Staff to bring back a report, reviewing the Public Space Bylaw, By-law Number (2024) – 20990, in Q2 of 2027…

2:02:44Thank you, and through you, Mr. Mayor, to Councillor Downer,

2:02:46we'll have something up on screen here,

2:02:47just a slight edit suggestion from what was sent in,

2:02:51referencing the bylaw number.

2:02:52If you're not agreeable, just let us know.

2:02:53Thank you.

2:02:55Are you okay with that, referencing the bylaw number?

2:02:58Yes.

2:02:59Okay.

2:03:00Yeah, so this is the first of two sets of recommendations.

2:03:07Yeah, I'll turn the, thank you.

2:03:08I'll turn the floor over to you.

2:03:09Move by yourself seconded by Councillor Goller.

2:03:12And if you could, if you could go ahead and explain,

2:03:16and then there's going to be some other motions,

2:03:18I think Councillor Goller as well wanted to table some,

2:03:20but I'll turn the floor over to you.

2:03:21Okay, go ahead.

2:03:23So if I could have the motions just back up on the floor,

2:03:26and just sort of on the screen,

2:03:27and just leave them there for a few minutes.

2:03:42Yeah, so the intention is to have a,

2:03:46like basically review the public space bylaw,

2:03:49and leave that to the new term of Council to do that,

2:03:53along with staff, so that there's a fulsome report

2:03:56from staff on some of the issues that have been raised

2:03:59about, you know, and taking these things into account.

2:04:02But raised from all perspectives,

2:04:05from community and from community partners,

2:04:10there, you know, it'll be a public,

2:04:13there'll be the committee that hold,

2:04:15there'll be council meetings,

2:04:16so there'll be a number of opportunities

2:04:17for the public to be involved.

2:04:19And I would imagine that staff,

2:04:22and they can indicate that,

2:04:24and somebody can ask them that through this,

2:04:26they will be talking to our community partners

2:04:30about what recommendations they would be

2:04:32bringing back forward, and I see Deputy CEO

2:04:35calling Clark Bush nodding her head as well.

2:04:40So just some of the issues that have been raised around,

2:04:45that was in the original bylaw,

2:04:47and thanks for allowing that not to,

2:04:50agreeing not to have that one put down,

2:04:52it was very prescriptive.

2:04:54And a lot of us had a lot of concerns around that.

2:04:58So, and also any other recommendation,

2:05:00recommended revisions.

2:05:01Now that's not to say that during that process,

2:05:04that, you know, some people in the public may come

2:05:07and want it changed in different ways,

2:05:09even stronger or weaker or however,

2:05:12and that that council at that time will hear that

2:05:16and be open and do their due diligence on those suggestions.

2:05:22So that's all I'm gonna say about this part.

2:05:25Once the other rest of the motions go up,

2:05:27then we can talk about those.

2:05:29Is there any questions or may I call the vote on this?

2:05:34Erin, I'm sorry, Councillor Caton first,

2:05:35and then Koran please.

2:05:39Thank you.

2:05:40This is a question to staff.

2:05:42So by looking at this,

2:05:44do you interpret it as a full public engagement?

2:05:48Is this just you doing the report?

2:05:50Would there be AAC feedback?

2:05:53How would this look?

2:05:57Through the mayor to Councillor Caton,

2:05:58we certainly would do engagement on this.

2:06:00It would not be to the extent of sort of

2:06:02our most fulsome public engagement,

2:06:04because those processes can take upwards of a year.

2:06:07I think certainly we would be connecting with the AAC,

2:06:12sort of thinking off the top of my head,

2:06:14the health and housing planning table,

2:06:15because they would be able to assist us

2:06:17with accessing their experienced advisory group.

2:06:21And so we would be looking to do that level of engagement,

2:06:26and then also by bringing it back to council as a report,

2:06:29there would also be the public notice period process

2:06:32of that report and opportunities

2:06:34for people to sign up and delegate.

2:06:38Thanks.

2:06:38So through the mayor,

2:06:40there wouldn't be advanced public feedback.

2:06:42So it would be like once things were kind of written up,

2:06:45then folks would be able to come to the council meeting,

2:06:48see it on the agendas,

2:06:49and it would be more of a delegation feedback loop.

2:06:55Correct?

2:06:58Through the mayor to Councillor Caton,

2:07:00again, just sort of thinking it out loud,

2:07:02I think we would through,

2:07:04we would be looking for a number of different data points

2:07:06to bring back this report.

2:07:07We would be certainly looking to our staff

2:07:09in terms of the data of enforcement activities

2:07:13and where we have been seeing challenges.

2:07:16I think we would certainly go out

2:07:17and talk to some of those groups that I mentioned in advance,

2:07:20but then ultimately we would be bringing a report back

2:07:23to council for your consideration,

2:07:25and that that time the public then have the opportunity

2:07:28to see any recommended revisions that we're bringing forward,

2:07:32and then that's when they could engage

2:07:33through that delegation process.

2:07:37Thank you.

2:07:38And do we have an estimate on what it would cost

2:07:41to do this engagement?

2:07:47Through the mayor to Councillor Caton,

2:07:48I think at this point,

2:07:50I'm envisioning that we'd be doing that

2:07:52within existing resources,

2:07:54but obviously within the limitations.

2:07:55And we haven't had opportunity

2:07:57to talk to our community engagement team.

2:07:59So we would have to look at what their capacity

2:08:01and resourcing capabilities are on this,

2:08:03but we would be looking at doing this

2:08:05within existing resources.

2:08:09Thanks, and through the mayor.

2:08:11So if we're only doing it within existing resources,

2:08:13is there anything that's gonna get bumped to do this work?

2:08:20Maybe I'll jump in here, Mr. Mayor,

2:08:21and through you, the community engagement team

2:08:23as part of the corporate service group of departments

2:08:26has quite a long list of engagements

2:08:29that are forthcoming.

2:08:30We're down a staff member at this point.

2:08:34So that full comprehensive community engagement process

2:08:38that I think Council is familiar with,

2:08:39with the leveraging the online tools that we use, et cetera,

2:08:42including in-person community engagement opportunities

2:08:46is not gonna be available as DCL-Clack Bush alluded to.

2:08:50The engagement on this,

2:08:50Councillor Caton will be around, again,

2:08:53those community partner groups,

2:08:56existing advisory committees of Council where relevant.

2:09:00Councillor Caton, you mentioned AAC.

2:09:01I think that's a really concrete example

2:09:03where we would have that engagement.

2:09:05But the community engagement team would offer advisement,

2:09:10maybe about other community partners to connect with,

2:09:12but to be certain, it wouldn't be at this point

2:09:16advisable to exercise that comprehensive

2:09:18community engagement program that we would do.

2:09:21And part of that is because between now and Q1, 2027,

2:09:27we have an election, and our best experience

2:09:29is that it's not advisable to engage

2:09:31in those kind of processes during an election window.

2:09:35And so that's part of the contributing factors

2:09:38that would limit us in that regard,

2:09:39but you've got great community engagement expertise

2:09:42to DCL-Clack Bush's point where we can advise

2:09:45about some of those other partners to engage with.

2:09:47And through the mayor, if I can just close off,

2:09:50I just also wanna point out,

2:09:51we have had a number of other by-law reviews

2:09:53that we have bumped.

2:09:55As you know, recently, for example,

2:09:56the e-scooter and the graffiti by-law were both deferred,

2:10:00I think graffiti indefinitely

2:10:02until at least the next term of council can consider it.

2:10:05So that is the other risk that from a by-law review point

2:10:08of view and community engagement,

2:10:09that this would now move to the top of the priority list

2:10:12so that we can be back in front of you in Q1, 2027.

2:10:18Okay, thanks.

2:10:19So with that in mind, I think that this is something

2:10:22that would be best initiated in the next term

2:10:25when there's more availability to know

2:10:30what's gonna get bumped and be able to do something more

2:10:33fulsome, thank you very much.

2:10:36Thank you, Karan then Alt.

2:10:38Yes, thank you.

2:10:39And thank you for the way it's been phrased here.

2:10:45Policy guides what we do and why we do it

2:10:47and process guides how we do it.

2:10:51And I think we all know that policy and process,

2:10:55if they're not working or there's new knowledge

2:10:57or there's legal precedence,

2:10:59that that is always subject to change.

2:11:01We do regular by-law reviews through annual work plans

2:11:05and that speaks to what Ms. Clark Bush

2:11:07and Mr. O'Brien just covered.

2:11:11And given that there is an election

2:11:12and that the budget, the 2027 budget

2:11:16is one of the first things that the new council

2:11:18is going to be doing and Q1 ends in March

2:11:21and we've got significant onboarding that will happen.

2:11:24In the new year, I'd like to propose an amendment

2:11:27that this come back in Q2.

2:11:29And I would just want staff to report whether or not

2:11:32that is something you could support

2:11:35in terms of your resourcing

2:11:37and whether that review can be done

2:11:39before the weather turns too warm to not be effective

2:11:43and if there are changes that are being proposed.

2:11:46But I'll need a seconder for the Q2 amendment

2:11:48before staff can respond.

2:11:50Alt will second the amendment for Q2 instead of Q1.

2:11:55And then if staff could respond to that

2:11:56then I can just call the vote

2:11:57because that's a pretty easy yes or no.

2:12:00Through the mayor, yes, I think that would give us

2:12:03better more time to your point.

2:12:05Q1 is already very busy.

2:12:07You do also have the winter control operational review

2:12:09that you've asked to see,

2:12:11which will be coming out by information report

2:12:13but for your consideration in advance of budget

2:12:15and the operations team is working on that

2:12:17as well as a priority.

2:12:18So I think Q2 would give us that space,

2:12:21post-election to bring it back to you

2:12:23and still in advance of sort of those summer months.

2:12:28Okay.

2:12:29Can I call the vote on the amendment?

2:12:31I'm comfortable with that personally.

2:12:33I'll support that.

2:12:34I think you've raised some good points to consider why.

2:12:39But I also appreciate how Councillor Caron and you

2:12:42and your response have also indicated that,

2:12:45you know, it would be before the months

2:12:48where more often we see encampments

2:12:51and see these issues.

2:12:53So I think that's fair.

2:12:55Okay. So I'll call the vote.

2:12:56Is anyone against the amendment to go to Q2?

2:13:00Okay. That's unanimous.

2:13:01So thank you.

2:13:03You okay? Can I go to Councillor Allt?

2:13:05Yep. Okay. Councillor Allt, please.

2:13:07Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie.

2:13:08Speaking to the motion as amended.

2:13:12First of all, I want to thank Councillor Caron

2:13:14for what I think is a very important suggestion

2:13:17with the new council coming on.

2:13:19I think that's something that is as emotional as this

2:13:23or most of the community is something that is better done

2:13:25once new Councillors get their feet wet.

2:13:30Councillor Caron is quite correct

2:13:31that there is a very fine interplay

2:13:34between policy and bylaw.

2:13:35And I could not have supported the motions

2:13:38that were initially before us.

2:13:39I feel they were too prescriptive.

2:13:41And just to be quite transparent,

2:13:43I did not support the original bylaw in the first place.

2:13:47But because this was a new bylaw,

2:13:49and I feel that I have an obligation

2:13:52to support something that is new,

2:13:54at least in its manifestation,

2:13:56until we see what's right or wrong about it.

2:13:59We are embarking on finding out

2:14:02what works with this particular bylaw.

2:14:05It's hardly perfect.

2:14:06And it's not wrong to seek input.

2:14:08I mean, if it was perfect, we would adjourn our meeting

2:14:10as soon as we got sworn in for the next four years.

2:14:12But we don't.

2:14:14We have to get things right.

2:14:16And that means for the whole community,

2:14:17for people that are in encampments,

2:14:19for people that are living beside encampments,

2:14:21for businesses, for the whole of the environment as well.

2:14:26So I think that this makes a lot of sense,

2:14:28the way that it's being presented.

2:14:29And I think that we can move forward

2:14:31on behalf of the whole community with something

2:14:33that is not prescriptive,

2:14:35that doesn't have the answers in it,

2:14:37but is rather seeking input and seeking solutions.

2:14:41Thank you. Thank you.

2:14:43Is there anything further before I call the main,

2:14:45I've called the vote on the main motion as amended?

2:14:48Okay, I'll just quickly state,

2:14:50that the clerk wants to say something.

2:14:52Sorry, I apologize for the interruption,

2:14:53Mayor Guthard, just to make sure

2:14:54we have the information captured.

2:14:55I don't remember who we had seconding the motion.

2:14:58I apologize.

2:14:59Councillor Goller, seconded.

2:15:00Thank you for that correction.

2:15:01Yeah.

2:15:03So I just want to say a little bit of a ditto

2:15:05to what I said at the beginning,

2:15:07which is worth repeating.

2:15:08Thank you to my colleagues.

2:15:09Totally respectful conversations

2:15:11with every single person.

2:15:13And everyone acknowledged that there's issues.

2:15:15Like there's, so getting this on the radar

2:15:19informed by more evidence.

2:15:22And I will just say,

2:15:23we're about to look at a motion

2:15:25that looks to help with

2:15:29kind of upscaling some of the response to encampments.

2:15:33And hopefully that will pass too.

2:15:35But that is tied into this for me

2:15:38because with that information,

2:15:41that enforcement team

2:15:44and gathers between now

2:15:48and when the review comes back

2:15:49will also help inform.

2:15:52I will also say that there are so many legal challenges

2:15:55happening across the province on this issue

2:15:57that there are probably some outcomes of appeals

2:16:02and things like that that might happen

2:16:03between now and Q2 next year.

2:16:06And that, those appeals across the province

2:16:09may also help inform

2:16:11what the type of reviews might occur next year as well.

2:16:15But if you could just put the motion

2:16:17back up on the screen for me to the clerks there.

2:16:20I'll just finish by just saying,

2:16:26you know, one of the things that, you know,

2:16:27some people say, you know, oh, I don't see these problems.

2:16:32Mayor Guthrie, I don't see, why is this a problem?

2:16:35I'll just say that when you sit in this chair,

2:16:37this isn't because I'm better than anybody at all,

2:16:39but when you are the mayor,

2:16:41you get the calls from across the city.

2:16:44Okay, so it's different.

2:16:46I have the information that's coming to me

2:16:49multiple different ways because the mayor's office gets it.

2:16:54And I'm out and about all over the place.

2:16:56And so I would just like to say that currently

2:16:59we don't have any setbacks at all

2:17:02to residential property line in our current bylaw.

2:17:06And I'm just gonna say, in my opinion,

2:17:07that's a big problem.

2:17:09That's a big problem.

2:17:10I'm hearing of people jumping fences at night

2:17:13and plugging in steel in their electricity at night,

2:17:17total up all night keeping people up with their small kids

2:17:21and lots of issues to me as the review comes back.

2:17:26You know, like that, that's a big issue for me.

2:17:31I will also say that the shelters

2:17:33and public unauthorized structures are shelters,

2:17:36or if we could say encampments,

2:17:38that are near supportive housing and transitional housing.

2:17:42That's a big problem for me

2:17:44because I hear about a big problem

2:17:46from those that are sometimes running those very places.

2:17:49They have people that are in these units

2:17:52that are trying to get off of drugs or addictions

2:17:55or other issues and then 30 feet away from them,

2:17:58they can go to an encampment all day long

2:18:02and not be on the path to recovery.

2:18:07So that's a big problem.

2:18:10And I will just say also that we do have a current provision

2:18:14for distancing from shelters,

2:18:16sorry, from like playgrounds, water parks,

2:18:19splashbots, waiting pools, et cetera.

2:18:21And in my opinion, it's not enough.

2:18:2430 feet is not enough.

2:18:26And I'm hearing this from parents

2:18:28who are with their kids at playgrounds,

2:18:30at baseball diamonds,

2:18:32like there are conflicts that are happening.

2:18:36So I just wanted to give some of that feedback.

2:18:40I'm the conduit from the community

2:18:42and I'm giving the feedback publicly here

2:18:44about the reason why some of these should be reviewed.

2:18:48And I'm very thankful for council

2:18:49to kind of go in this direction

2:18:51for whatever the next council can consider doing

2:18:54when the report comes back.

2:18:56With that, I will call the vote.

2:18:59Anyone against what was on the screen there for that?

2:19:02Just, Kate.

2:19:05Okay, so that passes.

2:19:06Thank you.

2:19:07Now, if we could go to the next,

2:19:13motions.

2:19:15So basically we've dealt with,

2:19:19I think we're gonna go to number seven now.

2:19:24That will now become number two, in a way.

2:19:28And is this yours, Councillor Goller,

2:19:31that you wanted to address?

2:19:33And then I have another one from Councillor Downer too.

2:19:37Actually, worship, I think Councillor Dunner

2:19:39is submitting one in substitution to number seven,

2:19:42just like Lee just did wording.

2:19:43If you wanted to go, Kate.

2:19:44Yeah, I have the substitution if Councillor Goller

2:19:47wants to second it.

2:19:49And then there's the other motions.

2:19:52Could you pull it up then for us

2:19:54and the public to see on this?

2:19:55I'm losing track in my email of where this one was, okay.

2:19:58Okay, Councillor Downer,

2:19:59did you wanna move, I'll second it again

2:20:02by Councillor Goller then?

2:20:03Okay, go ahead, Councillor Downer.

2:20:04Oh, you put them all together.

2:20:05Okay, so this one is the staff be directed.

2:20:09It's very similar to what was in the original motion

2:20:13that Mayor Guthrie had brought forward

2:20:15that be directed on a pilot basis

2:20:17with a budget of 260,000 for a seven month period.

2:20:21From August 26th to February 27th,

2:20:242027 funded from the tax operating contingency reserve

2:20:28to create a dedicated response team

2:20:31that will work closely with community agencies

2:20:33on the growing volume of encampments in the city of Guilf.

2:20:36So we have, they've been growing more so than we've seen,

2:20:44normally seen this summer.

2:20:46And I recognize the weather is better,

2:20:47but there's obviously other factors involved

2:20:50in why this may be.

2:20:52So there's additional resources

2:20:55that I believe are needed in that.

2:20:57I think we're through the budget.

2:21:00I think staff had originally brought this forward,

2:21:02but then they got, we got taken out through the budget process.

2:21:06But I think this is gonna be really important

2:21:09in helping our staff with community partners,

2:21:13partners deal with some of the encampments

2:21:16and help folks get to the proper services

2:21:20that they may need.

2:21:21And then the other motions are basically

2:21:25that ahead of the 2027 budget to come back

2:21:29with the evaluation on the impact of that dedicated team.

2:21:32So that dedicated team that we're talking about

2:21:34in the first motion is not as temporary.

2:21:37And the evaluation of the need

2:21:39for permanent service level increase.

2:21:41And we can leave out that any recommended revisions

2:21:44of the bylaw, sorry,

2:21:47because I put that in the first one.

2:21:50We can stroke that out.

2:21:53So I could amend that to take that out if you want.

2:21:57Yeah.

2:21:59I think the best thing to do is I'll just add,

2:22:01just let me do my rigmarole.

2:22:02Would you be willing to remove the motion?

2:22:05Yeah.

2:22:06Would you be willing to remove your seconder?

2:22:08Thank you.

2:22:09Anyone on council wanna challenge on that?

2:22:12No.

2:22:12Okay. Councillor Downer is gonna move the motions

2:22:15just with that removed and Councillor Goller will second.

2:22:18Okay.

2:22:24There you go.

2:22:26Yeah.

2:22:27Since so in evaluation of what those extra resources

2:22:29have done and whether there's a need

2:22:32for permanent service levels increases.

2:22:35And then the third is that staff in the mayor

2:22:37be directed to increase advocacy efforts

2:22:40with both the provincial and federal governments

2:22:42and on alignment with the Ontario City mayors

2:22:46solve the crisis campaign.

2:22:48And I think throughout the last couple of years

2:22:50we've seen a lot of motions,

2:22:53you know, directing the mayor and staff to do advocacy,

2:22:58but it's always good to, I think, to keep that in there.

2:23:01And then that the mayor respectfully requests

2:23:03that the County of Wellington,

2:23:04the Consolidated Municipal Service Manager

2:23:07for Social Services for the City of Guelph,

2:23:10hold an emergency joint social services

2:23:12and land ambulance committee meeting

2:23:14or add an item to this September,

2:23:162026 joint social services and land ambulance committee

2:23:22to discuss the growing volume of encampments

2:23:24within the city to understand the solutions

2:23:27that I'm missing are being,

2:23:31what solutions are being actioned

2:23:33to help transition people into permanent housing solutions.

2:23:37Just with that concern of the increase in encampments.

2:23:40Yeah.

2:23:42Any questions on any of that at all?

2:23:44I see Councillor Pusatil then also, okay.

2:23:51Thank you. And through the mayor, I have two questions.

2:23:53The first one is on the part first motion

2:23:57around the staffing.

2:24:00It says for a seven month period from August, 2026

2:24:04to February, 2027.

2:24:05And it's a question through the mayor to staff

2:24:08about the ability to hire on board

2:24:11and have staff in place by August.

2:24:14And when does the clock for seven months start?

2:24:19Through the mayor to Councillor Pusatil,

2:24:20so that would be an August first start.

2:24:22And certainly if this motion were to pass tonight,

2:24:24we'll begin probably tomorrow.

2:24:26And I think we'll look to be resourcing likely

2:24:29from within existing staff

2:24:30and then backfilling those vacancies

2:24:32would be my guess of what we would be doing.

2:24:34And so again, because it's seven months

2:24:36until final budget approval,

2:24:39we'll have to navigate how to handle that.

2:24:43But I do think we can commit to getting a dedicated

2:24:47and team together, a response team together

2:24:51by the beginning of August,

2:24:52even if we're using existing staff and shuffling people

2:24:54until we can get people in in a more permanent way.

2:24:57Because I do think from a timing point of view,

2:24:58it's really important.

2:25:00Also because a part of the part of the intent behind this

2:25:05is not simply related to enforcement,

2:25:07although that's obviously part of it,

2:25:08but also to make sure that we have a team

2:25:10who are connecting with the Wellington County Housing Team

2:25:13with our social services providers,

2:25:15with the social workers from Stepping Stone

2:25:16who go out and visit encampments.

2:25:18And so it is a multi-pronged approach.

2:25:20And so for that reason as well,

2:25:23we'll prioritize getting this team up and going

2:25:25as soon as possible in August.

2:25:28Thank you.

2:25:29And through the mayor, the second question I have is,

2:25:32I kind of bristled a bit, I'll be very honest,

2:25:35with the use of the word of encampments in this.

2:25:38This is not an encampment by-law,

2:25:39it's a public spaces by-law.

2:25:41And I know in my area, I have called by-law about

2:25:45families cutting down trees and making structures

2:25:47and having fire pits in the woods.

2:25:50And so can you speak to that?

2:25:52Is this just about encampments

2:25:54or is this also about those unsanctioned structures

2:25:59that are created in public spaces?

2:26:02And I guess I would feel much more comfortable

2:26:04if it referred to consistently the language

2:26:08rather than suggesting encampments,

2:26:11public space by-law, public space by-law.

2:26:13If you can comment on that please.

2:26:16Through the mayor to Councillor Busuttil,

2:26:17so certainly I don't want to comment on the wording

2:26:22because I think this was being crafted quickly

2:26:27to get this in front of you tonight for consideration.

2:26:30I don't disagree with you that we generally try

2:26:32to use public space use as the language

2:26:35because sometimes things that may be an infraction

2:26:38within the public space use by-law

2:26:39aren't specifically an encampment

2:26:41but may relate to other behaviors or activities

2:26:43or safety concerns.

2:26:44And so, well, I think we understand the intent

2:26:50and I don't think we,

2:26:52I think we can work with it the way that it is worded

2:26:55because we understand the intent.

2:26:58Certainly leave that to Council's discretion

2:26:59if you would feel more comfortable revising the language.

2:27:02I think the word encampment still shows up

2:27:04in what is now motion number two

2:27:07and in what is motion number five.

2:27:14Thank you.

2:27:15Having had to call fire twice for the fire

2:27:18not created by encampments but by public misuse,

2:27:22I would ask the mover of my council colleagues

2:27:25to please consider public space use

2:27:28because there are behaviors that are not encampment.

2:27:32I'll leave it at that.

2:27:32Thank you.

2:27:34Okay, thank you.

2:27:36Just be, I have Councillor Allt

2:27:38but did you want to, yeah.

2:27:42Okay, I'll give the floor to Councillor Downer

2:27:44then to you, Councillor Allt.

2:27:45Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor.

2:27:46Just for clarity, the only place that encampment

2:27:51in this section is used in the first one

2:27:55and it just refers to the growing volume

2:27:59of encampments in the city of Guelph.

2:28:02So it's not referring to behavior,

2:28:05it's not referring to the public use by law at all.

2:28:10It's referring to the encampments, it's referring to the,

2:28:15so I, where would you, I'm just sort of wanting to know

2:28:18where you'd want to see the change.

2:28:23Thank you.

2:28:24I would feel much more comfortable

2:28:25if it was structures and encampments.

2:28:28So the people that are building forts

2:28:30and as I'm saying, causing fires in the woodlots,

2:28:36it needs to recognize them that it's not encampments only.

2:28:39It is these recreation users that are in a natural heritage

2:28:43area that are causing fires.

2:28:47I'd like to move a motion to amend that the wording be,

2:28:51sorry, I don't have it.

2:28:54There it is, yes, that it be structures and encampments,

2:28:58the growing number of structures and encampments.

2:29:04Yep, Councillor Katelyn is willing to second that,

2:29:06I believe, is that what your hand is up?

2:29:07Okay, perfect.

2:29:10May I call the vote on that?

2:29:13Okay, I'm not good to vote for it.

2:29:15I think it's skirting the issue personally,

2:29:18that's my opinion.

2:29:19There's 329 complaints that have come in so far to date

2:29:23on encampments.

2:29:25There are not a plethora of issues,

2:29:27I think that Councillor Bustatil has brought up,

2:29:30but the will of council,

2:29:31if they want to change it to add those words, that's fine,

2:29:33but I think we're starting to try to water down

2:29:37what the actual issue is that we are here to talk about.

2:29:40And I don't want to, I don't want to skirt around that issue.

2:29:44So I'm not going to vote for it,

2:29:45but I'll leave it at that, Councillor Downer.

2:29:48Could I just ask a question to staff through you, Mr. Mayor?

2:29:52Adding structures, like the fire, the recreational stuff,

2:29:56it sort of, this is around social services and housing.

2:29:59This whole motion is around housing for homeless people.

2:30:05And I don't want to confuse the issue with stuff

2:30:10that by-laws deals with in encroachment on city's property

2:30:14and with other kind of recreational structures.

2:30:17Is that, am I thinking, I'm just sort of asking,

2:30:22Deputy Sue Clark-Bush wrote that.

2:30:25So through the mayor to Councillor Downer,

2:30:28I think we still understand the intent.

2:30:31I do have a bit of a concern

2:30:34because there could be structures, for example,

2:30:37we might have a perfectly legally compliant structure

2:30:39on private property somewhere like a new garage or something,

2:30:42like structures is a very specific word

2:30:44related to building permits.

2:30:46And so I think if the intent is encampments

2:30:50and the affiliated behaviors,

2:30:53I think we understand that intent

2:30:56and certainly the pilot program that's being proposed

2:31:01would be to address exactly those housing challenges

2:31:04related to individuals living in encampments.

2:31:10Okay, I'll call the votes,

2:31:11been moved and seconded to change it.

2:31:13And it is what it is, but we've heard my opinion,

2:31:17whatever that matters, but we've heard our staff answer

2:31:19as well.

2:31:20So is anyone against the amendment please raise your hand?

2:31:26So Gibson and Billings,

2:31:30and Chu and Richardson and Gowler and Guthrie and Downer.

2:31:37I didn't count when I did that.

2:31:40Seven, six.

2:31:44So it is seven, six, so it fails,

2:31:46but another show of hands is being asked by the clerk.

2:31:49I'll go backwards this time.

2:31:51So Downer and Guthrie and Gowler and Richardson

2:31:59and Chu and Billings and Gibson.

2:32:03Okay, so it just stays as it is, okay?

2:32:06Okay, Councillor Allt, you?

2:32:08Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

2:32:09It's actually questions to you and to Councillor Downer.

2:32:14As I am struggling, this is,

2:32:17I thought that what we just sent staff away with

2:32:19actually probably encompasses a lot of this

2:32:21with the exception of number one and number four,

2:32:25but when it comes to a dedicated team,

2:32:28I was wondering if we could clearly identify

2:32:31what communities those, what agencies,

2:32:35those community agencies are,

2:32:37and what purpose are we going about?

2:32:40And so I think it's, I'm not certain it's to staff,

2:32:42but I think it's to the mover.

2:32:44What are the dedicated agencies?

2:32:48This is, I'm gonna refer it to the staff

2:32:51to talk about because they came up with their solution

2:32:54and actually it was in the last budget originally.

2:32:56So yeah.

2:32:58Through the Mayor to Councillor Allt,

2:33:00if that's okay to answer.

2:33:01So dedicated community agencies that we typically work with,

2:33:04we obviously, the County of Wellington

2:33:06as our social services administrator

2:33:09and who oversee the housing office,

2:33:11they in turn contract to Stepping Stone

2:33:13who provide the first immediate social worker response

2:33:16out into encampments, but we do work with a number

2:33:19of other community agencies

2:33:21through the health and housing planning table,

2:33:23including our welcoming streets team

2:33:25through the Guelph Community Health Center,

2:33:27the Sanguine Health team.

2:33:29There are other agencies who we work with,

2:33:32who we would continue to liaise with.

2:33:36There are a number of agencies

2:33:37who do work out into encampments,

2:33:40and so we would wanna make sure

2:33:41that we remain connected with them

2:33:43because that's the best way to provide supports.

2:33:46And thank you to follow up on that.

2:33:48So to provide the supports,

2:33:50I wanna be clear that what we're not doing with this

2:33:54is that this is not a motion that is punitive

2:33:57in its character, but is rather addressing a crisis

2:34:01that we currently have in housing

2:34:03and social services and mental health.

2:34:06And we are trying to address it

2:34:08from many different perspectives.

2:34:09Is that staff's understanding?

2:34:12Through the Mayor to Councillor Allt, I would say yes,

2:34:15but it is also, there will be some of this

2:34:18that is the energy will be directed into ensuring

2:34:22that encampments are compliant with the by-law,

2:34:24are safe, are meeting the location restrictions,

2:34:29and when they aren't,

2:34:30then connecting people with those agencies.

2:34:33And even for people who are compliant with the by-law,

2:34:36we wanna make sure we're still connecting them

2:34:37with those agencies so they're getting the supports,

2:34:39the healthcare, et cetera, that they might need.

2:34:42And then also part of this is also cleanup.

2:34:45Some of the sites we do see waste left behind,

2:34:49things from a safety point of view.

2:34:51And so part of this is resources to make sure

2:34:54that we are able to get in and clean up

2:34:56if there has been a location that's been,

2:34:58either has moved or has been abandoned.

2:35:00And we wanna make sure that we're cleaning up

2:35:02those locations safely.

2:35:03So just to follow up, so the comparable by-law,

2:35:10or the comparable approach the city takes

2:35:13is what we deal with people that actually live in homes,

2:35:17which is property standards.

2:35:18We're essentially applying the same thing to a site,

2:35:21is that correct?

2:35:24Through the mayor, I think like with any by-law,

2:35:28property standards is one, but this is another one

2:35:31where we have a by-law in place.

2:35:33And so we need to make sure that we have the resources

2:35:36to work with individuals to help make sure

2:35:38that they are compliant with the by-law,

2:35:40and in this case, to make sure that they have the supports

2:35:42that they need because we are working in this case

2:35:45with a population that tends to be more vulnerable

2:35:49and has higher acuity needs.

2:35:50And we wanna make sure that we're connecting them

2:35:52with the necessary community resources.

2:35:54And I appreciate that because I think we do need to recognize

2:35:57that we are passing a by-law for a very vulnerable population.

2:36:03A question to the mayor.

2:36:05Just to just to just for clarity, Councillor,

2:36:06we're not passing a by-law.

2:36:08Sorry.

2:36:09We're creating a specialized unit

2:36:11to help with these situations.

2:36:12Quite correct, apologies.

2:36:15Point number three, this is I believe for the mayor

2:36:18through the big city mayors.

2:36:20Can you please highlight what the advocacy efforts are

2:36:25that are looking for solutions?

2:36:27I think that's important for the public to hear.

2:36:28Yeah, okay, thank you.

2:36:29Now I am going by memory.

2:36:31That's okay.

2:36:32But if everyone wants to go.

2:36:33You're not as old as me.

2:36:33Yeah, if everyone wants to go to solvethecrisis.ca,

2:36:37you will then see what I'm trying to remember by memory.

2:36:41But one of the key things is for the province

2:36:45to actually create a dedicated ministry

2:36:48for like mental health, addictions and homelessness.

2:36:53We feel that a dedicated minister

2:36:56and the funding for that ministry

2:36:59would be better able to respond to the issues

2:37:03that cities are experiencing across the province

2:37:06and to have the authority of like funding

2:37:08and not having to go to the treasury all the time.

2:37:11So that things can go much, much faster.

2:37:14That is the big ask because currently we find

2:37:18that at the province it's all sort of fragmented.

2:37:22And one like housing will look at the housing ministry,

2:37:28we'll look at the health ministry as an example.

2:37:33And so we need someone at the ministry

2:37:36that is coordinated.

2:37:38Also, I'm sure that it asks for better dedicated funding,

2:37:43immediate funding for like supportive housing,

2:37:45transitional housing, affordable housing.

2:37:47I'm sure that's in there.

2:37:50I'm sorry, there's some more,

2:37:51but I can't quite remember off the top of my head.

2:37:54But if you go to solvethecrisis.ca,

2:37:56it's all laid out there.

2:37:57Thank you.

2:37:58And can I just say one more thing?

2:37:59The AMO conference,

2:38:02Association of Mental Health and Spalves of Ontario Conference

2:38:04is happening in the middle of August.

2:38:07And we, the Ontario City Mayors,

2:38:11is getting ready for a full court press on this issue again.

2:38:18Thank you.

2:38:18Another question, an awkward one to you, Mr. Mayor.

2:38:21Point number four that the mayor respectfully requests

2:38:24the County of Wellington

2:38:26and the consolidated municipal service

2:38:28is not going to be able to hold an emergency joint

2:38:30social services and land ambulance meeting.

2:38:35What about if they say no?

2:38:37So I, if they can't, and look,

2:38:40do not read it, have no one read into the, if they can't,

2:38:45is because they don't care.

2:38:46Okay, I just, it's because of probably

2:38:49how quick the scheduling is.

2:38:50And a lot of people are away.

2:38:52They usually have the month of both July and August off.

2:38:57So I don't want it to come across

2:38:59if it can't happen on an emergency basis

2:39:01that in any way is defining any,

2:39:05defining them in any ill will.

2:39:07But that is why I also added the language that says,

2:39:10or on the agenda for September.

2:39:12Because I'll just tell you why,

2:39:16and this is just coming from me.

2:39:19We collectively have spent like millions of dollars,

2:39:23both all levels of government,

2:39:25for increased shelter overnight,

2:39:30and increased beds and spaces,

2:39:34and transitional housing, like by multiples, multiples,

2:39:39lots, which is to be celebrated.

2:39:42Then why do we have 56 encampments?

2:39:48Like if, and I can tell you right now,

2:39:51because I've been doing a lot of research on this,

2:39:55there's room.

2:39:57Okay, there's room.

2:40:00Every night, there's room.

2:40:03But people aren't choosing to go to the shelters.

2:40:06And that gets back to Councillor Caton's motion

2:40:08from a little while ago, about the why.

2:40:13So I'm at a loss here,

2:40:16why the collective community,

2:40:19and all levels of government has spent millions of dollars

2:40:23on creating more beds, and we have 56 encampments.

2:40:28I want to know what the heck's going on.

2:40:31I think that's a legitimate question.

2:40:33Thank you.

2:40:34And perhaps that frames my last question

2:40:37is actually a comment, which was for Councillor Downer.

2:40:42The statement, understand what solutions are being actioned

2:40:45to help transition people.

2:40:47It strikes me that the solution that's not being actioned

2:40:50is that the federal and the provincial governments

2:40:53are not building the housing that is necessary,

2:40:55and that's our problem.

2:40:56I recognize, I think that you've legitimately stated

2:40:59there are beds available,

2:41:01but that's not what people either want or need.

2:41:04We're talking about a significant housing deficit for people.

2:41:08And what worries me right now is that I'm seeing it

2:41:12affecting senior citizens.

2:41:14I'm actually working with a retired cleric right now,

2:41:17trying to find that individual housing

2:41:19because she just can't afford it.

2:41:22So consequently, I think we know what the problem is.

2:41:25The challenge is, how do we get people

2:41:27into something that doesn't exist?

2:41:31I'll leave that as a comment.

2:41:32I don't think it can be a question.

2:41:34Well said.

2:41:35Because I think it's true.

2:41:37Okay, I think I can call the vote then.

2:41:39No, Councillor Katelyn, go ahead.

2:41:43Thank you.

2:41:43Through you, Mr. Mayor.

2:41:45Question of staff.

2:41:46So when we originally passed the public space use bylaw,

2:41:51I had made an extra motion for additional funds

2:41:55for things like garbage, receptacles,

2:41:59sharps containers and things like that to be

2:42:04divided or put throughout the areas of the most need

2:42:10within various encampments based on direction

2:42:14from the health and housing table.

2:42:17Is that something that continued

2:42:18or was that a one time deal?

2:42:25So through the Mayor and Councillor Katelyn,

2:42:27so it continues in that we look for opportunities

2:42:32to provide washrooms in a number of public places.

2:42:36We still continue to work with public health

2:42:38regarding sharps containers.

2:42:40And so I think the work evolved into something

2:42:43that we try to find ways to accommodate

2:42:46within our existing infrastructure in our parks.

2:42:49It can be very challenging because there isn't one

2:42:53specific location encampments often move

2:42:55and they're varied and spread across the city.

2:42:59But we do continue to work with our, again,

2:43:02with our social services partners to identify

2:43:06where are those basic needs and how can they best be met?

2:43:09And again, that is work that the County of Wellington

2:43:12does lead specifically through, for example,

2:43:15their winter response plan where they look to also

2:43:18make sure that those basic needs are being met.

2:43:23So is that adequately funded or,

2:43:26because I'm just worried,

2:43:27like if we've got 300 somewhat complaints

2:43:29and some of them are related to the garbage

2:43:31and stuff like that or needles

2:43:33and we're not providing bins or needles,

2:43:37then that could be a solution.

2:43:40So is there a need for more funding for that?

2:43:44Should we be upping the bucket that we're including

2:43:48in this ask to have more money for those?

2:43:55Through the mayor to Councillor Katelyn,

2:43:56I would suggest that would be something we would do

2:43:58after the first seven months when we bring this back

2:44:01for next term of Council's consideration

2:44:02as part of budget in February.

2:44:04Certainly, I think our experience is that provision

2:44:07of, for example, sharps containers

2:44:09doesn't actually avoid sharps being disposed of

2:44:12in other locations.

2:44:13And so I think what has been part of this number

2:44:16that's before you is an adequate number

2:44:19to get this kickstarted and then we will evaluate the need

2:44:23and that would be part of the report back

2:44:26that would come at budget time before this program

2:44:32was made potentially permanent through that budget process.

2:44:37Great, thank you, I appreciate that.

2:44:41Okay, I think I can call a vote on all of these, everybody.

2:44:44Yes, okay, here we go.

2:44:46Is anyone against these series of motions as tabled?

2:44:51That's nobody, that's unanimous.

2:44:53Thank you very much.

2:44:55I don't see anything further on this.

2:44:57I'm good, I think we're done this topic.

2:45:00I said at the very, very beginning

2:45:03that it deserved the conversation.

2:45:05It deserved to be brought forward.

2:45:07And I really want to thank everyone

2:45:08for having a good conversation about it

2:45:10and it is moving forward and it sends a signal

2:45:13to the community that we're looking into these issues

2:45:16and we'll see what happens when it comes back, okay?

2:45:17So thank you.

2:45:19With that, Councillor Houser is going to bring forward

2:45:22our bylaws for us.

2:45:24Thank you, that bylaws 2026, 21248,