Table 3, row 1.2 of the Delegation of Authority By-law, included at Attachment-7 to the 2023 Governance Review dated June 6, 2023…

10:54So if you are here to speak especially about strong mayor powers and how it intersects with the procedural bylaw, go for it.

11:04If you're just here to rally against the provincial government and that's your only statement you want to make, that is out of order.

11:14Okay. So I just want to be very clear about that. You can go to Mike Shreiner, unfortunately, our MPP. That is our provincial representative that you can go and speak to about that issue if you wish.

11:24But tonight we do have the procedural bylaw and if you want to speak about how the intersection of strong mayor powers intersects with that, fair game.

11:32Everything else I'm going to have to call it out of order and I don't want to. This is the position I have as chair. I have to uphold the procedural bylaw that we have.

11:40So please just be respectful of that upfront.

11:44Second thing.

11:46Yes.

11:48New worship perhaps to help set the stage we received information from the clerk and about what we could and could not move as motions.

11:57And I think perhaps that information might be helpful for the public to know that some things, you know, we cannot as city council move a motion against something the province.

12:08Thank you. So I, as I was saying, the second thing.

12:13We're getting there. So the second thing is maybe people missed it. And I own. I have no problem saying this out loud. I own if my clarity hasn't been very good.

12:26I own that. I have no problem saying that out loud. But here's the clarity that you need then just in case you're wanting to come up and you're prepared to say something.

12:34Here we go. This mayor is getting the strong mayor powers on July the 1st.

12:40I'm the first one to have these powers.

12:44And on July the 1st, there are three elements of the act of the legislation.

12:51That I am allowed to either retain.

12:56Or to delegate back.

12:59And in all three areas.

13:01I am delegating back to exactly where they should be.

13:06One around the hiring and firing of the CIO.

13:10The second around organizational structures and the mayor can go in and deal with managers or directors at different levels within the within the city hall.

13:21And the third one is around appointing or not appointing chairs of committees, vice chairs, things like that.

13:28Those three issues are the only ones that the mayor is allowed to retain.

13:34Or to give back on July 1st.

13:38Those first three orders are going to be to delegate back.

13:43In other words, status quo.

13:47So be very clear on that if you've created delegations or you're about to come online to talk about how somehow there's something different there. I made it very clear. So maybe you can just be made aware on that.

13:57Then the others, the third part, which is kind of what to go on Sir Gowler said, for those that are here thinking that we can stop this, we can't.

14:05Let me repeat that for those of you thinking that we can stop this, we can't.

14:10This is legislation.

14:12It amends the act to what it is. It is what it is. We cannot like it. We can like it if you want to, but we can't change it.

14:21It is what it is.

14:23So with those parameters in place, I wanted to make sure that before we have a lot of delegations come forward, which you have every right to do.

14:32That you have to stay within those parameters around how it intersects with the procedural bylaw and to make sure that you are understanding where this mayor stands and sits currently.

14:45And what is and is applicable to us as we move forward as it's legislation or not.

14:53The final thing is, is that as it's been publicly posted, our staff have waited through this as much as they could over the last seven days.

15:01But they've already indicated that there's going to be a September meeting about this very issue.

15:08So if you're here today and you have created a delegation for this issue, so be it.

15:17But perhaps there is the right time in September when this will actually be an agenda item where you can actually speak to this issue as well.

15:28I just want to give everyone the heads up that that is something that our clerks and our legal and our staff and all intergovernmental staff have all pulled together to make sure everyone's aware of.

15:38So there's the foundational sort of setting the stage of where we're at.

15:42And that's where we're going to start with our delegations under that pretense.

15:47And everybody has no more than five minutes. I'm not going to interrupt anybody. You have the five minutes and that's of course you're not on topic.

15:55And so please I'll start as we start the timer as you come.

16:01And what else is it going to say? Oh, you've heard me say this. If you've been here before, many of you have. So you've heard me say this before.

16:10We don't mind the word ditto. So if someone in front of you says the exact same thing that you were thinking of and you came and you want to say ditto, we're good with that. We hear you.

16:21Okay. And with that, we'll start with our first delegation. David Douglas is joining us by phone. I believe David. Can you hear me? Hello, David. It's a cam. Mayor Guthrie. Sorry. Can you hear me?

16:37Hello. Hi, David. Hi. Oh, there you are. David. It's Mayor Guthrie. We can hear you good. Are you all right?

16:53Yes, indeed. Ask you to give me a little slack on my timing. I'll try and stay within the five minutes.

17:05All right. Well, I won't start the clock until you start. I'm going to try to make sure that I'm fair to everybody though. So please make sure you try your best. Okay. Go for it.

17:14Thank you. First, I want to state that Councillor Bylaw is inextricably bound up with the implementation of the legislation.

17:29Operationally, they are in every way, closely bound in and not separate. We know that any application of Bill 3 in our community, ethical matters that you're well aware of, so it is a troublesome and controversial bill.

17:47I'm on record myself as publicly opposing the application of this undemocratic legislation to my community. The dilemma that Councillor is now in and the challenges for effective governance and the procedural bylaw all emanate from the fact that you have been in no factual basis on your governance policies and procedures.

18:20I cannot overstate this. It never demonstrated supply of housing. So, however, this falsely, the falsely has followed actually the beer face residential land which is a report documenting this fact.

18:55We all know that the many causes in housing, Banking Canada.

19:09Hi, David. I'm sorry. I'm going to have to interrupt you. It's Mayor Guthrie. I've stopped the time to give you that your time back, but I do need you to make sure that you're speaking directly to how it intersects with the procedural bylaw.

19:20We're not here to talk about Bill 23 or anything else and that has to take place. So I'm giving your full time. I just want to make sure that you're speaking directly to the agenda item that's in front of us. So I'll turn it back over to you. You go ahead.

19:36Okay. So the question is, I think we've asked about the calls, effects connections that underpin this bill and therefore underpin the significant changes that are going to take place to the procedural bylaw.

19:48The clearing insult as I see it is that to your credit, it is your practice as city council to make decisions on the basis of presented evidence. This is how it should be done. This is how you do it.

20:05You're being a course on the basis of a tired political mantra. So we really do have a challenge before as exactly as you say, Mr. Mayor.

20:21Now, if you can somehow rather reconcile all in its application with your conscience, we should venture on essentially in damage control.

20:35We will all have to find ways to minimize local government for starts in this matter. I would urge council to publicly endorse the unanimous decision to realize it in action.

21:04We commit to a collegial and a collaborative modus operandi enshrined this in the procedure bylaw and in effect do not in your actual practice exercise the autocratic mayors can be done if we require some creativity, certainly a substantial rewriting of the procedural bylaw before you.

21:28And it will require leadership in developing your power. But it may function as the maiden wealth.

21:46A response to this legislation and the challenges of the procedural bylaw made in wealth interim solution.

21:53Thank you so much. I appreciate your delegation. Let me see if there's a follow up question for you.

22:06And there is not so thank you very much for joining us.

22:09Thank you.

22:11Hope you feel better by the way.

22:14Thank you.

22:15Okay.

22:17Kevin Bowman is next also joining us by phone. Kevin it's Mayor Guthrie. Can you hear me okay.

22:32Star six Kevin. If you hit star six that might help you unmute.

22:39Hello, how can you hear me now.

22:41Yep, you're coming through great. Yep. Thank you very much for joining us.

22:45And I will give you your five minutes whenever you start. So go ahead.

22:51I will be brief.

22:54The, as the mayor mentioned, the provincial legislation is coming into effect on July 1st and strong mayor powers are unfortunately going to be in place whether council.

23:04And the mayor want them or not. They cannot refuse.

23:08You know, this is yet another yet another example of how municipalities have no rights under the law and are not protected from provincial abuse and meddling.

23:16That said, I was very pleased by the mayor's September statement defending local democracy and slamming the strong mayor powers is undemocratic.

23:25And I'm very pleased to hear that he's pledged to delegate those powers he can back to council and the CEO to maintain current practices.

23:35However, the mere fact that these powers exist will change people's behavior and impact the institution of council.

23:45It's possible. I hope this doesn't happen, but it's possible the mayor could change his mind in the future or we could have a different mayor in the future who doesn't feel as their current mayor does.

23:54And then we'll be playing a whole different ball game.

23:58So, you know, in the long term, I understand that the provincial legislation is provincial legislation and the council cannot go against it.

24:07At the moment, but these powers in the long term need to be abolished. And I strongly urge council and the mayor to work with staff and other to make sure that the province abolishes these powers.

24:19Yeah, sorry, Kevin, I'm just going to interrupt you. We have to make sure the delegates are speaking directly to how this may intersect with the procedural bylaw.

24:28So I've stopped the time.

24:29Yeah, I'm just coming to that.

24:30If you could, if you could make sure we get to that, that would be great. Thank you.

24:34Yep, no problem. I'm just coming to that.

24:38See, I encourage you to work with staff and other municipalities to ask the province to abolish these powers.

24:44Not sure exactly how to go about that, but I look forward to hearing what you have planned. You have a lot of public support. We're ready to help.

24:51So my question regarding the procedural bylaws, my understanding is that the procedural bylaw as proposed right now, if passed, would essentially be the rules unless the mayor at some point in the future decides to exercise any of these powers.

25:09Is that correct? Is there some other way that the Stugmaier powers is affecting the procedural bylaw that I'm missing? Can somebody clarify?

25:17So Kevin, we can take any, I've stopped the time to be respectful to you, which I wouldn't normally do, but I am doing that. So we don't inter, sorry, we don't like kind of any interplay through a delegation.

25:32But if you have a question that spurs on one of our councillors or even myself to ask staff after the delegations for any clarity, we're happy to do that for you. We just can't, you know, banter back and forth.

25:44But I'll continue the clock for you and you continue. Okay.

25:48Okay. Yeah, that was the conclusion of my delegation. So whenever you get a chance to address the question after your other delegations, that would be great. Thank you.

25:57Okay, sounds good. Thank you.

26:00And any questions as follow up seeing and hearing none. So thank you very much, Kevin.

26:07Thank you. Thank you.

26:09So Susan Watson, you are next and you're here in person and Lynn Grist is Lynn here. Yes, you're in the wings. Okay.

26:18Susan, thank you for joining us and I'll start the timer whenever you're ready. Okay.

26:22Testing the mic that's working for everyone. Yep. Okay, great.

26:27Mayor Guthrie and members of council. I was pleased to read your statement of yesterday and today that you will be delegating key, key powers back to the whole of council.

26:37Given the multiple impacts of strong mayor powers on the procedural bylaw, it's clear that you will need to refer the bylaw back to staff for further resist.

26:46And that that will be happening in September, but please direct staff to have the delegation of authority. The mayor has outlined embedded in the procedural bylaw.

26:58Zach Taylor, a political science prophet Western says that cities also need to put transparency and reporting requirements on the use of strong mayor powers in their procedural bylaws.

27:10Any actions taken must be communicated in writing and made public on council's direction. I think staff should discern what kind of notice should be required and what public reporting mechanisms would be appropriate and then bring those recommendations forward.

27:25Another detail. There's a recommendation in the suggested amendments that council delegations be cut from 10 minutes to five at statutory planning meetings.

27:34Are you allowed to overrule provincial legislation in this regard? I have to say it's not a great look, especially in the same meeting you are bringing forward the community consultation framework.

27:44So please do not approve that amendment.

27:48I think a key thing the community needs to see it council tonight is a motion like the one that was passed unanimously in September opposing bringing strong mayor powers to Guelph.

27:59This is the first council meeting since the announcement of the extension of strong mayor powers on June 16th, and it just so happens that the procedural bylaw is something which is particularly impacted.

28:11We now have five new members of council and I'm sure citizens would like to know where you stand.

28:16And I think it's also fair to say there's been some disorientation among Guelph citizens.

28:22While Mayor Guthrie was clear on his stance on strong mayor powers before the election, it was confusing to see him standing beside Minister Clark for the announcement and then being quoted in the promises press release as saying citizens expect expect results and tools such as this can help us achieve them.

28:41Mayor Guthrie we need something on record at council on your position, not just on Twitter as to where you stand now in the overall legislation.

28:49I know that council can't overrule provincial legislation, but you are free for the moment to state your opposition to it.

28:59I have to say I'm quite disturbed by this just a tool in a toolbox framing minimizing what is really going on.

29:07Strong mayor powers are not a tool in a toolbox. They are a radioactive dirty bomb, which will contaminate and blow apart local democracy.

29:17I do not accept that a one third vote of this council will enact housing legislation going forward, and no one around this horseshoe should either.

29:29Until now, our procedural bylaw says that emotion fails on a tie.

29:36We are now entering uncharted territory where Ontario municipalities are unique among Western democracies in a banding abandoning majority rule.

29:47Local democracy is being dismantled. I think it's appropriate that the anthem began this true North strong and free.

29:54You don't draw a line in the sand. Now you will find the list of minority driven provincial priorities expanding.

30:02The this incursion of provincial authoritarianism needs to be stopped dead in its tracks.

30:09And moreover, you need to look at all the means within your disposal to launch a counter offensive to reclaim lost territory.

30:17There is one straightforward thing you can begin to consider back in February, you were encouraged to sign a housing pledge.

30:25And we know the numbers in that pledge are fiction is strong mayor powers were the reward for signing that pledge.

30:33I think you should consider rescinding it.

30:36Then perhaps Doug Ford will rescind his gift of strong mayor powers and at any rate you will have sent a powerful message.

30:46It's astounding to me that Ontario mayors colluding with Doug Ford don't see that they are the tools in Doug Ford's toolbox in acting autocratic and undemocratic powers in their communities at his best.

31:01American strong mayors are not beholden to state governors.

31:05Councilors you need to channel your inner lot of mirrors the lens key and mount a counter offensive to protect local democracy.

31:15And Mayor Guthrie, I am relieved that you have chosen not to be a tool like Patrick Brown. Thank you.

31:23Thank you right on the dot appreciate your presentation. Is there any follow up questions.

31:29No, don't hear us. Thank you very much and linguist you were in the wings.

31:34So you are coming for his Werner here. It's Werner in the okay, you're in the wings. Okay.

31:48And again, I appreciate everyone so far like trying to make sure that there's speaking focused to the intersection of that with the procedural bylaw.

31:57So I do thank you for that. Okay, Lynn. Thank you for coming.

32:01I will start the timer whenever you wish. Thank you.

32:06Guthrie counselors and fellow wealth residents thank you for the opportunity to speak to council on matters related to the procedural bylaw.

32:13And I do have to say it's about three and a half years since I've been here. I'm sorry.

32:19You want me to move this. All right. Okay. Sorry. Can you can you all hear me now. Okay.

32:26The good news is that it's three and a half years since we've been back at council and I want to just thank everybody for helping us through COVID.

32:35I may not agree with you on stuff and it's not in my thing but boy you did a good job for us all in Guelph and I am enormously grateful so thank you.

32:44Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. So, okay, I'm going to start again, you know I'm going to speak about the procedural bylaw. That's what I'm here for.

32:52Our city staff I'm sure have been working on updating the procedural bylaw for some time. And the recent announcement by the provincial government to extend to extend its bill three legislation to an additional 26 municipalities including wealth will of course mean portions of the bylaw will need to be revisited.

33:12Councilors and the mayor are aware that there are strong opinions related to the provincial strong mares act.

33:19And I am grateful to hear that our mayor like so many of the mares of these of those cities, which have been provided with those powers by the province have publicly stated that they see no need to change the collaborative and consensual way in which they do business.

33:36Thank you, all of you, and all to all of the other mares to it is so encouraging that so many mares and cities have indicated that they do not wish to undermine undermine the democratic process currently in place at the municipal level, and to uphold maturity decision

33:54as a foundation of our democracy. To affirm that positioning wealth now and for the future. I would ask the mayor and council to direct staff to, first of all, enshrined the delegation of powers which the mayor wishes to seed into the procedural bylaw.

34:16Secondly, I would have a requirement of notice and reporting of any use of strong mayors powers to counsel, because there are some powers which that the mayor bylaw may not seed, but you as council need to know when and if the mayor or any subsequent may uses them.

34:35The third thing I would suggest is that you pass a motion reaffirming wealth city councils opposition to the strong mayor legislation in September, which you did in on September the 14th, 2020 Sue.

34:48It was passed unanimously, I would add, however, that then counselor sucks Salisbury was not present for the vote, and counselor Gibson was also not present for that vote.

35:00I have one further ask of the mayor and council, not for tonight, but for a near future council meeting.

35:08The requirement of a majority vote is currently embedded in the procedural bylaw it says that emotion fails on a tie vote.

35:16I'm delighted the mayor has indicated that he is wishes to neutralize those powers by delegating authority back to council, but sadly some of the slightly more toxic and undemocratic aspect aspects of the strong mayors act still exist for example, housing bylaws passing with a minority vote.

35:36In February, 2013, sorry, 2023 city council pastor housing pledge. I believe that all council made this pledge in good faith to ensure that the residents were not in the vernacular holding the bag for the costs of provincially mandated revised development charges and putting the current services that they rely on on being underfunded because of these new costs.

36:02Sorry, Lynn, I just got to bring it back to the procedural bylaw. Okay, okay, sorry, I don't.

36:07It's okay. It's okay. I agree.

36:11I thought this might be slightly out of order. I am looking at my counselor counselor or this is about taxpayers money and increases in taxes and I would be extremely grateful.

36:22I would like to thank the council for the support that they have provided.

36:25Council or if you would bring it to council at a more appropriate date, especially after July the 11th when you've had your report from your staff and from consultants on DC's.

36:37That's all I have to say. And thank you very much. Okay.

36:40Thanks Lynn. Appreciate you coming down and speaking and no problem.

36:44Thank you very much and okay.

36:47Council. Apparently your counselor.

36:49That's not a question, but thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Perhaps Ms. Christ you and I can speak at some later date and I can understand the scope of what it is your request.

36:57That would be absolutely great. I would love to do that. Thanks. Thanks everybody.

37:02Werner, you were up next and then we got Scott Frederick who will be on video.

37:12Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Mr. Mayor, council members.

37:16I'm, this is going to be short and sweet because what I want to just express is that actually as with Susan, I mean, I really don't want to be here because I wish this was not happening.

37:28And of course it is legislation. So, you know, but as Canada was playing.

37:34I thought it was about, you know, it's a matter of protecting democracy.

37:38And when we decide to support something that says a third can carry the vote, instead of saying it's the majority that everybody has an equal vote.

37:50Everybody is worth the same rather than some strong man, whether in Toronto, or perhaps in this council has the vote above everybody else.

38:01That's wrong. I love the city. I love this country. My children are here. My grandchildren are here.

38:07I worry about what would happen if this, this continues. So yes, it is legislation, but I implore you keep up the resistance to this and and not let it continue as for the procedural bylaw.

38:25Yes, the procedural bylaw, please enshrine all these measures that have been so eloquently put forward that no mayor, and I appreciate what you wrote about delegating, but you didn't delegate at all.

38:40You didn't say no, it's not going to go because you can't, of course. Okay, I agree.

38:45It's a matter of then standing up and saying I reluctantly accept these things, like literally saying I am against it.

38:53I may have to do it, but it's wrong. And so what I hope you will do in the future is speak out stand up against it.

39:02We will have to wait until our next vote comes with the legislature. But as we're the procedural bylaws, please put everything into effect that you can to protect the democracy of this chamber.

39:14Thank you. So thank you. Thank you. Just before we go away. Just in case there's a question. Is there anything.

39:19No, okay. Thank you. Thank you.

39:22Thank you very much. Okay, Scott Frederick on video Scott. It's mayor Guthrie. Can you hear and turn on your video for us?

39:32Can you hear me now?

39:40Yes. Yeah, we can hear. Are you wanting to turn on your video or do you want to just do audio?

39:45Okay, I'm going to turn it around.

39:48Okay, good.

39:50So I'm going to talk about this short.

39:52A big plus one to the previous speakers.

39:56And with respect to the governance review and procedure bylaw, I'm going to ask that you do whatever is needed to lock up the strong mayor power.

40:06Nets in Ontario. We've seen mayors and councils set aside the powers. Ottawa has done it.

40:11Toronto will soon do it.

40:13And I don't have a full count with many other municipalities have done it and others know that we'll do it.

40:19I'm not sure how they're doing it, but they're, they're finding a way.

40:23The interior governance mandated that we have this tool, but we don't really need it. This council has shown that they can work together and get things done and approve housing.

40:33It's been said that we can keep the tool in the toolbox and only take it out if it's really needed.

40:38The problem with that is that the threat that a tool may be used is almost as bad as using the tool itself because of the chilling effect of the threat.

40:48We need to ensure that there are owners checks on the use of these powers.

40:53We need to lock the tool up so it won't be used as much as possible.

40:58So, I've three asks in support of this.

41:01That there be a requirement of advance notice and reporting of any use of these powers by the mayor to be included in the procedure by law.

41:10Some motion reaffirming both city council's opposition to strong mayor's legislation. This is previously been done.

41:19So, a re affirmation should not be a big ask.

41:23And finally, the mayor offered in a tweet to delegate the small way strong is powers to all councils and the CEO.

41:32So, we are now seeing that we enshrined the delegation of ours, the mayor is seating into the procedure of why law.

41:39And finally, with respects to the procedure by law as it's written now.

41:48Or there's a proposed change to reduce the 10 minute time for planning delegations. I would ask that that be kept at 10 minutes.

41:58We can't really afford to lose any more of the democracy that we're already losing. So, I think that's also a pretty reasonable ask.

42:09So that's the end of money on delegation.

42:13Thank you, Scott. Thank you for joining us by video and we see if there's a follow up for you.

42:18And there isn't but thank you again for joining us.

42:24John Fisher, I think I saw you walk in. I did.

42:31And is Stan Kozak here? Yeah, you're in the wings Dan.

42:42All right, again, please keep it to the agenda item at hand and I will turn it over to you John whenever you start I'll start the clock. Okay, go ahead.

42:51Okay, thank you.

42:53Mr Mayor, councils and city staff.

42:56Speaking about agenda item 5-1, 202, 3 governance review.

43:05I've delegated many times, but the advocacy has almost always had a trails perspective.

43:10So I'm a little out of my lane.

43:13However, effective city governments impacts everything I am passionate about.

43:18And I felt a need to weigh in.

43:21It does seem a vote on 2023 dash 207, 91.

43:26Knowing full well that the strong mayors act provisions will take effect.

43:31July the 1st is premature without additional amendments.

43:36The mayor has stated how he intends to use the provisions of the new act.

43:41And that collaboration and respect of all members of council is key and a hashtag team golf approach.

43:51But it's not just about this mayor.

43:54So where the articles of the new laws powers of discretionary, the bylaw needs to formally reflect the delegation of power guardrails that will be used to govern the city for future administrations.

44:08The mayor says the best thing we could do for our city is literally stop worrying about legislation. We have no control over anyways.

44:17He may be right.

44:19But the burden of wearing the collaborative collegial hat with the inferred threat of donning the strong mayor hat will take considerable skill to avoid creating a dysfunctional hashtag team golf and an unforgiving citizenry.

44:37Surely using strong mayor powers, we can and minimize the voice of every go off citizen.

44:45So it might be best to add a notice requirements of procedural bylaw when strong mayor powers are contemplated as an opportunity for sober second thought.

44:56And finally, it might be good to reaffirm council's opposition to the strong mayor legislation at the start of each session of the newly elected council to reflect their commitment to the democratic process.

45:12None of this is to suggest that the status quo is okay.

45:17The guile factor is a common criticism levied against the city and shorthand for how difficult it is to get things done in Guelph.

45:26Just wondering how this applies to the procedural bylaw john I've stopped your time here. I just want to make sure that as you continue that it is focused on what is allowed just to make make sure we're staying on topic. Okay, so I'll start the start the clock again for you and you go ahead.

45:43Increasingly, that line is being twinned by Guelph is so behind in commonplace parlance.

45:51We all need to consider what we have done to contribute to those negative perceptions and what we need to eliminate them in the future.

46:01I'm proud and happy to live in Guelph. It's a great city.

46:05The community is incredibly caring and engaged, but we could be so much better.

46:12Let's make Boulder better faster be our new intention.

46:18Thank you.

46:19Thank you john. Appreciate your time coming and delegating as well. Any follow up questions for john.

46:25Don't hear or see any so thank you again. Appreciate it. Thank you.

46:30Stan you're here you're coming down. Thank you.

46:33We've had a couple people already remove themselves from our delegation list so.

46:40Yeah, I think we'll be coming up next on the phone after you stand so.

46:45Stan you've heard me say it a few times so I'd appreciate you and others after you to make sure that we're staying on topic. I appreciate you being here. I'll start the clock whenever you start.

46:54Well, thanks. Nice to come down and see you all in the flesh. I haven't done this for a while and welcome to the new counselors. It's great to see you all and those on the screen and.

47:03You know, coming down here in the as the smoke depend the sense upon us. It was kind of ominous.

47:09All things are connected. So let me begin.

47:13First, let me thank you for your civic leadership in these interesting and challenging times.

47:20I'm here speaking from the context of get involved wealth and emerging local organization.

47:27That views local democratic government as the best way of making decisions for the community.

47:36But there is a sense among many of us that local government has to do better to step up to the increasingly challenging.

47:48Things that are facing us, but how are we going to do that.

47:52Our theory of change relates to.

47:56A core belief that more citizens have to get involved in local government for it to function better.

48:04But you know, we're in a context where there is significant skepticism about government in general, and we've got to get over that hump.

48:14In the context of the procedural bylaw before you today, I want you to consider it as part of the expectations traditions written and unwritten practices that make up.

48:26How we go about local democracy.

48:29I would call it part of the rule of law.

48:34Now, if we undermine those and we start to undermine an already diminished faith.

48:41Some citizens have in government.

48:43We're not going to address the issue of how we go about bringing that change.

48:50Our democratic traditions are under attack with measures being imposed on municipalities by what I would say is a reckless provincial government that is cloaking itself in housing rhetoric.

49:03So you don't have to give into that.

49:07And there are some asks I have of you.

49:10My first ask is of the mayor.

49:12Mayor, please pledge to this council in the community at large that you will not use the strong mayor's powers in your tenure and support the procedural bylaw.

49:21Please be unequivocal about that.

49:24You have another choice.

49:26You could be seen as the mayor who strongly supports democratic practice.

49:31Now, I've had a little bit of a Freudian slip. Sometimes I come out and say the small mayor's powers.

49:37And I think, yes, people who have to refer to those would be in diminishing the role of mayor.

49:44My second ask is to council.

49:46Can you stand up for local democracy by declaring your opposition to the strong mayor's powers, particularly as they relate to their impact on this procedural bylaw and other measures.

50:00Now, as per the procedural bylaw, if we're going to amend that, I have a specific ask.

50:06And it might go something like this.

50:08You work on the procedure and the how things work.

50:11Council directs that should the mayor decide to use any small mayor powers, you require that council be notified seven days in advance of that power being exercised.

50:22And that way you will be informed, which I think is the first part of further action.

50:30So the procedure bylaw has been greatly impacted through the strong mayor's legislation and arguably Guelph was included in relation to this council unanimously approving the housing pledge back in February.

50:46Now you can send a strong message of disapproval to the government by opening that up again and rescinding that pledge back in.

50:55And this relates to this strictly to the things.

50:59Yes, council downer at that time in February said, hey, nobody's listening.

51:05We only have three out of 10 of the 10 tools that Dr. Moffitt brought. Nobody's listening. Well, believe me, I think if you rescind this, you will be sending a message and you will be heard.

51:16On that basis, again, thank you for your leadership.

51:19Greatly appreciated. Thank you.

51:23Thank you. Any follow up at all for Stan?

51:26Don't hear or see any. Thank you very much for coming down. Appreciate it. Thanks so much.

51:31Yeah, Pia by a phone is joining us next. So Pia, it's Mayor Guthrie. Can you hear me okay? Yeah, if you press star six, it might help unmute you.

51:53Yep.

51:54Oh, there you are. Good evening, Mayor Guthrie. Yep. Can you hear me?

51:58You bet. Coming through loud and clear. Thank you.

52:02I'll start the clock whenever you start. Okay, go ahead.

52:06All right. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Guthrie and members of city council.

52:11I am grateful that Mayor Guthrie will be delegating key powers back to the whole of council.

52:18But I'm just not willing to stop worrying about legislation. I have no control over any ways.

52:24My esteemed fellow Gwelf residents, Susan Watson and Lynn Grist and I think a few others mentioned our current procedural by law states that emotion fails on the tie.

52:34What this ensures is that every decision must be carried by a majority vote with the strong mayor's legislation. 28 Ontario municipalities are now the only jurisdictions in any western democracy where one third voting block will be able to enact legislation.

52:50This is unprecedented.

52:53For the remainder of my delegation, I'm going to read the correspondence you received from Dr. Whitley. It's worth reiterating and I do have his permission to present it.

53:06And this is where it starts the imposition on the citizens of Gwelf of the provisions of the strong mayor's building homes act 2022 is a large step towards the transformation of the form of government in Ontario.

53:19From responsive representative democracy to an elected dictatorship.

53:25The purpose for the changes in the role of mayor contained in strong mayors building homes act is to transform the role of mayor from being a leader of the community charged with the responsibility to advance the welfare of the community to the role of unquestioning

53:41the role of mayor of all provincial policies, however ill concede and this guided the next logical step for the government to take is to make the position of a mayor and appointment of the minister of municipal affairs and housing.

53:55I've stopped your clock. I don't have the letter in front of me right now from Dr. Whitley, but if you do, could you skim to the parts if they're in there about the procedural bylaw and not about the legislation itself being enacted from the province.

54:11That's not why we're here today so I need you to try your best to figure out how to speak about the procedural bylaw and that intersection. Okay, I'll start the timer for you when you start again. Okay.

54:22Okay, just if you could give me a minute.

54:32So, what I will do, Mayor Guthrie is I'm going to skip to the very end, just with my ask. And I will make you very happy.

54:44Okay, at the very end.

54:48I, so my, my, my ask to is to I urge council to reaffirm opposition to the strong mayors and building homes act and ask for its repeal. And what I will reiterate though is that I would like to invoke the ditto on every single thing that my the previous delegates raised in their in their

55:13presence. So, I completely concur with everything that came before me. And I will leave it at that.

55:21All right. Well, thank you. Did oh right back to you. So thank you very much. Let me see though if there is any questions or follow up for you.

55:30And there is not so thanks again for for being with us. We appreciate it.

55:36Thank you.

55:38I'm going to reset my clock here. Tonya gave art is going to join us by video Diane Hearst.

55:46Yes, you're in the wings. Okay. Tonya.

55:51Can you hear me okay. It's Mayor Guthrie.

55:55I believe you're joining us by video but maybe star six to unmute at least or

56:08through you, Mr. Mayor. I think we may have just lost the delegate if we just go down to the next person in line, we'll see if we can't get them back.

56:15You're not you're not in the wings anymore. Thanks Diane and just in case we can't get Tonya back John you're you're in the wings next okay so

56:29Thank you very much Diane and I'll start the timer for you and every start okay.

56:34Great. Thank you. Good evening Mayor Guthrie counselors staff clerks gallery and journalists. I want to thank you all for being here and for all the work you're doing and the time you spend beyond your your supposed half occupation consumption what a counselor is.

56:53I want to speak tonight on the procedural bylaw, and it's described as a bylaw to provide rules for the governing and the order and procedures of the Council of the city of wealth.

57:05My delegation is directly related to the matter before you. The bylaw is a system and structure that provides for democracy.

57:15I want to tell you how much I appreciate the architecture of this building representing in form the way we govern the horseshoe.

57:25The presence of staff. The gallery makes a great circle of inclusion. So when you're thinking and reflecting I want you always to know that you are sitting in the embodiment of that and the procedural bylaw is stated language how you how you function.

57:43I was feeling concerned that my elected counselors voices.

57:48We're at risk and might be eliminated. So I came to speak because I'm concerned the meaning of the words and terms like member majority minority could be shifting doing to this due to the strong mayor powers.

58:03The procedural bylaw review is an opportunity to set the governing structures for wealth, and I hope you really leap into this opportunity.

58:13So one of the asks I have is because of the complications of the presence of a new strong mayor's power for council to defer and refer the governance review back to staff.

58:27Declaring that they've had 70s to work on it. I think deferring it would be a good course of action.

58:34I'm also asking for this council this new council to pass a motion reaffirming wealth city council's opposition to the small mayor powers legislation.

58:46Number three, I'm asking to include in this procedural bylaw the delegating of powers the mayor is making in the procedural bylaw.

58:58Number four, I'm asking that the use of small mayor powers have a requirement of notice and reporting by the mayor.

59:11And this is in the procedural bylaws.

59:14So I want to thank you for your all your time your consideration. I want to thank everybody for bringing their wisdom and their attention to this.

59:21I want to thank the great citizen delegates because it really expands our thinking and the way we are affected by this procedure. So thank you very much.

59:32Thank you very much. Just before you go, I'll see if there's a follow up.

59:36And there isn't but thank you again for coming. Hi Tanya, it's a mayor Guthrie. I think we're coming back to you on video I believe.

59:50Yeah, you look like Councillor Gibson. Hello.

59:58Tanya, it's it's mayor Guthrie. Are you going to be turning your video on or did you want to honestly I got booted out the first time I tried so I'm just going to leave it like this.

1:00:08Yeah, that's fine. I'll start the timer when you start. Okay, go right ahead.

1:00:14Good evening, Mr Mayor, Councillors, staff and fellow citizens.

1:00:19I come before you to say something short and sweet. Ditto. Thank you.

1:00:27I believe there may be a prize in the future and it will have your name on it for the shortest delegation but still making the right impact. Thank you very much.

1:00:37Let me see if there's any questions as a follow up. No, thank you so much. All right, John Farley, you're in the wings and you're coming up next.

1:00:46I think that's honestly a record. I think I was like four seconds.

1:00:54And let me see. Harry Lane is Harry here in the Harry you're in the wings after John. Okay.

1:01:00John, welcome. I will just reset the clock and you can go right ahead.

1:01:04All right, my name is John Farley and I'm here representing myself as a glove citizen.

1:01:10And I'm also addressing Council with considerable transferable knowledge from the affordable home ownership development sector.

1:01:21Strong mayor powers have been granted to municipalities that pledged to commit to build housing number that was assigned by the province.

1:01:29Guelph will be required to approve and have built 2000 units per year to achieve their pledge of 18,000 units by 2031.

1:01:37This is no small feat. And considering the current challenging financial construction conditions.

1:01:46Provincial unit assignments have been applied to municipalities with.

1:01:51Out seemingly reference to any technical or local planning principles.

1:01:56Only the political promise to achieve the 1.5 million houses built.

1:02:01And some unfounded notion that producing more units in the market will create affordability.

1:02:08What's critically important is for everyone to recognize that not 1 aspect of the Ontario bill 23 or the supposed strong mayor powers offers any legislative.

1:02:18Financial planning tools from municipalities direct development.

1:02:23Of affordable homes inclusive of both home ownership and rental.

1:02:28Hey John, just want to make sure you're going to get to the procedural bylaw. Yeah, I'll bring it home.

1:02:32Okay, but not in the last 10 seconds. I'll bring it home for a truck.

1:02:37Not in the last 10 seconds though. We got to stick to that focus their whole time. Okay, go for it. Okay.

1:02:42This sort of false flag affordability continues to be waived at the provincial level as the sole reason to escalate residential development now at no time during my tenure.

1:02:53In the affordable home ownership sector is has building more market units ever.

1:02:59Or will ever produce market affordable ownership or rental for that matter. Let's be clear. We're not talking about supportive.

1:03:06Or affordable housing with a false flag waving and then democratic legislation being imposed on our dear menace.

1:03:13Community by the municipal, municipality by the province.

1:03:17We as a community council staff and residents inclusive have no choice but to work collaborative to achieve both our market and affordable home ownership development goals.

1:03:27Just the existence of the very threat of strong mayor powers being invoked at council with public or with staff will eradicate any trust or transparency and ultimately destroy the respectful democratic discourse necessary for successful collaboration.

1:03:43Mayor Guthrie has publicly denounced these strong powers on several occasions, including recently as yesterday evening.

1:03:52If he is committed to working collaboratively through a power balanced democratic process, then you should be open to the following.

1:04:02I requested the governance review and its entire to be referred back to the staff.

1:04:07Inclusive of the following recommendations in shrine number one in trying to delegation of powers.

1:04:14The mayor has committed to seating basically giving up in the procedural bylaw.

1:04:19Number two, have a strict requirement of notice reporting of any use of strong mayor powers by the mayor be included in the procedural bylaw.

1:04:29Pass a motion reaffirming 12 councils opposition to the strong mayor legislation and as a future action to council within the housing pledge.

1:04:40If it's so necessary and I'll explain it strong, may powers are a reward for signing the housing pledge, but a democratically problematic and are quite frankly unnecessary here in wealth is stated several times by the mayor.

1:04:54Then council should move to revoke the pledge because council and staff have consistently proven they are more than capable successfully.

1:05:03Successful collaboration and getting things done without any need for provincial interference.

1:05:11Thank you for listening.

1:05:13Okay, thanks John. And is there anything further for John anybody.

1:05:19Okay, hearing and seeing none. Thank you so much.

1:05:22Front row. Harry, come on up. Harry Lane is next.

1:05:28Now Matthew glass through a Matthew glass here. You're in the wings Matthew.

1:05:33Thank you for joining us.

1:05:38And I'll start the clock whenever you're ready. Okay, go right ahead.

1:05:45And members of council.

1:05:48Thank you for the opportunity to speak to you very briefly about the dilemma faced by this council and adapting to the provincial government's recent changes to long standing principles of democratic municipal decision making.

1:06:04The basis of our bylaws.

1:06:07I call them long standing principles because they can be traced back to 1849.

1:06:1618 years after John Gault founded our city in 1849 and upper Canada lawyer and politician Robert Baldwin compiled and got enacted the municipal corporations act.

1:06:35The name of the act carries several implications.

1:06:40That decision making at the bylaw level should happen locally.

1:06:45And should reflect the majority opinion of an elected municipal council that acts and speaks as a corporation.

1:06:55The so called strong mayor regulations now visited on our municipal corporation.

1:07:02Clearly have at least the potential to interfere significantly with the implications of Baldwin's act.

1:07:10Given that the provincial regulations are now enshrined in the statute of Ontario and cannot be challenged by local bylaws.

1:07:21I joined several of my fellow delegates in asking that council bring forward a motion stating its response to the new strong mayors legislation.

1:07:36And subsequently refer the current procedural bylaws back to staff.

1:07:41But for revision to reflect council's response.

1:07:46Thank you. Thank you so much for coming and let me see if there's a follow up for you.

1:07:54There is not. Thank you again.

1:07:59Matthew is Matthew glasses next and I did see you in the front row. Thank you for coming. You're in the wings.

1:08:06Welcome Matthew.

1:08:11And I will start the timer whenever you're ready.

1:08:14See if that helps.

1:08:23Mayor Guthrie members of council staff.

1:08:27Hello citizens.

1:08:30The Duma is not a place for discussion.

1:08:34Boris Gitslaw chair of the United Russia Party and the Russian parliament in 20 or 2003 spoke those words in support of the fateful changes Vladimir Putin was making to Russia's still embryonic democracy at the time.

1:08:50Many years on actually this last week.

1:08:54They indicate how easy it can be for democratic institutions to endure in form, even though eroded in substance. The Duma today continues to meet.

1:09:04But according to journalist Vladimir Kara Murza, only as a parody of its post Soviet self.

1:09:12As members of wealth council continue to refine procedural bylaw.

1:09:17You have an opportunity and a responsibility in our fateful moment to strengthen our city's democratic practices.

1:09:26The provisions of the bylaw are key to our ability to develop and maintain a healthy democratic political community.

1:09:34One of substance and not mere form or parody.

1:09:38Strengthening the bylaws support of dialogue, which necessarily entails strong disagreement and consideration of multiple perspectives will prevent its provisions from becoming the mere followed out rituals of affirmation.

1:09:52We see in political communities that have lost the democratic integrity.

1:09:57Underscoring the determinative power of majority decisions will also ensure that our cities policies are reasonable and genuine reflections of its residents considered wills.

1:10:10I fear, however, that these two components of the procedural bylaw cannot long survive in a political climate shaped by the Ford government's bestowal of strong mayoral powers on Guelph and other Ontario cities.

1:10:27How will you be able to engage in the debates necessary to determine our city's constructive approaches to wealth or to growth climate change and other problems we face in the years ahead.

1:10:40I fear that you all might succumb to cynicism in the face of these provincial acts.

1:10:47Doug Ford himself has provided a clear view of the way in which political power will operate in this new environment.

1:10:55I'm sorry, Matthew. I'm very sorry. I've stopped at the clock. Can you can you focus it on the procedural bylaw and how it intersects and what you would request of us in regards to to that?

1:11:06I have stopped the time. Don't worry. I didn't cut into it. So I'll start the timer again just so you can try to refocus on that. Go ahead.

1:11:12Okay.

1:11:14I'm concerned about cynicism. I'm concerned about fear amongst counselors amongst our political culture as a whole. And I think the political procedural bylaw ought to be revised in a way that can ensure democratic political practice at the municipal level and that it doesn't simply vanish in the face of

1:11:36Doug Ford's act. I do not think it's sufficient to say that these powers will now be the law and city councils will simply have to go along with the exertions of autocratic, lean, inclined provincial figures.

1:11:49That would make council nearly like the Duma.

1:11:52Section 11 of the city of Guelph code for council and elected board states members of council shall not compel staff to engage in partisan political activities or be subjected to threats or discrimination for refusing to engage in such activities.

1:12:08No member shall use or attempt to use their authority or influence for the purpose of intimidating, threatening, coursing or commanding or influencing any staff member. Wouldn't this same principle indicate that a majority of council should not be made subject to the

1:12:25intimidation or dangling of goodies on the part of strong mayor.

1:12:30So I'm stopping you again. I'm so sorry, but that's the code of conduct, which is not on the agenda tonight. The procedural bylaws on the agenda tonight. So I just need you to refocus. I've stopped the clock. I'll start it again.

1:12:42Just stick to the please the agenda item that's in front of us. Okay. Thank you. Go ahead.

1:12:46Well, I do think that the culture that undergirds the procedural bylaw is directly directly endangered by the strong mayoral act. You will have only an empty shell of yourself.

1:13:06If you say, well, it's the law, and we can't do anything about it because we're just a municipality.

1:13:14You can choose not to you don't have to say, for instance, well, we have to act on the basis of one third of the vote in an issue, right? You don't have to say one third is what we have to listen to.

1:13:30You can say we will only do majority. You can say that whether or not the province gives you power to enact legislation on the part of one third. You don't have to.

1:13:45I urge city staff and the council and the mayor to take the time necessary to strengthen the procedural bylaw before ratifying it tonight. Thank you.

1:13:59Great. Thank you. And again, my apologies for stopping anybody. I don't like it. Let me just make sure Matthew. There's no questions for you. Just one second.

1:14:06No, okay, you're good. You're good to go. Thank you very much.

1:14:11And you're next. Thank you for joining us.

1:14:15Ron East here. I think I saw Ron. Ron, you're in the wings. And welcome. I'll just reset my clock.

1:14:25Go right ahead whenever you're ready.

1:14:27Well, good evening your worship counselors, staff and the good people of Guelph.

1:14:34We have four more sleeps.

1:14:37We are in a new situation in Guelph and our procedural bylaw which regulates city governance could possibly be moved in the event the powers afforded a sitting mayor or taken up in the future.

1:14:50The procedural bylaw needs to comply with the new provincial legislation.

1:14:55It does not mean a sitting mayor or for council members are obligated to take up these instruments, which will cause division amongst council members and will weaken democracy and Guelph.

1:15:11I appreciate Mayor Guthrie your willingness to delegate to council these administrative powers.

1:15:19However, I am deeply concerned about one third of a council overturning the votes of a majority of council on any potential issue, housing protection of historical buildings, building projects, or even the capital budget.

1:15:38And this finds one of the days of the family compact rule in Ontario in the 18th century, which led to the Mackenzie rebellion of the 1830s minorities should never rule the majority.

1:15:54And this is autocracy.

1:15:56The use of any veto power in Guelph would have a delirious effect on the city.

1:16:02If people feel who they vote for is irrelevant, because the decisions of a minority of council can overturn decisions of the majority.

1:16:14This could result in an even lower voter turnout than we already see which often hovers around 30 to 40%.

1:16:24As others have noted, this is an outrageous attack on municipal democracy.

1:16:31And I urge you not to be tempted by the feelings of helplessness that I can't do anything about this feeling because it's it's not true.

1:16:46We always have a choice always in how we behave.

1:16:52All these powers are being lured and dangled in front of mayors and counselors in this province. That does not mean you have to support them.

1:17:02Take them up and use them.

1:17:05You can, along with the mayors of Waterloo Hamilton in Toronto can say no.

1:17:11Counselors can decline to support the use of these powers because it will take four to bless a veto over the majority of council.

1:17:21I've watched many councils over the years work through their differences of opinion, come together and make decisions for the good of the city.

1:17:32Everyone here, all of you bring your wisdom, your insight and your goodwill to this chamber.

1:17:40And these are gifts. You bring gifts to the city.

1:17:44And I would ask that you consider reaffirming the last council's motion in which the entire council voted to not support strong mere powers because of the harm that it would engender.

1:17:55And I would ask that you refer the work that you may need to be done on the procedural bylaw so staff can look at this in light of the new provincial legislation and look deeply.

1:18:06I would ask that you enshrine in this bylaw the delegation of powers the mayor said he would see in yesterday's and tonight's public remarks.

1:18:16Thank you very much for your attention in this matter.

1:18:20All man.

1:18:22Thank you.

1:18:25Let me see if there's a follow up for you.

1:18:28There is not. Thank you and appreciate it.

1:18:33Okay, we've got just a few more Ron East is coming. Thank you.

1:18:42And then Emma Russell, I think Russell Chionni is going to be on video next.

1:18:51Welcome, Ron. Thank you for coming. I'll start the clock whenever you're ready again if we could keep your keep your focus on the procedural bylaw for me I'd appreciate it. Okay.

1:19:00Can you tell me I'm you can hear me all right. Yeah, you're good. Yeah, go ahead. Okay.

1:19:06So Mayor Guthrie counselors, staff and fellow citizens of wealth.

1:19:13I'd like to take this opportunity to thank you for the opportunity to address you this evening.

1:19:23The concerns that over 350 members of our local chapter of the Council of Canadians.

1:19:30My colleagues here this evening.

1:19:33And many fellow citizens, concerning the city governance procedure and the imposition of the provincially mandated strong mayor's legislation I'd like to.

1:19:46I diverge from my speech for a moment. I'm very concerned. I've been watching this evening of what's taking place.

1:19:56And in my view, every delegate who has presented this evening is addressing the procedural bylaw.

1:20:05And your procedural bylaw that are in front of you now.

1:20:10They are addressing that you need to take a look at those bylaws. They make absolutely no reference.

1:20:21No acknowledgement whatsoever of the provincial legislation bill three and bill 39.

1:20:32So therefore they are based on an assumption that you are operating under a majority rule context.

1:20:47That's the way these bylaws have been drafted.

1:20:51And if in fact you acknowledge or accept that you are going to in any way form or any part of the strong mayor legislation.

1:21:03If you are intending to implement it, then these bylaws have to be completely redrafted.

1:21:12You cannot proceed with the existing bylaws and have this provincial legislation at the same time.

1:21:21They are in direct contradiction to each other.

1:21:27So I believe now and I would like to ask at this time that you need to make a clear acknowledgement about whether you are going to implement in any way or in any part the strong mayor's legislation or you are not.

1:21:48Like many mayors have done already. Certainly the new mayor of Toronto, the mayor of Ottawa in the original context and out of the 26 mayors, many of whom have already acknowledged they will not employ this legislation.

1:22:08This has got to be done now. It's got to be done before you consider these bylaws, these procedural bylaws. You cannot proceed unless you acknowledge that in fact you are still working under majority rule.

1:22:27Thank you.

1:22:29Thank you very much. Any questions as a follow up. Councillor Coller has one.

1:22:34Thank you through your worship. Thank you for the presentation. So, in that line of thinking.

1:22:42Council, if we were to approve the bylaw as presented as amended by staff, would that not in fact be a declaration that we will continue to work with the premise of the majority rule and by approving what is being tabled today.

1:23:00Are we not indicating that we do not support these provincial powers that are given?

1:23:07Yes, I totally agree with you. It's extremely important. But I think for the public and I think you've heard all of these delegates this evening and their concerns and together with many, many more that you need to be very clear and it needs to be on the public record

1:23:28that you are not implementing this legislation. Thank you very much. Mr. Coller. Thank you.

1:23:36Okay, thank you. Seeing nothing further. Thank you. And Emma Russell Trioni is on video, I believe next. We're going to Barbara Mann. I saw you walk in. Barbara, come on down.

1:24:10My fellow citizens in the gallery. I'm sorry I'm late. So I may be redundant a little bit because I wasn't able to hear the previous things I was at work. But the last two people have actually said very clearly a few of my thoughts as well.

1:24:25I think the biggest thing here for me is that this is a legislation, but it is a choice. It's a choice whether to enact it or not. And I think if the legacy we want to continue in Canada in Ontario, Guelph is democracy.

1:24:42It's not something to be taken lightly. And as Ron was just saying, these procedural bylaws are actually done without taking that legislation into fact. So I'm here with so many other people to ask you to put into public record three to four different things.

1:25:03The first one being that you're not going to support the strong air mat strong mayors act and powers. Another one, just in case there is a slip up is to actually put into the bylaws that if for any reason, Mayor Guthrie, you think you need to invoke them that there is a lot of warning, a week, two weeks, a month, whatever council thinks that needs to be,

1:25:32because it is tempting, very, very tempting. Second is the fact that we made a housing pledge as a city. And it kind of feels like then this came back to the city as an option.

1:25:52But a lot of us are feeling that sort of a ruse over over housing, it's not going to deal with affordable housing. And so let's rescind that. Because if it is something that's tied into having this legislation, maybe if everybody pulls back on that pledge, then that power will be removed as well.

1:26:15That notice is really, really important. And Mayor Guthrie, there's been a rumble that you have said you won't invoke these powers. And it would be great to actually have that in writing somewhere as well within these bylaws.

1:26:32And that's all I have to say.

1:26:35Thank you. Thank you very much. Any follow up at all.

1:26:38Seeing nothing. Thank you very much for coming down.

1:26:41Through you, Mr. Mayor, the remaining two delegates aren't online right now. So that brings us to the end of the delegate list to this point.

1:26:50Great. Thank you.

1:26:52All right, coming back to us then, Councillor Allt, you said you'd be willing to table the motion as recommended from staff. Yes, I would, Mayor Guthrie. I do have an amendment to it, but I'll table the original motion.

1:27:04I do have a question point of order for the speaker.

1:27:07Well, in a second. Well, in a second, because I need a second clerk.

1:27:11Goller will second. All right, back to you. Thank you. The first thing, as I said, I've got an amendment, but I'll wait till I hear from the clerk.

1:27:20I heard many of the delegates speak very passionately about delaying or perhaps pursuing this further. And I was wondering if we could hear from clerks what the next steps will be in light of bill 23 and strong mayor's powers.

1:27:35I believe this is important for clarification for the public.

1:27:39Through you, Mr Mayor, I can start and then certainly we do have the city clerk on the line and some other staff who might like to chime in.

1:27:46There is a variety of different policies, updates and bylaws that the city has, which will need to be updated based on this legislation.

1:27:52Staff are planning to bring those updates to the September governance committee of the whole meeting for review discussion and approval at city council.

1:28:01Many of the policies and speaking to the procedural bylaw specifically include clauses that state where they contradict provincial legislation. It is the provincial legislation which prevails.

1:28:11So there is no issue with non compliance in the procedural bylaw as an example over the next month or so until it is a brought forward for review in September.

1:28:21Thank you. That's my clarification. I'm happy to put the amendment on right now.

1:28:26Is that appropriate?

1:28:29Do you mind? I just had one more question. I looks like I have only one more question, maybe a couple. Can I just go through the questions and then I promise I'll go back to you.

1:28:37Excuse me.

1:28:38I just want to clarify what was put on the floor. There wasn't a memo attached to the governance review from staff and I just want to clarify what is on the floor right now if it was the revised recommendations recommended by staff or something else.

1:28:52I would have thought it was including the revised with the memo because that portion is what will be referred to September. Councillor Aldous, that was your intent when you tabled it.

1:29:03My intent is to revise number one, the amended procedural bylaw. I would like to make an amendment to the amended procedural bylaw as contained in recommendation number one.

1:29:14No, no, no, no, no, stop there. My friend.

1:29:19We'll get to that what you just said, but prior to that there is all these eight recommendations as what has flown forward from committee.

1:29:28But then there was a memo attached publicly as well because of the strong mayor powers that our staff have said hey still still do all of this except we need you to hunt these other issues not here we I just want to make sure you're moving

1:29:45everything including what our clerks have suggested. Yes. Okay. And I'm so sorry. Was it Guller that seconded you're okay with that still. Yeah. Okay. So clerks you're okay. Okay. So that's what's on the floor. I'll still come back to you for your amendment.

1:29:57But Councillor Downer you had a question and a Rourke.

1:30:01Yeah, so I it's true you Mr. Mayor.

1:30:04I don't know if would be the clerk or the CAO that would answer that because we've got a member the other day about the strong mayor powers and a lot of it's what you've already put out there in public.

1:30:15Mr. Mayor, but I could you tell us what you know, roughly what this procedure is that's going to be in the legislation because I know people are asking for notice and those types of things but that seems to be that it will be embedded into the

1:30:34the let the let it's embedded in the legislation. Some of this notice that has to be given. Can you just roughly go over what that process is when the mayor does a veto because I think

1:30:47I think that's important and and how the council can then override the mayor's veto.

1:30:53Sure, as well because that there's there's timelines involved in this.

1:30:57So, so you Mr. Mayor perhaps start of course you've seen Jody sales come down and Jody sales has taken point on all of this so that we can try and get ourselves.

1:31:05Organized and a counselor down or I'm going to jump right to the facts but I'll get there a little bit slowly because there is things to do here for July 1st.

1:31:14And so the strong mayor power is put in place for July 1st. We are going through everything that we're aware of.

1:31:21And we will connect at all in September so that when you will see a procedural bylaw and of course the amended bylaw that's at play that's our suggestion on the risk things that we have to pull back because it does impact them but it impacts lots and I'm going to get to the veto pieces.

1:31:37And what we have to put in place in July 1st is we still continue to work with some provincial staff but we don't actually have the regulations.

1:31:44And it's June 27th.

1:31:46So we will have a website on and I want to pick up some of the comments from folks tonight as well.

1:31:52All mayoral decisions will be posted and right and it will be posted there because that's just good transparency and I think everybody would agree with that there isn't anybody arguing that.

1:32:02So we will make that happen now as we move through and very specifically then as you just heard the mayor talk about tonight about how we would delegate to council or delegate to the CEO.

1:32:13Those things then show up automatically because that's a decision under this act, how it starts to operate.

1:32:20The bylaws and veto powers and council override.

1:32:25So there's also a couple of other factors.

1:32:28There's lots of tentacles to these things because we also have some other obligations because of development applications.

1:32:35And we're on the clock and timelines there that are also very difficult.

1:32:39So we are going to try and reconcile the timelines that are being suggested by the province and a variety of regulations.

1:32:47So if you can ignore that for a second but we can't but ignore that for a second because likely by the time staff work this through will come to a council planning meeting that will put a couple of days in front of you, not lots because this clock has changed.

1:33:00And of course you have to return half the fees and all those other things if we're not in compliance, but perhaps right to your question and I think that's what you're looking for.

1:33:11And of course if I miss anything miss sales will jump in here but really if city council passes the marriage is a decision veto in a bylaw and city council has 21 days to override a marriage bylaw veto with a two third super majority of some nine members of council, seven

1:33:30members of city council in accordance with section 8.1 as it is today, the procedural bylaw that is could submit a petition to the city clerk request in the special city council meeting for the purpose of considering an override.

1:33:43And so with that, you can then get into overrides there's numbers that will have to be aware of you need and I think it's four members of council to, you know, have five thank you to get it in place in the first place.

1:33:58And so we can get in from that with those five votes but what does that do to other decisions that are you're being made, not made to you but you're being allocated other timelines as well so we haven't reconciled that tonight, and we absolutely can't.

1:34:13There's things that we have to get in place. We know what this act is saying to us, we're documenting that. And what you'll see at the September version is us actually overly in Gantt chart so that we could actually be very very clear with you.

1:34:27And so if we can't get in, can it work? First, will it work? And then maybe that's where we have to come back to the province to say subject to you, a proven strong mayors or taken positions.

1:34:38That's that's outside of our bailiwick, but we may have to then recommend that you suggest back to the province, you have to align various legislation.

1:34:47And so this is something that we still need in terms of the veto powers and I'll look to Miss sales, because I was a bit rambly in that that mess of description.

1:34:57Okay. So that may have answered that counselor down or if not we'll get a little deeper dive with missiles. Yes, I think that does I think you're right though I think it's four and not five but I saw I thought I saw five in the memo for something part of this is, can you just verify that.

1:35:18So it requires one third plus one vote, which the clerks tell me is five votes five votes. Okay, so I did see that so. Okay. Okay. So, so just looking through that so that that helps sort of understand sort of the complexity that needs to go into and these things will be

1:35:36then written into the bylaw for procedure by law for September. And my understanding from the memo that was attached on the 21st is that we are we're pulling some of these things back that which is the amendment that part of the amendment to the, to the one that we

1:35:57passed on the first is pulling back those things that we need to change in order to address the strong mirror powers right so we have sort of taken those back out in order to bring those back in September that's my understanding. Okay, so we're sort of doing what the delegations have asked

1:36:13we're we're not taking the whole proceeding bylaw but we're pulling back the pieces that need to be that will be impacted by strong mirror.

1:36:21So through you Mr Mayor that's correct there is a bit of don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here there is things that we have to get enacted that has nothing to do with this new new thing that's arrived since you actually photo on this unbelievably at committee to get to here.

1:36:36So that short time period has changed things and we will we will accommodate that and bring that back in ways that are very clear and transparent in the new procedural bylaw.

1:36:45And but as I was saying, we do have to have things up and operational by Saturday.

1:36:52And we've got a bit of that this is a bit of the how whether you agree with or not we have to have a bit of the how would we do it, because you have committee meetings, Council meetings in July.

1:37:04And we are trying to sort of give us at least a roadmap on how you would do it. And I think you're here and it might not be done and I'll leave that for the discussion and that side of the horseshoe of course, but that just puts it in place now so that we can deal with the month of

1:37:17July. And then we get to September when we can bring this in front of you and have the appropriate amount of time, specifically to this act, and how it really embeds itself into the procedural or how we see it embedded itself into the procedural bylaw,

1:37:31including I think Councillor Downer you're right. Most of the things that we heard tonight. We've picked up on already and we've started to turn our minds to that. And you see that in that Council memo also of June 26.

1:37:45Okay, thank you. And so the other question I think is to Mayor Guthrie, I just want to make sure so that on July 1.

1:37:52We have to our website that website is going live right with the with the strong mayor powers that page in our website.

1:38:00And on July 1. My understanding is that you're ceding the powers in those three areas and delegating them to the CAO or the Council, you know.

1:38:13And so that happened, you're going to do that simultaneously. You're not going to wait till the September that's happening July 1.

1:38:20Through you, Mr. Mayor to Councillor Downer, we will have on July 1 a webpage available post any mayoral decisions or directives that the mayor issued.

1:38:32Okay, so his directive that he's delegating those those powers will be on there on July 1.

1:38:40I'm going to jump in. So Dylan is already because I already told him that's what I want to do. So Dylan's already said to me at 12 01 a.m. on Sunday, something from wrong on Saturday.

1:38:52I'll get an email. I told him I would be sleeping. And then when I get up in the morning and see that email, I will be signing those orders and by the afternoon on Saturday, they will be public.

1:39:04Okay, so that's going to happen on that day that that's okay. So that doesn't need to wait till September that we don't have to worry about any of that happening in the summer.

1:39:15And so it's just about the part the other parts of it that will be coming back in September about the processes that if you were to use those powers. Okay, great. And when we get to comments, I have comments.

1:39:28Thank you.

1:39:32You prompted me to have a question.

1:39:34Councillor Downer. So I am going to come. I'm going to put myself on the list.

1:39:41Or work boosted till Quran.

1:39:44Thank you, Margarh three.

1:39:47So a number of the delegates and I think a counselor downer has broach this.

1:39:52A number of the delegates for asking about the mechanisms for transparency on the use of strong mayors.

1:39:58And so we're talking about a website.

1:40:02Some people are concerned and it's aligned with the procedural bylaw. Some people are concerned there will be things they will see in the horseshoe in terms of committee appointments.

1:40:12Vito's those, you know, budget amendments or vetoing budget amendments, those things will be visible to the public.

1:40:18What is the mechanism to see the other potential uses so you are delegating authority on all of the administrative stuff. Correct.

1:40:29So I think it bears repeating to just understand, will will that all be enshrined in the procedural bylaw.

1:40:37Will that happen in September so I understand your you'll sign something on Canada Day.

1:40:42But then in the procedural bylaw, how does that get laid out. Right.

1:40:48So that people know where to go for that information. It's really clear to whom that is delegated.

1:40:55Because I think what concerns some people and I've said it before I'm not concerned about this council at this point in our history. I'm concerned about the sort of higher order democratic governance issues.

1:41:08If future could you could see a mayor with strong powers, hiring, firing, etc. And that wouldn't be in this room.

1:41:17So then what's the mechanism for the public to be aware of when those less public powers are used.

1:41:26So how's that going to be reflected in September in our and it's okay if you don't have the answer because the bill just came out but through the mayor to a counselor or I'll take a crack at this for you.

1:41:36Mayoral decisions and directions will be done in writing and they will be circulated to council with the exception of those that accepting cases where the freedom of information act applies.

1:41:49They will also be simultaneously posted on this webpage that we will stand up effective July 1. And so the city of Ottawa went first I guess in this in this lane and they have a website that is available right now.

1:42:05So people who are looking for something that we're going to model can look to the Ottawa webpage which is up now, or our webpage which will be up on July 1. And we will post very transparently everything that we can make publicly available related to mayoral decisions.

1:42:22Through you Mayor Guthrie to Miss Sales. And so if there was, for instance, a use of the powers and human resources right from the CEO to the general manager level.

1:42:35That would be an identifiable individual with that come to us and close for awareness.

1:42:40So through you Mr Mayor.

1:42:45So I'll say we're not completely clear on all the answers to probably all the questions you might have tonight.

1:42:51So as Miss Sales indicated, we will have a new forum where all decisions and that's what the mayor will be the mayor will sign it and will the city clerk will sign it and we will post that.

1:43:03And you will all see it as well as the public so that's that great model. Thank goodness for a lot of other where they really got that done.

1:43:09So, you know, you can, we can jump right into that and that will help us.

1:43:13Now, if the mayor undelegated, and he hasn't said that so let me he has not said that, but he undelegated that's a decision.

1:43:22It gets posted as well. And then you will get that as well. So there isn't a decision that the mayor can make that you won't see.

1:43:31Now, if we got into some human resources side of life. There's a lot. There's not a lot of times that sometimes we'll bring human resources matters to counsel in camera.

1:43:41And then that part is exactly probably the same but we're not 100% sure because you then are brought into that decision making. So if I bring something forward.

1:43:52And we said we are, and we're not doing any of this but we were reorgan and we made a big change.

1:43:58And so, we're part in ways you might be part of that discussion with us around the individuals, we would do that in camera.

1:44:06And that would likely be a have to remain in camera because of the privacy issues, or the amphibious issues.

1:44:13So we haven't sorted all that out so we have to be careful here, because I don't want to state too much because we haven't got all the rules laid out.

1:44:21So we don't want to see it, but when we actually get the regulations, then we'll have them to go through and challenge ourselves on as well. So that's also the dilemma we have.

1:44:31There's things for now. And then there's things ongoing throughout that. So again, that's not a reflection of this council or this mayor. There's just things that we need from municipal affairs to help us here.

1:44:42And we'll see all that come September on how that should work. And you'll have thoughts and comments no doubt at that point, when we're better prepared to give you that deeper dive issue.

1:44:52This is now getting in compliance with legislation. What are we lover or not, your administration has to get you there and us there.

1:45:00And how do we deal with the premise of transparency. And I think we've got a really good crack at it come Saturday.

1:45:06So that gives us a bit of breathing space. Of course, next week with some members of council, I would just throughout this little reminder we've got some training sessions set up potentially.

1:45:15Not everybody signed up yet, and I know we're squeezing them in, but we're trying to get that to happen on Tuesday and Wednesday as well so that we can move through some details as not to hide anything but just move some details.

1:45:27I don't really hear a lot of we're not 100% sure, but that might give us some insight to what you're also looking for at those sessions so that we can incorporate those things when we come back to the committee of the council in September as well.

1:45:40So, again, a bit rambly because that's what it is. But I'm hoping it's somewhat helpful.

1:45:46I have an answer to add on to CEO Stewart's answer in the event that we were talking about a private matter. Council is still entitled to circulation of that decision based on the statute. So yes, to your answer in short you would receive it, but confidentially.

1:46:07I'm going to go through you, Margot three so I understand July 1st those delegations of authorities will take place. And then in September they'll be in trying in the procedural bylaw.

1:46:18And then to piggyback on counselor downers question, she was, I'm just curious the, the menu, the memo that we received yesterday talks about the budget process as well, which is really different.

1:46:33Are we imagining a totally separate section of the procedural bylaw that talks about the budget and the vetoing of amendments, etc.

1:46:43I will ask Mr Brian if you'd like to chime in on the relationship between the amendments that you'll see to the procedural bylaw in the budget.

1:46:52Thank you Miss sales and through you, Margot three to counselor work.

1:46:58In fact, there's the bylaw will likely see limited change in that regard. Some of these aspects don't need to necessarily be included in the bylaw, which is part of the reason why we're recommending approval.

1:47:10Based on the changes that we brought forward at committee the whole. That being said, where there are aspects that need to be updated in the procedural bylaw. We will certainly bring that forward and bring that back to you in September.

1:47:23Currently, the budget provisions in the, in the procedural bylaw, we don't foresee any overly significant changes that need to come into play. Rather the process by which the finance team in consultation with the executive team.

1:47:38That process will very likely need to be, you know, adjusted and amended to a certain degree in order to align with the new provisions in the act.

1:47:46Thank you and three you may got three just the last one for Mr. O'Brien, I think.

1:47:53So, given counselors, oath of office.

1:47:57I believe my recollection is that we pledge to uphold the laws of Ontario in Canada. Are we, is it even possible for us to say we will not support provincial legislation.

1:48:10Through you, Mary Guthrie to work.

1:48:13I would say that this is in legislation and it's something that has come up obviously through the discussion this evening. This is an intervention legislation.

1:48:22Whatever is included in our bylaws is ultimate.

1:48:27Trump's.

1:48:31Thank you.

1:48:32Pustil, Koran, and then alt.

1:48:38Thank you and through the mayor.

1:48:41Councillor O'Rourke had my last question is around our choice, our ability to choose to do this, which thank you you've answered. So I have three other quick questions.

1:48:53Did I hear correctly that the delegation of powers would be confirmed in the procedural bylaws those administrative powers would be confirmed enshrined in the procedural bylaw.

1:49:06Through the mayor to the counselor.

1:49:11Those the if the mayor chooses to make delegations, which we've heard he intends to do.

1:49:17They will be posted as mayoral directions and that will take place on Saturday. If those directions were revoked at any point that would also be posted.

1:49:26And any other mayoral decisions and directions will be posted, but they will not be enshrined in the procedural bylaw.

1:49:34Thank you. So yeah, that was my question is less about the communication on the website. It is about the enshrining of the process and our procedural bylaw for that to happen or for that to be rescinded, which which is disconcerting.

1:49:49Another question that I have is just to the clerk if possible through the mayor.

1:49:54Is it possible in our procedural bylaw to bookend or wrap around the strong mayors I understand the authority of the strong mayors that's given in the legislation.

1:50:06We haven't seen the regulations yet.

1:50:08So the question is more around procedurally can we book and wrap around that there is conversations debates before that's enacted. So not touching the authority, but adding procedures, sorry, adding procedures before and or after.

1:50:29Through you, Mr Mayor to council.

1:50:31The procedure by law is a bylaw per the act that is required to be enacted by council that's intended to govern the calling of meetings and the process around meetings.

1:50:44So what is included in the procedure bylaw vis-a-vis strong mayor authority is relatively limited. I believe in what can be included in there.

1:50:54There's certainly some tailoring of information that we ought to do things such as the appointments of committees where all members of council sit as as members on the committee.

1:51:05That is something that we will hit and address.

1:51:08But the act is clear. The mayor's authority and the decisions and directives that are issued by the mayor are to be posted and are to be made in writing.

1:51:18And so those are posted online. There all that to say council, there's likely limited ability for us to book and certain things as to use the terminology you use.

1:51:28What will the transparency that I believe council at the public and quite frankly, I think staff are looking for as well will be achieved through that website and those postings of the mayoral decisions and directives.

1:51:41Thank you. That didn't quite get my question. It's less about the website and the posting of the decisions or the direction of the mayor. It's about procedurally.

1:51:51It's about fairness discourse, you know, governance of having those items come to a forum in our organization of our meetings where we can have thorough debate discussion.

1:52:03And again, I understand the authority, you know, but that procedure to bring it to a forum for that to happen.

1:52:12My last question and you can you can tell me you don't have an answer to this as in the document. This is heavily connected to provincial priorities and, you know, potentially the the power and the authority of the mayor comes from

1:52:31potentially advances or influences a provincial priority, which for me is very subjective, right? For example, our high our housing commitment is 2031.

1:52:43So is it a priority now in 2023 or is it a priority in 2031? It's quite subjective. And so perhaps not in our procedure by law, but in your conversations with the province.

1:52:55I'm very concerned about that kind of language because that can be anything at the discretion.

1:53:01Unchallengeable of the mayor. So if if if it's not, I understand not part of our procedural bylaw, if it can be something that is in the definitions of what exactly that is because that can be anything.

1:53:16It's it's a blank check.

1:53:19Yeah, I'm through you, Mr. Mayor. The provincial priorities to answer your question, Councillor Boussette, are outlined in regulation.

1:53:25It speaks to the one and a half million homes that the government of Ontario has spoken to quite often. It also speaks to constructing and maintaining infrastructure to support housing, and that can include transit roads, utilities, servicing.

1:53:39I think we would acknowledge that there are there is the potential for that to be interpreted interpreted broadly as well. And I will also defer to CAO Steward if he's got anything like that.

1:53:50Thank you very much, gentlemen, is our Brian.

1:53:53So, Councillor Boussette, you know, you're getting at some of the things that we're going to have to try to, we certainly can't bookend and a procedural bylaw cannot over you cannot overwrite this power that's been given to the mayor's, the 26 additional mayors.

1:54:10That that is just, I just want clarity on that. But we can talk to you about how governance works, how things are the tentacles hit these things, but from a clearly very specific procedural bylaw cannot overwrite.

1:54:28But we can certainly have discussions of staff and council on, well, where do these things intersect and what could that look like and and what could be done and what are the definitions.

1:54:39And so Mr O'Brien is right, the province put out some, I think also fairly vague definitions, you know, they're, you know, and we're going to try to get more clarity from them so that we've got more clarity for you.

1:54:51So then what does that mean when the province says we now declare this a provincial, you know, they've got utility in transit in there. So what does that mean for local councils.

1:55:03So we need a little bit more time to get to that so that we can help you with the liberation time as well. Certainly tonight, you'll be frustrated a little bit with some of our answers.

1:55:11We're trying our best, but we haven't got them. But we sure shouldn't try to get them all for September. And so that you can see where the inner link and where you have authority and where you do not have authority, or where you have moral suasion versus absolute authority.

1:55:26And that might be an important piece as this discussion might continue, should this discussion continue in September as well.

1:55:34Thank you for that response. And I guess my intent was not to undermine the authority, but to really capture the culture of collaboration on council and building that collective power around the horseshoe. So thank you very much.

1:55:51Thank you, council. Thank you, councillor. I got Quran and then alt.

1:55:55Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:55:57Timing is everything and this legislation was announced on June the 16th, I believe, two weeks less than two weeks ago.

1:56:05We haven't received the regs. Do we know when we're going to receive the regs? It's very usually it's a couple of months. And I, I, I'm curious and bewildered how we can be enacting a piece of legislation on July 1, when we have never seen the regulations.

1:56:23Through the mayor and a councillor run. We don't know we anticipate seeing them hopefully later this week. Again, we know what was publicly announced and so we expect this to look much like it looked in Ottawa.

1:56:34But that's not to say that there won't be some things in the regulation that don't surprise us perhaps and and so you know that's why we've sort of said be patient with us as we wait to see them and better understand.

1:56:47Thank you. I'm very patient with staff and very cognizant that you're facing the same challenges we are but to be to be beholding to a piece of legislation that I've never seen and is not going to be released for the legislation actually comes into effect is not lost on me.

1:57:02It's mind boggling that that can even occur in a in a democratic society where you're expected to uphold the piece of legislation without being able to see the regulations that go with it. That's a comment, not a question. Mr. Mayor.

1:57:16No question about that again is related to timing we as a matter of process we have a governance review of our procedural bylaw every two years every three years, I believe and it's part of our work plan.

1:57:31We're now doing a second review within a six month period because that's outside of our normal process and outside of our normal timeline and work plan.

1:57:42Do you want direction from council to do that or are you doing it anyway without direction for council is there a statement that you're looking for from us tonight where we're directing you to do something specific.

1:57:54Through the mayor to councillor Caron appreciate your question staff are working on this right now we understand that the context in which we're all operating has changed a little and so that direction is not required.

1:58:05We are coming back to you with the most urgent items in September. If there are items that we think we need some more time to look at will let you know that along the way and when we'll bring those back to you as well.

1:58:14Okay, yeah, and I did, you know, I understand that the work was being done. I just didn't know if you were actually looking for something tonight to formalize that so thanks for clarifying that.

1:58:25There were three municipalities in the big city mayor group who did not have the strong mayor powers bestowed upon them, because they didn't have housing pledges and there were various reasons and I believe the mayor of New

1:58:41York City and the mayor of New York City said one of the reasons that they did not sign a housing pledges because they understand their inability to meet the housing pledge they they don't have the infrastructure, they don't have the funding

1:58:54not meet the pledge so they didn't sign the pledge. If we get down the road, you know,

1:59:02within the next year and we, you know, we're looking at massive, massive infrastructure

1:59:08projects like bridge at Silvergra, train bridge or rail bridge at Silver Creek or underground.

1:59:15We don't know the impact yet because I know staff are still working on what the potential

1:59:18financial impact of building the infrastructure to support this housing pledge is. If we get down

1:59:25the road and we as a community, as a staff, as a council say, we simply cannot, cannot meet this

1:59:34obligation. What can we, can we rescind our housing pledge? I mean, right now we've put into our

1:59:44housing pledge a number of ifs. You know, we've put parameters, we've put conditions, we, we will

1:59:52work towards meeting the housing pledge, but this is what we need in return. We, it was a very, very

1:59:56strategic and well-crafted thank you DCA O'Homes who's not here. It was a very, very well-crafted

2:00:03pledge that gave us conditions. So I'm wondering about timing to rescind that if we get down the

2:00:12road and we realize we actually cannot meet that and then how this relates to procedural

2:00:19bylaw is we've made all these amendments and we may lose those powers and have to

2:00:24start that procedural bylaw review all over again.

2:00:28Through the mayor to Councillor Caron, our housing pledge continues to be something that we are

2:00:33actively advocating on. Obviously this council put great thought into some of the things that

2:00:38they wanted us to continue to talk to the province about as part of our housing pledge

2:00:42and I'm encouraged that on Tuesday after the long weekend we have a meeting with the Minister of

2:00:48Municipal Affairs and Housing's Chief of Staff to discuss our housing pledge in more detail

2:00:53in advance of our delegation that we hope to get at AMO. So we continue to absolutely have those

2:00:57conversations. I will turn it over to CEO Stewart to comment a bit more on, on your question about

2:01:03withdrawing our housing pledge. Thanks. So through the mayor there's a couple of

2:01:08interests and things that will happen in July for all of us. July 11th, I think you're going to

2:01:14have a while of an experience where you know I'm also looking for DCL homes in terms of all the

2:01:19work that's gone into the housing workshop that you're going to be part of that evening. You will

2:01:23see the vast amount of work that has taken place and the vast amount of work that has to take place

2:01:29yet to meet some of the things that were in that housing pledge. So there's a bunch of

2:01:33really good news and a bunch of what are we going to have to stop doing to accommodate some of these

2:01:40things. July 19th you will get a DC's. It's just non-stop excitement I must say so we'll have the

2:01:47DC bylaw update as well because there is concerns about being made whole and that is a fair comment

2:01:53to ask as a municipality how does that work and how does it connect to the pledge? We're unclear

2:01:59if there's funding pieces that are attached to a pledge. I know the province is working through

2:02:05I haven't heard it yet but they may be through it the RFP for the audit process and in terms of

2:02:10municipalities that might be audited as well and what's the funds that they haven't reserved why

2:02:15do they have them and those sort of things and I think what that really is building to is that

2:02:20there is a head of steam because of changes. We might not be able to afford everything that is

2:02:26in our 10-year budget and beyond given some of the other provincial changes. So infrastructure

2:02:32is an important piece for all of us and I know you know that but maybe our focus can't be doing it

2:02:38everywhere for everyone because density has changed in a lot of places and the mayor mentioned it

2:02:45last night at the DGBA piece here that the province have made changes in the downtown.

2:02:50So that means that the capacity in the pipes have to accommodate

2:02:54density and maybe we can't just do it everywhere like the plan. So we're also working through the

2:02:58plan what does that mean in terms of where is the public investment that gets to the private

2:03:04sector investment on development. That's a discussion that we're going through councillor and we

2:03:08have you know multi-year budgets coming up and that was our intention is to try to get that there

2:03:13as well. We may have to change some of that thinking and maybe all the growth areas can't be all the

2:03:19growth areas as we saw them last year. So there is a bunch of unknowns here that we see around

2:03:24particularly funded. Infrastructure gets you there because that's the funding gem for all of us

2:03:30and we've got more work to do to bring that to you as well and Miss Holmes is back but

2:03:34it'll be a lot in Miss Holmes' shop and then the other little piece that sometimes gets ignored

2:03:40in all of this it's not quite strong mayor powers but it's all the connections is parkland dedication

2:03:45and what does that look like and what are the changes there and there's there's costs associated

2:03:49with that as well as you as we contemplate new rules. So we will try to bring you along the way

2:03:55all the new rules as we see them as the intersect and September might get us a lot of it multi-year

2:04:01budget will get us a lot more and honestly we are having a pacing capacity issue so if I just

2:04:08change gears on you a little bit and you sit as the board of governors as a large employer in this

2:04:12city we have got close to a lot of burnout with staff in terms of the work that they're having to do

2:04:19you know we there's a lot of pressure to get approvals through there's a lot of pressure for

2:04:23a lot of those same staff to be in an Ontario OLT they're not approving things that they're if

2:04:29they're out of here in so you know that's a bit that's not really part of it tonight but it will

2:04:34be part of it because where do we get the staff to do the work and especially if there's no break

2:04:40and these changes that we see come and prevent you. So again that's your CEO being a bit

2:04:45I'm complaining out loud but those are real things that we see for our staff and that can't

2:04:50continue and you will hear you're getting a preemptive piece of what's probably coming later

2:04:54in a year from us we cannot continue with the staffing we have and do it all anyway so we've

2:05:00got perhaps choices to make perhaps we don't have choices and we have other choices to make around

2:05:05budget so Councillor Caron I'm sure that was more than you are actually looking for. It is but

2:05:10your honesty and your candor is appreciated because I think that what's happening here is actually

2:05:16making that situation more difficult for you and your team the pressure that they're already under

2:05:20is is even greater when we start talking about the political process on the icing on the cake on

2:05:28that. Going back to our position as a council and I look to the clerk's office and the mayor for

2:05:36leadership on this question we on September 14th made our position as a council very clear so

2:05:45I recognize we have five new councillors and and their position is also valued and and the

2:05:52community needs to hear it but because we have a motion on the books if we were to reopen that for

2:06:01a similar vote is that a motion of reconsideration and or is it is is it a new motion that would

2:06:09take place now I'm not I'm not actually suggesting that we do that tonight I think we need to see

2:06:14what the regulations look like before we do any kind of a council statement but is it a

2:06:19reconsideration just so that I'm prepared for any future action that we need to take to ensure

2:06:26publicly that our community that we're being transparent with our community about about this

2:06:32council's position on we know we have to uphold it but we can still make a public statement about

2:06:39what we think of that I think we are we have freedom of speech in that regard.

2:06:42Um perhaps I can take that response Mayor Guthrie and through you to Councillor Caron

2:06:51I put a headset on because hopefully it wouldn't get the echo but I'm sensing this that's still

2:06:55going on I apologize for that. Councillor Caron we've often taken the position that when there are

2:06:59legislative changes reconsiderations may not be required fully in the context as they're outlined

2:07:07in the procedural bylaw that being said you you you make a great point in that we do need to take

2:07:13some time to again digest these changes that have come very quickly upon us and we could do that again

2:07:19in alignment and bringing forward a report to the September governance committee. Okay that's great I

2:07:25think I think it's important to wait until we see the regulations and then respond respond to that

2:07:30accordingly as a as a council um and last but not least I do have comments uh after questions Mr.

2:07:36Mayor so I'll reserve those but the only other question I had is at committee the whole I made

2:07:41an amendment to section 4.10 I section I um changing the wording of one word and in the amended

2:07:49procedural bylaw that's attached to council's agenda the the old wording is still there so can

2:07:55we just get confirmation from the clerk that the amendment to that wording has been changed or will

2:08:01be changed in the final bylaw once it's published. Through you Mr. Mayor to Councillor Caron that

2:08:06is correct so the the motion in the council memo that's been moved and seconded here does include

2:08:10all of the changes made at committee of the whole we don't traditionally update those specific

2:08:15documents between committee of the whole and council but we will make those in effect for the

2:08:18bylaw that's that's what I that's what I thought so thanks for that and I will um I'll reserve my

2:08:23comments for later thanks Mr. Mayor. All right and last I have Councillor Allt. Thank you Mayor Guthrie

2:08:30I really do want to say thank you very much to staff right across the whole corporation and

2:08:37as I'm listening I'm just thinking that there's a collective book out there

2:08:41how we spent our summer vacation and I don't envy you on that. I also I do want to appreciate

2:08:49CAO Stewart I heard you being very candid and very frustrated what was interesting is as much as

2:08:56we're talking about a procedural bylaw here two points that you raised I think are somewhat getting

2:09:01missed by us and that is the impact on city finances through the effect on development

2:09:07charges and park lands that we're going to have to wrestle with and and I would hope that anybody

2:09:12that presented here tonight will be aware that the procedural bylaw is only one aspect of the

2:09:18challenges ahead of us that being said I do have some questions for you as well. I just want to

2:09:25clarify without the regulations what we are trying to do is to predict how it is that we

2:09:31can insulate ourselves in light of what we expect the regulations to be coming forward

2:09:38would that be correct? Through Mayor Guthrie to Councillor Allt we have seen the act amended

2:09:45as it applies to Ottawa and so we are speculating that it will be exactly the same and that's the

2:09:50basis on which we've given you the advice and the memo and the direction that you've seen to date

2:09:55it could be different when the regulation is posted. But we're essentially trying to insulate

2:10:01ourselves as well at this point trying to keep us in a lane in which we are comfortable.

2:10:10Just questions for you and no disrespect to Mayor Guthrie as I'm asking this. I heard you talk about

2:10:16the Mayor possibly and questions asked about the Mayor enshrining what he might or he might do in

2:10:22the bylaw and stating no and what I heard from that is that Mayor Guthrie is essentially making

2:10:28personal statements of assumed and declined authority under strong Mayor powers and so what

2:10:34I'm asking is what is the authority under which any future Mayor is bound? I think that needs to be

2:10:44publicly clarified as well because this strikes me that this is a personal determination of

2:10:52Mayor Guthrie's and I respect that but that going forward if CAO Stewart becomes Mayor

2:11:01in the next election that he could say well I don't like what he's said I'm taking all those

2:11:07authorities and the lane that we're in you know be darned is that am I correct in that understanding?

2:11:14Through Mayor Guthrie to councillor all the powers in the act applied to the head of council

2:11:18and in this case Mayor Guthrie has chosen to delegate those powers as he is permitted to there

2:11:24are some that he just assumes the next head of council can make their own independent decisions

2:11:29that way and so when they come into office I imagine they will come in with all of the powers

2:11:34that are in this act and then they will choose accordingly. In other words for all intents and

2:11:38purposes I know this is outside your realm but we're looking at strong Mayor powers being an

2:11:43election issue from here on in until such time as they're rescinded by a government that realizes

2:11:48this was wrong headed. Oh I don't know. Okay and now I have to say it because I always do I'm

2:11:57circling but very kindly circling back to councillor O'Rourke she has a couple extra questions

2:12:02and then we'll get back to comments okay. Thank you Mayor Guthrie I appreciate it because I'm

2:12:05perseverating big time on the delegation authority so through and to you Mayor Guthrie and or to

2:12:15staff so if your intent is to delegate those authorities in terms of the the peace with

2:12:23administration why not put it into the delegation of authority by-law like why not

2:12:30codify it if we can because then it's not a decision that just gets posted to a website

2:12:37if it's in a by-law it has to come back to council to a vote and then if the head of council

2:12:44wants to veto it that's also clear but but why not put and I don't know if the right place is the

2:12:50procedural by-law or the delegation of authority by-law but why not make those three delegations

2:12:57enshrined in a by-law. Through the mayor to the councillor we'll have we will have to take this

2:13:05away but my understanding of this from our friends in legal is that the by-law is really at council's

2:13:11decision and direction the statute isn't is the the the more senior document of the two

2:13:19and so we have to default to the statute and how it is explained in the statute.

2:13:27Well I will think about that till September okay thank you and through you Mayor Guthrie the last

2:13:32question I have is um so our procedural by-law says we can't speak in contempt of any decision of

2:13:38the councillor committee once the vote is taken we're all supposed to sync from the same song sheet

2:13:42say I disagreed but I respect the decision of council right our code of conduct for council

2:13:47and local boards says we direct as a body and also that you respect the decision once it is taken

2:13:53as a body right so yeah so the question is yeah so I'm just asking procedural by-law I'm just asking

2:14:05does the procedural by-law change if a veto in essence is in contempt of a decision of the council

2:14:16so we make a decision as a body and we you know have majority and then the veto says well I

2:14:23disagreed with that and it happens in the period that follows so maybe this is a september question

2:14:30as well trying to get my head around how that is not contempt of a decision of the body of council

2:14:37um perhaps I can answer that Mayor Guthrie and through you to Councillor O'Rourke

2:14:42I think the way that the the legislation contemplates this is and it is up for interpretation we

2:14:46certainly can bring back a more full some response in september but I think the way the legislation

2:14:51contemplates this is the the progress of a veto and an override of that veto is really the final

2:15:00and end decision but then I believe our procedure by-law speaks to in terms of not speaking in a

2:15:05contempt of something a veto is still permissible because again to Ms. Sayles point the legislation

2:15:12and the statute prevails over the by-law at the end of the voting process of overrides and vetoes

2:15:19then that process can then um that process may maybe the that sort of final line in the

2:15:25sand in which then that that clause of the procedure by-law would would come into effect

2:15:33I appreciate the explanation I disagree so strongly but all right thanks very much

2:15:39Mr. Mayor maybe on perhaps some of this there is some of this folks that you can get into the

2:15:44discussion next week at these sessions that might help us with september tonight's a very difficult

2:15:49place and look and I don't need to polish the mayor's apple but he's in a difficult spot too

2:15:55because you're trying to work through this with you as a council as well and that is a tough spot

2:15:59for all of you and it's a tough spot for us too so I think we will try our best to well what are

2:16:06the various scenarios that could play out and I think it's easier if we all sort of leap to

2:16:11another mayor because then that sort of depersonalizes some of it of course or another council

2:16:17and we'll try to map that all out I'm not sure we'll get all of it of course but what are the

2:16:21various scenarios because councillors you ask you know when when you vote as a council that's

2:16:26generally the rule well council spoke and we speak as a voice even though I maybe didn't agree with

2:16:31that issue veto does change some of these things politically for folks so I think you know Stevens

2:16:39answers the right answer because we're coming at it from a very staff viewpoint I think there's other

2:16:44things to contemplate here and that might be a better place come Tuesday and Wednesday and then

2:16:49it might be a better place to try to answer this in September as well because at this stage there's

2:16:54a lot of what ifs and you haven't got a mayor that's that's done that yet now we need to prepare in

2:16:59case a mayor does do those things and what that might look for all of you so we're going to try

2:17:04our best to manage this with you and see where so you know where you might disagree with things

2:17:09that's okay but maybe that that's helpful to get us to September but it's it's really isn't a

2:17:14procedural bylaw piece tonight but let us get there with you next week and then into into the

2:17:20early part of the fall thank you and Mayor Guthrie I have three amendments two for the procedural

2:17:25bylaw and one for the delegation of authority bylaw yes yeah I'm aware but I did say I would just go

2:17:32to councillor Allt first so I'll just do that and then I'll head right back over to you so go ahead

2:17:37council roll thank you very much mayor Guthrie I did share with council an amendment that that I

2:17:44think is appropriate with regards to planning matters it would be an amendment to the amended

2:17:49procedural bylaw that's being presented and if I could have clerks put that up on screen it's actually

2:17:55moving what is currently the practice from further in our bylaw 6.4a I believe to a new section

2:18:044.8u and I've had many people that are quite willing to second this council Quran was the first

2:18:10person to write it to me so council Quran if you're still game uh council Quran is still game and if

2:18:16I may speak to it um I would yeah speak to it and thank you we'll move on yeah thank you uh what I've

2:18:22proposed is is that if we could keep it up on stage up on uh screen for just a minute if that's

2:18:27possible um uh clerks just for the audience what I've proposed is that the current length of

2:18:33speaking time for delegations to a council planning meeting be sustained and there's there's a there's

2:18:39a couple of reasons for that and I think that those that I know that that feel similarly have their

2:18:44own reasons as well um since we initially moved this from the committee of the whole to here uh

2:18:51what I like is that we are permitted sober second thought um and and and that occurs at council

2:18:58and I was thinking about this further and I think that I have to draw a distinction between council

2:19:02meetings and planning meetings whereas in council meetings we have many issues in front of us that

2:19:07are often not of a technical nature uh sometimes speaking uh time for uh somebody presenting in

2:19:13front of us five minutes is adequate however for planning because we're dealing with a technical

2:19:19subject and issues and language that the lay people are not necessarily familiar with sometimes

2:19:26it's very difficult for people to get their points out and similarly it's also very expensive for them

2:19:32to take them beyond a planning meeting and and I dare I say that uh professionalism um and uh

2:19:40aptitude working in the in the planning field does create a somewhat unequal field for residents

2:19:46and so I'm trying in some senses to restore a a certain amount of equity by saying give people

2:19:5410 minutes to speak on planning issues because this matters in their neighborhoods it matters to

2:19:59their homes it matters to their community and that the language technical background is often

2:20:04complicated uh people can't afford lawyers they're speaking from their hearts I think we owe them

2:20:11that 10 minutes to speak about something that matters very very much to them oftentimes it's

2:20:16their home and um I will leave it at that all right thank you are there any questions on this

2:20:22amendment at all okay go ahead Councillor Downer my understanding is this would still

2:20:29maintain it just at the public meeting not at the the decision meeting that's correct

2:20:37are there any comments at all Councillor Cronn yeah the reason why I seconded Mr. Mayor is

2:20:44if a planning application is ever appealed for whatever reason uh it is those delegations and

2:20:51what's brought forward during the planning process that can be used as evidence so that 10 minutes

2:20:57allows any delegation whether it's a on a technical matter uh entering data or whether it's the the

2:21:04applicant themselves presenting their their presenting their development application there

2:21:12there are times when it just cannot be done within 10 minutes so you know I don't think it's very often

2:21:17that we have a slew of delegations using a full 10 minutes there are times during a controversial

2:21:23application but I think I think the 10 minutes is still worth having a fulsome um discussion so

2:21:29that we can make an informed decision okay thank you just before I call the vote I'll just give you

2:21:36my opinions I disagree I think we all agreed at the beginning of our orientation as a council that

2:21:41we wanted effective and efficient meetings um our clerks stand by their report that they brought

2:21:47to us at committee that was unanimously decided upon for five minutes and our planning staff

2:21:56now have initiated a real drive for developers and proponents to have what's called neighborhood

2:22:03meetings prior to the applications coming forward that has been installed as a process

2:22:10that's been encouraged and is already happening uh delegations can email all of us phone all of us

2:22:17have a coffee with all of us write a letter into us all prior to a five minute or a 10 minute

2:22:24conversation at a microphone um and so uh the other thing too is is if we ever have questions

2:22:30afterwards um of a delegate whether it's five minutes or even 10 we um can ask them a lot of

2:22:37questions they can stand at the microphone for an extra 15 minutes sometimes answering questions so

2:22:42um I'm not here to stifle people but I am here to try to run efficient and effective meetings

2:22:47and I think becoming um and staying on that course for me has been a big theme for me uh and I thought

2:22:53it was a big theme for us as well as a council and staff moving forward so I'm hoping that we

2:22:58can uphold that kind of theme with this vote so I will not be supporting that oh okay councillor

2:23:04billings and then I'll call the vote um I apologize mr. mayor through you I just wanted to ask staff

2:23:11maybe uh mr. O'Brien do we know uh whether surrounding municipalities or southern Ontario um

2:23:19the other municipalities for the majority do they just allow the five minutes have we taken have we

2:23:25taken a look to see what their rules are regarding um the time for delegations on planning matters

2:23:32through you mr. mayor to councillor buildings I will say that we haven't done the full uh

2:23:37list and roster of all the city's comparators but um we did do a quick search um you know in the

2:23:42lead up to this report coming to council and quite frankly council it's a mixed bag out there in

2:23:47terms of timing of delegates some are five minutes for all meetings uh city of Hamilton

2:23:53Cambridge come to mind some are actually 10 minutes for all aspects but they only allow you know

2:23:59once at committee and not at council kind of thing some allow only a certain amount of delegates

2:24:04at a meeting like they cap the total number of delegates at a meeting or per item um I would say

2:24:10generally speaking there is a a five minute sort of majority out there is what I would say in in

2:24:18in terms of the ones that we uh we did do some research on but again mixed bag councillor buildings

2:24:24okay and then also through you mr. mayor uh well the the delegate they would be allowed

2:24:30under what you're recommending the five minutes at the public meeting and then another five minutes

2:24:36at the decision point in time by council is that not correct through you mr. mayor that's

2:24:41correct it would be five minutes at all meeting um and agenda items that's that's what's being

2:24:47proposed currently and then of course to add on correspondence as well yes through you mr. mayor

2:24:54nothing would prevent that that's correct council billings okay thank you Stephen okay thank you

2:25:01so I'll call the vote all those in favor of the amendment um please raise your hand it's just easier

2:25:07for me just raise your hand all right so we got clausen galler and alts and chou and ororak and

2:25:16caron and downer and richardson and katyn which makes it easy for the not in favor which would be

2:25:25gibson billings and myself okay so that passes and that was your only amendment right okay over to

2:25:32you councillor roe pardon me sorry mr. mayor um I used to see counselor boost until is connected

2:25:36to the meeting I'm sorry so I just want to make sure we're able to capture councillor boat I'm sorry

2:25:41on that yeah so sorry councillor boost until can you hear me okay

2:25:54councillor boost until are you still with us you'll have to mark that as a as a no vote I guess

2:26:03through you mr. mayorly marked as a no vote it doesn't change the outcome of that no I know yep

2:26:08I won't veto it either okay okay councillor ork thank you mayor guthrie um I have two for the

2:26:17procedural bylaw and one for the delegation authority bylaw first one is your motion I'm happy

2:26:23to move it it's that the procedural bylaw included as attachment one to the 2023 governance review

2:26:29dated June 6 2023 the amended to add the singing there's a type over there of old canada silent

2:26:36reflection and first nations acknowledgments to all meeting types I'm happy to move it because we had

2:26:44yep I don't know if I have a seconder see if there's a seconder all great all thank you go

2:26:49I appreciate you bringing it forth I'm really pleased to to move on your behalf

2:26:55because we had a large joint meeting and the territorial acknowledgement was really quite

2:27:03conspicuents by its absence through through no you know no fault of anyone's but it was a workshop

2:27:10and so we didn't tend to do the territorial acknowledgement and certainly that's

2:27:16um that's something that we can't really do too often frankly thank you uh

2:27:26any questions on that one anybody or pretty straightforward before I call the vote

2:27:29councillor oh councillor Richardson is with us councillor busentil you're you're with us yes

2:27:38yes sorry I spilled my TL over my desk and computer so I have to step away

2:27:43okay okay did you did did you hear the last vote I just wanted to make sure with hybrid I want to be

2:27:52as amiable as possible did you did you were you there for the moving of the last motion sorry

2:27:59I was cleaning that sorry okay no no problem no problem all right it it was about you paying for

2:28:07every lunch from here until the end of the term so it passed so thank you very much yeah

2:28:14all right uh so on this one I'll call the vote is anyone against

2:28:20all right and councillor Richardson just can't can't see you on screen or you can do audio if you

2:28:25want are you against this I spilled their tea sorry all right I guess you'll have to count that as a

2:28:37no vote okay it passes though all right and your second one councillor orak thank you mayor Guthrie

2:28:45moved by me and seconded by councillor goller that section 4.10 motions and order of voting

2:28:53item c be amended to include quote and that it be read aloud and quote so the new clause reads

2:29:00quote when a counselor moves a motion or an amendment to a motion that is not included as

2:29:04part of the agenda package that councillor shall provide a copy of the motion to the mayor or chair

2:29:09and that it be read aloud prior to the vote being taken the reason mayor Guthrie I let's see if

2:29:17there's a seconder councillor goller all right goller yep okay go ahead so the reason I brought

2:29:22this and we we had discussed this as a convention is that somebody who's visually impaired who is

2:29:29using a screen reader to read our agenda at home only has the staff recommendations they don't have

2:29:36anything in order to be able to to have the amendments read to them and so if all we do

2:29:43is post the amendment to the screen someone who's following from home is is missing that piece of

2:29:50information because it's being presented only visually thank you so just a quick oh I okay I'll

2:29:59ask a question just after you councillor all your first thank you very much I I do support this but

2:30:04I but I have a fairly important question to believe either for the mover or for perhaps clerks

2:30:11the reading is is the part that that I think is most important that we sometimes come across long

2:30:18motions and we also come across some motions that are very difficult to read whom is it that is

2:30:25responsible for the reading the person putting the motion or would it be staff are you wanting me

2:30:38as the chair to answer that or or the mover well I think I think the one probably I think it could

2:30:48probably be pretty easily done by either the mover or the chair right before the chair calls the

2:30:55vote can just say okay this is what's about to be done but I do you kind of captured my question

2:31:01councillor all if you don't mind me jumping in to the clerks I support this as well it's not an

2:31:06issue but I just want to talk about like logistically how this would actually work we sometimes come out

2:31:11here with appointments to committees that are like three or four pages long are are are we

2:31:20suggesting that we we we we read like four or five pages long of things or is there a way in which

2:31:29a chair or a mover could move something that is not read maybe back to you I don't know not every

2:31:38single word but is is is verbally capturing what's on the screen I'm just trying to I'm just trying

2:31:46to make sure that there's some leeway in in your motion to allow some space to be

2:31:55I think you see where I'm you're trying to go I'm not trying to stifle it by any means I'm just trying

2:32:00to be logistical about it so in in the example of committee appointments and the clerks can help

2:32:07me come up with the language perhaps in September when this unicorn of a procedural viola comes back

2:32:15in a case like that that amendment isn't sort of pertinent to the debate and the discussion

2:32:22going back and forth right so sometimes these amendments really make the meeting take a turn

2:32:27so I would imagine in something like appointments you could say and council came back and we are

2:32:32tabling the following appointments they're on the screen and they'll be published so that you really

2:32:37could read them later right but the the meeting doesn't turn on those kinds of amendments whereas

2:32:45different motions presented during a meeting could really change the flavor of the debate and

2:32:51somebody who's just listening might need more than just a display on the screen

2:32:58and those don't tend to be very long yeah I would agree so let's you know my if I can just give a

2:33:04comment before I call the vote let's give it a go let's like let's let's give it a go right let's

2:33:09try this out that's that's kind of my position on it before the vote I think it is a good idea and

2:33:16yeah we'll just I actually don't think it will probably be as complicated as my question actually

2:33:22presented itself but I just want to make sure that nuance was kind of known up front but it's so

2:33:27rare anyways so I get what you're getting at go ahead there is another part of the procedural

2:33:33viola that says as a best practice we will if you wanted some wiggle room we could do that

2:33:39or we could just try it and see how that goes I say we try it that's that's my my opinion me too

2:33:45I mean if we try it even a few times between now and September we have an opportunity to say oh my

2:33:50gosh you know something's wrong or something but I doubt it will be so okay as I'll just call the

2:33:55vote on this then is everyone good any questions or comments no is anyone against this one

2:34:01don't hear or see hear hear or see anything so thank you very much that passes unanimously you had a

2:34:06third go ahead the third is on the delegation of authority bylaw

2:34:14and that is the table three row 1.2 of the delegation of authority bylaw included at

2:34:19attachment seven to the 2023 governance review dated June 6 2023 be amended to return the noted

2:34:27limitation to five years counselor Chu has seconded that if I can just translate that for folks

2:34:34the recommendation in the chart would allow staff delegated authority you know as long as it's within

2:34:42the capital funding the the allocation you know the procurement bylaw all that stuff but it would

2:34:48allow them to enter into contracts up to 10 years I'm a little uncomfortable with that length and

2:34:55so I am recommending that we stick with the five years and that any contract that would bind the

2:35:04city for the provision of acquisition of goods or services stays with the five years as as was

2:35:10originally in the delegation of authority bylaw and and anything supplementary that is needed

2:35:15could come to council for ratification okay thank you I have a quick question but after

2:35:22counselor clausen through you mayor and I think to staff how many contracts would this apply to

2:35:32like the 10 years contract period and what would the administrative load look like to add in those

2:35:38extra renewals so through the mayor to counselor clausen the intention behind this was not for

2:35:45all contracts it's simply for those within the culture and recreation team and they're generally

2:35:50the intention was for those long-term leases and so a couple good examples Guelph youth music center

2:35:54the tennis club they actually have 20 year leases now that was past practice and so the challenge

2:36:01and and why we recommended the change from five to 10 years was because those organizations in

2:36:07fairness are going to be looking to if you've had a 20 year lease dropping down to a five year

2:36:11lease is not overly appealing but in order to renew at a 10 year lease as an example that now

2:36:15means we're going to need to be bringing those to council so I would think it probably means

2:36:20once or twice a year at worst I would think I can think of one within the next year that we would

2:36:26now need to bring to council where the organization was willing to renegotiate a lease with staff if

2:36:31they could have had 10 years but if we're dropping it down to five years that is no longer that that

2:36:37doesn't give them the stability that they need for longer term funding purposes so it wasn't

2:36:41intended it is only related to those culture and recreation contracts in fairness and conversation

2:36:47with councillor work I I completely understand where she is coming from and the desire was to keep it

2:36:52at the five years we had we had worked through was there better language we could get to tighten up

2:36:57what we were intending which was that limited number of contracts but I also completely

2:37:02understand where councillor work was coming from which was that having those small number come to

2:37:07council each year likely I mean I don't want to put words in the she can as the mover comment

2:37:15further but that there wasn't a significant enough one of them that it felt overly onerous so

2:37:21I will say that was a staff recommendation that we go to 10 because we were looking to get that

2:37:24delegated authority where we had had it previously and a number of these leases were they say the

2:37:29two that come to mind were the the two I mentioned Guelph youth music and the tennis club where they

2:37:35had 20 year leases and so when they were up we were just looking to be able to have the delegated

2:37:39authority to renegotiate them at the 10-year mark okay thank you and then my only question is like I

2:37:46think correct me if I'm wrong I'm just going to pick like the cba I think we have with the Legion

2:37:51am I right and that's like that's where it's so minor but it's like basically helping them get

2:37:58the Sleeman Center for every remembrance day that's what their cba is that's it so is that something

2:38:04that then would have been would have been on the five-year renewal but now it would be something

2:38:10that you'd be like you know what like this is just a one-year thing to help them every November

2:38:1411th that you would move to 10 years so I'm just trying to I'm just trying to show the extremes

2:38:21of it right so typically our cbas we tend to do more in the I believe in the sort of four-year

2:38:27range and apologies miss Evans would be able to help better but I'm those cbas are normally in that

2:38:35shorter range I don't believe we have looked to extend any of them to 10 years because sometimes

2:38:41community need where where cbas change the cba community need may change so we haven't done

2:38:47longer than four years but certainly having that 10-year flexibility would give us that option for

2:38:52something like for example the Legion where we're doing that annual remembrance day ceremony

2:38:57for us it was really about those it was about long-term building leases where we have a city

2:39:02asset that we are leasing to a community-based organization and they were looking for that

2:39:06stability of longer than a five-year lease we can still give them that stability but we'll

2:39:10just be coming to council to that that will be an operational matter that you haven't seen before

2:39:15that we will be bringing to council okay all right thank you all right so um I'll call the vote on

2:39:23this one then so I would say anyone against please raise your hand all right so I got billings and

2:39:36um I almost called it O'Brien there billings uh clausen and galler and myself and downer I think

2:39:46that's it so that passes with five against thank you and those are your three right okay all right

2:39:55and so with that I am to the comment section and my my list only had three so downer and

2:40:02katin and karon hey thank you to you mr. mayor I think this has been a an excellent discussion

2:40:11tonight around the procedure bylaw and strong mayor powers and our collective somewhat um

2:40:21caution and a little bit of confusion about how we move forward and angst so I think that is and

2:40:26it you know the community is reflecting that as well so I want to thank staff for the work they've

2:40:32had to do in the last little while to sort of get this together on top of all the other legislation

2:40:37they've had to prepare for um and I I think you know I really appreciate a lot of the delegations

2:40:45you know they're struggling trying to keep it towards the the strong towards the procedure

2:40:50bylaw when you know there's this overriding issue the strong mayor powers that um is creating anxiety

2:40:57around you know in the community around the this undemocratic legislation or what how how people

2:41:03are perceiving that and the only thing I wanted to add to them is like you you've provided your voice

2:41:08here tonight on that publicly but I would also really encourage the delegations that came tonight

2:41:15because everybody spoke um in opposition to the strong mayor powers and that's that's that needs to

2:41:21the the province needs to hear that and and I know Mike Schreiner has uh MPP has spoken out

2:41:27against it but I would really encourage um the delegations that came tonight and anybody else

2:41:32who's concerned about it to actually send their delegation to the premier I mean there's there's

2:41:38a uh you know you can go to the the contact the premier correspondence.premier.gov.on.ca

2:41:47and you can just cut and paste your whole delegation into that and and send it and I think I think

2:41:53that's important I think even though some people may think like that you can't do anything about it

2:41:58I think it's important to send that message I think as many people as possible can can express

2:42:05their displeasure to the directly to the premier about this issue and you just need to google contact

2:42:12the premier in Ontario and that will come up but I do think that's important and um that people

2:42:19do that and and just cut and paste your delegation that this is what I delegated to city council I'm

2:42:24opposed to to this um undemocratic legislation so that's what I would encourage people to do

2:42:30as well as well as what you have said to us tonight. Great thank you and councillor Kate and then

2:42:36Caron. So I really wanted to thank all the delegates for coming in and speaking to the

2:42:42procedural bylaw and the strong mayor powers I think that you gave a lot of really good information

2:42:49and your passion like your passion was very obvious I also wanted to thank staff for answering my

2:42:56many many emails that I sent um above like beyond like so many emails uh so I'm glad that advisory

2:43:06committees are not going to be affected by this and that there is going to be an opportunity to

2:43:10have a conversation about the ethics and checks and balances and to have standards for future mayors

2:43:16who may not see the hiring and firing portions of the powers and how those will intersect with

2:43:23procedural bylaws in September and I very completely different note I really appreciate how the bylaws

2:43:31were reconfigured with gender neutral language without any requests for me it's the true measure

2:43:38of allyship to improve systems and language without it being a request and so I it made me very very

2:43:45happy amidst all the other frustrating legislation to see that and it was very enlightening so thank you.

2:43:54Thank you councillor and Caron. Thank you Mr. Mayor one of the things I I love about my

2:43:59ward mate councillor Downer is her her optimism and her her love of of a calm and measured approach

2:44:07and her belief that the premier might actually be listening if he received those letters I don't

2:44:12have that confidence because what I'm hearing from and I this is not opinion it's stated over and over

2:44:19again in the press I have a mandate I have the authority I can do whatever I want municipalities

2:44:24or creatures of the province this whole issue is so much bigger than Guelph every Canadian

2:44:32should be outraged across the country about what's happening on Ontario no other western

2:44:37democracy including the strong mayor model in in the US has anything like this it compromises in my

2:44:44opinion the neutrality and the integrity of our civil service it it's it's a it's a threat to

2:44:50democracy in so many ways that our delegates so eloquently and universally expressed here this

2:44:57evening so when I thank our delegates for for you know being so passionate democracy is eroded

2:45:04slowly we we know that from human history we know that just watching what's happening to the south

2:45:12of us and here we are in the province of Ontario and it's happening right here this is a foundational

2:45:17shift in our definition of what democracy means and bell should be ringing all over the country

2:45:24quite simply bill bill 3 and bill 39 must be overturned and we must have constitutional reform

2:45:31at the at the federal level as well so Councillor Downer said get your letters into our premier

2:45:37they should also be copied to our MP because the constitution the Canadian Constitution

2:45:44and the intergovernmental relationship between provinces and and Canadian federalism give

2:45:50provinces the authority to tell municipalities how when where how high they will jump everything

2:45:58and we saw that Supreme Court challenge with the Toronto election when the day after the

2:46:04nominations closed the the premier gave a cut the number of wards in the city of Toronto and that

2:46:12went the provincial government upheld the city of Toronto's appeal but it went to supreme court

2:46:17and the supreme court actually basically said section 92.8 gives provinces the right to do that

2:46:26and therefore it's not it's it's not a constitutional violation because provinces have that authority

2:46:33so all levels of government at the municipal level we need to rise up we need to work with

2:46:38AMO and FCM we need to rise up as a community in 2026 send those letters to the province

2:46:45and also a copy to our MP because we do need a revised relationship between all three levels

2:46:54of government so that we have the tools that we need we actually we're in line with provincial

2:47:00priorities we we've said over the course of the last two weeks since this announcement happened

2:47:05we want to build more housing we want more empowerment we want the resources to build

2:47:09the infrastructure we we need the authority to actually be able to make housing decisions

2:47:14so this isn't just about strong mayor powers it is much much bigger than that it's about a whole

2:47:19new deal for cities that gives us the tools that we need as civil servants and as councillors not

2:47:26just as mayors to actually build cities and we're not going to get that unless we have we have levels

2:47:32of reform at all three levels of government that give us those those resources we need

2:47:39and we all have the same goal and that's to build a great community and if we keep focused on that

2:47:45then I think we will have done our jobs all right thank you councillor all that I have you for

2:47:50final comments thank you thank you we're trying to all keep to the procedural bylaw I'm going to

2:47:55stick to the procedural bylaw but I will veer out of it a bit I do want to thank staff very much

2:48:00for the work on the procedural bylaw and I also wish to thank both council and the community

2:48:06for the same I think that this speaks very well of our community's concern for governance and

2:48:12that's where I'm going to veer off because one of the things that struck me about this is that

2:48:18we would only we would have had very few if any any delegates here for just a procedural bylaw

2:48:24had there not been a an elephant in the room and regrettably the elephant is somewhat American

2:48:31this flies in the face of the Westminster parliamentary tradition even Doug Ford and

2:48:36Pierre Trudeau do not have the authority that strong mayors are supposedly given by this

2:48:42in order to do what the province has told strong mayors to do I I feel sorry for strong mayors

2:48:48because honestly Mayor Guthrie I think whether you use it or not you're you're caught in a vice

2:48:55somebody's not going to like you unless these powers are curtailed as we have tried to do although

2:49:01I think we should go further in order for us to understand that we are a council we are not an

2:49:06executive and a group of councillors we've separated those powers and we've come back to a very

2:49:12perverse form of American republicanism the president of the United States does not have the

2:49:16power to make a law it's bizarre and this is just insane that that we've we've taken from

2:49:23American principles of law something that says that we as a council must overturn

2:49:28something that a strong mayor has done I wish strong mayors all the best as they grapple with

2:49:33this I also wish all of Ontario the best as we grapple with this and ultimately we return power

2:49:40to council not an executive of one and councillors sitting around a horseshoe okay okay thank you

2:49:49all right I'm gonna call the vote but I get to say one statement before I call the vote and that is

2:49:54is difficult and for some people to not like me or like me but I know that at least 72 percent

2:49:59of this place likes me called the city of Guelph so that's good with that I'll call the vote is

2:50:06anyone against this is as amended by the way main motion as amended okay it's unanimous thank you very

2:50:14much the bylaws also as amended that's what I was going to say thank you um bylaw 2023 20807

2:50:302023 20808 2023 20809 would someone be willing to move those for me

2:50:40oh it looks like it's council Coran I'm sorry I I missed the other page I was already I was so

2:50:44excited that the night was my night say the other two numbers for me yeah 20791 20805

2:50:51sorry I missed the other page who's going to help me with uh secondary on that

2:50:57councillor downer perfect anyone against those bylaws okay seeing and hearing none that's

2:51:06unanimous thank you and I have just an update I know it was pretty uh much kind of on the radar