In alignment with the County’s Health and Housing symposium…

7:22presentation from our staff on the proposed public space use bylaw and so

7:29I'll ask Colleen Clackbush our Deputy CAO of Public Services to walk through

7:37the presentation and just so everyone knows the flow a little bit for today

7:42we're going to do the presentation and then I think it's very important that we

7:50as a council ask questions of the information that either is presented or

7:57has been included in our package for us because I think the presentation and

8:03the framing and answers of questions and answers from us will help set the

8:08foundation of what we really are looking at today and it sets some context I

8:15think as we move forward as well so to that please get ready for the

8:22presentation and then questions from us Colleen it's over to you thank you.

8:27Thank you and good morning everyone thank you to members of council and for

8:33the public for being here today to consider this important bylaw as the

8:37mayor said my name is Colleen Clackbush and I'm the Deputy CAO of Public

8:41Services this bylaw is before you today following direction that you as council

8:47gave to us on January the 16th which was to bring a draft bylaw back for

8:52consideration before the end of February because we wanted to make sure that this

8:58draft bylaw was released on the regular agenda on February the 1st that meant

9:02that staff had 11 days to consider and develop the bylaw and to get it drafted

9:07and released so as a result I just wanted to make note of the fact that we were

9:12not able to follow our normal community engagement processes and so all public

9:17consultation on this bylaw is being done through today's meeting which is why we're

9:21so pleased to see such a large and varied response both in the correspondence and

9:25here in chambers today however we do want to acknowledge that we typically would

9:30have further consultation we have a number of partners the Chamber of Commerce

9:35the Downtown Guelph Business Association impacted residents those with lived and

9:41living experience with homelessness indigenous peoples in our community and

9:45numerous social service agencies working in the areas of homelessness and

9:49related health issues who are just some of the various stakeholders who we just

9:53simply didn't have the time to consult prior to the drafting of this bylaw so

9:57we're pleased that they engaged through this council process today the bylaw was

10:02discussed and reviewed internally by several department representatives legal

10:06services operations finance economic development and tourism parks strategic

10:12initiatives and intergovernmental services and fire services so in terms of the

10:20goals of this bylaw staff aimed to balance a number of competing needs we

10:25wanted to make sure that we looked for ways to make our city-owned spaces available

10:29for everyone and ensure that designated spaces are being used for their intended

10:33purposes and we also looked to make sure that sensitive areas like source water

10:37locations are protected but we also needed to make sure that this bylaw was

10:43permissive and we made it very and made it very clear where unsheltered

10:47individuals in our community could live safely and with the knowledge that no

10:52one could ask them to move along while our end goal is always to see everyone in

10:58our community have a safe permanent and accessible place to live as long as some

11:03people in our community are still struggling with housing instability we

11:07wanted to make sure that we made it clear that there are numerous locations

11:11throughout the city that are safe and permissible for temporary sheltering

11:17because of the short timeline of developing the bylaw we did want to

11:21note that we did not have the opportunity to consult with other public landowners

11:25in the city like the county of Wellington the school boards the

11:29University of Guelph or the province the potential needs of these landowners

11:34might also need to be considered at a future date but for the purposes of

11:38today's deliberations of this bylaw the timeline simply didn't allow enough time

11:43to consider how they might be included so this bylaw before you today

11:47applies solely to the land that is owned or operated by the city of Guelph it

11:51does not apply community-wide a significant factor when developing this

12:00bylaw was reviewing the legal precedence and relevant rulings in other

12:03communities our legal counsel is with us this morning and they were a key part

12:08of developing the bylaw as they incorporated the guidance provided by

12:12the courts in the available legal decisions on this issue so mr. Matthew

12:16Irish our associate solicitor and Ms. Jennifer Charles are acting city solicitor

12:21are both here today to provide support to staff as we try to answer your questions

12:26well we haven't heard questions in advance from members of council that would

12:30necessitate us going into closed session mr. Irish and Ms. Charles are

12:34available should that need arise for council to seek guidance for them directly

12:38in closed session as part of the legal review three jurisdictions were

12:44considered the first is the region of Waterloo the Waterloo code of use

12:49bylaw prohibited the erecting of any tent or temporary structure on lands owned

12:53or operated by the region however justice valente ruled that the bylaw was

12:58inoperative when the number of homeless individuals in the region exceeds the

13:02number of accessible shelter beds and so for this reason recommendation number

13:07two that is before you today calls on our partners at the county of Wellington

13:11to continue demonstrating how they as our housing services provider are moving

13:16towards meeting the goal of permanent accessible shelter for everyone on our

13:21local by name list the second was the city of Kingston their parks bylaw

13:27prohibits camping or using camping equipment in all city parks in this

13:31case the court decision altered that bylaw to permit camping overnight

13:37however the courts did uphold the daytime prohibition for camping for this

13:43reason we have proposed bylaw that permits temporary shelters in many

13:48locations in our parks at all times while limiting camping in certain locations

13:53to overnight only we should note that this Kingston bylaw is currently being

13:57appealed and it's expected that the appellate court will hear the appeal in

14:01the next six to eight months and lastly we consider the protocol in the city of

14:05Hamilton while not a bylaw this protocol was used as a consideration for many of

14:10the details within the proposed bylaw the Hamilton protocol says that tents are

14:15limited to five per cluster with a minimum of 50 meter separation between

14:19those clusters and it prohibits prohibits encampments in areas like

14:23cemeteries community gardens sidewalks or pathways it also prohibits

14:28encampments from within certain set distances of schools playgrounds sports

14:33fields and waterways and to our awareness the Hamilton protocol has not been

14:37legally challenged so I'd now like to ask Anthony Dolcetti our housing services

14:42advisor to speak to the next few slides following which Doug Godfrey our

14:47general manager of operations will speak to some of the specifics of the bylaw

14:51details. Good morning everyone. So first slide the role of the county of

15:04Wellington so we know that emergency shelters are an important part of our

15:07homelessness system providing necessary crisis response and housing supports to

15:11adults youth and families experience or an experiencing or at risk of homelessness

15:16the county of Wellington as a service manager for housing and homelessness

15:19focuses primarily on the portion of the housing continuum related to emergency

15:23shelters outreach services all the way to government funded affordable

15:27renting housing otherwise known as the left hand of the housing continuum

15:31the county and community partner partners using no wrong door approach through

15:35a coordinated entry system which ensures individuals requiring emergency shelter

15:39are available to access services based on unique needs as of June 2023 there were

15:4479 emergency shelter beds available for youth adults and families with motels

15:49being used for overflow to accommodate specific needs and most specifically

15:53throughout the winter months recent data collected from January to June of

15:572023 shows that there's been a significant increase to emergency shelter usage

16:01with an average of 105 individuals accessing emergency shelters nightly

16:06which is up from 52 individuals in 2019 this is an approximate

16:11increase of 102% the average length of stay has also increased by 120%

16:17since 2018 from 25 days up to 55 days so the city of Guelph county Wellington

16:27and community partners are committed to a human rights and housing first approach

16:30when working with encampment residents this approach will ensure that individuals

16:35and families experiencing homelessness and housing and security will be connected

16:38to appropriate resources and services to ensure that unique needs of all

16:42individuals and families are being met without housing first this approach

16:46becomes much harder housing is a human right without it we'll being able to work

16:50with individuals on specific needs to ensure that housing stability is achieved

16:54can certainly be challenging this approach is consistent with the national

17:00protocol for homeless encampments as developed by the UN in 2020 and the

17:04eight key principles in which the response is built upon which includes but is

17:08not limited to recognizing residents as right holders meaningful engagement

17:12and ensuring relocation is a human right is human rights compliant

17:17at this time the city and its partners are working on an improved reporting

17:20and tracking system to ensure that all locations where individuals may be

17:23sleeping rough or unhoused are being accounted for this approach will ensure

17:27that all individuals are being connected to outreach and additional supports

17:31should they require or want the city will continue to advocate through various

17:37channels like AMO and the province of Ontario on the need for affordable housing

17:41in order to develop more permanent solutions for a true housing first

17:45approach to be successful so current response the city of

17:52golf and community partners are working to revamp and revise the current response

17:55on sheltered homelessness the response will maintain a coordinated approach with

17:59outreach supports and bylaw working in tandem with the county community partners

18:02and land ambulance as mentioned in the previous slide having the ability to track

18:07specific locations and individuals will ensure that a tiered approach can be taken

18:11when visiting sites given the current challenges being faced during the winter

18:15months counts allocated an additional $100,000 towards the response in addition

18:20to the contribution from the county as a service manager for homeless serving

18:24services this investment will increase the outreach staffing complement which

18:28will allow outreach efforts to encampments to continue into the evenings and weekends

18:32and tandem with bylaw if necessary in addition outreach staff will use a

18:37significant portion of the funds to provide health and safety supplies for residents

18:41of encampments that may include blankets water first aid supplies smoke detectors

18:45fire extinguishers hygiene products food or grocery carts

18:51DCO Clack Bush indicated the proposed bylaw sets out regulations as to where temporary

19:06shelters may be erected the 24-hour permissible location would be an area of

19:12a public land that does not have a competing public use such as a square

19:16and is not a bookable space such as a pavilion or baseball diamond and the

19:21location is not sensitive such as an area protected by source water protection

19:26while specifically not identified in the bylaw as there are too many to list an

19:34example of a 24-hour permissible location would be the open space of a park or a

19:39vacant city land in these areas while the proposed bylaw sets out general

19:45requirements as to maintain the site and not to damage property a structure as

19:50identified in the bylaw as being a temporary structure or shelter would be

19:55permitted to be erected 24 hours a day seven days a week the proposed bylaw

20:01would also prohibit anyone that is unauthorized from removing shelters or

20:06items and should a person do so there's the ability to issue a charge to balance

20:11the needs of all residents for locations that have a competing use during the

20:22day or a bookable space such as a square or the baseball diamond or which is

20:28designated for other purposes such as a sports field that may be programmed

20:32temporary shelters are permitted overnight but must be removed one hour

20:37before sunrise it is important to note while the proposed bylaw would

20:42require the temporary structure temporary shelters to be removed from these

20:46locations during the day if the area is not booked individuals may choose to

20:51still use the area it also should be noted that with any bylaw staff do have

20:56the option to use discretion for example discretion could be used in such

21:01situations as cold weather alerts and these situations staff could permit

21:06the temporary shelters to remain during the day for locations that are

21:14designated or sensitive temporary structures and shelters are not

21:18permitted at any time a designated area may be an area constructed or

21:22utilized for a special purpose or maybe environmentally sensitive examples

21:27include land abutting a pond or a railway a designated area will also

21:34include land that is source water protected in this case these areas have

21:39been mapped out in the proposed bylaw with respect to sensitive areas the

21:44proposed bylaw identifies these locations as intended for sensitive public

21:48recreational or personal use including areas used by children pets and the

21:53mobility of the public these areas may also have a heightened safety

21:58requirement or a heightened expectation of quiet use examples include

22:03a playground a splash pad dog parks sidewalk or a municipal cemetery the

22:09proposed bylaw also provides council the option to identify other sensitive

22:14areas by adding them to schedule a and with that I'll turn it back over to

22:20DCAO.

22:21So thank you to both Anthony and Doug so one of the many questions we've been

22:35asked about this bylaw is the effective date which currently has been set at

22:40March the 1st however we want to make note of the fact that the intention would

22:44be only to enforce where there is a very immediate safety concern for example

22:48related to propane tanks beyond that the intention would be to work with our

22:53partners at the county of Wellington stepping stone and other social service

22:57agencies to work with individuals about where the approved and safe places are

23:02in our city for sheltering intense ideally we of course would want to see

23:08everyone in permanent accessible shelter but if sheltering in a tent remains a

23:13necessary option for some in our community we want to work with them to

23:17help people find safe and permissible locations and as Doug mentioned moving

23:22forward our bylaw staff will also have discretion when considering enforcement

23:26during extraordinary circumstances like extreme cold weather events so the

23:33recommendations that are before you are listed on the screen so the first is at

23:37the bylaw as presented be brought forward for final adoption at the February 27th

23:41council meeting should council wish to make any amendments to the bylaw today

23:46in order to have those be also brought back on February 27th you'll need to

23:51vote on all of those amendments this evening so that we have clear direction

23:55on how we are revising the bylaw before we bring it back on February 27th.

24:01The second recommendation calls on the county of Wellington to provide us data

24:05and statistics on the progress that they are making to provide all those on the

24:10by name list with accessible permanent shelter and the last recommendation

24:14seeks to continue the support of our advocacy efforts with the Association of

24:19Municipalities of Ontario and with the provincial government to address the

24:23urgent needs being faced by municipalities as we struggle to deal with the crises

24:27in our communities related to housing instability. Before we move on to questions

24:34and maybe to help answer some of the sort of inquiries that we've had and

24:39going off of my notes now I want to tell this the a tale of two moms because I

24:45think it helps to best articulate what we're trying to accomplish with this

24:49bylaw and what we're trying to balance and then after that we'll pause and take

24:53any questions that you may have. So the tale of two moms is based on situations

24:58that happened last year just only slightly tweaked to make sure that I'm

25:01protecting those involved. So mom number one volunteers in her child's kindergarten

25:06class and they planned a year-end trip to one of our parks. Kids have been

25:10looking forward to it for weeks. She'd worked with the teacher to make sure that

25:15they had a safe way volunteers to walk to the park. The kids were packing their

25:19lunches. They picked a park that had great playground facilities because that

25:23was going to be their year-end celebration. She contacted the city and she

25:27booked a pavilion because if it rained they wanted to make sure that that class

25:31had shelter. When they get to the park they encountered somebody who had been

25:36seeking shelter in the pavilion and we completely understand why it's a great

25:40location to seek shelter out of the rain but that mom and that teacher had that

25:45pavilion booked and without this bylaw we don't have the tools that we need to

25:51require that individual to move along so that that mom and that teacher can access

25:55that pavilion for the booking that they made for their class's year-end celebration.

26:00Colin before I go to the next story of the other mom I'm going to ask you in the

26:05audience to please stop doing that. We have decorum rules in here to be respectful

26:10to the conversation, debate, and discussion that's going to be happening.

26:13So I do not want to have to clear this chamber but I will. Okay so please

26:19don't put me in that position because I actually want to hear from everyone

26:24and have a really thoughtful conversation about this issue but that is completely

26:29distracting and it's frankly completely unnecessary. You might think it's

26:33helping, it's actually not because we're all here to have a really good

26:37conversation about this issue. So I would respectfully ask that you please stop

26:41doing that and we continue with the decorum that we have in this room to be

26:46able to hear all sources of opinions. Okay back to our staff please.

26:50Thank you. So for that reason we took the direction from council to bring back a

26:57bylaw to help define what are the spaces that may be best served by being

27:02available for overnight sheltering but that during the day when they are booked

27:06by others that we make those available to the community who has booked the spaces.

27:11But I want to talk about the tale of the second mother because this is a mother

27:15who came to Guelph and who set up camp in one of our parks because she had a

27:20child who needed medical care in our community and for unfortunate reasons

27:25her financial situation meant that she couldn't afford to stay in a hotel.

27:29And I'd love to see a situation where we never have to have that where a mom to

27:34try to do the best for her child chooses to camp in one of our parks so that she

27:38can get the medical care her child needs. But in that situation we were inundated

27:43with phone calls. Why is that tent in the park? Why is she allowed to be there?

27:48She shouldn't be permitted to be there. We want this bylaw in place so we can be

27:53very clear that in permissible locations in our parks that's okay.

27:58She should be allowed to be there. She shouldn't be hassled. She chose a park

28:03that was well lit that had amenities like a playground. And as a mom I was in

28:08the unfortunate situation that I had to make that choice. I'd also want to choose

28:12a park where I felt that I was the safest with my child. And again in an ideal

28:16world she shouldn't have had to make that choice. But if she did we want a bylaw

28:21in place that is clear that that is permissible. That the location that there

28:26are many many many locations in all of our parks that under this bylaw would be

28:31fully permissible for that mom to stay doesn't have to clean up and move along

28:37in the morning can stay 24 seven in a permissible location in our parks. And

28:43that mom matters too. And this bylaw is about balancing those needs of our

28:48community to set out where are the numerous places in our parks where this

28:53bylaw says camping is fully permissible and people can't be hassled. They can't

28:58be asked to move along. These are the safe places to be. But we also want to

29:02balance that there are other locations in our parks whether it's because they're

29:06booked or because they're sensitive environmentally that we need to have

29:09restrictions in place. So that is the balance that staff tried to find.

29:13Recognizing it's a very very difficult task. It was a hard conversation for us

29:17as staff to have. We know that it's a hard conversation for you as council to

29:21have. We are here to answer any questions that you may have now in result in

29:26response to our presentation as well as of course throughout the day. Thank you.

29:30OK, well thank thank you very much. Our staff that's done the presentation and

29:35actually I mean as much as I'm glad that you stayed on script. I like that you

29:40went off script at the end. I mean that that really summarizes kind of what

29:44we're trying to balance here. So I think it is important to have questions from

29:50council because I think as I said at the beginning of my remarks the foundation

29:56or the context of what this actual bylaw is is so important. And before our

30:03delegates come up it's important for the facts and that context to actually be

30:08stated publicly. So you've done that in the presentation. I think with our

30:12questions and answers back that might help frame how we move into delegations

30:17as well. So I'm going to start with Councillor Busuttil please. And then I'll

30:22head up to Councillor Allt after that. OK, and Kate. First of all I want to thank the

30:28staff. This was a huge undertaking. I think you had 11 days to do that. So I

30:33appreciate all the work and the research and the synthesis of the information.

30:38I also want to acknowledge at the beginning you talked about engagement.

30:42Engagement is hugely important to me and I think in 11 days can you respond to

30:48whether or not there were any focus groups or opportunities to speak to the

30:53residents of the encampments about the bylaws and even you know every story has

31:00two sides, the story about the pavilion, things like that anecdotally if you were

31:05able to collect that and I have some additional questions. Through the

31:09Mayor to Councillor Busuttil, no we did not because of the time that we had.

31:13Staff didn't participate in the county's health and health symposium at the end

31:16of the month which was just in advance of this bylaw being released and we

31:20certainly tried to incorporate some of what we heard in that room in the final

31:24version of this bylaw. But beyond that no we were not, we did not have time to

31:29conduct any further public engagement and we encouraged anyone from the public

31:33or our stakeholders that we heard of heard from to connect today through

31:38correspondence or delegations. Thank you and as part of your literature review

31:43you made reference to the legal decisions in Kingston and in, I forget the

31:48second one, Waterloo thank you and then there's some BC ones as well. Did you also

31:52look at the October 2023 Human Rights Commission survey that was done with

31:58encampment residents and their stories with encampments and municipal bylaws

32:03and so on. Did you do that review as well? Through the Mayor to Councillor Busuttil

32:12yes we did review that as well. Thank you and was that prior to the creation of the bylaw?

32:16Through the Mayor to the extent that timing allowed yes but it's been a bit of an

32:24iterative process and so we've been even as recently as yesterday we're still

32:28reviewing materials as they come in and so we've reviewed throughout the time

32:33that the bylaw was created and we continue to keep going back and looking

32:38to see how that might shape our path forward. Thank you. The other question

32:45that I had was about the bylaw. Why a decision of, I know Councillor directed

32:54the creation of a bylaw. Did staff consider a procedure similar or protocol

33:00similar to what Hamilton did and I'm waiting back to hear back from the City

33:04of Hamilton in the development of their protocol. Perhaps you know this if there

33:08was engagement with encampment stakeholders in the procedure that they developed.

33:15So through the Mayor to Councillor Busuttil we already have a standard operating procedure

33:19that we follow for encampments on city owned and operated property as well as on

33:23private property. We took the direction from council to bring back a bylaw and a

33:27bylaw obviously has more teeth in terms of enforceability both where it's

33:35permissive and where it's restrictive. In terms of engagement with Hamilton we

33:41have had conversations with them but in terms of in the last few weeks nothing

33:46very significant just because of the time that it permitted and so I don't know

33:50that we can comment on why Hamilton chose to go with a protocol not a bylaw. We

33:55took the direction from council which was to bring back a bylaw.

33:58Thank you. I guess my second question embedded in there was in your conversations

34:02with Hamilton taking a human rights approach was their engagement with the

34:07citizens of the encampment in the creation of their protocol. If you know that

34:14that's okay. I've already called them. I'll follow up on that.

34:17Through the Mayor we don't know that.

34:19And then just a supplemental to your reference around the standard operating

34:22procedure again. Human rights approach individuals no one likes things done to

34:27them for them about you know the the human rights approach clearly speaks about

34:33involving in your standard operating procedure was that part of the process

34:38of developing that standard operating procedure. Our stand through the Mayor

34:43standard operating procedure has been developed and refined a number of times

34:46in recent years as this situation has evolved and we've worked with a number

34:50of partners whether it's the drug strategy our partners in various social

34:54service agencies the County of Wellington to refine that standard operating

34:58procedure. So it has been in place for a number of years but it has evolved

35:03significantly also as we considered the various legal rulings and other

35:08jurisdictions that has what has been guided our standard operating procedure.

35:13So what I'm taking away is no there has not been direct encampment residents

35:19decision-making conversation in the standard operating procedure to date

35:23through the Mayor not by city staff but through our social service partners yes.

35:28Thank you that's all. Next I have is Councillor Allt please.

35:42Thank you Mayor Guthrie I hope I'm coming through.

35:46First of all like Councillor Bousatiel I do want to thank staff.

35:50I do appreciate that there have been efforts as staff said to to find balance

35:55I dare I say that I think that you are trying to find the wisdom of Solomon and

36:00and I regret that what might happen is is that we might end up splitting the baby.

36:06I have real concerns about terms like permissible and and also legitimizing

36:14and I'm very concerned that through no fault of staff the attempt to find balance

36:21is going to set the community up for disappointment.

36:26I do believe that there are people that feel that this bylaw is intended to

36:32remove homeless encampments from public spaces and what I'm hearing you say is

36:39that this actually legitimizes them in some form and some place.

36:44So I'm wondering if you could please comment on public perceptions and what it is

36:50that the intent of this particular bylaw is.

36:54Through the Mayor to Councillor Allt certainly we've had that feedback as well

37:02the perception that this is about banning encampments and that is not the case.

37:06It is about restricting temporary shelters from being erected in some locations

37:12restricting them completely as Mr. Godfrey has said it is about restricting

37:16to overnight hours in other locations and it is about being permissive in many

37:21other locations throughout the city and that is to be responsive both to the

37:27changing climate I think if we go back five years it was a very different

37:31landscape in terms of the number of individuals in our community who were

37:35having to make the difficult choice to live in temporary shelters and so until

37:39that is resolved and considering the legal rulings from other municipalities

37:45we felt that it was the most appropriate to bring a bylaw that actually

37:50was permissive in many many locations throughout the city to provide people

37:55with an option for where they could shelter temporarily until such time as

38:02dare I say all levels of government come together to find ways to make sure

38:08people have permanent shelter available.

38:11Thank you a couple of other questions I want to deal with some concrete concerns

38:20the number five concerns me I don't know how we deal with that and also

38:27I'm concerned with the time frame for removal of encampments and also location

38:34and I'll give a specific location just hopefully because that will ground this

38:38a bit across from the library there's a there's a fountain the IODE found that

38:43some might be familiar with if there were five tents set up there how long

38:49could those tents be established that's right in front of the library for

38:54purposes of reference I believe that they would be available there how long

38:59could they stay and then what are the consequences there are fines I understand

39:05but being realistic and being cynical I'm not certain of the impact of those so

39:11I wonder stuff could comment on that mouthful that I just asked.

39:16Through the mayor to councillor all type leave the area that you're speaking to

39:25is across the street from the library that that area we looked at it from a

39:32from a staff perspective as to whether or not it would meet the the area where it

39:38would be permissible we do believe that there is a small area on there that would

39:43permit tents 24-7 but it would there would be some setbacks in that.

39:49That's part of the question what about the number five and what about the

39:54time frame how long could they remain in a situation like that before if there were

40:01a complaint staff would be required to act.

40:04Through the mayor to councillor all if they are you know if they're

40:12complying with the regulations of the bylaw meaning the setbacks and everything like that

40:16that would be the the the structures or the temporary shelters may remain there forever.

40:24Thank you I just want to go through the the issue of fines and and quote enforcement

40:31if there is enforcement I'm wondering.

40:35Councillor Allt. Yes I'm just giving I'm just giving you a heads up everyone as a reminder here

40:40like you've already used two minutes and 23 seconds of your allotted time so I'm

40:44just giving you the heads up because I don't want you to I just want you to be aware.

40:47Okay so you've already used two minutes and twenty-two seconds.

40:50So I'll start at two twenty-three.

40:52The last questions that I have relate to fines and the the effect of those and also

40:59is there a role for the police.

41:06Sorry you had to.

41:08Through Mr. Mayor to councillor Allt with respect to fines as with any bylaw you know

41:13if passed the city would look at fines if suitable would be recommended and they would be passed.

41:24They would they'd be recommended based on other bylaws within the city of Guelph and

41:29neighboring municipalities they then be sent to the senior justice for approval.

41:33That's how the the set fine process works as with any bylaw however staff have the

41:39ability to issue charges issue warnings use discretion.

41:43I this this bylaw if the proposed bylaw if passed would apply to the use of structures

41:52within public spaces and it would apply to all residents.

41:58And if I can jump in through the mayor just to add to what Mr. Godfrey has answered the

42:03the goal with this bylaw was not about fines it's about setting parameters of what is and

42:08what is permissible on what locations and so fines would be a last resort and I think

42:13councillor Allt what you're asking is what in this situation what would be the point of

42:18levying a fine and for that reason education trying to help individuals find a

42:24permissible place to move to where they can stay and remain to your earlier question.

42:28If it's a permissible space they can stay there in perpetuity.

42:32And then I think your last question was about GPS Guelphly services.

42:37I don't think we want to speak for them.

42:40Certainly the goal here would be that we have a bylaw in place that can be that can be

42:46enforced by city bylaw staff without the need to involve police.

42:50But police are always the sort of final stop for anything where there's significant

42:56safety concerns or or or or situations where ultimately bylaw staff aren't able to deal

43:03with the situation.

43:05Thank you through Mayor Guthrie.

43:07Thank you to staff.

43:11Thank you.

43:13Councillor Caton and then Quran after that.

43:16Thank you through you Mr. Mayor to staff.

43:19I've been hearing from members of the accessibility advisory council that there are a

43:25number of accessibility concerns they have with this and I'm wondering within the

43:33community if there's any place that's on an accessible surface.

43:37Is there any place that's on an accessible surface because it didn't seem like that to me.

43:45Through the mayor to Councillor Caton given the time constraints we did not consult with

43:50the accessibility advisory committee and so I don't know that we can specifically answer

43:54the question because it would have to be location by location across the city.

43:58The one thing that I do want to just note is you'll have heard in my presentation my

44:03use of the phrase accessible.

44:05That's a very different use of the word that's what justice valente so I just want to

44:10make sure I think what you're talking about is accessibility in the realm of what our

44:15accessibility advisory committee considers and I just want to differentiate because

44:19justice valente use the word accessible in a fairly different way.

44:24I think in terms of specific locations around the city where this bylaw to pass we would

44:29then want to work with the accessibility advisory committee to review locations to see what might

44:36be possible from an accessibility point of view but we have not had the time to do that review with them yet.

44:42Thank you.

44:44Through the mayor can you explain the rationale of why no more than five.

44:50It seems kind of counter to folks who are trying to come right your own community to limit the amount of

44:57tents that can be in a cluster.

45:00Through the mayor to Councillor Keaton that was directly as a result of the experience in Hamilton and the

45:06protocol that they established and so we looked to use the learnings of other municipalities wherever it made

45:12sense and the city of Hamilton adopted that cluster of five and so we did the same.

45:20And thank you.

45:22Through the mayor can you explain in the anecdote about the pavilion why the tent couldn't be moved just

45:28because there was a previous booking seems like having the pavilion booked would allow you to remove other people from the pavilion.

45:37Through the mayor to Councillor Keaton that is unfortunately not the case because there is no bylaw in effect that makes the

45:43tent not permissible there.

45:46And so that is exactly why we need this bylaw.

45:49Obviously it would be a difficult situation and one that we grappled with a number of times last summer where we have a

45:56booking that has a valid and legitimate contract but in the absence of this bylaw we don't have rules in place that allow us to

46:06require that individual to remove other tent from that pavilion so that it is for that very reason that this bylaw is needed so that we

46:14can address those situations.

46:17So in short a facility booking contract is not enough to trigger requiring somebody to move.

46:25We need this bylaw.

46:27Thank you very much.

46:41Thank you.

46:42Next is Councillor Caron and then over to Councillor O'Rourke.

46:46Mr. Mayor a quick question.

46:48I know that our normal standard public engagement process can be very robust.

46:53Some bylaws we take a year to do engagement activities, go out into communities, translate materials, have your say.

47:02And others are shortened.

47:04As you said in your introduction this just has not occurred at all with this bylaw given the 11 day turnaround and I have that series concerns about that.

47:12How long would staff estimate a public engagement period might take for us to meet the minimum standards of our community consultation practices?

47:28You know a month, three months.

47:32If you were to go back out to the community and do a proper consultation process what would be the minimum amount of time that you would need?

47:41Through the Mayor to Councillor Caron.

47:44Based on other bylaw reviews and the engagement process I would estimate that it would be six to six months to a year for this subject.

47:55Okay.

48:00Okay.

48:01Nothing further at this time?

48:03No, just for the end.

48:05Okay.

48:06So now I have our work next and then Downer.

48:10Thanks Mayor Guthrie.

48:11We seem to be on a theme of timing so I'm going to pursue that theme.

48:15Staff know I had a concern about the implementation date of March 1st so I'm really happy to hear you say, I mean, you would start working with people on that day because we're going to vote on it the 17th of February.

48:28So I was really concerned about what happens March 1st.

48:31So what does happen on March 1st to deal with folks who might be in areas that are no longer deemed permissible should the bylaw pass?

48:42And then what happens afterwards because you know even when we're looking at the bylaw we're like so where can they be right?

48:49So somebody who's in dire straits is going to have a hard time figuring out setbacks blah blah blah they're not going to read the bylaw.

48:54So what happens March 1st?

48:56What's the engagement process?

48:58What are the timelines look like and then what's the ongoing education after that?

49:04So through the Mayor to Councillor O'Rourke.

49:06So March 1st probably nothing dramatic because we would really be moving towards only dealing with anything that was an immediate safety concern.

49:15Moving forward we would want to connect with our partners through the County of Wellington, Steppingstone, which is the agency that the county is contracted with to do the primary first point of contact outreach to individuals

49:27living in encampments and I would imagine I think we're tracking 14 encampment locations right now.

49:35Ish?

49:36Ish.

49:37So we would want to then through Steppingstone and the county's assistance connect in with each of those individuals look at the locations, determine whether or not they met the parameters within the bylaw and many of those locations would not be covered by the bylaw.

49:53Many of the current encampment locations in the city are not on city property.

49:57So we would look at that list, determine which ones were on city owned or operated property and then I would imagine and again I haven't discussed this with with Doug or Dustin but I would imagine we would probably first ask the Steppingstone team to connect in with those individuals, make sure they're on the counties by name list and identify if their location where they are currently camping does not meet.

50:23The parameters of the bylaw determine a location that would meet their needs that does meet the parameters of the bylaw and so it would be through discussion and education and conversation.

50:34Eventually if the individuals did not still opted not to move from that location then that would be where we would engage our bylaw staff to have follow up conversations with individuals.

50:46So it's going to be an iterative process but the primary goal would be to assist individuals with relocating to a place that is permissible.

50:56Okay, thank you.

50:59I have another timing question with respect to a number of us were at the health and housing symposium two weeks ago now.

51:06The main thrust of that was to develop a joint plan with the county and see what the priority actions were.

51:15So I'm wondering why why pass the bylaw now and not wait for it to be informed by the conversation.

51:22So can you help me understand why that how this timing aligns with the timing of the health and housing symposium.

51:28So through the mayor to council or work partly because that's the timeline that we were given and so we you know that that was the direction from council that you wanted to see this back by the end of February.

51:40So that is we are being responsive to that because we follow your direction.

51:46If the desire is to push it out.

51:49I would say that the joint plan that is coming out of the health and housing symposium is about getting people places, ideally permanent shelter and and and addressing that the concerns of individuals struggling with housing instability.

52:06There still needs to be a parallel process if the city is to deal with situations on city owned property, not withstanding anything that comes out of the health and housing symposium.

52:18We without a bylaw, we have no tool available to either enforce or permit encampments.

52:26So I think we still need that direction from council.

52:29We still need those parameters and that will actually feed into the conversations that we're having in that follow up meeting in April.

52:35We might well then use this bylaw to look at what are the permissible locations under the bylaw as the work plan is being developed so that we can in tandem be finding the best and safest places for people to camp.

52:52Because I could imagine in April, if we're having discussions about permissible locations for temporary shelters, we don't have a bylaw to help feed into that discussion.

53:02We don't have a decision from council on what is and isn't permissible.

53:06So I think that was a bit of a rambly way to say we took your direction on the timing, but I actually think that the timing works well because this will feed into those conversations that the county is leading.

53:19That's really helpful. Thank you.

53:21Through you, Marga, three to Ms. Kleckbush.

53:23Similar question on timing.

53:25So why not wait for the results of the Kingston bylaw?

53:28Would that provide additional clarity in terms of what will be permissible through the mayor to council or work? It could. It might not.

53:40There might be other legal challenges and other communities. And so again, taking the direction from council.

53:46I think that the direction was to bring something back by the end of February, notwithstanding those other legal challenges. And so that's what we've done.

53:55You could wait until the Kingston, the decision of the appellate court comes out, but there might then be another legal ruling.

54:05And so I don't, I'm imagining that I'm not going to ask Matthew or Jennifer to comment because that wouldn't be fair.

54:12They would need to go into close to do that.

54:14But I'm going to guess that there could be other legal rulings.

54:19We might never be clear of legal rulings or challenges. And so you might always be waiting for something.

54:26Through you, Marga, three to two more. One is that just want to confirm that I've understood correctly.

54:31The city and the county will continue to track existing locations where people are living rough or in encampments or camping.

54:40And so that outreach does continue, right, regardless of the bylaw through the mayor to council work. Absolutely.

54:46Regardless of what council does, we have a really robust process.

54:50And as Anthony spoke about, it has become greatly enhanced in recent months, following up on the direction of council.

54:58And so we are tracking every location of every encampment in the city so that we can make sure that the county is connecting in to get people on the by name list.

55:06Stepping Stone is working directly with those individuals to make them aware of shelter opportunities.

55:11And I would also be remiss if I didn't speak to the direct connection of our partners at the Guelph Community Health Center and Sanguine and our community paramedics through Guelph Wellington Paramedic Services,

55:21all of whom, and I know I've missed some, so apologies. Stone, I know is a great partner as well.

55:27There's a number of partners who come together and work to make sure that any supports that are needed are provided to those individuals who are living in those encampment situations.

55:37And that work will continue regardless of any decisions made today.

55:41Thank you. And my last question through you to Ms. Clark Bush. So we're all aware of the report that came out yesterday actually on encampments and human rights.

55:55So I think the community is saying first just how is people.

56:01And then they're saying and if you can't house them, then at least provide them with these basic amenities. So that report and it's sort of number one act immediately to save lives bullets.

56:11The second bullet says provide access to clean water, sanitation, food, heating and cooling, accessibility to support its health care and harm reduction.

56:19Are we also looking at that in parallel, right? Because I think, I think we see the reports.

56:27We don't want people to be cold and we also don't want fires from propane tanks.

56:32We want people to have access to sanitation because, you know, people in the community don't necessarily want, you know, some of the challenges that come with lack of sanitation, right?

56:43And people should have a dignified experience and access to water and a washroom and these things.

56:48So what is the and peace? Because I think we're really caught in this either or and what is the and peace that we are also look are we also looking at a location where people could have clean water.

57:03So we're saying not here but over there to camp or not here but over here where you could have water washroom heat, etc.

57:13So through the mayor to council work, I absolutely think it's an and this bylaw actually is provides.

57:20I'm not sure if hundreds is safe to say but I actually think it probably is hundreds of locations around the city where it would be permissible to camp and clearly we can't provide servicing to all of those locations.

57:32This bylaw was about designating where you can legally camp and where the locations that are restricted.

57:40A parallel process to that is the work that the county is leading on our behalf because they are our CMSM our consolidated municipal services manager that is their responsibility and they are through the work of that health and housing symposium going to be coming back and looking at the and side of what you stated which is what are the supports.

58:02What is the long term plan for temporary sheltering is it outdoor locations is it more indoor locations that's that work is all still continuing and is really important work.

58:13The piece in the middle is what you've already done through the motions that Anthony talked about increasing the wellness checks the hundred thousand dollars that was allocated to get direct supports out to individuals in the encampments.

58:27That's to me what is bridging as well those those those two processes.

58:32It's it's a highly complex.

58:35It's a highly complex area of discussion.

58:39I don't believe that this bylaw precludes any of that continuing on and that's all very very important work.

58:46And in an ideal situation that parallel process gets us to a point where it's solving the problem and we don't have anybody living in instability with their housing so that the bylaw becomes something that we don't actually ever have to look at because we're not needing it because permanent shelter has been found for everyone.

59:06That's the ideal end state.

59:08Thank you.

59:14Next on my list is Councillor Downer and then after you Councillor Chew.

59:20Through you Mr Mayor so I just want to want to talk about you know there's been a ask about there's been a number of concerns raised about location to services in the downtown and concern about the square.

59:36So my understanding is in the square that you know maybe not the flower beds when we want to plant there because that's programmable space but also there's that there's could be camping overnight there but not during the day.

59:52But can you sort of tell me my understanding are certain parks around the downtown that are close would be the one on Waterloo and Gordon that that triangle there there's Wolffond Park.

1:00:05There's rural city park.

1:00:07There's exhibition park.

1:00:08So those those would all be permissible spots is my understanding.

1:00:13Through the mayor to Councillor Downer that is correct.

1:00:16Okay.

1:00:19And and my understanding too is what you said I just want to make clear like so you would not be going out on March 1st and removing people that there's a long thing of let's work with people.

1:00:30Let's see what emergency shelters let's identify more of their particular needs and then work with them on those and okay.

1:00:38So what the last resort would be picking them up and moving them or the enforcement part of it is what I'm hearing.

1:00:46Okay.

1:00:47So what also around this bylaw is it kind of would it be more like a living bylaw so if after four four months if this was approved.

1:00:56I mean council may approve it may make amendments that may do a number of things right or it may turn it down or it could be deferred but is if it was passed is it would it be considered a living bylaw where we could be reassessing this as we're going along as well and have points along the way where okay this isn't working or maybe we do a map or you know those types of things because I understand the short time that council has given staff to do this.

1:01:24I mean we recognize when we made this decision that we wouldn't have the regular public engagement.

1:01:29All of us recognize that it was a unanimous vote.

1:01:34Through the mayor to councillor Downer as with any bylaw we can amend it as need be as part of our review process of any new bylaw that's passed a year's time we do look at the effectiveness and report back and inform council as the effectiveness of it and whether or not there's

1:01:49any changes needed to be any change so we do have that built in with every bylaw that's passed but as with any bylaw should there be housekeeping amendments or should there need to be further discussion on there's the ability to bring it back.

1:02:01Okay could there be a time where we implement the bylaw and within six months we we decide okay so in six months we want to review the bylaw with our community partners including those with lived experience is that something we could build in as well.

1:02:18Through the mayor to councillor Downer our current process is a year so we can report back council can direct us back to say no we would like that.

1:02:26I understand the current process but I guess council could direct us.

1:02:30Thank you.

1:02:35Councillor Chew please.

1:02:37Thank you.

1:02:38Through you Mr. Mayor just following up on councillor Downer's line of questioning.

1:02:42So typically our monitoring process is one year since a bylaw is adopted that's correct.

1:02:52I just wanted to confirm to make it very clear.

1:02:55That through the mayor to councillor Chew that's correct.

1:02:58Okay so I'm just very I just want to make it very clear and understand the mechanics of this bylaw so I see in schedule a sensitive public areas we're still trying to scope that out but that would really help.

1:03:11But that would really include places like St. George's Square like councillor Downer had brought up.

1:03:18Through the mayor to councillor Chew that schedule is there in case that future locations are needed to be added by council St. George's Square is already well covered in terms of the provisions of this bylaw now.

1:03:31To our knowledge the spaces that you are considering are already covered by the parameters of this bylaw schedule a is left there in case at a future date council wishes to add any other sensitive areas.

1:03:44Okay and just a clarifying question for just for my sake.

1:03:51In your view this bylaw is very very much foundational in order to move forward with our conversations in April and onwards.

1:04:02Through the mayor to councillor Chew.

1:04:06Yes and the reason why I'm hesitating is those conversations can continue without the bylaw.

1:04:11The bylaw you gave us direction to bring back the bylaw.

1:04:15I think to address some specific concerns and as we've tried to articulate there are concerns on both sides of this concerns where there are encampments set up that there is a desire not to.

1:04:26And as I tried to articulate situations where people are legitimately camping and we want a bylaw in place that gives them permission to do that.

1:04:35So I mean our first starting point was you asked us to bring back the bylaw we have we then tried to find a balance of what we thought was appropriate and that's what we're presenting before you whether or not that foundational work can continue.

1:04:53That I sort of leave that in in council's hands.

1:04:58As I've stated I think they can happen in parallel process.

1:05:02But that work is still going to continue led by the county.

1:05:06So and I'm going to turn to our CAO I let him jump in in case.

1:05:10Oh sorry it looked like you were going to get good.

1:05:13Thank you and with your permission through you Mr. Mayor.

1:05:17I think as you as you move through these questions and you hear from the delegations today.

1:05:21I think your your your line of thought is very much on the bylaw.

1:05:26But I think your line of thought has got to be.

1:05:29And you know when you look at the second and third recommendation, your expectations have to be clear that anybody that you might think upstream has to do their job better.

1:05:42Because we have what we have today.

1:05:44The bylaw is at the end and that's where you've been forced to be here is at the end of the stream, not the upstream.

1:05:52The expectation if you if you pass a bylaw and you review it, it has to come with expectations of others.

1:06:00And you know we can talk about that later if you want on who are the others upstream.

1:06:04But the fact that you're here it keeps forcing you into a lane that hasn't been yours.

1:06:09You're the enforcement part.

1:06:11There is a whole bunch of others that I think if we put this bylaw in place, it should only be because they've done their job better that you ever have to get to it.

1:06:19I think as Ms. Klekbush said earlier.

1:06:22So that's the trouble we focused on this and yet the upstream part still is unresolved and that's got to be part of whatever you pass today.

1:06:32Even if you pass nothing, it keeps coming back to expectations.

1:06:36So at the end of this month, there'll be a chat about potential new joint social services committee.

1:06:41I think that's a great opportunity there and there's some other folks, province and other places that there has to be a discussion because the bylaw won't solve this issue of people without homes.

1:06:53That's just at the end here.

1:06:55So keep that in mind because it's a tough slog here for you.

1:06:57I can I can feel it already and you're going to want to hear from the delegates.

1:07:01They'll have some good thoughts on this too, but upstream.

1:07:04So always keep that in mind because we can we can move this bylaw here and there, but the bylaws at the end, others have got to do it or it's just not going to be helpful.

1:07:14And look at all the motions you've passed in the last six months.

1:07:18Why are we having to fight to get people to get people to do a wellness check?

1:07:22It just shouldn't be happening.

1:07:23It shouldn't be a fight.

1:07:24You shouldn't have to put an extra $100,000 into it, but you have and there's a reason for that.

1:07:29So I'll keep coming back to that.

1:07:30Mr. Mayor with council.

1:07:31We're on for that part of the discussion too, because it's so needed.

1:07:35So overdue and and the support that was just had might be that great spot as well to jump into that.

1:07:41So I'm really looking forward to what great solutions come out of that two days worth of work because it then might just put a bylaw into the drawer and we never have to pull them out like we do with so many bylaws.

1:07:52They're just they're just in case.

1:07:54So I'll leave that thought with you because you can get yourself wrapped up in circles here over the enforcement part and it's important.

1:08:02And that's why you have lots of delegations here today.

1:08:04But I bet you their energy is also on the upstream work that needs to be done by others and and not this Board of Governors for sure.

1:08:12Does anyone else have any other questions at this time?

1:08:27I had no one else on my list.

1:08:29No.

1:08:33Okay.

1:08:35Thank you.

1:08:37I think that's set some set some of that context and foundation that I talked about before the delegates come up.

1:08:47And I did want to if you could just give me a moment.

1:08:50I just did want to read something.

1:08:58Yeah, I've sent this to council and I just we got this email yesterday from the senior policy advisor from

1:09:13the office of the federal housing advocate, the Canadian Human Rights Commission.

1:09:18And so between now and the end of the month, there's going to be a meeting in regards to what's happening across the country, but also what's happening around this whole topic.

1:09:33And, you know, just to be very clear, I haven't talked to them yet, but we're going to be talking to them soon.

1:09:39But I just did I just did want to say that at the end of their email to us, it said the following it is encouraging that Guelph City Council has adopted a human rights based approach to housing in October 2023, and that your staff considered human

1:09:57dignity, community safety, and environmental risks in drafting this public space use bylaw.

1:10:06So we look forward to continuing to work with you where we can, as you can continue to address this crisis in your municipality.

1:10:15So I just wanted to make sure that people were aware of that email and that commentary that came that were encouraged with the way staff have addressed this finding that balance.

1:10:31So before we get to the delegation list.

1:10:36We have several some have already taken their name off the list.

1:10:42So we're down a few.

1:10:46So there's probably like, there's a there's a lot here and so at some point, I'll maybe just give a heads up that we might take a break.

1:10:55Okay, but just just for everyone's sake in the room.

1:10:58And for anyone that's delegating, whether you're here or phone or video, if you call in, it's no more than five minutes.

1:11:09And we actually have a chime in the room that you'll hear at the four minute 30 second mark to give you a warning that there's only 30 seconds left.

1:11:19Don't so don't go over the five minutes because we do have to cut you off.

1:11:23And then when you're done, just if you're in the room and you're coming down to the microphone, stay there because there could be follow up question.

1:11:32There might not be but just stay there for a second.

1:11:34So when you're done, just just hold on and I'll see if there's any questions for you.

1:11:37Okay.

1:11:40And I think I'd just like to say one extra thing before we get into the delegations to is that, you know, one of the things that I have consistently heard from staff and from my colleagues.

1:11:55There is unity around the fact that nobody here does not care about the homeless.

1:12:01Okay, we are actually trying to figure this out as the CAO just said.

1:12:07With the tools and the lane that we are in where there are so many other others involved.

1:12:15And so I think if we start with our conversation with delegations and us in response is around this unity of trying to try and define balance and to help as much as we can.

1:12:28That's a good that's a good place to be.

1:12:30Okay.

1:12:31So with that, let's start.

1:12:33First on and please forgive me if I do not say the names right, please forgive me please correct me if you get to the mic.

1:12:40So Denise Manser is Denise here.

1:12:45Okay, yeah.

1:12:47Come on down and Morgan dandy is next in the wings.

1:12:53I see you Morgan in the front row there so you're going to be next.

1:12:58Denise, thank you very much for joining us today. As I said, you have no more than five minutes. So you'll hear the chime with 30 seconds to go.

1:13:06Whenever you start your clock starts so go ahead.

1:13:09Okay, my name is Denise Manser and I'm the owner and proprietor of Miss Mary Mac boutique.

1:13:14I am speaking to you today not only as a proud proud member of the vibrant golf community, but also as a proprietor of the only black owned women's clothing boutique in our city.

1:13:24I'm going to be talking this discussion through the lens of a black woman, a person who knows what it means to be amongst the most marginalized communities.

1:13:31My establishment stands not just as a place of commerce, but as a symbol of diversity empowerment and the resilience of the black community in wealth.

1:13:40As a black as a business owner in downtown wealth. I am more than just property and I'm more than just profit.

1:13:47Today I want to bring to your attention a pressing issue that is affecting our community specifically the impact of the encampment on the woman owned and black owned businesses along Quebec street.

1:13:56The encampments that have sprung up in the vicinity are causing significant harm, not only to the businesses, but the overall safety and well being of the area.

1:14:04For three years, my boutique has served as a beacon of inclusivity and opportunity, offering unique fashion choices and a safe space for women of all backgrounds to express themselves.

1:14:14However, recent events have cast a shadow over our efforts to foster positivity and growth.

1:14:19The encampment and open drug use plaguing our neighborhood have had devastating consequences for my business and the broader community.

1:14:26The encampment has become a breeding ground for crime, violence and degradation directly impacting the safety and well being of residents and businesses alike.

1:14:34The incidents I have personally experienced are not just isolated occurrences, but symptoms of a larger problem that cannot be ignored.

1:14:42My store has been broken into, vandalized and subjected to horrifying acts of disrespect and aggression.

1:14:49Imagine the distress of finding a headless crow at your storefront on a bustling Saturday afternoon or witnessing individuals defecating and engaging in open drug use right outside of your place of business.

1:15:01These behaviors not only jeopardize the physical safety of patrons and passerby, but perpetuate a climate of fear and insecurity that undermines the sense of community we strive to uphold.

1:15:11The incident involving one of my elderly customers who was assaulted and felt too intimidated to report the crime is a stark reminder of the urgent need for action.

1:15:19She declined notifying the police for fear of retaliation, knowing that the assailant would back on the street within 24 hours and may retaliate.

1:15:27Moving forward, we must confront these challenges head on and prioritize the well being of our community.

1:15:33It is not enough to simply turn a blind eye or dismiss these issues as inevitable byproducts of urban life.

1:15:39We owe it to ourselves and future generations to demand accountability and seek tangible solutions.

1:15:45As a business owner, I implore city officials and fellow residents to stand in solidarity with black owned and women owned enterprises like mine and take decisive action to address the root causes of these problems.

1:15:56This includes advocating for the relocation of the encampment to ensure safety and prosperity for all stakeholders involved.

1:16:03By addressing the underlying issues of homelessness, addiction and social marginalization, we can create a more inclusive and equitable society where every member has the opportunity to thrive.

1:16:13Together, we can build a future where businesses are not just places of commerce, but catalysts for positive change and community enrichment.

1:16:21I was told to educate my children about opiate addiction if they witness open drug use on the street.

1:16:27My son was stopped by the Guelph police for jogging at 6.30 in the morning for no reason other than being black.

1:16:33What is the education for my son?

1:16:35If he is white bodied, he can openly inject smoke and sell drugs in public, but if you're a black, you're not allowed to jog on the street.

1:16:42In conclusion, I urge you to join me in advocating for safer, more vibrant Guelph where black owned and women owned businesses can continue to flourish and contribute to the cultural tapestry of our city.

1:16:53Our collective voice is powerful and together we can build a brighter future for generations to come.

1:16:59Okay, thank you Denise. Is there any follow up for this delegation today? Hearing and seeing none, thank you very much for starting us off.

1:17:07Morgan Dandy, you are up next and then I have Anthea Millican is okay. You'll be in the wings, okay?

1:17:18As we gather, let us take time to reflect on our privilege to live in working Guelph, a city built over rich indigenous histories.

1:17:45We are guests here and should reflect upon the responsibility to care for this land, the people who live here today, and the generations to come.

1:17:55If our actions today can move us towards reconciliation, we should take pause and make those decisions with intention and gratitude.

1:18:04Mayor, council, staff and neighbors, these words are recited at the beginning of council meetings.

1:18:12While reading the staff report and draft public space to you, I wondered how many people have actually taken the time to truly reflect on the responsibility we all bear towards reconciliation.

1:18:23Reconciliation without first establishing truth is not possible.

1:18:28As I was reading the draft by-law before us today, the truth circulating through my thoughts were words shared by 1492 Lambak Lane spokesperson Skyler Williams.

1:18:39At the beginning of a recently remastered song by Mohawk artist Logan Statz called Six Miles.

1:18:46In part, Skyler states, quote, the connection we have to this land is far greater than anything they can do to us.

1:18:53They have tried to beat it out of us. They have tried to over incarcerate us residential school it out of us, but it remains end quote.

1:19:01The draft public space use by-law as written does little to nothing to further reconciliation.

1:19:09The Canada Census 2021 for Guelph indicates there are 2,220 individuals who have indigenous identity, described as including, quote, persons who identify as First Nations, North American Indian, Métis and or Inuk, Inuit and or those who report being registered or treaty Indians,

1:19:28that is registered under the Indian Act of Canada and or those who report having membership in First Nation or Indian Band, end quote.

1:19:37Knowing the truth of the over-policing of indigenous, the over-incarceration of indigenous and the over-representation of indigenous in the unhoused population within so-called Canada,

1:19:49I wonder how many indigenous are unhoused in Guelph and therefore not represented in the numbers of the census.

1:19:56I commend staff on the work they have done to get this draft by-law compiled in such a short period of time while having to discard their standard operating procedure of extensive community consultation and careful consideration of unintended consequences.

1:20:10I reviewed the collective results report from September 2023 and the Hamilton encampment protocol to be as informed as I could.

1:20:19The aspect I find lacking in this draft by-law in my estimation is a direct result of the incomplete nature of council direction to create it, namely the other side of the equation.

1:20:31Where are people who have no other choice and need to access the life-saving services of a warming shelter, food and health care provided downtown supposed to be?

1:20:45By declaring Guelph a community which takes human rights-based approach to housing, Council enacted the right to housing as it is legislated in the National Housing Strategy Act 2021, which, quote,

1:20:57provides an important parallel means to claim the right to housing, to hold governments accountable to their obligations under international human rights law, and to address systemic issues that courts in Canada have failed to address, end quote.

1:21:14In my opinion, by failing to include direction to staff to ensure this other side of the equation is addressed in the draft by-law, staff were not truly able to incorporate the fifth core principle of housing first approach that quote,

1:21:29social and community integration means that individuals can access housing models that do not further contribute to stigma and or isolation.

1:21:42I implore Council to do three things. Take time to truly reflect on our collective responsibility to our most vulnerable neighbors. Read Federal Housing Advocate Marie Jose-Hul's report on tent encampments released February 13th.

1:21:58Stop this draft by-law process today and allow the requisite time for consultation to effectively address the concerns of the privileged amongst us without harming the unhoused neighbors.

1:22:10Okay, thank you. I just want to make sure you weren't stopping thinking that was the end. You are done. Okay, I want to make sure. Okay, is there any questions as a follow-up? No, thank you very much.

1:22:23And next is Athea Millican and then Janice Folk-Dawson. Is Janice here? Yes? Okay, you're in the wings. Welcome and thank you.

1:22:41Thank you, Mr. Mayor, but I'm ready for Council. My name is Athea Millican. I'm a lawyer and I'm the executive director of the legal clinic of Guelph and Wellington County.

1:22:50As you know, the clinic represents low income residents of Guelph and Wellington County in housing and income issues.

1:22:59We've been located in downtown Guelph for 22 years now. We're currently inside the Guelph Community Health Center.

1:23:07We are here on behalf of the clinic. I'm here on behalf of the clinic and our clients to ask you not to pass this bylaw.

1:23:15This bylaw will be challenged. There are ongoing charter challenges and the area of the charter and unsheltered rights is an evolving field.

1:23:26There are open legal questions such as day sheltering to be answered by the courts. The Kingston decision is being appealed.

1:23:35Litigation has been going on in other municipalities on and off for years, including Hamilton.

1:23:41Why would you want to put yourself in a situation where you will be part of that litigation?

1:23:50The cost of passing a bylaw that will be challenged must be considered. You will be spending a lot of money defending a bylaw and adding to the body of law as to the application of the charter on encampments.

1:24:03Why would you want to willingly undertake that? The bylaw is potentially unconstitutional and will be costly. This is the impact on the city and on taxpayers.

1:24:15The impact on the people it seeks to regulate is significant. It exposes vulnerable people to potential harm. The bylaw is highly restrictive.

1:24:27It is unclear from the bylaw where a homeless person could erect a tent. It would have been better to have a map as to where it is permitted.

1:24:36Even if permitted, you can't peg the tent into the ground. There is no urinating or defecating, no use of public utilities, no heat.

1:24:48The parts related to heat are so restrictive as to be unusable. There is no manual that's going to tell you that you can use a heater inside a tent.

1:24:56Why pass this bylaw now? There are so many things that the city could do first to show that you are solving the problem before passing a bylaw.

1:25:07You can build a supervised encampment site. You can put up tiny homes. You can make sure that sheltering options are truly accessible.

1:25:17If the options are truly accessible, you don't have to force someone to leave a tent. They will willingly go.

1:25:24You can action the items coming out of the houses.

1:25:28Don't worry, I won't use the whole of your time. Here we are again. We are here for hours and we are respectfully listening to everybody.

1:25:38Please don't interrupt with what you are doing and let's keep decorum so that we can keep this meeting going all together.

1:25:47This is a community conversation. I want the community here, but we have to maintain decorum in the room.

1:25:53Please don't do that. You are interrupting people, including the delegate that is trying to speak right now and we are trying to concentrate on listening to her words.

1:26:04So don't do that because it is interrupting what we want to actually hear and thoughtfully consider.

1:26:10This is the second time now. I don't know why I have to continue to ask. Please do not do that.

1:26:16Let's just all sit here and engage and have a good conversation together about this important topic.

1:26:22Okay, bylaw, I'm sorry, I'm going to have to ask that person to leave. You're going to have to ask these people to leave.

1:26:37We will not continue. We are not going to continue until bylaw. Please leave.

1:26:47Okay, we are calling a recess for 10 minutes and we will come back.

1:26:57Okay, everyone. Hello, is this on?

1:30:50Hey, could I actually just have a conversation with everyone right now? Just wait one second. I'll just have a conversation with everyone, okay?

1:30:57And to those online, we are not calling the meeting officially back to order yet.

1:31:04So I just wanted to ask everybody, the reason why I took a recess there is to just kind of cool the room just for a moment.

1:31:14I actually want all of you to stay here. And perhaps, you know, I use language like decorum and that's because I live in sort of this world here

1:31:26and I didn't, you may be explaining well enough what I meant by that, but if you just take out the word decorum

1:31:32and we just have this agreement of mutual respect that we're not interrupting each other,

1:31:38let me be clear because I wanted to set the expectations of how we can engage for the rest of this day.

1:31:46And so the expectations are to be really clear. We can't have like clapping, you know, snapping and like, you can't do that kind of stuff

1:31:57because it's distracting for the people we're actually trying to listen to.

1:32:02And what it's important to is that this room is a place of where differences of opinion can be freely heard.

1:32:12So if someone comes to the microphone, like we actually already had that today already, right?

1:32:17We had someone come with one opinion and then we have someone that is coming up next that might have a completely different opinion

1:32:24and this is that room, this is this arena where we have to be able to have those differences of opinion

1:32:32because as we hear those differences of opinion, it helps us try to digest and filter what we need to do before we continue with conversations

1:32:41or decisions that we have to make. So I just would ask as we continue that we just uphold that mutual respect.

1:32:51So again, forget the word decorum, just mutual respect and that we do it together.

1:32:57And I've been saying this, this is like the third time I'm saying that this now, but I'm just trying to drive the point home

1:33:03just so that I don't have to get to a point where I'm asking people to leave because I literally don't want that.

1:33:10I want everybody here to be able to speak their mind that is signed up.

1:33:14We've got several hours of this and we're all ready to go.

1:33:18So if we could have that mutual respect and now that I've maybe explained it in a better terms so we have that mutual understanding,

1:33:27let's continue and let's try to keep it going here because we all want to do that including myself, okay?

1:33:35So thank you. I will officially call the meeting back to order now and have a seat.

1:33:41If there's others that need to come back in, please welcome them.

1:33:46But let's not shout out of order or do any of that stuff that is distracting to the topic at hand, okay?

1:33:55And thank you to my colleagues and to staff as well.

1:34:00Now, Athena, you were right in the middle.

1:34:04Yeah, and I'm so sorry that I had to do that.

1:34:07I'm trying to remember.

1:34:09I'm very happy to start at the beginning if you'd like, but if you'd rather I start at the paragraph, I'll start here.

1:34:13I think it would be best if you started at the beginning again because then it's just a fulsome delegation.

1:34:19Is that okay with you?

1:34:20I'm very pleased to do so.

1:34:22Yeah, okay. So we're rewinding the tape.

1:34:25Thank you.

1:34:26Hello, how are you?

1:34:27Thank you for coming here.

1:34:28Thank you, Mayor.

1:34:29Five minutes. Go for it.

1:34:30Thank you.

1:34:31My name is Anthea Millican.

1:34:33I'm a lawyer.

1:34:34I'm the executive director of the legal clinic of Guelph and Wellington County.

1:34:37The legal clinic provides legal services for low income residents in Guelph and Wellington County.

1:34:43We've been located downtown for 22 years.

1:34:45We're currently inside the Guelph Community Health Center here to say that we do not support this bylaw.

1:34:51We do not support a bylaw.

1:34:53This bylaw will be challenged.

1:34:55There are ongoing charter challenges and the area of charter and unsheltered rights is an evolving field.

1:35:01There are open legal questions such as day sheltering to be answered by the courts.

1:35:06The Kingston decision is being appealed.

1:35:08Litigation has been going on in other municipalities on and off for years and I added including Hamilton.

1:35:14Why would you want to put yourself in a situation where you will be part of that litigation?

1:35:20The cost of passing a bylaw that will be challenged must be considered.

1:35:24You will be spending a lot of money defending a bylaw and adding to the body of law as to the application of the charter on encampments.

1:35:31Why would you want to willingly undertake that?

1:35:35The bylaw is potentially unconstitutional and will be costly.

1:35:39This is the impact on the city and taxpayers.

1:35:43The impact on the people it seeks to regulate is significant.

1:35:47It exposes vulnerable people to potential harm.

1:35:51The bylaw is highly restrictive.

1:35:54It's unclear from the bylaw where a homeless person could erect a tent.

1:35:59It would have been better to have a map as to where it is permitted.

1:36:03Even if permitted, you can't peg a tent in the ground.

1:36:08There is no urinating or defecating, no use of public utilities, no heat.

1:36:12The parts relating to heating are so restrictive as to be unusable.

1:36:16As I said, no instruction manual is going to say that you can heat your tent with a heater.

1:36:21Why pass this bylaw now?

1:36:24There are so many things the city could do first to show that you are solving the problem before passing a bylaw.

1:36:29You can build a supervised encampment site.

1:36:32You can put up tiny homes.

1:36:34You can make sure that sheltering options are truly accessible.

1:36:38If the options are truly accessible, you don't have to force someone to leave a tent.

1:36:43They would happily go.

1:36:45You can actually get the items coming out of the housing symposium.

1:36:48You can work with the county, with unsheltered people, with stakeholders to come up with positive solutions.

1:36:55It is not appropriate to give the matter over to bylaw enforcement to be regulated.

1:37:00The money and time would be better spent having more outreach workers and supports.

1:37:05A system of ticketing homeless people is a bureaucratic waste of time,

1:37:10clogging the administration of provincial offenses, needlessly racking up fines.

1:37:15This approach of limiting where sheltering can be done is very challenging for the people it is intending to regulate.

1:37:22For a homeless person, you are likely to be in the wrong spot, at the wrong time, with the wrong equipment most of the time.

1:37:30It is denial by design.

1:37:33We know that it's hard to see homeless people intense in the city.

1:37:37We know that you are looking for solutions.

1:37:39This is not the right tool or the right time.

1:37:42A bylaw is a quick fix with long-term pain and consequences, both for the city and the unsheltered population.

1:37:49You are better off to do the right thing and not pass a bylaw.

1:37:53Guelph is and has always been a progressive community that has shown leadership and social issues.

1:38:00We want to be known as a solution-focused community, not a community that passed laws to shut things down.

1:38:08Rather a community that is responsive, cost-effective, compassionate and smart.

1:38:14If you ask us what should you do, we'll say don't pass a bylaw.

1:38:20Almost anything else you could do would be better.

1:38:25Great. Thank you. I have Councillor Allt with the question first and then Councillor Buston.

1:38:32Thank you very much. I'm there.

1:38:34I'm very concerned about the constitutionality of this, but you raised an issue for me upon which I am very unclear.

1:38:42You made reference to Hamilton and I was uncertain of what challenges there might be there,

1:38:47but you seem to be familiar with something that might be occurring with reference to Hamilton.

1:38:51I was wondering if you could expand upon that.

1:38:54certain of what challenges there might be there, but you seem to be familiar with something that

1:38:59might be occurring with reference to Hamilton. I was wondering if you could expand upon that.

1:39:05So Hamilton does have the encampment protocol, but in the background,

1:39:08there are litigations been going on and off for years. So once you

1:39:13go into the bylaw process, you invite litigation. And I can tell you that this is

1:39:19issue that is ripe for challenge right now. The clinic system, which our clinic is part of,

1:39:26is very interested in this issue. As you know, the Waterloo Clinic, our sister clinic, led the

1:39:32challenge at Waterloo. The Kingston Clinic led the challenge in Kingston, and the Guelph Clinic

1:39:38would likely lead the challenge in Guelph. So I'm concerned about this idea of having a bylaw and

1:39:44putting it in the desk, because as soon as this bylaw is enforced, it will invite a challenge.

1:39:51And the issue is, we know the ticketing doesn't work. So what does that mean really? And what

1:39:55hasn't been said this morning is it really means enforcement. I mean, if you're going to use this

1:39:59bylaw, presumably, you're going to enforce. And as soon as that enforcement occurs, charter

1:40:05challenges are at stake. And there will be charter consequences. And there are so, as I said,

1:40:11there's so many other things that you can do. This bylaw doesn't belong here, as your CAO said.

1:40:17There are so many things upstream that you can do that the city can do. I understand the

1:40:21jurisdictional issues between the county and the city. We're fully versed in that. But there's

1:40:25so many things the city can do upstream. And if you want your bylaw at the end, that's another

1:40:31discussion. Okay. So I don't agree with the fact that there's nothing you can do right now to fix

1:40:37the problem. And you need the bylaw to fix the problem. There are a lot of things you can do

1:40:40right now to fix the problem. I won't get into what enforcement things you could do right now

1:40:44to fix the problem. That's not my job to tell you. But what I can say is there are other ways

1:40:48and better ways to fix the problem. We see that happening. We see that with the intervention in

1:40:54terms of, you know, the people who are in the mini encampment now being offered alternatives.

1:41:00The issue is, even if you have enough shelter spaces, are they truly accessible? Which means,

1:41:05do they really meet the human rights need of that person that you're seeking to shelter? And that's

1:41:09going to take a case by case approach. It's not going to take a bylaw enforcement officer discussing

1:41:14where you actually can go. And in terms of the being 100 spaces, I have to tell you, I'm a lawyer.

1:41:20I used to be a municipal lawyer. I've read this bylaw from the beginning to the end. And a lot of

1:41:26respect to your, your, your in house council, I wouldn't be able to tell someone where they could

1:41:30go. We all know Guelph is laced with rivers and railroad tracks and fountains and playgrounds.

1:41:39And when you get the minimum distance separations and you get the numbers that are permitted in the

1:41:43clusters, I honestly couldn't tell you where you could shelter. That's why I said, if you're going to,

1:41:49you know, you maybe give a map because I can't figure this out. I wouldn't be able to advise a

1:41:53client as to where they could possibly put up a tent. And everyone who's camped knows,

1:41:57you don't put pegs in the ground, your 10s going to blow away. So this isn't the way to go. Sorry,

1:42:04that was an answer to a question I probably well exceed in my permission permissible time.

1:42:08No, no, it's okay. Councillor Alstall has the floor and that's I can go to Councillor Boussatill.

1:42:14Uh, Councillor Allt, I guess you're done. Thank you very much. You had a problem there.

1:42:24Mayor Guthrie, I think I'm back. Barely. We're going to pause you and we're going to go to

1:42:35Councillor Boussatill. Okay. Yep. Go ahead and I'll try to go back to Phil. Thank you very much for

1:42:40the delegation there, Anthea. And you kind of ended your piece on there just about, I wanted to pick

1:42:46up on the Hamilton, the bylaw versus the protocol. And I think we all want to mitigate. And at the

1:42:52end of the day, we all want to live together and have that mutual learning opportunity. Are you

1:42:56aware of Hamilton in developing the protocol did engagement of encampment residents and had that

1:43:03mutual learning in conversation? I think that's what's going on. So I think very much people who

1:43:09live in encampments need to be consulted because that goes to the heart of the issue of what is

1:43:14accessible and what are the needs and why are you choosing to shelter outside and why is it that you

1:43:21don't have any alternatives? And we saw that in the case law. I mean, the case law beautifully

1:43:26describes situations that are familiar to all of us. So if we want an anecdote, you can just read

1:43:30the Waterloo decision as to particular circumstances as to why people cannot use the shelter system.

1:43:37So that's what the justice was talking about. Truly accessible shelter spaces. But when I say that

1:43:44the questions are open, they are live. There is nothing more live right now than the issue of

1:43:49charter and unsheltered people and really don't think you should wait in there because it is

1:43:54evolving situation. Thank you. And if I could, Councillor Caron asked a good question earlier.

1:44:00If you were given a time period to have meaningful mutual learning engagement within

1:44:05chem and residents that is recommended in the final report and also raised in the October 2023

1:44:12report from the Human Rights Commission, how long is that? Is it 120 days? Is it what does that look

1:44:18like from your experience at the grassroots? Thank you. With respect, it doesn't lead to the

1:44:23passing of a bylaw. So I think it's an ongoing thing that talks about what are the solutions that

1:44:28are possible. I mean, we really have compared to other municipalities a very mini encampment situation.

1:44:35I appreciate that it's very painful for people who are experiencing it, but it is a solvable

1:44:39problem on the street. It is a solvable problem in terms of having a supervised encampment,

1:44:47having time homes, having options for people to access. These are the stories I hear from my clients

1:44:52as to why it doesn't work to go to the shelter. So I think that the consultation has to be

1:45:01ongoing. I wouldn't say 120 days. I'd say just continue, but don't do it with a view to passing

1:45:07a bylaw at the end of the consultation. Thank you. Through the mayor, thank you. Thank you.

1:45:11Councillor Downer. Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, so I want to go back to

1:45:17Councillor Allt's original question regarding the Hamilton protocol, but you didn't answer that it

1:45:23was passed in August of 23. You said whether there's been litigation going on for years. Has

1:45:29that been challenged by one of your sister organizations, the protocol from August, 28, 23?

1:45:36So my understanding is that the challenge is ongoing in Hamilton and they're at a period

1:45:41where they're negotiating and part of that negotiating is the development of the protocol.

1:45:45So if you want to take that by analogy as to what would be a good idea for Guelph,

1:45:49it would be to maybe enhance your protocol, have those consultations, and then consider if you

1:45:56need a bylaw afterwards. But I would hope at that point you've developed other solutions because

1:46:02when you look at the water, I'm sorry, I'm not trying to avoid the question, but when you look at

1:46:05the Waterloo decision, it talks about all the things that the Waterloo did. It said you did this,

1:46:09you did this, you did this, you did this, and then you tried to use your bylaw to enforce.

1:46:14We haven't done those things. We need to do those things first before you want to get to a

1:46:19point where you're defending the fact that you took enforcement action. And consider that the

1:46:23region of Waterloo said we're not going to bring this to the Court of Appeal. We're instead going

1:46:27to do things to remediate the issue. I really think that taking a legislative approach is going

1:46:35to attract too much negative attention and negative litigation. Okay, thank you. Is there any? Councillor

1:46:44Guller? Thank you, Your Worship. Thank you for your presentation. I had one question about

1:46:51something that you said about threatening the means of survival. And we heard that from many of the

1:46:56letters. I was just hoping that you could tell us a little bit more when we're thinking about saying

1:47:01it's okay to be in this park or parkette, but not in this square. How does that threaten

1:47:08someone's means of survival? There's so much that goes into that. So people need to be near their

1:47:14services. They need to be near their people. They need to be safe. Under the terms of the bylaw,

1:47:20even if you could put a tent up, you're not allowed to peg it into the ground. There are no

1:47:26washroom facilities to use. There's no means to heat your tent because it says it has to be used

1:47:32in accordance with the instruction manual. All of your belongings have to be inside of your tent.

1:47:37This threatens survival because it does not allow someone to actually live there. So a structured

1:47:47encampment site gives you much more security. It gives you access to washrooms, to showers,

1:47:53to storage, to the things you need, to the supports you need. The same with tiny homes.

1:47:58It's not a safe thing to live in tents. People do it because they don't have any alternatives.

1:48:05So to say we're passing a bylaw to make it okay for people to camp in certain places and that's

1:48:10going to enhance their safety is not true. Solving the problem will enhance their safety.

1:48:17Thank you very much. Thank you, worship. Councillor Chew.

1:48:19Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor, to Ms. Milgan. Thank you for your delegation.

1:48:27I just wanted to make it clear. Did you say that your clinic would essentially

1:48:36likely challenge this bylaw if it were passed? I guess that's not a very good thing to say.

1:48:43So but yes, I did. In the sense that if there is enforcement that we believe violates the charter

1:48:50and we have someone who is willing to to walk that walk with us, we will test it to see whether

1:48:59it violates not only section seven of this charter but also section 15 of the charter because as I

1:49:04said this is an evolving issue. So yes, and if we can't do it alone, there are other clinics

1:49:09that are ready to step in and help us do it because this issue is so important to people who

1:49:16support the unsheltered community that it will be challenged. It will not sit in a drawer if it's

1:49:23used and it's ed if it's enforced. Okay, and just a quick follow-up. Like in my mind, I view the

1:49:33bylaw from an operational perspective as well and its efficacy and just the timeline of it being rolled

1:49:41out. I wonder is would you consider how our enforcement officials use this as a tool in

1:49:53their pocket on a case-by-case basis? Like is that something that you would consider as well?

1:50:00Like what are the officers actually doing? Because our city staff have told us that this is something

1:50:06that they not want to use but it's there if necessary. And I don't think bylaw is the right

1:50:14place to enforce and I don't even think bylaw are the right ones to educate and I do think it

1:50:19takes resources away from bylaw doing other things that are important to people in the city. So I don't

1:50:24think bylaw is the way to go. I may not have answered your question. But I think there has to

1:50:32be an acknowledgement that there are nuanced situations that we as a city and as a corporation

1:50:39we have to deal with from an operational lens. I think we all here like at a high level we want

1:50:46the best for our for everybody. We want to take that human rights-based approach in all of our

1:50:55discourse. But we also have an operational responsibility that we need to uphold.

1:51:02So I think I just wanted to clarify if there is room for conversation on that with you in private

1:51:12and with you as representative of your clinic. Absolutely and I think the stakeholders will

1:51:17help you with those operational needs. I think they're eager to help you with those operational

1:51:20needs. I think that people want to help solve this problem not using bylaw. And I do have concerns

1:51:25when we talk about bylaw exercising discretion because people's charter rights don't depend on

1:51:30discretion. They depend on rights. And that gives me a concern where you set up a structure that

1:51:35relies on enforcement and discretion. Because really that's not the road you want to go down.

1:51:39You want to go down the solving the problem road. And so visit individually case by case

1:51:44with a support worker. Find out what that person needs. House them appropriately. We're developing

1:51:48a range of housing responses in Guelph. Wonderful work that's been done. Wonderful work done by

1:51:53the city in terms of supportive housing. Incredible investments. Let's keep going. Let's look at the

1:51:59range of housing options like the like a supervised consumption site like a better tense city and

1:52:06say there are some people that this suits better. And that's how you deal with the operational issues

1:52:11that come out of having tents in places you don't want them. Okay. And just one last question.

1:52:16Do you believe that we as a city are working holistically with our partners on the ground to

1:52:23make those realities possibility? So you talked about some of the options upstream. Do you feel

1:52:30like we're doing everything that we can? Not yet. But I think your heart is there. I think you can do

1:52:35everything that you can and not pass this bylaw. I think I believe everything that the mayor said

1:52:41that you believe in providing solutions that you care. And what I'm saying is this isn't the right

1:52:47approach to reflect the fact that you care and your solution based. Okay. Thank you so much. Thank

1:52:56you for your delegation. Thank you. Janice Folk Dawson is up next from Cupid. And then Kevin

1:53:10Bowman or Kevin are you here? Oh, okay. Yeah, you're in the wings. Go ahead. I'm actually not

1:53:16Janice Folk Dawson. Unfortunately, she had a death in her circle of friends and was not able to be

1:53:22here today. So if it's permissible, I can read her comments. If not, I can submit them another way.

1:53:28No, it's okay. You've made the effort to be here and under the circumstances with the death in the

1:53:34we fully appreciate that. We just need if it's okay, we just need for the record your full name.

1:53:39Sure. Just so we can document in the minutes and then you can read her submission. Okay. My name

1:53:45is Bonnie Powell. P O W E L L. Thank you. Good morning. My name is Janice Folk Dawson, which it's

1:53:52not my pronouns are she and her. I am a settler, a 38 year resident of Guelph and the special

1:53:58assistant to the Cupid Ontario executive. Cupid is the largest public sector union in Canada.

1:54:04We represent municipal health care, social services and education workers in communities

1:54:10across the province, including Guelph. I want to begin by thanking counselors Phil Alt,

1:54:15Aaron, Kate and Linda Bucitil for their thoughtfulness in attempting to find solutions.

1:54:21I also applaud all the community folks and organizations who are working daily on the

1:54:26street, supplying meals and clothing to those who need. And a huge thank you to the community health

1:54:32folks for providing safe injection sites. All of these people are taking concrete steps to address

1:54:38the homelessness crisis. I also want to acknowledge that Mayor Guthrie has asked staff to prepare

1:54:43report on all land assets and to develop a plan around structured encampments, two good resources

1:54:49to inform any decisions around encampments. Our society and our city council have a responsibility

1:54:55to ensure that all individuals, regardless of their living conditions, are afforded basic human

1:55:01rights. All governments, including this city council, must recognize residents of homeless

1:55:06encampments as right holders. All actions must uphold human rights and human dignity for the

1:55:12residents of the encampments. Homelessness is a complex issue that affects our whole community

1:55:18and it is critical that we find safe and humane ways to provide shelter for those who are experiencing

1:55:23homelessness on the streets of Guelph tonight, tomorrow night and for the foreseeable future.

1:55:29We can achieve this through the creation of encampments that are safe and in line with human

1:55:33rights standards. One of the overreaching principles for safe encampments is meaningful

1:55:39engagement and effective participation of homeless encampment residents. We must respect

1:55:45residents autonomy, dignity, agency and self-determination. City council, you have the ability and obligation

1:55:53to uphold human rights by prohibiting forced evictions of campments, exploring all viable

1:55:58alternatives to eviction and you must ensure that all relocation are human rights compliance.

1:56:05City council's compliance with international human rights law requires providing access to safe

1:56:11and clean drinking water, access to hygiene and sanitation facilities, resources and support

1:56:17to ensure fire safety, waste management systems, social supports and services and guarantee of

1:56:24personal safety of residents, facilities and resources that support food safety, resources to

1:56:30support harm reduction and rodent and pest prevention. This proposed by-law does not achieve or

1:56:36accomplish any of these human rights standards. We understand that our municipality like many

1:56:42municipalities did not have the capacity and resources to ensure unhoused people have affordable,

1:56:47secure and dignified housing and that significant support and intervention from provincial and

1:56:52federal governments is required. But this does not mean that we can violate anyone's human rights

1:56:58and impose restrictions that are inhumane and should, this should and will be challenged.

1:57:04I urge city council to engage with the national working group on homeless encampments

1:57:08which has a municipal engagement guidance document. I would also recommend investigating the document

1:57:14a national special rapporteur on the right to adequate housing by Lillani Farha and Caitlyn

1:57:19Schwann, lead researchers for the UN special rapporteur on the right to adequate housing.

1:57:25It is important that we also involve on the ground workers, members of QP and Opsu who provide

1:57:30services to these encampments. Workers need to be involved in the initial and ongoing discussions

1:57:35that will be required to ensure safety and sustainability. It is imperative that all workers

1:57:40who support the encampments and folks surviving on the street receive training to be able to do

1:57:45this critical work and provide the care that is needed including directing folks to the

1:57:49appropriate services that they require. We must engage with community partners and labor

1:57:54to advocate to provincial and federal levels of government for funding.

1:57:59In closing, I want to leave two points. First, I suggest a possible location for an encampment

1:58:04is the Royal City Park along the river as it could provide some of the essential services

1:58:08because of some infrastructure already in place that is needed for safe community including being

1:58:13within walking distance to downtown. Second, well-received 21.4 million over three years

1:58:19for the Housing Acceleration Fund. How can we resource the encampment from these funds?

1:58:24Thank you all for listening. Thank you very much. You did uh you did Janice well with your

1:58:30if you're reading. So I doubt there's some follow-up questions because it was just

1:58:35someone else reading on behalf of someone else but is there any? No. Okay thank you for being

1:58:40with us. Thank you. Yeah and all the best to Janice. Kevin Bowman is next. Greg Dorval is

1:58:47in the wings as Greg here. Okay front row and then I just want to give everyone a heads up.

1:58:57Probably going to do you know a good you know maybe five to eight more and and then and then we

1:59:06are going to take a recess okay and then we'll come right back at it. So I'm sorry Kevin go right

1:59:11ahead. Thank you very much for the opportunity to speak. I had some longer remarks but I think some

1:59:18of the previous speakers were more eloquent than me so I'm just going to say ditto to Morgan and

1:59:22the representative of the legal clinic. I apologize I missed her name and Janice Folk Dawson's comments

1:59:28so double down on all those. I also just wanted to say based on some online conversations and

1:59:36community conversations I've had there seems to be some confusion about where those of us that are

1:59:40speaking against the bylaw are coming from. None of us are in favor of encampments as like a long

1:59:47term solution. We don't want tent cities that's not what we're advocating for. What we're saying is

1:59:53until there's a better solution leave these people who are just trying to survive alone. If you're not

1:59:58helping them stop whatever you're doing because if it's not helping it's hurting. I know that's not

2:00:05your intention. You're not trying to hurt these people but that is the impact that's happening.

2:00:12So stop. The three recommendations that staff have put in front of you one of them is to adopt

2:00:18the bylaw. I think you've heard already from a legal professional why that's a bad idea.

2:00:24The other two fantastic go for it. The staff report mentioned that municipalities across Ontario

2:00:31were spending I think it was 3.8 billion dollars on things that are actually the jurisdiction of

2:00:37other levels of government. So that tells me two things. One we can and do spend money on things

2:00:42that are not our jurisdiction and two we should be entitled to some kind of recompense for that

2:00:49should we not. So I would love to see Guelph join with other municipalities and start sending

2:00:55invoices to the appropriate ministries. Sue them if you have to go for it. In the meantime

2:01:02spend the money to save lives and just keep sending bills to those ministries.

2:01:08And I'll stop there. Thanks. Thank you Kevin. And just before you run away any questions for Kevin?

2:01:16No run away. Perfect. Greg Dorval you are next my friend and then Mario Gonzalez

2:01:25put my glasses on. Is Mario here? Mario? Okay I'll just put that. And then on behalf of the

2:01:40county of Wellington, Sue Dyson will be up next then after you Greg. Go right ahead Greg.

2:01:46I feel very privileged and humbled to stand here right now in this moment. I'm standing here

2:02:27on the shoulders of giants. They're my brothers and sisters out there.

2:02:39Who are your shoulders I'm standing on? I stand on their shoulders only because

2:02:44they've lent me some strength, some of their strength to be here today. They've lent me

2:02:50some of their strength for longer than they know for well over a year now. A lot of them

2:03:02are very angry and struggle for many reasons to express that anger in a way that

2:03:13can breed constructive solutions, productive solutions. I feel like I can help with that.

2:03:31That's what I've been trying to do. There's a lot of anger out there. Some of it is mine. I share that.

2:03:41I'm trying as best I can to channel that including my own

2:03:47and express it with love for everyone here. I stand here as both an ambassador for my community,

2:04:00my people, my brothers and sisters, also for the broader community of Guelph. An ambassador means

2:04:09that I represent a certain demographic within our community, but I'm here as an ambassador

2:04:22to keep the conversations going, to help everyone heal, to help. I don't want to feel sickened

2:04:35when I read shit like this. I'm here as an ambassador expressing a lot of emotion through love.

2:04:51I'm here, Cam. I was kind of reminded this morning of something. It always confused me why

2:05:00everyone addresses council like in the formality is through you. It occurred to me this morning that

2:05:07me here standing on the shoulders of giants surrounded by far too many graves of the fallen.

2:05:17That gives me one privilege I have additionally now is

2:05:27representing that means that the conversation can at least start for now to go through me

2:05:34out to the city through you with respect. I stand here as an activist. You heard the activist in

2:05:49me earlier. Thank you for not throwing me and others out. I appreciate that. I respect that

2:05:57because that shows me that you're here to listen. You care. I was telling Corey that I had a

2:06:08bio out there as we headed out for a break. I know it's coming. I love that I hear more and more

2:06:17conversations at least. Let's practice noticing when there's conflict in those conversations.

2:06:26Let's practice resolving that conflict in a healthier way by keeping the conversation

2:06:35itself going. That's why I'm here. The activist in me, I don't give a shit what you write in here.

2:06:44I don't give a shit what passes. I will continue helping my friends pick spots that help them

2:06:54best survive each night. Thank you. Great. Thank you. It looks like before you go away I have a

2:07:00question from Councillor Busuttil. First I want to acknowledge and thank you Greg for staying

2:07:07and for stepping up to the mic. That takes a great deal of courage to come into our culture

2:07:13and environment here. I want to acknowledge that and thank you for that. You mentioned a couple

2:07:18of times about keeping the conversation going. The importance of that. Italian, lots of talking,

2:07:26always lots and lots of talking. What does that look like for you in those many roles that you

2:07:31talked about like activist and so on? What does that mean? What does that look like?

2:07:37It's like conversation is a one form that we have as humans to express energy outwards.

2:07:51It also gives us the capacity to connect with others, which can be a very healthy thing,

2:08:00and to understand others' perspectives. If we seek those out through conversations

2:08:09and we make the health of the community the priority. I mean health beyond not just physical

2:08:16health, mental health. How can we measure the health of our community? I wonder that.

2:08:32The more bylaws that we put in place, to me that's a measure of the decay of our community more

2:08:41than it is the strengthening of our community. I love to wonder why. Let's keep the conversations

2:08:55going. Let's start with this now. This is great. Thank you so much to everyone.

2:09:04Even as people were saying things that I could feel emotional and triggering inside me.

2:09:09In 11 days, all of the people that came together and put so much

2:09:17thoughtful, caring effort, energy into coming up with something that

2:09:25hated or loved it or whatever. Thank you for trying because you care. I care too. I don't want

2:09:36my friend to be stored and vandalized. I don't want her to feel unsafe as a Black member of our

2:09:43community or as a member of our community at all. I hate that they crush me when I heard from her

2:09:54that her son was very, very much felt targeted by police as a Black member of our community.

2:10:02That crushes me. Thank you very much. You get the gist of my answer. Also, thank you for

2:10:16leading with. You led with the shows that you understand the importance of

2:10:27the way I feel I'm here. Reading with that was a great touch. Thank you. Thank you very much.

2:10:35Any other questions? I'm just looking around right now and the screens here. No, thank you very much.

2:10:39Great. You're very welcome. Thank you. It's Mario here. Did Mario end up coming? Okay.

2:10:50So, on behalf of the county of Wellington, we have Sue Dason is here. Thank you for waiting, Sue.

2:11:03And go right ahead. Thank you. Good morning, your worship and city councillors. My name is Sue Dason.

2:11:12I'm a solicitor for the county of Wellington. The warden and senior management had a previous

2:11:18meeting and they could not make it in and they send their regrets and they also sent me to get

2:11:24the message that they wanted across. The county owns lands in the city of Guelph and a lot of the

2:11:32lands are in downtown Guelph. The county has many of the same concerns that the city has with respect

2:11:40to city lands and the county would like to see some of the measures that the city is proposing

2:11:52for the protection of persons and to promote safe use and enjoyment of city lands applied to county

2:11:58lands. So, with this in mind, the county would respectfully ask you to consider including

2:12:07lands owned by the county of Wellington in the public space use bylaw. This would result in the

2:12:17bylaw if it is passed to include county lands being used in the same manner for county lands as it is

2:12:26being proposed for city lands with the focus being safe use and enjoyment of public lands.

2:12:34Thank you. Great. Thank you, Councillor Busetil. Thank you. Welcome. And through the mayor,

2:12:42just a quick question. I know somewhere here in all this paper, I thought it was referenced to

2:12:48once this has passed some kind of a conversation with the county, then school boards and other

2:12:53public land holders in the community. It's either in the bylaw or in the staff report. Did you see

2:12:59that in there? I don't recall seeing that. I do recall discussions about consultation with

2:13:09partners. Okay. Thank you. I'm pretty sure I saw it. I don't know if I highlighted it, but thank you.

2:13:16Thank you. Go ahead, Councillor Coller. And then, Councillor Allt after you. Thank you. And through

2:13:24your worship, thank you for the presentation. Just so that I'm clear on this, is the request also that

2:13:32the county lands be considered as permissible spaces where we would allow incumbents to be set up?

2:13:40To that end, to the extent that the bylaw does permit the use, yes, the county would be

2:13:48in compliance with those requirements. Okay. Thank you very much. Thank you, Worship.

2:13:55Ault then, O'Rourke. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Through you to the delegate.

2:14:05As I was listening, I thought of a couple of nuances associated with this. And so,

2:14:10Ms. Dason, on behalf of the county, I don't know whether you can answer this, but

2:14:16it's very convenient in this context we need to consider the county as a private landholder,

2:14:21similarly to what I would think we would have to consider both the province and the federal

2:14:25government. And hence, this bylaw would not apply. I was wondering if you could please comment.

2:14:35Councillor Allt, I think at this point I would not be able to comment on the question being posed.

2:14:44I agree with you that the county would be a private owner of lands within the city of Guelph,

2:14:52having said that it is the municipality and the lands that it does own would, to a certain extent,

2:14:59be public space. Thank you. And O'Rourke, please. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Thanks for being here,

2:15:11Ms. Dason. So notwithstanding all the work the county does in terms of social services provision,

2:15:17including housing, so is it the county's position that you are able to assert your jurisdiction

2:15:25over lands owned by the county to ensure safe use, reduced liability, and to maintain your operations?

2:15:33I'm not quite clear what your question is, Councillor. So is it the county's position that

2:15:40a bylaw like this one is permissible because they are lands owned by the county and that you have

2:15:47jurisdiction over them and that you're trying to maintain the operation on those lands, the safe

2:15:52use of those lands for all who are using it, depending on the time period, and to address

2:15:58liability concerns? Are those some of the reasons why the county would support the bylaw?

2:16:03I think the county supports the bylaw and requests to be included for its lands to be

2:16:10included as public lands within the bylaw for the simple reason that the county is,

2:16:16the county's properties exist in the city of Guelph. Okay. Thanks. Great. I see no more questions.

2:16:28So thank you very much. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Mayor. Thank you, Councillor.

2:16:34Scott, you're now. Scott here. Scott, are you here? Sorry, I just didn't have my glasses on. No. Okay.

2:16:48What about Emma, a dual? Emma here. Okay, Emma, thank you. Come on down.

2:16:59And Horine Hassan is going to be joining us by phone after you, Emma. Thank you very much

2:17:08for delegating. Go right ahead. Good morning. I'm Emma Dewell and I'm owner of a retail business

2:17:16in on Quebec Street. Well, which fan yarns is a destination store and a great number of our

2:17:21customers make a point to come to Guelph for our products and also loss of Guelph residents

2:17:27when the within the craft community, seeker products and knowledge. But their first question

2:17:33when they get there is what is going on down there. Some of the customers have said they're

2:17:41scared to come downtown. And some say this will be the last time unless things change downtown.

2:17:54Since opening one year ago, working six days a week, I have a front row seat to the going ons

2:18:00downtown and the drug culture, especially on Quebec Street. I've been asked by customers many

2:18:09times to walk them to their cars because they are scared. When the first tent went up in the

2:18:16center square, I approached the individual that erected the tent and asked what was he doing.

2:18:23And they had said they were evicted because their place had been sold. I asked if they'd received

2:18:30money for leaving the residents and they said yes. I'd asked why didn't they use the money to find a

2:18:35new housing? They said they use the money for drugs. I've concerns with the illegal activities that

2:18:41are going on in these tents. They also had said that they wanted to make a point to the city that

2:18:46there is nowhere to live. I had to say to them, I had said to them they should go to the council

2:18:51meeting and make their point there. The following days I saw more tents being set up. The second

2:18:57tent that I saw set up was a gentleman that is known to deal drugs downtown with this tent

2:19:05located downtown basically has his own free storefront to sell the illegal drugs out of.

2:19:14Over the past year, I've witnessed daily visits from the Guelph police, ambulance picking up

2:19:19overdosed individuals, firefighters putting out fires out in the square, drug deals going down,

2:19:25and violent altercations. Community as a whole avoid shopping downtown Guelph because the going

2:19:32ons and the drug use and all the behavior that goes along with it. My numbers have dropped since the

2:19:38tents have gone up with a drop in knit night which is on an evening and I'm sorry just missed that

2:19:46because the people are scared to come out downtown at night. I'm thankful that the police have started

2:19:52to come by to make sure that people feel safe to go to their cars after they leave. I watch people

2:20:00cross the road to escape and avoid what they see as a threat in which internal businesses lose potential

2:20:08sales are enclosing their doors. I've invested my time and money into Guelph and I feel that the

2:20:14city of Guelph is not doing their part to keep the downtown safe and inviting environment.

2:20:19As a business owner, I want downtown Guelph to thrive and there has to be laws put in place and

2:20:26enforced so it is safe for everyone. I agree with the new bylaw, things need to change in Guelph.

2:20:36Great, thank you very much for your delegation and I have a question from Councillor O'Rourke, please.

2:20:42Thanks Mayor Guthrie, through you to Ms. Duel, just a quick question. So the bylaw is presented

2:20:48would still permit encampments sort of across from the library or Royal City Park, so there would

2:20:53still be encampments downtown, but do you think that that would be helpful? So they'll still,

2:21:00they'll still be able to tent there. Do you think that would help or do you think that would be the

2:21:05same? I think it would be the same, I think location is the biggest thing. Like where you're

2:21:10saying across from the library, I actually see there's a daycare center that actually brings

2:21:14the kids over to that grassy area to play. If there's, it's if it's full of tents, where are they

2:21:20going to play? I see like canisters being on their side which is explosive devices where the other

2:21:27tents are, families are walking down there to go shopping, they're taking their kids to dance less,

2:21:33it's not a safe space, it's not community safe for anyone. Okay, so through you Mayor Guthrie,

2:21:42I'm just wondering though whether you think it's an improvement?

2:21:47No, I think that it needs to be not downtown. I don't think it needs to be in public spaces

2:21:54that are sidewalks, planting gardens. Okay, great, yeah, thank you. Okay, yep, there's no more

2:22:06questions, so thank you very much for your delegation. Horeen Hassan by phone, is the clerks have

2:22:18Horeen? Okay, Horeen, it's Mayor Guthrie, can you hear me okay? And just in case you can,

2:22:26you just have to hit star then six on your phone to unmute. Again, Horeen, it's Mayor Guthrie,

2:22:40just hit star six on your phone and that will unmute you. You are, we can hear you perfectly,

2:22:48thank you very much. You have up to five minutes as well for your delegation if you need it, so go

2:22:54right ahead. Awesome, thank you. Hi there, I'm Horeen, a Guelph community member living

2:23:01downtown Guelph. I'm deeply concerned about this bylaw for all the various reasons that others

2:23:09that are also in opposition have already stated. I walk past in the campments very often and I'm

2:23:15always worried if folks are warm enough and this past winter has been a really brutal one and many

2:23:22are struggling to stay warm. We need real solutions and I'm disappointed into the council for even

2:23:29entertaining this very problematic bylaw that does nothing to ensure the safety of our unhoused

2:23:36neighbors but rather it makes their lives so much more difficult. Displacing under house

2:23:44community members and creating overly restrictive rules on how they can and cannot exist in our

2:23:51community is a human rights violation. The public space use bylaw is an explicit attack on Guelph

2:23:58rights living in poverty. It is also concerning that the city of Guelph has opted to restrict

2:24:04public engagement and consultation around this bylaw that will actually harm so many people.

2:24:11When we talk about safety, are we really talking about safety or are we talking about discomfort

2:24:18and who's safety is being prioritized and why are the most vulnerable people in our community having

2:24:25to pay the price. Discussing and entertaining this bylaw right after the housing symposium that you

2:24:31all have just attended also kind of feels like a slap in the face. You've just spent time talking

2:24:37about these issues. How can council then turn around and entertain a bylaw that criminalizes

2:24:43those that are experiencing poverty. We could actually be using our time to organize around

2:24:49actual solutions but here we are talking about this bylaw that will only cause more harm.

2:24:57I'm calling on Guelph City Councilors to reject this proposed bylaw and instead work to better

2:25:04understand the immediate and long-term needs of the under house community members in Guelph

2:25:09and to offer immediate and long-term solutions that are dignified. Thank you.

2:25:17And thank you for calling in Harine. We appreciate that. I'm looking around the room and I have

2:25:23councillor Chew as a question so stay on the line for a second. Thank you through you Mayor Guthrie.

2:25:31Maureen, thank you. It's Horine, right? Okay. Thank you for your delegation today.

2:25:38You made a pretty big assertion on our bylaw and that it's a quote-unquote attack on the homeless.

2:25:47I think just listening to the delegates and even the one prior, are there specific provisions in

2:25:53the bylaw in which you feel like it's contrary to what we're trying to do here? Because again,

2:26:02we at the city, we have to look at things from an operational lens and there are specific

2:26:08cases in which we do have a responsibility to evaluate but on the holistic lens, I think we're

2:26:16all on the same page. Yeah, so I'm just curious, what are the specific provisions in this bylaw

2:26:22that you are not in favor of? I would honestly say a lot of the restrictions and prohibitions and I

2:26:32know that there was a lawyer that spoke earlier too that talked about this is not the right approach

2:26:38and many others prior to me have mentioned that like you can't be like this bylaw does not help

2:26:45anybody and you're not offering real solutions. A lot of the under house community members themselves

2:26:53feel that this is an attack and so I am voicing their interests as well. They feel that this is an

2:27:03attack, their survival is at risk. Those that are the tents that are set up in St. George's Square,

2:27:11they will be displaced in the daytime if this bylaw does pass and in the downtown core where

2:27:20a lot of these tents are set up, they're set up in proximity to services that they're very much

2:27:25reliant on and displacing them and restricting in how they exist in this community is an attack

2:27:35on them and it does not actually support them. So yeah, I would advise actually being in consultation

2:27:44with those folks and talking to them and talking about what their needs are immediate and long term

2:27:50and what could actually better the situation for them and make them feel safe and supported.

2:28:01Yeah, just a quick follow-up, thank you for that. So you mentioned St. George's Square as an example.

2:28:08Does it change your opinion knowing that there are folks that have access to shelter spaces?

2:28:14Because we're not, I think this is a good example, if we can be candid here.

2:28:21There's a situation where there are folks that have been offered repeatedly spaces to live indoors.

2:28:30So does that change your opinion if you have that understanding?

2:28:36Yeah, no, absolutely not. It does not change my opinion. There are many reasons why folks

2:28:43might not actually be able to use the shelter beds or why they don't feel safe or that their

2:28:50needs are met in those shelters and there's also not enough beds, not enough space for these people

2:28:57and I feel like what's missing here is consultation with the under house community members.

2:29:05There's a lot of questions that I wouldn't be able to answer on behalf of them but there are people

2:29:12that are being left out when it comes to having public engagement around this issue.

2:29:20So yeah, there needs to be more consultation particularly with the under house community

2:29:27members that you are speaking of right now. Okay, I just want to drill down on one more

2:29:35specific if I can, if I may. Does it change your opinion if you know that some of these

2:29:42individuals have access to shelter space and they are using the shelter beds?

2:29:50No, it does not change my opinion.

2:29:54Okay, thank you so much. Okay, there's no further questions. Thanks for hanging with us and answering

2:30:02those questions. We appreciate it. Let's see here by video Arlene Slocum is going to join us and then

2:30:15Amelia Meister is going to also join us by video. Arlene, we do see you and you just need to unmute

2:30:26and you just did so you have up to five minutes if you need it. Go right ahead. Okay, thank you.

2:30:32So my name is Arlene Slocum and I was born and raised in Guelph and I've lived my whole life in

2:30:36the Guelph area. This is my place of work and my community and I care about all members of this

2:30:41community. I want to bring up the report that Councillor O'Rourke mentioned in her questions

2:30:46and present some of the content they're in. In this report that came out yesterday, Marie Josée

2:30:51Houl, a federal housing advocate, issued a dire call to action for those who are living with her.

2:30:56She called this a life and death crisis for many and sadly death is a present and daily reality.

2:31:02That so many are choosing to live in encampments is a direct physical manifestation of how broken

2:31:07our housing and homelessness system is. Passing by-laws that remove this reality from our direct

2:31:13visibility in downtown locations is no solution. Yesterday's report says the expansion of homeless

2:31:19encampments across the country is a national human rights crisis that requires immediate action and

2:31:25coordination involving all levels of government. The report says that governments of all levels

2:31:30must ensure that homeless people have permanent housing as soon as possible and in the meantime

2:31:35authorities need to equip encampments with basic services such as clean water and garbage removal

2:31:41so residents can live in dignity. Encampments represent an effort by people who are on-house

2:31:46to claim their human rights and meet their most basic needs, the document says. Canada has the

2:31:51capacity to solve this crisis, what is lacking is sufficient political will, resources and coordination.

2:31:58Roul's message to cities was blunt as she called for an immediate end to all encampments and evictions.

2:32:04These are human rights violations, this approach will only endanger lives.

2:32:10Homeless people who are constantly displaced lose connection with family, friends and services.

2:32:15Their mental and physical health suffers, their overdose risk increases, they have less control

2:32:20over their lives and possessions. They are pushed into a relentless series of daily moves among

2:32:25streets, parks, underpasses where they are often alone and unsafe. This proposed by-law would only

2:32:31exacerbate this reality for these neighbors of ours. Yesterday's report also said that cities

2:32:37should ensure encampments have electricity, clean water, heat and sanitation services.

2:32:42In the absence of affordable accessible housing, people have the right to gather and live in

2:32:46encampments. Roul's report says, homelessness encampments can provide the community and security

2:32:53that some find lacking in emergency shelters and temporary placements. Your by-law restriction of

2:32:59five-tenths maximum does not seem congruent with the human rights approach with livable

2:33:03conditions designed with encampment members. There are safety risks in tent cities and

2:33:09intent encampments, Roul said, but dismantling them and proposing uncertain and limited alternatives

2:33:16pushes people further into the margins where they are more vulnerable. Instead of taking the time,

2:33:20energy and resources that have been dedicated to this rushed process, this council should be

2:33:25directing their time, energy and resources to real solutions and the upstream issues as the

2:33:30CAO mentioned earlier. This council instead should be pressing other levels of government for the

2:33:36support needed to meet the state of human right to housing that was enshrined in domestic law in 2019.

2:33:42In Roul's report yesterday, she asks the federal government for a national encampment plan that

2:33:46meets her calls to action by the end of August this year. It calls for an end to enforced

2:33:52evictions to encampments and to put in place alternatives that are designed following meaningful

2:33:58engagement with encampment residents. As far as I can see, there is no pressing need for this by-law

2:34:03to move ahead right now, certainly no need of March 1. We are in the winter months, moving home

2:34:08during this time is impractical and cruel. There are very serious concerns about the absolute lack

2:34:13of achieving even the minimum standards of consultation process in the development of this

2:34:18proposed by-law. I call on this council to wait for the national encampment plan in August

2:34:23before taking any further steps towards a by-law that would displace those in existing encampments.

2:34:29And after that, this council should then engage in the suggested six to 12 month community consultation

2:34:34process and to align with the joint plan with the county following the health and housing symposium.

2:34:41In the earlier presentation, I heard a commitment towards a human rights approach

2:34:44adopted by this council in October 2023, which includes finding solutions through design with

2:34:50those with lived experience. Forcing people to move is not a human rights approach. And as we

2:34:56have heard, could subject this council to litigation. Instead, we should be talking about how do we as

2:35:02a community provide heat access to clean drinking water, access to hygiene and sanitation for our

2:35:07neighbors and encampments as a short-term solution. Pushing this crisis out of sight

2:35:13might only serve to push it out of mind. Let's work towards real solution and do not pass this

2:35:17by-law now. Thank you. Thank you for your delegation Arlene. I have a few questions here,

2:35:25starting with Guller or Rourke and then Busatil I think. Thank you and through your worship.

2:35:31Thank you for the presentation Ms. Locom. I really appreciate it. One of the reasons why this

2:35:39council moved that by-law is the concern of safety that came up as part of a couple of fires that

2:35:44have happened in encampments. I heard you loud and clear saying that there is no need for this

2:35:50by-law but then that brings me back to the question of guidelines and guidance to prevent

2:35:57more fires and encampments. Could you speak to that a little bit? I mean I can to the degree

2:36:03that I am. I'm certainly no expert in that and I imagine there's a lot to be done to look to other

2:36:09communities and their protocols around what that could look like. I think that clearly we're talking

2:36:16about short, medium and long-term needs here and in the short term there needs to be as so many

2:36:25before me have said adequate and meaningful engagement with community members who have

2:36:31this lived experience to figure out what solutions could look like. We are not the only community

2:36:36that faces this and I'm sure there's resources by those much wiser than I on how to go about some

2:36:43safety protocols. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. Thank you worship.

2:36:48Oh Rourke and then Busatil please. Through you Mayor Guthrie to Ms. Locom. Thanks very much for

2:36:54your presentation. We have received a lot of email about this by-law and some of the

2:37:00correspondence says I would agree about the prohibition of encampments on sensitive environmental

2:37:07spaces so places near wellheads that type of thing. So I am wondering if you agree with those

2:37:14provisions that would ask people to go to places where they can be so that we are able to protect

2:37:21environmental or sensitive environmental spaces. Yeah so my answer to that would be not right now

2:37:28my answer to that would be these people this is these are their homes right now and why don't we

2:37:34do all the adequate research that we need to do first before asking people to move to a next

2:37:40temporary place. Why don't we just engage in the adequate meaningful consultation process and do not

2:37:48move people from their homes while that engagement is happening. I am an environmental advocate in

2:37:55this community most people know me that way and I think there are many more serious threats to our

2:38:00environment than some folks living rough along some of these sensitive areas. So through you

2:38:07Mayor Guthrie if I can just ask a supplemental again just out of curiosity so I think we've heard

2:38:12that county and the social services agencies are doing that work of trying to find permanent

2:38:18housing for people not just shelter spaces but permanent housing. So should we house the folks

2:38:25who are currently on near a wellhead for example once those people have moved through their own

2:38:32volition should the city not be able to prevent others from being there because we know it's a

2:38:38sensitive area right so I understand you're saying don't displace them twice don't displace folks to

2:38:44another temporary location but in general do you agree with the principle that the city should be able

2:38:51to protect some environmentally sensitive places? Yes in general I agree with that and I think it's

2:38:57the process that we are talking about I do not support yeah as you just mentioned multiple

2:39:03displacements in order to achieve that why don't we work with those communities work with community

2:39:09partners and stakeholders to identify good places safe places so real solutions real alternatives

2:39:18and then after that figure out ways to to ensure the safety of these sensitive

2:39:24areas as you described I think the one comes before the other not the other way around. Okay thanks

2:39:31thank you. Pusatil please. Thank you very much for your delegation and thank you for mentioning

2:39:37the human rights report that came out yesterday I know the mayor made reference that there is a

2:39:43meeting coming up with the mayor and councillor Downer at the end of the month to discuss this

2:39:49you know from my reading of the report I'm looking for you to just confirm for me throughout the

2:39:53report especially the calls to action at the municipal level you know around page 26. A call

2:40:00for meaningful engagement was that one of your takeaways in this as part of a fundamental part

2:40:07of a human rights process is meaningful engagement if you could just you know give me a read on

2:40:12that. Yeah absolutely and I think we're hearing that over and over and over again today that that is

2:40:19that must and should proceed any bylaw that this council wants to involve itself in meaningful

2:40:26engagement to work towards short medium and long-term solutions is what is missing in this

2:40:32and you know I was really grateful to hear the delegation of the the the lawyer who

2:40:39forgetting her name my apologies I think there was really some really important

2:40:44points that she had to make around the potential for litigation of this council

2:40:49in moving ahead without without adequate consultation and engagement so I think that

2:40:55this council must take that part extremely seriously before before passing any sort of bylaw.

2:41:02Thank you and just to have supplemental through the mayor if I might just from your extensive

2:41:08experience in community and environmental activism do you believe that meaningful engagement can

2:41:13learn to lead to mutual learning and to positive you know protocols or things you know a healthier

2:41:22more respectful kind of outcome. Absolutely absolutely I mean that's all it was we got to

2:41:29hear from Greg earlier today and I was grateful for his words around engaging in conversation is the

2:41:35only way that's the only way we can come together as community by hearing each other by listening

2:41:40to each other by coming up with solutions that work for everyone I similarly feel that way for the

2:41:45downtown business owners that spoke today I think I appreciated the words from the lawyer who said

2:41:52that options for those tents the pathway to having folks not doing that is not through

2:42:00punitive actions it's through real solutions for those folks and this could benefit everyone in

2:42:06our community and we all need to be at that table. Thank you very much. Councillor Allt

2:42:15I'm sure it was riveting we'll have to come back to you another time

2:42:27uh we are going to go to heads up two more delegates and then we'll just all take a break

2:42:32we all need a break so we're going to take like a half an hour break once we go two more delegates so

2:42:39Amelia Meister is going to join us by video and then Nicole Clark is Nicole here okay thank you

2:42:53and Nicole so by video Amelia is on video I see you thank you can you just unmute for us there you

2:43:00go and you have up to five minutes as well go right ahead. My name is Amelia Meister and I am a

2:43:07Guelph resident who does most of my shopping playing and socializing at downtown businesses.

2:43:12I am opposed to the public space use bylaw as it currently prevents people living in encampments

2:43:18from setting up encampments close to the services they need downtown. I believe that the encampments

2:43:23should remain until such a time as a safe and appropriate temporary encampment solution can be

2:43:29found or every single person living in encampments has safe and permanent housing. For me as for many

2:43:36this is a human rights issue and the courts agree Waterloo had their anti-encampment bylaw which

2:43:42though this has a different name it counts the same thing struck down by courts we heard about that

2:43:48great Guelph will face the same thing in courts and I'm worried about the unnecessary

2:43:54costs to taxpayers for court fees during a budgetary crisis. Additionally the bylaw proposal

2:44:03states that this will require increased bylaw enforcement which the city does not have budget

2:44:08for. I am concerned that the city will then turn to police to uphold bylaw which will further

2:44:14criminalize already vulnerable populations as well as justify increases in the police budget which

2:44:20we know from public consultations on the budget the majority of residents in Guelph oppose.

2:44:26For the most part I am met with responses by the council that our hands are tied because of the

2:44:32province or county. However I wonder why instead of commissioning a public space use bylaw from

2:44:39city staff they did not commission a report on every possible creative solution available to

2:44:44address the housing crisis. We do not have a vacancy tax you could adopt a bylaw preventing

2:44:50corporations from purchasing residential properties neither yet proposed nor considered by council

2:44:56you could adopt a bylaw eliminating short-term rentals in second third or fourth homes this was

2:45:01already voted down you could implement a progressive property tax increase on every additional home

2:45:07owned in Guelph beyond the first property this is not yet considered you could increase the amount

2:45:12of money in the affordable housing reserve so that organizations like Habanat for Humanity

2:45:17could apply for seed money to build housing this was already voted down all these options would

2:45:22increase the amount of housing available the first principle in addressing homelessness is

2:45:27preventing it from happening in the first place by using the tools you have as a municipality to

2:45:32increase housing options and prevent price gouging by corporations whose only goal is to

2:45:37offer returns on investment to shareholders instead of providing more affordable rents

2:45:43beyond prevention you could assign one public space for encampments as we've heard many people

2:45:48talk about in or around downtown and appropriately resource that space with electricity to prevent

2:45:54profane fires and porta potties and water you could follow the guidelines put in place by the

2:46:01Ontario Human Rights Commission for decreasing barriers to affordable housing projects like

2:46:05decreasing unnecessary public consultation and giving space to nimby ideologies that hold up

2:46:11that hold up projects like the Dalhay street project you could adopt the housing first model

2:46:17that both medicine hat and denver colorado have taken to functionally eliminate chronic homelessness

2:46:23you could take the same steps as in 2020 during the beginning of the covid crisis and put people

2:46:28in long-term hotel or motel rooms until such a time as permanent housing becomes available

2:46:34there are tools that you can use in this city to address this issue tools that have been used in

2:46:39other municipalities successfully tools that the city itself has used before this is why when you

2:46:45say to me in your emails your hands are tied because of the province or the county you are

2:46:51spinning it seems like you are spinning a different story than the reality of the tools and power that

2:46:57you have to make change instead of lamenting over your perceived powerlessness on council

2:47:03i urge you to take immediate action pass bylaws and implement strategies that provide proven

2:47:09solutions to the housing and homelessness emergencies in guelph unfortunately this bylaw

2:47:17further marginalizes and criminalizes our most vulnerable population in guelph rather than taking

2:47:24the time energy and resources needed to come up with a long-term viable plan instead of saying

2:47:31your hands are tied please use your leadership creativity and massive resources to research

2:47:37develop and implement a workable plan for housing and until then allow the encampments to stay thank

2:47:44you thank you for calling and videoing in for us uh i'm going to look around the room uh councillor

2:47:52too has a question thank you through you mr mayor thank you for your delegation i'm just curious

2:47:59what are some ways in which we're doing well as a city uh i think we have to acknowledge our

2:48:06hardworking staff are doing all that they can as well with the limited resources that they have so

2:48:10i'm just curious as well just kind of to kind of shed light on the pros and cons what are some good

2:48:15things that we have done if you can elaborate from your perspective um from my perspective

2:48:24this it is not an issue with the city staffers it's an issue with the will of the council

2:48:32who has been presented with options to pass things like an increase in the affordable

2:48:41housing reserve and that was voted down i believe by a vote of 10 to 3 or in the last council because

2:48:48this is a cumulative issue this issue didn't arise with this council uh in past councils we have seen

2:48:56things like the um short-term rental units um proposals to further regulate those so that we

2:49:05eliminate uh the profiteering off short-term rental units so we can open up housing options

2:49:12for long-term residents that was also voted down i believe it was 11 to 2 um so my problem

2:49:18isn't with the city staffers or the organization it is with uh the will of the council and that

2:49:25is what i want to highlight is that this bylaw highlights that the will of the council seems to

2:49:33be more towards uh criminalization um than it is towards solutions because when presented

2:49:42with solutions those were voted down and when uh presented with the crisis of encampments

2:49:52and the dangers and challenges with encampments council immediately moved towards uh asking city

2:50:02staff to come up with um a bylaw that would have to be enforced through fines or criminalization

2:50:11and so i have no issue with how the staff at the city has moved forward i have an issue

2:50:20with council saying that it is do its hands are tied and then being presented with real issues

2:50:30and real solutions and then voting them down or not considering not taking the opportunity

2:50:38to instead address the crisis with a bylaw you could have chosen instead to address it

2:50:45with an emergency report on a myriad of tools that you have available to immediately address

2:50:53the homeless and housing crises in wealth thank you and there's no follow-up but we appreciate

2:51:03your delegation thank you oh oh just so everyone knows council did pass a bylaw on secondary units

2:51:16yeah short term rentals we already we already did that so just just so everyone knows just

2:51:20want to be factual in fact there's a lot there that we can maybe talk about later um let's see here

2:51:27uh it is nicole am i right yes nicole is it nicole almost good afternoon council my name is nicole

2:51:37clerk before i begin my speech i thought i should introduce myself so you know a bit about who i am

2:51:44and why i am against the public space use bylaw that harms under housed community members i am the

2:51:51president of the gulf and district labor council i'm also an education worker as a president i speak

2:51:59on behalf of the 14 local union affiliates and over 4500 members as an education worker i speak on

2:52:06behalf of my students and their families in this community part of my responsibility to this community

2:52:14includes helping those who need a hand up or need a voice when they are not invited or cannot speak

2:52:20for themselves attempting to use the public space use bylaw to rid yourselves of the people living

2:52:26in tents is like sweeping a room and hiding the debris under the carpet it will be a temporary

2:52:32cosmetic solution to a systemic problem in the 2020 census from from stats can and gulf 18.4

2:52:40percent of the population we're living in poverty 5.5 needed housing and 20.1 percent

2:52:48we're living in substandard housing from the number of people we have seen resorting to living

2:52:54in tents or on the street or at homeless shelters we know that this number continues to rise there

2:53:02is also the side of precarious housing that is not often seen such as living in cars couch surfing

2:53:09and crowded rooms and apartments which remain mostly undocumented 62 percent of those that

2:53:15are unhoused are considered chronically homeless as they have been without a home for longer than

2:53:19six months 42 percent of those that are unhoused were first unhoused as young adults at 18 figures

2:53:26from the united way gulf show that 24 percent of the population in gulf is food insecure with a loss

2:53:32of paycheck this 24 percent could be added to our statistics of those living without a home

2:53:39I have spewed these numbers to point out that this is not a simple issue of removing a few

2:53:45tents from public spaces there are other considerations of proper mental health supports

2:53:50physical well-being safety lack of employment disability and a host of other issues that

2:53:56impede a person from finding and keeping proper housing poverty and homelessness are complicated

2:54:02issues and these tents are the most obvious sign that gulf needs real solutions not cosmetic ones

2:54:08the great thing is that you already have the answers this council in 2022 endorsed the creation

2:54:14of a strategic advisory group which was a subcommittee of the mayor's task force on homelessness

2:54:19and community safety they had several recommendations you have access to several groups that currently

2:54:25work with the unhoused stepping stones homeless hub and other valuable resources in this community

2:54:31there are many here who have spoken and will likely speak who are more knowledgeable and

2:54:35eloquent in giving advice to this council as to solutions to pursue your use of the public space

2:54:41use by-law to remove tents is very showy and gives the impact of a garish false result whoosh now you

2:54:48see them now you don't they will be shoved under the carpet only to work themselves into other

2:54:53places in gulf the result of the by-laws use is distracting people from what is really needed

2:55:00funding manpower and time i'd like to finish up by asking this council to consider doing the

2:55:05hard work rather than the easy work the hard work in the long run will have more lasting

2:55:10benefits the easy work may result in more issues down the road the municipality of waterloo was

2:55:16just recently handed down a decision from the ontario's superior court of justice that their

2:55:21force of homeless people to leave their encampment and violates their rights to life

2:55:27liberty and security of person which are protected in section seven of the charter

2:55:33i'd prefer that this council use their time resources and funding for building a legacy

2:55:39to be proud of thank you thank you is there any follow-up for the delegate okay council donor

2:55:46yes thank you to you mr mayor um so to call what i was what you said was that they'd be gone they'd

2:55:52be disappeared you wouldn't see them again and my understanding is that well we're not sure whether

2:56:00they'd be removed from the the square but certainly they'd be in parks around the downtown where it's

2:56:06permissible and even more visible um so i'm just suggest like so if you're on the corner of waterloo

2:56:13and gordon or if you're an exhibition park or rural city park is that not more visible than in then

2:56:20and i'm not even assuming that they would be removed from the square because it would be permitted

2:56:23to tent overnight there because but it's programmable space so i'm just sort of i'm just questioning that

2:56:29assumption that they would be disappeared they would disappear and they would be out of sight

2:56:35so i'm just wondering like about that how how you have come to that conclusion if you've read the

2:56:40bylaw thank you for your question i think what is really needed here is to ask just different

2:56:47questions i think you've heard from a multiple of people today with regards to uh enforcement of

2:56:54this bylaw you've heard from people asking for more consultation you've heard from people here today

2:57:01saying we need more things in place before you remove these people no one today has made any

2:57:10disbarring marks with regards to the importance of having a vibrant downtown whether that's open

2:57:18businesses or whether that is you know having safe spaces for people nobody is debating that i think

2:57:25what the problem here is is that you are trying to push this bylaw through without proper consultation

2:57:33you are trying to sort of appease the audience by saying nobody is going to be pushed out but in

2:57:41essence what's happening i just a point of order here just i asked a question about visibility of

2:57:48the encampment i am i understand your i understand there's a bigger issue and that we're all listening

2:57:52to everybody here right but i you had said in your delegation that they would be disappeared

2:57:58from the landscape and i'm questioning whether your understanding of the bylaw because that's

2:58:05not what i heard right respectfully thank you for letting me finish i appreciate that what i was

2:58:11trying to get to you is the fact that you can't have a bylaw like this without having some sort of

2:58:18fundamental policing of it you are going to be asking people to move to other sections of town

2:58:26for appearances you're going to remove people to make it convenient during this time and this time

2:58:32you are doing these things in order to make these people disappear i'm going to tell you

2:58:38that we have a problem here in gwellf is there any other is there any other follow-up thank you

2:58:49thank you okay we are taking a we are taking a break it's one o'clock it's probably a good time

2:59:08to take a break so we can reassess how we're going to come back here and continue so that we

2:59:14are respectful and not disturbing anyone and to continue the good conversation and questions

2:59:20that we're having when we come back uh mic uh graph from the sigwin health center is going to

2:59:28start us off micah you here thank you and uh ron east i've seen you sitting here all day so far

2:59:36hi ron thank you you'll be in the wings uh we are going to come back here at 130 and uh so we'll

2:59:44have a formal recess right now okay thank you so much everyone this is your 32nd warning everybody

3:32:26online okay i'll call the meeting back to order thank you very much everybody and we're going to

3:33:50keep going with our delegates starting with uh mit graph from sanguine health center and then ron east

3:33:57will be in the wings and i see there's two of you i'm just social support yeah okay i'm not even here

3:34:15okay yeah i don't even know who who's talking i don't even know who's talking sorry all right go ahead

3:34:22dear gulf city counselors i'm delegating today to express my deep concern around the proposed

3:34:26public space use bylaw that aims to restrict and prohibit encampments under the guise of public safety

3:34:33this new proposed bylaw threatens the means of survival for many unhoused community members

3:34:37living in the downtown core and throughout the city of guelph the reasons for someone sleeping in a

3:34:43tent are abundant and a result of systemic failure once someone ends up on the streets they're

3:34:48continuously scrutinized criminalized and stigmatized to a place where services are now inaccessible

3:34:55for some community community members downtown is safer than in a shelter alternative when people

3:35:01when people are living in the downtown core they get to be with their chosen community

3:35:06the risk of being harmed or trafficked lessens when there is community support the location of

3:35:10downtown is a survival factor as people have more accessibility to resources such as meals

3:35:16bathrooms health care and social social services the cost of transportation is less of a worry when

3:35:23people living downtown when living downtown as most resources are walking distance i would like to

3:35:32assumption that all people living rough use drugs which is not the case however the interconnectedness

3:35:37between using drugs and living rough is a result of trying to cope and survive right now the drug

3:35:43supply is extremely toxic this opioid crisis needs to be taken as the epidemic it is last

3:35:49thursday there were 12 known drug poisonings in one day here in guelph this could have been 12 lives

3:35:55lost in a single day if it wasn't for community members responding to these poisonings with

3:35:59Narcan oxygen and other responses from peers this single hand and leash should be a reason why

3:36:05our most vulnerable community members need to stay in view of each other and their supports

3:36:12this bylaw will deepen the criminalization of people who use drugs and people living in poverty

3:36:17it is rooted in stigma with the perspective that vulnerable people are unsafe or an eyesore

3:36:22if we displace our community members the wellness of our collective will continue to wither resulting

3:36:27in more crime violence and coping mechanisms if we ask our most vulnerable community members to

3:36:33take down all their belongings an hour before sunrise their survival needs are limited to

3:36:38their backpacks this bylaw does not address through the root of the problem such as lack of

3:36:43affordable housing lack of social support and lack of accessible healthcare homelessness and addiction

3:36:50will be present in our city for years to come removing the problem from our site does not

3:36:54abolish it i acknowledge the uncomfortability tourist and business owners may feel as they

3:37:02perceive community members not being able to meet their basic needs this uncomfortability can be

3:37:08explained as a lack of context and humanization our downtown community members are not living in

3:37:13st. juizha square as their desired life they're there because we as a city and province continuously

3:37:20service and housing opportunities we need to discuss what a reasonable and accessible

3:37:26alternative to shelter is and why people would refuse a hotel or shelter a reasonable and

3:37:31accessible alternative to shelter would be a location close to downtown and its resources

3:37:36with adequate bus routes available it would be geared to income which is as little as

3:37:40three hundred and ninety dollars a month for people living on ow and provide accessible and

3:37:45affordable meals a reasonable and accessible alternative would be harm reduction focused

3:37:52and should provide a safe space to use drugs which include adequate overdose response

3:37:57empathy and dignity access to new gear in the lock zone there it also be access to housing

3:38:03workers there should be housing cafes that are accessible and not punitive this means people can

3:38:08find support in searching for homes at the time that works for them my biggest problem solving

3:38:14proposal is to humanize our community members living in the downtown core we can start offering

3:38:19resources such as access to electricity access to bathrooms and showers and 24 seven warming

3:38:24and cooling centers and providing meals three times a day these would give more opportunity for

3:38:30people to meet their basic human needs the six hundred thousand dollars the county received

3:38:34more stable housing could be put towards transitional and permanent housing many homes and or designated

3:38:40lots where people can access the resources it could be used to provide hotels and shelters

3:38:45that are closer to downtown with transportation covered these hotels and shelters need to be

3:38:50family and pet friendly with private rooms so people's cherish belongings don't get stolen

3:38:55there need to be more diverse options for shelters as the only shelter and wealth

3:38:59isn't accessible for everyone there needs to be harm reduction practices in these shelters

3:39:04lastly community members should be discharged only if a suitable alternative is offered

3:39:09with a deep thought of what a suitable alternative is with the understanding of the importance of

3:39:16keeping our community members in sight i'm calling on the city gulf city councilors to reject this

3:39:22proposed bylaw was at the end no okay were you um were you one sentence away or yeah okay i'm

3:39:33going to give you that one sentence go for it thank you and instead work to a better understanding

3:39:37of the media and long-term needs of our unhoused community members in gulf and to offer more

3:39:41adequate support and services for our community members you were right it was one sentence perfect

3:39:47okay thank you very much let me just see if there's any questions for you any follow-up

3:39:51questions councillor oh please thank you mayor Guthrie mech i hope that you would be uh willing

3:40:00to answer this one um i heard you talk about drugs living roughly and poverty and my question is

3:40:09about basic needs including the need to self-medicate and pets when it comes to things like accessibility

3:40:17of shelters and i know that's a big question but i thank you for providing your personal experiences

3:40:25with this so what's the exact question i was wondering if you could talk about the issue

3:40:35of self-medication and basic needs of those living in encampments yeah um

3:40:45so just thinking of all the reasons why people have addiction people use drugs

3:40:52to cope with things um a lot of things that our society doesn't provide services to heal and rest

3:41:00for um people use drugs people also have pets pets are extremely important they might be the only

3:41:11loyal presence someone has in their life and that is the reason why shelters aren't always

3:41:17accessible because our shelter doesn't allow the pets thank you your answer my second question

3:41:24when you talked about pets thank you very much mayor Guthrie okay thank you very much and seeing

3:41:31nothing further we appreciate you coming and waiting appreciate it okay um

3:41:39yes ron east you are next john fischer you're in the wings okay uh before i start i'd just

3:41:56like to make two quick recommendations if you have the opportunity um it would be good to listen to

3:42:03um the premier of manitoba this morning on cbc radio as he was discussing this issue

3:42:13and uh suggesting a very different approach based on a very different set of values

3:42:21and the second recommendation is for staff to have a look at the welcome home mission in montreal

3:42:30ron ron you're using your time you're using your time you got to you got to keep going okay

3:42:35oh you already taken the time have you okay uh

3:42:42so i'd like to start my presentation by reminding council that on tuesday february 12th the federal

3:42:49government announced that there is a crisis in affordable housing and homelessness nationally

3:42:55there are approximately four million people homeless across the country and wealth is not

3:43:01immune from this crisis with all due respect in my view this bylaw is not strictly legal i'm not a

3:43:09lawyer uh given the fact that those individuals who have erected temporary and movable structures

3:43:16without preventing free movement uh by the public are in fact engaging in a lawful protest

3:43:24against homelessness and an economic and social system which forces these individuals into these

3:43:32dire circumstances dismantling their protest is against free speech and the right of assembly

3:43:41and the right to lawful protest enforcing this bylaw will contravene the constitution of this

3:43:48country in my view the gulf police need to seek their own legal advice prior to involvement

3:43:58in the forceful removal of a lawful protest and the possible arrest of individuals who stand

3:44:07alongside them this bylaw as it stands is incredibly onerous with its many stipulations

3:44:14and prohibitions related to tent encampments and while some of the restrictions are reasonable

3:44:21and sensible it appears in my opinion to be punitive the purpose of this bylaw is abundantly

3:44:30clear remove all temporary structures from public property regardless of the hardships it creates

3:44:36and without providing any options for permanent safe housing providing a cot in a dormitory

3:44:44may not be safe either for property or the person it is not for many of the homeless people in

3:44:50an option being housed overnight in remote locations is also not an option because of lack

3:44:58of transportation and proximity to support and resources the answer is housing geared to income

3:45:05public housing and cooperative housing private sector developers are not in the business of

3:45:12developing social housing they're in the business which are created to rebuild new housing for the

3:45:19market that is able to afford a deposit and pay mortgage payments prior to the pandemic

3:45:26wealth built approximately 65,000 new homes in 2024 instead of the target of 90,000 there will

3:45:35actually be closer to 80,000 new starts with the increase in population that is actually not much

3:45:42more than there was prior to the provincial mandate coming into effect the only part of this

3:45:48provincial mandate that has been enacted that is actually working is the forcing of municipalities

3:45:56to shoulder more of the costs from tax base which is about 10 percent of overall taxes

3:46:03the provincial carrot has been to offer mayors near dictatorial powers to enforce these measures

3:46:11despite some of these mayors promising their electorate that they would never be used the cut

3:46:18in the 2024 property taxes proposed by our mayor will have to come out of social community and

3:46:25cultural programs and staff reductions it can't come out of water electricity roads and transportation

3:46:32or sewers and infrastructure can it so providing alternatives alternative permanent accommodation

3:46:46even tiny homes for everyone by March 1st is simply not possible I strongly urge council to ask staff

3:46:54to go back to the drawing board and come back with a proposal that responds humanely to the needs

3:47:00of one of the most vulnerable sectors of our community those who simply do not have shelter

3:47:07thank you thank you Ron is there a follow-up for Ron seeing none thank you very much and we're on to

3:47:15John Fisher who is on his way down Susan Ratcliffe are you here yes okay perfect you're in the wings

3:47:24John over to you thank you Mayor Guthrie councillors city staff and fellow delegates

3:47:34my name is John Fisher and I'm a resident of downtown thank you council and staff for

3:47:39bringing this discussion into the public arena with a draft bylaw I believe there's genuine

3:47:46compassion and empathy by our community for our fellow citizens who are unsheltered and the record

3:47:52suggests there has been progress made over the last year in providing permanent housing solutions

3:47:58for some but we have not built fast enough insufficient quantity to satisfy the need it's

3:48:04gratifying and disappointing that it's a community organization which is providing the leadership

3:48:11for an interim temporary solution of tiny houses regarding the staff recommendations

3:48:17staff recommendation number two for the collection and sharing of data should be replaced by the

3:48:23consortium of health ceo practitioners recommendations number two and three these recommendations seem

3:48:32far more robust and involve key health supports in the sharing of data to arrive at informed proactive

3:48:39solutions I support recommendation number three advocacy with the association of municipalities

3:48:47and with the province however the current strategies don't seem to be working and the AMO should be

3:48:54re-evaluating alternatives that will get the province's attention I do support a public

3:49:01space use bylaw allowing underserviced encampments to proliferate around the city and particularly

3:49:09the downtown core does not dignify the unhoused and causes a cascade of negative consequences

3:49:17that adds to the stigma that people associate with the occupants it also has a negative impact

3:49:24on the safety and economic well-being of downtown businesses and is discouraging to other residents

3:49:31who frequent downtown but I do not support this public space use bylaw this draft is negative

3:49:41legalistic and confusing and with none of the elements required for a human rights approach

3:49:47to homelessness the new bylaw must simply state and plainly the location that the city has designated

3:49:56as suitable for an encampment community to be set up it's not sufficient to tell people where

3:50:02they are permitted to camp we should we should address the homeless crisis in Guelph with the

3:50:08same focus and urgency that is applied to natural disaster relief efforts I suggest the city installs

3:50:17a temporary fully serviced community for the unhoused one possible site could be the vacant

3:50:25lawn bowling lot by the covered bridge it's close to downtown and there are no residents

3:50:31nearby to convince the site already has electrification water lighting and waste collection

3:50:39we could add custom design trailers with washroom and flower and shower facilities

3:50:46privacy screens could be installed around the perimeter the site would be secured

3:50:53so people would not have to have to carry all their belongings with them to obtain downtown

3:50:59services outreach policing and support would be focused and measurable the lawn bowling office

3:51:07could act as a support hub for the unhoused community to navigate services and downtown pavement

3:51:15pavement support food support programs could operate out of the same location if the city

3:51:21provided this kind of immunity a bylaw that insisted that members of the homeless community

3:51:28move to a location offered better more effective and more complete supports than tents on the street

3:51:35would not be hard to defend the financial risk of litigation would be minimized in the meantime

3:51:43there are lots of creative opportunities the city could pursue to support the homeless community

3:51:51hopefully representatives with a lived experience were able to express what they needed at the

3:51:57private housing symposium there are also many creative ideas being expressed today from delegates

3:52:04for example of vacancy tax leasing vacant store space providing secure lockers to store personal

3:52:11property etc i look forward to reading the next draft of a much improved public use public space

3:52:20use bylaw thank you thank you john for your delegation looks like councillor Busuttil has a

3:52:27follow-up question for you thank you for your delegation just very quickly you mentioned

3:52:31temporary can you tell me is temporary three years is it five is it ten what is your vision in

3:52:37temporary given that other areas call for an exit strategy what is your definition of temporary

3:52:45well that does depend on some of the the other supports we get right in terms of providing

3:52:54permanent housing and temporary often ends up being semi-permanent but again if it's if it's

3:53:02fully serviced fully supported i'm not sure that's terrible right i mean it's not good

3:53:10uh but it's but it's better than what we have right now and we could do an awful lot with

3:53:15something that was fully serviced like that we have nothing like that right now and it would

3:53:21focus the attention it would focus the support just through the mirror thank you thank you great

3:53:28i'm seeing nothing further john thank you very much for delegating um susan wrackliffe is here

3:53:37and then is barb cunningham here sorry does somebody put my glasses on is barb here

3:53:46she's not here okay um so susan watson will be on the phone next so uh two susans in a row

3:53:56you lucky susan wrackliffe i'm always lucky to see you guys you go right ahead mr mayor city

3:54:03counselors and staff i'm asking city council to support the draft public spaces bylaw because i

3:54:13think it is a reasonable and fair for draft to protect our public spaces at spaces for all citizens

3:54:23i do have experience with the homeless although i am not an expert in my work at the downtown

3:54:30branch of the public library i have myself dealt with overdoses and i work with a large diversity

3:54:38of patrons the library staff work to help all patrons with their needs including the homeless

3:54:46the library is also a warming center and a welcoming place for all i am also though a walking tour

3:54:54guide for guelph's heritage places and the site coordinator for doors open guelph in both those

3:55:01roles i take pride in presenting our city's heritage buildings and landscapes and telling the

3:55:08stories of our unique history this past summer the beautiful gardens in st george's square

3:55:15were a highlight of many of our tours several reports have called housing a right but with

3:55:23that right comes rules and responsibilities guelph has zoning bylaws to identify acceptable

3:55:32places for housing safety bylaws to protect citizens and property bylaws to require cleanliness

3:55:40and safety in our community those living intents should be required to follow those rules when

3:55:47the canadian bill of rights was formulated in 1982 it was built around the common good

3:55:55rather than individual rights i am asking that you support this bylaw for two main reasons

3:56:02first is fairness our city's population is close to 140 000 people the city's parks and public spaces

3:56:12are for the use of all members of the public spaces like st george's square are intended for

3:56:20use by all and should not be blocked or fouled by a few allowing a few people to privatize those

3:56:28public spaces for their own exclusive use is just not fair secondly the effect on tourism

3:56:38the city is directing the two million dollar mat tax to tourism the newly energized tourism

3:56:45department is working hard to attract even more visitors to guelph with many activities planned

3:56:52for the summer the present state of downtown with the encampments will leave those visitors with a

3:56:58bad impression of our city and negatively affect our city's economy doors open guelph annually

3:57:06attract 6000 residents and visitors to guelph every year this year four of the 12 sites are in

3:57:14downtown guelph usually those visitors also bring a boost to the local economy by dining at local

3:57:22restaurants and patronizing local businesses the condition of our downtown public space

3:57:29could deter them from visiting those sites i would like to quote close by quoting a section

3:57:36of the staff report describing the purpose of this bylaw to regulate the use of specified public

3:57:44spaces within the jurisdiction of the city of guelph to ensure the protection of persons and

3:57:52property and promote safe use and enjoyment for all and just something to consider as i close

3:58:01right behind this building is a large federal property that would make a perfect space for

3:58:09a tent encampment close to downtown and protected by the army thank you thank you thank you

3:58:19Susan for your delegation is there a follow-up at all to that there isn't but if i could just give

3:58:26one commentary the ontario big city mayor's caucus about a month ago passed unanimously a call on the

3:58:32federal government to open up their armories across the country to to help with the homelessness

3:58:38situation so we haven't heard back thanks but we did that okay thank you very much okay uh

3:58:45susan watson will be on the phone next and peanut uh marfici i see you you're going to be in the

3:58:51wings so susan can it's marigot three can you hear me and star six to unmute again one more time it's

3:59:08oh i think we hear you now susan yep okay we can hear you fine go right ahead okay mayor

3:59:14got three and members of wealth city council i'm joining others in asking you not to pass this public

3:59:20spaces use bylaw the irony has not been lost on others that a bylaw that is entitled public spaces

3:59:28use bylaw has not involved any consultation whatsoever with the public and there are clearly

3:59:35multiple stakeholders who are concerned about this issue i guess under our news wealth dictatorship

3:59:42it's not just counselors that can be dispensed with it's also citizens if you had held public

3:59:49consultation you might have heard before drafting the bylaw that similar bylaws are being challenged

3:59:54not just under section seven of the charter which is life liberty and security of the person

4:00:00but also a quality rights under section 15 and while limiting encampments to five tenths might

4:00:06seem innocuous as ronnie's pointed out wealth could be inviting a challenge under section two of the

4:00:12charter freedom of assembly and freedom of association the vacancy tax report prepared

4:00:18several months ago for this council cautioned against action on the basis that it could cost

4:00:24money and it might not work why aren't the same principles being applied here staff are telling

4:00:31you that you could be risking one million dollars in tax money to defend this bylaw in the short

4:00:39time i have i want to cut the solution and a vacancy tax is one of them that is within your

4:00:45jurisdiction i sent you all photos of five row houses on fountains street that have been sitting

4:00:52empty for more than two years there's another house around the corner from me that has been vacant

4:00:58for more than 15 years the vacancy tax bylaw in toronto takes into account temporary vacancies for

4:01:06deaths or illnesses but if you are taking five houses out of circulation for land assembly

4:01:13you need to pay for that privilege in the midst of a housing crisis no housing should be sitting

4:01:20empty without good reasons other jurisdictions have moved on this wealth needs to also

4:01:27in the short term i also support a better tense city like kitchens or house and i would like to

4:01:32see the people who brought this idea to the mayor receive credit for their efforts others have

4:01:37suggested locations and i think a logical location is the parking lot behind the former post office

4:01:45that is a publicly owned asset currently being used for private benefit as employee

4:01:51parking for county employees and the county are the ones who are actually responsible for the housing

4:01:57file it remains astounding to me that this parcel of land was not integrated into the

4:02:03baker district development and its value was not leveraged for matching housing funds from the

4:02:08federal government and at some point i would like to move by lastly there seems to be no lack of

4:02:15money for housing right now but the only people who seem to be benefiting are developers well fights

4:02:21are being forced to subsidize development charges to the tune of 23 million dollars this year

4:02:29luxury penthouses and mega mansions are receiving tens of thousands of dollars per unit

4:02:37in the public money at some point this council and others across Ontario need to stop being the

4:02:43handmaidens of the forward government it's unconscionable that 23 million dollars in taxes is padding

4:02:50developers bottom line while people are sleeping in tents through canadian winters and why are we

4:02:57spending more than 20 million in federal money to accelerate housing approvals you have already

4:03:04approved 60 thousand units of housing which have yet to be built that money should be allocated to

4:03:11building rent geared to income social housing as far as i can see the housing crisis is being used by

4:03:18dog's board and his strong mayor acolytes as a pretext to enrich their developer cronies

4:03:24and dismantle democracies may have got three less than six weeks before 2022 municipal election

4:03:31you joined the outgoing council in a unanimous vote against bringing strong mayor powers to wealth

4:03:37the public representation you made to voters was that you were against them and you were elected

4:03:43on that understanding you have zero mandate from the citizens of wealth to exercise strong mayor

4:03:50powers and you should be ashamed of the profound betrayal of local democracy thank you great thank

4:03:59you any um any delegate any questions for the delegate no okay thank you i have i have one

4:04:09susan the um pictures you sent of uh some vacant homes are you aware that or or not that they are

4:04:20that's up for development i'm not aware of the development application but if they're going to

4:04:29be torn down anyway they could be providing temporary housing now if they're getting torn down

4:04:36it doesn't even matter if they have hard living tenants but but if people are just having housing

4:04:42that's empty um because it's about land acquisition or future development and they either need to be

4:04:49paying a vacancy tax or they need to be making them available to people who are living on the street

4:04:56okay so forcing that okay all right i appreciate that and i i don't see anything further thank you

4:05:01very much for your delegation as well um pina marfisi is here making her way down and kathryn

4:05:12nixon i think i saw kathryn yes you are in the wings welcome go right ahead good afternoon

4:05:23mr. mayor and city council my name is pina marfisi i am the proud owner of aqua salon

4:05:29located on windham and quabectry i spent most of my life being a part of the downtown core

4:05:35initially as a child with my parents who owned and operated long channel shoes taken into account

4:05:41all these years of experience i can honestly say that i've never witnessed a more disturbing and

4:05:46frightening situations than what we are living now i am here to express my support for the public

4:05:52space use bylaw i would like to let you know about what's really going on in our downtown

4:05:57drugs are rampant they are being used and doubt openly in public you can walk around at almost

4:06:04any time daily and with and witness people crushing white pills and snorting it or smoking pipes

4:06:11every day where where there are people hunched over on the street with needles in their arms

4:06:16it is common now for people to be followed harassed robbed and physically assaulted a person was

4:06:23witness witnessed defecating on the sidewalk in front of crowd which included young children

4:06:29we have also had a situation where a person threatened to murder a business owner many of

4:06:34these things are happening on a daily basis and none of them are acceptable it has gotten to the

4:06:39point where many who live and work downtown do so in fear they are afraid of being around all the

4:06:46illegal activities and violence employees who are working for paychecks to keep the lights and food

4:06:52on their table have started to ask themselves is today the day that i get beaten or mugged business

4:06:58owners are worried about the safety of their staff their clients and the threats of breaking in

4:07:03break-ins and vandalism this is the new reality whether you want to believe it or not due to all

4:07:11of this it can easily be said that the impact on the small businesses has not been good the weight

4:07:17of the addiction and homelessness crisis in the heart of the downtown has forced businesses into

4:07:23critical situations recently four store owners have been forced to shut down and many others are

4:07:29hanging on by a thread if something is not done soon these numbers will only get bigger small

4:07:35businesses are at the heart of what makes downtown guaff such special place to visit and live and

4:07:43quibbeck street being the wonderful example of that it is clear that the royal city mission

4:07:48while trying to help is simply overwhelmed by sheer numbers they're unable to maintain or control

4:07:54the mayhem of illegal activity drug use discarded needles vulgar language fighting and times people

4:08:01also having sex in plain view the problem is simply too big for them to deal with effectively

4:08:08because of this there is a 50 drop in sales and the foot traffic is simply not there with countless

4:08:14convene conversations and emails the reasons have been made crystal clear business owners

4:08:21visitors do not feel safe and are disgusted with what they are witnessing parents are fearful for

4:08:27their safety and the safety of their family we are often asked why is this allowed for that we

4:08:33do not have an answer it has been put forward that business owners are upper class and don't want to

4:08:40deal with the eyesore that has become our downtown this could not be further from the truth what you

4:08:46have are a group of business owners who have put years times dedication into their lives and their

4:08:52life savings into trying to create a service to the community and they can be proud and they can be

4:08:58proud of it just like you they worry about making ends meet and wonder how long they can survive

4:09:05if people stop coming downtown they are fearful of the future while living through all of this

4:09:11adversity and people accusing them of not caring I would like to enlighten you as what the downtown

4:09:16businesses quietly gave to our people in need there were dozens of large blue bins filled with

4:09:22food with toys coats undergarments boots socks diapers to the royal city to the royal city

4:09:33just one second pina just one second we're gonna let this let this individual leave okay okay so

4:10:00pina could you go back about 10 10 seconds or so a couple sentences there were dozens of large

4:10:07blue bit bins filled with food toys coats undergarments boots socks and diapers we have given to the

4:10:15royal city the hope house and the food bank 29 thousand dollars was also raised and donated to

4:10:23the home for good campaign off the spirit of the season event we were in we are we are not idle and

4:10:29to imply that we are uncaring is ignorant and ridiculous the issue of homeless mental illness

4:10:36and addiction is complex and can't be fixed in this conversation there will always be verifying

4:10:41opinions as to how best to deal with this an approach that won't satisfy everybody but will

4:10:47allow for changes right now to ensure that we can at least maintain and offer a safer and more

4:10:53prosperous downtown I feel that this bylaw is balanced and a realistic attempt to move forward

4:10:59I hope that this is the first step towards tackling monumental issue thank you so much for your time

4:11:05well thank you thank you for your delegation is there any follow-up to the delegate at all

4:11:12okay hearing and seeing none thank you very much Catherine Nixon you're up and Daniel

4:11:22Loughran is Daniel here okay perfect thank you very much welcome Catherine go right ahead when

4:11:37you're ready good afternoon hello my name is Catherine Nixon and I come before you as someone

4:11:46with an educational background in social service work a harm reduction worker and advocate and a

4:11:51long-standing volunteer within our downtown community over the past five years I've been

4:11:56part of a grassroots youth led organization called your downtown well friends that provides

4:12:00essential support to those in need our commitment to understanding and addressing the diverse needs

4:12:06of our residents drives us to continuously advocate for cultural sensitivity and inclusion

4:12:11in all community services I stand before you today ready and eager to continue our collaborative

4:12:18efforts in creating a more empathetic and supportive environment for all individuals in our city

4:12:23as we engage in discourse about the proposed criminalization of homelessness it becomes crucial

4:12:29to recognize the human faces obscured by these policies homelessness far from being a crime

4:12:36serves as a symptom of broader systemic challenges the dearth of affordable housing mental health

4:12:42battles and economic disparities when we criminalize homelessness we not only

4:12:47displace individuals from their makeshift abodes we also perpetuate cycles of poverty

4:12:52and dehumanization in this moment we wield the power to choose compassion over coercion

4:12:58and to prioritize empathy over enforcement our collective efforts should be directed

4:13:04towards solutions that uplift and support all members of our community regardless of their

4:13:10housing status let us not erase the humanity of our fellow citizens instead let us strive to

4:13:17construct a city where everyone finds a place to call home accompanied by the essential resources

4:13:23they need to thrive the individuals living in tents in our community are not merely statistics

4:13:29or inconveniences to be ignored they are human beings who have fallen on hard times facing

4:13:34circumstances beyond their control it is crucial for us to recognize their humanity and show

4:13:39compassion towards their plight providing them with access to basic necessities such as shelter

4:13:45food and health care is not only a matter of matter of moral obligation it is also a reflection of

4:13:50our collective humanity as a society we must come together to support those in need offer a helping

4:13:57hand and work towards solutions that address the root causes of homelessness the eviction of

4:14:02tents is a draconian measure that only serves to further marginalize vulnerable populations

4:14:08it can be seen as a form of collective punishment which is a violation of international law

4:14:13targeting a group of individuals rather than addressing specific issues unjustly penalizes

4:14:18individuals who may not be responsible for the actions of a few it is the lack of adequate housing

4:14:24options and wealth that has left many individuals with no other option but to reside in tents

4:14:29criminalizing them or subjecting them to eviction violates their basic human dignity

4:14:34our focus should not solely be on future housing projects but rather on addressing the urgent

4:14:38needs of homelessness people are being turned away from the shelters due to lack of space

4:14:43and the additional beds have not been added to accommodate them the recent sale of the 90

4:14:48carton building the fact there are no rent caps and the fact that many services are still not

4:14:52harm reduction based are proving challenging action is urgently needed to address these

4:14:58challenges and provide adequate supports the housing crisis is at a critical point and in a

4:15:03time where we should look to unite and deal with our collective responsibilities we are opting for

4:15:08nimbyism marginalization and outright hostility it is an unforgivable injustice that only serves

4:15:15to perpetuate the cycle of suffering and isolation it is imperative that we show our humanity through

4:15:20compassion empathy and action we need our politicians and stakeholders to prioritize

4:15:25policies that address the root causes of homelessness and provide for sustainable solutions for those

4:15:30in need unhoused community members endure frigid temperatures and navigate extreme health

4:15:35complications and social social isolation on a daily basis they face adversity at a level few

4:15:41would dare to contemplate for a single minute with no support structure no proper hygienic

4:15:47facilities no place to lay their heads and no warmth or comfort the people living in tents and

4:15:51dirt daily deep discomfort but now on top of that they are now facing stigmatizing sentiments being

4:15:57expressed about them from their community and their elected officials we have never witnessed any

4:16:02other constituents discussed in such a disparaging manner it is truly heartbreaking this policy and

4:16:08structural failure is intolerable we are spending a lot of time and money drafting up bylaws

4:16:14and devising measures that only cause further harm instead of looking for solutions that address

4:16:18the issue at its core do we lack imagination look at our neighboring communities such as

4:16:24kitchen or with their better tent city initiative and Hamilton's warming bus and legislation that

4:16:28stops rent evictions we know there are concrete and viable solutions we need to do better

4:16:34guelph could implement a mosaic of all these wonderful projects that showcase to the country

4:16:38what a progressive caring community is capable of doing i urge you to consider human rights and

4:16:45the moral implications of criminalizing homelessness and those living in tents by

4:16:49evicting tents you are victim blaming thank you i'm sorry so sorry i gotta cut you off there

4:16:53that is the five minutes um but stay there just in case there's a follow-up okay is there a follow-up

4:16:58question for the delegate see thank you very much um yes daniel daniel's coming up next

4:17:08and then andrea baker is andrea baker here no okay uh is jill francis here okay you'll be in

4:17:23the wings okay uh thank you for coming go right ahead sure right on uh what's up everybody my

4:17:30name's dan uh i'm i didn't think i'd be this far into a city council meeting and actually have something

4:17:35unique to bring to the table but i do that's wild uh i'm also a business owner downtown

4:17:41and my apparently unique perspective on this matter is that my business has been unaffected

4:17:46by this like there's a bunch there's a bunch of people like living directly across the

4:17:51street from where my business is located and it's i'm i'm doing fine i work with kids from ages

4:17:59seven or eight up to like my oldest student being 72 years old the only thing that they come in and

4:18:05talk to me about regards to the encampments downtown is that they're they just they're like

4:18:11what's going on i go hi yeah it's it's it's rough out there like it's expensive to live and these

4:18:17people have like very little resources available to them and if they do have resources available to

4:18:23them they have literally made a choice to opt out from them because they are inadequate so

4:18:29so y'all should probably like address those inadequacies uh before trying to just shuffle them over

4:18:37a block to in front of the library which that also doesn't seem to address the other downtown

4:18:42business owners concerns so you're like failing on literally every possible front right now it's

4:18:49it's incredible uh that's all that i have to say about that uh one thing that i thought was funny

4:18:56while reading the bill is that like it's it doesn't seem to be about housing people again it's just

4:19:02like shuffling them off in their temporary uh encampments or what have you to a different place

4:19:08that is deemed acceptable by the city uh and which should be deemed acceptable by the citizens and

4:19:14voters of the city but you all just went ahead took 11 days to sort of like just ram it in there

4:19:21just ram it in there right feels weird uh anyways the bill doesn't have anything to do with actually

4:19:30like housing people uh and if it did there would be some biases there because like cams straight at

4:19:36you buddy like your mayoral campaign finances are a matter of public record and you took a bunch of

4:19:41money from housing developers that are outside of the wealth took from north york from kitchens from

4:19:46downtown toronto and like all those they're they're all available and like if you took money from them

4:19:51in a public form for your campaign like you taking money from them in a private setting like i'm not

4:19:57suggesting that that's actually what's happening but like you did take money from them in a public

4:20:02sense to run your mayoral campaign so if there is going to be housing that's being developed in wealth

4:20:09i don't think that you or the members of the council are taking it seriously to build affordable

4:20:14housing for like homeless individuals in our city or low-income individuals in our city i think

4:20:21that you're going to build more condos that people can't afford and somehow like line the

4:20:26pockets of these developers like i don't understand who's buying these things or where the money's

4:20:31coming from but that might be because i'm an idiot uh but i do know that if you guys are going to

4:20:38propose to build some housing for low-income individuals like there's a there's an issue there

4:20:44you took some money from people that aren't historically doing that so what are they going

4:20:48to do in wealth just like turn face and start building low-income housing doesn't seem likely thank you

4:20:56okay let me just see if there's uh there's any questions for you great all right thank you

4:21:04yeah just no no clapping or that hooting and hollering and laughing please if we could keep

4:21:09our respectful arena in here that would be great and i have uh andrea baker actually i'm sorry jill

4:21:19was supposed to be here in person but i've just been told is actually joining us by video i believe

4:21:26so jill you will be up next okay uh andrea uh thank you i see you and just unmute and then you

4:21:33have up to your five minutes if you need it go right ahead great thank you mr mayor and fellow

4:21:40council members so i don't want to be too repetitive so i mostly want to respond to things that other

4:21:46delegates have said i'm a university of wealth sociology student i'm asking you to not pass this

4:21:51motion uh that you vote no on this bylaw please um so to respond to the first delegate i'm really sorry

4:21:59that you had the experiences that you did like that you've seen the things that you have

4:22:04including i'm sorry that the woman the elderly woman was assaulted i also want to point out that

4:22:09those aren't uh that those things are already illegal and that's not the same thing as people

4:22:15living in tents i reject the underlying assumption that people living in tents are inherently

4:22:21dangerous and that they need to be removed to protect the safety of people using the downtown

4:22:27black people shouldn't be profiled and criminalized for being black and homeless people shouldn't be

4:22:32profiled and criminalized for being houseless i'd like you to think about the black houseless people

4:22:38who live in our community and are at even greater risk for being black and being houseless who also

4:22:45have mothers who are concerned for them to respond to emma this is my community too and not one person

4:22:52i've talked to say that they feel unsafe walking downtown or past encampments i've walked past st

4:22:58georgia square last night i was fine i felt fine all i did was you know wish the people in those

4:23:05tents well-being um and and that they they have a good night which it's probably not amazing because

4:23:13it's cold but it's the best that they have right now um everyone i know is also just concerned

4:23:19for the safety of people and encampments right now to the librarian i reject the assertion but

4:23:25from the librarian that people living in tents are fouling st georgia square they're humans um

4:23:31they're not uh you know garbage they shouldn't be cleaned up like garbage there's a viral video

4:23:37out there somewhere of a tent being just put into the back of a garbage truck and i don't see any

4:23:45actual thing in this bylaw that says that that's not going to happen right now um i just see sort

4:23:52of people trying to um sort of assert these things will happen before the bylaw i don't see that in

4:24:01the bylaw i so that doesn't give me any guarantee that that won't happen um it's just sort of like

4:24:08an empty promise to me um these things need to happen that upstream work needs to happen

4:24:15before we give bylaw permission to come in with garbage trucks and put people's homes

4:24:20essentially in tents like the closest thing that they have to home right now the safest place they

4:24:25have imagine going on a walk and coming back like you go to get groceries you go to get food you come

4:24:30back and your house isn't there your warm place isn't there your safe place isn't there um it's

4:24:36it's really awful um uh yeah okay there was another business owner who said um that uh a business

4:24:47uh business owner was threatened with murder i'm really sorry about that i think that's illegal

4:24:54already and this bylaw doesn't have anything to do with that people shouldn't be threatened

4:24:58with murder people deserve to um be safe and feel safe as long as them saying that they want to feel

4:25:04safe shouldn't actually um impede on the safety of anyone who is actually not that safe and and

4:25:14as long as they're not making unsafe people already more unsafe um in that case work on on your own

4:25:22feelings of safety you know maybe talk to some of these people i have talked to a lot of them i

4:25:27consider them friends conrads and um i think that's a much better holistic way to go about feeling

4:25:35safe than than to criminalize people living in tents because it seems strange and upsetting to you um

4:25:44i'd also like to say uh i'm grateful for this last business owner who spoke because a lot of people

4:25:50say oh our businesses are suffering it's so hard there's a lot of reasons why it can be hard right

4:25:56so um there's so many things that go into economics and why businesses downtown might uh

4:26:03be flourishing i love shopping local i love visiting the downtown i love the scene i love the

4:26:09new pretty lights um i love being here i brought a friend here recently who also loved it

4:26:15and said wow i wish i lived in guelph um and and these things are beautiful and great and

4:26:22i don't think pinning all of the reasons for why your business might not be doing um like making

4:26:27as much profit as you would like um or thriving or your customers aren't happy not all of that has to

4:26:33be because of people who are living houseless and honestly it's not as high as a priority to me as

4:26:40the people who are living living houseless and their safety right and um sorry andrea sorry that's

4:26:46okay that's your five minutes right there so thank you just just let me see if there's a follow-up

4:26:51question okay yeah um there is not so thank you again for joining us by video thank you thank you

4:27:00okay jill for real uh this time thank you and then um uh oh more oh more oh i i hope i'm saying that

4:27:12right okay my apologies is is here no by phone joining by phone actually so that'd be next

4:27:21but jill your five minutes starts whenever you're ready go ahead oh i sorry i didn't say i was ready

4:27:29but that's okay um okay um so where to begin um i might be perhaps like the youngest human

4:27:45speaking today i'm 21 years old um i work as a part-time program support staff for windham house

4:27:54so like i'm a frontline worker and uh i don't know i feel many ways um i empathize with um

4:28:10especially the black owned business in the sense that um i just hate that this local livelihood

4:28:19is being negatively affected i hate that um more so not more so the same amount i hate how um

4:28:30yeah we think that we're using words like balance and we're using words like oh uh

4:28:38we're we're hearing everybody out and it's just quite evident that that's simply not happening

4:28:43like i believe it was counselor too you mentioned earlier how um bylaw doesn't want to respond

4:28:50by removing tents or escalating situations or inciting any sort of um conflict and uh i believe

4:29:00it was november 30th of 2023 i actually witnessed bylaw removing tents right before the tree lighting

4:29:08ceremony on december 2nd and it was you know you know we got to protect the city's aesthetics

4:29:15i don't give a rat's ass about the city's aesthetics like i care more about how people

4:29:22are doing in their lives more than how the city looks and if you are making decisions on behalf

4:29:29of people you should feel the same way and you know it i shouldn't have to be here right now

4:29:36none of us should have to be here right now because it's literally your job you get paid to do it

4:29:43to assure there is funding and support for people who have extremely complex trauma

4:29:50people who like i'm assuming none of you on council have ever been unhoused i'm assuming

4:29:56you've never shot up i'm assuming you've never smoked meth you don't know what it's like i don't

4:30:03know what it's like i've had my own times with addictions and with housing precariousness but that

4:30:10it falls short and your words your words really fall mute when you say that you care

4:30:16you're just simply not showing that you care when like okay imagine like a giant with a city of

4:30:23gulf jacket on walked up to your house and just removed and picked it up like a big giant just

4:30:29went like that'd be crazy and that would suck for you and that would traumatize you so i'm just

4:30:36saying like this is no different and you put place yourselves on these really like frightening

4:30:43pedestals that you're making these decisions on behalf of people's livelihoods and it actually

4:30:49like scares me as a youth like i'm kind of scared of you but i'm actually not because i'm actually like

4:30:58gonna be in front of a tent if bylaw ever is trying to place hands on it like

4:31:02they'll place hands on me first i don't care um all this to say

4:31:13i believe that you believe in respect i believe that you believe in love it's valentine's day

4:31:19uh like counts or mayor cam like you you're beckoning us to respect the room

4:31:27like we're just trying to beckon you to respect human life like it's really simple

4:31:35it's really simple yeah there has to be a level of reciprocity and for you to think that it's okay

4:31:41to control uh where people live without addressing the root cause a lot of business owners even spoke

4:31:48about oh we need to address the root cause well what is that we're not clear on what that is and

4:31:53that's that needs to be a further conversation and um yeah i just hope that you can like just simply

4:32:04like don't pass this it's like really disturbing and i hope you have a good day and actually like

4:32:10look inside your heart or some shit like that okay is there any questions for the delegate

4:32:19okay seeing none and i would respectfully ask that we just watch our vulgarity in the room i

4:32:26think that that would be good in a public setting okay so i just asked that um uh oh moro a moro

4:32:34is going to be joining us from uh on the phone i believe and it's mayor guthrie if you could

4:32:41uh hear me if you could just hit star six to unmute yes you're coming through great thank you

4:32:52for joining us and you have up to five minutes if you need it okay wonderful thank you all right

4:32:58so good afternoon mayor cam gassery and the members of the council um my name is amarwa um i am a

4:33:04citizen of wealth a place that has been my home for several years i am a downtown resident and

4:33:09someone who organizes with and for the community through opyrg wealth i'm also a black woman who

4:33:14knows the challenges of being a marginalized person in this community and society as a whole

4:33:19i recognize that my liberation is tied up with others who are also being liberated

4:33:23and it's by those values that i live by and choose to engage in on a regular basis i'm absolutely

4:33:28shocked and dismayed by the bylaw proposal hearing that you have not even consulted the people most

4:33:34affected by this is very concerning and i do not support this public space use bylaw not only does

4:33:41this bylaw not address devastating housing crisis slash shelter and adequacy the city is experiencing

4:33:46it is a growth overreach a policy that can be up for misinterpretation and misuse this is a policy

4:33:52that only places importance on people you deem valuable to society and treats our neighbors

4:33:57trying to survive on the streets like second-class citizens as for the general restrictions this is

4:34:02a clear aim at those who are experiencing houselessness in the city the city of wealth has tried to

4:34:07provide dignified services to our neighbors and on our streets and i want to emphasize the word

4:34:11dignified but we have a long way to go and many more tools in our arsenal before we get to this

4:34:16bylaw there have been countless stories reports and experiences that have been shared through

4:34:21multiple mediums that while these shelters are supposedly doing the best again it was the result

4:34:26of poor funding and resources unclear and ever-changing rules with turnover and unfortunate

4:34:31internal issues that make it difficult for unhoused neighbors to actually stay and feel safe to seek

4:34:36support but should happen is that the city of wealth needs to get housing and shelter under

4:34:41control through strict regulations on the people companies and developers who own these buildings

4:34:46and lands not the human beings that have nowhere to go i've had conversations with a county who are

4:34:51doing their best but their hands are tied because people who do own these homes are not willing to

4:34:57and are not obligated to provide supportive housing instead of carceral options i implore you as our

4:35:02mayor and our city council to seek actual solutions and to find the solutions that currently exist in

4:35:07our ongoing finding people who are already poor and taking them to court if they don't comply to

4:35:12things like telling a bylaw officer their name is not going to solve your problem i also want to

4:35:17say that i am not afraid of being downtown because i actually have a relationship with my neighbors

4:35:21there i do not view discomfort more of a priority compared to those someone's dire situation if you

4:35:27are on the street i know any one of us would struggle with minimal access to washrooms warm spaces

4:35:32supportive clinical and safe use sites people who screw knives and look at you like you're a criminal

4:35:38i don't understand the call for a relocation of people away from a key service provider

4:35:43that has been downtown for as long as i remember longer than some of the businesses that are there

4:35:47i think trauma-informed education and actual relationship building with these people is also

4:35:52integral to understanding that this is a systemic issue i also want to point out that this bylaw

4:35:57doesn't doesn't just affect those who are living rough this bylaw is subjective enough that it will

4:36:02also leave room for people to call bylaw for any reason they see fit as a disturbance this can

4:36:06include demonstrations loitering grassroots services trying to provide aid and more i want to see my

4:36:12city collaborate with the people who are living in the situation and lobby for better affordable

4:36:16housing solutions from the provincial and federal government until we are have actual dignified

4:36:22solutions leave these people alone all we have all as we all go to bed in our safe home where you

4:36:29may share a meal with your loved ones do recreational drugs if that's what you fancy have a washroom

4:36:34to use and wash up on and otherwise have access to the resources that we need please think about

4:36:39everything that contributes to you being able to have that thank you thank you very much for calling

4:36:46in we appreciate your delegation let me see if there's a question there is not but again thank

4:36:52you for joining us thank you thank you all right in person christopher uh luinsky is christopher here

4:37:08okay let's get over that and by video we have dandy linda mood yep just need the camera turned on i

4:37:22believe yeah can you hear me see me we can hear and see you thank you very much for joining us and

4:37:32you have five up to five minutes as well go right ahead beautiful thank you and hello mayor and council

4:37:38my name is dany linda mood and i'm the programs director with water watchers a local environmental

4:37:44NGO who works towards social justice through the unifying lens of water and first and foremost i just

4:37:50want to affirm and echo the sentiments that have been so eloquently and powerfully stated

4:37:56by others in this meeting today the proposed bylaw has sweeping implications that have not

4:38:03been well established well reviewed or ground truthed with our community and i implore you to

4:38:10hear these voices let them guide you and let them move you in your decision making the rest of my

4:38:17time i'd like to spend speaking through the unifying lens of water to illustrate um other

4:38:24ways this proposed bylaw is harmful and unjust specifically that it would create barriers to

4:38:30some community members accessing their human rights and that it does not create environmental

4:38:35outcomes that are beneficial so all life is connected through water we all need it to both

4:38:43survive and to thrive and the ways drinking water access as a human right has been globally upheld

4:38:50is evidence of just how important water is to all humans and in canada that right is supposed to be

4:38:57upheld and delivered by you our local government yet many people in our community don't have access

4:39:04to drinking water or sanitation which is also recognized as a human right some community members

4:39:10only access those services and human rights which are legally mandated to provide all remind you

4:39:17through their proximity to the downtown core or their proximity to critical public services and

4:39:22spaces that are city owned or proximity to our rivers their ability to exist in these public

4:39:28spaces is a critical thread to them accessing their human rights and the proposed bylaw would

4:39:33create systemic barriers to community members accessing their human rights which is morally

4:39:40unacceptable and could expose you the city to further risk and litigation for both failing to

4:39:46meet those duties and for creating barriers to access the other ways you'll face litigation

4:39:54if you pass this bylaw are well evidenced here today and are against your responsibilities as

4:40:00representatives as policymakers and as stewards adjacent to this the proposed bylaw speaks to

4:40:07ways that the under house community members will be further criminalized for the shortcomings of

4:40:11this government's responsibility to ensure housing water and sanitation access the under house should

4:40:16not be further criminalized for trying to exist where they find setting up permissible and safe

4:40:22and last but not least to councillor or works earlier question I also want to respect it

4:40:27respectfully yet categorically reject the premise from the staff presentation earlier that this

4:40:33proposed bylaw has meaningful outcomes for source water protection or for protecting sensitive

4:40:38environmental ecosystems we dedicate our lives that water watchers to protecting water and

4:40:44intimately understand the threats to water here and around the province the risks to source water

4:40:49and ecosystems in this community are from the corporations that are given permits to

4:40:53inappropriately develop and mine and extract from the lands we all depend on a few individuals

4:40:59who are under house community members some of whom are indigenous peoples with inherent

4:41:03connections and treaty rights to the lands and waters here they're not a risk to water and ecosystems

4:41:09in the way that was framed and I just want to be really clear about that so in closing the the

4:41:15purpose of the bylaw in the draft wording states it is to ensure the protection of persons

4:41:22transparently this really means the protection of some people and the criminalization of others

4:41:29and ultimately what this bylaw seeks to do is to create quote unquote safe use of public spaces

4:41:35for some community members while simultaneously scrubbing evidence of the existence of our

4:41:41disadvantaged and under housed community members from other city owned public spaces

4:41:47Mayor Guthrie earlier threatened to clear the chambers so that respectful debate could

4:41:54continue and that people in the room there today that they could go undisturbed let me be clear

4:42:02human rights are not up for debate they're human rights where's the decorum in this bylaw we shouldn't

4:42:08be disturbing and disrupting the lives of under housed folks this bylaw itself is not safe or

4:42:17permissible through the lens of water through the lens of human rights or through the lens of what

4:42:23it means to be a golf community member mayor and council please use your purview today to reject

4:42:30this proposed bylaw and focus your attention on addressing the real human rights problems

4:42:35community members are facing I'd be happy to answer any questions including councillor

4:42:39choose a question on where specifically the bylaw is problematic okay thank you yeah that's your

4:42:45five minutes thank you right on the dot um let me see if there's any follow-up questions

4:42:51there is none so thank you very much thank you for your time and uh Amy Amy main

4:42:59Amy main here no okay Jasper Smith okay um we have Liz Cherry joining us by video oh that's even better

4:43:26it's so clear thank you for being here come on down and uh you can start whenever you're

4:43:36okay um so good afternoon uh Mr Mayor and Council members my name is Liz Cherry and I'm here today

4:43:44to on behalf of the gulf NDP as their vice president I concur with a lot of what has been said

4:43:52today already so I will be brief thank you for the opportunity to speak today the public space

4:44:00use bylaw aims to and I quote regulate the use of certain public space public property within the

4:44:07city of gulf for the protections of persons and property and to promote safe use and enjoyment

4:44:16specifically as we know this bylaw is designed to address concerns about homelessness

4:44:22homeless encampments across the city we cannot talk about those encampments without addressing

4:44:29the problem of homelessness in the city I know that we can agree that appropriate affordable

4:44:36and safe housing is central to the physical mental health and well-being of citizens

4:44:42homelessness as we have heard very loud and clear today is a humanitarian crisis and a human right

4:44:52whether unhoused under housed or in a home precarious situation homelessness is not a lifestyle

4:45:00choice even those who refuse to access shelters when available have their reasons for doing so

4:45:08in gulf we have a housing affordability crisis in Ontario 50 percent of renters are paying over

4:45:1630 percent of their income on rent 25 percent are paying over 50 percent of their income in rent

4:45:24this is compounded by shortage of housing stock and the cost of buying a house has skyrocketed

4:45:30which is resulting in further competition for rentals the most vulnerable groups in our community

4:45:38are over represented in the homeless population which includes women black and indigenous people

4:45:45with disabilities those experiencing mental health and addiction challenges lgbtq plus folk

4:45:52and increasingly the elderly this bylaw is concerned with competing interests of individuals

4:46:00and groups who wish to wish or need to access public spaces in gulf

4:46:06I've heard a lot today from the city staff about the short turnaround that was given for this bylaw

4:46:13but no explanation as to why it was only a given two weeks instead of potentially six months or

4:46:19twelve months the criminal code of Canada defines public space as and I quote any location where

4:46:28the public are entitled to access by right or invitation whether expressed or implied and

4:46:33may include private and commercial space the purpose of which is to ensure freedom of expression

4:46:40equal treatment and respect and to protect individuals in groups from harm that may arise

4:46:46from hate speech for example the city of gulf has been tasked with balancing the human rights

4:46:51of those forced to set up and use encampments due to lack of housing mostly with those who feel

4:46:57that their right to access public spaces is limited both groups have expressed safety concerns in

4:47:04accessing public public spaces but this bylaw however appears to fall heavily on the side of

4:47:10prohibiting and regulating perhaps even criminalising the homeless encampments the restrictions defined

4:47:19sorry the restrictions defined within this bylaw may be used to deny the unhoused access to

4:47:26essential services and necessities for example and again I quote from the bylaw make unauthorised

4:47:32use of utilities including but not limited to electrical gas or water however these essential

4:47:41services which are not readily accessible to those finding themselves homeless in addressing

4:47:46the issue of homeless we must stop blaming the victim the gulf NDNDP proposes that rather than

4:47:53implementing a bylaw that further deprives one of the most vulnerable groups in our community

4:47:58that the city of gulf include within any bylaw details of what the city commits to do to support

4:48:06the homeless people in the community such as increased shelter spaces transition shelters

4:48:13increased provision of shelters for those who are fleeing intimate violence and access to permanent

4:48:19affordable housing access to essential services such as water washrooms showers etc and protection

4:48:27against violence just this morning on marketplace I saw a posting for sale of household items the

4:48:36title for the posting said becoming homeless how sad what a shame in this community in the city of

4:48:44gulf that that is happening thank you thank you for your time thank you and actually I saw that

4:48:50same ad yesterday I saw that exact same ad so I'm glad I'm glad you brought that up I know

4:48:56tragic more than I know exactly which one you're talking about thank you sorry is there any

4:49:01questions at all for this del yet no thank you for being here thank you very much

4:49:09nick calcova is nick here okay and then in the wings you have kim richer is kim here

4:49:21okay you're gonna be next okay and welcome nick uh into your both thank you very much

4:49:34and whenever you're ready you go right ahead my name is nick valkova and I have been a gulf

4:49:38resident for nearly six years I have always lived in and around the downtown area work and have worked

4:49:44downtown on and off for several years and frequent downtown on a regular basis in all my years in the

4:49:50area I have never seen rent this high and housing so difficult to find I personally live paycheck

4:49:55to paycheck and often wonder when I might end up on the street I'm trans and my parents don't support

4:50:01me so that is a real possibility the only reason I don't feel that much fear is because I know I have

4:50:06friends and community members that would support me and I know that you are not those people I have

4:50:13never seen this many encampments in the area and I see it as a warning sign of a much larger issue

4:50:17than what is being addressed by the bylaw being presented here today I strongly believe that the

4:50:22encampments should be permitted to remain as they are until safe housing is accessed by the

4:50:26individuals who need it I am here today to express my disinterest in and disagreement with the public

4:50:32space use bylaw being presented today this bylaw aims to restrict and criminalize encampments around

4:50:37the downtown area one reason I've heard used to defend this bylaw is the fact that the encampments

4:50:42are using public space that should be available to everyone this is a self-contradicting statement

4:50:47if everyone should be allowed to use the public space why are we proposing adding restrictions

4:50:52that would make it nearly impossible for those who need the space to use it you say you are trying

4:50:57to protect the community but the unhoused are part of our community and this bylaw does not

4:51:01protect them it hurts them at the beginning of this meeting you made a land acknowledgement

4:51:06you already know that this land does not belong to you and yet you continue to police it I do not

4:51:11feel that my rights are being restricted by unhoused individuals setting up encampments say in

4:51:16st. george's square which I walk past every day on my way to work it is my belief that resources

4:51:21should be allocated by need my reduced access to this space does not put my life at risk the

4:51:26lives of the individuals who are using the space depend on it recreational activity should not be

4:51:31prioritized over a safe and warm place to sleep you claim that this bylaw's intention to increase

4:51:37safety yet policing the unhoused access to the downtown area is detrimental when they rely on

4:51:42access to supplies health and emergency resources and the safety of being in a populated area as

4:51:48well as with their community and friends forcing people to pack up every day drastically limits

4:51:53the survival gear that they can carry additionally not allowing the use of propane tanks nor electricity

4:51:59increases risk of frostbite and hypothermia which is an urgent matter of safety if you are nervous

4:52:04about fires caused by caused by propane tanks I recommend that you supply a reliable source of

4:52:09electricity to provide heat you can also provide port-a-potty's because indoor public use spaces

4:52:15that can be used for free have dwindled to nearly nothing there is only the library which has limited

4:52:20hours in space and is also policed which is another concern of mine this bylaw may increase

4:52:25police presence in the downtown area which would not make me feel safer and I would much prefer

4:52:30that that budget go towards some more creative solutions for supporting those living in encampments

4:52:35do you remember the booths built set up and taken away for the christmas market the patios built for

4:52:40restaurants downtown are also built incredibly quickly and I find it difficult to understand why

4:52:44this kind of collective effort cannot be organized to protect our most vulnerable population it is

4:52:49presented as a choice to live outside because people are turning down available beds and shelters

4:52:54people make this decision for very understandable reasons ask yourself what would have to happen

4:52:58to you in your life for you to make such a choice 90 cardin was an accessible roof for many and

4:53:04when tenants were wrongfully evicted they had nowhere to go to me it is clear that the luxury of

4:53:09purchasing property which is already inhabited should no longer be allowed landlords should be

4:53:13more limited in their rights to increase rent and people could be taxed for property owned in

4:53:18addition to their own living space those who feel that the presence of campments threatens their

4:53:23rights do not see the unhoused population as human beings moving these people out of sight during the

4:53:28day to maintain a clean looking downtown is barbaric it seems to me that the council staff is seeking

4:53:34an easier way to go about their days without having to face the suffering of unhoused individuals

4:53:38please seek more creative sustainable and longer term solutions to this issue

4:53:43do not push these people out of sight and out of mind thank you very much nick for coming down

4:53:50and in your delegation is there a follow-up at all there isn't but thank you i regret that i had to

4:53:57be here today thank you uh let's see here kim richard yes you are coming down and uh durian

4:54:09hallman is yes here i'm so sorry yes okay great thank you you're in the wings okay

4:54:18welcome to you and whenever you're ready go right ahead i don't know how to follow a lot of those

4:54:24speakers i don't speak as eloquent as some of them um but i'll try my best to not repeat too many

4:54:34things good morning mayor guthrie and city counselors my name is kim richard and i am

4:54:40award three resident asking for you to vote against the bylaw sorry against the public

4:54:46space use bylaw this bylaw in my opinion has created a huge divide within our community

4:54:53i hear words like those people addicts volatile mental and much worse

4:55:01individuals who are without societally sorry societal approved dwelling our sons daughters

4:55:09sisters brothers mothers fathers aunties uncles grandmas and grandpas most of all they are all

4:55:18citizens i believe all citizens deserve to be treated with dignity as a person with lived

4:55:25experience in mental health and addiction challenges and homelessness in a way different time than

4:55:31today's homelessness situation i truly believe that my concerns with this bylaw making things

4:55:39harder for people who are already struggling in our community are valid i stand here today with

4:55:46the privilege of having a home for my family i have running water heat electricity plumbing

4:55:54security safety and much more with having a societal approved home how many of us today

4:56:02sorry how many of us here today have the privilege and the luxury of these items

4:56:08rather than having a response that displaces and criminalize it sorry is displacing and

4:56:15criminalizing individuals who are unhoused can we not come together as a community and do better

4:56:24as a city that has been seen as a leader in many great initiatives why are we unable to pull our

4:56:33resources and coordinate a situation or sorry a solution that does not kick people down

4:56:41when they're already down i believe that this bylaw will increase stigma discrimination

4:56:49and harm towards people who are unhoused and the proof is already happening

4:56:56with the not in my backyard thinking so the nimbyism the hate speech i hear within the community

4:57:04and within some of the speakers here today and the fact that we are here today people need housing

4:57:14and health supports not enforcement people also need to know there's options for a shelter

4:57:24that is safe and secure in my opinion we are not providing safe and secure shelter options

4:57:32in our community with a one size fits all shelter system for our unhoused individuals

4:57:40wealth has gotten so big that we need more shelter options if we are not going not going

4:57:47to have permanent housing solutions forcing people to use a shelter system that does not

4:57:55meet their needs or that takes them away from their community supports is undignified and that

4:58:02is what should be considered criminal what we do not need is a bylaw that opens the city

4:58:11to human rights violation litigation like we see happening in other cities let us not make

4:58:18the same mistakes other cities are making i believe that everyone should have a safe stable and

4:58:24affordable place to call home and access to the supports they need i urge you not to support this

4:58:33bylaw and instead focus on solutions that support people listening to the city's presentation today

4:58:43i heard a lot about enforcement and permissible i heard a lot about wellington county and the

4:58:51stepping stone and their responsibilities um i heard a lot about the by name list and i can tell

4:59:01you as one individual here today i can i know 20 people right now that are not connected to services

4:59:11that are not on the by name list that have barely had any contact with our shelter system

4:59:17and i can't say what those reasons are i'm not saying that those individuals aren't doing a great

4:59:23job i'm just saying that we can do better as a community thank you thank you kim oh and just

4:59:29one last thing i want to be part of the solution not part of the problem all right thank you thank

4:59:34you for ending on that um is there any any questions for kim hearing and seeing none thank you very

4:59:41much thank you uh dorian i was told is here yep perfect come on down and tomah is tomah here

4:59:54okay perfect you're in the wings welcome and thank you very much for waiting sorry you're

5:00:02near the end but uh we appreciate that go right ahead whenever you're ready yeah i'll try to make

5:00:08this quick because i'm sure everybody's tired um so my name is dorian holman and i'm opposed to the

5:00:13public space use bylaw i have been living in guelph my whole life downtown for the past four years

5:00:19as guelph has been ranked the 12th most expensive city in canada to rent in had i not found a roommate

5:00:25already living in rent controlled housing i could not afford to still live here with regards to the

5:00:30public safety concerns raised in this bylaw i want to address personal safety concerns that those

5:00:36who claim to support this bylaw have brought up i have to say supposed supporters seem to be middle

5:00:41class individuals removed from poverty using this meeting as a platform to express their irrelevant

5:00:47biases and dehumanizing views i heard the word disgusting referring to people a lot which is

5:00:53interesting to me so um just a part of an abc news article entitled why experts say some unhoused people

5:01:00are unfairly assumed to be dangerous by nicole wetzman october 17th 2023 fear of danger far exceeds

5:01:07the actual risk of danger people also often think homelessness is a bigger problem and a greater risk

5:01:13if it is more visible to them according to research published in the journal violence and victims by

5:01:19springer publishing around 14 to 21 percent of on-house people are estimated to have been the

5:01:25victim of violence compared with around two percent of the general population this is anecdotal

5:01:31but i wanted on record that as someone who lives right across from the encampment in st george

5:01:35square and walks past frequently i have never once felt threatened by any of my unhoused neighbors

5:01:41i have seen and talked to people who are understandably stressed out and upset which some may interpret

5:01:47as a threat to their safety if they're unfamiliar with with those kinds of expression but discomfort

5:01:53does not equal a real threat business owners are worried about loss of profits but unable to come up

5:01:59with a solution beyond not in my backyard a tired declaration we have heard again and again so i ask

5:02:06you to consider your own implicit biases about vulnerable demographics and whether that colors

5:02:11your support for this proposed bylaw um in addition to a vacancy tax which has been mentioned multiple

5:02:19times already implemented in toronto there is as far as i know nothing in comate canadian law

5:02:24stating cities cannot seize clearly abandoned property these properties could be turned into

5:02:29temporary shelter at no cost or into longer term low income housing development i can't answer any

5:02:35questions about that because that is not confirmed it is just something that i heard and thought that

5:02:40i would bring up because nobody else has brought it up um so in conclusion according to the future

5:02:47gulf strategic plan gulf aims to create quote an inclusive connected prosperous city where we

5:02:54look after each other and our environment what better way to prove it than to redirect the

5:02:58resources in this proposal toward innovative solutions and prove that gulf truly looks after

5:03:03each other including the most vulnerable of us this city will only be prosperous when we all

5:03:10prosper thank you thank you very much for your delegation as well uh and and your ideas um

5:03:18is there any questions for the delegate seeing none thank you very much uh tama please come on up

5:03:29and last we would have uh martin collier who will be joining us by phone but thank you for waiting

5:03:37and uh you can start whenever you're ready i'll wait for the slide to be put up please oh okay yep

5:03:42there you go thanks slide one there we go okay to me it's evident that the staff have identified

5:03:58many needs and obstacles also i have some concerns about the proposed remedies to these

5:04:05obstacles that we kind of identified and first of all i want to start with what was really brought

5:04:10out in the very beginning what's the intent of this bylaw and what i see it's to force and remove

5:04:16the existing shelters and we're going to disperse them all around the downtown core we're going to

5:04:23send everybody to go find these new places all over town and it's a guessing game how that's

5:04:28going to happen is what i see um we're going to send them out with a complexity of prohibitions

5:04:35regulations and rules that they need to follow i figure a checklist will be needed and a tape

5:04:41measure because there's a bunch of measurements right and we got a comply and then there's numbers

5:04:46too i've heard about the number of encampments and the distances between them of course so what are

5:04:51the some of the likely negative outcomes of this bylaw i think that's a good idea to look at what i

5:04:58see is that we're showing the most vulnerable people in this community the marginalized ones

5:05:03that we did not really wanted to get out of my face i don't want to see you right

5:05:09and also i think it's going to cause a lot of difficulty and suffering now i went out for a

5:05:14walk the other day i was recommended that i do it if you look at this map here you see the

5:05:19access where the encampment is most of us need to eat every day and the food is like 70 steps away

5:05:27if you go to the royal steed mission from that encampment and hope house is the other place

5:05:34and that's about 200 steps away so all the services that these people need that we need are right

5:05:41there in the center this is the core problem and now this bylaw proposes to blast that

5:05:49all around town i don't see how that solves anything at all so what's a viable alternative

5:05:58i think bringing everybody together i've heard of this i've read this it's amazing

5:06:03we know that government needs to work together the political parties need to work together

5:06:09stop the fighting right stop the making criminals stop the forcing people out of their place

5:06:17and start encouraging and inspiring i think that's the way to go here so i have a proposed

5:06:25solution for this and instead of scattering why not bring together and the water work

5:06:33presentation was amazing the lands that have been designated not to use i think i'll say it the or

5:06:41is the place to put them on that property where we can create this great big space

5:06:48where everybody can come together and we can create what i consider to be a a holistic wellness

5:06:53haven tiny homes could be erected there gardening could be done there that would be a real tangible

5:07:00solution all the services could be directed toward that all in one place rather than scattering them

5:07:11so without going into greater detail because i know you don't want to talk about that so much

5:07:15you want to talk about this bylaw i'd appreciate the second slide up and this is my statement on

5:07:21this bylaw i think these are inhumane directives without defined beneficial outcomes like where does

5:07:27anything point to a beneficial outcome here who wants to sleep in a shelter tonight maybe if you're

5:07:34homeless who wants to do that who in here has slept in a shelter has slept in an acampment

5:07:41i heard there was nobody that got talked to down there in those encampments so during the break i

5:07:46went and my new friend that i brought along he lives in the encampments he told me his story why

5:07:53he's why he's there briefly he doesn't even want to be there but they need to be there right now so

5:07:58that's visible to show there's an opportunity right i thank you for bringing this bylaw up

5:08:05because it's brought everybody together it's brought us all together really quickly right we all

5:08:10had like 10 days or 11 days of stuff to prepare i only had a couple days to prepare for this let's

5:08:16take care of this let's all get together and help here right and i guess i'm done any questions

5:08:27you have you do have 30 seconds if you thought that was your bell to stop i just want to make

5:08:30sure you knew that no i appreciate that there's lots more but really let's look at this bylaw do we

5:08:37really want to force people let's show love let's show compassion let's bring together let's use our

5:08:45resources to create something wonderful like an enchanted park okay thank you thank you very much

5:08:53we appreciate it i don't think there's any questions no you're good thank you and we are with our last

5:09:01on the phone martin collier martin if you do star six on your phone it will unmute and we can hear

5:09:15you go right ahead you have up to five minutes if you need it just following on the on the previous

5:09:22delegation about love and compassion i did want to wish everybody happy valentine's day i'm not a

5:09:28housing expert but as a transportation planner i do connect the dots between how we get around

5:09:34and land use and public space and housing are huge land use issues as you know i have much

5:09:41compassion for vulnerable citizens living rough and wealth and across canada indeed around the world

5:09:47they have experienced enough trauma grief and loss so i encourage you to put the public use

5:09:52bylaw on hold and focus on real solutions the residents for a safe p-vale avenue supports

5:09:59sustainable transportation infrastructure where it meets the mobility needs of the most people at

5:10:04the lowest cost but not where it will exacerbate issues related to public safety our environment

5:10:10and city finances especially in this post-covid or a covert altered world we live in we promote

5:10:17meaningful engagement and evidence-based planning that is based on the premise that existing

5:10:21infrastructure be used wisely without impact to guelz natural heritage since 2015 we've asked three

5:10:29different wealth councils to redesign one kilometer speed bale avenue between woelich and stephenson

5:10:35so it is safe for all road users and we've asked to delete the emma url bridge from city budgets

5:10:43what do these two projects have to do with the public space bylaw and need for housing our most

5:10:48vulnerable citizens you might ask if completed by 2027 based on current designs those two projects

5:10:56will have a combined cost of almost 57 million dollars most to be spent over the next two years

5:11:02but we calculated that council could save almost 22 million if they chose to delete the emma url

5:11:08bridge and de-scope speed bale construction as was recently done with two kilometers of york road

5:11:14in the city's east end which saved 50 million fortunately the majority of work has yet to be

5:11:20tendered so given the housing crisis we're facing and the fact that the provincial and federal

5:11:25governments are currently carrying a debt load of 1.2 trillion dollars council should pass the

5:11:31motion to reallocate the 22 million in savings in speed bale and deleting emma url bridge to the

5:11:37great solutions that have been already proposed here today these include building structured

5:11:43encampments and tiny homes with heating electricity and plumbing building more shelters and other

5:11:48transitional housing having meaningful consultation with vulnerable community members and as the

5:11:54hospital requests make sure that the city and county leave the collection of meaningful housing

5:12:01health and homelessness data that includes both the supply and demand for housing options

5:12:06i also suggest using some of that 22 million for several other solutions free or low cost

5:12:12transit passes for the unhoused adapting city-owned parking garage is starting with the 23 million

5:12:18dollar wilson park aid which is only at 40 capacity the top three floors could be quickly revamped

5:12:26take a look at the city of cambridge who's looking at whether it's feasible to build housing above

5:12:31municipal parking lots wealth should do the same the money can also go to additional city staff to

5:12:37make sure that housing happens much more quickly than it is and also give grants to non-profit

5:12:44organizations and housing co-ops that have the expertise to expedite this work and raise funds

5:12:50from business maybe we should start with the development community as well as pharmaceutical

5:12:55industries don't spend more money on this bylaw and possible litigation which the staff report

5:13:01says could be up to one million dollars instead quickly make a motion to open up the budget and

5:13:07reallocate the 22 million dollars from the speed veil project and emma url bridge project to the

5:13:12housing solutions that have been so eloquently presented today thank you very much thank you

5:13:19and let me see if there's a follow-up question for you there isn't thank you very much take care

5:13:25thanks um okay uh that was it for our delegations and thank you very much to everyone here and

5:13:35my colleagues and staff uh for for listening and and and engaging with with the ideas and

5:13:43the commentary that was presented so thank you um what's going to happen now it looks like there

5:13:52seems to be some uh some requests or some efforts to actually move into a closed session of council

5:14:01to seek legal advice and we'd like to kind of get that first uh before we continue so um

5:14:10you know we've heard a lot of things here and so we just need to get uh that legal advice so

5:14:15councillor Busuttil and councillor Goller have have agreed uh to move a motion for that it's

5:14:21going to come up on the screen and I'll just read it out for everybody that the council of the city

5:14:26at Guelph now hold a meeting that is closed to the public pursuant to section 239 to F of the

5:14:31municipal act to consider advice that is subject to solicitor client privilege including communications

5:14:38necessary for that purpose related to the public space use bylaw um so can I uh look to call the

5:14:48vote on that right away yep okay is there anyone against that okay everyone's in favor of that

5:14:55just for everyone in the room are people listening just in case this is like completely new for you

5:15:00so we are going to seek legal advice which under the act what you just saw there were allowed to

5:15:05receive in confidence um however once that's done uh we always come out into the public realm and I

5:15:13always do a very very high level summary um of what was received as information or if we directed

5:15:21anything um it's just so that you're aware now I don't know how long this will take

5:15:26because it just depends on how many kind of legal questions and advice that we are given

5:15:31and then once we are back out in the open session then we will we will continue to discuss debate

5:15:37consider whatever more is in front of us um so with that um just be aware it could be it could

5:15:44be a while and if you're here great um if not you could always go to guelph.ca slash live if you

5:15:52have your phone or whatever and and once uh we're back like that will come up on on the live stream

5:15:58so you'll be aware um as well okay so you can watch live from there if you want to or come back

5:16:03all right thank you very much oh councillor Allt did you have a question

5:16:09quick one can we have five-minute bathroom break between meetings please uh yes so council staff

5:16:15will do like a five-minute break before we meet into closed sounds good thank you okay I'm going to

7:06:28call uh the open session back in to order okay so bear with me everybody trying to

7:06:39follow the bouncing ball here so uh let me do the let me do the closed summary first

7:06:47so as you know we went into closed session to seek legal advice we did that got lots of legal advice

7:06:55there was no direction uh given at all so it was just receiving of information from staff

7:07:01in regards to this issue that's it now we're back out here however we have another separate issue

7:07:12that we must attend to before we continue with this issue so I am about to ask a motion of council

7:07:21to recess this issue which means basically pausing we are then going to have another

7:07:31separate issue that we have to deal with and after that issue is dealt with we will be coming back

7:07:41to this issue and see how that goes from there so a little bit of a bouncing ball so um

7:07:49and I would imagine just going to pause for one second I just want to I'm trying to give people

7:07:55sort of some timing roughly about how long things are here so just one second so um we have a quick

7:08:18educational session session I'm sorry uh in regards to this separate matter we have to deal with

7:08:24that's on the agenda a different agenda and then we have to actually take care of that item and I'm

7:08:30going to guess it's going to be between an hour to an hour and a half and that starts at six o'clock

7:08:35technically so when this separate issue is done we're probably looking at like maybe between seven

7:08:42and seven thirty-ish maybe uh and then we're back to this okay so um that's just the way it's going

7:08:50to have to be so I'm going to have to ask a motion um at this time just to recess this meeting for now

7:08:58do worship just a point of order is it possible to postpone the other meeting to another day

7:09:04no yeah okay yeah okay yeah yeah yeah we honestly thought that we would be done this issue

7:09:12which is fine it's totally fine that we're not we're just we just have to move things around

7:09:16so uh Rodry sorry Councillor Goller would you move the recess okay and seconder for the recess please

7:09:22uh Councillor Klassen okay is there anyone against recessing this meeting that's nobody that's

7:09:29unanimous okay so technically that meeting is on pause right now um Council we need to stay here

7:09:37for a little bit of an educational um component to the next item we have to consider but the

7:09:44clerks need about five to seven minutes to change over the technical aspects uh the technology and

7:09:50things like that to get us ready for that next issue so um I would say that it's probably best

7:09:56to actually have a break uh clerks what do you want five or ten minutes through you Mr. Mayor five

7:10:03to seven minutes we have plenty of time and I'll just remind members of council you can stay in the

7:10:06same remote meeting if you are connected remotely you'll see the splash screen come up and we'll

7:10:10advise when we've got the live stream and whatnot set up again all right uh we're going to come back

7:10:14here at 5 20 just so everyone has a time so 5 20 we're coming back and we're starting just the

7:10:19educational portion and that should probably take maybe about 10 minutes or so and then um

7:10:25we'll have a little bit of a break before the six o'clock meeting starts on that separate issue

7:10:31okay so thank you again for sticking with us and if anyone is still either here or uh is watching

7:10:38online like gulf.ca slash live is going to still go you just might see us for a couple hours switch

7:10:44to this other issue but then as I said we'll be coming back okay thank you everyone uh 30 second

7:28:30warning for um my colleagues online okay if you could turn your camera on once you are there that

7:28:36would be great thank you okay thank you for sticking with us again everybody um we're back into open

7:29:31session and uh

7:29:37hi my name is cam um uh we're back into the um into the meeting that we started earlier today at

7:29:4510 o'clock uh so we took a recess technically and we are out of recess now and we're back to the

7:29:52meeting that we were in earlier and uh I should have had this ready please forgive me there we go

7:29:59and it's under the public space use bylaw so just to be clear for everyone jumping back in

7:30:08uh I am going to ask uh councillor uh galler I believe and uh seconded by councillor

7:30:19Boussatil I was told is willing to put the three the three recommendations on the uh on the floor

7:30:26for us uh and then um uh councillor Busuttil has uh mentioned uh that uh an amendment I guess

7:30:38in regards to number one could be brought forward I believe it's been seconded by councillor O'Rourke

7:30:44is that okay yeah um thank you uh so I'll turn the mic over uh to you councillor Busuttil

7:31:01oh thank you it's late um so I would like to uh amend or put a recommendation to defer

7:31:09recommendation number one that it be deferred until the appeal of the corporation of the

7:31:15city of Kingston versus DOE 2023 ONSC 6662 decision is available and that staff bring back a report

7:31:25of that time for council to consider a bylaw that takes into consideration additional information

7:31:31and available legal decision uh decisions um do you want me to speak to it now or wait

7:31:38if a seconder um it's it's uh because it's a deferral there's like kind of nothing to say

7:31:45on the item it's just you've placed it um so it stands on its own it's been seconded by councillor

7:31:51O'Rourke uh so because there's no debate no questions no nothing on that particular item

7:31:59I do have to uh call the vote on that okay all right um so uh I will call I will call the vote

7:32:09right away okay is there anyone against the deferral okay only three all right got three

7:32:22billings and uh Gibson okay and uh thank you so that passes and then we'll just go to I'll call

7:32:31the vote on number two and three I'll call that vote right now you worship questions or comments

7:32:41to staff okay let me just go to councillor O'Rourke first for a second sorry Mayor Guthrie was that

7:32:47the vote on the motion to defer yes and so then we don't need to vote on one is that correct okay

7:32:56thanks sorry and um so I'm only to number two and three okay and uh so over to you councillor

7:33:08Guller just maybe we could just do it in in order here our questions only um did you have questions

7:33:16on number does anyone have any questions on number two if we could have them on the screen

7:33:21your worship just yeah absolutely just to kind of keep it focused number two only questions

7:33:36and then I'll go to number three okay so go ahead I am good now seeing this on the screen thank you

7:33:44your worship okay does anyone have any questions only on number two councillor Busuttil please

7:33:49yes thank you and through uh through the mayor to the staff I was just curious why um the um numbers

7:33:57the monthly statistics uh that we're requesting from the county is that to kind of bookend

7:34:04the Waterloo decision around demonstrating that there is available with the quantity as and so on

7:34:13through the mayor to councillor Busuttil yes that was certainly the intention um if the uh

7:34:17originally the originally proposed bylaw had passed we uh it was the feeling that respecting

7:34:24that Waterloo decision that it would be important to have those statistics but not withstanding that

7:34:30I think in our quick discussion in the last few minutes even with the deferral of recommendation

7:34:35number one we feel that it's really important information for us to still have um as we move

7:34:40forward uh regardless of any bylaw or not it's important for you as a council to know what

7:34:45progress the county is making in terms of addressing that need for permanent shelter so that's why

7:34:51we were pleased to see that you were still looking at uh at at least considering recommendation

7:34:57number two thank you thank you and over to councillor O'Rourke thanks mayor Guthrie through you to staff

7:35:04on recommendation two where it says that uh county of Wellington supply the necessary resources and

7:35:11tools is that where the conversation will take place regarding are there options to provide

7:35:16electricity running water washrooms so number one was deferred but does that conversation and does

7:35:22that work continue under recommendation two through the mayor to council or work um number two was

7:35:29specifically worded with the intention of moving towards permanent shelter it wasn't uh originally

7:35:36as drafted by staff intended to look at temporary structured encampments or servicing of encampments

7:35:44it was specific to the permanent shelter uh considerations i would say that coming out of

7:35:51the health and housing symposium that is work that was already and is already underway in a

7:35:56parallel process and that will continue with what i believe is the third date for that symposium of

7:36:03april the seventh so i think you can look to get more information probably at that time great i just

7:36:08want to make sure that piece isn't dropped thank you anything more on two no let me call the vote

7:36:15on number two then okay and anyone against that that's unanimous thank you any questions on number

7:36:25three which is sort of the advocacy piece uh i'll go to clausen and then pucitil

7:36:34yes through you mr. mayor to staff i have a question with regard to some of the wording

7:36:39um would there be benefit to adding the federal government to this um this motion um

7:36:51yeah in that case then okay i'd like to move an amendment um and i can send wording to uh clerks

7:36:59about the changes uh councillor pucitil while that amendment to add the federal government's

7:37:09being considered did you have a question as well that was my my amendment and my question as well

7:37:14thank you great minds you have a built-in seconder here then okay so we'll just wait for that amendment

7:37:21to pop up uh on adding the federal government in there and then we'll call the vote okay just

7:37:27give us a second yeah you have the floor uh did you want to maybe just maybe move the amendment

7:38:44first and then i'll let you speak to it okay so officially moved and seconded by councillor

7:38:48pucitil that we're adding uh the federal government into section three there for the advocacy we

7:38:53will come up on the screen in a second but go ahead and speak to it okay thank you um so today

7:39:00we've heard from so many different delegates in the community and i really appreciate all the people

7:39:04who have who took the time to sit here uh this afternoon and talk to us um the reason i want to

7:39:11make these amendments is to bring the federal government into this because this is supposed

7:39:16to be a holistic we need to address this problem holistically with all levels of government not

7:39:21just provincial but federal as well and of course municipal and the second part of this is

7:39:27i just changed the language from um i changed it to address the crisis because i think it's

7:39:34important to address that we we have a crisis of of housing of course but also mental health and

7:39:41substance issues um and i think a lot of the people who came in to delegate today regardless of

7:39:47whether they were businesses or people in the community advocating on behalf of the unhoused

7:39:53community i think we're actually facing the same issues um i think it's i think it's a

7:39:58community crisis and that we need to address it together it's there's no sides it's it's let's

7:40:04how do we how do we address this together um and i think that addressing that it is a crisis is

7:40:10important and i'll end it there thank you so now that i'm sitting over here you're gonna have to

7:40:17find someone else to second the motion councillor gohler whether oh he's back

7:40:27do you sorry point of order can we just ask for the motion to be put on the screen

7:40:32yes it's coming yeah they're just uh just putting it up right now thank you please do okay uh my

7:42:14amendment reads that guelph's advocacy efforts continue with the association of municipalities

7:42:19ontario the provincial government and the federal government to address the need for

7:42:23greater municipal funding to deal with the housing instability issues legislative reform and to

7:42:27address public space use bylaws and greater health care funding to address the crisis in our community

7:42:33connected to homelessness mental health and substance use issues perfect are you okay with

7:42:39seconding that still okay uh so i'm going to call the vote on that i don't think there's any questions

7:42:46okay on that amendment is anyone against that nobody that's unanimous i'm going to call the vote

7:42:53then on number three as amended now okay so back to number three as amended calling the vote on that

7:43:00anyone against that nobody that is unanimous as well there's a few more motions that are flying

7:43:07around and councillor Caron you and i were um take a look at the email that you just got okay

7:43:15because it looks like you and i are aligned so please look at that as i go to councillor gohler

7:43:20who sent uh who sent a few things through then i'll then i'll go to you and i can discuss whatever

7:43:25as well councillor you and just a councillor Klassen to turn off your microphone okay

7:43:30yeah go ahead thank you worship i've just sent an updated version um to to clerks which should be

7:43:37leaving my inbox soon um i apologize for the delay um speak to it okay um that

7:43:51uh my concern here is with regards to fire safety um particularly on on an encampment specifically

7:43:59my motion is that staff work with wellingham county front line workers and in-house community

7:44:04members to enhance our encampments on city properties and rural allowance operating procedure

7:44:10to include fire prevention education for community members staying in encampments in wealth

7:44:16and i don't know if i if i have a sender for this i see councillor Caton will second thank you

7:44:24you have the floor if you want to just quick just quickly highlight what the why i mean

7:44:27you kind of did already but go ahead we've had a couple of fires um and both of those fires

7:44:31there were propane tanks um one of the things looking through um the the the report that was

7:44:38issued yesterday uh talked about education and i'm hearing from our delegates today it was to

7:44:45work together with people who are living in encampments to update our procedures so i think

7:44:52this would be something that in lieu of passing a bylaw because we are waiting now for for several

7:44:58months possibly for a bylaw to come into place this gives direction for staff to to start working

7:45:04on that education and to work with people who are living in encampments so that we can do

7:45:11so we can hopefully prevent future fires in encampments in wealth okay um i have a question

7:45:21for sure to staff but you first councillor o'rourke thanks margath re through you to

7:45:26deputy co-clack bush because the fire department falls on your area i would be under the assumption

7:45:34that this was happening already and so it is additional education acquired or is this already

7:45:41happening um so through the mayor councillor o'rourke i i fire prevention absolutely is an active uh

7:45:50division within our fire services department and i think we would take the feedback that we've

7:45:56received and work with our partners anyways to endeavor um to increase education for community

7:46:03members staying in encampments so i don't know that the the motion is specifically needed because

7:46:10this is operational work that staff already are undertaking in terms of how our fire prevention

7:46:15staff have been engaging um and certainly we would want to continue that anyways um and connect in

7:46:24with our social services partners and work directly with community members so i think that this motion

7:46:31perhaps amplifies that but it is already part of the work that is happening that our frontline

7:46:37staff are doing um and if you think back to the motion that you passed calling on uh departments

7:46:44to work together in terms of the checks that we're doing into encampments, Guelph fire was one of the

7:46:48departments that we listed as was Guelph paramedic services so that work that is already ongoing it

7:46:54was happening and we will continue to do it so uh i guess my only concern would be if you didn't pass

7:47:01this motion we're still not going to stop doing that because under the purview of the fire chief

7:47:06he has a responsibility to do fire prevention and education so to the extent that my assurance is

7:47:12that that work is underway uh reassure you that's great if you pass the motion that's great

7:47:18if you don't pass the motion then we might be in a bit of conflict okay and three america three two

7:47:24miscollect bush um keeping in mind the conversations today about trauma informed approaches with the

7:47:32fire department just work with the social services agencies to see you know what the best way to do

7:47:37that is and it's not just like a truck pulling up and and us saying hey do it this way or don't

7:47:42right so there is can you just give me some assurances that that really is done in a trauma

7:47:47informed way uh through the marital council work absolutely everything that we do when we're connecting

7:47:51with individuals living in sensitive situations like this is to work through our partners like

7:47:56stepping stone for that very reason because sometimes people in a uniform whether it's fire

7:48:01paramedics police bylaw officers sometimes there can be an intimidation factor just associated with

7:48:06someone showing up in a uniform and so i think that was what was so key about that motion that uh you

7:48:12passed and that work that is underway now that is being led by uh dustin grok and anthony dolcetti

7:48:18to connect our uh our departments in with those frontline social service agencies so that we make

7:48:26sure to your point that we are connecting with people in a way that is accessible um that isn't

7:48:32just simply someone in a uniform showing up okay great thanks thanks i had some questions but they've

7:48:39answered um uh you know 90 of the way here um on this so you know for for time wise i'm good thank

7:48:49you for the answers uh so how about i call the vote on this then okay or is anyone against this

7:48:58all right perfect that's unanimous thank you sorry councillor did you have another one or no was it

7:49:03just that one that's it that's it okay uh and then maybe i'll go to my valentine's uh councillor

7:49:11koran uh to to table the other one uh what's coming up here go for it public watching let's uh let's

7:49:21clarify that that is because we had some alignment on uh on on getting the public engagement side of

7:49:29this done and that that for me mr mayor was a key missing piece to this and i know uh our staff just

7:49:36did not have the capacity in 11 days to do this work but that doesn't mean that we can't correct

7:49:42that wrong so um i would move that until the decision of kankston is resolved uh that um staff

7:49:51are directed to um go back and propose uh an engagement protocol using our standard procedures

7:50:00and specifically that that engagement ensures that those with lived experiences are incorporated

7:50:07into the report and also the outcomes from the county housing and health symposium and given

7:50:14given staff resources i know that means that um we do need to pause something else and although

7:50:21light pollution is something i have long asked for on our uh bylaw review and something i was

7:50:28really looking forward to um i think that the situation and the seriousness of what we're facing

7:50:34with um with those in our community experiencing homelessness that that has to take precedence

7:50:41so the motion includes um uh direction to staff to pause the dark sky bylaw engagement at this time

7:50:50okay councillor Goller was going to second that uh for for me and for lienne so i mean sorry

7:50:56councillor caron but calling would like to just jump in as a staff response uh so through the mayor

7:51:01to council uh just a challenge with that wording uh the dark sky bylaw engagement was completed on

7:51:07february the 11th and so all that's left is the staff reporting back so unfortunately that does

7:51:12not free up engagement capacity for us we would go away and look at how we could handle uh this

7:51:19new engagement that you've proposed next up was to be the engagement on the fireworks bylaw so we

7:51:24will have to look at the timing of uh how we can fit this work in um and so i i think you could

7:51:34pass the motion without that end a little bit about dark sky bylaw um and then leave it to staff

7:51:40to uh come back just with the caveat that we may at some point in the future be letting you know

7:51:46that the engagement timeline on the fireworks bylaw has been stretched a bit if we need to to

7:51:50accommodate this thank you dc a o clock push um i think that the resource capacity needs to be in

7:51:56your hand so if my seconder is okay with it i'll remove the second clause from that motion um and

7:52:02let you come back as part of um the report back on the 27th everyone's good with that um uh so i'll

7:52:12just i have to go through the formality here so councillor caron you're going to remove the first

7:52:18one that had it all in there councillor Goller you're okay with removing it anyone in council

7:52:22against that no councillor caron is now moving it uh just without that ending part referencing

7:52:28the capacity issue there it is councillor Goller you're okay to second that now any other questions

7:52:35before i call the vote councillor downer please and busadil as well yeah i this is maybe to staff

7:52:40or maybe even the mover so i i'm trying to sort of square this in my mind at this hour um how

7:52:50the kinkston decision is going to inform the bylaw so we're going to go out with a bylaw

7:52:59that we're going to go out for public engagement on a bylaw that's not going to be the bylaw

7:53:06because we're waiting for the decision on the kinkston one so this i i don't i don't want to engage

7:53:12i don't want to engage the public on a bylaw and and it could be that you know the kinkston ruling

7:53:20may be that you know we might have to drop a large part of our this bylaw and we've taken all this

7:53:27time to engage the public and it's not bylaw so can i ask staff like what your thoughts are on that

7:53:35am i thinking this outright or like um like i could see about i could see what i would like to do is

7:53:42wait for the decision from kinkston and then and do take our bylaw or what we might propose as any

7:53:49changes and then do the public engagement i just i'm not sure that we're doing because because the

7:53:54bylaw might be flawed and have to be changed so through the mayor i think we're all nodding because

7:54:02that makes sense that that is a challenge with the way that it's laid out it would be preferable to

7:54:08wait given that the first recommendation has been deferred wait until we hear that result from kinkston

7:54:14then do engagement and bring it back to council for your consideration the other consideration we

7:54:20have to take into is the the federal response to the um to the encampment issues so i i just don't

7:54:28see the point in going out to the public on a bylaw that we're not going to in act like we're not even

7:54:34going to we'll change and then you'd have to go back out again so we'd have to do a double

7:54:41so can i just jump into try i'm trying to help us hone into the to what this is would the wording

7:54:46be as easy as just an amendment to change the word until to once to once the decision of kinkston

7:54:54is resolved that engagement then occur on the proposed bylaw until they like so yeah staff

7:55:01for those online staff are nodding their head that it could be as easy as that um so that the catch

7:55:07that councillor downer just said um doesn't occur now um so i can't move an amendment on that but i

7:55:15had a few hands go up i'll go to yep i'm going to councillor Caron uh and then uh i'll go to councillor

7:55:22clausen but just just be aware to maybe rectify this catch you could someone could move an amendment

7:55:27to change the word to once yeah so normally we do public engagement before we draft a bylaw we go out

7:55:34and we we do the engagement and then we use the that engagement input to draft the bylaw we've done

7:55:41backwards here so i'm suggesting we go and we we fill in that missing gap so maybe the engagement

7:55:48that we're talking about is not engagement on the proposed bylaw it's just engagement on use of public

7:55:55space for shelter and we leave it open to just that subject matter and not have the engagement

7:56:03relate to the proposed bylaw that's on the table before us today and i'm willing to to rephrase

7:56:08it withdraw this motion and rephrase it to that um to that direction um but i'd like to hear from

7:56:14from staff if that open-ended engagement is of benefit to any any proposed framework that they're

7:56:23going to come back to come back with um through the mayor to council cron um certainly we could go

7:56:33away and look at doing public engagement at a higher level rather than the details of the

7:56:39bylaw and try to structure it in a way that isn't sort of notwithstanding what may or may not happen

7:56:46in Kingston um and do some engagement um so i think it's probably a mix of what you're all

7:56:54discussing which is we could look at doing some engagement in the next few months and then wait

7:57:00and see what the Kingston ruling says and decide if we need to do any further engagement before we

7:57:04bring you back a bylaw i don't know how you would want to word that in a motion um but i think what

7:57:11is probably the best is send staff away we've heard all of this feedback and we will put together

7:57:17an engagement process um that helps us get to a point where we can bring something back to you

7:57:23again once the Kingston ruling has been rendered and then the last piece is that we will then consider

7:57:30how to incorporate that within work plans for bylaw reviews. Councillor Caron do you want to just

7:57:40contemplate that then just as i go to the two other or three other questions? I did contemplate that

7:57:46and i've provided an open-ended new version that may help address that and again recognizing that

7:57:52this is coming back at the end of the month and that the direction is just for staff to develop

7:57:58a plan for public consultation we want to see what that plan is. Councillor Caron can i just jump in

7:58:04just sorry to interrupt you i just want to make sure it's really clear this none of this is coming

7:58:08back at the end of the month we are sitting as if this is a council meeting this isn't this isn't

7:58:14considered like a committee meeting so like whatever we do here is just direction except for the

7:58:19first one which was deferred right so um so all this other stuff like this is it it's today this

7:58:26is direction just want to make sure you're clear on that go ahead you still have the floor sorry

7:58:35councillor caron you're you're muted i think you're muted i withdraw the current motion just to be

7:58:41clean on process and i've provided clerks with a replacement motion um that is let me just let me

7:58:49do the procedural thing so you've removed it seconded by councillor Goller who also agrees to

7:58:55remove it is anyone against that nobody we got no motion on the floor i'm back to you councillor

7:59:01caron you've sent something into the clerks you said i said i sent something to clerks it's a

7:59:05replacement motion that provides a little more open-ended um latitude for staff so that they're

7:59:12developing a plan for public consultation okay we're going to get that up on the screen and it's on

7:59:18the subject of public use of public space for shelter so it is much wider it's not about this

7:59:24proposed bylaw and it is uh uh hopefully addresses um dca o clock bushes comments okay so this has been

7:59:40seconded by councillor Busuttil and um if you don't mind uh to the mover can i go to a question from

7:59:47someone in the room or do you still need to go no you're good councillor uh downer and then councillor

7:59:51gibson well so all we're going to do now between now and the ruling is develop a plan for public

7:59:59consultation we're not going to do any public consultation between now and the ruling is that

8:00:04what you're saying councillor caron no we want to see the plan for consultation and it will come back

8:00:10to council and then we will give direction because the other thing that i heard dca o clock bush

8:00:16say is that they're going to report back on what other bylaw work they're doing that needs to be

8:00:22taken off the table in order to prioritize this work so that would come back when we see the

8:00:27consultation plan so when are you expecting when can staff come back with a plan because i think

8:00:35we've already said that we wanted the public consultation to align with our public consult

8:00:42public engagement framework already so we kind of know what kind of plan they're going to come up

8:00:48with i just think we just need to i don't think they need to come back with a plan they can come

8:00:54back with telling us what they might have to drop but i don't know if they're going with

8:00:58their framework there's no new plan it's the framework that the city has for public engagement

8:01:06can i speak to that i heard dca o clock bush say that they're going to come back with what

8:01:13what resources they need what bylaw work is coming off the table and and and hopefully a timeline

8:01:20but yes it's going to follow standard protocols but we're going to get more information back now

8:01:25that comes back in the form of an information report here's here's here's a timeline here's the

8:01:30bylaw we're pausing on and here's what you can expect for the engagement then that's great i think

8:01:36we're good to go it doesn't need to come back for a decision but it'll come back for information

8:01:41point of order america 3 so yes can i just ask what our procedural bylaw says in terms of the

8:01:49length of a meeting i'm asking the question because it may be possible to reflect a little bit and

8:01:58come back with the motion at the end of the month that can accomplish the same thing but that

8:02:03is perhaps a bit more um just we will have had a little bit more time to formulate so i'm hearing

8:02:10us all say uh sorry i'm i'm totally against our procedural bylaw i'm asking what time we should

8:02:16stopped is number one yep okay let's just stop there um i believe that the going off memory

8:02:24that it we still would have to have a motion to go past at 11 o'clock but i can't remember

8:02:31through you mr it feels like i started this meeting last week that's correct the the

8:02:35automatic adjournment time for council meetings is 11 p.m however most council meetings start in

8:02:41the evening so this is like a committee the whole that started at 10 a.m and i'm concerned about our

8:02:47ability to be making really great decisions uh after a very full day with two meetings so i'm just

8:02:55asking is 11 o'clock still our cutoff time for the procedural bylaw and the reason i'm asking

8:03:03is is there will of council it's not our usual process but if we want additional consultation

8:03:10can we bring it back at the council meeting on february 27th and pass it then okay so i i'm gonna

8:03:22just i'm gonna really try to focus us here i actually think we are either close to passing

8:03:28something that is basically on the on the floor right now okay and then we would be done with this

8:03:33issue i would rather us do that so even if it takes us an extra 10 to 15 minutes folks i'd like us to

8:03:40actually wrap this conversation up today and not have anything come back now if i could throw

8:03:47something else on the floor just for consideration taking into account what councillor roc just said

8:03:52but also not losing what councillor Caron and others here are trying to also present there could be

8:03:58an option for us to not have a motion on this today at all why don't we wait until we see what

8:04:05the results are from the housing and health symposium that's coming up in like a month and a half

8:04:11and from the county and based on whatever that says we could then determine at that point you

8:04:20know what there needs to be more done and then hey councillor Caron i'll give it i'll shove it over to

8:04:25you to bring something back at that time and we could all agree maybe something but but at the

8:04:30same time if we maybe put ourselves out there to try to get stuff done and then the housing and

8:04:37health symposium report comes out in a month and a half and it intersects with this stuff in a

8:04:42different way it could maybe even cause problems so i'm almost feeling like perhaps the best course

8:04:48of action is to not move anything about that and that's not to leave the public with any feeling

8:04:54like we don't want to do any of that because we certainly are wanting to try but maybe this is

8:04:58just a month and a bit wait wait till that report comes from the housing and health symposium and

8:05:04then we can totally regroup as a group and figure out what to do from there with that as an idea

8:05:09i'm throwing out on the floor how about i go back to you councillor Caron i mean this is your motion

8:05:13it technically is on the floor i'll leave it with you to consider if we move forward to try to figure

8:05:18it out or or take a different route you go ahead like most of my colleagues i i my brain's not working

8:05:24and i i i want to leave the delegations who came and stuck with us all day we're not the only ones

8:05:31who are tired here our delegations have really um you know they've been with us and and i want to

8:05:38leave them with assurances through this motion that we're not going to proceed without filling

8:05:46that engagement gap um so there's the benefit to passing that tonight and sending it back to staff

8:05:53is that they hear that and they they know that it's it's there's still work to be done but

8:06:00maybe this dialogue is sending that message and someone can move to defer this motion to the end

8:06:07of the month i heard think i've heard councillor or work wanting to defer it so if she wants to make

8:06:14a deferral motion let's do that um just everyone take a breath here because there's i think we're

8:06:25all getting restless and maybe those online can't hear it in the up there but i'm feeling as the

8:06:31chair i've got a lot of chattering going on and trying to help honus and focus us on getting to

8:06:36a conclusion here so um i just want just to be clear as the chair we have a motion on the floor

8:06:43and i have to i have to procedurally stay on this motion so um either we're looking to ask

8:06:50questions on this motion or we're looking to amend this motion with whatever an amendment would be

8:06:57or questions to staff um i'll go to councillor uh i'm sorry i had councillor gibson and then i have

8:07:04councillor downer and clausen uh thank you through mr mayor um maybe not so much a question but a

8:07:13comment on the motion i like the spirit i like the intention um i think that so many times when

8:07:19we want to engage the public we even from an engineering design we we go out with preliminary

8:07:25design we go with final design we go with you know detailed design and we engage on every step of

8:07:30the way so i don't i don't have an issue with engaging on the the idea of sheltering in public

8:07:37space i i think that that's a good conversation to have with the community we can clearly tell

8:07:41there's opinions after today's meeting so some level of engagement moving forward to keep it

8:07:47moving forward in anticipation of whatever the kingston ruling comes down as i don't think

8:07:53that's bad information i don't think it's done vain i think the community on both sides wants to see

8:07:57action um and i think that i'm i'm here to vote for action so um i i don't think councillor crown

8:08:04your motion goes far enough i think it needs to go one step further to actually engaging um but

8:08:10engaging on like you said sheltering in a public space let's let's let's let's engage the community

8:08:17more so than just a one-day meeting like this so i think that that's important information to have

8:08:23even in advance of um external activities going on this in this in this realm okay thank you downer

8:08:33than clausen okay yeah for me i just think the motion just needs to say that's that staff

8:08:39in do public consultation on the subject of the use of public space for shelter like this is

8:08:46including the beginning part that during the deferral period awaiting further legal proceedings

8:08:51that staff uh do public consultation on the subject of the use of public space for shelter

8:08:57following the standard engagement principles and practices so we don't need a plan because

8:09:02you're already saying that and with specific intention and engagement with people with

8:09:07lived experience and encampments and the downtown community i think needs to be added in there so i

8:09:12would um i would suggest that amendment that you know you also i mean you you're gonna specific

8:09:22intention with people with lived experience and encampments but we also need to include the

8:09:26downtown community because they're also feeling somewhat threatened right now so through the

8:09:33mayor to council downer and hopefully helping and apologies because we don't have the wording of the

8:09:36motion so i don't know maybe if dylan can quickly send it to us um so that we can see what uh

8:09:43councillor Caron is proposing um i think simplistically we hear you and we're going to do engagement

8:09:52and that direction is helpful for us to know that we're going to factor in the outcomes of the health

8:09:57and housing symposium and if we feel that we need to delay the timing of other engagement on a bylaw

8:10:04we will report back to you via an info report regardless and i think we will do engagement

8:10:11we'll use what comes out of the health and housing symposium we will look at what a process for public

8:10:16engagement will look like up and until we're hearing back from kinkston then we'll look to see if we

8:10:21need to do anything further uh before we come back to you with a bylaw we can commit that

8:10:27with our discretion through info reports we will report back to you if we feel that there is something

8:10:32important that you need to know so the wording of the motion uh sends us off to do engagement

8:10:39and that's great and again um the the nuance of the wording um we can look at um but i think we

8:10:47understand what you're looking for and i think we're comfortable that we can go away and do that

8:10:51so i don't think i think we can land on wording that uh hopefully you can uh so uh so i think to

8:11:02councillor downer's point and just looking at this um i'm just looking at councillor caron's updated

8:11:08wording now again apologies for the moment that we just want to read this but i think

8:11:26that councillor caron's revised motion would work for staff but obviously defer to members of council

8:11:34all right we're going to try a third time's a charm we're going to try to uh remove this and

8:11:43then councillor caron and if the clerks could please put up the new one on the screen that was

8:11:48just sent um through which we try so here we go councillor caron you're good with removing the

8:11:53one that was before i am i'm assuming my seconder is also in agreement and thank you for your

8:12:00and that was busatil i believe it was she is in agreement as well and is anyone against that

8:12:07nobody we have a free table now which councillor caron is now going to table what's

8:12:13going to come up on the screen busatil you're still okay your second that new one okay perfect

8:12:21we'll just wait for it and i don't need to speak to it other than to say thank you to staff

8:12:26councillor downer and councillor or work for kind of yeah we got there bringing us uh bringing it home

8:12:32okay so this is officially tabled and now any questions on this i'm going to go clausen then

8:12:41busatil uh thank you through you mayor Guthrie to staff i just had a quick clarification question

8:12:50with regard to the next phase of the housing and homeless symposium in april just i think it's

8:12:55important because not everybody who's listening or perhaps will listen in the future will know about

8:12:59that so my understanding is that there is a public consultation component of it but maybe you could

8:13:03just elaborate on what that next piece is uh through the mayor to councillor Klassen i'm not on

8:13:10the planning committee so i could get you more details but what my understanding from what miss

8:13:14artuso shared at the end of day two was that they were moving the date from march into april to give

8:13:20them more time to um compile the information meet with the key stakeholders who signed up uh to

8:13:27participate in some of the sort of next steps and that uh i believe she shared a date of april the

8:13:33ninth and that it was going to be open to the public uh not limited to a closed number of people

8:13:41so that is the extent of the information i have but we can certainly ask miss artuso to get an

8:13:47update out to you thank you thanks for that um and can i make a comment um yeah i'm going to support

8:13:57this because even if we don't create the public uh space use bylaw i think we can still integrate

8:14:02this into some of our standard operating procedures i think there's still going to be good learnings for

8:14:06us um regardless of the outcome perhaps at the symposium i don't know you know and maybe what

8:14:12we learn in the future will suggest to us that the bylaw is not the best way to go we don't know

8:14:18what we're going to learn in the next little while so i still think there's there's value here so thanks

8:14:25busito yes thank you i have a question for staff um it's does the county have a role in this um

8:14:32we're putting the onus on our staff and yet by extension through the county social services

8:14:38they engage the agencies who then have the conversations at the front line so i'm just

8:14:44if you can help me understand get my head around that um or maybe it's a little bit later in you

8:14:49know in april with the county a conversation but it seems like putting putting this at our staff's

8:14:56you know table responsibility seems to me a little bit unfair uh so through the mayor to

8:15:02council busitil i think what is if i was imagining how the county would answer um that what is uh

8:15:09very much their responsibility is the provision of shelter services as our uh cmsm consolidated

8:15:15municipal services manager that is their responsibility and so there's a very important

8:15:20role for the county in the provision of that service when addressing anything related to

8:15:25encampments because in an idealized state we don't need to have any encampments because everybody is

8:15:29in permanent shelter so that's the key role for the county and i think as you heard ceo stewart say

8:15:36a number of hours ago there's that we know that more needs to be done and that's part of recommendation

8:15:42number two i think in terms of an actual public space use bylaw the county would say that that's

8:15:47the prerogative of the city to decide what we are and are not permitting on our lands and so

8:15:52therefore the engagement would be ours to do however i think we will certainly look to work

8:15:58with the county because to your point i don't know who's on the by name list that's not information

8:16:03i'm privy to that is the county's information it's it's confidential um and so we would want to um

8:16:11engage with the county and with their contracted service providers um to make sure that we are

8:16:17engaging appropriately with people with lived and living experience thank you and if i'm allowed

8:16:23a comment i'm just looking to the mayor thank you very much um so it's really important to me that

8:16:29we have specific intentional engagement with people who have lived experience in the in the

8:16:35encampments and i kind of object to the end the downtown community but i'm not going to fight it

8:16:40because i'm tired uh but uh you know after the mayor has had uh the mayor and councillor um downer

8:16:47have had their meeting at the end of the month i believe with the Canadian Human Rights Commission

8:16:51they're going to see very clearly the calls to the municipalities for meaningful engagement with

8:16:57the stakeholders who who live these experiences and from my experience with engagement the downtown

8:17:04community for me is part of the broader community this means specific intentional plain language we

8:17:11saw it in our audience today meeting people where they are accessible addressing systemic barriers

8:17:17you want people's voices and lived experiences to be uh welcome and part of this process not just part

8:17:25of the the regular engagement so you know for me the downtown community will be part of the regular

8:17:31process but for me what i'm looking for is that intentional specific outreach engagement um and

8:17:38and having those mutual learning and those conversations with individuals great thank you

8:17:45oh if i can simply respond to say that um and i probably should have raised this earlier because

8:17:51i don't want to leave anyone with the impression that that isn't something that is our standard

8:17:55if you think back to the work that we did on with collective results in the fall there was a very

8:18:00intentional connection with people with lived and living experience and the number of our

8:18:04community partners um facilitated that so while it wasn't directly related to the public space

8:18:09use bylaw um we did a very robust consultation process uh that was uh facilitated by collective

8:18:16results in the fall of 2023 and a key part of that work was engaging with those with lived and

8:18:22living experience and so i think we've got some good learnings out of that that will help to inform

8:18:26this work moving forward okay and just before i call the vote just so everyone knows it's not just

8:18:33chair downer and myself meeting with those people uh calling our deputy ceo and uh our

8:18:40intergovernmental staff uh maybe even legal i don't know like we're going to have the right people

8:18:46meeting with those people that reached out to us okay so it's not just the politics side that would

8:18:51be useless on that part so um we need the staff side on that one too okay um okay uh we got there

8:18:59i know councillor roerke i know it was an extra 20 minutes and rightly you you raised it but it's

8:19:03good to settle on something i think tonight just to wrap it all up so okay uh i'm going to call

8:19:08the vote on this then is anyone against this engagement piece okay nobody that's also uh

8:19:15unanimous okay um i i'm sorry i just got one quick question this is out of the blue to you

8:19:22Colleen uh answer very easily it's whatever whatever the answer is is council gave

8:19:31a hundred thousand dollars in the budget towards these encampment issues

8:19:36and we were asking for a report to come back in june may i just ask you based on your working

8:19:44so far of starting that stuff up really getting it together is a hundred thousand dollars going to

8:19:51cut it do you think we need anything more in regards to that right now is that a conversation we

8:19:59should better have in june because the hundred thousand dollars is okay i just have no idea how

8:20:05it's going for all i know you've spent eighty five thousand dollars to date and we just don't know

8:20:09so i can you just give us a quick update on whether you think that hundred thousand dollars is enough

8:20:14to at least give us the still the report in june or if you think we need more money right now to

8:20:19help people in camons um so to the mayor uh you will have the report in june the money will be

8:20:25fully spent and uh i think we're very excited about the partnership that we have uh with stepping

8:20:30stone uh in terms of how we are leading those checks and how we're making sure that that money

8:20:36gets spent uh both in ways to make sure that we have people connecting in to our encampments um

8:20:42and a number of exciting partnerships with the community health center and our community paramedics

8:20:48and uh i'm going to blank on some of the other community partners because it's late um and making

8:20:53sure that those health and safety uh necessities supplies hygiene products etc are getting into

8:20:59the hands of individuals that most need it so i think that the hundred thousand dollars is

8:21:04i mean it's hard to answer because there's probably no amount of i mean money is always needed um

8:21:10what i think will be key is when we report back in june uh consideration of what next because that

8:21:16that the money will be fully spent by june and we'll need to report back to you and particularly

8:21:21as we head into winter 2024 um consideration will need to be given as to whether to uh extend that

8:21:28into the following winter okay i i appreciate i'm sorry for putting on the spot but i i think that's

8:21:33that was good to know that okay i have no other motions on the table at all so we're looking to

8:21:40wrap things up here is there uh council council prusatil just yes i was uh wondering if i and i

8:21:49my colleagues i was wondering if i could just have some closing comments i started with some

8:21:53opening comments about us caring for you know everyone was unified around caring for the homeless

8:22:01and to have any kind of narrative or anything like that throughout the entire day of us not

8:22:08i actually felt i actually did feel like there is still unity in the room and hopefully with the

8:22:13community around that issue and so i just want to i just want to say thank you to everyone involved

8:22:19long day on that on this issue and rightly so um i excuse me i just also wanted to say you know um

8:22:27it is a moment here for me just to highlight because i took some notes throughout the day

8:22:33is often very lost on what we have done so please bear with me for about 45 seconds

8:22:42um we did limit short-term rentals in this community that that cannot be out there that

8:22:48we didn't because we did um we have advocated to not allow appeals on supportive housing as an example

8:22:58someone suggested i think today that we should do that we we don't have the ability to do that locally

8:23:04but we have asked and asked and asked and asked at the province to not allow appeals on those types

8:23:08of things we did give an extra three or two four million dollars in the budget towards these very

8:23:17issues of housing through to the county and in perpetuity that is going to be sitting at around

8:23:22four point six million dollars four years ago this city had zero supportive housing units that were

8:23:29under under our watch as of this year 108 i believe supportive housing units will be fully open okay

8:23:40um uh we had the motion to create the encampment team to go and help people with that just just

8:23:48addressed in october we had a motion of council to put a hundred thousand dollars towards encampment

8:23:55issues uh i i just want to make sure that it's also noted that there has been private sector