Guelph City Council opposes the use of the Notwithstanding Clause as requested by a collection of Ontario Mayors…

59:49mayors. And we're not the only ones who are discussing this topic in the province. 79 city

59:55councillors have signed a letter opposing the use of this clause. The Mayor of St. Thomas has

59:59rescinded his endorsement of using the notwithstanding clause and there's also a letter from 450 lawmakers

1:00:05against the use of it. Recently even Branford and Aurelia voted to oppose it. If you have to use

1:00:11the notwithstanding clause to have legislation upheld then you are by default on the wrong side

1:00:16of our charter of rights and freedoms. We have these checks and balances in place for a reason

1:00:22so we don't descend into the depths of authoritarianism. We as a councillor are supposed

1:00:27to create policies through a lens of consideration that includes rights and freedoms. I'm a very proud

1:00:32Canadian and I have lived in other countries. Our values and rights set us apart. The notwithstanding

1:00:38clause has been framed as a process tool by the province but it's more on par with using a nuclear

1:00:43missile to dig a hole. If we vote to support a nuclear process response which disallows the courts

1:00:50to weigh in on the human rights and impacts of a bylaw of all things what does that say about our

1:00:55values? And this isn't about our public space use bylaw. This is about every municipality being

1:01:02above the law and our charter of rights and freedoms being cast aside and I hope that none of us

1:01:07truly want that. Similarly our Health Care Consent Act has thoughtful process in place

1:01:14that have been given consideration by the medical community and no one outside of a qualified medical

1:01:19professional should be making a determination that someone needs to be put under an involuntary hold.

1:01:25We know that involuntary treatment very often leads to drug poisoning upon release and death.

1:01:32This is not a policy that should be forced through the courts or even broached by politicians.

1:01:37Our focus should be on requesting proven supportive solutions and increasing OHIP coverage

1:01:44for voluntary mental health and substance use treatments. Thank you very much and we have

1:01:52delegations both in person and by video that might be joining us here today. Brad Ivois is

1:01:59up again starting us off on this topic. Welcome back Brad. Excuse me and then Amelia Meester

1:02:06is joining us again by video after you Brad. So go right ahead Brad whenever you're ready.

1:02:13Thank you very much. Put blunt bluntly folks I want to first you know thank

1:02:20Councillor Caton for this motion but put bluntly every use of the notwithstanding clause to override

1:02:27the charter rights and freedoms of the most marginalized people in our society is a direct

1:02:34and immediate threat against the well-being and safety of all of us and even though the

1:02:41newly proposed legislation has said that this will not be directly referenced it is still on

1:02:48the table and remains a live threat to all of us and in particular disabled people. We know

1:02:57that the vast majority of unhoused folks in this province are themselves disabled

1:03:03and are a part of our communities that have been failed by all levels of government

1:03:08in every municipality in every part of this province and by the federal government.

1:03:15Now just some quick statistics for you from the Canadian Human Rights Commission

1:03:19and the Office of the Federal Housing Advocate. People with disabilities are more likely to experience

1:03:26homelessness because of violence and abuse and that these figures were even higher for

1:03:31women with disabilities. 63% of women with disabilities who experienced homelessness in

1:03:37their life said it was because of violence compared to 54% of women without disabilities.

1:03:4453% of people with disabilities who experienced homelessness in their lifetime said it was because

1:03:50of violence compared to those without at about 36%. Ultimately we are more likely to be forced to

1:03:59move for economic reasons including financial hardship related to the COVID-19 pandemic and that

1:04:05ultimately financial hardship was the main reason that people with disabilities were forced into

1:04:12homelessness. These are the people that legislation from Doug Ford will be targeting. These are the

1:04:22people that the notwithstanding clause would be used against. Ultimately we know that the number

1:04:30of unhoused folks on OW and ODSP have doubled since the pandemic began and that many of our

1:04:37unhoused neighbors are kept from these services due to barriers arising from being unhoused.

1:04:44Ultimately in opposing the use of this constitutional sledgehammer you would also be

1:04:50increasing your own ability as a municipality to affect change and refusing to give over all

1:04:56authority to Doug Ford and becoming his rubber stamp. Ultimately this use of the notwithstanding

1:05:05clause as it becomes normalized threatens your ability to govern yourselves effectively as a

1:05:11municipality. Folks you know as we've seen with proposed legislation drafts that we've seen out

1:05:22there there are direct and immediate threats to municipalities that choose to continue to support

1:05:29encampments potentially and direct possibilities and impacts on your funding through the ministry

1:05:37of community and social services. I think we can say pretty clearly here that any use of the

1:05:45notwithstanding clause is not to further your ability to govern or further your ability to serve

1:05:55residents of Guelph but instead is intentionally designed to undermine you and to undermine the

1:06:04rights and safety of all citizens. So the question before you then to me is very simple. What do you

1:06:14value more? The rights of all Ontarians and Guelphites or the comfort of some business owners,

1:06:22homeowners and Nimbies when it comes to dealing with the problems that are on the table here.

1:06:29Councillor Canton's motion then turns back reactionary ideals that are counter to everything I hope we

1:06:36all stand for together. You know we hope that this council firmly embraces the safety and

1:06:44rights of all Ontarians. There can be no freedom for any disabled people in this province whether

1:06:53it's to be a vile body of legislation like this backed by the notwithstanding clause that threatens

1:06:59us and our communities. Thank you. Thank you, Brad. Is there any questions for Brad? Councillor

1:07:07Keaton has one. Go ahead. Thank you through you Mr. Mayor. I've heard from various members of the

1:07:13disability community that the intersections of the expansion of made and along with the possibility

1:07:21for involuntary treatment seems like a very dangerous landscape. Could you comment on that?

1:07:27Absolutely. Absolutely. You know I think that disabled folks in this province are being kind of

1:07:33pushed into a vice here. On one hand we have the threat of forced treatment which as I spoke about

1:07:41in my first delegation is very reminiscent to the broader regional center system, the asylum system

1:07:49and then on the other hand there is the threat of made which is deeply and fundamentally

1:07:57being incentivized for those who are on social assistance or should be and should be supported

1:08:04in this broader society. When we look at the rates here in Ontario for someone on Ontario works,

1:08:10if you are housed as a single person that's $733 a month, can you have a home in this city

1:08:21effectively at that cost? And the fact is you can't. And we know that Ontario works for many folks

1:08:30disabled in this province because of difficulties in getting access to ODSP is the holding area for

1:08:38folks with disabilities in this province that don't get through the bureaucracies of that system

1:08:44or are stuck in repeated excessive appeals or dealing with medical racism or facing other issues.

1:08:52So ultimately you know I think that the reality is that this legislation that is being proposed

1:08:58by Doug Ford, these realities are tightening the vice and at some point it's going to break.

1:09:09Thank you and thank you again for your presentation.

1:09:13Excuse me, Emilia Meister is going to join us again by video and is Sarah Bayless here?

1:09:22No, okay. Is Paige Hutchinson here? No. Is Kate Nixon here? Yes, I think, yes. Kate,

1:09:31you'll be in the wings after Emilia, okay. Emilia, thank you and welcome and go right ahead.

1:09:38Thank you so much, council. First I want to speak about the concerning degradation of democracy

1:09:44and democratic rights that I'm seeing in this council. First we had the use of strong mayor

1:09:50powers for the budget and now we are seeing the potential use of the notwithstanding clause

1:09:54against people living in encampments in our city. The notwithstanding clause is supposed to be used

1:09:59only in the most desperate of situations where no other options are available. I see its potential

1:10:05use around people living in encampments to be completely inappropriate and a concerning

1:10:09slippery slope for the loss of basic human rights for our citizens and Guelph. I see a vote against

1:10:15this motion as a vote against the humanity of not just the residents living in encampments but all

1:10:20residents of Guelph because if this council is willing to use it for encampments what other group

1:10:25will it attack next? Now I want you to come along on a little imagination journey with me.

1:10:32I want you to imagine for a moment that you got injured in a car crash. You get prescribed

1:10:39opioids because they are the only thing that helps with the pain. However after taking all your

1:10:44medical leave, all your sick days and unpaid leave and every benefit you can, you still can't return

1:10:49to work because the pain is so bad. You then go through all your savings to survive but still

1:10:54the pain is too bad to go back to work. You've been diagnosed with nerve damage and you're told

1:10:59that you'll likely live with this level of pain or higher for the rest of your life. Your doctor

1:11:05prescribes you a new experimental nerve medication that actually helps and you start looking for work

1:11:10again but it's $350 a month and not covered by OHIP. You use your credit card until it's

1:11:16maxed out. You can't go into any more debt because you're not working because finding a job is a lot

1:11:22harder when you have a three-year gap on your resume and you have a disability. Eventually you

1:11:28sell your house, pay off your debts and move into a rental. You live off the sale of your house for

1:11:32a couple years getting occasional part-time work. Eventually you're evicted because the landlord's

1:11:37son wants to move in even though you know he lives in Kingston. Since you last looked for housing,

1:11:42rent has drastically spiked. On top of that, the meds that have helped so much for the last couple

1:11:47of years have just stopped helping as much. You stopped being able to work again. You have little

1:11:53money and few options for pain so in a fit of desperation you try heroin and the pain goes

1:11:58away but you become addicted. You lose friends and the good will that allowed you to couch

1:12:03surf for the last year has dried up. You end up on the street. Shelters are often full and don't

1:12:09feel safe. You don't understand how five years ago you were a successful professional and now

1:12:14you're a heroin addict trying to find a shelter bed. You make friends though with some of the other

1:12:19folks in similar positions. You find community. You decide to pitch a tent in the encampment

1:12:24because it's close to your social worker and the safe supply site and your friends are all there.

1:12:30And you feel like you've been forgotten and abandoned by your politicians. You feel like maybe,

1:12:35just maybe, if you had homelessness, if people had homelessness shoved in their face every day,

1:12:41they might want to make a solution for it. Maybe they'd want to see you as human.

1:12:45This is the story of my friend Jeannie who I met when she was living in an encampment

1:12:50and who is tragically no longer with us. Her story is just one of many. Jeannie was doing

1:12:55everything right and through no fault of her own she ended up in an impossible position.

1:13:00But even if she wasn't doing everything right she would still be a person, a person with rights,

1:13:05family, friends, hopes and dreams, pains and sorrows, joys and gifts. When you consider using the

1:13:11notwithstanding clause to removing encampments, you're removing people like Jeannie's access

1:13:16to safety, access to services, community, friendship and care. You're removing visibility

1:13:22that forces us all to remember the humanity of those in need. People like my friend Jeannie

1:13:27don't just go away because you remove their human rights. It just makes their lives much worse and

1:13:33the ability to change their circumstances significantly harder. By removing their human rights,

1:13:38you're condemning them to an even harder life. You're condemning them to more suffering.

1:13:44Please remember that people living in encampments are people. Please remember that removing their

1:13:49human rights will not solve any problems and only make them worse. Please remember that our

1:13:55charter of rights and freedoms is in a very important legislation and following it makes

1:14:01us a more democratic, just and human society. Please vote for this motion. Thank you.

1:14:09Thank you, Amelia. Is there any follow-up question for this delegate? No, okay. Thank you again.

1:14:15And Kate Nixon is coming up and then Diana Chan McNally is going to join us on video after

1:14:23Kate Nixon. Welcome, Kate. I'll turn it over to you. Go right ahead. Thank you. Good morning,

1:14:28members of council, city staff and all who fill the gallery. I'll never forget the horror of turning

1:14:36over the cold lifeless body of an unconscious man facedown on a freezing night with no vital signs.

1:14:44We administered nasal naloxone and performed CPR,

1:14:48praying with every second that he'd come back, each minute stretched into what felt like decades

1:14:53as we fought to save his life. I'll always remember the pain and fear etched into the eyes of community

1:15:00member barely able to stand due to debilitating physical pain as police cuffed him and rummaged

1:15:08through his belongings. His belongings, the only things he had left taken in a so-called crackdown

1:15:14on drugs downtown. The sense of security he clung to already fragile was stolen as he cried.

1:15:22I'll forever carry the memory of a fellow peer, a youth lying on the cold cement in the square

1:15:27after a community vigil with no blankets or means to stay warm. And I can never forget the faces of

1:15:34those we've lost, far too many and far too young. Their favorite snacks, their favorite colors, their

1:15:40hopes and dreams, their unique presence all gone. These lives, these memories are a stark reminder

1:15:46of the cost of inaction and the devastation these policies bring upon our community.

1:15:52These are the realities we face, the consequences we live with when armed for policies take precedence

1:15:58over human lives. The notwithstanding clause was intended as an extraordinary measure for rare

1:16:04circumstances, not a tool to override the charter rights of society's most vulnerable. It's used

1:16:10to targeting campments with strip unhoused people of their rights to life, liberty and security

1:16:15of the person and the fundamental protections that should never be compromised.

1:16:20And campments are not a choice, they are a reflection of systemic failures. A lack of

1:16:26affordable housing, many in our community not having access to permanent safe shelter. Closures

1:16:32of safe injection sites without these life-saving services preventable preventable drug poisonings

1:16:37rise. Criminalization of poverty, policing unhoused individuals perpetuating cycles of trauma

1:16:44rather than offering solutions. Using the notwithstanding clause to displace encampments does

1:16:49nothing to address these root causes. It criminalizes survival, forces people into unsafe conditions

1:16:55and destroys the little stability they have left. The harm of criminalizing encampments is visible

1:17:00every day. People lose their belongings, their safety and too often their lives. When safe

1:17:06injection sites close and encampments are dismantled, our community becomes less safe, not more.

1:17:12The invocation of the notwithstanding clause would send a chilling message that human rights can

1:17:16be disregarded when some people deem lives as an inconvenience. It criminalizes survival,

1:17:22forcing people into unsafe hidden conditions where they are most likely to pass away from drug

1:17:27poisoning or other health crises. Suffer violence or die alone. This is not just a policy failure,

1:17:34it is a moral failure. Each life lost is a preventable tragedy and every displaced encampment is

1:17:43a testament to the systemic neglect of those who need support, not punishment. This clause would

1:17:49also set a dangerous precedent normalizing the use of extraordinary powers to bypass fundamental

1:17:54rights and undermines trust in our institutions and diverts resources away from real solutions.

1:18:00Instead of punitive measures, this council must focus on compassionate evidence-based approaches.

1:18:06Keep investing in affordable housing. Stable permanent housing is the foundation of addressing

1:18:10homelessness. Reinstate harm reduction services, both safe injection sites and harm reduction

1:18:15within housing. These save lives and connect people to support. Work with advocates, collaborate

1:18:21with those with lived experience and frontline workers and volunteers to create lasting solutions.

1:18:28The lives of those experiencing homelessness are not disposable. Invoking the notwithstanding

1:18:33clause is not only unnecessary but profoundly harmful. It criminalizes people for existing

1:18:39rather than addressing the systemic failures that put them in this position. I urge this council

1:18:44to reject the use of the notwithstanding clause. Instead, invest in policies that respect human

1:18:48rights, uphold dignity and create a more compassionate, safer, well for all. Thank you,

1:18:55Kate. Is there any follow-up for this delegation? Seeing none, thank you very much.

1:19:01And Diana is going to join us now by video, I believe. And then is Michelle Belek here?

1:19:09No? Can you see me? Hear me? Yes, hi Diana. It's Mayor Guthrie. We can see and hear you. So thank

1:19:17you very much for coming. And you have up to five minutes. So you'll just don't get to the five-minute

1:19:23mark so we don't cut you off, okay? So I'll turn it over to you. Go ahead. My name is Diana Chamick-Nally

1:19:29and I represent the SHIFT, which is a Canadian-based international housing rights organization led by

1:19:34the former UN Special Rapporteur on the right to housing. Our municipal encampment guidance,

1:19:39which has been adopted in Saskatoon and Halifax, is the only guidance currently endorsed by the

1:19:44Association of Municipalities of Ontario. And I am here today because of Councillor Kate and's

1:19:48motion in support of Charter Rights and Freedoms. Now, why is this motion necessary and why am I

1:19:54joining you from Toronto? Because your Mayor, Cam Guthrie, is among just 15 of 444 Ontario mayors

1:20:01who signed on to a letter requesting legislative changes that would impact all of Ontario.

1:20:06This legislation would create repercussions for communities across diverse geographies, populations,

1:20:12public service availability and resources. And their request was made seemingly with little thought

1:20:18as to the broad implications to the province. It was also made without engaging in local

1:20:24democratic processes. Your Mayor, among many others, did not engage with this council or with the

1:20:30public more broadly on this decision. And it isn't within legislated strong mayor powers for any Mayor

1:20:35to bypass council in making significant decisions. In this case of such significance that intended

1:20:42or not, the request would violate the rights of vulnerable people as protected under the Canadian

1:20:48Constitution. Now, as members of council, you should be consulted before such decisions are made.

1:20:54Your municipal logo ended up on a document that bypassed your authority. And that should concern

1:21:00you, regardless of whether or not you do agree or disagree with your Mayor. You are elected to

1:21:07represent your constituents and in the absence of your voice, let alone with no opportunity for

1:21:12public consultation, your constituents were not represented. So this is why it is so important

1:21:18that Councillor Kate's motion is on the agenda today because although the damage has been done,

1:21:23and we may see provincial encampment legislation tabled tomorrow, at least well fights have a

1:21:28chance to talk and you have a chance to listen. And I do hope that you listen deeply. Homelessness

1:21:34is a province-wide crisis and it has been greatly exacerbated by poor provincial policy,

1:21:40including the erosion of rent control, a failure to create and protect decent jobs,

1:21:45and a failure to address affordability. We also have a dearth of voluntary mental health and

1:21:51addiction support, declining investment in evidence-based harm reduction programs,

1:21:56and an inadequate income security system that has doubled, doubled the number of disabled

1:22:01people on the street in Ontario in the past year. Homelessness has had minimal provincial

1:22:07attention until now and we are all suffering through inadequate funding for shelters,

1:22:12transitional housing, funding that has long been based on historical funding levels and

1:22:17very outdated statistics, almost a decade old, not on actual population need. We all continue

1:22:24to suffer through the province's utter inability to build Ontarians the housing that they promised.

1:22:30In fact, our housing starts are the lowest that they've been since 1955. And so your city, my city,

1:22:38every municipality has been saddled with homelessness. We get no help from the province and you know

1:22:44this. So I actually really get where Mayor Guthrie is coming from, the frustration. You have been

1:22:50saddled with the burden of poor provincial policy, which has manifested as encampments. You have been

1:22:56forced to pay, including by raising taxes for addressing encampments while receiving the bulk

1:23:02of criticism for their existence. But your hands have been tied. And that's been completely unfair.

1:23:09But responding by infringing on people's charter rights won't solve the problem. It won't create

1:23:14the crisis services needed at the scale that they're needed. And just 19 heart hubs across Ontario

1:23:19certainly does not match the scale, let alone the gaps. It won't build enough safe, decent shelter

1:23:25for everybody who needs it. And it won't build the housing that is the ultimate solution to

1:23:30homelessness. These are things we should write to the Premier about. There is nowhere for people to go.

1:23:37Now, human rights are not contingent on your housing status. Everyone has human rights,

1:23:42or no one does. And the right to life is the basis for all other human rights we enjoy. It is the

1:23:49foundation, in fact. Now, I hope Guelph will join 450 lawyers, now 80 councillors, dozens of

1:23:57civil society organizations, and the municipalities of Smith Falls, Brant County, Hamilton,

1:24:03Aurelia, Toronto, and yes, St. Thomas, who changed their mind about the Notwithstanding

1:24:09Clause. In upholding the integrity of the Canadian Constitution, and by embracing the

1:24:15evidence-based solutions to homelessness, we know we'll work. Thank you, and please vote in support

1:24:21of this motion. Thank you, Diana. Thank you for your presentation. And is there any follow-up

1:24:28for the delegate at all? There is, but I just want to say one comment. We might be on opposite

1:24:36sides on some things, but I see a very large vinyl collection behind you. And I think that's an alien

1:24:41facehugger above your right. So we are probably more aligned on some things, but maybe not on

1:24:48others. But thank you very much for being here today. Appreciate it. Thank you. All right. Michelle

1:24:57Bellick here? No? Okay. And is Anna McGregor here? Yes. Great. And then Morgan Dandy just walked in

1:25:08the room. You're in the wings, Morgan. Welcome, Anna, and thank you for waiting and go right ahead.

1:25:19Good morning, everybody. My name is Anna McGregor. I live in Ward 1, the east end of Gwellf. I'm here

1:25:26as a senior director of community impact at the Canadian Alliance to End Homelessness with a

1:25:30national charity. And I'm also here as someone that has over 30 years experience in social services.

1:25:38I'm here to support Councillor Caton's motion to build on some of the comments that were already

1:25:43raised. While the most recent noise, news, information from the province has been a little

1:25:50softer on this issue, with an indication that the notwithstanding clause may not be proactively

1:25:56invoked, what sadly detailed was a plan that clearly does indicate a response to homelessness would be

1:26:03rooted in enforcement and criminalisation, not in housing. Housing ends homelessness. We must

1:26:13also remember that this response comes from a provincial government that does not necessarily

1:26:18hold all the experiences, skill or knowledge to offer such a solution for homelessness.

1:26:24Social community public housing, whatever you call it, was downloaded from the province in the year

1:26:292000. It went to 47 service managers across Ontario. Interestingly, many of them were not

1:26:39involved in these discussions. On this table today, there is another motion from the mayor,

1:26:46solve the crisis campaign. It too highlights this provincial gap. There is an ask there for a

1:26:52specific ministry to tackle the problem. So nobody believes that living in a park is an

1:26:58appropriate place to be. Sadly, with no other options and a worsening housing affordability

1:27:04crisis, that's where many people find themselves. But let's be clear, that result, encampments are

1:27:12a system problem and not a person problem. The plan outlined by the province will not

1:27:19reduce homelessness or encampments. Sadly, it will lead to more people in prison for the crime of

1:27:27not having a place to call home. More people will be dying from overdoses, hiding from criminalisation

1:27:35and hiding in alleyways. We will spread homelessness further into our communities.

1:27:42As a resident of Guelph, someone who has worked in this field and someone who works in a national

1:27:48charity dedicated to ending this, I am incredibly concerned for our neighbours. We need to do better.

1:27:59Now, I want to turn the tables. There is actually good news here. There is phenomenally hard,

1:28:05good work being done in Guelph. Guelph was recently recognised as having a 76% reduction in youth

1:28:13homelessness since 2018. Guelph Wellington have supported 1,655 people who were previously

1:28:23experiencing chronic, long-term, complex homelessness to move into housing. Being the champions to end

1:28:33homelessness and supporting action through your affordable housing strategy, working with your

1:28:40community partners and continuing to advance the permanent solutions to end homelessness

1:28:47rather than just manage it, are excellent steps to keep this work going. Housing is not a reward.

1:28:57Housing is a right. Guelph's focus on solutions with the delivery of new permanent supportive

1:29:04housing units and housing focused approaches have been the not-so-secret sauce and actually doing

1:29:11some really great work and must be central to the ongoing work to address homelessness.

1:29:18Last year, Guelph City Council unanimously voted in favour of the city adopting a human rights-based

1:29:26approach to housing, including a housing first philosophy, to align with the national housing

1:29:32strategy. So let's not forget that really good work. Let's not take a step backwards and react.

1:29:40Guelph has proof. Compassionate care and housing are the solution to housing that are most vulnerable.

1:29:47I ask you to support Councillor Caton's motion. Reject the tools, rooted in enforcement and

1:29:54criminalisation. Continue to lead in to housing and compassionate solutions, ramp up your outreach,

1:30:02support those experiencing homelessness and continue on the path for affordable housing.

1:30:08And you can do all of that without using the notwithstanding clause. Thank you.

1:30:16Thank you very much. Is there any follow-up at all for this delegation?

1:30:19Okay, no, thank you very much for your time. Morgan Danny is good to come right on up.

1:30:27Is Mars back in the room? Oh, you've moved. Yes, I see you. Okay, you're in the wings.

1:30:38Welcome and go right ahead, Morgan. Hi again, everybody. I'm here personally today. When I read

1:30:47that Mayor Guthrie had signed on to the letter to use the notwithstanding clause,

1:30:55I felt like it was one more nail in the coffin that I feel like I've been forced into

1:31:08since the dissolution of my marriage in 2019. As my friend Amelia was talking about her friend

1:31:18who was in a car accident, it really felt like I was hearing my story, except it was

1:31:26dissolution of marriage that sent me from a three-bedroom house to a wonderful basement apartment

1:31:35living off of the proceeds of the sale of that house for a year and a half.

1:31:42And then getting evicted because I developed a disability that made it impossible for me to be

1:31:49a reliable employee. If you needed me there at a specific day and time every single week,

1:31:58I couldn't, I still can't guarantee that. I don't know how many of us here were actually paying

1:32:09any attention while the Charter of Rights and Freedoms was being discussed by our federal government

1:32:18back in the late 70s, early 80s. I know some on council were even alive then.

1:32:26I've been a policy geek for a long time and because of the interest that my parents held

1:32:32in the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, I actually paid attention. I didn't remember a lot, so I went back

1:32:42and looked at why the notwithstanding clause was put in. And it was because

1:32:53the politicians at that time had an abject fear that the courts would misinterpret

1:33:05laws in ways unintended. I look at the notwithstanding clause as the last piece that allowed us to

1:33:19finally have almost all of the provinces sign on to a Charter of Rights and Freedoms.

1:33:26It was never intended to be used in a manner such as is being proposed by the Premier of Ontario

1:33:40and the signatories of the letter. I'm now living in a basement apartment again. I've got a room.

1:33:51I pay more than 75% of my income just for shelter as an individual on ODSP.

1:33:57I cannot go and stay in a shelter because of this little guy right here.

1:34:06Part of his job is to protect me in the current shelter system.

1:34:12Nobody would get rest if I went in there. He'd be barking all night long. Just the students upstairs

1:34:18last night were still moving around when I went to bed and he kept barking because

1:34:27he sees that as a potential threat and he's warning me. So when I saw this about the notwithstanding

1:34:36clause, I'm like, I have mental health issues. And one of the things that really scares me as a woman

1:34:43is a lot of the women that I see that are accessing services have acquired brain injuries.

1:34:52And anyone that has an acquired brain injury is incapable of correcting behaviors

1:35:00and forcing them into treatment isn't a solution. I just want everyone to please understand that

1:35:10I could be affected. You all know me. I'm a frequent flyer, as the mayor likes to say.

1:35:19And I can't countenance having this be part of our toolbox. Thank you.

1:35:31Okay, thank you. And is there any follow-up from Morgan? There is not. Thank you very much.

1:35:37And Mars? Mars, you're next. And then Andrea Baker is going to join us by video next.

1:35:57If Andrea is not available by video, is Jill Francis here?

1:36:02Nope. Okay, Mars, you might be wrapping it up for us. So go right ahead. Okay.

1:36:07Yeah, I was looking over the notes that I had made and what I had written down and honestly,

1:36:12most of it has been said and probably a lot more eloquently than I could have addressed it.

1:36:17And I just wanted to take my short time up here to thank the delegates who spoke up,

1:36:21especially those who shared personal stories and are showing why these conversations are so

1:36:25important. I want to thank those who brought these motions forward just to highlight how

1:36:28important they are. And I also want to recognize I've sat in this chamber multiple times and I've

1:36:34heard a lot of these topics get discussed over and over and over again. And I'm sure council

1:36:39can relate to that. And we know that a lot of these are relevant on a federal, provincial,

1:36:43and municipal level. And I think when you cover the same things and information gets repeated

1:36:48and things are said over and over, it can be really easy for things to get jumbled and to

1:36:53essentially not listen. And yeah, I think I just want to close off by saying that I really hope

1:36:57what's been said is being heard and being taken into account as we move through these decisions.

1:37:01And yeah, thank you, Councillor Alton. Councillor Cain, I support what you've brought

1:37:05forward. That's essentially it from me. Okay, no, no, thank you. Is there any follow-up? Nope.

1:37:11Okay, thank you very much. And the others aren't available. So I'll go back to you,

1:37:17Councillor Cain. If you want to table the three motions and just indicate the seconder,

1:37:25that would be great. Yes, the seconder is Councillor Allt. And the motions are that the

1:37:32Guelph City Council opposes the use of the notwithstanding clause as requested by a collection

1:37:37of Ontario mayors to circumvent the court's ability to rule on charter rights on the subject

1:37:41of encampment relocations due to the municipal bylaws throughout Ontario. Further, that council

1:37:47opposes the use of force in unvalentary treatment of people with substance use disorders or mental

1:37:52illness who are protected under disability legislation outside of the existing process.

1:37:57And three, that a letter be sent to the Association of Municipalities of Ontario,

1:38:02the Ontario Big City Mayors, and the 12 municipalities included in the 13 Mayor

1:38:07request letter for information regarding Guelph City Council's opposition.

1:38:13Thank you so much. Council, is there anybody that has any questions on this? Okay, I'll go to

1:38:21Richardson and then Ault. Thanks. I'm just wondering if someone could explain to me exactly what is

1:38:27meant by outside the existing process. Through the Mayor. So there's already an existing process

1:38:36for involuntary holds. And so that would include medical professionals who

1:38:44oversee and make sure that you are not a threat to yourself or others. And then there's a certain

1:38:51number of days and then check-ins. And other provinces like British Columbia have been trying

1:38:59to expand that so that it's not just medical professionals that can make those decisions

1:39:04and that it would be expanded past people who have mental health issues to substance use disorders

1:39:12and other neurological conditions. So right now I'm saying that the existing

1:39:20circumstances are sufficient. Sorry, I'm sorry. Through you, Mayor. So who would those people

1:39:26be outside of healthcare professionals? Do we know? We don't know. It's just kind of an open

1:39:32call right now. Thank you. Yeah, we can split them. Councillor Coller's asked for it to be split

1:39:40and then Ault and then Downer. Thank you. Mayor Guthrie, mine were comments. Do you want those

1:39:45now? Yeah, do go ahead. Sure. It's a bit of a history lesson, but I am very concerned for the

1:39:50arbitrary and the, I believe, the inappropriate use of the notwithstanding clause. In fact,

1:39:55I have real concerns with using it at all. I do believe that it's a simple approach to addressing

1:40:00underfunding. And what we've omitted is to understand what the original intent of the

1:40:05notwithstanding clause was, which was to bring Quebec into the charter and to assure that provinces

1:40:12could have a key role in language and cultural rights. And that's what was its intent. Pierre

1:40:18Trudeau did not foresee this. He did not like the notwithstanding clause, but it was something

1:40:25to throw to Quebec so that Canada could repatriate its constitution and in 1982 become a country

1:40:31for the very first time. By the way, Canada was not a country when Britain held the British

1:40:38North America Act. Guelph's Dick Chaliner was a person who helped frame the Charter of Rights

1:40:46and Freedoms. He's probably Guelph's greatest unsung resident, regrettably late. He did this with

1:40:55Roy Romano, Roy McMurtry and Pierre Trudeau. He certainly did not foresee this. Quebec, however,

1:41:02used this and is intending on using this again to ban public prayer. I'm not certain that we

1:41:08necessarily feel comfortable with that. Ontario clearly wishes to use it in the current circumstances.

1:41:14Alberta has used this to overrule federal energy targets and Saskatchewan, forgive me,

1:41:20I can't remember what they used it for. But in all cases, none of these was ever intended or ever

1:41:26foreseen. My problem with this is the Charter, using the notwithstanding clause, absolves the

1:41:33province of the duty to fund housing and mental health addiction support. The province can then say,

1:41:39well, we've just made it illegal. That doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me and it doesn't make a

1:41:45whole lot of sense as a city. We are only drawing 8% of the whole tax bill that people pay are

1:41:55responsible for housing, are responsible for welcoming streets, responsible for a myriad of

1:42:02issues associated with this, including a police budget that many people believe is overblown.

1:42:09We cannot let the province off the hook for underfunding by passing this. We as a city

1:42:14owe it to our taxpayers to make certain that we see the province funds these services appropriately

1:42:22and does not get away with saying we're just going to make some people illegal.

1:42:30Okay, thank you. Donner? Yes, can we have these separated out?

1:42:37Because I, oh, sorry. So the first one I do support. I want to make it clear that I still

1:42:44support and stand by the use of public spaces by-law that the city has passed. I think that was,

1:42:51municipalities need to have a right to do that outside of encampments anyway, the use of public

1:42:57space. However, number two around involuntary treatment. And I'm a layperson and so I just

1:43:08don't think I know enough. So, you know, even as a layperson looking at some studies and again,

1:43:13I don't know how to really read these studies, but it seems like there are some positive outcomes

1:43:19through the criminal court case. I did read the stat about some people overdose when they come

1:43:24out of treatment. That also happens when they come out of voluntary treatment. So I, you know,

1:43:29and even in that study, it said, however, there are still some positive outcomes. So

1:43:35I don't know enough to assess that. You can be right and I respect you,

1:43:43Councillor Caiten, but I'm not an expert and I don't know that anybody around this horse shoe

1:43:49is either. So, point of order. I recognize your point of order. Through the Mayor, this is not

1:43:57about specifically about involuntary treatment. It's about the use of the notwithstanding clause.

1:44:01No, no. Number two. Number two, literally your motion that you wrote literally says the force

1:44:06involuntary treatment and that's what she's talking about. So I don't recognize you any further and

1:44:13I'm going to go back to Councillor Downer. I support number one. So I just don't support number two

1:44:18for the reasons I have basically stated. I don't know enough and we didn't have any medical experts

1:44:25coming to speak to this either today. So that are in the community. They're not out there, not here

1:44:31opposing, suggesting that motion either. So I, right now, I mean down the road, I might change

1:44:39that if I could be convinced, but right now I'm not. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. And so I'll go to

1:44:46Koran and then O'Rourke.

1:44:50He's supporting all three motions. When it comes to addiction, we often think of drug poisoning

1:44:56because so many of our citizens experiencing homelessness are, we've put that forward as

1:45:03being one of the primary reasons, but alcohol has been mentioned in our delegations alluded to that

1:45:09as well. So involuntary treatment for alcoholism, I can't imagine that that is something even tenable

1:45:20in a province that does not have the facilities, the healthcare facilities,

1:45:25addiction treatment centers to accommodate the scale of what that could mean. So I'll absolutely be

1:45:32supporting Clause 2. I think in terms of my commentary, I have to say that I was really,

1:45:39Diane Echan McNally's delegation really struck me because I recall those feelings of shock and

1:45:47disappointment when I heard that the mayor had signed the letter on behalf of the city of Guelph

1:45:53using the city of Guelph logo and knowing that the mayor is the head of council and from a governance

1:45:59perspective that really deeply disturbed me. Although the mayor and I respect that you put

1:46:06that forward for your own reasons and we don't have a motion here before us today where we can

1:46:17direct you to take action that you took as an individual, but I would encourage you and I'm

1:46:26not placing a motion on the floor as I said it's a governance issue, but I encourage you as other

1:46:30mayors have done to withdraw your support for use of the notwithstanding clause. So I urge you to do

1:46:38that after if these motions all pass and you have direction from council that we as a council are not

1:46:45in favor of the notwithstanding clause that as head of council that you will withdraw your support

1:46:51from the letter. Thanks. Thank you. I'll go to a roar can then it looks like I have an amendment

1:47:00from Kate and so a roar. Thank you Mayor Guthrie. So to clause one I will absolutely support

1:47:07because undermining in the Canadian constitution is absolutely not the answer. I think that moving

1:47:14people around from city to city or place to place is a waste of resources. It's harmful for

1:47:21the people involved and it's actually not the solution. We know the solution we talked about

1:47:25it last night at length. The solution is more housing and more social supports. So I think the

1:47:31province's focus is misplaced in terms of pursuing this as an avenue, especially when we know that

1:47:38since 2018 Ontario's ramped its spending up on homelessness about 80% but lowered what it spends

1:47:45on community housing by 70%. So the answer again as we talked about last night is housing and

1:47:51supports. So I support clause one, clause two much like councillor Downer. I'm not a medical

1:47:58ethicist. I'm not an expert in this field and I know people who have or would benefit from

1:48:10treatment and who are in a position to make those decisions themselves. Councillor Chew and I have

1:48:17a constituent who is regularly contacting us with issues about somebody they care about a lot

1:48:21who's just in and out of the system and who may benefit from additional intervention.

1:48:27And I heard the mayor of Vancouver talk recently about if we had people with dementia who were

1:48:34out exposed in the cold wouldn't society expect us to take care of them. So there isn't always

1:48:41a loved one to take somebody to care or treatment or for those 48-hour holds. Those holds aren't

1:48:48always sufficient and it is with full compassion because I have a very close friend who's been

1:48:54in this situation. There's lots of people in my life who've been involved or adjacent. And so

1:49:00you know tomorrow night the Homewood Research Institute has a webinar on involuntary treatment.

1:49:07So we don't have a mechanism at council to abstain. I'd like to abstain from this motion

1:49:11because I'm as councillor Downer said I'm a layperson and I do not understand what all

1:49:17the implications are. I'm not a lawyer, I'm not a doctor, I'm not an ethicist.

1:49:23And so around this table, abstaining is the same as a vote against but I am

1:49:31abstaining because I'm not in a position to make a decision on that and I'll support Clause 3.

1:49:38Okay thank you. So we have an amendment that's potentially going to be tabled by Councillor

1:49:42Caten that she's wanting to bring forward. So I had a question for the clerks if I may.

1:49:47So is it better for me to move an amendment against number two or for me to withdraw my motion and

1:49:54then retable it with the, oh yeah, so is it easier to do the amendment? Through you Mr. Mayor we do

1:50:05with the motions on the floor so if you're looking to make a change to one of those clauses the

1:50:08amendment would be the appropriate way to do it. Okay so then I would like to make an amendment

1:50:12as per the email that I sent because my intent was, and it's just a matter of the language

1:50:19and the structure that I did in the motion, was that further council opposes the use of the

1:50:26notwithstanding clause in the use of force in voluntary treatment. So before we talk any further

1:50:36I sent it. We would need a seconder but through you Mr. Mayor to Councillor Caton if you could

1:50:46just confirm that I've added that in the right section of the of the clause. In the use of force.

1:51:06Okay we don't have a seconder for that so okay, Councillor Aul will second it.

1:51:15Okay and so now we have questions on this amendment only so Councillor Downer.

1:51:21So I know with the first one that there was a threat by the provincial government

1:51:27or the, sorry, the letter to the mayors and then the

1:51:32premier's been talking about the notwithstanding clause around the relocations of encampments but

1:51:37I haven't heard, I haven't heard anybody discuss publicly about the notwithstanding clause for

1:51:47mandatory treatment. Is that anywhere on anybody's agenda has been talked about?

1:51:55I haven't seen that. I would need to really reread the letters that were sent to the mayors that

1:52:07requested the use of the notwithstanding clause but I believe it was reference that

1:52:12they could use that in the the medical treatments in that letter. I'm trying to find it right now.

1:53:02So the letters, okay so I can withdraw motion on the clause number two for the time being until I

1:53:10find that and I can bring it back to council at a later date. Well I would rather it just be

1:53:20dealt with now. Like we're well if people are confused and we need to have more information

1:53:25than I'd rather withdraw it right now so that we don't make it decision without the full information

1:53:32on clause number two. Yep are you okay for removing that then and then council who seconded

1:53:43yeah just clause number two yeah okay so clause number two removed does anyone object to that?

1:53:51I have to ask through the process. Okay so just one second I'll go to the clerks.

1:53:56Through you Mr. Mayor just to clarify what we'll actually be doing is withdrawing first the amendment

1:54:01which is currently on the floor and then withdrawing just clause two and retabling that motion.

1:54:06That's right because technically your amendment was on the floor so what we just did and what I

1:54:12did the rounds of questioning on was just to remove the amendment. Now I'm going to do my

1:54:17process again you're okay to remove number two completely and you're okay to remove the seconder

1:54:22and is anyone against that? Okay no so now number two has formally been removed okay okay

1:54:32I don't have anything more oh boost it up go ahead. Thank you and I will be supporting

1:54:39one and three. As a new councillor you know my frustration and my desperation

1:54:47knowing full well from all the research and what community agencies tell us the solution is permanent

1:54:52housing capital and sustained operating funding for public supportive and transitional housing.

1:54:59I think it was Brad that was talking about the vice and I was saying yes I feel like I'm in a vice

1:55:04here that we have the community encampments the issues and homelessness but not the tools to address

1:55:10this and you know one of the other delegations I don't believe that the notwithstanding clause

1:55:17is a tool and one of the delegations clearly said I think it was Diana that everyone has human rights

1:55:24or no one does and I think that that to me really whose rights rises on top of whose and I think that

1:55:33that is the level playing field that is what the constitution is about that is what this is about so

1:55:38I will be supporting both of these motions but also recognizing that we're all extremely frustrated

1:55:44with all levels of government including the federal government and the lack of response

1:55:49to the housing crisis in in a very concrete way which is permanent public you know supportive

1:55:56and transitional housing that is what we need thank you great thank you all right to want to wrap it

1:56:05up as the mover go ahead Keaton thank you through you mr mayor I think that the call out from

1:56:14premier Ford was bait it was bait because the policies that the province has been making and

1:56:23the underfunding of our social services which we have been taking up on our property taxes

1:56:30is the cause for this crisis worsening and the use of the notwithstanding clause gives them the ability

1:56:39to not solve the crisis which is something that we'll be talking about shortly and I think that

1:56:46we should be defending our charter of rights and freedoms and not giving them the free pass

1:56:54we really need to be standing up for people and the solutions that we know are proven

1:57:00so I hope you'll all agree with me on that thank you thank you so I'll look to call the vote now we

1:57:08have only a number one and number two we're going to call it okay and I think I was still asked to

1:57:14have it separated so we'll we'll we'll do that we'll just keep it separated before the vote is taken

1:57:22though I have no problem giving my comments on this I love this moment because it is freedom of

1:57:29speech is also important differences of opinions is also important and so this is where I stand on

1:57:36this issue I believe that if an encampment takes over a playground and we can't move it

1:57:46that we should be able to move it I believe if an encampment takes over a splash pad or takes over

1:57:53St. George's Square and starts to impede on the well-being and the public space and order

1:58:01that should be safe and welcoming for everybody I believe we should be able to remove it

1:58:08and that's why I do support if necessary that's what the letter did say that's word for word if

1:58:17necessary the use of the notwithstanding cause because I believe that our public space should be

1:58:28free of some of the issues that come with some some and a minor encampment issues that are

1:58:41very very problematic for the public and I would argue the very people that are there

1:58:47and and so that's my position and of course of course as the head of council I would respect

1:58:56the decision of council of course but I will always maintain that I have my personal opinion

1:59:03my voting record today will obviously show that and I will never ever back away from trying to

1:59:09keep our community spaces safe for everybody and and to try to bring some public order as I would

1:59:18define it back to this situation that we are all frustrated on which we can all agree on on that

1:59:26finally there's been some commentary that what you know what the province is looking to table

1:59:33is not going to work well we don't even know like I don't even know we don't even know what the

1:59:40legislation is maybe it won't work I don't know but we don't know until tomorrow till we actually

1:59:46see the legislation so I'm also thankful that the premier in the province seems to have walked back

1:59:53the preemptive use of the notwithstanding clause that I'm in favor of 100 I'm in favor of

2:00:01but if it gets to a point where we have encampments that are taking over playgrounds and splash pads

2:00:09and even with our bylaw that we did pass here we try our best to work with those people to say

2:00:16you can't be here but you can be you can be over here you can be right over there but we

2:00:23but you can't be here and those people say no I'm staying and it goes to a court challenge

2:00:32I am very thankful that the province has indicated that they would be with us as an

2:00:36intervener status on that to try to uphold the democratically voted on bylaw that this council

2:00:4310 to 3 voted on and I'm very I'm very passionate about this because I'm passionate in both ways

2:00:53and I I want to help the people that are in these circumstances but I also want to be

2:00:59having our public spaces safe for everyone and and so that's where I stand on this and and so

2:01:09that's you know this is this is moment for us to express ourselves and and so I thank council

2:01:15for allowing me to to do that now obviously I have a difference of opinion on this particular

2:01:19matter but that's okay that's okay that's why we're we all have different thoughts and opinions on

2:01:25things and so I'm looking forward to hearing what the premier and and the province does tomorrow

2:01:31I'm very much looking forward to hearing from it and I hope it will be great and guess what I'm

2:01:37I'm the type of person you guys can't slam me for this I will critique where critique is warranted

2:01:43I have done that over and over again but I will praise when praise is warranted for upper levels

2:01:48of government legislation too tomorrow will be an opportunity for me to consider of critique

2:01:53or praise we'll see we'll see but I think even the fact that it has been a frustrating

2:02:00issue for us all to deal with and it's bubbled to this point I believe that has moved the dial

2:02:08I believe the the the letter from myself and others actually has moved the dial and I would argue

2:02:15and I can only cross my fingers because I don't know that if there is praise warranted tomorrow in

2:02:21the legislation that comes forward from the province then I would thank myself and the other

2:02:26mayors that actually stood up and said we have to have this problem solved so we'll see what happens

2:02:31we'll see what happens so thank you that thank you for the me give my my opinions on that before

2:02:37the vote so we'll just vote on number one and so all those against on number one please raise your hand

2:02:46all right so it's billings and Richardson and myself Guthrie so that passes and then I'll call

2:02:54the vote now on only a number pardon me mr. Marin sorry for the interruption I just want to ask

2:02:59councillor Roark because she had indicated she wanted to abstain from voting only on number two

2:03:04well the original number two which is now gone okay yeah so that's a vote and that's the way I took

2:03:09it am I right councillor or that's correct so her vote on the first one was in favor okay and then

2:03:16now on the second one which is just to send the letters all those against raise your hand okay and

2:03:27that's unanimous that's fine okay all right now we're going to move on to the final one and there's

2:03:34only one delegation in regards to this third time's a charm Brad come on up this is in regards to the