Application from MHBC Planning Ltd. on behalf of the owner, GSD Development and Management Inc.…

46:30the proposed official plan and zoning bylaw amendment.

46:34On this as a decision report,

46:36we have only delegations that have signed up

46:38to give us their opinions.

46:40The first on our list is Claudia Espendola,

46:43but Claudia is just having, I think,

46:44or we are a little bit of technical problems.

46:46So we'll try to come back to Claudia.

46:49So our first delegation will be Neil Parker,

46:53joining us by video and for Neil and for all.

46:58Is that daddy still on a meeting?

47:03Sorry, would it be possible to go after Mehdi?

47:06I'm also just, I have to figure out

47:07a type of difficulty if it's possible

47:09for me to just go back to the, okay?

47:12Sure, I'm easy going.

47:14Thank you so much for that.

47:15Yep, Mehdi.

47:18Is Mehdi Sargozia available?

47:23I'm very sorry if I'm saying your last name wrong.

47:25Yeah, yes.

47:27Hello Mehdi, thank you so much for joining us.

47:29And this is just a comment not only to you,

47:31but to all of our delegations that have signed up tonight.

47:35You have no more than five minutes to delegate.

47:39And so you can take the entire five minutes if you need to.

47:43You will hear a warning at the four minute and 30 second mark.

47:48That is your 30 second warning.

47:50Please don't get to five minutes

47:51because I'll have to cut you off at that time.

47:54And stick around after your delegation,

47:56just in case any of my colleagues or myself

47:58would like to ask a follow up question.

48:00Mehdi, thank you for joining us.

48:02And I do hear and I do see you online as well.

48:05So you're coming through both video and audio.

48:07I'll turn it over to you.

48:08You go right ahead.

48:11Thank you very much for the opportunity.

48:15I will try to be short and specific to the point.

48:19In my view, in my personal view,

48:22the proposed development at Gordon Street

48:26create big problem with traffic in Lansdowne Drive.

48:31Currently we are close to 60 houses

48:35in Lowering Lane, Eminy Lane,

48:39Valley Road and Lansdowne Drive.

48:41And all of us exit from Valley Road

48:44and Lansdowne to the Gordon Street.

48:47In rush hour, we have to wait for long time to get out

48:50and we are just around 60 at this point.

48:53The current development proposes accessibility

48:56through the Lansdowne Drive,

48:59especially for the two tower, 122 unit there.

49:04So that's we believe that create a big problem

49:07with the traffic.

49:09And we just, we want to ask the city

49:14to do a complete study of traffic

49:17for the Lansdowne Drive.

49:19And we think that those high-rise

49:22should not have access to the Lansdowne Drive.

49:27The townhouse that is proposed,

49:30those should use the Lansdowne Drive,

49:32but the accessibility for the high-rise

49:35through Lansdowne create problem.

49:39And I should mention that there is a sharp turn

49:42before going to the Gordon Street

49:46and there is no traffic light for either of those exit.

49:50And if you are trying to turn left in the rush hour,

49:55good luck with you.

49:57That's I think the main concern that we have as community

50:01or that traffic will create some unwanted effect.

50:05And we also, we need to consider,

50:08there would be more development,

50:09the other side of Lansdowne Drive in future.

50:13And those would be additional traffic

50:15that will go through the Lansdowne Drive.

50:18Thank you very much.

50:20Thank you, Mehdi.

50:21Thank you for your presentation.

50:22Let me ask my colleagues if there's a follow-up for you.

50:26I'm seeing and hearing none.

50:28We'll take it under consideration and thank you again.

50:32I'm going to go back now to Neil Parker.

50:36Yeah, well good.

50:38Who I believe is going to join us by video.

50:40Neil, are you going to be able to join us by video

50:42or only audio?

50:44I think I have video working right now.

50:48And by the way, there's no pressure.

50:49It's up to you, but all right, there you are.

50:51Oh, now you're going, oh, there you are.

50:53Okay, Neil, thank you very much for joining us.

50:55Again, no more than five minutes.

50:57I'll turn it over to you.

50:57Go right ahead.

50:58You got it.

50:59And I'd like to start just by thanking

51:01Mayor Guthrie and City Council

51:02for giving me and the members of my community

51:03the opportunity to speak this evening.

51:06I'd also like to thank Lindsey

51:07in planning and development services

51:08for all of our help and answering questions

51:10for our community these past several weeks.

51:13So as the mayor said, my name is Neil Parker

51:15and I'm a resident of South Guelph.

51:16I'm also the president of the board of directors

51:18for Wellington vacant land condominium corporation 253.

51:22This is a community of 26 homes adjacent

51:24to where this development is being established.

51:26I'm going to comment tonight, they're my own,

51:27but they're also influenced by the questions,

51:29comments and concerns of several of my constituents.

51:32So it's important to note before I make any comments

51:34that I am pro development.

51:35I'm not here to argue development

51:37should not be built in this community.

51:38To the contrary, I only have the privilege

51:40of living in Guelph because of urban development.

51:42It gave my family the opportunity

51:43to move back to where we grew up.

51:45So I'm very pro development

51:46and I'm excited to see our city continuing to grow up.

51:49My grave is concerned though,

51:50and the one shared unanimously

51:51amongst everyone in the lands down community

51:53is traffic flow.

51:55I'll repeat that and many said it as well, traffic flow.

51:58We are adamant that there has been insufficient analysis

52:01of the impact that this adjacent development

52:03will have on landstown drive,

52:04which is a quiet, narrow two lane street

52:07that serves precisely 64 detached homes

52:10and facilitates two elementary school bus stops.

52:13I submitted a few photographs to council

52:14that I see are projected up there.

52:15My apologies, I couldn't be there live

52:17in attendance tonight.

52:19Lands down connects to Gordon street at two points.

52:21At the south end where it merges onto Valley Road,

52:23which connects to Gordon street,

52:25there are no traffic lights

52:26and it's dangerous and often a lengthy wait

52:28to turn left to head south.

52:30An ill placed bus stop also impedes visibility

52:32to oncoming traffic to the left.

52:34Not ideal for the 64 homes in this neighborhood

52:36reliant on lands down drive to access Gordon street

52:39and far less ideal for the hundreds more to come.

52:42This 100 meter strip of Valley road

52:44between lands down and Gordon is also so steep

52:46that when icy days car slide directly into oncoming traffic,

52:49school buses cannot ascend this grade.

52:51And therefore they have to go

52:52to the north entrance of lands down.

52:55And then at the north end,

52:56the second connection to Gordon street,

52:58it again lacks traffic lights as Median mentioned,

53:00but it's a more convenient means to head north into the city.

53:03There's two hour street parking on lands down drive

53:05to sell them enforced.

53:06And it narrows the road to the extent

53:07that school buses can barely squeeze by lands down

53:10as among the last streets in Guelph

53:11to be plowed after snow storms,

53:13often 24 to 48 hours after snowfall is seized.

53:16Lands down is also a source of speeding,

53:18generally delivery drivers and visitors

53:19in different to speed limits.

53:21And they never obey the stop signs of the yield signs.

53:23Now I'm a parent and I always accompany my kids

53:26to the bus stops here because it's just the right thing

53:28to do on a street like this, which is abused.

53:30All right.

53:31Now I realized that I'm painting

53:32a bit of a dramatic picture here,

53:34but I don't think a traffic study is necessarily bringing

53:36to light the reality of this neighborhood

53:38and of this narrow street,

53:39which now accommodate 64 homes and will quickly balloon.

53:43So what I'm urging council to consider

53:45is this decision is being made in a silo.

53:47And I'd like to just share a bit of math.

53:48So right now this development I mentioned

53:50or right now in this neighborhood, there's 64 homes.

53:53There's 142 new units coming in on this development,

53:56which is a three-fold increase.

53:58And the 2016 Guelph Transportation Master Plan

54:00says there's one and a half vehicles per household.

54:02So that's about 200 new cars feeding into lands down drive.

54:05But there's also as council remember development OZS 20-004,

54:09which is 350 new units.

54:12And they leapfrog city council

54:13to go to the Ontario Land Tribunal.

54:15So that's 350 units being decided by the province,

54:18142 units being decided by this council,

54:21in addition to the 64 today,

54:23and the many more developments to come

54:24as developers continue to buy up land on lands down.

54:27So I'm gonna jump right to the point.

54:28I think as I single out these two mega developments,

54:31we're growing to a staggering 556 dwellings

54:34in a little neighborhood that only accommodate 64.

54:37I'm just very concerned about the traffic

54:38this is gonna have and the impact

54:40it's gonna have on traffic.

54:41There's nine driveways backing out of this new development

54:43being built.

54:46I'm just really looking for council's recommendation

54:48on what we can do here,

54:49whether it's installing traffic lights

54:51at the intersection of Valley and Gordon,

54:53traffic lights lands down in Gordon,

54:55speed bumps, speed limits, more enforcement,

54:58just something has to be done.

55:00I mean, honestly, it's just,

55:01it's an issue for pedestrians,

55:02it's an issue for children.

55:03It's an issue for congestion.

55:06I think it gets into my frustration

55:07and I'm sorry I've taken my full five minutes here,

55:08but I just wanna do what's right for the community.

55:11I think it's great that our city is growing up.

55:12We just have to do so responsibly.

55:14And I think council, you are owed transparency

55:17in a traffic study,

55:18so that you know exactly what we're signing up for

55:19in our city.

55:20So thank you again.

55:21I'm grateful for council's time this evening.

55:23And I look forward to seeing these developments

55:24integrate responsibly into our neighborhood.

55:28Great.

55:29Thank you, Neil.

55:30And thank you for not driving

55:31and doing a video delegation.

55:34Honestly, I would not.

55:37Let me see if there's a follow up for you.

55:40Okay, there is not,

55:41but we will definitely take your points into consideration

55:44as we move forward on the decision.

55:45Thank you very much.

55:47Thank you.

55:49I'm gonna try, is Claudia connected?

55:51No.

55:52Okay, Sarah Burns, I say in person.

55:55Yes.

55:56Come on down, Sarah.

55:59Thank you for joining us.

56:00And when the green light goes on there,

56:01you're on, go for it.

56:03Wonderful. Thank you very much.

56:05My name is Sarah Burns

56:06and I am a member of the White Cedar States community

56:08that Neil and Mehdi spoke about.

56:11And I do have some concerns about the proposed development

56:14between Gordon and Lansdown.

56:16And they just kind of reiterate

56:17what Mehdi and Neil both have stated,

56:19but I will share in my own words.

56:21I'm here tonight,

56:24yeah, as part of the White Cedar States neighborhood

56:26to support the concerns related to vehicle traffic

56:28and safety of pedestrians, including young children.

56:31The current state of the neighborhood

56:32poses challenges turning onto and off of Lansdown

56:36and Gordon and Valley Road.

56:38With the anticipated new residents,

56:41it will no doubt increase the challenges associated

56:43with the vehicle traffic.

56:45There's significant challenges with turning onto Gordon

56:48in either direction, but turning left onto Gordon,

56:51or if you're on Gordon and turning left

56:54into Lansdown or Valley Road.

56:56It poses a number of challenges,

56:59waiting at the same time,

57:02there are city bus stops on both sides of Gordon Street.

57:06So when city bus travelers get off the city bus,

57:11they're crossing the road at Gordon

57:13and there's no lights and there's no crosswalks.

57:17So if we increase that with the development

57:19that's going to be between Gordon and Lansdown,

57:21we're gonna see an increased number of,

57:23I think, I guess unsafe crosses of Gordon Street.

57:29And then as well, Neil mentioned,

57:31but the important consideration

57:33of the school bus stops on Lansdowns.

57:35And they're located right now

57:37on where the plan would be for those driveways

57:40to come in and out of the building and townhouses,

57:43which they could be relocated,

57:44but I think there needs to be some considerable thought

57:46to where those are placed

57:48with the increased number of traffic coming on that road.

57:52And then of course, just in relation to the noise

57:54and the numbers of people that are going to be

57:57either walking with pedestrians

58:00or the vehicle traffic coming in and out.

58:02So that's all I have to share.

58:05Thank you.

58:06No problem, Sarah.

58:07Just before you go, Councillor Roark

58:08has a follow up question for you.

58:09Oh, sure.

58:10Okay, yep.

58:11Thanks, Mayor Guthrie, through you to the delegate.

58:12So I'm on the street actually fairly frequently

58:15because we have some friends there

58:16and our kids have friends there.

58:18So there will be the Gordon Street improvements

58:21and the traffic study mentions that, right?

58:25So there will be a turning lane,

58:26center turning lane from Lansdown to Lowes on Gordon,

58:302026, 28 Horizon,

58:33which should help turning onto Lansdown from Gordon.

58:38My question to you is,

58:40do you think that will help at all

58:42for any of the left hand turns from Lansdown onto Gordon?

58:47So, okay, just to clarify.

58:49Yeah.

58:50So on Gordon, there's gonna be a turning lane

58:51in the center there.

58:52That's right.

58:53And you're asking, so when you're on Lansdown,

58:55turning onto Gordon straight, if that turning,

58:58so potentially, I make that turn on to Lansdown frequently.

59:03And there's kind of a rise in the way the road is coming up

59:06and the speed of which the cars are coming from Edinburgh,

59:10like the crossing, you know,

59:12going north on Gordon crossing up over Edinburgh.

59:15So I think it will be challenging,

59:18but I think it would help ease that,

59:22but it also, it's gonna continue to be challenging,

59:25especially if you have the traffic stopped at Edinburgh,

59:30going north, say, and as soon as that opens up,

59:33the flood of traffic that's coming,

59:35trying to get down to court rate,

59:37the speed, you know, the intensity,

59:38the number of vehicles that are coming

59:40is quick considerable.

59:42Yeah, and I'm just wondering

59:43when you're talking about Lansdown,

59:44but Valley is maybe 200 meters from Edinburgh, right?

59:48Maybe you wanna describe what that's like.

59:51And I have had people complain or be concerned

59:54about the folks in the townhomes or solstice too,

59:57running across to catch that city bus.

59:59So they're watching, watching to make the turn.

1:00:01And then the minute they kind of get ready to go

1:00:03and there's a pedestrian coming at them.

1:00:04So I just wonder if you wanna describe that for us

1:00:08and whether you feel that a signalized intersection

1:00:12at Lansdown would be helpful.

1:00:15So I do think it would be helpful.

1:00:18So coming down Valley, as Neil stated, is extremely steep.

1:00:22So you're coming down.

1:00:23So if I have a choice to which road

1:00:26I'm going to be turning left onto,

1:00:28I would go down to Lansdown,

1:00:30still significant weight times, et cetera.

1:00:33When you go down Valley towards Gordon Street,

1:00:36you have the intersection at Edinburgh and Gordon.

1:00:39You have a very busy bus stop

1:00:41and then a very busy traffic

1:00:42with those students going back and forth

1:00:44from not sure what building it is,

1:00:46on the corner across the road.

1:00:48So I think there'll be two stops fairly close together,

1:00:53but it would slow the traffic down

1:00:55as they're going towards court rates,

1:00:57the North on court rate.

1:00:58Okay, thank you very much.

1:01:00Thank you.

1:01:01Great, thank you, Sarah.

1:01:03Nice to see you again, by the way.

1:01:06We go way back, too far back.

1:01:08So nice to see you.

1:01:10Okay.

1:01:13Teresa Donardis is here as well.

1:01:17Thank you.

1:01:21And nice to see you as well.

1:01:22Thank you.

1:01:23All right, I'll turn it over to you.

1:01:24Go right ahead.

1:01:25Thank you for allowing me to speak.

1:01:29I really, I'm just going to be reiterating

1:01:31what everybody else is saying.

1:01:32So I've just made a few points

1:01:33that I think maybe didn't get covered.

1:01:36In terms of your question about the Valley Road,

1:01:40or sorry, the, yeah, the Valley Road exit,

1:01:43the road is so steep that the asphalt

1:01:46actually slid when it was being poured.

1:01:49So that's how steep it is.

1:01:50It's very short and it's icy.

1:01:53And so there is real concern about people sliding

1:01:56because it's so short

1:01:57that you would have no time to really stop

1:02:00if you slid right into Gordon.

1:02:02Visibility is terrible because when you look left,

1:02:04there's actually a bus,

1:02:07what's a bus shelter?

1:02:09And that blocks your view.

1:02:10So you really can't even see down.

1:02:12So I never take Valley Road.

1:02:15This has been, I have a 16 year old, 17 year old daughter

1:02:19who turned to learn to drive,

1:02:21which has been scary to have her going out left

1:02:24on to Gordon Street.

1:02:26And I'm always like, just go right if you have to

1:02:28because it's so hard to turn left,

1:02:33especially when there's any of the high traffic time.

1:02:36So those would be the big concerns

1:02:38that students running across.

1:02:39I know Sarah did mention that.

1:02:41And that is really scary

1:02:43because mostly for them,

1:02:44just that they're running across.

1:02:46I also think that people are taking chances

1:02:48because they don't want to wait.

1:02:50And so people are taking chances to go out.

1:02:52So I do think a light would be a huge impact on Lansdown.

1:02:57I don't know if you could put a light on Valley

1:02:58because there is that light right there,

1:03:00but a light on Lansdown.

1:03:02And then there is the speeding of the traffic down Gordon

1:03:05because it is such a long stretch

1:03:07between Edinburgh and Courtwright

1:03:09that a lot of cars just let it rip down there.

1:03:11And so there, and the buses too are going very fast.

1:03:14The go buses are flying down there.

1:03:16So it's very, very fast.

1:03:19And then as far as Lansdown goes,

1:03:23that is a huge increase.

1:03:24It's a very quiet street right now.

1:03:25It's very narrow.

1:03:26There has been times when there's been problems

1:03:29getting emergency vehicles down there

1:03:31because if there's parked cars,

1:03:32it's not wide enough for that.

1:03:33So that is a concern.

1:03:35And there's also sidewalks only on one side.

1:03:37So students who are, kids coming home from the bus stops

1:03:43or from the Gordon are left to only walk on one side.

1:03:52And I think that's really, really it.

1:03:54I do think that, and then of course Neil did mention

1:03:58that there's also plans for those other two buildings

1:04:02even further on the end,

1:04:04which would then just add increased traffic on that road.

1:04:06And you don't, most people will not take Valley Road to turn.

1:04:10Even if they're going south,

1:04:14they would go to Lansdown to turn

1:04:15because it's just so, it's so difficult to turn

1:04:18at Valley Road.

1:04:19So thank you.

1:04:21That's it.

1:04:22Thank you, Teresa.

1:04:23Let me just see if there's a follow up for you.

1:04:25And there isn't.

1:04:26So thank you very much to the clerks.

1:04:29Claudia available or no?

1:04:31No.

1:04:32That's it for our delegations then.

1:04:34So we're done with that.

1:04:37And I just want to recognize

1:04:39that Councillor Alta's joined us now.

1:04:40So thank you.

1:04:41We have him that's joined us.

1:04:45So this is a decision report.

1:04:47Would someone at least be willing to move the recommendation

1:04:50from, okay, Councillor Chew, Councillor Goller

1:04:53will second that.

1:04:55And I'll turn it back to my colleagues

1:04:57to see if there's any,

1:04:59and I'll just stick with questions at this point only,

1:05:02please Councillor Downer, we'll go with you first,

1:05:05Chu and then O'Rourke.

1:05:06Yeah, thank you through you, Mr. Mayor, to staff.

1:05:10So there's two things I want to talk about,

1:05:13but the first one was identified in a letter

1:05:15that we received, that I received today.

1:05:18I'm not sure if anybody else did,

1:05:19but in the studies of water,

1:05:24there's a lot of people still on well water in this area.

1:05:28Were there any studies done about how this type

1:05:31of a development might impact the groundwater

1:05:34and the well water in the area?

1:05:39Through the mayor to Councillor Downer.

1:05:42I'm not sure specifically with regards

1:05:44to the well water of adjacent properties,

1:05:46but the developer did provide a number of engineering studies

1:05:50which our engineering group did review in detail

1:05:54and are satisfied with in terms of a functional

1:05:58servicing report, grading plans, hydrogeological study,

1:06:04but I don't know specifically if it was with regards

1:06:08to the offsite well monitoring or anything like that.

1:06:12Okay, so that's an impact we don't know.

1:06:14So just on traffic and Councillor O'Rourke

1:06:18has sort of raised this too.

1:06:21You know, there's, we've, every time we get a development

1:06:23along, Gordon along to here, we, you know,

1:06:25there's this in concern around the cumulative effect

1:06:29of all the traffic and we're widening Gordon street

1:06:33at that point and there's going to be left hand turns.

1:06:37Has there been any consideration

1:06:38to lights going at Lines Down?

1:06:44Through the mayor to Councillor Downer.

1:06:48There was a traffic impact study done and addendum,

1:06:51but those did not identify lights

1:06:54at Lines Down and Gordon street.

1:06:58There was, there are Gordon street improvements planned.

1:07:01That was, that came out of a Gordon street EA study.

1:07:04I think that was done a couple of years ago

1:07:06by our engineering headed off by our engineering department.

1:07:10Look at how growth could be accommodated

1:07:13because this is a medium density residential development.

1:07:16It is in the Gordon street corridor.

1:07:17So it is expected that there is increased density

1:07:20along Gordon street as well.

1:07:24There is a development application to the south,

1:07:26which I'm sure everyone is aware of,

1:07:30which is, which does propose a future extension

1:07:33of Lines Down Drive.

1:07:34That is our preference to have the future extension.

1:07:39That is currently, it was an official plan amendment,

1:07:41zoning bylaw amendment and draft plan of subdivision.

1:07:44So the zoning bylaw amendment is currently under appeal,

1:07:47but it certainly is our preference to have that extension.

1:07:51And then there would be a future street A

1:07:53and full lights at the Gordon street in Edinburgh road.

1:08:00But just in terms of the parking study and addendum

1:08:03that were done for this specific application,

1:08:06our traffic staff did review it.

1:08:08This is also a lands down is considered to be a local road,

1:08:11which can accommodate up to 450 vehicles per hour.

1:08:16And even with the proposed development of the addition

1:08:19of 142 residential units,

1:08:21it can still be accommodated on Lines Down Drive

1:08:26without meeting that 450 vehicle threshold.

1:08:30There's still capacity on the road

1:08:32in terms of vehicle capacity.

1:08:35Okay, so just on that extension of lands down

1:08:41to the south to meet up with Edinburgh road.

1:08:43So that's at the OLT now, right?

1:08:46So if that doesn't happen where there,

1:08:49so there'd be lights that would meet up with light,

1:08:52lands down would meet up with lights.

1:08:53Then is that at the time that we would consider,

1:08:56maybe this is a question more to the city engineer,

1:08:59is that the time and what criteria would,

1:09:02would then trigger that on from lands down and Gordon?

1:09:09Because this is sort of out of the scope of this development.

1:09:12Yeah, through the mayor to Councillor Downer,

1:09:14I think in that sort of future scenario,

1:09:16you're contemplating the way staff would review

1:09:20whether or not a signal is required

1:09:22is through warrant analysis.

1:09:23That's how we do that with respect to any location

1:09:25in the city and so through our traffic modeling work.

1:09:28If a warrant was met,

1:09:29then the need for a signal would be identified

1:09:32held into capital budgets in future.

1:09:34And then that's how something like that would come to be.

1:09:36Okay, so at the time,

1:09:38we'll study the impact of what this development

1:09:40and then again, it would be continued upon

1:09:43Edinburgh road not coming through to Lines Down,

1:09:46I would assume too,

1:09:48because there would be traffic that would connect everything

1:09:52up for the folks on Lines Down to get out of the neighborhood.

1:09:56Okay, thank you.

1:09:59Thank you, I'm gonna go Chu or Rourke Pousatil.

1:10:03And then now, Koran.

1:10:05Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:10:09I'm like, to be honest with you,

1:10:12I'm a little frustrated at the situation here.

1:10:15Like I don't blame it on the developer.

1:10:18Like I think I'm just curious,

1:10:22like from Edinburgh road to Lines Down Drive,

1:10:26that's more than 350 meters in distance

1:10:30and on average minimum, like you want 200 meters

1:10:34for a pedestrian eyes crossing.

1:10:38I'm just wondering if there is room within the detailed design

1:10:41that's coming this fall for the warranty improvements

1:10:44for us to consider an evaluation of a crossing on Lines Down.

1:10:51Because you have to look at this contextually,

1:10:53and I, right, right?

1:10:55And like, I'll just leave it at that.

1:10:58Like that's just my question for now.

1:10:59Maybe I have some comments for later.

1:11:05Thanks. So through the mayor and the councillor.

1:11:07So the plan and what was mentioned before

1:11:10is that Lines Down road would connect to Edinburgh,

1:11:14which would go out to Gordon.

1:11:15And Edinburgh has lights currently

1:11:17and is proposed to be the connection out

1:11:20from the residential neighborhood to the lights.

1:11:22So that is their proposal and they're at the road connection.

1:11:25And I just, if I can,

1:11:27just slide back to one of councillor Downer's questions.

1:11:29So the adjacent wells were captured

1:11:32in the hydrogeological report.

1:11:34There's 37 of them, 37 of them, they were captured.

1:11:38And the area of influence was captured.

1:11:39So we kind of know what the impact is.

1:11:41It's two meters off property during construction

1:11:44and dewatering, so it will not impact the adjacent wells.

1:11:48And just the follow up, like,

1:11:52like very clearly, is there any opportunity

1:11:55all through the detailed design

1:11:56that we can consider a P O X, like level one,

1:12:00similar to the one that's being considered on Bond Street,

1:12:03like even any high level conversation.

1:12:09Through the mayor to councillor Chew.

1:12:11So similar to the response to councillor Downer,

1:12:14our PXO system, we follow the Ontario traffic manual

1:12:16and the warrants that are set out in there.

1:12:18And so our team studies those things.

1:12:20I can certainly take your feedback back to the team

1:12:23with respect to the detailed design work that's going on now.

1:12:25And we would love to apply those warrants where appropriate.

1:12:30And one more question, like just through

1:12:32the Goren Street improvements, like,

1:12:34is there any opportunity besides just purely looking

1:12:38through protocol and the Ontario traffic manual

1:12:42that we can consider these things more

1:12:44in a more fulsome contextual manner?

1:12:49So through the mayor to councillor Chew,

1:12:51I do think with respect to the sort of policy side

1:12:54of how we determine the location of future PXOs,

1:12:59the full scope of a program of that type of work,

1:13:02the funding that's allocated to that work,

1:13:04both capital and operating and the decisions required,

1:13:08should be part of likely the update

1:13:10to the traffic calming policy

1:13:11that staff have planned for 2025.

1:13:13Okay, thank you.

1:13:15Great.

1:13:16And for those watching, the acronym means what?

1:13:22PXO.

1:13:23Through the mayor, it means pedestrian crossover.

1:13:26Thank you.

1:13:27Just so everyone understands.

1:13:29Including this guy.

1:13:31Okay, O'Rourke and then Boussatil.

1:13:35Thanks Mayor Guthrie.

1:13:35So I've got a couple of questions.

1:13:37Only because this used to be Ward 6,

1:13:40so we're really close to this development.

1:13:41I'm on that street fair bit.

1:13:43So through you, Mayor Guthrie,

1:13:44just another question about traffic.

1:13:48The transportation study indicates no impact

1:13:51on Gordon Street traffic movements,

1:13:53which is understandable.

1:13:55But, and it does indicate that the intersection

1:13:58at Lansdowne and Gordon has a level of service F as in fail

1:14:02and E as in not very good either.

1:14:06So I'm wondering though, have we looked

1:14:09at the traffic impact on Lansdowne itself?

1:14:12And the question is the distance between Gordon

1:14:18and where both Valley meets Lansdowne

1:14:20and where Lansdowne curves is not very long.

1:14:24So do we have concerns about storage capacity

1:14:27on Lansdowne itself, particularly at peak times?

1:14:33Through the mayor to Councillor O'Rourke.

1:14:37So a traffic impact study and a Dendym were completed

1:14:42and our traffic staff did review it.

1:14:45And with regards to the capacity,

1:14:47the capacity is considered to be sufficient

1:14:51for a local road, even with the increased traffic.

1:14:57Okay, so through you, Mayor Guthrie, to staff,

1:15:00just two questions then.

1:15:02So a lot is going to be contingent

1:15:04on the proposed development,

1:15:06high density at Gordon and Edinburgh.

1:15:10If for some reason there is no fully signalized

1:15:13intersection there, if Lansdowne doesn't extend to Edinburgh,

1:15:18will staff look to fully signalized intersection

1:15:22higher up at Lansdowne?

1:15:24Clearly there's a problem, right?

1:15:26So is there plan B?

1:15:27Because I think that's the concern in the community

1:15:30is how are we getting in and out of our neighborhood?

1:15:35Do we have a contingency plan?

1:15:39Through the mayor to Councillor O'Rourke.

1:15:43From what I understand from traffic staff

1:15:45is there's still this capacity on the local road.

1:15:48And I believe if that is something

1:15:50that we wanted to look at in the future,

1:15:52because we obviously don't know what the outcome

1:15:54of the OLT hearing is going to be,

1:15:57that would be something that is described in the process

1:16:00that our acting deputy CAO has discussed, Mr. Gaiman,

1:16:06with regards to what would need to be done

1:16:08and all the processes that would have to occur

1:16:11in order for that to be studied

1:16:13in terms of signalizing Lansdowne and Gordon.

1:16:18So that would be a future discussion to have.

1:16:21Okay, and through you, Mayor Guthrie, staff,

1:16:24just reflecting on correspondence we got

1:16:26from the Doyle family, they are asking

1:16:30what the coordination will be for that project

1:16:33at Gordon and Edinburgh, and this project

1:16:36to major developments on a short street, as we've heard.

1:16:41So what is the plan for the coordination

1:16:46of those two projects and how do we assess out

1:16:49what the best traffic solution will be?

1:16:55Through the mayor to Councillor O'Rourke.

1:16:59So we don't review applications in piecemeal,

1:17:01we review them cohesively in a coordinated manner.

1:17:05The staff that review applications,

1:17:07review all the applications,

1:17:09we're quite familiar with them all.

1:17:12Both sites are, so the site that we're discussing tonight

1:17:15is designated for medium density residential uses.

1:17:19The site to the south is designated

1:17:21for high density residential uses in our official plan,

1:17:24and it's been that way probably for over 20 years.

1:17:27So with regards to how we look at traffic,

1:17:32the traffic impact studies were done

1:17:34for each application separately,

1:17:36but do talk about existing development,

1:17:40future development, future growth, all that stuff

1:17:42that's done in a traffic study,

1:17:45and looked at comprehensively like that.

1:17:48So as I've mentioned before, the traffic study was done

1:17:53and Landsdown Drive can accommodate this traffic

1:17:57that is being proposed through this development

1:18:02because it is a local road

1:18:03and that would still leave capacity on the local road system.

1:18:07However, our preference is in the ultimate plan

1:18:12would be to have Landsdown Drive extended in the future

1:18:16and have the full signalized intersection

1:18:18at Ennebro and Gordon Street.

1:18:20Great, thanks.

1:18:21So through you Mayor Guthrie,

1:18:21I realize we're talking about the context of the development.

1:18:24I have a specific question for the development itself.

1:18:29Attachment 13 under municipal services,

1:18:31it says it's not expected that the pressure

1:18:33in the development area would be

1:18:35within the preferred operating range.

1:18:39I'm guessing that's water pressure,

1:18:41which can be addressed at time of site plan.

1:18:44So I'm just wondering what this means

1:18:48for the surrounding community.

1:18:49Is this specific to the development

1:18:50in terms of water pressure or is this broader?

1:18:58Through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke,

1:18:59specific to the development.

1:19:01Okay, thank you.

1:19:02And then through you Mayor Guthrie,

1:19:04just curious, initially this project

1:19:07wanted to use outdoor amenity space,

1:19:10basically like their boulevard in front of the building.

1:19:15We know that there's a cycle track

1:19:16that's planned to go there

1:19:17as part of the Gordon Street improvements.

1:19:19So I just want to confirm

1:19:22that the frontage is sufficient

1:19:23for that plan cycle track and the sidewalk.

1:19:29Through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke.

1:19:31Yeah, everything is considered sufficient.

1:19:33The common amenity areas are actually

1:19:36not along Gordon Street,

1:19:37they're actually to the north and the south

1:19:40along the property, the property borders.

1:19:46But everything is sufficient.

1:19:48We have reviewed it in detail

1:19:51with our engineering staff and traffic staff

1:19:55and our landscape staff.

1:19:56Great, thank you.

1:19:57Yeah, that is a nice improvement over the original plan.

1:19:59And my last one, Mayor Guthrie through you is,

1:20:02do we know if this is intended to be condominium

1:20:06or purpose built rental?

1:20:08I'm asking the question just to understand,

1:20:10it's not an opposition to the project at all,

1:20:12but just try and understand the impact

1:20:14on development charges.

1:20:17Through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke.

1:20:19I did ask that question of the consultant

1:20:22and they're not, I don't believe that

1:20:26that has been determined at that time at this time,

1:20:28whether it's going to be condo or rental.

1:20:31Okay, sorry.

1:20:32And through you, Mayor Guthrie,

1:20:33just curious about the timing,

1:20:34if we know when the shovels will be in the ground.

1:20:39Through the mayor to councillor O'Rourke,

1:20:41I was not given a specific construction timeline.

1:20:45There are some additional process planning processes

1:20:47that would have to occur prior to any building permits

1:20:50being applied for and issued.

1:20:52So the apartment block is subject to site plan approval.

1:20:56And then the townhouses, the on street townhouses

1:21:00are subject to future severance applications.

1:21:02So there's still, there's still as a planning process

1:21:04to occur before anything can be built.

1:21:09Okay.

1:21:12We thank you, Bousa Till then Karan.

1:21:15Thank you.

1:21:16And through the mayor,

1:21:17this was something that the first delegation raised.

1:21:21And I've heard consistently throughout this,

1:21:24this initiative about traffic and safety.

1:21:27And, you know, I hear staff's reassurance

1:21:29that lands down can accommodate the traffic pressure,

1:21:32but I don't think that that's resonating with residents.

1:21:36So it was Medi Sargolazi who was asking the question

1:21:41about access to the front buildings on Gordon street.

1:21:45And whether instead of going through lands down,

1:21:47they could be accessed through Gordon street.

1:21:51And, you know, we've heard about this turning lane

1:21:53and so on going into Gordon.

1:21:55I'm very concerned about the traffic, you know,

1:21:58with respect to the reassurance on lands down.

1:22:01And was there any consideration on setting the buildings back

1:22:05on access through Gordon rather than through

1:22:08the more residential area?

1:22:12Through the mayor to the counselor.

1:22:15That was looked at originally prior to the applicant

1:22:18even coming in for a complete application.

1:22:21An additional access on Gordon street is not supported

1:22:24by our traffic staff.

1:22:27The goal is to eliminate accesses

1:22:29to individual developments on Gordon street.

1:22:33So that was something that was raised.

1:22:35And I think it was actually even raised

1:22:36at the statutory public meeting,

1:22:39even if it could be a write in a write out,

1:22:40but that's not supported by staff.

1:22:43The, even in our Gordon street intensification corridor

1:22:48concept plans, which were completed back in 2018,

1:22:52just to show how development could occur within the area.

1:22:56It did not show any connections

1:22:58from the specific development to Gordon street.

1:23:00All the accesses have always been proposed along lands down.

1:23:04So that is something that was considered,

1:23:06but it is not supported.

1:23:09Thank you.

1:23:10That's through the mayor.

1:23:11I'll give comments later.

1:23:12Thank you.

1:23:14All right.

1:23:14Karan, please is my last and then we'll start comments.

1:23:18Thanks.

1:23:20One of the thing mid rise urban design guidelines,

1:23:24some is mitigations are massing.

1:23:30Anything above 30 meter leave has to have some kind of

1:23:36feature.

1:23:37These is two very, very long buildings

1:23:41on this Gordon street.

1:23:44So I am quite concerned that mid rise urban design guidelines

1:23:48haven't addressed.

1:23:49And along with design guidelines are the set principles.

1:23:56I know it's another acronym and I can't be hands for

1:23:59community crime prevention through mine.

1:24:03The man here to me, see me, it does not meet

1:24:08those guidelines nor the set principles.

1:24:12I wonder if staff could address that.

1:24:18Through the mayor to councillor Caron.

1:24:21We have our urban design staff and landscape staff did

1:24:25review the application in detail.

1:24:27I think what you're seeing today is a big improvement

1:24:31from the original application that you saw back in 2022.

1:24:35There is some additional pedestrian entrances to the front

1:24:40along Gordon street.

1:24:41There is an accessible entrance along Gordon street as well

1:24:47with regards to building length of buildings.

1:24:49Both buildings are under the maximum 75 meter length,

1:24:53which is outlined in our zoning bylaw.

1:24:56In terms of stepbacks and everything else, they do meet.

1:24:59They're not asking for any specialized regulations to the

1:25:02zoning bylaw in terms of reduced stepbacks for the building.

1:25:06So they are in compliance with the zoning, the 2023 zoning

1:25:11bylaw and we have worked for the past two years with the

1:25:15developer and urban design, landscape and planning staff

1:25:19are all satisfied with the design.

1:25:22With that being said, they are still subject to site plan

1:25:25approval.

1:25:25So we will be reviewing elevations and renderings in more

1:25:28detail at that stage as well.

1:25:32Okay. And yeah, I recognize each of us alone be compliant,

1:25:36but side by side, it has quite an escape impact.

1:25:42All of my others have been in with respect to traffic

1:25:47management, that was a big...

1:25:49So my last one has to do with the community initiative.

1:25:53I mean, we get these letters along with them with the finish.

1:25:57I know we talked about it a lot when it first came to council.

1:26:01And, you know, at high hopes that we would get some

1:26:06sustainability measures.

1:26:08Still getting these letters that just say, we're going to put

1:26:11in LED lights and energy start appliances, which you can't even

1:26:17buy, a plotter aren't energy start anymore.

1:26:21I see it in the CEI letter, zero, that actually addresses

1:26:26our goals in this city.

1:26:28Do we have any leverage at all at site planning?

1:26:35And to actually get measure real sustainable development standards

1:26:40being there.

1:26:43There's frustration and voice and they're directed towards

1:26:47that all.

1:26:48It's more directed towards development.

1:26:51Like, what can we do from a council perspective at the point

1:26:57in the game to get anything to our goals?

1:27:02Yeah, I'll go to our head planner and manager of our planning department.

1:27:08But this is a reminder, our head planner did a workshop with us a

1:27:13couple of years ago that stated that there's really no levers that we

1:27:17have available to us to do that.

1:27:19But I'll go to Krista.

1:27:22Thank you, Mayor Guthrie to the councillor.

1:27:24So we do have kind of scoped green development standards right now

1:27:30that we have in place, but it is voluntary.

1:27:33They do not have to submit to it.

1:27:35The planning act is very clear on what is required in site plan and what is not.

1:27:40So we do certainly have developers who are willing to.

1:27:42We heard the application before this talking about solar panels on roof.

1:27:47We've had some other developments like that.

1:27:48This development is not proposing that level of detail.

1:27:53And we cannot ask for it.

1:28:00Okay, thank you, Councillor Caron.

1:28:02Oh, it looks like we have Councillor Billings jumping in here.

1:28:04Go ahead.

1:28:06Real quick, through you, Mr. Mayor, if I lived in this neighborhood,

1:28:11I would really want to know when we would see that extension of lands

1:28:16lands down coming out to Edinburgh.

1:28:19And we've known about this proposed option for many years.

1:28:22So I was wondering and I do realize, yes, the development to the south

1:28:27at the OLT and it's subject to subject to, but is there anything that we can do

1:28:32and the city end to move that extension through faster?

1:28:37And if so, is there a timeframe that we could say, you know,

1:28:41we could have this in like three years, four years?

1:28:44Is do staff can staff even predict when we can have this extension

1:28:49and have it come through to Edinburgh?

1:28:55Through the mayor to Councillor Billings.

1:28:58Unfortunately, we don't have a timeline for when that will be in.

1:29:05As I've mentioned before, it is in front of the OLT, the Zoning By-law amendment

1:29:09that is associated with the draft plan and official plan amendment for that application.

1:29:14The hearing is set for March.

1:29:16So and then it would be.

1:29:18I don't know how long it would take to get an OLT decision.

1:29:21But right now, since it is under appeal,

1:29:23we I don't have a specific timeline for when that that could occur.

1:29:28OK, so after that's been resolved through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:29:34Then we have the results of that.

1:29:36Then could the city take a look at that and see if there's anything that we could do

1:29:40to get this extension through sooner rather than later?

1:29:44Or is it really we just have to rely on the developer to the south?

1:29:52Through the mayor to Councillor Billings,

1:29:54I think that's something we could definitely discuss with the developer,

1:29:59along with our engineering and traffic staff,

1:30:01to see what can be done to make it happen faster.

1:30:09After we hear back from the OLT after the full hearing.

1:30:13But at this time, I can't give you a timeline for that.

1:30:18That's all, Mr. Mayor.

1:30:20OK, thank you.

1:30:23OK, you know, just trying to get us focused to to a decision here.

1:30:28I have no further.

1:30:33Questions myself because while I did,

1:30:35but then they've been all asked by my colleagues.

1:30:38So my absence of not asking any questions is not.

1:30:45It's not to say that I don't care about some of those issues.

1:30:47It's just that they've been answered.

1:30:48So if we could just try to, you know, get our comments as quickly as possible.

1:30:54I would appreciate that.

1:30:55So comments.

1:30:57I'm starting with Councillor Busuttil and then a Rourke and then Chu.

1:31:01Oh, you're good. OK, a Rourke and then Chu.

1:31:04Thank you, Marguerite.

1:31:05So when this development application came the first time,

1:31:10I had some concerns because people who live on lands down

1:31:13and who live in the Gordon Street corridor,

1:31:15they know there's going to be a densification and they expect townhomes

1:31:19or an apartment building.

1:31:21They don't necessarily expect both.

1:31:22So it was a lot, right?

1:31:25I will say that this revised plan is significantly better.

1:31:30We're looking at three townhouse blocks instead of four.

1:31:35We're looking at more permeability sort of division between the two apartment buildings.

1:31:40We are looking at improved amenity space.

1:31:42So I think when the original Satchitrae public meeting came,

1:31:46there was some pretty egregious stuff.

1:31:49And I was happy to see maybe not sufficient parking,

1:31:53but certainly compliant with the comprehensive zoning bylaw parking,

1:31:56which is exceedingly important.

1:31:58People won't be able to have visitors who park on Gordon Street.

1:32:02There is not a whole lot of overflow.

1:32:04So I was really pleased to see those concessions being made.

1:32:07And I just want to reassure the community that we will all be watching

1:32:11what happens in terms of traffic there.

1:32:13We will advocate for much more safety on Gordon Street.

1:32:16Everybody wants that.

1:32:17We know what the mid block collisions are on Gordon.

1:32:20And so that can happen regardless of the development.

1:32:25So the development will proceed, complies with everything.

1:32:28It is much better than originally when it originally came to council.

1:32:33And we'll be watching to see what we can do to help on the traffic side.

1:32:38Thank you. And Chu, please.

1:32:40Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, just on the development application itself

1:32:44and the revisions, like I really appreciate the work that staff has done

1:32:48to consolidate some of the outdoor amenity spaces.

1:32:51I think it, like compared to the last version, it's become much more functional.

1:32:55And I can actually see folks enjoying

1:32:59the use of the amenity spaces within development and within the surrounding community.

1:33:04So I think kudos to staff on that.

1:33:06Like I do want to say publicly as well, like I really empathize

1:33:10with all the residents and the folks in the area regarding the traffic situation

1:33:15on Mansdown and on Gordon Street.

1:33:18Frankly, it's quite dangerous, like what's taking place.

1:33:22Like you have a consolidation of students living in the area

1:33:26across the street in the townhouses and in Solstice too.

1:33:31And people jaywalk all the time.

1:33:34Like there is a serious need for staff from the operational side

1:33:38to look at this more holistically, because if we're just following policy

1:33:42and following the Ontario traffic manual to kind of assess

1:33:46when it's appropriate based off of the warrants, I understand that this is something

1:33:50that we're working, that this is what you're constrained by.

1:33:53But if there are any opportunities to really evaluate things like that pedestrianized

1:33:59crossing, like I think the community, it would make a world difference to the community here.

1:34:05And this is something that I'm hoping that you guys could look into,

1:34:09because this is something out of our purview as a governance board.

1:34:13But this is something that needs to be addressed, right?

1:34:15And I just wanted to say that and I'm not usually that vocal, but today,

1:34:19like I really have to make it clear, like we have to look at this seriously

1:34:23because by the time we look at the warrants and the warrants are met

1:34:27for something on Mansdown, like it's too late.

1:34:30The situation is going to be much more worse than it currently is right now.

1:34:35And it's not just perception.

1:34:36It's also like the ground reality.

1:34:39And like from my perspective, it does come across as anecdotal,

1:34:43but you have to like just if you live in the area, like you would understand very clearly.

1:34:48And I know that I understand as well the constraints you're in

1:34:52because this is this traffic engineering has to look at citywide, not just Ward 6 and Ward 5.

1:34:57But we have an opportunity with the Gorn Street improvements

1:35:00and I just want to reiterate there is an opportunity.

1:35:04I would hope for us to have these candid conversations.

1:35:07So with that, I would want to say I support the development.

1:35:10I think on its own, there are a lot of great additions that haven't made, but on our end,

1:35:16if there are ways in which we can improve the situation with traffic,

1:35:19that's something we really have to do. Thank you.

1:35:23Thank you. And Kate and then Downer.

1:35:27Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, I agree with a lot of the comments

1:35:31that Councillor Chew made about pedestrian issues and traffic concerns.

1:35:37I do think we have an obligation to ensure that those concerns are being addressed.

1:35:42I know that we've got the pedestrian master plan upcoming.

1:35:45And I hope that these new developments are being considered when we're talking about things like

1:35:51there only being one sidewalk on lands down.

1:35:54And the fact that there might need to be another pedestrian crosswalk

1:35:59to facilitate the issues around Gordon. Thanks.

1:36:06Great. Thank you so much. Downer and then Caron, I believe.

1:36:10Yeah. Through you, Mr. Mayor, do you mind if I ask another question?

1:36:16Through this way through to Mr. Gaymon. So around those pedestrian warrants,

1:36:21so we have to look at the warrants. And it sounds like there's, you know,

1:36:24a lot of pedestrian traffic, sort of jaywalking all along there now from the buses and the

1:36:30students and solstice and there's students in other buildings.

1:36:34Does either, do the warrants ever take into the account those types of things or will it just

1:36:39strictly look at, does it look at the number of people jaywalking at a certain section of areas

1:36:45or is it, how would, how are those warrants going to work?

1:36:50So through the mayor to Councillor Downer, maybe first I'll take a moment to remind

1:36:54people in the general public to not jaywalk and cross at all appropriate

1:37:00signalized locations. With respect to how warrants work, they take into consideration

1:37:04things like vehicle volumes and pedestrian crossing movements at the same time. And so when

1:37:11kind of both are met, then a warrant is met. So what would initiate it looking at that? Because I

1:37:19know, I know when I think of, I know Gordon Street, we're having one come up at University or Dean,

1:37:25I think, a crosswalk soon. But I think it was initiated by a request of somebody saying,

1:37:32I think it was Councillor Caron and I saying, we think you should look at a crosswalk in this area.

1:37:37How will that be initiated or do we wait for something like to happen or does it get, just get,

1:37:44can we request that be looked at at any time? So through the mayor to Councillor Downer, I mean,

1:37:51certainly requests can come in for traffic studies. So it would be similar to other traffic

1:37:56studies that you've seen come in through your constituents with respect to any sort of traffic

1:38:01related item on a road, whether that's on street parking, speeding, those types of violations,

1:38:06and our traffic staff then consider that information. We also, as I mentioned, are looking at

1:38:11sort of the policy side of that now with plans for updated policy considerations in 2025.

1:38:17So we could make a request now to have that looked at through that pedestrian plan, specifically

1:38:27that area through the mayor to Councillor Downer. So so traffic calming related requests,

1:38:32traffic safety requests, those types of things could come in. Certainly there is a queue.

1:38:37And so staff would take the request, log them, put them into the queue, and then address them as

1:38:43budget and resources allow. That's for traffic calming. This is for traffic for

1:38:49even a traffic calming when they look at it, if it's a traffic safety issue that my understanding

1:38:53is they do it right away. In this case, it's considered people are seeing it as a traffic

1:38:59safety issue, not a traffic, this is certainly calming issue. Yeah. So through the mayor to

1:39:04Councillor Downer, again, it would just it would come in and get logged in sequence with

1:39:08other traffic related service requests. And our traffic staff would handle it as appropriate.

1:39:14Okay, so maybe talk to my ward made about that. Thanks.

1:39:19And if you don't mind, Councillor Cronus, for one second, because I just want to validate

1:39:24we have in the past, I can my memory is usually pretty good. We've done that once as a council,

1:39:32if I recall, and we've done it once at a planning meeting just like this. And I actually think it

1:39:39was, yeah, I'm pretty sure it was when Costco actually came in on Elmira Road. And there was a

1:39:48ton of people on white law that came out and they're like, we can't have this here. And, you know,

1:39:54there'll be too much traffic coming up and down white law. And when we agreed to sort of let that

1:40:00we included a request of staff to do like a follow up year later traffic study,

1:40:07and just to try to make sure that we're staying on top of it. And so that was a motion of council

1:40:11and it was approved. Just that's that's that's what my memory tells me from like 12 years ago

1:40:16or something like that. So did you want to just follow up on that before you would

1:40:19Councillor Cronus? Go ahead. So I ask in a motion that staff through the is it a pedestrian master

1:40:25plan? Look at this specific yes you can intersectioners or Mr. Gaman would it be better

1:40:31to sort of make a request now that that be put in the queue? From a sequencing point of view,

1:40:39I would like to make sure that we just vote on the application first and then I could go to that

1:40:43maybe if I could just have the Terry answer the question as to the best timing of direction

1:40:49from council. There's nothing wrong with direction of council by the way at all. So

1:40:54if now is the moment for that direction, we can absolutely do it. But Terry what would you say

1:40:59back to Councillor Downer in regards to that? Now or later? Through you Mayor, I got three. My

1:41:08response in the moment here would be later, but I just wouldn't mind taking a moment just to check

1:41:12on capital forecast with respect to the timing for the pedestrian master plan. So if you do one

1:41:16moment I can perhaps respond. Yeah, so you want you to contemplate that and I'll go to the final

1:41:21remarks from Councillor Caron and then we'll come back to circle back on this question. Okay,

1:41:25go ahead Councillor Caron on remarks. Yeah, I'll keep my marks. I'm really struck this one. I think

1:41:31it's difficult quite a few significant ways and I'm recommending it and I know that

1:41:38polluted publicly and the council who ever votes against mood with our need for housing and

1:41:46accusing and it's you know, it's raked over the coals for not being supportive of housing and I

1:41:52certainly don't want that to happen because I'm quite of density in housing along our roads. But

1:41:59this particular is the massing, is traffic. It is zedium density and a lot of the site

1:42:09conditions that are being added to the site specific zoning are beyond what I can the spirit

1:42:17of the official plan. I think there's a lot of work that's being done but there's something

1:42:27about this proposal. I think we're moving on something that we know is going to have impact

1:42:37that may be able to be gated and I'm not quite ready to push the button quite yet.

1:42:44But I know we can't defer this. I know we have to make this this decision.

1:42:52Okay, thank you. Let's go back to to Terry and Councillor Downer's question.

1:42:58Would you do you need more time Terry or would you like just to give us an answer on that?

1:43:02Through you Margar three, I think with respect to the pedestrian master plan timing it's still a

1:43:06little bit unclear to me. So I think the preferred approach would be for direction for staff to study

1:43:11this. I would say with a timing of by the end of this calendar year. Okay, Councillor Downer will

1:43:23move that then and send an email to clerk sir. Sorry, so maybe you could deal with the main

1:43:28motion. So just just to check in with with Mr. Gamin again. So it'd be something like this that

1:43:33staff study a pedestrian crosswalk on board in the vicinity of landstown road by the end of Q4 2024.

1:43:43Through the mayor, I think something along those lines would be appropriate. I would add maybe with

1:43:46respect to study the warrants or. Oh, okay, study the warrants. So you could vote on the main motion.

1:44:01Okay, yeah. Okay, then I'll just have some comments before I vote on the main motion and then we'll

1:44:05move to the to the follow up motion from Councillor Downer. One of the parts that about being the

1:44:13mayor is you go last and most of everything has been either asked or said before the vote.

1:44:20So I just wanted to not rehash a lot of what has been said because I'll just say ditto to much of

1:44:26what my colleagues have said. However, just for my own observations, I hope I captured them right.

1:44:34What I found the tone tonight from our delegations and the tone from when I've met some people even

1:44:40in that area that I've gone and seen is they're actually not against the development at all.

1:44:45They just they have some sincere concerns today at present about some of these traffic pedestrian

1:44:55crossing issues. And so they're actually just saying like, hey, we've put this on your radar before.

1:45:01It's still relevant today. And we're just concerned that it's going to be piling on as it continues to

1:45:06have not just this application. And I know we're supposed to only put the blinders on and try to

1:45:11think about just this application. But amongst all the application of stuff that's happening in this

1:45:16area, us as decision makers, we can't sometimes put those blinders on because we are thinking about

1:45:22all the implications of the other things that are happening. So I just want to actually thank the

1:45:27delegates for actually raising it in the manner in which they did. They said like, hey, we get it,

1:45:32we get our cities growing up. But these issues of on the ground reality of where we live and what

1:45:39we live and breathe with every day is actually very real to them. And so I think our concern with

1:45:44wanting to, first of all, us talk about it and ask a lot of questions shows that we are listening.

1:45:50So I hope everyone understands that part and that we're taking it seriously. And number two is it

1:45:55looks like we're having an actual follow up motion, which is extremely rare, like extremely rare

1:46:01to have a follow up motion in regards to something around this issue. So that also I think shows

1:46:07recognition to the people in the area that we're taking it seriously. So I'll leave that part there.

1:46:14And my last comment would just be that, yes, we are in a housing crisis. And we need more housing.

1:46:22And we need this type of housing. This is the density that we need in an area that has been

1:46:28zoned for this and meets all the zoning. And it meets all of the any of the pushback of questions

1:46:35that we've heard from today, our staff have had answered. But studies are there. It meets this,

1:46:41it meets this, it meets this, it meets this. So the position for myself is that this would be

1:46:51probably a major failure if this were to fail and go to the OLT. Because it is a staff recommendation

1:46:58to approve. And it clearly meets all of that criteria that's there. And I don't want to put

1:47:04the corporation in any more financial issues of going to the OLT over matters that like this.

1:47:10And especially when we do need more housing. So I definitely will be supporting it, but I'll be

1:47:16supporting it knowing we're going to be looking into these other issues that are valid for the

1:47:20community as well too. And I think that's been echoed across my colleagues. So with that,

1:47:25I'll call the vote. Is anyone against? Right, that's unanimous. Thank you very much. And now

1:47:33we're going to go to the motion, the follow-up motion. Councillor Downer, how did that work out?

1:47:47So I would move that staff study the warrants for pedestrian crosswalk on Gordon Street in

1:47:53the vicinity of Landsdown Road by the end of Q424. Councillor O'Rourke will second. And I just have

1:48:01one quick question then as a follow-up. Obviously I'm in support of this, but my question to staff

1:48:07is okay, we're going to get some data about this by the end of this year. That's what this motion

1:48:12does. Is that my am I correct? You may have got through that's right. It would be a study to

1:48:17conclude whether or not a warrant in the area is met. Okay. And that will feed very well into what

1:48:22Councillor Chew was asking about for detailed design work on the Gordon Street reconstruction. Am I

1:48:27right? Through you Mayor, I got three. Potentially the only caution I would have for council right now

1:48:36is that if it were warranted then it would need to have some sort of budget consideration. And

1:48:42right now I don't believe that that budget would be part of that project. So there may be some

1:48:45additional work staff have to do to position something like that for you. But as a general

1:48:50concept, I think you're correct. Okay. Okay. Perfect. I am just good. Did you need to continue?

1:48:58You go ahead Councillor Downer. I just need one more sort of request of staff just to make sure

1:49:04that this warrant work is done in September when the students return. So I'm sure that it will be

1:49:09because I know that's always taken into consideration, but that's when the most traffic and when this

1:49:15happens. Doing it in summer isn't sort of doesn't tell us a real story. If that's possible.

1:49:23Through the Mayor and to Councillor Downer, we will do our best to have our resources work towards

1:49:29that. All right. Okay. All right. Okay. Chu and then no Rark. I threw you Mr. Mayor. Can you just

1:49:41clarify for me? I might have missed it. When can you get back to us on the capital

1:49:45forecast for the pedestrian master plan? Mayor and Councillor Chew, city staff are reviewing the

1:49:55capital forecast now with respect to the budget deliberations that have you this fall. And so

1:50:02I don't think I can comment right now on exactly when the timing would be for the pedestrian

1:50:05master plan. Thank you. Or Rark. Thanks Mayor Guthrie. So I'm happy that we're having the conversation.

1:50:13I have a concern around, you know, there's a queuing, etc. Because our own city data show us

1:50:22the severity and frequency of mid block collisions on Gordon between court right and Claire. We know

1:50:30that this is why that center turn lane is so important. We know that originally Gordon Street was

1:50:36imagined to be like a boulevard where it would be trees and people could just zip right into

1:50:40downtown. And so that's why you have these massive blocks where there's nowhere for pedestrians to

1:50:45cross, including at hands drive where people are coming out of that residential area and families

1:50:54are hustling it across Gordon Street to use the little bridge to get up to Rickson Ridge Elementary

1:50:59School. So I'm glad that we're having the conversation. I understand there are many pieces to this.

1:51:05So there is what happens to the development of the south at Gordon and Edinburgh, which will be

1:51:10important because it could provide breaks in the traffic. Do we need a warrant at or do we need

1:51:16some kind of crossing and probably not just a pedestrian crossing, probably a full moves

1:51:20intersection, but we'll leave that to our traffic staff at Gordon and Lansdowne and potentially

1:51:29at hands as well. I mean, we as we intensify as we talk about these walkable complete communities,

1:51:36people need to be able to cross the street to that mixed use to that park to these things.

1:51:41And it is not happening safely on Gordon. So I'm happy to see the motion. I'll be really happy to

1:51:47see it come back. Well, thank you so much. And I'll call the vote then on on that. So is anyone

1:51:54against a follow up motion on the on the crossing review? Nobody? Okay, that's unanimous two. So

1:52:02thank you very much and thank you to our delegates as well. We appreciate your time.