Staff to finalize the proposed Vacant Home Tax By-law, as described in the Affordable Housing Policy Program – Vacant Home Tax By-law report…

56:00we've been finding the fact that there's a rent gap payment is makes a strong disincentive for a

56:05landlord not willing to replace say a broken faucet for five months they're going to want to

56:13replace that faucet right away and bring the tenant back into the unit so that the rent gap

56:19has tremendous value in our opinion for the bylaws. Thank you and I'm just going to assume that staff

56:25has noted that so I won't bring it up as a question later I appreciate that. The other question I had

56:30for you is you had made reference to a strong tenant compensation and I was wondering if you could

56:36unpack that further please. What we've been finding in Toronto Hamilton is that they have a

56:42compensation focus that covers the rent gap very similar to the rental replacement bylaw

56:48that staff has spoken about which is the difference between what the tenant was paying and what they

56:53are paying after they've been displaced and so that is a strong tenant compensation focus.

57:01What some municipalities were missing like such as Hamilton after they produced their report they

57:07realized moving expenses are a gap so now they're introducing moving expenses as part of the tenant

57:13compensation focus. Mississauga in their rental replacement bylaw conversations this year is

57:18now introducing a moving expense focus and Mississauga's overall bylaw has both the rent

57:29gap payment and the moving expenses piece and so that's a strong tenant compensation package.

57:35What they also insist is that the moving company is insured as well as part of that compensation

57:45package. I also want to take this time briefly just to say the rental replacement bylaw is an

57:51important piece London doesn't have it and what they've been finding is that those who cannot

57:58go through renovate people through the bylaw are then asking for conversions and demolitions

58:03in another way and the fact that you're introducing a rental replacement bylaw

58:09prevents that from happening where they then go to the to the plan committee for approval they

58:15get denied then they go to the Ontario Land Tribunal and hopefully win so a rental replacement

58:20bylaw is an important step because both of these bylaws go hand in hand. The only piece that I have

58:25concerned about with the rental replacement bylaw is that the unit has to be affordable for 10 years

58:31or when the tenant leaves and I'm hoping that we're talking about the latter that not not earlier

58:37you know point which is but but the latter of which 10 years or when the tenant leaves because

58:43otherwise it paints a huge target on the tenant's household it creates a strong incentive for that

58:50landlord to evict that tenant there and then making that unit no longer affordable so I just

58:55want to have that clarification from the staff reports. Thank you very much chef for what you've

59:02presented the last question and I might actually ask it again of another delegate this is a new area

59:10of law or bylaw I suppose is a better way of putting it and I gather that we are able to adjust

59:19based on what we are seeing in different municipalities and I presume that you are

59:26seeing substantial differences right across Ontario and working towards something of a template

59:32that would work across the province. We've seen I would say the major cities that have been identified

59:41as hubs for rent of victors they are including a tenant compensation focus

59:46and other municipalities are not but what the template has is that it's a license program

59:57there's third party determination that vacant possession is necessary there's an educational

1:00:02component which is what you have here as well the only difference between what we've been seeing

1:00:07recently and what staff have proposed is the tenant compensation part. Thank you and thank you to

1:00:14the advocate because he's center for tenants. Thank you. Okay thank you I got Karon and then I got

1:00:20Guller. All of my questions have been addressed other than you did say you had an additional

1:00:25slide on the I think the rental replacement and wondered if there was any content there that you

1:00:29wanted to add for our benefit. The only content I had with regards to the rental placement is

1:00:36they're using a similar formula that's the 3% formula and it's not reflective of the vacancy

1:00:43rates of affordable units and so you want to make sure that the vacancy rate reflects the

1:00:48affordable units in the city. Secondly the other piece is that the unit has to be remain

1:00:56affordable for 10 years or until the tenant vacates and so I hope the reading of the of that bylaw means

1:01:04that whatever whatever you know it's not the earlier of but the later of in other words you know

1:01:13that that unit will remain affordable for 10 years at the very least otherwise you're the the if it's

1:01:21if it's the earlier then it paints a target on the tenant where the landlord is looking at the

1:01:26tenant and realizes they're paying affordable rent they only have to take steps to try to

1:01:30evict them and then that unit will no longer be affordable and I think that defeats the intention

1:01:36of that rip rental replacement bylaw. Very helpful thank you. And Gower. Thank you three I worship.

1:01:43Thank you for the presentation. My question is actually about when you were just speaking about

1:01:48are there other municipalities that are doing that that are tracking to see what the rent is? I'm

1:01:53just thinking logistically are we expected to keep track of every rent that every landlord is

1:01:58charging for every apartment and you know just to know whether they're keeping it affordable

1:02:03if someone moves out and then the next person comes in so just is that happening in other

1:02:08municipalities that you're aware? Thank you for your question and through you mayor oftentimes

1:02:14our researchers are looking at stats Canada they have an agreement with rentals.ca and so they

1:02:18identify what asking rents are for different types of apartments so it's really that data that supports

1:02:27the calculation of vacancy rates and so it's looking at you know asking rents for a certain

1:02:36I'm not a statistician I'm sorry but looking at a certain type of apartment at a certain rent

1:02:43and asking asking rent and then determining you know what the vacancy rates are for that type.

1:02:50So stats Canada keeps pretty good records of it we have a census that has been recently completed

1:02:56so we're going to have fresh new data as of next year on housing just in time for for the

1:03:01implementation of the bylaws. Right let me restate it your your last slide says that we should

1:03:09maintain the unit affordable for 10 years or until the tenant leaves you're saying let's keep it at

1:03:1310 years so if we were to keep it at the 10 years how do we keep track that after someone moves out

1:03:19that the next person that moves in is paying that affordable rent so I'm asking do other

1:03:24municipalities keep track of how much landlords are paying are asking for every apartment in the city?

1:03:31Yeah certainly staff can better answer that question in cities that have similar rental

1:03:37replacement bylaws there are agreements put in place between the developer and the and the

1:03:42municipality and there are strong fines that can be applied for not complying with those agreements.

1:03:49Okay so it's based on agreements between landlords and municipalities to keep track of

1:03:54of that. Okay thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you worship. Thank you I see nothing further so

1:04:00thank you very much for coming and delegating we appreciate it thank you. Dominica McPherson

1:04:07are you here? Oh yeah you're in the front row come on down. Morgan Dandy are you here?

1:04:18I see a hand. Okay you're here. Dominica thank you for coming it's over to you.

1:04:25Hi good afternoon Mayor Guthrie and members of council thank you for the opportunity to speak

1:04:30today. I first want to acknowledge your leadership in getting us to this point. In late 2024 you

1:04:36identified preserving affordable rental housing as a priority in the city's housing affordability

1:04:41strategy and in late 2025 you directed staff to move this work forward. Today's recommendations

1:04:48are the result of that commitment and I want to say thank you. I also want to thank staff for their

1:04:54work especially on the rental renovation and rental replacement bylaws. These are thoughtful

1:04:59recommendations developed in a relatively short period of time that reflect many of the best

1:05:05practices emerging across Ontario. As a community we often focus on the need to build more affordable

1:05:12housing but preserving the affordable housing we already have is equally important. Every affordable

1:05:19rental unit lost is far more difficult and expensive to replace than it is to protect. These bylaws are

1:05:27an important step in ensuring our city can grow and develop without it coming at the expense of

1:05:32people losing their homes or our community losing vital affordable rental housing. It's important

1:05:39to emphasize that these policies are not aimed at responsible landlords carrying out legitimate

1:05:44renovations or maintaining their properties rather these bylaws are intended to prevent the misuse

1:05:50of renovation and redevelopment processes that lead to tenant displacement that is avoid is avoidable

1:05:56and the loss of affordable housing and they create accountability for bad actors while providing

1:06:02greater clarity and consistency for everyone involved. Beyond supporting the staff recommendations

1:06:08on both the rental renovation and rental replacement bylaws I ask that council strengthen the rental

1:06:13renovation bylaw through the inclusion of tenant compensation beyond what is captured by the

1:06:18residential tenancies act. Compensation is increasingly recognized as you heard as a best

1:06:23practice because it acknowledges the real cost tenants face when they are displaced from their

1:06:28homes including moving expenses higher housing costs and significant disruptions to their lives.

1:06:35I appreciate that staff have identified an alternative approach with compensation.

1:06:40However I'm concerned that the proposed eligibility criteria may be too restrictive to be effective

1:06:46in practice while vacancy can be a useful indicator of housing supply it is not necessarily a measure

1:06:53of affordability. In recent years vacancy rates have improved in Guelph in part due to new rental

1:07:00supply entering the market notably luxury developments yet many community members continue

1:07:06to struggle with rents that remain far beyond what they can afford. Similarly average market rent

1:07:13is not always a good indicator of who is experiencing housing insecurity in our community we continue to

1:07:20see individuals and families paying more than average market rent while struggling to make ends

1:07:25meet living in overcrowded housing arrangements or experiencing core housing need. The impact of

1:07:32displacement is not limited to households below a particular rent threshold when tenants are forced

1:07:38to move the financial and personal consequences can be significant regardless of where their rent

1:07:45falls relative to the market average. For that reason I would encourage council to consider a

1:07:51compensation framework that is broadly accessible to effective tenants consistent with approaches in

1:07:57other municipalities as mentioned rather than one that relies on criteria that may unintentionally

1:08:03exclude households experiencing real hardship. In closing I strongly urge council to adopt the

1:08:10staff recommendations before you today so that the rental renovation bylaw and rental replacement

1:08:16work can move forward without delay. They reflect council's commitment to housing affordability

1:08:22recognize the importance of preserving existing affordable housing and provide practical tools

1:08:28to help protect tenants and our community's rental housing supply. At the same time I strongly

1:08:34encourage you to give further consideration going forward to tenant compensation in the context of

1:08:40the rental renovation bylaw as it remains an important tool to ensure the bylaw is fully

1:08:45effective. If pursued it should avoid overly restrictive criteria that would limit its impact

1:08:51in practice. Thank you so much for your leadership in championing and and to staff for all of your

1:08:57hard work. Thank you so very much and we appreciate your delegation and uh councillor Allt has a question

1:09:07here I go again. Thank you to uh Ms. McPherson, Mayor Guthrie and through you

1:09:14I just have to get clarification because you said two things that might be somewhat contradictory.

1:09:19I believe you wish these proposals to be passed as they are but wish for us to improve it

1:09:27at some point in the future. That's what I think I heard and that's what I'm just taking clarification on.

1:09:32Yes I don't want it to to leave you understanding that I would say hold up the amazing work that

1:09:37staff have put before you today but rather pass the bylaw as proposed and then consider the compensation

1:09:43piece as an addition once you have an opportunity to get it right. Thank you very much. Thank you

1:09:51and seeing nothing further we again appreciate you have a good day thank you. Morgan Dandy is coming

1:09:58on up and is Stephanie clandending here? I see a hand you're in the wings so Morgan whenever you

1:10:08are ready go right ahead. Thank you Mayor hello council and staff I can hardly believe that we're

1:10:17finally here in 2022 there was a community member that put out a call that was answered by then mayoral

1:10:26candidate Danny Drew. Danny then turned around and put it to all of the people that were running

1:10:34in 2022 if they'd like to go on this tour with the community member to see how many vacant homes

1:10:40we could see in a short walk just around one small portion of ward two. We ended up also going

1:10:51in toward three a little bit and I was very surprised that we found a whole bunch of houses

1:10:58that were obviously vacant so I've been advocating for this for four years I was super happy when

1:11:05council decided to ask staff to get this work done. I am also really excited that we have so much

1:11:16work that's been done on a rental renovation bylaw. As it stands I don't think that it's going to do

1:11:28what we need it to do. Without a compensation aspect of it I don't see how we're going to get

1:11:37landlords to care because it as has been said it's not the ones that do care that this is being

1:11:45targeted toward it's the ones that don't where we end up with situations like it has happened

1:11:53at Brent Avenue. Luckily that was withdrawn and it's still a guillotine hanging over the heads of

1:12:02all 45 units because it was withdrawn it never went to the LTB so at any time that landlord

1:12:14can choose to issue N13s. If he's not seeing that it's going to cost him to issue those N13s

1:12:25he is just going to issue them anyway. If he doesn't have to compensate each and every one of those

1:12:32residents that he is displacing he'll go ahead and issue those N13s and the legal alliance clinic

1:12:40is going to be right back in there having to try and deal with all of these people that are accepting

1:12:45cash for keys. This is what we need to get away from and if you are not a person living in a precarious

1:12:52renting situation it's really hard to understand how much of your life is engulfed by worrying about

1:13:02am I still going to have a place to go home to tonight where you've got to put 90% of your

1:13:09belongings into a storage unit that you've got to pay on top of whatever rent you're paying

1:13:14for a unit that may or may not be suitable for you. So if we don't have a compensation aspect of it

1:13:26the rental renovation bylaw is not going to do what we want it to do what we need it to do

1:13:36and that's all I have to say today. Thanks. All right thank you. Thank you. Is there any questions?

1:13:42Is there a follow-up? It doesn't look like it so thank you very much. Stephanie you're coming down.

1:13:50Is Andrew Donlin here? Okay you're in the wings. Okay Andrew welcome Stephanie over to you and

1:13:58over you're ready. Thank you. Good afternoon Mayor Guthrie and members of council. My name is Stephanie

1:14:06Klendening I'm a lawyer and the executive director of the legal clinic of Guelph in Wellington County.

1:14:12When I stood before you last December I started out by telling you that our house was on fire.

1:14:17I share that our clinic alone had seen a 245% increase in N13 since 2020 and that we were on

1:14:24track to see over 280 units housing more than 500 residents receive an N13 by the end of the year.

1:14:31I told you that we were losing our deeply affordable housing stock to predatory bad

1:14:34faith rent evictions at a rate far faster than we could replenish it and you listened. You listened

1:14:40to the people with lived experience you listened to those in the trenches doing the work and you

1:14:45listened to the needs of the community and as a result you courageously voted unanimously to not

1:14:50only reject a wait-and-see approach and accelerate the framework but to also fully close the loop

1:14:56with a complimentary rental replacement bylaw. Now here we are seven months later thanks to your

1:15:02direction and the incredibly hard work of city staff that draft framework is before us. On the

1:15:10ground the crisis hasn't stopped. Our clinic continues to see tenants facing displacement

1:15:15every single day due to this issue but today is really a turning point because now you have the

1:15:20opportunity as well as the tools to really change that trajectory. The position of the legal clinic

1:15:26is clear and we urge council to take two distinct actions today. Number one to approve both the

1:15:32rental renovation and the rental replacement bylaws to secure an essential baseline of protection

1:15:38and two to direct staff to re-examine the tenant compensation piece and bring a refined proposal

1:15:43back to council in the fall of 2026. I'm a realist. I know that we can't afford a single day of

1:15:50further delay. The licensing framework before you creates an immediate vital deterrent against bad

1:15:54faith rent evictions and we need to secure the baseline protection now as a valuable first step.

1:16:00As is the bylaw successfully shifts the burden onto landlords at the outset to prove vacant

1:16:04possession is truly required. It creates municipal oversight to empower tenants not to be pressured

1:16:10into unfair cash for keys deals and it guarantees transparent information. We need to lock in these

1:16:17protections but we should not lose sight of the rent gap compensation because it still really

1:16:21remains our most effective tool. In my opinion the alternate option presented by staff is well

1:16:26intentioned but fundamentally flawed and rather than brushing a broken formula into a bylaw today

1:16:32we should pass the current recommendations and direct staff to re-examine that compensation model.

1:16:37We agree with the position of ACTO that the alternate model is overly complex

1:16:42would likely not require a full-time legal council as well if it was to be reframed

1:16:49and crucially that compensation should not be conditional. The alternate model only triggers

1:16:57compensation of two market conditions are met. The vacancy rate below 3% and an average market

1:17:02rent below 100%. This formula simply does not work in Guelph. Like many mid-sized cities our

1:17:08overall vacancy rate is heavily skewed upward by an influx of new builds and high tier rentals that

1:17:14are sitting vacant. It does not accurately reflect the near zero vacancy rate in our deeply affordable

1:17:19housing stock. This is exactly why other municipalities have included compensation that have included

1:17:24compensation have not made it conditional. Not only is it administratively impractical and

1:17:30unnecessarily complex but it can create significant instability for both landlords who are planning

1:17:35multi-year projects and for tenants who are seeking housing security. It's simply too unpredictable.

1:17:41I also want to reiterate the importance of why we feel including compensation is needed in the

1:17:45first place. By requiring landlords to pay the difference between a tenant's current rent and

1:17:50temporary market rents we do three things. We make the legal right of return financially possible.

1:17:55We eliminate intentional construction delays and we flip that economic incentive so that bad faith

1:18:00evictions are no longer possible. I want to quickly speak to what landlord concerns about this might

1:18:07be. First some might argue that a rent eviction bylaw will dry up property investment and stall

1:18:12housing maintenance but let's be perfectly clear we are not trying to stop a landlord who is fixing

1:18:17a leaky roof or upgrading maybe structural plumbing. We are stopping specific predatory

1:18:22practices of using minor cosmetic renovations as a legal loophole to evict a good tenant so that

1:18:28they can dramatically hike a rent. Good landlords who invest in the long-term health of their properties

1:18:33have absolutely nothing to fear here. Seven months ago you chose courageously to move forward with

1:18:41this and not be complacent. You listened to the community and you refused to look away.

1:18:45And today the tools are placed right in front of you. By passing these two bylaws you will

1:18:51establish an immediate vital baseline of protection for hundreds of families in Guelph. And by directing

1:18:56staff to refine the compensation model most importantly you'll ensure that our long-term

1:19:00strategy is one that's built to last. Perfect timing. You're a good lawyer.

1:19:10Almost like I rehearsed it. Yeah, yeah that's right. Thank you very much. Is there any follow-up

1:19:15questions? Councillor Goller. Through your worship thank you for the presentation.

1:19:21With regards you mentioned that the compensation model was the formula was too complex. Could you

1:19:27are there other municipalities that got a right that have a simpler formula that works in your view?

1:19:33So I mean I would say that the formula that works is not having a trigger at all right that

1:19:39compensation is not conditional upon anything it's automatic. That would be the simplest and

1:19:45streamlined way to do it. Okay okay I appreciate that thank you. I see nothing further so Stephanie

1:19:53thank you so much. Thank you. Okay and coming on down is Andrew, Donlan and is Chad McBain here.

1:20:03Yes Chad thank you for coming. You're in the wings okay. Andrew over to you thank you. Okay thank you.

1:20:11My name is Andy Donlan. I'm a landlord. Been a landlord here in Guelph for 15 years. My wife

1:20:19and I have operated this business. We have had a total of 12 different properties at various times.

1:20:26Mostly single family type homes split into two units per house such as a bungalow with a main

1:20:32floor apartment and and the basement apartment also. Somewhere in the area of five bedrooms per house.

1:20:40At any given time we housed about 40 people. We consider ourselves good landlords not perfect

1:20:48but good. We're close friends with many current and former tenants. Our units comply with all

1:20:55requirements all current requirements of the city of Guelph. Providing rental properties is a business

1:21:03and a landlord cannot make a mistake about that otherwise serious trouble awaits for a landlord.

1:21:10I'm sure you're aware of the Residential Tendencies Act and the landlord tenant board in the province

1:21:17of Ontario. If not you may want to bow out of any voting on this issue. The RTA provides rules for how

1:21:26landlords and tenants must behave and in general somewhat reasonable. We do need to have a stable

1:21:34supply of housing. People need to have stable housing. We get that and employers need to know that

1:21:43if they're running a small business they need to know that their employees are going to show up

1:21:48to work next week and not have to move out of town because their landlord has hugely increased the

1:21:54rent or renovicted them or whatever. Similarly landlords need to know if the rent isn't paid

1:22:02they have the ability to evict a tenant. It's a business and the LTB is the adjudicator of

1:22:11the RTA and basically oversees this business. It's far from a perfect system but it does try to

1:22:19protect both tenants and landlords in a fair manner across the province. Landlords need protection

1:22:27from bad tenants and tenants need protection from bad landlords. That's a given. There's plenty

1:22:33examples of both. Now the RTA and the LTB are a long-standing part of the Ontario government

1:22:41having withstood many political parties but regardless somehow the city of Guelph has decided

1:22:49that the RTA and the LTB process is inadequate and you're going to take control of that

1:22:56especially in regards to the renovations and the downsizing of apartments.

1:23:01Well if the people of Ontario felt that the RTA was inadequate then they should be pressuring their

1:23:08MPPs to get this changed in some fair manner across the province and not a patchwork quilt

1:23:15of different regulations in every city. So why does the city of Guelph want to take control

1:23:22of this issue out of the people of Ontario? Don't the people of Ontario get to decide what happens

1:23:28in Ontario? This is a classic example. The second part of my concern is that this is a classic

1:23:35example of putting additional burden on landlords as if we don't already have enough. I assure you

1:23:41we have a lot of burdens. This is a very limited business. You can't just start renting an apartment.

1:23:48It's not that simple. It's not like selling apples at the side of the road or something like that.

1:23:53It's a very restricted business. So does the city think that this is going to end up with

1:24:01more housing available? Maybe no change, maybe less? Well I just want to tell you, I don't know

1:24:11exactly where it's going to go but my feeling is it's going to be less. You're discouraging landlords.

1:24:17How do you think that's going to go? And I just want to tell you that as a landlord right now in

1:24:22Guelph we're selling all of our properties. If we have one of our properties in an apartment that's

1:24:3215 or 20 years old and the rent has had an average of 2% increase and now all of a sudden

1:24:37we're expected to completely renovate that unit and offer it back to the tenant at the same price,

1:24:44that's not a business. That's not going to happen. These kinds of requirements create slums in our

1:24:51cities. I believe other landlords have the same attitudes as myself. And I can tell you something

1:25:00else about the units that we're selling. They're not being reused as rental housing. They're being

1:25:06sold to single families and being reconverted back into regular units. Okay. Yep sorry that's

1:25:16your time but thank you. Thank you very much for your delegation and let me just see if there's any

1:25:21follow-up questions for you. Okay. Okay I have one question. No one had a question for you but I have

1:25:30one for you. Sure thing. Okay first of all thank you for being a landlord. Okay like I appreciate

1:25:36that. It seems to me I just met you now just for the first time that you seem like one of the good

1:25:42guys right? And so I just feel like this what's being proposed today is to try to catch gaps

1:25:50potentially with the province as you you related to the province you said something about the province

1:25:54but also to catch gaps with the sort of the landlords that are at the root of the problem,

1:26:01the bad faith landlords that are out there, the odd one, two, three or four of them that are out there.

1:26:08So have you come across any of those types of landlords within your travels where you've heard

1:26:15of these types of situations where tenants are experiencing exactly why we're here today?

1:26:21Again not referencing you whatsoever but have you heard of anything that you can tell myself and

1:26:27counsel about experiences of tenants where they actually have gone through these types of issues?

1:26:35Very few. I've come across some questionable landlords but I know a lot of landlords. I also

1:26:44volunteer with the small Ontario landlords organization solo and I take calls from landlords

1:26:54and I talk to a lot of landlords. I know a lot of landlords and go off as well.

1:26:58Most of them are trying to run a business you know just just like I am and you know

1:27:07in terms of being a bad landlord it's not just about bad landlords that this is going to create

1:27:13trouble for right now. Like I said with a 15 year old apartment that needs a renovation how do we deal

1:27:19with that? It's not going to get dealt with. Even the existing framework barely allows it to get

1:27:25dealt with because the tenant has to get out of the apartment for the most part and it has to be

1:27:32renovated but is the landlord going to invest tens of thousands of dollars and expect to be

1:27:37given back to the tenant at the same price? That's not going to happen. That's not a business.

1:27:42That's charity and that's not where landlords that's not their area. That might be maybe the

1:27:51government's various governments and I don't mind my tax dollars being directed towards providing

1:27:58adequate housing but we shouldn't be expecting landlords to be the ones to provide affordable

1:28:04housing. That's not their domain. They're not going to do that and you're just going to end up with more slums.

1:28:11Okay well on some of that we can maybe agree and I appreciate you answering that question

1:28:16for me and council. I really do and again thank you for being a landlord the amount of time that

1:28:21you are I sincerely mean that and we appreciate you coming to delegate today okay. Thank you.

1:28:25Okay next is Chad McBain and then is Daniel Kaufman here? You're in the wings Daniel

1:28:36and Chad welcome thank you nice to see you and go ahead with your delegation whenever you're ready.

1:28:43Good afternoon mayor members of council and city staff to be clear my name is not Chad McBain he

1:28:49wasn't able to make it my name's Dylan Fraser I'm standing in for Chad. I wondered I'm like

1:28:55I met you a few times I'm like I don't think that guy's name is Chad. No trouble. Okay thank you for

1:29:00thank you for stating that so you're here on behalf of on behalf of the one point which I

1:29:04understand okay yes absolutely thank you for stating that but you probably should state just for the

1:29:08record then you're here on behalf of yes Dylan Fraser president-elect of the one point association

1:29:14thank you I think that's important to state that for okay go ahead absolutely thank you for the

1:29:18opportunity to speak today primarily on item 2.2 of the agenda the affordable housing policy

1:29:24program the draft rental renovation bylaw one point represents more than 600 realtors who work on both

1:29:32with both tenants and housing providers across Guelph at the outset I want to be very clear

1:29:38one point strongly supports robust tenant protections where bad faith renovate renovations

1:29:44occur they can have significant consequences for tenants who may struggle to find comparable

1:29:49replacement housing in today's market tenants deserve strong protections clear information

1:29:55about their rights and access to effective remedies when those rights are violated the question

1:30:01before the committee today is not whether tenants should be protected the question is whether a new

1:30:07municipal licensing framework remains necessary now that the province has substantially strengthened

1:30:12the residential tenancies act notably the province has now proclaimed significant amendments through

1:30:18bills 97 and 60 that strengthen tenant protections improve transparency requirements enhance the

1:30:24right of return and substantially increase penalties for bad faith conduct and these changes

1:30:31are scheduled to come into force september 2026 these changes directly address many of the concerns

1:30:36that originally motivated and are covered by the renovation bylaw the province's recent reforms

1:30:43represent a significant strengthening of tenant protections and with that in mind it's important

1:30:47to examine the local evidence to determine whether additional municipal intervention is warranted

1:30:53between 2015 and 2022 and 13 notices in guelph range from as few as one in several years to a peak

1:31:01of 14 in 2020 or 2018 and in subsequent years the number declined again to between one and four

1:31:07notices annually before increasing recently to 10 notices in 2023 16 in 2024 and 32 in 2025

1:31:16with approximately 19 000 households in guelph 32 and 13 notices represents less than 1% of the

1:31:23overall market in a given year equally important the city does not have data on how many of these

1:31:30notices resulted in actual displacement nor any reliable method of distinguishing between legitimate

1:31:36renovation related activities or bad faith this limitation means that the city is considering

1:31:44the introduction of a permanent regulatory regime with a clear understanding without a clear

1:31:48understanding of the scale and nature of the problem it's intended to address to be clear

1:31:55one renovation in bad faith is too many again it's a matter of whether or not this

1:32:01proposed bylaw is the the proper means of addressing that according to cmhc over 4 000

1:32:09rental units in guelph require minor repairs and 1300 require major repairs these represent

1:32:15nearly 30 of the city's housing stock recent experiences have proven and were previously

1:32:21shown in a in a by a previous delegate that renovation and rental replacement bylaws in

1:32:27both toronto and hamilton are so administrative come administratively cumbersome and costly

1:32:33for rental property owners that they've become de facto bands on renovations to units of

1:32:39tenanted properties the long-term consequences of this policy on guelph will be significant with

1:32:45higher rents and many small landlords deciding to turn their units back to the ownership market

1:32:51as was previously mentioned while others will defer repairs and investment impacting the

1:32:58overall quality of guelph's rental housing stock one point also encourages council on a separate

1:33:03matter to carefully review the interaction between the proposed vacant home tax bylaw

1:33:10and the city's existing short-term rental bylaw as currently drafted there appears to be a risk

1:33:15that some legally operating short-term properties could be deemed vacant because they may not

1:33:21satisfy the requirement that a residential unit be occupied as a principal residence for at least

1:33:26183 days we encourage council and staff to clarify the treatment of these properties so that the

1:33:33the bylaws meeting it's defined goal instead of rushing into this bylaw we encourage staff and

1:33:41the the city to monitor the effects of the provincial it's okay you got there you got

1:33:49to a sentence to a period that's good thank you very much and let me just see if there's any

1:33:54follow-up questions i got busitil and that's it thank you go ahead busitil please thank you very

1:34:01much dylan for the presentation and through the mayor in your presentation you mentioned that

1:34:07is this the proper way to address kind of the bad faith renovations and i don't know if you've put

1:34:13a great deal of thought and research into this what other the what are the other ways that you

1:34:18think are impactful in in deterring bad faith renovations roughly 60 of the sort of line by

1:34:29line items that are noted in the bylaw are covered by the proclam the the bill 97 which has been

1:34:37proclaimed and will come affect september 2026 and i would i would suggest that those are the

1:34:43substantive ones as in terms of in terms of getting some actual implementations or monitoring those

1:34:50because some of those have already been been implemented to duplicate them would just

1:34:54cause confusion additionally we already have the city is sort of the the storehouse for

1:35:03renovation data so there could be a trigger for if if someone's renovating a property

1:35:08significantly that has a tenant the the city doesn't need to create a bylaw to to send out

1:35:13information on tenants rights to to that tenant so those those would be

1:35:20a few of the points thank you interest through the mayor so what i'm hearing from you is that

1:35:27your your organization's preference is to rely on bill 97 to monitor it and rely on it up

1:35:36until up and until it proves that it's not meeting um or making progress that that we would hope

1:35:43to see thank you great i need you to answer one question for me because i didn't quite hear

1:35:52the last part part of your delegation said about a certain unit that you wanted clarity on from

1:35:59staff did you say short-term rentals about 183 yeah so i we've sent notes to staff the the point

1:36:09being that the definition of a vacant home relies on it being someone's principal residence for 183

1:36:18days and short-term rentals naturally are not someone's principal residence i'm sure and frankly

1:36:24there's other loopholes or reasonable circumstances that someone would be actually renting a property

1:36:31where it wouldn't meet those meet those thresholds and therefore they would be deemed i think

1:36:37unintentionally as vacant homes i can give an example if it's i would love you yes i will i

1:36:44want to hear that yes fantastic okay so let's say that i own my principal residence at 123

1:36:50suffix street i buy 115 suffix street and i've rented out as a short-term rental

1:36:56even if it's rented for 365 days of the year that would be under the current uh verbiage of the

1:37:02bylaw considered a vacant home and taxed as such then my second um if i if i wanted to have a second

1:37:10short-term rental the bylaw the short-term uh rental bylaw says that that needs to be

1:37:15somewhere on my principal residence so that one's fine but then i can have a third which

1:37:21let's say it's the semi right next to me that one would also be regardless of the fact that it might

1:37:28be rented for 365 days of the year that would also be a vacant home under the current verbiage of

1:37:32the bylaw i'm i'm going to follow up or one of my colleagues will ask staff about that thank you

1:37:40for raising that fair enough so thank you very much i see no further questions we appreciate it

1:37:45thank you okay who do i say is next daniel come on down and then our last one is sharon falkler

1:37:58sharon here front row perfect daniel welcome it's over to you whenever you're ready all right

1:38:09good afternoon mayor and members of council i'm here today speaking as myself but also

1:38:14since the last time i was here i'm also a member of the guelphan wellington tenient union

1:38:18and there are some of us here today as well in support um as i've done several times before

1:38:24i've come to support my to force my support for the implementation of anti-rent eviction bylaw to

1:38:29be passed in guelph i've already told my story a few times so i won't go deep into that here in short

1:38:35the homes of my neighbors and i were bought our rights as tenants were continuously violated

1:38:39until finally there was an attempt to remove us from our homes through no fault of our own

1:38:44but today i want to put the focus clearly on what landlords such as my own brain to our city

1:38:49and why action is important to determine more of this ongoing behavior firstly i want to make

1:38:54clear that my landlord does not call guelph home in fact i'd be surprised if they've ever even shown

1:38:59up to the property themselves they did not create our home i was strongly argued that they do not

1:39:04maintain our homes either i spoke to many of my neighbors who speak of maintenance not being done

1:39:09for them our freezer has been broken for over half a year only for us to be told that we need to buy

1:39:14the replacement parts ourselves every person i've spoken to in our buildings is expressed concern

1:39:19with ongoing infestations of rats and cockroaches and the landlord who refuses to address any of it

1:39:27i had a neighbor invite me to show me their bathtub in their unit where just stepping on it you can

1:39:33hear the water sloshing underneath it and causing rot and mold and there are holes all around the

1:39:40sides of our buildings right now and rubble strewn about not done safely i include some pictures and

1:39:45my correspondence um there are children playing around that area every single day five to ten

1:39:52all over the place sure the landlord will slap a new coat of paint on the walls before a new

1:39:57tenant moves in but despite all that you can still quite literally see the exposed cracks forming in

1:40:02the foundation of our homes this is clearly a for-profit venture with little to no respect for

1:40:07the city or the people that live here but this is the type of landlord you attracted the city with

1:40:12lacked protections those who will buy in with their money but not with their hearts my story is not

1:40:18unique you will find similar examples across guelph and across the province as well anywhere where

1:40:23people are not protected this behavior will persist i'm aware that there are those in this city opposed

1:40:29to this bylaw but we are here today because there are vulnerable groups of people in this city who

1:40:33need these protections furthermore this bylaw does not affect already vacant units from being

1:40:39renovated i can promise you my landlord has been renovating units once they are properly vacated

1:40:45and some of those renovations aren't actually even to the plans in the n-13s i was given the several

1:40:50years ago this bylaw is needed because there's a lack of accountability for those who would abuse

1:40:56the system as it is now i also didn't understand that there may be some apprehension based on

1:41:01waiting to see how the province will act maybe sunday we will see the full and decisive action of

1:41:06the province on this matter but we do not know when it is coming and as clear the storm is still

1:41:12ongoing we still have this issue and it is not getting much better i urge council not to wait

1:41:17to see if somebody else will come to protect our neighbors from the oncoming floods but instead to

1:41:21take action now and to protect those that we can please adopt this bylaw in full force additional

1:41:27compensation measures rental replacement and all to protect our neighbors and glove thank you

1:41:34thanks daniel we appreciate your delegation as well and let me see if there's any follow-up

1:41:39questions council or busitil we have a we have a match going on here council or busitil and

1:41:44council or all to see how many can how many questions can be asked thank you very much

1:41:49for your delegation and through the mayor daniel yes i'm familiar with with you know the trials

1:41:55that you've gone through i just have a question during your presentation you said that you know

1:42:00the landlord is renovating and some units have been very vacated and so on have you seen the

1:42:06back end of that where now the landlord is posting for rent those units and do you have any comments

1:42:13on you know the size of the units and or the affordability so as far as the affordability is

1:42:19concerned um there is compared to the old leases for example utilities are included in old leases

1:42:25they are not in new ones making them a lot less affordable just at base i believe some of these

1:42:30units are going for upwards of double the price of what they were originally um and as i said before

1:42:36too some of these units are not even getting the full renovations that were in those end 13 some

1:42:41were talking about removing a you know unload bearing wall and stuff like that but i've seen

1:42:45units where they've just changed the carpets quick and then put it out to rent thank you thank you

1:42:53and seeing nothing more thank you very much thank you oh did i see oh don't go anywhere

1:43:00councillor kate i'm so sorry you're right ahead my apologies that's okay uh thank you through you

1:43:06mr mayor um so i i really want to tell you how much i appreciate the work that you did to help um

1:43:14get the tenants to stay in the area i know that a lot of folks were evicted before you and the

1:43:20the legal aid team went to to court um and also a lot of this is happening in ward one you're not

1:43:28the only building that this is happening to and they all seem to be on a cluster so i was wondering

1:43:34just in terms of the compensation piece when we talk about uh three percent vacancy rate

1:43:40when you got your notices and you started just kind of i'm sure you started looking around to

1:43:45see what was available out there was there a lot of stuff that was affordable or is it mostly all

1:43:52above market it's not affordable really i mean the biggest issue for me was that i live with my

1:43:58father he's getting older we need to try and find a place that we can stay together that's not easy

1:44:04to find i mean my father he only has um just the basic pension from the government of canada so not

1:44:10much money and i work at a grocery store could not afford more in the room maybe we could afford a

1:44:16one bedroom apartment to move in together but they would stretch us very thin to move not to mention

1:44:21the moving expenses and whatnot as well so in your estimation um without the compensation piece

1:44:30how effective is the bylaw not very effective because the biggest thing that this needs to do

1:44:36is it needs to make sure that people throughout the process especially if it isn't good faith

1:44:41they need to feel stable they need to feel secure during the time that they are displaced

1:44:45i know i've mentioned it before but my landlord had vacant units while issuing these n-13's

1:44:51there's no reason they couldn't have rotated us into those units while they did

1:44:54if they were necessary renovations done those renovations and i know it's also been addressed

1:45:00at time that like doing these it costs money to do these renovations if they are important if they

1:45:05are substantial the landlord could apply to get a rent increase to a reasonable amount to deal with

1:45:12that i know some may or may not disagree with the validity of that i don't necessarily see an issue

1:45:18i would have been okay paying a little bit more to have a good unit but as long as it's still

1:45:22stayed in that affordable range and we still stayed in our home but yeah thank you very much

1:45:31all right thanks councillor uh kate and thank you for real you can leave this time now

1:45:35all right thank you all right thank you all right i believe we have one more sharon uh

1:45:41feckler is coming on up and welcome and thank you it's over to you thank you good evening

1:46:02mayor Guthrie and members of council my name is sharon felker and i'm a lifelong resident of

1:46:08gulf i am speaking today in support of the proposed rental renovation bylaw and to support the

1:46:15rental replacement bylaw work to move forward i come to this conversation with two perspectives

1:46:23i have rented for most of my life and i also come from a background in property management

1:46:30because of that i understand both the realities of maintaining maintaining rental housing and the

1:46:37realities of living in it when you've spent most of your life renting you understand that housing

1:46:44security can sometimes feel fragile you know that decisions made by someone else can determine

1:46:51whether you get to stay in the place you call home you also understand that there is an inherent

1:46:58imbalance of power in the landlord-tenant relationship landlords hold significantly more

1:47:04power in that relationship because decisions they make can directly affect whether a tenant gets to

1:47:11remain in their home most landlords are not bad actors and most tenants are simply trying to

1:47:20maintain stable housing but when a tenant is told they may have to leave their home that imbalance

1:47:27of power becomes very real and scary it can be difficult to question decisions challenge processes

1:47:36or advocate for your rights when housing feels uncertain the fear of losing your home is powerful

1:47:44particularly in a rental market where affordable alternatives are increasingly extremely difficult

1:47:51to find from my property management experience i also understand that legitimate renovations

1:47:58sometimes need to happen buildings require repairs upgrades and ongoing maintenance this bylaw is not

1:48:06about preventing necessary renovations from taking place what this bylaw does is create

1:48:12accountability and transparency when renovations require vacant possession it establishes a framework

1:48:21that helps ensure the process is clear documented and subject to oversight for tenants that matters

1:48:30when someone loses housing the impacts extend far beyond the physical unit housing instability can

1:48:38affect financial security mental well-being family life community connections and a person's

1:48:46sense of safety i support the recommendations to fund the implementation of these bylaws

1:48:54because policies only work when there are resources available to administer and enforce them

1:49:02i also support including compensation in the rental renovation bylaw while ensuring the criteria

1:49:10for it isn't so restrictive that it makes it ineffective i believe it is also important for

1:49:16the community to understand how the bylaw is functioning and whether it is achieving its

1:49:22intended goals at its core this bylaw is about creating a more balanced and transparent process

1:49:30in situations where tenants are being asked to leave their homes it recognizes that housing

1:49:38is not just an asset or an investment for tenants it's home as someone who has spent most of my

1:49:46life renting i know what it feels like to rely on housing that you don't own as someone someone

1:49:53with experience in property management i understand the importance of maintaining rental properties

1:49:59and completing necessary renovations i believe this bylaw strikes an important balance between

1:50:05those realities while providing greater protection and accountability for tenants

1:50:11i encourage council to support the recommendations before you today and i thank you for your time

1:50:18and consideration and thank you for uh for your delegation being the last one to bring us home

1:50:28there so thank you is there any questions at all there isn't thank you very much thank you

1:50:34am i blind today what is going on

1:50:40councillor Caton i'm very sorry okay i guess i literally am having trouble seeing uh it's the

1:50:46stripes it's the stripes you know you know i i'm not i'm an illusion it's okay um so through you

1:50:53mr mayor uh to the delegate thank you very much for your delegation uh i was wondering

1:51:01if we do this in stages do you think that's acceptable because this is all new these are all

1:51:07new departments um if we can get in the bulk of it today and then come back in a year and see how

1:51:16that goes for the compensation piece do you think that that's a reasonable approach

1:51:23absolutely because i think we need something now i don't think we need to send this back

1:51:27so that we can look at it for another year and then come back again i think we need something now

1:51:34because people i i mean i'm currently paying 80 percent of my monthly income goes to my rent

1:51:41and if somebody asked me to move out because they needed to do renovations

1:51:46i'd probably be in a tent somewhere because i couldn't afford any more than what i'm already paying

1:51:56thank you very much i appreciate the invulnerability you're welcome thank you yeah thank you i just

1:52:01could have say some something similar i appreciate your you're sharing your lived experience there

1:52:05that that thank you very much appreciate that okay um for real there's no more delegations

1:52:14and no one's got hands up right okay so we we are done uh on the delegations and thank you so much

1:52:23i think i'd like to just move through the motions and and maybe if someone wants to talk about

1:52:29some of the stuff that's come up with the with the delegations and things like that that's totally

1:52:33fine now i've had a request from staff that we would actually just go through each one and not

1:52:40not vote on everything on a block but we can quickly go through each one and then if there's

1:52:45a question or if there's an amendment or anything like that we can stop at each one as we go um i

1:52:52would suggest uh we just do it in order so uh councillor Allt i think you mentioned you'd be

1:53:00okay with moving the vacant home tax one goller you'll second that okay i'll i'll spread the love

1:53:06here and go around the room on moving and seconding okay um so uh is there any questions

1:53:14just questions on the vacant home tax or are we pretty good on that one pretty good on that one

1:53:20okay councillor hauser yeah go ahead through you mayor to the staff i just wanted to clarify the

1:53:26question regarding the um vacant home for short term rentals could you address that for us thank

1:53:36you uh through the mayor to councillor hauser um currently engulf we have 16 licensed short term

1:53:45rentals all of them are either a basement apartment or an ad u in addition to the principal residents

1:53:54of the owner so through our existing proposed bylaw those would be exempt from the vacant home tax

1:54:07if there was a standalone short term rental that was being used exclusively for short term

1:54:14rentals 365 days a year or whatever it may be there may be a suggestion or argument to say

1:54:23that that property should be assessed as commercial such as a hotel versus residential and then

1:54:30therefore be exempt from the vht bylaw also thank you for that okay hey i have a common question

1:54:42to oh sorry go ahead councillor uh councillor Caron sorry thank you actually that that uh

1:54:47generated a question because i know when we did the um review for short term rentals one of the

1:54:54things that we evaluated was whether what the land use is and that commercial land use and

1:55:01residential land use there was a there was a nuance there that we couldn't use short term

1:55:07rentals as commercialists is is there's something that a hotel functions as and when that is different

1:55:16than a short term rental or am i misremembering that distinction so i through the mayor to

1:55:26councillor Caron um from a assessment perspective is very different than what may be applicable from

1:55:36a land use perspective so those are two things that well you may think they're similar they can

1:55:43be very different um okay okay we're good okay are we good on on this one everybody

1:55:57okay um i just wanted to very quickly ask a question i think is applicable to all for me anyways

1:56:06and i think it's just important for it to be out there in the community publicly as well

1:56:12let's say everything is passed here when are they naturally reviewed when are they naturally

1:56:18reviewed or updated or revised when does council have an opportunity to to to shift or zager's egg on

1:56:25something on on on these types of things is there a five-year sort of automatic renewal

1:56:30review time a two-year or just just so that we we know to you mr. mayor our intention is to report

1:56:40annually um back to council through the housing affordability strategy and in fact the second

1:56:45item before you for consideration and the third motion specifically speaks to reporting back to

1:56:50council but our intention on all of these items would be to report back as appropriate through the

1:56:54pass yeah okay and and further on the vht perspective there will be reporting done um

1:57:03through the annual tax policy so if there were any changes required to the vht bylaws

1:57:10that would come through the annual tax policy process okay great my second question quickly is

1:57:19uh through to to dug um if you don't mind um i've got a real problem with vacant homes

1:57:30that are absolutely pulling down the entire street they are vacant they are derelict they are an

1:57:42absolute eyesore and they're pulling the entire street neighborhood down on them so from a property

1:57:49standards point of view that intersects with these vacant homes what are what is the current regime

1:57:59of staff as they try to address those types of homes um and as a follow-up when would an

1:58:08opportunity for council be to actually maybe have a discussion on the levies of the fines the

1:58:17enforcement and any escalation in those fines and or enforcement that we can actually drive home

1:58:25the point of making sure that these vacant homes are actually from a property standards point of

1:58:32view being taken care of to you mr mayor um with respect to your question you could direct staff

1:58:44um to look at uh requesting us to review the property standards bylaw as well as the yard waste

1:58:52or yard maintenance bylaw set fines to um uh proposes increases in line with other municipal

1:59:01comparators as well as our other bylaws to take a look at options for the set fines

1:59:06however i can say that for ongoing issues staff rather than issue in a set fine would

1:59:14issue a summons to the individual for the violation requesting their appearance in court

1:59:20upon conviction of that charge staff would seek a higher fine for that and as issues progress we

1:59:29would seek higher fines in addition any work that's not completed as per an order

1:59:35staff have the ability to have contractors or city staff complete the work at the property

1:59:41owners expense and we also charge an administration fee for that service of $150 so council could

1:59:49also ask us to take a look at those fees council i i would really appreciate if we did that i know

1:59:57councillor all you're saying that you'd be willing to do us we could do a secondary motion under this

2:00:02councillor karam would be willing to second that would would you be willing to just help us with

2:00:08the language around that very quickly um we could take a pause just for a moment yeah to get that

2:00:14done and i could still call the vote on the main motion um as the language gets written out for that

2:00:20other that other thing there so if you don't mind i'll do that now then okay so i'll call the motion

2:00:27as as they are under this theme of the vacancy tax and then we'll wait for staff to help us with

2:00:32that additional motion okay is anyone against that nobody because so that's unanimous um

2:00:41just while staff are helping with this if i'll just give a little commentary like this is this is

2:00:46this is an issue like i know councillor Allt like for sure and in three anyways in ward three

2:00:54you and i have gone to homes together where they are terrible um ward five

2:01:02Kathy uh leanne like i know we've addressed how to address these issues and they're everywhere

2:01:07but i'm just telling you the ones i've been involved in over the past and people just flaunted

2:01:13they just like they don't care and i mean these these fines in my view they need to be like tripled

2:01:19to as an incentive to like get these properties in order and we from an enforcement point of view

2:01:26personally i think we need to ramp that up and um uh but they they some of these people they just use

2:01:35the system they just use the system and they pull an entire neighborhood down with them uh it is

2:01:41it's not it's not good it's not healthy and um and so i've been i'm i'm pleased thank you for

2:01:47shaking your heads in agreement that we need to at least have this reviewed and then you guys can

2:01:50deal with it next term or whatever but um i i appreciate that um any commentary just on that

2:01:57as staff or councillor Allt yes i i'm actually i think this is one of those kumbaya moments where

2:02:02mayor guthrie and i entirely agree um this is a this has been a problem that i have encountered

2:02:08many many times and i certainly know that the residents who have concerns about houses that have

2:02:14been essentially neglected or even abandoned will uh we'll celebrate this and this is an

2:02:22an opportune time to address it because we're dealing with something that is very very clearly

2:02:28a significant issue if we have houses that have been neglected or abandoned we have houses that

2:02:34could have been improved and could have been put into the rental market so let's do it all right

2:02:40thank you do you want to comment uh after your comment the staff look like they're ready go ahead

2:02:45sure my comment is just about quantifying the benefit here i mean we we have ribbon cuttings

2:02:50for things like for 20 units or 30 units and when you add up the number of vacant potential

2:02:56bedrooms that could be rented in the hundreds in this city um it really quantifies how much

2:03:02more rental stock we could put if we uh if we're successful in implementation thank you

2:03:10so staff you've got something to help us mr. mary believe it's with clerks okay just while

2:03:20we're waiting for that i just want to thank staff again around this vacancy thing like

2:03:24it's been kind of toyed with for like both four years or so so um thank you very much and you know

2:03:30i just got to say it the premise and the narrative that there were thousands of homes and units

2:03:37that were vacant across the city were completely untrue and i'm not factual we're looking at about

2:03:4450 50 homes now those are important those 50 don't get me wrong but in the election

2:03:51you know last time thousands of homes wrong it's 50 okay go ahead put it up on the screen

2:04:00all right councillor all you said you'd move it for me you want you read it out loud for us

2:04:05thank you mayor guthrie moved by all seconded by karan that staff be directed to review

2:04:09property standards and yard maintenance fines propose increases in line with other municipal

2:04:14comparators with a view to improving compliance clause two and that staff be directed to review

2:04:21the administration fees related to the property standards and yard maintenance bylaws for repeat

2:04:26violations awesome thank you seconded by councillor Caron is everyone okay if i call the vote

2:04:33i'm going to is anyone against that unanimous thank you there that's my only legacy after 12 years

2:04:41that that motion all right um let's move on to the second one which is the affordable housing