Permitted hours for fireworks be changed from “between 9 a.m. and 11:59 p.m.” to “between 9 a.m. and 11:00PM”

3:05:58left them we're going to do some council appointments we have the fireworks bylaw I hope that was

3:06:05dramatic enough for you how I said the title we are here to make a decision in regards to the

3:06:15fireworks bylaw that has not been updated in a very long time in the city and joining us

3:06:22are several delegations so I'd like to say this once so that everyone hears me just say it once

3:06:30you have if you're a delegation whether you're here in person or whether you're joining us

3:06:34uh online by phone or video you have no more than five minutes and clerks if I could just ask you

3:06:44that you will please turn off the microphones at the five minute mark if they're in the room or online

3:06:49because you have no more than five minutes you will hear a chime at the four minute and 30 second

3:06:55mark which gives you a heads up there's only 30 seconds left if you don't need the whole five

3:07:00minutes we're good with that too but you have up to five minutes and you can have the whole five

3:07:05minutes if that's what you're planned for once you're done your delegation just stick around for a

3:07:10moment because there might be a follow-up question from either myself or one of my colleagues okay

3:07:16if not we'll go on to the next one please forgive me in advance if I don't say your name correctly

3:07:22I will try my very best okay and correct me if I'm wrong so let's kick things off

3:07:30the first one we have I believe in person is uh Moe Markham from Waterloo Region Climate Initiatives

3:07:42and you are here so thank you very much for coming here I am here and uh whenever you're

3:07:48ready you can go right ahead and you're up to five minutes we'll start so go right ahead

3:07:52thank you um I want to thank you for working on this new bylaw for Guelph I recently delegated

3:07:59at the City of Kitchener's Council on the subject as well and I know that they're considering a

3:08:05ban too and they are also discussing the possibility of a ban with other local municipalities

3:08:12as a concerned citizen and a former resident of Guelph I hope that you do decide to ban them

3:08:18and I hope that you decide to ban them all together um outright uh while they are associated with

3:08:25celebration and joy their unregulated use poses significant safety hazards uh noise disturbances

3:08:32financial costs to cities and municipalities environmental concerns and disturbance and

3:08:38trauma to humans and pets and wildlife as I think most of us know I would also ask you

3:08:46to consider alternatives to public fireworks displays for these same reasons and I'll talk

3:08:51more about this later so the recent surge in firework related to incidents and dangerous

3:08:59activity in various municipalities including Kitchener and Waterloo have enhanced public

3:09:05awareness and understanding that stricter regulations need to be put in place for the

3:09:12well-being of residents and the preservation of our local ecosystems and the wild animals

3:09:18we share the planet with most of you are probably aware that there were near riots in and around

3:09:25Victoria Park in Kitchener when fireworks were thrown at passersby including at a child stroller

3:09:31and in Waterloo a city counselor a Waterloo city counselor was struck in the face with a

3:09:36firecracker when she was returning from the Waterloo Canada Day drone show I have lived in I'm sorry I

3:09:45have lived near various parks in Kitchener Waterloo and in Guelph and I've been woken up many many

3:09:53times at all hours of the night by fireworks as I'm sure anyone else who lives near parks has been

3:10:00and I've called a non-emergency number to report people letting off fireworks and keeping me up

3:10:06over and over again all night long and I know that police and bylaw simply can't keep up so there are

3:10:13many costs associated with fireworks personal public etc and we feel that these are too high

3:10:21personal costs loud and disruptive noise disturbed sleep on holidays and actually for days before and

3:10:28afterwards violence up to and including passersby adults and young children having firecrackers

3:10:35thrown at them financial costs specifically bylaw officers extra bylaw officers to attend when there

3:10:43issues police etc to show up at all at all hours and you know I think it's taking police away from

3:10:52other places that they're more needed the cost of cleanup and then of course more police when

3:11:01things get out of control there are also many human costs fireworks trigger people with PTSD

3:11:09with autism and other people who have issues with sensory overload an increasing number of people

3:11:17have been dealing with depression and anxiety since COVID as we know and since the cost of living

3:11:24has become impossible for so many and another reason some of the discussion you were having earlier

3:11:29about the tense cities fireworks also release harmful gases and chemicals which can irritate

3:11:37people's lungs and eyes there are also of course environmental costs they've been shown to contribute

3:11:44to water air and air pollution micro microplastic pollution as well they contain many toxic and

3:11:51damaging chemicals such as carbon monoxide sulfur dioxide perclerate and others and they've been

3:11:59responsible for starting fires in Canada and elsewhere when what we really need is to be

3:12:04putting out fires not risking more and of course there's the cost to our four-legged and feathered

3:12:10friends who leave their nests and they're young as I believe others will be discussing tonight

3:12:15I think public awareness is high now and a number of municipalities are considering

3:12:22bans and I'm glad that Gualf is doing that as well I would like you to consider alternatives

3:12:29drone shows etc and to think about quieter alternatives for people and I really appreciate

3:12:38that you're doing this I thank you so much for your time so it looks like I'm out of time although

3:12:49that didn't seem like five minutes to me but yeah it always seems faster sometimes but you did great

3:12:55thank you very much thank you just let me see if there's a follow-up nope there is not so thank

3:13:01you very much thank you okay uh will bear it it's will here no okay we're gonna skip over will

3:13:13how about Erica Hogan from Fat Boys Fireworks maybe joining us by video and I've just been told uh

3:13:27Erica that maybe you might need to turn your camera on if you're gonna join us by video

3:13:31there you are we see you and uh you're just still muted there oh now you're on yeah we can uh

3:13:39we could both hear you and see you so thank you very much for joining us uh I don't know if you

3:13:45heard earlier but you have up to five minutes there's a chime at the four minute 30 second mark

3:13:50then after that at the five minute we turn your microphone off don't let us get there okay uh so

3:13:55I'll turn it over to you awesome well first off thank you so much for allowing me this opportunity

3:14:00to council members and mayor and the community of Guelph my name is Erica Hogan and I am one of the

3:14:06franchise operators of Fat Boy Fireworks I've been telling fireworks I just want to give you a

3:14:10little backstory since I was 14 when I was working on paying my way through school to go to college

3:14:17I now own many businesses and because of that opportunity of learning a business I am where I

3:14:22am today I am also someone who conquers PTSD every day a mother of four beautiful children

3:14:30one that we get to hold well sorry three we get to hold that night and one that we had to say goodbye

3:14:35to when she passed in October 2020 fireworks I understand have many concerns and I am going to

3:14:42come on here and I do understand that there is issues with people who do not like fireworks the

3:14:49environment the concerns with pets and people who like myself who do have PTSD and I would also

3:14:55like to state that there's other ways to go about this with me for example with my locations that I

3:15:01do sell fireworks we have kid and pet friendly fireworks which means that there are low noise

3:15:06options and the colors and the sounds are reduced now other things that I think that we need to

3:15:13possibly have an opportunity to educate on is this is a bylaw issue the police should not be called

3:15:19and what I know in other municipalities where we do run locations is bylaw only works Monday

3:15:26through Friday 9 to 5 so bylaw isn't able to make these opportunities for fines to actually show

3:15:33presence and people are calling police and we are using up those resources that shouldn't be used

3:15:38off of a firework call which I do agree with now I would love to have the opportunity to explore

3:15:44why don't we have bylaw on rotation during the bylaw hours to have these concerns and calls for

3:15:51example from the last delegation who has called because you are getting woken up in the middle

3:15:57of the night which is not what we're supposed to do but I think banning something that is used for

3:16:02example for me and my family is my kids like to get a firework off for my daughter who passed

3:16:07because my kids tell me all the time that's the closest gift that they can get to piper and that

3:16:12to them is how they say hi or celebrate and we do it within obviously bylaw days and stuff but that

3:16:19one special firework is made for them and as a business there is repercussions I had a store

3:16:28in Woodstock that was closed down because of a firework bylaw and to be honest I lost all that

3:16:35income I had to sell my house my husband and I had to revisit our finances we had to stop putting

3:16:40money into the community that we donate to and the businesses that we support when we were there

3:16:46selling did notice a decrease whether that's restaurants that's people coming in from other

3:16:51towns doing their shopping there there's a lot of repercussion action that we have to think about

3:16:56I understand the noise and the safety is one concern but I truly believe by reevaluating

3:17:02the bylaw and the officers that are supposed to be taking care of this and being there

3:17:09that should be the first thing that we look at now I am open to questions I know you have a lot of

3:17:14delegations ahead of you and I don't want to waste any more time because I truly appreciate the

3:17:18opportunity that you've given me to at least put a little bit of hopefully knowledge and maybe a

3:17:24little education behind fireworks that there is more than just noise and a danger and maybe we

3:17:31could reevaluate and look at those avenues first before stopping something that is truly loved

3:17:36by at least 50 percent of communities around so once again thank you so much for the time I'm

3:17:42coming in under five minutes and once again thank you okay thank you Erica appreciate your presentation

3:17:50to us let me see if there's a follow-up for you there is not so thank you again and have a good

3:17:57rest of the night okay thank you again for your time have a great evening you as well

3:18:03all right I think next is in person uh Girdy Ratan is Girdy here no okay

3:18:13how about over the phone uh Bavik Kumar Roshi my apologies my apologies mr. Mayor we've been

3:18:23unable to get a hold of that delegate so we'll keep drawing a couple more times okay we'll jump back

3:18:26then all right so how about by video uh Harman Gill oh you're here in person you're even better than

3:18:34video real life that's great welcome Harman am I saying your name right yes you are okay perfect

3:18:51welcome thank you for having us go right go right ahead whenever you're ready we're a steam council

3:18:55thank you for having us I actually own Fabway fireworks we're one of Canada's largest retailers

3:19:00of family fireworks in Canada we're the only inter-provincial fireworks company out there

3:19:05so because of that we have the luxury and the privilege of working with councils fire departments

3:19:11and city bylaws to address these concerns and I've heard I've been doing this for 20 years um and

3:19:18I've seen a lot heard a lot and I see what works and what doesn't work so I'll get to what I'm trying

3:19:24to say so I'm here to discuss why banning personal use fireworks may not be the best path forward

3:19:30for the city of Guelph and why improving enforcement and existing bylaws rather than

3:19:34implementing a full ban could better address the concerns around fireworks in our community

3:19:39a complete ban enforced through a restrictive permit system would essentially end a personal

3:19:44use fireworks for residents as permits would be available only to professional technicians

3:19:50with insurance however in practice most licensed technicians do not carry their own insurance

3:19:57that makes it virtually impossible for individual residents to obtain permits for personal

3:20:01celebrations this creates a barrier to enjoyment that is overly restrictive and unnecessary

3:20:07when better solutions are available instead Guelph should look to Mississauga's approach as a model

3:20:13Mississauga has retained the ability for residents to use personal fireworks while implementing a

3:20:18strict enforcement policy they've introduced significant penalties with fines of up to 100

3:20:24thousand dollars for those who misuse fireworks or violate the city's bylaws this way responsible

3:20:30residents who follow the rules can still celebrate holidays safely while those who misuse fireworks

3:20:36face heavy consequences this balanced approach has allowed Mississauga to address misuse without

3:20:43resorting to a total ban and it encourages people to act responsibly while still allowing for personal

3:20:48holiday celebrations I'm a resident of the city of Brampton and we've also so I've seen all the

3:20:54ups and downs in Brampton we've also seen Brampton's experience that bans do not necessarily decrease

3:21:00fireworks complaints in fact they may have the opposite effect after Brampton's ban residents

3:21:06who still wanted fireworks simply purchased them outside of the city or ordered them online

3:21:11this workaround has driven fireworks use underground making it more difficult to monitor and enforce

3:21:17safety standards rather than eliminating the problem the ban has inadvertently increased

3:21:21enforcement challenges and complaints the city of Brampton has seen in complaints skyrocket after

3:21:27the ban there's been more fires and houses due to improper disposal because people are scared to

3:21:32get fined and the problem hasn't been solved it's actually gotten way worse in in Guelphs forcing

3:21:41in Guelphs forcing the stronger penalties and educating residents and responsible fireworks

3:21:47use would be a more effective approach this would give law enforcement the power to address

3:21:52those who misuse fireworks without penalizing everyone or restricting the joy that personal

3:21:57fireworks can bring to holiday celebrations it concludes the proposed permit system ban

3:22:02may seem like a solution but evidence like from cities like Brampton that shows that bans can

3:22:08drive fireworks use underground and make enforcement much harder Guelph can balance safely

3:22:13safety and enjoyment by retaining personal fireworks under use strict guidelines and impose

3:22:18severe penalties like still seen in missisaga for misuse let's ensure that responsible residents

3:22:24can still continue to enjoy their festivities safely while those who violate the rules are held

3:22:30accountable thank you for your consideration and i can answer any questions anybody might have

3:22:35thank you very much for your presentation let me just check okay i do have one from council or

3:22:41buildings please yes through you mr maire i just wanted to ask because you mentioned missisaga

3:22:47as an example um so do you know do they have an appropriate safe discharge distance you know set

3:22:55backs from schools residential properties do you know if if that's in place so uh off the top of my

3:23:02head i do not know what their exact distance are set the setbacks are but i do know that um

3:23:09their legal dates legal times then people are allowed to use at home um and there are like even

3:23:16if like you shop at one of our stores um we ask how much space you have and we can direct

3:23:22product like that's safe for you to use if you got space we can get you like bigger fireworks

3:23:27and if you're in a smaller space we can recommend you fireworks you could safely use i don't know

3:23:32what missisaga's exact rule is for distance wise however um however i know that what they're trying

3:23:40to do is they're trying to just get rid of the nuisance get rid of the after hours get rid of

3:23:44the days that are not legal and the best way to do that is penalize those who are creating like

3:23:51creating the nuisance versus penalizing those who are safely using because the people who are gonna

3:23:56like break the rules they're gonna break them no matter why whereas people who are safely law

3:24:01biting they're the ones who are gonna be like okay now i can't do them anymore and that's what's

3:24:06happening in brampton whereas like i live in brampton i hear fireworks every single day and

3:24:10they're not even buying them from us i don't know where they're getting it from like i've seen

3:24:14500 gram cakes going off in them on a thursday night and you can't buy those like at any of our

3:24:20shops like we don't sell them where they're getting from they're just turning to a different market

3:24:25okay so last question to show you your worship of course okay because you don't know missisaga's

3:24:31requirements but if you're you were selling and it's just an average size backyard you've got

3:24:36neighbors around you so what is that safe safe or discharge distance is it like 30 meters 40 meters

3:24:44do you even have an idea i do have an idea actually like so like any like ground effects fireworks

3:24:52you could get away with 10 feet and it's safe to use so we have fountains that you can use in a 15

3:24:56meter difference and we have fireworks that you need 60 meter regulations uh every single

3:25:01firework that we carry which is canady federally regulated by the erd um has safe distances right

3:25:07on the package so it's not only on the consumer like if you go to any of our stores our staff is

3:25:13regulated our staff is educated to teach the consumer educate the consumer and answer any

3:25:19questions like to like i have i have a 15 foot space what can i use okay you can only use ground

3:25:25spinner sparklers and at most maybe a roma candle okay thanks for help you're welcome council or work

3:25:32then councillor Busuttil uh through you margathry to the delegate i'm just curious uh do you at your

3:25:38locations or do you know of cities where the the salesperson at the point of sale is required to

3:25:45provide the local information these are the days these are the hours here's some safety information

3:25:51yes every city that provides it we have them on site so all of our most cities um depending on the

3:25:57permitting system we get inspected by some cities we get inspected by bylaw and fire some is just fire

3:26:03but any city that requires any documentations we do provide it like for example like in the

3:26:09city of toronto we're selling fireworks right now for the wally in the city of toronto you need a

3:26:13permit to set up fireworks for the wally however you don't need a permit for victoria and canady

3:26:19why that doesn't make sense to me however that's how it is so we do have documentation at the tail

3:26:25at the till that goes into every bag that has each city's rules and regulations and it also has the

3:26:31penalties involved if you're not abiding by those rules so through you margathry do you happen to

3:26:35know if the city of golf is doing that now uh at the top of my head i do not believe the city of

3:26:40golf is doing that okay thanks and councillor Busuttil yes thank you um and through the mayor

3:26:46you were talking about rules and regulations and point of sale i'm just curious when you sell

3:26:52fireworks do you ask the purchaser if their home insurance allows backyard fireworks

3:26:58but that is not a question we ask ourselves no that is it yes thank you all right thank you

3:27:08very much for coming appreciate it all right next i believe in person is alex chichoni

3:27:16alex here yep so your front row keener

3:27:22thank you very much for coming back i believe so thank you very much alex and i'll turn over to

3:27:27you go right ahead thank you margathry and thanks again for council for considering this and thanks

3:27:31for staff for all your hard work in putting together materials i just wanted to first um

3:27:36briefly respond to a question that councillor or work i believe raised at the last meeting which

3:27:40was the split between the amount of consumer versus professional fireworks my understanding

3:27:45in canada is it depends on the year but it's anywhere from 50 to 90 percent consumer side

3:27:51so more consumer fireworks for sure are sold so i hope that answers the question from last time

3:27:58in terms of my presentation tonight just as a very brief reminder my background is i practice

3:28:04environmental municipal law and i do a little bit of pro bono animal law work to the side

3:28:09i won't go over my whole presentation last time because of course maybe the whole was was here

3:28:14um but last time i spoke about sort of three heads of concerns with fireworks there's the

3:28:19environmental um there's the impacts on humans and then there's the impact on animals so i see

3:28:27that saff has put forward and council is considering a proposal that would see a permitting system

3:28:32which i think is a huge huge improvement i absolutely support that approach as i'll go into i think

3:28:37that the city can consider going a bit further than that um but i think it's already a big improvement

3:28:43it was a little bit unclear to me as to whether this would include a ban on the sale of consumer

3:28:48fireworks because that wasn't in the memo prepared by staff but i would support a ban on the sale of

3:28:53consumer fireworks as well um a permitting system would be a massive improvement it addresses a lot

3:29:01of the nuisance type claims that we see right um the kind of things that miss marcom spoke up

3:29:07including uh people shooting each other with roman candles and that kind of thing um it also reduces

3:29:13the amount of uh noise that is happening outside of the previously regulated windows right so

3:29:20previously if you could light fireworks on canada day you'd see a lot of them the day before the

3:29:24day after a few days before and after that kind of thing so that's a huge improvement however i think

3:29:30the city should consider an outright ban and the reason is because a ban on the consumer use or in

3:29:37other words a permitting system while it does address a lot of these um nuisance concerns

3:29:42it doesn't address some of the more fundamental concerns and i'll just give you two examples

3:29:49the the first is the uh the risk that it has on animals for example we see uh that the the majority

3:29:56of dogs and cats are afraid of fireworks this impacts hundreds and thousands of animals in the

3:30:01city um industrial-grade fireworks the ones that are likely to be subject to permits are quite a

3:30:08lot louder right we're talking about the difference between maybe 120 decibels for consumer a little

3:30:13bit less sometimes and closer to 150 decibels and it's a logarithmic scale right it's a lot louder

3:30:19um it also is the industrial side fireworks that result in the death of canada geese and other

3:30:25migratory birds typically not consumer fireworks so a permitting system helps but it doesn't address

3:30:31those um issues the second one of course is PTSD and i do appreciate that one of the previous

3:30:37delegates says that she has PTSD and manages that i don't know if it's related to out bangs or not all

3:30:43sorts of different kinds of PTSD um but people who have PTSD really do suffer from these so

3:30:49the the decision that the city is facing i don't mean to put it so bluntly but is are we going to

3:30:55put sort of the joy and happiness that some people experience through fireworks myself included

3:31:01i love fireworks there are a lot of fun i used to light a lot of fireworks when i was a kid

3:31:05but that's the trade-off right this versus the known harm that um animals are going to experience

3:31:11the almost certain death that some animals are going to experience um and the environmental impact

3:31:17from fireworks so i guess i would close by saying what the proposal on the table is a huge

3:31:22improvement and i support it i'm really glad that council's considering it i think staff are

3:31:27putting it together and i think the city has the opportunity to go a bit further if they really

3:31:31wanted to consider the impacts on on animals and human health so with that i'm happy to answer

3:31:39any questions and thank you so much for your time uh thanks for coming back again alex and

3:31:44thank you for your presentation is there any follow-up for alex not this time so thank you very

3:31:50much thank you so much is uh warren dresing here from uh kipra media group yes see someone coming

3:31:58down here uh welcome warren dre thank you very much for coming it's over to you it's an honor to be

3:32:13here uh mr mayor council the clerks uh police fire chief um so my name is warren dresing they

3:32:21call me bender in the community um i wear many different types of turbans in different colors

3:32:27because uh i represent some faith groups the seek religion uh sports culture community everything

3:32:35and i do a lot of community outreach for the last 35 40 years um why i'm here today is because i

3:32:41want to give you guys a perspective it a lot um there's a lot of yes we want to ban things and

3:32:48then we want to then we think should we have done that so i'll give you an example of brampton right

3:32:55now um we in canada right now facing a massive immigration influx right now and it's from different

3:33:02different communities different backgrounds as wealth is changing too um now when we're doing

3:33:09personal fireworks yes yeah you've probably saw some of the videos uh that happen in in

3:33:15malton mississauga i was the one that was cleaning the next day so uh even being in the media and

3:33:21everything um there's a there's how i see everything right now it's a time of education

3:33:30there's a lot of new canadians they don't know the rules and the regulations uh i work very closely

3:33:37with a lot of municipalities all three levels of government and it's all about education the bylaw

3:33:43officers are so overburden they will not be able to handle it they can't brampton yes they took an

3:33:49emotional thing but now guess what the city is allowing uh the hindu temple there was 50 000 people

3:33:56there and that was a half an hour to a fireworks show um on the this week again the city of brampton

3:34:06is doing another duwali festival right that's going to have fireworks too so the city now the

3:34:12municipalities are the ones who are going to be picking up the cause we had the drone shows

3:34:17half of these drone shows are coming into their own problems now like you see in caledon um i was

3:34:23with uh the mayor olivia chow on the weekend for a two-day duwali festival there was a hundred

3:34:28thousand people there and they had a fireworks show so a lot of uh yes we we we are coming into

3:34:36new issues and and we also have a uh you know we have an age difference we have a generation

3:34:43difference but a lot of uh like when say we look at back home in india right now fireworks are normal

3:34:51they're there for all your festivals your religious functions your uh independence days and everything

3:34:57so i think more it should be the the municipalities should have uh penalized the individuals that do

3:35:03wrong because then then the cities and the municipalities or the or the levels of government

3:35:10are the ones who are going to be burdened because the communities want something to do

3:35:15and we're looking at fireworks uh what six times a year throughout the year that we have six major

3:35:23things but now you look at uh even halloween halloween has been out over shadow shadow this year by

3:35:29duwali and and like like so the previous guy said i deal with the city of brampton um the

3:35:35complaints are up the fireworks are going daily now every wedding function we have to you know

3:35:41fireworks going off bylaw cannot handle the load anymore it it should be penalizing the people that

3:35:48do wrong not the families the kids they they can't even pick up the streamers anymore and a lot of

3:35:54the places of worship are being asked by these new canadians and or you know even the kids that we

3:35:59want to do fireworks like we used to do when i was growing up but the places of worship they're

3:36:04financially strapped where they can't pay for this anymore so uh you know i wanted to give you a

3:36:12different type of perspective that once we rush into something right i think there's more to it

3:36:17like there's cultural issues there's uh growing forward as municipalities right these type of

3:36:22burdens i mean i remember you guys see cbc hockey night in punjabi where you're looking at the

3:36:27individual that created that when i brought oh hl hockey you know punjabi to the oh hl um i still

3:36:34with them but it's all about education so i mean make the story if the sellers they're they need to

3:36:42educate and then the municipality sorry okay so again um like to thank you for your time um

3:36:51you know i just think that you know there's more to this instead of just you know uh fireworks

3:36:56going on and off you know i mean i know people complain but people are complaining about everything

3:37:00but there's more to it you know as the communities are growing day by day so thank you very kindly

3:37:09thank you very much for your presentation appreciate it uh and let me see if there's a

3:37:13follow-up for you there is not thank you for bringing punjabi to hockey thank you that's great

3:37:21thank you for coming i believe in person our next delegation is uh priam uh yes and i'm so sorry

3:37:30if i'm not saying that right but uh come on down welcome did i say your name right yeah that was

3:37:45right hey all right perfect all right go right ahead so good evening everybody uh today i want to

3:37:51address the city of golf's consideration of change in fireworks by law with permit only

3:37:58so now i was just reading the memo that was on golf's website available and in the follow-up

3:38:04question it says the permit fees 208 only but it also says that somebody require insurance as well

3:38:12animal safety management a licensed display supervisor and they also give a link to fireworks

3:38:17operator certification and special event process so for an individual to obtain that license it

3:38:24takes a lot of money and a lot of time so now we have fixed permit fee of 200 the insurance

3:38:33is going to cost somebody around 1000 to 2000 the animal safety management it says that it can be

3:38:39void if everything's good the license display supervisor they do not even get out of their bed

3:38:44for less than 5000 so now if somebody's spending 8 to 10 thousand dollars just to do permits and

3:38:52regulator things and over to top now they need fireworks to use in that permit right so if i'm

3:39:00spending 8 thousand dollar to just obtain a permit do i'm gonna do a small show obviously not i'm

3:39:06gonna do a big show right and that big show people gonna use the professional grade firework to

3:39:13justify their headache hassle and all the process they've been through our main motive in the last

3:39:20meeting was to reduce noise reduce pollution this and that right once this kind of fire the

3:39:26professional fireworks are in they do more noise they go more higher they require more safety

3:39:32procedures too the same thing city of prempton they bend the fireworks city said no problem

3:39:37we'll do fireworks for you what happens there was more complaints about cities firework so

3:39:45and like people gonna complain for this and that and we cannot keep everybody happy for sure too

3:39:51right so that's it for me i'll be happy to answer any follow-up questions and that license really

3:39:57takes a lot of money and a lot of time thank you well thank thank you very much for your presentation

3:40:03and let me see if there's a follow-up for you thank you for your information there there is not but

3:40:09again thank you so much appreciate it uh amanda tanner is next joining us i believe by video

3:40:17through you mr. mayor we don't have amanda tanner or the following delegate jordan the next

3:40:22delegate we have available is prash sony all right thank you uh prash i believe you're joining us by

3:40:30video so we'll just see if you can turn your camera on there and we'll wait for you we do have the

3:40:50delegate prash joined um prash you just need to either unmute or turn on your video in order to

3:40:56delegate we'll just give you a minute to do that there we go yes hello uh prash it's it's uh mayor

3:41:06guthrie we we can both hear uh and see you so thank you for joining us okay we'll turn it over to you

3:41:14to do your presentation go right ahead wonderful honorable mayor thank you so much and respected

3:41:19council members big namaste from me my name is prash sony i am the executive director for a

3:41:24non-profit organization here called hindu legacy in london ontario and london's gone through

3:41:30something very similar to what wealth is going through which is you know the the debate around

3:41:35backyard fireworks now it is you know just just please um realize that all my comments are respectful

3:41:44and i'm all about safety uh we are all about safety in fact uh in london i think i just want to

3:41:50impress with one of couple of points and not to reiterate what has been so eloquently presented

3:41:55the we work very closely with the fire department with the mayor with the city council and and the

3:42:01cnfa as well and we have very successfully uh done a fireworks awareness awareness and safety

3:42:09campaign in london and as a result of that over the last two years despite the you know despite

3:42:16them despite certain factions wanting to close them down they have actually we have had a very

3:42:21successful diwali celebration with backyard fireworks and i think um the the the idea of

3:42:28enforcement is difficult uh london currently has close to 15 000 people of indian origin many of

3:42:35them are hindus and it is going to become a sort of a mini brampton problem over here so i think

3:42:41that's going to be a big issue no matter what position we take and i think that goes for wealth

3:42:47the other the other angle i think that the other point i'd like to add is backyard fireworks

3:42:54is like the core of diwali and now that we have over a million hindus in canada and if if there's

3:43:04one thing that unifies hindus all across the planet it's diwali and if you take diwali if you take

3:43:10the sweets out of diwali if you take the family gatherings out of diwali if you take the backyard

3:43:15fireworks out of diwali you you in essence have inadvertently destroyed an eight here 800 year old

3:43:22tradition um now that said i think the other gentleman from brampton said it very eloquently

3:43:30the average sale and he can probably be more you know expert you know actual data but in london the

3:43:36average family that we know and we know about 1200 to 1300 families the average spend on fireworks

3:43:42is about $50 they're doing roman candles or they're doing the fountains they're just doing it for

3:43:49about 15 20 minutes and that's we are done so i think we definitely agree that there are some

3:43:54rogue elements and for those rogue elements if we penalize an entire community i mean this is really

3:44:02this is very this will hurt the community a lot and i think it canada is all about diversity it's

3:44:08all about religious acceptance and i and i think this is the one thing when it comes to hindu

3:44:12festivals that this is actually a very important thing so you know that and we have through hindu

3:44:18legacy we've actually done a report on air quality on the aqy index we have objective data about that

3:44:24we have we have 15 psychiatrists who have created who have talked about ptsd and again in no way

3:44:32trying to be disrespectful about what is going on we have noise studies and we have a lot of things

3:44:37and i think so so my plea would be this that the gentleman talked about how you know the the permitting

3:44:44process is in in essence it's a showstopper for any backyard fireworks and i think the key is there

3:44:51are always pockets of people who are rogue elements that ruin it for the rest of the crowd so i would

3:44:57highly encourage i would i would plea to the city of guelph to reconsider this and to let the backyard

3:45:06fireworks be and take london as a model of how we can do safety campaigns and education

3:45:12and we are very much closely linked to the authorities that we will help them identify

3:45:17any rogue elements to ensure that we keep this privilege so that is my statement and again i

3:45:23really appreciate the time to let me speak and thank you so much namaste oh thank you so much for

3:45:31your presentation as well let me see if there's a follow-up from my colleagues here doesn't look

3:45:35like it there is not but again thank you for joining us now we have next uh sarah rozenberg

3:45:45from e g canada ink i think joining us by phone and sarah if you can hear me it's mayor guthrie you

3:45:55just need to hit star six to be able to unmute yeah can you hear me yes you're coming through

3:46:03oh okay great yeah thank you um thank you all right you can go right ahead yeah thank you

3:46:11yes thank you um so yeah thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak today um i operate a

3:46:16fireworks business located at 183 silver creek parkway north in guelph um and i was present at the

3:46:22last council meeting regarding the proposed fireworks ban um i just want to express my

3:46:27concerns about the process and the potential consequences of this decision and you know i do

3:46:32apologize if it's a bit repetitive i know that there's some people that have gone before me

3:46:36um if i listen to the council's discussion in that meeting i wish i could chime in to help

3:46:42during the debate a number of questions and uncertainties came up regarding fireworks displays

3:46:47prior kept license processes and since possible along along with my colleagues i have many years

3:46:53of experience in the industry and in a unique position to answer these questions and to help

3:46:57develop practical strategies for the future you know you may object that as a stakeholder in the

3:47:02industry i have an agenda and i'm concerned with my livelihood um and that is true i i this is my

3:47:08main source of income and it has been for my family for the past 14 years um but i've also been

3:47:13witness in in my years too many strategies adopted by different councils and i have seen what works

3:47:17and what does not work and what has positive consequences for communities and what has resulted

3:47:22in unwanted ones uh we in the industry have valuable practical knowledge and how the council's

3:47:26proposal may succeed or fail and what it will mean for our community if it is adopted in its current form

3:47:33uh i'm simply asking this the council consider these implications

3:47:37who they impact and conduct further research and alternatives before deciding on a blanket ban

3:47:42banning fireworks would have serious consequences for canadian small businesses um the fireworks

3:47:47industry is one of the few remaining entirely canadian-owned and operated industries left in

3:47:52canada and after companies proud to be a canadian small business we provide employment for university

3:47:57students during key seasons keeping them in wealth over the summer and equipping them with valuable

3:48:02entrepreneurial skills they can use to enrich this community and go forward in their lives

3:48:07if this ban goes forward it will directly harm businesses and employees rely on this income

3:48:12without adequately addressing any identified safety concerns uh i want to use an example actually of

3:48:19um different cnl right banned and unintended consequences so if you consider prohibition in

3:48:25the early 20th century which initially reduced alcohol consumption by 30 to 50 percent uh it

3:48:30did actually lead to a surge in illegal production organized crime and health risks from unregulated

3:48:35alcohol by contrast education focused initiatives like mothers against drunk driving have proved

3:48:41to be far more effective so mad achieved a lasting 50 reduction in drunk driving fatalities for

3:48:48awareness public education and targeted laws so rather than attempting to ban alcohol outright

3:48:55it's it's it's been proven that having effective education was a much better solution

3:49:03education strategies are far more successful at addressing risky behaviors and minimizing

3:49:07negative consequences than outright thank it look like a ban an educational approach to fireworks

3:49:13could yield similar results our industry is already subject to federal regulations and we

3:49:17could build on these by enhancing our promotion of safe and responsible fireworks use this would

3:49:21involve working together to raise awareness about safety guidelines establish designated

3:49:26times and places for fireworks use and provide training for those purchasing consumer products

3:49:31such measures would mitigate concerns while preserving the benefits that fireworks bring to

3:49:35local businesses and community events i truly don't believe we should ban things due to a

3:49:40small percentage of people who abuse their usage uh you know today it's fireworks but what's next

3:49:46loud music candles alcohol we as an industry have a commitment to education and if you remove

3:49:51our presence by banning fireworks and you have effectively removed a centralized education

3:49:55resource to the public on how to safely and responsibly use fireworks and i'm certain that

3:50:00this will lead to an increase in use of fireworks because they can still have a chance right to their

3:50:05doors uh or they can go outside the community and purchase them and bring them home i urge the

3:50:09council to consider this alternative path so instead of banning fireworks outright let's take

3:50:13a collaborative approach to address any safety issues consulting with experts and educating the

3:50:18public would not only be more effective but would also protect small businesses that contribute to

3:50:22our local economy economy and provide valuable jobs we should ensure that decisions are made

3:50:28based on comprehensive evidence and involve those who will be directly impacted the fireworks industry

3:50:33is a significant part of our cultural celebration and supports Canadian livelihoods with small

3:50:38businesses already facing so many challenges every single year the last thing we need is a

3:50:42decision that could undermine one of the few remaining Canadian owned industries let's not

3:50:46resort to bans when there are better proven methods for addressing public safety and community concern

3:50:51and if you have any questions i'm happy to address them but thank you so much for your time

3:50:58thank you so much Sarah we appreciate you joining us tonight thank you for making the time let me

3:51:03see if there is any questions there is oh there is one Sarah if you could just hang on it's councillor

3:51:10Gibson please go ahead yeah thank you through mr. mayor mr. mayor thank you Sarah a great

3:51:15delegation i guess i've been meaning to ask this question for a while and i just want to give you

3:51:20a few more minutes to talk about it it doesn't feel like we are going to be to me anyway it doesn't

3:51:27feel like we're going to be getting rid of the the nuisance fireworks folks that just set them off at

3:51:3211 30 12 o'clock at night and to me it feels like we're really targeting the sort of the law abiding

3:51:39folks here and we're still going to have those nuisance people doing doing their thing is that

3:51:44is that a safe assessment is that sort of what you've been getting at yeah i think that um really

3:51:52we should be focusing on education initiatives i think a lot of citizens are people that are

3:51:56misusing them are just not educated on how to use them properly and so we worked with other

3:52:01like in Toronto i know that my colleagues have worked with the city to hand out brochures letting

3:52:07them know what the exact bylaws date like where they can safely light fireworks the times that they

3:52:13can say to that because i don't think many people know that and so we'd be willing to work with

3:52:17wealth in the same capacity where we you know can even we would even pay for this ourselves we could

3:52:23draw up pamphlets but go over the different bylaws that you guys have put in place and any other

3:52:28safety initiatives you have um and i think i just think it's education i really don't think it has

3:52:35anything to do with you know them being legal um i just don't think that they know when and how

3:52:42they can use them safely thank you and i don't think there's anybody else so sarah thank you again

3:52:51for bringing your presentation to us okay great thank you so much again for your time and have a

3:52:58wonderful meeting yes you as well thank you um i believe in person is tom jacob's from rocket fireworks

3:53:06right in the front row so thank you tom come on down and welcome i'll turn it over to you thank you

3:53:16very much for having me uh so i think we've all been talking about education but education is

3:53:22is a paramount importance very important but i think you also need the teeth to back it up so with

3:53:27programs like mad which sarah mentioned quite rightly education was a huge component but you

3:53:33also had pretty strong finds to back up that education into and to root out people who like the

3:53:38people who were who were engaging in the behavior in the illegitimate behavior so we do have missus

3:53:45auga who made a hundred they have a fine up to a hundred thousand dollars um and i think in the

3:53:51last meeting it was mentioned that you you would look to other communities you couldn't do something

3:53:54unique and totally novel and you would and it couldn't be totally outside the bounds of say what a

3:53:59neighboring community might do and our industry we're all for making a huge fine i agree with the

3:54:06counselor and we just raised the point that uh you know there's a good people who good families

3:54:11who do fireworks with their little kids in good communities and they bring everyone together and

3:54:15it's an amazing time of celebration and then we have the jerks who you know and it we were all

3:54:21young ones and maybe some you know some people some of them are the same people that go to the park

3:54:24and play loud music uh you know all night and it keeps me up around my house but so it's not always

3:54:30fireworks um but the thing is if we need to send a very strong message so if we do adopt a strong

3:54:38fine like that i say why not make the fine a hundred thousand dollars we need to send a message to

3:54:43people that it's not acceptable a lot of the comments um and i think a lot of the reason for us

3:54:48being here is because there's rampant uh there has been rampant use which accelerated a lot uh

3:54:54under covid and it is actually on the decline but there's too much use outside the specified days

3:55:00and i think if we could keep this to two or three days where families celebrated victoria day

3:55:05canada day to wally and it was the good people who are completely behaved and who are open and

3:55:11receptive to education then we would have something and the problem is that we have usage

3:55:16outside these days but we have to send a strong message as a community and you know through the

3:55:21course it's not tolerated and if we need to make an example of people we should make an example of

3:55:25them but the 500 dollar fine or a thousand dollar fine just doesn't cut it so we've been doing this

3:55:31a long time we've worked with a lot of councils and we've seen uh cities that where things have

3:55:36worked very effectively and we've seen uh cities that uh where their initiatives have not worked

3:55:41so uh i would say by the way an answer to another question that was raised mrs saga the distance

3:55:48is 26 feet eight meters from trees or houses residences or combustibles that's the distance

3:55:55that they use um okay and just to mention a few of the other points so people it's true that people

3:56:03who are using fireworks illegally or illegitimately they're not going to stop um so having a ban and

3:56:10making something illegal that people are going to engage in anyway it's not going to help but it

3:56:14as i said it does end up punishing the regular people so you don't want to drive sales underground

3:56:20because it just that's a dangerous activity and with my strong message of advocating for heavy fines

3:56:28again the education comes into it we have to teach people that um you know that we work with the

3:56:35the cfna we'll work with the uh we'll work with the city and we'll promote education which we want

3:56:41we want to limit the use we want we don't want this ramp in usage because we know that in the end

3:56:47it's a life is a compromise right it's what some people like fireworks some people don't maybe it's

3:56:5350 50 here in wealth maybe it's 60 40 but you don't you can't uh you can't just eliminate everything

3:56:59so we think with if we can take steps and measures to limit it to two or three days then i think we

3:57:06have something that's fair for the people who want it and fair for the people who don't and that's

3:57:11all i have to say today thank you very much for your time and if you have any questions

3:57:14i've been in the industry for many years and i'd be happy to answer them thank you

3:57:20knowing the distance of the missus socopila made us all think that you've probably been doing this

3:57:24for a long time so that was obvious right away thank you very much let me see if there is a follow-up

3:57:32there oh there is one uh councillor chugh go right ahead through you mr mayor are you mentioned

3:57:38there are initiatives and other cities that have worked can you elaborate on that for us

3:57:42yeah um so some cities like for example edmonton uh was a city that had some problems in the head

3:57:49and they worked very closely with cfna to have like uh the cfna as a license uh licenses retailers

3:57:57so that so the long-term stakeholders like us who who you know this is our profession and livelihood

3:58:03and you're around livelihood we know what we're doing so we can it's easy for us to educate and

3:58:08it's in our interest to educate but sometimes you have so you have a convenience store selling

3:58:14something and uh they don't know much about the product and so we have see it cfna was licensing

3:58:21vendors so that they could educate them in advance and say you know it's not safe to hold this product

3:58:26in your hand and you need to know a bit about this product before you sell it and that was very

3:58:30effective and then some other cities we've yet to see what this high fine will do in mississauga but

3:58:36i do have high hopes for that one because if you show that you're willing to prosecute and that the

3:58:40fines are heavy i think you will send a strong message to people that the community doesn't

3:58:45accept it thank you for your question great and thank you very much from your presentation take

3:58:52care thank you so much thank you all right uh david calder is david here yep i see someone coming

3:58:59down here by the way thanks everyone we're moving we're moving through the list so appreciate it

3:59:09uh david welcome i'll turn it over to you thank you i just want to give you my experiences 20 years

3:59:16living in guelph and every victoria day uh in our backyard except for one year in quivud we've

3:59:21always had a fire we've always had a fireworks show uh for me personally it was uh something that as a

3:59:27child when we moved to canada my dad started that off with victoria day and i still remember those

3:59:32fireworks in amazement um it was just something where we had our neighbors and it was a sense of

3:59:38community so when we moved to guelph for my young children it was an opportunity to bring the

3:59:43neighbors together to celebrate and meet and for 20 years we've been doing for 20 years we've been

3:59:50doing that and i will say on our street for many of the new neighbors the victoria day

3:59:57celebration of fireworks is the first time they actually meet the main the neighbors so it is an

4:00:02opportunity to build it is an opportunity to build a community um in that 20 years those young

4:00:09children that came um are now coming back they're driving across the city and they're bringing friends

4:00:16to our house okay the show has continued to grow bigger and bigger and bigger and the community

4:00:22has got bigger and bigger and bigger every year there'll be people when i when we're done the show

4:00:27i'll walk up on the deck and there'll be people i've never met before and and i think that's just

4:00:33absolutely wonderful and i think that's something that the city should be trying to promote um

4:00:40ban is my next door neighbor so i'll tell you a little story about ban um one one victoria day

4:00:47um his family went camping and then on the monday i'm looking out and i put all away the the the

4:00:53discarded fireworks and they're all out in our backyard again and there's ban lying on his back

4:00:58i said ban what are you doing and he says i'm envisioning what the show would have been like

4:01:03and that was a young little seven-year-old he must have he never missed another show

4:01:08ban is my partner now actually i'm ban's assistant every victoria day ban and i we go out we get the

4:01:15fireworks we dig our holes in the back we check to see where what is our distance to the trees

4:01:22fat work fat fat that boy does a great job you walk into there it's it's not you go in there and

4:01:29you understand how the fireworks spread out what distances they go is clearly marked on the fireworks

4:01:36ben and i we wear our glasses we have our pales of sand we dig our you know we understand which

4:01:42which which fireworks we have to dig into um which ones we pack around we spread it out we

4:01:49lay it out to how the show is going to go how we build to a crescendo how we build to the

4:01:54the show stopper and um it's for us safety is a premium like i said ben and i we we

4:02:03counter off each other um again ben's now 17 um so he's been doing this with me now for 10 years

4:02:11and uh we look at it as a responsible safe approach to joy to community we have food we have drink

4:02:21neighbors friends and family and uh but we take it responsibly and like i said when you go into

4:02:30the fire york road fat boy everything is laid out you have an understanding of what you're doing

4:02:35is well regulated it's safe it's a great community builder um unless just my personal experience so

4:02:44i just wanted to share that with you tonight um because honestly as councillor gibson had said

4:02:51if you're putting in permits and you're putting in regulations well that all comes to a stop

4:02:57i'm not going to be doing it that's for 20 years i've been we've had our friends our family

4:03:05our neighbors over and what's your what has been proposed puts an end to that

4:03:12a community building event that would be ended and that's why i speak tonight

4:03:20and i'm terribly nervous i'm scared as hell of public speaking so it means so much for me

4:03:26to come out here to say that tonight to just let you know to be reflective of those and it's not as

4:03:32you know it's not just me and i love it in our neighborhood because we have our show and there's

4:03:37and you can see for me on that victoria day weekend or canada day weekend i think it's celebration

4:03:43it's wonderful thank you i'll thank you David uh you you did just fine all right okay that does

4:03:53we're we're we're easy going here right actually yes it was okay so we're good we're good we appreciate

4:03:59everyone coming in here with their opinions it's all it's all good okay so uh we do i do

4:04:04have one question from councillor or rorya and then boost it till as well okay so just check around

4:04:09yeah thanks muka through through your door delegate you did a great job oh thank you it

4:04:13sounds like a fun time yeah i'm just curious so you've been doing it for 20 years obviously on a

4:04:18large enough property that you have all the proper setbacks etc i'm just curious when you buy fireworks

4:04:23in guelph are you giving guelph's rules at the point of sale like are somebody telling you

4:04:30you know you can't you can't put these off in the park you need a permit to put them off in the park

4:04:35which is our file like is is there any information about what our restrictions are in the city

4:04:40currently so that's one thing that i think we could you know from the ed kit i think you know i

4:04:45believe we have to see if this way of doing it if there's a safer way i'd absolutely love to learn

4:04:51that um when i walk into now again i've had 20 years of kind of experience i know there are

4:04:57pamphlets um i may not necessarily pick it up but i kind of when i walk into the store it's more

4:05:04the idea of understanding what's out there like how how they have the visuals it's written on the uh

4:05:11so so i i kind of think it is my own uh responsibility and as we've heard tonight with so many other

4:05:20communities in which english may not be the first language i think that's an opportunity for guelph to

4:05:24be to promote diversity right um so yeah i think more education absolutely okay i'm sorry i hope i

4:05:33answered your question you did thank you okay and uh councillor Busuttil is next thank you and through

4:05:39the mayor i think you did a great job oh thanks so do you just have a question that i asked another

4:05:45delegate obviously you're doing this in the backyard of your home do you know if you're

4:05:49home insurance permits fireworks no well that would be in a small print and i've never i'm sorry

4:05:55but i've never really they always get you in the small print yeah okay thank you um but again the

4:06:00approach we've always taken has been to be as safe as possible i see no other uh questions but again

4:06:09thank you so much for coming down and joining us tonight right thank you thank you very much

4:06:12everybody our next uh delegation has withdrawn so i believe in person is uh michael rose

4:06:22okay michael's not here and we all know lisa veilt uh from the guelph humane society

4:06:29so thank you for coming uh lisa nice to see you and uh i'll turn it over to you whenever

4:06:37you're ready go ahead perfect thanks so much uh good evening my name's lisa bite and i'm the

4:06:42executive director of the guelph humane society i've been involved in the field of animal welfare

4:06:48and wildlife conservation for only over 20 years of my career for the past 14 years i've worked

4:06:53specifically to help improve the health and welfare of animals in the guelph and weinten

4:06:58county community i appreciate the opportunity to speak this evening i'm here to address the

4:07:03profound and often overlooked impact that fireworks have on pets and wildlife as an advocate for animal

4:07:10welfare the guelph humane society wants to bring awareness to the reality that while fireworks

4:07:15may bring joy to many of us they have severe and harmful consequences for the animals with

4:07:19whom we share our community we like to provide support for the staff recommendation to move

4:07:25to a new permit-based fireworks bylaw which would ban personal use of fireworks taking it one step

4:07:31further we'd also like to urge council to consider an overall ban and fireworks in our community

4:07:37i'd like to emphasize that the support for the fireworks ban whether it be as

4:07:41residential and or professional aligns with the view of the majority of respondents to the city's

4:07:46engagement survey on the fireworks bylaw fireworks are an overwhelming sensory assault on animals

4:07:54studies have shown that noise from fireworks which can reach levels as high as 120 to 170

4:08:00decibels can can trigger intense fear and stress both in domestic pets and wild animals

4:08:07for context that's louder than a gunshot so let's first look at the impact on companion animals

4:08:14there is a high prevalence of noise phobia that has been well documented and companion dogs

4:08:19and likely significantly impacts other can speak companion species as well the loud

4:08:26unpredictable explosions created by fireworks are a key trigger for noise noise phobia for many

4:08:33dogs the responses to fireworks are extreme and the impact not only on the animal but on their

4:08:39family is severe in fact a scientific study demonstrated that more than half of dog owners

4:08:46reported a significant distress in their pets during fireworks with symptoms ranging from

4:08:51shaking and hiding to injurious self-harm i'm sure it comes as no surprise to any of us that

4:08:57have had a dog with a severe reaction to fireworks it comes and i hear that all too often in my

4:09:03conversations with dog owners in this community and now it affects their enjoyment of fireworks

4:09:09related holidays related to this intense fear response there's also considerable evidence

4:09:14that fireworks cause many animals to become so frightened that they run from otherwise familiar

4:09:19environments and people and sadly become lost or life-threatening situations such as risk of being

4:09:25hit by a car we have seen this scenario firsthand at ghs with an increase in reports of lost pets

4:09:32the evening of and the day following fireworks related holidays the impacts of fireworks on

4:09:38wildlife can be on an even wider scale the most well documented effects are on bird species the

4:09:44loud and spontaneous explosions of fireworks can incite flight responses and disorientation and

4:09:50many bird species using weather radar one study demonstrated that on average approximately 1000

4:09:57times as many birds were in flight during a fireworks event than on another night any other

4:10:02night while fireworks related disturbance decreased with distance overall flight activity remained

4:10:08elevated 10 fold at distances up to 10 kilometers so a dramatically wide-scale effect

4:10:15like in companion animals at ghs we have seen the impact on wildlife directly we've observed

4:10:20multiple events of kanda geese death and injuries that have occurred on roadways during or immediately

4:10:26following a fireworks display as a result of disorientation of the birds that caused them to

4:10:31fly directly into traffic it stands to reason that a considerable amount of the panic and fear

4:10:36experienced by birds and other types of wildlife likely occurs away from human observation but

4:10:43that makes it no less important to consider in fact in the city's community engagement survey

4:10:48respondents ranked scarce wildlife quotes scares wildlife the number one statement about fireworks

4:10:55and a list of 10 items so what are the alternatives well thankfully there are solutions that can allow

4:11:00us to continue to celebrate without negatively impacting animals many cities around the world

4:11:06have turned to drone light shows as well as laser light displays both can be choreographed into

4:11:12unique colorful and vibrant shows minus the explosive sounds so in closing fireworks are

4:11:18major animal welfare issue for companion animals and wildlife in suburban and urban areas particularly

4:11:23those in regions where community use is uncontrolled ghs supports the staff's recommendation to move

4:11:29to a new permit-based fireworks bylaw ban the use of personal fireworks as we better understand

4:11:36and acknowledge the negative impacts fireworks can have we have the ability and responsibility

4:11:42great snuck it in there lisa beautiful job thank you all right um is there any questions for lisa

4:11:52seeing none thank you very much appreciate it by video i think we have next is victor

4:11:59chapnik from kaboom fireworks ink i probably did not give enough oof to the word kaboom but uh

4:12:09do we have a yeah oh you hear me yes we can both here and see you thank you for joining us and

4:12:20you're uh up to five minutes starts right now go right ahead hey well my thanks to uh mayor

4:12:26guthrie and members of council for allowing me to address this committee my name is uh

4:12:31dr victor chapnik i'm the founder and ceo of kaboom fireworks kaboom has been a retailer and

4:12:38distributor of consumer fireworks for nearly 35 years kaboom opera just to give you some background

4:12:46kaboom operates 80 retail locations across southern ontario and distributes to major retailers

4:12:52who operate fireworks programs in over 130 municipalities in ontario alone in fact nearly

4:13:00all ontario municipalities continue to allow both the sale and use of consumer fireworks

4:13:07including larger municipalities such as toronto mississauga london windsor cambridge kitchens

4:13:14or waterloo hamilton burlington oakville st catharine's niagra ajax pickering whitby oshowa

4:13:21kinkston ottawa newmarket kezwick and berry in all of these municipalities sales are conducted

4:13:28in accordance with bylaws as well as federal explosives regulations which provide comprehensive

4:13:34guidelines governing the display for sale of consumer fireworks as part of these guidelines

4:13:40a comprehensive set of safety instructions must be provided to every customer in addition all

4:13:48of these municipalities allow their residents to safely discharge fireworks without a permit

4:13:54on victoria day and candidate day holidays and in several communities other cultural holidays

4:14:01are permitted including duwali and lunar new year in fact there have been only a few municipalities

4:14:08which have recently prohibited family fireworks and it is our understanding that this has not

4:14:13even been shown to decrease fireworks related complaints conversely a band could increase the

4:14:21number of complaints as published in the brampton guardian shortly after duwali last year there were

4:14:27over 1200 calls in two days made to the city of brampton about fireworks in spite of a ban

4:14:35in contrast as noted in the staff report gwell fire responded to only 10 calls about fireworks

4:14:42between 2022 and 2024 of which none were related to fires or injuries over the past two years the

4:14:52cities of toronto london mississauga and oshawe have all undertaken comprehensive reviews of their

4:15:00fireworks bylaws these reviews consisted of engagement with both the public and the fireworks

4:15:06industry in each case the sale of consumer fireworks as well as its use on private property

4:15:12during fireworks holidays has continued to be allowed the focus remains on education and enforcement

4:15:20we believe that if the sale and use of consumer fireworks are suddenly prohibited in wealth for

4:15:26victoria day candidate day and duwali celebrations thousands of residents and families will be very

4:15:32disappointed the proposed restrictions will increase the need for police enforcement as

4:15:39renegade uninsured vendors will surely pop up during long weekends to sell questionable product out

4:15:45of motor vehicles there would also be a significant risk of sales to minors accordingly we believe

4:15:53that the proposed restrictions would lead to a reduced safety and a greater nuisance consumers

4:16:00could still choose to purchase products online or in adjacent municipalities the staff report

4:16:07alleges that there will be no additional operational costs with the proposed new bylaw changes

4:16:13and that fireworks permit fees of a hundred dollars each uh related to organized events

4:16:20will offset enforcement staff costs this is not realistic it would be our expectation that

4:16:27enforcement costs could be considerable and the permit fee application uh revenue would be negligible

4:16:36further in the report it was noted that the gwealth police was under the impression that the

4:16:41enforcement would be carried out by gwealth fire and not the police however it will be the police

4:16:47who will be receiving calls when fireworks continue to be discharged on victoria day

4:16:51and canada day without a permit it will also be the police who will be responsible for shutting

4:16:57down illegal vendors with respect to the current bylaw it was noted that in the report that the

4:17:04police do not have issues with fireworks in gwealth it would be our recommendation that the council

4:17:11implements option one or option two of the proposed options this would be supported by the

4:17:17opinions of the gwealth chinese canadian cultural group and the gwealth youth council the focus should

4:17:24be on education okay yeah we just wanted to let you know that was your five minutes but we heard

4:17:31that ending i think sentence that's on on to focus on education i think is what you were just saying

4:17:36there at the end thank you victor we appreciate that just stick around to see if there's any uh

4:17:42questions okay there is not but again thank you very much for joining us okay is john luff here

4:17:57no okay how about mark matthews and aleem kanji from the canadian national fireworks association

4:18:12and actually i just turned the page you seem to be our last aleem so thank you very much for

4:18:20joining us and whenever you're ready i'll give you your five minutes too thank you uh just a

4:18:26question before i start do i control the green one thank you um good evening mr mayor members of

4:18:35council and uh staff thank you for allowing me to uh spend a few minutes and talk to you uh this

4:18:41evening just by way of background um there we go uh the kinea national firework association

4:18:50represents over 3000 um folks in the industry we also represent enthusiasts uh vendors of course

4:18:57in this city but also enthusiasts we've heard from some of those individuals of course uh tonight

4:19:02people that are involved in the sale of of uh fireworks and those that enjoy fireworks what

4:19:07underpins our organization is the commitment to public safety and a safety-based approach to

4:19:13enforcement um we are obviously of the very strong opinion that industry and government

4:19:19must both accept the responsibility to create education vendor certification and employee

4:19:25training for users and i'll talk to you about that momentarily um this is our be a good neighbor

4:19:31program we use this in cities across the country it reminds people of the the um

4:19:40goals of using fireworks prepare ahead of time respect your community celebrate responsibly

4:19:45inform your neighbors be safe when using fireworks and clean up and it's born out of federal

4:19:50regulations as well our vendor certification employee training program really puts the

4:19:55onus onto us um anyone is allowed to take this program at no cost um we've seen communities

4:20:01interested in using this or elements of it within their own bylaws and that's something

4:20:06you know we'd certainly support uh again putting education um at the point of sale

4:20:12and ensuring that folks here are doing that um so that's our certification employee training program

4:20:19um folks in the room have received these in hard copy but also digitally they are our research

4:20:25publications for those viewing online available at nationalfireworks.ca i'm happy to talk about any

4:20:31or all of them including the banning of fireworks uh fireworks and animals um interestingly i

4:20:38printed off a press release uh from the gulf humane society uh from june of this year that actually

4:20:44reads if i can quote keep your pets indoors ensure your pets are kept inside during fireworks

4:20:50displays uh and create a safe considerable a comfortable spot for them when they are safe

4:20:55and we actually support that i think that's a really good idea from the gulf humane society

4:20:59doesn't say anything in here about getting rid of the industry from the june press release

4:21:04we also have a research paper on silent fireworks and drones happy to talk a little bit about that

4:21:11and of course health impacts distilling some of the myths that are present around uh health impacts

4:21:18now the report before us uh today i know we spoke about this a little bit of it

4:21:22and i don't want to be repetitive because there was been a lot of great content shared

4:21:26this evening um you know the option before you in terms of a total ban uh really would not be um

4:21:34palatable i think for the people of this community they would simply be able to purchase online or in

4:21:39other neighboring communities this is a great community unfortunately it's not an island and

4:21:43people will uh purchase elsewhere uh in terms of noise complaints um staff were very gracious and

4:21:50i just wanted to give a shout out to staff for providing this information um 0.003 percent of

4:21:58all bylaw calls made to the city were from fireworks uh that is low fully low and probably one of the

4:22:06lowest of any any area doesn't include uh councillor calls but even layering that in it is still

4:22:12incredibly low and year to date in 2024 it's 0.002 percent of all bylaw calls i just wanted to

4:22:21mention now that it's not a top complaint never has been um and year to date is not

4:22:28so i guess coming back to some of the questions on the first of october what's the issue we're

4:22:32trying to solve um really good question i mean is is this really a community issue um we we don't

4:22:39certainly believe it is as compared certainly to other complaints that are are being made uh is

4:22:43there a legal liability on injuries um certainly there could be if there's a ban in this city and

4:22:48somebody decides um to uh conduct a lawsuit against the city um by virtue of a ban that that

4:22:56certainly would have its challenges of being in in forest um drones and laser shows great

4:23:01alternatives we can look at st catharines calona montreal um those are cities and examples where

4:23:08they've actually moved from drones back to fireworks because of community opposition

4:23:14education enforcement obviously nothing underpins that and um the current fine increase signal that

4:23:20was talked about earlier i do have a compromise solution i wanted to put in front of council

4:23:24which actually speaks to um a lot of the elements of the report and supports that with the exception of

4:23:31not allowing permits for fireworks use thank you thank you thank you eline thank you very much for

4:23:42your your presentation and let me just see if there's a follow-up for okay yep councillor

4:23:49gibson please thank you uh thank you for your presentation i guess it's a theme that i'm hearing

4:23:57and i just want to confirm with you um no no one that we've heard on the pro fireworks side tonight

4:24:03has been against uh more education and even enforcement um it's more or less

4:24:10i think where the line stops is just allowing the consumers to to still participate in the activity

4:24:17am i clear in hearing i don't think i've heard it from anybody that they're against more more

4:24:21stringent enforcement and education at point of sale through you uh mr mayor um to the councillor

4:24:31absolutely i mean i think i think uh from users in the community that we've heard from

4:24:37from industry's uh perspective that we've heard from more education is is a good thing and in

4:24:43an education is the best tool for enforcement as we've seen uh quite frankly in cities across the

4:24:49country uh and nothing should underpin um education and knowing the rules in each community and every

4:24:56community has you know a different kind of demographic different ingredients you know whether

4:25:02they are our um rule or close to bodies of water or in environmentally sensitive areas and we see

4:25:08bylaws that reflect that uh and so certainly um uh having more education we believe at the point of

4:25:16sale uh is is uh is going to be critical um to to moving forward and that continuous education

4:25:24the same way remind people not to make shrinking and driving that's a common uh

4:25:28message that we hear we're ready to do our part to make sure that people understand the rules

4:25:32right here in the city of guelph i hope that answers your question councillor thank you thank you

4:25:43seeing nothing further thank you very much lean for your presentation too thank you

4:25:48and that brings us uh to the uh to the end of the delegations that went great thank you very much

4:25:55for everyone there was some correspondence as well there of course so bringing us back to

4:26:06the recommendation that has flown from committee to tonight the recommendation from staff is that

4:26:13staff be directed to create a new permit based fireworks bylaw to replace and to repeal the

4:26:19fireworks bylaw from 1993-14362 is there someone that would be willing to move that for me okay

4:26:27councillor Allt and boost it up yeah okay boost it up and um i'll start a list

4:26:37oh okay yeah gibson then alt please uh gibson alt then uh kateen thank you through mr mayor i forwarded

4:26:45amendment along to uh city clerks yesterday informed council my mentions okay uh just hope

4:26:54that you have that okay you're moving that and is there a seconder for that it's by councillor

4:27:04karan okay so i believe that count sorry i'll just read it out loud sorry about that councillor kippin

4:27:11so sorry i'll just read it out loud that council directs staff to exclude novelty devices i.e.

4:27:17sparklers party poppers as defined by the explosives act type f from requiring a permit for their

4:27:24purchase or discharge thank thank you mr mayor i'll just take my two minutes the um okay the fact is

4:27:34we the bylaw as it stands um is a bit coarse it i do appreciate staff's work on this don't get me

4:27:42wrong this is never personal but when i had my conversations with staff i did come to realize that

4:27:48even um the sparklers like the children's party sparklers and birthday cake sparklers and party

4:27:53poppers would be would be effectively be banned with using this bylaw i felt like that was not the

4:28:01intention of the bylaw i felt like um in effect i mean we can all picture unfortunately on canada

4:28:10children celebrating the country with sparklers in hand and someone calling

4:28:14bylaw because the sparklers are banned i just felt like that was too much um and i appreciate um

4:28:21you know the councillors that have reached out and support i just feel like carving this out of

4:28:25the bylaw is the right thing to do at a minimum um and we should we shouldn't be having this

4:28:29conversation about party poppers and sparklers i just i just feel like that's too much okay i have

4:28:35one question um from councillor Allt to staff and then you know i'd like to just call the vote on

4:28:43this okay thank you very much mayor guthrie i i do support the principles behind what councillor

4:28:47gibson has presented and i will likely vote for it i just wish to ask staff if there are any

4:28:54challenges as a consequence of this amendment before we vote upon it uh through the mayor i'm

4:29:01going to defer perhaps to the fire chief if he would like to comment from a safety perspective

4:29:11thank you your worship to members of council um i don't have uh empirical data to back up

4:29:20my experience but i can share with you um two particular anecdotes where i have responded

4:29:27in an emergency situation to a child a young one in particular about seven to nine-year-old girl

4:29:36who was burned with a sparkler um that was shoved in her face um sustaining significant

4:29:44and painful burns um i don't think any firefighter or parent ever wants to see that

4:29:53and i know that's not the intent of the sparklers i understand the joy and the excitement the kids

4:30:00have but they do tend to run around with those sparklers and then don't it's not just the

4:30:06dangers to themselves uh there's a danger to other children with the use of those sparklers

4:30:11i think that's the extent of my ability to comment on that amendment thank you and thank you very

4:30:17much for being candid on that i appreciate that and i suspect that the there are many household

4:30:21tragedies that are very similar um i'm certainly guilty of having a fireplace in my house and

4:30:28that causes me some anxiety with kids as well uh permit made get taken for the fireplace by the way

4:30:35however um the point is i think i i shall still support councillor Gibson's motion

4:30:40i believe that it is likely the case that as i said there are many household concerns

4:30:45nonetheless uh this is a minute aspect of what we're talking about which i will speak to

4:30:52perhaps in in the remarks that i'll make um after this uh motion

4:30:57sure absolutely i can put you down um i can put you down first on the list for for comments if you

4:31:02wish okay i'd like to call the vote on that i mean it's like you know sparkle or no sparkle uh so i'm

4:31:10gonna i'm gonna call the vote is anyone not in favor of the amendment okay so that passes

4:31:17unanimously thank you if there's nothing more on the main motion with that amendment if there's

4:31:27nothing more may i i look to okay i'll look to comments then before the vote okay uh councillor

4:31:35alton uh katin please thank you very much mayor guthrie um i i um i move the motion because

4:31:43i'll be quite honest i love fireworks um i think they're great but i am in favor of regulation for

4:31:48a number of reasons and as a point of personal privilege before i begin i would like to state

4:31:54and make it very clear for the community that uh the intention of council in considering the banning

4:31:59or restrictive of fireworks should not be construed as being anti-canadian anti-diversity

4:32:04or an attack on cultural practices we as a council must respond to concerns of safety public standards

4:32:11and environmental concerns as they arise and this has not been considered since 1993 and we are now

4:32:182024 so it is worthwhile to reconsider this we must also respond to community well-being

4:32:24some people in a rapidly growing community experience fireworks as a trigger for pts bd

4:32:29because they came from a war zone coincidentally remembering that fireworks are an explosive

4:32:36people clearly i agree are not going to necessarily stop using fireworks because of a law

4:32:43some people never quit smoking yet well-restricted smoking years ago because we believed it was

4:32:50the right thing to do it was a public health and safety initiative the fireworks initiative is public

4:32:56health safety and an environmental initiative considering a ban on fireworks is our job our job

4:33:04is not to throw up our hands and to say that some will break the law therefore we should not try it

4:33:10it's imperative that we do try it we must legislate for the good of the community and

4:33:14that's what we are considering here today thank you so much i have katin and goller

4:33:22thank you through you mr. mayor um fireworks are pretty chemical explosions if allowed at all

4:33:29they should be handled by trained and insured people we have backyard firebounds we shouldn't

4:33:34be allowing backyard explosions we have listened to the fire chief on safety for encampments

4:33:40why would we ignore their advice on fireworks we shouldn't be cherry picking community safety

4:33:45because some people enjoy something that's deemed unsafe there are options like laser and drone

4:33:51shows so we're not preventing celebrations it's an evolution of safety and environmental policy

4:33:57we require insurance for all sites all source events and parks that have less going on than

4:34:03explosions so i don't think that's a big issue to be blocking us from creating this bylaw

4:34:10and even though i too have enjoyed fireworks in the past nostalgia is not a good enough reason

4:34:15to ignore known dangers so i think staff did a great job at balancing access with safety

4:34:21and the majority of the residents surveyed said that they would be okay with a total ban

4:34:26so i think that what staff is proposing is a good path forward thank you so much councillor

4:34:36kateen uh councillor Goller please thank you thank you through your worship

4:34:43i've heard from from many of my constituents about this issue and overwhelmingly they supported

4:34:50the staff recommendation many of them would have liked to see the city go farther in a total ban

4:34:56of all fireworks but i understand that we have to be be open to cultural celebrations to special

4:35:04events so i i believe that city staff have presented an appropriate approach uh that

4:35:10allows for those celebrations while limiting the amount of fireworks that we're going to see

4:35:16three days before five days after by by prohibiting the sale of retail fireworks

4:35:23and i know that overwhelmingly my constituents who have pets who suffer because of this and

4:35:31were woken up in the middle of the night the week before and the week after uh allowed um fireworks

4:35:37are allowed i know they will be grateful uh for ghost city council moving for this forward thank

4:35:43you worship thank you councillor Goller councillor or rork and then busatil please

4:35:51margaret you're really apologies i had a couple questions and it went by too fast so would you

4:35:57indulge me so thanks so through you margaret to staff i just want to be clear like there's no draft

4:36:03bylaw right now for fireworks right this is direction to say based on these recommendations

4:36:09you should go and write a new bylaw is that correct through the mayor to council or rock that is

4:36:16correct the direction would be for staff to take it away and to create a bylaw based on a permit

4:36:22system then bring it back forward to count forward to council for the consideration okay and uh through

4:36:28you margaret three i'm just curious so um in the recommendations you have these minimum safe distances

4:36:35dis uh discharge distances should the motion fail and we say we want to stick with the bylaw that we

4:36:42have could we not just add these discharge distances to the current safety recommendations

4:36:50that are on the website through the mayor to councillor roark so the question is if this motion

4:36:58fails could there be another direction to staff to add distances to the existing bylaw yes okay uh

4:37:08thank you um oh my last one margaret three so currently on our website it says and we may as

4:37:15well say it for devali and before the next opportunity to sell fireworks people who set off

4:37:22fireworks in public parks currently need a permit correct through the mayor to council or rock that

4:37:32is correct then they would have to add the permission of the the city to discharge fireworks

4:37:37right so through you my gut three do you think most people are aware of that through the mayor

4:37:48through the mayor to council or work i i wouldn't know the answer to that it's other people's yeah

4:37:54i wouldn't know the answer to that all right so um so thank you mr god free for your comments so

4:38:00america three if i can do comments um i have i've been back and forth on the staff recommendation

4:38:10and on a few things i just i can't endorse the banning of the sale of a product that is legal

4:38:16and that can be purchased online or in any surrounding community then moreover if you

4:38:22were to ban the sale here in guelph there is zero opportunity for point of sale education

4:38:28i will add which i think is a really important component going forward i would add also that

4:38:34this proposed bylaw would require somebody to get a license and i tried to go on the website

4:38:41because i don't ask somebody to do something i wouldn't do myself it was actually really hard

4:38:45just to get past the qr codes and all those things so there's a cost then there's additional costs in

4:38:51terms of the the permitting with the city um and and i just don't think that's a real

4:38:59priority for me personally or or i says a city the other thing is if you ban the sale and the use

4:39:05of residential or or retail fireworks the commercial ones are louder so the concerns around the

4:39:12environment the concerns around noise what we would continue to permit is actually potentially worse

4:39:20so really for those reasons i would prefer to keep our current bylaw perhaps add some

4:39:28discharge distances change the time and focus on education and enforcement because even if we move

4:39:37to a permit based bylaw people will still be setting them off at two in the morning which is

4:39:43unpleasant for everybody and i just don't see how we can enforce the new permit base so the people

4:39:49who are law abiding and trying to do it properly when incur more costs and then we will still have

4:39:54a problem enforcing the folks that are not doing it based on the new bylaw so on that

4:40:00in that vein i won't support the staff recommendation oh thank you councillor

4:40:05thank you very much councillor councillor busadil thank you uh and and to echo up my

4:40:11councillor colleague sorry through the mayor um as an Italian Maltese i think every single day

4:40:16we had a feast of some say saint or celebration growing up so fireworks almost every single day

4:40:24and so while they're beautiful i too will be supporting the staff recommendations i wish it

4:40:29went even further in a neighborhood where they are going off in backyards and have caused damage

4:40:37and have caused fire i'm concerned about this and so i do i do support the staff recommendations

4:40:47i i do not want to see fireworks going on in residential backyards i have a number of

4:40:53neighbors who will be celebrating Diwali and i spoke to them about a councillor Gibson's

4:41:00amendment and i quickly called to say thank you because they are quite happy to celebrate

4:41:05Diwali in their backyard with their with their sparklers and the kids there um i am very concerned

4:41:12about all of the impacts and so i am happy to support this this recommendation and thank you councillor

4:41:23is there anything more for for i call the vote okay councillor Gibson with the comment comments

4:41:30thank you through mr mayor so i'll i'll try and be brief um i am on the education and enforcement

4:41:38side of this our discussion i think that we still have a lot of work to do on the education

4:41:44and enforcement side specifically before we before i'm comfortable moving to a full ban or even

4:41:51restricted the ban on um like consumer fireworks um two stories i the one delegate who talked about

4:41:58the community event that happens at his house every victory day um i can 100% relate every

4:42:04candidate day for the last six years down at the lake um our family cottage we we have almost the

4:42:09entire street show up and for the for one time one night for half an hour as the sun goes down

4:42:16we see everyone on our street and we touch base and we say how are the kids and how is this and

4:42:20how's that um we have one neighbor down there that doesn't like that and that's the other side of the

4:42:25argument um our family dog goes inside he kind of knows the routine now but for for us it's it's a

4:42:33true enjoyment of of the day candidate day and it does it does bring community together so um

4:42:40could we do it better are we doing anything wrong could we be better educated uh maybe we're never

4:42:46we're never reckless we're always trying to be as safe as we can but you know even in our case

4:42:51could we learn to discharge them better could we learn to dispose them better of course and that's

4:42:55kind of where i come down on on this argument today just because i do think that we we do have some

4:43:01time and i don't want to make a rash decision on on an outright ban on on the idea of animals i'm

4:43:08sensitive to animals again i've mentioned that our dog doesn't love them goes inside um i do here

4:43:15for a few days after each long weekend that the fireworks are permitted a few email about

4:43:21animals not not enjoying them but i and i'm not trying to draw false parallels here but i do here

4:43:27um and the exercise number more like an enormous number more about uh family pets on trails and

4:43:35sharps and paraphernalia and consuming things that they shouldn't then they do fireworks so again

4:43:41not drawing parallels i'm just saying that it is a concern but it's not the driving concern for

4:43:47animal welfare that i'm aware of in the city but i do appreciate everyone's conversations despite my

4:43:52amendment to allow party paupers and sparklers i still will be support not supporting the

4:43:59staff recommendation thank you okay thank you is there anything further at all before i call the

4:44:06vote okay um i know that at i'll call the vote staff after i speak then i know that at the at the

4:44:15committee meeting i said something to the effect of you know the status quo can't can't remain and

4:44:22i still i still stand by that um however um is in trying to address the status quo does it mean

4:44:31that we have to swing the pendulum so far to be over over regulation and making it so onerous

4:44:40on what i believe is actually not a very big issue in our city compared to the other issues that

4:44:47we're all trying to deal with and so the status quo issue for me to change which i still want to

4:44:52follow through on is some of the other things that have been um given us suggestions like education

4:44:58like distances like increased fines which i brought up at committee um and so i think that's where we

4:45:06can challenge the status quo and that's where we can try to have some oversight on this and not in

4:45:12the manner in which it's been presented so i too will not be uh supporting it as recommended

4:45:19so i'll call the vote is anyone against uh what's before us right now please raise your hand

4:45:26all right so billings and gipson and quassan and guthrie and uh ororic and richardson and chou

4:45:37and so it fails okay so um we do have some people that are wishing to maybe talk about those

4:45:45those issues of of challenging the status quo maybe amending a few things and trying something

4:45:50different to address some of the issues councillor O'Rourke you had mentioned that you have some

4:45:56ideas i think councillor chou maybe as well okay councillor O'Rourke you go first thanks margathry

4:46:04so i have three two circulated earlier and one that i i just circulated and they have been shared

4:46:09with clerks so i'm happy to read those uh so currently the permitted hours for fireworks

4:46:17are inexplicably from 9 a.m uh to 11 59 i'm not sure why they start at 9 a.m uh to between 9 a.m

4:46:25and 11 p.m which aligns with most noise bylaws for clubs and things so i'd like to see that time

4:46:33reduced the point of sale employees be required to provide information on firework safety and

4:46:38wealth rules and guidelines to purchasers of fireworks and that staff be directed to consider

4:46:45oh i should not the higher fine one because i know my colleague has one um that minimum

4:46:50safe distances from residences and all vulnerable occupancies school nursing and care facilities

4:46:56be added to the current bylaw i think that's a good ad so uh are we gonna pick off number three

4:47:04yeah we're taking off number three and i have a new three you have a new number three i do

4:47:07go just just just wait a second yeah and we'll just get that fixed it's okay everyone take a breath

4:47:16so through you margathry to staff if or council i don't know if anybody wants to change the 9 a.m

4:47:21i don't know why we're allowed to start them at 9 a.m but um okay let's just again wait to get up on

4:47:28the screen did you have a seconder i'm so sorry yes councillor gibson said he was okay um while

4:47:40it's getting amended can i just ask you a quick question did you say something about distances

4:47:44from like daycares or something like schools so in just don't know of a daycare that would be

4:47:49okay no no um care facilities oh cares right sorry i misunderstood you i'm sorry okay okay

4:47:57so that's the language that i pulled from the second staff report we've had a couple of

4:48:01documents now but i like the concept of those minimum safe distances okay so i'll just read it

4:48:11and i'll hand it back to you if that's okay so that the minimum safety this is the new number three

4:48:15that the minimum safe distances from residents and all vulnerable occupancies schools nursing and care

4:48:20oh there's my glasses because i can't look at my screen i gotta go up here be added to the current

4:48:26bylaw okay you up the floor did you want to say anything more or is that straightforward enough

4:48:31i have already had a request to split them out so they'll i'll call the vote on each one okay

4:48:36is there anything more no i think it's pretty self-explanatory i tend to agree do i have to

4:48:41have any questions on this because at all or okay just one thank you three mr really quick

4:48:48point of clarification to staff the minimum safe the minimum safe distances conversation there is

4:48:53no number there's a number in the memo but i'd like i'd like to know whether or not that minimum

4:48:59safe distance conversation will be for council or will it be delegated to staff to determine again

4:49:05i know there's a number in the memo i'm not sure we've had that conversation yet or if even if we

4:49:09have to um that's a question to staff through the mayor to councillor gibson the distance the setback

4:49:22distance that was provided in the memo was based on uh what other municipalities have uh determined

4:49:29we would review um the the setbacks of all municipalities and come up with one that is

4:49:37appropriate with for the city of wealth based on input from the fire chief i believe the setback

4:49:46distance currently is from a premise or a property that has a flammable um bust of uh

4:49:57source as well as vulnerable premises so the setback that was given was 300 other municipalities

4:50:03have increased at 500 other municipalities have about 200 so we would take that away and come up

4:50:09with an appropriate setback for wealth okay one quick follow-up if you don't mind the the the

4:50:15wording i remember from the memo specifically cited bulk fuels so where it manufactures stores

4:50:22or transports bulk fuels um i'm assuming that's not like a lawn mower or a car or something like that

4:50:32you're talking about gas stations bulk bulk fuel supply places propane cylinders things like that

4:50:40through the mayor to councillor gibson that's correct okay i'm much more comfortable thank you

4:50:45uh alt and then boost the till please thank you mayor guthrie i'm not going to propose

4:50:52amendments but i'm not going to support at least number one i would be looking for staff to make

4:50:57recommendations on times i believe and i have no foundation for this but that nine a.m probably comes

4:51:04from a time when i was a kid when that was the time we were permitted to let off fire crackers in

4:51:09the morning and it seems to me i don't recall people letting off fireworks at nine a.m in the morning

4:51:14but i can't put an appropriate time on there because i think that's likely seasonal based upon

4:51:19when sunset is so consequently it would be up to staff to recommend that and hence i can't uh

4:51:26can't support that as for the closing time the problem with that for me is that if fireworks

4:51:32are going off on the monday night of a long weekend which they often do that clearly does interfere

4:51:38with the rest time for some children as well and i believe that we would need to truncate that as well

4:51:45uh thank you maybe i could just get um some commentary from staff and i know our deputy

4:51:50cao clae collin clackbush wanted to also address maybe just something else that was mentioned too so

4:51:55in response to that collin thank you and through you america three i just wanted to provide the

4:52:00just the clarification for council that the intent is that we would be bringing this back

4:52:05as a fully formed bylaw given all of the feedback that we're receiving tonight

4:52:09and that it would come back at the end of the night as a bylaw on a council meeting so i just

4:52:14want to make sure that we're clear this would not be coming back for another presentation staff

4:52:19report um open for delegations it would simply come back like we do when we bring other bylaws

4:52:24at the end of the night now of course it is always council's discretion to consider that

4:52:28bylaw and decide if when you see it in its final form you're satisfied with it but for that reason

4:52:33i would say the more specificity you can give us tonight the better we will of course go away if

4:52:39there are things that still need interpretation um we will then work with our legal staff to make

4:52:44sure that is clearly defined and articulated in the bylaw so we will take everything that you

4:52:49direct us to do tonight and if there is anything that needs final clarification we will do that

4:52:54but i just wanted to make sure that everyone was clear um that when we say we are bringing it back

4:52:59that isn't coming back for another evening of delegations and debate it would simply be on

4:53:03the bylaws at the end of the night thank you i think our councillor altspin nice enough to

4:53:10not have the floor still but i do need to kind of follow up on one of his questions if you don't

4:53:14mind uh councillor Allt like the 9 a.m. thing like is that a carryover from ancient days past or is that

4:53:24like is there relevancy to what councillor Allt has uh has brought up there because

4:53:29it feels to me like 9 a.m. seems a little odd to me as well so it feels like a relevant question

4:53:34uh to you mayor um the existing bylaw says 9 a.m. and i think that's where it's coming from so

4:53:41okay so it's not i kind of figured that too so it's have we ever had have you ever had any issues

4:53:49of of that in your time here of complaints between like 9 a.m. and like sort of the 6 7 o'clock p.m.

4:53:59range or uh to you mayor i'm sure there's been some complaints over the time that i've been here but

4:54:07i had not that many that i can recall okay thank you and i i guess uh i guess um i guess in a way

4:54:18i mean i'm just trying to go back to what councillor gibson did as an amendment earlier i mean there

4:54:22could be sparkles which would be covered under the bylaw that could be done at 10 a.m. 11 p 11 a.m.

4:54:2812 o'clock noon depending on the celebrations that are happening um so i guess the bylaw

4:54:36then would allow it because it covers it from 9 a.m. would that be correct

4:54:40uh to you mayor that would be correct okay and i'm going to go back and uh give the floor to

4:54:45councillor Allt and following up on that one of my concerns with it also not only are

4:54:50sparklers permitted at 9 a.m. but so are explosions which make noises and the comment about daycares

4:54:56perhaps not being open uh i'm not certain that that's entirely true all the time either so consequently

4:55:02i think we need to consider the 9 a.m. as being perhaps at just a a titch too generous on fireworks

4:55:10at this point um i mean i certainly know many parents who have their children uh uh in some form

4:55:18of care on weekends when fireworks are normally set off thank you so much councillor Busuttil please

4:55:26yes thank you and i have a question for staff just around the distance is that auditory you know

4:55:31having a dog uh who gets quite upset uh at at a distance is it an auditory distance that uh and

4:55:39also living in a neighborhood with refugees where this is quite distressing to them uh through the

4:55:45mayor to councillor Busuttil uh that would be just a measured distance 300 meters 500 meters from the

4:55:52whatever originating point it would be so if it's a gas station it would be from that that property

4:56:01thank you and the other part of it was around the reference to schools uh again you know if we have a

4:56:07map for school board property versus city city parks just not suggesting that um people do not

4:56:15distinguish between city parks and school board property and similar to city property permits

4:56:20are required for schools and having a dog taking it for a walk and so on eating the waste of uh fire

4:56:27crackers and so on um is there going to be a conversation with schools because fireworks

4:56:32are not permitted through communities through school boards and that's actually under the

4:56:36ministry of education act so just wondering how you're going to put this together talking about

4:56:42education it's not only about city um just ensuring that safety i i will not be supporting any of these

4:56:50recommendations i am extremely disappointed uh with uh with the recommendations that have come

4:56:55forward not enough in my view okay thank you so much so let's put the three up on the screen and

4:57:02i'll have them split and i'll do one at a time okay so the first is that the permitted hours for

4:57:08fireworks be changed from between 9 a.m and 11 59 p.m to 9 a.m to 11 p.m and so i'll call the vote

4:57:16does anyone against that two uh three i'm so sorry kate in uh alt and boost it till

4:57:26all right that passes and so the second one is the point of sale employees be required to provide

4:57:33information on fireworks safety and golf rules and guidelines for the purchaser to the purchasers of

4:57:39fireworks so call the vote on that is anyone against that okay uh kate in and alt and boost

4:57:49it till okay and the third is and i guess i have a do i have a question from councillor

4:57:59billings before i call the vote on that okay go ahead okay so even though i will support this clause

4:58:10it does say minimum safe distances from residents and the reason why i asked the question with respect

4:58:17to discharge distances set back at cow and also even tonight um with a um a delegate was that in

4:58:26the staff report yes it had the 300 staff are now saying they are going to come back and and recommend

4:58:34so many meters but just to put it into perspective even though the 300 meters was in our memo

4:58:42if we had 300 meters we would not be even be allowed to have um riverside park display fireworks

4:58:53because 300 meters you have to do with the diameter which you're getting close to 2000 feet

4:58:59so the answer to one of my questions tonight was apparently mississauga has around 26 feet

4:59:07so mr gub free was again stating he's going to look at the 200 250 300 meters so i'm going to

4:59:14ask through you mr mayor given if this um clause um gets approved will you be looking at more

4:59:23something more reasonable like around the 26 feet because if we don't then there will be no backyard

4:59:32fireworks it's for the mayor and councillor billings yes we would be looking at that the

4:59:40understanding that the intent is to have a safe setback distance but not to outright prohibit the

4:59:45discharge of fireworks um other miss pally's do specify setback distances from residents

4:59:52and other locations and they vary from 300 uh 100 meters so we would sorry 30 to 100 meters so we

4:59:59would take that away determine what's appropriate for guelph to ensure that uh residents can still

5:00:05discharge whereas whereas mississauga has eight meters so okay thank you i'm just going to go to

5:00:16just going to go to councillor busadil first and then and then yourself councillor thank you and

5:00:20through the mayor just says a question that i asked the delegates as well um i'm very concerned

5:00:25about the backyard fireworks uh do you is are the staff aware uh if household insurance permits

5:00:32backyard fireworks because i will be following up on this as well through the mayor to council

5:00:40bestow we don't know that thank you uh or orc please uh thank you mayor Guthrie so this uh

5:00:48recommendation was just lifted right from the staff report so if if people want to propose an

5:00:53amendment to the language and and remove the word all for vulnerable occupancies i just liked

5:00:58the i wanted to retain the concept uh of a distance particularly from nursing homes or care facilities

5:01:05so i'm open to an amendment if someone has something better to propose right is there anyone

5:01:13that wishes to adjust this at this time okay would you like to adjust it yourself based on

5:01:20what you've just stated there councillor work so mayor Guthrie the piece that i'm hesitating on is

5:01:27it says um the safe distance from residences but the some of the delegates were saying that's on all

5:01:34the packages so i don't i'll leave it as is i will leave it to staff to do their research and we will

5:01:40see it when it comes back and amend amended bylaw okay so i just have a quick question before i call

5:01:45the vote then like that you you just took the word out of my mouth um the safe distances for

5:01:51discharge are already printed on all fireworks anyways so can't you just make the bylaw reference

5:01:59that the discharge of all fireworks shall be done in accordance with the the the the to

5:02:10marry the manufacturers safe distances or something as displayed or i'm making it up on the fly but

5:02:15you get what i'm trying to say yeah we gather all the information like that in from the other

5:02:19municipalities to the fire chief and come up with a recommendation to provide council but yeah we'd

5:02:24be looking at that as well the the recommendation is 300 meters from what was in the memo was 300

5:02:31meters from a vulnerable residence or premise or location that had a combustible so the we would

5:02:38you know obviously we want to make sure that anyone discharging fireworks would also do

5:02:42something in recommendation whatever it's on the package as well yes that's fine all right thank you

5:02:50i just wanted to uh wash that a little bit all right so we'll leave that to you to consider

5:02:55before the final bylaw comes forward okay so i'll call the vote on on that is anyone against that

5:03:03so that would be alt and katin and busitil okay thank you uh and then the final one i think

5:03:11councillor Chew you have something did you send it to clerks okay we'll wait for that to go up on

5:03:16the screen and i'll read that out loud pardon me councillor Chew is there a different motion

5:03:31than you want to display can we just do this one or i think it'd be better if we do the the other

5:03:36one first okay it's just to increase the fine it's just the most to increase the fine okay yeah

5:03:42we'll throw that out there it's yours yep you get to choose can you put that on the screen so we can

5:03:48all see together yeah it's coming up all the three day when it comes up first of all do you have a

5:03:52seconder okay um councillor Richardson let staff be directed to seek approval from the regional

5:04:01senior justice for new set fines related to the fireworks bylaw and that the set fines submitted

5:04:06for approval are greater than the administration fees and taken into consideration the impact

5:04:11the violation may have on the public councillor Chew i'll turn the floor over to you on this yeah so

5:04:19basically in like the motion that would the memo that was provided to us it essentially

5:04:25implicated that if we were to have a permit system that the permit itself would be the the fee for

5:04:33the permit would be less than the amount of the fine but obviously we're not talking about that

5:04:38anymore because that failed however i do want to suggest to staff that we suggest increasing the

5:04:45fine through anyone that's prohibiting our bylaw that we're going to have if you don't mind

5:04:53i just want to i just want to try to help so okay i saw that you have created your motion

5:05:01under the pretense that the bylaw had passed that's why you're referencing the permit but

5:05:09now that that's not there and your intent is just to try to pass a motion tonight to have staff

5:05:16go away to try to increase the fines should the motion not even reference the permit issue so

5:05:22perhaps we can get rid of the permit but talk about looking at increasing the fines for the

5:05:28new bylaw that's coming forward so that's what i'm trying to get at yeah i understand that so

5:05:32what i'm trying to help you with is that what's on the floor might be easier if you just remove it

5:05:38and you rewrite it quickly okay um uh that doesn't reference the permit

5:05:44because that's that's not existent anymore um am i saying the right thing staff i want to make sure

5:05:51i'm giving the right advice here i'm sorry as the chair but if staff have am i saying the wrong

5:05:56thing to the mayor you are correct i just the put that in the minutes yeah hold on one second i

5:06:04apologize for doing this on the fly this is all just coming up as we speak but i don't think there's

5:06:09any references to the permit in my motion but if there is or if there's a suggestion of that

5:06:16please feel free to i think that i think clerks are understanding what to to change

5:06:22so this is it right here yeah okay so okay so can someone please explain to me and counsel

5:06:30what is what does it mean by greater than administration fees i don't think there are

5:06:34any administration fees now to the mayor that is correct well i'm sorry i said permits but i guess

5:06:44it's administration fees so that needs to be that needs to be removed okay there is no administration

5:06:49fees so i believe that your motion probably should read um related to the fireworks bylaw

5:06:57and to take into consideration the impact the violation may have on the public

5:07:03and take out the whole middle part because it doesn't exist anymore

5:07:08counsel or two if you're okay with that i'm pretty sure our clerks are already on the fly help

5:07:13yeah no that's perfect thanks for the help before we move on any further staffed is that make the

5:07:18intent clear everyone understand that okay i'm so sorry uh counsel richardson you're still okay

5:07:25with that okay clerks do i need to go through the formal process of asking the original one to

5:07:32be removed and no you're okay okay i want to make sure okay with that now just let me let me go to

5:07:40if you could turn off your microphone if i could go to counsel all with a question quick one through

5:07:44you to staff if we could just have explained to us what the regional senior justice is and where

5:07:49that person actually sits through uh mayor to councillor all the senior regional justice is part

5:08:02of the court system so all our set fines that are issued under the provincial offenses act are are

5:08:09submitted to their for their consideration uh yeah it's like it it's like a hierarchy process where

5:08:19it has to flow through them to get allowances for us to change things it's a formal thank you just

5:08:24never heard the expression before yeah the last time we did it was during covid i think it was like

5:08:30nuisance party finding creases or something am i right wow second time i've been right all right

5:08:35yeah um any questions on this one before i call the vote caller i thank you through worship to

5:08:42to staff uh based on the on the warning of the uh motion uh what how would you go about

5:08:49uh choosing what amount we would recommend uh through the mayor to councillor Goller is part of

5:08:56the our current process we would look at other bylaws that the city has such as the nuisance

5:09:01bylaw or the noise bylaw uh as well as looking at the the fines of other municipalities surrounding

5:09:07us to find out what what what that is and then to take in some of the consideration that councils

5:09:12had uh regarding you know the the impact to the public so we would come up with a recommendation

5:09:18based on all that okay okay thank you for that it's good to hear that you'll take into account the

5:09:22the impact to the public thank you all right i'm going to call the vote then on this one okay

5:09:30so is there anyone against that just councillor Busuttil is against increasing fines and katin

5:09:36so that's two two are against the increasing of fines okay and then and then let's go to your

5:09:41last one councillor to you which was i'm so sorry i can't remember what it was i think it was up on

5:09:46screen let me that's not be directed to amend or replace the fireworks bylaw i don't know if the

5:09:55wording is really right to increase the number of allowed days that fireworks may be sold and

5:10:01discharged and to include other culturally significant days examples lunar new year and

5:10:08new year's eve and improve safety hmm okay i think you're on the right track i'm wondering if it's

5:10:17a little bit too much there is there a seconder for this one tell you at least get on the floor

5:10:22okay uh richards i will go over it's from the floor over to you go ahead okay just to lay the

5:10:30context here and i apologize to my colleagues that this was produced last minute and i know that i

5:10:37can sense the energy in the room but just going just to the public the folks in the public who are

5:10:44watching and to kind of play on the emphasis of education i was looking at the slide deck that we

5:10:51were presented beginning of the month and this is option two that was available and i essentially

5:10:57want to find a way in which we can codify more culturally significant holidays to be part of

5:11:05the consider list of considerations for our new bylaw um and this is all part of the education

5:11:11piece i don't want to go off further on this but like for me i want more regulation but the but i

5:11:17also want to acknowledge the practicality of where we are and for me this is why i'm leaning heavily

5:11:22on to education and suggesting to staff and to my colleagues as well to consider other cultural

5:11:29we significant days primarily lunar new year and new year's eve because currently we only allow for

5:11:37dolly if i'm correct and this is open for debate of course of course it's already moved and seconded

5:11:43so it's it's always open for debate i'm just i'm just going to be blunt right off the top here

5:11:49i believe what you're really just trying to do is to add two more dates you don't have to get into

5:11:54safety yes you don't have to get into education that's all taken care of already by our staff

5:12:00that's already embedded in everything so my advice to you is that you remove this motion

5:12:06and you just write a motion that just adds the two dates to the schedule of dates allowable within

5:12:13the bylaw and that's it and let our staff take away the rest of it i think the rest of it there is

5:12:17complicating a lot of things so i'm going to pause for a moment and go to you as the mover

5:12:23would you agree to do do it that way or do you want your motion to stand

5:12:28councillor too i'm asking you a question uh yes mayor gut three that's exactly the intent

5:12:33and i'm just i'm just seeking for guidance and help from staff and colleagues to get to that point

5:12:38but councillor too as the chair i am giving you that guidance yeah yeah so i appreciate it great

5:12:45so if you could answer my question which was do you mind removing your motion yes so that you

5:12:50can write a motion that is clear to just add those two dates to the actual allowable dates within the

5:12:56fireworks bylaw yeah that works for me so richarton are you okay with removing your seconder for now

5:13:02and is anyone against that on council nobody so let's let's answer everyone i'm we're about to

5:13:12have our own fireworks in here okay no safe distances with me right now can we please have

5:13:19councillor too can you please get on your keyboard and work with clerks to get that done is it already

5:13:25done is it edited councillor Allt i see you but we're pausing for a moment because i got to deal with

5:13:33this issue to our bylaw manager to do did you want to say something yeah just to you councillor

5:15:36the way that the motion is being drafted right now it's being sold and discharged

5:15:41so the you'll restrict the selling for two days only that's so i think that if you're adding days

5:15:51we can reflect that the current you know days that sales are permitted and amend it so that there's

5:15:57there's the ability to purchase before those days okay we're good we're gonna we're gonna just allow

5:16:07the clerks to capture that okay and and councillor Chew we'll just wait for a moment beautiful there it is

5:16:26councillor Chew it's your motion do you agree with this motion to table yes this is beautiful

5:16:32you don't have to copy me but okay and councillor richardson you okay yes seconding that okay it's

5:16:38as simple as increasing the number of allowable days for the fireworks to include lunar new year

5:16:44and new year's eve with that being stated councillor Allt has a question first then boost

5:16:50sorry then or work thank you mayor guthrie i have no problem with recognizing these cultural

5:16:56celebrations and if we are going to include fireworks including them in but the quest

5:17:01begs another question and that is removing certain days one of the days that i think we still

5:17:07recognize as a fireworks day is victoria day and i'm not certain how culturally relevant that one

5:17:13is and i'm wondering if staff could take it under consideration that there might be days that should

5:17:18be removed as well okay call uh council oh boy i've lost i've lost it councillor clackbush uh our

5:17:27deputy ceo calling clackbush sorry so through the mayor i think one of the things that we're

5:17:34struggling with is um sending us away to make that decision what i mean there could be lots of

5:17:40culturally significant days and so i think that opens a significant challenge for us especially

5:17:46to bring this back in a complete bylaw i do also want to flag the motion as it just appeared on

5:17:52screen still doesn't talk about the sale so it's only allowing the discharge and the current bylaw

5:17:59is very clear about there are only certain days in a year where you can sell fireworks and so and

5:18:06that was actually misstated i think in a couple of the delegations that you heard tonight currently

5:18:11the bylaw that stands now because you haven't amended it or changed it only allows the sale of

5:18:17fireworks leading up to victoria day and canada day so if you add additional days you need to add

5:18:26the sale and i would also note we do not currently under the bylaw allow the sale of fireworks leading

5:18:33up to duwali we allow the discharge of fireworks but not the sale and again we didn't address that

5:18:39because it was the staff recommendation that the entire bylaw was being changed so given the current

5:18:45trajectory that we are on we need very clear direction on which days in the year and that it

5:18:53is to include the sale as well as the discharge of fireworks and at this point as i think we

5:19:01understand it it's victoria day canada day duwali and then adding in the lunar new year and new

5:19:08year's eve but we very much need that direction we we i think we all really appreciate that that

5:19:16guidance there there's a ton of nuance as you rightly raised so um so councillor uh orork please

5:19:25why don't after that uh thank you margithry i'm looking at the city of web wealth website

5:19:30under fireworks fireworks displays are allowed on private property on the day before on the day of

5:19:36victoria day the day before on the day of canada day duwali either october or november depending

5:19:40on the cycle of the moon than other religious events approved by the guelph fire department

5:19:45so people can go now right and as permitted by the guelph fire chief so rather than dream something up

5:19:56on the spot when we've been in eating since three o'clock and the public has not had an

5:20:01opportunity to delegate um my position is going to be that the existing bylaw already allows for

5:20:08and the existing bylaw already allows for a licensed prior technician who wants to do something in

5:20:14a park to get a special event permit and and they work with the fire department to make sure that

5:20:19that's so that is also still permitted under the existing bylaw so i don't want to add or

5:20:24subtract tonight with zero consultation um because i think the existing bylaw allows for that okay

5:20:33councillor too i think you're go ahead just say what you want to say so i appreciate all the clarity

5:20:39tonight it's a little messy i apologize and i appreciate my colleagues clarification that um

5:20:47so i'm happy to withdraw the motion as it stands and we'll just be on our way okay all right um

5:20:54councillor richardson's okay for removing the seconder is anyone against that on council that

5:20:59would be nobody thank you um uh just before i go uh to end this conversation we can move into the

5:21:06chairs and vice chairs issue councillor downer did you have another question on this issue

5:21:10well i i just why do we have in the current bylaw the day before and the day of

5:21:17pictoriation like why is there and the day before canada day like i don't understand this day before

5:21:23or stuff because i mean that you said the status quo isn't good well that's part of the problem is

5:21:31so that it happens all weekend it's so on those days so like if we're looking at specific days i'd

5:21:39rather have specific days rather than what what it's saying here where it can be any religious

5:21:46holiday or or as permitted by the fire chief it just seems we need the list of specific dates

5:21:53like we had in the bylaw that was before us tonight the recommendations that that that would be my

5:22:00recommendation i don't like the day before piece of the day before um i'm supportive of the days

5:22:10that and that that would sort of help with that the status quo isn't good that it's not the whole

5:22:16weekend uh through the mayor to councillor downer i believe that day before victoria day or canada

5:22:22day was to allow for the discharge on a saturday when canada day fell on a sunday so kids could

5:22:29stay up a little bit later and watch the fireworks i think that was the the original intent that was

5:22:35a original intent but that wasn't your recommendation in the bylaw coming forward through the mayor to

5:22:40councillor downer uh correct we're recommending that it be limited because of of the complaints that

5:22:45we get on the weekends what could i just would i move that the dates that's in the recommended

5:22:53bylaw be that the fire law fireworks only be loud on the days that were in the recommended bylaw

5:23:01as of this date is that the motion that i would can i just ask um i remember one year i remember

5:23:17one year there was i was going to something and it was a grained out and then it was like moved to

5:23:22the next day to allow that is that is that uh does that cover it off then in the current bylaw if

5:23:32there's a inclement weather issue to the mayor in the past we've we've discharged fireworks

5:23:42on new year's eve and that sort of thing for other celebrations that were approved by the fire chief

5:23:47so there has been there has been dates that have been amended so i guess i could just

5:23:56say that that the day before victoria day and the day before canada day be removed from the current

5:24:04bylaw so sorry councillor Allt will second that so it's to remove the the day before issue on the

5:24:25dates of significance of when they would be actually discharged and um to our deputy cio

5:24:37to our deputy cio a clock bush did you want to jump in as that's being crafted just

5:24:41what was the other day victoria day through the mayor so thank you um so i think that gives us

5:24:47the clarity i would still just remind council that at this point we still do not permit the sale

5:24:52of fireworks leading into de wally unless somebody makes that motion for us to add that in

5:24:58so those are just the two things so yeah i think as we're working this through i do councillor yep

5:25:03so i think the first piece about councillor downer's motion um i i will say that i think we're the way

5:25:10that staff was proposing this was intended to um you know we've deviated from the staff recommendation

5:25:16and so if you hear us we're struggling a little bit down here it's because a lot of this is on the

5:25:20fly and also there is still now a burden remaining on the fire chief um to uh be approving um particular

5:25:27exemptions and exceptions which i think we were hoping to get more specificity if i can use that

5:25:32word again but again um any clarity that you are giving us is helpful so yeah what i'll what i'll do

5:25:40is i'll just handle councillor downer's motion and then we'll deal with the sale issue for de

5:25:44wally okay okay councillor downer just you got your microphone councillor downer councillor downer

5:25:52councillor downer got your microphone on yep um do we have the motion up on the screen yet clerks

5:26:00okay no problem councillor ulti i think i already said his second thing okay so here it is to remove

5:26:14the day before victoria day and canada day from the current fireworks bylaw okay any issues from

5:26:22staff on that it would limit it now to just those days um as described hold on i do have a question

5:26:33what does our current bylaw say about de wally then i'm just wondering if that needs to be

5:26:42added so that's put it on that day not be day before or anything like that i just want to make sure

5:26:51dug uh to and merah believe it's quite specific for de wally okay i just want to make sure cool

5:26:58just want to make sure as we're trying to do things on the fly and we're catching things too okay

5:27:04all right uh question from councillor chute and i'm going to call the and a question from

5:27:07councillor gibson and then i'm going to call the vote yeah just uh to the mayor to staff i just want

5:27:12to be very i just want to have some clarity because i'm looking at the city's website and it says in

5:27:17golf firework displays are allowed on private property and there's a whole list but the end

5:27:23there it says as permitted by the golf fire chief so if someone if a group of a group wanted to come

5:27:29in for a lunar new year or de wally could they as right as of right now like seek that approval from

5:27:38you as a chief i'm not going to allow that question right now that's a question that's

5:27:44not relevant to the motion that's on the floor so please just park that for now okay i need to call

5:27:49the vote sorry councillor gibson i saw that you wanted to ask a question on the what's relevant

5:27:53on the floor no not a question just a quick comment uh i feel like there's unintended

5:28:01consequences to making this decision um and i i'm begging forgiveness because i feel naive in

5:28:08saying that but i believe the idea of candidate day falling on a tuesday and everyone wanted to

5:28:15celebrate it on monday or victoria day uh people wanted to set off their fireworks on the sunday

5:28:21or saturday night instead of the monday i feel like we are risking more here than just a simple

5:28:29let's just get rid of one day also the rain have dates i think that's an important one to

5:28:32consider too so i'm gonna say i'm gonna vote against this one because i don't like the idea of

5:28:38controlling the number of days but i do believe there's going to be unintended consequences

5:28:43for those big uh celebration days and so for that reason i'm just gonna say no now and you know

5:28:51whatever happens happens but i'm sure staff are able to take this away and come back with something

5:28:56a bit more formalized if this is if this is something that fails staff can still consider it as

5:29:04something that's council is aware of okay thank you okay i'm gonna call the vote on

5:29:12councillor downer's motion is anybody against that one okay so it's chu richardson

5:29:22three just one second i'm counting billings gibson i'm not clear what we're voting on your

5:29:28worship can i sit on the screen okay yep we'll put up on the screen so how are you voting so we're

5:29:42good same all those against please raise your hand one more time for the clerks got three chu

5:29:51richardson gibson billings it's five passes okay we still have to take care of as our deputy

5:30:03indicated the is it i'm so sorry is it the sale um for duwali

5:30:11so through mr. mayor yes and i'll uh defer to mr god but i believe currently the bylaw allows the

5:30:17sale of fireworks up to seven days up to and including the day of victoria day and canada day

5:30:23but we currently do not have a clause in our bylaw permitting the sale in advance of duwali

5:30:28we didn't add it in because we weren't proposing this change to the bylaw but now that we're here

5:30:32i think it would be important from an equity point of view to add that in permitting the sale of

5:30:37fireworks for the seven days leading up to and including duwali okay and who would be willing

5:30:42to do that richardson would you be willing to do that could you send a quick email to clerks please

5:30:48and who would be willing to second that okay gibson so i believe the language is

5:31:04seven days prior to up to seven days prior to and clerks whenever you have it ready just

5:31:47to throw it up on the screen for us there thank you so much the sale of fireworks is just

5:32:24directed i think then i think it was supposed to be permitted but the sale of fireworks be permitted

5:32:34up to seven days prior to do we have to add all the victoria day canada day and duwali no i thought

5:32:40it was just duwali okay okay um to our deputy ceo could you please say it one more time so that

5:32:52we can get the proper wording so through the uh through mr. mayor to uh mr. godfrey i don't

5:32:59recall what the words are for canada day and victoria day in the current bylaw we want to

5:33:03mimic that so doug can you help uh uh that's through to the mayor that's to the mayor i believe

5:33:10that that's correct we get the the the direction that the sale of fireworks be restricted to seven

5:33:15days prior to victoria day seven days prior to canada day and seven days prior to duwali

5:33:20so you're okay with that perfect all right i'm going to call the vote on that then okay is there

5:33:26anyone against that okay just councillor Goller is against adding the sale for duwali okay thank you

5:33:35that passes okay um is there anything more on fireworks or can i okay councillor your worship

5:33:42um just go back to to the comment that you made that the status quo couldn't you know wouldn't

5:33:48stand um and when we did our public engagement uh we did a survey we we heard from 56 of the

5:33:55community that wanted a fireworks ban only 35 that was against the ban um and i'm wondering

5:34:02through you to staff is there anything else at this point that we should do

5:34:06to improve the situation in reference to your question your worship that um things

5:34:13things are not working well at the moment uh and stuff came forward with the recommendation

5:34:17which this body decided to reject uh and i'm very concerned that we haven't actually made things better

5:34:23for people that have concerns for the 56 percent of gulf residents that wanted a total ban so through

5:34:29you to staff are is there anything else at this point that you might recommend uh that council could

5:34:35do to improve your ability to manage in particular the the use of fireworks on days when they're

5:34:42not permitted before and after the permitted days i i kind of feel like this question is out of order

5:34:50like the votes are all done if you have a motion that you want to bring forward to consider further

5:34:55because i mean we've we've already we've already done that as a council we've already considered

5:34:59things um we have made changes we've made changes to education to sale to the days to the hours allowed

5:35:12so the status quo isn't there on those at least those four things that i can remember

5:35:18if you have a specific suggestion go for it but i i don't think it's i think i don't think it's to

5:35:24our staff to figure out something more that you think is missing i think it's up to you to

5:35:29determine what you think is missing and present it to council well uh go ahead i'll give you the floor

5:35:33yeah of course your worship uh staff took the time to develop a well recent proposal for us

5:35:40we set that aside and we've taken a piecemeal approach to pick this and that and that on a on a

5:35:47on the fly so at this point i just want to go back to staff and think council did this on the fly

5:35:53we put this on this on the moment on the spot many of these motions just came forward

5:35:58is there anything from their perspective that we missed by not taking a well considered approach

5:36:06i still think this is out of order i really do it's up to us to determine if we've determined

5:36:12something i think maybe a different way of asking your question and you correct me if i'm wrong

5:36:16again i'm not trying to be argumentative here is is there any decisions that council has made

5:36:21tonight that is problematic for you to implement what we've made as decisions

5:36:27i don't think it's in order for you to ask is there anything more that you want to do

5:36:31because that's not up to staff staff came back to us after engagement and we we have determined as

5:36:37a council well how we want to move forward so again if you have a new idea go ahead and present it

5:36:42but as chair i'm going to call it out of order that you're asking our staff to come up with something

5:36:46new when we've already made that i'm not your worship i'm just okay you go ahead i'm just asking

5:36:50if there was anything that that we may have missed based on the extensive public engagement that was

5:36:57done and the recommendations that were forward that were worked forward by staff because we have

5:37:03i'm seeing i'm seeing heads say no i i no i'm sorry Colleen i'm going to call it out of order i

5:37:10have to be as the chair the chair so i'll leave it back to you do you have do you have an idea of

5:37:16what you think you need to bring forward well i don't i don't think we should allow staff to enter

5:37:21into adding something more that they feel is necessary when it's up to us to determine that

5:37:27right right um see my concern your worship we took the time we did over six months of community

5:37:35engagement we heard back from the community and we made a decision that was against that feedback

5:37:39from the community so i just want to make sure that in doing this on the fly making choosing this

5:37:45and that i'm feel that we may have missed something that that by setting aside the staff recommendation

5:37:52is there something from the staff recommendation that we should go back and address because we've

5:37:58taken the existing bylaw we've added this and that and that without a coordinated approach

5:38:05and i am concerned that we may have missed something i think i think it's not fair to i

5:38:11i'm calling it out of order okay okay that's if you want to challenge me on that go ahead

5:38:15councillor Caron do you want to challenge me on that but i i i want to comment on it

5:38:23no from a procedural point of view no there's no comment allowed from a procedural point of view

5:38:28if there's a counselor that wants to challenge my ruling as the chair then you can do so now

5:38:35okay so that's my ruling as the chair okay i am going to similarly ask a question though

5:38:41because i feel it's maybe relevant to what you're trying to get at i'll say it again

5:38:46does staff feel that any of the decisions that council has made tonight

5:38:51are impeding your ability to implement our decisions tonight uh to you very no

5:39:00then this matter is done okay and we're going to move on thank you very much for everybody