Authorize the updates to Guelph Greener Homes Loan Program By-law (2023) - 20764

1:11Okay.

1:12Okay, that would fall under you, Chair Ororak.

1:18Chair, Vice Chair, Klassen.

1:22Okay.

1:23Okay, then we're going to have to wait until everything else is done.

1:29So would it be okay if I just, could I ask you, Councillor Gower, to move consent then

1:35for all the rest?

1:36Yes.

1:37And seconded by Councillor Allt?

1:38Thank you.

1:39I hope you don't mind me doing that.

1:40I just want to be efficient.

1:41So okay, is there anything on those items?

1:44No?

1:45Okay, I'll call the vote.

1:47Does anyone against everything on consent there other than the Greener Homes one?

1:51Okay, so that passes.

1:52So that's good.

1:53So anyone that was there for that, those other things, they're all done.

1:57We'll hold the Greener Homes one until you can chair that section, Chair Klassen.

2:05And now we're back then to the, me, Governance.

2:09So we are here for the lobbyist registry under 4.1.

2:12We're going to kick off with a presentation from our clerk.

2:16And then we'll open it up from there.

2:19Okay.

2:20Thank you, Chair Guthrie, Mr. Mayor, and to committee.

2:24I'm going to, if committee will indulge me, I'll stay put here for this.

2:28I will be brief, and that's my rationale for staying put here.

2:32I won't go into great detail the report that's before you outlines the fundamentals of the

2:36program.

2:37Committee will know that the lobbyist registry role is a component of the accountability and

2:40transparency regime under the Municipal Act.

2:43Under this regime, except for our friends in Toronto, where they have requirements to

2:48have all of the integrity officers, accountability officers in place, the Municipal Act provides

2:55some optional appointments of accountability and transparency officers.

2:59So outside from the integrity commissioner and your closed meeting investigator, which

3:02are required, the lobbyist registrar is one of those optional accountability and transparency

3:08positions that is brought in place to enable to support and enforce a lobbyist registry

3:17by-law.

3:18We reported in 2019 on the potential of a lobbyist registry being implemented.

3:22At that time, the implementation of such registries were limited to sort of larger municipalities

3:27in the sector, but since that time, more councils have implemented lobbyist registry programs.

3:33And as we've noted in the report, a registry is not necessarily intended to prohibit,

3:37minimize or reduce the effectiveness of lobbying.

3:42It places no limits on the amount or type of lobbying that can take place.

3:45Rather, it's really simply intended to provide clarity and transparency around who lobbies

3:50public office holders and when such lobbying incurs.

3:54In contemplating the program and design of this program, staff will look to work to strike

3:59a balance that respects, you know, the not looking to add an additional layer of complexity

4:06or undue process when there's no financial or business interest on the part of the lobbyist.

4:11Our goal here is to again offer a program and a design of a program that allows relative

4:17ease of access, relative use of the program for those that seek to lobby public office

4:22holders.

4:23Obviously, ease of use from the public perspective is paramount for us as well, but we're not

4:28looking to add a high degree of complexity or undue process.

4:32And in closing, I'll simply note that this is just again one step along the way to this

4:35program becoming fully implemented.

4:37We'll obviously be back with council at the end of this month.

4:40And we also will pending your direction today.

4:42We'll be back in July with the draft bylaw so that council at that time can further fine

4:47tune or ask further questions if you have any.

4:50So I'll leave it at that chair Guthrie, Mr. Mayor, and turn it back to you and the committee.

4:56Great.

4:57Thank you.

4:58Is there anyone that wants to move this for consideration?

5:01Okay.

5:02We'll go with Alton and O'Rourke as seconding.

5:05And then is there any questions, maybe just to the presentation to Stephen?

5:11Alt?

5:12Thank you, Mayor Guthrie.

5:14More of a rhetorical question, but a request that we consider whether we should also include

5:21nonprofit and community groups and individuals who don't necessarily have a monetary interest,

5:29but nonetheless can potentially have an impact on city programs and facilities.

5:38So as it stands right now, the bylaw is obviously not before you.

5:43We would have to build out the definitions of who would be required to file a registration

5:49or a registry should they be lobbying.

5:54The intention for us is to define lobbying as communication with a public office holder

5:58by an individual who is paid or represents financial or business interests.

6:04A not-for-profit organization can sometimes be a tricky challenge there.

6:08And I think that's acknowledged.

6:09Again, Councillor Allt, you know, it's sort of a rhetorical aspect to your question.

6:15You know, a not-for-profit organization that might be advocating, I'll just use an example,

6:19more bike lanes, might not qualify as a lobbyist under the bylaw because the organization has

6:25no financial or business interest.

6:28There is a cost office to the city to build bike lanes, but not necessarily any financial

6:34gain for the not-for-profit.

6:36That could be distinct and different from some not-for-profits that may lobby for, for

6:41example, trails.

6:42If I use that as an example, I'm picking purely random aspects here.

6:48If a trail organization was seeking a grant from the city to help fund some form of development

6:53and they were engaging with members of council to sort of impact a policy decision or a direction

6:58or an outcome of council, then that could be construed as lobbying.

7:01So there is some aspects in there that will need to be flushed out in greater detail when

7:06we bring that bylaw back.

7:07But those are sort of two examples where there really does need to be a demonstration of

7:12financial gain.

7:14Not-for-profits can have gain if they're the organizations that may be subject to receiving

7:19grant funding or something to that effect.

7:21So I'll leave it at that.

7:22It is a bit vague, but we will attempt to strike a balance there for council.

7:27And again, that will come back in the July report.

7:29And thank you for that.

7:30I entirely understand that.

7:33Just if it's takeaway for you, but I was talking to Mr. Evan Ferrari yesterday from

7:38Emerge who really did believe that his group should be included in a lobbyist registry

7:44despite their status as a non-profit.

7:47And I thought that was actually really quite altruistic of him and wondered whether that

7:52would carry forward to others.

7:53I'll leave it with you.

7:56Thanks, Councillor Roark.

7:57Thank you, Margot, through you too, Mr. O'Brien.

8:01So I have been both a provincially registered lobbyist and a federally registered lobbyist.

8:08And in both those cases, that would lobby government for relationship building, for a future policy

8:16consideration, you do have to register.

8:18So anybody who, and there's a percentage of your time allocated to that, but any of those

8:23government communications do have to be captured.

8:26And from a transparency perspective, would the city not benefit from having that same

8:33type of clarity?

8:34So it doesn't have to be onerous.

8:37But so, for example, I worked with the Canadian Index of Well-Being.

8:40They wanted the federal government to apply a well-being lens to its policies with its

8:45eight dimensions.

8:46So there was no direct pecuniary interest for the Canadian Index of Well-Being in that

8:51case.

8:52So it was a policy approach, but they had the same level of transparency as large oil

8:57and gas or large multinationals seeking policy changes.

9:01So there's nothing bad in terms of government relations.

9:05Law-being is a term that people kind of bendy about with a negative connotation.

9:09But any organization, nonprofit or private, can say, you know what, we know that when

9:14you created this policy, you had a policy outcome in mind.

9:18And this doesn't quite work for us for whatever reason, or it could be tweaked this way.

9:22So will the clerk's office consider the inclusion of those nonprofits just for greater transparency

9:29in terms of, you know, why did that priority list end up the way it was?

9:34And who is consulting with government just for the sake of transparency?

9:39Will you take that under consideration?

9:41Yeah.

9:42And through you, Chair Guthrie, Mayor Guthrie, to Councillor O'Rourke, by your questioning

9:47and also Councillor O'Rourke's questioning, it's certainly something we can report back.

9:52We can perhaps offer a little bit of additional context and text in the staff report that

9:56comes back in July with a bit more detail.

9:58Ultimately, the decision will be up to council about how we define lobbying.

10:02Is non-for-profit included in that or not?

10:04Are there thresholds?

10:05And you and I had a conversation offline about sort of materiality of aspects.

10:09So leave it with us.

10:11We'll certainly include an explicit component of that staff report that speaks to nonprofit.

10:16We'll make a recommendation either way.

10:18Again, we're still in the process of investigating what other municipalities have done, but we'll

10:21make a recommendation to committee in July.

10:24And if it's the wish of committee to sort of deviate or change the staff recommendation,

10:29that's perfectly fine and obviously within council purview.

10:31So we can certainly take it back.

10:33Great.

10:34Thanks.

10:35I'll have a comment later.

10:36You just, you can have your comment now if you want.

10:38Sure.

10:39So through you, Mayor Guthrie, that my comment is having been registered both potentially

10:44and federally.

10:45I initially in 2018 didn't think there would be a real need for Guelph to have a lobbyist

10:50registry because it makes those two registries make no real difference between a small nonprofit

10:57or a large multinational.

10:59And so all it does is create a list basically of who's talking to whom and on what topics.

11:05I've really changed my perspective given strong mayor's powers.

11:08I've said it many times, my concern is not with Mayor Guthrie, but with now strong mayor's

11:12legislation that allows a mayor to bring forward a bylaw and pass it with a third of council

11:17or to veto or to make, you know, present their own budget.

11:22I think we need some more transparency in the background in terms of who is speaking to

11:27elected officials and we should be held to that same standard.

11:30Yep.

11:33So I'm just going to go to Guller and then to Busatil and then to Gibson.

11:42And that looks like that's it.

11:45Thank you, through your worship to staff.

11:48Thank you for preparing this report.

11:51Something I did not see is the question of the voting record at council.

11:57Oftentimes when I have to find the way that myself or other colleagues voted, I have to

12:04Google and figure out what meeting that was at and then I have to go search that and then

12:09I have to look down and try to figure out where that vote was made and it's not an easy

12:15process.

12:16So I'm wondering, is there a portion of this or a consideration?

12:20If we are concerned about people lobbying, then are we not also concerned about the actual

12:26votes of council members to see how that aligns?

12:30If I could ask how that fits into this process?

12:36Through you, Mayor Guthrie, to Councillor Goller, great question.

12:39The voting record is not something that's contemplated in this by-law or that would come forward.

12:44It wouldn't have any material effect or change on how voting records are recorded for council.

12:51What's interesting is council and so the aggregation of vote totals is still remains and the formal

12:58record of that is in the minutes of committee or council.

13:02Every pandemic we would vote by voting system.

13:06That voting system would display on screen, however, the data that came from that was

13:12not what I'll use the term as it was not machine readable.

13:15It wasn't easily disseminated.

13:16It wasn't something we would put in, for example, an open data set to be used and resourced

13:22by those in the community that might want to avail themselves of that information.

13:24The minutes remain the true record of council's decisions.

13:29As council is well aware and committee is aware, we've moved to anybody opposed, all

13:36in favour and the motion is then deemed carried by the chair.

13:40We still record which members of council voted in favour or not in the minutes, but this

13:46wouldn't change anything to do with how that data would be more readable from a system

13:54standpoint.

13:56My question is how useful is having a registry of lobbying if it's then not easy for the

14:06public to figure out how members of council actually voted?

14:11Just in terms of the transparency, there is a room for this to actually also look into

14:15that so that if I go down the registry and I see that I was lobbied by say, Emerge 12

14:21because they wanted more bicycle lanes or something along those lines, but then the public cannot

14:27see whether I voted in support or against those things.

14:30I'm just wondering, we were moving ahead with a record of lobbying, but where is the easy

14:38to find record of how people actually cast their votes?

14:42Is that something that could be considered for June as part of this report?

14:48Chair Guthrie, it's something that would need some system changes on the back end for

14:52the system.

14:53Our current in meeting system we use today with eScribe does permit the recording of

14:59votes, but it is, it would certainly slow the meeting process down and we've always

15:04talked about the efficiency and effectiveness of these council meetings.

15:07Not to say that voting and displaying those votes would be a detriment to that, but the

15:13reality is it would take a degree of training on the part of council to sort of make sure

15:18that your devices are supported and you're ready to be able to offer those votes using

15:22the system.

15:25The linkage and the correlation to this policy and this bylaw, the lobbying bylaw is really

15:30the intent is simply just to share in a public form in a registration and a list who has

15:36lobbied elected members of office and public office holders and that's the extent of the

15:41bylaw.

15:42So that's the whole intent and goal of the bylaw and a registry program is to do just

15:46that.

15:47It would be then incumbent to your point, Councillor Gault, or for members of the community to

15:50say, oh, I've seen that a member of council or a member of senior staff has been lobbied

15:54in X-Way.

15:56I will watch to see the outcome of that if a matter comes before council that is related

16:01to the person that was lobbying the office holder.

16:04But really this is about a public representation and a listing of those that engage with elected

16:11officials and senior city staff, public office holders at large in lobbying efforts and presenting

16:17that in a public format that is viewable for all in the community and beyond.

16:22Okay.

16:23Okay.

16:24Thank you for that explanation.

16:26I still think that the other part is missing for full transparency and I will ask about

16:33that again in June and I'll follow up.

16:36Thank you.

16:39Did you want to have any comments at all at this time?

16:42No, you're good.

16:43Okay.

16:44So, Bousatil and then Gibson and then I have comments.

16:47Let's start.

16:48Thank you.

16:49Thank you to the staff for this, for the start of this process.

16:53I know as a new councillor, sometimes I'm very unclear about is this lobbying?

16:58Is this just asking for information?

17:00In reading this, the piece that I saw missing is very similar to what Councillor Allt and

17:07O'Rourke raised is systemic advantage is the word that I wrote down in my notes.

17:15Aside from pecuniary interest, the systemic advantage and it does fall into the not for

17:19profits and the community organizations and the example of the bike lanes and so on because

17:25it means one interest over another that translates into operational budget or policy and so on.

17:32And so I'm not going to belabor the point but that is that equity lens that I didn't

17:36see in this.

17:37And so my question for staff is that in developing this, are they aware of any other municipalities

17:44that have taken that equity lens systemically to this process because there are interests

17:53that are not being heard because they don't have the capacity to come to the table, to

18:00the grown up table, let's just say.

18:02So that is a question that I had about this.

18:08Thank you, Councillor Busuttil and through you, Chair Guthrie.

18:11Something we can certainly take away, you know, our approach quite frankly with all aspects

18:15and all development of policies and programs and by-laws, et cetera, across the city and

18:20I know that my colleagues on the executive team would echo that is we have come a long

18:24way in terms of applying a diversity, equity and inclusion lens.

18:29It's something that is part and parcel with what we do when we implement or contemplate

18:35the design of new programs or services and so this is no different.

18:39We will certainly take the commentary, Councillor Busuttil, and consider that as well.

18:44We do have the need to again evaluate this through that diversity and equity inclusion

18:48lens with our colleagues in the office of the CAO and so we'll look to do that as we

18:52continue to move forward and put finalization and final touches on this as it makes its

18:58way to the July cycle.

19:01Thank you and I guess, you know, it's that systemic advantage that is what I'm speaking about.

19:08Thank you very much.

19:11I like that terminology, Councillor Busuttil.

19:13I wrote that down.

19:15I'll remember that one.

19:17Again, Gibson is my last.

19:19Go ahead, Gibson.

19:21And then Billings.

19:22Sorry, then Billings, I see.

19:23Mayor Guthrie, I'll primarily comments but I think it comes out as a form of question.

19:28It's related back to the just the governing or the tracking of meetings and I think that's

19:35really what it comes down to.

19:36I get lobbied.

19:38I do lobby at the federal level as well and it really is we really do need to track

19:45meetings.

19:45I've said this for many years.

19:46I think far too much of city business takes place at the Albion and other coffee shops downtown.

19:52And I think governing, you know, I've heard it on Council before we don't meet with developers

19:56and I think that's fair but I've also there seems to be no governance in what comes to

20:00meeting with nonprofits and other people that are financially gaining from the city

20:04and City Hall with financial contracts.

20:06So my question to staff is I heard the comment, leave it with us.

20:10No offence to staff.

20:11I'm growing increasingly uncomfortable with that term just because I want to make sure

20:14I get my say in early before these policies come forward.

20:18So will there be some governance around nonprofits being listed as lobbyists

20:26and then tracking of meetings with Council members stemming from the lobbyist registry?

20:33Through you, Chair Guthrie to Councillor Gibson.

20:36Yes, the answer is yes, but I also respect what you've said.

20:39If you'd like to have a form of emotion, we're certainly willing to to receive that.

20:43Obviously, we're happy to receive that and have obviously I believe that the committee is

20:48it's it's your will whether to table that or not.

20:52But what I can commit to is is I've heard from from yourself,

20:55Councillor O'Rourke and Councillor Allt just in this discussion here about the importance of

21:01further investigating the concept of non-profits, not for profits, and how they

21:06dovetail into this into this policy and this bylaw.

21:09We will take that away.

21:10We will evaluate that.

21:11We'll determine what other municipalities have done.

21:13We will bring some form of a recommendation on a report in July to that effect, whether it to be

21:19to add, you know, sort of rigorous and specific language in that regard,

21:23or if it's if it's deemed to be not a common practice in other municipalities for good reason

21:28and good rationale, we'll also offer that as well.

21:30So I can commit to that.

21:32One thing I did want to also add, pardon me, is add because your comment was sort of the

21:36process around meetings and supporting those meetings and documenting those meetings.

21:41We've thought long and hard about tools and resources that we can provide to members of

21:44council and senior public office holders, senior staff, that you could say,

21:49hey, I'm in a meeting and it feels like it's lobbying.

21:52It's incumbent on the lobbyist to record that.

21:56So we can offer, for example, quick handout cards with a QR code that would take them to that

22:01registry so that they could access that and avail themselves.

22:03So we would we're contemplating all of those tools and resources that we think will make this again.

22:10Our goal here is to make this as frictionless as possible, while still allowing for that good,

22:19open and accountable and transparent viewing of the registry.

22:22So we'll contemplate that.

22:23We'll bring you some notions back and ideas in that regard in July.

22:28Again, up to you, whether you'd like to table a motion, I will commit verbally as much as that's

22:33worth for committee.

22:34Yeah, no, that's fine.

22:34We'll have some commentary on that in the July report.

22:37Yeah, I guess I'll leave it with an example as a comment.

22:40So the optics of council members meeting with a developer with a proposal coming before council

22:45for sort of a site plan amendment or an official plan amendment.

22:49The optics don't look good and those those meetings should be tracked.

22:53I completely accept that.

22:54But the other obvious one that kind of doesn't have the same label, but is the exact same,

22:58is coming down the coming down the track on a budget night and community benefit agreements

23:03are being negotiated, talked nonprofits come forward with big asks and, you know,

23:09nine out of 12 council members have met individually, privately with that with that

23:14nonprofit to discuss the request and the public isn't aware.

23:18So those are things that I think are the same and optically should be observed the same way.

23:24And I welcome that kind of transparency on council.

23:27So I thank you very much for hearing me out.

23:30And again, the leave it with me comment is fine.

23:33I just want to make sure I get my my my comments in before it goes away.

23:37Thank you.

23:39Thank you.

23:39And then it looks like Billings had a question.

23:42And then I'll go to

23:46Kate and for comments and alt as well.

23:51Through you, Your Worship, I just wanted to ask because it doesn't seem like there's been any

23:55public engagement or consultation with those that will be affected by this.

23:59So I was just wondering from now until the time you bring back the bylaw,

24:03will there be any engagement public engagement?

24:08Thank you, Council Billings.

24:10Good question.

24:10And through you, Chair Guthrie, we've actually already had

24:13conversations loosely and we will continue to have them in a more formal regard.

24:19I'll use the example that I had a conversation with the Chamber of Commerce about this.

24:24And obviously they've got some questions about this process and this bylaw

24:28as it relates to their members.

24:30And so we'll continue to have conversations with it won't be sort of full, broad based

24:36community engagement in the same way that you'd see for large infrastructure projects that,

24:41span across the city, but we will be doing what I will call targeted engagement with those that

24:46might be impacted this, predominantly from an awareness and an education standpoint,

24:50so that they understand what their obligations would be under this new program.

24:55Okay. And also, under key finding, it's the registry is a useful tool for promoting transparency

25:01in local government. However, what you're proposing here today is only one narrow slice of the pie.

25:11So, for example, when we get lobbied, when there's a massive lobbying campaign,

25:16so we could receive 100 or more emails with respect to a topic,

25:24to me, I don't think that seemingly is captured in what you're proposing here. Am I correct?

25:32Through you, Chair Guthrie to Councillor Billings,

25:35you're probably quite right that emails from your constituents on a contentious matter,

25:41a topic wouldn't be considered lobbying. That's the relationship that members of

25:47Council have with their constituents to be able to sort of input and understand

25:51local impacts of programs and services. That wouldn't change. Now, if there were subsets of

25:56your constituent base that stood to, at least as we've contemplated now, again, I've heard loud

26:02and clear about the commentary around non-profit, but at least as we've presented in this report,

26:07if those constituents were potentially to receive financial gain from their engagement with you,

26:13then that would be considered lobbying. So, there is going to need to be a degree of public awareness,

26:19public education that we absolutely do plan on initiating pending Council's adoption of this.

26:26We're also planning, as you've seen in the report, we would plan a staged sort of launch of this.

26:31So, adoption of a by-law in June, that would give us time over the course of a month or so and into

26:36the early fall to create awareness about the program. The program would actually come into

26:41effect, we're proposing September 1, but enforcement of the program wouldn't begin until January. So,

26:47we would have the ability to continue to create awareness, educate those that might be subject

26:53to the by-law on the program, and make sure that there's good community awareness about this.

26:58Okay. And then I just want clarity on one issue. It's the communication by a resident

27:05on a general neighborhood or a policy issue. Say it's a development application, and so

27:12the constituent lives beside the proposed development. And they do feel that there is

27:18a financial interest because they believe their property value would decline. So, my question is,

27:24then, do they have to register because there is that financial interest?

27:32Through Chair Guthrie, in that example you've provided, no. The answer would be no in that case.

27:37It would require that individual that lives next door to that development to be

27:42financially gaining from the development itself, i.e., revenue generated or income generated from

27:49that development or some form of financial gain from that development. It does beg the question,

27:55and I think you've hit on the notion that actually, quite frankly, exists for members of council under

28:00the conflict of interest legislation. There is direct and indirect pecuniary interest, where some

28:05of those things could come to bear. In our evaluation of lobbyist registries across the province as

28:10they exist now, the example you provide would not constitute lobbying. But again, this is something

28:16that we can continue to work through. There's broad permissive space in the Municipal Act for

28:20councils to define lobbying within their bylaws. And so, we see the definition of lobbying

28:28vary somewhat, although there is some good consistency across the province. There is some

28:32variation in how different municipalities have defined lobbying. So, there would be the ability,

28:37again, back to the non-profit commentary we've had. There would be the ability for council to sort of

28:42offer some nuance language around what is lobbying, what constitutes lobbying, who constitutes a lobbyist.

28:50And defining more the term, quote, general, I think would be helpful.

28:58The other question I had through you, Mr. Mayor, is, okay, because of the extension of the strong

29:03mayor powers, have you seen other municipalities looking at a registry, but it's just for the

29:11mayor's position because they're the ones with the power so that you would have to register if

29:19you're lobbying the mayor? Through you, Mayor Guthrie, to councillor Billings, that's a great

29:27question. And I have sort of backtracking what I just said. There's broad permissive space in the

29:32Act to define many aspects. The Act does define what a public office holder is. And so, it is

29:38expansive beyond simply just the head of council. So, it does talk about a member of municipal

29:44council or any person, if there was this case, a staff person of a member of council. It talks

29:50about an officer, an employee of the organization. We've, in consultation with the executive team,

29:55we've felt that it was important to sort of include senior staff groups in this approach as well,

30:01especially those that have significant delegated authority from council. It includes members of

30:05a local board of the municipality. And so, it extends beyond council as well. But to answer

30:12your question, Councillor Billings, we're not permitted, because of the definition of the Act,

30:16of a public office holder, to narrow it down simply to just the head of council.

30:20Okay. Thank you for your help, Steen.

30:27Great. Councillor, Kate, and I know you, I was going to kick you off with comments, but do you,

30:33do you mind if I just ask one quick question then, and then the questions are done, and then I'll go

30:37to you? Okay. Thank you. So, I just want to be clear on one aspect. What if there, what if there

30:45isn't, what if the individual or group is not there to actually gain anything financial,

30:54but actually to stop something? So, the, what I'm trying to give as an example would be

31:01a neighborhood group that exists to stop a supportive housing project. So, they register as

31:08like a corporation, an actual neighborhood group corporation, and they gather everyone together,

31:13and they, they are now an entity, and they are trying to stop something. So, there's no actual

31:21financial gain for them, but they are legitimately working us all to not have something built,

31:28as an example, affordable housing or supportive housing. With that, there's nothing to gain

31:34financially for them other than they just want to have homes not built. To you, Chair, that's a

31:42good question. Really, the lobbyist registry and the concept of a lobbyist registry as it's,

31:50as it's contemplated in the act hinges upon financial gain and financial interest, but it's

31:55a good comment, and it's something that we can certainly contemplate again as we come back in,

31:59in July. My, my, my sentiments at this point in time, again, without having sort of taking a

32:07deeper dive into that specific kind of an example, would be that it would not apply because it doesn't

32:11appear there's a direct financial interest or financial gain, but it's something we can certainly

32:16research. Yeah, so I recognize the quandary a little bit of that, but it's kind of like an

32:22opposite, an opposite lobbying. There is no gain, there is no financial gain, but their, but their

32:29mandate is to not have, I'm just giving an example, not have supportive housing built in their

32:35neighborhood, and they become a structured neighborhood group entity to try to, to try to

32:39actually stop something. So they're, it's not individual citizens. I think that that's different.

32:43I'm definitely making that different. Okay, thank you. I know that's a takeaway, so you'll take

32:47that away. Yeah, we, we have that ability again to define lobbying. That's very clear,

32:52something that council has the ability to define in the bylaw what lobbying is, and so we can get

32:57a degree of granularity back for, for council and committee in July. That would be good.

33:03Just before I go to Councillor Caton, I think I've triggered a Councillor Downer just to have a

33:09follow-up on that question. So I'll go to you and then I'll go to Councillor Caton. Okay, yeah, so

33:12just in that question, wouldn't that be under an application though, because I like a planning

33:17application that they're opposed to development in their neighborhood. So my understanding is from

33:23what you've said is that if somebody, if people are responding to an application in the, under a

33:31planning process, they wouldn't be considered lobbyists. Through you, Chair Guthrie to Councillor

33:36Downer, yet that's absolutely accurate. So without, without knowing the specifics of what Mayor

33:40Guthrie was contemplating, where there's an application and a process through a planning

33:45act process, an application, then that wouldn't be considered lobbying. But if there was just a

33:51general interest to voice, you know, opposition to some aspect, that's where we would be looking

33:58to the financial component. So where there's a planning application, where they've been formally

34:02involved in that process, it would not constitute lobbying. They would be able to delegate to

34:06council, for example, when that landed and present their opinions on, on, on a, on an official plan

34:11amendment or a zoning bylaw amendment or something to that effect. But if it was just generic in the

34:17space of or writ large, not site specific, that's I think what Mayor Guthrie was getting at. And

34:23we would have to offer some additional commentary in that regard. Okay, thank you so much,

34:29Councillor Caitlin. So for comments, I have Councillor Caitlin and Councillor Allt.

34:35Thank you. Through you, Mr. Mayor, I really liked the idea of this lobby in the registry,

34:41the registry of the lobbyists, because I think that transparency is very important.

34:46As I think it's an opportunity to potentially streamline administration of meeting requests

34:51via technology, like perhaps some sort of doodle poll or similar, because often we have

34:58developers who have things before the OLT and it would be nice to have

35:03extra steps in between the process of meeting requests and meetings to know

35:08any of the flags that are going to occur in that meeting. Also, I liked Councillor Goller's idea

35:14of vote tracking, but it feels more like an accessibility systems feature to me,

35:20which is separate than a registry for a lobbyist. But I also see a value in pairing those initiatives

35:25for full transparency in the future. Thank you. Thank you. Councillor Allt, please.

35:31Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. Just concluding comments. I really do urge Council to pass this

35:37recommendation or report unanimously. I want to be very, very clear that I think that we need to

35:44be careful not to conflate the issue of strong mayors with the need for a lobbyist registry.

35:51The lobbyist registry, according to the Canadian Bar Association, covers not only mayors, but covers

35:57every member of Council and also officers and employees of the city. Anybody can be lobbied,

36:04and I'm sure that that has happened. In what the CBA has stated, they've identified Brampton as having

36:09a very comprehensive lobbyist registry. I don't know how great that is, but they very clearly

36:16identify they're a consultant lobbyist, in-house lobbyist, voluntary, unpaid lobbyist. There are

36:21certainly going to be people and individuals that will fall through the cracks. But remember that

36:27lobbyists can come in all shapes and sizes, and whether they are members of the water watchers

36:32concerned about our water table or their perhaps billion-dollar-a-year developers, they might have

36:37a purpose in what they are doing that is somewhat pecuniary. While this might be a big net and while

36:46it might cause problems for some of the small fish, metaphorically speaking, I think the issue of

36:52transparency is absolutely essential. And as wealth is growing very, very quickly and is no longer

36:58cosmopolitan countryside, but is more part of the greater Toronto area, we need to be very clear

37:05that there are many people that have sights on what we are doing here. Go ahead, Councillor O'Rourke.

37:13Thanks, Mayor Guthrie, through you to you. I think it's also important to be sure that a lobbyist

37:21registry or government relations tracking doesn't put a chill on communication with government.

37:27In fact, it's healthy for people to be able to speak with staff or to find out more or to advocate

37:33on a position. All this does is it allows some more transparency into what happens outside of this

37:40chamber. But government relations or lobbying is just a form of communication where we are a public.

37:47So I want to continue to encourage people, right, that if they have advocacy on a piece of legislation

37:54or a policy issue that we're contemplating, that it remains important for them to come forward

38:00with their concerns, with improvements on bylaws, with positions on the city,

38:04because that's the mix of democracy. But you want to encourage, we're just trying to add

38:09additional transparency. Councillor Chew. Through you, Mr. Mayor. Like I agree with everybody here.

38:20I think transparency is great if that's the design of this. But I do have a concern of this being a

38:27barrier to people who want to reach us. We're here also to demystify how City Hall works for people.

38:34I just want to be conscious of that. And this is all new to me as well. So I think maybe just a

38:40suggestion. Perhaps if clarity and take away a quick scan for the July report of

38:46comparative municipalities and just the rationale for why they put forward a lobby registry,

38:55that would be great as well, just from my own understanding. So I don't have to go through

38:59the legal bulletins and do that analysis on my own. Thank you. Okay. Great. Okay. I'll just have

39:10some concluding comments then and then I'll call the vote. So I just want to say the QR code idea

39:18that you had, so the tools that we could maybe be using. That's great. That's the first time I kind

39:22of heard that. So my gut reaction is something like that would be fantastic. It's easy and just

39:28can be done instantly in the moment. That's really good. But as much as there's tools on our end,

39:33I would just, I would encourage you and staff, I'm kind of maybe channeling Councillor Billings a

39:39little bit here, but that if there is now, you promised you to do some engagement with those

39:43that might be, I would say frequent fliers that might have to use this system. So whatever the

39:49tools are that they would need to be using, I think it's important that you get feedback through

39:54that engagement process with them about how this could be implemented. I'm really, we keep hearing

40:03the word transparency and that's the whole reason for this. So dido to that. I don't need to say

40:08anything more. And I appreciated the fact that you recognized through many of my colleagues already

40:14raising it, the rationale for like a memo or inclusion of other nonprofits and other entities

40:20that can be put in. So I feel like there's a lot of, yeah, there's a lot of heads nodding here

40:27about the inclusion of that. So that's where I was going to go and but everyone beat me to it. So

40:32we're good on that. So dido on that. And then my final comment is, and it's going to pick up a

40:37little bit on what Councillor Oroch just said, is it is important that those, this can be used as a

40:44political hammer. 100% this could be used. We cannot demonize people for doing their job or for

40:52having the passion about whatever the issue is that they want to engage with us on. Okay. We've

41:00not had any issues. I don't expect there to be any issues from any of my colleagues here or myself.

41:07But you know, this, this is going to be good to raise the bar to elevate the transparency. That's

41:12fine. But please know demonizing people for just doing what they are doing, passionate about whatever

41:19subject they want to talk to us about. That is, we should all collectively call it out to because

41:26that's that's not right either. Part of democracy is making it easy to speak to easy for free flow

41:34of opinions on issues. So we want to encourage that. We want to continue to encourage that even

41:41though there might be a 32nd form that someone has to fill out in the moment. So with that,

41:48you know, this was unanimous months ago when we originally asked for this to come back. I have a

41:55feeling and hopefully that this will be unanimous vote to move forward, which sends a signal as well,

41:59by the way. And council knows that I've been in favor of this for quite some time anyway. So

42:04this is good that we're moving forward. So with that, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against?

42:10Nobody unanimous. Good job. Okay.

42:15We will now move to the municipal accommodation tax update and administration policy.

42:23And there's going to be a presentation

42:24from two people, I believe. I'm going to put my glasses on so I can see. So we got Hillary

42:35McCann from the Guelph Chamber of Commerce, Alex Duraski, our manager of tourism and

42:40destination development. James, our manager of ECDEV is also here as well. But I will turn it

42:48over to you to give us a quick overview of this municipal accommodation tax update.

43:03Okay. Well, good morning, Mr. Mayor, council, staff and members of the public. We're happy to

43:08be here this morning to share with you. Kind of give you fighting update on the first year or so

43:14of the collection of the municipal accommodation tax, as well as propose to you a municipal

43:21accommodation tax administration policy and financial programs to go along with that. And

43:27the intent is really to guide our work and our contributions to advancing the Guelph Future

43:33Strategic Plan. So, well, oh, slide. Well, it's my first time up here. So that's never seen a

43:48controller like that before. But thank you, Colleen. So we'll call it MAT for short because

43:54everybody likes an acronym in government. So the city's been collecting the MAT for just over a year

43:59and between September 2022 and December 2023, we've collected just over a total of $1.2 million

44:07in revenue. That's been split with the Guelph Chamber of Commerce and utilized by destination

44:13marketing Guelph to achieve our shared objectives. So as outlined in the economic development and

44:20tourism strategy, we came forward with the recommendation to PATS past the MAT some time ago

44:25in order to support investment in tourism and destination development. And over the past year,

44:31staff's also drawn on our economic development and tourism strategy, as well as some work that

44:36was done in 2015 and 2016 with destination Guelph to develop the administration policy and financial

44:43assistance programs that you'll see today and are attached as attachment one to the staff report.

44:50So the core tenant of the policy is the establishment of a centralized approach to

44:55supporting tourism operators. And that's with the city as well as with the Guelph Chamber of Commerce.

45:02And we wanted to ensure, and you'll see this as we go through the subsequent slides,

45:07that when it comes to supporting tourism businesses and not for profits, we have a no wrong door

45:12approach and a no wrong door approach and relationship with the Chamber of Commerce.

45:19So and I believe that that's really what makes our program that we're proposing unique in Ontario.

45:29So the administration policy is a framework that with your approval today will make it easier to

45:35get to yes when businesses and community groups come forward with good ideas to enhance visitor

45:40attraction. And with that I'll turn it over to Alex Dwarisky, our manager of tourism and

45:46destination development to expand on the relationship and walk you through what we've been up to the

45:50past year. Thanks James. So over the past year an important focus of our work has been setting up a

46:01new era for tourism and Guelph, where the city has acted as the destination marketing and management

46:06organization for over 20 years. With the implementation of the municipal accommodation tax,

46:11we brought a partnership online with the Guelph Chamber of Commerce to create a function for

46:16destination marketing, which is now called destination marketing Guelph. While both of our

46:21divisions will contribute in partnership to building a must-see visitor destination in Ontario,

46:26we will do this through three primary portfolios of work. The city's tourism and destination

46:31development division will largely take on the tasks associated with destination management,

46:36which is our visitor information and group servicing offerings, while also leading

46:40destination development. Destination development involves product development with tourism operators,

46:46training and network development that connects our operators, and working on visitor-oriented

46:50strategies to advance our appeal to those from outside of Guelph. Of course, destination marketing

46:56will be the lead on destination, sorry, destination marketing will be led by destination marketing

47:02Guelph, but there is some overlap in the destination development portfolio. This is where the Noverong

47:08Door approach comes in. A good idea for making Guelph more inviting to visitors or an event that

47:13will bring in significant overnight stays will need support from both of our areas for long-term

47:18success. So let's take a look at some of the things tourism and destination development has been up to

47:23over the last year to contribute to these three portfolios of work. One of our main areas of focus

47:29has been in network development and reconnecting with tourism operators through the Economic

47:33Recovery Post-Pandemic. This has involved our first-ever workshop series that has now turned

47:38into annual programming, as well as the tourism roundtable November 2023. These activities have

47:43been focused on supporting our industry, but also on covering where they need more support in order

47:48to flourish. In our group servicing portfolio, we've been working on quite a few new initiatives.

47:53So last year, we launched the Explore Guelph Pass pilot program, which gives out-of-town guests

47:58attending conferences and events, discounts at local restaurants and experiences, while also

48:03driving these guests towards locally owned options. This year, we'll see our events and

48:08meetings pitch package come online to help tell the story of Guelph to those planning larger

48:13gatherings like conferences and meetings as an investment attraction strategy in the tourism

48:18portfolio. Another program that recently launched and we're excited to see grow is the Accessible

48:23Events program, which provides tourism operators with up to three rentable sensory kits from

48:28Autism Canada that can be shared with their attendees to make events more friendly for kids

48:32with sensitivities. Although we're transitioning away from destination marketing activities,

48:372023 was the start-up year for destination marketing Guelph, so tourism staff engaged in

48:42marketing opportunities and influencer campaigns to ensure we're still telling the Guelph story to

48:46visitors as we've undertaken some important work. When it comes to destination development, last

48:51year we focused on passing a permanent seasonal patio program, which we'll see animating our

48:55downtown streets again come May. And we'll be starting work on our wayfinding strategy in the

49:00next few months to update existing signage and establish a strong interface between digital and

49:05physical navigation assets that help not only visitors but newcomers and non-residents to find

49:10their way around. Now I'm going to hand it over to Hilary McCann, the Executive Director of

49:15Destination Marketing Guelph at the Chamber of Commerce, to share with you what the last year

49:18has looked like on their side of things and what you can expect to see in the years to come.

49:29Thank you, Alex. Since January 2023, I've been working with the City's Tourism and Destination

49:34Development Team to bring a new brand to life. But first, we started with an update to the data

49:40and information we had about Guelph's visitor economy and the perceptions of Guelph as a destination.

49:47Through our visitor survey last spring, we ascertain that seven out of ten people who come

49:54to Guelph come to see friends or family. To that end, we need to be certain our community is informed

50:00as well as we simultaneously and creatively attract new visitors to our city. We were intent

50:05on keeping community engagement top of mind, so in addition to conducting the much-needed visitor

50:11survey, we decided that getting the opinion of business leaders and community members was paramount

50:16in order to get a read on where our community sees gaps, room for improvement, and how they would

50:21like to engage in promotional and marketing activities going forward. Excuse me. This first

50:28step provided insight into overall challenges and what stakeholders would like to see in terms of one

50:33central entity that not only attracts visitors but also to have one central repository that our

50:38community helps to inform. Some of the facts discovered were, as mentioned, we know the

50:44large share of visitors come here to see friends and family, which we call a VRF demographic.

50:50We know that they're mostly from the greater Toronto area, but this is diversifying.

50:55More people are coming from southern and eastern Ontario, and they're getting younger,

51:00with the largest age demographic between 18 and 34, and they're primarily couples or family

51:06looking for things to do together, and they love Guelph for the vibe, which is something that we

51:11heard often even from those who live here. They recognize Guelph as a great location for local

51:16and regional exploration. They identify our historic downtown as having a charming European feel,

51:23and they are fans of our foodie and festival experiences, but our visitors and stakeholders

51:28want things. They want flexible planning with itinerary generating tools. They want these itineraries

51:34to be experiential, authentic, meaningful, and provide a sense of accomplishment, and they also

51:41want sustainable and accessible options for travel. So this is where we focused as we moved into 2024

51:47and with the launch of our new visitor brand. Encapsulating and illustrating one central brand

51:55that spoke to visitors and community at large proved challenging. Stakeholder engagement was key

52:00to providing varied perspectives and distilling the essence of Guelph into something that was

52:05visually appealing, as well as functional. We also wanted to be sure we built a brand that

52:10could tell a story, something that was vibrant and versatile, but could also spark a narrative

52:16and form the messaging we base all our stories on. The development of the new visitor-oriented brand

52:22started with the industry's best practices, and we asked the people of Guelph why they love it.

52:28So much of what came to the forefront is that we have everything here, nature within the city,

52:33life with a great food and beverage scene, coupled with strong cultural and arts experiences.

52:40But what really rose to the surface through our engagement, our stakeholder surveys and our place

52:44branding workshops, is the sense of community. In one of these sessions we heard the phrase

52:49gather together. Guelphites love to gather together, and that was the spark that started us. Our new

52:55call to action was born, turning feeling into form. Guelph gather here. Many of you seen the logo

53:02out there as we incrementally soft launch, and we invited the community to share their experiences

53:07so that we can amplify our community's story. And we will continue to engage and inform the

53:13community as often as possible and drive not only visitors to our website and social media channels,

53:19but ensure the community knows that they can turn to us for relevant and timely information.

53:26So as mentioned, we will be launching our website and social media channels with content from our

53:30community members, and this will be an ever-evolving strategy where we hope to lean on and learn from

53:36Guelph citizens as we move forward. We also have and will continue to form partnerships that function

53:41not only to entice visitors to Guelph and inform our own community, but build the relationships we

53:47need to grow. Our sponsorships and funding streams will help support the growth of events and

53:52initiatives that are not only a visitor draw, but we also want to form partnerships that allow us to

53:57package and incentivize and harness and promote the power of one-stop planning. These partnerships

54:04with our local businesses and community organizations are the key to ensuring we are working together

54:09and not just an echo chamber. Our new website will have itinerary building options, updated maps

54:15and business listings, and incentivized bundled packages that include partnerships with accommodations,

54:20the accommodation sector to drive overnight stays. We're launching with our community of tourism

54:26operators, and we're also going to be running a workshop with network toolkits and training on how

54:31to use and engage with the brand to create more coverage and invite more people to gathering Guelph.

54:37We're also building out the destination marketing strategy, including a PR campaign and exploring

54:43options for both paid and earned media and how to leverage the map funding for smart destination

54:48marketing investments that suit the style and needs of the demographics we're trying to target.

54:53And we're going to measure these things so we can report back and adjust for successes. We will be

54:59monitoring overnight stays with the city, but we'll also be measuring the success of packages and

55:04offerings and how many people opt in. And we'll also use digital and print key performance indicators

55:09to measure the success of campaigns and continue to invest or pivot in these ways. So stay tuned

55:15over the next few weeks more information and the official launch of gathering Guelph.com will happen

55:21and now I'll hand it back over to Alex and she'll give you talk more about how we're going to work

55:25together continue to build our opportunities for the tourism sector next year. Thank you,

55:34Hillary. So now we're returning to the administration policy and the funding streams that we spoke

55:40about earlier. So this policy is meant to be a framework that guides investment primarily in

55:45destination development. We're looking at investments in infrastructure like wayfinding,

55:49placemaking and activating to make Guelph an even more inviting place to gather. We're looking to

55:54invest in learning with our network by continuing to run programming that is educational and builds

55:59capacity with the tourism industry to create new opportunities and experiences that we can

56:04amplify to new audiences. And we're looking to invest in our community and those new ideas

56:10with funding programs that incent product development and event attraction. But this policy is also a

56:15framework for business development. We're focusing on a customer service approach for the tourism

56:20network and establishing partnerships with both for profit and not for profit organizations,

56:25which is why destination marketing Guelph and tourism and destination development will be jointly

56:30presenting the funding streams. We're setting clear objectives, outcomes and expectations to

56:35ensure we're investing in ideas with demonstrated visitor appeal and potential for attracting

56:40more overnight stays. And we're laying a framework for consistent reporting that will help us measure

56:45the investment staff make so that we can share and celebrate success with the industry at council

56:50and through good news stories. So the funding programs, the primary objective of these funding

56:57programs are shared, but the outcomes and outputs will differ depending on the stream. So we are

57:02focused on attracting visitors for overnight extended stays at local accommodations, which is

57:07the key objective of the municipal accommodation tax. We're also looking for strong collaboration

57:12among local and regional partners while advancing downtown attraction efforts, especially as we

57:17look towards downtown renewal. Well, we're also hoping to see more sport event offerings with

57:22the city and of course looking to see what efforts are being made to promote inclusion,

57:27diversity, equity and accessibility in the tourism sector and how we can support this work.

57:33Staff have put together three funding streams, the administration policy,

57:36to support these primary objectives. The destination animation fund, which will provide

57:40direct investment in local tourism operators to enhance or expand on their experiences that

57:46appeal to visitors with up to $5,000 per project proposal. The gather here sponsorship fund that

57:52will provide up to $25,000 for larger out of town events that have demonstrated overnight stays,

57:57economic impact or advertising opportunities to help entice event planners to pick wealth.

58:03And the destination gaps and needs fund, which will be more flexible funding program designed

58:07to meet changing needs in golf's visitor services and experiences identified by our industry.

58:13Here funding will not be directed directly transferred to organizations,

58:17rather tourism staff will engage services or invest in smaller visitor infrastructure projects

58:22to meet these needs collaboratively with the tourism industry. So the municipal

58:28accommodation tax administration policy was developed to grow the visitor economy.

58:32So by investing in visitor friendly assets, incenting product development and promoting

58:36partnerships, we're hoping to see the new brand grow and flourish. As the brand grows,

58:43so does the opportunity for sharing and telling the story of wealth with the people who live and

58:47work here. And as the story grows, so do the people who hear it, which hopefully means welcoming new

58:52visitors, which which starts our cycle over again. So with council approval of the administration

59:00policy, we plan to launch the funding streams in the second quarter of 2024 for projects and events

59:06that occur in 2024. And then a second round in the fourth quarter 2025 projects to give operators

59:13more time to plan going forward. We'll see the official wealth gather here launch over spring

59:192024. And you'll hear about how the work around destination development continues to progress

59:24through annual funding information reports, the city wide way finding strategy report in 2025,

59:29and work on a place making strategy and pilot project in 2025. Thank you.

59:38Great. Thank you so much. This is great. All the work that's gone into it. And I know we have a

59:44couple delegates that want to that want to come up. How are you guys? Good to see you.

59:50We have both Helen and Mike here from the Good Games. And I think we all know

59:58know that group anyways. So thank you very much for for being here. You have up to five minutes.

1:00:04And there you'll hear a chime at the four minute 30 second mark as like a warning chime

1:00:08that you got 30 seconds left. And then just stick around just in case there's a follow up

1:00:13question. Okay, I'll turn it over to you. Go right ahead. Thank you. Great. Thanks, everybody. I'm

1:00:18Helen Stumbos. I'm a guelphite born and raised. I'm also Canadian soccer Hall of Fame athlete.

1:00:22I came through the golf soccer system. The good games were created after I was made aware of a

1:00:26consultation that was in 2016. The results and conclusion and one of the suggestions for golf to

1:00:32grow tourism was to bring a sports event to golf, something to attract visitors. Guelph wasn't

1:00:37considered a destination city and there needed to be a reason for people to come here. I decided to

1:00:41take this on. Instead of bringing an event here, I decided to create an event. I was heavily involved

1:00:46in sport and I just attended a large multi sport games in Vancouver in 2016. And in a nutshell,

1:00:51that's how the good games were born. Initially, I called them the guelph games, but we changed the

1:00:55name in 2022 for a few reasons. There are two parts to the good games. There's a multi sport

1:01:00competition for adults plus a massive festival of sport open to everyone. Think the Calgary

1:01:05Stampede, but for sport. The festival is free to attend. No barriers to entry. That was something

1:01:10that was a must for this event. Our motto is sport for life, sport for all. The games have grown to

1:01:15now become the biggest annual multi sport games in Canada with the massive sports festival to go

1:01:19with it. We were set to launch in 2020. We actually had athletes coming from as far as Japan and

1:01:24Portugal and COVID had other plans. So we launched a modified event in 2022 with 300 athletes,

1:01:30600 athletes last year and this year expecting 1500 athletes. The majority of our athletes this year

1:01:36have come from beyond 40 kilometers, but this year we kind of blown up with many of our athletes

1:01:40coming from across the United States. Half of our current registered 500 plus athletes are coming

1:01:44from as far as Hawaii to California to New York and everything in between. We've created a bit of

1:01:49a media stir because we have a women's soccer competition where over 65 and over 70 year olds

1:01:53are coming to compete. We even have 80 year olds coming from San Diego, California. We've also

1:01:59got a partnership with the indigenous sport and wellness council of Ontario who we in onsite running

1:02:03a number of cultural and sports activations as well as an archery competition. Many of our athletes,

1:02:0860% that we've surveyed this year have let us know they're traveling with family and friends

1:02:12and planning to extend their stay to explore the area. I haven't even touched on the festival

1:02:16and their attendees there. We're expecting 15,000 plus attendees from across Ontario. The economic

1:02:21impact of an event like ours will bring hundreds of thousands of dollars into the city and millions

1:02:26as we grow. Mike Jean from the Good Games. Events like these bring massive economic benefit to the

1:02:31city. This is why one of the largest sponsors or partners to these types of events are the

1:02:35host city itself. From the beginning and especially due to the recommendations from the earlier

1:02:39marketing report, we had always assumed that the city would be a partner so much so that in 2019

1:02:44Stacy Dunnigan and Dana Keller two representatives from city tourism were part of our advisory

1:02:47council. Today we have no one from the city on our team. Over the years we've grown alone watching

1:02:52any support dwindle and come to almost a complete halt. As far back as 2019 2020 we were told of a

1:02:58new tax that was coming and this is the pool from which we would be supported. With a reported $1.2

1:03:02million collected so far we've been told and I quote we shouldn't expect much. Our question is

1:03:07simple. What does an organization like ours who have successfully and continue to bring people from

1:03:11Hawaii, Alaska, California, Poland, Arizona, Florida, Washington, Oregon, New Mexico, not to mention Ottawa,

1:03:18Timmins, Montreal, Saskatchewan and Winnipeg of which most extend their stays have to do to qualify

1:03:23to receive help. Investment and support from tourism and especially this tax. If $1.2 million has been

1:03:29collected and we still shouldn't quote unquote expect much what is the tax being used for and how

1:03:33needed to be collected before an event like ours gets help especially after proving ourselves

1:03:38with capacity to achieve the goals recommended in the earlier report. To date there has been very

1:03:43till little support from both financially and from an infrastructure perspective. It would be

1:03:48great to have support beyond even the funds perhaps running an activation or helping with the

1:03:53festival. The new head of tourism of economic development James didn't even know we existed

1:03:57when I reached out to him in February of this year. How was he not briefed on our event? It's

1:04:02been going on since 2019. Events like these don't build themselves. They require a massive amount

1:04:07of investment in time, energy and capital. Events like ours are usually some sort of coordinated

1:04:12effort with the city they exist in with city staff, tourism staff and the organizer of the event

1:04:17working together. So far to date everything the entire event has been with responsibility

1:04:24of very small group of wealth citizens. We're a small group of volunteers. We're doing all the

1:04:29grunt work to bring a massive tourist event and in turn benefits the city. All the onus is on us

1:04:34and to be honest with you it's really not fair and it's it's not right. I have no idea what we

1:04:39need to do to have anyone from the city's perspective care enough to want to help us because we've

1:04:43tried and let me tell you I think they're really sick of hearing from me. I even wonder why are we

1:04:48working so darn hard and I'm personally investing my own finances to continue to bring such a valuable

1:04:53entity to a city that seems as if they don't really want it. If anyone wants to know a little bit

1:04:57more about it Dominique O'Rourke was a volunteer at our event last year. We need more volunteers.

1:05:03We need more support. We need the entire city to get behind us and to share our event and yes of

1:05:07course we need financial support as well. Anybody wants to talk to us we're always open to talking

1:05:12beyond this meeting. Thanks for having us. Great thank you and let me just see if there's a follow-up

1:05:17question. Councillor I think Gibson and then Gowler okay. Thank you through you Mayor Guthrie.

1:05:26Thanks for your presentation. Great to catch up with you and hear about your event and the

1:05:30successes that you're having. One question that I'm going to ask staff and I'll ask it to you first

1:05:35is the the Gather Here sponsorship program which has been established. It looks like it's for major

1:05:41case major large-scale events. It seems to be at this point it sounds like and I'm going to clarify

1:05:46with staff that it may be tied to overnight hotel room stays. Your event is attracting people from

1:05:52again I just want to make sure we're attracted from North America wide so you are drying hotel

1:05:56stays you are drying driving economic activity. We've already sold two blocks at the Delta and

1:06:02University is getting pretty busy as well. Great I'll tease that apart with staff but I appreciate

1:06:06your answer thank you. Thank you and Gowler and then Alt. Thank you through your worship.

1:06:15Thank you for the presentation. Just wanted to understand the the good games. Are you a

1:06:19non-profit organization at Charity? We have both now. We were a corporation

1:06:23but we established an offer profit as well. In 2019 when we did have some support from the

1:06:27city we were a corporation. They were set to support us. They were set to run activations. They were

1:06:32running a big downtown dance party for us because the festival was going to be on Cardin Street

1:06:36and then of course COVID kind of hit but we did establish an offer profit this past year as well.

1:06:41Okay thank you for that. Appreciate it. Thank you worship. No problem and Alt and then I work.

1:06:48Thank you very much Mayor Guthrie through you to the the delegates with due respect.

1:06:56I'm sensing some bruised feelings from some of what you said with regards to well we want you to

1:07:04value us is basically what you said and this comes into the notion that you also said that

1:07:11Guelph is not considered an event city which I think runs contradictory to what we heard

1:07:16just previously. So I'm wondering about that about both the bruised feelings and that you are

1:07:23creating the event that will make Guelph an event city. Could you comment on that please? Sure I

1:07:30think that just Helen just before you go on that definitely I'll turn it over to you. I just want

1:07:34to caution everyone that you know I want to make sure that especially if you answer as well if

1:07:39there's anything in regards to any of the integrity of our staff I don't want to have any of that being

1:07:45called into question here. We can have those discussions outside of this realm

1:07:49but I just want to make sure that we're just we're just honoring and being respectful to

1:07:53everyone in the room as we continue to have your answer okay. And just to point a privilege I know

1:07:58that's not my intention I just want to know I know that I wasn't really stopping it for you I just

1:08:02want to make sure stopping it for anyone else that might ask further questions that as the answers

1:08:07come forward that we're respecting our staff both old and new that have come to to be at this

1:08:14at this moment okay so please answer the question. Yes you're no problem. I'll make it very personal

1:08:19I'll make it to me. Yes it has been a little bit frustrating because this was originally created

1:08:24because I was actually contacted by somebody that Kithio actually contacted me when the this

1:08:30destination marketing report came out and he said we need to bring a sporting event to Guelph.

1:08:34I've been in sport my entire lives I produce massive events I've been part of the sporting

1:08:38world and so I started to kind of go down that route to figure out what to do. This was kind of

1:08:42together kind of figuring out how we could bring something here and I did my due diligence I

1:08:47may have had lots of meetings I talked to a lot of people. I was in Vancouver like I mentioned at

1:08:51the America's Masters Games and one of the organizers is a friend of mine and so we started talking

1:08:56and so we brought this event to the table which was very excited everybody was super excited

1:09:00about it like Mike mentioned Stacey Denneken and Dana Keller were on our team we were working at

1:09:05kind of creating this amazing event and then just something dropped off after COVID and I know things

1:09:10happen after COVID and things change but it's been really challenging for us to get any support

1:09:14it's been challenging to have anybody help us in any capacity like I said our whole team is

1:09:21volunteer we've been kind of working 24 hours seven days a week to put this on and to really

1:09:27create an event for Guelph I mean at the end of the day I don't need to do this I really don't

1:09:32I'm doing this because I love this city and I created this because I love this city I've been

1:09:35born and raised here and I wanted to make Guelph proud and it makes it is frustrating when you

1:09:40don't feel like the city you're creating it for is behind it or wants it. Thank you just to let you

1:09:46know I'll probably ask staff the same kind of question in a different context the other question

1:09:51I will probably ask this is just for your information is on one of the motions that we have we are

1:09:55assigning authority to one of our staff and I want to hear how our staff will actually determine

1:10:02which groups do and do not receive funding and at what levels that's just an important point that

1:10:07I think is is possibly being missed in in this. Great thank you and just don't go away because

1:10:14a RORC and then and then Colosson and Downer okay and then Boosentill looks like we're going around

1:10:20the room here. Thanks for that. Go ahead a RORC. Through you to our delegates and I do want to

1:10:25try and stay on the municipal accommodation tax but what I'm I'm thinking about is sort of the

1:10:32potential for the game so I will say first congratulations because you tried to reinvent

1:10:36yourself lots of times through COVID and held very local things and outdoor activities and

1:10:41fun stuff with tech but I'm wondering if you would tell council a little bit what the model is

1:10:48and and what the growth potential is for master's sport because we've had you know the

1:10:56North American Pickleball tournament there's a big curling event coming but but I believe

1:11:00yours is modeled on the Huntsman Games and if you could just tell us a bit about like what the

1:11:05growth expectation is. Sure so when we started talking about this we actually knew there was

1:11:11an event in Utah called the Huntsman Games and so that's kind of who we're modeling it after.

1:11:15I've been down with my team, Stu Lang has gone down with his team to kind of talk to their

1:11:19executive and we all came back with kind of the same report and they've been very great at kind of

1:11:23sharing how they grew the sport. They started their event with 280 athletes and they get 11 to

1:11:2812,000 a year. That's how big it's grown and the way we're going we've already gone from 300 athletes

1:11:34to close to 1500 athletes in three years that's just unheard of. There's such an appetite for

1:11:39events like this there's not a lot for adults. This market is a very desirable market from an

1:11:44economic perspective. They like to travel, they like to spend money, they like to bring their

1:11:47families and there aren't very there's not a lot of events for athletes in this category

1:11:53so we've kind of cornered that market. There's actually nothing like this in North America.

1:11:56I think we can continue to grow to be this similar to the Huntsman Games but we're in over 20 games,

1:12:01we were over 30 before but we're now we're over 20. The Huntsman Games are only over 55

1:12:05and they're getting 11 to 12,000 athletes a year and I know speaking to the athletes because we have

1:12:09some coming to our games this year they say this is on their calendar every year. They know they're

1:12:13coming here every year. One of the things that I think makes our event very unique to any other

1:12:17events and I've spoken to people that have been to many multi-sport games around the world.

1:12:21One of my friends was here last year and she's been to Australia and she was in Italy for the

1:12:25Masters Games is how everything was very localized and I think that's one of the very

1:12:30unique aspects of what we bring to the table and every time I've spoken to athletes they've never

1:12:34been to a game where when I was in Vancouver I drove an hour to go from soccer to beach volleyball

1:12:39whereas here you're basically at one venue you can pretty much walk to everything and even if we

1:12:43use remote facilities we're using a basketball facility remotely this year it's not a far drive

1:12:48and it's easy to get into the University of Guelph and there's lots of parking so I said to my

1:12:53friend how do we make this you know better than those Masters games and she turned to me and she

1:12:56said this already is better than those Masters games so I already know kind of where we stand

1:13:01based on what other events are out there and I already know just seeing the appetite uptake in

1:13:07three years the growth is insane and the only limitation we have right now is support that's

1:13:12the only thing kind of holding us back from going even bigger and better. Let me also add

1:13:17another part of our games is you know creating championships creating

1:13:25activations where people want to come so we're partnering with the soccer freestyle association

1:13:29to host the Canadian freestyle championships at our games you know we're partnering with other

1:13:35entities such as the Ontario Masters to host their their events at our games and use our games as

1:13:41the backdrop use the festival of our games as a backdrop it's something that's kind of happened

1:13:44a little bit organically and but now as part of our model and you know we're talking with a tech

1:13:50ball and one of the fastest growing sports second fastest growing sport in the world next to cricket

1:13:55at holding their championships at our games so we are we are growing and we are trying to find

1:14:00unique ways to again increase activity increase the amount of people that come to the games

1:14:05and also increase the the the from where people are coming from yeah yeah I'm going to expand on

1:14:11that a little bit something that you know we we focus on the athletes so much but one thing we

1:14:14really realized last year when we held our festival was people were traveling here to the festival

1:14:19and when we realized that we kind of said oh the festival is kind of an animal that's owned so we

1:14:24started to develop that festival knowing that thinking about this Calgary stampede and being like

1:14:28wait not everybody's a rodeo athlete they people are just going there to travel to go to the festival

1:14:33and and when we were sitting at the festival and people were coming up to me and were like oh my

1:14:37god you have Olympians here you have pros here you have this happening here and they were calling

1:14:41their friends from out of town to get here to come see it and that really rang a doorbell like a

1:14:45that was a doorbell for us going hey that's something we need to start taking advantage of

1:14:50we really started to look at what other events we could bring to our festival that will attract the

1:14:55bigger crowd because for example 1500 athletes is great but 15 000 attendees to the festival is even

1:15:00better and so that's one area we've started to grow where we now have a crossfit competition

1:15:04that's looking to bring their crossfit competition into our festival area like mentioned tech ball

1:15:08tech ball is the second fastest sport in the world it's the second watch most watch sport on social

1:15:14media it's insane and everybody has to look it up because it's absolutely crazy with the

1:15:17Canadian freestyle soccer championships coming to our event the pro pickleball league the CNPL

1:15:22that ran at the Sleven Centre they contacted us because they were like we want to be at your event

1:15:25the Ontario Masters Athletics Championship they want to rent their event at our event

1:15:29because they know we're putting on a really big party and a really big celebration so aside from

1:15:33growing the athletes which is where we originally started like Mike said organically we've started

1:15:37to see the festivals another area we can start to grow and that's an area where we can we can

1:15:42the capacity to grow that is faster and bigger so and that's why this year we know we're expecting

1:15:4815 000 plus attendees just to the festival great thanks okay just stick around uh Clausen down our

1:15:56busitil yes thank you through you marriage the delegates thank you for bringing wealth games to

1:16:03Guelph I'm a masters athlete myself and I know that the women that I play with are always grateful

1:16:08for the opportunities to play especially in our off season so I also would like to thank

1:16:14my colleague councillor O'Rourke for kind of keeping things on task about the mat tax so

1:16:20my questions will be tried I'll try to focus around those specifically so one is you mentioned

1:16:25Vancouver as potentially somewhere you attended and where you you know potentially thought we

1:16:30could bring that to Guelph do you know if they had support from their mat tax well they had support

1:16:36from city tourism and economic development yes okay yes okay big big chunk of support actually

1:16:40most events if you go to huntsman the huntsman games their massive sponsor is the city that they're in

1:16:45because the most economic benefit is the city that gets the games okay thank you and then the second

1:16:51piece of that is in the framework that was presented today and with some of the kind know that you

1:16:56know there has been some conversations with the city do you see some of those opportunities being

1:17:01something that you could apply for that you could take advantage of in the coming year and years to

1:17:08come I think for sure there's opportunities there and I think that's a great place to start

1:17:14as we mentioned through our conversation I mean we always saw this as a kind of a hand in hand

1:17:19together never as a just hey let give us the money and let's go no this was always like how do we

1:17:25sit in a room together and talk together and create this amazing event together and and when you

1:17:30hear frustrations because it literally has been at arm's length and and the brunt of the efforts

1:17:35and the works has been on our team so I hear those opportunities and they're great but at the end of

1:17:40the day an event like this has to be hand in hand with the an organization that city is part of like

1:17:46it's it's just has to be we're not a big city you know we're not a big vancouver or toronto I think

1:17:51we're nimble and more small this should be something that is literally holding each other's hands

1:17:57through the process yeah and and I think we'll also mention not to to name names or anything like that

1:18:02but when you sense the you know the hurt feelings if you will there were we we did have conversations

1:18:09with people who are not here who we felt were the adversarial and we never understood why

1:18:14the the relationship was like that we couldn't figure out what the problem was at first we

1:18:18thought maybe it was because we were a for-profit company at the time but we had to address those

1:18:23those things and it didn't seem that to be it we just thought that there was a little bit too much

1:18:26friction and we just couldn't understand why so that's where that came from okay appreciate that

1:18:33down northern boost still yeah so so I'm trying to so we haven't had this the municipal tax

1:18:41municipal accommodation tax before so you couldn't have applied for that so were there other

1:18:48grants that that we had that you applied for then um well in 2019 2020 we actually had support from

1:18:56the city in funding obviously that didn't happen because we didn't end up running the event so I

1:19:01don't know where those funds were coming from or how they were coming in 2022 when we ran the modified

1:19:05event with the Rotary Club for Canada Day there were some funds I don't know where they came from

1:19:09again I don't know if we were really given an idea of where those funds came from um there's also

1:19:15just different ways to support I think we you know we're looking to I know I've reached out to Linda

1:19:19about running a shuttle to underserved communities around Guelph to bring families to our festival

1:19:24so they can experience it if they can't get there in any other way but um I think there's a number

1:19:30of ways to to be involved and be supportive okay so you have had money in the past yeah we have it

1:19:36hasn't been through this no um there's opportunity in the future you understand that um and you think

1:19:43that it might have been a barrier because you were a for-profit operation in the corporation

1:19:46and not a non-profit operating we assume um we couldn't that was the only thing the only block um

1:19:53you know we're very courteous and professional in meetings and you know we just couldn't understand

1:19:56why we were getting a lot of uh what seemed like hostility from and and what kinds of funds how

1:20:01much were your fund requests uh gosh I don't even remember uh in 20 you know actually we I don't

1:20:07think you think we got to those numbers we were asking for you know you know for less yeah yeah

1:20:11we were asking for you know what can we do you know here's what we're trying to do what's available

1:20:15to us um is there something where you could invest in us you know there were talks from the city

1:20:22where you know maybe if we partnered with um the business center and Guelph and the dgba we could

1:20:27fill out a maybe a marketing plan or a business growth plan and then maybe the city could invest

1:20:32there were all sorts of um conversations so you were looking for somebody that more help you navigate

1:20:38facilitate connections that sounds like rather than funds is that what any and all of the above

1:20:44I think I think I think funding I mean you can't run an event like this without financial support

1:20:48it's just impossible um but you also can't run an event like this uh to this capacity and how big we

1:20:53are without the support of the city that it's behind it that's backing it so okay I think it's a

1:20:58combination of the two thank you one more uh busitil please being here um and thank you for

1:21:07making mention of that equity outreach because in your presentation a lot of my questions have been

1:21:13asked already but the one piece was in your presentation was that mention about the community

1:21:18benefit that community outreach um and you know the benefit that you provide to those young people

1:21:25and those families to dream bigger can you just talk about that because that's very intentional

1:21:30yeah uh so I'll just start by saying if anybody knows my story they'll know about how important

1:21:35sport has been in my life and I believe the transformative power sport is very important

1:21:41and valuable and so everything that we offer at our event um you know you think of music events and

1:21:46you go there to listen to music we come to our event we have tons of activities activations

1:21:51and everything's physical everything's active everything's about getting your body moving

1:21:55and it's free uh we we put up tons of different activities whether it's obstacle courses we run

1:22:00three legged races um we have learn to play pickleball learn to play road tennis learn to play

1:22:04rugby learn to play recross learn to play walking soccer um we have a riot acts coming to put in an

1:22:10activation uh you know we literally the whole festival is basically you can walk around and

1:22:15participate we call it come watch come play and come learn uh you can come watch events if you

1:22:20want some of the sporting events you come play because we have tons of activities for the whole

1:22:25family uh that's what was really important for us was to make that festival family friendly

1:22:30and to make activities there accessible to any and all so I think we've we've kind of accomplished

1:22:35that and then come learn with the partnership with the indigenous sport and wellness council I think

1:22:38come learn about their indigenous culture and their sport so um you know uh the sporting part and

1:22:44the family part and the inclusivity part it really is open to any and all um I think what we saw

1:22:50running the event in 2022 and 2023 I think the beautiful thing we noticed was you know you never

1:22:55know what the uptake is going to be like and if anybody's going to really enjoy anything um but

1:22:59we noticed everybody walking around enjoying themselves and nobody on their phones um so it

1:23:03was it's a very active event that's open and to everyone and like we said we didn't want uh money

1:23:09to be a barrier um so that was kind of something we we definitely were committed to was making this

1:23:14festival free to attend uh we didn't want families to have to have the expense of coming to pay for

1:23:1920 30 40 50 dollars to attend an event like ours we wanted them to be able to experience it to

1:23:25experience a transformative power of sport I think I was speaking to somebody from the

1:23:29children's foundation and they were saying when people go to them and are asking for help they

1:23:34offer them counseling or they offer them the opportunity to get involved in sport and they

1:23:37said 90 percent of people want to get involved in sport so I'm a big believer in the transformative

1:23:41power of sport and if we can give them that little taste maybe they try something out at our event

1:23:45and they they love it and that's what they want to do and that's what they want to explore a little

1:23:48bit more of um my personal story I had been involved in a lot of different things and I started

1:23:52kicking a ball around in my backyard and who knew that just kicking the ball around in my backyard

1:23:56would take me to the national team and playing in the world cup um it's those little inspirational

1:24:01moments and it happens in music it happens in culture uh it happens in sport and we're just

1:24:05offering that in the avenue of sport and it happens at the games we we've heard um from people and

1:24:10uh and we've transformed lives and they've kind of helped us transform the games based on some of

1:24:14their experiences yeah so we had one couple that showed up to our slow pitch tournament in 2022

1:24:20we're so inspired uh getting back involved in sport that they decided to get on a health kick

1:24:24and combine lost 200 pounds between the two of them so um you know it's uh it's we're there to

1:24:29just help and inspire as much as we can thank you okay I got two more questions uh counselor two

1:24:38and then uh back to alt and then I think we'll yeah so we're able to call it then okay go ahead

1:24:44counselor two thank you mr mayor I'll just make it very quick it seems like in the past

1:24:50the events have been localized at the university of guelph like I just have to ask the very obvious

1:24:54question like is there intention to expand uh beyond the university center sure so I'll I'll

1:25:00give you a backdrop on that in 2020 when we were launching it was actually a combination of the

1:25:05university of guelph with a big festival here on carton street we had already planned to close the

1:25:08street down where we were building a beach volleyball court on the street uh same was planned

1:25:12actually uh 2022 was our first kind of modified event 2023 we actually had sat here with tourism

1:25:18and discussed about bringing the actual festival downtown in fact we had already done the permits

1:25:22I had already done all the grunt work I'd already been on surveys we'd already basically I sat in

1:25:27the room in January 10th I won't forget and we said if we're going to do this we need to commit

1:25:31that there's going to be support and we can execute this because that's a big undertaking

1:25:35and literally two months before the event the rug was pulled up from under us and we were told

1:25:38there was absolutely no support for us um so we moved the we had to within that two months we had

1:25:42to literally make calls right away because we had lost all of our activation locations at the

1:25:47university of guelph and we had to backtrack and try to figure out how we actually make that come

1:25:53to life when we were kind of thrown a wrench at the very end so our plan was to always bring it

1:25:58downtown half of it the festival was always supposed to live downtown but we can't do that without

1:26:03support because as you can imagine the amount of infrastructure that's needed here the amount of

1:26:06security that's needed here it's beyond what we can afford at this point and we can't we can't

1:26:11execute that all right here and in terms of the huntsman games you know when you're bringing

1:26:1612 000 athletes a year the space just wouldn't be big enough so it would spill over into multiple

1:26:22locations yeah in and around the city yeah once we get to our goals like we said this year we've

1:26:26got norm jerry park which is basketball and we have an archery competition happening by the

1:26:30guelph lake so as these kind of sports grow we can't have everything at the university I'm

1:26:35looking at beach volleyball I mean I have to limit my beach volleyball teams right now because we

1:26:38have too many people signing up and I only have four four courts and one court we're building so

1:26:43that's going to all have spill off into the city and that's how it works at most games like this

1:26:47they do use remote facilities so the facilities as we grow will also grow thank you okay and

1:26:54councillor Allt do you have a quick follow-up there yes thank you and I thank you for the most part

1:26:58answered it my my main concern was the 15 000 athletes and that's a massive number that doesn't

1:27:05include families nor anybody that might be coming in just as spectators to an event so the real

1:27:11question becomes when the tokyo olympics only had 11 000 athletes how does a city like guelph

1:27:17manage something like that I might ask that to them but I recognize you're not here for for funds

1:27:22right now that that would be assigned to our staff but I'm still kind of curious about that sure I

1:27:27mean we are working with the university and we have the recommendations as well I think we have to

1:27:31at this point that there's just not enough hotel rooms in guelph if you actually look at the

1:27:35utah huntsman games they're in st george utah they're in a tiny town and they have the capacity

1:27:41for 11 or 12 000 athletes by using neighboring cities it's no different than I think the hockey

1:27:45tournament here that runs over December in December and first on the turf that runs with 200 teams

1:27:51I mean you just you have to outsource to different cities and different areas in order to make it

1:27:55work and hoping maybe as we grow to that number you would have the capacity with with rooms other

1:28:02than using the university but we're very lucky the university does have a lot of rooms and we are

1:28:06working hand in hand with them and offering accommodations through the university of guelph as

1:28:09well you okay with that councillor Allt yeah okay thank you very much everybody appreciate it to you

1:28:19both all right since I talked to you last councillor Allt would you be willing to move the recommendations

1:28:27all right councillor Klassen would you be willing okay second second of a councillor Klassen thank you

1:28:33okay so um I'd like us to please focus on the mat report please if we could that would be great

1:28:41and let's go with any questions to staff and the implementation of what the recommendations in the

1:28:47mat report actually are so gibson then alt thank you through mr. mayor to staff thanks for much

1:28:54for your presentation it was a good report I enjoyed it just seeing where the the mat tax was

1:29:00being directed I just have a few questions just in the again full transparency so it sounds like

1:29:07we've collected almost we'll be projecting to collect about a million dollars a year in the

1:29:10mat tax and we are reprogramming that money back into the community I just hope it for a simple

1:29:16breakdown in terms of I know that there is some bureaucracy and administration that comes along

1:29:21with the mat tax but like we when we ask for terrible organizations you know a million dollars

1:29:28received how much of that is being put back into the community in terms of these grants and program

1:29:33opportunities and how much is being consumed by new salaries and in bureaucracy through the mayor

1:29:44to councillor gibson so the let's say let's call it one million dollars per year so 50 percent remains

1:29:53with the city and 50 percent is directed to the chamber for destination marketing gulf through the

1:30:00multi-year budget process we've put forward a annual budget around that that kind of breaks down

1:30:08investments to the community to the community about 20 percent will be directed through these

1:30:13these grants and that sort of support when it comes to the in like the the place making the way

1:30:21finding those kinds of strategic investments in infrastructure investments you know that can range

1:30:27depending on the year depending on the strategy that we're working on as well you know maybe an

1:30:33additional 40 percent and then and then staffing staff would come in around around 20 percent as

1:30:43well and then we're also projecting to transfer that around a hundred thousand dollars a year into

1:30:50the reserve fund for future investments that we would come to council for so that's that remaining

1:30:56math I believe 20 percent off the top of my head that's that's pretty close to the math thing so

1:31:04okay 20 percent of the new tax is going forward staffing in bureaucracy I accept that that's

1:31:11some decision making that goes along with with the the collection of this tax the next question I had

1:31:17it was just a question but the presentation there was a number given seventy some percent of people

1:31:23who come to gulf come to visit family and friends now I understand that that turns into tourism

1:31:29but when we're collecting a math tax largely from accommodating people to gulf when you mentioned

1:31:36the seventy some percent of people that came to gulf to visit family friends is that translated

1:31:41into hotel stays like we're seeing that 70 percent of people who come to gulf are staying in a hotel

1:31:46to visit family and friends like where does the how does that get down in terms of the

1:31:52math collection I understand people come to gulf all the time we have family and friends come stay

1:31:55with us all the time but they're not they're not staying in hotel rooms so the math tax isn't really

1:32:01being they're not really paying into the math tax so how does that I guess what I'm getting at is

1:32:06what are the drivers to people to hotel rooms in gulf like what are the what are the drivers to

1:32:10people coming to gulf to stay in hotels through the marriage to councillor Gibson so the our yes we

1:32:20do have a high visiting friends and relatives demographic and and some of those folks are

1:32:26staying with friends and family and some of them are staying in overnight accommodations

1:32:30we don't have that exact breakdown at this time but what what we are hearing from our

1:32:37accommodation providers is business events larger scale events conferences those kinds

1:32:44those kinds of more business oriented or group travel purposes are what are our filling or are

1:32:53bringing folks to our hotels so although yes we are servicing that visiting friends and relatives

1:33:02demographic and of course the people who live here as a result are tour guides what we are also

1:33:09doing I mentioned the the pitch package the meetings and events pitch package that we're

1:33:13developing because we are also trying to grow the service offerings and and bring more of these

1:33:20larger events these conferences that boost overnight stays to the city as well to to bring

1:33:27them into our hotels okay yeah thank you I appreciate that I guess the the the concern I

1:33:36don't have I don't think I want to phrase it as a concern the the highlight I want to make though is

1:33:41in your report page seven of ten I really liked the destination animation program the gathering

1:33:46response to program destination gaps and needs funds like those are good examples of how the

1:33:50money is being reinvested in the community but for example the the gather here sponsorship program

1:33:55which caught my eye because I think of a lot of the youth sport tournaments that happen in town and

1:34:00that draw people in from you know all over Ontario to come stay in hotel rooms here

1:34:05I really saw that as a big driver and a good candidate for the sort of the $25,000 asks but

1:34:10it says here it's going to be evaluated on a case by case basis so I'm not really enjoying that

1:34:16sort of anonymity around how these decisions are going to get made but also it the one example

1:34:22you use was that you were going to connect it to hotel rooms so an example of successful application

1:34:27to this program would be a national tournament or conference with over 200 hotel rooms booked

1:34:31we're acknowledging that we're reporting on tourism to Guelph not attached to hotel rooms

1:34:38stays like the example of 70 percent of people who come to Guelph are not necessarily staying in

1:34:43hotels but that's the tourism that we're targeting but then in order to be eligible or gain sort of

1:34:50these $25,000 grants we're going to link your program that you're putting on to hotel room

1:34:55stays I'm just I'm struggling with that connection a little bit can you add some clarity or some sort

1:35:02of transparency on how those decisions are going to get made I wouldn't want I wouldn't want to find

1:35:07out that you know a program that is a non-traditional program is getting these $25,000 grants whereas

1:35:15these traditional programs that typically bring a lot of people to stay in hotels are not that's my

1:35:19concern through the mayor to councillor Gibson so that so the Gather Here sponsorship fund is up to

1:35:28$25,000 organizations receiving that level of funding would would would have to demonstrate those

1:35:37more significant overnight stays and that sort of thing but their $25,000 isn't the only dollar

1:35:43amount right and then when it comes to like the destination animation program that's where we're

1:35:48really trying to incent product development so that we are and my colleague Hillary here had

1:35:56indicated in the presentation that these experiences and the development of those experiences would

1:36:02be put into packages that would be tied to incentivization like staying at accommodations

1:36:12and we would be able to better measure how those experiences are translating into overnight stays

1:36:19but when it comes to like the Gather Here sponsorship fund those would be more of the events the

1:36:25tournaments you know those and the conferences I think that that you're referring more broadly to

1:36:31that would that would have to be able to demonstrate those as well. Okay thank you I do appreciate the

1:36:38thought of creating a milestone report so like what are your targets and how do they line up with

1:36:43the the funding I think that creates more transparency and just clear objectives the last

1:36:48question I have and I guess it's kind of dovetail a little bit of the conversation we had earlier

1:36:52but the lobbyist registry is who makes the decision on the the Gather Here sponsorship program is it

1:36:57within the city or is it at the chamber because I just again for my own personal interest like

1:37:04where does that decision get made I know that your report says sometimes this will come

1:37:08to council for council direction and approval which I think is great for for large programs but

1:37:15where is the decision making getting made for these for these grants? Through the mayor to

1:37:23Councillor Gibson so the applicants who are not for profits will be made for all of our streams

1:37:32will be made through a staff panel through the city and referred for our recommendation up through

1:37:40the delegated authority to the DCAO of Public Services based on a rubric with evaluation criteria

1:37:48that are outlined in the administration policy on the on the chamber side of things that's where the

1:37:55for-profit would would be directed using the same rubric and the same methods for evaluation

1:38:05and the the structure for approval would be up through their board of directors all of which

1:38:13would come through as an information report to to council yeah everybody receives funding would

1:38:21would be included in that information report to council. Okay thank you my last question it's a bit

1:38:27of a takeaway in future years with the MATACs you know considering how you've broken it down 20%

1:38:33goes through administration 20% may go to other forms of programming or destination marketing

1:38:39ad buys things like that can we see you may have answered in the report I may have missed it a more

1:38:45like a full detailed breakdown of where the money has been reinvested back in the community because

1:38:50I mean I would love to see next year three four five youth events in the cross the city that have

1:38:57received $25,000 grant funding to help it to help it move forward I would love to see that type of

1:39:04community uptake just for my own personal interest but also just to help the public

1:39:09understand where the funds are being reinvested to help to help with tourism is there an opportunity

1:39:14for that sort of breakdown to come back to council you may have answered in the report and I'm

1:39:18asked that I'm sorry. Through the mayor to councillor Gibson yes that will be the intention of our

1:39:25informational report around the funding streams of who received it and for let's call it what idea.

1:39:34Okay thank you and just to clarify it'll just be a simple information report it won't be a

1:39:37report it won't be an annual report on the mat tax through through this format.

1:39:47Through the mayor to councillor Gibson if if council were to direct us to bring forward a

1:39:52formal presentation we would be happy to do so. Okay I guess my quote if if staff were to ever come

1:39:58forward with a with a desire to increase the mat tax or decrease the mat tax that would probably come

1:40:04through council so we would see we would see that that sort of investment then. Through the mayor

1:40:10to council give councillor Gibson yes. Okay thanks very much for your time. Okay thank you.

1:40:20Who do I have on my list next I think it's Alt and then O'Rourke. Thank you mayor Guthrie through

1:40:27you to staff and I think one question is perhaps directly to DCAO CLAC but I want to start with

1:40:36the broader question there were comments made that Guelph is not really an event city and yet I'm

1:40:42looking at Hillside Jazz Festival Memorial Cup in the past the curling grand slam and possibly the

1:40:48Canadian chess championship as being events are there other events that we could identify as being

1:40:55Guelph events that do attract people from outside of the city and do lead to revenue growth within

1:41:02the community. Through the mayor to council are all the events are one of our our key drivers of

1:41:13visitors and over and perhaps for night stays as well where we're really looking forward to

1:41:18implementing these programs is for us to be able to collect reporting from these kinds of groups

1:41:26are our event operators and others where we'll be able to come back with you know strong data to

1:41:31support that statement but yes there there I would I would say that especially through the

1:41:37destination next work as well festivals and events were a key pillar of our of our work and

1:41:45will continue to be going forward. Thank you the next question I think is oh sorry I didn't see the

1:41:53microphone go. Sorry through the mayor to councillor Allt that's really the beauty of this tax now it's

1:42:00providing us with the opportunity to dedicate some funds towards event development and growth

1:42:05where obviously we don't lead the events we're not event people but this mat tax provides us with

1:42:11the opportunity to provide seed funding and some financial assistance towards that with the eye to

1:42:17grow our overnight stays and lengthen the the time amount of time people want to stay in our community.

1:42:25And just following up then I think it's probably back to you as well

1:42:29I was just recently at a conference where I noticed that there was a

1:42:33mat tax added on to my hotel room and I think it was approximately two percent of my hotel bill

1:42:40just for the public's sake what percentage are we looking at that would be added on to say a hotel

1:42:46bill for example. Sorry so when council passed the municipal accommodation tax it was set at four

1:42:56percent here for the city of Guam some municipalities choose to do less and some are recommending go up

1:43:02to six percent in some cases. Thank you but it is passed by by-law through council. Thanks the question

1:43:09for DCAO CLAC I was wondering if you could outline I believe it's to your responsibility that this

1:43:15would fall what kinds of considerations would be used to determine how one million or one million

1:43:22plus would be allocated throughout the community and at various times throughout the year.

1:43:28So through the mayor to council I'm actually going to pass the question back the delegated

1:43:32authority for signing off does sit with me because the community investment strategy the

1:43:36delegation of authority for the signature does sit with me because of community grants and the

1:43:42community our community benefit agreement sits with the deputy CAO of public services and

1:43:49one small portion of it does sit within the CAO's office area which is this portion and so

1:43:55that work does still sit in the CAO's office area but the mere signature sits with me so I'm not

1:44:01trying to pass the buck but I think your question is actually better answered by Alex or James I'm

1:44:07hoping. Okay whoever's in the hot seat. Through the mayor to councillor I'll uh yes so uh the

1:44:14signing the signing off is with DCA CLAC Bush and but the the evaluation would be a staff committee

1:44:25we're thinking tourism economic development community investment culture having the review

1:44:33of this and we would be basing our review on on a rubric under the evaluation and assessment outlined

1:44:40in the um policy around partnership and collaboration partner or project alignment with priority objectives

1:44:48demonstrated visitor attraction uh economic impact that sort of thing um whether an an idea is

1:44:55innovative or unique um and it all all of the applications would be based on this rubric

1:45:03with the staff committee with those reviews um and the recommendations going to to uh the DCO

1:45:10public services for final sign off. Thank you very much. I just wanted to add that the important part

1:45:16too is we've created a process that it doesn't rest in one department the evaluation so that's why

1:45:22we've brought in other departments in the interest of you know transparency and kind of what we spoke

1:45:27about earlier this morning that we're trying to cast the net wide and share that approval

1:45:32responsibility and evaluation. Thank you James uh councillor O'Rourke. Thank you mayor Guthrie.

1:45:41Through you to um our staff so we use the the number of $500,000 just to make it tidy. I asked you

1:45:51by email to ask for a breakdown between like how much money will go to destination animation the

1:45:57gather here and the destination gaps needs funds um I'm going to ask you to provide that in writing

1:46:03before the the end of the month but can you just give us a breakdown of what the proportions are

1:46:08because I I would just want to validate what's in the email and then what's in the staff report.

1:46:16Through you uh mayor uh to councillor O'Rourke so um for 2024 um and 2025 we are anticipating that

1:46:26$30,000 would be allocated to the the destination animation program um around 10,000 and this is

1:46:34the city's side of things so 10,000 um for the gather here sponsorship program um and then uh

1:46:41likely around 20,000 for a destination gaps and needs program. Okay so three america three to staff so

1:46:47100,000 goes off the top into the reserve fund and about 120,000 goes for sort of staffing and

1:46:54buying of ads or whatever you want to do for that so I just want to understand why only 10,000

1:47:00dollars goes to the gather here sponsorship program when it's supposed to allocate actually up to 25,000

1:47:06and when that's the one that's most likely to drive um people staying in hotels so the other

1:47:12people I'll give you an example my birthday is coming up and I haven't done the food tour yet

1:47:16I want to do that it's going to be great it will not add to the mat tax because I won't stay in a

1:47:22hotel that night so I'm just trying to understand the proposed distribution and why we wouldn't put

1:47:28more in the gather here sponsorship program because it feels like there's $50,000 for destination

1:47:35animation and the gaps and needs which could be the same people right it could be the same tourism

1:47:42operators um but it just it feels like it's very light on the gather here side so I'm just wondering

1:47:48what your feedback is on that and whether we would reconsider that. Through the mayor to

1:47:54councillor roark my apologies so that is the city's contribution um because we're offering these

1:48:01funding streams in partnership with destination marketing wealth there um there is also funds on

1:48:07that side of things so um there will uh the budget our colleagues at the chamber they operate on a

1:48:15different fiscal year um so the the amounts allocated will likely look very similar for the

1:48:22destination animation program so probably around the $30,000 um whereas gather the gather here

1:48:29sponsorship is really a investment attraction visitor attraction funding stream so destination

1:48:36marketing wealth as the destination marketing organization would be contributing um higher

1:48:42amounts um whereas the city would has like the lower amount in that area um uh because we would

1:48:50be supporting you know probably more like the smaller not-for-profit uh events attraction.

1:48:55So through my gather to staff I can ask you questions between now and the end of the month

1:49:02in 2016 2015 2016 I worked on the special olympic spring games non-profit thousand athletes or sorry

1:49:10600 athletes no a thousand athletes and 600 coaches and all that so non-profit but there

1:49:14was a substantial contribution from the city because the city was a partner so again like the

1:49:19allocation the proportion of the allocations is a concern for me um and even if they were smaller

1:49:26non-profit operators um they would then be sharing a proportion of $10,000 so um I'm I'm going to

1:49:35endeavor to follow up between now and the end of the month and perhaps we can discuss it what a

1:49:39different allocation might look like okay um so three americats you have a couple more questions

1:49:46and so you know I asked questions ahead of time this is not at all a gotcha moment it just kind

1:49:49of crystallized through the conversation okay um so through you america through we have traditionally

1:49:59engulfed had a very sort of hyperlocal tourism approach which again does not drive heads and

1:50:05beds so can you help me understand what the strategy is more broadly to attract people like is it

1:50:13marketing is it collaborations with you know cities up and down the goal line like

1:50:19the hyperlocal piece will not create more mat and at the end of the day that's my interest

1:50:24because it creates more funding locally for more tourism so what is the strategy to drive people

1:50:32through you mr mayor to councillor roark we do have a strategy and a lot of that has been

1:50:38based on the data that we did get through our visitor survey so we are targeting the gta area

1:50:44the 401 corridor we are going to start to target other areas where we've noticed an increase in

1:50:50visitation what we are trying to do is incentivize things so people will stay over or people will

1:50:58stay longer and potentially stay in hotels so if we do have an event ticketed or not that we can

1:51:04package up with an incentive value added hotel stay and perhaps something that also incentivizes

1:51:11things from some of our retailer restaurants that's where we want to bundle so there is a

1:51:17wiffam basically we want to create the wiffam for people to come and stay and we also want again

1:51:24some of those visitors to friends and family to translate to longer overnight stays because we are

1:51:31we are um promotionally and public publicizing uh all the events that do happen here

1:51:38that would be of interest to people from outside of guave so we do have a very um stringent marketing

1:51:46plan that is still ever evolving a pr plan where we want to make sure that we are raising awareness

1:51:52through earned media and digitally uh marketing to geo specific areas thanks um through america

1:52:01three i'm also curious are we working with the university or with large employers around their

1:52:06business travel and uh and conferences potentially like again if people come to visit me we may or

1:52:13may not go out they may or may not stay with us but when i travel for a conference or when i travel

1:52:18on business i might not stay an extra night but the goal was to have me stay in a hotel right so

1:52:26what does that partnership look like with the university or with our largest employers like

1:52:30linamar for example uh through the marriage to council our work uh we we are actually working

1:52:37very closely with the university on our event and conference um uh pitch package and and developing

1:52:45those uh resources to help them sell their uh space as conference space um you know our our

1:52:52intake form is the collects the same information so that when folks come through us it's a clear

1:52:58pipeline to the university as well or or to other conference spaces in the city um and we are uh

1:53:04looking forward to sharing this information more broadly as we get the new gathering guave website

1:53:10up and running uh with some of our our larger employers as well to help them understand guave

1:53:16as a place to bring folks in for training for conferences for events um and not just the places

1:53:21that they can stay but the things for them to see do um as team building initiatives and and

1:53:27experiences to help uh drive those extended stays as well okay thanks margaret we just have a

1:53:33clarification question and then like a longer term question i got a great question from a

1:53:36constituent this week oh yeah uh i appreciate that got a question from a constituent this week

1:53:43and his question was when the county uses hotel rooms do we collect the mat and i think that's

1:53:50important for the general public to know what the status of that is and if you could answer the same

1:53:54thing about when the university rents rooms for conference accommodation do we then collect the

1:53:59mat uh through the mayor to councillor work the quick answer is no we don't collect mat when the

1:54:07county's using hotel rooms um with respect to the university alexander team's been working with the

1:54:14university and they have agreed in the summer months or the middle school months to collect the

1:54:20accommodation tax on any overnight stays they're providing terrific thank you my last question

1:54:26through you margaret um the mat tax collection is predicated on the number of available hotel rooms

1:54:33we keep losing hotels in the city can you tell me is there a larger plan to attract um

1:54:39hotel or overnight accommodation capacity through the mayor to councillor work this is

1:54:46absolutely something staff are keeping their eyes on um and we are looking at um we you know we are

1:54:52in very early conversations with lots with with a couple different providers who are interested

1:54:57um but there we are we are recognizing that this is something that we have to build capacity and

1:55:03over the next you know many years to bring more hotels back online thank you and it looks like

1:55:10my last question is from councillor Caton thank you through you mr mayor um i was just wondering

1:55:20through this model would the g to g trail potentially qualify for funding uh through the

1:55:31mayor to councillor Caton uh i don't feel comfortable making or making a generalized statement

1:55:37without seeing a project proposal and those kinds of things but um the way that the programs have

1:55:43been developed is to be very inclusive of all organizations who can demonstrate um you know

1:55:50visitorship uh overnight impact economic impact um those uh those criteria of evaluation that um i

1:55:57addressed earlier if you can demonstrate that we really want to know how we can help to partner and

1:56:03leverage uh the investments that groups are making to bring people here great thank you great thank you

1:56:17is if it's okay i'll just ask my quick questions then and um get get me out of the way um how do

1:56:25people how do people or organizations promoters however we want to call them

1:56:31show that they've met the metrics you require for making the different categories that they'll meet

1:56:39the the the breaking the threshold you get the this you gave an example in the report as you know

1:56:44oh they'll get the gather here if they meet 200 so like is that really that's the metric and it will be

1:56:51it will be um a set standard metric across anyone that applies that means if someone had only 198

1:57:00beds they don't meet the mark like i'm just trying to understand make sure for consistency purposes

1:57:05that it's a level playing field from a metric that you're actually looking for for people to qualify

1:57:14to you mr maire so the uh the requirements outlined um i think the 200 room night specifically

1:57:23was in reference to a major event where we would look differently but the um the application will

1:57:30be built where we ask these questions so um just drawing on the gather here sponsorship stream

1:57:35like as an example um typically uh larger scale events they know how many attendees they get you

1:57:42know um a conference knows that they typically get 500 uh delegates a uh a hockey team or a hockey

1:57:51tournament knows that they're bringing in seven teams and everybody's going to need you know 20

1:57:57room nights right so those those numbers are are typically pretty um at hand for these kinds of

1:58:03organizations um and when they apply to us they would be able to um highlight those numbers that

1:58:09they're anticipating um but of course the part of the evaluation is really understanding you know how

1:58:15many room nights they're expecting and it gives staff the ability to um allocate funds that that

1:58:21feel appropriate to that um and then there will be a report required at after the event or the

1:58:27project is complete where we can um you know uh measure against what they thought versus what was

1:58:34delivered um and we can learn from that as well okay but if i'm and just okay go ahead james sorry

1:58:43just one comment and it leads to councillor roerick's comments these are allocation kind of guidelines

1:58:51the parameters we've put out we haven't received any applications yet so we're learning as we go

1:58:58and we can definitely we're going to learn these sorts of things what some of the parameters we

1:59:02may need to tweak in the future we're going to see where people are fun applying for funding for the

1:59:07different streams and then we're going to report back to to council um in terms of the results as

1:59:13alex mentioned but at the same time we may need tweaks um to this program so this nothing here

1:59:20including the allocations is carved in stone it's kind of let's see what comes in who's

1:59:25interested in the community and uh and then report back to council at a later date okay okay

1:59:33so my next question is just about the money that's collected and just straight up yes or no here

1:59:38it is some of the money collected not going to capital potential capital infrastructure upgrades

1:59:48to you mayor uh a little bit more complicated than yes or no okay so the $100,000 that is going

1:59:55into the reserve fund that is where we would likely come back we sorry we will come back to council

2:00:02if we wanted to invest in more capital level projects to request the request the use of those

2:00:08reserve funds and attribute them into a capital account but using the mat reserve okay so I was

2:00:15under the impression I think when we originally did the mat tax that there would be a portion

2:00:20at that time I can't remember exactly what it was so has things changed a bit um to the mayor I think

2:00:30over time $100,000 a year in a capital account not going to get you very far so the idea of

2:00:37putting that money into the reserve fund would be icing on the cake for capital projects that are

2:00:43already occurring so if there's a project let's use um you know one of the projects downtown

2:00:49and there's something there that wouldn't normally have been done but we think it's part of

2:00:55place making or it's a tourism draw we could use that already existing capital project and add

2:01:00some additional funding for that nice to have as part of that project as approved by council

2:01:08okay okay so you know what we often sometimes hear this could very well be a rumor so my apologies

2:01:18I'm not trying to state it as fact I'm just the conduit from the community you know if we had a

2:01:24sound system in the Sleeman Center we would be able to actually attract more events here and if we

2:01:31attract more events here we get more people here and then they stay overnight potentially and then

2:01:36we get more mat tax and then we can have bigger events here and not just the Arkels which was great

2:01:42but um you know these one-off like one-off events that happen barely once every five years um as a

2:01:51concert as an example but if we put the money into the Sleeman Center we could turn an under

2:01:56performing asset into a performing asset and actually you know have a useful more useful

2:02:01asset so where is that bigger thinking of using these funds um to go towards things that can

2:02:09unlock more revenue and better events for the city to draw more people here uh to the mayor so that

2:02:18is where we would we would come back to council to access the reserve funds and and make those kinds

2:02:23of uh recommendations to to invest um in collaboration with other staff departments um you know if that

2:02:31is something that we had the the capacity to improve upon then we would come back and ask to be able

2:02:38to do that with what has been collected that a hundred thousand dollars year over year in the reserve

2:02:44okay oh Colleen did you want to jump in sure thank you and through the mayor and to council

2:02:48definitely we are always looking at those opportunities I just wanted to take the

2:02:52chance to make sure that I publicly stated that that particular example is not the reason why we

2:02:56don't have a bigger concerts coming to Sleeman Center that sound system is not the impediment

2:03:01the Sleeman Center sound system is very very adequate for the type of events but any large

2:03:05concert coming into the Sleeman Center we would always be bringing in an outside sound system

2:03:09our rena's always do and so that's not I just don't want to leave with the public with the

2:03:12impression that that is the impediment certainly there are other challenges associated with location

2:03:19and size and you know there are other things and we will always work with our tourism partners to

2:03:23look at what are the opportunities that there might be to bring other events in and so the

2:03:28broader answer to the question is yes we will always look at those opportunities to what are

2:03:32the capital improvements that we could do to our facilities to look at bringing in larger scale

2:03:37events so I won't get too too far down in the weeds but I just didn't want to leave with the

2:03:41community no no that's fair that there was that that that that because it's a little I think a

2:03:46piece of nagging urban legend that is unfortunately plagued plagued our team at the Sleeman Center

2:03:52and so we have lots of great opportunities to bring events and concerts into the Sleeman Center

2:03:58and so I just want to make sure that I got that plug out there well that's good and that's why I

2:04:02started the question with it could be rumor right so I started there you've you you've fixed it thank

2:04:08you very much for doing that okay so I just want to I just want to ask here and I want to know if

2:04:16I'm on topic or not okay is the money here being collected and now distributed the way you're

2:04:22presenting it is any of it going to do city run events or is it all third party outside people

2:04:31coming to us and I'm just going to give you examples you know

2:04:36Councillor Caron I hope you smile with me on this one like the Raptors thing downtown

2:04:43like we had like 2,500 people in our downtown core for like two or three nights that was amazing

2:04:49a few years ago but that was like a city run quick thing right um you know I just I feel you know

2:05:00what uh Councillor Boosentill I'm just making this up as I go Councillor Boosentill has like her

2:05:04event in award for Margaret Green Park like every year for that community group right is there like

2:05:11but that does the city is that is the MAT tax going to help with these little type of city run

2:05:18initiative events that draw people together for an event or is it completely outside third party

2:05:24that has to come and apply uh to the mayor we do have that funding that's going into the reserve

2:05:30fund so we said it could be used for capital it could be used for something such as you know

2:05:36you're mentioning now so we want to keep it really flexible we want to see what the applications are

2:05:42from the public we wanted to make sure we had part of that municipal accommodation tax allocated to

2:05:48the not-for-profits and the for-profits while at the same time putting some money aside for

2:05:55the city and that could fund increased electrical capacity at St. George's Square

2:06:01or something for summer concerts or it could be whatever but we'll be reporting back to council

2:06:06okay now that you explained that well okay um and so my last question is and I happened to catch you

2:06:12say this uh James so forgive me it's okay I'm going to put you on the spot but you said and I quote

2:06:18we're not event people which is was just a fair answer when you were answering that earlier okay

2:06:23my question back to you is should we be in other words if we're collecting over a million dollars

2:06:30and there's some of that portion that's going to staffing administration should we have another

2:06:37a little bit of a bigger portion with a dedicated event person that actually tries to partner

2:06:44with the communities and the third party groups that are coming to make these things

2:06:48seamless more successful so that's we're not actually going into the budget to create more

2:06:54tax here to do this the tax will be able to pay for it have is there a need that you are seeing

2:07:01that we should step into into that arena um to the mayor I'm not seeing a need for the city to

2:07:09take on events I think obviously this is more towards uh deputy CEO Colleen Clack Bush but

2:07:17she does have a staff team that does facilitate and assist with third party people looking to

2:07:25create events and as well as I believe some of you know some of the programming through the

2:07:30culture and rec group they do undertake um events like the Christmas tree lighting or what have you

2:07:35so I'm not you know that would be a real change in philosophy if the city was looking at starting to

2:07:42create more events and do more events because right now we're we're doing what we're doing

2:07:48through public services and our other groups however this this funding is really about how

2:07:54do we help those third party groups and how do we help facilitate their activities okay it's okay I

2:08:01and I know I'm not trying to for sure not trying to say that you know Dana and others

2:08:08are not doing that their work under your department deputy CEO Clack Bush it was more for these

2:08:16specific like large huge things should we have a dedicated person on that which frees up sort of

2:08:22your staff to do what what they're currently doing and that that's where I was going I wasn't trying to

2:08:27say that you know me I'm not trying to say it through the other thing yeah and through the mayor

2:08:32the my comment more that I wanted to jump in to make is of course we do have I think everybody

2:08:36knows we do have event staff river run hosts events where we we bring events in we haven't done that as

2:08:42much at the Sleiman Center but part of the challenges that also comes with risk so when we get into

2:08:48hosting events then we take the risk on to the municipality's shoulders and so the more we get

2:08:54into event hosting there also is the risk side of it which is financial risk and so when you look

2:09:02at bigger things and Sleiman Center has come up that's one of the discussions because that is a

2:09:06location we could get into actually being the event host and bringing the events in but then we

2:09:13take the financial risk on to the municipality's shoulders we do some of that at Riverrun we do

2:09:18host events and so if the concert doesn't sell enough tickets we take the financial loss on the

2:09:23municipalities on the municipality's budget and so we have done that in wealth in a fairly small

2:09:30scale way and that would be I think a deviation for us where the mat tax and our our colleagues in

2:09:39tourism it has been better for us to be partners and to almost I think kickstart and be the seed

2:09:46money to others and to work with partners in the community I think that's a better position for us

2:09:51as a municipality to be the facilitator to help kickstart and work with partners in the community

2:09:57it is also a better position for us from a financial point of view because it means we're

2:10:01not bearing the financial burden on our shoulders entirely. No that's great thank you I'll just

2:10:07end then with just a comment and it's an encouragement comment okay please take it as that but you know

2:10:13I I remember first time mayor 2014 that's when that destination next group started kind of doing the

2:10:20work and I think you were with me right Councillor Downer yeah I think you were with me for the

2:10:25destination next stuff so we're talking 10 years ago and it clearly came out there we're good at

2:10:30like music stuff and we're great at sports that's what Guelph's all about so now it's now you know

2:10:36nine years later we're sort of repeating like the stuff we know right and what I really like about

2:10:42this is that okay we're getting on with it now but I really want to encourage you that we got to get

2:10:47on with it like we're collecting a million bucks like let's let's I want to you know Councillor

2:10:53Work rightly says this all the time to us as a little reminder you know we got to be better at

2:10:57communicating the successes of what we're doing you know whether it be climate change initiatives

2:11:02or whatever right we have to be our own kind of promoters a little bit here I I don't when I look

2:11:09at what events I know of in the city just to be just to be straightforward here I don't know of

2:11:15anything that's actually flown through sort of and I feel bad about saying this but through

2:11:20your department or or the chambers yet because it's it's starting now like I can think of the

2:11:26exotic car show downtown I can think of like other third party events that I've known about

2:11:33but not through this system yet so as it goes through this system as these things do it we need

2:11:39to publicly be promoting what we're doing a lot more but we need to sort of get at it which is why

2:11:44you're here today which is great but I just I think we just really need to get at this we've got the

2:11:49money we got the system now in place I encourage you to please like let's let's let's get some

2:11:56successes under our belt and showcase what we can do here because a lot of people are sort of asking

2:12:01like where's this money where's it going what's it going to well now we know now we know where it is

2:12:06what's what's what's really champion those successes as they come out okay that's my

2:12:10comments on that did you have a comment before I call the vote go ahead to that the destination

2:12:14next I think it was more like 2017 2018 and then they were getting the the mat tax stuff ready and

2:12:21then covert head and the hotels begged for us not to implement it at that time right so I think

2:12:28I think the delay it's definitely been covered it's not we've I think the city's sort of yeah I

2:12:34would I would not discount that at all yeah absolutely yeah but I agree that it's okay now

2:12:38that we've got it but now that we've got it just want to encourage and that there was a lot of great

2:12:41ideas that came out of that yeah program yeah okay can I call the vote everybody looks like I can

2:12:48yes okay I'll call the vote is anyone against nobody that's great so between now and the end of the

2:12:56month we might have a little bit more communications about things that we've heard either from our

2:13:00delegates today or the questions that have come from the public we'll we'll speak we'll speak

2:13:05you know off between now and the end of the month to see if there's anything further but thank you

2:13:08very very much looking forward to seeing some successes with the great events in the community

2:13:14okay so we have just councillor Goller with a couple of follow-up questions on the

2:13:18gulf greener homes um technically vice chair Klassen did you want to come and sit here and

2:13:25chair this portion no okay you're good with that okay then councillor Goller uh over over to you

2:13:35with these questions thank you through worship and thank you uh to to staff preparing the report

2:13:44I was very happy to see that 300 applications have been received for this program and I did

2:13:51note that there is a request and a change in the amount of funding that is provided up front so I

2:13:57wanted to ask of the 300 applications how many of those would have qualified for the grant

2:14:05funds that are available as part of that program as opposed to just the loan

2:14:11um so maybe maybe I'll start through the mayor to council galler so so far we have

2:14:1720 households that have taken part in the grant program that grant program does provide

2:14:26up to $15,000 for the installation of a heat pump so we we look at heat pumps because they're

2:14:32usually the most cost prohibitive but they also provide the most greenhouse gas

2:14:37emission reductions so we're trying to encourage that so in terms of of impact going forward the

2:14:45it won't affect the loan program because we have a certain amount of money that is designated for

2:14:51the grant program and so what we were trying to do is based on some of the feedback that we've

2:14:57received is increase the ability for people to take part in that program but also decrease the

2:15:05financial burden for those who are in the low-income stream thank you thank you for that I appreciate

2:15:13knowing that it's it's been 20 households and by making the change from up to a 50 up front what

2:15:20do we expect that to to change I mean would that unlock it for for many more people I'm just trying

2:15:25to understand why 50% and why not perhaps 100% of the money up front if we're talking about low-income

2:15:32households that may not be able to to initiate projects on their own through you chair classon

2:15:41to councillor Goller um yeah to answer that so again we're we're increasing it from the loan

2:15:47program where it is 20% initial disbursement to a 50% initial disbursement we've been saying

2:15:53through experience from contractors that you know that that amount is is okay for a startup

2:15:58for a project and then also to further help with the the cash flow constraints for for the low-income

2:16:06households is to also pay invoices accordingly with the grant up into a 10% hold back so again to

2:16:16just to just kind of have some control to make sure that people are still going through the

2:16:20program properly and that we're doing the closeout properly so that we are meeting the

2:16:24requirements of the program but balancing it with the cash flow constraints okay okay I really

2:16:28appreciate that now that that helps me understand why it's that there's a portion held back so that

2:16:33it's paid as the work is done could you tell tell us of those 300 applications what sort of projects

2:16:39are people undertaking and I'm wondering you know when I talk to my constituents what kind of things

2:16:44do we encourage them to to to work on through the chair to council go so we have a list of

2:16:52ranked so a majority about a third of those 300 registrants are looking at air source heat pumps

2:16:58which is good news for the reasons that I mentioned earlier that's followed by energy star windows

2:17:03insulation solar installations and water heater heat pumps so generally when when someone calls in

2:17:12if they're looking for some advice our staff have been very helpful in terms of what their situation

2:17:18is what you know what they'd like to what they're interested in and can provide some recommendations

2:17:24on how they might move forward not only what they're going to do but how they're going to do it as

2:17:27well and that's really a credit to staff on why the the program is so successful it succeeded all

2:17:33of our expectations we expected you know a third of the registrants that we have now so

2:17:40and particularly happy of the uptake of the low-income stream as well so lots of good news for the

2:17:46city of Guelph on this program and that's a credit to staff well thank you thank you very much for

2:17:51that information that is that is really appreciated I did have through you chair

2:18:00your worst chair one last question in terms of reporting how will we know what the net impact is

2:18:09to to our city so so someone changes their their their heat pump they will know themselves that they

2:18:15have a lower energy cost moving forward but how are we going to report that as part of the success

2:18:20of this program down the road through you chair to councillor goller so when we develop the program

2:18:29we've we've taken on a portal system and and our our recording data and then I'll be

2:18:38straightforward with this we are learning through the program as well

2:18:43as we are as we are receiving applications we are also under the program rules receiving the post

2:18:51energy audits and all that stuff so the data is there and so we do have we are going through the

2:18:56process of analyzing that and looking at how we can and see the ghe impact overall rules of thumb

2:19:05again as as DCO homes had mentioned you know the big the big push for heat pumps and as we see

2:19:12through our grand stream so we are we are promoting those as being big big ghe savings

2:19:20also I guess as we were just kind of doing some general review and rules of thumbs with other

2:19:26with other grant programs the federal program is seeing about 1.2 tons per year per household

2:19:33through their program and our program is emulated very much like to the the Canada

2:19:40home energy grants that existed before okay okay so we'll reporting oh yes sorry it's through the

2:19:47chair if I could just add to it we have heard loud and clear from from you councillor mr. mayor

2:19:53that you're interested in communicating our success not only in this program but of all of our

2:19:58climate change work so we are working to put together a communication package that will

2:20:05package all of this up so that you can spread that good news amongst your constituents

2:20:11okay well thank you very much I look forward to seeing that information down the road and I really

2:20:16commend the staff team for for having such a successful initial number of applicants to this

2:20:23program thank you very much thank you and I would like to move the motion to accept the report

2:20:33alt will will second I did see another hand up there for councillor Gibson just report on the

2:20:40bylaw upgrade or yeah so you're trying to move both both 7.2 and 7.3 7.2 I believe also has a

2:20:50change in the bylaw which is from 20 to 50 percent so just wanted to make sure that is captured in

2:20:55that yes earlier when consent was done I think you you mentioned you only wanted to pull 7.2

2:21:03which does change the bylaw you're worse yeah yeah yeah so you're good we're not I just want to

2:21:08make sure clerks know we're only doing on 7.2 yeah yeah that's all just 7.2 7.3 was adopted on consent

2:21:15but to councillor Goller's point the the motion here is is a is an update to the the ggh loan

2:21:20program bylaw thank you um now look councillor Gibson I think I saw your hand go up too

2:21:27yeah thank you through mr mayor nothing major just doing some like sort of revisionist history

2:21:32while I read the report today when I read interest-free loans I reminded myself that was a little

2:21:37different from what was originally proposed but then I was also reminded that it was the

2:21:41Canadian municipal Federation of Canadian municipalities that was doing the financing

2:21:46and we're just doing the collection is that correct I know we're not re-litigating this

2:21:50greener homes program I just trying to refresh my my memory it was interest-free loans but that

2:21:55funding source was through the Canadian Federation of municipalities and we were simply acting as the

2:22:00steward or the collector of the of the loan payment loan repayment through you chair to

2:22:09councillor Gibson just as a general overview so yeah and I want to thank Federation Canadian

2:22:15municipalities for the strong support for this program so overall the FCM is

2:22:21uh under the program is grant has provided the city of Guelph 10 million dollars of interest-free

2:22:27loan to the city to disperse out to households um as well with that is the five million dollar grant

2:22:35for program development program operations over the four-year term the program as well as what can

2:22:42be dispersed out as what we're doing as that low-income household grant for the heat pumps as we

2:22:48mentioned earlier the city is contributing up to 3.75 million dollars under the program rules

2:22:54and that is also going out as interest-free loan to households and being paid back by households

2:23:00to the city great thank you thank you all right um I will call the vote on this then is anyone

2:23:12against that updated bylaw and that's nobody on against that so that's unanimous as well so perfect

2:23:19all right well that brings us to the end of our committee meeting thank you very much everyone