Guelph Police Service Downtown Initiative - 2023-181 Report dated May 31, 2023 be received.

1:07:28the 12th police services downtown initiative. Maybe just as we just did with the last one,

1:07:33would you move the one, the receipt of the memo at least? Yes. And who would be willing to

1:07:39second that Councillor Allt will second that. Any questions on just receiving the memo?

1:07:45No. No comments on that. No. Okay. Oh, okay. Yeah. Councillor Keaton. Sorry, did you have a

1:07:53question or comment? I just had a request for information on the program that I was going to

1:08:01request through either you or Councillor Allt as police board members. I can do this after.

1:08:12No, no, this is the right time. It has to do with the memo. Then we can go to yours after

1:08:19the question. Councillor Goller. Okay. Councillor Keaton, I've lost you on the screen,

1:08:24but I can hear you. Did you want to ask something specific? Yeah. Sorry. Is it going off the screen?

1:08:30Let me see here. Where are we back? Yes, you're here. Yep. Sorry. My iPad is being

1:08:42lost here today. So I just had a question for the police board members to forward to the chair of

1:08:49the police board and get back to us based on some community comments that I've received on

1:08:54both ends of the issue. I'd just like to know how the police department is addressing equity with

1:09:00the new downtown police initiative, but I wanted to kind of give a bit of context. So I'm the police,

1:09:05like I'm a child of a police sergeant and a female perceived white person. So I have

1:09:08considerable privilege in police conversations and I've had to go to the police twice in wealth

1:09:12and both times I felt very comfortable and my issues were resolved to my satisfaction.

1:09:17But not everybody's had this same experience with police, depending on their backgrounds.

1:09:22And this isn't a commentary on our local force, but rather a systemic issue within North America.

1:09:26So the downtown I understand is perceived as unsafe by some demographics because it visibly

1:09:31and has people, some bar coppers and some people suffering from addiction. But similarly, the police

1:09:37are perceived as unsafe by other demographics. And this kind of came about when I had heard of the

1:09:43woman who was attacked in, I believe it was Kitchener and she had asked for the police to

1:09:49not show up in uniform in her neighborhood. And this was a response from her. So I was thinking

1:09:55this is probably something very similar with our community potentially. And even my daughter,

1:10:02who has had zero bad experiences with police, asked why the army was downtown one time when she

1:10:07saw a heavily outfitted police officer in regular patrol during the afternoon on a Saturday. She

1:10:11said, I'm really nervous because she never sees people dressed like video games. So I was just

1:10:15wondering what steps are being considered to address the need for all people to feel safe

1:10:20downtown, including those who are historically uncomfortable with heavily uniform police.

1:10:29Okay, yeah, I, I'll let counselor, because it was to counselor, I think we're on the same page,

1:10:33well, let counselor, all to speak. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie, through you to counselor

1:10:39Kate and I heard very clearly your concerns. I'm going to suggest that that we as members of the

1:10:46police board acting currently as counselors are not in a position to necessarily answer this,

1:10:52but I would suggest that the appropriate route to go perhaps would be to contact

1:10:57Chair Peter McSherry by the police services board for a formal response either from

1:11:04from chair McSherry or from Chief Kobe or the board or perhaps all three.

1:11:09And Mayor Guthrie, I don't know whether that reflects your concerns or not.

1:11:12You have summarized it perfectly. Because it is an operational matter, we are not in a position to

1:11:19be able to answer on behalf of the outside entity being the board that it is. It's the spokesperson

1:11:24who is the chair or the chief. So did may I ask you a question, Counselor Kate, and did you reach

1:11:30out, did you reach out to the chief or to the chair before bringing this question to us today?

1:11:37No, I haven't because I'm sure the process. No, it's okay. I'm not calling you at all. I just

1:11:41want yeah, it's it I just want I was just curious. So yeah, good question. Any question is a good

1:11:47question. Just want to make sure that yeah, and this is for everybody just so they know.

1:11:51It would almost be similar in a way like it'd be similar like in a way almost if a public health

1:11:57question got asked, right, to the chair or to the executive director or CEO of public health,

1:12:04instead of our appointments here just because that's the spokesperson from a governance perspective

1:12:08that needs to answer those questions. So it's not a dismissive answer because it's not worthy of

1:12:13a response. It's just where the question is placed. That's all. I just wasn't sure if I was supposed

1:12:18to ask you as representatives to ask them or if that was something that I don't know any counselor

1:12:24can reach out for sure. In fact, any community member could reach out. Yep. Perfect. Thank you

1:12:29very much. Yeah, no, thank you. Okay, so I'll call the vote then on the memo of just receiving. Okay.

1:12:36All right. Is anyone against just receiving the memo? Okay, so that's unanimous. And then

1:12:43Councillor Goller go ahead with your motion that you wanted to bring forward. Thank you and through

1:12:47your worship. I ask for the memo. I'd like to move that the Gulf Police Services Board

1:12:53request that April 20, 2023 to use $260,000 of the police operating contingency reserved

1:13:01be approved. And I have a seconder, Councillor Oroch. Okay, thank you very much. So we have a

1:13:07seconder. I have a question for Councillor Allt, please. Thank you very much. Through you, Mr.

1:13:14Mayor. To Councillor Goller, I have no problem with the motion at all, but I believe for the public,

1:13:19I was wondering if you could please provide some clarification on what its intent is.

1:13:24Absolutely. I am one of the counselors that sits on the board of the downtown BAA along with

1:13:30Councillor Downer. And one of the main issues that we're hearing from our downtown businesses is the

1:13:35need for more of a police presence in the downtown. And from residents that live in the downtown,

1:13:43I'm hearing from many of my constituents who are in Ward 2 that they are often feeling unsafe

1:13:48when they are out and about in the downtown. And that is mainly due to a large presence of

1:13:56community members who are assets and services at Royal City Mission and other downtown locations

1:14:02who may be dealing with mental health issues, with addictions issues, who may be experiencing

1:14:10homelessness. And there's just not enough services and supports available in terms of

1:14:19mental health supports, addiction treatment facilities in the city. There is a big gap.

1:14:24And one of the things that the police presence do is they provide a bit of comfort for the

1:14:31community members and for the downtown businesses that when they have an issue

1:14:36with in the downtown, there's someone that they can access. So it has been quite a positive

1:14:42experience. Last summer, there were resources reallocated to have additional police who were

1:14:50previously in schools. They were put in the downtown for the summer. And there was a very

1:14:54positive response that just the extra people walking around keeping an eye on things made a

1:15:00positive impact. And by all intents, we really should have other levels of response to the

1:15:09issues of homelessness, of addictions of mental health. But in the absence of an immediate response,

1:15:17we do want to see an ICA. We as the community members that live and that go to downtown,

1:15:24and we as the downtown businesses want to see more of a police presence just to help with

1:15:30everyday maintaining the comfort in the downtown. I hope that answers your question,

1:15:36Councillor Allt. Thank you. I do have a couple of follow-ups and perhaps also a clarification

1:15:42because I do want to be clear that it is the chief of police responsibility to assign staff where

1:15:47it is considered to be appropriate. But this particular request is in tandem with a request,

1:15:53I believe, from Chief Kobe as well. So it's not out of the ordinary. But I do have one very

1:16:00important question for you, Councillor Goller, and it stems from your comments. And I'm sure I

1:16:06know the answer already. You are not in your remarks implying that the downtown is unsafe for

1:16:12anyone, whether they be shoppers, consumers, or the homeless receiving support or whatever. I presume

1:16:19that's the case. Is that right? Well, so this is the challenge that the downtown,

1:16:27depending on where you are, you could be going downtown and when there's a number of people

1:16:35that are congregating on the streets, if someone is experiencing a mental health crisis,

1:16:41you could feel unsafe. Absolutely. And I think that having more presence of people that can

1:16:45provide supports, direct people to the right services, that is helpful. I think we are getting

1:16:51to the point where I have constituents who are writing me a letter saying, you need to declare

1:16:56a state of emergency. We have a mental health crisis in the city and we need action immediately.

1:17:02So I'm not going to get into debate with all due respect to things. I do feel quite safe downtown.

1:17:07And while I do not disagree with you about a mental health crisis in Guelph, in Ontario,

1:17:12and in Canada, I do not think that we should necessarily confine our concern for that too,

1:17:17policing in the downtown. Absolutely not. This is one of many responses that are needed.

1:17:27Really what we need is provincial funding and federal funding for housing,

1:17:31for mental health supports, for addiction treatment. But even if that funding is made

1:17:36available at some point, it takes time. We saw with Grace Gardens that funding was given to

1:17:41build permanent supportive housing and then it takes time to build the permanent supportive housing.

1:17:46I think there will be other meetings later next month. We have county coming to talk to us about

1:17:55social housing and the cost for that. And at that time, we can have more conversations about this,

1:18:01what we can influence from a municipal perspective. I think this is one of many tools

1:18:05that are needed to address the issues. All right. Thank you to the two of you.

1:18:14I think I would just like to comment just on, I think, over the overall conversation.

1:18:23I just feel like I need to sort of say something. So I'm glad Councillor Allt sort of jumped in.

1:18:29I just don't want there to be a constant connection of a narrative that those experiencing

1:18:37homelessness or mental health and addictions equals some kind of a unsafe atmosphere or

1:18:45immediate only police response that's required because even as all chiefs everywhere will say,

1:18:54we cannot police our way out of this. So I just want to say that kind of out loud.

1:19:00And then the other thing though I would say is one of the things that I'm really proud of for

1:19:07the police services is that they are very much data driven and they are collecting a ton of data

1:19:14over this pilot project. And that is what this is. It's a pilot project to actually see like how

1:19:20many interactions are happening. What type of interactions are they and what raises itself

1:19:27to where an arrest or a charge was actually done, which is where an actual police officer is needed.

1:19:33Where are the interactions where they weren't? And to be able to collect this data through this

1:19:40pilot program, which is what this funding is to go towards, will enable the police board,

1:19:45the public to be able to weigh and have a conversation later on in the year after the pilot

1:19:50project is done to see not only the data and the metrics captured in that, but also to get a sense

1:19:58of feedback, just normal feedback, exactly as you said, Councillor Coller, from citizens,

1:20:03from businesses, from the DGBA, from us and so on. So has the overall narrative and response for

1:20:12the last month or so that this pilot project's been going been positive? I would say yes for all

1:20:17those reasons. But I think I'm really interested. I'm sure we all are. What's the real numbers in

1:20:23the data and the metrics? How is it working? And that's a fair question to be asking when we

1:20:30are looking at giving $260,000 to a project. We do need to have that to discern

1:20:38where we go in next steps. So I just want to make sure people are clear that we're not going to police

1:20:43our way out of this. This is a response not so much always attached to the narrative of some of

1:20:49the issues experienced in the downtown, but it will give us the ability to have another conversation

1:20:54at a board level, I'm sure, later on. Thank you. I just wanted to make sure I was trying to be as

1:21:00clear as I could there. Just did not leave it sort of hanging. Councillor Caitlin, I saw your hand

1:21:05go up and then I saw O'Rourke and Caron. Okay. Go ahead, Caitlin. Thank you. Through you to Councillor

1:21:14Gullard. I'm just a little bit confused. Is this the same thing as what was proposed earlier?

1:21:22So are we just moving funds from the reserves that exist into the police reserves for this pilot

1:21:29program or is this something new? This is not something new, Councillor Caitlin. When it comes

1:21:36to the budget, there will be a request at that time for this to be made permanent, but maybe.

1:21:43But for now, this is just, yeah, it's not a new program. Okay. Would we be getting a presentation

1:21:52on the outcome of it before the next steps? If you don't mind, I'll answer that, Councillor Caitlin.

1:21:59Yes, we have been indicating that all of this will come back to the police board. Thank you very

1:22:05much. You got it. You got it. O'Rourke and then Caron. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Through you,

1:22:11I have two questions just for clarification and then a comment. I'm wondering, so through you,

1:22:21Mayor Guthrie, Councillor Gullard brought the motion, but Councillor Allt and yourself are on

1:22:26the police services board. So I'm just wondering if there's a reason why it wasn't tabled by one of

1:22:32you and if you have any concerns about this? Well, I can't move motions here because I'm the chair.

1:22:41That is true. So that's okay. I wish I could. I'd have 10 motions at a time. That's good.

1:22:47And before the meeting, Councillor Gullard just indicated that he wanted to make sure it went

1:22:53forward. Okay. And Councillor Allt immediately was like, yeah, and I'll second it. There's no reason

1:22:57why there was one or over the other. It was just getting it done. Okay. But Councillor Allt,

1:23:03you need to answer because you were asked, I guess. That's fine. That's fine. Okay. Second question?

1:23:08Second question just for clarification. This is taking funds from the police's own surplus account

1:23:15and then transferring it so that they can use it. This is part of their surplus. This

1:23:20is theirs really, right? The answer is yes, but I think our CFO should make sure the mayor is saying

1:23:28the right thing. So through the mayor to Councillor Allt, that's correct.

1:23:33Terrific. Thank you, Ms. Baker. And through you, Mr. Mayor, just a comment around,

1:23:40definitely, golf police are very data driven. We've seen that. They know where they have the

1:23:44highest incidence. There's a lot of desire from the community to have community-based policing,

1:23:50in part to de-escalate some of the interventions. And there was an officer previously, I think,

1:23:56Officer Mark, and he was kind of beloved by everybody so that when there's a problem,

1:24:01the officer is not showing up in a moment of crisis. They're a person who has been helpful or

1:24:07they have been present. It means we've got first responders who are walking around downtown and

1:24:12knowing people. And I think that's, I think it's important. And I will say, I think it's important

1:24:18that we recognize the good work that our police officers do because, frankly, there's a trend

1:24:25nationally and they can be very vulnerable. So I appreciate their presence and their work

1:24:30downtown and throughout the city. Thank you very much. And Karan, please.

1:24:35I could not have articulated that. My comments as well as as Councillor Awerke and just

1:24:40encouraging those who are watching and anyone who reads the media out of this meeting to please

1:24:45come downtown because that data driven approach means we need our citizens, we need people shopping

1:24:50and coming downtown for all the right reasons and to be able to have that comparative data. And

1:24:58I certainly feel safe downtown and I hope our residents do as well.

1:25:01Great. All right. Thank you. And thanks for the discussion and and context there. I appreciate

1:25:09it. It's been moved and seconded. So I'll look to you okay, Councillor Allt? Yeah. Okay. I'll look

1:25:15to call the vote then. All those not in favour, please raise your hand. Okay. So that's unanimous

1:25:22as well. Thank you so much. And as I said, the public appointment has already been done.