Report titled ‘Internal Audit Work Plan 2024–2026’ dated March 5, 2024, be approved. That the Internal Audit Charter Update dated March 5, 2024… be approved

2:00:44have had a chance to meet him but I'm sure most of you haven't he's been with us for about two years

2:00:48and I wanted to publicly thank him for his contributions to the audit team he's been very

2:00:53instrumental in helping our small audit team execute quality audits and also helping us to

2:00:59complete the audit plan for 2023 so thank you very much maraud and before we get into details of the

2:01:0624 to 26 audit plan and discuss the results of the execution of the 23 plan I wanted to

2:01:14highlight a few things about the process of setting the plan so as in prior years the

2:01:19audit plan was developed using a number of input factors these include feedback management and

2:01:24council consideration of emerging trends and results from an internal audit risk assessment

2:01:31I also want to assert that all internal audit activity from setting this plan to executing

2:01:35audits was done independently and objectively with no undue influence from management from the

2:01:41management team the 2023 audit plan uh listed in attachment three of the report uh um high

2:01:53sorry as of year end four of the five scheduled audits were completed the review of the recruitment

2:01:59hiring and retention practices within human resources was substantially completed as of

2:02:04December 2023 with an information report issued in February of 24 in addition development work on

2:02:11the multi-year enterprise risk management initiative was advanced and will continue throughout 2024

2:02:17during the year an update on the status of the implementation of opportunities identified through

2:02:23the service rationalization review was also completed and was reported to council the audit

2:02:32plan for 2024 listed in attachment one will focus on the completion of two value for money

2:02:37reviews as requested by council along with these two large reviews work on the ERM implementation

2:02:43will continue as this is an initiative that has been identified within the 2024 to 20 27 strategic

2:02:49plan attachment two in the report highlights potential projects to be completed for 2025 and 2026

2:02:57as part of our continuous improvement our commitment to continuous improvement at the

2:03:01end of each audit we ask clients to complete a survey using results to identify opportunities

2:03:07to enhance the audit process the benchmark standard is a score of 85 percent and our satisfaction

2:03:13score for 2023 was 98 percent an internal audit charter is required as part of the international

2:03:22standards for the professional practice of internal auditing the head of the internal

2:03:26audit department is responsible for drafting and updating the charter the charter should be reviewed

2:03:31and updated periodically at least every four years to ensure that it remains relevant to the needs

2:03:36of the city the updated audit charter is contained in attachment four of the report the audit charter

2:03:43outlines the authority roles and responsibility of the internal auditor and the staff at the city of

2:03:48gulf it describes how the internal audit department will provide value to the city the nature of the

2:03:54services we will provide and the specific focus or emphasis required to help the city achieve its

2:04:00objectives in addition it also establishes the head of internal audit reporting lines

2:04:06authorizing access to records personnel and scope of the work of the department

2:04:12and as directed by council through the multi-year budget process a value for money audit framework

2:04:17has been developed and is contained in attachment five the framework will guide the execution of

2:04:23two reviews in 2024 the value for money framework was developed through discussions with other

2:04:28municipalities that have developed these types of reviews to capture practices and information

2:04:37was also gathered from online reviews of various auditor general offices throughout canada as part

2:04:42of developing the framework with councils acceptance of the framework internal audit working with the

2:04:48support of other departments will determine suitable projects to begin the review phase

2:04:53project selection will be based on factors such as departmental budget size value to citizens where

2:04:58review would have significance availability of performance data such as kpi's benchmarking

2:05:04survey results and departmental readiness to undertake a review are there any questions

2:05:13thank you mr. jelastic before we go to questions and to comments i would look to somebody to

2:05:18please put the motions on the floor i have councillor or rourke and i have councillor

2:05:24katin thank you very much so i shall first go to questions from any of the councillors present

2:05:32councillor O'Rourke thank you chair Allt through you to mr. jelastic you know i'm

2:05:38inordinately excited about the value for money audits so i had a couple questions for you about

2:05:44the staff report the first one is on page two of sixteen it says if adequate resources are not

2:05:49available then the pace of the audits could vary right so in the event that you would have

2:05:56inadequate resources wouldn't we look why wouldn't we look at outsourcing so that that work or the

2:06:01corporation can continue through the chair to councillor O'Rourke uh yeah absolutely and

2:06:08through the motion that council has passed there was some money set aside for that top

2:06:11opportunity and so definitely as we're executing the value for money audits we will be looking to

2:06:17engage some outsourcing and some expertise for the particular projects that we have

2:06:22and so that would be an opportunity to sort of augment and reinforce some of the resourcing

2:06:26that we might need for that okay thanks um through chair Allt i've got a couple questions on the value

2:06:33for money framework and then two on the specific uh work plan okay so on the value for money um

2:06:42criteria and objectives i'm really pleased about those i'm curious to know if you know

2:06:47what the first two will be through you mr chair i apologize for uh for stickering there but uh at

2:06:55this point no we're still gathering information to be honest uh you know once the framework is

2:07:00approved in its current phase or current status it'll give us an opportunity then to continue to

2:07:04sort of fine tune and develop what the projects will be we have had some preliminary discussions

2:07:10and looked up with this potential areas and have started to gather some information

2:07:14about some potential uh items that we would like to target or consider targeting but at this point

2:07:19we really haven't finalized that and uh and and don't have a set plan yet at this point okay and um

2:07:26through chair Allt what will that process be when you've narrowed that down that is that within the

2:07:30executive team that there'll be a go ahead on on the first two or what does that look like uh yeah

2:07:36correct uh through you mr uh mr chair we will uh narrow down the list and then have uh have some

2:07:41discussions with senior management to uh to to sort of fine tune the scope and objectives of those

2:07:46reviews okay and through your chair Allt still on the framework so i really like the expected

2:07:53outcomes right of identification of inefficiencies and cost savings and effectiveness and accountability

2:07:58and transparency all those sound great so then when you move into the the process though

2:08:06it feels a little bit more like it's descriptive and then we'll have conversations and we'll

2:08:11find things and we'll come back to the stakeholders before we provide any results and

2:08:18so that the description doesn't feel as much like we're going to find savings and efficiencies etc

2:08:23it feels like it might be more descriptive than investigative right um and it's not that it's an

2:08:30adversarial process but the point of the value for money is to sort of drive some efficiencies

2:08:35or identify them so how do you maintain your independence in this process and how do we know

2:08:41that we're driving value from the value for money audit through you mr chair absolutely and and and

2:08:48i mean you know it wouldn't be an audit unless we had some of those uh backbone items like uh you

2:08:53know risk mitigation and process and and and and best practices in there so that'll sort of be the

2:09:00backbone of what we do and you're absolutely right i mean this uh this is uh a little bit more

2:09:07confrontational than i think the typical audits that we have encouraged or have had with uh with

2:09:12staff here and and yeah and that'll really be up to us uh as as professional independent

2:09:17objective auditors to make sure that we're driving home those points and trying to reach

2:09:20the outcomes that we uh we do see based on the scope and objectives that we have set

2:09:26thanks um through your chair i'll yeah probably not confrontation but more like

2:09:31creating capacity or investigative right uh so my other two questions pertain to the work plan

2:09:38i'm just curious we were just talking about the tree bylaw we know it's changing so i'm just curious

2:09:44why um the tree bylaw enforcement and inspection is one of the audit is on the audit list if it's

2:09:55changing that's for you mr chair uh that is on the longer term project list and was actually a

2:10:02project that was discussed with uh the general manager of parks as a possible audit project for

2:10:08a coming year uh given that there are some things that might be changing you know there might be an

2:10:14opportunity to maybe move that out a little bit until the process is more settled uh and certainly

2:10:19the only reason that one is on the list is because it was sort of one that was uh asked for uh in

2:10:24i believe it was the previous year okay and again the the future audit projects as you probably

2:10:30are aware from years past they they do generally shift and do uh either get moved up or back depending

2:10:35on you know trends and things that we see or get asked to do that are maybe more important okay

2:10:41thanks that one just struck me as odd because it should have more sort of longevity right to the

2:10:45recommendations my other question is um the cip growth community improvement uh plan grant program

2:10:53i thought we didn't currently have one um maybe with the exception of the downtown

2:10:59beautification grant so i'm just wondering do we currently have i should know this do we currently

2:11:05have a cip program and and i'm just wondering if not why it's one of the identified in the

2:11:14audit plan yeah through you mr chair uh i i believe that we do have a program in place

2:11:20this is another audit that was actually uh gleaned from discussions with the general manager

2:11:24of economic development uh based on his previous experiences that uh and and and his sort of newness

2:11:31to the role that maybe this would be something that would be a good focus area for audit to help him

2:11:35out with in terms of understanding the process and also for us to sort of become more comfortable

2:11:41that we have the right control elements in place for this granting process um through the chair to

2:11:48counselor um a work just if i could just add to that so we do have some programs that are

2:11:53currently in place i know we are looking to provide more cip so this value for money audit

2:11:58will actually help us in terms of um building those programs so uh we've got a lot of lessons

2:12:03learned and a lot of things that we can do to improve okay that's terrific thanks that's it

2:12:09and thank you very much counsel rourke just before i go to the next questions uh from the

2:12:15web page i think it is important for us as a council to recognize the second last paragraph

2:12:21on internal audit internal audit reports administratively to the chief administrative

2:12:26officer and functionally to the audit committee of council which is us in other words the actual

2:12:32authority this is the only actual committee uh the that has actual a direct interaction with staff

2:12:39without any filters other than the c a o is normally the person to whom you report to both

2:12:46functionally and uh and administratively this is we are the ones that control who the who

2:12:52what the audits are and who does the audits and that's why we now have mr. count with us as well

2:12:57and happy we do mayor guthrie thank you through you chair i just have a question of it's only

2:13:05clarity because i wanted to maybe look to raise it now but i think i think i think corporate

2:13:10services might be the right place to actually have this conversation so i just want to have

2:13:15the executive team or yourself either validate or not but i'm pretty sure it is and so when i was

2:13:21looking at um some of the outstanding recommendations from the kpmg report the service rationalization

2:13:27report that council unanimously approved a few years ago um one of the recommendations was to look at

2:13:35how we could back end a lot of the services from all of our outside boards police library

2:13:42all agencies and outside boards and it wouldn't have any actual direct issue with any of the

2:13:47front-facing services at all that the citizens may um intersect with uh but it it actually

2:13:54identified in the kpmg that we could look to be saving between 500 000 to a million dollars a year

2:13:59um but that hasn't been actioned yet and so i thought i thought maybe um trying to get some of

2:14:08that work going would fall under audit or fall under the value for money um audits that you were to

2:14:15do however i'm thinking it's maybe more of a corporate services uh department and discussion

2:14:23uh and so can i just can i just get some validation on that because as i said

2:14:30we could we have 500 000 to a million dollars a year potentially that we could be looking at

2:14:35savings with no front-facing service issues to our citizens it's all in the back end it's on the

2:14:42list to do i'm just wondering where that best that conversation best sits uh through the chair to

2:14:50the mayor uh yeah no and thank you for that and i think uh Colleen is going to speak to that from

2:14:55corporate services perspective so through uh the chair um we've had some quick discussions today

2:15:01and obviously deputy ceo lee is not here today and neither is ceo steward so i think uh the best

2:15:05response that i can give is that we can take that away and have a follow-up conversation about where

2:15:10best that that is added from an update point of view um obviously include miss baker in that

2:15:15conversation i think we all agree that it doesn't um appropriately fit within the internal audit

2:15:21work plan um and so we'll take it away and i think to your point it does need to come through

2:15:25corporate services there's also a piece of it that may need to be considered enclosed

2:15:29if depending on what there are in terms of staffing implications so we'll take that away um and can get

2:15:35back to council um in some way shape or form before the end of the month certainly thank you very

2:15:44much do we have any further questions and see oh councillor councillor Goller totally forgot about

2:15:53you uh thank you and through you chair old um thank you for the presentation there is something

2:16:00that that i did not see here uh and i'm this is sort of one of the main um complain areas that i get

2:16:07from from community members uh it's about our development um application inspections approval

2:16:14process so is that out of scope of the internal audit process in terms of building inspections

2:16:20and and approvals or is there a reason why it's not being considered as as an item to to explore

2:16:26i'm just surprised that you know i've seen a lot of things here but but that being one of the main

2:16:31things that i get complaints about it's not something that appears to be uh in in the work plan

2:16:39through you mr chair uh yeah no it definitely is within the scope of our work uh it just hasn't

2:16:44made the list for the last uh for the next couple years but certainly if there is a sort of an increased

2:16:52trend towards that being a more um an area that we should focus on we can certainly add it to a

2:16:58future audit plan once we sort of understand what the scope and objectives of that type of audit

2:17:02would be okay certainly not it's not an oversight for any reason of not including it and it is

2:17:08possible to be audited in the future as CAO homes and through the through the chair to council galler

2:17:13so um through our planning department we are already going through a review of the processes um

2:17:18through um digitization and so it's already under review anyway so perhaps when that gets

2:17:24finished in a in a future work plan that robert might be able to take a look at it at that point

2:17:29but we're it's already under review because we already understand we have legislation we have

2:17:32to abide by and we do want to keep moving our processes we want to keep improving them as time

2:17:37goes on thank you thank you for that and thank you for that update uh the PDCO homes um to to the

2:17:45extent that our review is currently being undertaken uh internally will will those results be presented

2:17:51to to uh council at some point so that we know what improvements have been made uh as a part of this

2:17:57review um well we do have through the chair to council galler we do have um regular kpi reporting

2:18:04that comes to council anyway so part of that we'll be reporting some of the improvements that we've

2:18:09been making over over the last little bit and also i understand that uh that planning also does

2:18:16issue an information report that does give you updated stats on on how things are moving along

2:18:20in terms of uh our housing applications okay thank you for that update thank you chair thank you

2:18:26and i will now move to comments and looking around councillor Caton

2:18:33thank you through you chair uh i just wanted to thank mr gelastic and his team for the aod a

2:18:40audits i'd noticed uh there was a lot of really great work across all departments um around the time

2:18:48getting new initiatives like the bus stops and different park um things in the master plan so

2:18:54i just really wanted to say that you did a great job there and i appreciate that work thanks

2:19:01councillor work thanks councillor all through you to uh mr gelastic and your team i also really

2:19:08appreciate the acceleration of the enterprise wide risk management uh framework which i think is

2:19:13really critical when we're setting budgets people come and they delegate all the time and they

2:19:17they want new things or expansions of things they see but we also need to be able to mitigate

2:19:21those risks and to make the right investments to mitigate those risks so i appreciate that

2:19:25and i really appreciate the work done in bringing forward the value for money audits thank you very

2:19:32much and my comments are very uh to the point with the written report on page three councillors i

2:19:37wouldn't encourage you to uh please consider reading again the internal audit charter and the

2:19:44value for money framework which is on three of sixteen and on page ten i think it's worth all of

2:19:50our while to remember the authorities standards of audits practice and the independence and

2:19:55objectivity of the internal audit um uh exercise um please also note that uh whereas general motors

2:20:03has about 20 internal auditors the city of guelph has two this provides limitations on what can be

2:20:09done in any year and i certainly appreciate everything that mr con and mr gelastic have been

2:20:15thank you very much with that i shall proceed to the vote is there anyone who is opposed

2:20:24seeing none i would declare this uh passed thank you very very much

2:20:30and with that i do i pass it back to you chair mayor guthrie

2:20:34very well then at the end of the day um i think that the best thing today is to do is to look for

2:20:41any announcements from anyone seeing none i would be looking for a motion to adjourn and i see

2:20:48councillor Caron and mayor guthrie wish to adjourn is there anyone opposed to going home

2:20:55i think we all want out of here i would declare the meeting adjourned and thank you very much see you

2:21:01again soon