Youth Facility Discount no longer be applicable for rentals at Sleeman Centre, as of September 1, 2026.

1:33:37right along to the Sleiman Center operating model. We have a few delegations that have signed up,

1:33:42so thank you very much. We have our first one. If you want to get ready, is Alan Rickard? Is

1:33:51Alan here? Okay. Come on down, Alan. And just so everyone knows, maybe those watching online

1:34:02are those that are in the room, you have no more than five minutes to delegate. Okay. You'll hear

1:34:09a chime in the room at the four minute and 30 second mark, which is your warning that you only

1:34:14have 30 seconds left. If you do get to the five minutes, your microphone gets turned off. So don't

1:34:21let it get there, okay? And then just when you're done, just stick around and you might have a follow

1:34:27up question for myself or my colleagues. Maybe not, but just stick around until I dismiss you,

1:34:32okay? So Alan, thank you for joining us and your five minutes will start when you start. Go right

1:34:39ahead. Thank you. Good evening, Mayor Guthrie and Councillors. Thanks for the opportunity to speak

1:34:45on this issue. There's a number of other delegations here that I'll be representing some of the

1:34:50organizations and I see you've received a lot of submissions as well. I'm here as a Ward 5

1:34:56resident. I've got three kids that play hockey, two in the GGHA, one in the GMHA, and two of them

1:35:02got their start with the Stanley Stick organization. So I spent a lot of time in rinks. What I can

1:35:07tell you is that over the last month or so, this has become a very hot topic at the rinks.

1:35:15There's a lot of underlying frustration, I think, that this kind of sparks. And I think it's not

1:35:19just about the Sleeman Center, but about some of the signaling that has been to that community

1:35:24around this broader structural issue that we have. Simply put, Guelph does not have enough ice

1:35:32pads, enough ice rinks for the community that it needs. The signal that I'm talking about is that

1:35:39today, we're at March 31st, and we're talking about things that will affect ice availability and

1:35:45cost, certainly in September, September 1, with the expectation that we will have

1:35:51a new facility available for us. But that facility is still under construction. I think that's a

1:35:56little bit of a cart before the horse approach. I think it would be a better approach to make

1:36:03sure that we have this as bookable ice before we can start making decisions on limiting or changing

1:36:09the availability or cost of that ice. The challenge is, I mean, these are very complex facilities.

1:36:14There's going to be a very complex commissioning process for these things. And there's a lot of

1:36:19uncertainty around us as we sit here today, months away from that availability. Now, Sleeman

1:36:25Center itself, it's not the most ideal place for minor hockey. It certainly isn't for community use.

1:36:32It's right downtown. Usually, you're down there. There's a lot of traffic issues. Parking is a

1:36:37challenge. But it's necessary. We don't have enough ice. In fact, there's quite an extreme

1:36:43shortage of ice as we look around to other communities. Right now, we have five community

1:36:48ice pads for a population of about 165,000 people. That works out to about one nice pad for every

1:36:5533,000 residents of the city. And as far as I can tell, that puts us at the lowest in the province

1:37:02for ice availability of communities of our size. In reality, it's actually even a little bit worse

1:37:08than that. Of those five pads, we have three of them that are regulation size. Two of them,

1:37:13exhibition and centennial, that were built in the 1940s and 1960s. And they're much smaller

1:37:20sizes there. Not really suitable for playing sports. And, you know, that can be for other uses,

1:37:25perhaps. But we still have to use them right now for both recreation level hockey and other uses,

1:37:34as well as some rep level. You know, the girls rep hockey teams are playing in those rinks right

1:37:39now. And they're much smaller. And due to the lack of alternatives, we sort of our effective

1:37:45capacity is much lower than what that count suggests. Another issue is that this is triggered,

1:37:49I think, is how it's kind of happened over time. You know, it was identified probably about 25

1:37:55years ago that Guelph should be looking at having some more ice pads here. That was formalized in

1:38:002009 when there was a needs assessment that was done and a report that was put out. We're now at

1:38:042026 and we're looking at finally getting these two new ice pads put in. When we look at our own

1:38:11projections here, we're looking at 208,000 people in Guelph by 2051. And as far as I can see,

1:38:18there's really no follow on for what is the planning going to be. You know, it's taken us the 16,

1:38:2317 years to get this, these rinks. What's the next step behind that? And that context matters.

1:38:30Once the safe end facility is opened, it still is not enough ice for this facility. The city

1:38:36reports a provisional target of one pad for every 22,000 people. Most communities have

1:38:42target more like one for 15,000 people, one rink. And we don't even get once these two rinks are

1:38:49operational seven rinks for 165,000 people. That doesn't get us to even our own bar that we set

1:38:56with the reports that we have. So these future needs that we seem to want to be committing to,

1:39:02they're not meeting the current needs that we currently have. And those needs set by our own

1:39:07reports that we've had and seen there. So with that context, I guess my recommendations here or my

1:39:15asks would be first, please don't change any of the ice availability or cost access, etc. at

1:39:21Sleeman Center until we know for sure that we can book ice at the new facilities. Second,

1:39:26can we please start a planning process? I'm not sure what that looks like, but to look at the needs

1:39:31for the future going forward, figure out what those levels are that we need to have. And third,

1:39:37we really do need to have a plan for Centennial and Exhibition. These are aging facilities and it's

1:39:41a problem. Thank you. All right, just boom, right at the wire there. Good thing you didn't say,

1:39:48I have seven requests. We had the three and that was good. Okay. Is there a fault? Okay. Follow up

1:39:54from Councillor Chew. Councillor Busuttil. Thank you very much. Go ahead, Councillor Chew.

1:40:02Thank you through you, Mr. Mayor. Alan, good to see you. Thank you for meeting with me this

1:40:07past month and sharing with me your perspective on behalf of some of the minor hockey folks.

1:40:14You mentioned the condition of some of our older facilities like Centennial and Exhibition.

1:40:18Do you see opportunities for us to use those differently and more creatively?

1:40:23Absolutely. I think there's a couple issues there. I think thank you for the question,

1:40:27Councillor Chew. I think that there's the opportunity certainly to have them being used still,

1:40:32but it's more than just the size of the rink that's the issue there. I can tell you,

1:40:36I volunteered at the girls hockey tournament a couple of weekends ago. It was pouring rain on a

1:40:41Friday and as the teams were coming in, there was water leaking out of the light fixtures in one of

1:40:47the change rooms. We had to move that team to a different change room. The city staff were great

1:40:53in helping us do that, but they said, you know, this change room isn't great. This change room,

1:40:57number one, because it doesn't have a door on the bathrooms. And so we said, well, we can,

1:41:03you know, we can manage that because we can use the other washrooms. And then as I go into the

1:41:07men's washroom and exhibition arena, there's a urinal about eight inches from a sink. And I just,

1:41:16it sort of cat catches me that, you know, these really aren't suitable facilities. I don't think

1:41:21we have that standard anywhere else in the city. And certainly I think it should be, you know,

1:41:26something looked at. So it's not just about just the ice surface size. That is absolutely something

1:41:30that we can incorporate into a strategy here, I think, but, you know, the facilities themselves

1:41:36needless to say, there's a huge, you know, capital maintenance costs annually that come with those,

1:41:40as well as very high operating costs for these older facilities as well.

1:41:44I guess just my last comment or question, rather, like we had mentioned during our discussions that

1:41:52our geographic footprint in the city is quite limited for any new build. We talked about Cambridge

1:42:00being an example, but that facility is located in their industrial lands and employment lands. And,

1:42:06you know, our employment lands are quite limited, and we have to be quite strategic in how we

1:42:10scope out opportunities for private public partnerships or privately run proponent driven

1:42:19projects. I think just with that context, how do you think we can address that broader demand in

1:42:25the city moving forward? Yeah, that's, I don't know if I have an answer for that. I think,

1:42:31you know, certainly it's got to be in conjunction with a lot of folks, right? I think that there's

1:42:35some development land, developer land that we see, but it's going to be the same challenge I think

1:42:41we have for just that population growth as well. We are faced with that constrained land

1:42:46to develop anything. So I feel that's a bit more of a challenge for you folks to figure out than

1:42:53I don't know if I have a great answer, but I understand the constraint, absolutely. It's part

1:42:58of the challenge. You know, thanks for the conversation. I hope we can continue that on.

1:43:04Thanks very much. Thank you to Councillor Pousatil and then Karan, please.

1:43:09Thank you very much for the delegation. So I have two questions. I really want to boil it down into

1:43:15what is the concern here? What is something that we as City Council and staff can take away? And

1:43:20what I took away is that it's the certainty in booking for the season. Is that fair that if you

1:43:26know now that when you can book it, that alleviates some of the concern for the season? And then I

1:43:33have a second question. Sure. I mean, I think that those are the tip of the iceberg issues. So

1:43:40thinking about getting schedules out in time. When I think of our neighbors in Milton, when the

1:43:48kids are trying out in April for their teams, they know exactly which night, what time their

1:43:56home practices and home games are for the entire rest of the season. I know in Hulton Hills,

1:44:01by the time they get to the end of September, they have their full schedule booked for the

1:44:05entire year. With the constrained amount of ice that we have here, booking and trying to keep

1:44:09everybody happy in the arenas becomes a real challenge. And I think that that limits the

1:44:15ability for parents to be able to plan things more than, you know, a couple months, a couple months

1:44:20out. And that becomes a real challenge with three kids in hockey. That becomes a real challenge for

1:44:25us. But I think what it's really sparked is this underlying issue of just ice availability for the

1:44:31community. Thanks. So I didn't quite get an answer. So yes, it's about booking and scheduling and

1:44:36having that kind of laneway to make sure you get there. My second question is, and Councillor Chew

1:44:43kind of tweaked it for me, is I remember having this conversation around pools. And I know that

1:44:48we have pool facility, baseball facilities, Councillor Hauser and I visited in the industrial area.

1:44:54And Cambridge was mentioned. And I'm old enough that I remember. Rinks in Cambridge,

1:45:00it wasn't the municipality that responded to the need. It was the private sector that stepped up

1:45:05and created ice opportunities there, just like we've seen with, you know, pools and we've seen with

1:45:13baseball facilities as well. Are you aware, is that, you know, Councillor Chew was asking,

1:45:19how do you see the solution to this? You understand, we like, I mean, we have limited capital funding

1:45:26and resources, smaller and smaller and smaller, and the, you know, the amount of pressure on the

1:45:32public. So do you see private sector anywhere in your conversations? Absolutely. In fact, I think

1:45:39that is, that will be one of the solutions that, I mean, I don't know what the exact solution is.

1:45:44I think that needs to be determined amongst groups of people that will be working together to

1:45:49figure this out. I hope we can start that process. But yeah, I think that that's very viable. This

1:45:55is what we've seen in Cambridge, right? They've expanded that rink to a couple more pads. There

1:45:58was some community involvement, some private money. It's a very successful rink. You know, they have,

1:46:03lively, I was there last night for a hockey practice. It was, you know, they have a bar up there,

1:46:09which is fantastic for the parents and viewing also the baseball diamonds and they've got a pro

1:46:14shop as well. Yeah. That was the salad bar, right? Yeah, salad. You could get salad there. Yes. Yeah,

1:46:21and that's where I was going. You know, I was thinking about my experience. Yeah, there's,

1:46:25there's a number other. If you look at the Leuna one in Hamilton, there's the Mohawk. It was called

1:46:29the Mohawk four. That's another public private, you know, participation thing. I think that,

1:46:34that's the model that seems to be working where you can get more than one ice pad. You can get

1:46:38sort of economies of scale working with a private partner. And frankly, they're probably better

1:46:42at, you know, filling it with more commercial, commercial run ice, ice availability for the

1:46:48communities. And with those salad bars, thank you very much for your delegation.

1:46:53Okay, Councillor Caron, I think is good to bring this home on this one. Great. And then we'll go

1:46:58to our next delegation. Go ahead. Thanks. And this is, this is a great conversation, an important

1:47:02topic in the community talking about future planning. We talked about the private sector,

1:47:06we talked about what the public sector can provide. I'm wondering about the university,

1:47:11other institutions. I know there's two ranks there, the red and the gold. How often are those used by

1:47:17minor hockey? I mean, I can, I can speak for my personal use. I think some of the folks that

1:47:23are coming up later will have better information on, on how that those are actually used, you know,

1:47:28ours, they're, they're part of the associations. We use them all the time. And I think that there's,

1:47:33you know, there might be a willingness at the university we've heard to, to possibly expand

1:47:37those facilities, which would certainly help in the community also. The challenge with the

1:47:41university though, you know, I talk about my one to 15,000 ratio that we see in communities,

1:47:46the university student body and especially the staff there, that's about 30,000 people. And

1:47:51we're talking about a demographic that is a high use demographic there. So there's not a lot of

1:47:56ice really, you know, there's, there's certainly some ice at certain times available. And it's

1:48:00the only ice available as far as I can understand through the summer, having ice availability

1:48:06there as well. So, so certainly part of the, hopefully could be part of the solution also.

1:48:13Great. Thank you, Councillor Fraun. And thank you very much for coming. We appreciate your

1:48:18presentation. Thank you. Thanks very much. Chris is coming down next from the 12th minor hockey

1:48:25association. And I think Jamie, Jamie, you're in, where's Jamie? Jamie here? Sorry, I don't have

1:48:36my glasses. Hi, you'll be in the wings. Okay, you're after that. So after Chris, hi, Chris. Thank

1:48:41you for coming. And again, no more than five minutes. I'll turn it over to you. Good evening,

1:48:46Mr. Mayor, members of council and staff. My name is Chris Sankwa and I am the vice president of

1:48:51the golf minor hockey association and a member of the golf sport council. I'm here representing

1:48:56over 1700 youth athletes and their families and in alignment with the broader golf sport community.

1:49:02Thank you for your time and opportunity to speak on this issue. Over the past five years, our

1:49:06association has experienced tremendous growth. We have grown from under 1200 players to over 1700

1:49:12today, an increase of nearly 50%. And yet during that same time, our access to ice has not meaningfully

1:49:18increased. For the past four years, we've repeatedly come to the city asking for additional ice to

1:49:23support this growth. And the consistent response has been there's no more ice available, which we

1:49:28can all agree. To give you a real example of how constrained the system is, our triodes are not

1:49:34scheduled by us. The dates are dictated by our governing bodies and take place over four week

1:49:39periods starting in April. Over the last several years, the city has provided us zero hours of ice

1:49:44to run our triodes, zero for which we require hundreds of hours to do so. This year, we've been

1:49:50given a dozen or so hours to support 34 teams. We are forced to leave Guelph and spend tens of

1:49:56thousands of dollars in other municipalities just to run a fundamental part of our program.

1:50:01Here's another example. Our governing bodies require us to provide pre-evaluation skates prior

1:50:07to triodes. This is not optional. It's an obligation that we must offer to our players to ensure they

1:50:12are properly prepared. We have approximately 700 players who should have access to these sessions.

1:50:18Based on the ice currently available to us, we can only accommodate about 120 skaters.

1:50:23The program sells out in under an hour. That leaves over 500 players without access to prepare

1:50:29for ice before triodes, putting them at a disadvantage before they even step on the ice.

1:50:34Now, we do recognize that the South End Rec Center will help, but let me be clear, it helps, but it

1:50:40does not solve the problem. Those additional hours will quickly be absorbed by all user groups who

1:50:45have been operating under the same constraints. Minor hockey, figure skating, and ringet, we have

1:50:50all been limited in our ability to grow and deliver quality programming. And more importantly,

1:50:55it does not replace the need for stable, predictable access to ice. Let me put our situation

1:51:01perspective in terms of overall demand. To run our program at a bare minimum, we require 5,000

1:51:07hours of ice. The City of Guelph is able to provide us 3,500 of those hours. That means we are forced

1:51:13to secure roughly 1,500 hours of ice outside the City every single year. In that ice, that facilities

1:51:20that have no obligation or allegiance to us as an organization puts us in a very vulnerable position.

1:51:27We are relying on third-party facilities to deliver core parts of our program, facilities that can

1:51:32reprioritize, increase costs, or remove access at any time. Brings me to the core issue in why this

1:51:41conversation about Sleeman Center is so important. Even though our total hours at Sleeman may appear

1:51:45small in isolation, they are a critical part of a very tight system. The additional south end

1:51:51rec center hours will quickly be absorbed by all user groups. From our perspective, Sleeman is not

1:51:56surplus capacity, it is essential capacity. The proposal before you removes the predictability

1:52:02of our contracts at Sleeman Center, it moves youth organizations into a general booking system.

1:52:06For us, this is not an ideal, this is not about locations, it is about certainty. We plan our season

1:52:12eight to twelve months in advance, we build teams, recruit coaches, set registrations, schedule leagues,

1:52:17commit to programming well before the season begins. Without knowing how much ice we will have or when

1:52:22we will have it, we are being asked to plan programs without understanding our capacity. That is not

1:52:27sustainable. What is also very concerning is how the proposal came forward. As the largest ice user

1:52:33in the city of Guelph and very likely the single largest youth user group in terms of revenue

1:52:39contributions back to the city contributing about $750,000 annually back to the city,

1:52:45we were not consulted. Not once, no meeting, no phone call, no email, staff had every opportunity

1:52:52to reach out and say, hey, we're trying to increase revenue at Sleeman, how would this impact you?

1:52:56Instead we are presented with a decision that directly impacts our ability to operate

1:53:00without any engagement. We have heard the argument that the youth group's long-term

1:53:05contracts are limiting the city's ability to host events at Sleeman. Respectfully, that is not

1:53:10accurate. The Tragical Hip, the Arquels, Blue Rodeo, Grand Slam of Curling, the Kia Cup,

1:53:15Shrine Sergus, Cheerleague competitions, Hillside Inside, all major events the city has hosted

1:53:20all while youth user groups are active in the building. We have always worked around events,

1:53:24we have always been flexible and at no point have we prevented this from happening.

1:53:29So I'll get to our simple ask. We're not asking to block events, we're not asking for exclusive

1:53:35access, we're asking to maintain our contracts at Sleeman Center with a displacement clause.

1:53:40Give us some notice, three months, six months, and if an event is booked, we will move,

1:53:44we will adjust, we'll work with the city as we always have. Times up.

1:53:50Okay, thank you very much and we appreciate your presentation too.

1:53:58I saw a hand come up here and then one over here. So Gibson and then Boosentill please.

1:54:03Thanks Mr. Enquire, that was great. I appreciate it. I've heard this before and I appreciate your

1:54:08sentiments. There's one piece that I wanted you to touch on that I didn't hear in your delegation,

1:54:13that was your big power play tournament every year. You and I, I think we discussed this a few

1:54:18years back, a couple hundred teams and it seems like we're taking over Cambridge that weekend now

1:54:23because we're taking 50-some games from the tournament and send it over there. So if you

1:54:27could just speak to me, I think there's a little bit of a sleeping giant here in terms of economic

1:54:30development for our city as well in terms of hotel stays, teams that come and then the utilization

1:54:36of our facilities and how we could grow that event even more with more ice time, you know,

1:54:40keeping Sleeman Center online. For sure. We host about a hundred teams for that one weekend.

1:54:46It brings in significant amount of revenue to the city in terms of hotels,

1:54:50but unfortunately we have people staying in Milton, Hamilton, just to play and go off because that's

1:54:55the closest hotels and we use all of Cambridge Sports Park for that weekend. On a bigger impact,

1:55:01it provides about $50,000 to our bottom line to help reduce the cost for our users. So it's very

1:55:09important for us and I know the girls run similar tournaments but we just don't have the facilities

1:55:14here to do it the way we need. We're sending a lot of money outside of Guelph for those tournaments,

1:55:21so you're right. We do use Cambridge a lot and for that. Okay, thanks. And I just want to make sure

1:55:26I clarify if I'm wrong, but I heard you say that you want to work with the city. You don't want

1:55:31to be displaced. You're willing to give with some notice. You're more than willing to move programming

1:55:35around to make yourself, if a big event's happening at the Sleeman Center, you'd be more than willing

1:55:39to move your schedule a little bit to help accommodate. That's the type of partnership that

1:55:44you're proposing. Yes, that is 100% true. Let us deal with what we have at the Sleeman Center.

1:55:50If it's games, obviously those are harder to displace, but we can have practices. We have

1:55:54everything that are easier to displace. And our season is only six months long, core season from

1:56:00September to February. Then we get into playoffs on that, but our core season is in those months.

1:56:06And I'm pretty sure if there's an event happening at Sleeman Center, it's not with a one-month notice.

1:56:11There's enough planning that has to go involved that we would be able to plan around that as well.

1:56:17Thanks very much. Thank you. And then I'll please. Thank you. And thank you for your delegation.

1:56:25So I have two questions. In your delegation, I didn't hear clearly whether or not you

1:56:31are okay with the removal of the youth subsidy in using the Sleeman Center. And then I have a

1:56:37second question. Okay. Yeah, I didn't touch on that because I knew it was going to be talked with

1:56:41other delegations. So yes, obviously we are opposed to removing the youth subsidy from the Sleeman

1:56:48Center. As you know, ice costs are the largest impact for us. It's our largest pass through to

1:56:57our families. And removing of that is it just increased the cost for our families. We already

1:57:04have to use so much ice. Like I said, 1500 hours of ice that we have to use that we do not get to

1:57:10use subsidy for whether it be at the University, Camber Sports Park or in other municipalities.

1:57:17At one time, we did have the youth subsidy at the University arenas. It was an agreement

1:57:21partnership between the city and the university and that was removed from us as well. And so

1:57:26we are paying a premium for probably 30% of our ice already and we would hopefully the Sleeman

1:57:32Center use subsidy would still be intact. Thank you for that. And my last question is similar to

1:57:41what I asked Mr. Rickard is, you know, I think back to the 90s. I was very young, no kids, but I

1:57:47worked on the Guelph Youth Music Center where the arts community came together working with the city

1:57:52of Guelph to create a facility. You know, what I asked Mr. Rickard is, you know, looking for the

1:57:59solution going forward has, you know, the Guelph Minor Hockey talked about either with private or

1:58:05so on, looked for alternatives in the private sector, joint public private. The Guelph Youth

1:58:10Music Center was city and the Suzuki Street School that fundraise for that capital renovation and

1:58:17building and so on. Have you thought about that because, you know, I dream about that. Okay. All

1:58:22right. No, to be honest, I think there's a narrative around the city of Guelph that council or the

1:58:33city will not allow private public partnerships. I don't know where it stemmed from, but that is

1:58:43the narrative around the hockey arena is that the city will not allow a private public partnership.

1:58:48When you go into other municipalities and you see, you know, facilities all donated by

1:58:53different corporations and companies and all that, Guelph doesn't have that for the most part in any

1:58:58of our facilities. Again, those narratives probably predate me, but that is the narratives around. And

1:59:05if council can say yes, you know what, we would support a public-private partnership,

1:59:11I am confident that within our 1700 families, there's enough people who would know people,

1:59:16who would go out and start doing what needs to be done to build it. If we had some assurances that,

1:59:22yes, it could be done. Thank you for the response. And that would be with a salad bar too, right?

1:59:28Of course. Okay. Thank you for those questions. And I believe my last here to wrap this one up is

1:59:37an ult, please. Thank you very much, Mayor Guthrie. Through you to the delegate, Mr. Sanquo. Mr. Sanquo,

1:59:45there's absolutely no doubt in my mind that everybody is concerned about positive activities for

1:59:52children and youth and even for adults, both in this council and within the community.

1:59:58But my questions are technical in nature, and I apologize if they are unseemly in some sense.

2:00:07The stems from the last presentation that we had from the lobbyist register, you said that you

2:00:16are a member of the Guelph Sports Council. Correct. Are you speaking on behalf of the Guelph

2:00:21Sports Council? Right now I'm speaking on behalf of the Guelph Minor Hockey Association.

2:00:26Okay. So, but another organization. Okay. I will continue though on asking about the Sports Council.

2:00:31What is the status of the Sports Council? I've read about it, but I'm still not clear what its

2:00:37mandate is. So our mandate is to support all the Guelph Sports Groups and to be a voice

2:00:44and to bring them together to provide one voice and advocate for what we feel is what the Guelph

2:00:51Sports Community needs. Now, it was established a number of years ago with high excitement,

2:00:57and over time that has dwindled a bit, but we are a core group, whether it's about seven or

2:01:01eight of us now that would meet on a quarterly basis when schedules allow to bring up any issues

2:01:07we have or discuss any issues we have. As far as I know, our de facto leader right now did have a

2:01:15phone call with the mayor recently last week to discuss their viewpoint, and unfortunately,

2:01:22we didn't get a memo in by the time. Okay. And thank you. Just following up again,

2:01:29because I think it's more Sports Council, but I understand you're representing Minor Hockey,

2:01:33but this will help me a lot. What is the comparison of facilities available for Minor Hockey relative

2:01:42to fields and diamonds for other sports for members of the community? I would say I'm a

2:01:51baseball parent as well. I would say the same challenges across all the sports are there.

2:01:58I think availability is one, and infrastructure is another one. And we talked about the centennial

2:02:06ice rink and exhibition. I think we have the same infrastructure problems within on baseball and

2:02:12other fields. I'm sure if this was talking about removing youth user groups from certain premium

2:02:18soccer fields, the Guelph soccer would be here as well in saying that they rely on those to just

2:02:23meet their bare minimum programs. And I think we're last number of years that Guelph soccer has

2:02:27seen some fields being renovated and improved just to meet their bare minimum. So I think we're all

2:02:33in the same boat in terms of, you know, we'd always like more. But I think we're at a perfect

2:02:43storm of the city growing infrastructure, not growing along with it. And the demand is there

2:02:48as well. And it's a perfect storm and to the other councillors question, I don't know what the

2:02:53right solution is. But I think, you know, if there is an opportunity for a private public

2:02:59partnership to explore for fields, for diamonds, for rinks, I think that's an option.

2:03:06And thank you very much for both your heartfelt presentation and also for working with youth

2:03:13in hockey. I wish you all the best, regardless what happens in this particular discussion.

2:03:17Thank you. Thank you, Councillor Allt. I have a question just before you go.

2:03:24Can you explain to me a little bit more about this displacement policy idea?

2:03:27Sure. So I think where, and I wasn't at the committee the whole meeting, but of course I

2:03:33watched it and everything. I'm up to speed. But the report is basically suggesting that the block,

2:03:41the blocking of times would shift to the south end rec centre, giving the opportunity then for

2:03:49the Sleeman Centre to be open up for more events and large concerts and conferences and etc. etc.

2:03:55And I think everyone sort of nods their head and agree, like we want to use the Sleeman Centre

2:04:00for more for that. But are you still asking for the blocking of time at the Sleeman Centre?

2:04:12But with a displacement clause in your contracts? Okay, so your answer to that is yes.

2:04:19Yes. Okay. Because your demand, the demand of your programming is so great.

2:04:27Correct. So, okay. Do you have any, sorry, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but do you have any

2:04:35ideas of other, like you say that you use Cambridge or these other, do they have similar

2:04:42wording in their contracts? Or are you aware of other larger facilities where a displacement

2:04:48contract or displacement language is built into the contracts?

2:04:52I do not have one on the tip of my tongue. I would assume there would be some that longer

2:04:58bookings that if something brighter and shinier and more generates more revenue comes in that they

2:05:05would, you know, push people out, which is, it happens. But I don't have one on the tip of my tongue.

2:05:11I think for us, like I said, our schedule is from September to February for the most part.

2:05:16Yeah. And I would like to think that if there's an event happening in November,

2:05:20we know before September that it's happening. Okay. And so I think with in due time, we can

2:05:26adjust. We don't use a lot of hours at Slinging Center, but those hours are critical.

2:05:33Okay. Awesome. Thank you for, thank you for, for explaining that. Okay. That was, that's it for

2:05:38questions for you. We appreciate it. Thank you very, very much for coming. Thank you. And Jamie,

2:05:43come on down. And then, sorry, I gotta put my glasses on here. Is Michelle here?

2:05:50Okay, Michelle, you're in the wings after, after Jamie. Okay. Jamie, thanks for coming.

2:06:00Thank you. And you're with the Guelph Minor Hockey Association as well. So thank you very much.

2:06:04And you have up to five minutes if you need. And so your time starts now. Go right ahead. Okay.

2:06:09Thank you. Good evening, Mayor and Council. Thank you so much for having me here today.

2:06:14My name is Jamie Baggio and I have the privilege and honor of serving as a president for Guelph

2:06:18Minor Hockey. Guelph Minor Hockey is more than just hockey. It's a child stepping onto the ice for

2:06:23the first time. The teenager finding the belongings that they need and the families whose winter

2:06:28revolves around community and connection. We serve over 1700 families through House League,

2:06:34Rep Hockey, as well as introductory and development programs, making hockey accessible to as many

2:06:39children as possible. We are not a private club. We are a community pillar. And right now,

2:06:45we are out of ice and we are concerned about our future. This season alone, GMHA secured over 150

2:06:52hours externally for operational purposes. Our teams have independently sourced another 500

2:06:57plus hours outside of the City of Guelph. Our spring triads racked up almost 500 hours that did not

2:07:03come through the city as well. And our House League program, one of the largest in the Tri-County,

2:07:08sat on a wait list for many of our age groups because we did not have enough ice to accommodate

2:07:13creating more teams. Removing regular access to the Sleeman Center and youth subsidy does not

2:07:18create efficiency. It creates displacement and unaffordability. This isn't new. The City Commission

2:07:24Studies in 2009 and 2023 showed the same conclusion. Guelph needs three to four additional pads.

2:07:32One pad serves roughly 15,000 residents and our population at 165,000 requires 11.

2:07:39We are moving in the opposite direction. Reducing youth access to the Sleeman Center delivers

2:07:45minimal financial benefit, less than 30,000 annually from Guelph Minor Hockey, but removes

2:07:49the reliability, prime time use, long-term community bookings, and stable revenue. Riverrun

2:07:55exists for arts and culture. Sleeman was built for sports with youth hockey as a priority.

2:08:00From an operational standpoint, the argument that youth programming limits event opportunities

2:08:05simply not factual. The reality is that large-scale events are not booked overnight or weeks out,

2:08:10and our season is only six months long. Youth organizations plan in advance and are already

2:08:16operating with regular yearly constraints as it is. We have consistently demonstrated flexibility

2:08:21in accommodating many tournaments and barcode dates in our season, coordinating with the city

2:08:25and the University of Guelph, and adapting to lost ice time while working collaboratively with

2:08:30our stakeholders, and we will continue to do so. The city is in serious, serious about expanding

2:08:36its events portfolio. That expansion must happen through proactive booking and transparent planning,

2:08:42not displacing the very community programs that use the facility for half the year.

2:08:46With proper planning, events, and youth programming can coexist with each other. In fact, this is a

2:08:51standard practice across municipalities in Ontario. The South End Rexner may have two paths, but we

2:08:57do not have a confirmed allocation, and we start our season in September. We cannot plan or grow.

2:09:02If Sleeman Access is removed, one new pad merely replaces a lost, leaving the community with that

2:09:08best one pad immediately that would be consumed by current demand. Eliminating 4.25% youth subsidy

2:09:14will push costs onto families, an increase in fuel, food, and rentals fees due to needing to go

2:09:19outside of the city, effectively making hockey less affordable. When costs rise and access shrinks,

2:09:26participation drops. If access to Sleeman Centre is reduced, the impact will not be seen in a budget

2:09:33line. It will be seen by fewer children playing sports. It will be seen in programs that can't

2:09:37expand or worse must shrink. Removing youth subsidy in regular scheduling program from Sleeman's does

2:09:43not address the underlying issues. It shifts the burdens onto families, reduces system efficiencies,

2:09:49and contradicts over a decade of City Commission planning. Looking ahead,

2:09:54Guelph has six pads, soon will have eight, and the removal of Siemens will leave us with seven.

2:09:59But by 2030 and 2031, Centennial and Exhibition are expected to be decommissioned,

2:10:06leaving us now with five pads in four years with an 8% growth in population. We are back

2:10:12further than where we are right now. The solution is clear. Maintain youth access and stable

2:10:17allocations to the Sleeman Centre. Implement coordinated scheduling so events and community

2:10:22programs can coexist. Advance long-term infrastructure planning align with population growth,

2:10:28and support privatization opportunities for multi-season facilities. We have an opportunity

2:10:33here to support children, families, in our community, not forcing the bare-bird into planning gaps.

2:10:39Let's keep youth-ized sports in Guelph and a priority. Thank you for your time.

2:10:44Thank you very much, Jamie. And what about for Jamie? Is there any follow-up questions at all?

2:10:51All right. We're going to have a trend here. Councillor Busuttil,

2:10:54go for it. Yes, thank you very much for your delegation. Same question I've asked all the

2:10:58delegations, and you referenced it all about the public-private partnerships. And I look,

2:11:04you know, close to Cambridge and the model that they've had there to respond to the gap. I understand

2:11:09about the burden on families, but also the burden on public work, competing, well, there's all sorts

2:11:17of pressures. So can you speak to, has your organization at the board level talked about,

2:11:23explored, put together a strategic plan, had conversations with the city about this?

2:11:28It's a great question. Thank you very much for asking it. We have had a lot of conversations

2:11:33over the last five years that I've had the opportunity to serve on our board about the

2:11:38limitations that we have with our eyes at the moment, and nothing was off the table in terms of

2:11:42conversation. When this proposal came forward about Simon Center, this was very catastrophic for us.

2:11:47It has a huge impact in the fact that we know in the next four years, we are going to be actually in

2:11:52a worse position than we currently are while attempting to grow a program with a population.

2:11:58So over the last few weeks, I have reached out to two major developers. One is Buckingham,

2:12:04who actually does the Cambridge Sports Park. They built and operate it under Cityland,

2:12:11and then Canland Sports Park as well. Both are exceptionally keen to come in from a privatization

2:12:16perspective. They have models that work. They have models that are exceptionally effective.

2:12:21They work within our groups that we have. They can accommodate the needs that we have,

2:12:27that the girls hockey would have, that ring out would have. This is a great opportunity,

2:12:31but in terms of land and where that goes, I think that again, that comes back to you wonderful people

2:12:38as to what can we do. There is opportunity. We can 100% have these conversations with

2:12:43these developers. This is what they do. Thank you. Excellent response. You're welcome.

2:12:50Great. Is there any follow up right now or no? Thank you very much again for coming. We appreciate

2:12:56it. Thank you. Thanks so much for your time. You got it. And Michelle, come on down. You're going

2:13:02close us off with your delegation tonight from the Guelph Girls Hockey Association.

2:13:19Thanks for coming, Michelle, and whenever you're ready, okay? Wonderful. Thank you.

2:13:24Thank you. Good evening, Mr. Mayor, members of council and city staff. My name is Michelle

2:13:29Waterson, and I'm here on behalf of the Guelph Girls Hockey Association as the president.

2:13:35We are here today to strongly oppose the removal of the youth subsidy and the displacement from

2:13:40the Sleeman Center. And I also like to note that we did submit a petition on behalf of our members.

2:13:48At its core, this issue is about access. If this subsidy is removed, the cost of ice will increase,

2:13:56and those costs will be passed directly onto families. This means higher registration fees,

2:14:02and for many girls, that becomes a difference between playing and not playing. I'm sorry,

2:14:08emotional about the girls. We already know that girls drop out of sport at a higher rate than boys,

2:14:15and cost is one of the primary barriers. At GGHA, we are actively working to address retention

2:14:22through initiatives like Beyond the Bench in partnership with Homewood Health and Wellington

2:14:27Dufferin Public Health to focus on mental health, confidence, and belonging. But the reality is

2:14:34we cannot solve retention if participation itself becomes unaffordable. And Council has a direct

2:14:40role to play in that. There's also a broader issue here, facility access. We have not been able to

2:14:47add additional teams in over 10 years due to lack of available ice. We do not go elsewhere. We stay

2:14:54in Guelph. We are Guelph Girls Hockey Association. We belong in Guelph. The demand is there. The players

2:15:02are there. The interest is there. But the infrastructure is not, and that has real consequences.

2:15:09Girls are already leaving Guelph to play in other centers because we cannot offer teams

2:15:14or comparable ice times. We are losing athletes not because of lack of interest,

2:15:19because of lack of access. And while we recognize support and celebrate the addition of new rinks,

2:15:26we need to be clear. Displacing user groups from one rink while adding two new ones does not

2:15:32result in two additional rinks. You cannot boast about adding two new rinks while removing affordable

2:15:38access from an existing rink. It simply shifts the problem. We also know that this is not

2:15:45only youth programming that will be displaced from the Sleiman Center, but adult programming as well.

2:15:50And to be clear, we are not here to debate the number of rinks per capita. Others have brought

2:15:55that forward tonight. But we are here saying this. There is a real and immediate access problem,

2:16:01and it's directly impacting girls and sport. This is not just a planning issue. It's a municipal

2:16:07responsibility. The city of Guelph must take ownership of ensuring equitable access facilities

2:16:15to youth sport. We also want to address the comparison we made between sports and the arts.

2:16:21We fully support investment in the arts. They are essential to a healthy and vibrant community,

2:16:28but using the absence of an art subsidy to justify removing a sport subsidy is not responsible policy.

2:16:35Council has the authority to support both. And we strongly encourage you to do so. This is not

2:16:41an either or decision. Our children deserve to be both creative and physical and have those

2:16:47opportunities to thrive. And we need to talk specifically about girls and sport. This is

2:16:52timely today as the future of sport in Canada. Commission report was released today. The current

2:16:59sport system is not consistently designed to meet the needs of women and girls in sport.

2:17:05Yet the demand is growing rapidly. Girls hockey alone has seen an approximate 30% growth since 2022.

2:17:14And at the same time, we know the impact of sports is profound. Girls in sport have lower

2:17:19rates of depression and anxiety. They are more likely to stay engaged in school. They are up to

2:17:2680% more likely to graduate and pursue higher education. And 94% of women in C-suite leadership

2:17:32positions played sport. They're coming to council in years to come. Sport is not just recreation.

2:17:42It is a proven pathway to leadership, resilience, confidence and long term well being. And for many

2:17:48girls, the rink is more than a place to play. It is a safe space, a support system, and a foundation

2:17:55for their future. So when we talk about removing the subsidy, we're not adjusting a line budget.

2:18:00We are creating a barrier, a barrier with disproportionately impact families already

2:18:04facing financial pressures, a barrier that will push girls out of sport and a barrier that

2:18:09directly contradicts the outcomes we are as a community say we value.

2:18:13So day to day, we are asking council to maintain the youth subsidy at Sleeman Center,

2:18:17recognize the affordability, acknowledge the ongoing shortage of ice,

2:18:21and commit into investing grassroots programming and facilities that support youth and girls in sport.

2:18:28Great. Well done. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you for your presentation. Okay. I saw Gibson

2:18:36and then Alt please. Yeah. Thank you very much for your presentation. And thanks for expanding the

2:18:40sort of the face of this conversation. I think a lot of people are just associating

2:18:44golf minor hockey, but it's there's so many other user groups that utilize the Sleeman Center.

2:18:48And it just dawned on me when you were talking about golf girls, but there's also the Ring

2:18:53Ad Association, Stanley Stick, and if correct me if I'm wrong, is the figure skaters, is figure

2:18:57skating also a key program at the youth subsidy at the Sleeman Center? And the giants. And the giants.

2:19:04So again, I appreciate it. And I also appreciate you delving into the

2:19:08the value of sport. We often talk about access to services, access to our library services,

2:19:12and access to other things, and the value that brings to the individual. And this is access to

2:19:16sport and the sort of the resilience aspect that sports builds in our youth's lives.

2:19:22This is more of a comment than a question.

2:19:28Remind me what your role was again last year. Your enrollment for girls.

2:19:32Last year was 440. This year was 492. I would like to make it clear that again,

2:19:40we don't go elsewhere to play. Our girls go elsewhere to play. Yes. When you go to tryouts to

2:19:47Fergus, Waterloo, Kitchener, Cambridge, Air, North Holton, you see the golf colors

2:19:55all the time. Because once they play rep hockey, they don't want to go back to locally hockey.

2:20:01And so they go elsewhere. Girls have open borders where boys that this is new for them.

2:20:06This was the first year that they've had open borders. Girls have had open borders for years.

2:20:11Also, our local league not only plays, we don't just play in Guelph in a local league. We play in

2:20:16a community between centers close to us. So we're again, we're not always here. And I also would

2:20:23like to add that our local league only plays at exhibition. Our games are at exhibition.

2:20:29There's no viewing area for grandparents that can't do the stairs. We have leaks in the bathroom.

2:20:36I mean,

2:20:39My quick math is you just quoted in one year, you had a 10% growth in your enrollment almost from

2:20:45And we could have any more. I guess maybe a question to the advent

2:20:48to the creation of the professional women's hockey league, I'm sure has helped with the

2:20:51registration and getting girls in hockey. Yeah, it's a great sport for girls. It's everything

2:20:55we're told not to be right. We're told to be quiet and mindful. And, you know, they're, they're,

2:21:02you know, they can cheer for one another. You know, they can be a little bit aggressive,

2:21:06you know, stand their ground, use the boards, push in the corner, steal the puck.

2:21:14It's a great sport for girls. Thank you. All right. Thank you. And counselor,

2:21:18Alt and just one second, if you don't mind, counselor, all to then class in and then to

2:21:24boost it till and I just a reminder, everyone just get right to the who, what, when, why,

2:21:29there's right right to the questions. If you don't mind, thank you. Thank you very much,

2:21:33Merrick Guthrie through you to Ms. Watterson. Ms. Watterson, your presentation for me brought

2:21:40up something that is more important than really what we're here for and that's equity. And I'm

2:21:47hoping that you bring it up. I'll tell you, my, my, my favorite coaching experience and I coached

2:21:52a lot of teams was coaching women's rugby. There's nobody I would rather coach than women. I'll tell

2:21:58you that. The question is, do you agree? No, the question really is one of equity and you've answered

2:22:06some of it by stating that essentially you've been compartmentalized to exhibition park.

2:22:12What would you like to see for a girl's minor hockey in Guelph right across the city,

2:22:20irrespective of the debate that we're having at this present time?

2:22:25Well, I'd like to make it clear that it's not that we don't want to use exhibition, absolutely

2:22:30exhibition we've used. We use Centennial. We'll use any rank, but they're just not appropriate for

2:22:35game ice. And so we'd like to be able to move our games into other facilities. And again, at our U7,

2:22:42U9, which is the fastest growing divisions that we have, we require half ice boards. The only

2:22:49boards that we have half ice are at West End, rank two, I believe it is, and Centennial. We don't

2:22:57have ice at Centennial at appropriate times to be able to offer that program. And then also,

2:23:03we only get the West End at appropriate time on Sundays, which then would displace all our other

2:23:09girls as well. So that is a challenge for us. Yeah, I do want to, then I'm going to leave the

2:23:20question, but I'd love to talk to you about equity because you've really raised an important issue

2:23:24there. I would love to talk to you about equity. Okay, thank you. And then Claussen and then

2:23:31Bousatil, thank you. Yes, thank you for your presentation. And I just, I'm sorry, but I'm also

2:23:37a product of women in sports. And I just wanted to say thank you for the work that you do in raising

2:23:43women up in sport and advocating on behalf of them. We need more of you. My question is about

2:23:51just the Sleeman Center specifically. So are your girls playing in the Sleeman Center or a

2:23:56primary? I might have heard the answer over here, but I just, I wanted the clarity around the Sleeman

2:24:01Center specifically. Yes, we do get ice at Sleeman Center. I would like to say like our program,

2:24:08we will grab anything that ever becomes available. We are not, we are not picky. Like, and so the

2:24:16reason we got Sleeman Ice was another user group didn't want it. So we took it in order to be able

2:24:22to, and to be able to not necessarily grow our program, but just we, we share ice. Like our

2:24:30teams share ice. Other centers have their own ice time. Like the U18 team would have their own ice

2:24:35time. We often share ice. So our teams aren't even, so they're not getting the same amount of ice as

2:24:43in Cambridge, Cambridge. For example, their U18 elite team was getting approximately 115 hours

2:24:52of practice ice. That's practice ice alone. The golf girls are getting about 95. And that's not

2:25:01always consistent. So that also includes some strength and conditioning. So it's probably even

2:25:05less than that. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate that. Great. Thank you. And to, to take this home on

2:25:14this one, Boussatil please. Thank you. Still, still asking questions about the salad bar. Yeah.

2:25:19Yes. I'll have a salad bar for you. Yeah. Good to see you, Michelle. It's been a long time.

2:25:23So I'm going to ask the same question that I asked Mr. Rickard and Mr. Sincquon and Madam

2:25:30Baggio just about like, how can we address this? We need partnerships in this. So

2:25:36two part A, do you work with the other groups around ice needs? And you made reference to

2:25:44the arts and you're familiar with the Guelph Youth Music Center, you know, some leadership from the

2:25:49Suzuki string school that took Orph and piano and everyone else and built the facility and

2:25:54managed that and so on and created the governance and so on. Is that part of your vision as well,

2:26:01that, that public private kind of vision? Because, you know, looking to the city, I don't know how

2:26:07we're, we're going to meet all the needs, whether it's pickleball and soccer and pool and gymnastics

2:26:11and underwater hockey and everything else that I've got on my list. All the things are important.

2:26:16Yes. Yeah. Can you tell me about kind of what, where you sit in that? Oh, absolutely. We would

2:26:22love, we love that. In fact, I just had a conversation and I joke about this always. I'm

2:26:27like, if I had a rich uncle, which I don't or win the lottery, I would, I wouldn't make an all girls

2:26:33wrinkle. Honestly, there's one in Nova Scotia, which is amazing. But I don't have a rich uncle and I

2:26:38haven't won the lottery. But a member heard me say that and they said, you know, I have connections

2:26:45and I have some access and if you can provide me sort of what a revenue stream is, what sort of

2:26:50ice costs would be. I might be able to, you know, facilitate some discussion. So we're definitely

2:26:58open to that. Look, we, we want to play hockey. And just a supplemental, are you a member of the

2:27:06Guelph Youth Sports Council? And are these conversations happening at that kind of level?

2:27:14Unfortunately, we have not been given access to that sports council.

2:27:21Okay. Thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. Sorry. Seeing nothing further. Thank you again. We

2:27:30really appreciate that. Thank you. Have a great night. Can I just ask you a follow up question?

2:27:35Sorry. Anytime. That last answer is just not sitting well with me. You said the word you have

2:27:42not been given access. And I just need to flush that out a little bit because I know a lot of

2:27:47the people that are on there and I'm like falling off my chair. Is it, is it actually you've been

2:27:53refused access or have you not been invited or have you been invited and just not had a first

2:28:00meeting yet? Like I just, can you just give me some of that? Like what, what does that mean?

2:28:05We had been approached. Okay. And I said yes, definitely please. We would like to be a part

2:28:11of it. Yes. Please let us know when your next meeting is. Okay. The next meeting has obviously

2:28:16not happened because it's been a year, but and my follow ups have also not been returned. So.

2:28:22Okay. So a conversation had happened for an invite to the next meeting. Next meeting hasn't

2:28:28happened yet. No follow ups have been returned by an email to find it when that meeting is. Okay.

2:28:33That's still, still a customer service issue there. I would, I would state, but not a no

2:28:39access. I just wanted to make sure that there was like, you're not, I didn't, I didn't want it to

2:28:43come across like you aren't allowed. So I just appreciate the clarity. Thank you very much.

2:28:47Yeah. I'll, I'll get on the phone on that issue. Thank you. Thank you very much. Okay. So Council

2:28:56Gibson, I do see your hand, but just, I'm sorry, just one second. Okay. Just as kind of normal

2:29:02practice, I wouldn't mind going back to staff. They've listened to our delegations. They've heard

2:29:08us converse on some things as well. And I think to just kind of get a ground level foundation

2:29:14about moving forward. I think it is important for staff to be able to respond to what they've heard.

2:29:20Maybe, maybe there's some clarity, some accuracy, some corrections, which is fine. That would like

2:29:25those corrections come to us too. Just so we can kind of get a move forward position.

2:29:30Um, is it CAO Baker or CEO, uh, WCAO, clock, Bush? Okay. Colleen, over to you. Thank you. And

2:29:37that'll go to you, Councillor Gibson. Thank you, Mr. Mayor, and to Council for the opportunity

2:29:41and to the delegates for coming out. Um, I think we all share the passion for, uh, for youth sports

2:29:47here in the community. And I do think at the end of the day, we all have the same shared goals in

2:29:52terms of access to facilities. Um, I wanted to provide some clarifying information and maybe

2:29:57some helpful information as you, as you deliberate. Um, so first, just want to give reassurance. Um, so

2:30:04when we talk about the opening date for Southend, staff, uh, we have been assured we will have

2:30:09occupancy by the beginning of September. That's for staff to get in, be commissioning the building.

2:30:13Um, and we do are still on track to be planning a grand opening for in October. What we will do is

2:30:18that we will ensure no one loses a 60 nights time. And so if we are not in a position to be,

2:30:24no one will lose ice time. So as we look to move groups out of the Sleeman Center and into the

2:30:29Southend, if there is a period where we need to leave the groups at Sleeman Center as we transition,

2:30:34because I, I don't want to commit to what day in September or October, we will be moving groups.

2:30:40We will ensure that no groups lose out on ice time when we are moving their block from the

2:30:46Sleeman Center to the Southend. So I just wanted to provide that assurance. Also, and again, this

2:30:51may be news to most people, um, but, uh, we are going to be adding spring ice at Southend. So with

2:30:56a new facility that's a little bit more energy efficient, we are going to be in a position to

2:31:00be adding spring ice in April and May. We're going to pilot it and, uh, see where the demand is. We

2:31:06know the university has been picking up a lot of the spring ice, um, but it is something that we

2:31:09have heard that tryouts in particular are a real, uh, issue for groups. Um, again, which is why we

2:31:15want to focus on getting groups into the Southend and getting them access to that facility, because

2:31:19we'll be adding that spring ice in April and May. Also, just want to clarify, there is no plan to

2:31:24decommission Centenular Exhibition that was, uh, that was sort of, um, mulled about early on in the

2:31:31days when there was a discussion about with Southend coming online, would we be taking one of Centenular

2:31:35Exhibition offline and, and the delegates are correct. They're older facilities and we do have

2:31:39to do repairs on them. Um, but there is no, uh, there, there is no specific plan to decommission

2:31:44Centenular Exhibition. We want to monitor ice usage and our capacity moving forward once we get

2:31:50the Southend open. We have also always been open to public private partnerships and we continue

2:31:55to be as well as all sponsorship opportunities. We are actively seeking sponsors. If anybody's

2:32:00out there, we are actively seeking sponsors for our, our facilities, for our buildings. In fact,

2:32:05when, uh, that we did a public RF, a request for expression of interest process for the Southend,

2:32:12and we proposed three models, a develop finance and operate model, a develop and finance model,

2:32:17or an operate only model. And we put out that RFEOI to see if there was interest at the time. This

2:32:23goes back almost 10 years before council made the decision to proceed with Southend. We did not have

2:32:28any submissions that, uh, that were viable. Um, but we have always been open to those public

2:32:34private partnership opportunities as well as sponsorship. And that includes discussions with

2:32:38the university. We have had discussions over not just ice, new, new facilities, field houses, etc.

2:32:45We do have a capital budget challenge here at the city. And so in our conversations, we continue

2:32:49to be upfront with partners about what our limitations are within our capital budget,

2:32:53but we have always been open to any of those proposals that would come forward. Um, currently,

2:32:59uh, community groups using Sleeman Center average about 30 hours of ice time per week.

2:33:03And when the Southend opens, there will be over 130 hours of new prime time ice. So that's where,

2:33:10uh, we're going to be able to pick up that ice time that's being moved out of the Sleeman Center.

2:33:14Um, I do want to clarify and, and, you know, yes, we've had, we've had lots of Sleeman events,

2:33:19but the list that was provided, that's well over 10 years. Tragically, hip was over 10 years ago.

2:33:24Um, we're, we're talking about one to two events a year in order to actually utilize this under

2:33:28performing asset. We need to do better than that. We need to use the Sleeman Center more than once

2:33:32or twice a year. We will absolutely, um, continue to accommodate ice usage at the Sleeman Center.

2:33:39But what we are proposing to do is we want to move the groups to the Southend to be able to

2:33:44guarantee their dates, to be able to guarantee their bookings. Um, we'll continue to offer bookings

2:33:50and ice time at Sleeman Center to community groups, but on shorter time frame. So not for the six

2:33:54months box, but in shorter time periods, um, we'll continue to accommodate hockey tournaments,

2:33:58for example, at Sleeman Center. Um, bumping may sound easy, but practically speaking, it really

2:34:05becomes difficult both for staff and for the group, because we may not have anywhere to bump

2:34:09that group to if we haven't guaranteed them their blocks at the Southend. And it does mean that we

2:34:15may miss out on opportunities. There are short notice bookings like film shoots that we want to

2:34:19be able to take at the Sleeman Center that are often on short, on, on, on a short turnaround

2:34:25time period. So we need that flexibility. We'll still continue to take those shorter term bookings

2:34:29from our community groups. But what we really want to do is be able to get their block of ice

2:34:34confirmed at the Southend so that they know they have their time slots. Um, we also are going to

2:34:40be doing that allocation yet this spring. We hear the message loud and clear from the groups. They

2:34:45need to have that assurance. That's why this report is before you in March. And I think some of you

2:34:49asked, could we defer this report to later in this spring and I said, no, we really do need this

2:34:54report decided tonight for exactly that reason. We want it. We want to be able to give the groups

2:34:58the assurance of their ice time. Um, and hearing loud and clear as well concerns about equity and

2:35:05ice allocation. Thank you for approving our allocation policy. You did that earlier this evening.

2:35:09That's the mechanism through which we're going to start to look at how we deal with equity

2:35:14within our allocation, not just for ice. That's the other thing I really want to, I really want

2:35:18to emphasize. We're talking a lot about ice tonight, but we have recreation capacity challenges

2:35:24across much more than ice. I absolutely recognize that as a municipality, we cannot meet the full

2:35:30demand for ice use. We rely on the university. There's a private arena in the Southend, um,

2:35:36smaller sized. Um, but we are not in a position to meet the full demand for ice for aquatic

2:35:42facilities, gym space, pickleball, et cetera. We have, as you know, we have pressures on our

2:35:47capital budget. We've deferred lots out of our capital budget. And so absolutely we do still

2:35:52need to look to others to help us meet that need in the community. But in the meantime,

2:35:57what we really want to do is make sure we're maximizing the Sleeman Center,

2:36:01maximizing the usage of that facility, which is similar to other OHL arenas, Kitchener Waterloo

2:36:06Memorial Auditorium, for example, has very similar policies to what we're proposing to put into place

2:36:11and make sure that this spring when we're doing the ice allocation, we accommodate everyone and get

2:36:17their dates locked in in the Southend so they have the assurance that they're looking for.

2:36:20Great. Thank you very much. We appreciate that being all stated out loud like that. We really

2:36:25appreciate that. That can give some certainty and some clarity for the user groups moving forward

2:36:31to, um, so thank you. Uh, sorry, Councillor Gibson, um, do you have a question or can I get the

2:36:38motion that he's put on the floor? Um, I just want to maybe two points of clarity. Um, we heard

2:36:47from our, to staff, we heard from our delegates a willingness to engage in like a displacement

2:36:54policy or a short-term displacement. I've read through our, um, Recreation of Sillies

2:37:01Outlookation Process Report again. I don't see specific wording in that report about a

2:37:06displacement policy. Can you, can you expand on that? Can maybe answer that? Or do you need

2:37:10direction from Council today to, to adopt something like that?

2:37:13No, it's to the mayor. So it isn't our recommendation. Our recommendation is that we

2:37:19re, that we move the groups to the Southend and we guarantee them their blocks of time at the

2:37:24Southend for those sort of six month chunks and that then they book on a case by case basis at

2:37:29the Sleiman Center. We don't recommend leaving their blocks at the Sleiman Center and putting a

2:37:34sort of displacement clause in effect because it's going to very much hamper the efforts of our

2:37:38staff to get bookings for the Sleiman Center. And we're also very concerned that we're going to

2:37:43continually be going to groups and not have ice to, to move them to. So we highly recommend

2:37:49that they move those solid blocks to the Sleiman Center where we can make sure that we're accommodating

2:37:54them. Um, or sorry to the Southend, thank you Ms. Baker, that we move the solid blocks to the

2:37:59Southend where we know we can accommodate them and then we will continue to take those bookings

2:38:03on a case by case sort of more one off at the Sleiman Center. Thank you, Mr. Mayor. So what I'm

2:38:07hearing is there's a, you're essentially telling them that there's guaranteed that you're going to

2:38:12get the blocks of time at the Southend but there's still going to be opportunistic bookings at the

2:38:16Sleiman Center? Absolutely. Okay. And then the, um, maybe for due process, Mr. Mayor, I believe

2:38:23the way the recommendations are written, I'd like them separated if you don't mind before I put them

2:38:27on the floor. And then I believe that if we are to vote against Clause 3, we don't need a motion

2:38:33for anything else other than yes or no to the youth subsidy no longer being a correct.

2:38:38Number three is just a yes or no. Subsidy's gone, we vote no, the subsidy remains. That's right.

2:38:42We don't need direction any more than that. Yes, Mr. Mayor, I didn't actually comment on that

2:38:45because that one is fairly simple. It's a yes or a no. Either we remove the youth subsidy or you

2:38:50retain it. Okay, thank you. Um, I'm, I'm happy to move the motion separated please and I'll save my

2:38:58comments for number three at the end if you don't mind or I can, I'm happy to share my comments

2:39:02before then but, well, let me just get a seconder. Can I have a seconder for what's on there? Okay,

2:39:07I'll go downer. Thank you. Um, and let me just ask right now, is there any further questions before

2:39:16comments other than knowing that these three are being separated? And I know there's a couple of

2:39:22more motions coming after these three. Okay, so we'll get to those in a second but questions only.

2:39:29Alt, please. Thank you, Mayor Guthrie. Three of you to staff. It's a quick one. I appreciate what

2:39:34uh, uh, Deputy CAO Clack Bush had stated but one area that, that has been avoided in which I'm

2:39:42concerned about is the, the economic cost or advantage to downtown Guelph and the accompanying

2:39:47impact on downtown business that's projected if we change the use of the Sleeman Center.

2:39:55Through the mayor to council for all, certainly in conversations with the DGBA

2:39:59and our downtown businesses, we know that when we do large-scale public events, ticketed public

2:40:04events, that there is a significant impact for the downtown businesses and for restaurants. That

2:40:09is one of the ancillary benefits to using Sleeman Center, the way it was really originally intended.

2:40:15Community ICE unfortunately tends to be a smaller number of people and without

2:40:18public who are coming downtown. And so that is one of the reasons why we'd like to see the

2:40:24Sleeman Center used for more public facing events is to draw people into the downtown core

2:40:30and to be that economic generator in the downtown core. And if Mr. Goodrum can add to that, I'd love

2:40:37it and if you can't, if Ms. Clack Bush has said everything, I'm fine with that too. He's good.

2:40:44Ditto I think. Okay. Okay. So before I continue because I see no other questions,

2:40:52unfortunately you're going to get a couple questions from me. So bear with, okay. Sorry,

2:40:57Councillor Chew, you have questions? Go ahead. Through you, Mr. Mayor, DCO,

2:41:04Cap Clack Bush, thank you for indulging me in the call yesterday. You just clarified just the

2:41:09timeline of our facility needs assessments and even just like forecasting out to the next term

2:41:14of council when we can expect staff capacity just given the timeframe of the SEC transition that

2:41:21your team is working on, if we were to undertake that. So to the Mayor, if you're referring to the

2:41:27previous facility needs assessment, the most fulsome facility needs assessment was done in 2009,

2:41:32although as we brought updates related to the South End Community Center forward to council,

2:41:36there were updates. And so in terms of the next term of council, we don't have a formal

2:41:45placeholder to do a fulsome facility needs assessment for our indoor facilities. We're

2:41:49currently doing the outdoor field, Swartzfield strategy. But once the South End is open and

2:41:55we've had time to evaluate need, we would certainly through, I would say our capital budget process

2:41:59becoming back to the next term of council to identify if there is future needs. As I said,

2:42:06we know the demand is there. It really comes down to what is the capacity of the municipality to try

2:42:11to address that versus it being done through the private sector. And so I think in answer to your

2:42:19question, once the South End is open and we have time and we sort of evaluate usage and demand

2:42:24across all, not just ICE, we will certainly be evaluating that and determining sort of next steps.

2:42:31Okay. And just follow up with I see we have our acting DCO as well and our general manager for

2:42:38ECTEV. I noticed within the handling creek are in our in our employment lands, we have

2:42:45that multi land parceling available. Do you think if something like the Cambridge sports

2:42:53complex were to be proposed on those lands, because I know before they were deemed provisionally

2:42:58significant, is that some kind of proposal that would be entertained by us at the city with Luke

2:43:06and their team? Because I think I'll just preface this, like, I think we just need to be able to

2:43:11demonstrate that there's a willingness to kind of entertain these conversations. But I know you

2:43:16do have these conversations with the public just needs to know that there is that. Well, through

2:43:21the mayor to council to all our remaining lands in the handling creek business park are currently

2:43:27up for sale. And we're anticipating proposals by the end of April. So if that does move forward,

2:43:37there's a report anticipated to council on June the second. So if that moves forward, we won't have

2:43:43any lands in the industrial park any longer. Okay. And yeah, that's just more a question for

2:43:51clarity is to open the conversation. But yeah, I guess I'll reserve my comments for later. Thank

2:43:59you. Okay, thank you. Okay, so a couple questions from me. And I'm calling to you a little bit. Okay.

2:44:08So I I'm sitting in in in a position right now where I think I'm I have a difference of opinion

2:44:15on this displacement clause conversation. And I think where where I'm hearing it is that I'm

2:44:25hearing group or groups that are at least open to a conversation around what a displacement clause

2:44:33could look like. You know, what is what is point A and B and C and what what would trigger something

2:44:40if it's a film shoot within a week, can that be put in as a clause, like compared to no.

2:44:48And so I'm kind of sitting I'm sitting in an unaccompanied I feel uncomfortable because I

2:44:52totally get why you're saying no, I really do. But I also feel like the conversation

2:45:00with user groups about the parameters around what would trigger a displacement clause has not ever

2:45:06happened. And I feel like this is like a new this is a new territory we're in right like

2:45:13and thank thank goodness it's new territory because we've got two new ranks coming on thank goodness.

2:45:17But can we not like do can we not try like, I hate these words, but like a pilot program for a year,

2:45:25like we're doing like a one year transition here. Can we not try displacement clauses with with

2:45:32everything like very clearly laid out as to why a group would get displaced. None of us would want

2:45:38to hear. Well, I won't but if it no no one wants to hear, oh, we just got kicked out. It's on Facebook

2:45:44or something we just got kicked out because of well it's in your clause. It's in your clause. So

2:45:50don't come complaining about it right. So if if the parameters around the displacement clause were

2:45:55known and negotiated and good faith upfront. Why can't that work? I that's where I'm struggling. I

2:46:06feel like we should try it for a year. And you still then you still then can book all the events and

2:46:13you can book all the concerts and you can have a film crew come in three days before and you're

2:46:20like sorry your displacement clause says we can kick you out like for any of these types of issues

2:46:26and they have to they have to live with that because they signed their name to what the

2:46:31parameters of the displacement clause were. So I'm struggling with the no versus the can we not

2:46:36see about something maybe working for that? That's that's that's where my headspace is at.

2:46:42So so certainly a few thoughts on that. So first of all to you our experience is when we have

2:46:48previously displaced groups it is very challenging. The organization might say that they're okay with

2:46:52it but individual families it can be very frustrating. We hear lots of the complaints

2:46:57groups. It's very challenging for families with small kids to be displaced to have to find out

2:47:01that they're going to a new location. But I do think the bigger issue is fundamentally why because

2:47:07if we don't move the groups into the south end now and get their blocks of time in the south end

2:47:12a year from now those blocks like we know the demand is there and so we would rather move them

2:47:18from Sleeman Center and get them their guaranteed ice time at south end. So calling me interrupt

2:47:23because I might have I might have pitched this wrong to you. So my apologies let me just interrupt

2:47:28because I think you're going somewhere where I where my headspace wasn't at. I agree with you in

2:47:33the bookings to be blocked to the south end. Full stop no problem okay. Now we also know there's

2:47:41capacity issues where they are always looking for more ice and more blocking of times. Okay so

2:47:46they're moving from Sleeman Center fine to south end fine. Now they want an extra bit of hours

2:47:54to also block. On top of can we not have a conversation with all those user groups

2:48:02with really strict parameters of displacement that would trigger an actual displacement

2:48:09and working with them to make sure that all of their membership is told in advance of those

2:48:14parameters so there isn't any problems of that. So that if it's triggered then it's triggered.

2:48:21I just don't understand why so I just want to make sure you understood I understand the moving of

2:48:25the blocking to the south end. It's the extra now that they could also block but we're saying no

2:48:31and that's where I'm struggling. So thank you for the clarification. So first step is to get

2:48:36everybody moved and accommodate their existing ice time so we make sure they're looked after.

2:48:40Then under the recreation allocation policy that you have just approved we will then offer all of

2:48:45the additional time south end all of our arenas including at the Sleeman Center as it be is available

2:48:52across the board equitably to all of the groups following the parameters that you've just approved

2:48:56and yes we will be offering that ice time that remains at Sleeman Center. What we won't be doing

2:49:01is blocking the six months at a time. It will be shorter it might be two months out at a time

2:49:08but we absolutely will continue and we do now we work with our groups now if the storm has a game

2:49:13the storm has a game tonight it's a Tuesday night that's an unusual night to have a game on

2:49:16I'm guessing we might have had to work with some groups to accommodate it. I don't actually know

2:49:20that for a fact but I'm just guessing. So we absolutely can and have demonstrated that we

2:49:24will work with groups when we do need to bump or or or displace them as you say and that will

2:49:29still absolutely be available at Sleeman Center. We just want to make sure that first and foremost we

2:49:34get everybody's blocks moved and then through an open process available to all of the groups under

2:49:40the new recreational allocation policy we will make ice time available and we will work with groups.

2:49:45Yes you're making me feel a bit better thank you I'm trying no no no I know it's hard thank you

2:49:57that does satisfy I think there's some heads nodding around that so thank you.

2:50:03My last question then is the logistics the process around letting the users know how to book

2:50:13those times at the Sleeman Center. So everything gets shifted to the south then giddy up everything's

2:50:18good now there is x amount of hours and available time over here two three months in advance as you

2:50:24said whatever I have consistently heard that that is an onerous and difficult process to try and figure

2:50:33out how they can book. How is this is there any technology being looked at is there any other

2:50:41processes or logistics so that all user groups have access to be able to try to book the extra

2:50:48available time in and around where the other intent of the Sleeman Center is going to go for

2:50:53events and concerts how will people know and how quickly and easy is it for them to book those times.

2:51:02So I want to take an opportunity to actually not take credit for all of my answers and to give a

2:51:06huge shout of thanks to Ms. Evans our dental manager of culture and Rackin Mr. Giles who is our

2:51:10Sleeman Center manager who are up in the gallery and actually helping me tonight with all of the

2:51:14answers and so it is a it is an absolutely great question and we want to continue to work with

2:51:20our user groups to make it easier so when we go out in the spring and we provide them with their

2:51:24booking information package and they feed us back with the expression of interest that's how we get

2:51:29the information but we are looking to make that easier through online forms so that it is easier

2:51:34for the groups and I will then still say the recreation allocation policy that you have just

2:51:39approved is also what's going to guide this for us and it's great there's a reason why you're

2:51:43considered them both ironically I actually thought it might get more attention than this

2:51:49but I'm really glad that the recreation allocation policy was approved because it's exactly how that's

2:51:53going to guide this process and try to make it easier for groups. Okay okay I thank you everyone

2:52:04for giving me the extra five minutes to flush that out a little bit. I would love to just hear

2:52:11stories of after the booking and blocking is done at the south end of user groups whoever they are

2:52:18saying wow we got our blocking at south end and we also got 45 hours over here too back at the

2:52:28Sleeman Center how awesome is that that's the kind of conversation I want to hear and hopefully

2:52:35that happens okay but however it's doled out that's fine okay okay well and then

2:52:42you know can we can we get feedback from staff in a year's time on how things are working at all

2:52:50like could there be an information report can there be something that comes back to council that says

2:52:56with a one-year booking we've done the following this is how it's worked.

2:53:02Yes I think I'm going to just commit to us on behalf of staff that we can bring an information

2:53:07report back I would think probably at the end of our first ice season so I'm thinking probably

2:53:12spring 2027 given that ice has been our focus but we will certainly want to report back because

2:53:18we haven't talked about aquatics facilities because that hasn't been what but I think there's also

2:53:23very similar conversations about aquatic facilities in particular so we will report back

2:53:28via information report ideally in sort of q2 2027 okay you've really helped thank you so much

2:53:36okay let's get to the motions there's three of them they've been asked to be separated

2:53:42so the first one is that the deputy chief administrative officer of public services

2:53:47or the designate have the authority to negotiate the Sleeman Center rates and fees

2:53:51when revenue can be recovered through the rental profit share or ticket sales

2:53:55does anyone have any questions or comments on that one on that one okay councillor Gibson.

2:54:01Yeah thank you I'm just reading the the recommendation I heard come back to a conversation I think

2:54:06Ms. Clackbush you and I had back in 2014 when I first ran for council it was all about how can

2:54:11we maximize the Sleeman Center and I think at the time you said well the riverrun center is

2:54:16operated differently we're allowed to charge different ticket sales and we're allowed to

2:54:19work within a budget whereas the Sleeman Center operates much differently I'm grateful and I just

2:54:25wanted to give full credit to moving the Sleeman Center in this direction I may not agree with you

2:54:30on the youth subsidy in a minute but I'm going to give you crudos now it's terrific to see the

2:54:34Sleeman Center being run more like a business being able to take some risks hit and miss on

2:54:38some concerts and then hit really well on other concerts that's exactly how the riverrun center

2:54:43operates so I'm more than happy to support clause one that's for me thank you okay anything more on

2:54:51clause one no okay I'm going to call the vote on clause one is there anyone against no one that's

2:55:02unanimous thank you on the second one which is the Sleeman Center capital reserve fund ticket

2:55:07service charge increased from between two and three dollars starting September 1st

2:55:122026 any questions or comments just on that no okay I'll call the vote then is sorry there's

2:55:21something that just popped up on the middle of the screen there it's gone now do you see that no

2:55:28okay I'm going to call the vote is anyone against that okay that's unanimous as well

2:55:34and so now we're at the youth facility discount will no longer be applicable for rentals at the

2:55:40Sleeman Center effective September 1st 2026 any questions or comments on that I mean this is a

2:55:48yes or no I'll go to air Councillor Caton first please and then Gibson thank you so just like

2:55:57the parents would like to plan months ahead so what our staff and I know that the youth discount

2:56:05is separate from the scheduling but we as a council had made changes to our downtown design away from

2:56:15installing a playground immediately and implementing a public space use bylaw that disallows

2:56:21tempting in the name of downtown being an economic driver the proposed policy doesn't disallow youth

2:56:27sports it just refocuses our facility in the downtown through an economic lens

2:56:33and I feel that the concerns being addressed with our with bringing on the two new ranks

2:56:39at the same time that the youth subsidy is removed that it nullifies those concerns I've heard that

2:56:45other municipalities don't offer youth discounts the university doesn't offer it and the commercial

2:56:50ranks do not the youth groups can still book at Sleeman's and they'll have two more rinks in an area

2:56:56that even have free parking I think that this is ultimately going to be a cost savings for the

2:57:01families for the groups who are booking in the south end I understand the equity conversation

2:57:07I'm very proud of the work that council and staff have done towards that goal I think that the

2:57:12allocation policy that we've just passed is going to address that need so I'm not I'm going to be

2:57:18supporting the removal of the youth subsidy for the Sleeman Center okay thank you for your

2:57:28for your comments I saw Gibson I saw Boot that Koran and I saw Boussatil okay go ahead Gibson

2:57:36thank you through you mr. mayor just to summarize my thoughts on this sounds like the user groups

2:57:43are all going to have their time secured to the south end to the user groups that are here please

2:57:46get to know our facility allocation policy that we just published that'll be that'll be your

2:57:50opportunity to grab times at the Sleeman Center once all your times are moved down to the south end

2:57:54so there'll be a block of time opening up at that facility on the youth subsidy I've looked at the

2:58:02report it's clear to me staff have recognized that there's about a 91 thousand dollar loss of revenue

2:58:10to the city every year when we are providing that subsidy just to put that into context that sounds

2:58:16like a lot of money and I'm all for saving money that being said I don't think in the grand scheme

2:58:22of things access to sports it's a trivial cost when it comes to allowing kids access to sports

2:58:29especially youth I know a little bit about the Sleeman Center and how it operates I know a little

2:58:34bit about how the storm operate and a good a good playoff run every year more than covers that

2:58:40subsidy for our youth in terms of revenues through the Sleeman Center so I'm not obliged to support

2:58:45that my only my other piece of mind that is going through the back of my mind right now is I'm looking

2:58:52ahead 20 minutes in our schedule I'm looking at a vote to remove youth discounts youth subsidies

2:59:00proceeding a vote to visit revisit council's composition for next year in re-enumeration

2:59:07that's not sitting well with me Mr. Mayor so I will not be voting to reduce youth subsidies

2:59:12um especially in the shadow of our next agenda item tonight thank you okay thank you for your

2:59:18comments uh Karan and then Boussatel please and thank you Mr. Mayor I'm actually have two minds on

2:59:23this one um weighing the different options and um asking a question of staff I often hear the Sleeman

2:59:31Center being referred to as a premium facility does it cost more to operate for youth sports uh the

2:59:37Sleeman Center compared to one of our other uh ranks at the west or the um Victoria Road facility

2:59:46through the mayor just to clarify does it from an operating point of view does it cost more

2:59:51I believe that is the case because of staffing yes and so it is a larger facility and so it requires

2:59:56more staff um so from that perspective it is a premier facility in terms of the actual ice itself

3:00:02and the size of the facility but also just in terms of our operating costs it does cost more

3:00:06and when groups are booking there is there per hour cost higher is the same per hour cost as it is

3:00:12at other facilities so the subsidy is a is a percentage and I'm just wondering where the actual

3:00:17ice time cost is is higher I'm phoning a friend I'm seeing signals they're in there yeah there is a

3:00:27differential in the cost at the Sleeman Center um Ms. Evans is saying it's about $35 an hour different

3:00:32in the cost to use okay so the groups that are booking there are are paying more than they would

3:00:38at other facilities already okay thanks uh Councillor Pucitil and then Chu is going to wrap it up

3:00:52thank you I'm not going to I'm going to ditto what Councillor Caton said um and for me my decision is

3:00:58really aimed at creating an unencumbered Sleeman Center I want that revenue there I am very well

3:01:04aware of other kinds of subsidies that are available whether it's the arts or sports for youth and

3:01:10families to become engaged um and so sorry uh and and for me uh the groups will have access to the

3:01:19Sleeman Center but without the subsidy so I will be requesting that or or supporting the removal of

3:01:25the subsidy okay thank you and uh to Chu and then I'll call to them yeah through you Mr. Mayor thank

3:01:33you for this wholesome discussion and I realized half of the conversations were really about the

3:01:39booking policy so just on that piece I hope that we can establish clear lens of communications with

3:01:45our user group organizations and families and groups that come in soliciting feedback from

3:01:52customer service um yeah I'll be supporting the youth subsidy just because this is very much a

3:01:58transition period that we're in and I'm representing a community where we've been waiting for over 20

3:02:0430 years for a community center so I'm very happy that that work is being done I don't want to take

3:02:10away from that work but just on the whole I think we do need to engage in broader conversation then

3:02:15take a stronger leadership role in this long-term planning of how do we utilize uh some of the

3:02:23limited lands that we do have to scope out P3s or any other operating model uh operating models and

3:02:29proponent driven endeavors and I just want to let everyone know that's watching that the city is

3:02:35open we have a great active team that's headed by our our general manager that's sitting right there

3:02:42James Goodrum so I hope if there's any proponents out there that's willing to entertain any

3:02:48possibilities you come talk to Mr. James um but yes on the youth subsidy we're in a transition

3:02:55period so I feel like it's quite appropriate and it actually doesn't take away from much of that

3:03:011.6 million dollar shortfall that we have so I think based on my representation of the south end

3:03:09and just the number of user groups that are in the south end asking for this to be in place I do

3:03:17feel like there's a duty for me to keep this in place so I want to make that very transparent

3:03:21and clear for those that are watching today okay thanks okay thank you okay so I'll call the vote so

3:03:28if you vote um uh if you vote against this it means that the youth subsidy would if that's the

3:03:36world council means the youth subsidy would stay okay and it would be applicable okay I think everyone

3:03:41knows where I'm at I want it to stay so um I'll I'll be voting that way okay so all those against

3:03:49number three please raise your hand and for the clerks I will yell the names for you uh so uh Richardson

3:03:57and Billings and Guthrie and Clawson and Chu and Gawler and Gibson and Downer and Hauser and

3:04:05Koran okay so that pass that it fails sorry the motion fails which means the subsidy stays

3:04:14okay so um thank you um now I have a couple other motions that have been

3:04:24well are being looked to be tabled um and uh so we'll go with uh I think I I had brought one for

3:04:33would you mind just doing the one for me so Councillor Goller and Councillor Hauser

3:04:38have agreed to move in second one um on my behalf which I think we'll pull up up on the screen

3:04:46and it's just talking about subsidy and it's looking for a memo uh to come at the next budget

3:04:52cycle about looking to expand a youth subsidy to the non-sports facilities for those kids that are

3:04:59in deculterant arts and music and and such like at the is there a possibility at the river run center

3:05:05could they do that um uh at the museum as an example and so uh it's it's basically just for

3:05:12the next term of council at the budget time they will receive a memo that gives some of these details

3:05:18so they're better informed during that budget cycle to determine whether or not there's any

3:05:22validity to it and um for me it is an equity thing from from kids that are into sports I think

3:05:28there's lots of kids that are are not into sports and this might be something that can um can really

3:05:35spur on even maybe even some more use of some of those facilities too so uh with that I've kind

3:05:40of explained it as well as I can I'll leave it open for any of my colleagues to ask any questions

3:05:45or if it's pretty straightforward I can I can look to call the vote. Yeah minor minor edit it said

3:05:52at river run and Guelph museums and that is very prescriptive I wonder if we could say such as but

3:05:58not in you know but not limited to there may be other facilities so if we could just go such as

3:06:04yeah I think that was the intent so I appreciate it. I think that was the intent of the mover

3:06:09I'm seeing thumbs up thanks. Yeah so we'll just um have that as an actual amendment and seconded by

3:06:15Councillor Allt are you okay with that Councillor Allt? Uh sure just one second I just want to make

3:06:20sure the clerks have captured that um such as language as an example of those two facilities

3:06:27are you okay with that? We'll just display it on screen yeah pardon me through you Mr. Mayor

3:06:31to confirm the mover is comfortable but not limited to is that okay? Is it hits you at the

3:06:39same intent Councillor Cronk? Yeah okay and still okay for second Councillor Allt? All right do I

3:06:46need to actually go to you on a question on this on the amendment? Okay good I'm going to call the

3:06:52the vote please on the amendment okay is anyone against? No okay that's that's great thank you so

3:06:59the amendment passes question on the motion now thank you Mayor Guthrie the overall intent of the

3:07:05motion I think is quite appropriate and it was part of what I struggled with in my decisions on

3:07:10the last three motions through you two staff what I don't see in there is any identification

3:07:17of profit versus non-profit versus not-for-profit or charitable organizations will staff take that

3:07:25into consideration if a report is to come back to us. Through the Mayor to Councillor Allt yes the

3:07:31current fee subsidy is uh has very narrow uh it has uh requirements as to how many youth as in

3:07:37what percentage of the youth participating I think it's 80 percent of the youth have to be from wealth

3:07:41there is also a requirement related to not-for-profit and charitable status so we will make sure that

3:07:45that's clear when we report back. Lovely thank you. With that mind if I call the vote everybody?

3:07:52Great I'll call it now is anyone against this this motion as amended?

3:07:59Nobody that's unanimous thank you council there's a second motion now which is a and it's our last

3:08:06one Councillor Goller and Caron I'm sorry is that right? I believe I believe so if uh if

3:08:15Councillor LaGrund is still interested in supporting that one are you okay and and if I could speak to

3:08:20it well so that hold on I need to find a seconder. Well if I thought you were yeah are you okay to

3:08:27second it okay good it's on the floor perfect thank you worship I'll just read it out uh

3:08:31that staff report back through the 2027 confirmation budget process and the financial impact of

3:08:36implementing recommendations um and I give a number of recommendations there from the parks

3:08:41and recreation master plan to implement low barrier recreation access to homeless youth low-income

3:08:46residents newcomers and other underserved groups through neighborhood-based programming

3:08:51equipment lending triad activities and drop-in opportunities and just for everyone's clarification

3:08:57those those particular recommendations were approved by council in the Gualf and the park

3:09:06and recreational master plan but they were not funded they they include increasing city provision

3:09:11of park neighborhood-based recreation programming including equipment lending to support participation

3:09:16and year round access adopt service of delivery to increase access to unsupportive opportunities

3:09:23to community recreation and health focused programming incorporate recreation sampling

3:09:28in their recreation service delivery model with low cost low commitment triad activities

3:09:34introduce community members to city recreation programs investigate free triad activities as

3:09:40part of welcome to wealth program and increase provision to drop in recreation programming

3:09:45to meet demand for spontaneous recreation options and activities effectively during the earlier

3:09:50part of this evening we were talking about subsidies for groups that that are already

3:09:56able to pay for activities this would be exploring some sort of city funding for groups that are not

3:10:03already paying for recreation activities underserved groups so that that is my my intention

3:10:11and and I would hope that through to stop this might come at the same time as the previous motion

3:10:16if if approved so that it would be part of the same report on to reduce the workload

3:10:23through the mayor to council caller and council yes our intention will be to bring this back by

3:10:27information report well enough in advance of the budget process that the next term of council

3:10:31has the information available to them thank you uh kate in has a question in her comment and then

3:10:39boost it till and then i'll call the vote okay kate in please thanks um to you to staff so would

3:10:45that report include existing programs that are already out there like the fair program

3:10:51and anything else that we have in terms of uh what's existing in our social services budget

3:10:58through the mayor to council kate and i think we can certainly include a high level summary of

3:11:02what existing programs exist as to the social services budget we would need to look to our

3:11:06colleagues at the council to at the county to see what they could provide but certainly it's easy

3:11:10for us to insert a paragraph or two about the existing programs that exist here at the city of

3:11:16gulf great thank you so much thank you councillor kate and asked my first question in addition i'm

3:11:25i'm aware that the city provides community benefit agreements to a number of organization

3:11:30that already provide uh equipment free recreation and so on and and you know i even think of the

3:11:37children's foundation that the city of gulf provides funding to to provide subsidies to access programs

3:11:44so you know yeah so my so my question is you know the lens of this and the intention of the mover

3:11:51is i don't want the city to get back into the business of of doing this when there are community

3:11:56groups that are doing this so i can can you respond to that because i'm feeling very uncomfortable

3:12:02about this um so through the mayor you yes so you receive um and i don't want to commit to the timing

3:12:09of uh when miss sales a group provides these reports but you do receive information reports

3:12:14every year on the cba's so the community benefit agreements and what um the the what has been

3:12:20provided to the community through those as well as through our community grant program and so i

3:12:24think those are going to be two really important companion pieces as you consider this um because

3:12:30those two were existing reports that you receive every year anyways um are a great way to kind of

3:12:35evaluate that existing funding that the city is already providing to third party organizations who

3:12:40then in turn are flow flowing that money out into the community thank you thank you yeah yeah it's a

3:12:50good point so yeah thank you very much okay uh so i will just call the vote then on on this then is

3:12:58anyone against uh that's unanimous as well and i think that brings us to the end of this of this

3:13:06discussion um thank goodness my band from 10 years ago is looking for an anniversary show

3:13:14so the sleam and center wants to to book us for our 10th anniversary uh let let me know i'll give

3:13:20you a good deal we're open to negotiation okay i won't i won't i won't kick out any ice users

3:13:26though for sure all right thank you um council and everybody in the chambers and everyone uh we're

3:13:34going to take a quick break we've been sitting for a while here um we are going to come back at um

3:13:41at 10 to so we're going to take a 20 minute 22 minute break um at 10 to nine we will reconvene

3:13:50okay and we got just a couple items yep just a couple items and we'll be we'll be done thank you

3:37:08can we just ask uh our friends online virtually to put their cameras on for us please okay i will

3:37:23see here one minute to call the meeting to order they were coming you know it's going to happen as

3:37:39soon as you okay i'm going to call the meeting to order here we go we only got two more items to get