Staff to draft a complaint-based vacant home tax by-law for Council approval, with a vacant home tax rate of four per cent, subject to the inclusion of $275,000 in estimated expenditures and estimated program revenues (based on a four per cent tax rate), in…

17:06Delegation which is Ken Thompson Thompson, which I think will be here in person is Ken here. Yes, come on down Ken

17:13Thank you and for anyone delegating tonight. Just so you know no more than five minutes

17:21You will hear a chime at the four minute and thirty second mark

17:25Which gives you your thirty second warning and then that means that the five minute mark your microphone is turned off

17:32And we don't like that when that happens

17:34So please make sure that when you hear that warning that you know your time is almost up

17:38Stick around after your delegation just in case there's a follow-up question for myself or my colleagues, okay?

17:43Ken, thank you very much for joining us tonight, and I'll turn the floor over to you

17:48Thank you. I'll be less than five minutes

17:51Good evening staff council and mayor Guthrie

17:54My name is Ken Thompson, and I'm pleased to be delegating this evening on behalf of the vacant housing tax working group of get involved

18:00Guelph a community organization that supports residents in being active participants in local decision-making

18:06I addressed this body on this issue previously and tonight. I'm offering a few thoughts about how

18:11We think that the tax should be implemented to ensure maximum efficacy and also garner the most community support

18:18We as you know are strongly in favor of a vacancy tax at 4% of assessed value as are

18:24Over 810 Guelph residents who signed an informal petition on our website as of this morning

18:31Although we would have preferred the tax to be implemented by a mandatory declaration

18:35We understand that urgency and resource constraints favor a complaint-based system at this time this approach will certainly

18:42Make progress on the vacancy issue

18:45But for reasons of equity and program effectiveness

18:48We still believe that Guelph's tax will eventually need mandatory declaration at least periodically to sort of census or inventory

18:55The vacant vacant units in town

18:57Tonight I wish to share five quick suggestions for implementing the vacancy tax first the staff report

19:04Indicates that self declaration will be an option which of course has merit

19:08However in Hamilton 90% of vacant units were not declared and this was with a mandatory declaration

19:14We believe that Guelph's vacancy tax should include an incentive for property owners to self declare for example

19:19self-declare properties could be taxed at 3.5% instead of 4% which amounts to

19:242500 saved annually on a $500,000 home so a reasonable incentive as currently designed

19:30It is not rational for owners to self declare rather. It's rational to wait and hope that nobody notices your vacant home

19:36Second as noted at committee of the whole there are compassionate circumstances such as when the owner of a property has passed away

19:43Where I think a lot of people feel that two years is simply not enough time to act on a home

19:47We suggest that you all consider

19:50Extending the compassionate exemption period to three years instead of the currently proposed two

19:55Third it's deeply unfortunate that properties zoned as multi multi residential are exempt from the vacancy tax due to provincial legislation

20:03We recommend that the city appeal to the province to empower municipalities to apply a vacancy tax to multi residential buildings

20:10Fourth public education and consultation will be critical as the vacancy taxes rolled out in my experience

20:17Many objections to this policy stem from simple misunderstandings about exemptions

20:22For example if a retired homeowner takes a long vacation or spends several months at a cottage after spending six months in Florida

20:30Their principal residence in Guelph will in fact be exempt from the tax

20:34That same exemption applies if a professor or other professional takes a sabbatical and

20:39homeowners will not be taxed for

20:42vacant basement suites or secondary suites as the property of the primary residence is exempt from the tax

20:47We believe that the city should invest in public education and outreach through town halls and have your say campaign over the next year

20:54Fifth and finally we believe it would be prudent to treat the first year of the vacancy tax as an open pilot project

21:01With a complete public review at the end of the year

21:03If exemptions are adjusted in year two refunds should be issued to homeowners to maintain consistency and fairness from year one to year two

21:11In conclusion we encourage council to implement a vacancy tax as soon as possible to help in some measure alleviate our local housing crisis

21:18The city should incorporate sensible exemptions now while remaining open to further refinement in future with effective consultation in public

21:26Education we believe that the majority of Guelph residents will support this policy. Thank you

21:30Thank you Ken for coming and delegating and is there a follow-up right now for Ken or okay councillor Gibson

21:38Yeah, thank you Ken very much a really thoughtful insights. I do appreciate because I have been spending a lot of time

21:44Um, thinking about this policy, uh, thinking about where I'm going to go this evening with supporting it

21:50Um, you mentioned I'll tell you my biggest hurt. Um, the exemptions exist. We implement the vacancy home tax

21:57I think it's being funded out of the affordable husband reserve this year

22:00It's going to cost a couple hundred thousand dollars to administer

22:04We start sending out notices of potential vacant tax being levied and people scramble

22:10Get into their exemption window fill the home. It solves the problem

22:14So we can look at it two ways

22:16It solves the problem then also what do we do with the operating costs once the problem is solved

22:22I heard you say pilot program

22:24and I I'm wondering if that is

22:27The branch that I use this evening to support simply because I fear

22:31I'll ask you the question

22:33What a one-year review of the program be suitable in terms of

22:38Where it's being funded from and the efficacy of its uh of its stated purpose

22:45Okay, see if I know how to do this from last week through you mayor to councillor Gibson

22:51good, um

22:53So I think if you look at the Hamilton year one review

22:58That would have been enough information for the for that city to make an indication that the program was worth continuing

23:04and so I think it's um

23:06I think there will be a lot of information after one year

23:08um to make a good decision about how to continue this into the future

23:13and

23:15I think these types of programs

23:17Naturally the costs change over time

23:21I think there's going to the cost will probably be the highest in the first year

23:24And then I think you'll see the vacancy rate decline a lot as it has been seen in the other municipalities that have implemented the sort of policy

23:32and I think the city can look at um

23:34reducing staffing that's dedicated to this I think it will um, I think eventually reach a fairly steady state that

23:42um

23:42No municipalities in Ontario. I don't think have quite reached yet, but I think

23:46There'll be opportunity for consistent review

23:50Thanks, and I'll take those questions to staff as well the administrative burden. I think

23:56Will be largely unchanging will staff up to administer the tax

24:00The issue that I'm having is if we do solve the problem, which is what we all want to do

24:04um, what happens if we have five vacant homes being taxed and

24:08It's the program ends up costing us right now. We're going to be drawing out of the affordable housing reserve. I believe to fund it

24:14How do we look at this long term?

24:17Anyhow, I'll take those questions to staff and I do appreciate good. I really appreciate your

24:21delegation. Thank you

24:23Thank you

24:24Great. I don't think I see anything more. Thank you again Ken appreciate it

24:30um

24:32With that

24:34There is some correspondence as well my um

24:38Our colleagues on council

24:41So it is back to us

24:43In regards to the recommendations

24:46Can I just get at least someone to table the recommendations for me?

24:50Okay, I'll go with clausen and uh, caron. Okay

24:55Thank you. Now, uh, this is going to

24:59Potentially jump around a little bit. Okay, because we have the motions that were done at committee the whole

25:06And they kind of stayed as they were because we were waiting for the memo

25:10The memo is now here and it has the options here. So we have to sort of table what came from committee of the whole

25:17And then we'll look to maybe amend. Okay based on our conversation that we had at committee the whole and based on where the memo was at

25:24So can I just have

25:27um

25:29The motions put up for us. I think that's what we kind of arranged right? Okay. Okay

25:47So clerks feel free to jump in whenever you want to hold my hand as we walk through this. Okay. Oh

25:57That's okay. I cannot read that fast

26:01Do you I'm sorry. Do you mind if we put that back up? Okay. Cool. Thank you so much

26:06um

26:09One

26:10seems legit, right?

26:13It's advocacy. It's an infrom you know information report

26:17I don't there's really nothing there that I don't think needs to be amended. I think we should all be okay with that

26:22Yeah, so do you mind if we just call the vote on number one?

26:26Okay, councillor gar you go ahead just the question your worship on page seven of the staff memo

26:33They're recommending motions for council consideration

26:36Around advocacy just so that I understand would one two three four on page seven of the report replace number one here

26:43Or be additional to number one here

26:46Yeah, so I don't have it in front of me. I'm only going by memory

26:50But I believe the motions on page seven of the memo are specific to around bill 60

26:56Which is a separate issue. I'd like to do at the end of this

27:01Do you know what I mean? Like I like I want to do renovation and and and and

27:04The vacancy tax and get that settled

27:07And then we'll do the bill 60 advocacy ones that were on page seven

27:11Everyone following me so far. Okay

27:13So I'm going to call the vote. I'll split these out because I have to split them out because I think we're going to amend a couple of them

27:19Right, so I'll call the vote on number one. Okay. Is anyone against the first one?

27:25Nobody okay, perfect. So now on number two

27:30Uh, it looks like maybe you yourself councillor Goller would like to

27:34Table councillor

27:36Downer do you want to table an amendment for for the second one?

27:40Which would be if you can pull it up on the

27:42Screen. Yes. So this is in this is from the memo

27:47um, one of the other

27:49Motions we could do when we talked about having to bring this forward

27:52That's right

27:53And so this brings it back into into q2 instead of the next year and the staff be directed to draft a rental renovation

28:04Bylaw and a rental replacement bylaw for councils approval by june 30 of 2026 subject to the inclusion of

28:11640,000 funded from the affordable housing reserve in the 2026 budget update

28:18So thank you. So I think councillor Goller was moved or do you care? Do you care?

28:23I just moved it. Okay, perfect councillor downer is moving that amendment councillor Goller will second that okay

28:29And just so everyone remembers too

28:31Um, much of this funding has already been put in the budget right before I signed off on the budget

28:37It's already there right so this the money that's in the budget is going to help accelerate this

28:42And then this is the direction for them to go and do it

28:45Okay, so is there any questions on this amendment before I go further?

28:49go on

28:50Well, just speaking to the report. There was a trade-off and resources related to

28:56Pausing on our green development funds. I just need to confirm with staff that that that

29:03This is not enacting that

29:11It's true the mayor to council crown so the the memo does indicate that in order to complete the work on time

29:15We have to make changes to existing work plans and part of that is the cancellation of the green development

29:21framework and standards

29:26Right, that's what I was afraid of

29:32So we have to we so we're making a decision

29:35on the amendment based on the timing of this motion

29:39that we're pausing on green development standards work

29:43And so this that's going to be a really tough decision because we

29:46Both bodies of work are incredibly important to moving our city forward on it on the housing portfolio

29:55So is there anything as a response from staff or is it be or is the choice being laid out as as it's written right now?

30:03So I want to make sure we're fully informed before making any decision to the mayor the the um or through the mayor

30:09to council crown the

30:11It's as written, but I just want to also confirm though. It's not it's not canceling it outright, but we are deferring it

30:18Into a future. It's not that that we're never coming back to that body of work. So I just want to really

30:23Make that clear. It'll be just the deferral the resources

30:27in in the team need to first prioritize this new body of work

30:33before moving

30:35Back to the green development standards. So I just wanted to make that clear

30:39Okay, so a follow-up if I could is okay if this is deliverable in in in june of 2026

30:45The pause is a six month pause then like we'll we'll start the green development framework work

30:54Six months the pause is a six month period because I I just don't want to lose the momentum on that

30:59We've started the public engagement on this and it's pent up work that's been deferred for many years

31:05We're as a city we're we're well behind in this in this type of work green development standards are

31:11You know it enacted years ago in many other municipalities. So if we're talking six months, I can support I can support this amendment and these motions

31:21Reluctantly but I want it on record that it's not because I don't think that these

31:25This by-law work is important because it is I just don't want to lose all the momentum that we've built on the green development work

31:33Sure. So through the mayor, I can confirm that it will be in in the range of that six month timeframe

31:39I can't completely promise that you know as we get into this work that it may extend a little beyond that time period but

31:47The other piece that we're trying to assess and why it's it's actually

31:52We're we're recommending this delay is also because of the legislation that's changed in bill 60 as well

31:59And we may just need to reassess the work that's already been done

32:03and and reevaluate the the scale of that policy and how it's moving forward

32:09So I can I can commit to you will hear from us from staff in 2026 about this work

32:16Whether it is moving forward in its current form or if there's a change in process because of legislation

32:28Yeah, not not to belabor

32:30The the green development standard issue because we did give direction to that issue unanimously by the way

32:37But the real problem is that the provincial legislation has now stopped it's it's made it completely illegal

32:44The cities cannot do green development standards anymore. I was just talking to sorry to kind of go off the cuff here a little bit

32:50But I was talking to a city council around Toronto and they they had the Toronto Act

32:55They have their own kind of stuff that they can do green roofs as an example has a policy in the Toronto area

33:01That's also gone now as well like anything in regards to that matter is gone

33:06And so we were kind of hoping under the green development standards that there was some other

33:11parcels of it that could still move forward, especially I think there was some

33:15Options around how we could leverage some environmental initiatives around

33:19The community permitting planning system and things like that and also for tracking and data and things like that

33:24So I think the even though the legislation is saying you can't do that anymore from a building permit sort of

33:32Position and development. There was still other qualities to the green development standards

33:38That I think were unique that we wanted as a council to move forward on

33:42So yeah, I think as a takeaway there as councillor crown has raised

33:48You know getting back to us

33:50Outside of the scope of the legislation that sort of has killed it

33:53Is still I think something that needs to maybe just be warranted to continue

33:58But we understand why I think if I don't want to put words in your mouth to our CAO, but

34:06Almost without this sort of trade-off option in front of us here

34:10You would have been sort of somewhat pausing because of the legislation

34:13Anyways, am I saying that right?

34:17I don't want to come into a full pause. It's just that we do need to reevaluate

34:22Part like the way in which we were approaching this is now being impacted by bill 60

34:27That's some aspect and we just need to take the time to make sure that we've got it, right?

34:31Yeah, and to your point mayor Guthrie. Absolutely. We know this is still important from

34:37Our environmental and our climate change goals. Yeah

34:40And it's just no longer mandatory. But is there a way that we can continue to still have it from a

34:46guidance or

34:47you know guidelines and

34:49And maybe other incentive programs down the line. So it's still moving forward

34:55But it will be

34:56This this affordable housing work will take priority in the shorter term and then we'll be

35:02Turning our turning those resources back over to the to the green development standards. All right. Thank you for raising it. Councillor Caron

35:09I believe I saw

35:12Okay, you're okay. Councillor Goller. So the only one I have on the list on this amendment is alt

35:16And thank you very much through you to the ceo

35:19I was a bit concerned as well and the clarification is great. It strikes me that essentially what we're doing is

35:26This is in the interest of transparency. This is a work plan revision for the most part based on the

35:32The immediacy of what we are attempting to deal with and the reality of what we cannot deal with. Is that correct?

35:41Uh through the mayor. Yes

35:43Yeah, okay. So could you just throw that amendment back up on the screen just so everyone's clear?

35:53And then we will vote on that

35:57And then we'll move to number three

36:00Okay, I'm gonna call the vote then on just number two. Um

36:07Would this be on the just the amendment? Yeah on just the amendment

36:10Uh anyone against the amendment?

36:13No, okay. Now I'm gonna call the vote on number two on its own as amended. Okay, the main motion number two only as amended

36:22Okay, is anyone against that?

36:24Okay, nobody. Okay, we're gonna move to number three now

36:41and

36:46I guess we'll switch it up Guller. Yeah, and then maybe uh, who wants to throw their hand up to second? Okay, Richardson. Okay, perfect

36:54So this one is on the vacancy home tax that stop be directed to draft the complaint based vacancy home tax

37:01Bylaw for council approval with the vacant home tax rate of 4 percent subject to the inclusion of

37:07275,000 and estimated expenditures funded 160,000 from the affordable housing reserve

37:12And 115,000 from the housing accelerator fund within the 2026 budget update

37:18So again

37:19The money is in there for this to be accelerating and brought on. Okay

37:24Any questions on this one to staff?

37:28Okay, uh, Guller, please. Thank you through your worship. Uh, just a clarification from staff

37:34We had a timeline for the rental replacement. Could you could you help me understand?

37:40Um, when council if council approves this motion, what is the timeline for us to see the vacant home tax

37:46being implemented

37:56Through the mayor to councillor Goller the intent would be to have a

38:00Uh, report back to council before the end of q2

38:05Thank you very much. Appreciate that. Thank you worship. All right, and I think gibson maybe just had a follow-up to

38:11Based on some of the delegation

38:13Delegation remarks, so thank you. Over to you mr. Mayor perhaps not for the amendment, but for the main motion

38:18I'll I can ask some questions of staff

38:22Actually, this would be the time to do it because number one is fully done number two is

38:26No problem. So now's the time to do it. I just I have reservations about the like the policy prescription here to staff

38:35This is not commentary even though sounds like there are questions

38:38Um

38:40When staff gave their initial presentation on this I believe they said there were 50 homes that they projected

38:46That would be considered um

38:49Sort of out of the compliance with the vacant home tax

38:52So we'd be looking to derive that new tax revenue from them

38:56short of exemptions, however

38:58um, how confident are staff that this

39:02policy

39:04will

39:05Net out and and be net neutral in terms of long-term costs. I understand where the funding is coming from

39:12in 26

39:14But with a with a diminishing return on investment as a policy goal

39:17Our policy goal is to have a diminishing return on tax revenue coming into the city

39:23How do the staff?

39:25What are staff's opinions on long-term?

39:28neutrality of this policy and and when

39:31When would they bring a recommendation to staff saying roll this up? It's not worth

39:37The the 20 homes that we're taxing is not worth the 300 000 dollars in in the administrative costs

39:43Is is because I see that as a real outcome

39:45Uh, two to three years down the road as people jump into their exemptions

39:49Although bring forward reasons why they're vacant. They'll start renovations. They'll

39:53They'll look to get tenants like the I believe the revenue will quickly disappear the projected revenue

39:59So how do we prescribe this?

40:03Long term second question

40:06I did like the delegates idea of a pilot program

40:09To bring people into quick compliance

40:12to to sort of use this as a tool to

40:15drive down vacancy in those homes

40:17Uh, but perhaps not

40:20But the threat of the policy is perhaps as just as powerful as the policy itself. Can I have staff's opinion on that?

40:29Through you may or got three day council gives an answer the second question first and then I'll go to the first question

40:35Um from a pilot project perspective. We did discuss that at a staff level

40:41um

40:42The pilot concept would not have the teeth that a full blown program would have

40:48The concern on a pilot project would be that

40:53property owners may just ride it out

40:56and therefore in the second year if it wasn't continued then they wouldn't

41:01um

41:03Have that continued vacant home tax from that perspective. So

41:08um talking with others in the municipal sector, it's about that not only

41:14the

41:16threat of a policy but a firm stance against vacant homes that then help

41:23suede those property owners

41:25to put them back into the marketplace

41:28Okay, um

41:32Okay, councillor gibson councillor gibson

41:35Just I think james is just in the middle of trying to answer the first part of your question too. Is that okay?

41:40Sure, okay

41:42And then going back to the first question

41:45Um, if I remember everything done pack there

41:49staff recommended a two percent

41:52vacant home tax rate and that was sort of the break-even point with

41:56What we assumed might be 50?

41:59vacant homes out there

42:02We don't have any specific data on that yet. Um, that was an assumption based on some information we had at the city and

42:10um

42:13With the vacant home tax going to four percent, obviously that gives us some significant additional revenue

42:21We've seen in other municipalities

42:24um

42:25That while the numbers go down

42:29There are continued properties that will remain vacant and the property owners

42:35Will pay that amount on an annual basis

42:37So even if we went down to that 20 homework

42:42That you suggested there, we would still be relatively in that break-even point. We're going to monitor this continually

42:49We're going to bring information back on an annual basis and if we find that our expenses exceed the actual revenue

42:56We would look at how do we how do we modify that? How do we reduce our expenses?

43:02Do we pull the plug on the program?

43:05Etc. But that would be something that I think we need to make decisions based on real data

43:11Versus assumptions and that's unfortunately all we have at this point

43:16Okay

43:17So thank you. Those are great answers. Um, I've spoken my trepidations on the file

43:23I think that there's if there are 50 homes in our city

43:2750 and there's 50 000 units in our city across the city or 50 000 property owners in our city

43:32You know, we're we're chasing 1% less than 1% of

43:36homes with this administrative tax

43:39Um, I know where the funding is coming from next year. So it's not all on the tax roll

43:43There are sources of funding that come from it

43:46I do appreciate your comments about

43:49monitoring the costs of this program and its efficacy

43:54Um, I won't get into the question of whether or not you can scale the administration because I think I think two people or three people

44:00administering the taxes as about as fine as it can get

44:03I don't think that you're looking to add a department of 10 to do this program. So

44:08um, I will uh support

44:11support with

44:14I don't even want to say caution. I'm happy that we're bringing forward the plan

44:17But I am going to be asking for that feedback loop regularly from staff to ensure that this isn't getting rolled into the tax

44:24the tax roll

44:26And long term being an administrative cost for the city for what amounts to

44:30Probably less than half a percent of units across the city, but I do appreciate your conversations. Thank you

44:41Okay, and thank you conscription. James just wants to just uh state one more comment. Go ahead James

44:46Yeah, I just wanted to jump back in on the motion itself and I may have been confused about the motion

44:54Um, whether it was the accelerated motion that would align from that q2 time frame that I

45:00Answered to councillor goller or the motion where we go to public engagement

45:06Which would then push the program out farther into 26 and therefore there wouldn't be revenue in 26

45:13So I just wanted to go back and just confirm whether I misspoke

45:18Um, we're going to just put it up so that you and others know exactly what we're doing there

45:27And based on that amendment

45:30Does that capture the one that would help us begin this in q2?

45:34Or are you under the impression that this one does not?

45:41I'm gonna call a friend

45:52Notice how only one person came down

45:57Thank you, um through the mayor so this one um with public engagement would take a longer timeline

46:03To do that work and bring it back. So that's why it's got funding sources from the affordable housing reserve and

46:10the half um

46:12So that that would because we would not have revenue expected in 2026 to fund

46:18that work

46:20So to be clear then the other one should be tabled

46:25So

46:26It's okay. We're we're we're getting it getting it figured out

46:31So, um, can we just uh

46:35Let me just do that my normal process. Okay

46:38Would you be willing to remove your?

46:41Motion. Okay. Thank you. And who was the seconder for that? I think it was caron

46:46Richardson. Okay. Are you okay with the removal of that?

46:49Okay, now I have to ask all of council is all of council okay with the removal of this motion

46:56Okay, thank you. It's officially off the table and now we're going to throw up on the screen

47:01The one that is more accelerated. I believe

47:04And um, I think uh, I think we just need the clerks to have a moment

47:14Through you, mr. Mayor. I just need clarification on on what's being moved by one member of council

47:18That is the alternative motion that was provided in the memo. So I just need some clarity from a member of council

47:24Okay, so

47:26um, just yeah, everyone just take a breath. Okay, let's just let uh

47:29Councillor Klassen. I think just emailed something. I just haven't pulled it up yet

47:46Just point of order mayor Guthrie. Yeah, go ahead. My understanding was that the one that we had up on the screen was the alternative one

47:54That we had in the memo

47:57That was the accelerated one. So the original one

48:01There is no other alternative one for the vacant home one other than the one that was originally moved. So

48:08Which one?

48:13It's my understanding. This is the vacant home

48:15tax

48:17portion and in the memo, this is the alternative one that we just saw

48:22Yeah, okay. It's okay. Everybody

48:25James is good to

48:26James and his friend are clear over the headboard

48:29So from a clarity perspective, so the original motion that we brought to committee the hall

48:34Was an accelerated motion

48:37It was for us to come back in q2 of 2026

48:42At the alternative because we heard during committee hall a comment about public engagement

48:47So the alternative motion included in the memo

48:51Allowed for that public engagement piece

48:54But the program wouldn't then be implemented until 2027

48:58So to be clear if we want to stay on the accelerated timeline, we should just ratify what came from committee of the whole

49:05Correct

49:06giddy up

49:09So

49:10What's on the floor right now is exactly what came from committee of the whole because the amendment is now off the table

49:15Okay, everybody. So the staff are good with that. Yes

49:20Okay staying on just the main motion then as is I think karan had her hand up go ahead

49:24Yeah, again a question of clarity because I understood it would be a

49:28Limited public engagement not zero public engagement

49:32And I think when we're creating a brand new bylaw in the history of our city

49:35To say that we're not going to do any public engagement since a really bad message

49:39So I want to I just want to confirm

49:42What level of public engagement because it was my understanding would we do some and there would be there would be an engagement period

49:48But not the robust kind of

49:50Full-on bylaw work that we would normally do that can take up to a year. So just again that that key

49:57nuance is important for my decision making

50:01To know that there will be some community engagement on this significant shift in our policy work

50:08So through the mayor to councillor Caron

50:11I think this itself is part of that public engagement piece that limited public engagement piece where

50:17Members of the public have had opportunities to come and talk to committee the whole

50:21Express their concerns as well as today

50:24um

50:25And that sort of that talks about that accelerated public engagement piece that were allowed

50:31able

50:32To do within the timeline to bring back a bylaw by the end of q2

50:37Okay, so the engagement in this process fully understood. We've had the public come to us

50:41We've had getting gulf gulf and the community say this is a bylaw we want

50:46But now we go out and write the bylaw

50:48so during the process of writing the bylaw and after the bylaw

50:53Has been written and is is is ready for public consumption

50:58There will be no further public engagement other than bringing it to council. Is that

51:03Is that what I understand?

51:05Yes through the mayor to councillor Caron, but through that process

51:08We'll be bringing it back to council the bylaw in full and the public can

51:14Engage again in that process

51:20So just speaking on that engagement process part

51:24Um, like how difficult would it be to still meet the accelerated timeline? But also maybe just do a have your say

51:32Like a have your say survey is at least shareable

51:35Can grab some feedback you're developing the bylaw as a draft anyways

51:39And then and then it's just easy for us as council to sort of amplify the have your say survey

51:45Um, would that would that be?

51:48justified

51:50Yeah, we can take that away and see what we can do from that perspective

51:55um

51:55and work with our cons team and and get

52:00pieces related to that

52:02Okay, so please forgive me as I just uh respond to that a little bit

52:07um

52:08When you when you say take away

52:10Um, does that mean maybe you'll do it or you won't I just want to make sure that we're we're just

52:17You know, I'm I'm asking totally respectfully

52:19I just want to make sure that I think there's a lot of heads nodding in the room

52:23That we would probably like to have at least at a minimum just to have your say

52:27As I said, it's shareable easily

52:29Something for people to engage in

52:31Do you need if we were to really want to?

52:35Push that forward as a council would it be worthwhile to have?

52:39Um a motion that captures that or could we get confirmation from you that yes that will happen or from the c.a.o

52:46That yes that will happen

52:55We will make it happen. Thank you. Okay

53:00um

53:02Bucatil oh

53:06Do you want to go again?

53:08Just a comment. I just want to thank staff for responding

53:10I uh, that was a make or break for me to vote in favor because I actually support the bylaw

53:15But I I don't want to abandon a proper engagement process. So that actually flipped my vote. So thank you

53:23Okay, thank you and Bucatil. Yes. Thank you and thank you for that

53:27clarification

53:28I just a question. I know I've attended ward five

53:32Ward meetings in the past if I were to organize a ward for

53:36Information session open house on this matter would subject matter staff be able to come and

53:41Include some visuals to explain what this is and I've attended open houses here as well

53:46Just uh, this is the night come and walk through and get a sense. It's a one night kind of thing

53:52um

53:53Just because sometimes have your say doesn't engage some of the people that we want to be part of this

53:58Um, so uh through through the mayor to council

54:05I think I think at this point

54:07It's it's a little premature to be able to commit to the different types of engagement tactics that we're going to be

54:14able to deliver and also still meet the the timeline of

54:19of q2

54:20But but you've heard staff and we hear you

54:23We will try to

54:25create kind of

54:27A little bit of light touch engagement maybe on pieces the most impactful pieces of the vacancy tax like the exemption piece

54:34And and so that we can get some feedback, but it but but I just want to clarify

54:40I don't think we're able to commit to like town halls or or those pieces at this at this stage

54:47But we will do our best to work with council. Um as we pull the plan together

54:55Okay, thank you

54:57So seeing nothing further. I only have one question and that was do we need to at this point

55:05Do an amendment similar to what the delegation said about the three year timeline around

55:11You know a death in the family and they're trying to settle an estate or is that something that?

55:16We don't need to give direction on on that particular exemption

55:20It's a takeaway for you as you draft the bylaw and when it comes back

55:24It may it may be shown that it's been moved from two years to three years in that draft before we we look to vote on it

55:31How how would you like that direction? Is it something that you're just taking away then or is it something that we need to say?

55:37Yeah, we want to make sure it's three years

55:40Yeah, we can take that away and we will work at that process during the bylaw

55:45Um, I'd also like to add just for clarity based on some conversation that occurred at committee the whole

55:52um

55:54There's over 45 000

55:57Residentially assessed homes of many different shapes and sizes in wealth some of them being single family detached condos

56:06semi detached

56:08townhomes etc

56:10There's about two percent

56:13overall that are multi unit

56:17That are defined by impact as having more than one primary resident

56:24A residence within that so from a broad perspective that does not include

56:29ADUs basement apartments

56:31etc

56:32So just from a clarity perspective those are not what we're looking at from a vacant home tax perspective

56:39We're going to be using impact data and impact codes

56:42So there's only about two percent that have multiple units that are primary units

56:48within the city of guelph

56:50So that hopefully can provide some

56:55clarity and calmness from that perspective. We appreciate that

57:00Okay, and then the last question I just had was on the ability to

57:05determine

57:07more than just a complaint based system and

57:11So I was just you know

57:13Councils heard me over the past couple of years say that the city of kitchens

57:17They did a deep dive into this

57:20And they what they did is they actually looked at water data

57:25water use data

57:27And over time they could see the houses

57:31that were not

57:33Being used because the water was not being used

57:37Now what was interesting in Kitchener's case?

57:39their council decided at the time not to move ahead with it at all

57:43Because the water data came back and the entire city of Kitchener was only 125 homes

57:50Now you could argue that that's still something that's wrong fair enough

57:54but

57:55The administrative burden and costs to run the program for just 125 homes didn't match out

58:01So their their council actually didn't move forward with it at the time

58:05But regardless of that it's the tool that was used to try to figure that out

58:10So we're trying to do a complaint based system, which I fully agree with that's fine

58:15The whole self declaration part is is probably way too much at this time

58:21But could we look to do what Kitchener did around looking at water usage to see if we can gather our own data

58:29Without relying on the public to do the complaint in the first place

58:37So through you to Mary Guthrie. I think as part of this program

58:41We'll be looking at all of the data sources that may be available to us legally to support the program

58:49Whether it be through a

58:51complaint based program whether it be through

58:54Utilizing other data sources that data that the city may have or other data that's publicly available

59:01But we need to ensure that we're doing that in the right way

59:06All right. I really appreciate that and I mean I I want to rely on the public

59:11I think there's a lot of

59:13People in the public that will probably identify a lot of these from a complaint based position

59:18But if they're I'm just making this up obviously

59:22but if there was a way of like hitting a button

59:24And figuring out with water usage as well like having both of those programs work

59:30Simultaneously the complaint based and the data driven one may earn us more candidates

59:36For this program. That's that's all I'm trying to make my point on so thank you

59:41Okay, so now what we're going to do is we're going to call the vote on just what came forward from committee of the whole

59:45Because that is the accelerated way of doing it. Okay, so I'll call the vote. Is there anyone against that?

59:52That's also unanimous. So that's great

59:57Um, I believe we've captured now

1:00:02So I kind of go to staff and to clerks. We've captured those those main pieces that have flown from committee of the whole

1:00:08perfect now

1:00:10What was on page

1:00:12Seven of the report. I already had a request from councillor Busuttil that would love to move the advocacy pieces

1:00:21around bill 60

1:00:24Guller would you like to second because I know you were just talking about it. Okay

1:00:28Yep, they'll come up on the screen. Yep

1:00:31And look everybody. I'll just talk as they come up on this. Oh, no, it's not. Yeah, I could talk but it's your it's your motion

1:00:37Did you want to say something or would you like me to jump in?

1:00:40If I could you go for it and thank you the mirror and I were chatting about this at the time

1:00:45So this is an advocacy for

1:00:49encouraging

1:00:51asking for broader public

1:00:53provincial action

1:00:54To address renovictions and other tenants rights issues and we all know what happened with bill 60, but it's still

1:01:02Yes, just yesterday still worthwhile to present this

1:01:05As a motion going forward. So thank you for that to the staff and then to council

1:01:12Thank you. And look some people might argue. Well, why are we doing this? It just passed yesterday

1:01:17Right, but just remember, you know, there's always a process with this stuff, right? Yes, it passed, but it's got to go through

1:01:24Regulations, it's got to get royal royal sent, etc

1:01:27So there's always an opportunity here to try to actually have a little bit of advocacy even though something might have just passed the day before

1:01:34So is there any questions on these advocacy pieces or may I call the vote on that? Okay, kateen go ahead

1:01:42Thank you through you, mr. Mayor. I just wanted to agree with you and councillor boost till that there is value in bringing these things forward

1:01:52We're representatives of our community and regardless of whether or not we think we're going to be listened to

1:01:59We should still speak out about these issues because they are important to those we do represent. Thank you

1:02:07Thank you councillor kateen

1:02:10With that i'm going to call. Oh, sorry gibson. Go ahead. Thank you. Yeah, I

1:02:15fine

1:02:16comment

1:02:17fine everyone

1:02:19um, it's just uh

1:02:22Like there's a reason why some of us chose municipal politics

1:02:26This is not it. This is provincial. This is stuff that uh, no, we can weigh in on but

1:02:32We're always weighing in so I

1:02:36I would just I'm gonna I wish I was I wish absentia was an option here because I

1:02:42I find this to be

1:02:44Energy that I'd rather spend on other things but um, because there's lots of bills that I would love to support and but if I bring them to this council

1:02:49They won't support them. They won't support calls to support. So I just

1:02:53Anyway, it is what it is

1:02:56Thank you. Okay. No nuts noted. Thank you

1:02:59I'm gonna call the vote. Is anyone against these advocacy motions?

1:03:05Okay, nobody that's unanimous. Thank you very much

1:03:08Now just one second as I confer with my colleague to the right

1:03:12Everybody I think we're done that suite of policy changes

1:04:04Okay, so thank you very much

1:04:07to staff

1:04:09uh

1:04:11Delegations

1:04:13Community as well on those matters. So thank you very much

1:04:17Okay, we are moving along to our

1:04:23almost last one

1:04:26It is the advancing of the affordable housing on city owned properties