Staff to create a new permit-based fireworks by-law to replace and repeal Fireworks By-law (1993)-14362.

44:39fireworks bylaw review, and we're going to hear from Deputy CAO Clark Bush first before we go

44:46to Mr. Parr, who will give a presentation. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Downer. Good afternoon,

44:53everyone. I just wanted to really quickly, before Jamie Jackson with the presentation,

44:57provide some clarity for Council and for the public, because we've had a number of questions,

45:02ironically, maybe perhaps connected to what Mayor Guthrie was just alluding to,

45:07questions about why are staff bringing bylaws forward and under what timelines. And so I just

45:12wanted to provide the clarity for Council on this fireworks bylaw in particular, but on all of our

45:16bylaw reviews, just for that reminder that back in July of 2023, we brought forward the draft

45:25schedule of bylaw reviews, and at that time, Council considered them, gave us some feedback,

45:30and in particular, passed a motion directing staff to consider how we could accelerate the

45:36schedule and the plan on this upcoming bylaw that you're about to hear about the fireworks bylaw.

45:40So Council, it was on for a later date, and Council gave specific direction to staff

45:45that we were to move this bylaw review earlier, specifically to regulate the display, sale,

45:50and setting off of fireworks. And so we then came back in October of 2023, and I will send the link

45:57out to all of Council, but for anyone listening online, that was on October the 20th, that report

46:02came back out with the final schedule for bylaws that are on the work plan for the Operations

46:07Department. So on that schedule, you would have seen then the revised date for the fireworks

46:12bylaw review, which was Q4 of 2024, as well as obviously the residential security cameras,

46:18which you've just voted on. So we did move the fireworks bylaw up at Council's request,

46:24but if anybody is interested in what bylaws are on the work plan for future, I will send the link

46:31out to members of Council, but it is available on the city's website, and that report was released

46:36on October 20th, 2023. And that is the work plan that we now follow moving forward in terms of those

46:43bylaw reviews. So with that, I will turn it over to Mr. Parr, who's going to do a presentation for

46:48you on our fireworks bylaw. Thank you very much DCAO Clark Bush for the introduction.

47:11Hello, Mayor and Councilors. My name is Jamie Parr, and I am the Service Performance Development

47:16Analyst for Operations. I am here today to present the fireworks bylaw review. The purpose of this

47:25report is to present the findings of the fireworks bylaw review that city staff conducted as directed

47:31by Council. Staff are also seeking Council's approval for the creation of a fireworks bylaw

47:37based on a permit system. Fireworks have historically been used to celebrate certain events in

47:45Guelph. Guelph allows the use of fireworks for Canada Day, Victoria Day, and Diwali. Fireworks

47:52light up the night sky and can provide enjoyment and a sense of community for those participating

47:58in or watching these displays. However, the noise, light, and pollution they generate can have a

48:08negative impact on people, animals, and nature. Noise pollution. Noise from fireworks can reach

48:15levels as high as 120 to 170 decibels. This sound can disrupt sleep, trigger PTSD,

48:23and disrupt plants and wildlife. Chemical and physical pollution. Fireworks can

48:31release many contaminants that may affect air quality, including carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide,

48:37nitrogen, sulfur dioxide, heavy metals, and particulate matter. Toxic hazes created by

48:44particulate matter from fireworks can be hazardous, can be a hazardous air pollution

48:49due to its ability to affect people's breathing. Debris from fireworks, casings, may fall into

48:56nearby properties posing a physical hazard. Additionally, leftover bases of fireworks may

49:02cause environmental pollution if not properly disposed of. Fire risks. In 2022, the Canadian

49:10Association of Fire Chiefs voted to pass resolution 2023.22.3 consumer fireworks. The resolution

49:20calls for fire chiefs to advocate for the banning of consumer fireworks. Guelph Fire Chiefs are a

49:28member of this association. Bottlely harm. A 2016 Consumer Project Safety Commission report

49:36noted that children under the age of 15 accounted for nearly one-third of fireworks-related injuries

49:42treated in emergency rooms in 2016. Young people, those 24 and younger,

49:49seem most at risk for injury. The potential harm from fireworks extends from minor burns to loss

49:54of fingers, damaged eyes, ears, and in very rare cases, death. Mental health and PTSD.

50:02Fireworks can be triggering for those individuals with PTSD. Even those without PTSD can be affected

50:09due to sleep disruptions and increased stress. Animals and pets. Fireworks can significantly

50:17impact animals, especially those with sensitive hearing, like cats, dogs, and birds. The loud

50:23noises and bright flashes can cause fear, panic, and anxiety in animals, leading to physical and

50:30emotional stress. Pets may try to run away or hide, causing them to get lost or injured.

50:37Wildlife can also be affected with birds and other animals abandoning their nests or habitat

50:43due to disturbances caused by fireworks. During this bylaw review, staff considered the following

50:53options. Option one. Keep existing days and improve safety measures. Option two. Increase the

51:02number of allowed days to include other culturally significant events and improve safety measures.

51:09Option three. Implement a permanent-based system for the current allowed days.

51:16And option four. A total ban. Community engagement. In adherence to Guelph's community engagement

51:27framework, we hosted two separate events in separate formats on different dates to create

51:32flexibility and options for those interested in participating. Along with this, we conducted an

51:38online survey. 1,327 communities participated in the survey.

51:50Staff found that 55% of respondents felt safe or very safe in relation to professional

51:56firework displays. Staff also found that 56% of respondents indicated they were supportive or

52:04very supportive of a total fireworks ban. Upon review of the comments provided throughout the

52:13survey, staff found several key themes emerge. The first theme was safety and environmental concerns.

52:21There is a widespread concern about the risk of fire, about, sorry, there's a

52:29widespread concern about the safety risks and environmental impacts of fireworks issues such

52:35as fire hazards, harm to wildlife and pollution were frequently mentioned. Noise and disturbances.

52:43Many respondents were troubled by the noise caused by fireworks, which can cause stress and

52:49anxiety for pets, wildlife and those who are neurodivergent or have PTSD. Regulation and improved

52:56enforcement. There was a strong call for better enforcement of existing bylaws and regulations

53:04suggestions included a permit system to ensure safety and limit disturbances.

53:12Preference for public versus private displays. A general preference of public professionally

53:18organized firework displays over private ones was expressed with alternatives such as drone shows

53:25or silent fireworks proposed. The last theme is cultural and community significance.

53:31While recognizing the traditional aspect of fireworks in celebration, there is a desire

53:36to balance this tradition with current safety and environmental concerns. So staff recommend

53:48a bylaw based on a permit system for large firework displays such as community, such

53:55sorry, staff recommend a bylaw based on a permit system for large firework displays such as community

54:01and special events. A permit would include a hundred dollar fee plus a fire inspection fee.

54:08A bylaw would include regulations such as a minimum safe distance from residences and

54:16vulnerable occupancies. Displays be discharged by a licensed display supervisor. Organizers

54:30have sufficient liability insurance. Inspections be conducted for safety. Fireworks be planned

54:37for acceptable times and locations. And organizers have a animal safety management plan.

54:45Staff feel that this strikes a balance between residents surveyed and cultural importance of

54:49fireworks for the communities. So the recommendation to counsel. Number one,

54:56that staff be directed to create a new permit based fireworks bylaw to replace and repeal

55:02fireworks bylaw 1993-14362. Thank you very much for giving me the opportunity to speak before you

55:11today about my fire boat staff fire works by law review. I'm happy to take questions now.

55:19Thank you, Mr. Parr. So as tradition will hold questions till after we listen to the delegates.

55:25So thank you. So we'll go right into the delegation list. And first off, we have Alex

55:36Shikoni and in the wings we have Priam Vias. Mr. Shikoni, you have up to five minutes to speak

55:50and there'll be a warning 30 seconds before that at that time. Perfect. Thank you very much, Chair.

55:56First of all, thank you for having me tonight and thank you to staff for putting together what I see

56:01is a really good and thorough review of this issue. For context, I'm an environmental and

56:06municipal lawyer and I do a lot of pro bono animal law work. I used to be a director of the

56:11Guelph Humane Society, although I'd recently retired after a few years and I just finished

56:15writing part of a textbook on fireworks and their impact on the environment, human and animal health

56:20for an environmental law textbook that is in its fourth edition. So this is an issue that's top of

56:25mind for me. I also just want to say it's not sort of a nimby issue for me. I'm sort of ashamed to

56:31say I actually used to love fireworks. I grew up nine hours north of here on 60 acres and I

56:36lit a lot of fireworks, like a lot of fireworks and other things that I probably shouldn't say

56:40publicly about playing with fire. But since then, of course, we've discovered that there are some big

56:46problems with fireworks that should lead to a different treatment of them. So in terms of

56:51environmental issues, as staff indicated, there are a number of chemicals that are emitted from

56:57fireworks that are known to cause spikes and asthma attacks afterward. And we know this from

57:02hospital reporting statistics. It's not an anecdote. In terms of the chemicals used, there are a

57:08number of chemicals that are used to produce different colors. So I think strontium use is

57:12used to produce red, copper is used to produce blue, etc. Some of these chemicals, oh sorry,

57:18I should just say perchlorate is added as an oxidizing agent. It gives you the boom in fireworks.

57:23These chemicals and some other ones are both persistent and bio-accumulative. So that means

57:29that they stay in the environment in water for a while or if an animal eats them, it sort of

57:33grows up the trophic levels and bio-accumulates. So that can be a problem. In addition, they're

57:40found to contribute significantly to microplastics in water. There was a recent study in the city of

57:45London, England, where 24 hours following fireworks display for New Year's, there was a 10 times

57:52increase in microplastics in the Thames River. So that's a pretty significant issue. And of course,

57:58as we know, the most direct issue is that fireworks can cause forest fires, which is why

58:04many police chiefs recommend a total ban. So not just a ban on consumer, but some are recommending

58:10a total ban. The primary issue when it comes to animal and human health is noise, of course,

58:17and we did hear that they can get up to 170 decibels, which for context is roughly the loudness of

58:24loud rifles, right? No coincidence that it triggers folks with PTSD because it's a similar volume

58:29and sound. This causes, and statistics tell us that a majority of cats and dogs experience fear

58:35and anxiety as a result of these, but also farm animals are known to jump out of their enclosures,

58:41sometimes hurting themselves on fences or running into traffic. What I think is one of the most

58:46significant issues though is migratory and large birds get disoriented by fireworks. So they often

58:51will fall into traffic and die. This isn't a hypothetical. It's a local issue. Local humane

58:58societies have in Wellington County found numerous Canada geese who are killed after fireworks

59:04displays and I'm talking public fireworks displays. So unfortunately, even letting

59:10these sort of sanctioned well controlled fireworks displays 100% will result in the death of

59:15migratory birds like Canada geese. This is why humane societies recommend alternatives to fireworks,

59:24such as drone shows, light displays, laser displays, or silent fireworks. I'll admit that I'm not an

59:31expert in human health, but I do know that folks with PTSD can be largely triggered by fireworks.

59:37I actually spoke at the City of Kitchener last night on this issue who coincidentally had their

59:41review of this issue on the agenda. And I'll say that one of the delegates who spoke was

59:47Alayne Kanji, who I understand might be speaking tonight. And in response to the alternatives

59:52said that folks can be triggered by drones as well. That might be true. I'm not sure, but if that

59:58spurious argument is brought up, I would ask Council to consider what is more significant in terms of

1:00:03triggering PTSD, the sound of explosives, or the software of drones, which again is just one of

1:00:09the many alternatives. So I'll close by saying that Section 121 of the Municipal Act does give

1:00:16very clear authority to municipalities to regulate fireworks in whatever way they want. They can

1:00:21allow them outright, they can regulate them, they can create a permitting system, or they can ban them.

1:00:27And I would respectfully suggest that the proposal by staff is good, but we can go further by enacting

1:00:34a future, sorry, a total ban, because to do otherwise will result in no one harm to humans

1:00:41and to animals. So with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. And I thank members for their time.

1:00:48Great. Thank you, Mr. Shikoni. Are there any questions? Mayor Guthrie?

1:00:54Thank you, Madam Chair, and through you to the delegate. Just I was just wondering, can you tell

1:01:00us what the, do you know what the outcome was of the Kitchener discussion in regards to whatever was

1:01:06proposed there? I do. So the City of Kitchener directed staff to come back with a more thorough

1:01:11review. Consider the City of Kitchener a few months behind Guelph in this regard. So they didn't come

1:01:16with a staff report like we've seen tonight. They're early in their stages of reviewing it.

1:01:22It's a great question. Apologies I sort of said through you, Chair. Okay, thank you so much. I

1:01:27appreciate that. Are there any other questions? Councillor Allt? Thank you, Chair. I hope you

1:01:39can hear me okay. My signal is not very good. Through you to Mr. Shikoni. Mr. Shikoni, thank

1:01:45you for your presentation. I've heard very clearly you're concerned about chemicals,

1:01:49noise, and safety and the endangerment of wildlife and other animals. I am wondering about the

1:01:58efficacy of fireworks with laser light shows such as what are being done in different localities.

1:02:07Can you comment on that? Through you, Chair. I think you cut out a little bit, but I think the

1:02:13question was about whether there are any impacts to these alternatives. Did I hear that correctly?

1:02:19No, I was somewhat. I'm wondering about whether fireworks can appropriately be replaced

1:02:27with laser light shows and music sound shows. Thank you for your question. And through you,

1:02:34Chair, I think it's a great question. I think the question is how do we balance cultural celebration

1:02:40with very real impacts to environment and animals? And that's a balance. I have an opinion on it,

1:02:46but Council will need to come to its own opinion. I think my goal tonight is just to make that

1:02:52decision a bit clearer. I want Council to know that if they do decide to allow some of these

1:02:56displays, it will result in known harm. It's not a hypothetical or a maybe. So will these

1:03:01sufficiently replace it? I'm not sure. I think it depends on who you ask. I know that they've been

1:03:06largely successful in the many municipalities across Canada that have done an outright ban,

1:03:11but of course not everyone feels that way, right? There are strong cultural ties with fireworks,

1:03:16but they do come at a cost. It's a great question. That's absolutely the core issue.

1:03:23Thank you. Are there any other questions of the day with it? Okay, seeing none. Thank you very

1:03:28much. Thank you. Priyanka Bias. Welcome. I have been here five minutes. Thank you.

1:03:44Good afternoon, everybody. I work with Fatwa fireworks in KWC and Wolf region.

1:03:50Today I want to address the city of Gualt's consideration of a change in fireworks by law

1:03:55with permit only and the other four option currently under review. While I understand

1:03:59the intention behind this discussions, I strongly believe that option one and two,

1:04:04keeping the existing days while improving safety and expanding allowed

1:04:08days to include other culturally significant celebration are the most beneficial parts forward.

1:04:15First of all, when any particular fireworks are brought to the country, they have to

1:04:20pass through an intense examination by the federal agents called ERD, Explosive and Regulatory

1:04:25Advice. And then and then after a fireworks can be decided whether it is a professional

1:04:30gate fireworks or a consumer gate fireworks, whatever fireworks we sell at our stands temporarily

1:04:37for the Victoria Day, Canada Day and Diwali. They are all consumer gate fireworks.

1:04:43Fireworks are more than just the colorful displays. They represent joy, tradition,

1:04:47and community spirit. By maintaining the existing days, we can celebrate our heritage while also

1:04:52focusing on enhancing safety measures. This could include better public education on safe practices

1:04:59and stronger enforcement against illegal sales. Moreover, option two offers an exciting opportunity

1:05:07to recognize the diverse culture of golf by allowing fireworks on additional culturally

1:05:12significant days. This not only fosters inclusivity, but also enriches our community celebration.

1:05:20To draw back with the option three, many people do not know about such procedures,

1:05:25how to get the permit and all the other stuff related to the permit. Some people,

1:05:30they might even not going to apply for the permit. By their actions, the rest of the people who

1:05:35applied for the permit and went through all the procedures, they're going to stop applying for

1:05:38the permits to. Rather than considering a total ban, which would extinguish the vibrant experience

1:05:44that fireworks bring, let's focus on how we can celebrate safely and responsibility

1:05:49by improving safety measures and expanding our celebration days.

1:05:54Ban of fireworks will create a complete black market of fireworks in the city.

1:06:00In the city like Vancouver, Surrey, Brampton, Woodstock, Milton, all of the cities who have

1:06:06banned the fireworks sale and everything, there are people still in those cities celebrating fireworks.

1:06:13There are people in the cities who are selling fires with their garages,

1:06:18no permits, no insurance, nothing. And they are working so silently that they are even selling

1:06:27the fireworks which are already banned like firecrackers, skyrockets. They're also selling

1:06:31those kind of fireworks from their houses, garages and everything. So that option four can create

1:06:38a complete black market in our own city. Lastly, many people like me rely on fireworks for their

1:06:46lively hurts. Hiro techniques, event organizers and local businessmen benefit from these celebrations.

1:06:53A ban would hurt these professions and local economies. Let's not extinguish the spark of

1:06:58fireworks. Instead, let's find a way to celebrate safely and responsibly. Thank you.

1:07:05Thank you, Mr. Byers. Are there any questions, Councillor Bruce?

1:07:10Thank you very much for your delegation. Just I might have missed it at the beginning, Mr.

1:07:14Byers. Do you sell fireworks? Is that your business? Through you. Yeah, I sell fireworks.

1:07:21Thank you. Are there any other questions? I see none. Thank you very much. Thank you.

1:07:29Okay, now we have Tom Jacobs from the Rocket Fireworks. Welcome. You have five minutes to.

1:07:43Thanks for having me speak. First, the number 170 decibels has been stated a few times. So just to

1:07:51be clear, that decibel number is only for professional fireworks. So it's for what's

1:07:56called display fires, which the public can't use. So the public decibel level allowed for consumer

1:08:03fireworks is 120 decibels at distance, so which at ground level, that is an effective decibel level

1:08:11of about 100, 100 to 110, which is the decibel level of, say, a drill. So it's not consumer

1:08:19fireworks do not have, they don't result in a rifle shot sound like professional fireworks may.

1:08:25And what I will be arguing for today is that consumer fireworks do not cause harm and should be

1:08:29allowed. Secondly, I understand that I didn't write a textbook, but I did go to law school and

1:08:35among various other higher institutions and I will be citing some facts today, which are

1:08:41contrary to some of the facts we heard. And I just wanted to be careful that the tendency to rely on

1:08:48the status of the speaker for credibility. The speaker may be credible, but there are contrary

1:08:55facts which are in resources and texts, which I'll be bringing to light. So with that, let me get

1:09:02into my presentation. So given that the current bylaw limits consumer fireworks usage to one's

1:09:09private property on only three occasions per year, Victoria Day, Canada Day, and Diwali,

1:09:16it's hard to see the sense in adding a permit requirement for personal use of fireworks.

1:09:21As a professional fire technician and someone who also works in fireworks product development,

1:09:25there's no doubt that consumer fireworks can be used safely by the public.

1:09:30Of the 4,000 legal fireworks products authorized in Canada, there are safe, suitable choices for

1:09:35just about any space. All products are tested rigorously by the federal government, which then

1:09:41certifies them or does not, for safe use by the public. And the rest comes down to education by

1:09:48specialized retailers to the clients and also by the municipality, as well as proper enforcement

1:09:55against misuse. I don't see a need for a cumbersome bureaucratic process for personal use

1:10:01when for those three days per year, we can accomplish the objectives of public safety,

1:10:05being a good neighbor, and adhering to best practices by more efficient means.

1:10:10It's important to remember that in the end, we are talking about three days per year

1:10:14of personal fireworks usage. If some people lack interest or perhaps even find a particular

1:10:19activity distasteful, can they not tolerate just three evenings per year? Clearly, a significant

1:10:25portion of our community enjoys and eerily looks forward to fireworks celebrations as an opportunity

1:10:31for family gathering, neighborhood or community building in the practice of age-old cultural

1:10:35traditions. I would suggest the cause for concern is not in fact about three days, but about illegal

1:10:41use. For example, use in public parks or after the 11 p.m. noise by-law cutoff or in days other

1:10:47than Victoria Day, Canada Day or D'O'Ali. To this, we need stricter legal measures against

1:10:52misuse, which include stronger fines for usage of fireworks during non-sanctioned periods.

1:10:57We also need better education from retailers on best practices, something which the CFNA can help

1:11:02to provide, and is done in other communities. Should we prohibit fireworks use altogether

1:11:09because misuse may lead to undesirable consequences? If this were the case, then we would not allow

1:11:15prescription medication, the sale of power tools or drinking alcohol. But what of the use of fireworks

1:11:21is not just distasteful for some people, but actually harmful? As the public and governments

1:11:25become more keenly aware of what impacts human behavior is having on our environment, fireworks

1:11:31too have been questioned on their environmental repercussions. According to Gary Wheeler,

1:11:35spokesperson for the Ministry of Environment and Climate Change, consumer fireworks used by the

1:11:40public on an infrequent basis, for example, a few times per year, have no notable impact on the

1:11:45environment. The minerals they contain, this is consumer fireworks again, are not harmful to

1:11:51aquatic life or drinking water. The fact that most municipalities have laws in place limiting

1:11:55fireworks usage to the public to a few times per year makes them transient and therefore

1:12:00inconsequential environmentally speaking. Another frequent concern has to do with pets.

1:12:06For example, dog owners sometimes complain that their animals are distressed by fireworks. So,

1:12:12there are simple solutions to this, like walking your dog during the day before the displays,

1:12:18playing gentle music, or keeping your dog indoors. So, we all love pets and I have them

1:12:24myself, but I'd hate to think of small inconvenience to the pets a few times per year is going to

1:12:28dictate what's legal and illegal in the city. So, lastly, as far as wildlife goes, protection and

1:12:35preservation is one of my passions and naturally we should be concerned for the well-being. Studies

1:12:39have shown that just as in thunderstorms, wildlife will have a natural instinct to flee or scatter

1:12:44during fireworks displays. Mr. Jacob, that ends your five minutes. Okay, I take ten seconds to finish.

1:12:49Just one more sentence. One more sentence, please. It's normal for them to ski, for them to scatter

1:12:55or flee from loud noises like thunderstorms, but although they disperse, they do come back

1:13:00and they don't permanently leave their habitats or anything as he's been suggested.

1:13:05I cut myself short, but thank you very much for your time and I would welcome you.

1:13:08Are there any questions for Mr. Jacobs? Okay, seeing none. Thank you very much.

1:13:15Thank you. Okay, Mr. Aleem Kenji, please. Okay, you have five minutes to make your delegation.

1:13:43Good afternoon, Madam Chair, members of council. I did submit a presentation

1:13:48to the clerk. I understand that it's, I think there's some issues of getting it loaded, so I'm

1:13:53going to have it up on here and with your indulgence, I'm going to walk you through

1:13:58what I'm here to speak about and thank you for having me. I would just like to make a correction,

1:14:02so it wasn't that they had trouble loading it, it didn't come in in time at the deadline, so

1:14:07you're welcome to send that to council. I don't know if most of us won't see that, but that's fine.

1:14:12You might want to send it to council after the meeting, all of council and the mayor.

1:14:18The other thing too about your presentation, there is another meeting on this topic at the

1:14:22end of the month, October 29th, where you can do a presentation at that time. Thank you.

1:14:28With your indulgence, Madam Chair, I may ask to reset the time and I can start from the beginning.

1:14:33Thank you so much. So my name is Aleem Kenji. I am the Chief Advocacy Officer of the Canadian

1:14:38National Fireworks Association, representing importers, distributors, retailers,

1:14:44including about half a dozen in this community of Guelph. We promote the safe access to what is a

1:14:53very highly regulated and legal industry. Over 4,000 fireworks products are tested

1:14:59strenuously at the federal level. They're allowed to be sold and they're regulated through provincial

1:15:05bodies like the Ontario Fire Code. And there are many, obviously in this community, that enjoy

1:15:12fireworks. We work with regulators on our vendor certification employee training program,

1:15:19our Be a Good Neighbor program. I have provided copies of that to you prior to the meeting. You

1:15:25should have those pamphlets in front of you. And for those watching, all of our materials are at

1:15:31nationalfireworks.ca. We take the stance that industry and government must both accept the

1:15:37responsibility to create education, vendor certification. We've seen that embedded in

1:15:43bylaws across the country and some of the things that we do in training for users.

1:15:50This is our Be a Good Neighbor program. It reminds people under the federal rules to do

1:15:55what they need to do when using fireworks, prepare ahead of time, respect the environment,

1:16:00celebrate responsibly, inform your neighbors, be safe when using fireworks, and of course,

1:16:06clean up. And here are copies of our research publications. I'd like to turn our attention to

1:16:14the report that's in front of you today. I'm not sure there was any real consultation with the

1:16:20industry. I know one of the options obviously seeks to ban fireworks. Permit fees I know were

1:16:26addressed earlier. Unfortunately, they will be a hindrance. I think they may be appropriate for

1:16:32larger scale events for personal use as we heard earlier. People will not apply for them. And that's

1:16:38been our experience in cities across the country. We heard earlier about Diwali and Lunar New Year

1:16:46of obviously, you know, where permits can be used and Diwali, of course, being a day where fireworks

1:16:53can be used. As we all know, Guelph, Wellington County, and other communities are not islands.

1:16:58People will proceed to purchase fireworks if this community supports a ban from other places. They'll

1:17:05buy them online. They may resort to even making them themselves. That could create even greater

1:17:11catastrophic risk for the residents and people of this community. And I think that's really important

1:17:16to point out from what is a very legal and regulated industry. The environmental impacts I know were

1:17:22mentioned earlier, but it's really important. I think as the mayor mentioned in the previous item,

1:17:27to separate the disinformation from the real facts. And I'd like to share those with you.

1:17:33A consumer fireworks display of about $1,000, which is a good community event,

1:17:40emits 1.25 kilograms of CO2. Take that to $500, which is also a pretty good size event. We're

1:17:48looking at 0.625 kilograms of CO2. A one hour car trip from Mississauga, just east of here,

1:17:56of course, to downtown Toronto, 19 kilograms of CO2. A propane gas tank for a backyard barbecue,

1:18:042.4 kilograms of CO2 per hour. So it's really important. These are a couple of examples

1:18:12where we look holistically at what the environmental impacts are. We're very proud

1:18:18that we have reduced our carbon footprint. In fact, one of our vendors reduced the carbon

1:18:24footprint by 70 metric tons per year and 200 metric tons in 2022. On the air quality impact,

1:18:31again, it's really important to look at the facts. And when you look at the facts, and I'm happy to

1:18:36share this with you in a report to the City of London from the Ontario Ministry of the Environment

1:18:41when looking at air quality and particulate matter, according to the Ministry of Environment

1:18:50of the Government of Ontario, there's no statistical proof that backyard fireworks are,

1:18:54for that matter, even commercial fireworks degrade our air quality index. We take our cues from the

1:19:03humane societies I know was mentioned earlier to follow the direction and to keep your pets

1:19:08indoors or perhaps take them for a walk before fireworks are used on the three permissible days.

1:19:14Coming to the ask, we would suggest that option one, keep the existing fire days be supported.

1:19:22Total ban, unfortunately, will not be enforced. I know it was mentioned earlier that the Canadian,

1:19:27that the fire chiefs have asked for that federally. Unfortunately, what is not in the report

1:19:32is that the federal government has turned that down three times. I'd be happy to take any of your

1:19:36questions. Right, thank you. Are there any questions? Councillor Awerk?

1:19:43Thank you, Chair Downer. Through you to Mr. Kanji. I'm just curious,

1:19:47how do you promote your education campaigns? Absolutely. And through you, Madam Chair, and

1:19:53it's a great question, Councillor Awerk. We take a lot of pride in using traditional media,

1:20:01social media to promote our Be a Good Neighbor program. You should have a copy of that in front

1:20:06of you. I spoke about it earlier. We've taken out billboards on the side of the 401. We pay for that

1:20:12ourselves. We come at no cost to communities. And you know, in successful communities that

1:20:17we've worked in, in London, Ontario, just down the highway from here is a great example of that.

1:20:23We've partnered with them. So they've looked at how they can use our education to inform the end

1:20:28user because ultimately, people in this community are still going to continue to use fireworks.

1:20:35And so the education aspect is really important. I will say this, though, if I may,

1:20:41to the Councillor, it will be extremely difficult to be able to work in a community

1:20:47to promote our education and the work that we do at no cost, wherein that community has taken

1:20:53the position to support a ban, which we know won't be enforced or adhered to by your residents.

1:21:00It'll be hard to do that because we're working at counter purposes. Our thinking really is,

1:21:06let's find ways to work together. I want to answer one other question, if I may, and that is around

1:21:11silent fireworks, which I think was brought up by the previous deputant. Unfortunately, the federal

1:21:17government doesn't define silent fireworks. They're actually not in the classification of

1:21:24how the federal government classifies fireworks. It's important to distill that,

1:21:28some of that disinformation that was shared earlier.

1:21:31Mr. Kanji, you just need to answer the question of the...

1:21:34Thank you. I hope that answers your question, Councillor.

1:21:36Thank you.

1:21:36Councillor Downer, I have a few more. Okay. So through you to Mr. Kanji, our proposal says you

1:21:42have to be a licensed display supervisor to be able to discharge the fireworks. And so what does

1:21:48that entail? So I know some folks who are pyrotechnic people who have all their licenses, but what's

1:21:54a licensed display supervisor? So look, there are regulations for the use of larger events for

1:22:04commercial grade fireworks to institute something like that on individual use of personal fireworks

1:22:15is something I will say respectfully that based on our experience in other cities across the

1:22:20country is not going to get adhered to. People are not going to be able to get that. We take

1:22:26pride of saying let's put the education at the point of sale, right? Through our programming

1:22:31and through our education, let that interaction happen through our retailers at the point of

1:22:36sale so that when someone from the public comes in to purchase fireworks, they are told, they are

1:22:42asked, what are you using it for? What's the celebration? How big is the area? And here are

1:22:47the products that we recommend. Not doing that will give people the ability to go to First Nations,

1:22:55go to the United States, try to make them at home, which again provides a bigger risk. But

1:23:01for certification on commercial grade events, that is I think a bit different than the personal

1:23:09use of fireworks. Again, the 4,000 products of which are approved for sale by the federal government

1:23:15through NRC and tested by the explosives regulatory division in the government of Canada.

1:23:21And Chair Downer, just the last one. So I understand you defending the model. I'm just curious

1:23:29why you think then there's a rash of communities that are either bringing forward an outright ban

1:23:36or restricting significantly the fireworks displays. Like what is the driving force

1:23:41behind this? Because we are seeing a number of Ontario municipalities moving to actually full bans.

1:23:48Through you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the question. It's an important one to be able to

1:23:53address. I will say this. I believe when looking at the evidence and when you look at communities

1:24:01that have banded, and I'm happy to talk about them based on our experience, what we've seen is

1:24:07which was alluded to earlier underground illegal enterprises rise through communities that have

1:24:20chosen to ban. And in fact, if we look to Western Canada, where they have had bans in place,

1:24:27what we've seen is actually communities enter back in and say, we can't police this, we can't

1:24:32enforce this. It's very hard to put that on to the chief and to bylaw because in a infraction

1:24:39and a fine can only be issued when you see somebody igniting the firework. And so by the time

1:24:44301 gets the call, by the time city officials arise, the delinquent user, if it is a delinquent

1:24:49user has left the scene. And so I think we need to be really careful when we talk about a rash

1:24:55of communities. We've seen Chatham Kent increase their bylaw to include additional days. London

1:25:01Ontario, Windsor, these are examples of communities, Ajax, that have increased the amount of days

1:25:07for fireworks and that know that by instituting a ban on something that is legal on a set of

1:25:14products that are legal only makes it more enticing to the public to try to make it themselves,

1:25:21create more community risk, and quite frankly, cause more disturbance to the communities. And

1:25:28I think that's the issue at play here is that, you know, regulations are meant to protect the public.

1:25:35We've seen what happened respectfully during COVID when we institute regulations

1:25:40on the public and some of the pushback that we get around that COVID is long and done and obviously

1:25:46over with. But I think we need to be really careful with promising things to the community by saying,

1:25:53we're going to protect you by having a ban. And again, our experience in communities, countless

1:25:58communities across this country is the enforceability of that ban. This is what communities

1:26:04are grappling with and why so many of them are saying, we can't actually enforce the ban.

1:26:10We're going to trust the public through regulations and we're actually going to

1:26:14have regulations that make sense. No fireworks in environmental areas, time curfews, and

1:26:20regulations that really speak to how the public should engage. Okay, thanks.

1:26:25Council Coran was next and then Council Boussatil.

1:26:30Thank you, through you, Madam Chair. What percentage, you represent a national association.

1:26:37What percentage of the sales of your association, and you may not have the figures at hand,

1:26:42what percentage are large commercial event fireworks versus what we'll call backyard

1:26:49personal fireworks? Through you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the question.

1:26:56While I don't have that number off hand, I will say, and I think it's important to say that

1:27:05the tradition of fireworks, be that on Canada Day, where that is allowed of course in this

1:27:12community and other days, sees a mix of individuals using them through smaller community events or

1:27:22in some cases through larger sanctioned events by municipalities. And we see a good mix of that.

1:27:30We see communities where there are permits that must be taken, for example, if you own a golf course.

1:27:35A few of them, of course, in this neighborhood, in this city rather, where you would need a permit

1:27:40in order to celebrate your your festivation. So while I don't have the numbers off hand,

1:27:47I think there's a dynamic mix between those that use it for personal reasons. And in fact,

1:27:54the ones that use it for personal reasons, it's important to point out that they actually have

1:27:59an ability to bring people together. It may be personal, but they may be bringing 15, 18,

1:28:0520 people together in their community. That's about building community as much as

1:28:10Guelph's Canada Day fireworks event brings larger people together. And in some cases,

1:28:18in the post COVID world, some people are interested in going to the larger events. Others want to do

1:28:24things in a little bit more of a quiet way. And I think there's got to be a balance for both.

1:28:29Sorry, it was what percentage of sales, not what percentage of use? Like you would have

1:28:35national sales figures in dollars, what percentage of sales, not how they're not how they're used.

1:28:43So thank you. Thank you. Can you could you confine your comment to just the answers to the

1:28:48questions and not expanding into other areas of conversation around this issue?

1:28:54Through you, Madam Chair, to the question.

1:29:00So you said that there are different classifications when they come into the country. As I understand

1:29:04it, they're classified for large events, the Canada Day kind of organizational fireworks,

1:29:10or personal backyard fireworks. Would you have statistics on your sales figures?

1:29:15On the top of-

1:29:16And if not, I can look-

1:29:18On the top of my tongue, I don't. And that is something I'd be happy to come back to you with

1:29:23as it pertains to this community and on a more macro level, if that's helpful.

1:29:27Okay. That would be really helpful before we meet again on the 29th.

1:29:30Sure.

1:29:30One last question and it's more about the regulation. Is a sparkler

1:29:34considered a fireworks by the government regulation?

1:29:38Thank you for the question, Councillor, and through you, Madam Chair, this is a very

1:29:42important question. It's really important and I want to just reference Councillor O'Rourke's

1:29:47question earlier about bands. The context is very key if you would allow me.

1:29:52Sorry, just is a sparkler considered a regulated fireworks?

1:29:56Yes, it is. In the case of Brampton, because I know questions were asked earlier about what

1:30:00other communities are doing, they actually lifted their ban on fireworks to allow for

1:30:05sparklers to be used. This is one of the most popular products of fireworks. It is regulated.

1:30:11And the ban in Brampton that many talk about has been lifted very quietly to now allow

1:30:18sparklers to be used.

1:30:19Great. Thank you.

1:30:20You're welcome.

1:30:20Okay, great. Thank you.

1:30:21Councillor Busuttil.

1:30:24Are there any other questions, Mr. Kanji?

1:30:29Mayor Guthrie.

1:30:33Is it me, Madam Chair, or Councillor Busuttil?

1:30:37Oh, no. Sorry. Mayor Guthrie, it's you.

1:30:40She doesn't want to ask a question.

1:30:42Okay. Thank you.

1:30:43Through you, do you know of any other cities that require permits

1:30:52and is the way our proposed bylaw is being presented a similar way to other cities that

1:31:02have permits in place?

1:31:05Through you, Madam Chair, to the question from Mayor Guthrie, I think it's really important to

1:31:13look at what we're recommending today, which we're actually okay with permits for commercial

1:31:20great events. I think there are a number of examples, Mr. Mayor, where we see the issuance

1:31:28of permits being a requirement for commercial great events. I think that makes sense for

1:31:33larger events. Absolutely. Our experience in working in this industry is that permits for

1:31:41individual use, while there may be examples of that, they don't get followed. It is incredibly

1:31:50cumbersome to put that on the back of a resident to say you need to come and get a permit. I'll

1:31:56give you an example of one that doesn't work, and that is in the case of West Vancouver.

1:32:03So they've introduced a nominal $5 permit fee to use fireworks, and it didn't stop

1:32:10anybody to buy online, buy from other towns, and use them. They found another way, basically,

1:32:19to doing that. So the issuance of permits for personal use, it's been our experience,

1:32:26or it's just something that really is, we believe residents will find untenable in this community

1:32:34as they have in others across the country.

1:32:39Mayor Guthrie, do you have any other questions?

1:32:41No, I'm sorry. I forgot to unmute. I just said thank you very much.

1:32:43Okay. Are there any other questions?

1:32:47Councillor Chew? Remember, we were asking questions of clarification.

1:32:54Yeah, through you, Madam Chair. I'm just wondering from your perspective, you talked about

1:33:00permits for individual use and West Vancouver. Why do you think that that example didn't work?

1:33:08Sorry, I couldn't hear you. Could you repeat the question?

1:33:10So you mentioned that West Vancouver is an example of how it's not working for regulating

1:33:18personal use. Why is that, in your opinion?

1:33:22Through you, Madam Chair, again, a really good question. The reason it doesn't work,

1:33:29you know, to the councillor is that once again, where there is a ban in place, people will resort

1:33:36to finding another way to buy the products. Vancouver's proximity to the United States,

1:33:43not dissimilar, to be honest, from this community. When you look at the driving distance,

1:33:48you know, we'll allow people to think about bringing them in.

1:33:51We talked about this last night in Kitchener as well. It'll happen. People will buy them at Walmart,

1:33:58buy them at other stores, and I will remind folks in the room that it's a different rate of

1:34:02classification of fireworks in the United States. Very different. There's a reason Canada has the

1:34:07tightest testing regulations in the world on fireworks. But to the question, again, people will

1:34:14seek to buy them. They will seek to make them themselves. They may go to First Nations reserves

1:34:20where those products are not tested. They're not part of the 4,000 fireworks that the federal

1:34:26government through ERD approves. And I think therein lies the community risk of why the ban

1:34:32simply does not work. I hope that answers your question, councillor.

1:34:38Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions? Okay. Thank you, Mr. Kenji.

1:34:46Moving on to Harping Gill. Harping Gill, sorry. Right, you have five minutes.

1:35:04Good afternoon. My name is Harping Gill. I'm a local retailer in Guelph for the last 14 years

1:35:11on York and Victoria Road and most recently at Stone Road Mall.

1:35:16So I just want to, a lot has already been said today. I want to thank everybody for speaking.

1:35:21I don't want to repeat too much, but I'm going to try to try not to repeat, but we'll be going

1:35:25over just a couple of things. One thing I want to go over is cultural importance of

1:35:32the fireworks in some things, especially with the Diwali community. And you know, in Guelph,

1:35:39we have a big community from like all different backgrounds from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh,

1:35:44Sri Lankan, Nepal, and Bhutan, Fiji, which has grown rapidly in the last few years. And I've noticed

1:35:51big increase in fireworks usage over the last few years, especially for Diwali.

1:35:57You know, like banning it, I'm all for safety regulation changes,

1:36:03permits for the commercial use of fireworks, because the commercial fireworks grades

1:36:08are much, much worse, or much, much higher, or stronger, louder, etc., and impact on the

1:36:17city as a whole. But as Canada, we're like one of the most diverse communities. We have

1:36:23most diverse populations around in the world. And taking it away from people, the newcomers to Canada,

1:36:32just like having it there shows the community as a whole that we're a diverse group. We're not

1:36:39sheltering some communities and others. We're shouting them. We're allowing them to be involved

1:36:44together, brings community together. I've noticed since we started the Wali in Guelph,

1:36:48communities from all over, different backgrounds, different races, are embracing the Wali now,

1:36:54is becoming similar as the Canada Day celebration. Like last year was probably

1:37:00almost, if not just as busy as Canada Day was for me personally in sales. And like, you know,

1:37:06all, oh, ban would, increasingly I have six full-time employees that we use when we're open

1:37:10yearly. It's a local impact on you. You know, people are going to start buying from other

1:37:16communities like the online, online usage. You can go to Push Lynch. You can purchase some. You

1:37:22can go to Georgetown, Allora. They're all within quick driving rate distance. But then that's taking

1:37:27money away from our economy, jobs losses in our community. Just in general, and then you go into

1:37:33the, as people have already, some speakers already touched base on the underground element, which

1:37:39is huge, which I don't think the city of Guelph has experienced yet, what fireworks really are,

1:37:44and what fireworks or firecrackers are. The two difference distinguish which firecrackers are

1:37:49legal in America and banned in Canada for obvious reasons. But with the ban that happened in, you

1:37:56could, in relation to the West Coast there in British Columbia, it brought the craziest fire

1:38:03crackers back into Canada, which we grew up with in the 90s and the 80s. And those are all back now,

1:38:09because they've banned it in so many communities. That's all you're getting now. So now you got

1:38:12underage kids using firecrackers, which are going to blow off their fingers and it happens,

1:38:17right? Now you've got more risk to children, no regulations, more calls for police, hospital,

1:38:23ambulances, other services that were taken away from our community that could be put somewhere

1:38:28else by banning these. If we just put that towards more safety, more regulations, which we, as

1:38:34retailers, we do a lot. Like everybody comes in to buy fireworks. We have, half the people don't

1:38:38know what they're buying. You have to sit there and explain. They ask a lot of questions. We're very,

1:38:43we're very open to help. We help every customer, you know, like, I'm not sure if anybody's ever

1:38:47been into one of our stores, but we're super busy. And like people, they come back every year, never

1:38:53had any issues where anybody's been injured, not from us, and anything about any safety, like any

1:38:58fires or something preventable. And I think that stuff happens is because it's under regulated

1:39:03and children or underage kids are purchasing it from other communities or something,

1:39:08or through the black market, which I'm telling you what happened in BC, you don't want that

1:39:13happening here. It's just, it's a great risk. And it's just something that I would stem away from

1:39:19if we can, like just more safety, more regulations, as I would say is the best way to go. And like,

1:39:24if you have any other questions, I can help you. Okay. Thank you very much. Are there any questions

1:39:31Councillor Kerron and then Councillor Chew? Yeah, two quick questions. You mentioned that you can,

1:39:39and I may have misinterpreted, you haven't had any injuries traced to fireworks that you sell,

1:39:44are fireworks traceable? Like they're, uh,

1:39:49No, like, sorry, I must have, I must have said that wrong. I meant to say like related to any,

1:39:54like anybody coming back to us saying we've some underage kids took them from us or

1:39:58something like that to happen, right? Because if that was the case, if something happened,

1:40:02where the fireworks came from, they're all labeled, all the fireworks are labeled,

1:40:05tells you where you bought them from, like our stickers and brands are on there, right?

1:40:08So I've, I haven't had anybody come in and say that, hey, we use your fireworks and this happened

1:40:14to us or my neighbor's house caught a fire. The fireworks, they blow off, but the packaging

1:40:20still there says our name says our company name and all that, although it goes on it. Okay. So they

1:40:25are some traceable by the label on the product. And they all have a bar scan on it. So you can

1:40:32scan it, it goes to our website or whatnot. Okay. And you mentioned specifically, my second and

1:40:37final question, you mentioned specifically that Diwali is very much a cultural event that are

1:40:41tied to fireworks and my understanding and correct me if I'm wrong, I don't know if you're

1:40:45a member of the community celebrating Diwali, but the festival of lights, we've had drone shows in

1:40:50Caledon, Langley, BC in Bolton, like a lot of communities are going to the drone light shows

1:40:59to celebrate Diwali. I just wondered if that is something that I'm hearing you say that

1:41:06community celebration of that event is tied to fireworks, but a lot of communities are moving

1:41:13away from fireworks. Yeah. So it is, it's tied to the fireworks for sure. So that, like that being

1:41:21said, October, November is usually when Diwali happens. It's a cold time of year. Families usually

1:41:26celebrate Diwali together, like in big groups, they come over, it's feasting, eating, enjoying

1:41:32company with each other at home and home setting as opposed to getting together and going out to

1:41:38watch a laser show, getting all your family members, kids, elderly, everybody together and taking

1:41:43them out in the cold, in the rain, Diwali mostly usually raining or super cold every year as, and

1:41:49so taking people out to go do that, you know, it takes, it's hard to get everybody together and

1:41:55people just can stop getting together to do that. People rather sit at home in a nice home setting,

1:41:59rate celebrating it together. Councillor Chew? Through you, Madam Chair, just to delegate,

1:42:10I just really want to lead in on the public education component. So I'm curious to see,

1:42:15like, how you're doing it as a retailer and if you have any relationship with Guelphire or any,

1:42:21like, city officials at the moment and it, just falling up on that as well, do you, can you foresee

1:42:27a relationship with Guelphire and the city to kind of help with the public education because

1:42:34where our demographics are shifting and there's definitely more emphasis on public safety,

1:42:40so this is why we're here, at the same time we also recognize the cultural significance of

1:42:45your industry. So can you, in your, from your perspective, help us paint a picture of how we can

1:42:53better the public education component of this? Well, I think you could do, like, for example,

1:42:59a community like the City of Vaughn, you have a, you have a community, like they have a thing

1:43:04set together with the city councillors, the fire department, the fire safety committee or what

1:43:09not, and they get together every year and they bring in the vendors and they speak and they go

1:43:14over things and, you know, have discussions of what they can do together, like we give impact,

1:43:18input, they give input to each other and it helps everybody figure out what needs to be done,

1:43:23right, they'll ask us, we can ask them questions and stuff, right, and like, as we're seeing people

1:43:27come into the stores, we have pamphlets there that explain, first off, the Guelph guidelines,

1:43:32city regulations, where and when they can do it, explaining to them parks and all that is off limits,

1:43:38and then they ask us questions about the fireworks usage, like a lot of people don't know how to

1:43:41actually use it, we have labels and stuff on them, but we still give an in-depth, like, idea to

1:43:47everybody how to safely use it, what not to do, what to do, and all that, right, and I think overall,

1:43:53it just, we just need a better community engagement between the city, fire, and maybe the vendors,

1:43:59which will help explain to the rest of the population what's, what we can do to make it safer, right,

1:44:05because at the end of the day, that's what you want, a safe, safe regulation, safe safety of

1:44:11everything, right, and if we don't, if we push away from not doing that first and go straight to

1:44:17banning or something, it's going to be pushed into the black market. And just a follow-up,

1:44:24do you have any personal, like, relationship with any city officials to make sure that the

1:44:30public education has some alignment with our bylaws are currently standing? I personally don't,

1:44:36I haven't had the opportunity to, but I have, like, fire personnel come into our stores, we speak,

1:44:42they come in throughout the years when we're open and stuff, they just stop by, come say hi,

1:44:47the bylaw, people come by, they'll come in the store, check out stuff, but as an engagement as a

1:44:53community, not yet, personally, I have not, but I'm not sure if behind me there, some of the speakers

1:44:58may have already a CFNA and a rocket and a special. Sorry, are there any other questions for this

1:45:13Thank you. Okay, seeing none, thank you very much. Thank you for having me. Now we have Mr.

1:45:19John Luff, who's supposed to be here in person. Mr. Luff, hey, he doesn't appear to be here,

1:45:29so if we're checked later at the end, and we have a Bill Renault from a mystical distributing

1:45:37company joining us by video. Yes, we can. Thank you. Okay, Mr. Renault, you've got five minutes.

1:46:01Good afternoon, Council members. My name is Bill Renault. I represent mystical distributing,

1:46:07which manufactures, imports, and distributes fireworks across Canada. Today, I'm asking you

1:46:13to keep the sale and use of consumer fireworks within Guelph. Fireworks are not just about the

1:46:19flashes of the light in the sky. They're deeply rooted in Canadian and global cultural celebrations.

1:46:26I grew up celebrating Canada Day and Victoria Day, and now they're new cultural events like

1:46:31the Valley and Lunar New Year that are celebrated with fireworks. Fireworks bring people together,

1:46:38foster community spirit, and highlight Guelph's diversity. Safety is our top priority. And using

1:46:45the CNFA's Be A Good Neighbor program, which focuses on educating consumers about responsible

1:46:52fire usage, safety fires are distributed at the retail level, and our products feature QR codes

1:46:59that are linked to safety videos on the packaging, such as that. Safety is our, sorry, let's keep,

1:47:10let's look at real Canadian stats, not American stats like the reports spoke about.

1:47:16Can the Canada Stringent Regulation have resulted in an outstanding safety record? Over the last

1:47:2225 years, there's been zero deaths related to consumer fireworks. In terms of injuries,

1:47:30the data reinforces the relative safety of fireworks. According to the Canadian Hospital

1:47:36Injury Reporting Prevention Program, there have been only 210 firework related injuries

1:47:42in the past 12 years. By contrast, items like wax candles, which are unregulated, kill at least

1:47:51eight Canadians annually, and have caused more fires and injuries, yet we aren't considering them

1:47:58for a ban. There are concerns about fireworks environmental impact. However, recent studies

1:48:06show that fireworks do not contribute significantly to air Canada degradation. A recent independent

1:48:13study conducted by Atkins Reels in Quebec has provided positive news about the environmental

1:48:20impact of fireworks on air quality. The study reveals that the increase in fine particle

1:48:26emissions during firework displays is highly localized and short lived, lasting only a few

1:48:32minutes, and consistently complies with stringent environmental standards. Even the large pyrotechnic

1:48:40shows contribute minimally to greenhouse gas emissions with CO2 emissions from an average

1:48:46show comparable to a bus trip between Guelph and Toronto. This data reassures that firework displays

1:48:53while creating moments of joy and wonder have limited and manageable impact on the environment,

1:48:59supporting their continued use in celebrations across Canada. While noise is a common concern,

1:49:06statistics show that fireworks are not a top noise complaint in cities. Parties, construction,

1:49:12and loud music rank higher. Moreover, bylaw enforcement of a total fireworks ban would be

1:49:17costly and ineffective, driving residents to purchase fireworks in neighboring cities or online,

1:49:24leaving Guelph with no control. Here's an interesting fact that Tom brought up earlier.

1:49:30A consumer firework approved in Canada can have a maximum sound level of 120 decibels. However,

1:49:36with a legal spectator distance of at least 50 meters, that sound level drops significantly

1:49:42to around 86 decibels, comparable to the noise of heavy traffic, a snow blower,

1:49:49or even a vacuum cleaner running nearby. This means that fireworks are not as loud as you may

1:49:54think from a safe viewing distance. As a responsible pet owner, I followed advice from

1:50:00organizations like the Humane Society to keep my pets safe indoors during firework displays.

1:50:07The same goes for thunderstorms, and let's be honest, even the vacuum, yes, I vacuum a chalking,

1:50:13if my pets can handle the daily terror of the vacuum cleaner, I can definitely manage their

1:50:19distress during fireworks. It's all about taking the same common sense precautions we use for

1:50:25everyday noises. In conclusion, fireworks are a cherished tradition that brings communities

1:50:30together, and with Canada's stringent regulations, they remain a safe and responsible form of

1:50:35celebration. The data shows fireworks have an excellent safety record, minimal environmental

1:50:41impact, and a manageable noise level when enjoyed at proper distances. Rather than forcing a complete

1:50:47ban, we urge you to consider option one, which preserves the tradition on key holidays while

1:50:53enhancing safety measures. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Are there any questions of Mr. Reno?

1:51:03Okay, seeing none, thank you very much. Next, we have Arthur Lam, who will be joining us on the phone.

1:51:20Is Mr. Lam here? Hi, I'm here. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Thank you. You have five

1:51:27minutes. Please go ahead. Thank you, Madam Chair, esteemed members of the Council and fellow citizens.

1:51:36The Lunar New Year is a cornerstone of Chinese cultural identity, symbolizing renewal,

1:51:43family reunion, and hope for future prosperity. Its significance extends beyond the Chinese

1:51:48community, enriching Canada's multicultural tapestry and reflecting our nation's commitment

1:51:54to diversity and inclusion. In Guelph, the Chinese Canadian community has adapted their

1:52:01celebrations to align with local regulations, demonstrating flexibility and respect for our

1:52:07shared environments. Their galas are mostly indoors and celebrated without fireworks and

1:52:14firecrackers. However, the absence of firecrackers, a millennia old tradition intrinsically linked

1:52:22to our heritage, leaves a void in these festivities. Fireworks and firecrackers in Chinese culture are

1:52:30not mere spectacles. They are rooted in our history and beliefs. Originating over a thousand years

1:52:38ago with the invention of gunpowder, fireworks and firecrackers have evolved into a symbolic

1:52:44language of joy, prosperity, and cultural continuity. They serve to ward off negative

1:52:51energies and usher in good fortunes for the coming year. Fireworks and firecrackers are also set off

1:52:57for weddings and other joyous occasions for the same reason. The current exclusion of the Lunar

1:53:04New Year from Guelph's list of approved fireworks dates sends a message of cultural oversight,

1:53:11and it undermines the city's reputation for inclusivity. I propose that we rectify this by

1:53:19extending the same considerations granted to Duwali to the Lunar New Year celebrations.

1:53:26More importantly, this is not merely about preserving tradition. Fireworks display have

1:53:33transcend their origins to become an art form, celebrated in festivals across Canada, including

1:53:40Ottawa, Montreal, Toronto, Vancouver, and other major cities. By embracing this aspect of Chinese

1:53:47culture, Guelph has an opportunity to enrich its cultural offerings and potentially boost tourism

1:53:53and community engagement. In considering this proposal, we must balance cultural significance

1:54:01with safety and environmental concerns. I'm confident that our community can work collaboratively

1:54:08to implement responsible guidelines that reflect both our traditions and our shared spaces.

1:54:17This decision before the council is more than a matter of policy. It is an affirmation of Guelph's

1:54:24commitment to be a truly inclusive city that values and celebrates diverse cultural heritage

1:54:32for all its residences. Thank you for your attention. I'm prepared to address any questions

1:54:38or concerns regarding cultural importance of fireworks in Chinese traditions and how we

1:54:44might integrate them responsibly into our city's celebrations.

1:54:51Okay, thank you, Mr. Lam. Councillor Bousetail has a question, and if anybody else, and Councillor

1:54:57Wark. Thank you very much, Mr. Lam. Can you hear me okay?

1:55:02Yes, I can. Thank you. Thank you. I may have missed it at the very beginning, but can you tell me

1:55:07who you're representing? We did have a consultation with the Guelph Chinese Canadian

1:55:14Cultural Group. Are you speaking as an individual or are you representing an organisation?

1:55:20I'm speaking as an individual. I went to the University of Waterloo and I was

1:55:28frequented Guelph at Kitchener as well as Waterloo. And I'm just speaking, I've also worked with

1:55:35Chinese Canadian organisations across the country. Thank you. Sorry, through the chair,

1:55:43just clarification. So you're a resident of Guelph. Is that correct? Sorry, I missed the beginning.

1:55:49No, I was a resident of Waterloo many years ago, but I have been to Guelph on many occasions.

1:55:58I'm speaking as an individual. Thank you very much.

1:56:03Okay, thank you. Councillor Wark. Thank you, Chair Downer. Through you to the delegate.

1:56:10I'm just curious. What is proposed would allow for a community fireworks display

1:56:18as long as a qualified person managed that display? And so would that not also be what

1:56:24you're describing in Ottawa and Vancouver large cities that would drive tourism, like you're

1:56:30talking about a big community display that would probably have to be executed by a professional

1:56:35anyway? So doesn't this proposal correspond to what you say would be helpful?

1:56:46Yes, I think that is a good step. I would just say that it prevents more private impromptu

1:57:02celebrations such as weddings and small gatherings of a few people.

1:57:08That's really what my concern is that it would prevent their ability to

1:57:17celebrate their traditions. Right, so through you, Chair Downer,

1:57:23sir, are you aware that that's currently not permitted under the existing by-law that

1:57:28you're only allowed to issue to use the fireworks Canada Day, Diwali and Victoria Day unless you

1:57:34have a permit? Yes, and what I'm saying is that the exclusion of Lunar New Year seems to

1:57:44unfairly, may have unfairly targeted Chinese Canadians who would like to

1:57:54celebrate their holidays with the use of fireworks and firecrackers.

1:57:59I see. Okay, thank you. Okay, thank you. Are there any other questions? Councillor Chew.

1:58:06Thank you, Madam Chair. Just to the delegate, I'm just wondering if you personally or on behalf

1:58:13of any other Chinese organizations have put in an expression of interest to our city staff to

1:58:20permit Lunar New Year because right now I'm not even sure if there has been an expression of interest

1:58:30and I think that's an important starting point before we jump to any conclusions.

1:58:37Yeah, I think that's a really good point and I think one of the issues that we

1:58:46faced in terms of representation for the Chinese Canadian community is the fear of

1:58:52governments or involvement with governments. So even the step of applying for a license

1:59:03scares people off from actually doing it. And what we are saying is that from an

1:59:15equality perspective, it would be more equitable to include Lunar New Year as one of the holidays

1:59:24where people can use fireworks and firecrackers. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Are there any other

1:59:38questions with this delegate? Thank you, Mr. Lam. So going to in person, is there a Mark Matthews here?

1:59:52Okay, I don't see you, Mr. Matthews. How about Harpreet Singh? Okay, I don't see anyone here.

2:00:05Can we go back? Did John Lough show up? No, okay, so we're missing those three delegations.

2:00:15Okay, we're going to go back to the council discussion. Would somebody put the staff recommendation

2:00:22on the floor before we go to questions of staff? Councillor Kerrion, seconded by Councillor Goller.

2:00:29Okay, questions of staff? I'll start my list. Okay, Councillor Kerrion.

2:00:35Yeah, thank you. Great discussion. Just as a follow-up to staff, I know that all we're really

2:00:42voting on today is to kind of send you off to do the work based on the engagement so far.

2:00:47As part of the work, it would be your normal process to engage our equity diversity inclusion,

2:00:55our staff in diversity, given that cultural celebrations are part of the exemptions that

2:01:04we're identifying. So would you be including our staff in that development of the bylaw to ensure

2:01:11that we have that lens? Through the chair, Councillor Kerrion, unfortunately, Mr. Parse stepped

2:01:17away briefly, but I can advise that we did speak to our engagement staff and part of that staff is

2:01:26cultural items and stuff. Okay, I figured you had, it just wasn't identified specifically in the

2:01:31report. And then as you go forward in the bylaw, that that would be part of it. I think on the last

2:01:37page of the report, you indicated that a potential $100 application fee would be part of it. Can you

2:01:48speak to whether that covers, is that covering staff time? Is it covering potential cleanup? I'm

2:01:57just thinking for some charity organizations or nonprofits or cultural organizations,

2:02:05I wonder whether we might consider the $100 fee as a refundable fee, more of a deposit. So

2:02:15you know, we do it with our signage for running for council. If you follow the law,

2:02:20if there's no cleanup of signs, if there's no damage to city property, you get your $100 back.

2:02:28Is that a consideration? Through the chair to Councillor Kerrion,

2:02:33any will of council, however, they direct staff on that fee. The fee was developed as a cost recovery

2:02:41for staff's time in processing the applications and beginning the process. I just want to note

2:02:48that there is another fee that is the inspection fee for fire to actually complete the inspections

2:02:55currently for 2024. That's $108. So in total, the application would be $100 and then the inspection

2:03:00would be another $108. How council wishes us to direct on that fee? It could be the will of council.

2:03:08Thanks. That's good to know because I think we wouldn't want two different fees. We would

2:03:12want a one-stop shop for this. So putting the two fees together makes more sense if you could

2:03:16would consider that in developing the bylaw. Is there additional, if there were damage to

2:03:21public property, if there was cleanup of materials left behind, is that billed separately and is

2:03:30it part of the agreement that we enter into with the application? Through the chair to Councillor

2:03:39Cron, I looked to Mr. Parfey as any more information out, but part of the permit system would be that

2:03:47any damages or cleanup costs or anything that the permit holder would be responsible for that.

2:03:52I believe that's correct. Okay. Are you entertaining comments now or do you would like us to

2:03:59say? No, let's stay with the questions. This is going to be a longer topic, so let's be clear on

2:04:04the questions. Did you have another question? No. Okay. So I've got Councillor Gibson,

2:04:11Alt and Guthrie on my list. Okay. We'll go to Councillor Gibson for questions.

2:04:19You chair Downer. So thanks to staff and the delegates. Good conversation and a good report,

2:04:25quite frankly, a lot of public engagement. I guess I just want to make very clear distinctions here

2:04:31for the public to be aware. And again, for myself, this is just sort of confirming what I believe I'm

2:04:36reading. Sale of home fireworks, sale of home fireworks are would be prohibited under this

2:04:45bylaw. So no more individual backyard displays of fireworks and only where permitted through this

2:04:54upwards of $200 and plus dollar fee would fireworks be permitted in the city. And in that

2:05:00regulation, there would be safe distance requirements, a licensed display supervisor,

2:05:07sufficient liability insurance, safety inspections for safety and animal safety plan.

2:05:15Can we confirm that that's all that would be allowed through this bylaw if struck in past?

2:05:24Through the chair, to Councillor Gibson, you are correct that consumer fireworks would not be

2:05:32permitted. Larger scale displays would be, permit would be acquired and it would have to be

2:05:43discharged by an authorized individual. I think I've captured it correctly under the proposed.

2:05:48No problem. So follow up question. What is a licensed authorized individual? Maybe I'll ask

2:05:57a second question. What is the animal safety management plan? So I'll turn it over to Mr.

2:06:03Parding and answer this question. It would be something that would have to be put together

2:06:11with the event organizer. A Guelph Humane Society in the past has worked with other

2:06:17celebrations and organizations to ensure that animals were shoot away or moved from the site prior

2:06:25to discourage the initial terror from the fireworks. So it's about having more of a

2:06:32preemptive plan about ensuring that there's no birds by scaring them away either through

2:06:39existing means. I think there was another part to that question. Was there Councillor Gibson?

2:06:49Well, it just sounds a little bit,

2:06:55I don't understand. It seems a little cloudy. It's not very definitive at this point.

2:07:03Is there a specific type of education or certification? This licensed display supervisor

2:07:10is going to be requiring. And secondly, an animal safety management plan cannot just be left up to

2:07:18staff to think of the best things they can think of in the moment. We would need some bar,

2:07:23right? Some measure of performance saying, here's a templated safety plan here, the steps you should

2:07:29do before you discharge the fireworks. Thanks very much. Or are we going to have to go through a

2:07:33committee approach where I have a license, I have a license to do this barring approval by some

2:07:40committee on the animal acceptance plan. I just want to know what this process is going to look like.

2:07:46And again, going through the, quite frankly, going through the process of the short-term

2:07:53accommodation licensing in other counties, this becomes not just a simple on paper exercise,

2:07:58it becomes committee to committee to committee approach where I am looking for approval for

2:08:03four or five different people simply to obtain a license. Through the chair to Councillor Gibson,

2:08:11as part of the application process, we would provide the forms and the documentations that

2:08:17would be required for the individual to show that they're authorized or licensed to discharge that

2:08:23type of fireworks, as well as the animal mitigation plan. This is currently done with the

2:08:31assistance of the Gulf Humane Society who kind of give kind of. Yeah, I'll reiterate, it does say

2:09:09licensed display supervisors that that entails some measure of qualification. I'm sorry, Chair,

2:09:25Donna, we cannot hear you. We're going to take a three to five minute break. Yep.

2:09:43We heard that. And through you, Madam Chair, I'm not sure if remote members can hear us,

2:09:53but regardless if you can or not, we'll just take a three to five minute break to make sure

2:09:57we understand what caused that before we continue and just risk it happening again. So just bear

2:10:01with us for just a couple of minutes here. Testing, testing, just testing the broadcasting of a

2:15:58live stream of the City of Guelph Council. One, two, three. We can hear you well out here.

2:16:22All of that just so everyone knows. Okay, we're just going to wait till the clerk comes back

2:16:27in the room and then continue. Thank you. Welcome back, everyone. I'm going to resume the meeting.

2:17:19And Councillor Gibson, we were at you and you were asking a question that we got cut off. Yeah,

2:17:24thank you. Through you, Chair, Donna, just respectfully, the term licensed operating

2:17:33instructor, and I just wanted to understand what the license is. I'm not aware of a license. So

2:17:37is there a bar or a accreditation that someone would have to have? Through the Chair to Councillor,

2:17:45yes, licensed pyrotechnic is a currently federally recognized license.

2:17:54And I can provide you more details on that after this if you want. No, that's okay. I'm just trying

2:17:58to get an appreciation for the full cost of sort of the administration of a permit like this. So you'd

2:18:05have a permit fee, you'd have a safety inspection fee, and then you would also be paying for a

2:18:10licensed instructor to attend. I'll finish with my questions. I'll leave for comments later. Thank you,

2:18:17Chair, Donna. Okay, thank you, Councillor Gibson. Councillor Allt. Chair, Donna, can you hear me okay?

2:18:27Yes, I can. And Councillor Gowder, I do see your hand. My questions are, I have a couple of

2:18:33questions for staff. The first one, I believe, is for bylaw enforcement, but it could be for others.

2:18:41I understand that drone and laser shows are federally controlled, and I wonder whether there is

2:18:50any potential for including those in consideration of this bylaw or whether this should wait for

2:18:58another day. Through the Chair to Councillor Allt, as you're aware, we don't have any direction

2:19:06right now to look at that. The second thing I cautioned Council about is the staff time that

2:19:11would be required to add that to the bylaw. We have a number of items underway right now,

2:19:18as you're aware, as well as drones currently are regulated federally. Therefore, information

2:19:27on the permissions, on how to apply for a permit and all that are done through transportation Canada,

2:19:35so anyone wishing to have a drone display could look at those regulations first.

2:19:42Thank you. It sounds like it's a fairly lengthy process that we would have to go through. I believe

2:19:48that the next question is for fire prevention staff, who I think are present. I'm wondering if fire

2:19:55prevention could comment on what the impact of fireworks is on the deployment of fire prevention

2:20:03staff during a fireworks display. There surely must be a cost and also a deployment of a number

2:20:14of people that are required to be in attendance at large fireworks displays. Through Chair Downer,

2:20:24to Councillor All, thank you for the question. Are fire prevention staff, when they receive

2:20:34a request to put on pyrotechnics or large fireworks display, it is very time-consuming for staff

2:20:45up front in terms of reviewing licensing of those who are going to be discharging the fireworks,

2:20:54their safety plans, reviewing the sites. All those details are taken into consideration

2:21:02as part of that review. In terms of attendance at those fireworks displays, I'd have to get back to

2:21:15you, Councillor All, in terms of I don't believe it's a requirement that we attend, but we often do

2:21:20attend just to ensure that those safety measures are taking place. And we also work in cooperation

2:21:31with our bylaw officials to also make sure that those large-skill events go off without a hitch.

2:21:39Thank you very much. Just to follow up on that then, when you say time-consuming and safety plans,

2:21:45are you able to provide any estimate of the amount of time that is required?

2:21:56Any estimate at this point would just be off the top of my head. Would it be fair to yourself

2:22:01or to my fire prevention staff to try to get a estimate at this time? I can provide the

2:22:06information for you though. Thanks. The next question related to this actually is, in comparison

2:22:14to the large public displays of fireworks, what are some of the challenges that fire prevention

2:22:21staff might find when it comes to issues associated with people setting off home fireworks and even

2:22:30illegal fireworks within the city? Can you comment on that at all?

2:22:37Chair Downer, to Councillor All, thank you for the question. The time involved with

2:22:44illegal or improper discharge of fireworks is not so much attributed to our fire prevention

2:22:53staff as opposed to our fire suppression staff. And they will respond to emergency events as they

2:23:00are called in to dispatch through 9-1-1. And we have a history within the municipality of

2:23:10of improper discharge and disposal fireworks causing property damage or injury to individuals.

2:23:23I can give you the exact numbers for the last three years. I think we had 29 reported

2:23:30incidents that our fire staff had to respond in with multiple vehicles, multiple personnel.

2:23:37Fortunately, in those three years, there were no resultant injuries. I also am aware beyond that,

2:23:44in the last 10 years approximately, there has been, that I know of at least one significant

2:23:49house fire as a result of improper discharge of those fireworks. Councillor All, you're muted.

2:24:01Thank you very much. And without being too glib, clearly no safety plans have been presented ahead

2:24:07on any of those. I'll have my comments later, Chair Downer.

2:24:10Thank you. Mayor Guthrie, do you have any questions?

2:24:16Yeah, thanks Madam Chair and through you, I think Councillor Gibson was kind of hovering around

2:24:23where I was trying to go. So maybe I'll just ask this and if you don't have the answer,

2:24:27it could be a takeaway. But I guess what I'm just trying to figure out is what would the cost be

2:24:35for me. I've never done it before. Don't have to, don't ever intend to, but for me to put on a fireworks

2:24:42thing. And because I can imagine the liability isn't cheap. I would imagine the supervisor isn't

2:24:52cheap. You know, the permit's a hundred bucks. I know that much. So I just, I just wouldn't mind,

2:24:58like, what am I up against here as someone that wants to actually do it and someone wants to do it

2:25:04proper? What am I up against? And so that's something that if you have an answer, that'd be great

2:25:11if you, if you don't maybe just let me know if it's a takeaway. Through the Chair,

2:25:18to Mayor Guthrie, obviously the cost would obviously be based on the amount of fireworks

2:25:24and the length of the display and the type of the display. We don't have that number with us today

2:25:30examples, but it's something we can take away. Okay. And so my last question right now is just a

2:25:37clarity question. I'm just trying to understand basically, is what the bylaw presenting today

2:25:49basically a ban, basically a ban of people like me and my own neighborhood just trying to do something

2:25:55with a couple neighbors versus an actual show, like, like candidate a show or Diwali show,

2:26:07where it's a big, a big deal. You're allowed those to happen. But if I'm trying to just do

2:26:13something in my neighborhood to celebrate with like four neighbors or something like that,

2:26:18this just, this, this bylaw is basically saying that it won't happen.

2:26:25Through the Chair and Mayor Guthrie, as the as the recommendation is presented,

2:26:29it would be a permit only for larger displays. So consumer fireworks would not be permitted.

2:26:37Now, neighbors could get together and or for special events, get a permit and do it. But

2:26:46for the smaller consumer, just charging the fireworks that would be prohibited.

2:26:54Okay. And my final question on that then is, how do you determine what,

2:27:01what meets the threshold of small versus large? So I'm thinking like,

2:27:11you know, the Westminster Woods in the South End, I mean, they have their neighborhood group,

2:27:17I would consider that to be large. I would consider it a Diwali event to be large.

2:27:22But is five of my neighbors getting together not allowed? Do I need to have 10?

2:27:31Like what, what, what, how do you determine what, what is allowed, what's not?

2:27:36So through the Chair and the Mayor Guthrie, anyone that wishes to discharge fireworks

2:27:42could apply for a permit, have it inspected and have a licensed person discharge on event.

2:27:49So you could have a group of four people if they still choose to do that, or you could have a

2:27:54community club also do it. It would, it would be on the application, it would be on the person to

2:28:02apply and go through that process. Okay. Okay. Yeah, I think that's all my questions right now.

2:28:15Thank you Madam Chair. Okay, thank you, Councillor Bousetil. Thank you. I'm through the Chair. Thank

2:28:23you very much for the presentation. I just have two questions in the recommendations. It makes

2:28:30reference to school boards. And I was curious about, was there any consultation or conversation with

2:28:37school boards? Obviously school boards, there will not be fireworks set off during the daytime,

2:28:44although it has happened. Just a question because if we're talking about the site, the property,

2:28:51school boards themselves have community use and property requirements around if I'm setting off

2:28:58fireworks in the evening on school board property. So I was wondering if there was any kind of

2:29:03conversation with the school boards, if there was a conversation, if their preference is to ban,

2:29:07knowing of, you know, the repercussions the day after fireworks on school board property with

2:29:13kids setting them off in the playgrounds and so on. Just that's my first question.

2:29:22During our community consultation that was partake, we did not do one-on-one consultation

2:29:28with the school boards, but we did engage members of the communities who did have children in school.

2:29:38Thank you, and I'll make a comment later on. So my second question is, I do have the benefit of

2:29:43over a dozen years of organizing special events in the community. So similar to what the Mayor

2:29:49was discussing, if it's a neighborhood event, there is a special event application. So tell me if

2:29:56I'm picturing this wrong. So, you know, the food, the safety plan, fire plan, emergency plan, lost

2:30:03child plan, and even the inflatables, the bouncy castles that come, there is the company submits

2:30:11an insurance, the company comes on site, the site supervisor, and provides training to all of us

2:30:18volunteers that are watching the kids bouncy, and I wear a lanyard that says I completed the

2:30:23training and so on. Now if I want to add on, because we're going to stay there until midnight and do

2:30:30fireworks, I will now submit a safety plan and a animal plan as well. And I want to be clear,

2:30:38I'm happy to do that because I know that I'm creating a safe event. Is that kind of capturing

2:30:45kind of the extension of, and as a community group, you know, we provide those kinds of services to

2:30:54the neighborhood and to those individuals. Is that about fair?

2:31:00Through the chair to Councillor Boussadil, that is correct. So you would, if you were to add fireworks

2:31:05to an event and an application, and those plans would be required. Thank you, that's all.

2:31:13Thank you. Councillor Awerk.

2:31:16Thank you Chair Downer. Through you to staff, can you just recenter me? What is the problem that

2:31:24we're trying to solve with this change in the bylaw? Is it fires? Is it people setting them off in

2:31:33parks when they're not supposed to? What is this conversation in response to and what's the scope

2:31:38of that problem? So through chair Downer, I want to start simply and not being overly simplistic,

2:31:45but simply by saying because Council gave us direction to bring this bylaw forward.

2:31:50So that is part of the reason why we undertook this. That having been said, it is predominantly,

2:31:55I would say, based on community feedback and complaints that both we and members of Council

2:31:58were receiving. So that is the more simplistic answer. I'll turn to my right because I'm sure

2:32:04others will have comments that they want to make specific to managing safety concerns.

2:32:09And so certainly the fire chief is here for that reason, but it is by and large, I mean,

2:32:15this was originally scheduled for 2027 and at Council's direction, we moved it back to this year.

2:32:21And I believe that was in response to feedback that members of Council were receiving regarding

2:32:25fireworks, but I'll let Mr. God for your chief, Arnold, jump in. Through you, Chair Downer,

2:32:34to Councillor O'Rourke. Thank you for the question. I can speak predominantly from a fire

2:32:39life safety perspective. We had a previous delegate talk about how the Canadian Association

2:32:47of Fire Chiefs had us advocated for a number of years to the federal government to ban

2:32:56the use and discharge of consumer fireworks. And to his point, it has been turned down

2:33:04three times by the federal government. And the CAFC continues, however, to advocate

2:33:11for the total ban. And the CAFC does this for two reasons. First, we did a survey of fire

2:33:24departments across the nation. And of the number of respondents, 580 someone responded,

2:33:3024% of fire departments responded that in 2022, they had at least one, at least maybe more,

2:33:37but at least one fire incident in their community in that particular year. The second reason,

2:33:45so we're trying to eliminate, if not reduce, the fire risk. The second reason are the number of

2:33:52injuries. And the Canadian Hospital's Injury Prevention Program, Injury, Injury Reporting

2:33:58and Prevention Program, states that the most common types of injuries that youth and young

2:34:05adults are facing are burns, representing 61% of the cases followed closely by eye injuries.

2:34:14And of all the burns, the most effective body region was the upper extremities,

2:34:18being the hands, the forearms, and the fingers. So we're trying to eliminate the fire risk and

2:34:26injury risk, if not completely, then reduce it substantially. We, if I turn to provincial data,

2:34:39and according to figures provided by the Office of the Fire Marshal in Ontario,

2:34:45fireworks were the cause of 129 fires in almost $2.5 million in damage in Ontario between

2:34:53the years 2009, 2013. I don't have any more current data to provide you other than that.

2:35:00And I've already stated that we have a history here in the city of Guelph, locally. So while

2:35:08council and staff have received numerous complaints over various issues to residents,

2:35:16whether it's noise or nuisance or fire risk or endangerment of animals,

2:35:25my focus is on the fire and life safety element. And that's predominantly what I'm here for.

2:35:32Okay, thank you. So through you, Chair Downer, I don't like bylaws that are really hard or

2:35:40impossible to enforce. So I'm asked, Mr. Godfrey, currently, the restrictions do not allow for

2:35:48fireworks displays in public parks. And yet, we have them in public parks. We have them on a number

2:35:55of days on either side of the allowable days, right, which is I think the irritant for people.

2:36:00They can kind of get over Victoria Day Canada. But it's when it's two weeks on either side,

2:36:05right, because people have bought their their fireworks. So we can't currently get people

2:36:11to comply with the minimal restrictions. How would we enforce this, this new regime on fireworks?

2:36:21I'm asking in a very candid way, right? Because the intent is good. And I just want to know what

2:36:26the mechanics would be for enforcement. Through the chair, Councillor Roark currently,

2:36:34enforcement is centered around the days. So if it's outside of those days or outside of those

2:36:39hours, with respect to discharging on private lands or school board lands, bylaw have no authority

2:36:47on that. It would have to be up to that property owner to say this isn't permitted on my property.

2:36:53So it becomes very difficult to enforce the current bylaw outside of the days that were

2:37:00hours in which fireworks are able to be discharged. And we do do it. As you know, we do get a lot of

2:37:05calls. With respect to the new program, the discharging of fireworks would be prohibited

2:37:14unless there's a permit. So even on Canada Day or Victoria Day, they would be prohibited.

2:37:22Therefore, if your discharging fireworks from your own property or your discharging fireworks

2:37:28from a school property, staff would be able to enforce that because it would not be permitted

2:37:36no matter where. So that makes, clarifies it. I assume we're still going to get a lot of calls.

2:37:42And I assume that we're going to spend a staff time doing that. But we would be able to address

2:37:49some of the issues that we're receiving now that we're unable to address. That makes sense.

2:37:55Okay, that's helpful. Thank you. Okay, thank you. Councillor Goller has another question. And then

2:38:03Mayor Guthrie has a question. And through you, Chair Downer. Thank you, Mr. Guthrie, for going over

2:38:12the enforcement. I just wanted to clarify. The staff recommendation was for a

2:38:21the ban of personal use fireworks and a permissive way to have community fireworks.

2:38:33The last number of complaints that I get from my constituents is about people

2:38:38charging though that personal use fireworks at parks and in backyards and not just on the dates

2:38:47that is permitted, you know, a week before, a week after. How would highlight go about enforcing

2:38:55that? I mean, are we basing a bulk of the enforcement and the fact that they won't be

2:38:59available locally? So most people would just not be able to purchase them. And that will be a

2:39:04significant factor. Or will there be other tools to enforce that people are not as was suggested

2:39:10by the delegates going over to other communities and coming back and discharging fireworks in

2:39:15the backyards? Through the chair to Councillor Goller. With regards to just I just want to

2:39:23clarify something that what is proposed before council is a permit based system. So therefore,

2:39:31you would need to get a permit and the fireworks that you discharged would be up to you to decide.

2:39:36Then the fire department would inspect to make sure that they're being discharged properly.

2:39:41And that there's a license. The person that do that is not clear for that with respect to the sales

2:39:44as part of the next step of council was to direct us. We would work with our legal staff to

2:39:51determine the appropriate means in which to regulate sales because there would still be

2:39:56certain sales that were permitted for those that are actually doing it under the permit.

2:40:01So we would have to look at that with respect to fireworks being purchased at other municipalities

2:40:07and brought into Guelph. I suspect that is happening now. Like for other days in months

2:40:14of the year that fireworks aren't permitted to be sold in Guelph. So I'm not sure if that answers

2:40:20your question or if that clarifies it. Yeah, that does clarify it. And thank you. Thank you for that.

2:40:28So going back to the enforcement, will there be any additional tools or methods used to prevent

2:40:36people from discharging fireworks that are purchased outside of Guelph in city parks or

2:40:42in backyards without permits? Through the chair of councillor Goller, it would be part of the

2:40:48staff patrolling or responding to concerns about fireworks being discharged. Where the fireworks

2:40:54were actually purchased wouldn't impact the enforcement of the regulation. The regulation

2:41:02would be that fireworks was being discharged without a permit. Where those fireworks were

2:41:07purchased wouldn't have an impact. And then to discourage people from doing that, would there

2:41:14be fines associated with the illegal use of personal use fireworks in the city of Guelph?

2:41:24Through the chair of councillor Goller, as currently under our existing fireworks bylaw,

2:41:28there would be fines and opportunities for staff to issue penalties.

2:41:32Okay, okay. I really appreciate that. With regards to the first delegate, he spoke about

2:41:39the health hazards and the environmental impacts. And that was reported in the staff

2:41:47report that was mentioned. I'm trying to understand how that was evaluated with the health concern

2:41:53to humans and to animals. And that the survey responses, you know, 65% of Guelph either

2:42:01didn't care or was supportive of a total fireworks ban. So could you help me understand

2:42:07when we have 65% of our community that says I don't care or ban it all together,

2:42:12why is the staff recommendation to have this permissive system?

2:42:22Through the chair to the councillor, the staff recommendation was to strike a balance between

2:42:28the survey responses that you did note that did call for an overall ban. But in the same survey

2:42:34that we did see that a large number of respondents were comfortable with professional

2:42:40and organized show. So seeing that there was a trend in the data between, yes, there was a ban,

2:42:46but also people were supportive of or felt safe with professionally organized show.

2:42:56The proposed bylaw proposed recommendation is a balance between the two.

2:43:01Okay. Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you, chair Downer.

2:43:05Hey, thank you. Mr. Gretzler has another question and then councillor Chew and then

2:43:09councillor Bilbis. Well, thank you. Thank you, ma'am. George, just a quick one. What is the

2:43:15current fine for setting off fireworks outside of the allowable times and days?

2:43:28Through the chair to America, three will get that for you in a minute.

2:43:32Okay. Let's just pretend it's a hundred bucks. I don't care. Can we make it a thousand?

2:43:41Through the chair to mayor Guthrie, all set fines are based on

2:43:47our when set fines are created, they're based on other existing bylaws, both within our

2:43:53municipality and neighboring municipalities. So they look when we said it, it looks at

2:44:00the fine. I would suspect a thousand dollars for a set fine would ultimately be too high.

2:44:11I would imagine and we're going to confirm the amount that it's more in line with our noise

2:44:15bylaw or nuisance bylaw fine amount. That being said, if there is an issue in which

2:44:22staff believe that the situation goes beyond a set fine, that it's a repeat concern or repeat

2:44:31violation or it's the situation warrants it, staff do have the option to issue a summons to the

2:44:39individuals involved and ask that they appear in court and upon conviction of the violation

2:44:46can seek a higher fine than that of the set fund. Okay. I'm just trying to get to the deterrent issue

2:44:57for those outside the scope of what is allowed. I think there's an educational part here,

2:45:03but I think there's a disciplinary part here as well that maybe can be helped

2:45:09for those that are just not playing by the rules as well. So I'll leave that with you to take away.

2:45:15It would just be interesting if there was a more harsher fine that that might be

2:45:20that might be a part of the solution on this as well. So thank you.

2:45:27Okay. I have Councillor Chew and then Councillor Billings for questions.

2:45:33Thank you, Madam Chair. Just the staff, I just wanted to understand if we do choose the

2:45:39direction of the permitting system. Like is the intention to have a streamlined system kind of

2:45:44like our parks booking or is it going to be quite extensive? Like obviously you guys have to decide

2:45:50and discern, but I'm just trying to understand where our intentions are going to be stemming from

2:45:55if this does pass. Through the chair to Councillor Chew, obviously if we were to put in the permit

2:46:03system, we would have to to create it. However, based on some of the work that we're doing on the

2:46:09business licensing side of things where we're trying to streamline the process and make it easier for

2:46:16residents to apply, we'd be looking the same way for that, make it a simplified form that

2:46:21is easy to apply for and easy for staff to process. Okay. And just a follow-up, I don't want to put

2:46:27any words in your mouth, but just so you understand my intention here, but what would the turnaround be

2:46:32for like a permit? Because I just want to bring some context here. There are a lot of individuals

2:46:39in our communities that do not identify with any community groups. Right? So,

2:46:45but yeah, like to the mayor's point about, you know, three or four or five residents that want to

2:46:52do something, like that's that's the gap here that I want to see us address.

2:47:00Just so our bylaw does work properly and it's not just nice on paper, right? So

2:47:08through the chair to Councillor Chew, unfortunately at this time, I wouldn't be able to give

2:47:13numbers as to what the turnaround time for a for a permit would be, but that would be something

2:47:18that we would explore and determine and that would be communicated to residents so that

2:47:24they're aware as the timelines that is required to process. As indicated earlier, we would be

2:47:31hoping to streamline it to make it a quick turnaround for both the resident and for staff,

2:47:38but there would be compounding factors like the number of permits that all came in at the same

2:47:43time. Right? So if everyone applied for a permit the day that they wanted to discharge fireworks,

2:47:48I would say that it will be almost impossible for staff to turn that around. What is a week,

2:47:55you know, in advance that that may be possible. But again, if it's if it's before Canada Day and

2:48:01we have a large number of permits coming at the same time, then there might be an impact. So we

2:48:05would have to take that away and determine it, but we would provide that information to residents so

2:48:13that they know in advance how soon they would have to apply. Okay. And this final thought,

2:48:20if you could even provide some comparators from other places and what the administrative task

2:48:27entails, that would be really insightful for us. You don't know, you don't have to answer that just

2:48:36to take away. Thanks. Okay, thank you. Councillor Billings. And then we'll go to comments.

2:48:43Through you, Madam Chair, I just wanted to go back to and understand this

2:48:47proposed animal safety management plan. So the response was to spooch them away. So

2:48:54this is really meant for more wildlife, birds, geese. Is that why you're placing this

2:49:01this management plan as a requirement? Through the chair to Councillor Billings.

2:49:08Yes, it would be more for wildlife as as you may be aware, we've had issues in the past where we've

2:49:14had some events at Riverside Park and that there were some some geese that were injured. From that,

2:49:24we've been working with the Humane Society on creating this for the larger events and some of

2:49:30the the ideas that we clear the area first of the geese so that they're not impacted by

2:49:38fireworks. That's the sort of thing that we'd be looking at. And obviously we would be

2:49:42relying on the our partner, the Guelph Humane Society, to provide us some some of that information.

2:49:49Okay, but I'm okay through you, Madam Chair, but I'm still not quite understanding with respect

2:49:56to wildlife how to swoosh them away and how onerous this would be with respect to birds.

2:50:03For example, they fly away, they come back and even geese. So are we proposing to like set off a

2:50:11firework to swoosh them away for the birds in the trees? And then they just come back? I really

2:50:16don't understand the process that would be accomplished and how you're going to do it

2:50:22and how onerous it would be. So through the Chair to Council Billings, as indicated Guelph Humane

2:50:30Society obviously would provide some feedback on that. In the past, it's been the discharge of one

2:50:34firework beforehand to get the the geese to move rather than having a lot of fireworks discharged

2:50:42all at the same time. So depending on the length of the show and the fireworks being used, Guelph

2:50:49Humane Society may provide some other information. In other cases, they've had a dog that's been,

2:50:54they've walked around the dog and around Riverside Park to get the geese to fly away

2:51:00before the start of the fireworks. I'll look to Mr. Parr to see if he has any other comments.

2:51:05So I was just going to add on to that. So then what you're saying the responsibility of this

2:51:15process would be up to then the license display supervisor to do this? Through the Chair to

2:51:24Council Billings, it would be identified as part of the application process, whether it's the,

2:51:28if it's a discharge of an initial fireworks, then yes, it would have to be that individual. If it's

2:51:36someone walking around with a dog in advance, that may be somebody else, but the plan would help

2:51:43would help be designed by the Guelph Humane Society or recommended by the Guelph Humane Society.

2:51:47And then potentially would there be another cost getting to the mayor? Like how much is this going

2:51:52to cost me? So potentially could there be another cost to have that done? Walking dogs around?

2:52:02Through the Chair to Council Billings, that would be up to the event organizer. If there's

2:52:08a, like I would know the cost for that without that, with respect to the application process,

2:52:13that would be part of the $100 fee. Okay. And then so now we're on cost, the cost of the insurance.

2:52:19So staff at this time, present time, no idea with respect to how much the fireworks insurance

2:52:26would cost for a professional display. Through the Chair to Council Billings, that's information

2:52:35we can get back, but again, it would depend on the type of display, the length of display,

2:52:39where it's being held, the number of people in attendance. But we can get some information based

2:52:45on Canada Day and some other events. We can look at that. Okay. So in the past then with the Canada

2:52:53Day fireworks display, say even Rotary, they didn't have then fireworks insurance then.

2:53:01Through the Chair to Council Billings, with respect to the display set of gone in the past,

2:53:07with Canada Day, a lot of these conversations that we're having about mitigation for animals

2:53:13and insurance and having a licensed person discharge them are already in effect.

2:53:18All right. So the idea is that we're just making it more formal than it was before,

2:53:23but we can get you those numbers to give you an idea. And then what's missing is the proposed,

2:53:28through you Madam Chair, the proposed separation distance in feet, because I think there's going

2:53:35to be large. So therefore, of course, again, so backyards because we talked about, well,

2:53:41it wouldn't be allowed in backyards. So I'm assuming that it would be quite a lot of footage.

2:53:51If directed by Council to make the, to issue a permit based fireworks system, we can come up

2:53:58with best practices used by other cities. I can provide prior to next Council what best practices

2:54:06are done in other cities in terms of discharge distance. Okay. And then the last question,

2:54:12Madam Chair, is the safety inspection that's done and it would be paid for just for clarity. So

2:54:19that safety inspection would be done and paid for by the 108 dollar fee? Yes or no? That is correct.

2:54:30Through the chair. That is correct. Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Are there any more questions

2:54:38before we go to comments? Okay. Order? Yes. We're going to go to comments now. Yes, Councillor

2:54:48Kaden? My point of order is would I be able to move my motion as a motion of substitution?

2:54:55No, I don't believe that's the case. So we have a motion on the floor now. If that,

2:55:03well, what depending on the outcome of that, then you can move a subsequent motion.

2:55:07Unless you have an actual amendment that's not contrary to the original move to their staff

2:55:13recommendation. So I can't move a motion of substitution, an amendment by substitution?

2:55:20No, I don't believe you can. Can you confirm that? City Clerk. Through you, Madam Chair,

2:55:26that's correct. Our procedure valid is not contemplate amendments by constitution by

2:55:30replacement. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. So who wants to make some comments?

2:55:39Councillor O'Rourke? Thank you. Chair Downer. I'm just going to make a

2:55:45boost until I just want to make my list here. Kaden, Karon. Okay. I don't see any more for now.

2:55:53Okay. Go ahead. Thank you. Thank you, Chair Downer. So clearly there's lots of pros and cons.

2:55:59I'm going to support the recommendation today because I want a couple more weeks to hear from

2:56:05the public and to kind of weigh this out in my own mind. So that's why I'm going to support the

2:56:12bylaw or the recommendation. But I think that there's some time for folks to weigh in between now and then.

2:56:19Okay. Thank you. Councillor Boussa. Yes. Thank you, and through you, Madam Chair, I too will be

2:56:25supporting the permit system. I think that identifying where and when and really putting down

2:56:33on to pen on to paper considerations about safety is a good practice to do. And that, you know,

2:56:42the city is going to be a partner in this and communicating that there will be, you know,

2:56:46fireworks in your neighborhood park or whatever. So I'm not worried about the cost. I think,

2:56:52I think everything is reasonable. And I think in working with my experience with inflatable

2:56:57companies, bouncy councils, there's training, there's information, there is a partnership

2:57:03in making sure things happen. So I will be supporting the permit system.

2:57:07Okay. Thank you. Councillor Caton. Thank you. Through you. I think that

2:57:14the advance towards injury, the support for bands for the fire community and

2:57:26on behalf of those with environmental sensitivities and neurodivergence,

2:57:30that I think that a total ban is what we really need to go for. But I will support this for now,

2:57:37because I think it is a nice compromise and potentially bring forward a motion

2:57:45for a total ban at the end of the month, if this fails.

2:57:50Okay. Thank you. Councillor Kerron and then Councillor Gibson, who is now joining us by phone.

2:57:56Councillor Kerron. Thank you. Through you, Chair Downer. This is a good balance. I do,

2:58:01you know, Councillor Katelyn indicated a total ban. I don't think we're there yet. I think at some

2:58:06point in our city's future, there will be a total ban. I think the world is changing and the impact

2:58:15has changed and we will get there eventually. But this is a nice balance. I think that when

2:58:20Guelph experiences its first drone light show that there'll be an aha moment where we will realize

2:58:27that fireworks aren't the be all and end all of celebrating these cultural events and activities.

2:58:34But we're not there yet. So I think that at some point we will be, but I'll be supporting

2:58:39moving forward on the bylaw. What would the timing be? One last question. I don't see it in the report

2:58:46off the top. So wondering when this would potentially be coming back once Council

2:58:52at the end of the month has approved it. Through the Chair, to Councillor Kerron, if

2:58:58direction is given by Council to proceed, we will work with legal services to help develop that.

2:59:02I can get a timeline on that for the end of the month. Okay, great. And I think of all the bylaws

2:59:09and how they evolved over the years, everything from animal control to solid waste to bylaws evolve.

2:59:16And I think this is the next evolution. Thanks. Okay. Thank you. Councillor Gibson.

2:59:25Thank you. Through your Chair, Daner, can you hear me okay? Yes, I can. Okay. Terrific. Thank you.

2:59:31Great conversation, everyone. Thank you to staff for answering all of our questions.

2:59:35My deep fear here is that the actions of small few consumers

2:59:45going to end up penalizing the majority of consumers, those good neighbors that set off

2:59:49peaceful and tactful fireworks to celebrate their events. And I'm scared that this bylaw

2:59:55is not going to remove those bad consumers. I still believe we're going to have those 1130

3:00:00fireworks going off on on civic holidays unsanctioned. And so I'm not sure I want to penalize the

3:00:08majority of good citizens when it comes to fireworks. And I fear that this bylaw is going

3:00:14to unfairly target the good citizens of our city. So I want to support a bylaw. I want to support

3:00:22some form of regulation. But I'm going to just sit down and perhaps grab some time with staff

3:00:28over the next few weeks and perhaps bring forward some motions at the end of the month,

3:00:33talking about best management practices, talking about guidelines, talking about sort of authorized

3:00:39use of fireworks rather than outright prohibitions against consumer uses. So I won't be supporting

3:00:47it today, but I hope to bring forward some reasonable motions by the end of the month

3:00:52that will help me get to a place where I support it then. I hope that's clear. Thanks very much for

3:00:57the conversation. Okay, thank you, Councillor Gibson. Are there any other comments? Councillor Allt

3:01:03and Councillor Douner. I will be supporting the recommendations. I would love to have drone

3:01:10shows. I think that they are ultimately the answer, but the reality is that we're not there yet.

3:01:16But I do think about how Guelph has been progressive on smoking bans, on pesticide bans,

3:01:22sorting waste, and all of these are safety or health hazards that we have addressed in the past.

3:01:28Guelph's taken a leadership on these issues. In many ways, we're not taking leadership here,

3:01:32we're in the middle of the pack. Fireworks, we need to recognize our explosives, and there's been

3:01:36some compelling arguments that have been made. I think we need to be mindful of the arguments that

3:01:41have been made by fire prevention. This is a public safety issue, and it's also one that we need to

3:01:48recognize furthers, Guelph's initiatives on the environmental front. We've heard very well that

3:01:55there are a number of pollutants that are in fireworks, and we should be mindful of those no

3:02:00matter how miniscule they are. Thank you, Councillor Chew. Thank you, Madam Chair.

3:02:12For me, I'm very passionate about the public education component tied to this. So,

3:02:17similar to Councillor Gibson, I would like us to be able to move forward with something at the

3:02:23month, but for me, I really need to take some time to evaluate how this permit system is going to work,

3:02:29and how we're going to be able to work with stakeholders, because there are a lot of

3:02:34individuals in our community that, again, do not affiliate themselves with any community groups or

3:02:41neighborhood associations, and for me, I don't want there to be a communications gap, because

3:02:47at the end of the day, we have to deal with a lot of casework as councillors, dealing with

3:02:51these sorts of issues, and I would like to see some kind of resolution, but at the same time,

3:02:56we need to make sure that it's very clear across the board what we're doing. So, again, we don't have

3:03:02a bylaw in place that is very hard for us to manage administratively. So, I'll support this

3:03:10today, but at the same time, I would like to see us people have some conversations before the end of

3:03:15the month. So, thank you. Councillor Goller and then Mayor Guthrie. Thank you, and through you,

3:03:24Chair Daunert, I get a lot of complaints about fireworks from my constituents, and I would

3:03:33like to see a total ban on fireworks altogether, that I think that I will be supporting this today,

3:03:41and I will be looking to listen from constituents as we move forward to the end of the month.

3:03:47I've never heard from anyone that supports the fireworks in backyards in parks. So, this is an

3:03:59opportunity for those community members that have that perspective, and to what Councillor Gibson

3:04:06or Chu have spoken to. Maybe this is your opportunity to let us know why we should have a more

3:04:11permissive system, but as of this point, based on what I've heard, I would like to see a total ban,

3:04:16and failing that, I will be supporting this complete ban on personal use fireworks so that

3:04:23are only large organized groups that can make sure that their safety involved are the ones that are

3:04:30setting off fireworks. Thank you.

3:04:35Mayor Guthrie.

3:04:37Chair, so I'm not going to support it right now only because I think like a couple others,

3:04:47I just need to maybe just get some more information about this before the end of the month,

3:04:51but I will state upfront the status quo cannot remain. That part of the loan I think is known.

3:05:02You know, I just, I get probably 50-50, so it might be very similar to what the engagement was

3:05:10every year, you know, 10 years now. The next few days after, it's always the same. And you know,

3:05:19I think in some of these neighborhood areas, there's like legitimate complaints. I'll just say

3:05:25one story is, you know, somebody wakes up and they look aside in the morning, and there's holes

3:05:35that have been burned through their pool cover because of all the debris in the neighborhood

3:05:41coming down on them, and now they've got hundreds of dollars of damage to their pool cover. Yes,

3:05:47there's pets, and yes, there's like waste. I'm not just saying the pool cover issue is the only one,

3:05:52but that just gives a little bit of an example of some of the impacts that are happening. And so

3:05:59there has to be some form of, I think, regulations around this and safety perspectives around it,

3:06:07but I am not heavy on the administrative side. I think everyone knows that of me. I'm not a

3:06:13heavy administrative guy. And so that's what I want to work on between now and the end of the month

3:06:19to see where we can just try to make something a little bit easier to have that have the different

3:06:27tools that people are going to use in maybe a different way. And so I just want to thank,

3:06:33through you, Madam Chair, the delegations, but I actually do want to thank staff. I think they've

3:06:39landed on sort of a meet in the middle perspective, and it has isn't, you know, the pendulum isn't

3:06:45swung both ways too far. So we'll see what happens between now and the end of the month.

3:06:51Thank you very much. Okay. And just my brief, I'll be supporting the bylaw. I would say,

3:06:59due to what many have said that I think this is sort of a logical next step. And between now and

3:07:05the end of the month, I will have some legal liability questions for our staff regarding

3:07:13the city given the information that we've been given around injuries. So I will now call the vote.

3:07:20First, I'll call on Councillor Gibson. You've already stated that you won't be you'll be voting

3:07:27against. Is that the case? Yes. Okay. Thank you, Chair Downer, against today. Yes. Okay. So is there

3:07:33anyone else opposed? That's Mayor. Okay, we have Councillor Richardson, Mayor Guthrie, and Councillor

3:07:41Billings, and Councillor Chew. So is that's five? Through you, Madam Chair, that's five against

3:07:50there's 12 in person. So that would carry seven to five. Okay. Okay. So that passes. And we will

3:07:59continue this conversation at the end of the month. So thank you staff for bringing that forward. I