Recommendation Report - New Fee Structure for Building Permit Applications be received. That the amendment to Schedule “A” of the Building By-law (2015) – 19985…

6:56:47I appreciate it and I think all of us

6:56:49appreciate the effort there.

6:56:52Before we move on, I'm going to preempt something

6:56:58before we get past eight.

6:57:01So Dylan has let me know that the automatic time

6:57:06for adjournment for committee of the whole is 8 p.m.

6:57:09So I'd like to ask my colleagues

6:57:13if we're okay to go past 8 p.m.

6:57:16Is anyone against?

6:57:20Oh, thank you, sorry.

6:57:22Mayor Guthrie and Councillor Goller

6:57:23are moving and seconding anybody against?

6:57:26Call it again.

6:57:28No, I'm seeing no one and Councillor Gibson,

6:57:31could you just clarify?

6:57:32I think that you're fine.

6:57:34I'm fine.

6:57:35Thank you.

6:57:37So we've got staff switching over to our last item,

6:57:43which is a recommendation report for a new fee structure

6:57:47for our building permit applications.

6:57:53Just pulling up everybody who's...

6:57:59So this is a public meeting under section seven

6:58:01of the Building Code Act.

6:58:03Delegations are permitted a maximum of 10 minutes.

6:58:07We do have a presentation from our chief building officer,

6:58:10Jeremy Lorr, who is standing right in front of me already.

6:58:12So thank you.

6:58:14And we've also got Jim Bruzezi, did I get it right?

6:58:19BMA Management Consulting Inc. here as well.

6:58:22So thank you for being here.

6:58:24And I'm gonna hand things over to you, Mr. Lorr.

6:58:29Thank you.

6:58:30Great, thank you.

6:58:32Good evening.

6:58:34So I'm Jeremy Lorr, chief building official.

6:58:37And really I'm just here to introduce Jim Bruzeez,

6:58:42but first I just say we engage the services

6:58:46of BMA Management Consulting Inc.

6:58:50to carry out the building permit fees study.

6:58:53And Jim Bruzeez is here with a presentation on that for us.

6:58:59Thank you.

6:59:03Thank you and welcome, Mr. Bruzeez.

6:59:06Thank you, Madam Chairman, members of council.

6:59:25As Jeremy said, we've conducted a comprehensive review

6:59:30of the golf building permit fees.

6:59:34The last review was done a number of years ago.

6:59:37And since that last review, there's been a number of changes

6:59:41to the Building Code Act, which has in effect changed

6:59:44some of the processes required in the building operations

6:59:48that must be or should be reflected in the user fees.

6:59:53The objectives of the study was first of all,

6:59:57to ensure compliance with the Ontario Building Code Act.

7:00:01And under the act, it states that user fees must be based

7:00:07on the anticipated reasonable cost

7:00:10of providing the service.

7:00:12The next objective is to support full cost recovery

7:00:16and financial sustainability.

7:00:18And in that, we've included all of the direct cost

7:00:22and indirect costs associated with enforcement

7:00:25of the building code.

7:00:26And then maintain transparent, equitable,

7:00:30and defensible fees and fee structures.

7:00:33We provide a clear rationale for each of the fee calculations,

7:00:38alignment with best municipal practices.

7:00:43So we've also reflected some of the insights

7:00:45from some of the comparator municipalities

7:00:48that we undertook benchmarking with.

7:00:54So in terms of just a little bit of the background,

7:00:58in terms of the building services,

7:01:01it's quite a lot of workload involved.

7:01:06They process about 1,800 building permits annually.

7:01:11And these building permits obviously cover

7:01:14three different classes of properties,

7:01:16or four different classes of properties,

7:01:18essentially residential, multi-residential,

7:01:22industrial, and commercial.

7:01:24And some of the actions or activities,

7:01:29the building department conducts plan reviews,

7:01:32inspections, and enforcement.

7:01:34The building department operates under an enterprise fund,

7:01:38which means that the funding of the expenditures

7:01:43of the building department to enforce the building code

7:01:46is entirely met from user fees,

7:01:49and there's no taxation subsidy involved.

7:01:57Looked at the trends in terms of building construction,

7:02:01and you can see here,

7:02:03this is the construction activity in dollars

7:02:07from 2021 to 2025.

7:02:10You can see that there was a trend upwards from 21 to 23.

7:02:15It actually peaked in 23 at 892 million.

7:02:19And then from then, the last couple of years,

7:02:22there's been an economic downturn

7:02:25that you're all aware of.

7:02:27And then building activity dropped from the 892 million

7:02:31to 365 million, and then in 2025, 451 million.

7:02:36So you can see from this chart,

7:02:38building activity is very volatile.

7:02:42And the other thing that the chart did show

7:02:47is that, sorry, I think I'm going the right way now.

7:03:07Yeah, sorry.

7:03:08Yeah, so in terms of the construction activity

7:03:10on this chart also, you can see the color codes.

7:03:14The blue represents residential construction,

7:03:18and you can see that it's been relatively flat

7:03:22over the five-year period, slight reduction in 2025 from 2021.

7:03:29But the bigger construction activity involved

7:03:33the multi-residential sector, the red lines there,

7:03:36and you can see that it was quite extensive

7:03:38over the last five years.

7:03:39And then the other one is the ICI.

7:03:42There was a lot of ICI activity over the last five years.

7:03:49In terms of the volumes, the number of building permits,

7:03:53you can see from this chart,

7:03:55the construction activity was very volatile.

7:03:59But the number of permits, you can see it's pretty flat.

7:04:02And as I say, it averaged about 1,864 permits a year.

7:04:08So it's been relatively stable over the period.

7:04:12The thing, though, with the building permits,

7:04:17there's been a growing share of lower revenue,

7:04:20higher workload-type permits.

7:04:25So there's been, over the last couple of years,

7:04:29some of the multi-residential, for example,

7:04:31has decreased slightly,

7:04:33but that's been taken up from alterations and renovations.

7:04:40In terms of the revenue performance,

7:04:43the red line shows the budget, budgeted revenues.

7:04:48You can see that in 2024, in 2025,

7:04:54it's looking at the blue line,

7:04:56the actual revenues were a lot lower

7:05:01than the budgeted revenues.

7:05:03In 2024, the actual revenues were about 4.4 million

7:05:08lower than the budget.

7:05:09And in 2025, they were about 3.2 million lower

7:05:13than the budget.

7:05:19So the Building Code Act, as a result of that volatility

7:05:23that I talked about in terms of building construction

7:05:25and the types of construction,

7:05:28the Building Code Act allows municipalities

7:05:31to implement reserves.

7:05:35And that's a way of smoothing that volatility.

7:05:38And Guelph has obviously implemented a reserve fund.

7:05:43And this is the Building Reserve Fund,

7:05:45balances from 2021 to 2020, projected 2026.

7:05:50And you can see it was fairly healthy in 21, 22, 23.

7:05:54And then, as a result of that decline

7:05:57in the construction activity,

7:05:59you can see that there was draws

7:06:01from the Building Stabilization Reserve

7:06:03to fund the expenditures.

7:06:05And it dropped from 5.8 million at its peak

7:06:10to at the end of 2025, about 1.3 million.

7:06:14But it's projected to actually be in a negative

7:06:17by the end of 2026.

7:06:24Best practices in terms of reserve funds,

7:06:27what you should keep in reserve funds

7:06:29in terms of operating costs.

7:06:33And the leading practice is that

7:06:35what municipalities try to do

7:06:37is to have a building reserve balance

7:06:42that is about 100 to 300% of the operating costs.

7:06:46And again, that's to smooth that volatility

7:06:50that we looked at.

7:06:54So in terms of the methodology,

7:06:56we looked at all of the costs,

7:06:58the direct costs, the indirect costs.

7:07:00We did a process mapping exercise with staff

7:07:03where they identified all of the processes

7:07:07that are involved in the application review,

7:07:10the plan checks, the site inspections,

7:07:13and the issuance of the permit.

7:07:15And then they also identified the staff

7:07:19that were involved and the number of hours

7:07:21for each of the activities under each of those activities.

7:07:26The cost assignment, what we did is based

7:07:29on the full cost and the processing activities,

7:07:33we calculated hourly rates for the cost of services

7:07:37and we put those into buckets

7:07:40in terms of residential, commercial,

7:07:45and special project permits.

7:07:50So it was an activity-based costing exercise

7:07:52that we undertook, which in effect links the staff time

7:07:55and resources to the types of permits.

7:07:59We used the process maps and burden hourly rates.

7:08:03What I mean by burden hourly rates is that

7:08:06to calculate the hours of the individuals

7:08:08performing the services, we only use productive hours.

7:08:13So what we do is we reduce the total number

7:08:17of potential hours in a year and subtract things

7:08:21like vacation pay, sick time, that type of thing,

7:08:24to come up with the direct processing productive hours.

7:08:30So that provides a defensible evidence-based costing

7:08:34and improves equity across the permit types.

7:08:38So some of the key findings, the current fees

7:08:41do not recover the full fees, as we saw from the charges

7:08:46to the reserve.

7:08:47Renovations and alterations were significantly underpriced

7:08:51when we did our process mapping and costing.

7:08:53Non-residential projects involve greater complexity

7:08:59and that should be reflected in terms of

7:09:03renovation and alteration costs.

7:09:06What's happening now is your renovation

7:09:08and alteration permit fee is identical,

7:09:12regardless of the class of permit.

7:09:15So residential, commercial, industrial

7:09:17all pay the same fee currently.

7:09:20And what we're recommending is that there's different

7:09:23resource involvements in terms of commercial

7:09:26versus residential, industrial versus residential.

7:09:29So that renovation alteration fee should be adjusted

7:09:35accordingly and a different charge

7:09:37for each property class.

7:09:40So as a result of the current situation,

7:09:43there's some cross-subsidization between permit types.

7:09:46In fact, what's happening is the new development

7:09:49is supporting the renovations and alterations,

7:09:53subsidizing the renovations and alterations.

7:09:58So the current fees, you're employing

7:09:59a lot of the best, most of the best practices.

7:10:02You're charging a per square foot fee

7:10:04by building classification.

7:10:07You have flat fees for small projects,

7:10:09things like decks and pools.

7:10:11You have a minimum permit fee and there's annual updates

7:10:17that are done through a dedicated bylaw.

7:10:20And generally what's happening is you're inflating it

7:10:23by the salary and benefit increases,

7:10:27which is the majority of the cost of the building department.

7:10:30Some of the changes that we propose,

7:10:34as I talked about renovations and alterations,

7:10:36we're recommending an increase in renovation

7:10:39and alteration fees and also differentiating

7:10:43residential versus non-residential renovation

7:10:46and alteration fees.

7:10:49There's been more modest increases in new construction.

7:10:52As I said, right now, the new construction

7:10:55is essentially supporting the alterations and renovations

7:11:00and maintaining the flat fees for the smaller projects.

7:11:04So the outcome of that is improved cost recovery,

7:11:08better alignment between workload and fees,

7:11:11and reduced cross-up subsidization.

7:11:16Some of the things, as I say, we looked at

7:11:19best practices from other municipalities

7:11:22and these are items that we saw in other user fees

7:11:25of other municipalities that we are recommending

7:11:31that they be reviewed for implementation

7:11:33in the city of Guelph.

7:11:35Things like expedited permit review fees.

7:11:38So in a lot of municipalities,

7:11:40builders want an expedited permit.

7:11:43They want to close quickly.

7:11:46And some municipalities provide that service,

7:11:48but they charge a higher, obviously, higher fee for it.

7:11:51Stale permit maintenance fees.

7:11:55One of the issues is that there's a number of

7:11:58stale permits that are, for example, beyond a year

7:12:03and there's a cost to maintain those.

7:12:05So that should be a separate charge to the person

7:12:08that has the outstanding permit.

7:12:11And that's an incentive for the person

7:12:14to close on the permit.

7:12:16Transfer fees with ownership changes.

7:12:20Re-inspection fees.

7:12:23A lot of municipalities do a re-inspection charge

7:12:27after the second inspection.

7:12:30And again, it's an incentive to make sure

7:12:32that the work is done properly the first time.

7:12:35Additional plan review.

7:12:37And again, the same situation.

7:12:39A lot of municipalities charge for plan resubmissions

7:12:43after the second submission.

7:12:47And again, it's an incentive to put in appropriate plans.

7:12:55So in terms of the benchmarking,

7:12:56as they say, we conducted a benchmarking.

7:12:59The other classes are included in the report,

7:13:02but just to show you the residential class,

7:13:04you can see the municipalities that we compared against.

7:13:07The peer municipalities.

7:13:09Mostly municipalities in the surrounding area.

7:13:13And you can see the green dotted line.

7:13:17The average currently, the yellow,

7:13:21well fees are the current fees for residential.

7:13:25And you're just slightly below the average.

7:13:28And as a result of the recommended changes,

7:13:32you're just slightly above the average.

7:13:36But one of the things that I should note on this as well

7:13:39is that a number of these municipalities

7:13:42are facing the same situation as the city of Guelph

7:13:45and are currently undertaking planning fees.

7:13:47So again, this chart will change over the course of the year.

7:13:55So we did some scenario testing.

7:13:57As a result of the fee increases,

7:13:59what would happen across different scenarios?

7:14:02So we looked at the highest construction activity,

7:14:06which was in 2023.

7:14:09The construction value was about 892 million.

7:14:13Based on that, you collected about 4.6 million.

7:14:18Based on our fee recommendations,

7:14:21that would have been 5.8 million.

7:14:24So an increase of about 1.1 million.

7:14:27And it would have actually provided a surplus.

7:14:31Scenario two, the lowest.

7:14:33The lowest construction value was 451,000.

7:14:39The fees collected on that was about 2.2 million.

7:14:43Based on our fee calculation, recommended fees,

7:14:46that would equate to about 2.7 million.

7:14:49So an increase of 500,000.

7:14:52And then looking at the average over the five years,

7:14:56the current fees were 3.2 million.

7:14:59And based on the new fees, they would be about 4 million,

7:15:03which is an increase of about 751,000.

7:15:07So you can see from a couple of the scenarios,

7:15:10the fee increases alone don't eliminate the deficits.

7:15:14Construction activity has to also be increasing

7:15:19to reach a break-even situation.

7:15:23And the other thing that this shows is it reinforces

7:15:27the need to have a reserve fund.

7:15:31So we're recommending that you adopt the proposed 2026,

7:15:372027 fee schedule on an ongoing basis

7:15:42that you annually adjust the fees

7:15:44based on the salary and benefit increases.

7:15:49Maintain a reserve, try to maintain a reserve balance

7:15:51of about 100 to 300% of the operating expenditures

7:15:55and evaluate the implementation

7:15:58of those new administrative fees that I talked about.

7:16:02And that's the end of the presentation, Madam Chair,

7:16:05and be happy to answer any questions.

7:16:09Thank you very much for the presentation.

7:16:11I'd like to ask my colleagues if you have any questions.

7:16:17Councillor Goller.

7:16:19Thank you, I'm through you, Chair Klassen.

7:16:22Thank you very much for the presentation.

7:16:24My question is about the implementation

7:16:27and I'm not sure if that would go to,

7:16:28but we approve this at the end of the month.

7:16:31When do the new fees take place

7:16:33and how do we notify the people

7:16:36that are builders and whatnot about the new fees?

7:16:43Sorry, through you, sorry, through you, Chair.

7:16:47So the bylaw that is attached with recommendation number two,

7:16:55you would see in it that the 2026 changes would come

7:17:01and in fact, July 1st doesn't leave us a lot of time

7:17:06between when it's approved and but we have been notifying

7:17:11our regular customers of this.

7:17:14We did give this presentation

7:17:18to the Home Builders Association as an example.

7:17:21So they're aware that there's a potential

7:17:24for the fees to be increasing.

7:17:27So.

7:17:29Perfect, I appreciate that.

7:17:31And as a follow-up in the presentation through you,

7:17:35I guess it's a separate question.

7:17:37Sorry, it's getting late.

7:17:39In the presentation when we saw the rates

7:17:41for the different municipalities,

7:17:43I noticed that Kitchener was significant to lower

7:17:45than what we are proposing for Guelph now and what we have.

7:17:49Can you help me understand why our fees

7:17:52are comparatively quite a bit higher

7:17:54than Kitchener-Waterloo?

7:17:56Yeah, I'll just start off and I think Jeremy

7:18:00can respond more thoroughly with that.

7:18:05A lot of the construction activity in Kitchener

7:18:10and Waterloo revolves around a lot of higher construction

7:18:15properties, higher multi-residential properties,

7:18:20that type of thing, but I'll let Jeremy.

7:18:25Yeah, thank you.

7:18:27Through you, Chair.

7:18:28So I did touch on it a little bit in the report on page four

7:18:33and there I just indicated that it was important

7:18:36to recognize Guelph's unique context

7:18:38when compared to other municipalities.

7:18:41Several of the comparators with lower permit fees

7:18:44have similarly sized building departments

7:18:46but are able to generate higher revenue per permit

7:18:50because they allow taller buildings in greater density

7:18:53as they are served with higher order transit

7:18:57resulting in larger floor areas

7:18:59and therefore higher building permit fees.

7:19:02Okay, so then by that logic,

7:19:05once the downtown, the new service is in place

7:19:08and we start seeing some of those 24-story buildings

7:19:11go up in downtown Guelph,

7:19:13then our fees would reflect that change

7:19:16that we're getting more density in the downtown

7:19:19and so the fees would go down,

7:19:21just trying to understand that for context.

7:19:23Sure, through you, Chair.

7:19:25So I would say our fee structure currently accounts

7:19:31for that and I guess,

7:19:35when you're comparing,

7:19:38it's a difference say between a 24-story building

7:19:42and a 40, 50, or 60-story building

7:19:45that's being built in some of these other municipalities.

7:19:49So, okay.

7:19:50Okay, that is very helpful.

7:19:51Thank you so much for your presentations.

7:19:53Thank you, Chair.

7:19:55Councillor Bousetel, please.

7:19:57Yes, thank you.

7:19:58This is a question for staff

7:20:00just so I have a better understanding

7:20:01of the building permit kind of basket.

7:20:04I understand the building permits fees cover

7:20:08building permit enforcement.

7:20:10So I build something, I've got a permit,

7:20:12someone's coming to check that I've done what I need to do.

7:20:17Does it also fund building investigations

7:20:20or is that somewhere else?

7:20:22This is the report a problem where,

7:20:24my neighbor's got an ADU that was built overnight

7:20:27or no permits kinds of,

7:20:30does it also have to cover those kinds of things?

7:20:35Through you, Chair.

7:20:36Yes, I would say it covers the entirety

7:20:39of the administration enforcement of the Building Code Act.

7:20:43So it would also include the enforcement piece

7:20:49for any of those investigations.

7:20:53Although that is some of the recommendations

7:20:55that BMA has made with regards to some

7:20:59of those additional fees for us to consider.

7:21:02So those are things that we're looking at considering.

7:21:07Thank you, I hear you, Madam Chair,

7:21:08may just supplemental.

7:21:10And so what I was leading to is penalty.

7:21:14So someone built an ADU overnight in their backyard

7:21:18and it's there or renovations to their basement.

7:21:20They're reported, is there a penalty amount

7:21:23and will that be increasing?

7:21:25And do they then fall into the building fees,

7:21:29the building permit fees to bring things through

7:21:31inspection and electrical and everything else?

7:21:36Through you, Chair.

7:21:38So there's a few mechanisms, I would say,

7:21:43you know, our first goal is always to work

7:21:46with the property owners to gain compliance

7:21:49where we don't typically go directly to enforcement

7:21:54that we always try to work with the property owners

7:22:00in that respect, where enforcement is needed.

7:22:07There is the ability currently in our current fees

7:22:10and that we're looking to continue

7:22:12where you're charged a surplus

7:22:15if the work had been completed without a permit

7:22:20and where we've had to take enforcement action

7:22:25and issue an order to comply.

7:22:27So if we've gone as far as needing to issue an order,

7:22:30then there is a surplus that's charged

7:22:35for the administration of that.

7:22:38So yes, I would say there is those mechanisms currently

7:22:42and there's some additional mechanisms as well

7:22:45that BMA has recommended in section five of their report

7:22:50that we're also considering in that respect.

7:22:53Thank you, just my final, Madam Chair.

7:22:54And the reason I raise that is exactly the ADUs

7:22:57where I hear from residents saying,

7:22:59I did the building permit, I followed all the rules

7:23:02and when it comes to impact time and reassessment,

7:23:04I'm gonna be up here and Kathy over here didn't do anything

7:23:08and she's got this ADU in her backyard

7:23:10and it's just not fair.

7:23:13So that's kind of the impetus.

7:23:15And I know Chris and I have talked about that

7:23:17and people who say it's not fair

7:23:20and I've gone through all the process

7:23:21and paid all the fees and things.

7:23:23And you've got the bad neighbor over here

7:23:25who hasn't done any bad.

7:23:27It was a treehouse, yeah.

7:23:30Sorry, through you, Chair.

7:23:32I would say that the people that have gone through

7:23:36the proper permitting process can rest assured

7:23:41that they know that that structure complies

7:23:44with the fire life and health safety requirements

7:23:47of the building code where potentially

7:23:50the other properties don't.

7:23:55And as we become aware of other properties

7:24:00through a number of means,

7:24:02we are definitely following up,

7:24:05especially with the ADUs where there is an increased

7:24:10risk to life in some of those facilities.

7:24:14And so we're definitely following up

7:24:17and even have a proactive program with regards to those.

7:24:20And so we acknowledge that those need to be addressed.

7:24:28And we do that as we become aware of it.

7:24:31Thank you for all your work.

7:24:35Thank you, Councillor Bustel.

7:24:37Mayor Guthrie, please.

7:24:39Thank you.

7:24:40Just quickly through you to staff,

7:24:41I'm just curious about why on motion number six,

7:24:45on recommendation number six,

7:24:47there's this takeaway moment for staff

7:24:51to consider the advantages and disadvantages

7:24:53of implementing some of the administrative fees

7:24:56that were stated in the presentation.

7:25:00And for approval as part of the 2027 budget.

7:25:06I mean, some of those ideas that were there

7:25:09seem to me pretty clear cut from the advantage side,

7:25:14not the disadvantage side.

7:25:16So if we're able to implement this new fee structure

7:25:22for July the 1st, why can't staff create

7:25:27the other administrative fees

7:25:31that other, like clearly other communities are using

7:25:35for their advantage,

7:25:37especially the incentive part which you said, sir,

7:25:39you know, like the second or third inspection

7:25:43because it's not getting done.

7:25:44Like we wanna get these things closed up and done.

7:25:49Why is this a takeaway for six, seven months?

7:25:56Through you, Chair.

7:25:57Thank you for the question.

7:25:58So I would say there's a number of municipalities

7:26:03that do take advantage of those additional fees.

7:26:09Sorry, there is, yeah, but not all, I would say, not all.

7:26:14And I would say we wanted to take a look

7:26:17at the best practices because not all

7:26:19of the municipalities are doing those things the same.

7:26:23And the other thing that I would say is that there's,

7:26:27a lot of those fees are to do with,

7:26:30for lack of a better phrase, correcting behavior

7:26:36and that it's not really a large revenue generator,

7:26:41I would say those additional fees

7:26:44wouldn't be a large revenue generator.

7:26:46It's more about correcting behavior.

7:26:49And so we wanted to have the opportunity

7:26:51to take that away, to review best practices

7:26:55with other municipalities.

7:26:57And also there could potentially be,

7:27:02administratively, it could be administratively burdensome

7:27:08to try to implement some of those things.

7:27:11And we just wanted to find that balance

7:27:13between how far do we use municipalities

7:27:19A's best practice or B's best practice

7:27:22and just trying to find that balance

7:27:24between not having it overly administratively burdensome

7:27:28for staff to implement while still correcting the behavior

7:27:32and generating some revenue from that.

7:27:37Okay, thank you, through you, Chair.

7:27:39I really appreciate that response.

7:27:42I mean, you've thought this through, obviously.

7:27:44So my follow-up and last question on it is,

7:27:47can you not do that work of reaching out

7:27:50and doing the balancing act of finding out

7:27:52whether it's worthwhile or not?

7:27:54And if you find out it is worthwhile,

7:27:58have it implemented sooner than the next year?

7:28:01I guess I'm just trying to, you see where I'm going, right?

7:28:04Like if there is a good idea, can we not implement it?

7:28:07Why do I have to wait seven months?

7:28:10Through you, Chair.

7:28:11Rest assured, I have already started those conversations

7:28:14with my counterparts in other municipalities.

7:28:18We've already started to gather that information.

7:28:22We felt that the best opportunity to do it would be

7:28:27as part of the 2027 budget, but yeah,

7:28:31I'm not opposed at all to bringing that back at a sooner date,

7:28:37but that seemed to be the best opportunity for us.

7:28:41We'll leave it as it is now.

7:28:42It's just good feedback.

7:28:44I think that's the best opportunity

7:28:45between now and the end of the month.

7:28:46If you feel maybe there's a change in the wording

7:28:48that gives delegated authority to implement the fee structure.

7:28:51If our chief building official and staff,

7:28:55Deputy CAO finds that there's legitimacy

7:28:58to move forward on something quicker,

7:29:00that council give you that cover to be able to do that

7:29:03and you could put in an information note to us

7:29:06that you've done it.

7:29:08I would just hate to see something that is worthwhile,

7:29:11that you know it's worthwhile August 1st,

7:29:14that you feel like your handcuffed to have to wait

7:29:16till January to try to implement it.

7:29:19Actually, technically, because it's an election year,

7:29:21it'd be like till February March because of being pushed

7:29:25forward, so I just don't want us to stick around,

7:29:28have to wait for a good idea to be implemented.

7:29:29So maybe we can talk between now and the end of the month

7:29:32about maybe different language for the last motion.

7:29:35Okay, thank you.

7:29:38Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

7:29:39Are there any other questions from my colleagues?

7:29:43No, I'm seeing none.

7:29:44I have one question and I'm sorry,

7:29:47I don't think I missed this in the report,

7:29:49but I was curious if it's too early to estimate

7:29:54the 2026 permit volume and its potential revenue impact?

7:30:02Through you, Chair, I guess to you.

7:30:05I would say it's still fairly early in the year

7:30:09to project where we're gonna end up with

7:30:14a permit volume.

7:30:15I would say today we're on track with regards

7:30:19to a volume of permit, the number of permits.

7:30:24With regards to revenue, I can say that

7:30:32that there is currently up until the end of May

7:30:38that we've issued permits worth $2 million

7:30:43so far this year up until the end of May.

7:30:46And so just to give you some context with regards to that,

7:30:52in 2024 and 2025, I think we were just around

7:30:572.45 million that we had issued.

7:31:01So I would say we're definitely on track

7:31:05with regards to meeting our budgeted revenue.

7:31:09Keep in mind that that budget includes a draw

7:31:13on the reserve and so I don't think we're gonna reach

7:31:16the point where there won't be a draw

7:31:19on the reserve this year, but I would say

7:31:24definitely more optimistic with regards to 2026

7:31:28as compared to 24 and 25.

7:31:32Thank you for that response.

7:31:35Okay, I'd like to move to comments

7:31:37and I'm gonna look around the room.

7:31:39We have to do 10 minutes.

7:31:42Oh yes, I didn't do the, I had a plan

7:31:44and I did not complete the plan, excuse me.

7:31:49We do need to put up a number for the public

7:31:53to be able to call in because this is a public meeting.

7:31:58So for those of you at home and for those of you

7:32:03watching this presentation, you can call us to delegate.

7:32:07You have, I think we have three minutes.

7:32:13We'll open up the line.

7:32:15The number for you to call is 519-837-5603

7:32:20and we hope that you call in to give us your feedback.

7:32:31Okay, while we've got the number up on the screen,

7:32:34I'm going to go to comments and I, no,

7:32:37I saw a hand go up and then a hand retract

7:32:40and I'm looking on this side of the room

7:32:42and I will just say that thank you everyone.

7:32:46I know that it's been a long day

7:32:48and this is our last item

7:32:50and I think it's really important that we're here

7:32:53and we're listening to it because,

7:32:56and maybe this is my comment.

7:32:57All right, here we go.

7:33:00So I think that we are facing,

7:33:03we've got in front of us a challenge

7:33:06that we are not, we haven't had the same volume

7:33:10of building permits or revenue coming in

7:33:12for the last few years and I appreciate

7:33:16that we've received this report as a shift

7:33:20in the revenue model because we can't continue

7:33:23doing things that the way that we have been.

7:33:25I really appreciate the comment around the reserves

7:33:29and building back the reserve

7:33:31because this is the situation that we're in

7:33:34where we need that reserve

7:33:35and so as we look forward to the future,

7:33:37I think what we'll certainly need to be considering that

7:33:39and I know that's something that we've discussed

7:33:42on a number of other items as well

7:33:45as building back our reserves.

7:33:48So with that, I'm going to ask our clerks

7:33:51if anybody has called in yet.

7:33:55Oh, I've got a point of order.

7:33:57Thank you very much, Chair Claus.

7:33:59And just a quick one.

7:34:00I just noticed that there's a couple of people

7:34:01that don't seem to be here.

7:34:03What does our vote count for approval or rejection now?

7:34:06There's 10 members of council present right now council.

7:34:10Thank you.

7:34:13Thank you, Councillor Allt.

7:34:15I have been keeping an eye on things with clerks.

7:34:20We have been having some side conversations

7:34:24throughout the whole meeting as people jump in

7:34:26and out of the conversation.

7:34:27So I really want to thank Dylan

7:34:29for keeping me sharp on that issue.

7:34:32We've been kind of getting little messages

7:34:34as a couple folks have shifted their presence,

7:34:40whether that be online or on the phone

7:34:42or offline completely.

7:34:44So appreciate you bringing our attention to that.

7:34:48Okay, I still don't think we have any call-ins

7:34:50and I think the three minutes have passed.

7:34:53So I would like to call the vote.

7:34:55We have five recommendations before us

7:34:58and if everyone is okay with it,

7:35:00I'm going to call them all in the same vote.

7:35:03Okay.

7:35:05Is anybody against the recommendations?

7:35:08Pardon me, I'm too classy.

7:35:11Oh yeah, oh excuse me.

7:35:13It's getting to the end of the night for the chair as well.

7:35:16So I appreciate everybody's patience with me.

7:35:18And Mayor Guthrie, Councillor Allt, moved and seconded.

7:35:25Thank you very much.

7:35:28I think that everybody who's available

7:35:30is on the screen and in person.

7:35:33So I think I won't be needing to verbally ask anybody to vote.

7:35:38Is anybody against the recommendations?

7:35:41Seeing none.

7:35:44That passes unanimously.

7:35:46Thank you very much for the presentation.

7:35:48Thank you for the long meeting everyone.

7:35:52And I do not have any service area chair updates.

7:35:56So I would like to ask someone to move adjournment.