And that Council direct the Mayor and Staff to advocate for noise vehicle camera technology to be legislated in Ontario when opportunities arise.

52:10Okay, I think we're good. Let's see everyone on a patio later. Okay

52:19Uh the next thing

52:22Is the bylaw review update and we do have a delegation

52:27delegation

52:30And that is donna jennison over the phone is joining us

52:35So donna it's mayor guthrie. Can you hear me?

52:44And donna if you can hear me you just got to make sure you press star six to unmute

52:56So hello donna. It's mayor guthrie. Can you hear me?

53:02You just have to press star six to unmute

53:08Oh

53:10Donna I think we almost heard you there. Can you keep talking? All right one more time

53:22Donna it's mayor guthrie. You got to press star six to unmute

53:27Can you hear me? Okay

53:35Our clerks are indicating that they see you muting and then unmuting and then muting and then unmuting yourself

53:40So again, uh, maybe just try talking

53:44As you press star six and then I'll interrupt you as I hear you

53:51Okay, I can hear that

53:53Donna can you speak for for us?

53:59all right, we're gonna have to

54:02Move on unfortunately, we will continue to have our clerks try to reach you

54:07To walk you through that as we discuss this because I have a feeling we're going to be discussing different elements of it anyways

54:14So, um, I'm going to go back to us as uh as a council

54:20um

54:21We have all of the recommendations that

54:25Have come from committee in regards to the by-law

54:29Review update, but of course there was the updated memo that was sent from staff

54:36That's attached as well with information on on much of these items

54:41Now I was about to suggest a way of maybe us working through this just to always stay on topic

54:48Um, but you have your hand up. Did you can I go first or did you want to I was just going to ask if I could

54:54Move the motions in the memo rather than the ones in the agenda

54:59Just so that we're moving the motions that are most recently suggested by staff and then we'll work from those

55:05Uh, sure, uh, if I could just ask the clerks, do do you have those ready?

55:11Okay, yes, mr. Mary. We do all right and I um, it's just the one page, right? You've got them all on the one page there

55:18Is that right? Yes

55:20all right, well as to try to keep with

55:23um, our new procedural by-law

55:26Here we go

55:28There are four of them

55:29The first one is that staff report back by october 2023 with additional information on the current work plan

55:35Of by-law reviews being undertaken by the operations department so that council

55:39Can consider any potential deletions or deferrals from the work plan

55:45Number two is that staff report back by october 2023 on potential timelines

55:51timelines and resources required to undertake a review of the existing noise by-law as it pertains to vehicle noise and the use of noise cameras

55:59The third is that staff report back by october 2023 and the potential timelines and resources required to undertake a review

56:06of the penjio potential outdoor recreational fire by-law

56:11And the last number four is that staff report back by october 2023

56:16On potential timelines and resources required to undertake a review of the existing by-law

56:21To regulate the display sale and setting off of fireworks

56:26So let me just see if there's a seconder for this to get it on the floor for a conversation at all

56:34Okay, I don't see any

56:38Yep. Yes, you are councillor Klassen

56:40Okay, okay, that's fine. Okay. There these four are on the floor then

56:44And so uh now I'll get to my suggestion, which would be let's

56:51Let's stay on one topic

56:53And deal with it and do another one. Okay, so basically I would say let's just split the four

57:00Okay, what's just it's just easier. So can you pull them back up on the screen for me clerks again one more time?

57:05It's just easier for me to see it that way

57:07uh, the first one I think is the

57:10The option of sort of like what would it take?

57:12For consideration of what's in and what's out what can be deferred

57:17Just do anyone want to speak to that one? Okay, councillor goller

57:20And uh, just your worship on this on june 9th when we received the update from staff

57:26There were some by-laws that had been

57:29waiting for a review for several years now

57:32and

57:33One concern that I have is maybe there's no longer a relevancy to have those by-laws reviewed

57:39And I would love to hear from staff through this motion to see if there any of the

57:44Planned by-laws that will be updated or created in the next four or five years are no longer needed from their perspective

57:56Okay

57:58I ask you councillor goller a question

58:02Because you're kind of the you're kind of the mover of all this kind of stuff. Do you mind if I just ask a quick question?

58:06Of course

58:10Does number one only really come into effect if any of the following three?

58:15Pass I would I would also ask maybe we can ask

58:18The staff yeah, there's my perspective if one if sorry if the second and third and the fourth fail

58:25Then why are we then why are we approving number one?

58:29Or I just want to make sure I'm doing it in the right flow that it makes sense that we're not

58:35So uh defeating something yep through the marriage council

58:39I think the advantage to number one is if there are other things on the work plan that you

58:44I think the questions came up last time there was it prompted some discussion

58:48So if you would like us to come back and revisit the work plan that is laid out before you in the information report

58:53Is as it is now

58:55So if you would like us to offer some professional advice and guidance on if there are tweaks that could be made to the work plan

59:01We can do number one

59:03In its own on its own

59:06I would suggest the converse is not true. We can't do two three or four without number one

59:13But we could do number one alone

59:16Based on the existing work plan

59:18Okay, so let's let's let's take care of number one then okay, which is not getting into the specifics of those other three

59:25It's just the overall work plan

59:27Aligned to it and then if two three and four are aligned then it then we can capture that in in it

59:32Okay, so um does anyone want to comment on the number one before I call the vote?

59:38No, okay, I'll call the vote. Is anyone against number one?

59:43That's unanimous. Thank you. Okay

59:47Um, I'm gonna go back to clerks because it just happens to be about the noise by-law and that's I think donna donna jennison

59:54Wanted to speak to that. Okay. Perfect timing then

59:57All right, donna. It's mayor guthrie. Just want to know if you can hear me this time

1:00:03this time

1:00:04Perfectly. Yep. Perfect. Oh my god. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. That was weird. Okay. Thanks so much for

1:00:11For for thanks so much for for making time for this tonight

1:00:16Um, I'm here as a member of no more noise wealth to express support for councillor Goller's motion

1:00:22regarding the noise by-law

1:00:25Apologies to folks on the wealth police services board or the committee the whole

1:00:30This delegation is going to sound eerily familiar. So some parts are the same

1:00:34So apologize for repeating myself, but the message bears repeating nonetheless

1:00:40excessive noise is the new secondhand smoke

1:00:43It's on the rise and is one of the top two environmental hazards to both physical and mental health and well-being second only to air pollution

1:00:52The vast majority of urban noise pollution is caused by traffic

1:00:56specifically vehicles with extreme engines altered mufflers

1:01:01And loud motorbikes and pickups and this kind of pollution cannot be dismissed as a trivial complaint

1:01:07Or an occasional nuisance issue studies clearly show that noise pollution

1:01:12Especially the intermittent spikes that break through background sounds

1:01:16Is a pair is a serious public health issue and loud noise triggers a fight or flight response in our bodies

1:01:23Which causes a cascade of reactions beyond our control

1:01:27Including the release of stress hormones an increase in heart rate and blood pressure and inflammation

1:01:33Which over time lead to heart disease hypertension insomnia diabetes and much more

1:01:39Experts agree our bodies do not adapt to noise

1:01:44Our bodies are always listening and processing sound even when we're asleep

1:01:49As the city grows and intensifies development on main corridors this public health problem will only increase

1:01:56So last month four community members including myself

1:02:00Delegated on this issue at the wealth police services board meeting

1:02:04And on thursday july 20th staff sergeant michael davis

1:02:08presented a report in response

1:02:11And they noted in this report among other things that the wealth police service recognizes the problem of noisy vehicles

1:02:19That concerns about vehicle noise align with two of their corporate values

1:02:24That vehicle noise is one issue among many competing priorities

1:02:29And that staffing in the traffic division is not keeping up with the demands of a growing city

1:02:37In 2022 there were approximately 295 shifts when only one traffic unit officer was on duty

1:02:46And 57 shifts when there was no traffic unit member working

1:02:50There was no reference to follow-up or problem solving

1:02:54So we're left to assume that the current police budget does not provide

1:02:59For an adequately staffed traffic division for a city of our size

1:03:04Traffic specific violations are not a high priority and low enforcement levels of either speeding or noise

1:03:12Are not being addressed and will not be addressed

1:03:15So here in wealth the possibility of being caught

1:03:19A powerful deterrent to breaking the law is very low and sometimes not non-existent and drivers know it

1:03:27So we would like the city to explore the use of noise cameras as a possible solution

1:03:32The roughly $200,000 yearly cost of just one new officer

1:03:38Could be used to deploy say four to six

1:03:43Mobile noise camera units they would provide 24 seven coverage

1:03:48And with appropriately increased fines over time there could be a small revenue stream

1:03:54Here in guelph a driver of the noisy vehicle was recently fined $110

1:04:00By comparison in february of this year's fines in edmonton for first time offenders

1:04:06We're raised to a thousand dollars and this is also the case in new york city

1:04:12So we're asking city council and staff

1:04:14Please take action to protect the health and well-being of the thousands of residents like myself and other members of our group who live on or near

1:04:23Busy corridors and intersections

1:04:26As one of our members mentioned recently when summer comes around spending time in one's yard or

1:04:33Throwing open your windows on a lovely evening should be enjoyable and not a stress or anger inducing activity

1:04:42If you could please help by bringing the noise law review review forward from 2025 into this year's review schedule period

1:04:50conduct an in-depth review of noise camera technology as a potential solution

1:04:56And advocate as required along with the city of toronto and other municipalities

1:05:02For the necessary legislative changes at the provincial level

1:05:06To allow the city to enforce noise standards and the highway traffic act using noise cameras as they already do with red light

1:05:14and speed cameras

1:05:16Our other recommendations

1:05:18Include committing to reviewing the noise bylaw every year for this very reason

1:05:23Launching a public education

1:05:26Donna, it's america 3. I'm so sorry to interrupt, but it's it's over the five minutes there and i'm so sorry. I've got to stop

1:05:31Yeah, um, but uh, thank you. Thank you so much for listening. No, no, no, no problem. Just stay with us though

1:05:37Just in case there's a follow-up to your to your uh delegation. Councillor Goller has a follow-up

1:05:43Okay, thanks

1:05:45Hello, miss jason. Thank you for your presentation

1:05:48At the onset you mentioned that you were with a group called no more noise wealth

1:05:53Could you tell me a little bit about uh, the group and how many people are are are working with you on this?

1:05:59So far we have about 20 people in our group and we have a sister organization in toronto

1:06:07No more noise toronto, which is headed up by um

1:06:10ingrid buddhae

1:06:13and

1:06:14if I could just say that

1:06:16this

1:06:18This kind of work like as as a as a concerned citizen bringing these issues forward doing the research doing the outreach

1:06:27um making connections and contact

1:06:30Building our group is it's it takes a tremendous amount of time and energy

1:06:36I know for a fact that if I was to devote more time to this and that's asking a lot at this point

1:06:43I know that I could grow our membership

1:06:46I don't think there's anyone that you would talk to in this city who wouldn't acknowledge that this is a problem

1:06:53That loud noisy vehicles revving down our city streets day and night

1:07:01Especially motorbikes is a serious problem

1:07:04So our membership is low right now

1:07:08but um

1:07:09Again, if I had the time and resources, I know we we could grow it

1:07:15Thank you very much and it grew considerably. Thanks to you, uh, patrico

1:07:19Thank you. All right

1:07:23um

1:07:24Thank you very much and uh, oh a question for the delegate

1:07:28Councillor

1:07:30Go ahead. Thank you mayor Guthrie through you to miss jennison. Thanks very much for bringing this to our attention

1:07:35I'm trying to understand how the noise camera. So they're not currently

1:07:40legal in ontario

1:07:42but if they were

1:07:44I live actually sort of an

1:07:46Intersection where there's arcle victoria and gordon not too far

1:07:50So we currently only have

1:07:52Six red light cameras and four automated speed enforcement cameras. So i'm i'm trying to get my head around

1:07:59how noise cameras

1:08:01Could be effective because if we put one on one street

1:08:04Then they're just going to zip up the other street and that the noise will travel

1:08:08So i'm just trying to get my head around that and i'm wondering what your

1:08:11group thinks about that or um

1:08:14Or what your research shows about that because it's about

1:08:18noise, right

1:08:19That will travel

1:08:23Yeah, well, it's it's about catching the noise at a certain point

1:08:29Um and at a certain level

1:08:31So so the decibel

1:08:33Meter would be set, you know, whatever whatever research

1:08:37Whatever legislation allows and that's a big discussion right there is what's the decibel level going to be

1:08:43But they they would be deployed and they would be moved around

1:08:47So they would be there might be like like one city

1:08:50um, piloted one stationary

1:08:53And five mobile units

1:08:55So they're moved around

1:08:57to

1:08:58to capture

1:09:00offenders all over the city

1:09:03And whether they're deployed at intersections or not i'm not sure it's a very new technology it's still in the

1:09:11sort of in the piloting stages

1:09:14so um

1:09:18Yeah, I think there's

1:09:20There's a lot to be found out about like from Edmonton for example Edmonton is a leader in this area

1:09:26In new york city, of course is I think the only city who's actually has them deployed

1:09:32And they're issuing uh fines

1:09:35Using the noise cameras

1:09:38So marica three if I could just follow up then

1:09:41through you to miss jennison so

1:09:43um, I appreciate that

1:09:46Given that they're not legal in Ontario under the highway traffic act

1:09:50Is it reasonable for council to explore the noise cameras really only after they they're a technology that's deployed in Ontario?

1:09:59um

1:10:00I'm just thinking about effective use of our staff time. So would that be satisfactory for your group?

1:10:04So obviously, you know, it's on the agenda. It's on the actual radar

1:10:08um

1:10:10But when we're just being cognizant of what the workloads look like

1:10:15Yes, well, that's why I think it's important for them to to as they must have someone must have done to advocate for the use of red light and speed cameras

1:10:27Speed radar systems

1:10:29Somebody did the work there

1:10:31um, I know the city of toronto is um has applied to the ministry of transportation

1:10:38Uh to amend legislation to enable the use of noise cameras

1:10:43If guelph and other municipalities were to come forward in support of that, which is what I asked in my delegation

1:10:50I think it that it may have an effect and it may open the door

1:10:55to this kind of

1:10:58This kind of the use of this kind of tool

1:11:01and I I despair of not doing anything about this because the police have

1:11:07They they they aren't able to deal with it and and and residents are paying the price

1:11:14So, you know, I think the city has an obligation to step up

1:11:19And at least ask some basic questions of the mto

1:11:25Like make way for this technology and if not, why not and let's get a good answer

1:11:31Okay, appreciate your response. Thanks very much

1:11:35Seeing no further questions donna. Thanks again and have a have a great night. Okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Good night

1:11:42Yep, take care

1:11:45All right. It's it's back to us again. We're focusing our questions on

1:11:50just

1:11:51This noise issue and the noise by-law issue

1:11:54to start with councillor Allt

1:11:57and then kate

1:11:59And then a caller, okay. Thank you very much mayor guthrie

1:12:04I am tremendously sympathetic to the concerns of the

1:12:07The delegate. I think we do need to acknowledge that noise is pollution

1:12:11Just ask our mums when we listen to everyone from Elvis to Alanis and beyond that when they used to say turn that noise down

1:12:18That that is indeed the case. However, I also recognize that we are in a challenge on this and therefore

1:12:25I would like to move an amendment by substitution this coming from the mayor and I think it's a great proposal

1:12:46No problem. Sorry for those

1:12:49Watching on tv. We had a technical difficulty an amendment by substitution

1:12:54To read that council direct staff to report back to council

1:12:59For further consideration when noise enforcement cameras become available in the province of Ontario. I'm looking for a seconder

1:13:08Seconded by councillor Richardson. Oh, I'm sorry. Who'd you say?

1:13:12Okay, Richardson. Okay, perfect

1:13:15All right. Thank you and councillor Goller. I think you had an amendment to add to this one. Go ahead

1:13:21uh, yes, yes your worship and and uh as

1:13:24As that gets pulled up. I wanted to speak to the to the um to the amendment

1:13:31My concern with the wording of that amendment is that we need to proactively advocate for this at the provincial level

1:13:38Um

1:13:39Right now we know that it's happening in Alberta. It's the city of Edmonton is doing it successfully

1:13:45But unless municipalities in Ontario actively say we want this same legislative

1:13:53Ability um to to be brought here to Ontario. We need to actively advocate for that

1:13:59Uh to that end I am moving the amendment that I just sent the clerks

1:14:03Um, and it says and that council director may earn staff to advocate for noise vehicle

1:14:10Camera technology to be legislated in Ontario when opportunities arise

1:14:15Great. Thank you. So councillor Allt will second that too on the advocacy piece

1:14:19Is there any questions on just the advocacy piece? I wouldn't mind just calling the vote on that. I think

1:14:23It looks like I can so i'm going to call the vote on just a councillor Goller

1:14:27Table there as the amendment to to the substitution there. So uh, is anyone against that?

1:14:34Nobody that's unanimous. Thank you. So coming back to the main motion now

1:14:38Um as tabled and as amended, uh, is there anything further on that councillor Goller?

1:14:44Uh, thank you through your worship. Um, so the the june 9 report indicated that the noise

1:14:50um control bylaw would be uh reviewed in 2025

1:14:55Uh, just for clarity with the motion that is being now put forward

1:15:00If perhaps if we could ask the clerks to put the whole

1:15:02thing on the on the on the screen, I just wanted to see

1:15:07How this may or may not impact the timing of the noise bylaw review happening in 2025 and

1:15:14What may be considered as part of that review or not considered?

1:15:18So through the mayor if I can just clarify it is simply scheduled b of the noise bylaw that is in the current work plan

1:15:24Which is the map?

1:15:25Um, the entire noise bylaw is not scheduled for review in 2025

1:15:30so, uh, I

1:15:32I think my interpretation or our interpretation is that if this motion were to pass we would then come back

1:15:39Um and report back once the noise cameras are legal and we would report back to you on how that impact

1:15:45How that would impact the work plan that has no bearing on the

1:15:48Revisiting of the map as scheduled in 2025

1:15:54And uh, and as a follow-up to that

1:15:56The the additional wording that the mayor and staff advocate for noise vehicle camera technology to be legislated in Ontario

1:16:05How how might that play out would it be that whenever we go to AMO?

1:16:09It's something that we bring to the table or you know at what opportunities does the city of wealth have an

1:16:15Have input into the ministry of transportation of Ontario

1:16:19So through the mayor to council goller this I miss sales is here in the audience

1:16:24And so she didn't know this was coming so probably isn't prepared to speak to it, but she's coming down

1:16:31So I'm gonna let her talk

1:16:35Just just as jody comes down if I could just jump in because it is as opportunities arise

1:16:40So I I am actually happy to um like email back to council

1:16:45Just to say if I do happen to run into the minister at AMO or if I do have a delegation or if I'm talking to somebody in the upper level of government

1:16:53And I broach this conversation. I will absolutely tell council. Hey, I just I just did this that way you know that the advocacy has occurred

1:17:01But uh jody from intergovernmental and such can can jump in on the staff side

1:17:07So through you mr. Mayor, you know

1:17:09Again, I'll just offer words of caution to these things

1:17:12We obviously have to prioritize what we want to discuss with various ministers

1:17:17We don't always get an audience with them, but is this our top priority?

1:17:21So I think as a group that is going to AMO it can be on that list and then I think again

1:17:26It has to have some discussion, you know, they might ask us. Well, why do you want it?

1:17:31And then are we the right advocates for it if we're like, no, well, we don't really want it

1:17:35We want it when it arrives if you want it

1:17:37That's not great advocacy. So I think there's got to be some thought to this as well that it just we just can't we can do it

1:17:44But then we've got it. Is this the thing we want with the minister of transportation

1:17:49So if that's we want mr. Mulroney to deal with it, that's the guave ask

1:17:53So is that a higher priority than to ask that or at play with the AMO delegations?

1:17:57I think that should be a bit of a discussion

1:18:00That to be had as well

1:18:02Because you know how mr. Mayor you especially know how it works because you've been going to all of these

1:18:06There's a limited time before the knock on the door happens

1:18:09So again, if this is our number one priority, we can deliver that on behalf of council

1:18:14But if you would give some consideration to other things if we have an audience with that minister

1:18:19It may not be the number one priority

1:18:20And I think that's a fair piece for you to also contemplate

1:18:24As you put this as a play and it could be a discussion with the AMO delegation

1:18:29Council delegation that's going in that and and two weeks

1:18:34Yeah, that that's fair. I

1:18:36I'll be honest with you. I wasn't going to lead with hey, we got a noise camera problem

1:18:39But but at the same time, you know, I have lots of discussions or you run into somebody

1:18:44You know, it's there's there's opportunities that might arise as the motion stated and has already passed by the way

1:18:50so

1:18:52Jody did you want to pipe in or did oh, okay?

1:18:54Did oh

1:18:55But fair enough as the delegation gets ready to go and we got to make sure it's aligned to our intergovernmental plan as well

1:19:01That's also a council approved policy too. So

1:19:05The point the point of this is that it's not being ignored. I think that's the overall point. Okay, so it's it's a gesture

1:19:13It's a gesture to not only the delegate and not only those, you know, maybe 20 people

1:19:19But let's be honest. There's probably several there's more than 20 people that are upset about it

1:19:23Including this guy. So, you know, it is an issue

1:19:27This is a nice. I think appropriate gesture from council to say we recognize what you're saying

1:19:32There is a problem

1:19:34Opportunities arise to address it to the upper level of government. We'll do that. We'll figure out the process wise

1:19:39But I think I think it's a nice gesture back to the community to say we've heard you

1:19:44No pun intended

1:19:47I'm just going to go back to the person who has the floor which is councillor Goller

1:19:50And I did see councillor caton

1:19:52Hand up earlier

1:19:54Councillor caton. Did you still want to pipe in on this one as well? I just want yes. Yes or no

1:19:58No, all my things were handled

1:20:00Okay, so after councillor Goller, I'll go to you councillor altre

1:20:03Thank you worship. I I will be voting against the alternate

1:20:08uh

1:20:09wording for this motion

1:20:11Because this

1:20:13Does not get us to stop reviewing the noise control bylaw and exploring opportunities on how we can bring noise control cameras

1:20:21I think that by moving to to an advocacy only approach

1:20:25We lose the opportunity to see how this could work in wealth

1:20:29And we lose the prioritization

1:20:31Because at this point what I've just heard is that then this goes at the bottom of a list of asks

1:20:37And that that will not be be prioritized. So I will

1:20:41Ask my council colleagues to support the original

1:20:45wording of the motion which is to

1:20:48include an exploration of noise control cameras vehicle noise cameras as part of the noise control bylaw

1:20:57review that is happening

1:20:59So, okay. Thank you

1:21:01I I just want to be really clear

1:21:04Because I just I don't I don't want to say that what you're saying is wrong at all. It's just trying to help

1:21:10The original motion as the substitution from councillor Allt

1:21:14Literally says when they are available in Ontario come and tell us

1:21:19That could happen in a week

1:21:21That could happen in in a year. We don't know what but whenever that happens

1:21:26Staff are required to come and tell us

1:21:29And then on top of that we are going to be doing advocacy work as the opportunities arise

1:21:35So just to help you I'm hearing you say don't vote for that

1:21:39I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for that. It's your it's your decision

1:21:43I don't understand why you wouldn't vote for that when

1:21:47That very information that we're requesting from staff could come back before the review where we could then give further directions to staff to implement it

1:21:55Even before the noise bylaw review

1:21:57So I don't I

1:22:00I'm sorry. I don't mean to I'm not trying to counter you

1:22:02I just want to make sure that everyone is clear because I saw a lot of people not not quite understanding why you wouldn't want to vote for us to

1:22:07Give direction to staff and just want to make sure you understood. That's all thank you worship and my rationale this morning

1:22:13We received that an update from staff members know that there was a conversation

1:22:17Uh with different municipalities and the city of toronto was the only one that identified this as a priority

1:22:23And no one else around the table said this is a priority for us and we don't so

1:22:28My my concern is that the way that this motion on the floor is worded. It does not become

1:22:35Um, something that the city will actively advocate for

1:22:39the other motion that

1:22:41would have us

1:22:43Give direction for staff to explore and see what would be needed to bring vehicle control bylaws

1:22:49I expect the response will be something like this needs to be legislated and then at that point

1:22:54We can give direction knowing fully what can happen. It could be that the

1:23:00After the staff review they could say well, actually we can have

1:23:03Vehicle noise cameras and bylaw officers could be the ones enforcing this before we have

1:23:10Direction from the province. So it it actually gives

1:23:13More room for an exploration. I think that this

1:23:16Eliminates any exploration at this point and puts us on a wait and see basis. So that is my concern

1:23:25Yeah, yeah, we just like active exploration of what it would take rather than sitting back and waiting for it to happen

1:23:32Okay, no problem, uh, councillor Allt and then I'd like to call the vote on this. Thank you very much, mayor

1:23:37Mayor Guthrie. Um, I appreciate your comments that you had said earlier. I will correct one thing

1:23:43I think this is more than a gesture and I don't want anybody to believe it is just a gesture

1:23:47I think that this is something that's very very important

1:23:50The reason that I moved it is that I believe that it actually is tangible in the sense that it's moving

1:23:55It's us forward. I could ask staff right now whether we can actually

1:24:00Make anything concrete of the original motion and the answer would be clearly. No

1:24:05I think what we need to recognize is that wealth is in the forefront of this and we need to take credit from

1:24:12What actually was proposed in the amendment that that I put forward

1:24:16It's like what we did was smoking here about 35 years ago when smoking was not considered something that communities could do

1:24:24We've taken a big step here. It's not a gesture

1:24:27It's recognizing noise as a real concern and recognizing that our job now

1:24:32Is to move the province along in a fashion that is appropriate

1:24:37I want to recognize that in many respects people say this is not a police issue and in some senses

1:24:42I tend to agree with them. I think there are other issues that we want the police to deal with

1:24:46But I also recognize that if the technology right now

1:24:50Is lacking or is wanting that we're sending staff off on something futile

1:24:57And I also want to recognize that ammo is not our only avenue

1:25:00There are many other opportunities through miss sales and through staff to do precisely what counselor galler's amendment suggested

1:25:09I'm not just waiting for amel. I'm talking about moving this forward and being leaders in this and I think our community

1:25:16Will take a great deal of faith in that knowing full well that while the technology isn't there now

1:25:23We're going to act upon that when the technology arrives

1:25:26Okay, I would like just to have a point of personal privilege for a second

1:25:35It felt a little bit like you were dismissing when I said the word gesture

1:25:39And okay, you can have a lot of gestures in good faith

1:25:44And that's what I meant by that. So I just don't want my wording to be

1:25:49Misinterpreted by yourself or others when I was saying that I was

1:25:54Giving a gesture because I felt it was of

1:25:57Importance, okay? So in other words, we're singing from the same song sheet

1:26:01I just didn't want it to be left out there that I was not

1:26:05Saying it in a positive way in a meaningful way and in good faith. Absolutely. That's right. That's the way I took it

1:26:11I was more concerned that people heard just the word gesture. They would think it's just a gesture

1:26:16Like waving at somebody. Yep, or other fingers

1:26:20All right, uh, did you have a comment counselor or work and then I'll call the vote

1:26:26Thank you Margot three. So uh, just a comment that

1:26:30Gulf police can enforce currently very loud mufflers

1:26:35If people know of one or know where it happens frequently, they can use the gulf police online reporting tool

1:26:42The gulf police do a muffler may

1:26:46So it's not like there's there's no recourse at all. So

1:26:50Obviously, nobody likes it when you're you're sitting in your front yard or your backyard and you hear

1:26:54A loud muffler or somebody racing

1:26:57Nobody likes that

1:27:00But there are some immediate remedies there are some potential future remedies

1:27:05But I take the point around prioritize prioritization

1:27:08I really do. I mean we have a strap plan and we need to be looking at you know, we said vision zero

1:27:15So I see the noise cameras potentially

1:27:19As part of that vision zero because if you're making that much noise, you're probably going too fast

1:27:24right, so

1:27:26So I I do take the prioritization point seriously. There's only so much staff time

1:27:31We know inter governmental has had 40 consultations this year on really fundamental things

1:27:38So I think there are things we can do for advocacy and conversation

1:27:42Um, but I I do think that has to be in proportion with the other priorities in the strap plan

1:27:54Go ahead. Councillor. Thank you worship. Just two points of clarification

1:27:58Uh to councillor old the technology is here. We just need the legislative framework

1:28:03But other municipalities edmonton new york are doing this and issuing tickets

1:28:07So that the technology is here and if we wanted to we could we could be be doing more and to councillor roc's point

1:28:14Police can but during muffler made they gave zero violations

1:28:18There were no tickets issued because it is not a priority for guff police and and in fairness

1:28:23They have lots of things to work on but just because they're able to they're not doing it

1:28:28So so I my request is that we do something a little more proactive to to ease that

1:28:36responsibility from police services that have their hands full with other issues

1:28:40So that then we can look for the technology

1:28:42Sooner

1:28:44Then as soon as possible. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. I'd really like to call the vote. So I am calling the vote

1:28:52on the amendment

1:28:54of the amendment

1:28:55And then I have to call the vote like the main

1:28:59amendment as the substitution

1:29:01So I am about to call the vote then that we've already called the vote on the advocacy piece

1:29:06And now we are calling the vote on the that main portion that was added

1:29:12Okay, so is anyone against that?

1:29:16Okay, so only councillor Goller so that passes

1:29:20And now I am calling the vote

1:29:22as

1:29:23As for the amendment of this as a substitution. I have to do it one more time. Okay

1:29:28So, uh, it's it's the same thing that you just saw on the screen. Is anyone against that?

1:29:34And again only councillor Goller is against that so that passes

1:29:38All right. Thank you. All right. Let's keep moving along outdoor

1:29:42recreational fire burning

1:29:45bylaw

1:29:47smokeless recreational wood burning fires

1:29:51All right, that's already been moved

1:29:53Uh and seconded so does anyone have anything to do with with okay councillor downer?

1:30:00Go ahead. Yeah, I I don't support reviewing this. I think the band needs to stay in place. We've got

1:30:06forest fire smoke happening

1:30:08in southern Ontario now

1:30:10and there's a lot of people who have

1:30:14Sensitivities to this not only that's it's a some pleasant for a lot of neighborhoods. So

1:30:20I'm quite happy with the band that we currently have

1:30:23Okay, thank you anything else or work then I'll go to uh galler and then alts

1:30:28Well through you America three I'd like to ask our staff what their position is on

1:30:33revocation of that ban and any

1:30:36Concerns they or the fire chief would have

1:30:40Through America three to councillor roark. Yes. So certainly since the first meeting staff had an opportunity to meet and discuss it further

1:30:46and

1:30:47there are risks both in terms of

1:30:49The actual air quality related to smoke

1:30:53But even with smokeless wood burning appliances, there is still a considerable risk associated with the flammability

1:30:59So we've talked to I've talked to our current acting fire chiefs

1:31:02But I've also spoken to our incoming fire chief. He unfortunately doesn't start until monday

1:31:07And so I couldn't get that documented for you tonight or in writing

1:31:10But I verbally spoke with him and got his permission to share with you that he will not

1:31:15Give his support for any change in the bylaw that doesn't mean that you can't do it

1:31:21As the fire chief he ultimately still holds authority if he feels that there's an unsafe situation under

1:31:26the fire prevention and protection act

1:31:29But he he does not support a change in in our bylaw

1:31:34And so he would convey that if he had started with us

1:31:37But I did get his permission to share that with you this evening

1:31:41Okay, thank you

1:31:43That's good for you councillor roark then do you have a follow-up?

1:31:46Okay, go ahead. Well just a comment mayor Guthrie

1:31:48Then if we know that the fire chief is not going to support

1:31:51A different outcome

1:31:53Then it's not a good use of staff time to go through the motions

1:31:57Of of looking at whether we could or not and options and coming back to council time

1:32:01So in in the interest really of sort of reasonability, I won't support the motion

1:32:07Okay, thank you. I'm going to go to gollar then alt

1:32:10Thank you worship. Um my

1:32:12Perspective on this it's a harm reduction approach

1:32:15We know that fires are happening and because bylaw operates on a complaint basis if the neighbors are not complaining then

1:32:23neighborhoods can have backyard fires

1:32:25Um, and I think that having clear guidelines on

1:32:29How to do it properly how to do it safely how to minimize smoke is a benefit to the community and that's why I will be

1:32:37Supporting this motion. Thank you. Okay. Thank you and alt

1:32:41Thank you very much mayor Guthrie. I was originally supportive of of the bylaw

1:32:45But I will not be supporting it and it's the it's the summer air that has made me realize that in fact

1:32:51We we need to be progressive on this front in many respects. We're progressive in in our climate change

1:32:57activities

1:32:58encouraging people to make their houses more energy efficient or

1:33:02We're encouraging people to reduce their carbon based fuels

1:33:05as much as I like

1:33:07A roasted marshmallow. I need to recognize that there is a there is a health hazard

1:33:13It is not just fires burning down people's houses. It's smoke as well

1:33:22Thank you

1:33:25Just for clarity

1:33:28Are you allowed to do a roasted marshmallow?

1:33:32I think I think you're allowed to have an open flame fire with a grill on it

1:33:37Um, and as long as you're cooking like a cooking

1:33:41Uh, just want to make sure so no, um, and that's good to know then no no marshmallows for councillor

1:33:47so no, um outdoor cooking devices that are solely and and the the way that the um

1:33:54Uh, the fire code reads is that it has to be a size proportional to what you're cooking

1:33:58And so it's a common misnomer that you can have a very large raging outdoor fire

1:34:02Roasting a single marshmallow and that is not the case

1:34:05and so

1:34:06Outdoor cooking is only permitted under certain circumstances

1:34:10But it has to be proportional to the size of what you are cooking and on the device that you are cooking on

1:34:15So again, I don't want to speak for um the fire chief or our current fire chiefs because they're not here this evening

1:34:21But uh, it isn't that sort of common belief that

1:34:25You know, if you throw a single hot dog on you can have a full bonfire and your backyard is not correct. Yeah. Thank you

1:34:32However a propane

1:34:34Source though, uh, like the little tables with the little propane that that is allowed. Absolutely propane fueled devices are permitted

1:34:43Um, and the reason for that is because they can be extinguished so quickly by simply cutting off the propane source

1:34:49And that is why they are permitted and wood burning devices are not. Okay

1:35:01Okay, I see nothing further. So I'm going to call the vote on on this based on that that information

1:35:08So is anyone so remember I'm going to ask here is anyone against

1:35:12That means you're against having this actually reviewed. Okay, so I'll I'll call the vote is is anyone against please raise your hand

1:35:24okay, so that is

1:35:27Everyone except for Gibson and chew and galler

1:35:33So that fails. Okay

1:35:36Thank you very much and we'll move on then to the fireworks

1:35:42So the staff report back by October 2023 on the proposed timeline for changes to the work plan in order to facilitate a full engagement process

1:35:50On the deployment use in sale fireworks within the city of guelph. Does anyone have any questions on this one?

1:35:58No, okay. Oh, sorry. Did you want to how did you have a comment or a question? Just a comment

1:36:02Okay, go ahead. Just saying I support this I got a lot of complaints about the misuse of fireworks in neighborhoods

1:36:08and maybe

1:36:09Whether we tighten that up or we ban that in neighborhoods where there I know a lot of communities have started to go with drone light shows

1:36:16Instead of fireworks. So by the time we get around this, I it's something I'd like to hear a bit more from from about the community

1:36:22So I would like to see what the process would be to to explore the fireworks. It has some

1:36:29You know environmental implications as well when we do fireworks and it's about sort of progressing and evolving as well

1:36:36Thank you and to kind of the originator of this councillor Goller. Did you want to say something before the vote?

1:36:41Thank you worship. Just to echo councillor downers comments. I hear from my constituents regularly

1:36:47And not just on the days when

1:36:50fireworks are allowed but the week before the week after so

1:36:54Here where we say that's the sale and use. I think that's the important part

1:36:59So that we can take a responsible approach to this and explore if wealth wants to continue

1:37:05Selling fireworks or not and exploring that alternate technologies that don't cause the loud bangs

1:37:10But we can still get light shows in this day and age

1:37:13Thank you

1:37:16All right. Thank you

1:37:18um

1:37:19Okay, so I'll just call the vote uh the call the vote on that then is anyone against that one

1:37:26No one's that's unanimous on that one. So thank you very much. Thank you

1:37:31And just looking at the clerks. I think that's taken care of that entire section. Am I right?

1:37:36Okay

1:37:39Council, do you mind if I just jump back to the e scooter thing for a sec? I'm only just trying to respect

1:37:46Okay. Yeah, I just want to respect our bylaw staff that are here that would answer any questions if need be

1:37:52So I think and there's no delegations. I think we could probably take care of this pretty quickly

1:37:56Okay

1:37:56So the only thing with the e scooter bylaw is it has to be tabled here with a little there was an administrative

1:38:03error on the date because the bylaw

1:38:07In the memo uh stated august 1st by accident

1:38:10But the bylaws are actually set up for us for an approval for the july 25th. So councillor Goller you're going to table the memo

1:38:20suggested from

1:38:22staff and it has

1:38:24Our clerks have corrected the july 25th date. Okay

1:38:27So it's moved by yourself seconded by I think councillor bruce until said yep

1:38:32And is there anything on this then any questions?

1:38:35No quite oh

1:38:37A comment. Okay. How will no questions then okay comment go ahead

1:38:40Thank you your worship. I wanted to thanks that for their their work on this

1:38:44We asked for something with a quick turnaround time and then based on

1:38:47Delegations at the beginning of the month we asked for more changes

1:38:50So I really appreciate the time that you've taken to to review this and to to consider including the

1:38:58Multi-use paths and cycling tracks. Thank you very much

1:39:03Mayor Guthrie, can I just

1:39:05Respond for one moment. Yeah, of course

1:39:07Councillor Goller, which is simply to say that I do want to give credit to Doug Godfrey and to Dustin Gronk who

1:39:11Are sitting to my right who did the bulk of the work on this

1:39:12But I do also want to acknowledge staff in jane's area within IDE

1:39:16And then a huge shout out to our staff in our legal department because they turned the bylaw around

1:39:20quicker than we normally ask them to do and they I just wanted to make sure that they also got that recognition

1:39:27Thank you so much

1:39:29All right, I'll call the vote then is anyone against uh against the the east leaders

1:39:35Nobody okay, so that's unanimous and aren't you glad I did that first for you

1:39:40So you guys can go home. Okay. Thank you for your time appreciate it

1:39:45Okay, I think we are at the end here

1:39:47and

1:39:48So it is the last one

1:39:51And it is in regards to the home for good campaign

1:39:55Um specifically for around supportive housing

1:39:59uh

1:40:01Well, let me go to councillor

1:40:05Let me let me get this just to do it right. Let me get it tabled first

1:40:09And then I can maybe do a preamble just for a second if that's fair. Just to start us off

1:40:15Um

1:40:17Or did sorry some people are saying they just want a break for a second. Do you want it?

1:40:21Yeah, do you want a five minute break? Yeah, let's do that. Let's just take a five minute break

1:40:25And then we'll we'll come back

1:40:27At 8 at 8 15. I think is what I have

1:40:30So that's like a seven minute break. Yeah, let's just start at 8 15. Okay, and uh

1:40:35And then that way this is the last item and then we're we're good to go. Okay, so take a seven minute break

1:40:39We'll see you back here in just a few moments

1:47:3032nd

1:47:31Warning, okay. How are we clerks for?

1:48:10Are we good to go? Okay

1:48:31Okay, so what we'll do is we'll call the beanie back to order. Thank you very much and

1:48:36I think what I'll do is I'll just ask for

1:48:38the motion to be at least tabled

1:48:42uh put up on the screen at least for council to consider

1:48:47And um, I was

1:48:49told in advance that councillor Goller and councillor Klassen would be willing to move in second

1:48:54What's in front of us as a starting point here?

1:48:57I will read it out loud and then if you just don't mind I I appreciate you you tabling it for for me

1:49:03Uh, I'll give a little preamble

1:49:05But that in alignment with the building our future pillar of the strategic plan staff be directed to partner with the home for good campaign

1:49:11to the satisfaction of the deputy CAO of corporate services

1:49:15to leverage up to 500 000 from the affordable housing reserve for a matching funds program

1:49:21alongside the home for good campaign with the start date of august 1st 2023 and an end date of march 31st 2024

1:49:28And that the city's contribution be frontended with the requirement for any matching funds not realized by march 31st

1:49:342024 to be paid back to the city by may 31st 2024

1:49:38And that staff report back in june 2024 on the results of the city's contribution to the campaign through 2022 to 2024

1:49:45Informing city council of the outcomes lessons learned or other relevant information. Okay, so thank you for that

1:49:52Let me read that so

1:49:54My preamble is this

1:49:56We have three supportive housing projects that are looking to open this year totaling about 72 units

1:50:03This city should be completely proud of that

1:50:06Okay, that is awesome

1:50:09There has been financial

1:50:12obligations

1:50:15Uh presented to each of these projects through multiple different funders one of the funders

1:50:21is the home for good campaign

1:50:24and

1:50:26that campaign is specifically set up

1:50:29as

1:50:30A campaign to directly help with supportive housing in the city of wealth

1:50:35They too have obligations just like other funders

1:50:39and I was made aware that there is

1:50:42There's some struggles in regards to getting some things together

1:50:47in regards to that those obligations

1:50:51and in speaking with

1:50:53the campaign members and also with the specific project, which is kindle

1:51:00there

1:51:01There was it was made known to me that

1:51:04uh

1:51:05There again, it's having some struggles and trying to get things to the finish line if I could call it that

1:51:10and so I

1:51:12felt like the success of the previous matching campaign

1:51:18was well was a success

1:51:21and

1:51:22I believe that

1:51:24Don't quote me. I think I saw

1:51:26About 539 thousand dollars was raised because of the matching 500 thousand dollars that we were able to do last year

1:51:35So I'm looking at a

1:51:37I'm looking at this campaign this group that has a track record

1:51:41of being able to fulfill to fulfill their obligations

1:51:45in regards to raising funds for supportive housing through that matching campaign

1:51:50and

1:51:51I will just acknowledge I want to you know

1:51:54Praise where praises is warranted here counselor galler at budget time made the case to all of us actually to say

1:52:00we we should probably keep that 500 thousand dollars for

1:52:05affordable housing supportive housing in that reserve

1:52:09uh, and

1:52:11You know council agreed to that which was was great

1:52:15So that 500 thousand dollars is just sitting there

1:52:20Just want to be really clear. It's just it's just sitting there since january the first that 500 thousand dollars has just been sitting there

1:52:27it's doing nothing

1:52:29and

1:52:30It is a 500 thousand dollars that's already sitting there earmarked for such projects as what we're just talking about right now

1:52:38and

1:52:39So I thought to myself well

1:52:42if we have the home for good campaign already

1:52:45Show us that they can turn 500 thousand dollars into a million dollars for supportive housing. Why don't we do it again?

1:52:52And then of course there was a time crunch and I've talked to all of council about this

1:52:55Like this is our last meeting before september and there's obligations that need to be made prior to that

1:53:02So I tried to reach out to everyone as much as possible and lay it out as

1:53:06Clearly as I could I thought this little preamble was at least good enough for everyone to try to understand

1:53:10Where things are coming from and I would say this just before we dive into this

1:53:15Like one of the best things about this team here

1:53:19Is we we we are all supportive of supportive housing. Okay, we come at it from maybe a little different angles or things like that

1:53:25But like we're we're gonna figure this out. I know I know we I feel very confident and positive about that

1:53:30um

1:53:31My idea is the one that I think is great, but hey, we're we're a team

1:53:37I'm not always the smartest one in the room

1:53:39So I'm very willing to hear what others have to say in trying to figure this out

1:53:44Uh, I think this is the best course of action

1:53:46But very open to having a respectful dialogue on what we can do here around

1:53:51Trying to house the homeless before specifically before the winter, right?

1:53:56So with that I I leave it up to to you, uh, my colleagues

1:54:00And I just wanted to say that I would like just to have a quick motion though

1:54:05um

1:54:07Sorry to the clerk's I was good to just ask counsel

1:54:10For a motion to allow people to answer any questions and answers, but we have the other motion on the floor right now

1:54:18um

1:54:19How how would you let me to to do that? Would you let me to?

1:54:22Withdraw all the other motion then is that the simplest way?

1:54:27Or can I just ask as the chair could I just make the decision without having to ask for a motion on the floor?

1:54:33Mr. Mary gives context for the discussion

1:54:35And I think as chair you you have the authority to sort of make that rule and I get I suppose if you're telling wishes to challenge

1:54:40I think they put all right. All right. Sorry. I was trying to go the correct way there

1:54:45But I kind of messed up a little bit there

1:54:46But so if you guys challenge me on it then I'll then so be it

1:54:50um, if you if it's okay with counsel, uh, Daria is here who is the exact she's available online

1:54:57Uh on camera. She's available for questions

1:55:00Uh and answers and glennah is here and chris is here

1:55:05From the home for good campaign again available for any questions and answers not as delegates

1:55:10But just here if there's any kind of uh questions. I'm going to allow them as the chair to

1:55:15Uh be available if there's any answers that that need to be forthcoming

1:55:20Everyone okay with that?

1:55:22Looks like we're looks like we're good. Okay. So thank you

1:55:25Uh, I'll turn it over to my colleagues

1:55:27And we'll start from uh from there if there's any

1:55:31uh questions uh for staff and or

1:55:34our guests

1:55:36Falsor Blusenthal

1:55:39Thank you. So first I want to thank everyone as a new counselor and new to this process

1:55:45I think I bring some fresh eyes

1:55:48And I'm not going to lie. I spent the entire weekend researching trying to get a handle on how things came to be

1:55:54And I want to thank the staff as well for helping me understand kind of

1:56:00The two sides of the house. I'm going to call the grant versus the you know, gif

1:56:05to to the fundraising campaign

1:56:07Um, and so for me, um, I I just wanted to uh, if you could for me

1:56:13Make sure that the chronology I have you know written out on all my papers is correct

1:56:18So, you know the one side of the house the chronology is we recognize and we've given authority to the county for housing

1:56:26For an rfp process and we put aside the housing reserve fund

1:56:31And the county and I've read all their materials as well very busy weekend. Um that they

1:56:38Granted and provided the recommendation council can choose what to do

1:56:42So on that side of the house is the grant to kindle for $1,364 and

1:56:50$50 I believe if you can just kind of just help me that is a grant

1:56:56Uh, yes through the marriage council pusatil so for um money

1:57:01Coming out of the affordable housing reserve a council a few years ago made the decision

1:57:05to ask the county of wellington

1:57:08In addition to their role as our cmsm to provide their expertise and advice on

1:57:13The issuing of rfps when we had money in the affordable housing reserve to be spent

1:57:19And so the county of wellington staff issue the rfp on our behalf

1:57:23They, uh, receive the applications in they vet them

1:57:26We have a staff member miss dana evan sits on that review panel with county staff

1:57:31And then that a collective group makes a recommendation back to you as council

1:57:36Regarding funding out of the affordable housing reserve. So in the first round under that rfp process

1:57:42Funding was recommended to the windham house project belview and to the stepping stone project grace gardens

1:57:47So that was the first two that were recommended and then subsequently in the next round that next rfp

1:57:53The recommendation was to fund kindle in the amount of just over 1.3 million dollars. That is through a grant program that the city provides

1:58:01um, so that money, um

1:58:04Uh, the first installment flowed to kindle already at the start of the project. Uh, the second installment, uh,

1:58:10They're at 50 completion. So the second installment is actually in process of being processed this week

1:58:18And so that is that grant

1:58:20program and we previously as you have indicated

1:58:25Have had the county of willing to put that rfp out for us

1:58:27That doesn't mean that is the only option us council have the option and last year

1:58:33um, their decision was made by council to spend uh to to uh contribute 500 000 and i think you're

1:58:41You know use of the word i mean gift it's to a donor campaign in essence that's being run

1:58:46Through the homes for good campaign

1:58:48That is entirely separate from the grant that it didn't change anything about the grant that we were giving to kindle

1:58:55It was entirely separate when kindle applied through on the rfp process

1:59:00They would have indicated on their application all of their funding sources and included in that would have been money from a donation campaign

1:59:06And that's not uncommon that donation campaign

1:59:10Is being run through the homes for good campaign and i think that's where some of maybe the confusion early on in this

1:59:16Came along because those are very very separate streams of funding to kindle

1:59:21And so certainly it is the intention moving forward that we will continue to use the county of wellington

1:59:27to issue rfps for future affordable housing fund

1:59:32Disbursement disbursements as the mayor is has said and is correct

1:59:36We had not yet entered into an rfp process in 2023

1:59:40partly because of

1:59:41Everything else going on in the world of housing and we were kind of waiting to get completed through the summer

1:59:46We weren't aware of a project sort of waiting in the wings ready to go

1:59:50And i will also say that we have historically sometimes let the fund get a bit bigger

1:59:56So that then the amount that we can give out would be greater

1:59:59So in conversation with the county staff we had not yet been in a position to recommend issuing an rfp

2:00:05Because some of the thinking had been that perhaps we wait until 2024 and have that fund build up to

2:00:11In theory a million

2:00:12Again not being presumptuous council has traditionally put a half million dollars a year in so I know that was kind of a long and rambly answer

2:00:19Hopefully that answered the question

2:00:21Yes, thank you and through through the mayor

2:00:24The first part is I think you answered it

2:00:28Is a question on whether or not the staff in evaluating the rfp process and the relationship with the county if there are any concerns

2:00:35About this that there are our considerations not being considered or things like that

2:00:40And also for me to better understand that that rfp process is a legal process with a an agreement and timelines and all those kinds of things

2:00:51Um, so through the mayor to council busitile our agreement with the county of wellington

2:00:55I would call it a service level agreement um that we uh went entered into with the county of wellington

2:01:01And so there isn't anything binding. We're not obligated to always issue the rfp through the county of wellington

2:01:07It was just direction from

2:01:09Council that that was the best approach because we as staff don't have the expertise

2:01:13But there is nothing that could preclude you from directing us not to enter into the rfp process

2:01:19And it wouldn't change anything about our relationship with the county of wellington

2:01:22They're kind of doing it over and above their work with us as the cmsm. Um, because we asked for that

2:01:28That that support city staff are still involved in that process

2:01:33And then the other thing that I just want to highlight is the funding decision still rests with council

2:01:38So through those two rfp processes the county of wellington simply sent you a report making a recommendation

2:01:44Which you can take or leave so the ultimate decision on how the money out of the affordable housing reserve gets spent

2:01:50Is always still resting with council and you have to vote on that

2:01:54And so if we're talking specifically to the kindle example the county of wellington evaluated the rfp with assistance from city staff

2:02:01The recommendation came back to council and then you voted to take the recommendation

2:02:06You could have sent it back and said no go back out to rfp again

2:02:10And so council maintains full control over the final disbursement of the funds out of the affordable housing reserve

2:02:17And so with the case of the kindle, um that funding was approved

2:02:22We then enter into a contribution agreement directly with kindle the money does not flow through the county

2:02:27The money flows directly between the city and kindle and the contribution agreement

2:02:31The county is not a signatory or a party to that funding agreement

2:02:35It is a grant agreement between the city and the third party which in this case is kindle

2:02:40And we have a legally binding contribution agreement with kindle

2:02:44And at this point there is nothing that has changed that contribution agreement is still fully in force

2:02:49And we are still continuing to honor the terms of that agreement

2:02:53Thank you just for clarification the terms of the agreement if you can give me the increments or what the steps are

2:02:58Sure through the mayor

2:03:00So the first installment to 50 percent and this is consistent across all of the projects

2:03:05I'm not just a kindle the first installment of 50 percent

2:03:08Is paid out at the start of the project the next installment of 40 percent is paid out when the architect or general contractor can demonstrate that they're halfway through

2:03:17That milestone was reached last week

2:03:19So we are due to pay out the next 40 percent

2:03:22And then the final 10 percent is not paid out until we have confirmed completion of the project an occupancy

2:03:28Permit has been issued and perhaps most importantly an updated capital cost statement has been provided to the satisfaction of the city

2:03:36So it's that last step that we have our opportunity to kind of evaluate the outcomes and so that in essence that 10 percent

2:03:43I'm not sure if this is the correct legal term dcao lee will correct me but hold back in essence

2:03:48So that we know that the project is fully completed. It's open

2:03:51They have occupancy and all of the obligations have been met

2:03:54So we do hold back that final 10 percent on all of our grant agreements

2:03:58Thank you

2:03:58So um

2:03:59I just first of all want to compliment council because I think the process of awarding

2:04:04Funding from the affordable housing reserve. I spent a lot of time looking at the documents and the policies and the process and at the other end from the county

2:04:12I thought was very solid. So kudos to council for that because I thought that was very tight

2:04:18The last question that I had for you was

2:04:21Around the affordable housing reserve and you know, I'm leaning towards leaving the money in the affordable housing reserve

2:04:28And you know just because I believe there is more coming from the community

2:04:33It is does it do we have to spend it? Do we have to clean out our bank account? You know by you know, December 31st

2:04:41Or is it something that can stay? I thought I heard you say it can stay and we can add to it for next year so that

2:04:46You know an rfp potentially in January 2024 or whatever might be for a larger amount. Is that correct?

2:04:53So through the mayor it is totally at council's discretion how much goes into that reserve and how fast it is spent out

2:04:59Currently the balance is at just over 575 thousand dollars

2:05:03Um, and so that is the 500 that was contributed coming out of the 2023 budget process as well as a small balance that was remaining

2:05:10In previous years council has sometimes put extra money into the reserve

2:05:14Which is what enabled us to fund kindle in the amount of 1.3 million dollars

2:05:19And so it has ebbed and flowed it has typically always been a minimum of 500 thousand dollars a year

2:05:26At least in my time in this role

2:05:28And so just as comparison a windham house the grant to windham house was 384 thousand dollars in the grant to grace gardens was

2:05:35884 thousand dollars

2:05:37So that kind of gives you a bit of a sense that those two combined plus the 1.3 for kindle

2:05:42We had a fairly sizable balance in the reserve and a lot of money was put in

2:05:45I I

2:05:47The clerk may have to help me or the mayor remember

2:05:49I know there was one time where there was actually an extra million dollars put in at

2:05:54Some point and i'm going to draw a blank on the year

2:05:58Yeah, so that so um, there is nothing there is nothing that requires

2:06:04council

2:06:05We as staff the money is in that reserve and we

2:06:09Might have initiated rfp process this year. Um, we had just opted not to

2:06:15Up until this point

2:06:16And so we wouldn't ever issue an rfp process

2:06:20For beyond what's sitting in the reserve

2:06:22But once it's in the reserve then it's kind of over to staff to issue that rfp process if we believe that there are projects that

2:06:28Are looking for that money

2:06:30Thank you very much for that and and you know through the lens someone new coming through here going through all the documents

2:06:35Reading all the policies and all the letters and correspondence

2:06:38I feel quite confident with the process on the left side of my ledger around the granting side of it the rfp solid

2:06:45extremely solid

2:06:47And then I went back and I read all the minutes and the documentation on the right side of my chart here

2:06:52Which is the homes for guelph and this is around the council process around that of how the recommendation came forward

2:06:59And so on and and I have to say for myself my processes

2:07:03I need to feel solid in my decision making

2:07:07I need to see staff reports and analyses and so on and so when I looked at that process there there was a lot of conversation

2:07:15around

2:07:16What would be included or not included in the five hundred thousand dollars given and so on I probably wouldn't have supported that I feel less

2:07:24comfortable in

2:07:25In a lack of structure and so that is my personal comfort. I am evidence-based. I need data. I need finances

2:07:32I need to know the governance. I know how

2:07:35Decisions are made all of those kinds of things. I do not give much. I don't gamble

2:07:40I don't I just I can't I don't feel secure about that

2:07:43So when I looked at that the process on the right side of my my documents

2:07:47I felt very uncomfortable about that and that uncomfortable is is where I'm sitting right now with this motion

2:07:55I cannot in good faith

2:07:58Support it

2:07:59I could support it if it's on the left side and that there's a formal transparent fair open

2:08:05Communicated process where everyone has a fair opportunities to put their hand up and say hey

2:08:10I want to I want some money for for something as well

2:08:14But I don't feel that and so I cannot support this and I I take very seriously my stewardship role

2:08:22And I work in poverty. I've

2:08:25Hosted people, you know on the streets, you know living in my home and and talk to people who are living in backyard sheds

2:08:32And so on so I'm very aware of this and the importance of this

2:08:36But I am also very concerned about

2:08:40How we go about this

2:08:42And and I really want to do this well. So, you know with with all due respect

2:08:47I I am deeply committed to the issue, but I cannot support this unless it's on the left side of my

2:08:54Chart here that goes through the county that has a transparent fair open process. Thank you

2:09:02Thank you

2:09:05So I'll have lots of comments

2:09:07About what was just said there later, but councillor Klassen is next

2:09:12Yes, thank you and through you mayor to um

2:09:15The uh the folks from the home for good campaign. Uh, thanks for being here. Um,

2:09:21I just want to start off by saying that

2:09:23We all agree that

2:09:26We're living in a housing crisis

2:09:28Um, and that also the economic changes that have happened in the last three years have thrown

2:09:36So many businesses organizations even our own city

2:09:41into many changes and

2:09:43Sometimes changes require, you know quick decision making and I just my question

2:09:49To the home for good campaign is just exactly how this 500 000 dollars could accelerate

2:09:57The number of people who can go into the support of housing units how how much faster it could happen

2:10:03Um, and and how will the funds be used to do that? Uh, thank you for the question

2:10:17Uh, we proved last year with uh council's generous support that we have the capability to leverage

2:10:26funding and successfully

2:10:29raised

2:10:30596 000 dollars

2:10:32Uh to match the 500 000 dollars that was available

2:10:37For the city match. So what the opportunity that is in front of us?

2:10:41We have an urgent opportunity to meet our funding commitments to the kindle property

2:10:48there are certain economic and situations that are impacting our current success that we do have rising concerns about our ability to

2:10:59Meet those targets and ensure that the doors get open this fall

2:11:04so this matching opportunity

2:11:06would help us engage the community and leverage

2:11:11That funding to meet the funding requirements ensure that the kindle project is open and able to

2:11:18Meet our full goal of housing 72 individuals this year in permanent supportive housing

2:11:32I think I think that answer is my question actually. Yeah, I really appreciate the response

2:11:37Maybe maybe just to clarify

2:11:39um

2:11:40What potentially would it mean for the those 72 individuals if we pushed back from the fall?

2:11:45What what where would they go? What would happen to them to clarify? Thank you kim

2:12:02um housing the 72 people brings them in from living rough living hard from

2:12:10uh

2:12:11unsupported

2:12:13permanent supportive housing includes counseling and supports 24 7

2:12:18um with the aim to improve their situation so that they can become self-sufficient

2:12:25um and ideally not just have a roof over their head but

2:12:30have a more

2:12:32life

2:12:35Thank you. I really appreciate that. Um

2:12:38We we know, you know, I don't know. Maybe I shouldn't make this comment

2:12:42but we know that there's so many people in our community right now who are suffering and

2:12:48And and this you know the the difference a few months can make, you know

2:12:52I don't want to put words into your mouth, but I think it's significant

2:12:55And and so I will certainly be supporting it

2:12:59And I just I really I am worried about you know, we heard about this last year as well

2:13:02there's more and more people who are unhoused and

2:13:06This is a perfect opportunity to make sure that this winter they they have a place to go. So thank you

2:13:12Thank you a counselor goalers next

2:13:16Thank you for your worship to the representatives from the home for good campaign

2:13:21um

2:13:22I wanted to ask why why are you taking this on?

2:13:26Um, because whenever we've had conversations about this in council

2:13:29I hear from my colleagues say well, this is a provincial responsibility

2:13:32The province should be responsible for building new social housing new supportive housing

2:13:38So why is the united way and why are our community organizations coming together to do this work?

2:13:43Instead of say the province

2:13:49Uh simply put somebody has to

2:13:52Um somebody has to address homelessness

2:13:56um

2:13:58a counselor

2:14:00once asked me

2:14:02How much people should give?

2:14:05and my answer is charities only exist

2:14:11to close gaps

2:14:13when a federal provincial

2:14:15provincial county or municipal government can't take care of everyone

2:14:21Somebody has to

2:14:23uh address needs in the community and we have started with the most

2:14:27Uh vulnerable those that are on the street and looking to make sure that they have supports and that they live to their full potential

2:14:36um, I

2:14:38also will say that

2:14:40um

2:14:41Well, I I think we also took the project on and tackled it because

2:14:47um

2:14:49Well, we have the absolute belief that somehow

2:14:53We will address the uh the campaign goal

2:14:57To see these projects through

2:15:01Thank you. Thank you very much. Um, and and as a follow-up

2:15:05speaking to to process

2:15:07This money was put into a fund and there was a process for

2:15:11For applications to be sent to the county to request these funds

2:15:15Could you help us understand why the home for good campaign had not applied to wellington county to access those 500 000 that was available?

2:15:23Uh by the in the city of guelves affordable housing reserve

2:15:30the process of a

2:15:32capital campaign uh, and especially in today's environment

2:15:37changes on a daily basis

2:15:39So we have from month to month week to week been monitoring progress and assessing our position

2:15:47and there's been certain factors that have uh impacted us

2:15:52Most notably I'll say the economic situation

2:15:56We recently an angus

2:15:59poll came out that said that 40 percent of canadians plan to reduce their charitable giving

2:16:05Of course, we had a recent

2:16:08inflation is continuing to go up

2:16:11We have stigma that is actually far worse than we expected it to be when we started this campaign

2:16:17There are many individuals that have said no

2:16:20To supporting the campaign. So there's factors that we continue to assess as the campaign

2:16:26continues and

2:16:28uh

2:16:29If you would have asked me two weeks ago

2:16:33If we needed this support, I actually would have said i'm not sure that we do

2:16:39Uh, but that's how quickly things can change in our process

2:16:42We actually had two

2:16:44Significant prospects that we've been working with uh for several months now

2:16:49one that started positively and

2:16:53You know, we were told that we were likely to get funding just not sure how much and it ended up being a no

2:16:59We found that out on thursday of last week

2:17:02And then we had another prospect that has decided to pause their decision

2:17:07so it's just really

2:17:09quickly changing and assessing the situation and so that's where

2:17:14sometimes timelines

2:17:16for applying for traditional

2:17:19RFP processes or other opportunities can be a challenge. We're doing our best to stay adaptable and on top of

2:17:26various opportunities, but things are changing on a rapid basis and we're doing our best to

2:17:32assess those challenges and respond to them and

2:17:35Also look at bridge funding. Uh, if it's necessary

2:17:40Thank you and one final question

2:17:42Your worship the the home for good campaign has selected to to support permanent supportive housing

2:17:49hearing wealth

2:17:50But we we do have a spectrum from the shelter system

2:17:54Another projects that have applied for this funding in the question of what if we were to leave the funds there?

2:17:59Maybe they go to affordable housing. Maybe they go to

2:18:03Um, a different type maybe affordable rental

2:18:06Why is permanent supportive a priority over say say supporting?

2:18:12affordable rental or affordable ownership

2:18:16If you can please let us know

2:18:21um, I would start by saying, um, I don't think people choose to be homeless

2:18:27um

2:18:30We have the data we have a really good idea what contributes to becoming homeless and it

2:18:37It's remarkable how many people are close to being homeless

2:18:41It's not just about being able to afford rent if you have addiction or deep mental health needs

2:18:49Um, I don't think you're going to maintain a rental place

2:18:54Um, that is reasonably priced. I don't think you're going to come through the process

2:19:00I'm not sure that you'll be the selected candidate

2:19:03permanent supportive housing

2:19:06addresses some of our most

2:19:08um

2:19:09people with great need

2:19:11and with housing

2:19:14They'll also have the supports to carry them through and so we have started at

2:19:22I want to say the bottom and I don't mean

2:19:25What I mean is at the most vulnerable and we are working our way up, but this is the starting point

2:19:33Thank you for that and uh your worship. Would you like comments afterwards or no?

2:19:40The last two speakers are giving comments, so I'll just allow comments. Thank you your worship

2:19:45But I do want to make sure we're just we're flowing questions comments questions

2:19:48I like to call the vote and keep moving so just if you've got the mic you can answer your or

2:19:53Ask questions, then you can give comments. Go ahead. Thank you your worship

2:19:57um, a few years ago that guelph Wellington poverty elimination task force identified that

2:20:02To help people

2:20:05Get out of homelessness

2:20:06We needed permanent supportive housing that is housing that provides the supports to deal with those issues that that unless they're provided

2:20:14It's it's difficult to get someone from a shelter system to to affordable rental or affordable ownership considering that

2:20:21um, for example, a habitat for humanity fantastic organization. They build

2:20:27Um attainable homes, but the minimum income for their building waterloo is

2:20:33$79,000 for someone to be able to find that affordable home ownership

2:20:38So for folks that are street involved, there is this huge divide

2:20:41And I think that it's important for us to know that sure we could live money

2:20:45In the affordable fund and wait for someone else to come to apply for that. It might be

2:20:51Affordable rental it could be affordable ownership

2:20:53But we have heard from from the experts in guelph that the best thing that we can do with our resources is provide

2:21:01The next step after the shelter system permanent supportive housing and then from there folks can move up the housing spectrum

2:21:08So I I ask my council colleagues to rely on the voice from from those community experts that are telling us

2:21:15This is what we need to do next we have the shelter system in place

2:21:19Now we need permanent supportive housing in guelph and then we can help people move along that spectrum. Thank you

2:21:26Okay, thank you and richards. I I do have you on my list alt. Yeah, uh, richardson next

2:21:30Yeah, thank you very much and through you mayor to our delegates or our guests. Sorry

2:21:37As a new counselor, I have lost hours of sleep over this as similar to councillor boost a toll over the weekend

2:21:43We find out on a friday afternoon

2:21:45That this is coming to us on tuesday. There's nobody to talk to saturday sunday. We have one day

2:21:51to decide um

2:21:53And and this is not our lane. This is not uh

2:21:56Where we're supposed to be we're not the experts on this our staff are not the experts on this

2:22:00And i'm really struggling as much as I support supportive housing and I know the need is there

2:22:05I have a responsibility as councillor boost a tell said as a stewardship to all the residents in guelph

2:22:11And I guess one of the biggest questions is because right now in good conscience. I can't support this because I feel

2:22:16Like I'm making a blind decision and I don't know I don't know if there's other groups out there that can use this money

2:22:22Is this the best use of our money? And I guess I'm wondering, you know, you said that

2:22:27Um two weeks ago if we asked you this question you would say I'm I don't know

2:22:31I'm not sure so if there was any inkling that you felt you weren't going to make your targets

2:22:35Why wouldn't have you have reached out and started an rfp process at that time to give people and especially

2:22:42councillors time to get this information and provide staff our staff time to review and

2:22:49Make the best decision possible

2:22:55so the

2:22:59The the final as I mentioned the one

2:23:02Final gift that we were expecting to come in we got the answer on that on thursday

2:23:09and

2:23:10It just so happened we have been transparent

2:23:14around the

2:23:16$770,000 that we have commit remaining our remaining commitment to the kindle project

2:23:22because of the size of the gifts that we were working on

2:23:27Raising over the last couple of weeks. We still felt confident about that

2:23:32It was really just thursday where that situation changed and was also the day that the opportunity was presented to us. So

2:23:43Had it been this week and the opportunity hadn't been presented to us and we would have talked to all of our

2:23:51funding partners

2:23:53including the city about opportunities for bridge funding and backups

2:23:58So it's just really changed within the last week

2:24:02So through you through you may or two I guess if you so have you asked others for

2:24:07A contribution to this deficit like have you gone to the county and asked them for

2:24:12If they're willing to join in and and donate anything

2:24:16Not we are actively fundraising for the $770,000 we had two meetings on monday with funding requests

2:24:27So it's an ongoing process where we are reaching out and actively fundraising for this campaign

2:24:33and it won't stop until we reach our five million dollars and

2:24:38Put us on the strong path to solving homelessness at this point. We have not specifically reached out for additional

2:24:46funding from the county of wellington

2:24:49We just thought we would seize this opportunity when it presented itself

2:24:54So seize this opportunity that presented itself. Can you tell me what that means?

2:25:02When the opportunity to explore another matching opportunity was mentioned to us by mayor guthrie

2:25:10We uh continued in conversations on that that was on thursday

2:25:16Okay, thank you

2:25:18And donor

2:25:22Thank you

2:25:25Through you to our guests

2:25:28I guess one of the questions I have so I just want to clarify it. I think that's what counselor classom was saying too that

2:25:35so if

2:25:36There's there's was some funding targets that the home for good couldn't make the 200 and some thousand and then the

2:25:43The 500,000 coming up

2:25:46If there if there is

2:25:48No funding

2:25:50Coming does this delay the project and i'm not sure whether

2:25:55um, if ron answers add or it are without the funding if

2:26:00A home for good does not

2:26:02Um, keep that commitment

2:26:05Will is still will you still be able to open in october?

2:26:12Did you want to answer that or did daria want to daria? Do you mind jumping in on that?

2:26:17Yeah, I can jump in on that. Good evening everyone. Um, I can't really see everyone on the screen

2:26:21But thanks for having us here this evening. Um, the kindle project right now is on time and on budget

2:26:30We are reliant on all

2:26:34Funding contributions that have been made as part of the project in order to complete the project

2:26:40In the time frame that's allocated for that

2:26:46Okay, so if there's a delay and if there is no funding does that delay the project was my question

2:26:52So you're reliant on it. I understand

2:26:54But if the funding doesn't come through from the home for good, is that going to delay the project finishing the project?

2:27:02We would certainly have to enter into negotiations with the home for good campaign if they weren't able to meet their funding contribution

2:27:10commitments, um

2:27:12and you know regroup and you know

2:27:15Look at what our options would be at that point because the entire

2:27:19project was scoped and based on the contribution agreements that

2:27:24the various contribution agreements that um, you know, provincially federally and municipally and with the home for good campaign that they've made

2:27:33That still doesn't answer my question

2:27:36The funding isn't there. Are you going to be late opening up?

2:27:40I think the question uh, councillor is is a challenging question because we don't want to be delayed in opening up

2:27:47and we do believe that the home for good campaign is actively working to meet their

2:27:52funding commitments and requirements, uh, and

2:27:56I think as glennon has explained this has been a bit of a changing and evolving situation

2:28:02Um, I would want to come back together with the funders to see if there was any other options

2:28:07Um, that would that we could look at that would not cause a delay to the opening of the project

2:28:13Which I think would directly impact

2:28:16The community and those 32 individuals that we could have housed

2:28:22And is there any reason why the funding couldn't go directly to kindle?

2:28:28Rather than going through the home. Oh, sorry. Is there any reason why the funding?

2:28:36I don't know why you were turning off my

2:28:39Why the funding couldn't go directly through kindle? Um

2:28:43I like I'm just thinking of increasing the grant that we have right so the 1.3 increasing it

2:28:48by 500 thousand and just making it clean going right there to cover off that

2:28:54um, the anticipated

2:28:57495 thousand that's that's due

2:29:00In august

2:29:01Is there any reason why that can't be done and just like rather than going through and having the administrative costs and going through then

2:29:10and all that process

2:29:12It gives it just puts it back

2:29:15From my perspective sort of more in our lane, which is part of the granting that we've done every year. It just

2:29:22Moves the granting up

2:29:24A year a year like our grants up a year. We wouldn't go through an rfp process. It would be added on to this project

2:29:31Um, so that I'm just that that's another consideration that I'm thinking about

2:29:40There is one risk

2:29:43with that option

2:29:45in that

2:29:47There is other funding that is contingent on our ability as home for good to deliver on our two million dollar commitment

2:29:58So if the funding isn't part of our

2:30:02770 thousand dollar remaining commitment

2:30:06We'd have to ensure that that doesn't put the other funder at risk

2:30:11So that's just one important

2:30:13Thing that I wanted to highlight

2:30:15um, and then the other

2:30:17Two items just because I just like

2:30:20So I don't understand that so then you just have the 270

2:30:25Which is in the situation you're in now like if we didn't give you the 500 thousand to leverage or do anything with

2:30:32Your situation wouldn't be changing. You'd still need to get that extra funding

2:30:36To keep your commitment. We provided a letter stating that we would provide two million dollars

2:30:43to the kindle project which turned

2:30:46uh, I believe approximately two million dollars of funding

2:30:50from a

2:30:53loan into a grant

2:30:55and

2:30:56That staying that way is contingent on us

2:30:59delivering our two million dollar commitments. So I'm just unsure

2:31:04of

2:31:05If the funding goes directly to kindle

2:31:10Um having not explored that prior to today. I'm not sure what position that leaves that other funding in

2:31:17so I just want to be transparent on that because

2:31:21It's something that we were not able to explore previous to tonight

2:31:26um, the other piece is just with the

2:31:30uh, and I understand your comments on the

2:31:33Bringing it over to that lane that you're comfortable with

2:31:36But then it does

2:31:38lose out on that opportunity

2:31:40Which we have proven to be successful to mobilize the community

2:31:45Would leave us in a position where we are still required to raise the remaining

2:31:50220,000 dollars without the extra boost from the matching opportunity

2:31:56Many people chose to donate during the last period because the matching was available

2:32:03And um, it is something that we could continue to present

2:32:06What it really helped us with last time was not only giving but

2:32:10urgency and timelines of giving

2:32:13Because it was available. It really helped us

2:32:17accelerate our fundraising which has been a challenge with the campaign timeline. So

2:32:22Uh, yes, it would meet the budgetary requirements

2:32:27Of the 770 but we would lose out of that opportunity

2:32:31To really accelerate and emphasize the importance in the community

2:32:38Chris, is there anything you wanted to add on that? If if I may

2:32:42um

2:32:43Our partners all committed to using the home for good campaign as the fundraising platform

2:32:49We've been a unified team delivering consistent messaging

2:32:54giving through home for good ensures

2:32:57That both the golf community foundation and the united way recover costs

2:33:03I know that you're looking to minimize costs

2:33:06But the home for good goal was intentional with our roles within that team

2:33:13The fundraisers are fundraising which allows the three project partners to focus on their builds

2:33:20And on service delivery

2:33:23It keeps all of us doing what we're best at

2:33:27It really wouldn't have ever been helpful to have six organizations out there

2:33:33campaigning independently and trying to fundraise

2:33:37Donors would have had multiple asks

2:33:39We wouldn't have had unified messaging. It really would have been

2:33:44well organized chaos

2:33:48um

2:33:50so far

2:33:52A grand total of 82 141 dollars from all funds raised has gone towards administration costs

2:34:01And that includes things like

2:34:04um, the uh campaign planning uh planning the feasibility study

2:34:10The branding the case for support the website marketing blog entries adds to generate interest and to

2:34:18Help to educate our public

2:34:22By sidestepping the home for good campaign and the platform

2:34:27Sends a strong message to our community that you don't value the work that's happening and the expertise

2:34:34That's being used to lead the campaign

2:34:37So I I appreciate that though. There wasn't so much around cost, but that you know that that's in there, but it it's just around

2:34:47So without this 500,000 you're going to be in that position anyway

2:34:52So like for me it was like is there a more direct way for us to fund

2:34:58The kindle as we have before by increasing our grant because we've given the money to kindle as well 1.2 million

2:35:05As well as what we've given and so this is how do can we increase our grant?

2:35:10But by the sounds of it, so it's not it's not saying anything negative about

2:35:15What you're doing it's about

2:35:18The comfort level of this council being in a process

2:35:23Um rather than this the the and as you see a lot of people are shaking their head rather than being in a process where we're

2:35:30We're giving money to for a donation to

2:35:34To to to leverage again, and this is the second year in a row in the second year. We've gotten it last minute

2:35:41I mean that's the other problem for us, right and we have a fiduciary responsibility to our constituents

2:35:47so that that sort of

2:35:50Some councils are just much more comfortable giving directly the kindle which is our lane which is part of our granting

2:35:57System because they've already put in an rfp and this would just be increasing that grant

2:36:02So it's not about i'm sorry if it sounded like I was undermining what you were doing to us

2:36:08It needs to we need to find a way to make this

2:36:11um

2:36:13A better scenario for us, but I understand what you're doing and and it sounds like you you don't know

2:36:19And I've just this this came up late today

2:36:21So it was um, and I spoke to you and thank you

2:36:24runner for talking to me earlier today and Daria

2:36:27But it's it's I didn't hadn't really that issue hadn't come up about funding it directly

2:36:32So I can see that if that two million was contingent upon

2:36:37another don't another

2:36:39Funding source then that complicates

2:36:43the whole thing

2:36:47Okay, oh sorry

2:36:48so um

2:36:52So yeah, so that just so you've you've answered

2:36:57That that question

2:37:04Yeah, yeah, so I you know my comments

2:37:07You know just comments I might come back. I might have put my hand up again

2:37:10But my comments are like I want to give like the money right so I just because I don't want

2:37:18Use 30 rooms to be sitting there waiting any longer while the community tries to find this funding

2:37:25um

2:37:26And we're gonna be it's funding that is that is there and it just means that we don't do an rfp. It's it's

2:37:34That giving it to the homes for good is a bit is more outside of the lane, but

2:37:40It certainly was in our lane to give it to to kindle. So it's sort of I'm I'm sort of thinking I just don't want to see delay

2:37:47I want these rooms open in october

2:37:50You know in october we're coming into winter. There's 30 people that could have a place to sleep in october

2:37:57So I'm just trying to find a way that we can do this that that works for everybody

2:38:03and

2:38:05Mediation is sort of

2:38:07It's like is there another way of doing this, but it doesn't sound like that's possible. So I'm just

2:38:13Yeah

2:38:14Let's keep going around and and what we can come I can come back to you then alt and then Gibson

2:38:20Thank you very much mayor, uh, guthrie. Um, I have a few questions for a few people actually

2:38:25Um, first one. I think I'll just ask to you mayor guthrie. When when were you made aware of this?

2:38:30Uh, well, I guess I had a

2:38:34Daria, when did I meet with you last week? Was that thursday or wednesday or?

2:38:41Thursday, so there's no prior knowledge. Okay. Thanks. Um, and then and then after that

2:38:46I'll just just so you know then after that I called I called glenna

2:38:50Yeah, thank you. Um, ms ebron. I was wondering if you could please provide me with

2:38:56Some cost information. What is the total cost of this project?

2:39:02It's approximately 12 million dollars

2:39:0412 million

2:39:05So at this point the city has invested approximately

2:39:10Depending upon how you look at it

2:39:1210% or possibly 15% into this project depending upon whether we identify 1.3 million as what's being provided or 1.3

2:39:22Plus the 500 000 is that correct? Those are the correct numbers. Yes. Yeah

2:39:28And we're looking possibly to provide another 500 000. Is that correct?

2:39:34As part of the matching campaign. Yes, so we would be probably getting up to about 20% then. Okay, uh, the next question

2:39:41I have actually is another money question. Um, this this relates

2:39:46To for whom is this housing? I've heard it. It stated that that it could be used for those who are

2:39:54Currently do not have housing

2:39:56And that they might be people who are suffering addictions and mental illness. Uh, am I right?

2:40:03Yes, the project is um, specifically permanent supportive housing for people who have experienced and are experiencing chronic homelessness

2:40:12Then the next question is what will the costs of the units be?

2:40:19That is an awesome question that I don't have the answer to for you this evening. Um

2:40:24We are working my team is working with the county around the process in relation to tenancy and uh,

2:40:33costs affiliated with that

2:40:35Okay, um

2:40:37I think what I want to do now

2:40:40Is maybe just turn to some questions for staff with regards to where we're at now. What I understand is we're looking at

2:40:47Um, putting ultimately 2.3 million dollars into this project. Is that correct?

2:40:55So through the mayor, um, what we are granting is just over 1.3 million. That's the city's grant

2:41:02500,000 has gone to the homes for good campaign and how that has been allocated

2:41:05I don't mean to deflect but how that has been allocated and i'm not sure that it's reasonable

2:41:10For me to comment on of the first 500,000 which of those dollars went to which project

2:41:16I think that's more granular than I can comment on I think

2:41:19Each of the projects we've we've contributed

2:41:23300 and changed to one 800 and changed to another in 1.3 and changed to kindle

2:41:28And 500,000 to the homes for good campaign that they have chosen then how to allocate out to those three

2:41:33What is being considered before you is an additional 500 if

2:41:38Depending how you want to allocate those dollars

2:41:40You want to assume that all of the original 500 was what went to kindle and I'm again

2:41:45I'm not sure that that's I think that math is overly simplistic, but I'll turn to glennon and chris

2:41:51But the city's contribution to kindle through the grant remains at the 1.3 million dollars to date

2:41:59Then where does that other 500?

2:42:01Well, the other 500,000 went to the homes for good campaign

2:42:04So that they could honor their commitments to all three projects. I can't comment of the 500

2:42:10How it was split because that was money that was handled at the homes for good campaign end of things

2:42:15But then and then I will get to the homes for good

2:42:18This 500,000 I just need clarification probably both the staff and from guests

2:42:24Where is it going? So through the mayor my understanding is that the current deficit is

2:42:30owed that the money is currently to kindle so that that windham and

2:42:36Grace gardens are not in a deficit position

2:42:40But that kindle is who is in the deficit position of just over 770 000

2:42:45So my understanding is that this 500 would go

2:42:50Through the homes for good campaign to then be able to honor their commitment that they have made to the kindle project

2:42:56Okay, so ultimately we would be looking at 1.8 million plus a proportion of the money that was given

2:43:05A year ago that is yes, and we don't know what that is

2:43:08I fly will turn over to the guests

2:43:11Of the funding provided in the previous matching

2:43:15205 000 of that was provided to the windham house belview project

2:43:21And the remainder was provided to kindle so

2:43:26There was support for to supportive housing projects at that time

2:43:31And Colleen was correct that the current funding would all go to the kindle project

2:43:36So then that would make it approximately a total of 2.1 million total to kindle is that correct? Okay, that helps a ton

2:43:44What happened to the

2:43:49Grace gardens

2:43:53It was not funded through the city of gulf funding. We provided funding to it through community donations. Great. Thank that helps a ton

2:44:04Now

2:44:05The question I have now is a governance question and and it really is

2:44:09I'm struggling with the issue of rfps and I was wondering if staff could please tell me

2:44:15What is the point of the rfp process if we

2:44:19Then are called on on very short notice

2:44:23To actually allocate money

2:44:25In some senses, I think we're doing a disservice both the governance and possibly to other projects in the community

2:44:31And i'm just hoping I can hear from staff on that

2:44:33Through the mayor to council all so certainly just backing up prior to us going through the rfp process and deciding to have the county of

2:44:41Wellington or council directing we had previously funded st

2:44:44Joe's they had a shortfall they came back and that ass came directly to council

2:44:48It was actually as a result of that that led council to say we need expertise in in

2:44:54Evaluating because at that time staff were asked

2:44:57Well on what basis should we evaluate the additional ask from st. Joe's and we as staff had to say

2:45:02We don't really have the expertise so we're struggling to give you that advice and guidance

2:45:05And so at that point that's when council made the decision that having been said council always has the right to work outside of that rfp process

2:45:15if

2:45:16Unlimited time was available to us and this is Colleen's opinion now

2:45:21I think that the ideal situation would have been that the homes for good campaign might have notified kindle that they were not going to be

2:45:27able to honor their funding commitment and then kindle could have chosen to approach any of their funders and said we have

2:45:35a shortfall

2:45:36and then we as the city could have

2:45:39reissued issued an rfp and kindle could have

2:45:44Submitted a second time and we would have seen if there was anyone else out there

2:45:47Or maybe kindle would have been the only one who submitted in which case we could have been considering funding of this shortfall through another rfp process

2:45:56However, that would have taken time both for the homes for good campaign to provide that notice to kindle if they weren't going to be able to honor their

2:46:04contribution agreement and then

2:46:06For the city to respond and make a decision about issuing an rfp and those rfp process like that takes

2:46:13That takes time

2:46:15so I think that um

2:46:18It I think I completely appreciate the dilemma that you are being faced with because we do have an rfp process

2:46:25And I can't tell you if I think there's anyone else out there that might respond

2:46:31We also I have not had an opportunity to speak with the county of wellington housing services. So I I don't know

2:46:39It's been indicated that an approach hasn't gone to the county of wellington

2:46:42We have not had that conversation with them either. There are other funders of all of these projects, of course

2:46:46It's a 12 million dollar project. Um, there are other funders and so my my dilemma tonight is I

2:46:53I haven't had the time

2:46:55Um, and nor do I have the expertise to really give you a good answer as to what are the other options

2:47:01If time was on our side

2:47:03Then we would have much preferred as staff to be sitting down and having the conversation and mapping out how we might bring a

2:47:08Recommendation to council on this

2:47:10But there is a time pressure and I think that's what everyone is struggling with is

2:47:15I don't think there's any doubt that we are all committed to the fact that we want people

2:47:20Who are living in homelessness to have a roof over their head wherever possible?

2:47:24So what I'm hearing you say?

2:47:27Uh, you didn't have the time to either recommend or

2:47:32Suggest that we do not support this that you you're in the same time constraint that we are

2:47:39Uh through the mayor. Yes, that is correct. Um, we also uh first learned of this thursday late in the day

2:47:46And we simply had opportunity to work with clerks and the mayor on the on the wording of the motion

2:47:52But not on any we didn't have any further conversations

2:47:55I did have the opportunity to speak to miss banda on friday morning when she reached out to me

2:48:00But that was that was the extent of the conversations that we've been able to have on this just because of the time constraints

2:48:06Two further questions for staff and then one for kindle

2:48:10Am I correct then to understand that we don't have any documentation on this right now?

2:48:17Through the mayor to council all not that has come in through staff simply the letter that was submitted

2:48:22Um, I believe cosigned by miss banda and mr. Whaler that came in on friday afternoon

2:48:26But that you we received that when you did okay through the clerk's office

2:48:30Um, the other question perhaps it's um, I don't know whether it's for you miss clack bush or somebody else

2:48:36Um, because we have social services and housing coming from the county and we're doing part two of our housing issue in september

2:48:43what i'm struggling with is

2:48:46Why are we actually entertaining this before september?

2:48:49I've heard some points that there there might be some time urgency and I will ask the same to uh to miss ebron as well

2:48:55But why are we doing this before september?

2:48:58So through the mayor to council alt I I would i'm not trying to defer but I think um

2:49:04If i've understood there is a time pressure

2:49:07Uh a deadline of august that has potential in terms of the jeffrey the project being in jeffrey

2:49:12But i'm likely not the best person to ask that question. Okay miss ebron. Um, I was wondering if you could

2:49:18Perhaps provide some highlights of that

2:49:21Glad and chris do you want to speak to the time constraint issue?

2:49:27Yes, it's actually our time constraint we have funding commitments, uh based on timelines that are

2:49:34related to

2:49:36That other funding is contingent upon

2:49:40and uh, we had a

2:49:43Funding deadline of june 15th and an upcoming one of august 15th. So that's where the urgency lies

2:49:50And the august the august 13th thing you said, uh

2:49:54The funding urgency there, um

2:49:58I don't know whether it's appropriate to ask it, but uh with whom would that be and how does this alleviate that?

2:50:05So our uh commitment to raise two million dollars, uh locally

2:50:11Uh

2:50:12unlocked funding from cmhc

2:50:14And we have commitments to deliver on our local fundraising to be able to ensure that funding is

2:50:22available for the remainder of the expenses for the project

2:50:29I think I only have one last question. It's really uh to miss ebron about the the future

2:50:34And and I do want to thank you with regards to this uh this project in so many ways because it is vital housing

2:50:40Um when this project is finally done

2:50:43Are we able to confirm that there will be 24 hour wraparound service or is that still to come?

2:50:50Just trying to unmute. I'm sorry about that. Um

2:50:58The home for good campaign is supporting the capital costs of the project and we are working in partnership

2:51:04While the golf community health center and stonehenge are working to secure

2:51:08Um the permanent supportive housing programming aspects of the project

2:51:15Thank you. Thank you mayor go through

2:51:18Councillor Gibson, please

2:51:20Yeah, thank you through mr. Mayor. I'm just going to go back to some first principles of my understanding here

2:51:24And it was through you in discussion, but maybe you can clarify

2:51:28The 500 000 dollars that's being asked that's

2:51:32Is it going to just simply be given or is it is it being given as a is a matching campaign?

2:51:38So it's being leveraged to

2:51:40To drive more giving to the program. Is that right mr. Mayor?

2:51:47Are you asking me or the guests the guests or or you it's your motion, but yeah, I can ask the guests as well sure

2:51:54Miss a bren. Okay, sure. Go ahead

2:51:58I'll okay. I'll go first and I'll just jump it over to them. Okay

2:52:02So, yeah, the entire

2:52:04intent of this

2:52:06Is to mirror

2:52:08Exactly what we did last year

2:52:11And they turned 500 000 dollars

2:52:14into 1 million and 96 000 dollars

2:52:17And amplified the importance and urgency of supportive housing in our community

2:52:24That's it

2:52:26The fundamental principles of this is to turn 500 000 dollars

2:52:31Into a million

2:52:32For 500 000 dollars that is currently sitting in an account

2:52:36Earmarked for these types of projects

2:52:39And there's no projects earmarked for it at all

2:52:42So I'll stop there and go to the guests to see if they need to add anything

2:52:50Nothing to add

2:52:53Okay, I'll end with my I'll end with my comments then mr. Mayor

2:52:56So based on the success of the first go around listen, this is short notice. Yes

2:53:02I'm slightly out of my comfort zone. However, um, you know, I

2:53:07I don't I don't mean to play on emotions here, but for the first time

2:53:11Ever I received an email from a constituent in the the furthest east end

2:53:17Neighborhood we have saying that the police and fire were in the backfield

2:53:21Just over the weekend

2:53:23Tending to someone in a tent and you know, that's that's on people's front door now

2:53:28Throughout the city and this is an opportunity to really to really finish off. What is a great project?

2:53:34again, not to pull on heartstrings, but the

2:53:37The intent here is to if I understand it and I think you've just clarified is that

2:53:42If there's five dollars in the community

2:53:45That is willing to spend is willing to give to this cause the city's willing to give five dollars to

2:53:50And so if there's ten dollars in the community that is willing to give this cause the city will give ten dollars to

2:53:54up to five hundred thousand dollars so

2:53:57Um, I really see it as a two for one here. Um, I know that it's five hundred thousand dollars

2:54:03I know I know that but when we're able to leverage it the way that we have and demonstrated

2:54:08I really just I just fix my eyes on on the finished product on that on that project and getting 30 people housed

2:54:15So I do have questions about the operations of the facility

2:54:19I'd like to have peace of mind that the operations costs are

2:54:22Taking care of in the future, but in terms of the capital investment

2:54:25Um, I I just see it as a must. I don't see it as a as a as a maybe I see it as a must

2:54:32Okay, thank you and katyn

2:54:36Thank you. Mr. Mayor, I'll spare you to our guests. Um, so

2:54:41like

2:54:42councillor Richardson and councillor Bustel I am struggling with the timeline and the process

2:54:47of having to make this decision so quickly

2:54:50and without

2:54:52all of the needed supports of the county

2:54:56And as councillor Allt said

2:54:58September 12th is when the county is supposed to come back to us with a full report on the low income housing

2:55:04and

2:55:05I would really have appreciated them 1.5 months for a more full temperature of where and how we might need to put this money

2:55:13um

2:55:14But I was wondering

2:55:17How would waiting until that meeting or applying for an RFP in that timeline impact the development schedule?

2:55:32So the question the question is

2:55:34How would waiting in basically if you if they if we if we wait till september to get more information from the county

2:55:40How could that?

2:55:43always how is waiting until september for more information going to affect your

2:55:48Your obligations the development schedule. I have a separate question for and the development schedule. Yeah

2:55:57so from my perspective the contribution agreements that we have, um

2:56:04The sorry the home for good campaign is connected to the contribution agreements that we have

2:56:09uh and

2:56:11We're reliant on the money that we get from the contribution agreements the multi-level contribution agreements as well as the home for good campaign

2:56:20to

2:56:21pay for the costs of our project

2:56:23and we anticipate and expect given that our project is months from completion that we will be continue to receive

2:56:32quite costly

2:56:34invoices

2:56:36To us that will be required to be paid in the upcoming months

2:56:41And so I think that is a bit of a difficult question

2:56:45Without the funds there's an impact to our cash flow

2:56:50And so there potentially is a timing issue

2:56:53If we wait until the september day. Thanks. Okay. Thank you

2:57:04And how's councillor Caton back to you?

2:57:06Yeah to the uh to glenna and um the home for good folks

2:57:12Have you spoken to the cmhc to see if the funding day is movable because that seems to be

2:57:17the risk

2:57:19more than anything, right?

2:57:25we uh the

2:57:28We have not directly we do not have a direct relationship with the cmhc

2:57:33So we provided the letter of support and our commitment

2:57:37Dates

2:57:38So that is not a conversation we have had at this point

2:57:42for the june 15th

2:57:45Delivery date that we had for funding there was some flexibility the importance is ensuring that

2:57:53construction and our development remains on schedule

2:57:56So the ultimate factor is ensuring that that cash flow is there

2:58:02So it's all reliant on each other like really their flexibility will only depend on the development schedule

2:58:13So it's possible that

2:58:15They would be okay with the funding coming in september

2:58:19If you had that conversation

2:58:23if it didn't negatively impact the development and

2:58:28invoices and

2:58:29being received by the kindle project

2:58:34because they would want to ensure their ultimate goal is to ensure that

2:58:40construction continues

2:58:44okay

2:58:45and through the mayor to

2:58:48lana

2:58:50so

2:58:51because this is a matching fund and

2:58:54it would

2:58:55presumably be given after the matching amounts have been

2:59:00received isn't it possible that

2:59:03You wouldn't be getting the money until about september anyway

2:59:14So through the mayor to councillor Caton just for clarification the motion

2:59:18Specifies the motion that's different this year than last year is that it specifies the pain out of the $500,000 now

2:59:25That the city would directly pay out the $500,000 and then that that would be

2:59:30repaid if the matching dollars weren't raised by a certain deadline

2:59:34I'll look to see if dc le wants to comment further if I got it correct

2:59:50Okay, councillor Caton you're good then those are your questions. Yeah, okay, sorry. I understand

2:59:55So I only got I only got

2:59:58Two more and then I'd like I'd like to I think we're

3:00:02More informed because of the questions and I think we need to get get to calling the vote here, please

3:00:07So I'm going to go or orc and then uh, coran

3:00:12And then I know richardson. I think maybe just had a quick follow-up as well

3:00:15But then I'd like to I'd like to I'd like to call the vote. Okay

3:00:20Um, thank you margothry

3:00:23Um

3:00:25I'm thinking many things

3:00:27Everyone sitting around this table wants to see this project completed, right?

3:00:32And we've already demonstrated a significant commitment with the 1.3

3:00:37There will be the waving of development charges as per bill 23, which actually takes a significant cost

3:00:43off that construction

3:00:46project

3:00:47Um, and really last year's $500,000 was was to create momentum

3:00:54Um

3:00:55So I am

3:00:58I'm struggling because we're hearing about cmhc. We're hearing about other things

3:01:02But we have we don't have the documentation on that

3:01:05So in three years if somebody comes to say on what basis did you make that decision?

3:01:12There's just the letter

3:01:14So I've got some questions about the letter

3:01:17But really in terms of a $500,000 decision

3:01:21This is light in terms of governance

3:01:24In terms of timing and in terms of government governance

3:01:28The the other thing before I I get into my questions is

3:01:33With all due respect, I've served on both your boards, right? So uh, three omega three

3:01:39We need to be cautious that the expectation is not that

3:01:43That taxpayer funds and and civic funds

3:01:48Need to make up a shortfall at a campaign

3:01:51It could be regardless of the organization could be lots of other organizations could be the same

3:01:56issue

3:01:57But that is that's a really dangerous thing that we are considering. So I these are things I'm struggling with

3:02:05So I just want to get into some of the the questions I have about the letter and some general things

3:02:10Um, but there's no question that everybody wants to see these

3:02:14Affordable supportive housing units built. We're just trying to understand and we're trying to understand

3:02:20on just not a lot of

3:02:22data submitted

3:02:24to file and and

3:02:26keep

3:02:27so, um through america 3 2

3:02:31Uh, I think miss uh miss ebron

3:02:34The letter says our $2 million funding commitment to the kindle 10 shelledale project is connected other funding. So we understand that now

3:02:42And includes target dates aligned with construction milestones. We are behind on these timelines

3:02:49But I heard you say you're on time and you're on budget

3:02:53So can you help me understand

3:02:57How how the construction is behind? I understand the home for good campaign is behind

3:03:03But is the construction behind?

3:03:06The construction is not behind the project is on target

3:03:11Okay, the fall completion

3:03:13Okay, maybe the clarifying the clarifying part that I could add counselor is that

3:03:19The home for good campaign is connected to the contribution agreement

3:03:24And the home for good campaign and and please glennon and chris speak to this

3:03:28Had um specific dates the contributions were required to be made by

3:03:35Okay, no, I I understand that

3:03:37um

3:03:39And then the paragraph through america 3 goes on to say, you know, there's a there's a

3:03:44There's a funding gap

3:03:46From the home for good campaign

3:03:48To kindle

3:03:50Um and that those fundraising activities can continue. So that's great

3:03:55So why would it not be helpful?

3:03:58for the city to just

3:04:00Open up its existing 1.3 million dollar agreement

3:04:05And increase it as we did for

3:04:08st. jose

3:04:09So wouldn't that mean that the home for good campaign just has to make up a shortfall of

3:04:15$270,000 which seems like a good thing to me

3:04:18So so why not a fully appreciating what it cost to fundraise etc?

3:04:23You would actually have a smaller gap if we could use an existing vehicle and fund it that way

3:04:29Why not?

3:04:32I'm just not sure how that impacts the other

3:04:36funding condition

3:04:38unfortunately because

3:04:41Even though that funding is being provided directly to

3:04:45Kindle we're not meeting our

3:04:48$2 million commitment then

3:04:51That we committed to

3:04:53which

3:04:54turned alone

3:04:56into a grant

3:04:58It actually reminds me of the

3:05:02last matching opportunity where we inquired with staff

3:05:06If funding that was received directly

3:05:10To the windham house project could be part of the match

3:05:14And the answer was no because

3:05:17The funding needed to flow through

3:05:19the home for good campaign

3:05:21So there are commitments with funders where if funding goes directly to a project it could

3:05:28impact other funding

3:05:31So i'm just cautious

3:05:33That if it was to go direct and I I do totally understand your point

3:05:38I just don't know how it would impact that other funding and I wouldn't want to put kindle in a

3:05:44tricky position

3:05:47Through america 3 to miss ebron

3:05:51Um, I'm assuming I've talked to some folks who do lots of construction

3:05:56Um

3:06:01Should there be a funding shortfall?

3:06:04Do you have construction financing in place to be able to just continue to build and then it allows a longer timeline to fund

3:06:11Raise to fill that gap. It's my understanding most most construction projects. Do you have kind of a backup plan?

3:06:21We

3:06:23Again counselor, I think that our I don't think I know that the

3:06:28We have contribution agreements in place with multiple funders as we've already mentioned here this evening

3:06:34um

3:06:35our

3:06:36Draws from those contribution agreements are based on timelines

3:06:41um

3:06:41The home for good campaign as we indicated is connected to the contribution agreement

3:06:49And I think that if any one of those pieces of funding were not available

3:06:55And we were in a situation where we needed to

3:06:58Consider not being able to meet

3:07:01The outcomes of the project then we would have to get together with our

3:07:04Funders and we would have to have a conversation about what that meant and how we would move forward

3:07:13So through mega 3 to to miss ebron. I'm just trying to understand like

3:07:18Most construction projects will have a secured line of credit or they will have some kind of

3:07:23Of backup in case there's like lots of inflation or or whatever disruption, right?

3:07:29so

3:07:30Can can kindle not borrow

3:07:34To fill the gap because there's a reference to well, we're seeking bridge funding

3:07:40But

3:07:41Do you have deck capacity

3:07:44That would create more time

3:07:46So that we could go through the right process so that home for good campaign could raise more funds

3:07:52And and meet their obligations like i'm trying to think of ways we're trying to get to yes

3:07:57um as as partners and i'm curious to know if that's been explored

3:08:03Kindle would certainly have to go back and look at what our options are in terms of how we would cover that gap

3:08:12Um, and I think that that would have a straight

3:08:16That would have a significant impact on kindle and strain on kindle and and we would have to look at that

3:08:21Um, you know, we have been very confident in the campaign that has been put forward by home for good

3:08:27Um, and we have been you know working in and through a process that considered all levels of commitment that have been given

3:08:36By all levels of government to complete this project

3:08:41Thanks margaret three. Um, so thanks for the answer

3:08:45Okay, um

3:08:48So similar question then to the home for good campaign

3:08:52Why not continue your fundraising activities over a longer period of time because if you're looking at making up that shortfall by august 15th

3:09:00Like is that is that a reasonable expectation?

3:09:08um

3:09:09In a perfect situation

3:09:12The home for good campaign

3:09:14Would have been a five-year campaign

3:09:17Rather a five-year campaign has been delivered so far in 15 months

3:09:23And in 15 months

3:09:25We have seen

3:09:261.7 million dollars

3:09:29Provided two projects that are open and one remaining

3:09:35At this point for the home for good campaign

3:09:38There is no plan b in the sense that if there were dollars that were easily accessible

3:09:46To address homelessness. I can assure you we would have wrapped our arms around them and we'd have addressed homelessness already

3:09:54um

3:09:55and really this is why we are

3:09:59um championing and working so hard to raise funds

3:10:05Um so that we can make sure that guelph is one of the first communities to end homelessness

3:10:10So through you merga 3 there's there's no argument from anybody about that at all

3:10:17um

3:10:18And in that vein in terms of you know exploring turning over every rock

3:10:23Is there a plan to go talk to the county which is this housing service provider?

3:10:34I mean we're we're running we're in the middle of an active fundraising campaign

3:10:39Toward our five million goal. We will be reaching out to all of our funding partners and prospects

3:10:47To achieve that

3:10:49um, so through america 3 couples question questions for staff

3:10:54Is there a path? Oh, sorry. I I do have a last question for the home for good campaign merga 3 through you to um miss bandha

3:11:04Yep

3:11:06um

3:11:08So I asked you this question a year ago in terms of the admin fees

3:11:12If we wanted to stay strictly in the capital lane, right to strictly fund the capital which

3:11:19Is sort of aligned with where we need to be

3:11:22um

3:11:23Would you waive the admin fees?

3:11:26So that we can have the funds going strictly to capital and you can fund them through

3:11:32The matched community donations as as you said you did for grace gardens

3:11:43Sorry, I don't understand the comment about grace gardens

3:11:46So through you my god three earlier you said, uh, the city's matching contribution funded

3:11:54Get the kindle project and bell view

3:11:58But that uh grace gardens was funded through other community donations, right? So you can earmark stuff

3:12:05Is it possible to earmark this city funding should the vote be

3:12:10go through

3:12:12To to not cover the admin fees because those are going to be is it five or 10 percent

3:12:18administration fee

3:12:19If there's this funds transfer

3:12:22Yeah, so

3:12:26Five it is a minimal five percent administration fee for all contributions through the home for good campaign

3:12:34That are made which have been agreed upon by all partners

3:12:37Those fees are to this date strictly being used to cover direct expenses as chris mentioned earlier

3:12:47That's 82 thousand dollars

3:12:49for outside support

3:12:52Currently the community foundation in united way have received zero

3:12:57dollars of fees to support the time and efforts that we have put into this campaign

3:13:02It's

3:13:05Unreasonable to expect that we will get to a five million dollar goal and solve homelessness if we don't have the capacity

3:13:13To support the expertise required to make this campaign successful

3:13:17I appreciate that. Thank you. So through you my god three of staff. I'd like to hear from staff if there is a path forward

3:13:27Either through the county. I'd like to hear what their concerns are

3:13:32Um

3:13:35And I'm I'm a little troubled that were the people who are trying to get to yes to just say listen

3:13:40We here's 500 000 dollars that we'd be willing to give directly to kindle to get it done

3:13:45Um, that seems to be really problematic on a on documentation. We got friday

3:13:51Right, so we're working hard here and unless somebody in the future comes back to watch the video to get all the details

3:13:59This is this is tough to do on

3:14:03On just this conversation. So I'd like to hear from staff what the

3:14:07Concerns are and if there is a path forward what that might look like

3:14:13So through you mr. Mayor is the ceo so listen in here tonight. Um, I I think

3:14:18And and before I make any comments, there is no reflection of the campaign

3:14:23That's not in doubt, but I think what's missing here is the lack of conversations with city staff

3:14:29This board it's used to operate with reports that come from city staff. In fact, you had that with st

3:14:35Joe's they had it they had a

3:14:38An issue with funding

3:14:40They came to us we wrote a report you got to a positive vote

3:14:44That's how it works and and I I would say that for our three correct guess

3:14:49If we were sitting down to do that, that's what this board is looking for. So from a fiduciary responsibility

3:14:55So I'm not talking about community here. I'm talking about this board. You as a council

3:14:59That's what's missing here. There hasn't been any discussion. I mean, I look at I was reading the the

3:15:06The letter that came in too with everybody else

3:15:08The cash flow issue is can we work on that? Is this a loan that you need to get from here to there?

3:15:14What is this thing with the loan turning into a grant?

3:15:18We are out of the loop. So we can't give you good advice and that's off

3:15:21That is not a place that we normally operate

3:15:23We normally have a position for from staff's perspective. We think you can do this

3:15:29So I think maybe there's an oppen depends what you want to do tonight as a council as a whole

3:15:34But let me sort of speak from the sort of this chair

3:15:36Is what if we were to sit down with the the three guests tonight so that we can understand these things so that we can document it

3:15:44And call an emergency meeting. I have no idea the the ripples of august

3:15:4913 14th or 50th. I I'm just drawn up and so there it is

3:15:53I shouldn't even have to think about that

3:15:55And then we just get that done so that we can bring you options that you might get to that positive place and it might be simply as

3:16:03Let us understand the ripple into sort of

3:16:06What does it do to the two million dollar campaign? I I cannot give you an answer to that tonight because I'm we've not we have not been engaged in that

3:16:12And that's not a good place for you. I think

3:16:16And yet we're all committed to it. So I I think that's the that's a rub we've got

3:16:20Maybe the the issue here is sit down with city staff so that we can get it sit down with county staff

3:16:27But you know, we were just we were just on the phone today with with with county staff

3:16:31It doesn't matter who a senior county staff and we could bring something back that says we think this is the clearest path forward

3:16:38And it doesn't upset any of the other apple carts

3:16:41Or there's an agreement that you can discuss in camera because these things are in camera material if it had to be

3:16:48So I think perhaps what's missing is the opportunity here for

3:16:52You know, I I'm watching

3:16:54DCL click bush sort of try to answer things and and we're doing it the simple answer is we're not involved

3:16:59So we don't have answers

3:17:01And I don't think that's appropriate for you to hear that from us, but it is tonight. So I think the opportunity is perhaps

3:17:08If we want to keep our powder dry with deadlines in place

3:17:11There should be a meeting that we just do immediately

3:17:14And then staff can get at this if that would be helpful for what you need on the documentation side because at some point

3:17:22You do not want so let me say this and you're not suggesting that

3:17:25At some point you do not want to be the backstop for all other campaigns that also might have issues

3:17:30You need to have a reason that you've done this so that you can see yes or no the next time

3:17:35If if you just do it tonight this way, I think it is a bit of a heartstrings and we're struggling with that

3:17:42But as a board that's not you

3:17:44That's not your lane your lane is to make decisions differently

3:17:48and so

3:17:49If with the opportunity tonight mr. Mayor through the councillor, I think that might be an opportunity for us to

3:17:55Clear this track. So, you know, we're in a couple hours here and it's good stuff

3:17:59But let's document it for you so that

3:18:02In the future there's a reason that we can get behind it

3:18:04You can get behind it because you have cleared it from our perspective

3:18:08You know our finance staff have looked at it just from a risk a quick risk

3:18:11Because there's no due diligence here respectfully. You've probably done lots. So I am not talking about the campaign

3:18:18But from this table if you're looking for due diligence, you're not voting on it tonight with due diligence

3:18:24It doesn't mean it's bad. It just means it's not there for you

3:18:27Perhaps we can come back with a is it better to open up the existing rfp?

3:18:32Maybe maybe not because we don't know the details of how does that impact the campaign and the other

3:18:38contributions, but but we would have serious questions around

3:18:42A donor backed out last thursday and we're in this pickle three days later

3:18:47How can we help you with that because I just can't get my head around it here tonight to help you with that

3:18:52So I think that's the opportunity

3:18:54And we've got lots of examples to try to get through that. You know, I love getting to yes

3:18:58But sometimes policy on on distribution of public funds is is likely important as a board

3:19:04Not likely as important is important as a board and that will give you comfort when you say yes to this

3:19:11You know, I can't imagine we're likely coming back with a report that says no after all the discussions tonight

3:19:16But we might come back with a report that says this is how you get there

3:19:20And you take these steps that are not

3:19:23Clear enough for everybody tonight versus a complete deferral all those sort of things

3:19:27I I let us understand the deadlines a little more

3:19:30That's the value added that I would say to the three community guests that staff bring to it as well respectfully

3:19:36And that's what you're looking for from

3:19:38Your staff to help you with this and we're not being helpful because we're out of loop and we need to get in the loop

3:19:44to walk you through it so mr. Mayor that's just

3:19:47Observations for this chair might help us move on a little faster as we're getting near the end

3:19:52Or you might just want to fund it anyway, but I'll just leave that as an alternative option for you as decision makers

3:19:59Thank you

3:20:00So councillor roerich still has the floor

3:20:03um, you know from my vantage point both looking at my colleagues on screen and in the room there seem to be um

3:20:11Some some positive lives if I could call it that as to potential referral on the matter

3:20:19um

3:20:20with exactly the sort of process as you

3:20:25Laid out for us

3:20:26So I will I can't move a motion of referral

3:20:30But councillor a work does have um the floor so up up to you to consider

3:20:36How we move forward. Thanks margoth re through you

3:20:39To council I would like to move a motion to refer the recommendation to staff

3:20:45for their consideration

3:20:47And asking them to come back with um an emergency meeting

3:20:52for consideration. Yep, and and seconded by uh councillor boost until

3:20:58Yeah, uh, and going to order your worship. Sure. Just the timeline

3:21:03Of when it when it needs to come back

3:21:06um, well

3:21:08I think

3:21:11I think it's implied that an august 15th is a is an urgent matter

3:21:16And it's implied that our staff want to work with the three that are here as guests tonight

3:21:22And I think some sort of information would come back to me as the chair and then maybe a

3:21:26um a doodle

3:21:28Calendar request can glow to all of us. I think

3:21:31I I think it's implied that it would be before this august 15th deadline. Am I correct to staff on that?

3:21:38Mr. Mayor, you're correct. We will operate with the sense of urgency you've given it this evening

3:21:42We'll look to you to do the same when we pick a date and we'll work with the the three guests so that we completely understand

3:21:50We also don't want to put you in a predicament the night before our decision that really so we likely will try to find a couple of days

3:21:56Before and so that there's a breathing space for you to question lots of things, but we have to understand

3:22:03What is this deadline? Maybe there's a solution to the deadline. That's helpful that we could

3:22:08Yeah, we get the sense of urgency and we'll operate that way

3:22:12yep

3:22:13All right, I'm gonna call the vote on

3:22:16Councillor Downer first

3:22:18Can I just clarify one issue now the letter calls these

3:22:22dates

3:22:22Targets not deadlines. Is that the case?

3:22:25The targets is not hard fast deadline. So

3:22:29We've got breathing breathing space for a few days that

3:22:32Yes, they are targets that we outlined in our letter of commitment to cmhc. Okay, great. Thanks

3:22:41So so they are deadlines

3:22:44Because that's part of your obligation for financial contributions or no

3:22:52I'm not trying to ask that

3:22:54like like I'm not trying to ask that

3:22:57Underhanded by any means I'm actually I'm actually

3:23:00serious like

3:23:01Is it a target meaning you have a

3:23:04week

3:23:05Plus or minus or or because it's actually embedded in your financial obligations to see

3:23:12cmhc that it is something that has to be met by august 15th

3:23:17Or is that something you have to just discuss with staff?

3:23:20Yeah, and oh okay, Colleen

3:23:23Um to the mayor if maybe I can jump in I think that's part of the conversation that we're gonna have probably tomorrow morning

3:23:28Heads up to those of you our guests

3:23:31Because we need to understand because the relationship between cmhc is not through homes for good the legal relationship with cmhc sits with kindle

3:23:39So that's part of like I've you know to be clear. I've literally not had a conversation with miss ebron

3:23:45So we're gonna have that conversation tomorrow morning. So I can try to get clarity on that and bring you that report back

3:23:51Okay, thank you. Thank you very much

3:23:55um, okay

3:23:57Let's call the vote on this and before I just call the vote

3:24:01I I started I started by saying I know that we are all trying to figure out how to get to yes

3:24:06I just heard

3:24:08Our c. A. O. Say the same thing right the very end here of this conversation

3:24:12And I've heard it many times through through people my colleagues here too. So that's that's good

3:24:17That's a good position to start with right and uh, so let's see what happens

3:24:23it's

3:24:24in my in my

3:24:25Point of view. It's it's better than a no

3:24:28so

3:24:29So it's a we'll see

3:24:31And we'll we'll we'll see what happens and see if uh, we require an emergency meeting

3:24:37To help with the supportive housing needs. Okay, so

3:24:40Is anyone against the referral?

3:24:44Okay in favor mr. Mayor on the phone. I did favor

3:24:48Okay, thank you councillor gibson. And can you just throw it up on the screen just so everyone at home can see it to the clerks

3:24:54Apologies, mr. Mayor. We've not received anything in writing

3:24:57Yeah, okay

3:24:59But the motion um, the motion is to refer can you say it again a councillor

3:25:05Oror this for audio to do you marigot three. I think this is part of our procedural bylaw

3:25:10Wording and so I have to provide it in writing. That's right as opposed to saying it out loud. Okay. Okay, so if I could have just

3:25:17Yeah, I'm gonna give you 30 seconds. Yeah. Yeah, thanks

3:25:21Yeah, no problem. I always mistype when the clock is ticking

3:25:27While we're just waiting for that, um

3:25:31I will again call the vote as soon as it comes up on the screen because I kind of did because we just had a councillor

3:25:36Say yes, um to you, uh, councillor boosted. Yes. Thank you. I just want to say thank you to the cao and to the staff

3:25:44You know, I started off with process and and process and process and how I was feeling and I felt, you know

3:25:50Validated by the cao and this process of my calling. So thank you for that

3:25:56Thank you

3:25:58Okay, um, well just wait. Just wait a second everybody and we'll we'll get that done

3:26:11So through you marigot three if I can just say it out loud and then we can say yes, that's what we all heard

3:26:17Sure, uh motion to refer the matter to staff for urgent consideration

3:26:20resulting in an emergency meeting

3:26:23of council in the coming weeks

3:26:25That work

3:26:27Yep, and councillor boosted till was I think still okay with seconding that

3:26:32Councillor gallo, we've had audio and verbally stated. All right. Again, I'm just going to call the vote

3:26:36I know councillor Gibson said yes, but is anyone against the referral

3:26:41All right, so that's unanimous. Thank you to our our guests that have answered a lot of questions

3:26:46And I'm sure you'll be answering a lot more, but at least you'll know that there's a movement. Uh, we'll see what happens

3:26:52Okay, thank you very much for joining us

3:26:54and thank you very much for uh

3:26:56Leave the conversation about it appreciate that

3:26:59uh, councillor Chew I'm looking at you tonight for uh, the bylaws, please and uh

3:27:06You don't need to read them all but maybe just the numbers there for us

3:27:12Through you mr. Mayor, I'm actually quite excited to be moving these bylaws