Amend Guelph’s capital budget for project TC0072 – Digital Signs (ICIP-GUE-06) by: Deferring 2024 operating impacts of $257,600 to 2025 Eliminating the 2025 capital budget of…

1:36:20Make the budget start at 9.9. So those motions are going to come up now. I believe

1:36:27that council of men goes 2024 to 2027 operating budget by reducing the

1:36:372024 by 1,000,000

1:36:40$5,300 for the county of Wellington's revised budget submission relating to the housing and homelessness plan

1:36:45Councillor Gibson will move that Colossian will second it. I will call the vote anyone against that

1:36:54You're against that Councillor

1:36:56Boston, I'm sorry Councillor Caton. You're against I'm sorry. You're muted Councillor Caton

1:37:04Is that reducing their ask by a million?

1:37:07So a couple of weeks ago the social services committee was able to

1:37:13realign

1:37:14Some funding and this does not have any impact on the actual work that they're doing

1:37:20It's just a lowered amount that was stated over the last couple weeks. So to recognize that reduction

1:37:26But not a reduction in the work

1:37:29We have to just formally accept that. I just want to make sure if you're against it. That's your right

1:37:34I just wanted to make sure you weren't the only one kind of sitting there on that. No, no, I just misunderstood the intent

1:37:39Okay, perfect. Yeah, this is just administrative stuff to kind of set us at the 9.9 percent

1:37:45To start the budget amendments because there's been some changes of that and assessment growth

1:37:50So the next one I think to come up is about so that I'll call that unanimous, okay

1:37:56So the next one is about assessment growth. I believe

1:38:01Yep

1:38:02The council amend the Gwell's 2024 to 2027 operating budget by reducing the 2024 by

1:38:09236,706 to reflect the impact of additional assessment revenue who wants to help me on that Gibson Downer

1:38:16Call the vote. Is anyone against that?

1:38:21Unanimous, okay, doesn't it feel good to reduce the budget?

1:38:26I saw some thumbs up. That's a good. That's a good sign for the rest of the day. All right on a roll

1:38:32I like it. We're all pumped to make the budget lower. Awesome. Okay, those two those two were good. Thank you

1:38:38So now we've set the stage now

1:38:40That's the administrator stuff out of the way to kind of set the foundation of 9.9

1:38:45I am moving now to the actual

1:38:50tabling of

1:38:53Amendments, let me just confer with the clerk for a moment. That just gives you a visual

1:39:23Okay

1:39:25We're moving good that one's done

1:39:28That one's done

1:39:30Councillor Goller, you're up my friend. I will ask the clerk

1:39:36We're gonna move along here by having each motion come up on the screen. I will read them out

1:39:42And then I will turn to the person that's had their intention put up on the screen. So get ready. Okay

1:39:47Councillor Goller, can we have that up on the screen? It's exciting. I don't know which one it is. That's okay

1:39:57Come on down

1:39:59All right that council amend the Gwell's 2024 to 2027 operating budget by increasing the 2024 one time by

1:40:0843,335 and

1:40:10increasing

1:40:112025 one time by 43,335

1:40:15To provide a grant to the Guelph Wellington Ontario health team for physician recruitment

1:40:20subject to the receipt of the corresponding

1:40:23Contributions for this initiative from the County of Wellington and Guelph Chamber of Commerce

1:40:28Funded through the tax levy. Is there a seconder for that?

1:40:34Gibson you're seconding it and a question but I but I'm gonna let each mover

1:40:40Have like 30 seconds to describe whether I mean it's pretty obvious

1:40:45In fact, if a mover knows that the motion is obvious, please just say it's obvious

1:40:49But I'll call over to you if you need to say anything. Thank you worship

1:40:53We have seen this done in other municipalities and the city pays for a portion of this

1:40:57I hear from many of my constituents who have a hard time finding a family doctor here in Guelph. This would address that issue

1:41:04Thank you. Okay. Thank you Gibson. You had a question. Thank you

1:41:10Maybe a common question for me today just in terms of the funding source. It does say tax levy

1:41:14So is this it's a two-year grant funding, but it will be

1:41:18Removed from the base budget in two years. I'm assuming so it's two two-year impact to the base budget, but then it will be removed

1:41:25Correct. It's not coming from contingency or anything like that

1:41:28Correct based on the way that that was worded agreed

1:41:32No issue. Thank you

1:41:34Goal. I'm sorry a Rourke

1:41:36Thanks, Margarita. I'd like to propose an amendment. I had similar motion

1:41:40But what it would do is it would fund it by the tax operating contingency reserve number 180 and

1:41:47Only for those two years. Okay. Goal will second your amendment. Okay?

1:41:52I'm gonna call the vote on the amendment then so we're doing this but just out of a different account

1:41:56It won't actually impact the tax rate. Okay, is anyone against that?

1:42:01Nobody awesome, so now I'm going back to the main motion as amended. I'm gonna call the vote anyone against that

1:42:11unanimous done

1:42:14Next counselor Galler you're still up

1:42:17Your worship. I'll wait for the clerk to put the next one up the council amend the goals 2024 to

1:42:232027 operating budget by increasing

1:42:262024 by a million dollars for the affordable housing reserve the increase from 500k to 1.5 million in total then

1:42:33Funded by the tax base. Is there even a seconder for this?

1:42:39Closet is seconding that

1:42:41You can have a few words on that. Thank you worship

1:42:44We have seen a significant increase in our police services budget in our paramedic services budget and we're here from the hospital

1:42:52They're also having increased expenses

1:42:54A lot of this comes back to the issue of homelessness here in the city. This would directly tackle that

1:43:01Although there are now at the provincial level more more incentives and development fee

1:43:08Discounts for people building affordable housing and social housing. It still doesn't help kickstart projects

1:43:13When funding comes from the province or from the federal level

1:43:16There needs to be funding available locally that can be that then can be matched by those other levels of government

1:43:23Wellington County is putting 1.4 million dollars

1:43:27per year towards their affordable housing reserve

1:43:30Waterloo region is putting about 2.9 million in 2024 for their affordable housing reserve

1:43:35I think we need to put some money here

1:43:38Otherwise, we're going to see those other budgets continue to increase because we're not addressing the the core of the problem

1:43:45Which is the shortage of social housing and affordable housing in the city of Guelph?

1:43:51All right, thank you. Is there any questions on this matter before I call the vote?

1:43:56Seeing none, okay, I'll call the vote. Is there anyone against please raise your hand

1:44:00Okay, it looks like only three or four that class in Guller and Keaton. Okay, so that fails

1:44:10Thank You counselor Guller

1:44:13Moving right along

1:44:15Okay, this one here clerks says council or blank. So should I just randomly pick one?

1:44:32Does anyone know who which one of you would have wanted to increase the budget?

1:44:37The you want to increase the budget? Yeah, so is this yours about capital budget by increasing capital project CT?

1:44:44008 no, I have one on value for money audits

1:44:48Yeah, can you just throw this one up on the screen? It was in order

1:44:55We'll see no, no, no, what's not what's not do that. I mean let's pretend we did and not okay

1:45:01Staff really no don't

1:45:05Okay, councillor work. I'll go to you good thing you put up your hand. So this is the one about

1:45:37$50,000 to the clerks. Okay, so that council and it will come up on the screen

1:45:41I'm just reading as we go that council amend the 2024 to 2027 operating budget by increasing each of the 2024 to

1:45:492027 by $50,000 for the completion of at least two value for money reviews each year

1:45:56Funded by the efficiency innovation and opportunity reserve number 351

1:46:01And that staff be directed to bring a proposed terms of reference to the audit committee no later than Q1

1:46:082024 is there a seconder for that one alt will second that for us quick commentary. Do you need to go ahead?

1:46:15Sure. Thanks, Mayor Guthrie. I had initially said I would bring forward

1:46:20Emotion to ask finance do on a rotating basis zero-based budgeting

1:46:24By business unit or or department so that we start to attack possible efficiencies within the operating budget

1:46:33Finance went away and their recommendation was that rather than do that

1:46:36We do value for money audits to look at the value of the services that are being delivered to the community

1:46:41whether they're still relevant the overall budget and so we're looking beyond net new and we are looking throughout the budget cycle at

1:46:50efficiencies or compressions or

1:46:53Projects that might no longer be of highest and best value

1:46:57It would be done by our internal audit folks our internal audit and our strategy folks and finance all took a look at it

1:47:04They want to be able to come back with terms of reference for that

1:47:08But they wanted a tiny amount in the budget in the event that some of that had to be contracted out

1:47:13so usually our audits our process audits or

1:47:17Compliance audits this helps us to get to actually a value for money on a rotating basis

1:47:22To be always assessing and not just sort of adding on

1:47:26Staff are proposing the word unit instead of department or service

1:47:29Because it will make more sense for some areas for example, you know to do

1:47:34Cultural facilities as opposed to all of parks and rec

1:47:38Okay, thank you. That's well explained

1:47:40I have one quick question, but does anyone have a question before me?

1:47:44Okay, one quick question

1:47:47The province has been giving pretty much every year under the audit and accountability fund

1:47:52Funding to municipalities to do exactly this work all funded from the province already. I'm just wondering how you feel

1:48:01This is a requirement if we are getting

1:48:04Money from the province every year for the audit and accountability grants and if those aren't sure then this would be nice to

1:48:13Have in the base budget as some some

1:48:16and so

1:48:18To you, Mr. Mayor, I believe that audit and accountability fund is for smaller municipalities

1:48:24We have received some money in the past from that grant when it was like there was a targeted piece on

1:48:30Larger municipalities at the time

1:48:33So I would say that the proposed recommendation is as good as a in case there is not an opportunity for that

1:48:40We will definitely follow up perfect perfect. Thank you so much

1:48:44Margaritory and of course right back to the mover

1:48:45Yeah, I would just add Margaritory that the motion is an up to 50,000

1:48:50And so if there was grant funding then it wouldn't be required

1:48:53alt

1:48:55Speaking on behalf the audit committee we're quite excited about this opportunity to do value for money

1:49:01Okay, but the audit committee is all of us

1:49:04So you really you're speaking on behalf is you as the chair speaking on behalf of all of us and me as chair

1:49:10I was about to find out there's some surprise audit committee somewhere the council

1:49:15Yeah, I have like

1:49:17Where where are you meeting? Okay? This sounds good. I will call the vote is anyone against this one

1:49:24Nobody that's unanimous well done

1:49:31councillor or work

1:49:34Doesn't need to do this one because we just did it was the same as gollars on the OHT

1:49:38Okay on the physician recruitment

1:49:41Let's bear with it. Okay, so staff have provided this

1:50:05this novel in sort of an order of

1:50:10Editions and then into reductions so I'm actually entering the realm of reductions now

1:50:16Is there anything more from additions that are popping up at this moment?

1:50:20I mean, it's always something comes up later. I'll never stop it, but okay. All right, so additions are done

1:50:30Go ahead to the clerk. Yeah, thank you, mr. Mayor

1:50:32Just for council's benefit staff and public watching the information we've provided with

1:50:37To Mayor Guthrie and and finance staff etc. Is all of the additions and reductions that we've received thus far by calendar year

1:50:45It's not intended to be sort of a step-by-step process

1:50:48I think that the council can you know table of motion as they see fit obviously through chair and with the chairs

1:50:54permission space there but

1:50:56That deck is a year by year additions and reductions just a catalog of all of the submissions

1:51:02We've received from members of council. So if you've sent it into clerks

1:51:05Mayor Guthrie has it in that deck and

1:51:08Mayor Guthrie can work through that as as you see fit

1:51:10So the we've worked through the 2024 applications of the additions we've received

1:51:16The next grouping is is in the reduction slide. Yep. Okay. Thank you for that clarity

1:51:21Okay, we're on the top here Councillor Gibson. It looks like you're up

1:51:26And I'll just

1:51:28Start reading it out loud. It's

1:51:31That's the one yep that council amend gloves 2024 to 2027 operating budget by amending the following net amounts

1:51:39compensation reduction offset by reduction in revenues and revenue reserve transfers

1:51:44To reflect a phasing approach of budgeting 50% of permanent staffing resources in year one and the remaining 50% in the second year

1:51:522024 decrease of just over 2.4 million

1:51:562025 increase of just over 60,000

1:51:592026 decrease of just over 2 million

1:52:022027 increase of 1.8 million approximately and 2028 increase of

1:52:082.9 million

1:52:10Approximately so is there a seconder for that?

1:52:15Okay

1:52:17Okay

1:52:18Agreed in planning so whatever

1:52:22Okay

1:52:24Councillor work. Yeah, do you want to give a little if you don't mind? Yeah, thank you

1:52:27Priam so first of all, thanks to staff for your openness and transparency through the budget process

1:52:33Thanks to my budget buddy

1:52:34You're a big help and I know that we went a long way down the rabbit hole before we arrived here

1:52:37But this is just multi direction multi-year direction

1:52:40We have the ability now to look at the next four years of growth of our city

1:52:44And I know there's gonna be lots of contributions from a lot of different counselors

1:52:48I have been here at budget before where I've put 30 amendments on the table and we've gone fought over every single one

1:52:53This is just a simplistic way of saying we are going to phase in this growth as smoothly and is as

1:53:00manageable as possible

1:53:02Every year now for the next four years. We will be bumping out the full cost of our staffing compliment

1:53:08It's not a cut. It's by no means a no

1:53:11It is a yes, but it is in a phased-in approach and I think it's a little bit more manageable for

1:53:16Homeowners and business owners and taxpayers in the city and I think it serves the goal of council to provide some relief in 2024

1:53:23Understanding that it will be a phased-in approach over the next few years

1:53:27So this will be my big contribution today

1:53:30Is to phase in staffing? I know there's going to be other contributions, but I do appreciate

1:53:34Staffing your openness to working me with on on this one. Thank you

1:53:38Okay, any questions on this one before I call the vote alt

1:53:42Thank you. I was just wondering if we could please hear from mr.

1:53:45Stewart or designate on on your thoughts on this, please

1:53:50So you mr. Mayor to the council

1:53:54You know, I think this is

1:53:56It's obviously here and we haven't put comments on there that we can't support this we can support that

1:54:00So let me try to keep my answer short and sweet here. It was more than as best I can we can support this it moves the programs forward

1:54:06As the councillor said over the two years, but I think wisely he's

1:54:11And both him and the second or have got it so that encompasses the entire multi-year budget because it does

1:54:17Once you begin the stagger it continues. So we can get behind this

1:54:20It keeps moving the programs forward and it deals with some flexibility in this rather large

1:54:26tax increase this year

1:54:30Okay, I can call the oh, okay. Sorry councillor

1:54:33Thanks, mayor Guthrie. I would just comment to councillor Gibson's motion

1:54:37I think it sends a clear signal to the community

1:54:40that we are watching the expansion of

1:54:44Staffing at the city. We're watching the expansion of the operating budget. We hear their concerns

1:54:49We know other levels of government have compressions

1:54:52And that we're limited in what we're able to do and how fast we're able to do it

1:54:56And so I think this is a wise motion. I'm happy to second

1:55:00Thank you and uh, karan, please

1:55:04Mr. Mayor, I know you you don't necessarily want comments comments on every motion

1:55:09But our our we want to grow

1:55:12And our we want to

1:55:15There's things we can compress and things we can't we want to grow transit. We want to

1:55:19Expand we we have a commitment. We want more people on our buses. Our city is growing. We have more routes

1:55:24I think this is the one area where compression is really

1:55:28Dangerous if we take what was a 10-year plan has gone to a 13-year plan and now to a 15 to 17-year plan

1:55:34I think this is the one the one that I can't support when it comes to compression

1:55:38I think councillor Caron you're not you're not speaking to the motion on the floor at all

1:55:44Yeah

1:55:48No, this is only about this is only about staggering the hires through salary wages benefits over the next four years

1:55:56Has nothing to do with anything with 13 15 years

1:56:00Yeah, that's okay. I know what you're talking about. I just want to make sure that you were aware. Yeah

1:56:04Yeah, that's all it's all good

1:56:12Okay, I'll call the vote on this

1:56:14Is anyone against?

1:56:18Okay, that passes unanimously. Thank you very much

1:56:23And we'll just go to okay councillor gibson. You're still up

1:56:32Yep, thank you that council amend golf's 2024 to 20 27 operating budget by reducing the 2024 library budget

1:56:40by 257 111 and increasing

1:56:45the 2025 library budget by 25,000

1:56:49Sorry 257,111

1:56:52Furthermore the 2026 library budget be reduced by 331

1:56:58200 and then the 20 27 000 oh my gosh, sorry everybody and that the 20 27 year increased by 331

1:57:06200 as a result of the city phase in of corporate building maintenance positions for the new library

1:57:11Okay, is there a seconder counselor billings? Oh, okay seconded by counselor billings

1:57:17To the mover go ahead. So it's the exact same nature as the previous motion. I've said this many times

1:57:24This is by no, this is I want to make sure I'm clear. This is not personal. This is never personal

1:57:29This is a budgetary ask. We're looking at projecting out to 20 27 20 26 when we have a large expansion of our library services

1:57:36In the city. This is just simply sending the same message to the library that we've sent to staff

1:57:40We would like to phase that growth in in a manageable way

1:57:43This does achieve some savings for 2024 for the city

1:57:46But it also acknowledges that that savings that those costs will be burdened on to further years

1:57:52But we can continue to phase that growth in a little bit slower than what is being proposed

1:57:57I know the library has been really transparent about where the costs are going

1:58:01And that's been appreciated

1:58:03But this is just again a similar vein a very tough budget this year looking to phase in those growth aspects of our operations

1:58:11Over a similar time frame. I can only limit the the conversation this year to 2024

1:58:17Simply because I don't sit on the library board

1:58:19But this would be a similar direction that I would give in each year moving forward over the four-year term of of the budget

1:58:25So, um, thanks very much for that

1:58:28Okay, is there any question? Yeah, councillor downer has a question

1:58:32So this is to the mover so

1:58:34that phase in

1:58:36Is around it's it's taken a half a million from the phase in that's in the city's budget

1:58:41So are you putting that 247,000 back into the city's budget or are we not

1:58:47Are we then compromising the phase in plan?

1:58:51Great question

1:58:52I'm going to ask staff to support me on that answer because they held me with the wording of the motion

1:58:59I believe I believed it was all linked together that if the first motion had failed this motion would have changed

1:59:12um

1:59:14Through you to the councillor. No, it will not compromise the the phase in this was already adjusted for the phase in and the library was

1:59:23um adding their staffing positions

1:59:26Earlier to to ramp up and this is just taking 50 percent of that and phasing it in

1:59:3250 percent into the following year similar to the city motion

1:59:36So so then that money stays into the phase in it doesn't go to the library

1:59:41It stays in the city's budget. It's not going to reduce the overall budget because

1:59:46That money is staying in the phase in

1:59:49No, it will reduce the overall city budget by

1:59:52that 257,000

1:59:54and that will

1:59:56Reduce the tax levy. So does that reduce the phase in amount then for the city?

2:00:01We were told this was a wash

2:00:04in the in our budget questions that

2:00:06The money that was being given to the library was part of the phase in that we would have in the city budget

2:00:12And that would go into reserves

2:00:14And that now it would be if we the second motion would then be if we took it out of the library

2:00:20We would have to then add it if we wanted to continue on our phase in program

2:00:25We would have to add it back into the city's budget. That's what we were told will me ask questions

2:00:38So uh to councillor downer

2:00:41The way in which we

2:00:43looked at this motion is that we did not touch the phase in that stayed the same and all we did was reduce 24

2:00:49And then add it back to 25 in terms of the library budget

2:00:53And so through that period the phase in on the city side stayed the same as proposed and so for that reason

2:01:01There's no impact to the phase in overall because it's it's a

2:01:05Reduction in one year and a bump back up in in the next year. So there's been been no change

2:01:10So you're you're increasing the phase in amount for next year

2:01:15I'm just increasing the comp budget in the library next year through this motion reducing the comp budget in the library

2:01:23in 24 increasing it back up in 25

2:01:29If I may mr. Mayor, so the

2:01:31I would like to give the direction

2:01:33But i'm not on the board tonight and I can't give that direction to the library

2:01:37To follow a similar suit to what we've asked the city to do which is

2:01:40Continue to phase in on overall four years the growth of the operations budget

2:01:45I think if i'm

2:01:46Articulated right the what i'm asking the library to is just simply do it one year

2:01:50Knowing that the second half of those costs for 2024 are going to be added to the 2025 ask

2:01:55We may be we may very well be here next year doing the same thing phasing it in over the next year

2:02:01Unless the library board gives similar direction at their level to uh to the organization

2:02:06So this is just a simply instead of a four-year

2:02:09Request of a phase in this is a one-year request for phasing in and then we'll we'll probably have to deal with again next year

2:02:14Unless the library board sort of follows suit with what the city's doing other questions on this before I call the vote

2:02:24Okay, seeing none. I'll call the vote. Is anyone against this phase in?

2:02:28Okay, I have four against

2:02:32Karan alt downer and quasim so that passes

2:02:36Okay, I'm going to switch gears for a moment here

2:02:41um because we have um I have a motion that I was remember during my intentions

2:02:47I had brought up that I was thinking about using

2:02:50um the surface

2:02:52for

2:02:54What I would feel is a good reason. Um

2:02:57We have a guest here from the county just in case there's a question

2:03:00And I don't want this guest from the county to wait around

2:03:04If there's any questions, so um

2:03:07If you don't mind this actually is an addition because I'm kind of switching gears by going back to an addition

2:03:11but using funds out of the surplus and

2:03:15I'll just have the clerks put that up

2:03:17I I'm not going to remove myself as the chair

2:03:19So it'll be up to someone here to help move or second it for me

2:03:22But it's that council amend the 2024 to 2027 operating budget by increasing 2024 by $100,000 funded from the tax-supported operating

2:03:32contingency reserve to provide any necessary health and safety supports as part of the action of the october 17th 2023 motion

2:03:40Calling on the county of wellington to form and lead an integrated team approach to undertake regular wellness checks on any existing or new

2:03:48unstructured encampments within the city of guelph

2:03:51And that the dispersements of funds shall be done following recommendations from the county of wellington and under the delegated authority of our deputy

2:03:59CAO of public services and that a report on how these funds were used be provided to city council

2:04:05And through the county of wellington no later than june of this coming year

2:04:09Okay, would you be willing to move it downer and uh and uh galler will second. Thank you

2:04:16um

2:04:17I think the motion captures what it is

2:04:20But they're with the you know, hey, here's the stats last year. We had 10 encampments today. We have 20

2:04:26We already actioned in october in the unanimous unanimous vote of council to try to see the the help for these encampments

2:04:34um, there will naturally probably be

2:04:38some sort of um

2:04:40Probably items that some of these people may need medicine on site supports

2:04:47That will be required as the county creates this integrated team to go and look to help these people in encampments

2:04:53And so in working with the deputy CAO

2:04:56It's also been relayed to the county just to make sure that they were aware that I was going to bring this forward

2:05:02There has been um agreement on that that this could be of good use

2:05:06Uh, and then they would report back. So um, that's that's it. Uh, but so any questions councillor Allt

2:05:13Thank you. America three through you to either staff or through our visitor from the county

2:05:18Um, I'm supportive of the principle here and I was just wondering if it could be outlined

2:05:23Uh, is this similar to what sanguine and other groups are doing on the street that to me strikes me as as an appropriate method methodology

2:05:32So through the mayor to councillor Allt

2:05:33I think that is yet to be determined the first meeting the county is pulling together is on tuesday coming up

2:05:38And so the county is actioning that motion that you uh referred to them on october the 17th

2:05:44Calling on the county to uh to form this integrated team

2:05:47I think in in short what I would say is what we're seeing is that there's a number of different social service agencies working in the encampments

2:05:54But there isn't a coordinated approach. So our concern is that encampment x might have a visit from

2:06:00A gulf community health center nurse a stepping stone social worker a sanguine worker one day an encampment y

2:06:06May not have a visit from anybody because there isn't a coordinated approach

2:06:09And so I think the intention of the motion from october is to ask the county to lead that coordinated approach

2:06:15With public health being a key partner at the table, which is an important part of this

2:06:19um, and I think the mayor's motion just gives some

2:06:21Um funding infusion into into that initiative. So as I say our first meeting, uh, I've had discussions with with mizartuso

2:06:29We do have somebody here from the county. Um, but I think what I can say

2:06:33On on both of our behalves is that

2:06:36We will meet on tuesday and we will figure out how best to action this motion and take the direction that council has given us

2:06:42Thank you very much given that you talked about a coordinated approach. I am quite supportive of

2:06:47Councillor Busuttil. Thank you. Yes. Thank you and through the mayor just to the staff has public health been consulted

2:06:53So through the mayor to the council, I did have conversations with dr. Tenenbaum and uh, Mr

2:06:58Chris beverage back in october when you passed the original motion to make them aware of the of the motion

2:07:03Because that motion that council passed in october does name public health

2:07:06So I did have the conversations with dr. Tenenbaum and chris beverage

2:07:10I know that dr. Mercer has been invited to the meeting on tuesday

2:07:14But I I don't know if she or a rep will be attending, but they have been invited

2:07:20Okay, uh, seeing nothing further. I'll call the vote on this then is anyone against that motion

2:07:26Okay, that's unanimous and so to our county friend. You don't have to sit here all day. Yeah, okay

2:07:35It is riveting though. I mean

2:07:37Go get popcorn and come on back. All right. Thank you. And thank you council for me jumping that in there

2:07:42Sorry for for that, but I appreciate that. Okay. Let me just look at my list

2:08:03There was a third one provided, but I believe because the first two passed

2:08:06I think it's the third one's irrelevant. Yeah, thank you

2:08:21Okay, uh councillor or work, um that council

2:08:25amend

2:08:27golf's

2:08:282024 to 2027 multi-year budget by there's like an abcde

2:08:34Here is that okay with you to table that now? Yeah. Yeah, okay. Um, so

2:08:39Um, I'll just I'll just read it out if that's okay

2:08:41I just need to know which one it is and then there was a contingency motion in case councillor gibson's motion passed because the numbers changed

2:08:48Through you mr. Mayor to the council and for council benefit whichever motion you're intending to to move you can begin reading out

2:08:54We'll triage and pull the right one up

2:08:56And we'll we'll then be able to balance as you said council or work the other motions that you sent in that were contingencies based on

2:09:02What you choose to move? Okay

2:09:06Okay, if I do this one then for you or councillor work. Yeah, is it tc 0072 digital signs?

2:09:13It's uh tc 0079 I have on here

2:09:20Okay, so this is different that's that's fine. Yeah, if you have it in front of you

2:09:23Well, it's on the screen

2:09:24I'll just read it out now the council amend golf's capital budget for project tc 0072 digital signs

2:09:30deferring

2:09:312024 operating impacts of 200

2:09:337600 to 2025 be eliminating the 2025 capital budget of 600 000 and eliminating the 2025 operating impacts of

2:09:42134 500

2:09:44C eliminating the 2026 capital budget of 600 000 and eliminating the 2026 operating impacts of

2:09:51234 500

2:09:52D eliminating the 2027 capital budget of 600 000 and e

2:09:58eliminating the 2028 to 2031 capital forecast of 1 250 000 dollars each year and eliminating the

2:10:062029 operating impacts of

2:10:09300 000

2:10:09dollars do I have a seconder for that one? Okay, gipson back to the mover go ahead

2:10:15Thank you, mayor Guthrie

2:10:17so

2:10:18If council approves this motion it means the digital science project approved in 2023 will be the piece that moves forward

2:10:25It will provide digital signs at the main transit hubs

2:10:29It will not however expand to 100 additional stops

2:10:33This is a project that originally was scoped out about 1.5 million two or three years ago

2:10:39The capital costs are now at 6.8 million

2:10:431.8 million of which are planned for 2024 27

2:10:47The reduction does not cut any existing service

2:10:51It does potentially impact customers who do not have access to internet or data

2:10:56However, we know that about 98.5 percent of the total population has cellular mobile connections

2:11:01So if people are leaving a home or their workplace or other places where they've got wi-fi they can check that

2:11:08People still have the paper version at the bus stop

2:11:11But this means that we don't expand to electronic signs at 100 locations in the city

2:11:18The other thing is once we create that

2:11:22capital infrastructure that asset

2:11:24We will be on the hook to replace that capital asset and it comes with a significant amount of operating cost

2:11:30so

2:11:33The digital signs project does have

2:11:36ICIP funding attached to it

2:11:38However, the city can request to allocate that funding to another transit project

2:11:42So that money stays within transit and can go to having buses on the road or other amenities

2:11:47Just not the digital signs

2:11:52Thank you. I just have a question from count sir alt and then I think a comment from count sir

2:11:56Gibson. Thank you very much. Mayor Guthrie. I was wondering if I could have mr. Jeras or

2:12:01A representative from transit, please speak to the motion. I understand that there will be 15 signs that are

2:12:09Preserved and the question would be is that acceptable and further is that

2:12:14Complementary of what we'd consider to be the industry standard

2:12:19at the present time

2:12:21So through the mayor to councillor Allt I will miss mcdonald and mr. Garris are coming down

2:12:25so that they can I think miss mcdonald is

2:12:29Likely the one coming to the podium to answer that question. Yes

2:12:32Courtney mcdonald who is our manager of business services at wealth transit through you through you counsellor

2:12:47There are risks to canceling and or reducing this project digital signs will be prioritized based not only on ridership at the stops

2:12:56But also the type of customers using the stops

2:12:58So we have the ability to look to see if it's affordable bus pass customers

2:13:02Customers utilizing the welcome to wealth program or seniors

2:13:06So customers without cell phones and data will not have access to real-time information and service alerts at the bus stops

2:13:13So as I previously mentioned the customers most impacted by this change would be affordable bus pass customers seniors welcome to wealth

2:13:20There's also a risk to the strategic plan should the digital signs be reduced and or count cancelled

2:13:26Digital signs help make it easier to get around

2:13:28It helps to improve movement within the transportation master plan and it provides greater accessibility to transit to provide real bus

2:13:34Survival information and service alerts

2:13:37The digital signs also help meet the tmp targets by providing a quality transit network

2:13:43And by providing equity so all customers have access to real bus survival information and service alerts

2:13:4950 stops would be a reasonable portion to start with

2:13:53We do think that there is a need for the hundred bus stops

2:13:56But 50 would be a good starting point to provide real-time information for our customers at the stops

2:14:01So what I'm saying with it? I wonder what I'm hearing you say is

2:14:07uh 15 stops if necessary, but not necessarily 15 stops you could use more

2:14:13The would it be possible? I don't want to put it as an attachment to your motion

2:14:18But I'm I'm wondering if we could have a report back at some point when we have

2:14:22An idea of the trends and the impact would that be possible to report back to us on that? Yes, that is possible and just to clarify

2:14:2950 50 5 0 5 0. Sorry. I just wanted to make sure and you know the older I get the worse. Are my hearing gets

2:14:35Yeah, that's that's not a problem transit planning on issuing the rfp in the new year

2:14:40So we will have better costing at that time. Yeah, great. Thank you

2:14:46Okay comment from councillor Gibson. Thank you. I just want to bring some levity here

2:14:50Just the quality of these motions and amendments. I just wanted to say like when we first started on council

2:14:55My motion would be cut the digital signs

2:14:57That's what it would have been and and we would have been around the horn and going back and forth with staff about

2:15:02The multi-memifications of all this credit to the mover credit to staff

2:15:05You've given us an eyes wide open look at what this motion means and I think it's a terrific way to for all of council to see it

2:15:12um on the motion itself

2:15:14um

2:15:15I I just

2:15:17I really believe in the ability to move forward

2:15:21That being said

2:15:23I I want to echo the words of the mover. We are not cutting a service today

2:15:28This is by no means a cut to the service. We're slowing down the enhancement of that service

2:15:33I I I completely adhere and listen to all of the

2:15:37um

2:15:38Desires of the strategic plan and for all the user groups that we've talked about

2:15:43We're not cutting that from them

2:15:45Today, we are simply slowing down the implementation of that service enhancement to them

2:15:50That does to say that we're never going to get to the every single bus stop at a digital sign

2:15:54It's to say we are slowing it down for an affordability reason

2:15:58um, I want to say a thousand times say we can't afford it

2:16:01But we can afford some we just can't afford everything and I think a lot of people around the horseshoe

2:16:07Are seeing this in their wards. I've seen it in my ward, you know best to good is a pretty standard

2:16:14acceptance around the horseshoe your growth from best to good downtown from best to good

2:16:18These are all sacrifices that we're making. This is not a no. This is just a

2:16:24It is a somewhat of a no

2:16:27We are moving forward some digital signs though on major on major reeds. So this motion. Yeah, this motion

2:16:35um

2:16:37Leaves the digital signs where they are at the major transit hubs and then does not proceed with the additional

2:16:43I think 6.8 million and the commensurate operating costs, right? So this motion

2:16:48Cuts it entirely. There was a projection for 100 signs throughout the city at the hundred busiest stops

2:16:55That would not occur

2:16:57I would say

2:16:58The reason why I'm very comfortable with the motion

2:17:01We're putting 500 million dollars into transit in the next 10 years for the building for

2:17:09electrification for new buses

2:17:11And and that's all fine. That's great. And so here is this tiny place of something that

2:17:19Isn't isn't going to change the level of service

2:17:22Right and that people have an alternate option and if transit wants to come back

2:17:27In a couple of years and say remember those digital signs? Well, they came down in price or whatever

2:17:32They can still do that

2:17:34But this motion stops this project in its entirety there would be digital signage at the major transit hubs

2:17:40So if you left your workplace and then you're you're transferring at walmart

2:17:44There will be signage there or the university or downtown

2:17:47But that not at every

2:17:49You know single bus stop, right because it's not just the signs

2:17:53It's the person who's there also pumping out those messages for those signs and the operating costs are not negligible

2:18:01Thank you. I appreciate the clarity. Thank you. Thank you. Um, I have a question just from councillor, uh, kate and police

2:18:10Thank you. I'd like to make an amendment that we move forward with the top 50

2:18:17stops that transit deems

2:18:20The most financial and accessibility needs

2:18:33Just I'm not I'm just going to put this on pause for a second. Okay. I'm just going to confer with the clerk

2:18:45Yeah, so if you don't if you don't mind councillor, kate and councillor ororak has

2:18:52Um numbers that can correspond exactly to what you're asking

2:18:57So I would actually suggest the wisest thing to do is to either vote up or down on this

2:19:02And then a secondary motion if it fails

2:19:06Then um, we could we could entertain a lesser amount exactly as you're proposing

2:19:12Okay, that sounds good. Okay. Perfect. Thank you

2:19:16Okay, so I'll call the vote on this

2:19:19Uh, councillor orak, we're good. I'm going to call the vote on this. Okay

2:19:25Um, and just before I call the vote

2:19:26I am in support of this because the buses are still going to run the routes are still going to go

2:19:32This is this is a way

2:19:34Unfortunately, I'll use the word unfortunately

2:19:37That it is a it is a really nice to have thing. I totally get it

2:19:41But this isn't actually cutting services of the buses running. It's just

2:19:47It's nice to have in a

2:19:49In an arena right now. We're nice to haves are expensive

2:19:53We need to we need to kind of look at these

2:19:56Unfortunately look at these items

2:19:58Because I think we should try to reduce as much as we can here for the affordability factor

2:20:03So I'll call the vote. Um, all those against raise your hand

2:20:07Claussen downer alt

2:20:11Kate and

2:20:13Koran so that passes

2:20:15Okay, thank you

2:20:17Okay, so councillor orak. I'm just gonna get rid of these other ones that you had as as other backups here

2:20:23Just give me a second

2:20:24Councillor billings. I'm going to put you in the wings here

2:20:28because

2:20:30You had one about reducing mayor and council training

2:20:36I didn't read I can read that out for you if you want

2:20:41Sure, I guess

2:20:43Sure, I don't I don't remember sending that one in but oh, okay

2:20:48Okay, I can I can leave it. What's up to you? You want me to leave it alone? No, you can you can put it in

2:20:54Okay, you can put it in it's all right. It's it's it's a small one. Yep the council amended 2024 to 2027 operating budget by reducing

2:21:03The 2024 49 500 for budget requests 1351 mayor and council training

2:21:09Okay, is there a seconder to do this Gibson?

2:21:14Okay, is there any comments on this? Okay

2:21:19Um, oh, sorry go ahead alt

2:21:22Thanks very much

2:21:24Councillor billings for your motion regrettably or not even regrettably

2:21:28I won't support it because I do believe that training is important. The other problem is is that I see that

2:21:33Uh, what we've done is we've reduced it, but we haven't identified by how much it's being reduced and consequently

2:21:40I think in some senses the motion is incomplete

2:21:45Okay, um

2:21:47I'll okay Gibson. Thank you. So I'll I'll explain why I I'm comfortable with the reduction

2:21:53There are some of us on council that go to fcm go to

2:21:58Ontario municipality

2:22:00Amel, thank you

2:22:03Sure, clearly shows I've never been

2:22:06I'm not part of that club

2:22:08That being said, um when when a councillor does like I couldn't remember former councillor McKinnon wanted to go to

2:22:15both right

2:22:16Um, amo and fcm got at that time and and when when that request came forward

2:22:22They request came to all of council say may I exceed my allowance to go to these other and all of council says sure take some of mine

2:22:28You know some some councillors don't use the whole amount other councillors do so we've never exceeded

2:22:33I don't think we've ever gone close to exceeding that that

2:22:36training budget so

2:22:39Maybe a question to staff. What is the total amount? Is it does this wipe out the does this wipe out the training budget?

2:22:46or is it it was

2:22:48Can I just get an indication of how much is being asked here?

2:22:51Um, so through the mayor this does not that there was a a budget request to increase the training budget this year

2:22:58So this would effectively reduce the the new ask so your your current level of training would stay in

2:23:05Like stay with this with the approval of this motion your current level that you have in 23 would be would stay

2:23:11I think that's great clarity. Thank you. So we've never exceeded the existing budget

2:23:16Um, as far as I can tell so this is simply just not adding

2:23:21I

2:23:22Correct

2:23:23So we all get our $3,500 to do our training every year and that would be uh, that would just be maintained

2:23:28It's not an enhancement of of our ability to see our training. So, uh, may I say terrific motion councillor billings

2:23:34Even if you didn't remember sending it in well done

2:23:39All right, so, uh, I I'll just make a comment on this. Um, I I I'm not going to support this. Okay

2:23:46Conferences are and training is going up yearly

2:23:51The exact reason for wanting to actually do this is so that we don't have to have counselors continue to come back and ask

2:23:57Can you please add an extra $200 like the amount of time to write reports and have us deal with a $200 $300 asks is

2:24:05is becoming

2:24:07Unnecessary the thing if I could just remind us yesterday

2:24:11yesterday

2:24:12We just passed the updated council training

2:24:16Motions to help help us have that account now. Look, there's going to be some people here

2:24:21They're going to listen to this and they're going to be like, oh look at the counselors and the mayor doing it

2:24:24Like I'm just going to talk truth telling to the community here

2:24:29It is imperative that we actually do have the ability to have the training

2:24:34We are better leaders collectively when we have the ability to do these things

2:24:39And may I add that the complexity of changes coming especially from the province where there are now courses

2:24:46training

2:24:48Seminars that are being offered where we have to be then better educated to make better

2:24:53Decisions for our community is becoming more and more commonplace a good organization

2:24:59Invests in their people

2:25:01We do it here with our own hr

2:25:04And that includes us and that might be a position that might feel

2:25:09Awkward for me to say because it's an increase in something

2:25:13To our budget, but as the chair as your mayor

2:25:16I feel very confident in this amount and we should probably still support it

2:25:21And and guess what if what happens of what councillor Gibson and our billings

2:25:28Occurs which will probably more than likely occur

2:25:32Then it becomes a positive variance and a surplus at the end of the year that we can use to apply to other issues

2:25:39Any ways moving forward?

2:25:41And so this is forward thinking in my view

2:25:44And it is a small amount. There's a principle behind it a principle to keep it. There's principle

2:25:50Positions to not and I respect both

2:25:53But I've come to the point over my years of mayor to see that this

2:25:56Issue is actually something that is of value to us as a team and in turn a value to the community

2:26:03I know it's a small amount

2:26:04But i'm talking probably more about this than some of the other things

2:26:06But there is reasoning behind this and I think we should continue to have this supported. Okay councillor work and then i'll call the vote

2:26:15Thanks, mayor guthrie. Just a question to the to the mover or to yourself, mayor guthrie because it's coming out of your

2:26:21It's going to your office budget. Have you considered

2:26:24reducing the amount in half

2:26:26Because those fees to attend the conferences have gone up because we're also expanding it to potentially to an educational component

2:26:33Um, and I would I would support a lower amount because when we go to amoe, that's where we do the advocacy

2:26:39Like that's when we sit down with a minister and say we need these things in our community

2:26:44So we can sit here and say we want to advocate

2:26:46But the rubber hits the road at those conferences

2:26:49Um, so they are an important part of our job and not necessarily sort of a personal benefit

2:26:55And they do bring value to the horseshoe

2:26:57So i'm wondering um

2:26:59If the mover's open to a reduction of half or if we do the same thing

2:27:04Vote up or down and then come back

2:27:07Sure, if you want to move an amendment that that's fine councillor work

2:27:11So initially even though I don't remember submitting it initially what it was the the amount of the increase was for

2:27:18counselors to take courses and nothing to do with you know conferences it was just about taking courses

2:27:24We've never done that before

2:27:26Um counselors have never done that before and had the city pay for it

2:27:30And I still don't think that the city should be paying for that. So and and again

2:27:36Yes, we have always had a positive variance with with this account

2:27:41So I personally didn't see the the need with respect to increasing

2:27:46A budget line item for for counselors when we were coming in at a 10 increase

2:27:53So no issue counselor work if if you want to move an amendment

2:28:01Right, so um, I don't have I don't have the number in front of me because I hadn't planned on moving

2:28:11all right

2:28:12Yeah, and I'm just

2:28:14Okay, I'm gonna move to change the amount 25 000, please

2:28:18Okay, Gibson will second that yeah, hey for for a first year. I mean hey, I'm a compromise guy that might that might work

2:28:27But again, it just means if we have an issue year over year, we're gonna have to bump it up anyways. So

2:28:33That's my position. I would actually support this. That's fine. I'll meet in the middle

2:28:37But alt do you want to say something before I call the vote? Yes. Thank you very much

2:28:40I'm reluctant to support this because uh, mayor guthrie and I did attend a workshop with staff

2:28:46where staff provided a solid rationale for this and

2:28:49I appreciated it and I was wondering if staff could please outline

2:28:53Why the 49 000 as opposed to 25 000? It seemed solid to me when you presented it to the two of us who did attend that

2:29:01uh information set

2:29:06So through the mayor

2:29:09Seeing if my team can help me with the exact dollar amount, but it was um, there was an increase in an allotment

2:29:16For each counselor and that's what made up the total number and so by by halving it

2:29:25Oh, so

2:29:26By halving it it would just you know give each counselor half

2:29:29And so I I'm not clear if if this is an increase

2:29:32I think this is an increase of 4 000 per counselor. So then you would be down to an increase of 2000 per counselor

2:29:42Okay, so just be clear

2:29:44It's still an increase just not at the full amounts 50 of that which I'm saying that's fine

2:29:49Let's for the first I'm easy going 50 percent is fine. But yeah, we might be back here next year to say

2:29:55Something different. So I'll call the vote on the amendment. Okay. Is anyone against the amendment?

2:30:00Okay, no problem. Karan and alt and quasen and galler. So that passes

2:30:06So now it's uh back to the main motion as amended, which is 25 000. Okay

2:30:11So is anyone against that?

2:30:16It's to reduce the increase. So we're still good. Okay. Just galler and quasen and karan and alt

2:30:23Okay, so it still passes. So the reduction is is basically half of that 25 000. Okay. Thanks, uh billings

2:30:31I have another one stay stay with me. Uh counselor billings. Here's another one that you didn't know you you sent in

2:30:39Okay, I laughed at that one. Thanks everyone. Um that council amend the 2024 to 20 27 operating budget by

2:30:46transferring 750 000 of funding

2:30:49From the tax rate contingency reserve to fund the 2024

2:30:54installment of the gulf general hospital point of order your worship

2:31:00I I have another motion. We heard back from the hospital that they were okay to wait a year

2:31:05So I have a motion that we actually

2:31:07Pay it next year. Uh, so there would be no change

2:31:11From reserves or anything. It would just be instead of paying it this year

2:31:16We pay it next year. Uh, and the hospital I I heard was okay with that

2:31:21So if I could just

2:31:23Thank you

2:31:30So, you know what um counselor billings let let me just jump to counselor galler first just to see how this plays out

2:31:37If you don't mind. Sorry. Just give me a second. I'm trying to find your

2:31:40Your motion here or maybe staff have it to put up on the screen for me

2:31:51Oh here. I found it try the back. Sorry. All right. So this one is that council

2:31:56Stopped me if I'm wrong, but the council amended 2024 27 operating budget by reducing the 2024 by 750 000 for the removal

2:32:04of the planned request

2:32:06001 185 gulf general hospital transfer and increasing the 2025 operating budget by

2:32:13Oh, so you are okay for the additional of plan request 001 185

2:32:19gulf general hospital transfer resulting in the final three payments to the hospital in 2025 in

2:32:252026 and in 2027

2:32:28Uh, okay. Is there a seconder for that?

2:32:33And if I may looks like gipson is the seconder if I may speak to uh, yes, please explain this to us

2:32:39So, uh, I asked for for staff to please check in with the hospital. They said that they were okay to receive the money

2:32:46Uh

2:32:47The following year so they were okay with with one year pause on this

2:32:51It accomplishes the same intent that councillor billings wanted that instead of paying that for in 2024

2:32:58We pay for it in 2025

2:33:00because we're looking at a

2:33:03You know 10 percent

2:33:05Budget increase in 2024. I think this is appropriate for us. We still have to pay it

2:33:09But instead of paying it in 24 we're paying it in 25 26 27

2:33:15Thank you

2:33:17Okay questions on on this before I go ahead uh, karan, please

2:33:21Yeah, I wonder if we could get staff. I I did not see that on the budget board. This is new information for me

2:33:27I worry and I I recognize we're all trying to get the budget down. We're all trying to decrease 2024

2:33:34And I really worry that we're going to see a 10

2:33:37percent plus increase in 2025. So we're not uh, I just I'd

2:33:43I'd rather

2:33:45Do it this year 2024 than to kick kick it down the road

2:33:49Um, but if I could get a comment from staff about where this information came from I I have seen no communication from the hospital on this matter

2:33:58So through you mr. Mayor, and I think it is on the budget board

2:34:02but we checked in with uh, uh, mark walton the president and ceo from the hospital and uh, he and he's confirmed with the foundation that they can

2:34:12Uh, they they can live with not having the 750 000 come from council this for 2024

2:34:19but I in that same vein though, it's the you are still fully committed and

2:34:24And yes, it just it appears in the next year. So councillor Caron, you're right that way

2:34:30but we did check in um with from the 22nd to tonight or to today and uh,

2:34:36Mr. Walton said they they can live with it if it's required and they want to do their part to help with this budget too

2:34:43Um, but you are right in your summary is you're adding it into next year's and that percentage is also then going up to accommodate something like this

2:34:52Thank you. And for that reason, I just I won't be supporting it. Um, I I appreciate that live with

2:34:58is not exactly um

2:35:01Commitment that they're okay with it

2:35:04Um, great. Thank you. I think councillor Allt might ask the 1.5 million dollar question

2:35:10In fact, actually that's exactly what I'm asking because I am reluctant to support this

2:35:14Does this then mean that in the next tax year that we are on the hook for 1.5 million?

2:35:20Or are we pushing everything down the road one year?

2:35:28So three mr. Mayor, um, it

2:35:30It depends how you see it and how you might want to direct it not might be an important piece

2:35:34My understanding is the commitment from this council to the to the gulf general hospital is between now and 20 27

2:35:41So if you move this off

2:35:43You know, you haven't got their permission to move it off to 20 28 for the last of the payment

2:35:48You have to accommodate this as they've got expenses. So I I you know, I I can't we didn't ask mr. Walton

2:35:55Can we move it off a year?

2:35:57We said can we defer the payment this year and you then have to your obligation is to make that up

2:36:03Next year or the between now and between 25 and 27

2:36:07and thank you, I appreciate that answer because

2:36:11What we're essentially looking at as you said is we either do it next year or we do it over multiple years

2:36:16So it's not as if we've taken anything out of a multi-year budget. We've just delayed it and consequently I can't support this

2:36:26Okay, is there anything further on questions only?

2:36:29A question to get some please. Thank you. Just just clarification through you mr. Mayor. Did I hear

2:36:36Did I hear that the hospital has plans to spend and build in 20 27?

2:36:42Or this is just the city's commitment to deliver that levy cost to them before that time

2:36:48So through you mr. Mayor to be fair to

2:36:51Mark who is not here and I am not going to speak for them in any way because I don't know what their commitment is

2:36:56He had just said that they can live with if you need to defer it one year. They can live with that

2:37:01I don't know what magic they the discussions they had between

2:37:05Um, they're ceo and president and the foundation but that was the response and no detail past that

2:37:10So I can't give you any comfort on what are they doing other than they've said they can live with the

2:37:16He's as indicated you can live with the deferral

2:37:20okay, so um

2:37:22Respectfully, I think I need a little bit more information on this one as to in terms of the timeline for the hospital

2:37:28What that what their expectations are for because if if we are going to defer it for a year

2:37:32My expectations that we would continue the payment to 20 28

2:37:35If not if we're still on the hook till 20 27 if it's a self-imposed timeline

2:37:39Perhaps we can amend it, but I don't have that information

2:37:42So I won't I won't support this one, but I will support conversations about where the funding comes from next year

2:37:49Which is uh councillor billings

2:37:52Motion okay, and or work and then I just have a quick comment before the vote

2:37:56So margaret, just for clarity. We're still on councillor billings motion correct to fund it through reserves

2:38:02No, no, so it it's

2:38:06Okay, I'm I'm jumping to my comments very quickly here. Did it go on screen? No, I will I will not yes it did

2:38:13I will not be supporting this because councillor billings way is the proper way to do it

2:38:17That's what we've done for the last several years

2:38:19So um it's galler galler's motion is to just defer it this year

2:38:25But then we will have to somehow pay it all

2:38:28In the next few years

2:38:29Whereas councillor billings idea is to do what we've done the last three years

2:38:33Which is to pay for out of out of the contingency reserve

2:38:36Okay, then I won't support the motion because I'm looking at the four-year projection

2:38:40You can clearly see in 20 27

2:38:43The total projected tax levy increase is currently at 6.67 and part of that is that hospital transfer comes off

2:38:49That's the commitment we made to people and so uh, I'm going to stick with councillor billings motion

2:38:56Um anything further on this before I call the vote then

2:38:59Okay, I'll call the vote on councillor Goller's motion to defer anyone

2:39:04Against that one. Okay. Everyone except chew and galler

2:39:12Okay, let's go to councillor billings motion

2:39:15It's okay. We kind of we kind of landed on

2:39:19What what we now know what to how to vote so that council amend the 2024 20 27 operating budget by transferring 750k

2:39:27Of funding from the tax recontinency reserve to fund the 2024 installment to the gulf general hospital

2:39:33Is there a seconder for that one?

2:39:35Okay, gibson

2:39:36Um and a question uh all to again. Yeah, thank you very much question to financial staff

2:39:42Um, I understand that as a consequence of this rather

2:39:47Draconian budget that our reserve that we are using our reserves and that we should be cautious on those

2:39:52Could I have a comment from financial staff?

2:39:58um, so uh through the mayor to councillor Allt um, yeah that that my position really hasn't changed in terms of the caution

2:40:06There is sufficient money in there to to fund the 750

2:40:11um

2:40:13However, I don't have an update for you right now in terms of what level that would put a put the whole reserve funds at over the four years

2:40:19But um, but again, um, I would just continue to caution

2:40:24The use of the reserves too heavily

2:40:26Yeah, thank you very much for that because the caution tells me that we are not in an entirely healthy place with our

2:40:33Our reserves and consequently I can't support this

2:40:36recommendation either

2:40:41Okay, I just have a quick question. Um, I have been

2:40:45Told that we're looking at um

2:40:48I so I wanted to use the

2:40:51Potentials in my intention if you'll recall I said there will be a year-end surplus coming and so

2:40:57technically

2:40:59We are taking money out of the contingency reserve today

2:41:03Because that's the technical aspect of how we would cover this

2:41:06But to terra could you please give your feelings about the fact that there would be?

2:41:12surplus coming

2:41:15Yeah, so to you mr. Mayor at this point in time our tax

2:41:20Supported surplus is estimated to be in the three and a half to four million dollar range for the end of 2023

2:41:27Um, I will say that as part of the projections in your package. We had already factored in two million of that

2:41:33so

2:41:34Just in terms of the excess uh, we're you're in the range of a mill

2:41:391.5 to two

2:41:42That I would be comfortable kind of saying

2:41:44also though just just cautioning that um

2:41:48Through our presentation. We have used those reserves and so

2:41:52We even like with the the excess of the surplus

2:41:57And if all of that went back into the op contingency reserves that we would still not be a target

2:42:03So I just want to say that out loud

2:42:06And but it's really um, you know up to you

2:42:09Great. Thank you

2:42:10Anything further before I call the vote on this

2:42:12No, oh, okay caller

2:42:15Uh, thank you, three worship just to to follow up on what our our treasurer has said in 2027

2:42:21We're forecasting to be 103 million in the whole for all of our reserves

2:42:26So we'll have to take on new debt. I'm really concerned that if we keep on adding and then we're looking 2028

2:42:32277 million

2:42:34In 2029 298 million

2:42:37So we keep on putting money towards from from reserves

2:42:41And we're not helping us. It's going to get very expensive for wealth residents to to afford that

2:42:47You know, we're saying in 2031 we might be close to half a billion

2:42:51In in additional debt by spending all our reserves so I cannot support anything else going

2:42:57To to our reserves

2:43:04Tara did you need to respond to that

2:43:06Because this reserve has nothing to do with a transfer to capital projects. So go ahead

2:43:11Yeah, thanks. Mr. Mayor. I did just want to respond to the comment about at the end of the four years. So

2:43:17Through the companion budget report

2:43:20There are there is direction for staff to continue to work through in certain areas of the next four years on the capital side

2:43:27As well we have held back certain debt capacity as it relates to the dc reserve funds. And so

2:43:34Um, while that is showing the projection

2:43:37I just wanted to state that we're well aware and that there's a number of kind of contingency plans in place and that

2:43:43Staff are going to be continuing to work on some of the significant projects that are driving that

2:43:48So I just didn't want to leave that

2:43:50That comment without without

2:43:53You know responding. Thank you

2:43:55great

2:43:56Okay, thank you. I'll call the vote then as anyone against this

2:44:01Alt Quran and Guller

2:44:04Okay, so that passes. Thank you

2:44:07Just want to okay. Um, I'm just trying to spread the love a little bit here because there's

2:44:24A lot of dollars

2:44:27And a lot of our works

2:44:39What's hey, what's uh, let's let let's go to councillor kate

2:44:43Is that okay councillor kate put you on the spot?

2:44:46This is the amount of up to ten thousand dollars. Can I can I do that one for you right now?

2:44:51Yep, sounds good. Okay. I'll read it out as it comes up

2:44:54That an amount of up to ten thousand dollars be allocated from the tax operating contingency reserve to fund further investigation

2:45:01of resources required and costs associated with the creation

2:45:04Of a financial needs based application program for waived penalties and the suspension

2:45:11Of interest on unpaid amounts of property taxes to reduce burdens on low-income homeowners

2:45:17during the 2024 to 27 multi-year budget cycle

2:45:20And a report back to council prior to the end of q2 of 2024

2:45:25So is there a seconder for that one? So alt will second that one

2:45:30And to you uh, uh councillor kate and did you want to just give a little preamble as to the why?

2:45:36Yes, please um through you so if

2:45:40Someone can't pay a fine

2:45:42Someone can't pay their income taxes

2:45:45Or their property taxes a fine isn't going to change that

2:45:47And in our case when we're in a year where we've got such a high increase

2:45:52We're putting low-income owners at risk of not being able to pay

2:45:58And I know from personal experience that when you can't pay a bill having a fine attached to it or a penalty or interest

2:46:04Doesn't make you be able to pay it faster

2:46:07As we saw yesterday if people lose their homes this still costs the city

2:46:12So I see no problem with a small amount of administration to identify

2:46:17Those who are at most need and give them a small amount of relief

2:46:22And we've already got staff who are working with folks who can't pay their bill

2:46:26to work on

2:46:29Monthly and and other types of payment programs

2:46:31This would make them more able to pay those on time because they wouldn't have the additional

2:46:37penalties attached

2:46:42Thank you. Is there any follow-up questions on this one alt, please?

2:46:46Thank you very much councillor kate and for putting this motion on the floor

2:46:50Because it is an exploratory motion. I think it's very important

2:46:53One thing that we have been very good at over the last four or five years has been addressing the issue of homelessness

2:46:59And to a lesser extent under housing

2:47:01But we have been investigating those my concern in supporting this motion is that we do not recognize

2:47:08That the potential impact of not just taxes but rising interest rates and the fact that

2:47:14Wages are relatively stagnant for for many many people

2:47:17We could actually end up creating

2:47:20More of a problem for people than they currently have in this economic climate and consequently, I think investigating

2:47:27what

2:47:28Councillor Caton wishes is the appropriate way to go

2:47:32Okay, thank you. I just have one quick question

2:47:35Why the ten thousand dollars? I just want to make sure that that's an appropriate amount

2:47:39I'm sure I'm sure you did not pick it out of the pick it out of the air that you worked with staff

2:47:43So could staff just explain why

2:47:46Ten thousand dollars

2:47:48So to you mr. Mayor, we will have to

2:47:53Go external for a little bit of consulting help. And so that is what what that money is for

2:47:58Okay, and can I just ask a follow-up there?

2:48:00I'm sure like the consultant help and and others would do a best practices scan of others and what other communities are doing

2:48:07Are any staff aware of any type of program like this off the top of their head where a program like this exists already?

2:48:17um, I'm just uh

2:48:20I'm not sure myself. Um, I'd have to I'd have to get back to you. That's fine. Well, I that's what this motion is really all about

2:48:26So that's fine. Okay, billings. Did you have something to say and then or work and then I'll call the vote

2:48:32Um, you asked my first question. Mr. Mayor. Um, any other municipalities doing this? We talked about something like this

2:48:40Uh, with respect to when we were going through covet for for health relief. I don't think

2:48:45I I guess what I'm looking for is finance staff. Are you supportive of this motion is what I'm looking for?

2:48:51Are you or are you not because in the past?

2:48:55I didn't I didn't think we had support

2:48:59Like even through coven people are losing their jobs

2:49:03and going on third

2:49:06so, uh, to the mayor, um, I do have now your answer is that we are not aware of any other municipalities that have this program

2:49:13So just to respond to your first question

2:49:17to respond to uh, counselor billings

2:49:19Um, we did end up through covet counsel did pass a program

2:49:24through covet to

2:49:26relieve interest in penalties

2:49:29um

2:49:30so so really, uh

2:49:33In terms of best billing and and collection practices

2:49:37We do feel and it's pretty standard in the industry that there would be

2:49:41penalties for overdue

2:49:44taxes, but uh, we

2:49:47We have no concern with the motion in terms of investigating it and bringing it back if that is the will of counsel

2:49:54So was it through you your worship? So was it actually used by constituents through covet?

2:50:00You waiving interest in penalties because I thought there was a report that came to council where finance

2:50:07stated that it is seemingly

2:50:10really like

2:50:13It was a very very very low number that people had an issue with respect to paying their taxes

2:50:21Um to counselor billings that is still true. Um, I after this meeting I can send you the the annual report on that

2:50:28We we as a city have, um

2:50:31uh

2:50:32Low arrears in taxes. Um, and so that um, that is it that is a true fact. We did though through covet

2:50:40Um, implement that program for a few months. I believe

2:50:45Okay, just a few months. Okay

2:50:47Thank you, russia

2:50:49And or work

2:50:51Thank you, maga three just for clarity the motion

2:50:54Is just to go back and come back with the proposal and that proposal would involve definitions of

2:50:59What is a low income household that type of things that correct?

2:51:04Um through through the mayor. Yes, that is correct

2:51:06We'll be working with others within the city and and looking at what that type of program would look like. Yes

2:51:12Okay, it's including operating costs and whether they offset one another all of that correct. Okay

2:51:18Um, I will support the motion mayor. Guthrie. I think it's

2:51:21Timely, I think when impact finally does their reassessments

2:51:26It won't necessarily increase taxes, but there's a potential for a redistribution across the city of the impacts on on households

2:51:33Some of which haven't had their their assessment

2:51:37Changed since 2016 at least

2:51:41And so I think that's timely. I think there might be some impact, but then we're going to have to know

2:51:45What is the foregone revenue to the city?

2:51:47In that case, thanks

2:51:51Great. Thank you. So I'll call the vote just a quick comment for me. I actually I think this is a great idea

2:51:57Um

2:51:58Yeah, I mean why not look right and even if we are the first like if the report comes back

2:52:03It makes sense to do it has to be reasons to do it even if we are a leader in this then so be it

2:52:08I think that's kind it's worthwhile looking

2:52:11So thank you councillor kate for bringing it forward. I'll call the vote as anyone against

2:52:17Okay, that's unanimous. Thanks councillor kate. Okay. Just give me a second

2:52:22I'm looking at the fact that I'll just say out loud. We're about 25 minutes away from a break

2:52:28So I'm going to try to pick some ones that are like bank shots, you know some stuff that we can do

2:52:32I think I think quickly enough. So just give me a second. Okay. Well, why don't we why don't we stick with you councillor kate?

2:53:00And I see this other one that's there. This actually doesn't have any monetary impacts

2:53:05It's just a direction in regards to it's the one about um

2:53:10Like a low-income tax

2:53:12To program is that smaller to what you just did? I just replaced it because after talking to staff. I had replaced that one

2:53:23I had different people talking to me. Just one second councillor kate

2:53:57Okay, I've taken a risk on this one

2:54:02but I think I don't know in my view it's a

2:54:06Kind of an up or down one for me, but we'll see we'll see what happens

2:54:09Councillor work. I'm picking I'm picking on you

2:54:13uh, the council amend gloves 2024

2:54:16to 2027 operating budget by reducing the 2024

2:54:20By 400 000 for the transfer to the affordable housing reserve number 119

2:54:27Moved by you. Do I have a seconder?

2:54:30uh, Richardson

2:54:32Okay, any

2:54:34Let me go to you for preamble first. Go ahead. Sure. So when the affordable housing reserve was established

2:54:41It was often to help organizations with the project offset the cost of their development charges

2:54:46since then

2:54:48Bill 23 and it was done sort of looking at well

2:54:52The federal government should be stepping in or the province should be stepping in we wanted a nestig

2:54:57So after the implementation of bill 23 staff did recommend eliminating transfers to the affordable housing reserve in their entirety

2:55:04Because of the significant contribution of the city now covering development charges on affordable units

2:55:10To a scale that is way larger than what we were funding through the affordable housing reserve

2:55:17So, uh, we're also in this budget substantially increasing the transfer to the county for shelters and supportive housing

2:55:24I'm I'm asking to keep a smaller amount in the affordable housing reserve

2:55:28To allow us to still have some seed money to help programs leverage other dollars

2:55:34and

2:55:35If there were a project that came to council we could still look at surplus or operating

2:55:40Reserves to to help fund that project. So we would still have some flexibility in year if there were projects

2:55:48And so, uh, that's why I'd be comfortable because we still have that flexibility

2:55:51So we're paying to support affordable housing through waiving development charges

2:55:56We still keep a little bit of seed money in the affordable housing transfer

2:56:00And if there were a project we would have other levers and other sources that we could leverage

2:56:08Okay, is there any questions on this? Um, I have billings for a question. I have a caller for a comment

2:56:15So through you mr. Mayor to um, probably to our c a i mean i'm supportive of this but from a staff's perspective

2:56:22Are you supportive meaning?

2:56:24Um, are you aware of any programming that's been announced or anyone knocking on our door with respect to this reserve?

2:56:33Uh, through you mr. Mayor, we're not aware of any projects. We haven't been approached for any projects. So I'm very supportive of this motion

2:56:42Thank you Scott

2:56:43Okay, and the caller

2:56:47Through your worship to my fellow councillors

2:56:49We are increasing the police services budget from 56 million in 2023 to 79 million in 20 27

2:56:5623 million uh an additional resources because

2:56:59They are having more and more calls

2:57:02related to poverty issues mental health addictions

2:57:06providing

2:57:07Social housing is one of the the main ways that we can provide

2:57:12Prevention to this. This is a small budget line half a million per year

2:57:18Going to to support and to provide seed funding for local organizations

2:57:23It's very expensive to build housing

2:57:25And there is little support from other levels of government that we can rely on without local matching

2:57:32So I think we need to at least maintain the 500 000 in there so that there is something that can be leveraged

2:57:40Bringing it down to 100 000

2:57:42It means that there will be no asks from local organizations local developers because there is nothing you can build

2:57:48With with such a small amount of money

2:57:54Okay, wow, I guess your comments have created more comments to come. So I'll go down our alt Gibson and then me

2:58:02just

2:58:04Sort of agreeing with councillor Goller

2:58:06But in addition like in the past we have relied upon that one time funding coming from contingencies

2:58:12But that's not going to be a strategy going forward if projects come forward

2:58:17And while there may not be anything on the horizon in the next six months something can come up

2:58:22We don't know what applications are in the works and I think we need to keep this money in there

2:58:27We've identified housing as a number one one of the number one issues in this community

2:58:32And I do think that we should keep that in there for now

2:58:36Thank you alt

2:58:38Thank you very much mayor guthrie

2:58:40Echoing the comments of councillor downer

2:58:44I think that what we're doing is

2:58:46Is dangerously bad optics if we approve this

2:58:50As much as I am very reluctant to assume responsibility for what I consider to be a provincial or a federal

2:58:56Responsibility as it currently exists. I think that we send the message that affordable housing in wealth does not matter that much by doing this

2:59:06Rather than reducing the money what I think we need to do is very very

2:59:10Carefully scrutinize any requests that come to us and determine whether in fact they are worthwhile in any particular

2:59:18Budget year or whether we need to actually build that fund up so that we can do something of merit that is perhaps larger

2:59:26I think that has been a challenge in the past and I'd like to get out of that

2:59:29I don't think that we are the housing provider that

2:59:33Perhaps some people imagine that we are but nonetheless

2:59:36Uh, the the point raised about development charges is quite valid. We do that. We have opened up the city to uh

2:59:43Multi residential units on properties, but at the same time

2:59:49As councillor Goller says 500 000 dollars is is uh is not much

2:59:54And I was not going to increase this budget because I think that too is going the wrong way

2:59:59But this is clearly an issue of optics and Christmas is coming. I don't want to see us being the Grinch

3:00:08Point of privilege

3:00:09America three

3:00:12So I take exception to the characterization

3:00:16Because we never had this reserve before then it was 300 000 then it was 500 000

3:00:23We have in the last year drawn down this reserve

3:00:26twice

3:00:27For the home for good campaign. We have invested substantially in affordable housing projects in the city at grace gardens at

3:00:35shelledale

3:00:37and other projects, Wyndham house st. Joes

3:00:41and uh, so I take exception to that and I would

3:00:44Prefer that we carry on today without mischaracterizing one another and one another's intentions

3:00:52Uh point privilege I I will uh apologize. It was not you to whom I was pointing

3:00:57it was we collectively as a group and uh, I'm I'm quite prepared to wear the hat if uh, if in fact

3:01:05We were wearing it, but definitely nothing against what you're suggesting. I respect what you're doing. I just have to agree to disagree

3:01:13And of course we can all agree to disagree in ways that won't make either of us have to ask for a point of order a point of privilege

3:01:21So maybe we should act accordingly

3:01:23Councillor Gibson. Okay. Thank you through mr. Mayor. So yeah, just to reiterate

3:01:27It's never personal and we should we're trying to abide by those rules. So um

3:01:32I'm gonna put a different spin on this because I while I think that the optics

3:01:37If looked at a little bit less responsibly could be bad, but in actual fact

3:01:42This is just a logical reaction from the city in terms of bill 23. So um when we have

3:01:49$500,000 into a reserve fund that we are then picking winners and losers in terms of pro projects

3:01:55So an affordable housing group would come forward and say we would really like help with this

3:01:59We have sort of an rfp and we select one that we like the best

3:02:02That's government doing kind of like hand-to-mouth type of services to local

3:02:08Individual groups, but when you have the government literally flatten the floor on development charges for affordable housing

3:02:14That guarantees reduced

3:02:17Um startup costs for all developments that are affordable

3:02:21It puts a little bit more burden on the taxpayer in general

3:02:24But in terms of pre-bold not having to come to the local municipality and saying hey

3:02:28Could we use a hundred thousand dollars worth of help to get this 25 unit thing off the ground?

3:02:32No, you now are guaranteed that reduction in your costs through the government bill 23

3:02:38And the city no longer has to serve in that role

3:02:41I'd never like it when governments have to pick winners and losers

3:02:43I would rather the the costs be reduced across the board. So

3:02:48If I can and i'm not surprised the staff didn't remove this

3:02:51But I would have thought this was a be a logical reduction in our budget simply because the government has taken these costs away

3:02:58Um in terms of us having to do the work

3:03:01We're being charged with paying for most of it through taxes

3:03:04But we don't need special reserves now to fund it when these projects are already had their costs

3:03:09massively reduced and subsidized through through taxpayers

3:03:12So the fact that we have a reserve is great

3:03:14But I actually think that this is a logical reaction to bill 23 from municipalities to say listen everyone's everyone's got lower opportunities

3:03:21For on costs now. So just bring your project forward. You don't need to come to us and ask for help

3:03:24You've got the help from the government from the provincial decisions. So I'm not looking at it as taking away

3:03:30I'm looking at it just a natural balancing of our budget to the fact that the government has now said we have to fund these things

3:03:36And we don't need a special reserve to pick winners and losers from so that's why I'll be supporting the reduction

3:03:41I hope that's clear and not uh and to serve those sort of negative optics. I hope that's a different rationale. Thank you

3:03:49Okay, thank you

3:03:50All right, here's my comments. I am going to support this because of all the reasons that have been said ditto

3:03:56and here's the thing if

3:03:59I'll give someone a million dollars

3:04:01When the plan comes forward

3:04:03When the plan comes forward if it's june if it's july if it's march if it's august if it's september

3:04:08And there's a worthwhile plan for actually giving something

3:04:12Then our staff and us will figure out how to support that

3:04:15But to just put today money in an account with no plan attached to it at all and no project attached to it at all

3:04:23I don't think that that's wise. Um again, we're giving like over four million dollars more to the county in regards to housing issues

3:04:30We have bill 23

3:04:33And hey, I'll give someone two million dollars if they if they come here next year with a viable project

3:04:38Not a problem

3:04:39But to just put money especially now with affordability issues across the city in there with no project and no plan attached to it

3:04:47It's not a no because we don't want to support affordable housing. It's just a not now

3:04:53Until we know what the project is. That's the way I view it. Okay, so I'll call the vote those against the reduction of 400k

3:05:00so clausen and galler and downer

3:05:04and alts and karan

3:05:07and

3:05:08Katen so that passes seven six

3:05:11Okay, and that takes us to 11 56

3:05:15Lunchtime, okay, so who wants to do move a motion for lunch? Just kidding

3:05:20Ken puts up a councillor choose again. My first motion of the day lunch

3:05:25Um, okay, so uh, we are going to have a half an hour break. Okay

3:05:29We'll come back here for 12 30 and and just counsel just so you know, we've moved really faster than I thought

3:05:35Honestly, like it's there's there's just a few more

3:05:38There's honestly just a few more things here

3:05:40And then the rest is like non monetary impacts either up or down and direction. So like we're we're doing really well

3:05:48so have a good lunch and

3:05:51And we'll see you back here in a half an hour

3:38:28Okay, everyone. This is your 32nd warning

3:39:21Okay, everyone. I'm going to call the meeting to order. That means the cao has to go back to his chair

3:39:27All right, uh, everyone's probably wondering we've we do this uh, usually after our our lunch break and the question is where are we at

3:39:42So I believe we're around at 8.5. Tara, would you like to

3:39:47Give us the real number? Oh, it's going to come up on the screen

3:39:54Okay

3:39:57Yeah 8.5 too. Okay. Okay. We see some changes though into the following years

3:40:05Okay

3:40:08And we'll have to tackle those years as they come to us

3:40:11My gut three. Yep. Can I just ask a question about this number? Sure

3:40:16So I'm just looking at the levy type. Oh, no, it was going to be 6.67

3:40:24Tax lives that is that tax levy city or is tax levy increase? This is overall

3:40:31Not just the city

3:40:33So that's going up into 2027, right?

3:40:37Because it was 6.67 who they're going up

3:40:41Across the board, right? Other than 2024. They're all going up in the forecast

3:40:46Okay, uh

3:40:49Okay, 2026 is down. Yeah, okay. Thanks. Yeah

3:40:53I think some of the points made to date at this time so far is about to try to really help right now

3:40:58And then we have some runway to help with the following years but to help right now especially so

3:41:04Okay

3:41:06So there's only two like themes of motions I have left

3:41:10One is bicentennial and one is about route reviews and then after that

3:41:14It's all the kind of companion motions that come about every

3:41:18Every budget which are more administrative in nature and non impacting. So we're doing really well. So let's get the

3:41:25What's let's let's uh tackle

3:41:28The bicentennial one this is councillor Goller and I'm just going to ask that the clerks leave the

3:41:34motion up on the screen as I read every motion

3:41:38Uh, so there's some uh time for people to digest that and then right when I'm getting ready to call the vote

3:41:44If we could also have it just come back up one more time before I call the vote. Okay. I'm seeing heads nod from the clerks

3:41:49So, thank you. So councillor Goller. This is that council amend the 2024 to 2027 operating budget

3:41:56By reducing 2025 by

3:41:5988,020 reducing 2026 by 100,000

3:42:04163,150 and reducing 2027 by 65,023

3:42:10From the plan request of 001166

3:42:14Guelph bicentennial enhancement events leaving a total combined project budget of

3:42:20$250,000 over the three years funded from the tax operating contingency reserve

3:42:26Do I have a seconder for that?

3:42:29Okay, no, oh, okay councillor gibson

3:42:33All right preamble go for it. Thank you your worship

3:42:37We are focusing on reducing the the impact to our residents

3:42:42We just said that we cannot give more money to support the building of social housing

3:42:46So things are really tight and at the same time we're planning to throw a celebration

3:42:50That's going to cost about a million dollars to to wealth residents for our bicentennial

3:42:55I think we can have a really good celebration for for a fraction of the cost to still celebrate our 200 year anniversary

3:43:02It feels out of touch on a year when we're cutting so much to then go ahead and have

3:43:09This amount of money spent on

3:43:12on on celebrations

3:43:15Yeah, thank you worship

3:43:17Go to councillor Caron and then gibson

3:43:20Uh, just let me quickly ask questions or comments only

3:43:25Uh, does anyone have any let me ask this one. Does anyone have any

3:43:29Did I just hear a point of order? We had just a point of order. Is that you?

3:43:32Yeah, councillor Goller is asserting that we just said we can't afford to fund affordable housing

3:43:37It's not accurate. What we said is we're supporting it in a different way

3:43:41We're reducing the transfer and if there was a proposal that we could do it with other funding

3:43:45It would be taken under consideration. So I just want to clarify

3:43:49The statement, uh, I think that statement was

3:43:53problematic

3:43:54Okay. Yeah, I think we should just move on. Um, what that we don't do, uh, you know

3:44:00Pitting pitting things against pitting one issue against another isn't going to get us anywhere as a team. Okay, so let's let's maybe stop with the

3:44:09Comparisons as we move forward here

3:44:11Individual decisions on individual items once the vote is done. It's done

3:44:15Right. That's what we have to make sure we remember. Let's not try to reach back and look in the rearview mirror and stuff

3:44:20Okay, so councillor Goller you're with me on that

3:44:25On that statement. Uh, yes, you worship. Okay. So questions

3:44:30On this on this item

3:44:32At all no questions. Okay. I have comments

3:44:36Karan, uh, thank you, mr. Mayor and and, um, although again, I I respect the intent. I think it is, um,

3:44:43It's way too early to be making a cut of 700 000 dollars

3:44:47This money is intended to leverage all the other things that are going to be happening in the community

3:44:53It is for granting to other organizations. This will be a volunteer driven, uh, event

3:45:00In addition, it is it is not even comparable to

3:45:04You know, the city spent on the 120 175th and I don't want to characterize

3:45:09Bicentennial funds as merely a celebration as if it's just a party in a parade

3:45:14There's a lot more that is going to happen during the bicentennial year

3:45:19There will be some, you know, could potentially be

3:45:23Some facilities were plaques wayfinding. There's a lot of things that are still yet undetermined again

3:45:30Leveraged with community investment business investment. I think it's premature to be cutting it by

3:45:37From from 905 by 700 000 to to 250

3:45:41Um, there's still a lot of unknowns. We've gone out with a have your say

3:45:45And we have not seen the results of that report of what the community

3:45:50Would like us to do for our bicentennial and we don't have a way of costing that unless we keep it in the budget

3:45:57in addition

3:45:58The bicentennial comes with a lot of involvement from museums

3:46:03community organizations

3:46:05And it is an opportunity our only opportunity a once in a lifetime opportunity

3:46:11For us to do some real healing and reconciliation work with our indigenous community to retell our naming story

3:46:18To talk about our prehistory without the funds in the budget

3:46:23We're saying that those things don't matter. I see this money as city building money

3:46:27And we have to leave room for for civic

3:46:32positive

3:46:33projects

3:46:35Okay, thank you. Is there any other comments on this before I call the vote?

3:46:39All to then Gibson. Thank you very much. Mary Guthrie. It's really a question

3:46:44To staff with a caveat that

3:46:47The constituent that matters the most to me my wife thinks we should cut it

3:46:51But i'm not inclined at this point and I just want to hear from staff on the impact

3:46:56Should we cut it and is their capacity at a later date to revise that as per council crowns concerns about

3:47:05Narrowing the budget so much that we

3:47:08We don't permit those things that are necessary to come into play

3:47:13Okay, and

3:47:16So who wants to answer that so calling go through the mayor to council all um

3:47:20I don't know if miss evans wants to come down and provide any specifics on what the reduction

3:47:25Would would do we would need to come back to bring that back to council for your consideration

3:47:32Um, I do want to make the note just to make sure that it is understood that this is being funded from reserve because it is one time

3:47:38And so just because that hasn't been stated yet and so just in terms of the impact on the tax rate

3:47:44This this motion doesn't impact the tax rate because it is being fully funded

3:47:50From reserves because it is one time so

3:47:53Miss evans has I've talked long enough. Um, so I will let her jump in and talk a bit more about the impact

3:48:00Thank you. Uh, and through you mr. Mayor to the counselor

3:48:03Certainly less amount of funding does apply a risk in the amount that we can or can't do based on what we think we want to do

3:48:09We have heard had a little bit of feedback from have your say and from active participants in the community already

3:48:16And their ask far exceeds even what is presented in the budget at the moment

3:48:19We're looking for a gulf for gulf based approach and do need that further engagement and further involvement

3:48:26um, this level of funding over two and a half years

3:48:29Gives us a limited sort of part-time staff support

3:48:33Grant funding and a little bit of funding to support some collaboration of promotions. It doesn't give us any events any celebrations

3:48:41The museum will continue with the storytelling certainly as councillor Caron has acknowledged

3:48:47Thank you very much. So year over year. We're really looking at

3:48:51About 400 000 a year. Is that correct?

3:48:55Through the mayor to the councillor no, this is proposed right now is 250 000 for three years because it's from its tax

3:49:02Uh, reserved fund or sorry from the reserve funding. Um, so it's a total combined

3:49:08250 000 not accumulative. This is already the stacked number if you will. Thank you very much

3:49:15Gipson and then I'll have some comments. Thank you. Uh, yeah question if you don't mind

3:49:19That's you mr. Mayor. So I I agree with councillor

3:49:23Guller that it's okay to look at this one and and just have a critical

3:49:27Dive on it and just ask some questions. So, um

3:49:30When would staff have a better idea of sort of a scoped

3:49:35piece of work for the bicentennial?

3:49:37I know that we're starting to build a bit of an envelope here of money

3:49:40But when does staff have a plan to sort of come back with a scoped piece of work?

3:49:45uh through the mayor to council um

3:49:48In not to jump ahead of the chair, um, but uh, councillor Caron has suggested a motion to

3:49:56activate a community working group

3:49:59And uh, we have committed to coming back

3:50:02with uh, sort of timelines terms of reference and a bigger sort of higher level understanding

3:50:07But certainly more detail than you have right now. Um by the end of q1 of 2024 so early into 2024

3:50:13We would have much more robust information for you

3:50:17Okay, um, so I guess my next question and maybe it's not a question. I think that's great. Thank you my comment is

3:50:23Um, sounds like this money is in the reserve

3:50:26And is only to be transferred out when needed

3:50:28So I I don't have an issue just leaving it in the reserve

3:50:32Um, I think that we can you know, it's an it's an envelope that I think staff can come back with a revised piece of work

3:50:37And a revised cost when that time is ready

3:50:40I won't we have a firm understanding of what it's going to cost and I think for the meantime

3:50:44I think it can stay in the reserve. So I'll support the I'll support the motion for now

3:50:49Knowing that there's going to be other updates and reports from staff

3:50:53Speaking about what the final amount will be

3:50:55Knowing all the while knowing that we can pull it from the reserve when need be uh to fund it

3:51:00So I think that's I think it sends a good message to thanks

3:51:05So our work with a question, uh, thanks merga through through you to staff

3:51:10If the funds are in reserve though

3:51:13And they are required

3:51:16Do you need a motion of council to then pull them out and reactivate them? And is that just sort of administratively?

3:51:23cumbersome

3:51:25uh through the mayor to the counselor certainly

3:51:28staff have presented their best foot forward in a four-year multi-year budget and which 2027 is in our last year

3:51:34So this is our proposal for that

3:51:36um, we would administratively need to come back and

3:51:40Have a motion for additional funding should it be reduced now or increased or asked or

3:51:46We wouldn't be able to just take it from reserve on our own unless you approve this budget request. Okay

3:51:53Thank you. My comment is I think this uh cut is

3:51:56Too aggressive for me

3:51:58But I like the direction and and I like knowing that the reserve is there if uh if you need a supplement. Thanks

3:52:05Okay, thank you

3:52:07I'll I'll just call the vote then

3:52:11All those against uh this cut, please raise your hand

3:52:16So, uh chu

3:52:18busitil

3:52:20karan alt richardson

3:52:22guthrie

3:52:24Downer claustin and orork. So that fails

3:52:28And katyn and billings so that fails. Sorry about that guys

3:52:34um

3:52:35Okay, let me just move over to there is a follow-up motion in regards to this a counselor galler and is going to have that come up

3:52:43Uh, the clerks can put that up on the screen. Uh, it is it is

3:52:48It's basically the same

3:52:50um

3:52:51with a

3:52:52it's

3:52:53now instead of um

3:52:55The 250,000 it's 450,000

3:52:59Do you want to just quickly? I mean I've explained it, but if you want to take the mic through through your worship

3:53:05So so these numbers were were supported by by the staff team. Thank you for that

3:53:10So it does the end result is that it reduces the envelope from 905

3:53:15905,000 to

3:53:17450,000 in total over the three years

3:53:21Um same same concerns about about the amount of money we're spending on this. Uh, and this is a way to to reduce that amount

3:53:29Okay, are there any questions uh questions. Yeah, go for it

3:53:34Oh, yes, sorry seconded by counselor gibson. Thank you

3:53:36Um, good thing. I didn't look at your hand and use you as a secondary

3:53:42But you have a question go ahead counselor. Yeah, this again. This is less than 50 percent of of the allocated amount

3:53:48Which has already been significantly reduced

3:53:51During the budget preparation process. I heard um counselor galler say that staff support this and I just want to

3:53:59clarify that staff are supportive or if they have the same concerns

3:54:04About the previous failed motion your worship if I may

3:54:07No, let's just let let's just let staff answer the question and and then we can go back to you

3:54:12So through the merit accounts or chrono staff don't support this

3:54:15Staff provided the numbers to help with the calculations, but staff still are of the position that the original budget ask is appropriate

3:54:23Okay, thank you and to downer with a question

3:54:26So I guess I I don't support it. I just want to go back to like this isn't just about

3:54:31It's a celebration. Yes, but there's a lot tied to it around

3:54:35um

3:54:36For our community but also as counsel caron has mentioned about reconciliation, but I also think we have to see this as an economic

3:54:45A development investment in our community

3:54:48There's a lot of tourism that gets derived from communities celebrating their

3:54:52Their anniversaries and a lot of things happen in the community and we've seen that through a number of events

3:54:57We hold, you know, even

3:54:59Even doors open thousands of people come to guelph for that guelph is has got a great platform in the downtown and it

3:55:07It it leverages community investment as well in so many ways businesses and nonprofits

3:55:14so I think I think we need to um

3:55:17To do our part of that commitment in helping the community celebrate and

3:55:23Do all those things that are important around this

3:55:25okay

3:55:27Any comments then on this before I call the vote? Okay, I'll call the vote all those against please raise your hand

3:55:33okay, busatil and uh

3:55:37Caron and alt and myself that would be guthrie and downer and uh

3:55:43clausen

3:55:44and

3:55:45Caetan so that's seven so that fails as well. So the budget remains intact. Okay

3:55:50Okay, thank you counsel Guller

3:55:52Thank you counsel. We'll keep moving. This is the last

3:55:55This is the last one folks

3:55:59There's some other motions after this that are

3:56:02More administrative in nature, but this is the last one counsel arourk. It looks like I'm back to you

3:56:07so

3:56:11I've actually got I've got a couple in front of me here that just have like different amounts on it

3:56:18Counselor arourk, which one did you want to is it this one here on the screen?

3:56:22Sorry, there's one that I got this morning. I just need to check that it's yeah, there's a lot of email

3:56:30It's okay. It's on the screen right now

3:56:32Okay

3:56:33Is that is that okay that one?

3:56:37Because there's like two here that are similar, but with different numbers. Let me just check. Yeah, I just didn't know which one you wanted to do first

3:56:44The so the first amount should be 134,800. Okay. It's up there. Okay. All right

3:56:50Here I go. Take a breath that council amend the gloves 2024 to 2027 multi-year budget by a reducing the 2024 operating impact for tc

3:56:590079 root review year 3 isip

3:57:03Guelph 01

3:57:05replaced

3:57:07TC 0064010 by 134,800

3:57:11reducing the 2024 capital budget project TC 0064011 root review year

3:57:184 by

3:57:20137,000 and reducing the 2025 operating impact by

3:57:24280,300

3:57:26reducing the 2025 capital budget for project

3:57:29TC 0064012 root review year 5 by 2,810,000 and reducing the 2026 operating impact by

3:57:38206,400

3:57:40and reducing the 2026 capital budget for

3:57:43Project TC 006 413 root review year 6 by 2,866,000 and reducing the 2027 operating impact by

3:57:53excuse me 824,200

3:57:56and finally reducing the 2027 capital budget for project TC 006 4 number 14 root review year

3:58:03root review year 7 by 2,924,000 and reducing the 2028 operating impact by 1,208,800

3:58:14now when i watch you won't even have a seconder and i just did all that

3:58:18is there a seconder okay councillor Goller

3:58:20okay

3:58:22preamble to you councillor oror yes mayor Guthrie so i don't enjoy doing this right

3:58:28a couple years ago when the transit review came everybody was excited their impacts here in my ward

3:58:35we still you know we're at least 10 years out of getting a bus that's going to go to victoria and claire

3:58:41the fact of the matter is though

3:58:43that the

3:58:44speed at which we are trying to expand

3:58:46and electrify transit

3:58:48is has a significant impact on this budget

3:58:52so in terms of

3:58:54the operating cost

3:58:56in our package

3:58:57table 24 said operating impacts from 2024 to 2027

3:59:02on transit

3:59:04it's 9.5 million dollars

3:59:06and that is a full 65 percent of the entire operating impact for all the expansions

3:59:11so

3:59:13there's a there's a problem with how we are waiting

3:59:16the speed at which we are moving forward on this so i asked

3:59:20transit and finance take a look at what

3:59:22spreading out the transit expansion the future ready action plan would look like expanded over 15 to 17 years

3:59:29rather than 13

3:59:31it is not a reduction in existing service

3:59:35it does slow down the rate at which we can expand

3:59:39so

3:59:41it does mean

3:59:43route deferrals

3:59:44and transit staff were kind enough to provide that information i'm happy to be transparent i just think we need to have this conversation

3:59:51okay

3:59:52so it would mean 37 route deferrals in comparison to the 20 deferrals in the currently tabled budget

3:59:58and they range from an expansion of service hours

4:00:01increasing frequency and new routes

4:00:03the largest deferral items are sunday on demand service hours the am and pm time period

4:00:09speed veil cross town that supports conastoga college edinburgh cross town and stone ron cross town

4:00:15it means they are later not that they are never

4:00:18the impact of these deferrals are not meeting customer expectations not meeting ridership and mode chair targets potentially established

4:00:25in the transportation master plan

4:00:27and not adhering to council approved service standards so i want to be very transparent i shared all this with everybody ahead of time

4:00:34there is icip funding attached to these

4:00:38for any scenarios where the total amount of icip funding is being reduced or where the timelines are extended beyond the original estimates in the application

4:00:46we will need to submit a modification request to icip for approval

4:00:50and we need to keep in mind that those timelines require that the projects be completed by 2033

4:00:55so this would all still happen by 2033

4:00:59as you know the buses the electric buses are about a million dollars apiece

4:01:03they are funded through a combination of icip grants development charges and funding from the 100 re fund

4:01:10with those reductions proposed over four years

4:01:13icip funding of five million will require a request to modify the timeline or reallocate to another project

4:01:20and 1.5 million of 100 re reserve funding will be deferred

4:01:24however that reserve forecast which we saw in our our budget workshop which is

4:01:30concerning for 100 re

4:01:34if the motion is approved the 100 re reserve fund would have a negative forecast balance of 2.6 million by 2027

4:01:41and without the motion that negative balance is 4.1 million by 2027

4:01:46so it's a lot of numbers

4:01:48i'm being really transparent about what the impacts are

4:01:51there is um the upside is financial

4:01:54the downside is we will do these things over a longer period of time

4:02:01and also does not reduce any existing transit

4:02:06so um it slows things down it doesn't stop

4:02:09expansion

4:02:11and it allows us to proceed in a way that is somewhat more affordable for the city

4:02:16okay

4:02:18thank you

4:02:19are there any questions that have not already been answered by

4:02:24councillor roark

4:02:25because she just outlined all of the risks so is there anything further to that that needs to be stated before i call the vote

4:02:32councillor Allt and thank you very much uh through you to uh staff mr. jiru and transit staff

4:02:39um

4:02:41i'm i'm i'm i'm

4:02:43significantly concerned about this because i i think it does play into the the principle of electrification

4:02:49as well as as root expansion so there's a number of questions

4:02:53um uh some of them have to do with electrification like uh

4:02:57when when we're having various different places that electric buses run does this have an impact on that

4:03:03uh the other thing is as golf grows will this be a de facto reduction in service

4:03:08because the population increases

4:03:10uh we if we have the same number of routes we've reduced proportionately the the service that we've provided

4:03:17similarly i'm not certain that this doesn't run contrary to our principles of net zero and 100 percent

4:03:24renewable and finally what's the impact on our economic growth lens in on on the speedville corridor

4:03:30in the in the south end and elsewhere similarly

4:03:34It seems to me that we must be looking at unifying the conestoga college campuses

4:03:39And this might have an impact on that as well. I know that's a load

4:03:43I just want to throw it all at once if staff could please uh respond and i'll remind you if you've missed anything. Thanks

4:03:50so

4:03:51Yep, so through the mayor to council

4:03:53I'm going to start and then we'll have transit staff come up and help with any of the technical and there was a lot there

4:03:57So I want to start by just re-emphasizing what councillor work said the staff budget proposal already

4:04:03slowed the gulf transit future ready action plan from a 10-year plan to approximately a 13-year plan

4:04:09What this does is take it that a bit slower

4:04:12um the gulf transit future ready action plan was always designed with that flexibility in mind and kudos to robin and laura and the team

4:04:20Because when we originally presented it to council

4:04:22We always talked about the fact that we could speed it up or slow it down and that council had that flexibility to do

4:04:27So this is very much about

4:04:30Just slowing it down that much more

4:04:32It is

4:04:33I'm going to say not something that staff certainly would recommend because we want to um, you know

4:04:38As we're looking at building more houses and servicing the residents also transit is uh a service that

4:04:46A great number of people rely on and if we want our transit service to improve we need to grow it not not slow it down

4:04:54um

4:04:55It gets really complicated when we start to talk about electrification

4:04:58And I kind of want to separate those because we really do have two

4:05:03Transit initiatives we have the gulf transit future ready action plan

4:05:06Which is about this growth of our transit system and the change in routes and we have the electrification of our transit vehicles

4:05:13Well, obviously

4:05:15Considerably linked those are also not linked

4:05:19We cannot grow the transit system and we can still electrify

4:05:22Or we can grow the transit system and not electrify

4:05:25So I would just encourage you to try your best to separate those apart

4:05:28What council or work is proposing now is on that gulf transit future ready action plan

4:05:34And slowing the implementation down on that now what that has meant and I my my ask of council before then I ask

4:05:42Robin and lore to come up

4:05:44What we can't do on the fly right now is say well

4:05:47What if you slowed it down by another year or by less than a year because this was a very very complicated calculation for us

4:05:52Because of the impact on our buses and which are electric and which are diesel and which are replacement

4:05:57Which are growth and that isn't me trying to make an excuse

4:06:00It's just simply that this is an exceedingly complicated calculation and thank you to our finance staff who I think we're still working on this

4:06:08That 6 30 this morning and 10 30 last night to make sure we had our numbers right for you

4:06:12so

4:06:13That was a long way around of saying it is not something that staff recommend

4:06:17But we also didn't really like having to bring you the slow down to 13 years

4:06:22We we if if there was no budget constraints, we would stand by the original plan

4:06:27We want to grow our transit system

4:06:29We want to see more people using it and the only way to have more people using it

4:06:32Conestoga is a great example is if we grow and continue to improve our transit system

4:06:37In terms of the um our net zero goals

4:06:40Obviously transit is a big part of that

4:06:42Um, this slows us down, but it isn't stopping what we're planning to do

4:06:48So it it it slows down our implementation, but it still is taking us along that path and and we will still continue

4:06:55To improve the transit system. It's just going to take us longer than we had originally planned

4:06:59So i'm going to stop and see if robin or laura have things they want to add

4:07:03Please come to the podium

4:07:08And i'm going to let uh, you all know robin garis our general manager of wealth transit

4:07:12I'm going to let laura introduce herself because I will mess up her title

4:07:19Thank you colleen through the mayor to uh the counselor

4:07:24Um, as you're aware a few years ago, we brought the future ready plan to council

4:07:28For approval we built a holistic plan that was kind of like a puzzle

4:07:32We knew that there was going to be big pieces and small pieces

4:07:35We knew we were going to grow as the city of golf grew

4:07:37And I worked with our management team to make sure that uh, we listened to our customers

4:07:42And we tried to bring the best transit service that we could and that's what we all want to do

4:07:45We get that 100 percent

4:07:47As we move forward and we make difficult choices in the direction we're going

4:07:51It's gratifying to know that the plan that we have

4:07:54Can be stretched out or pulled back at specific times and unfortunately

4:07:58This is one of those times that we have to have that conversation

4:08:01Some of the choices that we are going to probably make in the next few years are going to be very important

4:08:06In terms of the level of meeting our customers expectations

4:08:10And that means that um, we have to have take

4:08:13Close attention to our riderships our growth

4:08:16Our electrification and how that affects our users

4:08:20So as we move forward, um

4:08:22The good news is is that our ridership is almost back to normal. It's about 90 to 95 percent of pre-covid

4:08:28So we know that we do have riders and they're enjoying our transit

4:08:31And hopefully we're going to continue seeing an increase in our ridership

4:08:35When we make these important decisions

4:08:37We have to be satisfied when we make the decisions that we can come back

4:08:42And we can make those adjustments in the coming years

4:08:44That's the approach that we took a transit

4:08:46And i'm going to let laura talk a little bit more about the differences between

4:08:50What we plan on moving forward with it. That's the will of council

4:09:00Hi everyone, um, laura catalan obregas supervisor of scheduling and service planning with wealth transit

4:09:06Um, a couple of the things I wanted to highlight for you within the new deferrals that we are looking at

4:09:11One of them specifically is to the sunday on demand service that I spoke to you about last time

4:09:16I was in front of you in this, uh new rework sunday on demand service for the matching of the 99 extended hours would be deferred permanently

4:09:27Um with that, I think the biggest highlight would be that

4:09:31During our community engagement for the future ready action plan and the lead up to that plan

4:09:36That was our number one customer feedback of service that they felt was missing or needed enhancement

4:09:42That is one of the larger risks built within this new

4:09:47This new option the addition of university and conistoga growth

4:09:52From our understanding there is not going to be a

4:09:57Negative growth in that sense where they will not be continuing to increase their

4:10:03enrollments

4:10:04As they continue to grow each each year

4:10:06We want to make sure that uh the service that we're providing for our commuters that are trying to get to work as well as

4:10:12Students that are trying to get to class that we're covering all the basis for everybody and right now we're already experiencing those demands

4:10:19um in terms of

4:10:21The housing we keep talking about the housing pledge transit wants to make sure that we're there to support all the new housing that has to go into development

4:10:29Um throughout the city with growth also comes transit to support that growth

4:10:34In terms of the plan itself

4:10:37As we continue to expand that time the relative

4:10:41Connection to what is happening in reality will need to be reassessed as we go through it

4:10:47Just to make sure that the plan that we had

4:10:49Outlined in a phased approach is still going to be applicable in that phasing in 50 to 17 years as well

4:10:57and finally in terms of the

4:10:59Extension in time with that also comes greater expenses. So the cost of fuel maintenance equipment

4:11:07You know inflationary costs

4:11:10So that's another risk that comes with the

4:11:14the motion forward

4:11:16in terms of

4:11:17Our alignment with the strategic plan and the transportation master plan. I won't go into too much detail. I did discuss that last time

4:11:24Really, we're here to get people moving through the city

4:11:27outside of your personal vehicle and

4:11:29We want to continue to do that for everybody

4:11:32Thank you. Just one quick follow-up. I hope

4:11:36I heard you make reference to to 17. I think the 20 years

4:11:41Are you saying that if we stick to the 13 there's still

4:11:44A lag so that there's like a four year follow-up beyond that this that was the way I interpreted if we if we have a 13 year plan

4:11:51right now it will not essentially be completed or will not be

4:11:55completely

4:11:57Actualized until about year 17. Is that right or did I miss that?

4:12:02No, sorry. So the the table

4:12:06The table budget that you were presented prior to the motion today

4:12:10Has a 13 year at the end of the 13 years the plan will be implemented this new motion today

4:12:16We'll take 15 to 17 years to implement depending on

4:12:20Possible deferrals in the future as well. So right now we're seeing 37

4:12:24We may see as the years continue that that continues to grow and that could get us to the 17 by the by the end

4:12:29Okay, thank you. So we're looking forward to almost two decades at the end of the okay. Thank you very much

4:12:38Kate and a question just want to make sure there's just questions at this time

4:12:45yes

4:12:46so my question was

4:12:49Through you to staff we have recently changed

4:12:53A lot of our parking regulations and I'm wondering how much of an impact

4:12:59the

4:13:00transit plan

4:13:02expansion of timeline would have on the regulations that we're now

4:13:07With a limited parking that we've got currently

4:13:13Through the mayor to councillor Caton

4:13:15obviously

4:13:17reduction of parking

4:13:20Higher growth transit ridership assists with reduction in parking

4:13:23But we haven't specifically looked to that granular level of detail

4:13:27Because this isn't pulling back. Um, it's just taking us a bit longer to get to our transit growth

4:13:33So I I don't know that I can definitively say that we've quantified the impact on parking except that in a

4:13:40Holistic way more people on transit means fewer people in cars who need parking. So I love misholms is nodding

4:13:46So I think that's probably our best answer for now

4:13:49Thank you very much

4:13:51Thank you and billings

4:13:56To you mr. Mayor, um

4:13:58Just a little bit ago. It was thrown up on the screen. Okay. So where we were at currently with the tax increase

4:14:06so

4:14:07with this motion

4:14:09um

4:14:10Just do staff have the numbers so for example 2024 tax increase would be

4:14:16What how much does this motion bring down the tax increase for 24 25 to 6 27

4:14:33To you, uh, mr. Mayor through mr. Mayor to councillor billings. We just need one moment to

4:14:40Heck

4:14:48Councillor billings staff have just said that they're going to calculate it as soon as they're ready

4:14:51I'll go right back to that answer. I'm just going to go to councillor downer for a question while they're calculating that

4:14:57Okay, councillor downer is next and that I've got go

4:14:59I don't have a question. I have comments. Oh comments

4:15:02Okay, well, why don't you start with comments? Go ahead?

4:15:05so this is um

4:15:08Feeling like deja vu for me where um, so I've been around for a very very long time

4:15:16And I have this corporate memory

4:15:18So we make transit plans and then the wheels come off the bus

4:15:23No, unintended

4:15:25so the

4:15:27The and and and it happens a budget time every time

4:15:33If you create a 10-year plan like we were we did and we all knew at the time that this was going to be

4:15:38You know this time we were going to do it right this time. We were going to get it right

4:15:43We've done this before quite a few times. We're going to get this transit thing right

4:15:48And then what we get to budget. Oh, let's let's but this is an affordability issue for many people in our community

4:15:56And when we're building twice as many homes over the next 10, you know 10 years than we normally do

4:16:02This is really important. You need to be servicing those routes pretty quickly

4:16:07In order for people to start changing that modal shift

4:16:11This is really important and and like I said, it's an affordability issue

4:16:15But these things get like I said the wheels come off the bus at budget time all the time on

4:16:22On the transit issues when we have if you've got a 10-year plan and you take that 17 years

4:16:28Forget it. That's redundant

4:16:31After 10 years this plan is redundant even even at 13 years. We're going to be re-planning the transit

4:16:39and updating our plan

4:16:41with before 10 years is up

4:16:44Because you know, we've got a new community whether the g.i.d. Lands come on or whatever happens

4:16:49We don't know the impact of kind of still all kinds of things

4:16:52But please council do not let the wheels fall off the bus on this transit

4:16:59Plan any more than to be taking it out to 13 years

4:17:03Like I said, I have been here before do not do it. It is unwise

4:17:11Okay, thank you

4:17:13Engauler comments

4:17:15Three-year worship fellow councilors

4:17:17I seconded this motion because I think it's important to have these conversations and understand what options there are

4:17:23To to ease the burden on our residents

4:17:26However, after hearing responses from staff, I will not be supporting the motion

4:17:32Okay, and do we have an answer from uh, terra?

4:17:36Yeah, so the operating impacts um

4:17:39As outlined in the motion would be point zero five percent reduction in 24

4:17:44point zero nine 25

4:17:47point zero six and 27 and point 21 and sorry, I might have messed up the years there but

4:17:54Point oh five point oh nine point oh six and then point two one

4:17:59Okay, thank you so much

4:18:01Councillor billings. Did you still want to have the floor now now that your question's been answered?

4:18:06Well, I'm just okay the answer is given that was the decrease in

4:18:11in operating

4:18:13Impact right but wasn't there a lot of capital in there?

4:18:23um, so uh through the mayor to councillor billings if

4:18:28Most of the capital I will say is funded from development charges and the icip grant in terms of the tax supported

4:18:35uh in total um

4:18:38the

4:18:39The the base reduction that could occur is 362 thousand which would be approximately

4:18:45point one

4:18:46percent reduction as well

4:18:48Okay, but is that piece though? I will say is not in the current motion that's uh,

4:18:53Tableed and would have to be something considered post

4:18:56um the decision

4:18:58Thank you, tongue

4:19:00Okay, and to the mover

4:19:02Thanks, pancothry. So we all know how fast we're moving on the budget and we're asking questions

4:19:09When I thought can we smooth it over another couple of years?

4:19:13I wasn't thinking 17 initially, but I think it's important to have the conversation right

4:19:20As we're having the conversation the cuts feel a little too deep to me. Well the production of the pace feels

4:19:27Too deep

4:19:29Because the sunday night bus service is one of the things I hear from most from students who work in at gas stations or wherever

4:19:35All over the city so they get to work on the bus and then they can't get home

4:19:39So, um, I'm I'm hearing from a council colleagues. There's not a lot of appetite for it

4:19:44You know, I ride the bus. You know, I want to see these expansions. You know, I fought for it in the handle greek business park

4:19:50So as long as as long as this council says no we're behind

4:19:55What it costs to do this especially since there's a lot of exterior funding for

4:19:59That capital then then I'll withdraw the motion

4:20:06Okay, thank you very much and councillor Goller as the seconder. Are you okay to also withdraw and then I have to ask

4:20:12all of council is anyone against uh that withdrawal

4:20:16No, okay, we're all on the same bus. So that's good

4:20:21All right

4:20:23Um, guess what everyone that's it. That's it. So we have a few

4:20:35Yeah, I have you on the list. I'll get to that for sure

4:20:38Um, I have no other

4:20:42Councillor Gibson

4:20:45Yeah, let me you know what let me let me get through the what's called companion motions right now

4:20:50Which is more administrative non budgetary and then I'm happy to have a moment for comments like at the end if you want to do

4:20:57That's not a problem. Okay

4:20:59so, um