Issue of temporary housing encampments be referred to the County of Wellington housing symposium.

34:57our Deputy CAO of public services.

35:01And they will help us with some opening remarks

35:04and walk us through probably how we got here,

35:06I would imagine.

35:07And then after that, we have a handful of delegations.

35:11I see some in the audience here, which is great.

35:14Thank you.

35:15And we'll go from there over to the both of you.

35:18Thank you.

35:19Great, thank you.

35:20And good afternoon, Mayor, Council

35:21and Guelph community members.

35:23When it comes to housing and Guelph,

35:25we all want enough housing available

35:27and people to live in homes that they can afford.

35:29And yet we're here today because of the growing gap

35:31between the supply of and demand for housing,

35:34which is making housing unaffordable for our residents.

35:38As a city, we are primarily responsible

35:40for facilitating housing supply,

35:42mainly in the private market by regulating land use

35:45and building standards through policies and incentives

35:48to make development possible.

35:51As you know, the city does not build housing

35:53and as noted in our housing pledge,

35:55we can't meet the province's mandated housing target alone.

36:00We continue to experience challenges

36:02with the affordability of housing,

36:05the market, the high interest rates

36:08and shortage of skilled labor

36:09alongside the existing government funding programs

36:12and various policy levers does not deliver enough housing

36:16that is at a level of affordability

36:18to meet community needs.

36:20The province has increased our housing targets,

36:22yet has not fulfilled the housing pledge requests

36:25that were required for the city to fulfill

36:27the pledge target of 18,000 units by 2031.

36:33While the responsibility for delivery of homelessness

36:35and housing stability service lies

36:37with the County of Wellington

36:39as our consolidated municipal services manager,

36:42there's increasing pressure on the city

36:44to consider how to respond to critical issues

36:47related to homelessness in our community.

36:49For these reasons, it's important to continue

36:52the dialogue on housing in Guelph.

36:55Today, our purpose is to provide updates on actions

36:58underway that were raised at the housing

36:59in Guelph workshop in July and in response

37:02to even more recent identified needs and opportunities.

37:07To present staff recommendations for council direction

37:10on how we continue moving forward

37:13and to enable timely decision-making based

37:16on the culmination of professional expertise

37:18from staff, third party research,

37:21information shared from other organizations

37:23and partners and community voices through delegations.

37:30So here's a chronology of what brings us before you

37:33for decision-making that has been informed by these events.

37:38On July the 11th, the Housing in Guelph

37:41Council Education Workshop,

37:43where we provided a thorough overview

37:45of city-led activities and current efforts

37:48to increase housing supply,

37:50provided answers to council's questions

37:52and facilitated a brainstorming session

37:54for future focused goals.

37:57In addition to the package that you had that was published,

38:01we also had the July 19th special council meeting

38:05on the 2023 development charge background study

38:08update, which included an analysis of impacts

38:11of the recent amendments to the Development Charges Act,

38:14notably the More Homes Build Faster Act 2022,

38:18otherwise known as Bill 23.

38:20This amendment further limits the amount of DC's Guelph

38:23can collect at the same time the city is trying

38:26to create more housing in alignment with the housing pledge

38:28and the city's strategic plan.

38:31The special council meeting on September the 12th,

38:34where collective results presented outcomes

38:36of the council directed work that included analysis

38:39of the gaps and opportunities related to homelessness,

38:42mental health and substance abuse in Guelph,

38:45funding of current state activities

38:47and other funding opportunities available,

38:50overlaps and gaps in the system and recommendations

38:53to address them in the future.

38:55The county, Guelph's provincially mandated

38:57social services provider also presented the preliminary budget

39:01for their draft housing and homelessness plan.

39:04And our planning staff spoke to the city's

39:07housing affordability strategy.

39:10Further, at last week's council education workshop,

39:13we were provided a deeper understanding

39:15on how the city budget is developed,

39:17including an overview of policies and financing strategies,

39:21capital budget concepts such as asset management,

39:24planning and infrastructure renewal,

39:25as well as highlights of the 2024 to 2027 key budget topics,

39:30including housing.

39:36So before you, we have the housing continuum.

39:38We always like to continue to come back to this graphic

39:41to help remind everyone about how housing does exist

39:45across this full continuum and in this full range of types.

39:49So on the left-hand side of our housing continuum

39:52are individuals and families in crisis.

39:54These are individuals or families

39:55who are in emergency shelters or maybe living rough.

39:58On the far right-hand side are homeowners and renters

40:02who bought or rent through the private market.

40:04And in the middle are independent renters

40:07who pay their rent, but sometimes with assistance.

40:11So in Guelph, the responsibility for making all of this happen

40:14along the housing continuum is shared

40:16between the county of Wellington and the city.

40:20As Jane mentioned, the county is the service manager.

40:22And so the county is responsible

40:24for primarily providing the housing

40:26that's to the left of the pink line

40:28with of course administrative and financial support

40:31from the city.

40:33Whereas the city facilitates but doesn't build

40:36the housing supply that lands to the right of the pink line,

40:39which is mainly private market.

40:42And as of 2017, within Guelph,

40:45about 96% of this housing supply is private market housing

40:50which breaks down to about 65% ownership and 31% rental.

40:55But updated numbers on this are expected

40:57by the end of this year through the update

40:59to our housing affordability strategy.

41:04So there's a number of actions that the city has been taking

41:06that directly address housing

41:09and they fall within these areas that you see on this slide.

41:13So under the heading of ongoing financial support,

41:16we provide $17 million in base funding to the county

41:20per year for housing.

41:22So the housing stream of the funding that we provide

41:26for the overall social services,

41:28the other two streams being Ontario Works and Child Care.

41:31The city's provided $500,000 in base budget funding

41:35for affordable housing each year,

41:37more than $6 million to support of housing projects,

41:40downtown resources and matching funds,

41:43as well as financial implications for the actions identified

41:46from the housing workshop

41:48and doing our part to meet the housing pledge.

41:51These range from additional investment for our CMSM

41:54to improve access to social and supportive housing,

41:58people resources to improve and accelerate access

42:00to the city's housing development processes

42:03and making up for the lost development charge revenues

42:05required to enable the housing-related capital infrastructure.

42:09Staff are quantifying these budgetary impacts

42:11which will be presented as part of the city's multi-year budget

42:14which will be released on November 3rd.

42:17And the next laying the groundwork for growth

42:20by over $150 million being spent on growth-related projects

42:24in the past five years,

42:26implementing the comprehensive zoning by-law,

42:29licensing of short-term rentals,

42:31contributing to market housing through development

42:33fee exemptions to incent new units,

42:36completing environmental assessments,

42:38engineering studies and designs,

42:40investing $3 billion in infrastructure

42:43based on our master plans,

42:45updating our capital revenue tools to pay for infrastructure

42:49and applying for further capital infrastructure funding,

42:52implementing the capital program resource strategy

42:55to align human resources

42:56with capital delivery needs for infrastructure,

42:59developing the inflationary impact strategy

43:02to keep important infrastructure work moving forward

43:04during periods of significant uncertainty,

43:07improving internal project management practices

43:09for more streamlined capital delivery and fewer delays

43:13and constructing approximately 37 kilometers of servicing

43:17through 28 growth-related water, wastewater

43:20and roads projects in the past five years

43:22as well as supportive infrastructure

43:24including over 12 kilometers of sidewalks

43:27and cycling network implementation

43:29and lastly managing stormwater to support capacity

43:32for new growth in the system.

43:35We're facilitating an accelerated pace of development

43:37through our housing pledge commitments,

43:40streamlining our processes and implementing tech solutions

43:42for ongoing continuous improvement,

43:45strategically directing growth and infrastructure

43:47to priority areas in the downtown,

43:49the Guelph Innovation District and the Dolan Quarry

43:52and adding needed resources through predictive hiring

43:55practices and creating two new dedicated roles

43:58to respond to emerging needs.

44:00Two of these such examples

44:02are the recently hired development advisor,

44:04Kushla Matthews, who is here with us today

44:07and Kushla's gonna assist in working

44:09with the development community

44:10to explore partnership opportunities

44:13to advance affordable or supportive housing across the city

44:16and our housing stability advisor, Anthony Dolcetti

44:19who begins next week and he's gonna help us execute

44:22the recommendations from collective results,

44:25including our efforts to adopt

44:26a human rights-based approach to housing.

44:29Anthony's role will also strengthen our relationship

44:31with Wellington County and other local interest holders

44:34supporting housing needs along the left-hand side

44:36of the continuum.

44:37And then lastly, applying for funding,

44:39staff submitted an application in August

44:41to the Federal Housing Accelerator Fund

44:43often referred to as HAF,

44:45identifying initiatives that drive transformational change

44:48and accelerate the supply of housing within our community.

44:51Affordable housing was addressed

44:52in several of the identified initiatives,

44:54including advancing cash in lieu for parking,

44:57stormwater and parkland.

44:59Once potential funding is announced,

45:01which is anticipated this fall

45:02and it could offer up to $28 million,

45:05staff will quickly prioritize and implement the initiatives.

45:09We're also identifying gaps and opportunities internally

45:13through agile and responsive service delivery

45:15and through the Council-directed work by collective results

45:18as identified in staff recommendations

45:20one through eight that are being considered today.

45:23We will go through each of these recommendations shortly,

45:26but want to point out the example of seeking community feedback

45:29on the location and delivery

45:30for the provision of daytime shelter space

45:32and issuing a request for proposals

45:34to identify partners and funding sources.

45:37We're advocating for wealth.

45:39Our intergovernmental staff continue advocacy efforts

45:42to raise awareness and create opportunities

45:44for provincial and federal governments

45:45to work more closely with municipalities

45:48and coordinate efforts to increase housing supply.

45:51This includes advocacy specific to the housing pledge requests

45:54such as increasing and expediting housing supply

45:56that's outside of municipal control.

45:59Other key advocacy themes are the need for municipalities

46:01to be made whole financially

46:03and to have new tools to manage revenues and offset expenses.

46:08But housing of course isn't our only advocacy file

46:11and given the tremendous requirements to manage

46:13and respond to simultaneous and voluminous advocacy files,

46:18significant changes in key ministries

46:20and increasingly complex funding applications

46:23and government consultations,

46:25our intergovernmental services team

46:27is experiencing capacity challenges.

46:31We're also communicating and reporting on progress.

46:33We're reporting annually on growth management

46:35and affordable housing monitoring,

46:37our monthly building permits data

46:39and quarterly provincial reporting.

46:41And we're implementing our housing communication strategy

46:44that includes such tactics as the story map on gwealth.ca

46:47and sharing news through social media.

46:50This work is part of hundreds of other city services

46:53that support growth in our residents quality of life,

46:56like the 15,000 trees planted per year,

46:59150 kilometers of trails and multi-use paths,

47:03recreation programming for all ages

47:05and our groundbreaking this morning

47:07at the South End Community Center,

47:09the newly renovated police headquarters

47:11and the paramedic services station downtown

47:14and of course so much more.

47:18So there's a lot to achieve by 2026.

47:21At our July 11th workshop,

47:23our facilitator, Glenn Lombard,

47:25asked you to consider what you want to achieve on this file

47:28by the end of this term of council.

47:31So specifically what you want to be able to say

47:34that we collectively accomplished

47:36as it relates to the right hand side

47:37of the housing continuum.

47:39These themes reflect your collective interests

47:42and the last of which has evolved in light

47:44of recent council driven decisions and conversations.

47:47So staff have used that guidance

47:49for organizing our housing related work,

47:52identifying gaps in service and capacity

47:54and ultimately what's possible within our control

47:57and influence to inform recommendations

47:59for your consideration today.

48:01But as part of that exercise,

48:03we want to be transparent about what is not possible.

48:08So the city has very little control over number seven,

48:12achieve and maintain zero active appeals.

48:16This requires developers providing complete submissions

48:19that meet mandatory requirements on all applications,

48:22time and scope for collaborative problem solving,

48:25which the planning act restricts

48:27and no third party appeals,

48:30which the planning act does not restrict.

48:34What is needed as stated in our housing pledge

48:36is for the minister to exempt appeals

48:39of secondary plans and comprehensive zoning bylaws

48:42that account for increased population,

48:44densities, heights and end exclusionary zoning.

48:49And that the province work with municipalities

48:51to open the discussion on a new long-term,

48:54permanent municipal funding strategy

48:56to fund critical growth related infrastructure projects

48:59and until a new agreement is in place,

49:02ensure municipalities are made whole dollar for dollar

49:07to eliminate the unintended consequences

49:09of revenue development charges,

49:11reductions associated with bill 20 fee

49:13and with bill 23.

49:16We've recently referred to this

49:18as a new deal from the province.

49:21We've said all along, houses don't build community,

49:24water and sewer pipes don't build community.

49:27There are so many other factors to consider.

49:30If we spend all our money upfront

49:32to build the infrastructure to accommodate more houses,

49:35we won't have the money to contribute to social housing

49:39or to the amenities that make communities great,

49:42like the South End Community Center, for example.

49:46Had to get the second plug-in for that one today.

49:49We hosted that groundbreaking ceremony today.

49:52People in South End and across our community

49:54are excited about this facility

49:55and we're looking forward to having

49:57a great recreation facility in the South End.

50:00But we should be worried about how we're gonna fund

50:02future amenities like that center,

50:04like parks and trails, like snow plowing

50:07and other services that are a municipality's responsibility

50:10to deliver if we continue down this path.

50:15We talk about this in terms of housing units,

50:17buildings and beds, but we need to humanize this issue.

50:21We are not permitted to run a deficit.

50:23And if we do not get more funding

50:25from other levels of government to make all of this happen,

50:28we will be forced to raise property taxes or cut programs,

50:32which then threatens the quality of life and wealth,

50:35as well as threatening the affordability and wealth.

50:38What does raising property taxes

50:40do to the people who already can't afford groceries

50:42or who can't afford their bills now?

50:45You heard from the county that more families

50:47are looking for shelter space

50:48because they can no longer afford rent.

50:51In our efforts to solve the housing crisis,

50:53are we pushing more people out of their homes?

50:56If we spend all our money upfront

50:58to build the infrastructure to accommodate more houses,

51:01we won't have the money to contribute to social housing

51:04or the amenities that make communities great.

51:07I encourage you, as you listen to our recommendations

51:10and as you think about next steps

51:12and what you want staff to move forward with

51:14to remember the October 11th budget workshop,

51:17we are being asked to do even more with even less money.

51:21And this is important perspective to keep

51:22as we now walk you through the 17 staff recommendations.

51:29So going through the recommendations,

51:31number one, that the city of Guelph adopts

51:33a human rights based approach to housing,

51:37including a housing first philosophy

51:39to align with the national housing strategy.

51:42Number two, that the mayor and the CAO be directed

51:45to work with the county of Wellington Warden and CAO

51:48to conduct a review of the governance model

51:51of the county of Wellington social services committee

51:54to establish clarity and accountability regarding the city

51:57and the county's role in the approval of priorities

52:00and spending related to social services

52:02and report back to council no later than Q1 of 2022.

52:0724, sorry.

52:10Number three, that council supports the council,

52:13that council supports the county of Wellington's plan

52:15to host a housing and homelessness symposium

52:18no later than Q4 of 2023,

52:20including key community stakeholders

52:22to address the urgent needs facing the community.

52:25The planning committee should include representatives

52:28from the city of Guelph,

52:30the Guelph Wellington Ontario Health Team,

52:32the WDG public health,

52:34the WDG drug strategy,

52:36and the Guelph and Wellington Task Force

52:38for poverty elimination.

52:40The symposium should consider the community needs

52:43for housing on the left hand side of the continuum,

52:45including shelter services and permanent supportive housing,

52:49as well as the integration of health services

52:51in the housing sector.

52:54Number four, that council call on the county of Wellington

52:56to develop and lead a coordinated joint community

52:59advocacy effort as articulated in appendix A

53:03of the county of Wellington's preliminary homelessness plan,

53:06presented to council on September the 12th, 2023.

53:10Number five, that the mayor be directed to send a letter

53:13to the Ministry of Municipal Affairs and Housing,

53:16copied to the county of Wellington,

53:17the Premier of Ontario and area MPPs,

53:20requesting that the government of Ontario develop and adopt

53:23a provincial housing strategy that continues the donation

53:26that considers the donation of provincial lands

53:29for affordable and supportive housing

53:31and incorporates measurable targets and sufficient funds

53:34for ending homelessness and ensuring access of all Ontarians,

53:38including those with limited income to housing

53:40of an adequate standard without discrimination.

53:44Number six, that staff be directed to work

53:46with the county of Wellington, Guelph-Bollington,

53:49Ontario health team, the local supportive housing service

53:53providers to provide letters of support

53:55to the Ministry of Health, expressing the urgent need

53:57for accessible base funding to support wraparound health

54:00supports on the left side of the housing continuum.

54:04And that staff work with the CMHA, Waterloo, Wellington,

54:08to provide any necessary letter of support

54:10for the application to the Ministry of Health

54:12to establish an alternative care destination clinic.

54:18Number seven, that given the recent success of donated land

54:22for the Kindle supportive housing project,

54:24that council urge local developers and the Chamber of Commerce

54:27to discuss and consider opportunities for land donation

54:30to address urgent housing needs in Guelph.

54:33And that the city continue to utilize

54:35the strategic real estate program to look at all opportunities

54:39to repurpose city land and assets

54:41in ways to address housing needs.

54:44Number eight, the staff are directed to seek feedback

54:47from the DGBA, the local downtown social service agencies

54:51and the county of Wellington to consider the best locations

54:54and delivery method for the provision of a 12 hour service,

54:58seven days a week daytime shelter space

55:01in the downtown secondary plan area,

55:03reporting back to council on recommended next steps

55:06no later than November, 2023.

55:08Options presented should consider issuing a request

55:12for proposals to identify interested service partners

55:15and identification of possible funding sources.

55:19Staff are also directed to work with the Royal City Mission

55:21to consider a month to month extension

55:23of the current community benefit agreement

55:26to ensure consistent service provision

55:28until council has time to consider next steps.

55:32And number nine, complete the housing affordable strategy

55:36with a goal to enable greater supply and mix of housing

55:40to enhance and to enhance capacity, awareness and support

55:44for affordable housing throughout the community.

55:50And the balance of the recommendations, number 10,

55:52that the newly hired development advisor

55:54develop and support partnerships

55:56by establishing a community housing affordability

55:58strategy focus group to advance the housing supply initiatives

56:02along the right hand side of the housing continuum.

56:05Number 11, that the development advisor

56:06and housing stability advisor review all available incentives

56:10to increase supply in the housing market

56:11of both affordable and market rate housing.

56:14Number 12, that staff be directed

56:17to immediately prepare a zoning bylaw amendment

56:19that would permit as of right up to four residential units

56:23per lot within residential zones

56:25where the council approved comprehensive zoning bylaw

56:28permits a maximum of three residential units per lot.

56:31The implementing zoning bylaw may address criterion

56:34such as servicing capacity to support the proposed units.

56:39Number 13, that the city use the housing accelerator

56:41fund funding if received to incentivize approximately

56:46975 additional new residential units by prioritizing

56:49and implementing initiatives such as advancing a cash

56:52and loo program for parking, stormwater and parkland,

56:55developing an evaluation framework

56:57to optimize city owned land and supporting incentivizing

57:01and attracting development of housing types

57:03that the city has identified as most needed.

57:05And attachment number one provides a detailed overview

57:08of the city's half action plan initiatives.

57:11Number 14, that the mayor be directed to follow up

57:14on his correspondence to minister Calandra

57:16dated September 7th, 2023 to discuss the provincial actions

57:20identified in Guelph's housing pledge

57:22to help reach our housing targets,

57:24including making us whole financially.

57:27Number 15, that council call on the province of Ontario

57:30and the government of Canada to reconsider

57:32the fiscal framework in a new deal for municipalities

57:35to achieve healthy, equitable and thriving communities

57:38and refine the way we engage across orders of government.

57:42Number 16, that the city support local post-secondary

57:45institutions in requesting funding

57:47from other levels of government,

57:49beyond those already provided by the city

57:51in the form of development fee exemptions

57:53to expedite the development

57:54of more post-secondary accommodation spaces.

57:58And lastly, number 17, that the development advisor

58:00work with the Guelph and District Home Builders Association

58:03and Developers Association to advance outstanding sites

58:06that have approvals in place but have not been built

58:09and that the city maintain the list of approved

58:11and unbuilt sites.

58:13So thank you, I know that was a lot that we've covered.

58:17We obviously are available for any questions

58:21either now or after the delegations, thank you.

58:26Great, thank you.

58:27I'm glad that there wasn't like 30 recommendations.

58:32Wouldn't have been up there for a long time.

58:33But I am glad there was 17, so that's good.

58:38And there may even be a few more, so that's great.

58:41Thank you very much for stopping for putting this together.

58:43Really appreciate it and your presentation.

58:45Definitely I'm sure there'll be some questions

58:47but let's get to delegations first.

58:50And we have one, two, three, four, five.

58:52We have seven.

58:55For the seven, some of you are familiar to myself

58:59and others, so you have no more than five minutes.

59:03You will hear a chime at the, or like a bell or something,

59:07at the four minutes and 30 second mark,

59:08just kind of giving you a warning

59:10of your five minute timeframe being stopped there.

59:14And once your delegation is done, just stick around

59:17just in case there's a follow up question for you

59:19from any member of council.

59:21Some are here in person, actually most are here in person.

59:26One will be here over video for us.

59:29And to kick us off, we'll have Helen Fishburne,

59:32please come down.

59:34That's great.

59:36And Kristen, you are next, but you're in the wings, okay?

59:41So, and so Helen, thank you for coming.

59:46And go right ahead, the clock will start when you start.

59:52So, I'll go ahead and raise your advance.

59:54Do I advance my own slides right here?

59:55This, thank you.

1:00:04Hi, Mayor Guthrie and council members,

1:00:08thank you so much for allowing me to delegate today.

1:00:13I want to share some results with you

1:00:15on how mentally healthy is our city,

1:00:19which we recently conducted in August.

1:00:21And it also gives further context to the conversation

1:00:24that we're having around housing.

1:00:26The H.A. survey, my comments reflect

1:00:28our Ontario health team partners locally.

1:00:36So, the survey seeks to answer the question,

1:00:39how mentally healthy is your community?

1:00:41Although we have a lot of really good service data

1:00:44in the healthcare system,

1:00:45we wanted to really listen to our residents.

1:00:48How are they doing?

1:00:49What matters to them?

1:00:51And how are they feeling about the city

1:00:53that they're living in across Waterloo, Wellington?

1:00:55We surveyed 530 people through the Angus Reed Forum,

1:00:59a third of those folks were equity deserving communities,

1:01:03and we had some really interesting results.

1:01:0692% of our residents believe that our municipal leaders

1:01:10play a vital role in supporting

1:01:12the mental health of their communities.

1:01:14This was key.

1:01:16Our community is looking at actually asking

1:01:18all levels of our government

1:01:21to respond to the mental health crisis that we're in.

1:01:24This is not just a provincial issue anymore,

1:01:28where healthcare funding is traditionally coming from.

1:01:30Our community is asking for all of us,

1:01:33municipal leaders especially,

1:01:35to bring down the walls between funding,

1:01:38and to really look at creative and innovative solutions.

1:01:42We also heard from our community

1:01:44that there are five things that they prioritize

1:01:47in terms of their own mental health and wellness.

1:01:49No surprise here, these are foundational elements

1:01:52on which people build their wellness and health,

1:01:55including affordable food, affordable housing,

1:01:58personal and public safety, access to green space,

1:02:01and of course mental health and addiction services.

1:02:04And you'll note very much these issues

1:02:07are part of the municipal wheelhouse.

1:02:11Let's be honest, as we look at the ratings

1:02:13across our communities from our survey respondents,

1:02:18none of these ratings are awesome.

1:02:20We don't strive for a C plus rating in Guelph

1:02:24when it comes to how your mental health and wellness is doing.

1:02:27We wanna see those ratings in the 8.5 or 9, 9.5 or even 10

1:02:33when it comes to our mental health and wellness.

1:02:36And we certainly know we have work to do in the rural areas

1:02:39where there's deep rooted isolation and disconnection.

1:02:43Our strategy to address these issue

1:02:46needs to be a united urban and rural strategic focus,

1:02:51and it needs a united front

1:02:53in terms of how to best respond to these community issues.

1:02:59As the survey demonstrates,

1:03:01housing and health are intrinsically connected.

1:03:04We know that and that's certainly been the work

1:03:07of the city and the County of Wellington

1:03:09with all of us in healthcare for the past year especially.

1:03:13The survey's additional intel and motivation

1:03:17and along with the collective results,

1:03:18city staff recommendations, it really is time to act.

1:03:23The wellness of our community depends

1:03:25on our collective ability to lead,

1:03:27starting right here today with you and your decisions.

1:03:33So we wanna be clear, we definitely agree

1:03:36with the recommendations that have been put forward

1:03:38by the collective results and the city Guelph today.

1:03:42We also really want to prioritize those recommendations

1:03:46and develop a very tangible action plan.

1:03:49We challenge you to prioritize permanent housing,

1:03:52supportive housing and shelter urgently.

1:03:55We just heard that from city staff.

1:03:58Right now there are several permanent

1:03:59supported housing projects that are just waiting

1:04:01to be operationalized.

1:04:04Kindle's project alone gives a home for 32 people

1:04:07who don't have one right now.

1:04:08This includes healthcare supports for these 32 homes,

1:04:12plus supports for another 76 people

1:04:15across three permanent supportive housing projects

1:04:18in Guelph.

1:04:22We know that housing and health are very hot issues

1:04:24in our community.

1:04:26It feels often like this is a hot potato issue, however,

1:04:30that gets passed around from municipal government

1:04:32to provincial government to federal government

1:04:34and then back again.

1:04:37Rather than pass it, we are really asking today

1:04:40for you to hold the heat of that hot potato,

1:04:43lean into the discomfort of that heat,

1:04:46which means thinking differently and taking bold action.

1:04:49Passing the hot potato will result in more suffering

1:04:52and death, collectively sharing the heat

1:04:55and leading our way through it together

1:04:57will literally save lives.

1:05:00Thank you.

1:05:01Perfect, thank you.

1:05:02Yeah, thank you.

1:05:04Just letting everyone know, I hate to say this,

1:05:11but for decorum rules that we have in here,

1:05:15there's no kind of cheering.

1:05:16You can quietly think about it in your head or whatever,

1:05:19but in here we just, we don't do that

1:05:22because you never know the next person's opinion

1:05:24might be different, right?

1:05:25And that's what this room is supposed to be safe for,

1:05:28for multiple differences of opinions.

1:05:30So just if you could limit that, I'd appreciate it.

1:05:35And thank you for your presentation to us, Helen.

1:05:37And I have a follow-up question from Councillor Gullar,

1:05:40it seems.

1:05:42Thank you for your worship.

1:05:44Thank you for the presentation, Ms. Fitzgerald.

1:05:47I wanted to ask what you meant by breaking down

1:05:51the barriers in funding.

1:05:52We collect property taxes for roads, for parks,

1:05:59for city services, public transit, those things.

1:06:04And it is a province that is primarily responsible

1:06:06for these social issues.

1:06:09So I wanted to understand from your perspective

1:06:12what we can do better.

1:06:14Last week, we received a presentation from staff

1:06:19that let us know that if we were to build everything

1:06:22that we were planning to build,

1:06:23we'd be looking potentially 20, 22% property tax increase.

1:06:28So we're scaling that down

1:06:29and we're looking at a potential of eight to 10% tax increase.

1:06:33So in light of that,

1:06:35if you could help me understand when you said

1:06:37breaking down the barriers to funding,

1:06:40I would love to hear a little bit more about that.

1:06:44Thank you for the question and through you, the mayor.

1:06:48Listen, this is a very difficult issue.

1:06:50There's no question.

1:06:53I think the traditional ways

1:06:54that we have always understood our funding

1:06:57are no longer applicable.

1:06:59We can't continue to apply kind of traditional, rigid lines

1:07:04to our funding anymore.

1:07:06In a post-pandemic world, those rules don't apply anymore.

1:07:10There are literally people dying on the streets.

1:07:13We have to be able to look at what our community needs

1:07:17and be more creative

1:07:18than what those traditional funding pathways allow for.

1:07:23As healthcare leaders, we need to do that.

1:07:25We need to lower the walls between our organizations

1:07:28and create a more seamless system of care.

1:07:31As municipal leaders,

1:07:32we're asking you to lean into the creativity and innovation.

1:07:36You have some amazing reports in front of you

1:07:38that tell you how to do that.

1:07:41And as the province,

1:07:42we're going to be asking the province for the same thing.

1:07:45There needs to be flexibility on all parts.

1:07:48This isn't just the municipal government

1:07:50who's going to fix this

1:07:51and it's just not the provincial government.

1:07:53It's all of us.

1:07:54And it's all of us applying a different mindset

1:07:57and a different rule set to this problem.

1:08:01Yeah, I appreciate that.

1:08:02Thank you very much for this.

1:08:05Thank you, O'Rourke and then Richardson, please.

1:08:08Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:08:09Through you to Ms. Fishburne,

1:08:10just a question for clarification.

1:08:12So one of your slides says,

1:08:14we need to use a mental health lens

1:08:16when determining housing policies and programming.

1:08:19And is that what you mean?

1:08:21We need to be thinking about new ways of doing things

1:08:24about prioritization.

1:08:25What do you, what does the mental health lens mean municipally?

1:08:30Yeah, through you, Mayor Guthrie.

1:08:32The mental health lens is really about

1:08:35factoring mental health and wellness

1:08:37into every decision that gets made at the municipal level.

1:08:40Whether we're talking about transportation,

1:08:42whether we're talking about housing,

1:08:45every part of our city needs to be talking

1:08:48about mental health in a very conscious way.

1:08:51And cause wellness is part of every decision.

1:08:54So it's about factoring that in a very conscious way.

1:08:59And Richardson, please.

1:09:01Thank you through you, Mayor Guthrie,

1:09:02to Ms. Fishburne, thanks for your presentation today.

1:09:05You mentioned that the Kindle was supposed to open

1:09:08and it's sitting there waiting.

1:09:11My understanding was supposed to open at some point in October.

1:09:13Has there been a further delay on that?

1:09:15No, and certainly our Kindle project,

1:09:18you'll hear from them later, but it's,

1:09:21we're hoping to open it this fall.

1:09:25We have all the bricks and mortar that will be ready,

1:09:28but we're really waiting to fill that housing unit

1:09:33with support and with the staffing, right?

1:09:36Bricks and mortar are half the problem.

1:09:38The other part we need to resolve together

1:09:40to make sure that the program is staffed

1:09:42and people have the support that they need.

1:09:44Great, thank you.

1:09:46Thank you, Council Richardson.

1:09:48I don't see anybody else.

1:09:50Thank you, Helen.

1:09:50Really appreciate your time.

1:09:51Thank you.

1:09:54Kristen, you are up next.

1:09:59And Shakiba is in the wings.

1:10:06Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie and Council.

1:10:08Thank you for having me here this afternoon.

1:10:12I'm here to discuss youth homelessness

1:10:14as it pertains to the recommendations

1:10:16being presented before council today.

1:10:19I appreciate that the city's current goal

1:10:21is to address adult homelessness.

1:10:23And as a result, the scope of the collective results report

1:10:26that informed the recommendations

1:10:28was set at the age of 18.

1:10:30Transitional age youth often face barriers

1:10:33and are underrepresented in service planning

1:10:36as a result of their age

1:10:37and various age related cutoffs and service silos

1:10:40between children and adult services.

1:10:43As the only local provider of housing

1:10:44and homelessness services for transitional age youth,

1:10:47we wanted to ensure that the current experience of youth

1:10:50in our system is represented in our planning

1:10:52and that their needs are kept in mind

1:10:54as we look to the future.

1:10:56With a large portion of our funding

1:10:57that supports our work with this population

1:10:59set to expire in March 2024,

1:11:02it's important that Windham House

1:11:03is included in this conversation.

1:11:06As you may know, Windham House recently celebrated

1:11:0950 years of programs and services in youth homelessness.

1:11:12When Windham House began

1:11:14to institute diversion practices in 2018,

1:11:17there were 51 chronically homeless youth on the list.

1:11:20Today, there are three.

1:11:23Though we have made a 94% reduction

1:11:25in chronic homelessness in youth,

1:11:27Windham House is supporting more youth than ever before

1:11:29with housing, homelessness, and healthcare.

1:11:32In 2022, Windham House provided diversion

1:11:35and prevention supports to 144 youth

1:11:38to keep them out of emergency services.

1:11:40We provided healthcare supports

1:11:42to another 300.

1:11:44The recommendations in the Housing and Guelph Workshop

1:11:46Actions and Responses document address

1:11:49that what many know as the left side

1:11:51of the housing continuum,

1:11:53but the recommendations do not discuss prevention.

1:11:56At Windham House, we do important prevention work

1:11:59from our shelter service.

1:12:01When a youth is experiencing homelessness for the first time

1:12:03or they have experienced multiple barriers to service

1:12:06and have been chronically homeless,

1:12:08we explore critical intervention moments

1:12:10and other potential support options

1:12:12to keep young people off the streets

1:12:14and out of the shelters wherever possible.

1:12:17In our experience, healthcare, mental health supports,

1:12:20and a safe place to reside are best provided in tandem

1:12:23and are all needed to provide a holistic intervention.

1:12:26Windham House is wrapping up a successful

1:12:28two-year pilot project,

1:12:30the Concurrent Specialized Youth Hub.

1:12:32This service provides a low barrier,

1:12:34complex capable health and mental healthcare

1:12:36to youth experiencing homelessness.

1:12:38It has been instrumental in driving reductions

1:12:41and promoting wellness among transitional age youth

1:12:44with the most complex mental health

1:12:45and addiction supports needs.

1:12:48The Concurrent Specialized Youth Hub is funded by SUAP,

1:12:50a program of Health Canada,

1:12:52and the SUAP funding ends on March 31st, 2024.

1:12:57It is critical that this funding is included

1:12:59in the collective advocacy for health dollars

1:13:02and that it remain embedded in Windham House

1:13:04where we can provide wrap-round supports to youth

1:13:06in a coordinated and youth-focused manner.

1:13:09As we move into the cold season

1:13:11and we are worried about folks

1:13:12who might be outside needing housing and shelter,

1:13:15I would encourage council and those involved in planning

1:13:17to keep a prevention lens at the forefront of their thinking,

1:13:21along with a human rights-based approach to housing.

1:13:24If Windham House had focused our resources in 2018,

1:13:27solely on building more shelters

1:13:29to address the needs of the 51 youth on the list,

1:13:32rather than increasing efforts around prevention,

1:13:34stabilization, and permanent solutions,

1:13:37we might have a shelter right now with 51 youth,

1:13:42or potentially even more,

1:13:43considering we prevented diversion cases

1:13:46of 150 youth in the last year.

1:13:49Youth Homelessness is not as visible

1:13:51in our community at the moment,

1:13:53and it's critical that we keep it that way.

1:13:56Please include us in any broader advocacy efforts

1:13:58for funding dollars so that we can continue

1:14:00to prioritize the needs of youth

1:14:02in our supportive housing and prevention programs.

1:14:05This concludes my comments.

1:14:07Thank you. Thank you so much.

1:14:09Thank you for the work that you

1:14:10and your organization is doing too.

1:14:12Good job.

1:14:14Is there any follow-up questions for Kristen at all?

1:14:18No, okay. Thank you. Very, very much.

1:14:22Okay.

1:14:24Shikiba is next from the Chamber of Commerce.

1:14:29And then I think Dominica is in the way.

1:14:31Yeah, Dominica is here from the

1:14:35Guelph-Walenten Poverty Task Force.

1:14:37So you're in the wings.

1:14:38Shikiba, over to you whenever you're ready.

1:14:42Thank you.

1:14:43Good afternoon, Mayor Guthrie,

1:14:44counselors, and city staff.

1:14:46Today I have three key messages to convey.

1:14:49Firstly, I'll start off with some thank yous.

1:14:52I'd like to reiterate my thanks to staff and council

1:14:54for your efforts in continuing to move forward

1:14:57with this important work.

1:14:58Like everyone here today,

1:14:59staff and council recognize how important it is

1:15:02that our community continue to support

1:15:04the most vulnerable among us.

1:15:06I'd like to recognize the effort and perseverance

1:15:09of the many social and health service providers in Guelph.

1:15:12Success to date is because of capable and committed people

1:15:15are doing extraordinary work

1:15:17within a chronically underfunded system.

1:15:20I'd also like to recognize the significant financial

1:15:22and in-kind contributions of volunteers and donors to date.

1:15:26We certainly are a community that cares.

1:15:30Secondly, I'd like to focus on the need for urgency.

1:15:34As acknowledged at your September 12th meeting,

1:15:36our community desperately requires an integrate health

1:15:39and housing plan to address the mental health,

1:15:42substance use, and homelessness challenges before us.

1:15:45This is a crisis.

1:15:47To that end, I believe that we must prioritize

1:15:49and coordinate our activities

1:15:51in operationalizing permanent supportive housing projects,

1:15:54reimagining our shelter ecosystem

1:15:56to include daytime facilities,

1:15:58and press forward with other options

1:16:00for emergency housing needs as winter quickly approaches.

1:16:04I also believe that a symposium is a critical launching pad

1:16:07for the work and collaboration that is required.

1:16:10And I would urge that this takes place

1:16:12before the end of this year.

1:16:15I am pleased to hear of the recent hiring

1:16:17of a development advisor

1:16:18and housing stability advisor roles

1:16:20that will increase staff capacity.

1:16:22My hope is that they are able

1:16:23to tackle these priorities quickly.

1:16:26Thirdly, I kindly ask that you don't forget

1:16:29about the need for an effective structure

1:16:31to ensure collaborative, coordinated,

1:16:33and accountable actions.

1:16:35Several recommendations have been brought forward to you,

1:16:38but one significant one is missing.

1:16:40A version of the system recommendation number three

1:16:43as identified in the collective results report.

1:16:46During data collection and through stakeholder engagement,

1:16:48it was identified that there is a siloed approach

1:16:51across mental health, substance use,

1:16:52and homelessness service areas.

1:16:55And that needs to be addressed

1:16:56in order to facilitate better collaboration and coordination.

1:17:00So to effectively solve for this,

1:17:02we need a structure that can set priorities,

1:17:04activate resources, and be held accountable for progress.

1:17:08Just a couple of weeks ago, community leaders,

1:17:10many of whom are in the room today,

1:17:12had the opportunity to hear and learn

1:17:14about a similar journey that's occurred in London, Ontario.

1:17:17One that acknowledged the crisis,

1:17:19that established a bias towards action,

1:17:23and that successfully developed a whole of community response,

1:17:26a structure and philosophy that I believe

1:17:28can be an inspiration for all of us.

1:17:31Our collective counterparts in London

1:17:33have offered materials and contacts

1:17:35as resources for us to leverage.

1:17:37We don't need to start anything from scratch,

1:17:39and the Chamber Network would be happy to help identify

1:17:41any additional resources and partners

1:17:43to accelerate this planning.

1:17:46I'd like to wrap by taking a brief moment

1:17:47to highlight our network,

1:17:49some of whom are in the room today,

1:17:51and others who regularly exemplify

1:17:53that business at its best

1:17:54is about making our community better.

1:17:57From champions like Skyline,

1:17:58who donated their time in capital,

1:18:00and to the home builders and developers

1:18:02who are putting the work in

1:18:03to be better partners with the city,

1:18:05and make progress across the entire housing continuum

1:18:08for our community.

1:18:10Thank you again for your time and commitment

1:18:12on this important work,

1:18:13and as ever, please consider the Guelph Chamber,

1:18:15your partner.

1:18:16Let's keep going.

1:18:17Thank you.

1:18:18Great, thank you very much, Shakiba,

1:18:20for your time and your presentation,

1:18:21and as your follow-up looks like,

1:18:23Councillor Allt has one.

1:18:25Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor,

1:18:26through you to Mishiani.

1:18:30Thank you very much for presenting the notion

1:18:32of a structure that is necessary,

1:18:34and with reference to the London model,

1:18:36because I am very limited in my familiarity

1:18:39with the London model.

1:18:40I was wondering if you could expand upon that,

1:18:42and how it might be applicable in Guelph.

1:18:45Sure, there's some through the Mayor.

1:18:47Thank you, Councillor Allt, for the question.

1:18:49There's quite a few extensive materials

1:18:52that really can outline the structure in depth,

1:18:56but I think what's most important is that

1:18:59there are co-created governance and accountability tables,

1:19:03action tables, priority tables,

1:19:06that are co-led by both community and elected officials

1:19:10and municipal leaders to drive the work forward.

1:19:15And I think that when you take a look at the structure,

1:19:19it can really be used as a model for us to consider

1:19:23how we actually execute and implement

1:19:26on the recommendations and activities

1:19:28that are identified in the report.

1:19:30Thank you.

1:19:32Councillor O'Rourke.

1:19:34Thanks, Mayor Guthrie, through you to Mishiani.

1:19:38Is London the provincial municipal service provider

1:19:42for that region?

1:19:44Correct, they are one-tier municipality.

1:19:46So I'm curious then, through you, Mayor Guthrie,

1:19:48have you brought the same request and documentation

1:19:51to the county, right?

1:19:53There is a jurisdictional issue

1:19:54that we've talked about a lot before.

1:19:57And so is the same pressure being applied

1:19:59at the County Social Services Committee

1:20:01and at County Council?

1:20:02Thank you for the question, Councillor, through the Mayor.

1:20:06So yes, fortunately, we did have staff representation

1:20:09from the County of Wellington present

1:20:11for our visit in London.

1:20:14The Director of Housing was there.

1:20:16And yes, certainly they are a partner at the table,

1:20:19that these messages and this work,

1:20:21especially on behalf of service providers

1:20:24that work closely with the County of Wellington,

1:20:25this is all getting to them as well.

1:20:28Respectfully, I am not their constituent

1:20:31and or the CEO of their Chamber of Commerce.

1:20:34So I come to you with my requests

1:20:36and hope that this Council can hold

1:20:39that other municipal body accountable.

1:20:41Okay, thanks.

1:20:42Thank you.

1:20:44Okay, and Councillor Chew.

1:20:48Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

1:20:49Thank you for your delegation.

1:20:51You touched on the co-created governance model

1:20:54that London has adopted when they're going

1:20:57about the relationships.

1:21:00And co-creation really is prefaced

1:21:02on goodwill and collaboration.

1:21:04I was just wondering, just alluding to my colleague's comment

1:21:09that we are two tier.

1:21:10How can we, in your opinion, facilitate that goodwill

1:21:15in relationship building,

1:21:16especially with our new positions here at the city,

1:21:19the development advisor?

1:21:23Sure, thank you for the question, Councillor Chew,

1:21:25through the Mayor.

1:21:26I mean, I think there's a lot of opportunity

1:21:28for us to come to the table together collectively

1:21:30to identify priorities,

1:21:34understanding that we have right now

1:21:36really specific roles and responsibilities.

1:21:39But as you heard from my colleague, Helen Fishburne,

1:21:44we are trying to solve a complex issue,

1:21:47and that can't be solved if we are only gonna stay inside

1:21:50of really specific designated lanes

1:21:52and check boxes on process.

1:21:55So we actually, if we can come together

1:21:57and create what it is we need to accomplish,

1:22:00we can also create the tools, processes,

1:22:02identify the necessary levers that we can then task

1:22:05specific organizations and people to pull

1:22:08to get the job done.

1:22:09So it is gonna require something different.

1:22:12Your right, goodwill and collaboration

1:22:14will be key, a center to that,

1:22:16and leadership will be necessary to get that done.

1:22:20But it is possible, and we have some folks

1:22:22to look to learn from.

1:22:26And Quassan, please.

1:22:28Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor, to the delegate.

1:22:32Thank you for your delegation.

1:22:33And in the same spirit as my Councillor colleagues

1:22:37about collaboration and working together

1:22:39with different partnerships,

1:22:41I think you alluded to it when you were responding

1:22:42to Councillor O'Rourke's question,

1:22:44but I just wanted to get a sense of what your advocacy

1:22:46looks like at the county level,

1:22:48just because, and I think you mentioned,

1:22:51this is your city, but knowing what we know about

1:22:55the county and that important role that they play

1:22:57in providing housing and in the nature of being creative,

1:23:02is that something that you've been doing

1:23:04or what plan on doing in the future?

1:23:07Sure, thanks for the question, Councillor through the Mayor.

1:23:10So we certainly keep our county representatives,

1:23:14both in elected positions and staff,

1:23:16apprised of our activities and our work.

1:23:18And like I said, a lot of the key work happens,

1:23:21kind of boots on the ground on behalf of service providers

1:23:24with them.

1:23:25We have previously approached the county

1:23:28who has specifically identified and named

1:23:31that I look to you folks and bring this forward

1:23:35to City Council.

1:23:36And so I will continue to do both in an ongoing basis.

1:23:41Thank you. Thank you.

1:23:43Seeing nothing further.

1:23:46Oh, I have to say it, I'm circling.

1:23:49Okay, go ahead.

1:23:50You're going to Councillor Jude,

1:23:51just make sure it's right to questions, okay?

1:23:53Okay, I just want to follow up on that as well.

1:23:58How can we set the tone and expectation at the forefront?

1:24:02Like we have one of the,

1:24:03and one of our recommendations to apply a human's right

1:24:06approach to housing,

1:24:07how can you as the chamber help facilitate the language

1:24:13from that and disseminate that

1:24:15into actual tangible action items?

1:24:18Because I think you guys play a unique role

1:24:20in facilitating between stakeholders

1:24:22that capacity that we aren't able to necessarily

1:24:26at this high level.

1:24:27Absolutely. Thank you, Councillor Chew, through the mayor.

1:24:30So we do have a unique opportunity to convene

1:24:34and connect stakeholders across communities,

1:24:37across jurisdictions, across sectors and industry.

1:24:41And so certainly we'd be happy to play a role

1:24:43in doing that work.

1:24:45If we're brought into the conversation

1:24:47on building a process and accountability

1:24:49and the governance structure,

1:24:50we'd be happy to help identify resources or partners.

1:24:53There are folks who are probably well equipped

1:24:55to contribute who aren't at the table yet

1:24:58that we have relationships with

1:25:00and can certainly, like you said, help translate

1:25:03the requests, the key messages as necessary

1:25:06to get the job done.

1:25:07So we'd be happy to do whatever's necessary to do so.

1:25:13And one more, actually, don't go run on away there,

1:25:15Councillor Bustel.

1:25:18Thank you for the presentation, Shakiva.

1:25:20So I have two questions.

1:25:22From where I sit, I feel very heavily downloaded

1:25:26from levels of government.

1:25:28So my first question is, can you speak about the advocacy,

1:25:33the lobbying that you may have done

1:25:36at the other levels of government,

1:25:38either the Chamber of Commerce had

1:25:40or your group together of stakeholders,

1:25:43but from where I sit, like my shoulders are,

1:25:47in terms of the local level of government,

1:25:50many years of downloading and the purse is pretty,

1:25:55it's a change purse now, it's no longer a wallet.

1:25:57And then I have just one other question.

1:26:00Sure, thank you for the question,

1:26:02Councillor through the mayor.

1:26:03I sympathize with that burden.

1:26:06It's acknowledged and recognized as really,

1:26:10I believe, CAO Stewart last week around budget said

1:26:14that you have an impossible task in front of you.

1:26:16And I absolutely agree.

1:26:18You're in a very challenging position.

1:26:20We have certainly supported our partners

1:26:24at other levels of government in funding support,

1:26:28informally and formally, literally at the table

1:26:31in letters of support and so on,

1:26:33and we'll continue to do so.

1:26:35One thing that I know that is effective

1:26:37is that collective advocacy requires coordinated approach

1:26:44and where letter writing can be effective.

1:26:47It's just one tactic inside of a toolbox

1:26:49of all kinds of things that we could take on.

1:26:52And I also know that it's easier to say yes

1:26:54to something that is articulated in a way

1:26:58that aligns with government priorities and mandates.

1:27:01And so there's some work to be done for us

1:27:03to get everyone on the same page and understanding

1:27:06what it is we're trying to accomplish,

1:27:08how that would get done, what it would take,

1:27:10and what other contributions would be at the table.

1:27:12And that's the missing work that I hope

1:27:14we can undertake as soon as possible.

1:27:17Thank you.

1:27:18And this is a question that, you know,

1:27:19I'll ask the staff when we get around to the staff.

1:27:21It's around affordability.

1:27:24And can you talk a little bit about what your role was

1:27:27and what you see your role as moving forward

1:27:31in working with developers around affordability?

1:27:34And you know, we see the continuum, you know,

1:27:36the right side, the left side,

1:27:37and there's the market affordability.

1:27:40Can you speak a little bit about that?

1:27:43Sure, thank you for the question, counselor.

1:27:45Through the mayor, the economics of growth

1:27:50is an important factor inside of the conversation

1:27:53for increasing supply across the housing continuum.

1:27:56And we bring, personally, I'm not the expert in it.

1:28:01What we do, what I do is always to bring the experts

1:28:04to the table to try and solve for the problems at hand.

1:28:07And so there are unique levers and ideas

1:28:11that are available to us.

1:28:13I think that as our organization has the opportunity

1:28:17to make sure that we're looking at best practice

1:28:19and that we can hold all of our members accountable

1:28:21to their roles and responsibilities

1:28:23and in ensuring affordability.

1:28:26It is a challenging economic landscape right now.

1:28:30So there's some things that are just out of our hands,

1:28:32but there are some opportunities that I think we can,

1:28:35you know, levers, financial tools, policies

1:28:38that we could pull on to increase affordability

1:28:42on across the housing continuum.

1:28:44So happy to discuss that inside of this work

1:28:46as we move forward.

1:28:48Thank you very much.

1:28:49Thank you, counsel.

1:28:50And counselor Downer.

1:28:53Thanks.

1:28:54Through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:28:55So I guess just sort of your most recent comments

1:29:00sort of following up to counselor classes comment

1:29:03about your own membership and accountability.

1:29:06So I guess we're talking about the home builders association

1:29:09and their appeal of the zoning by-law,

1:29:12which was doing part of it was to increase the supply

1:29:14and modernize zoning by-law.

1:29:16So can you tell me what kind of work you're doing

1:29:19within your own membership and the development community?

1:29:22And then the second part of that is

1:29:24around the past about the affordability.

1:29:26So that's the first part.

1:29:28And then the second part, my wardmate and I,

1:29:30we met with a major developer, major growth developer,

1:29:34and asked, well, if we waived all the fees and you did this,

1:29:38would you be passing along those savings

1:29:40to make affordability?

1:29:41And they said, absolutely not.

1:29:42We would be going market on everything.

1:29:45So I guess what kind of work is happening

1:29:48in your own membership with the development community

1:29:52around those issues of affordability

1:29:54and accountability?

1:29:56Thank you for the question, Councillor, through the mayor.

1:29:59So absolutely, we've been working closely

1:30:01with several local developers and home builders

1:30:05on all of the work we've been doing

1:30:06and putting forward over the last several months

1:30:09and last probably 18, 24 months for that matter,

1:30:13working closely, bringing folks together

1:30:15to the table with city staff, for example,

1:30:17to address opportunities and challenges

1:30:20in building the housing pledge and so on.

1:30:23So we've been connecting and convening folks

1:30:26to bring that perspective to the table.

1:30:28The Home Builders Association is a distinct association

1:30:32outside of the Chamber Network, but we are partners

1:30:36and many of those folks are cross membership.

1:30:40And I know that there are a lot of committed folks

1:30:44around that table as well that are actually

1:30:46currently actively working with city staff,

1:30:48for example, to move work forward.

1:30:51I believe it's one of your recommendations.

1:30:53And you have a letter on behalf of the association

1:30:56speaking to that work as well.

1:30:57So there is a commitment from the sector to do more,

1:31:01to elevate how they show up as a partner to the table

1:31:05and to contribute to all of the affordability issues

1:31:10across the continuum.

1:31:11The conditions for business are not the same for everybody

1:31:15and the economic landscape looks differently

1:31:18for every business and organization.

1:31:21So I think that those nuances are important,

1:31:24but I wholeheartedly believe that it is part

1:31:27of my responsibility and role to make sure

1:31:29that we accomplish what we set out as a collective priority

1:31:33and I'm happy to play that role as we move this work forward.

1:31:40Okay, seeing nothing further.

1:31:42Thank you very much for your time.

1:31:43Appreciate it.

1:31:49Dominica is next and thank you so much.

1:31:54Dominica is from the Guelph-Olington Poverty Task Force,

1:31:58sort of one knows.

1:32:00The next person up in the wings is James, James Smith,

1:32:04but looks like James will be joining us by video.

1:32:08So Dominica, thank you so much for coming

1:32:11and I'll turn it over to you.

1:32:13Wonderful.

1:32:14Hi, Margarita, three members of council.

1:32:15It's great to be joining you today.

1:32:17I wanna begin by expressing my appreciation

1:32:20for the dedication and effort put forth by city staff

1:32:23and all of you in addressing these vital issues.

1:32:26All while managing policy changes and financial pressures.

1:32:30The ongoing work highlights the pressing nature

1:32:33of housing, health and poverty in our community

1:32:35and the need for action.

1:32:37I'd like to express support for the staff recommendations

1:32:40in the report and emphasize a few key areas.

1:32:44First, I strongly support the city's adoption

1:32:46of a human rights-based approach to housing,

1:32:48including a housing first philosophy.

1:32:51This approach is instrumental in upholding the rights

1:32:54and dignity of Guelph residents.

1:32:56It provides a valuable framework

1:32:57for decision-making and advocacy

1:33:00and as a nationally legislated right,

1:33:02it positions well favorably for partnerships

1:33:05and resources from other levels of government.

1:33:08Second, urgent advocacy is needed with the Ministry of Health

1:33:11for permanent supportive housing,

1:33:13operational base funding and resources

1:33:15to address local acute health crises.

1:33:18Significant progress has been made in these areas

1:33:20in our community in recent years.

1:33:22Securing this funding is critical to realizing our vision

1:33:26of enabling individuals not only to access

1:33:28and maintain housing,

1:33:30but to be well with health needs met.

1:33:33Third, a number of recommendations speak to collaboration

1:33:36between the city, county and community partners.

1:33:39In these challenging times,

1:33:41ensuring that our efforts are complimentary, aligned

1:33:44and working in tandem is crucial for success

1:33:46in addressing the housing and homelessness crisis.

1:33:49I believe that the proposed housing health symposium

1:33:52can help with this.

1:33:53And I also want to highlight the importance

1:33:55of ensuring that the housing affordability strategy

1:33:58and the 10 year housing and homelessness plan

1:34:01complement each other to maximize their impact.

1:34:04Lastly, I want to commend the city for hiring staff

1:34:07to support housing work.

1:34:09This is not only encouraging,

1:34:10it makes me hopeful that this new capacity

1:34:13can build on existing efforts to effectively contribute

1:34:16to addressing community housing need

1:34:18across the housing continuum.

1:34:20Addressing community housing need is a monumental task

1:34:24that no one level of government or key player can do alone.

1:34:28A multi-pronged approach is necessary

1:34:30with each level of government playing a role

1:34:32in activating the mechanisms available to them.

1:34:36To determine the most effective mechanisms,

1:34:38we must have a clear understanding of housing need,

1:34:42an awareness of our community's capacity

1:34:44to respond to that need with evidence-based solutions.

1:34:48This must include considering our ability

1:34:50to maintain existing housing at a high quality,

1:34:53prevent loss of deeply affordable housing,

1:34:56and create new housing with priority given

1:34:58to the greatest needs.

1:35:00To action this, it's crucial that we consider

1:35:03who is best positioned to address specific housing needs.

1:35:07For example, let's consider our critical need

1:35:10for deeply affordable housing,

1:35:12housing that someone can afford on a minimum wage job

1:35:14or income supports like social assistance.

1:35:17Though the private sector can play an important role

1:35:20in donating land, providing in-kind development support

1:35:23or making contributions to housing efforts

1:35:25through initiatives like the Home for Good campaign,

1:35:28they are not best positioned

1:35:30to create the deeply affordable housing that we need.

1:35:36If we are serious about meeting this need in our community,

1:35:39it is critical that we bolster nonprofit, co-op,

1:35:42and public housing to ensure we have sustained capacity

1:35:45to respond now and into the future.

1:35:48We need to be ready as a community

1:35:50for investment by upper levels of government

1:35:52so we can have the most effective impact

1:35:54for community members.

1:35:57Though the County of Wellington

1:35:58is the Consolidated Municipal Service Manager,

1:36:01it's essential to consider the levers available to the city

1:36:04and sometimes only to the city,

1:36:06to action affordable housing,

1:36:08including on the left-hand side of the housing continuum.

1:36:12I'm encouraged by the work proposed

1:36:14for the Housing Affordability Strategy

1:36:16and the City's Housing Accelerator Fund application.

1:36:19I trust these initiatives will identify ways

1:36:21to align affordable housing resources,

1:36:23financial incentives, land,

1:36:25zoning and planning tools to activate housing

1:36:28across the full housing continuum.

1:36:31Lastly, with it being the International Day

1:36:34for the Eradication of Poverty,

1:36:36it's important to recognize

1:36:37that people not being able to afford housing

1:36:39is not only rooted in the financialization

1:36:42and cost of housing, but also in inadequate incomes.

1:36:46As we face increasing pressures

1:36:48and a growing sense of urgency,

1:36:50we must not forget to also address root causes.

1:36:54Housing advocacy to upper levels of government

1:36:56must also call for income-based responses.

1:36:59Thank you for your time.

1:37:01Great, thank you very much.

1:37:03And let me see if there's any councillor all please.

1:37:06Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie,

1:37:07through you to Ms. McPherson and Ms. McPherson.

1:37:11I'd like to call you Dominique,

1:37:12but I was like formality in these situations.

1:37:15I wanna thank you for your last words

1:37:17about the eradication of poverty in particular.

1:37:20And I'm gonna start off with that.

1:37:21I've got two questions, I believe, for you.

1:37:24It strikes me that as we're talking about housing here,

1:37:27what we're really talking about

1:37:28is poverty, mental health, alienation,

1:37:30self-esteem, and affordability crisis.

1:37:34I was wondering if you could comment on that,

1:37:36given your role within the community addressing

1:37:39the various elements of poverty.

1:37:43Housing strikes me as being only one pillar of this.

1:37:46And what concerns me is that more and more housing

1:37:51is out of the grasp of people on lower incomes and less.

1:37:56Yeah, thank you for that question.

1:37:58And to your point, it's essential that we recognize

1:38:02that a root cause of many of these issues and pressures

1:38:05that people are faced in is inadequate incomes.

1:38:07I'm sure it's no surprise to any of you,

1:38:10because you're familiar and have done advocacy

1:38:11on social assistance rates,

1:38:13but a single adult in Ontario works receives a maximum.

1:38:16$733 per month for all basic needs,

1:38:20with only 390 of that allocated for housing.

1:38:24You know that that's far too low.

1:38:26It's critical that we are embedding

1:38:28in all of our action-oriented work,

1:38:30amplifying calls for income-based responses,

1:38:33increasing social assistance rates, basic income,

1:38:37looking at benefits that benefit people across experiences.

1:38:40And having the support of municipalities,

1:38:42part of your intergovernmental efforts,

1:38:44amplifying that is super appreciated.

1:38:47And I think it's also important

1:38:49when we think about these broader pressures

1:38:50facing our community that it can be challenging

1:38:53because we have so many problems to address.

1:38:56I think it's also critical

1:38:57that we're challenging misconceptions and stigma

1:39:00and the discrimination that people are facing in tandem

1:39:03with the income pressures and housing pressures

1:39:05and health pressures that they're experiencing.

1:39:07And I think council has played a champion role

1:39:11of that and around planning processes and everything else.

1:39:13And I think we need to continue

1:39:15to be collaborating on these efforts

1:39:17and for you to be leveraging any opportunities you have

1:39:19to join us in these efforts of calling

1:39:21for the change that we know is necessary.

1:39:24Just following up on the 733 dollars a month,

1:39:27what then is the affordability level

1:39:30for somebody say on that absolutely lowest rung,

1:39:34would they be putting out for housing?

1:39:36And realistically, are we actually looking at building housing

1:39:40that can be attainable by those people?

1:39:43Yeah, so I'm glad that you asked that

1:39:44because when I talk about affordable housing,

1:39:46I am thinking about someone's ability to afford that housing

1:39:50at 30% of their income is generally

1:39:53the affordability benchmark that's provided.

1:39:56And there's actually been some really incredible work

1:39:59done around that across the country.

1:40:00Some of you may be familiar

1:40:01with the housing assessment resource tools research.

1:40:04If not, I will send you a follow-up email.

1:40:06I know Councillor Goller has shared that

1:40:07and Mayor Guthrie has recently met

1:40:09with one of the researchers involved in that work.

1:40:11And it's really helping to create a consistent measure

1:40:14to be able to look at community housing need

1:40:15from an income-based lens,

1:40:17looking at census-based data around core housing need.

1:40:21And I think, yeah, to your point,

1:40:24I think when we're looking at specific income sources

1:40:27like social assistance,

1:40:28we're really looking at rent gear to income housing

1:40:31in that context or supplementing those income supports

1:40:34through rent supplements in the nonprofit

1:40:37or co-op market in our community.

1:40:40Thank you.

1:40:41I don't know whether you know the answer to this,

1:40:42but I'm gonna ask the question anyway.

1:40:44From your experience, what are the types of housing?

1:40:47Forget about costs and all that,

1:40:49but what types of housing are needed?

1:40:51Because I'm seeing a number of families

1:40:53that are being dislocated.

1:40:54And I think quite often we're talking about affordability.

1:40:56We're talking about individuals,

1:40:58potentially on the street,

1:40:59or in need of transitional housing.

1:41:01What about the families in Guelph as well?

1:41:03Yeah, of course.

1:41:04Thanks for that question.

1:41:06Although I'm here in a capacity

1:41:08of the poverty elimination strategy

1:41:10with an obvious wish to see us prioritize

1:41:12the depth of need of people facing

1:41:14some of the greatest crisis and precarity in housing,

1:41:17I do know that there's pressures

1:41:18across the housing continuum in our community,

1:41:20of which your position to think about and look at.

1:41:23What I would encourage is gaining clarity on defining needs

1:41:27so that you have a sense of where

1:41:28that greatest depth of need is.

1:41:30And when we're talking about the different types of housing,

1:41:33it's really you see it across the continuum

1:41:35in terms of what that can look like,

1:41:38rank your to income housing,

1:41:39supportive housing, transitional housing.

1:41:41And as I mentioned,

1:41:43looking at who can actually provide that housing,

1:41:45which sectors are best position.

1:41:47I think we need a whole amount

1:41:50of different types of housing.

1:41:52And I think the biggest component of that

1:41:53is centering people's needs

1:41:55and what's going to work best for them.

1:41:57I didn't emphasize that enough in my delegation,

1:42:00but it's also crucial that we are centering the voices

1:42:02of folks who are experiencing these issues

1:42:04across the continuum.

1:42:06And I know as counselors, you and Mayor,

1:42:08do a really great job staff as well

1:42:10of listening to those concerns directly from community members.

1:42:13And I would encourage you to continue doing so

1:42:14to hear what's going to work best for people.

1:42:18Thank you.

1:42:19And just to let you know,

1:42:20I'm going to telegraph to staff.

1:42:21I'm going to ask them the same question.

1:42:23I think this one's really important type matters a lot.

1:42:26Thank you.

1:42:29Councillor work is next.

1:42:35Thank you, Margot three through you to miss McPherson.

1:42:39Can you help me understand how the concept

1:42:43or the principle of housing as a human right?

1:42:48What's the expectation on the municipality

1:42:50when you adopt housing as a human right?

1:42:52What's the expectation on the municipality

1:42:54to meet all of those things that it means?

1:42:56And I'm thinking especially in light of the province

1:42:59removing rent controls on anything built or occupied

1:43:02after 2018, the municipality can never fill that gap

1:43:06that's been created, right?

1:43:08So what's the, what is the expectation when we say,

1:43:10yeah, we are going to adopt housing

1:43:12as a human right principle.

1:43:17And so what is the community's understanding of that?

1:43:20Yeah, thank you for that question.

1:43:22And I will highlight,

1:43:23I know the collective results report

1:43:25did mention some great work happening across the country.

1:43:28Shift cities is one that you can look to

1:43:30for resourcing around that.

1:43:32But I think I'll just first start by saying,

1:43:34in many senses, you are already implementing a commitment

1:43:37to a right to housing.

1:43:39City staff have been supporting that in multiple capacities.

1:43:42It was referenced earlier.

1:43:43But when I think about committing to that as an approach,

1:43:47to me, what that is ensuring is that you're applying

1:43:50that as a lens to your decision-making.

1:43:52It's a commitment to really prioritize the rights

1:43:56and dignity of people in this community

1:43:57and have that inform when you're making decisions.

1:44:00It doesn't change what you're responsible for

1:44:03or what's available to you as a mechanism or lever,

1:44:06but rather it ensures that when you are navigating

1:44:08decision-making processes,

1:44:09you have a framework to support you in making decisions.

1:44:13There's no, although this is legislated nationally

1:44:17and internationally, I think it's important to recognize

1:44:20that the federal government has made that commitment

1:44:22and they're still working on realizing what that looks like.

1:44:26They haven't, the national housing strategy

1:44:28have recognized in some areas it's been very impactful

1:44:30in other areas, there's opportunities to improve that.

1:44:32So I think it's also a commitment

1:44:34to kind of continuous improvement

1:44:35and being able to also realize what that looks like

1:44:38in a municipal context.

1:44:39There are some other municipalities

1:44:40you can look to for that, but to me,

1:44:43it's really about ensuring that you're thinking

1:44:44about those factors when you're making decisions

1:44:47that you're already faced with.

1:44:48Great, thanks.

1:44:49And just a second question through you, Marigathe.

1:44:52So we've had this conversation before.

1:44:54We tend to be very, very hyper-focused

1:44:56on the folks who are currently homeless.

1:44:59And we're sort of, we're a little bit glib

1:45:04when we're talking about, well,

1:45:05I know the municipalities got to fill these gaps.

1:45:08I'm concerned about folks who are one paycheck away

1:45:11from not making their rent.

1:45:12I'm concerned about folks for whom

1:45:14a significant property tax increase will, you know,

1:45:17make their, either their rental unit unaffordable

1:45:19because it'll be passed along

1:45:21or their property tax payments unaffordable.

1:45:24So I'm often thinking about all those folks

1:45:26who are just not homeless yet,

1:45:28but they are waiting for subsidized housing

1:45:32or they are making it, but just barely.

1:45:35Can you help me understand?

1:45:38I'm gonna ask you to do my job for me.

1:45:41Can you help me understand the precarity of that

1:45:44and what the, you know, in economics called elasticity?

1:45:48What is the capacity in the community to absorb

1:45:52the property tax increases that,

1:45:54so 2% that the county came to present with us?

1:45:58Potentially additional asks, right?

1:46:01How do you think counselors should approach that

1:46:04rather than have you make the decision for us?

1:46:06How do you think we need to be thinking about that

1:46:08in the upcoming budget?

1:46:10Because we want to say yes to everybody

1:46:11who comes to the podium, right?

1:46:13We want this awesome community.

1:46:15And at the end of the day, it is the taxpayer,

1:46:17the worst, you know, the municipal level,

1:46:20the worst possible level to make a transfer of wealth,

1:46:24which is what this is.

1:46:25So what lens do you want us to bring to this

1:46:27when we look at the budget next week?

1:46:30Thank you for that big question.

1:46:32And obviously I'm best positioned to speak

1:46:34to the experiences of people

1:46:35living with low incomes in particular.

1:46:38However, I know people who previously were middle income

1:46:41and comfortable are facing increasing pressures

1:46:43in our community.

1:46:44And I've heard from people in that situation,

1:46:47living pay tech to paycheck.

1:46:49And with housing costs and other pressures,

1:46:51it is pushing people where we're seeing an increasing divide

1:46:55between lower and upper income experiences.

1:46:59So I appreciate the fact that council considers that seriously

1:47:02when you're looking at budgetary constraints and pressures.

1:47:05I think when considering the importance,

1:47:08one of the things I say like a broken record is,

1:47:11it is critical that we need emergency needs.

1:47:14And we need to have the same sense of urgency

1:47:17for root cause solutions.

1:47:18I don't want to under appreciate the significance

1:47:22of the asks and pressures that are coming before you today.

1:47:25I think it's important to consider the balance

1:47:28to be considering what you are positioned to do

1:47:31in relationship to other levels of government

1:47:33and the context you're operating within.

1:47:34It does put you in unique pressures,

1:47:37which means considering those different factors.

1:47:40But I would say a balance considering

1:47:42where you can have the greatest impact.

1:47:44Staff are amazing at being able to draw attention

1:47:47to those pieces.

1:47:48But obviously it's no surprise to you that I would always say

1:47:51it's important to prioritize the greatest steps of need.

1:47:54We know that when we prioritize the greatest steps of need

1:47:56from both an immediate needs

1:47:58and a root cause solution oriented approach,

1:48:02that we not only have a beneficial impact

1:48:05to points said earlier, save lives.

1:48:07We are also having a broader impact

1:48:09for our broader community.

1:48:11When we lift people up who are facing

1:48:12some of the greatest marginalizations and pressures,

1:48:15it has a positive impact, not just on their wellbeing,

1:48:17but our community wellbeing overall

1:48:19or economic wellbeing and on our ability

1:48:22to be able to support one another.

1:48:24So I would just encourage you to consider those factors.

1:48:28Sorry for not a more clear direction,

1:48:30but those would be pieces that I would continue to advocate

1:48:32for in your decision-making process.

1:48:34I appreciate that, thanks.

1:48:36Councillor Pusatil and Councillor Chew.

1:48:39Thank you very much for the presentation, Dominica.

1:48:42And thank you also for articulating those levers.

1:48:45It's not only about providing housing

1:48:48and those other things, but I wanna,

1:48:50it's about the income for me.

1:48:51It's about adequate income.

1:48:53Can you talk a little bit about the advocacy

1:48:55that you've done collectively or provincially

1:48:57or nationally around the social safety net?

1:49:00And I'm not speaking about charity.

1:49:02I'm talking about OW and ODSP and so on

1:49:05to support the human right to an adequate standard of living

1:49:10because these are the two pieces in here.

1:49:14Can you speak a little bit to that?

1:49:16Yeah, thank you for that question.

1:49:18As many of you know, the poverty task force

1:49:20is a collaborative in our community

1:49:22that brings together lived experts, decision makers,

1:49:25community groups and agencies under a shared commitment

1:49:28to take action and advocate for system and policy change

1:49:31to address the root causes of poverty.

1:49:33We have extensive advocacy efforts that we undertake

1:49:37towards all different levels of government.

1:49:40But I will say that disproportionately,

1:49:43a lot of our focus around income issues

1:49:45has been on the provincial government in particular.

1:49:47We're part of a number of provincial networks.

1:49:50We work really closely with both provincial

1:49:52and national organizations advocating on these issues.

1:49:57So, and then we use that by bringing forward the voices

1:50:01of people experiencing these issues in our community

1:50:03to amplify calls for action on that level.

1:50:06I will say, as I know council has faced in some capacities,

1:50:10advocacy has needed to look different than it has in the past.

1:50:14There's been around opportunities for consultation,

1:50:17opportunities to be able to engage in those conversations.

1:50:20On social assistance in particular,

1:50:22we're fortunate to have really strong relationships

1:50:24with the County of Wellington and employment agencies locally

1:50:28and have been following some of the modernization efforts

1:50:30that have been underway and have been really amplifying

1:50:33that modernization improvements to support life stabilization

1:50:37won't be meaningful or impactful

1:50:39in the absence of increased rates or meaningfully investing

1:50:43in the supports that people need

1:50:45on both the health and housing standpoint.

1:50:48So, on that standpoint, any opportunities we have

1:50:50to advance advocacy on those fronts

1:50:52at different levels of government, we do.

1:50:55We assign on to a number of different provincial

1:50:57and national campaigns in that regard

1:50:59and amplify it at a local level.

1:51:01And any opportunities to meet with elected officials,

1:51:04we welcome and we are here to try and support you

1:51:07in any resourcing or support you need

1:51:09to also be amplifying those calls.

1:51:12Thank you.

1:51:14And Chu, please.

1:51:16Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor.

1:51:18Thank you for your delegation.

1:51:20I'm learning a lot about your group

1:51:24and I'm very impressed with the work that you guys have done

1:51:27with some of the current initiatives,

1:51:29including how you guys are tackling food security.

1:51:33I think you guys are in a very unique position

1:51:36because you guys are a coalition of local partners.

1:51:39I'm just curious to see how you guys go

1:51:42about information sharing and knowledge transfer

1:51:45with external partners that aren't within the city

1:51:49and county because I think they're a lot of excellent,

1:51:53they're a lot of excellent best practices

1:51:56that we can maybe use and apply.

1:51:58So I'm just curious, like how do you guys go

1:52:00about that process of disseminating information

1:52:03and bring that in when you guys meet as a group?

1:52:07Yeah, thank you for that question.

1:52:08Hopefully I understood it accurately.

1:52:11You can correct me if I didn't.

1:52:11So from a knowledge transfer, knowledge sharing component,

1:52:15we create a number of different resources.

1:52:16We recognize that people need to be engaged

1:52:18in different ways and we try to reflect that in our strategy

1:52:21and I often say we've got a lot of amazing

1:52:23and kind contributions to our work.

1:52:25We are a mighty team of two, staff in particular.

1:52:29So we really do leverage our networks, our connections,

1:52:32our broader partnerships to amplify those messages

1:52:34beyond the doors we're able to access or get through

1:52:38and we try to provide that support.

1:52:41On the flip side, one of our commitments

1:52:43is to be evidence informed.

1:52:45And that's evidence informed both from a standpoint

1:52:47of what we're hearing from folks experiencing the issues,

1:52:49but also looking to more formal research

1:52:52or best practices in other communities

1:52:54so that we can learn from that, help amplify those examples.

1:52:57The London work was just referenced earlier.

1:52:59It's a great example of kind of a collaborative approach

1:53:01to health and housing planning.

1:53:03So that's also something that we do

1:53:05and we're able to leverage a lot of that

1:53:07through broader networks at the provincial

1:53:09and federal level.

1:53:11Thank you and one quick follow up for me.

1:53:13You mentioned the London model

1:53:15as did our colleague from the chamber did.

1:53:18I was just wondering, I know your focus is really on,

1:53:22bring awareness towards rent, care to income,

1:53:25but I do see a lot of opportunity,

1:53:26especially with the groundswalling of conversation

1:53:29around housing throughout the province

1:53:31that we bring forward more formal education

1:53:36through our various meetings and discussions

1:53:39with different interest groups and development partners.

1:53:44I was wondering if there is appetite to even look

1:53:48at advocacy towards the market-based,

1:53:52I guess, affordable market-based component

1:53:58in our continuum.

1:54:00There's, I think, a lot of opportunities for education,

1:54:03for particularly small developers and local home owners

1:54:06on how they can individually take responsibility

1:54:09for looking at ways to retrofit their current footprint

1:54:16into something that could be attainable for folks

1:54:18on the left hand of the continuum.

1:54:20So I was wondering if there's appetite

1:54:22and if there's even opportunity that you see

1:54:25to collaborate with our folks at the chamber.

1:54:30Yeah, so I will say that I was fortunate,

1:54:32thanks to Shakiva and the chamber for their work

1:54:35to have an opportunity to meet with partners,

1:54:38especially for-profit developers,

1:54:40and had the opportunity to express to you what I did today,

1:54:43that I don't see that their best position

1:54:45to create the deeply affordable housing that we need,

1:54:47but there's huge opportunities for us to be partnering

1:54:50and to be leveraging.

1:54:51Some of the incredible work,

1:54:53the Kindle and Skylines work has been referenced tonight

1:54:56to build on those really incredible opportunities

1:54:58to continue partnership, connection,

1:55:00and to be leveraging strengths across the continuum

1:55:02among different development sectors.

1:55:05So definitely I would always welcome having conversations

1:55:08and discussions around that.

1:55:10At the same time, I'm considering what's going to be

1:55:14most impactful for folks living with low income,

1:55:16and for that reason, that's also one of the reasons

1:55:19why I really highlighted the importance of nonprofit,

1:55:21co-op, and public housing.

1:55:23And I think the for-profit sector can play a huge role

1:55:26in partnership in that, but also looking at

1:55:28what's our capacity around creating opportunity

1:55:31to respond to that need across the continuum.

1:55:36Thank you for all your work.

1:55:37Thanks.

1:55:39Okay, Councillor Prisatil, just wanna make sure you're okay?

1:55:43Yeah, okay, great.

1:55:44Okay, then we're good, and thank you to you, Dominica.

1:55:48Thank you.

1:55:48Thank you for the work that you do as well.

1:55:51James Smith, James is gonna be joining us by video,

1:55:54I believe.

1:55:57So James, it's Mayor Guthrie speaking here,

1:55:59just wondering if you can hear me and you've joined.

1:56:08Okay, I've been told from our clerks that you are

1:56:11in the meeting, and just to unmute,

1:56:14make sure you hit star six.

1:56:18Always on video only for the audio.

1:56:19Okay, so maybe if we could just turn on your video then.

1:56:31All right, James, if you can hear me,

1:56:32I'll just give you one more shot here.

1:56:34If you don't pop on the screen,

1:56:36and we're just gonna go to our next delegation,

1:56:38but we'll swing back to try to capture you,

1:56:40so not kicking you out here,

1:56:42we just gotta keep moving along.

1:56:44Okay, James, so if you can hear me, it's Mayor Guthrie,

1:56:47we're gonna move along,

1:56:47but our clerks will continue to try to help you

1:56:50jump in at another moment, okay?

1:56:53Mark, Mark Walton is here from our great hospital,

1:56:57and Mark, thank you for joining us,

1:56:59and the floor is yours once you start speaking,

1:57:02up to the five minute delegation, go right ahead.

1:57:07So, my name is Mark Walton,

1:57:08I'm the president and CEO of Guelph General Hospital,

1:57:11and it's been my pleasure to serve this community

1:57:13for the last six months.

1:57:15Also been a pleasure to be a member

1:57:17of the Guelph Wellington Ontario Health Team.

1:57:20I'll also say a pleasure to work along with CAO Stewart,

1:57:24city staff, Mayor Guthrie,

1:57:26as well as council on a variety of different issues.

1:57:29It is a pleasure to be here with you today.

1:57:31I wanna start by first extending my gratitude

1:57:34to the staff, the CAO, council,

1:57:38for the development of these recommendations.

1:57:42They've obviously been developed in consultation

1:57:44with the sector, and obviously aimed at addressing

1:57:48the housing, the homelessness, the human crisis

1:57:53that sits in front of us.

1:57:54And I hope that today, my being here,

1:57:57actually is a bit of a testament

1:57:58to a different way of thinking.

1:57:59Hospitals are not typically involved

1:58:02in housing or homeless issues.

1:58:04We require a different framing,

1:58:07we require a different paradigm to look at.

1:58:09And so hopefully what I'm going to do today

1:58:11is talk to you about what I see as a human crisis.

1:58:14And I say it intentionally,

1:58:16because it was a term that was recently used

1:58:18by a visitor to our city.

1:58:20I had the pleasure of hosting Dr. Krimavelgi,

1:58:22our province's chief nurse and assistant deputy minister

1:58:26with the Ministry of Health recently,

1:58:29following a tour of our hospital

1:58:31and a meeting with our nursing staff.

1:58:33I took Dr. Velgi for a walking tour

1:58:36of our downtown, and along with representatives

1:58:39of our OHT collective, Dr. Velgi,

1:58:42a clinical professional who's provided care

1:58:44across the globe in war ravaged third world nations,

1:58:48was moved emotionally by the desperation

1:58:50of the people that she saw on our local streets.

1:58:53I will note, she was equally inspired

1:58:55by the hard work of our health and social service agencies,

1:58:57such as our CHC, CMHA, and others.

1:59:01She's now working to give us focus

1:59:04with our affordable housing efforts, our proposal,

1:59:09to bring some relief with senior levels

1:59:11of the provincial government,

1:59:12because she believes in our community,

1:59:14she believes that our people are in danger,

1:59:16and she recognizes as I do that we have a crisis.

1:59:20Mr. Mayor and members of council,

1:59:23I've worked in the Ontario Health System

1:59:24for almost 35 years now, and I know crisis.

1:59:27For the last three years,

1:59:29I served as the senior vice president on Ontario Health

1:59:32to manage the province's COVID-19 pandemic response.

1:59:37When our long-term care homes were in peril,

1:59:39I was responsible for the deployment

1:59:40of staff into those homes.

1:59:42When we exhausted our ICU bed capacity in hospitals,

1:59:45I worked to coordinate the transfer of hundreds of Ontarians

1:59:48from their home hospitals across the province,

1:59:51in order to maintain a system that worked.

1:59:56Last year, when COVID and RSV converged

1:59:59into a single synchronous wave,

2:00:01I was responsible for transferring children

2:00:04across the province to ensure

2:00:06that safe pediatric care could be provided.

2:00:08And when Saskatchewan became overwhelmed

2:00:10and could no longer care for the residents,

2:00:12I helped to spearhead our provincial response

2:00:14and facilitate the transfers of Saskatchewan's people,

2:00:19sick and dying from their province to ours.

2:00:22I know what a crisis looks and feels like,

2:00:24and I feel that we do have a crisis,

2:00:27a human crisis in Guelph.

2:00:29And while I am absolutely supportive

2:00:31and thankful for the recommendations

2:00:33that have been put forward,

2:00:35I also believe that we need an immediate tactical response

2:00:39as well.

2:00:40And with that said,

2:00:42while I believe these are a step in the right direction,

2:00:44I think we lack a certain ruthless focus and urgency

2:00:47in some of the recommendations

2:00:49that will be required over the coming months.

2:00:52Now, I offer my observations not out of arrogance

2:00:55nor out of criticism,

2:00:56but rather as humble advice

2:00:58based on what I saw work and didn't work

2:01:00in the pandemic response over the last three years.

2:01:03The one thing I will say is the systems that worked

2:01:08in a crisis had a compelling ruthless belief

2:01:11in the universal human right to health,

2:01:14a collective unwavering commitment to efficient collaboration

2:01:18and a commitment to immediate action.

2:01:22We knew that those systems that had that would do well

2:01:26and people would be spared.

2:01:28And so today, what I would like to ask of you

2:01:30as we look at this,

2:01:32is to recognize that winter is coming

2:01:34and we will require a few things.

2:01:37First, I want to affirm what we've already heard,

2:01:40is that there is a need to believe that housing is health.

2:01:44This is something that has been articulated in London

2:01:47and across many systems.

2:01:49And we believe it is a universal right

2:01:51for each and every citizen.

2:01:53Driven by this principle,

2:01:54we need to organize effectively and efficiently

2:01:57to make decisions quickly.

2:01:59And our timelines must be hours and days,

2:02:01not weeks, months or quarters.

2:02:04And I would certainly encourage the city

2:02:06to prioritize the recommendations

2:02:09that are specifically around permanent supported housing.

2:02:12I believe these will not be an abandonment of our plans,

2:02:15but rather an expedition of them.

2:02:17Thank you.

2:02:18Thank you very much, Mark.

2:02:21Thank you very much for your delegation.

2:02:24Any, anything, okay, Councillor Klassen.

2:02:28And I saw Councillor Goller's hand go up too.

2:02:30Go ahead.

2:02:31Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor, to the delegate.

2:02:33Thank you very much for being here

2:02:35and thanks for the delegation.

2:02:37I did have a question about some of the language

2:02:39that you used around crisis and Guelph is in crisis.

2:02:42And when I hear that,

2:02:43like I mean, we have been talking about it a lot.

2:02:45It's really, it's bringing in our ears

2:02:48and I'm looking around

2:02:48and I think that my council colleagues agree with me.

2:02:52I just, I wanted you to speak a little bit more

2:02:55to that in Guelph,

2:02:56but then also perhaps the broader context

2:02:58across Canada as well.

2:02:59Of course, absolutely.

2:03:02Our problem, our crisis is not unique.

2:03:05Guelph has a crisis as do many other towns.

2:03:10I just had the ability to be in Waterloo yesterday

2:03:13and drove past a very similar scene

2:03:15that we would see on our streets here as well.

2:03:18It is multifactorial, economic, financial,

2:03:22social, the forces that created some of these challenges

2:03:26are significant.

2:03:27And so I would say that, yes, we have a crisis,

2:03:30a homelessness crisis, a housing crisis

2:03:32across our province and across our country.

2:03:34No question about it.

2:03:36However, as someone who gets to see the back end of this,

2:03:42what I can tell you is that we are seeing increased

2:03:45prevalence of emergency visits from people that are homeless,

2:03:49from people that are malnourished.

2:03:51And what I can also tell you is that with winter coming,

2:03:54we can expect to see more frostbite, more exposure,

2:03:57other issues related to homelessness.

2:04:01Our numbers are increasing.

2:04:03We are seeing people who were formerly in other tenements

2:04:05within the affordable housing,

2:04:0890 carden as an example,

2:04:10coming through our emergency department

2:04:12in greater numbers.

2:04:13So we know that on the back end,

2:04:16that we are gonna see more sick people.

2:04:18And of course, from my perspective is,

2:04:20how does we get ahead of that?

2:04:21How do we get upstream to that?

2:04:23I will also say that just given my experience

2:04:25in the pandemic, organizations, groups,

2:04:29collectives that move quickly and move fast,

2:04:32often have the advantage of trying to get upstream faster

2:04:35and better than others.

2:04:36My fear is if we wait till Q1 as an example,

2:04:39to hold a summit,

2:04:41we'll already halfway through the winter.

2:04:43And to me, that's a challenge.

2:04:48Thank you.

2:04:49A goller than a roark, please.

2:04:54Thank you for your presentation, Mr. Walton.

2:04:58I wanted to ask, just to be clear about what you're asking,

2:05:03because none of the 17 recommendations

2:05:05actually have us move forward

2:05:07with more permanent supportive housing.

2:05:09So are you suggesting that we are missing action here

2:05:12and that we should enact one more,

2:05:15more than today that has more permanent housing

2:05:19or shelter built before winter?

2:05:21Is that?

2:05:23No, I'm not suggesting that I would see us move forward

2:05:27for more permanent housing,

2:05:28but rather support for the existing permanent housing

2:05:31that we have built,

2:05:33but do not have operating dollars to support.

2:05:36It's very important to highlight

2:05:38that simply creating four walls in a room

2:05:42will only take us so far.

2:05:44There are a variety of supports that need to be around people,

2:05:46not only to ensure that they get into that housing,

2:05:49but also stand that housing in a productive

2:05:51and meaningful way.

2:05:53And as such, all of us collectively,

2:05:56as health service providers, community providers,

2:05:59local government, et cetera,

2:06:01really do need to move quickly

2:06:02to make sure that we get those operational dollars in place.

2:06:06I would also suggest, however,

2:06:08that some of our conventional notions,

2:06:10and this was referenced by Ms. Fishburne earlier

2:06:13in her discussion about how these get funded,

2:06:16where they get funded, and through whom the money flows,

2:06:20really needs to be challenged,

2:06:21because I can liken this only to one other thing

2:06:25that I've dealt with over the past few years,

2:06:27and this had to do with the international farm workers

2:06:29that were down in Windsor Essex.

2:06:31They had the opportunity to work

2:06:34through the pandemic response for them.

2:06:36This was a group that had multiple agencies,

2:06:39multiple level of government, federal,

2:06:41provincial, municipal,

2:06:43all involved in some way, shape, or form

2:06:45in their management and care.

2:06:47And when COVID hit,

2:06:50it was very difficult to discern who was in charge

2:06:53and who was actually gonna take accountability

2:06:54for solving this problem.

2:06:56I see a lot of parallels in what we're talking about today

2:06:59because there's a multiplicity of factors

2:07:01and other things contributing to this,

2:07:03multiple layers of government, multiple agencies, et cetera.

2:07:07And for me, it's not necessarily about more,

2:07:10but it is about ensuring that we have the appropriate funding

2:07:13and place to care for these humans,

2:07:15our co-residents, our co-citizens,

2:07:18and to make sure that we're advocating

2:07:20at all levels effectively from one voice.

2:07:22Team Guelph is how I would describe it.

2:07:24We need to all be speaking together.

2:07:27Thank you for that.

2:07:28Thank you.

2:07:31Oh, Rourke, then boost until.

2:07:34Thank you, Marga, three.

2:07:37Through you to the hospital CEO's name I'm blanking.

2:07:42Mr. Mark Walton, Mark is perfect.

2:07:44I'm thinking Walker, you know that happens like,

2:07:46okay, sorry about that.

2:07:50I'm thinking that in the examples you gave about COVID

2:07:54and mobilizing people across the province,

2:07:57and thank you for that.

2:07:59You had the authority to do that

2:08:01and the province had the jurisdiction to do that.

2:08:05So with this same ask, I'm gonna ask you again,

2:08:08as I've asked other people,

2:08:09have you made the same ask to the county

2:08:13as our services provider?

2:08:15Yes, to be blunt.

2:08:18So again, having had them,

2:08:19I was on the delegation down to London as an example

2:08:23and spoke extensively with some of the county staff

2:08:25that were there.

2:08:27And interestingly, sorry, through the mayor to you,

2:08:30counselor, in some cases,

2:08:33we didn't actually have the authority

2:08:36under the pandemic challenges that we had.

2:08:39In fact, there was a point in time

2:08:41when I made a series of asks through the provincial government

2:08:45and through some of the agencies

2:08:46who might normally typically deal with this.

2:08:48And I got a call from my boss at the time,

2:08:50Matt Anderson, it was a very somber call

2:08:53because he called me and he said, no help is coming.

2:08:56And I said, what do I do with that?

2:08:58He said, you need to act with commission.

2:09:02He said, do what you believe is right.

2:09:04Do what you believe will serve these people

2:09:06in the best way possible and just make things happen.

2:09:09And so we did.

2:09:10And so one of the things I would take away

2:09:13from that particular lesson was at some point in time,

2:09:16regardless of the swim lane,

2:09:17regardless of the accountability,

2:09:20someone needs to step up and take action.

2:09:22And I hope my being here today is a little bit atypical

2:09:26and perhaps a bit of a symbol of our desire collectively

2:09:30to take action together.

2:09:31My colleagues that sit as part of the OHT,

2:09:34as part of the health and social system,

2:09:37we believe that we want to take action with you.

2:09:40And I say this in partnership with the county

2:09:45and with the city.

2:09:46This is not a criticism.

2:09:47This is simply an offer that we wish to work with you

2:09:50and we need leadership and we're all willing

2:09:53to step up and provide that.

2:09:55So through you, Mayor Guthrie, Mr. Walton.

2:09:57So in that same vein, you're talking about housing as health

2:10:03and it's a human right to health 100%.

2:10:05And you and I had a chat about Dr. Andrew Boussari

2:10:08who presented at AMO in London.

2:10:11So I'm convinced.

2:10:12So I want to ask you for that immediate tactical solution.

2:10:17Do you know where Ontario Health is right now

2:10:19and where the Ministry of Health is

2:10:22and how, where are they?

2:10:24What will dislodge something there

2:10:27in terms of helping all Ontarians?

2:10:30In this case, those in Guelph.

2:10:31Well, I would agree.

2:10:32So you asked through the mayor to you, Councillor O'Rourke,

2:10:36you asked me if I'd had the conversation with the county

2:10:39and the answer is yes.

2:10:41I would say we're equally applying pressure

2:10:43on Ontario Health West, Ontario Health,

2:10:47as well as the provincial government as well.

2:10:49And in fact, some of my OHT colleagues and I

2:10:52will be approaching the Deputy Minister next week,

2:10:56the Associate Deputy Minister the week following

2:10:59with this specific ask.

2:11:00So I would say we are trying to lever everything we've got

2:11:05across all levels of government.

2:11:07And even with our local MP, Mr. Longfield,

2:11:10had a discussion with him about how we might be able

2:11:12to leverage some of the federal support as well.

2:11:15So I would just suggest to you, there's no one solution.

2:11:18We're trying every venue, trying every lever,

2:11:21but it is really about us having a collective unified voice

2:11:24around this, not pointing fingers,

2:11:25but rather saying how do we do this together?

2:11:27Great.

2:11:28I'll ask question, Marga, through you to Mr. Walton.

2:11:33University Health Network recently announced, right?

2:11:36We talked about this too.

2:11:36University Health Network recently announced

2:11:38they will be providing some permanent supportive housing,

2:11:41or at least some supportive housing.

2:11:43And the city of Portland has done a similar thing.

2:11:45So it stems from the emergency room

2:11:49seeing people who have an amputation

2:11:52and have to go back and live in a tent

2:11:54and that wound gets infected and then they're just back.

2:11:57So Portland said, this is ridiculous.

2:11:59We will have some housing, I'm guessing not at the hospital,

2:12:03but that we will have some housing

2:12:04where the doctors can do rounds.

2:12:06And really it is that that ability to rest and recuperate

2:12:10is part of the healthcare system.

2:12:12So either in the medium term or the longer term

2:12:16as the hospital plans a new location,

2:12:20which is eagerly awaited,

2:12:23what's the hospitals and the group thinking about the hospital?

2:12:26What's your thinking around that?

2:12:28Because we're not going to eradicate this issue, right?

2:12:31So is there a housing component

2:12:34to the new hospital conversation?

2:12:36So through the mayor to you, Councillor O'Rourke,

2:12:40we are very early stages in our discussions

2:12:42around the capital plan for the new hospital.

2:12:46When we first developed the proposal,

2:12:49the issue as it currently stands was not on our radar.

2:12:53And what I will say is,

2:12:55luckily there are multiple stages of planning

2:12:57that go along with this.

2:12:59And we'd be more than open to have a discussion

2:13:02about what our role is as an acute care provider

2:13:06in helping to satisfy or alleviate some of the pressures

2:13:09on the housing system.

2:13:11We'll say UHN is a much larger, much more complex organization

2:13:18with resources that many hospitals can only dream of.

2:13:22Kevin Smith is also a bit of a luminary

2:13:24and a shaker and a mover when it comes to achieving

2:13:29some of these transformational type initiatives.

2:13:31He's brilliant.

2:13:33I think we have an opportunity to take a look

2:13:36at what they learn from this and how we can apply it.

2:13:38If we see some lessons on how we can best serve

2:13:41that population through the hospital,

2:13:43I'm very open to it.

2:13:44Similarly though, I'd say there are some real opportunities

2:13:47through the hub model that we've seen established in London,

2:13:50through the alternative destination model

2:13:52that Ms. Fishburne was speaking to earlier.

2:13:55And we are in active conversations amongst ourselves

2:13:58as to how we can make that work as a collective as well.

2:14:00So I'd say that as a model we would absolutely consider,

2:14:03but there are many other things

2:14:04that we're looking at at the same time,

2:14:06but very open to learning more from UHN

2:14:08and others that are trying this.

2:14:12Pusatil then, OLD.

2:14:14Thank you, Councillor O'Rourke.

2:14:16Ask my questions.

2:14:18Thank you, OLD please.

2:14:20Thank you, surprisingly, Councillor O'Rourke asked a lot

2:14:23of my questions as well,

2:14:24but thank you very much, Mr. Walton for coming.

2:14:27There are a couple of questions that I have.

2:14:30Given the current situation we find ourselves in,

2:14:34the words tactical and ruthless are loaded terms.

2:14:39Can we please highlight what those mean?

2:14:41Because hopefully we're not in a war zone.

2:14:45No, no, but I do think we are at risk of losing lives.

2:14:49And so I choose those terms very, very carefully

2:14:52and specifically, I've often used them

2:14:55in the context of my own organization.

2:14:57I will tell you that I have a ruthless commitment

2:15:00to quality in my organization,

2:15:02which means it's unrelenting, unforgiving

2:15:05when it comes to that, also to compassion,

2:15:08somewhat anoxymoron when used in the same sentence.

2:15:11But I do believe that we need to be ruthless

2:15:14in our commitment to driving forward on a tactical plan.

2:15:17And I'll explain what I mean by that.

2:15:20When I talk about a tactical plan,

2:15:22when it came down to getting things done

2:15:24during the pandemic, we would often invoke

2:15:27and did invoke for a period of time

2:15:29an incident management structure.

2:15:31That incident management structure and IMS structure

2:15:34is really focused on making sure

2:15:37that we get routinized regular status reports

2:15:40on what's going on out there

2:15:42and an ability to quickly direct resources

2:15:45to where they are needed, not by committee,

2:15:48but certainly much more through a command

2:15:50and control style of direction.

2:15:53And the reason about that is,

2:15:54is that it simplifies decision making,

2:15:57but also allows for faster decision making

2:16:01in issues where life and death or harm are present.

2:16:05COVID was a great example of that.

2:16:07And I would argue that we successfully utilized

2:16:11an IMS framework in order to deploy people

2:16:15into long-term care homes,

2:16:17to transfer patients across our province

2:16:20or between provinces,

2:16:22and to ensure that safer, better care was provided.

2:16:26Sometimes that means we don't always arrive

2:16:28at things by consensus,

2:16:30but if we agree on the basic principles

2:16:32and the outcomes that we're trying to achieve,

2:16:34which is to alleviate human suffering

2:16:36and to ensure that harm does not come to our citizens,

2:16:41we can often get to the same place through that structure.

2:16:44So I offer it only as one option, counselor,

2:16:48that an IMS structure in a crisis

2:16:51can often be very effective

2:16:53to help direct resources where needed.

2:16:56It's also a great conduit through which communication

2:16:58can occur in a very seamless,

2:17:00single point of contact method as well.

2:17:04Just following up on your example

2:17:06and the parallels, perhaps not,

2:17:09you mentioned the transferring of patients

2:17:11and I completely understand that

2:17:12within the context of COVID.

2:17:14Just to clarify, you're not suggesting

2:17:18the transfer of the under housed

2:17:20or the homeless to other jurisdictions.

2:17:22Yes, and I'll be very clear on that point.

2:17:24I am not suggesting that in any way, shape, or form.

2:17:27These are residents that require our care.

2:17:30And so my belief is we have a commitment

2:17:32and an obligation, moral imperative,

2:17:34to ensure that they're safe.

2:17:36So I'm not suggesting that at least.

2:17:37Last question, it's on a completely different note.

2:17:40You'd made mention of support for operating funds

2:17:42and ensuring the funding is in place.

2:17:45Two things, it strikes me that

2:17:47there's a provincial obligation there as well.

2:17:50And what I need to know in really solid dollars and cents

2:17:54terms, what are we talking about in terms of money?

2:17:59I'm gonna have to defer to some of my colleagues

2:18:01who are deeply embedded in this.

2:18:03And I'm not sure if I can yield the floor

2:18:05to one of those colleagues, Mayor,

2:18:07with respect to answering this question.

2:18:09I can, however, as an example, suggest that

2:18:13for the purposes of about a hundred units,

2:18:16supported permanent housing units that will be available to us,

2:18:20it's an ask in the order of, I believe,

2:18:22two to three million, correct?

2:18:25Three million to support that in terms of the operating dollars

2:18:28in order to do that.

2:18:29So that is something.

2:18:31And going back to Councillor Oroch's previous question,

2:18:34that we are advocating working with OH West,

2:18:39the provincial governments, the ADM levels,

2:18:41and even up to the Minister's Office

2:18:43to try and get some attention on that.

2:18:45Just a quick follow up to that,

2:18:46and then thank you very much, by the way.

2:18:48That request for those operating dollars,

2:18:51is that a consequence of them not having yet been put in place

2:18:55by the provincial government?

2:18:58Can you ask that in a different way, Councillor?

2:19:01You said there's an immediate need for funding to be in place.

2:19:04Is that because the provincial government

2:19:06has not yet been forthcoming?

2:19:08We do not have a commitment from the provincial government

2:19:11at this point in time for those dollars

2:19:13to operate those units.

2:19:15Thank you very much.

2:19:18Great, thank you very much.

2:19:19Thank you very much, Mark.

2:19:20Appreciate seeing you here today and your delegation.

2:19:21Thank you.

2:19:22Thank you.

2:19:24James Smith, I'm going to come back to you.

2:19:27I believe you're going to join us by video,

2:19:29and oh, just over the phone?

2:19:31Okay.

2:19:32So James, it's Mayor Guthrie.

2:19:34Can you hear me okay?

2:19:41Yeah, and James, if you can hear me,

2:19:43you just got to hit star and then six on your phone.

2:19:50How does that sound?

2:19:51That's great, James.

2:19:52We can hear you now.

2:19:53Thank you very much for joining us.

2:19:55And you have up to five minutes.

2:19:57You have up to five minutes, so I'll let you go ahead.

2:20:01Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor.

2:20:03And as you said, my name is James Smith.

2:20:06I'm representing myself as a citizen.

2:20:09However, I do have some experience

2:20:12in the not-for-profit and social housing network

2:20:15through my work at Allen and Lee Architects in Toronto,

2:20:20where I manage the small retail projects

2:20:24as well as other things.

2:20:25And early in the 2000s, I worked for

2:20:32Theater K Guy Associates in Aspen, Colorado,

2:20:38on a number of social housing projects.

2:20:40So that's what I bring to the table.

2:20:43And I just wanted to emphasize a number of things

2:20:48that have been said by previous presenters,

2:20:51and that is great work on putting this together.

2:20:55It's very necessary, and I appreciate both staff

2:20:59and yourselves in doing so.

2:21:03I just wanted to go through a couple of the items

2:21:05that I think I maybe not take an issue with

2:21:10but would like a little more clarification of.

2:21:13Number three is the symposium.

2:21:15I think that's a great idea.

2:21:17I would urge you that citizen participation be part of that,

2:21:21and I'll put it my hand that I'd be willing

2:21:25to participate in something like that.

2:21:28Item number five, I think that's a good idea.

2:21:32However, as one of the proponents

2:21:35of the National Urban Park Initiative

2:21:40here in the City of Guilf,

2:21:41and we're attempting to get the attention

2:21:44of the Ontario government,

2:21:45as well as having the federal government participate

2:21:50in the former OR property,

2:21:53I think that it would be positive if,

2:21:57in your letter to the provincial government,

2:21:59that you also mentioned that the former OR property

2:22:04not be included.

2:22:06Item number nine, I can't stress the idea

2:22:11of a mix of housing types more.

2:22:16We worked on both the library

2:22:19and the Spot Urban Initiative in the Malvern area

2:22:25of the City of Toronto,

2:22:26and that's a poster child for not mixing housing types.

2:22:32And I think that really needs to be emphasized a lot

2:22:38that a mix of housing type has to be,

2:22:42you helped solve this.

2:22:45Number 12, I think is a little bit contentious,

2:22:49and I agree with four units on a lot,

2:22:53but there are, I think, to be qualifications,

2:22:57and perhaps you look at the City of London's model

2:23:01where this kind of zoning is done by ward,

2:23:04rather than as of right.

2:23:07And I guess, number 17,

2:23:13this is sort of an elephant in the broom,

2:23:16and I think there's a lot that can be done on this file.

2:23:20For example, I can give you several examples

2:23:25that I'm familiar with just driving around the City,

2:23:28where demolition permits have gone ahead

2:23:31for existing structures that could have been either used

2:23:37as housing stock, well, could have been used as housing stock,

2:23:41but the demolition permits were issued

2:23:43and no building permit was attached to that.

2:23:48I'd suggest respectfully that you may consider

2:23:53making a demolition permit

2:23:56incumbent on having a follow-up of building permit

2:24:00within a certain amount of time.

2:24:02And lastly, I think that there's some merit in working,

2:24:09not just with the county, but with other cities

2:24:15in the province, either directly city to city,

2:24:20peer to peer, where good ideas

2:24:23that may not be allowed by the Planning Act

2:24:26can be put forward.

2:24:28I think it's somewhat embarrassing

2:24:31that the United States, in a lot of cities,

2:24:3612% of affordability is required of all new building.

2:24:42And we don't have anything similar to that

2:24:45in the province of Ontario, as far as I know,

2:24:47and I'm not sure if it's even allowed by the Planning Act.

2:24:51That's something that I think should be,

2:24:55should be something that embarrasses us

2:24:57and we need to take action on that.

2:24:59And lastly, I'll just add one thing,

2:25:01and that is I think we should consider, as of right,

2:25:06residential on commercial property.

2:25:08Thanks for your time.

2:25:11Well, thank you, James, for joining us.

2:25:13And let me just see if there's a follow-up question for you.

2:25:17And there is not.

2:25:19So thank you again for your time.

2:25:21You're very welcome.

2:25:22Appreciate the opportunity.

2:25:25And thank you.

2:25:27And I've been told that Dave,

2:25:29who was listed, is not available.

2:25:31So that's it for our delegations

2:25:35and Council is aware of the correspondence

2:25:38that was sent in officially attached to the public record,

2:25:44but I do want to recognize,

2:25:45and I think if everyone's checked their emails,

2:25:49there's been a couple of additional kind of direct emails

2:25:52to us from Stepping Stone as an example and others.

2:25:55And I'm seeing a lot of heads nod here.

2:25:57So just make sure you've captured that as well

2:26:00in regards to this issue.

2:26:02We are, I think we deserve a five minute break.

2:26:08Yes, I'm seeing also some heads nod.

2:26:11I'm, because I think we got 17 motions in front of us here.

2:26:17You know what I might do,

2:26:17just as a thinking exercise before we take the break,

2:26:23I may try to move us through them very methodically,

2:26:26sort of like what I've done at budget times before.

2:26:28So just leave it with me and I'll speak to staff

2:26:31and I might help us just try to expedite

2:26:33how we get through all of them in a good way

2:26:38that doesn't keep us here forever.

2:26:41And maybe just highlight the ones that need to be pulled

2:26:44and discussed and whatnot.

2:26:45So with that, why don't we take a 10 minute break?

2:26:49Okay, so five, no, it's not five.

2:26:53It's three o'clock, feels like it's five, no, it's kidding.

2:26:56It's three o'clock, let's come back here at three 10,

2:26:58nine minute break, okay, three 10.

2:26:59And then we'll get going on the discussion on the motions.

2:27:02Okay, thank you so much, three 10 it is.

2:38:05All right everyone, this is your 30 second warning.

2:38:36All right, okay, I'll call the meeting back

2:38:43to order everybody here.

2:38:45Thank you, that was a good break.

2:38:48Okay, I think what I'm gonna do is I'm gonna treat

2:38:54these 17 almost like I go through a regular agenda consent.

2:39:01I'm gonna go, does anyone have an issue with one, with two?

2:39:04And I'm gonna find out which ones we wanna actually discuss.

2:39:07And then that kinda narrows it down, okay?

2:39:10So, oh, sure, okay, we can do that, that's fair, that's fair.

2:39:20Yeah, I guess we could do questions to staff.

2:39:26I don't wanna eliminate ones that you then can't ask

2:39:29questions to, even though they might be moved

2:39:31with no amendments, so questions is probably wise.

2:39:35So, what I'll do is normally I would ask for it to be,

2:39:38the whole thing would be moved and seconded,

2:39:39but I'm gonna pause that this time, okay?

2:39:42Well, just because I might do that kinda consent idea.

2:39:45So, let's go to questions.

2:39:47And then once I know questions are done,

2:39:49then we'll move to that idea just to help facilitate

2:39:52going through every single one, okay?

2:39:56Okay, Councillor Goller, Councillor Allt and Downer.

2:40:02I'll just stick with you three for now.

2:40:05Just let me get my pen ready to put more down.

2:40:08And if I could just ask, because with, you know,

2:40:11please get to your questions, okay?

2:40:14Because there's 13 of us and lots of stuff

2:40:19to discuss, but we just wanna get through it

2:40:22as best as we can.

2:40:23So please, as the Chair, I'm just asking us to be focused,

2:40:26get right to your questions, please, thank you.

2:40:29And thank you for your worship.

2:40:31I have questions about numbers two, eight and 12.

2:40:34So, maybe we're doing questions

2:40:37about everything at this point.

2:40:41Well, yes, about anything and everything.

2:40:43But I mean, that's great.

2:40:44If everybody starts with, I have a question on number two,

2:40:47whatever, it just helps all of us align

2:40:50with exactly what you're focused on.

2:40:51So go ahead, you have a question on number two, go ahead.

2:40:54Thank you, I'm through your worship to staff.

2:40:58I'm really happy to see recommendation to be here,

2:41:03directing the mayor and the CEO to work with the county

2:41:07on a review of governance.

2:41:08This was one of the main recommendations coming out

2:41:11of the September 12th report by my collective results.

2:41:15If I could hear from perhaps from the worship,

2:41:19yourself, the mayor and Scott Stewart as to what it is

2:41:24that you would be speaking to or going to.

2:41:26And from my perspective, something that I,

2:41:30my challenge here, what I see that is missing in governance

2:41:34is the ability to ask questions

2:41:37as we do of our city departments.

2:41:40We have questions, we have questions from constituents

2:41:43and that accountability, I think is missing.

2:41:46I know that these things go to the social services committee

2:41:50at Wellington County, but having that being an external body,

2:41:55then that creates sort of a challenge here.

2:41:58So before I tell you what I would like to see,

2:42:01what my challenges are, I wanna know what it is

2:42:05that you would be bringing forward

2:42:07in your understanding from recommendation number two.

2:42:12So through you, Mr. Mayor, I'll begin.

2:42:14And I think what you'll get is what you're gonna see

2:42:17in this recommendation is the political side

2:42:19and the administrative side of the organization,

2:42:22aligned for a good discussion with both

2:42:25Warden Lennox and CEO, Wilson.

2:42:28And I think we'll focus in on a little bit

2:42:31of what you've heard today.

2:42:32There's been lots of threads, of course,

2:42:34but a little bit of the threat has been around the lanes,

2:42:38the roles, responsibilities, how do you get differently engaged?

2:42:44There isn't a place here at this council

2:42:46where there's a social services committee discussion

2:42:48for the most part.

2:42:49It meanders in, usually it's around an item.

2:42:54So like today, we've brought something specific forward

2:42:57as a special council meeting,

2:42:58or sometimes it pops up in a particular committee

2:43:01of the whole meeting, but it's not structured

2:43:03and organized on a regular basis

2:43:05where you're asking for feedback, given feedback.

2:43:08So we just wanna have a little discussion.

2:43:09Is there another way potentially?

2:43:11Potentially, no, because the county of Wellington

2:43:15have a lot to manage in terms of,

2:43:17they do have a board of governors called County Council.

2:43:20And is there an opportunity to evolve,

2:43:23perhaps some of you participated, if there's that desire,

2:43:26at a social services meeting?

2:43:29And so we've come a long ways from,

2:43:32some of you will recall there was no membership there,

2:43:35now Mayor Guthrie participates.

2:43:37And I think some of you attend from time to time

2:43:39as a special guest, but it's not organized

2:43:42and it's not structured.

2:43:43So what if it was organized and what if it was structured?

2:43:46And then you move into, well, is it just a sit and listen,

2:43:50to give feedback?

2:43:51Can you put motions at play?

2:43:52And again, that needs a little bit of thought

2:43:54if that's where we're going.

2:43:56And perhaps that is a way to sort of gain some traction

2:44:00so that there's a greater understanding

2:44:02so that we don't always have to sort of get into

2:44:05the slides that you've seen today

2:44:06with the continuum on the left side and the right side.

2:44:10That should always be very clear to you.

2:44:12And then you also pay a large portion of a bill

2:44:16that comes your way.

2:44:18And you should look for the experts that are there

2:44:21to give you advice on why is it coming to City Council?

2:44:26The CMSM is a great example of

2:44:28that's where the expertise resides.

2:44:31And you, as you do here sitting as a City Council,

2:44:34you ask lots of questions of your staff experts.

2:44:37That's a great opportunity to interact.

2:44:40And then what we've done is we've,

2:44:42so this is too long-winded,

2:44:43and I'm not gonna do this for the whole afternoon,

2:44:45but what we've done is this has become a bit

2:44:47of a budget exercise around here.

2:44:50And it's not that.

2:44:52It is, but it isn't.

2:44:53So I think there's an opportunity to further engage

2:44:56with the County and we'll see where that goes.

2:44:59And there has to be a willingness to that.

2:45:00And I don't think you'll see an unwillingness to it,

2:45:03but it has to be organized in a way.

2:45:05So what does that mean?

2:45:06Especially once you move into votes and things like that,

2:45:10because then that creates some logistics

2:45:12that need to be worked out with some of the legal folks

2:45:15and the clerks of the world.

2:45:17But I'm sure we're up for that.

2:45:18If we're getting to that level of detail,

2:45:20we're probably in the good news.

2:45:22And I would maybe leave Mayor Guthrie

2:45:25if you want to respond sort of on your side

2:45:27in the interaction with the political folks.

2:45:32Thank you.

2:45:32To you, Councillor Goller and to my colleagues.

2:45:36So I would say ditto to everything

2:45:37that the CAO has just said.

2:45:40But I think the formality of this motion being

2:45:46my hope unanimously voted on by this council

2:45:49already starts a good conversation and a good position

2:45:53for the next step and the next step and the next step.

2:45:57And I think there are some things,

2:46:01I want to give credit, we're credits too here.

2:46:03Talk to a few councillors, Councillor Pusatillo

2:46:05as an example as well,

2:46:07whether there's some stuff that we can do in our own house

2:46:10or our own backyard, whether that be operationally

2:46:13or logistically on how things are brought forward in advance

2:46:18or after things are done at the county with my position there,

2:46:24which I'm always up for hearing about those ideas.

2:46:29But I think that there's also on the governance side

2:46:31because it speaks to that directly

2:46:33in recommendation number two,

2:46:35where what can we agree upon from both sides

2:46:40in a partnership to see how those things can be strengthened?

2:46:44And I would suggest that if you yourself,

2:46:46Councillor Goller has ideas or any of my colleagues have ideas

2:46:51that they do flow through myself and copied to the CAO

2:46:55prior to maybe that initial meeting happening

2:46:58if this motion passes.

2:47:00So everything has sort of be laid on the table.

2:47:03And you have a commitment from me

2:47:06that I will certainly make sure that you are in the know,

2:47:09every step of the way as this happens.

2:47:13And then I think there's some more formalities around reporting,

2:47:17around some of the content that's embedded

2:47:19in this motion as well.

2:47:22But really I come back to my first point to everybody here

2:47:25and not just to you, Councillor Goller.

2:47:27This is a good first step.

2:47:29If we can get this solidified,

2:47:31it just starts that conversation.

2:47:33And then as the conversation continues,

2:47:35I will continue to keep everyone in the loop

2:47:38and make sure that we change things here

2:47:41and maybe there'll be some changes there.

2:47:43And it will only be to the benefit

2:47:45of the entire people that we serve.

2:47:47So yeah, I don't know if there's anything more I can say that

2:47:51other than to repeat that if you or anybody else has

2:47:54some sort of burning issues

2:47:56that you would like to see addressed in the conversations

2:47:59or some answers or on clarity of some of the things

2:48:03that may already be being done,

2:48:05but maybe just as being reported back well enough

2:48:09that you just let me and the CAO know.

2:48:12And then we can try to formalize that a little bit more

2:48:14as we come back each time, okay?

2:48:16I'll go back to you, Councillor Goller.

2:48:18You have the floor.

2:48:19Thank you.

2:48:20Thank you, your worship.

2:48:21And to this point, I will be following up with yourself

2:48:24and our CAO to provide some feedback.

2:48:27But at a high level, it is very much the comment

2:48:30that I heard from Ms. Shaiyani from the Chamber of Commerce.

2:48:34You are my counselor.

2:48:35I'm paying the City of Guelph my property tax dollars.

2:48:39And but there's this other body that is managing

2:48:43a critical part of city infrastructure

2:48:48or social service infrastructure.

2:48:51And there's a disconnect between what the City of Guelph

2:48:55can do because oftentimes I will ask questions over staff

2:48:59and they say, well, we don't have the expertise.

2:49:01So I think I look forward to opportunities to improve that

2:49:06so that we can hear from the county more often.

2:49:09We can get reporting more often updates

2:49:11and provide input to the county on those plans,

2:49:14on their homelessness plan, on the activities.

2:49:17We heard earlier in the year a letter

2:49:20from the Chamber of Commerce and other groups

2:49:22calling on the city to put a position in place,

2:49:26a commission in charge of housing homelessness.

2:49:28And I think that if we get this governance right,

2:49:32then we can work with the county to have that position.

2:49:36It's likely someone that already exists at the county

2:49:39that they can have more responses to the city,

2:49:43both to present to Guelph City Council.

2:49:45And so that there is more of a City of Guelph Council voice

2:49:48present at the Social Services Committee of Wellington County.

2:49:54So I'll leave that there and I'll go into my next question.

2:49:56Just before you do, Councillor, if you don't mind,

2:49:59and Scott or CEO, if you don't mind, Council,

2:50:01just let me jump in one extra little thing just to respond to.

2:50:04Like, what's nice about this motion,

2:50:06if I could just give a commentary on it,

2:50:08is that it's in the public and the county knows

2:50:12and the county is aware of it and is actually,

2:50:15they're fine with it too.

2:50:17I just want to make that very, very clear that it's nice

2:50:19that this is in the public, that they're aware of it,

2:50:23everything's fine here, it's great to have this,

2:50:26but it solidifies it through a Council motion of direction

2:50:29that gives some oomph to it,

2:50:31even though the conversations happen all the time

2:50:34and we can pick up the phone

2:50:36or meet with each other at any time,

2:50:38but this just solidifies it really well

2:50:41at a more of a governance level

2:50:42that Council is giving that direction.

2:50:44But so just, it's important to just note

2:50:47that the county is very fully aware of this in advance

2:50:50and is ready for the conversations as well,

2:50:52just very equally, so that's a good sign.

2:50:57This just formalizes it, that's all.

2:50:58Okay, Councillor Gull, sorry about that,

2:51:00thanks for letting me jump in, go ahead.

2:51:01No, thank you, thank you, Your Worship.

2:51:04Regarding recommendation number eight,

2:51:07that staff be directed to seek feedback from the DGBA,

2:51:10local agencies for a 12-hour service,

2:51:15seven-day a week daytime shelter space

2:51:17in the downtown secondary planning area.

2:51:20I wanted to ask Bruce staff,

2:51:24when we talk about seeking feedback from the DGBA,

2:51:27local downtown businesses,

2:51:29myself, I'm one of the Councilors that sits on the DGBA

2:51:32and also my ward includes the downtown.

2:51:35So I hear from both our business community

2:51:40in the downtown and also residents

2:51:43that live in and around the downtown

2:51:45and that go to the downtown,

2:51:47about the significant impact that having a population

2:51:52that is experiencing homelessness,

2:51:54mental health issues crisis is having on the downtown.

2:51:57So I wanted to just understand from staff perspective,

2:52:01when you say seek feedback,

2:52:03what level of input will that be from the DGBA?

2:52:06So if they were to say, well, this is great,

2:52:08but we would not like to see anything on Wyndham

2:52:11or Quebec street or at what level would their input be taken

2:52:17through the wording of this decision?

2:52:22Through the Merida Councillor Goller,

2:52:23I think that's a little bit of a difficult question

2:52:25to answer until we hear the feedback

2:52:27from all the stakeholders.

2:52:28As you've indicated,

2:52:31we don't have social services experts on staff here

2:52:34and I am certainly not one.

2:52:35And so there's a number of stakeholders here in the room

2:52:38that I know we are going to need to consult with

2:52:40to get their feedback and opinion.

2:52:43The DGBA is obviously one of those key stakeholders,

2:52:46but conversely, I would imagine that we're going to hear

2:52:50from a number of our social services providers

2:52:51as we have previously,

2:52:53that we need to provide the services where individuals are.

2:52:56And so that's going to be the challenge

2:52:58is moving a key service out of the downtown core

2:53:01may put it in a place where it's inaccessible

2:53:03to the very people who need to utilize the service.

2:53:06And when a number of our other key social services

2:53:10are located within the downtown core,

2:53:13we're going to need to weigh those options very, very carefully.

2:53:18And of course, the time pressure on this

2:53:22becomes a little bit of the challenge

2:53:24because council directed us to enter

2:53:27into the one year pilot program,

2:53:29which does come to an end at the end of December.

2:53:31And so I guess we're looking to council for some direction.

2:53:36Ultimately, we will take that direction.

2:53:39We weren't in the business of funding a daytime shelter

2:53:41prior to a year ago,

2:53:43and that was a decision that council made.

2:53:45So an option would be that you make the decision not

2:53:48to continue funding a daytime shelter,

2:53:50but we certainly heard through the collective results report

2:53:53that their feedback was that that was a gap as well,

2:53:57and that there was a need.

2:53:58So I guess that was a long way around of saying

2:54:00the feedback to the DGBA will absolutely,

2:54:02of course, be incorporated,

2:54:03but it is one element of the feedback.

2:54:06And then my other cautionary note is the extent

2:54:09that we can do perhaps as fulsome engagement

2:54:12as we might like to do is going to be limited

2:54:15by the time available if the desire is to have a report

2:54:20back in an RFP issued before that pilot program

2:54:24ends on December 31st,

2:54:27which is why in the motion you'll see

2:54:29that we have also sought direction from council

2:54:31on whether we need to consult with Royal City Mission

2:54:35about a possible extension just because of that time.

2:54:38The pilot ends on December 31st.

2:54:40So without council direction,

2:54:42nothing will continue past December 31st.

2:54:45Okay, thank you for that.

2:54:46So we're giving direction here.

2:54:49There will be a report coming back to city council

2:54:51before the end of the year here.

2:54:53We talk about November,

2:54:55but in terms of determining a location

2:54:57that would all come back as a decision

2:54:59of Royal City Council.

2:55:05Through the mayor to Councillor Goller,

2:55:06I think our commitment to you is to come back to you

2:55:09under that time period with a recommendation

2:55:12on what the process might be.

2:55:13I don't wanna commit to what that would be

2:55:15until we go out and have these conversations

2:55:18because we haven't started the conversations yet.

2:55:22But ultimately, it was the decision of city council

2:55:26to enter into the funding of a daytime shelter.

2:55:29And so I don't believe that we as staff could proceed.

2:55:33We don't have any authority to proceed

2:55:36without coming back to council for direction on that.

2:55:38So I guess in answer to your question,

2:55:40yes, we will be coming back to council

2:55:42to seek further direction

2:55:45even with the current motion that's on the floor.

2:55:49Okay, okay, I appreciate that.

2:55:51And I'm following up.

2:55:54This specifically talks about the downtown secondary plan area

2:55:59and that is because the other services

2:56:01are provided in that vicinity.

2:56:06If we were to remove that restriction with that,

2:56:10I'm not enabled you to look at the city as a whole

2:56:13at potential locations to provide this level of service.

2:56:16I'm just concerned that we'll end up

2:56:20with a daytime shelter in our main square

2:56:25that will have other negative impacts

2:56:27to the vitality over downtown.

2:56:33Through the mayor to council Gowler,

2:56:35if the desire was to have us look more broadly

2:56:37across the city, we could certainly do that.

2:56:39I think we would then probably be looking at issuing

2:56:43an open-ended RFP to see who responded to it.

2:56:46I don't, again, I don't wanna sort of,

2:56:48I haven't consulted with anyone on this,

2:56:51so I'm speaking a little bit off the cuff,

2:56:54but I can't imagine that we would then be in a position

2:56:56by November to come back to you and say,

2:56:58it needs to be located in this three kilometer radius.

2:57:01So I think it would rather be

2:57:03that we would issue an open-ended RFP

2:57:05with no geographic limitations

2:57:07and see what response we got back from service providers.

2:57:13So through your worship,

2:57:17I would like to move a motion that just removes the,

2:57:23Councillor Goller.

2:57:24Yes, your worship.

2:57:25Yeah, yeah, there's nothing on the floor here, right?

2:57:28We're going just questions.

2:57:29Yeah, yeah, there's nothing on the floor yet.

2:57:32I will move a motion then just to remove the words.

2:57:34Yeah, I'll go back to you.

2:57:36I'll start a list here of potential amendments, okay?

2:57:42I'll put you number one on the list,

2:57:44but if you could just stick to questions then,

2:57:46you're number one on the list when we go back

2:57:48to motions or amendments, okay?

2:57:51Thank you, your worship.

2:57:52So you have another question as well.

2:57:55I'm number 12.

2:57:56Yep, go ahead.

2:57:57Through your worship to staff,

2:57:58I'm really excited to see recommendation 12 here

2:58:01to move up to four residential units for a lot as of right.

2:58:06If I could just ask for staff,

2:58:07it says immediately prepare a zoning,

2:58:10what would the timeline be for this

2:58:13so that the people in the community

2:58:15could potentially apply for this?

2:58:16Are we talking about immediate means six months

2:58:20in a real life timeline or immediate means end of year?

2:58:24Just what is our capacity to act of this?

2:58:29Through the mayor to the Councillor.

2:58:31So the immediately prepare is to accelerate this

2:58:33and bring this forward.

2:58:34The previous motion that we have from Council

2:58:37was to look at four, six, eight plus units

2:58:40and that timeline was Q1 2025.

2:58:44So with this motion, we will pull the four units earlier

2:58:48than that process,

2:58:49but we still have to go through a public process.

2:58:51We still have to advertise for a public meeting,

2:58:54have a public meeting and then make a decision on it.

2:58:57In the background, we've been looking at this

2:58:58and determining where we have capacity.

2:59:01Not every street will have the capacity to accommodate this.

2:59:06Maybe it could accommodate one four unit building,

2:59:09but if there was 10 on a street,

2:59:10the three quarter inch water main that's been there

2:59:12since 1950 isn't going to allow for fire suppression.

2:59:17So it is a bit of a complicated review

2:59:18that we've already started

2:59:19and been working with our engineering colleagues

2:59:21to look at this.

2:59:22I think we'll be bringing hopefully a public meeting report

2:59:25for the public meeting in January

2:59:27and then a decision meeting to follow that.

2:59:29Okay, so we'd be like possibly end of Q1

2:59:33or early Q2 next year?

2:59:36Q1 for sure, early Q1 for the public meeting report,

2:59:42but then we have to advertise again for the decision,

2:59:45which might take it into Q2.

2:59:48Okay, thank you.

2:59:49Thank you very much.

2:59:50Thank you, Worship.

2:59:51Those are my questions.

2:59:54Great, thank you.

2:59:55I kind of like what councillor Goller did there.

2:59:58These are my questions and my numbers.

2:59:59So if you could try to do the same thing,

3:00:00then we can all follow along, okay?

3:00:02Councillor Allt, you're next and then Downer.

3:00:04Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:00:05Regrettably, my questions will not be numbered

3:00:07because they're more of a broad nature,

3:00:11but I do believe that they are just as important.

3:00:14With regards to the first question,

3:00:15which was somewhat telegraphed to staff,

3:00:18and I believe now that I see Ms. Walke here,

3:00:20I'm not certain whether it's for Ms. Walke

3:00:22or for Ms. Matthews.

3:00:24I am wondering if we are able to identify

3:00:26what our housing needs are related to family

3:00:30and household size.

3:00:32We are constantly talking about such things

3:00:34as supportive and other forms of housing

3:00:40for people to be reestablished in a solid accommodation.

3:00:44But it strikes me that we have a bigger problem than that

3:00:46and it gets to what do we really need within the community?

3:00:50And I think we need to be really blunt on this.

3:00:54Can we do this?

3:00:57Do we know what we need right now?

3:01:01Through the mayor to the councillor.

3:01:02So we have committed to having our next report

3:01:06from the Housing Affordability Strategy

3:01:07to Council in December,

3:01:09which is kind of that state of the environment.

3:01:11This is what we have and this is what we need

3:01:13so that report will be coming to council in December.

3:01:16And just, I need to ask the financial question as well.

3:01:19And I don't know whether that's for you or for Ms. Baker,

3:01:22but what are the levels of government

3:01:25that have the financial means and the authority

3:01:28to build and finance deeply affordable housing?

3:01:32Do we as a city have it realistically?

3:01:35Can we do that?

3:01:42Through the mayor, I'll start,

3:01:43but I'll very quickly pass it to Ms. Baker.

3:01:47So we have an allotment every year

3:01:49that we provide to affordable housing

3:01:51and that is what council approves through the budget

3:01:53and that is what we have every year provided

3:01:57to affordable housing unless individual organizations

3:02:00come forward for additional budgetary dollars,

3:02:03which they have in the past.

3:02:07So through the mayor to councillor Alta,

3:02:09I would just say that affordability

3:02:11is really a question that council needs to determine

3:02:14what is affordable for the community.

3:02:17I will state that to accommodate this type of investment

3:02:24means to either increase taxes or to find capacity

3:02:30within our current service programs.

3:02:33And so those are the real kind of decision points

3:02:36that you'll have to consider at budget.

3:02:38And if you just unpack what you mean by capacity.

3:02:44So just so through the mayor to councillor Alta,

3:02:47that within our service provisions,

3:02:52we provide a lot of services that are all critical.

3:02:56And if you choose to reduce those services

3:02:59to create physical capacity to invest in this priority,

3:03:04that is an option.

3:03:05And then the other option would be

3:03:07that you would be increasing property taxes

3:03:09for this type of priority or this level of investment.

3:03:13Yeah, without being really specific or to the point,

3:03:18I would presume that when we talk about

3:03:20increasing property taxes,

3:03:22we are looking at not an insubstantial amount.

3:03:27Would that be a fair assumption?

3:03:30So through the mayor to councillor Alta,

3:03:33I can say that at our current level,

3:03:37at this point in time, approximately $3 million

3:03:40is a 1% tax increase from a residential,

3:03:44average residential perspective.

3:03:46And so I can't speak to the level of investment at this point.

3:03:52I've heard varying, like different commentary on that,

3:03:56but that's really in terms of trying to put that into dollars.

3:04:01$3 million is about a 1% tax levy impact.

3:04:05Okay, and perhaps I will go to the next question,

3:04:07which I think is probably for Mr. Stewart.

3:04:10There was some suggestion that operational funds

3:04:13for frontline staff in the current transitional

3:04:15support of housing that's coming online

3:04:18could be provided for the city.

3:04:19And I've just heard Ms. Baker say that's a 1%

3:04:22of the budget if memory serves.

3:04:24But there's a bigger question here.

3:04:26And that is, and it's one that I'm trying to get out

3:04:28with housing as well.

3:04:30Are we seeing the province or the federal government

3:04:32actually fulfilling their responsibility

3:04:36for this kind of funding, both for housing and for support?

3:04:40And what's the role of the Canada Health Act in this?

3:04:43So through you, Mr. Mayor, I might encourage council

3:04:46just in this line of questioning

3:04:48to look at recommendation 14 and 15.

3:04:50They are sort of combined.

3:04:53And to answer your very first question that you asked,

3:04:55the answer is no, we can't afford all these things.

3:04:58Not this way.

3:04:59That's why 15 is so important.

3:05:01So when we talk about a new deal,

3:05:06our eyes will glaze over here in about 10 seconds,

3:05:08opening up the constitution so that we are actually

3:05:11at the table with the other two orders of government

3:05:13is long overdue.

3:05:15We continue to operate in the 21st century

3:05:18and we've got 19th century rules.

3:05:20It is just not sustainable.

3:05:22And it's the wrong way to do this.

3:05:24They either have to step in and fund us differently

3:05:26or allow municipalities to be at the adult table.

3:05:30So 14 gets you to the very clear directions that you gave

3:05:34and the mayor has followed up on and with the new minister

3:05:40so that we can get them make us whole.

3:05:42That's to deal with the province and that's clear.

3:05:44You cannot remove $227 million out of our budget

3:05:47and we somehow can just,

3:05:48there is no money tree that we have in the basement.

3:05:51So they either have to fund that

3:05:53or we have to stop doing things.

3:05:55That's the dilemma.

3:05:56Same on 15.

3:05:58The province and the government of Canada

3:06:00have to step into the space

3:06:01because what you're hearing and what's happening

3:06:04is we need $3 million to do this thing,

3:06:06this operational piece.

3:06:08The lanes have become fuzzy, the funding has not.

3:06:12They are not at the table in a coordinated,

3:06:14sustainable way to help municipalities.

3:06:17So these are heart string moments

3:06:20or very emotional moments.

3:06:21And I will sound cold,

3:06:23but where do you draw the line on these sort of things?

3:06:26And that's a difficult spot

3:06:28that you've now been put into with all of this.

3:06:30So this isn't, hot potatoes feel like finger pointing.

3:06:34These are hot potatoes.

3:06:36Part of today will be clear on what we call

3:06:38in the federal government and the provincial government

3:06:40to do and by default, the county.

3:06:43Because I would suggest if we were at a county council meeting

3:06:45they probably have the same discussion around the province.

3:06:49Where are they?

3:06:50You heard the head of our hospital talk about it.

3:06:52It's a health issue.

3:06:53Where is the health ministry?

3:06:56Step into this role stronger.

3:06:57It's not just municipal affairs.

3:07:00It's so many to play a coordinated

3:07:02across all government roles.

3:07:04So it's a bit soap boxy.

3:07:05We cannot afford to do all this.

3:07:08Yes, we're on the cusp of our budget issues.

3:07:12I'm not sure we can afford to do all the programs

3:07:14that we offer that are your core businesses,

3:07:16little step in into other areas.

3:07:18And these are all things that you want to do.

3:07:21And so that's the dilemma you have

3:07:23is the funding mechanism of property taxes

3:07:26is the wrong way to do it.

3:07:28It's regressive.

3:07:29I think I've heard councillor Iraq say that many times.

3:07:33And I concur.

3:07:34So we cannot afford to do it,

3:07:37but we cannot afford to turn a blind eye to it.

3:07:39And that's the dilemma of the hot potato conversation

3:07:42with some of the delegates here.

3:07:43We just might not be able to do everything

3:07:45as fast as possible,

3:07:47but we sure as heck could

3:07:49if the other orders of government stepped in

3:07:50and funded these things properly.

3:07:52That onus is going to be on us

3:07:55to remind them of that across the country.

3:07:57So this is an AMO moment and this is an FCM moment.

3:08:00It is not just a gualf issue, but we can lead.

3:08:03And we've heard a lot about leadership today.

3:08:05So let's step into that.

3:08:06Let's lead councillor Allt.

3:08:09We cannot afford to do it on property taxes.

3:08:11So I think I've said that lots.

3:08:13We can't.

3:08:14And next, we're on the cusp November 7th,

3:08:17I think is the first budget meeting.

3:08:18You'll see it all too.

3:08:20And then it comes down to,

3:08:21so what do you take out to do these things?

3:08:24And that is horrible because it isn't a fair comparison.

3:08:29And so we have got things to do together.

3:08:31And I think that's,

3:08:32I think that's the call of action today.

3:08:34How do we pool others together?

3:08:35How do we get everybody to the table?

3:08:37And maybe how does Guelph lead?

3:08:39Maybe we don't have to drive to London to see things.

3:08:42Maybe just do it here.

3:08:43And so maybe we can bring in some other ministry staff.

3:08:47You heard Mr. Walton talk about the head of nurses,

3:08:51the ADM.

3:08:52Maybe we need more of that here locally,

3:08:55but have to come with the promise of deliver on something.

3:08:58So again, you can't just,

3:09:00and I don't mean this in a disrespectful way

3:09:01to ministers or ADMs,

3:09:03but you have to come here.

3:09:04How are we funding this?

3:09:06We cannot do it ourselves.

3:09:08So that's a criteria of municipality has.

3:09:11So how is the province going to change how they fund us?

3:09:14But we're already fighting with the province

3:09:16because they've taken away all the 227 million.

3:09:20It is just crazy that somehow municipalities

3:09:23are now being expected to do everything

3:09:24for everybody all the time.

3:09:27Unattainable.

3:09:29Sorry, that's a bit soap boxy, but it is unattainable.

3:09:32Thank you very much.

3:09:34And I think we'll leave the soap box here,

3:09:36but on the same vein,

3:09:38I believe that there are some people

3:09:40that might take exception with us,

3:09:42perhaps doing such things as building facilities,

3:09:46such as we kicked the grass for today out in the South,

3:09:49but I was wondering, Ms. Clackbush,

3:09:51I think it would probably be you.

3:09:53It strikes me that this kind of facility

3:09:55is essential for community wellbeing

3:09:57and personal wellbeing,

3:09:59and really does conform to Maslow's need.

3:10:01Why do we need that kind of facility

3:10:03when we're dealing with housing

3:10:05and the lack of housing within a community right now?

3:10:08What's the correlation between the two?

3:10:10And why should we be recognizing or reinforcing for people

3:10:16that facilities and infrastructure still matter

3:10:19during this affordability crisis?

3:10:23Through the mayor to council,

3:10:24I would say for all of the reasons that you've just mentioned,

3:10:27I mean, we know that in order to have a complete community

3:10:30and a healthy and a well community,

3:10:31we need to provide people with the amenities

3:10:34that make people want to live here,

3:10:35but that also provide people with the means

3:10:37to stay healthy, stay fit, learn to swim, learn to skate,

3:10:41all of those important things

3:10:43for people of all ages in the community.

3:10:45And so it's about keeping our community well and healthy,

3:10:48but it's also making our community

3:10:50a desirable place to live.

3:10:52And so we know that the South End

3:10:54has been under service for many, many years,

3:10:57but the community as a whole is under service,

3:10:59for example, for aquatic space.

3:11:01Our swimming lessons are filled faster

3:11:03than we can put them up on the website to offer.

3:11:06And so we can't simply focus on building houses

3:11:11without making sure that we are building

3:11:13full and complete communities that include

3:11:16all of the amenities, transit, parks, trails,

3:11:20recreation centers,

3:11:22because that's what makes a complete community.

3:11:25And thank you.

3:11:25And thanks both the staff to the delegates

3:11:27and to the community.

3:11:28We've got a budget coming up where I know

3:11:30that housing will surely challenge us as well,

3:11:32regrettably a number of other things.

3:11:36Okay, thank you.

3:11:36Sticking to questions, please.

3:11:39Can we go to Downer than Cawson?

3:11:42Thank you.

3:11:42Mr. Mayor, so this is a general question.

3:11:46We heard a number of the delegates ask about

3:11:49prioritizing these 17 recommendations.

3:11:52So I could get a staff response.

3:11:54So my read is that there are all different players

3:11:58within city staff that would be leading each one

3:12:01and that they're all priorities,

3:12:03but I just would like to hear a response from staff.

3:12:07Through the mayor to Councillor Downer,

3:12:08they are absolutely not in a priority order.

3:12:12They are simply grouped together

3:12:14in the way that we came to develop them.

3:12:16It was probably a little bit intentional

3:12:18that Jane and I read the opposite recommendations

3:12:22to what you might normally associate with our areas.

3:12:24I don't know that it would be easy for us

3:12:26to prioritize the 17 because we think

3:12:29that they're all really important for you to consider.

3:12:32So I realize that probably doesn't help,

3:12:34but they are not in priority order.

3:12:36They are all, I would say, equally important.

3:12:40So the next question is around the number three,

3:12:43the symposium that's coming up.

3:12:46Have you had any discussions with Ms. Tuso

3:12:49regarding the symposium?

3:12:52Can we change that date to the end of Q4 this year?

3:12:56Because I do agree with the urgency.

3:12:59I think we're gonna get some,

3:13:01from my understanding of discussions with her,

3:13:04we're gonna get some, hopefully some action

3:13:07coming out of that, which will create other priorities

3:13:09that might tie into this.

3:13:11So through the mayor to Councillor Downer,

3:13:13and you actually maybe eagle eyes caught,

3:13:16that there is a change between the report

3:13:17and the presentation.

3:13:18So the presentation said Q4 2023,

3:13:22the report, the recommendation before you is Q1 2024.

3:13:25That is because of the conversations with the county.

3:13:28In speaking with Ms. Artuso,

3:13:30they are looking at targeting a date of January.

3:13:33We are in October now,

3:13:34and planning a symposium like this for December,

3:13:37they felt would not be the best in terms of getting

3:13:40the attendees at it that they would want to have there.

3:13:43So it is the county, they are leading it.

3:13:45They, on their own, had shared that with us

3:13:47on September the 12th,

3:13:48that they were planning to lead the symposium.

3:13:51This recommendation simply reinforces,

3:13:53I think, that you support them in that,

3:13:55but specifically asks that they have the participation

3:13:58of those that we've listed in planning the symposium.

3:14:01So I have not yet been included on any of the planning,

3:14:05meetings, but I did discuss this resolution,

3:14:06or this recommendation with Ms. Artuso,

3:14:09and it was their request that they would be doing it

3:14:13in January, which is why the recommendation

3:14:15and the written reports says Q1 2024.

3:14:19Okay.

3:14:20Well, I guess at least it's January.

3:14:24So the other question is around the number 12,

3:14:31the four residential units.

3:14:33And I understand that's gonna go through

3:14:35a proper bylaw process.

3:14:40My concern is that if approved,

3:14:45would this get tied up in the appeal by the homeowners,

3:14:50the development association of the whole bylaw,

3:14:54where they've already appealed the three plex.

3:14:56So we could end up having four plexes,

3:14:58but not three plexes,

3:15:00because of their appeal on the whole bylaw.

3:15:03I mean, it's really frustrating when you talk about holdups

3:15:06and the, you know, by community members.

3:15:12Through the chair to councillor Downer, yes,

3:15:15and undoubtedly this will get caught up in the appeal

3:15:17that we have on the comprehensive zoning bylaw.

3:15:19So that could be years away if we don't get a hearing soon.

3:15:26If we don't get a hearing soon,

3:15:27or if matters are not scoped down.

3:15:29So there's a possibility of scoping matters down as well.

3:15:32Because they've written a letter of support

3:15:35that we've received today,

3:15:36and yet it could get tied up in their appeal.

3:15:44All the reality association, the developers, right?

3:15:47Sorry, I just thought I'd come in today.

3:15:49Okay, so that's unfortunate.

3:15:57No, I'm just saying it's really counterproductive.

3:16:02No problem, thank you.

3:16:04Sorry, I just covered up my list here.

3:16:06Clausen, then Boussatil.

3:16:09Thank you, through you, Mr. Mayor, and this is the staff.

3:16:14It's in the same vein as councillor Downer's question

3:16:16about advancing the symposium

3:16:19and addressing the urgency from Mr. Walton.

3:16:24You know, January is, you know, Mr. Walton,

3:16:26he said winter is coming.

3:16:28And my concern is that, you know,

3:16:33we know that in August our shelters were full

3:16:36and that shelters were turning people away.

3:16:40And so I have a question with regard to

3:16:42like a winter homelessness plan.

3:16:45Do we know if the county has

3:16:47a winter homelessness plan in place?

3:16:50And if not, is that something that we can ask for potentially?

3:16:59So through the mayor to councillor Klassen,

3:17:00I would want to probably formally ask that of the county,

3:17:04my recollection of their last presentation to you,

3:17:07there wasn't a specific winter plan that they articulated

3:17:10that having been said, we did recently convene a meeting

3:17:15to which we invited both representatives of public health

3:17:18and the county of Wellington to talk specifically

3:17:20about encampments given that winter is coming.

3:17:22Unfortunately, nobody from public health was able to join us,

3:17:26but the county of Wellington did join us for the meeting.

3:17:29It was our three emergency services chiefs,

3:17:32as well as the executive team and the county of Wellington staff.

3:17:35And they had indicated to us that they did not feel

3:17:38that shelter space was an issue given the number of beds

3:17:42that were coming online and that there were other factors

3:17:45at play.

3:17:45So I'm not suggesting that I am in a good position

3:17:50to state what is or isn't factual case.

3:17:53There are others, probably some in this room,

3:17:54but certainly the county who could better speak

3:17:56to the availability of shelter spaces,

3:17:58but at that meeting that we hosted with them,

3:18:01they were very clear with us as our CMSM

3:18:04that they didn't feel that availability of shelter spaces

3:18:07was an issue and that we needed to look

3:18:09to other contributing factors as to why we were seeing

3:18:12an increase in encampments.

3:18:13But certainly I think that is one of many good questions

3:18:18to be posing back to them in our ongoing discussions.

3:18:23Okay, thank you.

3:18:24I'll think a little bit more about that one

3:18:26because I think the urgency is there.

3:18:29I think we had the same issue last year.

3:18:32And in shelter spaces, certainly a key component

3:18:36of a winter, like a homelessness strategy in the winter,

3:18:39but there's other pieces to that puzzle as well,

3:18:41like warming spaces.

3:18:43And so I think continuing that conversation

3:18:47is really important.

3:18:48I wanna move to my second question,

3:18:49which is just addressing number four and five

3:18:52and the language in four and five.

3:18:54Going back to Ms. McPherson,

3:18:58and address some of our other delegates

3:19:01and talking about how language is important.

3:19:03So four and five refer to language around

3:19:06the homelessness plan, homelessness strategy.

3:19:10And I'm wondering if it's possible to,

3:19:14you know, this is a question,

3:19:15to switch the language to reflect homelessness

3:19:18and prevention because I know that the homelessness strategy

3:19:23through the county, for example,

3:19:24does include some components of prevention.

3:19:27And I think language is important.

3:19:29So I don't know if that's a question for,

3:19:32who that is a question for.

3:19:36So through the mayor to councillor Klossin,

3:19:38I can certainly jump in and there's,

3:19:41there's sometimes language that's used by the province

3:19:44in terms of what they legislatively require the county

3:19:47to provide, which speaks to homelessness

3:19:49and housing stability.

3:19:51And so you'll sometimes see that language used

3:19:53that is because that tends to reflect

3:19:56the province's language.

3:19:57And so that sometimes can be where our stumbling block is.

3:19:59I think we all may agree that we're talking

3:20:01about the same thing.

3:20:02Affordable housing is probably another phrase

3:20:04that plagues us because that can mean different things

3:20:06to different people, but by definition,

3:20:08the province defines it one way.

3:20:09So the province does sort of dictate

3:20:12that the county as our CMSM provides

3:20:15the homelessness and housing stability services,

3:20:19but to the language that's in the recommendations,

3:20:23it really was pulled predominantly

3:20:24from the collective results report.

3:20:27And so I think as long as the intention is still there,

3:20:30but what you're looking for,

3:20:32we were just simply looking to reflect

3:20:35both the language from the collective results report,

3:20:37but also the language that the county themselves uses

3:20:39as our CMSM.

3:20:42Okay, I think that makes sense.

3:20:43Thank you.

3:20:45And I have one final,

3:20:47going back to the question that I had about

3:20:48the winter plan and the strategy,

3:20:50I just had a few minutes to digest.

3:20:53You know, Mr. Walton said to use language, it's a crisis.

3:20:57We use language internally around emergencies

3:21:00and emergency management.

3:21:02Is this an issue that could qualify as an emergency?

3:21:07Through the mayor to council class

3:21:08and not in the eyes of the province,

3:21:09we followed up on that with emergency management,

3:21:12Ontario previously, that isn't to say

3:21:14that I'm offering an opinion on whether or not

3:21:16it is an emergency, but it's about the very strict definition

3:21:19of declaring a state of emergency and what that means.

3:21:21Some other jurisdictions did declare a state of emergency

3:21:25and it didn't have the desired effect

3:21:27because the province in essence said that isn't,

3:21:30a state of emergency is for short-term, time limited.

3:21:34It's a tornado, it's a flood, it's a fire,

3:21:36it's obviously a pandemic that lasted a whole lot longer,

3:21:39but emergency management Ontario,

3:21:41and I think it was the ADM, I'm looking to my ADM, yes,

3:21:46who got back to us and indicated

3:21:48that that wasn't the appropriate tool to use,

3:21:50that declaring a state of emergency

3:21:52would not access additional funds from the province

3:21:54and was in essence misuse of the emergency,

3:21:58the emergency management act.

3:21:59So again, not to state that it isn't an emergency,

3:22:04but by the province's definition

3:22:05of what the legislation allows us to declare as an emergency,

3:22:09it did not fit the criteria.

3:22:17Thank you, Councillor Klassen.

3:22:19Bruce, until then, Richardson.

3:22:20Thank you.

3:22:21I want to say thank you to Councillor Klassen

3:22:23and for the staff response

3:22:25because the ruthless immediate action

3:22:29in response to Mark Walton's delegation around winter

3:22:33was something on my list as well,

3:22:35and also in light of City of Toronto winter measures.

3:22:38So thank you for that response,

3:22:40but if staff can perhaps take that away

3:22:42in conversation with the county.

3:22:44I do have a question about a definition,

3:22:47and then my question is on two and 12.

3:22:50So the delegation from Dominica McPherson

3:22:54from the Poverty Task Force talked about affordable housing

3:22:57and the definition of 30% of income.

3:23:00I was wondering if staff could just, you know,

3:23:05provide a definition because it's all

3:23:07through the recommendations as well

3:23:08or just an update on that lens?

3:23:15Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

3:23:16And through Mayor Guthrie to the Councillor,

3:23:19that was wrong, but I think everybody knows what I meant.

3:23:24So right now the provincial, the planning act

3:23:27and the provincial policy statement

3:23:28have a definition of 30% of income.

3:23:30That's what the city has been using.

3:23:32That's what we report on every year

3:23:34in our growth monitoring and affordable housing strategy.

3:23:37And that's where we come up with the numbers

3:23:40that we say is affordable for rental

3:23:42and affordable for purchase.

3:23:46Right now though, there's consultation

3:23:48on what the definition of affordable housing is.

3:23:50So in bill 23, affordable housing was introduced

3:23:54at 80% of market.

3:23:57The province has consultation right out right now

3:24:01for a new definition of affordable housing

3:24:03and they've brought back income.

3:24:04So that's good news that they brought back income.

3:24:08They gave us a 30 day window to provide comments on.

3:24:12So the staff team is working on that right now

3:24:17on our response.

3:24:18You will see in the consultation summary

3:24:20and the information reports from this past Friday

3:24:23was the link to the ER posting for that definition

3:24:26if you want further details.

3:24:28But staff are looking at it

3:24:29and I think the challenge we have

3:24:31with the definition of affordable housing

3:24:33is that it takes the community as a whole

3:24:37and it takes the market as a whole

3:24:39and not really dividing it down based on unit type

3:24:44or the further dividing it down

3:24:46on true affordability based on low income.

3:24:51So staff are looking at it.

3:24:52We're gonna provide comments back

3:24:55similar to the way we have DCs

3:24:57which is broken down a little bit by unit type.

3:24:59We're gonna be asking the province to consider that as well

3:25:01so that it's, if you've got a million dollar homes

3:25:05that the affordability becomes 400,000, 500,000

3:25:10and that is not an affordable number.

3:25:11So we're gonna be providing additional information

3:25:14back to the province when we provide our feedback

3:25:17within I think about two weeks.

3:25:20Thank you and just a supplemental in that definition.

3:25:22Is it spatially linked?

3:25:24So the definition for growth is the same as City of Toronto

3:25:28as it is for Thunder Bay.

3:25:29It's through the mayor.

3:25:33So it is for our community.

3:25:35So it is based for our community,

3:25:37not provincial, province wide.

3:25:40Thank you.

3:25:41Through the mayor, my second question is

3:25:44item number two, the recommendation.

3:25:46And my experience with governance is,

3:25:49it's two halves of the walnut.

3:25:51The political council kind of governance

3:25:54and I'll speak to comments about that

3:25:55when we get to comments or speaking to the resolution.

3:25:58But for me, governance is also about the staff

3:26:01and what the staff can do operationally.

3:26:05Things like joint planning with the county,

3:26:08collaboratively planning process that engages council

3:26:13for input, reporting and accountability.

3:26:15So my question for the staff is,

3:26:18if staff were to work more closely in those processes,

3:26:23operationally with the staff at the county,

3:26:26do we have the capacity currently

3:26:29within our staff to do that?

3:26:35So through you, Mr. Mayor, I'm not sure,

3:26:40unusual, I'm not sure if I've got a clear yes or no to that.

3:26:44So Councillor, I'm unsure because I think

3:26:48if this first meeting gets underway,

3:26:50if council votes for this,

3:26:52it'll be a little clearer to me on,

3:26:53so what's in scope and what's not in scope?

3:26:57And at that point, I think I could give you

3:26:59a much clearer answer or I feel better

3:27:01about giving you an answer.

3:27:03There's certainly things that we can

3:27:05and should do more work with the county on.

3:27:09And I think as DCO Clark Bush had said earlier,

3:27:14our working relationship, at least my experience

3:27:17with working with the CEO Wilson and others over there,

3:27:21has been a good one, has been positive.

3:27:23And yet we recognize that there is a jurisdictional difference

3:27:26because there is, but I think there's more to be done.

3:27:28And so I don't know what all that more is yet.

3:27:30So that's a horrible non-answer for you.

3:27:35I'll know more if this gets voted on and we do it

3:27:37and then we'll have a sense,

3:27:38especially when we're reporting back in.

3:27:40What more can we work on together?

3:27:42What are you bringing forward?

3:27:45Especially where we overlap here

3:27:46within the city of Guelph.

3:27:48So there's lots of room for that,

3:27:50whether it's through all the, through the planning staff,

3:27:53I'm over there or other ways that we can connect in.

3:27:57I know Ms. Baker often talks to, in fact,

3:27:59I was at something with their treasurer

3:28:01about three weeks ago.

3:28:03So we were having lots of comments

3:28:05about what this budget will look like.

3:28:07So it's there, we have to formalize it a little more

3:28:10and it'll be a bit better.

3:28:11And I can bring back details on that later

3:28:13if you just give me a little bit of patience on that.

3:28:17It's one of the outcomes.

3:28:19Thank you.

3:28:20And my last question is about recommendation number 12

3:28:23and I apologize, I am confused.

3:28:27The recommendation speaks about as a right

3:28:30up to four residential units.

3:28:32And so in my brain, I think units.

3:28:34And then we receive correspondence

3:28:39saying, you know, they want us to support four stories.

3:28:44So I'm confused around what exactly are we

3:28:48speaking about there.

3:28:50Can you help me understand, is it units?

3:28:53Is it, what exactly is that?

3:28:56And if you can help me, that would be helpful, obviously.

3:29:01Through the mayor to the counselor.

3:29:03So staff are looking at four units.

3:29:06With the four units, we'll be looking at parking

3:29:09and setbacks and services and everything else

3:29:12associated with it.

3:29:14And what we're looking at is four units.

3:29:18As a right.

3:29:20Thank you.

3:29:21And you and I did exchange emails.

3:29:23So in my mind then, if it is a residential R1 home,

3:29:28potentially it could be a primary residence

3:29:32with a basement apartment.

3:29:35And if the property is large enough,

3:29:38then you could do an accessory unit in the back.

3:29:41And that accessory unit could have an apartment loft

3:29:45or a basement as well.

3:29:46Is that, those are units.

3:29:48Is that correct?

3:29:54Through the mayor, that would be correct

3:29:57on what a unit is.

3:29:59Whether staff will be looking at a triplex

3:30:02plus one additional unit in the back

3:30:05or a different mix is something we'll be bringing forward

3:30:08as part of the public meeting.

3:30:11It most likely won't be two units in the back.

3:30:14It would be three and one at best case.

3:30:18Thank you.

3:30:19Four four in one.

3:30:21Yeah.

3:30:26Okay.

3:30:31Richardson then my last is a Rourke.

3:30:34Can I just see if there's any other questions?

3:30:37Okay.

3:30:38Gibson.

3:30:39Okay.

3:30:39Thank you.

3:30:40And my questions were also related to two eight and 12.

3:30:43So thank you, Councillor Boussadiel

3:30:44for bringing those, because mine have mostly been answered.

3:30:53A Rourke and then Gibson.

3:30:55Thank you, America.

3:30:56Three, through you to staff,

3:30:59we heard that income is a big component of this

3:31:03insufficiency of ODSP and those types of things.

3:31:05So as part of our advocacy,

3:31:09I know we've passed a motion calling on the province

3:31:11to increase ODSP rates and Ontario works, I believe.

3:31:17Where's the overall advocacy in terms of ODSP Ontario works

3:31:20and also the increase of non-market units

3:31:23that haven't increased since 2011?

3:31:32Through the mayor to council work,

3:31:33I think that would be through the county

3:31:35as our housing stability manager

3:31:38that we would want to seek their advice on that,

3:31:42on what they are doing to lobby the province on that.

3:31:45Okay. Thanks.

3:31:48Oh yeah.

3:31:48So five, six and 12.

3:31:50So on five really quick,

3:31:53happy to see we're asking the province to transfer land

3:31:58that they own in the city that could be used

3:32:00for funding or for housing.

3:32:03I'm wondering, through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:32:04I'm wondering if we've ever asked about the OPP station

3:32:08that's along Wellington that seems vacant

3:32:11and is that an option for conversion?

3:32:17So through you, Mr. Mayor,

3:32:19so I think we've left this one broad based

3:32:22so that we can capture everything

3:32:24because there'll always be an example of.

3:32:26So certainly if you're thinking of things,

3:32:28you know, look, I don't know if Luke Jefferson

3:32:30is in the audience, but if he's not,

3:32:32okay, well, guess what Luke, you might get some emails.

3:32:37But I think ultimately it's broad based

3:32:39because we want the province to consider everything

3:32:41that they may own and that includes other agencies.

3:32:45You know, so they might not naturally just think of,

3:32:48the OPP they might, but there might be other agencies,

3:32:51you know, infrastructure in Ontario,

3:32:53Luke's after another piece of property in the city as well.

3:32:55So we just want to make sure it's broad based enough

3:32:58so that everything and anything is looked at

3:33:00and their response is their response

3:33:02and they'll have to own that.

3:33:04So hopefully that satisfies that,

3:33:05but if you're thinking of something specifically,

3:33:08Councillor O'Rourke or others,

3:33:10make sure Luke is also aware of it

3:33:11because, you know, we don't want something left out

3:33:13where we should have known about.

3:33:15Great, thanks.

3:33:16Through you, Mayor Guthrie, just further on number five,

3:33:20one of the motions that we had in our housing pledge

3:33:24was asking for funds for brownfield remediation

3:33:26and I'm thinking of the Emiko property

3:33:29that originally had a plan.

3:33:30It was going to have affordable housing.

3:33:32So it is still sitting.

3:33:33Is there any benefit?

3:33:34And I don't, we don't need 25 recommendations,

3:33:37but any benefit to reiterating the request

3:33:41for the brownfields?

3:33:42I know we did it at Emiko.

3:33:48Through you, Mr. Mayor, maybe I'll jump in.

3:33:50Can I suggest that let us,

3:33:53if this measure, if this recommendation gets approved,

3:33:56let us have that conversation with Mayor Guthrie

3:33:58unless he wanted to jump in now.

3:34:00But I also think there's some court issues

3:34:03on that particular site too.

3:34:05So, you know, I wouldn't want to offer up something

3:34:07that actually isn't available

3:34:09and I don't know all the details.

3:34:10I shouldn't know all the details

3:34:11on that sitting here today.

3:34:13So if we can maybe have an offline chat about that,

3:34:16I hear you on the brownfield piece

3:34:18and we have asked for it

3:34:20and there is other brownfield locations.

3:34:22Yeah.

3:34:23You know, Fountain Street is there too.

3:34:24So there's lots of places that we can maybe reinforce it

3:34:27as I ask from the city of Guam,

3:34:30without the specifics,

3:34:31because I just want to make sure

3:34:32that we don't run into an unintended consequence

3:34:36of the issues that are around the old Emiko site.

3:34:38Sure, okay, thanks.

3:34:40On question six, through you, Mayor Guthrie,

3:34:43I just, I'm looking for a little bit of clarity.

3:34:47What is staff's understanding of the advocacy piece?

3:34:52Were we just asked for operating funds

3:34:54or were we asked to support and ask for operating funds?

3:34:59So, unfortunately, we can't call the delegates back,

3:35:03but I think there's some confusion around what the ask is

3:35:07and I'm just wondering,

3:35:08what is staff's understanding of that?

3:35:14So through the Mayor of Councillor Clarke,

3:35:16you're talking the support of housing projects.

3:35:18So the ask has been for capital funding

3:35:21and we have funded capital

3:35:23through the Affordable Housing Fund itself

3:35:26and our RFP process.

3:35:27And then as you know, this past summer

3:35:29with the additional funding to Kindle.

3:35:30So it has not typically been the municipality's role

3:35:34to provide operating funding

3:35:36that generally has either been through the county as our CMSM

3:35:39or directly through the province,

3:35:41through the Ministry of,

3:35:43I would think Ministry of Health predominantly.

3:35:45And so I think that is why it is our recommendation

3:35:49that the city's role is in advocacy,

3:35:51in providing that advocacy,

3:35:54so that if there is a contingent,

3:35:55which I understand there is going to Queens Park

3:35:57to ask for funding,

3:35:58so operating funding,

3:36:00that the city's role would be in that advocacy

3:36:02to say we supported the capital,

3:36:04we support these projects,

3:36:05they're important to the community

3:36:06and therefore we're calling on the province to fund.

3:36:11And so, and I believe,

3:36:13and again, others behind me,

3:36:14I'm probably gonna mess this up,

3:36:16they can speak to it better.

3:36:17There is a mix of both funding that is,

3:36:20funding applications that are going directly

3:36:21as well as some that are going through the OHT.

3:36:24And so we can get you more details on that,

3:36:27but I don't believe there has not been,

3:36:30to my understanding,

3:36:31a request directly of the municipality

3:36:34for operational funding

3:36:36because it has been our historical practice

3:36:38that the municipality funds capital.

3:36:40Great, okay, thank you.

3:36:41I appreciate the clarity,

3:36:42because there's numbers floating in the air,

3:36:45there's no paper in front of us,

3:36:46and I think there's a lot of ambiguity there.

3:36:48So I really appreciate that clarity

3:36:50and really glad to hear that we're all working

3:36:52together on that.

3:36:54Through you Meg, I got through the last one,

3:36:56we're like all over the place on like advocacy and parking.

3:37:01With respect to number 12 on the fourplex,

3:37:05I'm glad to hear things will come back

3:37:07with some, you know, regulations and setbacks

3:37:09and those types of things.

3:37:11Planning staff, no, I'm thinking of one property in particular.

3:37:16Will the fourplexes be,

3:37:25will they be suitable for the surrounding environment?

3:37:29So Councillor Booth still asked the question a little bit.

3:37:33There are properties that might wanna put

3:37:34two or three tiny homes in the backyard, right?

3:37:38On lots that may or may not be suitable for that.

3:37:42So I am asking the question on behalf of

3:37:46my neighborhood that has this issue.

3:37:49So while I have no problem with, you know,

3:37:52a house being converted into four units

3:37:54or a brand new four store walk, four story walk up,

3:37:59we also wanna make sure the units are safe

3:38:03and are also, you know, for the residents as well.

3:38:08So this, I'm asking this question so poorly.

3:38:11Through you Margarh three tour planning staff,

3:38:13Ms. Wauke, can you help residents understand

3:38:17what that fourplex might mean in their neighborhood?

3:38:24Through Margarh three to the Councillor.

3:38:26So, you know, ultimately, I think they're gonna have to wait

3:38:29to January to find out exactly what that means

3:38:31and the details and we'll certainly advertise that

3:38:33and make sure, you know, you're aware of the date

3:38:35so that you can communicate that in your newsletters

3:38:38and everything else.

3:38:39And I think that is the best opportunity to look at it.

3:38:43But at this point, we are not looking

3:38:46at really changing the ARDU regulations.

3:38:49So the one in the rear yard is still our intent at this time.

3:38:54Thank you.

3:38:56I got Gibson and Karan.

3:39:00Margarh three.

3:39:02My question today is, it's a simple one.

3:39:05It's a philosophical one.

3:39:06It's on item one and a number of Councillors

3:39:09who have spoken to it is how much can municipality bear

3:39:12with our sort of regressive income tax,

3:39:14sorry, property tax collection system.

3:39:17We're not able to create a progressive tax system.

3:39:21It's simply based on a perceived home value.

3:39:24So we don't know what the family is earning

3:39:27or what kind of level of income they have,

3:39:29but they just happen to have a big house

3:39:31so they're gonna pay a lot more.

3:39:33So I wanna make sure that I just get a full understanding

3:39:37of the human rights-based approach to housing.

3:39:40I'm not opposed to it.

3:39:41Philosophically speaking, it sounds great.

3:39:43But financially speaking, there's a little,

3:39:45we're light on the details in our report

3:39:47that speaks about the financial impact.

3:39:50So I just, I think I want clarity from staff

3:39:55when it comes to taking a human rights-based approach

3:39:59who, what are we volunteering ourselves to acknowledge?

3:40:02What responsibilities are we taking on financially?

3:40:05Are we saying that we are the ones who will guarantee

3:40:10that human right to people, in which case,

3:40:13I'll just paint a picture.

3:40:14The more wealth you distribute,

3:40:17the longer your line gets from people who were otherwise,

3:40:19okay, you simply start dragging people down by their heels

3:40:23and that system doesn't work, that's never worked.

3:40:25So I think I just want to hear from staff

3:40:28that this is a philosophical approach to housing.

3:40:33I've always been a housing first person as well.

3:40:35Can't ask people to make good decisions with their lives

3:40:37without a safe, secure roof over their head.

3:40:40But I think I'd just like to hear staff

3:40:42speak about that a little bit more.

3:40:46So through the mayor to council Gibson,

3:40:48so certainly this language comes out

3:40:50of the collective results report.

3:40:52It was their recommendation that we consider

3:40:54a human rights-based approach to housing

3:40:57and there's a really good sort of segment from their report

3:41:00that I can send around that helps to summarize

3:41:04what it means to commit,

3:41:07to recognizing that there's a rights-based

3:41:11housing strategy needed.

3:41:14And it is about looking at what the principles are

3:41:18about non-discrimination, inclusion,

3:41:19participation and accountability.

3:41:21And that it is about making sure that it is,

3:41:25that the rights-based approach to housing

3:41:29is entrenched in everything that is done

3:41:31but at all levels of government.

3:41:33So I don't, it's certainly not, I think I can say,

3:41:36it is not my intention that this recommendation is saying,

3:41:39and that is the responsibility of the city of Guelph

3:41:42to be the one solving that.

3:41:44But I think we're saying that the city of Guelph

3:41:46agrees that housing is a human rights issue

3:41:50and that housing needs to come first

3:41:52and that we need to consider a human rights-based approach,

3:41:55which then needs to permeate through everything we do

3:41:57in our relations with the county

3:41:59in what we call on other levels of government

3:42:01to do both provincially and federally.

3:42:03Part of it is about tying it to

3:42:05the federal government's national housing strategy.

3:42:09It was within the federal government in June of 2021,