start really implementing the the site site-wide environmental

6:49:14and um other audits and approvals have to be undertaken for the infrastructure renewals

6:49:19the parks and school agreements for these open space land dedications and concepts

6:49:24all leading to individual block applications the site had a lot of input and analysis i won't go

6:49:33into it we've had a great team helping us to do this and set us up for success in the future there's

6:49:39been a lot of research to done to actually illustrate this to you what's possible and we know what's

6:49:45practical we uh as scott alluded to we had three um public meetings we kicked off in june 24 two

6:49:53years ago the first uh of that was an introductory session and a visioning session with the community

6:49:59and while we didn't show a concept that night we did talk about the need for additional density

6:50:03and heights that we'd be seeking and with all the events that we did there was an online component

6:50:08there was surveying and commenting periods much longer than those events the second meeting uh was

6:50:16in november of 24 which we did present a concept and took folks through the rationale for the

6:50:23density there's a tiny little picture there in the corner of all the inputs that go into

6:50:28reconfiguring a site like this susan mentioned them about brownfields and working in a railway

6:50:33corridor and replacing trunk infrastructure and making commitments to creating great public space

6:50:40and gifting public space all that goes into factor into the land value for this project we do not

6:50:46have access to brownfield community improvement plans we don't have access to downtown investments

6:50:51programs for replacing infrastructure all of it's being borne by the density and height

6:50:58but we did show a 24-story building in the center and the basic structure that tim alluded to in

6:51:02terms of opening up to all corners and that led to a second consultation session with a revised plan

6:51:14that you basically see today documented in the urban design master plan this one incorporated the opa

6:51:20106 heights that had happened in the meantime we did revise the massing and and move it slightly

6:51:28further west towards downtown it helped with shadowing and some of the the relationships between

6:51:35the heritage building and the the project on the north side of the tracks on elizabeth street got

6:51:45enlarged because of the direction the council set with opa 106 following that meeting there was

6:51:53protracted period to get to today we added 39 elizabeth street gratefully it allows us to have

6:52:00a consistent um frontage on that street that's now incorporated in the document we clarified and

6:52:07expanded the the land dedications and park distribution over the meantime we had been

6:52:13talking about a shared space between the school and the park department that became unwieldy

6:52:19and we are now showing clear dedications of lands for the neighborhood park and the gift to the school

6:52:27for which they can then operate and program these with our assistance and support with clarity and

6:52:33operation the flood proofing concept that was mentioned was included in the next iteration that

6:52:39you see and we've incorporated the updated policies on cpps and heritage districts and things like that

6:52:45so in summary we're very excited to present this tonight we believe it conforms to the secondary

6:52:51plan intent it supports the city's growth management objectives and ambitions and housing objectives

6:52:57it sets the stage for remedying a very large brownfield in the center of town and that's my time

6:53:05no no problem thank you very much to all three of you so maybe i could ask all three of you to

6:53:12maybe just come up to the microphone and then if there's any questions from my colleagues uh i

6:53:17know counselor downer i believe i saw you go up am i right i was going to ask about go ahead i was

6:53:24going to ask about the timelines but you put that up and but while you're up there i'll say

6:53:27congratulations on getting to this milestone well done thank you is there any questions i got karan

6:53:35and uh goller echoing those comments thanks for the sticking with us along this journey

6:53:44you've got such a complicated site everything from brownfields and heritage to parkland to

6:53:51low density to medium density and high density just just quite a complex site and the landscape has

6:53:59shifted considerably from beginning to today policy changes affordable housing incentives

6:54:07development charges parkland dedication provincial regulations with respect to

6:54:14incentives and infrastructure so much has shifted is there is there anything that is holding you

6:54:22back from proceeding like is there still that instability in the market and in the planning

6:54:27landscape that would prevent you from moving forward on this project in the timelines that

6:54:34you've established that's question number one and question number two is there anything you've

6:54:39heard in the policies locally that even tonight we talked about the ward west heritage conservation

6:54:45district is there anything we're doing right now at city hall that you have any concerns about

6:54:51as you move forward with the project while the landscape is still shifting around you

6:55:03through mr mayor i'll jump in there's a lot in that question it comes down to confidence

6:55:09there is a lack of confidence in the market uh real that has happened over the last uh at the

6:55:16time that we've been doing this project we were far more confident about starting four or five years

6:55:21ago than we are today when you see um de-escalation of prices real prices in the world when costs

6:55:31haven't come down for all manner of reasons that's what's happened in the in the blockage of market

6:55:38housing and that has to that has to work its way out still there's kind of predictions of a couple

6:55:45of years out will be in a more positive market again and uh as a group we need to collectively

6:55:52get a sense of that confidence building because we have a couple of years of work to do before we

6:55:57can actually entertain the cpbs applications that would have to come through we have to

6:56:04like you saw fusion do at metalworks we have to take the site apart and reconstruct

6:56:10trunk infrastructure that cuts through what was was ferguson street that went through the through

6:56:16the site and that's years in the in the works and actually getting the record the site conditions

6:56:22in place to entertain partners in the various projects so it's it's that's that will be the

6:56:29sense that there's there's a building confidence in uh guelph in the economy and in the market that

6:56:36will that will have us start going that said there's still a lot of planning work that actually has

6:56:43to happen from today to get some of these base agreements in place with the partners and um

6:56:50build that understanding before we can actually have development partners in place as well so

6:56:56we're not we're not idle when this is happening okay thank you for that summary and I really

6:57:02appreciated the opening comments from Susan about the legacy part of this that you know you over 30

6:57:09years you you really want to make sure that this project um it is successful because it I from what

6:57:16I've seen in my 20 years on council this is the singular largest kind of redevelopment in this area

6:57:24so it's quite a legacy piece and thanks for sticking with us I hope you'll stick with us a

6:57:30little bit longer get the shovels in the ground cranes in the sky thanks great thank you very much

6:57:39council goller is next okay uh and yeah and just just a reminder and I'm going to you as well

6:57:45councillor caton after goller and just a reminder that uh this is like the the urban design plan

6:57:55so if there's anything about that too just make sure we're referencing that okay council goller

6:58:00thank you through worship to uh to all of you thank you so much for for coming here today I'm

6:58:06presenting this plan it's I've mainly heard a good thanks from the community uh that are looking

6:58:12forward to to this development uh there was one one um concern resident that I wanted to bring

6:58:18some other questions about um in terms of what was proposed originally and what is proposed now

6:58:25can you clarify for me has there been a significant change I I know that some of the buildings moved

6:58:30around has the density increase decrease and the total heights um are we seeing more than what was

6:58:37originally proposed just for for clarity so what you saw in the original proposal that was up on

6:58:44the screen earlier we presented 24 stories uh right adjacent to the heritage building one of the

6:58:50things that we heard from the community was that that is a drastic change from five stories to 24

6:58:57stories it seems it is a lot and it seems like a lot um and so we took that information back we

6:59:04reconfigured the site in the process of reconfiguring the site the city also went through a downtown

6:59:09height study which then gave us greater density on the site um and in order to help the city achieve

6:59:17their downtown goals for um you know both residents and jobs um we made some changes to the site to

6:59:28both reduce the dramatic change between the five and the 24 stories um and also center

6:59:35the 23 story building that we now have on there um closer to the center of the building so that we

6:59:41also changed any of the shadowing on the site um so yeah there have been some changes there

6:59:47reflection of the density and the heights that the city gave us um as well as listening to

6:59:53community feedback and responding to that okay okay I really appreciate that clarification so

6:59:58so the changes were to to reduce the height a little bit and also to shift it away from uh

7:00:04from the edges to okay I really appreciate that uh for the uh for the shadow studies uh it points at

7:00:1110 a.m. 4 p.m. and then are those set by the city that the the times for those studies and then

7:00:18the fact that they were in the uh spring summer and fall and not in the winter is that is that a

7:00:23city restriction that that you were following or did you sort of you know pick times that worked well

7:00:30through you mr. mayor um yeah and frankly I'm any scots helped answer this because we did those

7:00:34shutters days a while ago but my my recollection is that those are the key times that they look at

7:00:40they may also look at other times in particularly in the summer like it's six o'clock but we did

7:00:46focus on that 10 to 4 period which I think is is the primary concern winter time December

7:00:52shadows are long everywhere it's a little hard to really you know evaluate a project based on

7:00:58winter shadows but I I did want to point out that I didn't have a chance to kind of go through those

7:01:02tiny little diagrams but you know we were careful and this is why with the north parcel one other

7:01:07change on the north parcel was what we had before 10 and 12 story buildings we now have one

7:01:1319 story buildings that rather than having two taller buildings we recognize pulling that in going

7:01:18a little taller if anything had less of a shadow we impact on those backyards and those impacts

7:01:23are very minor on a handful of properties and only in the morning so afternoon shadows really

7:01:29are well away from all private properties and none of the neighboring streets surrounding

7:01:33streets will be will be shadowed during during the daytime okay I really appreciate that and

7:01:39lastly with the wind study I noticed that there was a good section that talked about it

7:01:43how far does the wind study go I mean could you clarify will this have impact on the surrounding

7:01:48streets the wind created by by the buildings based through you mr. mayor based on the wind

7:01:54study that was done does not significant impacts that are expected on the streets or even within

7:02:01the site and this is part of the massing approach having those transitions putting taller buildings

7:02:06onto a podium really helps to mitigate wind impacts on the windy days I will point out though and

7:02:13you know at least when we go into a community planning permit application we will need to

7:02:17submit more detailed wind studies at that point for individual buildings so things will be looked

7:02:22at more closely then and measures may have to be incorporated into the design of the building to

7:02:27to mitigate an impact so we did a kind of high level initial study to understand what we could do

7:02:33with massing to mitigate any impacts detailed design will need to look at more closely at

7:02:38individual companies and their context perfect thank you very much for that and through your

7:02:43worship just one last question in terms of the facing I saw that face one you're removing the

7:02:49buildings and then face to you start building them what are your expected timelines for for you to

7:02:55get through face one the demolition part for us to see the face to begin through through you mr.

7:03:07mayor it largely will depend on you know how things go with the approval processes with the city

7:03:14change in market but we're looking like two to three years so we when we were talking about

7:03:21you know the market and and the fact that we've got it we're in a down cycle right now

7:03:25you know time is on our side in in that sense because we're coming to you with our urban design

7:03:29master plan now during the down cycle we're hopeful that as we do all of the work behind

7:03:34the scenes to get this project you know out of the ground that as we're you know getting there

7:03:41that the market will also return but you know even simply like things like the cpp being held up

7:03:47that you know plays havoc with our timelines as well okay okay and just so that I understand

7:03:54two to three years before you get into into the face where you're building but in the meantime

7:03:58you would be doing the demolition of the the existing warehouses is that correct or would

7:04:02you wait two to three years and then start the demolitions yeah a lot like I said a lot of it

7:04:07will depend on the timelines in the market um we I mean obviously us holding on to this site

7:04:14as I talked about before every year that we wait in this development this site becomes more complex

7:04:20you know the environmental um um regulations change and become more stringent um there are

7:04:28more stringent rules around rail um there are more rules around heritage buildings so every

7:04:33year we wait this site becomes more and more difficult to develop so it's not our intention

7:04:37to wait um but there will be lots of things that um barriers that we have to overcome in order to

7:04:42develop okay okay thank you for that thank you worship all right thank you uh kateen and then

7:04:48boosted up thank you through you mr mayor um first off I really like it I think it's a very

7:04:56cool concept I love the the kind of market common area and um I I've always moved too well from

7:05:06bigger cities so I'm not height adverse um I think that you've kind of done it in a very thoughtful

7:05:12way and I like the step how it steps up um I have questions about just the accessibility

7:05:18through this site I I saw within the the design that there was kind of like meandering pathways

7:05:24which looks really nice design wise but accessibility wise it's it's a lot better for

7:05:29folks to just kind of a straight path through and maybe have offshoots that are a little bit more

7:05:33wandering so I'm just wondering if that's something that you've considered when you kind of think of

7:05:37your flow through throughout the site thank you uh through you mr mayor it's a counselor

7:05:47it's um it's something that we've spent a lot of time on thinking about uh currently there's um

7:05:55flood lines that we need to maintain of the buildings outside of the flood um

7:06:01height and so some of the meandering paths that you're seeing us design are actually

7:06:08minor ramps to get us up and down to various levels because of the need to raise or lower the

7:06:14the habitable floor heights this is something that's happened late in the day is when we did that flood

7:06:19analysis and realized that the project on the Duke Street side could actually act as a levy and

7:06:25prevent everything eastward from actually being part of the flood area in the in the uh the future

7:06:34it changes our it will change our approach to some of the levels

7:06:39and grades inside the project itself if that's accomplished and so grading actually becomes

7:06:44much more simpler if if we can accomplish this initial levy of the floodway in the first phase of

7:06:51that south project and so it's it's a work in progress um but we're we're keenly aware and

7:06:59looking at the grades constantly some of those meandering paths are to accomplish accessibility

7:07:07on those grades i might just just add if i made that uh as Ian described the the site basically

7:07:15in the south parcel kind of comes up to deal with the flooding issue and the rail yard obviously is

7:07:20not moving and stays down so in particular we worked a lot with our landscape architect to

7:07:24really understand how we can have an accessible crossing safe and accessible crossing so there

7:07:30will certainly be a little zigzagging there there'll be stairs for those who want to use stairs

7:07:34but uh we gave a lot about there were i think a few back and forths to get that right okay thanks

7:07:42and i i'm sure i'm sure you'll be working with staff over stuff like that too but overall i think

7:07:47it's a great concept great thank you and last is busitil please thank you and through the

7:07:55marion to the delegations you've come a long way since the first public meeting that i went to

7:08:00so awesome and i will echo what uh councillor Caton said just love the design i did have a

7:08:06question i'm a little bit confused maybe i'm just tired it's been a long day um when you talk about

7:08:12and yes sacred hard needs additional playground space my kids have been there before it's not the

7:08:18greatest um i'm curious because it talks about an agreement between the wellington catholic

7:08:25district school board in the city for maintenance and program and things like that um was there an

7:08:30exploration about giving that strip to the city of guelph i think of gateway school that has uh

7:08:37you know um school board land and city land and programming space there or waverly or a whole bunch

7:08:44of other places can i was a little bit surprised by that yeah through mr mayor to the counselor

7:08:51this this has evolved since the initial unveiling of it a couple of of sessions ago

7:08:58um we had talked uh with parks and with the school board about an uh an actual shared

7:09:06facility where during the day it would be largely off limits and controlled by the school board

7:09:12and during the the evening and off off season it was fully public park and for which there would be

7:09:18this agreement for maintenance and operations of it uh that's different than some of the more

7:09:25suburban parks where you have school board lands and city lands adjacent but not overlapping

7:09:32and what it came down to was um parks came back to us with the need for um the technical need for

7:09:40the park dedication to be fully accessible i.e. like available to the public 24 hours a day they

7:09:47couldn't deal with the the legality if you like of receiving park land dedication that was not

7:09:56accessible 24 hours a day and hence the separation so where we were talking earlier about that

7:10:02strip of land contributing to a bigger park which would be shared it's now being given to the school

7:10:08board with the same intent that it's actually a recreational facility for the community off hours

7:10:13and off season and so there is an expectation that there's a a form of agreement between the

7:10:20city and the school board for that facility thank you okay and actually at clauson we'll

7:10:32bring us home here go ahead thank you mr. mayor and thank you for the presentations

7:10:38i liked a lot about the a lot a lot about it it looks really exciting from a space that i think is

7:10:46as we all know quite underutilized by the public it's not accessible really

7:10:50to something that is is going to bring a lot of new availabilities to the public so i i'm excited

7:10:57about that but i'm gonna get to my question um there were a couple of of core pieces of

7:11:01correspondence and i received a few emails from residents concerned about the heights and the

7:11:07massing and in one i think in one piece of the correspondence it's attached to the package there

7:11:14was a comment about the heights and if or maybe it was an email i'm not sure and i think that on

7:11:22page 37 you outline um when apartment buildings are greater than four stories they shall generally

7:11:29incorporate one to two story grade related units um and their comment was um they really liked the

7:11:36metalworks and how the metalwork towns on either side contribute to the streetscape and feels very

7:11:42walkable and very accessible and so that you don't have you know single story residential

7:11:48followed by you know a massing of a wall that is accommodating a 24-story 23-story building

7:11:55so i was just wondering if you could could speak to that a little bit um to talk about what that

7:12:00might feel like um at this street level uh through you mr. mayor to the counselor um yeah we we agree

7:12:10that metalworks looks lovely it faces out on the street um in in a beautiful way that helps make it

7:12:16feel uh very much like it fits into the residential neighborhood and so we took note of that um and

7:12:21it was one of the things that we incorporated into our plan so i don't know if they're misreading the

7:12:25plan um but if you look at um duke street um there are three stories running down there of you know

7:12:32townhouses along the rail we've tried to incorporate the same anywhere we face out onto the community

7:12:38we've tried to keep it as low rise as possible including on elizabeth street um to really try

7:12:44and keep that same feel of residential neighborhood and our tall buildings have been pushed into the

7:12:49center of the site to create that cascading effect down to the street that really um you know in 10

7:12:58acres um it really does kind of swallow up those big height buildings that are in the center um so

7:13:06i don't know if they're misreading the drawing or misunderstanding it um but we agree metalworks

7:13:11faces out into the street lovely it's two and a half to three and a half stories there

7:13:15ours are three so we we tried to capture that as best we could thank you i appreciate that response

7:13:25with that um nothing oh just i'm circling uh one one question from uh from councillor

7:13:31karan and then we'll go we just have three more delegations everybody just remember okay go ahead

7:13:36is a really quick question what would you like us to call it should we call it plant number two

7:13:40or should we be calling it midtown village what do you what do you folks call it through you mr

7:13:47man thanks thanks for the question we we um very carefully called it plant number two

7:13:54midtown village is our corporate name for the holdings the land holdings and that's what staff

7:13:59have picked up on because that is the legal ownership title of the property but it's plant

7:14:04number two to us as a working title to to eventual um building names let us know if there's a name

7:14:15change all right thank you very much we appreciate the three of you very much for coming and delegating

7:14:21mike darman from guelph community community for active transportation g cat i bet you we know

7:14:30what you're gonna say we appreciate you mike thank you for sticking around for the whole uh

7:14:37whole night and then michelle i see you oh you see you you're in the wings coming down next

7:14:42mike over to you um mayor guthrie city council and city staff my name is mike darman and i'm

7:14:49advocacy co-chair for the guelph community for active transportation g cat is is pleased to finally

7:14:55see the woods to plant to at this stage of the planning application process as the walking biking

7:15:01transit and neighborhood connectivity is finally being revealed through this urban design master plan

7:15:07i could basically read verbatim the introduction and vision for woods on the first page because it

7:15:12encompasses an exciting and carefully crafted urban design plan along with a once in a generation

7:15:17opportunity to transform the legacy industrial site into a new neighborhood that will integrate well

7:15:23with the historic ward neighborhood and our downtown personally i love the same patrick's ward

7:15:29and not just because i'm irish i back through it almost every day on my way to my son's on my grand

7:15:35kids house i'm quite familiar with the woods to plant site as it sits right beside where my grand

7:15:40kids attend school at at sacred heart and we ride our bikes or walk to school together quite often

7:15:47i'm excited to hear that the playground area in parkland will be expanded through the land

7:15:51transfer from the woods development and that we can explore more areas safely after school with

7:15:55the increased connectivity throughout the development affordable housing is arguably the most talked

7:16:01about concern of citizens of guelph gcat looks at development which by design and location make

7:16:06overall expenses cheaper by enabling a car light or car free lifestyle and more active transportation

7:16:12schools you couldn't be closer for catholic and king george public school is just a 15 minute

7:16:18walk up here in the street and up to 100 steps coffee shops including the ward neighborhood

7:16:24double rainbow cafe suga mercado for food and canada's smallest bar will be more accessible via

7:16:29brilliant new cut through connection to ala street and of course our downtown will be a major

7:16:34attraction to many other businesses that will benefit from this development's density and walk

7:16:38ability local and regional transit are also within a few minutes walk and with more frequent

7:16:43go trains including on weekends i took the the new 20 minute no stop go train to kitchens on

7:16:50saturday the work and pleasure possibilities are endless i kind of stress enough the importance of

7:16:56what this development will enable through the implementation of a protected minimum active

7:17:00transportation network grid similar to what to what the iron horse trail has achieved in k w in

7:17:06attracting high quality high density residential and commercial developments along its transit and

7:17:12protected active transportation minimum grid systems we can achieve achieve similar in guelph

7:17:18and extending our primary active transportation rail trail is one of the lowest cost safest and most

7:17:24enjoyable ways to achieve it when protected minimum grid networks are connected by safe

7:17:29crossings and connected to places where people need to shop work and play they will encourage

7:17:34people to try alternative mobility options like walking and biking transit the woods development

7:17:40design encourages this lifestyle shift within and expands active mobility options outward in many

7:17:47directions trail development i've delegated so many times for for an extension of the existing north

7:17:53of downtown trans canada g to g g ggr rail trail with the recent council approval of the macdonnell

7:18:00road and bridges structures ea along with the new ward to downtown bridge we now have the gateway

7:18:05to the extension from the macdonnell bridge to arthur street and with a much improved trail crossing

7:18:11design continuing from woods from the woods to plant on duke street we will have a more direct

7:18:17safer enjoyable active transportation connection to the ward to here on street the himico site and

7:18:23and the gid are just really up the tracks i would remind council that the current city budget for

7:18:29all new trail development is completely out of the tenure budget cycle forecast this development

7:18:33will get us to here on street but to continue the network trail connection to himico and gid

7:18:38we will need your support to fund this expansion to victoria road area we are working closely with

7:18:44woods on our vision for active transportation in out and throughout the development area and extremely

7:18:49pleased to see many of our ideas being incorporated but also thrilled to see even more than we could

7:18:53not envision like that 24 7 accessible public path and mallet street into the center of development

7:18:59enabled by woods g cat is fully in support of the staff recommendations to support the master plan

7:19:06i hope you agree that this is being very thoughtfully planned to integrate well into the historic

7:19:10ward neighborhood and will vastly improve this former industrial legacy site into a vibrant new

7:19:15community overall this development will make our city continue to achieve its ranking as one of the

7:19:20most livable cities to live work and play in i am truly excited to see it move to this stage of the

7:19:26planning application process thanks thanks mike thank you very very much so any uh any questions

7:19:35for mike today there is not so well done thank you very much thanks and uh michelle bowman's on

7:19:42her way down and then bringing us to the end is barbara and scott in the front row there here

7:19:47in the wings okay the two of you so michelle welcome again and over to you whenever you're ready okay

7:19:57is this working yet so as we have heard there are many advantages to the pros midtown

7:20:04village or plant to an active transport corridor a larger schoolyard built within the city's

7:20:11footprint and one of my favorites all the native plantings however the generally positive

7:20:19public reception in the community cited in the staff report largely came before the increased

7:20:26building heights so one b um building one b moved closer to existing housing

7:20:33one c doubled from eight to nineteen stories the heights fronting on duke street large part

7:20:41doubled from two to three stories two a from nine to fourteen and two b from sixteen to twenty three

7:20:49um so we're glad that the twenty four decreased to sixteen but there were a lot of increases

7:20:55as well when the newest plan was presented in the i live or lived in the ward group not by me by the

7:21:03way um there were about 40 very negative comments and 10 positive ones and the positive ones came

7:21:10from outside the ward so concerns included the height increases low demand for condos traffic

7:21:18loss of heritage and affordability all of which i'll talk about but i'd like to start with the park

7:21:24land so um proposed building 2d sits on land that was slated for parks and open space in the downtown

7:21:33secondary plan um so building it would add to our parkland deficit instead 0.4 acres was donated

7:21:42to the school which residents appreciate um and the rest of the half acre came from required setbacks

7:21:52so in the bylaw 2071710 b um it says an 800 unit development would require about

7:22:011.6 hectares of parkland but they're only providing 0.9 and so that's 56 of what's required

7:22:11the existing schoolyard makes up the rest to get to the minimum requirement

7:22:18um so as i mentioned there's concern that condos are not in demand we see in bc that the federal

7:22:24government is buying empty condos traffic was also a big concern for local residents um feeding

7:22:34on to elizabeth is manageable but feeding on to huron which is directly adjacent to the school is

7:22:40problematic and i'm not sure about the idea not to fence um a schoolyard that is directly adjacent

7:22:48to a laneway that um hundreds of residents will be using um main four commercial spaces are also

7:22:57important for a walkable neighborhood there's very minimal one cafe and i think one other um

7:23:07so i was glad to see staff are looking to secure more non-residential uses but i think we should

7:23:13ensure that these make it into the final plan so we heard about the ward heritage conservation

7:23:19district earlier and um this plan doesn't conform to some of those recommendations so again heritage

7:23:29plan emphasizes commercial uses which are traditional in the ward it directs that a maximum

7:23:38height of one or two stories or suggests hopes that there'll just be one or two stories adjacent

7:23:45to streets like duke and huron um and the last and maybe most important thing is that the ward

7:23:53residents care deeply that the neighborhood remain affordable for the working class that built it

7:24:00so wealth affordable housing strategy says we need 33 percent of all new builds to be affordable

7:24:07and that definition is the provinces um which is only affordable for the top 40 percent of our city

7:24:18so um i think the community is asking that the developers make as much of these as many of

7:24:28these units as affordable as possible and i think it's a fair ask that if the developers say they

7:24:35just can't meet this they they can't make it work with higher levels of affordable units that it's

7:24:43fair for us to ask about their profit margins so show us how it's not possible to get more affordable

7:24:52units in this development um but i'd like to end where i started and that there is lots of advantages

7:25:00to this development thank you okay thank you is there any follow-up questions for this delegate

7:25:09there isn't so thank you very much and last is barbara man and scott frederick on behalf of the

7:25:15ward residents association come on down thank you go again and thank you for having us and thank you

7:25:31for all the hard work that you guys have done with the community and with staff um michelle mentioned

7:25:36a lot of things that we've heard and we hear often about developments so i'm going to throw some

7:25:41some ideas for solutions at it while this has a 1.2 spaces per unit of parking which is more than

7:25:49the minimum that's required it still doesn't mean that as we've said to you over and over people

7:25:55move here from cities like montreal they move here from toronto and they end up buying a car

7:26:00so what we're saying to you today is that the leadership of guelph which is in front of us

7:26:06has a couple years to fix our public transit and bring it up to the state that is expected for this

7:26:12day and age if you're looking at kitchens i don't know if you've seen their transit hub that they're

7:26:17building but it's incredible and it's our time to join into that any of us who've been anywhere else

7:26:23in the world we come home and go i'm going to get on the bus and then we go but it's going to be

7:26:28such a hassle to get where i'm going and that also means that i think it's up to the developers

7:26:34to start demanding that now as well so that that doesn't create the chaos that we all know is going

7:26:41to come as michelle was just describing about congestion about parking problems in in a neighborhood

7:26:49that's already very very challenged uh the second part is about the heights that is a huge concern

7:26:56because the plan has changed a lot but another idea was how about what we in ontario call micro

7:27:02units to bring the height down but what everybody else in europe new york city etc considers a normal

7:27:09smile apartment um i think these are things that we can be looking at to try and bring

7:27:15breast practices to guelph to negate some of the challenges that we see in the future

7:27:24so i'm talking about the parkland now um sorry we're pleased that um the dedication

7:27:34i thought it was more than a minimum but michelle thought it was less i don't have to look at the

7:27:38numbers again but it's good to have linear parks it's also important to have larger tracks and

7:27:44accommodate sports field which we're short of and we're losing opportunities to create that

7:27:49um and on the eco park rail trail this is most of the parkland dedication and it's about 50 meters

7:27:59wide including the guelph junction railway right of way which is about 20 meters wide the drawings

7:28:06show this corridor to be mostly fenced off this means that possibly up to half of the eco park

7:28:13will be fenced off from public access now currently there's no fence and is free access to the whole

7:28:19corridor and have been for many decades uh we would like to see these fences to be as close to

7:28:26the rail line as possible we could take as an example the kent street rail corridor or even better

7:28:33the trans canada trail that's parallel to uh dufferin street um that seems to have worked

7:28:40perfectly safely and so i don't see why we couldn't have that kind of set back to the fence and then

7:28:48we'd have much larger uh public space available it's not much of a public space that's fenced off

7:28:55and you can't go there and that is it okay um one thing that i'm very confident about having met

7:29:03one of the tenants at nine elizabeth street is that well the affordability is a challenge with this

7:29:10the accessibility of the units i think is going to be above standard because i understand that

7:29:15that tenant had took five years to find somewhere where she could shower with in her wheelchair

7:29:22and that um susan and her team has asked her to be a consultant on these on the development with

7:29:30this the affordability part is huge our neighborhood is known for being affordable from rent gear to

7:29:37income through to luxury accommodation and that's one of the big things that i fear with this is

7:29:42that there won't be that within this partial community uh within the ward and i hope that

7:29:48that's something that can be looked to and we we keep reminding you we have one of the oldest

7:29:52best examples at victor davis park right on neve street great thank you both thank you very much

7:30:01is there any follow-up uh questions for the representatives from the award residents association

7:30:08and nobody thank you again all right everybody it is back to us there is a recommendation

7:30:17for this midtown village concept plan be supported um i would imagine the counselors would love to

7:30:28maybe do that okay i'll go clausen and and galler i will move in second that is there anything more

7:30:36i'm again this is this is an urban design master plan it's not like the applications we had earlier

7:30:40at all um all that stuff comes way later as the staff and the proponents both said so this is just

7:30:47saying yep they're on the right track right but all the detailed stuff comes later so is there

7:30:52anything about this that we need to say anything more on call her thank you through worship i have

7:31:02a couple follow-up questions for step for staff because we did ask the developer but i just wanted

7:31:06to verify just confirmation from you that the the wind impact the shadow studies

7:31:13and they were all done in accordance with the city guidelines and then they meet your requirements

7:31:18is that is that correct that is correct uh those precise dates that the applicant identified are

7:31:28also within our terms of reference for sun and shadow studies with the city of guelph so okay yeah

7:31:36just wanted to clarify that that um and the the traffic impact study i believe that there was a

7:31:40reference to a baseline in 1995 okay can you can you help me understand um when we when we look at

7:31:47that what did we use a such an early date for for for the baseline um just so that i that i understand

7:31:56that you know that doesn't fully meet the city's requirements um the traffic study and you we believe

7:32:02i just need the verbal confirmation so they would have completed their uh traffic study

7:32:07requirements in accordance with the requirements that were provided with the direction and guidance

7:32:10given by our transportation engineers and transportation planning staff in house so i would

7:32:16have to speak to our transportation planners in house to get a precise answer on that but i

7:32:21could certainly get back to you okay no but that is right i mean they're following your

7:32:24requirements i i appreciate that um and as each phase gets built and each building gets built will

7:32:30there be more detailed studies to confirm that the streets can indeed take that capacity that's

7:32:35correct okay okay so one at a time um and lastly the question about parkland will that be addressed

7:32:42when does that get addressed and when does the parkland dedication when do we confirm that we're

7:32:48getting what we require in terms of whether it is green space or in new payments at what

7:32:54stage of the process do we confirm that so we will take the parkland dedication as the phase

7:33:06has come in and we will ensure that the overall parkland um based on the entire site um is received

7:33:12ultimately but it would be assumed to be taken um within each phase okay and where there's not enough

7:33:19green space available then the city would take payment in lieu is that correct that's correct

7:33:25okay okay i really just wanted to to appreciate that and i'm just you worship comments if i may

7:33:31um i i know that projects like this can be divisive when there's a big change in the community but

7:33:37i i ultimately believe that the work that this developer is doing between putting up the the

7:33:43flood barriers to get a large portion of the work out of the flood plain is going to be very positive

7:33:50as the active transportation advocates mentioned i really appreciate that they're bringing in the

7:33:55connection from the downtown all the way to here in street i think that's going to be a very big

7:34:00positive for for the community um and i i like the thoughtfulness that they have taken to to

7:34:07include the more apartments into the word which ultimately will increase affordability um i think

7:34:14that it is it is well designed and well thought through um and i'm happy to support this uh

7:34:20design guidelines great thank you councillor Goller can i call the the vote then on the support for

7:34:30this urban design master plan great i'm going to do that right now um all i'm going to say is um i love

7:34:39it there you go so is there anybody against nobody that's unanimous all the best in the next steps