Statutory Public Meeting Report regarding proposed Official Plan and Zoning By-law Amendment applications submitted by UP Consulting Limited, on behalf of the owner… be received

9:48Onto the big item tonight under the public meeting to hear the applications and

9:55That first one is the public meeting report on

10:0026 to 40 Cardin Street and 27 to 39 Macdonnell Street to propose OPA and

10:06zoning bylaw

10:07amendment and

10:09First we have a presentation from Lindsay Solnatt. Yeah tea

10:14I always get that one wrong and if so if anybody just so everybody is aware. This is not a decision on this

10:23Application tonight. This one is we're here to get input on this application tonight, and then that will go back

10:30And counsel will give input and then that will go back to staff and come back at a later time with a recommendation

10:36So, thank you. Okay. Go ahead

10:41Good evening members of council staff and members of the public

10:44My name is Lindsay Sulataki and I'm going to be presenting the statutory public meeting for the proposed official plan and zoning bylaw amendment

10:53applications for 26 to 40 Cardin Street and

10:5627 to 39 Macdonnell Street

10:58So tonight is the statutory public meeting and no decisions will be made on the application tonight

11:04The application is for an official plan and zoning bylaw amendment

11:09From up consulting limited on behalf of the owner skyline retail real estate holdings limited to permit the development of one 14-story building containing

11:19120 residential units and

11:22595 square meters of grand floor commercial space

11:25The subject lands have frontage on both Cardin Street and Macdonnell Street and are located mid block between Wyndham Street North and Wilson Street

11:37The subject lands are approximately

11:401055 square meters in size with approximately 31.8 meters of frontage along Macdonnell Street and Cardin Street

11:48The subject lands are currently developed with a two-story red brick office commercial building constructed in the 1950s and

11:55The existing building extends fully to all lot lines and has been internally subdivided into multiple commercial and office units

12:03The applicant is proposing one 14-story mixed-use building and total 120 residential units are proposed

12:15In addition to 595 square meters of grand floor commercial space

12:20The development contemplates a three-story podium extending to the front rear and interior side yards

12:25The tower portion which is the building above the fourth floor is positioned six meters from the Cardin Street front facade

12:31Of the podium and three meters from the Macdonnell Street podium facade

12:36The proposed development contemplates a large commercial unit which extends the entirety of the Cardin Street facade and the western half of the

12:43Macdonnell Street facing facade

12:45A series of four entrances are proposed off of Cardin Street and

12:51Two are proposed off of Macdonnell Street one of which will lead to the main lobby of the residential component of the building and

12:58The grand floor plan shows the commercial unit as a single unit

13:01However, it is anticipated that this unit can be divided based on the needs of future commercial tenants

13:07So I've just pulled out the proposed conceptual site plan and I won't go into too much detail because I know the applicant is gonna be speaking more to

13:17the development and concept plan

13:20The subject lands are designated as mixed use one in the downtown secondary plan

13:32This designation is intended to accommodate a broad a broad range of uses

13:39Remissible uses within this designation include retail and service uses including restaurants and personal service uses

13:45multiple unit residential buildings which includes apartments and townhouses

13:49live work uses office uses

13:52Entertainment and commercial recreation uses common community service and facility uses and

14:02Scheduled D of the downtown secondary plan shows the subject lands

14:06Which is the maximum and minimum building heights of the downtown secondary plan

14:10identifies the subject lands as having a minimum height of three stories and a maximum height of six stories and

14:19The applicant has applied for a proposed official plan amendment

14:23To add a site-specific policy to the downtown secondary plan for the subject lands that would permit a maximum building height of 14 stories

14:31The subject lands are zoned site-specific downtown according to the 2023 zoning bylaw as amended

14:40the purpose of the proposed zoning bylaw amendment is to

14:48Is to establish site-specific zoning regulations in the zoning bylaw through a site-specific downtown one zone that proposes the following

14:56specialized regulations

14:58to permit a maximum building height of 14 stories whereas

15:03The current zoning permits a maximum height of between three and six stories

15:08To permit a minimum interior side yard of two meters for the building above the fourth floor

15:13Whereas the zoning bylaw requires a minimum tower setback of six meters from the side lot lines and to permit a minimum

15:20Step back of three meters from the building above the fourth floor from the Macdonnell Frennidge

15:25Whereas the zoning bylaw currently requires a step back of six meters from for all portions of the building above the force the fourth story

15:32I just want to note that the applicants submission materials include a site-specific zoning regulation to allow for no off-street parking for the

15:40120 residential units

15:42However, due to recent provincial changes made through bill 185 which received royal assent on June 6th

15:482024

15:49Off-street parking is no longer required for the subject lands as they are located within a major transit station area

15:55So a site-specific parking exemption is not required for this site

15:59So that concludes my presentation if there are any members of the public who have

16:17Provided comments or who are delegating tonight. You will be added to the interested parties list

16:22But if there's anybody else watching from home if you can provide your name and contact information to planning at wealth dot CA that way you can

16:30Be kept informed of future revisions or updates or when a decision report will be brought forward to council

16:36at this time staff are

16:39reviewing the application and all the supporting documents that were submitted in support of the application and once we have reviewed all of the

16:47Documents and all the issues that are raised tonight or through written correspondence are addressed

16:53We will be bringing forward a recommendation report to be considered at a future council meeting

16:59So if there are any questions, I'd be happy to answer them at this time

17:04Thank You Lindsay. I think we're gonna go like as with tradition straight to the delegations and then we'll have there might be more

17:11Questions for you or other ones that might come up during the during the delegations

17:17So the first

17:19Delegation tonight is David Gail Brath from up consulting and Gregory Jones from Skyline. You're in the wings

17:31So mr. Galbraith you have up to 10 minutes. There'll be a warning at the last 30 seconds point and so

17:39Or it's yours

17:40Okay, good evening members of council. My name is Dave Galbraith. I'm the principal planner and

17:46President of up consulting here tonight on behalf of Skyline holdings. I'm joined by

17:51Greg Jones and Craig Leslie of Skyline will be speaking to the application following my delegation

17:56The purpose of the meeting today is to formally introduce counsel in the public to the proposed official plan and zone change application

18:04To seek direction from council to staff to prepare a recommendation report with regards to the proposal

18:10We've reviewed in advance of this meeting tonight many of the thoughtful comments that have been prepared by members of the public in the business community

18:17And we look forward to meeting with staff following tonight's meeting to discuss these comments as well as technical comments from

18:24internal departments and agencies

18:26Next slide, please

18:29Or is it on here green button? Oh, okay

18:35So I've prepared a brief presentation tonight which speaks to the background of the site context the proposed development and the required planning

18:42Applications and I'll provide a more detailed walkthrough of the proposed site plan and architectural plans that have been submitted as part of the application

18:50Following my delegation mr. Greg Jones

18:52Will be providing

18:54presentation from Skyline and following this we'd be happy to respond to any questions that you may have

18:59So the subject properties municipally known as 26 to 40 Cardin Street

19:11Which currently came contain two-story mix

19:14mixed development with commercial upgrade and some office spaces as well

19:18The applicants proposing to redevelop the site to contain a 14-story mixed-use building containing approximately

19:246,000 square feet of that grade retail space with 120 residential units above in a tour in order to facilitate

19:31The proposed development an official plan and zone change application have been submitted to the city

19:36Which is the basis for the meeting tonight

19:40The next two sides slides showed the location of the property within the downtown area of the city of Guelph

19:47the properties directly

19:49Across the street from City Hall as you're well aware

19:52And Market Square and located mid-block between Cardin and Mackinac streets

19:58The site is located in close proximity to the city's main transportation hub providing convenient access to inner-city bus and

20:05Train services as well as extensive local bus service as well

20:09This slide shows a aerial perspective of the site within the context of downtown

20:15You can see the Basilica to the right of this the square

20:19And then the arena in the bottom left corner of the site as

20:26Lindsay discussed in her presentation the subject property is located within the downtown second area of the city of Guelph and is designated

20:34mixed-use one and similarly zoned D1 by the city's zoning bylaw

20:39Collectively the official plan and the zoning bylaw

20:42Allow for a range and mix of uses on the site up to a maximum height of six stories currently

20:47In addition to the local planning controls that apply to the site

20:51The use of the site is guided by a range of provincial plans and legislation

20:55Including the planning act and the recently approved provincial planning statement

21:00The planning statement which was replacement for the PPS and growth plan and what will take effect in mid-October

21:07identifies the site within the downtown area of the city of Guelph as a major transit station area and

21:12Establishes a density density target for this area of 150 people in jobs per hectare

21:17As you're certainly aware by way of a modification last year

21:21The province implemented a maximum permitted height of 23 stories for much of the downtown

21:26Which they later later resented as a result of this I understand that staff are currently working on a heightened density study for the downtown area

21:34So the next few slides go over the development proposal in a bit more detail as previously indicated the proposal

21:43Contemplates a 14 story mixed use building containing approximately 6,000 square feet of retail space and 120 purpose-built rental housing units

21:52I wanted to flag that of these units 45 are proposed as either two or three bedroom suites with the remainder being one or a

21:59One bedroom or studio units this broad range of unit sizes are suitable to

22:05Various potential tenants including families couples students and individuals

22:10The proposed development does not contemplate any vehicular parking spaces given its location within the downtown and access to transit

22:17But to offset park parking demands the proposal contemplates extensive bike parking and various other transportation demand management measures

22:25Development also contains indoor and outdoor amenity spaces

22:29As well as balconies for the majority of units

22:32So this slide here shows the proposed site plan as you can see the building

22:39At the base levels extends to all property lines with Macdonnell on the north and Cardin on the south

22:46With the tower above the third story raising to 14 stories you can see in the top right and bottom left corners. There is some architectural details and recessing of the building as the building gets taller

23:03In the top right corner of the site is a loading space that's been proposed

23:08and the purpose of the space is

23:11To service both the commercial units as well as the residential function of the site for garbage collection mail deliveries moving and deliveries to the commercial unit

23:20The majority of the ground floor is proposed to be used for commercial purposes

23:24Offering again approximately 6,000 square feet

23:27This could be occupied by a single tenant such as a grocer or a pharmacy or

23:32Subdivided internally to allow for its use by several tenants

23:36This slide here shows typical floor plans for the proposed residential levels and this is from the fourth

23:44Fourth story and up the left image shows

23:47The fourth floor and the the units that are in blue would be amenity space and they would open up into a rooftop terrace that would overlook

23:59Market square to the south

24:00These floor plans also show the range of unit sizes that are contemplated by the development including two three

24:07M1 bedroom suites

24:09This image shows a proposed rendering of the building

24:15In its current context the base levels of the development have been designed to reinforce the street edge and include building materials such as stone

24:22Which are indicative of the downtown area while still providing a high degree of visibility into the commercial units a mix of modern and traditional

24:30Building materials are contemplated to be incorporated into the design of the building in order to minimize the massing and shadow impacts of the development itself

24:39The development has been designed to be quite compact with a typical tower floor area of about

24:44650 square meters and as a point of reference many of the towers that you're seeing

24:50Within Guelph or Kitchener Waterloo generally have a tower footprint of 900 and above square meters

24:59A series of step backs have been provided with the building as well

25:03So from Cardin Street the tower set back six meters from the front lot line and three meters from the Macdonnell side

25:10And then there you can see the articulation of the top portion of the tower above the 12th levels

25:16This this image here shows a rendering of the building superimposed on the Macdonnell frontage

25:25With the Basilica and the in the background

25:27I did want to note that the site is not located within a protected view corridor of the Basilica itself

25:33And as shown in this image the views of the Basilica will be maintained along Macdonnell Street

25:39With the building in the periphery

25:42This rendering here shows the south side again of the proposed development

25:49From Market Square with the Basilica in the background

25:53So in order to facilitate the proposed development an official plan amendment and corresponding zone change application have been submitted

26:00And the basis for these applications is to permit the proposed building height of 14 stories and to allow for site specific relief from the bylaw

26:08That currently applies to the site and specifically that would be to allow for a floor space ratio of nine and a half and to

26:16Permit certain set set back reliefs from both the Macdonnell and the side lot lines

26:23As Lindsay had noted as a result of recent planning Act changes brought about by bill 185 parking is no longer required

26:31within major transit station areas and

26:35As such no relief from the zoning bylaw is required to permit the zero parking rate

26:42So at this point I'd like to thank you again for the opportunity to delegate tonight

26:46And for those who have taken the time to delegate to planning committee today as well

26:50I'd like to hand things off to mr. Greg Jones from skyline and following that we would be happy to respond to

26:56Any questions that you might have okay, so you want to wait for questions until you're both I think that would make the most sense

27:02Yeah, okay. Thank you

27:05Okay, mr. Mr. Jones from skyline. Thank you

27:11Wow that was a great

27:13planning

27:14Delegation just as a procedural matter

27:18Should I address you as your worship or chairperson of the the meeting?

27:23Pardon madam chair is fine excellent. Thank you

27:26Madam chairman. My name is Greg Jones

27:29Block has started

27:31I'm the president of sky dev. I'm part of the skyline group of companies

27:34I hold an MBA in finance and a masters of planning and I've developed housing across communities in Canada

27:42Rick I recently oversaw the completion of 624 rental apartments and this year we put shovels in the ground

27:49For over 1,100 rentals in Berry Norfolk County, Belleville and Collingwood

27:56Skyline continues to invest in rental housing across the country during a housing crisis

28:03In an effort to invest more in wealth

28:05It's our pleasure to present this zoning amendment proposal to you today

28:10To change from a mixed-use zone to a mixed-use zone with more rental housing

28:15more much needed rental housing

28:18We're a rental housing provider that believes that communities we serve are the backbone of our success

28:27the pandemic

28:29Exasperated pre-existing inequities and challenge government at resources at times when we need governments to do more

28:36I think we're coming out of it the city of Guelph

28:39That's extremely low vacancy rates of less than 1.3 percent for rentals

28:45It speaks to the critical housing supply issue

28:48Which translated?

28:50Like in fact the the city of Guelph as the lowest vacancy rates in the province one of them for years

28:57I think Kingston's worse

29:00We

29:01Build rental housing that is attainable for the average person that lives and works in the community

29:07With our mindset to implement sustainable technologies such as solar panels

29:12High efficiency fixtures and even rooftop beehives

29:15We have one at our head office and we make honey for our residents and and and others

29:21With a mix of apartment sizes and no down payment required for rentals

29:27Our investment in a community represents new supply to serve a critical need of housing deemed essential both

29:35provincially and nationally

29:38Skyline invests in and continues to invest a great deal in Guelph and Wellington County where the biggest taxpayer downtown

29:45We've provided a one point five million dollar community bond to Habitat for Humanity

29:51developing

29:5332 unit affordable townhome development

29:56We donated millions of dollars in time to serve as the catalyst for the new Kindle supportive housing development

30:03That's 32 affordable apartments with 24-hour wraparound

30:07Support services we rallied the community

30:10Private the public

30:12nonprofit sectors to do our part to invest in affordable housing in this city

30:17So the proposal before you proposes a range of rental housing options for a range of incomes. We have

30:24120 apartments a mix of three bedrooms two bedrooms one bedrooms one plus den and studio apartments

30:31And I'll submit to you as a business owner and operator downtown Guelph that we desperately need more housing for young people

30:38People who work and go to school in Guelph have to commute outside of the city to find a home

30:44Make no mistake in filling of housing is a generational war with residents in their single-family homes

30:52Resisting investment in urban apartment living because it's not in keeping with their idea of a neighborhood

30:58My job is to be the voice of those young people who need a home

31:02Who are not in the ward yet and we prefer housing in the downtown to walk bike and take transit

31:09In short, we do target demographics of young people that need homes

31:14However, these rentals are available for anyone who qualifies. It's not a student dormitory

31:19I know there's been some media saying it's a student residence. It's rental apartments

31:26Skyline has a vision for downtown

31:29We want more people working living studying visiting and shopping and

31:35We hope and we know it will bring safety

31:39Prosperance prosperity and a vibrancy to retailers that everybody wants

31:45To that end we recently attracted the investment of a new connoisseur campus to downtown Guelph

31:53So it should not be a surprise that we're also

31:56Aiming to attract investment in housing for over 5,000 students coming to the downtown in the next five years

32:03So

32:05They're what like just just want to address some of the community letters and

32:11Comments and questions and hopefully we can get some more and respond to them directly today

32:16There was a voluntary community meeting in October of last year and from the report I see there's additional public input to the consider

32:24Hopefully I can answer some of the points received today

32:29So said earlier the rental housing will be made available to anyone who qualifies

32:34Student housing is in desperate need. However in building we are building traditional rental housing

32:40We don't have the when we're building that we don't have the

32:44Legal right to discriminate in that way. It's it's a rental apartment

32:50The next point is when I say anyone to qualify I should say that anyone that's qualified that doesn't require a vehicle

32:57We are providing ample bike parking instead and

33:01Being within meters of Guelph Central Transit hub with local buses and regional trains available

33:10We

33:13Permitted as a right on under the province

33:15but we expect visitors and residents of the retailer and the retail space and the residential space

33:23To to be able to use the parking in the area with the underlie underutilized market square next door

33:31Being downtown Guelph the streetscape and facade is of the utmost importance to us

33:36The package for you is intentionally vague such that a thorough review of design through site plan control can be completed

33:44I should say we do look at creating affordable housing within our developments

33:51We're just not in the position to do so until

33:54after site plan approval when we can see what available

33:59Financing and subsidies are available case in point. We just broke ground last week on

34:05541 rental apartments in the city of Berry

34:09It's a 25 and 27 story tower on the 400. You'll see it going up if you're ever heading that way and

34:15We're doing up to 10% affordable and not one because the city and CMHC have all kind of rallied behind it

34:22But you know to commit to that years in advance. We don't know what programs will be available then so it's not

34:29Proposed as part of the zoning amendment

34:34In my colleague said that the with respect to height the proposal does not fall with any

34:41Within any of the zoning view corridors of the church

34:45The province used to have a 23 story height limit on this property for a short time

34:49But I understand it's a under review for a downtown height study

34:54So there's some flexibility there to work on what is the appropriate height for this property and and Cardin Street in Mectano

35:01We are working with the DGB a to beautify the facade in the in the near term while we work through site plan approval

35:10to provide

35:13Some storefront windows, but we are open to providing shark turn tendencies

35:17I think one of the letters spoke to the heartburn. We were trying to avoid and

35:23That's purely we don't want to spend a whole bunch of money

35:27renovating a space just to rip it down so like if we can find some pop-up shops that

35:32That don't require a significant investment in their space. We can work with the DGB a on that

35:40I mean construction of anything in a built neighborhood will be disruptive

35:44It's in everyone's interest to build as quickly as possible within the boy noise by law constraints

35:49there was a comment to

35:57Requesting that we ensure our built form accommodates the future development potential of a neighboring property to the east

36:04Which we would like to review with staff in our neighbor before we come back to council

36:09And amenities. I mean we have 64

36:12100 square feet of new retail which is designed to accommodate essential retailers

36:173600 square feet of indoor outdoor space for us an enjoyment

36:22I would say

36:24To to yourselves in the public scones before you tonight proposing rental housing during a housing crisis for the people Guelph

36:32Where we have a track record of owning managing and operating

36:37apartments in the city and we

36:40Appreciate the opportunity to engage the council in public. It would be my pleasure to respond to any owner related questions

36:48And David from up consultant is available for any planning related questions

36:55Okay, thank you. Thank you, Mr. Jones. So are there any questions from council to either one

37:03Of the delegates that spoke tonight

37:06counselor all

37:08Thank you very much chair downer

37:11To both of the presenters I

37:15Appreciate you coming before us a couple of questions that that come up as a consequence of both the wind them

37:21Fountain street property and other properties throughout Ontario that are having challenges getting built is what is projected time frame for this?

37:29I realize I recognize that construction is seriously challenged by both interest rates and and workforce. So if you could please

37:37outline

37:39Completion date that I might have just projected through the chair to the counselor

37:48We would

37:50Seek to start immediately following site plan approval. We'd submit hermits the duration of site plan approval

37:58but it depends

38:01Expecting the downtown servicing to be a factor and the completion of some of the work there

38:07I need to defer to planning staff on on the duration of time to

38:12Get approval and get site plan approval, but our intent would be to start and build and complete immediately after

38:19A building of the size typically takes 18 months of construction. Thank you. I thought I appreciate you raising the downtown servicing

38:27I'll bring that up. You made reference to some flexibility

38:32Regarding height. I was wondering if you could clarify so it's a little more specific

38:35Through the chair the the proposal before you is 14 stories

38:43I mean, I think it's appropriate

38:46Building much taller buildings elsewhere

38:49I would say that we're we would like to work with the neighbors students ensure that the party wall conditions

38:58Doesn't affect the developability of their property

39:03Heights

39:04Kind of need to work with planning staff on to make sure it's in keeping of what what they believe the future of downtown holds

39:12I've seen odium buildings

39:15All the 14 stories I I would submit to you that it's not a tower. It's more of a

39:22odium building in the downtown streetscape, but

39:26It appears as such in the renderings and until other people build it all appear that way

39:32Thank you. The last point that I have madam chair through you is

39:37You made reference to this is not student housing and yet

39:40What I did notice on the city website that it was referred to as student housing and I was wondering if we just have that clarified

39:47Through the chair. I I we definitely target demographics

39:54We think we think there'll be thousands of students over the next five years and there's definitely a demand there

40:00That's that I can't find I

40:02Can't find housing from my own employees right now. So young professionals are a huge demand as well

40:08This is typical rental housing. There is no common kitchen each unit has its own kitchen

40:14These are rental apartments. We don't have the right to discriminate based on age or or where they study or where they work

40:21Just to follow up. So what I understand it's not specifically student housing

40:24There could potentially be many students living in there, but it's a home for whomever

40:31The chairs, that's correct. It's rental housing available for those who need it. Thank you

40:37Hey, we have counselor class and next and then counselor Caitlyn and counselor roller

40:44And counselor rock

40:48Yes through you madam chair to the delegate

40:51I just a couple of my questions were answered by a counselor alt

40:57But I just I did want to ask with regard to I'm sorry, I'm just looking up notes

41:04With regard to the commercial space it looks like it's currently

41:10Just a general space. Well that will you be just working with whoever comes your way to develop those spaces?

41:17Or do you have a specific layout with number of units already in mind?

41:23through madam chair

41:26Just to clarify you're talking about the new building not the existing building correct

41:32Yes in the new in the new building

41:35so

41:37Through the chair the the 6400 square feet of retail space is designed to be

41:44Attractive to essentials based retail our retail reed is focused on

41:50breads and meds and

41:54Grocery and pharmacy and and hair cutters and and things that are essential

41:59I would submit that during the pandemic 95% of our retail space is open

42:06our we very much focus secondary and tertiary markets to

42:12Provide essentials retail to those markets and to the people that live there

42:20Okay, so but there's not a current layout in mind like it's going to be six units. You'll just work with whoever comes your way

42:27Through madam chairman

42:30That's correct. It's it's open. We can introduce party walls demising walls

42:35We have a number of doors set up. We need to be flexible to accommodate one amazing retailer or multiple retailers. It's

42:45It's about getting a great retailer in Guelph and we've had a few great ones in the property previously and we're

42:52We're excited to bring new space to downtown Guelph

42:58Is that it council cousin?

43:06Just just to more through you madam chair, sorry, I just couldn't hit the mute button correctly

43:11I just I wanted to ask a general question with regard to

43:15Sky Dev or Skylines experience with downtown developments just because this is a bit of a specialized area. It's not in

43:23more of a suburban residential area and it's not in a commercial

43:27complex with

43:29Retailers like pharmacies or grocery stores. It's typically mom-and-pop independent businesses and I just I wanted to understand a little bit

43:36Your experience with working in sort of sensitive areas like downtown

43:41And and and just how how maybe you could provide a few examples as well

43:46Just because I tried to look on your website, but I couldn't I couldn't see too much of that

43:49Do you madam chair chair persons apologies?

43:57Madam chair the

44:00Skylines experience working in a downtown core is limited we own a number of assets downtown

44:07Development is new for us. We've been investing in new development over the last five to ten years

44:12I've done a bunch of downtown properties in my career and I

44:18think the most important thing is working with neighbors and having line lines of communication and and

44:24Making sure that we're not disrupting people more than we need to and following all local bylaws and

44:30Really, I just hand out my card with my cell phone number so that anybody can call it any time of day. That's that's my

44:37my ammo

44:40We're sensitive to infilling and we know what it means and I

44:44think some of the the comments were

44:48Structural related and good news is we're not digging down and building parking and undermining people's foundation

44:54So there won't be as much disruption there and it should be quite quick because there's not a lot of underground work

45:03Our experience is not

45:05extensive and you are correct in asking that most of our developments are

45:12In filling entire properties not zero lot land conditions

45:15Okay, thank you. I appreciate you you saying that because I hope it also means then

45:23Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's some flexibility to working with the community as well to build something that is

45:31Fits that the area as well because it is it is it would significantly change our our landscape downtown

45:39And you know while I agree that certainly we need we definitely need residential downtown

45:45And I think a many people support that I just also think that there's a balance to be struck between

45:53finding an a building that is architecturally

45:57Significant that fits with our downtown that provides that important residential and commercial

46:02Class and it's question times not opinion time

46:06Okay, sorry

46:08My question then is I mean and and I I will clarify then

46:13Will you be open to working with the community after this meeting more in-depth?

46:22Do madam chair the counselor open to working with

46:27immediate neighbors the DGB a

46:30Council and staff to make sure the development is in keeping with

46:35the vision for Guelph

46:39We are trying to

46:40Really sensitive to the street wall and in that three-story appearance and once you step back and start start building higher than that

46:48You know your your pedestrian realm is really set and so like that first three stories really matters and

46:53The party wall conditions with neighbors matters and we want to talk about that more

46:58but you know whether your eight stories or 20 stories it's

47:04From a pedestrian realm standpoint

47:06It's what the street wall that really matters from a design perspective, but I'm not the urban designer. I'll let David

47:13Yeah, certainly yeah, there's definitely an openness and we've already teed up some meetings with city staff to discuss some of these items

47:20And certainly there's an openness there with the architectural group as well and the architect for this file has a lot of experience working in similar contexts

47:30I've got multiple projects with them in downtown Kitchener right now. They've done quite a few in Kingston

47:37dealing with similar heritage

47:41Elements and and trying to be tasteful to

47:45Tasteful to the surrounding context and existing conditions of the neighborhood. So certainly there's a willingness there and a commitment to do so

47:52Okay, thank you. Thank you. Okay, counselor

47:56Kateen

47:57Thank you through you madam chair

48:00I was wondering how many units are going to be accessible for wheelchair users

48:05through you madam chair

48:12the 15% of units are required by Ontario building code and

48:17That's what's intended at this point in time until we get further along site plan and

48:25Building permit it'll stay at what's required by code at the zoning stage

48:32Yeah, through you madam chair

48:34In addition to that all common spaces will be barrier free accessible as well the the commercial spaces right now

48:42There's actually some grade changes at the base of the the building for the neighborhood meeting. We actually had to have like a portable

48:50Ramp outside which impedes the you know the sidewalk and things like that

48:54So certainly commitment to making all of the commercial units

48:58Barrier free as well. And as Greg said 15% is the bare minimum

49:02But certainly through this proposal there's there's a willingness there to look at accessibility but further as well

49:11Thank you through the chair

49:14Because we have the 15% mandate

49:17Why would we not be looking towards the similar amount of parking spaces?

49:23through the through the chair to the counselor

49:32I don't fully understand the question people that have a wheelchair or have physical disabilities don't necessarily need a car either

49:40So you're yes, not all do but when you often need access to doctors and we don't necessarily have all of those doctors and well then it's

49:52Typically folks who are wheelchair users often do have cars and we have limited accessible parking in the downtown

50:01My next question

50:04So I heard you say that the design

50:08You're gonna be talking about

50:10Maybe altering it because of a request from the neighbor at the east

50:16Because they might want to raise their height at some time

50:19Why not for both sides?

50:21Through the through the chair

50:27So the site is a tight site. There's typical dimensions that

50:32That work for apartment buildings and in this case we are we have a pretty small footprint as well

50:40the I believe the comment with with regards to the neighbor to the east as

50:45Currently proposed the podium is three stories kind of uniform and if you look at or look outside

50:51I guess at at the existing conditions the the building to the east is a four-story building

50:58The the height we landed at for the three-story podium came from our heritage consultant and their recommendations just looking at the

51:07historic

51:08conditions of the site predating the existing 1950s building which was a three-story building

51:12So that was kind of the design intent there was to bring back the streetscape that existed

51:18pre-1950s

51:20but the the comment from the the the neighbor to the east was a was a very good comment because there is a

51:26That's a somewhat awkward condition between the base of the tower at where the podium starts to that building where

51:33Their building extends to four stories and you know the terrace levels at three stories

51:38So we're certainly going to look at those comments in more detail

51:42We'll also consider

51:44You know the broader context and more comments as they come in but I believe that's where that comment was coming from

51:49Great. Thank you very much

51:53Okay, thank you Councillor Goller

51:57Thank you through your chair downer to the delegates. Thank you for your presentation

52:02I wanted to go back to your mention of the the buildings your

52:10That are under Wayne Berry and

52:12You you mentioned that you had actually managed to build some affordable housing there. Could you

52:19Restate that please

52:21Yes through the chair

52:24We started construction on

52:26541 rental apartments

52:29It's part of a larger development of 921 28 rental apartments

52:34We start with market rentals and we look at programs. We have CMHC funding

52:40We're a select and the city has a reserve of ten million dollars and their

52:46They're funding year by year to try to get up to 10% of the

52:51differential in value to maintain a 25 year affordability level according to the provinces stated rents for affordable rentals

53:01So I say up to 10% because we don't have it yet

53:05The decision will be at the end of the month, but we've proposed up to 10% and so we'll bring

53:1154 new affordable rentals to that to that city within the next few years

53:18It'll probably take 30 months to build but it's coming and it's something we've applied for to fund and build

53:26It's economics at the end of the day. It's attracting investments to a city and

53:32We're excited about that particular project, but you know, we're trying to invest in rental housing all over the province and

53:39Well, sir hometown would love to be able to invest here

53:43Thank you for that. I think that shows a good track record

53:47and and I'm hearing from many of my constituents that they're in favor of the density and

53:54the rental units, but the concern is the impact on on the change to downtown and I've heard from many people that they're concerned that such a

54:04Drastic change would actually harm the downtown now

54:08Do you have experience in other downtown's where where you have been the first building to go higher to to this degree?

54:15You know, I think there's there's a certain level of concern that it will it will change the downtown for the worse

54:22And then the historic views down there main streets will be changed to the point that are no longer attractive

54:30You know comment on those concerns

54:34I'm through the to the chair like I

54:39commented earlier about people's perceived notion of what the character is of the city and

54:45perhaps heights not to their liking but

54:49these heights are not within a protected view corridor

54:54Visual appeal aside where we're investing in housing with people living working and shopping downtown

55:00So anything that's an economic benefit

55:03I used to work for Cadillac Fairview and their entire development strategy is to get more people around their malls

55:10There's a reason Eaton Center and Pacific Center are the most valuable malls in Canada is because there's hotels office

55:18Residences people working living going to school

55:23Around retail makes the retail valuable and makes the retail vibrant and more people

55:29Coming downtown living downtown going to a campus downtown whether that be from their apartment or by rail

55:37will add to the value of those retail spaces and

55:42And I think you'll see a vibrancy that we haven't seen in decades

55:47Okay, no, I I do appreciate that and

55:50The last point with regards to parking I understand that we can no longer require it

55:56But do you have experiences in other bills that you have done that have limited or no parking and whether they actually

56:03Get you know that they fill up and people are actually able to rent

56:07properly effectively

56:09Do the chair to the council? I'm really glad you asked that I mean in part asking a previous question of

56:15You know what what happens if somebody a doctor or somebody needs to pick up a person with a disability?

56:20I mean, there's there's the pickup in the area, but

56:24Generally parking in the downtown. There's an underutilized market square park aid to use the

56:33In terms of parking downtown and being able to rent to people I would submit to you that parking is the biggest cost of every development

56:42We're able to provide more affordable rentals outside of major cities because we can do surface parking in

56:49A downtown infill situation where there isn't available park aid and street parking

56:55We hope that visitors can can utilize that but

56:59We have no problem renting for a lower rent because we don't have to build the parking

57:07And

57:08Through the chair I'd add to that that there is a growing trend among municipalities in in Ontario

57:16particularly southwestern Ontario to move away from

57:18Parking requirements not just because of bill 185 which came from the province

57:23But you look at city of Kitchener through their growing together initiative. They've removed parking standards for all of their major transit station area zones

57:32Throughout the downtown and even beyond the downtown

57:35City of Cambridge and all of their core areas has waived parking for for several years. So it's really become a

57:44Parking is not necessarily

57:46viewed as a requirement, but it's

57:48It's it's what will the potential tenants and future occupants actually require and in this case

57:55We feel that there is a demand for this type of housing

57:58within the core

58:00And through the chair five Douglas our head office is a prime example of zero parking and there's a waiting list

58:08Okay, thank you for that. Those are all my questions chair. Thank you. Okay. Thank you

58:13So now we have Councillor Kerr on Councillor Russo tail and then council to you

58:19Thank you for you madam chair most of my questions addressed

58:27In terms of the number of bedrooms and my calculations are

58:33211 bedrooms and you noted

58:38Conversation that they're we adequate parking and parking garages

58:43with 211 bedrooms and the potential for those bedrooms being

58:48occupied by

58:50guests visitors and

58:54Offsing permits in our in our mark square garage

58:59would

59:00Potentially exceed the the capacity have in off-site down parking

59:05So, you know projects where your parking capacity

59:09You

59:12You're insufficient for the number of people who want a parking pass. What was your practice?

59:17Do you do you just tell some you're on your own or

59:22Do you rent parking spaces in on other that you then sell permits to your tenants?

59:31You know, obviously

59:33Recognize that there might be less demand and they'll be then they'll be buying in the demographic may not have cars

59:41Ron your voice is breaking up a bit

59:45I'm not quite sure what the problem is did have the delegates understood the question

59:52Madam chairman, I think I understood what was asked

59:55Is that okay? Councillor Kerr on if they attempt to ask based on what you've heard you say

1:00:02To the chair my references to the underutilized market square parkade and street parking are primarily for visitors of the retail and the residents

1:00:11Plain and simple those 211 bedrooms won't be offered a vehicle parking space

1:00:16They'll be offered a bicycle parking space

1:00:20If they don't have if they need a parking space in a vehicle they can rent some morals

1:00:28Okay, but that's an operational issue to my voice comes along better and turn off video and hope that that

1:00:37makes makes a positive in the

1:00:40deliveries

1:00:41My second question has to do with alkanese

1:00:46You know demographic even if half of the building is

1:00:50Resurrented by

1:00:52Conestoga River Seag wealth

1:00:55I know that residents buildings camps residents buildings

1:00:59Have have removed balconies knees. They've locked off both

1:01:03Bricked in balconies and no have the Balkans on any of their buildings. Are you?

1:01:09Are you married to tell can ease on all of these units or are balcony is something you would reconsider?

1:01:18Through madam chair

1:01:20This is just an illustrative rendering of what it could look like

1:01:24The actual design will be developed your site playing control including balconies

1:01:29We ask the architect to come up with a great rendering

1:01:34The streetscape the three-story height wall in relation to the neighbors the tower itself the configuration of balconies is all

1:01:42Handled your site playing control

1:01:46Thanks, I appreciate that

1:01:48Many of the questions we ask are also questions questions will ask to have to come back with the with the final report

1:01:55So that's one of the reasons I asked matters that are site plan

1:02:00One of the other

1:02:02Things I have maybe a site plan matter is could you please discuss all of the sustainability features that will make this building a net?

1:02:12Construction through the chair, I think I think the question was

1:02:20What sustainability measures are we doing to achieve net zero?

1:02:24I mean it depends on what people define net zero

1:02:27We're always striving to achieve net energy zero and our developments to

1:02:32Save tenants and ourselves and our investors money because it makes sense for the planet makes sense for the people that live there

1:02:39It makes sense for our investors

1:02:42True net zero is is something that is

1:02:47More carbon neutral and and you know we are our bigger plans have to do is skyline generally and skyline energy

1:02:54And the investment in solar and biogas

1:02:58We are we are the biggest biogas investor owner and operator in Canada. We're definitely the biggest in Ontario

1:03:07And we own solar assets across across the country as well

1:03:11so our long-term plans are to offset all of our portfolio to

1:03:17once the regulations allow for it allow for net metering between our

1:03:25sustainable energy technology and our

1:03:29portfolios of retail industrial and apartment

1:03:34At this point we haven't designed the building we don't know exactly what the mechanical systems are

1:03:40We hope to one day achieve net zero for our entire portfolio not just one development

1:03:48Mm-hmm. I think that I applaud the corporate goal to be a net zero corporate footprint

1:03:57affordability

1:03:59Also in monthly utility costs costs. I was wondering if there is the potential for solar rain water production

1:04:06heat pump heat pump of energy systems in this building or is site is

1:04:12Is the site and straight to having those technologies in this building that will mean that the rest

1:04:20living there will have

1:04:22minimal if no

1:04:25monthly utility costs

1:04:27Through madam chairman. I think the question was are we incorporating heat pumps solar to make sure there's zero utility costs for tenants

1:04:41The answers

1:04:43no

1:04:45There is a cost to energy and we just hope to provide it sustainably through solar

1:04:54Heat pumps or fan coils

1:04:58And without a district energy utility and Guelph it would be difficult to do

1:05:02heat pump it may be a fan coil or even a

1:05:07Hydronic source P-TAC we haven't designed the building yet and

1:05:13We do look at the most

1:05:16efficient and

1:05:18economical

1:05:21Mechanical system possible for our residents and our investors. It just hasn't been designed yet

1:05:28I appreciate and one final question and you present you present indicated that you have a kind of an open war you

1:05:35You engage with with the community around you and and neighborhood owners

1:05:42Have you had a consultation with your direct directors? Have you have you reached out to them already and had those conversations?

1:05:51the given the size and the impact of this

1:05:55development

1:05:58Madam chair

1:06:00Maybe asked the council to repeat

1:06:03Are you asking if we consult with the directly immediate neighbors? Yes, that's what she's asking

1:06:10Through the chair we held a public meeting

1:06:14We have not had meaningful consultation with all of our neighbors. I have had some with

1:06:21One of the direct neighbors

1:06:24I think the takeaway from this and the letters received is that we need to have more with them and make sure that they're they're able to

1:06:33invest in

1:06:35Non-profit office or housing in the future as well. That's those are all questions. Thank you. Great. Thank you counselor. Who's the job?

1:06:46Yes, thank you and through the chair. Thank you to the delegates. I have two questions

1:06:51The first one is about the bike storage. Thank you very much for including the bike storage

1:06:56Five kids in my family. My question is two fold. The first one is about

1:07:00Family bikes we called the bike to two and all the attachments that go behind it and accessible bikes

1:07:06You know, I have a good friend who has a bike that is quite wide for their accessibility

1:07:12Can you talk a little bit about or is it all you know kind of university students single, you know, 10 speed kind of bikes?

1:07:21Through the chair at this stage the plans have been they are fairly conceptual

1:07:27It's there's a space allocated for up to 120 bikes and I believe they've used just standard bike

1:07:33Sizing requirements because that's certainly something that we can take back

1:07:36And look at in more detail

1:07:38with our architect and our transportation consultant as well

1:07:43Thank you, especially if you're trying to have mixed

1:07:46Families and use and singles and so on in the unit. My second question is I'm just going to go straight to the crux of this

1:07:52I'm really struggling with 14 and I why 14 why not 24?

1:07:57Why not 10 and that's part of the correspondence as well and I wanted to pick on

1:08:03Mr. Jones your response to consular alts question

1:08:07You know, it's not a tower at 14 stories when there is other towers developed in the downtown and and at the same time

1:08:15you talked about the vision for Guelph and I guess I'm asking what is your vision for Guelph because

1:08:21That's you know, I'm struggling with that

1:08:26This is a chair

1:08:27to the counselor and I just that I mean

1:08:31Our vision for Guelph is is truly to see that vibrancy come back to the downtown to see

1:08:37Investment downtown to see a college invest in a campus downtown to invest in housing beside a train station

1:08:45to

1:08:46Really invest in infill and intensification whether that be us or others

1:08:51So when neighbors said we want some accommodations so we can develop that's great. We want that we want more investment downtown

1:09:00On the on the bike parking point. I think there is bylaws to engulf to allow for that

1:09:06Different types of bicycles and we definitely consider that at the site plan stage

1:09:11but the vision is truly to

1:09:14Be able to have homes for our employees downtown and have our employees feel safe

1:09:22I'll have a single person on my team that even can get a house or no

1:09:27There's one person that has a house in Guelph, but most of them are commuting because they can't afford to

1:09:34invest in Guelph a lot of the the

1:09:39new graduates and young people and students and

1:09:43Can't afford a single family home and they need

1:09:46unpacked urban design where they can take transit and walk to work

1:09:53Thank you, and just the final one

1:09:55I can appreciate that as I said five kids and one is self-sustaining

1:10:00Sustainable the rest I'm supporting so I completely understand that kind of a scenario

1:10:06My last question is about you referred. Are you referenced the height study that's happening downtown?

1:10:11Are you actively engaged in that with the city with the city staff?

1:10:15To the chair made some submissions and I'd say to you I'd be happy to make this building taller if asked

1:10:24Just

1:10:26Trying to be sensitive from previous applications. I was not well received so we're starting at 14 stores

1:10:32But if you want 20 we're happy to provide it

1:10:35And and just a clarification when I was saying 20 I wasn't suggesting 20

1:10:39I was wondering if there is a critical point a business case around the 14 that it has to be 14 in order to

1:10:46Mathematically work out or is there some some other numbers?

1:10:52to the two madam chair

1:10:54We simply just want to invest in rental housing. It's not a not a magic formula. We must have this we must have that

1:11:02Normally the formula has to do with parking and go

1:11:05There's a certain number of parking spaces before you hit bedrock and it's not viable at a certain point but

1:11:10No parking

1:11:12Could add more rental housing to the city of Guelph if that's desired

1:11:18if it's desired to

1:11:20Make slightly less because the downtown height study suggests something else or staff suggest something else

1:11:26It's something we'll consider because you know, I've seen 12-story podium walls have seen

1:11:32eight story 14 story

1:11:35Usually past 14 it becomes more of a tower proposal where you're building tall and narrow

1:11:42so we're trying to stay within the

1:11:46Streetscape podium type of design

1:11:49Thank you and through the chair. Thank you. Thank you. And finally

1:11:53councillor to

1:11:56Thank You madam chair. I

1:12:00Think I just want to preface my questions by addressing the heights

1:12:03I think of them the day like we understand we're in a major transit station area

1:12:07We have constant with college coming in and there are a lot of demands for us to

1:12:12increase density and for me like the logical places really along our

1:12:19Major transit station area where we have all day to a go coming in with that being said

1:12:24Can you just speak to how you were able to be intentional with coming up with 14 stories because

1:12:31You kind of mentioned in the planning justification report that like we have a

1:12:36Delinated stream block pattern. It's very unique and that kind of sets Guelph apart and allows for our view corridors

1:12:43So we were accentuated with respect to the church

1:12:47Like why 14 and how have you guys been able to play with the variation?

1:12:53Within their corner conditions as well to make it so that it's tasteful. I just want to get a better understanding from your standpoint

1:13:01To the to the chair

1:13:03My professional opinion is it could be taller. So we'll let the planning

1:13:08Urban design person say why 14

1:13:12Sure through the chair so as part of

1:13:16Actually, let me back it up a little bit when when when this process began

1:13:20So at the pre-consultation stage the province had come in with the 23 number and at that point

1:13:27The pre-consultation package that was submitted was for 14 stories and how how we arrived at that

1:13:32It was really a design exercise between the architect the heritage consultant myself as the planner and urban designer on the file

1:13:41Just to look at what kind of scale would be appropriate in this context

1:13:46so if we look at the existing planning framework for the

1:13:51Secondary plan area obviously the taller buildings are along the periphery, right? And I think that would be

1:13:57Not I don't know the direction of the height study at this point, but I think that will be maintained in this location though

1:14:04We we are not in a view corridor of the Basilica, but we have to be mindful that

1:14:11Along Macton L that is the most prominent view of the Basilica in the city

1:14:16So we you can see as the building has cutbacks and setbacks the desire there was to be

1:14:23Compatible right we're not trying to detract from the views of the Basilica itself

1:14:28We view this as a great opportunity mid-block condition where the views can still be maintained along Mac

1:14:34Dinelle and the height of the building this is where we settled as appropriate

1:14:39Because we felt it's not overbearing if you look back at that rendering that I showed along Mac Dinelle

1:14:44You can see that it frames the Basilica, but it's not it's not overbearing it is yes, it is taller

1:14:51that's

1:14:52Then the Basilica itself, but it's not it's not overbearing and we didn't want to to do that to the Basilica from that prominent view

1:15:00shit

1:15:01Thank you, and I'm just wondering as well and this could be a takeaway

1:15:05But like is there opportunity to work with staff in site plan to kind of play with the variation with terraces

1:15:12In the corner conditions and how that manipulates the shadow conditions because I think that's the way in which we can tell the story

1:15:19better for how we're being intentional with preserving

1:15:21the view corridors and accentuating

1:15:25Like the views to the church as well, right?

1:15:29Do the chair to the council I'm pretty sure

1:15:31Windmill's building 16 stories right beside a view corridor. So I think the height is short if anything

1:15:37But but generally speaking yes, we want to work with staff. We want to work with our neighbors

1:15:44happy to

1:15:45see if

1:15:46There's some kind of variation of massing that is better for

1:15:51The surrounding neighbors. I don't think we have a shadow problem

1:15:55Even if it was taller, okay. Thank you

1:16:00And thank you. That's all the questions then I see none other. Okay. Thank you very much

1:16:07We'll go on with the rest of the delegations

1:16:10So we have

1:16:12Anthony Bader is here

1:16:14Great. Thank you

1:16:16I'm on down and Lynn

1:16:18Rister in the woods

1:16:29Madam chair so best of it. You know, you've got ten minutes and then the warning at 30 seconds. I won't be long

1:16:35We are the I represent my family. We are the owners of 52 54 cardin and 47 to 53 Macknell

1:16:43Now we're actually in favor of this project

1:16:49We see the higher densities as as beneficial for this area

1:16:53especially with the infrastructure of the train station and

1:16:56all public transit and

1:16:58Being someone who I think I got rid of my car nine years ago and mainly use bicycles transit and

1:17:05U-Haul vans to do my business and my traveling between here and Toronto on a daily basis

1:17:11So I kind of live the lifestyle that the people that you are going to be attracted to this building or living

1:17:17Well, we'll live in the future

1:17:19the big concerns I have is the

1:17:26When the construction happens

1:17:28There is a tsunami that's going to happen because we also have a problem with Wyndham Street

1:17:33Probably happening at the same time, which is going to block me in

1:17:38There has to be considerations of Wilson Street direction

1:17:43There has to be considerations of the train bridge side. I guess it's the west side has to be open

1:17:51so that there'll be better access to the merchants which I am one as well and

1:17:57That we don't have another problem on Cardin Street because I already lived through whatever the seven years of construction out front here was

1:18:08The other thing is because there is no land with this property

1:18:12We're gonna have a problem with staging because if the staging is on Cardin Street

1:18:17It really really blocks and everything from planet being to the former Acre building or 10c if

1:18:25You do the staging on the other side as they did it in 10c when they constructed that

1:18:30Because that's still going to be an open corridor for the Wyndham Street

1:18:34Um

1:18:35During the Wyndham Street construction for buses that might be a better consideration

1:18:40And I think that has to be discussed with the neighbors on how it will impact their building or are my residents

1:18:47I do have residential and commercial tenants on both sides Mack Dennell and on Wyndham

1:18:53But overall the only other concern I might have is for our own future development of my building

1:19:01being that

1:19:03There would still be the consideration that

1:19:05Parking would not be an essential part of any plan that we might do in the future

1:19:11besides that

1:19:13We're pretty we're happy with this idea and we'd love to see it go further and

1:19:19That they get the maximum height possible so we don't have to take farmland and we don't have to create the infill is the new way and

1:19:26I think it's the only way that we can really actually get this downtown back to where it should be

1:19:32because

1:19:33It's really lacking in a lot of different ways and a lot of it is people living here and

1:19:40Also businesses being able to thrive here

1:19:44Besides that, um, thank you very much for your time

1:19:48Great. Thank you, Mr. Vader. Are there any questions of the delegation?

1:19:53I'll switch you

1:19:55Um, is it okay if I just make a quick clarification? Sure for yeah. Well the delegates on stage

1:20:01um

1:20:02So there's no parking minimums downtown anymore the province has lifted that so it shouldn't be an issue

1:20:07I just want to let you know that but I just want to make it very clear like

1:20:12Do you kind of represent yourself or some of your other?

1:20:15Um downtown merchants that you guys are inclined to explore more infill like this

1:20:21um, I represent myself because we have

1:20:25A very large interest on the street. We've owned the building for 21 years. We've been merchants down here for 25 years

1:20:31I'm very active in the merchant business

1:20:33Here like with the other businesses. I know most of the merchants. I'm one of the last standing

1:20:38There's few of us that have been here over 25 years

1:20:41so

1:20:43I think most merchants are are ready for this

1:20:46You know, we have our issues down here and being a merchant you you're like a social worker almost

1:20:51You know, you know the kids, you know what's going on

1:20:54You know the by-law we just passed was by the way a very good piece of work

1:20:57There's a lot of options that didn't didn't make it seem like a heartless thing

1:21:02And this is the kind of forward thinking that we have to have downtown if we want this to be a successful area

1:21:07Because we have something right now that other cities don't

1:21:12And just to follow up. Did you have any?

1:21:14uh

1:21:15Hesitations in the past with our height restrictions before or have you kind of had a change of opinion over the years?

1:21:22Actually, I'm a I I grew up in a real estate office. I'm a building appraiser by trade

1:21:28I kind of studied density on many different ways. I was an appraiser in downtown Toronto

1:21:33So I've always seen it as this

1:21:35I've always looked at the building that we have as as a project on one side

1:21:39We have kind of a heritage building on the other side. We don't but we do know that it's all bedrock

1:21:43So it's kind of going to be easy to create a good structure

1:21:47And even though we I have a 3000 square foot pad. I've always seen it as a development property with with higher density

1:21:55Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Are there any other questions?

1:22:01Seeing none

1:22:03Oh

1:22:07If I'm sorry if I made chair just to provide some clarification the councillors stated that

1:22:13Parking is exempt and you would no longer require parking

1:22:17Um, there is no development application. There's no timeline and just as reference

1:22:21We've had three different parking regulations this year because of provincial changes and legislations. So I am not comfortable

1:22:28Stating that publicly. So I just wanted to clarify that. Okay. Thank you. Kristen. That's our

1:22:33manager planning

1:22:37Giving us some clarity. Thank you very much. Okay

1:22:40Thank you. The next one in the

1:22:43is Lynn gris

1:22:46and we have

1:22:48Chris Grayson Gatto in the wings

1:23:17And I don't need to give you the drill what?

1:23:20You know what I know. I'm sorry. I missed that. What did you say?

1:23:24I don't need to tell you what the the 10 minutes and 30 seconds right? Thank you. Um

1:23:29Well, those of you don't know me. My name is Lynn gris. I am a resident of gulf. Um

1:23:35I don't have anything fancy to tell you. I'm not a planning person

1:23:40I'm not an architect

1:23:42I don't own any buildings. I just live in guave

1:23:46and have done for about the last

1:23:4914 years. Um

1:23:54I'm only going to talk about the things I know about so

1:23:58One of the things I do know about is the downtown secondary plan. Um

1:24:02Which came into force about four years ago and it was a hugely long and

1:24:08frankly, you know, I mean

1:24:10It's sometimes boring and really frustrating process. Um

1:24:16No one got what they wanted everything that they wanted out of it

1:24:21But everyone was heard

1:24:24And it was a made in wealth plan

1:24:28By everyone in wealth

1:24:30And I want to stress that it was a made in wealth plan not a provincial plan

1:24:36A made in wealth plan by the people of wealth and that's what they wanted and in this

1:24:43And in this particular plan a very small portion of the downtown was asked to keep

1:24:51The height level of buildings to six

1:24:55Six stories or below and I'm sure all of you are aware that you know around the downtown

1:25:02There's loads of big buildings, you know, we're not anti big building in wealth, you know, we've got lots and lots of them

1:25:08There are just some areas that we think might be better without it

1:25:13So I've already told you ahead of time that I have concerns about this. Okay

1:25:19One of the concerns I have is that this particular amendment is asking for about

1:25:27130 plus percent

1:25:29above

1:25:30The present height maximum maximum. It's not a little one. It's sort of like a really really big one

1:25:37The next thing I'd like to point out is that

1:25:41While I actually agree with skyline

1:25:44And they're the consultant person who's working for them who came on that there really is a housing crisis in wealth

1:25:53Not just wealth though. I mean it's all across the country

1:25:57There's a huge problem with housing

1:26:00And it's not any housing. It's a crisis with

1:26:04affordable housing

1:26:06Because there are so many people now who can't get into

1:26:10The buying market there and there in the rental market

1:26:13and I think I think it was the

1:26:16The skyline person who said we have a like a 1.3 percent vacancy rate in wealth and guess what a one bedroom

1:26:24apartment in wealth is

1:26:26A little over $2,000 and that's just one bedroom apartment. So we're not exactly a cheap place to live

1:26:34So why do I have a problem with this particular

1:26:39Set of buildings apart from the 14 stories? It's that that these units will not be protected

1:26:47by the rent control

1:26:50legislation that is in place for buildings built prior to 2016

1:26:56So when they're built

1:26:58Not only will the rent be

1:27:00What they decide the market will bear but they can also put the rent up year after year

1:27:06And I want to remind this council. I don't think I have to remind you already know this

1:27:10We have an affordable housing crisis. We have homeless

1:27:15In wealth. We are one of the richest nations in the world

1:27:20We're one of the richest provinces in the world

1:27:23And we still have a crisis in affordable housing for those who are poor

1:27:28Or of moderate income. So I would suggest with you due respect

1:27:34That council ask this particular developer who really seems to know what they're doing

1:27:40I mean as they said when I look them up and they're

1:27:43On their website, you know, they are involved in housing from Kelowna, bc to Halifax

1:27:50Nova Scotia. So they really know what they're doing about housing

1:27:53How about we sit down and say to them, you know what?

1:27:57Why do you want to build a 14 story?

1:28:00Building in a place that really, you know, is going to have a huge change to that area

1:28:06Why don't we help you find some land and space where you can build 14 or 16 or 18

1:28:13Or 20 story buildings because we absolutely need them in wealth

1:28:18Why do you have to choose this particular building in a very

1:28:22Tiny area when there is so much other space? I don't know what's available in wealth

1:28:26But the planning staff know and I'm assuming that skyline because they're in the real estate business would also know what's available

1:28:35So my last

1:28:37That's really all I have to say about that except for one thing which I'm going to note because

1:28:43It's quite personal and it's actually because of what I got from listening to skyline

1:28:50And to the consultant tonight

1:28:53The message I got from them was

1:28:56That if you're elderly or disabled

1:29:00Then downtown wealth is not a welcoming place for you

1:29:05You don't don't need parking. You've got to be able to ride a bike

1:29:10You know, you can't park anywhere because you're disabled or you can't walk very far

1:29:15So don't come downtown. I want to remind this council that we have a population of about 143,000 people

1:29:24Around 30% of them

1:29:28Are 65 years and plus

1:29:32I'm not clear why you don't think it's okay for us to be downtown

1:29:37I don't I'm not clear why you don't think it's okay to accommodate us so that we can still do it

1:29:42I personally as I told you in another meeting shot two to three times a week downtown. Why because I like it

1:29:50It's walkable. I can take my walker. I can actually be spending money on local stores

1:29:56Not on huge corporations. I don't have to go to

1:30:00Love laws. I can actually go to market fresh. Sorry. I'm not probably supposed to say that but

1:30:05Whatever they're local stores, right? So I can support local stores and I don't understand why you don't want us to continue to do that

1:30:14It felt very unwelcoming and I was very saddened by that

1:30:18And that's all I have to say and thank you for your time

1:30:22Thank you. Are there any questions of miss Chris councillor chou?

1:30:28Thank you, madam chair. I'm just

1:30:31I just want to clarify like I understand you have a big issue

1:30:35predominantly with the heights

1:30:37but they're going to be

1:30:39Allocating the whole ground floor to where it's commercial uses

1:30:43What's stopping you from going downtown with that in mind?

1:30:47Well, because there's going to be no parking is there as you said

1:30:51The parking and the disabled you have to go there by bike. So, you know, that lets me out, right?

1:30:57Or I guess I could spend a huge amount of money on a cab

1:31:00Going downtown to be dumped down there to shop and get another cab to go home

1:31:06No, it's not

1:31:07It's not to do with the side of the the height of the space. It's to do with accessibility for people like me

1:31:14You know, and there are lots of us. We are 30 plus percent of your population right now

1:31:20I know we're going to be dying off, but we're not dying yet

1:31:23Okay, and in the meantime, I'd like to be able to get to downtown in a way that's reasonable for me

1:31:28By not and I want to continue to feel welcomed and I do feel welcomed at the moment

1:31:33By all of the people that I shop at all those local stores

1:31:38I just want to clarify as well

1:31:40Just so we're very clear like the ground floor parking on card and and and mcdonnell

1:31:46They're not going to change whatsoever with this development

1:31:50So is that like if you have that understanding is that an issue for you?

1:31:57Are you saying that what I should be doing is I should drive downtown and go into that

1:32:02Big parking lot that we built for 22 million dollars a few years ago

1:32:07You know, what I'm saying is the parking conditions

1:32:10Outside is not going to change whatsoever

1:32:12No, it's just going to be a ton more people

1:32:15and

1:32:17Why that an issue and how will I manage you know, I think you have right now you have two

1:32:21I'm in one of them. You have two parking spots on card and street in this area

1:32:25I'm in actually one of them now for the disabled

1:32:28So if you have a lot lot more people

1:32:31How am I going to get downtown? How am I going to do that?

1:32:34Okay, thank you. You're welcome

1:32:37Okay, are there any other questions of miss grist? Thank you very much. You're welcome. Uh now we have uh chris grason

1:32:46Gato and that was susan swanson in the ring. So go ahead

1:33:07Cool. Hello. I am chris grason gato. I've been a resident of guelph since 2016

1:33:13I'm here as a member of the advocacy committee of guelph coalition for active transportation

1:33:17And we are in support of the plan building at 26 to 40 cardin street

1:33:22And specifically here. We are especially a supportive of the no car parking in their building and instead plan to full bicycle parking

1:33:30So first I will not acknowledge that this building does not need to provide car parking due to build 185

1:33:36But this so in general, I think guelph should actually be expanding this to the whole of guelph

1:33:40And remove parking minimums as soon as possible. But for the moment

1:33:44Um, I want to just la many people's fears about the lack of parking in this building

1:33:48And show where this lack of parking is actually really really good for guelph

1:33:53Um, so we can make our city more economically productive. We can make it more healthier

1:33:57We can make it happier by reducing our dependency on cars

1:34:01Um, first, I'll just give a quick run rundown of why car dependency is bad for us

1:34:06Unaffordable housing death and injuries noise and air pollution that reduces our quality of life and our life expectancy

1:34:12climate change

1:34:13And then there's also city sprawl that creates areas devoid of people

1:34:17Which contributes to economically unproductive dead zones and damages social cohesion

1:34:23And all of these detrimental effects on our cities are actually well documented

1:34:28So every time that we require a building or development to build parking we maintain an increased car dependency

1:34:36This is the principle of induced demand

1:34:38Um, normally induced demand is applied to adding new roads or new lanes to roads

1:34:43Um, these new roads and new lanes encourage people to drive

1:34:47Because the costs of driving are initially reduced

1:34:51Adding parking works the same way as adding new roads or lanes more people drive because there is more parking

1:34:57by definition

1:35:00Induced demand also works for active transportation and public transit

1:35:03If transit and active transportation are safe convenient and fast people will regularly choose transit and active transportation

1:35:09So let's return to the skyline building in question

1:35:12Uh, this building without car parking provides more choice for our city

1:35:16So people who don't want to own a car that would be me or can't afford a car

1:35:21Also kind of me at the moment can live easily without a car

1:35:25The building is very close to many wonderful shops and restaurants downtown

1:35:30The train station and bus station are in these walk once the all abilities and all ages bicycle lane is installed in gordon warwick

1:35:36There will be a safe bicycle route that spans the length of gulf. I also know that there's more

1:35:41Bicycle lanes that are going in over time, which is great. Keep doing that

1:35:44Um, the bike the building has 120 bicycle stalls, which is one bicycle store per apartment

1:35:50Um, and there are car share cars very close by

1:35:53Um residents will not need to own a car in this building and will instead mostly get around by walking biking rolling or by bus

1:36:02Um, there may be a few at residents who do own a car

1:36:05They can't park their car on the downtown streets for longer than two hours

1:36:08So likely these residents will park their car in the market park aid

1:36:12Um, this park aid is in my honest opinion embarrassingly underutilized

1:36:17So if we get more people parking in that park aid, that's a good thing

1:36:21Um, but there will be an extra incentive for those people to get rid of their car because of that cost of parking

1:36:27And that is a good thing for gulf. We want less people to drive

1:36:31Um, so my overall message here is the lack of car parking in this building will not cause chaos on our streets

1:36:38But it will instead contribute to gulf becoming more economically productive

1:36:42happier and healthier

1:36:44So i'm here really just encouraging uh with the gulf coalition factor transportation

1:36:49Encouraging the city council the local businesses and the wider gulf community

1:36:53To support this building with no car parking

1:36:55Um, and with that i'm very happy to take questions

1:37:00Great, thank you. Uh, okay. We have one question from councillor busatel

1:37:05No, it's one or many but just one. Thank you very much madam chair and to the delegate. Thank you very much for your presentation

1:37:12um, you talk a lot about the

1:37:14active transit parking and so i'm understand all that you haven't commented on the 14 story tower

1:37:22Is uh, does the advocacy group have a position on a 14 story tower downtown gulf?

1:37:28So i'm going to leave that to jason who is coming up next or later in the in the

1:37:33i'll leave that for jason

1:37:35Are there any other questions for the delegate?

1:37:38Oh council kate

1:37:41Thank you through you madam chair

1:37:44I i love that you all advocate for active transportation. Um, is there anything that your group is doing towards?

1:37:52um

1:37:53speaking to developers and

1:37:55new builders about space for accessible

1:37:59bicycles and

1:38:01Family bicycles and larger units because i have a friend who is a wheelchair user who also is a great cyclist

1:38:08But he needs special

1:38:09Loading zones to get from his chair to his bike and then places to lock up his chair

1:38:14And these are all very expensive units so

1:38:17Are there is there anything that you're all doing to?

1:38:20advocate for disability access in biking

1:38:24I don't know specifically to that but I do know that our organization is always wanting to

1:38:31Advocate on that and keep that going. Um, but I don't know specifically to answer that question

1:38:38Okay, thanks

1:38:40Thank you. Are there any other questions?

1:38:42Seeing none. Thank you

1:38:46Thank you. Mr. Gray

1:38:48Grayson Cato

1:38:51No, I would

1:38:53Suzanne swanston

1:38:56Is up next

1:39:00Would julia gradient?

1:39:04Good evening, madam chair and members of council

1:39:08I'm representing the board of directors of the nonprofit organization 42

1:39:13Cardin shared space and we are the owners of 42 cardin street and 41 mcdonnell street

1:39:20We are the property directly to the east of the proposed development

1:39:24And both our building and the proposed development span the block between

1:39:29Cardin and mcdonnell and have storefronts on both streets

1:39:33As noted in the development application our building is not a heritage building

1:39:37But is the former acker's furniture store and before that a seed warehouse built in phases between 1860 to 1900s

1:39:46Our organization redeveloped this property in 2016 to be a vibrant and accessible nonprofit community hub

1:39:54Our organization is a social enterprise that generates revenue from the variety of community benefit activities that contribute to local social and economic resilience

1:40:05Our building includes

1:40:08Co-working offices a commercial kitchen and meeting rooms that are available to nonprofit groups small businesses and individuals

1:40:16These activities are offered through our related

1:40:19party corporation

1:40:2110 cardin shared space widely known as 10c

1:40:26There are a number of positives we see regarding the proposed residential development

1:40:31Which I echo from previous delegates those being an increased supply of rental housing more people living and working downtown

1:40:39More people using active transportation and public transit and more people to access the small businesses

1:40:47As was raised previously in the discussion

1:40:52We also have some concerns it is assumed in the planning justification

1:40:57Study that none of the nearby properties are likely to be redeveloped or built up

1:41:03We assert that this development as proposed risks precluding development of any of the adjacent properties

1:41:11This would undermine the long-term intensification objectives on the block

1:41:16Our organization is concerned that should the current design and the reduction in the side yard be be approved

1:41:23That this will limit our redevelopment potential to intensify our property

1:41:28And this again was raised before but i'm going to articulate the concerns more fully as I prepared them

1:41:36So, um, we are underway on planning an active rooftop space

1:41:41And in the near or medium term may be planning to add the further two or three stories of mixed-use space to 42 cardin

1:41:48We also have concerns pertaining to the east elevation which abuts our property

1:41:53specifically the requested reduction in minimum interior side yard from six to two meters for the

1:42:02podium building as was described

1:42:05Both the east and west facing units at levels two to four

1:42:10Have windows facing onto the blank wall of the adjacent properties

1:42:15And are entirely shaded by the new balconies above

1:42:19This is the case even if no future development

1:42:22Or to occur on either of the adjacent properties

1:42:26This is a

1:42:28visible in the elevations provided in the submission

1:42:31These units would essentially have no outdoor views and would have only the dimmest hint of natural light through most of the day

1:42:38Further level five and six balconies will be very close to our rooftop

1:42:43As mentioned our plans are to activate our rooftop space

1:42:47We are concerned about the proximity

1:42:50Of some of the east side balconies from a safety and security perspective as from the sixth floor

1:42:56One could literally hop across onto our rooftops

1:43:00Also, it is our understanding that the city policy on balconies is that they be recessed or integrated into the design of the building

1:43:08Which does not seem to be the case on the east and west side of the proposed structure

1:43:16In regard to these concerns we requested the city of guelph refuse the application in its current form

1:43:23We would like to see the design revised to eliminate east west facing units in favor of an abutting wall condition

1:43:31Where apartments units face north and south with the east and west

1:43:36Elevations clear of openings in contemplation of future development that may abut

1:43:42This approach ensures the potential for ongoing intensification of the block

1:43:47And preserves the rights of abutting neighbors to develop their properties in the future

1:43:55Just to flag a few additional concerns

1:43:59The uh, we're concerned regarding the potential

1:44:0314 stories in relation to increased snow load

1:44:07Directed to our property and note the significant financial burden that that such a development may impose upon us

1:44:15We request a snow load study and that the developer be held accountable for conducting

1:44:20thorough impact assessment in this regard

1:44:23And be responsible for implementing design solutions that prevent an adverse impact to the neighboring buildings

1:44:32We are also concerned about the structural impacts that may occur during

1:44:36actual construction and the potential with digging drilling for negative impacts to occur to foundations

1:44:44Um and walls of the surrounding buildings

1:44:48We request the developer conduct a structural precondition survey and have a monitoring practice in place during and

1:44:56During and post development pretty standard practices in this kind of development

1:45:02Um, the neighboring properties should not have to inherit future structural damage from the addition of this building

1:45:10Also for consideration, we are concerned about and I I'm just flagging all the concerns that we raised

1:45:18Um about how drop off and pick up to the building will be handled for things like food and household deliveries

1:45:26Uh ride services and people using accessible transit

1:45:30If the building has a large proportion of students and I was glad to hear we got some clarification on who would be living there

1:45:37Because from the application it did seem like it was predominantly students

1:45:42Um, even if there is a high concentration of students in the building

1:45:46They tend to move out at certain times of the year so that puts um

1:45:51Uh, I think in terms of the loading bay, it seems highly optimistic that one loading area on the main floor off mac dennell

1:45:59Will be adequate for all these purposes in addition to commercial deliveries

1:46:04Contracting services and garbage pickup

1:46:07If not internal to the building, how will mac dennell street be reconfigured to accommodate these uses?

1:46:14um

1:46:16It's was mentioned in the planning justification report that this would be ideal for rental housing for students giving the proximity to

1:46:24the proposed conestoga

1:46:26college building

1:46:29And if this building is geared to a proportion of students, we ask that skyline follow best practices

1:46:35And consider on-site services to support the variety of needs that high density student tendencies would benefit from to make this a successful

1:46:45Uh tendencies

1:46:47Whoever resides here, whether they are students people who work downtown small families

1:46:53Everyone faces escalating costs in all aspects of life including rent

1:46:58Given that the developer is asking for

1:47:02um increase height

1:47:04Uh decreased side yards and is providing no parking

1:47:07Our organization advocates for the city to negotiate a long-term commitment for a percentage of below market and or

1:47:15affordable rental units in the proposed building

1:47:19In closing we strongly urge staff and council

1:47:22To weigh all factors in coming to a decision on the appropriate scale and form of infill for this location

1:47:30As well as the precedent it will set for this historic area of downtown

1:47:34We look forward to

1:47:36dialogue with

1:47:37skyline and city staff to ensure that should the development go forward

1:47:42That we can provide input to mitigate any potential

1:47:47Adverse impacts to our building and operations as well as the neighboring properties

1:47:52Thank you

1:47:54Hey, thank you. Ms. Swanton. Is there any questions councillor Allt?

1:47:59Thank you very much through you madam chair to the delegate miss swanson

1:48:05Um miss swanson. I've got a few questions in there all over the place

1:48:09um the

1:48:11Because i'm familiar with 10c and and the effort that went into it

1:48:15I'm familiar with with some of the

1:48:18innovations that you've put in there

1:48:20um

1:48:21What i'm not familiar with is you made reference to shading and the effect

1:48:26On on natural light

1:48:29Is there a concern? I realize that you don't have solar panels, but is there a concern about passive solar and

1:48:37anything related to uh how the building is

1:48:40Is it heated or cooled or anything like that?

1:48:43Not at this current point, but not to say that we wouldn't consider solar panels at some point

1:48:49Okay, are you doing that right now or not? No, okay, and and julia grady's up after me

1:48:54So there may be some questions. She can better answer. Okay. I can I can do that

1:48:59um

1:49:00Your comment about safety and security is an interesting one. I've never had that one come up before

1:49:04But I can certainly appreciate that there could be safety and security issues

1:49:09Are there specifics that you could outline? I heard you made mention of of uh particular

1:49:15balconies being adjacent to your rooftop

1:49:18What are some of the safety and security issues that you would flag?

1:49:22So with the reduced setback if you look at the um elevations

1:49:27You can see that the rooftop is or the um

1:49:31The balconies at level four or five and six. I believe it is are very close to to our rooftop

1:49:39So with the reduced setback or the reduced side yard, you could literally step across

1:49:45Um, or you're coming at it from above and we just wouldn't want to see

1:49:50anybody try to

1:49:51Use a new rooftop garden at 42 garden

1:49:56Okay, well you might have carrots that I might want. Um

1:49:59Now you made reference to snow load and I would love a snow load and go off in the next few years. Um

1:50:05Um, no pun. Can you unpack what you mean by that please?

1:50:10so this is um

1:50:12input we've had from engineering and it it's simply that

1:50:18We need to understand better what?

1:50:21a 14 story or any

1:50:24differing height building will have

1:50:26Next to us is in terms of snow load and you're right. Um, we are seeing decreasing snow, but it can be wet snow and

1:50:34Whatever it we've just redone our roof and we want to make sure there's no

1:50:41That it can support snow from a neighboring

1:50:44Building, so I think it's just a study that the developer would do like they would do a shade study or I get that

1:50:51um, I'm almost at the end. Um, madam chair

1:50:55Parking comes up at infinite in this discussion right now

1:50:59I'm curious. What are the number of office spaces that that are in card and street 10 car 10c right now

1:51:05So if you don't mind directing that to julia, I can do okay. Yeah, that would be awesome. I'll put a j beside that one

1:51:12um, and uh, the next one related to that was

1:51:15Really related specifically to chalmers and you'd made reference of loading spaces

1:51:20Are there concerns about chalmers and the efforts that they are engaged in and what the impact might be of

1:51:27Of significant another another really good question for julia julia. Okay. I'm starting to see a theme here

1:51:33Um, so the last question is really one that's quite important

1:51:37You said refuse the application and review what would be appropriate in your perspective from your perspective

1:51:44What do you consider would make this a more ideal?

1:51:48um development so

1:51:50sort of our main

1:51:52concern is the

1:51:55Active uses on all sides of the building. So we are

1:51:58asking that the units face north and south the apartment units and that the

1:52:07Uh east and west elevations would be free of openings such as windows

1:52:13Is there any concern about height or is the height fine? Um

1:52:18height is is uh

1:52:20I think along the theme of what's been discussed tonight. It it has to be considered in the context of everything

1:52:27Um, and it's just I don't want to have a kind of one-off opinion on that. That's fine. I'll ask julia

1:52:34Yeah, ask julia. Okay. Sorry. Uh, thanks very much madam chair

1:52:39Are there any other questions of the deletion?

1:52:42It's seeing that oh councillor chute

1:52:45I don't thank you madam chair just very quickly

1:52:48like at the core of your

1:52:51Concerns is really the privacy and the lack of setback from

1:52:54Your building and theirs correct the ability to be able to build up in the future for the adjacent properties

1:53:02If there's active uses on all sides of the buildings

1:53:05So your ability to go up develop up. Okay sure is now

1:53:10Procluded by the the way the building is designed. Okay. Thank you

1:53:17Okay, uh, thank you very much swanton. Um, I will ask for julia grady to come forward

1:53:26Keep the question

1:53:28Thank you. Do

1:53:35Welcome miss grady. All right

1:53:39Good evening chair denner

1:53:42And members of council

1:53:46Okay, thank you for hosting this public meeting regarding the proposed development on cardamac d'enel street

1:53:51i'm julie grady the edine co-founder of tensi shirts space

1:53:55and um as many of you know tensi has been an active part of downtown's

1:54:01Well downtown welf's community for 16 years as a nonprofit organization

1:54:05We support over 250 change making individuals and organizations who are committed to improving their communities

1:54:12Throughout its history tensi has contributed to the downtown community

1:54:16Through the revitalization of two key downtown properties by transforming the acres furniture building into a vibrant

1:54:23Shared co-working in a community events hub and more recently taking on the activation of the wild farmers market

1:54:29In response to the proposed development tensi gathered feedback from members and the broader community

1:54:35We did this because the um the information came out late in july

1:54:39There was no conversation or dialogue

1:54:42Around that and the prior meeting in october the public meeting neither ourselves the director jason property owners nor

1:54:50Atmosphere the operators of the of the building owned by someone else were actually invited to the

1:54:56convening of the um of the community

1:54:59So we um we took on um kind of a role to gather

1:55:03Community input so i'm sharing some of that input um with you in addition to what susan has um shared

1:55:09In regards to um our property concerns

1:55:12So we receive feedback and verbal um written and verbal feedback from 30 individuals

1:55:17Several of whom have sent in letters the feedback recognizes a critical need for more diverse housing options across the city

1:55:23I think we obviously know that um wealth is fundamentally broken as far as housing is concerned

1:55:30We need more and varied types of owned rented and supported units and while stressing that there's an urgent

1:55:37demand for a range of affordable housing options

1:55:40I don't know that this is the moment to just build anything anywhere

1:55:45So while we tensi um contributing community members recognize potential potential benefits of creating more housing downtown

1:55:52We believe that this development poses several risks and could negatively impact the downtown neighborhood and businesses if approved as is

1:55:59Our key concerns are um the approval of the proposed development could set a precedent for further ad hoc

1:56:06site specific zoning amendments that aren't aligned with the downtown secondary plan

1:56:11And undermine the democratic processes that supported the development of this plan

1:56:16The existing and award-winning downtown secondary plan

1:56:19represent represents a comprehensive vision for the

1:56:22The development of downtown and was developed with extensive input from the community

1:56:27We believe that the vision targets and implementation strategies defined in this plan should be adhered to when making decisions about

1:56:35development proposals in downtown wealth

1:56:38In the event of the downtown secondary plan no longer represents a path forward to addressing current housing needs and affordability

1:56:45Then new comprehensive strategies should be developed with ample community feedback and input

1:56:50Weird city planning staff and council to honor the community vision and the strategic development approach

1:56:56articulated in the downtown secondary plan and to reject the proposal in its current form

1:57:02The proposed development and does not include any affordable housing

1:57:06And therefore doesn't align with the city's current needs or priorities for housing

1:57:10There's a real risk that that further gentrification

1:57:14Could push out existing residents and make downtown inaccessible to many

1:57:18To ensure that downtown living remains affordable and accessible to everyone

1:57:22The city should continue to advocate for affordable housing

1:57:26And negotiate a commitment to a meaningful percentage of below market rents for this and other further development sites

1:57:32in alignment with the city's housing affordability strategy

1:57:37The proposed developments building and building typology

1:57:41Would disrupt the current human scale of the downtown core and impact enjoyment of the surrounding public spaces

1:57:47The six-story building height limit outlined in the secondary plan

1:57:51allows for increased housing density in the downtown core

1:57:54While maintaining a human scale and heritage character the proposed development at 14 stories

1:58:00In the middle of a block has the potential to significantly impact the enjoyment of market square and other public spaces

1:58:08An additionally approval of this proposal opens the door for buildings of similar height and scale

1:58:14It should be noted that while the downtown secondary plan

1:58:17Limits building heights in historic core. It has designated several zones in the downtown area where high rise development should be permitted

1:58:25Including many existing sites at the river

1:58:28This proposal is based on the assumption of that adding residential density of 120 units and 6 000 square feet of commercial real estate space

1:58:36Will have little or no impact on traffic and circulation

1:58:41Proposals that aim to reduce car dependency and encourage more sustainable transportation choices are

1:58:47Are encouraging and can provide many benefits

1:58:50However with no off-street parking and only one loading zone to accommodate deliveries and all forms of building access

1:58:57This proposal demonstrates a limited understanding of circulation needs

1:59:02particularly on macton l street where transportation where

1:59:05Traffic and pedestrian safety is challenging at best

1:59:09A development of this size without any parking or loading areas has the potential to

1:59:14Increase traffic congestion and create pedestrian safety issues particularly when future developments such as connoisseur

1:59:21College campus are considered

1:59:23I think ken noted that there wouldn't be a reduction in parking spaces

1:59:27But there would be reduction in parking on macton l street and that would have a direct impact

1:59:32To the street as well as as well as to chalmers to facilitate the the loading bay

1:59:38So downtown gulf neighborhood currently lacks amenities and services to support developments like this

1:59:43I was happy to hear that skyline was considered in their um breads and meds

1:59:49kind of quote the um the notion of a

1:59:52An grocery store. I think a grocery store in downtown particularly an affordable grocery store within walking distance of other proposed development

2:00:01Is a critical need in the downtown as it intensifies

2:00:04And without it it could pose challenges to future residents

2:00:08So free and quality free and accessible quality spaces are also currently currently limited in the downtown core with really

2:00:16Market square and then just like the the walks or what not to the river being really the only kind of core community spaces

2:00:23And in addition to concerns of long-term impacts of the proposed

2:00:27Outline above our members have concerned about short-term disruptions that the development will cause

2:00:33I think tony spoke pretty well to the loading zone

2:00:36conversation during construction

2:00:38And we understand that this is like

2:00:41Unavoidable, but we're hoping that these impacts could be mitigated through ongoing and open dialogue with property and business owners

2:00:48We're particularly concerned concerned about

2:00:51Decreased foot traffic for businesses on cardamom and mcdonnell

2:00:55Also restricted sidewalk and street access will impact the accessibility and visibility of several businesses and organizations

2:01:03And the city and developer must ensure that accommodations are in place to ensure

2:01:07ongoing accessible and equitable street and sidewalk usage

2:01:10The construction period will reduce the accessibility the availability of already

2:01:15scarce parking street parking downtown

2:01:18And temporary solutions such as free access to market park aid and clear signage should be considered

2:01:24And then in general just increased noise and general disruptions during even an 18 month construction process

2:01:31We operate an active co-working space with hundreds of daily users

2:01:34And we know that market square has tons of kids and teens and everyone doing

2:01:40Public things I think all of the development will will have impacts on life in downtown

2:01:47And then in closing while recognizing the need for more

2:01:51Housing options and increased density downtown. We're concerned that this proposal conflicts with the downtown secondary plan

2:01:58It lacks affordable housing options and could place a strain on existing services

2:02:03and weird stuff and council and the planning department to

2:02:07reinforce the downtown secondary plan as a guiding document and

2:02:10ensure that developments align with that vision and to build a inclusive sustainable downtown that supports current future needs

2:02:19Thank you, miss grady. So

2:02:22There's questions from councillor Allt

2:02:24Thank you very much. Thank you. Ms. O'Grady. I was going to ask these earlier, but I'm going to ask them to you now

2:02:30The first question I have I'm familiar with

2:02:34The rainwater harvesting project that you have

2:02:37Is the engineer's actually gave me a tour of it at one point

2:02:40This is immediately a concern for me

2:02:43Does does this potential project in in your opinion have an impact upon rainwater harvesting?

2:02:50Yeah, it may and I think that relates to Suzanne's comment around the snow snow studies

2:02:55So I think we'd have a like a snow and water study related to that and for reference through madam chair the

2:03:0442 card and has a rainwater capture system that collects all the rainwater and then that runs the toilet

2:03:10So we like highly recommend that as one of the kind of green infrastructure components

2:03:14But we don't yet know what impact the adjacent building would have on rain or snow patterns

2:03:21Okay, I I guess it's not possible to get a determination from mr. Neab on this is is it or maybe he's not the right person

2:03:29Yeah, I think it well it would be whoever skyline consults with for snow and rain impacts

2:03:35Okay, thank you parking is an interesting one for me because

2:03:39Uh, I'm not I do not know how many offices that you have in there

2:03:43But I would believe that there is a quite a demand for parking on street and in market square

2:03:50Are you able to comment on that at this point?

2:03:52I think our uses are different than

2:03:56Residentials, so I think the the tensi has no no parking obviously. There's

2:04:02occasional drop-offs and deliveries

2:04:04I think our main impacts are drop-offs and deliveries on both the tensi side as well as the macdenus street side they run

2:04:12Thousands of tons of food through there a year as do many of the neighboring restaurants

2:04:16So I think the impacts of like how deliveries happen in regards to parking and

2:04:23Long term both long term and short term would be our concerns

2:04:27Okay, I think you're actually just answered two questions for me

2:04:31The next question is I had asked um earlier about natural light and whether I don't I'm not certain whether you

2:04:38rely or

2:04:39Offset your heating with things like passive solar. I was wondering if this was a taller concern

2:04:45Yeah, the passive solar isn't a concern if we're going to do solar in the future

2:04:49We'd do something on the south facade, but the shade pattern for the tower adjacent is

2:04:56It would be a concern for the active rooftop uses. We would then

2:05:01Have a shady rooftop because that we would have no nearly no sun after I think it's like 1215 or something

2:05:09Um, you made reference to parking and I wasn't I didn't catch it. Are you talking about?

2:05:15Traffic, I mean are you talking about traffic as a consequence of a large building?

2:05:20Being built there actually increasing. I think mcdonnell street

2:05:24Is through yes, I think mcdonnell street is going to be a massive challenge in the long term

2:05:30I'm not a transportation planner, but with um

2:05:34My kid lived in a in a student residence and I know that

2:05:37This verbally now isn't a student residence, but the documentation clearly labels the building as student accommodation

2:05:44um

2:05:45The number of deliveries and the ins and outs and all of the ubers on

2:05:51Fundamentally on mcdonnell street because that's the side of the building servicing the residential. I think that's that's a big concern

2:05:57It's our like main transit corridor as well as the the parallel parking makes it tricky on a on a good day

2:06:04And last question, um, I'm just presuming that you believe the height should be limited to six stories

2:06:11In accordance with the downtown secondary plan. Is that correct? Yeah, let's answer height

2:06:15So this is just this is my personal opinion and most a lot of the feedback that we received was around the height

2:06:22The visible height for from pedestrians as well as like the feel of the city

2:06:27Needs to be considered and if the if years of study through the downtown

2:06:31Secondary plan said this whole area of the city should be six stories folks

2:06:35Then there has to be some kind of further justification around why we're developing

2:06:40Hearts of our city in different ways

2:06:42So you're suggesting a Parisian model of development, which is yeah, and right now and sorry, phil if I could just go further on that

2:06:50Sometimes that makes sense at the end of a block

2:06:54It doesn't necessarily make sense in the middle of the block to throw up 14 stories

2:06:59Okay, and what is just out of curiosity. What's the height of your building? I know it's I think it's three or four stories

2:07:06They seem rather tall it's four it's a tall four stories

2:07:09Compared to the older buildings. I think I don't know that height off

2:07:13So it probably capped out at about five stories if it was eight foot ceilings

2:07:17I would think or maybe maybe a little more. Yeah four and a half. Maybe okay. All right. Thank you

2:07:22Are there any other questions of the delegation? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. It's great. Okay. We're gonna have scott frederick

2:07:30Joining us by video

2:07:33Is he available? Oh scott's there. Yeah

2:07:43Frederick

2:07:45Okay, so you have 10 minutes

2:07:47Okay, that'll be plenty

2:07:50Um, I don't I don't think your video is on. I don't have the camera on it's not working very well

2:07:55I'm good at just the audio. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Um, this proposal is for a 24 story building

2:08:03Where only six is allowed by the official plan the downtown set the plan

2:08:09I call for the plan to be respected in this case

2:08:13The official plan if followed allows for sufficient housing to meet

2:08:18Our currently planned growth targets. There's no need to exceed the plan in this or any other case

2:08:26It's the job of developers to maximize the profit they can make on the specific patches of land that they own

2:08:33Uh, because their shareholders demand it

2:08:36But it's the job of council to make decisions in the best interests of the entire city

2:08:41And not to satisfy the demands of specific developers

2:08:46So again, I call on council to respect the official plan and not allow the exceptions from the plan that are being requested

2:08:55So also on this on a specific matter of parking

2:08:59I'm okay with no parking being provided for this project as the uh,

2:09:04Pardon consultants for the proponent has said in their report

2:09:08It is anticipated that this development will be occupied by transit users active transportation reliant individuals and those

2:09:18living working or studying in the downtown area

2:09:23This project is next door to an

2:09:25Underused parking garage and a short distance from a transit hub. So case

2:09:31Could be made that parking is not needed here

2:09:34But the quid pro quo for this relief is that there should be support for transit and active transportation

2:09:42So I understand that it's possible to request cash in lieu

2:09:46in exchange for reduced parking and I also understand that this money can't be directly

2:09:51Directed towards transit due to provisions in the planning act

2:09:57But notwithstanding this we should be aware at budget time

2:10:01the reductions in parking memems means that we need to

2:10:06increase funding for transit and active transportation not decrease it or push it far into the so far into the future that we never reach it

2:10:16Our higher level plans call for our modal split to

2:10:20view towards transit and active transportation

2:10:24We need to fund alternatives now and not wait until we're faced with a

2:10:29A crisis before acting

2:10:33Finally there are things to like here the large proportion of two and three bedroom units

2:10:38Which might be suitable for families is welcome

2:10:42Family accommodation is lacking in the current housing housing stock which has been skewed towards

2:10:49The demands of investors which prefer smaller units which are unsuitable

2:10:54for families

2:10:57So that is the end of my delegation

2:11:06Sorry, thank you. Mr. Frederick. Are there any questions for mr. Frederick?

2:11:11Sina, thank you for your delegation

2:11:14Hey our final one

2:11:16Uh, we registered one tonight because there we can also go to unregistered ones is uh jason chefs

2:11:24I

2:11:25Couldn't let me know if I said that right

2:11:30And he's from gcat

2:11:43Hello council

2:11:44I'm jason chefs. I'm part of the gulf coalition for active transportation

2:11:48And I'll be talking a little bit about the pedestrian realm with this proposal

2:11:53Um

2:11:54Two major concerns tonight are parking and building height under the new bill 185

2:11:59Off-street parking is not required in the subject lands because they fall with an imagined

2:12:04major transit station area

2:12:06As laid out in the staff report having zero parking is forward thinking

2:12:10It'll be sought after residents with or without parking provided

2:12:13Not having parking inside allows for more floor space of commercial on the ground which aids to a more vibrant downtown

2:12:21There's enough underutilized parking in the direct vicinity for those who choose to own a car to have options

2:12:27In place of parking alternatives for future residents such as easy accessible bike parking and pass through elevators are needed

2:12:36Regarding the building height the downtown secondary plan should be revisited

2:12:40However, the current proposed height will look out of place in the rest of the neighborhood

2:12:46I'll be talking about one of the aspects of the building that is a trend affecting our downtown the smoothing of the pedestrian facade

2:12:52There are a few recent examples of this, but I'll mention the most atrocious

2:13:06The building here is 111 windham street in 2015 the bud's department store

2:13:11the pedestrian experience

2:13:14Of this store was walking past the threshold around the displays and enter into the store or back onto the street

2:13:20This is a building that interacts with the pedestrian realm

2:13:25Here's a view in 2024

2:13:27Notice that the entire facade was flattened to increase the sellable floor space internally

2:13:32They do not care about the pedestrian experience in front of the building

2:13:36They do not care about their neighbors or keeping up with the rhythm of the street

2:13:46Here's the pedestrian level of the new bit development. It looks much better than the previous example

2:13:51However, it still suffers from flattening

2:13:54There are stone facades, but it is merely skin deep

2:14:01The following is an example or an expert from the submitted heritage impact assessment and I quote

2:14:08Storefront design should recall the fine grain rhythm ample display windows with transoms and recessed entrances

2:14:15Recalling the 19th century commercial frontages of the property

2:14:20Should these recommendations be considered in the design of the proposed development?

2:14:24Acceptable impacts to the existing adjacent fabric and landscape are expected

2:14:30These recessed entrances exist on most of the buildings in downtown

2:14:34or

2:14:35Think about your favorite business downtown in its entrance. It is probably set back from the street

2:14:41The small elements adds to the overall experience while walking downtown creating a dynamic street

2:14:50The building has not taken this design recommendation and is a single face for the length of the structure

2:14:55The massing has not been broken up and does not give back to the street

2:14:59Each entrance should be recessed as described in the impact assessment

2:15:03A single facade belongs in a strip mall and not in a downtown setting

2:15:08The current rev big building had four independent businesses along the facade

2:15:12The current design lowers the storefront density to three

2:15:16With an easy option to allow for a single business to occupy the entire facade

2:15:24the sheer glass

2:15:26Plate section of windows also does not belong on cardin

2:15:29It is anti-pedestrian and it should be reevaluated as it does not add to the pedestrian experience on the street

2:15:36If the proposal is trying to make more

2:15:38Proposal is trying to take more from our skies. They should be giving back a better pedestrian experience on the ground floor

2:15:44Skyline example of the gummer building is proof they can carefully integrate a building into the fabric of the downtown

2:15:50If done right and carefully this can be a catalyst to spur more investment on a downtown for redevelopment

2:15:56Taking locked parcels restricted by parking requirements and opening them up for further housing or commercial endeavors

2:16:05That's that's your concluded. Okay. Thank you. Are there any

2:16:09Questions of mr. Sches

2:16:13Okay, thank you

2:16:15Okay, that concludes our delegations here now because this is a planning meeting

2:16:20Um, people do not have to register and we could ask if there's anybody who would like to uh

2:16:27Delegate from the audience here and then we will go to putting a phone number up on the screen

2:16:34And pause for a few minutes to see if anybody wanted to call in by c. Ms. Watson would like to come forward

2:16:51thank you

2:16:53and members of council

2:16:56I find this particular application

2:16:59profoundly

2:17:01Disrespectful and frankly offensive

2:17:03It demonstrates a complete disregard for local democracy

2:17:07and the collective will of gulf citizens

2:17:11It's a joke that skyline claims to be so community minded when they don't seem to care what the community has

2:17:17democratically decided their vision of the downtown is going to be

2:17:22The downtown secondary plan was an award-winning plan

2:17:26It took four years to create with extensive consultation with citizens

2:17:32consultants, I remember the

2:17:353d model that they had in the old council council chambers

2:17:40and

2:17:41Many of the councillor Caron

2:17:44Uh, councillor billings mayor guthrie were on the two councils that that straddle that process

2:17:52The plan was not anti intensification

2:17:56It actually envisioned intensification

2:17:59But thoughtfully directed it to the periphery of the downtown core

2:18:03And we've seen much of that vision come to pass with the tri-car condos the baker street apartments market commons in the new condo

2:18:10condo building near the river

2:18:13The downtown secondary plan sought to protect

2:18:17And retain a human scale in the downtown heritage core

2:18:22Where building heights would be limited to six stories

2:18:25Skyline has the opportunity to turn a two-story building

2:18:31into a six-story building

2:18:34But what they are proposing is a gross violation of a democratically crafted plan

2:18:40And other cities have taken the same approach to protecting their heritage cores

2:18:45Just a few days ago. I was in kebek city and the historic city is carefully preserved

2:18:50Within the ancient fortified walls, but just outside them you have multi-story

2:18:57modern buildings

2:18:59We are looking to invest millions of dollars in our downtown

2:19:04And we want to preserve the collective experience of the public realm within our core

2:19:09We need to have city planning which looks at the big picture and community needs

2:19:15Not just the bottom line for individual developers

2:19:20And I'd like to talk about that bottom line

2:19:23Skyline would have acquired this property at a price that reflected the maximum allowed zoning of six stories

2:19:29They didn't pay the price for 14 storey zoning

2:19:35If you approve these 120 units recent legislation means that you cannot require any parking spaces whatsoever

2:19:42So that means that the developer will be saving something in the range of 70 to 80 thousand dollars

2:19:49per unit for the underground parking that they are no longer required to provide

2:19:54Which sets up an even better scenario for more profits at the expense of citizens

2:20:00Because they don't have to provide parking

2:20:03The developer will automatically have the leeway to drop the rental or sale price

2:20:0820 below market rates because they've cut their expenses not their profits

2:20:14Which means bingo that ford's legislation

2:20:17Will let them completely off the hook for any development charges

2:20:22whatsoever

2:20:23They can get their development charges waived

2:20:26So we're about to invest millions of dollars in the downtown

2:20:30In a large part for infrastructure

2:20:32And the cost of development infrastructure to support 120 units would normally be in the range of five million dollars

2:20:41Uh at the normal price

2:20:43We would probably be able to recover something like 3.5 to 4 million dollars in development charges to offset that 5 million

2:20:51But not if eliminating parking allows the developer to automatically drop prices below the 20 threshold without compromising profits

2:21:01And what is that threshold?

2:21:04Well, the two bedroom apartment in guelph is currently renting for almost

2:21:07$2,500 a month before utilities

2:21:11So an affordable two bedroom apartment at 20 below market will be $2,000 a month or $1,000 per bedroom

2:21:22Basically the same rent that my engineering grad son is paying for a bedroom in toronto

2:21:27It's not affordable for anyone who doesn't have a professional salary and it's not exactly a student rate for housing

2:21:34But it's a great formula for development developer profit

2:21:38And suck sucker citizens are going to be on the hook to pay for it all

2:21:43And I actually find it disgusting

2:21:45That a critical housing crisis is currently being exploited by developers across this province to generate even higher profits

2:21:54If you're looking for budget savings in the upcoming budget process

2:21:59Just be aware that approving this development alone

2:22:04Could come with a 5 million dollar infrastructure impact on taxes

2:22:09That you won't be able to recover when the development charges are waived

2:22:15Doug Doug Ford has sweetened the pot even further for developers because we no longer have density

2:22:20Bonusing that we give extra density, but we get some sort of benefit in return

2:22:26And also new legislation means that we will only be able to collect

2:22:3050 of the parkland dedication that we were previously entitled to

2:22:35So the parkland that was supposed to be added in beside the river in the angels plaza

2:22:40To support all of this additional population will receive very little financing

2:22:45And that yet to be realized park was part of why the downtown secondary plan won awards

2:22:52So as usual citizens are stuck with the extra infrastructure costs extra parking congestion and higher pressure on existing parks

2:23:02We get the negative impacts of additional intensification, but not the benefits and it's the developers who make the profits

2:23:10Of course neighboring property owners want to see this project go ahead

2:23:15Because it will set a precedent for 14 story zoning on their properties and they can cash in big time

2:23:23You heard earlier from a previous property owner that they've been sitting on their property

2:23:28Just waiting for the opportunity to develop it and make no mistake

2:23:33You will be setting a precedent

2:23:36Our 30 year experiment of leaving housing solely to the private private sector has proved to be an

2:23:43Unmitigated disaster with average canadians now being gouged by for-profit landlords who are exploiting this housing crisis

2:23:53And I like to say a word about parking

2:23:56Just because you live in the downtown and primarily use active transportation

2:24:01Doesn't necessarily mean that you don't own a vehicle

2:24:05And I would use my family as an example

2:24:08We probably make 80 of our trips on foot

2:24:12By bike or using public transit, but we still have a vehicle sitting on our driveway

2:24:18No parking spaces in this particular building might be a novelty and might be able to be absorbed in the wilson street park aid

2:24:27But what happens when that is repeated over and over and over again in the downtown with the precedent that you set

2:24:34In no parking in additional buildings. So you need to you need to think beyond this particular application

2:24:43And a serious question I have is

2:24:47Where's the water going to come from?

2:24:49You as a council have already zoned land for housing in this city

2:24:55Which exceeds water projections to 2051

2:24:59Outgoing CAO Scott Stewart told you that when you approved the zoning change from employment to housing in the innovation district

2:25:08That you were going to have to subtract housing somewhere else

2:25:12in the city

2:25:14So what does this mean for developers other developers who have been playing by the rules?

2:25:19Are we going to run out of water before we get to their developments?

2:25:22We really seem to be entering an era of wild west construction where no rules apply anymore

2:25:31Approving 14 stories on this site would be like adding a completely separate eight-story new building to the city's plans

2:25:40And again, you have already exceeded the city's water budget

2:25:44And if you are at all concerned about citizen taxes

2:25:49The price tag of a pipeline to lake eerie in 2006 was eight

2:25:56billion dollars

2:25:57And that didn't even include the annual pumping costs

2:26:02Cost of a pipeline would add tens of thousands of dollars to property tax bills annually

2:26:09So you can't pretend to be a tax fighter

2:26:13And keep approving housing with no regard to our groundwater capacity

2:26:18So I ask that you refuse this application

2:26:22And just one last point I'd like to make I'd like to comment that while it's great to hear that skyline

2:26:28obtained a 1.5 million dollar bond with habitat for humanity

2:26:32If it's the same program that my husband and I are looking it's not a donation

2:26:37There's an offering that has

2:26:396 annual interest on those bonds and a full repayment of the initial investment at the end of the term

2:26:46Thank you. Thank you miss Watson. Are there any questions for the delegation?

2:26:53Okay, thank you

2:26:56Is there anyone else who would like to speak to the application this evening from the audience?

2:27:03No, okay. We're going to take a few minutes then

2:27:07staff is going to put up a phone number

2:27:09On the screen and we're just going to pause

2:27:12For a few minutes to see if anybody would like to

2:27:16Call in and make a delegation to cancel

2:27:48Just a few minutes just a few minutes. Okay, we're going to call everybody back and it doesn't appear to be anybody

2:30:01calling in tonight

2:30:04So I believe we have quorum

2:30:06Right. Good. Thank you

2:30:08um, so let's go back to

2:30:12council

2:30:14and ask see if anyone has any

2:30:18questions

2:30:19for

2:30:20our staff if we could just leave it to

2:30:23Questions before and again as we've often said what try not to repeat what we've already heard and concern staff has recorded at all

2:30:32Just say diddle to that issue diddle to that issue those types of things

2:30:36And um, then we'll go to yeah after the questions will go to comments. Good. Thank you councillor

2:30:42Thank you, uh, chair downer

2:30:46Through you two staff

2:30:48One of the primary concerns that seems to be coming up at infinitum is the question of parking

2:30:52And the reference is made to the wilson street of the market square

2:30:56Parkade and I don't know to which staff I should ask this but I'm wondering if

2:31:03There is some reliable report on how well used this is both during the day and at night

2:31:10What are the costs for annual parking passes?

2:31:13And from the city's perspective is at present time a lost leader cost recovery

2:31:19profitable and

2:31:20Finally if we have more than one building at 14 stories in this area

2:31:25What will be the impact on our parking potential in this area?

2:31:34Through the chair to councillor Allt

2:31:36So I may have to report back on some of that in the recommendation report that that does come back

2:31:41um

2:31:42Yeah, I'll just hold my hand. That's fine

2:31:44um

2:31:45The other question related to 14 stories. Is it possible that a building larger than six stories

2:31:51sets a precedent for downtown and for the transit corridor?

2:31:56Or if we if we can be successful with six stories

2:32:03Through the chair to the councillor so

2:32:05The official plan has various heights throughout downtown three to six stories is the height designation in which this property currently sits

2:32:13And it goes up to 18 stories

2:32:17Down at the low points close to the river that was mentioned earlier

2:32:21I will note for council that we are also

2:32:23Doing the downtown heights story with consultation starting in i think october 14th the week of october 14th

2:32:30So there'll be more of that coming forward with a draft report with the the planning the public meeting report in december of this year

2:32:39The last question was twig both by the uh by the

2:32:43the

2:32:44The developers and advocating for this particular project and also from miss watson as well

2:32:50There are concerns about infrastructure

2:32:53And water and I would I would dare it to say also power in this area as well

2:32:57Are you able to comment on what the projection is with regards to

2:33:03Improving our capacity in the downtown for water and power

2:33:09Through the chair to the the councillor so it's

2:33:12The few different prongs to this answer

2:33:15Certainly with the downtown capital

2:33:18Revitalization strategy that we talked a little bit at the special meeting with council

2:33:23A week ago. We were doing major infrastructure upgrades in the downtown the pipes are old and in a state of good repair

2:33:30They need to be repaired

2:33:31And we're also taking a look at with the downtown tight story if we can accommodate

2:33:35Additional capacity while we invest that money into infrastructure

2:33:39But as was noted there's also challenges with

2:33:43If we exceed our densities and our water

2:33:47Our population numbers that we had anticipated what what does happen long term and where does that come from and what developments

2:33:53do

2:33:54potentially

2:33:56Uh not go forward. So when we bring back the downtown heights report the end of the year

2:34:00We'll also be talking if we increase density in the downtown. What does that mean to the overall water supply?

2:34:06As was noted by the applicants

2:34:08They have the province came out with bill 185 that the city of guelph is mandated to have 150 persons and jobs per hectare in the downtown

2:34:17We are actually already planned for 200 persons and jobs

2:34:21Per hectare in the downtown and that has been accommodated and addressed in our water supply master plan

2:34:27So presuming that the infrastructure is not there to accommodate additional capacity right now

2:34:35What are we projecting out for improving the the infrastructure to do so? Is it months years?

2:34:42Is there anything specific we can look at?

2:34:46Through the chairs the counselor

2:34:48The first set of improvements are coming forward as part of that capital plan in 2026

2:34:53Which would allow some additional growth to come online in 2026

2:34:58Thank you very much

2:35:01Are there any other questions for staff counselor?

2:35:04Cossin and then clones or kate

2:35:09Yes, thank you for you madam chair to staff

2:35:12um

2:35:13counselor all brought up or

2:35:15Well was brought up that the heightened density study is coming at the end of the year

2:35:21Just a clarification that will that come directly to council? Will it be an information report?

2:35:28Uh through the chair to the counselors so there will be it will become directly to council

2:35:32There will be some public engagement in october and november with a

2:35:37public meeting under the planning act because it is a official plan amendment and and zoning bylaw amendments in december

2:35:42and then a decision meeting

2:35:45in the new year

2:35:47Okay, thank you and then through you madam chair. Will that also go through have your say will there be

2:35:52opportunities to engage through okay, thank you

2:35:55um, and then secondly

2:35:58So we just approved phase two of our downtown heritage conservation district

2:36:02And so my question is how will this be considered as part of this type of development?

2:36:07And will it be considered because I think one of my questions

2:36:11last week was

2:36:12Will there be some design guidelines for new bills and the answer to that question with yes?

2:36:18so

2:36:19given that the

2:36:21My question is when will the phase two come back?

2:36:24And how will that be considered as part of this potential development?

2:36:31Through the the chair to the counselors so the downtown heritage conservation district will come back in the

2:36:37q2 or q3 of 2025

2:36:40design guidelines will be

2:36:42considered and as was noted

2:36:44I buy a delegate tonight the applicants did a heritage study with this and it did have some recommendations that we would be looking at when it got to site plan approval to

2:36:52ensure that they were

2:36:54meeting that

2:36:56But to be fair, we're also limited with the planning act and what we can look at from site plan approval

2:37:02So we also have to take a look at that and consider that when we move forward

2:37:09Okay, thank you for that. Um, just a couple more from me through you madam chair

2:37:14I have a question. It's a process question with regard to

2:37:19um

2:37:20The delegates who spoke to the building east so 10c 42 card in

2:37:25um, and it is a process question because in the design it does look like the balconies overlook

2:37:31um

2:37:3210c and they have some potential

2:37:35Uh development that they'd like to do in the future. So

2:37:39My question is as part of next steps. Um, so

2:37:42Is it a process issue that you know, they just hadn't got to that part of the of the of the development where they would

2:37:49consult with the neighbors or

2:37:52When would they actually be doing that consultation or would that be a staff?

2:37:58role

2:38:02through the chair to

2:38:04counselor classen

2:38:08The statutory requirements for public consultation is this meeting tonight

2:38:13But I think you've heard from the applicant planning consultant and owner that they are willing to work with the neighbor

2:38:20And address their comments and after this we are also going to be

2:38:24There are going to be meeting with staff and working with staff as well and in terms of

2:38:28um

2:38:29building design and balconies and everything like that

2:38:32I think that is stuff that would be looked at through site plan approval. However, we are limited to what we can comment on through urban

2:38:39with regards to urban design

2:38:42We're limited by what the province changes provincial changes that have come about but um, I think we do have

2:38:49um

2:38:51Contact information and so if there are any further revisions or further

2:38:57engagements, um, we can get in contact with the neighboring properties

2:39:06Okay, just sticking with that one with that one for a moment through you madam chair

2:39:10Um, just to clarify then so at this point in the process then

2:39:15The consideration for the future development of the neighbors has already been done

2:39:20So from your from the staff perspective, is there any concern with regard to future development of the neighboring sites?

2:39:32Through madam chair to um the counselor so that that's something we would have to review and um

2:39:38Take back through our urban design review. Additionally

2:39:41We'd have to look at the site specific setbacks and how they would impact the adjacent properties development potential

2:39:47We obviously don't want to put in

2:39:50Zoning regulations that would sterilize an adjacent property

2:39:53For future development. Um, so that is that is something that we'd have to look at as part of our review a full review of the application

2:40:03Okay, thank you. I appreciate the clarification

2:40:05on that one

2:40:07And then finally my question is just with regard to some of the requests for the studies

2:40:12Made by one of the delegates. I think there was a shade study and then perhaps that snow

2:40:18Uh study as well based on the height of the building

2:40:20Is that something that also comes at this next part of the review application of the review of the application?

2:40:28through

2:40:30Madam chair to the counselor so the the applicant did submit

2:40:34Um, a sudden shadow study which is currently under review

2:40:37Um with regards to the snow study that's I've never seen one requested through a development planning act application

2:40:44I can follow up with our building department if it's if that's a typical study required as part of a building permit

2:40:50um, but I'm I'm not sure if

2:40:54I haven't seen one required

2:40:55So that's and that wasn't something that staff had specifically requested as part of a complete application for this but

2:41:02We can certainly follow up on that

2:41:06Okay, thank you. I'm sorry. I'm just reviewing my notes madam chair. Can I ask one more question?

2:41:12Yep, this is a time. Okay. This will be my last one

2:41:16So as part of the downtown secondary plan, we've talked about how the height identified was three to six stories for this specific area

2:41:24with higher developments

2:41:27Recommended for outer areas of the downtown. I just would like to hear from staff about why

2:41:33This recommendation was in the downtown secondary plan particularly after

2:41:38The delegate miss watson

2:41:40Pointed out that there was a lot of public consultation that went into this and it took four years

2:41:45For us to pull together. So I just I wanted to get a bit of clarity on on why

2:41:49Three to six stories is was the recommendation in the first place

2:41:58Well, our downtown secondary plan. I believe was approved over 10 years ago

2:42:02um

2:42:03And that was as you've heard from some of the delegates

2:42:07extensive consultation

2:42:09And that was looked at comprehensively. So in terms of why it was actually

2:42:14I'd have to go back into the history and see if there was any comments or

2:42:18And I wasn't around for that and I wasn't directly involved with the downtown secondary plan at the time

2:42:23um

2:42:25So we'd have to go and do some research on that but it is it is what was approved and what

2:42:31We heard back from public engagement

2:42:33um

2:42:35I don't have an answer for you at this time

2:42:38Okay, yeah, I'd certainly appreciate uh through you madam chair

2:42:43clarification on that

2:42:45As well as the planning justification for it. Thank you

2:42:49Okay, thank you. We have counselor kainton and then counselor too

2:42:55Thank you through you madam chair

2:42:57um

2:42:58Question is staff has the bill the provincial bill been challenged due to the lack of accessible parking or impact to

2:43:05um accessible pickup

2:43:07on the properties yet

2:43:11Uh through the chair to the counselor not that we're aware of it yet

2:43:16Thank you and through the chair

2:43:19what

2:43:20methods or processes exist to mitigate dust to the adjacent buildings in the square and the splash pad during construction

2:43:32Yeah, through the chair to the counselor. I think that is an important consideration that would be considered as

2:43:37Part of the site plan approval and prior to a building permit being issued

2:43:42great and um

2:43:45Through the chair, what is the property property tax value of this?

2:43:50billing at 14 floors versus six floors

2:43:57Through the chair to the council. I don't have that number in front of me. We uh report in our recommendation reports or what are the

2:44:04What are the tax values?

2:44:06on the height that staff recommend

2:44:11And thank you through the chair final question

2:44:14Uh, would staff be able to comment on miss watson's math of development fees versus our ability to negotiate for better than 20

2:44:22percent lower than market rate on this development?

2:44:28Um, not fully but we at this time, but we took some ample notes and we can report back in the uh final report

2:44:35um, I will say that the province does set our affordability our affordable rents or our affordable port

2:44:41purchase and it's the

2:44:4320 percent reduction so the 80 percent or

2:44:48the um income value which it is and for 2025

2:44:52For example, a purchase price is 398,000 and Guelph so it takes the lower of the of the two

2:44:58So it's it's a bit of a complication that we get from the province. It's not just one or the other

2:45:03Thank you very much

2:45:07Thank you councillor chou

2:45:10Through you madam chair

2:45:12I'm just I just want to piggyback off of councillor Klassen and just her exploration on how the

2:45:18New new tall building guidelines are gonna maybe help out with this process

2:45:23He you got he may be elaborate on how

2:45:26Some of the design principles will kind of help with this

2:45:30Direct application

2:45:32And how it can further inform how we view heights and densities

2:45:36Because you did mention that the last secondary plan was is about 10 years old and

2:45:42It's there's it's limitations on how we

2:45:46comment and

2:45:48Like even with the restrictions that you guys have

2:45:51with the province

2:45:53How can this help us essentially with this conversation we're trying to have

2:45:58With infill and all that

2:46:05To councillor chou

2:46:07That's something we're gonna have to report back on in terms of

2:46:11As we've noted the study hasn't is starting. I think the week of october 14. So that's something we'll have to review

2:46:18Um in conjunction with with the review of the application

2:46:24And report back on

2:46:26And I guess just just as a precursor what could we expect with the heights and density study?

2:46:34A little teaser if you have any

2:46:37Thank you through the chair of the council

2:46:38So we we don't have that it's part of this development application

2:46:41It's a separate undertaking that'll have its own consultation

2:46:46I will say now in in the applicants planning and justification report you will notice that there are

2:46:50zoning regulations that talk about tower separation

2:46:54for above

2:46:57Well 13 stories and above or below 13 stories. There's different regulations. So

2:47:01They have asked through their application for some amendments to those regulations and staff will comment on those when we come back as well

2:47:08Yeah, and I think just to further the conversation the future for future applications

2:47:13Like will these guidelines touch on tower separation?

2:47:17Um and all that good stuff

2:47:22Uh, yes it will and it's already in the zoning bylaw. Okay. Thank you

2:47:27Hey councillor bruce. Thank you and through you madam chair to uh to staff

2:47:33um, I think councillor Caton already asked this but it was more around the calculations of one of the delegations

2:47:40um

2:47:41Ms. watson made and

2:47:44My question is about the parkland dedication comment

2:47:48That was raised or the concern and the connection between that and the downtown parkland funding

2:47:55Um, if you're able to comment great if not if it comes back later, I just kind of am missing that context

2:48:04Yeah, through the chair to the the councillor. So we will provide that calculation when it comes back, but uh

2:48:10The delegate was correct. The province did reduce the parkland dedication that we can collect by 50%

2:48:16Thank you. Um, and then the second is is a clarification. I think I heard the delegation

2:48:23The developers speak about guelph has the lowest vacancy rate if you could just

2:48:29That's not my understanding if you could just clear that up for me, please

2:48:34Uh through the chair to the councillor

2:48:36um

2:48:38Vacancy rates are published by cmhc and I did a google actually when that was

2:48:44That was said, um

2:48:47We are low our target is 3 we are 1.3

2:48:50percent, so we are low

2:48:52The applicant did the applicant did say the only misspality worse than us was kingston

2:48:58There are several with even lower

2:49:01vacancy rates

2:49:02When I look on the the data from cmhc

2:49:06Um, you know halldom and county woodstock peter burrow king well kingston. They did mention

2:49:13um

2:49:14Norfolk county, so there are quite a quite a few municipalities that are lower than us. It's uh problem

2:49:21province wide country wide continent wide in some areas

2:49:24Um, but yes, we are low, but we are not the lowest

2:49:29If that's all madam and chair

2:49:30Okay, thank you. Uh mayor guthrie is the question

2:49:34I'm uh chair

2:49:39I'm just wondering do we have urban design guidelines now about um

2:49:45Like antennas and stuff like that that are put on top of buildings

2:49:49I know that when the first tri-car building came to us downtown

2:49:54We were pretty adamant to

2:49:57not

2:49:58Have that kind of struggles types of structures on top of buildings

2:50:04Um that have that kind of height

2:50:07And you confirm that that's changed since then or not. I can't remember

2:50:13Through the chair to the mayor

2:50:14so it's usually a specific requirement that comes as part of a condominium application and

2:50:20It's been implemented on several of the more recent high density projects downtown

2:50:27Okay, um, so that could be applicable to hear through you chair to

2:50:33Krista

2:50:36Uh through the chair. Yes, we could make that as only regulation

2:50:41Okay, uh, thank you. I have no more questions for staff. Thank you chair

2:50:46Okay, uh with seeing no

2:50:49Councillor Billings, do you have questions?

2:50:52I do

2:50:53Okay, go ahead

2:50:55Through you madam chair

2:50:57We've heard about the wilson street park head being underutilized

2:51:02Um, so this would accommodate some of the parking needs if required

2:51:07So I just wanted to know as far as permit parking. What is the availability?

2:51:13currently right now with the park gate

2:51:18through um

2:51:20Madam chair to councillor billings. That's something we'll have to follow up with our downtown staff and I know they do have

2:51:26Those numbers. I just don't have them available right now

2:51:30Okay, thank you. Also through you madam chair as far as timing with this application

2:51:35Um, when does planning staff feel that they'll come back either with an approval or refusal of this application?

2:51:47Through the chair to councillor billings. Um, we're going to have to finish our review of the submitted documents

2:51:57And review all the comments and um

2:52:02Comments made at the public meeting tonight and bring it back

2:52:05Um, I would say within the next couple of months and see if we're obviously work with the developer to see if there's

2:52:11changes that

2:52:12Can be made to the proposal

2:52:15But we will we do expect a quick turnaround for this application as well

2:52:21Okay, the reason through you madam chair. I'm asking with respect to timing

2:52:25If the density and the height

2:52:28Drought report isn't coming back to the end of the year

2:52:32Then and that's just a draft. That's not even approval by council. We still have the

2:52:38downtown secondary plan that states

2:52:41um

2:52:43To a max six stories

2:52:45So I'm really not understanding unless unless planning staff has alluded to the applicant that they could go

2:52:53Higher than six stories that this is problematic

2:52:57So has there been any indication from planning staff to the applicant that planning staff could recommend something higher than

2:53:06Six stories at this point in time

2:53:12so through the

2:53:15Through the chair to the councillor so we do have a meeting already set up for next week with the applicant to talk about various heights

2:53:22um, and we

2:53:23Do not work know exactly if it's going to change at this point in time. So that will depend on our recommendation

2:53:29Um, there is one other option that the applicant could consider

2:53:34Um, if they want to pause or defer it, but that will be

2:53:38We would want that in writing from them. The province did change the regulations as far as bill 185

2:53:44um that

2:53:45The penalties do not apply which was our previous rush to get things to to council within the

2:53:52120 days for an official plan amendment or there was financial penalties for the municipality

2:53:57If the applicant wanted to extend that timeline and we received something in writing staff could consider that

2:54:04Well, thanks. That's good to know. Krista. Thank you. Thank you madam chair. Okay. Are there any other questions?

2:54:13See now we'll go to comments and first I have councillor on

2:54:20Thank you and through you chair downer

2:54:23um

2:54:26I've heard from overwhelming me from my constituents that that we need the housing

2:54:31And at the same time that there are posts of the 14 stories

2:54:34My my main concern with the application

2:54:37Is the ad hoc nature that it would create in downtown. So I I would ask staff to

2:54:43to consider

2:54:45working with the the applicant so that

2:54:48They can postpone their application until such a time as we have a comprehensive plan for the downtown that allows for this

2:54:56Um application to take place

2:54:58Um, I would be very happy to support this development application

2:55:02And I know we've heard all about

2:55:04A set of things that it will bring to the city, but I'm really concerned

2:55:07At how it would effectively break our downtown secondary plan and that is my main concern at this point. Thank you

2:55:16Hey councillor Caton

2:55:19Thank you through you chair

2:55:22I'm not opposed to extra height. I do think it is good for the economy

2:55:26I think it does good things for the businesses downtown

2:55:29And I think that vibrancy is important

2:55:32especially the availability of student

2:55:35housing

2:55:36Or any apartment students can afford given that we're going to have connoisseur in your bike

2:55:41Uh, but the devil's in the details. So not all

2:55:45height buildings are going to be created equal and I see that there's been a lot of

2:55:49Issues with it as presented tonight

2:55:52um, I hope that they come back and work with staff

2:55:56to

2:55:57make something that addresses all those concerns

2:56:01and

2:56:02Has something that's truly affordable in terms of trade off because

2:56:07um

2:56:0820% off

2:56:10Is not

2:56:11I know that the province says that's affordable, but it's really not

2:56:14So I'd be interested to see in what the developer comes back with

2:56:21Okay, thank you. Could I have somebody put the

2:56:24the motion to receive

2:56:26On the floor again. This is just uh, councillor Allt and councillor Goller

2:56:30Um, this is just to point out someone that said that's to turn it down make a decision tonight

2:56:36We're not here to make a decision. We're here to

2:56:38receive input and receive the report

2:56:41Uh, do you have comments? Thank you very much chair

2:56:45Downer, um, I do have some concerns about the height and uh, it really stems from some fairly important principles

2:56:53Uh, the the massing to me strikes me as being inordinate. Uh, given that particular site

2:56:59I'm not opposed to higher buildings, but I do remind people that clearly engineering studies have indicated

2:57:05Anything above 10 stories is actually energy inefficient

2:57:08Regardless how it's built and we should take that into consideration

2:57:13Equally

2:57:14Important is that I I really think that our delegates have brought some

2:57:19Some significant concerns here that we need to address and if we look similarly

2:57:25at other cities that have been successful at

2:57:29sustaining the dynamism of their their cores and my my best example is the principle of development that occurs in

2:57:36Paris, France where we're for the most part development is limited to six stories

2:57:41I think that uh, we don't have to reinvent anything

2:57:44We just have to go with best practices and best practices are clearly showing that lower for all intents and purposes

2:57:50Can still achieve the density that we wish downtown and we can see it spread out and and made on a

2:57:59More human scale

2:58:02Are there any other comments that we haven't heard tonight?

2:58:05council gives it

2:58:09Through your chair Downer

2:58:11Good questions my questions were early were answered. Um, I my questions were around servicing water

2:58:17And the ability to do that on size building the size

2:58:21um

2:58:22I guess my my

2:58:24Question and my challenge to staff as we take this away is

2:58:28Are we looking at the downtown and we're looking at the the built form for the next 20 30 years?

2:58:34Are we looking at the built form for the next?

2:58:3650 to 75 years because it would seem to me that the last time

2:58:41Someone took a real

2:58:43discerning look at this property was 1950 when they built it and and now we're taking another big discerning look at it

2:58:50which potentially takes that to

2:58:52um

2:58:53All it's not hard to think about 2100

2:58:56Before someone takes another discerning look at it. So I want to look at it from that perspective

2:59:01Uh, and whether or not there would be more if not multiple sites that are going to be 10 plus stories in our downtown

2:59:08By that time because I think it's it's easily it's easily conceivable that there will be so I do think that we

2:59:15Should try and get to yes on something

2:59:17Whether it's 14 or or 10 or six

2:59:21But I do think that um, we should be welcoming this type of development because I think it does support the

2:59:26I think it does support the the plans for students in our downtown as well as uh more rentals

2:59:32We all know we need thank you

2:59:36Councillor classon

2:59:40Yes, thank you. Um, I would just like to say that I I largely agree that um, and I I want to ditto a lot of the things that

2:59:48my fellow counselor goller mentioned about

2:59:51um

2:59:52Where what we've been hearing from constituents is overwhelmingly we need housing

2:59:56But the height is a bit of a challenge

2:59:59I I know that we need residential development downtown and improved commercial spaces and having a refresh downtown is

3:00:08Certainly something that is on all of our minds and we're about to invest heavily in our downtown

3:00:13um with that considered this this is a

3:00:17What some have called a precedent setting development or it could be it

3:00:22um is passed by council and so

3:00:25In that consideration, I just I'd like to invite us to think about you know the vision of our downtown and and what we're setting out

3:00:32And all the work that we've done and that we're currently doing as we're looking

3:00:37to the future

3:00:38I I think that it's great to consider

3:00:42Residential development and commercial stations. We need them and we need our businesses and building owners downtown to be able to

3:00:49Build and develop their their spaces as they need to however

3:00:54We also need to think about the architecture. We need to think about the the sustainability

3:00:59How long is this going to this building going to be vital for?

3:01:03Is it going to look like it's aged in 10 years?

3:01:07If we do go ahead with with height, is it really something that fits into our vision of what we want?

3:01:14Guelph to be at this point. I'd really like to see

3:01:18More meaningful engagement with the neighbors

3:01:21I think it's really important into and it's part of our job to make sure that the community is being respected as we

3:01:28As we develop and it's also important that we respect the the plans that we've created ourselves

3:01:34so i'm i'm here for

3:01:36investing in wealth and for

3:01:38residential development in a way that makes sense and fits into the vision of

3:01:43Thanks

3:01:46Thanks, sir councillor bruce. Thank you very much

3:01:51And I'm going to echo the mayor and ditto a lot of what has already been said by my colleagues, you know

3:01:57Councillor goller and councillor Klassen. Thank you

3:02:00You know the vision for downtown was something that I was really trying to tease out from the delegations as well

3:02:06Lots of concerns raised by the delegates. Thank you for coming

3:02:10But I want to conclude and I concur with councillor gibson that I I'd like to see us get to yes

3:02:17And encourage the staff to work with the developer. Thank you. Are there any other comments councillor Chew?

3:02:26Thank you, madam chair

3:02:29I I just want to say I really appreciate

3:02:32Everyone's comments in the room including my council colleagues, especially

3:02:36I would love for us to get to a yes because I think

3:02:39There are many ways in which we can work with our developers and work with

3:02:45Our current our current process of trying to get to get a downtown heights

3:02:51Guideline and study like every major city has some sort of tall building guidelines and it's meant for us to have

3:02:59more

3:03:00fine-grained conversations on how we address infill which is

3:03:04The reality in which we need to

3:03:07Figure out and 10 years ago. We weren't talking about infill whatsoever and that wasn't necessarily a major consideration in

3:03:15our downtown secondary plan, but now

3:03:18infill is

3:03:19Very much at the forefront and we need to find ways and to use heights setbacks architectural treatments

3:03:26to as a as

3:03:28as tools for us to have conversations rather than

3:03:31I have a prescriptive yes or no whether we want something tall or not because

3:03:36That our downtown is not binary in nature and we certainly don't want to have a homogenous skyline

3:03:42and I think we have a very

3:03:44well-defined street and block pattern that's

3:03:47That's very historic predates confederation and

3:03:52Heights don't necessarily will not necessarily take away from that

3:03:56culture in which we're trying to celebrate with

3:03:59The vibe that we're trying to create downtown. So I think there are ways in which the developer can

3:04:05Reconsider their variation and articulation of their tower. Maybe there are ways in which you can get the podium a little bit

3:04:13Higher so it doesn't encumber

3:04:1610c and what they're trying to do in the future and

3:04:19Presently with the rooftop gardens because

3:04:22Privacy accessible parking those are all made major considerations

3:04:26We have to take seriously and we can't have these conversations unless we are able to go

3:04:32With a finer grain lens. So I really hope that this study that we're going to receive in october with the public engagement

3:04:40It can consider some of the conversations behind the scenes that the developer is going to have with staff

3:04:45So, yeah, I appreciate everyone's comments and discussion today. Thank you

3:04:52I'm mayor Guthrie through you

3:04:58um, I just wanted to recognize that this this actually is a pretty pivotal moment for

3:05:06such a development, um, especially around height and so I just want to recognize that

3:05:13Uh and not dismiss it. However

3:05:15Um, there were there were some comments tonight that made me feel very uncomfortable madam chair and

3:05:22You know, I just want to say that um

3:05:25You know this

3:05:26this developer

3:05:29Is a homegrown

3:05:31wealth developer that has not only the roots, but I believe has the best interest for our downtown

3:05:39and

3:05:41They they do play by the rules

3:05:45The fact that we're having this conversation tonight

3:05:48Transparently in an open public meeting is because they followed the rules

3:05:53They made an application and people might not like that due to some of the

3:05:58issues that have arisen

3:06:00We may not like that madam chair, but uh

3:06:04They followed the rules to come before us in the manner in the process that they're allowed to do

3:06:11and so I just want to

3:06:13Leverage the fact that this developer

3:06:17Is one that I know is one willing to listen and to engage

3:06:23to compromise

3:06:25and uh and can do so with uh, not only the neighbors

3:06:30Uh on on cardin or a mcdonnell, but I believe will engage

3:06:36Um, you know respectfully with our staff as well and and not dismiss some of the comments that have come forward tonight

3:06:43So I just want to say that if i'm an encouragement point of view that I think everyone should should do that engagement

3:06:51See what comes back

3:06:53And then we can see what the final recommendations are and make a decision from there

3:06:58Uh, but I'm I'm proud of this developer for doing what they're doing in our city

3:07:02And they are trying to fill a gap

3:07:05of needed housing

3:07:07in our city

3:07:08and uh

3:07:10They happen to own this property and they actually want to put a shovel in the ground and get going

3:07:15So I hope that we get to yes as quickly as possible

3:07:18And uh that we can have some very happy people living in our downtown

3:07:24exploring our downtown

3:07:26uh supporting our downtown with their wallet

3:07:29And uh and we can get an underutilized building

3:07:33more active

3:07:35And the final comment i'll make is just that

3:07:38Um, I would just encourage the developer

3:07:41to really speak to and look to see what you can do at the activation level

3:07:47of the frontage on both sides of macdenow and and

3:07:52cardin

3:07:53uh, if there is a way that you can make that beautiful and inviting and

3:07:57As part of the sort of landscape of those two streets

3:08:01I think that would go over very very well with people

3:08:05And I am not concerned with the height at all

3:08:08Okay, thank you so much

3:08:12Okay, are there any other

3:08:14comments?

3:08:16Counts for two has an additional one

3:08:18Yeah, thank you madam chair and just very quickly

3:08:21I would encourage everyone to go to the development applications web page on our city's website and

3:08:26I really take a deep look at the planning justification report that

3:08:30The consultant has put together. I think it provides us a lot of good prompts and food for thought for how we could

3:08:36better have these conversations because

3:08:39Like we have to change the tune a little bit now, right?

3:08:43and

3:08:44I think this is a good start and I'm curious how you can utilize design to

3:08:50Kind of fulfill everyone's

3:08:52Pressing concerns. So thank you

3:08:57Are there any other comments?

3:09:00So I would just say it sounds like

3:09:02consultation consultation consultation with

3:09:05staff and with the neighbors

3:09:07And I have two additional comments myself

3:09:10Is you know is around the height is that I I do hope

3:09:14That the study that we were doing

3:09:17Somehow behind the scenes kind of informs

3:09:20The outcome of this building in some way, but also just a red flag

3:09:25This is more a future operational thing that I I'm sort of raising the red flag about

3:09:31The more buildings we get downtown with no parking that we need to really limit

3:09:36The amount of permit parking we put in the parkade because

3:09:41shoppers and clients have restaurants and and

3:09:44Also need customers to be able to park somewhere

3:09:48So I don't think we can fill up the parkade with permit parking. We have to have parking for customers

3:09:55in our downtown and

3:09:57And that will it put a burden on the city to develop more parking as we will do not get

3:10:02That um DCs we do not we can't do parking parking

3:10:08Cash and lieu parking anymore

3:10:10So we just need to be aware of that when we're thinking a long way forward around the operation of these new developments

3:10:18So thank you. So I am going to call the uh

3:10:23The vote on this is there anyone opposed to receiving this application

3:10:29Okay seeing none

3:10:32We're completed with that one. Thank you everyone for coming out. It was a good discussion